2025 NBA Draft

[rascal]

Why do you have Tre top 5 when you have Kon so low? Kon's got no vertical pop but Tre's is nothing to write home about - 7 dunks on the year, can't rebound for shit, can't generate turnovers to save his life suggests low functional athleticism, and he can't play 3. I don't have an issue with your logic of going big and leaning into athleticism and defense, but it seems to be inconsistent to have such a gap between Tre and Kon.

Also have you seen Adou Thiero? Wanted to get your thoughts on him as someone who values high level athleticism with size.

Tre will not be there at 8 for the Spurs.
Tre is a better offensive prospect than Kon to me.
He can be a come off the bench to be an offensive spark plug type of player. But the Spurs won't be drafting at 5 and he isn't an option in the top 4 for me also not likely to be there at 8 so isn't really an option.

I don't know anything about Adou.

Edit: After seeing some tape on Adou he doesn't have good shot mechanics so he'll need work there but he has NBA athleticism/quickness and finishing above the rim ability.

[rascal]

I disagree we are deep at guard. We have lots of guards... but only two of them are good.

Spurs are deep at guard as compared to SF and PF.

[scott]

Spurs are deep at guard as compared to SF and PF.

We're pretty thing everywhere, tbh

[benefactor]

Why do you have Tre top 5 when you have Kon so low? Kon's got no vertical pop but Tre's is nothing to write home about - 7 dunks on the year, can't rebound for shit, can't generate turnovers to save his life suggests low functional athleticism, and he can't play 3. I don't have an issue with your logic of going big and leaning into athleticism and defense, but it seems to be inconsistent to have such a gap between Tre and Kon.

Also have you seen Adou Thiero? Wanted to get your thoughts on him as someone who values high level athleticism with size.
Tre is black.

He thinks Kon and Reed Sheppard are the same player except Kon is taller.

[benefactor]

Tre will not be there at 8 for the Spurs.
Tre is a better offensive prospect than Kon to me.

Of course he is...because he's darker

[Mr. Body]

No...I'm just more intellectually curious than you... It's ok though...don't ever change..

Bruh, I'm not the one who found some Fitzgerald quote who hasn't even read the dude. I have, and not just the Great Gatsby, but that's neither here nor there. What you're talking about is also called Negative Capability, a literary term about being able to consider different views and ideas, and can contribute to great writing.

What you are evincing is NOT negative capability, but just straight up basketball terrorism. Going on for a thread about trading fucking Stephon Castle just after he gets a ROY is not some intellectual brilliance or worth even a smidge of consideration. It's just completely stupid.

But if you want recs on Fitzgerald, let me know. "The Diamond as Big as the Ritz" is pretty wild. "Babylon Revisited" is also great.

[Dejounte]

Gonna mimic scottspurs (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17106) style of ranking players but with a twist:

Flagg - Potential High End Star - Tatum-level impact
Harper - Potential Mid Star - Jalen Williams-level impact
Edgecombe - Potential Low End to Mid Star - Lesser Wade-level impact
Thomas Sorber - Potential Low End Star - Lesser Kevin Garnett-level impact
Jase Richardson - Potential Low End Star - Maxey-level impact
Derik Queen - Potential Low End Star - Sengun-level impact
Ben Saraf - Potential High End Role Player - Lesser Manu-level impact
Kon Knueppel - Potential High End Role Player - Derrick White-level impact
Egor Demin - Potential Mid to High End Role Player - Lesser Andre Iguodala-level impact
CMB - Potential Mid to High End Role Player - Udonis Haslem-level impact
Tre Johnson - Mid to High End Role Player - Jordan Clarkson level impact
Kasparas - Mid to High End Role Player - Bones Hyland to Fred Van Vleet-level impact
Malauch - Potential Mid Role Player - Tiago Splitter-level impact
Danny Wolf - Potential Low to Mid Role Player - Center version Kyle Anderson-level impact
Rasheer Fleming - Potential Low to Mid Role Player - Tari Eason or Precious Achiuwa-level impact
Ace Bailey - Low to High End Role Player - Kelly Oubre Jr to Michael Beasley-level impact
Carter Bryant - Potential Low to High End Role Player - Isaiah Roby or Lesser Trey Murphy III-level impact
Fears - Potential Low End Role Player - Donte DiVincenzo-level impact
Newell - Potential Low End Role Player - Anderson Varejao-level impact
McNeeley - Potential Low End Role Player - Lesser Doug McDermott-level impact

[rascal]

Of course he is...because he's darker

He's quicker

[mo7888]

Bruh, I'm not the one who found some Fitzgerald quote who hasn't even read the dude. I have, and not just the Great Gatsby, but that's neither here nor there. What you're talking about is also called Negative Capability, a literary term about being able to consider different views and ideas, and can contribute to great writing.

What you are evincing is NOT negative capability, but just straight up basketball terrorism. Going on for a thread about trading fucking Stephon Castle just after he gets a ROY is not some intellectual brilliance or worth even a smidge of consideration. It's just completely stupid.

But if you want recs on Fitzgerald, let me know. "The Diamond as Big as the Ritz" is pretty wild. "Babylon Revisited" is also great.

That was alot of words to deflect and say nothing really. You still don't even understand that nobody really is looking to get rid of Castle. Some of us talk about moving him if some large trade comes down the pipe and others talk about how the fit with Fox is problematic and how we think a decision will have to be made there at some point. You twist that to say 'we're discussing trading Castle' in some generalized way. I know you've got a rep for throwing your BS against the wall like it's some authoritative word, but you either don't comprehend what people are discussing or you're using this strawman crap to make some point to yourself to get off or something. I have no idea which, but it's obvious that your dumbassedry is showing tonight... put down the old man pipe and discuss something or get off my nuts...

[benefactor]

He's quicker
We know. Fast black man

[benefactor]

He's quicker
We know. Fast black man

[Dejounte]

Somehow I forgot these three guys:

Tre Johnson - Mid to High End Role Player - Jordan Clarkson level impact
Ace Bailey - Low to High End Role Player - Kelly Oubre Jr to Michael Beasley-level impact
Kasparas - Mid to High End Role Player - Bones Hyland to Fred Van Vleet-level impact

I will insert them into my original list

[mo7888]

Somehow I forgot these three guys:

Tre Johnson - Mid to High End Role Player - Jordan Clarkson level impact
Ace Bailey - Low to High End Role Player - Kelly Oubre Jr to Michael Beasley-level impact
Kasparas - Mid to High End Role Player - Bones Hyland to Fred Van Vleet-level impact

I will insert them into my original list

Of all the comps you've listed, some of which i agree with some disagree, the Tre Johnson one is the best. I hadn't thought of Clarkson, but he's the perfect comp for Tre.

[rankingtear]

Hope the Malauch, Nipple get drafted before us so a star prospect drops to 8 or 14 opening up high value trade down or out scenarios like the Dillingham trade. Fears, Tre, Jaku, Demin, Queen have little value to us compared to other teams.

[mo7888]

Hope the Malauch, Nipple get drafted before us so a star prospect drops to 8 or 14 opening up high value trade down or out scenarios like the Dillingham trade. Fears, Tre, Jaku, Demin, Queen have little value to us compared to other teams.

So what star prospects are you hoping drop to us?

[rankingtear]

So what star prospects are you hoping drop to us?

I named them.

[mo7888]

I named them.

Maybe I'm missing it then. You seemed to refer to Malauch and Kon as being someone wrd want since you 'hope' they get drafted before we pick. Then you said Fears, Tre, Jaku, Demin, and Queen have little value to us. So I dont see where you mention who you think is a 'star' prosect that may fall to use since you just excluded everyone on that list.

[rascal]

McNeeley has to tone it down some. He over plays at 110% and out of control at times, just throwing up wild poor shots.
He has a nice shooting form and the athleticism and ability to attack the basket off the dribble.

He has more potential, lenght/height and athleticism than Kon and is a better fit at SF for the Spurs but he needs to harness some of the wild out of control play.
He's great value now and I'm sure he's a top option for the Atlanta pick for the Spurs.

[mo7888]

McNeeley has to tone it down some. He over plays at 110% and out of control at times, just throwing up wild poor shots.
He has a nice shooting form and the athleticism and ability to attack the basket off the dribble.

He has more potential, lenght/height and athleticism than Kon and is a better fit at SF for the Spurs but he needs to harness some of the wild out of control play.
He's great value now and I'm sure he's a top option for the Atlanta pick for the Spurs.

I wouldn't hate McNeely at 8, but I'd love him at 14.. He is the best fit for how we are currently constructed. That could change depending on other moves we might make.

[Vienna]

I don't care about the fit with Fox. if you draft a player at #8, you expect a starter, right? but you don't expect that player to become a starter right away. you draft for potential and it might take even 3 years.
that said, any guard they might draft at #8, they will see as a potential part of a 2027 or 2028 back court. and assuming they see Castle as part of that, they will evaluate the draft with this in mind.

so, if they see Richardson next to Castle in the future, so be it. whoever they think will fit. (likely a good shooter, considering this is an open question with Castle).
so, do they still give Fox the max? sure. because he still might outplay any player from this draft for the next 4 years.

[rankingtear]

Maybe I'm missing it then. You seemed to refer to Malauch and Kon as being someone wrd want since you 'hope' they get drafted before we pick. Then you said Fears, Tre, Jaku, Demin, and Queen have little value to us. So I dont see where you mention who you think is a 'star' prosect that may fall to use since you just excluded everyone on that list.

Fears, Tre.. etc.

[Mr. Body]

I don't care about the fit with Fox. if you draft a player at #8, you expect a starter, right? but you don't expect that player to become a starter right away. you draft for potential and it might take even 3 years.
that said, any guard they might draft at #8, they will see as a potential part of a 2027 or 2028 back court. and assuming they see Castle as part of that, they will evaluate the draft with this in mind.

so, if they see Richardson next to Castle in the future, so be it. whoever they think will fit. (likely a good shooter, considering this is an open question with Castle).
so, do they still give Fox the max? sure. because he still might outplay any player from this draft for the next 4 years.

Yeah, Fox shouldn't be a huge factor in anything. Again and again, he's gonna be 28 next season. He has maybe three seasons of being all that good. Hopefully more, but that's probably about it.

You don't draft worried about Fox's impact. The only player I would shy away from is Fears, because he and Fox are essentially the same player in skill-set, small, low-defense guards who can attack, are score-first with limited range.

The best players post-Flagg are mostly guards, and some of them can play wing. You take one of them without worrying about Fox. Wembanyama is 21 years old, for Chrissakes.

[rankingtear]

Yeah, Fox shouldn't be a huge factor in anything. Again and again, he's gonna be 28 next season. He has maybe three seasons of being all that good. Hopefully more, but that's probably about it.

You don't draft worried about Fox's impact. The only player I would shy away from is Fears, because he and Fox are essentially the same player in skill-set, small, low-defense guards who can attack, are score-first with limited range.

The best players post-Flagg are mostly guards, and some of them can play wing. You take one of them without worrying about Fox. Wembanyama is 21 years old, for Chrissakes.

Do you draft for worst case scenario?

[Mr. Body]

Do you draft for worst case scenario?

What does that mean?

[rankingtear]

What does that mean?

Fox falling off after 3 years. Shouldn't they draft with the assumption that Fox ages gracefully and Castle picks up the slack as he hits his prime.

[exstatic]

Fox falling off after 3 years. Shouldn't they draft with the assumption that Fox ages gracefully and Castle picks up the slack as he hits his prime.

If you’re looking to replace Fox down the road, Fears is your best bet. Fox is 27, and Feats will be 18 on draft night,so there’s a good apprenticeship period. He’s a super quick rim attacker with shooting potential.

[bluebellmaniac]

Yeah, Fox shouldn't be a huge factor in anything. Again and again, he's gonna be 28 next season. He has maybe three seasons of being all that good. Hopefully more, but that's probably about it.

You don't draft worried about Fox's impact. The only player I would shy away from is Fears, because he and Fox are essentially the same player in skill-set, small, low-defense guards who can attack, are score-first with limited range.

The best players post-Flagg are mostly guards, and some of them can play wing. You take one of them without worrying about Fox. Wembanyama is 21 years old, for Chrissakes.

You traded assets for Fox. So he should be a factor in things.

He can give us wins next year, but also be a mentor if we select a PG. We might not select one this year, if other opportunities are.there. We have lots of areas for improvement, so BPA.

I'm going to assume he's willing to show any new pups how things are done and be that team player.

Otherwise why did we give anything up for him?

[Mr. Body]

Fox falling off after 3 years. Shouldn't they draft with the assumption that Fox ages gracefully and Castle picks up the slack as he hits his prime.

Fox aging gracefully is him being good for another three years. I hope he's good beyond that, but we really need somebody better than him in the long run. Small guards don't really last that long in the league, with exceptions, and he's already injury prone.

As for Fears, I'm not against him, but it's not like we should be going out and looking for small, limited defense, okay distributing, just okay from range guards. Getting Fox was great because we badly needed talent and he didn't cost much. Again, we will be hurting because of his contract before long, though that's okay. But we didn't go out to get him because of his bad traits, which Fears shares, but because of his good ones, plus availability.

[LeBowen]

Just ignore Mr. Body's Fox takes, it's one of his usual gimmicks where he keeps digging himself deeper for no fucking reason other than to trigger people.

[Mr. Body]

Just ignore Mr. Body's Fox takes, it's one of his usual gimmicks where he keeps digging himself deeper for no fucking reason other than to trigger people.

There's not one thing I've said that is wrong. You just think of yourself as a 'crew' here, for some reason, and aren't aware that you're stuck in with a circular, badly reasoned group of simpleminded fools.

Here's what I said:

The guards are the best players in our picking range. True.

Existing players shouldn't impact that pick. True.

We shouldn't trade Castle because wtf is that? Some of the stupidest shit ever. True.

(Not stated: if we like a big, I'm fine with that, we also need those.)

Fox is not the longterm solution because, y'know, he's 28 and Wemby is 21. True.

Fox may not be very effective for longer than 3 years. Admittedly, my pessimism here. He could be a Parker/Paul, but... he's not as good as them, either.

Fox is going to be expensive and this affects moves we can make in the future. True.

So... lmao, what exactly isn't true about any of this? You idjits are just upset that your newest flight of fancy is dumb as shit -- trading Castle -- because it's so fucking laughable. The rest is fine.

[Mr. Body]

Oh, and, I don't think they'd pick Fears, really, because he presents the same problems as Fox. You have to cover for him defensively. His offense is not broadly defined (not a deep threat, not a great facilitator). Most of all, he can only play one position when trying to get multi-position players is important. True.

[Mr. Body]

So... yeah. Get you and your dumb crew of 'boyz' together and have a dumb little circle jerk. They ain't trading Castle. Go cry about it.

[scott]

You traded assets for Fox. So he should be a factor in things.

He can give us wins next year, but also be a mentor if we select a PG. We might not select one this year, if other opportunities are.there. We have lots of areas for improvement, so BPA.

I'm going to assume he's willing to show any new pups how things are done and be that team player.

Otherwise why did we give anything up for him?

I'll take this from another perspective... our team isn't good enough/doesn't have enough talent to worry about fit at ANY position, including center. I love Wemby, Fox and Castle as much as anyone... the presence of any of them shouldn't stop us from drafting any player in this class, because there is room on the roster for any of them. Guard is the best player? Take 'em. We'll need a third guard anyway and if they slot into Fox's successor for whenever that will be... great. Center is the best player available? Great. We need a backup and Wemby can play alongside for a certain number of minutes each game. Forward is an obvious need so no second thoughts there.

