Spurs trade ideas

[KobesAchilles]

Injuries / age would have me lower my price. 20 per is decent I’m thinking
I agree with your assessment on Klay. However, I believe GS will offer him somewhere around 3/75. We would have to pry him away with a better offer

[jjspur]

The Charlotte pick (don't think it ever conveys as a 1st round pick) for Quentin Grimes from Detroit. About equal value plus they have too many guards. At least he plays defense unlike some of our guards. Might as well make use of that crappy pick. Yeah I know it turns into two 2nd round picks, but by then we'll have several other 2nd rounders to try to flip. :spin

[exstatic]

I agree with your assessment on Klay. However, I believe GS will offer him somewhere around 3/75. We would have to pry him away with a better offer

The problem is, he hates coming off the bench,and I don’t see that changing.

[scott]

Man, I'd hate to have Klay for anything for more than 1 or 2 years, but I don't think you land him otherwise. I'd prefer to give a deal like that to Grayson Allen.

[Atl Spur]

I agree with your assessment on Klay. However, I believe GS will offer him somewhere around 3/75. We would have to pry him away with a better offer

Golden States cap situation is horrible, hopefully that plays into our favor.

[TD 21]

magic are flush with small guards

No, they're not and Russell isn't a small guard. Only Anthony would qualify as such.

Suggs is the lone guard entrenched going forward.

Fultz and probably Harris are goners in the off season.

There's a clear need for a volume 3-point shooting lead guard, who's comfortable enough splitting the ball handling duties with Banchero and Wagner.

[TheChillFactor]

Give Chicago their pick back for Lavine and Coby White. There is zero market for Lavine as we saw esrlier in the year, he knows Pop from the Olympics, and so what if hes overpaid?

the price to get Lavine’s salary of your books is Coby White and you can have your pick back. We get a point guard and a wing scorer who can get buckets whose contract will be expiring just as Wemby enters his prime.

[scott]

I'm actually a fan of a healthy Zach Lavine. However, a healthy Zach Lavine no longer exists. $136MM for 3 years of Zach Lavine in street clothes? It's not like its my money, but nah dawg.

[TheChillFactor]

I'm actually a fan of a healthy Zach Lavine. However, a healthy Zach Lavine no longer exists. $136MM for 3 years of Zach Lavine in street clothes? It's not like its my money, but nah dawg.

if lonzo still had 2 knees he would be perfect for Wemby

[Atl Spur]

Lavine + Bulls 2024 1st - Spurs
Zollins + Tre ( expiring )+ Devonte graham ( expiring )+ Both 2024 seconds + Bulls 2025 first & second + Hornets 1st - Bulls

Keep all the Hawks picks as well as our own.

Hmmmmm…..

[exstatic]

Hmmmmm…..

You’re worse than Multi bumping his own threads because no one else will. :lol

Zach Lavine is damaged goods that will never heal, making more than $40M per year.

[lebomb]

Melo Ball extended contract + Duren's middle league exception, Detroit 1st + Washington's 2 expiring trade contracts - Beal, upon releasing Devonte Graham + 2 non guaranteed 2nd rd draft picks for Haliburton :claw

[mo7888]

Hmmmmm…..

No

[TheChillFactor]

i have been against acquiring Trae Young because of his defense but think about it- if we get him and start winning, the Instagram Baller will go clinically INSANE lmaooooooo

[exstatic]

Melo Ball extended contract + Duren's middle league exception, Detroit 1st + Washington's 2 expiring trade contracts - Beal, upon releasing Devonte Graham + 2 non guaranteed 2nd rd draft picks for Haliburton :claw

Beal’s been in Phoenix all year, you ding dong. Indy’s also not doing anything short of 7 years worth of FRPs and swaps for Hali.

[Atl Spur]

You’re worse than Multi bumping his own threads because no one else will. :lol

Zach Lavine is damaged goods that will never heal, making more than $40M per year.

Some of you don’t follow along well and keep regurgitating variations of the same post; this board is entertainment lest we forget? Don’t bump anything I say, it’s all here to be ridiculed if need be. lol……right? I’ve missed on plenty of takes but I’ve been pretty close on others; it’s fun so let’s just keep it that way capisce?

[Atl Spur]

Beal’s been in Phoenix all year, you ding dong. Indy’s also not doing anything short of 7 years worth of FRPs and swaps for Hali.

How about you give us a hot take to stand on or an original insightful plan regarding this topic. Please know I’ve checked and balanced you for a while not saying anything because it wasn’t my pig nor my farm!

[baseline bum]

Klay can't defend anymore and he's not the automatic shooter he used to be after the ACL tear and Achilles tear back to back. No thanks.

[exstatic]

Klay can't defend anymore and he's not the automatic shooter he used to be after the ACL tear and Achilles tear back to back. No thanks.
He’d be a vast improvement over Champagnie at the right price, and would provide both veteran and championship experience.

[scott]

He’d be a vast improvement over Champagnie at the right price, and would provide both veteran and championship experience.

What's the right price though? Because my gut tells me it will take at least 3/60 as a starting place. I'd rather go after Grayson Allen with a deal like that.

[baseline bum]

He’d be a vast improvement over Champagnie at the right price, and would provide both veteran and championship experience.

4 year deal for washed up 34 year old won't be the right price

[TD 21]

To Hornets: Johnson . . . Bridges replacement and better roster balance.

To Timberwolves: Craptors or Bulls 1st, Bertans . . . salary relief, draft capital, volume 3-point shooting forward (can waive for $5M, then attempt to re-sign for minimum).

To Spurs: Reid, Micic . . . versatile frontcourt starter, stopgap backup PG (would attempt to re-route, along with Hornets 1st for Brogdon).

[Joseph Kony]

Zero chance the Wolves are looking to move Reid imo, he's probably the best backup big in the NBA and a big part of their success

[mo7888]

To Hornets: Johnson . . . Bridges replacement and better roster balance.

To Timberwolves: Craptors or Bulls 1st, Bertans . . . salary relief, draft capital, volume 3-point shooting forward (can waive for $5M, then attempt to re-sign for minimum).

To Spurs: Reid, Micic . . . versatile frontcourt starter, stopgap backup PG (would attempt to re-route, along with Hornets 1st for Brogdon).

I'd like that alot with the re-route for Brogdon...

[exstatic]

Zero chance the Wolves are looking to move Reid imo, he's probably the best backup big in the NBA and a big part of their success

Minnesota’s total cap for next season is $246M, and they’ve never won a playoff series with any of these players. They have to do something, because they’re $10M into the second apron. Naz is a player that they can trade into cap room, and actually receive something, not send assets out.

[TD 21]

Zero chance the Wolves are looking to move Reid imo, he's probably the best backup big in the NBA and a big part of their success

They have significant tax issues looming and Taylor (owner) has a history of being adverse to paying it, so it's either Towns or Reid.

You could argue the latter is a more economical version, but this is now a (pseudo) championship contender and you need star power for that.

He's also been uncommonly loyal to them and probably (salary, injury history) won't fetch enough to justify it.

[Joseph Kony]

They have significant tax issues looming and Taylor (owner) has a history of being adverse to paying it, so it's either Towns or Reid.

You could argue the latter is a more economical version, but this is now a (pseudo) championship contender and you need star power for that. He's also been uncommonly loyal to them.

Good point. Seems like KATs injury will hold him out of the playoffs so if they end up going on a deep run without him i wouldn't be surprised if ownership decided to ship towns out instead

[exstatic]

Good point. Seems like KATs injury will hold him out of the playoffs so if they end up going on a deep run without him i wouldn't be surprised if ownership decided to ship towns out instead

The problem with a contract that large is that pretty much only large market teams would be interested, and none of them have cap room so they would have to send back equal dollars which doesn’t solve your tax problem.

[LeBowen]

Good point. Seems like KATs injury will hold him out of the playoffs so if they end up going on a deep run without him i wouldn't be surprised if ownership decided to ship towns out instead

Cap for the next season is at $141M, right?
Even without KAT's ridiculous contract, they'd be just 4M under the cap for the next season...with 9 players on the roster.

And Reid will be on an expiring deal. They can decide to contend with him or get something back, as TD 21 said.
They probably need to get rid of both because Taylor isn't paying so much luxury tax for a team that can't really compete...unless they surprise us in the next few months.
Imo, Edwards/Gobert core duo is the way to go forward for them, Conley is also extended for a couple more years.
McDaniels new deal starts the next season and he's on Ant's timeline.

Anyhow, as I wrote a week or so ago, three team deals with the Nets make sense.
Spurs send a FRP and maybe some more smaller assets for Reid.
Wolves get Bridges, Cam Johnson and Cam Thomas, players that are a great fit nex to their core duo. (Maybe DFS instead of Cam Johnson, but you get the point.)
Nets get KAT and that FRP.

Spurs get a perfect PF next to Wemby for a fair price. I wouldn't even be opposed trading away two bad FRPs.
Wolves get replacement wings to surround Ant/Gobert and get rid of KAT's deal in the process. Reid can't be extended, got to cut their losses.
Nets get a hometown kid as a fake franchise player instead of disgruntled fake all-stars and get a FRP. They can't tank and Bridges won't get them anywhere. KAT would at least sell tickets, much like he did for TWolves all these years.

[TD 21]

Cap for the next season is at $141M, right?
Even without KAT's ridiculous contract, they'd be just 4M under the cap for the next season...with 9 players on the roster.

And Reid will be on an expiring deal. They can decide to contend with him or get something back, as TD 21 said.
They probably need to get rid of both because Taylor isn't paying so much luxury tax for a team that can't really compete...unless they surprise us in the next few months.
Imo, Edwards/Gobert core duo is the way to go forward for them, Conley is also extended for a couple more years.
McDaniels new deal starts the next season and he's on Ant's timeline.

Anyhow, as I wrote a week or so ago, three team deals with the Nets make sense.
Spurs send a FRP and maybe some more smaller assets for Reid.
Wolves get Bridges, Cam Johnson and Cam Thomas, players that are a great fit nex to their core duo. (Maybe DFS instead of Cam Johnson, but you get the point.)
Nets get KAT and that FRP.

Spurs get a perfect PF next to Wemby for a fair price. I wouldn't even be opposed trading away two bad FRPs.
Wolves get replacement wings to surround Ant/Gobert and get rid of KAT's deal in the process. Reid can't be extended, got to cut their losses.
Nets get a hometown kid as a fake franchise player instead of disgruntled fake all-stars and get a FRP. They can't tank and Bridges won't get them anywhere. KAT would at least sell tickets, much like he did for TWolves all these years.

Towns isn't selling tickets for the Nets in Knicks country, this would deplete what little depth they have and they wouldn't do Bridges straight up for him considering the difference in value of contract, durability and malleability.

On the contrary, the Nets think their market and Bridges (well liked by various elite players) will attract their next superstar/star which is why he's virtually off limits.

[LeBowen]

He's off limits until he asks for a trade and we know what happens when players ask for trades these days.
He already lost a lot of value over the season and is clearly unhappy, will turn 28 before the next season and wants to compete..
Imo, there's no way he's with the Nets when the next season starts.

[exstatic]

Towns isn't selling tickets for the Nets in Knicks country, this would deplete what little depth they have and they wouldn't do Bridges straight up for him considering the difference in value of contract, durability and malleability.

On the contrary, the Nets think their market and Bridges (well liked by various elite players) will attract their next superstar/star which is why he's virtually off limits.

His numbers dropped pretty sharply this year, and he’s not going to draw stars. Stars draw regular guys, not the other way around.

[MultiTroll]

Spurs get: Donovan Mitchell

Cavs get: Gregg Pop, KJ, Vassell, Branham, Tre Jones

[TD 21]

His numbers dropped pretty sharply this year, and he’s not going to draw stars. Stars draw regular guys, not the other way around.

Tell that to the Nets.

[exstatic]

Tell that to the Nets.

What I’ll tell the Nets is that they missed their window. They had offers of 3 FRPs last summer, but wanted four. They thought he was a guy to build around, but he’s not, and his value has dropped. They can ask whatever they want, but that doesn’t mean they’ll get it.

[Big Empty]

If we land torontos pick at 7, we draft Castle & Edey. Then we trade ATL their picks back along with another frp for Trey. Then we have scoring & a floor general in Trey, targuably the best defender with star potential in Castle, and another Center that can hold it down when Wemby rest. We’d be set. We gotta Houston Texans this offseason

[exstatic]

If we land torontos pick at 7, we draft Castle & Edey. Then we trade ATL their picks back along with another frp for Trey. Then we have scoring & a floor general in Trey, targuably the best defender with star potential in Castle, and another Center that can hold it down when Wemby rest. We’d be set. We gotta Houston Texans this offseason

Zach Edey is not getting picked in the top 10, and I’m an Edey guy. I just recognize that he’s a flawed archetype for today’s game, sort of a Boban, without the jump shot.

