Spurs trade ideas

[montgod]

I think Toronto makes sense and can put together a great package compared to most teams. Barnes + JaKobe + #9 + 3 more firsts and 2 swaps

Fully agree.

[cd98]

I kind of like a trade being proposed between Chicago, Denver, and the Spurs.

Denver: Coby White, Kevin Huerter, Harrison Barnes

SAS: Michael Porter, Jr.

Chi: Keldon Johnson, Russell Westbrook, Zeke Nnaji, SA pick 38, Den 2031 1st, Min 2028 2nd (Via SA)

Fixes our bad three point shooting while only giving up Barnes, Johnson, and some useless seconds. Then we just need a backup big and we are set.

[LeBowen]

Yeah, I did a mock offseason in 2K yesterday when I was bored and TOR ended up being my favorite Giannis destination. TOR just has so many middling 2nd/3rd option kind of guys, they need a consolidation trade. Kind of the same concept as Houston - they just don't have the same warchest of assets as Houston, but I do think they can make it work with FRPs and swaps. The Raptors love their Canadian players, but I think they'd also be embracing of a foreign superstar.

The issue is that Bucks don't want those 2nd/3rd option guys.
They either want young players with 1st option potential or high value picks.

I'd rather trade for Beal's awful contract expiring in 2 seasons than have Scottie Barnes earn $50M in 2030.

[vy65]

I kind of like a trade being proposed between Chicago, Denver, and the Spurs.

Denver: Coby White, Kevin Huerter, Harrison Barnes

SAS: Michael Porter, Jr.

Chi: Keldon Johnson, Russell Westbrook, Zeke Nnaji, SA pick 38, Den 2031 1st, Min 2028 2nd (Via SA)

Fixes our bad three point shooting while only giving up Barnes, Johnson, and some useless seconds. Then we just need a backup big and we are set.

Wtf, that’s a terrible trade. MPJ is hot garbage on a terrible contract.

[scott]

The issue is that Bucks don't want those 2nd/3rd option guys.
They either want young players with 1st option potential or high value picks.

I'd rather trade for Beal's awful contract expiring in 2 seasons than have Scottie Barnes earn $50M in 2030.

Barnes will only be 22% of the cap in 2030. Not a big deal.

I think TOR would heavily consider Scottie + Barrett + Walter + #9 + as many picks and swaps as TOR can legally provide.

[montgod]

I kind of like a trade being proposed between Chicago, Denver, and the Spurs.

Denver: Coby White, Kevin Huerter, Harrison Barnes

SAS: Michael Porter, Jr.

Chi: Keldon Johnson, Russell Westbrook, Zeke Nnaji, SA pick 38, Den 2031 1st, Min 2028 2nd (Via SA)

Fixes our bad three point shooting while only giving up Barnes, Johnson, and some useless seconds. Then we just need a backup big and we are set.

Definitely a pass. MPJ wouldn't pass anyone's physical except DEN. Besides, Pop would reject solely based on MPJ's political stance lol

[cd98]

Wtf, that’s a terrible trade. MPJ is hot garbage on a terrible contract.

Ah the dude is a floor spreader. You aren't giving up anything that hurts you. And it's hard to get shooters on the cheap. I think this is a more realistic trade then some of the other things I see that are suggested.

[RC_Drunkford]

big man basketball is back

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GrKdMt9WgAES1l3?format=jpg&name=large

[LeBowen]

Barnes will only be 22% of the cap in 2030. Not a big deal.

I think TOR would heavily consider Scottie + Barrett + Walter + #9 + as many picks and swaps as TOR can legally provide.

If Bucks would consider that, then we should offer Devin+Keldon+Jeremy. :lol

[vy65]

Ah the dude is a floor spreader. You aren't giving up anything that hurts you. And it's hard to get shooters on the cheap. I think this is a more realistic trade then some of the other things I see that are suggested.

I misread the MIN28 SRP as a FRP. But it’s still an overpay as HB is better and a more valuable trade asset.

[scott]

If Bucks would consider that, then we should offer Devin+Keldon+Jeremy. :lol

For all the times you accuse others of being weird, you certainly have your moments as well.

[LeBowen]

For all the times you accuse others of being weird, you certainly have your moments as well.

And here was I, thinking you can spot when I'm not fully serious. :lol

But in all seriousness, I don't rate Scottie Barnes.
He's supposed to be an all-round player, but he's not really good at anything. Career 30% 3pt shooter, 27% this season.
He's obviously a tier below Keldon, but you have to agree there's some resemblance between two of them and putting up empty stats on bad rosters.

Then there's all the autism memes stuff, he's not doing himself any favors in some situations.

[Ocotillo]

big man basketball is back

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GrKdMt9WgAES1l3?format=jpg&name=large

Ironic that both Celtic options have a high likelihood of not existing next year.

[TD 21]

He’s a terrible fit, due to both space cadetiness and the fact that if his shot isn’t falling, he has nothing else to offer. He has no other basketball skills. If you want that kind of player, just go get Cam Johnson. He has deep playoff (Finals) experience, and costs about $43M over the next two seasons, not $78M. He also hasn’t had multiple back surgeries.

To be clear, despite looking the part, I'd lean towards Porter Jr. not being the Spurs type and the first iteration was more so my read on hypothetically what they'd be interested in doing if they were, while the second iteration was more so my read on hypothetically what the Nuggets would be interested in if they were.

He offers spacing at all times, decent rebounding/secondary rim protection and on a related note, the size/strength to credibly play the four, unlike Johnson.

Similar to Durant, with 8/9 out of the picture, I also don't see the package that would appeal to the Nets that's neither an over/under pay.

[DPG21920]

If spurs keep pick 2 and take Harper, Im all in on the Dev + 14 to BKY for pick 8 move.

Full re-set of Devs salary cleanly to clear up logjam and move up 6 spots simultaneously

[LeBowen]

If spurs keep pick 2 and take Harper, Im all in on the Dev + 14 to BKY for pick 8 move.

Full re-set of Devs salary cleanly to clear up logjam and move up 6 spots simultaneously

Nets have nothing on the roster, they want to take a swing and try to get the BPA.
Even if they rate Devin, they don't think he's going to be an all-star and moving down for a supporting cast player makes no sense if they don't have anyone he's going to support on the roster.
And if they go for Giannis or something, that #8 will be long gone.

[DPG21920]

Nets have nothing on the roster, they want to take a swing and try to get the BPA.
Even if they rate Devin, they don't think he's going to be an all-star and moving down for a supporting cast player makes no sense if they don't have anyone he's going to support on the roster.
And if they go for Giannis or something, that #8 will be long gone.

I can see it both ways. Of course I have no idea what BKY thinks of Dev but there are paths that make sense to me why BKY would like him. Especially if they have very small gap in prospects pick 8-14.

[LeBowen]

Not exactly the most appropriate topic, but I feel like we need to find a couple more solid contributors like Champagnie out of nothing.
If we take a look at conference finalists, I won't say those players are the difference makers, but it would be nice if our scouting department pulled a couple more players out of their asses like they did during the glory days.

OKC
Luguentz Dort - undrafted.
Aaron Wiggins - 55th pick.
Isaiah Joe - 49th pick and then cut by the Sixers after two seasons, OKC took a flyer on him.
Jaylin Williams - 34th pick.

Minnesota
Jaden McDaniels - 28th pick.
Naz Reid - undrafted.
NAW - an afterthought in Conley trade, had no value.

Knicks
Jalen Brunson - 33rd pick, surplus to requirements in Dallas, Knicks got their franchise player for nothing before anyone else thought he has that kind of potential.
Miles McBride - 36th pick.
Mitchell Robinson - 36th pick.

Pacers
Andrew Nembhard - 31st pick.
Obi Toppin - acquired for SRPs.

All of these players were acquired for next to nothing and are good enough to be in conference finalists rotations.
Obviously I don't expect Spurs to hit with the every SRP or a cheap trade, but it would be really nice if we could find another couple of players that are currently underappreciated.

[ginobilized]

If spurs keep pick 2 and take Harper, Im all in on the Dev + 14 to BKY for pick 8 move.

Full re-set of Devs salary cleanly to clear up logjam and move up 6 spots simultaneously

Probably less than 50/50 chance it appeals to BKY, but, it could be tremendous for us.
Who would you take with the #8 pick? Kon or Maluach if they are not gone? Might not be a significant difference between 8 and 14.

[objective]

I kind of like a trade being proposed between Chicago, Denver, and the Spurs.

Denver: Coby White, Kevin Huerter, Harrison Barnes

SAS: Michael Porter, Jr.

Chi: Keldon Johnson, Russell Westbrook, Zeke Nnaji, SA pick 38, Den 2031 1st, Min 2028 2nd (Via SA)

Fixes our bad three point shooting while only giving up Barnes, Johnson, and some useless seconds. Then we just need a backup big and we are set.

Don't know why Chicago would want that deal. White is one of their best players and just finished the season as the NBA Eastern Player of the Month winner. Nnaji is dead money and can't play, Westbrook would get released, and Keldon would have a hard time seeing the floor, for a Denver first and 2 seconds?

[exstatic]

I kind of like a trade being proposed between Chicago, Denver, and the Spurs.

Denver: Coby White, Kevin Huerter, Harrison Barnes

SAS: Michael Porter, Jr.

Chi: Keldon Johnson, Russell Westbrook, Zeke Nnaji, SA pick 38, Den 2031 1st, Min 2028 2nd (Via SA)

Fixes our bad three point shooting while only giving up Barnes, Johnson, and some useless seconds. Then we just need a backup big and we are set.

MPJ is a very expensive, damaged version of Cam Johnson. Just go get the cheaper version.

[scott]

I can see it both ways. Of course I have no idea what BKY thinks of Dev but there are paths that make sense to me why BKY would like him. Especially if they have very small gap in prospects pick 8-14.

I like to think of the BKN situation this way:

Take yourself back to the month before the 2022 draft, where we are picking #9. CHA is picking #15. They call up and offer #15 and 23 year old Miles Bridges (ignore any off-the-court related stuff for Bridges) for pick #9. Are you doing that deal? Bridges was CHA's leading scorer that season, averaging 20.2/7.0/3.8.

Dejounte was traded a week after that draft, but imagine we had traded him away before the draft. Would you do that hypothetical Bridges deal then? You've already committed to tanking... what does Bridges do for you? Doesn't he kind of just elevate you higher than you really want to be in your tank chase? And if doesn't, then why are you paying positive value for him?

I think Devin would actually be a great tank commander for BKN... but tanking teams aren't spending positive value, unless its for someone who's going to move them out of tanking and into serious contention. Is Devin that guy for BKN?

Now... if BKN gets Giannis, I think Devin makes a lot more sense for them (and for them to pay positive value for).

I've said this before, but I think the best case for us to move Devin for maximum value is to find a team who wants to compete and needs someone of Devin's profile. Find an equivalent scenario to when we traded DJM to ATL. Not in terms of the return (because DJM had a significantly higher value profile at the time of his trade), but in terms of the thought process that lead ATL to want to get him to begin with. We need to find a team with those common elements.

I can't think of a single scenario where a tanking team would want to give up positive value to get Devin and be locked into his contract (and I'm not even saying the contract is bad... just that a tanking team probably values flexibility more than a deal with 4/100 left on it). The only case I could maybe make is if that team thought they could showcase Devin to the point where they could flip him for more later.

[objective]

Dean Wade is my new secret under the radar guy to get. Glad to see more folks coming around.

Supposedly in analytics he's a very good defender, something about always executing the plan and no mistakes. Forgot what podcast I heard it on

[DPG21920]

Probably less than 50/50 chance it appeals to BKY, but, it could be tremendous for us.
Who would you take with the #8 pick? Kon or Maluach if they are not gone? Might not be a significant difference between 8 and 14.

Kon would be my first priority realistically. It’s more about Spurs definitely getting who they want + not paying 27M to Dev for what could be a very reduced role. The getting off the salary while getting + value (moving from 14 to 8) is the key.

I wouldn’t even mind trading 8 then for future pick (meaning they get better value for giving up 8 now vs 14 if their plan was to trade 14 anyways). Or using 8 + a future first to get another pick in top 5???

What if they can now trade Dev + 14 for pick 8. Then trade pick 8 + Spurs 29 for pick 4 or 5 if Edgecombe is there? I have no idea how Spurs view these guys or how much more they’d be willing to value Edgecombe over Kon and their willingness to pay a future first to move up from 8 to 5 for example. Just saying its a lot of possibilities

But if just keeping it simple I would absolutely love to do something like draft Harper then trade Dev + 14 for 8 and come away with Kon as well.

[scott]

Not exactly the most appropriate topic, but I feel like we need to find a couple more solid contributors like Champagnie out of nothing.
If we take a look at conference finalists, I won't say those players are the difference makers, but it would be nice if our scouting department pulled a couple more players out of their asses like they did during the glory days.

OKC
Luguentz Dort - undrafted.
Aaron Wiggins - 55th pick.
Isaiah Joe - 49th pick and then cut by the Sixers after two seasons, OKC took a flyer on him.
Jaylin Williams - 34th pick.

Minnesota
Jaden McDaniels - 28th pick.
Naz Reid - undrafted.
NAW - an afterthought in Conley trade, had no value.

Knicks
Jalen Brunson - 33rd pick, surplus to requirements in Dallas, Knicks got their franchise player for nothing before anyone else thought he has that kind of potential.
Miles McBride - 36th pick.
Mitchell Robinson - 36th pick.

Pacers
Andrew Nembhard - 31st pick.
Obi Toppin - acquired for SRPs.

All of these players were acquired for next to nothing and are good enough to be in conference finalists rotations.
Obviously I don't expect Spurs to hit with the every SRP or a cheap trade, but it would be really nice if we could find another couple of players that are currently underappreciated.

Good point. I want and hope the Spurs start taking the second round and our 2-way spots more seriously.

In addition to the teams you mentioned, you have teams like MEM who continue to stock their roster with SRPs, two-ways and UDFA's who become solid contributors. No, it hasn't amounted to success yet, but it's not because of their lack of depth.

OKC also has Ajay Mitchell, who was sitting there for us at 35 and 36 last year.

I'll give the team a pass up to date because maybe they just didn't have the resources available to devote to more projects... but now that things are getting more serious we shouldn't just piss away opportunities to fill up the talent pipeline.

[cd98]

Don't know why Chicago would want that deal. White is one of their best players and just finished the season as the NBA Eastern Player of the Month winner. Nnaji is dead money and can't play, Westbrook would get released, and Keldon would have a hard time seeing the floor, for a Denver first and 2 seconds?

Chicago is more of a rebuild. They'd want the first round draft pick and all that salary would go away. The question is do they want more for getting rid of contracts.

[cd98]

MPJ is a very expensive, damaged version of Cam Johnson. Just go get the cheaper version.

If you want Cam Johnson, you are going to need to cough up a bunch of first round picks per the asking price he had last year. In this trade, you give up no first round picks.

[DPG21920]

I like to think of the BKN situation this way:

Take yourself back to the month before the 2022 draft, where we are picking #9. CHA is picking #15. They call up and offer #15 and 23 year old Miles Bridges (ignore any off-the-court related stuff for Bridges) for pick #9. Are you doing that deal? Bridges was CHA's leading scorer that season, averaging 20.2/7.0/3.8.

Dejounte was traded a week after that draft, but imagine we had traded him away before the draft. Would you do that hypothetical Bridges deal then? You've already committed to tanking... what does Bridges do for you? Doesn't he kind of just elevate you higher than you really want to be in your tank chase? And if doesn't, then why are you paying positive value for him?

I think Devin would actually be a great tank commander for BKN... but tanking teams aren't spending positive value, unless its for someone who's going to move them out of tanking and into serious contention. Is Devin that guy for BKN?

Now... if BKN gets Giannis, I think Devin makes a lot more sense for them (and for them to pay positive value for).

I've said this before, but I think the best case for us to move Devin for maximum value is to find a team who wants to compete and needs someone of Devin's profile. Find an equivalent scenario to when we traded DJM to ATL. Not in terms of the return (because DJM had a significantly higher value profile at the time of his trade), but in terms of the thought process that lead ATL to want to get him to begin with. We need to find a team with those common elements.

I can't think of a single scenario where a tanking team would want to give up positive value to get Devin and be locked into his contract (and I'm not even saying the contract is bad... just that a tanking team probably values flexibility more than a deal with 4/100 left on it). The only case I could maybe make is if that team thought they could showcase Devin to the point where they could flip him for more later.

I can see it in BKY due to their cap situation. If they strike out on Giannis etc….they still need to spend money so Devs contract is functionally not relevant in that case. It becomes a question of “do we like this player and can we acquire him at value”

Moving back 6 spots to get a player of Devs caliber makes sense on many levels both on court and preserving value (future trade? Piece that’s already there for when you aren’t tanking you know you have filled etc…)

I see your point and think it makes sense overall but I do think BKY could do it since there is a salary floor they need to meet anyways. They literally have to spend the money so in that regard Dev is “free”…the only trade off is the 6 draft spots.

But I would also do Dev for picks 19 + 27 from BKY. This allows BKY to keep their pick 8 but consolidate value since they have 4 first rounders this year.

