Spurs trade ideas

[mo7888]

I have no idea why that double posted...sites been slow for me today, so that may have something to do with it..

[DPG21920]

No way Charlotte's not going tanking next year with how good the 25 class looks so no reason they'd care in the slightest about being able to trade that pick. I wouldn't slide two spots just for two seconds.

I think you’re going to be surprised at the cost of teams moving around in this draft tbh…

[exstatic]

I think you’re going to be surprised at the cost of teams moving around in this draft tbh…

I don’t think you’re necessarily wrong, but that’s more a reflection of moronic NBA front offices, not value in this draft.

[heyheymymy]

Just feels like CHA has all the leverage on the CHA FRP top 14 protected.

Can't see the #6 in 2024 draft plus existing personnel being enough to play themselves into the 15-30 range. Plus how good 2025 draft looks? All CHA has to do is land anywhere in the frontend HALF of the 2025 first round and they can forget their obligation to SA while earning a lottery grade talent from the 2025 draft treasure chest and only have to dump some 2RPs to SA later on no big loss.

[TD 21]

I'm on a different island called make sense of the roster if Castle is selected, hence Jones' inclusion who'd double as a nice fit for the Cavaliers.

Alternate version: Brogdon for Graham, the Hornets 1st and something minor (Wesley, 1-2 2nds, etc.).

This would fit their overly conservative nature and interchangeable roles goal, with a starting lineup of: Sochan, Vassell, Wembanyama, Castle, Brogdon, a second unit of Johnson, Jones, Collins, Champagnie and Branham, Salaun? on the fringe.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah I don't see any way the Hornets leap into the playoffs even in the perfectly lousy East. Even when LaMelo plays, he's a loser and the rest is a misfit bunch of players. They're really far away.

That said, 2026 and 2027 second round picks from CHA are pretty good. They're going to suck for a while.

[heyheymymy]

Yeah the concession if CHA FRP splits off into two 2RPs is that the same conditions that caused that also mean those 2RPs are basically late firsts

[rascal]

Just feels like CHA has all the leverage on the CHA FRP top 14 protected.

Can't see the #6 in 2024 draft plus existing personnel being enough to play themselves into the 15-30 range. Plus how good 2025 draft looks? All CHA has to do is land anywhere in the frontend HALF of the 2025 first round and they can forget their obligation to SA while earning a lottery grade talent from the 2025 draft treasure chest and only have to dump some 2RPs to SA later on no big loss.

Forget about that Charlotte pick becoming a first rounder.

[MultiTroll]

Welp, so much for Doncic forcing a trade out of Dallas to immensely more successful big brother San Antone.
MMMMmmaybe in '26+

Lil Brother poised to take a run at the 2024 Chip.

We need to score Lively types in the draft or trades.

[Knoxxx]

How about we give CHI their protected FRP back next year, in exchange for their #11 pick in this draft? Then we can get Castle, Knecht, and Cody Williams or to that effect?

[Knoxxx]

Welp, so much for Doncic forcing a trade out of Dallas to immensely more successful big brother San Antone.
MMMMmmaybe in '26+

Lil Brother poised to take a run at the 2024 Chip.

We need to score Lively types in the draft or trades.

Chomche at 48?

[Knoxxx]

Spurs give:

ATL Pick swap 26 cancellation
2024 pick 35

ATL gives:
2024 pick 19
2024 pick 31

Thoughts? Prayers?

[Pauleta14]

Spurs give:

ATL Pick swap 26 cancellation
2024 pick 35

ATL gives:
2024 pick 19
2024 pick 31

Thoughts? Prayers?


What's your plan? Having 4 rookies next season?

We already have 2 top10 in a weak draft, why give bck a potential top pick in a stack 26' draft for 2 later 1RP in a weak one?

[Knoxxx]

What's your plan? Having 4 rookies next season?

We already have 2 top10 in a weak draft, why give bck a potential top pick in a stack 26' draft for 2 later 1RP in a weak one?

Edey #19, Carrington #31. Sure, there is room for 4 rookies, given we need to turn over almost the entire roster. I hereby nominate Pauleta to start the 2026 draft thread.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Spurs give:

ATL Pick swap 26 cancellation
2024 pick 35

ATL gives:
2024 pick 19
2024 pick 31

Thoughts? Prayers?

Surrendering the Boozer/Dybantsa ticket for pick 19 in the weakest draft in decades?

Also these picks belong to Toronto, not Atlanta.

[Knoxxx]

Surrendering the Boozer/Dybantsa ticket for pick 19 in the weakest draft in decades?

I don't think this draft is as weak as being advertised. Like 5 all-stars come out of every other year's draft, not really. That said, I still do like the idea of putting the screws to ATL. There is still the sad chance we don't have a better record than them in 26, though, making the swap worthless.

[Knoxxx]

Surrendering the Boozer/Dybantsa ticket for pick 19 in the weakest draft in decades?

Also these picks belong to Toronto, not Atlanta.

Oops, that's fine just substitute TOR for ATL in the "gives".

[benefactor]

What's your plan? Having 4 rookies next season?

We already have 2 top10 in a weak draft, why give bck a potential top pick in a stack 26' draft for 2 later 1RP in a weak one?
He's desperate to get Edey on this team

[LeBowen]

He's desperate to get Edey on this team

Anyone who wants Edey or Clingan should be banned for a month, so we don't need to read their nonsense until the draft.

[exstatic]

Oops, that's fine just substitute TOR for ATL in the "gives".

We can’t cancel ATL’s swap for Toronto..

[Knoxxx]

Big Board 2.0 with Latest Spurs Draft Intel (spurstalk.com) (https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-big-board-2-draft-intel/)

14. Bub CarringtonPrevious Ranking: NR
Carrington fits the mold of the type of player the Spurs have targeted in recent drafts. He’s one of the youngest players available and he’s early in his growth curve. While his efficiency was lacking during his one year at Pittsburgh, the 6-foot-5 guard has enough upside to excite scouts and spark imaginations.

Draft Combine Spot Up Shooting | Stats | NBA.com (https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-spot-up?dir=D&sort=COLLEGE_CORNER_LEFT_PCT)
In the above, Bub was the top shooting PG on corner 3 PT % not named Boogie Ellis.

[Knoxxx]

Anyone who wants Edey or Clingan should be banned for a month, so we don't need to read their nonsense until the draft.

You mean Clingan. Edey is a better value and better player.

[Knoxxx]

We can’t cancel ATL’s swap for Toronto..

let me finish your sentence, but we could use the CHI FRP instead. Youse all are deliberately trying to be obtuse! Whether we actually bring in 7 or 10 rookies from 2024-2027, there will be roster space. We could clear out half our roster just this year, if we needed to.

Not sure why everyone wants the entire roster dumped, without giving up any players. That's fuzzy math!

[Pauleta14]

Edey #19, Carrington #31. Sure, there is room for 4 rookies, given we need to turn over almost the entire roster. I hereby nominate Pauleta to start the 2026 draft thread.

Spots are limited and we already have the youngest roster in NBA history. You want to make it even younger?

It wouldn't make sense considering the need of veterans/experience that was the most lacking part of the roster last season.

If there's a guy you target at the end of this draft then swap the 8th pick vs a couple 1RP . not the 26' that has a lot more value

[Knoxxx]

Spots are limited and we already have the youngest roster in NBA history. You want to make it even younger?

It wouldn't make sense considering the need of veterans/experience that was the most lacking part of the roster last season.

If there's a guy you target at the end of this draft then swap the 8th pick vs a couple 1RP . not the 26' that has a lot more value

Veterans are over priced and I’m providing a strategy to get more prospects into the system sooner. We can trade picks before or after they are made for a vet, also.

Most of us have trouble counting on one hand five players we want to keep from today’s roster anywho. Time for some new dart throws as we give Branham, Wesley, Champagnie etc one more go round.

[Pauleta14]

Veterans are over priced and I’m providing a strategy to get more prospects into the system sooner. We can trade picks before or after they are made for a vet, also.

Most of us have trouble counting on one hand five players we want to keep from today’s roster anywho. Time for some new dart throws as we give Branham, Wesley, Champagnie etc one more go round.

Instead of "veterans/experience" I should have been more clear about what was missing... BBIQ

How do you improve BBIQ by having even more youngster to develop? It makes no sense

I agree with you about the roster that needs a turnaround but it's not just because of talent and/or specific skills missing; poise, leadership, experience are unvaluable in a team success AND youngsters developent

+ You know that PATFO doesn't share our pov on the roster

[scott]

Spurs give:

ATL Pick swap 26 cancellation
2024 pick 35

ATL gives:
2024 pick 19
2024 pick 31

Thoughts? Prayers?

Atlanta doesn't have Pick 19 or 31 - Toronto does.

But not sure why we'd want 4 rookies.

[Seventyniner]

There's a Spurs tidbit in this article about the Sixers' future.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2024/5/27/24165548/philadelphia-76ers-paul-george-nba-trade-rumors-offseason


If both George and Ingram fall through, the Sixers would have to get creative or hope for unexpected opportunities. What if the Timberwolves are looking to escape the second apron and move on from Karl-Anthony Towns? If the Hornets draft a point guard, what would that mean for LaMelo Ball? Is there a way to overpay the Spurs for Devin Vassell? Maybe the Nets would move away from Mikal Bridges, who could return home to Philadelphia and the team that originally drafted him. Or how about making the Jazz an offer for Lauri Markkanen that they can’t refuse?

This is probably more about throwing spaghetti at the wall and less about having actually thought things through, but what could the Sixers even offer to the Spurs for Vassell? The reason the Sixers have so much cap space is that they have almost nobody under contract. The Spurs could take back some vet UFAs in a sign-and-trade like Covington, Harris, Batum, or Lowry, but that requires them agreeing to contract terms, wanting to go to the Spurs, and the Spurs wanting those players.

Really the only thing the Sixers could offer the Spurs are unprotected picks several years in the future when Embiid will be on the downslope of his career. The Sixers owe their 2027 first to Brooklyn protected 1-8, also protected 1-8 in 2028 if it doesn't convey in 2027, then it converts into seconds. They also have a 2028 first incoming from the Clippers. I think this means they could trade their 2027 or 2028 first (whichever doesn't convey to Brooklyn) along with their own 2029 and 2031 firsts without violating the Stepien rule because they would retain their own 2026 pick, the Clippers 2028 pick, and their own 2030 pick. Those three firsts, plus maybe an unprotected swap in 2030, would be quite the haul for someone like Vassell. The Sixers could also include their swap rights with the Clippers in 2029.

A trade like this from the Spurs would be a step backwards in terms of competitiveness too, even if the overall return in terms of picks is high.

Verdict: it was just a random thought by the author without much concern for realism that still brings up an interesting possibility.

[mo7888]

There's a Spurs tidbit in this article about the Sixers' future.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2024/5/27/24165548/philadelphia-76ers-paul-george-nba-trade-rumors-offseason



This is probably more about throwing spaghetti at the wall and less about having actually thought things through, but what could the Sixers even offer to the Spurs for Vassell? The reason the Sixers have so much cap space is that they have almost nobody under contract. The Spurs could take back some vet UFAs in a sign-and-trade like Covington, Harris, Batum, or Lowry, but that requires them agreeing to contract terms, wanting to go to the Spurs, and the Spurs wanting those players.

Really the only thing the Sixers could offer the Spurs are unprotected picks several years in the future when Embiid will be on the downslope of his career. The Sixers owe their 2027 first to Brooklyn protected 1-8, also protected 1-8 in 2028 if it doesn't convey in 2027, then it converts into seconds. They also have a 2028 first incoming from the Clippers. I think this means they could trade their 2027 or 2028 first (whichever doesn't convey to Brooklyn) along with their own 2029 and 2031 firsts without violating the Stepien rule because they would retain their own 2026 pick, the Clippers 2028 pick, and their own 2030 pick. Those three firsts, plus maybe an unprotected swap in 2030, would be quite the haul for someone like Vassell. The Sixers could also include their swap rights with the Clippers in 2029.

A trade like this from the Spurs would be a step backwards in terms of competitiveness too, even if the overall return in terms of picks is high.

Verdict: it was just a random thought by the author without much concern for realism that still brings up an interesting possibility.

I agree with you that it's just a guy throwing spaghetti against the wall. Now that I've said that, I don't think Vassell is untouchable nor should be be. Nobody would get him at a bargain price though. As for Philly specifically, I don't see anything they could offer directly, but some type of 3 team offer could possibly make sense. For instance, say we sign Malik Monk, draft Castle, and Reed you've replaced Devin in a way that a Sixers package of a couple picks + a significant player from another team might be attractive.

[mo7888]

There's a Spurs tidbit in this article about the Sixers' future.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2024/5/27/24165548/philadelphia-76ers-paul-george-nba-trade-rumors-offseason



This is probably more about throwing spaghetti at the wall and less about having actually thought things through, but what could the Sixers even offer to the Spurs for Vassell? The reason the Sixers have so much cap space is that they have almost nobody under contract. The Spurs could take back some vet UFAs in a sign-and-trade like Covington, Harris, Batum, or Lowry, but that requires them agreeing to contract terms, wanting to go to the Spurs, and the Spurs wanting those players.

Really the only thing the Sixers could offer the Spurs are unprotected picks several years in the future when Embiid will be on the downslope of his career. The Sixers owe their 2027 first to Brooklyn protected 1-8, also protected 1-8 in 2028 if it doesn't convey in 2027, then it converts into seconds. They also have a 2028 first incoming from the Clippers. I think this means they could trade their 2027 or 2028 first (whichever doesn't convey to Brooklyn) along with their own 2029 and 2031 firsts without violating the Stepien rule because they would retain their own 2026 pick, the Clippers 2028 pick, and their own 2030 pick. Those three firsts, plus maybe an unprotected swap in 2030, would be quite the haul for someone like Vassell. The Sixers could also include their swap rights with the Clippers in 2029.

A trade like this from the Spurs would be a step backwards in terms of competitiveness too, even if the overall return in terms of picks is high.

Verdict: it was just a random thought by the author without much concern for realism that still brings up an interesting possibility.

Piggy backing on your "spaghetti against a wall" find:

Philly- Devin Vassell

Utah- Zollins, #8, 2026 1st from Philly, 2029 1st from Philly, Charlotte 1st (2-2nds)

Spurs- Lauri + #10 + 16 + Sign Malik Monk

Draft Castle @ 4, F that falls @ 10 (Williams, Salaun, Knecht etc) and McCain @ 16

[Kevin]

Piggy backing on your "spaghetti against a wall" find:

Philly- Devin Vassell

Utah- Zollins, #8, 2026 1st from Philly, 2029 1st from Philly, Charlotte 1st (2-2nds)

Spurs- Lauri + #10 + 16 + Sign Malik Monk

Draft Castle @ 4, F that falls @ 10 (Williams, Salaun, Knecht etc) and McCain @ 16

Lauri would cost way more than that. I’d offer Dev the 4 and 8 for Lauri. Trade for Trae Young and we’re an instant title contender.

