Spurs trade ideas

[RC_Drunkford]

That's definitely not "Just as good". This has "We have X at home" energy.

what an insightful rebuttal :lol

[Chinook]

what an insightful rebuttal :lol

No, they can just be traded for each other using regular matching rules. We've talked about this.

[Chinook]

what an insightful rebuttal :lol

I mean, it's obviously not just as good.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

if you trade O'Neal into cap space, yes. But there is no cap space once you trade Vassell and Barnes for KD

No cap space is needed.

When teams over the cap, like the Spurs project to be, trade players on relatively small contracts (below $6.5 mil) during the offseason they can receive back a salary of 200% +250K - this is done for simplifying trades and of course it's only for teams under the aprons. This is why Malaki, making a little below 5 mil for O'Neale making 10.1 mil juuuust about works.

[Chinook]

No cap space is needed.

When teams over the cap, like the Spurs project to be, trade players on relatively small contracts (below $6.5 mil) during the offseason they can receive back a salary of 200% +250K - this is done for simplifying trades and of course it's only for teams under the aprons. This is why Malaki, making a little below 5 mil for O'Neale making 10.1 mil juuuust about works.

It works by about $50k.

Branham at $4,962,033 can match $10,174,066. Royce makes $10,125,000

[picnroll]

A team that is on the cusp, at least in the Eastern Conference, and needs a PG is Orlando. What could the Spurs realistically get from Orlando for Fox and maybe pick 14.

[benefactor]

A team that is on the cusp, at least in the Eastern Conference, and needs a PG is Orlando. What could the Spurs realistically get from Orlando for Fox and maybe pick 14.
Stop trying to trade Fox. He's not going anywhere.

[exstatic]

Likewise I'm not that against bringing him in. But I do think it would create more of a crunch around what I perceive as a hard cap than is being let on. Because I don't think Durant is going to extend for a discount (I could be wrong), nor do I even necessarily think he should. Durant for one year? Sure. I don't think that makes us a contender, but maybe we get a nice year of mentorship. Maybe Durant does extend for cheap (who knows). But I feel trading for Durant and extending him for what I think he would command would be a mistake.

Likewise, I actually want us to just pick someone at 14. Shake the trees around the low-key trades that Brian Wright likes to do (which I posted about in this very thread). Fill out the roster that way. IMO, that's still a playoff (not play-in) team. Try to do that with one of Vassell or Keldon and our zillion SRPs if you can. We already made a major trade AND got gifted a #2 draft pick. Keep going with this... it's working out rather well, actually.

And yes... actually coach the team please.

You make it part of the trade. If he doesn’t do an extend and trade for 2/$50M, you move on.

[picnroll]

Stop trying to trade Fox. He's not going anywhere.

Last I checked I’m not the Spurs GM, I’m just asking a hypothetical.

[scott]

You make it part of the trade. If he doesn’t do an extend and trade for 2/$50M, you move on.

Perfect. Doing so now.

[RC_Drunkford]

I mean, it's obviously not just as good.

maybe not in 26/27 and definitely not by a wide margin. But in 28/29 it would be a completely different story.

[spurraider21]

OKC also didn’t give up assets bringing in a 37 year old SuperMax guy.

[scott]

Not so much a trade idea... more like a no-trade idea... but...

I'm sure Utah has called up Brian Wright asking about #2.

I hope Brian responded by forcing Ainge and Zanik to continually up the ante and throw on an increasing number of assets, and then eventually just say "nah"

Basically... I hope Brian is using this opportunity to treat Danny Ainge the way Danny Ainge tries to treat everyone else.

[cd021]

Two trade ideas:


Spurs Get:

Kevin Durant

Suns Get:

Harrison Barnes*
Devin Vassell
Malaki Branham
14th pick
2029 first

*swapped out Keldon Johnson for Barnes because Barnes is a big expiring contract.

Trade 2:

Spurs Get:

Cam Johnson
26th or 27th pick

Nets Get:

Keldon Johnson
14th pick


I get that KD has more downside than Giannis but i'd be tempted to do this deal. Vassell and KJ are expendable, the 14th pick technically is too with the Spurs getting the second pick, Branham is basically just a nice expiring contract while the 2029 first is the only real sticking point. Even so the upside for the next three years would probably be worth it for a Fox, Castle, Champ/Harper, KD, Wemby starting lineup.

A much smaller deal would be to swap Keldon Johnson and 14 for Cam Johnson and 26 or 27. That might be underselling on Cam Johnson, though it would depend on how the Nets feel about Keldon who is four years younger and on a good contract for the next two years. I might even still do it for Keldon Johnson and 14 for Cam Johnson and the 36th pick.

If they're interested, the Spurs would get a sharp shooter would make this roster make a lot more sense. Fox, Castle, Vassell, Johnson, Wemby as the starting five. Harper, Champ, Barnes, Sochan, and a backup five (Brook Lopez?) would be the bench. Spurs suddenly would have more shooting.

[DPG21920]

Im not trading Keldon + 14 for Cam and 26. Cam for Keldon is fair on its own IMO and Cam isn’t so much better that I’d drop 12 spots back IMO.

Cam + 19? Ok

[baseline bum]

Likewise I'm not that against bringing him in. But I do think it would create more of a crunch around what I perceive as a hard cap than is being let on. Because I don't think Durant is going to extend for a discount (I could be wrong), nor do I even necessarily think he should. Durant for one year? Sure. I don't think that makes us a contender, but maybe we get a nice year of mentorship. Maybe Durant does extend for cheap (who knows). But I feel trading for Durant and extending him for what I think he would command would be a mistake.

Likewise, I actually want us to just pick someone at 14. Shake the trees around the low-key trades that Brian Wright likes to do (which I posted about in this very thread). Fill out the roster that way. IMO, that's still a playoff (not play-in) team. Try to do that with one of Vassell or Keldon and our zillion SRPs if you can. We already made a major trade AND got gifted a #2 draft pick. Keep going with this... it's working out rather well, actually.

And yes... actually coach the team please.

Didn't you post a month or so ago that Zach Lowe was hearing KD would take a paycut on the extension to play on a contender? Or am I remembering wrong and it was someone else? I'm all for adding Durant if he's cheap asset wise (say #14, Vassell, Branham, and Wesley) and if he's willing to sign a two year $60 million extension to basically replace Vassell's contract in Years #2 and #3. With those two preconditions met I'd fucking love KD here. If KD wants to be paid in full though I'd pass not only because of luxury tax concerns in Year #3 in the first year of Victor's supermax but also because I question if he'll be a max player in a year. I get he should ask for every penny he should get but this isn't a Kobe situation where the Lakers paid him full value because of how much he meant to the franchise even when he was nowhere close to a max player.

[cd021]

Im not trading Keldon + 14 for Cam and 26. Cam for Keldon is fair on its own IMO and Cam isn’t so much better that I’d drop 12 spots back IMO.

Cam + 19? Ok

I mean Cam Johnson is literally one of the best high-volume shooters in the NBA and averaged nearly 19 points per game last season. I think it's hard to say that he isn't better than KJ, or at least more valuable. I think trading back 12 spots is a hell of a lot better than having to trade first for Cam Johnson.

He'd also fit the Spurs a lot better than KJ does.

[LeBowen]

I mean Cam Johnson is literally one of the best high-volume shooters in the NBA and averaged nearly 19 points per game last season. I think it's hard to say that he isn't better than KJ, or at least more valuable. I think trading back 12 spots is a hell of a lot better than having to trade first for Cam Johnson.

He'd also fit the Spurs a lot better than KJ does.

Tank commander statlines are irrelevant, Keldon averaged 22ppg and took us to the promised Wemby lottery land.
Cam is a great shooter, but his peak on a good roster is 13ppg.

[cd021]

Didn't you post a month or so ago that Zach Lowe was hearing KD would take a paycut on the extension to play on a contender? Or am I remembering wrong and it was someone else? I'm all for adding Durant if he's cheap asset wise (say #14, Vassell, Branham, and Wesley) and if he's willing to sign a two year $60 million extension to basically replace Vassell's contract in Years #2 and #3. With those two preconditions met I'd fucking love KD here. If KD wants to be paid in full though I'd pass not only because of luxury tax concerns in Year #3 in the first year of Victor's supermax but also because I question if he'll be a max player in a year. I get he should ask for every penny he should get but this isn't a Kobe situation where the Lakers paid him full value because of how much he meant to the franchise even when he was nowhere close to a max player.

If the Spurs trade for KD, they'd need to offset his salary as much as possible to have full access to the MLE. Vassell, Barnes, and Branham gets the Spurs within $5 million if his salary. On Dunc'd On they mentioned his max extension is 2-years, $124 million ($62 million a season). If he were to take something like a 2-year extension for around $114 million ($57 million a season) that would be fine considering that they Spurs would already be paying Vassell and KJ $44.5 million in the first year of KD's extension. He'd only be $11 million more than them.

He'd be under contract for the next three seasons and would be a free agent again at 39, ending before Castle or Harper's extensions would kick in. Looking at KD's shooting numbers, it's shocking how good they were. He shot 53.1% on mid-rangers and 38% on 6.0 threes per game. I don't think he'd fall off a cliff in the next three years, he might just be that good of a scorer that he could still cook in his late 30s. The Spurs would have to pay Wemby, Fox, and KD, like $170 for a year before KD's deal expires. At that point, it would probably be time to trade Fox and move forward with Castle, Harper and Wemby.

[DPG21920]

I mean Cam Johnson is literally one of the best high-volume shooters in the NBA and averaged nearly 19 points per game last season. I think it's hard to say that he isn't better than KJ, or at least more valuable. I think trading back 12 spots is a hell of a lot better than having to trade first for Cam Johnson.

He'd also fit the Spurs a lot better than KJ does.

You put Keldon on that BKY team and Keldon averages 19-22 points easy

[cd021]

I'd argue that he could be more efficient playing with better teammates than some bums. Him starting at the four, launching 7 threes a game shooting around 40% from deep is a valuable player to have, especially on a team with little spacing.

[cd021]

Doesn't change the fact that he isn't nearly the shooter that Cam Johnson is. KJ's lack of consistency as a shooter limits his ceiling. Cam Johnson starting at the four playing alongside two slashers and a 7'4 big man drawing all the attention is just a better fit.

[DPG21920]

Doesn't change the fact that he isn't nearly the shooter that Cam Johnson is. KJ's lack of consistency as a shooter limits his ceiling. Cam Johnson starting at the four playing alongside two slashers and a 7'4 big man drawing all the attention is just a better fit.

To some degree for sure - it’s about value. I dont value Cam enough personally to move back 12 spots in this draft for that fit.

[CGD]

Two trade ideas:


Spurs Get:

Kevin Durant

Suns Get:

Keldon Johnson
Devin Vassell
Malaki Branham
14th pick
2029 first


Trade 2:

Spurs Get:

Cam Johnson
26th or 27th pick

Nets Get:

Keldon Johnson
14th pick


I get that KD has more downside than Giannis but i'd be tempted to do this deal. Vassell and KJ are expendable, the 14th pick technically is too with the Spurs getting the second pick, Branham is basically just a nice expiring contract while the 2029 first is the only real sticking point. Even so the upside for the next three years would probably be worth it for a Fox, Castle, Champ/Harper, KD, Wemby starting lineup.

A much smaller deal would be to swap Keldon Johnson and 14 for Cam Johnson and 26 or 27. That might be underselling on Cam Johnson, though it would depend on how the Nets feel about Keldon who is four years younger and on a good contract for the next two years. I might even still do it for Keldon Johnson and 14 for Cam Johnson and the 36th pick.

If they're interested, the Spurs would get a sharp shooter would make this roster make a lot more sense. Fox, Castle, Vassell, Johnson, Wemby as the starting five. Harper, Champ, Barnes, Sochan, and a backup five (Brook Lopez?) would be the bench. Spurs suddenly would have more shooting.

You overvalue Durant’s market severely

[cd021]

To some degree for sure - it’s about value. I dont value Cam enough personally to move back 12 spots in this draft for that fit.

I think with how top heavy this draft is and how the bottom really falls out, I think most of the interesting prospects will be gone by 14. Essengue, and Carter probably will. Sorber, Coward, and Fleming might be. They'd be solid long-term pieces but i'd be open to making a move for Johnson considering just how awful the Spurs' spacing will be without making a major move. Having open driving lanes is key to unlocking Castle and Harper's full potential and making the most of Fox.

[cd021]

You overvalue Durant’s market severely

I could see removing the 2029 first and swapping out KJ for Barnes because he's on an expiring but the framework is what would be required to match salaries.

[DPG21920]

I think with how top heavy this draft is and how the bottom really falls out, I think most of the interesting prospects will be gone by 14. Essengue, and Carter probably will. Sorber, Coward, and Fleming might be. They'd be solid long-term pieces but i'd be open to making a move for Johnson considering just how awful the Spurs' spacing will be without making a major move. Having open driving lanes is key to unlocking Castle and Harper's full potential and making the most of Fox.

And you have Barnes here as well that can do a lot of what Cam does. Now, if Barnes could be traded for a first or something to make sure Cam has his 32+MPG then ok I can see sort of shuffling around. But to me it makes more sense to trade Barnes for Cam

[CGD]

I could see removing the 2029 first and swapping out KJ for Barnes because he's on an expiring but the framework is what would be required to match salaries.

Keldon + Vassell alone is sufficient and works on the salaries. Im not considering adding more until there is a trade — from a team KD will agree to go too — that tops it.

[mo7888]

Two trade ideas:


Spurs Get:

Kevin Durant

Suns Get:

Harrison Barnes*
Devin Vassell
Malaki Branham
14th pick
2029 first

*swapped out Keldon Johnson for Barnes because Barnes is a big expiring contract.

Trade 2:

Spurs Get:

Cam Johnson
26th or 27th pick

Nets Get:

Keldon Johnson
14th pick


I get that KD has more downside than Giannis but i'd be tempted to do this deal. Vassell and KJ are expendable, the 14th pick technically is too with the Spurs getting the second pick, Branham is basically just a nice expiring contract while the 2029 first is the only real sticking point. Even so the upside for the next three years would probably be worth it for a Fox, Castle, Champ/Harper, KD, Wemby starting lineup.

A much smaller deal would be to swap Keldon Johnson and 14 for Cam Johnson and 26 or 27. That might be underselling on Cam Johnson, though it would depend on how the Nets feel about Keldon who is four years younger and on a good contract for the next two years. I might even still do it for Keldon Johnson and 14 for Cam Johnson and the 36th pick.

If they're interested, the Spurs would get a sharp shooter would make this roster make a lot more sense. Fox, Castle, Vassell, Johnson, Wemby as the starting five. Harper, Champ, Barnes, Sochan, and a backup five (Brook Lopez?) would be the bench. Spurs suddenly would have more shooting.

That too much for KD. I'd do ot if we kept 2029 though. On the 2nd I think it'd have to be either 19 or 26 + 27 coming our way.

[baseline bum]

If the Spurs trade for KD, they'd need to offset his salary as much as possible to have full access to the MLE. Vassell, Barnes, and Branham gets the Spurs within $5 million if his salary. On Dunc'd On they mentioned his max extension is 2-years, $124 million ($62 million a season). If he were to take something like a 2-year extension for around $114 million ($57 million a season) that would be fine considering that they Spurs would already be paying Vassell and KJ $44.5 million in the first year of KD's extension. He'd only be $11 million more than them.

He'd be under contract for the next three seasons and would be a free agent again at 39, ending before Castle or Harper's extensions would kick in. Looking at KD's shooting numbers, it's shocking how good they were. He shot 53.1% on mid-rangers and 38% on 6.0 threes per game. I don't think he'd fall off a cliff in the next three years, he might just be that good of a scorer that he could still cook in his late 30s. The Spurs would have to pay Wemby, Fox, and KD, like $170 for a year before KD's deal expires. At that point, it would probably be time to trade Fox and move forward with Castle, Harper and Wemby.

The problem isn't the first year of KD's extension: it's the second since that's the year Victor's supermax would kick in. So in 2027-28 it would look like

Durant: $64.3 million
Wemby: $56.1 million
Fox: $55.1 million
Harper: $13.6 million
Castle: $12.7 million

So that's $201.8 million between just those five. Cap is $187.1 million, tax is $227.4 million, first apron $237.1 million, second apron $251.4 million. Assuming the Spurs want to stay below the first apron we're talking $35 million to fill out the other ten roster spots. So Sochan is gone, Keldon is gone, no MLE signings any year, you trade away either the 2026 or the ATL 2027, and you fill the roster with mostly minimum scrubs. KD at full price kills the team's 2027-28 payroll unless the owners are willing to spend well into the first apron and maybe even the second. Not holding my breath on that.