Spurs now have 2, 14 + 19 + 27 to get who they want, trade away while accomplishing the same goal: clearing the logjam + salary

[RC_Drunkford]

Not exactly the most appropriate topic, but I feel like we need to find a couple more solid contributors like Champagnie out of nothing.
If we take a look at conference finalists, I won't say those players are the difference makers, but it would be nice if our scouting department pulled a couple more players out of their asses like they did during the glory days.

OKC
Luguentz Dort - undrafted.
Aaron Wiggins - 55th pick.
Isaiah Joe - 49th pick and then cut by the Sixers after two seasons, OKC took a flyer on him.
Jaylin Williams - 34th pick.

Minnesota
Jaden McDaniels - 28th pick.
Naz Reid - undrafted.
NAW - an afterthought in Conley trade, had no value.

Knicks
Jalen Brunson - 33rd pick, surplus to requirements in Dallas, Knicks got their franchise player for nothing before anyone else thought he has that kind of potential.
Miles McBride - 36th pick.
Mitchell Robinson - 36th pick.

Pacers
Andrew Nembhard - 31st pick.
Obi Toppin - acquired for SRPs.

All of these players were acquired for next to nothing and are good enough to be in conference finalists rotations.
Obviously I don't expect Spurs to hit with the every SRP or a cheap trade, but it would be really nice if we could find another couple of players that are currently underappreciated.

this is the exact reason why I want them to sign the second round draft pick to an NBA contract and not play the "who signs for a 2-way?" game. Some of those guys should always be developed in the back end on the G-League squad. Riley Minix might be next up.

[scott]

I can see it in BKY due to their cap situation. If they strike out on Giannis etc….they still need to spend money so Devs contract is functionally not relevant in that case. It becomes a question of “do we like this player and can we acquire him at value”

Moving back 6 spots to get a player of Devs caliber makes sense on many levels both on court and preserving value (future trade? Piece that’s already there for when you aren’t tanking you know you have filled etc…)

I see your point and think it makes sense overall but I do think BKY could do it since there is a salary floor they need to meet anyways. They literally have to spend the money so in that regard Dev is “free”…the only trade off is the 6 draft spots.

But I would also do Dev for picks 19 + 27 from BKY. This allows BKY to keep their pick 8 but consolidate value since they have 4 first rounders this year.

Spurs now have 2, 14 + 19 + 27 to get who they want, trade away while accomplishing the same goal: clearing the logjam + salary

The salary floor is definitely an interesting wrinkle, but they do have a couple of RFAs who they are likely to extend (Cam Thomas, Zaire Williams, Dayron Sharpe) and my guess is that if they don't get free agents they'll look to rent out their cap space (much like we did) which means getting assets, not sending them out.

I think a more realistic trade would be Devin + 14 for Cam Johnson... but I don't think I do that if I'm the Spurs. I rate Devin and Cam about equally and while Cam is a better fit for us, I'm not paying a FRP for a better fit.

If Dev for 19 + 27 were on the table, I'd do it and then look to flip those picks for future assets, but I'm thinking it might be hard to do so. I think we wouldn't have much leverage in trying to get out of the excess picks because opposing teams know we aren't taking 4 FRPs (and they probably know we might not even want to make 2). I think the same is going to be true with BKN, so in that case a team might be able to get one of those last two picks for pretty cheap, relatively speaking... and BKN still has #36 after that as well.

In trying to think of ways to use BKN to offload Devin and get some decent value back... what about:

BKN gets Devin, PG13, #3
PHI gets #8, Cam Johnson
SAS gets #19, Noah Clowney

This fails the trade machine... but I thought BKN could take these guys back into cap space so I'm not sure what's going on there.

I'm also not sure that we are needed for this deal... BKN and PHI could just do this without us

[Ocotillo]

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/whats-next-for-celtics-three-trades-boston-could-explore-with-core-players-potentially-on-the-move/


Derrick White to Dallas
Celtics get: P.J. Washington, Caleb Martin, Dwight Powell, 2029 first-round pick (via Lakers), 2032 first-round pick
Mavericks get: Derrick White

Some writer named Sam Quinn, I don't know him from the man on the moon, coming up with trades the Celtics should make. Probably wouldn't happen but I would really hate Derrick on the Mavs.

[exstatic]

If you want Cam Johnson, you are going to need to cough up a bunch of first round picks per the asking price he had last year. In this trade, you give up no first round picks.

I’m not saying I want him, I just want him more than MPJ,

[DPG21920]

The salary floor is definitely an interesting wrinkle, but they do have a couple of RFAs who they are likely to extend (Cam Thomas, Zaire Williams, Dayron Sharpe) and my guess is that if they don't get free agents they'll look to rent out their cap space (much like we did) which means getting assets, not sending them out.

I think a more realistic trade would be Devin + 14 for Cam Johnson... but I don't think I do that if I'm the Spurs. I rate Devin and Cam about equally and while Cam is a better fit for us, I'm not paying a FRP for a better fit.

If Dev for 19 + 27 were on the table, I'd do it and then look to flip those picks for future assets, but I'm thinking it might be hard to do so. I think we wouldn't have much leverage in trying to get out of the excess picks because opposing teams know we aren't taking 4 FRPs (and they probably know we might not even want to make 2). I think the same is going to be true with BKN, so in that case a team might be able to get one of those last two picks for pretty cheap, relatively speaking... and BKN still has #36 after that as well.

In trying to think of ways to use BKN to offload Devin and get some decent value back... what about:

BKN gets Devin, PG13, #3
PHI gets #8, Cam Johnson
SAS gets #19, Noah Clowney

This fails the trade machine... but I thought BKN could take these guys back into cap space so I'm not sure what's going on there.

I'm also not sure that we are needed for this deal... BKN and PHI could just do this without us

Ya it’s tough - I do think that if SA included Branham + Blake in the deal that Spurs now opened up 3 roster spots. I dont see an issue with SA drafting (if they have to) 3 firsts this draft since now Dev + Branham + Blake are gone and you are simply replacing them with better bets/fits at this point.

I don’t think it’s a big deal having 3 rookies in this draft in that context.

[RC_Drunkford]

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/whats-next-for-celtics-three-trades-boston-could-explore-with-core-players-potentially-on-the-move/



Some writer named Sam Quinn, I don't know him from the man on the moon, coming up with trades the Celtics should make. Probably wouldn't happen but I would really hate Derrick on the Mavs.

I don't think Boston trades White. But since defense wins championship, Dallas might go for Jrue Holiday.

[DPG21920]

It ultimately comes down to how much BKY likes Dev as a player. Renting out cap space is an option but that doesnt mean they dont value Dev more than getting some additional 2nds for example.

Just saying I can see a path for sure and BKY both has a salary floor to possibly meet and they have 4 firsts round picks this draft….so there is opportunities

[scott]

Ya it’s tough - I do think that if SA included Branham + Blake in the deal that Spurs now opened up 3 roster spots. I dont see an issue with SA drafting (if they have to) 3 firsts this draft since now Dev + Branham + Blake are gone and you are simply replacing them with better bets/fits at this point.

I don’t think it’s a big deal having 3 rookies in this draft in that context.

I'm starting to really like the 14-25 or so range of this draft (Bryant, Coward, Sober, Fleming, Essengue, Riley, McNeely, Yaxel, Penda, Powell, maybe even Beringer are the guys I like in that range... some might go earlier, so might go a little later)... so I personally wouldn't mind 3 draft picks, I just have a hard time thinking the Spurs will go that route. We shall see!

[mo7888]

Not exactly the most appropriate topic, but I feel like we need to find a couple more solid contributors like Champagnie out of nothing.
If we take a look at conference finalists, I won't say those players are the difference makers, but it would be nice if our scouting department pulled a couple more players out of their asses like they did during the glory days.

OKC
Luguentz Dort - undrafted.
Aaron Wiggins - 55th pick.
Isaiah Joe - 49th pick and then cut by the Sixers after two seasons, OKC took a flyer on him.
Jaylin Williams - 34th pick.

Minnesota
Jaden McDaniels - 28th pick.
Naz Reid - undrafted.
NAW - an afterthought in Conley trade, had no value.

Knicks
Jalen Brunson - 33rd pick, surplus to requirements in Dallas, Knicks got their franchise player for nothing before anyone else thought he has that kind of potential.
Miles McBride - 36th pick.
Mitchell Robinson - 36th pick.

Pacers
Andrew Nembhard - 31st pick.
Obi Toppin - acquired for SRPs.

All of these players were acquired for next to nothing and are good enough to be in conference finalists rotations.
Obviously I don't expect Spurs to hit with the every SRP or a cheap trade, but it would be really nice if we could find another couple of players that are currently underappreciated.

Maybe we can get Jarace Walker reasonable..

[scott]

Maybe we can get Jarace Walker reasonable..

Would you do #14 for Walker? We could take him into our TPE and that might give them the space they need to retain Tuner and stay under the 1st apron (if they care about such things).

Edit: meant to say MLE, not TPE (we don't have one of those that I'm aware of)

[mo7888]

Would you do #14 for Walker? We could take him into our TPE and that might give them the space they need to retain Tuner and stay under the 1st apron (if they care about such things).

I would, but I doubt SA would do that because his 2nd contract comes up sooner than a draft pick that they might project to give similar value.

[DPG21920]

It wont happen, but would love something like:

SA Gets: Cam Johnson + Wendell Carter + Pick 19 + Pick 27

ORL Gets: Fox + Branham

BKY Gets: KCP + Pick 16 (ORL has this year) + ORL 27 + ORL 31 + multiple 2nds

ORL gets their lead guard they really need but it cost them Carter Jr + 3 firsts

BKY gives up Cam + pick 19 + pick 27 to take on KCP, but they move up from pick 19 to 16 this year and get 2 unprotected additional firsts and multiple 2nds for giving up pick 27 + Cam + eating KCP

Spurs give up Fox get two solid players to help while clearing a logjam of Fox/Castle/Harper and recoup 2 of the 3 firsts they lost in Fox deal (rest of value is recouped via Wendel + Cam)

[Trueblood]

Just saw an interesting proposal:

Spurs send #2, #14, and younger talent (Vassell, Sochan, Keldon, etc) for salary matching purposes to the Bucks

The Bucks send Giannis to the Mavs

The Mavs send #1 to the Spurs and a future first to the Bucks

The Bucks would get three first rounders (two in this lottery and one of them which would land them the second best player in this draft) as well as some young talent.

The Mavs would get a player that could help them contend next year and for the next few years. A core of Irving, Giannis, and AD (provided they can stay healthy) would be an immediate contender.

The Spurs get Flagg to join Castle, Fox, and Wemby.

I don't think it would happen for several reasons (there is no indication the Giannis would want to go to Dallas and I think the Bucks try to do right by him) and even if they do get him there the salaries for those three players would cripple their ability to get anyone else to fill the bench. The Bucks could also just work directly with Dallas and cut us out completely. Finally, the Spurs would have to agree to break up friendship which we all know won't happen. But it's a fun scenario to consider.

[mo7888]

Just saw an interesting proposal:

Spurs send #2, #14, and younger talent (Vassell, Sochan, Keldon, etc) for salary matching purposes to the Bucks

The Bucks send Giannis to the Mavs

The Mavs send #1 to the Spurs and a future first to the Bucks

The Bucks would get three first rounders (two in this lottery and one of them which would land them the second best player in this draft) as well as some young talent.

The Mavs would get a player that could help them contend next year and for the next few years. A core of Irving, Giannis, and AD (provided they can stay healthy) would be an immediate contender.

The Spurs get Flagg to join Castle, Fox, and Wemby.

I don't think it would happen for several reasons (there is no indication the Giannis would want to go to Dallas and I think the Bucks try to do right by him) and even if they do get him there the salaries for those three players would cripple their ability to get anyone else to fill the bench. The Bucks could also just work directly with Dallas and cut us out completely. Finally, the Spurs would have to agree to break up friendship which we all know won't happen. But it's a fun scenario to consider.

I doubt that happens for similar reasons, but from our perspective, we'd have to do that..

[scott]

^^^The Mavs would still need to send out salary to make room for Giannis, at which point why wouldn't MIL just prefer the #1 pick overall? I suppose in this hypothetical the Bucks may theoretically value Vassell and Sochan along with another (late) lotto pick coming from the Spurs... but I'd imagine MIL would just prefer the higher rated prospect.

Something like this (picks can be adjusted... I haven't given enough thought as to how to value the picks in a Flagg for Giannis scenario)

https://i.imgur.com/QXV51tD.png

[scott]

I doubt that happens for similar reasons, but from our perspective, we'd have to do that..

Yeah, it wouldn't be possible to accept this from the Spurs POV any faster, I'd imagine. If I'm adding up right, this would give us Fox/Castle/Flagg/Wemby and almost $50MM of cap space if we renounced all our holds. We could have our pick of Naz or Santi at that point... heck, even add em both if you want!

[Trueblood]

^^^The Mavs would still need to send out salary to make room for Giannis, at which point why wouldn't MIL just prefer the #1 pick overall? I suppose in this hypothetical the Bucks may theoretically value Vassell and Sochan along with another (late) lotto pick coming from the Spurs... but I'd imagine MIL would just prefer the higher rated prospect.

Something like this (picks can be adjusted... I haven't given enough thought as to how to value the picks in a Flagg for Giannis scenario)



I don't disagree at all. I think in the end they would prefer Flagg and would just work directly with Dallas. But we do have a deeper war chest and we could offer sweeteners that they can't get from the Mavs. We still hold the ATL first and several swaps in addition to all our second rounders (which we could try to package with an additional team to get another first or two into the deal). The question really becomes would they rather get less draft capital and Flagg or get Harper, #14, and whatever else we could throw at them along with our young guys? If I'm the Bucks I take Flagg all day, but they may see a clearer path to rebuilding through the draft which might make our proposal more appealing.

[scott]

Here you go for scott's fantasy land trade of the day. I'll try to post something equally as absurd each day since Spotrac's trade machine has 2025-26 mode open now.

https://i.imgur.com/6n8udlQ.png

Sorry it's so small, only way I could make a screenshot work because Spotrac's snapshot tool doesn't work that well.

Here is a text version:

Nets get:

Vassell
Branham
#2 Overall

Bucks get:

Cam Johnson
Klay Thompson
Keldon Johnson
Jeremy Sochan
#8 Overall
#14 Overall
2026 DAL Swap
2028 DAL Swap
2029 LAL FRP

Mavs Get:

Noah Clowney
Dariq Whitehead
Giannis

Spurs Get

Daniel Gafford
PJ Washington
Naji Marshall
#1 Overall

:lol everyone but the Spurs says no tbh.

Need to play around with absurd Giannis scenarios that involve Portland or NOP for MIL to get some of their own picks back so that they can tank.

DAL swaps don't actually do MIL any good in this stupid scenario, since DAL will be competing and MIL will be terrible.

[mo7888]

Here you go for scott's fantasy land trade of the day. I'll try to post something equally as absurd each day since Spotrac's trade machine has 2025-26 mode open now.

https://i.imgur.com/6n8udlQ.png

It's blurry... did we get Flagg in that scenario? If so, I'm in...

[scott]

It's blurry... did we get Flagg in that scenario? If so, I'm in...

Sorry, edited to add a text version

[mo7888]

Sorry, edited to add a text version

Thanks.... i think we and Brooklyn would do it...Dallas maybe...Milwaukee, not so much...

[baseline bum]

Ah the dude is a floor spreader. You aren't giving up anything that hurts you. And it's hard to get shooters on the cheap. I think this is a more realistic trade then some of the other things I see that are suggested.

You're giving up the best shooter on a team desperate for shooting. I don't know why everyone is so eager to trade Barnes.

[scott]

Not a Spurs trade idea, but a Giannis idea I saw on Reddit. This might actually be the most realistic blockbuster deal I've seen yet, though I'd probably swap Missi out for someone like Jordan Hawkins, at ATL probably needs to add another pick or two to MIL.

Biggest problem with this proposal is that NOP is already loaded at SF and doesn't need Jalen Johnson... maybe he gets rerouted or they cash in on TMIII or Herb.

https://i.redd.it/scn8n30zhu1f1.jpeg

[baseline bum]

Not a Spurs trade idea, but a Giannis idea I saw on Reddit. This might actually be the most realistic blockbuster deal I've seen yet, though I'd probably swap Missi out for someone like Jordan Hawkins, at ATL probably needs to add another pick or two to MIL.

Biggest problem with this proposal is that NOP is already loaded at SF and doesn't need Jalen Johnson... maybe he gets rerouted or they cash in on TMIII or Herb.

https://i.redd.it/scn8n30zhu1f1.jpeg

JFC are the Bucks going to at least make Atlanta wear a condom?

[spurraider21]

Just saw an interesting proposal:

Spurs send #2, #14, and younger talent (Vassell, Sochan, Keldon, etc) for salary matching purposes to the Bucks

The Bucks send Giannis to the Mavs

The Mavs send #1 to the Spurs and a future first to the Bucks

The Bucks would get three first rounders (two in this lottery and one of them which would land them the second best player in this draft) as well as some young talent.

The Mavs would get a player that could help them contend next year and for the next few years. A core of Irving, Giannis, and AD (provided they can stay healthy) would be an immediate contender.

