2025 NBA Draft

[BacktoBasics]

I’d still be a bit surprised if they keep these picks. Barring a top 4 entry. I think they’ll trade out of this draft for picks down the road they can parlay into a player this offseason. I can’t see any teams wanting pic 8 or 9. Future picks would likely carry more trade value.

[Ice009]

When is the draft lottery?


I’d still be a bit surprised if they keep these picks. Barring a top 4 entry. I think they’ll trade out of this draft for picks down the road they can parlay into a player this offseason. I can’t see any teams wanting pic 8 or 9. Future picks would likely carry more trade value.

That's a pretty interesting scenario and I wouldn't mind that if they can get a player that can help a lot more now. I'm still hoping to get into that top 4, though, and maybe another miracle with the number 1, but really I don't want to be greedy and would be happy with top 4.
I feel the Spurs are also one of the teams that haven't outright tanked and have played hard most games, which is another thing I am happy about. I still feel the Spurs played hard in 1996-97 season and maybe the basketball gods got us TD.

[Mr. Body]

I’d still be a bit surprised if they keep these picks. Barring a top 4 entry. I think they’ll trade out of this draft for picks down the road they can parlay into a player this offseason. I can’t see any teams wanting pic 8 or 9. Future picks would likely carry more trade value.

You're saying that no one will want the picks but the Spurs will still trade them for later picks?

Also, that they were able to trade a 8 pick last year but they wouldn't be able to this year?

[heyheymymy]

lol Spurs fans are going to be furious when SA trades the higher value pick away but hopefully if so it's for a win now return we're all happy with. I could see that happening and then getting Carter Bryant or Fleming with ATL pick.

[spurraider21]

lol Spurs fans are going to be furious when SA trades the higher value pick away but hopefully if so it's for a win now return we're all happy with. I could see that happening and then getting Carter Bryant or Fleming with ATL pick.
if we walk away with Fleming i promise i wont complain

[heyheymymy]

Yeah there is a lot to like in the say 10-20 range, maybe 12-25ish. I still like Fleming as a jumbo Harrison Barnes and he is the exact body and play type to fit alongside Wemby imho.

[exstatic]

lol Spurs fans are going to be furious when SA trades the higher value pick away but hopefully if so it's for a win now return we're all happy with. I could see that happening and then getting Carter Bryant or Fleming with ATL pick.

That doesn’t even make any sense. This will likely be our last top 10 pick for a good while. I think odds are very slim that they trade it, and you make it sound like a forgone conclusion.

[stnick2261]

Draft Lottery is sooner than I was expecting (May 12th) Just over a month away

[heyheymymy]

That doesn’t even make any sense. This will likely be our last top 10 pick for a good while. I think odds are very slim that they trade it, and you make it sound like a forgone conclusion.

All depends on the offer I guess. I could see a call come from a team wanting a reset with a big name to offload. If wemby is 100% and SA wants to go win now I could see them answering that call and considering. But it's just one scenario loosely suggested haven't looked at malcontents or numbers/years left or anything. I tried to say "if so, could see" but agree my framing was too absolutist.

There are a few names floating around and some teams in disarray. It could be a good chance to move up the time line for Wemby. If Pop is coming back I could see wanting to take one last shot for him. A lot of factors to consider but you're right. If Wemby is still dealing with DVT you could take that pick and have the timeline to develop it since Wemby would still be recovering. I also really like the top 4-7ish names this draft and would be trilled to add any of them to the team for sure. Hence why the value may exist to flip such a pick into a significant win now acquisition instead. I'm down either way. Just anticipating another potential spurs curveball after getting kinda bamboozled on Dilly last year even though I supported the move and like the results it was surprising in the moment. Could still foresee something unconventional occurring again but maybe we shouldn't over think it lol good call.

[Mr. Body]

That doesn’t even make any sense. This will likely be our last top 10 pick for a good while. I think odds are very slim that they trade it, and you make it sound like a forgone conclusion.

They're far more likely to trade up to get a guy they want than trading out.

[scottspurs]

Spurs biggest weakness draft board

Spurs are 27th in Reb%
25th in 2nd Chance pts
17th in PITP
26th in % Pts FT
22nd % PITP
25th in Def Rating
19th in 3-pt%
10th in % Pts 3pt

Many here want the Spurs to draft a shooter but looking at just the stats only the biggest need is rebounding , scoring in the paint, getting to the Ft line and defense. If you built a draft board looking to fix this it could look like this.

1. Big/Forward Cooper Flagg- Duh

2. Guard Dylan Harper- gets to the line, has 4 10+ ft attempt games including a 16 ft attempt game. Scores in paint at high clip. 5.1 reb per game from guard position

3. Big/forward Collin Murray-Boyles- gets to the line.
4 10+ ft attempt games including a 18 ft attempt game!! Very Good Defender with high block/steal rate. Scores in paint at high rate. 8.3 reb pg

4. Guard VJ Edgecombe- really good on ball defender on perimeter. 4+ 10 ft attempt games. 5.6 reb per game from guard position

5. Big Derik Queen- scores in paint at extremely high rate. Great rebounder 9 per game including 4 15+ reb games and 1 20 reb game. Gets to ft line 4 10+ ft attempt games. Won’t help much on defense but does rebound well

6. Big Thomas Sorber- good rebounder 8.5 per game. Blocks shots 2.0 pg and gets steals 1.5 pg. gets to ft line at nice rate including 3 10+ ft attempt games. Very efficient scoring in paint

7. Guard Kasparas Jakucionis- 3 10+ ft attempt games. 5.7 reb per game from guard position. Scores in paint at good rate. Average at best defender

8. Guard/forward Nique Clifford- great rebounder for a wing 9.6 per game. Decent defender. 4 10+ ft attempt games. Scores inside and out

9. Forward/Big Yaxel Lendeborg- elite rebounder 11.4 per game. Decent block and steals 1.8 and 1.7. Good defender. Scores inside the paint at good rate. 2 10+ ft attempt games.

10. Forward Liam Mcneely- previously had him off my board but did deeper dive. Will be a negative on defense but rebounds okay for a wing at 6.0 per game. 4 10+ ft attempt games surprised me. Shooting may have suffered because of an injury.

11. Big Maxine Raynaud- 10.6 reb per game pretty good. Decent defender. 3 10+ ft attempt games. Scores in paint well

12. Big Ryan Kalkbrenner- 8.7 rev per game good rebounder. Average defense. 2.7 blocks per game. 2 10+ ft attempt games

I eliminated any guard with less than 5 reb per game. I eliminated any forward with less than 6 reb per game. I eliminated any big with less than 8 reb per game. I eliminated all players that didn’t get to the line with at least 1 10+ ft attempt game. I eliminated anyone that shot less than 65% from the line.

Obviously the Spurs are not going to take all the other players off their board but I do believe drafting 3 of these 12 would improve the team. These 12 players could definitely help them with their greatest weaknesses.

[benefactor]

The Spurs are in the process of building a championship core around a generational young player. Why in the world would they trade away a top 10 pick?

[scott]

lol Spurs fans are going to be furious when SA trades the higher value pick away but hopefully if so it's for a win now return we're all happy with. I could see that happening and then getting Carter Bryant or Fleming with ATL pick.

I didn't like the MIN trade last year, specifically because of the return we got for it, but I didn't mind the concept behind it at all. I'm even more on board with such a move this year.

I'm warming up to CMB, but only a little bit. I just really hope we jump up, because 8-15 looks like a no man's land in terms of value.

[scott]

Spurs biggest weakness draft board

Spurs are 27th in Reb%
25th in 2nd Chance pts
17th in PITP
26th in % Pts FT
22nd % PITP
25th in Def Rating
19th in 3-pt%
10th in % Pts 3pt

Many here want the Spurs to draft a shooter but looking at just the stats only the biggest need is rebounding , scoring in the paint, getting to the Ft line and defense. If you built a draft board looking to fix this it could look like this.

1. Big/Forward Cooper Flagg- Duh

2. Guard Dylan Harper- gets to the line, has 4 10+ ft attempt games including a 16 ft attempt game. Scores in paint at high clip. 5.1 reb per game from guard position

3. Big/forward Collin Murray-Boyles- gets to the line.
4 10+ ft attempt games including a 18 ft attempt game!! Very Good Defender with high block/steal rate. Scores in paint at high rate. 8.3 reb pg

4. Guard VJ Edgecombe- really good on ball defender on perimeter. 4+ 10 ft attempt games. 5.6 reb per game from guard position

5. Big Derik Queen- scores in paint at extremely high rate. Great rebounder 9 per game including 4 15+ reb games and 1 20 reb game. Gets to ft line 4 10+ ft attempt games. Won’t help much on defense but does rebound well

6. Big Thomas Sorber- good rebounder 8.5 per game. Blocks shots 2.0 pg and gets steals 1.5 pg. gets to ft line at nice rate including 3 10+ ft attempt games. Very efficient scoring in paint

7. Guard Kasparas Jakucionis- 3 10+ ft attempt games. 5.7 reb per game from guard position. Scores in paint at good rate. Average at best defender

8. Guard/forward Nique Clifford- great rebounder for a wing 9.6 per game. Decent defender. 4 10+ ft attempt games. Scores inside and out

9. Forward/Big Yaxel Lendeborg- elite rebounder 11.4 per game. Decent block and steals 1.8 and 1.7. Good defender. Scores inside the paint at good rate. 2 10+ ft attempt games.

10. Forward Liam Mcneely- previously had him off my board but did deeper dive. Will be a negative on defense but rebounds okay for a wing at 6.0 per game. 4 10+ ft attempt games surprised me. Shooting may have suffered because of an injury.

11. Big Maxine Raynaud- 10.6 reb per game pretty good. Decent defender. 3 10+ ft attempt games. Scores in paint well

12. Big Ryan Kalkbrenner- 8.7 rev per game good rebounder. Average defense. 2.7 blocks per game. 2 10+ ft attempt games

I eliminated any guard with less than 5 reb per game. I eliminated any forward with less than 6 reb per game. I eliminated any big with less than 8 reb per game. I eliminated all players that didn’t get to the line with at least 1 10+ ft attempt game. I eliminated anyone that shot less than 65% from the line.

Obviously the Spurs are not going to take all the other players off their board but I do believe drafting 3 of these 12 would improve the team. These 12 players could definitely help them with their greatest weaknesses.

Nice take. I think this is an interesting approach to look at building a board, though I think we are in such need of talent overall that you need not restrict the board to these specific roles - but it is eye opening to build a board with that in mind. Thanks for putting in the work.

[BacktoBasics]

You're saying that no one will want the picks but the Spurs will still trade them for later picks?

Also, that they were able to trade a 8 pick last year but they wouldn't be able to this year?

I’m saying they’ll not likely return a significant player but potential pics down the road. Which we can then package with additional assets. Similar to last year.

[BacktoBasics]

They're far more likely to trade up to get a guy they want than trading out.

That would be ideal

[stnick2261]

I'm not a huge fan of the bigs in this draft. I'd still like to solidify the big man rotation through free agency or trades. I do like quite a few wings in the draft.

[baseline bum]

That doesn’t even make any sense. This will likely be our last top 10 pick for a good while. I think odds are very slim that they trade it, and you make it sound like a forgone conclusion.

I'm expecting at least one of 2030 and 2031 to be one since the 2030 has a swap with the shipwreck of Dallas as well as a top 1 protected swap with Minnesota and then 2031 has a swap with perennial lotto Sacramento.

[Splits]

1 more loss, 8 seed is guaranteed.

No Spurs No!

[Biggems]

Well, Toppin is staying in Lubbock. If he plays like he did this year, he should easily be a lottery pick in 2026.

[rjv]

1 more loss, 8 seed is guaranteed.

No Spurs No!

spurs aren't beating the dubs tonight so it's all but wrapped up. that portland loss was big.

[Seventyniner]

The Spurs are in the process of building a championship core around a generational young player. Why in the world would they trade away a top 10 pick?

Could have said that last summer too, and the Spurs punted #8 to the moon anyway.

[BackHome]

Well, Toppin is staying in Lubbock. If he plays like he did this year, he should easily be a lottery pick in 2026.

Both Ivisics brothers are also staying in as both will now be playing for Illinois - They were two I was looking in second round if we didn’t get a big with Hawks pick.

[quentin_compson]

The Spurs are in the process of building a championship core around a generational young player. Why in the world would they trade away a top 10 pick?

They did exactly that not even a year ago.

[keithington1]

A lineup of Fox, Castle, Wolf, CMB, and Wemby would have few holes.

[spurraider21]

A lineup of Fox, Castle, Wolf, CMB, and Wemby would have few holes.
it would have at the very least a Wolf sized hole

[Knoxxx]

The 8th pick in this draft is better than the previous year 8 pick. The ATL pick may be > also this year. But turning last year pick and change into Fox while offloading some of our roster clutter was solid.

Point being there are multiple ways to skin this cat but needy as we are we can also bring in 3 draft picks. But if a solid veteran comes up you look at it.

We do need to be all in either way and not just punt again. But even that can be undone in the near term (see Fox deal).

[spurraider21]

from reddit

https://i.gyazo.com/c150a64e4db5fe809607f894f8de6784.jpg

very littel off the dribble shooting in general. very little 2 point jump shooting. to me the key stat for his ability to hold up at the NBA level is going to be the "off screen 3pt" stuff. his percentage there held up well

[RC_Drunkford]

Agree on WAS for Harper and Bailey for Philly, though I think Bailey also would fit well in BKN as well. Both BKN and PHI would have that "homegrown" Rutgers connection as well.

I still like NOP as the best on the court fit for Flagg. Valid concerns about how the Pels have been able to manage the talent they've been delivered, but I think a DJM/Trey/Flagg/Herb/Missi lineup would be super fun, assuming NOP could flip Zion elsewhere.

why would you want Flagg in the Western conference? It‘s already a bloodbath while the East doesn‘t have a lot of star players

[scott]

why would you want Flagg in the Western conference? It‘s already a bloodbath while the East doesn‘t have a lot of star players

I want fun teams. I don't care what conference they are in.

[mystargtr34]

Scott NOP is the absolute last place I want Flagg.

Imagine having to tune in to those awful announcers to watch Flagg play. And that horrible Pelicans court.

[Dejounte]

Just like what he did with Wemby, Silver will make sure he goes to a legendary franchise. I say he’s going to the Bulls.

The all tall lineup

Giddey
White
Matas
Flagg
Vucevic

[RC_Drunkford]

Spurs biggest weakness draft board

Spurs are 27th in Reb%
25th in 2nd Chance pts
17th in PITP
26th in % Pts FT
22nd % PITP
25th in Def Rating
19th in 3-pt%
10th in % Pts 3pt


so basically this team sucks at everything when it comes to basketball. Which is why I want them to use all 3 picks, because about 50% of this roster are borderline NBA players.

[Dejounte]

so basically this team sucks at everything when it comes to basketball. Which is why I want them to use all 3 picks, because about 50% of this roster are borderline NBA players.

Nope. What his stats indicate is that the Spurs are lacking bigs who can rebound and overall physicality like I’ve been saying tbh

Kon and Sorber. Let’s go.

[RC_Drunkford]

I want fun teams. I don't care what conference they are in.

that‘s OUR conference. I‘m pretty sure you‘d want the Spurs to win titles. It‘ll be hard enough to go through OKC, Houston and Memphis. I don‘t need another stacked young team with Flagg around to make it even more difficult while you can make the playoffs in the East going 32-50

[RC_Drunkford]

Nope. What his stats indicate is that the Spurs are lacking bigs who can rebound and overall physicality like I’ve been saying tbh

Kon and Sorber. Let’s go.

It also lacks a head coach, a back up big, reliable 3-point shooting, basketball IQ and overall defense among other things…

[Dejounte]

It also lacks a head coach, a back up big, reliable 3-point shooting, basketball IQ and overall defense among other things…

What do the Wizards have? Jazz? Hornets? Nets? Raptors? A bunch of these teams wish they had a franchise player like we do, a second star like we do, and an up and coming third star like we do. Those fans WISH they had what we have.

I feel like we’re making excuses for why our big three can’t carry the team going forward and ready to give them a pass for not developing into a big three like they’re supposed to. To some extent, Wemby by himself should be able to make the entire team good enough if he’s a generational player like we all claim he is. If the team doesn’t make the playoffs next season because Wemby and Fox willed them there, then maybe just maybe they’re not cut out to be the next big thing in the league. I don’t believe I’ve seen a mega star like Wemby fail to make their team succeed at some decent level within the first three years before OR fail so much through three seasons and then suddenly be good. It’s make or break for Wemby next year.