Whereas no Keldon in 27-28 and Vassell is making $24.7 million in 27-28 if the Spurs don't trade for Durant. It's a nearly $40 million difference in payroll paying Durant max. That $40 million can instead go to three picks and now you're filling 6 slots with $35 million while having theoretically a good nine man rotation already in place.

[scott]

Didn't you post a month or so ago that Zach Lowe was hearing KD would take a paycut on the extension to play on a contender? Or am I remembering wrong and it was someone else? I'm all for adding Durant if he's cheap asset wise (say #14, Vassell, Branham, and Wesley) and if he's willing to sign a two year $60 million extension to basically replace Vassell's contract in Years #2 and #3. With those two preconditions met I'd fucking love KD here. If KD wants to be paid in full though I'd pass not only because of luxury tax concerns in Year #3 in the first year of Victor's supermax but also because I question if he'll be a max player in a year. I get he should ask for every penny he should get but this isn't a Kobe situation where the Lakers paid him full value because of how much he meant to the franchise even when he was nowhere close to a max player.

Lowe did say that, but it was definitely speculation. If KD is willing to do that, it changes the calculus... but just my opinion but I don't see it.

Here's my rationale on trying to estimate what KD's next deal will be:



KD's contemporaries are LeBron and Steph, both guys similarly up there in years, both all of these guys are still performing at high levels... all of them are on SuperMax deals.
Jimmy Butler is almost exactly 1 year younger than, and isn't on KD's level... and the Warriors just gave him a 2-year 35% max
Harden (also almost 1 full year younger than KD, performing at a high level, but I don't think quite the same level as KD) is the example of a guy is this "stature" who did take a paycut, doing a 1+1 at 24% of the cap. If KD did that, it would be a 2/84 deal... still significantly more than the 2/60 thrown out there. IMO, this is probably around the floor for KD's next deal.


That's just my opinion... of course I could be wrong (but I won't be... because I'm actually KD's alt).

[scott]

Even as a KD skeptic, here is my KD acquisition scenario that wouldn't give me a frowny face:

Trade #1:

https://i.imgur.com/8StL3op.png



Trade #2:

https://i.imgur.com/T8rPUd8.png



Draft:

Dylan Harper @ #2
Cedric Coward @ #19
Drake Powell @ #38

Free Agency:

Clint Capela signs for 2/10.5 (BAE)
Jake Laravia signs 4/47 (MLE)
Mamu resigns for vet minimum
Lonnie Walker signs for vet minimum
KD extends for 2/86.4
Fox extends for the max

Cap Sheet

https://i.imgur.com/NfpjvHd.png

Depth Chart:

PG: Fox/Harper/Wesley
SG: Castle/Walker/Powell
SF: LaRavia/Champ/Coward
PF: Durant/Barnes/Wade
C: Wembanyama/Capela/Mamu

Last Thoughts:


I don't like this SG depth at all, but I'm not expecting these guys to need to play much. Walker is your spot minutes guy, Powell spends a lot of time in the G-League
I don't really like Capela, but he's a guy I think we could get for the BAE. You can pick your favorite backup C who will take the BAE and insert them here. I'd love Adams of course but I think he might be more expensive
I treat the tax line as a hard cap, so we don't use all the MLE but I just fit under the tax
I am aware that Coward and Powell stock has risen to make this overly optimistic... but this is my fantasy scenario and I get to bend the rules as I wish!

[spurraider21]

1929327612779782544

[PhantomDashCam]

Just hypothesising on a potential trade for #2 (Not advocating btw. Just say SA don't see Harper as "Spursy" for one reason or another...) Would the Spurs/Nets/Hornets consider this?

3 Team - SAS - BKN - CHA

SAS Receives: Pick #4, Mark Williams, Josh Green and Tidjuane Salaun from Charlotte

Brooklyn Receives: Pick #2, Devin Vassell from SAS

Charlotte Receives: Cameron Johnson, Pick #8, Pick #26, Pick #27 from Brooklyn - Malaki Branham and pick #14 from SAS

Why they'd do it?

Spurs use pick #4 on Edgecombe or Johnson (depending on who they like more).
We know from past reports that they had a very real interest in Salaun and Williams in their respective drafts.
Josh Green fits this team very well from a profile POV.

Brooklyn gets their starting backcourt for 5 years+ in Harper and Vassell.

Charlotte gets picks for the rebuild and likely at some point, Lamelo trade. Supposedly they are in asset acquisition mode.

Works under Sporttrac Trade Machine

[Chinook]

If players want to win, they're going to have to end up taking less money. The Lebron era of forcing contending teams to eat the max salaries is over. So either stars have to spread out on weak teams that can max them out, or they have to take smaller contracts to stick together. We'll likely to end up seeing some of both, with the teams composed of player who took less being significantly stronger than those who spread out. Outside of teams who draft their second-and-third-best player and get to the Finals while they're still cheap, we're not likely to see fully stacked teams anymore. But at the same time, we're also going to see the market start to correct itself, as guys who are not capable of being the best players on title teams will stop getting max contracts.

Like why are folks penciling in a max contract for Fox? Yes, we know that under the old system he "earned it". But we know he's not the best player on a title team, and at least I don't see him as obviously someone who can be the second-best player on such a team. So what's the recourse? Even assuming for a second that teams CAN sign him to a max contract in 2026's (there are a lot that COULD have space, but that's assuming they let a lot of guys go), fewer still can reasonably believe they can sign Fox to a max and win a title with him. The same is true for Durant, JJJ, Bridges or any other expiring player the Spurs bring it. The threat to walk just doesn't hold the weight it used to.

That goes double for Castle and Harper, who can't even choose to leave after their rookie deals unless they're willing to pull a Greg Monroe and sign their QOs. It's possible Castle becomes a very good player -- good enough to be the third guy on a title team -- and still signs for something like $200M/5 rather the $300M/5 people pencil in. I get that they're trying to project the most onerous scenario for safety, but I also think that folks may think a Castle that doesn't earn a full max would be a failure when in reality we're just going to see the market adjust to pay player based on how they fit into a viable next work.

We don't know what Durant and Fox (and Wemby) think in regard to taking a bit less to build a sustainable team. I feel that their cuts don't have to be as severe as some have suggested. Giving up comparatively little off a max salary saves a lot in absolute dollars. We'll see how long it takes for the NBA to adjust to the new rules. I'm really hoping the Spurs are ahead of that curve, and we've seen some rumblings that suggest that they are. Teams are going to have to be able to avoid bad deals, and the hardest tests are usually with re-signing good players that you don't want to have to replace.

[Chinook]

Even as a KD skeptic, here is my KD acquisition scenario that wouldn't give me a frowny face:

Trade #1:

https://i.imgur.com/8StL3op.png



Trade #2:

https://i.imgur.com/T8rPUd8.png



Draft:

Dylan Harper @ #2
Cedric Coward @ #19
Drake Powell @ #38

Free Agency:

Clint Capela signs for 2/10.5 (BAE)
Jake Laravia signs 4/47 (MLE)
Mamu resigns for vet minimum
Lonnie Walker signs for vet minimum
KD extends for 2/86.4
Fox extends for the max

Cap Sheet

https://i.imgur.com/NfpjvHd.png

Depth Chart:

PG: Fox/Harper/Wesley
SG: Castle/Walker/Powell
SF: LaRavia/Champ/Coward
PF: Durant/Barnes/Wade
C: Wembanyama/Capela/Mamu

Last Thoughts:


I don't like this SG depth at all, but I'm not expecting these guys to need to play much. Walker is your spot minutes guy, Powell spends a lot of time in the G-League
I don't really like Capela, but he's a guy I think we could get for the BAE. You can pick your favorite backup C who will take the BAE and insert them here. I'd love Adams of course but I think he might be more expensive
I treat the tax line as a hard cap, so we don't use all the MLE but I just fit under the tax
I am aware that Coward and Powell stock has risen to make this overly optimistic... but this is my fantasy scenario and I get to bend the rules as I wish!



Did they change how minimum salaries work in this new CBA? You've been using five-year minimum salaries, when under the old system it would be the two-year min used instead. Over this many contracts, that saves enough money to make a difference.

[spurraider21]

If players want to win, they're going to have to end up taking less money. The Lebron era of forcing contending teams to eat the max salaries is over. So either stars have to spread out on weak teams that can max them out, or they have to take smaller contracts to stick together. We'll likely to end up seeing some of both, with the teams composed of player who took less being significantly stronger than those who spread out. Outside of teams who draft their second-and-third-best player and get to the Finals while they're still cheap, we're not likely to see fully stacked teams anymore. But at the same time, we're also going to see the market start to correct itself, as guys who are not capable of being the best players on title teams will stop getting max contracts.

Like why are folks penciling in a max contract for Fox? Yes, we know that under the old system he "earned it". But we know he's not the best player on a title team, and at least I don't see him as obviously someone who can be the second-best player on such a team. So what's the recourse? Even assuming for a second that teams CAN sign him to a max contract in 2026's (there are a lot that COULD have space, but that's assuming they let a lot of guys go), fewer still can reasonably believe they can sign Fox to a max and win a title with him. The same is true for Durant, JJJ, Bridges or any other expiring player the Spurs bring it. The threat to walk just doesn't hold the weight it used to.

That goes double for Castle and Harper, who can't even choose to leave after their rookie deals unless they're willing to pull a Greg Monroe and sign their QOs. It's possible Castle becomes a very good player -- good enough to be the third guy on a title team -- and still signs for something like $200M/5 rather the $300M/5 people pencil in. I get that they're trying to project the most onerous scenario for safety, but I also think that folks may think a Castle that doesn't earn a full max would be a failure when in reality we're just going to see the market adjust to pay player based on how they fit into a viable next work.

We don't know what Durant and Fox (and Wemby) think in regard to taking a bit less to build a sustainable team. I feel that their cuts don't to be as severe as some have suggested. Giving up comparatively little off a max salary saves a lot in absolute dollars. We'll see how long it takes for the NBA to adjust to the new rules. I'm really hoping the Spurs are ahead of that curve, and we've seen some rumblings that suggest that they are. Teams are going to have to be able to avoid bad deals, and the hardest tests are usually with re-signing good players that you don't have to have to replace.
doesnt seem the NBA has really changed (yet) when it comes to max contracts. paul george just signed for a max. jimmy butler just extended for the max. jaylen brown got the supermax. markkanen got the max. jamal murray got the max.

these days, a "team friendly discount" is just when a player takes the max a year early instead of waiting, like DJM with Atlanta or Brunson in NY

[Chinook]

doesnt seem the NBA has really changed (yet) when it comes to max contracts. paul george just signed for a max. jimmy butler just extended for the max. jaylen brown got the supermax. markkanen got the max. jamal murray got the max.

these days, a "team friendly discount" is just when a player takes the max a year early instead of waiting, like DJM with Atlanta or Brunson in NY

Brown got his max years ago. Markkanen didn't sign for the max (it actually goes down in the second year). Murray and George did get their contracts after the apron effects were known, and their teams regret them. We'll see about Golden State. The fact that the extension is so short and the team actually had cap space before this past season means they aren't locking themselves into the same situation that teams used to do.

I agree that's what "team friendly" used to mean, and obviously agents and many players are going to try to keep that going. But teams that give those deals out are going to struggle to win. And if teams can win with those contracts, they won't give them out anymore.

[spurraider21]

Brown got his max years ago. Markkanen didn't sign for the max (it actually goes down in the second year). Murray and George did get their contracts after the apron effects were known, and their teams regret them. We'll see about Golden State. The fact that the extension is so short and the team actually had cap space before this past season means they aren't locking themselves into the same situation that teams used to do.

I agree that's what "team friendly" used to mean, and obviously agents and many players are going to try to keep that going. But teams that give those deals out are going to struggle to win. And if teams can win with those contracts, they won't give them out anymore.
good catch on Lauri. i will still point out that Brown's supermax came after the latest CBA and all the apron rules were known

i do think things should change on this front, but theres little evidence that it has

[RC_Drunkford]

Doesn't change the fact that he isn't nearly the shooter that Cam Johnson is. KJ's lack of consistency as a shooter limits his ceiling. Cam Johnson starting at the four playing alongside two slashers and a 7'4 big man drawing all the attention is just a better fit.

Harrison Barnes shot 43.3 % from 3 on 4.4. attempts. That's the same role Cam Johnson would play here and he wouldn't do much more than Barnes on both ends.

[RC_Drunkford]

Just hypothesising on a potential trade for #2 (Not advocating btw. Just say SA don't see Harper as "Spursy" for one reason or another...) Would the Spurs/Nets/Hornets consider this?

3 Team - SAS - BKN - CHA

SAS Receives: Pick #4, Mark Williams, Josh Green and Tidjuane Salaun from Charlotte

Brooklyn Receives: Pick #2, Devin Vassell from SAS

Charlotte Receives: Cameron Johnson, Pick #8, Pick #26, Pick #27 from Brooklyn - Malaki Branham and pick #14 from SAS

Why they'd do it?

Spurs use pick #4 on Edgecombe or Johnson (depending on who they like more).
We know from past reports that they had a very real interest in Salaun and Williams in their respective drafts.
Josh Green fits this team very well from a profile POV.

Brooklyn gets their starting backcourt for 5 years+ in Harper and Vassell.

Charlotte gets picks for the rebuild and likely at some point, Lamelo trade. Supposedly they are in asset acquisition mode.

Works under Sporttrac Trade Machine

hell no. Mark Williams can't even pass a physical and Salaun is only an NBA player in theory. Devin Vassell alone is worth more than that entire Hornets package. Might as well trade Wemby for Naz Reid while we're destroying the franchise.

[cd021]

Harrison Barnes shot 43.3 % from 3 on 4.4. attempts. That's the same role Cam Johnson would play here and he wouldn't do much more than Barnes on both ends.

I think Johnson is a more versatile shooter than Barnes but, in that scenario, the Spurs would have both with Johnson starting and Barnes coming off the bench. Having two 6-8 sharpshooting power forwards is a good thing.

[RC_Drunkford]

I think Johnson is a more versatile shooter than Barnes but, in that scenario, the Spurs would have both with Johnson starting and Barnes coming off the bench. Having two 6-8 sharpshooting power forwards is a good thing.

having 2 power forwards who don't rebound or play defense is not a good thing

[cd021]

The problem isn't the first year of KD's extension: it's the second since that's the year Victor's supermax would kick in. So in 2027-28 it would look like

Durant: $64.3 million
Wemby: $56.1 million
Fox: $55.1 million
Harper: $13.6 million
Castle: $12.7 million

So that's $201.8 million between just those five. Cap is $187.1 million, tax is $227.4 million, first apron $237.1 million, second apron $251.4 million. Assuming the Spurs want to stay below the first apron we're talking $35 million to fill out the other ten roster spots. So Sochan is gone, Keldon is gone, no MLE signings any year, you trade away either the 2026 or the ATL 2027, and you fill the roster with mostly minimum scrubs. KD at full price kills the team's 2027-28 payroll unless the owners are willing to spend well into the first apron and maybe even the second. Not holding my breath on that.

Whereas no Keldon in 27-28 and Vassell is making $24.7 million in 27-28 if the Spurs don't trade for Durant. It's a nearly $40 million difference in payroll paying Durant max. That $40 million can instead go to three picks and now you're filling 6 slots with $35 million while having theoretically a good nine-man rotation already in place.

My scenario hinged on the Spurs and Durant agreeing to a non-max extension of around $114 million or $57 million a year. That would give them a lot more breathing room. Your scenario also hinges on a 30% max for Fox. That is probably going to happen, but I suppose it's possible that he could take slightly less to help make a KD trade more viable since a potential deal would happen far in advance of a Fox extension.

That could give the Spurs at least $45 million to fill out the other eight spots to get to 13. To your point, the Spurs couldn't go out past two seasons on whoever they might sign to the MLE this season in this scenario but it's not impossible to construct a championship roster with that as your five best players. Especially if Wembanyama is a top-5 player at that point, Fox doesn't disappoint, and KD is still a bucket at 39.

[PhantomDashCam]

hell no. Mark Williams can't even pass a physical and Salaun is only an NBA player in theory. Devin Vassell alone is worth more than that entire Hornets package. Might as well trade Wemby for Naz Reid while we're destroying the franchise.

Health is obviously key here (some have reported that the long term back injury report looks bogus) but I think you're either undervaluing Williams overall impact or overvaluing Vassells.

A rotation of Wemby-Sochan-Green-Castle-Fox with Williams-KJ-Barnes-Edgecombe-Champ in support. Salaun-Wesley as energy/developmental pieces. There's some merit here.

