Spurs trade ideas

[baseline bum]

Even I know it counts against your cap :lol

I just thought you could spread the money around over several years.

So make the problem even worse by spreading over the years Victor is making a supermax and Castle needs to be paid?

[Ice009]

So make the problem even worse by spreading over the years Victor is making a supermax and Castle needs to be paid?

Darn, that pretty much puts to bed that idea.

[KobesAchilles]

So make the problem even worse by spreading over the years Victor is making a supermax and Castle needs to be paid?
Well aren’t you a killjoy :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

Giannis and Fox too?

well Giannis plays for Milwaukee so you gotta ask them. There's a good chance with Fox, since he basically begged the Kings for 8 years to bring in a wing. If the Spurs get him KD he should take a discount. That's the best wing he ever played with.

[baseline bum]

well Giannis plays for Milwaukee so you gotta ask them. There's a good chance with Fox, since he basically begged the Kings for 8 years to bring in a wing. If the Spurs get him KD he should take a discount. That's the best wing he ever played with.

Was referring to a post saying to get both Giannis and KD tho, which makes re-signing Victor impossible without a big salary dump

[SpursFan86]

1935383431606845784

For the people advocating for Collins…Jazz beat writer seems to think he could be had for cheap.

[scott]

1935383431606845784

For the people advocating for Collins…Jazz beat writer seems to think he could be had for cheap.

Cheap?

BWAGOD THAT'S BRIAN WRIGHTS MUSIC!

[objective]

B.Wright can't be that cheap, ask Zach Collins

Anyways

John Collins is a deal the Spurs have to get done unless they have a good excuse like Durant

Hopefully Utah holds off on any deal until draft night to see if any players they like such as Demin could be there at 14 and there's a tradeback to be made.

[jjspur]

It is looking less likely that the spurs trade for Durrant, so I think their next target is Lauri Markkanen. A bit expensive by spurs standards, but younger and cheaper than Durrant. Possibly the 14th or 38th pick comes into play. Every once in a great while the spurs wheel and deal, but they're usually careful about it. We'll see at the draft, who knows they may surprise us once more.

[LeBowen]

It is looking less likely that the spurs trade for Durrant, so I think their next target is Lauri Markkanen. A bit expensive by spurs standards, but younger and cheaper than Durrant. Possibly the 14th or 38th pick comes into play. Every once in a great while the spurs wheel and deal, but they're usually careful about it. We'll see at the draft, who knows they may surprise us once more.

Cheaper? Are you sure about that?
His contract would ruin our long-term flexibility and there's no way Jazz lets him go without Spurs trading down from #2 to #5, which should be a non-starter.

[Trueblood]

Cheaper? Are you sure about that?
His contract would ruin our long-term flexibility and there's no way Jazz lets him go without Spurs trading down from #2 to #5, which should be a non-starter.

This!

Collins is cheaper, has a better season (statistically), and his signing wouldn’t cripple our future financially.

[RC_Drunkford]

1935383431606845784

For the people advocating for Collins…Jazz beat writer seems to think he could be had for cheap.

I been saying this. Brian Wright has to go bargain shopping. Just scoop up all those underrated guys you can get without giving up a lot of assets.

That being said Spurs and Lakers will go after the same front court players this offseason. Would love to snatch up their main PF and C targets just to fuck them over. I hope people would rather play with Wemby than with 40-year old LeGM and fat Luka.


It is looking less likely that the spurs trade for Durrant, so I think their next target is Lauri Markkanen. A bit expensive by spurs standards, but younger and cheaper than Durrant. Possibly the 14th or 38th pick comes into play. Every once in a great while the spurs wheel and deal, but they're usually careful about it. We'll see at the draft, who knows they may surprise us once more.

John Collins had better numbers than Lauri and is cheaper. That's who you go for.

[R. DeMurre]

I been saying this. Brian Wright has to go bargain shopping. Just scoop up all those underrated guys you can get without giving up a lot of assets.




This is why I'm such a fan of signing Jake LaRavia as a FA, as I'm pretty sure a $20mil/3 yr offer would do it. He's gotten better all three years of his career to the point where last year he was a slight net positive asset. If he continues to improve, you've got a legit rotation guy for less than the MLE who by year 3 is an amazing bargain. At worst, you have a net neutral player making about $7mil, which is nothing in today's market, easily traded or included in a trade. Plus he's not a score first guy, so even if he fits perfectly and thrives, he wouldn't be uber expensive to re-up at the end of his contract.

[RC_Drunkford]

This is why I'm such a fan of signing Jake LaRavia as a FA, as I'm pretty sure a $20mil/3 yr offer would do it. He's gotten better all three years of his career to the point where last year he was a slight net positive asset. If he continues to improve, you've got a legit rotation guy for less than the MLE who by year 3 is an amazing bargain. At worst, you have a net neutral player making about $7mil, which is nothing in today's market, easily traded or included in a trade. Plus he's not a score first guy, so even if he fits perfectly and thrives, he wouldn't be uber expensive to re-up at the end of his contract.

That's who I want us to use the MLE money on. I wouldn't mind bringing in 2-3 forwards including LaRavia. KD is at the top of my list, John Collins second. Having LaRavia come off the bench would be great.

[jjspur]

Cheaper? Are you sure about that?
His contract would ruin our long-term flexibility and there's no way Jazz lets him go without Spurs trading down from #2 to #5, which should be a non-starter.

For the 25-26 season Markkanen makes 46 million and Durrant makes 54 million so yes that's 8 million cheaper and Markkanen's highest contract year is 3 years later at 54 million - what Durrant currently makes. Long term money will depend on how much less than 54 million Durrant is willing to take and for how long - with the cap going up I'm not sure he takes a hometown discount at all. Aside from the money aspect Markkanen is still almost a decade younger.

You're right, dealing with assclown Danny Ainge is difficult since he usually tries to screw the other teams over - however having any 50 plus million dollar player is enough to screw over any teams future salary flexibility.

[bigzak25]

Then Spurs say goodbye to Wemby in 2027 after paying their entire cap to KD, Giannis, and Fox

Wemby gets Max. We'll let the other players go if we have to if they don't agree to team friendly contracts.

And We'll have 2 Championships in the bag. Health permitting.

[bigzak25]

You don’t believe in Castle? Or Sochan? Bc if Castle is an all star like everyone here thinks he will be and Sochan learns how to shoot then the team will be very formidable going forward.
in 2027 We’d have MVP level Wemby
All NBA level Giannis
All star level Castle
DPOY Sochan??
And KDs money off the books and maybe some vets looking to ring chase to shore up the bench

I like this guy. Ha! Awesome post bro.

[bigzak25]

Up to 30% of people with bipolar disorder binge eat during their manic episodes.

You don't like me. I get it. Peace be with you.

[bigzak25]

Or give away work laptop computers, and run naked in the streets.

You got something to say. Then address me like a man Ex. My movie would win an Oscar. You got a problem with me or you just like talking shit?

[baseline bum]

Wemby gets Max. We'll let the other players go if we have to if they don't agree to team friendly contracts.

And We'll have 2 Championships in the bag. Health permitting.

35% max to KD
35% max to Giannis
30% max to Fox
30% max to Wemby
Castle $12.7 million
= already above the second apron with 8-10 roster spots to fill, assuming Spurs traded Harper and never signed any more free agents

[baseline bum]

You don’t believe in Castle? Or Sochan? Bc if Castle is an all star like everyone here thinks he will be and Sochan learns how to shoot then the team will be very formidable going forward.
in 2027 We’d have MVP level Wemby
All NBA level Giannis
All star level Castle
DPOY Sochan??
And KDs money off the books and maybe some vets looking to ring chase to shore up the bench

KD's not off the books until 2028. Sochan would either be traded or the team would let him walk in free agency.

[bigzak25]

For everyone that doesn't know me. I'm chill as fuck and I loketo party and laugh. But I don't take no shit. And I'll stand up for Mt friends to if I have to. I respect this site and I love this site I was one of the FIRST ones to come over and join from when we deserted MadeFromDust. Dusty Gsrza and avfew other assholes on the old SpursReport site.

I'm ride or die with the Site owners. Kori Ellis and LJ Ellis.

We had epic Get Togetherz back in the day.

We could again if only Mouse would show up again.

He's the life of the party. It's just who he is.

Anyhow. Ya'll take care and have a good day.

And I don't want to jinx them. But Go Fucking Pacers! Win in 7!

Peace... ✌️

[bigzak25]

35% max to KD
35% max to Giannis
30% max to Fox
30% max to Wemby
Castle $12.7 million
= already above the second apron with 8-10 roster spots to fill, assuming Spurs traded Harper and never signed any more free agents

KD is just a short term rental.

Giannis, yes, we would want him to finish his career here.

[Guru of Nothing]

For everyone that doesn't know me. I'm chill as fuck and I loketo party and laugh. But I don't take no shit. And I'll stand up for Mt friends to if I have to. I respect this site and I love this site I was one of the FIRST ones to come over and join from when we deserted MadeFromDust. Dusty Gsrza and avfew other assholes on the old SpursReport site.

I'm ride or die with the Site owners. Kori Ellis and LJ Ellis.

We had epic Get Togetherz back in the day.

We could again if only Mouse would show up again.

He's the life of the party. It's just who he is.

Anyhow. Ya'll take care and have a good day.

And I don't want to jinx them. But Go Fucking Pacers! Win in 7!

Peace... ✌️

Made From Dust. Holy fucking shit, I'd forgotten all about that wingnut. Jeebus.

Anyway, you're good people Zak.

[bigzak25]

If not KD, I'm more than content and happy to let the Spurs work their magic at #14.

[bigzak25]

Made From Dust. Holy fucking shit, I'd forgotten all about that wingnut. Jeebus.

Anyway, you're good people Zak.

Wassup Guru! Thanks big dawg!

And yeah, time flies...this site started in like March of 2003 or so. 22 years and counting... ��

[bigzak25]

If we don't go #2 for Giannis and take Harper which i gotta admit, would be awesome...who's coming for for down lowbhelp...talking big man defense and rebounding.

I'd love to trade for Draymond Green.

[baseline bum]

KD is just a short term rental.

Giannis, yes, we would want him to finish his career here.

You're committing 3 years to KD if you trade for him. Even without adding another 35% max salary in Giannis it's going to be tricky to pay KD that third year without going into the first apron since that's when Victor's likely supermax will begin. People are going to hate to hear this, but it's already going to cost the team Sochan if they get KD since they'll be in no position to extend him. So they'll probably include Sochan in a KD trade if they can land him. Also getting out of Vassell's guaranteed money is going to be critical unless Brian has assurances from ownership that they're willing to pay into the second apron for one year in 2027-28.

[Guru of Nothing]

Wassup Guru! Thanks big dawg!

And yeah, time flies...this site started in like March of 2003 or so. 22 years and counting... ��

Ha! I remember this place first getting off the ground back in the day. LJ even gave me ST.com admin keys for the evening once to fight porn bots while he and Kori went out on a date, or something.

[LeBowen]

You're committing 3 years to KD if you trade for him. Even without adding another 35% max salary in Giannis it's going to be tricky to pay KD that third year without going into the first apron since that's when Victor's likely supermax will begin. People are going to hate to hear this, but it's already going to cost the team Sochan if they get KD since they'll be in no position to extend him. So they'll probably include Sochan in a KD trade if they can land him. Also getting out of Vassell's guaranteed money is going to be critical unless Brian has assurances from ownership that they're willing to pay into the second apron for one year in 2027-28.

I'm still not that high on KD trade, but I'd accept it if he agrees to a paycut in his third year with us.
35% this season, then a 1+1 extension next summer.
He'd be 39 after his second season with us and taking a 80/2 deal to enable the team to keep everyone would be only fair.

He'd get 55/60/40/40 million from the Spurs in his age 37/38/39/40 seasons, which seems fair.
His production won't drop that much before that final season and I expect him to play for 4 more years if he stays healthy.

[CGD]

As we think about various trade scenarios, i wonder how folks rank their various future assets in light of new info (e.g., Luka trade, BOS cap situation). How would you rank them most, to least valuable:

26 FRP: Better of SA/ATL
27 FRP: ATL
28 FRP: Better of SAS/BOS (top1 ptx)
29 FRP: SAS
30 FRP: Better of SAS/DAL/MIN
31 FRP: Better of SAS/SAC
32 FRP: SAS

[LeBowen]

From most to least valuable:
30 FRP: Better of SAS/DAL/MIN
31 FRP: Better of SAS/SAC
27 FRP: ATL
26 FRP: Better of SA/ATL
32 FRP: SAS
28 FRP: Better of SAS/BOS (top1 ptx)
29 FRP: SAS

It's close between the two most valuable picks, I guess having two swap options is better than one and Mavs won't be in a good situation in '27-30 period because they'll have no assets to improve the team with when Kyrie/Klay/AD are gone.
Kings are guaranteed to be subpar.
Advantage to '27 Hawks pick because it's more likely Trae is goine by then.
Celtics won't get close to the lottery with Brad Stevens in charge and Tatum should be fully recovered from his Achilles injury.
I put '32 SAS ahead of those two picks because 7 years is a long time and who knows if Wemby stays healthy. That pick is one bad injury away from being gold.

[baseline bum]

I'm still not that high on KD trade, but I'd accept it if he agrees to a paycut in his third year with us.
35% this season, then a 1+1 extension next summer.
He'd be 39 after his second season with us and taking a 80/2 deal to enable the team to keep everyone would be only fair.

He'd get 55/60/40/40 million from the Spurs in his age 37/38/39/40 seasons, which seems fair.
His production won't drop that much before that final season and I expect him to play for 4 more years if he stays healthy.

Would be nice but I don't expect KD to take any shorts.

[LeBowen]

Would be nice but I don't expect KD to take any shorts.

Well then, best of luck to him in trying to find a team that's going to offer him 120/2 at 39.
Especially since Spurs would have no need to take a bad return in a potential S&T.