[scott]

that‘s OUR conference. I‘m pretty sure you‘d want the Spurs to win titles. It‘ll be hard enough to go through OKC, Houston and Memphis. I don‘t need another stacked young team with Flagg around to make it even more difficult while you can make the playoffs in the East going 32-50

The 10th seeded EC team is only two games better than the 10th seeded WC team (and in fact the top ten teams in the East have a combined 20 less wins than the top 10 teams in the west, so on average the East is two games behind).

In any event... I still don't care about lessening competition in the West so that my team can win, because I'm not a bitch ass ho.

[scott]

Scott NOP is the absolute last place I want Flagg.

Imagine having to tune in to those awful announcers to watch Flagg play. And that horrible Pelicans court.

I watch the games to see the players, not listen to the announcers or look at the courts, tbh. Of all the lotto teams (aside from the Spurs), the potential roster construction with Flagg in NOP is the most fun. It's pretty simple, tbh. CHI, WAS, MIA, POR, SAC would be my next choices for fun destinations (in that order).

[baseline bum]

I want fun teams. I don't care what conference they are in.

I don't want Flagg blowing out his knee nor tearing his achilles being a second thought to the Saints' training staff. Worst possible place for him. I'm on the anywhere but NOP or Portland bandwagon if he ain't coming to SA.

[exstatic]

I watch the games to see the players, not listen to the announcers or look at the courts, tbh. Of all the lotto teams (aside from the Spurs), the potential roster construction with Flagg in NOP is the most fun. It's pretty simple, tbh. CHI, WAS, MIA, POR, SAC would be my next choices for fun destinations (in that order).

I watched a YouTube that disagrees with your basic premise, and I found their logic sound. They said if Flagg went to NO, his 3 pointer would have to translate IMMEDIATELY, or he’d really struggle because Zion operates almost exclusively in the paint, leaving no room for Flagg there.

[scott]

I watched a YouTube that disagrees with your basic premise, and I found their logic sound. They said if Flagg went to NO, his 3 pointer would have to translate IMMEDIATELY, or he’d really struggle because Zion operates almost exclusively in the paint, leaving no room for Flagg there.

My Flagg to NOP scenario involves Zion being moved.

Everyone's allowed to have their own destination they think is most fun for Flagg to land. Mine is NOP, regardless of what YouTube says.

[mystargtr34]

My Flagg to NOP scenario involves Zion being moved.

Everyone's allowed to have their own destination they think is most fun for Flagg to land. Mine is NOP, regardless of what YouTube says.

Agree scott. Nothing wrong with that. Good to be in the minority sometimes

It would be fun to see Zion, Flagg, Tre, Herb on the court at the same time that’s an awesome combination of athleticism, skill, shooting, defense when looking at it from a purely b ball persextive

[exstatic]

My Flagg to NOP scenario involves Zion being moved.

Everyone's allowed to have their own destination they think is most fun for Flagg to land. Mine is NOP, regardless of what YouTube says.

TBH, that’s exactly what that video said, Zion would need to be moved.

[Mal]

Maine > Duke > Utah for Flagg

[Vienna]

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2Fjared-mccain-shooting-breakdown-the-duke-freshman-guard-is-v0-kAtcEArZfZX-5Ye5RnXQLSKir2uNZPVwM-4q2h43M8A.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto %3Dwebp%26s%3D0fa897d74ae20921cb255f67fed9eec40310 8a00https://external-preview.redd.it/jared-mccain-shooting-breakdown-the-duke-freshman-guard-is-v0-kAtcEArZfZX-5Ye5RnXQLSKir2uNZPVwM-4q2h43M8A.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&9b8b8634

shooting from McCain looked similar to Kon. much better off the dribble tough.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2Fjared-mccain-shooting-breakdown-the-duke-freshman-guard-is-v0-kAtcEArZfZX-5Ye5RnXQLSKir2uNZPVwM-4q2h43M8A.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto %3Dwebp%26s%3D0fa897d74ae20921cb255f67fed9eec40310 8a00

[onechance87]

So annoying suns handing over a top 10 pick to rockets.No heart from them cowards.Hopefully they dont
get better pick then us.

[John B]

If Fleming is available at ATL pick, then I’d take Sorber with Spurs own and Fleming with ATL pick. I’d run either one besides Wemby defending on the opposing team. Call that greedy at getting defensive big. I like Kon, but worse case I can put Champ as Danny Green role at 3nD. Fox, Castle, Champ, Fleming, Wemby. Or Wemby, Sorber against team with jumbo bigs.

SRP I’d take a backup PG. If CP3 is willing to return as backup PG/mentor, even better.

[rankingtear]

CMB ultimate upside is to be able to be a small ball 5 in closing lineups and be the offensive hub in a handoff offense. None of which applies to our team.

[CGD]

If Maluach slides to our range after the Houston game, you have to take him right?

[mo7888]

If Maluach slides to our range after the Houston game, you have to take him right?

No you don't. Hopefully he won't be there, but you can get a backup C later in this draft.

[exstatic]

If Maluach slides to our range after the Houston game, you have to take him right?

Only if you want a guy who can’t get a visa, because he’s from South Sudan, and Trump doesn’t like “those people”.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

If Maluach slides to our range after the Houston game, you have to take him right?

Yes

[LeBowen]

Only if you want a guy who can’t get a visa, because he’s from South Sudan, and Trump doesn’t like “those people”.

Tbh, that only increases the odds of Spurs taking him to prove a point.
If they think he's worth the pick, they should take him, some things are bigger than basketball.

At this point I'm not that worried about the pick if we don't jump into top4.
One of Knueppel, Tre Johnson, Maluach, Fears or Jakucionis will be available.

I'm not a fan of picking another guard, but they should have a lot of value on the draft night and in some scenarios we could get a lot in return.
Can't say too much about ATL pick until we see if they make the playoffs.

If we draft two players, one has to be a wing with 3-D upside.

[exstatic]

Tbh, that only increases the odds of Spurs taking him to prove a point.
If they think he's worth the pick, they should take him, some things are bigger than basketball.

At this point I'm not that worried about the pick if we don't jump into top4.
One of Knueppel, Tre Johnson, Maluach, Fears or Jakucionis will be available.

I'm not a fan of picking another guard, but they should have a lot of value on the draft night and in some scenarios we could get a lot in return.
Can't say too much about ATL pick until we see if they make the playoffs.

If we draft two players, one has to be a wing with 3-D upside.

You don’t waste a lottery pick on a player from a country who’s citizens will not be allowed to remain here, all visas cancelled.

[Ice009]

Why are they all getting their visas revoked? I haven't followed any of this political shit. Is it really because Trump doesn't like them?

[CGD]

No you don't. Hopefully he won't be there, but you can get a backup C later in this draft.

I think if the shooting touch from 3 is real or workable (im dubious), it'd be hard to pass. Kinda fits the mould of the modern big.

[CGD]

Only if you want a guy who can’t get a visa, because he’s from South Sudan, and Trump doesn’t like “those people”.

It's a shitty situation they put him in, and for no good reason.

Typically he'd be able to switch visa classifications without having to leave the US as a professional athlete (a good thing), but Rubio is saying no new visas for nationals from South Sudan. What's unclear to me is if that only mean people outside the US seeking to get in (including their diplomats), or if it also applies to people changing status from within the US.

[CGD]

Why are they all getting their visas revoked? I haven't followed any of this political shit. Is it really because Trump doesn't like them?

This is not the forum for it, but you should really educate yourself about this stuff separately.

Basically, Trump has mandated a daily deportation quota, and they are using all tools to meet the number. Revoking visas is one of their many tools. This, even if it means going after people who aren't gangbangers or serious public safety threats, etc. This is well documented -- students, organizers, abuelas, green card holders, and even an Canadian actress (a smokeshow actually) -- have been caught up. Shit, they deported a guy the other day in my area for wearing a Chicago Bull's hoody, saying that that was enough to prove we was in a gang (he wasnt).

And then his mouthpiece said this about potentially deporting US CITIZENS to El Salvador: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs32oUJPXWU&ab_channel=PBSNewsHour

Are there people that do bad shit being deported? I'm sure.
Are they anywhere near representative of who is being deported now? Absolutely not.

[BacktoBasics]

Why are they all getting their visas revoked? I haven't followed any of this political shit. Is it really because Trump doesn't like them?

It's Racism at its core.

[spurraider21]

Nope. What his stats indicate is that the Spurs are lacking bigs who can rebound and overall physicality like I’ve been saying tbh

Kon and Sorber. Let’s go.
sure but you want a physical/big player who can rebound who can also share the floor with wemby. from that perspective, Sorber isn't ideal.

Rasheer Fleming, Carter Bryant are the ones who fit that bill

i like Sorber as this team desperately needs a backup C so the defense doesnt just completely fall apart with wemby on the bench.

[Dejounte]

sure but you want a physical/big player who can rebound who can also share the floor with wemby. from that perspective, Sorber isn't ideal.

Rasheer Fleming, Carter Bryant are the ones who fit that bill

i like Sorber as this team desperately needs a backup C so the defense doesnt just completely fall apart with wemby on the bench.

You keep saying this and I hard disagree every time, lol.

also, I think many won’t like this but Joan Beringer might be an underdog for one of our picks.

[Dejounte]

This is not the forum for it, but you should really educate yourself about this stuff separately.

Basically, Trump has mandated a daily deportation quota, and they are using all tools to meet the number. Revoking visas is one of their many tools. This, even if it means going after people who aren't gangbangers or serious public safety threats, etc. This is well documented -- students, organizers, abuelas, green card holders, and even an Canadian actress (a smokeshow actually) -- have been caught up. Shit, they deported a guy the other day in my area for wearing a Chicago Bull's hoody, saying that that was enough to prove we was in a gang (he wasnt).

And then his mouthpiece said this about potentially deporting US CITIZENS to El Salvador: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs32oUJPXWU&ab_channel=PBSNewsHour

Are there people that do bad shit being deported? I'm sure.
Are they anywhere near representative of who is being deported now? Absolutely not.

I’m going to tell you to shut it with telling the truth and sToP tAlKiNg PoLitIcs iN mAh BasKetBall FoRuM because talking about sports is so much more important than the cold reality going on around us.

[CorrectCrusader]

I’m going to tell you to shut it with telling the truth and sToP tAlKiNg PoLitIcs iN mAh BasKetBall FoRuM because talking about sports is so much more important than the cold reality going on around us.

You politics people are so fucking annoying, left or right.
If you care THAT MUCH then go do some irl organizing, nobody wants to hear you people sniff your own ass in a basketball thread

[K...]

You politics people are so fucking annoying, left or right.
If you care THAT MUCH then go do some irl organizing, nobody wants to hear you people sniff your own ass in a basketball thread

would you pick a guy from S sudan or not? seems straightforward the spurs shouldn't draft a foreign national who can't get a visa

[Dejounte]

You politics people are so fucking annoying, left or right.
If you care THAT MUCH then go do some irl organizing, nobody wants to hear you people sniff your own ass in a basketball thread
Cry me a fucking river, you big baby who can’t think beyond the shallow concepts of life. I’m sorry you’re such a sensitive simpleton.

Eat, shit, sleep, wake up — that’s all your life’s meaning is and you’re offended by anything that disrupts your pointless life. Sit down.

[heyheymymy]

like the Joan Beringer call, Dejounte

Fleming
Bryant
Beringer

FULLY RELOADED

[heyheymymy]

tankathon Player Rankings updated about 21 hours ago

[mo7888]

I think if the shooting touch from 3 is real or workable (im dubious), it'd be hard to pass. Kinda fits the mould of the modern big.

I don't have faith in his outside shot, so I'd pass at #8. If he falls to the Atlanta pick, which is doubt, then I'd be very interested.

[mo7888]

would you pick a guy from S sudan or not? seems straightforward the spurs shouldn't draft a foreign national who can't get a visa

If I valued him as the bpa available at the spot I'm picking (which on my board is in the 10-14 range) then I would take him without question.

[CorrectCrusader]

would you pick a guy from S sudan or not? seems straightforward the spurs shouldn't draft a foreign national who can't get a visa

This is such a nonissue especially for the Spurs. Any team willing to pick a player in the top 10 would be willing to buy them the Gold trump card or whatever the fuck. $5m is chump change for NBA teams.

[CorrectCrusader]

Cry me a fucking river, you big baby who can’t think beyond the shallow concepts of life. I’m sorry you’re such a sensitive simpleton.

Eat, shit, sleep, wake up — that’s all your life’s meaning is and you’re offended by anything that disrupts your pointless life. Sit down.

You act so high and mighty because muh news of the day bullshit. You're crying about it on a fucking basketball forum. Go annoy someone else you fucking twit

[Manu&Duncan fan]

You keep saying this and I hard disagree every time, lol.

also, I think many won’t like this but Joan Beringer might be an underdog for one of our picks.

Dejounte, Do you think Sober can play with Wemby? From what I can see, my answer is no. But my view has been always affected or changed by experts like you.

I like Sorber a lot. Based on his age and current skill and strength, He may develop into a start center for other teams, not spurs.

Plesae share your thoughts if I missed your previous analysis on Sorber.

[objective]

Wemby can play with anyone, it's a bigger issue that the player can perform well without Wemby on the court.

I don't even have a problem with Malauch on the court in the top 10. No one wants to burn a top 10 pick on a back-up center but let's be honest, with Wemby's health scare he's probably going to be on a games/minutes/travel limit going forward, and you need a back up center who can start 15+ games and even play with Wemby. So if there's a great candidate to fill that role then take him, if he's the right guy

[Dejounte]

You act so high and mighty because muh news of the day bullshit. You're crying about it on a fucking basketball forum. Go annoy someone else you fucking twit
If you’re so annoyed, put me on ignore. The only one crying here is you, snowflake.

[benefactor]

They did exactly that not even a year ago.
And would you like to share with the class the glaring difference between last year and this year?

[scottspurs]

True Shooting % Draft Rankings


If the Spurs decide they need to add shooting prospects these guys could help.




Cedric Coward - 70.0% post draft
Vladislav Goldin - 65.4% 2nd Round
John Tonje - 64.7% post Draft
Kon Knueppel - 64.2% top 10
Rasheer Fleming - 63.8% top 20
Koby Brea - 63.6% post draft
Sion James - 63.5% 2nd Round
Bogoljub Markovic - 62.5% 2nd Round
Jase Richardson - 62.4% top 15
Isiah Evans - 62.1% 2nd round
Sergio De Larrea - 61.8% 1st round
Nique Clifford - 60.3% top 20
Walter Clayton Jr. - 60.2% Top 20
Cooper Flagg - 59.3% 1st overall
Yaxel Lendeborg - 59.2% 1st round
Derek Harper - 58.7% top 3
Johann Grunloh - 58.5% post draft
Eric Dixon - 58.3% post draft
Alijah Martin - 57.6% post draft
Kobe Johnson - 57.5% post draft
Milan Momcilovic - 57.4% post draft
Jaxson Robinson - 56.9% post draft
Mark Sears - 56.7% post draft
Alex Toohey - 56.2% post draft
Maxime Raynaud - 55.8% 2nd round
Milos Uzan - 55.4 % 2nd Round
Payton Sandfort - 54.5% post draft



These are the 27 prospects that shot over 45% FG, 33% 3-pt and 70% FT. Obviously this doesn’t paint the full picture so I added where the Spurs could get them based on talent and I added exceptions that could be better shooters with less volume below. Also not sure who Cedric Coward is but he only played 6 games so not sure if he was just hot or if he is a sleeper.


Exceptions. These players could be better shooters with less volume in the NBA.




Kasparas Jakucionis- 59.0% top 15
Tre Johnson - 55.7% top 10
VJ Edgecombe- 55.2% top 5
Ace Bailey - 53.6% top 5
Liam Mcneely 52.9% top 20

[The Truth #6]

Looking at that list, I'm intrigued by Jase Richardson and Rasheer Fleming.

[scottspurs]

Cedric Coward Draft Sleeper:


So after seeing he had a 70.0% True Shooting % in College I decided to go watch this guys tape last night. Only found 3 full games and a couple of highlight videos but damn was I impressed. It’s a small sample size but these are the notes I made:


Good shooting form with quick and high release. Starts a little low below the chest but still gets it up quick.


