Texas response to Corona virus

[RandomGuy]

Sort of makes a wider point about fires in your neighbor's house. If we don't care for our neighbors, it affects us.


[logically flawed personal attack]

No-take McGurk strikes again.

[apathy]

[RandomGuy]

[personal attack on several posters]

[amusement]

[Winehole23]

Temporary injunction laid on abortion ban

https://www.statesman.com/news/20200330/federal-judge-blocks-texas-from-enforcing-coronavirus-related-abortion-ban

[ElNono]

It's funny reading all these posters here like they paid their dues to live in a free country, like they are disabled veteran status and long term PTSD, :lol .. ain't never done anything except sit on your ass and play video games.

Not even sure where you're going with this. Arbitrary litmus tests are just that, arbitrary.

[spurraider21]

It's funny reading all these posters here like they paid their dues to live in a free country, like they are disabled veteran status and long term PTSD, :lol .. ain't never done anything except sit on your ass and play video games.
DMC decides what qualifications you must have to live in a free country

[ChumpDumper]

DMC decides what qualifications you must have to live in a free countryAnd always includes himself in those qualifications. Have no idea why he's so insecure.

[ElNono]

tbh, in this day and age when you're not drafted into the military, but it's your choice, if you end up with disabled veteran status and long term PTSD, it's because you made wrong choices in life, right? I hear that one from conservatives all the time, when people fall in tough times.

[spurraider21]

tbh, in this day and age when you're not drafted into the military, but it's your choice, if you end up with disabled veteran status and long term PTSD, it's because you made wrong choices in life, right? I hear that one from conservatives all the time, when people fall in tough times.
"why should i have to pay for somebody's troubles because they made the decision to sign up for active duty and fight some war in the desert that did me no good?"

[DMC]

DMC decides what qualifications you must have to live in a free country

Sure, if it's my own opinion and I am free to do so. Does that chap your ass?

[DMC]

tbh, in this day and age when you're not drafted into the military, but it's your choice, if you end up with disabled veteran status and long term PTSD, it's because you made wrong choices in life, right? I hear that one from conservatives all the time, when people fall in tough times.

If it wasn't a choice there'd be no honor in it.

[DMC]

And always includes himself in those qualifications. Have no idea why he's so insecure.

And you always have me on your mind. I have no idea why you're so into me.

[spurraider21]

Sure, if it's my own opinion and I am free to do so. Does that chap your ass?
doesnt surprise me that's where your mind goes

[ElNono]

If it wasn't a choice there'd be no honor in it.

There always been honor. Ask any WW veteran that didn't get to choose.

[DMC]

Not even sure where you're going with this. Arbitrary litmus tests are just that, arbitrary.

Not a litmus test. All the whining and bitching isn't because they put so much into something and got fucked. It's quite the opposite - they've spent a lifetime doing basically nothing. What they get from it then, if anything, is a bonus.

[DMC]

There always been honor. Ask any WW veteran that didn't get to choose.

There's no honor in being drafted. There's honor in what you do afterward.

[ElNono]

Not a litmus test. All the whining and bitching isn't because they put so much into something and got fucked. It's quite the opposite - they've spent a lifetime doing basically nothing. What they get from it then, if anything, is a bonus.

Except that your 'doing basically nothing' is completely arbitrary. One thing is for sure, this country isn't forgiving when it comes to earning your keep.

[DMC]

doesnt surprise me that's where your mind goes

It's a saying. Spend more time learning about this country instead of bashing it, you might get it.

[ElNono]

There's no honor in being drafted. There's honor in what you do afterward.

There's no honor in bone spurs. There's no honor in your choice either, it's your choice. It's what you do afterwards.

[spurraider21]

It's a saying. Spend more time learning about this country instead of bashing it, you might get it.
there are a lot of sayings. of course your first choice was one that had you thinking about my ass for whatever reason

[DMC]

Except that your 'doing basically nothing' is completely arbitrary. One thing is for sure, this country isn't forgiving when it comes to earning your keep.

There's lots of "arbitrary" concepts, like "earning your keep" and "isn't forgiving". These things you accept at face value, so "basically nothing" is in the same category. Those who fit that bill know who I am referring to. If you don't feel that's you, I'm probably not referring to you.

[DMC]

there are a lot of sayings. of course your first choice was one that had you thinking about my ass for whatever reason

Sure Philo. Practice arguing about the mundane - you've got a future of it awaiting.

[DMC]

There's no honor in bone spurs. There's no honor in your choice either, it's your choice. It's what you do afterwards.

The fact you have a choice and you choose to do the more difficult thing, something that benefits others as much if not more than you, that's honorable. Choosing to let others do the work for you so you can camp out behind a door upstairs, that's not honorable. It's not dishonorable, just not honorable.

[DMC]

[virtue signaling complaint without an ounce of self awareness]


par

[ElNono]

There's lots of "arbitrary" concepts, like "earning your keep" and "isn't forgiving". These things you accept at face value, so "basically nothing" is in the same category. Those who fit that bill know who I am referring to. If you don't feel that's you, I'm probably not referring to you.

Not paying your bills is indeed what's gonna penalize you in this free country, up to an including jail. Not really arbitrary, tbh.

[ElNono]

The fact you have a choice and you choose to do the more difficult thing, something that benefits others as much if not more than you, that's honorable. Choosing to let others do the work for you so you can camp out behind a door upstairs, that's not honorable. It's not dishonorable, just not honorable.

I would argue it's not the "more difficult thing", it's the "dumber thing". You can benefit others without having to risk your neck for it, there's a plethora of ways to selflessly contribute to society in general.

Now, it's their choice, as dumb as I think it is.

[mrsmaalox]

I don't know who the Tribune is talking to but I have a close family member who tested positive over the weekend and the results came back in less than 8 hours.


Yeah. My brother's test came back (negative) in 3 days.

My aunt was admitted on Tuesday, had the test. Stayed in ICU 2 nights then home. Still no results.

[ElNono]

My aunt was admitted on Tuesday, had the test. Stayed in ICU 2 nights then home. Still no results.

hope everything works out for the best.

[elbamba1]

My aunt was admitted on Tuesday, had the test. Stayed in ICU 2 nights then home. Still no results.

I'll try to find out more details . I know she was admitted after midnight on Friday, took the test around 4:00 a.m. and had the results between 2 - 3 p.m. It was at University Hospital in San Antonio. She is still in the ICU and not in good shape.

[Blake]

DMC decides what qualifications you must have to live in a free country

Other than being born on this side of an arbitrary border line, what else is there?

[RandomGuy]

My aunt was admitted on Tuesday, had the test. Stayed in ICU 2 nights then home. Still no results.

Yikes. Long time no see. Hope you and yours are ok.

[ChumpDumper]

And you always have me on your mind. I have no idea why you're so into me.You redassed in your unsolicited troll posts. Don't whine about getting dragged. You wanted the attention. You got it, whore.

[ChumpDumper]

My aunt was admitted on Tuesday, had the test. Stayed in ICU 2 nights then home. Still no results.Well I'm glad she's out of the hospital.

[DMC]

You redassed in your unsolicited troll posts. Don't whine about getting dragged. You wanted the attention. You got it, whore.

Why are you focused on my ass?

[ChumpDumper]

Why are you focused on my ass?You're actively redassing. Put it away.

[DMC]

I would argue it's not the "more difficult thing", it's the "dumber thing". You can benefit others without having to risk your neck for it, there's a plethora of ways to selflessly contribute to society in general.

Now, it's their choice, as dumb as I think it is.

Sure, but not everyone can be in the shelter of freedom without someone creating and defending it. You can call it dumb to choose to be on the outside, but that's only an opinion based on self preservation. It has nothing to do with honor.

[DMC]

You're actively redassing. Put it away.

Still ass gazing I see.

All sore because I challenged your contribution. :lol

[ChumpDumper]

Still ass gazing I see.

All sore because I challenged your contribution. :lol:lol trolling because you're insecure.

[DMC]

Not paying your bills is indeed what's gonna penalize you in this free country, up to an including jail. Not really arbitrary, tbh.

No.

There are plenty here who are in their elder years, never worked a day in their lives. The only "penalty" is standard of living but even then you can live in a dwelling, have food, free healthcare and probably enough folding money to hang on the corner bumming squares from the others in your same situation.

[DMC]

:lol trolling because you're insecure.

Talk more about my ass.

[ChumpDumper]

Talk more about my ass.Now you're begging.

[pgardn]

It's funny reading all these posters here like they paid their dues to live in a free country, like they are disabled veteran status and long term PTSD, :lol .. ain't never done anything except sit on your ass and play video games.

A nerve was struck.

Did he say this like Jack Nicholson "you cant handle the truth" through grinding teeth.

[ElNono]

Sure, but not everyone can be in the shelter of freedom without someone creating and defending it. You can call it dumb to choose to be on the outside, but that's only an opinion based on self preservation. It has nothing to do with honor.

We certainly pay top dollar to make sure the shelter of freedom is sustained. As it should be on any professional job providing training and a service.

I just don't think the choice has anything to do strictly with honor, and to the extent that the person applying think it does, it's entirely a mental construction. At that moment in time, there's no honor earned.

Case in point, sometimes people choose out of convenience, hoping to get citizenship or ride school with it, etc.

[ElNono]

No.

There are plenty here who are in their elder years, never worked a day in their lives. The only "penalty" is standard of living but even then you can live in a dwelling, have food, free healthcare and probably enough folding money to hang on the corner bumming squares from the others in your same situation.

I don't think so. Certainly not representative of the vast majority of what Americans do every day to stay afloat or on top. A cursory look at economic numbers bears this out.

[ChumpDumper]

A nerve was struck.

Did he say this like Jack Nicholson "you cant handle the truth" through grinding teeth.:lol he gets pissy when people don't give a shit about him or what he does

[pgardn]

My aunt was admitted on Tuesday, had the test. Stayed in ICU 2 nights then home. Still no results.

Good deal she is out of there.

[pgardn]

:lol he gets pissy when people don't give a shit about him or what he does

I am lost on this.

Im guessing he was/is in the military?
He claimed to be some sort of head hunter for Phds once. I think.
Has said some stupid stuff about science topics in general and hated to be called on it.

[ChumpDumper]

I am lost on this.

Im guessing he was/is in the military?
He claimed to be some sort of head hunter for Phds once. I think.:lol no one cares and it drives him up the wall

[Blake]

No.

