2025 NBA Draft

[Eaglenole2002]

After we land Harper, all I care about is a defensive big that can either rim run or space the floor (Kalkbrenner is my hope) and a forward who can’t be hunted defensively but also can develop 3-point range. Basically a younger Barnes.

If Fleming’s junior year shooting didn’t look like fool’s gold, he’s probably be my choice at 14. Essengue seems like a decent bet at that spot. CMB probably can’t shoot. Penda is intriguing. Wolf probably will be a sieve defensively and he might not be a good shooter either.

[Knoxxx]

Who are the 73 nonmembers browsing our thread here WTF? Mostly bots? Web crawlers?

[Ice009]

His shooting is mediocre, low volume, and probably fake, based on his 59% FTs

Darn, 59% is not good. No good shooter shoots that at the line (unless you've got some sort of mental hurdle, but that's not what you want either).

[RC_Drunkford]

The 3-guard offense is actually ideal for Wemby’s game and body type. His defender would be forced to defend a motion offense freeing Wemby more. 3 quality guards, each could suck defenders creating mismatches and open shots. It couldn’t be any more ideal for Wemby’s natural game, who could be the most opportunistic scorer with his skills and length. What’s missing is another big who is equally a good passer and capable of making shots. Danny Wolf is the most ideal to fit that bill, very smart player, who can shoot, help rebound and block shots. He will be a natural in that motion offense with his passing chops and high basketball IQ. Stop overthinking that he’s mocked at 20’s. He is the ideal guy for that offense. His comp is Turkuglo. I say it’s Diaw himself but bigger and arguably better handles.

Danny Wolf is a scrub who will fall into the 2nd round and can’t even shoot free throws

[RC_Drunkford]

Who are the 73 nonmembers browsing our thread here WTF? Mostly bots? Web crawlers?

A bunch of Spurs and ESPN beat writers I assume. They get the majority of takes from this forum

[LeBowen]

A bunch of Spurs and ESPN beat writers I assume. They get the majority of takes from this forum

Whenever I see this forum mentioned anywhere else, it's always in the context of being a toxic cesspool. :lol

[Eaglenole2002]

Whenever I see this forum mentioned anywhere else, it's always in the context of being a toxic cesspool. :lol

I’m mostly just a lurker who posts around draft time and FA because the NBA has absolutely the most entertaining offseason of all the major sports, but this place is so much better than it used to be. This board was like the Wild West.

[Mr. Body]

A bunch of Spurs and ESPN beat writers I assume. They get the majority of takes from this forum

ESPN doesn't even know the Spurs exist.

and this forum is seen, as mentioned, as a cesspool.

[RC_Drunkford]

Whenever I see this forum mentioned anywhere else, it's always in the context of being a toxic cesspool. :lol

they do and then you see articles suggesting the same things we've been discussing. Some of the accounts here are actual media members.


ESPN doesn't even know the Spurs exist.

and this forum is seen, as mentioned, as a cesspool.

longterm members here all know that ESPN has been repeatedly stealing TimVPs Spurstalk content. Last time I checked he was quoted on hoopshype, etc. as a reliable source for the Spurs front office plans

[Mr. Body]

they do and then you see articles suggesting the same things we've been discussing. Some of the accounts here are actual media members.



longterm members here all know that ESPN has been repeatedly stealing TimVPs Spurstalk content. Last time I checked he was quoted on hoopshype, etc. as a reliable source for the Spurs front office plans

There was one guy like fifteen years ago that took his content. Any of that stuff was years and years ago.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Have you watched what is happening in Denver and Milwaukee? They both went all in immediately, won one title, and are now fucked because the have no way to replenish their rosters. We don’t need extra young players right now. Even our older draftees, Keldon annd Devin, are 24 and 25 years old. We need some veterans to fill the gaps. In 5-6 years, we will be desperate for young talent, having exhausted our current pick and swap stash. I’m glad it’s a good draft at #14, because the return on flipping that pick will probably be the last chance at a high pick in Wemby’s career.

This actually makes sense.

Imagine a desperate team like Denver proposes to use 2032 unprotected FRP to trade our #14.

It will be hard to say no.

[scott]

Glad to see people jumping aboard the Drake Powell train. I know there are some posts early in this thread where I started talking about him after the Maui Invitational. I definitely came away from watching NC in that tournament liking Powell a lot more than Ian Jackson (who I presume is going back to school since I don't see him mentioned at all anymore).

I am afraid, however, that Powell's athletic numbers are going to elevate him to be picked ahead of us at 38. Would be a candidate if we could do a two-for-one with BKN... but he'd honestly be the kind of guy BKN should just take at 27 if they end up taking all 4 FRPs

[sfernald]

There was one guy like fifteen years ago that took his content. Any of that stuff was years and years ago.

If they did I would probably watch big media more. I just watch the games now and get all my info elsewhere thank you.

[Dejounte]

Glad to see people jumping aboard the Drake Powell train. I know there are some posts early in this thread where I started talking about him after the Maui Invitational. I definitely came away from watching NC in that tournament liking Powell a lot more than Ian Jackson (who I presume is going back to school since I don't see him mentioned at all anymore).

I am afraid, however, that Powell's athletic numbers are going to elevate him to be picked ahead of us at 38. Would be a candidate if we could do a two-for-one with BKN... but he'd honestly be the kind of guy BKN should just take at 27 if they end up taking all 4 FRPs

He double clutches in mid air which is something I haven’t seen in any prospect this year…. That’s insane hang time. He uses his body in a different way when he’s in the air compared to guys like VJ who just uses his athleticism to glide towards the rim. Hate to use hyperbole but the way he uses his functional athleticism reminds me of Kobe. I can’t imagine Drake being that good and “hidden” at the same time that he’s been a 2nd rounder all year, so I’ll calm down a bit. …but what if he’s that special talent everyone IS overlooking a la Jokic? Hmm…………

[Dejounte]

C7jazSeuwhB

Hmmmm

[99 Problems]

Mmmmm bop


:lol

[CGD]

C7jazSeuwhB

Hmmmm

What is this?

[ace3g]

https://x.com/DraftExpress/status/1924449066974376198

[ace3g]

What is this?

Drake Powell is out in Los Angeles working out with Chris Paul this week

[CGD]

Drake Powell is out in Los Angeles working out with Chris Paul this week

Thanks

[scottspurs]

After Powells combine he will go 18-25 range. Only takes one team to fall in love with his athleticism. A team with multiple firsts like the nets or hawks will take him. He will not be available at 38

[scottspurs]

That said I have Powell as my top developmental tier player in this draft. A player that has a wide range of outcomes but definitely needs some development. Not so much a project just fine tuning

[scottspurs]

Trade up idea: let’s say the Spurs really want Sorber.

Trade pick 14 and 2026 hawks/spurs pick swap rights for Pick 11 with Portland. Get ahead of Bulls and Hawks who might also like Sorber.

Portland trades back 3 spots for a stones throw at the 2026 draft. So they would get the best pick out of their own, Atlanta or Spurs. Spurs would Still have the chance to swap with Atlanta if Portland finished up worse than them. If both Portland and Atlanta ended up in the lottery it would give the blazers an extra shot at moving up which has proven to be valuable.

[scottspurs]

Trade up idea: let’s say the Spurs really want Sorber.

Trade pick 14 and 2026 hawks/spurs pick swap rights for Pick 11 with Portland. Get ahead of Bulls and Hawks who might also like Sorber.

Portland trades back 3 spots for a stones throw at the 2026 draft. So they would get the best pick out of their own, Atlanta or Spurs. Spurs would Still have the chance to swap with Atlanta if Portland finished up worse than them. If both Portland and Atlanta ended up in the lottery it would give the blazers an extra shot at moving up which has proven to be valuable.

[mo7888]

Trade up idea: let’s say the Spurs really want Sorber.

Trade pick 14 and 2026 hawks/spurs pick swap rights for Pick 11 with Portland. Get ahead of Bulls and Hawks who might also like Sorber.

Portland trades back 3 spots for a stones throw at the 2026 draft. So they would get the best pick out of their own, Atlanta or Spurs. Spurs would Still have the chance to swap with Atlanta if Portland finished up worse than them. If both Portland and Atlanta ended up in the lottery it would give the blazers an extra shot at moving up which has proven to be valuable.

I like Sorber, but that's too much to give up... just stand pat or trade back..

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Trade up idea: let’s say the Spurs really want Sorber.

Trade pick 14 and 2026 hawks/spurs pick swap rights for Pick 11 with Portland. Get ahead of Bulls and Hawks who might also like Sorber.

Portland trades back 3 spots for a stones throw at the 2026 draft. So they would get the best pick out of their own, Atlanta or Spurs. Spurs would Still have the chance to swap with Atlanta if Portland finished up worse than them. If both Portland and Atlanta ended up in the lottery it would give the blazers an extra shot at moving up which has proven to be valuable.

Trade our Dybantsa/Peterson/Boozer ticket for a back-up big, capped at 15 mins per game? No way.

[scottspurs]

Trade our Dybantsa/Peterson/Boozer ticket for a back-up big, capped at 15 mins per game? No way.

In theory you would still have a ticket if both Portland and Atlanta moved up but I get it. Harper, Castle, Wemby and one of those top guys next year. We would need the Holts to sell the team to Saudi Arabia to pay that 3rd Apron and keep that team together lol

[scottspurs]

I don't see how we'd have a ticket with no 2026 1st after the deal you proposed.

You will still have a first rnd pick. It’s just swap rights. So if Portland and Atlanta moved up Portland would get hawks pick if was higher and spurs would get blazers pick

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

In theory you would still have a ticket if both Portland and Atlanta moved up but I get it. Harper, Castle, Wemby and one of those top guys next year. We would need the Holts to sell the team to Saudi Arabia to pay that 3rd Apron and keep that team together lol

Exactly. I'm not against trading future picks but this 2026 swap I'm keeping at all costs, unless it's for a legit star. It's possible Atlanta make the playoffs next year as the East is so bad, but they'll have a massive decision on Trae this offseason, so you never know what could happen, especially with the Spurs lottery luck.

[mo7888]

You will still have a first rnd pick. It’s just swap rights. So if Portland and Atlanta moved up Portland would get hawks pick if was higher and spurs would get blazers pick

I deleted my post when I realized that your proposal left us with the middle pick of those 3.

[scottspurs]

Hawks win lottery next year, Blazers move to up to number 2. Hawks would swap and spurs would get their pick at 2. Hawks would get the spurs pick

[scottspurs]

I deleted my post when I realized that your proposal left us with the middle pick of those 3.
Oh ok gotcha! Yeah if everyone really thinks Atlanta will be bad it makes less sense to make that trade but I don’t think they would finish worse than Portland. So you would end up moving up 3 spots for absolutely nothing

[RC_Drunkford]

There‘s no reason to trade up. 14 is right where some of the 3-and-D wings will be available. If you want to trade up, trade up from 38 or trade down from 14 to 19/28

[scottspurs]

3 and D prospects won’t help the Spurs rebound but I guess in theory the Spurs could fix that problem via trade or free agency.

[Vienna]

3 and D prospects won’t help the Spurs rebound but I guess in theory the Spurs could fix that problem via trade or free agency.

Deni Avdija anyone?

[mo7888]

Deni Avdija anyone?

I do like him, but with most things, it depends on price.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/GeryWoelfel/status/1924501948645904736

[scott]

He double clutches in mid air which is something I haven’t seen in any prospect this year…. That’s insane hang time. He uses his body in a different way when he’s in the air compared to guys like VJ who just uses his athleticism to glide towards the rim. Hate to use hyperbole but the way he uses his functional athleticism reminds me of Kobe. I can’t imagine Drake being that good and “hidden” at the same time that he’s been a 2nd rounder all year, so I’ll calm down a bit. …but what if he’s that special talent everyone IS overlooking a la Jokic? Hmm…………

I'll preface this by saying I watched a total of 1.5 UNC games this year... and they were both very early in the season at the Maui Invitational and the game I really watched was against Dayton.

With that said, I noted at the time that UNC wasn't doing much with Drake, just sending him to stand in alternate corners. His shot looked good though (he was 2-2 that game, both 3s), but wasn't being asked to do much. I don't recall him standing out either way on defense. In contrast, Ian Jackson was given a lot more free reign in the offense and reminded me a lot of Lonnie (in all the positive and negative ways).

I'll see if I can dig up my report from the time... but I recall coming out of that game noting some good movement and athleticism but he was clearly being misused.

[scott]

Trade up idea: let’s say the Spurs really want Sorber.

Trade pick 14 and 2026 hawks/spurs pick swap rights for Pick 11 with Portland. Get ahead of Bulls and Hawks who might also like Sorber.

Portland trades back 3 spots for a stones throw at the 2026 draft. So they would get the best pick out of their own, Atlanta or Spurs. Spurs would Still have the chance to swap with Atlanta if Portland finished up worse than them. If both Portland and Atlanta ended up in the lottery it would give the blazers an extra shot at moving up which has proven to be valuable.

I know there are some weird rules about trading incoming swaps... for example, the Spurs can't trade the rights to swap with ATL to POR so that POR's pick becomes the best of POR or ATL, but I do believe the Spurs could make a trade whereby ATL gets the worst of ATL or POR and POR gets the best of POR or the best of ATL/SA, and then SA would get the second best of POR or ATL/SA.

Love me some confusing AF swap scenarios!

[Eaglenole2002]

Deleted

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I know there are some weird rules about trading incoming swaps... for example, the Spurs can't trade the rights to swap with ATL to POR so that POR's pick becomes the best of POR or ATL, but I do believe the Spurs could make a trade whereby ATL gets the worst of ATL or POR and POR gets the best of POR or the best of ATL/SA, and then SA would get the second best of POR or ATL/SA.

Love me some confusing AF swap scenarios!

Yeah, the logic is the same as with the Spurs 2030 swaps with Dallas and Minnesota. As realgm eloquently puts it:

Most / more favorable of SAN, DAL and MIN 2-30; less favorable of SAN and DAL to DAL; less favorable of (i) MIN 2-30 and (ii) more favorable of SAN and DAL [or MIN if MIN not conveyable] to MIN (via SAN swap for DAL; via SAN swap of SAN or DAL for MIN)

[RC_Drunkford]

1917220022318993806

[CGD]

Do our European friends have any updates on Hugo Gonzalez? Like when do we get measurements from the international guys?