The Spurs get Flagg to join Castle, Fox, and Wemby.

I don't think it would happen for several reasons (there is no indication the Giannis would want to go to Dallas and I think the Bucks try to do right by him) and even if they do get him there the salaries for those three players would cripple their ability to get anyone else to fill the bench. The Bucks could also just work directly with Dallas and cut us out completely. Finally, the Spurs would have to agree to break up friendship which we all know won't happen. But it's a fun scenario to consider.
nothing to you personally, but ive seen versions of this pop up a few times, and tbh i dont understand why people think this is a possibility.

ok, lets assume Nico does something stupid and decides to trade Flagg. and lets assume the Mavs and Giannis decide to part ways

why on earth would the Bucks prefer a package that gets them Harper instead of Flagg if they are looking at a long term reset? just doenst make sense.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I don't think Boston trades White. But since defense wins championship, Dallas might go for Jrue Holiday.

There’s a very logical trade around Jrue for Washington and Gafford but Mavs have to clean up a little bit before they can execute it. Solves issues for both teams especially since PJ and Gafford can’t be extended at the allowed 140% due to their low value contracts. Maybe Gafford would take a Wendell Carter extension but who knows.

[RC_Drunkford]

You're giving up the best shooter on a team desperate for shooting. I don't know why everyone is so eager to trade Barnes.

I don‘t really want to trade him but he’s on an expiring 19 million dollar deal. I’m pretty sure Brian Wright will try to flip that contract.

[mystargtr34]

There’s a very logical trade around Jrue for Washington and Gafford but Mavs have to clean up a little bit before they can execute it. Solves issues for both teams especially since PJ and Gafford can’t be extended at the allowed 140% due to their low value contracts. Maybe Gafford would take a Wendell Carter extension but who knows.

Both PJ and Gafford have positive trade value, young, quality players on value contracts whereas Jrue is 34yo declining and albatross contract. Boston would have to throw in 3 FRPs to make that deal imo.

I would love for the Spurs to go for Gafford and PJ. But not sure what we can offer, maybe pick 14, Vassell, return the 2030 pick swap.

Edit: ah didn’t realise both PJ and Gafford only have 1 year left on their deals.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Both PJ and Gafford have positive trade value, young, quality players on value contracts whereas Jrue is 34yo declining and albatross contract. Boston would have to throw in 3 FRPs to make that deal imo.

I would love for the Spurs to go for Gafford and PJ. But not sure what we can offer, maybe pick 14, Vassell, return the 2030 pick swap.

Edit: ah didn’t realise both PJ and Gafford only have 1 year left on their deals.

Yeah the problem with Washington and Gafford is that they’re expiring contracts next season and low enough that extending them at 140% seems to be unlikely, so whoever trades for them would expect them to become unrestricted free agents in 2026 when a lot of teams project to have cap space.

[Ice009]

What about the idea of removing the '26 swap, and returning their '27 pick too in exchange for their unprotected 2029 and 2031 firsts? I can see the spurs core being a near finished product about a year from now, and punting the capital down the road a few years could be huge at a time when the Spurs need it most.

Guess it depends on what kind of long term commitment ATL wants to make to Trae Young ($46M this upcoming season and extension eligible, and a $49M player option the next).

Very interesting idea. I wonder if that would make Atlanta better or worse by the time those 2029 and 2031 firsts are due. Obviously we couldn't even guess with it being that far out.


I watched a pod once where they were laughing at KD and Harden for picking Brooklyn. They said that the Nets were less relevant to NY than the Clippers were to LA.

I did not realize Brooklyn are considered that inferior to the Knicks. I thought they were a draw card and may have drawn New York fans when they had a small contention window with KD, and I thought maybe back in the day with Kidd, Kenyon Martin, RJ, Vince Carter (can't remember who else they had off the top of my head) they may have also drawn fans/viewership.


Yeah the problem with Washington and Gafford is that they’re expiring contracts next season and low enough that extending them at 140% seems to be unlikely, so whoever trades for them would expect them to become unrestricted free agents in 2026 when a lot of teams project to have cap space.

Yeah, darn. So if trading for either of those guys (Washington or Gafford), you'd have a lot of competition to try and re-sign them so you'd like have to overpay, or would the Spurs not be able to match offers even if they wanted to?

[Trueblood]

nothing to you personally, but ive seen versions of this pop up a few times, and tbh i dont understand why people think this is a possibility.

ok, lets assume Nico does something stupid and decides to trade Flagg. and lets assume the Mavs and Giannis decide to part ways

why on earth would the Bucks prefer a package that gets them Harper instead of Flagg if they are looking at a long term reset? just doenst make sense.

No offense taken and you’re not wrong at all. I even said that in there when I said they would probably just work directly with Dallas. But there’s always a chance that they see the gap between Flagg and Harper as smaller than others do and the idea of getting 14 in this draft along with Harper as a better option. It’s a long shot but this is the same genius that thought a broken down 30 year old AD was better than having an MVP caliber Luka so you never know ����#♂️. In the end Dallas could offer the better player (Flagg), OKC could offer a better package (they have more picks long term), and Houston can offer better players (Segun and Green), but we are able to offer the best combination of all three. We could give them Harper, solid future picks (including another lottery pick), and starting caliber players (Vassell, Johnson, Sochan). It just comes down to what they would want. Do they want BPA, draft capital, win now players, or a bit of all three?

[baseline bum]

I don‘t really want to trade him but he’s on an expiring 19 million dollar deal. I’m pretty sure Brian Wright will try to flip that contract.

I hope not. Trade Keldon and if HB has another good season like last one sign him to a new deal.

[DPG21920]

It wont happen, but would love something like:

SA Gets: Cam Johnson + Wendell Carter + Pick 19 + Pick 27

ORL Gets: Fox + Branham

BKY Gets: KCP + Pick 16 (ORL has this year) + ORL 27 + ORL 31 + multiple 2nds

ORL gets their lead guard they really need but it cost them Carter Jr + 3 firsts

BKY gives up Cam + pick 19 + pick 27 to take on KCP, but they move up from pick 19 to 16 this year and get 2 unprotected additional firsts and multiple 2nds for giving up pick 27 + Cam + eating KCP

Spurs give up Fox get two solid players to help while clearing a logjam of Fox/Castle/Harper and recoup 2 of the 3 firsts they lost in Fox deal (rest of value is recouped via Wendel + Cam)

scott thoughts on this?

[rascal]

Trade Vassell to Chicago for the 12th pick and draft Sorber

With the 14th pick draft either McNeeley or Fleming

[cutewizard]

Say by a miracle we obtain Naz Reid .......so

Wemby
Naz Reid
Fox
Castle
Harper

Maxime
Sochan
Barnes
Champagne
Back up Point

Competitive!!!!

[mo7888]

Say by a miracle we obtain Naz Reid .......so

Wemby
Naz Reid
Fox
Castle
Harper

Maxime
Sochan
Barnes
Champagne
Back up Point

Competitive!!!!

Considering that one of Castle or Harper is the PG in the rotation with the 2nd unit, that is a pretty balanced lineup.

[montgod]

scott thoughts on this?

Not that I am for this trade at all, but SA isn't getting enough back for Fox and wouldn't want WC.

[baseline bum]

It wont happen, but would love something like:

SA Gets: Cam Johnson + Wendell Carter + Pick 19 + Pick 27

ORL Gets: Fox + Branham

BKY Gets: KCP + Pick 16 (ORL has this year) + ORL 27 + ORL 31 + multiple 2nds

ORL gets their lead guard they really need but it cost them Carter Jr + 3 firsts

BKY gives up Cam + pick 19 + pick 27 to take on KCP, but they move up from pick 19 to 16 this year and get 2 unprotected additional firsts and multiple 2nds for giving up pick 27 + Cam + eating KCP

Spurs give up Fox get two solid players to help while clearing a logjam of Fox/Castle/Harper and recoup 2 of the 3 firsts they lost in Fox deal (rest of value is recouped via Wendel + Cam)

Thank god it won't happen, Fox for Cam Johnson is ricockulous.

[baseline bum]

Trade Vassell to Chicago for the 12th pick and draft Sorber

With the 14th pick draft either McNeeley or Fleming

Would be nice to keep going to that Chicago well.

[RC_Drunkford]

A back up C and a starting PF is all we need to be competitive

[scott]

scott (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=150) thoughts on this?

I think that's a pretty solid return for BKN and ORL, but I don't like it for us (leaving aside that I see no way we trade Fox at this point). This certainly rounds out or team a little more, and gives us several opportunities to take fliers at some of the mid/late FRP big wings I like, but I just can't imagine the Spurs resetting the timeline like this in Wemby's third year.

If we ignore the complications with trading Fox right now, I'd normally be okay with trading Fox (and I'm a huge Fox fan), but I'd want a better vet for him than Cam and WC. I personally believe Fox is a top 25-35 player, so I'd want someone in that approximate range back. (The Ringer has Cam as the #72 player... that seems about right to me. I'm not that high on Cam).

[Dverde]

Nurkic worthless nowadays? One year of Nurk at 19M to ship out 2 years of Keldon at 17.5M?

[mo7888]

Nurkic worthless nowadays? One year of Nurk at 19M to ship out 2 years of Keldon at 17.5M?

Yes...he's worthless...more than that actually...he's a large negative value player now..

[LeBowen]

Nurkic worthless nowadays? One year of Nurk at 19M to ship out 2 years of Keldon at 17.5M?

He's a retard, don't want him anywhere near our team.

[DPG21920]

Thank god it won't happen, Fox for Cam Johnson is ricockulous.

Spurs traded Tre + Collins for Fox. Cam + WCJ >>>>> Tre + Collins


Spurs traded 3 firsts for Fox and here are getting back 2

I think in that context it’s fair enough

[DPG21920]

I think value wise spurs did well on Fox deal but they really going to max Fox now that they have Harper + Castle.

2 years from now they may be better than Fox and now it’s a massive contract on books.

Resetting the picks you gave up (sa can trade 14, 19 & 27 for future picks) while making team better (adding Cam + WCJ) and not having a Fox max deal forced on the books given we unexpectedly got Harper seems prudent in many ways to me even if not ideal.

Would spurs have done the Fox deal if they knew they had pick 2 before? I’m not sure they would so if that’s true how do you pay Fox out of loyalty and force yourself into that corner vs doing what’s best for franchise?

[scott]

I think most of us are of the opinion (right or wrong) that the logic of trading Fox is irrelevant, because there is a hidden cost of trading him now: you'll probably piss off every agent in the league, but you'll definitely piss off Rich Paul. Maybe a big market team could get away with it, but I don't think the Spurs can afford to screw over a guy who just forced his way to us.

[scott]

Here's my crazy trade idea of the day.

Giannis goes to a team looking to make a leap
Celtics shed long term salary while getting back a young prospect to reset with when Tatum eventually comes back
Bucks get all of their outgoing swaps back, while cutting salary and getting one young prospect (view all of the picks with the swaps as just getting the swaps back)
Blazers shed Ayton's deadweight and get a "star" to take them to the next level
Pelicans get a PG while giving up very little, can still look to make a few more moves while adding some like Fears or Jaku with pick #7

This fails because of Stepien Rule, but I'm not actually trading picks here just returning swaps, so it would pass.

https://i.imgur.com/ssLIkSN.jpeg

[baseline bum]

Spurs traded Tre + Collins for Fox. Cam + WCJ >>>>> Tre + Collins


Spurs traded 3 firsts for Fox and here are getting back 2

I think in that context it’s fair enough

Winning big on the Fox trade doesn't mean they should be happy to lose big shipping him out.

[baseline bum]

Here's my crazy trade idea of the day.

Giannis goes to a team looking to make a leap
Celtics shed long term salary while getting back a young prospect to reset with when Tatum eventually comes back
Bucks get all of their outgoing swaps back, while cutting salary and getting one young prospect (view all of the picks with the swaps as just getting the swaps back)
Blazers shed Ayton's deadweight and get a "star" to take them to the next level
Pelicans get a PG while giving up very little, can still look to make a few more moves while adding some like Fears or Jaku with pick #7

This fails because of Stepien Rule, but I'm not actually trading picks here just returning swaps, so it would pass.

https://i.imgur.com/ssLIkSN.jpeg

Jesus man you're posting some hideous trades for Milwaukee

[mo7888]

Here's my crazy trade idea of the day.

Giannis goes to a team looking to make a leap
Celtics shed long term salary while getting back a young prospect to reset with when Tatum eventually comes back
Bucks get all of their outgoing swaps back, while cutting salary and getting one young prospect (view all of the picks with the swaps as just getting the swaps back)
Blazers shed Ayton's deadweight and get a "star" to take them to the next level
Pelicans get a PG while giving up very little, can still look to make a few more moves while adding some like Fears or Jaku with pick #7

This fails because of Stepien Rule, but I'm not actually trading picks here just returning swaps, so it would pass.

https://i.imgur.com/ssLIkSN.jpeg

Getting their picks back > than any package of picks they could get elsewhere, but why would Nola do that?

[Bruno]

I think it's fine for Spurs to take it relatively slow with their guards. They should draft Harper at #2 because he will be the BPA by far. They should sign Fox to his $229M/4 years extension in August because he is worth it. After that, they can wait to see what Fox/Harper/Castle will do during the 2025-2026 season. If a trade needs to be done, it can be done during the 2026 summer.

[scott]

Getting their picks back > than any package of picks they could get elsewhere, but why would Nola do that?

I don't think most of these teams would do this :lol... I'm just having some fun. It's actually pretty hard to put together 5 team trades that make sense for even 3 of the teams!

[Manu&Duncan fan]

A back up C and a starting PF is all we need to be competitive

Yes. Both can be easily done.

John Collins can be had with two SRPs maximum.

Can easily sign a back-up center and draft one.

Next season Spurs will easily be a top 4 or 5 team in the west.

[DPG21920]

I think value wise spurs did well on Fox deal but they really going to max Fox now that they have Harper + Castle.

2 years from now they may be better than Fox and now it’s a massive contract on books.

Resetting the picks you gave up (sa can trade 14, 19 & 27 for future picks) while making team better (adding Cam + WCJ) and not having a Fox max deal forced on the books given we unexpectedly got Harper seems prudent in many ways to me even if not ideal.

Would spurs have done the Fox deal if they knew they had pick 2 before? I’m not sure they would so if that’s true how do you pay Fox out of loyalty and force yourself into that corner vs doing what’s best for franchise?


I think most of us are of the opinion (right or wrong) that the logic of trading Fox is irrelevant, because there is a hidden cost of trading him now: you'll probably piss off every agent in the league, but you'll definitely piss off Rich Paul. Maybe a big market team could get away with it, but I don't think the Spurs can afford to screw over a guy who just forced his way to us.

Perhaps but that is a bad situation then when you risk nuking some of Wemby’s prime and anchoring yourself to a 200M deal out of fear of pushback….trick spot indeed just have to see how it shakes out.

Spurs may not give him max? He may willingly work with Spurs on a trade? Spurs may trade pick 2?

Or they all work great together and one is willing to be a Ginobili (would be great)

My big question is the one above though still

[DPG21920]

I think value wise spurs did well on Fox deal but they really going to max Fox now that they have Harper + Castle.

2 years from now they may be better than Fox and now it’s a massive contract on books.

Resetting the picks you gave up (sa can trade 14, 19 & 27 for future picks) while making team better (adding Cam + WCJ) and not having a Fox max deal forced on the books given we unexpectedly got Harper seems prudent in many ways to me even if not ideal.

Would spurs have done the Fox deal if they knew they had pick 2 before? I’m not sure they would so if that’s true how do you pay Fox out of loyalty and force yourself into that corner vs doing what’s best for franchise?


I think it's fine for Spurs to take it relatively slow with their guards. They should draft Harper at #2 because he will be the BPA by far. They should sign Fox to his $229M/4 years extension in August because he is worth it. After that, they can wait to see what Fox/Harper/Castle will do during the 2025-2026 season. If a trade needs to be done, it can be done during the 2026 summer.

But you dont think Fox on that deal where teams see Harper and Castle as clear future for Spurs and knowing SA has to trade Fox now at his money is a possible real detriment to value?

[RC_Drunkford]

Perhaps but that is a bad situation then when you risk nuking some of Wemby’s prime and anchoring yourself to a 200M deal out of fear of pushback….trick spot indeed just have to see how it shakes out.

Spurs may not give him max? He may willingly work with Spurs on a trade? Spurs may trade pick 2?

Or they all work great together and one is willing to be a Ginobili (would be great)

My big question is the one above though still

You're talking about a franchise that started CP3 for all 82 games because they promised it to him, while they had Fox and Castle. The same franchise that kept playing Zach Collins because they gave him a 35 million dollar contract. You're talking like you don't know how the Spurs operate.

[Chinook]

I think the Spurs have to be trying to get Fox to take less on his extension if possible. Under this CBA, you can only keep teams together if the best players give some back. Fox at something closer to $40-$45 Million a year is far more sustainable than him at $57 Million. I could understand Fox balking, especially without assurances that the Spurs will use the savings on a star. It seems like an uphill battle, but if the Spurs can reestablish a culture of sacrifice early enough, it might trickle down by the time folks like Wemby, Castle and Harper are on their extensions. They shouldn't do it just to sit on their thumbs, of course, but the Spurs could be in play for a star this summer or at least the deadline. Whether they can afford one without having to make a big cost-cutting move depends on how many full maxes are on their roster.

