Spurs trade ideas

[scott]

Vucevik would be great for a couple years. What are the chances Blazers deal 21 year old Clingan?

No intel, but my guess is that close to zero unless it's in a deal that nets them some kind of star (which I don't think they are even hunting for). I would not view their drafting of Yang Hansen as an indictment on how they feel about Clingan (who remember they just used a Top 10 pick on a year ago), at all.

[exstatic]

How long do you think Spurs keep Fox? Aren't Castle and Harper still too green to take Wemby to the playoffs? Wouldn't it be smarter to keep Fox for a few years then offload him after he potentially helps Wemby make the playoffs, or do you think we offload him after a few years. Fox and Wemby pair at the present moment is pretty tantalizing, while the other 2 guards are the future.

My thought is 3-4 years depending on the structure and length of his extension.

[LeBowen]

My thought is 3-4 years depending on the structure and length of his extension.

This will be his age 28 season.
Hopefully we can make that extension a 3+1 deal.
He'd get the most money he can get in age 29/30/31 seasons.
After that Harper's extension kicks in and Fox either gets traded or takes a paycut to win some more rings.

[Ariel]

How realistic do you think a trade centered around Vucevic and Keldon Johnson could be?

If it goes down:

Fox --------- Harper
Castle ----- Champagnie
Vassell ----- Bryant
Barnes ------ Sochan
Wemby ----- Vucevic

A much more cohesive rotation.
What the Spurs need is a rim protector when Wemby is off the floor and, in that regard, Vucevic isn't even an improvement over Zach Collins. I'd do that trade just to move off of Keldon's contract final year though.

[DAF86]

What the Spurs need is a rim protector when Wemby is off the floor and, in that regard, Vucevic isn't even an improvement over Zach Collins. I'd do that trade just to move off of Keldon's contract final year though.

Vucevic's shortcomings as a defender are greatly exagerated. Yeah, he's far from good, but he's not as bad as people on this board seem to think he is. Also, look at the lineup he would be playing alongside, all average to above average defenders, there's no Keldon or Branham to contaminate the overall production. That should help him.

Also, the versatility that he would offer on offense could open up a bunch of different scenarios for the team, including the two bigmen lineup. I would rather add Vucevic than a rim protecting big with no offensive game, tbh.

[Ignazzz]

35 years old. Yeah his D will be better for sure

[RC_Drunkford]

I would even be willing to give up a second rounder or two. 18 and 10 and metrics say Vucevic isn't as bad defensively as perceived, by most metrics he's average.

I don't know what has gotten into many Spurs fans that see Keldon as this untradable piece or worth keeping over one of our few above average 3 point shooters (Vassell), but he's damn worthless at both sides of the floor. Turning Keldon into Vucevic would greatly improve our team.

trading Keldon for basically any capable NBA player would improve the Spurs immediately on both ends

[mystargtr34]

Vucevic has always been a disgusting defender when I watch him play but as a backup C for 20 minutes a night I think his offensive talent outweighs the defense. You’d just have to try pair him with a few good defenders in the 2nd unit like Sochan, hopefully Carter Bryant etc.

[BackHome]

Could go after Sharpe - He is a big boy can't shoot but he will rebound and protect the paint pretty good.

[ginobilized]

trading Keldon for basically any capable NBA player would improve the Spurs immediately on both ends

Take the gun barrel out of your mouth, it's Sunday, and you're not wrong.

[exstatic]

Vucevic's shortcomings as a defender are greatly exagerated. Yeah, he's far from good, but he's not as bad as people on this board seem to think he is. Also, look at the lineup he would be playing alongside, all average to above average defenders, there's no Keldon or Branham to contaminate the overall production. That should help him.

Also, the versatility that he would offer on offense could open up a bunch of different scenarios for the team, including the two bigmen lineup. I would rather add Vucevic than a rim protecting big with no offensive game, tbh.

I want a 3&D center. Don’t care about passing or post scoring. Vouch ain’t that.

[spurs10]

No intel, but my guess is that close to zero unless it's in a deal that nets them some kind of star (which I don't think they are even hunting for). I would not view their drafting of Yang Hansen as an indictment on how they feel about Clingan (who remember they just used a Top 10 pick on a year ago), at all. Thanks! Yeah it would probably be expensive and out of the question. Just wondering if they were even considering him in a deal. I don't have much 'intel' on any of these guys and a part from Yabusele with France I haven't seen them much. He's a bulldog, but doesn't address our biggest needs.

[DAF86]

The Blazers have 4 centers. I have lost track of Robert Williams. Is he still good, is he healthy, would it be worth it to make a move for him?

[cutewizard]

Fox might like to retire here also, there's that possibility, and take a discount in his final years,

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUYWQEdEjAU

[scott]

I wonder if anyone besides myself and mo7888 would be interested in this idea...

IND sends Jarace Walker to San Antonio in exchange for Malaki Branham and either SA26 (with ATL swap rights) or ATL27 (worst case scenario... I offer them a handful of seconds before it comes to this).

Rationale: IND is hard capped at the second apron, this would save them $1.7MM which frankly they may or may not care about. But they're working hard to get Turner extended and Walker will be extension eligible next summer. This saves IND a little bit of money now, but a lot of money as Walker's rookie deal nears expiry and he hasn't exactly proven much. This gives IND another pick as they take a pause while Hali is injured.

For the Spurs, the Atlanta picks are looking less juicy, and this gives them a low-commitment flier on a potential long term answer at PF.

A first might be a little rich here, but I'm projecting both of those picks to be in the early 20s.

[jesterbobman]

Prior to the Draft, I was thinking of something like 14 + Branham for Wallace (Jarace Walker) + 23. Conceptually similar.

I'd try Utah 2026 2nd round pick + Branham for Wallace - not a first, but I'd guess that's between 31 and 38 next year, for their 3rd PF. Good second draft bet.

[Ice009]

Who is Wallace? Carson Wallace?

[jesterbobman]

Who is Wallace? Carson Wallace?

I'm an idiot. Jarace Walker (as edited above).

[Ignazzz]

Signings in HOU made CAM Whitmore out of rotation maybe him?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

So Kings are on the verge of getting Shroeder in a S&T for Malik Monk. Kangz lol. In the process of facilitating this they’ve made the dick move to guarantee the final year of Ellis at only 2.3 million, thus preventing him from the ability to extend even if he’s traded. Please Spurs save that man, he’s such an awesome PoA defender who shoots 40+ from three.

By the way Detroit have been saved by another idiot (Beasely) and they’re about to replace him and Shroeder with Levert and Monk. They’re cooking even though it wasn’t their original plan.

[RC_Drunkford]

I wonder if anyone besides myself and mo7888 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=43104) would be interested in this idea...

IND sends Jarace Walker to San Antonio in exchange for Malaki Branham and either SA26 (with ATL swap rights) or ATL27 (worst case scenario... I offer them a handful of seconds before it comes to this).

Rationale: IND is hard capped at the second apron, this would save them $1.7MM which frankly they may or may not care about. But they're working hard to get Turner extended and Walker will be extension eligible next summer. This saves IND a little bit of money now, but a lot of money as Walker's rookie deal nears expiry and he hasn't exactly proven much. This gives IND another pick as they take a pause while Hali is injured.

For the Spurs, the Atlanta picks are looking less juicy, and this gives them a low-commitment flier on a potential long term answer at PF.

A first might be a little rich here, but I'm projecting both of those picks to be in the early 20s.

I'd take Jarace Walker ASAP. But it should be for second round picks and if that's the case, the Spurs could've done that one on draft night.

[Em-City]

I wonder if anyone besides myself and mo7888 would be interested in this idea...

IND sends Jarace Walker to San Antonio in exchange for Malaki Branham and either SA26 (with ATL swap rights) or ATL27 (worst case scenario... I offer them a handful of seconds before it comes to this).

Rationale: IND is hard capped at the second apron, this would save them $1.7MM which frankly they may or may not care about. But they're working hard to get Turner extended and Walker will be extension eligible next summer. This saves IND a little bit of money now, but a lot of money as Walker's rookie deal nears expiry and he hasn't exactly proven much. This gives IND another pick as they take a pause while Hali is injured.

For the Spurs, the Atlanta picks are looking less juicy, and this gives them a low-commitment flier on a potential long term answer at PF.

A first might be a little rich here, but I'm projecting both of those picks to be in the early 20s.

What's the appeal of Walker?

[CGD]

I wonder if anyone besides myself and mo7888 would be interested in this idea...

IND sends Jarace Walker to San Antonio in exchange for Malaki Branham and either SA26 (with ATL swap rights) or ATL27 (worst case scenario... I offer them a handful of seconds before it comes to this).

Rationale: IND is hard capped at the second apron, this would save them $1.7MM which frankly they may or may not care about. But they're working hard to get Turner extended and Walker will be extension eligible next summer. This saves IND a little bit of money now, but a lot of money as Walker's rookie deal nears expiry and he hasn't exactly proven much. This gives IND another pick as they take a pause while Hali is injured.

For the Spurs, the Atlanta picks are looking less juicy, and this gives them a low-commitment flier on a potential long term answer at PF.

A first might be a little rich here, but I'm projecting both of those picks to be in the early 20s.

I think he’d be a good fit.

In any event I want them to be aggressive with the Maliki and Wesley expirings.

[exstatic]

I wonder if anyone besides myself and mo7888 would be interested in this idea...

IND sends Jarace Walker to San Antonio in exchange for Malaki Branham and either SA26 (with ATL swap rights) or ATL27 (worst case scenario... I offer them a handful of seconds before it comes to this).

Rationale: IND is hard capped at the second apron, this would save them $1.7MM which frankly they may or may not care about. But they're working hard to get Turner extended and Walker will be extension eligible next summer. This saves IND a little bit of money now, but a lot of money as Walker's rookie deal nears expiry and he hasn't exactly proven much. This gives IND another pick as they take a pause while Hali is injured.

For the Spurs, the Atlanta picks are looking less juicy, and this gives them a low-commitment flier on a potential long term answer at PF.

A first might be a little rich here, but I'm projecting both of those picks to be in the early 20s.

You think ATL is a top 10 team in the league? Even with the conference imbalance?

[Guru of Nothing]

I wonder if anyone besides myself and mo7888 would be interested in this idea...

IND sends Jarace Walker to San Antonio in exchange for Malaki Branham and either SA26 (with ATL swap rights) or ATL27 (worst case scenario... I offer them a handful of seconds before it comes to this).

Rationale: IND is hard capped at the second apron, this would save them $1.7MM which frankly they may or may not care about. But they're working hard to get Turner extended and Walker will be extension eligible next summer. This saves IND a little bit of money now, but a lot of money as Walker's rookie deal nears expiry and he hasn't exactly proven much. This gives IND another pick as they take a pause while Hali is injured.

For the Spurs, the Atlanta picks are looking less juicy, and this gives them a low-commitment flier on a potential long term answer at PF.

A first might be a little rich here, but I'm projecting both of those picks to be in the early 20s.

I'd be a fan, but have concerns about playing time. I'd hate for him struggle to get on the floor. Still, if I were to deal a 1st, he'd be near the sweet spot of what I'd want and what I could expect to getin return (unless Indy loves him, which is poossible).

[Seventyniner]

You think ATL is a top 10 team in the league? Even with the conference imbalance?

Top 10 record is what matters. That took 49 wins last season, which is in the realm of possibility for the Hawks because they are in the much weaker conference.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

You think ATL is a top 10 team in the league? Even with the conference imbalance?

They may if everything goes right for them but they’ve basically replaced:

Capela, Nance -> Porzingis
Hunter -> NAW
Bogdanovic -> Kennard

Considering what shit they were in they’ve done alright but if there’s improvement it’ll be mostly due to health and internal improvement, not because they’ve signed amazing players.

[Guru of Nothing]

From a roster build perspective, and sticking to the chalky possibilities, PJ Washington seems like the most natural target for the Spurs at this point, and Mavs are realistically one of the best destination for Devin if he were to be moved in such a deal, but I'm not sure how to get to a deal with matching salaries (I'm averse to any bad contracts from going forward).

[mo7888]

What do you think k it would take to get Walker from Indy? Would Branham (expiring) and 3 or 4 2nd's get it done (since Indy values 2nd's more than we do anyway)?

[Ice009]

PJ Washington would be my number one target for trade choice.

Jarace Walker would also be a really good get. I've taken a look at him since posters here have been mentioning him the past few days, and I think he'd definitely be worth trying to get. He's young, looks like he can shoot and would fill a position of need.
I haven't seen him play much, but I'd consider giving up an asset to get him. What do you guys think it would cost?

Collins, I'm still a little bit iffy on him as I don't recall him ever being too good on defense (correct me if I am wrong, maybe he is OK at defending PFs at least?), but he could work on the Spurs strictly as a PF, and he hasn't shrunk in the playoffs. If they Spurs can get him cheap, they should consider it.

[mo7888]

PJ Washington would be my number 1 target for trade choice.

Collins, I'm still iffy on him, but he could work on the Spurs strictly as a PF, and he hasn't shrunk in the playoffs. If they Spurs can get him cheap, they should consider it.

I'd be all for either (or Lauri for that matter), but I don't think the fo is going to do a bigger money deal unless a Giannis becomes available. So I'm looking at smaller deal using Branham and/or Wesley to balance things out. That's why I again mention Jarace above, but I'm open to other similar moves. Are there any other names in that price range that wouldn't cost 1st's that you or anyone would suggest?

[Ice009]

I'd be all for either (or Lauri for that matter), but I don't think the fo is going to do a bigger money deal unless a Giannis becomes available. So I'm looking at smaller deal using Branham and/or Wesley to balance things out. That's why I again mention Jarace above, but I'm open to other similar moves. Are there any other names in that price range that wouldn't cost 1st's that you or anyone would suggest?

I just did an edit before reading your post and I am all in on you Jarace Walker idea. I took at look at Jarace the other day since some of you guys have been mentioning him and he looks like a great get.
I just wonder what it would take to get him.

[mo7888]

I just did an edit before reading your post and I am all in on you Jarace Walker idea. I took at look at Jarace the other day since some of you guys have been mentioning him and he looks like a great get.
I just wonder what it would take to get him.

I'm hoping it'll take 3 or 4 good 2nd's, but i'm just guessing.

[TimmyBuckets]

https://ibb.co/W4wV7Vq3Something like this maybe for Giannis. IDK how salaries exactly lineup and cap and all that.

https://postimg.cc/rKFtZZWbhttps://i.postimg.cc/Mnnfqc9m/temp-Imageu-Rm6-TP.avif (https://postimg.cc/Mnnfqc9m)

[RC_Drunkford]

not sure if Indiana wants to give up Walker, now that Turner went to the Bucks. They are not a luxury tax team in that case and need a big, even though Walker is a PF and not a C.

[exstatic]

They may if everything goes right for them but they’ve basically replaced:

Capela, Nance -> Porzingis
Hunter -> NAW
Bogdanovic -> Kennard

Considering what shit they were in they’ve done alright but if there’s improvement it’ll be mostly due to health and internal improvement, not because they’ve signed amazing players.

I’m not sure they can pull that rabbit out of their hat a second straight year. EVERYTHING broke their way lady year, and they played over their heads all year. Trae didn’t even miss much time.

[LeBowen]

I’m not sure they can pull that rabbit out of their hat a second straight year. EVERYTHING broke their way lady year, and they played over their heads all year. Trae didn’t even miss much time.

Jalen Johnson's health will be deciding factor, but he keeps getting injured.
At least they can play Okongwu together with Porzingis since both can shoot.

Their biggest flaw is playmaking.
Bogdanovic was their 6th man and secondary creator, NAW and Kennard have no playmaking skills.
It's going to be all on Trae and teams will just start forcing him to give the ball up.

Still, they'll obviously make the playoffs in the East.

[spurraider21]

https://ibb.co/W4wV7Vq3Something like this maybe for Giannis. IDK how salaries exactly lineup and cap and all that.

https://postimg.cc/rKFtZZWbhttps://i.postimg.cc/Mnnfqc9m/temp-Imageu-Rm6-TP.avif (https://postimg.cc/Mnnfqc9m)
https://media.tenor.com/khJthyXJxtcAAAAM/ken-jeong-community.gif

[mystargtr34]

https://media.tenor.com/khJthyXJxtcAAAAM/ken-jeong-community.gif

:lol

[mystargtr34]

At this point I’m calling Chicago and seeing if they’ll do Patrick Williams broken ass + filler + draft asset for Vassell.

Williams has 4 years left at about $18M per, Vassell 4 years at about $27M per. Both would be seen as negative contracts around the league imo especially after Williams had a down season. Would obviously need to look into the cause of that drop off at age 24.