I find it somewhat odd that he was a Top 5 pick to start the season and now consistently mocked in the 20s. Are evaluators missing something? Or is the dip justified.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/DraftExpress/status/1924536533421322625

[ace3g]

https://x.com/DraftExpress/status/1924523443485040694

[exstatic]

I know there are some weird rules about trading incoming swaps... for example, the Spurs can't trade the rights to swap with ATL to POR so that POR's pick becomes the best of POR or ATL, but I do believe the Spurs could make a trade whereby ATL gets the worst of ATL or POR and POR gets the best of POR or the best of ATL/SA, and then SA would get the second best of POR or ATL/SA.

Love me some confusing AF swap scenarios!

You’ll love this:


San Antonio will receive the more favorable of its 2026 1st round pick and Atlanta's 2026 1st round pick; Utah will receive the most favorable of its 2026 1st round pick protected for selections 9-30, Minnesota's 2026 1st round pick and Cleveland's 2026 1st round pick; Minnesota will receive the less favorable of its pick and the Utah pick if conveyable; Atlanta will receive the more favorable of (i) the less favorable of its 2026 1st round pick and San Antonio's 2026 1st round pick and (ii) the less favorable of (a) the Cleveland pick and (b) the more favorable of the Utah pick if conveyable and the Minnesota pick [or (ii) the Cleveland pick if the Utah pick is not conveyable] and Cleveland will receive the less favorable of (i) and (ii) (if the Utah pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyable, then Minnesota's and Cleveland's obligations to Utah will be extinguished) (via Utah's right to swap for Minnesota; via Utah's right to swap Utah or Minnesota for Cleveland; via San Antonio's right to swap for Atlanta; via Atlanta's right to swap Atlanta or San Antonio for Cleveland

[ace3g]

Yahoo Sports mock draft 2.0
https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/article/nba-mock-draft-20-which-players-are-on-the-rise-after-the-draft-combine-the-latest-projections-for-every-pick-165027293.html

[scottspurs]

You can taste Kevin O’Connor’s salty tears lol from that mock draft.

[CGD]

Yahoo Sports mock draft 2.0
https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/article/nba-mock-draft-20-which-players-are-on-the-rise-after-the-draft-combine-the-latest-projections-for-every-pick-165027293.html

KOC is really skeptical of us taking Harper of late. He needs to get over it.

[exstatic]

You can taste Kevin O’Connor’s salty tears lol from that mock draft.

He’s such a dick. Definite Spurs hater.

[Mr. Body]

https://x.com/DraftExpress/status/1924523443485040694

What's gonna be funny is if Kon goes to Houston and we never see tiny, itty bitty Reed Sheppard again.

[scott]

You’ll love this:

Be still my beating heart

[scott]

Jaku is going to fall right to Houston and I hate it

[baseline bum]

You don’t pass up a player of Harper’s caliber just because the fit isn’t perfect. This is exactly the same discussion that was had back in 1997, when there seriously were advocates for drafting Keith Van Horn #1 or trading the pick. Harper isn’t going to be Tim Duncan, but he very well could be a James Harden or a Dwyane Wade.

Yeah imagine the Lakers passing on Kobe because they had Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel.

[heyheymymy]

Harper
Bryant
Condon

would be a nice realistic haul from natural selection positions

[rjv]

He’s such a dick. Definite Spurs hater.

KOC mentioned that some people are calling Flagg the best prospect since Lebron and Givony quickly reminded him of Victor. KOC recovered with okay, best "college prospect" or "best non-international prospect". what a clown.

[PhantomDashCam]

That KOC mock draft overall was bizarre.
Fleming going #25? Sorber #28?

[sfernald]

You can taste Kevin O’Connor’s salty tears lol from that mock draft.

Damn, he mentions the three guys who I really think the spurs should take at #14: Carter / Essengue / Coward

Will any of them still be there at #14 at this point?

[Mr. Body]

Jaku is going to fall right to Houston and I hate it

I'd hate being on the other side and seeing us get Harper.

But Kasparas would be a help for them. I hope they go for a Carter Bryant instead, who won't help them much, too much overlap.

[rjv]

it would have sucked if harper had been there for the Rockets. It would have made Green immediately dispensable.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

That KOC mock draft overall was bizarre.
Fleming going #25? Sorber #28?

Sorber's foot injury is a concern.

He still cannot jump and no one knows his vertical and lateral speed.

[BackHome]

Still can’t find about his injury but the little I did have suggested it was a 6 month time frame so don’t even know if he will do any workouts?

[CGD]

That KOC mock draft overall was bizarre.
Fleming going #25? Sorber #28?

Unlike a handful of folks in this forum, most of the mocks are not as high on these players. Fleming is consistently in the 20s (apparently there are some real feel issues with him). Sorber I've seen higher than 28, but mostly in the late teens/early 20s.

[CGD]

I'd hate being on the other side and seeing us get Harper.

But Kasparas would be a help for them. I hope they go for a Carter Bryant instead, who won't help them much, too much overlap.

They need a PG in the worst way. I think they luck into Jaku or Fears. My hope is they overreach on Jase.

[scott]

https://i.imgur.com/MOYOwcy.png
https://i.imgur.com/xwOZFww.png
https://i.imgur.com/kT0eZ94.png

NGL... this "way too early" big board was pretty damn good for being a whole 18 months early

[scott]

Another exciting game, though UNC faired better than UCONN. I was rooting for Dayton, because UNC fans don't deserve to experience joy. A stadium full of tourists in Maui rooting for a team that 90% of them have no actual connection to. I digress...

Powell and Jackson...

Hard to evaluate either since UNC just sends them out to stand in the corners and shoot threes every now and then. Jackson seems to want to make things happen offensively more, and has a sweet stroke, but didn't come across as necessarily high IQ. Jackson was beat by his man on the defensive end repeatedly.

Powell, on the other hand, shows some flashes as a 3&D prospect with some athleticism. Active defender, good lateral movement, stayed in front of his man, was very attentive. Nice 3-point stroke for a couple of corner 3s but didn't see much else from him offensively.

Of the two, Powell seems like someone to keep an eye on whereas Jackson just seems like another chucker with a dumb haircut.

Here was my reaction after watching Powell live. Seems exactly what he is. Would love to sneak into a way to getting him.

[scott]

Thanks for the shoutout heyheymymy (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=30197)!

Just got back from the MEM v UCONN game, got to put in a few hours of work before I head back out for the UNC game. I'll be courtside for tomorrow's round 2 game (most likely featuring UNC), but today was GA. Still had a great view.

https://i.ibb.co/hWJpk8k/invitational.jpg

Some thoughts from that game, as I had a keen eye on McNeely.


Penny Hardaway and all his assistants wear Penny Hardaway Air Foamposite Ones. I found this amusing
Dan Hurley seems built for the NCAA game. The way he is into every single play, all over the refs, teaching the kids, etc... you just don't see that in the pro game. I'm not sure this dude has a whole lot of interest in being anything other than UCONNs head coach for the foreseeable future.
Both team's crowds were electric. Awesome stuff.
On to McNeely:

he hit two big threes to bring UCONN back in regulation, but honestly other than that was kind of invisible out there. On defense, has some lateral quickness that helps him be a compliant defender, but Memphis's athletes still turned the corner on him fairly easily
three point stroke looks sweet though. really nice form, gets up and down with it quickly. he had one attempt right in front of me in the first half from the corner where he did a nice pump fake, one dribble to his right, got the shot up. Wasn't a make, but it looked like good form, good activity, good rotation.
I think there are some tools there, and his length is nice, but unless he's going to be a 40%+ shooter right out of the gates, it might be a slow development path for him. It's not going to be like plugging Knecht into the NBA and watching him go. Right now, I'd say he doesn't really give you anything more than what we are getting from Champagnie, but this was only one game and the dude is still a freshman. Lots of room yet for him to grow and impress. That's just my one game thoughts. I went in hoping to really be wowed, because he's an archetype that really fits... but it was just kind of a "meh" performance. Until he hit those two 3s, he was easy to forget about.
McNeely also committed a crucial over the back call which led to a Tech (on Hurley I think? It was on the opposite end of the court) which pretty much gave Memphis the win.
TLDR version: If this was the only tape you watched of McNeely ahead of the draft, you wouldn't take him in the lottery. Thankfully for him, he'll have lots of other opportunities to shine.


For UCONN, Tarris Reed Jr. was a BEAST. Don't know that this guy translates to the NBA other than a late SRP, third string C, but in this game he was awesome
Memphis's athleticism was just too much for UCONN at times. There was a pretty decent stretch where Tyrese Hunter looked like an absolute star... and then they just wen away from him. PJ Haggerty and Colby Rogers both also have some swag. None of these guys have first round grades on them, but they each just have basketball swag. Could be an interesting flier for some team to take in the second round for a bench scorer sparkplug in the Cam Thomas like mold.
Memphis's D was smothering. UCONN overcame that with some big shots, but it was a struggle for them. Was impressed with that, because I thought the knock on Penny's team when Jalen Duren was there was that they were undisciplined. That wasn't the case with them today.


Looking forward to seeing Drake Powell and Ian Jackson for UNC tonight. Tankathon currently has them mocked at #13 and #22.

And here was my live report on McNeely.

Whatever happened to Alex Karaban? Is he going back to school for his Sr year? There was talk for awhile of people here liking him, but he always came across to me like a guy who just stands out because he's older than everyone else.

[scottspurs]

And here was my live report on McNeely.

Whatever happened to Alex Karaban? Is he going back to school for his Sr year? There was talk for awhile of people here liking him, but he always came across to me like a guy who just stands out because he's older than everyone else.

Karaban returned to UConn

[scott]

Karaban returned to UConn

That's where he belongs. I hope he gets big NIL money, because I don't see him as a viable professional basketball player, at least not in the United States.

[scottspurs]

I was the 1st to inform y’all about Cedric Coward over a month ago and I want to throw some more sleepers at y’all that I like. 1st up:

Brandon Walker- If Derik Queen had a fatter shorter older brother. 6’7 fat boy that moves feet well. Shot 38% from 3 on 1.5 attempts per game. Averaged 14 pts, 5 reb and 1.6 ast in only 20 minutes per game. 21 % assist rate. Not a very high level of competition at Montana State but on tape looks nimble and quick for his size. Shows some playmaking ability. Also showed ability to get to the free throw line. 5.4 attempts per game. Only shot 54.5% from the line though. Needs to work on his body listed at 260 lbs but shows some promise as an old school type power forward.

[scottspurs]

Another Sleeper

Melvin Council Jr. - a defensive demon that moves well with his quickness. Really nice handles. Has no problem getting to the paint. Averaged 14 pts, 5.4 reb, 4.1 ast, 2.1 stl.


Listed at 6’4 185 lbs. looks like he has super long arms.


To me he looks like he could be a point guard in the NBA so he would have really good size if you factor in his long arms. Moves like an NBA level athlete. Only shot 30% from 3 and 43% from the field but 82% from the line.

[scottspurs]

Sleeper # 3

Neoklis Avdalas: combine measurements 6’7 1/2 without shoes at combine. 8.8 ppg, 40.7 % 3-pt in 18 games this season. Dude is a bucket when he gets playing time. In Europe they are not to keen on playing young players so he gets 19.2 mpg but he shows scoring chops when he is out there. Quietly showed off decent athleticism at the combine. Has some wildness to his game. Very much like Manu in that he will make an unbelievable pass then an unbelievable turnover.

[scottspurs]

Sleeper 4

Grant Nelson: 6’10 without shoes and his quickness broke record at the combine with an astonishing 2.58 Shuttle run. Also checked in with a 10.51 second lane agility time. 3rd fastest at combine. Averaged 11.5 pts, 7.6 Reb as a super senior at Alabama last season. Shows he has high IQ on tape. Nothing special but I think he could be a solid bench big at the NBA level. A glue guy that still needs to develop a shot like most young players in this draft. Pretty solid all around player minus the shooting.

[bluebellmaniac]

Sleeper 4

Grant Nelson: 6’10 without shoes and his quickness broke record at the combine with an astonishing 2.58 Shuttle run. Also checked in with a 10.51 second lane agility time. 3rd fastest at combine. Averaged 11.5 pts, 7.6 Reb as a super senior at Alabama last season. Shows he has high IQ on tape. Nothing special but I think he could be a solid bench big at the NBA level. A glue guy that still needs to develop a shot like most young players in this draft. Pretty solid all around player minus the shooting.

Alabama guy, huh ... Anything happen to "fall out" when he was making great time in his agility tests? Cause those Alabama kids, that tends to happen with them... J/S...

[Ice009]

Yahoo Sports mock draft 2.0
https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/article/nba-mock-draft-20-which-players-are-on-the-rise-after-the-draft-combine-the-latest-projections-for-every-pick-165027293.html

He says Cooper Flagg is the safest number 1 pick in ages (ages?). What does that mean? Did he forget who was drafted two years ago? Is he taking a shot at the Spurs there too? F that guy.

[cutewizard]

For next year.........



https://youtu.be/YgABvK9Ylgw?si=AQMOVupjvnbcQyuw

[scottspurs]

Final sleeper for now #5

Treysen Eaglestaff: absolute bucket at North Dakota. Transferred to West Virginia but put his name in the draft. Not sure if he will keep his name in the draft but he is an intriguing prospect. 6’7 guard/forward that averaged 18.9 ppg. Had a career-high of 51 points vs South Dakota. Went wild his final 10 healthy games last season. Averaged 22 points on 41.6% 3-pt shooting. His tape is super fun to watch. When the Eaglestaff waves his wand it’s unreal. Honey badger of college basketball. He plays against some pretty terrible competition so it’s hard to evaluate but you see some insane stuff. He dunks with ease. There is not a shot he doesn’t like. I saw him pull up from half court on the 2nd possession of the game.


Dude might be insane. Like actually needs a mental evaluation. He will go right up against a 7 footer and get stuffed on one play and then go right back and posterize him the next. He never passes the ball but when he does it reminds me of Skip to my Lou or white chocolate Jason Williams. Most of the time he says F passing the ball and he strokes it. Fades away a lot. Saw him shoot a fadeaway from behind the basket. Makes it and grabs and throws someone’s drink sitting in the first row. Dude talks a lot of trash and has an attitude to him. Dude will take crossover step back 3’s stand there and pose. Dude jumps with ease. It’s crazy to watch. Gets up and dunks with ease. He took off damn near the free throw line on a couple of dunks I saw. Spin moves, jukes, diving out of bounds dude is max effort. I’m pretty sure all his teammates hate him as most of them will just stand around uninterested while he does his thing on offense.