[baseline bum]

I think the Spurs have to be trying to get Fox to take less on his extension if possible. Under this CBA, you can only keep teams together if the best players give some back. Fox at something closer to $40-$45 Million a year is far more sustainable than him at $57 Million. I could understand Fox balking, especially without assurances that the Spurs will use the savings on a star. It seems like an uphill battle, but if the Spurs can reestablish a culture of sacrifice early enough, it might trickle down by the time folks like Wemby, Castle and Harper are on their extensions. They shouldn't do it just to sit on their thumbs, of course, but the Spurs could be in play for a star this summer or at least the deadline. Whether they can afford one without having to make a big cost-cutting move depends on how many full maxes are on their roster.

I really hope Spurs fans don't get bent out of shape when De'Aaron gets max.

[mo7888]

I really hope Spurs fans don't get bent out of shape when De'Aaron gets max.

Yup...because it's gonna happen. Trade him in a couple years if Castle and Harper pan out.

[DPG21920]

You're talking about a franchise that started CP3 for all 82 games because they promised it to him, while they had Fox and Castle. The same franchise that kept playing Zach Collins because they gave him a 35 million dollar contract. You're talking like you don't know how the Spurs operate.

Totally different IMO lol. CP was there before Fox and Wemby got hurt and they knew Fox needed surgery etc….Im agreeing with you on what they WILL do lol - Im saying it should be carefully considered here given circumstances

[DPG21920]

I really hope Spurs fans don't get bent out of shape when De'Aaron gets max.

I think most know hes worth it in context and expect it tbh….Harper luck just makes it tricky but most understand doesnt change Fox value (outside of maybe for the Spurs themselves to some degree)

[scott]

I've been saying since the Fox trade happened that I wouldn't be surprised if they had already pre-arranged a slight discount on his next deal prior to the trade (nothing major, but maybe in the 25-28% of the cap range instead of 30%). The Spurs certainly would have had the leverage at the time to do so. I could definitely envision a conversation going like this:

Rich Paul: Hey Brian, you know I've wanted to pair one of my guys with Wemby... and De'Aaron wants to make it happen and I think Sacramento brass is amendable to a deal you'll like

Brian Wright: Hey Rich, sounds really good and I appreciate you making good after that Morris fiasco a few years ago and I appreciate the relationship we've built over the years. I'm interested, but you know we struggle to get ownership to buy off on max deals, especially with your guy in the back half of his 20s...

Rich Paul: I hear you Brian, but De'Aaron is a top 30 player... opportunities like this don't come around too often... talk to your team and let me know.

Brian Wright (a few days later): Hey Rich, we spoke internally, and we could make this happen... but you'd have to be willing to take a slight discount on the extension. Nothing major, maybe we target 27.5% of the cap? We just need a little wiggle room to continue to build a team around Wemby and Fox if we do this deal. You know we aren't looking at going into the tax anytime soon, so we need a little flexibility. What about a 3+1 at 27.5%? This is where De'Aaron wants to be, and no state income tax...

Rich Paul: Yeah I think that's doable.

This all may be fantasy wishcasting... We'll see what happens come August. But I'm definitely on the side of there is about as close to a 0% chance we trade Fox this summer as possible. Even if we were willing to screw him over like that, we'll be trading him as an expiring after he's been burnt by the acquiring team... his relative value will be driven down based on that alone.

[Chinook]

I really hope Spurs fans don't get bent out of shape when De'Aaron gets max.

The NBA is going to have to figure out how to have sustained success under this new CBA. Fox isn't an automax unless they think he can be a top-two guy on a title team. The Spurs are very unlikely to be in the tax multiple years in a row, let alone around the second apron. They can't truly afford to give out the types of contracts that seemed harmless under the old CBA. While yes, they MIIGHT be able to trade Fox (whose value is often overstated on this board) in the event they need the space, they'd be much better off if they didn't have to do so.

[DPG21920]

The NBA is going to have to figure out how to have sustained success under this new CBA. Fox isn't an automax unless they think he can be a top-two guy on a title team. The Spurs are very unlikely to be in the tax multiple years in a row, let alone around the second apron. They can't truly afford to give out the types of contracts that seemed harmless under the old CBA. While yes, they MIIGHT be able to trade Fox (whose value is often overstated on this board) in the event they need the space, they'd be much better off if they didn't have to do so.

That was sort of my point with my questions above and the ORL/BKY/SA trade…..it doesnt have to be that exact deal, but getting Harper was lucky and it definitely changes calculus to some degree.

Hopefully if needed SA can trade Fox later if it comes to that after giving him a big deal but Im not so sure that a max deal 2 years from now wont be a negative asset. Hope not of course but it’s a non-zero chance simply if Castle/Harper are legit.

[exstatic]

Perhaps but that is a bad situation then when you risk nuking some of Wemby’s prime and anchoring yourself to a 200M deal out of fear of pushback….trick spot indeed just have to see how it shakes out.

Spurs may not give him max? He may willingly work with Spurs on a trade? Spurs may trade pick 2?

Or they all work great together and one is willing to be a Ginobili (would be great)

My big question is the one above though still

Having an abundance of skilled guards is never a bad situation. Castle is cheap until 2028, and Harper until 2029. If Fox extends on a 4+1, you start working with Klutch and Rich Paul during 2028-2029 to find him a soft landing, either at the trade deadline, or that next summer. Get a list of maybe 3 teams.

We can afford both Castle and Harper on their second contracts, likely at the Fun Max 25% of the cap. I doubt either wins an MVP or makes All NBA on their first contract, triggering a SuperMax. If they both hit their ceilings, Spurs will have to choose one to keep for a third contract, and one to ship out for picks. There’s a possibility of getting a good draftee in 2026,2027,2028, or 2030. They get added to the mix, and evaluated when their contract time arrives.

[SpursBills]

I think the Spurs have to be trying to get Fox to take less on his extension if possible. Under this CBA, you can only keep teams together if the best players give some back. Fox at something closer to $40-$45 Million a year is far more sustainable than him at $57 Million. I could understand Fox balking, especially without assurances that the Spurs will use the savings on a star. It seems like an uphill battle, but if the Spurs can reestablish a culture of sacrifice early enough, it might trickle down by the time folks like Wemby, Castle and Harper are on their extensions. They shouldn't do it just to sit on their thumbs, of course, but the Spurs could be in play for a star this summer or at least the deadline. Whether they can afford one without having to make a big cost-cutting move depends on how many full maxes are on their roster.

I agree with this for the most part, but would not be surprised in the least if Fox took the max. In my opinion, sacrificing salary and the subsequent flexibility that it affords starts with Wemby above all others. I don't expect this to happen, but there is a world where OKC is able to sign Chet and JDub to less than 25% max, wins the title this year, and ends up building a juggernaut for the next few years. Wemby may be confronted with the option of either taking the 30% rookie max extension and potentially being at a perpetual talent disadvantage or taking less to allow the front office to retain talent if Castle and/or Harper blow up. Probably wishful thinking on my part, but if there was any superstar in the modern era who would be capable of something like this, it is probably Wemby but we will see what the landscape looks like moving forward.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Having an abundance of skilled guards is never a bad situation. Castle is cheap until 2028, and Harper until 2029. If Fox extends on a 4+1, you start working with Klutch and Rich Paul during 2028-2029 to find him a soft landing, either at the trade deadline, or that next summer. Get a list of maybe 3 teams.

We can afford both Castle and Harper on their second contracts, likely at the Fun Max 25% of the cap. I doubt either wins an MVP or makes All NBA on their first contract, triggering a SuperMax. If they both hit their ceilings, Spurs will have to choose one to keep, and one to ship out for picks. There’s a possibility of getting a good draftee in 2026,2027,2028, or 2030. They get added to the mix, and evaluated when their contract time arrives.

Yes you always have brilliant opinions!

There is no need to worry about 2nd Apron for reasons mentioned by you.

Plus, 2nd apron limits every team's ability to pay, not just Spurs.

We may be able to retain Castle or Harper at less than 25% maximum, because there is no (or few) other team can pay more.

Even if both ends up max guys, we can trade one for good assets, as Exstatic mentioned above.

[Guru of Nothing]

Sequence of events, do i have this right?

- Sign Fox to 4 year max
- develop greatest three-guard rotation known to mankind
- 2026 - Extend Wemby to super-duper double-secret max extension. Maybe throw in a pony.
- 2027 - Extend Castle
- 2028 - Extend Harper
- 20131 - PROFIT


Will probably be looking to make trades between Castle and Harper's extension, if they meet expectations.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

I agree with this for the most part, but would not be surprised in the least if Fox took the max. In my opinion, sacrificing salary and the subsequent flexibility that it affords starts with Wemby above all others. I don't expect this to happen, but there is a world where OKC is able to sign Chet and JDub to less than 25% max, wins the title this year, and ends up building a juggernaut for the next few years. Wemby may be confronted with the option of either taking the 30% rookie max extension and potentially being at a perpetual talent disadvantage or taking less to allow the front office to retain talent if Castle and/or Harper blow up. Probably wishful thinking on my part, but if there was any superstar in the modern era who would be capable of something like this, it is probably Wemby but we will see what the landscape looks like moving forward.

Yes. This summer OKC will set the value of 2nd and 3rd star like Chet and Williams.
How many teams will be willing to throw max to them next season?
Knowing the market, it will be safe for them to accept less than 25% Max this season.
Same will happen to Harper or castle or both.

[DPG21920]

Having an abundance of skilled guards is never a bad situation. Castle is cheap until 2028, and Harper until 2029. If Fox extends on a 4+1, you start working with Klutch and Rich Paul during 2028-2029 to find him a soft landing, either at the trade deadline, or that next summer. Get a list of maybe 3 teams.

We can afford both Castle and Harper on their second contracts, likely at the Fun Max 25% of the cap. I doubt either wins an MVP or makes All NBA on their first contract, triggering a SuperMax. If they both hit their ceilings, Spurs will have to choose one to keep for a third contract, and one to ship out for picks. There’s a possibility of getting a good draftee in 2026,2027,2028, or 2030. They get added to the mix, and evaluated when their contract time arrives.

Sounds easy but what if Castle and Harper explode like we think and Fox role is reduced and teams know SA has to trade him and hes on that mega deal? It’s not that easy IMO

[CGD]

Sequence of events, do i have this right?

- Sign Fox to 4 year max
- develop greatest three-guard rotation known to mankind
- 2026 - Extend Wemby to super-duper double-secret max extension. Maybe throw in a pony.
- 2027 - Extend Castle
- 2028 - Extend Harper
- 20131 - PROFIT


Will probably be looking to make trades between Castle and Harper's extension, if they meet expectations.

Forgot to add “trade Fox” to 2028.

[CGD]

Sounds easy but what if Castle and Harper explode like we think and Fox role is reduced and teams know SA has to trade him and hes on that mega deal? It’s not that easy IMO

Well at that point you can go get Jalen Brown’s contract, which Boston will still be trying to trade

[DPG21920]

Well at that point you can go get Jalen Brown’s contract, which Boston will still be trying to trade

How does that help lol? BOS is trying to cut salary so trading a 50M player for a 50M player does nothing…

[exstatic]

Sounds easy but what if Castle and Harper explode like we think and Fox role is reduced and teams know SA has to trade him and hes on that mega deal? It’s not that easy IMO

We got Fox cheaply. We don’t have to cash out with a ton of picks. If Castle and Harper explode, we’re winning a ‘chip, and everybody wants players from championship teams.

Contracts go up in flat 8% raises, while the cap goes up in cumulative 10% chunks. Almost every contract is reasonable after 3 years or so,even if it started as a max deal.

[mystargtr34]

I’m not a contract or cap guru so if someone could confirm if this is correct with the Fox contract.

He has this upcoming season 25-26 left on his current deal at $37M.

If he signs a 4 year max deal this off-season it would kick in starting in season 26-27 and run through 29-30? And his max is 4/$229M which is 25% of the cap? Or is he eligible for 30% already? Or only if he makes All NBA this season?

Edit: Ok I see he’s classified as a veteran now because he is entering his 9th season so he is 30% eligible. I’ll be surprised if he signs less than 30% tbh, which is ok given Wemby, Castle, Harper are all going to be cheap for a few years.

The Spurs can reevaluate at the end of next season depending how the Fox-Harper-Castle trio works and go from there.

[CGD]

For those who favor KD over Giannis, who says no (remember PHX is in cap he’ll)?

PHX: Garland; Keldon
CLE: Devin
SAS: Durant; 32FRP (swap); 27FRP & 29FRP (each has shit protections)

[scott]

I’m not a contract or cap guru so if someone could confirm if this is correct with the Fox contract.

He has this upcoming season 25-26 left on his current deal at $37M.

If he signs a 4 year max deal this off-season it would kick in starting in season 26-27 and run through 29-30? And his max is 4/$229M which is 25% of the cap? Or is he eligible for 30% already? Or only if he makes All NBA this season?

Edit: Ok I see he’s classified as a veteran now because he is entering his 9th season so he is 30% eligible. I’ll be surprised if he signs less than 30% tbh, which is ok given Wemby, Castle, Harper are all going to be cheap for a few years.

The Spurs can reevaluate at the end of next season depending how the Fox-Harper-Castle trio works and go from there.

He will only be eligible for up to 4/230 with us. SuperMax (Designated Veteran Extensions is what they are technically called) are only available from your original team. But, he can also do a 2+1 or a 3+1 to give him an opportunity to opt out and sign a 10-year vet 35% deal, though I doubt he will because he probably understand the unlikelihood of that happening. This is more likely what Luka will do.

[vy65]

Cap:

2025-2026: $154.6
2026-2027: $170.06
2027-2028: $187.06
2028-2029: $205.76
2029-2030: $226.33

Max Extension
2025-2026: $37 (24% of cap)
2026-2027: $57.25 (34% of cap)
2027-2028: $61.83 (33% of cap)
2029-2029: $66.41 (32% of cap)
2029-2030: $70.99 (31% of cap)

My math could be totally wrong, but if I’m right, there’s really not that much flexibility given by the 10% cap increase vs. 8% increase per year.

[scott]

For those who favor KD over Giannis, who says no (remember PHX is in cap he’ll)?

PHX: Garland; Keldon
CLE: Devin
SAS: Durant; 32FRP (swap); 27FRP & 29FRP (each has shit protections)

So wait... we get KD, get rid of Devin and Keldon, and get picks? Sign me up right away!

I'm actually not in favor of KD or Giannis, because there isn't enough ball to go around IMO, but this deal would be impossible to pass up.

[scott]

Cap:

2025-2026: $154.6
2026-2027: $170.06
2027-2028: $187.06
2028-2029: $205.76

Max Extension
2025-2026: $57.25 (37% of cap)
2026-2027: $61.83 (36% of cap)
2027-2028: $66.41 (35.5% of cap)
2028-2029: $70.99 (34.5% of cap)

My math could be totally wrong, but if I’m right, there’s really not that much flexibility given by the 10% cap increase vs. 8% increase per year.

Max extension in each of those years is only 35% of the cap. There is no way to break beyond 35%, and it only applies to a small subset of players (10 year vets and those who win MVP, DPOY or make All NBA). For everyone else, 30% is the hard cap.

But to your point... a 5 year SuperMax signed only goes from 30% of the cap down to 32.5% of the cap in year 5. It's not like there is a huge savings. A 30% max goes down to 27.8% by year 5.

[vy65]

Max extension in each of those years is only 35% of the cap. There is no way to break beyond 35%, and it only applies to a small subset of players (10 year vets and those who win MVP, DPOY or make All NBA). For everyone else, 30% is the hard cap.

Yeah, my b. Was off by a year. He’ll go from 34% of the cap to 31% of the cap over the course of a 4 year max deal.

[Chinook]

For those who favor KD over Giannis, who says no (remember PHX is in cap he’ll)?

PHX: Garland; Keldon
CLE: Devin
SAS: Durant; 32FRP (swap); 27FRP & 29FRP (each has shit protections)

The Cavs easily. Maybe if they were getting 14, it would be closer. I think they'd take Vassell as neutral ballast in a Garland deal, not straight up.

[scott]

Yeah, my b. Was off by a year. He’ll go from 34% of the cap to 31% of the cap over the course of a 4 year max deal.

Fox won't be eligible for 35%. He'll go from 30% in Year 1 down to 28.4% in Year 4 (assuming he signs the absolutely max deal).

My hope is that we could get him at 4/201 where he gets 27.5% in year 1 with 5% raises. This would take him from 27.5% in Year 1 down to 23.9% in Year 4. This may be a pipe dream, but it would pay him on this schedule:

2025-26: $37
2026-27: $46.8
2027-28: $49.1
2028-29: $51.6
2029-30: $54.1

If I were Brian Wright, I'd do this, but then actually try to frontload it. More cash up front for Fox, but makes him easier to trade if necessary in a few years along with adding more cap flexibility

[CGD]

So wait... we get KD, get rid of Devin and Keldon, and get picks? Sign me up right away!

