Spurs trade ideas

[CGD]

More than a center, a PF who can put pressure on the rim down low. Sochan was showing great signs early this season, so that might solve itself.

Otherwise if I’d focus on shooting in a trade, to the extent the spurs are in play-in contention around that time.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I‘m more for signing a combo big who can play C and PF like Naz Reid. Like Bruno said it really doesn‘t make sense to tie up big money for a back up C who plays 15 min every night.

Naz would be a great target in the summer and very gettable too due to Minnesota’s cap issues. Might take 4/120 or even more but he’s an immaculate fit.

[Bruno]

Naz Reid was one of the best FA target for next summer. I'm using the past tense because Spurs have decided to pick Branham and Wesley options.

Spurs are projected to have about $20M in cap space which likely isn't enough for Naz Reid.

[exstatic]

Naz Reid was one of the best FA target for next summer. I'm using the past tense because Spurs have decided to pick Branham and Wesley options.

Spurs are projected to have about $20M in cap space which likely isn't enough for Naz Reid.

You don’t have to sign him as a FA. If he interested, a few non offensive contracts plus the CHI FRP should get the job done. They stand a decent chance of losing him for nothing.

[RC_Drunkford]

Naz Reid was one of the best FA target for next summer. I'm using the past tense because Spurs have decided to pick Branham and Wesley options.

Spurs are projected to have about $20M in cap space which likely isn't enough for Naz Reid.

can still move Keldon or Collins to create that space

[LeBowen]

Unless he rejects their offer, Timberwolves are keeping Naz.
They'll get rid of Randle and McDaniels if needed.

NAW could also be a free agency target, they won't be able to keep him.
Great defender and his shot is improving every year. Would be a great upgrade over Branham/Wesley. Their best traits in one player.

[RC_Drunkford]

Unless he rejects their offer, Timberwolves are keeping Naz.
They'll get rid of Randle and McDaniels if needed.

NAW could also be a free agency target, they won't be able to keep him.
Great defender and his shot is improving every year. Would be a great upgrade over Branham/Wesley. Their best traits in one player.

They can only keep him if he wants to stay there. Right now they got locker room issues, he might just want to join another team.

[Seventyniner]

Another way to fill the backup C spot is by using a draft pick on that position every 4-5 years and just letting them roll off rather than extending them for big money.

[Bruno]

can still move Keldon or Collins to create that space

They could do that but I don't see it happening.

Last July, Spurs were on pace to have $45M in cap space for the 2025 summer. They took away most of it with the Barnes trade and by picking Branham/Wesley options. It's sure Spurs FO has evaluated the 2025 free agent class before doing these moves and has decided that losing this space wasn't a big issue. Once they removed future free agents Spurs aren't interested in and free agents who will re-sign with their team, there was not enough left to justify keeping that space.

It seems unlikely that Spurs suddenly do a 180° turn and change their team building plan.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

They could do that but I don't see it happening.

Last July, Spurs were on pace to have $45M in cap space for the 2025 summer. They took away most of it with the Barnes trade and by picking Branham/Wesley options. It's sure Spurs FO has evaluated the 2025 free agent class before doing these moves and has decided that losing this space wasn't a big issue. Once they removed future free agents Spurs aren't interested in and free agents who will re-sign with their team, there was not enough left to justify keeping that space.

It seems unlikely that Spurs suddenly do a 180° turn and change their team building plan.

I don't see it as a 180 turn, they still have a lot of flexibility for next summer should they decide to go after free agents. They can always trade the first round picks, or use them as part of a bigger trade, they can also use the huge number of second round picks to dump contracts. There have been a million trades where teams trade small contracts like Branham's or Wesley's into cap space to create more room.

So I believe that in the case they have a good free agent willing to sign, say a Naz Reid, they'd have more than enough flexibility to create the required room. It's not like they'd need to open $20 or $30 million, it'd be closer to 10, depending on draft picks and whether they take on additional salary until then.

[LeBowen]

https://x.com/thedunkcentral/status/1862543905578758436

Two SRPs???
Make the call, Brian.
I'd offer Collins+scrubs as salary match+4 SRPs, tbh.

[CGD]

https://x.com/thedunkcentral/status/1862543905578758436

Two SRPs???
Make the call, Brian.
I'd offer Collins+scrubs as salary match+4 SRPs, tbh.

Totally, but only if by February the Spurs are seriously trying to push for the play-in/offs. It would bring much needed balance to the bench.

[exstatic]

https://x.com/thedunkcentral/status/1862543905578758436

Two SRPs???
Make the call, Brian.
I'd offer Collins+scrubs as salary match+4 SRPs, tbh.

Doesnt help CHI clear the books, as the contracts run the same length.

[LeBowen]

Doesnt help CHI clear the books, as the contracts run the same length.

That's why I wrote 4 SRPs.
Two would be enough to move Collins.
Or we exchange Collins+2 SRPs for expiring contract and move those+2 SRPs for Vucevic.
You get the point.

If the asking price is that cheap and Spurs actually want to compete, upgrading Collins to Vucevic is a no brainer move to make.

[exstatic]

That's why I wrote 4 SRPs.
Two would be enough to move Collins.
Or we exchange Collins+2 SRPs for expiring contract and move those+2 SRPs for Vucevic.
You get the point.

If the asking price is that cheap and Spurs actually want to compete, upgrading Collins to Vucevic is a no brainer move to make.

It’s not the picks. When you’re burning down your roster to tank, you want ending contracts, no matter who the player or what the skill level. Anyone remember us taking on the corpse of Aminu while offloading DeRozan? Or an injured Gallinari when trading DJ?

When you’re tearing it down, you’re only interested in ending contracts. Period.

[LeBowen]

It’s not the picks. When you’re burning down your roster to tank, you want ending contracts, no matter who the player or what the skill level. Anyone remember us taking on the corpse of Aminu while offloading DeRozan? Or an injured Gallinari when trading DJ?

When you’re tearing it down, you’re only interested in ending contracts. Period.

Are you drunk or something? Wasn't my post clear enough?
Chicago would end up with expiring deals and 2 SRPs after it's all said and done.
Spurs would spend 4 SRPs to get Vucevic.
A third team would get 2 SRPs to take on Collins and one of our scrubs for an extra year.

[exstatic]

That's why I wrote 4 SRPs.
Two would be enough to move Collins.
Or we exchange Collins+2 SRPs for expiring contract and move those+2 SRPs for Vucevic.
You get the point.

If the asking price is that cheap and Spurs actually want to compete, upgrading Collins to Vucevic is a no brainer move to make.

That wasn’t mentioned in your original post. A bit of moving the goalposts.

[LeBowen]

That wasn’t mentioned in your original post. A bit of moving the goalposts.

Sorry, I assumed you have enough reading comprehension to figure it out.
Why else would we send 4 SRPs if the asking price was 2? Because Collins is also a bad contract and they'd want to get rid of him.

But apparently I should've written everything in detail because that's just how spurstalk is.

[scott]

https://x.com/thedunkcentral/status/1862543905578758436

Two SRPs???
Make the call, Brian.
I'd offer Collins+scrubs as salary match+4 SRPs, tbh.

I liked Vooch when he was headed out of Orlando, but what's the value proposition for us? Upgrading the backup C position? We're just moving from one overpriced backup to another, better, overpriced backup. Or are we going to a two-big lineup (I wouldn't hate this with someone like Vooch, tbh, but I don't see it happening).

Vooch grades out as a much better D Rebounder (96th percentile per Dunks & Threes) and about the same on OREB as Collins. His offensive game is far more developed and better than Collins, but where will his minutes come from? Does Sochan play some minutes at the 3 and Wemby gets a lot of his minutes at the 4 next to Vooch (even if not starting)?

If just upgrading the backup C position, Big Daddy Val remains my guy, or just #PlayBassey

[exstatic]

Sorry, I assumed you have enough reading comprehension to figure it out.
Why else would we send 4 SRPs if the asking price was 2? Because Collins is also a bad contract and they'd want to get rid of him.

But apparently I should've written everything in detail because that's just how spurstalk is.
You write poorly and unclearly. A simple “yeah, we could involve a third team to offload Collins” would have been the end of the discussion on my part.

[LeBowen]

I liked Vooch when he was headed out of Orlando, but what's the value proposition for us? Upgrading the backup C position? We're just moving from one overpriced backup to another, better, overpriced backup. Or are we going to a two-big lineup (I wouldn't hate this with someone like Vooch, tbh, but I don't see it happening).

Vooch grades out as a much better D Rebounder (96th percentile per Dunks & Threes) and about the same on OREB as Collins. His offensive game is far more developed and better than Collins, but where will his minutes come from? Does Sochan play some minutes at the 3 and Wemby gets a lot of his minutes at the 4 next to Vooch (even if not starting)?

If just upgrading the backup C position, Big Daddy Val remains my guy, or just #PlayBassey

The proposition for us would be that he'd shit on every single backup big and it's not like we can spend the money elsewhere before 2026 since 2025 free agency sucks.
And if we're to make a trade, he's easier to move than Collins because he's actually a good player.


Vooch grades out as a much better D Rebounder (96th percentile per Dunks & Threes) and about the same on OREB as Collins. His offensive game is far more developed and better than Collins, but where will his minutes come from? Does Sochan play some minutes at the 3 and Wemby gets a lot of his minutes at the 4 next to Vooch (even if not starting)?

He can get ~16 minutes at C and 5-10 more together with Wemby.
We don't really have any natural PFs.
Jeremy can't be seen as a PF on defense if he's the point of attack defender.
Barnes is solid, but a bit undersized for a PF.
Mamu doesn't get minutes.

Vucevic is a better shooter than Keldon, so it's not like our spacing would suffer.


You write poorly and unclearly. A simple “yeah, we could involve a third team to offload Collins” would have been the end of the discussion on my part.

If this post was unclear:

Two SRPs???
Make the call, Brian.
I'd offer Collins+scrubs as salary match+4 SRPs, tbh.

for you to deduce that I'm adding extra SRPs because Collins has negative value, then idk what to tell you.
Why do you have to be that annoying kid who reminded the teacher about homework?
If you don't like the post, find it unreadable or want to act like a Karen, please find someone else, I'm really not in the mood for your smartass antics because sometimes it feels like you're just instigating shit when there's no reason for it.

[scott]

It’s not the picks. When you’re burning down your roster to tank, you want ending contracts, no matter who the player or what the skill level. Anyone remember us taking on the corpse of Aminu while offloading DeRozan? Or an injured Gallinari when trading DJ?

When you’re tearing it down, you’re only interested in ending contracts. Period.

Kind of like when the Spurs took on the Expiring contracts of Josh Richardson and Devonte Graham... oh wait.

One of my favorite SpursTalk sub-features: the inevitable exstatic post where he says something with authority that is so easily refuted by recent, easily verifiable facts.

Fun fact for everyone else: Zach Collins has about the same or less contract term remaining on his deal as when the Spurs acquired Josh Richardson and Devonte Graham. Sometimes teams make moves for lots of different reasons. There is no hard and fast rule that "When you’re tearing it down, you’re only interested in ending contracts. Period."

Thanks for attending this TedTalk.

[exstatic]

Kind of like when the Spurs took on the Expiring contracts of Josh Richardson and Devonte Graham... oh wait.

One of my favorite SpursTalk sub-features: the inevitable exstatic post where he says something with authority that is so easily refuted by recent, easily verifiable facts.

Fun fact for everyone else: Zach Collins has about the same or less contract term remaining on his deal as when the Spurs acquired Josh Richardson and Devonte Graham. Sometimes teams make moves for lots of different reasons. There is no hard and fast rule that "When you’re tearing it down, you’re only interested in ending contracts. Period."

Thanks for attending this TedTalk.

Once you tear the roster down then you rent your cap. That’s what Devonte and JRuch were. That’s what Barnes is. Two different things.

[scott]

The proposition for us would be that he'd shit on every single backup big and it's not like we can spend the money elsewhere before 2026 since 2025 free agency sucks.
And if we're to make a trade, he's easier to move than Collins because he's actually a good player.



He can get ~16 minutes at C and 5-10 more together with Wemby.
We don't really have any natural PFs.
Jeremy can't be seen as a PF on defense if he's the point of attack defender.
Barnes is solid, but a bit undersized for a PF.
Mamu doesn't get minutes.

Vucevic is a better shooter than Keldon, so it's not like our spacing would suffer.





I just don't see the Spurs going to a two big lineup for any real rotation minutes, at least not for a player like Vooch, at least not as this stage. It would require a pretty significant change in on the court philosophy, which is the reason I'm skeptical of this move.

No arguments about how he'd be in an upgrade, it's just not a seamless fit like upgrading Collins with Jonas would be (or upgrading Keldon with someone like DFS, for example). And if we make any moves (which I doubt we will), I would anticipate them being like-for-like, seamless fit upgrades (and I think we should do this, for the record)

[scott]

Once you tear the roster down then you rent your cap. That’s what Devonte and JRuch were. That’s what Barnes is. Two different things.

Both Devonte and Rich were acquired pre-Wemby, aka still "tearing it down" (this is something that could also be easily verified or, you know, just remembered by using your brain)

[exstatic]

Both Devonte and Rich were acquired pre-Wemby, aka still "tearing it down" (this is something that could also be easily verified or, you know, just remembered by using your brain)

Tearing your roster down is different from renting your cap, or why didn’t you include Barnes in your screed? It’s not about when it happens, pre or post Wemby. The tearing down was offloading DeRozan and Dejounte in consecutive summers. None of the players acquired in those deals were anything but ending contracts. After that, you set up the churn. Rent, roll off, rent again.

[RC_Drunkford]

If this was Jeff Ayres exstatic (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=20) would be all over it

[exstatic]

If this was Jeff Ayres exstatic (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=20) would be all over it

He ruined himself by changing his name. He was actually an NBA player as Jeff Pendergraph.

Seriously, I wasn’t so much pro Jeff as anti Jeff hatred. The amount of absolute hatred towards Spurs player here to this day is still annoying.

[CGD]

Doesnt help CHI clear the books, as the contracts run the same length.

I don’t think that’s their goal. It’s to weaken their team for the lotto.

[CGD]

I liked Vooch when he was headed out of Orlando, but what's the value proposition for us? Upgrading the backup C position? We're just moving from one overpriced backup to another, better, overpriced backup. Or are we going to a two-big lineup (I wouldn't hate this with someone like Vooch, tbh, but I don't see it happening).

Vooch grades out as a much better D Rebounder (96th percentile per Dunks & Threes) and about the same on OREB as Collins. His offensive game is far more developed and better than Collins, but where will his minutes come from? Does Sochan play some minutes at the 3 and Wemby gets a lot of his minutes at the 4 next to Vooch (even if not starting)?

