Texas response to Corona virus

[DMC]

Oh.
The one you decided that I invented it.
And then when I explained it you went silent.
Yes. I remember.

So when I gave it back to you, the Editor and writer for TIME MAGAZINE, you did not like it.
Imagine that.

You said it. You've been sore since I hung you out to dry, following me around like I'm the HS quarterback and you're some chick I dumped before the prom.

You never said what specific part of ELISA you developed. I'm still waiting for that startling revelation. It will change science as we know it.

[DMC]

The sharp increase in numbers of infections, hospitalizations and deaths compared to the relative flatness of the past few months..

Now I'm talking about the terms you will use if you ever get the strength to express an opinion. I get the felling you'd rather talk about me.

Defining a subjective term with another subjective term :lol

[ChumpDumper]

Defining a subjective term with another subjective term :lol:lol if you want to challenge the assertion the increases are sharp, just say so.

SPOILER ALERT: You won't because you're afraid to express any opinion of your own.

I could quantify each increase over a period of time and post it. It would make no difference at all to you since the only thing you want to do is avoid posting your actual subjective opinion of the current situation in Texas.

:lol

[DMC]

:lol if you want to challenge the assertion the increases are sharp, just say so.

SPOILER ALERT: You won't because you're afraid to express any opinion of your own.

I could quantify each increase over a period of time and post it. It would make no difference at all to you since the only thing you want to do is avoid posting your actual subjective opinion of the current situation in Texas.

:lol

If you were worth a fuck, you'd have hit me with data. Instead you continue to use layman terms and subjective, safe words to avoid commitment. You're hoping to drag out one tiny point all night, maybe even two days. I already know you have nothing to offer, which is why you offered nothing and pretend someone needs to coax it out of you by time bartering.

:lol Never change dude.

[ChumpDumper]

If you were worth a fuck, you'd have hit me with dataOh shit. You're right. I should have assumed you are completely ignorant of the levels of infection, hospitalizations and deaths related to COVID in Texas.

So let's start there.

Are you completely ignorant of these levels and how they have changed over the past three months?

Yes or no.

I'm looking forward to your honest answer.

[Blake]

"HOUSTON — Monday was another record-breaking day across the Greater Houston area. Together, 20 Houston-area counties reported 3,037 new COVID-19 cases. The previous single-day record was set when 2,596 cases were reported on Saturday...…."

https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/greater-houston-region-records-highest-one-day-total-for-new-covid-19-cases/285-54300fa6-d761-4646-8cce-8fb050910246

[midnightpulp]

"HOUSTON — Monday was another record-breaking day across the Greater Houston area. Together, 20 Houston-area counties reported 3,037 new COVID-19 cases. The previous single-day record was set when 2,596 cases were reported on Saturday...…."

https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/greater-houston-region-records-highest-one-day-total-for-new-covid-19-cases/285-54300fa6-d761-4646-8cce-8fb050910246

:madrun Backlogs!
:madrun From/with
:madrun only old people die

[ChumpDumper]

"HOUSTON — Monday was another record-breaking day across the Greater Houston area. Together, 20 Houston-area counties reported 3,037 new COVID-19 cases. The previous single-day record was set when 2,596 cases were reported on Saturday...…."

https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/greater-houston-region-records-highest-one-day-total-for-new-covid-19-cases/285-54300fa6-d761-4646-8cce-8fb050910246DMC and tholdren say this is fine.

[Blake]

DMC and tholdren say this is fine.

PLENTY OF BEDS AVAILABLE BUT NOT NEEDED BECAUSE IFR AND LOCKDOWN UNNECESSARY AND 2 POINT PERCENTAGE IN BASKETBALL

[Blake]

And whataboutnewyork

[midnightpulp]

Not good.
https://i.imgur.com/XWJ5AVv.png

[ChumpDumper]

Not good.
https://i.imgur.com/XWJ5AVv.pngAlso fine. Here's a talking point about New York I got from twitter.

[ElNono]

There will still be more deaths in NY than all those states combined.

I hope so. These kind of posts haven't aged well in the covid era.

[boutons_deux]

Texas hospitals are running out of drugs, beds, ventilators and even staff

Many Texas hospitals are no longer accepting transfer patients in order to maintain space for a surge that’s expected to come. In some parts of the state, it’s already here.

Ambulances are waiting up to 10 hours to deliver patients to packed Hidalgo County emergency rooms.

And short-staffed hospitals in Midland and Odessa have had to turn away ailing COVID-19 patients from rural West Texas facilities that can’t offer the care they need.

Texas hospitals are taking extraordinary steps to make space for a surge of patients.

Some facilities in South Texas say they are dangerously close to filling up,

while hospitals elsewhere are taking precautionary measures to keep their numbers manageable.

Doctors warn of shortages of an antiviral drug that shows promise for treating COVID-19 patients.

And epidemiologists say the state’s hospitals may be in for a longer, harder ride than places like New York, :lol

“It used to [be that] if one hospital got kind of overwhelmed … you would start transferring out ICU patients to other facilities that had ICU beds available,”

“And there really is none of that now, because everybody’s in the same boat and they’re struggling to get their own patients admitted.”

“It’s going to be a rough few weeks,”

“Most everything we’re seeing is worrisome or scary.”

Many Texas hospitals have stopped accepting transfer patients in order to maintain space for a surge that’s expected to come.

DHR Health, based in Edinburg, ... spending more than $9 million to convert a hospice center and rehabilitation facility into COVID-19 units.

“We’re full to the gills,”

“There’s nothing else other than COVID. …

You treat COVID,

you look at COVID,

you see COVID,

you smell COVID,

you hear COVID.

Everything’s COVID,”

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/07/texas-hospitals-are-running-out-of-drugs-beds-ventilators-and-even-staff/?utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=4964&recip_id=298460&list_id=1

[DMC]

I hope so. These kind of posts haven't aged well in the covid era.

If NY continues losing people, it could still hold up. The equation works from both sides.

[DMC]

You remember when his wife used to post here, right?
No

[midnightpulp]

If NY continues losing people, it could still hold up. The equation works from both sides.

Grain of salt in comparing Texas, FL, CA, and GA is that they don't count probable deaths as liberally as New York did.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

You'll see in states that count probable deaths, they usually show more Covid deaths than non-flu pneumonia deaths (scroll down to table 2).

But even accounting for that, those states have a ways to go before catching New York. About 10K deaths.

[boutons_deux]

If NY continues losing people, it could still hold up. The equation works from both sides.

B U L L S H I T

look at states NY and Texas

https://www.statnews.com/feature/coronavirus/covid-19-tracker/?utm_campaign=hp_widget

[boutons_deux]

Joe Biden builds 5-point lead over Donald Trump in red Texas as some voters sour on handling of virus

Amid rollbacks of the state’s COVID-19 re openings,

Gov. Greg Abbott has also lost some luster.

And in the past seven days, 82% of Texans wore a mask

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/public-health/2020/07/12/joe-biden-builds-lead-over-donald-trump-in-reliably-red-texas-as-voters-sour-on-handling-of-virus (https://www.dallasnews.com/news/public-health/2020/07/12/joe-biden-builds-lead-over-donald-trump-in-reliably-red-texas-as-voters-sour-on-handling-of-virus/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Runoff+Election+Day+in+Texas%2C+DMN+po ll+shows+Biden+leading+Trump%2C+Texas+Republicans+ move+convention+online+after+courts+rule+against+t hem&utm_campaign=politics_07142020)

[Spurtacular]

No

Can't remember her name right off. She was fruity, kind of what you'd expect from a guy who married randomcuck.
She was nice enough though. Apparently, he pleaded for her to stop posting after she announced he was a cuckold / they had had open marriage.

[boutons_deux]

Coronavirus Worries Are Closing Polling Sites


With more deaths, hospitalizations, and cases of the novel coronavirus reported each day in Bexar County, more election officials have decided against working on election day Tuesday.

The elections department already reduced the number of voting locations (https://therivardreport.com/election-day-locations-shrink-by-8-voting-sites-after-workers-bow-out/) last week after some

election officials said they could not serve due to their risk of contracting the coronavirus.

https://therivardreport.com/coronavirus-worries-are-closing-polling-sites-heres-what-to-expect-as-you-vote-today (https://therivardreport.com/coronavirus-worries-are-closing-polling-sites-heres-what-to-expect-as-you-vote-today/?utm_campaign=f2012dfd11-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_12_21_07_19_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Rivard%20Report&utm_content=editorial&utm_term=0_1576c62124-f2012dfd11-84683437&mc_cid=f2012dfd11&mc_eid=54a5432c74)

[tholdren]

Grain of salt in comparing Texas, FL, CA, and GA is that they don't count probable deaths as liberally as New York did.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

You'll see in states that count probable deaths, they usually show more Covid deaths than non-flu pneumonia deaths (scroll down to table 2).

But even accounting for that, those states have a ways to go before catching New York. About 10K deaths.
Lol your logic. Bwahahhaahhahaha

[tholdren]

Not good.
https://i.imgur.com/XWJ5AVv.png

lololol you have no idea what you are posting. Bwabhahahhahahahahahah

[spurraider21]

I hope so. These kind of posts haven't aged well in the covid era.
But did you know Cuomo sent recovering patients to nursing homes?

[midnightpulp]

lololol you have no idea what you are posting. Bwabhahahhahahahahahah

Show your math.

[RandomGuy]

Grain of salt in comparing Texas, FL, CA, and GA is that they don't count probable deaths as liberally as New York did.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

You'll see in states that count probable deaths, they usually show more Covid deaths than non-flu pneumonia deaths (scroll down to table 2).

But even accounting for that, those states have a ways to go before catching New York. About 10K deaths.

Texas does not count probable deaths. Which is why we are undercounting it, AND the disease is vastly more widespread.
https://dshs.texas.gov/coronavirus/TexasCOVID19DailyCountyFatalityCountData.xlsx

Even so the 10 day moving average of fatalities is now 66, and that is double what it was a week ago. The first surge of deaths from the increased caseload a week or two ago is happening now.

[RandomGuy]

Can't remember her name right off. She was fruity, kind of what you'd expect from a guy who married randomcuck.
She was nice enough though. Apparently, he pleaded for her to stop posting after she announced he was a cuckold / they had had open marriage.

Nope. That did not happen. That is basically your fantasy about what happened.

Every time you claim this shit, you go digging for the proof... and fail, because the thing you pin all this on doesn't say what you fantasize it does. It's sad.

[RandomGuy]

:lol if you want to challenge the assertion the increases are sharp, just say so.

SPOILER ALERT: You won't because you're afraid to express any opinion of your own.

I could quantify each increase over a period of time and post it. It would make no difference at all to you since the only thing you want to do is avoid posting your actual subjective opinion of the current situation in Texas.

:lol

5-13 Ten day moving average 1085 cases
6-13 Ten day moving average 1774 cases
6-19 Ten day moving average 2605 cases
6-26 Ten day moving average 4441 cases
7-03 Ten day moving average 6316 cases
7-10 Ten day moving average 8012 cases
7-13 Ten day moving average 8078 cases

https://dshs.texas.gov/coronavirus/TexasCOVID19DailyCountyCaseCountData.xlsx

Subtract case total from previous day, add the resulting current and past nine days new case number, and divide by ten.

I would define a sharp rise as anything over 100% in a month. In the last 30 calendar days the daily case load average has gone up 455%

[ChumpDumper]

5-13 Ten day moving average 1085 cases
6-13 Ten day moving average 1774 cases
6-19 Ten day moving average 2605 cases
6-26 Ten day moving average 4441 cases
7-03 Ten day moving average 6316 cases
7-10 Ten day moving average 8012 cases
7-13 Ten day moving average 8078 cases

https://dshs.texas.gov/coronavirus/TexasCOVID19DailyCountyCaseCountData.xlsx

Subtract case total from previous day, add the resulting current and past nine days new case number, and divide by ten.

I would define a sharp rise as anything over 100% in a month. In the last 30 calendar days the daily case load average has gone up 455%Thanks. It's a sharp increase and it's not fine. DMC is free to disagree but he'll have to post his own opinion if he actually feels things are fine.

[Spurtacular]

Nope. That did not happen. That is basically your fantasy about what happened.

Every time you claim this shit, you go digging for the proof... and fail, because the thing you pin all this on doesn't say what you fantasize it does. It's sad.

Her departure coincides with the timing of MS's claim. Are you saying you haven't had an open marriage at one time or another?

[Spurtacular]

5-13 Ten day moving average 1085 cases
6-13 Ten day moving average 1774 cases
6-19 Ten day moving average 2605 cases
6-26 Ten day moving average 4441 cases
7-03 Ten day moving average 6316 cases
7-10 Ten day moving average 8012 cases
7-13 Ten day moving average 8078 cases

https://dshs.texas.gov/coronavirus/TexasCOVID19DailyCountyCaseCountData.xlsx

Subtract case total from previous day, add the resulting current and past nine days new case number, and divide by ten.

I would define a sharp rise as anything over 100% in a month. In the last 30 calendar days the daily case load average has gone up 455%

Save it for the fear porn thread. :lol

I bet you're getting a thrill up your leg thinking of this all. :lol

[ChumpDumper]

Save it for the fear porn thread. :lol

I bet you're getting a thrill up your leg thinking of this all. :lolWhy are you posting in this thread?

[Spurtacular]

Why are you posting in this thread?

I got quoted. You clutching your pearls?

[ChumpDumper]

I got quoted.You weren't quoted in the post you replied to. Why do you have a problem with posting stats from he Republican Texas govenment?

[Spurtacular]

You weren't quoted in the post you replied to. Why do you have a problem with posting stats from he Republican Texas govenment?

You didn't ask me why I was responding to the post. You asked me why I was posting in the thread.

So, again I ask; you clutching your pearls?

[ChumpDumper]

You didn't ask me why I was responding to the post. You asked me why I was quoting in the thread.:lol that's not even what I asked.

You're so dishonest about everything.

[Spurtacular]

Why do you have a problem with posting stats from he Republican Texas govenment?

Agencies are Republican?

[ChumpDumper]

Agencies are Republican?The state government is. If you have a conspiracy theory about it or the agencies it controls, post it or fold.

[Spurtacular]

The state government is. If you have a conspiracy theory about it or the agencies it controls, post it or fold.