You might be able to get Huerter’s expiring thrown in for shooting. The bulls may be dumb enough to take Keldon as well as SF depth.

Buzelis and Essengue are their future 3/4 combo even though I think they’re both more 4’s which is what Patrick Williams is.

Williams is very good shooter and defender but poor rebounder. Doesn’t do much else, low usage player.

You can still look for an upgrade at the starting 4 spot and move Williams to the bench which is a more suitable role for him anyway or include him in the trade.

[Ice009]

That sh$t's hilarious.

[DAF86]

Is there a chance of making something happen around a Sam Hauser and Keldon Johnson trade? What would Boston demand to accept such a trade?

[RC_Drunkford]

Is there a chance of making something happen around a Sam Hauser and Keldon Johnson trade? What would Boston demand to accept such a trade?

why would the Celtics want to add salary? They want to shed it, so you're better off offering them Branham or Wesley, but they would want assets attached to that one

[spurraider21]

Is there a chance of making something happen around a Sam Hauser and Keldon Johnson trade? What would Boston demand to accept such a trade?
wouldnt be a thing. theyre in salary shaving mode.

[DAF86]

Hauser for Branham and Wesley + 2 2nd rounders. Could it be?

[mystargtr34]

Hauser for Branham and Wesley + 2 2nd rounders. Could it be?

That’s $45M over 3 years they would save on Hausers contract not counting any luxury tax penalties.

I rekon they’d be listening.

[RC_Drunkford]

Hauser for Branham and Wesley + 2 2nd rounders. Could it be?

Branham or Wesley. You don't need both. That's how they get rid of 5 million. They would want a lot more than that I'd assume. Probably would have to return the swap and I think they would want Champagnie.

Hauser is not really the player we need. He's more of an SF with low rebounding numbers. We got plenty of those.

[scott]

At this point I’m calling Chicago and seeing if they’ll do Patrick Williams broken ass + filler + draft asset for Vassell.

Williams has 4 years left at about $18M per, Vassell 4 years at about $27M per. Both would be seen as negative contracts around the league imo especially after Williams had a down season. Would obviously need to look into the cause of that drop off at age 24.

You might be able to get Huerter’s expiring thrown in for shooting. The bulls may be dumb enough to take Keldon as well as SF depth.

Buzelis and Essengue are their future 3/4 combo even though I think they’re both more 4’s which is what Patrick Williams is.

Williams is very good shooter and defender but poor rebounder. Doesn’t do much else, low usage player.

You can still look for an upgrade at the starting 4 spot and move Williams to the bench which is a more suitable role for him anyway or include him in the trade.

In addition to Chicago, I think Sacramento and New Orleans have demonstrated they are teams we need to be calling. Of course, I'm sure the rest of the league has caught on to this as well. Certainly Atlanta has figured the Pelicans out as a sucker.

Just imagine how deadly Devin would look in New Orleans... he's a much better player and fit for them than TMIII... I hope Dumars doesn't find out...

[mystargtr34]

In addition to Chicago, I think Sacramento and New Orleans have demonstrated they are teams we need to be calling. Of course, I'm sure the rest of the league has caught on to this as well. Certainly Atlanta has figured the Pelicans out as a sucker.

Just imagine how deadly Devin would look in New Orleans... he's a much better player and fit for them than TMIII... I hope Dumars doesn't find out...

Yeah Sacramento, New Orleans are easily the top 2 teams B Wright should have on speed dial. Chicago would come in 3rd. Can’t think of anyone else right now.

[mudyez]

Not saying that I would, but would you do Vassell for Nikola Vučević straight up? Rotation wise it would make sense but with Vuc only having 1 year left on his contract, it also feels like a Vassell sal dumb. In my book, we might get some draft capital out of it.

[scott]

Yeah Sacramento, New Orleans are easily the top 2 teams B Wright should have on speed dial. Chicago would come in 3rd. Can’t think of anyone else right now.

I forgot which Podcast it was, either Vecenie or Lowe, but one of them basically said "just make trades with these guys. Doesn't even matter what the trade is. Just trade with them, you'll come out ahead every time"

Kings subreddit is my favorite, and the Pels aren't that far behind either honestly... they are hyper aware of how terrible their FOs are and have embraced the darkness.

[DAF86]

Branham or Wesley. You don't need both. That's how they get rid of 5 million. They would want a lot more than that I'd assume. Probably would have to return the swap and I think they would want Champagnie.

Hauser is not really the player we need. He's more of an SF with low rebounding numbers. We got plenty of those.

You know what we don't have many of? 40%+ 3pt shooters.

[DPG21920]

Wonder if NO would be willing to trade Herb Jones? Herb + Kelly Olynk for Devin + a first round pick+ 2nds? That a material enough upgrade to give up a pick for?

[scott]

Wonder if NO would be willing to trade Herb Jones? Herb + Kelly Olynk for Devin + a first round pick+ 2nds? That a material enough upgrade to give up a pick for?

Olynk got traded in the CJ/Poole deal, FYI. Otherwise I always felt he'd be a great pick up for us.

[RC_Drunkford]

You know what we don't have many of? 40%+ 3pt shooters.

which is why we should trade for John Collins



I forgot which Podcast it was, either Vecenie or Lowe, but one of them basically said "just make trades with these guys. Doesn't even matter what the trade is. Just trade with them, you'll come out ahead every time"

Kings subreddit is my favorite, and the Pels aren't that far behind either honestly... they are hyper aware of how terrible their FOs are and have embraced the darkness.

who's the new Raptors GM? Their roster is atrocious. Trading a first round pick for Brandom Ingram to extend him for 40 million per year?

[spurraider21]

Wonder if NO would be willing to trade Herb Jones? Herb + Kelly Olynk for Devin + a first round pick+ 2nds? That a material enough upgrade to give up a pick for?
i wouldnt do that

[mystargtr34]

which is why we should trade for John Collins




who's the new Raptors GM? Their roster is atrocious. Trading a first round pick for Brandom Ingram to extend him for 40 million per year?

Bobby Webster. He’s inheriting Ujiri’s shitshow. Bobby’s post draft press conference was weird he looked like a nervous kid giving a presentation.

[scott]

who's the new Raptors GM? Their roster is atrocious. Trading a first round pick for Brandom Ingram to extend him for 40 million per year?

Bobby Webster is the Raptors GM, and got an extension when they fired Masai. Maybe Webster wasn't the architect of those moves.

[DPG21920]

Olynk got traded in the CJ/Poole deal, FYI. Otherwise I always felt he'd be a great pick up for us.

Damn I missed that - Keldon + a first + 2nds for Herb works

[RC_Drunkford]

Bobby Webster. He’s inheriting Ujiri’s shitshow. Bobby’s post draft press conference was weird he looked like a nervous kid giving a presentation.


Bobby Webster is the Raptors GM, and got an extension when they fired Masai. Maybe Webster wasn't the architect of those moves.

thanks. The crazy thing is they are in the luxury tax with that roster. Still able to go under it by letting 2 minimum guys go, but that's a high price for being mediocre. Spurs are probably still interested in Barrett if they can get him for free.

[TimmyBuckets]

https://media.tenor.com/khJthyXJxtcAAAAM/ken-jeong-community.gif

:lol

[TimmyBuckets]

Harper's not on the table for Giannis. They literally gave him Kawhi's number. Vasell, Keldon, Brahnam/Westley, 4 picks.

[spurs10]

Damn I missed that - Keldon + a first + 2nds for Herb works It would be great. Wonder if the FO is still looking at this and likeminded moves. We look to be one spot away from where we should be. Kornet was a great add, what about a shooter that could even start perhaps?

[mystargtr34]

Some good cap info here. Including Kornet estimated year 1 salary, unlikely bonuses in Vassell and Keldon contracts. Luxury tax numbers etc.

https://www.capsheets.com/san-antonio-spurs-cap-sheet/

[spurraider21]

Some good cap info here. Including Kornet estimated year 1 salary, unlikely bonuses in Vassell and Keldon contracts. Luxury tax numbers etc.

https://www.capsheets.com/san-antonio-spurs-cap-sheet/
spotrac has always been my go-to for this stuff

[Degoat]

Just brain storming here, was listening to the game theory podcast and they were discussing how the bucks desperately need PGs. Kinda would like to see Blake Wesley get a chance tbh

[Guru of Nothing]

Anybody have thoughts on what will happen with Kuminga? Saw something (wholly unsubstantiated) about a possible sign-and-trade with the Kings. Regardless, if Kuminga goes out anywhere on a sign and trade, I wonder if KJ starts to look a little sexy to GS? This is where BWright should shine, right?

[DAF86]

which is why we should trade for John Collins

The only way Utah would consider a Collins trade is if we give them Barnes. There's no point in trading a 40% 3pt shooter, for another.

In my trade proposal we would be adding a 40% 3pt shooter for a non-rotation guy.

Also, Collins could pretty easily regress from the 3pt line, tbh. He's not a bonafide 3 pt shooter.

[CGD]

Hauser for Malaki + all you can eat SRPs needs to happen. Boston still trying to get under the second apron.

[TD 21]

With the Nets not being a win now team, the Spurs could probably get away with offering Barnes and Johnson for Porter Jr., as they'd be saving them $23.3M for 26-'27, while helping increase their odds at a top pick.



Just brain storming here, was listening to the game theory podcast and they were discussing how the bucks desperately need PGs. Kinda would like to see Blake Wesley get a chance tbh

The Bucks need someone to platoon with Porter Jr. and since Paul (the opportunity to start/close and play with an MVP caliber player in a weak conference might give him pause) and Westbrook supposedly want to stay in or close to California, Brogdon is probably the favorite.


Hauser for Malaki + all you can eat SRPs needs to happen. Boston still trying to get under the second apron.

Hauser would knock Johnson (already on shaky ground) and Champagnie out of the rotation without addressing the need for a true four, a scenario I doubt the Spurs would be amendable to.

[RC_Drunkford]

The only way Utah would consider a Collins trade is if we give them Barnes. There's no point in trading a 40% 3pt shooter, for another.

In my trade proposal we would be adding a 40% 3pt shooter for a non-rotation guy.

Also, Collins could pretty easily regress from the 3pt line, tbh. He's not a bonafide 3 pt shooter.


Collins shot 40/40/36.4/29.2/37.1/40 from 3. The 29.2 was when he played through the season with an injured shooting hand. He's been a 3-point shooter ever since he came into the league.

You somehow seem to think this is the "Free Sam Hauser Giveaway". Like the only offer the Celtics would get for that contract is Malaki Branham and second round picks.

[Mr. Body]

The only way Utah would consider a Collins trade is if we give them Barnes. There's no point in trading a 40% 3pt shooter, for another.

In my trade proposal we would be adding a 40% 3pt shooter for a non-rotation guy.

Also, Collins could pretty easily regress from the 3pt line, tbh. He's not a bonafide 3 pt shooter.

I'm pretty sure Utah would accept anything for Collins at this point. There doesn't seem to be a market.

[LeBowen]

I'm pretty sure Utah would accept anything for Collins at this point. There doesn't seem to be a market.

It's really hard to find a playoff team with 20+ million in expiring contracts they'd be willing to trade for Collins.

Since Bucks have already committed for being complete garbage many years post-Giannis, they might aswell double down and trade an unprotected FRP for Collins to get rid of Kuzma's contract.

[spurraider21]

It's really hard to find a playoff team with 20+ million in expiring contracts they'd be willing to trade for Collins.

Since Bucks have already committed for being complete garbage many years post-Giannis, they might aswell double down and trade an unprotected FRP for Collins to get rid of Kuzma's contract.
bucks already re-signed bobby portis and just spent a lot of money on Myles Turner, so i dont see it. kuzma has a worse contract than keldon right now

[DAF86]

I'm pretty sure Utah would accept anything for Collins at this point. There doesn't seem to be a market.

I would love to do it for Keldon, but I doubt the Jazz take on that contract.

[DAF86]

Collins shot 40/40/36.4/29.2/37.1/40 from 3. The 29.2 was when he played through the season with an injured shooting hand. He's been a 3-point shooter ever since he came into the league.

You somehow seem to think this is the "Free Sam Hauser Giveaway". Like the only offer the Celtics would get for that contract is Malaki Branham and second round picks.

What? Are we talking about the same Collins? :lol

John Collins is a 36 % career 3pt shooter. He shot 0.6 threes per game when he came into the league, GTFOH with "he's been a shooter ever since he came to the league". :lol

Heck, even now, 3.7 attempts per game is on the lower side of things. He's a guy that has added the 3pt shot with time, he's not a natural 3 pt shooter.

[spurraider21]

I would love to do it for Keldon, but I doubt the Jazz take on that contract.
true. jazz would rather just ride out collins' expiring deal and buy him out if they cant deal him at the deadline.

its why i think its worth tossing some second rounders their way in exchange for them taking on keldon. something like keldon + branham/wesley works, saves jazz some cash for the year, and then they get some picks for holding onto keldon who they can later try to trade as an expiring deal

[spurraider21]

What? Are we talking about the same Collins? :lol

John Collins is a 36 % career 3pt shooter. He shot 0.6 threes per game when he came into the league, GTFOH with "he's been a shooter ever since he came to the league". :lol

Heck, even now, 3.7 attempts per game is on the lower side of things. He's a guy that has added the 3pt shot with time, he's not a natural 3 pt shooter.
i mean he cited his numbers for the last 6 seasons... thats a better indicator anyway than whatever he did in years 1-2. collins attempted 1 three pointer in his 2 year college career and barely attempted 3's as a rookie, but has since become a good NBA shooter on reasonable volume (~3.5 attempts per game). laser focusing on his shooting is kinda misguided, as shooting isn't really his best attribute. its just something he's done good enough to prevent him from being ignored at the 3pt line the way sochan is

[DAF86]

true. jazz would rather just ride out collins' expiring deal and buy him out if they cant deal him at the deadline.

its why i think its worth tossing some second rounders their way in exchange for them taking on keldon. something like keldon + branham/wesley works, saves jazz some cash for the year, and then they get some picks for holding onto keldon who they can later try to trade as an expiring deal

That would make for such a more cohesive rotation.

Fox-----------------Harper
Castle------------Champagnie
Vassell----------Sochan
Collins-----------Barnes
Wemby----------Kornet

[spurraider21]

That would make for such a more cohesive rotation.

Fox-----------------Harper
Castle------------Champagnie
Vassell----------Sochan
Collins-----------Barnes
Wemby----------Kornet
mhm. ive been banging the collins drum for a while now with a similar rotation in mind (i would basically swap sochan/barnes but thats not important really)

even if collins doesnt pan out well, or if we have no intention of re-signing him, theres still the benefit of him expiring in a year as oppposed to being locked into another year of keldon. so even in the bad case scenario where we gave some seconds for him, we get cap relief a year early

sadly there doesnt seem to be any collins/spurs traction at all. there was one tweet from weinbach about a week ago about spurs being among the teams to monitor, but have seen absolutely nothing other than that, and weinbach is not exactly one of the heavy hitters. could just be the jazz made it explicitly clear upon exploratory talks that they have 0 interest in taking on keldon for seconds, which is fair.

[mystargtr34]

I’d def do a Collins deal for Keldon + Branham + Jazz ‘26 SRP returned which is basically a late FRP. Add another SRP if you have to for eating the extra year on the Keldon contract.

Keldon would be a nice tank commander for them he could backup Mark and Bailey and average 15 a game and give up 20.

I like the 10 man rotation above, to me Sochan is more of a 3 in the mould of Jaden Mcdaniels and Barnes is a 4 at this stage of his career. If Sochan shows progress as a shooter move him into the SL for Vassell and you have a top 10 defense and rebounding team with Kornet backing up Wemby.

[CGD]

I’d def do a Keldon + Branham + Jazz 26 SRP returned which is basically a late FRP. Add another SRP if you have to for eating the extra year on the Keldon contract.

Keldon would be a nice tank commander for them he could backup Mark and Bailey and average 15 a game and give up 20 a game.

Why are you giving up ANY value for a Collins? He’s valued as salary ballast around the league. Utah can’t move him, and I’m sure teams are expecting he’ll either be bought out or used as salary filler.

[mystargtr34]

Why are you giving up ANY value for a Collins? He’s valued as salary ballast around the league. Utah can’t move him, and I’m sure teams are expecting he’ll either be bought out or used as salary filler.

Extra 1 year and $17M on the Keldon contract.

Of course you try do it without the picks first but Utah isn’t just going to accept an extra $17M hit for nothing when they can just let Collins walk a year from now.

[scott]

World Cup is next summer. Holt Jr is amassing SRPs to fund the most epic summer imaginable.