Wemby, Castle or Fox shouldn't stop us from drafting anyone, because we aren't drafting their replacement... we're drafting replacements for the rest of the roster.

[baseline bum]

I'll take this from another perspective... our team isn't good enough/doesn't have enough talent to worry about fit at ANY position, including center. I love Wemby, Fox and Castle as much as anyone... the presence of any of them shouldn't stop us from drafting any player in this class, because there is room on the roster for any of them. Guard is the best player? Take 'em. We'll need a third guard anyway and if they slot into Fox's successor for whenever that will be... great. Center is the best player available? Great. We need a backup and Wemby can play alongside for a certain number of minutes each game. Forward is an obvious need so no second thoughts there.

Wemby, Castle or Fox shouldn't stop us from drafting anyone, because we aren't drafting their replacement... we're drafting replacements for the rest of the roster.

I guess I'd ask is there any overwhelming talent who would be a clear BPA after the top 4? Someone good enough to ignore fit? I don't think Maluach, Kon, Tre Johnson, or anyone else after Flagg, Harper, Edgecombe, and Bailey are the level of talent where you say this guy is too good to pass up even if he isn't really what we need. Edgecombe or Harper I get and Bailey is a great fit on paper at least, but you're probably drafting two role players. Or is there anyone you like that you see as a potential allstar who would be available #8 or later?

[spurraider21]

I guess I'd ask is there any overwhelming talent who would be a clear BPA after the top 4? Someone good enough to ignore fit? I don't think Maluach, Kon, Tre Johnson, or anyone else after Flagg, Harper, Edgecombe, and Bailey are the level of talent where you say this guy is too good to pass up even if he isn't really what we need. Edgecombe or Harper I get and Bailey is a great fit on paper at least, but you're probably drafting two role players. Or is there anyone you like that you see as a potential allstar who would be available #8 or later?
i think the most talented player after 4 is probably Queen but he comes with big fit concerns. even for a team with gaping hole at center... his defensive question marks are worth considering

[bluebellmaniac]

I'll take this from another perspective... our team isn't good enough/doesn't have enough talent to worry about fit at ANY position, including center. I love Wemby, Fox and Castle as much as anyone... the presence of any of them shouldn't stop us from drafting any player in this class, because there is room on the roster for any of them. Guard is the best player? Take 'em. We'll need a third guard anyway and if they slot into Fox's successor for whenever that will be... great. Center is the best player available? Great. We need a backup and Wemby can play alongside for a certain number of minutes each game. Forward is an obvious need so no second thoughts there.

Wemby, Castle or Fox shouldn't stop us from drafting anyone, because we aren't drafting their replacement... we're drafting replacements for the rest of the roster.

Completely agree with this!

[baseline bum]

i think the most talented player after 4 is probably Queen but he comes with big fit concerns. even for a team with gaping hole at center... his defensive question marks are worth considering

Guess if we wanted a straight interior scorer with no outside shot and major defensive red flags Edey would have been a way better choice.

[rankingtear]

Scott took it up a notch and included Wemby.

[baseline bum]

McNeeley has to tone it down some. He over plays at 110% and out of control at times, just throwing up wild poor shots.
He has a nice shooting form and the athleticism and ability to attack the basket off the dribble.

He has more potential, lenght/height and athleticism than Kon and is a better fit at SF for the Spurs but he needs to harness some of the wild out of control play.
He's great value now and I'm sure he's a top option for the Atlanta pick for the Spurs.

Would you take McNeeley over Fleming though? I'd really hope to get one of them out of the ATL pick.

[spurraider21]

Guess if we wanted a straight interior scorer with no outside shot and major defensive red flags Edey would have been a way better choice.
Queen is much more of a hub. can give him the ball in the midrange and let him go to work and create.

[LeBowen]

There's not one thing I've said that is wrong. You just think of yourself as a 'crew' here, for some reason, and aren't aware that you're stuck in with a circular, badly reasoned group of simpleminded fools.

Here's what I said:

The guards are the best players in our picking range. True.

Existing players shouldn't impact that pick. True.

We shouldn't trade Castle because wtf is that? Some of the stupidest shit ever. True.

(Not stated: if we like a big, I'm fine with that, we also need those.)

Fox is not the longterm solution because, y'know, he's 28 and Wemby is 21. True.

Fox may not be very effective for longer than 3 years. Admittedly, my pessimism here. He could be a Parker/Paul, but... he's not as good as them, either.

Fox is going to be expensive and this affects moves we can make in the future. True.

So... lmao, what exactly isn't true about any of this? You idjits are just upset that your newest flight of fancy is dumb as shit -- trading Castle -- because it's so fucking laughable. The rest is fine.


How about you just go fuck yourself?
A couple of months back you posted (don't make me dig it up) that Fox is a no defense, severely undersized, inefficent chucker who does nothing else.
I spent a decent amount of time and effort, posted actual stats and compared him to other similar guards around the league...only for you to disappear and never reply.

Ever since then, you do your usual fucking thing of just triggerbaiting people with horrible takes, only to disappear when it's obvious you got nothing to back it up.
I'm not wasting any more effort on your bullshit.

Actually, I'll just add this.
It's obvious Fox isn't an MVP level player and will never be one, but he's a legit all-star guard we got for next to nothing. He clearly has flaws, much like any other players and noone ever denied it.
But your posts about him being an awful player were just bad troll attempts because you're not dumb and you know he's a good player with some flaws.
Now you're backtracking and trying to talk your way out of it as if you were objective from the beginning, but I just can't take you seriously because for months you've been shitting on him as if we just got Bledsoe or some shit.

[Mr. Body]

https://youtu.be/M7nA_EQ8zmw?si=BWra0ve3KBVz-iZp

Demin hasn't been mentioned for a while, but I wouldn't be surprised at the swing. He's floating around the end of the lottery right now, but could move up.

Clearly a project with significant rawness in his handle and shooting, a frame that needs to fill out, and athletic concerns, but his size and abilities are super intriguing. Parker here calls him the best passer in the draft and perhaps the best he's scouted in the three years he's done this series.

I could see going for a backup center here, if a Sorber is available, but this is still an era when they can swing at players. Depending on what happens with their earlier pick, if it's a sniper (Knueppel/Johnson), they can try a Demin to develop, especially as they will still have Harrison Barnes to cover that swing spot for now.

[rjv]

Guess if we wanted a straight interior scorer with no outside shot and major defensive red flags Edey would have been a way better choice.

god, it's been painful to watch edey in this series against OKC. he is so one-dimensional.

[TD 21]

So it's okay to infer that rascal is supposedly (reverse?) racially biased, but it's not okay to do likewise when the shoe is on the other foot? Got it.

Must mean doing so makes one racist, argumentative, arrogant and mentally challenged.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

I'm just being objective about Castle. I'm not trying to predict the future. I am saying that the present isn't really what a lot of posters seem to think it was.

Sure Chinook, always love to read your opinion! We are all biased to some degree.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

You haven’t watched him if you think he is a bad athlete lol! And even if he was there is more to basketball than athleticism. His shot looks better than most in this class. Good form. People need to stop looking at percentages and look at the form. Even then he shot 31% not bad for a college freshman. He has some Luka to his game. Shows some real playmaking skills. You have to project what young prospects can be. If you want the best athletes why not bring Lonnie Walker back. The best “shooter”? I’m sure you can get Reed Sheppard for cheap! He had a great shooting percentage in college. lol I’m convinced some here don’t watch any of these guys and just take some bad take and run with it.

Yes. Jaku will be a good shooter. His free throw rate is 90% which indicates good 3-point accuracy. He is just having a down year.

[vy65]

I'll take this from another perspective... our team isn't good enough/doesn't have enough talent to worry about fit at ANY position, including center. I love Wemby, Fox and Castle as much as anyone... the presence of any of them shouldn't stop us from drafting any player in this class, because there is room on the roster for any of them. Guard is the best player? Take 'em. We'll need a third guard anyway and if they slot into Fox's successor for whenever that will be... great. Center is the best player available? Great. We need a backup and Wemby can play alongside for a certain number of minutes each game. Forward is an obvious need so no second thoughts there.

Wemby, Castle or Fox shouldn't stop us from drafting anyone, because we aren't drafting their replacement... we're drafting replacements for the rest of the roster.

How could you do that to your boy Sea Bass?

[CGD]

Here’s a hypothetical (a variant of something I heard on a podcast).

Assume Spurs jump to 4. Flagg, Harper and Edgecomb are gone.

Is Ace the obvious pick there?

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Anyone noticed that Fleming's two eyes are further apart than usual?

Maybe that's the reason he shoots 3s well?

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Here’s a hypothetical (a variant of something I heard on a podcast).

Assume Spurs jump to 4. Flagg, Harper and Edgecomb are gone.

Is Ace the obvious pick there?

No. I would trade that pick down plus future pick.

[scott]

I guess I'd ask is there any overwhelming talent who would be a clear BPA after the top 4? Someone good enough to ignore fit? I don't think Maluach, Kon, Tre Johnson, or anyone else after Flagg, Harper, Edgecombe, and Bailey are the level of talent where you say this guy is too good to pass up even if he isn't really what we need. Edgecombe or Harper I get and Bailey is a great fit on paper at least, but you're probably drafting two role players. Or is there anyone you like that you see as a potential allstar who would be available #8 or later?

I think it’s the right question that the front office should be asking themselves. I don’t have strong enough opinions on this class to be able to have an answer, tbh. I’m going to operate under the assumption that whomever the Spurs take fits along with my approach, until the other members of this website tell me that we made a colossal Josh Primo-sized fuck up :lol

[baseline bum]

I think it’s the right question that the front office should be asking themselves. I don’t have strong enough opinions on this class to be able to have an answer, tbh. I’m going to operate under the assumption that whomever the Spurs take fits along with my approach, until the other members of this website tell me that we made a colossal Josh Primo-sized fuck up :lol

To be fair I remember in 1999 Mavs fans online acting like they made a Josh Primo-sized fuck up trading Tractor Traylor for some fucking Dirk Diggler loser from overseas. Even remember a pissed off caller on Jim Rome's show the next day bitching about that trade. :lol

[scott]

Scott took it up a notch and included Wemby.

Well, I think part of my including Wemby in the discussion is my belief that he is so unique and so special that there are lots of different ways to build around him. While pairing him with another C (say, Queen) sounds counter-intuitive (even to me), I believe in Wemby enough to think it could still work.

I’m starting to feel that we shouldn’t just apply the league-wide meta to our team and assume that is how we should build the team, because no other team running the league wide meta has a Wemby. He changes the equation that much, IMO.

[scott]

How could you do that to your boy Sea Bass?

I’m going to bid for an expansion team in Hawaii, and Sea Bass will be our team’s centerpiece. It’s a shame we don’t have actual Sea Bass here…

[sig]

IMO, Tre Johnson is gonna be really good. I think he makes it a group of 4 along with Harper, Bailey, Edgecombe that could go in any order once Flagg is selected. I do expect Harper goes 2nd.

[sig]

To be fair I remember in 1999 Mavs fans online acting like they made a Josh Primo-sized fuck up trading Tractor Traylor for some fucking Dirk Diggler loser from overseas. Even remember a pissed off caller on Jim Rome's show the next day bitching about that trade. :lol

That didn't apply to all Mavs fans. Mavs fans mostly wanted Pierce at6 and he fell to the pick just before Dirk I think. I saw Dirk dominate in the world vs US so I wasn't against that pick at all.

[Mr. Body]

IMO, Tre Johnson is gonna be really good. I think he makes it a group of 4 along with Harper, Bailey, Edgecombe that could go in any order once Flagg is selected. I do expect Harper goes 2nd.

I'd trade up for Johnson. I'm not sure between him and Edgecombe, would before Bailey. Tre playing off what we have on offense could be really good.

[baseline bum]

That didn't apply to all Mavs fans. Mavs fans mostly wanted Pierce at6 and he fell to the pick just before Dirk I think. I saw Dirk dominate in the world vs US so I wasn't against that pick at all.

Nah Pierce fell to fucking 10! I couldn't believe it watching that draft. I thought Vancouver was gonna take him second. Figured the Clippers would be the Clippers and select Kandiass #1 though. :lol

[BacktoBasics]

Well, I think part of my including Wemby in the discussion is my belief that he is so unique and so special that there are lots of different ways to build around him. While pairing him with another C (say, Queen) sounds counter-intuitive (even to me), I believe in Wemby enough to think it could still work.

I’m starting to feel that we shouldn’t just apply the league-wide meta to our team and assume that is how we should build the team, because no other team running the league wide meta has a Wemby. He changes the equation that much, IMO.

Certainly speaks to demanding teams adjust to us rather than build our roster to answer to other teams. I think your suggestion is the smart approach.

[Vienna]

I think Jakucionis will rise in the draft process. or, in other words, he never fell on the teams boards, like he fell on Most draft boards. some teams will see a much better shooter than the numbers tell. In fact, his shooting splits are strange. he shot very good on step back 3s (40%, almost half of his atempts) but pretty bad on C&S (below 30%). 3/4 of his 3PA came off the dribble. and is very good from the line. His mid season wrist injury clearly hurt his shooting. put those factors together and you get a shooter who projects better than his overall number from this season.

evrything else teams will like. good size (for a PG), measured 6‘4.5“ w/o shoes on the basketball without borders camp last year. decent athlete (38“ vertical). very good rebounder for a guard. Great passer and playmaker.
and he will win the interviews. Very mature and bright young man, very positive and confident personality. they will love him. They will see someone, who can lead a team soon. don‘t be surprised, if he is picked at #5. if Spurs pick him, I wouldn‘t mind either.

[Dejounte]

I’m counting on one of these guys to be our 2nd round pick:

Noah Penda - quite possibly the best defender in the draft
Miles Byrd - another solid defender
Maxim Reynaud - Wemby’s best pal

also isnt it crazy that a 2nd round pick is a finalist in this year’s rookie of the year race

[scott]

I’m counting on one of these guys to be our 2nd round pick:

Noah Penda - quite possibly the best defender in the draft
Miles Byrd - another solid defender
Maxim Reynaud - Wemby’s best pal

also isnt it crazy that a 2nd round pick is a finalist in this year’s rookie of the year race

If Cash Considerations are on the board, I don’t see how we pass it up with our SRP, tbh

[baseline bum]

If Cash Considerations are on the board, I don’t see how we pass it up with our SRP, tbh

Shortys running wild smoking sess and drinking beer and ain't trying to hear what I'm kicking in his ear

[Dejounte]

DI31Er8t04m


If I told you Queen would become one of the best shooting bigs of this class, how high would you take him?

I guess a better way to ask this question is… if a big in this class had the best offense (whole package: ISO, shooting, post offense, everything) but the worst defense… how much is he worth?

IMO, I don’t think any big’s defense could be worse than Sengun’s and his team is able to make it work. Today’s offense is just that much more important than defense, tbh.

[scott]

Shortys running wild smoking sess and drinking beer and ain't trying to hear what I'm kicking in his ear

Need someone with Photoshop skills to superimpose Holt Jr on Inspectah Deck

[scott]

DI31Er8t04m


If I told you Queen would become one of the best shooting bigs of this class, how high would you take him?

I guess a better way to ask this question is… if a big in this class had the best offense (whole package: ISO, shooting, post offense, everything) but the worst defense… how much is he worth?