I highly recommend watching his 40 point game vs Alabama. They tried doubling him, box and 1, trapping him. He would score over and over. He would just keep dribbling until right when the shot clock was about to run out. Dude was determined to have a marquee game vs a big school. He would scream at his teammates every timeout to give him the ball. HE was cooking every defender. He scored at least twice in 1 on 5 in transition while his teammates just stayed on defense. I guess they knew they weren’t gettin that ball.


He takes the hardest shots and makes some. I would love to see a workout between him and Ace Bailey because everyone there would pull their hair out. I saw him take a hook shot top of the key 3-pt line. He missed that one but later in the same game he goes between the legs tomahawk dunk. He will shoot free throws with his eyes clothes and talk trash to the other team while he does it. Hits a game winner one game takes jersey off and tapes it to the wall. Not sure if he is an nba player but sign me up to watch this guy in Austin because it’s must see.

[cutewizard]

Dybantsa ------------ Dominique Wilkins?

Cameron Boozer -------------- Charles Barkley?

[cutewizard]

So next year we have

Wemby, Boozer, Fox, Castle and Harper

A big five for almost a decade?

Omg

[cutewizard]

Final sleeper for now #5

Treysen Eaglestaff: absolute bucket at North Dakota. Transferred to West Virginia but put his name in the draft. Not sure if he will keep his name in the draft but he is an intriguing prospect. 6’7 guard/forward that averaged 18.9 ppg. Had a career-high of 51 points vs South Dakota. Went wild his final 10 healthy games last season. Averaged 22 points on 41.6% 3-pt shooting. His tape is super fun to watch. When the Eaglestaff waves his wand it’s unreal. Honey badger of college basketball. He plays against some pretty terrible competition so it’s hard to evaluate but you see some insane stuff. He dunks with ease. There is not a shot he doesn’t like. I saw him pull up from half court on the 2nd possession of the game.


Dude might be insane. Like actually needs a mental evaluation. He will go right up against a 7 footer and get stuffed on one play and then go right back and posterize him the next. He never passes the ball but when he does it reminds me of Skip to my Lou or white chocolate Jason Williams. Most of the time he says F passing the ball and he strokes it. Fades away a lot. Saw him shoot a fadeaway from behind the basket. Makes it and grabs and throws someone’s drink sitting in the first row. Dude talks a lot of trash and has an attitude to him. Dude will take crossover step back 3’s stand there and pose. Dude jumps with ease. It’s crazy to watch. Gets up and dunks with ease. He took off damn near the free throw line on a couple of dunks I saw. Spin moves, jukes, diving out of bounds dude is max effort. I’m pretty sure all his teammates hate him as most of them will just stand around uninterested while he does his thing on offense.


I highly recommend watching his 40 point game vs Alabama. They tried doubling him, box and 1, trapping him. He would score over and over. He would just keep dribbling until right when the shot clock was about to run out. Dude was determined to have a marquee game vs a big school. He would scream at his teammates every timeout to give him the ball. HE was cooking every defender. He scored at least twice in 1 on 5 in transition while his teammates just stayed on defense. I guess they knew they weren’t gettin that ball.


He takes the hardest shots and makes some. I would love to see a workout between him and Ace Bailey because everyone there would pull their hair out. I saw him take a hook shot top of the key 3-pt line. He missed that one but later in the same game he goes between the legs tomahawk dunk. He will shoot free throws with his eyes clothes and talk trash to the other team while he does it. Hits a game winner one game takes jersey off and tapes it to the wall. Not sure if he is an nba player but sign me up to watch this guy in Austin because it’s must see.


https://youtu.be/sR5d3k1Ku24?si=IUjChDmcvrYZJ3cz

[scottspurs]

Alabama guy, huh ... Anything happen to "fall out" when he was making great time in his agility tests? Cause those Alabama kids, that tends to happen with them... J/S...

not sure but Spurs might want to stay away from Treysen Eaglestaff if you have worries like that

[cutewizard]

https://youtu.be/amEQO4vUUKg?si=Q00ERCV1Sb9Nr3KF

[John B]

He says Cooper Flagg is the safest number 1 pick in ages (ages?). What does that mean? Did he forget who was drafted two years ago? Is he taking a shot at the Spurs there too? F that guy.

I wouldn’t say Wemby was the “safest” though. There were concerns of Wemby being too tall and skinny, and maybe cannot take the rigors of the NBA. Nobody has seen somebody as tall as Wemby doing the things that he does, and would his knees handle putting weights. There were some unknown, so I wouldn’t say Wemby was the “safest” bet as he was considered very much a unicorn.

[scott]

I was the 1st to inform y’all about Cedric Coward over a month ago and I want to throw some more sleepers at y’all that I like. 1st up:

Brandon Walker- If Derik Queen had a fatter shorter older brother. 6’7 fat boy that moves feet well. Shot 38% from 3 on 1.5 attempts per game. Averaged 14 pts, 5 reb and 1.6 ast in only 20 minutes per game. 21 % assist rate. Not a very high level of competition at Montana State but on tape looks nimble and quick for his size. Shows some playmaking ability. Also showed ability to get to the free throw line. 5.4 attempts per game. Only shot 54.5% from the line though. Needs to work on his body listed at 260 lbs but shows some promise as an old school type power forward.

https://y.yarn.co/891876c6-cfed-406b-92c5-ea2fa7debb85_text.gif

[scottspurs]

https://youtu.be/sR5d3k1Ku24?si=IUjChDmcvrYZJ3cz

not sure if I want this guy on the Austin Spurs or on the Lakers telling LeBron and Luka to get the F out of the way and give him the ball. Will be highly entertaining either way

[scottspurs]

https://youtu.be/amEQO4vUUKg?si=Q00ERCV1Sb9Nr3KF
Only the Eaglestaff wears #52

[Ice009]

I wouldn’t say Wemby was the “safest” though. There were concerns of Wemby being too tall and skinny, and maybe cannot take the rigors of the NBA. Nobody has seen somebody as tall as Wemby doing the things that he does, and would his knees handle putting weights. There were some unknown, so I wouldn’t say Wemby was the “safest” bet as he was considered very much a unicorn.

I think he was taking a shot at the Spurs (seems like he doesn't like them), but you could be right too as the word "safest" was used.

Then again, RVJ posted this a page or two back. Sounds like he's intentionally being a hater.


KOC mentioned that some people are calling Flagg the best prospect since Lebron and Givony quickly reminded him of Victor. KOC recover with okay, best "college prospect" or "best non-international prospect". what a clown.

[exstatic]

They need a PG in the worst way. I think they luck into Jaku or Fears. My hope is they overreach on Jase.

In spite of the fact that he’s 6’1”, Jase isn’t a PG, and never will be. He’s a scoring guard.

[exstatic]

He says Cooper Flagg is the safest number 1 pick in ages (ages?). What does that mean? Did he forget who was drafted two years ago? Is he taking a shot at the Spurs there too? F that guy.

He’s a Spurs hater. When he said Flagg was the best prospect since LeBron, Givony had to remind him about Wemby, and then he backtracked about college, or Americans, or something, but even Zion was probably a better prospect, he just didn’t pan out.

[Raven]

Think it's safe to say Drake Powell left everyone in the dust. Wouldn't be surprised if he climbs into the top 15 now.

[scottspurs]

Think it's safe to say Drake Powell left everyone in the dust. Wouldn't be surprised if he climbs into the top 15 now.


I highly doubt that. He is very raw on offense, doesn’t have a handle or really any offensive bag at all. Great point of attack defender but gets lost as a help defender. I wouldn’t go as far as to say he is a project but he needs alot of development and his basketball IQ is questionable. That said he will find his way in the league because of the on ball defense and athleticism. He is closer to being in a rotation than Carter Bryant

[BackHome]

I think both players will need G League for two years at least as they have a lot to work on there offense side

[CGD]

In spite of the fact that he’s 6’1”, Jase isn’t a PG, and never will be. He’s a scoring guard.

That’s my point. I want them to make the dumb move and draft Jase.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/DraftExpress/status/1924817132245942321

[Ice009]

He’s a Spurs hater. When he said Flagg was the best prospect since LeBron, Givony had to remind him about Wemby, and then he backtracked about college, or Americans, or something, but even Zion was probably a better prospect, he just didn’t pan out.

Yeah, you're right, Zion was probably considered a higher ranked prospect coming in. What was this on? Was it on a show or a podcast?

[scott]

https://youtu.be/sR5d3k1Ku24?si=IUjChDmcvrYZJ3cz

I'm interested simply for some Native American talent in the league! Going to North Dakota I'd assume he's Sioux?

[CGD]

https://x.com/DraftExpress/status/1924817132245942321

I like him or Ryan Kalkbrenner at #38.

[objective]

Sounds like Eaglestaff withdrew

[Ocotillo]

Sounds like Eaglestaff withdrew

Did he use all caps in his paperwork?

[scottspurs]

Treysen Eaglestaff withdrew from the draft. Keep an eye on him this year at West Virginia because he is fun to watch

[scottspurs]

I'm interested simply for some Native American talent in the league! Going to North Dakota I'd assume he's Sioux?
Yes, he is Sioux! Maybe he can clean some things up and be 1st rounder next season

[scottspurs]

Spurs Draft board


I posted my own draft board, but wanted to make a suggestion for what the spurs draft board might look like. Obviously just my opinion but it makes sense for them to approach it this way. I don’t have any real intel obviously just going off what Brian Wright has said in the that past. He likes versatile players, position-less basketball. At the lottery he mentioned best player available although I believe that will be altered if they do in fact take Harper.


So this board was made assuming the Spurs take Dylan Harper at 2.


Brian Wright said best player available and likes versatility but the “best player available” philosophy might be altered a bit once they take Harper. On ball dominate players that are best utilized in that way may be pushed down the spurs board. With Fox, Harper, Castle, Vassell and Wemby no more on ball options make sense. So I eliminated players like Queen, Wolf, CMB, Demin.


I also eliminated the remaining guards. I eliminated any wing that can’t play at the very least the 3 position. So any player under 6’5 without shoes.


Eliminated any player that won’t fall to 14 (Bailey, Tre Johnson, Edgecombe, Kon Knueppel, Maluach)


I pushed up younger players since that has been Brian Wright’s calling card. I pushed up players that could play multiple or most positions especially off ball. I think he will prioritize versatility over age though so I might keep some older players high.


I pushed down any centers that have no shot of playing the 4 at the NBA level. I stopped once I got to these guys.


I would also eliminate any player with character concerns but at this time I don’t know of any in this class.


I’m going to put their ages and what positions they could possibly play next to their names.


I’m going to stop at 26 players since the spurs last pick is at 38. With the eliminated players and these 26 prospects I feel good about the spurs getting 2 of these guys barring trade


My version of a potential Spurs draft board:




Carter Bryant, 19, 2-4, small ball 5
Noa Essengue, 18, 3-4, small ball 5
Thomas Sorber, 19, 4-5
Asa Newell, 19, 4-5
Cedric Coward, 21, 2-4
Nique Clifford, 23, 2-4
Rasheer Fleming, 21, 4-5
Maxime Raynaud, 22, 4-5
Yaxel Lendeborg, 22, 4-5
Noah Penda, 20, 3-4, small ball 5
Liam Mcneely, 19, 3-4, small ball 5
Will Riley, 19, 2-3
Joan Beringer, 18, 4-5
Neoklis Avdalas, 19, 2-3
Adou Thiero, 21, 3-4
Koby Brea, 22, 2-3
Alex Condon, 20, 4-5
Hugo Gonzalez, 19, 2-3
Drake Powell, 19, 2-3
Bogoljub Markovic, 20, 4-5
Alex Toohey, 21, 3-4, small ball 5
Hansen Yang, 20, 5
Ryan Kalkbrenner, 23, 5
Vladislav Goldin, 24, 5
Yonic Konan Niederhauser, 22, 5
Rocco Zikarsky, 19, 5



So basically long story short I feel like the Spurs will end up with 2 of these guys if they don’t trade their picks.

[scott]

Yes, he is Sioux! Maybe he can clean some things up and be 1st rounder next season

Nice. I'll be rooting for him based on this alone.

[Mr. Body]

A week ago about this time we found out we were getting Dylan Harper.

[The Truth #6]

I'm definitely intrigued by Cedric Coward at 14. Liam as well. Both look to be good shooters. Fleming is still the archetype we need but he might not be the player we need. Of those three, Coward seems like a Wright pick. Carter Bryant as well but I expect him to be gone.

[Limguogolo]

At 38, I continue to plead for French prospects.

Zacharie Perrin is very low. He is the former leader in points and rebounds of the French team in the European and World Youth Championships. In a team that included Sarr, Penda, Ajinça and Risacher*. He chose a team this year that didn't give him a chance and he's not very effective with little playing time. But the talent remains there.

Athletic, mobile, can play PF, good passer, in short, very complete. You draft him at 38, you leave him in Europe for two or three years, and there is a much greater chance of seeing him explode than any nobody who only played in college and who drafted so low will quit basketball or go play in Taiwan. Just like Ajinça last year, drafted by Dallas and who played a bigger role this year in ASVEL.

*this team won against Team USA two years ago in semis (14 pts for Harper, 18pts for Perrin (https://www.proballers.com/fr/basketball/match/742871/u19-france-u19-usa-2023-07-01)) and lost against Spain for the title (won last year the Europe champ without Sarr and Risacher).

[BackHome]

I think we are keeping our first two round picks so a foreign draft and stash makes sense

[objective]

Listening to Locked On Jazz. Sounds like Pelton's newest model has Harper 7th. Had Castle in the 20s last year, and Wemby 4th? If Locke was reading the lists right.

Flagg #1 and Kon #2 if anyone cares

[scottspurs]

Listening to Locked On Jazz. Sounds like Pelton's newest model has Harper 7th. Had Castle in the 20s last year, and Wemby 4th? If Locke was reading the lists right.