[mo7888]

Lauri would cost way more than that. I’d offer Dev the 4 and 8 for Lauri. Trade for Trae Young and we’re an instant title contender.

I disagree. Lauri is coming into a contract year and won't be extended by Utah so he'll be a FA. That's a strong offer for him with his contract situation. It's risky for Utah or whoever acquires him to get him to resign. This price reflects that.

[Kevin]

I disagree. Lauri is coming into a contract year and won't be extended by Utah so he'll be a FA. That's a strong offer for him with his contract situation. It's risky for Utah or whoever acquires him to get him to resign. This price reflects that.

Whoever trades for him gets his Bird Rights with Utah currently controlling his Bird Rights. He’ll cost a ton and rightfully so. Elite offensive finisher and a solid defender. He’s a strong contender to join the 50/40/90 shooting club.

[CGD]

I disagree. Lauri is coming into a contract year and won't be extended by Utah so he'll be a FA. That's a strong offer for him with his contract situation. It's risky for Utah or whoever acquires him to get him to resign. This price reflects that.

What do you think Lauri’s next deal will come in at? I fear it’ll be a scary number.

In any case, I think the better move is to wait for the Feb deadline AFTER Ainge overplays his hand this summer and is staring down losing Lauri for nothing.

[mo7888]

What do you think Lauri’s next deal will come in at? I fear it’ll be a scary number.

In any case, I think the better move is to wait for the Feb deadline AFTER Ainge overplays his hand this summer and is staring down losing Lauri for nothing.

It's gonna be a near max deal of not a max outright. You could definitely be right about waiting though...

[Kevin]

It's gonna be a near max deal of not a max outright. You could definitely be right about waiting though...

Once again posters don’t want elite players because they require elite assets. We got Wemby bro and he’s ready for title contention. Elite players > elite assets.

[mo7888]

Once again posters don’t want elite players because they require elite assets. We got Wemby bro and he’s ready for title contention. Elite players > elite assets.

There's some truth there, but some posters don't have a grasp of contracts, their length, and competition from other teams and how that effects value... Elite players without control over the length of time you control their contract < elite assets

[Kevin]

There's some truth there, but some posters don't have a grasp of contracts, their length, and competition from other teams and how that effects value... Elite players without control over the length of time you control their contract < elite assets

You can’t assume that Lauri will leave or stay after next season. You have to fall somewhere in between. Dev’s nothing special since he’ll be making 26M next season and you’re not getting Lauri for free so the 4 and 8 gotta be included.

[mo7888]

You can’t assume that Lauri will leave or stay after next season. You have to fall somewhere in between. Dev’s nothing special since he’ll be making 26M next season and you’re not getting Lauri for free so the 4 and 8 gotta be included.

Correct, you can't assume he'll stay or go. That's what DA is having to gamble on. The longer he waits, the more leverage shifts away from him. Now, he can probably get 3 very good picks out of Lauri. In February he's looking at 2 or 3 mid to low first type picks.

As for Devin's value, I'm not arguing how high or low it is. I'm using the article that was posted suggesting Philly would overpay for him. That's why he's routed there, simply because the article suggested they value him quite a bit.

[CGD]

I like the idea of Lauri next to Vic a lot, but I feel they need to address the PG situation first. Lauri would be a nice finishing piece though.

[scott]

Piggy backing on your "spaghetti against a wall" find:

Philly- Devin Vassell

Utah- Zollins, #8, 2026 1st from Philly, 2029 1st from Philly, Charlotte 1st (2-2nds)

Spurs- Lauri + #10 + 16 + Sign Malik Monk

Draft Castle @ 4, F that falls @ 10 (Williams, Salaun, Knecht etc) and McCain @ 16

Love this deal. If Carter falls to 10, I'd take him there and view Castle more as a flex PG/SF.

Spurs starting lineup:

Tre/Carter/Blake (Carter takes over mid season)
Monk/McCain/Branham (Branham likely the primary backup at least to start the season).
Castle/Keldon
Lauri/Sochan
Wemby/Bassey/some tbd bet

Some nice building blocks there and still plenty of flexibility to draft whomever you like next year should the ATL pick strike gold (Lauri, Castle and Carter all offer some position flex). Still some holes to plug, but lots of potential to play "position-less basketball"

I feel like this is a pretty solid return for Lauri from Utah's POV, considering his contract situation. That's a net of two legit unprotected FRPs, plus an upgrade of one FRP. Might need one more FRP (SA27 Swap? CHI25?) because Ainge is a son of a bitch like that.

Edit: Forgot about Keldon

I also like maybe someone like Filipowski, Missi or (wait for it) Edey at 16 since Collins will be out of the way.

[mo7888]

Love this deal. If Carter falls to 10, I'd take him there and view Castle more as a flex PG/SF.

Spurs starting lineup:

Tre/Carter/Blake (Carter takes over mid season)
Monk/McCain/Branham (Branham likely the primary backup at least to start the season).
Castle/Keldon
Lauri/Sochan
Wemby/Bassey/some tbd bet

Some nice building blocks there and still plenty of flexibility to draft whomever you like next year should the ATL pick strike gold (Lauri, Castle and Carter all offer some position flex). Still some holes to plug, but lots of potential to play "position-less basketball"

I feel like this is a pretty solid return for Lauri from Utah's POV, considering his contract situation. That's a net of two legit unprotected FRPs, plus an upgrade of one FRP. Might need one more FRP (SA27 Swap? CHI25?) because Ainge is a son of a bitch like that.

Edit: Forgot about Keldon

I also like maybe someone like Filipowski, Missi or (wait for it) Edey at 16 since Collins will be out of the way.

There are alot of options at 16 depending on who you take at 10. I like Carter, I'm just not sure I like him with Castle. All of those C's you mentioned would certainly be in play though.

[dubross]

Would the Pacers trade Nembhard for Keldon or any other package? Looks like Nembhard is best suited as a primary ball handler.

[mo7888]

Would the Pacers trade Nembhard for Keldon or any other package? Looks like Nembhard is best suited as a primary ball handler.

Zero chance

[mo7888]

So, Houston shopping #3 and a package for Mikal Bridges looks like the flavor of the day for NBA press types. So what do you think that package looks like? Also, do you think Cam Johnson could be available in a smaller-seperate package? He would look good here.

[LeBowen]

So, Houston shopping #3 and a package for Mikal Bridges looks like the flavor of the day for NBA press types. So what do you think that package looks like? Also, do you think Cam Johnson could be available in a smaller-seperate package? He would look good here.

Imo, it's the same situation as Hawks and Spurs. If they can get their picks back from the Rockets, they'll tank.
If not, they got no choice but to compete. I guess they'll try to trade for another legit star with all those Phoenix picks.

Everyone talks about Bridges, but Cam Johnson and DFS would also be great pickups.

[Mr. Body]

So, Houston shopping #3 and a package for Mikal Bridges looks like the flavor of the day for NBA press types. So what do you think that package looks like? Also, do you think Cam Johnson could be available in a smaller-seperate package? He would look good here.

I don't think they'll get all their picks back from Houston and Houston will probably try to pry loose some of those later sweet, sweet Phoenix picks. But I think it'll center around #3, another non-Brooklyn'sown first or two, and maybe Jalen Green. I know everyone has talked about how much he turned out at the end of the year, but a lot of dubious players do that when teams are either checked out or thinking about the playoffs. (I love Mamu, but this is a Mamu thing.) Wouldn't be a surprise if the Rox know they need to move him for a steady piece.

[mo7888]

Imo, it's the same situation as Hawks and Spurs. If they can get their picks back from the Rockets, they'll tank.
If not, they got no choice but to compete. I guess they'll try to trade for another legit star with all those Phoenix picks.

Everyone talks about Bridges, but Cam Johnson and DFS would also be great pickups.

I'd really like Johnson here..

[JPB]

What do you think Lauri’s next deal will come in at? I fear it’ll be a scary number.

In any case, I think the better move is to wait for the Feb deadline AFTER Ainge overplays his hand this summer and is staring down losing Lauri for nothing.

There won't be shortage of suitors for Lauri until up the deadline, Ainge is not sweating one bit and could/would still get a haul for him in February.

[mo7888]

I don't think they'll get all their picks back from Houston and Houston will probably try to pry loose some of those later sweet, sweet Phoenix picks. But I think it'll center around #3, another non-Brooklyn'sown first or two, and maybe Jalen Green. I know everyone has talked about how much he turned out at the end of the year, but a lot of dubious players do that when teams are either checked out or thinking about the playoffs. (I love Mamu, but this is a Mamu thing.) Wouldn't be a surprise if the Rox know they need to move him for a steady piece.

I don't love Jalen Green. I'm definitely not sold on him and I wonder if Brooklyn wouldn't rather have Brooks instead. He's a guy they might get something out of moving to a team at the deadline?

Brooks or Green, Tari, #3, and one more pick back would do it I think. Then that leaves Cam Johnson. I'd offer Zollins (who actually wouldn't be bad for them on a short contract) + #8, + Cha + 2 more 2nds. Then I'd be prepared to offer another first a few years down the road.

Cam would fit next to Sochan and Wemby better than anyone on the draft.

[baseline bum]

I'd really like Johnson here..

Gross

[Seventyniner]

I'd really like Johnson here..

Just begs for the "bend over, I'll give you a Johnson" line.

[scott]

#3 in some package for Bridges makes a lot of sense and has been one of the more obvious possibilities since the lottery draw... wonder if this is real or just media making the same obvious observations as others (like this board... we hypothesized a move like this from the get go).

Brooklyn moving ahead of us would suck, because they're kind of like WAS and can go any direction, as opposed to HOU who has more limited needs and pathways ahead of us.

I always thought both Cams (Johnson and Thomas) would be a good fit here. Johnson as a starting PF and Thomas as a 6th man sparkplug. The Nets may look to monetize those pieces if they can get a significant amount of their own draft capital back from Houston so they can start building their own warchest.

[mo7888]

#3 in some package for Bridges makes a lot of sense and has been one of the more obvious possibilities since the lottery draw... wonder if this is real or just media making the same obvious observations as others (like this board... we hypothesized a move like this from the get go).

Brooklyn moving ahead of us would suck, because they're kind of like WAS and can go any direction, as opposed to HOU who has more limited needs and pathways ahead of us.

I always thought both Cams (Johnson and Thomas) would be a good fit here. Johnson as a starting PF and Thomas as a 6th man sparkplug. The Nets may look to monetize those pieces if they can get a significant amount of their own draft capital back from Houston so they can start building their own warchest.

I like both to, CT is coming into a contract year so I didn't include him. I stuck with the more cost controlled player who's a bigger need. I also figure that Brooklyn will not want to aggregate them because they can get more separately.

[TD 21]

Then that leaves Cam Johnson. I'd offer Zollins (who actually wouldn't be bad for them on a short contract) + #8, + Cha + 2 more 2nds. Then I'd be prepared to offer another first a few years down the road.

Cam would fit next to Sochan and Wemby better than anyone on the draft.

Another 1st would be an overpay for an injury prone, low end starter. As much as his shooting would be needed, he'd also add another scrawny type who plays small.


Brooklyn moving ahead of us would suck, because they're kind of like WAS and can go any direction, as opposed to HOU who has more limited needs and pathways ahead of us.

I always thought both Cams (Johnson and Thomas) would be a good fit here. Johnson as a starting PF and Thomas as a 6th man sparkplug. The Nets may look to monetize those pieces if they can get a significant amount of their own draft capital back from Houston so they can start building their own warchest.

If anything, it'd probably be a good thing since they'd probably be more likely to select Castle or maybe even Clingan than Sheppard.

Johnson is more of an SF and Thomas is the antithesis of Spurs material.

[Big Empty]

The guy at Utility Sports suggested we trade #4 Wesley/Branham and a few 2nds to go up two spots for the #2 pick in the draft to ensure we get Sarr or Risarchet which isnt a bad idea.

[scott]

Thinking a little creatively about ATL and if they want to get their picks back so they can tank... What about:

ATL Gets: #8 overall in 2024, all three of their picks back, Keldon, Collins
SA Gets: #1 overall in 2024, Trae/Dejounte (take your pick. If Dejounte, then only Collins goes out).

Spurs get to take Risacher (who isn't atop my board, but probably requires the #1 pick to get) and whoever they might have been targeting at 4. Let's say it's Sheppard for now.

Atlanta gets to start their true rebuild and still get a Top 10 pick this year to help.

Just a different, wacky idea.

Trae/Tre
Vassell/Sheppard
Risacher/Champ
Sochan/TBD
Wemby/Bassey

[baseline bum]

The guy at Utility Sports suggested we trade #4 Wesley/Branham and a few 2nds to go up two spots for the #2 pick in the draft to ensure we get Sarr or Risarchet which isnt a bad idea.

I'd love to trade #4 plus dogshit to move up to #2 but no idea why Washington would do that deal.

[mo7888]

Thinking a little creatively about ATL and if they want to get their picks back so they can tank... What about:

ATL Gets: #8 overall in 2024, all three of their picks back, Keldon, Collins
SA Gets: #1 overall in 2024, Trae/Dejounte (take your pick. If Dejounte, then only Collins goes out).

Spurs get to take Risacher (who isn't atop my board, but probably requires the #1 pick to get) and whoever they might have been targeting at 4. Let's say it's Sheppard for now.

Atlanta gets to start their true rebuild and still get a Top 10 pick this year to help.

Just a different, wacky idea.

Trae/Tre
Vassell/Sheppard
Risacher/Champ
Sochan/TBD
Wemby/Bassey

I like the concept of getting #1, but I don't believe I could give up the 25 atl pick.

[TD 21]

Considering the usual Hornets 1st, Graham and filler (Wesley, 2nd(s), etc.) for Brogdon package sounds light . . .

To Hornets: Johnson

To Trail Blazers: Bertans, Heat (via Hornets) lottery protected '27 1st, Wesley

To Spurs: Brogdon . . . contingent on him agreeing to something like a 2/$40-45M extension, with the second season around half guaranteed.

Basically, the Spurs would be choosing to retain their "real" 1sts (all of which are too valuable for an aging, injury prone player) over Johnson and come out close to cap neutral (+$3M), mostly preserving the remaining space to pursue a replacement.

[scott]

Considering the usual Hornets 1st, Graham and filler (Wesley, 2nd(s), etc.) for Brogdon package sounds light . . .