There is no state agency that officially operates at the legal behest of a political party. In fact, there are laws against that. Or are you saying that officially agencies in Texas are Republican?

[ChumpDumper]

There is no state agency that officially operates at the legal behest of a political party. In fact, there are laws against that. Or are you saying that officially agencies in Texas are Republican?I am saying they are controlled by Republicans and if the Republicans who control these agencies disagreed with the numbers the agency releases we would know about it.

Do the Texas Republicans controlling the government dispute the numbers the Texas government is reporting?

Yes or no.

[tholdren]

:lol that's not even what I asked.

You're so dishonest about everything.

lol anyone who calls out chumpdump gets the youre lying response. Emotional

[ChumpDumper]

lol anyone who calls out chumpdump gets the youre lying response. Emotional:lmao now you don't want to allow people to call you a liar. Emotional.

[RandomGuy]

Thanks. It's a sharp increase and it's not fine. DMC is free to disagree but he'll have to post his own opinion if he actually feels things are fine.

DMC will continue being a chickenshit. I am as sure of that, as that the sun will come up tomorrow.

[RandomGuy]

Save it for the fear porn thread. :lol

I bet you're getting a thrill up your leg thinking of this all. :lol

Are the Republicans in charge of Texas lying? Why is it "fear porn".

Fill in the blank "it is fear porn because_______________"????

I merely pointed out publicly available data.

[Blake]

DMC will continue being a chickenshit. I am as sure of that, as that the sun will come up tomorrow.

As sure as every news piece regarding Florida, Texas, Arizona or California is followed by a whataboutnewyork

[Splits]

1282881298781089793

[baseline bum]

1282881298781089793

Pretty much sums it up

https://twitter.com/Schwinnjessica/status/1282135509217742849

[SnakeBoy]

All we can be sure of is...

Don't believe the numbers

Bipartisan agreement on that.

[Blake]

All we can be sure of is...

Don't believe the numbers

Bipartisan agreement on that.

So do you think the numbers are actually worse or are they better than what's being reported?

[boutons_deux]

How Texas Republicans Politicized the Coronavirus Pandemic

Most, however, urged the Party to press forward.

“I think the biggest optic we need is within our own party,” Randall Dunning, a member of the State Republican Executive Committee, said.

“What we need is to demonstrate courage…. :lol Macho Man !

We are being perceived as pushed around by the media.

We need to stand up for these things.”

The coronavirus, he added, was “one of the most feeble epidemics ever.”

Dunning, who has been known to brag about wearing body armor, is an outspoken party member (https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/popular-conservative-texas-house-candidate-dunning-has-some-republicans-worried-6419383), but

his position was widely supported.

The controversy over the convention was not about safety, he said, it was about politics.

particularly potent in a state like Texas, where

the appeal of strongman politics mixes easily with the come-and-take-it troublemaking of gun-rights circles.

The Web site for the R.P.T. notes (https://www.texasgop.org/overview-and-history/) that

“early Texans lived, loved and died entirely by their own efforts without relying on government to fulfill their needs.

Just like modern Texans, early settlers believed in families, churches and neighbors, not in bureaucracy.

That sense of self-respect and self-reliance is still the envy of the world.” :lol self-congratulatory bullshit myth!

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-texas-republicans-politicized-the-coronavirus-pandemic

These shitbag Repugs, wallowing around in 19th century frontier myths, are why TX is a shithole for non-Repugs, non-whites, non-wealthy

[RandomGuy]

So do you think the numbers are actually worse or are they better than what's being reported?

He believes in magic hurricanes. Or maybe it is unicorns killing people. Like in the bible and shit. Anything but the pandemic, because reasons.

[RandomGuy]

All we can be sure of is...

Don't believe the numbers

Bipartisan agreement on that.

Science says they are likely too low.

Politics says they are likely too high.

That is the partisan difference, stupid motherfucker.

[Blake]

"HOUSTON — Texas reported a new single-day record of new COVID-19 cases Tuesday with 10,745 and 87 deaths, according to the Texas Department of State Health Services.

Tuesday's figure is the third time in seven days that the state has reported at least 10,000 new coronavirus cases.

The state's positivity rate is 16.89%, according to the latest data from DSHS. Houston's is 26.8%, according to the latest data from the Houston Health Department....."

Just another day these days

[boutons_deux]

"don't believe the numbers" is shit flooding the zone.

Saying no to truth is the dickless, infantile power of the negative.

"I have self-flattering power to deny reality"

[hater]

"HOUSTON — Texas reported a new single-day record of new COVID-19 cases Tuesday with 10,745 and 87 deaths, according to the Texas Department of State Health Services.

Tuesday's figure is the third time in seven days that the state has reported at least 10,000 new coronavirus cases.

The state's positivity rate is 16.89%, according to the latest data from DSHS. Houston's is 26.8%, according to the latest data from the Houston Health Department....."

Just another day these days

Just another flu. Lets get the children back to school befor3 they start self immolating en mass, etc

[tholdren]

Just another flu. Lets get the children back to school befor3 they start self immolating en mass, etc

go ask the rest of the world. Ask sweden. Who did not lock down. But please stop gossiping

[RandomGuy]

Not good.
https://i.imgur.com/XWJ5AVv.png

Link for this?

[RandomGuy]

All we can be sure of is...

Don't believe the numbers

Bipartisan agreement on that.

Explain the spike then.

https://i.imgur.com/bMOZpLw.png

Or you know, fucking run away from the data. I have come to expect very little from dishonest evil people like you.

[SnakeBoy]

Or you know, fucking run away from the data. I have come to expect very little from dishonest evil people like you.

Deliberate misinterpretation of cdc data.

Prove me wrong

[tholdren]

Explain the spike then.

https://i.imgur.com/bMOZpLw.png

Or you know, fucking run away from the data. I have come to expect very little from dishonest evil people like you.

beahahahhahahahHha

RandomGuy with the bads per usual. Profanity because his math is terrible

[RandomGuy]

Deliberate misinterpretation of cdc data.

Prove me wrong

Prove it is a deliberate misrepresentation of it.

If it is a misrepresentation of the data, you should be able to say how that is, stupid motherfucker. I have spent years debunking conspiracy bullshit, and it can be done. If you can't do it, that says volumes.

Explain the spike then. You can't hide the corpses, as much as your evil ass might try to.

https://i.imgur.com/bMOZpLw.png

Either you can provide a reasonable alternative of the death data and you are arguing in good faith and honestly, or you cannot, and you are an evil, stupid motherucker.

[RandomGuy]

Deliberate misinterpretation of cdc data.

Prove me wrong

the big giant red flag for any rational person would be that you are on the same side of a debate at Spurtacular. Normal, non-evil rational people would do a double take at that, and might pause to re-examine their assumptions and conclusions.

Not you. You probably think Spurtacular is doing great. :lol

[midnightpulp]

Link for this?

https://covidactnow.org/us/tx?s=696113

[SnakeBoy]

the big giant red flag for any rational person would be that you are on the same side of a debate at Spurtacular. Normal, non-evil rational people would do a double take at that, and might pause to re-examine their assumptions and conclusions.

Not you. You probably think Spurtacular is doing great. :lol

I just think you like to use the word data without ever looking at the actual data or considering how the data was obtained.

[Blake]

Deliberate misinterpretation of cdc data.

Prove me wrong

Guilty until proven innocent. The American way

[ChumpDumper]

Deliberate misinterpretation of cdc data.

Prove me wrong

Explain your conspiracy theory.

Prove yourself right.

[RandomGuy]

I just think you like to use the word data without ever looking at the actual data or considering how the data was obtained.

That doesn't explain the spike in deaths. That is pseudo-intellectual ankle-biting.

You still can't even do a simple fill in the blank. :lol

"That graph misrepresents the data because ________________"

I think you are actively evil for attempting to down play the danger, and that might get someone to take that danger less seriously than they should have.

You are just as fucking stupid as the 9-11 morons going on about hearing someone say "pull it'.

I know more about data, gathering and compiling it than you do. The fucktarded thing is that I think you understand that marked deviations from historical averages is important when looking at investments, but suddenly, when it threatens your beloved Dear Leaders reputation, and your stupid fucking political party's fortunes, you are "duh, whut?" :lol

SnakeDuh.

[RandomGuy]

https://covidactnow.org/us/tx?s=696113

Thank you.

[ChumpDumper]

All I know is Texas Trump supporters on ST lose their shit when anyone reminds them things aren't going terribly well in Texas.

[tholdren]

Prove it is a deliberate misrepresentation of it.

If it is a misrepresentation of the data, you should be able to say how that is, stupid motherfucker. I have spent years debunking conspiracy bullshit, and it can be done. If you can't do it, that says volumes.

Explain the spike then. You can't hide the corpses, as much as your evil ass might try to.

https://i.imgur.com/bMOZpLw.png

Either you can provide a reasonable alternative of the death data and you are arguing in good faith and honestly, or you cannot, and you are an evil, stupid motherucker.

beahahahahhahahahahah explain the spike. Lolololklkkkklkklkll

[tholdren]

All I know is Texas Trump supporters on ST lose their shit when anyone reminds them things aren't going terribly well in Texas.
Ifr less than flu. Pretty great news actually.

[RandomGuy]

Deliberate misinterpretation of cdc data.

Prove me wrong


Fatality counts do not include probable cases

So our state official counts deliberately undercount what is "probable". No conspiracy needed here. Merely people collating data and checking a box. "was it confirmed through testing, No? then "flu", was it confirmed through testing? Yes, then COVID".

Your state health officials are saying that they have undercounted it, by putting "we are not counting probable deaths".

Now fill in the blank:

The graph deliberately misrepresents the CDC data because _______________

[tholdren]

So our state official counts deliberately undercount what is "probable". No conspiracy needed here. Merely people collating data and checking a box. "was it confirmed through testing, No? then "flu", was it confirmed through testing? Yes, then COVID".

Your state health officials are saying that they have undercounted it, by putting "we are not counting probable deaths".

Now fill in the blank:

The graph deliberately misrepresents the CDC data because _______________

Bwahahahaha doesn't understand how deaths are calculated half a year of gossip.

[pgardn]

Prove it is a deliberate misrepresentation of it.

If it is a misrepresentation of the data, you should be able to say how that is, stupid motherfucker. I have spent years debunking conspiracy bullshit, and it can be done. If you can't do it, that says volumes.

Explain the spike then. You can't hide the corpses, as much as your evil ass might try to.

https://i.imgur.com/bMOZpLw.png

Either you can provide a reasonable alternative of the death data and you are arguing in good faith and honestly, or you cannot, and you are an evil, stupid motherucker.

The problem I have is the gray line should just be horizontal, it does not need to show variation because the dates it represents are not shown.
And quite frankly you would not show the dates because one might be tempted to compare something in mid to late may of this year, with the end of 2018 for example (somewhere around there) and that makes no sense.

Otherwise, it makes its point.
A whole bunch of the graphs put up on this site would not make it into publication in the journals I have to look at even though Im not nearly as familiar with epidemiological type graphs.

The real idea here is people can see line trends much better than trends in columns of numbers. Its for a visual species like we are to quickly get an idea of what is going on. But sometimes its not simple to do this. Your really have to be careful. This is a long way from a Cartesian coordinate system and probably drives math teachers absolutely bonkers. But it serves a visual and sometimes even a mathematical purpose.

[Blake]

All I know is Texas Trump supporters on ST lose their shit when anyone reminds them things aren't going terribly well in Texas.

New York tho!

[ChumpDumper]

IfrShow your math.

[tholdren]

The problem I have is the gray line should just be horizontal, it does not need to show variation because the dates it represents are not shown.
And quite frankly you would not show the dates because one might be tempted to compare something in mid to late may of this year, with the end of 2018 for example (somewhere around there) and that makes no sense.

Otherwise, it makes its point.
A whole bunch of the graphs put up on this site would not make it into publication in the journals I have to look at even though Im not nearly as familiar with epidemiological type graphs.

The real idea here is people can see line trends much better than trends in columns of numbers. Its for a visual species like we are to quickly get an idea of what is going on. But sometimes its not simple to do this. Your really have to be careful. This is a long way from a Cartesian coordinate system and probably drives math teachers absolutely bonkers. But it serves a visual and sometimes even a mathematical purpose.

You dont understand math. The gray line cannot be horizontal. Lol

[tholdren]

Lol this graph states only covid causes pneumonia. Lolololololloll

[midnightpulp]

Lol this graph states only covid causes pneumonia. Lolololololloll

Pneumonia deaths dont spike in Texas after spring. What caused this spike in pneumonia deaths?

[ChumpDumper]

Pneumonia deaths dont spike in Texas after spring. What caused this spike in pneumonia deaths?th:lolldren is afraid of you

[tholdren]

Pneumonia deaths dont spike in Texas after spring. What caused this spike in pneumonia deaths?

lololololooloololololololpl


Only covid of course lololololplo

Thats really what you think lolololololplll

[SnakeBoy]

I know more about data, gathering and compiling it than you do.

And yet you are begging me to gather and compile the data for you :lol



I think you are actively evil for attempting to down play the danger, and that might get someone to take that danger less seriously than they should have.


Moral preening from the guy who wishes death upon those who disagree with him. That's rich.

[ChumpDumper]

lololololooloololololololpl


Only covid of course lololololplo

Thats really what you think lolololololplllth:lolldren afraid to say what he thinks caused it

[tholdren]

Lol RandomGuy better at compilation of data. Lololol
Wrong

[RandomGuy]

All I know is Texas Trump supporters on ST lose their shit when anyone reminds them things aren't going terribly well in Texas.

Wait until more people have died in Texas than in muh New York. Texas has a larger population, and even people dying at lower rates will mean we will surpass NY at some point. SnakeDuh will have to shift to "they aren't really dead, they are just sleeping" or something equally stupid.

I think the anti-science party state government is going to have to do a lot of explaining once the ICUs fill up. 91% capacity now. I was sure it would hit 100% about the end of last week, but it looks like I was thankfully wrong. No indications yet that the trend is going to change though, and lots of places, like Hays are full and diverting.