[CGD]

Extra 1 year and $17M on the Keldon contract.

Of course you try do it without the picks first but Utah isn’t just going to accept an extra $17M hit for nothing when they can just let Collins walk a year from now.

If you think John Collins is the answer get him when Utah buys him out in February. If you think this is some cost saving move, cool, but what’s the goal in 2026?

Keldon’s peak value will be by this trade deadline. If he performs well, some playoff team will pay value for him as a deep/situational piece for a deep run. We see this every year. If he underperforms, then he’s functioning an expiring contract at that point with a descending deal. That also has value in this cost cutting environment.

I get that people are eager to move on from Keldon, but just be patient.

[DAF86]

i mean he cited his numbers for the last 6 seasons... thats a better indicator anyway than whatever he did in years 1-2. collins attempted 1 three pointer in his 2 year college career and barely attempted 3's as a rookie, but has since become a good NBA shooter on reasonable volume (~3.5 attempts per game). laser focusing on his shooting is kinda misguided, as shooting isn't really his best attribute. its just something he's done good enough to prevent him from being ignored at the 3pt line the way sochan is

He literally said "he's been a 3pt shooter since he got to the league". :lol

[spurraider21]

He literally said "he's been a shooter since he got to the league". :lol
True but i think it’s a distinction without a difference for the point he’s trying to make that he’s an established good shooter

[DAF86]

True but i think it’s a distinction without a difference for the point he’s trying to make that he’s an established good shooter

Not in the context we were talking. I was proposing a Hauser trade. He then said we don't need Hauser, we need Collins. To which I replied that I would love to have both, but trading Collins for Barnes does nothing to improve the 3pt shooting situation.

That's also where I compared Collins to Hauser, pointing out that they aren't in the same tier as shooters. Hauser is an outright sniper that can shoot all kinds of 3s. Collins is an improved shooter but that can only shoot spot ups and has a relative low volume for today's standards. It wouldn't shock me to see him shoot 35% from 3 next season, tbh. He isn't a natural shooter that can guarantee you a high floor in 3pt %.

[spurraider21]

Not in the context we were talking. I was proposing a Hauser trade. He then said we don't need Hauser, we need Collins. To which I replied that I would love to have both, but trading Collins for Barnes does nothing to improve the 3pt shooting situation.

That's also where I compared Collins to Hauser, pointing out that they aren't in the same tier as shooters. Hauser is an outright sniper that can shoot all kinds of 3s. Collins is an improved shooter but that can only shoot spot ups and has a relative low volume for today's standards. It wouldn't shock me to see him shoot 35% from 3 next season, tbh. He isn't a natural shooter that can guarantee you a high floor in 3pt %.
Yeah Hauser is just a different tier of shooter than Collins. Collins is a good shooter for a 4 but Hauser is a legit specialist

[spurraider21]

If you think John Collins is the answer get him when Utah buys him out in February. If you think this is some cost saving move, cool, but what’s the goal in 2026?

Keldon’s peak value will be by this trade deadline. If he performs well, some playoff team will pay value for him as a deep/situational piece for a deep run. We see this every year. If he underperforms, then he’s functioning an expiring contract at that point with a descending deal. That also has value in this cost cutting environment.

I get that people are eager to move on from Keldon, but just be patient.
a) there’s no guarantee he isn’t traded elsewhere (though looking less likely by the day)
b) there’s no guarantee he’s gets bought out
c) there’s no guarantee he signs here if bought out
d) even if he isn’t traded, gets bought out, and signs here, you are integrating a new rotation player on the fly in the second half of the season
e) you miss out on having him for half the season when he can help the team

[RC_Drunkford]

What? Are we talking about the same Collins? :lol

John Collins is a 36 % career 3pt shooter. He shot 0.6 threes per game when he came into the league, GTFOH with "he's been a shooter ever since he came to the league". :lol

Heck, even now, 3.7 attempts per game is on the lower side of things. He's a guy that has added the 3pt shot with time, he's not a natural 3 pt shooter.

Says the guy who keeps glazing Vucevic since we signed LaMarcus Aldridge. Yeah right, point out his rookie season and ignore all the other ones you dumb fuck. He's been shooting 3s on decent volume since his second year in the league, but you already know that.

:lol @ added a 3-point shot with time. Even in his first year he shot 35% just on low attempts.

[venitian navigator]

I don't know much about the second apron Kex. Phoenix possible trade partnership) and sign and trade rules. For example is possible for a team like phoenix aggregate one player with (not a player but) a draft pick? And if the answer is yes, is possible also if said pick is the one of a player already picked but still not signed (ex x phoenix Maluach or Fleming)? Regarding the sign and trade rules, it's possible to sign and trade players with just one year contract now expired (ex for us CP3)?

[CGD]

a) there’s no guarantee he isn’t traded elsewhere (though looking less likely by the day)
b) there’s no guarantee he’s gets bought out
c) there’s no guarantee he signs here if bought out
d) even if he isn’t traded, gets bought out, and signs here, you are integrating a new rotation player on the fly in the second half of the season
e) you miss out on having him for half the season when he can help the team

Keldon is objectively better than Collins at this point of their careers.

If you told me there was a plan for the $17M savings in 2026 aside from just having “flexibility” then cool. Go for it. Otherwise it’s really dumb asset management.

[Joseph Kony]

Keldon is objectively better than Collins at this point of their careers.

If you told me there was a plan for the $17M savings in 2026 aside from just having “flexibility” then cool. Go for it. Otherwise it’s really dumb asset management.

do you know what the word "objective" means?

Collins in 2025 (30mpg):

19ppg on 53%/39%/84% .628 TS%
8.2rpg
2.0apg
1.0spg
1.0bpg
19.0 PER
0.9 VORP
1.0 BPM



Keldon in 2025 (24mpg):

12.7ppg on 48%/32%/77% .572 TS%
4.8rpg
1.6apg
0.6spg
0.3bpg
15.9 PER
0.2 VORP
-1.6 BPM


The numbers suggest that Collins is objectively better than Keldon by a significant margin. Neither of these guys are world beaters but it's easy to see who the better player is (and always has been)

[DAF86]

Says the guy who keeps glazing Vucevic since we signed LaMarcus Aldridge.

You know you lost the argument when you have to resort to making stuff up, tbh. :lol


Yeah right, point out his rookie season and ignore all the other ones you dumb fuck. He's been shooting 3s on decent volume since his second year in the league, but you already know that.

:lol @ added a 3-point shot with time. Even in his first year he shot 35% just on low attempts.

I pointed out his rookie season because you literally said "he's been a 3pt shooter since he got to the league". :lol

You know what's another indication that you lost the argument? Starting with the personal insults, tbh.

[DAF86]

Keldon is objectively better than Collins at this point of their careers.

I'm convinced the Keldon apologists live in an alternate reality. One where Keldon actually does productive stuff, instead of being a complete cancer at both sides of the ball, tbh.

My brothers, yall need to realize that Keldon isn't the player you think he is. He's actually pretty bad, and a detriment for the overall production of the team.

[LeBowen]

I'm convinced the Keldon apologists live in an alternate reality. One where Keldon actually does productive stuff, instead of being a complete cancer at both sides of the ball, tbh.

Keldon's only positive attribute in this past season was his relentless attacking on mismatches when he got matched up with slow PFs.
But even then, those drives are too random to be relied on.

With the additions of Fox, Harper and Castle getting a bigger role, we don't want Keldon to have the ball.

[spurraider21]

Keldon is objectively better than Collins at this point of their careers.

If you told me there was a plan for the $17M savings in 2026 aside from just having “flexibility” then cool. Go for it. Otherwise it’s really dumb asset management.
:lol objectively better… no

:lol describing keldon as somebody who will have appeal at the deadline as a “functioning expiring contract” even though he is objectively not expiring and owed 17.5 mil fully guaranteed in 26-27 (same as his salary this season, not declining, for what it’s worth)

the plan would be to not be saddled with and committed to an overpaid player who is already on his way out of the rotation. Even as an expiring a year from now, unless Keldon has some incredible year in his projected decreased role, he’s going to cost some capital to offload

If you just want to say a keldon for Collins dead is bad because you think keldon is better, just say that. But not objective, and keldon is not a functioning expiring contract :lol

[TekXX]

Is it fair to say that no one in the league wants members of our tank squad?

[scott]

Keldon is objectively better than Collins at this point of their careers.



Ohno. Someone used objectively and Collins in the same sentence again. Different Collins… same mistake.

[CGD]

do you know what the word "objective" means?

Collins in 2025 (30mpg):

19ppg on 53%/39%/84% .628 TS%
8.2rpg
2.0apg
1.0spg
1.0bpg
19.0 PER
0.9 VORP
1.0 BPM



Keldon in 2025 (24mpg):

12.7ppg on 48%/32%/77% .572 TS%
4.8rpg
1.6apg
0.6spg
0.3bpg
15.9 PER
0.2 VORP
-1.6 BPM


The numbers suggest that Collins is objectively better than Keldon by a significant margin. Neither of these guys are world beaters but it's easy to see who the better player is (and always has been)

Got it, so Collins gets credit for being an empty calories stat stuffer on a flagrantly tanking team (to the point of fines) that allows him to plays 6mpg more a game and start. Why don’t we sign D’Angelo Russell and Jordan Clarkson while we’re at it. They have neat metrics too!

[CGD]

I'm convinced the Keldon apologists live in an alternate reality. One where Keldon actually does productive stuff, instead of being a complete cancer at both sides of the ball, tbh.

My brothers, yall need to realize that Keldon isn't the player you think he is. He's actually pretty bad, and a detriment for the overall production of the team.

We’re comparing him to… John Collins. Our savior apparently of this forum is to be believed.

Don’t be dishonest. No one is saying Keldon is some worldbeater. Some of yall are so blinded for your dislike of the dude that you’d suggest trading Keldon for a bag of skittles. My point is there are better opportunities to move him later in the year than for John freaking Collins, lol.

[CGD]

:lol objectively better… no

:lol describing keldon as somebody who will have appeal at the deadline as a “functioning expiring contract” even though he is objectively not expiring and owed 17.5 mil fully guaranteed in 26-27 (same as his salary this season, not declining, for what it’s worth)

the plan would be to not be saddled with and committed to an overpaid player who is already on his way out of the rotation. Even as an expiring a year from now, unless Keldon has some incredible year in his projected decreased role, he’s going to cost some capital to offload

If you just want to say a keldon for Collins dead is bad because you think keldon is better, just say that. But not objective, and keldon is not a functioning expiring contract :lol

Wut?

[kobyz]

Keldon Johnson and protected pick for Quinten Grimes

[CGD]

Data can be hilarious absent context.

Reminds me when I worked in the foreign service for a brief stint under baby Bush. They were trying really hard to make inroads with some African countries in ag, and had a popular talking point at the time along the lines of “Africa has unlocked talent. Madagascar had the 3rd fastest growing GDP in the world!”

Finally, one intrepid reported states: “But it’s Madagascar….”

[spurraider21]

Wut?
I can only explain it for you, i can’t understand it for you

[CGD]

I can only explain it for you, i can’t understand it for you

No, I get it. I just don’t understand why you’re so concerned in making sure a billionaire NBA owner gets to pay less for a roster next year. So he can rent cap space for a few seconds that he’ll flip for cash?

Bottomline: tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat, or some such nonsense.

[spurraider21]

No, I get it. I just don’t understand why you’re so concerned in making sure a billionaire NBA owner gets to pay less for a roster next year. So he can rent cap space for a few seconds that he’ll flip for cash?

Bottomline: tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat, or some such nonsense.
I have been a broken record about not caring about the owners pockets. I care to the extent the cap impacts the ability to make transactions due to league rules.

not being on the hook for keldon making 17.5 mil in 26-27 will help the squad. Don’t give a crap about Holt

[Ariel]

the plan would be to not be saddled with and committed to an overpaid player who is already on his way out of the rotation. Even as an expiring a year from now, unless Keldon has some incredible year in his projected decreased role, he’s going to cost some capital to offload
Dumping him into cap space, yes. But including him as salary filler in a trade, no. By the trade deadline he'd have roughly the same contract Zach Collins had when he was sent to Chicago, I'm sure somebody will take him. I'm more concerned about Vassell though.

[spurraider21]

Dumping him into cap space, yes. But including him as salary filler in a trade, no. By the trade deadline he'd have roughly the same contract Zach Collins had when he was sent to Chicago, I'm sure somebody will take him. I'm more concerned about Vassell though.
I have no idea what this means. Why would this matter from the spurs perspective what the receiving teams situation is?

[RC_Drunkford]

You know you lost the argument when you have to resort to making stuff up, tbh. :lol



I pointed out his rookie season because you literally said "he's been a 3pt shooter since he got to the league". :lol

You know what's another indication that you lost the argument? Starting with the personal insults, tbh.

ain't none of that made up, you wanted Vucevic back then when he was on the Magic, because "he's a better passer than LaMarcus". Got dementia already? :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

Keldon is objectively better than Collins at this point of their careers.

If you told me there was a plan for the $17M savings in 2026 aside from just having “flexibility” then cool. Go for it. Otherwise it’s really dumb asset management.

tell us again how Keldon is "objectively" better:

https://i.ibb.co/Ng5Y0459/Keldon-vs-Collins.jpg

[Ariel]

I have no idea what this means. Why would this matter from the spurs perspective what the receiving teams situation is?
It means it's not as bad of a contract as he's being made out to be, he's a negative if the Spurs were trying to dump his contract into somebody else's cap space (say, Brooklyn's), but if they wait until the trade deadline and a trade opportunity comes along, I think there's a good chance he's used as a trade filler without much trouble like Zach Collins was.

[Joseph Kony]

Got it, so Collins gets credit for being an empty calories stat stuffer on a flagrantly tanking team (to the point of fines) that allows him to plays 6mpg more a game and start. Why don’t we sign D’Angelo Russell and Jordan Clarkson while we’re at it. They have neat metrics too!
:lol getting butthurt because you dont know what objective means and now trying to pull the :cry stats need context :cry line when the stats objectively disprove your retarded point

[spurraider21]

It means it's not as bad of a contract as he's being made out to be, he's a negative if the Spurs were trying to dump his contract into somebody else's cap space (say, Brooklyn's), but if they wait until the trade deadline and a trade opportunity comes along, I think there's a good chance he's used as a trade filler without much trouble like Zach Collins was.
Considering that my suggestion was to make him part of a trade for John Collins, I’m not sure why This trading into Space scenario is being brought up

[poopbox]

Got it, so Collins gets credit for being an empty calories stat stuffer on a flagrantly tanking team (to the point of fines) that allows him to plays 6mpg more a game and start. Why don’t we sign D’Angelo Russell and Jordan Clarkson while we’re at it. They have neat metrics too!

Wait, what has Keldon been? I would say he has been an "empty calories stat stuffer on a flagrantly tanking team" most of his nba career.:lol

[DAF86]

ain't none of that made up, you wanted Vucevic back then when he was on the Magic, because "he's a better passer than LaMarcus". Got dementia already? :lol

Says the guy that thought Collins was a 3pt shooter since he got to the league. :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

Says the guy that thought Collins was a 3pt shooter since he got to the league. :lol

Plenty of proof provided, even other posters said it. It's not my problem that you are slow.

[CGD]

:lol getting butthurt because you dont know what objective means and now trying to pull the :cry stats need context :cry line when the stats objectively disprove your retarded point

I mean, it is objectively true that Madagascar once had the 3rd fastest growing GDP in the world. It’s still Madagascar tho…

[CGD]

Wait, what has Keldon been? I would say he has been an "empty calories stat stuffer on a flagrantly tanking team" most of his nba career.:lol

We were flagrantly tanking last year?

[poopbox]

We were flagrantly tanking last year?

We signed Biyambo as our starting center and then played Jeremy as our backup :rollin

The point guard we paid to start last year still hasn't signed to a team yet :rollin

[scott]

We were flagrantly tanking last year?

We were not... and Keldon responded by posting the lowest PPG, lowest 3P%, lowest RPG, and lowest APG since his rookie year while his usage stayed about the same other than the year he averaged 22ppg, which is coincidently the year he most closely fit the definition of "an empty calorie stat stuffer on a flagrantly tanking team"

Is this the kind of context you were looking for?

[CGD]

We were not... and Keldon responded by posting the lowest PPG, lowest 3P%, lowest RPG, and lowest APG since his rookie year while his usage stayed about the same other than the year he averaged 22ppg, which is coincidently the year he most closely fit the definition of "an empty calorie stat stuffer on a flagrantly tanking team"

Is this the kind of context you were looking for?