[cd021]

And you have Barnes here as well that can do a lot of what Cam does. Now, if Barnes could be traded for a first or something to make sure Cam has his 32+MPG then ok I can see sort of shuffling around. But to me it makes more sense to trade Barnes for Cam

Swapping out one shooter for another doesn't really solve the Spurs spacing problems. They basically have just four good shooters, at least swapping KJ out for CJ would give them five with Castle hopefully being close to league-average next season.


having 2 power forwards who don't rebound or play defense is not a good thing

I don't think neither are bad enough to be easily exploited especially with Wembanyama protecting the rim. Meanwhile, having both could significantly help their offense. Otherwise, the Spurs as is, plus with Harper would have poor spacing.

[exstatic]

good catch on Lauri. i will still point out that Brown's supermax came after the latest CBA and all the apron rules were known

i do think things should change on this front, but theres little evidence that it has

NBA did a soft launch, where they implemented some of the apron rules each year. If you look at what Boston is facing, you’ll see what other NBA teams see.

The first order effect was fewer years. PG left because the Clippers wouldn’t do five. As you pointed out, Butler got only two. I think the second order effect will be guys like MPJ and Markannen not getting a bag going forward. MPJ is pretty much the root cause of the dissolution of the Nuggets. In another thread we were discussing how dumb Ainge was for not offloading Markannen last year under his old deal. This type of bloated contract for a high level role player will make him very difficult to move for any real asset package.

[cd021]

Lowe did say that, but it was definitely speculation. If KD is willing to do that, it changes the calculus... but just my opinion but I don't see it.


Here's my rationale on trying to estimate what KD's next deal will be:



KD's contemporaries are LeBron and Steph, both guys similarly up there in years, both all of these guys are still performing at high levels... all of them are on SuperMax deals.
Jimmy Butler is almost exactly 1 year younger than, and isn't on KD's level... and the Warriors just gave him a 2-year 35% max
Harden (also almost 1 full year younger than KD, performing at a high level, but I don't think quite the same level as KD) is the example of a guy is this "stature" who did take a paycut, doing a 1+1 at 24% of the cap. If KD did that, it would be a 2/84 deal... still significantly more than the 2/60 thrown out there. IMO, this is probably around the floor for KD's next deal.


That's just my opinion... of course I could be wrong (but I won't be... because I'm actually KD's alt).

I'm not sure why some are expecting KD to go from making $54 million to $30 million when he's still playing at a high level. John Hollinger mentioned that his max extension would be 2 years, $128 ($62 million), a reasonable pay cut would be around 2 years, $110 ($55 million).


That too much for KD. I'd do ot if we kept 2029 though. On the 2nd I think it'd have to be either 19 or 26 + 27 coming our way.

That 2029 first gives me pause, for sure, I'm not sure they could get a KD deal done without it unless the Suns really value KJ and Vassell. Not impossible. For the second trade. I don't think the Nets would trade Cam Johnson and 19 or 26 and 27 for Keldon and 14. I think that tends to overate KJ's value unless the Nets love KJ. Johnson could probably net a first on his own, KJ probably can't. At least by trading back 12 spots, the Spurs still get a first.

[cd021]

Keldon + Vassell alone is sufficient and works on the salaries. Im not considering adding more until there is a trade — from a team KD will agree to go too — that tops it.

Adding Branham would get them closer to matching salaries, clear out a roster spot, and keep them from having to offload him to another team. If the Spurs don't include the 14th pick, I think Minny could beat that offer by moving Randle, Divincenzo, and the 17th or 31st pick

[RC_Drunkford]

Health is obviously key here (some have reported that the long term back injury report looks bogus) but I think you're either undervaluing Williams overall impact or overvaluing Vassells.

A rotation of Wemby-Sochan-Green-Castle-Fox with Williams-KJ-Barnes-Edgecombe-Champ in support. Salaun-Wesley as energy/developmental pieces. There's some merit here.

Mark Williams has played 106 games in 3 seasons. He has missed 2/3 of all games. What exactly am I undervaluing here if my back up C is not even available for 50% of the regular season? He has basically the value of an open roster spot. Trading the #2 pick for him, a G-Leaguer and a back up 2 is lunacy.

[RC_Drunkford]

I don't think neither are bad enough to be easily exploited especially with Wembanyama protecting the rim. Meanwhile, having both could significantly help their offense. Otherwise, the Spurs as is, plus with Harper would have poor spacing.

Barnes defensive metrics are as bad as Keldon‘s. He‘s one of the 3 worst defenders on the roster. Cam Johnson would be 4th. They can absolutely be exploited and if you watch the playoffs that‘s exactly what teams have been doing in the postseason. It‘s like 3-point shooting defenders don’t exist cause people have a love affair with Cam Johnson who‘s a negative on defense.

There‘s plenty of players who can do both.

[Ice009]

Man, I'm a Bruce Bowen fan. I'm interested in 3&D players, but I have no interest in 3&No D players. If Cam Johnson is a poor defender (probably a question I should have asked ages ago if he could at least play defense, but since I never really had any interest in him, I didn't bother), why would the Spurs want to waste assets on him?

[tbdog]

Man, I'm a Bruce Bowen fan. I'm interested in 3&D players, but I have no interest in 3&No D players. If Cam Johnson is a poor defender (probably a question I should have asked ages ago if he could at least play defense, but since I never really had any interest in him, I didn't bother), why would the Spurs want to waste assets on him?

The problem I have with Cam Johnson isn't so much his defense. It's that he is a poor rebounder. We need shooting, but also need to be good on the boards considering who your center is. Vassell is also a poor rebounder for his position. Not sure about Fox or Castle. This makes Sochan necessary despite his shooting short comings.

[mo7888]

I'm not sure why some are expecting KD to go from making $54 million to $30 million when he's still playing at a high level. John Hollinger mentioned that his max extension would be 2 years, $128 ($62 million), a reasonable pay cut would be around 2 years, $110 ($55 million).



That 2029 first gives me pause, for sure, I'm not sure they could get a KD deal done without it unless the Suns really value KJ and Vassell. Not impossible. For the second trade. I don't think the Nets would trade Cam Johnson and 19 or 26 and 27 for Keldon and 14. I think that tends to overate KJ's value unless the Nets love KJ. Johnson could probably net a first on his own, KJ probably can't. At least by trading back 12 spots, the Spurs still get a first.

It's a pretty easy decision for me then. I just wouldn't do either deal at those prices and yell phoenix and Brooklyn to go find better deals if they think they are out there. In regard to KD, it just comes down to where he wants to be. If he wants to be here then nobody is trumping that offer for what would be a disgruntled Star. In the case of Brooklyn they've just got to decide if they want to overvalue Cam again like they did at the deadline. He's not a must have anyways. He's a nice fit, but it's not something that we can't get elsewhere.

[CGD]

It's a pretty easy decision for me then. I just wouldn't do either deal at those prices and yell phoenix and Brooklyn to go find better deals if they think they are out there. In regard to KD, it just comes down to where he wants to be. If he wants to be here then nobody is trumping that offer for what would be a disgruntled Star. In the case of Brooklyn they've just got to decide if they want to overvalue Cam again like they did at the deadline. He's not a must have anyways. He's a nice fit, but it's not something that we can't get elsewhere.

Some commonsense. I keep coming back to Windhorst's statement from a few months ago about how the KD markets is going to be much more tepid than he/Suns hope. It's all to logical (KD's age, shitty negotiation position, KD's injuries, KD's divaness, etc.)

[CGD]

The problem I have with Cam Johnson isn't so much his defense. It's that he is a poor rebounder. We need shooting, but also need to be good on the boards considering who your center is. Vassell is also a poor rebounder for his position. Not sure about Fox or Castle. This makes Sochan necessary despite his shooting short comings.

Folks here overrate the crap out of this guy. I don't think teams view him as THAT much better than Vassell honestly (especially factoring age), and certainly not enough to couple with #8 to jump all the way to #2 as had been suggested elsewhere. That's just insane.

[Ice009]

Folks here overrate the crap out of this guy. I don't think teams view him as THAT much better than Vassell honestly (especially factoring age), and certainly not enough to couple with #8 to jump all the way to #2 as had been suggested elsewhere. That's just insane.

I really do think if either Vassell or Keldon were on the Brooklyn Nets this season, either of them could have averaged 20ppg. Johnson is a better shooter, but that doesn't mean he's worth 2 or 3 first round picks (weren't Brooklyn after 2 or 3 first round picks for him last trade deadline? If that is correct/true, they're dreaming). If he's also a poor rebounder and average defender, no way I'd even give up a first round pick for him without some protections on it.

[R. DeMurre]

1929327612779782544


In his defense, he had the benefit of healthier teams and playing in tandem with Herb Jones in the past, as opposed to last season when he was suddenly the leader in minutes on a bad injured team. I don't think Murphy will ever be a defensive stopper, but he could be effective in a good defensive scheme.

[ginobilized]

My hope is for more of a man-child type at the 4, which Cam Johnson most certainly is not.

PJ Washington is my first choice and as Nico stated, they are working on both win now and build for the future timelines. Good luck with that! But, they need a point guard and may be wheeling and dealing. Hopefully we can grab a big from them.
Can't wait for the draft night insanity to be followed by free agency and trade season. Might have to purchase a movie theater popcorn machine for July 6 at 12pm. It's going to be an interesting spectacle.

[LeBowen]

My hope is for more of a man-child type at the 4.

Reggie, is that you?

(Reggie Miller doesn't know the meaning of manchild.)

[Jordan Jackson]

All I know is Spurs better start valuing players who can shoot, dribble and defend.

Sochan/Vassell/Johnson should be moved sooner than later. If this were the 90s - they’d be great players to have. And the media knows these guys aren’t very good but too afraid to say it publicly. Privately though…

The league has changed/changing pretty fast the last decade. Player need to be versatile/dynamic. Spurs keep talking about positionless basketball. But that only works when the players themselves are multi skilled.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Reggie, is that you?

(Reggie Miller doesn't know the meaning of manchild.)

Zion it is then. No bigger man-child than him in the NBA.

[spurraider21]

The problem I have with Cam Johnson isn't so much his defense. It's that he is a poor rebounder. We need shooting, but also need to be good on the boards considering who your center is. Vassell is also a poor rebounder for his position. Not sure about Fox or Castle. This makes Sochan necessary despite his shooting short comings.
ive been much cooler on a cam johnson trade than most here, but in his defense, he's not just some guy who stands in the corner with his hands out waiting to catch and shoot. he's a very well rounded offensive player. he can put the ball on the floor, pull up in short/midrange spots, solid touch when he gets inside, and a nice passer too. for an off-ball player like him, averaging 3.5 assists is quite nice (as opposed to somebody like MPJ).

but yeah, he has something of a keldon-ish build, which is why he cant really keep up with quicker 3's, and usually just gets by defending some of the smaller 4s. has subpar positional size for the 4 so the rebounding is there and his defense is usually not impactful. i do think if he is starting next to somebody like sochan they can cross-match though, and that would be a pretty effecitve use ofr him. but he needs to be in a lineup that can optimize him that way and i dont see that starting sochan is going to make sense for the spurs anytime soon

[spurraider21]

In his defense, he had the benefit of healthier teams and playing in tandem with Herb Jones in the past, as opposed to last season when he was suddenly the leader in minutes on a bad injured team. I don't think Murphy will ever be a defensive stopper, but he could be effective in a good defensive scheme.
true. from a spurs perspective if he is starting next to somebody like Castle, with Wemby behind him, and with us potentially drafting a defensive forward at 14 with Bryant/Fleming/Coward, i think he'd be fine

[exstatic]

Zion it is then. No bigger man-child than him in the NBA.

No bigger anything.

[RC_Drunkford]

Spurs should prioritize players who can guard positions up and switch like OKC. Our PF should be someone who can guard centers in the post so Wemby can roam at the rim and play help. Like the Lakers did 2 years back when they put Rui Hachimura on Joker

[scott]

Did they change how minimum salaries work in this new CBA? You've been using five-year minimum salaries, when under the old system it would be the two-year min used instead. Over this many contracts, that saves enough money to make a difference.

I'm not sure what you're referring to with the new system versus the old system. I'm using the 5-year min just as shorthand because there will probably be a mix of players who fill out the roster and I was too lazy to look up the exact minimum deal for the people I explicitly named and then I assume when they expire they get backfilled by some other minimum guy. These aren't meant to act as roster charges, but an estimate of what the actual payroll would end up looking like in this scenario.

A 2-year versus a 5-year is a little under a $400k difference this year, going up to around $450k in 2027-28. So that would be an additional $3.1MM of tax space in 27-28 if you substituted 2-year vets for 5-year vets in my scenario.

[scott]

Folks here overrate the crap out of this guy. I don't think teams view him as THAT much better than Vassell honestly (especially factoring age), and certainly not enough to couple with #8 to jump all the way to #2 as had been suggested elsewhere. That's just insane.

I agree. I think Vassell and Cam are about equal on court, but Vassell's age and theoretical upside make him more valuable.

Devin would tear it up as Brooklyn's tank commander. I'd consider a Devin for Cam swap straight up, just because Cam fits better, but I'm not interested in giving up any draft capital for Cam and I don't think Brooklyn is in the kind of position where they are going to send out draft capital for anyone, because they are still tanking and rebuilding.

[scott]

In his defense, he had the benefit of healthier teams and playing in tandem with Herb Jones in the past, as opposed to last season when he was suddenly the leader in minutes on a bad injured team. I don't think Murphy will ever be a defensive stopper, but he could be effective in a good defensive scheme.

Spot on. TMIII isn't a defensive ace, but he's capable of being a good team defender.

[buttsR4rebounding]

The problem I have with Cam Johnson isn't so much his defense. It's that he is a poor rebounder. We need shooting, but also need to be good on the boards considering who your center is. Vassell is also a poor rebounder for his position. Not sure about Fox or Castle. This makes Sochan necessary despite his shooting short comings.

Except he has the 11th worst defensive rating in the league at 120.6. He makes Harrison Barnes look like Wemby. I do believe part of it is a lack of effort on that end of the floor playing for a POS team like Brooklyn. Save it for the offensive end that will more readily translate into contract dollars at some point.

[ginobilized]

Reggie, is that you?

(Reggie Miller doesn't know the meaning of manchild.)

Not Reggie, I promise. I think I have a good grip on the man-child idea. More on the man side than Cam Johnson at the PF spot is my only point here.

[Chinook]

I'm not sure what you're referring to with the new system versus the old system. I'm using the 5-year min just as shorthand because there will probably be a mix of players who fill out the roster and I was too lazy to look up the exact minimum deal for the people I explicitly named and then I assume when they expire they get backfilled by some other minimum guy. These aren't meant to act as roster charges, but an estimate of what the actual payroll would end up looking like in this scenario.

A 2-year versus a 5-year is a little under a $400k difference this year, going up to around $450k in 2027-28. So that would be an additional $3.1MM of tax space in 27-28 if you substituted 2-year vets for 5-year vets in my scenario.

One-year vet min deals count for the two-year amount for tax purposes no matter what level of experience the player has. Unless these guys are signing two-year min deals, there's no reason to use any other amount. That's not me trying to discredit your chart, just explaining how those contracts work and wondering if that was one of the changes they made to min deals recently.

[scott]

One-year vet min deals count for the two-year amount for tax purposes no matter what level of experience the player has. Unless these guys are signing two-year min deals, there's no reason to use any other amount. That's not me trying to discredit your chart, just explaining how those contracts work and wondering if that was one of the changes they made to min deals recently.

Thanks, I didn't know that. So no, I'm not using 5-year because of a change to the rules.

The CBA Faq still says this, so I will update my sheet to reflect this going forward.




For players who signed as free agents (i.e., not draft picks) under the current CBA, and make less than the two-year minimum salary, the minimum salary for a two-year veteran is used in place of their actual salary.2,3
For minimum salary players whose salary is partially paid by the league (see question number 22 (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q22)) only the amount paid by the team (the two-year minimum salary) is taxed.




When a player has been in the NBA for three or more seasons, and is playing under a one-year, 10-day or Rest-of-Season contract at the minimum salary, the league reimburses the team for part of his salary -- any amount above the minimum salary for a two-year veteran. For example, the minimum salary for a two-year veteran in 2017-18 is $1,471,382, so for a ten-year veteran, with a minimum salary of $2,328,652, the league would reimburse the team $857,270. Only the two-year minimum salary is included in the team salary, not the player's full salary. They do this so teams won't shy away from signing older veterans simply because they are more expensive than younger veterans.

