2025 NBA Draft

[Mal]

Michigan senior center Goldin with 29 pts of 9-12 shooting on a losing effort. 7’1 250 big but 24 yrs old at the day of the draft. Very good post player, can hit the 3. Can be a good 2nd round backup big.

The same dude from one of Central Florida or other Florida deep run in recent years ?

[Uriel]

The only situation in which I can accept not getting Maluach would be if one of our picks landed in the top 4 and he weren’t available by the time of our second pick.

But if we end up picking right around our expected range (9/10) and he’s still on the board, I absolutely believe he should be the pick.

[John B]

The same dude from one of Central Florida or other Florida deep run in recent years ?

The same. Florida Atlantic led the Owls to the 2023 NCAA Final Four. Real good presence in the paint, really good FT, big body. Should be a good 2nd round pickup for backup big. I think the age is good since they would need someone who can contribute now.

[TD 21]

I've been on to Richardson as a Spurs target, but (if he actually enters the draft) it probably only happens if Vassell is traded (given that his value is probably at its nadir, unlikely) or they maintain both 1sts.

He'd likely be a near perfect (yeah, it'd be ideal if he were slightly bigger) third guard behind Fox and Castle.

[pad300]

He’s nowhere near as stiff as you claim tbh

Ok, name the NBA prospects he's defended on the perimeter this season.

[exstatic]

I feel very strongly we should come away with Khaman Maluach in this draft. First of all, backup C is a pressing need for us. Second, Maluach is the best center prospect in this draft and is right around our draft range.

It’s a match made in heaven.

This is like the clamor for Edey last year. I do not want to use a lottery pick on a player destined to only be a backup. We can get one in trade, or later in the draft.

[scott]

This is like the clamor for Edey last year. I do not want to use a lottery pick on a player destined to only be a backup. We can get one in trade, or later in the draft.

I agree with the caveat that if it’s the ATL pick (let’s imagine it conveys at 12) and he’s clearly the BPA, then I’d go ahead and take him even if projected as a backup.

[rascal]

This is like the clamor for Edey last year. I do not want to use a lottery pick on a player destined to only be a backup. We can get one in trade, or later in the draft.

Especially when the Spurs will likely only have one lottery pick.

[thOOdee]

I feel very strongly we should come away with Khaman Maluach in this draft. First of all, backup C is a pressing need for us. Second, Maluach is the best center prospect in this draft and is right around our draft range.

It’s a match made in heaven.


Admittedly haven’t caught much of malauch other than highlights, but something seems off with his shot. Also his movement seems somewhat uncoordinated and off like most bigs of his height and thinness.

[BackHome]

I will pass on him would rather get a seasoned vet and a player in the second round that he can mentor so that will give us 3 bigs. We got bigger issues such as finding a starting SF and maybe Vassell replacement?

[thOOdee]

Im sure comparisons have already been made, but queen looks more of a player who has that bully “it” factor and his movement more just seems fluid compared to malauch. Someone want to prove me wrong?

[RC_Drunkford]

Im sure comparisons have already been made, but queen looks more of a player who has that bully “it” factor and his movement more just seems fluid compared to malauch. Someone want to prove me wrong?

he‘s not a defensive anchor

[ixiXSolidXixi]

Maluach is not NBA ready. He need 2-3 years before you see something. I respect your pick don’t get me wrong. In my opinion we need McNeeley or Knueppel. The second pick a PG between Jace Richardson, Fears or Traore. The Center position we need to address via trade or free agency. You have the opportunity to add Naz Reid or Myles Turner (NBA veterans)

We can even get a backup center with the second round pick.

[spurraider21]

i dont think Maluach is going to be worth it for us. he's obviously not worth consideration if we jump into the top 4, and he's not likely to even be on the board if we pick around 9-10 with our natural pick and then closer to 13-14 with hawks pick. this is not a weak draft like last year where i want the sure thing reserve who maybe someday can co-exist with wemby the same way i liked Clingan if he fell to 8

[spurraider21]

imo we need high end shooting perimeter players/wings who can play alongside both Fox/Castle together.

McNeeley has been on a very cold stretch, but i like him. i like him more than Knueppel because i think he has a better chance surviving defensively against NBA players, has more size, is a better athlete, and is a solid rebounder. Kon does more on-ball stuff offensively but i'm not sure thats really what we need especially if it comes at the expense of the other stuff mentioned

we also need a big forward who can defend well and also be a finisher offensively. basically a more dynamic sochan who has a better chance of surviving on the boards against bigs, playing some small 5. for this, the guys i like right now are Rasheer Fleming who on the surface appears to check all the boxes. 6'9, 230, reportedly has a long wingspan that may push 7'5. good outside shot, good athlete, can finish inside (giggidy). productive defensively. has 2 main blemishes that i can see... his age (3rd year player, but he will still be 20 at the time of draft, and will be 21 for all of next year. for a 3rd year player, thats on the younger side), and otherwise, i dont think he has much on-ball juice at all, but im not sure thats what we need anyway.

main other guy im looking at here is murray-boyles who seems to be a lot more sound a defender, but is smaller. has some more offensive game to him but not a shooter like Fleming. he also seems to have better touch than Fleming near the rim. little more of a fluid mover even though Fleming is a stronger and more explosive athlete. anyway, i like him way more than Asa Newell. im basically out on him unless we are picking in the late teens

[Vienna]

Alex Condon? brings similar qualities like Danny Wolfe does, but is the better athlete and defender. goes to line a lot, few TOs.
plays for one of the best teams in the country and had some of his best games vs. the top teams. (Auburn, Alabama)
looks quite underrated, some mocks don't even have him in the 2nd round. (Draftroom just moved him to the 1st round though).

[SpursBills]

McNeeley's sucked enough where I am not remotely comfortable taking him with a top 10 pick. His value is so highly leveraged to his shooting where I'm very uncomfortable taking that risk. Now that we have an entire season sample on him, the single biggest worry about him is actually his functional athleticism. He is a legitimate 6'8" guy who somehow shoots < 50% at the rim and can't generate defensive events to save his life. His FT rate and rebounding imply that he's got good physicality, but I do not necessarily see that in the few times when I'm watching him.

NBA 1st round draft picks in the past 15 years: <55% at the rim, <2 STL%, <2 BLK%, 6'6"+
This filter is actually pretty generous to McNeeley, as he's currently sitting at 49% at the rim, 1 STL%, 0.9 BLK% - it takes into account UConn typically depressing stock rates for their players.

Looking at just freshmen:
Jalen Hood-Schifino
Wendell Moore
Christian Braun
Tony Snell

And Christian Braun was not considered a draft prospect his freshman or sophomore year. I get small players who have trouble finishing at the rim - it's sort of a concern for me, but it's at least understandable given their size. But a big 6'8" guy who has that much trouble is a huge red flag. At the next level, I'm concerned that McNeeley might have the aggressiveness to drive on a closeout, but not the functional athleticism to necessarily convert, which decreases his actual gravity as a shooter. And if he can't maximize his gravity, he's pretty useless because he doesn't do much else at a high level. Would not draft with a top 10 pick, might consider with serious reservations with Atlanta's pick in the mid-teens.

[rankingtear]

McNeeley is neutered or useless on our offense. There is no handoff big nor screener to effectively run him to all the actions he is getting at UCONN. Kanipple is a better fit with more self creation and playmaking.

[cutewizard]

https://youtu.be/RqKzmLxbS34?si=KBX2ERS3_wiTtSkA

[cutewizard]

https://youtu.be/ZrjAmpeXOgA?si=THIufUgNIZq8UHk4

[RC_Drunkford]

imo we need high end shooting perimeter players/wings who can play alongside both Fox/Castle together.

McNeeley has been on a very cold stretch, but i like him. i like him more than Knueppel because i think he has a better chance surviving defensively against NBA players, has more size, is a better athlete, and is a solid rebounder. Kon does more on-ball stuff offensively but i'm not sure thats really what we need especially if it comes at the expense of the other stuff mentioned

we also need a big forward who can defend well and also be a finisher offensively. basically a more dynamic sochan who has a better chance of surviving on the boards against bigs, playing some small 5. for this, the guys i like right now are Rasheer Fleming who on the surface appears to check all the boxes. 6'9, 230, reportedly has a long wingspan that may push 7'5. good outside shot, good athlete, can finish inside (giggidy). productive defensively. has 2 main blemishes that i can see... his age (3rd year player, but he will still be 20 at the time of draft, and will be 21 for all of next year. for a 3rd year player, thats on the younger side), and otherwise, i dont think he has much on-ball juice at all, but im not sure thats what we need anyway.

main other guy im looking at here is murray-boyles who seems to be a lot more sound a defender, but is smaller. has some more offensive game to him but not a shooter like Fleming. he also seems to have better touch than Fleming near the rim. little more of a fluid mover even though Fleming is a stronger and more explosive athlete. anyway, i like him way more than Asa Newell. im basically out on him unless we are picking in the late teens

I‘m completely with you on this

[rascal]

What is your plan personally if the spurs picks end up at 9 and 16?

I would take Fleming over Richardson with the Atlanta pick. Not sure at 9 yet.

[SpursBills]

imo we need high end shooting perimeter players/wings who can play alongside both Fox/Castle together.

McNeeley has been on a very cold stretch, but i like him. i like him more than Knueppel because i think he has a better chance surviving defensively against NBA players, has more size, is a better athlete, and is a solid rebounder. Kon does more on-ball stuff offensively but i'm not sure thats really what we need especially if it comes at the expense of the other stuff mentioned

we also need a big forward who can defend well and also be a finisher offensively. basically a more dynamic sochan who has a better chance of surviving on the boards against bigs, playing some small 5. for this, the guys i like right now are Rasheer Fleming who on the surface appears to check all the boxes. 6'9, 230, reportedly has a long wingspan that may push 7'5. good outside shot, good athlete, can finish inside (giggidy). productive defensively. has 2 main blemishes that i can see... his age (3rd year player, but he will still be 20 at the time of draft, and will be 21 for all of next year. for a 3rd year player, thats on the younger side), and otherwise, i dont think he has much on-ball juice at all, but im not sure thats what we need anyway.

main other guy im looking at here is murray-boyles who seems to be a lot more sound a defender, but is smaller. has some more offensive game to him but not a shooter like Fleming. he also seems to have better touch than Fleming near the rim. little more of a fluid mover even though Fleming is a stronger and more explosive athlete. anyway, i like him way more than Asa Newell. im basically out on him unless we are picking in the late teens

To me they're on completely different tiers as prospects, and stylistically very different. Fleming is a big wing, while CMB is a mobile big.

Drafting Fleming and getting a shooting 3 and D wing like NAW is the easiest path to being a good playoff team. Fox, Castle, NAW, Fleming, Wemby. Easily attainable lineup that barely requires any luck to build. Shooting at multiple positions, no real defensive weak spots, two attacking guards who can get to the rim. It'll work well against a vast majority of teams. Fleming's shown me enough as a shooter that I buy him at least as a medium volume spot up guy.

Where CMB gives you an advantage is with small fast teams that can rotate quickly and prominently feature a unicorn big. With unicorn bigs, especially skinny ones, the optimal defender for them is a physical long defender that can win with strength. See the success that PJ Tucker has had against Durant. CMB is a very similar build, but bigger, longer, more athletic, and with better defensive instincts. This makes him a really good theoretical counter to skilled big guys with a skinny build - Durant, Chet Holmgren, and...Victor Wembanyama. Additionally, with fast teams that can close out fast, decision making is at a premium as you need to be able to make plays against a rapidly rotating defense. Additionally, the primary weakness of these smaller teams is that they sacrifice bulk and strength. If you have a skilled mobile big that can attack, you can exploit that lack of size to get to the rim. These are things that I don't have as much confidence in Fleming to do. That's why from the beginning of the year I've said that CMB is an anti-OKC weapon. It's way tougher from a roster construction standpoint, but the payoff deep in the playoffs especially against elite teams is greater.

[SpursBills]

I would take Fleming over Richardson with the Atlanta pick. Not sure at 9 yet.

I agree with that but I don't think Fleming is going to be available with the Atlanta pick

[ginobilized]

I like Fleming a LOT. The PJ Washington comp sounds like exactly the type we need. I see his ceiling as a PF somewhere between PJ and Naz. Height-wise that's where he sits, too.
I'd be down for drafting 2 PFs in this draft, and finding an established shooter or two via free agency/trade. Depending on which way the ping-pong balls bounce and whether or not Naz Reid is gettable.

[rascal]

CMB and Fleming would be a nice haul from the draft if outside the top 4.

Move Sochan out of the starting lineup and play CMB at SF.

[exstatic]

CMB and Fleming would be a nice haul from the draft if outside the top 4.

Move Sochan out of the starting lineup and play CMB at SF.

News update: Sochan hasn’t started in months. Film at eleven.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

CMB at SF :lol

[spurraider21]

CMB at SF :lol
may as well slide sochan down to SG while we're at it :lol

[John B]

News update: Sochan hasn’t started in months. Film at eleven.

Also from the backup Center position please, unless against small ball, emphasis on “small.”

[scott]

McNeeley's sucked enough where I am not remotely comfortable taking him with a top 10 pick. His value is so highly leveraged to his shooting where I'm very uncomfortable taking that risk. Now that we have an entire season sample on him, the single biggest worry about him is actually his functional athleticism. He is a legitimate 6'8" guy who somehow shoots < 50% at the rim and can't generate defensive events to save his life. His FT rate and rebounding imply that he's got good physicality, but I do not necessarily see that in the few times when I'm watching him.

NBA 1st round draft picks in the past 15 years: <55% at the rim, <2 STL%, <2 BLK%, 6'6"+
This filter is actually pretty generous to McNeeley, as he's currently sitting at 49% at the rim, 1 STL%, 0.9 BLK% - it takes into account UConn typically depressing stock rates for their players.

Looking at just freshmen:
Jalen Hood-Schifino
Wendell Moore
Christian Braun
Tony Snell

And Christian Braun was not considered a draft prospect his freshman or sophomore year. I get small players who have trouble finishing at the rim - it's sort of a concern for me, but it's at least understandable given their size. But a big 6'8" guy who has that much trouble is a huge red flag. At the next level, I'm concerned that McNeeley might have the aggressiveness to drive on a closeout, but not the functional athleticism to necessarily convert, which decreases his actual gravity as a shooter. And if he can't maximize his gravity, he's pretty useless because he doesn't do much else at a high level. Would not draft with a top 10 pick, might consider with serious reservations with Atlanta's pick in the mid-teens.

Dude, always loves your posts. Thank you for your contributions.

What tool do you use for these filters?

[scott]

To me they're on completely different tiers as prospects, and stylistically very different. Fleming is a big wing, while CMB is a mobile big.

Drafting Fleming and getting a shooting 3 and D wing like NAW is the easiest path to being a good playoff team. Fox, Castle, NAW, Fleming, Wemby. Easily attainable lineup that barely requires any luck to build. Shooting at multiple positions, no real defensive weak spots, two attacking guards who can get to the rim. It'll work well against a vast majority of teams. Fleming's shown me enough as a shooter that I buy him at least as a medium volume spot up guy.

Where CMB gives you an advantage is with small fast teams that can rotate quickly and prominently feature a unicorn big. With unicorn bigs, especially skinny ones, the optimal defender for them is a physical long defender that can win with strength. See the success that PJ Tucker has had against Durant. CMB is a very similar build, but bigger, longer, more athletic, and with better defensive instincts. This makes him a really good theoretical counter to skilled big guys with a skinny build - Durant, Chet Holmgren, and...Victor Wembanyama. Additionally, with fast teams that can close out fast, decision making is at a premium as you need to be able to make plays against a rapidly rotating defense. Additionally, the primary weakness of these smaller teams is that they sacrifice bulk and strength. If you have a skilled mobile big that can attack, you can exploit that lack of size to get to the rim. These are things that I don't have as much confidence in Fleming to do. That's why from the beginning of the year I've said that CMB is an anti-OKC weapon. It's way tougher from a roster construction standpoint, but the payoff deep in the playoffs especially against elite teams is greater.

Can NAW really hold up as a full-time SF? Seems undersized and more suited as a guard to me, defensively. I haven't watched him a ton, but seems like if you started him next to Castle you'd be putting one of them at an immediate disadvantage of having to guard the opposing SF, many of whom can use their size to get an advantage? Maybe Steph can use his strength to hold up and he takes the SF while NAW is your primary perimeter defender?

[scott]

CMB and Fleming would be a nice haul from the draft if outside the top 4.

Move Sochan out of the starting lineup and play CMB at SF.

Don't see CMB as a SF... but I like the idea of taking both Fleming and CMB. Address the PF weakness by doubling up there.

[SpursBills]

Dude, always loves your posts. Thank you for your contributions.

What tool do you use for these filters?

https://www.barttorvik.com/#

Have fun!

[SpursBills]

Can NAW really hold up as a full-time SF? Seems undersized and more suited as a guard to me, defensively. I haven't watched him a ton, but seems like if you started him next to Castle you'd be putting one of them at an immediate disadvantage of having to guard the opposing SF, many of whom can use their size to get an advantage? Maybe Steph can use his strength to hold up and he takes the SF while NAW is your primary perimeter defender?

I don’t think so, he’s smaller than I’d like, but he’s probably the only one who’s readily available without sacrificing a ton. I’d probably try and get him as a stopgap and then transition him to a bench role as you upgrade your team. Ideally you get young KD, but short of that I’d be looking at guys like Jaden McDaniels, old KD, MPJ, etc. Nobody that’s currently readily available without either paying out the nose for a trade or paying the player a ton of money.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

may as well slide sochan down to SG while we're at it :lol

Well we already tried him at PG. What could go wrong.

[Dejounte]

McNeeley's sucked enough where I am not remotely comfortable taking him with a top 10 pick. His value is so highly leveraged to his shooting where I'm very uncomfortable taking that risk. Now that we have an entire season sample on him, the single biggest worry about him is actually his functional athleticism. He is a legitimate 6'8" guy who somehow shoots < 50% at the rim and can't generate defensive events to save his life. His FT rate and rebounding imply that he's got good physicality, but I do not necessarily see that in the few times when I'm watching him.