[scott]

1778159409434402845

This is kind of big. Suggests that Taylor views being a tax team as part of being a contender.

[mo7888]

1778159409434402845

This is kind of big. Suggests that Taylor views being a tax team as part of being a contender.

For me, I'm curious as to what Taylor thinks about moving Naz? It's a smaller move that would give some relief without moving their max guys...

[scott]

For me, I'm curious as to what Taylor thinks about moving Naz? It's a smaller move that would give some relief without moving their max guys...

We're all just folks speculating on the internet, but insofar as moving Naz makes the Wolves worse - the idea that Taylor killed the sale because the new owners would cut salary to stay under the tax would indicate that Taylor won't be looking to move Naz. But talk is cheap.

[Seventyniner]

The Wolves mortgaging their future for Gobert and then trying to dump their way under the tax would be such a Wolves thing to do.

[poopbox]

The Wolves mortgaging their future for Gobert and then trying to dump their way under the tax would be such a Wolves thing to do.

It almost insinuates that they didn't think trading for Rudy would make them that good, and now that they are that good, they are like "well...shit...we got to pay for this?"

[TD 21]

We're all just folks speculating on the internet, but insofar as moving Naz makes the Wolves worse - the idea that Taylor killed the sale because the new owners would cut salary to stay under the tax would indicate that Taylor won't be looking to move Naz. But talk is cheap.

Taylor has been notoriously cheap too and is probably just using this as an excuse for what appears to be shady behavior on his part.

The proposal from Lore and Rodriguez might have involved trading Towns instead of Reid. Either way, count on one being traded because Reid is a virtual expiring next season and has outgrown his role.

[Ariel]

Taylor has been notoriously cheap too and is probably just using this as an excuse for what appears to be shady behavior on his part.

The proposal from Lore and Rodriguez might have involved trading Towns instead of Reid. Either way, count on one being traded because Reid is a virtual expiring next season and has outgrown his role.
Yup. The timing is quite suspect, and it's more convenient to present himself as the savior of the team from some hypothetical future harm, rather than an greedy weasel looking to profit from someone else's work.

[LeBowen]

Celtics just extended Jrue.
Let's hope for them to fail so we can bring Derrick back because that will be their only move to make.

[spurraider21]

1778200739824976074

[spurraider21]

i love Jrue but good god he's going to turn 34 during this year's nba finals

[Dejounte]

i love Jrue but good god he's going to turn 34 during this year's nba finals

goes to show that this “We MuSt SuRRoUnD WeMby WiTH PlaYeRs wiThIn TWo YeArs oF hIs AGe bEcAusE of ThE tImeLine” is total nonsense. I can’t take anyone who subscribes to that idea seriously. A team can still strategically build around their franchise player without worrying about the ages of the players they want to pursue.

[baseline bum]

i love Jrue but good god he's going to turn 34 during this year's nba finals

New TV and streaming deal year after next should take a lot of the sting out of that price tag

[Ariel]

goes to show that this “We MuSt SuRRoUnD WeMby WiTH PlaYeRs wiThIn TWo YeArs oF hIs AGe bEcAusE of ThE tImeLine” is total nonsense. I can’t take anyone who subscribes to that idea seriously. A team can still strategically build around their franchise player without worrying about the ages of the players they want to pursue.
That's kind of disingenuous, I think the most prevalent idea is that you want your top players to be somewhat aligned age wise, so that you have a window of a few years where they're all in their prime, or close enough.

In Boston's case Jrue is 34, but the rest of Boston's core is around 26-29 (Tatum 26, Brown 27, Porzingis 28, White 29), so theoretically you can have at least 2 years with all of them playing at a high level -even if mildly regressing in Jrue's case-, and at least half a decade with 4 of them in their prime.

As for the Spurs, the only problem would be an all in trade for someone who's 10 years Wemby's senior, but if we're talking free agency, a cheap trade, or a complementary piece, I don't think anyone reasonable would have a problem with that, it's mostly the "lets pair Wemby with Lillard" ideas that get balked at.

[MultiTroll]

Spurs Get Donovan Mitchell

Cavs get Pop, 2024 lotto pick, KJ, Trey Jones expiring.

[onechance87]

would yall trade donovan mitchell for devin vassell straight up.

[MultiTroll]

would yall trade donovan mitchell for devin vassell straight up.
immediately.

[itzsoweezee]

Cap for the next season is at $141M, right?
Even without KAT's ridiculous contract, they'd be just 4M under the cap for the next season...with 9 players on the roster.

And Reid will be on an expiring deal. They can decide to contend with him or get something back, as TD 21 said.
They probably need to get rid of both because Taylor isn't paying so much luxury tax for a team that can't really compete...unless they surprise us in the next few months.
Imo, Edwards/Gobert core duo is the way to go forward for them, Conley is also extended for a couple more years.
McDaniels new deal starts the next season and he's on Ant's timeline.

Anyhow, as I wrote a week or so ago, three team deals with the Nets make sense.
Spurs send a FRP and maybe some more smaller assets for Reid.
Wolves get Bridges, Cam Johnson and Cam Thomas, players that are a great fit nex to their core duo. (Maybe DFS instead of Cam Johnson, but you get the point.)
Nets get KAT and that FRP.

Spurs get a perfect PF next to Wemby for a fair price. I wouldn't even be opposed trading away two bad FRPs.
Wolves get replacement wings to surround Ant/Gobert and get rid of KAT's deal in the process. Reid can't be extended, got to cut their losses.
Nets get a hometown kid as a fake franchise player instead of disgruntled fake all-stars and get a FRP. They can't tank and Bridges won't get them anywhere. KAT would at least sell tickets, much like he did for TWolves all these years.

Reid cannot play power forward. His advantage is as a stretch five. He’s not a great defender either. Reid would be an upgrade from Collins, but he’s not the ideal fit to play next to wemby.

[BatManu20]

1778176548656312607

[buttsR4rebounding]

1778176548656312607

That doesn’t mean no trades or upgrades. Getting Reid or Brogdan would still yield significant improvement and this would still be true.

[exstatic]

That doesn’t mean no trades or upgrades. Getting Reid or Brogdan would still yield significant improvement and this would still be true.

Or Herb Jones.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Or Herb Jones.

Would be a great pick up as well.

[spurraider21]

Why do people assume the Pelicans are looking to trade Herb Jones one year into a deal that already looks like a top bargain when he’s set to make an all defensive team and bumped his 3pt% to 40?

imo they’re more likely to trade Ingram

[exstatic]

Why do people assume the Pelicans are looking to trade Herb Jones one year into a deal that already looks like a top bargain when he’s set to make an all defensive team and bumped his 3pt% to 40?

imo they’re more likely to trade Ingram

Trading Ingram has its limitations. Few, if any teams have the ability to absorb his deal into cap room, so they’ll have to take back contracts, which doesn’t help their tax problem. It’s the KAT/Naz thing all over again.

[spurraider21]

Trading Ingram has its limitations. Few, if any teams have the ability to absorb his deal into cap room, so they’ll have to take back contracts, which doesn’t help their tax problem. It’s the KAT/Naz thing all over again.
You don’t salary dump your big bargain contracts

[Duncan2177]

That's weird, I thought Wemby wanted to win right away.

[Spurs Homer]

1778176548656312607


Goodbye wemby, was nice to know you!

[CGD]

1778176548656312607

Kinda makes sense. EVERYTHING is underwhelming about the 2024 offseason: shitty draft, shitty UFA crop, and even shitty grumpy stars that want out. Why wouldn’t they wait until 2025?

[exstatic]

You don’t salary dump your big bargain contracts

You do if it’s the only way to actually cut salary.

[scott]

Pelicans would just salary dump Nance, who will be on an expiring, if the have to.

But New Orleans actually has $19MM of tax space entering next offseason, so I’m not sure where this idea that they need to cut salary comes from.

[Ariel]

Kinda makes sense. EVERYTHING is underwhelming about the 2024 offseason: shitty draft, shitty UFA crop, and even shitty grumpy stars that want out. Why wouldn’t they wait until 2025?
Every draft has good players in it, even if not stars. If you come away with a couple future legit starters and instant contributors, that's a great draft in my book. Also, you can try to make a more sensible roster by pulling a couple smaller trades, it isn't all black or white. Having all your hopes centered on the 2025 draft sounds like a euphemism for hard tank, and if there was pressure to improve this year, I can only imagine what it;d be like midway through next season if the Spurs are still this bad. Wemby was off the hook because of his rookie status, but if the Spurs stink next season as well, he'll probably catch a lot more heat, that would put his individual awards into question (all star, all NBA, DPOY) and if that's the case he might feel wronged and that isn't a good idea when he's one year removed from extension eligibility.

[scott]

Also worth mentioning that Windhorst just might (most likely) be sharing what he thinks they will do, not some kind of inside information.

In all seriousness, the only part of the comment is the “focus on the 2025 draft” because as everyone else has pointed out, that implies another tank. NOT wanting another tank year seems like the only unifying thing on this message board, save for a few Tank Adventists.

But if you remove “focus on the 2025 draft”, it just sounds like typical PAFTO public statements that probably shouldn’t be read too much into.

On that note - if the Spurs wanted to run back the same team next year, it would be really easy to do so. Cedi is our only UFA. It’s almost like the FO built this team to be able to stay together, which would be sad if true :lol

[spurraider21]

You do if it’s the only way to actually cut salary.
its not tho

[spurraider21]

Pelicans would just salary dump Nance, who will be on an expiring, if the have to.

But New Orleans actually has $19MM of tax space entering next offseason, so I’m not sure where this idea that they need to cut salary comes from.
yeah, they're not desperate. and if they were, herb jones would be one of their untouchables. a team looking to get their books in order is not going to trade away one of their best players who is also cheap. they would trade ingram instead of extending him, imo, if it came to that

[fafo]

Focusing on the 2025 draft can also mean evaluating what they may have with the Hawks, Raptors, and Bulls picks. They can strike gold again, or there could be other stars who are better fits that become available for which those picks could be put to good use in a trade. Unless Trae Young gets traded elsewhere (which would make that Hawks pick even more appealing for the Spurs), they can always revisit that option next offseason or even the trade deadline. Admittedly I would still be concerned if they don't make any significant moves next offseason either, but it's not home run or bust right now. An offseason that includes trying to address areas of need with singles or doubles via draft/trade/FA, a summer of development for everyone, and going into next training camp with better chemistry should make for real improvements next season.

[R. DeMurre]

Herb Jones is beloved in New Orleans, on a bargain contract, and fits that team perfectly as a guy who loves to defend and isn't ever going to complain about not getting enough shots... I understand wanting him for the Spurs, but it just seems so unlikely.

[CGD]

Every draft has good players in it, even if not stars. If you come away with a couple future legit starters and instant contributors, that's a great draft in my book. Also, you can try to make a more sensible roster by pulling a couple smaller trades, it isn't all black or white. Having all your hopes centered on the 2025 draft sounds like a euphemism for hard tank, and if there was pressure to improve this year, I can only imagine what it;d be like midway through next season if the Spurs are still this bad. Wemby was off the hook because of his rookie status, but if the Spurs stink next season as well, he'll probably catch a lot more heat, that would put his individual awards into question (all star, all NBA, DPOY) and if that's the case he might feel wronged and that isn't a good idea when he's one year removed from extension eligibility.

Of course. Not saying they shouldn’t grab a good role player via draft or FA this season. I’m in the camp, though, that they shouldn’t blow their full wad this offseason.

[Dverde]

Spurs will need to bench Wemby to get another bottom 3 record next year.

[CGD]

Spurs will need to bench Wemby to get another bottom 3 record next year.

For next year, I think they'll be content if their natural pick is around #9-10 if it also means some good progression from the youngsters and a 35 win record. I expect ATL and CHI picks will be in that range too, which could mean a serious injection of talent coming in next summer.

[jesterbobman]

I think we'll see upgrades, but I don't think we're at the point where we should swing for the fences, as I don't think (for instance) a Trae / Wemby team is good enough to beat Denver now.
I'd be looking at teams that should be looking to tank / move in a different direction, have decent players that fit the archetypes we want, though may be cheaper in assets and dollars than the superstar option.