[midnightpulp]

Lol RandomGuy better at compilation of data. Lololol
Wrong

Show your math

[tholdren]

Wait until more people have died in Texas than in muh New York. Texas has a larger population, and even people dying at lower rates will mean we will surpass NY at some point. SnakeDuh will have to shift to "they aren't really dead, they are just sleeping" or something equally stupid.

I think the anti-science party state government is going to have to do a lot of explaining once the ICUs fill up. 91% capacity now. I was sure it would hit 100% about the end of last week, but it looks like I was thankfully wrong. No indications yet that the trend is going to change though, and lots of places, like Hays are full and diverting.

icu have to run at this level. Its maximizing profit since modelers got it so wrong

[clambake]

Doesn’t really matter anymore since the data will be hidden and altered for posterity.

[tholdren]

Doesn’t really matter anymore since the data will be hidden and altered for posterity.

Who cares? The data isn't valid now.

[clambake]

Did you ever show your math?

[pgardn]

You dont understand math. The gray line cannot be horizontal. Lol

yes it can if it’s an average over those dates fucking idiot

[RandomGuy]

And yet you are begging me to gather and compile the data for you :lol



no, I am asking you, vainly, to prove your case, with a simple fill in the blank, which you failed to do, just like Spurtacular does when he is presented with something that requires effort.

You made a statement, a positive assertion.

"you misrepresented CDC data"

Your claim, your burden of proof. That is how it works. You are too stupid and lazy to do that, so you dishonestly ask me to do your work for you, you lazy ass.

Fill in the blank.

"you misrepresented the data because __________________"

[ChumpDumper]

Did you ever show your math?

https://media.giphy.com/media/LOEI8jsNKPmzdJYvhJ/source.gif

[SnakeBoy]

no, I am asking you, vainly, to prove your case, with a simple fill in the blank, which you failed to do, just like Spurtacular does when he is presented with something that requires effort.

You made a statement, a positive assertion.

"you misrepresented CDC data"

Your claim, your burden of proof. That is how it works. You are too stupid and lazy to do that, so you dishonestly ask me to do your work for you, you lazy ass.

Fill in the blank.

"you misrepresented the data because __________________"

Begging

[RandomGuy]

Let's try logic.

All men are mortal.
Aristotle is a man.

Therefore Aristotle is mortal.

-----------------------------

Morons can't back up their assertions.
Snakeboy can't back up his assertion.

Therfore Snakeboy is a moron.

------------------------------------------------

Morons can't show their math.
tholdren can't show his math.

Thefefore tholdren is a moron.

------------------------------------------

Morons can't understand simple graphs
Spurtacular can't understand a simple graph

Therefore Spurtacular is a moron.

[RandomGuy]

Begging

Stupid.
Mother.
Fucker.

Evil and dishonest to the last, just like every other Spurtacluar, Cosmored conspiracy asswipe, smh.

[RandomGuy]

Moral preening from the guy who wishes death upon those who disagree with him. That's rich.

Bit of a strawman.

I wish death on those that would harm others. Fanatically devoted to Trump = harming others.

I'm sure you think you are a good person. If you make arguments that cause harm to other people, you are not a good person. Pretty simple.

You don't care about harming people. I do.

The thing that makes me morally superior to you, is that I am not doing anything to actively harm those who disagree with me.

By making dishonest arguments that downplay a real risk, you are actively promoting harm.

[SnakeBoy]

The thing that makes me morally superior

You only think that because your in the midst of a manic episode

http://bipolarsymptoms.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/bipolar-symptoms.png

There is help for you
https://edrugsearch.com/comprehensive-list-of-bipolar-medication/#:~:text=The%20Available%20Medications%20for%20Bip olar%20Sufferers%201%20Olanzapine.,to%20take%20Ris peridone%20for%20your%20bipolar%20disorder.%20

What’s important is you seek help as soon as possible. You want your moods to get back on track, so you can live a healthier, happier life.

[ChumpDumper]

Anything to avoid the topic. I think SnakeBoy realized he lost his shit over our completely reasonable conversation yesterday and would rather try to shut it down than acknowledge anything discussed.

[SnakeBoy]

Anything to avoid the topic. I think SnakeBoy realized he lost his shit over our completely reasonable conversation yesterday and would rather try to shut it down than acknowledge anything discussed.

Don't believe the numbers, all sides agree.

[ChumpDumper]

Don't believe the numbers, all sides agree.Yep, just trying to shut it down.

[SnakeBoy]

Yep, just trying to shut it down.

Do you believe the numbers?

[ChumpDumper]

Do you believe the numbers?For deaths? Generally speaking, yes. I don't know how you claim the deaths are faked.

If you don't believe the numbers at all, I guess you can shut yourself down.

[RandomGuy]

You only think that because your in the midst of a manic episode

That doesn't, explain the spike, chickenshit. :lol

The magic invisible hurricane you think that hit tTexas while no one was looking. :rollin

https://i.imgur.com/bMOZpLw.png

or maybe you think it is magic bible unicorns.

[RandomGuy]

"Durr dee durr, I'm Snakeboy, and all those thousands of dead people that died from a flu-like illness in the middle of a pandemic were killed by an invisible tornado and forest fire and not the pandemic, that is a pure coincidence."

:rollin

[SnakeBoy]

For deaths? Generally speaking, yes. I don't know how you claim the deaths are faked.

If you don't believe the numbers at all, I guess you can shut yourself down.

I've never claimed anything was faked. I'm glad you have decided that the reported numbers are generally accurate instead of falling for the conspiracy theories.

[ChumpDumper]

I've never claimed anything was faked. I'm glad you have decided that the reported numbers are generally accurate instead of falling for the conspiracy theories.None of us was saying any numbers were faked and none of us claimed any conspiracy.

You were too pissy to notice.

[Blake]

Begging

It's called burden of proof. It's a pretty simple concept. If you can't prove your claim, it gets called bullshit and nobody wants to discuss anything with you.

Kinda like where derp and tholderp are these days

[Blake]

"Durr dee durr, I'm Snakeboy, and all those thousands of dead people that died from a flu-like illness in the middle of a pandemic were killed by an invisible tornado and forest fire and not the pandemic, that is a pure coincidence."

:rollin

He's begging you to prove him wrong.

[tholdren]

For deaths? Generally speaking, yes. I don't know how you claim the deaths are faked.

If you don't believe the numbers at all, I guess you can shut yourself down.

deaths are coming out weeks after death and reported as new deaths. Its not days for a majority.

[ChumpDumper]

deaths are coming out weeks after death and reported as new deaths. Its not days for a majority.And?

[tholdren]

And?

you didn't know that. You also said at the beginning of this that the cdc doesn't report that way, when I told you back then. And then you tried to weasel out of it by saying it didn't matter.

Lolol

And then you say; you are using the data scientifically.


Lolololokokokll

RandomGuy style

[ChumpDumper]

you didn't know thatWrong.

th:lolldren so wrong yet again. Sad.

[SnakeBoy]

This virus is tough, but Texas is tougher

[tholdren]

Wrong.

th:lolldren so wrong yet again. Sad.

Lying again huh?

[ChumpDumper]

This virus is tough, but Texas is tougherCloying but better than "Eat these beans!" tbh.

[ChumpDumper]

Lying again huh?Wrong.

th:lolldren loves being wrong. Sad.

[tholdren]

Wrong.

th:lolldren loves being wrong. Sad.

no you said that deaths being reported on time was not a big deal. It was right after you tried to tell someone it was called the kansas flu. A couple weeks after you said only China had wet markets. When I told you ifr would be like the flu. Which it is less than

[ChumpDumper]

no you said that deaths being reported on time was not a big deal.Wrong.

th:lolldren starting his daily meltdown.

[tholdren]

Wrong.

th:lolldren starting his daily meltdown.

you did. When I told you the cdc would begin counting covid death like alcohol fatality. You said no. And I said yes and deaths will be lagged to continue justifying anti science policy

[ChumpDumper]

you did.Wrong.

th:lolldren ramping up to full meltdown.

[tholdren]

Now that I think back on it the list of ChumpDumper being wrong is extensive. And the times I have been correct is 100 percent of the time.

Sad to be ChumpDumper

[ChumpDumper]

Now that I thinkWrong.

thh:loldren in full meltdown now.

[Blake]

This virus is tough, but Texas is tougher

Texas is New York tough!

[CosmicCowboy]

I believe the fucking numbers. We have really cracked down at the office and to hell with eating out. The grill, pellet smoker, and instapot are getting a workout.

[CosmicCowboy]

Btw, did to go again today for lunch at Chris Madrids. Dang those guys have their shit together.

[DarrinS]

I believe the fucking numbers. We have really cracked down at the office and to hell with eating out. The grill, pellet smoker, and instapot are getting a workout.

I think we need to get to 20% infected, before our curve comes down.

[Blake]

I think we need to get to 20% infected, before our curve comes down.

Based on feels

[midnightpulp]

Record setting day for Texas with 154 reported deaths.

Gossip, tholdren?

Or maybe from/with happened here. 154 Texans died in a brisket eating contest from overeating but all tested positive for Covid.

[ChumpDumper]

Record setting day for Texas with 154 reported deaths.

Gossip, tholdren?

Or maybe from/with happened here. 154 Texans died in a brisket eating contest from overeating but all tested positive for Covid.A BRISKET CONTEST IN 1946!

[midnightpulp]

A BRISKET CONTEST IN 1946!

:lol

[DarrinS]

Based on feels


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZpw3qllNhc

[Blake]

Record setting day for Texas with 154 reported deaths.

Gossip, tholdren?

Or maybe from/with happened here. 154 Texans died in a brisket eating contest from overeating but all tested positive for Covid.

But New York tho

[DarrinS]

But New York tho

Yeah, New York got clobbered.

[Blake]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZpw3qllNhc

Oh neat, a 26 minute YouTube full of feels I won't watch

[Blake]

Yeah, New York got clobbered.

INB4 u

[tholdren]

Record setting day for Texas with 154 reported deaths.

Gossip, tholdren?

Or maybe from/with happened here. 154 Texans died in a brisket eating contest from overeating but all tested positive for Covid.

Go find out when those happened. Or keep gossiping. I bet you choose the latter

[Blake]

Go find out when those happened. Or keep gossiping. I bet you choose the latter

You always choose the latter

[DarrinS]

Oh neat, a 26 minute YouTube full of feels I won't watch

Ok, don't watch.

[Blake]

Ok, don't watch.

Ok, don't get redassed when people say you're full of shit. :tu

[ChumpDumper]

At this point how would we even know if we were at 20%?

[Blake]

At this point how would we even know if we were at 20%?

C'mon why would we even be talking about opening schools back up if we weren't already at 20%?

[DarrinS]

At this point how would we even know if we were at 20%?

Take case counts, multiply by 10, then divide by population.

[ChumpDumper]

Take care counts, multiply by 10, then divide by population.So guess. Sure has worked so far.

[DarrinS]

So guess. Sure has worked so far.

All models do, but testing suggests a ten fold prevalence.

[Blake]

Take case counts, multiply by 10, then divide by population.

K, what about when people start getting positive tests a second time

[ChumpDumper]

suggestsOh.

[tholdren]

K, what about when people start getting positive tests a second time

This happens all the time. And count as new cases

[tholdren]

Image Credit: Yinon Weiss | Twitter: @yinonw

Wednesday, July 15, 2020

Economics Sweden COVID-19 Ludwig von Mises Andrew Cuomo Coronavirus Belgium Anders Tegnell Individual Responsibility Human Action

Why Sweden Succeeded in “Flattening the Curve” and New York Failed

The reason New York failed to "flatten the curve" and Sweden succeeded probably has little to do with lockdowns.



by Jon Miltimore



Coronavirus deaths have slowed to a crawl in Sweden. With the exception of a single death on July 13, no deaths in this nation of 10 million have been reported since July 10.

But the debate over Sweden’s approach to the COVID-19 pandemic, which relied on individual responsibility instead of government coercion to maintain social distancing, is far from over.

Last week, The New York Times labeled Sweden’s approach to the pandemic a “cautionary tale” for the rest of the world, claiming it “yielded a surge of deaths without sparing its economy from damage.”

To be accurate, Sweden has outperformed many nations around the world with its “lighter touch” approach and was one of the few nations in Europe to see its economy grow in the first quarter of 2020.

Meanwhile, Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s top infectious disease expert, continues to defend his nation’s approach to the pandemic.

“I’m looking forward to a more serious evaluation of our work than has been made so far,” Tegnell said in a recent podcast published by Swedish public radio before taking a scheduled vacation. “There is no way of knowing how this ends.”

Sweden’s Actual Pandemic Performance

Sweden has become a global lightning rod, but this has less to do with the results of its policies than the nature of its policies.

While Sweden’s death toll is indeed substantially higher than neighbors such as Finland, Norway, and Denmark, it’s also much lower than several other European neighbors such as Belgium, the United Kingdom, Italy, and Spain.

Indeed, a simple comparison between Belgium and Sweden—nations with rather similar populations—reveals that Belgium suffered far worse than Sweden from the coronavirus.

Comparing the epidemic curve in Belgium (11.5m pop), which locked down early on 17 Mar, and Sweden (10.2m pop), with no lockdown. Chart depicts deaths by date of occurrence, with Sweden per capita adjusted. Total per million: Belgium (844); Sweden (547). pic.twitter.com/W7u5pCQ8MV

— Paul Yowell (@pwyowell) July 11, 2020

The reason Sweden is a “cautionary tale” and Belgium is not is because Belgium followed the script. Early in the pandemic, Belgian officials closed all non-essential business and enforced strict social distancing rules.

All non-emergency workers were told to stay home. Shopping was limited to a single family member. Individuals could leave for medical reasons or to walk a pet or get a brief bit of exercise—so long as social distancing was maintained.

These lockdown protocols, the BBC reported, were strictly enforced by Belgian police using “drones in parks and fines for anyone breaking social distancing rules.”

A More Suitable ‘Cautionary Tale’

Sweden clearly endured the pandemic better than Belgium, which had nearly twice as many COVID-19 deaths despite its economic lockdown.

Yet the Times chose Sweden as its “cautionary tale” because Sweden chose not to institute an economic lockdown. Sweden took such an approach for two reasons. First, as Tegnell has publicly stated, there is little to no scientific evidence that lockdowns work. Second, as evidence today shows, lockdowns come with widespread unintended consequences: mass unemployment, recession, social unrest, psychological deterioration, suicides, and drug overdoses.

