Spurs trade ideas

[scott]

I already figured it out last night on NBA2k. We win the 2026 Championship after Maxey and Flagg (with the Hawks pick!) join our team. Just sit back and enjoy the ride. (We beat the Magic in 7, for those wondering, and Jalen Green goes to Orlando)

[Ariel]

Trade for Jordan Hawkins while he may still be cheap to trade for.

Spurs need to add shooting.

Keldon for Jordan Hawkins and Herb Jones
Sure. I suggest holding the Pelicans' GM at gunpoint while making that offer would go a long way into them accepting it.

[baseline bum]

I already figured it out last night on NBA2k. We win the 2026 Championship after Maxey and Flagg (with the Hawks pick!) join our team. Just sit back and enjoy the ride. (We beat the Magic in 7, for those wondering, and Jalen Green goes to Orlando)

Did we draft Boozer or Dybantsa with the Atlanta 2026 swap?

[scott]

Did we draft Boozer or Dybantsa with the Atlanta 2026 swap?

That pick got traded away to land Maxey

[CGD]

And Doncic will still be in his prime in 2030. A lot can happen in four years in Boston. They could keep being bridesmaids and Tatum forces his way out to try to win elsewhere. They could have injuries in 2027-28. Racist Boston fan could come shit in Tatum's bed and he asks out. etc :lol

I definitely think Tatum will want to get the hell out of Boston once he locks in this next extension. Jaylen Brown also seems not long for that teams

That swap will be interesting, but that said, I think the Dallas one will be more appealing in 2030. The Mavs are such a poorly managed team

[SpursBills]

I definitely think Tatum will want to get the hell out of Boston once he locks in this next extension. Jaylen Brown also seems not long for that teams

That swap will be interesting, but that said, I think the Dallas one will be more appealing in 2030. The Mavs are such a poorly managed team

Agree. Brad Stevens is one of the 3-5 best GMs in the league I think. So long as he's there I don't see Boston being bad. Dallas's front office is more hit and miss, and they've painted themselves in a bit of a corner with bad trades and missed signings. A lot of whether Luka stays or not really banks on Lively and whether he can turn into a stud in the future.

[mo7888]

With everyone talking about giving Atlanta their picks back for Trae, what would you think about sending them to Brooklyn instead?

Brooklyn- KJ, Zach, filler (Malaki/Wesley) + cha 1st + our 25 1st, Atlanta 25 1st, + Atlanta 27 1st

Spurs- CJ + MB

I know, I know... they've already turned down 4 firsts for MB, but IF that happened I think it was highly protected firsts. In this case we'd be sending 3 totally unprotected firsts.

Is Brooklyn ready to reboot with a superb package or keep two 27 year olds and try to build around them? Those guys need a star that creates gravity and Brooklyn is going to have a hard time finding that with the meager assets they have to offer. This could be just what the doctor ordered for them and for CJ + MB + Wemby.

[RC_Drunkford]

why would you trade 3 unprotected picks for Cam Johnson and Bridges? That's a star player package and neither one of them is an All-Star

[The Truth #6]

An argument for trading some (NOT all) our assets to get a youngish star player is that if we do it now we still will have possible late lottery picks of our own while the team gels. My bigger point is that we don't know how yet to rebuild with a team full of all young players. It's inherently difficult and you have only so many minutes to dole out. Historically the team has been great at developing mid to late FRPs, likely because they had a core to build around and not a pressing need to play draft picks too much, too soon.

This situation is different than the past. But I'm suggesting the team rely on it's historical strengths and minimize what they are not as good at, from what I can tell.

[Atl Spur]

Sign and trade p williams+ charlotte pick for Keldon

[mo7888]

why would you trade 3 unprotected picks for Cam Johnson and Bridges? That's a star player package and neither one of them is an All-Star

Mainly for 2 reasons, 1) they both compliment Wembanyama and 2) that's a better return than Trae Young who everyone wants to give that package and more for.

[mo7888]

Sign and trade p williams+ charlotte pick for Keldon

I'd like that..

[Spursfanfromafar]

With everyone talking about giving Atlanta their picks back for Trae, what would you think about sending them to Brooklyn instead?

Brooklyn- KJ, Zach, filler (Malaki/Wesley) + cha 1st + our 25 1st, Atlanta 25 1st, + Atlanta 27 1st

Spurs- CJ + MB

I know, I know... they've already turned down 4 firsts for MB, but IF that happened I think it was highly protected firsts. In this case we'd be sending 3 totally unprotected firsts.

Is Brooklyn ready to reboot with a superb package or keep two 27 year olds and try to build around them? Those guys need a star that creates gravity and Brooklyn is going to have a hard time finding that with the meager assets they have to offer. This could be just what the doctor ordered for them and for CJ + MB + Wemby.

Makes sense. Although I would prefer Bridges alone. Also Sean Marks will play a lot of hardball.. maybe we can settle for Bridges alone then and not Johnson or get Finney-Smith instead of Johnson.

[LeBowen]

As I said yesterday, my dream scenario would be Trae, Naz Reid and one of Trey Murphy or Herb Jones.
Draft BPA and get one or two more veterans for the bench.

[onechance87]

think we should go after tyus jones...Guy has been playing great lately.Passing pg first who can knock down the three.
Not sure if tre jones being here will effect his decision coming here tho.

[RC_Drunkford]

Mainly for 2 reasons, 1) they both compliment Wembanyama and 2) that's a better return than Trae Young who everyone wants to give that package and more for.

I highly doubt that these 2 would have a bigger impact than Trae Young. Besides, even if we trade for Young, we can still get one of those guys down the line.

[mo7888]

I highly doubt that these 2 would have a bigger impact than Trae Young. Besides, even if we trade for Young, we can still get one of those guys down the line.

I don't see Trae adding more to this team than both those guys, together however Trae + either one of them would be very interesting. I'm not sure what that trade would look like though..

[onechance87]

As I said yesterday, my dream scenario would be Trae, Naz Reid and one of Trey Murphy or Herb Jones.
Draft BPA and get one or two more veterans for the bench.

yup...if we get the raptors pick,Would trade it to get one of herb or murphy and or reid.

[RC_Drunkford]

As I said yesterday, my dream scenario would be Trae, Naz Reid and one of Trey Murphy or Herb Jones.
Draft BPA and get one or two more veterans for the bench.

that's best case scenario tbh. If they get them and nail those 2 picks in the upcoming draft, you have your 8-man rotation set. And that's with everybody being 25 or under.

[JPB]

Mainly for 2 reasons, 1) they both compliment Wembanyama and 2) that's a better return than Trae Young who everyone wants to give that package and more for.

One great player > 2 good players.

[mo7888]

One great player > 2 good players.

But there's the rub... I don't think Trae is 'great'. I think he's good...even real good.... and potentially a good fit (depending on other moves)... but I'm not calling a guy who has his team as a bottom 10 team, 'great'...

[scott]

But there's the rub... I don't think Trae is 'great'. I think he's good...even real good.... and potentially a good fit (depending on other moves)... but I'm not calling a guy who has his team as a bottom 10 team, 'great'...

Luka's team was in the Bottom 10 last year...

Not say Trae is or isn't great, but I do think there are extenuating circumstances beyond the individual player and the team's record that need to be considered.

[Atl Spur]

But there's the rub... I don't think Trae is 'great'. I think he's good...even real good.... and potentially a good fit (depending on other moves)... but I'm not calling a guy who has his team as a bottom 10 team, 'great'...

A lot of variables dictate where a team resides…. The player can be great on a terrible team.

[Atl Spur]

Signing Sadiq Bey would be a good fit in my opinion.

[mo7888]

Luka's team was in the Bottom 10 last year...

Not say Trae is or isn't great, but I do think there are extenuating circumstances beyond the individual player and the team's record that need to be considered.

Yes, but Luka's tanked hard down the stretch trying to keep their draft pick. That's a much different situation...

[Mr. Body]

Mikal Bridges will turn 28 this summer. Definitely not on the timeline. A guy like Anunoby would have been prefect, b but now that I look, he's going y be 27 this summer. That's crazy. He's going to get a lot in salary from the Knicks.

The SF is the position of vital need IMO. Julian just isn't a starter. With a competent 3& decent D guy the floor rises a lot. Many of the games we've lost would become more winnable.

Not really needing to splurge on a PG. It's a need but not nearly so urgent.

[mo7888]

Mikal Bridges will turn 28 this summer. Definitely not on the timeline. A guy like Anunoby would have been prefect, b but now that I look, he's going y be 27 this summer. That's crazy. He's going to get a lot in salary from the Knicks.

The SF is the position of vital need IMO. Julian just isn't a starter. With a competent 3& decent D guy the floor rises a lot. Many of the games we've lost would become more winnable.

Not really needing to splurge on a PG. It's a need but not nearly so urgent.

I think the timeline for Bridges is fine. I think the rumblings of pressure we hear around Wembanyama actually make 28 year old players a better fit than they would have a couple months ago.

[Mr. Body]

Oh, I'd absolutely not trade good assets for a 28 year old. That makes no sense whatsoever.

[MultiTroll]

KJ, Pop, Spurs 1R pick (top 5 protected)
for
Ty Maxey and Nick Nurse.

[mo7888]

Oh, I'd absolutely not trade good assets for a 28 year old. That makes no sense whatsoever.

In a situation where your 20 year old generational talent says 'get talent around me' it actually does unless you can find a younger player similarly talented for the same price.

[jjspur]

Keldon, the Toronto 1st, and a couple of 2nds for Jordan Hawkins and Herb Jones

[spurraider21]

Keldon, the Toronto 1st, and a couple of 2nds for Jordan Hawkins and Herb Jones
make it the charotte first and like 5 seconds

[scott]

make it the charotte first and like 5 seconds

We should definitely not overlook our ability to use some SRPs to add some useful veteran depth to this team in the offseason!

[DAF86]

Mikal Bridges will turn 28 this summer. Definitely not on the timeline. A guy like Anunoby would have been prefect, b but now that I look, he's going y be 27 this summer. That's crazy. He's going to get a lot in salary from the Knicks.

The SF is the position of vital need IMO. Julian just isn't a starter. With a competent 3& decent D guy the floor rises a lot. Many of the games we've lost would become more winnable.

Not really needing to splurge on a PG. It's a need but not nearly so urgent.

Mikal Bridges has around 7 more years of good basketball, how's that not on the timeline? :lol

This idea that every Wemby partner needs to be U-24 is dumb. You get the best players available to build the best team possible, and when they're done, you get others.

Imagine back in the days thinking "David Robinson isn't in the same timeline as Tim Duncan, let's trade him".

[Mr. Body]

In a situation where your 20 year old generational talent says 'get talent around me' it actually does unless you can find a younger player similarly talented for the same price.

Not at the prices Brooklyn wants. Not opposed to 28 year-olds, of course, but selling the farm to get a player who will be over the hill at 32 by the time Wembanyama is 24? How does that make sense. Then we'd be crying that we wasted all these nice draft picks for him. The opportunity cost there is massive.

[DAF86]

Not at the prices Brooklyn wants. Not opposed to 28 year-olds, of course, but selling the farm to get a player who will be over the hill at 32 by the time Wembanyama is 24? How does that make sense. Then we'd be crying that we wasted all these nice draft picks for him. The opportunity cost there is massive.

32 is no longer "over the hill" in current times, tbh. In fact, that's pretty much right at the peak of your powers.

[Mr. Body]

32 is no longer "over the hill" in current times, tbh. In fact, that's pretty much right at the peak of your powers.

For most players that's pretty much the end of the line. I mean, be pointlessly pedantic if you want trying to convince yourself trading great picks for Mikal Bridges is a great idea. It's not.

[mo7888]

Not at the prices Brooklyn wants. Not opposed to 28 year-olds, of course, but selling the farm to get a player who will be over the hill at 32 by the time Wembanyama is 24? How does that make sense. Then we'd be crying that we wasted all these nice draft picks for him. The opportunity cost there is massive.

I don't think I proposed selling the farm for MB. I do think that adding MB + CJ is of greater value than Trae, but I don't really want to overpay on either deal.

[scott]

Curious what the true price for MB would be, but Sean Marks is kind of like Ainge, always trying to completely molest the other side of the trade.

[DAF86]

For most players that's pretty much the end of the line. I mean, be pointlessly pedantic if you want trying to convince yourself trading great picks for Mikal Bridges is a great idea. It's not.

I have no opinion made on a Bridges trade, just saying that 32 is not what it used to be across all sports, heck, in life in general.

P/S: lol the irony of you blaming anyone else of being "pedantic". That would be like me doing the same, tbh. :lol

[DAF86]

The difference is I'm right a hell lot more often than you, tbh. :lol

[JeffDuncan]

The timeline is gone. Ancient history. As obsolete as the musket.

Wemby erased the timeline. He’s putting up stats of 21-10, leading the league in blocks, and he’s the most intimidating player in the NBA. He’s a rookie by the calendar, but he has the on-court presence of a seasoned, veteran, all star.

People thought Wemby might take, oh, maybe 3 years to “grow up” as an NBA player. That’s what I thought. It seemed reasonable enough. Well guess what. He “grew up” in 5 months.

Kids these days, I’ll tell ya. Hahaha.

Wemby, himself, is ready for a title run. Now.

The age of his teammates no longer matters. There’s no need to focus on youngsters who can “grow up” with Wemby, because he’s already there.

The people in the Spurs front office need to pluck out the chicken feathers, show some courage, take some chances and make some moves. Let’s rock and let’s roll.

[sfernald]

The timeline is gone. Ancient history. As obsolete as the musket.

Wemby erased the timeline. He’s putting up stats of 21-10, leading the league in blocks, and he’s the most intimidating player in the NBA. He’s a rookie by the calendar, but he has the on-court presence of a seasoned, veteran, all star.

People thought Wemby might take, oh, maybe 3 years to “grow up” as an NBA player. That’s what I thought. It seemed reasonable enough. Well guess what. He “grew up” in 5 months.

Kids these days, I’ll tell ya. Hahaha.

Wemby, himself, is ready for a title run. Now.

The age of his teammates no longer matters. There’s no need to focus on youngsters who can “grow up” with Wemby, because he’s already there.

The people in the Spurs front office need to pluck out the chicken feathers, show some courage, take some chances and make some moves. Let’s rock and let’s roll.

omg yes exactly. We need Brad Stevens. Has balls of steel to make the big trades. Imagine if we had gotten Jrue Holiday and Porzing last summer. We’d probably already be a contender and still loaded wirh future picks and lots of young players to develop.

[DAF86]

omg yes exactly. We need Brad Stevens. Has balls of steel to make the big trades. Imagine if we had gotten Jrue Holiday and Porzing last summer. We’d probably already be a contender and still loaded wirh future picks and lots of young players to develop.

Do you still want to trade for Giddey?

[BackHome]

The timeline is gone. Ancient history. As obsolete as the musket.

Wemby erased the timeline. He’s putting up stats of 21-10, leading the league in blocks, and he’s the most intimidating player in the NBA. He’s a rookie by the calendar, but he has the on-court presence of a seasoned, veteran, all star.

People thought Wemby might take, oh, maybe 3 years to “grow up” as an NBA player. That’s what I thought. It seemed reasonable enough. Well guess what. He “grew up” in 5 months.

Kids these days, I’ll tell ya. Hahaha.

Wemby, himself, is ready for a title run. Now.

The age of his teammates no longer matters. There’s no need to focus on youngsters who can “grow up” with Wemby, because he’s already there.

The people in the Spurs front office need to pluck out the chicken feathers, show some courage, take some chances and make some moves. Let’s rock and let’s roll.

The problem is we are not the Flakers were not a beacon for free agents and anyone coming is going to want Max contract. If the right player becomes available and we don’t have to pay a kings ransom then go for it but I am not throwing my draft picks away just so we can win 40 games.

[sfernald]

Do you still want to trade for Giddey?

if we can get him cheap, sure. The one thing this team needs is better playmakers. Well honestly they need pretty much everything. Especially shooting too.