Options
Portland - tanking, will suck. Ant, Brogdon and Scoot are all PG's. Brogdon for a few seconds would be fine.
Washington - definitely tanking. I don't think Poole and Kuzma are worth their deals, only attractive piece is Deni, which would probably take a good 1st (e.g, Toronto pick).
Utah - Danny Ainge tanking for a white boy from Maine - better believe it. I think Lauri is comfortably their best piece, and they should be open to offers in the realm of 3 firsts (e.g, Keldon, Toronto, Chicago, Charlotte picks as a base). I think OKC would outbid, though the Lauri - Wemby fit makes sense to me. I'd also be interested in Sexton as a cheaper version of an effective on ball guard. Probably takes a first (not a great one, but a first, or something like the fake Charlotte pick plus).
Philly - Tobias Harris in FA, depending on how Paul George decides. If Tobias is a FA and Philly doesn't keep him, I think he's a good FA option as a big shooting forward. Not worth his current max, though at something like 3 years 75m would be fine.

Then, naturally, teams will flame out in the playoffs and decide they need to adjust (Cleveland could move on from their two smalls / two bigs construction, Pelicans could adjust the Ingram / Zion fit) or run into the upcoming tax issues and decide they need to get out from salary (the obvious Towns / Nat trade option).

E.g, say the Toronto pick conveys and they get Buzelis and Shepard, trade Keldon, the Charlotte pick + some second round picks for Sexton, sign Tobias.

Sexton / Vassell / Sochan / Tobias / Wemby
Tre / Sheppard(Malaki) / Champagnie / Buzelis / Zach
Blake, Malaki

Mostly kept all the assets, have a much better team (bit small, but better size than now) and you've mostly kept the powder dry in terms of draft assets.

[exstatic]

I think we'll see upgrades, but I don't think we're at the point where we should swing for the fences, as I don't think (for instance) a Trae / Wemby team is good enough to beat Denver now.
I'd be looking at teams that should be looking to tank / move in a different direction, have decent players that fit the archetypes we want, though may be cheaper in assets and dollars than the superstar option.

Options
Portland - tanking, will suck. Ant, Brogdon and Scoot are all PG's. Brogdon for a few seconds would be fine.
Washington - definitely tanking. I don't think Poole and Kuzma are worth their deals, only attractive piece is Deni, which would probably take a good 1st (e.g, Toronto pick).
Utah - Danny Ainge tanking for a white boy from Maine - better believe it. I think Lauri is comfortably their best piece, and they should be open to offers in the realm of 3 firsts (e.g, Keldon, Toronto, Chicago, Charlotte picks as a base). I think OKC would outbid, though the Lauri - Wemby fit makes sense to me. I'd also be interested in Sexton as a cheaper version of an effective on ball guard. Probably takes a first (not a great one, but a first, or something like the fake Charlotte pick plus).
Philly - Tobias Harris in FA, depending on how Paul George decides. If Tobias is a FA and Philly doesn't keep him, I think he's a good FA option as a big shooting forward. Not worth his current max, though at something like 3 years 75m would be fine.

Then, naturally, teams will flame out in the playoffs and decide they need to adjust (Cleveland could move on from their two smalls / two bigs construction, Pelicans could adjust the Ingram / Zion fit) or run into the upcoming tax issues and decide they need to get out from salary (the obvious Towns / Nat trade option).

E.g, say the Toronto pick conveys and they get Buzelis and Shepard, trade Keldon, the Charlotte pick + some second round picks for Sexton, sign Tobias.

Sexton / Vassell / Sochan / Tobias / Wemby
Tre / Sheppard(Malaki) / Champagnie / Buzelis / Zach
Blake, Malaki

Mostly kept all the assets, have a much better team (bit small, but better size than now) and you've mostly kept the powder dry in terms of draft assets.

He’s an ending contract next year. They’re not getting 3 firsts, although that will be what Ainge asks. He’ll likely play the year and leave if Utah is still building.

[Ariel]

He’s an ending contract next year. They’re not getting 3 firsts, although that will be what Ainge asks. He’ll likely play the year and leave if Utah is still building.
Those are not 3 real first round picks, it's 1 mid lottery, 1 bottom lottery and a fake first round pick. If Lauri agrees to extend and you are guaranteeing yourself an all star through his prime that fits perfectly with Wemby, the cost is well worth it and you have to do it.

[exstatic]

Those are not 3 real first round picks, it's 1 mid lottery, 1 bottom lottery and a fake first round pick. If Lauri agrees to extend and you are guaranteeing yourself an all star through his prime that fits perfectly with Wemby, the cost is well worth it and you have to do it.

The Toronto and Chicago picks are VERY real picks and have high chances of conveying. Your original post also didn’t mention an extension as a part of the trade, which nullifies my objections.

I think Lauri is kind of a fake/very borderline AS like Dejounte, guys where everything lines up perfectly for one year. Also, the bolded part of your text will be funny when we’re picking in the late 20s like during the Duncan era. A mid and late lottery pick? Yes, please.

[Ariel]

The Toronto and Chicago picks are VERY real picks and have high chances of conveying. Your original post also didn’t mention an extension as a part of the trade, which nullifies my objections.

I think Lauri is kind of a fake/very borderline AS like Dejounte, guys where everything lines up perfectly for one year. Also, the bolded part of your text will be funny when we’re picking in the late 20s like during the Duncan era. A mid and late lottery pick? Yes, please.
I'm not diminishing the value of those picks, they are very good, but everything should be put into context: the best the Toronto pick can ever be is 7 (mid lottery), and the best the Chicago pick can ever be is 9 (11 if it conveys in the first year). If you turned them into 1 all star, that's a top end outcome. Also, Lauri may be a borderline all star if you want, but one that fits perfectly with this team and whose playing style is likely to allow him a long prime, maybe 6/7 more years. Of course I'd rather pick him up in free agency, but if this was the price to ensure he's a Spur long term (think a Siakam like deal), that's a price I'm willing to meet. If not, then it's of course out of the question to shell out that kind of draft capital for a one year rental for a bottom team. My point is, these are opportunities worth exploring, most successful teams were opportunistic buyers and that yielded them great returns, like Boston with White, Porzingis, Jrue and Horford, or Denver with Gordon and KCP. Not everything has to come through the draft.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Danny Ainge isn't going to give up Markkanen for those three low reward picks. No way. We're talking Danny Ainge here, probably the most notoriously stubborn deal maker in the league. I think Markkanen is way more likely to sign a massive extension in Utah this summer than be traded. I realize that Utah is stuck a bit in purgatory, but I can't see them giving up a 26 year old WHITE budding all-star for anything more than a ridiculous godfather package.

[jesterbobman]

I mean, there's no chance Lauri signs an extension given his low starting base (unless the Spurs use cap space to up his number).

That does reduce his value as you can't lock him up with an extension, but being opportunistic buyers / looking for distressed assets / players who don't fit the timeline / fit / philiosophy of the other team is the thing I'm looking at.
I don't think Lauri is a top 10 player, but an all star / fringe all star who's a good fit as a offensive player with off ball juice works with Wemby (think of him as Michael Porter Junior in the Denver system, but he's better than MPJ).

With the extension not being possible, you can probably get it down to 1 1/2 picks of value. Any much lower than that and Utah would just keep him, they'd still be able to get a pick at the deadline from a team who hopes to resign him in FA and who can use him for a playoff push (similar to how Toronto had no chance of signing Poeltl to an extension given his MLE deal, but gave up a first to get him).

[jesterbobman]

Good point on Utah signing him to an extension, the lift and extend is probably their best use of space.

[scott]

If Utah doesn't think they can resign Lauri, they still might be able to get more value for him in a S&T than by just trading him on his expiring.

[exstatic]

If Utah doesn't think they can resign Lauri, they still might be able to get more value for him in a S&T than by just trading him on his expiring.

Possibly, but that requires a team where Lauri wants to go that also has enough cap room to sign him to a deal he finds palatable. We got really lucky with DeRozan. I’m not sure that deal happens if we’re not in cap rental mode. Not sure where Utah will be in a year. They looked like up and comers last season, and paper tigers this year.

[LeBowen]

Possibly, but that requires a team where Lauri wants to go that also has enough cap room to sign him to a deal he finds palatable. We got really lucky with DeRozan. I’m not sure that deal happens if we’re not in cap rental mode. Not sure where Utah will be in a year. They looked like up and comers last season, and paper tigers this year.

Knowing Ainge, he showcased Markkanen this season and he'll try to fleece someone in the summer.
Markkanen would be a great fit next to Wemby, but Ainge's entire existance revolves around trying to fleece naive GMs around the league.

They'll most likely bottom out and try to get Flagg in the upcoming draft.
Other than Keyonte George and Kessler, everyone should be up for trade.

[scott]

Possibly, but that requires a team where Lauri wants to go that also has enough cap room to sign him to a deal he finds palatable. We got really lucky with DeRozan. I’m not sure that deal happens if we’re not in cap rental mode. Not sure where Utah will be in a year. They looked like up and comers last season, and paper tigers this year.

Quite the opposite, the beauty of a S&T is it allows a FA to go to a team that doesn't have the cap room (otherwise, they would just sign the FA, there is no need for the S&T). It does require some other pieces to fall into place the right way (For the team to have matching salaries that the original team wants, or is happy to take on in a dump with proper compensation).

[Ariel]

I mean, there's no chance Lauri signs an extension given his low starting base (unless the Spurs use cap space to up his number).

That does reduce his value as you can't lock him up with an extension, but being opportunistic buyers / looking for distressed assets / players who don't fit the timeline / fit / philiosophy of the other team is the thing I'm looking at.
I don't think Lauri is a top 10 player, but an all star / fringe all star who's a good fit as a offensive player with off ball juice works with Wemby (think of him as Michael Porter Junior in the Denver system, but he's better than MPJ).

With the extension not being possible, you can probably get it down to 1 1/2 picks of value. Any much lower than that and Utah would just keep him, they'd still be able to get a pick at the deadline from a team who hopes to resign him in FA and who can use him for a playoff push (similar to how Toronto had no chance of signing Poeltl to an extension given his MLE deal, but gave up a first to get him).
Even if he doesn't sign an extension, you could be looking at a deadline deal with a *wink* *wink* arrangement for free agency, like I'm sure Indiana and Siakam or NY and OG agreed on. The key here is whether:
1) Lauri wants out of Utah
2) Lauri has a preference for the Spurs
If both conditions hold true, then his market shrinks a lot (like it happened with Siakam and OG in Toronto) and I think the basic framework laid here isn't unrealistic, maybe you can add another asset, but if Utah knows they're about to lose him for nothing, they would do well to take that deal. Danny Ainge is a ruthless negotiator from a position of strength, where he holds all the cards and forces the other party to bend over and take it with a smile on their face, but this may not be the case (hopefully). In any case, I've long regarded Lauri, Donovan Mitchell and Derrick White as the top free agent targets for the Spurs, this is another reason why it may be preferable to avoid a third hard tank, it's hard to sell a star into signing with you when you suck that badly. But if the Spurs make a couple small trades and signings first so that you position yourself where Houston is now, I'm pretty confident in some high profile player wanting to join Wemby in the quest for a ring.

[Bruno]

As pointed in another thread with Garland, Cavs and Hawks are the two teams that could provide a high quality PG for Spurs. It will depend on what they do in the playoffs, and if these players want to stay with them, but some of Garland, Mitchell, Young, Murray could be soon available. They are two teams to keep an eye on.

[BatManu20]

1779894508257202504

[Pauleta14]

^ The Nets would make a lot of sense when I think about it

As much as I'd take the chance I just don't see him Spurs/Pop compatible

[Spursfanfromafar]

As pointed in another thread with Garland, Cavs and Hawks are the two teams that could provide a high quality PG for Spurs. It will depend on what they do in the playoffs, and if these players want to stay with them, but some of Garland, Mitchell, Young, Murray could be soon available. They are two teams to keep an eye on.

I won't rule out Boston. They have extended Jrue Holiday and they will pay a hefty luxury tax (repeater) next season with the salaries ballooning due to the Brown extension (and the Tatum extension looming the next). There is a likelihood of Derrick White being traded. He will fulfill a good role as PG/SG and wont cost much allowing the Spurs to trade for an All-Star/ borderline All-Star wing. And White will be a great complement for Wemby. A trade for White shouldn't be ruled out.

[scott]

1779956041834545523

Pistons changing leadership. Wonder if this could lead to some opportunities to trade for some of their young talent if they want to go another direction.

[spurraider21]

maybe wright can go back?