Long arms would not be surprised if he has a 7’0 foot wingspan


Average athlete at best but shows very high basketball IQ as a defensive and offensive prospect. Tough and competitive


Very tough on defense. Decent foot speed but uses his strength and long arms to disrupt. 1.7 blocks per game as a guard. Shows a lot of competitiveness even when being beat off the dribble. Excellent post defense for a guard. Hold his ground against much bigger opponents. Looks to have very strong lower body strength. Very switchable but also great at fighting through screens. Great rebounding for a guard with 7 per game


Offensively I figured he would just be a shooter looking at the stats but he scores multiple ways. Very good slasher. Scores when he attacks basket. Decent handles for a big guard. Absolutely abuses smaller players in the post. Very good footwork. Very unselfish. Looked for teammates often. Averaged 3.7 assists. Knock down shooter 40.0% at high volume


Smaller school guy who transferred from Eastern Washington to Washington State. Sample size is small with only 6 games this past season due to a shoulder injury. So the Medicals would have to check out. Definitely concerns about level of competition. May go back to school I think he has 1 more year of eligibility.


Stats:


17.7 Pts
7.0 Reb
3.7 AST
1.7 Blk
0.8 Stl
55.7% fg
40.0% 3-pt
83.9% ft
26.0 PER


Overall he is the type of prospect that will go under the radar that the Spurs will love because of his versatility and IQ. Ready made prospect that wouldn’t need alot of improvement just fine tuning. Would love him in the 2nd Round or as a non drafted two-way player but would also not be surprised if he rose up draft boards after combine and workouts should he declare.

[exstatic]

Cedric Coward Draft Sleeper:


So after seeing he had a 70.0% True Shooting % in College I decided to go watch this guys tape last night. Only found 3 full games and a couple of highlight videos but damn was I impressed. It’s a small sample size but these are the notes I made:


Good shooting form with quick and high release. Starts a little low below the chest but still gets it up quick.


Long arms would not be surprised if he has a 7’0 foot wingspan


Average athlete at best but shows very high basketball IQ as a defensive and offensive prospect. Tough and competitive


Very tough on defense. Decent foot speed but uses his strength and long arms to disrupt. 1.7 blocks per game as a guard. Shows a lot of competitiveness even when being beat off the dribble. Excellent post defense for a guard. Hold his ground against much bigger opponents. Looks to have very strong lower body strength. Very switchable but also great at fighting through screens. Great rebounding for a guard with 7 per game


Offensively I figured he would just be a shooter looking at the stats but he scores multiple ways. Very good slasher. Scores when he attacks basket. Decent handles for a big guard. Absolutely abuses smaller players in the post. Very good footwork. Very unselfish. Looked for teammates often. Averaged 3.7 assists. Knock down shooter 40.0% at high volume


Smaller school guy who transferred from Eastern Washington to Washington State. Sample size is small with only 6 games this past season due to a shoulder injury. So the Medicals would have to check out. Definitely concerns about level of competition. May go back to school I think he has 1 more year of eligibility.


Stats:


17.7 Pts
7.0 Reb
3.7 AST
1.7 Blk
0.8 Stl
55.7% fg
40.0% 3-pt
83.9% ft
26.0 PER


Overall he is the type of prospect that will go under the radar that the Spurs will love because of his versatility and IQ. Ready made prospect that wouldn’t need alot of improvement just fine tuning. Would love him in the 2nd Round or as a non drafted two-way player but would also not be surprised if he rose up draft boards after combine and workouts should he declare.



















To me, using a 6 game sample is the same as trying to shoe horn a player who plays 6 minutes into his per 36 stats. It’s just not enough court time.

[scottspurs]

To me, using a 6 game sample is the same as trying to shoe horn a player who plays 6 minutes into his per 36 stats. It’s just not enough court time.


Fair enough but he looks like Jalen Williams to me. Same style of game. I trust my eyes. Once again small sample size but better shooting numbers than Klay Thompson his final year at Washington State with similar amounts of volume. Just a sleeper is all I’m saying

[TimmehC]

These two have been my fav sleeper picks for a few months. Fleming seems like a good change of pace from Sochan with his offensive floor spacing and active help defense. The team needs another true PF anyway, so I don't hate it even though he'll need some time to develop.

Richardson is exactly the kind of combo guard the Spurs' FO repeatedly falls in love with. So if McLaughlin and CP3 are gone I could see him pushing Wesley for backup minutes behind Fox. (Side note: I cannot think of a better full-time mentor for Wesley than De'Aaron Fox, since TP barely comes around the team these days. If anyone is going to unlock BW, it's Fox)

[BatManu20]

1910723516779118756

[rascal]

I'd be happy with Fleming and MCNeeley

Wemby
Fleming
McNeeley
Castle
Fox

That's a good starting lineup.

Fleming is solid all around and would complement sochan's short comings in 3 pt shooting at PF and has good positional size/wingspan lenght and good athleticism who can run with the Spurs athletic guards and finish at the rim.

I believe McNeeley will be better than his shooting stats last year would indicate(passes the eye test for ball handling / shooting form/ quickness/ passing/ ability to get to the rim and finish strong) and he has true positional size for a SF and enough athleticism to not be a liability for an NBA SF.

[benefactor]

I just don't see a reason to burn that first pick on Fleming. He will be there for the second pick.

[rascal]

I just don't see a reason to burn that first pick on Fleming. He will be there for the second pick.

I'd rather have both Fleming and McNeeley over Kneuppel.

[benefactor]

I'd rather have both Fleming and McNeeley over Kneuppel.
I'm good with Kon on the first pick and Fleming on the second.

[mo7888]

I think McNeely is going to be a riser going into rhe draft after individual workouts. I have him 6 overall and while I don't expect him to go that high, I also don't expect him to be there with the Atlanta pick. For that 4 spot I really like Fleming and Bryant.

[ixiXSolidXixi]

I know the lottery is not done but are we getting the 8th pick and 14 or 15 at best?

[exstatic]

I know the lottery is not done but are we getting the 8th pick and 14 or 15 at best?

Do you?

Your question is nonsensical, because you’re asking to predict the future. The question will answer itself in a short while.

[mudyez]

Visa stuff aside (and I don't see us being reluctant because of that), I really like Maluach.

He probably will go to Toronto (even giving him some kind of visa insurance) but that makes Poeltl available.

Is there a world, in which we get our hands on Poeltl? Problem should be our contracts. I personally like Keldon and don't want to trade him...but if we use our pick(s) on a wing, it makes a lot of sense.
Is Poeltl overpaid as a backup anyway? With Wemby being managed and able to play some 4 at least he could still get to 18-22 minutes.

I'm still high on Danny Wolf though...is he enough as a Wemby backup? I'd #15 already a reach for him?

[baseline bum]

I just don't see a reason to burn that first pick on Fleming. He will be there for the second pick.

IDK that wingspan and shooting ability might end up having him go way above what the mocks are projecting when the picks are made by real GMs with their jobs on the line. If the Spurs pick 8-10 and love this guy I might just take him then. Especially when Kon probably won't be there at #8.

[mudyez]

Btw: Why many mocks and even a lot of people here have the Spurs taking a PG (mostly Fears...sometimes Traore)?

Fox, Castle, Wesley and maybe even CP3 for one more year should have us really fine there. I can see it with a guy like Demin or Kasparis as they can play the wing (even though their shooting would hurt) but not with pure PGs.

[baseline bum]

Btw: Why many mocks and even a lot of people here have the Spurs taking a PG (mostly Fears...sometimes Traore)?

Fox, Castle, Wesley and maybe even CP3 for one more year should have us really fine there. I can see it with a guy like Demin or Kasparis as they can play the wing (even though their shooting would hurt) but not with pure PGs.

I'd be pretty surprised if CP3 didn't take one last shot at a ring on the Lakers now that they're a title contender again with Luka. Especially with his family being in LA still.

[onechance87]

Btw: Why many mocks and even a lot of people here have the Spurs taking a PG (mostly Fears...sometimes Traore)?

Fox, Castle, Wesley and maybe even CP3 for one more year should have us really fine there. I can see it with a guy like Demin or Kasparis as they can play the wing (even though their shooting would hurt) but not with pure PGs.

Because there is a chance he can be a star and can be used for a trade.I mean it wont hurt having him coming off the bench.Doubt he
will be worst then branham and wesley.

[exstatic]

Btw: Why many mocks and even a lot of people here have the Spurs taking a PG (mostly Fears...sometimes Traore)?

Fox, Castle, Wesley and maybe even CP3 for one more year should have us really fine there. I can see it with a guy like Demin or Kasparis as they can play the wing (even though their shooting would hurt) but not with pure PGs.

I think if he gets into the right situation, Fears is going to be great. He was ranked 40th in his recruiting class, and he’s now being mocked top 10 in this draft by many services, and that’s with Europeans dropped into the mix, too. He’s a young kid, an 18 YO draftee in June. I don’t see him as a redundancy, long term. Castle is multi-positional, CP has one year left, at best, and who knows what Blake Wesley really is. He only started getting minutes when Wemby and Fox got shut down, meaningless minutes on a team trying to lose. This will be unpopular, but I really see Fox as a one contract guy, 4-5 years. He will be SUPER expensive (35% of the cap) after that, and likely hamper roster quality. It would be nice to have one or more development options in the pipeline.

[Mr. Body]

Cooper had a thing where instead of declaring, he's saying he may need more time to consider staying in college. Speculation that he wants to see who gets the #1 pick and might pull out if it's not going the right way.

[BackHome]

I would agree I see Fox just staying through his first contract and Fears does have legit talent and high upside potential it will be interesting to see what path the Spurs will go.

[Mr. Body]

IMO there's not a prayer they take Fears. Him and Fox are practically the same player, tiny guards with poor defense, dynamic attacks, not great shooting from deep, and decent playmaking for others. They'll commit 50 mil or whatever for Fox a year and won't have practically the same guy coming off the bench.

[dn0774]

Cooper had a thing where instead of declaring, he's saying he may need more time to consider staying in college. Speculation that he wants to see who gets the #1 pick and might pull out if it's not going the right way.

If the speculation is correct, I wonder which team(s) he would be avoiding. I can't recall someone trying to dictate their destination in the draft in quite awhile. There are some train wreck teams but I feel like even those have some credible talent moving forward.

[Mr. Body]

If the speculation is correct, I wonder which team(s) he would be avoiding. I can't recall someone trying to dictate their destination in the draft in quite awhile. There are some train wreck teams but I feel like even those have some credible talent moving forward.

My guess, absolutely Charlotte. Possibly Washington. Maybe Utah. Maybe Toronto.

[Biggems]

I know this is the draft board, but would Walker Kessler fit our roster? I am wondering if we would be able to play him next to Wemby. If so, I wonder what we would have to give up to get him, especially the draft capital. Also, if he does fit and we go get him, where does our focus now go in the draft?

[Manu&Duncan fan]

1910723516779118756

Fleming is a must pick for Spurs.

[LeBowen]

https://floorandceiling.substack.com/p/2025-nba-draft-big-board-flagg-maluach-harper

Decent read.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

https://floorandceiling.substack.com/p/2025-nba-draft-big-board-flagg-maluach-harper

Decent read.

Khaman at #2 is too high. Top 8 for sure.

Kon is also too high. Jaku too low. I'll not not surprised to see Kon and Jaku switch spots. Jaku's play maker value is higher than Kon's 3-point and secondary play-making.

I'll happy to see Spurs pick Fleming at 8, and Kon at 14. Yes. I think Kon will be available at 14.

[Ice009]

Cooper had a thing where instead of declaring, he's saying he may need more time to consider staying in college. Speculation that he wants to see who gets the #1 pick and might pull out if it's not going the right way.

I was actually asking this question a couple of months ago. I really don't think Cooper wants to play for a crappy franchise, so that is why I asked this question a little while ago. If true, I wonder which teams he wouldn't be interested in (If I had to guess, I'd say Charlotte, Washington due to neither team having a winning culture, and then possibly Toronto, Utah and maybe New Orleans). Since he picked a college team that has a winning culture, I think he wants to play for a team like that in the NBA.

Can the players still decide after the draft lottery if they want to go back to college if they don't like what team/s get the top picks (I thought you have to decide before the draft lottery?)? What is the cutoff date where you have to decide whether you want to declare for the draft or stay in college?
Also, can a player change his mind after declaring for the draft and go back and still re-enter the draft the following year?

[rogcl1]

I was actually asking this question a couple of months ago. I really don't think Cooper wants to play for a crappy franchise, so that is why I asked this question a little while ago. If true, I wonder which teams he wouldn't be interested in (If I had to guess, I'd say Charlotte, Washington due to neither team having a winning culture, and then possibly Toronto, Utah and maybe New Orleans). Since he picked a college team that has a winning culture, I think he wants to play for a team like that in the NBA.

Can the players still decide after the draft lottery if they want to go back to college if they don't like what team/s get the top picks (I thought you have to decide before the draft lottery?)? What is the cutoff date where you have to decide whether you want to declare for the draft or stay in college?
Also, can a player change his mind after declaring for the draft and go back and still re-enter the draft the following year?

The lottery drawing is May 12 and players can withdraw and return to college up to 10 days before the actual draft which would be June 15.

[heyheymymy]

damn how bad would it be for fans if their team got #1 and Cooper is like welp going back to school another year I guess

[TekXX]

damn how bad would it be for fans if their team got #1 and Cooper is like welp going back to school another year I guess

Hilarious, unless it's the Spurs. Hopefully he's got a good head on his shoulders and sees the value of playing with Wemby and the team improving quickly.

[Dejounte]

Anyone seeing Castle’s natural tendencies these last 20 games should see that he has a knack for doing a dump off pass to Biyombo, which is all the more reason they need to pick up a big who is skilled inside. Wemby will only be there half the time as he likes to float on the perimeter for the other half.

[Dejounte]

Anyone seeing Castle’s natural tendencies these last 20 games should see that he has a knack for doing a dump off pass to Biyombo, which is all the more reason they need to pick up a big who is skilled inside. Wemby will only be there half the time as he likes to float on the perimeter for the other half.

[onechance87]

Anyone seeing Castle’s natural tendencies these last 20 games should see that he has a knack for doing a dump off pass to Biyombo, which is all the more reason they need to pick up a big who is skilled inside. Wemby will only be there half the time as he likes to float on the perimeter for the other half.

will what big is that? fleming,sorber or wolf maybe?

[John B]

Visa stuff aside (and I don't see us being reluctant because of that), I really like Maluach.

He probably will go to Toronto (even giving him some kind of visa insurance) but that makes Poeltl available.

Is there a world, in which we get our hands on Poeltl? Problem should be our contracts. I personally like Keldon and don't want to trade him...but if we use our pick(s) on a wing, it makes a lot of sense.
Is Poeltl overpaid as a backup anyway? With Wemby being managed and able to play some 4 at least he could still get to 18-22 minutes.

I'm still high on Danny Wolf though...is he enough as a Wemby backup? I'd #15 already a reach for him?

I also like Danny Wolf. Wolf is a very smart bball player and legit 7 footer 250 lb. I’m not overly concerned with his “lack of athleticism” with the best help defender of the NBA ready to swat whoever Wolf slows down. His turnovers are from playing facilitator at Michigan (imagine Sochan playing PG but 10x more effective). So I’m fine with Wolf at ATL pick or trade down and get more future picks.

Spurs can really address their need for PF/C need at this draft. Sorber/Fleming or Sorber/Wolf. I like Kon but watching Champ play, I think he can play the Danny Green 3nD. Move Vassell to 6th man or trade him. Champ at SF is ideal.

[John B]

I was actually asking this question a couple of months ago. I really don't think Cooper wants to play for a crappy franchise, so that is why I asked this question a little while ago. If true, I wonder which teams he wouldn't be interested in (If I had to guess, I'd say Charlotte, Washington due to neither team having a winning culture, and then possibly Toronto, Utah and maybe New Orleans). Since he picked a college team that has a winning culture, I think he wants to play for a team like that in the NBA.

Can the players still decide after the draft lottery if they want to go back to college if they don't like what team/s get the top picks (I thought you have to decide before the draft lottery?)? What is the cutoff date where you have to decide whether you want to declare for the draft or stay in college?
Also, can a player change his mind after declaring for the draft and go back and still re-enter the draft the following year?

Has any projected #1 went back and risk it all? That’s a big risk to take. So I doubt it.

[scott]

We've talked about this before - but there are a lot of scenarios where Flagg can exert pressure on teams to dictate his destination, and NIL money is a little bit of a Sword of Damocles that comes into play. It provides just enough of a threat to make returning to school a viable option to give teams a little bit of a pucker of their booties.

Another key thing to watch is not whether a team Flagg doesn't like lands #1, but if a team he does like jumps up into the Top 4 (SAS, PHI, HOU, CHI, MIA, BKN, DAL, ATL might be markets that appeal to him)... then he gets even more leverage because he makes an exit path more palatable for a team with #1 where he might want to go. For example, a team like CHA is more likely to just call his bluff if their alternative is trading back to #8. Because in that case, they're faced with the choice of Flagg or Harper, or getting someone at #8 plus extra assets. They'll just stay put and take Harper. But if they only need to trade back to #2, then their choice is Flagg or Harper or Harper plus assets. It's up to them to decide if the risk of Flagg withdrawing is worth passing up the extra assets.