If Spurs are a top contender in 26-27 season, I think he'll take at least some discount to keep it going.

[ismael-robert]

You don't like me. I get it. But what's up your ass anyway? What did I ever do to you? Fuck your wife or something? Do tell. We're all ears.

Remember when this guy was quick to throw out the fake christian label. No Zak nothing personal on this site if u been here that long u should kno u need thick skin cause everyone talks trash to each other...but if u make fantasizing stupid posts that have no sense of reality yeah expect to get flamed n dont be so surprised

[bigzak25]

You're committing 3 years to KD if you trade for him. Even without adding another 35% max salary in Giannis it's going to be tricky to pay KD that third year without going into the first apron since that's when Victor's likely supermax will begin. People are going to hate to hear this, but it's already going to cost the team Sochan if they get KD since they'll be in no position to extend him. So they'll probably include Sochan in a KD trade if they can land him. Also getting out of Vassell's guaranteed money is going to be critical unless Brian has assurances from ownership that they're willing to pay into the second apron for one year in 2027-28.

You're spot on bro. Vassel and #2 for Giannis. Sochan and #14 for KD. In year 3, Spurs Trade him to his team of choice.

[bigzak25]

Ha! I remember this place first getting off the ground back in the day. LJ even gave me ST.com admin keys for the evening once to fight porn bots while he and Kori went out on a date, or something.

Smooth bro. Yeah. They're chill af. Great people.

[exstatic]

You got something to say. Then address me like a man Ex. My movie would win an Oscar. You got a problem with me or you just like talking shit?
Just shitposting, dude.

Definitely Oscar worthy with Jonah Hill playing you.

https://media.tenor.com/pqNv8zPEuvIAAAAC/jonah-hill-excited.gif

[benefactor]

You got something to say. Then address me like a man Ex. My movie would win an Oscar. You got a problem with me or you just like talking shit?
I got something to say. You're a fucking dumbass and have done nothing but post mostly dumb shit the whole time you've been back. I heard through some people here you have gotten your weight under control which is a good thing. Maybe you should try to do the same thing with your brain.

[bigzak25]

Just shitposting, dude.

Definitely Oscar worthy with Jonah Hill playing you.

https://media.tenor.com/pqNv8zPEuvIAAAAC/jonah-hill-excited.gif

All good then bro. I don't mind shit posting if you're honest about it. I'd buy you a beer. Godbless you Ex.

[bigzak25]

I got something to say. You're a fucking dumbass and have done nothing but post mostly dumb shit the whole time you've been back. I heard through some people here you have gotten your weight under control which is a good thing. Maybe you should try to do the same thing with your brain.

No Sir. My weight is not under control. I weighed myself yesterday and came in at 456lbs. But I have a plan to get the injections and get down to 225 by 2027.

Now point 2. Sir, why am I a fucking dumbass? What have I done to you? If you don't like my posts. That's cool. It's a free country. Just scroll past bro.

And I humbly disagree that I'm posting dumb shit.

I posted about Giannis and KD weeks before the media did.

I broached the subject of Manu or Becky as a new Coach. I don't think that's a dumb discussion.

I rooted for Kawhi and thought Golden State had something. I was wrong. It happens.

And now I'm rooting fir the Pacers and discussing the trade for Giannis in the appropriate thread.

In the NFL forum, I'm talking Redskins/Commanders.

And in the Club. I'm searching for Mouse and telling a bit of my life story.

So man. I'm not shitposting dude.

I'm trying to contribute good stuff.

And regarding my brain, you'll have to excuse me. I'm bipolar I. The serious one. I've been through some shi bro.

Now? I'm a devoted Jesus follower.

I love God and I love Jesus with all my heart.

I'll even pray for you and your family to be safe and be blessed bro. Godbless you.

[bigzak25]

Just shitposting, dude.

Definitely Oscar worthy with Jonah Hill playing you.

https://media.tenor.com/pqNv8zPEuvIAAAAC/jonah-hill-excited.gif

One thing though bro. I'm no actor. I'm a truth teller. What you see is what you get. And I don't appreciate the Jonah Hill comparison just cuz I'm fat right now.

The truth is, I can be an Angel. And I can be a beast.

I choose Angel. But don't miss me off by hurting my friends or family. Insult me? That's fine. I can take it. It would be nice if you could be funny while doing it. Then we can all have a good laugh. But you're no mouse bro. He gets a pass for life to make fun of me. He's my brother and I love him. I wish he would show up. I miss him alot. I don't smoke weed anymore like we used to, but we'd still have laughs...

https://youtu.be/_MMbWLqGyOM?si=jZL7XaTXGAlaojCT

[Mr. Body]

What the fuck is going on

[bigzak25]

Remember when this guy was quick to throw out the fake christian label. No Zak nothing personal on this site if u been here that long u should kno u need thick skin cause everyone talks trash to each other...but if u make fantasizing stupid posts that have no sense of reality yeah expect to get flamed n dont be so surprised

You have a good point. So noted Sir.

[bigzak25]

What the fuck is going on

Lol. Bringing this thread to life bro! Just spicing things up. All good.

[baseline bum]

You're spot on bro. Vassel and #2 for Giannis. Sochan and #14 for KD. In year 3, Spurs Trade him to his team of choice.

That's a financial disaster because KD would be an expiring and there's no way they're going to get $60 million in unguaranteed contracts back to cut loose so they can re-sign Wemby. The money doesn't work, the Spurs can't go out and buy two Ferraris this summer unless they wanna lose the house in a couple of years.

[KobesAchilles]

Tbh if we trade for both Giannis and KD this offseason (we won’t but if we did) then we don’t have to extend KD at all. He can go fuck himself. Offer him a 1+1 deal and that’s it. He wouldn’t even leave either bc it’s be too great a chance at a ring.

[venitian navigator]

If we really like this draft it could be an idea to give back to Atlanta the 26 swap plus 38 for 13 and 22...
They could accept considering you give them back at least for 2026 their chance to decide for tanking (actually they are probably not in the top 10 in the east)...

[RC_Drunkford]

That's a financial disaster because KD would be an expiring and there's no way they're going to get $60 million in unguaranteed contracts back to cut loose so they can re-sign Wemby. The money doesn't work, the Spurs can't go out and buy two Ferraris this summer unless they wanna lose the house in a couple of years.

the 27/28 cap situation hinges on the amount of the extensions. The max Wemby will command is 56 million. Vecenie mentioned that Fox' extension would be 140/3 which is like 47 million per year and is great value. I actually expected it to start at 51 million and go up.

KD will take a discount. He's not getting 60 million in that year. If he signs a 1+1 he could actually opt out and the Spurs could give him a 2-year deal with the last year being partially guaranteed. He can then retire after 1 year and get a couple millions the year after. Spurs did something like that with Manu when he retired.

Sochan's extension also depends on the price, if we indeed keep him. People say 33/3 would be fair, but it could easily be 70/4. All depends on what they negotiate.

Then there's the whole thing with frontloading salaries and have declining contracts. The Spurs have so much flexibility that I'm not worried about those things at all.

[baseline bum]

the 27/28 cap situation hinges on the amount of the extensions. The max Wemby will command is 56 million. Vecenie mentioned that Fox' extension would be 140/3 which is like 47 million per year and is great value. I actually expected it to start at 51 million and go up.

KD will take a discount. He's not getting 60 million in that year. If he signs a 1+1 he could actually opt out and the Spurs could give him a 2-year deal with the last year being partially guaranteed. He can then retire after 1 year and get a couple millions the year after. Spurs did something like that with Manu when he retired.

Sochan's extension also depends on the price, if we indeed keep him. People say 33/3 would be fair, but it could easily be 70/4. All depends on what they negotiate.

Then there's the whole thing with frontloading salaries and have declining contracts. The Spurs have so much flexibility that I'm not worried about those things at all.

1. Vecenie is a draft guy, why would he have any sources as to what Fox is asking? And this is the same Fox that wanted to stay in Sacramento if he would have been supermax eligible, but now he's taking a paycut and only a three year deal? Not buying either part of that.

2. Durant has already floated he wants a two year $120 million extension out to the media.

3. Even if he doesn't ask for max frontloading only changes things maybe $3 to $5 million each way.

[baseline bum]

Well then, best of luck to him in trying to find a team that's going to offer him 120/2 at 39.
Especially since Spurs would have no need to take a bad return in a potential S&T.

If Spurs are a top contender in 26-27 season, I think he'll take at least some discount to keep it going.

Durant's not signing a 1+1 with the plus one a team option.

[Bill_Brasky]

People need to come off that Durant shit. It's a stupid idea and he's old as fuck and would fuck us financially.

[exstatic]

One thing though bro. I'm no actor. I'm a truth teller. What you see is what you get. And I don't appreciate the Jonah Hill comparison just cuz I'm fat right now.

The truth is, I can be an Angel. And I can be a beast.

I choose Angel. But don't miss me off by hurting my friends or family. Insult me? That's fine. I can take it. It would be nice if you could be funny while doing it. Then we can all have a good laugh. But you're no mouse bro. He gets a pass for life to make fun of me. He's my brother and I love him. I wish he would show up. I miss him alot. I don't smoke weed anymore like we used to, but we'd still have laughs...

https://youtu.be/_MMbWLqGyOM?si=jZL7XaTXGAlaojCT

Jonah is no longer fat. I used the ‘Jonah is excited’ meme, because you often are.

[RC_Drunkford]

People need to come off that Durant shit. It's a stupid idea and he's old as fuck and would fuck us financially.

and yet the Spurs want him and will trade for him. You can cry then

[RC_Drunkford]

1. Vecenie is a draft guy, why would he have any sources as to what Fox is asking? And this is the same Fox that wanted to stay in Sacramento if he would have been supermax eligible, but now he's taking a paycut and only a three year deal? Not buying either part of that.

2. Durant has already floated he wants a two year $120 million extension out to the media.

3. Even if he doesn't ask for max frontloading only changes things maybe $3 to $5 million each way.

Durant didn’t float nothing around. The media people just said what the max of what he‘s eligible for is. There‘s a difference

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Vecenie seemed unaware that Fox can sign a 4/229 extension after august 3rd. He’s awesome as a draft guy but not necessarily a cap guy.

The only reason for Fox to sign a 3 year deal would be to have an out after the second year and be eligible for a 35% max, having 10+ years of experience.

[Ice009]

Vecenie seemed unaware that Fox can sign a 4/229 extension after august 3rd. He’s awesome as a draft guy but not necessarily a cap guy.

The only reason for Fox to sign a 3 year deal would be to have an out after the second year and be eligible for a 35% max, having 10+ years of experience.

So if Fox signed a 4 year deal, that sounds like he'd be doing the Spurs a favour salary wise? What percentage are the raises for the 4 year deal?

Also, I don't think Durant would sign a !+1 and then a two year deal to retire on that 4th year. He might want to play a lot longer. On Gil's Arena (I watch it some sometimes depending on what they're discussing- I know they don't really have super serious discussions and some of it is downright silly), but they bought up a good point about KD. Some of the guys mentioned that people might start saying he's washed up if he averages less than 25ppg, but really, that would still be better than 99% of players his age have ever done. He could probably still play 5 years and average over 20ppg if his body holds up which would still be darn good, but just not up to his own usual standards. Since KD is a hooper, I doubt he'd want to retire in 3 years if he's still averaging over 20ppg and is healthy.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

So if Fox signed a 4 year deal, that sounds like he'd be doing the Spurs a favour salary wise? What percentage are the raises for the 4 year deal?

Fox can sign for 30% of the cap, with 8% increases. In terms of percentage of the cap his contract will go down because the cap is expected to rise by 10% per year.

This isn’t a favour to the Spurs, it’s his max. It would be a favour if he decides to give up a little bit and sign off of, say 27% instead of 30% but he has no incentive to do so. It’d look bad if he gives the Spurs a discount and then they trade him in a couple of years.

[exstatic]

Fox can sign for 30% of the cap, with 8% increases. In terms of percentage of the cap his contract will go down because the cap is expected to rise by 10% per year.

This isn’t a favour to the Spurs, it’s his max. It would be a favour if he decides to give up a little bit and sign off of, say 27% instead of 30% but he has no incentive to do so. It’d look bad if he gives the Spurs a discount and then they trade him in a couple of years.

The favor is that he signs four years at 30%,instead of 2 @30% and then opts out and signs for two at his 10 year rate of 35%.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The favor is that he signs four years at 30%,instead of 2 @30% and then opts out and signs for two at his 10 year rate of 35%.

Yeah but it seems highly unlikely that he’s a 35% max guy. He bolted from Sacramento the moment he realised this isn’t going to be possible. Seems like a nice guy with enough self awareness, we’ll see.

[bigzak25]

Jonah is no longer fat. I used the ‘Jonah is excited’ meme, because you often are.

You'd man Ex! I understand now. Yes. You have a point. I'm high on life with Jesus by my side.

[Ice009]

What Exstatic said is what I meant. But what you said also makes sense.

[RC_Drunkford]

Vecenie seemed unaware that Fox can sign a 4/229 extension after august 3rd. He’s awesome as a draft guy but not necessarily a cap guy.

The only reason for Fox to sign a 3 year deal would be to have an out after the second year and be eligible for a 35% max, having 10+ years of experience.

yea that was my calculation too. That's 51/55/59/64. I really hope we can get some type of discount here and flatten the raises tbh.

[spurraider21]

Vecenie seemed unaware that Fox can sign a 4/229 extension after august 3rd. He’s awesome as a draft guy but not necessarily a cap guy.

The only reason for Fox to sign a 3 year deal would be to have an out after the second year and be eligible for a 35% max, having 10+ years of experience.
he's also been referencing the "minnesota pick" in a few recent pods even though that went out for Fox

[Ariel]

The favor is that he signs four years at 30%,instead of 2 @30% and then opts out and signs for two at his 10 year rate of 35%.
It's only a favor if paying him 35% of the cap was ever an option, which I don't think is the case. Fox should take that 4 year extension and be happy.