There are plenty here who are in their elder years, never worked a day in their lives. The only "penalty" is standard of living but even then you can live in a dwelling, have food, free healthcare and probably enough folding money to hang on the corner bumming squares from the others in your same situation.

Would you prefer to switch them out for the illegals that do things like build houses?

[pgardn]

:lol no one cares and it drives him up the wall

To the military service point.

I imagine it is tough to give up a lot of your rights as a citizen.
When I fly back into SA and see all those kids lined up with manila folder in hand I wonder.
I have talked to a few of them on flights in and some of them seem like deer caught in a headlight.
But I certainly could have been right there if born into a different family.
My father would have kicked my butt somewhere if his threats about school did not work.
I feel I got very lucky.

[ElNono]

To the military service point.

I imagine it is tough to give up a lot of your rights as a citizen.
When I fly back into SA and see all those kids lined up with manila folder in hand I wonder.
I have talked to a few of them on flights in and some of them seem like deer caught in a headlight.
But I certainly could have been right there if born into a different family.
My father would have kicked my butt somewhere if his threats about school did not work.
I feel I got very lucky.

Tougher when you don't even get to choose. In the country I grew up, we had a lottery for the draft. I got lucky, some of my friends didn't. Eventually the country moved to a professionalized force.

[DMC]

I don't think so. Certainly not representative of the vast majority of what Americans do every day to stay afloat or on top. A cursory look at economic numbers bears this out.

How do you think ghettos and projects and such are constantly full of tenants? It's not because they are all working at the bodegas.

[ElNono]

How do you think ghettos and projects and such are constantly full of tenants? It's not because they are all working at the bodegas.

Some work, some hustle, some don't. Have a cursory look at unemployment rate in this country (at least right before this mess), you can tell what the vast majority of Americans do every day.

[DMC]

Would you prefer to switch them out for the illegals that do things like build houses?

Is that an option?

[DMC]

Some work, some hustle, some don't. Have a cursory look at unemployment rate in this country (at least right before this mess), you can tell what the vast majority of Americans do every day.

Pretty sure that only counts people who are looking for jobs.

[Blake]

Is that an option?

Just asking what you would do if you could

[DMC]

Just asking what you would do if you could
So it's not an option.

Got it.

[ElNono]

Pretty sure that only counts people who are looking for jobs.

Look at employment numbers then... we had 160 million people employed in Feb, per the BLS (https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.a.htm), add ~60 million (https://www.statista.com/statistics/241488/population-of-the-us-by-sex-and-age/) that are under 15 years old and don't participate in the labor market yet, and I'm pretty sure that's fairly conclusive of what people are doing in this country.

EDIT: Oops, screwed up the numbers for employed. Corrected.

[DMC]

Look at employment numbers then... we had 260 million people employed in Feb, per the BLS (https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.a.htm), add ~60 million (https://www.statista.com/statistics/241488/population-of-the-us-by-sex-and-age/) that are under 15 years old and don't participate in the labor market yet, and I'm pretty sure that's fairly conclusive of what people are doing in this country.

So that's what, 17 million people who don't have a job?

I don't get what point you're trying to make. You said the country is unforgiving if you're not pulling your weight but the fact that people live for decades without doing much of anything goes against what you said. Showing the job stats doesn't negate that. It just says not everyone does it, but it's still being done and can be done and the jobless rate (high or low) has nothing to do with whether or not you can survive reasonably well without a job for an extended period of time. The streets are lined with tents from people who prove that every day.

[ElNono]

So that's what, 17 million people who don't have a job?

Corrected my post. There's ~100 million not in labor force people (children and retired). Retired people worked all their life, children are not working yet. Unemployed: 3.5 million.

[DMC]

Corrected my post. There's ~100 million not in labor force people (children and retired). Retired people worked all their life, children are not working yet. Unemployed: 3.5 million.

So 3.5 million people who aren't starving to death, who live somewhere, who don't work, who get medical care.

[ElNono]

So that's what, 17 million people who don't have a job?

I don't get what point you're trying to make. You said the country is unforgiving if you're not pulling your weight but the fact that people live for decades without doing much of anything goes against what you said. Showing the job stats doesn't negate that. It just says not everyone does it, but it's still being done and can be done and the jobless rate (high or low) has nothing to do with whether or not you can survive reasonably well without a job for an extended period of time. The streets are lined with tents from people who prove that every day.

The point I'm making is that the vast majority if Americans would be in dire straits, including potentially jail, if they don't pay their rent/mortgage, taxes, debt, food, services, etc.

There's nothing 'arbitrary' about electing not to work or do all the things above, which is what started this conversation, there are real consequences.

[ElNono]

So 3.5 million people who aren't starving to death, who live somewhere, who don't work, who get medical care.

Sure, 1% of the population. That's the outlier I was pointing to.

[DMC]

The point I'm making is that the vast majority if Americans would be in dire straits, including potentially jail, if they don't pay their rent/mortgage, taxes, debt, food, services, etc.

There's nothing 'arbitrary' about electing not to work or do all the things above, which is what started this conversation, there are real consequences.

Losing your shit is only a consequence if you have shit to lose.

It's arbitrary if it's undefined, as it was.

[DMC]

Sure, 1% of the population. That's the outlier I was pointing to.

You're saying because people work and therefore escalate their standard of living, more being out of work would be harder on them than someone who never had anything (1%) when they also don't have anything still. This goes back to the comment I made about the wealthy losing hundreds of millions compared to the middle class losing a few thousand. Sure the middle class would be affected more as far as standard of living, but dropping standard of living isn't the end of the world. Those 5 televisions would need to be reduced to 1, no cable, no internet (except to find work if there is any), none of the hundreds of little side costs we can incur with the nickel and dime monthly fees we pay without considering it much for things like Netflix, Amazon Prime, Shipt, Sams Club, car wash memberships, gym memberships, Activision accounts (hypothetically speaking), electric bill to support large gaming platforms, every light in the house on, etc...


I know plenty who have ventured and lost in business, who were on large spreads and now are in rental apartments (and one who just sold a startup for 10m to get back to where he was headed while having bladder cancer).

What this is boiling down to is eventually it could be every man for himself, and plenty on the right have that mindset already, or just shy of it. With no taxpayers there is no funding for social programs, so without the ability to self sustain (or you got into the right business before all this started), you could have a hard row to hoe. Freedom comes with the freedom to fail.

[ElNono]

Losing your shit is only a consequence if you have shit to lose.

It's arbitrary if it's undefined, as it was.

Not sure what you're arguing here, we live in this country right now, and the vast majority of people have a certain stake at it, minorities like homeless or prisoners notwithstanding (and if we're talking about those categories, we need to redefine what freedom really is in that case).

I was defining something that's certainly non-arbitrary, or at least think it's not.


You're saying because people work and therefore escalate their standard of living, more being out of work would be harder on them than someone who never had anything (1%) when they also don't have anything still. This goes back to the comment I made about the wealthy losing hundreds of millions compared to the middle class losing a few thousand. Sure the middle class would be affected more as far as standard of living, but dropping standard of living isn't the end of the world. Those 5 televisions would need to be reduced to 1, no cable, no internet (except to find work if there is any), none of the hundreds of little side costs we can incur with the nickel and dime monthly fees we pay without considering it much for things like Netflix, Amazon Prime, Shipt, Sams Club, car wash memberships, gym memberships, Activision accounts (hypothetically speaking), electric bill to support large gaming platforms, every light in the house on, etc...

I know plenty who have ventured and lost in business, who were on large spreads and now are in rental apartments (and one who just sold a startup for 10m to get back to where he was headed while having bladder cancer).

What this is boiling down to is eventually it could be every man for himself, and plenty on the right have that mindset already, or just shy of it. With no taxpayers there is no funding for social programs, so without the ability to self sustain (or you got into the right business before all this started), you could have a hard row to hoe. Freedom comes with the freedom to fail.

Realistically speaking, it really doesn't boil down to that. Especially in the US, where the vast majority of people are slaved to their work anyways to do any kind of revolting, plus a cursory look at around the world can tell they're not really doing that bad after all, despite the fake raised fists.

I know you've traveled, and so you know people in most 1st world countries have it relatively good, much like the US.

Are these exceptional times? Sure. Is freedom at risk? I don't think so. I can't speak for 50 years in the future, but I'll probably be dead by then, so I don't really have to care.

[Blake]

So it's not an option.

Got it.

So you're whining just to whine.

Got it.

[boutons_deux]

Abbott: all schools closed to at least 4 May

[Blake]

Abbott: all schools closed to at least 4 May

Why even bother this point. Close it down the rest of the year already

[Thread]

Why even bother this point. Close it down the rest of the year already

I wouldn't do that. There still a slight chance it will be over by July & you can reconvene & just have them finish the current school thru September, then keep them there thru next June for the coming school term using these (March-June) months as their vacation.

Just a thought.

[Blake]

I wouldn't do that. There still a slight chance it will be over by July & you can reconvene & just have them finish the current school thru September, then keep them there thru next June for the coming school term using these (March-June) months as their vacation.

Just a thought.

The kids are all home schooling right now already....
as in they're gonna finish up by the end of May.

My one now famous daughter is liking the internet classes but misses the social interaction and sports. She doesn't know how home school kids do it.

[Chris]

https://twitter.com/GregAbbott_TX/status/1245912075928567808?s=19

[RandomGuy]

Why even bother this point. Close it down the rest of the year already

Eyup.

Fuck man, I have two kids each with 7 teachers, their counselors, and their vice-principals emailing me every god-damned day. Ain't no way I am reading all that shit. My wife has 100+ students, so no way she can keep up communication via emails either.

[pgardn]

Eyup.

Fuck man, I have two kids each with 7 teachers, their counselors, and their vice-principals emailing me every god-damned day. Ain't no way I am reading all that shit. My wife has 100+ students, so no way she can keep up communication via emails either.

I have a friend who teaches at O'Connor HS AP classes he has 190 freshman.
Yes, Freshman can take AP tests. He is reading essays? 190...? dude has to be killing himself.
He has about had it, he gonna change that grading system.
He has tried live and recorded Zoom and he says the recorded Zooms he does suck.
Dude wants back to school in the worst way.

[Blake]

Eyup.