[mo7888]

I know it's just 1/2 of 1 game, but Dallas looks awful. If this keeps up they will be heavily in the market this summer one way or the other.

[CGD]

1779956041834545523

Pistons changing leadership. Wonder if this could lead to some opportunities to trade for some of their young talent if they want to go another direction.

I know there is (correctly) a lot of fan interest in the PG situations with CLE and ATL, but DET is the team I’m watching the most (with an eye toward summer 2025). Their PG reckoning still feels like a year away, but I wonder what direction the new leadership will take as rookie extensions decisions on some of their young guys come up quickly.

You have to think DET at least has a conversation about trading Cade if the Spurs offer their 2024 FRP, 25ATL, and Keldon, no?

[Pauleta14]

I know there is (correctly) a lot of fan interest in the PG situations with CLE and ATL, but DET is the team I’m watching the most (with an eye toward summer 2025). Their PG reckoning still feels like a year away, but I wonder what direction the new leadership will take as rookie extensions decisions on some of their young guys come up quickly.

You have to think DET at least has a conversation about trading Cade if the Spurs offer their 2024 FRP, 25ATL, and Keldon, no?

I would love it but I don't see why they'd be open to trade who they see as their foundation to rebuild tbh

It would send them bck a few years back with another developement era

Who knows with the new boss but it would be really stupid of them imho

[CGD]

I would love it but I don't see why they'd be open to trade who they see as their foundation to rebuild tbh

It would send them bck a few years back with another developement era

Who knows with the new boss but it would be really stupid of them imho

I don’t disagree, however, one of the preconditions to it being even a possibility is their cleaning house. That’s why this news was interesting.

The other precondition, though, is an impasse in Cade extension talks this summer. Seems like a max isn’t a sure thing if you believe the Piston fan gossip sites given his injury history and inconsistency. But I think in the end the team caves, which probably means the real inflection point is when the Ivey extension talks start next year.

[scott]

With the incredible Phoenix flame out, and a dearth of picks until 2030... wonder if there is an outside shot at going after Book.

[LeBowen]

With the incredible Phoenix flame out, and a dearth of picks until 2030... wonder if there is an outside shot at going after Book.

They still have swaps every other year. Will be late first round, but better than nothing.
And luckily for their fans, they can't trade those away.

No way they trade Booker unless he asks out. Noone will take Beal and their asking price for KD will probably be too much considering his age.
I guess they'll try and get a solid point guard and give it another shots.
Nets own their picks, they're stuck in the same situation as Hawks. They can tank only if trade Booker to get their own picks back.

[Seventyniner]

With the incredible Phoenix flame out, and a dearth of picks until 2030... wonder if there is an outside shot at going after Book.

Mat Ishbia is one of the most egotistical and narcissistic people on the planet. He is going to take this season personally.

I think he will most likely go full sunk cost fallacy and ride this roster into the ground, which would force them to bottom out for several years in the late 2020s/early 2030s when the lack of draft picks and second apron penalties take their full toll.

If he decides heads must roll then nobody on the coaching staff or front office is safe, but I think he waits at least one more year before thinking that the roster is the problem. If and when he decides to blow it up, though, especially if the Suns flame out in the playoffs (or even miss them entirely), he might trade all of their big 3.

[buttsR4rebounding]

To me trading for Murray is the play. One of the reasons given for trading him was that he wasn't going to be on board signing a team friendly contract. Well, he did. I'd give up the 27 Hawks pick. His stats with Trae Young out were great. Also, if the time comes when Doncic decides he wants out of Dallas his contract goes one year past Doncic's and would be a great part of a package for him. Murray obviously creates more wins otherwise the Spurs wouldn't have traded him for the tank. Spurs still need to find their #2, but Murray makes a great #3 and Vassel and exceptional #4.

[mo7888]

With the incredible Phoenix flame out, and a dearth of picks until 2030... wonder if there is an outside shot at going after Book.

It looks like they have to trade somebody...firing Vogel won't be enough of a PR move..

[scott]

It looks like they have to trade somebody...firing Vogel won't be enough of a PR move..

Yeah, and I would assume that Book would be the LAST piece they'd be interested in trading away... but ideas have to start somewhere.

Unfortunately for the Suns, they really don't have any other valuable assets. Booker is obviously the most valuable. They might feel stuck with Durant because there is no way they recoup anywhere close to their investment. They don't have the picks necessary to try and move off of Beal. Allen and Nurk have value, but not enough to turn things around there.

[$pursDynasty]

I am more than happy to give the Sun's everything we got for da instagram baller plus another #1 for the Slim Reaper. KD might be happy to have the pressure off because with us it is Wemby and Pop's team.

[mo7888]

Yeah, and I would assume that Book would be the LAST piece they'd be interested in trading away... but ideas have to start somewhere.

Unfortunately for the Suns, they really don't have any other valuable assets. Booker is obviously the most valuable. They might feel stuck with Durant because there is no way they recoup anywhere close to their investment. They don't have the picks necessary to try and move off of Beal. Allen and Nurk have value, but not enough to turn things around there.

Beal has a no-trade clause too, so he'll be very hard to move. They may be stuck. I wouldn’t move Book unless I was blowing it all the way up and trading everybody for as many unprotected picks as i could get. So, that leaves either 1) Durant or 2) running it back a year older? I don't see any straight up trade for KD that really works for them. Maybe a 3 team deal where the 3rd team is moving a star-lite player or two and would rather take picks and step back for a season or two...

[Ef-man]

Beal has a no-trade clause too, so he'll be very hard to move. They may be stuck. I wouldn’t move Book unless I was blowing it all the way up and trading everybody for as many unprotected picks as i could get. So, that leaves either 1) Durant or 2) running it back a year older? I don't see any straight up trade for KD that really works for them. Maybe a 3 team deal where the 3rd team is moving a star-lite player or two and would rather take picks and step back for a season or two...

Only twice in his 12 year career has Beal played 82 games in the season so Suns screwed themselves if they thought they could depend on him.

[Rubberducky]

Patrick Williams sign and trade scenario

-Orlando is short a point guard and center that can score. Bulls are ready to move on from Nikola Vucevic, they don't want to pay him anymore and the fans are desperate to salary dump him. He's a fan favorite in Orlando and is even attending the playoff games. Bulls could dump him to Orlando for someone cheap or a 2nd rounder. Orlando adds offense to the center position and has the cap space to still go after their real prize Malik Monk in free agency.

-Bulls offered 4/64 to Patrick Williams but he declined, wants to get more. His max value is 3/60 or 4/80. Spurs could offer a sign and trade scenario for him. Spurs send Zach Collins and the 1st and 2nd round Bulls picks back to Chicago. Chicago essentially saves a couple million the next two years by swapping Nikola for Zach (they both have 2 years remaining), but they get back their picks. All of this for Patrick Williams who they were ready to not pay anyway. All they have to do from there is let Demar walk, shop Caruso to a contender for a pick at the deadline, and find a sucker for Zach Lavine (Lavine for Ben Simmons expiring swap?) and get a head start on tanking for Cooper Flagg with major cap space available for the 2025 offseason.

-Spurs lose a top10 protected pick but they not only dumped Zach Collins but get a solid young 3 and D SF that can start next to Wemby and Vassell. Champagnie goes to the bench. Salary for next season only goes up a few million since Zach's salary went out.

[TD 21]

No chance the Magic would want a past his prime Vucevic back, who'd have an adverse affect on their elite defense.

The type of offense they need is volume 3-point shooting combo guard (Simons, McCollum, Russell, Monk, etc.)

[montgod]

Beal has a no-trade clause too, so he'll be very hard to move. They may be stuck. I wouldn’t move Book unless I was blowing it all the way up and trading everybody for as many unprotected picks as i could get. So, that leaves either 1) Durant or 2) running it back a year older? I don't see any straight up trade for KD that really works for them. Maybe a 3 team deal where the 3rd team is moving a star-lite player or two and would rather take picks and step back for a season or two...

Yeah I think KD is the only option, especially after he opened the door with his comments regarding the offense, they have and should utilize that trade to possibly move other players (mainly Nurkic) that aren't producing to get them some flexibility. Haven't researched the how, but I could see SAC, ORL, CLE or OKC wanting to possibly get KD for a year or two to help them get over the playoff hump depending on their current playoff outcome. Only other option is for Suns to stay ignorant, listen to KD's words and think they just need a coach that puts more focus on him but the outcome would still be the same as this year.

[montgod]

Only twice in his 12 year career has Beal played 82 games in the season so Suns screwed themselves if they thought they could depend on him.

Agreed. I don't know how they couldn't see this end coming. Wiz only re-upped him cause no stars were coming and they needed a ticket chaser. It's still pretty crazy they gave up so much for him.... Wiz FO was screaming for joy no doubt to get all that for their miscue in re-signing Beal in the first place.

[DPG21920]

Ive been on the Patrick Williams bandwagon for a while now…definitely one I want to keep an eye on. Of course depends on the price and theres no doubt risk but hes the type of player I think Spurs should be looking at snagging if possible.

[Spurs Homer]

I am more than happy to give the Sun's everything we got for da instagram baller plus another #1 for the Slim Reaper. KD might be happy to have the pressure off because with us it is Wemby and Pop's team.

he is done

no way

[$pursDynasty]

he is done

no way

He is basically what he always was an elite scorer with no desire to be the leader of a team. That makes him perfect, an ultra elite player on the offensive end, an above average defender with no need to challenge Wemby or Pop for leadership of the team. He would also be the end of the game shot Taker that the team currently lacks.

[ambchang]

Praying the Pels will blow it up, and make Herb Jones and Trey Murphy available. I would give a protected first/young prospect + a whole bunch of 2nds for either one of them. Alas, it would make little sense for the Pels to trade either or both of these players if they were to blow up the team, Ingram and McCollum should go first before either of them.

[spurraider21]

Praying the Pels will blow it up, and make Herb Jones and Trey Murphy available. I would give a protected first/young prospect + a whole bunch of 2nds for either one of them. Alas, it would make little sense for the Pels to trade either or both of these players if they were to blow up the team, Ingram and McCollum should go first before either of them.
if the pels blow it up, they will be offloading JV, BI, and McCollum... not the guys you mentioned

[ambchang]

if the pels blow it up, they will be offloading JV, BI, and McCollum... not the guys you mentioned

Yeah, but a man can dream. if the Pels are looking for draft capital, the Spurs have quite a few. TM3 would look great next to Wemby.

[mo7888]

Based on what's out there (or more pointedly what's not out there), I kinda would like to see if we can get D'Lo at pg in FA and trade for KD or BI if one's made available.

[spurraider21]

Yeah, but a man can dream. if the Pels are looking for draft capital, the Spurs have quite a few. TM3 would look great next to Wemby.
i dont think they're looking to become non-competitive and tank. they still want a reasonable team around zion and thats going to include the younger, cheaper guys like Herb/Murph. they'll look to get draft assets from the other 3 guys i mentioned.

[mo7888]

Based on what's out there (or more pointedly what's not out there), I kinda would like to see if we can get D'Lo at pg in FA and trade for KD or BI if one's made available.

If D'Lo isn't an option I'd explore trading Collins + Tor pick to Portland for Brogdon + their GSW pick (possibly taking Filipowski there)

[LeBowen]

If D'Lo isn't an option I'd explore trading Collins + Tor pick to Portland for Brogdon + their GSW pick (possibly taking Filipowski there)

I don't think we would need to use a first rounder for Brogdon.
Believe it or not, Blazers are at $165M payroll for the next season, we'd just need to take Brogdon's salary off their hands. I'd say a couple of second rounders would do it.
But idk about Brogdon. He's had injuries every year and apparently isn't a good locker room presence. Not a veteran you'd want.

Ingram will surely be available and he's on an expiring deal. I don't want him though. The most melancholic player in the league.
I watched every game of their series and he put zero effort most of the time. When he tried, Dort destroyed him, was sad to watch, tbh.

Idk what would D'Lo ask for, but I'd take him for a couple of years. Good regular season point guard.

Regardless of the draft, we must get one legit 3-D wing. There are many names out there, we mentioned them plenty of times.

[Spurs9]

Wouldn't mind Colby White, doubt Bulls would trade him though, always been a fan of his.

[CGD]

Anyone thinking about draft day trade scenarios? I would imagine even the 5th pick would have some value to one of the playoff teams that ends up flaming out, while allowing them to save face with their fanbase. Or one of these various teams who have traded away all their picks this draft.