To be clear I’m not here to defend Keldon’s production, even as his role has continued to evolve over time.

Some of the other takes in here are just blatant player haterade though, and some of the galaxy brain justifications are silly, e.g., John Collins is some hidden in plain sight megastar the entire league is missing on bc he had a good true shooting percentage on a shit team that one time, or getting “Keldon off the books” bc it will save the team money, etc.

Anyway, my original point is that there will be better uses for his deal by the deadline as he gets closer to being an expiring. Let’s not forget that if DJ doesn’t get injured, Keldon is a key part of “Plan A” for landing Fox to SA.

[objective]

Keldon isn't better than Collins, me speaking

There are other possible reasons the Spurs may not want him. One being his history as a juicer, Spurs might not want him around Wemby with that kind of past.

[Chinook]

Keldon is not a must-move, and STers have sort of memed themselves into a tizzy about him being on the team. The biggest question about Johnson really isn't his ability but his lack of consistency. He shot 38 percent from three between January and March. He shot 25 percent for the rest of the year. A lot of his flaws could be overlooked -- and the strengths he does have could be much more appreciated -- if he were that 38-percent guy all the time. I don't know how much of the issue is coaching versus individual discipline, but similar issues have affected a number of the team's players. They won't get close to their ceiling if Castle's and Harper's shooting shows the same stagnation or regression than Johnson has. Your best players have to be able to shoot threes. You can't outsource that.

[rankingtear]

people don't really get the context of Jollins stat line, he is essentially a 5 who shoots threes, the high fg% is due to rim runs and the 3pt% is the wide open shots generated by pops and being guarded by harden and trae young. the problem with this is you want your C ( the french guy ) doing this shit so they are not on the dunker spot or masquerading as a corner 3 wing.

[RC_Drunkford]

people don't really get the context of Jollins stat line, he is essentially a 5 who shoots threes, the high fg% is due to rim runs and the 3pt% is the wide open shots generated by pops and being guarded by harden and trae young. the problem with this is you want your C ( the french guy ) doing this shit so they are not on the dunker spot or masquerading as a corner 3 wing.

He played the 4 exclusively last season. He's not a 5 nor has he ever been that.

[rankingtear]

He played the 4 exclusively last season. He's not a 5 nor has he ever been that.

He is a 5 on offense, much has been discussed about this before, there is an article on his early years about him wanting to be the 5 man and be the main pick and roll/pop big. the main problem is he has neither rim protection nor post defense so their always need to pair him with a rim protector. watch his clip with uta kessler is in the dunker while collins is the main roller or popper. even if you think you are smarter than every gm in the league who does not want to trade for him, you gotta acknowledge that there might be something wrong beyond his 50/40 stat line, it could be that he is a 5 on offense and no position on defense.

[spurraider21]

To be clear I’m not here to defend Keldon’s production, even as his role has continued to evolve over time.

Some of the other takes in here are just blatant player haterade though, and some of the galaxy brain justifications are silly, e.g., John Collins is some hidden in plain sight megastar the entire league is missing on bc he had a good true shooting percentage on a shit team that one time, or getting “Keldon off the books” bc it will save the team money, etc.

Anyway, my original point is that there will be better uses for his deal by the deadline as he gets closer to being an expiring. Let’s not forget that if DJ doesn’t get injured, Keldon is a key part of “Plan A” for landing Fox to SA.
First bolded line amounts to nothing but unnecessary theatrics

second bolded line is at this point an intentional misrepresentation because i specifically addressed this point

[spurraider21]

people don't really get the context of Jollins stat line, he is essentially a 5 who shoots threes, the high fg% is due to rim runs and the 3pt% is the wide open shots generated by pops and being guarded by harden and trae young. the problem with this is you want your C ( the french guy ) doing this shit so they are not on the dunker spot or masquerading as a corner 3 wing.
The role you’ve described is not dissimilar from what we saw Sochan doing last year, though. Collins just does it a lot better. He also made 55% of his shots from 3-10 feet while Sochan was at 36% from that same range.

Collins isn’t some ideal player but he could be had for not much and even if he doesn’t work out, is expiring

[rankingtear]

The role you’ve described is not dissimilar from what we saw Sochan doing last year, though. Collins just does it a lot better. He also made 55% of his shots from 3-10 feet while Sochan was at 36% from that same range.

Collins isn’t some ideal player but he could be had for not much and even if he doesn’t work out, is expiring

Exactly atleast were getting somewhere and some people getting the idea of Collins being a 5 despite listed as a 4. Just like Sochan last year. See people here can analyze basketball instead of throwing basketball reference numbers.

I ask you then where is Wemby during this possesion with Sochan as a rim runner, isn't he in the corner 3 most of the time. the point is Jollins is cutting the centers balls off in order to maximize his value not complementing it like everybody thinks.

I know it is not listed in basketball reference or craftedNBA so it might not be true.

[scott]

To be clear I’m not here to defend Keldon’s production, even as his role has continued to evolve over time.

Some of the other takes in here are just blatant player haterade though, and some of the galaxy brain justifications are silly, e.g., John Collins is some hidden in plain sight megastar the entire league is missing on bc he had a good true shooting percentage on a shit team that one time, or getting “Keldon off the books” bc it will save the team money, etc.

Anyway, my original point is that there will be better uses for his deal by the deadline as he gets closer to being an expiring. Let’s not forget that if DJ doesn’t get injured, Keldon is a key part of “Plan A” for landing Fox to SA.

I don't think Collins is worth worrying about too much, and I certainly agree that there might be better uses for Keldon... I'm just commenting on your defense of the statement "Keldon is objectively better than Collins"

[DAF86]

Plenty of proof provided, even other posters said it. It's not my problem that you are slow.

What proof? His 0.6 shots taken per game? How can you be a 3pt shooter, when you don't even take 3's? That's literally the complete opposite description. :lol

[Ice009]

Was Collins pinged for using steroids? If so, what's the full story on that? Was it for healing and injury type of thing?

[RC_Drunkford]

He is a 5 on offense, much has been discussed about this before, there is an article on his early years about him wanting to be the 5 man and be the main pick and roll/pop big. the main problem is he has neither rim protection nor post defense so their always need to pair him with a rim protector. watch his clip with uta kessler is in the dunker while collins is the main roller or popper. even if you think you are smarter than every gm in the league who does not want to trade for him, you gotta acknowledge that there might be something wrong beyond his 50/40 stat line, it could be that he is a 5 on offense and no position on defense.

Even if he's a 5 on offense he's definitely a 4 on defense, which is basically exactly what you would need next to Wemby, who plays like a 4 on offense and a 5 on defense. I view Collins as a better version of Sochan, so if that's the plan, they might as well go for it. The main reason is that he's cheap. You can go for better fits later if it doesn't work out, but he's certainly a better player than all of our other forwards which are Sochan, Keldon, Barnes and Champagnie.

[rankingtear]

Even if he's a 5 on offense he's definitely a 4 on defense, which is basically exactly what you would need next to Wemby, who plays like a 4 on offense and a 5 on defense. I view Collins as a better version of Sochan, so if that's the plan, they might as well go for it. The main reason is that he's cheap. You can go for better fits later if it doesn't work out, but he's certainly a better player than all of our other forwards which are Sochan, Keldon, Barnes and Champagnie.

Eh they only play him like a 4 to try integrating sochan but they went away from that the second half it is not just sochan cant shoot it is because Wemby not being involed in primary actions is dumb. defensively collins a weakside rim protector you make him defend the 5th option so he can sort roam and help, wemby is probably the c who needs weak side rim protection the least tbh. I just dont get the fit some are spewing around here. i think it is the opposite he is a good but if you dont get the context of how he gets his shot or how he is used defensively your just evaluating him at bball reference level. and nobody wants to argue with a stats page reader.

[RC_Drunkford]

Eh they only play him like a 4 to try integrating sochan but they went away from that the second half it is not just sochan cant shoot it is because Wemby not being involed in primary actions is dumb. defensively collins a weakside rim protector you make him defend the 5th option so he can sort roam and help, wemby is probably the c who needs weak side rim protection the least tbh. I just dont get the fit some are spewing around here. i think it is the opposite he is a good but if you dont get the context of how he gets his shot or how he is used defensively your just evaluating him at bball reference level. and nobody wants to argue with a stats page reader.

I'd assume I've watched a lot more Collins tape than you. He's a better perimeter defender than Barnes. He's pretty good at defending bigs. He shoots the corner 3 1% better than Barnes and on a worse team. Offensively he can screen and roll, but he can also pick & pop. He can handle, take players off the dribble, post up, cut and is a lob threat. He's also a better rebounder than Barnes and rebounding was one of our main issues. He's better than Barnes and Sochan, so he would be an upgrade over them.

If Mitch is in every postgame interview saying "we lacked physicality" and Will Hardy says "John is our tone setter when it comes to physicality" than that's the guy you should get, especially when he's way better than the 2 other guys you got on your roster who play that position.

[rankingtear]

I'd assume I've watched a lot more Collins tape than you. He's a better perimeter defender than Barnes. He's pretty good at defending bigs. He shoots the corner 3 1% better than Barnes and on a worse team. Offensively he can screen and roll, but he can also pick & pop. He can handle, take players off the dribble, post up, cut and is a lob threat. He's also a better rebounder than Barnes and rebounding was one of our main issues. He's better than Barnes and Sochan, so he would be an upgrade over them.

If Mitch is in every postgame interview saying "we lacked physicality" and Will Hardy says "John is our tone setter when it comes to physicality" than that's the guy you should get, especially when he's way better than the 2 other guys you got on your roster who play that position.

I don't know how watching more tape has to do with anything. the discussion has gone another direction tbh. it was about him playing center on offense that is why he is registering a 50/40 statline. that is the context of the line.

[HankChinaski]

I never thought J Collins was a superstar. He would have been a idle fit providing improved defense over other players at the position, shooting and interior offense and all within a reasonable budget.

OH well spurs decided he wasn't worth 2nds and matching salary. Annoying.

[spurraider21]

Jazz took on Slow-Mo who isn’t even expiring, and will make 9.7mil next season. So it’s not even like they were only demanding expiring contracts. Confirming he could have been had for keldon and some seconds

:pctoss

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Jazz took on Slow-Mo who isn’t even expiring, and will make 9.7mil next season. So it’s not even like they were only demanding expiring contracts. Confirming he could have been had for keldon and some seconds

:pctoss

Kyle's contract next season is fully unguaranteed, so he's an expiring, essentially.

[spurraider21]

Kyle's contract next season is fully unguaranteed, so he's an expiring, essentially.
Ah that helps.

fine

:tu

[exstatic]

Jazz took on Slow-Mo who isn’t even expiring, and will make 9.7mil next season. So it’s not even like they were only demanding expiring contracts. Confirming he could have been had for keldon and some seconds

:pctoss

Collins wants a long term extension. Would it have been clearer why the Spurs didn’t want him if he were under contract for four years r/n?

[rankingtear]

finally jollins discussion ends.

[spurraider21]

Collins wants a long term extension. Would it have been clearer why the Spurs didn’t want him if he were under contract for four years r/n?
then thats fine, let him expire if you cant find something reasonable. you still would get off KJ's 26-27 contract while improving the club for 25-26

anyway its moot now

[RC_Drunkford]

I don't know how watching more tape has to do with anything. the discussion has gone another direction tbh. it was about him playing center on offense that is why he is registering a 50/40 statline. that is the context of the line.

so he shoots 40% from 3 cause he plays center and if he played PF he wouldn't shoot 40% from 3?

[spurraider21]

so he shoots 40% from 3 cause he plays center and if he played PF he wouldn't shoot 40% from 3?
i think the rationale is that one would get higher quality looks on average when being defended by opposing centers.

[Seventyniner]

then thats fine, let him expire if you cant find something reasonable. you still would get off KJ's 26-27 contract while improving the club for 25-26

anyway its moot now

I get the feeling Utah wasn't ever going to take on any 26-27 salary in the deal. Or at least not for a net neutral at best player like Keldon.

[scott]

Not at all surprised the Spurs weren't interested in Jollins...

Am very surprised that we haven't made any other moves to fill out the roster though.

I'm guessing we have a Bassey/Bismack resigning yet to come and probably signing some guy none of us have ever thought about.

[Mr. Body]

Not at all surprised the Spurs weren't interested in Jollins...

Am very surprised that we haven't made any other moves to fill out the roster though.

I'm guessing we have a Bassey/Bismack resigning yet to come and probably signing some guy none of us have ever thought about.

The only people that love John Collins is SpursTalk. It seems no one else in the world is excited about him. Clippers seem to be piling bodies together, including Bradley Beale soon, in hopes their aging heap of a roster works out somehow.

I'd be surprised if the Spurs don't do anything else, but that may be the case.

[spurraider21]

Not at all surprised the Spurs weren't interested in Jollins...

Am very surprised that we haven't made any other moves to fill out the roster though.

I'm guessing we have a Bassey/Bismack resigning yet to come and probably signing some guy none of us have ever thought about.
yeah... still 2 roster spots open in addition to all the 2-way spots. theres nothing really interesting on the market anymore outside of somebody like Coffey who has a little intrigue. for the 3rd center, i think as a 3rd stringer bassey makes more sense than biyombo. get him on a cheap 2 year deal with only the first guaranteed. for the last spot i would expect them to just bring in Duke even though they probably should take somebody who can shoot

and then for 2-way i would fully expect Minix and Ingram back. for the last spot i would guess Chibuzo Agbo

[Guru of Nothing]

Not at all surprised the Spurs weren't interested in Jollins...

Am very surprised that we haven't made any other moves to fill out the roster though.

I'm guessing we have a Bassey/Bismack resigning yet to come and probably signing some guy none of us have ever thought about.

Aren't there several shoes that still need to drop? Kuminga comes to mind. If he moves in a sign and trade, maybe the Spurs can assist. Related: Al Horford? (if he is to end up in Golden State).

[scott]

yeah... still 2 roster spots open in addition to all the 2-way spots. theres nothing really interesting on the market anymore outside of somebody like Coffey who has a little intrigue. for the 3rd center, i think as a 3rd stringer bassey makes more sense than biyombo. get him on a cheap 2 year deal with only the first guaranteed. for the last spot i would expect them to just bring in Duke even though they probably should take somebody who can shoot

and then for 2-way i would fully expect Minix and Ingram back. for the last spot i would guess Chibuzo Agbo

If Kevin Love gets bought out, I'd like for us to sign him, specifically so he can have a Spurs podcast with Luke Kornet, if for no other reason.

[Seventyniner]

If Kevin Love gets bought out, I'd like for us to sign him, specifically so he can have a Spurs podcast with Luke Kornet, if for no other reason.

He can also take #0 and Keldon can have #3. Then Vassell takes Kobe's other number and all the lowest possible jersey numbers (considering jersey retirements) up to #14 would be taken.

#0 Love
#1 Wembanyama
#2 Harper
#3 Johnson
#4 Fox
#5 Castle
#7 Kornet
#8 Vassell
#10 Sochan
#11 Bryant
#14 Wesley

Barnes and Champ, and maybe some others who fill out the roster, will be the lone "high" jersey number holdouts. #30 is more middle of the road too.

[SpursFan86]

Not at all surprised the Spurs weren't interested in Jollins...

Am very surprised that we haven't made any other moves to fill out the roster though.

I'm guessing we have a Bassey/Bismack resigning yet to come and probably signing some guy none of us have ever thought about.

Fox/Castle/Harper/Vassell should soak up the vast majority of the minutes at the 1 and 2...Wesley gets some spot minutes here and there. Hopefully Branham hardly ever sees the floor tbh. This is the most straight-forward part of the rotation IMO.

For the 3, I imagine pretty much all of the minutes go to some combination of Vassell/Champagnie/Sochan/Keldon. Maybe Castle proves he can be a legit wing type player, but it's just already pretty crowded...I'd love for Keldon to be mostly phased out but I don't see that happening.

At PF is where it gets ugly IMO. Sochan/Barnes/Bryant? We better really hope that Barnes doesn't have any sort of noticeable fall-off from last year. Even if Sochan takes a step forward it just seems brutal. Maybe they really do want to keep Wemby at the 4 a lot of the time.

If the latter statement is the case, seems like they're expecting Kornet to have a larger role. Have Wemby play 15-20 mpg at PF and 15ish mpg at center...then Kornet soaks up ~25 mpg at center and you're left with spot minutes for someone like Bassey or Biyombo.

[scott]

He can also take #0 and Keldon can have #3. Then Vassell takes Kobe's other number and all the lowest possible jersey numbers (considering jersey retirements) up to #14 would be taken.