[baseline bum]

make it the charotte first and like 5 seconds

so 7 seconds

[sfernald]

The problem is we are not the Flakers were not a beacon for free agents and anyone coming is going to want Max contract. If the right player becomes available and we don’t have to pay a kings ransom then go for it but I am not throwing my draft picks away just so we can win 40 games.

sure but we can be Milwaukee can’t we? They just got one of the best players in the league and they are always trying to get every single good player who comes up available. That’s what we need to be, Milwaukee, hustling for every good player instead of standing on the sidelines watching and waiting and developing, too proud to go after anyone apparently.

[DAF86]

if we can get him cheap, sure. The one thing this team needs is better playmakers. Well honestly they need pretty much everything. Especially shooting too.

You wanted to give lottery picks for him, that's not cheap. :lol

[Splits]

so 7 seconds

bend over, I'll give you 7 seconds or less

[mo7888]

Assuming we're now accelerating the rebuild, what do ypu guys think about Jerami Grant? How do you see the fit? And the cost?

[Spursfanfromafar]

Assuming we're now accelerating the rebuild, what do ypu guys think about Jerami Grant? How do you see the fit? And the cost?

Has the tools but seems like a guy who wants to chase empty seats with losing teams than playing for a winner.

[mo7888]

Has the tools but seems like a guy who wants to chase empty seats with losing teams than playing for a winner.

I think he's just been chasing the money(which I can't fault him for). He's been shooting 40% from 3 the past couple years and was known as a defensive guy earlier in his career. He's probably obtainable, I'm not sure if he's a 3 or 4, but we can use either.

[CGD]

Setting aside all the mechanics of a trade, let’s start with the basic question: based on what we’ve seen of Vic to date, who are the best fits out there?

[scott]

I think he's just been chasing the money(which I can't fault him for). He's been shooting 40% from 3 the past couple years and was known as a defensive guy earlier in his career. He's probably obtainable, I'm not sure if he's a 3 or 4, but we can use either.

I like generally Grant, but his contract is probably the kind that we can't really afford if we want to leave flexibility to add a second star (Trae or otherwise). He's in the first year of a 5/160 (~20% of the cap) with a player option at $36MM when he turns 33. He's also a pretty pathetic rebounder, and we can't afford that.

[scott]

Setting aside all the mechanics of a trade, let’s start with the basic question: based on what we’ve seen of Vic to date, who are the best fits out there?

He and his contract used to get scoffed at here, but I feel like someone like Duncan Robinson would be a good fit as a 6th man. He's developed his all-around game, is a decent defender (or so it appears on paper), and of course has the shooting chops. I don't want to give up a prime asset to get him, but someone in that archetype could be nice.

[SpursBills]

Setting aside all the mechanics of a trade, let’s start with the basic question: based on what we’ve seen of Vic to date, who are the best fits out there?

If you're looking at what Wemby is and what he can be, he's a DPOY type guy on offense with a rapidly improving passing game as well as a rapidly improving jumper. At his peak, he can probably function as an offensive hub some of the time, as a play finisher some of the time, and as a shooter some of the time. Vassell is a tough shot maker with an improving passing game. Basically, to optimize the team around them, you probably need to a) maximize spacing to allow Wemby to operate b) have an advantage creator c) point of attack defense.

So from my standpoint, if you're ignoring mechanics of a trade and just looking at skillsets. the ideal fitting lineup around Wemby would look something like Derrick White-Vassell-Paul George-Lauri Markannen-Wembanyama
5 man lineup that with size where nobody can be hunted, can all dribble-pass-shoot, and has a ton of spacing to let everyone work.

Now obviously, White/George/Markannen are not realistic trade targets, so I guess we have to consider how you get players approximating their skillsets. For example, I think Naz Reid has been brought up quite a few times and I really like that idea as a tall forward who can shoot well. Derrick white was a mid-20s draft pick and you wonder if you can find someone like that in the draft. Maybe like Devin Carter or someone similar. Paul George is impossible to replicate, but maybe you see something in one of the forwards this year that can bring 70% of what he does. Just spitballing ideas.

[CGD]

^ I think it’s good to start with the archetypes now that we have a better sense of Vic’s skills.

I personally think Jabari Smith would be the perfect player upfront with Vic and Sochan, so I’m looking for that type of player in the draft or in a trade. At PG it would be great to have someone that isn’t a complete liability on defense, as much as I do like the idea of adding Trae. I’m keeping an eye of the Piston PG situation.

[sfernald]

You wanted to give lottery picks for him, that's not cheap. :lol

well let me ask you in this draft would you do Toronto pick #7 for #9 and #11? What if our pick was #5? Would you do #5 for #9 and #11? My thinking was we trade back letting Okc get their man (I’m guessing JDub’s bro Cody) and we get their two lottery picks further back and Giddey is almost a throw in to secure the deal. So yeah I do think he would come cheap. If you do #5 but not #1 but maybe #3 then that is the cost of Giddey. Honestly tho thinking about I think they trade with Wizards who could really use a player like Giddey as much or more and wouldn’t have the hang ups we would with trading with them.

[sfernald]

^ I think it’s good to start with the archetypes now that we have a better sense of Vic’s skills.

I personally think Jabari Smith would be the perfect player upfront with Vic and Sochan, so I’m looking for that type of player in the draft or in a trade. At PG it would be great to have someone that isn’t a complete liability on defense, as much as I do like the idea of adding Trae. I’m keeping an eye of the Piston PG situation.m

Are you thinking Cade or Ivey there? Cause I hear people murmur about getting Cade but I think he is the very last person they would be willing to trade. We should nab their ex-Frenchman who is free and available right now!

[CGD]

m

Are you thinking Cade or Ivey there? Cause I hear people murmur about getting Cade but I think he is the very last person they would be willing to trade. We should nab their ex-Frenchman who is free and available right now!

Cade or Ivey, assuming they can’t co-exist long term. Don’t know enough about DET to know if that is a legit concern tho.

Like would DET take the Trae Young package (or something slightly less) for Cade?

[tbdog]

^ I think it’s good to start with the archetypes now that we have a better sense of Vic’s skills.

I personally think Jabari Smith would be the perfect player upfront with Vic and Sochan, so I’m looking for that type of player in the draft or in a trade. At PG it would be great to have someone that isn’t a complete liability on defense, as much as I do like the idea of adding Trae. I’m keeping an eye of the Piston PG situation.

If Houston were open to trade Jabari Smith to the Spurs, then they would be falling in love with a player in the draft for the Spurs pick, and simultaneously the Spurs would not be in love with the pick. Only then would a deal be negotiated.

[sfernald]

Cade or Ivey, assuming they can’t co-exist long term. Don’t know enough about DET to know if that is a legit concern tho.

Like would DET take the Trae Young package (or something slightly less) for Cade?

I don’t think they would cause they are in a really weird position. They have been stuck rebuilding too long and fans are no longer willing to wait for them to continue drafting. They are after Weaver’s hide! He can’t just keep building from the draft anymore. There is huge pressure to put together a winner. That means trading their picks and youth for vets or stars who will win games for them immediately. I think they would be more likely to trade anyone but maybe Cade and Duren for win now players. Or trade any of their draft picks for that matter.

[mo7888]

Been looking at a few trade targets and a few FA targets and how we might mix and match depending on who we get as our other star target this summer. Obviously this isn't exhaustive. I'm just using Trae, PG, and Harden as the star targets here and we could miss on all three. I'm assuming that we'll need a couple other guys to add to whoever we get. So, my question is, "how would you build out the roster" if we got one of them? Who goes with Vic/Trae... Vic/PG etc? If we miss on all three who do we go after to add to Vic?

Trae Young $40M 3 years left on contract
Deni Avdija $15.6 4 years
Naz Reid $13.9 2 years po year 2
Cason Wallace $5.5 3 years
Herbert Jones $12.9 3 years
*Nick Smith Jr $2.5M 3 years

Paul George
James Harden
Isaiah Joe
Issac Okoro
Grayson Allen
Malik Monk
Tobias Harris
Caleb Martin
Jalen Smith

*NSJ is strictly on here because i believe in him and one of the reasons I do is I thought he'd be a much better 3 pt shooter in the nba than he was in college based on position, spacing, and form. He's done that. He just needs to be in the right organization.

[scott]

Love the Naz Reid and Herb Jones ideas. I also am still high on Gordon Hayward. He wasn't done much in OKC, but was putting up pretty decent stat in CHA this season.

TJ Warren is a guy not getting any run in PHO... is he washed?

Like Royce O'Neal. Andre Drummond if we don't have Collins on the roster. Like Tobais Harris as a fit but think he'll cost too much. Don't really feel like the other guys on the FA list are obtainable. Also think Avdija would be costly and Wallance wouldn't be available.

[objective]

Love the Naz Reid and Herb Jones ideas. I also am still high on Gordon Hayward. He wasn't done much in OKC, but was putting up pretty decent stat in CHA this season.

TJ Warren is a guy not getting any run in PHO... is he washed?

Like Royce O'Neal. Andre Drummond if we don't have Collins on the roster. Like Tobais Harris as a fit but think he'll cost too much. Don't really feel like the other guys on the FA list are obtainable. Also think Avdija would be costly and Wallance wouldn't be available.

Uhhh

Unless I'm wrong, TJ Warren has not been on an NBA roster all year and might not ever play again

[mo7888]

Love the Naz Reid and Herb Jones ideas. I also am still high on Gordon Hayward. He wasn't done much in OKC, but was putting up pretty decent stat in CHA this season.

TJ Warren is a guy not getting any run in PHO... is he washed?

Like Royce O'Neal. Andre Drummond if we don't have Collins on the roster. Like Tobais Harris as a fit but think he'll cost too much. Don't really feel like the other guys on the FA list are obtainable. Also think Avdija would be costly and Wallance wouldn't be available.

I agree on Harris. I think he's a guy you get if you miss on the top 3. Hayward is an interesting player depending on cost. TJ, i believe is washed. I'm highest on Naz and Herb, especially if we get Trae or Harden, but Okoro suprised me tne most. I knew he was a strong defender, but i didn't know his 3 pt % had improved so much (39%)

[Chinook]

We should definitely not overlook our ability to use some SRPs to add some useful veteran depth to this team in the offseason!

Especially with exceptions like the MLE being able to take back contracts. Just as I wanted the Spurs to get in on Royce O'Neal, I'd be looking hard at DFS if the team makes any win-now move for a guard. Despite the conversation we've had in another thread, I'm not at all against them bringing in a vet defensive forward if they can swing it.

[CGD]

^ interesting you have Tobias, was just thinking he would be a good target to round out a starting group with Trae, Vassell, Sochan and VW.

[Chinook]

Assuming we're now accelerating the rebuild, what do ypu guys think about Jerami Grant? How do you see the fit? And the cost?

I've talked about Grant in the Millsap/Iggy mold. I don't know if he fits. He does have a lot of experience that could help the young players, and he's played with Embiid and Jokic. He knows how to play with a young uber talented big and one who's entering his prime. He makes a fair bit of money, but he also seems to be a guy who wants to be able to settle down into a situation rather than win now. That's not a bad thing considering the team culture and where it is. I don't know that I consider Grant and Sochan a starting forward combo, but I don't know if I consider him the type of player I'd want the team to replace Jeremy with at the cost of picks and cap space. He's probably my top target in the "transitional vet" vein, but I'm not happy about it.

As I've mentioned before, there's a real issue with the draft classes in the first half of last decade being mostly awful, which means that age bracket of player isn't around to add to the squad. The team desperately needs even a 2018 Rudy Gay. In that mold, you have Ingram and Randle as possibilities in free agency in 2025 or as trades in 2024. Randle is already starting to make that pivot, but he's probably not leaving the Knicks unless he's a more fails a bit there, which makes him a less desirable get. Harden's talent is fine there, but his attitude is bad. The same goes for Paul. The Warriors' dynasty also means there aren't a lot of vets out there who have experience as core members of a title winning team. Middleton's an option if Milwaukee falls apart, but he's also fading quite a bit, which is a big reason why MKE is falling in the first pace.

[TD 21]

Uhhh

Unless I'm wrong, TJ Warren has not been on an NBA roster all year and might not ever play again

He just signed with the Timberwolves today.

[scott]

It's TJ Warren show out szn :lol

[JeffDuncan]

…

Trae Young $40M 3 years left on contract
Deni Avdija $15.6 4 years
Naz Reid $13.9 2 years po year 2
Cason Wallace $5.5 3 years
Herbert Jones $12.9 3 years
*Nick Smith Jr $2.5M 3 years
…



Trae Young: worth a serious offer, of course, presuming he’s available. No need to rehash all that here.

Avdija: extended with the Wiz through 2027-28, as you show. Is there more to say?

Naz Reid: worth talking about.

Cason Wallace: not worth talking about at this time.

Herb Jones: signed a new contract last summer as you show. Might be worth talking about.

Nick Smith Jr: looks like he can shoot, I guess. Might be somebody to keep an eye on.

Paul George and James Harden, their availability is probably illusory. The Clips need big names to compete with the Fakers in that market, a market which is so celebrity oriented. Ballmer is likely to shovel more money at them, the same as he recently did Leonard, regardless of the Clips playoff results. This is especially true with the new Clips arena opening next season. It seems safe to say the Clips would like to have their smiling faces to help advertise the new house. Ballmer can’t get Jokic, Embiid, LeBron, or Luka, so what else is he going to do?

Isaiah Joe: probably better than the backup shooting guards the Spurs currently have.

Issac Okoro: coming off his rookie contract. Cavs have been picking up the team options but haven’t extended him yet. Worth a look.

Grayson Allen: good shooter. What’s the Spurs interest, tho? Backup SG? Replace Vassell? Allen is overpowered for a backup, and altho Allen shows better shooting percentages than Vassell I’d be iffy about him as a replacement.

Malik Monk: I happen to think he’d help the Spurs.

Tobias Harris: good player. The constant complaint has been that the 76ers overpaid him. He’s on the last year of that big contract at a cool $39.27 M. I would enter a bid for his services, but not at that financial altitude.

Caleb Martin: he has overachieved with the Heat. Can’t say I’m keenly interested in him.

Jalen Smith: I’d look to do better for a backup center. He currently has a lower BLK% than Zollins.

[CGD]

^ Tobias next deal will probably still be in high teens low 20s. That might make it hard to get him.

[Atl Spur]

Sadiq Bey is the play for sf.

[mo7888]

Trae Young: worth a serious offer, of course, presuming he’s available. No need to rehash all that here.

Avdija: extended with the Wiz through 2027-28, as you show. Is there more to say?

Naz Reid: worth talking about.

Cason Wallace: not worth talking about at this time.

Herb Jones: signed a new contract last summer as you show. Might be worth talking about.

Nick Smith Jr: looks like he can shoot, I guess. Might be somebody to keep an eye on.

Paul George and James Harden, their availability is probably illusory. The Clips need big names to compete with the Fakers in that market, a market which is so celebrity oriented. Ballmer is likely to shovel more money at them, the same as he recently did Leonard, regardless of the Clips playoff results. This is especially true with the new Clips arena opening next season. It seems safe to say the Clips would like to have their smiling faces to help advertise the new house. Ballmer can’t get Jokic, Embiid, LeBron, or Luka, so what else is he going to do?

Isaiah Joe: probably better than the backup shooting guards the Spurs currently have.

Issac Okoro: coming off his rookie contract. Cavs have been picking up the team options but haven’t extended him yet. Worth a look.

Grayson Allen: good shooter. What’s the Spurs interest, tho? Backup SG? Replace Vassell? Allen is overpowered for a backup, and altho Allen shows better shooting percentages than Vassell I’d be iffy about him as a replacement.

Malik Monk: I happen to think he’d help the Spurs.

Tobias Harris: good player. The constant complaint has been that the 76ers overpaid him. He’s on the last year of that big contract at a cool $39.27 M. I would enter a bid for his services, but not at that financial altitude.