[mo7888]

I don't think we would need to use a first rounder for Brogdon.
Believe it or not, Blazers are at $165M payroll for the next season, we'd just need to take Brogdon's salary off their hands. I'd say a couple of second rounders would do it.
But idk about Brogdon. He's had injuries every year and apparently isn't a good locker room presence. Not a veteran you'd want.

Ingram will surely be available and he's on an expiring deal. I don't want him though. The most melancholic player in the league.
I watched every game of their series and he put zero effort most of the time. When he tried, Dort destroyed him, was sad to watch, tbh.

Idk what would D'Lo ask for, but I'd take him for a couple of years. Good regular season point guard.

Regardless of the draft, we must get one legit 3-D wing. There are many names out there, we mentioned them plenty of times.

The thought on the 1st for Brogdon while getting a 1st back 10 spots lower is that we get to move off of Collins.

[mo7888]

Anyone thinking about draft day trade scenarios? I would imagine even the 5th pick would have some value to one of the playoff teams that ends up flaming out, while allowing them to save face with their fanbase. Or one of these various teams who have traded away all their picks this draft.

I'd try and see if Phoenix would move Durant for our 1st and our 1st in 2025 + KJ + Zollins. They probably won't, but if Durant is wanting out then maybe..

[mo7888]

John B had the idea of acquiring DJ in a 3 team trade. Here's my fist shot at it off the cuff.

Atlanta- Jerami Grant + 3 2nds from SA

Portland- KJ, Zollins, Graham + Chi 1st + Spurs 2027 1st

Spurs- DJ + Brogdon + Kobe Bufkin

This lets Atl trade DJ for a player instead of picks which would have poor optics because of the price they paid for DJ. The 2nds they can sell as capital to use in future moves.

Portland gets off long-term money on an older player. Zollins gives depth if they move Ayton and they know him better than anyone.

Spurs get a starting PG and combo guard and a young piece to develop. We probably need to move Wesley or Branham, but that shouldn't be difficult.

So, what's your best 3 team trade here?

[LeBowen]

Portland gets off long-term money on an older player. Zollins gives depth if they move Ayton and they know him better than anyone.


The problem is that they need to get rid of short-term money. Right now they're at $165M for the next season.
Getting rid of Brogdon and Grant puts them at 113M.
Adding just Keldon and Zollins would be 36M, so they're back at 149M and well over the cap, even without Graham.

I don't want Brogdon, tbh. Always injured and supposedly a bad teammate.
I'd reduce the Spurs bit to just Keldon+Chicago+seconds as outgoing and DJ as incoming.
Then we get rid of Zollins somewhere else.

But then that looks like a steal for DJ.

[mo7888]

The problem is that they need to get rid of short-term money. Right at $165M for the next season.
Getting rid of Brogdon and Grant puts them at 113M.
Adding just Keldon and Zollins would be 36M, so they're back at 149M and well over the cap, even without Graham.

I don't want Brogdon, tbh. Always injured and supposedly a bad teammate.
I'd reduce the Spurs bit to just Keldon+Chicago+seconds as outgoing and DJ as incoming.
Then we get rid of Zollins somewhere else.

But then that looks like a steal for DJ.

I think it looks like a fair price for DJ... basically 2 firsts + KJ (who's worth a late 1st). He won't bring more than that. Atl just has to decide if Grant is worth that haul instead of taking it directly. As for Portland and the money issues, it may be hard for them to shed that money anyway by next year. This lowers their long-term capital outlay and gives them the opportunity to cut a little next year if they can buyout Graham and/or move Ayton in a lopsided deal.

[Payote75]

I am not a fan of as lot of these players we've been rebuilding the team the culture agagain etc. so I wouldn't want D-Lo at all and least of all KD. He puts up great numbers he a great player but lacks something greater. Might sound harsh but he could win on OKC at their peak joined the warriors where he did win but they were built to win and I feel won more because of the rest of the team not KD. Nets no suns no it's almost as if every team he's on he actually destroys. Just look at all the teams he's been on they fall apart he bolts. I'm not a fan ever of having him on my team. Won't deny he is a great player but he is missing and always has been missing something.

[TD 21]

I don't think Murray has to be a 3 team trade for the Spurs to get him, but as I've said, it does have to be a different structure than a lesser version of the trade they already made.

That probably means the Hawks wanting someone higher up in the lottery and the Spurs not being as enamored and willing to move down (which would obviously be easier if the Craptors 1st conveys).

Add that to Johnson and whatever other draft capital and it becomes an easier sell/spin for the Hawks.

[scott]

John B had the idea of acquiring DJ in a 3 team trade. Here's my fist shot at it off the cuff.

Atlanta- Jerami Grant + 3 2nds from SA

Portland- KJ, Zollins, Graham + Chi 1st + Spurs 2027 1st

Spurs- DJ + Brogdon + Kobe Bufkin

This lets Atl trade DJ for a player instead of picks which would have poor optics because of the price they paid for DJ. The 2nds they can sell as capital to use in future moves.

Portland gets off long-term money on an older player. Zollins gives depth if they move Ayton and they know him better than anyone.

Spurs get a starting PG and combo guard and a young piece to develop. We probably need to move Wesley or Branham, but that shouldn't be difficult.

So, what's your best 3 team trade here?

My initial reaction is that this overvalues Jerami Grant.

[mo7888]

My initial reaction is that this overvalues Jerami Grant.

That's quite possible.... I don't have a great feel for his value around the league. His numbers looked pretty good if you take a cursory look, but I haven't looked at his advanced numbers..

[jjspur]

It will be difficult to trade for a starter that won't cost a lot in salary, decent spurs players or picks or combination of all three. I also don't think that just drafting young players will get you very far. It will take time (even with Wemby our record didn't go up at all - but that was probably for other reasons). Instead in this so so draft, we should aim for replacing our second unit. We have a few decent players, but most could easily be replaced. Unless we get a top two pick we need to set our sights on a trade or two to replace some of our weaker players who sometimes start but really should be second or third teamers or just plain cut. Even if we draft just a role player, its probably better than what we currently have.

[Degoat]

Obviously I think the spurs will want flexibility, but I wonder what will be more important to the them, Draft capital or cap flexibility with building the team. I personally feel our draft capital is more important then keeping our cap space cleared up.

[montgod]

Obviously I think the spurs will want flexibility, but I wonder what will be more important to the them, Draft capital or cap flexibility with building the team. I personally feel our draft capital is more important then keeping our cap space cleared up.

Fully agree which is why this will be a very interesting draft/offseason for the Spurs and what they do. Don't want to repeat what I already posted on other threads, but I think unless they really love a prospect in this draft, they may trade out in some way to gain more draft capital for next year or current NBA player acquisitions

[MultiTroll]

Donny Mitchell
Lebron
Wemby
Siakim
Vassell learned how to pass. Or any guard with those 4 FFS.

:lobt: sniffin. Need some bench depth.

[JPB]

I don't want Brogdon, tbh. Always injured and supposedly a bad teammate.
I'd reduce the Spurs bit to just Keldon+Chicago+seconds as outgoing and DJ as incoming.
Then we get rid of Zollins somewhere else.

But then that looks like a steal for DJ.

After giving 3 FRPS and a swap for Murray, I guess indeed they don't pick up the phone for Keldon and CHI.

[Ignazzz]

Atlanta- Jerami Grant + 3 2nds from SA + Bufkin

Portland- KJ, Zollins, Graham + Chi 1st + Spurs 2027 1st + high 2rd spurs 2024

Spurs- DJ + Brogdon

[Mal]

Atlanta is not trading DJ or Young to Spurs for anything less than getting most of their pick back

[Degoat]

DJ on Twitter today, POP really the GREATEST!!! �� Can’t nobody come between our pond!!! (Black heart)

confirmed return lol

[Leetonidas]

What is with the obsession people have with wanting Brogdon :lol dude is made of glass. Most games he ever played in was 75 in his rookie campaign. He'll be 32 in December and has only played in 60 games once in the last 5 seasons.

Why people are always proposing trades for an aging injury prone combo guard is beyond me

[Dejounte]

DJ on Twitter today, POP really the GREATEST!!! �� Can’t nobody come between our pond!!! (Black heart)

confirmed return lol

prodigal son returns tbh

[spurraider21]

as referenced above

1789017199807549460

[scott]

Weird to me that DJ would follow that weird as Spurs Culture account

[spurraider21]

Prodigal Son Returns Tbh
Fify

[Dejounte]

DJ for the first third of Wemby’s career while grooming Reed Sheppard for the second third is the most ideal plan.

[objective]

What is with the obsession people have with wanting Brogdon :lol dude is made of glass. Most games he ever played in was 75 in his rookie campaign. He'll be 32 in December and has only played in 60 games once in the last 5 seasons.

Why people are always proposing trades for an aging injury prone combo guard is beyond me

He also from my memory had a bad locker room rep. Teammates didn't shed any tears for him as he left, and it's been a few teams.

[TD 21]

To Hawks: Spurs '24 1st, Hawks '26 1st (via Spurs), Johnson, Bertans, multiple Hornets 2nds

To Hornets: Hunter

To Spurs: Murray, Hawks '24 1st

Obviously, the viability would come down to the Hawks and Spurs swapping 1sts and would be dependent on the former targeting a specific player who won't be available at their pick and the Spurs not being enamored with those available at their own and being able to get their preferred option later.

If necessary, the Hornets 1st could also be utilized.

[mo7888]

To Hawks: Spurs '24 1st, Hawks '26 1st (via Spurs), Johnson, Bertans, multiple Hornets 2nds

To Hornets: Hunter

To Spurs: Murray, Hawks '24 1st

Obviously, the viability would come down to the Hawks and Spurs swapping 1sts and would be dependent on the former targeting a specific player who won't be available at their pick and the Spurs not being enamored with those available at their own and being able to get their preferred option later.

If necessary, the Hornets 1st could also be utilized.

On the 26 Hawks 1st, are you simply nullifying the swap or giving them our 1st?

[rascal]

Atlanta is not trading DJ or Young to Spurs for anything less than getting most of their pick back

Best to keep all those Atlanta picks. They could turn into the second superstar player the Spurs need they won't get in this draft or already have on the roster.

[rascal]

DJ for the first third of Wemby’s career while grooming Reed Sheppard for the second third is the most ideal plan.

Better to keep those Atlanta picks. Would rather have a shot at Ace Bailey next year. Reed Sheppard is only going to be a role player/ bench player. Spurs already have a team full of those type of players.

[TD 21]

On the 26 Hawks 1st, are you simply nullifying the swap or giving them our 1st?

The former.

[mo7888]

The former.

Then I'd do that deal if I'm the Spurs. I think Atlanta does as well. Charlotte is the wildcard there...

[TD 21]

Then I'd do that deal if I'm the Spurs. I think Atlanta does as well. Charlotte is the wildcard there...

The Hornets (in theory) do it to get their Bridges replacement, with their new regime avoiding the PR hit that would come with re-signing him to a big extension, for the low cost of essentially being willing to absorb Hunter's contract.

[LeBowen]

I'd avoid trading away any 2025 pick this summer, let that be the last big draft for this cycle.
By this time next year we'll know how much those 2026 and 2027 Hawks picks will be worth.

[scott]

The Hornets (in theory) do it to get their Bridges replacement, with their new regime avoiding the PR hit that would come with re-signing him to a big extension, for the low cost of essentially being willing to absorb Hunter's contract.

I wonder what Bridges market value will be with the PR hit dangling over him like the sword of damocles. If he resigns for 4/60, I don't know that CHA would take anymore of a PR hit than they already did by bringing him back in the first place. Would someone offer him more than that knowing the media scrutiny that will follow?

Edit: Bridges might become a Kelly Oubre-like character who just bounces from 2-year deal to 2-year deal around or just above the MLE.

[Ariel]

I wonder what Bridges market value will be with the PR hit dangling over him like the sword of damocles. If he resigns for 4/60, I don't know that CHA would take anymore of a PR hit than they already did by bringing him back in the first place. Would someone offer him more than that knowing the media scrutiny that will follow?
Maybe a veteran team desperate for cheap a talent upgrade like the Clippers, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Chicago. Detroit perhaps?

[scott]

Maybe a veteran team desperate for cheap a talent upgrade like the Clippers, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Chicago. Detroit perhaps?

Yes for $15MM/yr and below I'm sure he has lots of takers. I was more wondering if there is any market for him above that with the baggage. I kind of doubt it but who knows.

[TD 21]

I wonder what Bridges market value will be with the PR hit dangling over him like the sword of damocles. If he resigns for 4/60, I don't know that CHA would take anymore of a PR hit than they already did by bringing him back in the first place. Would someone offer him more than that knowing the media scrutiny that will follow?