If just upgrading the backup C position, Big Daddy Val remains my guy, or just #PlayBassey

I see him as the back up C and a clear upgrade to Collins if they’re trying to make a run a the 8th seed. It’s also “only” a 3M price difference this and next year, which isn’t terrible (trade works straight up salary wise btw). And if we need to get off him, he’ll be a bigger expiring for a trade package next year.

[scott]

Tearing your roster down is different from renting your cap, or why didn’t you include Barnes in your screed? It’s not about when it happens, pre or post Wemby. The tearing down was offloading DeRozan and Dejounte in consecutive summers. None of the players acquired in those deals were anything but ending contracts. After that, you set up the churn. Rent, roll off, rent again.

why would I bring up Barnes? He wasn’t part of what the Spurs tank era.

Richardson was part of the DWhite deal, which was the Spurs shedding their good players to 1) allow them to tank and 2) get trade capital… getting expirings to have cap space wasn’t the priority. Aka, exactly the situation that Chicago is looking at (and that I warned everyone would happen as the pick they owed us came due - while people like you insisted that Chicago loves being a play-in team and there is nothing to worry about)

More exstatic fails

[exstatic]

I don’t think that’s their goal. It’s to weaken their team for the lotto.

It should be twofold. If they only weaken their team, they’ll get better, but not for the long haul. Orlando did it this way, and they’re killing it, but they have no stockpile of assets like OKC and SA do.

[exstatic]

why would I bring up Barnes? He wasn’t part of what the Spurs tank era.

Richardson was part of the DWhite deal, which was the Spurs shedding their good players to 1) allow them to tank and 2) get trade capital… getting expirings to have cap space wasn’t the priority. Aka, exactly the situation that Chicago is looking at (and that I warned everyone would happen as the pick they owed us came due - while people like you insisted that Chicago loves being a play-in team and there is nothing to worry about)

More exstatic fails

In 2022, Chicago was in the middle of what would become an 8 year slump and was 5 at the time. Wemby was on the horizon, and instead they signed Zach Lavine to a huge extension after a first round drubbing, their only playoff appearance in that span. Having passed on that opportunity, and because there’s conjecture from some OTHER GM that Vooch is worth 2 SRPs, they’re tanking? If so, they’re doing a bad job. They should have blown it up last summer. They’re a game and a half from the 8th seed.

People are really whipsaw overreacting to both ATL and CHI at this juncture. There was a night a week or so ago when CHI won, ATL lost and they flipped positions, 7 and 15.

[CGD]

Trying to think back here, when was the last time the Spurs traded a player of consequence to a western conference team? Seems like they like to deal with the other conference in recent years where possible (ATL, CHI, BOS, TORx2)?

[spurraider21]

I‘m more for signing a combo big who can play C and PF like Naz Reid. Like Bruno said it really doesn‘t make sense to tie up big money for a back up C who plays 15 min every night.
this is why i woulda loved Clingan at 8 if Portland didnt scoop him at 7. elite pure backup C and the upside of "if he and wemby ever figure it out together..." stuff.

with that said yeah Reid would be awesome because of the versatility

[LeBowen]

Since it's becoming pretty obvious Spurs are getting better and definitely won't tank this season, we should actually try to properly compete.
Our biggest and only fundamental issue is Wemby's backup. Obviously we're a long way from being an actual contender, but every other position is decent enough or has young players with a lot of room for improvement.

The biggest issue with backup big position is getting someone good enough to be an upgrade over Collins/Bassey, but still content with playing just 15 to 20 minutes per game.
I mentioned Vucevic several times, but he probably wouldn't be happy with never sharing the floor with Wemby and not closing the games out.

Looking around the league, there aren't many players who would be clear upgrades, wouldn't cost too much and aren't earning too much.
For example I don't think bringing Jakob back would be worth it because he's at $19M a year up until 2027. Too much for a backup.

If we're looking at budget options, Tilman is getting DNPs since Porzingis got back into the lineup and I really liked his effort in the playoffs.
Minimum deal, expiring, but I'm not sure Celtics would be willing to part ways since they can't really get much value for him and it's always more useful to have a guy who knows the system as an emergency backup for the playoffs.

Timelord is finally healthy and it might be worth taking a gamble with him because he's also ona deal that expires in 2026, much like Collins. Blazers have Ayton and Clingan already.

John Collins is making $26.5M this and the next season, but he actually looks like the best option because he's a natural PF who could easily share the floor with Wemby and allow us to get more creative with lineups.
He'd be able to get more minutes than any other name on the list and he probably wouldn't cost much since he's on the trade block.

There's even potential for a big trade with the Jazz which Spurs probably won't do, but it's worth mentioning.
Collins+Keldon+Tre <-> Collins+Sexton
Backup big upgrade and a triple threat scorer off the bench would pretty much guarantee we make the playoffs, imo.
Spacing would get way better and defense would stay on around the same level because none of the players in the trade are great defenders.
(we'd obviously have to add a FRP and SRPs, just to make it clear for a certain smartass)

[scott]

Since it's becoming pretty obvious Spurs are getting better and definitely won't tank this season, we should actually try to properly compete.
Our biggest and only fundamental issue is Wemby's backup. Obviously we're a long way from being an actual contender, but every other position is decent enough or has young players with a lot of room for improvement.

The biggest issue with backup big position is getting someone good enough to be an upgrade over Collins/Bassey, but still content with playing just 15 to 20 minutes per game.
I mentioned Vucevic several times, but he probably wouldn't be happy with never sharing the floor with Wemby and not closing the games out.

Looking around the league, there aren't many players who would be clear upgrades, wouldn't cost too much and aren't earning too much.
For example I don't think bringing Jakob back would be worth it because he's at $19M a year up until 2027. Too much for a backup.

If we're looking at budget options, Tilman is getting DNPs since Porzingis got back into the lineup and I really liked his effort in the playoffs.
Minimum deal, expiring, but I'm not sure Celtics would be willing to part ways since they can't really get much value for him and it's always more useful to have a guy who knows the system as an emergency backup for the playoffs.

Timelord is finally healthy and it might be worth taking a gamble with him because he's also ona deal that expires in 2026, much like Collins. Blazers have Ayton and Clingan already.

John Collins is making $26.5M this and the next season, but he actually looks like the best option because he's a natural PF who could easily share the floor with Wemby and allow us to get more creative with lineups.
He'd be able to get more minutes than any other name on the list and he probably wouldn't cost much since he's on the trade block.

There's even potential for a big trade with the Jazz which Spurs probably won't do, but it's worth mentioning.
Collins+Keldon+Tre <-> Collins+Sexton
Backup big upgrade and a triple threat scorer off the bench would pretty much guarantee we make the playoffs, imo.
Spacing would get way better and defense would stay on around the same level because none of the players in the trade are great defenders.
(we'd obviously have to add a FRP and SRPs, just to make it clear for a certain smartass)

Welcome. We've been waiting for you.

One problem with Timelord is that he can't play back to backs and comes with built in minute restrictions and is always an injury risk. But when he plays... he's good.

You didn't mention Big Daddy, but he's my guy. Great rebounder. Big, physical presence inside though isn't necessarily a high end rim protector. Gives Mamu an Eastern European buddy. Can hit the three. On the first year of a 3/30 and can be traded on 12/15. Salaries work for a straight Jonas for Zach swap, will just cost us picks. I say load up the SRPs and see if WAS is interested.

Gonna keep beating this drum... but Jonas and DFS are the two moves that put this team in the best position to get really great experience from being a winning team this year without costing us our future flexibility. Neither guy will cost us major draft capital, which we'll need to make our big long term moves (#LauriThread2025).

[LeBowen]

You didn't mention Big Daddy, but he's my guy.

Idk why I forgot about him. But yeah, he'd be solid.
I'm intrigued by the prospect of John Collins because those small bench lineups with him would run opponents off the floor.
CP3/Devin/Castle/Barnes/Wemby
Sexton/Champ/Jeremy/J. Collins
That looks like a legit rotation with a lot of possibilities and I'd say no mutually exclusive players. With Bassey as 10th man if needed.
Idk who would even start.



(#LauriThread2025)

:hungry:

[CorrectCrusader]

I'd watch for Malik Monk when Sacramento realizes this core isn't going anywhere.

[scott]

I'd watch for Malik Monk when Sacramento realizes this core isn't going anywhere.

I'd love Malik, he was my #1 FA target going into last summer, but he extended with SAC on a sweetheart deal before even testing FA. My sense is that he is a sneaky part of their "core" (in part because he seems to want to be there, which is always a consideration for teams like SAC, Utah, heck even us) after Fox and Saboner and they'd sooner trade Murray.

[spurraider21]

I'd love Malik, he was my #1 FA target going into last summer, but he extended with SAC on a sweetheart deal before even testing FA. My sense is that he is a sneaky part of their "core" (in part because he seems to want to be there, which is always a consideration for teams like SAC, Utah, heck even us) after Fox and Saboner and they'd sooner trade Murray.
he was my favorite FA as well and i wasnt shy about it. really bummed he signed that deal with Sacto. was definitely below market value for him.

[ginobilized]

Would Paul Reed be worth a tire kick? Did he and Brett Brown overlap in Philly?

Great ideas above. Vuvecic, Valunciunas, or John Collins would be killer. Monk is a bit pie in the sky, but, would be a great addition to almost any team.

[CGD]

Jonas would be nice. I bet he reaches the buyout market.

[CorrectCrusader]

I'd love Malik, he was my #1 FA target going into last summer, but he extended with SAC on a sweetheart deal before even testing FA. My sense is that he is a sneaky part of their "core" (in part because he seems to want to be there, which is always a consideration for teams like SAC, Utah, heck even us) after Fox and Saboner and they'd sooner trade Murray.

SAC doesn't play like that. They just traded away Tyrese a few seasons ago who LOVED being in SAC.

[scott]

Jonas would be nice. I bet he reaches the buyout market.

Jonas just signed this offseason and has two years remaining on his deal after this one. I don't think he's a buyout candidate.

[Bruno]

A quick overview at all the vets from potential tanking teams who might become available in the trade market:

Wizards: Poole, Kuzma, Valanciunas, Brogdon.
Raptors: Poeltl, Bruce brown, Olynyk
Hornets: Miles Bridges, Nick Richards
Bulls: Vucevic, Lavine
Nets: DFS, Schroder, Cam Johnson
Jazz: Clarkson, Sexton, John Collins
Blazers: Grant, Thybulle, Robert Williams III, Ayton, Anfernee Simons
Pelicans: McCollum, Ingram

[jesterbobman]

I don't think Naz Reid is an option, both as we don't have money free, and I think of the 2 PFs they have, Minny will opt to keep Naz Reid if they can.

Jonas would be a great upgrade - he has limits as a rim protector, but he rebounds the shit out of the ball, takes up space inside and scores effectively, and can space the floor so a Jonas / Sochan backup lineup works. I'd try and do Collins, Chicago 2nd, another 2nd round pick (Or Collins, Charlotte first that's really two seconds but works well as a sell job) for Jonas (Washington has a ton of seconds already, they might not be as interested in stocking up on pick depth). Eats into 2026 cap a tiny bit, but he's a better player by a solid margin, and it's not that much money - If we have a chance at one of the big fish in 2026 FA, I'd guess we can dump a one year 10m contract with a 2nd round pick.

Wemby / Barnes / Champ / Castle / CP3
Jonas / Sochan / Keldon / Vasssell / Tre

Is a solid 10 man rotation.

[RC_Drunkford]

Valanciunas on a 10 million contract is great value. Way better than Collins at 18

[CGD]

Jonas just signed this offseason and has two years remaining on his deal after this one. I don't think he's a buyout candidate.

My bad, I thought he had been traded there and on the last year of his deal. Totally whiffed on that.

[Leetonidas]

JV is getting traded to LAL, book it

[scott]

JV is getting traded to LAL, book it

Given Jonas's propensity to make us his bitch, this would be the worst imaginable scenario. Jesus Christ this guy must have some kind of personal vendetta against RC Buford or Breakfast Tacos: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=jonas+valan%C4%8Di%C5%ABnas+game+stats+vs+sp urs

[mo7888]

A quick overview at all the vets from potential tanking teams who might become available in the trade market:

Wizards: Poole, Kuzma, Valanciunas, Brogdon.
Raptors: Poeltl, Bruce brown, Olynyk
Hornets: Miles Bridges, Nick Richards
Bulls: Vucevic, Lavine
Nets: DFS, Schroder, Cam Johnson
Jazz: Clarkson, Sexton, John Collins
Blazers: Grant, Thybulle, Robert Williams III, Ayton, Anfernee Simons
Pelicans: McCollum, Ingram

That's a nice list. JV, poeltl, olynyk, cam, pr Collins, are varying degrees of interesting

[spurraider21]

i know we've been down this road before, but i like john collins

he's had ups and downs but is still just 27

[spurraider21]

i also would like to see us toss out some second rounders in bulk in exchange for some lightly protected swaps. for all the talk of us having 2+ first rounders this year, we also have 2 second rounders. have 5 second rounders next year. rather do something with them than just wait for them to be sold for cash

we saw phoenix send some weak swaps to memphis for some second rounders. could try to replicate that

[scott]

i also would like to see us toss out some second rounders in bulk in exchange for some lightly protected swaps. for all the talk of us having 2+ first rounders this year, we also have 2 second rounders. have 5 second rounders next year. rather do something with them than just wait for them to be sold for cash

we saw phoenix send some weak swaps to memphis for some second rounders. could try to replicate that

::Peter Holt Jr. pulls his head out of the pile of cocaine sitting on his desk:: "DONT TOUCH THOSE SRPS"

[CGD]

That's a nice list. JV, poeltl, olynyk, cam, pr Collins, are varying degrees of interesting

I would happily take Jakob back.

Would the Collins contract (lower amount and one less year) and CHA pick do it? Maybe add
Branham.

[ginobilized]

Jakob currently leads the league in offensive rebounds, that would be a huge bonus to go with not needing the ball, sturdy defense and that FT%.

He's 29, but, was always a great soldier.

[mo7888]

I would happily take Jakob back.

Would the Collins contract (lower amount and one less year) and CHA pick do it? Maybe add
Branham.

It might... I'd think how they perceive Branham would be the main factor there.