[Bill_Brasky]

and yet the Spurs want him and will trade for him. You can cry then

Maybe when the Durant thread gets to some magical number of pages and he still isn't here yall will realize it's not happening.

[scott]

the 27/28 cap situation hinges on the amount of the extensions. The max Wemby will command is 56 million. Vecenie mentioned that Fox' extension would be 140/3 which is like 47 million per year and is great value. I actually expected it to start at 51 million and go up.

KD will take a discount. He's not getting 60 million in that year. If he signs a 1+1 he could actually opt out and the Spurs could give him a 2-year deal with the last year being partially guaranteed. He can then retire after 1 year and get a couple millions the year after. Spurs did something like that with Manu when he retired.

Sochan's extension also depends on the price, if we indeed keep him. People say 33/3 would be fair, but it could easily be 70/4. All depends on what they negotiate.

Then there's the whole thing with frontloading salaries and have declining contracts. The Spurs have so much flexibility that I'm not worried about those things at all.

I'm a huge Vecenie fan, but he was off base about Fox's extension. He was looking at what Fox was eligible to extend for today, not looking at what he can extend for starting Aug 2.

[scott]

My hope is that Fox's would agree to a 3+1 (Player Option) with the first two years being max 30% with max 8% raise, then the last two years being max declines. I think this comes out to somewhere around 4/205. The idea would be that it gives the Spurs a little more flexibility in Fox's 3rd year of the extension when other extensions will be kicking in, and Fox gets the ability to opt out and renegotiate if he's still performing at a high level.

[RC_Drunkford]

My hope is that Fox's would agree to a 3+1 (Player Option) with the first two years being max 30% with max 8% raise, then the last two years being max declines. I think this comes out to somewhere around 4/205. The idea would be that it gives the Spurs a little more flexibility in Fox's 3rd year of the extension when other extensions will be kicking in, and Fox gets the ability to opt out and renegotiate if he's still performing at a high level.

I think getting KD would actually be a good selling point for him to give the Spurs a discount. Dude asked the Kings for 8 years to bring in a wing player and the Spurs get him KD within months. That gotta be worth something.

[spurraider21]

I think getting KD would actually be a good selling point for him to give the Spurs a discount. Dude asked the Kings for 8 years to bring in a wing player and the Spurs get him KD within months. That gotta be worth something.
yeah if you're going to ask a player to take a discount, you have to justify it with something concrete. the spurs did so with duncan/manu in the summer they were bringing in Aldridge (but they still have kawhi his max, as deserved). duncan and manu were also in the limelights of their careers, so...

[bigzak25]

https://airalamo.com/spurs-dream-draft-sleeper-there-for-taking-with-14th-pick

[RC_Drunkford]

There are then questions about Nickeil Alexander-Walker's future with the organization, one that continues to look murky. Alexander-Walker is expected to receive plenty of interest from teams with their full mid-level exception available in free agency, and his price range is beginning to elevate to the point where Minnesota won't be able to afford him and remain under the tax aprons. Keep an eye on the Timberwolves getting creative and potentially finding a sign-and-trade involving Alexander-Walker.
The Bulls and Atlanta Hawks are two Eastern Conference teams labeled as potential destinations for Alexander-Walker, and sources recently named the Spurs as a Western Conference rival that has recently expressed interest in the Timberwolves shooting guard. Before trading for Desmond Bane, the Orlando Magic were named a potential suitor (https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-intel-celtics-trade-candidates-james-hardens-free-agency-timberwolves-kings/) for Alexander-Walker by Michael Scotto of HoopsHype.

[tbdog]

Nickeil Alexander-Walker will have heaps of MLE offers.

[mo7888]

Nickeil Alexander-Walker will have heaps of MLE offers.

Hopefully, we are one of those..

[R. DeMurre]

Nickeil Alexander-Walker will have heaps of MLE offers.

But not teams with defensive centerpieces as dominant as Wemby. That's our slight advantage at least.

[CGD]

Nickeil Alexander-Walker will have heaps of MLE offers.

I’ll have to admit I haven’t seen much of him, aside from the playoffs. Are folks thinking he’s the solution at SF?

[LeBowen]

I’ll have to admit I haven’t seen much of him, aside from the playoffs. Are folks thinking he’s the solution at SF?

He was one of my favorite free agency targets before the lottery, but I'm not sure now since we got Harper.
He's Vasell-sized, but a borderline elite defender. We still need forwards with legit size.

[Ice009]

He was one of my favorite free agency targets before the lottery, but I'm not sure now since we got Harper.
He's Vasell-sized, but a borderline elite defender. We still need forwards with legit size.

This is the whole point, and you guys said this a day or two ago. I don't think he fits as well with Dylan Harper due to his size. Would love to have him, but not sure we can waste the MLE on him when the Spurs need more size. I agree with all you guys that say he might be a bit small to add another player of that size.

[SpursBills]

If everybody offers MLE, NAW's best spot is probably Lakers tbh. I expect they'll do everything they can to sign DFS too. Luka is heliocentric enough that pure off ball guys next to him can thrive. If they can flip Knecht or Reaves for a decent rim protector (Nic Claxton + stuff maybe), that's a reasonably balanced starting 5

Luka/NAW/DFS/Lebron/Claxton is a reasonably balanced lineup that doesn't completely hemorrhage points and has decent spacing

[LeBowen]

I think he can get more than MLE, I'd say up to 16 to 18 million a year.
Would be a great upgrade for THJ who's making the same money.

He's turning 27 and hasn't made much for modern NBA standards, I think he'll prioritize getting as much money as possible.

[scott]

I like NAW a lot as a player - but how does he fit on this team after we draft Harper, and especially if we haven't traded Vassell yet?

We seem to be creating quite the logjam of guards (Fox/Castle/Harper/Vassell/Wesley/Branham) and wings (Castle/Vassell/Champ/Keldon/Barnes/Sochan). We really need to thin out some of those ranks and turn those roster spots into forwards and bigs.

And before anyone comes and responds "yOu DoNt HaVe To WoRrY aBoUt BlAkE aNd BrAn" - yes, I realize those are end of bench guys who shouldn't impede adding talent to the roster... but the point is they are in fact on the roster, taking up space... so the Spurs need to do something about them.

[mo7888]

I like NAW a lot as a player - but how does he fit on this team after we draft Harper, and especially if we haven't traded Vassell yet?

We seem to be creating quite the logjam of guards (Fox/Castle/Harper/Vassell/Wesley/Branham) and wings (Castle/Vassell/Champ/Keldon/Barnes/Sochan). We really need to thin out some of those ranks and turn those roster spots into forwards and bigs.

And before anyone comes and responds "yOu DoNt HaVe To WoRrY aBoUt BlAkE aNd BrAn" - yes, I realize those are end of bench guys who shouldn't impede adding talent to the roster... but the point is they are in fact on the roster, taking up space... so the Spurs need to do something about them.

In my mind I've already moved on from Devin and NAW is a replacement that wouldn't mind coming off the bench.

[Seventyniner]

Branham is pure trade fodder at this point and Wesley isn't far behind. I wouldn't worry about their spots on the roster.

[RC_Drunkford]

I like NAW a lot as a player - but how does he fit on this team after we draft Harper, and especially if we haven't traded Vassell yet?

We seem to be creating quite the logjam of guards (Fox/Castle/Harper/Vassell/Wesley/Branham) and wings (Castle/Vassell/Champ/Keldon/Barnes/Sochan). We really need to thin out some of those ranks and turn those roster spots into forwards and bigs.

And before anyone comes and responds "yOu DoNt HaVe To WoRrY aBoUt BlAkE aNd BrAn" - yes, I realize those are end of bench guys who shouldn't impede adding talent to the roster... but the point is they are in fact on the roster, taking up space... so the Spurs need to do something about them.

this. That's why I said I wouldn't mind sigingin 2-3 forwards this offseason. Like trade for KD and get me LaRavia and maybe even trade for PJ Washington or John Collins as well. A Champagnie type player is technically enough as your 4th guard behind Fox, Castle, Harper. Sign Sam Merill and we're good.

[scott]

For the "Hawks have no way to improve" crowd:

ATL has a $25MM TPE (the largest in the league) and reports are they intend to use it (Keith Smith, not one to peddle in click bait rumors, says he's heard buzz around the league this week around ATL and this exception). Something to keep an eye on. The Hawks have plenty of room under the tax and apron line to resign Caris Levert and use this TPE. Keith says ATL is a team to watch in the trade market.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

For the "Hawks have no way to improve" crowd:

ATL has a $25MM TPE (the largest in the league) and reports are they intend to use it (Keith Smith, not one to peddle in click bait rumors, says he's heard buzz around the league this week around ATL and this exception). Something to keep an eye on. The Hawks have plenty of room under the tax and apron line to resign Caris Levert and use this TPE. Keith says ATL is a team to watch in the trade market.

Barring other moves they have about 35 million below the tax, which won’t be enough to re-sign Levert, use the TE and MLE. It’s another option for them but they don’t have the space to use everything, rather it’ll be an either or situation.

Their biggest decision node will be whether they extend Trae or trade him. Then it goes from there.

[picnroll]

Could the Spurs move up to 8 by trading Vassel and 14 to Brooklyn and would it be worth it?

[Mr. Body]

Could the Spurs move up to 8 by trading Vassel and 14 to Brooklyn and would it be worth it?

No, Vassell isn't worth that much

[LeBowen]

As I wrote before, the thing I'm most interested in are cheap rotation players and reclamation projects.

Dort, Caruso, Wiggins, Joe, Nembhard, McConnell.

SRP/undrafted players competing for a championship tonight.
We need a couple more of those.

[Ice009]

How many first round picks would Vassell be worth if the Spurs tried to trade him outright? Just the one? His contract isn't too bad and he's shown he can play when he's the first or second option, but obviously shouldn't be either of those on a winning team looking to make a deep run.

[LeBowen]

Let's give it another shot.

Trade #1:

Spurs: PJ Washington, Gafford (If both agree to an extension right away and it's not more than 40ish million per year for both.)

Mavs: '30 swap returned, Jrue

Celtics: '28 swap returned, Vassell

Trade #2:

Keldon, #14 for Cam Johnson

Trade #3:

Barnes, Wesley, SRPs for John Collins

Fox/Harper
Castle/Champagnie
Cam/Sochan
Washington/Collins
Wemby/Gafford

With full MLE also available.
We can even skip the John Collins trade as it'd be a bit of an overkill.
Or the Cam Johnson trade.
Throw the MLE at NAW, Merrill or LaRavia in that case and draft the highest ceiling wing with #14, he wouldn't have to contribute right away.

But my priority would be getting Washington and Gafford since Mavs have Flagg/AD/Lively and there's no reason for either of them to extend there.
No minutes at SF, either. Klay/Marshall/Martin.

[HankChinaski]

Screw trading for Cam Johnson. Not worth it.

I have been wanting John Collins at the 4 this off-season though.

[scott]

I want a Santi S&T.

Work your magic, Brian.

[TD 21]

I know the drawbacks (namely the back/being spacey), but Porter Jr. is the best fit. He's basically a worse Durant, minus the shot creation.

Every other option being bandied about is either too expensive on multiple fronts (Markkanen), too small (Washington, Johnson) or a big lacking wing skills (Collins), etc.

The Nuggets need depth and the Spurs need a consolidation trade. There's various iterations that include absorbing either Nnaji's relative albatross or Saric that could make sense . . .

Vassell, Barnes, 2nd(s)

Vassell, Champagnie, Branham/Wesley, 2nd(s).

Vassell, Johnson, 2nd(s)

Barnes, Johnson, 14

[LeBowen]

I mentioned MPJ during the season, I wouldn't mind him because he's surely better than the friendship crew and his contract has only two years left, so it's not like we'd be putting ourselves in a bad situation.
But it's not happening.
I don't want to be RC_Drunkford :lol, but an actual source I'm inclined to believe in told me that the Nuggets have been trying to trade him all year long and that everyone just hangs up on them because of his medical record.

Washington isn't too small in most matchups, he plays bigger than MPJ.

[SpursFan86]

I know the drawbacks (namely the back/being spacey), but Porter Jr. is the best fit. He's basically a worse Durant, minus the shot creation.

Every other option being bandied about is either too expensive on multiple fronts (Markkanen), too small (Washington, Johnson) or a big lacking wing skills (Collins), etc.

The Nuggets need depth and the Spurs need a consolidation trade. There's various iterations that include absorbing either Nnaji's relative albatross or Saric that could make sense . . .

Vassell, Barnes, 2nd(s)

Vassell, Champagnie, Branham/Wesley, 2nd(s).

Vassell, Johnson, 2nd(s)

Barnes, Johnson, 14

Ehh. I don’t disagree that he’s the right player archetype-wise, but I really don’t think he’s worth giving up the packages you’re mentioning. Especially not considering he’s owed close to $80MM over the next 2 years.

[Ice009]

No, not interested in MPJ. His injuries might be too risky. Would much rather have someone like PJ Washington.

[TD 21]

Ehh. I don’t disagree that he’s the right player archetype-wise, but I really don’t think he’s worth giving up the packages you’re mentioning. Especially not considering he’s owed close to $80MM over the next 2 years.

Fair enough, but how much less do you think a relatively young version of this coveted archetype is going for?

[TimDunkem]

I’ll have to admit I haven’t seen much of him, aside from the playoffs. Are folks thinking he’s the solution at SF?

Poach the Twolves of Reid and Nickeil. Try and poach Filipowski and Sensabaugh from the Jazz too.

I dont know how viable any of that is as I dont really pay much attention to the cap or contracts anymore. Just throwing shit at the wall.

[DPG21920]

Everyone just given up on Naz Reid?

I would poke around New Orleans though. Either via a trade up to 7 if there’s a guy Spurs love there like Kon (maybe Devin + 14 for CJ + 7 if NO would prefer to get a younger player?) or is Herb + 23 available for Keldon + 14?

