Texas response to Corona virus

[hater]

Well he does work for Trump.

What does that mean? Do you mean he was forced to lie? I find that doubtful. I have a big problem with governments lying to ppl even if its "for the best of the nation" because then theybcan use that excuse for anything.

A lie is a lie. Fauci lied. He treated americans like a bunch of children. He is responsible for a lot of this mess

[hater]

Do you know, verbatim, what Fauci said?

I heard the hearing question and answer and I stand by my assesment

[Will Hunting]

Yup

He admitted he lied to american people to save the ppe for his medical teams.

Fauci lied.
Justifiable imo - in March/April the priority was making sure that our healthcare system wasn’t going to get overloaded. The real issue is how fucked up our healhcare system is and how unprepared it was even though we had more time to plan than most countries in Europe.

[DarrinS]

You've testified as an expert at trial before, right? What can you tell us about the Daubert case? You can keep it really general.

You're on the political channel of Spurstalk.com

And I'm not going to expound on Frye either.

[vy65]

I heard the hearing question and answer and I stand by my assesment

Then your assessment is incorrect. That's not what he said.

[vy65]

You're on the political channel of Spurstalk.com

And I'm not going to expound on Frye either.

Oh, great, you know about the case Daubert superseded. So I assume you know what Daubert stood for. What don't you give us all a broad picture of it?

[Will Hunting]

If Fauci said “Pls don’t buy medical face masks, they’d be helpful in preventing you from getting the virus but we need them for our healthcare workers first” there would have been a run on them across the country.

[vy65]

If Supreme Court cases don't apply to the political forum, I wonder why the First Amendment does?

[DarrinS]

If we have to be epidemiologists, even a proven shitty ones, to even discuss this, might as well close a bunch of these threads.

[hater]

Then your assessment is incorrect. That's not what he said.

Disagree or post what he said

[vy65]

If we have to be epidemiologists, even a proven shitty ones, to even discuss this, might as well close a bunch of these threads.

That'd stop a lot of misinformation, so I support it.

[hater]

Justifiable imo - in March/April the priority was making sure that our healthcare system wasn’t going to get overloaded. The real issue is how fucked up our healhcare system is and how unprepared it was even though we had more time to plan than most countries in Europe.

A lie is a lie. Fauci lied. This mess is also on him

[vy65]

Disagree or post what he said

"I'm not against it"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=78&v=PRa6t_e7dgI&feature=emb_title

[hater]

If Fauci said “Pls don’t buy medical face masks, they’d be helpful in preventing you from getting the virus but we need them for our healthcare workers first” there would have been a run on them across the country.

And if US had bought enough masks stockpile which is fucking cheap compared to what they spend on military, there would have been no need to lie

[hater]

"I'm not against it"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=78&v=PRa6t_e7dgI&feature=emb_title

Im talking about his congress hearing last week. He admitted he lied

[Will Hunting]

A lie is a lie. Fauci lied. This mess is also on him
I won’t disagree with that - this mess is on any public health professionals who haven’t spoken out about how fucked up our healthcare system is because it might piss of big pharma.

[DarrinS]

Oh, great, you know about the case Daubert superseded. So I assume you know what Daubert stood for. What don't you give us all a broad picture of it?

If people are that fucking bored (and believe me, it's boring AF), they can go look it up.

[hater]

I won’t disagree with that - this mess is on any public health professionals who haven’t spoken out about how fucked up our healthcare system is because it might piss of big pharma.

:tu

Also how bad our stockpile was

We are talking about a mask that costs a couple dollars while we spend trillions on mass murder weapons.

Thats the worst part imo

[weebo]

And if US had bought enough masks stockpile which is fucking cheap compared to what they spend on military, there would have been no need to lie

And that there is your answer...if Fauci came out and said people should wear N95 masks the public would empty whatever supply was left...look at what happened with toilet paper

[Will Hunting]

And if US had bought enough masks stockpile which is fucking cheap compared to what they spend on military, there would have been no need to lie
Co-signed sons. Our healthcare system being an abortion is the real issue here.

[Will Hunting]

:tu

Also how bad our stockpile was

We are talking about a mask that costs a couple dollars while we spend trillions on mass murder weapons.

Thats the worst part imo
Having a necessary amount of medical supplies like N95 masks stockpiled for a pandemic is only going to happen with government intervention and regulations, it’s never going to be something the “free market” does on its own.

[vy65]

Im talking about his congress hearing last week. He admitted he lied

Post it or shut up

[vy65]

If people are that fucking bored (and believe me, it's boring AF), they can go look it up.

And he folds ...

[pgardn]

If we have to be epidemiologists, even a proven shitty ones, to even discuss this, might as well close a bunch of these threads.

Im not saying this is you,
but people on here pretend they are experts and make really shitty arguments.
I have heard more misconceptions about what science is and is not on this board... so much so that it is really quite frightening. The anti science slant of this current administration parroted by people on this board is concerning. Mistakes will be made, but out-right lying is dangerous. There are people on here that are not the least bit bothered by lying and purposely misleading people concerning this whole virus mess. Its very revealing and sad.

[tholdren]

Im not saying this is you,
but people on here pretend they are experts and make really shitty arguments.
I have heard more misconceptions about what science is and is not on this board... so much so that it is really quite frightening. The anti science slant of this current administration parroted by people on this board is concerning. Mistakes will be made, but out-right lying is dangerous. There are people on here that are not the least bit bothered by lying and purposely misleading people concerning this whole virus mess. Its very revealing and sad.

bwhahahhaahhahahahahaaga

Your math your logic not science. You're always wrong

[hater]

And that there is your answer...if Fauci came out and said people should wear N95 masks the public would empty whatever supply was left...look at what happened with toilet paper

He lied period.

And all US government because they were in panic mode because they had a 3rd world ppe stockpile.

No I am not saying he should have mentioned n95 by name but should not have lied that masks help.

I was telling everyone here to buy n95s in january when I bought my supply. I predicted we all will be wearing masks back in january. It was common sense

Just goes to show again. Never ever listen to your government but use your own logic and common sense to protect yourself and your own.

Always keep in mind that when government gives recommendations. Its intended for the stupidest sections of america.

Use your brain

[tholdren]

He lied period.

And all US government because they were in panic mode because they had a 3rd world ppe stockpile.

No I am not saying he should have mentioned n95 by name but should not have lied that masks help.

I was telling everyone here to buy n95s in january when I bought my supply. I predicted we all will be wearing masks back in january. It was common sense

Just goes to show again. Never ever listen to your government but use your own logic and common sense to protect yourself and your own.

Always keep in mind that when government gives recommendations. Its intended for the stupidest sections of america.

Use your brain

lockdown wear masks

[hater]

Post it or shut up

Me, willhunt and weebo are all on the same page on this tbqh

Sorry you are struggling to follow

[vy65]

Me, willhunt and weebo are all on the same page on this tbqh

Sorry you are struggling to follow


Post it or shut up

Hater folds too ... sad to see you stooping to Darrin levels mah nig, you're better than this

[DarrinS]

Im not saying this is you,
but people on here pretend they are experts and make really shitty arguments.
I have heard more misconceptions about what science is and is not on this board... so much so that it is really quite frightening. The anti science slant of this current administration parroted by people on this board is concerning. Mistakes will be made, but out-right lying is dangerous. There are people on here that are not the least bit bothered by lying and purposely misleading people concerning this whole virus mess. Its very revealing and sad.


I'm just trying to make sense of things like everyone else. I'm sure some things I've posted a couple of months ago turned out to be bullshit. That's how we learn though.

[DarrinS]

And he folds ...


Hater folds too ... sad to see you stooping to Darrin levels mah nig, you're better than this

You seem really butthurt about me not wanting to discuss some boring legal shit. No one cares, tbh.

[Spurtacular]

I'm just trying to make sense of things like everyone else. I'm sure some things I've posted a couple of months ago turned out to be bullshit. That's how we learn though.

:lol Trying to "learn" from Chumpettes.

[leemajors]

Im not saying this is you,
but people on here pretend they are experts and make really shitty arguments.
I have heard more misconceptions about what science is and is not on this board... so much so that it is really quite frightening. The anti science slant of this current administration parroted by people on this board is concerning. Mistakes will be made, but out-right lying is dangerous. There are people on here that are not the least bit bothered by lying and purposely misleading people concerning this whole virus mess. Its very revealing and sad.

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Asimov

[pgardn]

I'm just trying to make sense of things like everyone else. I'm sure some things I've posted a couple of months ago turned out to be bullshit. That's how we learn though.

I have absolutely no problem with this and you are absolutely correct.
And thats how science works as well, especially with something as new and as rushed as this current mess is.
Trump world works on immediate W and Ls though. That does not work with science. It can be very messy with something so variable (the ways different people are reacting to the virus is astounding and frustrating)

[DarrinS]

:lol Trying to "learn" from Chumpettes.

Even the "experts" have been learning since this virus is "novel". Probably explains the ever decreasing death rate.

[hater]

Even the "experts" have been learning since this virus is "novel". Probably explains the ever decreasing death rate.

Deathrate is not the problem ma noga

Its hospitalizations. Any day a hospital bed is taken due to this virus is damage to entire health ecosystem.

[tholdren]

Deathrate is not the problem ma noga

Its hospitalizations. Any day a hospital bed is taken due to this virus is damage to entire health ecosystem.

Quite the stretch

[DarrinS]

I have absolutely no problem with this and you are absolutely correct.
And thats how science works as well, especially with something as new and as rushed as this current mess is.
Trump world works on immediate W and Ls though. That does not work with science. It can be very messy with something so variable (the ways different people are reacting to the virus is astounding and frustrating)


Yeah, I think the doctors have started putting together some really good treatment protocols.

Probably helped that doctors around the world were sharing information.

[hater]

Quite the stretch

Huh?

[pgardn]

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Asimov

Dude wrote some of the best books I ever read even though he is considered kind of past.
This quote is a dart.
Something that I personally feel is missing though is that people actually are quite fine with science once they understand what it can and cannot do.
The assumption that scientists are a bunch of liberal geeks is fully BS. Most of these people are just curious and want to understand something and then a problem that takes good science to solve turns into a political event and they get kicked in the nuts out of nowhere. They just dont get it. A significant number are not political to begin with so its like wtf???

[DarrinS]

Deathrate is not the problem ma noga

Its hospitalizations. Any day a hospital bed is taken due to this virus is damage to entire health ecosystem.


Ventilators keep you in hospital for a long time. They aren't knee jerk putting people on respirators anymore.

And younger demo getting covid should mean less hospitalization.

[DarrinS]

Deathrate is not the problem ma noga

Its hospitalizations. Any day a hospital bed is taken due to this virus is damage to entire health ecosystem.

People recover, too. That's another bed.

[vy65]

You seem really butthurt about me not wanting to discuss some boring legal shit. No one cares, tbh.

Broh, I’m drinking, watching some tv, and enjoying my dogs. I ain’t butt hurt about shit. But you should really just shut the fuck up.

[ChumpDumper]

Having a necessary amount of medical supplies like N95 masks stockpiled for a pandemic is only going to happen with government intervention and regulations, it’s never going to be something the “free market” does on its own.That's why the Clinton administration started the national stockpile program. It's a shame Republicans blocked all the attempts to replenish it after the H1N1 pandemic.

[DarrinS]

Broh, I’m drinking, watching some tv, and enjoying my dogs. I ain’t butt hurt about shit. But you should really just shut the fuck up.

Ok, that's pretty funny, tbh. :lol

[weebo]

He lied period.

And all US government because they were in panic mode because they had a 3rd world ppe stockpile.

No I am not saying he should have mentioned n95 by name but should not have lied that masks help.

I was telling everyone here to buy n95s in january when I bought my supply. I predicted we all will be wearing masks back in january. It was common sense

Just goes to show again. Never ever listen to your government but use your own logic and common sense to protect yourself and your own.

Always keep in mind that when government gives recommendations. Its intended for the stupidest sections of america.

Use your brain

Unfortunately, we can't trust Americans to ever do the smart thing.