IMO, I don’t think any big’s defense could be worse than Sengun’s and his team is able to make it work. Today’s offense is just that much more important than defense, tbh.

I think a fair question to ask is how bad could his defense possibly be playing next to Wemby?

And… could it possibly be worse than what we already have?

Does Queen look like he can become a capable defender? Does he have the tools and just lacks the discipline and work ethic? Or is he just so slow footed that it’s never going to happen? I’m not going to actually watch any of his tape… I’ve decided I want to go into this draft forming my opinions solely based on what I read on ST and hear from Veceine :lol

[baseline bum]

Need someone with Photoshop skills to superimpose Holt Jr on Inspectah Deck

To kick the truth to the young nepo-baby youth

[Dejounte]

I think a fair question to ask is how bad could his defense possibly be playing next to Wemby?

And… could it possibly be worse than what we already have?

Does Queen look like he can become a capable defender? Does he have the tools and just lacks the discipline and work ethic? Or is he just so slow footed that it’s never going to happen? I’m not going to actually watch any of his tape… I’ve decided I want to go into this draft forming my opinions solely based on what I read on ST and hear from Veceine :lol

My guess is discipline and mindset. He may believe his offense is so good that he’d just outscore his opponent and/ or he feels that he spends so much energy on offense that he tries to preserve his energy on defense (a common thing among NBA players, even stars say they do this).

[Dejounte]

It’s important to make sure you don’t listen to people who were high on Cody Williams last year :lmao scott (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=150)

i’m pointing out Cody, but there have been bad takes like that year after year. I’ve had my share, but way fewer than most tbh

[baseline bum]

It’s important to make sure you don’t listen to people who were high on Cody Williams last year :lmao scott

Wish I could say I was high when I was thinking about Cody at 8 tbh

[scott]

Cody may well turn out fine, I wouldn’t worry about it too much at this phase. I think sometimes we’re too impatient with these kids.

But… I did want Buzelis at 8, and still think that would have been a good pick.

[Mr. Body]

DI31Er8t04m


If I told you Queen would become one of the best shooting bigs of this class, how high would you take him?

I guess a better way to ask this question is… if a big in this class had the best offense (whole package: ISO, shooting, post offense, everything) but the worst defense… how much is he worth?

IMO, I don’t think any big’s defense could be worse than Sengun’s and his team is able to make it work. Today’s offense is just that much more important than defense, tbh.

If Queen is like a Sam Perkins you definitely take him mid lottery in this era.

[Mr. Body]

I think Jakucionis will rise in the draft process. or, in other words, he never fell on the teams boards, like he fell on Most draft boards. some teams will see a much better shooter than the numbers tell. In fact, his shooting splits are strange. he shot very good on step back 3s (40%, almost half of his atempts) but pretty bad on C&S (below 30%). 3/4 of his 3PA came off the dribble. and is very good from the line. His mid season wrist injury clearly hurt his shooting. put those factors together and you get a shooter who projects better than his overall number from this season.

evrything else teams will like. good size (for a PG), measured 6‘4.5“ w/o shoes on the basketball without borders camp last year. decent athlete (38“ vertical). very good rebounder for a guard. Great passer and playmaker.
and he will win the interviews. Very mature and bright young man, very positive and confident personality. they will love him. They will see someone, who can lead a team soon. don‘t be surprised, if he is picked at #5. if Spurs pick him, I wouldn‘t mind either.

Agree, Jakucionis and Demin I think are very much in play.

[mo7888]

DI31Er8t04m


If I told you Queen would become one of the best shooting bigs of this class, how high would you take him?

I guess a better way to ask this question is… if a big in this class had the best offense (whole package: ISO, shooting, post offense, everything) but the worst defense… how much is he worth?

IMO, I don’t think any big’s defense could be worse than Sengun’s and his team is able to make it work. Today’s offense is just that much more important than defense, tbh.

It's a great question. If by shooting you're including a high percentage from behind the arc then I'd say top 4. He would instantly make Sochan playable at the 3.

[Robz4000]

DI31Er8t04m


If I told you Queen would become one of the best shooting bigs of this class, how high would you take him?

I guess a better way to ask this question is… if a big in this class had the best offense (whole package: ISO, shooting, post offense, everything) but the worst defense… how much is he worth?

IMO, I don’t think any big’s defense could be worse than Sengun’s and his team is able to make it work. Today’s offense is just that much more important than defense, tbh.

If you told me Queen becomes a 38% 3-point shooter I'd take him over everyone not named Flagg and Harper tbh. I already assume he'll become an average defender.

[RC_Drunkford]

I’m counting on one of these guys to be our 2nd round pick:

Noah Penda - quite possibly the best defender in the draft
Miles Byrd - another solid defender
Maxim Reynaud - Wemby’s best pal

also isnt it crazy that a 2nd round pick is a finalist in this year’s rookie of the year race

I think there are quite some good centers in the 2nd round, but haven't done much scouting. Drafting a 3rd string C would make the most sense to me there.


DI31Er8t04m


If I told you Queen would become one of the best shooting bigs of this class, how high would you take him?

I guess a better way to ask this question is… if a big in this class had the best offense (whole package: ISO, shooting, post offense, everything) but the worst defense… how much is he worth?

IMO, I don’t think any big’s defense could be worse than Sengun’s and his team is able to make it work. Today’s offense is just that much more important than defense, tbh.


his defense is the only thing that worries me. His 3-point shot coming along is not far fetched, since he's already a good midrange shooter, he should be able to extend his range.

[scottspurs]

I’m taking Queen over Harper. Only Flagg is better.

[scottspurs]

If you told me Queen becomes a 38% 3-point shooter I'd take him over everyone not named Flagg and Harper tbh. I already assume he'll become an average defender.

If Queen shoots 38% from 3 he has franchise player potential. He would be 1a offense weapon on Spurs 2-3 years from now even over Wemby if that is the case. He would lead the offense while Wemby leads the defense.

[scottspurs]

Also I got off of Instagram so I haven’t seen these Derik Queen pics! Looks like he has lost even more weight. Damn, he is going to mess around and go 3rd overall!

[John B]

DI31Er8t04m


If I told you Queen would become one of the best shooting bigs of this class, how high would you take him?

I guess a better way to ask this question is… if a big in this class had the best offense (whole package: ISO, shooting, post offense, everything) but the worst defense… how much is he worth?

IMO, I don’t think any big’s defense could be worse than Sengun’s and his team is able to make it work. Today’s offense is just that much more important than defense, tbh.

It looks like he has lost a lot of weights and putting more core muscle. If this continues he’ll be top 5 and too far where Spurs pick is right now. I’m betting on everyone’s eyes on Queen and ignoring who could be the more all-around big, Sorber.

[LeBowen]

We should still take the BPA, regardless of the position. There are enough minutes available. Some picks might require moving a current player, but it's not like anyone they're worth shit. Other than Fox, Castle and Wemby, obviously.
I got no clue if Queen's game will translate, but there shouldn't be any fit issues on either end of the floor, we had Sochan playing next to Wemby, ffs.

Either Sorber or Queen can play the non-Wemby minutes at C and 10 to 15 minutes together with Wemby in their rookie season. If they're good, we worry about the fit later.
Even if you we know someone is going to be good, but won't fit the team, it's a great way to generate more future assets. Like Fox/Haliburton situation.

[Dejounte]

It looks like he has lost a lot of weights and putting more core muscle. If this continues he’ll be top 5 and too far where Spurs pick is right now. I’m betting on everyone’s eyes on Queen and ignoring who could be the more all-around big, Sorber.

I was watching more Sorber film and two more things stuck out to me.

There was a game where his matchup was acting like Draymond, being super physical and trying to get in his head all game. Sorber was unbothered through it all. He played his game calm, cool, collected. Very Tim Duncan-like, IMO.

In another game, he was commanding the defense and barking at his teammates to get in position. The Spurs have always preached to communicate to each other when they’re on the floor.

this guy seems like the perfect Spur, tbh.

[BackHome]

My big concern with Sorber is his injury which was a broken foot

[Knoxxx]

I’m counting on one of these guys to be our 2nd round pick:

Noah Penda - quite possibly the best defender in the draft
Miles Byrd - another solid defender
Maxim Reynaud - Wemby’s best pal

also isnt it crazy that a 2nd round pick is a finalist in this year’s rookie of the year race

I think there are some good options for a backup center in round 2. Reynaud sure, I mention Kalkbrenner and nobody ever replies. K is an older prospect but that means we don’t have to wait as long for him to contribute as a more ready made prospect and he has excellent height and even shoots the 3 ball well.

[mo7888]

I think there are some good options for a backup center in round 2. Reynaud sure, I mention Kalkbrenner and nobody ever replies. K is an older prospect but that means we don’t have to wait as long for him to contribute as a more ready made prospect and he has excellent height and even shoots the 3 ball well.

I like Kalkbrenner alot. #30 on my board, so I'd be really happy if he's available when we pick. He's got the potential to contribute year 1

[Russ]

My big concern with Sorber is his injury which was a broken foot

Buy low.

[Knoxxx]

Buy low.

I like Sorber's film that showed extremely aggressive defense. We need one of those 1.5ers, 3 stocks a game types that get equal part blocks and steals and have good length. The times we were playing Sochan or Barnes at C made me want to vomit, except that I kept in mind we needed every loss we could down the stretch. We need a legit small ball center. We also can use a long 3/SF/PF. Thus, Queen + a Fleming or Sorber should not be out of the question.

If we are picking at 8 (not top 4), my main hope is that Maluach goes top 7, pushing better options down to us. I am not excited at all at Maluach at 8, I just feel like he's not versatile enough to warrant many minutes. Hence, he becomes a much too expensive option at 8 to play backup C, effectively.

Edit: on a proofread I want to be clear, I don't want to draft both Queen AND Sorber. Neither one shoots from outside well currently, so we don't need to add two players with that same question mark that play the same position.

[Vienna]

Pick 1 to 3 are set. Ace will be #3, even if he might become a bust. there is just to much of what teams are looking for.

so from 4 on things start to get interesting. I put Edgecome, Johnson, Fears and Jakucionis in the same tier. I do believe, any of those can end up as the 4th pick. why? any of them has a NBA skill that will translate and enough potential, to at least become at least a quality starter. But they just need to get better in one department they currently don‘t cover and they will be all stars.
and that’s why this group is the most interesting for the Spurs IMO.
1 or 2 or 3 are no brainers.
4 will be one of the mentioned group, but pick 8 as well, if just one team picks differently. (and one team from 4 to 7 will pick Queen).

Pick 9 will need some more luck though, but in that case those 4 will likely be gone. If that‘s the case, Spurs will likely reach for Bryant, Demin or Essengue, who I think they have protected as the 2nd pick. If they need to use the first pick on one of this three, they will just wait who falls to 14. might be another one of the mentioned group, because Kon, Maluach, Richardson, Newell could be 10 to 13.

my guess right now is, that draft night will deliver Jakucionis and Essengue.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

If Queen shoots 38% from 3 he has franchise player potential. He would be 1a offense weapon on Spurs 2-3 years from now even over Wemby if that is the case. He would lead the offense while Wemby leads the defense.

If you can guarantee Queen can shoot 38% from 3, I would pick him at #2.

Problems, how many time we anticipate guys to shoot like that and got disappointed? Especially big guys?

The chance is less than 20%. That's why I would pick guys who is already shooting 3 well.

With our big 3 already in house, we need to pick safe guys and ready to compete now.

[duncan2150]

My big concern with Sorber is his injury which was a broken foot

I read somewhere that it's a turf toe not a broken foot.

[sfernald]

Pick 1 to 3 are set. Ace will be #3, even if he might become a bust. there is just to much of what teams are looking for.

so from 4 on things start to get interesting. I put Edgecome, Johnson, Fears and Jakucionis in the same tier. I do believe, any of those can end up as the 4th pick. why? any of them has a NBA skill that will translate and enough potential, to at least become at least a quality starter. But they just need to get better in one department they currently don‘t cover and they will be all stars.
and that’s why this group is the most interesting for the Spurs IMO.
1 or 2 or 3 are no brainers.
4 will be one of the mentioned group, but pick 8 as well, if just one team picks differently. (and one team from 4 to 7 will pick Queen).

Pick 9 will need some more luck though, but in that case those 4 will likely be gone. If that‘s the case, Spurs will likely reach for Bryant, Demin or Essengue, who I think they have protected as the 2nd pick. If they need to use the first pick on one of this three, they will just wait who falls to 14. might be another one of the mentioned group, because Kon, Maluach, Richardson, Newell could be 10 to 13.

my guess right now is, that draft night will deliver Jakucionis and Essengue.

So we will be able to predict this better when we know the final draft order, but I’m certain Flagg, Harper, Edgecomb and Bailey will go in the top 7, probably first four in that order. If you saw the espn big board recently, givony is saying that fears is killing it in workouts and is pushing himself to the top of the draft. Also, tre is showing out too. Since those two guys are possible 1a players I expect them to go in the top 7 too. The last one is a bit of a wild card, but since Toronto is likely to draft right before us, I’m expecting Malauch to get drafted before us too.

That leaves us to draft anyone else. I think either kon or queen would be great #8 picks, but I can be convinced of several others actually. It’s a pretty open field to me.

[mo7888]

So we will be able to predict this better when we know the final draft order, but I’m certain Flagg, Harper, Edgecomb and Bailey will go in the top 7, probably first four in that order. If you saw the espn big board recently, givony is saying that fears is killing it in workouts and is pushing himself to the top of the draft. Also, tre is showing out too. Since those two guys are possible 1a players I expect them to go in the top 7 too. The last one is a bit of a wild card, but since Toronto is likely to draft right before us, I’m expecting Malauch to get drafted before us too.

That leaves us to draft anyone else. I think either kon or queen would be great #8 picks, but I can be convinced of several others actually. It’s a pretty open field to me.

I would love for Maluach and Fears to go top 7. It gives us great options.

[rankingtear]

I would love for Maluach and Fears to go top 7. It gives us great options.

We have way more options if Fears last until 8 he is the kind of player teams move up for and he is our likely pure BPA.

[mo7888]

We have way more options if Fears last until 8 he is the kind of player teams move up for and he is our likely pure BPA.

It might give us more trade options, but if he goes earlier it will push down better options for taking a player.

[rankingtear]

It might give us more trade options, but if he goes earlier it will push down better options for taking a player.

Fears is a consensus 5th right now what better options.

[mo7888]

Fears is a consensus 5th right now what better options.

I don't think Fears is a top 15 option on our board. We don't really need a PG who can shoot from deep. He may very well be top 5 on some boards which is why if he's available at 8 it gives us trade option, but for us I doubt we'd go there with Fox and Castle on board.

[Dejounte]

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=jeremiah-fears--johnny-davis--jimmer-fredette

Fears impact stats is so poor. Hope he fools NBA GMs

[Mr. Body]

I don't think Fears compares too well to Fredette or Davis. They're different players. He's also younger at time of draft.

The best comparison, or at least much better, is... De'Aaron Fox. They're practically the same player in stature and skillset, as I've been saying over and over, which is why drafting him doesn't make sense. Fox was a good bit better coming out of college.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=jeremiah-fears--de-aaron-fox

[Dejounte]

I did not add those two players because I thought they played similar to Fears. I added them to show how wildly successful college players with no serious NBA talent don’t end up making any splash in the NBA.