I'm actually not in favor of KD or Giannis, because there isn't enough ball to go around IMO, but this deal would be impossible to pass up.

Well, the 27/29 Utah picks the Suns own are ass so don’t get too excited. Here’s a taste:

“2027 first round draft pick from Utah, Cleveland or Minnesota (least favorable). Utah will receive the two most favorable of its 2027 1st round pick, Cleveland's 2027 1st round pick and Minnesota's 2027 1st round pick and Phoenix will receive the least favorable of the three.”

I’m also am not that excited about KD for the record, but I do think there is enough noise about Garland now that maybe a 3 way might make sense where Vassell goes to CLE, a team that needs a point guard like ORL, PHX or BKN lands Garland, and we get assets.

[baseline bum]

Sounds easy but what if Castle and Harper explode like we think and Fox role is reduced and teams know SA has to trade him and hes on that mega deal? It’s not that easy IMO

He's not washed up Beal on a supermax and even Beal would have been traded three months ago if not for the no-trade clause.

[vy65]

Fox won't be eligible for 35%. He'll go from 30% in Year 1 down to 28.4% in Year 4 (assuming he signs the absolutely max deal).

My hope is that we could get him at 4/201 where he gets 27.5% in year 1 with 5% raises. This would take him from 27.5% in Year 1 down to 23.9% in Year 4. This may be a pipe dream, but it would pay him on this schedule:

2025-26: $37
2026-27: $46.8
2027-28: $49.1
2028-29: $51.6
2029-30: $54.1

If I were Brian Wright, I'd do this, but then actually try to frontload it. More cash up front for Fox, but makes him easier to trade if necessary in a few years along with adding more cap flexibility

That, and front loading lines up with Wemby/Castle/Harper’s contracts as well.

I think the 200MM number is fair considering Brunson left a lot more on the table.

[Chinook]

Max extension in each of those years is only 35% of the cap. There is no way to break beyond 35%, and it only applies to a small subset of players (10 year vets and those who win MVP, DPOY or make All NBA). For everyone else, 30% is the hard cap.

But to your point... a 5 year SuperMax signed only goes from 30% of the cap down to 32.5% of the cap in year 5. It's not like there is a huge savings. A 30% max goes down to 27.8% by year 5.

You can go beyond 35 percent if the cap is flat enough. We all know about the eight-percent raises during a contract of course, but players are also guaranteed at least a five-percent increase to their previous salary when re-signing, even if that's over their max.

[CGD]

The Cavs easily. Maybe if they were getting 14, it would be closer. I think they'd take Vassell as neutral ballast in a Garland deal, not straight up.

Maybe, just feels like they’re really singling out Garland as the “issue” with the playoff woes, which in turns makes it hard to expect a good return for him.

In theory the fit with Vassell and Mitchell is cleaner. I’m also sure they will be looking at Cam Johnson.

[mo7888]

Sounds easy but what if Castle and Harper explode like we think and Fox role is reduced and teams know SA has to trade him and hes on that mega deal? It’s not that easy IMO

In the 'nightmare' scenario where both Castle and Harper hit their absolute ceiling and Fox drops off , then we package picks to Fox to move him...

[mo7888]

For those who favor KD over Giannis, who says no (remember PHX is in cap he’ll)?

PHX: Garland; Keldon
CLE: Devin
SAS: Durant; 32FRP (swap); 27FRP & 29FRP (each has shit protections)

That's actually pretty good... I could see everyone having interest in that.

[baseline bum]

You can go beyond 35 percent if the cap is flat enough. We all know about the eight-percent raises during a contract of course, but players are also guaranteed at least a five-percent increase to their previous salary when re-signing, even if that's over their max.

Not on this CBA for the next 7-8 years where you have 10% (compounded) raises to the cap built in every year from the new TV/streaming deal.

[vy65]

For those who favor KD over Giannis, who says no (remember PHX is in cap he’ll)?

PHX: Garland; Keldon
CLE: Devin
SAS: Durant; 32FRP (swap); 27FRP & 29FRP (each has shit protections)

I agree with Chinook, you’d have to add 14 and one of the FRP’s going to us, but that still probably isn’t enough for CLE.

[exstatic]

Cleveland is not trading Garland. Their whole offense is architected around two high level shooting guards, allowing them to play two no shooting or limited shooting bigs. When Garland went down, they fell off a cliff against Indy.

[vy65]

BKN: Poole + 14 + 18
WAS: Vassell
SA: 26 + 27 + Saddiq Bay

[BatManu20]

Naz Reid is fucking terrible. Dude is soft as shit. No back to the basket game whatsoever and he's getting pushed around and out-rebounded by guards. If he's not hitting his 3's, he's completely useless.

[bevo]

Just a thought - not sure how healthy Porzingis will be. But would you consider a KP and a Boston 1st for Devin? Shaves some money for Boston (admit-tingly not much)

[mo7888]

Just a thought - not sure how healthy Porzingis will be. But would you consider a KP and a Boston 1st for Devin? Shaves some money for Boston (admit-tingly not much)

Yup...and he's comes off the books earlier than Devin too.

[Chinook]

Not on this CBA for the next 7-8 years where you have 10% (compounded) raises to the cap built in every year from the new TV/streaming deal.

I know. That's why I said "if the cap is flat enough".

[exstatic]

Just a thought - not sure how healthy Porzingis will be. But would you consider a KP and a Boston 1st for Devin? Shaves some money for Boston (admit-tingly not much)

I think Porzingas is both broken, and in the last year of his deal. I don’t see Boston doing this to shave a few million off one year while taking on all the years of Devin’s deal.

[RC_Drunkford]

Fox won't be eligible for 35%. He'll go from 30% in Year 1 down to 28.4% in Year 4 (assuming he signs the absolutely max deal).

My hope is that we could get him at 4/201 where he gets 27.5% in year 1 with 5% raises. This would take him from 27.5% in Year 1 down to 23.9% in Year 4. This may be a pipe dream, but it would pay him on this schedule:

2025-26: $37
2026-27: $46.8
2027-28: $49.1
2028-29: $51.6
2029-30: $54.1

If I were Brian Wright, I'd do this, but then actually try to frontload it. More cash up front for Fox, but makes him easier to trade if necessary in a few years along with adding more cap flexibility

I‘m also hoping they get a slight discount from Fox. Can you actually frontload a max extension? I know you can if it‘s less, but not sure if that‘s possible if it‘s the max. If so, then that would bail us out completely and we should be able to keep Fox until his contract expires and it would also be easy to trade him in the last year of his deal.

Sochan‘s extension will be crucial too. They really shouldn’t overpay him.

[scott]

I‘m also hoping they get a slight discount from Fox. Can you actually frontload a max extension? I know you can if it‘s less, but not sure if that‘s possible if it‘s the max. If so, then that would bail us out completely and we should be able to keep Fox until his contract expires and it would also be easy to trade him in the last year of his deal.

Sochan‘s extension will be crucial too. They really shouldn’t overpay him.

Maybe there is some rule about declining max contracts, but I doubt it? Seems like it should be legal (though it's then technically not a max - since it would be less than the max based on the declining nature). You can't Front-load the first year above 25/30/35% (whichever is applicable), I know that.

[Chinook]

I‘m also hoping they get a slight discount from Fox. Can you actually frontload a max extension? I know you can if it‘s less, but not sure if that‘s possible if it‘s the max. If so, then that would bail us out completely and we should be able to keep Fox until his contract expires and it would also be easy to trade him in the last year of his deal.

Sochan‘s extension will be crucial too. They really shouldn’t overpay him.

Basically no, at least not in the way you seem to be thinking. Let's say the max is $50 Million in the first year of the deal and there are 10-percent raises, drops allowed to make the math easier. A four-year max extension would be

2026 -- $50 Million
2027 -- $55 Million
2028 -- $60 Million
2029 -- $65 Million

Total: $230 Million.

What you can't do is:

2026 -- $65 Million
2027 -- $60 Million
2028 -- $55 Million
2029 -- $50 Million

That would require him to make more than the max in the first year of his deal, and that's not allowed.

What you can do is:

2026 -- $50 Million
2027 -- $45 Million
2028 -- $40 Million
2029 -- $35 Million

Total: $170 Million

That's what a front-loaded contract would look like. Since that's a whole $15 Million less per year on average, folks wouldn't call that a max extension, even though it also started at the max.


I would like something more similar to Vassell's contract:

2026 -- $50 Million
2027 -- $45 Million
2028 -- $50 Million
2029 -- $55 Million

Total: $200 Million

That maximizes the savings during the 2027-2028 season which is the first year Wemby's extension kicks in. If the Spurs happen to have a third star whose potential final contract is set to expire that season, they'd have their best chance of keeping everyone together for that season before transitioning to the much smaller contract Castle would be eligible to sign. Thus the team is able to remain financially responsible Yes, these are fake round numbers, but the basic structure. I haven't done some multi-year cap analysis yet, but there should still be a chance that they keep Vassell through that whole stretch. If Devin can make a Wiggins-like pivot to be a high-quality role-player, his contract would be fine, and if folks view him as a negative contract, the Spurs shouldn't be paying extra to move him at this time.

[pad300]

How much are we willing to pay for parts that fit?

Vassel + 14 for John Collins

96 minutes at 1&2, generally spread between Fox, Castle and Harper. (Likely Fox and Castle start, and Harper comes in for Fox. All of Fox's minutes come at the 1, All of Castle's at the 2, and Harper splits, being the PG when with Castle, and the SG with Fox). Wesley for backup.

48 minutes at the 3 - Champagnie for 30, Keldon for 18

48 Minutes at the 4 - Collins for 30, Sochan for 18

48 Minutes at the 5 - Wemby for 30, FA(Adams from HOU ?) for 18

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Porzingis apparently has long covid (speculation), which is horrible for an athlete and can last indefinitely. Whoever trades for him is risking a lot. I wish him all the best but I wouldn’t be going anywhere close to that contract.

[Ice009]

Porzingis apparently has long covid (speculation), which is horrible for an athlete and can last indefinitely. Whoever trades for him is risking a lot. I wish him all the best but I wouldn’t be going anywhere close to that contract.

Darn, is that just speculation? When did that kick in? Was that earlier this season as I don't remember him having issues last season?

[Bruno]

Fox trade value shouldn't be lower once he signs a max extension because, if a team trade for him now, they know they will have to sign him to that contract once eligible (6 months after the trade). His trade value should be a little higher because the uncertainty of him leaving for nothing via FA will be gone.
If Fox get injured and/or sucks, Spurs could be, in theory, trapped with his contract. Fox has played well and has been quite healthy over the past 5 years, so it's quite unlikely to happen.

With the new TV deal, all contracts are now declining ones. Contracts can raise up top 8% of the first year salary. Salary cap will raise by a compounded 10% per year. For a 4 years contract like for Fox, Salary in the last year will be 124% of the first year salary while the cap will raise by 133.1% in the same span. His salary will go from 30% of the cap to 27.9% of the cap.

Fox max extension will be the following:
2026-2027: $51M
2027-2028: $55.1M
2028-2029: $59.2M
2029-2030: $63.2M

Harper potential first deal will start in 2029-2030. $63.2M for Fox is a lot but, in 2029-2030, the luxury tax threshold will be at $275.1M, first apron at $286.9M and second apron at $304.3M.

Spurs drafting Harper makes it less likely that Fox takes a pay-cut on his extension. Fox obviously knows that if Harper is great and they struggle fitting together, he might be traded in 1 or 2 years. I doubt he takes a pay-cut in that situation.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Darn, is that just speculation? When did that kick in? Was that earlier this season as I don't remember him having issues last season?

Yeah it’s just speculation, don’t think Boston confirmed it, not that there’s a test to confirm it anyway. But based on him apparently having covid a couple of months back and not being himself ever since, as well as the apparent symptoms it appears to be a likely cause. Of course, if true, long covid lasting indefinitely isn‘t the same as infinitely but still..

[Ice009]

Yeah it’s just speculation, don’t think Boston confirmed it, not that there’s a test to confirm it anyway. But based on him apparently having covid a couple of months back and not being himself ever since, as well as the apparent symptoms it appears to be a likely cause. Of course, if true, long covid lasting indefinitely isn‘t the same as infinitely but still..

Yeah, darn, that sucks. Hopefully it's not that, but if he had it a few months ago, that diagnosis makes sense :(. Hopefully it's something else, but either way, I hope he recovers. He seems like a good guy.

[RC_Drunkford]

I would like something more similar to Vassell's contract:

2026 -- $50 Million
2027 -- $45 Million
2028 -- $50 Million
2029 -- $55 Million

Total: $200 Million

That maximizes the savings during the 2027-2028 season which is the first year Wemby's extension kicks in. If the Spurs happen to have a third star whose potential final contract is set to expire that season, they'd have their best chance of keeping everyone together for that season before transitioning to the much smaller contract Castle would be eligible to sign. Thus the team is able to remain financially responsible Yes, these are fake round numbers, but the basic structure. I haven't done some multi-year cap analysis yet, but there should still be a chance that they keep Vassell through that whole stretch. If Devin can make a Wiggins-like pivot to be a high-quality role-player, his contract would be fine, and if folks view him as a negative contract, the Spurs shouldn't be paying extra to move him at this time.

thanks, I was thinking the same. That type of deal would make the most sense. Vassell's contract could be quite valuable in his last 2 years, if he ever becomes a top 4 player on the team.

I made my cap sheet to figure this out. It looks like in the first year of Wemby's max extension, we should have enough cap room. Where it gets tight is 2028 if Castle signs a 25% max.

Sochan's extension should be frontloaded and I also think that if we add free agents in 2026 they should try doing that as well. The key is getting top role players on good value deals.

[DPG21920]

Fox trade value shouldn't be lower once he signs a max extension because, if a team trade for him now, they know they will have to sign him to that contract once eligible (6 months after the trade). His trade value should be a little higher because the uncertainty of him leaving for nothing via FA will be gone.
If Fox get injured and/or sucks, Spurs could be, in theory, trapped with his contract. Fox has played well and has been quite healthy over the past 5 years, so it's quite unlikely to happen.

With the new TV deal, all contracts are now declining ones. Contracts can raise up top 8% of the first year salary. Salary cap will raise by a compounded 10% per year. For a 4 years contract like for Fox, Salary in the last year will be 124% of the first year salary while the cap will raise by 133.1% in the same span. His salary will go from 30% of the cap to 27.9% of the cap.

Fox max extension will be the following:
2026-2027: $51M
2027-2028: $55.1M
2028-2029: $59.2M
2029-2030: $63.2M

Harper potential first deal will start in 2029-2030. $63.2M for Fox is a lot but, in 2029-2030, the luxury tax threshold will be at $275.1M, first apron at $286.9M and second apron at $304.3M.

Spurs drafting Harper makes it less likely that Fox takes a pay-cut on his extension. Fox obviously knows that if Harper is great and they struggle fitting together, he might be traded in 1 or 2 years. I doubt he takes a pay-cut in that situation.

Great post and perspective and agree it’s unlikely. But imo spurs need to really be considering this given their luck. Small favors and loyalties make sense but I don’t think it’s a no brainer situation. Getting Flagg would have made this so much cleaner lol

And Sa may make a trade(s) that clear it up too. But overall as things stand I don’t see it as a no brainer. It’s a decent decision even if I like Fox and think it will be ok and work out overall.

Fox + Castle + Harper is fun imo

[KobesAchilles]

Do you think Boston takes any calls on Jayson Tatum?

[CGD]

The Fox extension likely got more complicated because to the pick. As was noted above, Fox now has little incentive to take a dollar less if his theoretical understudy (a fellow lefty btw) is now on the roster. Meanwhile the Spurs probably have more leverage to push for a modest discount for the same reason.

The Klutch’s role is overstated in my view. They want access to the Vic machine more than they care about Fox, tbh.

Something to watch.

[LeBowen]

Do you think Boston takes any calls on Jayson Tatum?

No chance, they're an organization with certain values, similar to Spurs.
Tatum is untouchable and Brown will be traded only if there's a big overpay and he agrees to go.
I'd say Derrick is also safe.

KP and Jrue are most definitely gone.
Hauser would be a good target if he's available for a reasonable price, but I don't see why would the Celtics do it.

[LeBowen]

A random thought, but it somewhat makes sense.

Spurs:
Washington, Gafford, Powell (salary match)

Mavs:
Jrue, '30 swap returned.

Celtics:
Vassell, Wesley, '28 swap returned.

Spurs solve their wing/big issues with two great value players, assuming they'd both agree to extensions.
Celtics get a valuable swap back and a true shooting guard, with Wesley being a solid defender on an expiring deal. They development staff seems to work miracles when it comes to broken jumpshots, maybe he'd develop into an actual NBA player.
Mavs get a valuable swap back and fill their most pressing need while Kyrie is out and Jrue can also play together with him. Yes, they'd get older, but I doubt those two players want to extend with them considering they'll be behind AD/Lively/Flagg in the rotation.

Fox/Harper
Castle/#14
Barnes/Champagnie
Washington/Jeremy
Wemby/Gafford

That's as functional as it gets.
Get another bench shooter if #14 is a project.
I excluded Keldon because I'm done with him, but he'd also be around. :lol

[mo7888]

A random thought, but it somewhat makes sense.