Flagg #1 and Kon #2 if anyone cares

Take it from someone that likes looking at analytics they are not exact. Doesn’t necessarily translate especially since the NBA and college basketball are completely different styles of the game.

[exstatic]

Take it from someone that likes looking at analytics they are not exact. Doesn’t necessarily translate especially since the NBA and college basketball are completely different styles of the game.

I look at analytics as a tiebreaker, or a tool to achieve separation.

[BatManu20]

1925230356011073537

[John B]

1925230356011073537

He checks off a lot of boxes. He’s on my top list of Spurs pick at #14

[ace3g]

https://x.com/DraftExpress/status/1925310850065473578

[ace3g]

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/article/2025-nba-draft-how-kon-knueppel-has-been-adding-to-his-game-since-dukes-final-four-loss--i-would-love-to-play-like-klay-184441527.html

The likely lottery pick discusses his hoops journey ahead of the draft.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/DraftExpress/status/1925327495106371740

[CGD]

https://x.com/DraftExpress/status/1925327495106371740

I didn’t appreciate that Nique Clifford was 23. Pass.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/DraftExpress/status/1925328823953891767

[Bruno]

Combine results have been available for a few days:
https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-anthro

McNeeley results are damn strange. With a good size and a decent wingspan, he has a surprisingly low standing reach (8'3.5"). Either they made a measurement mistake or he did the trick of not stretching during the measurement to get better jumping stats.

espn latest mock:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45179882/2025-nba-mock-draft-projecting-all-59-picks-post-combine-cooper-flagg-dallas-mavericks
Fleming at #27, Penda at #28, Drake Powell at #31: There are just so much interesting prospect for Spurs in that range. Lendelborg at #26 and Cedric Coward at #30 might also be good pick but I don't know them enough to judge.
If Spurs trade away their 14th pick, getting a late first round would be a good idea for them.

[Gagnrath]

He checks off a lot of boxes. He’s on my top list of Spurs pick at #14
He doesn't seem to be able to dribble at all every time he puts the ball on the ground he carries it.

[John B]

He doesn't seem to be able to dribble at all every time he puts the ball on the ground he carries it.

It’s not what it says on his scouting report, i.e here’s one: https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/article/2025-nba-draft-scouting-report-maxime-raynaud-f-stanford-163430295.html

“it’s not often a player his size can move as fluidly as he does as a shot creator, whether he’s ball-faking then attacking a closeout, slingshotting toward the basket off a screen, or dribbling in transition. He has a tight crossover, mixes in euro-steps, and can get into soft floaters, touch layups, or ferocious tomahawk dunks”

On top of being a monster on the board, can hit outside, and Wemby’s friend. The more I watch this guy, the more I’m convinced he will be the #14 pick.

[Uriel]

If we had gotten the #3 pick instead of the #2 pick, who would we draft?

[exstatic]

If we had gotten the #3 pick instead of the #2 pick, who would we draft?

VJ, possibly picking up assets to trade back.

[scottspurs]

Someone might have already posted this since it happened two days ago but Darrion Williams has withdrawn from the NBA draft so you can take him off the board

[scott]

Combine results have been available for a few days:
https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-anthro

McNeeley results are damn strange. With a good size and a decent wingspan, he has a surprisingly low standing reach (8'3.5"). Either they made a measurement mistake or he did the trick of not stretching during the measurement to get better jumping stats.

espn latest mock:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45179882/2025-nba-mock-draft-projecting-all-59-picks-post-combine-cooper-flagg-dallas-mavericks
Fleming at #27, Penda at #28, Drake Powell at #31: There are just so much interesting prospect for Spurs in that range. Lendelborg at #26 and Cedric Coward at #30 might also be good pick but I don't know them enough to judge.
If Spurs trade away their 14th pick, getting a late first round would be a good idea for them.

Watching Yaxel, Penda, Coward and Powell all go back-to-back like that would be crushing for me. I'd consider Yaxel and Coward at 14 (understanding they might be viewed as reaches) and Penda and Powell are guys I'm hoping somehow slip to 38. Based on this, I'm probably squarely in the camp of trying to trade 14 and 38 for 19 and 26.

[mo7888]

Watching Yaxel, Penda, Coward and Powell all go back-to-back like that would be crushing for me. I'd consider Yaxel and Coward at 14 (understanding they might be viewed as reaches) and Penda and Powell are guys I'm hoping somehow slip to 38. Based on this, I'm probably squarely in the camp of trying to trade 14 and 38 for 19 and 26.

I think that trades there if we want it..

[benefactor]

Watching Yaxel, Penda, Coward and Powell all go back-to-back like that would be crushing for me. I'd consider Yaxel and Coward at 14 (understanding they might be viewed as reaches) and Penda and Powell are guys I'm hoping somehow slip to 38. Based on this, I'm probably squarely in the camp of trying to trade 14 and 38 for 19 and 26.
I am all for this as well but I just don't know that the Spurs will take three rookies in the first round unless there's something we don't know about...meaning they are ready to flip some of the role players on this roster that have yet to pan out and start over

[benefactor]

As weak as this draft is when it comes to stars I have a gut feeling it's going to produce some pretty good role players. Some of these guys at the bottom of the first are going to turn into good bench players that are going to help good teams win.

[The Truth #6]

Harper. Coward. Fleming. I'd love that as a draft somehow if tgey could utilize their resources. But yeah, they aren't moving on from Branham or Blake yet, I imagine.

[exstatic]

Harper. Coward. Fleming. I'd love that as a draft somehow if tgey could utilize their resources. But yeah, they aren't moving on from Branham or Blake yet, I imagine.

They don’t have to, with CP, McLaughlin, Mamu, and Bassey all ending contracts in July.

[benefactor]

Harper. Coward. Fleming. I'd love that as a draft somehow if tgey could utilize their resources. But yeah, they aren't moving on from Branham or Blake yet, I imagine.
Which is why I'm almost certain they don't take three rookies in the first round. It wouldn't be surprising if they traded 14 to trade down and get future draft capital to keep building.

[scottspurs]

Several guys have withdrawn their names from the draft today but one in particular I really liked was Melvin Council Jr. He was a deep sleeper that is an nba level athlete and probably the best on ball defense from a guard in college basketball. That said you can take him off the board

[ace3g]

https://x.com/JonRothstein/status/1925668048087707654

[DPG21920]

I am all for this as well but I just don't know that the Spurs will take three rookies in the first round unless there's something we don't know about...meaning they are ready to flip some of the role players on this roster that have yet to pan out and start over

Replacing CP, Branham and Blake with Harper and 2 more rookies seems fine given Branham + Blake aren’t really any better than rookies would be lol

[scott]

I am all for this as well but I just don't know that the Spurs will take three rookies in the first round unless there's something we don't know about...meaning they are ready to flip some of the role players on this roster that have yet to pan out and start over

I agree. I want three rookies, in reality we'll probably get one. I'll be okay with that too as long as that one is Harper.

[benefactor]

Replacing CP, Branham and Blake with Harper and 2 more rookies seems fine given Branham + Blake aren’t really any better than rookies would be lol
Oh I agree with you completely, but is the Spurs. Are they ready to move on from those guys lol. Hard to know what they are thinking right now.

[DPG21920]

Oh I agree with you completely, but is the Spurs. Are they ready to move on from those guys lol. Hard to know what they are thinking right now.

Im pretty confident those guys will be gone tbh….I think Spurs know plenty about them. I am fine keeping Blake as he seems to work very hard and made tangible improvements but I think CP and Branham are gone IMO

[ace3g]

https://x.com/James_HamNBA/status/1925661765783744553

[mo7888]

https://x.com/James_HamNBA/status/1925661765783744553

Not sure he can make it in the NBA, but Matthews is a tough defensive player.

[TrainOfThought5]

https://youtu.be/sR5d3k1Ku24?si=IUjChDmcvrYZJ3cz

HES WHITE?!?! holy shit didn’t see that coming

[Jordan Jackson]

Spurs should use all 3 picks to replace the guys who clearly aren’t contributing. They got a few new scouts let’s see if they can hit on these picks. Spurs need the talent. Plus, serviceable talent on rookie deals is a bonus.

[Mr. Body]

Wesley and Branham are under contract. It would cost to get rid of them. They're fine as third string guys. They won't be going anywhere this year.

[Ice009]

Spurs should use all 3 picks to replace the guys who clearly aren’t contributing. They got a few new scouts let’s see if they can hit on these picks. Spurs need the talent. Plus, serviceable talent on rookie deals is a bonus.

How do you know they have new scouts? Was it mentioned somewhere before?

[Vienna]

Wesley and Branham are under contract. It would cost to get rid of them. They're fine as third string guys. They won't be going anywhere this year.

but if they are fine as third string guys for Spurs, they would be finde as third string guys for another team eas well, right?
Spurs likely will have to many guards for next season, so all it takes is a team, that has to many third string bigs or forwards on their roster and eventually swap one of those.

my guess is, it will be Branham, because his skill set is definitely obsolete, Wesley would be more useful as Branham, likely in a limited role as a stopper.

[RC_Drunkford]

Wesley and Branham are under contract. It would cost to get rid of them. They're fine as third string guys. They won't be going anywhere this year.

their contracts are on the books as trade fillers. I expect at least one of them to get moved this offseason.

[exstatic]

their contracts are on the books as trade fillers. I expect at least one of them to get moved this offseason.

They very well may be traded. They will not be salary dumped or waived to create roster spots when up to 5 already exist with July ending contracts of CP, McLaughlin, Mamu, Bassey, and Biyambo.

[Brazil]

I understand the concerns about trading for Giannis but if the bucks are really willing to move Giannis, Spurs are one of the few teams that have the assets to do it. The prospect of potentially have a Fox/Victor/Giannis big 3 is hard to pass on tbh... A team with this core would be dominant on defense and extremely versatile on offense and you have a healthy mix of youth and experience. Salary wise it works fine as Victor has still 2 years cheap. You can imagine Spurs to build a 2 steps plan with a window of 2/3 years to win a championship and then plenty of time to rebuild around Victor by moving Fox and/or Giannis.

Harper is an amazing prospect but still a prospect, Giannis is a sure thing, you know exactly what you have.

The more I think about it the more I believe that it would make a lot of sense to go into win now mode as it does not impair the future Victor is only 21, at the end of the short term window with Giannis he won't even be in his prime yet.

[exstatic]

I understand the concerns about trading for Giannis but if the bucks are really willing to move Giannis, Spurs are one of the few teams that have the assets to do it. The prospect of potentially have a Fox/Victor/Giannis big 3 is hard to pass on tbh... A team with this core would be dominant on defense and extremely versatile on offense and you have a healthy mix of youth and experience. Salary wise it works fine as Victor has still 2 years cheap. You can imagine Spurs to build a 2 steps plan with a window of 2/3 years to win a championship and then plenty of time to rebuild around Victor by moving Fox and/or Giannis.

Harper is an amazing prospect but still a prospect, Giannis is a sure thing, you know exactly what you have.

The more I think about it the more I believe that it would make a lot of sense to go into win now mode as it does not impair the future Victor is only 21, at the end of the short term window with Giannis he won't even be in his prime yet.

Giannis is a short term play. Guys that play that far above the rim don’t tend to last as a high level player. Once he’s gone, the Spurs will be in the exact situation Denver and Milwaukee are now: too good to get a high pick, too cap bound to buy the pieces you need around Wemby.

The best contract value in the NBA is a high floor, high ceiling top pick. Wemby is making a bit over $13Mnext year, and is legit worth 60. To a lesser extent, Castle and Harper will be that type of value. Giannis won’t. You’ll be paying dollar for dollar for his talent and value, and it will last 3-4 years at most.

[mo7888]

Giannis is a short term play. Guys that play that far above the rim don’t tend to last as a high level player. Once he’s gone, the Spurs will be in the exact situation Denver and Milwaukee are now: too good to get a high pick, too cap bound to buy the pieces you need around Wemby.

The best contract value in the NBA is a high floor, high ceiling top pick. Wemby is making a bit over $13Mnext year, and is legit worth 60. To a lesser extent, Castle and Harper will be that type of value. Giannis won’t. You’ll be paying dollar for dollar for his talent and value, and it will last 3-4 years at most.

I agree with your premise, but it's way to early to say Castle or Harper will be that type of player. We should pump the brakes on that pronouncement.

[Extra Stout]

The more I think about it the more I believe that it would make a lot of sense to go into win now mode as it does not impair the future Victor is only 21, at the end of the short term window with Giannis he won't even be in his prime yet.

Of course it impairs the future; you have to trade away most/all of the young talent and picks to get him.

[Ice009]

Of course it impairs the future; you have to trade away most/all of the young talent and picks to get him.

Some crazy stuff. Now offense to Brazil, but man, how in the h#ll does it not impair the future. Don't understand that comment. How are people not able to realize that?

[Guru of Nothing]

If the Bucks want Giannis, the Spurs should not give up more than Harper and salary match, and that's it; and personally, I would not do this because I'm here for Wemby and the three-guard beast. Also, I don't want to pay to see how Giannis' body holds up after two or three more years.

Harper alone is worth more than three first round picks, but I get the feeling that the internet at large regards him as just one of some theoretical multiple firsts that must come in a Giannis deal. If Milwaukee wants more, Cleveland is down the hall.

[RC_Drunkford]

I understand the concerns about trading for Giannis but if the bucks are really willing to move Giannis, Spurs are one of the few teams that have the assets to do it. The prospect of potentially have a Fox/Victor/Giannis big 3 is hard to pass on tbh... A team with this core would be dominant on defense and extremely versatile on offense and you have a healthy mix of youth and experience. Salary wise it works fine as Victor has still 2 years cheap. You can imagine Spurs to build a 2 steps plan with a window of 2/3 years to win a championship and then plenty of time to rebuild around Victor by moving Fox and/or Giannis.

Harper is an amazing prospect but still a prospect, Giannis is a sure thing, you know exactly what you have.

The more I think about it the more I believe that it would make a lot of sense to go into win now mode as it does not impair the future Victor is only 21, at the end of the short term window with Giannis he won't even be in his prime yet.

saying we should make a win now trade while not even making the playoffs is crazy work

[exstatic]

I agree with your premise, but it's way to early to say Castle or Harper will be that type of player. We should pump the brakes on that pronouncement.