[DarrinS]

I'm drinking on my patio, enjoying this Saharan dust. My dog is being her normal bitchy self. :lol

[Spurtacular]

Even the "experts" have been learning since this virus is "novel". Probably explains the ever decreasing death rate.

Not marking COVID deaths for every nursing home death could've done it too.

[DarrinS]

Not marking COVID deaths for every nursing home death could've done it too.

All data has human errors, but it's "mostly" correct.

[Spurtacular]

All data has human errors, but it's "mostly" correct.

I know you desperately want to live in a world without political shenanigans. But it's all around you.
You keep hoping if you must.

[DarrinS]

I know you desperately want to live in a world without political shenanigans. But it's all around you.
You keep hoping if you must.


I know people at local hospitals, so I have a sense of what's going on. It's definitely increasing.

[Spurtacular]

I know people at local hospitals, so I have a sense of what's going on. It's definitely increasing.

Testing has drastically increased. That's expected.

[Winehole23]

Testing has drastically increased. That's expected.Community transmission has increased. Gov.Abbott predicted that but, not quite to the extent of reversing the reopening three weeks later.

[Spurtacular]

Community transmission has increased. Gov.Abbott predicted that but, not quite to the extent of reversing the reopening three weeks later.

It's spreading! Somehow, deaths are going down!

:lol The faggotry

TheGreatYacht

[pgardn]

It's spreading! Somehow, deaths are going down!

:lol The faggotry

TheGreatYacht (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=43719)

You call on the most conspiracy minded poster on this board.
Fantastic.

[Spurtacular]

You call on the most conspiracy minded poster on this board.
Fantastic.

I think it's a conspiracy that a killer virus is spreading and somehow deciding to show mercy on us.
Do you think your tears are magical, Less Than Blake?

[pgardn]

I think it's a conspiracy that a killer virus is spreading and somehow deciding to show mercy on us.
Do you think your tears are magical, Less Than Blake?

wft are you even saying, show mercy on us? fckn bozo its behaving like a very infectious virus.
Does the cold virus show mercy on us Ricky Bobby? "Help me Oprah and TGY!"

[MannyIsGod]

Dr. Fauci told us not to wear masks, not all that long ago.

Oh you mean when we were in a huge mask shortage and in the middle of a nationwide lockdown? Its almost as if the context of mask wearing now is different. Why are you like this? I mean honestly.

[DarrinS]

I think it's a conspiracy that a killer virus is spreading and somehow deciding to show mercy on us.
Do you think your tears are magical, Less Than Blake?


It was killing a bunch at first, because it was new, and docs were following protocols from previous experience. This thing is not like other respiratory viruses (again, it's new).

[DarrinS]

Oh you mean when we were in a huge mask shortage and in the middle of a nationwide lockdown? Its almost as if the context of mask wearing now is different. Why are you like this? I mean honestly.

They could have told the public to wear non-medical grade face coverings. Pretty much what they're telling us now.

[Blake]

Ventilators keep you in hospital for a long time. They aren't knee jerk putting people on respirators anymore.

And younger demo getting covid should mean less hospitalization.

Not so much less hospitalization but less death rate

[SnakeBoy]

It's spreading! Somehow, deaths are going down!


Docs are getting better at treating so deaths declining is expected. Not sure how that is supposed to disprove that the virus is spreading.

[DarrinS]

Not so much less hospitalization but less death rate

And they're getting people out of hospitals faster. That's what I've been told, anyway.

[pgardn]

Docs are getting better at treating so deaths declining is expected. Not sure how that is supposed to disprove that the virus is spreading.

Thats a conspiracy.
Why should doctors get better at treating just because they handle more and more cases and correspond with other doctors?
Are you actually claiming more familiarity with a disease and more time to work with it help us understand it better and possibly treat it better?

Rubbish...

- Spurtuclus Oblivious

[DarrinS]

Yeah, I think the doctors have started putting together some really good treatment protocols.

Probably helped that doctors around the world were sharing information.


One such protocol is called MATH+

Google that, if you're interested

[baseline bum]

Docs are getting better at treating so deaths declining is expected. Not sure how that is supposed to disprove that the virus is spreading.

Do you attribute it to better treatment as opposed to just a time delay between being symptomatic to sick to dead? Because this jump in infections has been really quick (as exponential growth should be) and deaths have always seemed to have a pretty significant lag. What is the difference in treatment? Is everyone who is in really dire straits getting dexamethasone now? I remember remedesivir chipping away at the death rate a bit and cutting a couple of days off hospital stays on average, but it didn't sound like a game changer.

[baseline bum]

double post

[baseline bum]

One such protocol is called MATH+

Google that, if you're interested

I'd rather google Kana Momonogi tbh

[TimDunkem]

Seems obvious the "low" death rate right now is a combination of a host of factors with the likely biggest contributor being that we really did flatten the curve in most places through the end of April and through May.

As the infections explode again and the colder months come, so will the deaths. I feel like I'm watching the same movie I watched in March.

[DarrinS]

Do you attribute it to better treatment as opposed to just a time delay between being symptomatic to sick to dead? Because this jump in infections has been really quick (as exponential growth should be) and deaths have always seemed to have a pretty significant lag. What is the difference in treatment? Is everyone who is in really dire straits getting dexamethasone now? I remember remedesivir chipping away at the death rate a bit and cutting a couple of days off hospital stays on average, but it didn't sound like a game changer.

Just keep monitoring the deaths.

[DarrinS]

I'd rather google Kana Momonogi tbh

May be as simple as not being fat, getting enough vitamin D, and taking the occasional aspirin.

Don't know what or who Kana Momonogi is. Definitely, not googling.

[baseline bum]

Seems obvious the "low" death rate right now is a combination of a host of factors with the likely biggest contributor being that we really did flatten the curve in most places through the end of April and through May.

As the infections explode again and the colder months come, so will the deaths. I feel like I'm watching the same movie I watched in March.

I would guess it's either a time delay since deaths are a lagging indicator or maybe we're getting the strain the west coast was seeded with from Wuhan as opposed to the one the east coast was seeded with from Italy. Though if that's the case you'd probably expect Florida deaths to shoot through the roof since no way they weren't seeded from old New Yorkers.

[TimDunkem]

I would guess it's either a time delay since deaths are a lagging indicator or maybe we're getting the strain the west coast was seeded with from Wuhan as opposed to the one the east coast was seeded with from Italy. Though if that's the case you'd probably expect Florida deaths to shoot through the roof since no way they weren't seeded from old New Yorkers.

Could explain all the pneumonia deaths. :lol

[baseline bum]

May be as simple as not being fat, getting enough vitamin D, and taking the occasional aspirin.

Don't know what or who Kana Momonogi is. Definitely, not googling.

Not being fat in San Antonio? Not sure if srs.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ0phTDxyzA

[DarrinS]

I lost 35 lbs a few years ago. Glad I did that.

[tholdren]

wft are you even saying, show mercy on us? fckn bozo its behaving like a very infectious virus.
Does the cold virus show mercy on us Ricky Bobby? "Help me Oprah and TGY!"

Lol wrong

[ElNono]

Righteous rant. Chumpettes don't like it.

TheGreatYacht

:lmao

[Blake]

"This recent rise in cases among young adults could lower Covid-19 death rates -- until those young people go on to infect others, Dr. Tom Frieden, former director of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, wrote in a Twitter post., Dr. Tom Frieden, former director of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, wrote in a Twitter post.

"With younger age of recent infections in at least some places such as Florida, expect a lower death rate in this wave ... until the 20-40 year olds who are infected today go on to infect others," Frieden, president and CEO of the initiative Resolve to Save Lives, tweeted on Sunday....

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/22/health/covid-younger-adults-lower-death-rate-trnd/index.html

[tholdren]

"This recent rise in cases among young adults could lower Covid-19 death rates -- until those young people go on to infect others, Dr. Tom Frieden, former director of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, wrote in a Twitter post., Dr. Tom Frieden, former director of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, wrote in a Twitter post.

"With younger age of recent infections in at least some places such as Florida, expect a lower death rate in this wave ... until the 20-40 year olds who are infected today go on to infect others," Frieden, president and CEO of the initiative Resolve to Save Lives, tweeted on Sunday....

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/22/health/covid-younger-adults-lower-death-rate-trnd/index.html

Yeah man

[SnakeBoy]

Do you attribute it to better treatment as opposed to just a time delay between being symptomatic to sick to dead? Because this jump in infections has been really quick (as exponential growth should be) and deaths have always seemed to have a pretty significant lag. What is the difference in treatment? Is everyone who is in really dire straits getting dexamethasone now? I remember remedesivir chipping away at the death rate a bit and cutting a couple of days off hospital stays on average, but it didn't sound like a game changer.

Yeah remdesivir isn't a game changer but it's better than nothing but remdesivir aside supportive treatment is getting better.

I don't know if everyone is getting dexamethasone now but they are doing somethings different than the standard ARDS protocol they started with. One is using blood thinners to prevent the clotting disorder that was killing so many. From what my wife was telling me it sounds like people can head down two different roads with the pneumonia, one more typical of ARDS and the other they are calling happy hypoxics. Those are the ones with O2 sats in the 70's but they're sitting there feeling pretty good, more like altitude sickness than pneumonia. They've learned not to vent those people as they do worse vented than just on high flow O2.

Basically it's just what pgardn says, practice makes perfect.

[RandomGuy]

It's spreading! Somehow, deaths are going down!

:lol The faggotry

TheGreatYacht

Takes about two weeks to run its course. we are still in week one of the run up.

Deaths will rise as the number of cases go up, this isn't difficult. When the hospitals get overwhelmed, it will get worse.

[RandomGuy]

"This recent rise in cases among young adults could lower Covid-19 death rates -- until those young people go on to infect others, Dr. Tom Frieden, former director of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, wrote in a Twitter post., Dr. Tom Frieden, former director of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, wrote in a Twitter post.

"With younger age of recent infections in at least some places such as Florida, expect a lower death rate in this wave ... until the 20-40 year olds who are infected today go on to infect others," Frieden, president and CEO of the initiative Resolve to Save Lives, tweeted on Sunday....

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/22/health/covid-younger-adults-lower-death-rate-trnd/index.html

Kind of my thoughts as well, given the mortality/age relationship. If this is the case, then death rate will stay fairly stable relative to case load until it gets into older populations. (that is a bit of a longer delay from the increase in case load to the time that the mortality rate ticks up)

[Winehole23]

It's spreading! Somehow, deaths are going down!

:lol The faggotry

TheGreatYacht (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=43719)Death is hardly the only thing to be concerned about, the social cost of treating COVID-19 related disabilities and mental health issues will be ongoing, and these lingering human health effects will diminish our economic productivity.

Believe it or not, pandemics can do more economic harm than shelter in place orders.

https://www.ajmc.com/focus-of-the-week/analysis-finds-aggressive-social-distancing-measures-economically-justified

[tholdren]

Kind of my thoughts as well, given the mortality/age relationship. If this is the case, then death rate will stay fairly stable relative to case load until it gets into older populations. (that is a bit of a longer delay from the increase in case load to the time that the mortality rate ticks up)

nwahahahajjajajajaja

RandomGuy 2 weeks late to the party.
Said this was not true when I said it weeks ago - he said hospitals were overwhelmed.

Now hes saying his calculations allowed him to see there is a morality age relationship. Again something that has been known since January. He's been denying the whole time.

Lol what a ChumpDumper

[boutons_deux]

The brutality, sadism, sociopathy of rightwingnutjobs and Capitalism dictate that (old) people are expendable.

Not all old people are in nursing homes, only a tiny minority.

The sheer volume of under-50 C19 victims means 10Ks will die, and 100Ks are at risk of long term, chronic disability, meaning lifelong poverty.

[tholdren]

The brutality, sadism, sociopathy of rightwingnutjobs and Capitalism dictate that (old) people are expendable.

Not all old people are in nursing homes, only a tiny minority.

The sheer volume of under-50 C19 victims means 10Ks will die, and 100Ks are at risk of long term, chronic disability, meaning lifelong poverty.