Spurs:
Washington, Gafford, Powell (salary match)

Mavs:
Jrue, '30 swap returned.

Celtics:
Vassell, Wesley, '28 swap returned.

Spurs solve their wing/big issues with two great value players, assuming they'd both agree to extensions.
Celtics get a valuable swap back and a true shooting guard, with Wesley being a solid defender on an expiring deal. They development staff seems to work miracles when it comes to broken jumpshots, maybe he'd develop into an actual NBA player.
Mavs get a valuable swap back and fill their most pressing need while Kyrie is out and Jrue can also play together with him. Yes, they'd get older, but I doubt those two players want to extend with them considering they'll be behind AD/Lively/Flagg in the rotation.

Fox/Harper
Castle/#14
Barnes/Champagnie
Washington/Jeremy
Wemby/Gafford

That's as functional as it gets.
Get another bench shooter if #14 is a project.
I excluded Keldon because I'm done with him, but he'd also be around. :lol

I wouldn't do that. I'm not giving up those swaps in a minor deal like that. Honestly, I'd probably do it without giving up the swaps, but I really think we should receive more compensation for greasing the skids on a deal that benefits the mavs and Celtics more than us.

[LeBowen]

I wouldn't do that. I'm not giving up those swaps in a minor deal like that. Honestly, I'd probably do it without giving up the swaps, but I really think we should receive more compensation for greasing the skids on a deal that benefits the mavs and Celtics more than us.

I don't think '28 BOS swap is that valuable. Brad Stevens is one of the best GMs in the league and Celtics will surely stay a contender.
Tatum just turned 27, even if he doesn't fully recover from his injury, he'll still be an all-star. Brown will be 31 and Derrick will be 33.
Still a top3 team in the East for sure. If he decides to trade either of those two, he'll surely get a haul and be back to competing in a year.

Mavs swap lost a lot of value after the lottery. It's valuable, but not to the same extent.
Washington and Gafford would make an instant impact for us and be the best role players on the team.

If we could extend both of them for around 40 to 45 million a year, I'd do that deal without hesitation.

[mo7888]

I don't think '28 BOS swap is that valuable. Brad Stevens is one of the best GMs in the league and Celtics will surely stay a contender.
Tatum just turned 27, even if he doesn't fully recover from his injury, he'll still be an all-star. Brown will be 31 and Derrick will be 33.
Still a top3 team in the East for sure. If he decides to trade either of those two, he'll surely get a haul and be back to competing in a year.

Mavs swap lost a lot of value after the lottery. It's valuable, but not to the same extent.
Washington and Gafford would make an instant impact for us and be the best role players on the team.

If we could extend both of them for around 40 to 45 million a year, I'd do that deal without hesitation.

I just think the swap are worth more in today's nba. It makes our picks in those years more valuable if we want to make a bigger acquisition. I also would discount Nico's ability to screw this up even more or Bostons ability to keep things positive with a Jalen Brown who looks like he's slowing down due to meniscus issue and an uncertain recovery for Tatum. That's just how I see it. I like PJ and Gafford, but they're just role players to me.

[spurraider21]

Naz Reid is fucking terrible. Dude is soft as shit. No back to the basket game whatsoever and he's getting pushed around and out-rebounded by guards. If he's not hitting his 3's, he's completely useless.
he's a nice player. i dno about the 30+ mil stuff

[Extra Stout]

I just think the swap are worth more in today's nba. It makes our picks in those years more valuable if we want to make a bigger acquisition. I also would discount Nico's ability to screw this up even more or Bostons ability to keep things positive with a Jalen Brown who looks like he's slowing down due to meniscus issue and an uncertain recovery for Tatum. That's just how I see it. I like PJ and Gafford, but they're just role players to me.
PJ and Gafford basically unlock the Spurs the same way Hartenstein and Caruso unlocked the Thunder.

[mo7888]

PJ and Gafford basically unlock the Spurs the same way Hartenstein and Caruso unlocked the Thunder.

Yea... I don't see that...

[CGD]

I just think the swap are worth more in today's nba. It makes our picks in those years more valuable if we want to make a bigger acquisition. I also would discount Nico's ability to screw this up even more or Bostons ability to keep things positive with a Jalen Brown who looks like he's slowing down due to meniscus issue and an uncertain recovery for Tatum. That's just how I see it. I like PJ and Gafford, but they're just role players to me.

100%

[scott]

Saw this one on Reddit. I love it for the Spurs... feedback from Mavs fans is that while they'd like to keep Christie, they'd do this deal (apparently they are higher on Vassell than I am)

https://i.imgur.com/v728oXr.png

https://preview.redd.it/measured-and-grounded-trade-ideas-v0-aecxkxvke12f1.png?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&fa7e5828

[Guru of Nothing]

I like. What kind of extension do you extend to Washington? He's an expiring.

[scott]

I like. What kind of extension do you extend to Washington? He's an expiring.

I'd honestly be okay with just playing wait and see with Washington. Even if we lost him for nothing (or in a S&T the next year), we still get the benefit of clearing Vassell's contract off the roster. Christie looks like a capable backup 2 on a cheap deal, and Hardy basically just takes Wesley's.

[spurraider21]

yeah... Devin for PJ and Christie sounds good for sure. Mavs do need some backcourt juice with Kyrie out if they want to make any sort of noise in the last years of AD's prime. a trade could light a fire under Vassell's ass as well, as he cant just coast as he hitches his wagon to wemby for his career.

christie is a solid backup guard on a nice contract. PJ gives us a lot of what we need as a true wing with size, length, athleticism, defense, rebounding. his shooting is kind of hit or miss year to year but overall is a reasonable shooter

its a shame Vassell's development has taken the arc is has. he should have been a good man defender and elite team defender, and in his first two years we saw he could actually deliver on that end. but it is what it is, he cant be relied upon to be a winning role player. at least not now. maybe his game matures as he ages some more and he buys into a role, but he's just not there right now.

if vassell was coached by the version of pop we saw in the 2010s, i think he would have turned out a lot better

[RC_Drunkford]

No chance, they're an organization with certain values, similar to Spurs.
Tatum is untouchable and Brown will be traded only if there's a big overpay and he agrees to go.
I'd say Derrick is also safe.

KP and Jrue are most definitely gone.
Hauser would be a good target if he's available for a reasonable price, but I don't see why would the Celtics do it.

because Hauser is the only contract they can offload. Brooklyn is the only team with significant cap space and they most likely won't trade for Holiday or Porzingis. So Boston will have to trade them separately and try to get less salary back in each deal to get under the apron. Hauser is the one guy they can trade without getting any contracts back in return.

[RC_Drunkford]

I just think the swap are worth more in today's nba. It makes our picks in those years more valuable if we want to make a bigger acquisition. I also would discount Nico's ability to screw this up even more or Bostons ability to keep things positive with a Jalen Brown who looks like he's slowing down due to meniscus issue and an uncertain recovery for Tatum. That's just how I see it. I like PJ and Gafford, but they're just role players to me.

PJ Washington is the best role player level PF out there up for grabs tbh. Especially if you're trying to beat OKC. By far my number 1 target for the 4 spot next to Wemby.


PJ and Gafford basically unlock the Spurs the same way Hartenstein and Caruso unlocked the Thunder.

that part and they both only 26 years old


I like. What kind of extension do you extend to Washington? He's an expiring.

4 years 100 million on a declining contract. Preferably less than that, but contracts grow as the cap grows. That's Vassell money for a player who's better than Devin.

[spurraider21]

because Hauser is the only contract they can offload. Brooklyn is the only team with significant cap space and they most likely won't trade for Holiday or Porzingis. So Boston will have to trade them separately and try to get less salary back in each deal to get under the apron. Hauser is the one guy they can trade without getting any contracts back in return.
jaylen brown to brooklyn?

[RC_Drunkford]

jaylen brown to brooklyn?

I doubt that they move him. That would be the other option and allow them to keep everybody else, but I'm not sure they are willing to break up the Tatum/Brown tandem.

[LeBowen]

because Hauser is the only contract they can offload. Brooklyn is the only team with significant cap space and they most likely won't trade for Holiday or Porzingis. So Boston will have to trade them separately and try to get less salary back in each deal to get under the apron. Hauser is the one guy they can trade without getting any contracts back in return.

I still think Stevens will find a way to get rid of at least one of KP/Jrue and take less money in return.
Porzingis shouldn't be that hard to trade, it's an expiring contract and he's still good when healthy.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I still think Stevens will find a way to get rid of at least one of KP/Jrue and take less money in return.
Porzingis shouldn't be that hard to trade, it's an expiring contract and he's still good when healthy.

Moving only one contract for a smaller one isn't going to be nearly enough for them. They're $20 mil over the second apron and $40 million over the tax. They have to do everything they can to get below the tax and reset the repeater counter.

[scott]

yeah... Devin for PJ and Christie sounds good for sure. Mavs do need some backcourt juice with Kyrie out if they want to make any sort of noise in the last years of AD's prime. a trade could light a fire under Vassell's ass as well, as he cant just coast as he hitches his wagon to wemby for his career.

christie is a solid backup guard on a nice contract. PJ gives us a lot of what we need as a true wing with size, length, athleticism, defense, rebounding. his shooting is kind of hit or miss year to year but overall is a reasonable shooter

its a shame Vassell's development has taken the arc is has. he should have been a good man defender and elite team defender, and in his first two years we saw he could actually deliver on that end. but it is what it is, he cant be relied upon to be a winning role player. at least not now. maybe his game matures as he ages some more and he buys into a role, but he's just not there right now.

if vassell was coached by the version of pop we saw in the 2010s, i think he would have turned out a lot better

I think Devin's career arc is one of those hidden costs of tanking. He was forged in the fires of suckage, asked to be a primary option and started to fall in love with the smell of his own shit. Had he been developed as part of a winning team with a more defined offensive role and higher expectations on the defensive end, he may have developed into the 3&D guy we thought we were drafting. Instead, now his defense has suffered as he refined his offensive game... but his offensive game has only developed into a C-level primary scoring option without any real evidence he can be an effective 4th/5th option (which is what we need him to be). Years of being a tank commander have forged him solidly into... a tank commander. It's hard to break away from that, and it's not entirely his fault.

It would be interesting to look at teams that made the transition from tank mode to contending and how much roster continuity they maintained. My hypothesis is that teams generally shed themselves of all the remnants of those tanking teams, from the FO and coaching staff all the way down to the roster. The Spurs are going about it differently, trying to retain all of those things.

[RC_Drunkford]

I still think Stevens will find a way to get rid of at least one of KP/Jrue and take less money in return.
Porzingis shouldn't be that hard to trade, it's an expiring contract and he's still good when healthy.

that won't cut it. They would have to basically send KP to the Nets for a fake 2nd round pick. If Brooklyn says no then you trade KP's 30 million for players worth 22, Holiday's 32 for 24 and offload Hauser's 10 to free up 26 million for example. That's the only way to go about it unless they trade Brown to Brooklyn. And if my math is correct they actually need to get rid of 35 million worth in contracts to get under the luxury tax.

I assume they will try to keep Tatum/Brown/White/Pritchard and try to move those 3 I mentioned prior.

[RC_Drunkford]

I think Devin's career arc is one of those hidden costs of tanking. He was forged in the fires of suckage, asked to be a primary option and started to fall in love with the smell of his own shit. Had he been developed as part of a winning team with a more defined offensive role and higher expectations on the defensive end, he may have developed into the 3&D guy we thought we were drafting. Instead, now his defense has suffered as he refined his offensive game... but his offensive game has only developed into a C-level primary scoring option without any real evidence he can be an effective 4th/5th option (which is what we need him to be). Years of being a tank commander have forged him solidly into... a tank commander. It's hard to break away from that, and it's not entirely his fault.

It would be interesting to look at teams that made the transition from tank mode to contending and how much roster continuity they maintained. My hypothesis is that teams generally shed themselves of all the remnants of those tanking teams, from the FO and coaching staff all the way down to the roster. The Spurs are going about it differently, trying to retain all of those things.

it's kinda crazy if you think about scouts comparing his defense to Iguodala coming out of college. This really has to be due to coaching and those bad defensive schemes we were running while tanking. I think he just built a lot of bad habits defensively during those seasons.

[Atl Spur]

Hauser could work for us.

[exstatic]

PJ and Gafford basically unlock the Spurs the same way Hartenstein and Caruso unlocked the Thunder.

The Thunder had already been to the second round. We haven’t even been in the playoffs. Not the time for finishing touches, since we haven’t even started in the playoffs.

[ginobilized]

Saw this one on Reddit. I love it for the Spurs... feedback from Mavs fans is that while they'd like to keep Christie, they'd do this deal (apparently they are higher on Vassell than I am)

https://i.imgur.com/v728oXr.png

https://preview.redd.it/measured-and-grounded-trade-ideas-v0-aecxkxvke12f1.png?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&fa7e5828

This is pure gold!
Christie fits better (not a ball-stopper/high IQ) than Vassell AND we get PJ Washington.
Get a solid vet backup center, draft Harper and a big and call it an off season. Thin the herd a bit during training camp by off-loading Branham and/or Wesley.
That's starting to look like a real team.

[LeBowen]

The Thunder had already been to the second round. We haven’t even been in the playoffs. Not the time for finishing touches, since we haven’t even started in the playoffs.

Having a backup big wouldn't be a finishing touch for us because we literally can't function as a team with current options.
Rebounding is the biggest issue even with Wemby on the floor and these two players would solve just that.

I said it many times, there are just too many variables that need to allign when trading for someone, if most are there, you have to go for it.
Ability
Role
Personality
Health
Contract length
Salary
Trade cost

Washington and Gafford can be had for fairly cheap because they're expiring contracts and don't have an incentive to extend with Dallas.
They won't get overpaid and they're behind Flagg/AD/Lively. No player with ambition would want to stay in that situation.

[scott]

Trade Idea of the Day... let's make it a little spicy and say the Pelicans really want Harper.

https://i.imgur.com/lYJLhaH.png

[mo7888]

Trade Idea of the Day... let's make it a little spicy and say the Pelicans really want Harper.

https://i.imgur.com/lYJLhaH.png

I'm sticking with Harper, but I'd have to really think about that one...

[ambchang]

Trade Idea of the Day... let's make it a little spicy and say the Pelicans really want Harper.

https://i.imgur.com/lYJLhaH.png

Love the mavs trade earlier, but I’m not trading Harper for a 7th pick and Trey Murphy III and herb jones. TMIII, while nice, is a role player. 14-39 when he played.

Liked getting 7 back, and HJ. I like TM3 too but giving up Harper is too much. Loved getting rid of vassell though.

[scott]

Love the mavs trade earlier, but I’m not trading Harper for a 7th pick and Trey Murphy III and herb jones. TMIII, while nice, is a role player. 14-39 when he played.

Liked getting 7 back, and HJ. I like TM3 too but giving up Harper is too much. Loved getting rid of vassell though.

It's that second unprotected FRP from NOP that makes it spicy for me... NOP is one of those teams that can't get out of their own way and it would always be nice to have some of their assets. With that said, I don't want to trade away from Harper either... just like posting these daily ideas as thought experiments to get the conversation going.

[RC_Drunkford]

would love something like

Fox/Harper/Wesley
Castle/Champagnie
Vassell/Barnes
PJ Washington/Sochan/Fleming
Wemby/Adams/Kalkbrenner

or

Fox/Harper/Wesley
Castle/Champagnie/Branham
Barnes/Keldon/Coward
PJ Washington/Sochan
Wemby/Gafford/Kalkbrenner

those type of rosters could really make noise in the playoffs

[CGD]

Love the mavs trade earlier, but I’m not trading Harper for a 7th pick and Trey Murphy III and herb jones. TMIII, while nice, is a role player. 14-39 when he played.

Liked getting 7 back, and HJ. I like TM3 too but giving up Harper is too much. Loved getting rid of vassell though.

You can’t talk about ST darling, TM3, like that around these parts. Watch your back!

[CGD]

Let's assume SA is going in for Giannis. Who says no?

MIL: #2, #3, George
PHI: Dev; Keldon; #14
SAS: Giannis

Honestly, I don't think MIL could reasonably expect a better deal. Philly gets of PG and takes #14 to make the medicine go down easier.

[mo7888]

Let's assume SA is going in for Giannis. Who says no?

MIL: #2, #3, George
PHI: Dev; Keldon; #14
SAS: Giannis

Honestly, I don't think MIL could reasonably expect a better deal. Philly gets of PG and takes #14 to make the medicine go down easier.

It would just come down to if we really wanted Giannis that much. The other two probably do that deal.

[dbestpro]

I would sign Guerschon Yabusele and Brook Lopez as free agents. Send Johnson packing to Memphis for Kennard. Trade helps both teams regarding need. Maybe toss in a second round pick. Keep Vassel around to develop Harper. See where we are next year on trading Vassel and Sochan.