#0 Love
#1 Wembanyama
#2 Harper
#3 Johnson
#4 Fox
#5 Castle
#7 Kornet
#8 Vassell
#10 Sochan
#11 Bryant
#14 Wesley

Barnes and Champ, and maybe some others who fill out the roster, will be the lone "high" jersey number holdouts. #30 is more middle of the road too.

While this is at the bottom of my list of concerns... this would be pretty cool.

It would also be hilarious in the context of the fake image I've constructed of Devin* for him to change his number like Kobe before he's earned any kind of accolades :lol

*The one where Devin enters the game down 35 with 6 minutes left to play and whispers to himself "This is my time to shine" - I have no clue if Devin is really like this, and honestly I doubt he is, but it's a funny mental image I've created

[scott]

Fox/Castle/Harper/Vassell should soak up the vast majority of the minutes at the 1 and 2...Wesley gets some spot minutes here and there. Hopefully Branham hardly ever sees the floor tbh. This is the most straight-forward part of the rotation IMO.

For the 3, I imagine pretty much all of the minutes go to some combination of Vassell/Champagnie/Sochan/Keldon. Maybe Castle proves he can be a legit wing type player, but it's just already pretty crowded...I'd love for Keldon to be mostly phased out but I don't see that happening.

At PF is where it gets ugly IMO. Sochan/Barnes/Bryant? We better really hope that Barnes doesn't have any sort of noticeable fall-off from last year. Even if Sochan takes a step forward it just seems brutal. Maybe they really do want to keep Wemby at the 4 a lot of the time.

If the latter statement is the case, seems like they're expecting Kornet to have a larger role. Have Wemby play 15-20 mpg at PF and 15ish mpg at center...then Kornet soaks up ~25 mpg at center and you're left with spot minutes for someone like Bassey or Biyombo.

The fact that we only have 13 players on the roster while pre-emptively trading away our SRP a day early (before we even know who is on the board), signals one of two things to me:

1) The team had plans to do more and they either struck out with those plans (maybe it was Yabu... maybe it was Ryan Rollins... etc), or they are still working on them (some trade working in the background), or

2) The team is wholly confident in what they have and think they can just fill those last roster spots with whatever scraps are left in the free agency pile. Considering this team hasn't had a winning record in a long time, and 2 of those 13 roster spots are currently taken up by Blake Wesley and Malaki Branham... this would strike me as an unbelievable level of hubris if it were true. Even if the Spurs absolutely love every guy on the roster as currently constructed, there is no justification to not take opportunities to make the team incrementally better. Even a team like OKC, who just won the chip with a 68 win team, is still drafting guys and moving off the end of the roster in order to incrementally improve.

Option 2 is so absurd, that I refuse to believe it. The only way that would make sense is if we were planning on tanking again, which I also refuse to believe.

So... either something is coming, or the team really misjudged its ability to land its preferred targets. I'm going to be optimistic and believe the former for now.

[SpursFan86]

The fact that we only have 13 players on the roster while pre-emptively trading away our SRP a day early (before we even know who is on the board), signals one of two things to me:

1) The team had plans to do more and they either struck out with those plans (maybe it was Yabu... maybe it was Ryan Rollins... etc), or they are still working on them (some trade working in the background), or

2) The team is wholly confident in what they have and think they can just fill those last roster spots with whatever scraps are left in the free agency pile. Considering this team hasn't had a winning record in a long time, and 2 of those 13 roster spots are currently taken up by Blake Wesley and Malaki Branham... this would strike me as an unbelievable level of hubris if it were true. Even if the Spurs absolutely love every guy on the roster as currently constructed, there is no justification to not take opportunities to make the team incrementally better. Even a team like OKC, who just won the chip with a 68 win team, is still drafting guys and moving off the end of the roster in order to incrementally improve.

Option 2 is so absurd, that I refuse to believe it. The only way that would make sense is if we were planning on tanking again, which I also refuse to believe.

So... either something is coming, or the team really misjudged its ability to land its preferred targets. I'm going to be optimistic and believe the former for now.

Unfortunately I'm not sure I share the optimism. I truly think the Spurs are looking at it from the standpoint of "Well we never got to see Fox/Wemby really play, we're adding two lottery picks, and we filled a major hole at backup center with the Kornet signing. That's enough change for next year to see how things play out".

I get the sense they're much higher on Vassell/Keldon/Sochan/Barnes than we are, tbh. Clearly they're decently high on Vassell/Keldon given the contracts they received. At this point I'd be pretty surprised if they don't extend Sochan. Barnes probably doesn't deserve to get lumped in here: he's at least a strong vet presence + is one of the few people who can actually shoot on this team.

Would just be pretty wild to me to go into next season not adding a single shooter outside of 19 year-old Carter Bryant :lol

[scott]

Unfortunately I'm not sure I share the optimism. I truly think the Spurs are looking at it from the standpoint of "Well we never got to see Fox/Wemby really play, we're adding two lottery picks, and we filled a major hole at backup center with the Kornet signing. That's enough change for next year to see how things play out".

I get the sense they're much higher on Vassell/Keldon/Sochan/Barnes than we are, tbh. Clearly they're decently high on Vassell/Keldon given the contracts they received. At this point I'd be pretty surprised if they don't extend Sochan. Barnes probably doesn't deserve to get lumped in here: he's at least a strong vet presence + is one of the few people who can actually shoot on this team.

Would just be pretty wild to me to go into next season not adding a single shooter outside of 19 year-old Carter Bryant :lol

I'm actually fine if they are high on the PoF and want to roll with them... but that still doesn't excuse not trying to fill out the roster with real NBA players and maybe it's just copium but I refuse to believe that the FO is just thinking "the PoF is so good that we can resign Bassey and then pick up a bum off the street and we'll be good to go".

There just is no practical reason to not take advantage of empty roster spots, even if its on some vet min guy or a second round pick. It just doesn't make any sense... but then again, the Spurs have been ignoring the end of the roster and using SRPs, and even generally using the two-ways on viable future players (Bassey and Champ did come through this way though... I'd like to see us use two-ways like we did on these guys).

[exstatic]

Unfortunately I'm not sure I share the optimism. I truly think the Spurs are looking at it from the standpoint of "Well we never got to see Fox/Wemby really play, we're adding two lottery picks, and we filled a major hole at backup center with the Kornet signing. That's enough change for next year to see how things play out".

I get the sense they're much higher on Vassell/Keldon/Sochan/Barnes than we are, tbh. Clearly they're decently high on Vassell/Keldon given the contracts they received. At this point I'd be pretty surprised if they don't extend Sochan. Barnes probably doesn't deserve to get lumped in here: he's at least a strong vet presence + is one of the few people who can actually shoot on this team.

Would just be pretty wild to me to go into next season not adding a single shooter outside of 19 year-old Carter Bryant :lol

My guess is that with his rudimentary skill set, Bryants 3s are of the catch and shoot variety, and Harper is at least as good in that department. Being the lead guard, he didn’t get many of those opportunities, and his bounce game isn’t there yet, dragging down his percentage. Both Harper and Fox are both good catch and shoot guys, which is why the lineups with the 3 guards will work. All 3 can legit pressure the rim, and kickouts will be available.

[Bruno]

The fact that we only have 13 players on the roster while pre-emptively trading away our SRP a day early (before we even know who is on the board), signals one of two things to me:


I think Spurs just don't want right now to have prospects at the end of their bench. In 2023 and 2025, their traded their early second round pick and in 2024, they used it on a stashed player.

My guess is that they think right now there are more drawbacks than edges to have this kind of players. Spurs might want to have as much stability as possible around the young players they truly believe in (Wembanyama, Castle, Harper and Bryant).

[Seventyniner]

While this is at the bottom of my list of concerns... this would be pretty cool.

It would also be hilarious in the context of the fake image I've constructed of Devin* for him to change his number like Kobe before he's earned any kind of accolades :lol

*The one where Devin enters the game down 35 with 6 minutes left to play and whispers to himself "This is my time to shine" - I have no clue if Devin is really like this, and honestly I doubt he is, but it's a funny mental image I've created

That sounds like a prime entry for the ChatGPT images thread.

[k830713]

I'm worried that Spurs' lack of transfer activity could lead to a desire to tank and fight for AJ Dybantsa

[DPG21920]

I think Spurs just don't want right now to have prospects at the end of their bench. In 2023 and 2025, their traded their early second round pick and in 2024, they used it on a stashed player.

My guess is that they think right now there are more drawbacks than edges to have this kind of players. Spurs might want to have as much stability as possible around the young players they truly believe in (Wembanyama, Castle, Harper and Bryant).

To me that’s the lazy route. Once spurs know someone doesnt have a future (Branham, Bassey, Ingram, etc..) they should be quicker to move on and try taking some swings on guys.

Theres no reason, especially with guys who dont play IMO, to worry about continuity. The goal is to find rotation players you can actually use with some upside or ability to get on the court and outperform deal

[scott]

This Norman Powell trade has me thinking about adding the Clippers to the list of teams we should target in trades (SAC, CHI, NOP being ones already on there).

The Clippers have had some bangers over the years.

Traded Baron Davis and what would become the #1 pick (that became Kyrie) a few months later for Mo Williams and something called Jamario Moon

Traded SGA and a zillion picks for Paul George

Traded Norman Powell for John Collins, who apparently no one else wanted

Maybe we can send them Branham for some unprotected FRPs

[spurraider21]

This Norman Powell trade has me thinking about adding the Clippers to the list of teams we should target in trades (SAC, CHI, NOP being ones already on there).

The Clippers have had some bangers over the years.

Traded Baron Davis and what would become the #1 pick (that became Kyrie) a few months later for Mo Williams and something called Jamario Moon
yeah, that one was horrible. i think they were just trying to salary dump baron davis, but giving away the unprotected pick had hilarious results. then again they had less than a 3% chance of that pick winninge the lotto. that pick had something like a 90% chance of being #8 or later. still, giving away a lotto pick just to salary dump cant be justified. there was a time i liked jamario moon when he was on toronto in his first couple of years. ridiculous athlete, played hard on both ends, but by the time this trade was made there was no intrigue left


Traded SGA and a zillion picks for Paul George
ill defend this one. they traded SGA and 5 picks for Paul George and Kawhi. my understanding is kawhi made it known they would be a package deal, and that he would only sign with the clippers if they made that simultaneous trade. people knew SGA was good, nobody knew this good. but dealing for 2 all-nba guys at the same time in their primes, both coming off very strong years is not necessarily bad business. they a couple of solid runs early but then fell apart with injuries


Traded Norman Powell for John Collins, who apparently no one else wanted
i think theyre roughly equivalent as players and i dont hate this move for the clippers at all. they had a big hole at the 4, and are currently one of the frontrunners to land beal for cheap at the 2. i like this move for them


Maybe we can send them Branham for some unprotected FRPs
you had me at hello

[poopbox]

The fact that we only have 13 players on the roster while pre-emptively trading away our SRP a day early (before we even know who is on the board), signals one of two things to me:

1) The team had plans to do more and they either struck out with those plans (maybe it was Yabu... maybe it was Ryan Rollins... etc), or they are still working on them (some trade working in the background), or

2) The team is wholly confident in what they have and think they can just fill those last roster spots with whatever scraps are left in the free agency pile. Considering this team hasn't had a winning record in a long time, and 2 of those 13 roster spots are currently taken up by Blake Wesley and Malaki Branham... this would strike me as an unbelievable level of hubris if it were true. Even if the Spurs absolutely love every guy on the roster as currently constructed, there is no justification to not take opportunities to make the team incrementally better. Even a team like OKC, who just won the chip with a 68 win team, is still drafting guys and moving off the end of the roster in order to incrementally improve.

Option 2 is so absurd, that I refuse to believe it. The only way that would make sense is if we were planning on tanking again, which I also refuse to believe.

So... either something is coming, or the team really misjudged its ability to land its preferred targets. I'm going to be optimistic and believe the former for now.

Pretty sure it's option 2 with a twist. Spurs don't actually know how to build a team so they don't see any value in filling out the last two roster spots.

These are the decisions people who never produce winning seasons make.

The spurs have an accountability problem as an organization. The greatness of Wemby might be able to brute force this franchise back to relevancy. But unless the spurs actually have and value accountability, it's the only way they will be relevant again.

[scott]

spurraider21, no matter the justification for LAC, it seems like their big deals usually end up on the losing end, and that's the key. I remember a Bill Simmons episode where he said "Just keep trading with SAC and CHI. It doesn't even matter what they trade is, just trade with them and you'll win". I'm adding LAC to my list, because for whatever reason their trades usually end up with hilarious bad results. I'm expecting Powell to be Michael Jordon this season while John Collins turns into Zach Collins :lol

[TD 21]

To me that’s the lazy route. Once spurs know someone doesnt have a future (Branham, Bassey, Ingram, etc..) they should be quicker to move on and try taking some swings on guys.

Theres no reason, especially with guys who dont play IMO, to worry about continuity. The goal is to find rotation players you can actually use with some upside or ability to get on the court and outperform deal

The inability to admit wrong and softness (like micro managing a 19 year old, projected non rotation player in summer league when other teams aren't with more proven/seasoned players) are the two issues I have with this organization.

Aided by historical draft luck, they've mostly nailed things in recent years, but these attributes or characteristics have to go yesterday.

They need to stop pretending they're the post prime Duncan/big three era Spurs and start seeing themselves as what they've been for a while, which is one of the dregs. The difference is, the others don't have the luxury of acting like them.

[scott]

Pretty sure it's option 2 with a twist. Spurs don't actually know how to build a team so they don't see any value in filling out the last two roster spots.

These are the decisions people who never produce winning seasons make.

The spurs have an accountability problem as an organization. The greatness of Wemby might be able to brute force this franchise back to relevancy. But unless the spurs actually have and value accountability, it's the only way they will be relevant again.

Agreed about accountability, and this is Holt Jr's failing as an owner. No expectations, no accountability. He's left it to his two highest paid non-player employees to set the expectations and hold people accountable, and those two have in turn established The Patience Grift (trademark pending). We've been patient for so long, one of the creators of the grift nearly died before we could get back to the playoffs.

[pad300]

SAS out - Branham (and possibly a second from our 4 in 2026)
UTA out - Kyle Anderson

Why for UTA - another ~$5 Million in savings (or capspace) and continue the tank.
Why for SAS - Roster balance. Kyle Anderson will give us much more useful minutes this season (at the 4) than Branham (at the 2). Also, he might be a sneaky good fit at the 4 beside Wemby... He's on roughly $10M this year, and next year is unguaranteed if it doesn't work out...

[exstatic]

To me that’s the lazy route. Once spurs know someone doesnt have a future (Branham, Bassey, Ingram, etc..) they should be quicker to move on and try taking some swings on guys.

Theres no reason, especially with guys who dont play IMO, to worry about continuity. The goal is to find rotation players you can actually use with some upside or ability to get on the court and outperform deal

Bassey has been moved on from, and Ingram doesn’t have a roster spot.

They had, and still have a roster spot that they could have used for #38. There no need to move anyone to make that pick.

Here’s the deal. If you come in as a FRP, and play ball, getting the culture and doing the work, you get your 4 years. I’ve only seen SA not pick it up 3 times, James Anderson with a fifth metatarsal fracture that at the time was a career death sentence, Sammich who was lazy ass, and Primo the flasher.

The Spurs ask a lot of their rookies, all of their players really, and that’s the payoff, the reward. Contracts like Malaki’s and Blake’s aren’t expensive, but they would cost assets to get off cleanly creating a roster spot, and it just isn’t worth it. Those second round picks you’re interested in would be the cost to get off those contracts you want gone.

You can rail about and bitch about it, but that’s the way it’s going to be done, so it’s really pointless. I knew Lonnie was a dud after year 2, and I’d have to watch him for two more years. I didn’t bitch, because he was pretty much moved out of the way, and his contract wasn’t much money as a 17 pick. Que sera.

[RC_Drunkford]

The only people that love John Collins is SpursTalk. It seems no one else in the world is excited about him. Clippers seem to be piling bodies together, including Bradley Beale soon, in hopes their aging heap of a roster works out somehow.

I'd be surprised if the Spurs don't do anything else, but that may be the case.

yeah the Clippers just traded a borderline All-Star for him, but I'm sure they secretely hate John Collins lol

[RC_Drunkford]

SAS out - Branham (and possibly a second from our 4 in 2026)
UTA out - Kyle Anderson

Why for UTA - another ~$5 Million in savings (or capspace) and continue the tank.
Why for SAS - Roster balance. Kyle Anderson will give us much more useful minutes this season (at the 4) than Branham (at the 2). Also, he might be a sneaky good fit at the 4 beside Wemby... He's on roughly $10M this year, and next year is unguaranteed if it doesn't work out...

would that be the return of SAGirl?