Caleb Martin: he has overachieved with the Heat. Can’t say I’m keenly interested in him.

Jalen Smith: I’d look to do better for a backup center. He currently has a lower BLK% than Zollins.

Avdija- 23 years old..could be attainable... shoots 40% from 3....doesn't cost a ton. Improves the position

Allen- depth depending on cost. Could play alongside a bigger pount in certain lineups...adds toughness and shooting..

[mo7888]

I haven't watched Dallas much this year, but if todays game is any indication, Luka may try to push his way out this summer. He isn't happy and the Kyrie fit is problematic.

That's not to necessarily suggest that he'd want to come here (even though we can put up a strong package), but anytime a player of that magnitude moves it reverberates and we might be able to take advantage.

[dbestpro]

Bruce Brown…. We need defense.

[LeBowen]

Bruce Brown…. We need defense.

Doesn't fit.
He's a 6'4 shooting guard. Can't start together with Vassell unless we manage to get the next great point forward.
And he's making $22M a year, big overpay.

JeffDuncan's list is pretty good, some of us mentioned those players already.
We should look for good 3-D wings that are in 10-20M per year range.
Herb Jones and Naz Reid would be perfect.

I wouldn't even be opposed to a slighty overpay in assets for players on cheap, long-term deals compared to getting players that are just solid all-stars on max deals, like for example Bridges.

[TD 21]

Since they'll probably utilize the natural 1st on a SF, unless Johnson is needed for a Young or Mitchell trade, shop him for more draft capital.

I don't know that he'd fetch an outright 1st, but there's a game of musical chairs that could ensue between the Hornets, Pistons and 76ers, with Bridges and Harris. Whoever is left without one could have interest.

The Hornets, in particular, since Bridges blocked a trade to the Suns at the deadline to preserve Bird rights. They also have Bertans large partial guarantee ($5M out of $16M).

Maybe package Johnson and their '24 1st for an upgraded 1st and Mann? Then take that and offer it for Reid.

[mo7888]

Since they'll probably utilize the natural 1st on a SF, unless Johnson is needed for a Young or Mitchell trade, shop him for more draft capital.

I don't know that he'd fetch an outright 1st, but there's a game of musical chairs that could ensue between the Hornets, Pistons and 76ers, with Bridges and Harris. Whoever is left without one could have interest.

The Hornets, in particular, since Bridges blocked a trade to the Suns at the deadline to preserve Bird rights. They also have Bertans large partial guarantee ($5M out of $16M).

Maybe package Johnson and their '24 1st for an upgraded 1st and Mann? Then take that and offer it for Reid.

I'm probably more inclined to use him in a trade for a player, but if Charlotte doesn't keep Miles then i could see KJ + a few seconds in exchange for them lifting the protection on their pick that we hold being on the table.

[objective]

I don't want any part of Tobias Harris

He has been a disappointment every year in the playoffs for Philly and come up short as a #3, as a #4, as a #2, everything. He's going to be 32 this summer and it's coming off of last year's series with Boston where he disappeared for 10 points a game on a max contract

Why anyone would want a declining, aging player like him with so many disappointments , I don't know. Spending their free agent money on Harris is a good example of what not to do with Wemby unless it's a 2 year with a team option or non guarantee 2nd year

[TD 21]

I'm probably more inclined to use him in a trade for a player, but if Charlotte doesn't keep Miles then i could see KJ + a few seconds in exchange for them lifting the protection on their pick that we hold being on the table.

You mean just extend the lottery protection so that it doesn't convert to multiple 2nds post '25 (if that's even possible)?

Otherwise, given the likelihood that they remain in not only the lottery but top half or thereabouts for at least another season, no way they're trade a pick that high for Johnson.

[mo7888]

You mean just extend the lottery protection so that it doesn't convert to multiple 2nds post '25 (if that's even possible)?

Otherwise, given the likelihood that they remain in not only the lottery but top half or thereabouts for at least another season, no way they're trade a pick that high for Johnson.

Could lower the protection and extend. Top 6 protected and extended for 3 years.

[TD 21]

Could lower the protection and extend. Top 6 protected and extended for 3 years.

I don't know that they'd go quite so low, but if they'd do something similar . . .

To Hornets: Johnson
To Timberwolves: Graham, Hornets protected '24 1st
To Spurs: Reid, Bertans

[DAF86]

Markannen would be a grea fit next to Victor. I would much rather get him than Trae Young, tbh.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Doesn't fit.
He's a 6'4 shooting guard. Can't start together with Vassell unless we manage to get the next great point forward.
And he's making $22M a year, big overpay.

JeffDuncan's list is pretty good, some of us mentioned those players already.
We should look for good 3-D wings that are in 10-20M per year range.
Herb Jones and Naz Reid would be perfect.

I wouldn't even be opposed to a slighty overpay in assets for players on cheap, long-term deals compared to getting players that are just solid all-stars on max deals, like for example Bridges.

Jones doesn't fit with Vassell already. The way he fits is by pushing a borderline starter in Jones to the bench in favor of a borderline all-NBA guard.

[LeBowen]

Jones doesn't fit with Vassell already. The way he fits is by pushing a borderline starter in Jones to the bench in favor of a borderline all-NBA guard.

Are you ok? Where did I say Jones should be the starter going forward?
Noone sees Jones as a starter, that doesn't mean Bruce Brown with his non-existant playmaking would be an improvement to this team.
We need an elite playmaker.

[tbdog]

Markannen would be a grea fit next to Victor. I would much rather get him than Trae Young, tbh.

No one can extend him. He actually has a non guarantee next season, which shows you how far he has come. But also his extension price is so low that he would have to go to free agency to resign him. Similar to Anunoby. Difference is that anunoby wants to be a knick and they already know the figure he is resigning for.

Markannen future desire is unknown. He is saying he wants to be a jazz for the future.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Are you ok? Where did I say Jones should be the starter going forward?
Noone sees Jones as a starter, that doesn't mean Bruce Brown with his non-existant playmaking would be an improvement to this team.
We need an elite playmaker.

Who said I said that? Jones is the status quo. IOW, adding Young doesn't add a problem that does not already exist.

[LeBowen]

Who said I said that? Jones is the status quo. IOW, adding Young doesn't add a problem that does not already exist.

At this point you're just trying to start an argument for the sake of it.
I'm honestly not interested.
There's no chance Tre starts next season.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

At this point you're just trying to start an argument for the sake of it.
I'm honestly not interested.
There's no chance Tre starts next season.

You seem to struggle to even consider my argument. Whether or not Jones starts next season, adding Young would not produce a new problem.

[LeBowen]

You seem to struggle to even consider my argument. Whether or not Jones starts next season, adding Young would not produce a new problem.

Young? You were talking about Bruce Brown, ffs.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Young? You were talking about Bruce Brown, ffs.

works for both of them. Vassell being a bad fit because he is undersized himself and a mediocre defender does not mean that we should not upgrade Jones because of a potential fit with him.

[spurraider21]

Markannen would be a grea fit next to Victor. I would much rather get him than Trae Young, tbh.
oh 100%

i just think he's much less likely to be available or reasonably priced

[spurraider21]

works for both of them. Vassell being a bad fit because he is undersized himself and a mediocre defender does not mean that we should not upgrade Jones because of a potential fit with him.
how is vassell undersized? 6'5, 200 with a 6'11 wingspan is very good size for a SG

[Ariel]

oh 100%

i just think he's much less likely to be available or reasonably priced
He's an unrestricted free agent next year, he'd command the max but I don't see why the Spurs couldn't at least be an attractive destination for him (same goes for Donovan Mitchell and Derrick White).

[Splits]

how is vassell undersized? 6'5, 200 with a 6'11 wingspan is very good size for a SG

undersized hopes and dreams

1764611011456200853

[spurraider21]

He's an unrestricted free agent next year, he'd command the max but I don't see why the Spurs couldn't at least be an attractive destination for him (same goes for Donovan Mitchell and Derrick White).
assuming there's no extension, and assuming you are comfortable waiting until 2025 and hoping he picks you

as opposed to acquiring a guy in 2024

[FuzzyLumpkins]

how is vassell undersized? 6'5, 200 with a 6'11 wingspan is very good size for a SG

Fair. He doesn't play large/long on offense or defense. I don't see him using it to fight through picks or contest shots nor do I see him extend to finish. He is more prone to leverage his leaping.

[DAF86]

oh 100%

i just think he's much less likely to be available or reasonably priced

Instead of giving the Hawks their picks back, we offer them to Utah. You think they wouldn't go for it?

[spurraider21]

Instead of giving the Hawks their picks back, we offer them to Utah. You think they wouldn't go for it?
picks to the jazz from a hawks team with Trae + Murray are less valuable than the hawks receiving those picks enabling them to tank

wasnt there word about the jazz wanting like 4 FRPs for Lauri? Ainge is a shark

[DAF86]

picks to the jazz from a hawks team with Trae + Murray are less valuable than the hawks receiving those picks enabling them to tank

wasnt there word about the jazz wanting like 4 FRPs for Lauri? Ainge is a shark

In negotations there's an argument to be made that Markannen isn't in the same tier as Young and that they can't ask for that much.

[scott]

Enter the negotiating room with Ainge at your own risk

[Ariel]

assuming there's no extension, and assuming you are comfortable waiting until 2025 and hoping he picks you

as opposed to acquiring a guy in 2024
1) It's unlikely he signs one given his current contract is too low for the max increase to bring an extension close to what his value is
2) It's ONE YEAR... if you think you have a REALISTIC chance to sign a player of his caliber and still keep your assets for future use, that's a game changer (I don't know whether it is, but the FO might). Not just him, but like I said, Donovan Mitchell and Derrick White (and others) as well. Everybody is on a rush to make a blockbuster deal right now given Wemby's rise and the news that he's uncomfortable losing, but while I definitely think the Spurs shouldn't tempt fate by entering next season without any improvements, I do believe a competitive team would be enough for year 2, and much smaller moves could get you there (say, sign Tyus Jones or trade for Malcom Brogdon, among others). Every season there are opportunities to improve. Take Boston for instance, a lot of their success has to do with them not panicking and making opportunistic trades with great benefit-cost ratio (Derrick White, Porzingis, Jrue, Horford, Brogdon, etc). Same can be said of Denver (Aaron Gordon, KCP, etc). If someone is available sooner and the price is right, go for it, but I would be wary of going the route of Dallas when they drafted Luka and be in a worse place 3 years from now, which is when the Spurs REALLY need to be at their best to sell Wemby on their chances to be a long term contender.

[spurraider21]

Enter the negotiating room with Ainge at your own risk
love the concept of Markannen but i think getting a reasonable trade out of Ainge is unlikely and deciding to just wait and preserve 2025 cap space with the hopes Lauri voluntarily comes to SA is quite the gambit. this isnt a LMA perfect storm situation

[scott]

I do not want to try to trade with Ainge, ever. It would be interesting to see what kind of maneuvering would be required to go after Lauri next year, assume we didn't make a BIG move, but some solid moves this offseason. A S&T next season wouldn't be off the table either, in which case I think Ainge would probably be slightly more reasonable to deal with (maybe?). I also think Lauri would be perfect, but I think very expensive to acquire. I don't know if market prices have been considered to be significantly cooled since, but I'm still using the summer of DJM/Gobert/Mitchell trades as my marker for players of Lauri (or Trae's) caliber and think these guys will take a lot to get. However, the Spurs actually have the capital to spend... just doubt they want to go so big on one piece.

[scott]

1) It's unlikely he signs one given his current contract is too low for the max increase to bring an extension close to what his value is
2) It's ONE YEAR... if you think you have a REALISTIC chance to sign a player of his caliber and still keep your assets for future use, that's a game changer (I don't know whether it is, but the FO might). Not just him, but like I said, Donovan Mitchell and Derrick White (and others) as well. Everybody is on a rush to make a blockbuster deal right now given Wemby's rise and the news that he's uncomfortable losing, but while I definitely think the Spurs shouldn't tempt fate by entering next season without any improvements, I do believe a competitive team would be enough for year 2, and much smaller moves could get you there (say, sign Tyus Jones or trade for Malcom Brogdon, among others). Every season there are opportunities to improve. Take Boston for instance, a lot of their success has to do with them not panicking and making opportunistic trades with great benefit-cost ratio (Derrick White, Porzingis, Jrue, Horford, Brogdon, etc). Same can be said of Denver (Aaron Gordon, KCP, etc). If someone is available sooner and the price is right, go for it, but I would be wary of going the route of Dallas when they drafted Luka and be in a worse place 3 years from now, which is when the Spurs REALLY need to be at their best to sell Wemby on their chances to be a long term contender.

Definitely agree with this, as vocal as I've been about putting a team around Wemby ASAP... I'm only talking about a play-in team that will continue to grow, as compared to the historically-bad team we have now. Spurs SHOULD be able to find a way to build a play-in team while still keeping the major powder dry for the when the right opportunity comes along (maybe that opportunity is Trae, maybe not... that's just a matter of preference).

[Kevin]

I'd trade Dev and our own first rounder this year plus one of the Bulls or Raps pick Lauri.

Trade the Hawks picks plus Keldon and Zollin for Young and you have a big three with Sochan/Jones/Dom rounding out the rotation. Just need 3&D wings but everything else is pretty well set.

[TD 21]

I wouldn't splurge on Markkanen for two reasons: 1) The Jazz have no incentive to trade him, which means it'd take a significant overpay and 2) He's a finisher (no pun intended), not a creator.


Take Boston for instance, a lot of their success has to do with them not panicking and making opportunistic trades with great benefit-cost ratio (Derrick White, Porzingis, Jrue, Horford, Brogdon, etc). Same can be said of Denver (Aaron Gordon, KCP, etc). If someone is available sooner and the price is right, go for it, but I would be wary of going the route of Dallas when they drafted Luka and be in a worse place 3 years from now, which is when the Spurs REALLY need to be at their best to sell Wemby on their chances to be a long term contender.

People keep bringing up examples that don't equate.

The Celtics didn't have an all-time prospect and were already good in the early stages of the Tatum era, so of course they could afford to be methodical.

The Nuggets were basically a fluke, considering how unlikely Jokic becoming what he has was, so again, of course they could afford to be methodical.

This situation might be unprecedented. If they just had some regular primary scorer/play maker who wasn't good could enough but could suffice for the time being, it'd probably be fine to adopt a patient approach.

[JeffDuncan]

I wouldn't splurge on Markkanen for two reasons: 1) The Jazz have no incentive to trade him, which means it'd take a significant overpay and 2) He's a finisher (no pun intended), not a creator.
…



Yes, Markkanen is currently averaging 2.0 assists per game which is the highest of his career. I would prefer players who are more “assist aware” to team with Wemby.

[Degoat]

I still like the idea of Darius Garland, I think he’d be a little cheaper than Trae Young. And I worry a little would Trae Young except a 2nd banana role?

[spurraider21]

I still like the idea of Darius Garland, I think he’d be a little cheaper than Trae Young. And I worry a little would Trae Young except a 2nd banana role?
when Trae was asked during all star weekend what wemby needs, he was giddy and smiling and kept saying "someone that can help him win"

think he understands

[baseline bum]

I still like the idea of Darius Garland, I think he’d be a little cheaper than Trae Young. And I worry a little would Trae Young except a 2nd banana role?

Garland might cost more because those two Atlanta picks and the swap are worth way less to Cleveland than they are to Atlanta. To Cleveland they're two picks probably around #10 and a swap to around #10 with not much of a shot of being #1 or #2. To Atlanta they're three top 5 picks with real shots to be #1 or #2 to go after guys like Cooper Flagg, AJ Dybantsa, or Cameron Boozer.

[DAF86]

I wouldn't splurge on Markkanen for two reasons: 1) The Jazz have no incentive to trade him, which means it'd take a significant overpay and 2) He's a finisher (no pun intended), not a creator.

Markkanen is like the perfect number 3. A guy that provides all-star level production while not needing to have the ball on his hands. He's basically the PF version of Klay Thompson.