NBA 1st round draft picks in the past 15 years: <55% at the rim, <2 STL%, <2 BLK%, 6'6"+
This filter is actually pretty generous to McNeeley, as he's currently sitting at 49% at the rim, 1 STL%, 0.9 BLK% - it takes into account UConn typically depressing stock rates for their players.

Looking at just freshmen:
Jalen Hood-Schifino
Wendell Moore
Christian Braun
Tony Snell

And Christian Braun was not considered a draft prospect his freshman or sophomore year. I get small players who have trouble finishing at the rim - it's sort of a concern for me, but it's at least understandable given their size. But a big 6'8" guy who has that much trouble is a huge red flag. At the next level, I'm concerned that McNeeley might have the aggressiveness to drive on a closeout, but not the functional athleticism to necessarily convert, which decreases his actual gravity as a shooter. And if he can't maximize his gravity, he's pretty useless because he doesn't do much else at a high level. Would not draft with a top 10 pick, might consider with serious reservations with Atlanta's pick in the mid-teens.

Ha so me putting McNeely in the bust category tier was on point

[SpursBills]

Ha so me putting McNeely in the bust category tier was on point

I personally think so. Took a while for the numbers to catch up to eye test, but we got there in the end

Maybe I’m still not ready to use the word ‘bust’ quite yet - definitely overrated by mainstream though

[BackHome]

That is the problem when you don’t get draft picks in the lottery you end up looking at a decent role player or a Fat under sized slow Center in Queen or a Shorter version of Sochan in CMB

[exstatic]

Well,I guess if ATL won’t help us out, we’ll help ourselves. Swapped 8/9 positions with CHI tonight.

[onechance87]

Well,I guess if ATL won’t help us out, we’ll help ourselves. Swapped 8/9 positions with CHI tonight.

we are coming flagg:hungry:

[rascal]

Why is Fleming so low in several mock drafts? He looks to be a great fit for the Spurs.

[onechance87]

Why is Fleming so low in several mock drafts? He looks to be a great fit for the Spurs.

think cause he plays against alot of small program teams.

[spurraider21]

Why is Fleming so low in several mock drafts? He looks to be a great fit for the Spurs.
he'll probably be a riser especially after all the athletic testing and measurements

[onechance87]

Jermemiah fears,Asa newell and collin murray boyles all had good games moving there stock up.
Lets see what fleming and mcneely do tommrow after looking bad last couple of games.

[rascal]

think cause he plays against alot of small program teams.

He's going to be a steal for some team. Hope the spurs don't sleep on him. I like him more than several players inside the current mocked top ten.

[SpursBills]

He's going to be a steal for some team. Hope the spurs don't sleep on him. I like him more than several players inside the current mocked top ten.

Spurs are coming out of this draft with McNeeley and Danny Wolf and you're going to like it

[heyheymymy]

Fleming is at a pretty small school but like others say he won't hide at the combine. If he is who we think he is he will blow up after combine and workouts regardless of NCAA or March Madness prominence

[mudyez]

Spurs are coming out of this draft with McNeeley and Danny Wolf and you're going to like it

There is still the dream of jumping up but if not I'd be ok with those two.

[objective]

My impressions from hearing various podcasts etc is that people think Fleming also has very little on ball juice and is just a 3 & D athlete who might not have the feet or mobility to hang with ball handling wings at the NBA level, could be best at guarding bigger players.

Those guys are valuable on NBA rosters, but there's only so much plus value there. Look at Tari Eason: creates events and hustles, fast breaks, and while he defends people don't think of him as a #1 lockdown guy (Dunc'd On very recently covered him and was pointed on him not being a #1) ....

And another guy drafted at age 21 ... And he's a good bench piece drafted 17th. His next contract doesn't look too ominous.

That's kind of the thing with Fleming. He could go 17, be impressive in summer league, be a good bench players and fill in starter.

[objective]

As unremarkable a season that he's had, I still kind of like Hugo Gonzalez.

In all the years of "next Manu-itis" that's been thrust upon any vaguely wing sized player with blood ties to the ancient Roman designated area of Hispania ....

He's the only one that has had athleticism anywhere close to Manu. Not saying he's equal as an athlete because Manu was a special athlete. And definitely not saying his game compares ...

But he does look like a legit NBA athlete to me. He's such a project still that he may not even come out or maybe he'll do a Fran Vazquez.

Might be worth a gamble if the Atlanta pick is really late in the teens or early 20s and the other usual suspects are off the board

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

So with the Spurs season hanging on ping pong balls once again I've turned my attention to the draft lately. Here's where I'm at.

This isn't how I expect the draft to go, nor how I see these players in 5 years, just my Spurs board.

Tier 1 ( the obvious top 4 currently, in that order )
1.Flagg
2.Harper - I like the fit on the Spurs, multiple ball handlers, multiple players who can attack the rim, tall, big. At worst it can be a Haliburton in Kings situation
3.Ace - too talented to pass here, although limitations are obvious. Still very young. Even if his handle never develops I could see him as a Jerami Grant type. Doesn't sound amazing for a 3rd pick but I consider it close to his floor unless he pulls a Cam Reddish
4.VJ - don't think he's even close to 6'5 but he could probably play big enough to be a 2 due to his athleticism. Wish his handle and playmaking were better. Lots of upside defensively, having someone who could potentially guard quick PGs would be super valuable

Tier 2 ( weird place in the draft, kinda don't think anyone is great value here, but someone will hit for sure )
5.Tre Johnson - I think he can be an awesome 6th man in the Lou Williams type, but bigger. His playmaking is better than he's giver credit and yeah he can't get to the rim but perhaps this is partly due to his team being horrible with 0 spacing
6.Kon Knueppel - I like him as a connective piece. He's good at defense, a good playmaker, I can see him as a Max Strus type, or even a Desmond Bane if everything goes well
7.Rasheer Fleming - that's right I have him high. Not a great ceiling due to a lack of self creation and a questionable shot, but ticks so many boxes. Can't see him being great defending on the perimeter but will do great against the likes of Zion, Randle. etc.
8.Liam McNeeley - not a sexy pick but he's pretty plug and play, no doubt his shooting translates. Other than that there are some good signs (rebounding, getting to the line a ton) and some bad ones (can't finish, defense)
9.Jase Richardson - smart player, probably a bit too short to play the 2 and not a good enough playmaker to be a full time PG but he could excel in a Fox-Castle-Richardson rotation
10.Will Riley - probably too high and probably two years away so he'll be called a bust, but I like his shooting and especially his on ball and playmaking development. I'd take the risk
11.J. Fears - not a great fit on the Spurs but at this point there are slim pickings. His handle and first step are elite, so there's a lot to work with compared to other players without an elite skill
12.Kasparas - I have him low because I don't believe he can create separation against high level athletes but he's smart and will find a niche. Probably not on the Spurs. I should have him lower (Can't wait for the Spurs to pick him 3rd or something)

Next Tier ( upside play, most probably won't be very good NBA players )
13.Carter Bryant - plug and play, made for today's NBA but I think his upside may not be that high. Still, a high level 3 and D roleplayer would be great value at the end of the lotter/mid first
14.Asa Newel - don't think he's a 4, don't think he's a 5, don't think he'll shoot great. But he has some nice tools and could be a valuable player if he puts it together
15.Nolan Traore - same as Kasparas, just don't think he'll be able to drive to the rim against NBA athletes, but I like his passing and don't think his shot is as bad as the numbers suggest
16.Egor Demin - not sure what he is in the NBA, I guess a Deni Avdija if all goes well
17.Ben Saraf - has a star's skillset but not good enough to play like one. I've watched him 2 or 3 times he's shifty and he shoots a lot of midrange Js. Generally young players who put up numbers in professional leagues are a good bet. Might move him higher
18.Drake Powel - I like his defense and motor. He's not allowed to show much in his team's system but I like the upside
19.John Blackwell - I think he's an NBA player eventually. Not so sure about some of the above

A separate tier for 3 guys I don't see the fit for
20.CMB - I have him low because I don't see how he scores in the NBA. He's more of a 5 and gives me Precious Achiuwa vibes, but I can accept being wrong here. Still, don't see the Spurs fit
21.Thomas Sorber - don't know if his foot is alright, but out of this group of misfits I believe in his shot the most
22.Khaman Maluach - I get the idea of a possible Capela type but I don't see him developing as a 12 MPG back-up on the Spurs with zero chance to earn more. Perimeter defense is surprisingly good, but I don't believe in the shot at all
23.Derik Queen - same as CMB, talent is there but unsure what he'd do on the Spurs. Also his defense in space is beyond horrible

Tier whatever (maybe, possibly, I'm struggling to fill up a first round in this draft)
24.Adou Thiero - if he could ever learn to shoot he'd be much higher, love the athleticism. There's always a Toumani Camara somewhere waiting to put it all together
25.Noa Essengue - a good profile, but just don't think he's advanced enough. Might be very good down the road
26.Myles Byrd - his defense is good but I don't believe in that trebuchet shot
27.Nique Clifford - he's old but he can play and projects as a decent 8/9th man, a Champagnie maybe. Not sure his shot is for real though
28.Noah Penda - he's big and he moves well, that's more than some in this draft
29.Tyrese Proctor - I have him higher than most but I think he's a good player, no real elite skill but well rounded and sometimes this exact type turns into a very valuable role player
30.Bogoljub Markovic - tall and can shoot and even pass a little. Should be higher but I don't think he survives defensively at all

That was difficult to come up with 30 players for this draft. It's gross. I'm probably forgetting someone. I actually have four more - Philon, Ian Jackson, Evans, Sanon - but I'm pretty sure they go back to college.

[SpursBills]

Has anyone watched/heard of Alvaro Folgueiras? Might be worth a second round flyer. Plays in the Horizon league but has the "Draymond" numbers profile - +stocks, +OREB%, +AST%, and with added bonus of + shooting indicators

6'9" sophomore PF, just turned 20
9% ORB%, 4.3 BLK%, 2.8 STL%, 22 AST%, 1.3 AST:TO, shooting 78% FT and 43% from 3 on medium volume, 40% from midrange

[spurraider21]

So with the Spurs season hanging on ping pong balls once again I've turned my attention to the draft lately. Here's where I'm at.

This isn't how I expect the draft to go, nor how I see these players in 5 years, just my Spurs board.
thanks for all that and the thoughts on each player :tu

im not well versed in most of these players, but im with you on liking fleming/mcneeley/knueppel for what little i know so far. newell/queen/CMB are also tough for me to wrap my head around. undersized interior players who dont shoot well like CMB are scary. sure they can pan out, but you also have a lot of college stars with that description who flopped in the NBA like hansbrough

[3&D_TBH]

Seems there are a wiiiiide variety of D Queen takes out there. I’ve seen people say he’s top 3 in the draft and I’ve seen people say he’s a bum. Shades of of B Diaw but Boris had a better shot.

[Mr. Body]

Amazing how many lotto picks won't make the NCAAT. I don't remember it being this bad.

Feels like we have two likely stars in Flagg and Harper. Bailey has the talent but a team might have to build around his problems and teams may not want to do this.

Then a few interesting possibilities (Tre, VJ) and then the value starts cratering in relation to pick number. I wonder if picks 6-10 or so are actually going to be worse than those picks last year.

Flagg did his ankle during his game today; we'll hear how bad it was.

Watching Texas/TAMU and it's impressive how poor the Longhorn coaching is, almost Spurs level bad. They'll iso Tre Johnson for late-game shots and he can't get anything. That's just not him.

[spurraider21]

one thing i will say for my fellow Fleming enjoyers... the more you watch, the more you realize the guy has pretty poor touch/feel with the ball in his hands. he has made the occasional, surprisingly decent pass, but in general, asking him to do anything besides taking a 3 and laying it in/dunking is asking a lot of him :lol

his passing is generally poor. his turnover % in college (turnovers per 100 possessions) is about 12%, which is not that far off from what we've seen out of wemby in the pros (15%) despite having the ball a lot less. someone like harrison barnes is at 8.6% for his career, about 6% for us this year.

so he's still got work to do to at least mitigate those weaknesses

[scott]

one thing i will say for my fellow Fleming enjoyers... the more you watch, the more you realize the guy has pretty poor touch/feel with the ball in his hands. he has made the occasional, surprisingly decent pass, but in general, asking him to do anything besides taking a 3 and laying it in/dunking is asking a lot of him :lol

his passing is general poor. his turnover % in college (turnovers per 100 possessions) is about 12%, which is not that far off from what we've seen out of wemby in the pros (15%) despite having the ball a lot less. someone like harrison barnes is at 8.6% for his career, about 6% for us this year.

so he's still got work to do to at least mitigate those weaknesses

We talking like Charles Bassey-like clumsiness upon entry, or more like a Boban "I don't know what this round object is or why you threw it to me" kind of thing?

Someone talk some Sergio DeLarrea sweet nothings to me? Is his only a mo7888 favorite (which a lot of times is good enough for me, mo is always a solid evaluator)? He's down to #26 on Tankathon, I'm hoping maybe he slides to us in the 2nd (who am I kidding, we aren't taking someone in the early second round :lol)

[spurraider21]

We talking like Charles Bassey-like clumsiness upon entry, or more like a Boban "I don't know what this round object is or why you threw it to me" kind of thing?

Someone talk some Sergio DeLarrea sweet nothings to me? Is his only a mo7888 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=43104) favorite (which a lot of times is good enough for me, mo is always a solid evaluator)? He's down to #26 on Tankathon, I'm hoping maybe he slides to us in the 2nd (who am I kidding, we aren't taking someone in the early second round :lol)
no i dont think its Boban bad. he plays on the perimeter and you can see him beat some pump fakes here and there with simple crossovers, sometimes the slow/ineffective sochan spin move type stuff. he's not going to just fumble the ball off his knees per se the way we'd see from LDN. his passing is rough, its kind of like bassey. he'll throw behind a moving player, etc. wont properly anticipate player movement. or just off target sometimes.

as far as touch... im not expecting hookshots, floaters, or turnaround shots or anything like that from him.

offensively, think less JJJ, more Myles Turner. less is more with him (at least for now)

[mo7888]

We talking like Charles Bassey-like clumsiness upon entry, or more like a Boban "I don't know what this round object is or why you threw it to me" kind of thing?

Someone talk some Sergio DeLarrea sweet nothings to me? Is his only a mo7888 favorite (which a lot of times is good enough for me, mo is always a solid evaluator)? He's down to #26 on Tankathon, I'm hoping maybe he slides to us in the 2nd (who am I kidding, we aren't taking someone in the early second round :lol)

On De Larrea I love the fit here. He's a very good shooter from deep with good size. Originally I saw him as someone who could play alongside Castle seamlessly. Now that we have Fox, and assuming we move Devin. A Fox, Castle, De Larrea rotation with DL coming off the bench offers alot of upside. There are certainly weakness too. He's not a strong defender and turns it over to much, but I believe he can mitigate the D with effort due to his size and I believe the turnovers can be cleaned up with a defined role. Part of the reason I have him as high as I do on my Spurs board is because of the other guys on the board at that point. Egor for instance I have right below because I value shooting more for this team than the things Egor brings. Egor could be a really good player (even on this team) if you have a guy at the 2 and 4 who can defend and shooter better than league average from three. We just don't currently have those guys and I don't really project trades into my board to determine what our needs are.

[CGD]

All these gossip girls want K-Nipple to SA. Is he any good? Better than MacNeely?

[Mr. Body]

All these gossip girls want K-Nipple to SA. Is he any good? Better than MacNeely?

Kon blew up tonight after Flagg went down, including playmaking, getting into the lane and tossing lobs to Maluach. I'd say he's a good bit better than McNeeley right now definitely.

[Dejounte]

Tier 1 - no brainer, destined for stardom
Flagg
Harper

Tier 2 - Oozing talent
Kon
VJ Edgecombe

Tier 3 - Good gamble. Low chance of stardom, but I like the fit
Fleming
Queen
Demin

Tier 4 - Tools are there, but I don’t trust it
Bailey
Tre Johnson

Tier 5 - Dark horse picks who I personally believe have hope to become stars
Saraf
De Larrea
Byrd
Riley
Traore

Tier 6 - Safe, role player ceiling picks
CMB
Kasparas
Maluach
Noa Essengue

Tier 7 - I wouldn’t understand this pick
Asa Newell
Fears

Tier 8 - Bust
McNeeley

[Dejounte]

Kon is this year’s Castle. The Spurs (if they get high enough) will draft him solely because he plays like a 10 year vet and plays like a winner.

[onechance87]

yea kon looked good.Lets see if he can keep doing this.

[Mr. Body]

Kon is this year’s Castle. The Spurs (if they get high enough) will draft him solely because he plays like a 10 year vet and plays like a winner.

Isn't that what you'd want?

[Trueblood]

Why is Fleming so low in several mock drafts? He looks to be a great fit for the Spurs.

I think age has a lot to do with it. They showed the analytics on it during the last draft and a decent 18 year old in college has a higher probability of being a great player than a really good 21 year old. The fact is that those three years make a huge difference and at 21 he should be dominant given that he’s a man playing against boys. I like him, but basically he is now exactly what he will be when he comes in. So you have to ask yourself, is what he is now worth a lottery (or near lottery) pick.

[SpursBills]

thanks for all that and the thoughts on each player :tu

im not well versed in most of these players, but im with you on liking fleming/mcneeley/knueppel for what little i know so far. newell/queen/CMB are also tough for me to wrap my head around. undersized interior players who dont shoot well like CMB are scary. sure they can pan out, but you also have a lot of college stars with that description who flopped in the NBA like hansbrough

This is a good point that I want to dig into a little further, can you give some examples of these players in recent memory?

So far I can think of Hansbrough, Jahlil Okafor, Caleb Swanigan, Jared Sullinger, Luka Garza, Thomas Robinson off the top of my head. I'm sure there's a few I'm missing.

Does Brandon Clarke fit into this or would you consider him a solid player?

[Uriel]

I’m just really not sold on Kneuppel the way I am on, say, his teammate Maluach. Don’t get me wrong, I think he’s a really good basketball player. But I just can’t look past his lack of physical tools. I really believe he benefits a lot from playing alongside Flagg, who draws a lot of defensive attention. But when you put actual size and length on Kneuppel, he struggles. I’m just not sure he will translate at the next level.

On the other hand, Maluach for me is very clearly a sure thing. He has excellent size, length, and tremendous upside, only having learned how to play basketball recently, unlike Kneuppel who’s been playing all his life.