Wrong

[SnakeBoy]

Death is hardly the only thing to be concerned about, the social cost of treating COVID-19 related disabilities and mental health issues will be ongoing, and these lingering human health effects will diminish our economic productivity.

Believe it or not, pandemics can do more economic harm than shelter in place orders.

https://www.ajmc.com/focus-of-the-week/analysis-finds-aggressive-social-distancing-measures-economically-justified

That's not what the link says. It's says the saved lives outweigh the economic damage. It's a terrible analysis because they are still assuming this is a relatively short event. Which they actually point out


Noting a study limitation, economists said that their analysis does not consider the impact of a second wave of COVID-19 infections, as they assume that current social distancing policies will lead to the implementation of cost-effective COVID-19 treatments or vaccines.

A vaccine in less than another year seems like a long shot to me. A covid specific drug cure seems like a longer shot.

They should have included the most likely scenario which is that we have to reach herd immunity infection rate of ~70% and how long that is going to take. Then they could have just looked at mortality rate & deaths to gauge how far we have to go. If they took a best case scenario of .1% mortality then we are about 33% to herd immunity and still have another ~200k deaths to go. Although it seems pretty clear we are not that far along so bump the mortality rate up to .3% and we have even longer haul in front of us.

It just isn't feasible to shelter in place to the end of this.

[ChumpDumper]

The current strategy is to redline hospital capacity then hope and prayers.

Yours in Christ,
Balous

[SnakeBoy]

The current strategy is to redline hospital capacity then hope and prayers.

Yours in Christ,
Balous

Did you ever get your fancy Asian mask with the valves that defeat the whole purpose of protecting others from you?

[Blake]

It just isn't feasible to shelter in place to the end of this.

What's your plan exactly?

[ChumpDumper]

Did you ever get your fancy Asian mask with the valves that defeat the whole purpose of protecting others from you?I have cloth masks and surgical-type masks that protect others from me. Why are you trying to mask shame people? Is it personal? You seem angry about Balous. Do you know him?

[ChumpDumper]

What's your plan exactly?The "if they die, they die" plan.

[SnakeBoy]

What's your plan exactly?

I don't have a plan.

What's your plan?

[SnakeBoy]

I have cloth masks and surgical-type masks that protect others from me. Why are you trying to mask shame people? Is it personal? You seem angry about Balous. Do you know him?

I'm not mask shaming you. You had posted a pic of the mask you wanted. It had valves which defeat the purpose of protecting others.

Who's Balous?

[CosmicCowboy]

Do you attribute it to better treatment as opposed to just a time delay between being symptomatic to sick to dead? Because this jump in infections has been really quick (as exponential growth should be) and deaths have always seemed to have a pretty significant lag. What is the difference in treatment? Is everyone who is in really dire straits getting dexamethasone now? I remember remedesivir chipping away at the death rate a bit and cutting a couple of days off hospital stays on average, but it didn't sound like a game changer.

One big difference is how they use ventilators. Historically anyone whose oxygen level fell below 95% got put on a ventilator. They were seeing covid victims with 70% oxygen levels but otherwise normal and automatically putting them on ventilators which killed them now they are putting them on oxygen and they are recovering. They are also automatically putting them on blood thinners to counteract the strokes which was the big killer of the younger people. They didn't do that at first.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not mask shaming you. You had posted a pic of the mask you wanted. It had valves which defeat the purpose of protecting others.You've been holding that for months in an attempt to shame me when you felt put upon by a Balous post. You certainly didn't want to guide me in the right direction to actually protect others in a timely manner.

Why are you being such an asshole when lives are at stake?

[CosmicCowboy]

I know one thing that has changed for us forever. With home delivery we may never go to HEB again. Haven't been there in months.

[pgardn]

I don't have a plan.

What's your plan?

And we have the crux of the problem.
Poor leadership. We know we cant have everyone hiding in their houses.
We know we should not have people pouring into large enclosed arenas for political rallies shouting and spewing all over each other.

We need creative people to meld obvious safety without shutting down other important aspects of a society that needs to move forward.

1. We dont need large crowds in enclosed spaces for long periods of time. Especially if people move in and out with some regularity. (Good luck if you are in prison)

2. We must be able to work and help an economy get through without significantly increasing the spread.

So far we have failed.

[SnakeBoy]

You've been holding that for months in an attempt to shame me when you felt put upon by a Balous post. You certainly didn't want to guide me in the right direction to actually protect others in a timely manner.

Why are you being such an asshole when lives are at stake?

lol I'm supposed to guide you

Why are you so triggered by reality? If you'd accept reality and stop treating this like a team sport you could make better decisions and not need to be guided by strangers on a sports forum.

[CosmicCowboy]

*double post

[ChumpDumper]

lol I'm supposed to guide you

Why are you so triggered by reality? If you'd accept reality and stop treating this like a team sport you could make better decisions and not need to be guided by strangers on a sports forum.You have the gall to say I'm treating this like a team sport when you just tried to mask shame me from a picture I posted months ago of a mask I don't have?

The reality is you wanted to score a point on a sports message board. You mercilessly pimped the drugs you were told to pimp by your team but you couldn't bring yourself to update a recommendation about masks to people who have been posting about masks all along. You thought I was ignorant about the type of masks to use to protect others all this time and you sat on it.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

[SnakeBoy]

You have the gall to say I'm treating this like a team sport when you just tried to mask shame me from a picture I posted months ago of a mask I don't have?

The reality is you wanted to score a point on a sports message board. You mercilessly pimped the drugs you were told to pimp by your team but you couldn't bring yourself to update a recommendation about masks to people who have been posting about masks all along. You thought I was ignorant about the type of masks to use to protect others all this time and you sat on it.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

Why do you get so emotional and triggered anytime reality is mentioned?

I've been frustrated with the lack of directness people like Fauci are giving to the American people. Seeing how easily you meltdown makes me realize why they can't be direct. Fauci has to say he feels confident in a vaccine by the end of the year so weak minded fucks like you won't freak out. You need to be comforted so much that you ignore the "if a vaccine is even possible" ending to his "hopeful" statement.

Face it Chump, you're probably going to get covid. You'll live or you'll die.

[Reck]

Why do you get so emotional and triggered anytime reality is mentioned?

I've been frustrated with the lack of directness people like Fauci are giving to the American people. Seeing how easily you meltdown makes me realize why they can't be direct. Fauci has to say he feels confident in a vaccine by the end of the year so weak minded fucks like you won't freak out. You need to be comforted so much that you ignore the "if a vaccine is even possible" ending to his "hopeful" statement.

Face it Chump, you're probably going to get covid. You'll live or you'll die.

Accuses someone else of melting down

Proceeds to meltdown himself in the ensuing post.

[pgardn]

Why do you get so emotional and triggered anytime reality is mentioned?

I've been frustrated with the lack of directness people like Fauci are giving to the American people. Seeing how easily you meltdown makes me realize why they can't be direct. Fauci has to say he feels confident in a vaccine by the end of the year so weak minded fucks like you won't freak out. You need to be comforted so much that you ignore the "if a vaccine is even possible" ending to his "hopeful" statement.

Face it Chump, you're probably going to get covid. You'll live or you'll die.

people like Fauci...

But you enjoy the press conferences on the virus given by Trump that have more viewers than Monday night football?

I guess presidents don’t lead.

and yeah this is what about ism.
how dare I ask the President of the United States to lead to not be a hypocrite

[CosmicCowboy]

You have the gall to say I'm treating this like a team sport when you just tried to mask shame me from a picture I posted months ago of a mask I don't have?

The reality is you wanted to score a point on a sports message board. You mercilessly pimped the drugs you were told to pimp by your team but you couldn't bring yourself to update a recommendation about masks to people who have been posting about masks all along. You thought I was ignorant about the type of masks to use to protect others all this time and you sat on it.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

:lmao @ the irony of chumpdumper complaining about someone "trying to score points" on a sports message board.

[Blake]

I don't have a plan.

What's your plan?

You're the one giving medical opinions and making the imperative claim that it isn't feasible to shelter in place. I'm asking what you would do if you were governor.

Looks to me like you don't want any government intervention at all.

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao @ the irony of chumpdumper complaining about someone "trying to score points" on a sports message board.:lmao the irony is SnakeBoy tried to do exactly the same thing but he's on your Trump team so everything is cool.

[ChumpDumper]

You're the one giving medical opinions and making the imperative claim that it isn't feasible to shelter in place. I'm asking what you would do if you were governor.

Looks to me like you don't want any government intervention at all.It's too late to UBI a shutdown out of this which might have been a good idea but maybe UBI the most vulnerable and cover the quarantine of the sick so they aren't forced to risk their lives and the lives of others to buy food.

It seems stupid to send elderly teachers into teach high school at this point, for example.

[boutons_deux]

Could explain all the pneumonia deaths. :lol

:lol

[SnakeBoy]

:lmao the irony is SnakeBoy tried to do exactly the same thing but he's on your Trump team so everything is cool.

All I did was state facts which as usual led to your moral preening

That's all you've done through all of this. You tried your moral preening when you got your N95 masks until it was pointed out healthcare workers needed them more then you and you tried to backtrack. Then you tried it with your valved mask lol.

All of your preening isn't going to keep the covids away tho

[Blake]

It's too late to UBI a shutdown out of this which might have been a good idea but maybe UBI the most vulnerable and cover the quarantine of the sick so they aren't forced to risk their lives and the lives of others to buy food.

It seems stupid to send elderly teachers into teach high school at this point, for example.

Too bad policy makers never wanted to talk about emergency contingency funding, especially in Texas.

I mean shit, Texas is the one suing to repeal Obamacare. There's no way we're gonna UBI for the sick and the vulnerable. It'll all have to come from the federal level who are ridiculously dragging their feet on any new stimulus package.

But in the here and now, shut down interior dining, mandate masks and social distancing. It's pretty fucking frustrating that given what we knew by April that Abbott still opened things up like we beat it.

[SnakeBoy]

You're the one giving medical opinions and making the imperative claim that it isn't feasible to shelter in place. I'm asking what you would do if you were governor.

Looks to me like you don't want any government intervention at all.

I didn't give a medical opinion. There is a mortality rate. You pick what you think it is and that's where we are going.

If you think it's a mild flu with .1% mortality then we got ~200k deaths to go.

So what do you think the mortality rate is?

[Blake]

All of your preening isn't going to keep the covids away tho

So what do you suggest that Texas does now? Open all the way back up? Just come out and say it already.

[Blake]

I didn't give a medical opinion. There is a mortality rate. You pick what you think it is and that's where we are going.

If you think it's a mild flu with .1% mortality then we got ~200k deaths to go.

So what do you think the mortality rate is?

Nope I don't do red herrings. You have a question pending about what you think Texas should do.

[ChumpDumper]

Why do you get so emotional and triggered anytime reality is mentioned?

I've been frustrated with the lack of directness people like Fauci are giving to the American people. Seeing how easily you meltdown makes me realize why they can't be direct. Fauci has to say he feels confident in a vaccine by the end of the year so weak minded fucks like you won't freak out. You need to be comforted so much that you ignore the "if a vaccine is even possible" ending to his "hopeful" statement.

Face it Chump, you're probably going to get covid. You'll live or you'll die.:lmao You are never direct because you're a passive aggressive little twat who can't stand being called out for it.

:lmao "Face it." The whole current mask discussion is assuming I already have it and don't want to spread it to others. I don't think it will kill me. I never once said I thought it would.

You aren't being direct about that; you're trying to change the subject from your being a complete politicized asshole throughout this entire pandemic.

Again, what the fuck is wrong with you?

[ChumpDumper]

All I did was state facts which as usual led to your moral preening

That's all you've done through all of this. You tried your moral preening when you got your N95 masks until it was pointed out healthcare workers needed them more then you and you tried to backtrack. Then you tried it with your valved mask lol.

All of your preening isn't going to keep the covids away thoI got the masks that were specifically not approved for use by US healthcare personnel. Not ones with vavles.

:lmao you're trying to mask shame me three times over. I'm trying to do the right thing to protect myself and others in the midst of an ever-changing pandemic and all you do is shame people.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

[SnakeBoy]

So what do you suggest that Texas does now? Open all the way back up? Just come out and say it already.