I know a playmaking perimeter player is a bigger need than a Markkanen type player right now, but if the choice is between Trae Young and Markkanen, I would rather have Markkanen and try to get that playmaking guard later, when a better option presents itself.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

when Trae was asked during all star weekend what wemby needs, he was giddy and smiling and kept saying "someone that can help him win"

think he understands

this is the thing that gets me. Trae does seem giddy in that interview. There is nothing to stop the teams from continuing the discussion after the deadline and they can trade as soon as the season is over. This offseason is going to be so interesting.

[RC_Drunkford]

Markkanen would fit, but I actually think OKC will make an offer for him. If they replace Giddey with Markkanen in the starting line up, they will be a problem.

[DAF86]

Markkanen would fit, but I actually think OKC will make an offer for him. If they replace Giddey with Markkanen in the starting line up, they will be a problem.

Another reason to try and get him. Although getting Markkanen now could become a problem in the future for OKC when they need to resign SGA, Williams and Chet. That would be 4 players with max contracts or close.

[CGD]

Spurs should go raid Philly for their free agents this summer.
Some serviceable mid-tier folks in there that could fits nicely:

Tobias Harris
Buddy Hield
De'Anthony Melton
Nicolas Batum

[Chinook]

undersized hopes and dreams

1764611011456200853

Vassell not wanting to throw away a season for a lotto pick -- horrible character

Victor not wanting to throw away a season for a lotto pick -- alpha

It's just silly, man. Both of these guys want to win. Rather than a sign of jealousy, it's a sign the current two best players are pulling in the same direction.

[Atl Spur]

Vassell not wanting to throw away a season for a lotto pick -- horrible character

Victor not wanting to throw away a season for a lotto pick -- alpha

It's just silly, man. Both of these guys want to win. Rather than a sign of jealousy, it's a sign the current two best players are pulling in the same direction.

^this

[RC_Drunkford]

This tweet is from the 2022 offseason. Y‘all just make shit up

[Ignazzz]

I still like the idea of Darius Garland, I think he’d be a little cheaper than Trae Young. And I worry a little would Trae Young except a 2nd banana role?

picks plus fillers to ATL
Trae to Cavs
Garland and extra assets from Cavs to spurs

[LeBowen]

picks plus fillers to ATL
Trae to Cavs
Garland and extra assets from Cavs to spurs

Why would the Cavs do that?
They're trading Garland only if Mitchell stays, which doesn't look likely.
Mitchell and another undersized, bad defense guard can't really work in the playoffs.

[MultiTroll]

:cry My plan to get Ty Maxey isn't going to happen. :cry

I have to continue to listen to you guys talk about 1/5th as good Trae Young. :(

Why Tyrese Maxey Isn’t Getting A Contract Extension — By Design (forbes.com) (https://www.forbes.com/sites/mortenjensen/2023/10/17/why-tyrese-maxey-isnt-getting-a-contract-extensionby-design/?sh=6f53b2367dfb)

[JPB]

1) I do believe a competitive team would be enough for year 2, and much smaller moves could get you there (say, sign Tyus Jones or trade for Malcom Brogdon, among others). Every season there are opportunities to improve. Take Boston for instance, a lot of their success has to do with them not panicking and making opportunistic trades with great benefit-cost ratio (Derrick White, Porzingis, Jrue, Horford, Brogdon, etc). Same can be said of Denver (Aaron Gordon, KCP, etc). If someone is available sooner and the price is right, go for it, but I would be wary of going the route of Dallas when they drafted Luka and be in a worse place 3 years from now, which is when the Spurs REALLY need to be at their best to sell Wemby on their chances to be a long term contender.

that's two completely different situations with those two teams and SA... there's no real comparison, if I may.

You're comparing two already competitive teams with solid rosters lead by 2 stars (Tatum/Brown in Boston, Jokic/Murray in Denver) adding elite role players, which is always easier when you contend, and like SA did in the past, vs. a rebuilding team stuck in the bottom of the NBA with a mediocre to bad roster + an almost ready generational talent...

Boston and Denver didn't panic because they didn't have to, why would they? they're elite of the league, good players want to go there... Now on the other side, you have a team who badly suck for these last two years stuck with a bunch of role players and a coach, bluffing or not, explaining the plan is to keep developing these guys who seem to regress (half of them could be already considered vets or soon (Devin, Keldon, Tre, Zach)) and are losing value as assets every month passing. A team who, besides lucking into Wemby (imagine we get pick #3 and end up with Scoot), didn't draft that well these past 5 years and have that generational talent right there ready to eat the NBA alive...

you shouldn't never panic, but I would say there definitely should be a sense of urgency and awareness. Spurs FO shouldn't imagine they're smarter than the rest of the NBA and should really take they to consider all their options, where they want to go, and the direction they want to take...

[sfernald]

Just getting some true vets to cover the basics would help immensely. Then I really do think there wouldn’t be such a sense of urgency.

Trade for Brogdan for three seconds and matching salary. He really is decent and would help immensely.

Trade for Dorian Finney Smith for three seconds and matching salary. Nice bigger wing, with good 3pt shot and good defender.

Do a sign and trade to get a better player than our 20 million cap space will allow. Maybe throw in a 1st and Kelton if necessary. Not sure who. Any thoughts?

Then we save almost all our ammo but we now have three quality vets who will actually help Wemby win games next year!

Also with our pick and Toronto pick, add two good shooters! We want to surround Wemby with three point shooters, so get some good ones!

[Ariel]

I was recently listening to the Woj podcast, where he was interviewing Charlotte Hornets' new Executive VP of Basketball Operations Jeff Peterson: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-woj-pod/id1470466331?i=1000648327846

At the 20:13 mark, he says "sometimes you get a little bit of success and you think that you can skip a step to put your team in a better position in the short term success and ultimately sacrifice what's coming in the long term, so you've got to keep that North Star, you've got to know exactly what you're setting out to do in terms of your ultimate goal, and then anything between that can't jeopardize that long term goal, which for us is going to be sustainable success. I know there is the playoff drought, we don't want to make the playoffs next year and then have another drought for 5, 6, 10 years or whatever it may be, we want to consistently be a winner and a franchise that people are proud of to be associated with so it ultimately is just a reminder that we can't sacrifice the long term for making a move in the short term".

I think this is just the confirmation of what we were all expecting, which is an implicit acknowledgement that Charlotte will be tanking again next year, so the pick owed to the Spurs won't convey in the first round, but rather as 2 seconds in '26 and '27 (not even in '25 itself). Still, those should be good enough second rounders (probably in the late 30s), and though it will likely be valued as that, it has a small premium attached as it still holds a tiny chance they could make the playoffs (through the play in) and also it can still be marketed (by any receiving team to their fans) as a FRP. However, that goes down by the day, so I think it should be used as currency as soon as possible (draft night or shortly after).

Proposals:

Move up the draft: It won't get you a huge jump, but maybe a spot or two if the teams right below are keyed in any given guy, much like Indiana (7th) and Washington (8th) did last year selecting Coulibaly and Jarace Walker respectively, then trading their draft rights for a 2nd round pick. It could also include a small salary dump (by the other team), an extra 2nd round pick, etc. Possible example: the Toronto pick comes out at 9, and the Spurs jump to 7/8 to make sure no one leapfrogs them to get Dillingham (like OKC did with Dallas in order to make sure they got Cason Wallace).
Trade for a veteran player: It may be enough to get a veteran player on a short term contract in a position of need. My favorite target would be Malcom Brogdon. He was traded for a late first round pick from Indiana to Boston, then almost moved again to the Clippers for the 30th pick in the draft (fell apart due to medical concerns). Portland is said to be looking for a FRP but his value was set at a late first when he was younger and not about to enter his last contract year, so realistically his value should be closer to 2/3 SRPs, if you offer them the Charlotte pick they will likely be getting 2 projected early SRPs and at the same time be able to save face by claiming they got a first back. Add another mediocre 2nd if necessary. The Spurs would be getting a high character playmaker and scorer on and off the ball, who can run the offense himself as well as play alongside Tre Jones, or any combination.
Salary dump Zach Collins: Not my favorite use, as it'd be cheaper to do so next year when he becomes an expiring and probably can be used as salary filler outright, but if there's an unforeseen opportunity to be a player in free agency this year, this could be the most fitting trade chip to use for those purposes, likely accompanied by a couple extra 2nds (hopefully not good ones).


All in all, I think these proposals would extract more value from the pick than just letting time run its course.

[Seventyniner]

Proposals:

Move up the draft: It won't get you a huge jump, but maybe a spot or two if the teams right below are keyed in any given guy, much like Indiana (7th) and Washington (8th) did last year selecting Coulibaly and Jarace Walker respectively, then trading their draft rights for a 2nd round pick. It could also include a small salary dump (by the other team), an extra 2nd round pick, etc. Possible example: the Toronto pick comes out at 9, and the Spurs jump to 7/8 to make sure no one leapfrogs them to get Dillingham (like OKC did with Dallas in order to make sure they got Cason Wallace).
Trade for a veteran player: It may be enough to get a veteran player on a short term contract in a position of need. My favorite target would be Malcom Brogdon. He was traded for a late first round pick from Indiana to Boston, then almost moved again to the Clippers for the 30th pick in the draft (fell apart due to medical concerns). Portland is said to be looking for a FRP but his value was set at a late first when he was younger and not about to enter its last contract year, so realistically his value should be closer to 2/3 SRPs, if you offer them the Charlotte pick they will likely be getting 2 projected early SRPs and at the same time be able to say face by claiming they got a first back. Add another mediocre 2nd if necessary. The Spurs would be getting a high character playmaker and scorer on and off the ball, who can run the offense himself as well as play alongside Tre Jones, or any combination.
Salary dump Zach Collins: Not my favorite use, as it'd be cheaper to do so next year when he becomes an expiring and probably can be used as salary filler outright, but if there's an unforeseen opportunity to be a player in free agency this year, this could be the most fitting trade chip to use for those purposes, likely accompanied by a couple extra 2nds (hopefully not good ones).


All in all, I think these proposals would extract more value from the pick than just letting time run its course.

Nice list. :bobo

It won't be time to talk about moving up or down in the draft until after the lottery, but your reasoning is sound. The Spurs have enough picks stockpiled that they can aggressively go after someone if they really want him.

That's a good tidbit about the Blazers evidently being willing to trade Brogdon for the #30 pick. Perhaps they would be willing to take the Spurs' natural second, around #33-34, plus another couple of seconds.

[spurraider21]

i wouldnt give a pick just to move collins. if a sweetener is needed in order for a team to take him on in a larger trade for a better player, then we can talk about a little extra compensation

[LeBowen]

i wouldnt give a pick just to move collins. if a sweetener is needed in order for a team to take him on in a larger trade for a better player, then we can talk about a little extra compensation

He's perfect for salary matching.
Useless, but I'd rather give him DNPs than waste assets just to move him, it's not like cap space will be an issue.

Keldon+Collins should be the package if Spurs trade for a max player.

[Ignazzz]

Why would the Cavs do that?
They're trading Garland only if Mitchell stays, which doesn't look likely.
Mitchell and another undersized, bad defense guard can't really work in the playoffs.

maybe as a phantom sweetener Of loosing Mitch. „Bigger” name for making impresion all under control

[TD 21]

Trail Blazers receive: Johnson, Branham, Craptors 1st

Spurs receive: Simons

If the Spurs are not into big game hunting and don't want to rely on unproven or uninspiring (free agent) options, this could be a middle ground of sorts.

I don't know that the Trail Blazers would do it, but it'd balance their roster better, paving the way for Henderson and Sharpe to have the keys.

[Pauleta14]

Happy to see I'm not the only one wanting Brogdon...

He's the best choice (by default) imo at PG, I know there's a history of injuires but he seems ok since.

He covers all we need, veteran, solid 3pts shooter and decent playmaker



Add a rookie PG and we're good in this area

[T Park]

Trail Blazers receive: Johnson, Branham, Craptors 1st

Spurs receive: Simons

If the Spurs are not into big game hunting and don't want to rely on unproven or uninspiring (free agent) options, this could be a middle ground of sorts.

I don't know that the Trail Blazers would do it, but it'd balance their roster better, paving the way for Henderson and Sharpe to have the keys.

lol no way do the Blazers take that.

[exstatic]

Trail Blazers receive: Johnson, Branham, Craptors 1st

Spurs receive: Simons

If the Spurs are not into big game hunting and don't want to rely on unproven or uninspiring (free agent) options, this could be a middle ground of sorts.

I don't know that the Trail Blazers would do it, but it'd balance their roster better, paving the way for Henderson and Sharpe to have the keys.

Yes, let’s throw gasoline on the fire by getting a 6’3” SG who’s one of the worst defenders in the league.

[TD 21]

lol no way do the Blazers take that.

Probably not, but it's about as far (Hornets 1st) as I'd be willing to go.


Yes, let’s throw gasoline on the fire by getting a 6’3” SG who’s one of the worst defenders in the league.

He's a lead guard which has long seemed the Spurs preference over a "true" PG and as bad as he is defensively, he's mostly shared the back court with other small guard liabilities which would be mitigated here.

[objective]

Bill Simmons podcast from a few days ago brainstormed a LaMelo Ball trade to the Spurs

Hurt all the time and with a Max contract....

Not that Charlotte is even interested in moving on, but ....

Anyone more into Ball than Trae Young if the price is the same?

[Mr. Body]

Bill Simmons podcast from a few days ago brainstormed a LaMelo Ball trade to the Spurs

Hurt all the time and with a Max contract....

Not that Charlotte is even interested in moving on, but ....

Anyone more into Ball than Trae Young if the price is the same?

I legit think Popovich would gun murder LaMello Ball within two weeks. Dude plays by no structure or organization whatsoever, it's all dribble wherever and jack up whatever. How does Simmons come up with this crap.

[rankingtear]

They should get Okoro. He would look better in our system. He would go for the MLE. CLE has some upcoming cap concerns.

[exstatic]

They should get Okoro. He would look better in our system. He would go for the MLE. CLE has some upcoming cap concerns.

I wouldn’t hate it, but I’m not sure he’s better than Keldon.

[Pauleta14]

Lamelo could be a good idea... in 5-6years once he's become a grown man

Before that it's just to make Pop retire

[spursparker9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHfVMA1UNz0

[Pauleta14]

^^

This is one of the worst channels on Youtube, so many better options :)

[mo7888]

They should get Okoro. He would look better in our system. He would go for the MLE. CLE has some upcoming cap concerns.

I'd like that. His shooting is trending up and he plays real D..

[scott]

Thinking BIG, who are some realistic targets for “bigger” moves (like Trae caliber or thereabouts, or perhaps someone not quite at that level but young and promising so it still constitutes a “blockbuster” like when Indy moved Sabonis for Halliburton)? We’ve heard some folks mention Garland, Mitchell and Bridges.

We’ll have to see how the post season goes for CLE, but I don’t get the sense that they’d want to move either of those guys for picks at this juncture.

BKY might be coming around to the idea of moving Bridges, but so long as HOU owns their picks, they’re going to be in that same situation as ATL where they have no incentive to completely tear it down.

I think Lauri would be an excellent fit, but I would avoid dealing with Ainge at all costs.

Minny might be intrigued by the idea of moving KAT, but I personally wouldn’t like him on our team with Wemby.

Is there a circumstance in which BOS wants to move Brown?

DET could be interesting, do they feel like they need to move a guard? Cade or Ivey would be big moves.

OKC will likely need to move on from someone at some point… Giddy seems like the obvious man out… I’m personally not too worried about the off the court stuff given the way all of that ended up playing out, but I’m not all that excited about him unless its for a bargain. Not really a “big” move either IMO.

WTF do the Bulls do? I doubt the Spurs have any interest in Lavine, nor should they. Demar would be an interesting reunion. I’m still interested in Coby White, though that’s more of a secondary move.

Any interest in Simons? I don’t see him as a huge needle mover.