Castle kind of already is. For less than the MLE, you get a guy who gets to the rim at will, draws fouls, and defends, all as a rookie. I did say “to a lesser extent “. Those two will provide outsized value on their rookie deals. Not +$50M like Victor, but I could easily see +$20-25M, each. Giannis will cost you dollar for dollar, and doesn’t solve our shooting issues, and in fact, makes them worse.

[mo7888]

Castle kind of already is. For less than the MLE, you get a guy who gets to the rim at will, draws fouls, and defends, all as a rookie. I did say “to a lesser extent “. Those two will provide outsized value on their rookie deals. Not +$50M like Victor, but I could easily see +$20-25M, each. Giannis will cost you dollar for dollar, and doesn’t solve our shooting issues, and in fact, makes them worse.

I'm not in favor of trading Harper + Castle for Giannis. I just want to be realistic and not over value what we have by anointing them that sort of level when the one with promise was inefficient and the other one has never played a game.

[LeBowen]

Castle kind of already is. For less than the MLE, you get a guy who gets to the rim at will, draws fouls, and defends, all as a rookie. I did say “to a lesser extent “. Those two will provide outsized value on their rookie deals. Not +$50M like Victor, but I could easily see +$20-25M, each. Giannis will cost you dollar for dollar, and doesn’t solve our shooting issues, and in fact, makes them worse.

That's it?
You just try to present things that are completely wrong as undeniable facts, then disappear from the topic as soon as someone points out how much off the mark your "facts" actually are?
But when someone makes a honest mistake like mixing up if we traded away MIN swap or pick, you won't let them hear the end of it.
Typical retard.

[scott]

They very well may be traded. They will not be salary dumped or waived to create roster spots when up to 5 already exist with July ending contracts of CP, McLaughlin, Mamu, Bassey, and Biyambo.

This is probably right, but what's nice is the Spurs can waive them if they need to. Hopefully we take viable roster candidates into camp and if someone should beat them out, then the Spurs should have no hesitation of simply waiving them. Their dead money for a single season should not be an impediment.

[scott]

I understand the concerns about trading for Giannis but if the bucks are really willing to move Giannis, Spurs are one of the few teams that have the assets to do it. The prospect of potentially have a Fox/Victor/Giannis big 3 is hard to pass on tbh... A team with this core would be dominant on defense and extremely versatile on offense and you have a healthy mix of youth and experience. Salary wise it works fine as Victor has still 2 years cheap. You can imagine Spurs to build a 2 steps plan with a window of 2/3 years to win a championship and then plenty of time to rebuild around Victor by moving Fox and/or Giannis.

Harper is an amazing prospect but still a prospect, Giannis is a sure thing, you know exactly what you have.

The more I think about it the more I believe that it would make a lot of sense to go into win now mode as it does not impair the future Victor is only 21, at the end of the short term window with Giannis he won't even be in his prime yet.

Brian Wright should just do what I think he probably always does... make the offer that he feels comfortable with that doesn't give up any of our prime assets (in this case, Castle and #2) and then just let the chips fall where they may. Maybe a future pick heavy package around Vassell and Sochan is the best MIL can do, and once the trade cat is out of the bag it's hard to put it back in with players.

Maybe we'll get fortunate and get another trade steal, like with Fox. And if not, you didn't overpay.

I often say that Brian Wright doesn't like to play high stakes poker... and it's not even a criticism. I think he has a disciplined and well reasoned approach to trades and while it may take him out of the game for some deals, it prevents him from making mistakes and overpaying for someone who ends up disappointing (like a lot of big deals end up doing). I'm happy with Brian's approach.

[Ariel]

Brian Wright should just do what I think he probably always does... make the offer that he feels comfortable with that doesn't give up any of our prime assets (in this case, Castle and #2) and then just let the chips fall where they may. Maybe a future pick heavy package around Vassell and Sochan is the best MIL can do, and once the trade cat is out of the bag it's hard to put it back in with players.

Maybe we'll get fortunate and get another trade steal, like with Fox. And if not, you didn't overpay.

I often say that Brian Wright doesn't like to play high stakes poker... and it's not even a criticism. I think he has a disciplined and well reasoned approach to trades and while it may take him out of the game for some deals, it prevents him from making mistakes and overpaying for someone who ends up disappointing (like a lot of big deals end up doing). I'm happy with Brian's approach.
My gripe with Brian Wright has been his drafting, except when he gets a no brainer pick. He does worse than consensus here, and that's saying something. However, he's very poised and strategically sound, plus he's a lucky SOB. Just make changes to the scouting department, Spurs don't hit on a pick except if it's gift wrapped.

[scott]

My gripe with Brian Wright has been his drafting, except when he gets a no brainer pick. He does worse than consensus here, and that's saying something. However, he's very poised and strategically sound, plus he's a lucky SOB. Just make changes to the scouting department, Spurs don't hit on a pick except if it's gift wrapped.

Definitely a fair criticism (and it's been one of my historic criticisms of him, though I'm turning the corner - but that is biased by a stroke of generational luck with #1, #4 and now #2), but at some point I think we have to evaluate the process and not only the outcomes.

While I can pluck others whom I would have taken over Vassell, Primo, Sochan, Wesley and Branham... Primo's really the only one where the process needs to be questioned. Every other pick I can make a reasonable case for. They've just worked out to varying degrees (even Branham I see the case for it). Primo was just inexplicably bad... but I'm hoping the team evaluated the process failures there and has corrected them.

Hopefully as we move to an era where we aren't getting top 5 picks, we start seeing some better outcomes. We'll get our first chance to see what they do this year at #14! If they make an egregious reach, then I think it will be fair for us to start wondering about this again.

[rjv]

mike finger had some solid points on his podcast where he shot down some of the reasons fans give for making a giannis trade and the one i agreed with the most was the one in which he points out that adding Giannis to a team that would lose some pieces does not make the Spurs a contender right away. castle and wemby have no playoff experience (it would be moot if the bucks managed to rob the spurs to the point of taking both harper and castle from us). it would probably take a couple of years to get to where they were legit title contenders.

for me, it just makes more sense to build the way the pacers have, or OKC, or denver, or boston or any of the other teams that have either won a title or been in the mix these past few years. three years ago, OKC had picks that were very similar to the spurs and with those picks they added: holmgrem (2nd), dieng (11th), Jalen Williams (12th) and Jaylen Williams (34th). three years later, three of those four have been big pieces to their current run.

maybe we get some news that Giannis plans to stay or has a list that does not include the spurs and this quiets all the noise.

[LeBowen]

https://hoopshype.com/lists/aggregate-2025-nba-mock-draft-6-0-post-combine-scouting-and-intel/

[Brazil]

Giannis is a short term play. Guys that play that far above the rim don’t tend to last as a high level player. Once he’s gone, the Spurs will be in the exact situation Denver and Milwaukee are now: too good to get a high pick, too cap bound to buy the pieces you need around Wemby.

The best contract value in the NBA is a high floor, high ceiling top pick. Wemby is making a bit over $13Mnext year, and is legit worth 60. To a lesser extent, Castle and Harper will be that type of value. Giannis won’t. You’ll be paying dollar for dollar for his talent and value, and it will last 3-4 years at most.

This is what I'm saying, it is short term 2/3 years window, then Victor will be 23/24 you can rebuild around him on a phase 2. Spurs just did that after Tim first title with David. Then and as also wrote Castle and Harper are potential to be developped, Giannis is a proven vet who already won a title.

[DAF86]

My gripe with Brian Wright has been his drafting, except when he gets a no brainer pick. He does worse than consensus here, and that's saying something. However, he's very poised and strategically sound, plus he's a lucky SOB. Just make changes to the scouting department, Spurs don't hit on a pick except if it's gift wrapped.

I wouldn't say Castle was "gift wrapped", tbh.

[LeBowen]

This is what I'm saying, it is short term 2/3 years window, then Victor will be 23/24 you can rebuild around him on a phase 2. Spurs just did that after Tim first title with David. Then and as also wrote Castle and Harper are potential to be developped, Giannis is a proven vet who already won a title.

We went over it in Giannis topic, best case scenario Spurs would have Fox/Castle/Barnes/Giannis/Wemby with just Champ left of all the bench players and one tradeable FRP available.
That's the best case scenario, Bucks probably ask for more.

[exstatic]

That's it?
You just try to present things that are completely wrong as undeniable facts, then disappear from the topic as soon as someone points out how much off the mark your "facts" actually are?
But when someone makes a honest mistake like mixing up if we traded away MIN swap or pick, you won't let them hear the end of it.
Typical retard.

What mo and I are doing isn’t exchanging facts, it’s discussing opinions. The fact that you can’t tell the difference means that you need to sit TF down, because the adults are talking.

[Brazil]

Of course it impairs the future; you have to trade away most/all of the young talent and picks to get him.


Some crazy stuff. Now offense to Brazil, but man, how in the h#ll does it not impair the future. Don't understand that comment. How are people not able to realize that?

Obviously you would need to trade assets but you have a selfless super star that will enter in his prime, you can absolutely build around that strong fundation through trades and attract free agents on a later stage

[LeBowen]

What mo and I are doing isn’t exchanging facts, it’s discussing opinions. The fact that you can’t tell the difference means that you need to sit TF down, because the adults are talking.

You fucking retard you said year 3 Sochan and Aaron Gordon are on the similar 3pt shooting level only to be easily proven wrong by multiple posts with stats included and then you do your usual shit of just disappearing and playing dumb.
Even that would've been fine if you weren't the resident retard who keeps beating a dead horse every time there's a bad take or even an honest mistake.
Like a week ago I had an in-depth post about a potential trade and mixed up if we have the MIN pick or swap left only for you to berate me all day long even though it was completely irrelevant to the point I was trying to make.
You're not getting off easy on this one.

[Brazil]

Of course it impairs the future; you have to trade away most/all of the young talent and picks to get him.


We went over it in Giannis topic, best case scenario Spurs would have Fox/Castle/Barnes/Giannis/Wemby with just Champ left of all the bench players and one tradeable FRP available.
That's the best case scenario, Bucks probably ask for more.

well I think if you can retain either Castle or Harper then you go for it.

[Brazil]

A team with a core of Giannis Victor and Fox is a serious candidate to a title year 1 even with fucking Mitch Johnson. Giannis gives you rebound, defense, strong presence, he even bring some playmaking. The only thing I hate about his game is his FT shooting.

[exstatic]

You fucking retard you said year 3 Sochan and Aaron Gordon are on the similar 3pt shooting level only to be easily proven wrong by multiple posts with stats included and then you do your usual shit of just disappearing and playing dumb.
Similar: resembling without being identical.


Like a week ago I had an in-depth post about a potential trade and mixed up if we have the MIN pick or swap left only for you to berate me all day long even though it was completely irrelevant to the point I was trying to make.
You're not getting off easy on this one.

That wasn’t an opinion, it was an incorrectly stated fact. I think I mentioned it, you took offense instead of dropping a simple “my bad”, and you began pursuing me throughout the forum like The Hound of the Baskervilles.

I’ve agreed with stuff you’ve posted, and dropped the occasional like on one of your posts, but this childish behavior just drops you into the category of non value added poster.

[RC_Drunkford]

This is what I'm saying, it is short term 2/3 years window, then Victor will be 23/24 you can rebuild around him on a phase 2. Spurs just did that after Tim first title with David. Then and as also wrote Castle and Harper are potential to be developped, Giannis is a proven vet who already won a title.

you can't rebuild around him in phase 2 because you just traded away draft picks until 2031 and the majority of his supporting cast to get Giannis. So the earliest pick you could trade is 2032 to make another move and you are stuck like the Bucks are right now. That's exactly why you don't trade for Giannis. It ain't rocket science.


Obviously you would need to trade assets but you have a selfless super star that will enter in his prime, you can absolutely build around that strong fundation through trades and attract free agents on a later stage

No you can't because you just traded away everything. What the hell do you want to trade after you got Giannis and don't have any picks to move? Do you think 2nd round picks will get you role players? Maybe just look up how trades actually work. We are not OKC and have 300 picks from other teams.

[Guru of Nothing]

This is what I'm saying, it is short term 2/3 years window, then Victor will be 23/24 you can rebuild around him on a phase 2. Spurs just did that after Tim first title with David. Then and as also wrote Castle and Harper are potential to be developped, Giannis is a proven vet who already won a title.

Or Phase 2 might resemble what Milwaukee is facing today. A single superstar, and no capital to build with. And we're all arguing over the best 50cents on the dollar deal for Wemby.

[scott]

Reading Celtics fans say they don't really want the 28th pick and the guaranteed contract, so that could definitely be up for grabs to the team who helps them dump some salary.

I'm willing to take a flier on Tingus if they give us #28. Shut him down to start the year... he comes back in January and maybe looks good enough to flip at the deadline or you keep him for your own playoff push.

[RC_Drunkford]

A team with a core of Giannis Victor and Fox is a serious candidate to a title year 1 even with fucking Mitch Johnson. Giannis gives you rebound, defense, strong presence, he even bring some playmaking. The only thing I hate about his game is his FT shooting.

you play too much 2K. Those 3 players don't win you anything without good role players. And if you get Giannis that means you need to have shooters everywhere, otherwise teams can wall him up.

Fox/Castle/Barnes/Giannis/Wemby is already questionable if Castle can't hit 3s consistently at a good percentage. Then your bench is Champagnie and a bunch of G-Leaguers. OKC would wipe the floor with that team.

[cd98]

Victor has never played in a playoff game. I don't know if the Spurs with Giannis would get there in year one. It usually takes teams a few tries to break through, but not much room to do it if you trade for Giannis.

[LeBowen]

Similar: resembling without being identical.

My bad, the phrase wasn't even similar, but you straight up said he was better you fucking degenerate.


Because he’s shot better than Aaron Gordon at this point in their respective careers? We don’t need him to be Steph Curry. If he can shoot 35-36% on 5 attempt,that’s fine. He’s shot 31% the last two years, higher than any year ofGordon’s first three. You howling hyenas will probably get your way, they’ll trade him, and he’ll go be some other team’s Aaron Gordon, instead of being ours, OKC if we’re really unlucky. He’d be a thorn in Wemby’s side for a decade.

Look at this shit, this is an actual candidate for the worst take of the year.