[scott]

would love something like

Fox/Harper/Wesley
Castle/Champagnie
Vassell/Barnes
PJ Washington/Sochan/Fleming
Wemby/Adams/Kalkbrenner

or

Fox/Harper/Wesley
Castle/Champagnie/Branham
Barnes/Keldon/Coward
PJ Washington/Sochan
Wemby/Gafford/Kalkbrenner

those type of rosters could really make noise in the playoffs

I like #2 a lot, but probably because I'm very interested in Coward and my feelings on Devin are known.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

It would just come down to if we really wanted Giannis that much. The other two probably do that deal.

I would do that if Giannis is 27.

Not now. He will have negative value in year 3 or even 2.

Big players with his mileage start to have injuries after 31 or 32.

[scott]

Crazy Trade Idea of the Day

Celtics start the process of shedding salary, pick up a pick and some swaps in the process, but lose an FRP to SA for facilitating. They do get a serviceable guard in Vassell and a capable big in Carter Jr.

ORL goes "all in" for a semi-star to pair with Paolo and Franz, costing them only some swaps, mostly to BOS but one to SA

Spurs move off Vassell's long term money for the two remaining years of KCP and Goga. The Swap we had previously from BOS turns into a pick, and we get another swap in 2031 from ORL.
https://i.imgur.com/g75W6v7.png

[Mal]

This would put Orlando for 150 mil for 3 players who are ball dominant winger.

[cd021]

I would sign Guerschon Yabusele and Brook Lopez as free agents. Send Johnson packing to Memphis for Kennard. Trade helps both teams regarding need. Maybe toss in a second round pick. Keep Vassel around to develop Harper. See where we are next year on trading Vassel and Sochan.

Agree on both, especially on Lopez. I'm surprised his name doesn't come up more with the Spurs. Reliable 3-point shooter and rim protector. Probably could extend his career a few more years by being a good backup. Lakers will probably go hard at him, but the Spurs could offer him more.

[baseline bum]

Let's assume SA is going in for Giannis. Who says no?

MIL: #2, #3, George
PHI: Dev; Keldon; #14
SAS: Giannis

Honestly, I don't think MIL could reasonably expect a better deal. Philly gets of PG and takes #14 to make the medicine go down easier.

Philly. PG13's contract is horrible but not so horrible you throw away the #3 pick to get off it, especially with Embiid's productive career likely over.

[poopbox]

This would put Orlando for 150 mil for 3 players who are ball dominant winger.

I mean if everything turns out right we are 3 years away from 3 of our top 4 players being ball dominant point guards...

[scott]

This would put Orlando for 150 mil for 3 players who are ball dominant winger.

Uncle Mickey will write the checks!

[CGD]

Philly. PG13's contract is horrible but not so horrible you throw away the #3 pick to get off it, especially with Embiid's productive career likely over.

If Ace was more of a sure thing I'd agree, but is he really a sure fire thing there? Here at least they still get a chance at drafting something decent at 14 (Fleming, Bryant, Denim, Essengue, etc.), and our guys would theoretically give them more than George did around Embiid.

Maxey
Dev
Keldon
Yabu
Embiid

Assuming health, that team gets into the playoffs in the LEast next season.

[spurraider21]

isnt this a stepien violation for boston?

[R. DeMurre]

Love the mavs trade earlier, but I’m not trading Harper for a 7th pick and Trey Murphy III and herb jones. TMIII, while nice, is a role player. 14-39 when he played.


I agree with the assessment of TMlll as a role player, but that's exactly the position he'd fill alongside Wemby, Fox, Castle, etc... I wouldn't hold it against him that the Pelicans didn't thrive after all of their injuries forced him to be the leader in minutes on the team.

[baseline bum]

If Ace was more of a sure thing I'd agree, but is he really a sure fire thing there? Here at least they still get a chance at drafting something decent at 14 (Fleming, Bryant, Denim, Essengue, etc.), and our guys would theoretically give them more than George did around Embiid.

Maxey
Dev
Keldon
Yabu
Embiid

Assuming health, that team gets into the playoffs in the LEast next season.

I wouldn't draft Ace; I'd pick VJ at #3 in their shoes.

[scott]

isnt this a stepien violation for boston?

Sure enough, this would be because their 2029 pick is going to POR or WAS. Weird that Spotrac let me do this, they're usually on top of things.

[scott]

I agree with the assessment of TMlll as a role player, but that's exactly the position he'd fill alongside Wemby, Fox, Castle, etc... I wouldn't hold it against him that the Pelicans didn't thrive after all of their injuries forced him to be the leader in minutes on the team.

Good point... at some point, one of Fox, Castle or Harper (and maybe two of them) will either need to be a role player themselves or be off the team. With that said, I am also of the mindset that we should be focused on acquiring star-capable talent, and letting the chips fall where they may. I think it's premature to assume Castle will be a star, so adding more star potential in Harper makes a ton of sense.

[Ariel]

I loved Trey Murphy and Deni Avdija the past couple of years, but got shot down here. Trey was coming back from injury and Washington was pivoting to a tank, perfect buy low opportunity, too bad Spurs didn't see that at the time. Now one player I like who I think has potential and may be had is Jarace Walker, shooting and playmaking potential, strong build, crazy wingspan. Indiana is deep enough Jarace is somewhat hidden, but they could use a versatile defender like Sochan and better hide his offensive shortcomings. If Spurs don't love anyone at 14, I might offer Sochan + 14 for Jarace Walker + 23

[scott]

I loved Trey Murphy and Deni Avdija the past couple of years, but got shot down here. Trey was coming back from injury and Washington was pivoting to a tank, perfect buy low opportunity, too bad Spurs didn't see that at the time. Now one player I like who I think has potential and may be had is Jarace Walker, shooting and playmaking potential, strong build, crazy wingspan. Indiana is deep enough Jarace is somewhat hidden, but they could use a versatile defender like Sochan and better hide his offensive shortcomings. If Spurs don't love anyone at 14, I might offer Sochan + 14 for Jarace Walker + 23

You've got mo7888 and me already in the Jarace Walker fanclub. Free Jarace!

[BatManu20]

I don't like watching Naz Reid play basketball. At one point I thought I wanted him as a Spur. He's been exposed in these Playoffs. Terribly soft defender and even softer on the boards at 6'10. Only good if he's wide open from 3 and even then he's streaky. Not worth nearly the money he's going to command tbh.

[exstatic]

I loved Trey Murphy and Deni Avdija the past couple of years, but got shot down here. Trey was coming back from injury and Washington was pivoting to a tank, perfect buy low opportunity, too bad Spurs didn't see that at the time. Now one player I like who I think has potential and may be had is Jarace Walker, shooting and playmaking potential, strong build, crazy wingspan. Indiana is deep enough Jarace is somewhat hidden, but they could use a versatile defender like Sochan and better hide his offensive shortcomings. If Spurs don't love anyone at 14, I might offer Sochan + 14 for Jarace Walker + 23
Deni Avdja was salary dumped to Portland, and May be nothing but a tank commander.

[Ice009]

He's f-ing horrible. No way to I want him at all now.

[Ariel]

Deni Avdja was salary dumped to Portland, and May be nothing but a tank commander.
:lol what? he was absolutely NOT salary dumped, he has one of the best value contracts in the league. And I don't think you've been watching Deni much for the past couple of years, if that's what you think of him. He's been so far ahead of any forward we currently have, it's not even funny. It's probably in this very thread.

[mo7888]

You've got mo7888 and me already in the Jarace Walker fanclub. Free Jarace!

Yes! Yes!

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyVUJ9x4imQ

[Ice009]

Not interested in Naz Reid, Yabusle now that I've had a closer look at them. Not sure about Bobby Portis (a lot of people say the Spurs won't sign him due to character not fitting the Spurs culture?) or Clint Capela as I haven't taken a closer look at them. Clint Capela is definitely interesting, though. Was he injured towards the end of the season?

[scott]

I kind of like a guy who I always used to confuse with Bobby Portis, Chris Boucher from TOR, as a potential backup big... but he may like playing at home in Canada.

[objective]

Been toying around with a Vassell to Milwaukee trade

Basically a sign-and-trade of Brook Lopez to SA along with another player like Connaughton to make salary work if you can get Brook on a 2/30 deal.

Spent a while reading the cbafaq and didn't see any reason why another player couldn't be involved in a sign-and-trade like Connaughton.

Spurs get a back up center who while old and declining should still be able to play some off the bench and even with Wemby and an expiring Connaughton. And get off Vasselll's money. Brook may have been played off the flokr by Indiana at 15 mpg, but that was after a long season of over 30 mpg. With SA, he'd beel down to 20 mpg, 25 tops.

Meanwhile Vassell might be just the type of player Milwaukee needs to convince Giannis to stick around. He's young, he's previously averaged 20 points a game, and he's allegedly a shooter and defender. He's like a poor man's Middleton if you squint hard enough while holding your breath. They might be all about it, and he's a lot better than most other players available when Milwaukee has no first founders to trade Even if they trade Giannis later, Vassell is young enough to stick around and tank command or could rebuild some value and get moved later.

[Ice009]

I was interested in Brook Lopez anyway, so if you can get off of Vassell's contract, I think I'd be all for it. Does it look like Brook has anything left in the tank, though?

[objective]

:lol what? he was absolutely NOT salary dumped, he has one of the best value contracts in the league. And I don't think you've been watching Deni much for the past couple of years, if that's what you think of him. He's been so far ahead of any forward we currently have, it's not even funny. It's probably in this very thread.

Agreed.

He wasn't dumped, they got the 1st rounder late lotto they took Carrington with and get another unprotected first in 2029, second most favorable of Portland, Milwaukee, and Boston. So while it can never be #1 as it's the second most favorable, it could still be a lottery pick

[objective]

I was interested in Brook Lopez anyway, so if you can get off of Vassell's contract, I think I'd be all for it. Does it look like Brook has anything left in the tank, though?

He might not, especially if he has to chase little guys everywhere and run up and down every play.

But there's a chance that with less workload he'll still be a good regular season player. And Milwaukee has zero defense on the perimeter putting up a fight to give him time to arrive in time to help. Presumably between Fox, Castle, Harper, and other players the Spurs won't be as easy to penetrate against

But yeah, he could be washed. That's the risk.

[Ice009]

I was all for this two years ago, but just not sure if he's washed up or not. I guess the Spurs will have to make the determination as I'm sure they'll take a look at him again since the were interested a couple of years ago.

[scott]

Been toying around with a Vassell to Milwaukee trade

Basically a sign-and-trade of Brook Lopez to SA along with another player like Connaughton to make salary work if you can get Brook on a 2/30 deal.

Spent a while reading the cbafaq and didn't see any reason why another player couldn't be involved in a sign-and-trade like Connaughton.

Spurs get a back up center who while old and declining should still be able to play some off the bench and even with Wemby and an expiring Connaughton. And get off Vasselll's money. Brook may have been played off the flokr by Indiana at 15 mpg, but that was after a long season of over 30 mpg. With SA, he'd beel down to 20 mpg, 25 tops.

Meanwhile Vassell might be just the type of player Milwaukee needs to convince Giannis to stick around. He's young, he's previously averaged 20 points a game, and he's allegedly a shooter and defender. He's like a poor man's Middleton if you squint hard enough while holding your breath. They might be all about it, and he's a lot better than most other players available when Milwaukee has no first founders to trade Even if they trade Giannis later, Vassell is young enough to stick around and tank command or could rebuild some value and get moved later.

I do think Vassell is a good fit in MIL if they keep Giannis... or a good fit next to Giannis wherever he goes!

[montgod]

he's a nice player. i dno about the 30+ mil stuff

Yeah I think he won't go anywhere cause I can't see another team paying him that except for MIN unless he continues to be underwhelming. Feel like Spurs would be out on him

[montgod]

He might not, especially if he has to chase little guys everywhere and run up and down every play.

But there's a chance that with less workload he'll still be a good regular season player. And Milwaukee has zero defense on the perimeter putting up a fight to give him time to arrive in time to help. Presumably between Fox, Castle, Harper, and other players the Spurs won't be as easy to penetrate against

But yeah, he could be washed. That's the risk.

Kind of feel like Portis would be a better fit than Lopez. He also will bring a hard nosed no nonsense game similar to Dort

[scott]

Yeah I think he won't go anywhere cause I can't see another team paying him that except for MIN unless he continues to be underwhelming. Feel like Spurs would be out on him

I can see BKN signing Naz to a front-loaded overpay. They've got a salary floor to meet and Naz seems exactly like the kind of tank commander to take the reigns from Cam Johnson as they flip him for assets. Naz is also a local kid, so it would be a homecoming for him.

[scott]

Trade idea of the day:

Celtics pay the #28 pick to offload Tingus. Spotrac says this gets them below the 2nd Apron (this is a 2024-25 league year trade, before the draft). This would allow them to aggregate players in subsequent trades to stay below the 2nd apron and try to get below the tax ahead of the 2025-26 League Year. With Tatum out for the year (I assume), might be a good year for Boston to regroup.

Spurs take a flier on Tingus. If he can get healthy, maybe he's a useful player for us or maybe we flip him at the deadline to a contender. We can use #28 on one of the many late first prospects a lot of us like but who likely won't make it to #38.
https://i.imgur.com/uUwdJ1m.png

[CGD]

Trade idea of the day:

Celtics pay the #28 pick to offload Tingus. Spotrac says this gets them below the 2nd Apron (this is a 2024-25 league year trade, before the draft). This would allow them to aggregate players in subsequent trades to stay below the 2nd apron and try to get below the tax ahead of the 2025-26 League Year. With Tatum out for the year (I assume), might be a good year for Boston to regroup.

Spurs take a flier on Tingus. If he can get healthy, maybe he's a useful player for us or maybe we flip him at the deadline to a contender. We can use #28 on one of the many late first prospects a lot of us like but who likely won't make it to #38.
https://i.imgur.com/uUwdJ1m.png

Think I'd just rather keep Keldon for another trade. Now if Boston gave us some distant asset I'd consider it.

[montgod]

I can see BKN signing Naz to a front-loaded overpay. They've got a salary floor to meet and Naz seems exactly like the kind of tank commander to take the reigns from Cam Johnson as they flip him for assets. Naz is also a local kid, so it would be a homecoming for him.

All power to you if you can see anything regarding BKN and definitive direction with only Claxton and Johnson as their only notable players. If there was a true rumor for Giannis being interested, I could see them ramp up and try to get some players to surround him. Otherwise, like you said, I can't see them doing much but tanking for another season and/or being trade conduits for other teams. Not sure I see them targeting Reid, but he is only 25 so maybe.

[scott]

All power to you if you can see anything regarding BKN and definitive direction with only Claxton and Johnson as their only notable players. If there was a true rumor for Giannis being interested, I could see them ramp up and try to get some players to surround him. Otherwise, like you said, I can't see them doing much but tanking for another season and/or being trade conduits for other teams. Not sure I see them targeting Reid, but he is only 25 so maybe.

The thought process here is that signing Naz to a significant, but front-loaded deal will help them reach the salary floor while the front loaded nature of his deal (which no one else has the cap space to offer) will make him an attractive trade asset. If Naz signs early, he'll be eligible to be traded as soon as Dec 15, at which team BKN can cash in by sending him to a playoff contender who could use him and wants to move off some less attractive deals, whereby BKN gets more draft capital.

It not a straight forward strategy, but one that a team like BKN might consider.

Edit: I would also call Cam Thomas a notable player that BKN will most certainly retain. He's a flawed player, but is the kind of microwave scorer that other teams might eventually want to trade for as a 6th man assuming BKN doesn't mess it up by overpaying him so that he becomes too expensive for his proper role (which is that 6th man, IMO).

[spurraider21]

lol any trade where the spurs land Porzingis and dont have to pay for him is an instant accept. im not at all convinced he has negative value on an expiring deal. so yeah, if we get him and a first for freaking keldon im catching a flight to boston and driving KP to the airport

[RC_Drunkford]

Trade idea of the day:

Celtics pay the #28 pick to offload Tingus. Spotrac says this gets them below the 2nd Apron (this is a 2024-25 league year trade, before the draft). This would allow them to aggregate players in subsequent trades to stay below the 2nd apron and try to get below the tax ahead of the 2025-26 League Year. With Tatum out for the year (I assume), might be a good year for Boston to regroup.

Spurs take a flier on Tingus. If he can get healthy, maybe he's a useful player for us or maybe we flip him at the deadline to a contender. We can use #28 on one of the many late first prospects a lot of us like but who likely won't make it to #38.


Keldon + Branham or Wesley is also who I'd try to move first. I wouldn't mind that one, but would much rather work out a deal where I can get John Collins or PJ Washington as my starting PF. Or you take Porzingis and package that pick + other guys to get that PF afterwards.

[scott]

lol any trade where the spurs land Porzingis and dont have to pay for him is an instant accept. im not at all convinced he has negative value on an expiring deal. so yeah, if we get him and a first for freaking keldon im catching a flight to boston and driving KP to the airport

That's my mindset as well. Seems like Boston fans just want to dump this guy and are willing to use #28 to do so (because they can't take that guaranteed salary either)

[LeBowen]

That's my mindset as well. Seems like Boston fans just want to dump this guy and are willing to use #28 to do so (because they can't take that guaranteed salary either)

I'd do it just to get rid of Keldon. :lol
And Spurs might just do it because even though Keldon is a fan favorite, they'd be fine with sending him to a great organization.
They'd never dump him to the Hornets or similar.