Back to BKY… I like Cam Thomas a lot as a 6th man (and a potential 6MOY candidate type). He’s a bucket, but doesn’t play D. A Cam Thomas/Cam Johnson/Mikal Bridges blockbuster would remake our team pretty quickly. SA24 + ATL25 + SA27 + SA29 + Devin + Keldon + Sochan? Feel free to roast this proposal… I’m just spitballin’.

Would love to hear some other SIGNIFICANT targets to pair with some more minor moves (like SRPs for Brogdon)

[Mr. Body]

Thinking BIG, who are some realistic targets for “bigger” moves (like Trae caliber or thereabouts, or perhaps someone not quite at that level but young and promising so it still constitutes a “blockbuster” like when Indy moved Sabonis for Halliburton)? We’ve heard some folks mention Garland, Mitchell and Bridges.


IMO those are mostly nonstarters, but I appreciate the thoughts. Bridges isn't really a great player and he's already 28. Garland is a player the Spurs can emulate with drafting Dillingham or similar (for much cheaper!). Markannen is interesting, and only 26, but Utah doesn't seem to want to move him and would expect to pull SA over the barrel if they did.

To me, trades would probably be for smaller pieces if they aren't on the timeline. And I think the Spurs aren't thinking in terms of 2-4 years, they're actually thinking in terms of the next decade.

What might work is looking at younger teams with a glut at certain positions that might be willing to balance out their rosters. You mentioned Detroit, and I'd suggest Orlando, as teams with too many guards, and they're still developing and young.

[LeBowen]

This is my estimation as things stand now.

OKC - Giddey isn't a major target and he can't shoot. I expect them to be in the running for a disgruntled star this summer.
DEN - I can actually see MPJ being moved if they don't repeat. He's not worth the money.
MIN - As you said, I think KAT and his behemoth contract need to go, but we're not a destination. Naz Reid must be our #1 priority if he becomes available due to their cap situation.
LAC - Ballmer will keep everyone despite the ridiculous tax because he's got infinite budget.
NOP - I can see a lot of retooling. Valanciunas is FA, they've got three quality SFs, but just one starting spot and one plays out of position as SG. I don't want Ingram, but if Herb or Murphy become available, should be top priority.
SAC - Will probably look to upgrade, they've got too many good players and not enough great players. Monk as a FA would be a nice addition for us. Keegan Murray would also be really nice if he becomes available.
DAL - We can only wait and see how they fuck up this summer. Nothing good for us there...until Luka asks out, that is.
PHO - The team to watch out for. I think they'll implode and KD will ask out again. He'd be perfect for us not just as a player, but as a mentor. Still, I wouldn't waste picks on a 36 year old. Booker asking out would be worth considering for us.
GSW - They're done. Kuminga if he becomes available, but that's not likely. Klay is washed and will ask for a lot. Same goes for Draymond.
LAL - Hachimura would be the only interesting target, but they'd ask for way too much. Even if by some insane turn of events Lebron is available in FA, I don't want the circus that comes with him around Wemby.
HOU - No clue, they're so random.
UTA - Markkanen would be a great fit, but Ainge isn't looking to build a winning team, but fleece other GMs. Keep away.
MEM - Keeping their core.
POR - Brogdon as you said. Jerami Grant would be a great fit, but he's already 30 and under contract up until 2028 at 30-35M a year. Stay away.

BOS - If they crumble again, I expect some moves. I don't want Brown's ridiculous contract. Bringing back Derrick would be ideal. Jrue will probably pick up the player option.
MIL - Giannis won't leave, others are too old.
CLE - Garland was my pipe dream before Trae talk started. Him and Mitchell can't play together in the playoffs, too small. If Mitchell signs a new deal, PATFO should go for Garland. If Mitchell hits FA, I don't really want him on a ridiculous contract. And then Devin would have to be traded for some legit wing players. Okoro is up for an extension and would be a good fit for us.
NYK - They've got all their picks, they'll definitely be in the running for any disgruntled star with those and Randle as a package. I'd actually consider Randle for cheap, he's on a great contract. OG is obviously a FA, but I think he agreed to stay when he got traded. If not, top priority for PATFO.
ORL - I think they're happy with their core. Maybe they look for an upgrade at shooting guard.
IND - Siakam is in the same situation as OG. Obi Toppin is a FA, would be a solid bench player for us.
MIA - Nothing that fits here.
PHI - They'll be in for a lot of moves this summer. Just Embiid and Maxey under contract. If by some crazy development they trade for a second superstar, Spurs should try get in as the third team for Maxey, but that's really unlikely to happen.
CHI - Treadmilling. Stars are too old, Lavine is trash and Coby White is untradeable. Maybe Caruso for cheap.
ATL - Everything has been said about Trae and DJ.
BRK - As you said, they can't let go of Bridges for cheap because they're fucked, more or less. And trading multiple picks for Bridges isn't a good idea.
TOR - I guess Bruce Brown if they commit to the tank. If that happens, I can also see them giving us the pick this year so they can tank.
CHO - Nothing good.
DET - Cade if he asks out, would be a great fit for us. Should be the priority if available. I feel bad for him being stuck there, he's shown that he's got a great mentality and he keeps improving.
WAS - Tyus Jones for some second rounders if we don't get a star point guard. Or if we draft a rookie point guard because I don't want Tre or a rookie starting next season. I'd say Kuzma for cheap, but then again, what for?

I don't really see any legit superstars asking out this summer barring some catastrophic developments for their teams. But it's the NBA, so who knows.
Booker looked kind of checked out over the past few games, if I had to put my money on someone, it would be him.

[scott]

Thank you for the very thorough thoughts, LeBowen!

[SpursBills]

If we're more concerned about prioritizing a return to competence and our worry is having young players develop in a losing environment, you can probably rectify that with a couple moves

1. Pay Klay. Short term 2+1 year Dillon Brooks/FVV style contract, 40 million a year or something absurd. Gives you spacing, more importantly movement spacing, a vet presence with championship experience. Who cares if he's not worth his contract, it's purely for development anyway and make Wemby's life easier, plus you give up zero assets
2. (Shoutout Ariel) Trade for Deni Avdija. Toronto pick, Chicago pick, Keldon Johnson. Washington's front office aren't incompetent anymore, but I think they probably still think hard about this deal. Deni gives you defense, positional size, and playmaking from the forward/wing spot and he's about to start one of the best value contracts in the league
3. Draft Reed Sheppard this year. Not the sexiest pick, but gives you elite shooting as well as the ability to toggle between on-ball and off-ball roles. Plus if he hits his unlikely upside of Haliburton you're really cooking

For the next 2 years, you're rolling out a lineup of Sheppard-Vassell-Klay-Deni-Wemby. That's potentially 3 elite shooters including at least 1 movement shooter in Klay, a very good shooter in Deni, and Wemby. Sochan moves to the bench for a couple years and develops his ball handling chops from the bench by helping run the second unit. Sheppard can't be a full time initiator, but ball handling is spread between him, Deni (who can act as initiator), an improving Vassell, and Wemby. You've got a balanced roster with an old vet in Klay, 2 young-ish vets in Vassell/Deni, Wemby, and a mature rookie in Sheppard.

This probably allows you to at least compete for a play-in spot without giving up too many assets, including none of your Hawks picks or your own picks. Meanwhile, you try and improve Deni's shooting volume as well as Sochan's all-around game. I still believe in Sochan, so the goal would be for him to slide into Klay's spot in 2 years and role out a front court lineup of Sochan/Deni/Wemby which gives you good positional size and defense as well as playmaking. Sochan also plays on the bench next to Barlow which gives you two guys you can develop in the front court who are decent defenders.

Continue drafting wings in 2025 and beyond so that if Sochan doesn't work out, you have talent that can slide into his position. Your own draft picks will still be late-lotto to mid-first bad, but at least your team has some semblance of competence and spacing. It also allows you to keep most of your best assets while still having youth that you can develop.

[CGD]

Im lukewarm on Trae and Garland, which feel like the only big name PGs that could move in the next 10 months if certain things fall in place (e.g., Mitchell stays a CAV).

But I absolutely would approach DET about one of their lead guards this summer. For example, if they get bad luck again and draw #5 and SAS get #3, can they sell two top 5 picks (plus whatever else the Spurs send) to their fanbase for one of Cade or Ivey?

[JeffDuncan]

…
UTA - Markkanen would be a great fit, …



Doubt it. He can score, and get some rebounds, since he’s tall, but of the top 50 scorers in the NBA, Markkanen has the lowest assist number. Further, his current 2.0 assists per game is the highest of his career. Only Porzingis has an equally low assist number. Even Jaren Jackson Jr is better for assists.

The best teammates for Wemby are players who will look to pass to him when he’s in position to score. So a history of good assist numbers is a factor to emphasize. In his seventh season now, Markkanen’s history for assists is virtually zilch.

Overall, you have many good comments. This is not a general criticism of your post.

[spurraider21]

Doubt it. He can score, and get some rebounds, since he’s tall, but of the top 50 scorers in the NBA, Markkanen has the lowest assist number. Further, his current 2.0 assists per game is the highest of his career. Only Porzingis has an equally low assist number. Even Jaren Jackson Jr is better for assists.

The best teammates for Wemby are players who will look to pass to him when he’s in position to score. So a history of good assist numbers is a factor to emphasize. In his seventh season now, Markkanen’s history for assists is virtually zilch.

Overall, you have many good comments. This is not a general criticism of your post.
playmaking and getting assists would not be the expectation of markkanen in a spurs jersey. he is the release valve that prevents defenses from over-committing to wemby. with his height and release its very hard to challenge his shot, especially if you are trying to close out from too far way. he's also a good scorer when he puts the ball on the floor off of closeouts, and a great free throw shooter. on a spurs team that is just dreadful offensively at times, you need guys that are just bucket getters.

think of what klay provided for the warriors, even though curry and green were the playmakers

lauri would be great, but i dont see the spurs pulling the trigger

[scott]

Yeah, I think Lauri would be one of the best fits, but like LeBowen stated, stay away from Ainge. He will fuck your wife and steal your children.

[JeffDuncan]

playmaking and getting assists would not be the expectation of markkanen in a spurs jersey. he is the release valve that prevents defenses from over-committing to wemby. …



The reason for wanting to draw defenders away from Wemby is so that Wemby, himself, will have a better chance to receive the ball for a dunk. But by his history, Markkanen will take the shot instead of passing. Markkanen will never shoot well enough to beat the efficiency of a Wemby dunk. That’s the issue.

[spurraider21]

The reason for wanting to draw defenders away from Wemby is so that Wemby, himself, will have a better chance to receive the ball for a dunk. But by his history, Markkanen will take the shot instead of passing. Markkanen will never shoot well enough to beat the efficiency of a Wemby dunk. That’s the issue.
by his history, markkanen's 3 point shot is one of the most efficient shots in basketball

[JeffDuncan]

by his history, markkanen's 3 point shot is one of the most efficient shots in basketball


So you want to trade Wemby for Markkanen. You say?

Markkanen is a career .375 3pt shooter. Call it 38%. Per 100 3pt shots, Markkanen will hit 38 and score 114 pts.

Within 3 ft of the basket this year Wemby is shooting .731. Call it 73%. Per 100 shots close to the basket, Wemby will score 146 pts.

Wemby wins. Easily. No contest. If you allow Markkanen 40% he’ll score 120 and it’s still no contest.

Even tho the team needs 3pt shooting, it needs the kind who will be aware of passing opportunities to Wemby. Wemby’s shooting, close to the basket, will beat 3pt shooting.

[scott]

So you want to trade Wemby for Markkanen. You say?

Markkanen is a career .375 3pt shooter. Call it 38%. Per 100 3pt shots, Markkanen will hit 38 and score 114 pts.

Within 3 ft of the basket this year Wemby is shooting .731. Call it 73%. Per 100 shots close to the basket, Wemby will score 146 pts.

Wemby wins. Easily. No contest. If you allow Markkanen 40% he’ll score 120 and it’s still no contest.

Even tho the team needs 3pt shooting, it needs the kind who will be aware of passing opportunities to Wemby. Wemby’s shooting, close to the basket, will beat 3pt shooting.

Golly, we should just have Wemby shoot within 3 ft of the basket for 48 minutes. We’d be unbeatable!

[exstatic]

by his history, markkanen's 3 point shot is one of the most efficient shots in basketball

markkanen is a career 38% from three. Victor shoots 73% inside of 3 feet. Give them both 100 tries, and LM scores 114 points to Victor’s 146.

[exstatic]

Golly, we should just have Wemby shoot within 3 ft of the basket for 48 minutes. We’d be unbeatable!

The post that was quoted and responded to mentioned dunks. He was the one saying that Markkanen’s 3 ball was more efficient.

[spurraider21]

So you want to trade Wemby for Markkanen.
yes that’s exactly what i said


markkanen is a career 38% from three. Victor shoots 73% inside of 3 feet. Give them both 100 tries, and LM scores 114 points to Victor’s 146.
the assumption here is that every markkanen 3 pointer comes at the expense of a Victor fga in the restricted area

[TDMVPDPOY]

get mike conley

[tbdog]

get mike conley

Signed an extension with a no trade clause

[The Truth #6]

Has this AM Hoops video been posted? Initially I assumed his channel was awful just by the way he talks, but it surprised me in a good way. Well written, well edited segments. He used to be a local media guy.

Anyway, his point is to wait for the next big superstar to want out and go that route, because it is sort of the trend and the spurs would be in a good position. It's not a bad approach.

Edit: JFC. Wrong link. This is it: https://youtu.be/PHfVMA1UNz0?si=dl7cEBiSVEVAmGWA

[Splits]

Can we trade Cedi's hair? His hair is gorgeous rn. It just flowwwwsss

[JeffDuncan]

…
the assumption here is that every markkanen 3 pointer comes at the expense of a Victor fga in the restricted area


Nope. The assumption is that if Markkanen has a chance to shoot a 3pt-er, while Wemby has a chance at a dunk, Markkanen will shoot instead of passing, which is the losing choice. That assumption is based directly on Markkanen’s very low assist rate over his entire career. He would not be a good fit with Wemby.

[spurraider21]

Nope. The assumption is that if Markkanen has a chance to shoot a 3pt-er, while Wemby has a chance at a dunk, Markkanen will shoot instead of passing, which is the losing choice. That assumption is based directly on Markkanen’s very low assist rate over his entire career. He would not be a good fit with Wemby.
if you just look at and say low assist rate bad then wouldnt that mean markkanen is a poor fit with literally anybody else who can score? i mean yeah, if markkanen starts crossing over and taking pull up step back 3's while wemby has a guy sealed in the restricted area, id say thats bad. i dont think he's that type of player though. 98% of his 3 pointers this year are assisted. his outside shooting comes within the flow and structure of offense

[pad300]

Nope. The assumption is that if Markkanen has a chance to shoot a 3pt-er, while Wemby has a chance at a dunk, Markkanen will shoot instead of passing, which is the losing choice. That assumption is based directly on Markkanen’s very low assist rate over his entire career. He would not be a good fit with Wemby.

If that's your assumption, then your math is wrong.
Probable Points (Markannen) = P(M 3 pt %)*3 = .38*3 = .114, yep.
but
Probable Points (Wemby) = P(W within 3 ft %)*P(successful pass, M to W)*2 = .73*(X)*2

If X is <.781, the team is better off if Markannen shoots...

[TD 21]

Since the Knicks have already proven to not be overly interested in Mitchell and the only other glamor market with the assets to get him is probably the Nets, who have no clear path to championship contention, maybe he re-signs after all.

Give the Cavaliers a chance to form a more sensible roster around him, then ask out in a few years when that fails to yield a championship and the landscape in the league has changed.

If so . . .

To Cavaliers: Murphy III, Jones, Graham, Hornets 1st, either Bulls 1st or Hawks '27 1st . . . halfway to more sensible roster, add needed draft capital and make it easier to extend Okoro.