To Hornets: Johnson

To Trail Blazers: Bertans, Heat (via Hornets) lottery protected '27 1st, Wesley

To Spurs: Brogdon . . . contingent on him agreeing to something like a 2/$40-45M extension, with the second season around half guaranteed.

Basically, the Spurs would be choosing to retain their "real" 1sts (all of which are too valuable for an aging, injury prone player) over Johnson and come out close to cap neutral (+$3M), mostly preserving the remaining space to pursue a replacement.

Personally I would pass. Part of the appeal of Brogdon, to me, is that he is only a 1-year stopgap rental. Adding two years of that decreases, not increases, his value to me.

[ambchang]

A rando suggested the following:
Spurs trade #4, #8, keldon Johnson, tre jones, sochan and I think Wesley for jimmy butler and Nikola Jovic. To me it’s a trade that doesn’t make sense for both teams. But feel free to discuss.

[tbdog]

Makes no sense. Butler contract ending and he is demanding a max extension. Blowing your load on an aging star demanding even more. Great player when healthy. Playoff monster too, for now.

[TD 21]

Personally I would pass. Part of the appeal of Brogdon, to me, is that he is only a 1-year stopgap rental. Adding two years of that decreases, not increases, his value to me.

It'd be one fully guaranteed season on the extension, with the second essentially making him a valuable trade chip (even if he is in decline by then) for matching salary purposes.

Even if they luck into Traore or whoever in '25, they're going to want a veteran around and he's both better and more malleable than Jones.

[ginobilized]

Thinking a little creatively about ATL and if they want to get their picks back so they can tank... What about:

ATL Gets: #8 overall in 2024, all three of their picks back, Keldon, Collins
SA Gets: #1 overall in 2024, Trae/Dejounte (take your pick. If Dejounte, then only Collins goes out).

Spurs get to take Risacher (who isn't atop my board, but probably requires the #1 pick to get) and whoever they might have been targeting at 4. Let's say it's Sheppard for now.

Atlanta gets to start their true rebuild and still get a Top 10 pick this year to help.

Just a different, wacky idea.

Trae/Tre
Vassell/Sheppard
Risacher/Champ
Sochan/TBD
Wemby/Bassey

Very creative and practical! I wouldn't be mad at this. If the Spurs want to capitalize on the 2025 draft, then they should keep those Hawks picks.

[Dverde]

Michael Porter Jr has the same agent as McDermott and Zach Collins. Maybe a change of scenery can unlock him to a higher level. He appears to be over himself nowadays. Plus he is still only 25.

[DPG21920]

Thinking a little creatively about ATL and if they want to get their picks back so they can tank... What about:

ATL Gets: #8 overall in 2024, all three of their picks back, Keldon, Collins
SA Gets: #1 overall in 2024, Trae/Dejounte (take your pick. If Dejounte, then only Collins goes out).

Spurs get to take Risacher (who isn't atop my board, but probably requires the #1 pick to get) and whoever they might have been targeting at 4. Let's say it's Sheppard for now.

Atlanta gets to start their true rebuild and still get a Top 10 pick this year to help.

Just a different, wacky idea.

Trae/Tre
Vassell/Sheppard
Risacher/Champ
Sochan/TBD
Wemby/Bassey

If Spurs love Risacher I’d rather them just use 4 and 8 to move up to 2 and get him while keeping all the ATL picks.

[mo7888]

Michael Porter Jr has the same agent as McDermott and Zach Collins. Maybe a change of scenery can unlock him to a higher level. He appears to be over himself nowadays. Plus he is still only 25.

On all of these MPJ projections, what ate we thinking we give up to get him and his contract?

[DPG21920]

Thinking a little creatively about ATL and if they want to get their picks back so they can tank... What about:

ATL Gets: #8 overall in 2024, all three of their picks back, Keldon, Collins
SA Gets: #1 overall in 2024, Trae/Dejounte (take your pick. If Dejounte, then only Collins goes out).

Spurs get to take Risacher (who isn't atop my board, but probably requires the #1 pick to get) and whoever they might have been targeting at 4. Let's say it's Sheppard for now.

Atlanta gets to start their true rebuild and still get a Top 10 pick this year to help.

Just a different, wacky idea.

Trae/Tre
Vassell/Sheppard
Risacher/Champ
Sochan/TBD
Wemby/Bassey

The only way I would do this (and I dont want to do this at all) is if SA both gets Trae and keeps 8 in this scenario. I still wouldn’t like it, but if ATL wants their 3 picks back, they can give us 1 + Trae (I know they wouldn’t do it, but that’s only way Im doing it if Im SA)

[scott]

The only way I would do this (and I dont want to do this at all) is if SA both gets Trae and keeps 8 in this scenario. I still wouldn’t like it, but if ATL wants their 3 picks back, they can give us 1 + Trae (I know they wouldn’t do it, but that’s only way Im doing it if Im SA)

I don't actually want to do it at all, I was just trying to have a little fun :lol

[DPG21920]

I don't actually want to do it at all, I was just trying to have a little fun :lol

For sure lol - Theres a path to doing it where I think the risk/reward is acceptable is sort of what I was getting at

[TD 21]

I don't actually want to do it at all, I was just trying to have a little fun :lol

:lol This describes most of my trade proposals too, but the usual suspects jump to conclusions to push their agendas.

[bevo]

Thinking a little creatively about ATL and if they want to get their picks back so they can tank... What about:

ATL Gets: #8 overall in 2024, all three of their picks back, Keldon, Collins
SA Gets: #1 overall in 2024, Trae/Dejounte (take your pick. If Dejounte, then only Collins goes out).

Spurs get to take Risacher (who isn't atop my board, but probably requires the #1 pick to get) and whoever they might have been targeting at 4. Let's say it's Sheppard for now.

Atlanta gets to start their true rebuild and still get a Top 10 pick this year to help.

Just a different, wacky idea.

Trae/Tre
Vassell/Sheppard
Risacher/Champ
Sochan/TBD
Wemby/Bassey


That would be a horrible trade ...

[HankChinaski]

If Spurs love Risacher I’d rather them just use 4 and 8 to move up to 2 and get him while keeping all the ATL picks.

They could use the chi future pick and couple of seconds to potentially make it work. Not as enticing as adding one or our future first round picks or Hawks but might be in the realm of possible.

Pick 4, Bulls protect top 10 1st, couple future 2nds or Pick 4, keldon, and a pair of 2nds.

Is it worth it *shrugs* not sure

[Knoxxx]

Jordan Clarkson or Collin Sexton from Jazz? Keeps coming up on my MSN page feed. two separate articles.

(disclaimer, I have read 0 of 1073 prior posts on this thread, insulating me from admonishment by admitting I am too lazy or busy to see if this has been discussed)

Underrated trade targets that could help the Spurs improve their roster (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/underrated-trade-targets-that-could-help-the-spurs-improve-their-roster/ar-BB1nma0O?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=4d0b407a93304133b2bea38f211e354a&ei=12)

[scott]

Would love Clarkson as our 6th man. San Antonio boy, too. Don't think he's worth giving up assets for though. Maybe as part of a big deal that includes Lauri, that would be sweet.

[montgod]

Would love Clarkson as our 6th man. San Antonio boy, too. Don't think he's worth giving up assets for though. Maybe as part of a big deal that includes Lauri, that would be sweet.

Yeah I think they'd want too much for him and not worth it where SA development currently is. From what I've read, Utah is about to start trading to build around Lauri so don't think he's going anywhere.

[Robz4000]

Jordan Clarkson or Collin Sexton from Jazz? Keeps coming up on my MSN page feed. two separate articles.

(disclaimer, I have read 0 of 1073 prior posts on this thread, insulating me from admonishment by admitting I am too lazy or busy to see if this has been discussed)

Underrated trade targets that could help the Spurs improve their roster (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/underrated-trade-targets-that-could-help-the-spurs-improve-their-roster/ar-BB1nma0O?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=4d0b407a93304133b2bea38f211e354a&ei=12)

Wouldn't deal with Ainge under any circumstances tbh.

[montgod]

Wouldn't deal with Ainge under any circumstances tbh.

I'd have to agree. There are no 'deals' to be had lol. Maybe as a third team to help out but not directly.

[Extra Stout]

Has anyone put out there trading 4 + 8 to Portland for 7 + 14 + 2029 FRP?

[BackHome]

The guy at Utility Sports suggested we trade #4 Wesley/Branham and a few 2nds to go up two spots for the #2 pick in the draft to ensure we get Sarr or Risarchet which isnt a bad idea.

That is not a bad idea I don't know if Pop would OK that though

[TD 21]

Clarkson looked washed last season. The Spurs don't need an inefficient chucker, who can't defend and offers little in the way of play making.

Considering the news of the Trail Blazers potentially having interest in trading up for Clingan . . .

To Cavaliers: Brogdon, 8th pick, Bulls '25 1st

To Grizzlies: R. Williams

To Trail Blazers: Johnson, Kennard (t/o), 4th pick, 2nd round pick (via Grizzlies)

To Spurs: Garland, 7th pick, 14th pick

[LeBowen]

That is not a bad idea I don't know if Pop would OK that though

Does anyone even think Branham and especially Wesley are worth anything?

[exstatic]

Has anyone put out there trading 4 + 8 to Portland for 7 + 14 + 2029 FRP?

Their FRP is tied up through 2028, currently, meaning their first clean tradeable pick is 2030.

[mo7888]

Clarkson looked washed last season. The Spurs don't need an inefficient chucker, who can't defend and offers little in the way of play making.

Considering the news of the Trail Blazers potentially having interest in trading up for Clingan . . .

To Cavaliers: Brogdon, 8th pick, Bulls '25 1st

To Grizzlies: R. Williams

To Trail Blazers: Johnson, Kennard (t/o), 4th pick, 2nd round pick (via Grizzlies)

To Spurs: Garland, 7th pick, 14th pick

I could get behind that...

[Mr. Body]

Their FRP is tied up through 2028, currently, meaning their first clean tradeable pick is 2030.

They have other firsts coming in that year. I think that means they can trade their own?

[KobesAchilles]

What would Lauri cost us? Seems like a natural fit with Vic. And he’s on the last year of his deal so I don’t see UTH getting more than a FRP and a couple of SRPs for him.

[exstatic]

They have other firsts coming in that year. I think that means they can trade their own?

You are correct. They can trade either their own 2029 or the Boston 2029 pick. Portland has a sneaky number of late decade FRPs.

[pad300]

What would Lauri cost us? Seems like a natural fit with Vic. And he’s on the last year of his deal so I don’t see UTH getting more than a FRP and a couple of SRPs for him.

The question is does he sign an extension (with Utah)? I'm sure Ainge is working on it, as Lauri becomes a much more valuable asset if he's under contract for 4 more years...

[tbdog]

Lauri would cost Vassell plus 3-5 unprotected.

[exstatic]

The question is does he sign an extension (with Utah)? I'm sure Ainge is working on it, as Lauri becomes a much more valuable asset if he's under contract for 4 more years...

His extension number is really low, based on his current contract. Doubt he signs one with Utah, or anyone else. He’ll very likely hit the open market to set his value.

[CGD]

I thought the discussion about the CLE offseason in this pod (about halfway through), was pretty interesting. They discuss Spurs/Garland scenarios, and try to get at what Garland’s market truly is given all the factors (down season, Mitchell dynamic, etc). CLE seems like the most interesting offseason team this year.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/game-theory-podcast/id1054081827?i=1000657278185

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

People keep being wrong about Lauri’s extension. Utah aren’t tied up to the 140% rule only, they can renegotiate his contract and extend him this year using their available cap space in the same way Sacramento extended Sabonis.

They can technically renegotiate his deal and offer an extension starting at over $40 mil per. The question is whether they want to do it, especially if they plan to tank the next couple of seasons. They may choose to trade him instead or look for a number that’s lower, in which case Markkanen might not do it.

[KobesAchilles]

Lauri would cost Vassell plus 3-5 unprotected.
Not for a half a year rental. No way Ainge can get even close to that. I would trade Vassell for him tho

[CGD]

Lauri would cost Vassell plus 3-5 unprotected.

Nah

[LeBowen]

Not for a half a year rental. No way Ainge can get even close to that. I would trade Vassell for him tho

Ainge certainly isn't giving him up for at least three good FRPs. Not until the deadline, at least.
Jazz really wants to tank because there's no way they build a legit contender around Markkanen and some middling picks.
It's just going to come down to who has the most patience.

I don't think getting Vassell does much for the Jazz. If Lauri is traded, they want picks, not a tank commander.

He'd be a perfect fit, but I would trade for Markkanen only if our start of the season is good and he's the player we need.
If we're poor again, then there's no point.

Tbh, I think Markkanen is the player Presti should finally cash in for. He fits their roster perfectly as the second scoring option.

[mo7888]

Ainge certainly isn't giving him up for at least three good FRPs. Not until the deadline, at least.
Jazz really wants to tank because there's no way they build a legit contender around Markkanen and some middling picks.
It's just going to come down to who has the most patience.

I don't think getting Vassell does much for the Jazz. If Lauri is traded, they want picks, not a tank commander.

He'd be a perfect fit, but I would trade for Markkanen only if our start of the season is good and he's the player we need.
If we're poor again, then there's no point.

Tbh, I think Markkanen is the player Presti should finally cash in for. He fits their roster perfectly as the second scoring option.

If Ainge decides they really want to tank for 2025, then they need to move him before the season. They have to weigh getting a smaller return on Lauri vs an increased return in the next draft. I doubt he'd want Devin either. He'd probably prefer Collins (although that seems insane) because he'll help with the tank and doesn't have a long contract. Ainge is under a little pressure to choose a direction here.

[Extra Stout]

If Ainge is looking to tank then he would want a bunch of 2025 draft picks since that is the year to tank for if looking to tank.

[mo7888]

If Ainge is looking to tank then he would want a bunch of 2025 draft picks since that is the year to tank for if looking to tank.

Sure, but nobody in the league is offering that so, he can keep Lauri and lower his own pick in 2025 or trade him and increase his draft position in 2025. Those are his options.

[Extra Stout]

Sure, but nobody in the league is offering that so, he can keep Lauri and lower his own pick in 2025 or trade him and increase his draft position in 2025. Those are his options.
When does Ainge make trades that don’t involve bending the other team over a barrel?

[mo7888]

When does Ainge make trades that don’t involve bending the other team over a barrel?

When there's no team willing to bend over for him...

[LeBowen]

While we're at Utah, am I crazy to think John Collins could be useful?
15/8 this season while playing out of position as C.
It looks like his shot is coming back, he shot 37% on 3.4 attempts per game.

He's on $26.5M the next season and then has player option for one more year, same money.
If he does well somewhere, maybe he'd decline the option to sign longer, team friendly deal.