That wasn’t an opinion, it was an incorrectly stated fact. I think I mentioned it, you took offense instead of dropping a simple “my bad”, and you began pursuing me throughout the forum like The Hound of the Baskervilles.

Of course I'm going to take offense when you're the resident nerd who reminds the teacher she forgot about homework.
Going around topics acting like your word is the law, despite spewing nonsense in every other post.
If you just did it to me and just did it once, I would've ignored it, but you're a fucking retard who feeds off these things.

[Guru of Nothing]

Another reason to avoid Giannis is to avoid the compulsion to continue to give all these past their prime superstars max deals. I could see a future where maybe we have won a title with Wemby, Fox, and Giannis - and then we have 34-year-old Giannis expecting (and getting!) a 4 year, $300M deal. No thank you. ... But not you, Wemby. You can have all the billions.

I want to spend the next decade arguing over who to draft at the end of the first round, not concocting trade deals to right the ship.

[RC_Drunkford]

What the Spurs actually need is what the Celtics did a couple of years ago: we need the Derrick White's, JRue Holiday's, healthy Kristaps Porzingis' of the world and not players on max contracts. These are all players who are borderline All-Stars and can drop 20 on any team at any given night while being positive defenders. You need to stack your roster with those type of high level role players and they cost a lot less.

Boston got White from us for #28 and a swap. They took on Porzingis and received 2 picks for him. Then they packaged one of those picks with another pick to get Holiday. At the end they got those 3 guys for basically 2 picks and 1 swap and even got a low first rounder from the Grizzlies back. Their warchest was reduced by 1 first, 1 swap, 1 second round pick for 3 championship pieces. The players they offloaded were Gallinari, Muscala, Richardson, Robert Williams and Brogdon.

That's smart GMing.

That's the whole reason why I'm saying get a player like John Collins.

[RC_Drunkford]

I see the 2024 Celtics as a very good example on how to construct your roster.

2022:

Stars: Tatum and Brown

key role players: Horford, Smart

supporting cast: Robert Williams, Josh Richardson/Derrick White, Grant Williams, Pritchard

They needed more defense and playmaking, so they moved Richardson for White who's an obvious upgrade. That team made the finals and lost to the Warriors.

In the offseason they took on Brogdon in a sign and trade deal and received a first round pick for him.

2023:

Stars: Tatum and Brown

key role players: Horford, Smart, White, Brogdon

supporting cast: Robert Williams, Grant Williams

that team lost in the ECF against the Heat. One problem was that Robert Williams is injury prone and was only available for 4 games in the entire playoffs. Brogdon missed the playoffs completely. Something also seemed to be off in the locker room between Tatum/Brown and Marcus Smart.

They proceed to trade Robert Williams and Smart for Jrue Holiday and Brogdon for Porzingis. They also let Grant Williams go who got sonned by Jimmy Buckets in the postseason and received 3 second round picks for him.

2024:

Stars: Tatum and Brown

key role players: Horford, White, Holiday, Porzingis

supporting cast: Pritchard, Hauser, Kornet

now mind you:

Holiday: 2 time All-Star

Porzingis: 1 time All-Star

Horford: 5 time All-Star

and White never made an All-Star team, but he was close once and is an All-defensive player.

Those are the player types you need to add if you already have 2 stars and we have them in Wemby and Fox. Castle and Harper might even get there as well. We do not need a max player, we need as many Al Horford's and Derrick White's as possible to form a strong 8-man rotation. That's how your team keeps winning even if guys are injured. You won't experience any drop offs, cause all the other guys can pick up the slack with higher usage.

[montgod]

I see the 2024 Celtics as a very good example on how to construct your roster.

Those are the player types you need to add if you already have 2 stars and we have them in Wemby and Fox. Castle and Harper might even get there as well. We do not need a max player, we need as many Al Horford's and Derrick White's as possible to form a strong 8-man rotation. That's how your team keeps winning even if guys are injured. You won't experience any drop offs, cause all the other guys can pick up the slack with higher usage.

I'd agree and OKC would be the next example since they've done similar moves. Shai is the only star but the have a higher level of supporting players behind him in Jalen and Holmgren. Not to mention, they're still young and have drafted extremely well.

Think this offseason will be about filling out the roster with more supportive players via the draft or FA/trade who won't break the bank or hinder this progress. With only 9 current players under contract (I don't think they'll pick up Branham or Wesley options unless a trade happens and depth is needed or their salaries), the Spurs will be busy filling out that roster.

[exstatic]

I'd agree and OKC would be the next example since they've done similar moves. Shai is the only star but the have a higher level of supporting players behind him in Jalen and Holmgren. Not to mention, they're still young and have drafted extremely well.

Think this offseason will be about filling out the roster with more supportive players via the draft or FA/trade who won't break the bank or hinder this progress. With only 9 current players under contract (I don't think they'll pick up Branham or Wesley options unless a trade happens and depth is needed or their salaries), the Spurs will be busy filling out that roster.

Those options have already been picked up. It’s a weird thing about the rookie FRP contract. First two years are absolutely guaranteed. After year one, you have to decide on the year three option, and after year two, you have to decide on the year four option. Off the top of my head, I can only think of two players who didn’t get the four years from the Spurs: James Anderson, who broke his fifth metatarsal, and Josh Primo, who broke his zipper.

Edit: upon further review, big man washouts Ian Mahinmi and Livio Jean-Charles got 3 and 2 years, respectively. They were non-optioned after year 2 and year 1, respectively. Mahinmi, likely a lot of others who didn’t stick in SA, carved out a career afterwards, 618 games in his case. Livio, not so much after that injury.

[objective]

What the Spurs actually need is what the Celtics did a couple of years ago: we need the Derrick White's, JRue Holiday's, healthy Kristaps Porzingis' of the world and not players on max contracts. These are all players who are borderline All-Stars and can drop 20 on any team at any given night while being positive defenders. You need to stack your roster with those type of high level role players and they cost a lot less.

Boston got White from us for #28 and a swap. They took on Porzingis and received 2 picks for him. Then they packaged one of those picks with another pick to get Holiday. At the end they got those 3 guys for basically 2 picks and 1 swap and even got a low first rounder from the Grizzlies back. Their warchest was reduced by 1 first, 1 swap, 1 second round pick for 3 championship pieces. The players they offloaded were Gallinari, Muscala, Richardson, Robert Williams and Brogdon.

That's smart GMing.

That's the whole reason why I'm saying get a player like John Collins.

It doesn't change your point, but for accuracy White was traded for the swap and what became #25 (Wesley).

I agree in getting a player like Collins though hopefully he could be re-signed cheaper

[scott]

Those options have already been picked up. It’s a weird thing about the rookie FRP contract. First two years are absolutely guaranteed. After year one, you have to decide on the year three option, and after year two, you have to decide on the year four option. Off the top of my head, I can only think of two players who didn’t get the four years from the Spurs: James Anderson, who broke his fifth metatarsal, and Josh Primo, who broke his zipper.

Edit: upon further review, big man washouts Ian Mahinmi and Livio Jean-Charles got 3 and 2 years, respectively. They were non-optioned after year 2 and year 1, respectively. Mahinmi, likely a lot of others who didn’t stick in SA, carved out a career afterwards, 618 games in his case. Livio, not so much after that injury.

Fake Luka has his year 3 option picked up, but then was waived in Year 3 pre-season and did not have his 4th year option picked up.

This seems semantic (Semanic? heh), but it's not really "after year 1 and after year 2" when 3rd and 4th year options have to be picked up... it's more accurately stated as "before year 2 and before year 3" since teams have until Oct 31 to exercise rookie options - so you do get an opportunity in camp, pre-season and a little bit into the regular season before you have to make the decision. You don't have to decide right after season 1 and 2.

[dn0774]

Teams in need of a consolidation trade (ie Rockets, Thunder, maybe Cavs) need to be kicking the tires on Giannis this offseason, not the Spurs. Our overall talent level just isn't there and after reports came out that the Bucks would be looking to "gut" the other team in a potential Giannis trade the overall talent level wouldn't be there post-Giannis trade, that's for sure. I think the Bucks GM Jon Horst is going to try to sell Giannis on sticking around w/ the Bucks in the Eastern Conference now that the Celtics are effectively dismantled for the time being and the Cavs turned out to be paper dragons.

Being gutted (no Harper and possibly Castle and draft capital) and left with a top heavy team of playoff untested (outside of Giannis) guys just sounds awful, nowhere close to a title favorite. One of the main guys gets hurt and we just turn to mush with no capable backups. No influx of young, cheap talent thanks to no picks/swaps. Be a little patient, let's push for a sustained run of 8-10 years of good to elite basketball and hopefully a couple of rings out of it.

I see a fair amount of Spurs fans advocating for pushing the chips all in for Giannis and go straight into desperate ring chase mode as if we are the Clippers who have never won shit. I understand the allure of wanting a deep playoff run immediately. I want #6 as much as anyone, but a sustained run of excellence built on mostly homegrown players is much more satisfying.

[scott]

Teams in need of a consolidation trade (ie Rockets, Thunder, maybe Cavs) need to be kicking the tires on Giannis this offseason, not the Spurs. Our overall talent level just isn't there and after reports came out that the Bucks would be looking to "gut" the other team in a potential Giannis trade the overall talent level wouldn't be there post-Giannis trade, that's for sure. I think the Bucks GM Jon Horst is going to try to sell Giannis on sticking around w/ the Bucks in the Eastern Conference now that the Celtics are effectively dismantled for the time being and the Cavs turned out to be paper dragons.

Being gutted (no Harper and possibly Castle and draft capital) and left with a top heavy team of playoff untested (outside of Giannis) guys just sounds awful, nowhere close to a title favorite. One of the main guys gets hurt and we just turn to mush with no capable backups. No influx of young, cheap talent thanks to no picks/swaps. Be a little patient, let's push for a sustained run of 8-10 years of good to elite basketball and hopefully a couple of rings out of it.

I see a fair amount of Spurs fans advocating for pushing the chips all in for Giannis and go straight into desperate ring chase mode as if we are the Clippers who have never won shit. I understand the allure of wanting a deep playoff run immediately. I want #6 as much as anyone, but a sustained run of excellence built on mostly homegrown players is much more satisfying.

Why do you say the Thunder are in need of a consolidation trade?

I think their model is going to be to secure their big three and then just continually refill and flip their talent pipeline.

[dn0774]

Why do you say the Thunder are in need of a consolidation trade?

I think their model is going to be to secure their big three and then just continually refill and flip their talent pipeline.

That’s moreso if they were to somehow come up short this year, which I expect them to win it all. Moving a Chet or JDub and draft capital and salaries nets an even better team short term in my estimation. They have so much young talent (and Topic waiting in the wings) they could get Giannis without a crazy hit to their depth imo. “Need” might be the wrong word, absorb might be more fitting.

[exstatic]

Fake Luka has his year 3 option picked up, but then was waived in Year 3 pre-season and did not have his 4th year option picked up.

This seems semantic (Semanic? heh), but it's not really "after year 1 and after year 2" when 3rd and 4th year options have to be picked up... it's more accurately stated as "before year 2 and before year 3" since teams have until Oct 31 to exercise rookie options - so you do get an opportunity in camp, pre-season and a little bit into the regular season before you have to make the decision. You don't have to decide right after season 1 and 2.

I forgot about Sammich. Good catch. I like your semantics, too. Agreed that after year 1 or after year 2 is a bit vague.

[mudyez]

What the Spurs actually need is what the Celtics did a couple of years ago: we need the Derrick White's, JRue Holiday's, healthy Kristaps Porzingis' of the world and not players on max contracts. These are all players who are borderline All-Stars and can drop 20 on any team at any given night while being positive defenders. You need to stack your roster with those type of high level role players and they cost a lot less.

Boston got White from us for #28 and a swap. They took on Porzingis and received 2 picks for him. Then they packaged one of those picks with another pick to get Holiday. At the end they got those 3 guys for basically 2 picks and 1 swap and even got a low first rounder from the Grizzlies back. Their warchest was reduced by 1 first, 1 swap, 1 second round pick for 3 championship pieces. The players they offloaded were Gallinari, Muscala, Richardson, Robert Williams and Brogdon.

That's smart GMing.

That's the whole reason why I'm saying get a player like John Collins.

You forgot about Spurs legend Romeo Langford!

[CGD]

You forgot about Spurs legend Romeo Langford!

I use to shit on galaxy brain Ainge for making a huge deal of getting an additional asset in the Tatum/Fultz trade, only to see it become Romeo. But then Boston trade him to us as part of the deal to get White, which helped them win a championship.

[Mr. Body]

I use to shit on galaxy brain Ainge for making a huge deal of getting an additional asset in the Tatum/Fultz trade, only to see it become Romeo. But then Boston trade him to us as part of the deal to get White, which helped them win a championship.

True, but to be fair, that draft was almost complete shit around that point. It ran out of players fast. To be sure, there are some still around - including Keldon, for example - but no one who was obvious. We slag GMs for bad picks, as we often do the Spurs, but never look to see what was available. Sometimes bad picks happen just because there isn't a lot left.

[The Truth #6]

I'm out on the Giannis trade idea for the purely selfish reason that I think it speeds up our process for a 2 to 3 year window when I'd prefer to keep our young blue chip players for a possible decade long window. Having just come out of the Post-Kawhi Dark Ages, I'd like to savor it as much as possible. I'd rather go for 7 50-win seasons than 2 60-win seasons, or something like that.

[jesterbobman]

I think the trade window depends on how you think about Victors health.

If you think he's only got one year, then sacrificing everything for Giannis seems dumb.
If you think he's got 5, and that aligns perfectly with Giannis, a trade makes sense. Title windows are fleeting.
If you think he's got 10-15, then you're cutting half his prime title years by contending now, and it's be hard to retool around him with GIannis retiring. Keeping Harper et al makes sense.

I think the Spurs should probably think about a 10 year window.

[Ice009]

Those options have already been picked up. It’s a weird thing about the rookie FRP contract. First two years are absolutely guaranteed. After year one, you have to decide on the year three option, and after year two, you have to decide on the year four option. Off the top of my head, I can only think of two players who didn’t get the four years from the Spurs: James Anderson, who broke his fifth metatarsal, and Josh Primo, who broke his zipper.