Edit: Bridges might become a Kelly Oubre-like character who just bounces from 2-year deal to 2-year deal around or just above the MLE.

I don't have a sense for his market value either (though he used his veto power to block a trade to the Suns at the deadline because he'd have been bereft of his bird rights) and maybe they don't take more of a PR hit, maybe it's more like a continuous one, but the point remains.

[Ariel]

I don't have a sense for his market value either (though he used his veto power to block a trade to the Suns at the deadline because he'd have been bereft of his bird rights) and maybe they don't take more of a PR hit, maybe it's more like a continuous one, but the point remains.
I'm guessing the real value of Bird rights for Bridges lies in the ability to perform a S&T rather than staying in Charlotte.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I bet Charlotte signs him to a long term deal. Him and Miller were their best players last year. They have already taken the PR hit. It will be on a team-friendly deal and everyone will ignore the elephant in the room. And if they start winning fans will discuss how he has been rehabilitated.

[Ariel]

I bet Charlotte signs him to a long term deal. Him and Miller were their best players last year. They have already taken the PR hit. It will be on a team-friendly deal and everyone will ignore the elephant in the room. And if they start winning fans will discuss how he has been rehabilitated.
Charlotte changed ownership, GM and coach though. They might want to clean house. And I wouldn't be shocked if that included Lamelo as well.

[TDMVPDPOY]

how about ingram, his a fa, NO aint giving him the max apparently

[JPB]

3 team trades where the 3 teams move/get important/valuable players rarely happen. The bulk of the trade is usually between two teams, the third one being a facilitator.

[mystargtr34]

If it’s not the Spurs then I hope Charlotte gets the first pick, more chance of them being good and giving the Spurs their lottery protected pick next year.

[exstatic]

Atlanta is not trading DJ or Young to Spurs for anything less than getting most of their pick back

I’m wondering if we draw top 3 + pick 7 in the lottery this afternoon if they’d take that plus that Charlotte pick they foisted off on us for DJ. Those are two surefire top 7 picks in hand that can’t be tanked into seconds. Those, plus picks they may get from Trae might allow them to blow it up without getting their picks back.

[exstatic]

What is with the obsession people have with wanting Brogdon :lol dude is made of glass. Most games he ever played in was 75 in his rookie campaign. He'll be 32 in December and has only played in 60 games once in the last 5 seasons.

Why people are always proposing trades for an aging injury prone combo guard is beyond me

Stopgap to train up a drafted PG. I don’t think anyone views him as long term. BTW, he’s not a combo guard, he’s a point who can shoot, distribute, and defend.

[CGD]

Painting a picture:

DET is on suicide watch after landing the 5th pick two years in a row despite having back to back historically back seasons. Fans are pissed, management is in turmoil. The city, basically, is about to fall into Lake Erie.

As part of the draft process they fall in love with a player that they suspect the Spurs will take at 4 if he falls there. They call RC and propose the following:

DET: 4 & 8 (and filler)
SAS: Ivey & 5

Do you pull the trigger?

[mo7888]

Painting a picture:

DET is on suicide watch after landing the 5th pick two years in a row despite having back to back historically back seasons. Fans are pissed, management is in turmoil. The city, basically, is about to fall into Lake Erie.

As part of the draft process they fall in love with a player that they suspect the Spurs will take at 4 if he falls there. They call RC and propose the following:

DET: 4 & 8 (and filler)
SAS: Ivey & 5

Do you pull the trigger?

No

[scott]

I'm also not doing that deal, but if it were DET getting #4 and Keldon in exchange for #5 and Ivey, I'm listening.

[mo7888]

Pivoting for a second, I read an article yesterday that nola was going to take offers on Ingram and keep Herb and Trey.

1) what teams do you think will go after Ingram?
2) what will be bring to them with only 1 year left on the contract.
3) Are we interested?

[bevo]

Not sure if right place - but someone on Twitter, Eric Zhang?, posted about league sources surrounding a spurs day trade involving Keldon and potentially one of Sochan, Wesley or Branham


https://twitter.com/EricZhangNBA/status/1790244472921678283

[LeBowen]

Pivoting for a second, I read an article yesterday that nola was going to take offers on Ingram and keep Herb and Trey.

1) what teams do you think will go after Ingram?
2) what will be bring to them with only 1 year left on the contract.
3) Are we interested?

1) Kings could do it. Hawks make the most sense for both teams if he commits to an extension. DJ for Ingram. Cavs if Mitchell stays and they make a Garland-Ingram swap.
2) That's the question. It looks like they're trying to find another team with unbalanced roster.
3) He was always such a low effort player. Also often has injury issues. But if he could get back to his best level, he would be a solid fit. I'd offer Keldon+Collins, no FRPs.

[TD 21]

Pivoting for a second, I read an article yesterday that nola was going to take offers on Ingram and keep Herb and Trey.

1) what teams do you think will go after Ingram?
2) what will be bring to them with only 1 year left on the contract.
3) Are we interested?

Hawks (Pelicans were rumored interested in Murray at trade deadline; Hawks supposedly prefer to trade Young) and Cavaliers (if Mitchell stays, Garland) are the obvious ones.

Other middling types that could see the opportunity to get a pseudo star at a distressed price include the Nets, Bulls, Rockets, 76ers and Kings.

I don't see the Spurs having interest nor should they.

If the Pelicans can't turn him into a similar caliber lead guard, it could be low end starter, middling youth/draft capital.

[mo7888]

Hawks (Pelicans were rumored interested in Murray at trade deadline; Hawks supposedly prefer to trade Young) and Cavaliers (if Mitchell stays, Garland) are the obvious ones.

Other middling types that could see the opportunity to get a pseudo star at a distressed price include the Nets, Bulls, Rockets, 76ers and Kings.

I don't see the Spurs having interest nor should they.

If the Pelicans can't turn him into a similar caliber lead guard, it could be low end starter, middling youth/draft capital.

The reason i was wondering was because he kind of fits the profile of 2nd tier star in his prime that wants to play with Wemby.

[spurraider21]

To Hawks: Spurs '24 1st, Hawks '26 1st (via Spurs), Johnson, Bertans, multiple Hornets 2nds

To Hornets: Hunter

To Spurs: Murray, Hawks '24 1st

Obviously, the viability would come down to the Hawks and Spurs swapping 1sts and would be dependent on the former targeting a specific player who won't be available at their pick and the Spurs not being enamored with those available at their own and being able to get their preferred option later.

If necessary, the Hornets 1st could also be utilized.
i like this. we get dejounte and the #1 overall pick

[CGD]

i like this. we get dejounte and the #1 overall pick

Think this was before ATL won the draft

[Chinook]

Think this was before ATL won the draft

As a famous philosopher once said, "Assume he already knows that".

[MultiTroll]

Pop, #4 and #8 this year, KJ and ____ for Donny Mitchell.

Or Mobley.

[mo7888]

Are there any realistic players not named Trae that you'd be willing to move #4 + #8 for?

[scott]

Are there any realistic players not named Trae that you'd be willing to move #4 + #8 for?

Lauri if we could immediately increase his pa and extend him

[CGD]

Are there any realistic players not named Trae that you'd be willing to move #4 + #8 for?

Garland, if stuff goes sideways in CLE.

[mo7888]

Lauri if we could immediately increase his pa and extend him

I'd do Lauri.... probably Donovan Mitchell... Ingram (but I'd need more coming back)...

[mo7888]

Garland, if stuff goes sideways in CLE.

I think I'd pass on Garland..

[JR3]

Not sure if right place - but someone on Twitter, Eric Zhang?, posted about league sources surrounding a spurs day trade involving Keldon and potentially one of Sochan, Wesley or Branham


https://twitter.com/EricZhangNBA/status/1790244472921678283

saw this too. Was coming here to see what people were saying about it…

[DPG21920]

MaNu4Tres suggested Keldon + Branham + 4 + Cha 1st + atl 26 swap for Dejounte + pick 1. Thoughts?

Would you trade CHA pick + 4 to move up to 1 and get your favorite player for sure?

Is Keldon + Branham + 26 ATL swap for Dejounte a good/fair deal?

[baseline bum]

Lauri if we could immediately increase his pa and extend him

Can the Spurs use capspace to extend him to a market value extension after a trade? Otherwise would suck to get in a Dejounte situation where you can't offer a market value extension and have to wait to free agency.

[mo7888]

MaNu4Tres suggested Keldon + Branham + 4 + Cha 1st + atl 26 swap for Dejounte + pick 1. Thoughts?

Would you trade CHA pick + 4 to move up to 1 and get your favorite player for sure?

Is Keldon + Branham + 26 ATL swap for Dejounte a good/fair deal?

I wouldn't do the 1st DJ deal..

Yes, I'd give cha + 4 to move to 3 (if I'm reading that right)

That's a fair deal. That's not an endorsement though, just a statement that it's fair value.

[scott]

Can the Spurs use capspace to extend him to a market value extension after a trade? Otherwise would suck to get in a Dejounte situation where you can't offer a market value extension and have to wait to free agency.

Some of our resident capologists (I think it was Ariel (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=3526) or Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557)) said that Utah can do this (and then he would be eligible to trade on Dec 15), I'm not sure if it still applies if the Spurs traded for him but it would seem so?

4 + 8 + CHI plus either Collins or Keldon for Lauri (Collins or Keldon roughly equals Lauri's contract, so the Spurs preserve their $22MM of cap space to use to give Lauri a raise before extending him)?

Unfortunately Spotrac seems to have updated their website to put most useful information behind their paywall... which sucks because it is really an awesome website but not one I'm willing to pay for.

[Chinook]

I've made my opposition to a Mark trade apparent. For me, the reasons to not trade for him are just as apparent as those to not trade for Young or Mitchell. I'd want no part in this deal.

But to clarify, the Spurs wouldn't be able to renegotiate Mark as far as I know, because there's a six-month prohibition against renegotiating and extending. Typically, the NBA closes the loophole where teams can just do the actions in the opposite order. Mark's extension window is also extremely late because he didn't sign until August. This means the Jazz wouldn't be able to negotiate and extend him, wait six months and then trade him before the deadline.

It's not very likely at all that Mark is traded this year. MAYBE at the deadline he's traded as an expiring, but I wouldn't put it past Ainge to value S&T possibilities over whatever Lauri would get as a rental.

[scott]

I've made my opposition to a Mark trade apparent. For me, the reasons to not trade for him are just as apparent as those to not trade for Young or Mitchell. I'd want no part in this deal.

But to clarify, the Spurs wouldn't be able to renegotiate Mark as far as I know, because there's a six-month prohibition against renegotiating and extending. Typically, the NBA closes the loophole where teams can just do the actions in the opposite order. Mark's extension window is also extremely late because he didn't sign until August. This means the Jazz wouldn't be able to negotiate and extend him, wait six months and then trade him before the deadline.

It's not very likely at all that Mark is traded this year. MAYBE at the deadline he's traded as an expiring, but I wouldn't put it past Ainge to value S&T possibilities over whatever Lauri would get as a rental.

Thanks for the clarification on the renegotiate and extend potential. Looks like he signed his extension on Aug 28, 2021, which would mean if Utah renegotiates and extends then he won't even be eligible to trade until AFTER the trade deadline. So if Utah does this, it essentially takes him off the market until next off-season (and could be a sign that Utah values him as the core of their own rebuild, not as a trade piece)

In this case, then no - I wouldn't give up 4 and 8 for Lauri (but I otherwise would if the contract situation were more favorable to us).

[Seventyniner]

MaNu4Tres (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=5714) suggested Keldon + Branham + 4 + Cha 1st + atl 26 swap for Dejounte + pick 1. Thoughts?

I think Atlanta hangs up the phone immediately.

The CHA first is unlikely to convey as a first at all and Branham has basically zero value right now. The Hawks would be downgrading this year's pick from #1 to #4 and downgrading from Dejounte to Keldon, just to get back the 2026 swap.

For this to even sniff possibility you have to do probably at least two of: include the Hawks 2025 pick, their 2027 pick, and Vassell instead of Keldon.

[LeBowen]

Am I crazy to think that PATFO should try everything they can to get Cade?

Pistons are a dumpster fire, they don't have a new GM yet, Cade hasn't signed an extension and even if he does, they have no chance of moving from the bottom for at least two more seasons, if not three.
He'll only be a detriment to their tanking.

He's got the right mindeset, kept trying his best on that sorry ass team and dragged them to those few wins they had.
Fit wise he's almost an ideal partner for Wemby and he could fit in any lineup.