Fuck man, I have two kids each with 7 teachers, their counselors, and their vice-principals emailing me every god-damned day. Ain't no way I am reading all that shit. My wife has 100+ students, so no way she can keep up communication via emails either.

Yeah I'm flooded with emails too. Sucks ass

[Winehole23]

Experimentation without informed consent


He acknowledged that some families were not aware their relatives were put on the drug, saying that "for the most part," he consulted with each nursing home resident prior to giving them on the tablets.

While the "overwhelming majority of them are awake and alert and can actually have a conversation," Armstrong said some suffer from middle stages of dementia. In some cases, he did not discuss prescribing the tablets with anyone at all before doing so. He said it is common for physicians to prescribe new medications to patients without explicit consent from the patient or family members. "It's not required," he said.

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/10/830348837/covid-19-patients-given-unproven-drug-in-texas-nursing-home-garnering-criticism

[Winehole23]

Curious provenance. Compared to requests for PPE and medical supplies from other states, the federal government responded with amazing alacrity.


Armstrong, who is a prominent GOP activist, called Republican Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick. He says Patrick reached out to Texas state Sen. Bryan Hughes, also a Republican, who knew someone on the board of the New Jersey-based company Amneal Pharmaceuticals. The company, which makes and distributes the drug, has donated more than a million tablets nationwide, including to the states of Texas and Louisiana.

Two days later, Armstrong had received more than enough medication to begin giving it to patients.

[ChumpDumper]

Experimentation without informed consent



https://www.npr.org/2020/04/10/830348837/covid-19-patients-given-unproven-drug-in-texas-nursing-home-garnering-criticismDMC said there is no shortage. Go figure.

[Winehole23]

"Unofficial" opinion from the AG

1250510051531423746

[Winehole23]

"Unofficial" opinion from the AG

1250510051531423746Mere minutes after the AG "unofficial" opinion, a court rules all Texans can vote absentee in November.

Can't imagine Texas doesn't appeal this.

https://www.fox44news.com/news/state/texas-court-allows-broad-vote-by-mail-during-covid-19-pandemic/

[picnroll]

No problem Trash is closing down the postal service.

[Winehole23]

No problem Trash is closing down the postal service.Maybe a civic minded billionaire will save it.

[picnroll]

Maybe a civic minded billionaire will save it.

Be nice if Bloomberg fulfilled his promise

[Blake]

No problem Trash is closing down the postal service.

As long as we bailout cruise ships tho

[RandomGuy]

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/texas-officials-pandemic-warning/

Texas Officials Were Warned Six Years Ago to Prepare for a Pandemic. They Didn’t.


How did it come to this? Why did we seem so surprised at every turn? Texas officials had no excuse to be blindsided. In October 2014, after a Liberian man named Thomas Eric Duncan was diagnosed with Ebola virus at a Dallas hospital, Governor Rick Perry created the Texas Task Force on Infectious Disease Preparedness and Response. The group’s 174-page report on the Ebola crisis, submitted that December, begins with this epigraph: “In today’s globally connected society, an infectious disease epidemic anywhere can soon become an emergency everywhere.”

Duncan, who died from Ebola, had infected two nurses at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital, both of whom survived, and the task force zeroed in on the importance of personal protective equipment for medical staff. The Ebola crisis, they wrote, “revealed a shortage of PPE that is vitally needed by hospital workers, including those who may find themselves unexpectedly in an Emergency Department with an Ebola patient or similar patient with a high consequence infectious disease.” They recommended the state create a stockpile of such equipment in case of a future outbreak. Governor Perry praised the report, and Republican state senator Charles Schwertner tried to codify some of the task force’s recommendations, including the PPE stockpile, into law. The bill passed the Senate, but it wasn’t taken up by the House until the final month of the 2015 legislative session, and it never got a hearing in the public health committee.

Today’s state leaders, even while facing the dire threat of a pandemic raging throughout the state, haven’t responded with much greater urgency. In January and February, while the CDC was failing to institute a widespread testing program, state leaders were uncertain about the scope and trajectory of the problem. When the state’s infectious disease task force met in early February, DSHS commissioner John Hellerstedt likened the unfolding crisis to the fog of war. “When you have a rapidly developing situation when there are a great many factors at work, being able to see clearly is sometimes simply not possible,” he said.

[RandomGuy]

As I write, things look bad enough. More than 150,000 Texans filed for unemployment during the third week of March, more than three times as many as the worst week during the Great Recession. The next week that number nearly doubled to more than 275,000. The price of a barrel of West Texas Intermediate crude plummeted as far as $20, kneecapped by a price war between Saudi Arabia and Russia and whacked over the head with a lead pipe by a global drop in demand. The cost-intensive, debt-enabled fracking industry, which was already struggling to profit when oil was trading at $50 per barrel, may be shuttered indefinitely. The Brookings Institution, a center-left think tank in Washington, D.C., listed Midland, Odessa, and Laredo as three of the six U.S. metro areas most exposed to the economic cataclysm currently underway, with tens of thousands of oil workers already laid off. Having nearly one out of five residents uninsured—the worst rate in the nation—Texas’s public health infrastructure is poorly equipped to weather a crisis that will push hospital resources to their capacity or well beyond it.

[LkrFan]

Dumbass Governor Abbot has #So Texas trending. Texas Roadhouse, Rudy's BBQ, HEB and Valero gas stations are opening next week with NO restrictions :lol

[ChumpDumper]

Dumbass Governor Abbot has #So Texas trending. Texas Roadhouse, Rudy's BBQ, HEB and Valero gas stations are opening next week with NO restrictions :lolThat sounds inaccurate.

[LkrFan]

That sounds inaccurate.

Issa joke bruh :lol

Or is it?
https://twitter.com/kelvin_thornton/status/1251232821261357056?s=19

I'm just saying :downspin:

[boutons_deux]

Abbott finally takes a stand, DEFIES Trash's open it up, TX school cancelled for rest of year.

[ChumpDumper]

Issa joke bruh :lol

Or is it?
https://twitter.com/kelvin_thornton/status/1251232821261357056?s=19

I'm just saying :downspin:Looks like we're using the thoughts and prayers strategy for testing.

[LkrFan]

Looks like we're using the thoughts and prayers strategy for testing.

:rollin :lmao :rollin

[Xevious]

So the jist as of right now...

- Texas state parks opening back up on Monday as long as visitors wear masks and do not gather in crowds larger than five
- Some retailers will be allowed to open next Friday (the 24th) for curbside and delivery only
- Some elective/diagnostic procedures will be allowed again starting next week

[ChumpDumper]

So the jist as of right now...

- Texas state parks opening back up on Monday as long as visitors wear masks and do not gather in crowds larger than five
- Some retailers will be allowed to open next Friday (the 24th) for curbside and delivery only
- Some elective/diagnostic procedures will be allowed again starting next weekWe do need some money flowing back in the hospitals.

[SnakeBoy]

We do need some money flowing back in the hospitals.

Main Methodist is at 50% capacity. The hospitalists are getting desperate.

Just need to stay the course for 12-18 months in hopes a vaccine though amirite?

[ChumpDumper]

Main Methodist is at 50% capacity. The hospitalists are getting desperate.

Just need to stay the course for 12-18 months in hopes a vaccine though amirite?You're going to be building straw men for that entire time?

Just let us know if you plan on being dishonest from here on out, OK?

We need testing. What's the plan for that?

[TSA]

Main Methodist is at 50% capacity. The hospitalists are getting desperate.

Just need to stay the course for 12-18 months in hopes a vaccine though amirite?

https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1251110941908963329


140 hospitals furloughing workers in response to COVID-19

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/49-hospitals-furloughing-workers-in-response-to-covid-19.html

[Xevious]

It sounds like there is still some confusion as to what medical procedures and which facilities will be allowed to operate. A specific list of guidelines will need to be made available.

[ChumpDumper]

https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1251110941908963329


140 hospitals furloughing workers in response to COVID-19

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/49-hospitals-furloughing-workers-in-response-to-covid-19.htmlWhat's his reopening plan?

[SnakeBoy]

You're going to be building straw men for that entire time?

Just let us know if you plan on being dishonest from here on out, OK?

We need testing. What's the plan for that?

We have testing

[ChumpDumper]

It sounds like there is still some confusion as to what medical procedures and which facilities will be allowed to operate. A specific list of guidelines will need to be made available.The plan announced today isn't actually the plan. That's coming the 27th because we need to act like we're reopening tomorrow.

[ChumpDumper]

We have testingCan I see your testing plan for when we reopen?

Thanks in advance.

[Xevious]

The plan announced today isn't actually the plan. That's coming the 27th because we need to act like we're reopening tomorrow.
Abbott specifically said that restrictions will be loosened on healthcare on the 22nd.

[SnakeBoy]

Can I see your testing plan for when we reopen?

Thanks in advance.

We have testing

[ChumpDumper]

We have testingSo hopes and prayers is the plan.

Nice.

[RandomGuy]

We have testing


We have lifeboats

You lend yourself to derision sometimes. I will set that aside, so we can maybe get some discussion. Quite frankly this smells of "i know we don't have enough testing, and am trying to be cute".

How much Testing do we need to open?

What about contact tracing? If we cant to keep things isolated and re-open that is also one of the things we need to do.

[ChumpDumper]

Abbott specifically said that restrictions will be loosened on healthcare on the 22nd.I thought that was outpatient procedures; just caught it in passing. I'm not against that tbh.

[RandomGuy]

We have testing

Ok, so you aren't being serious, and you do know that we don't have enough, but aren't honest enough to admit it.

Why do you think conservatives are so dishonest?

[ChumpDumper]

You lend yourself to derision sometimes. I will set that aside, so we can maybe get some discussion. Quite frankly this smells of "i know we don't have enough testing, and am trying to be cute".

How much Testing do we need to open?

What about contact tracing? If we cant to keep things isolated and re-open that is also one of the things we need to do.

When SnakeBoy gets cute and evasive, he's being partisan.

[elbamba1]

So the jist as of right now...

- Texas state parks opening back up on Monday as long as visitors wear masks and do not gather in crowds larger than five
- Some retailers will be allowed to open next Friday (the 24th) for curbside and delivery only
- Some elective/diagnostic procedures will be allowed again starting next week

These seem like safe, low-risk services to open. Hopefully we can start massive testing by the end of the month like Abbott said. It looks like some general studies are starting to show the virus to be more widespread than our numbers show, which would lower the death rates considerably. These are early reports without peer review but hopefully they are accurate.