Again, I like Kneuppel and I’m rooting for him to succeed. I’m just giving my honest opinion.

[spurraider21]

I think age has a lot to do with it. They showed the analytics on it during the last draft and a decent 18 year old in college has a higher probability of being a great player than a really good 21 year old. The fact is that those three years make a huge difference and at 21 he should be dominant given that he’s a man playing against boys. I like him, but basically he is now exactly what he will be when he comes in. So you have to ask yourself, is what he is now worth a lottery (or near lottery) pick.
just to be precise, Fleming is 20. he will turn 21 in july. he's an upperclassman but a young one in that context. he'll be 21 his entire rookie year

j-dub turned 22 near the end of his rookie year

[spurraider21]

This is a good point that I want to dig into a little further, can you give some examples of these players in recent memory?

So far I can think of Hansbrough, Jahlil Okafor, Caleb Swanigan, Jared Sullinger, Luka Garza, Thomas Robinson off the top of my head. I'm sure there's a few I'm missing.

Does Brandon Clarke fit into this or would you consider him a solid player?
definitely not recent, but i always think back to Sean May

[SpursBills]

definitely not recent, but i always think back to Sean May

Nice one. I'm going to dig into some numbers, but my guess is that undersized non-shooting interior big usually fails in the NBA when they can't do 3 things:

1. Can't drive - without a good face-up game / decent handles, they have no way to initiate the offense other than a post entry pass
2. Can't pass - becomes a one dimensional scorer and ball-stopper / play finisher, forces inefficient post-centric offense
3. Can't defend, specifically defend the perimeter - if they can't defend the perimeter they're forced to become a rim protector where size works against them

[south side spur]

Nice one. I'm going to dig into some numbers, but my guess is that undersized non-shooting interior big usually fails in the NBA when they can't do 3 things:

1. Can't drive - without a good face-up game / decent handles, they have no way to initiate the offense other than a post entry pass
2. Can't pass - becomes a one dimensional scorer and ball-stopper / play finisher, forces inefficient post-centric offense
3. Can't defend, specifically defend the perimeter - if they can't defend the perimeter they're forced to become a rim protector where size works against them

CMB can handle, drive, pass and facilitate the offense from the perimeter. He’s usually positioned at the free throw line out to the 3 point line when he receives the ball. He’s definitely a face up not a back to the basket player. He can definitely defend on the perimeter. These players you’re comparing him to past interior bigs play nothing like him so instead of researching your undersized big theory which you’re correct obviously I suggest watch more CMB tape. He’s more Draymond Green than those past bigs you named. He played with the worst supporting cast competing in arguably the toughest conference in NCAA history.

[cutewizard]

https://youtu.be/FhHueR2IEgc?si=EurUlkQLYY20CaXq

[Dejounte]

yea kon looked good.Lets see if he can keep doing this.

We don’t want him to keep doing this. He’ll jump into the top 4 and there’ll be no chance. The Spurs should know how talented he is by now. Well, if the Spurs jump to 3, 4 at least I think Kon is the undisputed third or fourth best player of this draft. People are sleeping on Kon. His high school tape shows he’s much more than he is, just like Castle’s did. He has a good in-between game to where he doesn’t just suffer being a 1-dimensional player. He also has good lateral speed to stay in front of his man. But above all, the kid is highly intelligent and makes heads up plays. Kon is the obvious Spurs pick if the Spurs don’t land the top 2 picks.

[SpursBills]

CMB can handle, drive, pass and facilitate the offense from the perimeter. He’s usually positioned at the free throw line out to the 3 point line when he receives the ball. He’s definitely a face up not a back to the basket player. He can definitely defend on the perimeter. These players you’re comparing him to past interior bigs play nothing like him so instead of researching your undersized big theory which you’re correct obviously I suggest watch more CMB tape. He’s more Draymond Green than those past bigs you named. He played with the worst supporting cast competing in arguably the toughest conference in NCAA history.

LOL I've been CMB's biggest backer on this entire board dude and said that he's a top 5 prospect in my book. I've watched plenty of his games and know exactly how he plays. My entire point of the post was that he does all three of those things so he has a far greater avenue to success compared to traditional undersized bigs that previously busted in the NBA.

[rascal]

We don’t want him to keep doing this. He’ll jump into the top 4 and there’ll be no chance. The Spurs should know how talented he is by now. Well, if the Spurs jump to 3, 4 at least I think Kon is the undisputed third or fourth best player of this draft. People are sleeping on Kon. His high school tape shows he’s much more than he is, just like Castle’s did. He has a good in-between game to where he doesn’t just suffer being a 1-dimensional player. He also has good lateral speed to stay in front of his man. But above all, the kid is highly intelligent and makes heads up plays. Kon is the obvious Spurs pick if the Spurs don’t land the top 2 picks.

You are overrating him. He's not a top 4. He's listed at 6' 7" but looks smaller and I'll bet his meausurements will be smaller.

[Dejounte]

You are overrating him. He's not a top 4. He's listed at 6' 7" but looks smaller and I'll bet his meausurements will be smaller.

Nah, I’m not.

[FutureMan]

The rage I would feel if they drafted Kon over Edgecomb…. It would Haliburton all over again.

[south side spur]

LOL I've been CMB's biggest backer on this entire board dude and said that he's a top 5 prospect in my book. I've watched plenty of his games and know exactly how he plays. My entire point of the post was that he does all three of those things so he has a far greater avenue to success compared to traditional undersized bigs that previously busted in the NBA.

Thats my mistake then I was confused why those names were even brought up I thought y’all were comparing him to them.

[Mr. Body]

The rage I would feel if they drafted Kon over Edgecomb…. It would Haliburton all over again.

I'm warming to Kneuppel but yeah, Edgecombe has the ceiling here.

[SpursBills]

Nah, I’m not.

This is what I said about him in early February:

“Kon Knueppel
The good: best shooting stroke among all the freshmen; has the potential for true movement shooting; shooting 87% FT, 38% 3s on high rate with higher degree of difficulty than just spot ups; Surprisingly underrated defender - top 10 in freshman defensive BPR this year and moves his feet well, good positioning; 3:1 AST:TO indicates good decision-making, sometimes used as an initiator at Duke indicates playmaking potential at the next level
The bad: short (there is no way in hell he's 6'7"), stubby arms, limited athleticism. 3 point % drops off a cliff the better the competition gets, suggesting he may not be able to get his shot off against more athletic defenders at the next level (40% against trash ACC competition, 31% vs top 100 competition, 23% vs top 50 competition). If it wasn't for the athleticism concerns he might have some Desmond Bane equity, but the numbers against good teams make that a lot less likely”

I think it still holds true today - looks like Reddit is catching on to the Desmond bane comp now and I think that’s still probably his 70th percentile outcome. His vertical athleticism seems worse but his passing is more advanced relative to age. I do want to see how he does in the tournament against some better teams before I fully buy in though.

[Mr. Body]

I might say Tre Johnson is a better shooter than Kneuppel, although it doesn't matter that much. Very similar percentages and TJ has to take more difficult shots as the primary. Higher usage. Not the same defender and maybe not as multi-dimensional. Advanced defensive numbers are sometimes bolstered by team play and Duke's is far better.

[Dejounte]

This is what I said about him in early February:

“Kon Knueppel
The good: best shooting stroke among all the freshmen; has the potential for true movement shooting; shooting 87% FT, 38% 3s on high rate with higher degree of difficulty than just spot ups; Surprisingly underrated defender - top 10 in freshman defensive BPR this year and moves his feet well, good positioning; 3:1 AST:TO indicates good decision-making, sometimes used as an initiator at Duke indicates playmaking potential at the next level
The bad: short (there is no way in hell he's 6'7"), stubby arms, limited athleticism. 3 point % drops off a cliff the better the competition gets, suggesting he may not be able to get his shot off against more athletic defenders at the next level (40% against trash ACC competition, 31% vs top 100 competition, 23% vs top 50 competition). If it wasn't for the athleticism concerns he might have some Desmond Bane equity, but the numbers against good teams make that a lot less likely”

I think it still holds true today - looks like Reddit is catching on to the Desmond bane comp now and I think that’s still probably his 70th percentile outcome. His vertical athleticism seems worse but his passing is more advanced relative to age. I do want to see how he does in the tournament against some better teams before I fully buy in though.

My eye test will prevail once again, tbh

People are focused on him as a shooter just as people were focused on Castle as strictly a defender. Kon offers so much more and it will be shown in due time.

[Dejounte]

The early comparison I’ll make for Kon is DeMar DeRozan with a three point shot. I don’t buy the narrative that he’s smaller than 6’7”. I think he’s exactly the same size as DeMar (maybe shorter arms).

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=kon-knueppel--demar-derozan

Dream draft right now would be Kon and a big with the ATL pick: Fleming, CMB, or Queen

[John B]

The early comparison I’ll make for Kon is DeMar DeRozan with a three point shot. I don’t buy the narrative that he’s smaller than 6’7”. I think he’s exactly the same size as DeMar (maybe shorter arms).

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=kon-knueppel--demar-derozan

Dream draft right now would be Kon and a big with the ATL pick: Fleming, CMB, or Queen

Big and CMB in the same sentence is a rarity :lol

Wolf with an 18, 11 and 6 in 2-4 from 3FG in a dominant win over Purdue. Not too shabby. Up next Queen.

The only problem with Spurs drafting Wolf, what number does Wemby wear? :lol

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTkbC5wJvMQTkO9BdWv0EjZk2duAIGAk htJ4g&s
https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/blob:https://www.spurstalk.com/b4be8b5b-b469-489b-bdc8-96e8b2804c2a

[Robz4000]

Assuming the Spurs end up 9/10th, what current NBA players would you look to trade it for? I know with their cap situation trades are tricky, but would y'all trade the pick to Minny in a S&T for Naz Reid?

[Mr. Body]

The early comparison I’ll make for Kon is DeMar DeRozan with a three point shot. I don’t buy the narrative that he’s smaller than 6’7”. I think he’s exactly the same size as DeMar (maybe shorter arms).

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=kon-knueppel--demar-derozan

Dream draft right now would be Kon and a big with the ATL pick: Fleming, CMB, or Queen

I don't really see DeMar at all tbh. DDR is much more dynamic and mid-range forward. Kon reminds me of, yes, white dude, Austin Reeves - less playmaking, better defense.

[RC_Drunkford]

We might be able to catch Toronto and get to 7th

[Knoxxx]

The tank is on for the Spurs and all teams near then but we can easily put together a 10 game losing streak after possibly eking out a win tomorrow night. I’ll be there with some family members GO SPURS GO!!! (or Castle at least for 20+)

[exstatic]

We might be able to catch Toronto and get to 7th

That’s a fucking tall order. We have 17 games left, they have 15, and the difference in the W/L columns are 3/5.

[RC_Drunkford]

That’s a fucking tall order. We have 17 games left, they have 15, and the difference in the W/L columns are 3/5.

we also play them and should lose that game.

[scottspurs]

I’m really starting to warm up to the idea of drafting Derik Queen with the Spurs 1st pick unless they move up to #1 overall. Him and Wemby could be a deadly offensive combination. Jumbo pick and role. Queen can also demand a double team in the post and high post. I believe he could develop a 3-pt shot as well. I’m not as worried about defense because the spurs already have enough of that. Outside of him Dylan Harper and Tre Johnson I both like but they would need high volume to be effective. Otherwise I’m team draft the best shooter. I haven’t made a board yet but Queen will be very high.

[RC_Drunkford]

I’m really starting to warm up to the idea of drafting Derik Queen with the Spurs 1st pick unless they move up to #1 overall. Him and Wemby could be a deadly offensive combination. Jumbo pick and role. Queen can also demand a double team in the post and high post. I believe he could develop a 3-pt shot as well. I’m not as worried about defense because the spurs already have enough of that. Outside of him Dylan Harper and Tre Johnson I both like but they would need high volume to be effective. Otherwise I’m team draft the best shooter. I haven’t made a board yet but Queen will be very high.

I got news for you buddy: We're 25th in defensive rating...

[scottspurs]

Also don’t have a serious head coach. The pieces are there to defend.

[CGD]

Kon is this year’s Castle. The Spurs (if they get high enough) will draft him solely because he plays like a 10 year vet and plays like a winner.

Hell ya, sign me up!

[CGD]

How are we feeling about Asa Newell? I get the duplication with Sochan, but seems to be another heady, big motor type, who plays D and boards. Latter are definitely needs.

Yes, the questions about the shot, but looks like he’s shooting 75% from FT. Maybe workable over the years?

[CGD]

You are overrating him. He's not a top 4. He's listed at 6' 7" but looks smaller and I'll bet his meausurements will be smaller.

That’s the knock him right? He’s a tiny PF. Might as well grab Asa who does similar things but is listed at 6’11”

[Dejounte]

How are we feeling about Asa Newell? I get the duplication with Sochan, but seems to be another heady, big motor type, who plays D and boards. Latter are definitely needs.

Yes, the questions about the shot, but looks like he’s shooting 75% from FT. Maybe workable over the years?

We have had too many losses where we are bombarded by 3’s and the team can’t do anything about it.

You don’t fight 3 points with more players who can only score 2 points or does not playmake for others who can shoot the 3

You don’t defend 3 pointers with more players who aren’t that much better or smarter at defending the 3 than your current group

So whoever we get from this point forward has to meet one of the following:
1) shoot the 3 (Not learn it after several years)
2) defend the 3
3) drive and dish/ set up other 3 pt shooters

obviously newell meets none of those.

secondary need is a big who is physical and strong. Newell is more finesse than power so again, I do not see where the fit is. At best, I could see a Brandon Clarke type career for Newell and that kind of talent isn’t enough.

[rankingtear]

How are we feeling about Asa Newell? I get the duplication with Sochan, but seems to be another heady, big motor type, who plays D and boards. Latter are definitely needs.

Yes, the questions about the shot, but looks like he’s shooting 75% from FT. Maybe workable over the years?

Could be a generic stretch 4 in a few years. Nowhere close to Sochan + shooting upside.

[Dejounte]

I’m really starting to warm up to the idea of drafting Derik Queen with the Spurs 1st pick unless they move up to #1 overall. Him and Wemby could be a deadly offensive combination. Jumbo pick and role. Queen can also demand a double team in the post and high post. I believe he could develop a 3-pt shot as well. I’m not as worried about defense because the spurs already have enough of that. Outside of him Dylan Harper and Tre Johnson I both like but they would need high volume to be effective. Otherwise I’m team draft the best shooter. I haven’t made a board yet but Queen will be very high.


https://youtu.be/tvakw1WaQ20?feature=shared

Insane talent

[baseline bum]

Kinda worried about Harper and Bailey. How are they supposed to be the #2 and #3 picks and together can't even take Rutgers to a .500 record and the NCAA tournament?

[Dejounte]

Kinda worried about Harper and Bailey. How are they supposed to be the #2 and #3 picks and together can't even take Rutgers to a .500 record and the NCAA tournament?

This kind of thinking is likely aligned with how the Spurs think too. The Spurs value winning players from winning programs because those types of players have the propensity to make winning plays and have advanced basketball IQ.


https://youtu.be/3lm7Ud1H9UQ?feature=shared

Spin moves in the post, fadeaway jumpers, physical in the paint, slithers and finds angles, dribbles with his left and right… all things that would remind people of DeMar. The kid has an advanced skillset and doesn’t seem afraid of the moment. He knows damn well what he’s capable of and that kind of confidence is what the Spurs normally pursue.

[rascal]

Would you draft a slightly taller Cam Spencer with the 9th pick? That's Kneupple

How is he much different than Cam Spencer?
Same style player as Cam Spencer

[Ice009]

I don't ever remember seeing a player wear long sleeves in a game. Didn't think it was allowed?

Interesting point about Bailey and Harper. Didn't realize their team isn't very good. Doesn't mean either won't be good/great at the NBA level, but it's not very reassuring. I don't know if it means anything, though. Have there been other NBA greats who's team has done poorly in the NCAA?

[Uriel]

This is what I said about him in early February:

“Kon Knueppel
The good: best shooting stroke among all the freshmen; has the potential for true movement shooting; shooting 87% FT, 38% 3s on high rate with higher degree of difficulty than just spot ups; Surprisingly underrated defender - top 10 in freshman defensive BPR this year and moves his feet well, good positioning; 3:1 AST:TO indicates good decision-making, sometimes used as an initiator at Duke indicates playmaking potential at the next level
The bad: short (there is no way in hell he's 6'7"), stubby arms, limited athleticism. 3 point % drops off a cliff the better the competition gets, suggesting he may not be able to get his shot off against more athletic defenders at the next level (40% against trash ACC competition, 31% vs top 100 competition, 23% vs top 50 competition). If it wasn't for the athleticism concerns he might have some Desmond Bane equity, but the numbers against good teams make that a lot less likely”

I think it still holds true today - looks like Reddit is catching on to the Desmond bane comp now and I think that’s still probably his 70th percentile outcome. His vertical athleticism seems worse but his passing is more advanced relative to age. I do want to see how he does in the tournament against some better teams before I fully buy in though.
I hadn’t seen your post in February but my thoughts on him are exactly the same—especially the bad. The fact that two different people independently came to the same assessment says a lot.

And this is coming from somebody who likes Kneuppel and wants him to succeed.

[Uriel]

If we can get Kon with the Atlanta pick, I would be absolutely thrilled. But with our own pick, I think we should aim for somebody with more upside. And by that, I mean better physical tools.

[baseline bum]

I don't ever remember seeing a player wear long sleeves in a game. Didn't think it was allowed?

Interesting point about Bailey and Harper. Didn't realize their team isn't very good. Doesn't mean either won't be good/great at the NBA level, but it's not very reassuring. I don't know if it means anything, though. Have there been other NBA greats who's team has done poorly in the NCAA?

Just makes me think Ben Simmons again. That should have been such a huge red flag that the next Magic/LeBron couldn't even make the tourney when the real Magic won it all including having to go through Bird.

[Dejounte]

If we can get Kon with the Atlanta pick, I would be absolutely thrilled. But with our own pick, I think we should aim for somebody with more upside. And by that, I mean better physical tools.