[rankingtear]

I don't think Fears is a to 25 option on our board. We don't really need a PG who can shoot from deep. He may very well be top 5 on some boards which is why if he's available at 8 it gives us trade option, but for us I doubt we'd go there with Fox and Castle on board.

I don't believe it, young lefty with downhill ability with the most trade value currently should not be a late first guy on our board. He would likely retain much of his value even when we keep him cause there is zero adjustments, with the offense built on a lefty downhill guard with an iffy shot.

[Mr. Body]

I don't believe it, young lefty with downhill ability with the most trade value currently should not be a late first guy on our board. He would likely retain much of his value even when we keep him cause there is zero adjustments, with the offense built on a lefty downhill guard with an iffy shot.

There is absolutely no way you can play Fox and Fears at the same time. That means you're using a lottery pick on a guy who gets 14 minutes a game. Drafting him is senseless.

[mo7888]

I don't believe it, young lefty with downhill ability with the most trade value currently should not be a late first guy on our board. He would likely retain much of his value even when we keep him cause there is zero adjustments, with the offense built on a lefty downhill guard with an iffy shot.

That was a typo I corrected. Top 15 was what it should have said

[rascal]

Would you take McNeeley over Fleming though? I'd really hope to get one of them out of the ATL pick.

It's a close call. I wouldn't mind getting both and I don't care if they are projected a few picks lower than 8. The players projected around 8 aren't any better. Together they will fit nicely onto the team's needs.

I know some here are wanting to draft backup guards but upgrading and adding more depth at SF and PF is more important for the current team.

[rankingtear]

There is absolutely no way you can play Fox and Fears at the same time. That means you're using a lottery pick on a guy who gets 14 minutes a game. Drafting him is senseless.

Aren't you the one who said Fox does not factor into anything?

[benefactor]

Aren't you the one who said Fox does not factor into anything?
He never wanted Fox. He hand waves any future plan involving him. He talks like Fox is 33 and will only effective another year or so

[Mr. Body]

Aren't you the one who said Fox does not factor into anything?

How do you people read things and not understand anything?

[Mr. Body]

He never wanted Fox. He hand waves any future plan involving him. He talks like Fox is 33 and will only effective another year or so

I've talked about how Fox is 28 years old next year and only impacts the first maybe third or hopefully fourth of Wemby's career.

Which is true.

Lol, you guys were obsessed with getting an expensive player, swore Fox is a top twenty player in the league, and both think he's going to be the franchise fire the next fifteen years and we need to trade for another max guy.

Stop exaggerating and just get real.

[rankingtear]

How do you people read things and not understand anything?

Cause you are doing a Chinook impression and contradicting yourself in the same post.

[spurraider21]

there have been bad takes like that year after year. I’ve had my share, but way fewer than most tbh
we're all amateurs, no need to suck your own dick here

[Bruno]

The Fox trade has sped up the timetable of the rebuilding. Spurs off-season can't just be to add a couple of rookies. Trades and significant free agent signings should be part of it.

Spurs pick (likely 8th or 9th) and Hawks pick likely (14th) are two great trade assets. It opens some questions: What is the best vet you can get for #8/#9 ? for #14 ? How much more trade value can you get for #8/#9 than for #14 ?

I'm not sold on most of the players available at #8/#9 for Spurs. Players like Fears, Queen, Maluach, Jakucionis, CMB or Demin are questionable fit and/or talent. Spurs might end up trading that pick.

At #14, there are a bunch of fine prospects who aren't good enough to be picked at #8/#9: Liam McNeeley, Noa Essengue, Carter Bryant And Asa Newell.

[Vienna]

I agree about the timeline aspect, but I don‘t agree about the logic regarding trading 8/9. if the draft wasn‘t offering enough talent in that region, the pick‘s trade value would be limited as well, right? so, would they really burn it as a trade bait for someone like, say, Cam Johnson? I think they would rather use some of the future picks, to make such trades work.
but I agree that they might not pick two guys. so any trade action on draft night will be in play. and this might be a trade up scenario as well, if they don‘t like the talent at 8. (I know that trade ups not often happen though)
overall I do think they see this draft still as the right moment to bring future talent in, even if the plan is, to go for the PO next year.
they should have enough options to go both directions.

[rankingtear]

See Bruno agrees. It is best for high trade value players to drop to our picks. We should pray the role guys are picked before us like Malauch, CMB and Nipple to set us up for equal value trade.

[mo7888]

See Bruno agrees. It is best for high trade value players to drop to our picks. We should pray the role guys are picked before us like Malauch, CMB and Nipple to set us up for equal value trade.

He said he wasnt sold on Fears, that's not exactly agreeing with you. If the central tenant of your argument is "we should be open to trades" then just about everyone here agrees with you and that includes picks and players if the deal is right.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Bit off topic but watching Samanic right now. Can confirm he’s still an utter idiot.

Edit: game’s over now, so just to expand. His team is up 5 with 2 mins to go, he makes 2 incredibly dumb fouls, one on defence, one on offence. Then he has a horrible defensive play where he turns his back on the attacker (gets bailed out).

And finally, the cherry on top - they’re up 3 and have the ball with 10 seconds to go. They inbound to Samanic, he doesn’t hold the ball waiting to be fouled but attacks immediately and misses, the other team hit a 3 with the buzzer to send the game to overtime. He’s promptly benched for the OT, his team proceed to win in double OT.

Samanic literally a mix of the worst of Simmons and Russ.

[Dejounte]

Mitch Johnson reiterated at the end of the regular season that they will be taking it slow and that there will be no shortcuts. He said they are focused on the core players. Doubt they change that approach and make a lot of trades. They will be opportunistic again.

I checked out Ryan Kalkbrenner and he looks nice. I think if they go cheap again for bigs, he’s a nice option. However, I think since last year’s draft, they are waiting for the right big to fall to them. Their interest in Salaun last year (bringing him in for a workout, Tony Parker wanting to be the first one to call it, and all of that) showed that if their target is there, they will take him. I doubt they don’t do anything serious with their frontcourt situation— they don’t want to continue playing the other guys like Sochan out of position.

[Bruno]

I agree about the timeline aspect, but I don‘t agree about the logic regarding trading 8/9. if the draft wasn‘t offering enough talent in that region, the pick‘s trade value would be limited as well, right? so, would they really burn it as a trade bait for someone like, say, Cam Johnson? I think they would rather use some of the future picks, to make such trades work.

Value of the pick might be higher to another team than for Spurs. A player like Derrick Queen should be viewed as a high quality prospect by rebuilding teams while, for Spurs, there is the obvious question mark about his fit with Wembanyama.

The reasoning behind trading Spurs' pic is just that Spurs mostly need forwards who can shoot and that most of the BPAs at 8th/9th should be guards or centers who can't shoot. Saying that, I'm not sure exactly for who Spurs should trade that pick. Cam Johnson is great fit wise but is he really worth trading away such a high pick?

[Mal]

Cam Johnson is great fit wise but is he really worth trading away such a high pick?

I wonder if Nets would be interested in swapping 8 OA + Keldon for early 20 pick and Cam Johnson

[baseline bum]

Mitch Johnson reiterated at the end of the regular season that they will be taking it slow and that there will be no shortcuts. He said they are focused on the core players. Doubt they change that approach and make a lot of trades. They will be opportunistic again.

I checked out Ryan Kalkbrenner and he looks nice. I think if they go cheap again for bigs, he’s a nice option. However, I think since last year’s draft, they are waiting for the right big to fall to them. Their interest in Salaun last year (bringing him in for a workout, Tony Parker wanting to be the first one to call it, and all of that) showed that if their target is there, they will take him. I doubt they don’t do anything serious with their frontcourt situation— they don’t want to continue playing the other guys like Sochan out of position.

JFC if Coach Fivehead is back next year. Spurs need to fire Pop already and go out and get a coach.

[Dejounte]

My ranking of draft prospects by position:

PG, point guard (1 only - usually due to lack of size or poor defensive versatility)
1. Fears
2. Fland

G, guard (1 and 2)
1. VJ Edgecombe
2. Jase Richardson
3. Kasparas
4. Nolan Traore

GW, guard-wing (1 and 2 and 3)
1. Dylan Harper
2. Ben Saraf

W, wing (2 and 3)
1. Kon Knueppel
2. Tre Johnson
3. Will Riley

WF, wing-forward (2 and 3 and 4)
1. Egor Demin

F, forward (3 and 4)
1. Cooper Flagg
2. Ace Bailey
3. Carter Bryant
4. Noah Penda
5. Noa Essengue
6. Liam McNeeley

FC, forward-center (4 and 5)
1. Sorber
2. Queen
3. Fleming
4. Wolf
5. CMB
6. Yaxel Lendeborg
7. Asa Newell

C, center (5 only - usually due to lack of offensive skills or poor mobility)
1. Malauch
2. Joan Beringer
3. Ryan Kalkbrenner

[mo7888]

My ranking of draft prospects by position:

PG, point guard (1 only - usually due to lack of size or poor defensive versatility)
1. Fears
2. Fland

G, guard (1 and 2)
1. VJ Edgecombe
2. Jase Richardson
3. Kasparas
4. Nolan Traore

GW, guard-wing (1 and 2 and 3)
1. Dylan Harper
2. Ben Saraf

W, wing (2 and 3)
1. Kon Knueppel
2. Tre Johnson
3. Will Riley

WF, wing-forward (2 and 3 and 4)
1. Egor Demin

F, forward (3 and 4)
1. Cooper Flagg
2. Ace Bailey
3. Carter Bryant
4. Noah Penda
5. Noa Essengue
6. Liam McNeeley

FC, forward-center (4 and 5)
1. Sorber
2. Queen
3. Fleming
4. Wolf
5. CMB
6. Yaxel Lendeborg
7. Asa Newell

C, center (5 only - usually due to lack of offensive skills or poor mobility)
1. Malauch
2. Joan Beringer
3. Ryan Kalkbrenner

Is this for a Spurs board or just in general overall?

[Dejounte]

Is this for a Spurs board or just in general overall?

General… and what I’d hope the Spurs would have too… so both, I guess

[KobesAchilles]

Imagine the Spurs thinking we have more than 3 “core players.” Take what slow exactly? Learning how to play defense? Everyone knows it takes 6 years to learn how to switch a screen guys or to not ball watch the entire possession. I look at other young teams (like Cleveland, Detroit, OKC) and they play smart basketball. Meanwhile our team is like let’s take it slow. We have “core pieces” that are young and need to learn how to play.

Fire Pop and use his money on actual player development please. I’m tired of all this low level basketball.

[rankingtear]

He said he wasnt sold on Fears, that's not exactly agreeing with you. If the central tenant of your argument is "we should be open to trades" then just about everyone here agrees with you and that includes picks and players if the deal is right.

I was not sold either.

[Mr. Body]

Imagine the Spurs thinking we have more than 3 “core players.” Take what slow exactly? Learning how to play defense? Everyone knows it takes 6 years to learn how to switch a screen guys or to not ball watch the entire possession. I look at other young teams (like Cleveland, Detroit, OKC) and they play smart basketball. Meanwhile our team is like let’s take it slow. We have “core pieces” that are young and need to learn how to play.

Fire Pop and use his money on actual player development please. I’m tired of all this low level basketball.

I don't know why it's hard to understand plain English.

They're on the same track they were two summers ago. They wanted to see what works around Wembanyama. They did. They wanted to build those pieces in. They are. This year, they wanted to add veterans to help the overall team, but obviously not everything is there yet.

Somehow you are forgetting that this was a team on track to make at worst the play-in in a psychotically hard Western Conference until Wembanyama got hurt and then went down.

In the midst of this, they managed to get a very good older player who raises the talent level and barely gave up anything to get him, in Fox. Which is what you people kept insisting they do -- but wanting give up the farm to do so. Somehow they didn't give up the farm.

Now, people like you want to give up the farm for expensive players who might only serve for a few years. Maybe they should, maybe they will.

But this childish screaming about what's going on is just so completely stupid, to be honest. Why I get a huge laugh at this board. Consistently the people with horrible ideas look back at their horrible ideas, acknowledge them, then get really, really mad when others point out how horrible their current ideas are. Maybe if you keep coming up with horrible ideas, change your approach?

That's neither here nor there. The point is -- this team IS where it needs to be at this point. You just get jumpy because other teams are further along the timeline. The FO is going to add more pieces, but aren't in a big fucking rush because 1) they're already a play-in team, 2) some teams in the WC are going to decay very soon, 3) they added a major piece in Fox who will be good for a number of years for nothing.

And, no, to throw fuel on the fire, they're not trading Keldon or Devin 'just because.' That's wild. They're not trading Castle for any imaginable reason. Just hold the fuck on. If you gotta pee, go pee. Don't dance around like a toddler.

[LeBowen]

I don't know why it's hard to understand plain English.

They're on the same track they were two summers ago. They wanted to see what works around Wembanyama. They did. They wanted to build those pieces in. They are. This year, they wanted to add veterans to help the overall team, but obviously not everything is there yet.

Somehow you are forgetting that this was a team on track to make at worst the play-in in a psychotically hard Western Conference until Wembanyama got hurt and then went down.

In the midst of this, they managed to get a very good older player who raises the talent level and barely gave up anything to get him, in Fox. Which is what you people kept insisting they do -- but wanting give up the farm to do so. Somehow they didn't give up the farm.

Now, people like you want to give up the farm for expensive players who might only serve for a few years. Maybe they should, maybe they will.

But this childish screaming about what's going on is just so completely stupid, to be honest. Why I get a huge laugh at this board. Consistently the people with horrible ideas look back at their horrible ideas, acknowledge them, then get really, really mad when others point out how horrible their current ideas are. Maybe if you keep coming up with horrible ideas, change your approach?

That's neither here nor there. The point is -- this team IS where it needs to be at this point. You just get jumpy because other teams are further along the timeline. The FO is going to add more pieces, but aren't in a big fucking rush because 1) they're already a play-in team, 2) some teams in the WC are going to decay very soon, 3) they added a major piece in Fox who will be good for a number of years for nothing.

And, no, to throw fuel on the fire, they're not trading Keldon or Devin 'just because.' That's wild. They're not trading Castle for any imaginable reason. Just hold the fuck on. If you gotta pee, go pee. Don't dance around like a toddler.

Fair take, but you didn't mention the biggest issue, which is coaching.
The uncertainty needs to be resolved before the draft night.

RC needs to step in and tell Pop it's time to retire, he's the only one who can do it. Or even have Timmy convince him.
Having Pop still formally in charge with his health issue would be awful, we need to figure out a direction before the draft night and more importantly free agency.

I honestly don't care which style of basketball Spurs go for, as long as it enables them to be a serious contender in a few years.
But we can't complete the roster, mainly that PF position, before we know who's in charge and what's his style of basketball going to be.

As for current roster, my biggest issue is Devin's fit. I don't believe he's the long term scorer we need, but I understand where people who believe in him are coming from.
One thing that's not up for debate for me is him in the starting lineup. If we go with Fox/Castle/Devin we're giving up so much advantage on both ends of the floor.
Players way better than Devin accepted a 6th man role for the sake of winning, he should do the same.

[Mr. Body]

Fair take, but you didn't mention the biggest issue, which is coaching.
The uncertainty needs to be resolved before the draft night.

RC needs to step in and tell Pop it's time to retire, he's the only one who can do it. Or even have Timmy convince him.
Having Pop still formally in charge with his health issue would be awful, we need to figure out a direction before the draft night and more importantly free agency.