[SnakeBoy]

When SnakeBoy gets cute and evasive, he's being partisan.

I'm not being evasive. You said we need testing but we have testing.

If you have a special plan different from all the experts then just say what it is.

[Xevious]

These seem like safe, low-risk services to open. Hopefully we can start massive testing by the end of the month like Abbott said. It looks like some general studies are starting to show the virus to be more widespread than our numbers show, which would lower the death rates considerably. These are early reports without peer review but hopefully they are accurate.
That, to me, would be best case scenario. What they really need to do is start testing for antibodies to see how many people had already been exposed.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not being evasive. You said we need testing but we have testing.I asked you what the testing plan was.

You got cute.

Our testing rate is in the bottom five for the nation.

Is there a plan to change that?

[elbamba1]

It sounds like there is still some confusion as to what medical procedures and which facilities will be allowed to operate. A specific list of guidelines will need to be made available.

I am a little confused by the announcement. My interpretation is that hospitals are limited in the non-essential surgeries they can perform so long as it limits use of the protective equipment and use of hospital beds. Does this include smaller clinics that perform elective surgeries but that are not specifically connected to a hospital? I am thinking specifically of spine clinics and similar medical offices.

[Xevious]

I thought that was outpatient procedures; just caught it in passing. I'm not against that tbh.
The example they gave was diagnostic tests for cancer. That could be any number of tests/minor surgeries which may not be specific for cancer and may or may not need admission to a hospital for. I just think it's a little too vague.

[ChumpDumper]

The example they gave was diagnostic tests for cancer. That could be any number of tests/minor surgeries which may not be specific for cancer and may or may not need admission to a hospital for. I just think it's a little too vague.I agree. Hopefully something comes out in writing for the public before it happens if it hasn't already.

[Xevious]

I am a little confused by the announcement. My interpretation is that hospitals are limited in the non-essential surgeries they can perform so long as it limits use of the protective equipment and use of hospital beds. Does this include smaller clinics that perform elective surgeries but that are not specifically connected to a hospital? I am thinking specifically of spine clinics and similar medical offices.
That's mainly why I'm asking. My wife works at an outpatient clinic that does a number of procedures. The doctors are chomping at the bit to open back up and there's some disagreement as to what they are allowed to do or even if they are allowed to at all.

[boutons_deux]

Greg Abbott’s Power Grab on Bail Reform

Abbott’s executive order blocking jail releases during a pandemic highlights

conservative opposition to the growing movement to end wealth-based detention in Texas.
https://www.texasobserver.org/greg-abbott-bail-reform-coronavirus/?goal=0_975e2d1fa1-a96f663e02-34733575&mc_cid=a96f663e02&mc_eid=b9077e7e26 (https://www.texasobserver.org/greg-abbott-bail-reform-coronavirus/?goal=0_975e2d1fa1-a96f663e02-34733575&mc_cid=a96f663e02&mc_eid=b9077e7e26)

[SnakeBoy]

How much Testing do we need to open?


We probably have enough already but testing capacity for the summer but capacity continues to increase daily. The number of people that need to be tested will fall off a cliff in a couple of weeks.

[SnakeBoy]

Our testing rate is in the bottom five for the nation.



Testing rate per what?

[ChumpDumper]

We probably have enough already but testing capacity for the summer but capacity continues to increase daily. The number of people that need to be tested will fall off a cliff in a couple of weeks.
What are all your sources for this? LESS testing will be necessary going forward?

[ChumpDumper]

Testing rate per what?person

[SnakeBoy]

What are all your sources for this? LESS testing will be necessary going forward?

85% - 95% of our testing has been negative. We've been in cold and flu season, those people had a different bug. Those respiratory illnesses fall off a cliff very soon.

All this has been discussed but with you and RG everyday is like a new day. You can't retain any knowledge.

[ChumpDumper]

85% - 95% of our testing has been negative. We've been in cold and flu season, those people had a different bug. Those respiratory illnesses fall off a cliff very soon.

All this has been discussed but with you and RG everyday is like a new day. You can't retain any knowledge.No one is talking about colds and flu.

We're talking about coronavirus testing.

You're trying to get cute again.

What is the plan for coronavirus testing and contact tracing?

[SnakeBoy]

person

Is that what you think the goal is? Just randomly test x percentage of the population per day with or without symptoms?

[SnakeBoy]

No one is talking about colds and flu.


85-95% of the people with symptoms that have been tested have had a cold or flu not coronavirus. Can you really not understand that?

[ChumpDumper]

Is that what you think the goal is? Just randomly test x percentage of the population per day with or without symptoms?Straw man.

You're trying to get cute again.

[ChumpDumper]

85-95% of the people with symptoms that have been tested have had a cold or flu not coronavirus. Can you really not understand that?So no need to increase testing capacity? No need for contact tracing going forward?

Walk me through the actual plan in regards to testing.

[RandomGuy]

Is that what you think the goal is? Just randomly test x percentage of the population per day with or without symptoms?

That is what the CDC recommends. Test enough people to be able to isolate them, and trace contacts to keep the spread slow.

At this point, we are several steps behind that.

[ChumpDumper]

That is what the CDC recommends. Test enough people to be able to isolate them, and trace contacts to keep the spread slow.:lol he's gonna lose his shit now.

[RandomGuy]

Is that what you think the goal is? Just randomly test x percentage of the population per day with or without symptoms?


The first priority, according to the CDC response document, is to “reopen community settings where children are cared for, including K-12 schools, daycares, and locally attended summer camps, to allow the workforce to return to work. Other community settings will follow with careful monitoring for increased transmission that exceeds the public health and health care systems.”

The document says reopening communities in this phased approach “will entail a significant risk of resurgence of the virus.” Any reopening must meet four conditions:


Incidence of infection is “genuinely low.”
A “well functioning” monitoring system capable of “promptly detecting any increase in incidence” of infection.
A public health system that is “reacting robustly” to all cases of covid-19 and has surge capacity to react to an increase in cases.
A health system that has enough inpatient beds and staffing to rapidly scale up and deal with a surge in cases.
The plan describes the conditions under which it is reasonable to lift some community mitigation measures, the phased steps to reduce those measures and indicators to monitor the impact of transmission on public health and health system capacities.

Communities where it is necessary to maintain only “low mitigation” are places where the virus never spread significantly, and those locations can reopen soon, according to the document. Moderate mitigation is called for in former hot spots entering “controlled recovery.” Significant mitigation is recommended in current or emerging hot spots or moderate-mitigation communities showing signs of strained capacity.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/14/cdc-fema-have-created-plan-reopen-america-heres-what-it-says/


Seems like sufficient testing capacity will be part of that.

Can't know how prevalent it is in the population if you aren't catching asymptomatic people. Right?

[RandomGuy]

:lol he's gonna lose his shit now.

Maybe when White Millenials flee the Democratic party this will all blow over.

[ChumpDumper]

Maybe when White Millenials flee the Democratic party this will all blow over.Magical thinking is one of his hallmarks.

[Blake]

So the jist as of right now...

- Texas state parks opening back up on Monday as long as visitors wear masks and do not gather in crowds larger than five
- Some retailers will be allowed to open next Friday (the 24th) for curbside and delivery only
- Some elective/diagnostic procedures will be allowed again starting next week

The beach too?

[Xevious]

The beach too?
This executive order would apply to Mustang Island State Park. Padre Island National Seashore is still open during the day as far as I know. Other beaches would be up to the individual municipalities? I'm not really sure.

[SnakeBoy]

Can't know how prevalent it is in the population if you aren't catching asymptomatic people. Right?

That's antibody testing. It's underway. I just got tested yesterday.

[ChumpDumper]

That's antibody testing. It's underway. I just got tested yesterday.So no testing for the virus until symptomatic is how it's going to be from now on?

OK, I guess.

What about contact tracing? Is there a plan there?

[SnakeBoy]

Magical thinking is one of his hallmarks.

I'm just giving you facts. You want a different plan then lay out you're plan. Do what Joe Biden's corpse can't do. Say what plan you want that is different from the experts.

Be specific

[ChumpDumper]

I'm just giving you facts.No, you aren't.

Not at all.

Basically what you're going to do is bend your thinking and posting towards whatever ends up making Trump and the GOP look good. That includes magical thinking for things like hydrochloroquine and being vague about the role of and responsibility for testing during the reopening of Texas and the country.

It's what you do.

I asked you what's the plan for testing.

Your answer: "We have testing."

Great plan.:tu

[SnakeBoy]

What about contact tracing? Is there a plan there?

Let's try this so we can establish where you are coming from.

Is Covid-19 the 5th endemic human coronavirus or do you think it can be "stopped"?

[RandomGuy]

That's antibody testing. It's underway. I just got tested yesterday.

No, that's not antibody testing. Sorry.

[pgardn]

That's antibody testing. It's underway. I just got tested yesterday.

What did they do to you, take blood?

[ChumpDumper]

Let's try this so we can establish where you are coming from.

Is Covid-19 the 5th endemic human coronavirus or do you think it can be "stopped"?So, no plan.

That's all you had to say.

Thank you for being cute about it.

[SnakeBoy]

What did they do to you, take blood?

Yes

[SnakeBoy]

No, that's not antibody testing. Sorry.

Did you watch the press conference today. They explained everything in detail.

[pgardn]

Yes

Then thats Antibody testing.
Damn, you had it.

Have you ever had the flu?
I need a comparison, how bad did you feel compared to other medical problems you might have had?
And do you feel like you have your breath back? like a walk up stairs or something similar is the same as when you were healthy?
Did they take a look at your lungs to see if they can tell of any damage?

The pilot I know who had this is not back 100% and he had it before you did.
But his family of mostly females are fine even though they got it.
It appears this is also beating the shit out of males at about 2 to 1

[TheGreatYacht]

Gov. Abbott announces phased reopening of Texas businesses

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/gov-abbott-reveals-plan-to-reopen-texas-economy/amp/

Thank you Greg Abbott

[SnakeBoy]

Then thats Antibody testing.
Damn, you had it.

Have you ever had the flu?
I need a comparison, how bad did you feel compared to other medical problems you might have had?
And do you feel like you have your breath back? like a walk up stairs or something similar is the same as when you were healthy?
Did they take a look at your lungs to see if they can tell of any damage?