Collins for Collins while adding CHA '25 and some second rounders seems like a good value if Utah decides to tank.
No way they get a first for their Collins.

[JPB]

Ainge certainly isn't giving him up for at least three good FRPs. Not until the deadline, at least.
Jazz really wants to tank because there's no way they build a legit contender around Markkanen and some middling picks.
It's just going to come down to who has the most patience.

I don't think getting Vassell does much for the Jazz. If Lauri is traded, they want picks, not a tank commander.

He'd be a perfect fit, but I would trade for Markkanen only if our start of the season is good and he's the player we need.
If we're poor again, then there's no point.

Tbh, I think Markkanen is the player Presti should finally cash in for. He fits their roster perfectly as the second scoring option.

I think I wouldn't mind a SGA/Chet/Lauri big 3 as an OKC fan... That'd make them contenders at least for the next 5 years, with still some assets to refine the rest of the roster.

[tbdog]

Not for a half a year rental. No way Ainge can get even close to that. I would trade Vassell for him tho

Well if he agrees to resign

[Mr. Body]

I think I wouldn't mind a SGA/Chet/Lauri big 3 as an OKC fan... That'd make them contenders at least for the next 5 years, with still some assets to refine the rest of the roster.

Markkannen on the Thunder might be great for us. He's so awful on defense, he'd wreck the gains they've made in that department. Anyone notice that Chicago and Cleveland both got better after he left? I get that Cleveland got much better the year he was traded there, but they picked up rookie Evan Mobley and other key changes, then got still better then they moved him.

[wildbill2u]

Would Sochan make a good centerpiece for any kind of trade that would be useful to us if surrounded by a couple of draft picks and maybe another player? (Sochan, Champaignie and 2 2nds for a decent wing.)

[jjspur]

Utah seems to be a team that will be making a few trades to go in one direction (tanking) or another (retooling to go up in the standings). With that in mind how about :
To Utah : Collins, Branham, and the Charlotte first
To SA : Collin Sexton

We get rid of a few players and picks that are probably more valuable to them (if they are tanking) for a player that could be more valuable to us (hopefully not tanking). Unfortunately you have to deal with Ainge who tries to screw over every team he deals with. The money works, its just that Ainge always seems to get the upper hand in most deals.

[Extra Stout]

Why trade for Sexton when you could just draft Dillingham

[KobesAchilles]

Well if he agrees to resign
I’m not a cap expert but I’m pretty sure he would make way more money not doing that and going on the open market

[mo7888]

Utah seems to be a team that will be making a few trades to go in one direction (tanking) or another (retooling to go up in the standings). With that in mind how about :
To Utah : Collins, Branham, and the Charlotte first
To SA : Collin Sexton

We get rid of a few players and picks that are probably more valuable to them (if they are tanking) for a player that could be more valuable to us (hopefully not tanking). Unfortunately you have to deal with Ainge who tries to screw over every team he deals with. The money works, its just that Ainge always seems to get the upper hand in most deals.

I'd be down for that.

[Wilt Chamberlain]

Would Sochan make a good centerpiece for any kind of trade that would be useful to us if surrounded by a couple of draft picks and maybe another player? (Sochan, Champaignie and 2 2nds for a decent wing.)

If you are interested in selling low. In the long run the ball handling and command of the offense Sochan gained last year should help but that first half performance last year was shitty tape.

Only asset beyond the untradeable Wemby likely to garner much is Vassell who improved yet again last season.

[T Park]

Utah seems to be a team that will be making a few trades to go in one direction (tanking) or another (retooling to go up in the standings). With that in mind how about :
To Utah : Collins, Branham, and the Charlotte first
To SA : Collin Sexton

We get rid of a few players and picks that are probably more valuable to them (if they are tanking) for a player that could be more valuable to us (hopefully not tanking). Unfortunately you have to deal with Ainge who tries to screw over every team he deals with. The money works, its just that Ainge always seems to get the upper hand in most deals.

they give up Sexton for a center a backup shooting guard and a second round pick?

spiked weed tonight?

[tbdog]

I’m not a cap expert but I’m pretty sure he would make way more money not doing that and going on the open market

Well usually teams get permission to talk to players agent, and agree on a resign structure. Siakam would be the latest example.

[jjspur]

they give up Sexton for a center a backup shooting guard and a second round pick?

spiked weed tonight?

Lets review for those who didn't quite read the post carefully enough.
1. if the jazz are tanking they will look for picks and short term contracts, every team does that. That deal offers both.
2. Whether the Jazz are tanking or not, with a decent amount of cap space they will be looking for deals. This one gives them even more options to go in either direction. Ainge will choose a path.
3. If Charlotte makes the playoffs, it will be a decent 1st rounder. If they don't its 2 decent second rounders. Three or possibly four players for one.
4. This is just an opinions website. Calm down dude, you aren't Ainge or Brian Wright and neither am I. They'll each do their jobs and we'll see what happens.
5. The good spiked stuff usually comes from California, ask Cheech & Chong or beedy eyed, delusional Lakers fans.

[Knoxxx]

We have 5 second round picks in 2026, or 6 if the CHA pick doesn’t covey in 25.

[JPB]

Lets review for those who didn't quite read the post carefully enough.
1. if the jazz are tanking they will look for picks and short term contracts, every team does that. That deal offers both.
2. Whether the Jazz are tanking or not, with a decent amount of cap space they will be looking for deals. This one gives them even more options to go in either direction. Ainge will choose a path.
3. If Charlotte makes the playoffs, it will be a decent 1st rounder. If they don't its 2 decent second rounders. Three or possibly four players for one.
4. This is just an opinions website. Calm down dude, you aren't Ainge or Brian Wright and neither am I. They'll each do their jobs and we'll see what happens.
5. The good spiked stuff usually comes from California, ask Cheech & Chong or beedy eyed, delusional Lakers fans.

Sorry but Ainge has no business doing that trade, whose only virtue is being good for the spurs. Tanking or not, the "You take my crap, I get a nice player' trades never work. the Jazz is apparently rebuilding by the middle but they wouldn't make any Sexton trade without a guaranteed, quality FRP plus several SRPs.

[jjspur]

Sorry but Ainge has no business doing that trade, whose only virtue is being good for the spurs. Tanking or not, the "You take my crap, I get a nice player' trades never work. the Jazz is apparently rebuilding by the middle but they wouldn't make any Sexton trade without a guaranteed, quality FRP plus several SRPs.

You're right this trade is a bit one sided, but in spite of what people think, Collins is a halfway decent player somewhat similar to former Jazz player Kelly Olynick, Branham is a player similar to Kris Dunn (one flawed offensively and one defensively) plus they get a pick or two. Some GM might see value in that trade. Ainge probably doesn't take the trade as is, he'd want more and more and more. Its a start and does work financially, you then start really negotiating then, but at some point you have to say go for it, or that's too much for just one non all star player player and not do the trade.

Teams do a lot of weird or lopsided trades all the time - some that make no sense at all. Ninety percent of proposals are shot down, that 's NBA life. Again it was just a thought - stranger things happen in the NBA we all know that. I'm not a real GM and I'm pretty sure no one else on this board is, but I appreciate an intelligent response rather than some knuckleheaded one.

On to the next proposal, but in the meantime, I'm keeping an eye on Ainge and Brian Wright. They will, or rather they both should do something interesting this summer.

[Ocotillo]

The thing about Ainge being this mastermind that squeezes his trading partner to the extent that the other party ends up getting over a barrel should not preclude someone in trying to make a deal if the team sees a player or an asset they feel will help their team. Just go into the negotiation with your eyes open and know your price and walk away if you can't get it. The only thing you have wasted is time but maybe you get what you want.

I'm just saying, don't let him screw you but be aware he will try and know when to cut bait if he won't give you what you want.

[jjspur]

The thing about Ainge being this mastermind that squeezes his trading partner to the extent that the other party ends up getting over a barrel should not preclude someone in trying to make a deal if the team sees a player or an asset they feel will help their team. Just go into the negotiation with your eyes open and know your price and walk away if you can't get it. The only thing you have wasted is time but maybe you get what you want.

I'm just saying, don't let him screw you but be aware he will try and know when to cut bait if he won't give you what you want.

Thank you for putting it so clearly. I couldn't have said it better !

[sfernald]

Omg, a sucker really is born every minute!

You guys forget the one thing about this draft is it is flat! #1 is about #10 quality in a different draft. And the #1 or #2 in this draft has about a good a chance of being a star as #10 or #11 in this draft. Yet you want to throw in all sorts of assets to move up two spots to guarantee your guy!

Thank god you guys aren’t running the show. We would be fucked. For who? A euro guy nobody has barely watched. His agent made a couple highlight videos that gets you drooling. Well, you should look at his numbers in these playoffs: he didn’t hit a three in the last two games, 7/23 on threes (that’s just 30% on threes!) and just 74% at the line.

He can’t create shit. He can shoot in the corner. He’s not really 3&D cause he doesn’t really shoot threes very well and doesn’t really play D very well either.

Absolutely embarrassing that you would overpay for him, when you can just draft someone like Dillingham at #4 who at least has decent tape and stats and can truly breakdown a defense! Ugh.

[LeBowen]

Since we're at Markkanen and I mentioned him in Castle topic, what would be everyone's realistic trade for him?
Assuming that he agrees to stay with the Spurs, obviously.

I said many times I wouldn't want to deal with Ainge, but Markkanen would be such a perfect fit next to Wemby it might just be worth the trouble.
He's shooting 40% from deep on 8 attempts per game over the past two seasons as a seven footer, ffs. Doesn't need the ball, just keeps moving and shoots from anywhere.
Very good rebounder. Not a great defender, but not someone who's going to be torched. Can hold his own in most matchups and we could easily put him on bigs like Lopez that just want to pull Wemby out of the paint.

With that said, what would be a realistic trade?
Utah doesn't want any average players now, they just want picks.
Unless it's a three team trade, it would just be Collins and picks.
Would you give them 4 FRPs? Mind you, Collins has negative value and salary dumping him would require assets.

[KobesAchilles]

Since we're at Markkanen and I mentioned him in Castle topic, what would be everyone's realistic trade for him?
Assuming that he agrees to stay with the Spurs, obviously.

I said many times I wouldn't want to deal with Ainge, but Markkanen would be such a perfect fit next to Wemby it might just be worth the trouble.
He's shooting 40% from deep on 8 attempts per game over the past two seasons as a seven footer, ffs. Doesn't need the ball, just keeps moving and shoots from anywhere.
Very good rebounder. Not a great defender, but not someone who's going to be torched. Can hold his own in most matchups and we could easily put him on bigs like Lopez that just want to pull Wemby out of the paint.

With that said, what would be a realistic trade?
Utah doesn't want any average players now, they just want picks.
Unless it's a three team trade, it would just be Collins and picks.
Would you give them 4 FRPs? Mind you, Collins has negative value and salary dumping him would require assets.
4 is a lot of FRPs. The problem is that he is on a one year deal. We would have to max him right away and hope he doesn’t leave us. I would trade Sochan and Collins and our 2026 FRP and the Chi pick for Lauri. But I wouldn’t do more unless he did a sign and trade for us

[scott]

If you really want Lauri (which makes perfect sense… he’s a great fit), you probably just need to wait and see if he hits FA next season or hope to grab him at a deadline bargain deal in the scenario where Ainge knows he is leaving and just has to get something while he can (though S&T might still give Ainge a better ROI).

[jesterbobman]

If you really want Lauri (which makes perfect sense… he’s a great fit), you probably just need to wait and see if he hits FA next season or hope to grab him at a deadline bargain deal in the scenario where Ainge knows he is leaving and just has to get something while he can (though S&T might still give Ainge a better ROI).

I'd guess that they look to negotiate and extend using cap space. Lauri could also be dealt at the deadline for something from OKC (Have roughly the same bounty of picks as us, have a need for another shooting 3/4, are further along in the title space).
I think he's probably OKC bound for 3-4 picks at the deadline.

[baseline bum]

Well if he agrees to resign

Would you offer 5 year Bird max with the 8% raises to get him to agree? Otherwise he'd have not much incentive to.

[cutewizard]

the Spurs must win it all again

coz Time is about to End

[Ef-man]

^^^

Watch out for psychotic episodes from Spurs trade ideas, just saying, it could be you next

[LeBowen]

4 is a lot of FRPs. The problem is that he is on a one year deal. We would have to max him right away and hope he doesn’t leave us. I would trade Sochan and Collins and our 2026 FRP and the Chi pick for Lauri. But I wouldn’t do more unless he did a sign and trade for us

When you say 4 FRPs it does seem a lot, but it depends on the value of those FRPs.
Other than Wemby, our most recent FRPs were Jeremy, Wesley, Malaki, Primo and Devin.
Five players. Three were lottery picks. Would you trade them for Markkanen?

Hornets pick probably won't convey, I look at it as a compensation for taking on Zach's contract.
Chicago FRP is the obvious one to trade.
Then one '24 FRP if Utah is interested.
And one of '26 or '27 FRPs.
I'd prefer to keep at least one pick every year.

Him agreeing to stay is a given, I obviously wouldn't trade for any player that doesn't agree to stay.

[tbdog]

Would you offer 5 year Bird max with the 8% raises to get him to agree? Otherwise he'd have not much incentive to.

Spurs obviously would create space to work. But honestly, I don't foresee 6 the Spurs going after him.

[exstatic]

I'd guess that they look to negotiate and extend using cap space. Lauri could also be dealt at the deadline for something from OKC (Have roughly the same bounty of picks as us, have a need for another shooting 3/4, are further along in the title space).
I think he's probably OKC bound for 3-4 picks at the deadline.

There is an absolute limit to what they can pay on an extension, based on his current bargain salary. It doesn’t matter if they have more cap room than the percentile raise allowed by the CBA. That’s all he can be extended for.

[LeBowen]

There is an absolute limit to what they can pay on an extension, based on his current bargain salary. It doesn’t matter if they have more cap room than the percentile raise allowed by the CBA. That’s all he can be extended for.

And unlike Spurs, they're going to have to make some tough decisions soon.
Chet and Jalen Williams extensions start in 2026-27 season.
Both will surely get max rookie extensions.
Then in 2027-28 SGA's gigantic supermax will kick in.

Unless OKC's ownership is willing to pay ridiculous amounts of tax for 4 max deals, they're not trading for another long-term max player.
That's why PG13 talk makes sense. He'd be gone when SGA's extension kicks in.

New CBA is pretty good, imo. Three max deals mean you'll be paying a lot of tax and have no bench depth whatsoever.
Having two max players and deeper rotation will be a way better, imo.
And that works in our favor because Wemby will be the best player in the league with superteams not being a thing anymore.