I already told I don't have the plan. Why is it so hard for you to understand?

Without a vaccine the destination is the same for every state, every country. You guys are so focused on whether we should take the short route or the scenic route but we're all headed to Painzville in the end.

[SnakeBoy]

:lmao You are never direct because you're a passive aggressive little twat who can't stand being called out for it.

:lmao "Face it." The whole current mask discussion is assuming I already have it and don't want to spread it to others. I don't think it will kill me. I never once said I thought it would.

You aren't being direct about that; you're trying to change the subject from your being a complete politicized asshole throughout this entire pandemic.

Again, what the fuck is wrong with you?

lol the meltdown

lol the preening

[tholdren]

:lmao You are never direct because you're a passive aggressive little twat who can't stand being called out for it.

:lmao "Face it." The whole current mask discussion is assuming I already have it and don't want to spread it to others. I don't think it will kill me. I never once said I thought it would.

You aren't being direct about that; you're trying to change the subject from your being a complete politicized asshole throughout this entire pandemic.

Again, what the fuck is wrong with you?

Temper tantrum.....

[ChumpDumper]

lol the meltdown

lol the preeningYes, you did meltdown. All you've done since this started is try to shame people for not knowing as much as you do -- even when you turn out to be dead wrong.:lmao

[ChumpDumper]

Temper tantrum.....Speaking of dead wrong, you were the most wrong of anyone.:lol

[vy65]

Aside from the shin-kicking, I'm curious what the response is to Snakeboy's point? If a vaccine is developed in the near-term (i.e., end of the year), great. But if not, and effective treatments are 3, 5, or even 10 years away, what then? Seems to me that there's going to have to be some hard decisions made - exposing certain groups, like small business owners, to economic oblivion or at-risk people to serious health issues and/or death.

There really hasn't been much of a discussion as to where we see this all going over at least the next 12-18 months. I don't profess to have a plan, but I don't think the opening/closing dance that Texas is doing is workable. I'm all for good hygiene, masks, etc..., but that doesn't seem to me to be a solution either. So what are the options? Another nationwide lockdown for 6 weeks? Letting this thing burn through the population?

[DMC]

I got the masks that were specifically not approved for use by US healthcare personnel. Not ones with vavles.

:lmao you're trying to mask shame me three times over. I'm trying to do the right thing to protect myself and others in the midst of an ever-changing pandemic and all you do is shame people.

What the fuck is wrong with you?
The extra effort anger

[DMC]

people like Fauci...

Random three word response with nothing to actually link it to.


But you enjoy the press conferences on the virus given by Trump that have more viewers than Monday night football?

Followed by non sequitur accusation - again not linked to anything in particular.


I guess presidents don’t lead.

Semi-conclusion, again not really linked to any premises.


and yeah this is what about ism.
how dare I ask the President of the United States to lead to not be a hypocrite
Sounds like you're talking to yourself in the mirror. Is English your first language?

[DMC]

I'm not mask shaming you. You had posted a pic of the mask you wanted. It had valves which defeat the purpose of protecting others.

Who's Balous?

But it looks like a mask. Why are you hating on masks?

[ChumpDumper]

The extra effort angerThe extra effort chime in.

[ChumpDumper]

Aside from the shin-kicking, I'm curious what the response is to Snakeboy's point? If a vaccine is developed in the near-term (i.e., end of the year), great. But if not, and effective treatments are 3, 5, or even 10 years away, what then? Seems to me that there's going to have to be some hard decisions made - exposing certain groups, like small business owners, to economic oblivion or at-risk people to serious health issues and/or death.

There really hasn't been much of a discussion as to where we see this all going over at least the next 12-18 months. I don't profess to have a plan, but I don't think the opening/closing dance that Texas is doing is workable. I'm all for good hygiene, masks, etc..., but that doesn't seem to me to be a solution either. So what are the options? Another nationwide lockdown for 6 weeks? Letting this thing burn through the population?I posted the idea of making things easier for the vulnerable to stay out of it while the rest of us try to herd it up. Seems easier to accommodate them than picking out sectors of the economy to shut down.

[vy65]

I posted the idea of making things easier for the vulnerable to stay out of it while the rest of us try to herd it up. Seems easier to accommodate them than picking out sectors of the economy to shut down.

Oh, I'm absolutely in favor of that. Frankly, don't understand why limited UBI, universal health care, assistance with groceries, etc... aren't made available to 70+ individuals. To me, enacting some kind of sequestration while also providing a level of support while the rest of us return to normal is a good idea. Unfortunately, that demographic is populated with a bunch of boomers who'll :cry muh freedom :cry and act like their inability to go to fuddruckers is cruel and unusual punishment.

[hater]

Unfortunately, we can't trust Americans to ever do the smart thing.

So then communism or fascism are the best forms of governmwng tbqh.

[weebo]

So then communism or fascism are the best forms of governmwng tbqh.

We're half a fascist country--haven't you been paying attention?

[Blake]

I already told I don't have the plan. Why is it so hard for you to understand?

Without a vaccine the destination is the same for every state, every country. You guys are so focused on whether we should take the short route or the scenic route but we're all headed to Painzville in the end.

Lol "you guys"

Short route vs scenic route is a false dilemma. But it's pretty funny how you're taking the scenic route to just saying "might as well just open it all up just the way it was pre covid".

Wuss

[Blake]

Aside from the shin-kicking, I'm curious what the response is to Snakeboy's point? If a vaccine is developed in the near-term (i.e., end of the year), great. But if not, and effective treatments are 3, 5, or even 10 years away, what then? Seems to me that there's going to have to be some hard decisions made - exposing certain groups, like small business owners, to economic oblivion or at-risk people to serious health issues and/or death.

There really hasn't been much of a discussion as to where we see this all going over at least the next 12-18 months. I don't profess to have a plan, but I don't think the opening/closing dance that Texas is doing is workable. I'm all for good hygiene, masks, etc..., but that doesn't seem to me to be a solution either. So what are the options? Another nationwide lockdown for 6 weeks? Letting this thing burn through the population?

I don't like the cherry picking of types of businesses that must close for X amount of days. Let everyone stay open but just mandate strict requirements starting with wearing a fucking mask

[ElNono]

A vaccine in less than another year seems like a long shot to me. A covid specific drug cure seems like a longer shot.

They should have included the most likely scenario which is that we have to reach herd immunity infection rate of ~70% and how long that is going to take. Then they could have just looked at mortality rate & deaths to gauge how far we have to go. If they took a best case scenario of .1% mortality then we are about 33% to herd immunity and still have another ~200k deaths to go. Although it seems pretty clear we are not that far along so bump the mortality rate up to .3% and we have even longer haul in front of us.

It just isn't feasible to shelter in place to the end of this.

The odds of developing a vaccine (or, I would even argue, the virus mutating into a milder form) are much, much greater than reaching 70% herd immunity. You have to understand that people do not want to get infected out of their own volition, that in order to return to normalcy through herd immunity, that ~70% number doesn't apply to just the US, but also first world countries and possibly developing countries (globalization is a bitch). We might reach herd immunity at some point in the next 50 years, like it happened with the flu, especially if there's a vaccine, but it's not a realistic target.

EDIT: Add 'finding a suitable treatment' to the options above that have much better odds.

[ElNono]

Aside from the shin-kicking, I'm curious what the response is to Snakeboy's point? If a vaccine is developed in the near-term (i.e., end of the year), great. But if not, and effective treatments are 3, 5, or even 10 years away, what then? Seems to me that there's going to have to be some hard decisions made - exposing certain groups, like small business owners, to economic oblivion or at-risk people to serious health issues and/or death.

There really hasn't been much of a discussion as to where we see this all going over at least the next 12-18 months. I don't profess to have a plan, but I don't think the opening/closing dance that Texas is doing is workable. I'm all for good hygiene, masks, etc..., but that doesn't seem to me to be a solution either. So what are the options? Another nationwide lockdown for 6 weeks? Letting this thing burn through the population?

See my previous post.

[vy65]

I don't like the cherry picking of types of businesses that must close for X amount of days. Let everyone stay open but just mandate strict requirements starting with wearing a fucking mask

So what do you do with bars or restaurants?

[vy65]

See my previous post.

So then what?

[CosmicCowboy]

:lmao the irony is SnakeBoy tried to do exactly the same thing but he's on your Trump team so everything is cool.

I know you just do that shit to try to irritate me and "win" the internet but for about the 100th time I have never been on the Trump team and you know it. You really are pathetic.

[ElNono]

So then what?

So herd immunity is not a goal or solution, it will just happen if all the other options fail (or even if they don't).

We keep investing in vaccines and improving treatment drugs and outcomes until this is manageable, and we keep taking precautions in the meantime. Sometimes that will mean to slow things down when there's massive flares, and that also means the death ticker continues to go up.

This is not the first pandemic or the first coronavirus, it's not like we're flying completely in the dark here, so that makes me hopeful that we'll see either a vaccine or a medicine that at least prevents death from this disease in the next 1-3 years.

In the meantime, bootstrap, let take out and delivery be our new normal (I can get used to that), and accept we're in a health emergency situation.

[Blake]

So what do you do with bars or restaurants?

I haven't really looked, have restaurants been a problem? The bars that weren't following guidelines were getting shut down by TABC.

Require masks unless eating food, no groups of more than [insert number], maintain distance, etc.

The hardest part to me is the interaction between customer and waiter/waitress. May have to figure out a way to limit their interaction with the table. Dunno the details but I know if chipotle can do it..

[Blake]

I know you just do that shit to try to irritate me

:cry

[ElNono]

The point is, you can't force people not to wear masks or take care of themselves and actively avoid being infected, so letting the virus 'burn' through the population is not a plan you can realistically execute.

And as long as there's no suitable good treatment or vaccine, the tension of further waves and pressure in the healthcare system will be there. To potentially allay that particular fear, you could increase hospital capacity to obscene numbers, but that doesn't really work out in our largely private and for-profit hospital system.

[vy65]

So herd immunity is not a goal or solution, it will just happen if all the other options fail (or even if they don't).

We keep investing in vaccines and improving treatment drugs and outcomes until this is manageable, and we keep taking precautions in the meantime. Sometimes that will mean to slow things down when there's massive flares, and that also means the death ticker continues to go up.

This is not the first pandemic or the first coronavirus, it's not like we're flying completely in the dark here, so that makes me hopeful that we'll see either a vaccine or a medicine that at least prevents death from this disease in the next 1-3 years.

In the meantime, bootstrap, let take out and delivery be our new normal (I can get used to that), and accept we're in a health emergency situation.

That’s all good in theory if you have an optimistic view of when therapeutics will be available. I’m not so optimistic. We could do as you say only by sacrificing the entertainment and hospitality industries. Bars can’t operate on takeout. Nor can movie theatres, music venues, actual theatres, etc. Now you may say, we’re in a health emergency so something like the wholesale elimination of certain economic sectors is inevitable/necessary. Which is fine, I just don’t strike the balance that way.

[vy65]

I haven't really looked, have restaurants been a problem? The bars that weren't following guidelines were getting shut down by TABC.

Require masks unless eating food, no groups of more than [insert number], maintain distance, etc.

The hardest part to me is the interaction between customer and waiter/waitress. May have to figure out a way to limit their interaction with the table. Dunno the details but I know if chipotle can do it..

Yeah, it’s tough. One thought is to move all entertainment outdoors, which works for movies (ie rooftop cinema), bars, and music venues. But that’s not feasible en masse

[ElNono]

That’s all good in theory if you have an optimistic view of when therapeutics will be available. I’m not so optimistic. We could do as you say only by sacrificing the entertainment and hospitality industries. Bars can’t operate on takeout. Nor can movie theatres, music venues, actual theatres, etc. Now you may say, we’re in a health emergency so something like the wholesale elimination of certain economic sectors is inevitable/necessary. Which is fine, I just don’t strike the balance that way.