[scott]

An idea seen on Reddit. Certainly a reasonable price, but KAT is on a short list of Never Spurs for me... so I would hate this:

https://i.redd.it/ua01orn4rj4f1.jpeg

[CGD]

An idea seen on Reddit. Certainly a reasonable price, but KAT is on a short list of Never Spurs for me... so I would hate this:

https://i.redd.it/ua01orn4rj4f1.jpeg

Hell no on KAT, but the 3 team framework is interesting. Tinkering with the Spotrac trade machine, this framework works on the salary after July 1.

SAS: OG
MIL: KAT+ Dev
NYK: Giannis + Kuz + Connington

Obviously MIL would need to be overwhelmed with picks, but I think the Knicks would have to chip in as much as us. Not sure if #2 + Dev for OG is warranted here.

[exstatic]

An idea seen on Reddit. Certainly a reasonable price, but KAT is on a short list of Never Spurs for me... so I would hate this:

https://i.redd.it/ua01orn4rj4f1.jpeg
If you want a big man who can shoot, I’m betting Indy might be amenable to a S&T for Myles. He’s led the league in blocks twice, including a Wemby like 3.4 in 20-21.

[scott]

**NOT MY IDEA... SEEN ON REDDIT**

How would people feel about this *if it did not include the 2030 pick with DAL swap*?

https://i.redd.it/jdkr01y8zl4f1.jpeg
https://preview.redd.it/mock-draft-w-trades-v0-jdkr01y8zl4f1.jpeg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&850ffd99

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

**NOT MY IDEA... SEEN ON REDDIT**

How would people feel about this *if it did not include the 2030 pick with DAL swap*?

https://i.redd.it/jdkr01y8zl4f1.jpeg
https://preview.redd.it/mock-draft-w-trades-v0-jdkr01y8zl4f1.jpeg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&850ffd99

Tbh no

[exstatic]

**NOT MY IDEA... SEEN ON REDDIT**

How would people feel about this *if it did not include the 2030 pick with DAL swap*?

https://i.redd.it/jdkr01y8zl4f1.jpeg
https://preview.redd.it/mock-draft-w-trades-v0-jdkr01y8zl4f1.jpeg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&850ffd99

I’m out on Lauri with his current contract.

[CGD]

**NOT MY IDEA... SEEN ON REDDIT**

How would people feel about this *if it did not include the 2030 pick with DAL swap*?

https://i.redd.it/jdkr01y8zl4f1.jpeg
https://preview.redd.it/mock-draft-w-trades-v0-jdkr01y8zl4f1.jpeg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&850ffd99

You might be the only one left on Lauri Markenen island.

[scott]

You might be the only one left on Lauri Markenen island.

I actually rowed off in a little dinghy as well :lol

[DPG21920]

**NOT MY IDEA... SEEN ON REDDIT**

How would people feel about this *if it did not include the 2030 pick with DAL swap*?

https://i.redd.it/jdkr01y8zl4f1.jpeg
https://preview.redd.it/mock-draft-w-trades-v0-jdkr01y8zl4f1.jpeg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&850ffd99

Fair trade if you take out the Dallas swap. I wouldn’t do it, but I can see why it could happen.

[scott]

Fair trade if you take out the Dallas swap. I wouldn’t do it, but I can see why it could happen.

Agree 100%. It would make a lot of basketball sense. Would make a lot less financial sense. For that reason, I'm out... but Lauri (salary aside) is kind of like the prototypical 4 we are looking for, aren't we? It would be nice if he were a better defender/rim protector... but he's an elite shooer and a good rebounder.

But... I'm still out.

[CGD]

I actually rowed off in a little dinghy as well :lol

haha, no shame. We all have out pets. I own the fact that I have an irrational love for DeAndre Hunter ever since we helped my Hoos win the national championship. Speaking of... Ty Jerome anyone?

[scott]

haha, no shame. We all have out pets. I own the fact that I have an irrational love for DeAndre Hunter ever since we helped my Hoos win the national championship. Speaking of... Ty Jerome anyone?

In a world where we weren't already adding Dylan Harper... I'd be all for Ty Jerome. Probably not many minutes for him in a Fox/Castle/Harper world though.

[Chinook]

**NOT MY IDEA... SEEN ON REDDIT**

How would people feel about this *if it did not include the 2030 pick with DAL swap*?

https://i.redd.it/jdkr01y8zl4f1.jpeg
https://preview.redd.it/mock-draft-w-trades-v0-jdkr01y8zl4f1.jpeg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&850ffd99

That trade's not possible and one of the reasons why it's unfortunate that Fanspo is as popular as it is. It lets teams trade swaps they own from other teams as if they're picks.

Maybe the Spurs and Jazz could agree to a swap of 14 and 21 and a "worst of" 2027 pick that they haven't already traded the Suns.

That LAC trade is interesting. Kris Dunn was a fantastic defender last year and would be going cheap enough to where the Spurs could try to get in on it.

[scott]

That trade's not possible and one of the reasons why it's unfortunate that Fanspo is as popular as it is. It lets teams trade swaps they own from other teams as if they're picks.

Maybe the Spurs and Jazz could agree to a swap of 14 and 21 and a "worst of" 2027 pick that they haven't already traded the Suns.

That LAC trade is interesting. Kris Dunn was a fantastic defender last year and would be going cheap enough to where the Spurs could try to get in on it.

To Fanspo's credit... none of these trades are run through the trade machine... these are just ideas that the poster just forced and typed into the comments.

But that is why I made the comment to consider with the DAL swap excluded (and when people do attach them to trades, I just assume they are trading the full pick with swaps attached unless they specify that they are trading a double swap)

[TeKu]

You might be the only one left on Lauri Markenen island.

I'm still there a bit. Don't think you can judge this last year for him at all given how hard the Jazz were tanking for Flagg. If he is anything close to his previous 2 years then the basketball fit is just perfect, even more so now that we have seen Castle's driving game. That trade price is such a crazy discount to what was being discussed this time last year. I'd probably do it even though it means likely losing Sochan and a financial hell to unwind in 2 years time (same situation if Giannis arrives).

[jjspur]

Don't know how or with whom, but I can see the spurs trading 2 of their 4 2026 second rounders and possibly the 38th pick in this years draft for something in this draft - possibly a pick in the mid to late 20's, or possibly a pick and a player as the 3rd team in a Durrant or Giannis trade. For the spurs, its always about the possibilities. Now is the time to do something with all those 2nds. Next year may be a bit late and hopefully the spurs won't get stuck with all those seconds and not be able to do much with them.

[RC_Drunkford]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GsZ9LleW8AAJ4rn?format=jpg&name=medium

[cd021]

Barnes defensive metrics are as bad as Keldon‘s. He‘s one of the 3 worst defenders on the roster. Cam Johnson would be 4th. They can absolutely be exploited and if you watch the playoffs that‘s exactly what teams have been doing in the postseason. It‘s like 3-point shooting defenders don’t exist cause people have a love affair with Cam Johnson who‘s a negative on defense.

There are two major points I disagree with. One being that Barnes played all 82 games for a team that was tanking towards the end. His metrics aren't going to be all that accurate when he's playing with a bunch of random lineups.


C. Paul, H. Barnes, J. Champagnie, V. Wembanyama, and S. Castle had a plus 12.6 net rating and had the highest offensive rating of any Spurs lineup that played 100+ minutes and at least 15 games. C. Paul, H. Barnes, D. Vassell, V. Wembanyama, and S. Castle had a terrific defensive rating and a plus 11.5 net rating, while C. Paul, H. Barnes, D. Vassell, J. Sochan, and V. Wembanyama had a terrific defensive rating of 100 and a plus 16.3 net rating.


The Spurs were actually really good defensive when Barnes was on the floor with Wembanyama and another good defender. Offensively, they were often at their best with Barnes at the four and Wembanyama at the five, often blowing the doors off teams.


Adding Cam Johnson and putting him in Barnes' starting role would probably yield even better results. Johnson is a more well-rounded offensive player and could feast on open threes and DHOs with Wembanyama.


It's also much harder to attack a 6-8 player than a small or average-sized guard. I.e., the Pacers hunted Brunson. They also hunted Towns, especially when he was in foul trouble. Barnes or Cam Johnson wouldn't be playing the five, so they would still have Wembanyama behind them and possibly Castle defending the primary ball handler.


Teams forcing a switch to take a contested shot over a 6-8 player isn't exactly great offense. Especially if the Spurs are able to keep Wembanyama healthy and play him 33+ minutes in the playoffs.


I'm not seeing how putting a sharpshooting four next to Wembanyama and two slashers and at least another good shooter would result in anything less than a great offensive lineup. Defensively, putting Barnes or Cam Johnson next to Wemby and another good defender would probably still result in a lineup more than capable of getting stops. The numbers seem to back that up.


There‘s plenty of players who can do both.

I really don't think there are plenty of sharpshooting fours who can also defend. Also, how much would that cost the Spurs if they are available? Even Barnes being mostly just a good shooter at the four still had a big impact. Even those players are still relatively rare. Especially a player such as Johnson who is a well-above average high-volume three-point shooter at 6-8.

[RC_Drunkford]

I really don't think there are plenty of sharpshooting fours who can also defend. Also, how much would that cost the Spurs if they are available? Even Barnes being mostly just a good shooter at the four still had a big impact. Even those players are still relatively rare. Especially a player such as Johnson who is a well-above average high-volume three-point shooter at 6-8.

Except Barnes was also a bad defender when he played for the Kings.

here are 2:

Jake LaRavia - cost: nothing, he's a free agent - contract: 10-12 million per year - age: 23

PJ Washington: cost: less than Cam Johnson - age: 26

you can also add KD to the list. Costs a little more, but is miles better than Cam.

[cd021]

It's a pretty easy decision for me then. I just wouldn't do either deal at those prices and yell phoenix and Brooklyn to go find better deals if they think they are out there. In regard to KD, it just comes down to where he wants to be. If he wants to be here then nobody is trumping that offer for what would be a disgruntled Star. In the case of Brooklyn they've just got to decide if they want to overvalue Cam again like they did at the deadline. He's not a must have anyways. He's a nice fit, but it's not something that we can't get elsewhere.

KD not taking a 55% pay cut shouldn't be a deterrent to a deal IMO. He could still take a sizeable pay cut from his max number, and the Spurs could offset about $44 million of that extension by including both Vassell and Johnson in a deal.


If the Spurs could get Fox to do the same by shaving off a few million a year on an extension, then they'd be cooking. They could go with Fox, Harper, Castle, KD, and Wembanyama. Spurs would be a tax team for one season before Durant's contract ends but would probably draw some ring chasers to help fill out the roster.


With any luck, Fox would still have value and could trade him after those three seasons and continue on with a seasoned Castle, Harper, and Wembanyama. Getting three legit shots at a championship before Wemby turns 25 would be tempting.


As for the Cam Johnson trade. The Spurs could get some cheap shooters, potentially but i'm not sure they actually will. I could see them getting a backup center in free agency but not much else. They may be fine running it back with Harper swapped in for Paul and a non-tire fire option behind Wembanyama.

Cam Johnson for Keldon Johnson would make the rotation make a lot more since but that's just me.

[LeBowen]

I actually rowed off in a little dinghy as well :lol

I'd actually still take Markkanen if he was that cheap.
Devin, Keldon, Barnes, Jeremy being available in that trade and obviously the #14 pick. I wouldn't trade any of the picks with swaps attached.

His contract is an overpay, but we'd be fine for two seasons, probably even three before Castle's extension kicks in.
I doubt Markkanen will fall off enough to be a negative contract, we should always be able to move him.

[cd021]

Except Barnes was also a bad defender when he played for the Kings.

here are 2:

Jake LaRavia - cost: nothing, he's a free agent - contract: 10-12 million per year - age: 23

PJ Washington: cost: less than Cam Johnson - age: 26

you can also add KD to the list. Costs a little more, but is miles better than Cam.

Does Barnes being bad defensively on the Kings matter when many of the Spurs' most played lineups featured him and were great defensively and terrific offensively?

Both LaRavia and Washington are capable shooters and cheaper, but Johnson is taller and still a better offensive player than both.

I mentioned above that KD would be my first open given his outrageous shooting numbers and defense. I mentioned how much those players could cost and KD would probably cost at least KJ, Vassell, Branham, the 14th pick, and possibly another. I'd drive all three to the airport if it meant getting him.

[tbdog]

Why did Markkanen have such a poor shooting season?

[RC_Drunkford]

I take John Collins over Markkanen. Averaged better numbers and costs 20 million less per year

[RC_Drunkford]

Does Barnes being bad defensively on the Kings matter when many of the Spurs' most played lineups featured him and were great defensively and terrific offensively?

Both LaRavia and Washington are capable shooters and cheaper, but Johnson is taller and still a better offensive player than both.

I mentioned above that KD would be my first open given his outrageous shooting numbers and defense. I mentioned how much those players could cost and KD would probably cost at least KJ, Vassell, Branham, the 14th pick, and possibly another. I'd drive all three to the airport if it meant getting him.

just say you're in love with Cam Johnson instead of bringing some ridiculous arguments

Cam Johnson - height with shoes: 6'8.5'' - wingspan 6'10'' - standing reach - 8'7''

Jake LaRavia - height with shoes: 6'8'' - wingspan 6'9.5'' - standing reach - 8'8''

PJ Washington - height with shoes: 6'8'' - wingspan 7'2.5'' - standing reach - 8'11''

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDKfHMRfQJA

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Sir BW and Sir RCB

are you working night and day for our moves/trades hehehehe

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eHOLZ5PUNo

[cutewizard]

Adams
Sohan
LaRavia and Harper would make an incredible second unit

[CorrectCrusader]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1Z0u09Awe8

Thought this video was funny, wanted to share.

[jjspur]

Except Barnes was also a bad defender when he played for the Kings.

here are 2:

Jake LaRavia - cost: nothing, he's a free agent - contract: 10-12 million per year - age: 23

PJ Washington: cost: less than Cam Johnson - age: 26

you can also add KD to the list. Costs a little more, but is miles better than Cam.

Since the spurs want to make a big splash (Giannis or Durrant) , instead they could try for both of these guys and save a few bucks.

[cd021]

LaRavia and Washington are both officially listed at 6'7 and Johnson at 6'8. That's a strange way of saying that I was right.

[RC_Drunkford]

LaRavia and Washington are both officially listed at 6'7 and Johnson at 6'8. That's a strange way of saying that I was right.

Unless you think NBA players block shots with their head, you should understand that standing reach matters more than height. :lol

Mine are combine numbers, yours ain't. Which means yours are wrong unless they shrinked.

I understand you have a love affair with Cam Johnson, but I'm confident the Spurs are smarter than that.

[RC_Drunkford]

Phoenix is aggressive in pursuit of a) trading Kevin Durant and b) regaining full control of their draft capital starting with the No. 10 pick in next month’s draft, team sources said. Since the conclusion of the season, Houston has fielded several calls from Phoenix, who have since gradually lowered their asking price for Durant, those sources said. There is a price where the Rockets would be interested, (https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6396071/2025/06/03/rockets-steven-adams-giannis-antetokounmpo-) but with a fear of breaking up their roster for a 36-year-old coming off injury, doubt remains over a deal materializing.

that means they would be interested in #14 I assume

[cd021]

Unless you think NBA players block shots with their head, you should understand that standing reach matters more than height. :lol

Mine are combine numbers, yours ain't. Which means yours are wrong unless they shrinked.

I understand you have a love affair with Cam Johnson, but I'm confident the Spurs are smarter than that.

This is classic goalpost moving. All I said was that the Spurs should target Cam Johnson because his shooting would be a perfect fit for the starting lineup as a better version of Barnes.


Now I'm in love with the guy because I used the NBA's official measurements to say that he was taller than Washington and LaRavia, which is true, and that he was a better shooter, which he is. :rolleyes

You want those players, that's fine but me wanting Cam Johnson involves swapping out Keldon and replacing him in the rotation with a better shooter. Both options are fine.

[RC_Drunkford]

If Durant is traded, he will be allowed to sign a two-year, $111 million extension right away with his new team, or the same two-year, $124 million extension he could sign with Phoenix but six months after the trade. What to expect: Similar to the end of Jimmy Butler III’s tenure with the Miami Heat, Durant signs a two-year, $111 million extension with Phoenix and is then traded (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45437085/nba-offseason-2025-sga-jokic-luka-top-extension-candidates).

if that's the salary for his extension, I'm out

1929904245156847881

[sfernald]

Well we ain’t got one of those.

[CGD]

if that's the salary for his extension, I'm out

1929904245156847881

KAT for KD in 3.. 2…1…

[SpursFan86]

if that's the salary for his extension, I'm out

1929904245156847881

Yeah, not sure I’m on board with paying KD $55MM+ a year through 2028. I expect him to still be borderline all-NBA caliber this upcoming season. Decent chance he’s all-star caliber the following year…but by 2028 I can see that contract being pretty brutal.