[exstatic]

When you say 4 FRPs it does seem a lot, but it depends on the value of those FRPs.
Other than Wemby, our most recent FRPs were Jeremy, Wesley, Malaki, Primo and Devin.
Five players. Three were lottery picks. Would you trade them for Markkanen?

Hornets pick probably won't convey, I look at it as a compensation for taking on Zach's contract.
Chicago FRP is the obvious one to trade.
Then one '24 FRP if Utah is interested.
And one of '26 or '27 FRPs.
I'd prefer to keep at least one pick every year.

Him agreeing to stay is a given, I obviously wouldn't trade for any player that doesn't agree to stay.

The only way I make that trade is if he extends. Lamond Murray agreed to sign with us in 99 during the pre-signing period and backed out. Morris did the same a few years ago, and both of those were only a matter of a few days. If there’s not ink on a fucking contract, I don’t send out that many picks. Players words have proven to be untrustworthy.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

There is an absolute limit to what they can pay on an extension, based on his current bargain salary. It doesn’t matter if they have more cap room than the percentile raise allowed by the CBA. That’s all he can be extended for.

This is wrong.

Utah absolutely can, and probably will, renegotiate his contract and extend him unless they want to tank hard and trade him. But he's eligible for renegotiation - 4 year contract, 3/4 years passed, cap space. They can extend him at the max if they want to. Sacramento did the exact same thing with Sabonis.

[exstatic]

This is wrong.

Utah absolutely can, and probably will, renegotiate his contract and extend him unless they want to tank hard and trade him. But he's eligible for renegotiation - 4 year contract, 3/4 years passed, cap space. They can extend him at the max if they want to. Sacramento did the exact same thing with Sabonis.

It all depends on what Sabo was making at the time. The hard limit is a 40% bump under the new CBA.
Lauri is getting raped on his current deal, making only $18M next year. A 40% bump only takes him to $25M, and isn’t worth him extending.


Contract extensions
You can finally relax, Celtics fans. The new CBA introduced a change that may one day be known as "The Jaylen Brown Rule." Under the old collective bargaining agreement, most veterans could only sign extensions that increased their salary by 20% in the first season of the new deal. This unfairly punished teams for signing players to contracts that were below market value, and Brown was the highest-profile example. That 20% limitation prevented the Celtics from extending Brown at his maximum salary. As Brown is obviously a max-caliber player, this restriction would have virtually guaranteed that Brown would become an unrestricted free agent in 2024. Their only hope of extending him early would have been Brown earning All-NBA honors and therefore qualifying for a supermax extension. Amazingly, this might have put both Brown and Boston's future in the hands of the basketball writers voting on All-NBA selections this season.


But now, that 20% figure has been increased to 40%. That bump is enough to take Brown to his extended max, which may not guarantee his signature in Boston, but at least gives the Celtics the freedom to offer him what he is worth. However, there are still several notable players who are still probably not extendable. Take Dejounte Murray, for instance. He will make just $17.7 million next season, the final year of his current deal. A 40% bump wouldn't even take him to $25 million. We can't accurately project his max in 2024 without knowing where the cap will fall, but at a bare minimum, it's going to exceed $40 million. It still doesn't make sense for him to extend, and that's a major blow to the Hawks.

That Dejounte case is a near mirror for Lauri. Their salaries are with a couple hundred thousand.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

It all depends on what Sabo was making at the time. The hard limit is a 40% bump under the new CBA.
Lauri is getting raped on his current deal, making only $18M next year. A 40% bump only takes him to $25M, and isn’t worth him extending.

Forget about the 140% rule. Lauri’s case is different as explained.

[exstatic]

Forget about the 140% rule. Lauri’s case is different as explained.

Show your work. I did.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-cba-101-everything-to-know-about-new-agreement-from-salary-cap-to-free-agency-and-beyond/

[baseline bum]

And unlike Spurs, they're going to have to make some tough decisions soon.
Chet and Jalen Williams extensions start in 2026-27 season.
Both will surely get max rookie extensions.
Then in 2027-28 SGA's gigantic supermax will kick in.

Unless OKC's ownership is willing to pay ridiculous amounts of tax for 4 max deals, they're not trading for another long-term max player.
That's why PG13 talk makes sense. He'd be gone when SGA's extension kicks in.

New CBA is pretty good, imo. Three max deals mean you'll be paying a lot of tax and have no bench depth whatsoever.
Having two max players and deeper rotation will be a way better, imo.
And that works in our favor because Wemby will be the best player in the league with superteams not being a thing anymore.

Wouldn't be surprised if Williams and Holmgren are supermax eligible too. Guess it's a good problem to have though, worst case you trade one of them for a boatload of picks.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Show your work. I did.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-cba-101-everything-to-know-about-new-agreement-from-salary-cap-to-free-agency-and-beyond/

https://cdn.nba.com/manage/2021/03/2018-19-CBA.pdf

Page 12.

Also google Sacramento renegotiating and extending Sabonis to a 5year/ 217 mil off of a contract that was $18 mil per.

[scott]

I'd guess that they look to negotiate and extend using cap space. Lauri could also be dealt at the deadline for something from OKC (Have roughly the same bounty of picks as us, have a need for another shooting 3/4, are further along in the title space).
I think he's probably OKC bound for 3-4 picks at the deadline.

They can’t renegotiate and extend until October, which means he isn’t eligible to be traded until after the deadline, so if he extends then you’ll have to wait until next offseason.

[scott]

LOL the more confident exstatic is in his position, the more you can be rest assured he is completely fucking wrong - as he is here. It never fails.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

LOL the more confident exstatic (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=20) is in his position, the more you can be rest assured he is completely fucking wrong - as he is here. It never fails.

It’s not about being right or wrong. There are some misconceptions about certain rules that make entire discussions and even whole threads illogical. The renegotiation rule is kind of niche but there were quite a few cases lately - Sabonis, Turner, Clarkson, so people should probably be more familiar.

exstatic is a good poster, tbh. We’re all wrong sometimes and right sometimes. Hell, for all I know, there might be some crazy wrinkle that says Lauri can’t renegotiate and make me a laughing stock for being so confident.

[exstatic]

It’s not about being right or wrong. There are some misconceptions about certain rules that make entire discussions and even whole threads illogical. The renegotiation rule is kind of niche but there were quite a few cases lately - Sabonis, Turner, Clarkson, so people should probably be more familiar.

exstatic is a good poster, tbh. We’re all wrong sometimes and right sometimes. Hell, for all I know, there might be some crazy wrinkle that says Lauri can’t renegotiate and make me a laughing stock for being so confident.

Thank you, BG, for the update. The source I used had incomplete info.

[Extra Stout]

If, say, the Spurs wanted Devin Carter, could they trade 8 to the Bulls for 11 and a slight reduction in protection on the pick already owed?

[exstatic]

If, say, the Spurs wanted Devin Carter, could they trade 8 to the Bulls for 11 and a slight reduction in protection on the pick already owed?

I highly doubt that from this point forward that you see any potential lottery pick for next year altered as you suggested or outright traded. The player pool is too deep. Even at our best Chicago shot at 11, we could get someone nice who might normally be a top 6-8 player. I doubt they want to improve our situation.

[jesterbobman]

Slept through an entire debate.

The timing window on extensions means that Lauri signing negotiate and extension (salary up with cap space, then extended) and being traded by the deadline is out.

I think the Jazz preference is:
#1: Negotiate and extend Lauri to something like max extension.
#2: If can't negotiate and extend, trade for assets now (better tanking, more certainty of return) from a team that looks likely to try and sign him in FA.
#3: Trade at the deadline for assets.

I'd imagine Lauri wants money, signs a deal, then may be a trade target in the 2025 offseason.

I think Bulls / Memphis etc (Really, the teams interested in Clingan) might be trade targets, depending on how the order above us goes. If Clingan is there at 8 (seems unlikely) then trading with Chicago for a slight weakening of protections would be a good deal.

[jjspur]

Slept through an entire debate.

The timing window on extensions means that Lauri signing negotiate and extension (salary up with cap space, then extended) and being traded by the deadline is out.

I think the Jazz preference is:
#1: Negotiate and extend Lauri to something like max extension.
#2: If can't negotiate and extend, trade for assets now (better tanking, more certainty of return) from a team that looks likely to try and sign him in FA.
#3: Trade at the deadline for assets.

I'd imagine Lauri wants money, signs a deal, then may be a trade target in the 2025 offseason.

I think Bulls / Memphis etc (Really, the teams interested in Clingan) might be trade targets, depending on how the order above us goes. If Clingan is there at 8 (seems unlikely) then trading with Chicago for a slight weakening of protections would be a good deal.

I agree with your point, but If Clingan falls to the spurs at 8 and we decide to trade him away, I'd like a little bit more from Chicago than just lessening the restrictions on our already owed pick. Screw da bulls After all, don't we have the have the Atlanta pick, our own pick and possibly the Chicago pick ( I know, top 10 protected) quite possibly all in the lottery. However, I think what we do in this draft will determine a lot of what we do in the 25 draft, so lets see how this next season shakes out first.

[r0drig0lac]

https://twitter.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1798014513570357288

[sfernald]

Vassell I’d trade in a heartbeat as part of a true star like Mitchell!

[NASpurs]

https://www.kens5.com/article/sports/nba/spurs/rumor-mill-spurs-packaging-first-round-picks-hawks-no-1-overall-pick-san-antonio/273-f129de29-20db-4344-8984-c300e7905842

Rumor Mill: Spurs possibly exploring packaging first-round picks for Hawks' No. 1 overall pick

[rankingtear]

KJ and Garland have the same agent. Both are in unfavorable circumstances. I think this is a real thing the Klutch guy is trying to get done.

[Ocotillo]

Zach Collins to Memphis, Luke Kennard back to us? Close in salaries I think and it moves us from Collins and Memphis gets a big that they are looking for currently.

[Bruno]

Darius Garland is the name who pop up in various journalists reports. I don't know if there is something serious behind that but there are like 3/4 sources that are linking him with Spurs.

[CGD]

Darius Garland is the name who pop up in various journalists reports. I don't know if there is something serious behind that but there are like 3/4 sources that are linking him with Spurs.

I agree and the ATL rumors have fallen off. If they did opt to go for Garland, I wonder if they do try to get Risacher. Honestly, he would be the best fit in that case (though, the bench would need a lot of work).

Garland
Vassell
Risacher
Sochan
Wemby

[JPB]

Omg, a sucker really is born every minute!

You guys forget the one thing about this draft is it is flat! #1 is about #10 quality in a different draft. And the #1 or #2 in this draft has about a good a chance of being a star as #10 or #11 in this draft. Yet you want to throw in all sorts of assets to move up two spots to guarantee your guy!

Thank god you guys aren’t running the show. We would be fucked. For who? A euro guy nobody has barely watched. His agent made a couple highlight videos that gets you drooling. Well, you should look at his numbers in these playoffs: he didn’t hit a three in the last two games, 7/23 on threes (that’s just 30% on threes!) and just 74% at the line.

He can’t create shit. He can shoot in the corner. He’s not really 3&D cause he doesn’t really shoot threes very well and doesn’t really play D very well either.

Absolutely embarrassing that you would overpay for him, when you can just draft someone like Dillingham at #4 who at least has decent tape and stats and can truly breakdown a defense! Ugh.

It's been twice you came up with fake stats to hate on Risacher.

Risacher shot 37..8% (14/37) in seven PO games. He went 5/12 on the last 2 games.

[DPG21920]

Darius Garland is the name who pop up in various journalists reports. I don't know if there is something serious behind that but there are like 3/4 sources that are linking him with Spurs.

I would hate that tbh….Rather just have Trae for that money…..especially if garland is also going to take picks. If it’s just salaries? Fine.

[Spurs Homer]

Sure hope that “vassell is untouchable” garbage is just a false rumor…

vassell cannot even throw an accurate lob at the tallest guy in the nba…

[mo7888]

I would hate that tbh….Rather just have Trae for that money…..especially if garland is also going to take picks. If it’s just salaries? Fine.

I'm assuming it'll take less picks to get Garland than ot will to get Trae. So it's really Trae vs Garland + whatever the extra picks we save by passing on Trae equate to.

[KingKev]

Sure hope that “vassell is untouchable” garbage is just a false rumor…

vassell cannot even throw an accurate lob at the tallest guy in the nba…

Doubt he is actually anywhere near untouchable just that they currently have a high asking price for him and I doubt many teams are lining up to inquire. As we add talent to the roster he is going to lose touches so he better continue to work on his D.

[Bruno]

I would hate that tbh….Rather just have Trae for that money…..especially if garland is also going to take picks. If it’s just salaries? Fine.

I think Trae is way better than Garland but, if Spurs can get him without giving up too much assets, I would welcome a trade for Garland:

- I don't have an issue with his contract. With the cap raising by 10% each year with the new TV deal and Vassell descending contract structure, it should be fine for Spurs.

- Garland is young, a very solid playmaker and a great shooter. He has a lot of the qualities Spurs should be looking for at the PG for Wemby.

- As said by CGD, a player like Garland works especially well if you can get Risacher in the draft. With a strong playmaking PG, Risacher is just a perfect fit at SF for Spurs. The Garland/Vassell/Risacher/Sochan/Wembanyama lineup is just a very well build and balanced lineup with all the players below 25.

- Lastly, I think the biggest question about Garland is how much the pairing with Mitchel has hurt him?

[Vienna]

If the Spurs trades for Garland it would cost at least the pick that might bring in Risacher, wouldn‘t it.
btw. I like the idea to bring in Garland more than Trea.

[DPG21920]

I'm assuming it'll take less picks to get Garland than ot will to get Trae. So it's really Trae vs Garland + whatever the extra picks we save by passing on Trae equate to.

Sure, but to me with the money and years and talent, I’d rather just cough up the third pick for Trae instead of 2 for Garland if we are going to go that route anyways. You are already functionally going all in unless the difference in Garland and Trae is you get Garland for non-core salaries (meaning no Devin, Sochan or Wemby) + 1 meaningless pick (CHA and some 2nds) and Trae is like 3-4 firsts.

If Garland is still the same players + 2 legit firsts and Trae is just one or two picks more, go Trae.

[DPG21920]

I think Trae is way better than Garland but, if Spurs can get him without giving up too much assets, I would welcome a trade for Garland:

- I don't have an issue with his contract. With the cap raising by 10% each year with the new TV deal and Vassell descending contract structure, it should be fine for Spurs.

- Garland is young, a very solid playmaker and a great shooter. He has a lot of the qualities Spurs should be looking for at the PG for Wemby.