[Chinook]

I like Anderson, but he wouldn't play. The Spurs don't need a PF unless they're trading Barnes or Sochan.

[DPG21920]

The inability to admit wrong and softness (like micro managing a 19 year old, projected non rotation player in summer league when other teams aren't with more proven/seasoned players) are the two issues I have with this organization.

Aided by historical draft luck, they've mostly nailed things in recent years, but these attributes or characteristics have to go yesterday.

They need to stop pretending they're the post prime Duncan/big three era Spurs and start seeing themselves as what they've been for a while, which is one of the dregs. The difference is, the others don't have the luxury of acting like them.

I think the FO has done a PHENOMENAL job. Im just nitpicking the fringes here because I want them to be sharks and turn over every single little stone for opportunities. But as a whole? They have been really damn good and Im very happy with what they have done last 5 years and now.

Even if I am nitpicking (like here) I think keeping big picture in mind is warranted and they have earned trust (especially Brian)

[DPG21920]

Bassey has been moved on from, and Ingram doesn’t have a roster spot.

They had, and still have a roster spot that they could have used for #38. There no need to move anyone to make that pick.

Here’s the deal. If you come in as a FRP, and play ball, getting the culture and doing the work, you get your 4 years. I’ve only seen SA not pick it up 3 times, James Anderson with a fifth metatarsal fracture that at the time was a career death sentence, Sammich who was lazy ass, and Primo the flasher.

The Spurs ask a lot of their rookies, all of their players really, and that’s the payoff, the reward. Contracts like Malaki’s and Blake’s aren’t expensive, but they would cost assets to get off cleanly creating a roster spot, and it just isn’t worth it. Those second round picks you’re interested in would be the cost to get off those contracts you want gone.

You can rail about and bitch about it, but that’s the way it’s going to be done, so it’s really pointless. I knew Lonnie was a dud after year 2, and I’d have to watch him for two more years. I didn’t bitch, because he was pretty much moved out of the way, and his contract wasn’t much money as a 17 pick. Que sera.

They keep making trades for cash - I want dead weight off and away from the team. You don’t perform and dont have a spot? You should be gone. We aren’t in pure develop and be ok if we suck mode any more.

It’s getting more cut throat.

[DPG21920]

I like Anderson, but he wouldn't play. The Spurs don't need a PF unless they're trading Barnes or Sochan.

Agree. Any move that’s not end of bench upside guy/2way needs to come via trade or be a legit 3.

[spurraider21]

The only people that love John Collins is SpursTalk. It seems no one else in the world is excited about him. Clippers seem to be piling bodies together, including Bradley Beale soon, in hopes their aging heap of a roster works out somehow.

I'd be surprised if the Spurs don't do anything else, but that may be the case.
im having austin reaves flashbacks

[Seventyniner]

Bassey has been moved on from, and Ingram doesn’t have a roster spot.

They had, and still have a roster spot that they could have used for #38. There no need to move anyone to make that pick.

Here’s the deal. If you come in as a FRP, and play ball, getting the culture and doing the work, you get your 4 years. I’ve only seen SA not pick it up 3 times, James Anderson with a fifth metatarsal fracture that at the time was a career death sentence, Sammich who was lazy ass, and Primo the flasher.

The Spurs ask a lot of their rookies, all of their players really, and that’s the payoff, the reward. Contracts like Malaki’s and Blake’s aren’t expensive, but they would cost assets to get off cleanly creating a roster spot, and it just isn’t worth it. Those second round picks you’re interested in would be the cost to get off those contracts you want gone.

You can rail about and bitch about it, but that’s the way it’s going to be done, so it’s really pointless. I knew Lonnie was a dud after year 2, and I’d have to watch him for two more years. I didn’t bitch, because he was pretty much moved out of the way, and his contract wasn’t much money as a 17 pick. Que sera.

The Spurs have also been smart enough to remove non-performing rookie deal players from the rotation. Wesley only got spot minutes and Branham was at the very end of the rotation, and both of those were deserved.

[exstatic]

They keep making trades for cash - I want dead weight off and away from the team. You don’t perform and dont have a spot? You should be gone. We aren’t in pure develop and be ok if we suck mode any more.

It’s getting more cut throat.

They traded 38 for cash, and a 2030 SRP. It isn’t gone, it was just kicked down the road. If you want to see picks actually gone, that’s what it will take to cleanly break from Malaki and/or Blake. No one takes them into cap room for free to create a roster spot for us.

I don’t understand this obsession with getting rid of Malaki and Blake. They are bottom of roster players who will roll off next summer for free. You won’t have to pay to create a roster spot, it will just happen organically.

Also, do you really think any SRP will get development time? That will be reserved for Steph, Dylan, and Carter, the high dollar value investment players.

[pad300]

I like Anderson, but he wouldn't play. The Spurs don't need a PF unless they're trading Barnes or Sochan.

Two bodies isn't enough to cover a position (IMO of course) for an 82 game season + playoffs (theoretically at least).

[Ice009]

ill defend this one. they traded SGA and 5 picks for Paul George and Kawhi. my understanding is kawhi made it known they would be a package deal, and that he would only sign with the clippers if they made that simultaneous trade. people knew SGA was good, nobody knew this good. but dealing for 2 all-nba guys at the same time in their primes, both coming off very strong years is not necessarily bad business. they a couple of solid runs early but then fell apart with injuries


i think theyre roughly equivalent as players and i dont hate this move for the clippers at all. they had a big hole at the 4, and are currently one of the frontrunners to land beal for cheap at the 2. i like this move for them


I don't think people realize how good of a year Paul George had that season. He was 3rd in MVP voting, 3rd in defensive player of the year voting, 1st team All-NBA (Kawhi didn't even make first team), 1st team All-Defense. He had a monster year. It was the best season of his career. I still think 5 FRPs was a bit much (they should have capped it at 4). However, if you add Kawhi as a package deal (like you were saying) who just won the Championship and finals MVP, I guess if you combine the two, five first round picks wasn't that bad.

Looking back on it now, though, it was a bad trade IMO as SGA looks like he's a better player than both, or at the very least, superior player to Paul George. Would you guys say now that SGA won MVP, finals MVP and lead his team to the Championship, would you say he's a better player than prime Kawhi, or not yet?

As for the Clippers, Utah, Miami trade, why did Miami end up with Norman Powell? Were the Jazz just trying to shed salary?

[Chinook]

Two bodies isn't enough to cover a position (IMO of course) for an 82 game season + playoffs (theoretically at least).

They have more than two bodies already. It's far more covered than center is.

[DPG21920]

They traded 38 for cash, and a 2030 SRP. It isn’t gone, it was just kicked down the road. If you want to see picks actually gone, that’s what it will take to cleanly break from Malaki and/or Blake. No one takes them into cap room for free to create a roster spot for us.

I don’t understand this obsession with getting rid of Malaki and Blake. They are bottom of roster players who will roll off next summer for free. You won’t have to pay to create a roster spot, it will just happen organically.

Also, do you really think any SRP will get development time? That will be reserved for Steph, Dylan, and Carter, the high dollar value investment players.

Yes - I think those guys can play in G-League and all of that. The point about trading for cash was not to knock Spurs but a counter to your point about moving on from guys. They are getting the money to do that if they so desired.

It’s not an obsession but they are dead weight. They aren’t doing anything and even if odds are low that another 14th man can do something you need to keep hunting for value and nba rotation players always.

I was fine with it before, but now the team is moving forward and if you have not shown your stuff? It’s time to move on IMO

[Bruno]

To me that’s the lazy route. Once spurs know someone doesnt have a future (Branham, Bassey, Ingram, etc..) they should be quicker to move on and try taking some swings on guys.

Theres no reason, especially with guys who dont play IMO, to worry about continuity. The goal is to find rotation players you can actually use with some upside or ability to get on the court and outperform deal

I also rather see Spurs being active with the end of the roster (regular roster and the 3 two way spots) and try new prospects instead of being that passive.

I just get why Spurs are acting like they are. An end of the bench prospect will require, at some point, playing time to evaluate and develop him. Building a team around an atypical player like Wembanyama is a challenge big enough that Spurs don't want to complicate it by adding the evaluation and development of marginal prospects.

[poopbox]

I think the FO has done a PHENOMENAL job. Im just nitpicking the fringes here because I want them to be sharks and turn over every single little stone for opportunities. But as a whole? They have been really damn good and Im very happy with what they have done last 5 years and now.

Even if I am nitpicking (like here) I think keeping big picture in mind is warranted and they have earned trust (especially Brian)

You think a front office who hasn't produces a winning season in 6 years is phenomenal at their job :wow

You are very happy with what they have done in 5 years, where they have set all types of dubious records like most losses in a row and i believe either first, second, or third most home losses in a season :cry

A GM who has never produced a winning season has "earned your trust":wow

[TimDunkem]

Phenomenal is definitely hyperbole.

[pad300]

They have more than two bodies already. It's far more covered than center is.

Who else on our roster besides Sochan and Harrison are physically suited to play PF in the NBA (ie not undersized or weak, and yet having enough footspeed to keep up.)?

[pad300]

They have more than two bodies already. It's far more covered than center is.

Who else on our roster besides Sochan and Harrison are physically suited to play PF in the NBA (ie not undersized or weak, and yet having enough footspeed to keep up.)?

[spurraider21]

Who else on our roster besides Sochan and Harrison are physically suited to play PF in the NBA (ie not undersized or weak, and yet having enough footspeed to keep up.)?
its also pretty generous to say barnes is physically suited to play PF

[pad300]

its also pretty generous to say barnes is physically suited to play PF

True. But I think that Dejounte is right, and the Spurs have made a decision to go with a smaller perimeter PF beside Wemby. By traditional standards, Sochan is small-ish, and so is Anderson (although he does have that wingspan...)

[scott]

Yes - I think those guys can play in G-League and all of that. The point about trading for cash was not to knock Spurs but a counter to your point about moving on from guys. They are getting the money to do that if they so desired.

It’s not an obsession but they are dead weight. They aren’t doing anything and even if odds are low that another 14th man can do something you need to keep hunting for value and nba rotation players always.

I was fine with it before, but now the team is moving forward and if you have not shown your stuff? It’s time to move on IMO

TBH, I'm a little more concerned that we don't even have a 14th man right now. Branham is currently the 13th man... and that's too high of a place for him to be on any roster outside of China :lol

[scott]

True. But I think that Dejounte is right, and the Spurs have made a decision to go with a smaller perimeter PF beside Wemby. By traditional standards, Sochan is small-ish, and so is Anderson (although he does have that wingspan...)

I must have missed the news... are we bringing back Kyle, Cadillac, Willie or James?

[Chinook]

Who else on our roster besides Sochan and Harrison are physically suited to play PF in the NBA (ie not undersized or weak, and yet having enough footspeed to keep up.)?

Bryant and Johnson will play there, as will Minix and Ingram. Wemby is very likely to play there too. It's the most covered position on the entire roster. You not thinking the players are good enough (and you'd have a point there) is not the same thing as the Spurs not having guys they'd play there. The latter is what's needed to motivate a trade.

[Chinook]

I must have missed the news... are we bringing back Kyle, Cadillac, Willie or James?

Talking about trading for Kyle now that he's a Jazz. It's not a bad idea, but the Spurs wouldn't play him over Barnes and Sochan. Probably not over Keldon either.

[pad300]

Bryant and Johnson will play there, as will Minix and Ingram. Wemby is very likely to play there too. It's the most covered position on the entire roster. You not thinking the players are good enough (and you'd have a point there) is not the same thing as the Spurs not having guys they'd play there. The latter is what's needed to motivate a trade.

We've spent the last 2 years establishing that Wemby's best at 5.
Minix and Ingram are career G-league bait (and are undersized for the position).
Johnson is mucho undersized.
Bryant is a rook (and slightly undersized).

[spurraider21]

Bryant and Johnson will play there, as will Minix and Ingram. Wemby is very likely to play there too. It's the most covered position on the entire roster. You not thinking the players are good enough (and you'd have a point there) is not the same thing as the Spurs not having guys they'd play there. The latter is what's needed to motivate a trade.
saying "keldon will play power forward" is no less reassuring than telling you sochan will play center

theres no indication that either ingram/minix are ready for NBA minutes at all. and neither is currently under contract, NBA or two-way

just naming guys isnt really addressing the need

[scott]

Talking about trading for Kyle now that he's a Jazz. It's not a bad idea, but the Spurs wouldn't play him over Barnes and Sochan. Probably not over Keldon either.

I know, I was just making a (bad) joke.

Kyle would certainly be a luxury as a deep bench guy, probably does not align with his career goals and ambitions though, and while I'd play him over Keldon (as a deep bench PF, that is) you're probably correct that the Spurs may not.

There are some interesting, yet conflicting, thoughts around the last two roster positions - and I don't think any of them are wrong.

On one hand, we have the idea that the Spurs may not want young guys at the end of the bench because they don't have the developmental resources to properly devote to them. Understandable, quite logical... makes sense.

On the other hand, we may not want experienced vets (like Kyle Anderson) at the end of the bench because they might not get any playing time behind the guys we do have (like Keldon, in this instance), so you're doing a disservice to them. Understandable, quite logical... makes sense.

However, the only space in the middle is filling out the rest of the roster with vets who just aren't very good (::phone rings in a dark La Cantera Resort hotel room, a groggy man answers, a cheerful Brian Wright is on the other end of the line:: "Hey Bryn, what you up to these days"?). That doesn't seem like a great solution. So, as long as someone (like Kyle Anderson) would be willing to accept whatever role the Spurs can offer... that seems like what we should do. After all, we do have to fill out the roster one way or another. I think Bassey would be fine in that third C/emergency backup role (and I get the feeling the Spurs maybe aren't ready to give up on him), and I'm hoping that last spot goes to a vet PF. I'm not going to sit here and bang the drum for Kyle Anderson anymore than I will for any other guy (in fact, I'd prefer Kevin Love simply for the entertainment value), but he'd be fine (if he'd accept the role). I think there will be enough opportunities for whomever that guy is, because history would suggest that at some point Sochan is likely to miss some games.

[Chinook]

saying "keldon will play power forward" is no less reassuring than telling you sochan will play center

theres no indication that either ingram/minix are ready for NBA minutes at all. and neither is currently under contract, NBA or two-way

just naming guys isnt really addressing the need

Keldon's career has gone into the shitter once he slimmed down and tried to be a wing. I guess he deserves that for taking advice from Draymond Green.

They wouldn't trade for Anderson because they wouldn't play him, and they have depth there because they have third-, fourth-, fifth- sixth- and seventh-string options already. That those guys don't inspire confidence in you is about what you'd expect.

[SpursFan86]

Keldon's career has gone into the shitter once he slimmed down and tried to be a wing. I guess he deserves that for taking advice from Draymond Green.

They wouldn't trade for Anderson because they wouldn't play him, and they have depth there because they have third-, fourth-, fifth- sixth- and seventh-string options already. That those guys don't inspire confidence in you is about what you'd expect.

Aside from Wemby covering minutes at the 4 (which, to be fair, I do think is part of the plan) all of our options have major question marks.

Sochan is not a proven commodity. I like him and am hopeful that he can be a legit quality rotation player but I don't think that's a given. Not to mention he's missed a considerable amount of time in 2 of his 3 seasons.

Barnes is really only a PF because in his older age he's lost a bunch of athleticism/quickness. He's an average-ish player and if he declined much further we're probably dipping into mediocre territory.

With Keldon's new size he really has no business playing PF. Unless you're expecting him to put on 20 pounds in the next few months I don't really think we should be banking on him giving us many minutes at the 4.

If we're really counting Bryant/Ingram/Minix as guys who have us covered at the 4...I don't know, that just seems disingenuous at that point :lol It's likely that at least 2 or all 3 of these guys are more G-Leaguers at this point than true NBA rotation pieces.

Essentially, IMO we have Wemby + 2 average-ish options with pretty big question marks. If the plan is to play Wemby 15-20 mpg at PF + Sochan takes a step forward/stays healthy + Barnes doesn't decline from last year, then sure, maybe we're in a fine spot. But I just don't really see how anyone would feel comfortable with this PF rotation or think that it's not an area that should be addressed.

[spurraider21]

Keldon's career has gone into the shitter once he slimmed down and tried to be a wing. I guess he deserves that for taking advice from Draymond Green.