Even if Sweden has seen its death toll rise more sharply than Scandinavian neighbors such as Finland and Norway, it’s strange that the Times would go thousands of miles across an ocean and continent to find a “cautionary tale.” A far better cautionary tale can be found right under the Grey Lady’s nose.

A simple comparison between New York and Sweden shows the Empire State has suffered far worse from COVID-19 than the Swedes. Yinon Weiss, an entrepreneur and founder of Rally Point, recently compared Sweden and New York using data from the COVID Tracking Project.

Here’s the good news: You can shut down businesses or keep them open. Close schools or stay in session. Wear masks or not. The virus will make its way through in either case, and if we protect the elderly then deaths will be spared. pic.twitter.com/AVg0Vu8aH2

— Yinon Weiss (@yinonw) July 13, 2020

The first thing one notices about the comparison is that Sweden was able to “flatten the curve,” so to speak. Though the phrase is largely forgotten today, flattening the curve was originally the entire purpose of the lockdowns. To the extent that there was a scientific basis for lockdowns, it was in the idea that they were a temporary measure designed to help hospitals avoid being overwhelmed by sick patients.

Dr Robert Katz, founding director of the Yale‐Griffin Prevention Research Center, observed that by flattening the curve “you don't prevent deaths, you just change the dates.” But a temporary lockdown could at least prevent everyone from getting sick at once, which would be catastrophic.

If flattening the curve was the primary goal of policymakers, Sweden was largely a success. New York, on the other hand, was not, despite widespread closures and strict enforcement of social distancing policies.

The reason New York failed and Sweden succeeded probably has relatively little to do with the fact that bars and restaurants were open in Sweden. Or that New York’s schools were closed while Sweden’s were open. As Weiss explains, the difference probably isn’t related to lockdowns at all. It probably has much more to do with the fact that New York failed to protect the most at-risk populations: the elderly and infirm.

“Here’s the good news: You can shut down businesses or keep them open. Close schools or stay in session. Wear masks or not,” says Weiss, a graduate of Harvard Business School. “The virus will make its way through in either case, and if we protect the elderly then deaths will be spared.”

This is precisely the prescription Dr. John Ioannidis, a Stanford University epidemiologist and one of the most cited scientists in the world, has advocated since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Remember when this was still a thing? pic.twitter.com/HqSQ5uTaFz

— Jon Miltimore (Parler: @Miltimore79) (@miltimore79) July 14, 2020

Like Tegnell, Ioannidis early on expressed doubts about the effectiveness of lockdowns and warned they could produce wide-ranging unintended outcomes.

“One of the bottom lines is that we don’t know how long social distancing measures and lockdowns can be maintained without major consequences to the economy, society, and mental health,” Ioannidis wrote in a STAT article in March. "Unpredictable evolutions may ensue, including financial crisis, unrest, civil strife, war, and a meltdown of the social fabric.”

Sadly, many of the adverse consequences Ioannidis predicted have since come to pass, as he has acknowledged.

Is Sweden Truly a ‘Cautionary Tale’?

Tegnell and Swedish leaders have mostly stood by their lighter touch approach, although there is a recognition that they, too, could have more effectively protected at-risk populations.

“We must admit that the part that deals with elderly care, in terms of the spread of infection, has not worked. It is obvious. We have too many elderly people who have passed away,” Sweden’s Prime Minister Stefan Löfven said in June.

Yet it’s a mistake to label Sweden’s approach a failure. As noted above, Sweden is being criticized less because of the results of their public health policies and more because of the nature of them.

By embracing a much more market-based approach to the pandemic in lieu of a centrally planned one, Sweden is undermining the narrative that millions and millions of people would have died without lockdowns, as modelers predicted.

Without Sweden and a few similar outliers, it would be far easier for central planners to say, Sure, lockdowns were harsh and destructive. But we had no choice.

In the wake of the most destructive pandemic in a century, there will be considerable discussion as to whether the lockdowns, which stand to trigger a global depression in addition to other psychological and social costs, were truly necessary.

In a sense, the disagreement over the pandemic largely resembles a much larger friction in society: should individuals be left free to pursue their own interests and weigh risks themselves or should they be guided, coerced, and protected by planners who want to do all this for them.

As Ludwig Von Mises noted long ago, modern social conflict is largely a struggle over who gets to design the world, individuals or authorities. Mises saw few things more dangerous than central planners seeking to supplant the plans of individuals with plans of their own, which they see as a preeminent good.

It was partly for this reason Mises saw market economies as superior to command economies.

“Whatever people do in the market economy, is the execution of their own plans. In this sense every human action means planning,” Mises wrote in Socialism: An Economic and Sociological Analysis. “What those calling themselves planners advocate is not the substitution of planned action for letting things go. It is the substitution of the planner’s own plan for the plans of his fellow-men. The planner is a potential dictator who wants to deprive all other people of the power to plan and act according to their own plans. He aims at one thing only: the exclusive absolute pre-eminence of his own plan.”

When Mises speaks of the “pre-eminence of his own plan,” it’s hard not to think of New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, who in March sounded downright indignant when a reporter asked about nursing homes objecting to his plan of prohibiting them from screening for COVID-19.

“They don’t have the right to object,” Cuomo answered. “That is the rule, and that is the regulation, and they have to comply with it.”

Cuomo clearly saw his central plan as superior to that of individuals acting within the marketplace.

The policy of forcing nursing homes to take COVID carrying patients, which was adopted by numerous US states with high virus death tolls, is a stark contrast to Sweden’s market-based approach that trusted individuals to plan for themselves.

“Our measures are all based on individuals taking responsibility, and that is … an important part of the Swedish model,” Hakan Samuelsson, the CEO of Volvo Cars, observed in April.

Sweden’s approach of encouraging social distancing by giving responsibility to individuals may very well explain why the Swedes fared so much better than New York, where authorities disempowered individual actors and prevented nursing homes from taking sensible precautions.

It’s almost absurd to look at New York’s pandemic plan and declare it superior to Sweden’s, yet many in the intellectual class will continue to hammer away at Sweden while ignoring the catastrophic numbers in New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, and other states.

[DarrinS]

K, what about when people start getting positive tests a second time

You're a bit of a drama queen. Outliers aren't the norm.

[ChumpDumper]

Image Credit: Yinon Weiss | Twitter: @yinonw

Wednesday, July 15, 2020

Economics Sweden COVID-19 Ludwig von Mises Andrew Cuomo Coronavirus Belgium Anders Tegnell Individual Responsibility Human Action

Why Sweden Succeeded in “Flattening the Curve” and New York Failed

The reason New York failed to "flatten the curve" and Sweden succeeded probably has little to do with lockdowns.



by Jon Miltimore



Coronavirus deaths have slowed to a crawl in Sweden. With the exception of a single death on July 13, no deaths in this nation of 10 million have been reported since July 10.

But the debate over Sweden’s approach to the COVID-19 pandemic, which relied on individual responsibility instead of government coercion to maintain social distancing, is far from over.

Last week, The New York Times labeled Sweden’s approach to the pandemic a “cautionary tale” for the rest of the world, claiming it “yielded a surge of deaths without sparing its economy from damage.”

To be accurate, Sweden has outperformed many nations around the world with its “lighter touch” approach and was one of the few nations in Europe to see its economy grow in the first quarter of 2020.

Meanwhile, Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s top infectious disease expert, continues to defend his nation’s approach to the pandemic.

“I’m looking forward to a more serious evaluation of our work than has been made so far,” Tegnell said in a recent podcast published by Swedish public radio before taking a scheduled vacation. “There is no way of knowing how this ends.”

Sweden’s Actual Pandemic Performance

Sweden has become a global lightning rod, but this has less to do with the results of its policies than the nature of its policies.

While Sweden’s death toll is indeed substantially higher than neighbors such as Finland, Norway, and Denmark, it’s also much lower than several other European neighbors such as Belgium, the United Kingdom, Italy, and Spain.

Indeed, a simple comparison between Belgium and Sweden—nations with rather similar populations—reveals that Belgium suffered far worse than Sweden from the coronavirus.

Comparing the epidemic curve in Belgium (11.5m pop), which locked down early on 17 Mar, and Sweden (10.2m pop), with no lockdown. Chart depicts deaths by date of occurrence, with Sweden per capita adjusted. Total per million: Belgium (844); Sweden (547). pic.twitter.com/W7u5pCQ8MV

— Paul Yowell (@pwyowell) July 11, 2020

The reason Sweden is a “cautionary tale” and Belgium is not is because Belgium followed the script. Early in the pandemic, Belgian officials closed all non-essential business and enforced strict social distancing rules.

All non-emergency workers were told to stay home. Shopping was limited to a single family member. Individuals could leave for medical reasons or to walk a pet or get a brief bit of exercise—so long as social distancing was maintained.

These lockdown protocols, the BBC reported, were strictly enforced by Belgian police using “drones in parks and fines for anyone breaking social distancing rules.”

A More Suitable ‘Cautionary Tale’

Sweden clearly endured the pandemic better than Belgium, which had nearly twice as many COVID-19 deaths despite its economic lockdown.

Yet the Times chose Sweden as its “cautionary tale” because Sweden chose not to institute an economic lockdown. Sweden took such an approach for two reasons. First, as Tegnell has publicly stated, there is little to no scientific evidence that lockdowns work. Second, as evidence today shows, lockdowns come with widespread unintended consequences: mass unemployment, recession, social unrest, psychological deterioration, suicides, and drug overdoses.

Even if Sweden has seen its death toll rise more sharply than Scandinavian neighbors such as Finland and Norway, it’s strange that the Times would go thousands of miles across an ocean and continent to find a “cautionary tale.” A far better cautionary tale can be found right under the Grey Lady’s nose.

A simple comparison between New York and Sweden shows the Empire State has suffered far worse from COVID-19 than the Swedes. Yinon Weiss, an entrepreneur and founder of Rally Point, recently compared Sweden and New York using data from the COVID Tracking Project.

Here’s the good news: You can shut down businesses or keep them open. Close schools or stay in session. Wear masks or not. The virus will make its way through in either case, and if we protect the elderly then deaths will be spared. pic.twitter.com/AVg0Vu8aH2

— Yinon Weiss (@yinonw) July 13, 2020

The first thing one notices about the comparison is that Sweden was able to “flatten the curve,” so to speak. Though the phrase is largely forgotten today, flattening the curve was originally the entire purpose of the lockdowns. To the extent that there was a scientific basis for lockdowns, it was in the idea that they were a temporary measure designed to help hospitals avoid being overwhelmed by sick patients.

Dr Robert Katz, founding director of the Yale‐Griffin Prevention Research Center, observed that by flattening the curve “you don't prevent deaths, you just change the dates.” But a temporary lockdown could at least prevent everyone from getting sick at once, which would be catastrophic.

If flattening the curve was the primary goal of policymakers, Sweden was largely a success. New York, on the other hand, was not, despite widespread closures and strict enforcement of social distancing policies.

The reason New York failed and Sweden succeeded probably has relatively little to do with the fact that bars and restaurants were open in Sweden. Or that New York’s schools were closed while Sweden’s were open. As Weiss explains, the difference probably isn’t related to lockdowns at all. It probably has much more to do with the fact that New York failed to protect the most at-risk populations: the elderly and infirm.

“Here’s the good news: You can shut down businesses or keep them open. Close schools or stay in session. Wear masks or not,” says Weiss, a graduate of Harvard Business School. “The virus will make its way through in either case, and if we protect the elderly then deaths will be spared.”

This is precisely the prescription Dr. John Ioannidis, a Stanford University epidemiologist and one of the most cited scientists in the world, has advocated since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Remember when this was still a thing? pic.twitter.com/HqSQ5uTaFz

— Jon Miltimore (Parler: @Miltimore79) (@miltimore79) July 14, 2020

Like Tegnell, Ioannidis early on expressed doubts about the effectiveness of lockdowns and warned they could produce wide-ranging unintended outcomes.

“One of the bottom lines is that we don’t know how long social distancing measures and lockdowns can be maintained without major consequences to the economy, society, and mental health,” Ioannidis wrote in a STAT article in March. "Unpredictable evolutions may ensue, including financial crisis, unrest, civil strife, war, and a meltdown of the social fabric.”

Sadly, many of the adverse consequences Ioannidis predicted have since come to pass, as he has acknowledged.

Is Sweden Truly a ‘Cautionary Tale’?

Tegnell and Swedish leaders have mostly stood by their lighter touch approach, although there is a recognition that they, too, could have more effectively protected at-risk populations.

“We must admit that the part that deals with elderly care, in terms of the spread of infection, has not worked. It is obvious. We have too many elderly people who have passed away,” Sweden’s Prime Minister Stefan Löfven said in June.

Yet it’s a mistake to label Sweden’s approach a failure. As noted above, Sweden is being criticized less because of the results of their public health policies and more because of the nature of them.

By embracing a much more market-based approach to the pandemic in lieu of a centrally planned one, Sweden is undermining the narrative that millions and millions of people would have died without lockdowns, as modelers predicted.

Without Sweden and a few similar outliers, it would be far easier for central planners to say, Sure, lockdowns were harsh and destructive. But we had no choice.

In the wake of the most destructive pandemic in a century, there will be considerable discussion as to whether the lockdowns, which stand to trigger a global depression in addition to other psychological and social costs, were truly necessary.

In a sense, the disagreement over the pandemic largely resembles a much larger friction in society: should individuals be left free to pursue their own interests and weigh risks themselves or should they be guided, coerced, and protected by planners who want to do all this for them.

As Ludwig Von Mises noted long ago, modern social conflict is largely a struggle over who gets to design the world, individuals or authorities. Mises saw few things more dangerous than central planners seeking to supplant the plans of individuals with plans of their own, which they see as a preeminent good.

It was partly for this reason Mises saw market economies as superior to command economies.

“Whatever people do in the market economy, is the execution of their own plans. In this sense every human action means planning,” Mises wrote in Socialism: An Economic and Sociological Analysis. “What those calling themselves planners advocate is not the substitution of planned action for letting things go. It is the substitution of the planner’s own plan for the plans of his fellow-men. The planner is a potential dictator who wants to deprive all other people of the power to plan and act according to their own plans. He aims at one thing only: the exclusive absolute pre-eminence of his own plan.”