[rascal]

Why would Flagg not want to play for Charlotte. He's already close to Charlotte playing for Duke and Charlotte does have some good players.

[Dejounte]

https://x.com/realpjhoops/status/1911124475342458965?s=46

“The Spurs don’t talk about stats (in regards to Castle), they talk about presence in the locker room, competitiveness, intangibles”

I’ve been saying this. The Spurs will draft exactly the same way. Who from the draft meets this criteria? I know who, but I’ll let y’all figure it out. Here’s a tip: watch interviews from the player and that player’s teammates and coaches.

Here’s one:
https://www.fayobserver.com/story/sports/college/acc/2024/10/23/kon-knueppel-duke-basketball-jon-scheyer-cooper-flagg-nba-mock-draft-wisconsin/75752157007/

[Mr. Body]

Has any projected #1 went back and risk it all? That’s a big risk to take. So I doubt it.

NIL is changing things. He could be making $8 million staying for another year, for example. The risk is that next year it's still the same teams in the mix (mostly) and he may not go #1.

Like, assuming there are three preferred teams right now. Generously I'm going to say SAS with Phila and Brooklyn. Those are good markets and have pretty decent structure. Then there are some other teams that have good fanbases or other advantages, like Portland.

It's not clear what teams will be bad next year. Detroit got very good this year, for example. Those preferred teams above may not be contenders for top 4 picks next year.

I dunno. Seriously doubt he stays, but if it's Charlotte, hell, I'd play college for another year. Terrible franchise, bad fan base, a team with a guy who beat up his wife, a guy who brought a gun to a friend at a nightclub, and a 'franchise' guy who just chucks up the wildest shit. I can't imagine wanting to play for them.

But the NIL does change things. Takes a hit on the long-term, but he's still high school age and rolling the dice after taking a cool $8 million or so playing at Duke isn't a bad option.

[Mr. Body]

https://x.com/realpjhoops/status/1911124475342458965?s=46

“The Spurs don’t talk about stats (in regards to Castle), they talk about presence in the locker room, competitiveness, intangibles”

I’ve been saying this. The Spurs will draft exactly the same way. Who from the draft meets this criteria? I know who, but I’ll let y’all figure it out. Here’s a tip: watch interviews from the player and that player’s teammates and coaches.

Here’s one:
https://www.fayobserver.com/story/sports/college/acc/2024/10/23/kon-knueppel-duke-basketball-jon-scheyer-cooper-flagg-nba-mock-draft-wisconsin/75752157007/

Yeah, I think Knueppel looks exactly like what they'd be going for. He'd be a perfect piece out of this draft playing a swing/wing role. Can connect, run plays, cut, shoot, really smart player.

I'm finding myself intrigued by Tre Johnson a lot again. His scoring was exceptional on a bad Texas team and his off-ball abilities are pretty enticing. I'd probably slot him behind Knupp in that potential range but he could be a firecracker playing off Vic, Castle and Fox. A team that's not able to pay attention to him could be in trouble.

[Dejounte]

will what big is that? fleming,sorber or wolf maybe?

I’m warming up to Queen again tbh. The defense might be bad, but if we’re all in awe of how flashy Castle’s crossovers, deceleration, creative passing, and all the flair… i think Queen has the same flashiness Castle has on offense. Queen’s offense is elite as a big man and I think adding him will mean we’re on prime time TV all the time.

[SpursBills]

Here's some Kon propaganda:

https://i.postimg.cc/52vQq03g/Gnt-WK7-IXMAAy-U2m.jpg
Courtesy of Ben Pfeifer https://x.com/bjpf_


"Big time passes" subjectively qualified as "high level passes with respect to vision, anticipation, placement, usually tight window high value passes"

Top left is strictly play finishers
Bottom right are high level connectors / secondary creator potential

[exstatic]

NIL is changing things. He could be making $8 million staying for another year, for example. The risk is that next year it's still the same teams in the mix (mostly) and he may not go #1.

Like, assuming there are three preferred teams right now. Generously I'm going to say SAS with Phila and Brooklyn. Those are good markets and have pretty decent structure. Then there are some other teams that have good fanbases or other advantages, like Portland.

It's not clear what teams will be bad next year. Detroit got very good this year, for example. Those preferred teams above may not be contenders for top 4 picks next year.

I dunno. Seriously doubt he stays, but if it's Charlotte, hell, I'd play college for another year. Terrible franchise, bad fan base, a team with a guy who beat up his wife, a guy who brought a gun to a friend at a nightclub, and a 'franchise' guy who just chucks up the wildest shit. I can't imagine wanting to play for them.

But the NIL does change things. Takes a hit on the long-term, but he's still high school age and rolling the dice after taking a cool $8 million or so playing at Duke isn't a bad option.

The other risk is that his knee explodes like Shaun Livingston’s, and that $8M has to last him the rest of his life. It would be ABSOLUTELY stupid to go back to Duke.

[Mr. Body]

The other risk is that his knee explodes like Shaun Livingston’s, and that $8M has to last him the rest of his life. It would be ABSOLUTELY stupid to go back to Duke.

I still wouldn't want to play for Charlotte.

[exstatic]

I still wouldn't want to play for Charlotte.

If Charlotte spends #1 on you,they’re at least going to pay out your first contract, like ~$50M over 4 years, even if you get hurt. Look at New Orleans and Zion. They just can’t quit him, and they really need to at this point, well into his second deal. Teams are extremely reluctant to give up on #1 overall draft picks.

Just tell Charlotte that if they pick you, you’ll sign your year 5 tender offer and walk for nothing. They’ll trade back.

[mo7888]

The other risk is that his knee explodes like Shaun Livingston’s, and that $8M has to last him the rest of his life. It would be ABSOLUTELY stupid to go back to Duke.

I'm pretty sure that a large insurance policy would be in place to protect future earning if a major injury occurred.

[KobesAchilles]

Besides Embiid got picked 3rd with a blown knee so him Flagg getting hurt isn’t that big a deal. He will still be a top 5 pick even if injured

[baseline bum]

We've talked about this before - but there are a lot of scenarios where Flagg can exert pressure on teams to dictate his destination, and NIL money is a little bit of a Sword of Damocles that comes into play. It provides just enough of a threat to make returning to school a viable option to give teams a little bit of a pucker of their booties.

Another key thing to watch is not whether a team Flagg doesn't like lands #1, but if a team he does like jumps up into the Top 4 (SAS, PHI, HOU, CHI, MIA, BKN, DAL, ATL might be markets that appeal to him)... then he gets even more leverage because he makes an exit path more palatable for a team with #1 where he might want to go. For example, a team like CHA is more likely to just call his bluff if their alternative is trading back to #8. Because in that case, they're faced with the choice of Flagg or Harper, or getting someone at #8 plus extra assets. They'll just stay put and take Harper. But if they only need to trade back to #2, then their choice is Flagg or Harper or Harper plus assets. It's up to them to decide if the risk of Flagg withdrawing is worth passing up the extra assets.

Problem is the deadline to withdraw is in late May and I don't think teams can start trading again until the days leading up to the draft.

[scott]

Problem is the deadline to withdraw is in late May and I don't think teams can start trading again until the days leading up to the draft.

They can start trading on Monday if they're eliminated from the playoffs

[exstatic]

They can start trading on Monday if they're eliminated from the playoffs

Yup. A little known loophole that once you’re eliminated from the post season, either by missing the playoffs or being knocked out, you can trade with any other team under the same circumstances.

[baseline bum]

They can start trading on Monday if they're eliminated from the playoffs

Damn always thought there was a moratorium until around the draft. Well that makes shit more interesting. So is salary matching based on this year's or next year's contracts?

[exstatic]

Besides Embiid got picked 3rd with a blown knee so him Flagg getting hurt isn’t that big a deal. He will still be a top 5 pick even if injured

And look at Embiid’s career injury rate. Teams might not be interested in going down that path. It probably doesn’t end well.

[Mr. Body]

I think Kenyon Martin went #1 overall even after getting hurt in college.

I mean, if I'm looking at playing next to a complete joke of a player in Lamello Ball and totally questionable players otherwise, with a bad coach, and a joke of a franchise overall in a city that doesn't give a shit about them in Charlotte, I see if my agent can force a trade or just go back to Duke. There's no big question here.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Anyone who thinks there's even a tiny chance that Flagg goes back to Duke is out of touch with reality. Even if he's that stupid there will be people in his entourage who'd advise him.

NIL money does change some things for players in the latter stages of the first/early second round though. Non seniors who are projected to go in the second round now have more leverage to demand guaranteed deals, instead of two-way contracts, so it messes up the order in the second round. Players aren't drafted based on a who is better order but on how they fit the specific team, which is why we're seeing so many trades with second round picks. In last season's draft only a couple of teams used their own second, which is wild.

For high/mid first round picks though NIL money shouldn't make a difference.

[John B]

Getting picked the #1 overall is in itself a huge honor and part of one’s legacy as a basketball player. I doubt an alpha would not grab that huge honor.

[Vienna]

Anyone who thinks there's even a tiny chance that Flagg goes back to Duke is out of touch with reality. Even if he's that stupid there will be people in his entourage who'd advise him.

NIL money does change some things for players in the latter stages of the first/early second round though. Non seniors who are projected to go in the second round now have more leverage to demand guaranteed deals, instead of two-way contracts, so it messes up the order in the second round. Players aren't drafted based on a who is better order but on how they fit the specific team, which is why we're seeing so many trades with second round picks. In last season's draft only a couple of teams used their own second, which is wild.

For high/mid first round picks though NIL money shouldn't make a difference.

totally agree. and people are ignoring one point: if Flagg plays this card, what guarrantee does he have, that 2026 he didn‘t end up with the same team, or even a worse situation. would he go back to school again? do this dance till he is 23? he will stay in the draft, no matter what team won the lottery.

[scott]

Anyone who thinks there's even a tiny chance that Flagg goes back to Duke is out of touch with reality. Even if he's that stupid there will be people in his entourage who'd advise him.

NIL money does change some things for players in the latter stages of the first/early second round though. Non seniors who are projected to go in the second round now have more leverage to demand guaranteed deals, instead of two-way contracts, so it messes up the order in the second round. Players aren't drafted based on a who is better order but on how they fit the specific team, which is why we're seeing so many trades with second round picks. In last season's draft only a couple of teams used their own second, which is wild.

For high/mid first round picks though NIL money shouldn't make a difference.


totally agree. and people are ignoring one point: if Flagg plays this card, what guarrantee does he have, that 2026 he didn‘t end up with the same team, or even a worse situation. would he go back to school again? do this dance till he is 23? he will stay in the draft, no matter what team won the lottery.

The point isn't for Flagg to actually go back to school and hope someone more to his liking is in a position to draft him next year, the point would be for him make it seem like a credible enough of a threat to force the team with the #1 pick to trade him to a destination more to his liking.

This will naturally result in a game of chicken, but it would somewhat damaging to the player's reputation, and if his bluff gets called then he's off to a bad start with his new team, so the stakes are high.

I don't think Flagg will be the guy to play this game, but I think we will see it play out for a Top 4 pick in the next few years.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The point isn't for Flagg to actually go back to school and hope someone more to his liking is in a position to draft him next year, the point would be for him make it seem like a credible enough of a threat to force the team with the #1 pick to trade him to a destination more to his liking.

This will naturally result in a game of chicken, but it would somewhat damaging to the player's reputation, and if his bluff gets called then he's off to a bad start with his new team, so the stakes are high.

I don't think Flagg will be the guy to play this game, but I think we will see it play out for a Top 4 pick in the next few years.

No, you're right. My comment was specifically about him going back to Duke if he didn't like the team lucking into #1, which some people think is a legit possibility.

Now, can he, or somebody in his position in the future, use some leverage to guide themselves to a different team via trade, sure. Definitely a possibility, but without knowing Flagg at all obviously, from everything I've heard from him I don't think he's that kinda guy. It could happen especially in drafts that have a few amazing prospects at the top, like 2026, but in this one where it's a clear cut number 1 it'd be almost impossible to balance a trade.

[mudyez]

I don't see Flagg doing this shit, but in an interview last summer, I got the feeling, that he could very well be a guy that forces a trade to a big market later on (he seemed in live with LA).

[LeBowen]

Name a better duo than NBA fans and imaginary scenarios based on no actual evidence. :lol

https://i.imgur.com/M6brkg0.jpeg

From a week ago.

[Ice009]

Getting picked the #1 overall is in itself a huge honor and part of one’s legacy as a basketball player. I doubt an alpha would not grab that huge honor.

For some, it might be a lot of pressure. I don't know if everyone wants to go number 1 (some might be more comfortable going 2 or 3). A true Alpha player who thinks he's the best would, but not everyone is made up that way. Just ask the guys that busted out who were picked number 1 if they liked the pressure and expectations that went along with it.
Cooper could also be a guy that doesn't care about that (nothing to do with the pressure in his case) and cares more about winning.

[Robz4000]

Starting to think that unless the Spurs end up in the top 4 or they're ready to trade Vassell/Keldon, they should trade their pick tbh. Draft Fleming with the Hawks' pick and work the FA market.

[John B]

Starting to think that unless the Spurs end up in the top 4 or they're ready to trade Vassell/Keldon, they should trade their pick tbh. Draft Fleming with the Hawks' pick and work the FA market.

It will be awhile before the Spurs will have another high pick of its own. I’d rather they swing big and possibly draft another core player along the same timeline as Wemby. Fox is 28 and will age out way before Wemby and Castle. The Spurs would need that potential 3rd option to eventually replace Fox.

[Robz4000]

It will be awhile before the Spurs will have another high pick of its own. I’d rather they swing big and possibly draft another core player along the same timeline as Wemby. Fox is 28 and will age out way before Wemby and Castle. The Spurs would need that potential 3rd option to eventually replace Fox.

Combine will prolly alter my opinion but as of now I'm not seeing any potential core players outside Kon or Johnson who will most likely be gone by the time the Spurs pick. If they can turn the #8 pick into a 203132 unprotected pick and swap again or better I'd be for it.

[John B]

For me the Spurs biggest need is a big body who can help Wemby against the Zubac’s and Jokic’s of the league. Any combinations of Queen, Sorber, Wolf, Fleming works for me. Queen, Sorber are both beast in the middle. Fleming is an athletic defensive big who can hit 3’s. Wolf is a 7 footer 250 facilitator who can hit 3’s and also led in rebounds and blocked shots.

Champ has done a wonderful job as Danny Green 3nD role. So taking Kon is nice but not a priority for me. I’d rather take Queen or Sorber with Spurs pick, and Fleming or Wolf with ATL’s pick. And a backup PG in the 2nd round. Vassell can play the Manu role or be traded.

Fox, CP3, Wesley, SRP
Castle, Vassell
Barnes/Champ, Keldon
Wemby, Fleming, Sochan,
Queen/Sorber/Wolf, Mamu, Bismack

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Here's some Kon propaganda:

https://i.postimg.cc/52vQq03g/Gnt-WK7-IXMAAy-U2m.jpg
Courtesy of Ben Pfeifer https://x.com/bjpf_


"Big time passes" subjectively qualified as "high level passes with respect to vision, anticipation, placement, usually tight window high value passes"

Top left is strictly play finishers
Bottom right are high level connectors / secondary creator potential

Wow! this is impressive. I underestimated Kon. Didn't know he is such a good passer.

[SpursBills]

With regards to Kon, I'm starting to see the vision. I definitely see the concerns - we'll see how he measures out at the combine, but I would prefer not to have him be the long term 3 as I don't think he offers enough length. He and Castle can probably survive as the 2-3 for the first couple years of their development, but if he were drafted I actually think he may offer enough playmaking to pair with Castle as the 1-2.

I don't think he's globally unathletic, as he moves decently well side to side, but the man's got no vertical pop (2! dunks on the entire season for a guy who's allegedly 6'7"). He compensates for it with pretty good finishing off of 2 feet but that pump fake move that he does is going to get scouted instantly in the league. One interesting comp for him which may reflect a potential pathway to success is Jared McCain. McCain also had a relatively short wingspan but a stockier build, high volume 3 point shooter, masked creation upside, and was a pretty good 2 foot finisher who utilized his strength to control guys on the dribble. He also lacked a certain amount of vertical pop (33" max vert, 2 dunks on the season). Kon is definitely bigger which gives him a physical advantage, but McCain (and Desmond Bane for that matter) seemed to have an exceptionally quick release which is an important micro-skill if you are trying to leverage your shooting.