[cd021]

Yeah, not sure I’m on board with paying KD $55MM+ a year in 2026 and 2027.

Serious question: Would Spurs fans be more ok paying KD or De'Aaron Fox $55+ million a season?

[td4mvp2k]

id rather trade down 14 with nets and also get cam johnson.. makes sense

[SpursFan86]

Serious question: Would Spurs fans be more ok paying KD or De'Aaron Fox $55+ million a season?

For the upcoming season I’d rather have KD, but beyond that give me Fox. I will admit I’m a little hesitant about giving Fox a max extension but I think it’s pretty much a given we’re going that route given the way things played out with him borderline forcing his way here.

[RC_Drunkford]

I just heard a wild rumor tbh. I don't put too much stock in this, but this guy has made a bunch of accurate predicitons before:


Spurs, Suns, Nets and Hawks are discussing a 4-team deal.

Spurs trade #2 to the Nets for Cam Johnson, #8 and additional picks

Spurs trade for KD

Spurs also want Okongwu from the Hawks

Apparently EVERYBODY not named Wemby, Fox or Castle is on the table in these negotiations. If the Spurs draft Harper something went really wrong.


take that how you want it.

[Ice009]

I wonder what the additional picks would be. What picks does Brooklyn have? I remember Harper's dad mentioning Knicks picks which I wouldn't really be interested in at all.

Crazy that they want to deal with the Hawks as I assume the Hawks would want at least one of their picks back. Okongwu would be very interesting.
Only coming away with the number 8 pick in the draft, you'd think they would want someone like VJ Edgecombe or Tre Johnson if they don't take Harper at No. 2. I wonder who their target would be at No. 8?

Very surprised that they're that interested in Cam Johnson.

KD, I also wonder what they'd be willing to pay him on an extension?

When you say it's a "wild rumor," are you saying it's completely made up and this guy sometimes gets stuff right, or does this guy usually have some sources he hears stuff from?

[scott]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GsZ9LleW8AAJ4rn?format=jpg&name=medium

Was curious how the rest of the Spurs measured up with this stat. These are all our guys with at least 500 FGA defensed

Wemby - 42.7
Sochan - 46.2
Fox - 47.6
Castle - 47.9
Champ - 47.9
CP3 - 48.6
Keldon - 49.0
Devin - 49.6
Barnes - 50.4

I would have thought Sochan would be higher, honestly. He ranks around 60th percentile.

[SpursFan86]

I just heard a wild rumor tbh. I don't put too much stock in this, but this guy has made a bunch of accurate predicitons before:


Spurs, Suns, Nets and Hawks are discussing a 4-team deal.

Spurs trade #2 to the Nets for Cam Johnson, #8 and additional picks

Spurs trade for KD

Spurs also want Okongwu from the Hawks

Apparently EVERYBODY not named Wemby, Fox or Castle is on the table in these negotiations. If the Spurs draft Harper something went really wrong.


take that how you want it.

Ehh I’m not buying it at all. Sounds like an armchair GM on the internet…just very hard to imagine the Spurs shaking things up that dramatically overnight after the way they’ve operated for nearly 3 decades.

I don’t doubt they’re discussing moving #2. But pretty much blowing up their existing core outside of the 3 guys you mentioned sounds extremely unlikely. Moving any of Vassell/Keldon/Sochan/Barnes/etc is of course in play, but all of them? Would be a complete 360 from their normal MO.

[BacktoBasics]

I just heard a wild rumor tbh. I don't put too much stock in this, but this guy has made a bunch of accurate predicitons before:


Spurs, Suns, Nets and Hawks are discussing a 4-team deal.

Spurs trade #2 to the Nets for Cam Johnson, #8 and additional picks

Spurs trade for KD

Spurs also want Okongwu from the Hawks

Apparently EVERYBODY not named Wemby, Fox or Castle is on the table in these negotiations. If the Spurs draft Harper something went really wrong.


take that how you want it.


Spurs trade #2 to the Nets for Cam Johnson, #8 and additional picks

I would be disappointed in this. We can absolutely fill out our roster without having to give up the 2nd pick. Harper has too much potential to pass up in my opinion.

[Ice009]

Ehh I’m not buying it at all. Sounds like an armchair GM on the internet…just very hard to imagine the Spurs shaking things up that dramatically overnight after the way they’ve operated for nearly 3 decades.

I don’t doubt they’re discussing moving #2. But pretty much blowing up their existing core outside of the 3 guys you mentioned sounds extremely unlikely. Moving any of Vassell/Keldon/Sochan/Barnes/etc is of course in play, but all of them? Would be a complete 360 from their normal MO.

It mentioned they're all on the table, I don't take that to mean that they'd all be moved. Whoever those teams want to make the deal work, is how I'm reading/taking it, but then again I haven't added up salaries (I'll leave that to the experts here) to see if all of them need to be moved.


I would be disappointed in this. We can absolutely fill out our roster without having to give up the 2nd pick. Harper has too much potential to pass up in my opinion.

It really depends on what those additional picks would be. Does Brooklyn have any of their own picks? I think Brooklyn would be a lottery team for a while, so additional pick/s could be interesting (it really depends who they're from I guess).

[scott]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1Z0u09Awe8

Thought this video was funny, wanted to share.

Love the "HS Student Creating his Final Presentation on Canva" production vibe of this video :lol

[sfernald]

I just heard a wild rumor tbh. I don't put too much stock in this, but this guy has made a bunch of accurate predicitons before:


Spurs, Suns, Nets and Hawks are discussing a 4-team deal.

Spurs trade #2 to the Nets for Cam Johnson, #8 and additional picks

Spurs trade for KD

Spurs also want Okongwu from the Hawks

Apparently EVERYBODY not named Wemby, Fox or Castle is on the table in these negotiations. If the Spurs draft Harper something went really wrong.


take that how you want it.

Holy shit. Doesn’t sound like a spurs move honestly. We better win at least reach Okc in playoffs next year.

[scott]

I just heard a wild rumor tbh. I don't put too much stock in this, but this guy has made a bunch of accurate predicitons before:


Spurs, Suns, Nets and Hawks are discussing a 4-team deal.

Spurs trade #2 to the Nets for Cam Johnson, #8 and additional picks

Spurs trade for KD

Spurs also want Okongwu from the Hawks

Apparently EVERYBODY not named Wemby, Fox or Castle is on the table in these negotiations. If the Spurs draft Harper something went really wrong.


take that how you want it.

Seems uncharacteristic of the Spurs and Wright to make sure a dramatic shake up in one summer. Theoretically, our new lineup would be Fox-Castle-Cam-KD-Wemby with Okongwu as a backup 5 and then who knows what else coming off the bench... KD+Cam+Okongwu is also $90.2MM incoming salary so we'd have to send out Devin + Keldon + Barnes + Sochan + one of Wesley/Branham/Champ.

This one seems like a bit of a stretch?

[mo7888]

I just heard a wild rumor tbh. I don't put too much stock in this, but this guy has made a bunch of accurate predicitons before:


Spurs, Suns, Nets and Hawks are discussing a 4-team deal.

Spurs trade #2 to the Nets for Cam Johnson, #8 and additional picks

Spurs trade for KD

Spurs also want Okongwu from the Hawks

Apparently EVERYBODY not named Wemby, Fox or Castle is on the table in these negotiations. If the Spurs draft Harper something went really wrong.


take that how you want it.

Was anything said about what Phoenix was getting out of the deal?

[RC_Drunkford]

I wonder what the additional picks would be. What picks does Brooklyn have? I remember Harper's dad mentioning Knicks picks which I wouldn't really be interested in at all.

Crazy that they want to deal with the Hawks as I assume the Hawks would want at least one of their picks back. Okongwu would be very interesting.
Only coming away with the number 8 pick in the draft, you'd think they would want someone like VJ Edgecombe or Tre Johnson if they don't take Harper at No. 2. I wonder who their target would be at No. 8?

Very surprised that they're that interested in Cam Johnson.

KD, I also wonder what they'd be willing to pay him on an extension?

When you say it's a "wild rumor," are you saying it's completely made up and this guy sometimes gets stuff right, or does this guy usually have some sources he hears stuff from?

I mean he predicted mutual interest between the Spurs and KD in February at the trade deadline. He also predicted that the price for KD is low. He also predicted that the Spurs will fleece the Kings for Fox.

That doesn't mean I believe him, but the #2 being on the table rumor does seem to have a lot of legs, because multiple people are talking about it.

Y'all gotta understand the leverage the Spurs have in this free agency. There will be major player movement in the league and the Spurs hold the best cards by having #2 and #14. They could do deals with the Nets, Jazz or Pelicans and ask for a haul. All teams that have extra draft capital and front court pieces that would fit on our team.

If I'm Brian Wright and I look at this from an asset management standpoint:

- I don't have any extra future first rounders
- I have to package picks to add players because most of them won't hit free agency anymore

if I keep #2:

I draft Dylan Harper - probably a future All-Star/All-NBA guard who has to accept a lesser role on our team, while we already have an elite guard tandem.
And with #14 I draft a role player.

or I trade #2 and #14 for:

-a high level starter/fringe All-Star (Cam Johnson, Trey Murphy, Herb Jones, Lauri Markkanen, John Collins, etc.)
-a pick that's still in the top 10 to add an elite rookie (Maluach, Jakucionas, Essengue, Tre Johnson, etc.)
-extra picks that I can package to add KD
-a late first to draft a role player who fell (McNeeley, Fleming, Sorber, Penda, Clifford)
-and maybe even another future first or swap

that's enticing. Especially when you nail the Top 10 pick and draft someone who becomes a future All-Star. Like if you trade #2 and draft Essengue at #8 and he becomes an All-Star caliber forward. Or Maluach becomes a Gobert level center. Or Jakucionas becomes a player close to Harper's level, etc.

That would be a better haul than just drafting Harper. It would also be risky, but if you hit on the gamble...sheesh.

[DPG21920]

I just heard a wild rumor tbh. I don't put too much stock in this, but this guy has made a bunch of accurate predicitons before:


Spurs, Suns, Nets and Hawks are discussing a 4-team deal.

Spurs trade #2 to the Nets for Cam Johnson, #8 and additional picks

Spurs trade for KD

Spurs also want Okongwu from the Hawks

Apparently EVERYBODY not named Wemby, Fox or Castle is on the table in these negotiations. If the Spurs draft Harper something went really wrong.


take that how you want it.

Awful. Trading pick 2 for 8+Cam is a nightmare and fireable offense.

[DPG21920]

And if what you say is true (KD is cheap) then it would NOT require trading pick 2 to get him.

SA has ATL pick, their own picks etc…if KD is cheap, zero reason to trade pick 2 to help get KD; Spurs already have enough to do so right now with pick 14 + ATL 27 to do this.

[RC_Drunkford]

Was anything said about what Phoenix was getting out of the deal?

no, but one scenario could be to get the Nets to ship Claxton to Phoenix. Devin to ATL would be "doing righty by him", although the salary doesn't quite match here.


Seems uncharacteristic of the Spurs and Wright to make sure a dramatic shake up in one summer. Theoretically, our new lineup would be Fox-Castle-Cam-KD-Wemby with Okongwu as a backup 5 and then who knows what else coming off the bench... KD+Cam+Okongwu is also $90.2MM incoming salary so we'd have to send out Devin + Keldon + Barnes + Sochan + one of Wesley/Branham/Champ.

This one seems like a bit of a stretch?

I agree, I'm not saying I believe it, but #2 being on the table does seem to have legs. Also we only have 10 players under contract. I said before Devin, Keldon, Barnes, Branham and Blake should all be on the table. Champ and Jeremy are on good deals, so I assume they would like to keep them, but I don't think they would be deal breakers.

[DPG21920]

I do agree Dev + Keldon + Sochan all on table (clearly Branham + Blake are)

[RC_Drunkford]

And if what you say is true (KD is cheap) then it would NOT require trading pick 2 to get him.

SA has ATL pick, their own picks etc…if KD is cheap, zero reason to trade pick 2 to help get KD; Spurs already have enough to do so right now with pick 14 + ATL 27 to do this.

I never said they are trading #2 for KD. I'm saying they are doing a bunch of deals.


Awful. Trading pick 2 for 8+Cam is a nightmare and fireable offense.

depends on how many picks you are getting. What if the Nets offer you #8, #19, #27 and a future Knicks pick?

[SpursFan86]

I do agree Dev + Keldon + Sochan all on table (clearly Branham + Blake are)

For sure…I don’t think anyone needs a source to tell them that pretty much any of those guys are available for the right deal.

I also think it’s almost a certainty that they’re entertaining the idea of trading #2.

It’s just the idea of them doing all of these things at once that seems super unlikely IMO.

If the Spurs aren’t super high on Harper then it would be dumb not to capitalize on whichever FO does view him as a franchise cornerstone…I just don’t necessarily trust our FO to be smarter/have better judgment then everyone else at this point :lol It’s even worse if they’re looking to trade #2 mostly due to fit concerns.

[scott]

Here is your Completely Unhinged Trade Idea of the Day.

Brian Wright wakes up and has switched bodies with Nico Harrison, like in the plot of Freaky Friday. So Nico is now essentially our GM and wants to go all in on Veteran Experience. Spurs go for KD and Giannis. Of course, it requires them sending out basically the entire team.

https://i.imgur.com/44r9Z65.jpeg

[SpursFan86]

What if the Nets offer you #8, #19, #27 and a future Knicks pick?

I’m saying absolutely not, tbh. Harper is like a top 3 guard prospect in the past 5 years? Maybe top 10 PG prospect going back 15-20 years? Passing up on that for #8/19/27 and a future Knicks pick would be terrible.

I sound like a broken record at this point, but obviously if the Spurs don’t think Harper is as good as the consensus of scouts/other teams thinks he is then sure, take the best offer you can get. But if we’re just viewing Harper as how the consensus does, then it’d be incredibly foolish to do the package you just described.

[DPG21920]

I never said they are trading #2 for KD. I'm saying they are doing a bunch of deals.



depends on how many picks you are getting. What if the Nets offer you #8, #19, #27 and a future Knicks pick?



Still an awful trade. A bunch of mid picks (and a future pick you’d pray would be as good as pick 2 anyways) plus a good but replaceable role player?

Im saying you dont need to trade 2 period if your goal is to get KD. If KD is cheap, you keep pick 2 and make a trade for KD still.


You dont need other assets in a deal for 2 to get KD so what’s the point of trading pick 2 then when you can get KD and keep pick 2?

[scott]

I agree, I'm not saying I believe it, but #2 being on the table does seem to have legs. Also we only have 10 players under contract. I said before Devin, Keldon, Barnes, Branham and Blake should all be on the table. Champ and Jeremy are on good deals, so I assume they would like to keep them, but I don't think they would be deal breakers.

Yeah honestly the idea of the Spurs being open to moving #2 makes me a little queasy... I'm hoping it's all just media speculation and fan rumors and that Brian and RC are sitting in their office watching Dylan Harper videos and reading trade proposals and laughing their asses off while Holt's niece sits in the corner designing our next shitty alternate jersey with HARPER #2 on it.

[DPG21920]

For sure…I don’t think anyone needs a source to tell them that pretty much any of those guys are available for the right deal.

I also think it’s almost a certainty that they’re entertaining the idea of trading #2.

It’s just the idea of them doing all of these things at once that seems super unlikely IMO.

If the Spurs aren’t super high on Harper then it would be dumb not to capitalize on whichever FO does view him as a franchise cornerstone…I just don’t necessarily trust our FO to be smarter/have better judgment then everyone else at this point :lol It’s even worse if they’re looking to trade #2 mostly due to fit concerns.

Sure - im operating under the initial premise that SA values Harper as a prospect very highly regardless of fit with Fox/Castle. IF that’s not the case? Ok. Would be a big gamble obviously but I trust the FO.

But even in that scenario where SA feels Harper is not their favorite prospect, I still dont love 2 for Cam + 8 + 19 + 27 + NY 1st. Thats too many picks right now in this draft IMO (spurs could obviously do other trades and get future firsts or consolidate and move up from 8 to 4 using 8+19 or something?) and I dont love having to do more work if you are the team giving up the best asset.

Im ok with trading pick 2, but I dont like not getting a legit young all star back or a player like Giannis. If you can get that? I see it. But a role player + mid pick volume doesnt cut it IMO

[DPG21920]

Here is your Completely Unhinged Trade Idea of the Day.