I just don't really think it's entirely up to authorities or their plans. Some people that are non-essential have gone back to work, some with precautions, some without, because of necessity. Airlines have been generally flying, people just don't want to hop on a plane if they can avoid it. Same with cruise ships. Early on, I recall reading people quitting their jobs over concerns on how their companies are dealing with the pandemic. For the tech sector, working from home is not that much of a huge difference, and in general have been doing well, so I don't think you'll see any kind of urgency there to get infected. I do know a few companies in that sector that are actually very concerned about their employees getting potentially infected and sick, and the cascading effect that has on their bottom lines.

I do think it'll be pivotal on authorities how they handle inevitable flares, capacity issues, testing, contact tracing, etc that might pop up in the meantime, because those are structural problems, makes politicos look bad, and have measurable deaths attached to them.

[vy65]

I just don't really think it's entirely up to authorities or their plans. Some people that are non-essential have gone back to work, some with precautions, some without, because of necessity. Airlines have been generally flying, people just don't want to hop on a plane if they can avoid it. Same with cruise ships. Early on, I recall reading people quitting their jobs over concerns on how their companies are dealing with the pandemic. For the tech sector, working from home is not that much of a huge difference, and in general have been doing well, so I don't think you'll see any kind of urgency there to get infected. I do know a few companies in that sector that are actually very concerned about their employees getting potentially infected and sick, and the cascading effect that has on their bottom lines.

I do think it'll be pivotal on authorities how they handle inevitable flares, capacity issues, testing, contact tracing, etc that might pop up in the meantime, because those are structural problems, makes politicos look bad, and have measurable deaths attached to them.

All good points. But I think we’re talking past each other somewhat. So there are many economic sectors that will survive just fine. Many of which you’ve identified. My thinking is more directed by what Abbott wheeled out here in Texas yesterday. Because so much of our entertainment is social, it’s hard for me to envision what can be done - either at the individual business level or at the governmental level - to strike a balance between safety and economic viability. To be clear, I’m talking about entertainment businesses like bars, restaurants, theatres, etc.

Maybe the takeaway is that those places are fucked, and there’s nothing to do to save them. I personally don’t like that approach at all. But, I do think it inevitable if we say we’re going to hold out until we have good medical treatment for this thing.

[ElNono]

All good points. But I think we’re talking past each other somewhat. So there are many economic sectors that will survive just fine. Many of which you’ve identified. My thinking is more directed by what Abbott wheeled out here in Texas yesterday. Because so much of our entertainment is social, it’s hard for me to envision what can be done - either at the individual business level or at the governmental level - to strike a balance between safety and economic viability. To be clear, I’m talking about entertainment businesses like bars, restaurants, theatres, etc.

Maybe the takeaway is that those places are fucked, and there’s nothing to do to save them. I personally don’t like that approach at all. But, I do think it inevitable if we say we’re going to hold out until we have good medical treatment for this thing.

Well, if we're talking in economic terms, I think it's highly dependent on what people end up buying into past lockdown fatigue. If social distancing becomes the preferred route, some of these businesses will have to respect it, and work at diminished capacity. But you also will see scarcity for the most popular places, which could be a temporary opportunity also (either through expansion or charging more).

If it's a free for all again, then that's what it is, but the virus is not going to stop spreading or being a problem, so here is where government leadership will have to deal with all the stuff we were talking about earlier, hospital capacity, testing, deaths, etc, and will have to occasionally make a call. If that means some businesses can't adapt and don't survive, it sucks, but it is what it is. The whole reason to do this management is not to find a cure, or even stop spread, it's just to manage the situation with the resources we have. You either increase the resources, or you manage the ones you have as best you can, with whatever the collateral is. There's really not a lot of options here. Politically and generally, I would think, it's much harder to sell deaths as justified over bankruptcy.

[ChumpDumper]

I know you just do that shit to try to irritate me and "win" the internet but for about the 100th time I have never been on the Trump team and you know it. You really are pathetic.Really the worst thing I have ever read from you about Trump is that he's a blowhard and a jackass. Absolutely nothing about what he does as president.

[TimDunkem]

Got this alert as 700+ new cases reported in SA today.


https://i.imgur.com/Cj7CYPB.jpg

[baseline bum]

I already told I don't have the plan. Why is it so hard for you to understand?

Without a vaccine the destination is the same for every state, every country. You guys are so focused on whether we should take the short route or the scenic route but we're all headed to Painzville in the end.

I'd hope we don't have to take the shortest route since it likely involves many more excess deaths due to overflowing our hospital systems. Now if you asked me how to accomplish that or if it's even possible without slowing the infection down so much we just keep having wave after wave I'd have to give a big shoulder shrug.

[baseline bum]

I don't like the cherry picking of types of businesses that must close for X amount of days. Let everyone stay open but just mandate strict requirements starting with wearing a fucking mask

Indoor seating at bars, indoor restaurant dining rooms, and gyms absolutely need to be cherry picked if the hospitals look to be overrun because the first two you can't really operate with masks and the last even when you're wearing a mask you're breathing hard and exhaling way more droplets than usual. And I'd be surprised if many people would wear masks to gyms anyways. Plus all three are built on the idea of people staying inside for long periods.

[weebo]

Told y'all about two weeks ago Texas was going to get crushed...and here we are. FYI, a couple of the hospitals I work in are at over 100% capacity. I hope we don't start seeing bodies getting thrown in refrigeration trailers.

[TimDunkem]

Got this alert as 700+ new cases reported in SA today.


https://i.imgur.com/Cj7CYPB.jpg

Before this gets buried.

[baseline bum]

Yeah, it’s tough. One thought is to move all entertainment outdoors, which works for movies (ie rooftop cinema), bars, and music venues. But that’s not feasible en masse

I don't think it really works for music, no one's going on tour to have 1/30th of the normal crowd due to social distancing. I think movie theaters are done for unless there is a vaccine deployed by early 2021.

[Blake]

Told y'all about two weeks ago Texas was going to get crushed...and here we are. FYI, a couple of the hospitals I work in are at over 100% capacity. I hope we don't start seeing bodies getting thrown in refrigeration trailers.

A lot of people called this shit. The important one that didn't was Abbott.

[pgardn]

Random three word response with nothing to actually link it to.
Followed by non sequitur accusation - again not linked to anything in particular.

Semi-conclusion, again not really linked to any premises.

Sounds like you're talking to yourself in the mirror. Is English your first language?

it’s a fucking message board on a cell phone with me using the microphone function mrs Crutch-field

you keep relying on language arts Mrs. Crutchfield when you understand perfectly what I’m saying

by the way do you see how it doesn’t capitalize and will actually spell. When I say period

you keep on with the grammar and punctuation it’ll make you feel better when you get punched in the face with being wrong

[baseline bum]

Told y'all about two weeks ago Texas was going to get crushed...and here we are. FYI, a couple of the hospitals I work in are at over 100% capacity. I hope we don't start seeing bodies getting thrown in refrigeration trailers.

So is San Antonio about to become Detroit (completely buttfucked), New York City (Detroit + having to share ventilators), or Northern Italy (having to deny treatment due to insufficient resources)?

[vy65]

I don't think it really works for music, no one's going on tour to have 1/30th of the normal crowd due to social distancing. I think movie theaters are done for unless there is a vaccine deployed by early 2021.

I agree on indoor entertainment venues. Seems like we’ve decided they’re done.

From what has been reported about the Floyd protests, I’d think there’s a path forward on outdoor venues. Don’t see why social distancing protocols are needed there.

[baseline bum]

I agree on indoor entertainment venues. Seems like we’ve decided they’re done.

From what has been reported about the Floyd protests, I’d think there’s a path forward on outdoor venues. Don’t see why social distancing protocols are needed there.

You don't see big class action lawsuits brought against concert promoters should there be breakouts when packing people closely together even outside? That's why I'm not expecting to see cruise liners really resume operations out of US ports for another year. Though of course worse for them since cruise liners pack people inside.

[weebo]

So is San Antonio about to become Detroit (completely buttfucked), New York City (Detroit + having to share ventilators), or Northern Italy (having to deny treatment due to insufficient resources)?

To be honest, SATX has done a fairly decent job...I think they'll manage.

[baseline bum]

To be honest, SATX has done a fairly decent job...I think they'll manage.

Glad to hear.

[CosmicCowboy]

I agree on indoor entertainment venues. Seems like we’ve decided they’re done.

From what has been reported about the Floyd protests, I’d think there’s a path forward on outdoor venues. Don’t see why social distancing protocols are needed there.

For you young guys it's a great time to buy stock in these beat down businesses....covid will be over eventually. Cruise lines, airlines, boeing, hotels, etc. Just buy and hold. They will explode when this shit is finally over

[vy65]

You don't see big class action lawsuits brought against concert promoters should there be breakouts when packing people closely together even outside? That's why I'm not expecting to see cruise liners really resume operations out of US ports for another year. Though of course worse for them since cruise liners pack people inside.

Absolutely yes. But I’m sure I and others would sign off on a waiver and release to see a live show again. Most 20 and 30 somethings have accepted the risk and just want to get drunk and high again, so getting the appropriate waivers wouldn’t be too hard. You could pack in some other things like mandatory arbitration provisions and class action waivers to to seal the deal.

[vy65]

For you young guys it's a great time to buy stock in these beat down businesses....covid will be over eventually. Cruise lines, airlines, boeing, hotels, etc. Just buy and hold. They will explode when this shit is finally over

That’s what my pops has said. I’m not a believer yet.

[baseline bum]

For you young guys it's a great time to buy stock in these beat down businesses....covid will be over eventually. Cruise lines, airlines, boeing, hotels, etc. Just buy and hold. They will explode when this shit is finally over

That assumes we're going to have the economy bounce back quickly. I don't know, I'm expecting a lot of small business to go under leading to steadily high unemployment leading to many of those consumers who actually have money to hold on to it. This nation has still never felt like it has recovered from 2008 much less being able to recover quickly from 2020.

[Blake]

Indoor seating at bars, indoor restaurant dining rooms, and gyms absolutely need to be cherry picked if the hospitals look to be overrun because the first two you can't really operate with masks and the last even when you're wearing a mask you're breathing hard and exhaling way more droplets than usual. And I'd be surprised if many people would wear masks to gyms anyways. Plus all three are built on the idea of people staying inside for long periods.

If it's too risky to allow people to sit and congregate for an hour or so or work out in gyms so be it. Whatever the experts agree upon.

[Blake]

For you young guys it's a great time to buy stock in these beat down businesses....covid will be over eventually. Cruise lines, airlines, boeing, hotels, etc. Just buy and hold. They will explode when this shit is finally over

Depends on the industry. You have to be careful not to buy into something that won't be around at all in 3 months either.

[Blake]

Absolutely yes. But I’m sure I and others would sign off on a waiver and release to see a live show again. Most 20 and 30 somethings have accepted the risk and just want to get drunk and high again, so getting the appropriate waivers wouldn’t be too hard. You could pack in some other things like mandatory arbitration provisions and class action waivers to to seal the deal.

Yeah the problem comes back to where those 20 somethings go after the concert

[rude1_79]

anyone think they will cut back restaurants back to 25% next week? start closing gyms?

[CosmicCowboy]

That assumes we're going to have the economy bounce back quickly. I don't know, I'm expecting a lot of small business to go under leading to steadily high unemployment leading to many of those consumers who actually have money to hold on to it. This nation has still never felt like it has recovered from 2008 much less being able to recover quickly from 2020.

New ones will replace them. The facilities and demand will still be there. This isn't going to last forever. I'm still kicking myself for not buying bank stock for pennies in the dollar last time.

[CosmicCowboy]

One thing I would totally avoid is REITS. The high dollar office space market is doomed now that companies have realized they can exist with people working from home, zoom, etc.

[CosmicCowboy]

Speaking of stupid real estate stuff, San Antonio is about to have huge glut of class A warehouse space. All these REITs read the glowing magazine articles about how hot the market in SA was and they all pilled in at once. I'm seeing at least 10 million square feet of nice warehouse space going up around town with no one to fill it.