Yeah, let’s get more players who have all the athletic ability with no brain between the ears like Ace or Tre Johnson. It’s like y’all haven’t learned from the low IQ nonsense we’ve been watching these past couple of years and want to keep being satisfied with players with losing tendencies because they’re capped out on basketball fundamentals. Tired of drafting losers tbh.

[Ice009]

Just makes me think Ben Simmons again. That should have been such a huge red flag that the next Magic/LeBron couldn't even make the tourney when the real Magic won it all including having to go through Bird.

OK, darn, didn't know Simmons' team (didn't even want to say his name) was that poor in college. That makes total sense how he's played as a pro. He never proved anything before entering the NBA it looks like, and has underachieved the whole time he's been in the NBA too.

[CGD]

We have had too many losses where we are bombarded by 3’s and the team can’t do anything about it.

You don’t fight 3 points with more players who can only score 2 points or does not playmake for others who can shoot the 3

You don’t defend 3 pointers with more players who aren’t that much better or smarter at defending the 3 than your current group

So whoever we get from this point forward has to meet one of the following:
1) shoot the 3 (Not learn it after several years)
2) defend the 3
3) drive and dish/ set up other 3 pt shooters

obviously newell meets none of those.

secondary need is a big who is physical and strong. Newell is more finesse than power so again, I do not see where the fit is. At best, I could see a Brandon Clarke type career for Newell and that kind of talent isn’t enough.

We need rebounding desperately. To many times teams “bombard us” (as you say) with 3s strategically since they know there’s a good chance they’ll get a second shot opportunity if/when they brick it. Was reading Asa was supposed to be one of the better rebounders this draft, though they can also get that help in FA I suppose.

[CGD]

https://youtu.be/tvakw1WaQ20?feature=shared

Insane talent

Shitty, shitty D though.

Like really bad.

[rascal]

Yeah, let’s get more players who have all the athletic ability with no brain between the ears like Ace or Tre Johnson. It’s like y’all haven’t learned from the low IQ nonsense we’ve been watching these past couple of years and want to keep being satisfied with players with losing tendencies because they’re capped out on basketball fundamentals. Tired of drafting losers tbh.

Let's keep trying to win with a less athletic team. Bailey has far more upside and is already better than Kon and is a better fit for the Spurs. Spurs are solid at guard and need more on the frontline, players who can shoot.

[Dejounte]

Shitty, shitty D though.

Like really bad.
Yeah, it was so bad that he was the anchor of the defense that held Illinois to 65 while his team scored 88 tbh.

[LeBowen]

Yeah, let’s get more players who have all the athletic ability with no brain between the ears like Ace or Tre Johnson. It’s like y’all haven’t learned from the low IQ nonsense we’ve been watching these past couple of years and want to keep being satisfied with players with losing tendencies because they’re capped out on basketball fundamentals. Tired of drafting losers tbh.

The issue is that our roster is both low IQ and unathletic. :lol

Wemby, Fox and Castle aside, everyone else is either dumb or unathletic.

Devin is an a bit above average athlete, but low IQ.
Keldon is a good athlete, but has no bball IQ whatsoever.
Jeremy is also a solid athlete, but has subpar IQ and lacks some fundamental basketball skills.

Is it a coincidence that the only positive contributors on our roster are both athletic and have positive IQ?
Barnes is still a solid athlete and obviously a smart player.
CP3 is the only exception when it comes to athleticism, but his bball IQ is probably the highest in the league alongside Lebron and Jokic.

Top teams have moved past the era of one-dimensional players. Spurs need to find players who have good understanding of the game, positive athleticism and can shoot the ball.
Easier said and done, but that's just how it works. Estimating who can translate their game to the NBA is the most difficult part of the job, but that's why front office people are paid while we just guesstimate stuff.

I don't follow college basketball that closely, but unless we get a top5 pick and someone is a must pick regardless of their position, we need to get wings who can't shoot. We dont need any more guards and we can't afford to have any more non-shooters.

[mo7888]

Let's keep trying to win with a less athletic team. Bailey has far more upside and is already better than Kon and is a better fit for the Spurs. Spurs are solid at guard and need more on the frontline, players who can shoot.

Wait... at what point are we talking about Knueppel? I like him myself, but not top 4. I assumed we are talking about where we are projected to pick.

[Dejounte]

The issue is that our roster is both low IQ and unathletic. :lol

Wemby, Fox and Castle aside, everyone else is either dumb or unathletic.

Devin is an a bit above average athlete, but low IQ.
Keldon is a good athlete, but has no bball IQ whatsoever.
Jeremy is also a solid athlete, but has subpar IQ and lacks some fundamental basketball skills.

Is it a coincidence that the only positive contributors on our roster are both athletic and have positive IQ?
Barnes is still a solid athlete and obviously a smart player.
CP3 is the only exception when it comes to athleticism, but his bball IQ is probably the highest in the league alongside Lebron and Jokic.

Top teams have moved past the era of one-dimensional players. Spurs need to find players who have good understanding of the game, positive athleticism and can shoot the ball.
Easier said and done, but that's just how it works. Estimating who can translate their game to the NBA is the most difficult part of the job, but that's why front office people are paid while we just guesstimate stuff.

I don't follow college basketball that closely, but unless we get a top5 pick and someone is a must pick regardless of their position, we need to get wings who can't shoot. We dont need any more guards and we can't afford to have any more non-shooters.
You listed two guys with the IQ I’m wishing for who are the two main reasons the team isn’t at the bottom of the standings. If we had more guys like that with even average athleticism (which comes from being younger), it would elevate the team even more. What do you think happens to this team if we added one more young Keldon, one more young Sochan, and one more young Vassell? Now what do you think happens when we add one more young Barnes and one more young Paul? The second team wins.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, let’s get more players who have all the athletic ability with no brain between the ears like Ace or Tre Johnson. It’s like y’all haven’t learned from the low IQ nonsense we’ve been watching these past couple of years and want to keep being satisfied with players with losing tendencies because they’re capped out on basketball fundamentals. Tired of drafting losers tbh.

I haven't seen any reason to think Tre Johnson has no brain between the ears. There may be issues with his game, but he seems to know what he's doing.

[rascal]

Wait... at what point are we talking about Knueppel? I like him myself, but not top 4. I assumed we are talking about where we are projected to pick.

I don't even like him inside the top 10 but especially not inside the top 4. I'm talking directly to Dejounte who likes him inside the top 4.

[objective]

Is Queen just Swanigan without the shooting?

[rascal]

The issue is that our roster is both low IQ and unathletic. :lol

Wemby, Fox and Castle aside, everyone else is either dumb or unathletic.

Devin is an a bit above average athlete, but low IQ.
Keldon is a good athlete, but has no bball IQ whatsoever.
Jeremy is also a solid athlete, but has subpar IQ and lacks some fundamental basketball skills.

Is it a coincidence that the only positive contributors on our roster are both athletic and have positive IQ?
Barnes is still a solid athlete and obviously a smart player.
CP3 is the only exception when it comes to athleticism, but his bball IQ is probably the highest in the league alongside Lebron and Jokic.

Top teams have moved past the era of one-dimensional players. Spurs need to find players who have good understanding of the game, positive athleticism and can shoot the ball.
Easier said and done, but that's just how it works. Estimating who can translate their game to the NBA is the most difficult part of the job, but that's why front office people are paid while we just guesstimate stuff.

I don't follow college basketball that closely, but unless we get a top5 pick and someone is a must pick regardless of their position, we need to get wings who can't shoot. We dont need any more guards and we can't afford to have any more non-shooters.

Sochan doesn't have a high level of NBA athleticism. Keldon and Vassel(neither are good in the open court on a break) are at best just average and Paul is too slow now at his age.

[scott]

We might be able to catch Toronto and get to 7th


That’s a fucking tall order. We have 17 games left, they have 15, and the difference in the W/L columns are 3/5.

All that matters is the win column. We're 3 ahead of them and still play them twice - so we're effectively only one game ahead of them. Definitely doable. They also have a decent shot at catching CHI for the last play-in spot. #7 can be had with some proper tank management.

[LeBowen]

You listed two guys with the IQ I’m wishing for who are the two main reasons the team isn’t at the bottom of the standings. If we had more guys like that with even average athleticism (which comes from being younger), it would elevate the team even more. What do you think happens to this team if we added one more young Keldon, one more young Sochan, and one more young Vassell? Now what do you think happens when we add one more young Barnes and one more young Paul? The second team wins.

Young Paul and Barnes were great athletes.

I'd say we need shooters who are either athletic or have high IQ.
We don't want any more Keldons, but some MPJs would be fine.

With that said, I can't say if Knueppel will be good enough.
My take is that we need to get a high end starter to pair with Barnes in free agency or via trade.
The rookie can come off the bench and push out Keldon and/or Jeremy.
rascal Jeremy isn't a great athlete vertically, but his lateral movements are good, way more important defensively.

[scott]

Yeah, let’s get more players who have all the athletic ability with no brain between the ears like Ace or Tre Johnson. It’s like y’all haven’t learned from the low IQ nonsense we’ve been watching these past couple of years and want to keep being satisfied with players with losing tendencies because they’re capped out on basketball fundamentals. Tired of drafting losers tbh.

"More"? When did we start getting these guys? The Spurs haven't drafted any athletic dumbos; their forte is the physically-limited, skill-limited dumbass that makes up the entire Power of Friendship Core.

I'm not making the argument that we SHOULD target the athletic freak, low IQ prospects (that's rascal's schtick), but I don't think it's accurate to say we've been drafting them the last few years.

[John B]

Richardson and Fears out. Next Wolf vs Queen.
Dejounte Queen is fine, but I wish he can develop his 3pt shooting. But his FT is great. He’s a big body in the paint who can help Wemby against jumbo bigs, and he can pass.

I really like what Dusty May has done with Michigan, getting both Goldin and Wolf. I like both, especially Wolf because he has a great bball mind, 7 footer 250. I don’t mean pick him up at top 10, but if somehow they draft him with Atlanta pick of at 2nd round would be great.

just the same I’m rooting for both Queen and Wolf to have a great game. Oh, and Goldin at backup C would be great at 2nd round or from non-drafted players.

[scottspurs]

If Queen was White and European he would be getting more hype. Some team will fall in love with him and he will go top 10. Hope it’s the Spurs and not the Thunder. If the Thunder get him it’s goodnight in the West.

[mo7888]

"More"? When did we start getting these guys? The Spurs haven't drafted any athletic dumbos; their forte is the physically-limited, skill-limited dumbass that makes up the entire Power of Friendship Core.

I'm not making the argument that we SHOULD target the athletic freak, low IQ prospects (that's rascal's schtick), but I don't think it's accurate to say we've been drafting them the last few years.

We prefer un-athletic dumbos.... it wouldn't be fair otherwise..

:pop:

[BackHome]

One thing I like to look is how they start the season but more importantly how they finish the season to me March is a important month as far as looking at development and potential. I really wanted to see how Knueppel played in March and so far he has exceeded my expectations he really is having a very good month he would not be a sexy pick but would not be a bad pick.

[Ice009]

If Queen was White and European he would be getting more hype. Some team will fall in love with him and he will go top 10. Hope it’s the Spurs and not the Thunder. If the Thunder get him it’s goodnight in the West.

What draft picks do the Thunder have coming from other teams?

[scottspurs]

What draft picks do the Thunder have coming from other teams?
They have the 76ers pick top 6 protected

[Dejounte]

"More"? When did we start getting these guys? The Spurs haven't drafted any athletic dumbos; their forte is the physically-limited, skill-limited dumbass that makes up the entire Power of Friendship Core.

I'm not making the argument that we SHOULD target the athletic freak, low IQ prospects (that's rascal's schtick), but I don't think it's accurate to say we've been drafting them the last few years.

If you check out my draft take on Vassell, it’s still relevant today— i wasn’t a fan because he took so many ill-advised shots in college, thinking he’s Kobe. He’s pretty much the very definition of the type of player that should be avoided in this draft. Everyone thought we had a real 3 and D guy with Vassell in that draft year, some even thought he had Kawhi-like potential. So yeah, Vassell is pretty much a dumbo.

as far as Sochan goes, he was not a dumbo but his expected skill development hasn’t caught up to equalize what he lacks. I’m not saying to go for low skill, smart guys anyway. In terms of priority: it should be IQ first, skill second, athleticism last. The group that the Spurs have collected has been picked from lower lottery or late of first round, so it’s slim pickings as far as IQ+skill guys go. Tre Jones is another guy who was productive who clearly had a higher IQ than most of the other guys, and some skill to go with it, but just not enough skill to be a mainstay on the Spurs. The Spurs need to keep going in that direction and find guys with high IQ and high skill, because it’s way more likely we’ll have a keeper than if they went the other way.

[keithington1]

Carter Bryant at the 3 with Sochan at the 4 might be the move. I’d take Bryant at 9 his hs tape is enough for me. He’s basically Jalen Johnson.

[mo7888]

Carter Bryant at the 3 with Sochan at the 4 might be the move. I’d take Bryant at 9 his hs tape is enough for me. He’s basically Jalen Johnson.

Doubt Bryant goes that high, but he should be in the discussion with the Atlanta pick.

[scott]

If you check out my draft take on Vassell, it’s still relevant today— i wasn’t a fan because he took so many ill-advised shots in college, thinking he’s Kobe. He’s pretty much the very definition of the type of player that should be avoided in this draft. Everyone thought we had a real 3 and D guy with Vassell in that draft year, some even thought he had Kawhi-like potential. So yeah, Vassell is pretty much a dumbo.

as far as Sochan goes, he was not a dumbo but his expected skill development hasn’t caught up to equalize what he lacks. I’m not saying to go for low skill, smart guys anyway. In terms of priority: it should be IQ first, skill second, athleticism last. The group that the Spurs have collected has been picked from lower lottery or late of first round, so it’s slim pickings as far as IQ+skill guys go. Tre Jones is another guy who was productive who clearly had a higher IQ than most of the other guys, and some skill to go with it, but just not enough skill to be a mainstay on the Spurs. The Spurs need to keep going in that direction and find guys with high IQ and high skill, because it’s way more likely we’ll have a keeper than if they went the other way.

We're on the same page here... I was only calling out the notion of not drafting any "more" high-athleticism, low IQ players... since we haven't drafted any of those guys. Vassell is a low-IQ, mid-athleticism guy, for example. Low-IQ, high athleticism might actually be an improvement over some of our guys :lol

[Dejounte]

We're on the same page here... I was only calling out the notion of not drafting any "more" high-athleticism, low IQ players... since we haven't drafted any of those guys. Vassell is a low-IQ, mid-athleticism guy, for example. Low-IQ, high athleticism might actually be an improvement over some of our guys :lol

For fun…
rating IQ, Skill, and Athleticism
low/mid/high are the possible grades

Vassell
Low IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Castle
Mid IQ
High Skill
High Athleticism

Wemby
Mid IQ - yeah, for the absurd shot selection
High Skill
High Athleticism

Sochan
Mid IQ
Low Skill
Mid Athleticism

Keldon
Low IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Paul
High IQ
High Skill
Low Athleticism

Barnes
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Fox
High IQ
Mid Skill
High Athleticism

[keithington1]

Doubt Bryant goes that high, but he should be in the discussion with the Atlanta pick.Could maybe trade back for some draft capital. You know Brian wants to replenish his assets.

[Dejounte]

IMO…

Flagg
Mid IQ
High Skill
High Athleticism

Harper
High IQ
High Skill
Mid Athleticism

Ace
Low IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Edgecombe
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
High Athleticism

Kon
High IQ
High Skill
Mid Athleticism

Queen
Mid IQ
High Skill
Mid Athleticism

Fleming
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
High Athleticism

Tre Johnson
Low IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Kasparas
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

CMB
High IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Egor
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Wolf
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
Low Athleticism

Riley
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Malauch
Mid IQ
Low Skill
Mid Athleticism

[mo7888]

IMO…

Flagg
Mid IQ
High Skill
High Athleticism

Harper
High IQ
High Skill
Mid Athleticism

Ace
Low IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Edgecombe
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
High Athleticism

Kon
High IQ
High Skill
Mid Athleticism

Queen
Mid IQ
High Skill
Mid Athleticism

Fleming
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
High Athleticism

Tre Johnson
Low IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Kasparas
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

CMB
High IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Egor
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Wolf
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
Low Athleticism

Riley
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Malauch
Mid IQ
Low Skill
Mid Athleticism

How are you defining skill?

[spurraider21]

You have Kon and Vassell having the same athleticism rating? On this scale kon is low athleticism

[Dejounte]

You have Kon and Vassell having the same athleticism rating? On this scale kon is low athleticism

Vassell is barely athletic enough to create any separation from his defender, so whether he jumps higher than Kon doesn’t matter. Vassell is also a twig who gets pushed around. Kon is stronger than him and can take contact.

ill answer mo later

[John B]

IMO…

Flagg
Mid IQ
High Skill
High Athleticism

Harper
High IQ
High Skill
Mid Athleticism

Ace
Low IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Edgecombe
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
High Athleticism

Kon
High IQ
High Skill
Mid Athleticism

Queen
Mid IQ
High Skill
Mid Athleticism

Fleming
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
High Athleticism

Tre Johnson
Low IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Kasparas
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

CMB
High IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Egor
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Wolf
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
Low Athleticism

Riley
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Malauch
Mid IQ
Low Skill
Mid Athleticism

Wolf
Mid IQ :lol:lol He’s probably the highest bball IQ in college basketball the way he process plays. Do you really watch him??
Mid Skill :lmao with guard skills for a 7 footer, mid skills???
Low Athleticism - this is underrated. He covers perimeter pretty well. He’s not dunking but it doesn’t mean he’s unathletic

Nice game for both Queen and Wolf. Michigan won with passing game 17 assists.
Wolf 21, 14 with 5 ORebs, 4 assists
Queen 31 pts 3 rebounds (not much for his size)

Next up Wisconsin.

[onechance87]

fleming had to lose sum value last few games.Just didnt make a difference for his team.Gotta be a late
first or second round pick.Danny wolf probably the best big over queen and fleming

[scottspurs]

Queen 31 pts, some huge buckets down the stretch and clutch free throws. Wanted the ball with the game on the line. They lost but another impressive performance

[mystargtr34]

For me the Hawks pick is coming down to Fleming or Carter Bryant. One of those two I would be happy.