The pilot I know who had this is not back 100% and he had it before you did.
But his family of mostly females are fine even though they got it.
It appears this is also beating the shit out of males at about 2 to 1

Well I just got the test. Results maybe Mon or Tues. We'll see.

I didn't have any respiratory illness.

[Winehole23]

Cool thread by Keri Blakinger about the TDCJ moving prisoners with COVID -19.

1251191610668449792

[CosmicCowboy]

Dang. I've enjoyed the traffic while all you non-essential fucks stayed home. Almost everybody is running 80+ on the freeways and the police are hiding out and not speed trapping.

[DMC]

Well I just got the test. Results maybe Mon or Tues. We'll see.

I didn't have any respiratory illness.

Why were you tested?

[Winehole23]

Dang. I've enjoyed the traffic while all you non-essential fucks stayed home. Almost everybody is running 80+ on the freeways and the police are hiding out and not speed trapping.
That tallies with my experience, traffic is lighter than Christmas morning here in Austin most of the time.

It was noticeably heavier yesterday. I had a few stops in Williamson County, you could hardly tell there's a shelter-in-place order. Traffic was brisk and parking lots were full.

[DMC]

No, that's not antibody testing. Sorry.


Then thats Antibody testing.
Damn, you had it.

Have you ever had the flu?
I need a comparison, how bad did you feel compared to other medical problems you might have had?
And do you feel like you have your breath back? like a walk up stairs or something similar is the same as when you were healthy?
Did they take a look at your lungs to see if they can tell of any damage?

The pilot I know who had this is not back 100% and he had it before you did.
But his family of mostly females are fine even though they got it.
It appears this is also beating the shit out of males at about 2 to 1

RG now stands for Random Guess :lol

[boutons_deux]

https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/93412129_2625401517783157_2907745300942684160_o.jp g?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_ohc=mmgDspzAnkIAX8lG066&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=083bcaa3681d9168710d451aabcefea2&oe=5EBF2A04

[SnakeBoy]

Why were you tested?

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283058&page=371&p=10113756&viewfull=1#post10113756

Next week I'll know if I'm right or wrong

[baseline bum]

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283058&page=371&p=10113756&viewfull=1#post10113756

Next week I'll know if I'm right or wrong

Do you know how accurate the test you took is thought to be?

[Winehole23]

Gov. Abbott has convened a strike force composed mainly of foxes to reopen the henhouse.


At least 21 of the council advisors have contributed more than $6 million to Abbott’s campaign war chest since 2015, according to an Observer analysis of campaign-finance records. Mike Toomey, a conservative superlobbyist known as one of the most powerful people in the state, will be in charge of the task force’s staff. Members of the council include billionaire business titan Drayton McClane Jr., who has contributed $1 million to Abbott; Robert Rowling, who has given around $750,000; Hilcorp Energy Company executive chairman Jeff Hildebrand, who has given $500,000; Nancy Kinder, who, with Kinder Morgan pipeline mogul and husband Richard Kinder, has given $525,000; Houston Rockets owner and casino and restaurant tycoon Tilman Fertitta, who has contributed $550,000; and Marc Watts, president of the conglomerate that owns Gulf States Toyota, whose PAC has funneled $500,000 to Abbott’s campaign account.

Other members of the so-called strike force who are also major Abbott donors include IBC Bank CEO Dennis Nixon, former Rackspace CEO Graham Weston, Perry Homes CEO Kathy Britton, construction magnate Alonzo Cantu, and restaurant operator Bobby Cox.

Members’ companies range from oil and gas, hotels, restaurant chains, fitness centers, and retail and could benefit significantly from an accelerated lifting of the statewide stay-at-home order, which currently restricts business operations to only essential services.


At least 21 of the council advisors have contributed more than $6 million to Abbott’s campaign war chest since 2015, according to an Observer analysis of campaign-finance records. Mike Toomey, a conservative superlobbyist known as one of the most powerful people in the state, will be in charge of the task force’s staff. Members of the council include billionaire business titan Drayton McClane Jr., who has contributed $1 million to Abbott; Robert Rowling, who has given around $750,000; Hilcorp Energy Company executive chairman Jeff Hildebrand, who has given $500,000; Nancy Kinder, who, with Kinder Morgan pipeline mogul and husband Richard Kinder, has given $525,000; Houston Rockets owner and casino and restaurant tycoon Tilman Fertitta, who has contributed $550,000; and Marc Watts, president of the conglomerate that owns Gulf States Toyota, whose PAC has funneled $500,000 to Abbott’s campaign account.

Other members of the so-called strike force who are also major Abbott donors include IBC Bank CEO Dennis Nixon, former Rackspace CEO Graham Weston, Perry Homes CEO Kathy Britton, construction magnate Alonzo Cantu, and restaurant operator Bobby Cox.

Members’ companies range from oil and gas, hotels, restaurant chains, fitness centers, and retail and could benefit significantly from an accelerated lifting of the statewide stay-at-home order, which currently restricts business operations to only essential services.https://www.texasobserver.org/texas-economy-greg-abbott-coronavirus/amp

[ChumpDumper]

Strike force? What are they striking?

[SnakeBoy]

Do you know how accurate the test you took is thought to be?

No but I think it is as accurate as they have since STBTC is doing it to get plasma donors and not just a surveillance study. She told me if I'm positive "above a certain level" then they'll take the plasma for treatment. They took 3 vials of blood so I'm guessing they are doing multiple tests to confirm.

It's kind of weird to be hoping to test positive for a disease. I'm flip flopping constantly while waiting for results...Yeah I definitely had it...fuck I probably didn't have it :lol

[boutons_deux]

Strike force? What are they striking?

military bullshit jargon.

the C19 strike force will start requiring employees to come back to work to risk being striked down by C19

what standing do these johns have to force anything to happen?

[pgardn]

Do you know how accurate the test you took is thought to be?

This is what is interesting.

This test should really be used to tell if a person has had, not has the disease.
Assume Snake had the disease. He should test positive if he has a good titer ( conc Of Ab)
If he had the disease it would be interesting to see how often after the disease he continues to test positive. We really don’t know how well people are protected from future infection based on what we know about the immune response. Theoretically, if his Ab titer went way down, as long as he had enough memory cells to make more Ab to the virus, he would be fine.

Now the viral dosage comes into play. If he had a very low concentration of Ab, but did have memory cells, it might not be good enough to stave off a large viral dose that then replicated quickly. The diseases that give us active immunity for a lifetime are slow replicating and cause our bodies to keep a sufficient number of memory cells for a lifetime. The vaccines therefore work very well. A few, like tetanus(not viral), need a booster to keep our memory cell concentration high enough.

It would be of interest to keep testing people like Snake if he tests +

[CosmicCowboy]

My sister tested negative on the covid test but she clearly had it. She has mostly recovered after feeling like shit with sporadic high fever and all the symptoms for a week.

The test supposedly gives at least 30% false negatives.

[LkrFan]

Is Chris in this crowd?
https://twitter.com/mannyNYT/status/1251564861257113602?s=19

Dumb farmer :lol

[pgardn]

My sister tested negative on the covid test but she clearly had it. She has mostly recovered after feeling like shit with sporadic high fever and all the symptoms for a week.

The test supposedly gives at least 30% false negatives.

She had the swab up the nose and halfway to her brain?

[CosmicCowboy]

She had the swab up the nose and halfway to her brain?

Yep. At texas med clinic that sent it off to Quest in Dallas.

[pgardn]

Yep. At texas med clinic that sent it off to Quest in Dallas.

Thats for the viral RNA.

[Xevious]

Strike force? What are they striking?
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71TWI3IiLzL._SY445_.jpg

[ElNono]

Is that what you think the goal is? Just randomly test x percentage of the population per day with or without symptoms?

We need the data. Especially antibody test results. It's the only sane way to plan large scale reopening and minimize additional spikes.

[ElNono]

That's antibody testing. It's underway. I just got tested yesterday.

Anecdote. Do we even have a nationwide plan for antibody testing? If we do, I haven't heard about it.

[CosmicCowboy]

Thats for the viral RNA.

Uhhhh....yeah. she was symptomatic and got tested for the boogievirus.

[ElNono]

My sister tested negative on the covid test but she clearly had it. She has mostly recovered after feeling like shit with sporadic high fever and all the symptoms for a week.

The test supposedly gives at least 30% false negatives.

This is another issue, and part of the whole bungling and clear of lack federal direction. FDA only approved 3 antibody tests, but then you have things like this:

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/unapproved-chinese-coronavirus-antibody-tests-being-used-least-2-states-n1185131

IIRC, there's over 50+ antibody tests out there being sold as "FDA-certified" or falsely claiming to be "FDA-approved".

Bad testing is worse than no testing.

[ChumpDumper]

This is another issue, and part of the whole bungling and clear of lack federal direction. FDA only approved 3 antibody tests, but then you have things like this:

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/unapproved-chinese-coronavirus-antibody-tests-being-used-least-2-states-n1185131

IIRC, there's over 50+ antibody tests out there being sold as "FDA-certified" or falsely claiming to be "FDA-approved".

Bad testing is worse than no testing.50+ antibody tests and 50+ testing strategies through 50+ supply chains.

What could go wrong?

[Trill Clinton]

Is Chris in this crowd?
https://twitter.com/mannyNYT/status/1251564861257113602?s=19

Dumb farmer :lol

dumbasses. stay away from these dummies folks. if you know anybody parroting this crap, keep your distance.

[Blake]

Is Chris in this crowd?
https://twitter.com/mannyNYT/status/1251564861257113602?s=19

Dumb farmer :lol

What's up with the sign that has "God" on it?

Is that a sock puppet on top?

Lol the Infowars t-shirt

Lol the banner about the "Mark of the beast"

Texans are so fucking stupid

[pgardn]

Uhhhh....yeah. she was symptomatic and got tested for the boogievirus.

Apparently a spit test has been developed so they wont have to cram a swab into the middle of our heads.
Well if she is symptomatic she might have already produced Ab and done a serological test.
We actually need this info as well.

This all is going to be important in starting to open partially now, and if/when we face this again.
Now that we at least have tests. Its going to be important to organize those who need to be tested asap, and those we want to follow. Somebody is going to have to organize this effort.

[SnakeBoy]

Anecdote. Do we even have a nationwide plan for antibody testing? If we do, I haven't heard about it.