Out of all the potential star trades, he seems like the most logical target if he becomes available.

[TD 21]

I think I'd pass on Garland..

Same. Injury prone, lacks assertiveness at best/soft at worst, not all that efficient (doesn't shoot enough 3's or get to the line enough) and a physical liability defensively.

Might as well just pick Dillingham, who has at least a decent chance of being as good or better offensively.


MaNu4Tres (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=5714) suggested Keldon + Branham + 4 + Cha 1st + atl 26 swap for Dejounte + pick 1. Thoughts?

Would you trade CHA pick + 4 to move up to 1 and get your favorite player for sure?

Is Keldon + Branham + 26 ATL swap for Dejounte a good/fair deal?

You guys and your homer trades.

My best guess for a Murray to Spurs framework post lottery is . . .

Hawks receive: 8 (they were rumored interested in Grimes, so maybe Walter?), '26 Hawks 1st, Hornets 1st, Johnson

Spurs receive: Murray

If they Hawks prefer to significantly cut salary, then include the Hornets and offer either Johnson or Hunter for Bertans and low level youth/draft capital or failing that maybe just Graham instead of Johnson.

[scott]

Am I crazy to think that PATFO should try everything they can to get Cade?

Pistons are a dumpster fire, they don't have a new GM yet, Cade hasn't signed an extension and even if he does, they have no chance of moving from the bottom for at least two more seasons, if not three.
He'll only be a detriment to their tanking.

He's got the right mindeset, kept trying his best on that sorry ass team and dragged them to those few wins they had.
Fit wise he's almost an ideal partner for Wemby and he could fit in any lineup.

Out of all the potential star trades, he seems like the most logical target if he becomes available.

Definitely interested. What do you think it would take?

[LeBowen]

Definitely interested. What do you think it would take?

I doubt they'd be interested in any of our players.
Keldon is already too old for a fresh rebuild, Branham and Wesley are worthless and they've got Ausar so I don't think they'd be interested in Jeremy, another non-shooting forward.
Unless there's a third team involved for Keldon, they'd want picks. And I'd rather ship Collins and trade Keldon ourselves than have Collins on the roster.

I'd say Chicago '25, Hornets '25 (this one won't convey, so whatever), #4 Spurs '24 and two more down the road.
Probably one Spurs/Hawks '25 and one Spurs/Hawks '27. Maybe some more SRPs if they're into that.

Fake Hornets FRP is for them to take Collins, then three good FRPs and a risky Chicago one.
And Spurs would still have at least one pick every year.

Seems like a lot, but he's a point guard who hasn't even turned 23 yet and already averaged 7.5 assists on a horrible team. 23ppg on 45/36/87 splits.
He improved his shooting a lot and he can be a positive defender in the right system. Not good enough to be point of attack, but good enough to not ever get hunted and to have good team defense.

[offset formation]

I doubt they'd be interested in any of our players.
Keldon is already too old for a fresh rebuild, Branham and Wesley are worthless and they've got Ausar so I don't think they'd be interested in Jeremy, another non-shooting forward.
Unless there's a third team involved for Keldon, they'd want picks. And I'd rather ship Collins and trade Keldon ourselves than have Collins on the roster.

I'd say Chicago '25, Hornets '25 (this one won't convey, so whatever), #4 Spurs '24 and two more down the road.
Probably one Spurs/Hawks '25 and one Spurs/Hawks '27. Maybe some more SRPs if they're into that.

Fake Hornets FRP is for them to take Collins, then three good FRPs and a risky Chicago one.
And Spurs would still have at least one pick every year.

Seems like a lot, but he's a point guard who hasn't even turned 23 yet and already averaged 7.5 assists on a horrible team. 23ppg on 45/36/87 splits.
He improved his shooting a lot and he can be a positive defender in the right system. Not good enough to be point of attack, but good enough to not ever get hunted and to have good team defense.

Heavy price to pay for someone that won't be "the point of attack" but I concur with your conclusion. Plus he's a native Texan and might not feel the need to run off when he can. Solid option tbh.

[LeBowen]

Heavy price to pay for someone that won't be "the point of attack" but I concur with your conclusion. Plus he's a native Texan and might not feel the need to run off when he can. Solid option tbh.

My bad, when I said point of attack, I meant point of attack defender.
He's definitely a point guard (forward?) on offense.

He was a #1 pick after all, since most people in here don't want anything to do with players under 6'4-6'5, how many 6'6 all-star point guards are going to ever be available?

Mind you, this would only be possible if he asks out.

[offset formation]

I saw something on X the other day where some NBA guy (Eric Zhang) says Keldon and one of Sochan, Branham, or Wesley will be moved on a draft day trade

[scott]

That Eric Zhang guy, as someone pointed out, only has like 40 followers on Twitter. So he's either the most low key insider ever, or just some random account not worth paying too much attention to.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I saw something on X the other day where some NBA guy (Eric Zhang) says Keldon and one of Sochan, Branham, or Wesley will be moved on a draft day trade

He has 63 followers. Probably not a really good source.

[DPG21920]

Same. Injury prone, lacks assertiveness at best/soft at worst, not all that efficient (doesn't shoot enough 3's or get to the line enough) and a physical liability defensively.

Might as well just pick Dillingham, who has at least a decent chance of being as good or better offensively.



You guys and your homer trades.

My best guess for a Murray to Spurs framework post lottery is . . .

Hawks receive: 8 (they were rumored interested in Grimes, so maybe Walter?), '26 Hawks 1st, Hornets 1st, Johnson

Spurs receive: Murray

If they Hawks prefer to significantly cut salary, then include the Hornets and offer either Johnson or Hunter for Bertans and low level youth/draft capital or failing that maybe just Graham instead of Johnson.

Maybe. I dont think moving back 3 spots in this draft (from 1 to 4) warrants much. CHA pick + maybe some 2nds should seemingly be fair value.

Then Keldon + Branham (he has value but not much) + Control of their 26 draft again for Murray actually seems pretty fair. Getting control of their own destiny in 26 is no small thing, Keldon is a good young player on a good contract that can be used or traded for more

Would ATL do it? Not sure, but I don’t think Murray has crazy value either and ATL getting control of their own draft back with the position they are in (possible blow it up territory if this season doesnt work) seems pretty damn good.

[RC_Drunkford]

I've seen someone on twitter say the Spurs will trade Wemby and he has more followers than Eric Zhang. I hope it's not true...

[scott]

I think it's easy to come up with a reasonable value for the Spurs to swap 1 and 4 with Atlanta... but I'm not sure why the Spurs would want to. There isn't really any one player at risk of being plucked from them at 1-3 that isn't easy to move on from. Hopefully for Atlanta's sake they fall in love with Sarr, because they're going to find it hard to move down if they don't.

[TD 21]

Maybe. I dont think moving back 3 spots in this draft (from 1 to 4) warrants much. CHA pick + maybe some 2nds should seemingly be fair value.

Then Keldon + Branham (he has value but not much) + Control of their 26 draft again for Murray actually seems pretty fair. Getting control of their own destiny in 26 is no small thing, Keldon is a good young player on a good contract that can be used or traded for more

Would ATL do it? Not sure, but I don’t think Murray has crazy value either and ATL getting control of their own draft back with the position they are in (possible blow it up territory if this season doesnt work) seems pretty damn good.

Of course it does. No matter the draft, there's still a certain level of prestige that comes with the 1st overall pick from a marketing perspective and a lot of the POBO/GM job is essentially being salesmen to their various constituencies (ownership, who in their case is said to be meddlesome and run the team, Snyder who's said to have a say, fans, media).

Sarr, while seemingly unlikely to be a star, is also a good fit for them, clearly more so than the potential options at 4.

I'd guess Johnson's value is neutral and Branham's is nil.

They supposedly prefer to retain Murray and with the Spurs owning their next 3 drafts, tanking is probably off the table, so if they trade the former instead of Young, it'll probably be for a pseudo star like Ingram, so they can at least maintain and potentially fit better.

[RC_Drunkford]

its not.

you don't know that. He has 83 followers on twitter. 83!!!

[DPG21920]

Of course it does. No matter the draft, there's still a certain level of prestige that comes with the 1st overall pick from a marketing perspective and a lot of the POBO/GM job is essentially being salesmen to their various constituencies (ownership, who in their case is said to be meddlesome and run the team, Snyder who's said to have a say, fans, media).

Sarr, while seemingly unlikely to be a star, is also a good fit for them, clearly more so than the potential options at 4.

I'd guess Johnson's value is neutral and Branham's is nil.

They supposedly prefer to retain Murray and with the Spurs owning their next 3 drafts, tanking is probably off the table, so if they trade the former instead of Young, it'll probably be for a pseudo star like Ingram, so they can at least maintain and potentially fit better.

Keldons value is not neutral. That’s ridiculous

[LeBowen]

Then Keldon + Branham (he has value but not much) + Control of their 26 draft again for Murray actually seems pretty fair. Getting control of their own destiny in 26 is no small thing, Keldon is a good young player on a good contract that can be used or traded for more

They'd never accept that just because it would be too embarrassing for them as a franchise.
Just think about it, they gave up two FRPs and a swap for a very good player. He even improved with them, signed a team-friendly extension that's great value in today's market, he's turning 28 and is about to enter his prime...and you think they'd accept not getting either of those picks back?

They won't pick up the phone without getting at least one '25 or '27 FRP back.

Imo, if Spurs don't think Dillingham/Castle are good enough, they should just go for two wings in the draft.
Then either get D'Lo in free agency or get DJ back. Assuming that my pipe dream Cade isn't available.

Or they can even have rookie come off the bench if they get a point guard and include Tre in a package for DJ.

Keldon, Tre, '26 swap return and one of Spurs/Chicago/Hawks '25 would be a fair return.

[TD 21]

Keldons value is not neutral. That’s ridiculous

He's an undersized wing/forward, who offers little in the way of self creation for himself or others, nor is he a 3 and D type.

That's basically a highly paid 7th man, which "catch-all" metrics support.

[DPG21920]

He's an undersized wing/forward, who offers little in the way of self creation for himself or others, nor is he a 3 and D type.

That's basically a highly paid 7th man, which "catch-all" metrics support.

Keldon would easily net a top 10 pick in this draft in a trade.

[TD 21]

Keldon would easily net a top 10 pick in this draft in a trade.

:lmao Take off the rose colored glasses.

[LeBowen]

Keldon would easily net a top 10 pick in this draft in a trade.

Then you should call Memphis, they're shopping their #9 pick.

[TD 21]

Then you should call Memphis, they're shopping their #9 pick.

Looming tax issues and they need an inexpensive center.

[LeBowen]

Looming tax issues and they need an inexpensive center.

It was a joke, I don't think Keldon is worth more than a late FRP.

[DPG21920]

:lmao Take off the rose colored glasses.

Ok

[Robz4000]

you don't know that. He has 83 followers on twitter. 83!!!

I only believe it if tspence tweets it tbh.

[MultiTroll]

you don't know that. He has 83 followers on twitter. 83!!!
Since when does more followers mean higher quality of takes?

Steven A Smith
Skip Bayless

on and on.

[Splits]

I only believe it if tspence tweets it tbh.

:lol damn I remember that guy, good times

[Splits]

I only believe it if tspence tweets it tbh.

this is.... strange...

https://i.ibb.co/SNrY4WL/image.png

[scott]

Since when does more followers mean higher quality of takes?

Steven A Smith
Skip Bayless

on and on.

It's not just a take... it's a guy who at the time had 42 followers (he's up to over 200 now!) claiming that league sources are confirming to him some kind of deal in the works.

1790244472921678283

I will give the guy credit for one thing... he knows how to bait Spurs fans into giving him a twitter follow

[scott]

Some of his other bangers:

1777533512339374572

[offset formation]

He has 63 followers. Probably not a really good source.

To be fair (because I'm seeing the shade RC_Drunkford (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=53010), scott, et al), a friend copied me on the post knowing I was a Spursfan. Jesus this board is not for the meek.

I've no idea how many followers he has. I got booted off Xitter a couple years ago for telling Greg Abbott to go fuck himself. All my buddy told me was some NBA guy that predicted the Dejounte trade before Woj and Shams said a big trade was going to go down. BTW, if it goes down I'll make sure to return the shade.

[offset formation]

It's not just a take... it's a guy who at the time had 42 followers (he's up to over 200 now!) claiming that league sources are confirming to him some kind of deal in the works.