[bigzak25]

To set the record straight, I'd still trade for Giannis (keep #2, Castle, Wemby *duh, and Fox)

But would pass on KD.

[bigzak25]

.

[cd98]

I wonder if the Jazz will be more reasonable in trades now that Ainge's son is taking over. I think they did that to fix the reputation of them commanding a pound of flesh for every trade. I think the Jazz have some interesting players that are gettable as they rebuild.

[objective]

MPJ would be a huge disaster. Too injury prone for the money, serious injuries.

Collins would be much better. The only thing he supposedly has on Collins, 3 point shooting, you can't even count on in the playoffs. He shot 34% on 5 attempts a game this year ... And Collins in his last playoff year shot .... 34% on 5 attempts a game

Even in Denver's title year, Porter only shot 35%

Neither one passes the ball more than adequately. But everything else: rebounds, steals, blocks, all favor Collins.

And what I like most about Collins: he moves, he's a an opportunistic cutter. He's not standing around waiting for a Jokic pass, he's active and gets himself open looks at the rim with his off ball work. He's going to be feasting with the Spurs.

[cd98]

I still think Sochan and Vassell have good value in this league. Vassell's contract will be fine with the salary cap increasing. I remember Zach Lowe saying it was a good contract when Vassell signed it. He said a lot of people will gripe about how much he gets paid, but when you look at how the salary cap is projected to grow, it is a reasonable contract. Last year he shot .368 from 3 point range. That's a little above league average. He was recognized as a good team defender when he came in the league and I see that he still has that potential. 6'5 guards in the NBA that can shoot .368 from 3 point land tend to stick around in this league and maybe he took Kobe shots too much, he did make quite a few and at times in the clutch, but nothing about his form needs fixing. It's a lot easier to teach shot selection than to teach a player to shoot 36% from 3.

I think Sochan is underrated here too. Yes, his value is tied to his ability to shoot 3s, but no doubt if he was on a team that didn't have miserable shooting like the Spurs, he would be an asset because of his defense, reasonable ball handling for his position, and hustle plays. Obviously he was valuable enough that the Spurs wouldn't include him in a Durant trade. I don't know that he will stick on the Spurs because of our terrible overall shooting, but I do think he has good value around the league.

[tbdog]

I wonder if the spurs can turn to. Hawks Johnson with those Hawks picks. He kinda is the perfect PF for Wemby.

[poopbox]

I wonder if the spurs can turn to. Hawks Johnson with those Hawks picks. He kinda is the perfect PF for Wemby.

Hawks are probably trying to add to their team so I doubt Johnson is available.

[RC_Drunkford]

Spurs should revisit this ASAP, before the Lakers get him. According to Jazz reporters the asking price is low, so it would most likely not involve a first. Trade down from #14 or a gang of second rounders for that type of player is a bargain. And Hardy knows the friendship crew. Send him Keldon and Branham to match salary. Collins would immediately be the 3rd best player on the roster.

1935383431606845784

[Pauleta14]

What part of "The Spurs like their young core" don't you get, guys?

As depressing as it is you should stop expecting any move away from Vassell or Sochan in particular.

My guess if moving them would be like PATFO admitting either their bad scouting or even worse player's development.

Oh, we also have a rookie coach that needs to learn the job for a few years...

[RC_Drunkford]

I want a Santi S&T.

Work your magic, Brian.

I don't know if we can do that. He was the 30th pick in the Primo draft. That would be like Brian Wright admitting he fucked up having #12

[objective]

Spurs should revisit this ASAP, before the Lakers get him. According to Jazz reporters the asking price is low, so it would most likely not involve a first. Trade down from #14 or a gang of second rounders for that type of player is a bargain. And Hardy knows the friendship crew. Send him Keldon and Branham to match salary. Collins would immediately be the 3rd best player on the roster.

1935383431606845784

This is the way.

I've posted it before and I'll keep posting it: he is an awesome cutter and mover who is a great opportunist at getting and presenting himself open and in a position to score. And on top of that he can hit his threes and rebound.

If anyone watches some of his highlight videos with the Jazz, it's absurd how often be was able to get open for shots at the rim and that's with Jazz lottery bums being responsible for getting him the ball. On the Spurs with Wemby, Fox, Castle, and Harper looking for him? Forget about it!

[kobyz]

Wizards very interested in Harper, i would trade #2 for Bilal Culibaly and #6

[mo7888]

Wizards very interested in Harper, i would trade #2 for Bilal Culibaly and #6

I wouldn't trade Harper for ⁶ + Bilal + Sarr... you give me that package + 2026 1st unprotected and I at least have a discussion with the rest of the team about it...and might still say no..

[szkorhetz]

Wizards very interested in Harper, i would trade #2 for Bilal Culibaly and #6
:lmao

[Ice009]

Wizards very interested in Harper, i would trade #2 for Bilal Culibaly and #6

What a terrible trade. I wouldn't even consider it for a nanosecond.

[John B]

Spurs should revisit this ASAP, before the Lakers get him. According to Jazz reporters the asking price is low, so it would most likely not involve a first. Trade down from #14 or a gang of second rounders for that type of player is a bargain. And Hardy knows the friendship crew. Send him Keldon and Branham to match salary. Collins would immediately be the 3rd best player on the roster.

1935383431606845784


Vassell needs to be moved for obvious reasons. And John Collins is a good target either swap or via 3rd team who needs a shooting guard to send multiple FRP’s to Jazz.

[RC_Drunkford]

Vassell needs to be moved for obvious reasons. And John Collins is a good target either swap or via 3rd team who needs a shooting guard to send multiple FRP’s to Jazz.

multiple first round picks? Did you read the tweet?

[TimDunkem]

Why is John B always a year or two behind in his takes? Smh

[kobyz]

I wouldn't trade Harper for ⁶ + Bilal + Sarr... you give me that package + 2026 1st unprotected and I at least have a discussion with the rest of the team about it...and might still say no..

So we starting to overblown Harper?

[LeBowen]

So we starting to overblown Harper?

I wonder how some of you people make it through life without going bankrupt on daily basis, tbh.

[John B]

Why is John B always a year or two behind in his takes? Smh

Haha coz I actually have a daytime job??

Even better then with not having to send the FRP’s to Jazz. Maybe use it to move up from #14 for Sorber or whoever the Spurs target. Or move up #38 to get Reynaud, Fleming?? I seriously think the Spurs are high on either Sorber or a future Wemby front court pair, as not to pursue the KD trade.

[spurraider21]

I like NAW a lot as a player - but how does he fit on this team after we draft Harper, and especially if we haven't traded Vassell yet?

We seem to be creating quite the logjam of guards (Fox/Castle/Harper/Vassell/Wesley/Branham) and wings (Castle/Vassell/Champ/Keldon/Barnes/Sochan). We really need to thin out some of those ranks and turn those roster spots into forwards and bigs.

And before anyone comes and responds "yOu DoNt HaVe To WoRrY aBoUt BlAkE aNd BrAn" - yes, I realize those are end of bench guys who shouldn't impede adding talent to the roster... but the point is they are in fact on the roster, taking up space... so the Spurs need to do something about them.
seriously though, i dont consider blake and branham part of any logjam. i think about logjam in terms of rotational minute sto give out, not necessarily who is 14th or 15th on the roster.

and i like blake

[Chinook]

The idea that Vassell is worth multiple firsts is one of the weirdest memes to come out of this trade season so far. Dude's not even positive value now, and I say that as a dude who likes Devin more than the average STer and thinks the Spurs should keep him for another year.

[spurraider21]

To set the record straight, I'd still trade for Giannis (keep #2, Castle, Wemby *duh, and Fox).
to set the record straight, this means you wouldnt still trade for Giannis

[John B]

The idea that Vassell is worth multiple firsts is one of the weirdest memes to come out of this trade season so far. Dude's not even positive value now, and I say that as a dude who likes Devin more than the average STer and thinks the Spurs should keep him for another year.

STer talk down on their own Spurs players, but would be surprised how other teams view them. Great example was Tre and Zollins last season with the Bulls. I certainly think Vassell would pitch several FRP’s and it’s best now before his reduced minutes with Harper coming.

[Chinook]

STer talk down on their own Spurs players, but would be surprised how other teams view them. Great example was Tre and Zollins last season with the Bulls. I certainly think Vassell would pitch several FRP’s and it’s best now before his reduced minutes with Harper coming.

ST has a long-running issue of trying to trade away bad players for value and avoid trading good ones. That's what is happening here, not folks talking down Vassell. A Devin worth two firsts would not be on the way out for Castle or Harper. There are plenty of minutes for them and Fox right now. A guy worth two firsts and who's locked up for four more years on a decreasing contract is a steal. Devin has to improve substantially to reach that point. I think he can do it, but if they want to move him this summer, they'd be lucky to get out of the deal without having to add picks.

I agree on Jones and Collins being good players, but at best they had neutral value last year and probably had negative considering the trade.

[LeBowen]

STer talk down on their own Spurs players, but would be surprised how other teams view them. Great example was Tre and Zollins last season with the Bulls. I certainly think Vassell would pitch several FRP’s and it’s best now before his reduced minutes with Harper coming.

We went over it a couple of times and the general consensus was that Magic were the best fit for Devin.
But they got Bane.

Which team do you think could use Devin and is a good partner for the Spurs if we're talking assets we get in return? Even if it's a three team trade.

[cd98]

Jazz could use Vassell and no, not bc they are tanking.

[CGD]

We went over it a couple of times and the general consensus was that Magic were the best fit for Devin.
But they got Bane.

Which team do you think could use Devin and is a good partner for the Spurs if we're talking assets we get in return? Even if it's a three team trade.

Orlando was the cleanest fit in my view. The other is/was Cleveland, in my view, if they ever decided to break-up the Garland-Mitchell backcourt. But not sure that's in the cards with the East being wide open next season.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

How can anyone watch Haliburton go down and think we should sit comfortably with two ball handlers? Come on people, depth and multiple attacking guards is the way.

[scott]

We went over it a couple of times and the general consensus was that Magic were the best fit for Devin.
But they got Bane.

Which team do you think could use Devin and is a good partner for the Spurs if we're talking assets we get in return? Even if it's a three team trade.

Spot on, and I'll add further to this, it has to be a team that could use Devin *and* is willing to PAY to acquire players (meaning they aren't in rebuild mode, because rebuilding teams aren't sending out picks for guys like Devin just like the Spurs weren't spending picks to trade for guys while they were rebuilding).

That eliminates about a third of the league. Devin could potentially be a nice addition for a playoff team who needs a boost of shooting/scoring... those are the kinds of teams that spend their draft capital to acquire guys. Like you mentioned, Orlando fit that description, but now they are off the table.

I could potentially see Memphis to replace Bane *if* they felt they could still make a playoff run (who knows what their current mindset is, since it sounds like they aren't planning on keeping Santi). Downgrading Bane to Vassell put picking up multiple FRPs to do so wouldn't be bad business, honestly... but what is MEM thinking?

Unless we can get a clean swap out for a forward, I think it makes most sense to see how Devin does in a 3&D role with improved talent around him and what we hope will be some good defensive coaching from our staff additions. I don't know that he'll necessarily become any more of a negative asset by the trade deadline, but there is a chance he either becomes a nice fit as a 3&D wing for us or he improves his trade value.

[Kevin]

Dev's a horrible defender. He's gotten worse at defense as the years go by. Good shooter and not much else entering year six.

[scott]

seriously though, i dont consider blake and branham part of any logjam. i think about logjam in terms of rotational minute sto give out, not necessarily who is 14th or 15th on the roster.

and i like blake

Blake and Bran combine for 0 core rotation minutes... wo while they aren't part of the logjam, removing them also doesn't do anything about the logjam.

So... the question remains... how does NAW fit on a team with the players I just mentioned? Where is he getting minutes from?

[RC_Drunkford]

Blake and Bran combine for 0 core rotation minutes... wo while they aren't part of the logjam, removing them also doesn't do anything about the logjam.

So... the question remains... how does NAW fit on a team with the players I just mentioned? Where is he getting minutes from?

NAW doesn't make sense here with Devin still on the team. I just want forwards. John Collins, Santi Aldama, PJ Washington, Jake LaRavia. Get me 2 of those.

[spurraider21]

Blake and Bran combine for 0 core rotation minutes... wo while they aren't part of the logjam, removing them also doesn't do anything about the logjam.

So... the question remains... how does NAW fit on a team with the players I just mentioned? Where is he getting minutes from?
i think thats fair, and in one of the other threads i mentioned that while i like NAW, i would prefer Laravia for that very reason.

i think the "Castle is a SF" stuff has legs to it. you could easily have NAW and Castle play the 2/3 together. there are plenty of lineups where NAW himself can guard 3's, as long as they're not particularly burly ones. he has solid length, he's just skinny

[scott]

NAW doesn't make sense here with Devin still on the team. I just want forwards. John Collins, Santi Aldama, PJ Washington, Jake LaRavia. Get me 2 of those.

Yep... that's what I was getting at. I like NAW a lot, but until some of the rest of our roster is cleared out I don't see how we could make him a priority FA signing.

I also really like Jake (and have been touting him as long as anyone on this site), but I'm a little concerned about how he fits as well unless we move out from some of Keldon/Champ/Vassell/Barnes. Jake isn't really a 3/4, he's more of a pure 3. The other 3 guys you mention all fit nicely at the 4 for us.

As much as we may not like it, we have to assume that if the Spurs are keeping the PoF around, it's to actually play them in significant - not just have them sit on the end of the bench.

[scott]

i think thats fair, and in one of the other threads i mentioned that while i like NAW, i would prefer Laravia for that very reason.

i think the "Castle is a SF" stuff has legs to it. you could easily have NAW and Castle play the 2/3 together. there are plenty of lineups where NAW himself can guard 3's, as long as they're not particularly burly ones. he has solid length, he's just skinny

I agree with this (and Castle is a SF, for the record)... but the role you are casting for NAW here is likely just played by Vassell so long as he is on the team, right?