Brian Wright wakes up and has switched bodies with Nico Harrison, like in the plot of Freaky Friday. So Nico is now essentially our GM and wants to go all in on Veteran Experience. Spurs go for KD and Giannis. Of course, it requires them sending out basically the entire team.

https://i.imgur.com/44r9Z65.jpeg

I literally hate this deal so much I cannot find the words.

[scott]

I literally hate this deal so much I cannot find the words.

This is the proper response, tbh :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

Still an awful trade. A bunch of mid picks (and a future pick you’d pray would be as good as pick 2 anyways) plus a good but replaceable role player?

Im saying you dont need to trade 2 period if your goal is to get KD. If KD is cheap, you keep pick 2 and make a trade for KD still.


You dont need other assets in a deal for 2 to get KD so what’s the point of trading pick 2 then when you can get KD and keep pick 2?

Yeah I get it. It obviously only makes sense if the Spurs come out of this looking even better than in the scenario where they would add Harper. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. All I'm saying is, they might have another guy in the top 10 who they think could become a future All-Star.

[Kevin]

The Spurs will only trade the 2 if it lands them the 1. Odd's of that happening are probably 1.0%. You never know with Nico.

[RC_Drunkford]

I would hate giving up the #2 for that :lol

https://i.ibb.co/DHjzfhs6/tradededed.jpg

[sfernald]

Well we ain’t got one of those.

[DPG21920]

Yeah I get it. It obviously only makes sense if the Spurs come out of this looking even better than in the scenario where they would add Harper. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. All I'm saying is, they might have another guy in the top 10 who they think could become a future All-Star.

What I would prefer then is use pick 14 + something else to get that guy. If you love another guy as well or as much, keep 2 and use pick 14 + a future first and move to 8-10 and get him as well!

[RC_Drunkford]

I gotta say Okongwu is a really nice target.

24 years old, 6'10'' with a 7'2'' wingspan. Got 3 years left on a cheap deal 15/16/17. Can play backup C and PF next to Wemby. Good defender, roller and shotblocker. Can guard strong centers in the post. Lob finisher. Shot 33% from 3 on 2 attempts. Has a midrange game. Averaged 13 PPG and 9 boards in 28 minutes last season. Owning ATL picks can certainly help here.

[DPG21920]

Yeah I get it. It obviously only makes sense if the Spurs come out of this looking even better than in the scenario where they would add Harper. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. All I'm saying is, they might have another guy in the top 10 who they think could become a future All-Star.

What I would prefer then is use pick 14 + something else to get that guy. If you love another guy as well or as much, keep 2 and use pick 14 + a future first and move to 8-10 and get him as well!

[mo7888]

I gotta say Okongwu is a really nice target.

24 years old, 6'10'' with a 7'2'' wingspan. Got 3 years left on a cheap deal 15/16/17. Can play backup C and PF next to Wemby. Good defender, roller and shotblocker. Can guard strong centers in the post. Lob finisher. Shot 33% from 3 on 2 attempts. Has a midrange game. Averaged 13 PPG and 9 boards in 28 minutes last season. Owning ATL picks can certainly help here.

I like him alot too. I've been trying to figure out what we give up in this deal for him though. He's not worth both Atlanta assets, but is he worth one? Or would we just be shifting some of the Brooklyn assets there and holding on to the Atlanta assets.

It's pretty intriguing to think about..

[exstatic]

I gotta say Okongwu is a really nice target.

24 years old, 6'10'' with a 7'2'' wingspan. Got 3 years left on a cheap deal 15/16/17. Can play backup C and PF next to Wemby. Good defender, roller and shotblocker. Can guard strong centers in the post. Lob finisher. Shot 33% from 3 on 2 attempts. Has a midrange game. Averaged 13 PPG and 9 boards in 28 minutes last season. Owning ATL picks can certainly help here.

Okongwu is listed as 6’8”, and that would be in shoes. A backup? Remind me again why we would put #2 into this trade. Remind me why ATL is putting their only center into the deal.

[Bruno]

What I've read on a Hawks board is that Spurs were interested in a Keldon + Barnes + Hawks picks back to Atlanta (with some protections) for Jalen Johnson. It was said that Spurs wanted to keep Vassell.

[Ice009]

When you say Hawks picks back with protections, do you mean the Spurs could send their outright picks back and add lottery protection to them? For example, the Spurs keep them if the fall within the top 3 or 4 (what protections would you add?) and Hawks get them back if they're outside the top 4? Can you add protections on a swap at all?

[k830713]

https://fanspo.com/nba/s/spurs/trades/YwNmF6k0XZQb2E/spurs-jazz

[RC_Drunkford]

Okongwu is listed as 6’8”, and that would be in shoes. A backup? Remind me again why we would put #2 into this trade. Remind me why ATL is putting their only center into the deal.

maybe you should learn how to read. I know it's not your strong suit. Nobody said we'll trade #2 for Okongwu. We could trade Devin for Okongwu and give ATL 27 back or the 26 swap or none of it and send them other teams picks instead (which would be my favorite option).

He's 6'8'' on bballref. He's 6'10'' on nba.com, RealGM, ESPN and Foxsports. He's 6'9'' on hoopshype. You go research how tall he really is if you don't have nothing better to do. I certainly don't give a fuck if he's 6'8'' or 6'10'' as long as I know that he can protect the rim.

[RC_Drunkford]

What I've read on a Hawks board is that Spurs were interested in a Keldon + Barnes + Hawks picks back to Atlanta (with some protections) for Jalen Johnson. It was said that Spurs wanted to keep Vassell.

that would be even crazier. Question is, if it's legit. Jalen Johnson is basically off limits for ATL.

They are now talking about trading for Giannis and trying to hire his agent, but lack the assets to make that deal if you ask me.



https://fanspo.com/nba/s/spurs/trades/YwNmF6k0XZQb2E/spurs-jazz

only a Jazz fan would think that's a good trade :lol

Add getting Giannis for Sochan straight up if you think that's realistic...

[Bruno]

When you say Hawks picks back with protections, do you mean the Spurs could send their outright picks back and add lottery protection to them? For example Spurs keep them if the fall in the top 3 or 4 (what protections would you add?)? Can you add protections on a swap at all?

It could be something like:
2026: Swap canceled unless Hawks' pick is in the top4 then Spurs can swap the pick.
2027: Hawks pick back to them. If it's top4 than Spurs keep the pick and trade a future first round pick to Atlanta.

[exstatic]

maybe you should learn how to read. I know it's not your strong suit. Nobody said we'll trade #2 for Okongwu. We could trade Devin for Okongwu and give ATL 27 back or the 26 swap or none of it and send them other teams picks instead (which would be my favorite option).

He's 6'8'' on bballref. He's 6'10'' on nba.com, RealGM, ESPN and Foxsports. He's 6'9'' on hoopshype. You go research how tall he really is if you don't have nothing better to do. I certainly don't give a fuck if he's 6'8'' or 6'10'' as long as I know that he can protect the rim.

The post I quoted looked like one giant trade that did include #2, and Okongwu. If that’s not the case, then I’ll pick out the Nets portion and say THAT is shit.

[TD 21]

Cam Johnson for Keldon Johnson would make the rotation make a lot more since but that's just me.

Agreed. Although a forward tandem of Barnes and Johnson would be weak defensively and rebounding wise and Johnson in both appearance and personality is a central casting Spur, what incentive would the Nets, said to be initially seeking 2 1sts for him and already in possession of 19, 26 and 27 to get into the 14 range if they so choose, have to make this trade?

And if Johnson comes in, but 2 or Vassell don't go out, how would the rotation work?



I mean he predicted mutual interest between the Spurs and KD in February at the trade deadline. He also predicted that the price for KD is low. He also predicted that the Spurs will fleece the Kings for Fox.

That doesn't mean I believe him, but the #2 being on the table rumor does seem to have a lot of legs, because multiple people are talking about it.

-a high level starter/fringe All-Star (Cam Johnson, Trey Murphy, Herb Jones, Lauri Markkanen, John Collins, etc.)
-a pick that's still in the top 10 to add an elite rookie (Maluach, Jakucionas, Essengue, Tre Johnson, etc.)
-extra picks that I can package to add KD
-a late first to draft a role player who fell (McNeeley, Fleming, Sorber, Penda, Clifford)
-and maybe even another future first or swap

that's enticing. Especially when you nail the Top 10 pick and draft someone who becomes a future All-Star. Like if you trade #2 and draft Essengue at #8 and he becomes an All-Star caliber forward. Or Maluach becomes a Gobert level center. Or Jakucionas becomes a player close to Harper's level, etc.

That would be a better haul than just drafting Harper. It would also be risky, but if you hit on the gamble...sheesh.

Who? None of those things were difficult to predict.

The only way I could see this, is if they're not overly high on Harper or think there isn't a massive gap between him and insert trade down target or Harper/his representation send signals that he prefers to have his "own" team.

I don't see them doing something like this just based off fit + replenishing draft capital from the Fox trade.

By the way, Okongwu is about 6'8'' barefoot, so roughly 6'9'' in shoes. Barring a drastic overpay, can't see the Hawks moving him. They probably think they're not that far off of a puncher's chance at a Pacers like run with the East being in flux.

[R. DeMurre]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GsZ9LleW8AAJ4rn?format=jpg&name=medium


The name that catches my eye on that list is Jaquez Jr... he seems to have fallen out of favor in Miami, and has 2 years left on his rookie contract. If the Spurs can grab him for added depth without giving up too much, i think it'd be a nice move. He's one of those versatile high IQ guys that's nice to have around.

[Ice009]

It could be something like:
2026: Swap canceled unless Hawks' pick is in the top4 then Spurs can swap the pick.
2027: Hawks pick back to them. If it's top4 than Spurs keep the pick and trade a future first round pick to Atlanta.

Alright, thanks, Bruno, that is pretty clear. That also sounds good to me. I don't think Atlanta would do it, though.

[cd021]

For the upcoming season I’d rather have KD, but beyond that give me Fox. I will admit I’m a little hesitant about giving Fox a max extension but I think it’s pretty much a given we’re going that route given the way things played out with him borderline forcing his way here.

Giving $55 million to a 27 year old point guard who's made an all-star team would be the safer choice, though KD might be more worth it considering that he is still elite on both sides of the ball. Fox doesn't have the injury history and is nine years younger so its probably a toss up.

[R. DeMurre]

What I've read on a Hawks board is that Spurs were interested in a Keldon + Barnes + Hawks picks back to Atlanta (with some protections) for Jalen Johnson. It was said that Spurs wanted to keep Vassell.


I would do that in a second. Jalen has done nothing but improve every year he's been in the NBA, and even if he stays at last year's level he'd be an incredible complement to Wemby. If he gets even better (he's only 23) he would be a legit star. His averages last year were 18.9pts, 10 reb, 5 assists, 1.6 steals, & 1 block per game. The points might go down, but those rebound/assist/stocks numbers are too nice to ignore. My first impulse was to think there's NO WAY Atlanta considers this, but then I remembered they're Atlanta, and actually think they could win a title some day with Trae Young as their star.

[cd021]

Agreed. Although a forward tandem of Barnes and Johnson would be weak defensively and rebounding wise and Johnson in both appearance and personality is a central casting Spur, what incentive would the Nets, said to be initially seeking 2 1sts for him and already in possession of 19, 26 and 27 to get into the 14 range if they so choose, have to make this trade?

And if Johnson comes in, but 2 or Vassell don't go out, how would the rotation work?

I'm not sure CJ is worth two firsts. My idea was CJ and 26 or 27 for KJ and the 14th pick. Spurs would essentially be trading back 12 or 13 spots, still getting a first, and swapping out a ill-fitting player for a better option. Rebounding would be a concern, but I'm not as worried about defense.

I mentioned earlier that many of the Spurs' lineups that featured Barnes were actually very good defensively and terrific offensively. Pretty much every lineup that he played in that logged more than 100 minutes together was at least +11 in net rating. Obviously, that's the Wembanyama effect defensively and many of those lineups had at least one other good defender playing alongside him and Barnes.

I think putting Cam Johnson in the Barnes role next season could produce even better results since he's a better offensive player. I would be concerned that the Spurs would just roll with a Barnes and Sochan backup four and five rotation but that would probably be the move with them still signing a depth piece at the five or at least drafting one. I think Harper probably plays backup to both Fox and Castle, Champagnie backs up Vassell, Barnes, backs up Cam Johnson and Sochan at the five.

[baseline bum]

depends on how many picks you are getting. What if the Nets offer you #8, #19, #27 and a future Knicks pick?

I tell them to go fuck their mothers some more and keep their grab bag of crap.

[Splits]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GsZ9LleW8AAJ4rn?format=jpg&name=medium

I'd like to see these numbers calculated with all the shot that weren't taken because of their defender counted as misses.

[baseline bum]

Yeah honestly the idea of the Spurs being open to moving #2 makes me a little queasy... I'm hoping it's all just media speculation and fan rumors and that Brian and RC are sitting in their office watching Dylan Harper videos and reading trade proposals and laughing their asses off while Holt's niece sits in the corner designing our next shitty alternate jersey with HARPER #2 on it.

You coming around to my view that it would be really hard to get good value for Harper in a trade short of landing Giannis? Also Holt's niece would probably be rubbing one out in the corner to those Harper videos.

[cd021]

Awful. Trading pick 2 for 8+Cam is a nightmare and fireable offense.

Honestly, it would depend on the picks. If it's Cam Johnson, 8, 19, and two future firsts then its a discussion.

I'm not sure about Cam Johnson and KD though. I wanted either, not both but I assume that Barnes, Vassell, and Keldon would all be moved in that 4-way deal as well as at least a couple of those aforementioned picks.

[CGD]

https://fanspo.com/nba/s/spurs/trades/YwNmF6k0XZQb2E/spurs-jazz

Just stop.

[CGD]

It could be something like:
2026: Swap canceled unless Hawks' pick is in the top4 then Spurs can swap the pick.
2027: Hawks pick back to them. If it's top4 than Spurs keep the pick and trade a future first round pick to Atlanta.

This would make me highly suspicious given how much they have pumped up Jalen Johnson as the guy they want to build around. Not terrible on paper though.

[cd021]

I never said they are trading #2 for KD. I'm saying they are doing a bunch of deals.



depends on how many picks you are getting. What if the Nets offer you #8, #19, #27 and a future Knicks pick?

I don't think moving the number 2 pick should be completely off the table but only if it sets the Spurs up in the long run. 8, 19, and two distant firsts and maybe even a pick swap while we're at it. That would probably warrant a serious discussion, and would ultimately come down to how sure the Spurs are in Harper.

[CGD]

Trade idea of the day (based on Giannis to TOR rumors)

TOR: Giannis; Keldon
MIL: Scottie Barnes; Vassell + Picks via TOR
SAS: Jakob; Barrett

[scott]

You coming around to my view that it would be really hard to get good value for Harper in a trade short of landing Giannis?

Actually I think it would be really easy to get good value. I bet teams would line up some really attractive offers. I just prefer having Harper.

But I definitely don't want the guys who drafted Joshua Primo at 12 to start getting cute with ideas on who they think is really the best player at #2.

[scott]

Trade idea of the day (based on Giannis to TOR rumors)

TOR: Giannis; Keldon
MIL: Scottie Barnes; Vassell + Picks via TOR
SAS: Jakob; Barrett

I like this. Saves us two years of Vassell's deal and IMO RJ would be a better fit as bench scorer than Vassell or he could be our starting SF. Jakob would obviously be a fantastic backup starting C, and Keldon is superfluous at this point. Jak probably opts into his player option in 26-27.

[baseline bum]

Actually I think it would be really easy to get good value. I bet teams would line up some really attractive offers. I just prefer having Harper.

But I definitely don't want the guys who drafted Joshua Primo at 12 to start getting cute with ideas on who they think is really the best player at #2.

I think it would be really hard. With Bailey so underwhelming there isn't a trade down scenario I like at all.

[Chinook]

if that's the salary for his extension, I'm out

1929904245156847881

Wright looks like an idiot for having traded Zach last year right now.

[Ice009]

Wright looks like an idiot for having traded Zach last year right now.

What? He was supposed to hold onto him for the off chance there might be an article/tweet saying the Suns want a Center.

[spurraider21]

i know ST isnt a big fan due to his salary, but if Denver wants to trade MPJ into more digestible contracts, i wonder if it could be done for Keldon + Barnes + some seconds.