When Mises speaks of the “pre-eminence of his own plan,” it’s hard not to think of New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, who in March sounded downright indignant when a reporter asked about nursing homes objecting to his plan of prohibiting them from screening for COVID-19.

“They don’t have the right to object,” Cuomo answered. “That is the rule, and that is the regulation, and they have to comply with it.”

Cuomo clearly saw his central plan as superior to that of individuals acting within the marketplace.

The policy of forcing nursing homes to take COVID carrying patients, which was adopted by numerous US states with high virus death tolls, is a stark contrast to Sweden’s market-based approach that trusted individuals to plan for themselves.

“Our measures are all based on individuals taking responsibility, and that is … an important part of the Swedish model,” Hakan Samuelsson, the CEO of Volvo Cars, observed in April.

Sweden’s approach of encouraging social distancing by giving responsibility to individuals may very well explain why the Swedes fared so much better than New York, where authorities disempowered individual actors and prevented nursing homes from taking sensible precautions.

It’s almost absurd to look at New York’s pandemic plan and declare it superior to Sweden’s, yet many in the intellectual class will continue to hammer away at Sweden while ignoring the catastrophic numbers in New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, and other states.Bylines: The Washington Times, MSN.com, The Washington Examiner, The Daily Caller, The Federalist, the Epoch Times. :lmao

[vy65]

Here’s an Atlantic article that’s the support to Darrin’s YouTube

Tl;dr virus’ affect on all populations is not equal or consistent. Yet most herd immunity models assume that it is. Adjusting for that, you can get models that show herd immunity achieved anywhere between 20-45%

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/614035/

[midnightpulp]

Here’s an Atlantic article that’s the support to Darrin’s YouTube

Tl;dr virus’ affect on all populations is not equal or consistent. Yet most herd immunity models assume that it is. Adjusting for that, you can get models that show herd immunity achieved anywhere between 20-45%

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/614035/

Yep. Epidemiologists have been saying that we can control the herd immunity threshold through the typical mitigation strategies, but what might be 20% for a well behaved, well organized, first world country that follows the science will probably be much higher for a country filled with spoiled children who will pull guns on other people who suggest they wear a mask.

[midnightpulp]

Bylines: The Washington Times, MSN.com, The Washington Examiner, The Daily Caller, The Federalist, the Epoch Times. :lmao

These idiots are just blowing in the wind now. The data is in, that's all that matters. No amount of words can change this:

https://i.imgur.com/IvmXT1m.png
tholdren's claim is that these countries don't count deaths the same. Lol. Then he needs to sh:lolw his math proving so.

[ChumpDumper]

These idiots are just blowing in the wind now. The data is in, that's all that matters. No amount of words can change this:

https://i.imgur.com/IvmXT1m.png
tholdren's claim is that these countries don't count deaths the same. Lol. Then he needs to sh:lolw his math proving so.To my knowledge Goebbels never wrote about a pandemic but as far as denying reality and scapegoating internal enemies go, Team Trump is doing him proud.

[vy65]

Yep. Epidemiologists have been saying that we can control the herd immunity threshold through the typical mitigation strategies, but what might be 20% for a well behaved, well organized, first world country that follows the science will probably be much higher for a country filled with spoiled children who will pull guns on other people who suggest they wear a mask.

To think, we could start having nice things again in the near term if everyone just wore a mask ...

[Blake]

You're a bit of a drama queen. Outliers aren't the norm.

Explain in your own feels what the "norm" is, DrunkenS

[Blake]

This is good.

"Local public health officials will be able to keep Texas schools closed for in-person instruction this fall without risking state education funding, a Texas Education Agency spokesperson confirmed to The Texas Tribune on Wednesday...."

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/15/texas-schools-closed-public-health/

[RandomGuy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZpw3qllNhc

Zdogg is one of my favs.

[RandomGuy]

Bylines: The Washington Times, MSN.com, The Washington Examiner, The Daily Caller, The Federalist, the Epoch Times. :lmao

Mises :lol

Mises is the cousin in the attic drooling on himself in the family of economists.

[RandomGuy]

Here’s an Atlantic article that’s the support to Darrin’s YouTube

Tl;dr virus’ affect on all populations is not equal or consistent. Yet most herd immunity models assume that it is. Adjusting for that, you can get models that show herd immunity achieved anywhere between 20-45%

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/614035/

Eyup. There are some decent studies that suggest herd immunity can be fairly low.

Assuming:

1.you have vaccines...

and

2.people are disciplined enough to distance

and

3. wear masks,

and

4. herd immunity is possible with this disease, which is unknown and uncertain at this point.

#1 is certain, and #4 will be known eventually. two and three... I do not see happening because of the toddler in chief.

[Blake]

"In another blow to ‘herd immunity,’ study shows decline of COVID-19 antibodies after a few weeks.."

https://www.foxtv.com/news/in-another-blow-to-herd-immunity-study-shows-decline-of-covid-19-antibodies-after-a-few-weeks

[DarrinS]

"In another blow to ‘herd immunity,’ study shows decline of COVID-19 antibodies after a few weeks.."

https://www.foxtv.com/news/in-another-blow-to-herd-immunity-study-shows-decline-of-covid-19-antibodies-after-a-few-weeks

T-cells, Debbie Downer

[Blake]

"....we waste critical time with this pointless discussion, because the facts are already quite clear: herd immunity will likely never be achieved for Covid-19 or any other coronavirus. We know this thanks to new research on the development and decline of Covid antibodies and from a wealth of epidemiological evidence on coronaviruses as a whole......

......The body's T cell response may also be an important factor for immunity, but it won't be the answer. T cells help our immune system by killing off infected cells and activating other immune cells to fight off the infection. We know people make robust and sometimes long-lasting T cell responses to cold causing coronaviruses.

However important the T cell response may be in clearing infection, it is clear that it does not prevent reinfection, which occurs regularly with the more common coronaviruses......"

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/13/opinions/herd-immunity-covid-19-uncomfortable-reality-haseltine/index.html

Editor's Note: (William Haseltine, PhD, is chair and president of the global health think tank, ACCESS Health International. He is author of numerous books, including the recently released, "A Family Guide to COVID-19: Questions and Answers for Parents, Grandparents and Children."

[RandomGuy]

This virus is tough, but Texas is tougher

That doesn't, explain the spike, chickenshit. :lol

The magic invisible hurricane you think that hit tTexas while no one was looking. :rollin

https://i.imgur.com/bMOZpLw.png

or maybe you think it is magic bible unicorns.

"Durr dee durr, I'm Snakeboy, and all those thousands of dead people that died from a flu-like illness in the middle of a pandemic were killed by an invisible tornado and forest fire and not the pandemic, that is a pure coincidence, because that would make Republicans look bad."

:rollin

[Blake]

"mid-June, the number of patients in the Covid unit at DHR’s McAllen hospital jumped from five to 88 in four days, physicians said. The hospital now has 191 Covid patients and is rushing to add 170 more beds by next month as it converts space in existing buildings and brings in more staff. The county overall has over 800 Covid patients in hospitals and is trying to find support for an emergency temporary hospital, officials said.

Dr. Melendez, 60, the son of a doctor, grew up in McAllen. A former Army surgeon who served in Iraq, he was appointed the county’s top health director in the early 2000s. He coordinates the health response between the county’s 22 cities and all local hospitals. He also treats his own patients, including those diagnosed with Covid, even though ongoing problems from a tumor on his heart put him at high risk if he caught the virus.

Frustration set in as Dr. Melendez watched the state open more quickly than he thought prudent. As control over restrictions aimed at limiting the spread of infection was wrested from local entities, he saw residents go back to happily socializing. Although he considers himself a Republican, like Mr. Abbott, he believes the jump in numbers came from disregarding strategies that were working. Mr. Abbott has said he is following the advice of medical professionals, and has since rolled back the state’s reopening.

When he caught Covid last month, Dr. Melendez was fortunate to have a mild case, marked by extreme tiredness and some shortness of breath, he said. But the ongoing exhaustion and stress from the steep death toll are taking a toll. “I cry every day,” he said...."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-texas-a-doctor-fights-the-surge-and-gets-covid-19-i-cry-every-day-11594891801

[SnakeBoy]

The magic invisible hurricane you think that hit tTexas while no one was looking. :rollin


lol you're the one saying there was an invisible hurricane. I'm saying there wasn't.

[RandomGuy]

"mid-June, the number of patients in the Covid unit at DHR’s McAllen hospital jumped from five to 88 in four days, physicians said. The hospital now has 191 Covid patients and is rushing to add 170 more beds by next month as it converts space in existing buildings and brings in more staff. The county overall has over 800 Covid patients in hospitals and is trying to find support for an emergency temporary hospital, officials said.

Dr. Melendez, 60, the son of a doctor, grew up in McAllen. A former Army surgeon who served in Iraq, he was appointed the county’s top health director in the early 2000s. He coordinates the health response between the county’s 22 cities and all local hospitals. He also treats his own patients, including those diagnosed with Covid, even though ongoing problems from a tumor on his heart put him at high risk if he caught the virus.

Frustration set in as Dr. Melendez watched the state open more quickly than he thought prudent. As control over restrictions aimed at limiting the spread of infection was wrested from local entities, he saw residents go back to happily socializing. Although he considers himself a Republican, like Mr. Abbott, he believes the jump in numbers came from disregarding strategies that were working. Mr. Abbott has said he is following the advice of medical professionals, and has since rolled back the state’s reopening.

When he caught Covid last month, Dr. Melendez was fortunate to have a mild case, marked by extreme tiredness and some shortness of breath, he said. But the ongoing exhaustion and stress from the steep death toll are taking a toll. “I cry every day,” he said...."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-texas-a-doctor-fights-the-surge-and-gets-covid-19-i-cry-every-day-11594891801

These are the people have have to deal with Republican policy failures. Fucktard anti-science idiot Republicans pushing for fucktarded anti-science policies, and it is the doctors and nurses who the same fucktards say are "heroes" that have to deal with those failures. :bang:bang:bang

[RandomGuy]

lol you're the one saying there was an invisible hurricane. I'm saying there wasn't.

Explain the spike. I don't know what your pea-brain thinks is causing these deaths. Please go ahead, moron. wow the class with your geenyus.

https://i.imgur.com/bMOZpLw.png

[TSA]

"mid-June, the number of patients in the Covid unit at DHR’s McAllen hospital jumped from five to 88 in four days, physicians said. The hospital now has 191 Covid patients and is rushing to add 170 more beds by next month as it converts space in existing buildings and brings in more staff. The county overall has over 800 Covid patients in hospitals and is trying to find support for an emergency temporary hospital, officials said.

Dr. Melendez, 60, the son of a doctor, grew up in McAllen. A former Army surgeon who served in Iraq, he was appointed the county’s top health director in the early 2000s. He coordinates the health response between the county’s 22 cities and all local hospitals. He also treats his own patients, including those diagnosed with Covid, even though ongoing problems from a tumor on his heart put him at high risk if he caught the virus.

Frustration set in as Dr. Melendez watched the state open more quickly than he thought prudent. As control over restrictions aimed at limiting the spread of infection was wrested from local entities, he saw residents go back to happily socializing. Although he considers himself a Republican, like Mr. Abbott, he believes the jump in numbers came from disregarding strategies that were working. Mr. Abbott has said he is following the advice of medical professionals, and has since rolled back the state’s reopening.

When he caught Covid last month, Dr. Melendez was fortunate to have a mild case, marked by extreme tiredness and some shortness of breath, he said. But the ongoing exhaustion and stress from the steep death toll are taking a toll. “I cry every day,” he said...."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-texas-a-doctor-fights-the-surge-and-gets-covid-19-i-cry-every-day-11594891801

Border town spikes are coming from US citizens/green card holders crossing from Mexico to work in the produce fields or seek better medical care in the US. Same spikes are happening in California and Arizona border towns.

[midnightpulp]

Border town spikes are coming from US citizens/green card holders crossing from Mexico to work in the produce fields or seek better medical care in the US. Same spikes are happening in California and Arizona border towns.

Hmmm, presumably the produce fields are most viable in the Spring (and farming is essential, so these migrant workers were working the fields then). Why didn't these border town spikes occur then? AZ, TX, and CA were really crushing the curve in the Spring. Seems like another excuse to try and claim reopening wasn't the central reason for the new spikes.

[Blake]

Border town spikes are coming from US citizens/green card holders crossing from Mexico to work in the produce fields or seek better medical care in the US. Same spikes are happening in California and Arizona border towns.

They were managing until Abbott opened everything up a and told cities they can't enforce mask requirements.

[TSA]

Hmmm, presumably the produce fields are most viable in the Spring (and farming is essential, so these migrant workers were working the fields then). Why didn't these border town spikes occur then? AZ, TX, and CA were really crushing the curve in the Spring. Seems like another excuse to try and claim reopening wasn't the central reason for the new spikes.


Border town spikes are coming from US citizens/green card holders crossing from Mexico to work in the produce fields or seek better medical care in the US. Same spikes are happening in California and Arizona border towns.

[RandomGuy]

https://dshs.texas.gov/coronavirus/TexasCOVID19DailyCountyFatalityCountData.xlsx

Ten day moving average fatality rate of just confirmed (excluding probable) fatalities:

6-15, -------- 20 per day.
7-1,---------- 30 per day
7-15---------- 80 per day.

This is what the fucktarded Republican state government is reporting as its official number, hiding the "probable" cases that morons like Snakeboy think are due to magic tornadoes killing people by the thousands without anyone noticing. :bang

[RandomGuy]

Border town spikes are coming from US citizens/green card holders crossing from Mexico to work in the produce fields or seek better medical care in the US. Same spikes are happening in California and Arizona border towns.

Maybe you want to explain the spike. Are we under-reporting fatalities here in Texas?

https://i.imgur.com/bMOZpLw.png

[RandomGuy]

Ramp to 225 deaths/day by end July, continuing to escalate to a peak of around 450/day by latter part of August, plateauing there for who knows how long, at least several weeks. ~10k Texans dead by end-August.

7-15 is 110, ten day moving average 80, with that doubled from where it was when you posted this. Doubling every six days or so, you are on track to be right.