The other hope with Kon is that he looks like he's still carrying a little bit of baby fat, although I'm not sure if that's just how he looks. You wonder if there are some athleticism gains that can be made.

Regardless, last year one of the draft avenues I was hoping for was to take McCain at #8 if the spurs took Castle at 4. If you see Kon as a bigger version of McCain who can also moonlight occasionally as a 3, that's a long term piece you can keep well beyond Fox's expiration date.

[cutewizard]

I'm good with Kon on the first pick and Fleming on the second.


..........
I'm leaning on this as well

[cutewizard]

Also Fleming plus Wolf is intriguing

[cutewizard]

Also Fleming plus Wolf is intriguing

[cutewizard]

https://youtu.be/rNniMOctM4k?si=Ox1I6k4ZKRyUh9Ff

[cutewizard]

https://youtu.be/LC1XmiSvRtw?si=_f3haBEWOgC8j2Y1

[CGD]

Danny Wolf is a second round pick yall.

[heyheymymy]

Yeah I cooled on Wolf. Still think he is super intriguing though.

[baseline bum]

Starting to think that unless the Spurs end up in the top 4 or they're ready to trade Vassell/Keldon, they should trade their pick tbh. Draft Fleming with the Hawks' pick and work the FA market.

FA market is pretty much just MLE, which will be used on CP3 if he stays.

[Gibbz]

We're picking too high for Wolf.

[objective]

Curious about measurements with Wolf

If that guy is really only 6-10, with like a 6-11 wingspan, that'll drop him.

7 foot is the magic hype number that sticks in people's heads.

[BackHome]

I think our first pick will be either Fears or Kon and Hawks pick if we don’t trade it will be Fleming or Bryant

[BacktoBasics]

I think our first pick will be either Fears or Kon and Hawks pick if we don’t trade it will be Fleming or Bryant

Im not as warm to Kon as most are but a Kon/Fleming draft would really address holes if both work out. I think Fears would interest me much more.

[Snaq O'Meal]

Also Fleming plus Wolf is intriguing

I'm not sold on Fleming or Wolf.

Fleming is rather one-dimensional in his offence. It's either spotting up for 3s or setting up at the dunker's spot. There's almost no shot creation or facilitation to set up Wemby or Fox.

Wolf is a big dude who does not play all that big. Good facilitator but also racks up lots of turnovers.

If you merge the two together, you'll get Yaxel Lendeborg: a good rebounder, defender and facilitator who shoots the 3 at an only slightly lower percentage than Fleming.

[ginobilized]

Only a month to wait for the lottery.

I'll have to trust the Spurs to pick with the same insight they used to get Castle. I'm as concerned about getting rid of current players as adding new ones.

If I had to pick today, it's Kon/Fleming & a wildcard 2nd rounder. If those 2 are not on the board either Fears, Tre Johnson or Murray-Boyles and Sorber or Bryant with the second pick. Condon might be useful with the 2nd round pick, but likely gone by then.
Maybe it's my bias against white guys with headbands, but, Liam McNeely doesn't seem worth either pick.

[mo7888]

I'm not sold on Fleming or Wolf.

Fleming is rather one-dimensional in his offence. It's either spotting up for 3s or setting up at the dunker's spot. There's almost no shot creation or facilitation to set up Wemby or Fox.

Wolf is a big dude who does not play all that big. Good facilitator but also racks up lots of turnovers.

If you merge the two together, you'll get Yaxel Lendeborg: a good rebounder, defender and facilitator who shoots the 3 at an only slightly lower percentage than Fleming.

I don't see any issue with Fleming, with the Atlanta pick, as being problematic. The things he does well, as you cited plus his Defensive potential, is good value at that point. If he could do, or had the potential to do, all of the things you just listed, then he be a top 5 or 6 guy in this draft. He projects as a solid role player with a fairly high floor and lower ceiling.

So, really, it depends on what you're looking for with that pick. If you want a guy ready to contribute early on then go with Fleming. If you prefer a higher ceiling, but lower floor guy, then go with Carter Bryant.

[rascal]

Only a month to wait for the lottery.

I'll have to trust the Spurs to pick with the same insight they used to get Castle. I'm as concerned about getting rid of current players as adding new ones.

If I had to pick today, it's Kon/Fleming & a wildcard 2nd rounder. If those 2 are not on the board either Fears, Tre Johnson or Murray-Boyles and Sorber or Bryant with the second pick. Condon might be useful with the 2nd round pick, but likely gone by then.
Maybe it's my bias against white guys with headbands, but, Liam McNeely doesn't seem worth either pick.

Spurs are higher on McNeeley than most in here are. I expect him to be drafted with one of the picks.

[scottspurs]

https://img.sportradar.com/ls/crest/big/3429.png


San Antonio SpursSouthwest Division
Team Info & Stats







Rank
spurs
league Avg


Team Bench Points per Game (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/3b081680-aa77-11ee-9b2a-fbb5c8aae8ca?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
1
44.1
35.5


Opp. FTA Per Game (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/becb5980-c929-11e8-865f-af54ac5e9936?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
3
18.5
21.7


Blocks Per Game (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/7295c790-c92d-11e8-8f6a-b17c0bda1166?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
4
5.5
4.9


Assists Per Game (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/8cfa69a0-c92e-11e8-8f6a-b17c0bda1166?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
6
28.6
26.5


Opp. Blocks Per Game (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/efb26f80-c92d-11e8-8f6a-b17c0bda1166?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
7
4.3
4.9


3PA Per Game (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/63d5aa10-dd1c-11e8-9c28-570a4b4507de?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
7
39.6
37.6


3PM Per Game (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/ef8b2810-dd1b-11e8-9c28-570a4b4507de?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
9
14.1
13.5


Fast Break Points Per Game (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/348e38e0-6707-11eb-99e1-07bad8e110a9?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
10
16.1
15.5


Turnovers Per Game (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/c67b7b60-c92e-11e8-8f6a-b17c0bda1166?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
10
13.9
14.3


Steals Per Game (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/4c692d40-c92e-11e8-865f-af54ac5e9936?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
12
8.2
8.2


2PT% (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/931c6080-c92a-11e8-865f-af54ac5e9936?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
15
.551
.545


Opp. Steals Per Game (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/817f58e0-c930-11e8-865f-af54ac5e9936?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
15t
8.1
8.2


Best Record - One-Possession Games (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/33c72f20-5e39-11ea-b11c-e58a9ee0ed6b?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
16t
.500
.500


Team Points per Game (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/995c4290-5cf7-11eb-9199-ed002ba9e83a?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
16
113.9
113.8


FG% (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/69688500-c84b-11e8-9719-97e053d31dff?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
17
.465
.467


Turnover Differential per Game (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/c0fecc50-5cfc-11eb-8482-75364efb27b0?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
17
-0.2
0.0


Offensive Rebounds Per Game (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/fcb9be30-c92e-11e8-865f-af54ac5e9936?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
17
10.9
11.1


Points in the Paint Per Game (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/8109b0a0-6707-11eb-99e1-07bad8e110a9?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
18
47.8
49.0


True Shooting % (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/90e0c4d0-4d0b-11ea-b4ad-41e5e9899a7b?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
19
.575
.576


Rebounds Per Game (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/a55b4c70-c92f-11e8-8f6a-b17c0bda1166?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
19
43.7
44.1


3PT% (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/1b1750f0-c84d-11e8-b78f-3586eea95558?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
20
.357
.360


Point Differential Per Game (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/4631a4d0-c92d-11e8-8f6a-b17c0bda1166?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
21
-2.8
0.0


FT% (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/fc5dfbe0-c929-11e8-865f-af54ac5e9936?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
21
.774
.780


Defensive Rebounds Per Game (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/276bcb80-c92c-11e8-8f6a-b17c0bda1166?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
21
32.7
33.0


FTA Per Game (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/c3ca4cd0-c928-11e8-865f-af54ac5e9936?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
21
21.0
21.7


Opp. Points Per Game (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/a8181070-c848-11e8-b78f-3586eea95558?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
23
116.7
113.8


Opp. Assists Per Game (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/e5789be0-c930-11e8-865f-af54ac5e9936?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
23
28.0
26.5


Opp. 2PT% (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/c7689750-c92a-11e8-865f-af54ac5e9936?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
23
.554
.545


Opp. 3PT% (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/4df72f00-c928-11e8-865f-af54ac5e9936?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
24
.365
.360


Opp. FG% (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/2d334860-c84e-11e8-b78f-3586eea95558?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
24
.474
.467


2nd Chance Points Per Game (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/65dfa640-6707-11eb-99e1-07bad8e110a9?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
25
12.6
14.1


Opp. FT% (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/59ca26f0-c92a-11e8-865f-af54ac5e9936?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
26
.790
.780


Opp. Defensive Rebounds Per Game (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/ce8dbea0-c92c-11e8-8f6a-b17c0bda1166?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
27
34.1
33.0


Rebound Differential per Game (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/48bf5bb0-5cf7-11eb-9199-ed002ba9e83a?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
27
-2.5
0.0


Opp. Offensive Rebounds Per Game (https://radar360.sportradar.com/nba/reports/2eff5a20-c930-11e8-865f-af54ac5e9936?778fd420-2ef5-11e8-af3a-37d0bee476b0=2024)
28
12.1
11.1



This is where the Spurs ended up in most important stats. It’s pretty clear they need to improve rebounding which will in turn improve their defense.

[mo7888]

Spurs are higher on McNeeley than most in here are. I expect him to be drafted with one of the picks.

I agree with this. The question is, how much he rises after individual workouts? Will we have to take him ar 8 or will the ATL pick get it done?

[CGD]

I agree with this. The question is, how much he rises after individual workouts? Will we have to take him ar 8 or will the ATL pick get it done?

McNeeley at 8 would be as good as any pick there. Depending on how you feel about Malauch, the draft m really nosedives at 7.


It’s why I’m not terribly sad about the ATL pick being where it (likely) will be.

[scottspurs]

Analytics deep dive


Defensive Bayesian Performance ranking among nba prospects


Defensive Bayesian Performance Rating reflects the defensive value a player brings to his team when he is on the court. This rating incorporates a player’s individual efficiency stats and on-court play-by-play impact, and also accounts for the defensive strength of other teammates on the floor with him, along with the offensive strength of the opponent’s players on the floor. DBPR is interpreted as the number of defensive points per 100 possessions better than (below) D1 average expected to be allowed by the player’s team if the player were on the court with 9 other average players. A higher rating is better.






Cooper Flagg - 4.26
Thomas Sorber - 4.19
Danny Wolf - 3.41
Alex Condon - 3.09
Derik Queen - 3.02
Johni Broome - 2.97
Collin Murray-Boyles - 2.78
Miles Byrd - 2.78
Ryan Kalbrenner - 2.76
Kon Knueppel - 2.65
Nique Clifford - 2.58
Vladislav Goldin - 2.55
Boogie Fland - 2.47
Sion James - 2.43
Carter Bryant - 2.36
Adou Thiero - 2.34
Khaman Maluach - 2.32
Milos Uzan - 2.27
Jase Richardson - 2.11
VJ Edgecombe - 2.08
Rasheer Fleming - 2.06
Kam Jones - 2.05
Walter Clayton - 2.05
Darrion Williams - 1.98
Liam Mcneely - 1.95





According to this particular analysis of defense for prospects these are the top 25 prospects when it comes to defense.


Notes


The top 2 defensive prospects in this class far and away are Flagg and Sorber according to this analysis.


Shocked by some of the names on here but one thing is clear. Rebounding matters. Derik Queen rates as an effective player on defense because of his rebounding. Same as Mcneely. 6 rpg from a wing is good. High IQ matters. Most would not consider Kon Knueppel a top 10 defensive player in this draft. Analytics say otherwise. You watch the film and he doesn’t stand out on that end but the numbers say otherwise.


Also pleasantly surprised to see two smaller players in particular on this list in Fland and Richardson.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/zhAnSsuE6XI?feature=shared

Most players don’t change too much of who they are from when they were in college. Don’t confuse that with me saying they don’t develop or become better players. You watch tape like this and you can identify really quick who Bassey is even if the video didn’t have him in the title. The reason I’m saying this is because a lot of folks project a lot onto players like Malauch and someone like Newell due to their physical characteristics.

I also don’t see the value in going for a player whose archetype is a dime a dozen. These 3 pt only shooter types like McNeeley may address a team need (which according to scottspurs it isn’t even a team need), but I don’t see him being any better than what Champagnie brings… and worse yet, knowing this coaching staff I don’t think he’s talented enough to beat Julian out from the rotation.

Anybody who is brought in has to either be definitely better than current rotation players or brings something else that would justify their minutes.

[BacktoBasics]

Analytics deep dive


Defensive Bayesian Performance ranking among nba prospects


Defensive Bayesian Performance Rating reflects the defensive value a player brings to his team when he is on the court. This rating incorporates a player’s individual efficiency stats and on-court play-by-play impact, and also accounts for the defensive strength of other teammates on the floor with him, along with the offensive strength of the opponent’s players on the floor. DBPR is interpreted as the number of defensive points per 100 possessions better than (below) D1 average expected to be allowed by the player’s team if the player were on the court with 9 other average players. A higher rating is better.






Cooper Flagg - 4.26
Thomas Sorber - 4.19
Danny Wolf - 3.41
Alex Condon - 3.09
Derik Queen - 3.02
Johni Broome - 2.97
Collin Murray-Boyles - 2.78
Miles Byrd - 2.78
Ryan Kalbrenner - 2.76
Kon Knueppel - 2.65
Nique Clifford - 2.58
Vladislav Goldin - 2.55
Boogie Fland - 2.47
Sion James - 2.43
Carter Bryant - 2.36
Adou Thiero - 2.34
Khaman Maluach - 2.32
Milos Uzan - 2.27
Jase Richardson - 2.11
VJ Edgecombe - 2.08
Rasheer Fleming - 2.06
Kam Jones - 2.05
Walter Clayton - 2.05
Darrion Williams - 1.98
Liam Mcneely - 1.95





According to this particular analysis of defense for prospects these are the top 25 prospects when it comes to defense.


Notes


The top 2 defensive prospects in this class far and away are Flagg and Sorber according to this analysis.


Shocked by some of the names on here but one thing is clear. Rebounding matters. Derik Queen rates as an effective player on defense because of his rebounding. Same as Mcneely. 6 rpg from a wing is good. High IQ matters. Most would not consider Kon Knueppel a top 10 defensive player in this draft. Analytics say otherwise. You watch the film and he doesn’t stand out on that end but the numbers say otherwise.


Also pleasantly surprised to see two smaller players in particular on this list in Fland and Richardson.

I find it hard to take this seriously with Queen up on that list. A traffic cone is a better defender.

[scottspurs]

I find it hard to take this seriously with Queen up on that list. A traffic cone is a better defender.
Rebounding matters. He helps any team he is on day 1 as a very good rebounder. Check the spurs rebounding numbers and it’s not hard to see that the spurs biggest weakness is getting the ball back into their possession.

[scottspurs]

https://youtu.be/zhAnSsuE6XI?feature=shared

Most players don’t change too much of who they are from when they were in college. Don’t confuse that with me saying they don’t develop or become better players. You watch tape like this and you can identify really quick who Bassey is even if the video didn’t have him in the title. The reason I’m saying this is because a lot of folks project a lot onto players like Malauch and someone like Newell due to their physical characteristics.

I also don’t see the value in going for a player whose archetype is a dime a dozen. These 3 pt only shooter types like McNeeley may address a team need (which according to scottspurs (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17106) it isn’t even a team need), but I don’t see him being any better than what Champagnie brings… and worse yet, knowing this coaching staff I don’t think he’s talented enough to beat Julian out from the rotation.

Anybody who is brought in has to either be definitely better than current rotation players or brings something else that would justify their minutes.

If you look at the numbers shooting is luxury for the Spurs. What they need is defense and rebounding. The Spurs will be picking in the lottery again next year if they don’t rebound a lot better.

[scottspurs]

Analytics deep dive 2




Box DBPR: Box Defensive Bayesian Performance Rating is an estimate of a player’s defensive value, based only on his individual box stats. This serves as a prior starting point when calculating DBPR.