[RC_Drunkford]

Yep... that's what I was getting at. I like NAW a lot, but until some of the rest of our roster is cleared out I don't see how we could make him a priority FA signing.

I also really like Jake (and have been touting him as long as anyone on this site), but I'm a little concerned about how he fits as well unless we move out from some of Keldon/Champ/Vassell/Barnes. Jake isn't really a 3/4, he's more of a pure 3. The other 3 guys you mention all fit nicely at the 4 for us.

As much as we may not like it, we have to assume that if the Spurs are keeping the PoF around, it's to actually play them in significant - not just have them sit on the end of the bench.

the crazy thing is NAW would probably go for the MLE, which is half of Devin's contract :lol

I want those forwards on 4-year deals as long term pieces. I think those contracts could be gold down the line with the cap going up every year.

Of course Barnes and Keldon gotta go, or at least one of them. The Branham's and Wesley's of the world can also be used to match salary. The reason I want LaRavia is cause he's cheap and you could just sign him with parts of the MLE.

Then you trade for John Collins, PJ or sign and trade for Aldama.

[scott]

the crazy thing is NAW would probably go for the MLE, which is half of Devin's contract :lol

I want those forwards on 4-year deals as long term pieces. I think those contracts could be gold down the line with the cap going up every year.

Yeah... Devin's contract looks worse and worse when you put him in the context of a non-starter. If he could be a high end 6th man, the contract isn't too bad but anything short of that... woof.

[LeBowen]

Of course Barnes and Keldon gotta go, or at least one of them.

If we're making smaller moves and not getting a legit wing, Barnes needs to stay.
Yeah, he's declining and is a bad defender, but he shot 6% better from 3pt than any other regular rotation player.
We can't afford to lose him unless we add two elite shooters, spacing would be completely fucked.

I said it as soon as we got him, I see him as this team's Finley, I'd gladly keep him until he retires if he accepts a cheap extension.
With CP3 leaving, Barnes is the only true veteran on the roster and he's one of the better role models for young players in the league. His presence goes beyond his basketball ability.
We're probably not getting any older players, I don't think having soon-to-be 28 year old Fox as the oldest player is a good idea.

[mo7888]

I'm fully in the trade Devin and sign NAW camp

[TimDunkem]

NAW and Reid please. Jazz has a bunch of young, interesting players as well.

[RC_Drunkford]

If we're making smaller moves and not getting a legit wing, Barnes needs to stay.
Yeah, he's declining and is a bad defender, but he shot 6% better from 3pt than any other regular rotation player.
We can't afford to lose him unless we add two elite shooters, spacing would be completely fucked.

I said it as soon as we got him, I see him as this team's Finley, I'd gladly keep him until he retires if he accepts a cheap extension.
With CP3 leaving, Barnes is the only true veteran on the roster and he's one of the better role models for young players in the league. His presence goes beyond his basketball ability.
We're probably not getting any older players, I don't think having soon-to-be 28 year old Fox as the oldest player is a good idea.

Yeah I‘d trade Keldon first. The thing is we‘re probably only going to get one forward then because Devin starts at SF, Jeremy and Barnes need bench minutes. So John Collins or Aldama can be the starting PF. Which is kinda stupid because you can sign LaRavia and Yabusele for nothing, but do you want to convince them to be third stringers?

[BatManu20]

1937262124667142470

[Dejounte]

I thought we were using the other thread for spurs offseason talk. Did i misread

[RC_Drunkford]

I really hope we are not going for RJ Barrett. There were rumors about this a couple of weeks ago. Unless we could somehow trade up to 9…

[mo7888]

I really hope we are not going for RJ Barrett. There were rumors about this a couple of weeks ago. Unless we could somehow trade up to 9…

You thinking RJ + 9 for Devin + 14?

[CGD]

1937262124667142470

Spurs had been linked to him, right?

[CGD]

You thinking RJ + 9 for Devin + 14?

You do this if there is a target in mind. Issue is I don’t have a sense of RJ’s game vis-a-vis Dev. Is Dev’s descending contract appealing to Toronto, who has cap issues?

[RC_Drunkford]

No I‘m thinking Keldon, Branham and 14 for Barrett and 9.

Either Keldon or Barnes. Now Barrett has improved a lot on the Raptors and his stock still dropped. His 3-point shooting is ok. He‘s only shooting 35%, but on high volume. What worries me is the 63% FT shooting. He made huge leaps playmaking wise.

Raptors want to move him because they are only 9 million below the tax. Question is what is their asking price? It should be low, but I think we might have to throw in a future first.
This would be a way to grab Maluach.

I wouldn’t even hate this move. If we get Aldama or John Collins in another trade that would be a really nice 10-man rotation.

[mystargtr34]

You thinking RJ + 9 for Devin + 14?

I’m doing that in a heartbeat if I’m the Spurs. Don’t think the Raps would.

RJ is no world beater but he’s better than Devin imo and contracts are similar. And he fits better being able to play the 3 with his size.

[mo7888]

You do this if there is a target in mind. Issue is I don’t have a sense of RJ’s game vis-a-vis Dev. Is Dev’s descending contract appealing to Toronto, who has cap issues?

Yeah...the 2 year shorter contract opens up a few more options for us and the descending figure on Devin's should appeal to them.

[mo7888]

No I‘m thinking Keldon, Branham and 14 for Barrett and 9.

Either Keldon or Barnes. Now Barrett has improved a lot on the Raptors and his stock still dropped. His 3-point shooting is ok. He‘s only shooting 35%, but on high volume. What worries me is the 63% FT shooting. He made huge leaps playmaking wise.

Raptors want to move him because they are only 9 million below the tax. Question is what is their asking price? It should be low, but I think we might have to throw in a future first.
This would be a way to grab Maluach.

There's no world where I'd give a future 1st to move up 5 spots.

[RC_Drunkford]

There's no world where I'd give a future 1st to move up 5 spots.

me neither. The first would be for Barrett basically. As I said I have no clue what they want. Maybe 2nd rounders get the job done.

I don’t think it’s Vassell. He doesn’t save them salary. They could just waive Branham. Buy out Barnes. And the trade down saves them money too.

[$pursDynasty]

I am still beating the drum for Herb Jones, hopefully is injury drops his price, but an elite defensive presence is needed on the team, he would be who we would put on the SGA's and Luka's of the world and not worry about his defensive effort affecting what he gives us on offense but any offense we get from him would be seen as a bonus. Herb Jones would alleviate the need for out core players to possibly get in foul trouble covering the other teams best scorer. Maybe #38 and some future draft capitol, or maybe Sohan can get it done but tbh if you were to tell me we could get Herb Jones with #14, I would be surprised if we could land a player as good that could contribute as fast as Herb would.

[TD 21]

I’m doing that in a heartbeat if I’m the Spurs. Don’t think the Raps would.

RJ is no world beater but he’s better than Devin imo and contracts are similar. And he fits better being able to play the 3 with his size.

Barrett is literally the exact archetype the Spurs don't need. Big contract, high usage/low efficiency empty calories type and middling defender.

Sure, his 3/2 frame would fit better than Vassell's 2/3 frame at the 3, but that and the gap between 9 and 14 is not enough to offset the rest.

[mo7888]

I’m doing that in a heartbeat if I’m the Spurs. Don’t think the Raps would.

RJ is no world beater but he’s better than Devin imo and contracts are similar. And he fits better being able to play the 3 with his size.

It gets them a little future cap space wiggle room. If they need more now you might have to absorb another contract like ochai. The fit is better for both too, as you said.

[scott]

I thought we were using the other thread for spurs offseason talk. Did i misread

If you are referring to the NBA Offseason Thread... that is intended more for just general, around the league offseason updates - not just Spurs.

[RC_Drunkford]

Wasn‘t Barrett managed by Klutch Sports before he got traded to Canada?

[SpursFan86]

I really think the only wings we need are 3&D, low usage types. With our guard rotation + Wemby, it just seems unnecessary to add any more players that need the ball in their hands to really be valuable. Hard pass on Barrett tbh.

[scott]

No I‘m thinking Keldon, Branham and 14 for Barrett and 9.



Does Barrett have warrants out for his arrest in Canada? Why would TOR do this?

Why not just trade Keldon, Branham and 14 for Giannis?

[RC_Drunkford]

Does Barrett have warrants out for his arrest in Canada? Why would TOR do this?

Why not just trade Keldon, Branham and 14 for Giannis?

Raptors have 178 Million on the books before the draft for a bunch of mediocre players. Luxury tax line is 187. They already have Barnes and Ingram. They don’t need Barrett. I just don’t know what they want in return.

[scott]

Raptors have 178 Million on the books before the draft for a bunch of mediocre players. Luxury tax line is 187. They already have Barnes and Ingram. They don’t need Barrett. I just don’t what they want.

Well they sure as fuck don't want Keldon and Branham, and certainly not enough to drop back 5 spots for the privilege.

[RC_Drunkford]

That‘s why I‘m saying they might want future draft capital added to that. I don’t expect any team to value our garbage. I just hope this ain‘t the move the Spurs want to make while letting KD go to the Rockets. I might destroy my TV on draft night if this happens.

[poopbox]

I wonder how some of you people make it through life without going bankrupt on daily basis, tbh.

I wonder the same thing about you people who somehow have Harper pegged as some future franchise player but in real life he couldn't even get Rutgers to a .500 record.

[LeBowen]

I wonder the same thing about you people who somehow have Harper pegged as some future franchise player but in real life he couldn't even get Rutgers to a .500 record.

You're making an early candidacy for the worst spurstalk user of the season, tbh.

[mo7888]

Fox, Harper
Castle, NAW
RJ,
Santi or Collins/Sochan
Wemby/Maluach

[scott]

Fox, Harper
Castle, NAW
RJ,
Santi or Collins/Sochan
Wemby/Maluach

That's not bad at all... and you successfully shipped out Vasselldon in one offseason... but this wouldn't be my favorite offseason. Wouldn't hate it though.

[tbdog]

Sorry, RJ Barrett? No way. He is a 2 playing the 3. He is a so so shooter. Below avg defender. Needs self creation.

[bigzak25]

to set the record straight, this means you wouldnt still trade for Giannis

I trust the Spurs to do what they think is best.

[spurraider21]

Mavs extended gafford so we can stop pretending they will trade him away for cheap now

Davis has been very clear about not liking playing C and Dallas will go out of their way to placate him

[T Park]

I’m doing that in a heartbeat if I’m the Spurs. Don’t think the Raps would.

RJ is no world beater but he’s better than Devin imo and contracts are similar. And he fits better being able to play the 3 with his size.

Doing that to get Barrett and then drafting Malauch would be a hell of a move.

100% doubt Toronto would do it however

[CGD]

Does Barrett have warrants out for his arrest in Canada? Why would TOR do this?

Why not just trade Keldon, Branham and 14 for Giannis?

I think there is a trade for Barrett if the Spurs want it. I definitely don’t think it involves #9 though.

[CGD]

I still think the Cavs are a key team to watch. Spurs could get involved in basic framework like this:

Team X: Garland
CLE: Vassell
SAS: Player

[DPG21920]

SA Gets: Claxton + Cam Johnson

BKY Gets: Vassell + Keldon + Branham + 14 + 5 2nds

If BKY views Vassell as equal to Claxton, does Keldon + 14 + 5 2nds get Cam?

[T Park]

SA Gets: Claxton + Cam Johnson

BKY Gets: Vassell + Keldon + Branham + 14 + 5 2nds

If BKY views Vassell as equal to Claxton, does Keldon + 14 + 5 2nds get Cam?


I’d be all for this if Claxton;’s contract wasnt awful

[DPG21920]

I’d be all for this if Claxton;’s contract wasnt awful

It’s not that bad IMO and its part of the reason why you can get this deal done using only 1 first + Dev + Keldon

[Chinook]

Someone on RGM mentioned Castle for Coulibaly. RGM is pretty down on Castle, so a number of poster there thought it made sense. I don't agree, even though I'm more skeptical of Steph than most folks on this site are. However, I did wonder about Castle and 14 for Coulibaly and 6. If you assume 6 becomes Malauach and 14 becomes Sorber, it seems like the kind of deal that could turn out to be a steal for either team. I don't think this is the right move for the Spurs, but if they do secretly worry about the fit of Fox, Castle and Harper, I like a deal like this much more than deals where the Spurs trade down from 2 or turn Fox into a smaller package than they sent out for him.

Fox, Harper
Vassell, Champagnie
Coulibaly, Johnson
Barnes, Sochan
Wembanyama, Malauach

They'd still have their MLE, picks and multiple tradeable contracts to keep building that roster. Personally, I'd want a third perimeter play-maker in that lineup, They'd definitely need a that third-string PG to be someone who could handle real rotation minutes. But the defense would be really interesting with 48 minutes of strong center play and a wing who specializes in defense. The shooting doesn't get more improved, though if Barnes starts, it's probably viable for the first unit. The second unit is really relying on one of Sochan or Malauach to make a big leap this year.

[RC_Drunkford]

watched some Locked on Raptors to understand what they want in a return for Barrett. Apparently they either want a rotation upgrade or 2 offball shooters. Suggested trades were:

Barrett and #9 for Cam Johnson and #19 (lmao)

Barrett and #9 for Trey Murphy

Barrett and #9 for Sabonis


It's save to say his perceived value ain't that high. If there's such a trade with the Spurs and #9 I'd assume either Brooklyn or Utah (Lauri) would be involved with the Spurs sending them future draft capital to get it done.

[tbdog]

https://imgur.com/a/MANIIEr

Can't teach this. Castle just seems to know how to play. Learning to shoot turns him into a stud. That's perhaps his only question going into year 2.

[RC_Drunkford]

Barrett would basically be a better Keldon.