To Pelicans: Wade and Craptors 1st . . . get ahead of looming tax and possible chemistry issues, add reasonable facsimile and more draft capital.

To Spurs: Garland . . . injury prone and overrated, but would be put in position to reclaim fringe star status here playing on ball and without two non shooting bigs.

Before anyone says they'd rather just trade for Murphy III instead of Garland, I don't get the sense he's their type of personality and they'll probably utilize the natural pick on a forward.

[exstatic]

Since the Knicks have already proven to not be overly interested in Mitchell and the only other glamor market with the assets to get him is probably the Nets, who have no clear path to championship contention, maybe he re-signs after all.

Give the Cavaliers a chance to form a more sensible roster around him, then ask out in a few years when that fails to yield a championship and the landscape in the league has changed.

If so . . .

To Cavaliers: Murphy III, Jones, Graham, either Bulls 1st or Hawks '27 1st . . . halfway to more sensible roster, add needed draft equity and make it easier to extend Okoro.

To Pelicans: Wade, Craptors 1st and Hornets 1st . . . get ahead of looming tax and possible chemistry issues, add reasonable facsimile and more draft equity.

To Spurs: Garland . . . injury prone and overrated, but would be put in position to reclaim fringe star status here playing on ball and without two non shooting bigs.

Before anyone says they'd rather just trade for Murphy III instead of Garland, I don't get the sense he's their type of personality and they'll probably utilize the natural pick on a forward.

I’d rather have Jones than Garland.

[mo7888]

Since the Knicks have already proven to not be overly interested in Mitchell and the only other glamor market with the assets to get him is probably the Nets, who have no clear path to championship contention, maybe he re-signs after all.

Give the Cavaliers a chance to form a more sensible roster around him, then ask out in a few years when that fails to yield a championship and the landscape in the league has changed.

If so . . .

To Cavaliers: Murphy III, Jones, Graham, Hornets 1st, either Bulls 1st or Hawks '27 1st . . . halfway to more sensible roster, add needed draft capital and make it easier to extend Okoro.

To Pelicans: Wade and Craptors 1st . . . get ahead of looming tax and possible chemistry issues, add reasonable facsimile and more draft capital.

To Spurs: Garland . . . injury prone and overrated, but would be put in position to reclaim fringe star status here playing on ball and without two non shooting bigs.

Before anyone says they'd rather just trade for Murphy III instead of Garland, I don't get the sense he's their type of personality and they'll probably utilize the natural pick on a forward.

Although, I'm not a big Garland guy, I think that's a pretty fair trade and I'd MUCH rather do that than pay the ransom everyone here seems to think it'll take to get TY.

[Knoxxx]

I want to take a second to paddle anyone that thought Utah would actually trade Lauri M to us and a side paddle to anyone that only replied with (I like Lauri…)

I don’t see a snowballs chance of that happening?

[scott]

I want to take a second to paddle anyone that thought Utah would actually trade Lauri M to us and a side paddle to anyone that only replied with (I like Lauri…)

I don’t see a snowballs chance of that happening?

I mean, I might like Lauri more than anyone... but even I caveat every discussion about him with the disclaimer that I wouldn't even talk to Ainge in an exploratory manner, he'll find a way to steal a future FRP from you just by picking up the phone.

[mo7888]

I mean, I might like Lauri more than anyone... but even I caveat every discussion about him with the disclaimer that I wouldn't even talk to Ainge in an exploratory manner, he'll find a way to steal a future FRP from you just by picking up the phone.

I've never understood the fear of dealing with Ainge some have here. I get it that he likes to bend people over in trades, but there's a solution to that. Just offer what you think 'player x'' is worth, and if he wants the moon, just day 'no thanks'. I'd never shy away from a deal because of who the GM is, I just wouldn't accept a bad deal...

[scott]

I've never understood the fear of dealing with Ainge some have here. I get it that he likes to bend people over in trades, but there's a solution to that. Just offer what you think 'player x'' is worth, and if he wants the moon, just day 'no thanks'. I'd never shy away from a deal because of who the GM is, I just wouldn't accept a bad deal...

mo, you gotta understand... talking to Danny Ainge is like Sydney Sweeny asking you if you can help her move. You don't want to... and you know you can just say no... but you never say no. Then you end up throwing your back out lifting a couch, but you don't want to show any weakness in front of Sydney Sweeny so you just keep lifting boxes. You and Sydney share a few laughs, and you think you are really connecting... then she gives you a slice of pizza and two room temperature beers and tells you that she has to go because her and her BF have dinner reservations but thanks for all your help!

There is no escaping Danny Ainge's sweet talking. Just don't pick up the phone. Best to block his number.

[CGD]

^ since when has Ainge been a sweet talker? He’s more of a loan shark who aggressively takes advantage of the helpless or hapless: most recently Minnesota Timberwolves new management team.

[mo7888]

mo, you gotta understand... talking to Danny Ainge is like Sydney Sweeny asking you if you can help her move. You don't want to... and you know you can just say no... but you never say no. Then you end up throwing your back out lifting a couch, but you don't want to show any weakness in front of Sydney Sweeny so you just keep lifting boxes. You and Sydney share a few laughs, and you think you are really connecting... then she gives you a slice of pizza and two room temperature beers and tells you that she has to go because her and her BF have dinner reservations but thanks for all your help!

There is no escaping Danny Ainge's sweet talking. Just don't pick up the phone. Best to block his number.

Lol... I do appreciate the analogy. For me though (a guy who negotiates much more than most on pretty large deals) I just don't think that way and I don't react that way.

Maybe I should be more self reflective. Maybe I'm the Danny Ainge in my world lol (joking)...

[scott]

Lol... I do appreciate the analogy. For me though (a guy who negotiates much more than most on pretty large deals) I just don't think that way and I don't react that way.

Maybe I should be more self reflective. Maybe I'm the Danny Ainge in my world lol (joking)...

In all seriousness, I negotiate a lot of deals too - but largely with folks I do repeated deals with. So I take the approach that I think the Spurs likely also take... they're okay leaving a lit bit on the table if it's a fair deal that both sides will leave happy with and is symbiotic. I think Ainge is more like the cut-throat/extract every last ounce of value out of the other side kind of negotiator. Of course the Spurs can always say no, which is the more realistic scenario... so what I'm really trying to say is that I think it's unlikely the Spurs could work a deal with Ainge, because (to their credit) the Spurs don't seem like they're in the business of getting screwed over in deals.

[mo7888]

In all seriousness, I negotiate a lot of deals too - but largely with folks I do repeated deals with. So I take the approach that I think the Spurs likely also take... they're okay leaving a lit bit on the table if it's a fair deal that both sides will leave happy with and is symbiotic. I think Ainge is more like the cut-throat/extract every last ounce of value out of the other side kind of negotiator. Of course the Spurs can always say no, which is the more realistic scenario... so what I'm really trying to say is that I think it's unlikely the Spurs could work a deal with Ainge, because (to their credit) the Spurs don't seem like they're in the business of getting screwed over in deals.

I agree with you. I always try and leave a little something on the table. I go in with the philosophy that if everyone doesn't walk away from the table with something they can feel good about, then it was a bad deal.

I also agree that it isn't likely that there's a deal to be made with Utah, but I'd still explore it and do my due diligence (if Lauri or somebody else there interested me). If there's no deal I'm walking away with more knowledge than i had going in....and that sets me up for a future win somewhere else...

[Knoxxx]

When I trade in fantasy football I always look at what the other team needs and offer a fair deal that clearly makes both teams better, good for repeat business. But don’t always start with my best offer of course.

[mo7888]

I've posted it a couple times in the past but, I'm consolidating it into 1 post here. These are my potential FA and Trade targets this summer. Obviously, cost varies widely, but if we could get 2 players that complement Wemby out of this and have a good draft I'd consider it a successful summer.

Trade Targets
Trae Young $40M 3 years
Deni Avdija $15.6 4 years
Naz Reid $13.9 2 years po
Cason Wallace $5.5 3 years
Herbert Jones $12.9 3 years
Nick Smith Jr $2.5M 3 years
Trey Murphy III $5.1M 1 year + QO/NC
Isaiah Joe $2.1M 1 year

Issac Okoro
Paul George
James Harden
Grayson Allen
Malik Monk
Tobias Harris
Caleb Martin
Jalen Smith

[Twisted_Dawg]

If we have any member of our front office that us afraid to negotiate with Ainge, then that gutless, weak, incompetent m'fer needs to be run out of town.

[objective]

Tobias Harris has had a terrible season, has disappeared during embiid's injury, and had 76ers fans campaigning for him to be benched. He's never drawn a charge in 6 seasons with Philadelphia.

He'll be 32 this summer, declining, and be about the worst possible signing at anything more than mle type money. If Wright (and RC and Pop and whoever) sign him, that's the beginning of the end

[exstatic]

Tobias Harris has had a terrible season, has disappeared during embiid's injury, and had 76ers fans campaigning for him to be benched. He's never drawn a charge in 6 seasons with Philadelphia.

He'll be 32 this summer, declining, and be about the worst possible signing at anything more than mle type money. If Wright (and RC and Pop and whoever) sign him, that's the beginning of the end

We don’t need him to be an All star, we just need him to defend his position, and hit open 3s. He’s not a creator, but needs to play off of a gravity player, which we have. That’s probably why he’s struggled, post Embiid. If they’re disenchanted with him, that’s good for us. They won’t be throwing another stupid offer at him.

Boris Diaw’s career was in the garbage when we signed him. You probably wouldn’t have wanted him, either. Reclamation projects are how you keep you cap/tax figure under control.

[spurraider21]

our starting SF is a gleague talent and people are looking at an established player like tobias harris and worrying about his pointy elbows

[aissagholi7981]

Contrary to what people believe, I could see the Spurs moving Sochan to the SF spot next year. He just isn't big enough for the PF position:

Trae / Tre
Vassell / Wesley
Sohan/Risacher
Barrlow? / Johnson
Wemby / Collins

[objective]

We don’t need him to be an All star, we just need him to defend his position, and hit open 3s. He’s not a creator, but needs to play off of a gravity player, which we have. That’s probably why he’s struggled, post Embiid. If they’re disenchanted with him, that’s good for us. They won’t be throwing another stupid offer at him.

Boris Diaw’s career was in the garbage when we signed him. You probably wouldn’t have wanted him, either. Reclamation projects are how you keep you cap/tax figure under control.

Spurs got Diaw super cheap, and if I remember right the first deal was a minimum after a buyout, then a second 2/9 deal that was under the MLE.

If you think Tobias Harris is signing for a minimum 1 year deal, or a 2/18 deal that would be similar to back then proportionally, then that would be one thing. But that's probably not happening

[tbdog]

Contrary to what people believe, I could see the Spurs moving Sochan to the SF spot next year. He just isn't big enough for the PF position:

Trae / Tre
Vassell / Wesley
Sohan/Risacher
Barrlow? / Johnson
Wemby / Collins

Yeah, I agree that Sochan guards smaller players better than big ones, but promoting Barrow is a backwards step. Spurs should look at starting material players. Even stop gap solutions. Tyus Jones, Fultz, Anunoby, Monk, Bruce Brown, Patrick Williams, Buddy Hield, Royce O'Neale, Caleb Martin, Gary Trent Jr, Jalen Smith, Achiuwa

There are plenty of rotational players to be had to replace some of our youths that are just on the treadmill, like Brenham or Wesley, Mamu, Barrlow, Bassey. Then there is the regulation of Osman, Zach Collins and Champagnie to consider.

Spurs could look at DeRozan or Kyle Anderson if Johnson is moved to upgrade a spot in the rotation.

Then there is a draft, potentially 3 rookies (Spurs 1st, Tor 1st, Spurs 2nd)

It is going to be a busy free agency. I think at minimum, Graham and Manu will be out, likely replaced with one rookie. I think Bassey might be out too as he is unlikely going to play next season anyway due to the ACL injury. Zach Collins/Osman/Johnson are the vets that might be shopped for better fits or upgrades. Wesley and Branham are on the treadmill and will likely stick around for another season. Cissoko will get a look in the pre season games to see how his shot falls with a full offseason of shooting.

[exstatic]

Spurs got Diaw super cheap, and if I remember right the first deal was a minimum after a buyout, then a second 2/9 deal that was under the MLE.

If you think Tobias Harris is signing for a minimum 1 year deal, or a 2/18 deal that would be similar to back then proportionally, then that would be one thing. But that's probably not happening

He’s not getting 25. The market isn’t there. I’ve said somewhere between MLE and 20, 3 years.

[exstatic]

Yeah, I agree that Sochan guards smaller players better than big ones, but promoting Barrow is a backwards step. Spurs should look at starting material players. Even stop gap solutions. Tyus Jones, Fultz, Anunoby, Monk, Bruce Brown, Patrick Williams, Buddy Hield, Royce O'Neale, Caleb Martin, Gary Trent Jr, Jalen Smith, Achiuwa

There are plenty of rotational players to be had to replace some of our youths that are just on the treadmill, like Brenham or Wesley, Mamu, Barrlow, Bassey. Then there is the regulation of Osman, Zach Collins and Champagnie to consider.

Spurs could look at DeRozan or Kyle Anderson if Johnson is moved to upgrade a spot in the rotation.

Then there is a draft, potentially 3 rookies (Spurs 1st, Tor 1st, Spurs 2nd)

It is going to be a busy free agency. I think at minimum, Graham and Manu will be out, likely replaced with one rookie. I think Bassey might be out too as he is unlikely going to play next season anyway due to the ACL injury. Zach Collins/Osman/Johnson are the vets that might be shopped for better fits or upgrades. Wesley and Branham are on the treadmill and will likely stick around for another season. Cissoko will get a look in the pre season games to see how his shot falls with a full offseason of shooting.

Naw, he was injured so early, he’ll play next year. I think they said he’ll be in training camp.

[objective]

He’s not getting 25. The market isn’t there. I’ve said somewhere between MLE and 20, 3 years.

I *think* I've heard talk in pistons circles about 4/100 because they have ludicrous cap room. Just fan speculation but believable

[baseline bum]

Kind of funny seeing everyone on Laurie's dick when no one wanted him even in trade for DeRozan in 21 when he walked to Chicago. Not that I really wanted him then either.

[TD 21]

Gilbert (Cavaliers owner) claimed this week that they're confident Mitchell will re-sign.

2024 Offseason Trade Ideas for NBA's Most Hopeless Teams | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10114438-2024-offseason-trade-ideas-for-nbas-most-hopeless-teams)

If they were going to go down this road, I'd rather . . .

To Cavaliers: Johnson (Cavaliers almost selected him in draft, but went Windler at last second), Jones, Craptors 1st, Hornets 1st.

To Spurs: Garland

[spurraider21]

Kind of funny seeing everyone on Laurie's dick when no one wanted him even in trade for DeRozan in 21 when he walked to Chicago. Not that I really wanted him then either.
well he's broken out since then

[Atl Spur]

Kind of funny seeing everyone on Laurie's dick when no one wanted him even in trade for DeRozan in 21 when he walked to Chicago. Not that I really wanted him then either.

Actually I did…….check the receipts.

[Atl Spur]

Lavine + Bulls 2024 1st - Spurs
Zollins + Tre ( expiring )+ Devonte graham ( expiring )+ Both 2024 seconds + Bulls 2025 first & second + Hornets 1st - Bulls

Keep all the Hawks picks as well as our own.

[MultiTroll]

leaving a lit bit on the table if it's a fair deal that both sides will leave happy with and is symbiotic.


I agree with you. I always try and leave a little something on the table. I go in with the philosophy that if everyone doesn't walk away from the table with something they can feel good about, then it was a bad deal...
Have you guys been able to inculcate this into your romantic relationships also? :lol

[MultiTroll]

Lavine
Not sure how well modern sports medicine can predict how well a post op will hold up.
But he strikes me as being a twist away from another catostrophic injury.
3 years at 45 million i don't like it.

[CGD]

Gilbert (Cavaliers owner) claimed this week that they're confident Mitchell will re-sign.