- As said by CGD, a player like Garland works especially well if you can get Risacher in the draft. With a strong playmaking PG, Risacher is just a perfect fit at SF for Spurs. The Garland/Vassell/Risacher/Sochan/Wembanyama lineup is just a very well build and balanced lineup with all the players below 25.

- Lastly, I think the biggest question about Garland is how much the pairing with Mitchel has hurt him?

Sure, Im just under the impression that it would take assets (picks) to get Garland just like Trae. I would only do Garland for something like Keldon+Collins+8 and maybe some seconds. If it’s much beyond that I am out.

I am fine with Garlands deal to if it means just paying him the extra money over what was allocated to Keldon/Collins anyways. That doesn’t bother me too much. But adding in any meaningful picks, especially multiple and I am out 100%. Im just not so sure Garland and Traes values will be different enough to warrant not getting Trae at that point though. We will see.

Garland is solid in theory, but he really only had one legit year. It was not just the Mitchell pairing IMO. Even with Mitchell out I don’t think Garland was playing awesome like that one season.

[mo7888]

Sure, but to me with the money and years and talent, I’d rather just cough up the third pick for Trae instead of 2 for Garland if we are going to go that route anyways. You are already functionally going all in unless the difference in Garland and Trae is you get Garland for non-core salaries (meaning no Devin, Sochan or Wemby) + 1 meaningless pick (CHA and some 2nds) and Trae is like 3-4 firsts.

If Garland is still the same players + 2 legit firsts and Trae is just one or two picks more, go Trae.

I'm just guessing, but I think Atlanta will require their DJ package + 1 extra first and Cleveland will require #8 + Keldon, Graham (salary ballast) + Branham and possibly one other futire Spurs pick

[DPG21920]

I'm just guessing, but I think Atlanta will require their DJ package + 1 extra first and Cleveland will require #8 + Keldon, Graham (salary ballast) + Branham and possibly one other futire Spurs pick

If that’s the case then it makes sense and I choose Garland too. But Im reading plenty on what seems to be many valuing Garland just as much as Trae and I believe that will hold somewhat true vs the example here.

But ya, if its just Keldon + other salaries + 8 that’s no problem at all as Im fine paying Garland all of Keldons money

[rascal]

8 + Charlotte pick back to Charlotte for 6.

Charlotte pick won't have much value to anyone other than Charlotte and it's not likely to convey into a first rounder anyways.

Gives Charlotte incentive to go for the playoffs, a positive for them.

[DPG21920]

8 + Charlotte pick back to Charlotte for 6.

Charlotte pick won't have much value to anyone other than Charlotte and it's not likely to convey into a first rounder anyways.

Gives Charlotte incentive to go for the playoffs, a positive for them.

I think that’s a real possibility if Spurs feel they need to move up to get their guy. For example, if Risacher falls to 4 and Spurs get him there, and they really want Castle or Dillingham or Reed and think they need to move up to get one, I can see that trade happening

[CGD]

If the Spurs trades for Garland it would cost at least the pick that might bring in Risacher, wouldn‘t it.
btw. I like the idea to bring in Garland more than Trea.

It does pose an interesting question as to whether there is a deal to get the Spurs to 2, that is 4 + something that isn’t 8. WAS said to want another lotto pick this draft, so 4 + 8 appeals to them, but then the Spurs would lack the 24FRP to move for Garland (which is my preference).

Suppose the Spurs could build the Garland move around Keldon + CHI & CHA picks + Malaki + salary saving to CLE.

[jjspur]

Seems odd that Garland will make more than Donovan Mitchell next season, but I'm sure Mitchell will eventually get his $$$ and then some as well.

[DPG21920]

Darius Garland is the name who pop up in various journalists reports. I don't know if there is something serious behind that but there are like 3/4 sources that are linking him with Spurs.

What is your thoughts on if hes right though: Would you love Spurs trading 4+8 for Sarr? For Risacher?

[DPG21920]

It does pose an interesting question as to whether there is a deal to get the Spurs to 2, that is 4 + something that isn’t 8. WAS said to want another lotto pick this draft, so 4 + 8 appeals to them, but then the Spurs would lack the 24FRP to move for Garland (which is my preference).

Suppose the Spurs could build the Garland move around Keldon + CHI & CHA picks + Malaki + salary saving to CLE.

I think it would be more like: Spurs trade Keldon + 8 + CHI + 2nds (maybe some other salaries) for Garland then use pick 4 + a future first to move to 1 or 2

[rascal]

I think that’s a real possibility if Spurs feel they need to move up to get their guy. For example, if Risacher falls to 4 and Spurs get him there, and they really want Castle or Dillingham or Reed and think they need to move up to get one, I can see that trade happening

Spurs would be high on a Risacher and Castle outcome

[CGD]

I'm just guessing, but I think Atlanta will require their DJ package + 1 extra first and Cleveland will require #8 + Keldon, Graham (salary ballast) + Branham and possibly one other futire Spurs pick

I agree, plus I think there is the “saving face” factor which complicates any ATL deal. They’re unlikely to come off getting their picks back in a dealing specific to the Spurs. This can’t be overlooked.

There are also other factors specific to the CLE situation that make them a more motivated seller than ATL in a specific dealing with the Spurs. Everything seems to hinge on Mitchell.

Bottom line: a Garland will cost lower quality assets vis-a-vis any direct dealing with ATL.

[CGD]

I think it would be more like: Spurs trade Keldon + 8 + CHI + 2nds (maybe some other salaries) for Garland then use pick 4 + a future first to move to 1 or 2

Oof, I know it’s a packaged deal they also lands Garland, but the prospect of using a future FRP + 4 to grab ZR makes me uneasy. Think I’d at least want WAS to send over 20 as well.

[DPG21920]

Oof, I know it’s a packaged deal they also lands Garland, but the prospect of using a future FRP + 4 to grab ZR makes me uneasy. Think I’d at least want WAS to send over 20 as well.

It wouldn’t be one of ours. Maybe something like 4+ CHI + CHA (which is likely 2 seconds)

[CGD]

Spurs would be high on a Risacher and Castle outcome

Risacher + Castle would be an incredible outcome, I just have a hard time seeing how it happens.

[exstatic]

8 + Charlotte pick back to Charlotte for 6.

Charlotte pick won't have much value to anyone other than Charlotte and it's not likely to convey into a first rounder anyways.

Gives Charlotte incentive to go for the playoffs, a positive for them.

Charlotte isn’t going for the playoffs with a draft buffet like 2025 laid out in front of them.

[CGD]

It wouldn’t be one of ours. Maybe something like 4+ CHI + CHA (which is likely 2 seconds)

Makes sense.

Here’s a trade that puts it all together. I *think* there is enough value all around:

CLE: Kispert; Keldon; Graham; 8; 26
WAS: 4; 20; Malaki; Blake; CHA pick
SAS: Garland; 2 (Risacher)

[scott]

8 + Charlotte pick back to Charlotte for 6.

Charlotte pick won't have much value to anyone other than Charlotte and it's not likely to convey into a first rounder anyways.

Gives Charlotte incentive to go for the playoffs, a positive for them.

IMO, this is a good deal for both teams and makes a lot of sense if it allows the Spurs to go for a wing at 4 and still get Castle at 6. For example: Buzelis at 4, Castle at 6.

CHA may have their eyes on Clingan ahead of POR at 7 though, in which case a team like MEM also might be able to up the ante on a bid for #6.

Some interesting chess moves at play here. You could see a deal like what Rascal proposes happen after pick 8, where CHA takes Castle at 6 and the Spurs take Clingan at 8, then they do the trade.

[DPG21920]

Makes sense.

Here’s a trade that puts it all together. I *think* there is enough value all around:

CLE: Kispert; Keldon; Graham; 8; 26
WAS: 4; 20; Malaki; Blake; CHA pick
SAS: Garland; 2 (Risacher)

Yup. Something like that tracks from SA perspective at least.

[TD 21]

Makes sense.

Here’s a trade that puts it all together. I *think* there is enough value all around:

CLE: Kispert; Keldon; Graham; 8; 26
WAS: 4; 20; Malaki; Blake; CHA pick
SAS: Garland; 2 (Risacher)

The Cavaliers say no. Johnson and Kispert don't address their needs, which are a bigger secondary creator and a stretch four +.

It's why Ingram is probably their primary target and why I've proposed names like Brogdon, Grant and Kuzma.

[Bruno]

What is your thoughts on if hes right though: Would you love Spurs trading 4+8 for Sarr? For Risacher?

It's a flat draft, I think #4 + #8 for #1 or #2 would be an overpay. Sarr and Risacher don't strike me as significantly better prospects than the other top10 prospects. A fair offer for #1 or #2 would be #4 + Bulls pick and I think it would be for Risacher because I'm not sold on Wemby + Sarr especially offensively. If Spurs can get Garland, overpaying for #1 or #2 to get Risacher might make sense because of the great fit.

To get a good player like Garland, Spurs could combine/protect their picks. For example a great trade asset would be:
Best of Bulls (top10 protected), Spurs (top10 protected) or Hawks (top10 protected) 2025 first round pick. If all 3 picks are in the top10, worst of Spurs and Hawks 2025 first round pick.

[CGD]

The Cavaliers say no. Johnson and Kispert don't address their needs, which are a bigger secondary creator and a stretch four +.

It's why Ingram is probably their primary target and why I've proposed names like Brogdon, Grant and Kuzma.

I’d don’t follow the Cavs closely, but looking at their fan boards and the usual sports rags, they consistently point to bigger small forwards and shooting as THE top need. The frustration seems to be mostly directed at Isaac Okoro.

Kispert and Keldon provide depth at that exact position. Pick 8 allows them to go out and draft to fit additional needs, like a Kenect that matches their timeline.

[exstatic]

It's a flat draft, I think #4 + #8 for #1 or #2 would be an overpay. Sarr and Risacher don't strike me as significantly better prospects than the other top10 prospects. A fair offer for #1 or #2 would be #4 + Bulls pick and I think it would be for Risacher because I'm not sold on Wemby + Sarr especially offensively. If Spurs can get Garland, overpaying for #1 or #2 to get Risacher might make sense because of the great fit.

To get a good player like Garland, Spurs could combine/protect their picks. For example a great trade asset would be:
Best of Bulls (top10 protected), Spurs (top10 protected) or Hawks (top10 protected) 2025 first round pick. If all 3 picks are in the top10, worst of Spurs and Hawks 2025 first round pick.

I wouldn’t trade any 2025 first round assets. Even if the Chi pick is like 12 and ATL finished 10th and doesn’t jump up, those two players are likely to be better than the players at the top of this draft.

[sfernald]

It's been twice you came up with fake stats to hate on Risacher.

Risacher shot 37..8% (14/37) in seven PO games. He went 5/12 on the last 2 games.

Not fake stats.

Heres the link:
https://www.proballers.com/basketball/player/212368/zaccharie-risacher/games

I did fail to specify last 5 games (which was the time when everyone has a hard on for him. Any mock you read right now says he ended the playoffs super strong but I’m still seeing 7/23 three point percentage during the last five games unless I’m reading it wrong? He’s totally overrated bottom line.

[exstatic]

Not fake stats.

Heres the link:
https://www.proballers.com/basketball/player/212368/zaccharie-risacher/games

I did fail to specify last 5 games (which was the time when everyone has a hard on for him. Any mock you read right now says he ended the playoffs super strong but I’m still seeing 7/23 three point percentage during the last five games unless I’m reading it wrong? He’s totally overrated bottom line.

That’s why people are scoffing you.

[sfernald]

That’s why people are scoffing you.

And I’m admitting my mistake. I am standing by the fact he is super streaky and he will
give you five shit games and then one great game. Seems like he’ll fit right in on the Spurs!

[exstatic]

And I’m admitting my mistake. I am standing by the fact he is super streaky and he will
give you five shit games and then one great game. Seems like he’ll fit right in on the Spurs!

Fair enough. Samples, in context and large enough can be useful. Shouldn’t be overused, or your number one go to,though.

[DPG21920]

It's a flat draft, I think #4 + #8 for #1 or #2 would be an overpay. Sarr and Risacher don't strike me as significantly better prospects than the other top10 prospects. A fair offer for #1 or #2 would be #4 + Bulls pick and I think it would be for Risacher because I'm not sold on Wemby + Sarr especially offensively. If Spurs can get Garland, overpaying for #1 or #2 to get Risacher might make sense because of the great fit.

To get a good player like Garland, Spurs could combine/protect their picks. For example a great trade asset would be:
Best of Bulls (top10 protected), Spurs (top10 protected) or Hawks (top10 protected) 2025 first round pick. If all 3 picks are in the top10, worst of Spurs and Hawks 2025 first round pick.

That’s a good framing - I agree just in general that I don’t like the idea of trading 4+8 for 1 but there may be a context where it makes sense (like a Garland/Trae deal). I just want SA to take their time and not rush for players with very real flaws as “stars” and using too many picks when it’s those picks that provide the best path towards building something real and sustainable

[sfernald]

Fair enough. Samples, in context and large enough can be useful. Shouldn’t be overused, or your number one go to,though.

Particularly with this guy everyone has a different number. You can go to ten mocks and find ten different 3 point numbers. The only thing I can take is I don’t trust his shooting one bit and that’s supposed to be his biggest strength. Thank god we probably have about a one percent chance of actually drafting this bum.

[Pauleta14]

And I’m admitting my mistake. I am standing by the fact he is super streaky and he will
give you five shit games and then one great game. Seems like he’ll fit right in on the Spurs!

You need to add some context, he's not a 1st/2nd option like he would be in college. He's a youngster integrating a team of pros. He doesn't always have the same role depending on match-ups and/or teammates availailities etc

He also played +65 games already, which is probabaly the most by far for any prospect of his age category. College players barely played half... against much easier oppositions

[Knoxxx]

It's a flat draft, I think #4 + #8 for #1 or #2 would be an overpay. Sarr and Risacher don't strike me as significantly better prospects than the other top10 prospects. A fair offer for #1 or #2 would be #4 + Bulls pick and I think it would be for Risacher because I'm not sold on Wemby + Sarr especially offensively. If Spurs can get Garland, overpaying for #1 or #2 to get Risacher might make sense because of the great fit.

To get a good player like Garland, Spurs could combine/protect their picks. For example a great trade asset would be:
Best of Bulls (top10 protected), Spurs (top10 protected) or Hawks (top10 protected) 2025 first round pick. If all 3 picks are in the top10, worst of Spurs and Hawks 2025 first round pick.

Spurs could trade back ATL picks for 2024 #1 and Murray. Also could offload Keldon Johnson and/or Collins in such a deal.

Not sure why such an obvious win win for ATL and SAS is not being discussed, other then Spurs talk posters in love with 2025 draft of course.