[ChumpDumper]

Border town spikes are coming from US citizens/green card holders crossing from Mexico to work in the produce fields or seek better medical care in the US. Same spikes are happening in California and Arizona border towns.

Prove it.

[midnightpulp]

...

Why did you reemphasize? I understand that. But it seems it's framed as they are the reason for the spikes, not the wholesale reopening of these states. So they weren't working the fields in spring, when these towns didn't have any spikes?

This is the likely scenario. They were crossing to and fro just the same in April, but since bars and such were shutdown, they were forced to shelter like everyone else. Once we reopened, they got the virus like everyone else who goes to bars, churches, casinos, whatever. To clarify, I'm saying they didn't create the surge, they are simply a part of the surge. They could've contracted the virus from a college kid at a bar. The way the conservative media will certainly spin this is that these towns were controlling their outbreak just fine until the dirty Messicans triggered a surge. I think that's bullshit. Reopenings triggered the surge.

[Blake]

Border town spikes are coming from US citizens/green card holders crossing from Mexico to work in the produce fields or seek better medical care in the US. Same spikes are happening in California and Arizona border towns.

Why would US citizens be coming from Mexico to work in the produce fields

[TSA]

Why did you reemphasize? I understand that. But it seems it's framed as they are the reason for the spikes, not the wholesale reopening of these states. So they weren't working the fields in spring, when these towns didn't have any spikes?

This is the likely scenario. They were crossing to and fro just the same in April, but since bars and such were shutdown, they were forced to shelter like everyone else. Once we reopened, they got the virus like everyone else who goes to bars, churches, casinos, whatever. To clarify, I'm saying they didn't create the surge, they are simply a part of the surge. They could've contracted the virus from a college kid at a bar. The way the conservative media will certainly spin this is that these towns were controlling their outbreak just fine until the dirty Messicans triggered a surge. I think that's bullshit. Reopenings triggered the surge.

I was strictly speaking to border towns. I'll try and find the heat map I saw of border town cases across California, Arizona, and Texas. Yuma was insane.

COVID-19 Overwhelms Border ICUs

Hospital officials say most of the infected patients are U.S. citizens or legal residents who live in, or recently traveled to, Mexico and came to the U.S. for care.

CHULA VISTA, Calif. — Even as most California hospitals have avoided an incapacitating surge in coronavirus patients, some facilities near the Mexican border have been overwhelmed. They include El Centro Regional Medical Center in Imperial County and Scripps Mercy Hospital Chula Vista in San Diego County, which link the spike in COVID-19 patients to their communities’ cross-border lifestyle.

Some U.S. citizens and legal residents who live in Mexico are crossing the border from Tijuana and Mexicali into the U.S. for treatment. Dr. Juan Tovar, an emergency physician and chief operations executive for Scripps Mercy Hospital Chula Vista, said 48% of COVID-positive patients who visited the emergency room between May 24 and May 30 said they had recently traveled to Mexico. That figure jumped to 60% between May 31 and June 2. The hospital is about 10 miles from the San Ysidro Port of Entry, the busiest land border crossing in the Western Hemisphere.

Only about 5% of COVID-19 patients reported they’d recently been to Mexico at Scripps’ three other emergency rooms farther north, he said.

About two hours east, El Centro Regional Medical Center was so overwhelmed by COVID-19 patients it had to divert some to health care facilities in San Diego, National City and elsewhere. There have been more than 2,025 confirmed cases in Imperial County, which has the highest COVID-19 hospitalization rate in the state, said Andrea Bowers, special projects coordinator for the county health department.

“We know that our community has family on both sides of the border, so we’re relating the uptick to Mother’s Day weekend,” said Suzanne Martinez, assistant chief nursing officer at the medical center. “That means more risk as people travel back and forth over the border.”

https://khn.org/news/covid-19-overwhelms-border-icus/

[Blake]

Why did you reemphasize? I understand that. But it seems it's framed as they are the reason for the spikes, not the wholesale reopening of these states. So they weren't working the fields in spring, when these towns didn't have any spikes?

This is the likely scenario. They were crossing to and fro just the same in April, but since bars and such were shutdown, they were forced to shelter like everyone else. Once we reopened, they got the virus like everyone else who goes to bars, churches, casinos, whatever. To clarify, I'm saying they didn't create the surge, they are simply a part of the surge. They could've contracted the virus from a college kid at a bar. The way the conservative media will certainly spin this is that these towns were controlling their outbreak just fine until the dirty Messicans triggered a surge. I think that's bullshit. Reopenings triggered the surge.

Anything to continue to justify Trump's wall rhetoric

[Blake]

I was strictly speaking to border towns. I'll try and find the heat map I saw of border town cases across California, Arizona, and Texas. Yuma was insane.

COVID-19 Overwhelms Border ICUs

Hospital officials say most of the infected patients are U.S. citizens or legal residents who live in, or recently traveled to, Mexico and came to the U.S. for care.

CHULA VISTA, Calif. — Even as most California hospitals have avoided an incapacitating surge in coronavirus patients, some facilities near the Mexican border have been overwhelmed. They include El Centro Regional Medical Center in Imperial County and Scripps Mercy Hospital Chula Vista in San Diego County, which link the spike in COVID-19 patients to their communities’ cross-border lifestyle.

Some U.S. citizens and legal residents who live in Mexico are crossing the border from Tijuana and Mexicali into the U.S. for treatment. Dr. Juan Tovar, an emergency physician and chief operations executive for Scripps Mercy Hospital Chula Vista, said 48% of COVID-positive patients who visited the emergency room between May 24 and May 30 said they had recently traveled to Mexico. That figure jumped to 60% between May 31 and June 2. The hospital is about 10 miles from the San Ysidro Port of Entry, the busiest land border crossing in the Western Hemisphere.

Only about 5% of COVID-19 patients reported they’d recently been to Mexico at Scripps’ three other emergency rooms farther north, he said.

About two hours east, El Centro Regional Medical Center was so overwhelmed by COVID-19 patients it had to divert some to health care facilities in San Diego, National City and elsewhere. There have been more than 2,025 confirmed cases in Imperial County, which has the highest COVID-19 hospitalization rate in the state, said Andrea Bowers, special projects coordinator for the county health department.

“We know that our community has family on both sides of the border, so we’re relating the uptick to Mother’s Day weekend,” said Suzanne Martinez, assistant chief nursing officer at the medical center. “That means more risk as people travel back and forth over the border.”

https://khn.org/news/covid-19-overwhelms-border-icus/

Lol June 5th.

[TSA]

Lol June 5th.

?

[RandomGuy]

Why did you reemphasize? I understand that. But it seems it's framed as they are the reason for the spikes, not the wholesale reopening of these states. So they weren't working the fields in spring, when these towns didn't have any spikes?

This is the likely scenario. They were crossing to and fro just the same in April, but since bars and such were shutdown, they were forced to shelter like everyone else. Once we reopened, they got the virus like everyone else who goes to bars, churches, casinos, whatever. To clarify, I'm saying they didn't create the surge, they are simply a part of the surge. They could've contracted the virus from a college kid at a bar. The way the conservative media will certainly spin this is that these towns were controlling their outbreak just fine until the dirty Messicans triggered a surge. I think that's bullshit. Reopenings triggered the surge.

https://files.explosm.net/comics/Rob/notracist2.png

We're not racist.. but it was the mexicans. :rolleye

[RandomGuy]

?

You find anything on infection rates for high schoolers yet? I want at least 5 scientific papers.

Then you can tell me it is safe to reopen highschools too.

[Blake]

?

Oh right, California.

So what do you want to do about it?

[TSA]

Oh right, California.

So what do you want to do about it?

Seriously, what was lol June 5th about?

You posted an article about McCallen and I posted info to expand and help explain the situation happening in border towns. Other than shutting travel across the border down there isn’t much to do about it as these are US citizens or green card holders.

[TSA]

You find anything on infection rates for high schoolers yet? I want at least 5 scientific papers.

Then you can tell me it is safe to reopen highschools too.

I’ve shown you enough and will keep telling you it’s not only safe but necessary to open schools. You’re the one who needs to do more research, I’m not the one living with a terrified wife who refuses to do her job while ignoring science.

[Blake]

Seriously, what was lol June 5th about?

You posted an article about McCallen and I posted info to expand and help explain the situation happening in border towns. Other than shutting travel across the border down there isn’t much to do about it as these are US citizens or green card holders.

Because we're in July.

Well, the data points to reopening being the main problem in border towns much moreso than open borders where US citizens go back and forth bringing the covid with them.

But if we do close the Mexico border then following that logic, we might as well close all interstate travel as well. I'm sure New York doesn't need any Texans rolling through right now.

[Blake]

I’ve shown you enough and will keep telling you it’s not only safe but necessary to open schools. You’re the one who needs to do more research, I’m not the one living with a terrified wife who refuses to do her job while ignoring science.

Lol no you haven't. But if you're good with the flimsy info you've given then that's all that really matters

[baseline bum]

I’ve shown you enough and will keep telling you it’s not only safe but necessary to open schools. You’re the one who needs to do more research, I’m not the one living with a terrified wife who refuses to do her job while ignoring science.

Amazing how this shit spreads at daycares and summer camps but being in a school changes everything.

[Blake]

Amazing how this shit spreads at daycares and summer camps but being in a school changes everything.

BECAUSE SWEDEN

[ChumpDumper]

As shitty as their initial response to COVID was, France had this shit ready to go in May:

https://www.sheknows.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/french-schools-reopen.jpg

And their 7 day moving average of new cases started out around 1250 when schools reopened Texas is at almost eight times that with less than half the population.

I appreciate the arguments for reopening schools but I'm not going to pretend it's gonna be anything but a shitshow here.

[TSA]

Because we're in July.

Well, the data points to reopening being the main problem in border towns much moreso than open borders where US citizens go back and forth bringing the covid with them.

But if we do close the Mexico border then following that logic, we might as well close all interstate travel as well. I'm sure New York doesn't need any Texans rolling through right now.New York already had mandatory quarantine on anyone traveling in from Texas.

[TSA]

Lol no you haven't. But if you're good with the flimsy info you've given then that's all that really matters

:lol flimsy info

Kids Rarely Transmit Covid-19, Say UVM Docs in Top Journal

A commentary published in the journal Pediatrics, the official peer-reviewed journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics, concludes that children infrequently transmit Covid-19 to each other or to adults and that many schools, provided they follow appropriate social distancing guidelines and take into account rates of transmission in their community, can and should reopen in the fall.

The authors, Benjamin Lee, M.D. and William V. Raszka, Jr., M.D., are both pediatric infectious disease specialists on the faculty of the University of Vermont’s Larner College of Medicine. Dr. Raszka is an associate editor of Pediatrics.

The authors of the commentary, titled “COVID-19 Transmission and Children: The Child Is Not to Blame,” base their conclusions on a new study published in the current issue of Pediatrics, “COVID-19 in Children and the Dynamics of Infection in Families,” and four other recent studies that examine Covid-19 transmission by and among children.

In the new Pediatrics study, Klara M. Posfay-Barbe, M.D., a faculty member at University of Geneva’s medical school, and her colleagues studied the households of 39 Swiss children infected with Covid-19. Contract tracing revealed that in only three (8%) was a child the suspected index case, with symptom onset preceding illness in adult household contacts.

In a recent study in China, researchers’ contact tracing demonstrated that of the 68 children with Covid-19 admitted to Qingdao Women's and Children's Hospital from January 20 to February 27, 2020, 96% were household contacts of previously infected adults. In another study of Chinese children, nine of 10 children admitted to several provincial hospitals outside Wuhan contracted Covid-19 from an adult, with only one possible child-to-child transmission, based on the timing of disease onset.

In a French study, a boy with Covid-19 exposed over 80 classmates at three schools to the disease. None contracted it. Transmission of other respiratory diseases, including influenza transmission, was common at the schools.

In a study in New South Wales, nine infected students and nine staff across 15 schools exposed a total of 735 students and 128 staff to Covid-19. Only two secondary infections resulted, one transmitted by an adult to a child.

“The data are striking,” said Dr. Raszka. “The key takeaway is that children are not driving the pandemic. After six months, we have a wealth of accumulating data showing that children are less likely to become infected and seem less infectious; it is congregating adults who aren’t following safety protocols who are responsible for driving the upward curve.”

Rising cases among adults and children in Texas childcare facilities, which have seen 894 Covid-19 cases among staff members and 441 among children in 883 child care facilities across the state, have the potential to be misinterpreted, Dr. Raszka said. He has not studied the details of the outbreak.

“There is widespread transmission of Covid-19 in Texas today, with many adults congregating without observing social distancing or wearing masks,” he said. “While we don’t yet know the dynamics of the outbreak, it is unlikely that infants and young children in daycare are driving the surge. Based on the evidence, it’s more plausible that adults are passing the infection to the children in the vast majority of cases.”

Additional support for the notion that children are not significant vectors of the disease comes from mathematical modeling, the authors say. Models show that community-wide social distancing and widespread adoption of facial cloth coverings are far better strategies for curtailing disease spread, and that closing schools adds little. The fact that schools have reopened in many Western European countries and in Japan without seeing a rise in community transmissions bears out the accuracy of the modeling.

Reopening schools in a safe manner this fall is important for the healthy development of children, the authors say. “By doing so, we could minimize the potentially profound adverse social, developmental, and health costs that our children will continue to suffer until an effective treatment or vaccine can be developed and distributed, or failing that, until we reach herd immunity,” the paper concludes.

https://www.uvm.edu/uvmnews/news/kids-rarely-transmit-covid-19-say-uvm-docs-top-journal

[Blake]

New York already had mandatory quarantine on anyone traveling in from Texas.

Right but not all fifty states are socially distancing.

[ChumpDumper]

Rising cases among adults and children in Texas childcare facilities, which have seen 894 Covid-19 cases among staff members and 441 among children in 883 child care facilities across the state, have the potential to be misinterpreted, Dr. Raszka said. He has not studied the details of the outbreak.

Maybe he should study that outbreak.

[baseline bum]

Rising cases among adults and children in Texas childcare facilities, which have seen 894 Covid-19 cases among staff members and 441 among children in 883 child care facilities across the state, have the potential to be misinterpreted, Dr. Raszka said. He has not studied the details of the outbreak.

Maybe he should study that outbreak.