Did you watch Friday's press conference?

[Winehole23]

Did you watch Friday's press conference?Nope, what's the plan?

[ElNono]

Did you watch Friday's press conference?

Nope. I'm less concerned with what's being said as opposed to what's being actually done.

After all, this president has been talking about "perfect tests" over a month ago, despite never actually acknowledging we have had a testing problem since the start. He's just not credible.

But if you have a link with info from the CDC about a federal testing program, do share. Thanks.

[ElNono]

Last I read/heard, every state is on their own when it comes to testing... including sourcing staff, testing supplies like re-agents, etc.

[pgardn]

Last I read/heard, every state is on their own when it comes to testing... including sourcing staff, testing supplies like re-agents, etc.

The CDC needs to head this effort.
With every State required to report back to them with numbers and such.
This is fairly critical imo if we dont want to relapse, and we do want to prevent and understand this event.
Even after we have a vaccine and a medicinal cure; fingers crossed.

If we treated this as a foreign invasion and the military wanted to figure out how to combat now and in the future... we would have the money and organization.
This thing is transmissible. Its fine to understand each state has their own unique environment and businesses, but viruses do not understand State boundaries.

Maybe we could pretend like the States were all EU countries and just fracture into little pieces with a bunch of little side arrangements on hoarding.

[SnakeBoy]

Nope. I'm less concerned with what's being said as opposed to what's being actually done.

After all, this president has been talking about "perfect tests" over a month ago, despite never actually acknowledging we have had a testing problem since the start. He's just not credible.

But if you have a link with info from the CDC about a federal testing program, do share. Thanks.

Well I don't know what to tell you are just going to believe what was still is. They (the experts) did a presentation on all the testing status, acknowledged problems they had that have been fixed and what still needs to be done. Also went over the testing plan for the PCR, antibody, and point of care tests.

[ChumpDumper]

Well I don't know what to tell you are just going to believe what was still is. They (the experts) did a presentation on all the testing status, acknowledged problems they had that have been fixed and what still needs to be done. Also went over the testing plan for the PCR, antibody, and point of care tests.And that plan is...?

[picnroll]

Well I don't know what to tell you are just going to believe what was still is. They (the experts) did a presentation on all the testing status, acknowledged problems they had that have been fixed and what still needs to be done. Also went over the testing plan for the PCR, antibody, and point of care tests.

Testing platforms are in place that can handle the volume of tests required. Swabs supplies are still limited but alternate collection method are available now and validated. Big problem is reagents. They remain in short supply, have to be sourced from foreign countries, namely China, and every country is trying to source them. Why in the world Trash said and keeps saying that testing is widely available, at one point early on saying everybody can get a test who wants to get tested, is a complete fantasy. Now he’s throwing shade at the governors, that everything is in place and they are the reason testing isn’t being done to scale. His focus is open up the economy no matter what. The hell with anything else, all else be damned.

[ChumpDumper]

Testing platforms are in place that can handle the volume of tests required. Swabs supplies are still limited but alternate collection method are available now and validated. Big problem is reagents. They remain in short supply, have to be sourced from foreign countries, namely China, and every country is trying to source them. Why in the world Trash said and keeps saying that testing is widely available, at one point early on saying everybody can get a test who wants to get tested, is a complete fantasy. Now he’s throwing shade at the governors, that everything is in place and they are the reason testing isn’t being done to scale. His focus is open up the economy no matter what. The hell with anything else, all else be damned.
Who needs swabs and reagents when you got thoughts and prayers?

[baseline bum]

The CDC needs to head this effort.
With every State required to report back to them with numbers and such.
This is fairly critical imo if we dont want to relapse, and we do want to prevent and understand this event.
Even after we have a vaccine and a medicinal cure; fingers crossed.

If we treated this as a foreign invasion and the military wanted to figure out how to combat now and in the future... we would have the money and organization.
This thing is transmissible. Its fine to understand each state has their own unique environment and businesses, but viruses do not understand State boundaries.

Maybe we could pretend like the States were all EU countries and just fracture into little pieces with a bunch of little side arrangements on hoarding.

What makes you think we don't want to relapse?

[ElNono]

The CDC needs to head this effort.
With every State required to report back to them with numbers and such.
This is fairly critical imo if we dont want to relapse, and we do want to prevent and understand this event.
Even after we have a vaccine and a medicinal cure; fingers crossed.

If we treated this as a foreign invasion and the military wanted to figure out how to combat now and in the future... we would have the money and organization.
This thing is transmissible. Its fine to understand each state has their own unique environment and businesses, but viruses do not understand State boundaries.

Maybe we could pretend like the States were all EU countries and just fracture into little pieces with a bunch of little side arrangements on hoarding.

Yeah, this whole federal government leading from behind certainly hasn't worked out, tbh...

Why are states competing against each other to get test supplies? Why is the federal government confiscating supplies once the states obtained them? This needs to be a coordinated effort.


Well I don't know what to tell you are just going to believe what was still is. They (the experts) did a presentation on all the testing status, acknowledged problems they had that have been fixed and what still needs to be done. Also went over the testing plan for the PCR, antibody, and point of care tests.

Like I said, a link to the CDC outlining the federal plan for testing and addressing the shortage of staff, supplies, etc would be a good start. Why do I have to tune in to press conferences for this? should be publicly available information.

It would also be reassuring that the information that comes from the federal government matches the information reported by the states, which has not been the case for a long time now. We seemingly spend more time bickering about who said what than actually making sure we address the problem.

[ElNono]

Well I don't know what to tell you are just going to believe what was still is. They (the experts) did a presentation on all the testing status, acknowledged problems they had that have been fixed and what still needs to be done. Also went over the testing plan for the PCR, antibody, and point of care tests.

BTW, a question about your testing. Did you went and did it out of your own volition (I suspect that's the case), or did you took the test based on some sort of state/federal program requesting people that had symptoms to go get an antibody test?

[clambake]

The boy in snakeboy is very prominent

[SnakeBoy]

BTW, a question about your testing. Did you went and did it out of your own volition (I suspect that's the case), or did you took the test based on some sort of state/federal program requesting people that had symptoms to go get an antibody test?

I contacted South Texas Blood & Tissue Center of my own volition after they publicly announced they were taking part in the FDA program and were looking for suspected or confirmed cases in the time frame that I was ill.

[DMC]

Last I read/heard, every state is on their own when it comes to testing... including sourcing staff, testing supplies like re-agents, etc.

Not true.

[DMC]

The boy in snakeboy is very prominent

You're so edgy. It's a very unique approach to internet posting tbh

[DMC]

Testing platforms are in place that can handle the volume of tests required. Swabs supplies are still limited but alternate collection method are available now and validated. Big problem is reagents. They remain in short supply, have to be sourced from foreign countries, namely China, and every country is trying to source them. Why in the world Trash said and keeps saying that testing is widely available, at one point early on saying everybody can get a test who wants to get tested, is a complete fantasy. Now he’s throwing shade at the governors, that everything is in place and they are the reason testing isn’t being done to scale. His focus is open up the economy no matter what. The hell with anything else, all else be damned.

They don't have to be sourced from China. US companies manufacture reagents in China, and China isn't releasing these to the US without days worth of "new" documentation to meet requirements (supposedly because early kits released to other countries were bogus and China has tightened the noose, but also because China trusts US companies' products more than their own).

[clambake]

china is busy getting biden elected

right blubber boy?

[DMC]

china is busy getting biden elected

right blubber boy?

:lol edgy and salty

[clambake]

nice edit


why haven't you found me yet?

[clambake]

spend all your time thinking about bonnerific?

[DMC]

nice edit


why haven't you found me yet?

Are you lost?

[DMC]

spend all your time thinking about bonnerific?

You have a similar posting style, mad at the world and think you're pithy. IRL you're a toad.

[clambake]

what is your story with bonnerific?


or would you rather talk about that in private?

[clambake]

You have a similar posting style, mad at the world and think you're pithy. IRL you're a toad.

mad at the world?

its my oyster



dig me up. fat boy

[DMC]

mad at the world?

its my oyster



dig me up. fat boy

:lol bowing up online like a toad

[DMC]

what is your story with bonnerific?


or would you rather talk about that in private?
Don't have a story with him. He was hyper-agitated all the time, got banned for it. Now he's a running joke when someone get's salty and melts down, like you're doing.

[clambake]

you and i know

why did you edit your post about bonnerific?

[DMC]

you and i know

why did you edit your post about bonnerific?
I know. You don't.

It was over your head. I decided to keep it simple so you don't get lost (like you are now).

[clambake]

I know. You don't.

It was over your head. I decided to keep it simple so you don't get lost (like you are now).

this place is political bickering at its best and you have let it rob you of honesty. damn

for another guy

[ElNono]

I contacted South Texas Blood & Tissue Center of my own volition after they publicly announced they were taking part in the FDA program and were looking for suspected or confirmed cases in the time frame that I was ill.

Thanks, so it's more the latter than the former. Will try to read up about this program, haven't heard of such a thing here in the West.

[ElNono]

Not true.

Do tell.

[ElNono]

They don't have to be sourced from China. US companies manufacture reagents in China, and China isn't releasing these to the US without days worth of "new" documentation to meet requirements (supposedly because early kits released to other countries were bogus and China has tightened the noose, but also because China trusts US companies' products more than their own).

Why do you think that is? And why do you think the DPA hasn't been used to force them to manufacture them here?

[DMC]

this place is political bickering at its best and you have let it rob you of honesty. damn

for another guy

This place is scoreboarding just like the NBA forum. There are a few here who can have a discussion without proselytizing their party, but very few, and I know who those are. I don't waste time with the others, but I do engage in the back and forth just like in the NBA forum.

The bickering here is far from "best". It's copypasta from other sites mostly.

[DMC]

Do tell.

States often choose to develop their own tests to save both kit costs and avoid regulatory issues associated with 3rd party kits (like lab temperature requirements, que times, chemistry qualities, NIST accuracy and precision requirements). LDTs (lab developed tests) are used all across the US, but some states prefer to outsource due to either manpower/time constraint or because they have fatter wallets.

[DMC]

Why do you think that is? And why do you think the DPA hasn't been used to force them to manufacture them here?

Same reason they manufacture other things abroad - more economically feasible. We've created an environment in the US that's almost caustic to manufacturing, like we don't want it here. We laud China for efficiency during a crisis, ignoring how they got there. We don't want to be like China.