[vy65]

Yeah the problem comes back to where those 20 somethings go after the concert

Exactly. That’s the heart of the issue: how do you limit the rights of the young because of the damage they unwittingly do to others. I think it’s wrong to limit them from living their lives so long as they limit their interactions with the elderly, sick, etc. How you enforce that, I dunno.

[Blake]

Huh was just at HEB and saw a few baskets with extra packs of toilet paper

[vy65]

One thing I would totally avoid is REITS. The high dollar office space market is doomed now that companies have realized they can exist with people working from home, zoom, etc.

I think that’s overblown. Everyone I know hates working from home full time. Myself included. I think we’ll see some hybrid of the two in the future. I’ve even read that more class a space will be at a premium in the future as businesses will have to rethink cubicle spaces.

[pgardn]

Huh was just at HEB and saw a few baskets with extra packs of toilet paper

my wife just received a weird Amber alert type message on her cell phone about staying home tomorrow in SA? anyone else receive this, I didn’t but I’m out of town.

[ElNono]

my wife just received a weird Amber alert type message on her cell phone about staying home tomorrow in SA? anyone else receive this, I didn’t but I’m out of town.

something like this that was posted above?


Got this alert as 700+ new cases reported in SA today.


https://i.imgur.com/Cj7CYPB.jpg

[pgardn]

something like this that was posted above?

yep didn’t see it

thanks

[baseline bum]

yep didn’t see it

thanks

I think pretty much every cellphone in the San Antonio area got that text about the hospitals nearing capacity. I got it about 3 hours ago too.

[baseline bum]

Got this alert as 700+ new cases reported in SA today.


https://i.imgur.com/Cj7CYPB.jpg

I would have loved to see tholdren's rage when he got that text.

[DarrinS]

I think pretty much every cellphone in the San Antonio area got that text about the hospitals nearing capacity. I got it about 3 hours ago too.

Didn't get it on my Android phone.

[DarrinS]

Didn't get it on my Android phone.

But, my wife got it on her iPhone.

[Xevious]

So is San Antonio about to become Detroit (completely buttfucked), New York City (Detroit + having to share ventilators), or Northern Italy (having to deny treatment due to insufficient resources)?
San Antonio will be fine on ventilators/other physical resources. We're pretty close to spilling over into that hospital they set up at Freeman though. The problem is staffing. Hospitals are already stretched thin. They're going to have to bring in nurses from out of state for big money like New York did.

[SnakeBoy]

The odds of developing a vaccine (or, I would even argue, the virus mutating into a milder form) are much, much greater than reaching 70% herd immunity. You have to understand that people do not want to get infected out of their own volition, that in order to return to normalcy through herd immunity, that ~70% number doesn't apply to just the US, but also first world countries and possibly developing countries (globalization is a bitch). We might reach herd immunity at some point in the next 50 years, like it happened with the flu, especially if there's a vaccine, but it's not a realistic target.

EDIT: Add 'finding a suitable treatment' to the options above that have much better odds.

I've never suggested such a thing. I have said any plan that has the goal of herd immunity (i.e. intentionally letting people get infected) is a bad plan. At the same time any plan that is unsustainable economically or otherwise is just as bad.

We just had a study that while small does not bode well for getting a vaccine
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-19-antibodies-fade-months-study/story?id=71406787

If it is the case that we don't develop lasting antibodies, just like with the other HCoV's, then it seems we can't hold out hope for a vaccine and it also means herd immunity is unattainable. Covid-19 is just the new norm. So what's the plan then? I don't know.

Maybe it mutates into a milder illness like the others but how long did the others take? A year, 10, 100? We have no idea.


I'd hope we don't have to take the shortest route since it likely involves many more excess deaths due to overflowing our hospital systems. Now if you asked me how to accomplish that or if it's even possible without slowing the infection down so much we just keep having wave after wave I'd have to give a big shoulder shrug.

Well the short route is the most painful for sure but if the long route means years then it's pretty fucking painful as well.

[baseline bum]

I've never suggested such a thing. I have said any plan that has the goal of herd immunity (i.e. intentionally letting people get infected) is a bad plan. At the same time any plan that is unsustainable economically or otherwise is just as bad.

We just had a study that while small does not bode well for getting a vaccine
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-19-antibodies-fade-months-study/story?id=71406787

If it is the case that we don't develop lasting antibodies, just like with the other HCoV's, then it seems we can't hold out hope for a vaccine and it also means herd immunity is unattainable. Covid-19 is just the new norm. So what's the plan then? I don't know.

Maybe it mutates into a milder illness like the others but how long did the others take? A year, 10, 100? We have no idea.



Well the short route is the most painful for sure but if the long route means years then it's pretty fucking painful as well.

If the antibodies are really only for two months there is no way period out of the pandemic.

[SnakeBoy]

If the antibodies are really only for two months there is no way period out of the pandemic.

It would mean Covid isn't a mild Flu, it's a common cold with a kick.

[vy65]

I've never suggested such a thing. I have said any plan that has the goal of herd immunity (i.e. intentionally letting people get infected) is a bad plan. At the same time any plan that is unsustainable economically or otherwise is just as bad.

We just had a study that while small does not bode well for getting a vaccine
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-19-antibodies-fade-months-study/story?id=71406787

If it is the case that we don't develop lasting antibodies, just like with the other HCoV's, then it seems we can't hold out hope for a vaccine and it also means herd immunity is unattainable. Covid-19 is just the new norm. So what's the plan then? I don't know.

Maybe it mutates into a milder illness like the others but how long did the others take? A year, 10, 100? We have no idea.



Well the short route is the most painful for sure but if the long route means years then it's pretty fucking painful as well.

If that’s the case, I don’t see much use in trying to avoid the buttfucking we’re all going to get.

[DarrinS]

I've been out and about since the beginning. Even went to bars. You just need to use common sense tbh.

Certain demographics are not being careful.

[ElNono]

I've never suggested such a thing. I have said any plan that has the goal of herd immunity (i.e. intentionally letting people get infected) is a bad plan. At the same time any plan that is unsustainable economically or otherwise is just as bad.

We just had a study that while small does not bode well for getting a vaccine
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-19-antibodies-fade-months-study/story?id=71406787

If it is the case that we don't develop lasting antibodies, just like with the other HCoV's, then it seems we can't hold out hope for a vaccine and it also means herd immunity is unattainable. Covid-19 is just the new norm. So what's the plan then? I don't know.

Maybe it mutates into a milder illness like the others but how long did the others take? A year, 10, 100? We have no idea.

The actual flu vaccine took 20 years to develop, IIRC. Sure, our tech and bioengineering where nowhere where they are now. Then if it's not a vaccine, at least a good therapeutic treatment, or, worst case, protocol to at least attack the worst cases, which is really the conundrum here.

What I was pointing out is that herd immunity is neither a plan or a goal. As long as the virus exists, we'll reach herd immunity infection rate naturally as a process, even with a vaccine or medicines, so herd immunity really isn't a solution or answer to anything. It's just going to happen no matter what you do. The question is how many dead people is going to take to get there, and that's what the actual solutions are trying to help with.

We do want to do something about it if our healthcare system is in peril (because then you multiply the deaths due to OTHER factors outside of the virus, since the capacity is overwhelmed) or our death count ramps up. And we're dealing with a moving target too. We know viruses mutate, and while sometimes for the best, sometimes it can mutate for the worst. The Spanish Flu 2nd or 3rd wave (can't remember off the top of my head) actually killed young people, unlike the first wave that killed old people. That's why we want to put the onus in finding solutions and being prepped to contain this as best we can as events develop.

[spurraider21]

I've been out and about since the beginning. Even went to bars. You just need to use common sense tbh.

Certain demographics are not being careful.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/577/526/92a.gif

[Blake]

I would have loved to see tholdren's rage when he got that text.

Lol

[Blake]

This is the Karen that cut Ted Cruz's hair a month ago

"DALLAS — A salon owner who made national headlines for protesting a state order closing non-essential businesses in Texas during the COVID-19 pandemic, is now speaking out in support of bar owners.

Shelley Luther said a new order Governor Greg Abbott imposed on Friday that calls for bars shut down is discriminatory.

....What makes a bar that sells 51% alcohol any different from a restaurant that serves 50%?” Clark asked. “There’s really no difference.”

Luther claims bar owners are telling her they are willing to do whatever is needed to fight back against Abbott’s executive order, even if it means peacefully protesting and opening their businesses.

The salon owner says she believe the governor is backtracking on the rationale that had him coming to fight for her decision to keep her shop open.

“I think he’s totally backtracking,” Luther said. “If he is saying that he didn’t believe that I should be shut down, or I should be penalized or go to jail, then why is it okay to penalize these small business owners that are bar owners as well? We all have to be treated equally. It’s all the same.”

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/dallas-salon-owner-says-governors-order-to-shut-down-bars-is-discriminatory/287-11eb9dff-7a02-4d80-9052-11ccf08cf326

Because bars are totally the same thing as salons

[Blake]

I've never suggested such a thing. I have said any plan that has the goal of herd immunity (i.e. intentionally letting people get infected) is a bad plan. At the same time any plan that is unsustainable economically or otherwise is just as bad.

We just had a study that while small does not bode well for getting a vaccine
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-19-antibodies-fade-months-study/story?id=71406787

If it is the case that we don't develop lasting antibodies, just like with the other HCoV's, then it seems we can't hold out hope for a vaccine and it also means herd immunity is unattainable. Covid-19 is just the new norm. So what's the plan then? I don't know.

Maybe it mutates into a milder illness like the others but how long did the others take? A year, 10, 100? We have no idea.



Well the short route is the most painful for sure but if the long route means years then it's pretty fucking painful as well.

If herd immunity is unattainable then it's not short route vs long route. It's open economy vs closed economy.

[ChumpDumper]

This is the Karen that cut Ted Cruz's hair a month ago

"DALLAS — A salon owner who made national headlines for protesting a state order closing non-essential businesses in Texas during the COVID-19 pandemic, is now speaking out in support of bar owners.

Shelley Luther said a new order Governor Greg Abbott imposed on Friday that calls for bars shut down is discriminatory.

....What makes a bar that sells 51% alcohol any different from a restaurant that serves 50%?” Clark asked. “There’s really no difference.”

Luther claims bar owners are telling her they are willing to do whatever is needed to fight back against Abbott’s executive order, even if it means peacefully protesting and opening their businesses.

The salon owner says she believe the governor is backtracking on the rationale that had him coming to fight for her decision to keep her shop open.

“I think he’s totally backtracking,” Luther said. “If he is saying that he didn’t believe that I should be shut down, or I should be penalized or go to jail, then why is it okay to penalize these small business owners that are bar owners as well? We all have to be treated equally. It’s all the same.”

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/dallas-salon-owner-says-governors-order-to-shut-down-bars-is-discriminatory/287-11eb9dff-7a02-4d80-9052-11ccf08cf326

Because bars are totally the same thing as salons:lol what office is Karen running for?

[Spurtacular]

This is the Karen that cut Ted Cruz's hair a month ago

"DALLAS — A salon owner who made national headlines for protesting a state order closing non-essential businesses in Texas during the COVID-19 pandemic, is now speaking out in support of bar owners.

Shelley Luther said a new order Governor Greg Abbott imposed on Friday that calls for bars shut down is discriminatory.

....What makes a bar that sells 51% alcohol any different from a restaurant that serves 50%?” Clark asked. “There’s really no difference.”

Luther claims bar owners are telling her they are willing to do whatever is needed to fight back against Abbott’s executive order, even if it means peacefully protesting and opening their businesses.

The salon owner says she believe the governor is backtracking on the rationale that had him coming to fight for her decision to keep her shop open.

“I think he’s totally backtracking,” Luther said. “If he is saying that he didn’t believe that I should be shut down, or I should be penalized or go to jail, then why is it okay to penalize these small business owners that are bar owners as well? We all have to be treated equally. It’s all the same.”

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/dallas-salon-owner-says-governors-order-to-shut-down-bars-is-discriminatory/287-11eb9dff-7a02-4d80-9052-11ccf08cf326

Because bars are totally the same thing as salons

"Karen" > Cuckold.

How about some self awareness already, blake.

[Blake]

"Karen" > Cuckold.