With the Spurs own pick if it stays in the 8-10 range I’m leaning towards CMB.

I do like Kon but to me he’s a 2 guard and he’s gonna measure in at 6’5 without shoes with short reach. We just used a top 4 pick on a 2 guard last year, you could role with Fox-Castle-Kon sharing the 1-2 minutes but the Spurs have bigger needs. Kon will have a solid career I think.

[Uriel]

Bailey on the Spurs would be absolutely amazing. If we don't get Flagg, he would be an amazing consolation prize.

[Uriel]

Yeah, let’s get more players who have all the athletic ability with no brain between the ears like Ace or Tre Johnson. It’s like y’all haven’t learned from the low IQ nonsense we’ve been watching these past couple of years and want to keep being satisfied with players with losing tendencies because they’re capped out on basketball fundamentals. Tired of drafting losers tbh.
It's not his athleticism that's the problem, it's his size and length (or lack thereof). I do like him a lot, though. I think he's just a really good basketball player.

[CGD]

Yeah, it was so bad that he was the anchor of the defense that held Illinois to 65 while his team scored 88 tbh.

Did he though? They got the jump on Illinois early and never really looked back. The knock on him is the lateral quickness on that side, which will be a problem in the NBA. But, like a Sengun, the offensive talent is undeniable.

[John B]

Did he though? They got the jump on Illinois early and never really looked back. The knock on him is the lateral quickness on that side, which will be a problem in the NBA. But, like a Sengun, the offensive talent is undeniable.

I really don’t mind Queen. The Spurs desperately need a big body inside. He kinda remind me of Z-Bo, big body slightly undersized but can bully inside. He shoots 70% FT so hopefully that translates to long range. He got two from downtown tonight

[rankingtear]

Carter Bryant and Hugo Gonzales should be the picks. Dynamic players who are impactful without anything built around them.

[Thomas82]

How are we feeling about Asa Newell? I get the duplication with Sochan, but seems to be another heady, big motor type, who plays D and boards. Latter are definitely needs.

Yes, the questions about the shot, but looks like he’s shooting 75% from FT. Maybe workable over the years?

He's at the top of my wish list.

[cutewizard]

How about coaches

Tactics
Strategy
Team management
Game adjustment
Offense
Defense

[cutewizard]

This shows High IQ for Castle


https://youtu.be/Oe2RzmxVzNU?si=JTBTJaJAQAXIU9Pd

[Dejounte]

How are you defining skill?

IQ is decision-making when the score is close, knowing when to be assertive and when to pass, shot tendencies, when to close out, when to foul, know how to use angles, knowing when to gamble for steals and not overdoing it

Skill is the number of ways one could score, footwork on offense, ballhandling ability, blocking without fouling, defending without fouling, defensive footwork against the ballhandler’s first step, pass anticipation on defense, making a pass no one else sees

Athleticism is how well they can create separation, how well they can take contact, whether they have absurd wingsize or standing reach that aids them in-game, lateral movement that gives the ability to stay in front of their man on defense, defensive versatility

with that said, I know you’re bringing this up because of Ace and it’s a list I made in five minutes. I’ll slightly adjust the one for Ace and maybe others later.

Ace
Low IQ
High Skill
Mid Athleticism

Do your own list for funsies mo7888 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=43104)

[Dejounte]

You too SpursBills because I love seeing your draft takes

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/AetGb7Jc8NQ?feature=shared spurraider21

this showcases why Kon’s athleticism is on par or better than Vassell’s

apparently Kon holds guys to 24% which I didn’t know. I knew he was an exceptional defender, just did not research how good on the stats side.

[SpursBills]

IMO…

Flagg
Mid IQ
High Skill
High Athleticism

Harper
High IQ
High Skill
Mid Athleticism

Ace
Low IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Edgecombe
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
High Athleticism

Kon
High IQ
High Skill
Mid Athleticism

Queen
Mid IQ
High Skill
Mid Athleticism

Fleming
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
High Athleticism

Tre Johnson
Low IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Kasparas
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

CMB
High IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Egor
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Wolf
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
Low Athleticism

Riley
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Malauch
Mid IQ
Low Skill
Mid Athleticism

I don’t have too many issues with this.

Flagg and CMB are the two highest IQ defenders in this draft by a pretty significant margin I think. At the same time Flagg still has some issues with his handle relative to his size when you compare him to, say, college Tatum so I’d probably say he’s high IQ and medium skill.

KJ and Demin have major issues getting separation, especially Demin so I think his athleticism might be low.

Fleming - doesn’t have much of a handle or shot creation, and his 3s are almost exclusively catch and shoot, so he may actually be low skill although that’s not a high conviction take

The others I don’t have a strong opinion on or I don’t know enough about them to comment

[rjv]

I’d rather take Richardson than Kon.

[Dejounte]

Made adjustments… even throwing John B (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=42719) a bone here

Flagg
High IQ
Mid Skill
High Athleticism

Harper
High IQ
High Skill
Mid Athleticism

Ace
Low IQ
High Skill
Mid Athleticism

Edgecombe
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
High Athleticism

Kon
High IQ
High Skill
Mid Athleticism

Queen
Mid IQ
High Skill
Low Athleticism

Fleming
Mid IQ
Low Skill
High Athleticism

Tre Johnson
Low IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Kasparas
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

CMB
High IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Egor
High IQ
Mid Skill
Low Athleticism

Wolf
High IQ
Mid Skill
Low Athleticism

Riley
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Malauch
Mid IQ
Low Skill
High Athleticism

Carter Bryant
Low IQ
Mid Skill
High Athleticism

Newell
Low IQ
Low Skill
Mid Athleticism

de Larrea
Mid IQ
High Skill
Low Athleticism

Jase Richardson
High IQ
High Skill
Low Athleticism

[ginobilized]

Kon is growing on me. Another plus defender would be so helpful.

[BackHome]

So far Kon - March basketball play has earned him a lot of money he just had a very good game for Duke without Flagg 17pts and 8 rebounds in a very close game.

[Dejounte]

I’d rather take Richardson than Kon.

I actually really, really like Richardson. His size gives me Dillingham-like concerns though. But the more I watch, the more I see that he’s a sneaky defender like young Chris Paul. Chris Paul would be the perfect mentor for him. He offers no defensive versatility for the whole team though (like he couldn’t be matched up with guys much bigger than him for very long), which is why I rate him low on my Athleticism scale.

if the Spurs stay around the 10th pick, then I would not hate that pick at all. Kon would be gone by then, I believe. I like him much more than Fears.

on a side note, I like Carter Bryant much more than Newell.

[BackHome]

I’d rather take Richardson than Kon.

Richardson is having a Great month of basketball really dominating the whole month so far, but if we had not traded for Fox I would have considered him with our first pick but things have changed.

[John B]

Made adjustments… even throwing John B (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=42719) a bone here

Flagg
High IQ
Mid Skill
High Athleticism

Harper
High IQ
High Skill
Mid Athleticism

Ace
Low IQ
High Skill
Mid Athleticism

Edgecombe
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
High Athleticism

Kon
High IQ
High Skill
Mid Athleticism

Queen
Mid IQ
High Skill
Low Athleticism

Fleming
Mid IQ
Low Skill
High Athleticism

Kasparas
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

CMB
High IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Egor
High IQ
Mid Skill
Low Athleticism

Wolf
High IQ
Mid Skill
Low Athleticism

Malauch
Mid IQ
Low Skill
High Athleticism

Carter Bryant
Mid IQ
Mid Skill
High Athleticism

Newell
Mid IQ
Low Skill
High Athleticism

I have no problem with this selection. After the Top 4 which is the BPA, I would prioritize a BIG who can help Wemby in the paint, Queen, Wolf, Sorber. If I could get Goldin in the 2nd round or from undrafted would be great.

[Dejounte]

I have no problem with this selection. After the Top 4 which is the BPA, I would prioritize a BIG who can help Wemby in the paint, Queen, Wolf, Sorber. If I could get Goldin in the 2nd round or from undrafted would be great.

You don’t say “BPA after the top 4” and then say “I would go for a big” after… those statements contradict each other. :)

[mo7888]

IQ is decision-making when the score is close, knowing when to be assertive and when to pass, shot tendencies, when to close out, when to foul, know how to use angles, knowing when to gamble for steals and not overdoing it

Skill is the number of ways one could score, footwork on offense, ballhandling ability, blocking without fouling, defending without fouling, defensive footwork against the ballhandler’s first step, pass anticipation on defense, making a pass no one else sees

Athleticism is how well they can create separation, how well they can take contact, whether they have absurd wingsize or standing reach that aids them in-game, lateral movement that gives the ability to stay in front of their man on defense, defensive versatility

with that said, I know you’re bringing this up because of Ace and it’s a list I made in five minutes. I’ll slightly adjust the one for Ace and maybe others later.

Ace
Low IQ
High Skill
Mid Athleticism

Do your own list for funsies mo7888 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=43104)

I gotcha... I was actually asking because of Kasparas. He's the best pick n roll guy in this draft. Nobody makes the pass to the roll guy like he can....so I was curious of your criteria..

I'll do a list on the players you did to see how they compare. It may be a few hours before I get to it though...

[exstatic]

You don’t say “BPA after the top 4” and then say “I would go for a big” after… those statements contradict each other. :)

Eliminate the phrase ‘Which is the BPA,” and see if it reads any differently.

[Dejounte]

Eliminate the phrase ‘Which is the BPA,” and see if it reads any differently.

Well, I have no problem admitting if I read that wrong tbh

[scott]

I think this IQ/Skill/Athleticism approach Dejounte (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=51342) and I think the key is getting a guy who is high in at least one of those categories and having at least mid IQ.

I'd rather avoid guys who are all mids in the upper end of the lottery because they are... well, mid. Once you get to the back half of the lotto and beyond, you just gotta take what you can get I guess.

[heyheymymy]

Warming up to Kon as well. Wasn't sure at first he would translate to the NBA or if the Duke situation was masking for him to a degree. He does seem to have some intrinsics that could be special. Spurs do need what he does best.

[Russ]

I think this IQ/Skill/Athleticism approach Dejounte (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=51342) and I think the key is getting a guy who is high in at least one of those categories and having at least mid IQ.

I might add one additional factor -- motor.

[mo7888]

IQ is decision-making when the score is close, knowing when to be assertive and when to pass, shot tendencies, when to close out, when to foul, know how to use angles, knowing when to gamble for steals and not overdoing it

Skill is the number of ways one could score, footwork on offense, ballhandling ability, blocking without fouling, defending without fouling, defensive footwork against the ballhandler’s first step, pass anticipation on defense, making a pass no one else sees

Athleticism is how well they can create separation, how well they can take contact, whether they have absurd wingsize or standing reach that aids them in-game, lateral movement that gives the ability to stay in front of their man on defense, defensive versatility

with that said, I know you’re bringing this up because of Ace and it’s a list I made in five minutes. I’ll slightly adjust the one for Ace and maybe others later.

Ace
Low IQ
High Skill
Mid Athleticism

Do your own list for funsies mo7888 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=43104)

Flagg
High IQ
Mid Skill
High Athleticism

Harper
High IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Ace
Low IQ
High Skill
Mid Athleticism

Edgecombe
Mid IQ
Mid Skill (but progressing)
High Athleticism

Kon
High IQ
High Skill
Mid Athleticism

Queen
Mid IQ
High Skill
Low Athleticism

Fleming
Mid IQ
Low Skill
High Athleticism

Kasparas
Mid IQ
High Skill
Mid Athleticism

CMB
High IQ
Mid Skill
Mid Athleticism

Egor
High IQ
Mid Skill (I'd go higher if he could shoot)
Low Athleticism

Wolf
High IQ
Mid Skill
Low Athleticism

Malauch
Mid IQ
Low Skill
High Athleticism

Carter Bryant
Mid IQ (IQ and Skill are tough for me here because his mind is child-like to me..he's progressing and I project that he'll get there on at least skill)
Mid Skill
High Athleticism

Newell
Mid IQ
Low Skill
High Athleticism

[stnick2261]

These updated IQ/Skill/Ath lists that ya'll are doing are coincidentally lining up with who I want to draft (all of the High IQ players):

Flagg, Harper, Kon, Egor, Wolf, and McNeeley (although McNeeley is not on y'alls lists)... all depending on where we end up.

EDIT: I just feel so done with dumb players.

[spurraider21]

I don’t have too many issues with this.

Flagg and CMB are the two highest IQ defenders in this draft by a pretty significant margin I think. At the same time Flagg still has some issues with his handle relative to his size when you compare him to, say, college Tatum so I’d probably say he’s high IQ and medium skill.

KJ and Demin have major issues getting separation, especially Demin so I think his athleticism might be low.

Fleming - doesn’t have much of a handle or shot creation, and his 3s are almost exclusively catch and shoot, so he may actually be low skill although that’s not a high conviction take

The others I don’t have a strong opinion on or I don’t know enough about them to comment
Fleming is definitely low skill on offense imo. He seems to have a solid catch and shoot 3pt shot. he is solid at making off-ball cuts and is a solid roll man. if he's not finishing with authority at the rim, his touch is quite poor. and yeah... handles, passing, shot creation, shot variety, all low tier. but hes still a very active defender and physical rebounder. for a team like us that is miserable at boxing out, he actually does so quite well

id say he's medium IQ and low skill on offense, while being medium IQ and medium skill on defense. despite his size, he moves on the perimeter pretty well and defends guys smaller than him quite a bit

there are a lot of holes to pick in his game, i just think for what the spurs need from a complementary big to victor, he is worth the shot. we've seen sochan mesh better with victor by playing closer to the rim, more of a cutter and restricted area finisher. transition lob threat when vic runs the preak. we need less of a facilitator/handler. and then defensively, somebody who can comfortably defend on the perimeter, but can also be a good weakside helper if vic has to contest a shot, somebody to help vic out and secure rebounds, etc

[spurraider21]

btw Queen and Wolf playing each other was quite entertaining. neither could really slow the other. and neither provides much at all on help defense.

[CGD]

btw Queen and Wolf playing each other was quite entertaining. neither could really slow the other. and neither provides much at all on help defense.

Precisely

[John B]

I would add Thomas Sorber on this list, 6-10 big dominant, can pass, rebound, block and should stretch his shooting outside the arc

[RC_Drunkford]

Knueppel is definitely better than McNeeley. The only issue I have is his size. He‘s an SG and we already have 2. Having any of them play SF would have us playing undersized when size should be one of our advantages. I wouldn‘t be mad if we draft him though.

[Dejounte]

Knueppel is definitely better than McNeeley. The only issue I have is his size. He‘s an SG and we already have 2. Having any of them play SF would have us playing undersized when size should be one of our advantages. I wouldn‘t be mad if we draft him though.

OKC consistently plays 1-3 with players 6’6” and below, sometimes even 1-4. How do they get away with it?

[RC_Drunkford]

OKC consistently plays 1-3 with players 6’6” and below, sometimes even 1-4. How do they get away with it?

I mean trading Vassell would solve it. Also we don’t need a back up PG cause Castle can play that, so you could have 3 SGs in the rotation. I‘d just like to have a positional size advantage

[rascal]

OKC consistently plays 1-3 with players 6’6” and below, sometimes even 1-4. How do they get away with it?

Players with athleticism.

[Russ]

I would add Thomas Sorber on this list, 6-10 big dominant, can pass, rebound, block and should stretch his shooting outside the arc

:toast

The bargain big?

Could be as good or better than the others.

[SpursBills]

OKC consistently plays 1-3 with players 6’6” and below, sometimes even 1-4. How do they get away with it?

Interesting question. My best answer to this is that "positional size" does not refer to just height, and that OKC's case it refers to length. It actually makes a lot of sense in the context of their defense, which prioritizes speed and turnover generation - generally shorter players have a lower center of gravity, can hold their base better, and are quicker. To compensate, they have a ton of length which also increases their standing reach. If you look at the guys they play - Dort, SGA, JDub, Cason Wallace, these guys are all +5 or more wingspan, and Dub is like +8 or 9, giving them a taller "effective height". Caruso is the only guy without an absurd ape index and he's a top 5 perimeter defender. This is also why CMB to the Thunder is like one of my worst-case draft scenarios, as he would slot in perfectly as a long-term IHart replacement and give them the physicality and strength next to Chet that they were looking for before this year without giving up length - rumored to have a 7'2" wingspan.

[mystargtr34]

Interesting question. My best answer to this is that "positional size" does not refer to just height, and that OKC's case it refers to length. It actually makes a lot of sense in the context of their defense, which prioritizes speed and turnover generation - generally shorter players have a lower center of gravity, can hold their base better, and are quicker. To compensate, they have a ton of length which also increases their standing reach. If you look at the guys they play - Dort, SGA, JDub, Cason Wallace, these guys are all +5 or more wingspan, and Dub is like +8 or 9, giving them a taller "effective height". Caruso is the only guy without an absurd ape index and he's a top 5 perimeter defender. This is also why CMB to the Thunder is like one of my worst-case draft scenarios, as he would slot in perfectly as a long-term IHart replacement and give them the physicality and strength next to Chet that they were looking for before this year without giving up length - rumored to have a 7'2" wingspan.

I was going to post similar thoughts!!

If the Thunder get the 7th pick I actually think they will take CMB. They are a bit short on those 6’7 - 6’8 guys.

[SpursBills]

I was going to post similar thoughts!!

If the Thunder get the 7th pick I actually think they will take CMB. They are a bit short on those 6’7 - 6’8 guys.

I think height is actually very overrated as far as defense goes, both in perimeter and interior defense. The only thing it's good for is seeing over defenders when you're a high level passer, and maybe in theory directing traffic if you're able to see over people. But as a defender, things like wingspan, standing reach (same concept), speed, athleticism, and strength matter a lot more. Robert Williams was considered way too short for a center at 6'8 without shoes but had a 7'6" wingspan and the standing reach of a guy much taller. But until injuries diminished him, he was probably one of the 3 best rim protectors in the league during the 2022-2023 season while still being able to switch out on the perimeter. Ben Wallace - 6'9, 7'2.5 wingspan, great interior defender. I would say generally the taller you are the harder it is to move fast, so you almost want someone who's got a lower center of gravity but who can still get to errant passes or disrupt shots.