You cannot just "manufacture here". There are many roadblocks to overcome and red tape to cut through before you can do that. The manufacturing has to be profitable for the company, else it has to be subsidized by the taxpayer. Forcing them to manufacture here means, when this epidemic has subsided, someone is left holding the bag. What has changed to lure manufacturing from cheaper countries with lower EPA requirements, other than the epidemic? Companies don't build to satisfy the peak demand in a crisis. They couldn't operate normally if they did.

[ElNono]

States often choose to develop their own tests to save both kit costs and avoid regulatory issues associated with 3rd party kits (like lab temperature requirements, que times, chemistry qualities, NIST accuracy and precision requirements). LDTs (lab developed tests) are used all across the US, but some states prefer to outsource due to either manpower/time constraint or because they have fatter wallets.

Except that the tests alone are not sufficient. You need staffing to do the tests, and especially you need associated resources like re-agents, PPE, otherwise the tests themselves can't be administered and are basically useless until the supplies show up.

And we all know the lack of supplies has been a major torn on the side in this whole thing, with the Federal government certainly doing confiscation of supplies:

But what I’m more interested in are reports of federal authorities confiscating physical shipments en route to states, local governments or regional hospital systems. The most publicized case of this came at some point in March when, according to Massachusetts Gov. Charlie Baker (R), a shipment of 3 million masks ordered through BJ’s Wholesale was seized by federal authorities in the Port of New York. Baker did not say which agency confiscated the goods or under what authority. That incident was what led to the widely reported and successful effort to fly goods in from China using the New England Patriots jet.

Another case happened just yesterday when the top county official in Somerset County, New Jersey, Freeholder Director Shanel Robinson, announced that a shipment of 35,000 masks had been confiscated by federal officials. According to this report in the Franklin Reporter and Advocate, “As of early in the afternoon of April 3, Robinson said that the county was told the surgical face masks would be delivered that day, but that the federal government had taken the N-95 masks.”

It’s not entirely clear from the report. But this does not sound like the federal government outbid the county or forced it to sell but rather that the physical shipment was interdicted and seized by federal authorities. Robinson said that the vendor didn’t say which agency confiscated the shipment.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/whats-up-with-the-feds-seizing-ppe-shipments-to-states-and-hospitals

The point being, how is this still not a coordinated effort by the federal government? Why are states and counties on their own when it comes to securing these resources?

We're still apparently not ready to do massive testing, the kind we need to safely reopen.

[ElNono]

Same reason they manufacture other things abroad - more economically feasible. We've created an environment in the US that's almost caustic to manufacturing, like we don't want it here. We laud China for efficiency during a crisis, ignoring how they got there. We don't want to be like China.

You cannot just "manufacture here". There are many roadblocks to overcome and red tape to cut through before you can do that. The manufacturing has to be profitable for the company, else it has to be subsidized by the taxpayer. Forcing them to manufacture here means, when this epidemic has subsided, someone is left holding the bag. What has changed to lure manufacturing from cheaper countries with lower EPA requirements, other than the epidemic? Companies don't build to satisfy the peak demand in a crisis. They couldn't operate normally if they did.

That's exactly what laws like the DPA were written for, to cut right through the red tape and the profit motive. There's many provisions to the law, including the confiscation part mentioned in my previous post but also to mandate companies to shift production lines to manufacture necessary items, even if it's not entirely profitable for the company (the DPA does mandate the federal government to compensate the company though). Unfortunately this administration has been reluctant to use that provision, and it costs lives.

[ElNono]

Now you could tell me the US lacks the raw materials to create those supplies, I would have to take your word for it. But so far I have not heard that being the case.

[CosmicCowboy]

Now you could tell me the US lacks the raw materials to create those supplies, I would have to take your word for it. But so far I have not heard that being the case.

Clearly we could manufacture here but there was an economic incentive to outsource it to china. Paper masks pre-covid were like 10 cents apiece. Would probably cost 10 times that to manufacture here. Of course they are selling for that now on Amazon.

[DMC]

That's exactly what laws like the DPA were written for, to cut right through the red tape and the profit motive. There's many provisions to the law, including the confiscation part mentioned in my previous post but also to mandate companies to shift production lines to manufacture necessary items, even if it's not entirely profitable for the company (the DPA does mandate the federal government to compensate the company though). Unfortunately this administration has been reluctant to use that provision, and it costs lives.
Shifting manufacturing lines is easier said than done when your time frame is weeks instead of months. Ramping up a manufacturing line takes a while, and that's even after getting the necessary equipment, infrastructure and permits.

[DMC]

Clearly we could manufacture here but there was an economic incentive to outsource it to china. Paper masks pre-covid were like 10 cents apiece. Would probably cost 10 times that to manufacture here. Of course they are selling for that now on Amazon.

Because the cost of medical care is so high, we find ways to reduce it by outsourcing not only materials but also labor and even technical support. Last year at this time, the cost of medical care was far more important a topic than the availability of PPE. Politicians campaign on popular talking points. Imagine someone said "If I am elected, I will ensure we quadruple PPE in the US, more ventilators and more hospital beds!". They'd be ignored by media.

[ChumpDumper]

Shifting manufacturing lines is easier said than done when your time frame is weeks instead of months. Ramping up a manufacturing line takes a while, and that's even after getting the necessary equipment, infrastructure and permits.Sounds like an argument for a stockpile 20 years ago.

[ChumpDumper]

Because the cost of medical care is so high, we find ways to reduce it by outsourcing not only materials but also labor and even technical support. Last year at this time, the cost of medical care was far more important a topic than the availability of PPE. Politicians campaign on popular talking points. Imagine someone said "If I am elected, I will ensure we quadruple PPE in the US, more ventilators and more hospital beds!". They'd be ignored by media.Or they could just, you know, do some of those things when they are in office. Clinton started the stockpile after reading a novel.

[DMC]

Now you could tell me the US lacks the raw materials to create those supplies, I would have to take your word for it. But so far I have not heard that being the case.

Let me give you a hypothetical situation.

Lab A wants to start making their own reagents. They need microfluidics, expertise, lab space, facilities and logistics to both initiate and maintain supply influx and waste disposal. All of this cannot happen in 1 week when everyone wants to do it at the same time. First they contact the vendor for microfluidics, they don't have warehoused units but can start a build. That will take time for ISO9001 level testing, IQ/OQ and the like. Then it has to be shipped, received, installed and optimized. A scientist with knowledge of the test has to be present to support the process. In parallel chemicals must be ordered. Sometimes they are provided by the vendor of the microfluidics, sometimes they are outsourced from other suppliers. There has to be warehoused material to start moving on it right away, otherwise those companies have to ramp up.

It's a dominoes effect. Stacked lag time creates a large time gap to the remove viewer who only sees the output.

[DMC]

Sounds like an argument for a stockpile 20 years ago.

You cannot stockpile masks for 20 years, hell I have N95s in my garage still in the package that the rubber bands have disintegrated from. Much of this stuff has a very finite shelf life.

It's more of a choice for preparedness vs lifestyle. Do we elect leaders based on promises or preparedness of promises of improved lifestyle?

How much have you (rhetorically speaking) personally prepared for it? I have masks, but since I am part of society, me being protected doesn't really protect me from the economical fallout.

[DMC]

Let me give you a hypothetical situation.

Lab A wants to start making their own reagents. They need microfluidics, expertise, lab space, facilities and logistics to both initiate and maintain supply influx and waste disposal. All of this cannot happen in 1 week when everyone wants to do it at the same time. First they contact the vendor for microfluidics, they don't have warehoused units but can start a build. That will take time for ISO9001 level testing, IQ/OQ and the like. Then it has to be shipped, received, installed and optimized. A scientist with knowledge of the test has to be present to support the process. In parallel chemicals must be ordered. Sometimes they are provided by the vendor of the microfluidics, sometimes they are outsourced from other suppliers. There has to be warehoused material to start moving on it right away, otherwise those companies have to ramp up.

It's a dominoes effect. Stacked lag time creates a large time gap to the remove viewer who only sees the output.

This doesn't even account for time to get a purchase order request signed off at government levels.

[ChumpDumper]

You cannot stockpile masks for 20 years, hell I have N95s in my garage still in the package that the rubber bands have disintegrated from. Much of this stuff has a very finite shelf life. You don't think that was considered 20 years ago when the civilian stockpile started? Or even further back with military stockpiles?

[DMC]

You don't think that was considered 20 years ago when the civilian stockpile started? Or even further back with military stockpiles?

I know it was. Programs get pilfered to support other programs. You want to give Iran billions, it has to come from somewhere.

And it's notable that you cut out most of my response to you. It illustrates that responding to you is a futile endeavor. You'll never change.

[ChumpDumper]

I know it was.Then don't act like it wasn't.


Programs get pilfered to support other programs.Not necessarily.

[DMC]

Then don't act like it wasn't.

Not necessarily.

https://phc.amedd.army.mil/PublishingImages/190221-A-KQ498-0078.jpg

vs

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71Jj2Mlm0bL._AC_SL1500_.jpg


Even the 3M 6001 cartridges are exponentially better than the N95, but overkill and all. The Army loves overkill.

[ChumpDumper]

https://phc.amedd.army.mil/PublishingImages/190221-A-KQ498-0078.jpg

vs

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71Jj2Mlm0bL._AC_SL1500_.jpg


Even the 3M 6001 cartridges are exponentially better than the N95, but overkill and all. The Army loves overkill.The military had five million N95 masks stockpiled they gave to HHS. I'm sure they still have a lot for their own use. Why pretend none of this is possible?

[DMC]

The military had five million N95 masks stockpiled they gave to HHS.

"The military had" just means "the feds had".

[ChumpDumper]

"The military had" just means "the feds had".Defense Secretary Mark Esper announced Tuesday that the military will open up its stockpile of medical supplies to back up civilian public health agencies bracing for an outbreak that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has estimated could affect more than 100 million Americans.

Up to five million N95 breathing masks and 2,000 ventilators are on tap, as requested by the Health and Human Services Department, Esper said, for distribution to civilian medical providers.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/03/17/the-military-is-sending-breathing-masks-ventilators-to-civilian-hospitals/

Whatever the source, it's a stockpile.