[scott]

Lengthy HoopsHype article on various trade targets around the league: https://hoopshype.com/lists/top-nba-trade-candidates-for-the-2024-25-season/

Of note to me:

estimated asking price on DFS is multiple SRPs, and there are multiple teams eyeing him
Cody Martin (CHA) could be available
Both Bogdanovic brothers supposedly available, although ATL may value their brother more than the rest of the league
League execs say CHI's asking price is currently too high on Lavine and Vooch
CLE is $1.8MM over the luxury tax threshold and are expected to look to shed one of LeVert, Niang or Okoro... CLE's 20131 pick may be in play
DET's Tim Hardaway Jr and his $16MM expiring could be available, as is Beef Stew (4/60). Stewart I could see being interesting though it might be a little crowded with Barnes and Sochan. Stew shot 38% on 3.5 3PA/gm last year though... could be the right kind of backup 4 for us?
Steven Adams could be available. Unfortunately his body can't hold up, and we're unlikely to do a deal with HOU. Always liked Adams though.
Jarace Walker (or Obi Toppin) could be available :sombrero: - would love to see us get in on some of that
Wolves already thinking of flipping Randle and Donte...
Jerami Grant price tag is two FRPs
SAC still looking to move Huerter

[LeBowen]

Both Bogdanovic brothers supposedly available, although ATL may value their brother more than the rest of the leagu



They're not even the same nationality, let alone brothers. :lol




DET's Tim Hardaway Jr and his $16MM expiring could be available, as is Beef Stew (4/60). Stewart I could see being interesting though it might be a little crowded with Barnes and Sochan. Stew shot 38% on 3.5 3PA/gm last year though... could be the right kind of backup 4 for us?



PATFO won't even consider him due to his personality.




Jerami Grant price tag is two FRPs



:lmao:lmao:lmao

[scott]

They're not even the same nationality, let alone brothers. :lol





Damn, I never knew. I just assumed two kids named Bogdan and Bojan must have been brothers. Today I learned something new! :lol

[baseline bum]

I don't think Naz Reid is an option, both as we don't have money free, and I think of the 2 PFs they have, Minny will opt to keep Naz Reid if they can.


Plus Reid already took less to stay in Minnesota once

[RC_Drunkford]

:lol at Kuminga wanting 35+ million per year while averaging 13 PPG with 29% from 3 and 60 FT%

[Mal]

Of note to me:


Both Bogdanovic brothers supposedly available, although ATL may value their brother more than the rest of the league




Dude

[CGD]

Lengthy HoopsHype article on various trade targets around the league: https://hoopshype.com/lists/top-nba-trade-candidates-for-the-2024-25-season/

Of note to me:

estimated asking price on DFS is multiple SRPs, and there are multiple teams eyeing him
Cody Martin (CHA) could be available
Both Bogdanovic brothers supposedly available, although ATL may value their brother more than the rest of the league
League execs say CHI's asking price is currently too high on Lavine and Vooch
CLE is $1.8MM over the luxury tax threshold and are expected to look to shed one of LeVert, Niang or Okoro... CLE's 20131 pick may be in play
DET's Tim Hardaway Jr and his $16MM expiring could be available, as is Beef Stew (4/60). Stewart I could see being interesting though it might be a little crowded with Barnes and Sochan. Stew shot 38% on 3.5 3PA/gm last year though... could be the right kind of backup 4 for us?
Steven Adams could be available. Unfortunately his body can't hold up, and we're unlikely to do a deal with HOU. Always liked Adams though.
Jarace Walker (or Obi Toppin) could be available :sombrero: - would love to see us get in on some of that
Wolves already thinking of flipping Randle and Donte...
Jerami Grant price tag is two FRPs
SAC still looking to move Huerter


Lot of tempting stuff in there. I just dont know whether it makes sense for this team quite yet. They've played the fewest road games on the one hand, but on the other they are just now getting the full team back. If they are still in the 10th post closer to the deadline, i say they should make a move. But if theyre trending down hold my powder dry.

[Mr. Body]

:lol at Kuminga wanting 35+ million per year while averaging 13 PPG with 29% from 3 and 60 FT%

Dude's gotten worse this year. Seems kinda clear Jonathan Kuminga ain't it.

[exstatic]

Dude's gotten worse this year. Seems kinda clear Jonathan Kuminga ain't it.

They kept him instead of trading him to the Clips for PG.

[LeBowen]

They kept him instead of trading him to the Clips for PG.

Warriors really overvalued their young scrubs.
Didn't want to trade Kuminga or fucking Podzemski for Markkanen, either.

Incompetence ruined Curry's final chance to compete properly.

[exstatic]

Warriors really overvalued their young scrubs.
Didn't want to trade Kuminga or fucking Podzemski for Markkanen, either.

Incompetence ruined Curry's final chance to compete properly.


Podzemski is giving me really strong Chris Duarte vibes. Duarte was awesome as a rookie, fell off pretty hard as a sophomore, and is now out of the league.

[baseline bum]

They kept him instead of trading him to the Clips for PG.

Though PG13 hasn't been much better and is a china doll on top of that.

[KingKev]

Steven Adams would be a great pickup but as Scott said don’t see these two teams dealing favourably.

[scott]

Podzemski is giving me really strong Chris Duarte vibes. Duarte was awesome as a rookie, fell off pretty hard as a sophomore, and is now out of the league.

Duarte isn't out of the league quite yet, but he's almost there. We'll see him tonight against Chicago (if they peel him off the end of the bench, that is)

[scott]

Here's a new idea for a trade target, kind of in the same vein of when we traded Derrick to BOS (a still relatively young guy, on a nice deal, hasn't really had an opportunity to shine yet).

Aaron Nesmith from IND.

25-year old, 6'5" SF with a 6'10" wingspan on his first year of a 3/33 (flat structure).

.376 career 3PT shooter, shot .419 on 4.6 3PA/gm last year. Ranks in the 91st percentile in TS%, and above average in most advanced defensive metrics. Ranks in the 75th percentile in CraftedOPM and 62nd percentile in CraftedDPM (here is his Crafted Player Profile: https://craftednba.com/players/aaron-nesmith).

Have zero clue whether the Pacers would be interested in moving him or what it would cost... but he's an interesting prospect. He's been mostly a starter the last two years for IND but is now tucked behind Nembhard and Mathurin (and he's currently out with an ankle injury)

[LeBowen]

Here's a new idea for a trade target, kind of in the same vein of when we traded Derrick to BOS (a still relatively young guy, on a nice deal, hasn't really had an opportunity to shine yet).

Aaron Nesmith from IND.

25-year old, 6'5" SF with a 6'10" wingspan on his first year of a 3/33 (flat structure).

.376 career 3PT shooter, shot .419 on 4.6 3PA/gm last year. Ranks in the 91st percentile in TS%, and above average in most advanced defensive metrics. Ranks in the 75th percentile in CraftedOPM and 62nd percentile in CraftedDPM (here is his Crafted Player Profile: https://craftednba.com/players/aaron-nesmith).

Have zero clue whether the Pacers would be interested in moving him or what it would cost... but he's an interesting prospect. He's been mostly a starter the last two years for IND but is now tucked behind Nembhard and Mathurin (and he's currently out with an ankle injury)

He's a solid role player, but I feel like we've got no use for more off ball guards.

Assuming Devin and Castle are long-term pieces, the plan is probably to find another point guard who'd enable any combination between those three and then find a fourth guard on a minimum contract to soak up remaining minutes.
I think it would be way better for Castle if he doesn't have to play any more minutes at SF. Same goes for Devin.
96 minutes available between two guard positions, 32 for each of the 3 players would be perfect.
Champagnie can also play some SG minutes if needed.

Idk if PATFO would go this route, but that's my idea.

Coby White is supposedly available for trade and I wouldn't be against it, he'd fit well into this.
Or Sexton. One of those two as 6th man, triple threat point guard.

[scott]

^^^ I'd view Nesmith more as a replacement for Keldon's minutes than anything else

[LeBowen]

^^^ I'd view Nesmith more as a replacement for Keldon's minutes than anything else

I'm old fashioned and I'd prefer having 6'7+ wings.
High volume, efficent 3pt shooter for the starting lineup.
Markkanen, MPJ, Cam Jonhson...you get the point.
Replace CP3 and Tre with one of those point guards I mentioned next season and we're good to go.
Or we can replace Tre right away.
I'm sure Bulls would take their pick back and Tre for Coby, I'm just not sure how much would he want to extend, if that contract was longer, it would be a no brainer win-win trade, but it ends in 2026.

[scott]

Not for the Spurs, but these two are both rumored on the block and I thought this was interesting. Both have elite aspects to their offensive game but both are two of the worst defenders in the entire league :lol

1864776768244359400

[KingKev]

If the Bulls were giving away Lavine I’d be intrigued giving some form of our scraps like Keldon, Zollins, Tre, Branham Wesley and SRPs.

[LeBowen]

If the Bulls were giving away Lavine I’d be intrigued giving some form of our scraps like Keldon, Zollins, Tre, Branham Wesley and SRPs.

His contract is up until summer 2027.
$43/46/49M.

I see no way to have both Lavine and Devin in the lineup.
Neither can play point and both are too small to play forward.

[scott]

Not too mention the asking price on Lavine is still reported to be "too high"

Hopefully Castle shuts him down tonight. He's been on a tear offensively this season

[KingKev]

His contract is up until summer 2027.
$43/46/49M.

I see no way to have both Lavine and Devin in the lineup.
Neither can play point and both are too small to play forward.

Oh I’m well aware of his super max. Gradually less punitive with a rising cap but punitive none the less. I agree on the redundancy between DV and Lavine but if we swallowed Lavine for basically nothing I’d have DV on the block with draft capital ready for the next disgruntled star.

When healthy (I know big if) I really like his game and think he would complement Wemby nicely. Add a 2 way AS caliber wing and that’s a pretty dynamic trio.

[LeBowen]

Oh I’m well aware of his super max. Gradually less punitive with a rising cap but punitive none the less. I agree on the redundancy between DV and Lavine but if we swallowed Lavine for basically nothing I’d have DV on the block with draft capital ready for the next disgruntled star.

When healthy (I know big if) I really like his game and think he would complement Wemby nicely. Add a 2 way AS caliber wing and that’s a pretty dynamic trio.

His game is nice, but he's injury prone and will be 30 before the season ends.
If Devin stays healthy, I wouldn't trade him unless it's a legit star package. If he gets injured again, we need to get rid of him before he becomes a negative asset.

[KingKev]

His game is nice, but he's injury prone and will be 30 before the season ends.
If Devin stays healthy, I wouldn't trade him unless it's a legit star package. If he gets injured again, we need to get rid of him before he becomes a negative asset.

I’m comfortable with our current trajectory but I’m also okay with taking some risk on former AS caliber vets with some stink on them these next few years. Mainly because Vic is still finding himself and as of right now he isn’t ready to lead on a nightly basis.

I’ll always be keen on selling high on DV. He is on a great deal and had an efficient year last year offensively but also think his value has been inflated being a primary option on a losing squad devoid of talent.

[baseline bum]

Oh I’m well aware of his super max. Gradually less punitive with a rising cap but punitive none the less. I agree on the redundancy between DV and Lavine but if we swallowed Lavine for basically nothing I’d have DV on the block with draft capital ready for the next disgruntled star.

When healthy (I know big if) I really like his game and think he would complement Wemby nicely. Add a 2 way AS caliber wing and that’s a pretty dynamic trio.

Don't think I'd want to give Vassell's minutes nor Castle's to Lavine even if Lavine was on a good contract.

[scott]

Lavine is more dynamic and probably a better offensive player... but he's a significantly worse defender (and Devin's not even that great, tbh) and his contract is definitely way worse. It's funny to even bring up injuries with either of these guys because it's probably a wash, neither of these dudes can stay off the injury report. :lol

In a vacuum I'd rather have Devin than Lavine for the defense and contract... but if it's Devin or Lavine + [whatever I can get for Devin] I might have to think about it.

[baseline bum]

Lavine is more dynamic and probably a better offensive player... but he's a significantly worse defender (and Devin's not even that great, tbh) and his contract is definitely way worse. It's funny to even bring up injuries with either of these guys because it's probably a wash, neither of these dudes can stay off the injury report. :lol

In a vacuum I'd rather have Devin than Lavine for the defense and contract... but if it's Devin or Lavine + [whatever I can get for Devin] I might have to think about it.

Why not Devin + [whatever you can get for Lavine] ? At least Lavine's contract would be more useful for matching purposes if the Spurs traded for a star.

[scott]

Why not Devin + [whatever you can get for Lavine] ? At least Lavine's contract would be more useful for matching purposes if the Spurs traded for a star.

Well, we're talking about a scenario where we basically get Lavine for free... so [whatever you can get for Lavine] = 0

[KingKev]

Wth regards to the price that clears the market for Lavine I suspect Chicago will have to take back poor contracts if they want decent draft capital in the return. Otherwise they will have to settle for expiring contracts and/or smaller more moveable trade pieces.

I do believe he gets moved before the deadline either way to help the tank.

Lakers might be one of the few teams who would actually pay near their asking price.

[scott]

1865102566503190599

Need a There's Buzz thread.

[exstatic]

Wth regards to the price that clears the market for Lavine I suspect Chicago will have to take back poor contracts if they want decent draft capital in the return. Otherwise they will have to settle for expiring contracts and/or smaller more moveable trade pieces.

I do believe he gets moved before the deadline either way to help the tank.

Lakers might be one of the few teams who would actually pay near their asking price.

I think people haven’t realized how toxic a contract like Lavines is in the era of the second apron. It’s awful on the face of it, but when you add the fact that he plays zero defense anymore, it’s even worse. You can’t have a one way player as a #2 on a contender,but he’s being paid like a #2.

[spurraider21]

If the Bulls were giving away Lavine I’d be intrigued giving some form of our scraps like Keldon, Zollins, Tre, Branham Wesley and SRPs.
blair, bonner, neal, and some second round picks for lavine

[spursparker9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a51vOLpsvNg

Wemby to Lakers for AD

[exstatic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a51vOLpsvNg

Wemby to Lakers for AD

Uh,no.

[LeBowen]

Uh,no.

I'd punch that guy on sight, tbh.

I know people use rage bait to generate context, but he's one of those people who legit deserves to be banned from the internet.



While we're at trades with the Lakers, I'd trade Collins for Luol Deng's contract if it's still on the books.

[baseline bum]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a51vOLpsvNg

Wemby to Lakers for AD

Think I'll pass. Wemby is not ready to be competing for titles yet and trading for Davis to pair next to him would be a win now move. That's the kind of move you'd want to make in two years.

[CGD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a51vOLpsvNg

Wemby to Lakers for AD

No, that’s the click bate image. The actual trade proposed is:

SAS: AD + trash

LAL: Vassell, Keldon, Malaki, Collins, and 4 good FRPs

I actually think about it, tbh

[LeBowen]

I actually think about it, tbh

AD is actually untradeable.
He'll be 32 before the playoffs start, he's probably the best second option in the league when healthy, but the problem is that he's guaranteed to get injured at some point.
Teams that would become top contenders by adding him don't have the assets and teams that have the assets wouldn't be good enough even after the trade.
If he was a bit younger, sure, but he's got maybe two years left on top level and then what?

[CGD]

AD is actually untradeable.
He'll be 32 before the playoffs start, he's probably the best second option in the league when healthy, but the problem is that he's guaranteed to get injured at some point.
Teams that would become top contenders by adding him don't have the assets and teams that have the assets wouldn't be good enough even after the trade.
If he was a bit younger, sure, but he's got maybe two years left on top level and then what?