[Mr. Body]

Texas somehow makes the tournament despite having a shitty season. BYU, Baylor also make it. Texas will play Illinois in their first game I believe.

[Russ]

Texas somehow makes the tournament despite having a shitty season. . . . Texas will play Illinois in their first game I believe.

Actually, Texas will play Illinois in their second game (if there even is a second game).

[Mr. Body]

Actually, Texas will play Illinois in their second game (if there even is a second game).

That's right. Xavier/Texas for the play-in game.

[Dejounte]

Changing everyday…

Tier 1 - No brainer
Flagg
Harper


Tier 2 - Oozing talent
Kon
VJ Edgecombe
Jase Richardson


Tier 3a - i like the fit better than 3b
Fleming
Carter Bryant


Tier 3b - Bad fit, but talent is there
Bailey
Tre Johnson
Queen
CMB
Wolf


Tier 4a- Has displayed less than 4b, but I prefer gambling on the unknown than the known in 4b
Saraf
De Larrea
Demin
Noa


Tier 4b- Safe picks
Riley
Kasparas
Maluach


Tier 5 - I wouldn’t understand these picks for the Spurs
Asa Newell
Fears
Traore
Hugo


Tier 6 - Bust
McNeeley

[Dejounte]

SpursBills (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=18470) is going to hate this but the reason I feel CMB and Wolf are bad fits is because they their game is predicated on pounding the ball for more than a few seconds before making a decision what to do next and I think we need players who make quicker decisions than that. All of those seconds with the ball are going to go to Wemby, Fox, and Castle.

with Wolf, it’s a little different because I feel like he’d occupy the same spaces that Wemby does and that would be bad.

Ace would fit well on offense because he’s like Klay or Markkanen, he would throw it up on one or two dribbles. He’s way less efficient though. The reason I feel Ace is a bad fit is because of how thin and frail he is, and we need way more physicality.

TJ… I just think a tough shot maker isn’t high on the priority list.

[Dejounte]

I will also concede that there’s never enough tape to watch to change my mind on how I’m viewing these players. Right now, CMB reminds me of the Luka Samanic experience. Luka would pound the ball a little bit in the post, do a post move and score too. They kind of play the same way and I kind of wonder if the Spurs do not favor that kind of playstyle (because of how disruptive it is to the pacing on offense) unless they’re a bonafide star.

[ginobilized]

After the tourney, I'm sure things will start to clarify and reorder.

Today, I'd be happy with Fleming and Essengue, though there are other options depending on lottery order. Fleming might be a reach with our highest pick and could be gone by our second pick. BPA might exclude Fleming. Essengue would be a project with a lot of upside.

Adding one of either Naz Reid/Santi Aldama/Yabusele and grabbing LaRavia while losing CP3, Branham, and trading KJ/Vassell would be a dream scenario. I doubt the Spurs would ever allow this much off-season player movement to happen, however.

I hope we don't grab another undersized SG, but, that seems like it's our historical pattern.

[R. DeMurre]

I think height is actually very overrated as far as defense goes, both in perimeter and interior defense. The only thing it's good for is seeing over defenders when you're a high level passer, and maybe in theory directing traffic if you're able to see over people. But as a defender, things like wingspan, standing reach (same concept), speed, athleticism, and strength matter a lot more. Robert Williams was considered way too short for a center at 6'8 without shoes but had a 7'6" wingspan and the standing reach of a guy much taller. But until injuries diminished him, he was probably one of the 3 best rim protectors in the league during the 2022-2023 season while still being able to switch out on the perimeter. Ben Wallace - 6'9, 7'2.5 wingspan, great interior defender. I would say generally the taller you are the harder it is to move fast, so you almost want someone who's got a lower center of gravity but who can still get to errant passes or disrupt shots.

Rodman, Draymond, and Kawhi are beneficiaries of that body type too... Rodman is especially notable, doing what he did with the height and weight of a SG or a slightly undersized SF!

[John B]

Rodman, Draymond, and Kawhi are beneficiaries of that body type too... Rodman is especially notable, doing what he did with the height and weight of a SG or a slightly undersized SF!

Rodman was in a different era, where today’s modern NBA prefers a stretch 4. Draymond benefited from having the two best shooters in the league that pulls defenders out. In the case of Sochan, the Spurs are already challenged with inconsistent shooters.

[scott]

After the tourney, I'm sure things will start to clarify and reorder.

Today, I'd be happy with Fleming and Essengue, though there are other options depending on lottery order. Fleming might be a reach with our highest pick and could be gone by our second pick. BPA might exclude Fleming. Essengue would be a project with a lot of upside.

Adding one of either Naz Reid/Santi Aldama/Yabusele and grabbing LaRavia while losing CP3, Branham, and trading KJ/Vassell would be a dream scenario. I doubt the Spurs would ever allow this much off-season player movement to happen, however.

I hope we don't grab another undersized SG, but, that seems like it's our historical pattern.

This is my concern. The Spurs just simply do not move with the Organizational Velocity needed to change this roster. I can dig up the thread, but one time I looked at historical roster continuity and the Spurs consistently had a high degree of continuity since the Pop era began. Simply put: the Spurs don't like a lot of change at once.

We're probably looking at fewer roster changes this offseason than most of us want. I'm just preparing myself for that now.

[rjv]

^^I’m not sure that juxtaposing two drastically different eras makes for a good enough comparison to draw that kind of conclusion.

[SpursBills]

SpursBills (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=18470) is going to hate this but the reason I feel CMB and Wolf are bad fits is because they their game is predicated on pounding the ball for more than a few seconds before making a decision what to do next and I think we need players who make quicker decisions than that. All of those seconds with the ball are going to go to Wemby, Fox, and Castle.

with Wolf, it’s a little different because I feel like he’d occupy the same spaces that Wemby does and that would be bad.

Ace would fit well on offense because he’s like Klay or Markkanen, he would throw it up on one or two dribbles. He’s way less efficient though. The reason I feel Ace is a bad fit is because of how thin and frail he is, and we need way more physicality.

TJ… I just think a tough shot maker isn’t high on the priority list.

It's a legitimate concern and I had the same thought on some possessions, but on others you actually see him make some very quick decisions.

Here's a sample game against Texas A&M this year, passing/turnover highlights start from 2:04

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o0RKZCEohY

First three possessions - ball definitely doesn't stick, he touches the ball for < 1 second before finding the open man for either a 3 or missed layup
2:30 - tries an in and out dribble, surveys the court, finds the open man for a 3 - possessions like these are what I'm assuming you're referring to
2:39 - gets a pass on the fast break, touch pass back which Thomas wasn't ready for, turnover
2:47 - gets doubled instantly in the post, dribbles out, finds the open man for a 3, clank
2:54 - another possession where he surveys the court for a few seconds, tries a jab step, then passes off the ball
3:02 - gets the ball and gets stripped, turnover
3:09 - PNR, gets the ball on the short roll and instantly finds the wide open man for a 3
3:20 - fast break, finds the cutter along the baseline who loses it
3:28 - corrals the lose ball, instantly spins and finds the wide open man for a 3

Best pass of that same game was actually from this clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCCAEYSPpOM
1:41 - Jokic-style volleyball touch pass for wide open 3

I do wonder also if this year since South Carolina's team is so bad and he's responsible for a ton of their offense, that he gets put in a position where he's getting the ball at the free throw line extended / 3 point line / low post trying to make something happen. The nice thing is that you know for sure that he scales down to a smaller usage role, as you have an entire years' worth of film from his age 18 season last year where he was acting much more as a connector.

[stnick2261]

^^I’m not sure that juxtaposing two drastically different eras makes for a good enough comparison to draw that kind of conclusion.

Two drastically different eras with the same people in charge.

[scott]

^^I’m not sure that juxtaposing two drastically different eras makes for a good enough comparison to draw that kind of conclusion.

The Spurs have maintained their high degree of Roster Continuity even during this playoff drought. Going into this season, we brought back 80% (12 of 15) of our roster, who played 85% of last season's minutes (what I've defined as the "reverse continuity rate" in the other thread, which I will bump shortly).

We'll actually have our lowest continuity rate since 2009-10 (defined as % of this season's minutes filled by players who were on last year's roster) by virtue of our 3 additions (CP3, Barnes and Castle) actually being the 3 guys who lead our team in minutes this year (and by adding Fox midseason).

Even while we've been bad, we still have had minimal roster turnover. The team could definitely change course, but if they do it would be a departure from their recent approach to the roster.

[ambchang]

Players with athleticism.

Just can’t agree with this one at all. Who’s so athletic on the OKC roster who’s getting g significant minutes? Shai isn’t particularly athletic, neither is J-Dub. Cason Wallace is a Mya e but nothing outstanding. Sort is very strong but not exceptionally quick or runs and jumps. Caruso is a plus athlete but again not outstanding. Chet is quick for a player his size but not strong at all. Hartenstein is a decent enough athlete I guess but again nothing special in nba terms. In fact, OKC is the team that destroys your long held stance that athleticism is a must in :lol today’s nba. They just have a system that requires players getting to the right spots and knowing their roles and so them well.

There are definitely plus players, Shai and J-dub would be good players anywhere in any system, Hartenstein was doing well with NY, Chet is obviously a star if he can stay healthy. But the other guys are role players in every definition, but they have clear roles.

[scott]

Just can’t agree with this one at all. Who’s so athletic on the OKC roster who’s getting g significant minutes? Shai isn’t particularly athletic, neither is J-Dub. Cason Wallace is a Mya e but nothing outstanding. Sort is very strong but not exceptionally quick or runs and jumps. Caruso is a plus athlete but again not outstanding. Chet is quick for a player his size but not strong at all. Hartenstein is a decent enough athlete I guess but again nothing special in nba terms. In fact, OKC is the team that destroys your long held stance that athleticism is a must in :lol today’s nba. They just have a system that requires players getting to the right spots and knowing their roles and so them well.

There are definitely plus players, Shai and J-dub would be good players anywhere in any system, Hartenstein was doing well with NY, Chet is obviously a star if he can stay healthy. But the other guys are role players in every definition, but they have clear roles.

rascal's ideal team is the Portland Trailblazers. Look how well it's worked out for them!

[cutewizard]

This is my concern. The Spurs just simply do not move with the Organizational Velocity needed to change this roster. I can dig up the thread, but one time I looked at historical roster continuity and the Spurs consistently had a high degree of continuity since the Pop era began. Simply put: the Spurs don't like a lot of change at once.

We're probably looking at fewer roster changes this offseason than most of us want. I'm just preparing myself for that now.


,..............

Maybe the Spurs adjust a little because of the presence of Wemby good Sir?
Accelerate a little bit?

[Mr. Body]

Last year they clearly said they wanted to see what worked with Wemby, so not sure why the expectation was big roster changes at that point.

This year the priority was to add veterans.

Neither suggests anything for the coming summer. We'll see.

[John B]

Last year they clearly said they wanted to see what worked with Wemby, so not sure why the expectation was big roster changes at that point.

This year the priority was to add veterans.

Neither suggests anything for the coming summer. We'll see.

Wemby didn’t plan on having the 1st two years of his NBA career like this. He will come back pissed for not getting the DPOY, and still haven’t taken his team to the playoffs. The FO will cater to all his wishes not to disappoint their franchise player. The Spurs will be ALL IN without leaving any stones unturned! If there’s a trade available for a big help, a KD or Nazr I expect the Spurs to be in the mix. If it’s bidding for Myles Turner, I expect the Spurs to be there. I don’t see anybody untouchable except Wemby, Fox and Castle, Spurs 2025 FRP’s, Atlanta’s and future FRP’s. Everyone and everything else goes. As soon as Wemby is cleared, Spurs will be turning the whole boat around!

[stnick2261]

Last year they clearly said they wanted to see what worked with Wemby, so not sure why the expectation was big roster changes at that point.

This year the priority was to add veterans.

Neither suggests anything for the coming summer. We'll see.

By this summer, they should know what works with Wemby. They should have an idea of who to target and be aggressive and willing to slightly overpay to get it.

[ginobilized]

I'm seeing Carter Bryant getting more love in mock drafts. I haven't seen him play. Would he be a good choice with ATL's pick?
He's got a good looking shot, great lob passer and defensively a huge plus. Seems pretty Spursian at first glance.

[scott]

By this summer, they should know what works with Wemby. They should have an idea of who to target and be aggressive and willing to slightly overpay to get it.

Get ready for “Devin and Keldon had a real nice stretch after the all star break, so we want to see how they fit with the team this season”

[Dejounte]

I'm seeing Carter Bryant getting more love in mock drafts. I haven't seen him play. Would he be a good choice with ATL's pick?
He's got a good looking shot, great lob passer and defensively a huge plus. Seems pretty Spursian at first glance.

It would be a “wait three years” type of pick

[scott]

It would be a “wait three years” type of pick

Aligns with our timeline, we should have finally figured out if Devin and Keldon are long term fits or not by their their 8th and 9th seasons :lol

[KobesAchilles]

I have a lot of questions about fit with this draft. We have 3 building blocks in Castle, Fox, and Wemby. Now what we need is shooting. Like a lot of shooting. And an athletic rebounder would be nice as well. I wonder how all in the Spurs are this offseason. They need to know that we have officially started our window and the time to make big FA acquisitions is while Wemby is still cheap. We are paying him $13 million a year. Soon he will cost $50 million a year which is still a steal for him.

Fox is one max spot taken. Castle is cheap and so is Wemby. We have the cap space for another max slot (if we make some moves) and do we go after Naz Reid? Do we take a flier on Julius Randle? Or maybe Portis? Do we really want a guard in this draft? You would think the Spurs are going with the 6’8 and taller mindset going forward in this draft. And who would that even apply to. I haven’t even really looked at this draft that deeply but I don’t want any guards this year.

It’s a big year for Wright. He’s been gold this year. One more solid offseason and we could be set up for the next half decade and that includes coach. It’s scary having the future all on the line this offseason. But if we make zero moves, draft meh picks, and keep Pop as a coach then I’m going to act like the apocalypse just hit the FO

[LeBowen]

I don't want another max contract, there don't seem to be any realistic targets worth going for. Maybe KD for Keldon+Devin, but that's unlikely to happen.
Looking at the best teams in the league, we need to load up on high end role players, mainly 3-D wings.
Wemby and Fox will be good for 50 every night, we need to spread out the rest.

[stnick2261]

Get ready for “Devin and Keldon had a real nice stretch after the all star break, so we want to see how they fit with the team this season”

You just made me sad

[Kevin]

Yeah not sure the Suns would want so much long term salary with Dev+KJ. They would probably prefer KJ/Barnes/Wesley/Mal with them waiving Mal and Blake immediately.

As I've said before the Spurs are done star hunting (thank god). They need to be elite role player hunting while trying to dump Dev and KJ neither of whom play winning basketball. Its not entirely their fault's since winning has never been fully prioritized or prioritized at all during their tenures with the Spurs.

If Dev has a repeat of this season next year his value is neutral at best.

[scott]

I have a lot of questions about fit with this draft. We have 3 building blocks in Castle, Fox, and Wemby. Now what we need is shooting. Like a lot of shooting. And an athletic rebounder would be nice as well. I wonder how all in the Spurs are this offseason. They need to know that we have officially started our window and the time to make big FA acquisitions is while Wemby is still cheap. We are paying him $13 million a year. Soon he will cost $50 million a year which is still a steal for him.

Fox is one max spot taken. Castle is cheap and so is Wemby. We have the cap space for another max slot (if we make some moves) and do we go after Naz Reid? Do we take a flier on Julius Randle? Or maybe Portis? Do we really want a guard in this draft? You would think the Spurs are going with the 6’8 and taller mindset going forward in this draft. And who would that even apply to. I haven’t even really looked at this draft that deeply but I don’t want any guards this year.

It’s a big year for Wright. He’s been gold this year. One more solid offseason and we could be set up for the next half decade and that includes coach. It’s scary having the future all on the line this offseason. But if we make zero moves, draft meh picks, and keep Pop as a coach then I’m going to act like the apocalypse just hit the FO

What a fantastic, sober post. I wish I could force all Spurs fans to read and acknowledge this, because it is really straight forward. However, there is a large proportion of the fanbase that believes our championship starting lineup is set in Fox/Castle/Vassell/Sochan/Wemby with KJ as our 6th man and two rookies coming in. It's honestly kind of disgusting and I can only hope the FO isn't on the same drugs as these fans.

[mystargtr34]

I feel like the top 10-12 of the draft is starting to take shape.

1. Flagg
2. Harper
3/4. VJ/Ace
5/6/7/8/9. Tre/Queen/Maluach/Kon/Jaku
10/11/12. CMB/Fears/Richardson

I think there’s a drop off to the next group after that from 13-20.

The only ‘problem’ for the Spurs is out of the 8 guys in that 5-12 range all but 1 (CMB) are centers or guards which aren’t really Spurs biggest needs.

[cutewizard]

https://youtu.be/wmKx6I5akTg?si=hTu_z7zo7rUgtkKH

[cutewizard]

https://youtu.be/ZrjAmpeXOgA?si=nDk5ar2BqUQ_1qXn

[mo7888]

I'm seeing Carter Bryant getting more love in mock drafts. I haven't seen him play. Would he be a good choice with ATL's pick?
He's got a good looking shot, great lob passer and defensively a huge plus. Seems pretty Spursian at first glance.

He'd be a solid pick there..

[mystargtr34]

Updated mock from Sam Vecenie.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6209187/2025/03/19/2025-cooper-flagg-nba-draft/

The only three mocks I take much interest in are Vecenie, Wasserman from bleacher report, and Givony.

[scott]

Updated mock from Sam Vecenie.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6209187/2025/03/19/2025-cooper-flagg-nba-draft/

The only three mocks I take much interest in are Vecenie, Wasserman from bleacher report, and Givony.

Can you hook those of us outside of the paywall up with the highlights?

[mystargtr34]

1. Utah Jazz

Cooper Flagg | 6-9 forward | 18 years old | Duke

Flagg emerged during ACC play as a dominant two-way force beyond even the lofty expectations that were laid at his feet entering this season.