How about some self awareness already, blake.

Take the ankle biting back to your sandbox play thread and let the adults talk in this one.

[Spurtacular]

Take the ankle biting back to your sandbox play thread and let the adults talk in this one.

Are you mad I didn't more directly regard your post?

So, you're mad that your wife's lover's daughter may catch a flu if people are allowed to go out is what I'm hearing.

It's a tough time to be a cuckold, amiriite?

[pgardn]

Are you mad I didn't more directly regard your post?

So, you're mad that your wife's lover's daughter may catch a flu if people are allowed to go out is what I'm hearing.

It's a tough time to be a cuckold, amiriite?

you’re just a sick puppy

I have hope a vaccine is doable quickly
Even if it only lasts a couple of months on a molecular level this virus is ideal candidate from what I have read. It appears to be very stable in the coding regions.

[boutons_deux]

I have hope a vaccine is doable quickly


quickly would mean less than the avg 5 - 10 years.

A wide variety of 20K people have to vaccinated with the candidate, then somehow exposed to the virus, then monitored for weeks for vaccine side effects, anti-bodies, and then somehow RE-infected to see if the candidate works, with no side effects.

THEN

production has to be ramped up, "medical" glass already in short supply. No PDA to ramp it up. Maybe XI has some to sell?

THEN

distribution to Bs of people. You can bet if you are poor country, you are at the bottom of the distribution list

[Blake]

Went to HEB this morning, sure enough there's another fucking run on toilet paper and paper towels

[baseline bum]

Went to HEB this morning, sure enough there's another fucking run on toilet paper and paper towels

Shelves wiped out again in the tp section? Honestly I have been buying like a hoarder for everything since early March to limit trips, so pretty glad I got my grandma's deep freezer when she passed. First time I have really made much use of it is this pandemic.

[TimDunkem]

TP being gone again is proof that Texans never fucking learn.

[Blake]

There was a few rolls of ultra strong Charmin, few rolls of cottonelle then the rest was HEB brands. Paper towel section completely wiped except for a few HEB brand rolls

[baseline bum]

TP being gone again is proof that Texans never fucking learn.

It's just a case of what's good for the individual being pretty bad for the whole.

[TimDunkem]

"‘We could be in for a New York City-type situation‘: UT Health SA doctor says on San Antonio COVID-19 spike"

Health officials say based on current health models, SA will see a doubling in hospitalizations next week
https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2020/06/28/we-could-be-in-for-a-new-york-city-type-situation-ut-health-doctor-says-on-san-antonio-covid-19-spike/


As we are now almost four months into the pandemic, Dr. Leverence said physicians continue to learn more about the virus. However, both models from UTSA and UT Health are showing another doubling in hospitalizations come next week.

“Both models tell us that we’re looking at another doubling of hospitalizations by next week. The models diverge a little bit after that, and it depends a little bit on what we all do,” Dr. Leverence said. “What I mean by that is if we’re currently wearing our masks when we go out, staying home when we can, washing our hands regularly, not meeting in large groups, then hopefully we’ll see a plateauing of these hospitalizations. Not next week. Next week is going to happen. ”The models could change; however, if residents don’t abide by health guidelines, Texas and San Antonio could become the new epicenter for the virus, according to Dr. Leverence. “If we’re not doing all of those things, then no, we could be in store for a New York City-type of a situation here, no question about it. That’s what the models are predicting,” Dr. Leverence said.

With sports and school just around the corner, a lot of questions are still looming.


“You know, right on the heels of this current wave is going to be most certainly a fall wave, you know, an early winter wave. That’s what we saw in the flu pandemic of 1918, and that’s what most of us are expecting this fall. This current wave is probably going to last until August or September,” Dr. Leverence said. “To me, I don’t think it’s going to be safe to open up for those kinds of public gatherings later this fall. But we’ll find out. We’ll find out.”

[DarrinS]

"‘We could be in for a New York City-type situation‘: UT Health SA doctor says on San Antonio COVID-19 spike"

Health officials say based on current health models, SA will see a doubling in hospitalizations next week
https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2020/06/28/we-could-be-in-for-a-new-york-city-type-situation-ut-health-doctor-says-on-san-antonio-covid-19-spike/


Absurd fear porn headline

[baseline bum]

Absurd fear porn headline

Why is it fear porn if he's saying that's what the models indicate? Was it fear porn when there were tons of warnings the exponential growths in deaths in the US in early March indicated the US had an Italy like wave in store for it? I hate seeing this same everything's ok, this is overhyped rhetoric (especially now) that we heard in early March when it was clear the US was about to get hammered and then did get hammered but there was a chorus from the right about it's only 50 deaths, it's only 100 deaths.

[vy65]

Why is it fear porn if he's saying that's what the models indicate? Was it fear porn when there were tons of warnings the exponential growths in deaths in the US in early March indicated the US had an Italy like wave in store for it? I hate seeing this same everything's ok, this is overhyped rhetoric (especially now) that we heard in early March when it was clear the US was about to get hammered and then did get hammered but there was a chorus from the right about it's only 50 deaths, it's only 100 deaths.

Eh, the article says that’s what the models indicate if precautions aren’t followed. Not quite fear porn but not quite accurate either.

[DarrinS]

SA has had 107 deaths TOTAL. NYC, in its peak, had over 400 deaths per day.

We will never be like NYC.

[Blake]

SA has had 107 deaths TOTAL. NYC, in its peak, had over 400 deaths per day.

We will never be like NYC.

We're talking about hospitalizations

[TimDunkem]

Eh, the article says that’s what the models indicate if precautions aren’t followed. Not quite fear porn but not quite accurate either.
Not to shit in the punch bowl, but it's hard to expect people to do the right thing at this point. If they can't pack bars they'll pack whatever else they can. I just hope they wear their damn masks...

[TimDunkem]

SA has had 107 deaths TOTAL. NYC, in its peak, had over 400 deaths per day.

We will never be like NYC.
Fat Antonio? Eh maybe not that high, but there's nothing to stop it from getting bad except the people themselves. We'll see how people react now that the health system is bending under the weight (no pun intended) since NEXT WEEK is going to happen and will really open eyes.

[baseline bum]

SA has had 107 deaths TOTAL. NYC, in its peak, had over 400 deaths per day.

We will never be like NYC.

Of course we're not going to have as many deaths as NYC, they're an 8x larger metro area than us. But man going to the it's only 107 deaths card already when we're still super early in this surge? That's the same shit ducks did when I was warning him upstairs that the US was about to get buttfucked in March.

[baseline bum]

Eh, the article says that’s what the models indicate if precautions aren’t followed. Not quite fear porn but not quite accurate either.

The only precautions being taken in Texas are mask requirements within the borders of large cities (and their corresponding counties) and the bars being closed down.

[vy65]

Not to shit in the punch bowl, but it's hard to expect people to do the right thing at this point. If they can't pack bars they'll pack whatever else they can. I just hope they wear their damn masks...

It’s beyond ridiculous that masks have become a politicized issue. That said, you can’t expect people to not socialize or congregate for months on end — especially when leadership doesn’t utilize lockdowns you prevent further spikes by increasing testing capacity.

[baseline bum]

It’s beyond ridiculous that masks have become a politicized issue. That said, you can’t expect people to not socialize or congregate for months on end — especially when leadership doesn’t utilize lockdowns you prevent further spikes by increasing testing capacity.

Which makes the doctor's warning reasonable IMO.

[vy65]

The only precautions being taken in Texas are mask requirements within the borders of large cities (and their corresponding counties) and the bars being closed down.

The health guidelines mentioned in the article were masks, hand washing, and staying home when feasible.

[vy65]

Which makes the doctor's warning reasonable IMO.

Fair, but then why not just come out with it and say the city needs to lockdown again? If it’s reasonable to assume people are going to go out - especially during a holiday weekend - and of doing so puts the city at risk of becoming NYC2, doesn’t the doctor have a duty to advocate for what would stop that scenario, e.g. lockdown?

[TimDunkem]

Fair, but then why not just come out with it and say the city needs to lockdown again? If it’s reasonable to assume people are going to go out - especially during a holiday weekend - and of doing so puts the city at risk of becoming NYC2, doesn’t the doctor have a duty to advocate for what would stop that scenario, e.g. lockdown?
Has Abbott giving the cities that authority again? :lol Or are we all just waiting until it's too late?

[vy65]

Has Abbott giving the cities that authority again? :lol Or are we all just waiting until it's too late?

Fair question. But I think the cities can force his hand by instituting stay at home orders and challenging him to issue an executive order that does otherwise.

[vy65]

And regardless of what Abbott does or doesn’t do, a doctor can advocate for a lockdown if shit was that dire.

[TimDunkem]

Fair question. But I think the cities can force his hand by instituting stay at home orders and challenging him to issue an executive order that does otherwise.
Which is what happened the first time. Wonder how long leaders are going to drag their feet on this. It's like watching the NY movie all over again.

[vy65]

Which is what happened the first time. Wonder how long leaders are going to drag their feet on this. It's like watching the NY movie all over again.

Yeah they’re in a tough spot, especially with July 4 coming up. The natives are restless, esp with bars closed, and I don’t think there’s much appetite for another lockdown

[TimDunkem]

Yeah they’re in a tough spot, especially with July 4 coming up. The natives are restless, esp with bars closed, and I don’t think there’s much appetite for another lockdown
Probably why no one has the guts to suggest it, and likely why they'll wait until the very last moment if it comes to that. Sucks more people will die because of the foot dragging.

[baseline bum]

Fair, but then why not just come out with it and say the city needs to lockdown again? If it’s reasonable to assume people are going to go out - especially during a holiday weekend - and of doing so puts the city at risk of becoming NYC2, doesn’t the doctor have a duty to advocate for what would stop that scenario, e.g. lockdown?

Lockdowns are going to be out of the question most likely in anything but a worst case scenario (eg Italy, not NYC) and he knows that. But better to know what you're going to be in for. If it was my call lockdowns would probably only be a last resort if the hospital system is on the brink of collapse.

[vy65]

Lockdowns are going to be out of the question most likely in anything but a worst case scenario (eg Italy, not NYC) and he knows that. But better to know what you're going to be in for. If it was my call lockdowns would probably only be a last resort if the hospital system is on the brink of collapse.

Right, so then you’re in this weird gray area where some businesses are open, some are at limited capacity, and some are closed. And those decisions seem to be somewhat arbitrary (why are bars closed but not car dealerships, why are restaurants allowed to have people dine in). I agree that a lot of this could be addressed if people mask up, but if lockdowns are out of the picture, we’re going to be in the situation where these surges occur.

[Blake]

Right, so then you’re in this weird gray area where some businesses are open, some are at limited capacity, and some are closed. And those decisions seem to be somewhat arbitrary (why are bars closed but not car dealerships, why are restaurants allowed to have people dine in). I agree that a lot of this could be addressed if people mask up, but if lockdowns are out of the picture, we’re going to be in the situation where these surges occur.

Yeah I'd feel a little better if Abbott said he referred to a team of Faucis to make the decision to shut down bars and whatever else. The arbitrary gray area sucks ass.

[baseline bum]

Right, so then you’re in this weird gray area where some businesses are open, some are at limited capacity, and some are closed. And those decisions seem to be somewhat arbitrary (why are bars closed but not car dealerships, why are restaurants allowed to have people dine in). I agree that a lot of this could be addressed if people mask up, but if lockdowns are out of the picture, we’re going to be in the situation where these surges occur.

I'm surprised the gyms haven't been shut down too since they're large contributors along with bars, and both are also frequented mostly by millennials who aren't voting for Abbott anyways.

[DMC]

I'm surprised the gyms haven't been shut down too since they're large contributors along with bars, and both are also frequented mostly by millennials who aren't voting for Abbott anyways.

You mean Jim's? Never heard of Gyms.

[CosmicCowboy]

Yeah I'd feel a little better if Abbott said he referred to a team of Faucis to make the decision to shut down bars and whatever else. The arbitrary gray area sucks ass.

It's a highly contagious virus. There is NO good answer. The recommendations are as good as it gets. Mask up, socially distance, and stay home as much as possible.