[Duncan2177]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ8g29M0D8Q

[exstatic]

Spurs could trade back ATL picks for 2024 #1 and Murray. Also could offload Keldon Johnson and/or Collins in such a deal.

Not sure why such an obvious win win for ATL and SAS is not being discussed, other then Spurs talk posters in love with 2025 draft of course.

If you’re not in love with the 2025 draft, you’re just not paying attention. It’s MUCH more than just Cooper Flagg. This has a chance to be a fucking goldmine like 2003, which had LeBron , DWade, and Carmelo. Whoever goes #1 this year probably goes 8 or 10 next year.

I’m convinced that Detroit GM Troy Weaver was fired because he traded an unprotected first next year for an undersized rim runner in Duren. He’d been incompetent for years, but that may have finally pushed ownership to move on.

[baseline bum]

8 + Charlotte pick back to Charlotte for 6.

Charlotte pick won't have much value to anyone other than Charlotte and it's not likely to convey into a first rounder anyways.

Gives Charlotte incentive to go for the playoffs, a positive for them.

Charlotte's not going to try for the playoffs with such a strong draft class in 25 after they tanked for such a trash draft class in 24.

[mo7888]

If you’re not in love with the 2025 draft, you’re just not paying attention. It’s MUCH more than just Cooper Flagg. This has a chance to be a fucking goldmine like 2003, which had LeBron , DWade, and Carmelo. Whoever goes #1 this year probably goes 8 or 10 next year.

I’m convinced that Detroit GM Troy Weaver was fired because he traded an unprotected first next year for an undersized rim runner in Duren. He’d been incompetent for years, but that may have finally pushed ownership to move on.

Is that Detroit pick unprotected? I thought it was protected 1-13?

[LeBowen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ8g29M0D8Q

I see no reason why would Hawks do this?
If we break it down in #1 for #4+#8 and DJ for Keldon, Wesley and '25 pick back, it doesn't look good for them.

Would effectively mean they traded '26 swap, '27 FRP and Keldon for DJ rental and then traded down in '24 draft.
Wesley is useless and offers no value.

As I said the other day, if Spurs want to fix their guard situation, getting DJ and then Monk in FA would be perfect.
Send Keldon+Tre and some combination of their picks returned. Tre has value and would be a good backup for them.
I'd try to keep '25 pick, with '26 swap and '27 returned.

Effective trade would be Keldon+Tre for '25 FRP which lets them save face a bit.

DJ, Devin and Monk would be good enough guard rotation for many years. Any combination between them works and they're all different types of guard.
Defense would be a positive with DJ and Devin, we'd have a 6th man that could score 20 on any given night and most importantly none of them would be making a lot of money.

Guards are so difficult to get right in the draft and develop, this would mean guard rotation is set and we'd just need to find some forwards.
And '25 draft is full of them.

(I also suggested a Markkanen trade, but idk how realistic that one is.)

[JPB]

I'm not sure Garland would cost that much less, if any, than Trae.

And while I understand why one would prefer Garland as a player over Trae in a vacuum, I wonder if Trae's game and skills might not be a better fit with wemby. Garland may also be a tad overrated.

[Duncan2177]

I see no reason why would Hawks do this?
If we break it down in #1 for #4+#8 and DJ for Keldon, Wesley and '25 pick back, it doesn't look good for them.

Would effectively mean they traded '26 swap, '27 FRP and Keldon for DJ rental and then traded down in '24 draft.
Wesley is useless and offers no value.

As I said the other day, if Spurs want to fix their guard situation, getting DJ and then Monk in FA would be perfect.
Send Keldon+Tre and some combination of their picks returned. Tre has value and would be a good backup for them.
I'd try to keep '25 pick, with '26 swap and '27 returned.

Effective trade would be Keldon+Tre for '25 FRP which lets them save face a bit.

DJ, Devin and Monk would be good enough guard rotation for many years. Any combination between them works and they're all different types of guard.
Defense would be a positive with DJ and Devin, we'd have a 6th man that could score 20 on any given night and most importantly none of them would be making a lot of money.

Guards are so difficult to get right in the draft and develop, this would mean guard rotation is set and we'd just need to find some forwards.
And '25 draft is full of them.

(I also suggested a Markkanen trade, but idk how realistic that one is.)

I think the spurs should just keep 4 and 8 unless it's for Markkanen but I don't see Utah doing that.

[exstatic]

Is that Detroit pick unprotected? I thought it was protected 1-13?

You’re right. I was reading it in an article, and it didn’t mention the protection which is kind of important. A quick trip to the RealGM future picks page shows what you said..

[JPB]

Not fake stats.

Heres the link:
https://www.proballers.com/basketball/player/212368/zaccharie-risacher/games

I did fail to specify last 5 games (which was the time when everyone has a hard on for him. Any mock you read right now says he ended the playoffs super strong but I’m still seeing 7/23 three point percentage during the last five games unless I’m reading it wrong? He’s totally overrated bottom line.

why cherry picking your stats to hate on the guy?

You could also said he shot 7/16 (43%) on his last 3 games vs. Monaco, a top Euroleague team. Risacher just add two bad outings on 3 in this POs (not the last 2 games as you stated) and you chose to isolate them witihin his last 5 games to try and present him as a bad shooter.. That's why you make overall % stats, to eliminate bad and great games. And truth is he shot a bit less than 38% on 3 in those PO which he's been praised for overall, not just the last 5 games.

[LeBowen]

I think the spurs should just keep 4 and 8 unless it's for Markkanen but I don't see Utah doing that.

I made a long post in ideal offseason topic, short version would be something like:
Trade Keldon, Tre, return '26 swap and '27 pick for DJ.
Trade Collins, #8 Spurs '24, '25 Chicago and two more FRPs for Markkanen. (If he's 100% committed to staying.)
Sign Monk to be the 6th man and a cheap forward like Highsmith in FA.
Draft let's say Castle.
Get a veteran backup big if Bassey is cooked after his injuries and they don't think Barlow is good enough.
Maybe keep Mamu.

DJ/Devin/Sochan/Lauri/Wemby
Monk/Castle/Champagnie/Highsmith/Bassey
Branham, Wesley, Sidy asthird stringers waiting for another chance to prove themselves.

Forward rotation would be kind of weak, can't fix everything in one summer.
But would still have most picks left, depending on which ones go to Jazz.
Markkanen trade isn't that realistic, but I'd definitely do the DJ and Monk bit to sort out our guard rotation long-term.

[Dverde]

Trading Cleveland Tre Jones (a better fit than Garland) to play with Donovan Mitchell then getting Keldon to fill their 3 slot seems to make sense to me. Also trading them #4 or #8 which could get them a PG prospect like Dillingham or Sheppard to be the future starter with Donovan. Malaki Branham played basketball at Ohio State and has ties in the community. I could see a deal with Cleveland if they like the Spurs sale pitch.

[kobyz]

Is it possible to trade back to Atlanta their pick but make it a top 3 protected?

[spurraider21]

Charlotte's not going to try for the playoffs with such a strong draft class in 25 after they tanked for such a trash draft class in 24.
i dont think charlotte make a conscious decision to injure Lamelo and Mark Williams

[pad300]

...

To get a good player like Garland ...

Are we wiling to say that Garland (or Trae Young) is a good player?

Compare Garland and Trae Young (and Tre Jones for a measuring stick)
https://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/compare?utf8=%E2%9C%93&player_ids%5B%5D=3538&player_ids%5B%5D=3368&player_ids%5B%5D=4186&season=2023

[MultiTroll]

Trading Cleveland Tre Jones
Keldon
#4 or #8
Malaki Branham

All of the above for Garland?

[sfernald]

You need to add some context, he's not a 1st/2nd option like he would be in college. He's a youngster integrating a team of pros. He doesn't always have the same role depending on match-ups and/or teammates availailities etc

He also played +65 games already, which is probabaly the most by far for any prospect of his age category. College players barely played half... against much easier oppositions

I do apologize that I sort of made the stats to fit my argument but I feel like everyone does that for this guy in particular. 11 rebounds recently in two games suddenly means he’s an outstanding rebounder too apparently.

Do you actually like him as the top prospect? It seems like his best case is like Tobias Harris or someone sort of like that. I can’t believe people actually would consider drafting someone like that so high when there’s potential game changers like Dillingham and Topic on the board.

[mo7888]

I made a long post in ideal offseason topic, short version would be something like:
Trade Keldon, Tre, return '26 swap and '27 pick for DJ.
Trade Collins, #8 Spurs '24, '25 Chicago and two more FRPs for Markkanen. (If he's 100% committed to staying.)
Sign Monk to be the 6th man and a cheap forward like Highsmith in FA.
Draft let's say Castle.
Get a veteran backup big if Bassey is cooked after his injuries and they don't think Barlow is good enough.
Maybe keep Mamu.

DJ/Devin/Sochan/Lauri/Wemby
Monk/Castle/Champagnie/Highsmith/Bassey
Branham, Wesley, Sidy asthird stringers waiting for another chance to prove themselves.

Forward rotation would be kind of weak, can't fix everything in one summer.
But would still have most picks left, depending on which ones go to Jazz.
Markkanen trade isn't that realistic, but I'd definitely do the DJ and Monk bit to sort out our guard rotation long-term.

I'm kinda digging that... We keep the 25 Atl pick. The first question I'd have is that would we rather have DJ than Garland, because I think the cost would be similar (some 26 swap substitution)? As for the forward rotation Mamu would be wise and we could add a DFS/Royce O'Neale type for probably 2nd rd picks to shore that up short-term.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Is it possible to trade back to Atlanta their pick but make it a top 3 protected?

Yes.

[baseline bum]

i dont think charlotte make a conscious decision to injure Lamelo and Mark Williams

Death, taxes, and LaMelo in street clothes

[LeBowen]

The first question I'd have is that would we rather have DJ than Garland

After going over potential solutions to our PG situation, DJ ticks the most boxes, imo.
If we assume Devin is going to stay long-term, we need a POA defender and a primary playmaker. Would also be nice if that player has a respectable shot.
The only viable target that fits those needs is DJ. If we get Garland, Trae, Topic, Dillingham or whoever else, we'd still need a POA defender.
And it's way more difficult to find a wing that's able to chase star playmakers around screens and is also able to shoot. Would also mean Jeremy has to be moved to the bench.
That's just basketball bit.

Then you look at contracts around the leauge.
DJ's contract is one of best value deals.
25/27/29/31 million a year, ending in 2028. Last year is player option. Make it 2027 if you will.
His entire prime will be really cheap.
And there are no concerns about his fit or adaptability to how Spurs run things.

Garland on the other hand might be a better shooter, but is undersized and a bad defender.
34/36/39/42/44 million a year all the way up to 2028.
Idk if he's worth the money mainly because we'd still need to find a primary defender.

The other thing we need badly is a reliable 6th man.
Someone who you can rely on to score 20 if starters are struggling.
Monk is that guy and he's a free agent. I doubt he can get more than 20 million a year anywhere.
Could give him a front-loaded deal to help us later on. Something like 25/23/21/19.

You'd have two-way playmaker with respectable shot, (hopefully) a great off-ball 22-24ppg shooting guard who's a positive defender and a 6th man that can take over if necessary.
Any combo between three of them would work.


As for the forward rotation Mamu would be wise and we could add a DFS/Royce O'Neale type for probably 2nd rd picks to shore that up short-term.

I mentioned Highsmith because he's a FA and I thought he played good defense against the Celtics. His shoting kind of fell off, but is to be expected from a role player when stars are injured.
Anyhow, same thing, just a veteran forward for 15mpg or so.

With guard rotation set, Wemby developing into a parennial MVP candidate (and winner), we'd just need a forward that shoots high volume from deep and doesn't need the ball.
Markkanen is wishful thinking, I don't think Ainge lets him go this summer, but should be the priority until he actually signs an extension with the Jazz.

Wemby's extension won't kick in before 27-28 season, imagine having DJ, Devin, Monk, Lauri, Wemby on just ~$130M combined with projected cap at $155M in 25-26 or $170M in 26-27 when the new TV deal kicks in.
Strike gold with two 3-D forwards in '25 draft and...well, that's a wall of text again. :rollin

I hope you get the point why I think DJ is too good of an option not to trade for.

[Dverde]

All of the above for Garland?

Plus additional draft compensation. I really like Garland. I think Wemby could elevate his play like Duncan elevated Parker.

[exstatic]

Atlanta isn’t trading us Trae or DJ for anything less than all of their picks back.

[LeBowen]

Atlanta isn’t trading us Trae or DJ for anything less than all of their picks back.

I thought so too, but our offer would still be the best for them long-term.
It's effectively Keldon+Tre for '25 FRP. Still sucks, but they'd get two of the three picks back and two rotation players in positions they need.

[mo7888]

Atlanta isn’t trading us Trae or DJ for anything less than all of their picks back.

I disagree. For Trae that's probably right, but DJ is on a different contract, they have a different management team, and they'd be getting a player or two. It's not as simple as 'saving face by getting everything back'.

[MultiTroll]

Detroit GM Troy Weaver was fired because he traded an unprotected first next year for an undersized rim runner in Duren. He’d been incompetent for years, but that may have finally pushed ownership to move on.
Who scored that pick?

Update: The Hornets

[exstatic]

I thought so too, but our offer would still be the best for them long-term.
It's effectively Keldon+Tre for '25 FRP. Still sucks, but they'd get two of the three picks back and two rotation players in positions they need.

I honestly think they would take less from another team than us.

We should probably get used to no teams cutting us a deal after winning the Alien draft lottery. 29 teams hate us now, and will extract maximum value in any deals, or no deal.

[exstatic]

I disagree. For Trae that's probably right, but DJ is on a different contract, they have a different management team, and they'd be getting a player or two. It's not as simple as 'saving face by getting everything back'.

If they take less from us, they essentially just gave away pick or picks for free. If another team offers less, it can be spun as a marketplace shift. If we get him for less, we swindled them, twice. Sometimes it is that simple, but we can disagree on this.

[LeBowen]

I honestly think they would take less from another team than us.

We should probably get used to no teams cutting us a deal after winning the Alien draft lottery. 29 teams hate us now, and will extract maximum value in any deals, or no deal.
No way they hate us more than the Lakers after decades of lowballing and tampering with players. :rollin

I can see West playoff teams not wanting to deal with us, but East teams won't care that much.
As if Hawks are ever going to make the finals.

[exstatic]

No way they hate us more than the Lakers after decades of lowballing and tampering with players. :rollin

I can see West playoff teams not wanting to deal with us, but East teams won't care that much.
As if Hawks are ever going to make the finals.

It’s not about east or west or playoffs or no playoffs. They already got screwed by us once. If we get one of their guards for less than their picks back, we screwed them a second time. No one wants to be a chump.