Top Box DBPR players in this draft class




Johni Broome - 3.53
Collin Murray-Boyles - 2.93
Cooper Flagg - 2.88
Carter Bryant - 2.71
Danny Wolf - 2.65
Labaron Philon - 2.65
Alex Condon - 2.62
Miles Byrd - 2.58
VJ Edgecombe - 2.54
Adou Thiero - 2.44
Trevon Brazile - 2.31
Ryan Kalkbrenner- 2.28
Derik Queen - 2.27
Vladislav Goldin - 2.23
Thomas Sorber - 2.21
Jeremiah Fears - 2.00
Walter Clayton - 1.92
Chaz Lanier - 1.91
Asa Newell - 1.87
Tahaad Pettifoed - 1.79
Khaman Maluach - 1.75
Dylan Harper - 1.74
Maxime Raynaud - 1.67
Darrion Williams - 1.65
Koby Brea - 1.59



This is a defensive analysis that is based solely off the box score and rates these players as the top defensive prospects in this class. I don’t take this analysis model very seriously because it doesn’t factor in a lot but it’s still interesting to look at. Taking notes of the guys like Flagg and Murray-Boyles that keep showing up at the top of these analytics defensively

[cutewizard]

Wemby
Fox
Castle

-------------------------

Fleming
Wolf

-----------------------

Reid
Cameron.....

------------------------

Barnes
Champagne

[Dejounte]

Been watching CMB more and I’m afraid I have to drop him a bit down again. His offense is more rudimentary than I realized— the way he scores reminds me very much of Keldon. He drives seeking physical contact (not a bad thing in itself) but when he throws it up it almost looks like a prayer every time. He may be exceptional on defense but if his offense is as basic as it appears then I think next year’s offense won’t be significantly improved.


Tier 1 - No brainer
Flagg
Harper


Tier 2 - Exciting picks
Kon
Jase Richardson
Sorber
Queen


Tier 3 - Talented, but I have serious concerns
VJ Edgecombe
Fleming
Bailey
Tre Johnson
Saraf


Tier 4 - Talented, but the fit is terrible
CMB
Wolf


Tier 5 - High risk, high reward
Carter Bryant
Demin
DeLarrea
Hugo
Noa


Tier 6 - Safe picks
Riley
Kasparas
Fears


Tier 7 - Meh
Asa Newell
Traore
Malauch


Tier 8 - Bust
McNeeley

[cutewizard]

Wemby
Fox
Castle

-------------------------

Fleming
Wolf

-----------------------

Reid
Cameron.....

------------------------

Barnes
Champagne

>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is already a complete deck guys

we can start The Beautiful Game 2.0 2025 Edition

[cutewizard]

Wemby at center
Reid and Cameron at forward
Fox and Castle at guard

---------------------------------------
Wolf
Barnes
Fleming
CP3/Wesley
Champagne

----------------------------

Biyombo
Mamu....!!!!
Minix, plus others

[scottspurs]

Analytics Deep Dive 3




Adj Team Def Eff: Team defensive efficiency (points allowed by opponent per 100 possessions) with player on the court, adjusted for strength of opponent players faced. A lower value is better.



This analysis is based on how well a team’s defense plays when they are on the floor. Doesn’t necessarily mean any of these guys are high level defenders but they are playing well enough within their role to be effective.


Top Defensive Team Efficiency Players prospects in this draft




Milos Uzan - 82.0
Cooper Flagg - 82.8
Sion James - 83.0
Kon Knueppel- 84.3
Tyrese Proctor - 85.0
Chaz Lanier - 85.4
Thomas Sorber - 85.9
Khaman Maluach - 85.9
Alex Condon - 86.1
Danny Wolf - 86.2
Derik Queen - 86.7
Walter Clayton - 86.9
Jase Richardson - 87.4
Vladislav Goldin - 88.0
Boogie Fland - 88.1
Adou Thiero - 88.3
Kam Jones - 89.0
Johni Broome - 89.3
Isaiah Evans - 90.1
Miles Byrd - 90.4
Tahaad Pettiford - 91.2
Ryan Kalkbrenner - 91.8
Liam Mcneely - 92.0
Nique Clifford - 92.3
Darrion Williams - 92.7





Not surprisingly players from Duke and Houston made it high on this list because they were apart of the best defenses in the country. Main takeaway I get from this is that these type of players may not have as big of a learning curve when learning how to play defense in the NBA.

[mo7888]

McNeeley at 8 would be as good as any pick there. Depending on how you feel about Malauch, the draft m really nosedives at 7.


It’s why I’m not terribly sad about the ATL pick being where it (likely) will be.
Well, I've got McNeely 6 on my Spurs board in the 3rd tier. So unless someone higher falls, I'd be happy taking him there. We cpuld do worse than a McNeely/ Fleming or McNeely/Bryant draft

[scottspurs]

Analytics Deep Dive 4


Defense Rating - measure of how many points a player gives up per 100 possessions


Top players in defensive rating in this draft class lower score is better. This is a good stat for on ball defense




Jojo Tugler 87.0
Cooper Flagg - 89.5
Derik Queen - 92.4
Miles Byrd - 93.7
Khaman Maluach - 94.3
Johni Broome - 94.8
Rasheer Fleming - 95.0
Nique Clifford - 96.1
Alex Condon - 96.1
Danny Wolf - 96.1
Thomas Sorber - 96.7
Sion James - 96.8
Kobe Johnson - 96.9
Trevon Brazile - 98.6
Milos Uzan - 98.7
Kon Knueppel - 98.8
Coleman Hawkins - 99.0
Adou Thiero - 99.2
Ryan Kalkbrenner - 99.4
Vladislav Goldin - 100.0
Carter Bryant - 100.1
Jase Richardson - 100.3
Collin Murray-Boyles - 100.4
Yaxel Lendeborg - 100.7
VJ Edgecombe - 102.5



I’m pretty sure JoJo Tugler is going back to school but I wanted to mention him because he was at the top of all these defensive analytics. He was the driving force behind Houston’s great defense and may be someone to watch in next years draft. One of the best on ball defensive players college basketball has ever seen according to the numbers. A lot of these analytics can be deceiving but he is the real deal.

[Ditty]

Knueppel just seems like a player that BW would love.

He seems to like them bigger guards (Vassell, Primo, Castle).

I would love a Knueppel and Fleming combination if they are on the board.

[scottspurs]

Analytics Deep Dive 5


If defense is not your thing and you just want the spurs to score points (despite defense and rebounding being the clear need) maybe a look at the best offensive prospects will catch your attention.


Offensive rating is the estimate of points produced by a player per 100 possessions.


These are the top players from this draft class in offensive Rating




Khaman Maluach - 147.3
Cedric Coward - 135.2
Kon Knueppel - 133.7
Ryan Kalkbrenner - 132.7
Jase Richardson - 132.0
Asa Newell - 131.5
Sion James - 131.1
Koby Brea - 130.1
John Tonje - 128.2
Yaxel Lendeborg - 127.3
Cooper Flagg - 126.3
Isaiah Evans - 125.4
Walter Clayton Jr. - 124.4
Joan Beringer - 124.0
Rasheer Fleming - 123.9
Alex Condon - 122.8
Milos Uzan - 122.0
Johni Broome - 121.7
Vladislav Goldin - 121.5
Trevon Brazile - 120.9
Adou Thiero - 120.6
Collin Murray-Boyles - 119.6
Eric Dixon - 119.5
Kam Jones - 119.4
Mark Sears - 119.4
Nique Clifford - 119.2
VJ Edgecombe - 119.1
Dylan Harper - 118.1
Will Riley - 118.0
Kobe Johnson 118.0
Chaz Lanier - 117.2
Derik Queen - 117.0
Labaron Philon - 116.8
Darrion Williams - 116.8
Jaxson Robinson - 116.7
Carter Bryant - 116.5
Sergio De Larrea - 115.6
Hansen Yang - 115.5
Tre Johnson - 115.1
Tahaad Pettiford - 115.1



These are the top 40


Some notes. The centers are outliers so I wouldn’t look to far into their high ratings because they mostly rate high because of their high efficiency


Disappointing not seeing Liam Mcneely or Ace Bailey on this list at all. Has to worry you a little that they rate so bad offensively. Bailey kind of gets a pass because he had bad coaching on a bad team but Mcneely played for one of the best coaches in the country.

[ixiXSolidXixi]

Knueppel just seems like a player that BW would love.

He seems to like them bigger guards (Vassell, Primo, Castle).

I would love a Knueppel and Fleming combination if they are on the board.
Possibly Knueppel but I think Spurs like players that play at both ends of the floor. The only player I see right now is Collin Murray Boyles.

[scottspurs]

Analytics Deep Dive 6




OBPR: Offensive Bayesian Performance Rating reflects the offensive value a player brings to his team when he is on the court. This rating incorporates a player’s individual efficiency stats and on-court play-by-play impact, and also accounts for the offensive strength of other teammates on the floor with him, along with the defensive strength of the opponent’s players on the floor. OBPR is interpreted as the number of offensive points per 100 possessions above D1 average expected by the player’s team if the player were on the court with 9 other average players. A higher rating is better.



These are the top offensive players in this draft class according to OBPR




Cooper Flagg - 6.48
Johni Broome - 6.16
Kam Jones - 5.45
Kon Knueppel - 5.23
Ryan Nembhard - 5.18
Mark Sears - 5.17
Walter Clayton - 5.14
Isaiah Evans - 5.08
Tyrese Proctor - 4.95
Darrion Williams - 4.95
Eric Dixon - 4.74
Will Riley - 4.59
Tahaad Pettiford - 4.59
Nique Clifford - 4.44
Alex Karaban - 4.29
Koby Brea - 4.28
Yaxel Lendeborg - 4.22
Khaman Maluach - 4.19
Sion James - 4.19
Ryan Kalkbrenner - 3.94
Dylan Harper - 3.90
Alex Condon - 3.88
Milos Uzan - 3.86
Jeremiah Fears - 3.75
John Tonje - 3.73
Egor Denim - 3.72
Labaron Philon - 3.67
Jase Richardson - 3.57
Kasparas Jakucionis - 3.21
Derik Queen - 3.19
Carter Bryant - 3.12
Collin Murray-Boyles - 3.05
Chaz Lanier - 2.96
Ace Bailey - 2.79
Vladislav Goldin - 2.79
Tre Johnson - 2.77
Asa Newell - 2.76
Rasheer Fleming - 2.72
Boogie Fland - 2.71
Vj Edgecombe - 2.66



Top 40


I think some of these guys are outliers that were good college scorers but wont make it in the NBA. That said I think it’s a decent barometer of offensive talent without factoring in talent/skill and ability for growth. Once again no Liam Mcneely is eye popping.

[Mr. Body]

Possibly Knueppel but I think Spurs like players that play at both ends of the floor. The only player I see right now is Collin Murray Boyles.

Eh, Knueppel was widely seen as a good defender despite athletic limitations and VJ Edgecombe stands to be a very good defender also with nice offensive potential.

[scottspurs]

Analytics Deep Dive 7




Box OBPR: Box Offensive Bayesian Performance Rating is an estimate of a player’s offensive value, based only on his individual box stats. This serves as a prior starting point when calculating OBPR.



So basically factors in best offense players based on bottom line box scores and not much else


Here are they top players from this class




Cooper Flagg - 6.97
Johni Broome - 6.15
Mark Sears - 5.73
Kon Knueppel - 5.65
Ryan Nembhard - 5.63
Walter Clayton - 5.07
Darrion Williams - 5.03
Kam Jones - 5.02
John Tonje - 4.87
Eric Dixon - 4.81
Tahaad Pettiford - 4.73
Nique Clifford - 4.67
Tyrese Proctor - 4.67
Labaron Philon - 4.65
Sion James - 4.51
Khaman Maluach - 4.45
Ryan Kalkbrenner - 4.43
Alex Condon - 4.37
Alex Karaban - 4.20
Koby Brea - 4.19
Jaxson Robinson - 4.17
Egor Denim - 4.08
Chaz Lanier - 4.03
VJ Edgecombe - 4.03
Isaiah Evans - 4.01
Asa Newell - 4.00
Jeremiah Fears - 3.92
Boogie Fland - 3.90
Jase Richardson - 3.87
Will Riley - 3.85
Dylan Harper - 3.72
Yaxel Lendeborg - 3.69
Liam McNeely - 3.67
Milos Uzan - 3.63
Kasparas Jakucionis - 3.61
Vladislav Goldin - 3.60
Tre Johnson - 3.57
Danny Wolf - 3.46
Kobe Johnson - 3.36
Adou Thiero - 3.23



Top 40


Once again plenty of outliers that won’t make it in NBA but Liam Mcneely finally showed up on an offensive analysis so that’s good I guess. I do find it impressive for these freshman that keep showing up on these lists.

[scottspurs]

Analytics Deep Dive 8


Maybe you just want the Spurs to draft the most well rounded players that will help the team as a whole on offense and defense.




BPR: Bayesian Performance Rating is the sum of a player’s OBPR and DBPR. This rating is the ultimate measure of a player’s overall value to his team when he is on the floor. BPR is interpreted as the number of points per 100 possessions better than the opponent the player’s team is expected to be if the player were on the court with 9 other average players. A higher rating is better.



This rates players based on their overall impact.


These are the top players in this class according to this analysis




Cooper Flagg - 10.74
Johni Broome - 9.14
Kon Knueppel - 7.88
Kam Jones - 7.50
Walter Clayton - 7.19
Nique Clifford - 7.02
Alex Condon - 6.97
Darrion Williams - 6.93
Tyrese Proctor - 6.88
Ryan Kalkbrenner - 6.70
Sion James - 6.62
Ryan Nembhard - 6.58
Khaman Maluach - 6.52
Derik Queen - 6.51
Mark Sears - 6.16
Milos Uzan - 6.13
Danny Wolf - 6.03
Collin Murray-Boyles - 5.83
Yaxel Lendeborg - 5.79
Jase Richardson - 5.68








Kobe Johnson - 5.66
John Tonje - 5.56
Carter Bryant - 5.48
Will Riley - 5.41
Tahaad Pettiford - 5.37
Vladislav Goldin - 5.33
Thomas Sorber - 5.29
Alex Karaban - 5.28
Eric Dixon - 5.26
Boogie Fland - 5.18
Labaron Philon - 5.04
Adou Thiero - 4.95
Egor Denim - 4.85
Rasheer Fleming - 4.78
Jaxson Robinson - 4.78
VJ Edgecombe - 4.74
Jeremiah Fears - 4.71
Chaz Lanier - 4.70
Coleman Hawkins - 4.65
Dylan Harper - 4.63









Liam Mcneely - 4.51
Ace Bailey - 4.45
Miles Byrd - 4.33
Kasparas Jakucionis - 4.24
Koby Brea - 4.20
Asa Newell - 3.92
Xavian Lee - 3.77
Tre Johnson - 3.73
Hunter Sallis - 3.23
Maxime Raynaud - 3.15






top 50 in BPR

I think this as a good barometer for the most pro ready prospects. I could see any one of the top 1/3 of these guys making an all rookie team with the exception of Mark Sears. Although he could be a high level G League guy.


The 2nd third of players could go either way but obviously need some development. Could also be pro ready depending on fit


The 3rd set you may need to temper your expectations because they may need more time to develop. Guys like Ace Bailey, Asa Newell, Tre Johnson and Maxime Raynaud are extremely talented but may need more development to reach their potential

[scottspurs]

Analytics deep dive 9


Maybe you would like the Spurs to draft the most efficient players


These are the top players according to the Player Efficiency Rankings. An overall spectrum for how efficient a player is factoring in both sides of the ball. Player efficiency Rating measures a players per-minute performance, while adjusting for pace. (League Average is 15.0)




Johni Broome - 30.9
Cooper Flagg - 30.4
Yaxel Lendeborg - 29.8
Ryan Kalkbrenner - 29.1
Collin Murray-Boyles - 27.8
Asa Newell - 26.1
Cedric Coward - 26.0
Vladislav Goldin - 25.7
Eric Dixon - 25.7
Maxime Raynaud - 25.6
Khaman Maluach - 25.5
Nique Clifford - 25.1
Adou Thiero - 25.1
John Tonje - 24.8
Derik Queen - 24.7
Thomas Sorber - 24.7
Dylan Harper - 24.6
Kam Jones - 24.5
Rasheer Fleming - 24.1
Alex Condon - 22.8
Xavian Lee - 22.7
Vj Edgecombe - 22.1
Walter Clayton Jr. - 21.6
Darrion Williams - 21.6
Kon Knueppel - 21.3
Jase Richardson - 20.7
Jeremiah Fears - 20.7



Top 27 players in PER


These are the most efficient prospects. I think any Freshman that’s on this list it bodes well for them that they are so efficient at a young age. Any upperclassmen I don’t think it says much other than they were good college players. Pretty much all the prospects that are considered 1st rounders grade over 15.0 which is league average so no concerns there.