I honestly don't care which style of basketball Spurs go for, as long as it enables them to be a serious contender in a few years.
But we can't complete the roster, mainly that PF position, before we know who's in charge and what's his style of basketball going to be.

As for current roster, my biggest issue is Devin's fit. I don't believe he's the long term scorer we need, but I understand where people who believe in him are coming from.
One thing that's not up for debate for me is him in the starting lineup. If we go with Fox/Castle/Devin we're giving up so much advantage on both ends of the floor.
Players way better than Devin accepted a 6th man role for the sake of winning, he should do the same.

I do agree with the coaching issue, very much, although I think Pop's presence would have really helped the development of players this year. But going forward it's an issue.

My think with Keldon and Vassel -- I don't think they're long term fits. But they are NBA players, and I don't think we're in the place to just get rid of them with nothing sliding in. Same with Sochan. I can see him getting moved, but we can't just lose talent for no reason. Hopefully we can upgrade, but we'd have to do it while they're still there. (Or trade them for a piece.) I'm not too worried about them, tbh. They're fine for now.

[sfernald]

Cody may well turn out fine, I wouldn’t worry about it too much at this phase. I think sometimes we’re too impatient with these kids.

But… I did want Buzelis at 8, and still think that would have been a good pick.

I really wanted Buzelis too at 8. Castle and Buzelis, i recall thinking that would be the perfect draft. They went a different way, but not sure a better way in the long run cause Buzelis looks like he might become a great player and would fit perfectly in the starting lineup.

[BackHome]

Yeah I think your right both had a good year and definitely Buz was a position of need and definitely think they would have played well with each other.

[baseline bum]

I really wanted Buzelis too at 8. Castle and Buzelis, i recall thinking that would be the perfect draft. They went a different way, but not sure a better way in the long run cause Buzelis looks like he might become a great player and would fit perfectly in the starting lineup.

Yeah Buzelis was my second choice at 8 (Holland first), as figured no reason not to swing for the fences on upside with a second pick. Of course I'm thrilled it became Fox instead, especially since Fox was who we all wished Dillingham and Sheppard were.

[scottspurs]

I had Buzelis as my top prospect last year but I also wanted to swing for the fences since the draft was so bad. I viewed last draft as a draft with nobody having all-Star potential. People called it the role player draft but I didn’t even see to many players that even had a defined role. That was a weird draft lol.

[Knoxxx]

Maluach is in just before the deadline. Good news for us, to get other teams to consider him in the top 7.

Tankathon showing 7 to 9 as Maluach, Fears, Newell.

THAT is why there have been so many proposals for us to draft Queen or Jaku at 8, since not too many (nor myself) seem too excited about the 3 above players. So it's not that we are incredibly excited about Queen/Jaku so much as that the other 3 seem more like booby prizes in comparison.

[Knoxxx]

I had Buzelis as my top prospect last year but I also wanted to swing for the fences since the draft was so bad. I viewed last draft as a draft with nobody having all-Star potential. People called it the role player draft but I didn’t even see to many players that even had a defined role. That was a weird draft lol.

I was super solid on Castle at 4. EXCEPT, I was willing to be teased by Shephard dropping simply due to our extreme need for more shooting, also being biased by the fact he was mocking at 3 (which fortunately held up) and that gave me some of the wanting what you can't have bias.

I was totally out on Dilly at 4, since I felt strongly he'd be there at 8 and he weighed 160 pounds or whatever.

I mainly liked Knecht and Edey at 8, but Buzelis would have been fine by me also. I was not entirely convinced Buzelis would be a good NBA shooter, or else I'd have been higher on him.

[Chinook]

Cause you are doing a Chinook impression and contradicting yourself in the same post.

WTF did I do?

[CGD]

I wonder if Nets would be interested in swapping 8 OA + Keldon for early 20 pick and Cam Johnson

Again with Cam Johnson… let it go guys

[rascal]

I wonder if Nets would be interested in swapping 8 OA + Keldon for early 20 pick and Cam Johnson

Brooklyn has 4 first round picks. Doubt they will be trading to add another one at 8 at the cost of Cam Johnson when they already have one at 6.

[KobesAchilles]

I don't know why it's hard to understand plain English.

They're on the same track they were two summers ago. They wanted to see what works around Wembanyama. They did. They wanted to build those pieces in. They are. This year, they wanted to add veterans to help the overall team, but obviously not everything is there yet.

Somehow you are forgetting that this was a team on track to make at worst the play-in in a psychotically hard Western Conference until Wembanyama got hurt and then went down.

In the midst of this, they managed to get a very good older player who raises the talent level and barely gave up anything to get him, in Fox. Which is what you people kept insisting they do -- but wanting give up the farm to do so. Somehow they didn't give up the farm.

Now, people like you want to give up the farm for expensive players who might only serve for a few years. Maybe they should, maybe they will.

But this childish screaming about what's going on is just so completely stupid, to be honest. Why I get a huge laugh at this board. Consistently the people with horrible ideas look back at their horrible ideas, acknowledge them, then get really, really mad when others point out how horrible their current ideas are. Maybe if you keep coming up with horrible ideas, change your approach?

That's neither here nor there. The point is -- this team IS where it needs to be at this point. You just get jumpy because other teams are further along the timeline. The FO is going to add more pieces, but aren't in a big fucking rush because 1) they're already a play-in team, 2) some teams in the WC are going to decay very soon, 3) they added a major piece in Fox who will be good for a number of years for nothing.

And, no, to throw fuel on the fire, they're not trading Keldon or Devin 'just because.' That's wild. They're not trading Castle for any imaginable reason. Just hold the fuck on. If you gotta pee, go pee. Don't dance around like a toddler.

So the gist of it, if I have this correct from this long post, is that we are in the same position as 2 years ago. We will be fighting for a play-in spot next year. And you’re ok with bad players with bad habits being on our team bc they are nba players. Gotcha

Castle I would only trade for a top 3 pick. That’s it. DV is a bad player and I would trade him just solely bc he is a losing player who has zero winning skills. He doesn’t play defense, he takes bad contested shots, and he doesnt block out for rebounds nor fight over screens, or pay attention to his man on defense, gives up way too many open 3s and is a black hole on offense. But other than that I have no issue with him. I don’t want to trade Sochan. I just want to offer him $15 million a year compared to others 20-25 million. And KJ I actually like off the bench.

Also nobody (and I mean nobody) was all about trading away everything for one player. That was just you and you’re weird fight against nobody.

[baseline bum]

I was super solid on Castle at 4. EXCEPT, I was willing to be teased by Shephard dropping simply due to our extreme need for more shooting, also being biased by the fact he was mocking at 3 (which fortunately held up) and that gave me some of the wanting what you can't have bias.

I was totally out on Dilly at 4, since I felt strongly he'd be there at 8 and he weighed 160 pounds or whatever.

I mainly liked Knecht and Edey at 8, but Buzelis would have been fine by me also. I was not entirely convinced Buzelis would be a good NBA shooter, or else I'd have been higher on him.

Yeah I was 100% on Castle at 4 with Sheppard my second choice. In the season I wanted Dillingham at 4 until he weighed in at 164 at the combine. Was thinking he would come in around 180 and could maybe be built up to Darius Garland size in a couple of years. But nope, Trae Young size.

[baseline bum]

So the gist of it, if I have this correct from this long post, is that we are in the same position as 2 years ago. We will be fighting for a play-in spot next year. And you’re ok with bad players with bad habits being on our team bc they are nba players. Gotcha

Castle I would only trade for a top 3 pick. That’s it. DV is a bad player and I would trade him just solely bc he is a losing player who has zero winning skills. He doesn’t play defense, he takes bad contested shots, and he doesnt block out for rebounds nor fight over screens, or pay attention to his man on defense, gives up way too many open 3s and is a black hole on offense. But other than that I have no issue with him. I don’t want to trade Sochan. I just want to offer him $15 million a year compared to others 20-25 million. And KJ I actually like off the bench.

Also nobody (and I mean nobody) was all about trading away everything for one player. That was just you and you’re weird fight against nobody.

I don't think I'd trade Castle for Harper and definitely wouldn't trade him for Edgecombe or Bailey. Agreed on wanting to just do addition by subtraction with Vassell. Another reason I'd love to draft Kon, to get an actual shooter in the backup SG/SF role who could work his way into the starting lineup in a year or two.

[spurraider21]

the more i think about it and watch, the less i think the spurs will be in on fleming. dont get me wrong, i still enjoy the player and the fit, and i would be thrilled with us taking him ~13

but he doesn't feel spurs-y. the spurs seem to really hone in on guys who, at the very least, can be connective pieces. looking at other forwards they've drafted in recent years, you have Ingram, Cissoko, Sochan, Samanic, and Keldon. keldon is the only guy in that group who never had a connective, passing element to his game.

he's also a poor ballhandler and despite his shooting% at the rim, he doesnt really have great touch if its not a lay-in/dunk. i think the spurs will shy away from him, even though i think an athletic 3/D big wing is just what the doctor ordered

[RC_Drunkford]

well if we're being honest, Sochan is only a connective piece in theory. The guy really has no real playmaking ability.

[spurraider21]

well if we're being honest, Sochan is only a connective piece in theory. The guy really has no real playmaking ability.
agreed but it was part of his draft profile. his passing was a heavy emphasis. just hasnt manifested in the NBA at all

[Mal]

Brooklyn has 4 first round picks. Doubt they will be trading to add another one at 8 at the cost of Cam Johnson when they already have one at 6.

They wont be adding, they would be swapping 20 OA for 8 OA.

At 8 Spurs should draft for need, that's why I would trade the pick for "need"

[scottspurs]

I keep watching the international prospects and an underrated prospect I like is Neoklis Avdalas. 6’8 guard averaging 8.8 PPG, 40.7% from 3. Similar to Noa Essengue in that he is solid all-around except he is a much better shooter. Just put his name in the draft so he was off my radar and I’ve only found a little bit of film so far but I like what I see. I think he might be a guy that flies up draft boards. I like him more than Saraf. Have to see more film before I can determine how good he is but shows some serious upside.

[scottspurs]

Also Sergio De Larrea one of the better shooting prospects decided to not declare for this draft. Probably a smart move considering how deep this draft class is but yeah you can take him off the board.

[rascal]

They wont be adding, they would be swapping 20 OA for 8 OA.

At 8 Spurs should draft for need, that's why I would trade the pick for "need"

Still adding 8 instead of 20. Not worth it to them at the cost of Cam Johnson.

[rascal]

agreed but it was part of his draft profile. his passing was a heavy emphasis. just hasnt manifested in the NBA at all

This forum was sold on Sochan by people like Mr. Body and others. He was voted the player that this forum wanted out of that draft.
I'm not surprised at all by his play after three years.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

I don't think I'd trade Castle for Harper and definitely wouldn't trade him for Edgecombe or Bailey. Agreed on wanting to just do addition by subtraction with Vassell. Another reason I'd love to draft Kon, to get an actual shooter in the backup SG/SF role who could work his way into the starting lineup in a year or two.

You got it about trading Castle. We will not trade him unless it's for Cooper. Nut nobody trades Cooper. That's why any idea of trading Castle is crazy.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

the more i think about it and watch, the less i think the spurs will be in on fleming. dont get me wrong, i still enjoy the player and the fit, and i would be thrilled with us taking him ~13

but he doesn't feel spurs-y. the spurs seem to really hone in on guys who, at the very least, can be connective pieces. looking at other forwards they've drafted in recent years, you have Ingram, Cissoko, Sochan, Samanic, and Keldon. keldon is the only guy in that group who never had a connective, passing element to his game.

he's also a poor ballhandler and despite his shooting% at the rim, he doesnt really have great touch if its not a lay-in/dunk. i think the spurs will shy away from him, even though i think an athletic 3/D big wing is just what the doctor ordered

I still hold high hope on Fleming.

Bowen wasn't a connector. But he was a vital part of our championship run.

Fleming 's proven shooting and post defense/blocks is too strong to pass.

He will be likely be better than Naz Reid because he is longer, quicker and more bouncy.

Kon and Fleming! Get Naz Reid or Yabusele. Sign another shooter. Championship in two years!

[Mr. Body]

This forum was sold on Sochan by people like Mr. Body and others. He was voted the player that this forum wanted out of that draft.
I'm not surprised at all by his play after three years.

Yeah, he was absolutely the right pick. There were votes for Mark Williams and Ousmane Dieng. Wiliams would have been good, but massive injury problems. Dieng is a complete bust. The only real miss was Jay Wiliiams and we had a glut of guards. I'm pleased to have you point out the good pick!

[exstatic]

I still hold high hope on Fleming.

Bowen wasn't a connector. But he was a vital part of our championship run.

Fleming 's proven shooting and post defense/blocks is too strong to pass.

He will be likely be better than Naz Reid because he is longer, quicker and more bouncy.

Kon and Fleming! Get Naz Reid or Yabusele. Sign another shooter. Championship in two years!

Different era of basketball. We also won a chip with a non-shooting, non-scoring PG, and that would be a non-starter as a prospect these days.

[KobesAchilles]

I don't think I'd trade Castle for Harper and definitely wouldn't trade him for Edgecombe or Bailey. Agreed on wanting to just do addition by subtraction with Vassell. Another reason I'd love to draft Kon, to get an actual shooter in the backup SG/SF role who could work his way into the starting lineup in a year or two.
I am probably the only one. And to be fair, I have zero knowledge of what Bailey is like as a worker and human being. But just from a talent perspective, I have him very high on my board. To me, he is 1B with Flagg. I mean I would draft Flagg over him for the Spurs just bc he already has a high basketball IQ and I think would develop very quickly as a pro even without great coaching.

But if the Spurs were a more buttoned up and serious organization then I would take Bailey. Assuming he has no character flaws and works his ass off in the gym. The problem with the Spurs is just an overall organizational one so I think it’s going to be harder to fix this franchise than most people on this board assume. Offensively, we are just poorly run. I mean we are in year 2 of Wemby and it still seemed like the franchise had no idea how to get him easy open looks or run sets to put him in positions of strength. The only player who could was ancient CP3 and I think that’s more on CP3 being good rather than the Spurs offense itself. But that’s a different story I guess so back to Bailey.

Ace Bailey to me is a unicorn of a player. He has a very high release point, a pure looking shot, and his size at 6’10 as well as his reach is just something even NBA players don’t see that often. He could be a KD type of player if he puts is all together. I’m really impressed with him. I’d trade him for Castle due to his size, his skillset, and his shot making. Plus he’s a good rebounder too. I think he’d be a perfect 3 for our team

[exstatic]

I am probably the only one. And to be fair, I have zero knowledge of what Bailey is like as a worker and human being. But just from a talent perspective, I have him very high on my board. To me, he is 1B with Flagg. I mean I would draft Flagg over him for the Spurs just bc he already has a high basketball IQ and I think would develop very quickly as a pro even without great coaching.

But if the Spurs were a more buttoned up and serious organization then I would take Bailey. Assuming he has no character flaws and works his ass off in the gym. The problem with the Spurs is just an overall organizational one so I think it’s going to be harder to fix this franchise than most people on this board assume. Offensively, we are just poorly run. I mean we are in year 2 of Wemby and it still seemed like the franchise had no idea how to get him easy open looks or run sets to put him in positions of strength. The only player who could was ancient CP3 and I think that’s more on CP3 being good rather than the Spurs offense itself. But that’s a different story I guess so back to Bailey.