They wouldn't trade for Anderson because they wouldn't play him, and they have depth there because they have third-, fourth-, fifth- sixth- and seventh-string options already. That those guys don't inspire confidence in you is about what you'd expect.
no, keldon's career has gone into the shitter since the team got out of the "we are actively trying to lose games and SOMEBODY has to score for us" mode

[scott]

Keldon's career has gone into the shitter once he slimmed down and tried to be a wing. I guess he deserves that for taking advice from Draymond Green.

They wouldn't trade for Anderson because they wouldn't play him, and they have depth there because they have third-, fourth-, fifth- sixth- and seventh-string options already. That those guys don't inspire confidence in you is about what you'd expect.

Leaving the trade aspect aside (because you usually don't trade for 3rd stringers, in general)... what's the argument? The Spurs shouldn't bring in any better players because they have plenty of shitty options already? How is that different than saying the Spurs shouldn't sign a third center because they already have a third string option (Sochan)... or even taking it to a more absurd ends in saying they also have fourth (Wesley) and fifth (Branham) string options at C? Those guys might not inspire confidence in you (nor should they, because they aren't even C's... but to me they're as much an option at C as Harrison Ingram is at PF).

It seems common around these parts (not by any one poster in particular, and I'll admit my own culpability to this charge) that we just shut down certain discourse with "well the Spurs aren't going to do that, so you shouldn't even discuss it". The fact is, the Spurs aren't going to do 90%+ of the stuff talked about here, but we still share our opinion of what we think the Spurs should do.

The fact you think the Spurs are well covered (the most covered, in fact) at PF is your opinion, but it is just that. It's certainly reasonable for others to be of the opinion it is in fact our least covered position (which also just be an opinion). My opinion is that we don't actually have any viable true PF options on our roster. Sochan and Barnes are wings, and Bryant isn't yet a viable NBA player. But... that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. And certainly I know that Barnes and Sochan will in fact be playing PF for us a quite considerable amount of minutes this season.

[RC_Drunkford]

I know, I was just making a (bad) joke.

Kyle would certainly be a luxury as a deep bench guy, probably does not align with his career goals and ambitions though, and while I'd play him over Keldon (as a deep bench PF, that is) you're probably correct that the Spurs may not.

There are some interesting, yet conflicting, thoughts around the last two roster positions - and I don't think any of them are wrong.

On one hand, we have the idea that the Spurs may not want young guys at the end of the bench because they don't have the developmental resources to properly devote to them. Understandable, quite logical... makes sense.

On the other hand, we may not want experienced vets (like Kyle Anderson) at the end of the bench because they might not get any playing time behind the guys we do have (like Keldon, in this instance), so you're doing a disservice to them. Understandable, quite logical... makes sense.

However, the only space in the middle is filling out the rest of the roster with vets who just aren't very good (::phone rings in a dark La Cantera Resort hotel room, a groggy man answers, a cheerful Brian Wright is on the other end of the line:: "Hey Bryn, what you up to these days"?). That doesn't seem like a great solution. So, as long as someone (like Kyle Anderson) would be willing to accept whatever role the Spurs can offer... that seems like what we should do. After all, we do have to fill out the roster one way or another. I think Bassey would be fine in that third C/emergency backup role (and I get the feeling the Spurs maybe aren't ready to give up on him), and I'm hoping that last spot goes to a vet PF. I'm not going to sit here and bang the drum for Kyle Anderson anymore than I will for any other guy (in fact, I'd prefer Kevin Love simply for the entertainment value), but he'd be fine (if he'd accept the role). I think there will be enough opportunities for whomever that guy is, because history would suggest that at some point Sochan is likely to miss some games.

you know the third option would be to sign someone who's better than those players and make some of the scrubs that were in the rotation prior, third stringers. That option seems too far gone now...:depressed

[scott]

you know the third option would be to sign someone who's better than those players and make some of the scrubs that were in the rotation prior, third stringers. That option seems too far gone now...:depressed

Yeah, that's what I was getting at in my last post. I don't see the logic in passing on better options because you have shitty options already. But... I do understand that the Spurs like to do this "for the culture"

[spurraider21]

Leaving the trade aspect aside (because you usually don't trade for 3rd stringers, in general)... what's the argument? The Spurs shouldn't bring in any better players because they have plenty of shitty options already? How is that different than saying the Spurs shouldn't sign a third center because they already have a third string option (Sochan)... or even taking it to a more absurd ends in saying they also have fourth (Wesley) and fifth (Branham) string options at C? Those guys might not inspire confidence in you (nor should they, because they aren't even C's... but to me they're as much an option at C as Harrison Ingram is at PF).

It seems common around these parts (not by any one poster in particular, and I'll admit my own culpability to this charge) that we just shut down certain discourse with "well the Spurs aren't going to do that, so you shouldn't even discuss it". The fact is, the Spurs aren't going to do 90%+ of the stuff talked about here, but we still share our opinion of what we think the Spurs should do.

The fact you think the Spurs are well covered (the most covered, in fact) at PF is your opinion, but it is just that. It's certainly reasonable for others to be of the opinion it is in fact our least covered position (which also just be an opinion). My opinion is that we don't actually have any viable true PF options on our roster. Sochan and Barnes are wings, and Bryant isn't yet a viable NBA player. But... that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. And certainly I know that Barnes and Sochan will in fact be playing PF for us a quite considerable amount of minutes this season.
this defeats the purpose of sports messageboard and forums

[sfernald]

Seems like jazz are just giving away all their vets. Would anyone be interested in Markennen straight up for contracts of KJ and Barnes?

[exstatic]

Seems like jazz are just giving away all their vets. Would anyone be interested in Markennen straight up for contracts of KJ and Barnes?

No. His contract is too much. We’d be under apron pressure in 2-3 years instead of 5.

[scott]

No. His contract is too much. We’d be under apron pressure in 2-3 years instead of 5.

If the cost of Lauri was merely KJ and Barnes, the Spurs could undoubtedly figure things out in 2-3 years.

But... I don't think Lauri would realistically ever get that cheap to acquire.

[Mr. Body]

If the cost of Lauri was merely KJ and Barnes, the Spurs could undoubtedly figure things out in 2-3 years.

But... I don't think Lauri would realistically ever get that cheap to acquire.

Utah would be ecstatic to get rid of him at this point. That contract was a miserable idea. It's kind of hilarious that the Warriors hung onto Kuminga when they could have had Markannen and Utah was demanding Kuminga in the first place.

[spurraider21]

warriors keeping kuminga is magnitudes worse a decision than the jazz keeping lauri imo

[Mr. Body]

warriors keeping kuminga is magnitudes worse a decision than the jazz keeping lauri imo

They're both pretty bad. I think there's some market for Kuminga, since he'll be cheaper as a contract than Markannen. I don't think Utah will ever get off Lauri, or at not until the contract starts winding down. I really don't know if teams will give maxxes to just pretty good players going forward. But we'll see what the Spurs do with Fox. They have their opportunity to fuck up.

[spurraider21]

They're both pretty bad. I think there's some market for Kuminga, since he'll be cheaper as a contract than Markannen. I don't think Utah will ever get off Lauri, or at not until the contract starts winding down. I really don't know if teams will give maxxes to just pretty good players going forward. But we'll see what the Spurs do with Fox. They have their opportunity to fuck up.
lauri is overpaid but at least hes good and an all star caliber player. im not even sure kuminga is good

[Chinook]

Aside from Wemby covering minutes at the 4 (which, to be fair, I do think is part of the plan) all of our options have major question marks.


Leaving the trade aspect aside (because you usually don't trade for 3rd stringers, in general)... what's the argument? The Spurs shouldn't bring in any better players because they have plenty of shitty options already?

The argument isn't that the Spurs can't or shouldn't do better than Barnes as the starter and ideally put some pressure on Sochan to improve. That's that I see a lot of arguments for bringing in an additional PF who they expect (not would prefer, which I think is valid, but expect) to get minutes while Barnes and Sochan are on the roster. It's like the people who resisted considering Barnes as the main ballast in a Collins trade because "Then the Spurs would be trading one shooter for another" as if Barnes would still be in the rotation anyway. So for me, the goal has to be to improve OVER Barnes and Sochan, not get a worse player than them and make the logjam even worse. As I stated before, I really don't see a lot of minutes in the rotation for a new guy unless folks like Barnes or Johnson are outgoing. If you're looking for a deep-bench forward, then look for that kind of player and don't pay $9 Million for them.

[TD 21]

This debate has bogged down/devolved into a semantical one.

The facts are as follows: Even if Sochan also lacks ideal strength for a four, he's the only true one the roster, but his defensive versatility/aptitude (at least in relation to the alternatives) is needed from 1-4 depending on the matchup and they don't have a single credible two-way option to man the position.

His greatest strength won't be as useful off the bench and Vassell-Barnes is obviously severely undersized for a starting forward duo, which is why I wonder if the book isn't closed on him reverting to starting over Castle.

That alignment also makes sense of the previous Yabusele interest.



I think the FO has done a PHENOMENAL job. Im just nitpicking the fringes here because I want them to be sharks and turn over every single little stone for opportunities. But as a whole? They have been really damn good and Im very happy with what they have done last 5 years and now.

Even if I am nitpicking (like here) I think keeping big picture in mind is warranted and they have earned trust (especially Brian)

Phenomenal is an overstatement, but otherwise same. That's what I'm saying with the inability to admit wrong/cheapness.

Branham and Wesley are obviously busts, but at least the latter (maybe the do the former a solid) is probable to return just because its convenient.

Between that, the constant selling off of current 2nds and lack of churn of two-ways, they don't even give themselves a chance to be a team that finds the next needle in a haystack.

[Chinook]

no, keldon's career has gone into the shitter since the team got out of the "we are actively trying to lose games and SOMEBODY has to score for us" mode

You'd think that, but he started falling off while the Spurs were tanking for Wemby. They were definitely still in the actively trying to lose games mode in 2022-2023, and that was far and away the worst season of Keldon's career so far. I just don't think folks realize how much losing weight hurt him. He went from being an undersized PF who could at least have some advantages of his opponents to being an undersized and slow wing. Losing the weight might have been good for his health, but him leaning into his girth and learning more big-man techniques would have been better for his individual performance. But of course, the Spurs have to turn every prospect into a dribble-drive ball-dominant wing. The same enshittification that happened to Vassell and that slowed down Sochan's development also happened to Keldon. In a better world, he's a viable energy big off the bench

[Chinook]

His greatest strength won't be as useful off the bench and Vassell-Barnes is obviously severely undersized for a starting forward duo, which is why I wonder if the book isn't closed on him reverting to starting over Castle.

I still like Fox, Harper, Vassell, Sochan, Wembanyama as the starting five going into the year. I think Harper would benefit himself and the team if he started his career as a shooting-guard. I do think Barnes will start until he can't, though, and I don't love the Sochan/Barnes starting duo. That's even more true given the four guards the Spurs will want to play. This is a rough sketch of a possible rotation.

*Fox -- 32 (32 PG)
*Harper -- 24 (24 SG)
Castle -- 28 (16 PG, 12 SG)
Champagnie -- 8 (8 SG)
*Vassell -- 30 (4 SG, 26 SF)
Johnson -- 18 (18 SF)
*Sochan -- 28 (4 SF, 24 PF)
Barnes -- 20 (20 PF)
*Wembanyama -- 32 (4 PF, 28 C)
Kornet --20 (20 C)

The Spurs bypassed their chances to make substantial upgrades at the moment. The rotation looks pretty locked in, though the distribution of minutes and potential starters may still change. If the team isn't going to bring in a guy who is either a decent prospect or who will unseat one of those 10 players, they should be cheap depth.

[spurraider21]

i dont mind the sochan/barnes forward pairing in concept. if people think Barnes is too slow to defend wings and needs to defend 4's... that works since sochan does his best work against 2/3 types anyway. the problem to me is i dont know how playable sochan is with a backcourt that struggles with outside shooting.

if you were starting Fox/Vassell/Barnes/Sochan/Wemby i think it could work... but i dont like having neither of Castle/Harper starting.

i agree with chinook that Harper spending more time at the 2 would be beneficial to him. his big swing skill, even as a lead guard, is going to be his shooting anyway. let his emphasis early on be his improvement with footwork, repositioning, shooting, etc. its not like SGs dont handle the ball in our offense. we saw castle get plenty of lead time even when playing alongside Paul last year

[DPG21920]

Love it. I said I thought spurs should move on from guys like Blake and Branham and they do it. Smart move.

[CGD]

Love it. I said I thought spurs should move on from guys like Blake and Branham and they do it. Smart move.

EVERYONE here said they should move on from those guys, lol

[DPG21920]

EVERYONE here said they should move on from those guys, lol

And? I didnt say my opinion was unique. I said I love that they actually did it.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

And? I didnt say my opinion was unique. I said I love that they actually did it.

We’re collectively getting better at understanding how NBA works and what deals are logical and feasible, instead of delusional. A ton of other boards have it the other way around and are thus unreadable.

Now, half of ST are crazy enough to think they’re smarter than actual GMs but if they’re made one and had to negotiate a deal they’d trade Luka Doncic for some vibes and vague defense wins championship promises. Ok, not a good example. But they might easily be talked into trading an unprotected first from a bad team to move up 10 spots in the draft… Holy shit , we are qualified aren’t we? :lol

[DPG21920]

We’re collectively getting better at understanding how NBA works and what deals are logical and feasible, instead of delusional. A ton of other boards have it the other way around and are thus unreadable.

Now, half of ST are crazy enough to think they’re smarter than actual GMs but if they’re made one and had to negotiate a deal they’d trade Luka Doncic for some vibes and vague defense wins championship promises. Ok, not a good example. But they might easily be talked into trading an unprotected first from a bad team to move up 10 spots in the draft… Holy shit , we are qualified aren’t we? :lol

Im pretty confident (assuming I had smart people in place to really help me navigate CBA) that I would be ok or an improvement over 5 teams at least lol

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Im pretty confident (assuming I had smart people in place to really help me navigate CBA) that I would be ok or an improvement over 5 teams at least lol

If I had to negotiate with a real GM I imagine he’d talk his way into getting my best player, best pick and my lunch money as well. So I’d default into declining any trades that don’t come from my team. Which means I’d be like the Chicago/Orlando GMs and not make player trades for years.

Then I’d let the scouting team propose draft picks and when free agency comes I’d probably waste every cent like a drunken sailor on day one. Then I’d get fired and collect some cash.

Still a better job than some actual GMs, you’re correct lol

[DPG21920]

If I had to negotiate with a real GM I imagine he’d talk his way into getting my best player, best pick and my lunch money as well. So I’d default into declining any trades that don’t come from my team. Which means I’d be like the Chicago/Orlando GMs and not make player trades for years.

Then I’d let the scouting team propose draft picks and when free agency comes I’d probably waste every cent like a drunken sailor on day one. Then I’d get fired and collect some cash.

Still a better job than some actual GMs, you’re correct lol

Bar is low. And on ST, even when you are directionally correct in advance you get people angry and upset because it was a week late or exact details weren’t the same.


All good - we simply enjoy our team and watching games and interacting nonetheless

[scott]

If I had to negotiate with a real GM I imagine he’d talk his way into getting my best player, best pick and my lunch money as well. So I’d default into declining any trades that don’t come from my team. Which means I’d be like the Chicago/Orlando GMs and not make player trades for years.

Then I’d let the scouting team propose draft picks and when free agency comes I’d probably waste every cent like a drunken sailor on day one. Then I’d get fired and collect some cash.

Still a better job than some actual GMs, you’re correct lol

I'd have Charlotte either 1) in the playoffs or 2) run out of town and moved to Seattle/Las Vegas within 3 years, no doubt :lol

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I'd have Charlotte either 1) in the playoffs or 2) run out of town and moved to Seattle/Las Vegas within 3 years, no doubt :lol

Yeah same, although with a 99% chance for the latter.

Real talk, one of the most difficult parts in team building is probably to make moves to improve in a way that doesn’t cap the team’s ceiling and flexibility. In this sense Brian Wright is doing a good job so far.

[DPG21920]

For sure - most fans only operate with half the equation: basketball. But theres a very real business side to this as well. So have to take all that into account in real world vs what fans want to see/do

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

For sure - most fans only operate with half the equation: basketball. But theres a very real business side to this as well. So have to take all that into account in real world vs what fans want to see/do

The business side is exponentially more difficult than we could even imagine, as we operate on a simple basketball fan level, as you pointed out. In reality these GMs have budgets, specific goals, probably conflicting goals and messages coming from different high level executives, etc. They’re also real human beings working for money and looking for a raise or a new contract, so they’d sometimes do short term quick wins to meet expectations, otherwise they’d have their contract expire (if they’re not fired) and no one else would look at hiring them.