Barnes gives them at least a serviceable replacement for what MPJ does while on an expiring deal, and Keldon is a reasonable salary player who they can also later trade for cap savings.there wouldnt be too much of a market for MPJ given his salary, and his contract expires before Wemby's extension would kick in

at this point MPJ is still a high end release valve offensively. he's not a defender, but its not like Barnes was doing much on that end either. and MPJ is a good rebounder at the 3, having averaged 7 per game last 2 years (barnes averaged 4 last year for us).

denver has absolutely no second round picks. every second rounder thru the 2031 draft have been traded away. they have also dealt away their 2027 and 2029 firsts. i think a handful of SRPs could be enticing to them more than other teams

[Excessive Egotist]

https://fanspo.com/nba/s/spurs/trades/YwNmF6k0XZQb2E/spurs-jazz

This doesn't make sense; there isn't enough value coming back. Even on an expiring contract, Collins is, at best, neutral value.


If we trade with the Jazz, it should be something like Markkanen and the 5th pick for the 2nd pick, or the 2nd pick for Kessler, picks 5 and 21, plus a valuable future unprotected first-round pick. Perhaps the Spurs would need to send back a favorable future swap or something similar. There's a significant gap in talent between picks 2 and 5 in this draft.


The most likely outcome is that the Spurs keep the pick and instead pursue a player like Naz Reid via a sign-and-trade, then use their exception money to fill remaining roster holes.

Harper is a very good prospect; the Spurs won't move off of him unless they receive a significant return.

[CGD]

Wright looks like an idiot for having traded Zach last year right now.

Kewl and all, but who’s the center they’re acquiring via a KD trade. KAT? Bam?

[CGD]

I like this. Saves us two years of Vassell's deal and IMO RJ would be a better fit as bench scorer than Vassell or he could be our starting SF. Jakob would obviously be a fantastic backup starting C, and Keldon is superfluous at this point. Jak probably opts into his player option in 26-27.

That’s the thinking. There is also some swap your misfit for mine possibilities at the margins too if they want to expand it slightly (eg Maliki for Abaji).

[Chinook]

Kewl and all, but who’s the center they’re acquiring via a KD trade. KAT? Bam?

Not Bam. Miami wouldn't trade Bam for Booker. Could be Porzingas in a three-team trade. Maybe Vuc. Or they can try to sign a center instead of trading for one.

[spurraider21]

coming from a local phoenix guy

1930069126157853143

[exstatic]

Wright looks like an idiot for having traded Zach last year right now.

I mean, he was having an objectively good year, and all.

[baseline bum]

i know ST isnt a big fan due to his salary, but if Denver wants to trade MPJ into more digestible contracts, i wonder if it could be done for Keldon + Barnes + some seconds.

Barnes gives them at least a serviceable replacement for what MPJ does while on an expiring deal, and Keldon is a reasonable salary player who they can also later trade for cap savings.there wouldnt be too much of a market for MPJ given his salary, and his contract expires before Wemby's extension would kick in

at this point MPJ is still a high end release valve offensively. he's not a defender, but its not like Barnes was doing much on that end either. and MPJ is a good rebounder at the 3, having averaged 7 per game last 2 years (barnes averaged 4 last year for us).

denver has absolutely no second round picks. every second rounder thru the 2031 draft have been traded away. they have also dealt away their 2027 and 2029 firsts. i think a handful of SRPs could be enticing to them more than other teams

Damn would that be nice, but can't see Denver doing it when even if Saric and Westbrook don't opt out they're about $7 million under the second apron with 13 roster spots filled.

[spurraider21]

Damn would that be nice, but can't see Denver doing it when even if Saric and Westbrook don't opt out they're about $7 million under the second apron with 13 roster spots filled.
This helps them salary wise. They shed a little and are filling 2 roster spots with said money instead of 1. I don’t know how hot the market will be for MPJ but we could give them 3-4 second rounders to placate

[TeKu]

Yeah honestly the idea of the Spurs being open to moving #2 makes me a little queasy... I'm hoping it's all just media speculation and fan rumors and that Brian and RC are sitting in their office watching Dylan Harper videos and reading trade proposals and laughing their asses off while Holt's niece sits in the corner designing our next shitty alternate jersey with HARPER #2 on it.

Or, keeping #2 on the table (with no intention of ever moving it) widens the trade possibilities for #14/future picks as teams are willing to discuss more players.

[baseline bum]

This helps them salary wise. They shed a little and are filling 2 roster spots with said money instead of 1. I don’t know how hot the market will be for MPJ but we could give them 3-4 second rounders to placate

I'd definitely make the offer and hope the owner is that desperate to get out of the first apron in a year. Just wouldn't expect to get a bite when casting that line.

[RC_Drunkford]

Kewl and all, but who’s the center they’re acquiring via a KD trade. KAT? Bam?

Vassell to Cavs
Allen and Barnes to Suns
KD to Spurs


Vassell to Nets
Claxton and Barnes to Suns
KD to Spurs

Vucevic and Porzingis are the other options. Or the Suns think they can draft a starting C with our #14 pick. Raynaud, Sorber, CMB

[Em-City]

What? He was supposed to hold onto him for the off chance there might be an article/tweet saying the Suns want a Center.

He forgot the Blue font

[RC_Drunkford]

inject this into my roster

https://i.ibb.co/mVc5dSqy/traderere.jpg

[Kevin]

The Spurs true title contending window is still three years away in a stacked western conference. Decent chance Giannis ends up in the west which only make it more stacked.

After getting the 2nd pick the Spurs really play the long game and punt on the 14 for more future draft capitol and pass on KD. That said if all it takes is Dev/Keldon and the 14 plus second rounders I'd do it.

[vy65]

Behold, my masterpiece:

Suns:
FVV
2025 FRP #10
2027 FRP Best of BKN/PHX
2029 FRP Best of DAL/PHX/HOU

Rockets:
Giannis

Spurs:
KD

Bucks:
Devin Vassell
Keldon Johnson
Reed Sheppard
Jock Londale
Nate Williams
2025 FRP #14
2026 Best of SAS/ATL
2027 FRP PHX

Phoenix does it because they are getting considerable draft capital back for an expiring player. SA/Houston do it because obviously. Mil does it because they get an assortment of young players with upside (e.g., Reed) with considerable draft capital.

If Milwaukee bucks (get it) at this, then you could move one of the FRP going to PHX to them and maybe pack in some second rounders too, which would make their haul 3 young players + 4 FRP, with at least one (maybe 2, if you send them #10) lotto pick.

And if you think that Houston is getting too much out of this (which I kinda do), you can swap out Jock and Nate for Jabari Smith.

[exstatic]

Behold, my masterpiece:

Suns:
FVV
2025 FRP #10
2027 FRP Best of BKN/PHX
2029 FRP Best of DAL/PHX/HOU

Rockets:
Giannis

Spurs:
KD

Bucks:
Devin Vassell
Keldon Johnson
Reed Sheppard
Jock Londale
Nate Williams
2025 FRP #14
2026 Best of SAS/ATL
2027 FRP PHX

Phoenix does it because they are getting considerable draft capital back for an expiring player. SA/Houston do it because obviously. Mil does it because they get an assortment of young players with upside (e.g., Reed) with considerable draft capital.

If Milwaukee bucks (get it) at this, then you could move one of the FRP going to PHX to them and maybe pack in some second rounders too, which would make their haul 3 young players + 4 FRP, with at least one (maybe 2, if you send them #10) lotto pick.

You’re trading the same pick twice.

[vy65]

You’re trading the same pick twice.

That's weird, Fanspo is showing that double. Here's a better version:

Suns:
FVV
2025 FRP #10
2029 FRP Best of DAL/PHX/HOU

Rockets:
Giannis

Spurs:
KD

Bucks:
Devin Vassell
Keldon Johnson
Reed Sheppard
Jabari Smith Jr.
2025 FRP #14
2026 Best of SAS/ATL
2027 FRP Best of BKN/PHX

[RC_Drunkford]

The Spurs true title contending window is still three years away in a stacked western conference. Decent chance Giannis ends up in the west which only make it more stacked.

After getting the 2nd pick the Spurs really play the long game and punt on the 14 for more future draft capitol and pass on KD. That said if all it takes is Dev/Keldon and the 14 plus second rounders I'd do it.

The Spurs true title window starts in 2027. They will be fringe contenders with a punchers chance if everything goes their way next season.

Giannis won't come out west. It would be stupid. He can just stay in the East and D-Bo his way to the finals every year. My guess is he will go to the Raptors.

[LeBowen]

We're most definitely not giving up 2 FRPs for KD.
Suns have no SPRs between 2027 and 2031, expect some of ours to go their way if KD trade actually happens.

[mo7888]

inject this into my roster

https://i.ibb.co/mVc5dSqy/traderere.jpg

Yep, I'm taking that deal. Sign NAW and that team would make playoff noise next year.

[TekXX]

Let's see how good we are next season before estimating a "title window". I'll believe it when i see it that Wright and this F.O can open up a "title window" after what we've seen the last decade.

[scott]

Yep, I'm taking that deal. Sign NAW and that team would make playoff noise next year.

NAW and Jake round this roster out nicely.

Fox/Harper
Castle/NAW
LaRavia/Champ
KD/Sochan
Wemby/Okongwu

Not sure how that all looks cap wise… but that’s a nice team right there.

[Ignazzz]

That's weird, Fanspo is showing that double. Here's a better version:

Suns:
FVV
2025 FRP #10
2029 FRP Best of DAL/PHX/HOU

Rockets:
Giannis

Spurs:
KD

Bucks:
Devin Vassell
Keldon Johnson
Reed Sheppard
Jabari Smith Jr.
2025 FRP #14
2026 Best of SAS/ATL
2027 FRP Best of BKN/PHX

Bucks say no

[Splits]

NAW and Jake round this roster out nicely.

Fox/Harper
Castle/NAW
LaRavia/Champ
KD/Sochan
Wemby/Okongwu

Not sure how that all looks cap wise… but that’s a nice team right there.

Castle is a SF

[mo7888]

NAW and Jake round this roster out nicely.

Fox/Harper
Castle/NAW
LaRavia/Champ
KD/Sochan
Wemby/Okongwu

Not sure how that all looks cap wise… but that’s a nice team right there.

Im pretty sure that can be done cap-wise. I also think those are realistic pieces we could add.

[SpursFan86]

Im pretty sure that can be done cap-wise. I also think those are realistic pieces we could add.

That roster would be sick. Definitely turns us into a top 4 team in the West if healthy. Anyone here have B-Wright’s phone # to let him know what to do?

[RC_Drunkford]

NAW and Jake round this roster out nicely.

Fox/Harper
Castle/NAW
LaRavia/Champ
KD/Sochan
Wemby/Okongwu

Not sure how that all looks cap wise… but that’s a nice team right there.

I think we could get one, not both. NAW probably costs the whole 14.1 MLE which the Lakers will offer him too. LaRavia probably about 10 million. You can only choose one, unless we do another sign-and-trade which seems unlikely. Still a great roster.

[Chinook]

People really want the Spurs to play big and slow, and I think that's the opposite of what they will or should do.

With the talk of the Suns needing a center and the Spurs supposedly talking to the Hawks, I wonder if something like this is viable:

Spurs Receive: Durant, 22

Hawks Receive: Vassell, Barnes, 14, 38. the extinguishment of the 2026 swap, the right to swap whatever pick they get in 2027 with ATL27. two future seconds (2026 and 2028)

Suns Receive: Jalen Johnson, Okongwu

Spurs get Durant and keep the same number of firsts they already had

Hawks get a local kid at a position of need and control of their picks back

Suns get a center and a replacement forward with good potential

[exstatic]

People really want the Spurs to play big and slow, and I think that's the opposite of what they will or should do.

With the talk of the Suns needing a center and the Spurs supposedly talking to the Hawks, I wonder if something like this is viable:

Spurs Receive: Durant, 22

Hawks Receive: Vassell, Barnes, 14, 38. the extinguishment of the 2026 swap, the right to swap whatever pick they get in 2027 with ATL27. two future seconds (2026 and 2028)

Suns Receive: Jalen Johnson, Okongwu

Spurs get Durant and keep the same number of firsts they already had

Hawks get a local kid at a position of need and control of their picks back

Suns get a center and a replacement forward with good potential

Seems like we’re spending a lot of picks and swaps to make PHO better instead of flipping #14 plus salary. PHO is in a terrible spot, with Durant wanting SA, and had allegedly dropped his price sharply already. No need to overly complicate things.

[Chinook]

Seems like we’re spending a lot of picks and swaps to make PHO better instead of flipping #14 plus salary. PHO is in a terrible spot, with Durant wanting SA, and had allegedly dropped his price sharply already. No need to overly complicate things.

I don't disagree that his value dropped a lot. But it was extremely high before. 14 may be enough, but it's still within the range where it can be outbid. In this scenario the Spurs are maintaining their ability to make future deals at the expense of some of the upside of their 2025-2027 firsts.

I don't think the Spurs are overpaying. If anything, I'd more question if the Spurs should just cut the Suns out and take Johnson/Okongwu themselves.

[exstatic]

I don't disagree that his value dropped a lot. But it was extremely high before. 14 may be enough, but it's still within the range where it can be outbid. In this scenario the Spurs are maintaining their ability to make future deals at the expense of some of the upside of their 2025-2027 firsts.

I don't think the Spurs are overpaying. If anything, I'd more question if the Spurs should just cut the Suns out and take Johnson/Okongwu themselves.

There’s no bidding war if he wants to come here.

[pad300]

People really want the Spurs to play big and slow, and I think that's the opposite of what they will or should do.

With the talk of the Suns needing a center and the Spurs supposedly talking to the Hawks, I wonder if something like this is viable:

Spurs Receive: Durant, 22

Hawks Receive: Vassell, Barnes, 14, 38. the extinguishment of the 2026 swap, the right to swap whatever pick they get in 2027 with ATL27. two future seconds (2026 and 2028)

Suns Receive: Jalen Johnson, Okongwu

Spurs get Durant and keep the same number of firsts they already had

Hawks get a local kid at a position of need and control of their picks back

Suns get a center and a replacement forward with good potential

1) I don't think Hawks are selling Jalen at that price.
2) If they are, why don't we just cut out the Suns? Jalen + Okongwu +22 > Durant, IMO

[mo7888]

1) I don't think Hawks are selling Jalen at that price.
2) If they are, why don't we just cut out the Suns? Jalen + Okongwu +22 > Durant, IMO

There's a world where Atl plans to move Trae for picks somewhere and bottom out and start over. In that world moving Jalen and Okongwu to get their swap + the 2027 pick back looks enticing for them. I do think in the proposed deal that we'd get either Jalen or Okongwu along with KD though.

[scott]

People really want the Spurs to play big and slow, and I think that's the opposite of what they will or should do.

With the talk of the Suns needing a center and the Spurs supposedly talking to the Hawks, I wonder if something like this is viable:

Spurs Receive: Durant, 22

Hawks Receive: Vassell, Barnes, 14, 38. the extinguishment of the 2026 swap, the right to swap whatever pick they get in 2027 with ATL27. two future seconds (2026 and 2028)

Suns Receive: Jalen Johnson, Okongwu

Spurs get Durant and keep the same number of firsts they already had

Hawks get a local kid at a position of need and control of their picks back

Suns get a center and a replacement forward with good potential

I like this a lot for us... but seems like the Hawks are getting the major short end of the stick here. Maybe one more FRP for them? Or maybe I'm just rating Jalen Johnson too high.

[Chinook]

There’s no bidding war if he wants to come here.

Players can want more than one thing. Lillard wanted Miami. He didn't get it.

[vy65]

Players can want more than one thing. Lillard wanted Miami. He didn't get it.

Lillard wasn't on an expiring last year.

[RC_Drunkford]

People really want the Spurs to play big and slow, and I think that's the opposite of what they will or should do.

With the talk of the Suns needing a center and the Spurs supposedly talking to the Hawks, I wonder if something like this is viable:

Spurs Receive: Durant, 22

Hawks Receive: Vassell, Barnes, 14, 38. the extinguishment of the 2026 swap, the right to swap whatever pick they get in 2027 with ATL27. two future seconds (2026 and 2028)

Suns Receive: Jalen Johnson, Okongwu

Spurs get Durant and keep the same number of firsts they already had

Hawks get a local kid at a position of need and control of their picks back

Suns get a center and a replacement forward with good potential


Nobody is offering the Suns a Jalen Johnson caliber player. If he was on the table the Spurs should get him. He's locked into a 30 million per year contract for the next 5 season. This would be a massive overpay.

Reports are already out from insiders of this situation that the deal is something around Vassel, Barnes and #14. Not more. Plus KD wants to come to the Spurs.

Suns: Vassell, Barnes, #14

Hawks: Keldon, ATL 27

Spurs: KD, Okongwu, Lakers #22 from Hawks


something along this framework, depending on how much the Hawks value getting their own pick back.