Yeah that’s probably the best case offer for LAL. For the reasons you mention, it’s hard to see the spurs giving 4FRP that are good AND Vassell. After seeing what Bridges went for, Vassell should at least command the same alone. But, if the price is two good picks and 2 protected one?

[scott]

Yeah that’s probably the best case offer for LAL. For the reasons you mention, it’s hard to see the spurs giving 4FRP that are good AND Vassell. After seeing what Bridges went for, Vassell should at least command the same alone. But, if the price is two good picks and 2 protected one?

sorry, but Vassell isn’t worth nearly the return Bridges brought. Bridges doesn’t miss games. Vassell, on the other hand….

[CGD]

sorry, but Vassell isn’t worth nearly the return Bridges brought. Bridges doesn’t miss games. Vassell, on the other hand….

Fair, but Mikal Bridges has been pretty bad for the Knicks so far. Things can change of course, but based on their dissatisfaction with the trade, many Knicks fans would probably take a healthy Vassell over him right now.

[Mal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a51vOLpsvNg

Wemby to Lakers for AD

Its interesting trade, but I think Spurs are giving too much. Vassell, Keldon and Clean 4 FRP is way too much, given Vassell and Keldon have positive value.

[scott]

Its interesting trade, but I think Spurs are giving too much. Vassell, Keldon and Clean 4 FRP is way too much, given Vassell and Keldon have positive value.

I don’t think Keldon has positive value.

[baseline bum]

No, that’s the click bate image. The actual trade proposed is:

SAS: AD + trash

LAL: Vassell, Keldon, Malaki, Collins, and 4 good FRPs

I actually think about it, tbh

I would have done it in the summer but probably not now because Victor doesn't look ready to really be competing in deep playoff runs yet and Davis is the kind of guy you trade for to win in the next year or two since any further than that who knows what you're getting with his injury history.

[mo7888]

I just don't see any blockbuster type trades on the horizon. I'd like to see a minor development type deal moving Wesley + the Charlotte 1st (which is 2 seconds) to Charlotte for NSJ. He's young with upsides and shoots 43% from 3. I'd rather spend some time working with that than with what Wesley is bringing.

[exstatic]

I just don't see any blockbuster type trades on the horizon. I'd like to see a minor development type deal moving Wesley + the Charlotte 1st (which is 2 seconds) to Charlotte for NSJ. He's young with upsides and shoots 43% from 3. I'd rather spend some time working with that than with what Wesley is bringing.

Mark Williams is a Zion level injury time bomb. They’re not trading NSJ.

[scott]

Mark Williams is a Zion level injury time bomb. They’re not trading NSJ.

Is Charlotte playing Nick Smith Jr. as Mark Williams' replacement? Maybe that's their problem.

[scott]

Posted this in the Champ thread but will put here as well:

Not that I have a strong desire to get rid of him, but Julian might sneakily be one of our absolute best trade assets to a very specific subset of teams. Dude plays solid defense, is a decent (but inconsistent - which can be fixed) shooter, and is under contract for less than 2% of the cap for two more years after this one.

A 1st apron team (who cannot take back more salary than they send) with atrocious depth would LOVE a guy like Champ. The Spurs can take back up to $6.25MM for Julian, and a 1st team would just have to send out $3MM or more. The Spurs would obviously require draft compensation for this, and I think Julian could actually net an FRP from a playoff team looking to make a move like this.

Here are all the teams to whom this would apply




DEN could send any one of: Saric, Westbrook, Braun, Holmes. I think Saric is the only one who makes even a little bit of sense, but it leaves DEN even weaker in bench bigs and they probably don't need another SF. That might be the only position they're okay on depth wise.
PHX is actually who could probably use Julian the most but they don't have any contracts that work
MIN could only send NAW, so they probably wouldn't do that.
BOS could send Jaden Springer, who I've heard somewhere that they might actually look to move, but I'm not sure they need Julian... but they do love to shoot 3s, play some D, and get great value from the Spurs.
MIL has no one they can send
LAL could send Christian Wood, Dalton Knecht (not going to happen), or Jalen Hood-Schifino. The Lakers declined JHS's 3rd year option so this would actually be a perfect move for them if they wanted to add a player like Champ.
NYK could send Miles McBride or Precious Achiuwa, they aren't going to do either of those things.
MIA could send: Josh Richardson, Jaime Jaquez, Kevin Love, Kel Ware, or Haywood Highsmith. Richardson and Love would be the realistic options, probably Josh.
PHI could send: Eric Gordon, Jared McCain, or Andre Drummond. This isn't a move they're going to make though it would be hilarious.



How does Champ to MIA for Josh and a 2028 FRP and a 2029 Swap sound?

[Mr. Body]

Problem with trading Champ is that to other teams it's not clear if his improvement is sustainable or that he's a rotation guy on a playoff team (yet). Problem for the Spurs is it's not clear how good he can get. It may also not be a good sign to players now and in the future that we're ready to dump them if they develop. There's value in showing dedication to this type of player.

[mo7888]

Mark Williams is a Zion level injury time bomb. They’re not trading NSJ.

He's getting 9 minutes per game. I don't think they're committed to him.

[scott]

Problem with trading Champ is that to other teams it's not clear if his improvement is sustainable or that he's a rotation guy on a playoff team (yet). Problem for the Spurs is it's not clear how good he can get. It may also not be a good sign to players now and in the future that we're ready to dump them if they develop. There's value in showing dedication to this type of player.

Good points on all fronts, but this would be a case where Champ offers a unique value to a certain subset of teams (in large part because of his contract) and the Spurs may be able to exact an abnormal sized return for him. Certainly don't need to be shopping him... but if one of those teams comes calling?

[Mal]

Good points on all fronts, but this would be a case where Champ offers a unique value to a certain subset of teams (in large part because of his contract) and the Spurs may be able to exact an abnormal sized return for him. Certainly don't need to be shopping him... but if one of those teams comes calling?

I would love to get a swap in 203X for Champagne

[CGD]

Problem with trading Champ is that to other teams it's not clear if his improvement is sustainable or that he's a rotation guy on a playoff team (yet). Problem for the Spurs is it's not clear how good he can get. It may also not be a good sign to players now and in the future that we're ready to dump them if they develop. There's value in showing dedication to this type of player.

Agree on all these points, but I do wonder what becomes of his role once he moves back to the bench. Will he be as effective?

If he does leave SA at some I think he’d be perfect with the Knicks.

[scott]

Two part question:

1) What has to happen for NOP to be willing to move Trey Murphy III?
2) How big of a package would we be willing to put together? He's the 6'8" wing we need. Shoots well, plays D, is more than just a 3&D though, has some self creation ability. His 4/112 deal kicks in next season, which is a pretty sweet deal.

[RC_Drunkford]

There‘s no reason for them to move him. Dejounte on the other hand…

[scott]

There‘s no reason for them to move him. Dejounte on the other hand…

There is one reason: they get an offer they can't refuse.

[exstatic]

There‘s no reason for them to move him. Dejounte on the other hand…

BI looks to want to move on, and Zion looks busted. They may have to blow it up.

[Frenchfred]

Its interesting trade, but I think Spurs are giving too much. Vassell, Keldon and Clean 4 FRP is way too much, given Vassell and Keldon have positive value.

Atlanta's picks are going to be in the 12-20. If SA's picks in 26 and 29 are not worse than bottom 10, then the Spurs missed something. We still keep our 25 pick and the worst of Atlanta-SA in 2026.

Russel's, Wood's and Hood's contracts are expiring so it's essentially Davis who is having an MVP season.

Losing Collins, Branham and Johnson is not a big deal for the Spurs. I like Vassel but I always feel that he doesn't play great with Wemby.

The question is more, can the Spurs be competitive next year because Davis is already 31 so the window would be short. I feel that Paul, Castle, Barnes, Wemby, Davis is a pretty good lineup with Sochan and Champagnie from the bench. The Spurs would need another big (maybe Bassey is enough) and a guard.

[CGD]

BI looks to want to move on, and Zion looks busted. They may have to blow it up.

I dont think they are far off. They need to take the L and move off Zion and get whatever they can back. CJ will mercifully come off soon too.

A healthy SL of DJ-Tre-Herb-BI-Missi could be pretty interesting, with a Top 5 pick coming top (Harper?). Thought Missi looked good today.

[scott]

I'd give NOP for TM3:

SA25
ATL25
SA27
26 Swap (so NOP would get the best of SA/NOP/ATL and SA would get the second best of those 3, ATL would get the worst)

[heyheymymy]

Always liked some of those NOLA pieces. Herb Jones and especially Trey Murphy III. Doubtful either could be pried away but if the Pels are going to break things down and rebuild wonder if an opportunity arises.

[mo7888]

I'd give NOP for TM3:

SA25
ATL25
SA27
26 Swap (so NOP would get the best of SA/NOP/ATL and SA would get the second best of those 3, ATL would get the worst)

You'd get him now with that offer. We won't offer that much. To answer your initial question about what would it take to move him? As ex said they may blow it up, and that's what it'll take unless someone overpays significantly.

[Seventyniner]

If the Pelicans do blow things up I think they would try to keep Dejounte/Herb/Murphy and jettison the rest.

They would only trade one of those three in conjunction with offloading Zion's contract, or if they get some sort of Godfather offer.

Ingram will roll off this summer and next year McCollum will be an expiring contract. Zion is the only obstacle between now and their new era.

[exstatic]

If the Pelicans do blow things up I think they would try to keep Dejounte/Herb/Murphy and jettison the rest.

They would only trade one of those three in conjunction with offloading Zion's contract, or if they get some sort of Godfather offer.

Ingram will roll off this summer and next year McCollum will be an expiring contract. Zion is the only obstacle between now and their new era.

That’s not blowing it up, and won’t get you into the top 10, let alone the top 4. You have to strip mine the roster, get what you can, then with those picks, plus your own high picks, you can rebuild. That roster could probably make the playin.

[scott]

That’s not blowing it up, and won’t get you into the top 10, let alone the top 4. You have to strip mine the roster, get what you can, then with those picks, plus your own high picks, you can rebuild. That roster could probably make the playin.


They're the 2nd worst team in the league now... so this assertion is certainly debatable.

[scott]

You'd get him now with that offer. We won't offer that much. To answer your initial question about what would it take to move him? As ex said they may blow it up, and that's what it'll take unless someone overpays significantly.

Well, that's the point.

I know we won't offer that much... but I would. Of the three picks I'd be offering up, none of them would project to be Top 10 picks, except for maybe the 26 Swap, but most likely from it not being used (meaning, NOP just keeps their own pick).

Murphy is one of the few pieces they should keep... so I'd give them the DJM deal to get him (this is slightly better than the DJM deal... maybe you can turn one of those FRPs into a protected pick)

[LeBowen]

What would be the point of moving Murphy or Hawkins when they're the type of players you want to draft?
Herb is on a bargain contract and not a floor raiser on offense, if he's content with staying there, they won't move him.
They just got DJ and they can't move him for the same value.

I don't think anyone wants CJ at this stage of his career and Ingram just got injured again.
Zion is useless, there aren't many tanking moves to be made, they easily be the top3 worst team in the West at this pace.

[scott]

What would be the point of moving Murphy or Hawkins when they're the type of players you want to draft?
Herb is on a bargain contract and not a floor raiser on offense, if he's content with staying there, they won't move him.
They just got DJ and they can't move him for the same value.

I don't think anyone wants CJ at this stage of his career and Ingram just got injured again.
Zion is useless, there aren't many tanking moves to be made, they easily be the top3 worst team in the West at this pace.

Which is why the only way to get Trey is with a big overpay. Some of the most expensive guys to acquire are premier talents who aren't a hinderance to tanking (just like Lauri hasn't proven a hinderance to Utah tanking). But the same argument with Lauri... Trey is an extremely valuable, but rare archetype. I'd rather spend what seems like a high price, but in reality might just be a handful of Branhams.

[exstatic]

They're the 2nd worst team in the league now... so this assertion is certainly debatable.

Dejounte has been out, and BI hasn’t given a crap since they’re not meeting his number. Even if they were pretty bad, that’s only one player added to the roster, and in the wrong year,that could be mid. They also wouldn’t have a pick stash like OKC and SA have to really turbo charge their roster. That’s the template you should use,IMO. DJ is 28 and Herb is 26. Not exactly on the timeline for a 18 or. 18 YO draft pick in the next summer or two.

[scott]

Dejounte has been out, and BI hasn’t given a crap since they’re not meeting his number. Even if they were pretty bad, that’s only one player added to the roster, and in the wrong year,that could be mid. They also wouldn’t have a pick stash like OKC and SA have to really turbo charge their roster. That’s the template you should use,IMO. DJ is 28 and Herb is 26. Not exactly on the timeline for a 18 or. 18 YO draft pick in the next summer or two.

But that’s the point… they can just trade BI (and Zion for that matter, certainly he’ll return SOMETHING even if it’s not much) for what they can, load manage DJM/Trey/Herb and have a bottom 4 record. They don’t have get rid of that trio to accomplish that (I was referring to your comment that keeping DJM/Trey/Herb wouldn’t even get them a bottom 10 record, but maybe I misunderstood your point).

NOP is in one of those situations where they aren’t actually as bad as their record indicates and they luck into Flagg to plug right into Zion’s spot and are immediately a playoff team again. This is of course the reason they absolutely should NOT trade Murphy.

From listening to Vecenie and some others though sounds like NOP might end up resigning BI for more like $35-40MM/year. I wouldn’t if I were them though… trade him for some draft capital, tank this year for a top 4 pick, make some smart FA moves, and move forward. I don’t think NOP’s rebuild process needs to be a full tear down.

[scott]

Posted this in the Champ thread but will put here as well:

Not that I have a strong desire to get rid of him, but Julian might sneakily be one of our absolute best trade assets to a very specific subset of teams. Dude plays solid defense, is a decent (but inconsistent - which can be fixed) shooter, and is under contract for less than 2% of the cap for two more years after this one.

A 1st apron team (who cannot take back more salary than they send) with atrocious depth would LOVE a guy like Champ. The Spurs can take back up to $6.25MM for Julian, and a 1st team would just have to send out $3MM or more. The Spurs would obviously require draft compensation for this, and I think Julian could actually net an FRP from a playoff team looking to make a move like this.