[Blake]

It's a highly contagious virus. There is NO good answer. The recommendations are as good as it gets. Mask up, socially distance, and stay home as much as possible.

Masking up is one good answer and yet Abbott won't even mandate that. Pathetic.

[pgardn]

Houston is not looking very good either.

Personally up to around 15 relAtives and friends who have/ have had it.
A mess.

[boutons_deux]

Mike Pence Praises Greg Abbott For Causing Texas Virus Surge

Vice President Mike Pence went to Texas to praise Gov. Greg Abbott for actions that led to a surge in coronavirus cases.

Pence said:

I also want to commend the governor for — for your decisive action.

Reopening this economy, which began in early May, is a tribute to your leadership and the steady progress in — in putting Texas back to work.

It’s something every Texan can be proud of.

But with the development of these new cases — as you said,

going from 2,000 a day to 5,000 a day; positivity rate going from roughly 4 percent to 13 percent —

we’re grateful, :lol

Governor, that you’ve taken the steps that you’ve taken to limit the kind of gatherings and meeting in certain places in communities that may well be :lol

contributing to the community spread that we’re seeing in Texas and in states like Arizona and Florida and California as well.

https://www.politicususa.com/2020/06/28/mike-pence-texas.html (https://www.politicususa.com/2020/06/28/mike-pence-texas.html)

[ElNono]

Hopefully there's nothing sinister going on here...

Texas Medical Center Deletes ICU Data Amid State's Coronavirus Spike

Houston's leading source of intensive care unit (ICU) data had seemingly removed all previously published reports from its website on Sunday morning, as Texas health officials continue to report a statewide spike in hospitalizations related to the novel coronavirus.

The Texas Medical Center (TMC), a cluster of hospitals and health care research institutions located in central Houston, previously released ongoing reports detailing ICU admission numbers throughout the pandemic. Its reports included information about patients admitted to Houston-area ICUs with novel virus infections as well as patients admitted for other illnesses. The data was collected from at least seven hospitals affiliated with the TMC's medical network.

The TMC also published data that showed ongoing changes to Houston's overall ICU capacity, which reached 100 percent late last week. On Wednesday, when 3 percent of the city's ICU beds remained available, the TMC's most recent report noted that nearly 900 additional beds could be added to local hospital units under the medical center's "sustainable surge" and "unsustainable surge plans."

The former plan would allow for an indefinite increase of 373 ICU beds across medical facilities, while the latter would temporarily introduce 504 beds for emergency purposes.

https://www.newsweek.com/texas-medical-center-deletes-icu-data-amid-states-coronavirus-spike-1513943

[Blake]

Mike Pence Praises Greg Abbott For Causing Texas Virus Surge

Vice President Mike Pence went to Texas to praise Gov. Greg Abbott for actions that led to a surge in coronavirus cases.

Pence said:

I also want to commend the governor for — for your decisive action.

Reopening this economy, which began in early May, is a tribute to your leadership and the steady progress in — in putting Texas back to work.

It’s something every Texan can be proud of.

But with the development of these new cases — as you said,

going from 2,000 a day to 5,000 a day; positivity rate going from roughly 4 percent to 13 percent —

we’re grateful, :lol

Governor, that you’ve taken the steps that you’ve taken to limit the kind of gatherings and meeting in certain places in communities that may well be :lol

contributing to the community spread that we’re seeing in Texas and in states like Arizona and Florida and California as well.

https://www.politicususa.com/2020/06/28/mike-pence-texas.html (https://www.politicususa.com/2020/06/28/mike-pence-texas.html)





I thought this was an onion article

[Blake]

Yeah people just aren't going to do things right without shutting down places that encourage social gatherings.

1277304585313492992

"Gov. Greg Abbott ordered the closing of all bars and scaled back restaurant capacity to 50 percent in Texas on Friday after the state experienced a 3-day in a row record high of COVID-19 cases.

The Harris County Fire Marshal said their complaint hotline and website form received 580 complaints due to overcrowding and/or businesses being open when they shouldn't be, but no citations were issued yet.

ABC13 spoke with one of the owners of the club. The owner said the nightclub opened up because they are registered as a restaurant......."

https://abc13.com/spire-night-club-crowded-houston-bar-bars-in-texas-covid-19-governor-greg-abbott/6278691/

[Blake]

Pence at Dallas First Baptist Church

https://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/shared/npr/styles/x_large/nprshared/202006/884493636.jpg

"Friday, Abbott reversed course on his reopening plan, shutting bars back down, scaling back restaurant capacity to 50 percent, and prohibiting outdoor gatherings of more than 100 people unless local officials approved. “At this time, it is clear that the rise in cases is largely driven by certain types of activities, including Texans congregating in bars,” he said in a press release. “The actions in this executive order are essential to our mission to swiftly contain this virus and protect public health.”

Abbott’s order on Friday exempted churches and other houses of worship, where there is no occupancy limit.


https://www.motherjones.com/coronavirus-updates/2020/06/pence-dallas-church-jeffress-coronavirus/

Fucking retarded piece of shit politicians

[RandomGuy]

It's a highly contagious virus. There is NO good answer. The recommendations are as good as it gets. Mask up, socially distance, and stay home as much as possible.

... and yet conservatives, and the Trump party are fighting masks, and have adopted opposition to masks as part of their identity politics.

The Republican party needs to be dismantled. It fights climate change, social safety nets, paid sick leave, and every other policy that might mitigate this and future epidemics.

Yet you keep voting for them at all levels.

[RandomGuy]

Pence at Dallas First Baptist Church

https://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/shared/npr/styles/x_large/nprshared/202006/884493636.jpg

"Friday, Abbott reversed course on his reopening plan, shutting bars back down, scaling back restaurant capacity to 50 percent, and prohibiting outdoor gatherings of more than 100 people unless local officials approved. “At this time, it is clear that the rise in cases is largely driven by certain types of activities, including Texans congregating in bars,” he said in a press release. “The actions in this executive order are essential to our mission to swiftly contain this virus and protect public health.”

Abbott’s order on Friday exempted churches and other houses of worship, where there is no occupancy limit.


https://www.motherjones.com/coronavirus-updates/2020/06/pence-dallas-church-jeffress-coronavirus/

Fucking retarded piece of shit politicians

I am beyond pity at this point. I hope as many of them get sick and die as possible. It is the equivalent of someone waving a loaded gun around, or smoking at a gas pump, while I am pumping gas 10 feet away. These are the kinds of people who should not be alive to be voting.

[RandomGuy]

Hopefully there's nothing sinister going on here...

Texas Medical Center Deletes ICU Data Amid State's Coronavirus Spike

Houston's leading source of intensive care unit (ICU) data had seemingly removed all previously published reports from its website on Sunday morning, as Texas health officials continue to report a statewide spike in hospitalizations related to the novel coronavirus.

The Texas Medical Center (TMC), a cluster of hospitals and health care research institutions located in central Houston, previously released ongoing reports detailing ICU admission numbers throughout the pandemic. Its reports included information about patients admitted to Houston-area ICUs with novel virus infections as well as patients admitted for other illnesses. The data was collected from at least seven hospitals affiliated with the TMC's medical network.

The TMC also published data that showed ongoing changes to Houston's overall ICU capacity, which reached 100 percent late last week. On Wednesday, when 3 percent of the city's ICU beds remained available, the TMC's most recent report noted that nearly 900 additional beds could be added to local hospital units under the medical center's "sustainable surge" and "unsustainable surge plans."

The former plan would allow for an indefinite increase of 373 ICU beds across medical facilities, while the latter would temporarily introduce 504 beds for emergency purposes.

https://www.newsweek.com/texas-medical-center-deletes-icu-data-amid-states-coronavirus-spike-1513943

Data has been disappearing all over the place. :/

[vy65]

Yeah people just aren't going to do things right without shutting down places that encourage social gatherings.

1277304585313492992

"Gov. Greg Abbott ordered the closing of all bars and scaled back restaurant capacity to 50 percent in Texas on Friday after the state experienced a 3-day in a row record high of COVID-19 cases.

The Harris County Fire Marshal said their complaint hotline and website form received 580 complaints due to overcrowding and/or businesses being open when they shouldn't be, but no citations were issued yet.

ABC13 spoke with one of the owners of the club. The owner said the nightclub opened up because they are registered as a restaurant......."

https://abc13.com/spire-night-club-crowded-houston-bar-bars-in-texas-covid-19-governor-greg-abbott/6278691/

lol spire. what a shit hole fake vegas bar.

People have lockdown fatigue. They're not going to continue sequestering themselves. Given that the restrictions target young people more than old, our overlords have to expect shit like this will happen - and will continue to happen. So they need to either lock it all down or figure out some other solution, because arbitrary closures of businesses that target the young won't work.

[vy65]

Data has been disappearing all over the place. :/

It's back: https://www.tmc.edu/coronavirus-updates/infection-rate-in-the-greater-houston-area/

I read that it was taken down to adjust for how ICU capacity was determined.

[CosmicCowboy]

I am beyond pity at this point. I hope as many of them get sick and die as possible. It is the equivalent of someone waving a loaded gun around, or smoking at a gas pump, while I am pumping gas 10 feet away. These are the kinds of people who should not be alive to be voting.

I'm not wishing death, but that gathering was fucking stupid. And with a damn choir belting out covid for the masses.

[vy65]

I am beyond pity at this point. I hope as many of them get sick and die as possible. It is the equivalent of someone waving a loaded gun around, or smoking at a gas pump, while I am pumping gas 10 feet away. These are the kinds of people who should not be alive to be voting.

You've finally come full circle. You're the annakin to my palpatine

[Blake]

Hopefully there's nothing sinister going on here...

Texas Medical Center Deletes ICU Data Amid State's Coronavirus Spike

Houston's leading source of intensive care unit (ICU) data had seemingly removed all previously published reports from its website on Sunday morning, as Texas health officials continue to report a statewide spike in hospitalizations related to the novel coronavirus.

The Texas Medical Center (TMC), a cluster of hospitals and health care research institutions located in central Houston, previously released ongoing reports detailing ICU admission numbers throughout the pandemic. Its reports included information about patients admitted to Houston-area ICUs with novel virus infections as well as patients admitted for other illnesses. The data was collected from at least seven hospitals affiliated with the TMC's medical network.

The TMC also published data that showed ongoing changes to Houston's overall ICU capacity, which reached 100 percent late last week. On Wednesday, when 3 percent of the city's ICU beds remained available, the TMC's most recent report noted that nearly 900 additional beds could be added to local hospital units under the medical center's "sustainable surge" and "unsustainable surge plans."

The former plan would allow for an indefinite increase of 373 ICU beds across medical facilities, while the latter would temporarily introduce 504 beds for emergency purposes.

https://www.newsweek.com/texas-medical-center-deletes-icu-data-amid-states-coronavirus-spike-1513943

I don't think it's sinister. I think it's just fishy that they change their tune about the numbers just hours after Abbott shuts down elective surgeries.

[boutons_deux]

The Republican party needs to be dismantled. It fights climate change, social safety nets, paid sick leave, and every other policy that might mitigate this and future epidemics.



... Repug policies, eg not expanding Medicaid, KILL people, like about 15K so far, reducing longevity in their states,

AND sicken and kill 100Ks more with the policies of permitting increased pollution of air, water, land.

Trash/Repug evangelical voters are PRO-LIFE? G M A F B

[Blake]

I'm not wishing death, but that gathering was fucking stupid. And with a damn choir belting out covid for the masses.

Yeah I'm not seeing masks on a lot of the choir and orchestra people

[TimDunkem]

1277592928555278337

1277613640493998080

[spurraider21]

1277592928555278337

1277613640493998080
Many, but not all of the next 2 weeks infections are “baked in.” Incubation is up to 2 weeks, but not all cases are necessarily that long

[TimDunkem]

Rate of positivity in Houston has increased from around 13% to 16% over the past couple of days.

[tholdren]

Data has been disappearing all over the place. :/

I thought you said hospitals would all be overwhelmed by now. First ny the n az then fl then tx..... wrong all the time