On top of it all they have to appease executives, players and agents so that they even have the opportunity to make certain moves, and this is an incredibly difficult line to walk. Not to mention having to navigate internal intrigues and people looking to bring you down so they get more opportunity for themselves. There’s a serious game of thrones going on in every structure like this.

I can see all of this in the ordinary corporate world, with significantly lower stakes, so I can only imagine what it is in a real NBA billion dollar franchise.

[DPG21920]

Which makes it all the more perplexing that so many dummies get paid to run teams :lol

[scott]

The business side is exponentially more difficult than we could even imagine, as we operate on a simple basketball fan level, as you pointed out. In reality these GMs have budgets, specific goals, probably conflicting goals and messages coming from different high level executives, etc. They’re also real human beings working for money and looking for a raise or a new contract, so they’d sometimes do short term quick wins to meet expectations, otherwise they’d have their contract expire (if they’re not fired) and no one else would look at hiring them.

On top of it all they have to appease executives, players and agents so that they even have the opportunity to make certain moves, and this is an incredibly difficult line to walk. Not to mention having to navigate internal intrigues and people looking to bring you down so they get more opportunity for themselves. There’s a serious game of thrones going on in every structure like this.

I can see all of this in the ordinary corporate world, with significantly lower stakes, so I can only imagine what it is in a real NBA billion dollar franchise.

Having worked in a corporate setting for an organization significantly larger and more valuable than the Spurs (or any NBA team for that matter), I imagine the corporate politics are insane. And having led (smaller) organizations with ultimate responsibility, the “business side” is probably the easiest part of it. Managing those relationships, keeping key stakeholders with diverging interests happy, balancing short term wins against the long term objectives, that’s the tough part like you said.

So while on one hand I don’t like how the Spurs FO has what appears (from the outside looking in) like they have no accountability because there appears (again from the outside looking in) like there are no expectations… but on the other hand I can appreciate how it doesn’t force our FO to make short sighted decisions in order to meet those immediate term objectives at the expense of a longer term vision.

[DPG21920]

The ol’ classical “trade off” scenario

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Having worked in a corporate setting for an organization significantly larger and more valuable than the Spurs (or any NBA team for that matter), I imagine the corporate politics are insane. And having led (smaller) organizations with ultimate responsibility, the “business side” is probably the easiest part of it. Managing those relationships, keeping key stakeholders with diverging interests happy, balancing short term wins against the long term objectives, that’s the tough part like you said.

Yep exactly. I currently work for a company that’s worth more than all NBA teams combined and although I’m not on a high enough level, due to the nature of my work I see the politics on every level and they’re insane. Managing relationships, like you said, sounds simple enough but in reality it is a science in itself.


So while on one hand I don’t like how the Spurs FO has what appears (from the outside looking in) like they have no accountability because there appears (again from the outside looking in) like there are no expectations… but on the other hand I can appreciate how it doesn’t force our FO to make short sighted decisions in order to meet those immediate term objectives at the expense of a longer term vision.

This is a very important point and one that I’ll always defend the Spurs FO about - they have developed a structure that allows them to operate with a long term vision and this is incredibly rare. Sure, it has some drawbacks but overall it’s a huge positive.

The other part is treating players, agents, everyone with respect and building these relationships, instead of looking at everyone as an asset. These things pay off eventually.

[exstatic]

warriors keeping kuminga is magnitudes worse a decision than the jazz keeping lauri imo

Teams not wanting to trade with Ainge is approaching meme level.

[scott]

Teams not wanting to trade with Ainge is approaching meme level.

I'm hoping the Jazz will put out an offer sheet for Grimes to completely fuck over the 76ers, just to cement Ainge's reputation as an asshole, and cause 29 other GMs to never want to deal with him again.

[CGD]

Teams not wanting to trade with Ainge is approaching meme level.

Def think this is a thing. Plus, he’s got to sell being in Utah on top of it all.

[mystargtr34]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6479979/2025/07/08/detroit-pistons-offseason-transactions/

Athletic piece here on what the Pistons could do with their trade exception they got for Schroeder. Posting here because it discusses a few players the Spurs should be interested in including PJ Washington, Herb Jones, and the guy they just traded for.

Detroit Pistons roster reset: Who can they target with their trade exception?
Jan 31, 2025; Detroit, Michigan, USA; Detroit Pistons guard Cade Cunningham (2) dribbles defended by Dallas Mavericks forward P.J. Washington (25) in the second half at Little Caesars Arena. Mandatory Credit: Rick Osentoski-Imagn Images

Hunter Patterson
Hunter Patterson
July 9, 2025Updated July 10, 2025 12:24 am GMT+8
51

Just over a week into offseason free agency, Detroit Pistons president of basketball operations Trajan Langdon has kept his word. On two separate occasions, since the conclusion of the Pistons’ playoff push, Langdon has said his offseason approach would be to “stay patient” and “not be super aggressive.”

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Since teams could begin contract negotiations with all free agents on June 30, Detroit’s roster has been retooled without Langdon having to mortgage the future of any current Piston.

Detroit completed a sign-and-trade that sent Dennis Schröder and a 2029 least favorable second-round pick to the Sacramento Kings in return for a traded player exception for a little more than $14 million and a 2026 second-round pick. Tim Hardaway Jr. signed with the Denver Nuggets on a veteran’s minimum, a projected $3,634,153 next season.

Schröder’s trade exception can be used for a full year after the trade is finalized with the league office, likely giving the Pistons until early July of 2026 to utilize this exception, depending on when it was officially finalized.

Before Malik Beasley was named as a person of interest in a federal gambling investigation, the Pistons had been in talks with Beasley and his agent leading up to June 30. Detroit was prepared to offer Beasley a three-year, $42 million contract that included a team option for the last year, according to previous reporting by The Athletic.

The Pistons began their free-agent acquisitions by agreeing with big man Paul Reed to a two-year, $11 million contract. Detroit then signed guard Caris LeVert to a two-year, $29 million deal. The team officially announced LeVert’s signing Tuesday, but has yet to announce Reed’s.

The Pistons’ most recent offseason move was completing another sign-and-trade, bringing Duncan Robinson to Detroit on a three-year, $48 million contract and sending Simone Fontecchio to the Miami Heat.


Detroit also officially signed its 2025 second-round pick, Chaz Lanier on Monday.

In theory, Jaden Ivey should assume Hardaway’s role as Cade Cunningham’s backcourt mate. LeVert is a veteran who is five inches taller and 30 pounds heavier than Schröder and offers the Pistons another option as a secondary ballhandler off the bench. Robinson didn’t finish second in the league in made 3s as Beasley did last season, but he has made at least 185 triples in five of his seven seasons in the association.

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Detroit has 14 players on its roster as of Tuesday morning, including two two-way players, now that LeVert’s signing is finalized. Assuming Reed’s deal is finalized soon, the Pistons would then have 15 total players on their roster including two-way players.

So, what should Langdon and Detroit’s front office do with their remaining traded player exception (TPE)? Danny Leroux, The Athletic’s cap expert, noted the Pistons should have $14,104,00 to spend and get an extra $100,000 wiggle room on top of the TPE.

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Let’s take a look at some players, with either expiring contracts or with two years left on their deals, who Detroit can explore trading for without having to make any long-term commitments.

P.J. Washington, Dallas Mavericks

Salary, 2025-26: $14,152,174
Age at the start of next season: 27 years old
Height, weight, wingspan: 6-7, 230 pounds, 7-3
2024-25 stats: 14.7 points on 45.3 percent shooting and 38.1 percent from 3 on 4.2 attempts, 7.8 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 1.1 blocks in 32.2 minutes per game in 57 games
Although Washington has the highest annual average value on his contract of any player listed, he has the potential to be the best fit for the Pistons as someone who meshes with Detroit’s core age and timeline.

Washington is an undersized stretch forward who makes up for his lack of height by boasting the longest wingspan on this list. Despite spending his first four-and-a-half seasons on a Charlotte Hornets team in a cycle of losing, Washington still has a defensive box plus-minus of zero.

He’s a versatile defender who can guard on the perimeter as well as hold his own in the paint with the bigger, more imposing bodies of big men in the NBA. Being a career 35.8 percent shooter from long range on 4.9 attempts makes Washington a prime candidate to space the floor for the Pistons, which is a desired skillset on a team with Cunningham.

Given Washington’s defensive versatility, age, NBA Finals experience, shooting ability and grittiness, he’d be a formidable candidate for Detroit’s traded player exception.

Herb Jones, New Orleans Pelicans

Salaries, 2025-26, 2026-27: $13,937,574, $14,898,786
Age at the start of next season: 27 years old
Height, weight, wingspan: 6-7, 206 pounds, 7-feet
2024-25 stats: 10.3 points on 43.6 percent and 30.6 percent from 3 on 3.6 attempts, 3.9 rebounds, 3.3 assists, 1.9 steals in 32.4 minutes per game during 20 games
Jones is another player who, like Washington, would help anchor the defense off the bench and potentially late in games. Jones hasn’t yet proven to be the scoring threat Washington is, but Jones’ career 36.6 percent shooting from long range is higher than Washington’s, though Jones takes two fewer per game. Jones also has a career plus-1.4 defensive box plus-minus to show for his defensive capability.

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Langdon selected Jones with the 35th pick in 2021, so the familiarity between the two stems back to Jones’ collegiate career at Alabama.

During Jones’ 2023-24 campaign, his last full season, he averaged 11.0 points on 49.8 percent from the field, 41.8 percent from 3 and 86.7 percent from the free-throw line. He nearly achieved the 50/40/90 shooting splits that separate good from great shooters, albeit on low volume, and he wasn’t the focal point of the New Orleans Pelicans’ offensive game plan.

Jones’ grit is different than Washington’s in that he’s quieter and more reserved than Washington, whose on-court persona is more extroverted. Jones’ mindset is one Pistons fans and Detroit coach J.B. Bickerstaff would also appreciate and use while molding Jones to fit Detroit’s style.

Kelly Olynyk, Washington Wizards

Salary, 2025-26: $13,445,122
Age at the start of next season: 34 years old
Height, weight, wingspan: 6-11, 240 pounds, 6-11
2024-25 stats: 8.7 points on 50 percent and 41.8 percent from 3 on 1.8 attempts, 4.7 rebounds, 2.9 assists during 44 games
Olynyk spent time in Detroit during the 2021-22 season, although only for 40 games. Before that stint and even after, Olynyk has shown the ability to be another stretch forward who has shot 37.1 percent from 3-point range on 3.1 attempts per contest.

His biggest asset since being in the association has been his willingness to take and make shots from behind the arc, which keeps defenders honest when guarding his teammates. Olynyk is no stranger to creating for his teammates out of dribble-handoff actions, which have become a staple in the Pistons’ offense.

Olynyk would be a great candidate to run pick-and-pop action with Cunningham to pull opposing defenses further from the paint. He has his limitations defensively, but most defensive lapses coming from Olynyk won’t be for lack of effort or heart. Despite those limitations, Olynyk has a career defensive box plus-minus of 0.8, with his rookie season being his only as a minus at minus-0.3.

The veteran is worth a look given his regular-season and playoff experience, expiring contract and offensive versatility.

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Brandon Clarke, Memphis Grizzlies

Salaries, 2025-26, 2026-27: $12,500,000, $12,500,000
Age at the start of next season: 29 years old
Height, weight, wingspan: 6-8, 215 pounds, 6-8
2024-25 stats: 8.3 points on 62.1 percent, 5.1 rebounds, 1.0 assists in 18.9 minutes during 64 games
Clarke is another player on the list who could fill a valuable role for the Pistons as a backup power forward with postseason experience. Clarke, unlike the aforementioned players, does not offer outside shooting. He’s made 51 triples in his career with 43 of those coming during his first two seasons.

That said, Clarke has averaged 10.2 points on 60.6 percent from the field and 5.5 boards per game for his career. Clarke brings a similar rugged, hard-nosed mindset that would fit well in Detroit.

Clarke has a knack for creating second possessions for his team based on his ability to consistently crash the offensive glass. Considering Robinson, LeVert and Holland could assume the majority of the second-unit scoring duties, Clarke could be the player to master the intangibles that don’t show up on the stat sheet.

Goga Bitadze, Orlando Magic

Salaries, 2025-26, 2026-27: $8,333,333, $7,608,696
Age at the start of next season: 26 years old
Height, weight, wingspan: 6-11, 250 pounds, 7-2
2024-25 stats: 7.2 points on 61.1 percent, 6.6 rebounds, 2.0 assists in 20.4 minutes during 70 games
Bitadze rounds out the list as a player who, like Clarke, won’t offer outside shooting, but has shown flashes of playmaking ability. At nearly 7 feet tall, Bitadze is a big body who would present the Pistons with another formidable big with a variety of skills.

Like Jalen Duren and Olynyk, Bitadze seems comfortable in dribble-handoff actions. This would potentially help Bitadze transition to Detroit’s style of play quicker, as he’s shown the vision to occasionally get teammates open looks on backdoor cuts. Although Bitadze has never averaged more than seven points per game, he’s also been limited to a career-best 20.4 minutes last season.

Bitadze’s size doesn’t make it the easiest for him to show the mobility necessary to be a winning defender, but he’s a career plus-2.8 when it comes to defensive box plus-minus. Bitadze could also be a force on the offensive glass given the opportunity, as he averaged 2.4 offensive rebounds last year.

The big man would be the cheapest salary of these options next season with possibly the most untapped potential considering his age, skillset and limited usage thus far.

(Photo of Cade Cunningham and P.J. Washington: Rick Osentoski-Imagn Images)

[TD 21]

I still like Fox, Harper, Vassell, Sochan, Wembanyama as the starting five going into the year. I think Harper would benefit himself and the team if he started his career as a shooting-guard. I do think Barnes will start until he can't, though, and I don't love the Sochan/Barnes starting duo. That's even more true given the four guards the Spurs will want to play. This is a rough sketch of a possible rotation.

*Fox -- 32 (32 PG)
*Harper -- 24 (24 SG)
Castle -- 28 (16 PG, 12 SG)
Champagnie -- 8 (8 SG)
*Vassell -- 30 (4 SG, 26 SF)
Johnson -- 18 (18 SF)
*Sochan -- 28 (4 SF, 24 PF)
Barnes -- 20 (20 PF)
*Wembanyama -- 32 (4 PF, 28 C)
Kornet --20 (20 C)

The Spurs bypassed their chances to make substantial upgrades at the moment. The rotation looks pretty locked in, though the distribution of minutes and potential starters may still change. If the team isn't going to bring in a guy who is either a decent prospect or who will unseat one of those 10 players, they should be cheap depth.

I don't like Harper starting right now because they need him to be the offensive "engine" off the bench and while its obviously possible to double, that would require 30 or more mpg, which isn't happening.

If they play Castle alongside Harper off the bench, they'll both be in combo guard roles.

The problem with your starting five and any that doesn't contain Barnes/Sochan as the starting forward duo is, when Sochan is defending the POA 1-3, none of Vassell/Castle/Harper are capable of defending the 4.

[mudyez]

Just a simple question a friend asked me:

If we could straight up turn Vassell into the '26 #10 pick, would we do it?
In other words: Whats Vassells trade value?

[Ariel]

Just a simple question a friend asked me:

If we could straight up turn Vassell into the '26 #10 pick, would we do it?
In other words: Whats Vassells trade value?
Tell your friend that, in any trade proposal, at the moment Vassell is more likely to be rejected even as filler by the other team than he is to getting you pick 10 in next year's draft.

PS: If Sacramento had him pegged as a positive contract, Spurs missed an opportunity by not including him, I'd rather have the pick/s and cap space.

[mo7888]

Just a simple question a friend asked me:

If we could straight up turn Vassell into the '26 #10 pick, would we do it?
In other words: Whats Vassells trade value?

Answer to the first question is yes.

The second question is more difficult. To alot of GM"s it's a negative value, but there are probably a couple that view him as positive. We should have RC but those GM's drinks...

[cutewizard]

Trading Vassell for a 3D forward would be the icing on the cake

[tbdog]

Trading Vassell for a 3D forward would be the icing on the cake

Come up with some trade scenarios that makes sense for both teams. I looked. I can't find a realistic one for one deal.

[venitian navigator]

Indiana without Halliburton is gonna have a transition year... They could be tempted to sell Siakam (now 31 with 3 years remaining). I just checked that Siakam for KJ, HB and JS works...

[tbdog]

Indiana without Halliburton is gonna have a transition year... They could be tempted to sell Siakam (now 31 with 3 years remaining). I just checked that Siakam for KJ, HB and JS works...


Eh, a non shooter. His skill set is not for us.