Here are all the teams to whom this would apply




DEN could send any one of: Saric, Westbrook, Braun, Holmes. I think Saric is the only one who makes even a little bit of sense, but it leaves DEN even weaker in bench bigs and they probably don't need another SF. That might be the only position they're okay on depth wise.
PHX is actually who could probably use Julian the most but they don't have any contracts that work
MIN could only send NAW, so they probably wouldn't do that.
BOS could send Jaden Springer, who I've heard somewhere that they might actually look to move, but I'm not sure they need Julian... but they do love to shoot 3s, play some D, and get great value from the Spurs.
MIL has no one they can send
LAL could send Christian Wood, Dalton Knecht (not going to happen), or Jalen Hood-Schifino. The Lakers declined JHS's 3rd year option so this would actually be a perfect move for them if they wanted to add a player like Champ.
NYK could send Miles McBride or Precious Achiuwa, they aren't going to do either of those things.
MIA could send: Josh Richardson, Jaime Jaquez, Kevin Love, Kel Ware, or Haywood Highsmith. Richardson and Love would be the realistic options, probably Josh.
PHI could send: Eric Gordon, Jared McCain, or Andre Drummond. This isn't a move they're going to make though it would be hilarious.



How does Champ to MIA for Josh and a 2028 FRP and a 2029 Swap sound?

I didn't realize (until right now) that some of these teams can still aggregate outgoing salary if they wanted to make a move for Julian. That puts DEN and PHI in play to send us a pair of min contracts. Champ would fit really well with what Denver needs.

Again, this isn't an effort to get rid of Champ - it's just that he provides unique value to certain teams because they can acquire a useful vet player in exchange for end of bench scrubs who aren't playing because of just how good Julian's contract is.

[CGD]

Where are all the Zach to Pacers trade ideas? Y’all slacking on the job

[CGD]

Champ has become almost unmovable on a standalone basis: his contract and production make him an incredible bargain (including to the Spurs), which in turn levers up his asking price beyond what is probably reasonable for a rational team to give up.

[scott]

Where are all the Zach to Pacers trade ideas? Y’all slacking on the job

If the Spurs wanted to deal directly with IND and send them Collins, the Pacers would have to send out about $9.5MM or more in salary.

They could accomplish this directly with Nesmith or Toppin (I'd love Nesmith, and then flip Keldon for Big Daddy Val and you've upgraded Collins and Keldon into Jonas and Nesmith, huge W) -OR- something like Jarace Walker and Isaiah Jackson (who is out for the year, and the Spurs would need to waive someone, Jackson is in the last year of his deal and is set to become an RFA, but might have resign or sign-and-trade value so you probably don't want to waive him. You could waive Sidy as he is not guaranteed for next year).

Beyond that, IND would have to aggregate like 4 guys which would 1) mean the Spurs have to waive 3 and 2) IND would have to sign a bunch of vets on min deals.

3-team deals open up more options.

I'd be totally up for Collins + Draft Picks for Nesmith.

[ace3g]

I'd look at options to get Yasubele to the Spurs.

[CGD]

We have a trade deadline streak to keep alive this year!

- 2024: Dougie to IND
- 2023: Jakob to TOR; Richardson to NOLA
- 2022: D. White to BOS; Thad/Drew to TOR
- 2021: Rights to some scrub for $$

[Leetonidas]

Heat listening to offers on Butler. Preferred teams are Houston, GS, and Dallas.

Don't see Houston gutting their roster for an aging Butler. Dallas would have to trade Kyrie or their ensemble which would defeat the purpose. GS is over the 2nd apron I believe and thus cannot aggregate players. Tough to see any realistic situation where Butler is traded to one of his preferred teams or a contender without a third team getting involved

[scott]

Heat listening to offers on Butler. Preferred teams are Houston, GS, and Dallas.

Don't see Houston gutting their roster for an aging Butler. Dallas would have to trade Kyrie or their ensemble which would defeat the purpose. GS is over the 2nd apron I believe and thus cannot aggregate players. Tough to see any realistic situation where Butler is traded to one of his preferred teams or a contender without a third team getting involved

GSW is just barely under the second apron and can still aggregate... but it would be tricky.

GSW could send Wiggins, Melton, Kuminga and Gui Santos and make it a legal trade, but would need to find a way to add more players to the roster via FA min deals, and MIA would have to waive two players (Santos and Melton)

[Mr. Body]

Houston can't trade Jalen Green easily due to a poison pill and the only obvious salary match is FVV.

Dallas is a non starter. They can't do it.

GSW will need to aggregate players but seem like the most obvious possibility, maybe the only one. Everyone is talking Kuminga but I don't know if he's worth it, he's asking and expecting a big contract and he hasn't really consistently showed the value.

[Mr. Body]

I'm not sure why Houston would go for him now anyway. Not the right timeline.

[spurraider21]

dallas would have to send Kyrie to reasonably make it work

if not they have to get a 3rd team involved and give up a LOT of players to cobble together the salary math, including Gafford, PJ Washington, Kleber (for the salary), and probably even Nnaji Marshall (who has been quite good for them)

makes no sense unless they want to do a Kyrie trade

[spurraider21]

i could see houston going for it. they have a good amount of talent but lack a closer.

[Mal]

Champ has become almost unmovable on a standalone basis: his contract and production make him an incredible bargain (including to the Spurs), which in turn levers up his asking price beyond what is probably reasonable for a rational team to give up.

You could find GM/ coach on kinda hot seat, who would not give a fuck about pick 5-7 years down the line from now.

[jjspur]

I can see Houston making a trade to move up in the standings even more, I just don't think its for Butler. Way way too much to give up for an expensive, aging, and often injured star.

[CGD]

I can see Houston making a trade to move up in the standings even more, I just don't think its for Butler. Way way too much to give up for an expensive, aging, and often injured star.

Jimmy to Houston makes a ton of sense. Ime is probably keen on getting more vets in, which is why they were linked to Durant this summer. Problem is the the matching salary, right? I assume they want to keep the current vets like Fred and Dillon.

[baseline bum]

I'd give NOP for TM3:

SA25
ATL25
SA27
26 Swap (so NOP would get the best of SA/NOP/ATL and SA would get the second best of those 3, ATL would get the worst)

That's more than you were willing to give up for Markannen man :lol

[scott]

That's more than you were willing to give up for Markannen man :lol

Had to go search for it, but this is the last proposal I mentioned in the Lauri thread:


I still like my best offer of Keldon + SA26 + SA28 + SA30 + MIN31, and I'd even be willing to add Sochan

A few key distinctions:

At the time, the ATL picks had an unknown quality to them and were expected to be better. We now see that at least ATL25 ain't going to be all that.

The even number year picks I was including for Lauri perfectly aligned with Utah's pick warchest, because they are especially heavy in the odd years, and SA30 and MIN31 pick specifically offered unique value to Utah so they could completely own MIN's draft through 2031 (as the SA30 would have a swap with MIN attached).

But even so... there are two key characteristics that drive Murphy's price up relative to Lauri: age and contract.

With that said... fair call out :lol

[baseline bum]

Had to go search for it, but this is the last proposal I mentioned in the Lauri thread:



A few key distinctions:

At the time, the ATL picks had an unknown quality to them and were expected to be better. We now see that at least ATL25 ain't going to be all that.

The even number year picks I was including for Lauri perfectly aligned with Utah's pick warchest, because they are especially heavy in the odd years, and SA30 and MIN31 pick specifically offered unique value to Utah so they could completely own MIN's draft through 2031 (as the SA30 would have a swap with MIN attached).

But even so... there are two key characteristics that drive Murphy's price up relative to Lauri: age and contract.

With that said... fair call out :lol

It's a ton to give up for a guy with a 14.9 PER, a 0.1 VORP, a 120 defensive rating (same as Ingram and McCollum), and who shoots 34% from the three. He seems like empty calories counting stats. I don't think I'd even give the Atlanta pick for him.

[scott]

It's a ton to give up for a guy with a 14.9 PER, a 0.1 VORP, a 120 defensive rating (same as Ingram and McCollum), and who shoots 34% from the three. He seems like empty calories counting stats. I don't think I'd even give the Atlanta pick for him.

Team context matters. Herb Jones is regarded as a premier defender, but he has a 118 defensive rating on the same team (to go along with a lower PER and VORP). You could also look beyond this abysmal season for NOP and see he’s a career .388 3P Shooter, DRTG of 115, 114 and 114 in his previous 3 seasons in the league, and advanced defensive metrics that (aside from rim protection stats) grade out in the top half of all defenders in the league. https://craftednba.com/players/trey-murphy-iii

I’d happily give up three future Branhams for him.

[baseline bum]

Team context matters. Herb Jones is regarded as a premier defender, but he has a 118 defensive rating on the same team (to go along with a lower PER and VORP). You could also look beyond this abysmal season for NOP and see he’s a career .388 3P Shooter, DRTG of 115, 114 and 114 in his previous 3 seasons in the league, and advanced defensive metrics that (aside from rim protection stats) grade out in the top half of all defenders in the league. https://craftednba.com/players/trey-murphy-iii

I’d happily give up three future Branhams for him.

Would you give up a Vassell, a Castle, a Sochan, and a Branham for him though? I don't think I would.

[quentin_compson]

More like a trade target than a trade idea, but I wonder if the Spurs might look at Anfernee Simons, especially if they were to move on from Keldon. Simons is on a reasonable contract through the 25/26 season and a good shooter - not so much this season so far, but for his career, he is at over 38% from three on 11.7 attempts per 100 possessions. He is not a good defender, but neither is Keldon, and I think Simons could at least be passable in a good defensive team concept.

[exstatic]

More like a trade target than a trade idea, but I wonder if the Spurs might look at Anfernee Simons, especially if they were to move on from Keldon. Simons is on a reasonable contract through the 25/26 season and a good shooter - not so much this season so far, but for his career, he is at over 38% from three on 11.7 attempts per 100 possessions. He is not a good defender, but neither is Keldon, and I think Simons could at least be passable in a good defensive team concept.

Simons is one of those guys like Hield who are really only valuable when they’re railing threes.

[LeBowen]

The more I think about it, the more I want a big trade with the Jazz to happen.
Trade that would solve most of our depth and role problems.

As I just wrote in Collins thread, Jazz's Collins would be ideal for us.
Great at both PF and C, can space the floor and be an inside presence on offense.
He's solid enough as a backup big and would run most slow footed backups off the floor.
He'd also enable Jeremy to be way more effective when Wemby sits.

My other take is that we need a triple threat scoring guard off the bench who can be the spark when things slow down.
I mentioned some names, but Sexton being on the trade block would be ideal to combine into one big trade that would work for both teams.
He's a career 39% 3pt shooter, at 43% this season. His assists went down because they're trying to develop so many guards and that's why he's available.

John Collins makes $26.5M and Sexton makes $18.3M.
Two of our unwanted players who need upgrading are Keldon at $19M and Zach at $16.7M.
$9.1M difference between those two pairs. Guess who makes $9.1M and would be redundant if we get Sexton? You guessed right, Tre Jones.

Jazz would free up extra $9.1M for the next season if they don't want Tre and they can easily trade him for some SRPs because contenders always need backup point guards.
The only extra money they'd take is Keldon's $17.5M in 26-27 season, but I don't think they'll be concerned with it since they're at the start of their rebuild and they don't have any useful SFs right now.

Rotation after the trade:
CP3/Sexton
Devin/Castle
Champagnie/Barnes
Jeremy/Collins
Wemby/Bassey

With Bassey being situational backup big and Collins taking his minutes.
Three actual forwards and one PF/C for 96 forward minutes seems good to me. With only one being a non-shooter.
Collins would easily get 25 minutes each night and more when he's doing well.

We'd also have 4 guards that are interchangeable and any combination would work.
When CP3 leaves, 3 of them wouldn't need another guard for the rotation. Just an emergency backup in case someone's injured. Champagnie can also slide to SG.


Obviously the picks question presents itself. How much would we have to add?
I think that MIN FRP and swap we got this draft would be enough because those are the only picks Jazz is missing to control Timberwolves future up until 20131.
I think turning a #8 pick in a weak draft into two key bench pieces and getting rid of Keldon/Collins in the process would be great work.

As for contracts, both Sexton and John Collins have one more year left after this one, but I don't think they can ask for more anywhere.
Collins got that deal when Hawks thought he'd be their #2, but he'll never reach that ceiling. With so few teams having cap space, noone will offer him another big contract.

[ginobilized]

If the Jazz do this trade, it's a no-brainer for us, strategically.

I see us a bit thin at the SF position and would keep the starters the same as the current lineup.

A 2nd unit of Sexton/Vassell/Sochan/Collins/Bassey would be formidable and seems like there would be some great chemistry there.

IF this happens, do we call him Jollins? Not sure I could live with myself and use that moniker.

[LeBowen]

I see us a bit thin at the SF position and would keep the starters the same as the current lineup.

Really? I think that lineups with Jeremy at SF and Barnes or Collins at PF would be perfectly fine. We'd have Champ/Barnes/Jeremy/Castle for SF position, depending on the rotations.

Then in the summer if CP3 leaves and the cap goes up by projected $14M, we'd be $25M under the cap, with Barnes on easily tradeable expiring $19M.
Consolidate picks to draft BPA or get a SF upgrade and move Champ to the bench.

Chances of all this happening are probably less than 1%, but a man can dream.

[quentin_compson]

Simons is one of those guys like Hield who are really only valuable when they’re railing threes.

First off, I disagree. Simons is also a decent enough secondary playmaker - last season, his assist percentage was at 27.6, this season it is at 23.6 so far.
Secondly, I think you don't quite understand how valuable players with the ability to shoot threes in the high 30s and at a high volume are in this day's NBA.

[scott]

Would you give up a Vassell, a Castle, a Sochan, and a Branham for him though? I don't think I would.

I'm operating under the assumption that by making this move we'd be a playoff team this year, and not look back.

If you expect our picks to be lotto picks, then they're probably off limits (but at that point you wouldn't need so many of them to land another player. Part of the reason you need 3 of them in this hypothetical is because they wouldn't project to be lotto picks).

[baseline bum]

I'm operating under the assumption that by making this move we'd be a playoff team this year, and not look back.

If you expect our picks to be lotto picks, then they're probably off limits (but at that point you wouldn't need so many of them to land another player. Part of the reason you need 3 of them in this hypothetical is because they wouldn't project to be lotto picks).

I do expect our 25 to be a lotto pick (and don't think TM3 would change that in this brutal conference), the Atlanta 25 to be a lotto pick, and good odds at least one of the 26 ATL swap and the 27 ATL pick is a lotto pick. And if not lotto picks then probably picks around 16. Sochan was a #9 pick, Castle would have probably gone around #8 in a normal draft (and 25 and 26 should be great drafts), Vassell went #11, Branham #20. I think that's the kind of talent you can expect out of those three picks and a swap but with the upside that maybe you get into the top 4 and get a legitimate star with one of them. I'm not dumping four good swings at the plate unless I'm getting a cornerstone piece. Markannen would have been one hence my willingness to include 2 of the 3 ATL unprotecteds plus two more firsts but no way on a role player of questionable value.