If they just put them at desks and gave them busywork. God damn if Cuomo would have just sent those nursing home patients into schools instead.

[tholdren]

You find anything on infection rates for high schoolers yet? I want at least 5 scientific papers.

Then you can tell me it is safe to reopen highschools too.

You said texas wouldn't have any hospitals left by 7/12/2020


You need 2 more weeks?

[tholdren]

Rising cases among adults and children in Texas childcare facilities, which have seen 894 Covid-19 cases among staff members and 441 among children in 883 child care facilities across the state, have the potential to be misinterpreted, Dr. Raszka said. He has not studied the details of the outbreak.

Maybe he should study that outbreak.

Lololololol study asymptomatic persons for...... symptoms. Lololoolokl


Ifr less than flu.

Show how to compute or you dont know and you are just gossiping.


Lolooolol

[ChumpDumper]

IfrShow your math or you don't know and you're just gossiping.

[tholdren]

Lololololol study asymptomatic persons for...... symptoms. Lololoolokl


Ifr less than flu.

Show how to compute or you dont know and you are just gossiping.


Lolooolol

Lololol ChumpDumper all he can do is parrot. I'm flattered.

[ChumpDumper]

Lololol ChumpDumper all he can do is parrot. I'm flattered.Wrong. You can't show your math. You only gossip.

[Blake]

:lol flimsy info

Kids Rarely Transmit Covid-19, Say UVM Docs in Top Journal

A commentary published in the journal Pediatrics, the official peer-reviewed journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics, concludes that children infrequently transmit Covid-19 to each other or to adults and that many schools, provided they follow appropriate social distancing guidelines and take into account rates of transmission in their community, can and should reopen in the fall.

The authors, Benjamin Lee, M.D. and William V. Raszka, Jr., M.D., are both pediatric infectious disease specialists on the faculty of the University of Vermont’s Larner College of Medicine. Dr. Raszka is an associate editor of Pediatrics.

The authors of the commentary, titled “COVID-19 Transmission and Children: The Child Is Not to Blame,” base their conclusions on a new study published in the current issue of Pediatrics, “COVID-19 in Children and the Dynamics of Infection in Families,” and four other recent studies that examine Covid-19 transmission by and among children.

In the new Pediatrics study, Klara M. Posfay-Barbe, M.D., a faculty member at University of Geneva’s medical school, and her colleagues studied the households of 39 Swiss children infected with Covid-19. Contract tracing revealed that in only three (8%) was a child the suspected index case, with symptom onset preceding illness in adult household contacts.

In a recent study in China, researchers’ contact tracing demonstrated that of the 68 children with Covid-19 admitted to Qingdao Women's and Children's Hospital from January 20 to February 27, 2020, 96% were household contacts of previously infected adults. In another study of Chinese children, nine of 10 children admitted to several provincial hospitals outside Wuhan contracted Covid-19 from an adult, with only one possible child-to-child transmission, based on the timing of disease onset.

In a French study, a boy with Covid-19 exposed over 80 classmates at three schools to the disease. None contracted it. Transmission of other respiratory diseases, including influenza transmission, was common at the schools.

In a study in New South Wales, nine infected students and nine staff across 15 schools exposed a total of 735 students and 128 staff to Covid-19. Only two secondary infections resulted, one transmitted by an adult to a child.

“The data are striking,” said Dr. Raszka. “The key takeaway is that children are not driving the pandemic. After six months, we have a wealth of accumulating data showing that children are less likely to become infected and seem less infectious; it is congregating adults who aren’t following safety protocols who are responsible for driving the upward curve.”

Rising cases among adults and children in Texas childcare facilities, which have seen 894 Covid-19 cases among staff members and 441 among children in 883 child care facilities across the state, have the potential to be misinterpreted, Dr. Raszka said. He has not studied the details of the outbreak.

“There is widespread transmission of Covid-19 in Texas today, with many adults congregating without observing social distancing or wearing masks,” he said. “While we don’t yet know the dynamics of the outbreak, it is unlikely that infants and young children in daycare are driving the surge. Based on the evidence, it’s more plausible that adults are passing the infection to the children in the vast majority of cases.”

Additional support for the notion that children are not significant vectors of the disease comes from mathematical modeling, the authors say. Models show that community-wide social distancing and widespread adoption of facial cloth coverings are far better strategies for curtailing disease spread, and that closing schools adds little. The fact that schools have reopened in many Western European countries and in Japan without seeing a rise in community transmissions bears out the accuracy of the modeling.

Reopening schools in a safe manner this fall is important for the healthy development of children, the authors say. “By doing so, we could minimize the potentially profound adverse social, developmental, and health costs that our children will continue to suffer until an effective treatment or vaccine can be developed and distributed, or failing that, until we reach herd immunity,” the paper concludes.

https://www.uvm.edu/uvmnews/news/kids-rarely-transmit-covid-19-say-uvm-docs-top-journal

Disingenuous tsa never wants to discuss the bolded part.



Just curious, what does the conspiracy nut side of tsa think of a school in bad financial shape pushing it's own research saying it's okay to go to school?

https://www.wcax.com/content/news/UVM-faculty-and-students-to-protest-potential-cuts--570463871.html

[TSA]

Disingenuous tsa never wants to discuss the bolded part.



Just curious, what does the conspiracy nut side of tsa think of a school in bad financial shape pushing it's own research saying it's okay to go to school?

https://www.wcax.com/content/news/UVM-faculty-and-students-to-protest-potential-cuts--570463871.html

Disingenuous Blake never wants to discuss what immediately follows the bolded part.

“There is widespread transmission of Covid-19 in Texas today, with many adults congregating without observing social distancing or wearing masks,” he said. “While we don’t yet know the dynamics of the outbreak, it is unlikely that infants and young children in daycare are driving the surge. Based on the evidence, it’s more plausible that adults are passing the infection to the children in the vast majority of cases.”

And again Blake being disingenuous...neither of the pediatric infectious disease specialists even mentioned opening up colleges let alone their own campus and UVM's financial situation isn't unique.

[Blake]

Disingenuous Blake never wants to discuss what immediately follows the bolded part.

“There is widespread transmission of Covid-19 in Texas today, with many adults congregating without observing social distancing or wearing masks,” he said. “While we don’t yet know the dynamics of the outbreak, it is unlikely that infants and young children in daycare are driving the surge. Based on the evidence, it’s more plausible that adults are passing the infection to the children in the vast majority of cases.”

And again Blake being disingenuous...neither of the pediatric infectious disease specialists even mentioned opening up colleges let alone their own campus and UVM's financial situation isn't unique.

I read it just fine. Either you don't or you're disingenuous, take your pick.

[RandomGuy]

I’ve shown you enough and will keep telling you it’s not only safe but necessary to open schools. You’re the one who needs to do more research, I’m not the one living with a terrified wife who refuses to do her job while ignoring science.

That does not look like a study on infection rates in high schoolers.

You showed me a ton of studies on children under 10, which also showed that infection rates in teenagers mirorred that of the general population.

Are high schools safe to open too?

I asked you for the Trump administration plan for that as well.

There is no plan is there?

[Blake]

That does not look like a study on infection rates in high schoolers.

You showed me a ton of studies on children under 10, which also showed that infection rates in teenagers mirorred that of the general population.

Are high schools safe to open too?

I asked you for the Trump administration plan for that as well.

There is no plan is there?

YES BECAUSE SWEDEN /TEXT WALL

[RandomGuy]

:lol flimsy info

Kids Rarely Transmit Covid-19, Say UVM Docs in Top Journal

A commentary published in the journal Pediatrics, the official peer-reviewed journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics, concludes that children infrequently transmit Covid-19 to each other or to adults and that many schools, provided they follow appropriate social distancing guidelines and take into account rates of transmission in their community, can and should reopen in the fall.

The authors, Benjamin Lee, M.D. and William V. Raszka, Jr., M.D., are both pediatric infectious disease specialists on the faculty of the University of Vermont’s Larner College of Medicine. Dr. Raszka is an associate editor of Pediatrics.

The authors of the commentary, titled “COVID-19 Transmission and Children: The Child Is Not to Blame,” base their conclusions on a new study published in the current issue of Pediatrics, “COVID-19 in Children and the Dynamics of Infection in Families,” and four other recent studies that examine Covid-19 transmission by and among children.

In the new Pediatrics study, Klara M. Posfay-Barbe, M.D., a faculty member at University of Geneva’s medical school, and her colleagues studied the households of 39 Swiss children infected with Covid-19. Contract tracing revealed that in only three (8%) was a child the suspected index case, with symptom onset preceding illness in adult household contacts.

In a recent study in China, researchers’ contact tracing demonstrated that of the 68 children with Covid-19 admitted to Qingdao Women's and Children's Hospital from January 20 to February 27, 2020, 96% were household contacts of previously infected adults. In another study of Chinese children, nine of 10 children admitted to several provincial hospitals outside Wuhan contracted Covid-19 from an adult, with only one possible child-to-child transmission, based on the timing of disease onset.

In a French study, a boy with Covid-19 exposed over 80 classmates at three schools to the disease. None contracted it. Transmission of other respiratory diseases, including influenza transmission, was common at the schools.

In a study in New South Wales, nine infected students and nine staff across 15 schools exposed a total of 735 students and 128 staff to Covid-19. Only two secondary infections resulted, one transmitted by an adult to a child.

“The data are striking,” said Dr. Raszka. “The key takeaway is that children are not driving the pandemic. After six months, we have a wealth of accumulating data showing that children are less likely to become infected and seem less infectious; it is congregating adults who aren’t following safety protocols who are responsible for driving the upward curve.”

Rising cases among adults and children in Texas childcare facilities, which have seen 894 Covid-19 cases among staff members and 441 among children in 883 child care facilities across the state, have the potential to be misinterpreted, Dr. Raszka said. He has not studied the details of the outbreak.

“There is widespread transmission of Covid-19 in Texas today, with many adults congregating without observing social distancing or wearing masks,” he said. “While we don’t yet know the dynamics of the outbreak, it is unlikely that infants and young children in daycare are driving the surge. Based on the evidence, it’s more plausible that adults are passing the infection to the children in the vast majority of cases.”

Additional support for the notion that children are not significant vectors of the disease comes from mathematical modeling, the authors say. Models show that community-wide social distancing and widespread adoption of facial cloth coverings are far better strategies for curtailing disease spread, and that closing schools adds little. The fact that schools have reopened in many Western European countries and in Japan without seeing a rise in community transmissions bears out the accuracy of the modeling.

Reopening schools in a safe manner this fall is important for the healthy development of children, the authors say. “By doing so, we could minimize the potentially profound adverse social, developmental, and health costs that our children will continue to suffer until an effective treatment or vaccine can be developed and distributed, or failing that, until we reach herd immunity,” the paper concludes.

https://www.uvm.edu/uvmnews/news/kids-rarely-transmit-covid-19-say-uvm-docs-top-journal

Those studies are all about "children" ten and under.

What about the tens of millions of teenagers?

[RandomGuy]

Disingenuous Blake never wants to discuss what immediately follows the bolded part.

“There is widespread transmission of Covid-19 in Texas today, with many adults congregating without observing social distancing or wearing masks,” he said. “While we don’t yet know the dynamics of the outbreak, it is unlikely that infants and young children in daycare are driving the surge. Based on the evidence, it’s more plausible that adults are passing the infection to the children in the vast majority of cases.”

And again Blake being disingenuous...neither of the pediatric infectious disease specialists even mentioned opening up colleges let alone their own campus and UVM's financial situation isn't unique.

You said "schools" are safe to reopen, but only showed data for schools for children 10 and under.

57,000,000 students in grades k-12.

10 years old and under is 6/13ths of that population, or less than half.

Your own studies admit that teenagers infect others at rates that approach that of adults.

5/13 of that population are teenagers. 38% of 57,000,000 is 21,923,000

I guess in Trumpworld, 21,923,000 children are not important? The 13 year old child that Trump raped with Epstein certainly doesn't bother you.

So what you reall meant was "less than half of schools should be safe to open, let's open them all"? :lol

Once again your Dear Leader has made you defend an untenable garbage position. Boot licking is a full time job these days.

[Blake]

BUT SWEDEN THO

[TSA]

You said "schools" are safe to reopen, but only showed data for schools for children 10 and under.

57,000,000 students in grades k-12.

10 years old and under is 6/13ths of that population, or less than half.

Your own studies admit that teenagers infect others at rates that approach that of adults.

5/13 of that population are teenagers. 38% of 57,000,000 is 21,923,000

I guess in Trumpworld, 21,923,000 children are not important? The 13 year old child that Trump raped with Epstein certainly doesn't bother you.

So what you reall meant was "less than half of schools should be safe to open, let's open them all"? :lol

Once again your Dear Leader has made you defend an untenable garbage position. Boot licking is a full time job these days.

High school kids can wear masks effectively, unlike younger children. You were okay with high school kids protesting in mass for George Floyd while wearing masks. If you aren’t okay with them attending school in masks either you’re a hypocrite or you don’t believe mask work. And if your wife doesn’t want to teach with a mask on maybe she should find something new.

[TSA]

Those studies are all about "children" ten and under.

What about the tens of millions of teenagers?

Addressed. Now what are your thoughts on the young kids being allowed back in school?

[ChumpDumper]

Addressed.Was it?

Part of the new Israeli outbreak was a high school they had to shut down.

[pgardn]

High school kids can wear masks effectively, unlike younger children. You were okay with high school kids protesting in mass for George Floyd while wearing masks. If you aren’t okay with them attending school in masks either you’re a hypocrite or you don’t believe mask work. And if your wife doesn’t want to teach with a mask on maybe she should find something new.

Teachers are now front line for the economy.
get the kids back with the teachers and the parents off to work.
when the teachers go down like the nurses and doctors in hospitals, the Young virile and viral studley substitutes like sputracular and TGY Will save the day

thinking of how outstanding it will be to have these two teaching our future generation

[ChumpDumper]

Teachers are now front line for the economy.TSA barking out marching orders from the golf course.

[baseline bum]

High school kids can wear masks effectively, unlike younger children. You were okay with high school kids protesting in mass for George Floyd while wearing masks. If you aren’t okay with them attending school in masks either you’re a hypocrite or you don’t believe mask work. And if your wife doesn’t want to teach with a mask on maybe she should find something new.