2024 Offseason Trade Ideas for NBA's Most Hopeless Teams | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10114438-2024-offseason-trade-ideas-for-nbas-most-hopeless-teams)

If they were going to go down this road, I'd rather . . .

To Cavaliers: Johnson (Cavaliers almost selected him in draft, but went Windler at last second), Jones, Craptors 1st, Hornets 1st.

To Spurs: Garland

I like it, but with their formulation that has Malaki (with the Cleveland connection) over sending Tre out. Garland has had a down year, and seems to have struggled figuring out his place next to Mitchell.

I personally prefer Garland to Young if I’m being honest.

[scott]

Have you guys been able to inculcate this into your romantic relationships also? :lol

Leave even more on the table there... only way to stay married :lol

[sfernald]

I agree with you. I always try and leave a little something on the table. I go in with the philosophy that if everyone doesn't walk away from the table with something they can feel good about, then it was a bad deal.

I also agree that it isn't likely that there's a deal to be made with Utah, but I'd still explore it and do my due diligence (if Lauri or somebody else there interested me). If there's no deal I'm walking away with more knowledge than i had going in....and that sets me up for a future win somewhere else...

Me, I like to rape em! Only book I've ever read is Trump's Art of the Deal!

[mo7888]

Have you guys been able to inculcate this into your romantic relationships also? :lol

Been married for 35 years.... I can't even remember everything I 'incorporated', but whatever it was, it seems to be working..

[mo7888]

Me, I like to rape em! Only book I've ever read is Trump's Art of the Deal!

My condolences...

[buttsR4rebounding]

Been married for 35 years.... I can't even remember everything I 'incorporated', but whatever it was, it seems to be working..

43 years here…next weekend my parents celebrate their 66th anniversary. When we celebrated our 40th my Dad told me “Nice start”.

[mo7888]

43 years here…next weekend my parents celebrate their 66th anniversary. When we celebrated our 40th my Dad told me “Nice start”.

Very nice...

[TD 21]

I like it, but with their formulation that has Malaki (with the Cleveland connection) over sending Tre out. Garland has had a down year, and seems to have struggled figuring out his place next to Mitchell.

I personally prefer Garland to Young if I’m being honest.

The thing with Jones is, if the Spurs are acquiring a small guard that's a star (Young) or top starter (Garland) . . .

1) He'd be relegated to strictly backing them up, a role he's outgrown

2) As a '25 free agent and considering the rising cost and diminished role, why would him or the Spurs want to invest in one another long term?

3) The opposing team could have interest as he'd represent quality backfill as a third guard.

[Twisted_Dawg]

Been married for 35 years.... I can't even remember everything I 'incorporated', but whatever it was, it seems to be working..


43 years here…next weekend my parents celebrate their 66th anniversary. When we celebrated our 40th my Dad told me “Nice start”.

I've been married 30 years....to two different women!

[CGD]

The thing with Jones is, if the Spurs are acquiring a small guard that's a star (Young) or top starter (Garland) . . .

1) He'd be relegated to strictly backing them up, a role he's outgrown

2) As a '25 free agent and considering the rising cost and diminished role, why would him or the Spurs want to invest in one another long term?

3) The opposing team could have interest as he'd represent quality backfill as a third guard.

It’s perfectly fine if Tre and the spurs go their separate ways after his deal expires next summer in my view, but I also take the point that his value is probably at its highest this summer.

Tre tops out as a backup on a good team, so I wonder what his market will be in 2025. Could be the spurs are able to keep him in that backup role beyond this deal, but it’s also no accident it was a short term deal. What we DONT want is to have the PG position still an open question by then, with the spurs feeling they have to overpay to keep Tre.

[baseline bum]

In all seriousness, I negotiate a lot of deals too - but largely with folks I do repeated deals with. So I take the approach that I think the Spurs likely also take... they're okay leaving a lit bit on the table if it's a fair deal that both sides will leave happy with and is symbiotic. I think Ainge is more like the cut-throat/extract every last ounce of value out of the other side kind of negotiator. Of course the Spurs can always say no, which is the more realistic scenario... so what I'm really trying to say is that I think it's unlikely the Spurs could work a deal with Ainge, because (to their credit) the Spurs don't seem like they're in the business of getting screwed over in deals.

Meh the Kawhi deal extracted every last ounce from the Spurs while they couldn't even pry Anunoby out of Masai and the Raptors ended up with the two best players in the trade. I hope they don't take it easy on any team they have bent over a barrel the same way Toronto went in with no vaseline in 2018.

[The Truth #6]

I'm not a huge fan of DDR but I think he was a better player than Green as far as an asset, right?

[JeffDuncan]

If that's your assumption, then your math is wrong.
Probable Points (Markannen) = P(M 3 pt %)*3 = .38*3 = .114, yep.
but
Probable Points (Wemby) = P(W within 3 ft %)*P(successful pass, M to W)*2 = .73*(X)*2

If X is <.781, the team is better off if Markannen shoots...


I forgot about this discussion, and just noticed it again.

Your use of the decimal point makes no sense, because points scored is a whole number. A basket is not worth .002 points, it’s 2. I’ll correct that. It’s your factor X that needs the decimal point, for this to make sense. (Speaking of somebody’s math being wrong. It’s “probable” a player will score 0.114 points?? That doesn’t look probable to me.)

So, let’s take a look. The first thing is, you introduced X without any attempt to evaluate it. You assume X is less than .781 but you make no attempt to show that. You don’t know how, perhaps.

Markkanen has a turnover rate, TOV%, of 7.1 (which is quite low.) That includes not only bad passes, but times when he dribbles off his foot, etc.

But say it’s all bad passes. For what we’re doing here, we can round that number and call it .07. (Changed from % to simply a decimal number.)

1.00-.07=.93. And .93 is higher than .781. Not lower.

You assumed (without checking) X had to be less than .781 but it isn’t. It’s higher.

The pass to Wemby is still the correct move.

Then, how much worse would Markkanen’s TOV% have to become, in attempted passes to Wemby, to make the pass the wrong move? Still taking the entire TOV% to be bad passes, which we know is not really the case.

1.00 - .78 = .22. As we know, 22 is more than three times 7. He’d have to become more than three times as bad at passing to Wemby, compared to his normal turnover rate. Pretty dubious.

The problem with Markkanen, as a prospective teammate for Wemby, isn’t that he’s a bad passer. It’s that he isn’t inclined to pass at all, when he gets a look at the basket, himself.

[CGD]

I'm not a huge fan of DDR but I think he was a better player than Green as far as an asset, right?

By far

[The Truth #6]

Big picture, what players might we trade? Seems like Keldon only. Not sure if teams want Zollins, nor we move on with no other center who the FO trust, despite his challenges this year. Of course we have draft picks but keeping them seems part of the long-term plan. Basically, curious to see if they make any moves. It feels they have to get 1-2 veterans.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Big picture, what players might we trade? Seems like Keldon only. Not sure if teams want Zollins, nor we move on with no other center who the FO trust, despite his challenges this year. Of course we have draft picks but keeping them seems part of the long-term plan. Basically, curious to see if they make any moves. It feels they have to get 1-2 veterans.

Just because they haven’t traded draft picks yet doesn’t mean it’s not part of the plan. In fact I’d be surprised if it isn’t part of the plan. The Spurs just have too many draft picks to even think about keeping them all. Being patient is not the same as not having a plan to use the picks.

[The Truth #6]

Just because they haven’t traded draft picks yet doesn’t mean it’s not part of the plan. In fact I’d be surprised if it isn’t part of the plan. The Spurs just have too many draft picks to even think about keeping them all. Being patient is not the same as not having a plan to use the picks.

To clarify I was thinking this Summer. I imagine they hold on to draft picks, waiting for a suitable star to force a trade, which has an uncertain time frame.

[CGD]

Big picture, what players might we trade? Seems like Keldon only. Not sure if teams want Zollins, nor we move on with no other center who the FO trust, despite his challenges this year. Of course we have draft picks but keeping them seems part of the long-term plan. Basically, curious to see if they make any moves. It feels they have to get 1-2 veterans.

We all want the splashy trade for a PG, but I think it’s more likely that they bring in a few vets to upgrade at:

1. Starting SF: Thobias, Hayward?
2. Back up SF/PF: Batum?
3. PG: Monte Morris?

And then they draft the best SF they can and develop that guy. I’m kinda resigned to idea that we won’t get the TOR pick this year, which is fine by me.

Goal next year: Play-in; preserve chance at maximum number of lotto picks, even if they’re later in the draft.

[mo7888]

Big picture, what players might we trade? Seems like Keldon only. Not sure if teams want Zollins, nor we move on with no other center who the FO trust, despite his challenges this year. Of course we have draft picks but keeping them seems part of the long-term plan. Basically, curious to see if they make any moves. It feels they have to get 1-2 veterans.

If the question is 'might trade', i think Wembanyama is the only untouchable. Devin and Sochan probably won't be brought into discussion by our side and everyone else is going to be in various discussions with other teams.

[pad300]

I forgot about this discussion, and just noticed it again.

Your use of the decimal point makes no sense, because points scored is a whole number. A basket is not worth .002 points, it’s 2. I’ll correct that. It’s your factor X that needs the decimal point, for this to make sense. (Speaking of somebody’s math being wrong. It’s “probable” a player will score 0.114 points?? That doesn’t look probable to me.)

So, let’s take a look. The first thing is, you introduced X without any attempt to evaluate it. You assume X is less than .781 but you make no attempt to show that. You don’t know how, perhaps.

Markkanen has a turnover rate, TOV%, of 7.1 (which is quite low.) That includes not only bad passes, but times when he dribbles off his foot, etc.

But say it’s all bad passes. For what we’re doing here, we can round that number and call it .07. (Changed from % to simply a decimal number.)

1.00-.07=.93. And .93 is higher than .781. Not lower.

You assumed (without checking) X had to be less than .781 but it isn’t. It’s higher.

The pass to Wemby is still the correct move.

Then, how much worse would Markkanen’s TOV% have to become, in attempted passes to Wemby, to make the pass the wrong move? Still taking the entire TOV% to be bad passes, which we know is not really the case.

1.00 - .78 = .22. As we know, 22 is more than three times 7. He’d have to become more than three times as bad at passing to Wemby, compared to his normal turnover rate. Pretty dubious.

The problem with Markkanen, as a prospective teammate for Wemby, isn’t that he’s a bad passer. It’s that he isn’t inclined to pass at all, when he gets a look at the basket, himself.

I will admit, I typo'ed. That should be 1.14 not .114.

With that said, your logic is wrong. The inverse (1-TOV%) of Markkannen's TOV% is not an appropriate estimate of P(successful pass, M to W).

TOV% adds up several different kinds of turnovers. 1) Where he loses control of ball when dribbling (or gets the ball stolen). 2) Where he commits a offensive foul or other rules infraction (eg stepping out of bounds) and 3) When he makes a bad pass that is intercepted...

3) is the fraction of passes that Markannen thinks are best option available to him (ie choosing that particular pass instead of shooting, dribbling, or making a different pass), that he then fails to complete.

Markkannen has that nice low TOV% because most the time, when he has the ball in his hands, he's either shooting, or has 2 steps to the rim (and thus doesn't dribble); as you admit, he isn't inclined to pass. There's a reason he doesn't make a bunch of passes. Part of that low inclination to pass is his own assessment of how likely he is to make a successful pass (that is more valuable than him doing something else: shooting, mostly). Most of the passes he attempts are pretty simple - giving it to his PG after securing a rebound (while the other team is running back to defend). He doesn't throw post entry passes often (or attacking passes in general; his career assist percentage is 7.4%).

The probability of how successful Markkannen would be making a notional pass to Wemby at the hoop is independent of his TOV%; because if he thinks he can't make that pass (or has a low chance of making it), whether his thinking's right or wrong, obviously he won't throw it...

Although I doubt Markkannen thinks about it in decimal notation, for him to try that pass, he has to assess that passing to Wemby will get the team more points than him shooting it. In other words, (assuming the shooting percentages as given), that P(successful pass, M to W) >= .781

[scott]

I will admit, I typo'ed. That should be 1.14 not .114.

With that said, your logic is wrong. The inverse (1-TOV%) of Markkannen's TOV% is not an appropriate estimate of P(successful pass, M to W).

TOV% adds up several different kinds of turnovers. 1) Where he loses control of ball when dribbling (or gets the ball stolen). 2) Where he commits a offensive foul or other rules infraction (eg stepping out of bounds) and 3) When he makes a bad pass that is intercepted...

3) is the fraction of passes that Markannen thinks are best option available to him (ie choosing that particular pass instead of shooting, dribbling, or making a different pass), that he then fails to complete.

Markkannen has that nice low TOV% because most the time, when he has the ball in his hands, he's either shooting, or has 2 steps to the rim (and thus doesn't dribble); as you admit, he isn't inclined to pass. There's a reason he doesn't make a bunch of passes. Part of that low inclination to pass is his own assessment of how likely he is to make a successful pass (that is more valuable than him doing something else: shooting, mostly). Most of the passes he attempts are pretty simple - giving it to his PG after securing a rebound (while the other team is running back to defend). He doesn't throw post entry passes often (or attacking passes in general; his career assist percentage is 7.4%).

The probability of how successful Markkannen would be making a notional pass to Wemby at the hoop is independent of his TOV%; because if he thinks he can't make that pass (or has a low chance of making it), whether his thinking's right or wrong, obviously he won't throw it...

Although I doubt Markkannen thinks about it in decimal notation, for him to try that pass, he has to assess that passing to Wemby will get the team more points than him shooting it. In other words, (assuming the shooting percentages as given), that P(successful pass, M to W) >= .781

Markkanen's role has also never been playmaker. If he's being passed the ball and is in a position to shoot, his role is to shoot. That is his job - to be the primary scoring option the last few years in Utah. That would obviously change in San Antonio, and I'm not too worried that he's too stubborn/stupid to pass it to Wemby if he is open under the basket.

[sfernald]

My condolences...

I’ve actually never seen two people boasting about their salesmanship on a basketball forum, very odd.

[Pauleta14]

The thing with Jones is, if the Spurs are acquiring a small guard that's a star (Young) or top starter (Garland) . . .

1) He'd be relegated to strictly backing them up, a role he's outgrown

2) As a '25 free agent and considering the rising cost and diminished role, why would him or the Spurs want to invest in one another long term?

3) The opposing team could have interest as he'd represent quality backfill as a third guard.

Im missing your point mate…

are you saying you’d be fine with Tre being the starter next season(s)??

I’d be more than happy if I’d never see him ever again in a Spurs uniform tbh…

Hes already overpaid and a liability who can’t pass the damn ball or shoot.

[mo7888]

I’ve actually never seen two people boasting about their salesmanship on a basketball forum, very odd.

If you think that's boasting or that the topic was about salesmanship for that matter, you might want to re-read things..... or not...

[JeffDuncan]

I will admit, I typo'ed. That should be 1.14 not .114.



No, it should be 114. It’s a number of points scored. Players do not score 1.14 points. (Speaking, again, of somebody’s math being wrong.)

How can you get it so wrong, TWICE?

Pay attention. Prove you’re not hopeless.

You went astray at the start. It’s about points per 100 attempts. You failed to multiply by the 100. You treated it as if the player only shot once. And indeed, with that earlier error of .114 you were treating it as if the player only shot 1/10 of a time.

The correct calculation is:

100 (shot attempts) * .38 (success rate) * 3 (pts per success) = 114 points (on that many attempts.)

You know perfectly well that points scored by a basketball player is a whole number, not a decimal.

For pete’s sake. Get it right.



With that said, your logic is wrong. The inverse (1-TOV%) of Markkannen's TOV% is not an appropriate estimate of P(successful pass, M to W).

TOV% adds up several different kinds of turnovers. …



I mentioned that it includes all turnovers. In addition to being poor at math, do you not read well, either?