[scott]

More like a trade target than a trade idea, but I wonder if the Spurs might look at Anfernee Simons, especially if they were to move on from Keldon. Simons is on a reasonable contract through the 25/26 season and a good shooter - not so much this season so far, but for his career, he is at over 38% from three on 11.7 attempts per 100 possessions. He is not a good defender, but neither is Keldon, and I think Simons could at least be passable in a good defensive team concept.

If Simons were accepting of the Microwave Bench Scorer role (which is exactly the kind of role that wins 6MOY awards), then I like it. He's a flawed player, like most small-ish scorer combo guards, but still very useful. He's not like Hield at all, and that might actually be one of the laziest comparison's I've seen on this sight and if not for me thinking that the Bojan and Bogdan were brothers, one of the worst things I've read of late.

But I think this is exactly the archetype this team needs to round it out. That Simons/Cam Thomas/Jordan Poole/Coby White/Terry Rozier mold. The problem is a lot of these things think they should be the star of the team and not a bench player... and they all want to get paid a lot despite being a pretty common archetype (Lonnie Walker, Malaki Branham, etc being the recent budget versions that have come through the door here).


If the Jazz do this trade, it's a no-brainer for us, strategically.

I see us a bit thin at the SF position and would keep the starters the same as the current lineup.

A 2nd unit of Sexton/Vassell/Sochan/Collins/Bassey would be formidable and seems like there would be some great chemistry there.

IF this happens, do we call him Jollins? Not sure I could live with myself and use that moniker.

I agree about the deficiency it greats at SF. When Champ goes to the bench you'd have to make a decision to either go small (with Castle or Vassell at SF) or big (with Sochan or Barnes at SF). With that said, not the worst problem to have... just does force you into one of those two choices.

The Sexton/Jollins combo isn't my #1 preferred solution to Keldon/Zollins - but I like it well enough! Good thinking LeBowen.

I was thinking about Time Lord a little bit - and if Bassey can get a little more consistency (which comes with reps) then I think he could be a real possibility. Time Lord's biggest problem is that even though he's healthy now he needs to be severely load managed. That might actually be okay though with us trying to develop Bassey. It gets Bassey more regular playing time without over relying on him.

The same argument with Time Lord could apply to Steven Adams, who I've always loved as a player. And I think Adams would be a great person for Bassey to model his game after.

[scott]

I do expect our 25 to be a lotto pick (and don't think TM3 would change that in this brutal conference), the Atlanta 25 to be a lotto pick, and good odds at least one of the 26 ATL swap and the 27 ATL pick is a lotto pick. And if not lotto picks then probably picks around 16. Sochan was a #9 pick, Castle would have probably gone around #8 in a normal draft (and 25 and 26 should be great drafts), Vassell went #11, Branham #20. I think that's the kind of talent you can expect out of those three picks and a swap but with the upside that maybe you get into the top 4 and get a legitimate star with one of them. I'm not dumping four good swings at the plate unless I'm getting a cornerstone piece. Markannen would have been one hence my willingness to include 2 of the 3 ATL unprotecteds plus two more firsts but no way on a role player of questionable value.

If that's where I expected those picks to land, I wouldn't make that offer (also, I didn't offer ATL27, that's the one I want to keep - counting on the uncertainty of that pick to provide upside). I expect our pick this year to be somewhere between 12-18 (with about a 55% chance of being a lotto pick), the ATL pick to be somewhere between 11-18 (with around a 55% chance of NOT being a lotto pick), and SA27 to be in the 20s (it fucking better be).

If we somehow had a crystal ball and could look into the future and say SA25 and ATL25 would absolutely be lottery picks - my offer to NOP would change to one of SA or ATL25 and SA 27.

[LeBowen]

I was thinking about Time Lord a little bit - and if Bassey can get a little more consistency (which comes with reps) then I think he could be a real possibility. Time Lord's biggest problem is that even though he's healthy now he needs to be severely load managed. That might actually be okay though with us trying to develop Bassey. It gets Bassey more regular playing time without over relying on him.

I don't think having two backup bigs with serious injury history would be a good idea. Especially not since they're similar players.
Having a backup who can stretch the floor would be invaluable. Especially if he can also play PF. Really hard to find those around the league, that's why I'd upgrade Collins to Collins.

Bottom line stays the same, I won't change my opinion that we need a triple threat, defense collapsing guard off the bench and a Collins upgrade. Can't make the play-in without those two players. We're really top heavy right now.

[baseline bum]

If that's where I expected those picks to land, I wouldn't make that offer (also, I didn't offer ATL27, that's the one I want to keep - counting on the uncertainty of that pick to provide upside). I expect our pick this year to be somewhere between 12-18 (with about a 55% chance of being a lotto pick), the ATL pick to be somewhere between 11-18 (with around a 55% chance of NOT being a lotto pick), and SA27 to be in the 20s (it fucking better be).

If we somehow had a crystal ball and could look into the future and say SA25 and ATL25 would absolutely be lottery picks - my offer to NOP would change to one of SA or ATL25 and SA 27.

My bad, got the 27 picks switched up. Oh well I'll call that the Branham pick then since that was the #20. :lol

I'm thinking the Spurs are 95% picking in the lotto this year when the playin teams so far are Denver, LA (who suck but own us), Minnesota, and Phoenix, and when I think Sacramento will probably finish the season with a better record than us too. Hawks probably 60-40 on playoffs but they'll either be the worst or second worst record in the playoffs most likely.

[LeBowen]

I'm thinking the Spurs are 95% picking in the lotto this year when the playin teams so far are Denver, LA (who suck but own us), Minnesota, and Phoenix, and when I think Sacramento will probably finish the season with a better record than us too. Hawks probably 60-40 on playoffs but they'll either be the worst or second worst record in the playoffs most likely.

I disagree about Sacramento, I think we're a better team when everyone gets back to full health.
Utah, Portland and NOLA are guaranteed bottom 3 at this point, if we are ahead of the Kings we need to beat just one more team.
Lakers are a bad matchup for us, but they seem to be close to implosion and might finally crumble this season.

Play-in games are random, especially with Wemby's potential to go off, but we probably wouldn't have a chance in the first round.
Still, it would be invaluable experience for the young guys.

[scott]

I don't think having two backup bigs with serious injury history would be a good idea. Especially not since they're similar players.
Having a backup who can stretch the floor would be invaluable. Especially if he can also play PF. Really hard to find those around the league, that's why I'd upgrade Collins to Collins.

Bottom line stays the same, I won't change my opinion that we need a triple threat, defense collapsing guard off the bench and a Collins upgrade. Can't make the play-in without those two players. We're really top heavy right now.

I disagree a little about Jollins. The flexibility of a PF/C is nice, but it in some ways recreates some of the same problems we have with Zollins: he'll get abused inside and on the boards by big physical C's like Zubac, Jonas, Gafford, etc.

Looking at DunksAndThrees, here is how Zollins and Jollins grade out on the three most important metrics I want from our backup C, and then compared to other guys who fit more closely what I'd want from that position. I included Sengun at the end just for reference as he's considered "soft" inside, but he actually grades out better in these metrics than both Collins'. I also included Jalen Smith just for our friend exstatic. The numbers represent their percentile ranking compared to the rest of the league:




Zollins
Jollins
Jonas
Adams
TimeLord
Zubac
Jak
Drummond
Plumlee
Capela
Lively
Gafford
CBass
Sengun
Jalen Smith


BLK
82
73
81
80
98
83
91
79
80
89
96
98
99
76
87


OREB
82
90
94
99
93
94
95
99
88
98
95
92
97
91
90


DREB
77
81
99
92
91
97
92
100
97
96
90
84
94
92
91



Looking at this list just makes me more pissed off that this front office ever thought Collins was worth this extension. Zollins and Jollins are the two of the highest paid dudes on this list... and they are the two I'd actually want the least as a backup C :lol

[Dverde]

Hell no to Sexton, that player is not the answer.

[scott]

My bad, got the 27 picks switched up. Oh well I'll call that the Branham pick then since that was the #20. :lol

I'm thinking the Spurs are 95% picking in the lotto this year when the playin teams so far are Denver, LA (who suck but own us), Minnesota, and Phoenix, and when I think Sacramento will probably finish the season with a better record than us too. Hawks probably 60-40 on playoffs but they'll either be the worst or second worst record in the playoffs most likely.

Yeah that's not too far off from where I put us... but #11 in the west is more than likely going to result in pick #12. If ATL makes the playoffs, they'll end up with pick #15 or higher, if they get booted in the play-in they'll probably be pick #11.

So if it were guaranteed to be pick #11 and #12, I'd offer one of those and SA27.

[rascal]

I disagree about Sacramento, I think we're a better team when everyone gets back to full health.
Utah, Portland and NOLA are guaranteed bottom 3 at this point, if we are ahead of the Kings we need to beat just one more team.
Lakers are a bad matchup for us, but they seem to be close to implosion and might finally crumble this season.

Play-in games are random, especially with Wemby's potential to go off, but we probably wouldn't have a chance in the first round.
Still, it would be invaluable experience for the young guys.

The experience of losing in the first round means nothing if the roster isn't upgraded. This core roster is going no where and just hoping for internal developement is not the way to improve enough to be a contender.

[LeBowen]

The experience of losing in the first round means nothing if the roster isn't upgraded.

It actually means a lot to those players individually.


This core roster is going no where and just hoping for internal developement is not the way to improve enough to be a contender.

Yeah, we definitely aren't on pace to improve from last season's 22 wins.
Sometimes I wonder why some of you even come in here if all you're going to do is act as if you're about to hang yourself with all the defeatism.
Can things be better? Yes.
Do we need to improve the roster? Yes.
Are we making progress? Yes, and it's not even up for discussion.

What's even our core roster?
Wemby, a guy we just drafted looks like he'll be the second best player on the roster in a year or two, Devin and maybe Jeremy, with Champagnie emerging as great long-term bench piece.
There wasn't any core roster last season.

[baseline bum]

It actually means a lot to those players individually.



Yeah, we definitely aren't on pace to improve from last season's 22 wins.
Sometimes I wonder why some of you even come in here if all you're going to do is act as if you're about to hang yourself with all the defeatism.
Can things be better? Yes.
Do we need to improve the roster? Yes.
Are we making progress? Yes, and it's not even up for discussion.

What's even our core roster?
Wemby, a guy we just drafted looks like he'll be the second best player on the roster in a year or two, Devin and maybe Jeremy, with Champagnie emerging as great long-term bench piece.
There wasn't any core roster last season.

Yeah this team being around .500 is a huge jump. I think this would be a playoff team most years but the West is just so ridiculous this last couple of years and everyone the Spurs will be fighting with for that last playoff spot is loaded with high end veterans: e.g., Jokic, Edwards, Davis, Booker, Durant, Sabonis, Fox, etc.

[scott]

It actually means a lot to those players individually.



Yeah, we definitely aren't on pace to improve from last season's 22 wins.
Sometimes I wonder why some of you even come in here if all you're going to do is act as if you're about to hang yourself with all the defeatism.
Can things be better? Yes.
Do we need to improve the roster? Yes.
Are we making progress? Yes, and it's not even up for discussion.

What's even our core roster?
Wemby, a guy we just drafted looks like he'll be the second best player on the roster in a year or two, Devin and maybe Jeremy, with Champagnie emerging as great long-term bench piece.
There wasn't any core roster last season.

Yeah, and it's not like if we make the playoffs this year we can't and won't continue to improve the team (we will, however, need to start cashing in those trade chips, and not for more 20131 swaps).

Rascal is just stuck in the permatank mindset where the only way to improve the team is to get a top pick and draft the guy who can jump highest. Of course, that's how you end up like his favorite team, the Blazers.

[LeBowen]

Yeah, and it's not like if we make the playoffs this year we can't and won't continue to improve the team (we will, however, need to start cashing in those trade chips, and not for more 20131 swaps).

Rascal is just stuck in the permatank mindset where the only way to improve the team is to get a top pick and draft the guy who can jump highest. Of course, that's how you end up like his favorite team, the Blazers.

Meanwhile, OKC has just 1 top10 pick of their own in their rotation.
Grizzlies have 3, got Edey as third just because their entire roster got injured last year.
Rockets have 4, but Sheppard is a non-factor if we're talking their current success.
Mavs have 1, make it 2 if you want to include Lively they traded down for.

That's the top of the conference.

Spurs currently have our own #1, #4, #9, #11 picks as core members of the rotation and arguably the 4 most untradeable players on the roster.
How many more do we really need, especially since our #1 pick is unquestionably going to be the best player in the league in no time.

I'd honestly ban teams from having top10 picks in more than 3 consecutive seasons. If you're incompetent, nothing helps. Spurs have the second longest playoff drought in the league right now and some peole still want to tank, that's just embarrassing.

[scott]

Meanwhile, OKC has just 1 top10 pick of their own in their rotation.
Grizzlies have 3, got Edey as third just because their entire roster got injured last year.
Rockets have 4, but Sheppard is a non-factor if we're talking their current success.
Mavs have 1, make it 2 if you want to include Lively they traded down for.

That's the top of the conference.

Spurs currently have our own #1, #4, #9, #11 picks as core members of the rotation and arguably the 4 most untradeable players on the roster.
How many more do we really need, especially since our #1 pick is unquestionably going to be the best player in the league in no time.

I'd honestly ban teams from having top10 picks in more than 3 consecutive seasons. If you're incompetent, nothing helps. Spurs have the second longest playoff drought in the league right now and some peole still want to tank, that's just embarrassing.

Yep. Especially considering we have the draft capital to acquire what we need via trade. There is no need for us to have to rely on draft picks (which come with risk) going forward when we can just go out and buy sure things.

And just for good measure... #LauriThread2025

[baseline bum]

Yep. Especially considering we have the draft capital to acquire what we need via trade. There is no need for us to have to rely on draft picks (which come with risk) going forward when we can just go out and buy sure things.

And just for good measure... #LauriThread2025

From the start I have wanted to consolidate those picks; wish we could have done it for Lauri back when those ATL picks looked golden.

[KobesAchilles]

Assuming the Kings miss the playoffs again? Would they trade us Sabonis or Fox? I like the idea of going after one of these two players in the offseason. Also I would trade a SRP for DJ. I miss his cryptic posts

[LeBowen]

Assuming the Kings miss the playoffs again? Would they trade us Sabonis or Fox? I like the idea of going after one of these two players in the offseason. Also I would trade a SRP for DJ. I miss his cryptic posts

Self-proclaimed expert wants to get a big who doesn't protect the rim or space the floor and is on a max contract for the next 4 years.

[KobesAchilles]

Self-proclaimed expert wants to get a big who doesn't protect the rim or space the floor and is on a max contract for the next 4 years.
It's weird bc I thought we already had a rim protector...

I like the way Sabonis plays. He's a very smart player, sets tough screens, moves well without the ball. He doesn't have to shoot it 15 times a game to impact the game. He's a savy passer and makes heads up plays whenever there is traffic in the lane. Plus he's a monster rebounder.