Ace Bailey to me is a unicorn of a player. He has a very high release point, a pure looking shot, and his size at 6’10 as well as his reach is just something even NBA players don’t see that often. He could be a KD type of player if he puts is all together. I’m really impressed with him. I’d trade him for Castle due to his size, his skillset, and his shot making. Plus he’s a good rebounder too. I think he’d be a perfect 3 for our team

I DGAF where his release point is if his shooting splits are 46/34/69. Durant’s were 47/40/81. That’s a hell of a difference, and makes me think you’re seeing a Durant where there isn’t one because he’s tall. To me, hes a lot closer to being Emoni Bates, another guy where people squinted and saw Durant, than Kevin Durant.

[Mr. Body]

I don't know if you could put ten Ace Baileys together and get Kevin Durant. Maybe no fewer than eight.

[Dejounte]

the more i think about it and watch, the less i think the spurs will be in on fleming. dont get me wrong, i still enjoy the player and the fit, and i would be thrilled with us taking him ~13

but he doesn't feel spurs-y. the spurs seem to really hone in on guys who, at the very least, can be connective pieces. looking at other forwards they've drafted in recent years, you have Ingram, Cissoko, Sochan, Samanic, and Keldon. keldon is the only guy in that group who never had a connective, passing element to his game.

he's also a poor ballhandler and despite his shooting% at the rim, he doesnt really have great touch if its not a lay-in/dunk. i think the spurs will shy away from him, even though i think an athletic 3/D big wing is just what the doctor ordered

Yep, this has been exactly my line of thinking. I gave up what I think the Spurs should do, and started to think about how I can predict what they will do based on history. Following this approach is better for my mental health, tbh. We all follow this team for a reason, for reasons we probably don’t like to admit. If anything, it’s more fun to Sherlock Holmes this shit and figure what the Spurs are likely to do.

[Bruno]

Fleming has the perfect profile to be the kind of role player that would help Spurs but you had to wonder if he is good enough basketball player for the NBA. His end of the season was really bad. It's forgivable for a freshman. For a junior, it's way more problematic.

Noa Essengue is a player to keep an eye on until the end of the season in Germany. He has been more productive than expected with Ulm and he has even started to shoot well the ball. If he has a good end of the season, I wouldn't be surprised to see him being picked in the top10.

[Dejounte]

WF, wing-forward (2 and 3 and 4)
1. Cooper Flagg
2. Egor Demin

F, forward (3 and 4)
1. Ace Bailey
2. Carter Bryant
3. Noah Penda
4. Noa Essengue
5. Liam McNeeley

FC, forward-center (4 and 5)
1. Sorber
2. Queen
3. Wolf
4. CMB
5. Fleming
6. Yaxel Lendeborg
7. Asa Newell

Ace is the best of the group he’s in (although it’s a very low bar) in this class. He’s in the “forward” archetype, guys who aren’t likely to handle the ball a ton and create for others. I actually moved Cooper to the WF category since I realized he will be doing a lot more ballhandling than I first thought.

As far as predictability goes, I think the Spurs normally trade or sign guys in the F category. Egor Demin is the one likely to be available that fits the mold the Spurs normally go for with his versatility and passing. However, I think it’s equal chance that they go for a FC guy since that’s the team’s greatest need with Mamu and Bassey both out and Biyombo unlikely to return.

[Knoxxx]

Here is a redraft with Castle at #1:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/25187673-re-drafting-zach-edey-stephon-castle-and-2024-nba-rookie-class

Also of note for those of us that liked Edey more than Clingan, they have him rated a tad higher at 7 v 8.

Of course only time will tell since we acquired Fox, while remaining in dire need of help at C. Still fun to imagine what an Edey/Wemby duo would have wreaked on opposing teams.

[ginobilized]

WF, wing-forward (2 and 3 and 4)
1. Cooper Flagg
2. Egor Demin

F, forward (3 and 4)
1. Ace Bailey
2. Carter Bryant
3. Noah Penda
4. Noa Essengue
5. Liam McNeeley

FC, forward-center (4 and 5)
1. Sorber
2. Queen
3. Wolf
4. CMB
5. Fleming
6. Yaxel Lendeborg
7. Asa Newell

Ace is the best of the group he’s in (although it’s a very low bar) in this class. He’s in the “forward” archetype, guys who aren’t likely to handle the ball a ton and create for others. I actually moved Cooper to the WF category since I realized he will be doing a lot more ballhandling than I first thought.

As far as predictability goes, I think the Spurs normally trade or sign guys in the F category. Egor Demin is the one likely to be available that fits the mold the Spurs normally go for with his versatility and passing. However, I think it’s equal chance that they go for a FC guy since that’s the team’s greatest need with Mamu and Bassey both out and Biyombo unlikely to return.

I love that you have Sorber over Queen. I'm hoping we can get him with the ATL pick. Essengue has exceeded expectations and is still playing, and well, which may raise his stock.

[Mr. Body]

Here is a redraft with Castle at #1:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/25187673-re-drafting-zach-edey-stephon-castle-and-2024-nba-rookie-class

Also of note for those of us that liked Edey more than Clingan, they have him rated a tad higher at 7 v 8.

Of course only time will tell since we acquired Fox, while remaining in dire need of help at C. Still fun to imagine what an Edey/Wemby duo would have wreaked on opposing teams.

I'm stunned that they have Reed at #5. There's still a lot of faith in a guy I think was late lottery. As for us, I'd take Clingan over Edey. I like Edey, but Clingan's defensive impact is getting overlooked. He's going to be really good.

[baseline bum]

I am probably the only one. And to be fair, I have zero knowledge of what Bailey is like as a worker and human being. But just from a talent perspective, I have him very high on my board. To me, he is 1B with Flagg. I mean I would draft Flagg over him for the Spurs just bc he already has a high basketball IQ and I think would develop very quickly as a pro even without great coaching.

But if the Spurs were a more buttoned up and serious organization then I would take Bailey. Assuming he has no character flaws and works his ass off in the gym. The problem with the Spurs is just an overall organizational one so I think it’s going to be harder to fix this franchise than most people on this board assume. Offensively, we are just poorly run. I mean we are in year 2 of Wemby and it still seemed like the franchise had no idea how to get him easy open looks or run sets to put him in positions of strength. The only player who could was ancient CP3 and I think that’s more on CP3 being good rather than the Spurs offense itself. But that’s a different story I guess so back to Bailey.

Ace Bailey to me is a unicorn of a player. He has a very high release point, a pure looking shot, and his size at 6’10 as well as his reach is just something even NBA players don’t see that often. He could be a KD type of player if he puts is all together. I’m really impressed with him. I’d trade him for Castle due to his size, his skillset, and his shot making. Plus he’s a good rebounder too. I think he’d be a perfect 3 for our team

I don't see that at all. Durant might have been the most polished 19 year-old I have ever seen and there is no way I'd even begin to put Bailey anywhere near a jack of all trades like Flagg. IDK 34.6% from the three and 70% at the line don't make me think sharpshooter and he's Mr NoIntangibles. I can't draft a guy #3 because he's 6'10" with a good wingspan much less put him in the same ballpark as an absolute elite talent in Flagg. If the Spurs end up getting the #4 pick and Edgecombe has been taken I'm burning up the phone lines trying to trade the pick. I see lesser Risacher more than Durant in Bailey.

[spurraider21]

Fleming has the perfect profile to be the kind of role player that would help Spurs but you had to wonder if he is good enough basketball player for the NBA. His end of the season was really bad. It's forgivable for a freshman. For a junior, it's way more problematic.

Noa Essengue is a player to keep an eye on until the end of the season in Germany. He has been more productive than expected with Ulm and he has even started to shoot well the ball. If he has a good end of the season, I wouldn't be surprised to see him being picked in the top10.
Fleming is a junior but fairly young for one. will still be 20 at the time of the draft

[KobesAchilles]

I don't see that at all. Durant might have been the most polished 19 year-old I have ever seen and there is no way I'd even begin to put Bailey anywhere near a jack of all trades like Flagg. IDK 34.6% from the three and 70% at the line don't make me think sharpshooter and he's Mr NoIntangibles. I can't draft a guy #3 because he's 6'10" with a good wingspan much less put him in the same ballpark as an absolute elite talent in Flagg. If the Spurs end up getting the #4 pick and Edgecombe has been taken I'm burning up the phone lines trying to trade the pick. I see lesser Risacher more than Durant in Bailey.
i probably phrased that very poorly. I don’t mean he will be as good as KD is. I just meant that I can see him developing into a player type like KD. If i remember correctly, and this was a long time ago so I might be wrong, KD really struggled as a rookie in the league. He was on a horrible team and getting torched in defense and being pushed out of his spots on offense. I think he’d shot horribly that year too. KD is the better prospect. And he’s a genius. But I can see a world where Bailey puts it all together and becomes very very difficult to cover.

Now is he a black hole on offense with little playmaking ability. Yes. Have I been killing Vassell for being the same thing on offense. Yes I have been. The difference though is age. 6 years in and this is what Vassell is just going to be for his career. There’s very little (if any) upside to DVs game anymore. Bailey can be taught how to play defense. He has the tools to be a pretty good defender and definitely the foot speed, length, and height to become an above average one. He, like I said earlier, has the tools to be good offensively as well and I think quite an offensive player. I don’t think he will ever be a playmaker on offense.

For this current Spurs organization, they should not draft Bailey bc they aren’t a serious organization. Our player development is below average, our assistant coaches are below average, our coaching is below average, and we haven’t really show a propensity for winning in going on 7 years now. Bailey will fail if he isn’t nurtured correctly. Flagg is a genius. He will succeed anywhere. It’s just a matter of him going to a shitty organization like NO, SA, Was, Chi where he will be a B+ type of player, or a decent organization like Toronto and Portland. Or maybe he turns around the Hornets somehow? Idk but I see him being a good player regardless. Actually now that I think about it, if Bailey doesn’t end up in Portland or Toronto or Utah then he will be a huge disappointment. It sucks for 19 year olds that the only grown up organizations don’t pick them. OKC being the outlier.

I no longer know the point of my post :lol other than the Spurs need to shake up the organization. Get real coaching and then pick Bailey. None of it is happening anyway since we are getting Flagg so it’s a moot point and Pop is staying on President.

[RC_Drunkford]

I still hold high hope on Fleming.

Bowen wasn't a connector. But he was a vital part of our championship run.

Fleming 's proven shooting and post defense/blocks is too strong to pass.

He will be likely be better than Naz Reid because he is longer, quicker and more bouncy.

Kon and Fleming! Get Naz Reid or Yabusele. Sign another shooter. Championship in two years!

We can't even be sure that Fleming is an NBA player. Him becoming Naz Reid is basically best case scenario, i.e. his ceiling. He's a good option with the ATL pick, but no way am I picking him in the top 10.


I am probably the only one. And to be fair, I have zero knowledge of what Bailey is like as a worker and human being. But just from a talent perspective, I have him very high on my board. To me, he is 1B with Flagg. I mean I would draft Flagg over him for the Spurs just bc he already has a high basketball IQ and I think would develop very quickly as a pro even without great coaching.

But if the Spurs were a more buttoned up and serious organization then I would take Bailey. Assuming he has no character flaws and works his ass off in the gym. The problem with the Spurs is just an overall organizational one so I think it’s going to be harder to fix this franchise than most people on this board assume. Offensively, we are just poorly run. I mean we are in year 2 of Wemby and it still seemed like the franchise had no idea how to get him easy open looks or run sets to put him in positions of strength. The only player who could was ancient CP3 and I think that’s more on CP3 being good rather than the Spurs offense itself. But that’s a different story I guess so back to Bailey.

Ace Bailey to me is a unicorn of a player. He has a very high release point, a pure looking shot, and his size at 6’10 as well as his reach is just something even NBA players don’t see that often. He could be a KD type of player if he puts is all together. I’m really impressed with him. I’d trade him for Castle due to his size, his skillset, and his shot making. Plus he’s a good rebounder too. I think he’d be a perfect 3 for our team

Bailey is more like Ingram or MPJ, but nowhere close to KD. I got him 4th on my board. Definitely agree with the Spurs being a poorly run organization. We're basically the WCF Wizards.

[scott]

I still hold high hope on Fleming.

Bowen wasn't a connector. But he was a vital part of our championship run.

Fleming 's proven shooting and post defense/blocks is too strong to pass.

He will be likely be better than Naz Reid because he is longer, quicker and more bouncy.

Kon and Fleming! Get Naz Reid or Yabusele. Sign another shooter. Championship in two years!

I’d like for us to identify opposing GMs who think this way and just trade with them.

For example, if MIN thought Fleming would be better than Naz, and Fleming was sitting there at #14 and would trade us Naz for Fleming, I’d do that in a heartbeat.

Prey on opposing GMs who value mystery boxes over sure things.

[thOOdee]

Fleming has the perfect profile to be the kind of role player that would help Spurs but you had to wonder if he is good enough basketball player for the NBA. His end of the season was really bad. It's forgivable for a freshman. For a junior, it's way more problematic.

Noa Essengue is a player to keep an eye on until the end of the season in Germany. He has been more productive than expected with Ulm and he has even started to shoot well the ball. If he has a good end of the season, I wouldn't be surprised to see him being picked in the top10.

I'll definitely be celebrating if spurs are able to snatch essengue at 14. Seems like the perfect gamble. With fears, Kon, queen, and Malauch at #8, i'll be happy with.


If Sheppard was in this draft, who here thinks where he would land, and who would you take, kon vs. sheppard? (trying to get optimistic for the inevitable)

[Mr. Body]

I'll definitely be celebrating if spurs are able to snatch essengue at 14. Seems like the perfect gamble. With fears, Kon, queen, and Malauch at #8, i'll be happy with.


If Sheppard was in this draft, who here thinks where he would land, and who would you take, kon vs. sheppard? (trying to get optimistic for the inevitable)

I wouldn't draft Sheppard last year and I wouldn't draft Sheppard this year. Knueppel is like the player people think Reed Sheppard was supposed to be. Knueppel can actually dribble the basketball, shoot on the move, and not get bounced around like a tiny rubber ball.

[LeBowen]

I wouldn't draft Sheppard last year and I wouldn't draft Sheppard this year. Knueppel is like the player people think Reed Sheppard was supposed to be. Knueppel can actually dribble the basketball, shoot on the move, and not get bounced around like a tiny rubber ball.

Sheppard takes over the past year have proven that most people don't understand there are so many unathletic guards who are good shooters out there, but it doesn't really matter when they can't get their shot off in the NBA.
Sheppard's absolute ceiling is Steve Kerr. He can't even be Patty Mills because Patty could dribble the ball and beat his man.

The era of shooters who can't do anything else is over. They just get abused over and over again.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

RC- Drunkford, you're kidding me if you don't think Fleming an NBA player.

He can shoot 3s at 4 to 5 feet behind 3-point line with an hand on his face.

This kind of shooting will translate into NBA. Very hard to close out.

With hard close-out, he can drive to the basket and dunk. very efficient.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

I’d like for us to identify opposing GMs who think this way and just trade with them.

For example, if MIN thought Fleming would be better than Naz, and Fleming was sitting there at #14 and would trade us Naz for Fleming, I’d do that in a heartbeat.

Prey on opposing GMs who value mystery boxes over sure things.

Of course Minnesota will not trade Naz for Fleming because Fleming will need to years to reach Naz's level of play.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Essengue is exciting too. So tall but moves like a guard. Will slow down many 2s and 3s.