From New Year’s Eve onward over 19 games, Flagg averaged 21.4 points, seven rebounds, five assists, 1.5 steals, 1.3 blocks and shot 54.2 percent from the field, 45.7 percent from 3 and 87.4 percent from the line. Whereas Zion Williamson was a dominant wrecking ball for whom college players had no answer, Flagg is more methodical and well-rounded in his dominance. He gets to his spots with ease. He’s an elite transition player as well as a versatile half-court force who can play on or off the ball and attack mismatches both big and small. Coming into the year, the jumper was a question. It no longer is after he shot 37 percent from 3 and 83 percent from the line as an 18-year-old. He can get to pull-ups from all three levels and finishes at the rim with serious bounce and polish. Defensively, he’s a tremendous playmaker and flies around all over the place in help. More than anything, what stands out is his elite level of competitiveness. There is not a second in which he’s on the court that he’s not playing hard or totally locked into what he’s doing.

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Now, all eyes turn to his ankle, which he injured in the ACC tournament against Georgia Tech. The expectation is that he’ll be ready to play this weekend, including in a potentially mouth-watering NBA prospect matchup between him and V.J. Edgecombe in the second round if Baylor can get past Mississippi State. Hopefully the week off has Flagg ready to play, because Duke has been the best team in the country for about two months. It would be a shame if his ankle injury causes the Blue Devils to not reach their potential.

What You Should Read Next
NCAA Tournament East Region analysis: Can anyone slow down Cooper Flagg and Duke?
NCAA Tournament East Region analysis: Can anyone slow down Cooper Flagg and Duke?
Duke is the clear favorite, but Alabama is one of the best offensive teams in the nation and capable of returning to the Final Four.
2. Washington Wizards

Dylan Harper | 6-6 guard | 19 years old | Rutgers

Harper’s team did not make the NCAA Tournament field, but that was not his doing. He was dominant this year, averaging 19.4 points, 4.6 rebounds and four assists per game. He shot 48 percent from the field and consistently created paint touches and looks at the rim. His ability to get downhill is remarkably impressive within this class. Defensively, he competes and is tough at the point of attack at 6-6. The pull-up jumper really remains the one question mark, as it was not wildly efficient this season. However, Harper is an elite player, and most NBA executives see him as the clear No. 2 pick in the class.

3. Charlotte Hornets

V.J. Edgecombe | 6-5 guard | 19 years old | Baylor

Edgecombe has had a bit of a roller-coaster year at Baylor. He started shooting it a bit poorly from distance, then went through a massive hot stretch in the middle of the season. From Jan. 11 to Feb. 10, he averaged 19 points while shooting 51 percent from the field, 49 percent from 3 and 87 percent from the line. In his final nine games, he averaged 15 points and shot just 38 percent from the field and 26 percent from 3. In total, he averaged 15 points, six rebounds and 3.3 assists per game.

NBA executives are mixed on Edgecombe’s on-ball upside. Some will compare him to Victor Oladipo, whereas others see him more as a terrific 3-and-D player with some transition force with his nuclear levels of explosive athleticism. However, part of the reason he ends up at No. 3 here is that it seems like teams feel a degree of safety with Edgecombe. Because he plays really hard and defends, the intel is quite positive; it’s hard to see how exactly he fails totally, and he maintains a degree of upside long-term if the ball skills continue to improve. In Charlotte, he would be a tremendous fit next to LaMelo Ball and Brandon Miller. The team needs an influx of defensive ability on the perimeter, and he could help in that respect while working through the rest of his offensive game.

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Baylor plays Mississippi State in its NCAA Tournament opener, which should be a fun matchup if the Bulldogs employ Cameron Matthews — their long, athletic defensive stopper — on Edgecombe. Matthews has a similar degree of length and athleticism that Edgecombe will face in the NBA at 6-7 with a powerful 230-pound frame.

4. New Orleans Pelicans

Ace Bailey | 6-10 wing/forward | 18 years old | Rutgers

Bailey will not play in March Madness, and his season was very up-and-down. The scoring was there early, as he averaged 20 points and eight rebounds over his first 12 games, shooting 49 percent from the field, 35 percent from 3 but only 57 percent from the line. However, the rest of his game didn’t really show up until midseason. In his eight games from Jan. 9 until Feb. 5, he averaged 22 points, shooting 48 percent from the field, 44 percent from 3, 87 percent from the line, while averaging 1.5 assists, one steal and nearly two blocks. But then the final stretch came, and it was quite poor. From Feb. 9 onward, Bailey averaged just 12 points, shot poorly from the field and didn’t make nearly the defensive impact.

So who is the real Bailey? That’s what scouts want to know and will work to find out over the next three months. Everyone buys into his shot-making and ability to get to his pull-up. However, there are serious questions about his defensive IQ, passing and decision-making, as well as his ability to create consistent paint touches to get easy shots. At 6-10 with real vertical pop and length, Bailey will be given the benefit of the doubt by teams. You will hear a lot of excuses for Bailey when you talk to teams about why it didn’t totally work out this year despite the terrific counting numbers. He’s likely to go in the top five, but there is a bit of polarization about him. Some see real star upside, while some see a good, Michael Porter Jr.-like role player, and yet others worry significantly about his decision-making. The pre-draft process will be incredibly important.


NBA scouts are excited to see what Kaspar Jakučionis does in the NCAA Tournament. (Grace Smith/ USA Today via Imagn Images)
5. Brooklyn Nets

Kasparas Jakučionis | 6-5 guard | 19 years old | Illinois

Jakučionis has also had a roller-coaster season, starting incredibly hot and looking like a challenger for a top-three selection before he entered Big Ten play and teams started to play his ball screens a bit more aggressively. He averaged 15 points, 5.6 rebounds and 4.6 assists per game, but he also gave up the ball 3.6 times per game, and the turnovers tended to compound in-game. He had seven turnovers in games against Wisconsin, Tennessee and Maryland. In his most recent two games against Iowa and Maryland, he had six. And yet, he also has serious passing ability. He can find passes from any angle and is extremely creative with the ball in his hands. He can also play off the ball because he shoots it well. He’s comfortable in both pull-up and catch-and-shoot situations.

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If there’s one player whom scouts want to see more, Jakučionis might be the guy. Teams are fascinated to see what he looks like in non-league games, in a big spot in the tournament against high-level competition. The Texas and Xavier matchups potentially in the Round of 64 won’t necessarily bring high-level athletes teams want to see him play against, but they could give him a chance to really get going. His range is a bit wider than this right now. I would say it’s anywhere from No. 5 to No. 10.

6. Philadelphia 76ers (top-six protected, otherwise to OKC)

Kon Knueppel | 6-7 guard | 19 years old | Duke

Knueppel was one of the players who helped himself most in the conference tournament cycle, leading Duke without Flagg. In the team’s three ACC tournament games, he averaged 21 points, 5.7 rebounds and 4.7 assists. He showed executives he can be both a strong off-ball scorer and a potentially interesting on-ball player who can dribble, pass and shoot. He’s a terrific shooter, having hit 39 percent from 3 on nearly six 3-point attempts per game.


Defensively, Knueppel plays hard and is highly competitive. He’s a pretty good collegiate defender. However, there are some real issues with his foot speed that will become exacerbated as he moves up to the NBA, and teams are intrigued to see how he’ll defend perimeter players effectively in the increased space. But his ability to play both on and off the ball is extremely interesting, and he’d fit well in Philadelphia with Tyrese Maxey, Paul George and Quentin Grimes.

7. Toronto Raptors

Tre Johnson | 6-6 wing | 19 years old | Texas

Johnson is a bit more polarizing (a word you’ll see a lot in this mock draft) for scouts than you’d think. On one hand, he averaged 19.8 points in a loaded SEC. On the other hand, he shot just 42.7 percent from the field as he really struggled to separate going forward to the rim. That also is an issue given that Johnson does not create easy shots for himself. He’s a big-time contested shot-maker, and he’s arguably the best pull-up shooter in the class. And yet, he also doesn’t really defend at a high level, and while his passing has improved throughout the year, it would be wrong to say he’s a primary playmaker.

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Still, the Raptors could continue to use shooting wings around Scottie Barnes, RJ Barrett and Brandon Ingram to help space out the midrange area that will be so vital for them as they build their roster. Johnson will likely go somewhere in the top 10 even with those polarized thoughts though, and that’s because there are evaluators who truly believe there are some star upside outcomes for him.

8. San Antonio Spurs

Collin Murray-Boyles | 6-8 wing/forward | 20 years old | South Carolina

Murray-Boyles is also a bit polarizing for teams. On one hand, he’s a big-bodied wing/forward who has incredibly long arms and terrific defensive instincts. You can’t blame him for a second of South Carolina’s struggles this season. He was consistently engaged in the action despite guard play that was pretty rough, and he carried the load for the team offensively. He averaged nearly 17 points and eight rebounds and is a tremendous passer for a big wing. I completely buy Murray-Boyles’ feel for the game and his skill set as a multi-positional defender and a short-roll playmaker.

But Murray-Boyles has not made shots in his career. He had a free-throw percentage over 70 percent this year but made only 26.5 percent of his 3s. The jumper is the question. If that part of his game ends up translating — and there’s nothing all that broken with the shot — you’re looking at a longtime starter who will be able to impact the game at a high level without having the ball in his hands. If it doesn’t, he probably ends up as more of a rotational defensive wing. For the Spurs, this is an awesome fit with Victor Wembanyama, as Murray-Boyles is big and long enough to take some interior defensive assignments from Wembanyama while also letting them play the big French defender as a roaming helper. His stock is all over the map, with some scouts seeing him as high as a top-six player in the class and others seeing him as more of a top-20 guy.

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9. Chicago Bulls

Derik Queen | 6-10 big | 19 years old |Maryland

Queen is an outstanding player, a playmaking big man who steps up in the biggest moments and continues to just produce whenever necessary. His showdown with fellow perimeter playmaking center Danny Wolf in the Big Ten tournament was one of the most fun games of the week, as Queen went for 32 points and nearly put Maryland on his back to win the game. Queen is averaging 16.3 points, nine rebounds and two assists, but that undersells his passing ability. Queen is the exact kind of offensive playmaking center whom teams would love to have, especially if you believe he has potential to shoot from distance.



However, there are concerns. Queen’s defense is a real issue. Maryland does as good a job as it can hiding Queen from tough situations, including ball screens, by pre-switching actions and keeping him in the paint regularly. He moves OK laterally, but north-south movements give him issues. Additionally, teams have been impressed with the work he’s done on his body this year, but there is still some room for improvement in terms of him continuing to get into peak physical condition while maintaining it long-term. For the Bulls, they don’t have a long-term answer at center, and Queen would be an incredibly fun player to watch within their current scheme under Billy Donovan.

[mystargtr34]

10. Miami Heat

Jase Richardson | 6-3 guard | 19 years old | Michigan State

Richardson is one of the true breakout risers of this draft class, a player who rarely played on-ball in high school who has flourished this season getting more of those reps for Michigan State. Few players navigate tight spaces quite like Richardson, as he has a Jalen Brunson-like ability to find creases in the defense with his pristine footwork. He averaged 12 points per game this year while shooting 51 percent from the field, 41 percent from 3 and 84 percent from the line. However, it’s his play in the last stretch of the season that has made believers out of most evaluators across the NBA. In his last 11 games, Richardson is averaging 17.3 points and shooting 50 percent from the field, 42 percent from 3 and 82 percent from the line while getting there five times per game. He’s also getting five rebounds and dishing out 1.7 assists while posting a two-to-one assist-to-turnover ratio. He’s made a believer out of even Tom Izzo, who typically avoids playing freshmen.

So what are the concerns? Richardson is smaller, with scouts wondering if he cracks 6-2 without shoes. He’s also not wildly explosive, which is a funny statement to say about the son of dunk contest legend Jason Richardson. Defensively, he’s tough and competes in college, but will he be fast enough to hold up in the NBA? All eyes will be on Jase Richardson in the NCAA Tournament. If he leads Michigan State on a deep run, his stock has a chance to skyrocket.

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11. Portland Trail Blazers

Liam McNeeley | 6-7 wing | 19 years old | Connecticut

McNeeley is yet another polarizing prospect. He averaged 14.5 points this year as a freshman and only shot 33.3 percent from 3 as a player renowned for his floor-spacing. McNeeley was also tasked with a role this season that he was capable of playing but not exactly ready for. He often got asked to play as almost a point wing for the Huskies, who just did not have strong enough guard play this season. A big part of it was that he isn’t a particularly good pull-up shooter and had to take several of those. Off the catch, McNeeley hit 38 percent from 3 this year, per Synergy, and has pristine mechanics that will translate at a very high level toward knocking down shots off movement. McNeeley is also very competitive on defense, although there are worries there, too, as he’s a bit slow-footed. The Blazers could use a true floor-spacer, especially if they end up moving Anfernee Simons this summer as he enters the last season of his contract in 2025-26.

12. Houston Rockets (via PHX)

Thomas Sorber | 6-10 big | 19 years old | Georgetown

Sorber has a foot injury that required surgery in recent weeks and is expected to miss a substantial portion of the pre-draft process. And yet there are evaluators who are seriously excited about his prospects this year and think he should come out. He averaged 14.5 points, 8.5 rebounds and 2.4 assists as a freshman big man, shooting 53 percent from the field. He’s extremely versatile. He’s good on defense and consistently in the right places. He’s very disruptive with his hands, averaging two blocks and 1.5 steals per game. His passing from the top of the key was electric for Georgetown this season, as the Hoyas often used him to find cutters toward the rim from out high. But Sorber will be a bit undersized for the center position, and scouts have noted that while he’s done a great job working on his frame after being a bit heavier earlier in his high school career, he still doesn’t quite have great athleticism to account for it. The skill set is real though. Sorber will likely at least test his draft stock this year. I haven’t talked to anyone recently who has him outside of the first round from the NBA team side, and the teens seems to be the popular landing spot. The Rockets would be a fascinating fit, as he’d allow the team to have a good defender behind Alperen Şengün who also can do similar things as a passer even if it’s not quite to the same level as the Turkish All-Star.

13. Dallas Mavericks

Jeremiah Fears | 6-4 guard | 18 years old | Oklahoma

Yet again, we’re going to use the word polarizing. Fears is about as all over the map as you get as an NBA prospect. Some scouts love his blend of speed and ballhandling ability. He’s undeniably electric with the ball in his hands and averaged 17 points as a reclassified-up freshman at just 18 years old for Oklahoma in the rough-and-tumble SEC. The track record of point guards reclassifying up resembles more of a graveyard than even an average story, so this level of production is remarkably impressive. But he was also inefficient this year, posting a 50.8 true shooting percentage in conference play with a turnover rate that neared 20 percent. Defensively, the less we talk about Fears, the better. He’s a mess off the ball and was regularly attacked by opposing teams. And yet the skill and talent is real. There are scouts who see him as an end-of-the-first-round gamble. There are others who see him as a clear lottery pick who could end up in the top half. His pre-draft process will be fascinating to track as it could lead to a real rise, or he might end up going a bit lower than this.

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14. Atlanta Hawks (via SAC)

Khaman Maluach | 7-2 big | 19 years old | Duke

I hate to keep using the same word, but this is another polarizing player for evaluators. Some see Maluach, who has just recently started playing basketball and is still learning the intricacies of the game, as a high-upside swing at center with his length, defensive capabilities and movement skills. Others see a big man with questionable hands, a limited skill set that likely will resign him toward being a low-usage big and a lack of real vertical pop that could hinder him in ball-screen actions as a roller. Everyone at least sees Maluach as sticking in the NBA as at least a backup center because players this big who can move like he can just don’t wash out of the league, especially when the league itself has a dearth of backup bigs. But others see real upside for him as a league-average starter with potential for more if his jumper comes around. Seeing how he plays in the NCAA Tournament will be fascinating given that teams will game plan for him more substantially and backup center Maliq Brown, who has been more valuable than Maluach this year, is injured.


Nique Clifford leads a red-hot Colorado State team into March Madness. (David Becker / Getty Images)
15. Orlando Magic

Nique Clifford | 6-6 wing | 23 years old | Colorado State

Arguably the biggest winner of conference tournament week, Clifford has been utterly dominant in leading Colorado State to a 15-2 mark over its last 17 games while averaging 20 points, 10 rebounds and five assists in that time. He’s a sharp defender who made the Mountain West All-Defense team. Clifford passes the ball incredibly well, seeing the court at a high level. His jump shot is the main worry, as he’s been streaky over the last two years. He’ll have 10-game stretches up over 45 percent followed by 10-game stretches below 30 percent. Can he consistently make shots? This year, he also showed some dexterity with the ball and as a pull-up shooter, although I’m a bit skeptical those skills totally translate to the NBA as his footwork isn’t quite what like Jalen Williams’ was as an older prospect entering the NBA. Still, somewhere in the top 20 feels right for Clifford right now, and if he leads a hot Colorado State team on a run, the lottery doesn’t feel impossible.

16. San Antonio (via ATL)

Nolan Traoré | 6-3 guard | 19 years old | Saint-Quentin

Traore has had an up-and-down season in France. Some games, he looks like a clear lottery pick. Other games, he has really struggled. Evaluators in France have generally been highly impressed with his game, though, as he’s a teenager running a French league team and experiencing some success. He’s averaging about 12 points and five assists, and while he hasn’t been overly efficient on the whole of the season, he’s started to figure it out over the last month or so. The big question you’ll get asked from teams is simply how Traoré goes about scoring efficiently at the NBA level. He’s a bit small in terms of finishing at the rim. He doesn’t have a particularly developed in-between game yet. And his jumper is still wildly inconsistent from 3, as he’s made just 28 percent of those attempts. But there’s a lot to develop here, and the intel is positive.

17. Minnesota Timberwolves (via DET)

Asa Newell | 6-9 forward/big | 19 years old | Georgia

The Timberwolves are in a funky spot but could use a big somewhat similar to Newell. With Naz Reid entering unrestricted free agency this summer and Julius Randle having only one season left on his deal, getting another guy in like Newell who has some latent dribbling and shooting ability as well as serious defensive impact potential would be valuable. He’s somewhere in the 6-9 to 6-10 range and has been wildly productive this year. He’s averaging 15.3 points and seven rebounds while playing consistently hard every single night. His motor has been terrific this season, and he shows possessions of real switchability on the perimeter defensively. He rotates across the play and blocks shots well, too. There’s just a lot to work with and develop, although scouts do wonder if he’s a bit of a tweener positionally. Is he going to be able to develop enough skill to play power forward? Or will he be strong enough to play center? It’s a real question, because right now he’s not quite either at the NBA level.