Edit: upon further review, big man washouts Ian Mahinmi and Livio Jean-Charles got 3 and 2 years, respectively. They were non-optioned after year 2 and year 1, respectively. Mahinmi, likely a lot of others who didn’t stick in SA, carved out a career afterwards, 618 games in his case. Livio, not so much after that injury.


Fake Luka has his year 3 option picked up, but then was waived in Year 3 pre-season and did not have his 4th year option picked up.

This seems semantic (Semanic? heh), but it's not really "after year 1 and after year 2" when 3rd and 4th year options have to be picked up... it's more accurately stated as "before year 2 and before year 3" since teams have until Oct 31 to exercise rookie options - so you do get an opportunity in camp, pre-season and a little bit into the regular season before you have to make the decision. You don't have to decide right after season 1 and 2.

I was about to ask Exstatic about this. Sounds a bit better with the way you put it, but I've always thought it's crappy that you have to pick up those options so early. Why do you have to decide on the 3rd year for example before that player has even played their second year? Is that so rookies get more of a chance and don't get cut too early? What's the reasoning for it?

[BatManu20]

1926302985086189752

[scottspurs]

Ulm is playing Alba right now if anyone else is interested in scouting Boa Essengue and Ben Saraf

[scottspurs]

At halftime Ben Saraf 4 of 4 from the field with 8 points. 4 assists, 2 rebounds. Looks like the best player on the court. Finishing at the rim a lot better than he did a couple of weeks ago.

Noa Essengue 5 pts 2 of 3 from the field. Definitely gets pushed around. Only 18 years old so I don’t worry too much about his coordination but I do worry about his frame not being able to put on more weight. I think his ceiling is a pascal Siakam type/level player but floor could be that of the tall skinny OKC player PokuWhatever from a few years back.

[Dejounte]

Let it be known I was high on Saraf since the beginning and had him in my higher tiers, tbh

[scottspurs]

Nearing the end of the 3rd quarter Saraf finding ways to get to the line in the 2nd half. 13 pts now. 9/10 from the free throw line. Essengue not really involved so far in 2nd half

[scottspurs]

International players really do have an advantage with their seasons extending closer to the draft. Scouts get to see them more recently and have a more fresh perspective. Could lead to some of these guys rising as we get later into June

[scottspurs]

Essengue using his length and hustle to get some big boards here in the 4th quarter

[scottspurs]

4 of Essengue’s 6 rebounds have come early on here in the 4th quarter Ulm trails alba 70-73 with 6 minutes to go

[scottspurs]

Ulm takes the lead after Saraf splits the defense and finishes

[scottspurs]

Couple of costly turnovers by Saraf as well though

[scottspurs]

Essengue with a huge offense rebound and put back to put Ulm up 5 with less that 3 minutes left

[scottspurs]

Saraf Dagger 3 probably puts this game away

[BackHome]

Interested to bear your thoughts on these two as possible pick at 14 Scott

[scottspurs]

Saraf finishes with 20 pts, 7 ast, 4 Reb, 1 stl, 1 blk, 4 tov

Essengue 14 pts, 7 Reb, 3 ast, 1 blk

Both players came up huge in the 4th quarter

[LeBowen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JepvaaFGc5M

My favorite draft channel, another good video.

[scottspurs]

Interested to bear your thoughts on these two as possible pick at 14 Scott


I’ve watched the last couple of Ulm games and Saraf right now is the better player between him and Essengue. Saraf is a guy I’m going to move up my board. He is improving what seems like every game. Essengue is a good all around player with no weaknesses but also doesn’t have a strength that gets you excited. He needs to put on some serious strength

I would not be upset with either player at 14. Essengue would fit Brian Wright’s “positionless versatility” mold better and might have higher upside but Saraf has a higher floor and can probably be a role player right away.

In a world where the Spurs don’t draft Dylan Harper. Saraf would be a good pick at 14 but not sure how he fits or gets minutes if Harper is the pick at 2. That said if he is the highest on the spurs board you draft him and figure out the rest later. Saraf is best with the ball in his hands though.

Essengue does a little bit of everything. Not sure how he fits next to Wemby because damn the spurs already get pushed around. I’m trying to remind myself that the spurs can also build through free agency and that they could find their “bruiser” big next year if it doesn’t pan out in this draft. If the top bigs like Sorber are gone Essengue should definitely be in the mix at 14.

[scottspurs]

Honestly Saraf might end up better than Jeremiah Fears. I don’t think Fears is the athlete than everyone makes him out to be and Saraf is a way better shooter. Both players are crafty at getting to the rim. Neither one of them are good on defense but I would say Saraf is more advanced in his fundamentals

[rascal]

Spurs are drafting Harper so they won't be drafting Saraf.

[keithington1]

Avdalas has a deep bag of tricks to his game

[scottspurs]

Avdalas has a deep bag of tricks to his game

If the spurs throw us a curve ball at 14 it might be this guy

[Dejounte]

https://x.com/spel81/status/1926362132108513593?s=46

Filthy filthy

[mo7888]

https://x.com/spel81/status/1926362132108513593?s=46

Filthy filthy

Mini-Manu

[exstatic]

Honestly Saraf might end up better than Jeremiah Fears. I don’t think Fears is the athlete than everyone makes him out to be and Saraf is a way better shooter. Both players are crafty at getting to the rim. Neither one of them are good on defense but I would say Saraf is more advanced in his fundamentals

Don’t hang your hat on Saraf’s shooting .302 to Fears .284 when their respective FT%s are 74% on 3.1 attempts and 85.5% on 6.3 attempts. Fears shooting projects better, according to TaT, and not only does he get to the rim,he gets to the line twice as often and hits a pretty elite percentage. He’s also an 18 year old draftee.

[mystargtr34]

Saraf looks very skilled and silky, almost a poor man’s Manu and a bit of Dylan Harper in his game. He just looks a bit slow to me and won’t have the size advantage to overcome that to be anything more than a complementary player.

[buttsR4rebounding]

The Spurs aren't taking a guard at 14 unless he can play the 3 as well. The last 4 mocks I've looked at have us taking Carter Bryant with the pick.

[Uriel]

I like Carter Bryant a lot, but one thing I’ve never fully understood about the pre-draft process is why NBA teams pick prospects based on physical tools, archetype, and perceived “potential,” as opposed to how good someone actually is at basketball.

Bryant wasn’t even the best player on his own team, now he’s a lottery pick?

[Mr. Body]

I like Carter Bryant a lot, but one thing I’ve never fully understood about the pre-draft process is why NBA teams pick prospects based on physical tools, archetype, and perceived “potential,” as opposed to how good someone actually is at basketball.

Bryant wasn’t even the best player on his own team, now he’s a lottery pick?

Teams often go for physical profiles hoping the head inside can play basketball at a highly demanding and sophisticated level. That's why they keep drafting Mo Bambas. Fortunately Carter Bryant does seem to know how to play to a certain degree, probably pretty good. But he was not asked to do very much while other freshmen across the country were. That's pretty concerning to me.

[Dejounte]

I’m close to finalizing this since there’s not much more tape that’s gonna come until the draft…

Tier 1 “the talent”
Flagg - Tatum


Tier 2 “special talent”
Dylan Harper - Harden
VJ Edgecombe - Wade/ Donovan Mitchell


Tier 2.5 “checks all the boxes”
Jase Richardson - Gilbert Arenas/ CJ McCollum
Kon Knueppel - Derrick White/ Mikal Bridges
Thomas Sorber - DeMarcus Cousins


Tier 3 “big swing that could turn into a big miss or a home run”
Ben Saraf - Manu
Derik Queen - Sengun
Ace Bailey - Andrew Wiggins/ Kyle Kuzma


Tier 3.5 “if you want to play it safe”
Kasparas - Donte DiVicenzo/ D’Angelo Russell
Tre Johnson - Jordan Clarkson
Malauch - Gobert
Will Riley - Brandon Ingram


Tier 4 “great theoretical fit but with a lot to prove”
Egor Demin - Avdija
Noah Penda - Batum
Rasheer Fleming - Achiuwa/ Hachimura
Carter Bryant - Jaden McDaniels/ Ariza
Yaxel Lendeborg - Mamu/ Jalen Johnson


Tier 4.5 “there’s talent there but I’m not a big believer”
CMB
Noa Essengue


Unranked “no strong feelings for these guys”
Joan Beringer
Nolan Traore
Asa Newell
Liam McNeeley


Exciting 2nd Round Picks
Danny Wolf
Maxime Raynaud
Drake Powell
Cedric Coward
Ryan Kalkbrenner

[exstatic]

I like Carter Bryant a lot, but one thing I’ve never fully understood about the pre-draft process is why NBA teams pick prospects based on physical tools, archetype, and perceived “potential,” as opposed to how good someone actually is at basketball.

Bryant wasn’t even the best player on his own team, now he’s a lottery pick?

Older players are frequently better,due to college experience and physical development, but there’s less room for improvement. Most NBA teams are unattractive and won’t attract FAs, and the only way to get an All Star or All NBA player is to draft one. You won’t do that picking older players.

[ambchang]

I like Carter Bryant a lot, but one thing I’ve never fully understood about the pre-draft process is why NBA teams pick prospects based on physical tools, archetype, and perceived “potential,” as opposed to how good someone actually is at basketball.

Bryant wasn’t even the best player on his own team, now he’s a lottery pick?

A lot has to do with early entries. The training at aau is not overly focused on basics and college is now focused on winning as much as possible and not developing young players because they are gone after one year.

Thinking back to the yonder years, if judging by sheer production David Robison was ok in his rookie year at the Navy, but his physical profile was intriguing. Now going on his soph, then junior and senior years and he became a clear top player in the nation, but the first year people only had his profile to evaluate him. It’s true now for every single player. I’m actually quite amazed that the teams are making decent picks given the level of information they get form actual game play, not to mention the absolutely different levels of play from all around the world, whereas in the 80s and early 90s you are mainly picking finished products (or more finished) from primarily and often solely the college ranks.

[scott]

Imagine drafting Drew Timme over Amen Thompson because you prioritized production.

[Uriel]

Imagine drafting Drew Timme over Amen Thompson because you prioritized production.
Sure, but one can easily play that game the other way around.

[LeBowen]

I’m close to finalizing this since there’s not much more tape that’s gonna come until the draft…

Tier 1 “the talent”
Flagg - Tatum


Tier 2 “special talent”
Dylan Harper - Harden
VJ Edgecombe - Wade/ Donovan Mitchell



I'd rather have Harden or Wade than Tatum, tbh.
(I get the point you were trying to make, but it makes it look like those two have a higher ceiling than Flagg.)

[John B]

Older players are frequently better,due to college experience and physical development, but there’s less room for improvement. Most NBA teams are unattractive and won’t attract FAs, and the only way to get an All Star or All NBA player is to draft one. You won’t do that picking older players.

Derrick White just texted.

[RC_Drunkford]

I like Carter Bryant a lot, but one thing I’ve never fully understood about the pre-draft process is why NBA teams pick prospects based on physical tools, archetype, and perceived “potential,” as opposed to how good someone actually is at basketball.

Bryant wasn’t even the best player on his own team, now he’s a lottery pick?

see that's what happens when people don't do their research. In Arizona's rotation were 2 players who were in their 5th (!) year in college, 3 were in their 3rd. That was their starting 5. Meanwhile Carter Bryant was a freshman. The other 2 bench guys were sophomores. Bryant was 7th in minutes played, while being the youngest player and often had to guard the opponents best scorers.

Arizona's coach prefers to play vets and a lot of people were asking for Bryant to play more minutes. That should tell you a lot when he's by far the youngest guy in the rotation.

And physical tools will always matter. There's a reason why NBA centers are usually 7 footers instead of people who are 6 feet tall, but have better handles and a jumpshot.

[exstatic]

Derrick White just texted.

Using the exception to make a rule. Chris Duarte called.

With his first 3 year's production, if White had been drafted in the lottery, he would have been considered a bust. As it is,he’s a connector/high level defender, not the All Star or All NBA player that I was referring to at the end of the post, had you read that far.

[spurraider21]

Sorber - Cousins comparison is one of the most unhinged takes of this draft cycle

[jesterbobman]

I think the interesting debate at 14 is if you still go another big guard (Saraf, Demin) if you've already taken Harper at 2, and those guys are the best on your board.

If you think OKC is the threat for the next decade (I think, a very reasonable take), then a multi ball handler offense that can escape pressure might be the move - Having a bunch of 6'6" creators would allow you to attack the weak help link is interesting (though, obviously you need shooting as well).

I think Essengue and Carter are in the same tier and have the better path to minutes than those two..but if those guys are BPA on the Spurs board, I think a double up can make sense.

[Dejounte]

Sorber - Cousins comparison is one of the most unhinged takes of this draft cycle

Instead of asking why, or even providing your own take on it, you choose to insult and criticize. There’s another path where you disagree and move on as well. This says more about you than the take itself. It’s the kind of low effort response that I should expect by now, tbh.

[Dejounte]

I think the interesting debate at 14 is if you still go another big guard (Saraf, Demin) if you've already taken Harper at 2, and those guys are the best on your board.

If you think OKC is the threat for the next decade (I think, a very reasonable take), then a multi ball handler offense that can escape pressure might be the move - Having a bunch of 6'6" creators would allow you to attack the weak help link is interesting (though, obviously you need shooting as well).

I think Essengue and Carter are in the same tier and have the better path to minutes than those two..but if those guys are BPA on the Spurs board, I think a double up can make sense.

I do think at some point you HAVE to start thinking about fit and as much as I like Saraf, I don’t think they go for him. It’s not even about Saraf probably being around the same size as our big guard trio— I think he will need the ball to be truly effective. He won’t get many of those chances here. On the other hand, Jase (and Kon) still works for me because he won’t need the ball as much and he’s an incredibly dependable catch and shoot shooter.

I think the max number of high usage guard creators a team should have is three.

[scottspurs]

Georgetowns defensive rating was 90.7 with Thomas Sorber on the court. 5th in NCAA

Georgetowns defensive rating was 111.9 with Sorber off the court. 272nd in NCAA

Georgetowns opp rim fg% with Sorber on the court 48.3%. 2nd in NCAA

Georgetowns opp rim fg% without Sorber on the court 62.4%. 330th in NCAA.