But you never know if he can put more muscle on and defend 4s.

His 3-point shot is a question mark, just like most prospects except Kon, Fleming, etc.

[benefactor]

I'll definitely be celebrating if spurs are able to snatch essengue at 14. Seems like the perfect gamble. With fears, Kon, queen, and Malauch at #8, i'll be happy with.


If Sheppard was in this draft, who here thinks where he would land, and who would you take, kon vs. sheppard? (trying to get optimistic for the inevitable)
No one is taking Sheppard over Kon or even entertaining the idea. You give Kon Flaggs physical tools and he probably goes #1 ahead of him.

[RC_Drunkford]

RC- Drunkford, you're kidding me if you don't think Fleming an NBA player.

He can shoot 3s at 4 to 5 feet behind 3-point line with an hand on his face.

This kind of shooting will translate into NBA. Very hard to close out.

With hard close-out, he can drive to the basket and dunk. very efficient.

In theory he is. Practically the jury is out and we don't know. He has all the tools, but you are talking about the guy like he's been in the league for 10 years.

[rascal]

I'm all in at Bailey with the 3rd pick if the spurs get the third pick. Listed at 6'10 and can knock down shots and is a strong finisher at the rim is just what the Spurs need.

Don't let them talk you away from Bailey spurraider21. A lot of these loud mouths in here don't have the best track record in who they like as prospects.

Even if he ends up like Ingram that would be excellent for the Spurs. I don't expect him to be as good as KD but he is similar in height(listed only 1 inch shorter) and I like his shooting form and perimeter shot upside ability and he can finish at the rim.
These draft picks are made with who has more upside potential and Bailey has far more than a player like Kon Kneuppel who most in here are high on.

[rascal]

No one is taking Sheppard over Kon or even entertaining the idea. You give Kon Flaggs physical tools and he probably goes #1 ahead of him.

Similar Games, both are primarily catch and shoot offensive players.
I've seen tape on this guy and most of his baskets are catch and shoot shots witht the occasional hesitation drive to the basket and step back shot.


Kon has more size so he won't struggle to get off shots as much as Sheppard but will struggle with his lack of vertical lift in the NBA making him more of a primarily a catch and shoot perimeter threat.
There is value in those players but I don't see him as a strong option for a starter in the NBA and for sure not at SF where the spurs need to upgrade.

[Dejounte]

I'm all in at Bailey with the 3rd pick if the spurs get the third pick. Listed at 6'10 and can knock down shots and is a strong finisher at the rim is just what the Spurs need.Don't let them talk you away from Bailey spurraider21. A lot of these loud mouths in here don't have the best track record in who they like as prospects. Even if he ends up like Ingram that would be excellent for the Spurs. I don't expect him to be as good as KD but he is similar in height(listed only 1 inch shorter) and I like his shooting form and perimeter shot upside ability and he can finish at the rim. These draft picks are made with who has more upside potential and Bailey has far more than a player like Kon Kneuppel who most in here are high on.I have a way better track record than you, that’s for sure. When have you made a call that wasn’t consensus or obvious? Never. You’re just saying what everyone else is saying, tbh. If someone wanted a better, more fleshed out and non-racist take, they can just read an ESPN article on the 2025 draft. You’re not very original.

[rascal]

Yeah, he was absolutely the right pick. There were votes for Mark Williams and Ousmane Dieng. Wiliams would have been good, but massive injury problems. Dieng is a complete bust. The only real miss was Jay Wiliiams and we had a glut of guards. I'm pleased to have you point out the good pick!

Jalen Williams was the right pick, even Jalen Duren would have been better.

So no he wasn't absolutely the right pick.

[Vienna]

RC- Drunkford, you're kidding me if you don't think Fleming an NBA player.

He can shoot 3s at 4 to 5 feet behind 3-point line with an hand on his face.

This kind of shooting will translate into NBA. Very hard to close out.

With hard close-out, he can drive to the basket and dunk. very efficient.

so, if he is that great at all those things, why was he only the low usage #3 option on the #84 ranked team in the country?

and why don‘t we just offer Malik Williams a big fat contract, before an other team finds out he shoots 40% on 3s and grabs 10 rebounds.

who cares if that‘s numbers from the g league, he hits them there, he hits them anywhere, right?

oh, ………he played in the NBA for the Raptors………..7 games. Guess what, he didn’t deliver the same numbers. noone can figure out why.

[Vienna]

RC- Drunkford, you're kidding me if you don't think Fleming an NBA player.

He can shoot 3s at 4 to 5 feet behind 3-point line with an hand on his face.

This kind of shooting will translate into NBA. Very hard to close out.

With hard close-out, he can drive to the basket and dunk. very efficient.

so, if he is that great at all those things, why was he only the low usage #3 option on the #84 ranked team in the country?

and why don‘t we just offer Malik Williams a big fat contract, before an other team finds out he shoots 40% on 3s and grabs 10 rebounds.

who cares if that‘s numbers from the g league, he hits them there, he hits them anywhere, right?

oh, ………he played in the NBA for the Raptors………..7 games. Guess what, he didn’t deliver the same numbers. noone can figure out why.

[benefactor]

Similar Games, both are primarily catch and shoot offensive players.
I've seen tape on this guy and most of his baskets are catch and shoot shots witht the occasional hesitation drive to the basket and step back shot.


Kon has more size so he won't struggle to get off shots as much as Sheppard but will struggle with his lack of vertical lift in the NBA making him more of a primarily a catch and shoot perimeter threat.
There is value in those players but I don't see him as a strong option for a starter in the NBA and for sure not at SF where the spurs need to upgrade.
They can both shoot and they are both white. But we all know that's all you ever see anyway

[rascal]

They can both shoot and they are both white. But we all know that's all you ever see anyway

That's not all I see. I called McNeeley more athletic than both of them. Sheppard and Kon are more athletically challeneged than McNeeley. All are white

Sheppard and Kon will have similar games as primarily catch and shoot shooters in the NBA. Their lack of athleticism will limit their upside.

The black player is the far superior player in the NBA. That's fact. Call it racist if you want, fact is fact. Of course there are a handful of exceptions.

75% of the league is black and most of your league wide all stars are black players. Facts are what they are.

[benefactor]

The black player is the far superior player in the NBA. That's fact.
Ok we know. You'll keep telling us.

[benefactor]

I bet it is eating you up inside that the best player in the league is white and unathletic

[Manu&Duncan fan]

so, if he is that great at all those things, why was he only the low usage #3 option on the #84 ranked team in the country?

and why don‘t we just offer Malik Williams a big fat contract, before an other team finds out he shoots 40% on 3s and grabs 10 rebounds.

who cares if that‘s numbers from the g league, he hits them there, he hits them anywhere, right?

oh, ………he played in the NBA for the Raptors………..7 games. Guess what, he didn’t deliver the same numbers. noone can figure out why.


You know Malik Williams only has 1.7 attempts for 3-points?

Fleming shoots 4.5.

When you shoot so many and make so many, it's no longer a fluke.

[mo7888]

I bet it is eating you up inside that the best player in the league is white and unathletic

An arguably 2 of the top 3....

[ace3g]

14 days till the draft lottery.

[rascal]

An arguably 2 of the top 3....

Then a rapid decline in white vs black top players

[mo7888]

Then a rapid decline in white vs black top players

Hurts don't it....lol

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Rasheer Fleming is one of 6 players in the past 15 years who are 6'-9"+ tall and made 60+ 3-pointers with 38%+ accuracy.

The rest of the list here:

Kevin Durant,, Jabari Smith, Keegan Murray, Lauri Markkanen, Tyler Lydon

Of the above 5 players, Tyler Lyon is the only one who was a bust. He injured his knee in his rookie reason and never the same person after.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Of the above 6 players, Fleming is the only one who had more than 40 blocks. Actually 52 blocks. Lauri second at 35 blocks.

[Dejounte]

An arguably 2 of the top 3....
Add Flagg in there in a few years….

Oh, Victor Wembanyama is half white I guess that must mean he’s genetically weak

[rascal]

Hurts don't it....lol

What hurts?

If you're trying to make the claim white players are better than black players in the nba you lose.

[Mr. Body]

Rascal is amusing how he gets obsessed with a player. Nobody in the world would pick McNeeley over Knueppel at this point, yet here we are.

[mo7888]

What hurts?

If you're trying to make the claim white players are better than black players in the nba you lose.

Of course not... I don't care about race like you do... I just find your racism amusing..

[mudyez]

I don't care about black and white, but while playing 2K it help me to have some mix of them, as I can recognise them more easily. This said, gimme some Knueppel, McNeely and Wolf. :elephant

[Vienna]

You know Malik Williams only has 1.7 attempts for 3-points?

Fleming shoots 4.5.

When you shoot so many and make so many, it's no longer a fluke.

so you can't even do a little internet research? Malik Willimans had 5.5 3PA last season, made 2.2. he is the only player in the league to get 10+ rebounds who shot 39+% on 3s.

he is pretty much the same player Fleming is, even taller.

yet he is still in the g league. why? because he isn't skilled enough for the NBA and g league numbers are still g league numbers.

Fleming produced his numbers in pretty low level competition and he failed big time when it counted. same story last season. a junior with more than 100 college games under his belt wasn't even able to dominate NIT competition. yet you compare his numbers to Durant's and call him a sure fire lottery pick........jesus.

the point isn't that Fleming can't become a useful NBA player. maybe he will. the point is, you don't use a lottery pick on a player like him. he is a 2nd rounder you might take a flyer on.

[Mr. Body]

https://youtu.be/9ZAKA27Nv9U?si=rIYy5S6dyfBbzyJs

Parker has some of the best break downs out there.

My big lean is to trade up in the draft and try to poach a player like this. The fit may not be the best, but I think it will be.

[BacktoBasics]

https://youtu.be/9ZAKA27Nv9U?si=rIYy5S6dyfBbzyJs

Parker has some of the best break downs out there.

My big lean is to trade up in the draft and try to poach a player like this. The fit may not be the best, but I think it will be.

Fit seems fine. A replacement for Vassell.

[mo7888]

The first couple pages of this thread are some wild takes...

[mo7888]

We jave to hopevwe strike gold with the Atlanta pick. I don't see us tanking next year.

This is my 'bad take' contribution to this thread early on..lol

[Mr. Body]

This is my 'bad take' contribution to this thread early on..lol

You were right, just that Wemby got hurt.

[Ditty]

If the Spurs were to get pick 3, I could see them choosing Edgecombe over Bailey.

[Mr. Body]

If the Spurs were to get pick 3, I could see them choosing Edgecombe over Bailey.

For me without a second thought.

[scott]

The first couple pages of this thread are some wild takes...

I’m actually impressed at how much the pre/early season board has held together. Hugo Gonzalez is the biggest faller, but for the most part the names in the lottery have pretty much stayed the same.

[Mr. Body]

I’m actually impressed at how much the pre/early season board has held together. Hugo Gonzalez is the biggest faller, but for the most part the names in the lottery have pretty much stayed the same.

Jahlil Bathea caught my eye, but yes definitely. Somehow that one list didn't realize Johnny Furphy was drafted last year.

[Arguendo]

Of course Minnesota will not trade Naz for Fleming because Fleming will need to years to reach Naz's level of play.
Gonna be interesting to see what they do.
Currently 9 guys under contract if Randle opts in, Naz declines option, and they cut Garza/Miller/Minott with about $34M under the 2nd Apron, but only $21M under the 1st to retain Naz and add 5 other guys.
NWA is a FA and they don't have a starting PG, with Conley at best a 1/2 time player now, entering his 38y/o season.
I don't think the Spurs are a good trade partner as we don't have a PG to offer them and they'd want to take as little salary back as possible, but the 14th pick for a Sign&Trade isn't bad return.

[exstatic]

Gonna be interesting to see what they do.
Currently 9 guys under contract if Randle opts in, Naz declines option, and they cut Garza/Miller/Minott with about $34M under the 2nd Apron, but only $21M under the 1st to retain Naz and add 5 other guys.
NWA is a FA and they don't have a starting PG, with Conley at best a 1/2 time player now, entering his 38y/o season.
I don't think the Spurs are a good trade partner as we don't have a PG to offer them and they'd want to take as little salary back as possible, but the 14th pick for a Sign&Trade isn't bad return.

We could do a S&T with McLaughlin. He’d be cheap, and he’s spent time in Minny for parts/all of 5 seasons. They could use pick 14 on BPGA, and develop one. Barnes could be the salary ballast.

[CGD]

Could someone better at this than me lay out some of the key upcoming dates— lottery sorting, combine, when workouts start, international player declarations, last day to withdraw from draft?

I believe someone did that last year and I found it super useful.

[LeBowen]

Could someone better at this than me lay out some of the key upcoming dates— lottery sorting, combine, when workouts start, international player declarations, last day to withdraw from draft?

I believe someone did that last year and I found it super useful.

https://www.nba.com/news/nba-draft-faq



April 26: NBA Early Entry Deadline (11:59 p.m. ET)
May 9-11: NBA G League Combine
May 11-18: NBA Draft Combine
May 12: NBA Draft Lottery presented by State Farm
June 15: NBA Early Entry Withdrawal Deadline (5 p.m. ET)
June 25: 2025 NBA Draft First Round
June 26: 2025 NBA Draft Second Round

[SpursBills]

Is VJ a better or worse prospect than Cason Wallace coming out?

Cason:
Better defender - sounds blasphemous, but major concerns with VJ size and frame guarding up, especially when strength and wingspan are both underrated aspects of predicting a good defender
Better handle - VJ has a looong way to go as a ballhandler
More of a point guard (?)
Moves better east-west

VJ:
More athletic - vertical athleticism, north-south; has some issues staying with guys going side to side
Better at generating defensive events

Similar shooting profiles, negligible difference in feel

Overall I feel like Cason might have a slightly higher median outcome and will probably be the better defender at the next level, but VJ's offensive potential is way higher if his handle gets significant development to allow him to leverage his athleticism

[Dejounte]

Is VJ a better or worse prospect than Cason Wallace coming out?

Cason:
Better defender - sounds blasphemous, but major concerns with VJ size and frame guarding up, especially when strength and wingspan are both underrated aspects of predicting a good defender
Better handle - VJ has a looong way to go as a ballhandler
More of a point guard (?)
Moves better east-west

VJ:
More athletic - vertical athleticism, north-south; has some issues staying with guys going side to side
Better at generating defensive events

Similar shooting profiles, negligible difference in feel

Overall I feel like Cason might have a slightly higher median outcome and will probably be the better defender at the next level, but VJ's offensive potential is way higher if his handle gets significant development to allow him to leverage his athleticism

It’s hard for anyone not to have recency bias but to me, VJ looks like he has the “it” factor while Cason obviously does not.

[Dejounte]

VJ worst case: Lonnie Walker
middle case: smaller Kuminga
Current best case: smaller Amen Thompson

his swing skill is his feel for the game

[CGD]

https://www.nba.com/news/nba-draft-faq



April 26: NBA Early Entry Deadline (11:59 p.m. ET)
May 9-11: NBA G League Combine
May 11-18: NBA Draft Combine
May 12: NBA Draft Lottery presented by State Farm
June 15: NBA Early Entry Withdrawal Deadline (5 p.m. ET)
June 25: 2025 NBA Draft First Round
June 26: 2025 NBA Draft Second Round


Awesome

[CGD]

VJ worst case: Lonnie Walker
middle case: smaller Kuminga
Current best case: smaller Amen Thompson

his swing skill is his feel for the game

Always skeptical of players dinged on “feel for the game” no matter how they want to dress it up (“swing skill”)

[Dejounte]

Always skeptical of players dinged on “feel for the game” no matter how they want to dress it up (“swing skill”)
Uhh you don’t think that’s a thing or what? You think everybody has feel for the game? Come on man, there are clearly NBA players who don’t know what the hell they’re doing lmao

[Dejounte]

Swing skill isn’t “dressing up” the feel-for-the-game term. Swing skill by definition means the skill that’s going to make or break the player’s path to success. It has nothing to do with feel. Smh

[Mr. Body]

Is VJ a better or worse prospect than Cason Wallace coming out?