It is true that he isn't a very good defender. But if he were that, then he'd probably be the best player in the league tbh and Sac wouldn't want to trade him

[LeBowen]

It's weird bc I thought we already had a rim protector...

I like the way Sabonis plays. He's a very smart player, sets tough screens, moves well without the ball. He doesn't have to shoot it 15 times a game to impact the game. He's a savy passer and makes heads up plays whenever there is traffic in the lane. Plus he's a monster rebounder.

It is true that he isn't a very good defender. But if he were that, then he'd probably be the best player in the league tbh and Sac wouldn't want to trade him

He's a great player...the problem is that bigs who can't protect the rim lose most of their value in the playoffs.
Jokic has a lot of size on him and it took a lot of defensive work and improvement for him to become solid on that end, Sabonis is nowhere near that level.
And unfortuantely basketball has moved away from post scoring and smart plays, it's all about 3pt chucking.
Wemby being the best example. Chucking 3pts is as good as posting up in most games and uses way less energy.

[KobesAchilles]

I know that bball has all become Moreyball. But I'm not worried about winning a championship in 4 years. IMO that's not a feasible goal currently bc in order to achieve it, you'd have to gut like 75% of the roster or just make major changes. I want us just to be a playoff team first. I want Wemby to get playoff experience asap.

This isn't a shot at you. But when do you honestly expect us to make the playoffs? My own guess is 2027. I wonder what you're timeframe is.

I think getting Sabonis while flawed defensively would get us to a 2nd round playoff team over the next 4 years. Maybe a WCF if we hit on some picks and players continue to improve. That would make Wemby 25 and entering his prime with a huge amount of playoff experience and hopefully by then his game will be at level where he has the capability to carry us to a ring or two.

[LeBowen]

This isn't a shot at you. But when do you honestly expect us to make the playoffs? My own guess is 2027. I wonder what you're timeframe is.

Not making the playoffs next season would be an absolute disaster.
There are too many old teams in the conference that are close to their expiry date.

Jazz and Blazers just started their rebuilds.
Pelicans are a dumpster fire.
Kings reached their ceiling and are treadmilling.
Suns have no assets left and KD is 36, their record without him is horrible and he can't stay healthy anymore.
Lakers will implode this season, they're done.
Clippers always manage to be decent, but Harden is 35 and nephew is retired at this point.
Warriors are trying to stay competitive, but Curry is in noticable decline and be 37 before the playoffs start.

That's 8 teams that are either far away from the playoffs or trending downwards because of age.
And it's not like the situation is great for some playoff teams.

Timberwolves managed to shoot themelves in the foot, got worse without solving their horrible cap situation.
Nuggets have the best player in the world and one of the worst rosters in the league around him.
Thunder, Grizzlies, Rockets and Mavs look like the only teams that surely won't get worse in 2025-26 season.

We have Wemby, a few players with good potential, a lot of picks and good cap situation.
If we don't make the playoffs (not play-in) in 2025-26 season, Brian Wright can pack his bags, tbh.


I think getting Sabonis while flawed defensively would get us to a 2nd round playoff team over the next 4 years. Maybe a WCF if we hit on some picks and players continue to improve. That would make Wemby 25 and entering his prime with a huge amount of playoff experience and hopefully by then his game will be at level where he has the capability to carry us to a ring or two.

I definitely agree that Wemby should have multiple star teammates across his timeline and I'd get someone who's contract expires before Wemby's extension kicks in, I just don't think Sabonis is the guy. I think we're past the idea of Wemby playing with another big unless that big can defend the perimeter and is a legit 3pt shooter.

[scott]

tbh I think Sabonis could actually work... not advocating we put a lot of effort into thinking about it, and it's not my preferred option... but I could definitely see it ***if*** Castle developed into a shooter at PG and you had a high level defending 3&D wing as well.

Castle
Vassell
A Clone of Danny Green
Sabonis
Wemby

[$pursDynasty]

I hear the Pelicans might be willing to trade Herb Jones, not a great need but we have a mountain of assets, Herb's game is what Pop loves. So I know he would fit, but what would he cost and would you guys be willing to pay it, to add an elite defender to the roster, he is a prime Nephew level defender.

[LeBowen]

I hear the Pelicans might be willing to trade Herb Jones, not a great need but we have a mountain of assets, Herb's game is what Pop loves. So I know he would fit, but what would he cost and would you guys be willing to pay it, to add an elite defender to the roster, he is a prime Nephew level defender.

Anyone is tradeable if the offer is right. Pelicans probably don't even pick up the phone if the offer is less than 2 legit FRPs.
And then some more if they have to take a bad contract in return. Meaning no Collins or Keldon. Yeah, I know they need bigs, but I doubt they'd take Collins.

Probably something like Tre+Branham+2 FRPs.

If we're talking stars asking out, I'd just wait to see what happens with Fox.
Devin+Tre+picks for Fox would be the best offer they can get.

Win now scenario:
Devin+Tre+picks for Fox
Collins+picks for Herb
Keldon+picks for Cam Johnson

Fox/Castle/Herb/Cam/Wemby
CP3/Champ/Jeremy/Bassey

[Jordan Jackson]

Sabonis is ehhh. Kings do need to dump him or find a real big man to play next to him. They actually need to fire Mike Brown but that’s a whole other conversation.

I still like Herb Jones. I think the Spurs should go all in on an elite defense. Wemby/Castle and him would be a good start. POA defenders at the Wing and guard would probably free Wemby to be a little more aggressive on defense and not so help conscious.

Anyway, I’m sure the Spurs “like what we have”’. Fun to spit ball though.

[spurraider21]

tbh I think Sabonis could actually work... not advocating we put a lot of effort into thinking about it, and it's not my preferred option... but I could definitely see it ***if*** Castle developed into a shooter at PG and you had a high level defending 3&D wing as well.

Castle
Vassell
A Clone of Danny Green
Sabonis
Wemby
its weird cause last year playing wemby alongside another center was bad. but this year it has looked fine with sochan who has more or less stopped shooting 3's and is doing pretty well in the paint on that end, so he's basically been an undersized center offensively. pair that with wemby being much more of a shooter than last year, and you wonder if they can re-try playing him with a center. sabonis is a better paint finisher than sochan, and is a better passer/playmaker. certainly an elite rebounder

the issue then is defensively, wemby is still much much better as a paint defender than using his length to flail at 3 point shooters. and sabonis doesnt do anything well on defense aside from hunting for rebounds. you basically need another big who can cross-match... plays more of a center role on offense, more of a PF role on defense. its not a very common archetype.

[KobesAchilles]

Not making the playoffs next season would be an absolute disaster.
There are too many old teams in the conference that are close to their expiry date.

Jazz and Blazers just started their rebuilds.
Pelicans are a dumpster fire.
Kings reached their ceiling and are treadmilling.
Suns have no assets left and KD is 36, their record without him is horrible and he can't stay healthy anymore.
Lakers will implode this season, they're done.
Clippers always manage to be decent, but Harden is 35 and nephew is retired at this point.
Warriors are trying to stay competitive, but Curry is in noticable decline and be 37 before the playoffs start.

That's 8 teams that are either far away from the playoffs or trending downwards because of age.
And it's not like the situation is great for some playoff teams.

Timberwolves managed to shoot themelves in the foot, got worse without solving their horrible cap situation.
Nuggets have the best player in the world and one of the worst rosters in the league around him.
Thunder, Grizzlies, Rockets and Mavs look like the only teams that surely won't get worse in 2025-26 season.

We have Wemby, a few players with good potential, a lot of picks and good cap situation.
If we don't make the playoffs (not play-in) in 2025-26 season, Brian Wright can pack his bags, tbh.



I definitely agree that Wemby should have multiple star teammates across his timeline and I'd get someone who's contract expires before Wemby's extension kicks in, I just don't think Sabonis is the guy. I think we're past the idea of Wemby playing with another big unless that big can defend the perimeter and is a legit 3pt shooter.
I'm very old school. I am in the mind that two bigs like Wemby and Sabonis can work because they play so differently. I think they could establish themselves very well on offense. Wemby likes to play the perimeter and Sabonis likes to be in the paint. Wemby is averaging like 10 threes a game. I don't think he needs to be paired with a shooting big. I also think Sabonis is so good as a distributor and knows where to be at all times on offense that he would fit like a glove with Wemby. The guy just knows how to utilize space.

Defensively I believe that he falls short. It's his arms. But with Wemby and Champ and hopefully Castle going forward, I think our defense will be pretty stout. But yeah in the playoffs they are going to pick n roll him to death. But that's kinda a matchup thing bc I don't see too many teams really taking advantage of it besides our neighbors in Dallas and the Grizz.

Now my dream is that Fox wants out. He'd probably go to the Lakers but I don't think they have the same assets we have. A Fox/Wemby pick n roll would be unstoppable. But looking at the potential targets for the Spurs and there aren't many game changers. So Fox or Sabonis might be as good as it gets. Though a Jimmy Butler pairing (for his work ethic alone) would have me intrigued. As a player he doesn't line up with us at all. But as a dawg mentality, and attitude, and toughness... well he's exactly what I want for the Spurs. Shame he makes 52 million next year :lol

[Seventyniner]

If the Spurs finish with a win total in the mid to high 30s this year, even if that means missing the play-in, not making the playoffs next year would be a disaster.

[LeBowen]

Defensively I believe that he falls short. It's his arms. But with Wemby and Champ and hopefully Castle going forward, I think our defense will be pretty stout. But yeah in the playoffs they are going to pick n roll him to death. But that's kinda a matchup thing bc I don't see too many teams really taking advantage of it besides our neighbors in Dallas and the Grizz.

Not worth it, imo.
You don't want to have someone who can't move on the perimeter in the lineup with Wemby because Wemby needs to be protecting the rim.

Obviously having Sabonis over Jeremy in the starting lineup would be an upgrade because he's a way better player, but I don't think PATFO are even considering going with another big.


Now my dream is that Fox wants out. He'd probably go to the Lakers but I don't think they have the same assets we have. A Fox/Wemby pick n roll would be unstoppable. But looking at the potential targets for the Spurs and there aren't many game changers. So Fox or Sabonis might be as good as it gets. Though a Jimmy Butler pairing (for his work ethic alone) would have me intrigued. As a player he doesn't line up with us at all. But as a dawg mentality, and attitude, and toughness... well he's exactly what I want for the Spurs. Shame he makes 52 million next year :lol

Kings would rather relocate than deal with the Lakers.
If Fox asks out, Spurs would be one of the few teams that has the assets and is a good fit.

I don't think we should be looking at players older than 32 unless they require no assets to acquire.

[scott]

its weird cause last year playing wemby alongside another center was bad.

I think we can all draw a pretty decent hypothesis of why on this one :lol

[spurraider21]

I think we can all draw a pretty decent hypothesis of why on this one :lol
what are you insinuating about Zach "Objectively Good" Collins?

[baseline bum]

Now my dream is that Fox wants out. He'd probably go to the Lakers but I don't think they have the same assets we have. A Fox/Wemby pick n roll would be unstoppable. But looking at the potential targets for the Spurs and there aren't many game changers. So Fox or Sabonis might be as good as it gets. Though a Jimmy Butler pairing (for his work ethic alone) would have me intrigued. As a player he doesn't line up with us at all. But as a dawg mentality, and attitude, and toughness... well he's exactly what I want for the Spurs. Shame he makes 52 million next year :lol

Would you do a Bridges package for Fox? I imagine he'd be extremely expensive with another year remaining on his deal after this one.

[LeBowen]

Would you do a Bridges package for Fox? I imagine he'd be extremely expensive with another year remaining on his deal after this one.

Fox is a tier above Bridges, but Bridges had two years left on his deal.
Fox will have only one. Nothing will happen before summer, obviously.
But if Kings continue treadmilling Fox will surely explore his options and there's only so much you can get for a player on expiring deal.
Devin and a couple more good FRPs would be fair.
Young player on a long, team-friendly deal and picks are the best possible outcome for them.

It will all come down to Devin's health and Fox's ambition. If he asks out, Spurs are easily his best option.

[tonight...you]

what are you insinuating about Zach "Objectively Good" Collins?
Does that make him Zach OG Collins?
Maybe OG Zollins?

[Mal]

I dont know this is the thread for bullshit trade ideas found on the internet, but I just saw Spurs - Bucks trade
Spurs:
Paul
Vassell
Cissoko
Sochan
2025, 2026, 2028 1st
2027 2nd

Bucks:

L:lolllard

[spurraider21]

thats a giannis package, not a lollard package :lol

[Bruno]

A possible trade deadline move for Spurs would be Chris Paul to Clippers for PJ Tucker and a 2nd round pick.

Paul is often saying how he miss living with his kids, who are living in LA. Spurs could do him a nice gesture by trading him there and it would allow Spurs FO to evaluate how the team is doing without him. What I don't know is whether or not Clippers are interested in adding him to their team.

[spurraider21]

A possible trade deadline move for Spurs would be Chris Paul to Clippers for PJ Tucker and a 2nd round pick.

Paul is often saying how he miss living with his kids, who are living in LA. Spurs could do him a nice gesture by trading him there and it would allow Spurs FO to evaluate how the team is doing without him. What I don't know is whether or not Clippers are interested in adding him to their team.
absolutely not. PJ Tucker a malcontent. a SRP from the clippers isnt worth it. Paul is invaluable here. if anything i'd explore re-signing him for another year.

[LeBowen]

A possible trade deadline move for Spurs would be Chris Paul to Clippers for PJ Tucker and a 2nd round pick.

Paul is often saying how he miss living with his kids, who are living in LA. Spurs could do him a nice gesture by trading him there and it would allow Spurs FO to evaluate how the team is doing without him. What I don't know is whether or not Clippers are interested in adding him to their team.

No way CP3 wants to play with Harden again.
Spurs also have 18 SRPs (and probably CHA, maybe CHI FRPs not conveying) in the next 6 drafts, I doubt PATFO cares about incoming SRPs anymore.

[Bruno]

absolutely not. PJ Tucker a malcontent. a SRP from the clippers isnt worth it. Paul is invaluable here. if anything i'd explore re-signing him for another year.

You don't to the trade for Tucker (he will be immediately waived) or for the SRP.

I'll do the trade for two reasons:
First, to be nice with Paul: let him finish his season/career on a playoff team and be more with his kids.
Second, Paul is a great help for the team but it's a temporary's one. At some point, Spurs will need to know whether they can keep playing at a decent level without him around. The last couple of months of this season is a good time to evaluate that. I would especially like to know if Castle can work as the main point guard.

[Mal]

You don't to the trade for Tucker (he will be immediately waived) or for the SRP.