[mo7888]

Trade idea of the day:

Celtics pay the #28 pick to offload Tingus. Spotrac says this gets them below the 2nd Apron (this is a 2024-25 league year trade, before the draft). This would allow them to aggregate players in subsequent trades to stay below the 2nd apron and try to get below the tax ahead of the 2025-26 League Year. With Tatum out for the year (I assume), might be a good year for Boston to regroup.

Spurs take a flier on Tingus. If he can get healthy, maybe he's a useful player for us or maybe we flip him at the deadline to a contender. We can use #28 on one of the many late first prospects a lot of us like but who likely won't make it to #38.
https://i.imgur.com/uUwdJ1m.png

You son of a bitch...I'm in...

[objective]

Trade idea of the day:

Celtics pay the #28 pick to offload Tingus. Spotrac says this gets them below the 2nd Apron (this is a 2024-25 league year trade, before the draft). This would allow them to aggregate players in subsequent trades to stay below the 2nd apron and try to get below the tax ahead of the 2025-26 League Year. With Tatum out for the year (I assume), might be a good year for Boston to regroup.

Spurs take a flier on Tingus. If he can get healthy, maybe he's a useful player for us or maybe we flip him at the deadline to a contender. We can use #28 on one of the many late first prospects a lot of us like but who likely won't make it to #38.
https://i.imgur.com/uUwdJ1m.png

Pretty sure Boston would still be over the 2nd apron even doing a porzingus for keldon and wesley deal.

I have them around 210 or 211 in that scenario with only 10 players, 2nd apron is at 207 allegedly.

[scott]

Pretty sure Boston would still be over the 2nd apron even doing a porzingus for keldon and wesley deal.

I have them around 210 or 211 in that scenario with only 10 players, 2nd apron is at 207 allegedly.

This would be a 2024-25 League Year Trade, where they currently have $193MM in apron allocations and the 2nd Apron at $189MM. So this indeed would pull them under the 2nd apron and allow them to make some aggregation deals before the new league year starts on July 1.

[RC_Drunkford]

Pretty sure Boston would still be over the 2nd apron even doing a porzingus for keldon and wesley deal.

I have them around 210 or 211 in that scenario with only 10 players, 2nd apron is at 207 allegedly.

they don’t have no other option unless Brooklyn takes on Porzingis whole contract for nothing in return. They will have to do the same with Holiday: trade him and get less salary back to slowly get under the tax. Offload Hauser and they will get there.

[Mal]

I mean if everything turns out right we are 3 years away from 3 of our top 4 players being ball dominant point guards...

There is a difference between doing big trade and be in this situation vs draft, luck out lottery, trade for basically free and be in situation.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

This would be a 2024-25 League Year Trade, where they currently have $193MM in apron allocations and the 2nd Apron at $189MM. So this indeed would pull them under the 2nd apron and allow them to make some aggregation deals before the new league year starts on July 1.

Trades that are done between a team’s season end and July 1st use contract values for the following season, not the current one. Boston can’t do a 2024-2025 year trade. As such Spurs can’t do this trade because they’d need to add a slightly larger contract to make the salary matching numbers work and it won’t get Boston under the 2nd apron.

If they could do something like this they’d trade Porzingis for a player like FVV, who has a team option, then cut him and clear all of the salary from the books (Bill Simmons logic). Of course this is illegal.

[scott]

Trades that are done between a team’s season end and July 1st use contract values for the following season, not the current one. Boston can’t do a 2024-2025 year trade. As such Spurs can’t do this trade because they’d need to add a slightly larger contract to make the salary matching numbers work and it won’t get Boston under the 2nd apron.

If they could do something like this they’d trade Porzingis for a player like FVV, who has a team option, then cut him and clear all of the salary from the books (Bill Simmons logic). Of course this is illegal.

Thanks for clarifying... wish Spotrac would update their logic and remove 24-25 League Year trades from their machine if this is the case

[mo7888]

There are a few here that keep mentioning how Dallas might (small chance) take Harper #1. I don't see it, but they do have Nico so who knows. Anyway, my question is in that scenario and we take Flagg , what players would we target by trade, FA, draft, etc would we target to round out the team?

[Chinook]

There are a few here that keep mentioning how Dallas might (small chance) take Harper #1. I don't see it, but they do have Nico so who knows. Anyway, my question is in that scenario and we take Flagg , what players would we target by trade, FA, draft, etc would we target to round out the team?

I was going to say that I can't imagine a scenario where Dallas doesn't at least trade with the Spurs if they wanted Harper. But then I considered a scenario where the Spurs, realizing Dallas wanted Harper more than Flagg, convinced Dallas they were unwilling to trade up because they also thought Harper was the better prospect. Thus they'd make Dallas take Harper at 1 to guarantee the Mavs get him, and the Spurs would get Flagg without having to move up.

Honestly build Wright a statue if he pulled that off ... unless something actually ends up being wrong with Flagg.

[scott]

There are a few here that keep mentioning how Dallas might (small chance) take Harper #1. I don't see it, but they do have Nico so who knows. Anyway, my question is in that scenario and we take Flagg , what players would we target by trade, FA, draft, etc would we target to round out the team?

Oh this is fun. So we're assuming that the Mavs just take Harper and don't even milk us for any kind of asset?

My gut tells me that someone like McNeeley becomes more of a target... but the more I think of it, the more I can make cases for a lot of directions:



I would strongly consider Sorber or Queen here, even more than before. I want to invest not just in a backup C, but in high end, long-term Wemby insurance. The DVT was a freak thing, but the truth is that he's a 7'5" physical anomaly, and health problems sometimes follow these guys. I most certainly think that Flagg can be a building block should something happen to Wemby, so I want the ability to pivot to a Flagg/Castle core without having to pause and reset. Having a capable C to step right in goes a long way in doing that, IMO.
Someone like Jase Richardson might suddenly be in play. What about Nolan Traore? I'd say the same about Fears if he fell this far. But another high upside guard with scoring potential. They'd be a bench piece to start, grooming to fill in next to Castle once Fox's extension ends and he starts to decline. Honestly, might be too soon to be thinking that way... but I think we could use more scoring punch off the bench. Traore would be more of a big swing. Jaku and Demin could likewise be in play but less for the scoring punch and more to just be a capable backup PG
Otherwise, I think we just stick with the same thought process we have now - just add the best talent available. I'm assuming Flagg is a 4 for us, so a SF seems like the biggest need, but Flagg can also be a 3 in which case we still need the same type of 4 we've been talking about.
In FA, I think there are the same needs. Stretch PF, backup C.
This would be a lifeline for Vassell's Spurs career, IMO, as his pathway to big minutes remains open.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Thanks for clarifying... wish Spotrac would update their logic and remove 24-25 League Year trades from their machine if this is the case

I find the fanspo trade machine much better in this sense, although the UI is truly horrible.

[scott]

I find the fanspo trade machine much better in this sense, although the UI is truly horrible.

I have found the Fanspo logic to be off sometimes... I'll just need to remember to put Spotrac in 25-26 mode.

Spotrac also recently added a S&T feature, which is nice

[Em-City]

Do Boston get any concessions cap wise with a disabled player exemption for Tatum?

[mo7888]

Oh this is fun. So we're assuming that the Mavs just take Harper and don't even milk us for any kind of asset?

My gut tells me that someone like McNeeley becomes more of a target... but the more I think of it, the more I can make cases for a lot of directions:



I would strongly consider Sorber or Queen here, even more than before. I want to invest not just in a backup C, but in high end, long-term Wemby insurance. The DVT was a freak thing, but the truth is that he's a 7'5" physical anomaly, and health problems sometimes follow these guys. I most certainly think that Flagg can be a building block should something happen to Wemby, so I want the ability to pivot to a Flagg/Castle core without having to pause and reset. Having a capable C to step right in goes a long way in doing that, IMO.
Someone like Jase Richardson might suddenly be in play. What about Nolan Traore? I'd say the same about Fears if he fell this far. But another high upside guard with scoring potential. They'd be a bench piece to start, grooming to fill in next to Castle once Fox's extension ends and he starts to decline. Honestly, might be too soon to be thinking that way... but I think we could use more scoring punch off the bench. Traore would be more of a big swing. Jaku and Demin could likewise be in play but less for the scoring punch and more to just be a capable backup PG
Otherwise, I think we just stick with the same thought process we have now - just add the best talent available. I'm assuming Flagg is a 4 for us, so a SF seems like the biggest need, but Flagg can also be a 3 in which case we still need the same type of 4 we've been talking about.
In FA, I think there are the same needs. Stretch PF, backup C.
This would be a lifeline for Vassell's Spurs career, IMO, as his pathway to big minutes remains open.


I thought this might be a fun little thought exercise. In the draft i think it eliminates the Flemings of the world. I think we'd be looking at a 2/3 and a backup C. It's the trade/FA market that has me a little stumped. Maybe we resign CP3? Or another bench guard like a Trent Jr type? I'm just not sure...

[exstatic]

The fun thing is, SA can literally plug in either Harper or Flagg, and be good, but I’m pretty sure Dallas will be better with Harper than Flagg. They need a creator.

[poopbox]

There is a difference between doing big trade and be in this situation vs draft, luck out lottery, trade for basically free and be in situation.

Sure. But financially you get to the same place.

[Atl Spur]

Murray Boyles just might do the trick….

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Murray Boyles just might do the trick….

His 3 point shooting looks like Mitchell Robinson’s free throw shooting.

[venitian navigator]

Fox and Malaki 4 injured (possibly out 4 the season) Irving and Flagg works...Dallas Is not that far from SA and Is Builded already as a contending team ...si Fix could be not that disappointed...

[Bruno]

A not-fun and not-great scenario that could totally happen this summer is Spurs just not doing trades.

Spurs offseason would be something like Harper at #2, a project like Carter Bryant at #14 and using the MLE on a backup center.

After that, Spurs team will look like that:
Starting lineup: Fox/Castle/Vassell/Sochan/Wembanyama
Bench: Harper, Keldon, Champagnie, Barnes and the backup center.

Even if there are legit reasons to doubt on players like Vassell and Sochan, it isn't a that bad team.

[tbdog]

Fox and Malaki 4 injured (possibly out 4 the season) Irving and Flagg works...Dallas Is not that far from SA and Is Builded already as a contending team ...si Fix could be not that disappointed...

That's not happening.

[RC_Drunkford]

A not-fun and not-great scenario that could totally happen this summer is Spurs just not doing trades.

Spurs offseason would be something like Harper at #2, a project like Carter Bryant at #14 and using the MLE on a backup center.

After that, Spurs team will look like that:
Starting lineup: Fox/Castle/Vassell/Sochan/Wembanyama
Bench: Harper, Keldon, Champagnie, Barnes and the backup center.

Even if there are legit reasons to doubt on players like Vassell and Sochan, it isn't a that bad team.

I'd be pretty disappointed at that

[jesterbobman]

A not-fun and not-great scenario that could totally happen this summer is Spurs just not doing trades.

Spurs offseason would be something like Harper at #2, a project like Carter Bryant at #14 and using the MLE on a backup center.

After that, Spurs team will look like that:
Starting lineup: Fox/Castle/Vassell/Sochan/Wembanyama
Bench: Harper, Keldon, Champagnie, Barnes and the backup center.

Even if there are legit reasons to doubt on players like Vassell and Sochan, it isn't a that bad team.

It's kind of fine, but I think the Spurs should see that there's quite a bit of a size issue at 4.

I don't think it's worth going all in with trades, but giving up something like the Utah 2nd round pick next year, 38, and whatever meh quality seconds are needed to grease the wheels to get Hauser and John Collins (with Keldon, Malaki, Blake, Champ on the way out) would be a great add.

Fox / Castle / Vassell / Collins / Wemby
Harper / Hauser / Barnes / Sochan / FA C
Carter / Mamu / Miles Byrd (or Raynaud, or ... at 38)

Seems like a big fit upgrade, and doesn't use up too much in terms of future assets.

[Ice009]

Man, the draft feels so, so far away. Not sure I've ever anticipated one like this before.

I love the discussion you're all having as there's been some great ideas from people here (it's been amazing), but darn, all these scenarios and waiting for the draft is getting harder and harder ;).

[Robz4000]

A not-fun and not-great scenario that could totally happen this summer is Spurs just not doing trades.

Spurs offseason would be something like Harper at #2, a project like Carter Bryant at #14 and using the MLE on a backup center.

After that, Spurs team will look like that:
Starting lineup: Fox/Castle/Vassell/Sochan/Wembanyama
Bench: Harper, Keldon, Champagnie, Barnes and the backup center.

Even if there are legit reasons to doubt on players like Vassell and Sochan, it isn't a that bad team.

Honestly wouldn't hate that provided the Spurs are willing to shake things up to bring in a shooter should there be no notable internal improvement from anyone.

[Bruno]

It's kind of fine, but I think the Spurs should see that there's quite a bit of a size issue at 4.

I don't think it's worth going all in with trades, but giving up something like the Utah 2nd round pick next year, 38, and whatever meh quality seconds are needed to grease the wheels to get Hauser and John Collins (with Keldon, Malaki, Blake, Champ on the way out) would be a great add.


If you want to get Collins (for the record, I don't), I think it's going to cost a little more than that. My guess would be something around Keldon + #14 for Collins + #21.

[Bruno]

JJJ didn't make an all NBA team, which has interesting consequences, since he can't sign a designated vet extension.

If Memphis want to sign JJJ to a raise and extend contract this summer, they will need to have enough cap space. One way is to salary dump Brandon Clarke, another way is to renounce at Santi Aldama. They obviously rather dump Clark but it might cost them a first round pick or swap to get ride of his $25M/2 years contract.

Will Memphis take the risk to have JJ hitting UFA in 2026 or will they sacrifice Aldama or significant draft capital to avoid that?

[SpursBills]

What's the relative trade value of PJ Washington vs Collins vs Cam Johnson? I like all 3 for different reasons, but personally prefer PJ just for the simple reason that he seems to consistently shit on OKC and matching up with them is basically my primary point of concern for the foreseeable future. Normally this seems like a bad idea to build your team around matching up with a single team but with their assets, quality of their front office, and the age of their core, I think they are going to be a problem for at least the next 5 if not 10 years.

[Chinook]

If JJJ will sign an extension, then they will make whatever move necessary to accommodate that. But I doubt they'd make the salary-dumping move early if he's unsure. With the MLE being able to absorb players in a trade, I don't know that they'd have a ton of difficulty in dealing Clarke, who despite his limitations. If the Spurs draft a center at 14, I wouldn't be against them bringing in Clarke to provide competition and depth. He rolls off before Victor's next deal kicks in. Memphis doesn't have the 20th pick. Their pick (18) is going to Washington as part of the Porzingas (and before that Smart) trade. Their only picks are 48 and 56. I would give them 38 and take Clarke in exchange for a future first.

[Bruno]

Memphis doesn't have the 20th pick. Their pick (18) is going to Washington as part of the Porzingas (and before that Smart) trade. Their only picks are 48 and 56. I would give them 38 and take Clarke in exchange for a future first.

Yeah, my bad on the pick. I just don't think they will be able to salary dump Clark by only offering second round picks. It should cost them a least a first round pick swap.

[LeBowen]

JJJ has no incentive to sign an extension. He can make a lot more money if he make the all-NBA next season and if he doesn't he'll still get the same extension from Grizzlies, even if he gets injured.


What's the relative trade value of PJ Washington vs Collins vs Cam Johnson? I like all 3 for different reasons, but personally prefer PJ just for the simple reason that he seems to consistently shit on OKC and matching up with them is basically my primary point of concern for the foreseeable future. Normally this seems like a bad idea to build your team around matching up with a single team but with their assets, quality of their front office, and the age of their core, I think they are going to be a problem for at least the next 5 if not 10 years.

Collins is definitely the cheapest because he wants to compete and has a player option. It wouldn't surprise me if a S&T happens with Utah getting either a decent young player or a late FRP.
Cam Johnson is kind of an unknown because the Nets have nothing on the roster and can wait for a contender to get desperate at the deadline. They were asking for 2 FRPs this deadline, obviously too much, but someone will give them a good FRP.
Washington's value depends on what the Mavs get back. They can't just take anyone, any trade involving him and/or Gafford will result in Mavs getting a ballhandler, imo. Since they're both expirings they can't ask for much, but non-lottery FRP for each seems like fair value. We could easily do it by giving them their swap back.

[CGD]

A not-fun and not-great scenario that could totally happen this summer is Spurs just not doing trades.

Spurs offseason would be something like Harper at #2, a project like Carter Bryant at #14 and using the MLE on a backup center.

After that, Spurs team will look like that:
Starting lineup: Fox/Castle/Vassell/Sochan/Wembanyama
Bench: Harper, Keldon, Champagnie, Barnes and the backup center.

Even if there are legit reasons to doubt on players like Vassell and Sochan, it isn't a that bad team.

What would you want to see, Bruno?

And is your primary concern running back the current depth on the team (eg Devin/Keldon)?

[eric365]

Spurs have something like 5 second round picks in 2026. What could they do with it?
Could they just exchange some of them for second round pick in another futur draft?