[mo7888]

If they take less from us, they essentially just gave away pick or picks for free. If another team offers less, it can be spun as a marketplace shift. If we get him for less, we swindled them, twice. Sometimes it is that simple, but we can disagree on this.

If they had the same management in place, I'd agree.... new management can easily take the best deal and throw blame/shade at rhe previous regime.... that will sell PR-wise.

[LeBowen]

It’s not about east or west or playoffs or no playoffs. They already got screwed by us once. If we get one of their guards for less than their picks back, we screwed them a second time. No one wants to be a chump.

They just won the lottery and it looks like they're keeping Trae.
Got some solid players, they'll dump Capela and try to get a few more pieces.
'25 FRP won't be top10 unless lightning strikes twice.

I'd rather get Keldon, Tre and two picks back than trade DJ for Ingram.
If they prefer taking whatever shitty offer Lakers make, even better for us and the value of their picks we own.
Orlando is the only team that will probably make a good offer for Trae, it's unlikely they'd want DJ.

[Pauleta14]

I do apologize that I sort of made the stats to fit my argument but I feel like everyone does that for this guy in particular. 11 rebounds recently in two games suddenly means he’s an outstanding rebounder too apparently.

Do you actually like him as the top prospect? It seems like his best case is like Tobias Harris or someone sort of like that. I can’t believe people actually would consider drafting someone like that so high when there’s potential game changers like Dillingham and Topic on the board.

I strongly believe the difference is most of the time made with all the intengibles you can't mesure, like entourage, work ethic, IQ, charachter/determination etc

ZR already checks the box in terms of size, length, fundamentals. Then you add his entourage (dad former pro) and pre-NBA career built smartly step by step like Wemby's (he also changed club for a more adapted one with more playing time for ex)

I just heard on the Lowe podcast Givony say that ZR actually played 75(!!!) games. It's insane at his age and it's not surprising that you find streaks where he's less poductive ... at 19yo ...for his 1st eperience ... vs pros men

The same logic could be applied to other prospects in the draft in terms of entourage, ethic, IQ etc but the collegian level is really weak and 1 short season vs very diverse level of opposition doesn't give you a proper idea.

I don't see ZR as a future allstar tbh but a very versatile and reliable role player who won't have playmaking duties but will be able to defend 1-4, cut, pass and shoot the 3

I'm 100% sure he'll have a long NBA career, not sure at what level.

Most other picks I like in this draft (Reed Dilli Castle Holland Cody for ex) have maybe better upside but bigger bust probabilities as well imho

[TD 21]

I’d don’t follow the Cavs closely, but looking at their fan boards and the usual sports rags, they consistently point to bigger small forwards and shooting as THE top need. The frustration seems to be mostly directed at Isaac Okoro.

Kispert and Keldon provide depth at that exact position. Pick 8 allows them to go out and draft to fit additional needs, like a Kenect that matches their timeline.

Johnson isn't a bigger small forward though, he's about the same size as Strus and Okoro (Kispert too) and isn't a floor spacer either.

No matter what some of their fans want, Okoro will probably be re-signed and they're likely to focus on the archetypes I mentioned on the trade front. The Spurs can serve as a vehicle to them via mostly draft capital, but they can't give it to them directly.


Trading Cleveland Tre Jones (a better fit than Garland) to play with Donovan Mitchell then getting Keldon to fill their 3 slot seems to make sense to me. Also trading them #4 or #8 which could get them a PG prospect like Dillingham or Sheppard to be the future starter with Donovan. Malaki Branham played basketball at Ohio State and has ties in the community. I could see a deal with Cleveland if they like the Spurs sale pitch.

The idea of trading Garland is to have Mitchell be the lone starting small guard and Johnson isn't an upgrade on Strus and Okoro.

[sfernald]

I strongly believe the difference is most of the time made with all the intengibles you can't mesure, like entourage, work ethic, IQ, charachter/determination etc

ZR already checks the box in terms of size, length, fundamentals. Then you add his entourage (dad former pro) and pre-NBA career built smartly step by step like Wemby's (he also changed club for a more adapted one with more playing time for ex)

I just heard on the Lowe podcast Givony say that ZR actually played 75(!!!) games. It's insane at his age and it's not surprising that you find streaks where he's less poductive ... at 19yo ...for his 1st eperience ... vs pros men

The same logic could be applied to other prospects in the draft in terms of entourage, ethic, IQ etc but the collegian level is really weak and 1 short season vs very diverse level of opposition doesn't give you a proper idea.

I don't see ZR as a future allstar tbh but a very versatile and reliable role player who won't have playmaking duties but will be able to defend 1-4, cut, pass and shoot the 3

I'm 100% sure he'll have a long NBA career, not sure at what level.

Most other picks I like in this draft (Reed Dilli Castle Holland Cody for ex) have maybe better upside but bigger bust probabilities as well imho

Thanks, that actually helps my understanding.

But now new crisis according to experts after his injury we can expect Spurs to be all over Topić at #8 lol!��


https://youtu.be/nxF8lEEVFZw?si=7FNl701B5kUs_4S7

[RC_Drunkford]

with how weak this draft is I wouldn't trade up. With how stacked the 25 draft is, I wouldn't trade any of our 25 picks. Garland's value is down since playing with Mitchell hurt his stats, but other teams also trying to trade for him will drive up the price. The only picks I'd be willing to move are #8, the CHA first and a bunch of 2nd rounders. There's no way you get Garland for that and Keldon Johnson tbh. I'm in the "keep the powder dry" camp right now, unless there's a deal out there where you pull of a heist.

[exstatic]

with how weak this draft is I wouldn't trade up. With how stacked the 25 draft is, I wouldn't trade any of our 25 picks. Garland's value is down since playing with Mitchell inflated his stats, but other teams also trying to trade for him will drive up the price. The only picks I'd be willing to move are #8, the CHA first and a bunch of 2nd rounders. There's no way you get Garland for that and Keldon Johnson tbh. I'm in the "keep the powder dry" camp right now, unless there's a deal out there where you pull of a heist.

I agree with pretty much everything except this. Garland was an All Star the year before Mitchell arrived, and his stats took a small hit in year one, and a bigger hit in year two. Playing with Mitchell in no way helped him.

[CGD]

with how weak this draft is I wouldn't trade up. With how stacked the 25 draft is, I wouldn't trade any of our 25 picks. Garland's value is down since playing with Mitchell inflated his stats, but other teams also trying to trade for him will drive up the price. The only picks I'd be willing to move are #8, the CHA first and a bunch of 2nd rounders. There's no way you get Garland for that and Keldon Johnson tbh. I'm in the "keep the powder dry" camp right now, unless there's a deal out there where you pull of a heist.

Who do you think the other suitors for his services would be realistically? I’m sure they exist but I also wonder if they’re matches. I think the biggest contender is Orlando tbh.

Like what are the best packages LAL, ORL, and BYN could build?

[exstatic]

If they had the same management in place, I'd agree.... new management can easily take the best deal and throw blame/shade at rhe previous regime.... that will sell PR-wise.

The former GM quit over this very deal, because, and stop me if you’ve heard it before, the owner’s failson drove the deal to the deficit of the franchise. It doesn’t matter that the regime is new. The owner would still have to sign off on something like this, a deficit trade, and I doubt he does. It would bring back into the public conversation what a yutz his son is.

[mo7888]

The former GM quit over this very deal, because, and stop me if you’ve heard it before, the owner’s failson drove the deal to the deficit of the franchise. It doesn’t matter that the regime is new. The owner would still have to sign off on something like this, a deficit trade, and I doubt he does. It would bring back into the public conversation what a yutz his son is.

That could be. My experience with spoiled entitled Kids is that they don't take responsibility for anything. He is probably so oblivious that he doesn't even recognize his culpability.

[SpursBills]

Trae vs Darius vs Dejounte is an interesting argument - I do agree that from a team-building perspective Dejounte is easily the most natural fit especially with Vassell's declined defense, but it does require a significant amount of buy-in on the defensive end from him. Dejounte's defensive impact cratered on the Hawks and part of it was definitely due to his being miscast starting next to Trae and being unable to use his relative size advantage. However, even in SA his last season, his defensive impact went down with his offensive role increased. You'd have to hope that with a reduced offensive role with Vassell and Wemby in the fold, he can get back to his early spurs years level which would require a decent amount of buy-in on his part.

https://i.postimg.cc/MGf7kL4F/DPM.pnghttps://i.postimg.cc/SxsLdRGq/ODPM.pnghttps://i.postimg.cc/x14v4Qsm/D-DPM.png

[scott]

If they had the same management in place, I'd agree.... new management can easily take the best deal and throw blame/shade at rhe previous regime.... that will sell PR-wise.

I’m trying to think of examples where a team re-acquired (via trade) a player they traded away. The only one I can think of is that the Pistons gave us Rodman for Elliott, and then turned around and sent him back for Bill Curly (lol). There were some extenuating circumstances (Rodman holing up in the Palace with a shotgun; Elliott getting chubby, having some injuries in DET) there… but there is an example of a team getting a reduced return to “undo” a trade.

With that said, the Spurs also paid Sean Elliott to get Rodman, and then turnaround and gave him away for freakin’ Will Purdue.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Atlanta isn’t trading us Trae or DJ for anything less than all of their picks back.

Now we know we can get DJ for less.

[pookenstein]

Would you do Keldon, Malaki, #8 and Cha pick for Laurin and Clarkson? Or maybe our #4 instead of #8 and we get their #10. Both scenarios work on the trade machine.
Would Utha do it? If not, what do you think would it take to get it done?
Clarkson has 2 years at 14M left, Lauri expires after this season.

[RC_Drunkford]

I agree with pretty much everything except this. Garland was an All Star the year before Mitchell arrived, and his stats took a small hit in year one, and a bigger hit in year two. Playing with Mitchell in no way helped him.

yeah my bad I meant to say his stats went down by playing with Mitchell. You put him on the Spurs and he's gon average 20 PPG again in no time

[exstatic]

Would you do Keldon, Malaki, #8 and Cha pick for Laurin and Clarkson? Or maybe our #4 instead of #8 and we get their #10. Both scenarios work on the trade machine.
Would Utha do it? If not, what do you think would it take to get it done?
Clarkson has 2 years at 14M left, Lauri expires after this season.

Danny Ainge is an asshole, so no,they won’t do that this summer. If Lauri doesn’t extend,and it looks like they may lose him at the deadline, his price may drop.

[JPB]

Would you do Keldon, Malaki, #8 and Cha pick for Laurin and Clarkson?
Clarkson has 2 years at 14M left, Lauri expires after this season.

I believe everyone does that trade, except Utah.

[pookenstein]

I believe everyone does that trade, except Utah.

What do you think Utha would want to get it done?

[Teamduncan21]

What do you think Utha would want to get it done?

Probably the hawks pick or something.
Seems quite low-ball for Lauri if it's keldon and this years pick(s)

[LeBowen]

Probably the hawks pick or something.
Seems quite low-ball for Lauri if it's keldon and this years pick(s)

Ainge doesn't pick up the phone without three or four solid FRPs.
Price would be lower at the deadline if Lauri doesn't extend.

[JPB]

What do you think Utha would want to get it done?

I'm not sure but I don't believe #8 + CHA pick would be enough of a difference maker for Utah to bite. Ainge would problably expect more valuable picks and/or assets in return.

[CGD]

Heard a version of this trade on a pod. What do folks think:

SAS: #11; Ayo Dosunmu
CHI: #8; #35

I would feel much better drafting a Salun or Williams in that range.
Spurs pick up in interesting 6'5" combo guard. Toss in Blake if needed.

[montgod]

Heard a version of this trade on a pod. What do folks think:

SAS: #11; Ayo Dosunmu
CHI: #8; #35

I would feel much better drafting a Salun or Williams in that range.
Spurs pick up in interesting 6'5" combo guard. Toss in Blake if needed.

I actually would like that trade. I've been hoping and talking about how Spurs FO should look into trying to trade for Ayo. He played well when he was starting last year and was compared to Jrue.

[montgod]

Would you do Keldon, Malaki, #8 and Cha pick for Laurin and Clarkson? Or maybe our #4 instead of #8 and we get their #10. Both scenarios work on the trade machine.
Would Utha do it? If not, what do you think would it take to get it done?
Clarkson has 2 years at 14M left, Lauri expires after this season.

I've only heard that Ainge will try to re-sign Lauri and start using some of his draft capital to trade for some players to put around him now vs later. On your offer though, no way Ainge gives up that little for those two players or even Lauri by himself.

[CGD]

I actually would like that trade. I've been hoping and talking about how Spurs FO should look into trying to trade for Ayo. He played well when he was starting last year and was compared to Jrue.

And to be fair, the original version that was being kicked around was for 4 instead of 8, which i thought was rich. But, if you are saying the comp is Jru, then maybe its not crazy?

[montgod]

And to be fair, the original version that was being kicked around was for 4 instead of 8, which i thought was rich. But, if you are saying the comp is Jru, then maybe its not crazy?

Yeah I heard Spurs were interested in him before he re-signed with CHI. He was restricted though. So if CHI wants to shake things up especially with that albatross of a contract for Levine and possibly re-singing Derozen, Ayo may be available and be a nice young talent on a manageable contract. In this draft, I'd definitely be open to giving up the 8th/35th picks to swap for the 11th and Ayo. For the fourth, I guess it depends who the Spurs value in this draft and who is there after the first three are gone.

[mo7888]

Heard a version of this trade on a pod. What do folks think:

SAS: #11; Ayo Dosunmu
CHI: #8; #35

I would feel much better drafting a Salun or Williams in that range.
Spurs pick up in interesting 6'5" combo guard. Toss in Blake if needed.

I'd do that deal right now.... sign me up..

[Extra Stout]

Cavs get:
2024 #4 pick
2024 #8 pick
2025 Spurs own FRP 1-10 protected
Keldon Johnson
Devonte’ Graham

Spurs get:
Darius Garland
2024 #20 pick

[DPG21920]

Cavs get:
2024 #4 pick
2024 #8 pick
2025 Spurs own FRP 1-10 protected
Keldon Johnson
Devonte’ Graham

Spurs get:
Darius Garland
2024 #20 pick

No thanks. Rather just get Trae for that or another pick added to that even. Take our pick out of it and let them keep their pick this year and maybe.

[CGD]

Cavs get:
2024 #4 pick
2024 #8 pick
2025 Spurs own FRP 1-10 protected
Keldon Johnson
Devonte’ Graham

Spurs get:
Darius Garland
2024 #20 pick

Too rich in my view. We only really need to outbid ORL, but they may be hot for Trae or DJ too.

Keldon, Malaki, 8, 35 and maybe CHI pick should do it.