The person who introduced that inverse was not me. It was YOU. It’s in your X. It’s in how you got that number 781 that you used. (Correctly 0.781.)

You don’t realize that about what you did, I guess. I could explain it to you, but you’re convincing me not to bother. You still think a player can score something like 1.14 points.

However, Markkanen’s TOV% is, of course, appropriate to use where an overestimate of bad passes is acceptable. An overestimate is acceptable here.

Taking out turnovers which are not bad passes will give a smaller number. His number 7.1 becomes 6.1 instead, perhaps. But then, 100 - (that number) will be even higher above .781. Which means, even more strongly, that he should pass. The pass to Wemby will score more points than a Markkanen shot.


…
3) is the fraction of passes that Markannen thinks are best option available to him …


Your logic is wrong. This is not about what players think, it’s about what they do.

NBA basketball is very fast paced. It’s mostly a display of trained reflexes. It offers the players little to no opportunity for contemplation.

The reason players practice so much is so that they can develop the correct reactions, in various situations, without thinking about it. If you have to pause and think about something out there, you’re probably cooked, even at a much lower level of basketball.

You have wandered into some other kind of game.


… He [Markkanen] doesn't throw post entry passes often…



A relevant observation when we’re talking about prospective teammates for Wemby. A complaint about the current team is exactly the scarcity of passes to him, even when he’s open in good position.



The probability of how successful Markkannen would be making a notional pass to Wemby at the hoop is independent of his TOV%; because…



Because Markkanen, himself, will decide when to pass to Wemby, and his judgment is so infallible he should be the Pope. You claim.

What you wrote is just silliness. It’s nice that you try, I suppose, but goodness.

Your argument is, ‘Markkanen won’t pass to Wemby unless X is greater than .781 because, uh, because, uh, he won’t want to!’

That is straight out of Droolerville High School. Or grade school.

Anyway, the known data about Markkanen, and Wemby, tells us that Markkanen would shoot even when he should pass to Wemby to score more points. Of the top fifty scorers in the league, Markkanen has the lowest assist number. He’s too much an alpha to play well with Wemby. He sure as hell would not be the alpha on a Wemby team. Markkanen might be retrained, but he’s 26 years old. It’s good that Markkanen can score, but we’re talking about team building, around Wemby.

[TD 21]

It’s perfectly fine if Tre and the spurs go their separate ways after his deal expires next summer in my view, but I also take the point that his value is probably at its highest this summer.

Tre tops out as a backup on a good team, so I wonder what his market will be in 2025. Could be the spurs are able to keep him in that backup role beyond this deal, but it’s also no accident it was a short term deal. What we DONT want is to have the PG position still an open question by then, with the spurs feeling they have to overpay to keep Tre.

He's not some amazing asset, but in hypotheticals like this, they might as well kill three birds with one stone.

Outside of scenarios like this, I doubt he's going anywhere. Part of their preference for a bigger, combo lead guard type, is likely to pave the way for him to become the 6th man going forward.



Im missing your point mate…

are you saying you’d be fine with Tre being the starter next season(s)??

I’d be more than happy if I’d never see him ever again in a Spurs uniform tbh…

Hes already overpaid and a liability who can’t pass the damn ball or shoot.

Not at all. I'm saying, with a Young, Garland, etc., his role would be diminished, all but ensuring he'd leave the following off season anyway when he's a free agent. Plus, adding him to a package for those types could slightly lessen the draft capital given up, so it makes sense all the way around to include him.

In Andy Bailey's latest monthly aggregate of players in various catch-all metrics, Jones rates 127th, in a league with 450 standard contracts and 90 two-way ones.

[scott]

No, it should be 114. It’s a number of points scored. Players do not score 1.14 points. (Speaking, again, of somebody’s math being wrong.)

How can you get it so wrong, TWICE?

Pay attention. Prove you’re not hopeless.

You went astray at the start. It’s about points per 100 attempts. You failed to multiply by the 100. You treated it as if the player only shot once. And indeed, with that earlier error of .114 you were treating it as if the player only shot 1/10 of a time.

The correct calculation is:

100 (shot attempts) * .38 (success rate) * 3 (pts per success) = 114 points (on that many attempts.)

You know perfectly well that points scored by a basketball player is a whole number, not a decimal.

For pete’s sake. Get it right.



He is quite clearly quoting expected points per attempt. It's wild that you can go an entire post calling someone else stupid without realizing this.

[pad300]

He is quite clearly quoting expected points per attempt. It's wild that you can go an entire post calling someone else stupid without realizing this.

Dumb and loud is a lousy way for Jeff to go through life...

I've tried to explain the probability math and where he went wrong to him; but it's not working, and I'm not going to waste more of my time on it.

[mo7888]

So, LA papers think they move Reaves and D'Lo in a package with multiple 1st's for Trae. What would you think about getting D'Lo out of that deal? Atl won't want him if they're keeping DJ. Or possibly taking Reaves + D'Lo in a 3 team deal sending KJ + a couple 1st's (Chicago and one of our own)?

[CGD]

So, LA papers think they move Reaves and D'Lo in a package with multiple 1st's for Trae. What would you think about getting D'Lo out of that deal? Atl won't want him if they're keeping DJ. Or possibly taking Reaves + D'Lo in a 3 team deal sending KJ + a couple 1st's (Chicago and one of our own)?

How does that work with DLo’s Player Option? Are you assuming he’ll pick it up? Not sure the amount he’s owed.

[mo7888]

How does that work with DLo’s Player Option? Are you assuming he’ll pick it up? Not sure the amount he’s owed.

Yes, $18.6 assuming he opts in. I'm not sure what a S&T would liike like or if/when we could extend him if he opted in..

[TD 21]

So, LA papers think they move Reaves and D'Lo in a package with multiple 1st's for Trae. What would you think about getting D'Lo out of that deal? Atl won't want him if they're keeping DJ. Or possibly taking Reaves + D'Lo in a 3 team deal sending KJ + a couple 1st's (Chicago and one of our own)?

Skillset wise, he's not a bad fit as a stopgap, but he doesn't fit the precious "culture", so he's automatically out.

Word is the Lakers think the Magic ($50-60M projected cap space) could be players for him.

[spurraider21]

Skillset wise, he's not a bad fit as a stopgap, but he doesn't fit the precious "culture", so he's automatically out.

Word is the Lakers think the Magic ($50-60M projected cap space) could be players for him.
magic are flush with small guards

[Seventyniner]

magic are flush with small guards

You gotta have 5 of them to make a flush.

[scott]

So, LA papers think they move Reaves and D'Lo in a package with multiple 1st's for Trae. What would you think about getting D'Lo out of that deal? Atl won't want him if they're keeping DJ. Or possibly taking Reaves + D'Lo in a 3 team deal sending KJ + a couple 1st's (Chicago and one of our own)?

Sounds like some wishful thinking from the LA papers. Unless ATL’s front office is even dumber than we think, they have no incentive to do a deal like this - as all it does it play squarely into our hands and push their rebuild out to the future when the LAL picks convey.

If Atlanta is going to trade Trae, there are really only two possible scenarios: 1) to us for their picks back or 2) in a deal that they think makes them better (thus lessening the value of those ATL picks we hold). I don’t see how DLo + Reaves could be seen by anyone as a package that makes ATL better.

[DAF86]

Sounds like some wishful thinking from the LA papers. Unless ATL’s front office is even dumber than we think, they have no incentive to do a deal like this - as all it does it play squarely into our hands and push their rebuild out to the future when the LAL picks convey.

If Atlanta is going to trade Trae, there are really only two possible scenarios: 1) to us for their picks back or 2) in a deal that they think makes them better (thus lessening the value of those ATL picks we hold). I don’t see how DLo + Reaves could be seen by anyone as a package that makes ATL better.

I watched the Lowe podcast the other day and he basically said that Trae Young doesn't move the needle for Atlanta with DJ there. They are mediocre team with both of them, and they will still be a mediocre team without one of them. So the logic behind trading one of them is (1) to get future assets and (2) changing the setup of the team in search of maybe finding something that works.

[scott]

I watched the Lowe podcast the other day and he basically said that Trae Young doesn't move the needle for Atlanta with DJ there. They are mediocre team with both of them, and they will still be a mediocre team without one of them. So the logic behind trading one of them is (1) to get future assets and (2) changing the setup of the team in search of maybe finding something that works.

Generally don’t disagree with any of that… but at least staying mediocre while adding future assets is a net gain. I could be wrong… but Trae out and DLo + Reaves in seems (to me) like it would make them worse, and that’s the one thing ATL can’t afford to do while we hold their draft future.

[DAF86]

Generally don’t disagree with any of that… but at least staying mediocre while adding future assets is a net gain. I could be wrong… but Trae out and DLo + Reaves in seems (to me) like it would make them worse, and that’s the one thing ATL can’t afford to do while we hold their draft future.

But that's the thing, Lowe thinks trading Trae wouldn't make the Hawks worse. The Hawks have a winning record since Trae went down, they were 7 games behind .500 with him. They went from the worst defense in the entire league to the 19th best. And that's without adding anyone else, now add Russell and Reaves instead of Trae and I don't think it's crazy to think Atlanta would be, at least, just as mediocre as they were this season.

[scott]

But that's the thing, Lowe thinks trading Trae wouldn't make the Hawks worse. The Hawks have a winning record since Trae went down, they were 7 games behind .500 with him. They went from the worst defense in the entire league to the 19th best. And that's without adding anyone else, now add Russell and Reaves instead of Trae and I don't think it's crazy to think Atlanta would be, at least, just as mediocre as they were this season.

That becomes the lynchpin of any potential deal. I don’t see it with this LAL proposal, but I also recognize Lowe is a lot smarter than me.

[mo7888]

But that's the thing, Lowe thinks trading Trae wouldn't make the Hawks worse. The Hawks have a winning record since Trae went down, they were 7 games behind .500 with him. They went from the worst defense in the entire league to the 19th best. And that's without adding anyone else, now add Russell and Reaves instead of Trae and I don't think it's crazy to think Atlanta would be, at least, just as mediocre as they were this season.

I think that's the thing. Trae is an all-star, but doesn't make his team better... it's a hard concept for alot of people to grasp and is also why he ultimately doesn't wind up here..

[TheChillFactor]

Trae for KAT makes the most sense for both teams on the court but with Minnesota's cap situation there's no way they take on that money.

I want no parts of Trae because the last thing I want for Wemby is for him to constantly having to wipe that little bastard's ass when he gets repeatedly beaten on the perimeter. I'd much rather have someone that could defend his position, make 3s at an above average rate and have decent to good playmaking.

Imagine a series vs. Dallas with Trae, they would constantly put him in the pick and roll to get him on Luka and then we'd be screwed.

[KobesAchilles]

Trae for KAT makes the most sense for both teams on the court but with Minnesota's cap situation there's no way they take on that money.

I want no parts of Trae because the last thing I want for Wemby is for him to constantly having to wipe that little bastard's ass when he gets repeatedly beaten on the perimeter. I'd much rather have someone that could defend his position, make 3s at an above average rate and have decent to good playmaking.

Imagine a series vs. Dallas with Trae, they would constantly put him in the pick and roll to get him on Luka and then we'd be screwed.
I agree with that but Luka averages like 33 points in the playoffs. he would get his regardless. Nobody on our team can guard Luka. It's the shooters that would kill us moreso than anything bc nobody on this team knows how to guard the 3 point line

[Atl Spur]

I agree with that but Luka averages like 33 points in the playoffs. he would get his regardless. Nobody on our team can guard Luka. It's the shooters that would kill us moreso than anything bc nobody on this team knows how to guard the 3 point line

Luka plays no defense himself!!! He’ll let Trae get 30+ back on the other end…..

[Atl Spur]

Could I interest any of you in a Klay Thompson 3/60 contract?

[TheChillFactor]

I agree with that but Luka averages like 33 points in the playoffs. he would get his regardless. Nobody on our team can guard Luka. It's the shooters that would kill us moreso than anything bc nobody on this team knows how to guard the 3 point line

yeah he will score no matter what. I'm more worried about switch hunting Trae, then we gotta double or help, then Luka is spraying the ball to all those three point shooters and still getting his 33.

it isn't just Luka, its Ant, SGA, Jamal Murray, Booker.

I just don't want Wemby constantly having to clean up because of constant blow-bys. He'll have to do that enough even with a good/decent defender at the point of attack.

[KobesAchilles]

Could I interest any of you in a Klay Thompson 3/60 contract?
I said 3/100 tbh

[JeffDuncan]

He is quite clearly quoting expected points per attempt. It's wild that you can go an entire post calling someone else stupid without realizing this.


You are wrong, of course, because you didn’t follow the discussion. Look at what I responded to, and read it carefully. I will add some emphasis to help you out.


If that's your assumption, then your math is wrong.
Probable Points (Markannen) = P(M 3 pt %)*3 = .38*3 = .114, yep.
but
Probable Points (Wemby) = P(W within 3 ft %)*P(successful pass, M to W)*2 = .73*(X)*2

If X is <.781, the team is better off if Markannen shoots...


See where it says “Probable Points?” That is what HE wrote. And then he calculated Markkanen would probably score 0.114 points.

Do you find that probable? Do you? It’s stupid.

He “quite clearly” did not write anything about “expected points per attempt.” That is nothing but your own whole-cloth fabrication. His words explicitly state otherwise.

He was talking points, dude. He explicitly stated so.

If you think he shouldn’t have done that, and should have done something else instead, you need to tell it to him.

I’ll tell you another thing that’s stupid. It’s stupid to jump into something you haven’t followed carefully enough to even know what’s being discussed. That is stupid behavior.

It’s nice that you want to help. Go tell him your opinion of what he should have done, instead of doing what he did.

[JeffDuncan]

Dumb and loud is a lousy way for Jeff to go through life...

I've tried to explain the probability math and where he went wrong to him; but it's not working, and I'm not going to waste more of my time on it.


In your own explicit words, you calculated that the player would score 0.114 points. That was stupid, kiddo. And you made the same kind of mistake twice.

Stupid and uncorrectable is a lousy way to go through life, kiddo. Be honest enough to face up to your blunders when they happen. However uncomfortable it may be, you’ll be better off.

[Mr. Body]

I think that's the thing. Trae is an all-star, but doesn't make his team better... it's a hard concept for alot of people to grasp and is also why he ultimately doesn't wind up here..

Atlanta is much better without Young. Much. Now, the ATL owners like money and he seems to bring in fans, but is it worth it? The right play is to get rid of him. Unless there's a body snatchers situation, there's no way the Spurs would buy into a Young trade.

[Atl Spur]

I said 3/100 tbh

Injuries / age would have me lower my price. 20 per is decent I’m thinking

[JPB]

I actually beleive ATL being better (small simple size alert) without trae is a good things in two different ways:

- It lowers his value in a trade.

- spurs don't need a superstar or dominant player next to Wemby who would fight for the alpha role (like Luka probably would). They need a great PG who can shoot the 3, pass and throw lobs, three things Trae is elite at.

What's happening in ATL might make Trae understand he'll never be a top dog in a contender, and accept to be Wemby's sidekcik or 1B, and a shot at contending for the rest of his prime (which he's not getting in LA). He'd still got his stats, don't get me wrong, specially with teams double/triple teamming Vic.

No other player in the NBA could contest Wemby as spurs' franchise player, there's no ambiguities and Trae could actually be perfect, as a great but not superstar PG who fits spurs needs. Defense is an issue but there's that big fella in the paint, then find 2024 Bruce Bowen and another 3&D SG/wing if you can.

[manufan10]

I watched the Lowe podcast the other day and he basically said that Trae Young doesn't move the needle for Atlanta with DJ there. They are mediocre team with both of them, and they will still be a mediocre team without one of them. So the logic behind trading one of them is (1) to get future assets and (2) changing the setup of the team in search of maybe finding something that works.


Here's the podcast for those who haven't seen it yet:



https://youtu.be/RfqshiXS4GM?si=YSFVE8984LVi71u0&amp;t=2212