I'll do the trade for two reasons:
First, to be nice with Paul: let him finish his season/career on a playoff team and be more with his kids.
Second, Paul is a great help for the team but it's a temporary's one. At some point, Spurs will need to know whether they can keep playing at a decent level without him around. The last couple of months of this season is a good time to evaluate that. I would especially like to know if Castle can work as the main point guard.

He will pull a hammy eventually, as he usually does

[Seventyniner]

A possible trade deadline move for Spurs would be Chris Paul to Clippers for PJ Tucker and a 2nd round pick.

Paul is often saying how he miss living with his kids, who are living in LA. Spurs could do him a nice gesture by trading him there and it would allow Spurs FO to evaluate how the team is doing without him. What I don't know is whether or not Clippers are interested in adding him to their team.

How about Paul and Zollins to the Lakers for D'Angelo Russell, Gabe Vincent, and a top 1 protected 2029 swap? With a plan to buy out D-Lo and just eat the extra year of Vincent a la Devonta' Graham.

If the Lakers get desperate and CP3 really wants to be there, it can make sense for everyone.

[twodeep]

How about Paul and Zollins to the Lakers for D'Angelo Russell, Gabe Vincent, and a top 1 protected 2029 swap? With a plan to buy out D-Lo and just eat the extra year of Vincent a la Devonta' Graham.

If the Lakers get desperate and CP3 really wants to be there, it can make sense for everyone. With Lebron quitting on them would they not just try to unload James

[Seventyniner]

With Lebron quitting on them would they not just try to unload James

This is the Lakers, and LeBron's career is nearly over. The Lakers have a tendency to make dumb win-now moves like trading for Russell Westbrook. While trading LeBron would make sense for them, I can definitely see pride being an issue.

The deal I proposed would be a bad one for them, but teams do make bad deals sometimes. I also like Bruno's idea of letting CP3 finish this season (and perhaps his career) in Los Angeles and making room at the starting PG spot for Castle.

[scott]

Doesn't LeBron also have a no trade clause? Unloading him would be quite difficult, for a lot of reasons

[The Truth #6]

To me it seems crazy to go out of our way to trade Chris Paul. He could easily get injured, or demand a trade near the trade deadline on his own. I think his presence on the team is invaluable. If we want to give Castle more of an opportunity, then just play Chris Paul less while still letting him mentor the rest of the team.

[scott]

CP3 seems generally satisfied here. Not sure why he'd demand a trade, and not sure why we'd be looking to trade him.

Paul has a +16.1 On/Off Differential this season (meaning the Spurs have a +16.1 better NETRTG with him on the court than with him off of it) with is 98th percentile in the league. By comparison, Wemby is only a +11.2 this season. (Zach is -6.3 and Keldon -16.1 :lol)

[scott]

Also... just to stir up a little shit... Devin's On/Off is -20.7, worst on the team and in the 1st percentile in the entire league. This equates to -37 expected wins. OUCH.

[LeBowen]

Also... just to stir up a little shit... Devin's On/Off is -20.7, worst on the and in the 1st percentile in the entire league. This equates to -37 expected wins. OUCH.

Figuring Devin's situation out has to be priority for this season.
His health is arguably the most important thing we need to deal with. If he can't stay healthy, he needs to go, no hard feelings.
If he can, then we need to see if he can function on a winning team. I personally think he'll greatly benefit from not having to create much, but he has to prove it.

He still has a lot of value around the league and his contract is just perfect for a trade.

[CGD]

I really wanted a Keldon for DeAndre Hunter swap, but Hunter had been playing too good of late. Shame.

[CGD]

Figuring Devin's situation out has to be priority for this season.
His health is arguably the most important thing we need to deal with. If he can't stay healthy, he needs to go, no hard feelings.
If he can, then we need to see if he can function on a winning team. I personally think he'll greatly benefit from not having to create much, but he has to prove it.

He still has a lot of value around the league and his contract is just perfect for a trade.

I think Devin is here to stay, or at least I don’t think they move on any time soon just because he’s injured. The more interesting thing to me is what they do with the Keldon contract.

[scott]

Figuring Devin's situation out has to be priority for this season.
His health is arguably the most important thing we need to deal with. If he can't stay healthy, he needs to go, no hard feelings.
If he can, then we need to see if he can function on a winning team. I personally think he'll greatly benefit from not having to create much, but he has to prove it.

He still has a lot of value around the league and his contract is just perfect for a trade.

I think the biggest problem is that by the time we figure out he'll need to go (which hopefully won't happen), it will be obvious to everyone else as well and his value will be diminished from where it currently is.

With that said, he's only played 9 games so my On/Off stat is just to stir up some shit. However, in those 9 games he has had a negative +/- in 8 of them (which for those who don't know, +/- and On/Off are not the same thing).

[twodeep]

The NBA trade season and rumor mill will probably kick up big time with the December 15th being tomorrow and a bunch of players become trade eligible.

The question becomes do the Spurs make a trade keldon + draft assets for a veteran that can help off the bench and try and make a push for the playoffs to get the core young players playoff experience and start the growth process of the young players.

I am hoping they make a move I like for the team to make it in this year to the playoffs

[DPG21920]

Wonder with SA back up center “issues” if we see them take a look at Paul Reed?

[scott]

Upgrading Keldon for Aaron Nesmith somehow is a deal I'd love to see happen.

[Bruno]

https://x.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1868028152171069524

Hawks trading Cody Zeller and a 2nd round pick to Detroit is my guess as the follow up trade Pistons will make to go over the salary floor.

[scott]

https://x.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1868028152171069524

Hawks trading Cody Zeller and a 2nd round pick to Detroit is my guess as the follow up trade Pistons will make to go over the salary floor.

Detroit absorbing salary as part of a bigger 3-team deal elsewhere perhaps......

[KingKev]

Schroder to GS

[baseline bum]

Detroit absorbing salary as part of a bigger 3-team deal elsewhere perhaps......

Send them Branham for one of those pizzas cooked in the automotive drip pans

[baseline bum]

Schroder to GS

Dude was fucking their tank up

[Mr. Body]

I don't understand why Schroeder bounces around so much. He's a good player.

[ginobilized]

I'd be into kicking the tires on Paul Reed if he's available.
He's always seemed like a Spurs type.

[ginobilized]

Wait a minute, Philly must be in the running to nab Reed now that Embiid is down.....again.

[timtonymanu]

Ugh good pick up for the Dubs. I hate it.

[Leetonidas]

Still funny to think that Schroeder turned town 4yrs/82 million from the Lakers and has bounced around on cheap deals every season since then :lol

[CGD]

I don't understand why Schroeder bounces around so much. He's a good player.

Me neither. Has to be a personality thing?

[quentin_compson]

Having a healthy Melton would have been quite a lot better for GS than having Schröder, in my opinion.

[mo7888]

So, Bobby Marks is proposing that we acquire Brandon Ingram. Proposed trade is KJ+Zollins+Chicago 1st for Ingram.

I like the price. I'm a little ambivalent on the player. Thoughts?

[Mr. Body]

So, Bobby Marks is proposing that we acquire Brandon Ingram. Proposed trade is KJ+Zollins+Chicago 1st for Ingram.

I like the price. I'm a little ambivalent on the player. Thoughts?

How many ways can I say no.

[exstatic]

So, Bobby Marks is proposing that we acquire Brandon Ingram. Proposed trade is KJ+Zollins+Chicago 1st for Ingram.

I like the price. I'm a little ambivalent on the player. Thoughts?

Nah. He’s a bigger DeRozan, midrange monster but overall inefficient,IMO. Whoever is left holding that contract loses out, because he won’t give any kind of discount to his Bird rights holder. It’ll be like Klay or PG last summer.

[Mr. Body]

I also don't think Brandon Ingram is an even remotely competitive player. This isn't a guy that worries about winning or losing games.

[CGD]

So, Bobby Marks is proposing that we acquire Brandon Ingram. Proposed trade is KJ+Zollins+Chicago 1st for Ingram.

I like the price. I'm a little ambivalent on the player. Thoughts?

If there were any indication that he would re-sign here at a fair deal, i'd be inclined to pull the trigger. The theoretical fit between him and Wemby would be interesting. Otherwise, as a rental, i think there is better value elsewhere for what we'd be sending out.

[scott]

So, Bobby Marks is proposing that we acquire Brandon Ingram. Proposed trade is KJ+Zollins+Chicago 1st for Ingram.

I like the price. I'm a little ambivalent on the player. Thoughts?

That would be a really nice price, even if you just view it as a salary dump of Keldon and Zollins and a rental of BI for a playoff run. Simply getting Keldon and Zollins off the team would be a major improvement.

However, don't love BI and definitely not looking to resign him. As CGD points out, there may be better rental options out there.

And... as many have pointed out, don't know that the Spurs are ready to do the hard (correct) thing in letting locker room favorite Keldon go.

[Seventyniner]

KJ + Zollins for Ingram wouldn't be so bad if the Spurs only had to add in a couple of SRPs. Ingram is an upgrade over KJ and Zollins is a negative impact player. The Spurs don't need to keep Ingram around past this season for that deal to be a win because it also clears a lot of 2025 cap space. But I wouldn't add any firsts into the deal.

[John B]

So, Bobby Marks is proposing that we acquire Brandon Ingram. Proposed trade is KJ+Zollins+Chicago 1st for Ingram.

I like the price. I'm a little ambivalent on the player. Thoughts?

While I like Sochan, I can’t see him on the floor with Castle together. Ingram is a better fit at PF/SF. I wouldn’t mind it at all. As a franchise player, Ingram is not but a 3rd/4th option?

CP3, Champ, Castle, Ingram, Wemby
Tre, Vassell, Sochan, Barnes, Bassey

That contends

[baseline bum]

KJ + Zollins for Ingram wouldn't be so bad if the Spurs only had to add in a couple of SRPs. Ingram is an upgrade over KJ and Zollins is a negative impact player. The Spurs don't need to keep Ingram around past this season for that deal to be a win because it also clears a lot of 2025 cap space. But I wouldn't add any firsts into the deal.

I'd give the Charlotte 'first'

[jjspur]

Zollins, Branham, and a 2026 2nd (since we have like five of them) for Vucevich. The bulls get away from Vuce, we get away from Zollins & Branham plus we open up a roster spot. Its a win win. The salaries match and the bulls just might be desperate enough to do this deal as the deadline approaches. If its not enough add another second rounder. The talent matching isn't the best but desperate times call for desperate measures.

[ismael-robert]

So, Bobby Marks is proposing that we acquire Brandon Ingram. Proposed trade is KJ+Zollins+Chicago 1st for Ingram.

I like the price. I'm a little ambivalent on the player. Thoughts?

How many ways can I say yes and unlike many here I love kj minus his height

[td4mvp2k]

no way the PATFO show interest in that loser

[Bruno]

https://x.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1868495861409562871

Pistons have decided to keep as much cap space as possible instead of doing a small trade for a $3M to $5M player that would have likely gave them a second round pick. We will see if they end up doing something significant with all that cap space.

Meanwhile, former Austin Spurs McCoy is getting some money because of new CBA rules on the salary floor.

[KingKev]

Ingram is going to be in for a rude awakening come free agency. He reportedly turned down a multi year extension that would have averaged close to 50m/yr. I bet he doesn’t see near that in free agency.

I’d actually give Keldon, Zollins and CHA first or maybe Chi pick for an audition to see how a capable scorer would mesh with Wemby and improve the team than go from there come contract negotiations. He could be a useful asset in a sign and trade come summer.

[Kevin]

Yeah that proposed deal for Ingram is so cheap you cant say no.

Keldon (neutral asset)
Zollins (negative asset)
Bulls pick has 50/50 chance at conveying because I suspect the Bulls will blow it up this summer by letting Ball walk and finally being able to move LaVine. Even if Ingram isn't a fit you at least get out of the Zollins deal a year early.

[KingKev]

Jimmy Butler reportedly turning down his 52m player option. He must know his body isnmt going to last and is trying to get one last long term deal. I could see someone offering him a 3yr 120m type deal this offseason.

[ambchang]

Ingram is going to be in for a rude awakening come free agency. He reportedly turned down a multi year extension that would have averaged close to 50m/yr. I bet he doesn’t see near that in free agency.

I’d actually give Keldon, Zollins and CHA first or maybe Chi pick for an audition to see how a capable scorer would mesh with Wemby and improve the team than go from there come contract negotiations. He could be a useful asset in a sign and trade come summer.

Yeah. I’d be shocked if he gets anything more than $35/yr. But then again never underestimate the number of stupid GMs in the league.

[poopbox]

So, Bobby Marks is proposing that we acquire Brandon Ingram. Proposed trade is KJ+Zollins+Chicago 1st for Ingram.

I like the price. I'm a little ambivalent on the player. Thoughts?

I'd do this trade so fast Ingram would be on a flight to SA before I hung up.

There isn't going to be a lot of demand for him as a player in the offseason ( teams with cap are either to good or to bad to give it to Ingram) so I would be fine with his extension.

Perfect fit for a future starting lineup of Castle , Devin, Wemby, and Sochan.

[mo7888]

Ingram is going to be in for a rude awakening come free agency. He reportedly turned down a multi year extension that would have averaged close to 50m/yr. I bet he doesn’t see near that in free agency.

I’d actually give Keldon, Zollins and CHA first or maybe Chi pick for an audition to see how a capable scorer would mesh with Wemby and improve the team than go from there come contract negotiations. He could be a useful asset in a sign and trade come summer.

That's kind of where I'm at. I'd give KJ, Zollins and the Cha pick for the chance to see how he fits and cap relief if he doesn't.

[LeBowen]

That's kind of where I'm at. I'd give KJ, Zollins and the Cha pick for the chance to see how he fits and cap relief if he doesn't.

Yeah, I'm not giving up that Chicago pick for a reclamation project on expiring contract, we'd effectively be giving up a first to get rid of Collins and Keldon.
I'd do like 4 SRPs. Branham/Wesley/Sidy if they're interested.

[Dverde]

It’d be great to get Derrick back just to have the nickname White Castle

[Seventyniner]

It’d be great to get Derrick back just to have the nickname White Castle

Would certainly be better than having Rudy Gay and Kevin Love.

[The Truth #6]

FO: "Trade for Ingram...uhh, we already have Harrison. We're good!"

[The Truth #6]

But seriously, trading for BI would more be about getting out of our contracts, and the FO isn't there yet. Also, BI doesn't fit with their vibe.

[ginobilized]

What could Vassell and KJ get us in return?
Adding in Collins/Branham Picks as needed?

Trey MurphyIII/Herb Jones?

D'Aaron Fox/Huerter?

Cam Johnson/DFS?

[Mal]

Jimmy Butler reportedly turning down his 52m player option. He must know his body isnmt going to last and is trying to get one last long term deal. I could see someone offering him a 3yr 120m type deal this offseason.

I doubt Pat Riley would do this. But other GMs maybe "interested" to prolong misery for their teams