Cason:
Better defender - sounds blasphemous, but major concerns with VJ size and frame guarding up, especially when strength and wingspan are both underrated aspects of predicting a good defender
Better handle - VJ has a looong way to go as a ballhandler
More of a point guard (?)
Moves better east-west

VJ:
More athletic - vertical athleticism, north-south; has some issues staying with guys going side to side
Better at generating defensive events

Similar shooting profiles, negligible difference in feel

Overall I feel like Cason might have a slightly higher median outcome and will probably be the better defender at the next level, but VJ's offensive potential is way higher if his handle gets significant development to allow him to leverage his athleticism

This seems pretty fair to me. I confess I didn't watch Wallace much in college. I do think he's a better all-around defender. It makes sense to call him a higher median guy. Great platoon player. I'm not quite sure you want him as a full-time starter, but he serves that role for OKC as they roll out a lot of perimeter defense. He does seem like more of a point guard and VJ maybe on the outside a 2/3 swing.

VJ -- The vid I posted above is right, I think, that his role isn't entirely set at this point, but he is at least malleable. Meaning that if he doesn't hit a certain role, it's not the end for him.

- He's more of a disruptive team defender than a man-to-man defender at this point.
- Slight of frame and doesn't attack the rim against defenders well.
- Handles need vast improvement.

Possibilities/Questions
- His shooting has been better than advertised, actually pretty good.
- His playmaking is pretty good, but not exceptional. Willing passer just not excellent.

- Baseline I think he can be a disruptive defender with good offense. His motor is great.
- If he learns a handle and how to attack defenses, he's so quick he's potentially nasty.
- If he can bulk up a tad and get better skilled as a man defender, he could be more of a threat there, too.

Wallace I think is topping out as a great platoon player on a top team. I'm not sure he's gonna be Gary Payton at this point or anything.

Edgecombe, if he works out... it's hard to say the comps. I sort of see a Drexler type with a bit different athleticism plus a ball hawking, weak-side blocking defense. If he really hits, as a second or third option (or fourth?) he's a monster or at least a massive headache.

As a note, he blows Wallace away in advanced stats in college, take it as you will.

EDIT: Well, I overstated the advanced stats. They're pretty similar except for on offense, where Edgecombe is much better. https://tankathon.com/players/compare?players=v-j-edgecombe--cason-wallace

[SpursBills]

This seems pretty fair to me. I confess I didn't watch Wallace much in college. I do think he's a better all-around defender. It makes sense to call him a higher median guy. Great platoon player. I'm not quite sure you want him as a full-time starter, but he serves that role for OKC as they roll out a lot of perimeter defense. He does seem like more of a point guard and VJ maybe on the outside a 2/3 swing.

VJ -- The vid I posted above is right, I think, that his role isn't entirely set at this point, but he is at least malleable. Meaning that if he doesn't hit a certain role, it's not the end for him.

- He's more of a disruptive team defender than a man-to-man defender at this point.
- Slight of frame and doesn't attack the rim against defenders well.
- Handles need vast improvement.

Possibilities/Questions
- His shooting has been better than advertised, actually pretty good.
- His playmaking is pretty good, but not exceptional. Willing passer just not excellent.

- Baseline I think he can be a disruptive defender with good offense. His motor is great.
- If he learns a handle and how to attack defenses, he's so quick he's potentially nasty.
- If he can bulk up a tad and get better skilled as a man defender, he could be more of a threat there, too.

Wallace I think is topping out as a great platoon player on a top team. I'm not sure he's gonna be Gary Payton at this point or anything.

Edgecombe, if he works out... it's hard to say the comps. I sort of see a Drexler type with a bit different athleticism plus a ball hawking, weak-side blocking defense. If he really hits, as a second or third option (or fourth?) he's a monster or at least a massive headache.

As a note, he blows Wallace away in advanced stats in college, take it as you will.

EDIT: Well, I overstated the advanced stats. They're pretty similar except for on offense, where Edgecombe is much better. https://tankathon.com/players/compare?players=v-j-edgecombe--cason-wallace

One of the many unfortunate things about Zhaire Smith's near fatal allergic reaction was that we never got to see how his career turned out - he is probably one of the more similar prospects to VJ that I can think of

[CGD]

Swing skill isn’t “dressing up” the feel-for-the-game term. Swing skill by definition means the skill that’s going to make or break the player’s path to success. It has nothing to do with feel. Smh

Yes, and we’ve drafted plenty who have earned millions, but that people still shit on using language like “low bbiq…”

At 14 fine (maybe even 8-9), but if we luck into the top 4 I really dont want to be discussing a play whose “swing skill” is “feel for the game.” Thats just a shitty ding for an early lotto player, which explains why many of us here are low on Bailey despite, on paper, processing all the needed tools.

[Dejounte]

Yes, and we’ve drafted plenty who have earned millions, but that people still shit on using language like “low bbiq…”

At 14 fine (maybe even 8-9), but if we luck into the top 4 I really dont want to be discussing a play whose “swing skill” is “feel for the game.” Thats just a shitty ding for an early lotto player, which explains why many of us here are low on Bailey despite, on paper, processing all the needed tools.

Ah so you’d deny that there have been past early lotto players who wasn’t as successful as their peers because they had no feel? That’s not reality at all and if you want to keep your head in the sand about the true outcomes for these types of players, that’s on you. If the Spurs get into the top 4, great. That’s not to say they can’t make the wrong choice because all the players mocked in the top 4 means they’re guaranteed a player who will pass all the checkmarks. This is how you end up with busts.

also, saying that he has all the tools on paper is another lie. He meets a few preferred tools that most people would like to see in a prospect, but that’s it. He’s inefficient on paper. That’s not even a lie.

[CGD]

Ah so you’d deny that there have been past early lotto players who wasn’t as successful as their peers because they had no feel? That’s not reality at all and if you want to keep your head in the sand about the true outcomes for these types of players, that’s on you. If the Spurs get into the top 4, great. That’s not to say they can’t make the wrong choice because all the players mocked in the top 4 means they’re guaranteed a player who will pass all the checkmarks. This is how you end up with busts.

also, saying that he has all the tools on paper is another lie. He meets a few preferred tools that most people would like to see in a prospect, but that’s it. He’s inefficient on paper. That’s not even a lie.

Im mean yeah. I think players get drafted in the Top 5 all the time whose “swing skill” is “feel” (lol i just think that branding is hilarious)— Bagley, Thabiet, Wiseman, Ayton, Wiggins, Bennet, Kuminga, Bamba, Knox….

I pray it’s not us if picking in the Top 5.

[objective]

I really don't enjoy the trend of these old ass freshmen whose parents held them back for years so they could beat up on children or they were just unusually unintelligent and needed the extra years to not slobber on themselves while tying their shoes.

Fleming the junior: 20.9

Meanwhile

Queen: 20.5
Knueppel 19.9
Edgecombe 19.9
McNeely 19.7
Newell 19.7
Bryant 19.6

Even last year it was the same crap. As much as I liked Sheppard I didn't like that he was a 20 year old on draft night

[bluebellmaniac]

Swing skill, feel for the game...

I feel an important part of those overlap in the Venn Diagram for BBIQ. I'm big on BBIQ and think that's a key differentiator for those who excel and thrive vs those who don't.

[Dejounte]

I really don't enjoy the trend of these old ass freshmen whose parents held them back for years so they could beat up on children or they were just unusually unintelligent and needed the extra years to not slobber on themselves while tying their shoes.

Fleming the junior: 20.9

Meanwhile

Queen: 20.5
Knueppel 19.9
Edgecombe 19.9
McNeely 19.7
Newell 19.7
Bryant 19.6

Even last year it was the same crap. As much as I liked Sheppard I didn't like that he was a 20 year old on draft night

The average age of freshmen entering the NBA draft is 19.5 years. This is much ado about nothing.

Cooper is the youngest of this draft class at 18.51 years, and his case is rare. In other years the youngest is around 18.7+. And this is comparing them to the youngest of the class. Point of the matter is that most freshmen do enter the draft at 19.5. Children? They’re only a year older than these guys. Big whoop.

[Robz4000]

The more I look at this draft the more I want the Spurs to trade down/out for future draft capital unless they land Flagg tbh. Use some of their second rounders stashed to move up into the late first to take a shot at someone who falls.

[Uriel]

Knueppel feels like this year’s Sheppard to me — a guy with underwhelming physical tools, but is loved by statistical models. He currently ranks #2 in Pelton’s models, just behind Flagg.

[onechance87]

The more I look at this draft the more I want the Spurs to trade down/out for future draft capital unless they land Flagg tbh. Use some of their second rounders stashed to move up into the late first to take a shot at someone who falls.

Yup....We need new young blood on this team.Wesley,branham,bassey even vassell and sochan aint doing shit.

[thOOdee]

The more I look at this draft the more I want the Spurs to trade down/out for future draft capital unless they land Flagg tbh. Use some of their second rounders stashed to move up into the late first to take a shot at someone who falls.

yuh, I'm kinda on board with this. The more you look at it, if your team is not in the top 4, it would seem to be more of a crapshoot. Also wouldn't mind spurs trading the 8th pick for say like a pick in the teens and maybe another future 1st rounder.

[Chinook]

Knueppel feels like this year’s Sheppard to me — a guy with underwhelming physical tools, but is loved by statistical models. He currently ranks #2 in Pelton’s models, just behind Flagg.

His size is going to really matter. If he's wing sized, he really just has to play smart and tough defense. If he's a guard only, it'd be harder to fit him on the floor with bad defensive tools.

[couchman]

I'm not sold on Knueppel's defense translating. His feet look very slow to me and he's groundbound to boot.
On offense he has the potential to be a really good role player as a shooter and passer.
We saw playmaking skills at Duke, however at the NBA level I think his athletic limitations will keep him from being real playmaker.

[thOOdee]

Trade suggestion to hawks. Assuming teams stand exactly as shown in tankathon and assuming no top tier player falls: trade the 8th pick to the hawks for their 13th pick, and trade the 38th pick to the hawks for their 22nd 1st round pick. And pull the trigger on the best 3 combination of available out of essengue, mcneely, sorber, demin, wolf, or fleming.

[spurraider21]

I'm not sold on Knueppel's defense translating. His feet look very slow to me and he's groundbound to boot.
On offense he has the potential to be a really good role player as a shooter and passer.
We saw playmaking skills at Duke, however at the NBA level I think his athletic limitations will keep him from being real playmaker.
he often gets blown by then uses his physicality to affect the driver... that might fly in college but in the NBA its going to be a lot of fouls

[rascal]

Bump to get back up to page one

[HankChinaski]

I like Derik Queen as a possibility for the spurs. I don't know about the fit but I like what he does with the ball. Older freshman though

[Knoxxx]

I like Derik Queen as a possibility for the spurs. I don't know about the fit but I like what he does with the ball. Older freshman though

This guy has Fears at 4 (as a surprise), Queen to Spurs at 8, Bryant at 14 (vs Fleming in the discussion).


https://youtu.be/WWDv8h100n0

He raises good points about Queen/Wemby vs OKC Hartenstein/Chet. Excited about a lineup of Fox-Castle-Bryant-Queen-Wemby

Also when you get to 8, we have lots of good options still that do include Knueppel, Jaku. I'm getting excited about this draft!!!

Edit: He also pointed out that Maluach was an insane +53 per 100 possessions with Duke. While I am not hating Maluach as much, makes sense to prefer Queen for us who can play PF/C, unlike Maluach. Thus avoiding the "too high a pick for a backup C" that plagued our Edey discussions prior to last draft.

[Knoxxx]

The more I look at this draft the more I want the Spurs to trade down/out for future draft capital unless they land Flagg tbh. Use some of their second rounders stashed to move up into the late first to take a shot at someone who falls.

What for some 2035 picks, SHADDUP!!!!?????!!!!!!!

(trading picks for a veteran is always a legit option but we need to also be acquiring young prospects and churning those roster spots some)

Seriously though, your plan seems spotty because how do we know where any future picks will even land? I think you are underestimating this draft class, which last year everyone said was BEST EVER and all that...

[LeBowen]

When you're mentioning fits, forget about Wemby, it's about Fox/Castle.
Wemby can easily play with another big, even if he isn't a shooter, but if we're to start Fox and Castle, we can't really afford to have a non-shooter starting at PF.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/DraftExpress/status/1918032678617793025

[ace3g]

https://x.com/DraftExpress/status/1917752003482247243

[ace3g]

https://x.com/DraftExpress/status/1917613449737339017

[CGD]

https://x.com/DraftExpress/status/1918032678617793025

I see this guy as the perfect Devin replacement. Allows them to reset that contract/role if they look to move Dev this summer.

[CGD]

Vecine has his latest mock today: https://archive.ph/v0DAK

[vy65]

Vecine has his latest mock today: https://archive.ph/v0DAK

He has us at #9?

[exstatic]

He has us at #9?

He runs a sim lottery, and had Portland jumping into the top 4, bumping us backwards.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/NBADraftWass/status/1917988270434025670

[CGD]

He has us at #9?

Yeah, he did a simulation. Interesting nugget that Carter Bryant is generating lotto buzz. On paper seems like a good fit especially at 9. Haven’t watched his game yet.

[vy65]

He runs a sim lottery, and had Portland jumping into the top 4, bumping us backwards.

Ah thanks, I missed that

[Mr. Body]

Vecine has his latest mock today: https://archive.ph/v0DAK

I think Carter Bryant and Noa Essengue would be close to my disaster scenario for this draft.

[rankingtear]

Vecenie mocks lean toward need and fit, more of a film guy. I only trust the BSPN one with Givony and Woo there for players actual value. But Carter Bryant is the guy most resembles Keegan Murray and him and possibly Essengue are to only real combo forward in our range.

[Mr. Body]

Vecenie mocks lean toward need and fit, more of a film guy. I only trust the BSPN one with Givony and Woo there for players actual value. But Carter Bryant is the guy most resembles Keegan Murray and him and possibly Essengue are to only real combo forward in our range.

Keegan Murray actually played in college, a lot. Carter Bryant made occasional appearances.

Jonathan Givony, I definitely don't trust him. He constantly seems to be pushing certain guys or holding back on others, and not because of what teams are saying. He was better before he joined ESPN -- oh, wait, he's ESPN. That's why he does it.

I mean, upstairs he's talking about guys not missing in open shoot-arounds. Who gives a fuck? And he's the one who tried dropping that horseshit about watching Stephon Castle shoot for a long time and never making two in a row. Oh, and he's been caught doctoring his mocks after the fact.

Anyway, yeah, taking Carter with the 8 would be bad enough. Following it up with another long project would be terrible. Having them play the same position would be icing on the shit cake.

[Ice009]

I remember reading that bit about Castle not making two in a row. Was that before the draft?