Maybe the Spurs would try to route Okongwu to Phoenix to make the package somewhat more attractive, but I doubt it. At this point the Suns are basically trying to get rid of KD.

[spurraider21]

i cant fathom ATL moving Jalen Johnson

[R. DeMurre]

i cant fathom ATL moving Jalen Johnson


Me neither… he’s a young 19/10/5 guy who defends and is on a great long term contract… a lot of years, that would be the potential of the #1 pick.

[exstatic]

Players can want more than one thing. Lillard wanted Miami. He didn't get it.

Lillard didn’t have the leverage of an ending contract looming. He was two years into a six year deal. No team had to worry about him leaving anytime soon. A much better parallel would be Fox stating he wouldn’t extend with anyone but SA.

[DPG21920]

I don't disagree that his value dropped a lot. But it was extremely high before. 14 may be enough, but it's still within the range where it can be outbid. In this scenario the Spurs are maintaining their ability to make future deals at the expense of some of the upside of their 2025-2027 firsts.

I don't think the Spurs are overpaying. If anything, I'd more question if the Spurs should just cut the Suns out and take Johnson/Okongwu themselves.

Easily the latter. If SA is giving that up I without an ounce of hesitation take OO + JJ. If spurs got to keep pick 14 in your scenario I would be more inclined with KD. But at that point I’d rather go from 14 to 22 if it means getting JJ + OO

[exstatic]

Easily the latter. If SA is giving that up I without an ounce of hesitation take OO + JJ. If spurs got to keep pick 14 in your scenario I would be more inclined with KD. But at that point I’d rather go from 14 to 22 if it means getting JJ + OO

There isn’t even chatter about ATL shopping either Jalen or Okongwu, it’s just a message board fever dream. There is definite chatter about Durant being shopped, and preferring SA.

[DPG21920]

There isn’t even chatter about ATL shopping either Jalen or Okongwu, it’s just a message board fever dream. There is definite chatter about Durant being shopped, and preferring SA.

I know - was just discussing the hypothetical at hand. And there wasn’t chatter about Luka being shopped either. Things happen and ATL is a team clearly primed for shake up

[exstatic]

I know - was just discussing the hypothetical at hand. And there wasn’t chatter about Luka being shopped either. Things happen and ATL is a team clearly primed for shake up

I actually don’t want to give their picks back. Someone pointed out in another thread that if we get good REALLY fast by doing things like the Durant deal, which is only a short term thing, we could saddle ATL with a really shitty mid to late 20s pick, making it impossible for them to improve in 26-27, and giving us a good shot at another lottery pick.

[Chinook]

I'm not saying the Hawks want to trade Johnson. But as Bruno mentioned, they were potentially willing to deal him to get their picks back. They have Daniels and Risacher and might love guys like Bryant, Cowherd and Fleming at 13/14. If they can get their future back, I could see the logic.

[Ariel]

I'm not saying the Hawks want to trade Johnson. But as Bruno mentioned, they were potentially willing to deal him to get their picks back.
You mean this?

What I've read on a Hawks board is that Spurs were interested in a Keldon + Barnes + Hawks picks back to Atlanta (with some protections) for Jalen Johnson. It was said that Spurs wanted to keep Vassell.
That's a far cry from Atlanta being willing to trade him for their picks back. I wish, but sounds unlikely unless catastrophe strikes, Memphis/NOLA style.

[Chinook]

You mean this?

That's a far cry from Atlanta being willing to trade him for their picks back. I wish, but sounds unlikely unless catastrophe strikes, Memphis/NOLA style.

I don't see the same difference you do. "Potentially willing" is an extremely low bar to clear, and if the Spurs are (according to these rumors) thinking they could protect the ATL picks, that implies they think the picks would be too much to give up without protections.

[Ariel]

I don't see the same difference you do. "Potentially willing" is an extremely low bar to clear, and if the Spurs are (according to these rumors) thinking they could protect the ATL picks, that implies they think the picks would be too much to give up without protections.
The post above speaks about Spurs being interested, nothing about Atlanta being willing to trade him. Technically you can argue any team is "potentially willing to deal" any given player under the right circumstances, but it's such a vague statement it's misleading (into thinking there's something to it when there's not).

[R. DeMurre]

So many of the "I hear there's interest" comments on message boards are just guys quoting other guys they themselves have read on other message boards.

[Chinook]

The post above speaks about Spurs being interested, nothing about Atlanta being willing to trade him. Technically you can argue any team is "potentially willing to deal" any given player under the right circumstances, but it's such a vague statement it's misleading (into thinking there's something to it when there's not).

I disagree. I think we all know we're talking about hypothetical scenarios, and if the Spurs are rumored to think they could protect the picks, that suggests they think the Hawks would be willing to deal him. Sort of like we don't know if the Suns will accept 14 for Durant but we're talking about it anyway.

[Chinook]

So many of the "I hear there's interest" comments on message boards are just guys quoting other guys they themselves have read on other message boards.

And that's fine on a thread when we're discussing trade ideas. None of the ideas we discuss have to be backed up even by that much.

[exstatic]

I disagree. I think we all know we're talking about hypothetical scenarios, and if the Spurs are rumored to think they could protect the picks, that suggests they think the Hawks would be willing to deal him. Sort of like we don't know if the Suns will accept 14 for Durant but we're talking about it anyway.

I don’t believe the Durant thing is hypothetical.

[Chinook]

I don’t believe the Durant thing is hypothetical.

That the Suns would take 14 and filler? Yes, that's just speculation, with one dude repeating that speculation as if it's a fact. We actually don't even know that the Spurs are still interested in Durant, as they have fewer ballast contracts and picks than they did at the deadline. Their interest in KD might've ended when they acquired Fox for the financial reasons that scott pointed out.

[Ariel]

I disagree. I think we all know we're talking about hypothetical scenarios, and if the Spurs are rumored to think they could protect the picks, that suggests they think the Hawks would be willing to deal him. Sort of like we don't know if the Suns will accept 14 for Durant but we're talking about it anyway.
I clearly disagree, but I'm not going to debate semantics. I wanted to know if there was something else I was missing and now I know there wasn't, good enough answer for me.

[RC_Drunkford]

That the Suns would take 14 and filler? Yes, that's just speculation, with one dude repeating that speculation as if it's a fact. We actually don't even know that the Spurs are still interested in Durant, as they have fewer ballast contracts and picks than they did at the deadline. Their interest in KD might've ended when they acquired Fox for the financial reasons that scott (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=150) pointed out.

if you were reading and listening to reports you'd know the Spurs are still interested and the package around #14 is being discussed. These infos come from one of the most reliable sources in Phoenix.

[Bruno]

That's a far cry from Atlanta being willing to trade him for their picks back. I wish, but sounds unlikely unless catastrophe strikes, Memphis/NOLA style.

That's where I read about it:
https://www.hawksquawk.net/topic/439141-2024-25-insider-thread/page/390/#comment-1388247

Spurs would be Hawks picks back but 26 with some protections for 2027 plus 14 and Johnson and Barnes. They have no interest in moving Vassell.

I think this poster is legit. To me, the biggest takeaway from that isn't that there was some talks about JJ, it's that Spurs might want to keep Vassell.

[tbdog]

Isn't Johnson a poor shooter. I know he had a super season and 30mil per year is a great deal. 19+10+5. But 30% and 4 attempts from downtown a game - thats Keldon numbers. Johnson, Castel, Fox, Sochan surrounding Wemby isn't ideal spacing. But boy that is an extremely athletic group.

Johnson is kinda the perfect pf for Wemby though. That rumour indicates to me the Spurs are still shopping for bargains. Johnson contract is a bargain.

[Chinook]

if you were reading and listening to reports you'd know the Spurs are still interested and the package around #14 is being discussed. These infos come from one of the most reliable sources in Phoenix.

Suns fans says Gambo isn't reliable at all. Is it someone else?

[exstatic]

Isn't Johnson a poor shooter. I know he had a super season and 30mil per year is a great deal. 19+10+5. But 30% and 4 attempts from downtown a game - thats Keldon numbers. Johnson, Castel, Fox, Sochan surrounding Wemby isn't ideal spacing. But boy that is an extremely athletic group.

Johnson is kinda the perfect pf for Wemby though. That rumour indicates to me the Spurs are still shopping for bargains. Johnson contract is a bargain.

He shot 35.5% the year before, on a 3 year improvement trend with about the same attempts. You just have to decide which you think is real: 31% or 35%.

[SpursFan86]

1930606043815383159

Highly doubt there’s interest here and feels like pure speculation, but posting nevertheless. Think I’d throw up if we traded for Jaylen Brown tbh :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

That's where I read about it:
https://www.hawksquawk.net/topic/439141-2024-25-insider-thread/page/390/#comment-1388247


I think this poster is legit. To me, the biggest takeaway from that isn't that there was some talks about JJ, it's that Spurs might want to keep Vassell.

That‘s interesting. Jalen Johnson + Okongwu would also be 45 million. That would most likely cancel out a KD trade. Jalen Johnson and KD could work, as could KD + Okongwu. As I said rumor has it there‘s a Spurs/Suns/Hawks/Nets 4-team deal in the works. If it ever goes through is another story.

[RC_Drunkford]

Suns fans says Gambo isn't reliable at all. Is it someone else?

I haven‘t heard one person say that. Plenty of media members and Suns outlets say that Gambo is plugged in and reliable. He‘s been in the game for 29 years, I doubt he‘s there that long if he’s making shit up.

[Teamduncan21]

That's where I read about it:
https://www.hawksquawk.net/topic/439141-2024-25-insider-thread/page/390/#comment-1388247


I think this poster is legit. To me, the biggest takeaway from that isn't that there was some talks about JJ, it's that Spurs might want to keep Vassell.



That's like 2 picks and 1 swap for Jalen and mann. Like reverse of dejounte (which we consider as overpay)

Sounds like a lot for Jalen too

[R. DeMurre]

Isn't Johnson a poor shooter. I know he had a super season and 30mil per year is a great deal. 19+10+5. But 30% and 4 attempts from downtown a game - thats Keldon numbers. Johnson, Castel, Fox, Sochan surrounding Wemby isn't ideal spacing. But boy that is an extremely athletic group.

Johnson is kinda the perfect pf for Wemby though. That rumour indicates to me the Spurs are still shopping for bargains. Johnson contract is a bargain.


I don't think he'll ever be a 3pt specialist, but his first two seasons were 23.1% and 28.8%, and his last two were 35.5% and 31.2%, so there's definite improvement. Whether he can make a Lu Dort-like transformation or not is still up in the air, but I don't think it'd be necessary. He's so much better than Keldon in every other area. But I get the concern... at some point the accumulation of good players who aren't good three point shooters becomes a concern, but I think the Spurs are too early in their transformation to worry about that much.

[Chinook]

I haven‘t heard one person say that. Plenty of media members and Suns outlets say that Gambo is plugged in and reliable. He‘s been in the game for 29 years, I doubt he‘s there that long if he’s making shit up.

My experience with Suns fans is that they think he's a hack, and they tend not to take him seriously.

[Ice009]

That's where I read about it:
https://www.hawksquawk.net/topic/439141-2024-25-insider-thread/page/390/#comment-1388247


I think this poster is legit. To me, the biggest takeaway from that isn't that there was some talks about JJ, it's that Spurs might want to keep Vassell.

Why would they have no interest in moving Vassell? That's the bit that has me more confused. I'm sure if his contract years were shorter, maybe they'd want to keep him a bit longer to see how it works out, but not sure why they'd want to keep him with the amount of years left on his contract. Are they thinking he's a good value player locked into 4 year contract? Do they think he can thrive in a role as a role player/scorer/defender?

[Ariel]

That's where I read about it:
https://www.hawksquawk.net/topic/439141-2024-25-insider-thread/page/390/#comment-1388247


I think this poster is legit. To me, the biggest takeaway from that isn't that there was some talks about JJ, it's that Spurs might want to keep Vassell.
Thanks. I can't say I put too much stock into it, or even most media reports, really. But it's important to know the source and the exact words, so that everyone can assess for themselves how reliable it is and what the key information is.

In this case, I agree with you. Assuming the source is reliable (I'm very skeptic) my key takeaway would be that Vassell is off the table, then you could also infer the profile of players Spurs are looking to add (young upcoming stars rather than over the hill vets), and lastly, that they have very clear limits on how far they're willing to go (that's a fair, but sensible offer to make from the Spurs POV). I don't think you can say Atlanta is willing to trade Jalen Johnson out of this tidbit, but anyone is free to read this as they wish.

[sfernald]

Why would they have no interest in moving Vassell? That's the bit that has me more confused. I'm sure if his contract years were shorter, maybe they'd want to keep him a bit longer to see how it works out, but not sure why they'd want to keep him with the amount of years left on his contract. Are they thinking he's a good value player locked into 4 year contract? Do they think he can thrive in a role as a role player/scorer/defender?

cause they still think he’s the franchise

[RC_Drunkford]

I guess what Shams said is real: The Spurs are in the hunt of a star wing.

We've heard rumors about Durant, Jalen Johnson and RJ Barrett. Anything is possible at this point.


Why would they have no interest in moving Vassell? That's the bit that has me more confused. I'm sure if his contract years were shorter, maybe they'd want to keep him a bit longer to see how it works out, but not sure why they'd want to keep him with the amount of years left on his contract. Are they thinking he's a good value player locked into 4 year contract? Do they think he can thrive in a role as a role player/scorer/defender?

I actually assume they will try to keep him, even in a KD trade. His contract lines up with Vicor's extension and he had a down season. Devin in an offball role with Fox as a PG could look really good. Problem is that if we add KD and keep him, we'd have to do some serious cap gymnastics. And again, I think trading down from #2 is a real possibility.

[spurraider21]

i dont see jaylen brown happening at all, though i could see brooklyn going after him.

[Seventyniner]

KD is definitely a star. Jalen Johnson is pretty close. RJ Barrett? No.

[DPG21920]

That's where I read about it:
https://www.hawksquawk.net/topic/439141-2024-25-insider-thread/page/390/#comment-1388247


I think this poster is legit. To me, the biggest takeaway from that isn't that there was some talks about JJ, it's that Spurs might want to keep Vassell.

I heard a little chatter otherwise (regarding Vassell). Thats not to say they are looking to shop him but that he has come up a few times. May be a George Hill situation/tactic…..Spurs are about to have 3 guards with Fox/Castle/Harper and Vassell is the odd man out (especially for his money and SA situation) if that comes to pass. So tell teams how you aren’t looking to move him but the other guys are available to drive up value some etc…

[Bruno]

Why would they have no interest in moving Vassell? That's the bit that has me more confused. I'm sure if his contract years were shorter, maybe they'd want to keep him a bit longer to see how it works out, but not sure why they'd want to keep him with the amount of years left on his contract. Are they thinking he's a good value player locked into 4 year contract? Do they think he can thrive in a role as a role player/scorer/defender?

I'm on team "trade Vassell" but I can see why Spurs could want to keep him.

Offensively, he would be a nice fit with next year team. He is at his best as an off the ball player and he is a good shooter.
Defensively, he has the physical tools to be way better than what he was this year. He is a little short to guard some of bigger perimeter players but he is quite strong to compensate.

Vassell has $106M/4 years left on his contract. If Spurs think he can become a good 3&D player, that's a fine contract in the current NBA financial landscape.

[Ariel]

Spurs should definitely look into moving Vassell, his contract is that of an above average starter at the position and if he once again plays below that threshold it'll be hard to move him at his contract. Meanwhile Spurs have better backcourt players and more pressing frontcourt needs which they could address with his salary slot. Unless they're sure his value is going up, they should absolutely be open to the possibility at least.

[dn0774]

I can understand the Spurs not wanting to telegraph to other teams that Vassell isn't part of our future core, we need to keep his perceived value as high as possible. That being said, any GM worth their salt can probably recognize the Spurs absolutely do not want to pay good starter level money ($27m per year) to a guy who is poised to come off the bench going forward.

I do still believe in "theoretical Vassell" becoming a quality starter, just not with the Spurs. He really needed to take a step last year (mostly defensively and maybe some shooting upticks) and that just didn't happen. Some of that not happening was certainly due to not getting a proper training camp/rehabbing his foot injury, but the results are what they are. Castle can't shoot like Devin but everything else Steph does provides more value going forward. I would not be surprised to see Devin get traded and end up thriving in a situation where the depth chart is more favorable to his talents and I would be absolutely happy to see it even if its not with the Spurs.

[mo7888]

I wonder if some of the rumors about a SA/PHX/ BKN/ATL trade might be to send Vassell to Brooklyn for a couple of their mid 20 picks going to Phoenix instead of Devin's salary to really try and save some money?