[scottspurs]

Analytics deep Dive 10


Final analytics research I’ll do for now. One of the best barometers in all of sports to determine how much a player will help you win is win shares


These are the top win shares per 40 minutes. An estimate of number of wins a player generates per 40 minutes (the amount of minutes played in college basketball)




Cooper Flagg - .296
Khaman Maluach - .261
Johni Broome - .250
Ryan Kalkbrenner - .235
Kon Knueppel - .232
Yaxel Lendeborg - .228
John Tonje - .222
Nique Clifford - .220
Asa Newell - .217
Derik Queen - .216
Jase Richardson - .211
Walter Clayton - .205
Rasheer Fleming - .205
Sion James - .205
Adou Thiero - .205
Vladislav Goldin - .204
Alex Condon - .204
Cedric Coward - .202
Kam Jones - .202
Collin Murray-Boyles - .200



These are the only 20 prospects that broke the .200 threshold. They are multi-faceted players that contribute to winning. Doesn’t always mean they will be good pros but it’s a good stat to measure a players competitiveness. Players that contribute in multiple ways because they are active.

[Dejounte]

Thanks for sharing scottspurs. Glad most of my eye tests match the metrics

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/7BCAocyjNYw?feature=shared

I’ve been refreshing myself on how Timmy played in college and early years and I wonder if he were to come out today (and not change anything with his play style) if people here would easily dismiss him because he doesn’t look like he defends much out on the perimeter or shoot 3’s often.

[spurraider21]

https://youtu.be/7BCAocyjNYw?feature=shared

I’ve been refreshing myself on how Timmy played in college and early years and I wonder if he were to come out today (and not change anything with his play style) if people here would easily dismiss him because he doesn’t look like he defends much out on the perimeter or shoot 3’s often.
well yeah duncan would be a center today. you are looking at an era where most team basically started 2 guys that played like centers, and just referred to the shorter one of the two as their power forward

[Dejounte]

well yeah duncan would be a center today. you are looking at an era where most team basically started 2 guys that played like centers, and just referred to the shorter one of the two as their power forward

Duncan being a center today matters very little if we’re looking at it from the Spurs perspective and what they should do. So what if he is? He’s a legend. You figure out how to play both. Tim Duncan rebirthed would figure out how to do that. Are you saying they can’t be a better version of what Jarrett Allen and Evan Mobley is today? Kind of ridiculous to pass up on Tim Duncan because of fit concerns.

This post pretty much confirms Tim wouldn’t go #1 (despite all the talent he has) because of his style being perceived as not being tailor suited for specific teams. In reality, his talent should supersede everything else and it should be a no brainer to draft him no matter what team construction you have.

[Dejounte]

The crazy thing is, a lot of Duncan’s highlight videos do not show much that pop off the screen. With Duncan, you “had to be there” to experience his greatness. Today’s media frenzy and hoop fans who go crazy over flash vs substance would for sure cause him to be drafted later than he should. Flagg probably would be drafted over him even if people knew what Duncan was destined for greatness, which is absolutely crazy. You’d really have to take your time and watch him, and not just be amazed by athleticism or some surface level factor. It’s why I can appreciate what Sorber brings to the table, and why I’m glad the metrics scottspurs (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17106) provided supports it.

[spurraider21]

Duncan being a center today matters very little if we’re looking at it from the Spurs perspective and what they should do. So what if he is? He’s a legend. You figure out how to play both. Tim Duncan rebirthed would figure out how to do that. Are you saying they can’t be a better version of what Jarrett Allen and Evan Mobley is today? Kind of ridiculous to pass up on Tim Duncan because of fit concerns.

This post pretty much confirms Tim wouldn’t go #1 (despite all the talent he has) because of his style being perceived as not being tailor suited for specific teams. In reality, his talent should supersede everything else and it should be a no brainer to draft him no matter what team construction you have.
Wait when did i say I’d pass on him :lol

im all for taking clear BPA over fit. I’ve said it take Harper over Bailey/VJ even though the fit is much less obvious

i like Sorber as well I’m just lower on him than you. I think the hawks are likely to take him with the kings pick fwiw

[Dejounte]

Wait when did i say I’d pass on him :lol

im all for taking clear BPA over fit. I’ve said it take Harper over Bailey/VJ even though the fit is much less obvious

i like Sorber as well I’m just lower on him than you. I think the hawks are likely to take him with the kings pick fwiw

I said: “people here would easily dismiss him…”

you said: “well yeah…”

what’s the well yeah in response to?

[exstatic]

I said: “people here would easily dismiss him…”

you said: “well yeah…”

what’s the well yeah in response to?

Maybe it’s an agreement with your statement?

[Dejounte]

Maybe it’s an agreement with your statement?

Well yeah…? ;)

[cutewizard]

What if we pick number 2 or number 4 in the draft?

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zo8MhtTz9U

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Wemby at center
Reid and Cameron at forward
Fox and Castle at guard

---------------------------------------
Wolf
Barnes
Fleming
CP3/Wesley
Champagne

----------------------------

Biyombo
Mamu....!!!!
Minix, plus others

This will be my dream line up except replace Wolf with Kon.
Trade Vassel for Cameron; sign Naz and send Keldon and Brahnam out for cash;
Sign A back up center with minimum, such as Brook Lopez.

This will be a championship contender.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Analytics deep Dive 10


Final analytics research I’ll do for now. One of the best barometers in all of sports to determine how much a player will help you win is win shares

Thank you Scottspurs for the nice analytics!


These are the top win shares per 40 minutes. An estimate of number of wins a player generates per 40 minutes (the amount of minutes played in college basketball)




Cooper Flagg - .296
Khaman Maluach - .261
Johni Broome - .250
Ryan Kalkbrenner - .235
Kon Knueppel - .232
Yaxel Lendeborg - .228
John Tonje - .222
Nique Clifford - .220
Asa Newell - .217
Derik Queen - .216
Jase Richardson - .211
Walter Clayton - .205
Rasheer Fleming - .205
Sion James - .205
Adou Thiero - .205
Vladislav Goldin - .204
Alex Condon - .204
Cedric Coward - .202
Kam Jones - .202
Collin Murray-Boyles - .200



These are the only 20 prospects that broke the .200 threshold. They are multi-faceted players that contribute to winning. Doesn’t always mean they will be good pros but it’s a good stat to measure a players competitiveness. Players that contribute in multiple ways because they are active.

[Vienna]

The expectations some have of Fleming are almost grotesque.
Yes, everyone is looking for a big man who's athletic and can also shoot, and this draft has little to offer in that regard.
But Fleming as a lottery pick? Really?
He's a third-year player who's still only the #3 option for his team, a mediocre team that plays in a mediocre conference and never saw the tour.
Decent stats, but open 3s and dunks over third-rate college kids are perhaps not the highest bar after all.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KspgzllNgkA

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh4tC7qY8ng

[cutewizard]

Guys, this guy, Yaxel., is worth a second look....he is versatile at 6'9

[Mr. Body]

The expectations some have of Fleming are almost grotesque.
Yes, everyone is looking for a big man who's athletic and can also shoot, and this draft has little to offer in that regard.
But Fleming as a lottery pick? Really?
He's a third-year player who's still only the #3 option for his team, a mediocre team that plays in a mediocre conference and never saw the tour.
Decent stats, but open 3s and dunks over third-rate college kids are perhaps not the highest bar after all.

Yuuuuuup.

[spurraider21]

I said: “people here would easily dismiss him…”

you said: “well yeah…”

what’s the well yeah in response to?
thats fair, i should have been more careful with the response

the "well yeah" was relative to you pointing out that he doesnt defend the perimeter all that much. which would be something notable in today's NBA. the thing is, he'd be a dominant center in today's NBA, something between Embiid/AD as far as interior dominance.

you could overlook all kinds of warts if you are getting an all-time talent obviously

[Knoxxx]

Yaxel is fine if he even stays in the draft, but we need to remind that Fleming has a 7' 5" wingspan. Just because he played in a JV league doesn't change that. You can't coach length and players with length and shooting are on too short of supply on current SAS roster.

[exstatic]

Yaxel is fine if he even stays in the draft, but we need to remind that Fleming has a 7' 5" wingspan. Just because he played in a JV league doesn't change that. You can't coach length and players with length and shooting are on too short of supply on current SAS roster.

I think this is spot on thinking. Both Rodman and Scotty Pippin weren’t even D1 players. scouting wasn’t as good back then,and analytics were non existent. Even so, both players were selected at positions that would be first rounders today, #5 and #27.

[RC_Drunkford]

Fleming also played for a terrible team. Very talented squad, but overall bad from what I heard

[Mr. Body]

Yaxel is fine if he even stays in the draft, but we need to remind that Fleming has a 7' 5" wingspan. Just because he played in a JV league doesn't change that. You can't coach length and players with length and shooting are on too short of supply on current SAS roster.

Giraffes have long wingspans. Squid have long wingspans. C'mon. He could be good, but let's stop drafting people's bodies. It's completely senseless.

[exstatic]

Giraffes have long wingspans. Squid have long wingspans. C'mon. He could be good, but let's stop drafting people's bodies. It's completely senseless.

It’s something nearly every team looks for, and sees as a positive. It’s seen as a multiplier on defense, increasing steals, deflections, and blocks. Rasheed is 6’9” with a 7’5” wingspan. For the mathematically challenged, that’s a +8. That’s bigger than Kawhi’s +7.

You don’t draft him because he’s a +8. You draft him because he’s A +8 and can shoot,rebound, steal, and block shots.

[John B]

I’d take Fleming with ATL pick and either Queen/Sorber with Spurs own pick. Right now I just want Wemby to have as much help in the paint, rebounding, blocking shots, putting body on big people.

[scott]

Unless we jump up, I'm not expecting much of an immediate contribution next season of whoever we draft. Both a sign of the quality of this class and the quality of the team. Late lotto picks shouldn't be able to immediately crack the rotation of a good team, and we're inching our way ever closer to being one of those. It's a good sign.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Yaxel is fine if he even stays in the draft, but we need to remind that Fleming has a 7' 5" wingspan. Just because he played in a JV league doesn't change that. You can't coach length and players with length and shooting are on too short of supply on current SAS roster.

You got it. We cannot discount Fleming's shooting because of his age. How many guys can be good shooters after 4 years in NBA? Look at Sochan, Blake, Zach Collins, Tre Jones. The waitting has been so frustrating.

Fleming has made nearly five 3s per game. This kind of volume has a high chance of translating in to NBA.

We cannot afford to draft and develop non-shooting guys anymore unless somebody has all other skills except shooting, such as Castle or Kawhi.

This off season we need to draft good shooters sign or trade at least one.

[Mr. Body]

It’s something nearly every team looks for, and sees as a positive. It’s seen as a multiplier on defense, increasing steals, deflections, and blocks. Rasheed is 6’9” with a 7’5” wingspan. For the mathematically challenged, that’s a +8. That’s bigger than Kawhi’s +7.

You don’t draft him because he’s a +8. You draft him because he’s A +8 and can shoot,rebound, steal, and block shots.

That's exactly why bad teams fail draft after draft.

No one gives a shit about a couple extra inches wingspan once they start playing. This is amateur stuff.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

It’s something nearly every team looks for, and sees as a positive. It’s seen as a multiplier on defense, increasing steals, deflections, and blocks. Rasheed is 6’9” with a 7’5” wingspan. For the mathematically challenged, that’s a +8. That’s bigger than Kawhi’s +7.

You don’t draft him because he’s a +8. You draft him because he’s A +8 and can shoot,rebound, steal, and block shots.

This is another example I love to read your posts!

Fleming has a Spur written all over him. Problem is that he may be gone by the time we pick at 13 or 14. Hopefully teams before us all pick for highest possible ceiling. For us, we really need a role player like him.

Wemby, Fox and castle next year will generate tons of open 3s next season. Think about that and then the front office will draft accordingly.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Unless we jump up, I'm not expecting much of an immediate contribution next season of whoever we draft. Both a sign of the quality of this class and the quality of the team. Late lotto picks shouldn't be able to immediately crack the rotation of a good team, and we're inching our way ever closer to being one of those. It's a good sign.

Kon can contribute immediately. Fleming can likely crack the rotation by the 2nd half of the season. Then they will get playoff experience next year and step up for championship run next next season.

[LeBowen]

Kon can contribute immediately. Fleming can likely crack the rotation by the 2nd half of the season. Then they will get playoff experience next year and step up for championship run next next season.

Who's the odd man out if we get Kon?
I think this season has shown us Barnes should be kept as a starter because of his elite shooting, but that we need a bigger PF and he should be moved to SF.
Assuming him and Castle start, there are still Devin and Keldon on the roster. And even Champagnie if we're talking SG/SF shooters.

I want to get rid of at least one of Devin/Keldon, but I don't think it's likely.
If we keep everyone in the current rotation, we need a 6'9-6'11 PF, backup PG and backup C.

[itzsoweezee]

I’d take Fleming with ATL pick and either Queen/Sorber with Spurs own pick. Right now I just want Wemby to have as much help in the paint, rebounding, blocking shots, putting body on big people.

Yup. This team is severely lacking in physicality.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Who's the odd man out if we get Kon?
I think this season has shown us Barnes should be kept as a starter because of his elite shooting, but that we need a bigger PF and he should be moved to SF.
Assuming him and Castle start, there are still Devin and Keldon on the roster. And even Champagnie if we're talking SG/SF shooters.

I want to get rid of at least one of Devin/Keldon, but I don't think it's likely.
If we keep everyone in the current rotation, we need a 6'9-6'11 PF, backup PG and backup C.

Devin will need to be traded. Keldon can be traded if someone like Naz Reid or John Collins really wants to play with Wemby.

[The Truth #6]

Two picks. I'd like a young guard with skills, especially shooting, and upside. Kon and Jase look appealing here. A big man for the ATL pick makes sense to me. Lots of options here including Fleming. If Queen was still around he would be intriguing, Sorber as well.

In defense of Fleming, to me it's the archetype and specific skills plus physical attributes: great athlete, great measurements, defensive numbers. and 3P shooting numbers. Reducing his appeal to wingspan is also stupid.

Rambling further, Fleming is likely a much worse overall talent compared to say Queen. But since we are trying to find a power forward to play next to the most talented 7 footer of all time, we need specific skills that balance out Wemby so he continue to develop his game without being overwhelmed with compensating for others deficiencies. Queen would have lots of promise on offense but could be a disaster in space on defense.

Lots of ways to look at this. including fit. Fleming could suck but that's true for lots of players, especially in a potentially weak draft.

[The Truth #6]

Not to oversimplify in a different way, but if we had Barnes camped out in a corner, Fleming camped out in another corner, and were perfectly fine with that, then that's a lot of room for Fox, Castle, and Wemby to work in on offense.

A power forward who can shoot and defend, whoever that is, could really unlock Wemby's game even further. Working around Wemby should be the goal.

[objective]

I'm late to the discussion, but is there a case against Carter Bryant? I've only seen a couple of highlight videos but he looks like an ideal project SF. Listed at 6-8 and looks legit, I'd be surprised if wasn't at least 6-7.

Great athlete, makes his 3s at 37% albeit low volume, gets blocks and steals, already very strong. Old for a freshman, sure.

Looks like a good gamble for a complementary role player who can finish plays for the heavy usage ball handlers in Wemby, Fox and Castle

[Dejounte]

Not to oversimplify in a different way, but if we had Barnes camped out in a corner, Fleming camped out in another corner, and were perfectly fine with that, then that's a lot of room for Fox, Castle, and Wemby to work in on offense.

A power forward who can shoot and defend, whoever that is, could really unlock Wemby's game even further. Working around Wemby should be the goal.

That’s making our rebounding woes even worse. Did folks here forget that rebounding is part of basketball? Brehhhhh

[Dejounte]

Who's the odd man out if we get Kon?
I think this season has shown us Barnes should be kept as a starter because of his elite shooting, but that we need a bigger PF and he should be moved to SF.
Assuming him and Castle start, there are still Devin and Keldon on the roster. And even Champagnie if we're talking SG/SF shooters.

I want to get rid of at least one of Devin/Keldon, but I don't think it's likely.
If we keep everyone in the current rotation, we need a 6'9-6'11 PF, backup PG and backup C.

Nah, Barnes can’t play SF as much anymore. He’s clearly phasing into the next chapter of his career into a PF. He’s lost a step and is now more suited to play the PF role. This happens to a lot of players.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

I'm late to the discussion, but is there a case against Carter Bryant? I've only seen a couple of highlight videos but he looks like an ideal project SF. Listed at 6-8 and looks legit, I'd be surprised if wasn't at least 6-7.