Better shooter, defender (although still not a positive) and playmaker. Same driving ability with more length, IQ and upside.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Someone on RGM mentioned Castle for Coulibaly. RGM is pretty down on Castle, so a number of poster there thought it made sense. I don't agree, even though I'm more skeptical of Steph than most folks on this site are. However, I did wonder about Castle and 14 for Coulibaly and 6. If you assume 6 becomes Malauach and 14 becomes Sorber, it seems like the kind of deal that could turn out to be a steal for either team. I don't think this is the right move for the Spurs, but if they do secretly worry about the fit of Fox, Castle and Harper, I like a deal like this much more than deals where the Spurs trade down from 2 or turn Fox into a smaller package than they sent out for him.

Fox, Harper
Vassell, Champagnie
Coulibaly, Johnson
Barnes, Sochan
Wembanyama, Malauach

They'd still have their MLE, picks and multiple tradeable contracts to keep building that roster. Personally, I'd want a third perimeter play-maker in that lineup, They'd definitely need a that third-string PG to be someone who could handle real rotation minutes. But the defense would be really interesting with 48 minutes of strong center play and a wing who specializes in defense. The shooting doesn't get more improved, though if Barnes starts, it's probably viable for the first unit. The second unit is really relying on one of Sochan or Malauach to make a big leap this year.

I presume you want to give away Castle because of his lack of shooting (28.5% 3P%). What a brilliant idea it is to replace him with a 28.1% 3P% (in 2025) in Bilal Coulibaly!

Castle has his flaws, but he is still better than someone like Coulibaly and the difference between the 6th and 14th pick in this draft isnt that big to overcome that difference between Castle and Coulibaly.

[LeBowen]

I presume you want to give away Castle because of his lack of shooting (28.5% 3P%). What a brilliant idea it is to replace him with a 28.1% 3P% (in 2025) in Bilal Coulibaly!

Castle has his flaws, but he is still better than someone like Coulibaly and the difference between the 6th and 14th pick in this draft is that big to overcome that difference between Castle and Coulibaly.

He wants to give away Castle because he's one of those people who want to make trades for the sake of making trades.
And he often goes in-depth with ideas that make no sense whatsoever.


Onto more realistic ideas...

Gafford's extension means PJ Washington is the odd man out, according to Mavs fans. They don't really see him as a SF and Mavs already have a logjam at forwards.

Gafford/Lively take all the C minutes.
Flagg will take those ~15 minutes at PF when AD sits, while obviously being the starting SF.
But then they also have Klay who's too slow to play SG and I doubt Nico will ditch him. He's an idiot, but he's loyal to the players he personally acquired.
They also have Marshall and Martin at SF.

Over the cap team with PJ Washington being an expiring contract.
He's due $14.15M in this upcoming season, we'd need $10.6M to make the trade legal.
Too bad Branham and Wesley add up to only $9.67M and Bassey is a free agent.

Meaning it would either have to be Keldon or Barnes going the other way, but Mavs don't need either.
Mavs would need to find a third team that has a PG for them with us sending one of Keldon/Barnes out and returning '30 swap in exchange for PJ Washington.
That swap lost a lot of value with Mavs winning the lottery, but is still a good pick. Washington is definitely worth a solid FRP if he agrees to an extension in 18 to 23 million a year range.

[RC_Drunkford]

He wants to give away Castle because he's one of those people who want to make trades for the sake of making trades.
And he often goes in-depth with ideas that make no sense whatsoever.


Onto more realistic ideas...

Gafford's extension means PJ Washington is the odd man out, according to Mavs fans. They don't really see him as a SF and Mavs already have a logjam at forwards.

Gafford/Lively take all the C minutes.
Flagg will take those ~15 minutes at PF when AD sits, while obviously being the starting SF.
But then they also have Klay who's too slow to play SG and I doubt Nico will ditch him. He's an idiot, but he's loyal to the players he personally acquired.
They also have Marshall and Martin at SF.

Over the cap team with PJ Washington being an expiring contract.
He's due $14.15M in this upcoming season, we'd need $10.6M to make the trade legal.
Too bad Branham and Wesley add up to only $9.67M and Bassey is a free agent.

Meaning it would either have to be Keldon or Barnes going the other way, but Mavs don't need either.
Mavs would need to find a third team that has a PG for them with us sending one of Keldon/Barnes out and returning '30 swap in exchange for PJ Washington.
That swap lost a lot of value with Mavs winning the lottery, but is still a good pick. Washington is definitely worth a solid FRP if he agrees to an extension in 18 to 23 million a year range.

I hate his contract. It's just 50k over the MLE, otherwise we could absorb his salary. Those 50k now make you have to work out a whole trade where salaries gotta match. :lol

Of course I'd love to have him on the team regardless.

[poopbox]

I presume you want to give away Castle because of his lack of shooting (28.5% 3P%). What a brilliant idea it is to replace him with a 28.1% 3P% (in 2025) in Bilal Coulibaly!

Castle has his flaws, but he is still better than someone like Coulibaly and the difference between the 6th and 14th pick in this draft is that big to overcome that difference between Castle and Coulibaly.

How exactly is Castle better than Coulibaly? Because most of Coulibaly defensive metrics are better than Castle's, and Coulibaly doesn't have Victor anchoring any of his defenisve minutes. Castle is easily a better passer, but that is it.

It's obvious you guys don't remotely watch any player who doesn't wear a spurs jersey, because I cannot even begin to fathom how anyone could watch Castle and Coulibaly play and walk away from that saying "oh yeah no doubt Castle is better it's a no brainer i would never ever trade Coulibaly for him"

If the Wizards added enough draft capital or say Sarr I would easily trade Caste for him. It would legit just be like trading to guys who are very similar AND you get a blue chip prospect like Sarr and/or another pick.

[poopbox]

Barrett would basically be a better Keldon.

Better shooter, defender (although still not a positive) and playmaker. Same driving ability with more length, IQ and upside.

I would fucking hope so he makes 8 or 9 million more than Keldon does.

[LeBowen]

How exactly is Castle better than Coulibaly? Because most of Coulibaly defensive metrics are better than Castle's, and Coulibaly doesn't have Victor anchoring any of his defenisve minutes. Castle is easily a better passer, but that is it.

It's obvious you guys don't remotely watch any player who doesn't wear a spurs jersey, because I cannot even begin to fathom how anyone could watch Castle and Coulibaly play and walk away from that saying "oh yeah no doubt Castle is better it's a no brainer i would never ever trade Coulibaly for him"

If the Wizards added enough draft capital or say Sarr I would easily trade Caste for him. It would legit just be like trading to guys who are very similar AND you get a blue chip prospect like Sarr and/or another pick.

And what exactly would #14+Castle for #6+Coulibaly accomplish?
We need 2 point guards (Fox, Harper) and 2 more solid ballhandlers (Castle, ?, as of now it's unfortunately Keldon) because as we've seen this season, our biggest issue was not having players capable of attacking the paint. It was just Castle until we got Fox, but then he got shut down a few games in. With Keldon doing his "tunnel vision and hope for the best" drives.

Lose Castle to get Coulibaly and Maluach and we're back at Vassell pounding the ball for 10+ seconds every time he gets it.

[Ice009]

Someone on RGM mentioned Castle for Coulibaly. RGM is pretty down on Castle, so a number of poster there thought it made sense. I don't agree, even though I'm more skeptical of Steph than most folks on this site are. However, I did wonder about Castle and 14 for Coulibaly and 6. If you assume 6 becomes Malauach and 14 becomes Sorber, it seems like the kind of deal that could turn out to be a steal for either team. I don't think this is the right move for the Spurs, but if they do secretly worry about the fit of Fox, Castle and Harper, I like a deal like this much more than deals where the Spurs trade down from 2 or turn Fox into a smaller package than they sent out for him.

Fox, Harper
Vassell, Champagnie
Coulibaly, Johnson
Barnes, Sochan
Wembanyama, Malauach

They'd still have their MLE, picks and multiple tradeable contracts to keep building that roster. Personally, I'd want a third perimeter play-maker in that lineup, They'd definitely need a that third-string PG to be someone who could handle real rotation minutes. But the defense would be really interesting with 48 minutes of strong center play and a wing who specializes in defense. The shooting doesn't get more improved, though if Barnes starts, it's probably viable for the first unit. The second unit is really relying on one of Sochan or Malauach to make a big leap this year.

Why the h%ll would you want to trade Castle for Coulibaly? Number #6 may not even amount to the player Castle is now, let alone the player he will be.

[scott]

He wants to give away Castle because he's one of those people who want to make trades for the sake of making trades.
And he often goes in-depth with ideas that make no sense whatsoever.




Nah, Chinook doesn't want to make trades for the sake of making trades... he just doesn't like Castle (it's become quite evident), which is fine, but he could also just say that.

[scott]

Onto more realistic ideas...

Gafford's extension means PJ Washington is the odd man out, according to Mavs fans. They don't really see him as a SF and Mavs already have a logjam at forwards.

Gafford/Lively take all the C minutes.
Flagg will take those ~15 minutes at PF when AD sits, while obviously being the starting SF.
But then they also have Klay who's too slow to play SG and I doubt Nico will ditch him. He's an idiot, but he's loyal to the players he personally acquired.
They also have Marshall and Martin at SF.

Over the cap team with PJ Washington being an expiring contract.
He's due $14.15M in this upcoming season, we'd need $10.6M to make the trade legal.
Too bad Branham and Wesley add up to only $9.67M and Bassey is a free agent.

Meaning it would either have to be Keldon or Barnes going the other way, but Mavs don't need either.
Mavs would need to find a third team that has a PG for them with us sending one of Keldon/Barnes out and returning '30 swap in exchange for PJ Washington.
That swap lost a lot of value with Mavs winning the lottery, but is still a good pick. Washington is definitely worth a solid FRP if he agrees to an extension in 18 to 23 million a year range.

TBH, it looks like Gafford's extension is less about keeping him and more about trading him. He's eligible to be traded immediately.

[mo7888]

Nah, Chinook doesn't want to make trades for the sake of making trades... he just doesn't like Castle (it's become quite evident), which is fine, but he could also just say that.

I think part of his problem with Castle is that he thinks we over estimate him here considering what his numbers look like and I think he's right. All of these takes about the future assuming Castle as a max player don't really make sense to me at this juncture. I mean, I hope it's a problem because he reaches his ceiling, but I can't expect it yet.

[LeBowen]

I think part of his problem with Castle is that he thinks we over estimate him here considering what his numbers look like and I think he's right. All of these takes about the future assuming Castle as a max player don't really make sense to me at this juncture. I mean, I hope it's a problem because he reaches his ceiling, but I can't expect it yet.

I don't think the stat-padding version of Castle we saw at the end of the season is the player Castle will become and I don't think he'll be a superstar, but wanting to trade him is just dumb.
He's got all the physical and more importantly mental tools to be an elite role player for us. He's shown considerable improvement over the course of the season and there's no reason to believe he won't get a lot better.

[mo7888]

I don't think the stat-padding version of Castle we saw at the end of the season is the player Castle will become and I don't think he'll be a superstar, but wanting to trade him is just dumb.
He's got all the physical and more importantly mental tools to be an elite role player for us. He's shown considerable improvement over the course of the season and there's no reason to believe he won't get a lot better.

I agree with your assessment of Castle. I also don't think Chinook just 'wants' to trade Castle for the sake of trading him, but I don't think he wants him off limits for the 'right' deal. Where i probably disagree with him (and he'd have to chime in to know for sure), is what the 'right' deal is. I wouldn't include him for anything less than a haul of players + picks or a real star. My guess is he would move him for less...but it's just a guess..

[scott]

I think part of his problem with Castle is that he thinks we over estimate him here considering what his numbers look like and I think he's right. All of these takes about the future assuming Castle as a max player don't really make sense to me at this juncture. I mean, I hope it's a problem because he reaches his ceiling, but I can't expect it yet.

Agreed, and I've been trying to pump the brakes on this myself... but I would say that there is as much promise with Castle as any other draft pick over the last few years other than the very elite of those (Wemby, Amen, Paolo). So while there is plenty about Castle's game as to not write his name into future all-star games in sharpie, there is reason to be as excited about Castle as there is anyone (in my very humble opinion)

[mo7888]

Agreed, and I've been trying to pump the brakes on this myself... but I would say that there is as much promise with Castle as any other draft pick over the last few years other than the very elite of those (Wemby, Amen, Paolo). So while there is plenty about Castle's game as to not write his name into future all-star games in sharpie, there is reason to be as excited about Castle as there is anyone (in my very humble opinion)

Agreed

[scott]

I agree with your assessment of Castle. I also don't think Chinook just 'wants' to trade Castle for the sake of trading him, but I don't think he wants him off limits for the 'right' deal. Where i probably disagree with him (and he'd have to chime in to know for sure), is what the 'right' deal is. I wouldn't include him for anything less than a haul of players + picks or a real star. My guess is he would move him for less...but it's just a guess..

Spot on, and I hope Chinook does weigh on on what he feels that right deal is like. While we may not agree, Chinook always brings thought-out reasoning to his take (which everyone is free to agree or disagree with) and I value his perspective (even if he may not think so :))

[Chinook]

And what exactly would #14+Castle for #6+Coulibaly accomplish?
We need 2 point guards (Fox, Harper) and 2 more solid ballhandlers (Castle, ?, as of now it's unfortunately Keldon) because as we've seen this season, our biggest issue was not having players capable of attacking the paint. It was just Castle until we got Fox, but then he got shut down a few games in. With Keldon doing his "tunnel vision and hope for the best" drives.

Lose Castle to get Coulibaly and Maluach and we're back at Vassell pounding the ball for 10+ seconds every time he gets it.


Nah, Chinook doesn't want to make trades for the sake of making trades... he just doesn't like Castle (it's become quite evident), which is fine, but he could also just say that.


I agree with your assessment of Castle. I also don't think Chinook just 'wants' to trade Castle for the sake of trading him, but I don't think he wants him off limits for the 'right' deal. Where i probably disagree with him (and he'd have to chime in to know for sure), is what the 'right' deal is. I wouldn't include him for anything less than a haul of players + picks or a real star. My guess is he would move him for less...but it's just a guess..