1790244472921678283

I will give the guy credit for one thing... he knows how to bait Spurs fans into giving him a twitter follow

Yes, this xitter grab is precisely the one I'm referencing. Thanks for tracking it down since I can't

[scott]

To be fair (because I'm seeing the shade RC_Drunkford (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=53010), scott (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=150), et al), a friend copied me on the post knowing I was a Spursfan. Jesus this board is not for the meek.

I've no idea how many followers he has. I got booted off Xitter a couple years ago for telling Greg Abbott to go fuck himself. All my buddy told me was some NBA guy that predicted the Dejounte trade before Woj and Shams said a big trade was going to go down. BTW, if it goes down I'll make sure to return the shade.

No shade was intended to be directed towards you (unless you are Eric Zhang). Just explaining why I wouldn't put much stock in it.

But if he turns out to be right... well, then he deserves a lot more followers.

Also, thank you for your service in getting booted off Twitter. more people should tell Abbott to go fuck himself.

[Twisted_Dawg]

Same. Injury prone, lacks assertiveness at best/soft at worst, not all that efficient (doesn't shoot enough 3's or get to the line enough) and a physical liability defensively.

Might as well just pick Dillingham, who has at least a decent chance of being as good or better offensively.



You guys and your homer trades.

My best guess for a Murray to Spurs framework post lottery is . . .

Hawks receive: 8 (they were rumored interested in Grimes, so maybe Walter?), '26 Hawks 1st, Hornets 1st, Johnson

Spurs receive: Murray

If they Hawks prefer to significantly cut salary, then include the Hornets and offer either Johnson or Hunter for Bertans and low level youth/draft capital or failing that maybe just Graham instead of Johnson.

Why would the Spurs give up two, possibly three, number 1 picks for Murrary, when reportedly the Hawks couldn't get two number 1's for Murrary at the last trade deadline?

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/status/1790934263371567371

[TD 21]

Why would the Spurs give up two, possibly three, number 1 picks for Murrary, when reportedly the Hawks couldn't get two number 1's for Murrary at the last trade deadline?

It's really two and I'm not sure the Hawks couldn't get it at the deadline. Maybe they couldn't get "good" one(s) or just knew there was no rush and that the teams interested would both have more to offer (Lakers picks) and be more likely to offer it after their season ended in disappointment.

[CGD]

https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/status/1790934263371567371

Now this is fascinating

[bevo]

No shade was intended to be directed towards you (unless you are Eric Zhang). Just explaining why I wouldn't put much stock in it.

But if he turns out to be right... well, then he deserves a lot more followers.

Also, thank you for your service in getting booted off Twitter. more people should tell Abbott to go fuck himself.


There were some other tweets that have been since deleted that outlined both the ATL picks and pick swap going back to ATL plus this years 1st round pick with 4 or 8 going to ATL for Young and 1st , if I remember correctly

[NASpurs]

What's Garland's value? What do you give up?

[Gandalf]

Now this is fascinating

There was a rumor I saw somewhere that Donovan Mitchell didn’t want to re-sign with the Cavs. If this is true (Garland not wanting to be on the same team), maybe it precipitates a Mitchell trade request. If possible, I’d much rather have Donovan than Trae Young or Murray.

[Gandalf]

This writer thinks Donovan’s done in Cleveland.

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3513959/series-over-donovan-mitchell-is-out-tonight-and-people-are-saying-his-time-in-cleveland-is-probably-done-too

[objective]

Big NO on Garland

Just a worse Trae Young but on the same big salary

Same undersized 6-1, high turnover player but without the elite lob passing or occasional huge playoff outburst.

Same drawbacks as Trae with none of the supposed positives

[CGD]

What's Garland's value? What do you give up?

You have to think it’s at its lowest right now:

— Poor end to the season after jaw injury
— big money
— if it’s a Mitchell condition to staying, no incentive for teams to give big offer

Bottom line: great opportunity for Spurs to buy a distressed asset at below value

[CGD]

Big NO on Garland

Just a worse Trae Young but on the same big salary

Same undersized 6-1, high turnover player but without the elite lob passing or occasional huge playoff outburst.

Same drawbacks as Trae with none of the supposed positives

Trae and Garland couldn’t be more different.

[CGD]

This writer thinks Donovan’s done in Cleveland.

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3513959/series-over-donovan-mitchell-is-out-tonight-and-people-are-saying-his-time-in-cleveland-is-probably-done-too

Yeah, I think he’s gone too, which is why I don’t think the Garland thing is viable.

While I don’t think the Knicks makes any sense, I bet the Lakers, Heat or the Nets would be highly interested

[exstatic]

I doubt they'd be interested in any of our players.
Keldon is already too old for a fresh rebuild, Branham and Wesley are worthless and they've got Ausar so I don't think they'd be interested in Jeremy, another non-shooting forward.
Unless there's a third team involved for Keldon, they'd want picks. And I'd rather ship Collins and trade Keldon ourselves than have Collins on the roster.

I'd say Chicago '25, Hornets '25 (this one won't convey, so whatever), #4 Spurs '24 and two more down the road.
Probably one Spurs/Hawks '25 and one Spurs/Hawks '27. Maybe some more SRPs if they're into that.

Fake Hornets FRP is for them to take Collins, then three good FRPs and a risky Chicago one.
And Spurs would still have at least one pick every year.

Seems like a lot, but he's a point guard who hasn't even turned 23 yet and already averaged 7.5 assists on a horrible team. 23ppg on 45/36/87 splits.
He improved his shooting a lot and he can be a positive defender in the right system. Not good enough to be point of attack, but good enough to not ever get hunted and to have good team defense.

That’s more than Phoenix sent out for KD.

[LeBowen]

That’s more than Phoenix sent out for KD.

Chicago is top10 protected.
Hornets most likely won't convey and it's a compensation for taking Collins.
#4 Spurs is a great pick in a bad draft.
And then two more down the road would also be good picks, but not in top10 unless Hawks crumble.

We're talking about a 23 year old all-star level, 6'6 point guard. He's easily the best point guard target for us in the entire league if we talk playstyle and positional fit.
Assuming Luka and SGA never become available, that is.

KD was 34 at the time of the trade, cost 4 FRPs, 3 more swaps and two good players.
Bridges was easily worth 3 FRPs at the time and Cam Johnson was probably also worth a solid first rounder.
Nets rejected 4 FRPs for Bridges from Memphis before the season started. Should've taken it, but still.
And they'll get 2 FRPs and a good player for him this summer, imo.

[exstatic]

To be fair (because I'm seeing the shade RC_Drunkford (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=53010), scott, et al), a friend copied me on the post knowing I was a Spursfan. Jesus this board is not for the meek.

I've no idea how many followers he has. I got booted off Xitter a couple years ago for telling Greg Abbott to go fuck himself. All my buddy told me was some NBA guy that predicted the Dejounte trade before Woj and Shams said a big trade was going to go down. BTW, if it goes down I'll make sure to return the shade.


No shade was intended to be directed towards you (unless you are Eric Zhang). Just explaining why I wouldn't put much stock in it.

But if he turns out to be right... well, then he deserves a lot more followers.

Also, thank you for your service in getting booted off Twitter. more people should tell Abbott to go fuck himself.

I got one of those political texts saying Abbott was going to be in my town fundraising for some candidate, and I responded “Oh, is Greg taking a break from drowning immigrants in the Rio Grande?”

[Degoat]

I really like Darius Garland personally, but with the way he played in these playoffs you can’t give up what it would take to get him unless Cavs sell cheap

[CGD]

Well, now the scuttlebutt is that Mitchell with resign?

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5497268/2024/05/15/cavaliers-donovan-mitchell-darius-garland-jb-bickerstaff-future/

Probably told CLE:

1. Fire coach
2. Move Garland

[CGD]

I really like Darius Garland personally, but with the way he played in these playoffs you can’t give up what it would take to get him unless Cavs sell cheap

I think that’s the point, Mitchell has torpedoes Garlands value. This is the lowest it will be.

[CGD]

I think my Garland offer tops out at:

Keldon, Malaki, #8, and CHA pick

[montgod]

Yeah, I think he’s gone too, which is why I don’t think the Garland thing is viable.

While I don’t think the Knicks makes any sense, I bet the Lakers, Heat or the Nets would be highly interested

I'm reading in several places that Mitchell is leaning towards re-signing in neighborhood of 200mil. Also, looks like if that happens, Garland wants out.
https://x.com/ClutchPoints/status/1791092141059662010

[CGD]

I'm reading in several places that Mitchell is leaning towards re-signing in neighborhood of 200mil. Also, looks like if that happens, Garland wants out.
https://x.com/ClutchPoints/status/1791092141059662010

Yeah, I think it’d be silly for spurs not to kick the tires on that.

[montgod]

Chicago is top10 protected.
Hornets most likely won't convey and it's a compensation for taking Collins.
#4 Spurs is a great pick in a bad draft.
And then two more down the road would also be good picks, but not in top10 unless Hawks crumble.

We're talking about a 23 year old all-star level, 6'6 point guard. He's easily the best point guard target for us in the entire league if we talk playstyle and positional fit.
Assuming Luka and SGA never become available, that is.

KD was 34 at the time of the trade, cost 4 FRPs, 3 more swaps and two good players.
Bridges was easily worth 3 FRPs at the time and Cam Johnson was probably also worth a solid first rounder.
Nets rejected 4 FRPs for Bridges from Memphis before the season started. Should've taken it, but still.
And they'll get 2 FRPs and a good player for him this summer, imo.

I like Cade, but not sure about his defensive mindset esp being in Detroit for so long. I think a more realistic option to go after might be Ayo from CHI who was compared to Jrue Holiday when he finally got minutes. Wouldn't cost as much as Cade but it depends on what CHI is going to do in their efforts to stay mid.

[John B]

I like Mitchell but I don’t know if he’ll play Robin to 20 yrs old Wemby. I don’t want issues who’s the face of the franchise, and that’s Wemby.

I think they need a veteran PG who will steady the boat much like Jrue Holiday or Mike Conley, and let the young players thrive and not steal minutes from them. Don’t get me wrong, Mitchell is a stud, but does he come here feeling he’s the number 1 option?

[MultiTroll]

I like Mitchell but I don’t know if he’ll play Robin to 20 yrs old Wemby. I don’t want issues who’s the face of the franchise, and that’s Wemby
Career high assists.
Even tho his role was to be the #1 scorer on Cavs, the games i have seen he has had no problem sharing the rock. Including this years playoff wins.

[Seventyniner]

Garland is intriguing. If the Cavs don't demand a huge return he could be worth it. A career 38.4% 3 point shooter on good volume who doesn't insist on being the #1 option is just what the doctor ordered on offense. But if not being the #1 wasn't so bad why would he want out? His turnover rate is horrible and his pass creation quality doesn't come close to Young's.

It would be a big commitment. Garland is due $36.7/39.4/42.1/44.9M over the next 4 years. That's 26% of next year's cap, probably declining slightly as a % as the cap rises. The good news is that only one of those years would overlap with Wemby's rookie extension. Given Vassell's extension too, it would mostly define the Spurs salary situation for the next 4 years: they would operate over the cap and would either have to make moves to avoid the tax or be willing to pay it, depending on what the ownership wants.

[CGD]

Garland is intriguing. If the Cavs don't demand a huge return he could be worth it. A career 38.4% 3 point shooter on good volume who doesn't insist on being the #1 option is just what the doctor ordered on offense. But if not being the #1 wasn't so bad why would he want out? His turnover rate is horrible and his pass creation quality doesn't come close to Young's.

It would be a big commitment. Garland is due $36.7/39.4/42.1/44.9M over the next 4 years. That's 26% of next year's cap, probably declining slightly as a % as the cap rises. The good news is that only one of those years would overlap with Wemby's rookie extension. Given Vassell's extension too, it would mostly define the Spurs salary situation for the next 4 years: they would operate over the cap and would either have to make moves to avoid the tax or be willing to pay it, depending on what the ownership wants.

My sentiments exactly. What has my interest peeked is that key factors are conspiring together right now to depress Garland’s value:

- As a condition to Mitchell reupping it sounds like his camp will want Garland gone. This is bad for CLE’s leverage.

- Garland had a down year after his jaw injury

- the spurs don’t need Garland: they have PG options between the draft, CLE situation, the ATL situation, and potentially DET’s Cade/Ivey dynamic

- the spurs have the assets to bully other potential rivals who may be interested, including two picks in THIS draft.

- the money isn’t excellent, but it comes before Vic’s big momey at least. It would also likely mean Kelton’s long term money goes out so that helps.

As I noted above, my best offer tops out at Keldon, Malaki, 8, and CHA pick.