Great athlete, makes his 3s at 37% albeit low volume, gets blocks and steals, already very strong. Old for a freshman, sure.

Looks like a good gamble for a complementary role player who can finish plays for the heavy usage ball handlers in Wemby, Fox and Castle

I really like Carter Bryant. But he is raw and needs more time to develop.

So, I would only draft him if Fleming is gone.

[Dejounte]

One forward on one corner… the other forward in the other corner… Fox and Castle running around playing hot potato with the ball and trying to get a good look… while Wemby is in the paint? Good luck with that. Do people believe he’s still that type of player? They’ll struggle to get the ball to him because the opposing team will deny, deny, deny. Do people think Fox or Castle will be our designated rebounders? Come on. Not sure why people can’t see yet why we need a bruiser inside at all times with Vic.

[LeBowen]

Nah, Barnes can’t play SF as much anymore. He’s clearly phasing into the next chapter of his career into a PF. He’s lost a step and is now more suited to play the PF role. This happens to a lot of players.

You just said rebounding is a big issue, Barnes at PF is a part of it.
He'd be fine if matched up against the worst of SG/SF/PF on the opposing team.
We can't bench him because he's a tier above anyone else on the roster from 3pt.

[Dejounte]

You just said rebounding is a big issue, Barnes at PF is a part of it.
He'd be fine if matched up against the worst of SG/SF/PF on the opposing team.
We can't bench him because he's a tier above anyone else on the roster from 3pt.

It’s not ideal but if Barnes has a large role next year then the Spurs are cooked

[Mr. Body]

Someone compared Fleming to Jalen Smith.

Totally nailed it. Same skills, but same robotic and passive play, same lack of feel.

[benefactor]

Someone compared Fleming to Jalen Smith.

Totally nailed it. Same skills, but same robotic and passive play, same lack of feel.
I think people are forgetting just how dumb the the current role players are on this team. Just like anyone else I have some concerns with Kon, but all the things he does at a high level are things this team really needs. Kon willl play within the offense and make good decisions that will lead to good opportunities. Or he will be open for three and he can knock it down. I'm tired of watching our players get the basketball and their brain fall out of their ear as soon as it touches their hands.

[The Truth #6]

That’s making our rebounding woes even worse. Did folks here forget that rebounding is part of basketball? Brehhhhh

Replacing Devin in this imaginary starting lineup with Fleming makes our rebounding worse...how so?

[scottspurs]

2025 NBA Draft Board


Moved some dudes around after doing the analytics. The final step will be measurables, athletic testing and watching interviews to see what a players mindset is.


I’m not sure what to do with Ace Bailey because he makes me nervous as a prospect but he is very talented. Very Raw.


Queen is so talented I don’t think I will move him off #2. I would have had him as the top prospect in last year’s draft. The defensive metrics say he is not as bad on defense as he looks mainly because he is a really good rebounder. He is becoming a better athlete daily. Could end up being a good defender. He went from being close to 400 lbs in high school to what he is now. Conditioning has improved vastly although he still showed some fatigue issues in college. He is putting in the work. So much potential. He could even end up being a franchise guy if he has some untapped athletic ability.






Cooper Flagg - franchise potential
Derik Queen - all-star potential
Dylan Harper - all-star potential
Kon Knueppel - all-star potential
Jase Richardson - all-star potential
Vj Edgecombe - all-star potential
Tre Johnson - all-star potential
Thomas Sorber - starter potential
Ace Bailey - starter potential
Rasheer Fleming - starter potential
Collin Murray-Boyles - starter potential
Nique Clifford - starter potential
Jeremiah Fears - starter potential
Yaxel Lendeborg - starter potential
Kasparas Jakucionis - starter potential
Khaman Maluach - starter potential
Asa Newell - starter potential
Egor Denim - starter potential
Walter Clayton Jr. - starter potential
Cedric Coward - starter potential
Liam McNeely - role player
Kam Jones - role player
Adou Thiero - role player
Carter Bryant - role player
Isaiah Evans - role player
Sion James - role player
Will Riley - role player
Ryan Kalkbrenner - Role player
Darrion Williams - role player
Chaz Lanier - role player
Maxime Raynaud - role player
Johni Broome - role player
Vladislav Goldin - role player
Alex Condon - role player
Danny Wolf - developmental
Miles Byrd - developmental
Boogie Fland - developmental
Milos Uzan - developmental
Tahaad Pettiford - developmental
Tyrese Proctor - developmental
Labaron Philon - developmental
John Tonje - developmental
Ryan Nembhard - developmental
Koby Brea - developmental
Eric Dixon - developmental
Mark Sears - developmental
Kobe Johnson - developmental
Jaxson Robinson - developmental
Xavian Lee - developmental
Ian Jackson - developmental



This board doesn’t really factor in the Spurs needs or what they would do. Still haven’t watched the international players.


Also the potential next to their name is more of an early career rookie contract outlook. Any player can exceed expectation and any player not live up to expectations. A lot of a players early career is dictated by fit and opportunity. How well a team develops them and how hard they work to get better.

[LeBowen]

It’s not ideal but if Barnes has a large role next year then the Spurs are cooked

Cavsjust won 64 games with Dean Wade or Strus starting at SF, while having two undersized guards.
Sometimes I feel like the only thing you deal with are absolutes.
Is Barnes good enough to start on a team that can win it all? Not anymore.
Is he good enough to start on an average playoff team? Defintely.

If you think we'll have a major overhaul this summer, fine.
But Barnes being a starter on the opening night is way more likely.

[scott]

Who's the odd man out if we get Kon?
I think this season has shown us Barnes should be kept as a starter because of his elite shooting, but that we need a bigger PF and he should be moved to SF.
Assuming him and Castle start, there are still Devin and Keldon on the roster. And even Champagnie if we're talking SG/SF shooters.

I want to get rid of at least one of Devin/Keldon, but I don't think it's likely.
If we keep everyone in the current rotation, we need a 6'9-6'11 PF, backup PG and backup C.

They'll just do what they did this year before injuries took over. Create a roster crunch by insisting on a bunch of mid players get their minutes.

Remember when Champ was on a roll and we had an extremely effective lineup with him starting... and then we ruined it and him by reducing him to spot minutes?

[Gibbz]

Beginning to love the idea of drafting Queen but I'm not sure he'll make it to #8.

[Dejounte]

Replacing Devin in this imaginary starting lineup with Fleming makes our rebounding worse...how so?

The play you described is how. And let’s be honest, that’s the type of play a lot of people here are envisioning the Spurs to run all the time because folks think the solution to our shooting woes has to be solved by going all-in with shooters at every position and it’s just a thought process or myth that I can’t wait for it to be debunked once next season starts…

ps. This site loads so fucking slow

[onechance87]

They'll just do what they did this year before injuries took over. Create a roster crunch by insisting on a bunch of mid players get their minutes.

Remember when Champ was on a roll and we had an extremely effective lineup with him starting... and then we ruined it and him by reducing him to spot minutes?

yup ruined it by forcing vassell back in the starting lineup

[Dejounte]

Beginning to love the idea of drafting Queen but I'm not sure he'll make it to #8.

His offense is otherworldly for a big. The same type of swag Castle brings. That would be an exciting pick for sure. If Kon’s gone, I wouldn’t mind John B ‘s idea of just going double big with both picks. I think the draft is deeper with bigs than the other positions.

[objective]

Cavsjust won 64 games with Dean Wade or Strus starting at SF, while having two undersized guards.
Sometimes I feel like the only thing you deal with are absolutes.
Is Barnes good enough to start on a team that can win it all? Not anymore.
Is he good enough to start on an average playoff team? Defintely.

If you think we'll have a major overhaul this summer, fine.
But Barnes being a starter on the opening night is way more likely.

If I remember right there was a Dunc'd On podcast episode last month with an analytics guest, I think they spent a few minutes on why Wade was an analytics darling and how much he helped the Cavs win games with the little things

[Ice009]

Fleming also played for a terrible team. Very talented squad, but overall bad from what I heard

Yeah, I'm not sure about these guys that weren't on good teams as that is putting me right off. Having said that, though, I think back to Amen Thompson and Ausar Thompson, weren't they is some other league before being drafted? And how did that league compare to the NCAA? I assume it was worse and they seem to be doing very well (bit of an understatement as Amen is killing it) in the NBA.

[Mr. Body]

I think people are forgetting just how dumb the the current role players are on this team. Just like anyone else I have some concerns with Kon, but all the things he does at a high level are things this team really needs. Kon willl play within the offense and make good decisions that will lead to good opportunities. Or he will be open for three and he can knock it down. I'm tired of watching our players get the basketball and their brain fall out of their ear as soon as it touches their hands.

Why do you think Fleming is any different? He's probably just as dumb as most of our role players.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, I'm not sure about these guys that weren't on good teams as that is putting me right off. Having said that, though, I think back to Amen Thompson and Ausar Thompson, weren't they is some other league before being drafted? And how did that league compare to the NCAA? I assume it was worse and they seem to be doing very well (bit of an understatement as Amen is killing it) in the NBA.

They played for OverTime Elite, considered even worse than the G-League Ignite team. I undervalued them because of that, but I was wrong, at least as far as Amen goes. I expect Ausar will get there, too.

[Mr. Body]

Beginning to love the idea of drafting Queen but I'm not sure he'll make it to #8.

Queen is super salivating for his top end talents. He's big and fluid for his size, but really has an exceptional feel for the game. Just one of those 'gets it' players. Obviously big question marks about fit anywhere in the league, as he's not a shot blocker, may have some motor issues, and isn't a great defender in space. But I'm more intrigued by him than a player like Sorber who I wouldn't mind. I'd just rather go for that big upside swing. The passing, the smarts, the baby Jokic possibilities.

I don't know if I'd take him at 8, though. Just for team needs.

[Ice009]

They played for OverTime Elite, considered even worse than the G-League Ignite team. I undervalued them because of that, but I was wrong, at least as far as Amen goes. I expect Ausar will get there, too.

Thanks. I wasn't sure what league it was or the level it was (It's an even lower level than I thought). That's very interesting that it doesn't seem to have held Amen back at all, and as you said, Ausar is also on his way up there too.
I always used to be put off by players that played at lower levels of competition and looked real good, but Amen has changed my mind on that. I'd still be wary of picking anyone like that as I'd guess for the majority of players it most likely won't translate, but I wouldn't discount anyone anymore because of it.

[Dejounte]

I’ve been watching these guys every day to see if I’m going to keep shuffling the order I want them in:

Queen - More of a “make something out of nothing” ISO big. Because he’s an ISO big (a super unique thing in the NBA), it can be a good or bad thing. If background interviews check out and he’s a team player, it’s a good thing. He adds a dimension to the Spurs lineup with an already crowded offensive lineup of Fox, Castle, Wemby and makes it even more potent. Apparently Castle and Queen already follow each other on Instagram so there might already be a connection there. Queen is the type of pick you make with the first of our two FRP’s in order to boost his confidence (which is already sky high). I’d also like to add that there are NO bigs who can go coast to coast with the ball like Queen can. It’s absolutely absurd what he’s able to do at his height. For this reason, he is special.

Sorber - I’ve gone at length about this guy. People are seriously sleeping on him. He’s drawing comparisons to Looney and Okongwu on scouting reports (two guys I’ve said in the past who would be perfect next to Wemby), but I think he’s much more than that. His body movement and post moves are Tim Duncanesque. It wouldn’t surprise me if he’s been studying him a lot. He knows his angles, makes the simple play, and has all sorts of tricks up his sleeve when scoring down low that you don’t notice at first. It makes sense that there was a report of the Spurs scouting him, they probably see TD as being a good mentor for him. If it was up to me, I’d draft him with our 8th but I acknowledge that it’d probably be more strategic to pick him up with the ATL pick since the injury might scare teams off anyway.

Rasheer Fleming - Everybody knows I was the first to be high on this guy. I still am. However, unlike the first two above, his ceiling is immediately lower due to his inconsistent performance during college. He’s gifted in all the ways people have mentioned over and over, but it’s going to be a Blake Wesley-esque gamble where you’re still hoping that his brain will develop fast enough to realize his potential. This is the kind of pick scott (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=150) keeps saying that the draft pick won’t be an immediate contributor. There would be some growing pains with this guy and because of that, I would only draft him with the ATL pick unlike the two above who I would consider drafting with the Spurs pick.

RE: Fit concerns - I will repeat again that I believe talent supersedes everything. If any of these guys are as good as I think they are, they will make it work and remove any doubt of how they will fit alongside Wemby. It’s the Tim Duncan argument. I’d play Tim Duncan next to Wemby because he’s just that good despite skills or tendencies that might be lacking. I happen to think Sorber and Queen are good fits due to our urgent need of a big to stay in the paint as opposed to planting all of our players on the perimeter with no one to rebound inside. That’s an unpopular opinion and I’ll stick with it.

[Trueblood]

I think this is spot on thinking. Both Rodman and Scotty Pippin weren’t even D1 players. scouting wasn’t as good back then,and analytics were non existent. Even so, both players were selected at positions that would be first rounders today, #5 and #27.

you just said it yourself “scouting wasn’t as good back then”. But it’s much better now and he didn’t get picked up by a better program in three years during the era you recognize as one with better scouting. That should tell you everything you need to know

[rankingtear]

Wemby needs a big wing at the 4 so he is always matched up with the other teams big man. I would personally would trade this pick for Keegan to fill that role. But they would likely revisit KD and Markannen trade in the offseason to fill that spot. Markannen value is way down and if UTA does not win the top 4 spots then a trade demand is going to be more likely. There is little value for us in this draft with lack of wings on our range.

[John B]

I’ve been watching these guys every day to see if I’m going to keep shuffling the order I want them in:

Queen - More of a “make something out of nothing” ISO big. Because he’s an ISO big (a super unique thing in the NBA), it can be a good or bad thing. If background interviews check out and he’s a team player, it’s a good thing. He adds a dimension to the Spurs lineup with an already crowded offensive lineup of Fox, Castle, Wemby and makes it even more potent. Apparently Castle and Queen already follow each other on Instagram so there might already be a connection there. Queen is the type of pick you make with the first of our two FRP’s in order to boost his confidence (which is already sky high). I’d also like to add that there are NO bigs who can go coast to coast with the ball like Queen can. It’s absolutely absurd what he’s able to do at his height. For this reason, he is special.

Sorber - I’ve gone at length about this guy. People are seriously sleeping on him. He’s drawing comparisons to Looney and Okongwu on scouting reports (two guys I’ve said in the past who would be perfect next to Wemby), but I think he’s much more than that. His body movement and post moves are Tim Duncanesque. It wouldn’t surprise me if he’s been studying him a lot. He knows his angles, makes the simple play, and has all sorts of tricks up his sleeve when scoring down low that you don’t notice at first. It makes sense that there was a report of the Spurs scouting him, they probably see TD as being a good mentor for him. If it was up to me, I’d draft him with our 8th but I acknowledge that it’d probably be more strategic to pick him up with the ATL pick since the injury might scare teams off anyway.

Rasheer Fleming - Everybody knows I was the first to be high on this guy. I still am. However, unlike the first two above, his ceiling is immediately lower due to his inconsistent performance during college. He’s gifted in all the ways people have mentioned over and over, but it’s going to be a Blake Wesley-esque gamble where you’re still hoping that his brain will develop fast enough to realize his potential. This is the kind of pick scott (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=150) keeps saying that the draft pick won’t be an immediate contributor. There would be some growing pains with this guy and because of that, I would only draft him with the ATL pick unlike the two above who I would consider drafting with the Spurs pick.

RE: Fit concerns - I will repeat again that I believe talent supersedes everything. If any of these guys are as good as I think they are, they will make it work and remove any doubt of how they will fit alongside Wemby. It’s the Tim Duncan argument. I’d play Tim Duncan next to Wemby because he’s just that good despite skills or tendencies that might be lacking. I happen to think Sorber and Queen are good fits due to our urgent need of a big to stay in the paint as opposed to planting all of our players on the perimeter with no one to rebound inside. That’s an unpopular opinion and I’ll stick with it.

If Spurs any combination of Queen/Sorber and Fleming. It’s an Endgame. The Spurs can go big half court with Queen/Sorber and Wemby or running fast with Wemby and Fleming. Damn, Spurs will have paint dominance for years and years.

I can’t wait where the Spurs’ and ATL’s picks are.

[LeBowen]

Imo, we have to deal with the coaching situation before the draft night.
Whoever we draft needs to be in line with whatever the next coach's philosophy is.
Wemby can play with anyone, but not every coach would want a non-shooting PF, even if Wemby becomes KAT 2.0 from 3pt.