Personal feelings on Castle: I like him, but he needs to prove he's a star before he gets treated like one. In that regard, I wish someone else had won rookie of the year. I've been arguing with folks on RGM about Castle. As I mentioned, some people there really dislike him. Someone on there mentioned that his best-case scenario would be to have a Jrue Holiday --esque career where he is a low-level star with the Spurs and then redefines his career as a role-player with another team. My fear is basically that opposite -- that he'll spec into trying to be a star when the Spurs desperately need him to be the super role-player he can be. In other words, I don't want him to become another DeJounte Murray where he squanders his chance to become a legit difference-maker in lieu of chasing accolades.

The same is basically the same for Harper, except he's starting off from a better place to be a go-to scorer and seems to have a hidden talent for playing off the ball. He NEEDS to come in defending and hitting catch-and-shoot shots. No, I don't want the team to "prioritize" him in the sense that they pass up on a star like Durant so Harper can get 20 shots a night. That's very, very likely to result in a lottery-bound Spurs team. It's why I was so interested in Durant coming to the Spurs. Vassell, Castle and Harper all need to take a step back and learn to be good non-stars if the Spurs are going to make this core work. The team's done a miserable job recently of teaching guys to defend and shoot from distance. and that's simply unsustainable. I'd like a third veteran scorer on the roster to basically force the aforementioned three to adapt. Durant was far and away the best option for that. The other options for that list -- DeRozan and Harden -- are basically nightmare fuel.

I don't want the Spurs to trade Castle or Harper. Hell, I don't even want them to trade Vassell. The team is better off if those guys can make the pivot. I don't approach trades from the perspective of the team "getting rid of" bad players. That's dumb, and I've spoken out against that idea many times over the years. Trades are a means to improving the roster by adding talent that fits, and that is costly. I didn't want to do the Washington trade because I'm pretty meh on Coulibaly and haven't yet looked into Malauach enough to know if he'd be a game-changer for the Spurs. I agree that the Spurs should have another ball-handler in the lineup, and as I said, that would be something they'd have to chase with future moves. But if those guys are elite defensive pieces, and the Spurs can acquire that tertiary scorer, then that is a roster that could make a title run within the next two or three years -- and everyone is cheap enough to where you could keep it together that long. So even though I don't personally love the deal at all, I'd completely understand the logic for the team doing that.

In general, I'm mostly unwilling to trade the second-overall pick for anything (except the first-overall pick of course). I don't like Giannis and would never want him on the Spurs, and he's the only somewhat realistic target who'd warrant the pick's inclusion on value. I'm not particularly willing to deal Castle, but the standard for him is this: If the Spurs want something beyond what they want can get for 14 and future picks, and the other team sees Castle as the bulk of the value to make that happen, then I am okay with him being in the deal. So if they LOVE Coulibaly (and for the record, I don't think the Spurs covet him much at all and folks just assume that because he and Wemby are both French and played on a team together than they have a blood-brother bond or something) and have the choice of trading 2 for Coulibaly and 6 or Castle and 14 for Coulibaly and 6, I'd prefer the second deal.

I've yet to see a Castle trade that I like. However, I think the team should have a very clear line on guys they're willing to trade and guys they aren't. For me, Wemby, Fox and Harper are on one side of that line, and Castle is the first one of the other side of that line. He'd be by far the hardest person to get on that side, but he would still be theoretically gettable.

[Marcus Bryant]

Castle Harper and Wemby give you an under 21 nucleus to build around. There is nothing better than elite young NBA ready players on rookie contracts.

Spurs are acting like they’re playing the long game after lucking into the #2. That’s good. No pressure to immediately contend will lead to a much brighter future.

[scott]

Personal feelings on Castle: I like him, but he needs to prove he's a star before he gets treated like one. In that regard, I wish someone else had won rookie of the year. I've been arguing with folks on RGM about Castle. As I mentioned, some people there really dislike him. Someone on there mentioned that his best-case scenario would be to have a Jrue Holiday --esque career where he is a low-level star with the Spurs and then redefines his career as a role-player with another team. My fear is basically that opposite -- that he'll spec into trying to be a star when the Spurs desperately need him to be the super role-player he can be. In other words, I don't want him to become another DeJounte Murray where he squanders his chance to become a legit difference-maker in lieu of chasing accolades.

I think this will somewhat police itself, with Wemby and Fox (and possibly Harper) standing in Castle's way from ascending to pseudo-star status. I think by simple virtue of the pecking order of our team, it's going to force Castle to develop the things that you (and we all) feel he needs to. Or at least I hope so. If not, then it will be because he has Diva mentality and he'll just go down as "what could have been" - but I'd bet against that based on what we've seen so far.

There is no doubt Castle has areas he needs to improve on (almost all second year players do), but there's also no reason to be lower on Castle than any other second (or even third) year player. Like I said to mo, IMO there is reason to be as excited about Castle's promise as any other player drafted in the last 3 years save for the very elite players (which I would call Wemby, Amen, Paolo and probably JDub. Brandon Miller and Chet are guys in the next tier who you can make a reasonable case for having more promise than Castle. But there is no one else in the last 3 drafts that I'd take over Steph).


The same is basically the same for Harper, except he's starting off from a better place to be a go-to scorer and seems to have a hidden talent for playing off the ball. He NEEDS to come in defending and hitting catch-and-shoot shots. No, I don't want the team to "prioritize" him in the sense that they pass up on a star like Durant so Harper can get 20 shots a night. That's very, very likely to result in a lottery-bound Spurs team. It's why I was so interested in Durant coming to the Spurs. Vassell, Castle and Harper all need to take a step back and learn to be good non-stars if the Spurs are going to make this core work. The team's done a miserable job recently of teaching guys to defend and shoot from distance. and that's simply unsustainable. I'd like a third veteran scorer on the roster to basically force the aforementioned three to adapt. Durant was far and away the best option for that. The other options for that list -- DeRozan and Harden -- are basically nightmare fuel.



I can see the case for Castle, but I disagree that Harper, who has yet to even be drafted, needs to "take a step back". He's about to be the #2 pick and allegedly he's been the #1 pick in a lot of other years. If he needs to take a step back and learn how to be a role player... then either he isn't worth the #2 pick, or he's not the strong prospect he's made out to be. If we were taking Flagg, I don't think a reasonable person would say "Cooper needs to learn to take a step back first". That just sounds like Pop meme "he needs to get over himself". If Harper is as good as advertised, he should be able to step right in and be a dude from the get go *on a winning team*. He'll still be behind Wemby and Fox, but the same way JDub came in as a rookie and contributed to a .500 (effectively) OKC team as a rookie, or Chet for a Top Seeded OKC team as a "rookie", Harper should be able to do the same in my humble opinion.

I think the Spurs are very fortunate that two very promising young guys, Castle and Harper, have the luxury of coming in behind Wemby and Fox. Unlike Wemby, they won't be expected to come in right away and be the #1 guy or even the #2 guy. Pressure is reduced and they can develop on a more natural pace, but I disagree that we needed someone like Durant to even further reduce the pressure on them. Durant would have been nice (at least for one year) because he is a good player and he fit, but not so much because we need him in order to make sure Castle and Harper develop "the right way".

[SpursFan86]

Agreed Scott. While I mostly agree with the general point Chinook is trying to make, I think Castle/Harper will already be forced to take smaller roles this year due to Wemby/Fox almost certainly being the top 2 options. I was on board with getting KD but I don’t think we need another main scoring option for the sake of Castle/Harper’s development.

It was only an issue last year because Wemby and Fox both got injured. Castle was thrown into a larger role that probably wasn’t ideal. Some might argue it was a good learning experience for him but I’d disagree. 2 of the most important things Castle can do are learn to be a respectable spot-up shooter and defend at an elite level…and it’s hard to do those things when you’re thrown into the role of being the primary option on offense.

[Marcus Bryant]

Let Castle, Fox, Harper, and Wemby play together for a couple seasons first.

Here’s where SA is in a great position there isn’t that pressure to win now. Nothing better than most of this elite talent on rookie contracts.

[scott]

Agreed Scott. While I mostly agree with the general point Chinook is trying to make, I think Castle/Harper will already be forced to take smaller roles this year due to Wemby/Fox almost certainly being the top 2 options. I was on board with getting KD but I don’t think we need another main scoring option for the sake of Castle/Harper’s development.

It was only an issue last year because Wemby and Fox both got injured. Castle was thrown into a larger role that probably wasn’t ideal. Some might argue it was a good learning experience for him but I’d disagree. 2 of the most important things Castle can do are learn to be a respectable spot-up shooter and defend at an elite level…and it’s hard to do those things when you’re thrown into the role of being the primary option on offense.

Yep I agree... though I will say I do think the post Wemby/Fox injury experience for Castle was probably a good learning experience because we weren't trying to win (or weren't going to win) anyway so might as well give him as much run as possible. So, the Castle experience to close the end of the year last season wasn't good for winning basketball, but it was probably good for Castle. But now that Fox and Wemby are back, it's time for him to go back to playing whatever role is best for the team.

[kobyz]

I can see s&t for Naz involving Vassell

[RC_Drunkford]

I think this will somewhat police itself, with Wemby and Fox (and possibly Harper) standing in Castle's way from ascending to pseudo-star status. I think by simple virtue of the pecking order of our team, it's going to force Castle to develop the things that you (and we all) feel he needs to. Or at least I hope so. If not, then it will be because he has Diva mentality and he'll just go down as "what could have been" - but I'd bet against that based on what we've seen so far.

There is no doubt Castle has areas he needs to improve on (almost all second year players do), but there's also no reason to be lower on Castle than any other second (or even third) year player. Like I said to mo, IMO there is reason to be as excited about Castle's promise as any other player drafted in the last 3 years save for the very elite players (which I would call Wemby, Amen, Paolo and probably JDub. Brandon Miller and Chet are guys in the next tier who you can make a reasonable case for having more promise than Castle. But there is no one else in the last 3 drafts that I'd take over Steph).



I can see the case for Castle, but I disagree that Harper, who has yet to even be drafted, needs to "take a step back". He's about to be the #2 pick and allegedly he's been the #1 pick in a lot of other years. If he needs to take a step back and learn how to be a role player... then either he isn't worth the #2 pick, or he's not the strong prospect he's made out to be. If we were taking Flagg, I don't think a reasonable person would say "Cooper needs to learn to take a step back first". That just sounds like Pop meme "he needs to get over himself". If Harper is as good as advertised, he should be able to step right in and be a dude from the get go *on a winning team*. He'll still be behind Wemby and Fox, but the same way JDub came in as a rookie and contributed to a .500 (effectively) OKC team as a rookie, or Chet for a Top Seeded OKC team as a "rookie", Harper should be able to do the same in my humble opinion.

I think the Spurs are very fortunate that two very promising young guys, Castle and Harper, have the luxury of coming in behind Wemby and Fox. Unlike Wemby, they won't be expected to come in right away and be the #1 guy or even the #2 guy. Pressure is reduced and they can develop on a more natural pace, but I disagree that we needed someone like Durant to even further reduce the pressure on them. Durant would have been nice (at least for one year) because he is a good player and he fit, but not so much because we need him in order to make sure Castle and Harper develop "the right way".


I think Castle should go back to more of the role he used to play at UCONN. Where he's focused on being the main point of attack defender and used as a cutter offensively. He'll still get plenty of opportunities as a secondary ballhandler, which is where he's most comfortable at anyway. Having him focus on defense, so it doesn't fall off a cliff like last season is very important in my opinion.

Harper playing off the ball is also a positive in my book. Let him work on his catch and shoot game and then use him as the primary initiator against benches. That's a good start to develop the type of player he is.

I have serious concerns about the FO being too passive. I think they will definitely bring in a back up C via draft or free agency, but not trading for a starting PF would really bother me. A player like Santi Aldama can decide where he wants to go and the Grizzlies won't get a first round pick in return. Neither would the Jazz for John Collins according to reports. PJ Washington should also be on the market.

These are all good 3-point shooters, rebounders and positive defenders who can be had for second round picks, are between 24 to 27 years old and can be part of the team for the next 4 years. Those contracts would be bargains in the last 2 and have trade value as well. To me getting a capable 3-and-D PF with legit size next to Victor is really what would unlock this team to make a playoff run and I absolutely don't want them to settle for Yabusele, just because they can pick him up for free, when there are better options available.

Then again a sign-and-trade for Aldama on the projected 4/70 deal for Branham works in the trade machine, so I still have some hope.

[LeBowen]

I have serious concerns about the FO being too passive.

We're too impatient.
I'll be upset if we miss out on the targets we've been talking about and they go elsewhere.
Until then, Wright has earned our trust with last season's moves, he did well both as a seller and a buyer.

[poopbox]

Let Castle, Fox, Harper, and Wemby play together for a couple seasons first.

Here’s where SA is in a great position there isn’t that pressure to win now. Nothing better than most of this elite talent on rookie contracts.

This team has had 6 straight losing seasons. There has not been any pressure to win in San Antonio for a LONG time :rollin

And your right. When you haven't won in 6 years, what's 3 or 4 more?

[poopbox]

I think part of his problem with Castle is that he thinks we over estimate him here considering what his numbers look like and I think he's right. All of these takes about the future assuming Castle as a max player don't really make sense to me at this juncture. I mean, I hope it's a problem because he reaches his ceiling, but I can't expect it yet.

Him being a max or near max player has almost nothing to do with what he does on the court. Historically top 5 picks, unless they just completely bust, second contracts are max or near max. I can tell you for sure after Castle 3rd year when he is extension eligible his agent is going to be coming to the Spurs with his hand out saying where is our max. And he is not going to site very many, or any, team basketball reasons why. He is going to have all these reports that say this team demanded castle in a trade that team demanded castle in a trade team X would only trade their player who has made 2 all star teams to the spurs if the spurs traded them Castle and say "Castle is clearly desired by all these other teams so either pay up or we will just go to one of these other teams that we know spent years trying to trade for him cause they will surely pay up".