Are you fucking retarded? Masks don't stop transmission if you're cooped up for eight hours packed tightly with 35 other people in a room. The most important thing is limiting exposure through not spending a lot of time indoors close to people from outside your household.

[pgardn]

Are you fucking retarded? Masks don't stop transmission if you're cooped up for eight hours packed tightly with 35 other people in a room. The most important thing is limiting exposure through not spending a lot of time indoors close to people from outside your household.

we can have a bunch of little Covid parties under the guise of school

let’s test herd immunity again

[Blake]

TSA barking out marching orders from the golf course.

Hydroxychloroquine? Check
Blame Mexico? Check
Open schools? Check
Blame BLM protests? Check
Find something new per Ivanka? Check

[Blake]

And if your wife doesn’t want to teach with a mask on maybe she should find something new.

And tsa confirms fucking idiot status

[baseline bum]

And tsa confirms fucking idiot status

Yeah fuck RandomGuy if he's not willing to sacrifice his wife for Trump's re-election campaign. We should all fall on our swords for our poor mistreated Dear Leader.

[DarrinS]

I'm fine with not reopening schools, but that's easy for me. I've already been working from home for years and I have older kids who are self sufficient.

I'm pretty sure school closures disproportionately affect poorer families.

Oh well.

[pgardn]

I'm fine with not reopening schools, but that's easy for me. I've already been working from home for years and I have older kids who are self sufficient.

I'm pretty sure school closures disproportionately affect poorer families.

Oh well.

Absolutely poor families have a much more difficult time.
same thing is happening with healthcare right now, the death rate comparison Is awful
Healthcare and schooling are still huge challenges for this country and its ever-growing difference in wealth

The orange guy does have a plan on schooling however, very unlike healthcare where he nothing

Schools will open. guidelines not clear.
He has given up on the virus, except for hoping it disappears and possibly thwarting The flow of information.

[baseline bum]

Absolutely poor families have a much more difficult time.
same thing is happening with healthcare right now, the death rate comparison Is awful
Healthcare and schooling are still huge challenges for this country and its ever-growing difference in wealth

The orange guy does have a plan on schooling however, very unlike healthcare where he nothing

Schools will open. guidelines not clear.
He has given up on the virus, except for hoping it disappears and possibly thwarting The flow of information.

Trump's COVID plan is hope people get numb to the deaths.

[KobesAchilles]

High school kids can wear masks effectively, unlike younger children. You were okay with high school kids protesting in mass for George Floyd while wearing masks. If you aren’t okay with them attending school in masks either you’re a hypocrite or you don’t believe mask work. And if your wife doesn’t want to teach with a mask on maybe she should find something new.
Shit man who gives a fuck about being a hypocrite. Like that shit matters :lol Everyone on earth is a fucking hypocrite. So what? Nobody in fucking Lubbock was protesting BLM so they should have a higher risk to getting Corona?

Anyways since you don't know shit about shit you should just say so unless you want to be a hypocrite :lol Unemployment is like 1928 style but yeah lets just all get new jobs. The shit you say. By state law, there is a cap on he amount of kids you can have in a classroom. BUT since the state doesn't actually have the funding to support their own fucking law (nice one TX) and it's easy to get a waiver where you don't have to follow that law. Classroom aren't that big. The classes have 30-35 kids (when I subbed I once had 70 kids in one fucking classroom) in a small ass room. Students don't listen. They just don't. They're going to take off their mask. They're going to make jokes about Corona. They're going to cough on teachers they don't like. In some fantasy world, kids just listen and are amazing, but they're not. And it's not just his wife homie. Thousands of teachers signed petitions. Where are you going to get the people to replace them if they just do as you say and get rid of those who feel uncomfortable being in a small classroom with 100 students a day. HISD had over 850 openings for teachers just last week :lol

[ElNono]

Border town spikes are coming from US citizens/green card holders crossing from Mexico to work in the produce fields or seek better medical care in the US. Same spikes are happening in California and Arizona border towns.

I don't have hard data, but this sounds suspect for a number of reasons. If you're a green card holders/US citizens you certainly are doing better than working in the produce fields, and all the Mexican's border towns are doing better with COVID than the US border towns.

Disclaimer: I do have family on the wife side in the RGV. They're Texans, they live in the US. They largely don't do all the shit they need to do to protect themselves and others, like wearing masks, etc.. yes, boomers.

[boutons_deux]

Texas governor vows ‘there is no shutdown coming’ despite surge in coronavirus cases

Abbott said last week (https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/10/greg-abbott-shutdown-texas-mask-order/) that if the spread of the virus didn’t slow that “the next step would have to be a lockdown.”

But in a television interview Thursday he said that there have been rumors of such a move, and stressed that they were not true.

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/07/texas-governor-vows-there-is-no-shutdown-coming-despite-surge-in-coronavirus-cases/

[TSA]

I don't have hard data, but this sounds suspect for a number of reasons. If you're a green card holders/US citizens you certainly are doing better than working in the produce fields, and all the Mexican's border towns are doing better with COVID than the US border towns.

Disclaimer: I do have family on the wife side in the RGV. They're Texans, they live in the US. They largely don't do all the shit they need to do to protect themselves and others, like wearing masks, etc.. yes, boomers.

Mexican border towns are doing better because no one is going to Mexican border towns to seek better treatment.

https://khn.org/news/covid-19-overwhelms-border-icus/

[RandomGuy]

High school kids can wear masks effectively, unlike younger children. You were okay with high school kids protesting in mass for George Floyd while wearing masks. If you aren’t okay with them attending school in masks either you’re a hypocrite or you don’t believe mask work. And if your wife doesn’t want to teach with a mask on maybe she should find something new.

That is not a study saying that the tens of millions of adolescents will not transmit or get sick from the virus, bootlick.

High schoolers will absolutely not wear masks. My wife observed them firsthand. I really wasn't ok with the protests, because I knew it would lead to a spike, but neither am I ok with police brutality, liar.

:lol "my wife" is something you will never get to say, truthfully. I find that... sad. The day I take any advice from you will be a cold day in non-existent hell.

so much failure...

[tholdren]

That is not a study saying that the tens of millions of adolescents will not transmit or get sick from the virus, bootlick.

High schoolers will absolutely not wear masks. My wife observed them firsthand. I really wasn't ok with the protests, because I knew it would lead to a spike, but neither am I ok with police brutality, liar.

:lol "my wife" is something you will never get to say, truthfully. I find that... sad. The day I take any advice from you will be a cold day in non-existent hell.

so much failure...
Speculation. On top of that 20 and under.... ifr lower than half the flu

[TSA]

That is not a study saying that the tens of millions of adolescents will not transmit or get sick from the virus, bootlick.

High schoolers will absolutely not wear masks. My wife observed them firsthand. I really wasn't ok with the protests, because I knew it would lead to a spike, but neither am I ok with police brutality, liar.

:lol "my wife" is something you will never get to say, truthfully. I find that... sad. The day I take any advice from you will be a cold day in non-existent hell.

so much failure...

I'm married dipshit :lol

Point me to a study showing teenagers are risky vectors of transmission for the virus. 13-17 year olds. Time for you to actually put some work in. And don't even try with the teenagers in Israel or Australia as it's been reported mask were not required at either.

Your wife is not only a terrified science denier but she sounds like a teacher who's students have no respect for her. I'm literally watching high school kids on the news right now in Poway, CA and every single one of them is wearing a mask.

[tholdren]

I'm married dipshit :lol

Point me to a study showing teenagers are risky vectors of transmission for the virus. 13-17 year olds. Time for you to actually put some work in. And don't even try with the teenagers in Israel or Australia as it's been reported mask were not required at either.

Your wife is not only a terrified science denier but she sounds like a teacher who's students have no respect for her. I'm literally watching high school kids on the news right now in Poway, CA and every single one of them is wearing a mask.

There is no data in the world that shows risk over the flu for under 20.

[Blake]

I'm married dipshit :lol

Point me to a study showing teenagers are risky vectors of transmission for the virus. 13-17 year olds. Time for you to actually put some work in. And don't even try with the teenagers in Israel or Australia as it's been reported mask were not required at either.

Your wife is not only a terrified science denier but she sounds like a teacher who's students have no respect for her. I'm literally watching high school kids on the news right now in Poway, CA and every single one of them is wearing a mask.

Lol "science denier"

Teachers lives don't matter

You're a disingenuous idiot

[tholdren]

Lol "science denier"

Teachers lives don't matter

You're a disingenuous idiot

So you are trying to argue by melting down and namecalling. Typical

[baseline bum]

I'm married dipshit :lol

Point me to a study showing teenagers are risky vectors of transmission for the virus. 13-17 year olds. Time for you to actually put some work in. And don't even try with the teenagers in Israel or Australia as it's been reported mask were not required at either.

Your wife is not only a terrified science denier but she sounds like a teacher who's students have no respect for her. I'm literally watching high school kids on the news right now in Poway, CA and every single one of them is wearing a mask.

LOL you think she should risk her life for Trump's re-election campaign.

[RandomGuy]

lol you're the one saying there was an invisible hurricane. I'm saying there wasn't.

https://i.imgur.com/bMOZpLw.png

No, you are the one saying this is a "mischaracterization of the data", but somehow can't say how it is a mischaracterization.

Explain the spike.

Because you say this, but all I hear in my head as I read is this:

"Durr dee durr, I'm Snakeboy, and all those thousands of dead people that died from a flu-like illness in the middle of a pandemic were killed by an invisible tornado and forest fire or something not the pandemic, that is a pure coincidence, because that would make Republicans look bad."

[tholdren]

https://i.imgur.com/bMOZpLw.png

No, you are the one saying this is a "mischaracterization of the data", but somehow can't say how it is a mischaracterization.

Explain the spike.

Because you say this, but all I hear in my head as I read is this:

"Durr dee durr, I'm Snakeboy, and all those thousands of dead people that died from a flu-like illness in the middle of a pandemic were killed by an invisible tornado and forest fire or something not the pandemic, that is a pure coincidence, because that would make Republicans look bad."

How about tx not being overcapacity and low ifr? Not commenting?

[midnightpulp]

How about tx not being overcapacity and low ifr? Not commenting?

Show your math.

[Blake]

So you are trying to argue by melting down and namecalling. Typical

What no flurry of F5 lols today?

[boutons_deux]

Abbott will be forced to shutdown TX,

he will claim angelic innocence,

while blaming the people who elected him.

[midnightpulp]

Abbott will be forced to shutdown TX,

he will claim angelic innocence,

while blaming the people who elected him.

Hopefully he'll do the right thing :tu

Essential businesses ONLY. No bars, churches, indoor dining, nightclubs, and hair salons operated by selfish dipshits like Shelly Luther

[RandomGuy]

Your wife is not only a terrified science denier but she sounds like a teacher who's students have no respect for her. I'm literally watching high school kids on the news right now in Poway, CA and every single one of them is wearing a mask.

Stupid motherfucker, the science you yourself posted shows that adolescents contract and transmit the virus at rates that approach that of adults.

Feel free to post any science about how adolescents are "not vectors", as I have repeatedly asked your disingenuous, lying ass.

White House: ‘Science Should Not Stand in the Way’ of School Openings

Feel free to call the white house "science deniers" as well, stupid motherfucker. We all know you won't, because it is really hard to lick someones boots when you are calling them out for denying science.

[RandomGuy]

Show your math.

To be fair:

I did say we would be over capacity by now. I overestimated how fast it would spread. As noted we are on track to need the surge capacity, because there are hospitals that have been overwhelmed and are at 100%.

If the positive case numbers continue to climb that will not get magically better, how ever many "L"s and "O"s he wants to manically peck out to post in things I will never respond to.

[RandomGuy]

Hopefully he'll do the right thing :tu

Essential businesses ONLY. No bars, churches, indoor dining, nightclubs, and hair salons operated by selfish dipshits like Shelly Luther

Hopefully. I will, however, not be suprised if he doesn't.

[tholdren]

To be fair:

I did say we would be over capacity by now. I overestimated how fast it would spread. As noted we are on track to need the surge capacity, because there are hospitals that have been overwhelmed and are at 100%.

If the positive case numbers continue to climb that will not get magically better, how ever many "L"s and "O"s he wants to manically peck out to post in things I will never respond to.

positive cases doesn't mean anything other than positive cases.

[midnightpulp]

positive cases doesn't mean anything other than positive cases.

No, they mean more sickness. Why are you okay with people getting sick with a novel virus we don't understand that well?

[TimDunkem]

No, they mean more sickness. Why are you okay with people getting sick with a novel virus we don't understand that well?

Just the flu tho.

[baseline bum]

Hopefully he'll do the right thing :tu

Essential businesses ONLY. No bars, churches, indoor dining, nightclubs, and hair salons operated by selfish dipshits like Shelly Luther

Honestly, I think a shutdown is just a waste of time when there is no federal strategy whatsoever other than hope voters get immune to the massive death counts. If we had a responsible adult in the White House I'd be all for a couple of months national shutdown to slow this virus to the point we could use contact tracing to drastically slow spread like the first world nations have done, but we're a banana republic shithole and all another shutdown would do is fast-track all the economic pain without doing shit to actually get anything under control. Trump accomplished absolutely nothing from the April shutdown. Just let the bodies pile up in Texas, we get what we voted for.

[tholdren]

No, they mean more sickness. Why are you okay with people getting sick with a novel virus we don't understand that well?
Because over 95 percent will have nothing. Just like the flu. Some will get sick just like the flu. Some will die just like the flu. Its not okay. It's just life.

[midnightpulp]

Honestly, I think a shutdown is just a waste of time when there is no federal strategy whatsoever other than hope voters get immune to the massive death counts. If we had a responsible adult in the White House I'd be all for a couple of months national shutdown to slow this virus to the point we could use contact tracing to drastically slow spread like the first world nations have done, but we're a banana republic shithole and all another shutdown would do is fast-track all the economic pain without doing shit to actually get anything under control. Trump accomplished absolutely nothing from the April shutdown. Just let the bodies pile up in Texas, we get what we voted for.

You see this story about him sending the Feds into Portland? Disgusting. I'm sure the self-proclaimed "libertarians" on here have no problem, though.