[rascal]

Georgetowns defensive rating was 90.7 with Thomas Sorber on the court. 5th in NCAA

Georgetowns defensive rating was 111.9 with Sorber off the court. 272nd in NCAA

Georgetowns opp rim fg% with Sorber on the court 48.3%. 2nd in NCAA

Georgetowns opp rim fg% without Sorber on the court 62.4%. 330th in NCAA.

I like Sorber but I expect him to get drafted a pick or two before the Spurs pick of 14.

[Guru of Nothing]

If aiming high, I like the comparison of Sorber to Al Jefferson.

[BackHome]

I don’t know if he is unable to participate in any pre draft drills with teams because of foot injury he may fall a little bit.

[dbestpro]

An interesting name popped up when comparing Dylan Harper to players of 1980s in AI.

Alvin Robertson
Height/Weight: 6'4", 205 lbs

Why: Known for defense, strength, and versatility, Robertson's frame and rebounding guard game mirror Harper’s physical tools. Harper is a better passer and post-up option; Robertson was elite at steals.

[spurraider21]

Instead of asking why, or even providing your own take on it, you choose to insult and criticize. There’s another path where you disagree and move on as well. This says more about you than the take itself. It’s the kind of low effort response that I should expect by now, tbh.
:cry

dude, i don’t think there is a worse possible comp than cousins for Sorber unless you are strictly talking combine measurements. They do nothing similarly at all. Boogie was a dominant one on one iso scorer. Face up, post, shooting. Also a top tier passer/playmaker for the position. Great ballhandler.

His weaknesses were motor and defensive effort. Character, attitude. Shares none of this with Sorber from what i can tel

With his size and talent he had legitimate “best player in the nba” potential but got in his own way, like the russell westbrook of centers.

sorber is not an offensive centerpiece, is nothing to write home about as an iso scorer, handler, playmaker, passer. He has a solid midrange shot but the comp ends there offensively

defensively Sorber is a true anchor, good motor and defensive effort/iq

theyre polar oppposites on both sides of the floor. Sorber is on the tiago splitter plane of center. If you wanted to make a boogie comp in this draft you could say Queen is a poor man’s cousins

It’s like saying your McNeeley comp is Iguodala

[scottspurs]

Since 2000, prospects with 7’2’+ wingspans and 75%+ free throw percentage:

Kawhi Leonard
Jalen Williams
De’Andre Hunter
Cedric Coward

[Dejounte]

:cry

dude, i don’t think there is a worse possible comp than cousins for Sorber unless you are strictly talking combine measurements. They do nothing similarly at all. Boogie was a dominant one on one iso scorer. Face up, post, shooting. Also a top tier passer/playmaker for the position. Great ballhandler.

His weaknesses were motor and defensive effort. Character, attitude. Shares none of this with Sorber from what i can tel

With his size and talent he had legitimate “best player in the nba” potential but got in his own way, like the russell westbrook of centers.

sorber is not an offensive centerpiece, is nothing to write home about as an iso scorer, handler, playmaker, passer. He has a solid midrange shot but the comp ends there offensively

defensively Sorber is a true anchor, good motor and defensive effort/iq

theyre polar oppposites on both sides of the floor. Sorber is on the tiago splitter plane of center. If you wanted to make a boogie comp in this draft you could say Queen is a poor man’s cousins

It’s like saying your McNeeley comp is Iguodala

“dude, i don’t think there is a worse possible comp than cousins for Sorber unless you are strictly talking combine measurements. They do nothing similarly at all. Boogie was a dominant one on one iso scorer. Face up, post, shooting. Also a top tier passer/playmaker for the position. Great ballhandler.”

SpursBills (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=18470) said it some pages back. The reality of Sorber is he is not an explosive big, not a super versatile offensive big where he’s consistently handing the ball from the perimeter, doesn’t use pop or size to be a vertical spacer… guess what? All of these things spell out who Cousins was offensively. Cousins did his damage on offense in spite of not having these tools— he was ground bound as Sorber is. Cousins array of moves was diverse, but not enough to where you could say it was technically sound. He tried anything and everything, especially things that was abnormal for him to do. This led to him being inefficient in many areas, and why he never made a leap to become a winning big. So, there are a lot of parts of Cousins’ game, when looked at from the perspective of how Sorber will fare offensively given his limitations, that a comparison can be made. His free throw percentages even mirror Sorber’s. I don’t envision Sorber’s future ever being one where he was spoonfed on offense as Cousins was, so I never believed he would become a 20+ scorer when I made the comparison.

Like, when I compare Kon to Mikal and White— do I think he’ll get to their level, usefulness, and status? No. But the essence of both Mikal and White is that these two guys make winning plays and are almost always at the right place at the right time.

“His weaknesses were motor and defensive effort. Character, attitude. Shares none of this with Sorber from what i can tel”

I made the comparison of Arenas to Jase… do I think Jase has the same psycho tendencies as Arenas? No. I don’t think anyone in this thread ever carry over character flaws when they’re making comps. Why would they? Everyone is their own person.

Cousins was a guy who was playing like he had something to prove all the time. This led to him doing things outside himself, doing things that would occasionally make people say ooh and aaahh. I think Sorber will be a much more muted version of that, a dude with the same ground bound offense who stays completely within himself and doesn’t have the dream to become the best big in the NBA. Sorber’s bag on offense is not so simple that he’s to be compared to offensively-starved guys like Biyombo or Capela. That would be doing Sorber a disservice. He is a tier above that, he has an offensive bag perhaps not to the skill level of a guy like Zach Randolph or Al Jefferson (both guys I looked at before saying Cousins), but something decent.

[ginobilized]

Sorber, if his potential is realized, is the defensive anchor, screen setting, rebounding force of a backup center the Spurs need. Tiago Splitter/Jakob Poeltl type that the Spurs typically love. My hope is that he's available at 14 or we do a trade to grab him if possible. My ideal here would include Tiago joining the coaching staff and us getting a backup center to mentor him, like Kornet or Adams. Having a strong rim protector on the floor most of the 48 while wielding a 3 guard lineup with defensive upside would be a whole new paradigm for this tanking squad. I'd love to see that. If we could somehow add Raynaud to the mix with Sorber, we'd have an incredible foundation for the future.

[mo7888]

This should be my last Board until we pass the deadline to withdraw from the draft. Yaxel Lendeborg is a potential withdraw guy.

Tier 1:
1. Cooper Flagg
Tier 2:
2. Dylan Harper
Tier 3:
3. V.J Edgecombe
4. Ace Bailey
Tier 4:
5. Tre Johnson
6. Jon Knueppel
7. Kasparas Jackucionis
8. Liam McNeely
9. Thomas Sorber
10. Egor Demin
11. Carter Bryant
Tier 5:
12. Jeremiah Fears
13. Noa Essengue
14. Khaman Maluach
15. Rasheer Fleming
16. Derick Queen

17. Jase Richardson
18. Cedric Coward
Tier 6:
19. Will Riley
20. Nolan Traore
21. Ben Saraf
22. Yaxel Lendeborg
23. Maxime Raynaud
Tier 7:
24. Asa Newell
25. Ryan Kalkbrenner
26. Danny Wolf
27. Drake Powell
28. Walter Clayton jr
29. Alex Condon
30. Noah Penda

Remember, on my board look at the tiers as opposed to individual rank. For instance, if we pick Harper at #2 you wouldn't take Fears at 14 over say Fleming even though he's higher.

[SpursBills]

“dude, i don’t think there is a worse possible comp than cousins for Sorber unless you are strictly talking combine measurements. They do nothing similarly at all. Boogie was a dominant one on one iso scorer. Face up, post, shooting. Also a top tier passer/playmaker for the position. Great ballhandler.”

SpursBills (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=18470) said it some pages back. The reality of Sorber is he is not an explosive big, not a super versatile offensive big where he’s consistently handing the ball from the perimeter, doesn’t use pop or size to be a vertical spacer… guess what? All of these things spell out who Cousins was offensively. Cousins did his damage on offense in spite of not having these tools— he was ground bound as Sorber is. Cousins array of moves was diverse, but not enough to where you could say it was technically sound. He tried anything and everything, especially things that was abnormal for him to do. This led to him being inefficient in many areas, and why he never made a leap to become a winning big. So, there are a lot of parts of Cousins’ game, when looked at from the perspective of how Sorber will fare offensively given his limitations, that a comparison can be made. His free throw percentages even mirror Sorber’s. I don’t envision Sorber’s future ever being one where he was spoonfed on offense as Cousins was, so I never believed he would become a 20+ scorer when I made the comparison.

Like, when I compare Kon to Mikal and White— do I think he’ll get to their level, usefulness, and status? No. But the essence of both Mikal and White is that these two guys make winning plays and are almost always at the right place at the right time.

“His weaknesses were motor and defensive effort. Character, attitude. Shares none of this with Sorber from what i can tel”

I made the comparison of Arenas to Jase… do I think Jase has the same psycho tendencies as Arenas? No. I don’t think anyone in this thread ever carry over character flaws when they’re making comps. Why would they? Everyone is their own person.

Cousins was a guy who was playing like he had something to prove all the time. This led to him doing things outside himself, doing things that would occasionally make people say ooh and aaahh. I think Sorber will be a much more muted version of that, a dude with the same ground bound offense who stays completely within himself and doesn’t have the dream to become the best big in the NBA. Sorber’s bag on offense is not so simple that he’s to be compared to offensively-starved guys like Biyombo or Capela. That would be doing Sorber a disservice. He is a tier above that, he has an offensive bag perhaps not to the skill level of a guy like Zach Randolph or Al Jefferson (both guys I looked at before saying Cousins), but something decent.

I dunno man, I think you are discounting Boogie's physicality and mentality by quite a bit here - yeah, he and Sorber have similar measurements and you may see some similarities in their skillsets, but when you're comparing functional athleticism/physicality markers, Sorber's at 21 dunks/9.5 OREB%/42% FTR compared to Boogie's 53 dunks/19.9 OREB%/73% FTR - I don't think most of that can necessarily be chalked up to just role/opportunity. Meanwhile, I think you're also underselling Sorber's IQ/defense which is levels above Boogie.

I'm not going to lie, I don't see a whole lot in common between the two - it's sort of like comparing Essengue to Tayshaun Prince - like yeah, their body types are similar, they're both pretty skinny with very rudimentary skills at this juncture so you can make that comparison, but my impression is that Essengue has a much more aggressive/attacking mentality offensively. Can you chalk that up to opportunity? I'm not sure - Prince had a .261 FTR all averaged across all 4 years of college, while Essengue is at .76 at age 18 in a pro league. That makes the two fundamentally different types of players to me.

[RC_Drunkford]

Sorber, if his potential is realized, is the defensive anchor, screen setting, rebounding force of a backup center the Spurs need. Tiago Splitter/Jakob Poeltl type that the Spurs typically love. My hope is that he's available at 14 or we do a trade to grab him if possible. My ideal here would include Tiago joining the coaching staff and us getting a backup center to mentor him, like Kornet or Adams. Having a strong rim protector on the floor most of the 48 while wielding a 3 guard lineup with defensive upside would be a whole new paradigm for this tanking squad. I'd love to see that. If we could somehow add Raynaud to the mix with Sorber, we'd have an incredible foundation for the future.

Sorber is far more skilled than Splitter/Poeltl though. I'd compare him to Roy Hibbert/Al Horford. He's a pretty safe bet to be a starting C with offensive upside to be an elite one.

As far as body type, his best comparison is Myles Turner.

[Gibbz]

Cousins was #2 in his HS class behind only John Wall. Sorber was more like a top-50 kid. He could be great but the perception of talent is not even close to Cousins at the same point.

[scott]

Idk who Sorber compares to... but I really like him as an option at #14.

[Dejounte]

I dunno man, I think you are discounting Boogie's physicality and mentality by quite a bit here - yeah, he and Sorber have similar measurements and you may see some similarities in their skillsets, but when you're comparing functional athleticism/physicality markers, Sorber's at 21 dunks/9.5 OREB%/42% FTR compared to Boogie's 53 dunks/19.9 OREB%/73% FTR - I don't think most of that can necessarily be chalked up to just role/opportunity. Meanwhile, I think you're also underselling Sorber's IQ/defense which is levels above Boogie.

I'm not going to lie, I don't see a whole lot in common between the two - it's sort of like comparing Essengue to Tayshaun Prince - like yeah, their body types are similar, they're both pretty skinny with very rudimentary skills at this juncture so you can make that comparison, but my impression is that Essengue has a much more aggressive/attacking mentality offensively. Can you chalk that up to opportunity? I'm not sure - Prince had a .261 FTR all averaged across all 4 years of college, while Essengue is at .76 at age 18 in a pro league. That makes the two fundamentally different types of players to me.

I’m not deluded to the key differences for the comps I’ve made for players. Just like in previous posts I’ve made about Harper being far, far away from Harden, I used him anyway. I can write essays on each player on why I chose a specific comp just like the one I did for Sorber. It’s a more nuanced take than it looks, and I did not write that with the intention that the comps are 1:1. The post by Gibbs after yours still thinks I’m comparing them by talent level. If I was to sum it up what I’m doing in the most simplistic form: I’m trying to compare NBA players by looking at their style of play in relation to their physical build and athletic profile— how their body influences the way they move and perform on the court. For example, Tim Duncan started as a power forward, but over time, his body type and natural movement patterns gradually shaped him into more of a center, which is arguably the position he was always destined to play.

Sure, the stats might show that DeMarcus Cousins dunked more than Thomas Sorber, but I don’t think that fully captures who Cousins was as a player. His game wasn’t solely about using physical force to overpower opponents; it was more nuanced and built on a broader skill set.

[scottspurs]

Player comps are really tough which is why a lot of them appear to be way off. For the most part I think it’s better to just evaluate how good the player is and how he fits and not try to make an apple an orange.

[Dejounte]

Player comps are really tough which is why a lot of them appear to be way off. For the most part I think it’s better to just evaluate how good the player is and how he fits and not try to make an apple an orange.

I get that comps can feel off sometimes, but throughout history, everything we do as humans is rooted in imitation. We take pieces of what came before us and reshape them into something new. Those influences eventually show, whether it’s obvious right away or becomes clear over time. When it comes to comps, people are visual by nature. The easiest way to help someone understand what a player might become is to point to something they’ve already seen. It’s not about making an apple an orange, it’s about showing the traits that connect them.