Suns made it about as hard as you can on a top pick to get a max. They told Ayton he would literally have to go get a max offer from another nba team and that is the only way they would pay him one. It took him all of 5 minutes to get a max offer sheet from the Pacers and force the Suns to max him :rollin

[onechance87]

I can see s&t for Naz involving Vassell

Nah...no way timberwolves get involved in that salary.Thats a number they wont cross imo.

[exstatic]

Him being a max or near max player has almost nothing to do with what he does on the court. Historically top 5 picks, unless they just completely bust, second contracts are max or near max. I can tell you for sure after Castle 3rd year when he is extension eligible his agent is going to be coming to the Spurs with his hand out saying where is our max. And he is not going to site very many, or any, team basketball reasons why. He is going to have all these reports that say this team demanded castle in a trade that team demanded castle in a trade team X would only trade their player who has made 2 all star teams to the spurs if the spurs traded them Castle and say "Castle is clearly desired by all these other teams so either pay up or we will just go to one of these other teams that we know spent years trying to trade for him cause they will surely pay up".

Suns made it about as hard as you can on a top pick to get a max. They told Ayton he would literally have to go get a max offer from another nba team and that is the only way they would pay him one. It took him all of 5 minutes to get a max offer sheet from the Pacers and force the Suns to max him :rollin

[Someone who doesn’t understand seismic changes that the Second Apron has made]

[LeBowen]

Tbh, I want Aldama if we get Sorber because he's the only one who can play both PF and backup C fairly well.
He can start alongside Wemby and be the backup C if Sorber isn't good enough right away.

[mo7888]

Him being a max or near max player has almost nothing to do with what he does on the court. Historically top 5 picks, unless they just completely bust, second contracts are max or near max. I can tell you for sure after Castle 3rd year when he is extension eligible his agent is going to be coming to the Spurs with his hand out saying where is our max. And he is not going to site very many, or any, team basketball reasons why. He is going to have all these reports that say this team demanded castle in a trade that team demanded castle in a trade team X would only trade their player who has made 2 all star teams to the spurs if the spurs traded them Castle and say "Castle is clearly desired by all these other teams so either pay up or we will just go to one of these other teams that we know spent years trying to trade for him cause they will surely pay up".

Suns made it about as hard as you can on a top pick to get a max. They told Ayton he would literally have to go get a max offer from another nba team and that is the only way they would pay him one. It took him all of 5 minutes to get a max offer sheet from the Pacers and force the Suns to max him :rollin

Now...do that again and add the consequences of the 2nd apron and see if a rational FO would come to the same conclusion now.

[exstatic]

Now...do that again and add the consequences of the 2nd apron and see if a rational FO would come to the same conclusion now.

Right. He doesn’t see that Boston struggled and scuffled for years with the Tatum/Brown duo, and only when they added White, Jrue, and Porzingas did they get over the hump. They just essentially salary dumped two of those players, slamming shut their window all by themselves because they were a multiple second apron offender.

[Mr. Body]

Tbh, I want Aldama if we get Sorber because he's the only one who can play both PF and backup C fairly well.
He can start alongside Wemby and be the backup C if Sorber isn't good enough right away.

Should go hard for Aldama or Gafford, who seems to have been extended to be traded. The type of player the team needs. I'd try to get a C in the draft for development and a guy like those.

[Ice009]

I thought Gafford was extended to be kept? You think it's more for a trade?

[mo7888]

I thought Gafford was extended to be kept? You think it's more for a trade?

That's been the reporting on it..

[Leetonidas]

I thought Gafford was extended to be kept? You think it's more for a trade?

Possibly. They have AD/Lively/Gafford who can all play C. I assume that Lively is their starter going forward and they'd want to alternate lineups with AD at C (if he isn't being a giant vagina) and Flagg at PF. Who knows though. But surely one of Gafford or PJ is on their way out

[Seventyniner]

Dallas might not want to help the Spurs, but the Spurs do have a sweetener that no other team has in being able to undo the 2030 swap.

[LkrFan]

I found this little nugget on Elon's app:
1937866510061441119
:wow

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I thought Gafford was extended to be kept? You think it's more for a trade?

Gafford took an extension that is 3 years, at 120% and with 5% raises, which is the type of extension a player can do when being traded. The regular vet extension is at 140%. So it does seem more likely that he's getting traded somewhere.

[CGD]

Dallas might not want to help the Spurs, but the Spurs do have a sweetener that no other team has in being able to undo the 2030 swap.

Let me get this straight, you want to trade a possible lottery pick when the spurs are expected to be really good for Daniel freaking Gafford?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I found this little nugget on Elon's app:
1937866510061441119
:wow

KOC knows about as much about the Spurs as Doc Rivers knows about coaching.

F that guy.

[KDKSpurs24]

KOC knows about as much about the Spurs as Doc Rivers knows about coaching.

F that guy.
KOC posted in the comments to clarify that they were only talking in hypotheticals.

[Seventyniner]

Let me get this straight, you want to trade a possible lottery pick when the spurs are expected to be really good for Daniel freaking Gafford?

Gafford or maybe PJ. It's just a swap. Lots can change in 5 years but the Mavs won't tank into a year when they don't control their own pick. No guarantee the Spurs are elite at that point either. A swap plus filler for a rotation player is decent value imo.

Edit: the Spurs also have swap rights with MIN in 2030, so in order for the DAL30 swap to have any value the Mavs will need to be worse than both the Wolves and the Spurs that year. That makes it less valuable than single swap rights on like ATL26, BOS28, SAC31

[poopbox]

[Someone who doesn’t understand seismic changes that the Second Apron has made]

Second Apron won't have anything to do with what agents demand financially :rollin

No agent is going to say "oh you know what never mind we are not going to ask for a max we don't want to put you guys in the second apron" :rollin

The onus will be 100% on the spurs to say no and be willing to let Castle walk if it comes to that. It's not like every single team in the nba will be in the second apron 2 or 3 years from now and not be able to offer castle a monster contract.

Second apron hasn't actually stopped a team from doing anything. You seem to be dumb enough to view it as "the second apron made Boston break their team up" instead of viewing it as "the second apron did not stop Boston from putting together the most expensive payroll in nba history after they won an nba title"

The Boston Celtics were well aware of what the Holiday and White contracts would do to them financially and they gave both no hesitation.

Supermax Jaylen Brown no hesitation

[R. DeMurre]

I wonder if the pick swaps with Atlanta and Dallas looking less valuable by the day will make the FO think that using them sooner rather than later is a good option and a reasonable variation of "not skipping any steps."

[Bruno]

I would understand Spurs taking it slow this summer.

Wembanyama, Fox, Harper and Castle is potentially one of the best core in the NBA. It's legit for Spurs to want to build around them and surrounding them with the right role players (mainly 3&D forwards). The upside of that core is really high.

However, Spurs can't go all in (like Orlando did with Bane) because this promising core might fail. These players aren't a natural fit together and Castle/Harper are quite unproven. If this core fails, Spurs must be able to pivot to something else. To do so, they must keep some trade assets and financial flexibility.

[Mr. Body]

I would understand Spurs taking it slow this summer.

Wembanyama, Fox, Harper and Castle is potentially one of the best core in the NBA. It's legit for Spurs to want to build around them and surrounding them with the right role players (mainly 3&D forwards). The upside of that core is really high.

However, Spurs can't go all in (like Orlando did with Bane) because this promising core might fail. These players aren't a natural fit together and Castle/Harper are quite unproven. If this core fails, Spurs must be able to pivot to something else. To do so, they must keep some trade assets and financial flexibility.

Agree. An insane guard corps, especially considering we had absolutely nothing before last draft. Nothing.

And then Wembanyama.

That's a pretty incredible foundation. Just need bits and parts around them.

[RC_Drunkford]

Tbh, I want Aldama if we get Sorber because he's the only one who can play both PF and backup C fairly well.
He can start alongside Wemby and be the backup C if Sorber isn't good enough right away.

since Memphis wants to shed salary:

Aldama sign and trade for Branham works. Just saying.

[LeBowen]

since Memphis wants to shed salary:

Aldama sign and trade for Branham works. Just saying.

Not without a pick going their way.
If they just want to get rid of him, they'll let him walk.

[CGD]

since Memphis wants to shed salary:

Aldama sign and trade for Branham works. Just saying.

It would be interesting to know what teams are looking to sneak under the aprons and would be interested in Malaki/Blake expirings.

I had thought Boston would want to give up 10 slots by trading 28 for 38, but seems their other moves took care of their issues.

[RC_Drunkford]

Not without a pick going their way.
If they just want to get rid of him, they'll let him walk.

I think you can get him for some second round picks. He can obviously decide where he wants to go. They just might want a cheap rotation player back, but the only useful one we got is Champagnie.

[Guru of Nothing]

Just spitballin. Vassell and Branham (32M) come close to Gafford and Klay (31M), but don't really want Klay, at all.

Is there a third team to inject here to net the Spurs a favorable return?

[CGD]

Trade for Okungo from Atlanta.
Keldon/26swap return should do it.

[LeBowen]

Trade for Okungo from Atlanta.
Keldon/26swap return should do it.

I don't think that would be enough, they rate Okongwu highly.

But I actually think they could use Devin.
They lost Bogdanovic and they don't have any reliable shot creators other than Trae.
He's also a local kid so Spurs wouldn't feel bad about trading him away.

Devin+'26 swap returned for Okongwu+salary filler would be a good deal.

[exstatic]

I found this little nugget on Elon's app:
1937866510061441119
:wow

KOC is a full blown Spurs hater. He’s just trying to start noise, not realizing that MATFO pays zero attention to social media trolls.

Spurs will keep Fox for whatever his extension is, then they’ll work with Klutch to find him a soft landing. He didn’t cost much, so we won’t have to recoup much.

[spurraider21]

Just spitballin. Vassell and Branham (32M) come close to Gafford and Klay (31M), but don't really want Klay, at all.

Is there a third team to inject here to net the Spurs a favorable return?
how many picks are you attaching to get the mavs to give up klay and gafford?

[Guru of Nothing]

how many picks are you attaching to get the mavs to give up klay and gafford?

I suppose Dallas can get a better return elsewhere.

[Ocotillo]

Anyone thing Sean Marks might like Devin and/or Keldon to help command that tank?

[exstatic]

how many picks are you attaching to get the mavs to give up klay and gafford?

Klay is washed, and Branham is trash. Mavs need guard play as much as we need bigs. Even Steven.

[spurraider21]

Klay is washed, and Branham is trash. Mavs need guard play as much as we need bigs. Even Steven.
this is delusional

[cd98]

Can we please give all those youtubers and "NBA pundits" a collective STFU on the Jaylen Brown trade scenarios?

[Chinook]

Can we please give all those youtubers and "NBA pundits" a collective STFU on the Jaylen Brown trade scenarios?

It was such an obviously bad trade idea. DPE's are anathema to team-building.

[DAF86]

How realistic do you think a trade centered around Vucevic and Keldon Johnson could be?

If it goes down:

Fox --------- Harper
Castle ----- Champagnie
Vassell ----- Bryant
Barnes ------ Sochan
Wemby ----- Vucevic

A much more cohesive rotation.

[LeBowen]

How realistic do you think a trade centered around Vucevic and Keldon Johnson could be?

I think Bulls probably ask for a bit extra, I'd give them Wesley. He'll never get minutes with us and Bulls need a defense oriented guard to try and develop after losing Caruso and Lonzo.

I said it before, I know Vucevic's defense is bad, but at least he's a good rebounder and he'd be our third best player on offense. He'd abuse most backup bigs.
I'd much rather have Vucevic than Brook Lopez who looked completely washed at the end of the season and isn't even a good defender anymore because father time caught up with him.

[exstatic]

this is delusional

Interesting view that Klay is NOT washed. I’ve seen that on ESPN, but, well, ESPN.

[DAF86]

I think Bulls probably ask for a bit extra, I'd give them Wesley. He'll never get minutes with us and Bulls need a defense oriented guard to try and develop after losing Caruso and Lonzo.

I said it before, I know Vucevic's defense is bad, but at least he's a good rebounder and he'd be our third best player on offense. He'd abuse most backup bigs.
I'd much rather have Vucevic than Brook Lopez who looked completely washed at the end of the season and isn't even a good defender anymore because father time caught up with him.

I would even be willing to give up a second rounder or two. 18 and 10 and metrics say Vucevic isn't as bad defensively as perceived, by most metrics he's average.

I don't know what has gotten into many Spurs fans that see Keldon as this untradable piece or worth keeping over one of our few above average 3 point shooters (Vassell), but he's damn worthless at both sides of the floor. Turning Keldon into Vucevic would greatly improve our team.

[TimDunkem]

ST-ers are too clingy with their favorites, and overvalue them while simultaneously always overthinking moves for anyone else.

Vucevic would be a an unbelievably great return for trash like KJ. I'd do that in a heartbeat. The Spurs would instantly have one of, if not the best, C rotations in the league. Vuc would dominate bench bigs.

[TimDunkem]

I found this little nugget on Elon's app:
1937866510061441119
:wow
KOC straight up made this up. He is such a hack. That's why he was demoted to writing for Yahoo.

[spurs10]

Vucevik would be great for a couple years. What are the chances Blazers deal 21 year old Clingan?

[TimmyBuckets]

KOC is a full blown Spurs hater. He’s just trying to start noise, not realizing that MATFO pays zero attention to social media trolls.

Spurs will keep Fox for whatever his extension is, then they’ll work with Klutch to find him a soft landing. He didn’t cost much, so we won’t have to recoup much.

How long do you think Spurs keep Fox? Aren't Castle and Harper still too green to take Wemby to the playoffs? Wouldn't it be smarter to keep Fox for a few years then offload him after he potentially helps Wemby make the playoffs, or do you think we offload him after a few years. Fox and Wemby pair at the present moment is pretty tantalizing, while the other 2 guards are the future.