[DMC]

Defense Secretary Mark Esper announced Tuesday that the military will open up its stockpile of medical supplies to back up civilian public health agencies bracing for an outbreak that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has estimated could affect more than 100 million Americans.

Up to five million N95 breathing masks and 2,000 ventilators are on tap, as requested by the Health and Human Services Department, Esper said, for distribution to civilian medical providers.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/03/17/the-military-is-sending-breathing-masks-ventilators-to-civilian-hospitals/

Whatever the source, it's a stockpile.

So the feds were prepared.

[ChumpDumper]

And it's not like the stockpile wasn't at one time almost ten times as large as it was going into this pandemic.

The national stockpile used to be somewhat more robust. In 2006, Congress provided supplemental funds to add 104 million N95 masks and 52 million surgical masks in an effort to prepare for a flu pandemic.

We've already done all this. Why pretend we didn't?

[ChumpDumper]

So the feds were prepared.No. See above.

Unless you think 12 million is the same as 104+ million.

[DMC]

And it's not like the stockpile wasn't at one time almost ten times as large as it was going into this pandemic.

The national stockpile used to be somewhat more robust. In 2006, Congress provided supplemental funds to add 104 million N95 masks and 52 million surgical masks in an effort to prepare for a flu pandemic.

We've already done all this. Why pretend we didn't?

That number pales in comparison to what could be needed in a serious outbreak. Government scientists in 2015 estimated that a severe flu outbreak infecting 20 to 30 percent of the population would require at least 1.7 billion of the N95 respirators

From same article.

[DMC]

No. See above.

Unless you think 12 million is the same as 104+ million.

Unless you think 104 million is arbitrarily "prepared" because it's a higher number, see above.

[ChumpDumper]

That number pales in comparison to what could be needed in a serious outbreak. Government scientists in 2015 estimated that a severe flu outbreak infecting 20 to 30 percent of the population would require at least 1.7 billion of the N95 respirators

From same article.So you agree 12 million is less adequate than 104+ million in a stockpile?

[ChumpDumper]

Unless you think 104 million is arbitrarily "prepared" because it's a higher number, see above.Would it be more prepared or less prepared than 12 million in you opinion?

[DMC]

So you agree 12 million is less adequate than 104+ million in a stockpile?

But after the H1N1 influenza outbreak in 2009, which triggered a nationwide shortage of masks and caused a 2- to 3-year backlog orders for the N95 variety, the stockpile distributed about three-quarters of its inventory and didn’t build back the supply.

Weren't the Dems in charge then?

Where's the threads highlighting the outcry from then?

Adequate is adequate, there's not more or less. If you need 12 feet of rope to reach something, 8 feet isn't more adequate than 3 feet. You still cannot reach it.

[DMC]

Would it be more prepared or less prepared than 12 million in you opinion?

If you need 1.2 billion, it's a moot point.

[ElNono]

Clearly we could manufacture here but there was an economic incentive to outsource it to china. Paper masks pre-covid were like 10 cents apiece. Would probably cost 10 times that to manufacture here. Of course they are selling for that now on Amazon.


Because the cost of medical care is so high, we find ways to reduce it by outsourcing not only materials but also labor and even technical support. Last year at this time, the cost of medical care was far more important a topic than the availability of PPE. Politicians campaign on popular talking points. Imagine someone said "If I am elected, I will ensure we quadruple PPE in the US, more ventilators and more hospital beds!". They'd be ignored by media.

The incentive is the profit margin, let's not pretend it's anything else. I would even go ahead and say it might be unprofitable to do them here, but THAT is the point of emergency laws like the DPA, and since government is already doing the freeshit thing, might aswell spend the money on stuff we need.

The WHO tests were perfectly fine, and plenty of countries do a whole lot of testing, but we 'decided' that corporate cronyism was more valuable than saving lives. The incompetence is frankly disgusting and deadly.

More troublesome is that, after that fact, this isn't being coordinated. Instead we have everybody running for the hills on their own. So it wasn't just incompetent to start, it continues to be.


Shifting manufacturing lines is easier said than done when your time frame is weeks instead of months. Ramping up a manufacturing line takes a while, and that's even after getting the necessary equipment, infrastructure and permits.


Let me give you a hypothetical situation.

Lab A wants to start making their own reagents. They need microfluidics, expertise, lab space, facilities and logistics to both initiate and maintain supply influx and waste disposal. All of this cannot happen in 1 week when everyone wants to do it at the same time. First they contact the vendor for microfluidics, they don't have warehoused units but can start a build. That will take time for ISO9001 level testing, IQ/OQ and the like. Then it has to be shipped, received, installed and optimized. A scientist with knowledge of the test has to be present to support the process. In parallel chemicals must be ordered. Sometimes they are provided by the vendor of the microfluidics, sometimes they are outsourced from other suppliers. There has to be warehoused material to start moving on it right away, otherwise those companies have to ramp up.

It's a dominoes effect. Stacked lag time creates a large time gap to the remove viewer who only sees the output.

Apparently that's not the case at all. See:

Ohio’s Mike DeWine, a Republican, said there were technical issues.

“Our big problem today,“ he said on NBC’s “Meet the Press, “I could probably double, maybe even triple testing in Ohio virtually overnight, if the FDA would prioritize companies that are putting a slightly different formula together for the extraction reagent kit. And that’s, it’s — if the FDA would do that -- we have a shortage, worldwide shortage of some of the materials that go into this. So, we really need help — if anybody in the FDA is watching, this would really take our, take our capacity up.”


BTW, this is a good read and includes more quotes of what the federal government says vs what the governors say. It's tone deaf, and pointing fingers instead of working together:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/19/pence-governors-ramp-up-coronavirus-testing-194340

But this is the hazard of not coordinating, and now we're planning to reopen and these guys are still arguing whose fault is it?

[DMC]

But I agree, the dems did a shit job of preparing.

[ChumpDumper]

But after the H1N1 influenza outbreak in 2009, which triggered a nationwide shortage of masks and caused a 2- to 3-year backlog orders for the N95 variety, the stockpile distributed about three-quarters of its inventory and didn’t build back the supply.

Weren't the Dems in charge then?Sure.


Where's the threads highlighting the outcry from then?I was unaware of it. As were you. Trump was warned to stockpile PPE a few times in the past couple years.


Adequate is adequate, there's not more or less. If you need 12 feet of rope to reach something, 8 feet isn't more adequate than 3 feet. You still cannot reach it.It's not rope. It is a stockpile of masks.

Are you better equipped for a pandemic with 12 million masks or 104+ million masks?

[ChumpDumper]

But I agree, the dems did a shit job of preparing.Sure.

Do you agree the Republicans did a shit job of preparing?

Yes or no.

[Spurtacular]

But I agree, the dems did a shit job of preparing.


Sure.

[ChumpDumper]

:cryDo you agree the Republicans did a shit job of preparing?

Yes or no.

[DMC]

The incentive is the profit margin, let's not pretend it's anything else. I would even go ahead and say it might be unprofitable to do them here, but THAT is the point of emergency laws like the DPA, and since government is already doing the freeshit thing, might aswell spend the money on stuff we need.

The WHO tests were perfectly fine, and plenty of countries do a whole lot of testing, but we 'decided' that corporate cronyism was more valuable than saving lives. The incompetence is frankly disgusting and deadly.

More troublesome is that, after that fact, this isn't being coordinated. Instead we have everybody running for the hills on their own. So it wasn't just incompetent to start, it continues to be.





Apparently that's not the case at all. See:

Ohio’s Mike DeWine, a Republican, said there were technical issues.

“Our big problem today,“ he said on NBC’s “Meet the Press, “I could probably double, maybe even triple testing in Ohio virtually overnight, if the FDA would prioritize companies that are putting a slightly different formula together for the extraction reagent kit. And that’s, it’s — if the FDA would do that -- we have a shortage, worldwide shortage of some of the materials that go into this. So, we really need help — if anybody in the FDA is watching, this would really take our, take our capacity up.”


BTW, this is a good read and includes more quotes of what the federal government says vs what the governors say. It's tone deaf, and pointing fingers instead of working together:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/19/pence-governors-ramp-up-coronavirus-testing-194340

But this is the hazard of not coordinating, and now we're planning to reopen and these guys are still arguing whose fault is it?

On the first point - both CC and I mentioned cost of operation and that of course translates to profit margin. Who here ever said "gee, I wish I could find that same thing for more?" You'll buy the cheaper one if the quality is similar and availability is acceptable. Knowing that, corporations owe it to their stockholders to maximize profits. They don't create the tendency for American individuals and companies to choose money over country. They only capitalize on it. I believe Trump ran on a platform of bring manufacturing back to the US instead of outsourcing it even if it meant subsidizing it some.

I don't quite understand your 2nd point. You're not ramping up manufacturing by going to different companies. Apples vs oranges.

[DMC]

Sure.

I was unaware of it. As were you. Trump was warned to stockpile PPE a few times in the past couple years.

It's not rope. It is a stockpile of masks.

Are you better equipped for a pandemic with 12 million masks or 104+ million masks?

Didn't Obama have 7 years to do it?

You weren't aware of it. Now you are. Hindsight is 20/20.

Having just come off the H1N1 crisis, why didn't the Obama administration backfill?

[Blake]

But I agree, the dems did a shit job of preparing.

But you're not into Team Sports

[DMC]

But you're not into Team Sports

But your wife was.

[Blake]

But your wife was.


I never talk about sex lives here. That's all you guys

[ChumpDumper]

Didn't Obama have 7 years to do it?Yes.

Didn't Trump have 3?


You weren't aware of it. Now you are. Hindsight is 20/20.

Having just come off the H1N1 crisis, why didn't the Obama administration backfill?I have no idea.

Why didn't Trump after multiple warnings?

Are you better equipped for a pandemic with 12 million masks or 104+ million masks?

Do you agree the Republicans did a shit job of preparing?

[DMC]

The bottom line is a country has only so much buffer for crisis. In your own personal life, you have only so much buffer for crisis. If we or if you experience a life altering event that soaks up that buffer, you could easily hindsight yourself into retardation about the buffer size, but the fact is there are many things we could die from and we decided at some point that building our individual portfolios was more important than building a nest egg of PPE, or maintaining 330 million people supply of life saving materials to be used in parallel.

Could be better, could be worse. It is what it is. Feds have not done a great job preparing for this yet many here want them running national healthcare.