18. Oklahoma City Thunder (via LAC)

Noa Essengue | 6-9 forward | 18 years old | Ratiopharm Ulm

Oklahoma City tends to have a model that it looks for in its players. They tend to have real positional size or strength, feel for the game, and the ability to dribble, pass and shoot. Essengue isn’t quite there yet in all of these respects, but he has potential to be that kind of player if it all goes right in his development over the next few years. Essengue is in his first professional season, averaging nearly 11 points and five rebounds while shooting 51 percent from the field. He’s only made 22 percent of his 3s and has some substantial work to do on the jumper — particularly with his extremely narrow base — but he’s very comfortable and confident taking them. More than that, though, he looks quite long and has real athleticism to match. He needs to keep getting stronger and become more accountable with his overall team defense. In general, this is very much a project player. But the upside if he hits is quite high, and Oklahoma City has a strong developmental track record.

19. Indiana Pacers

Joan Beringer | 6-10 center | 18 years old | Cedevita

Beringer is the big riser of the last three months on the international scene. He’s a wildly athletic center who is new to the game and has surprisingly carved out a serious role for Eurocup team Cedevita. He’s as loose athletically as you’ll find a center, with real flexibility and explosiveness at 6-10. He also has extremely long arms and showcases an immense amount of defensive upside that could become versatile in the right situation. More than anything, though, what scouts rave about are his hands. He catches everything in and outside of his area, showing serious potential to be a rim-runner as a low-usage screen-and-roll center. But he isn’t all that massive for the role, which those rim-runner centers typically are. Additionally, he’s got some work to do with the intricacies of the game. I tend to get feedback for him more in the 20s and early 30s, but Indiana is a perfect fit for him as a transition-based team that has a desperate need at backup center (and potentially a long-term need at starting center if Myles Turner departs in free agency).

20. Brooklyn Nets (via MIL)

Ben Saraf | 6-6 guard | 19 years old | Ratiopharm Ulm

Like his Ulm teammate Essengue, Saraf is polarizing as an NBA prospect. He’s averaging 12 points, 4.4 assists, 1.1 steals and 2.8 rebounds as a first-year starting point guard in Germany. He’s shooting 46 percent from the field and showcases serious finishing game as well as a high-level in-between game. His passing vision is also lethal, as he’ll throw left-handed live-dribble looks all across the court with wild velocity and creativity. What are the worries, though? There are several. He turns the ball over fairly often because he doesn’t really have much of a right hand at this stage. Defensively, his coaches clearly don’t trust him and play offense/defense for his possessions in important moments. As a shooter, Saraf has a funky release and has only made 27 percent from distance, although it is worth noting that he’s at a much more reasonable clip off the catch. If you buy into his deceleration superpower on his drives and gathers as well as his passing, you probably have Saraf as a lottery pick. If you don’t and you worry he’ll never shoot, you probably have him in the 20s. I’ve split the difference here.

21. Utah Jazz (via MIN)

Egor Demin | 6-9 guard | 19 years old | BYU

This is probably the last time I’ll use this word, but it’s apropos. There is truly not a more polarizing prospect in this class than Demin, a 6-9 lead guard who is inarguably the best passer in this class but whose flaws are incredibly obvious. The main flaw for Demin is that he doesn’t have an effective way to score right now. Because his handle is a bit high and he’s not a wild athlete, he struggles to get separation from his man consistently. That has led to turnovers and inefficient scoring. Additionally, he struggles to shoot the ball. He did some work on his mechanics in the offseason, but throughout the year, his shot has seemingly reverted back to the older jumper when he was playing with Real Madrid in his youth career, and he’s made just 27 percent from distance.

He’s averaging 10 points and five assists but has really struggled getting to the line or putting the ball in the bucket. He looks like a player who would be helped by returning to college for another year. However, some scouts still genuinely adore his game because of his vision and playmaking. If he goes in the lottery, it won’t stun me, because the people who really buy the upside tend to really buy into it. I’m lower on him here because it feels like a more accurate reflection of his game so far this year. But if Demin is in this draft, he has as wide a range as I can remember. It would help him significantly to have a couple of monster NCAA Tournament games.

22. Miami Heat (via GSW)

Rasheer Fleming | 6-9 forward | 20 years old | Saint Joseph’s

Fleming is a mid-major player who has finally actualized his tools. At 6-9 or so with a wingspan in the 7-4 range, he looks massive on the court and has the athleticism to match it. He’s an explosive leaper and mover. He averaged 15 points, nine rebounds, 1.4 steals and 1.6 blocks, showcasing his ability to turn those traits into production in the Atlantic 10. Fleming is a junior, but he’ll be 20 on draft night and is young for his class. There are some general feel-for-the-game questions, and I see him more as a four or a small-ball five than I do as a wing. But he’s also hitting 40 percent of his five 3-point attempts per game this year, so you will find the odd scout who thinks he could eventually slide down to the four/three role and being a floor-spacer who defends.


Carter Bryant has been a force for Arizona in a reserve role and profiles as a 3-and-D NBA wing. (Aryanna Frank / Imagn Images)
23. Atlanta Hawks (via LAL)

Carter Bryant | 6-8 wing | 19 years old | Arizona

Bryant has come off the bench all season for Arizona but has been a massively important player for the Wildcats. They don’t win nearly as many games or earn a No. 4 seed if he doesn’t come in and play hard defensively while providing a modicum of shooting. The stats don’t look it, as he’s averaging just 6.4 points and 4.1 rebounds, shooting 47 percent from the field and 37 percent from 3. However, the Wildcats are drastically better with him on the court than off it, and he’s been seriously disruptive as a player on defense averaging one steal and one block per game in just 19 minutes. He looks like the exact kind of big wing NBA teams are constantly searching for. Yes, it would probably behoove him to return to school. However, scouts are excited by his tools and are intrigued to see if he can be a serious defensive playmaker as a 3-and-D style weapon.

24. Orlando Magic (via DEN)

Labaron Philon | 6-4 guard | 19 years old | Alabama

Philon has been up-and-down throughout the season, just like many players listed here. He’s averaging 11 points, three rebounds and nearly four assists while shooting 46 percent from the field, 30 percent from 3 and 76 percent from the line. But on an Alabama team that is loaded with depth and talent, it’s more of a game-by-game thing for Philon. On some nights, he looks like a lottery player. On other nights, he looks like a clear multi-year player. There’s no better example of that than the SEC tournament. Philon dominated Kentucky and had 21 points, four assists and only one turnover, but in the semifinals, he went 1-of-9 from the field and had just three points. That game was a shame, because Philon had really been playing well over his previous nine games, averaging 14 points while shooting 53 percent from the field and 39 percent from 3. In general, Philon would probably be better off returning to Alabama to develop his game further once Mark Sears graduates and he gets to run the show himself. But if he were to enter the draft, the NBA is very interested in his game because of his shiftiness and ability to control speeds.

[mystargtr34]

25. Washington Wizards (via MEM)

Hugo González | 6-6 wing/forward | 19 years old | Real Madrid

González hasn’t gotten a chance to play a ton this year for Real Madrid, although that has started to change recently. Since late January, he’s had several games getting double-digit minutes, but the role is not very big on a team with a significant number of high-level professionals. The area where teams have no questions with González is on defense. He’s an excellent, high-motor player with real athleticism. He gets a ton of deflections and flies around on that end, making a serious impact with his energy and aggression. The big question is what he does offensively in the NBA. The jumper doesn’t look broken, but it’s clearly going to take some time to develop as he’s shooting just 27 percent from the 3-point line. I also don’t always love his decision-making, as he often feels a bit sped up on the court like things are moving quite fast. Teams that value defensive wings will like González, though, and bet on his competitive character and willingness to work.

26. Brooklyn Nets (via HOU)

Noah Penda | 6-8 forward | 20 years old | Le Mans

Penda is all over the map for teams. Some think of him in this range as a late first-rounder. Others see him more as a second-round stash. On the plus side, he’s a massive human being at 6-8 with a ton of strength at around 240 pounds. He makes an impact as a player in the French league across the court, averaging 10 points, five rebounds, three assists and over one steal and one block per game. The jumper has improved this year, but he’s still in the 31 percent range. Defensively, he’s active and hunts big plays but can be a gambler. Still, his feel for the game is pretty real, and he absorbs contact at a high level on the court with his strength. Unsurprisingly given this great generation of French players, it’s been common for evaluators to try to compare them. One French league general manager I spoke with compared Penda and Essengue by saying the likeliest outcome for Penda is probably a bit higher than it is for Essengue, but Essengue’s ceiling is so much higher that you probably have to draft him a bit earlier. The question is just whether either of their median outcomes are quite NBA players or if they need to exceed that level within their future development.

27. Brooklyn Nets (via NYK)

Miles Byrd | 6-6 wing | 21 years old | San Diego State

Byrd is as active a defender as you’ll find in college basketball, a 6-6 wing with incredible hand-eye coordination. He averages 2.2 steals per game and gets several more deflections than that. On offense, Byrd is also a really sharp passer with strong feel for the game and has clear potential as a shooter. The ball seems to come out of his hand well, and he’s a very willing shooter. He attempts nearly six 3s per game; the issue is just that he only makes 31 percent of them. It is worth noting that many of these shots are contested, as San Diego State’s offense isn’t exactly a beautiful picture of drive-and-kick play. Byrd is also quite skinny right now and will take some real physical development before getting to play NBA minutes consistently. That lower-body strength addition might also help his jumper mechanics become just a bit more consistent. But as a 3-and-D bet, analytically inclined organizations are very interested in Byrd given his high steal rates, willingness to shoot 3s and high free-throw percentage at 83 percent for his career.

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28. Boston Celtics

Yaxel Lendeborg | 6-9 forward | 22 years old | UAB

Lendeborg helped himself as much as anyone in the conference tournament cycle, putting up multiple dominant performances in the AAC. His game against East Carolina in the quarterfinals, when he had 30 points, 23 rebounds, eight assists, five steals and four blocks with zero turnovers, was about as good as I’ve seen anyone play in a game this season. Lendeborg has a very well-rounded game that has potential to translate well to the league. He averages nearly two blocks and two steals per game, and while those numbers won’t be that high in the NBA, they do show that he’s very active with his hands on defense (even if his foot speed gives some scouts pause on the perimeter). He rebounds the ball incredibly well, averaging 11 per game. He has terrific touch and hits 34 percent of his two 3-point attempts per game, and has real ball skill as a driver. His passing vision is also terrific, as he averages 4.2 assists per game.



Lendeborg is a former junior college player, meaning that, despite being a senior, he still has eligibility left in college. Expect programs to come chasing him, as he’d be one of the premier options in the transfer portal given his dominance in the college game.

29. LA Clippers (via OKC)

Ryan Kalkbrenner | 7-1 big | 23 years old | Creighton

Kalkbrenner has high-level NBA backup center written all over him. He’s 7-1 with a 7-4 wingspan, and he’s elite in drop-coverage defense against ball screens. He’s great with his lines and consistently has the right angles to slow down ballhandlers while also being in touching distance of the guard. He controls gaps incredibly well in help defense and has been one of the best defenders in the country over the last four years. This year, he’s also averaging 19 points on 65 percent from the field despite taking nearly two 3-point attempts per game and hitting them at a 33 percent clip. He even showcased a wild moment in the team’s Big East semifinal against Connecticut when he attacked a closeout and one-dribble gathered into a right-handed layup from the left wing. There’s a lot to buy into given the NBA’s need for depth at center. Kalkbrenner has real size, potential to shoot and understands how to help his team on defense.

30. Phoenix Suns (via CLE)

Danny Wolf | 7-0 center | 21 years old | Michigan

Why not close it out with another tremendously polarizing player in Wolf ?(Yes, there’s that word again. I lied.) There is no more capable big with the ball in his hands than Wolf, a ridiculously gifted playmaker at 7 feet who runs actions as a pick-and-roll ballhandler for Michigan. He’s averaging 13 points, 10 rebounds and four assists, and I think the four assists undersell his passing ability. He throws some incredibly creative looks. The scouts who love bigs who handle the ball are all over Wolf as an intriguing upside swing. And yet, it’s far from unanimous because the flaws are significant. Wolf’s jumper is a serious work in progress right now despite the fact that he hit 34 percent from 3 on four attempts per game. The mechanics are messy and could be more problematic as he moves farther back beyond the NBA 3-point line. His turnover issue is serious, as he’s averaging 3.3 per game. But most importantly, scouts are completely unclear on whom Wolf guards. He’s not a particularly explosive leaper despite having real athleticism and coordination, so he’s unlikely to be a high-level rim protector. However, he also doesn’t really move well enough to guard on the perimeter. Answering those questions will be critical to his NBA future. Anywhere from No. 20 to all the way down to No. 40 feels right at this point.

[mystargtr34]

Can you hook those of us outside of the paywall up with the highlights?

My finger slipped and ended up copy and pasting the whole lot by accident.

[Dejounte]

The writer has the right idea about what’s needed next to Wemby:

For the Spurs, this is an awesome fit with Victor Wembanyama, as Murray-Boyles is big and long enough to take some interior defensive assignments from Wembanyama while also letting them play the big French defender as a roaming helper.

I just don’t know if CMB is it yet.

[rankingtear]

CMB is a good pick. Long term upside is what they are going for. They need floor spacers now but as the core develops on offense the moment you can slot a Sochan or CMB in the starting lineup you would field a true contender.

[rascal]

KAT looks injured.

Spurs going to win this game with him out.

[objective]

Something that me is interestingly meaningless about Traoré is just how terribly everyone mispronounces his name. It's butchered more than any in a long time.

Even American: Tray-or.

Every French broadcast I hear: Twah-_(g)reh ? I appreciate that the French pronunciation of the letter R tends to be more gutteral or from the back of the throat, but they go overboard for Traoré and I can't do it either lol

[spurraider21]

Updated mock from Sam Vecenie.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6209187/2025/03/19/2025-cooper-flagg-nba-draft/

The only three mocks I take much interest in are Vecenie, Wasserman from bleacher report, and Givony.
Vecenie has become my favorite NBA guy, particularly with the draft, but not bad with regular in-season coverage either. with that said, im not huge fans of either CMB or Traore

Vecenie is way above consensus on CMB. today he did a youtube live mock draft with some other dude where they were taking turns making picks. i think in that one they had CMB going #5 overall. they ended up having spurs take Knueppel and then Asa Newell (Fleming was picked in between them)

i know we had a poster here do look at some historical comps and by filtering for "feel" (using stuff like assist/to ratio to filter for that) and athleticism and CMB had some extremely favorable outcomes. im not personally crazy aobut him but i could just be missing the boat

[heyheymymy]

wow yeah I like Veccenie but CMB + Traore would be unexpected at this stage

[Mr. Body]

Yaxel Lendeborg completely dominated Rasheer Flemming in the NIT matchup. Lendeborg had some problems but no doubt in this game.

[Vienna]

Wasserman just did a new mock. has the Spurs pick Jeremiah Fears at #9 (passing on Knueppel and Jakucionis), Carter Bryant at #16 and Chaz Lanier at #39.
(nbadraftroom has the Spurs pick Bryant in their latest update as well)

Wasserman is pretty high on Derik Queen at #5 and Jase Richardson at #8, but low on Jakucionis (#11) and Demin (#25).

[John B]

Wasserman just did a new mock. has the Spurs pick Jeremiah Fears at #9 (passing on Knueppel and Jakucionis), Carter Bryant at #16 and Chaz Lanier at #39.
(nbadraftroom has the Spurs pick Bryant in their latest update as well)

Wasserman is pretty high on Derik Queen at #5 and Jase Richardson at #8, but low on Jakucionis (#11) and Demin (#25).

Fears and Bryant is the best they’d get for semi-tanking the rest of the season??? And a 6’4 guard at 2nd round? Has he seen Zubac got 20 rebounds against the Spurs, and every jumbo big man attacking Wemby on the paint??? The Spurs need a defensive big, a knockdown shooter, and another project big in that order.

[SpursBills]

Did anyone watch Texas vs Xavier last night? Tre Johnson had a nice line so was just curious how he played. Dailyn Swain of Xavier is an NBA caliber high level defensive wing prospect so should have been a nice test for him.

[Mr. Body]

Did anyone watch Texas vs Xavier last night? Tre Johnson had a nice line so was just curious how he played. Dailyn Swain of Xavier is an NBA caliber high level defensive wing prospect so should have been a nice test for him.

Yeah. He did pretty well overall. Got frustrated near the end and jacked a bad shot, but okay. Their coach was so bad this season. Offense was just iso players. Wouldn't run screens or anything.

[spurraider21]

best description of Tre Johnson i read is that he's a terrorist on the court

its pretty crazy how well some freshmen have been shooting lately

[Mr. Body]

best description of Tre Johnson i read is that he's a terrorist on the court

its pretty crazy how well some freshmen have been shooting lately

I'm not quite sure what that means, good or bad. I'd say Rodney Terry was the real Texas terrorist.

One promising thing about Johnson is that he plays well off-ball.

[spurraider21]

I'm not quite sure what that means, good or bad. I'd say Rodney Terry was the real Texas terrorist.

One promising thing about Johnson is that he plays well off-ball.
i think thats partially the point

[Mr. Body]

i think thats partially the point

I guess it seems drastic. Johnson doesn't have a huge negative impact on the game other than going invisible at times. If he takes tough shots, in part that's on Terry for putting him in bad situations. He's not a great iso scorer at this point but was forced to try to be.

[scott]

Fears and Bryant is the best they’d get for semi-tanking the rest of the season??? And a 6’4 guard at 2nd round? Has he seen Zubac got 20 rebounds against the Spurs, and every jumbo big man attacking Wemby on the paint??? The Spurs need a defensive big, a knockdown shooter, and another project big in that order.

Just keep in mind that a lot of mock drafts at this point aren't really heavily considering team needs. No real need to get worked up about a bad fit in early mocks.

[CGD]

Can you hook those of us outside of the paywall up with the highlights?

They also discuss this on his game theory podcast today. Globally he seems to be relatively low on this draft after the top two, which I found interesting. Apparently some of the teams he talks to feel similarly. Has us taking Knipple at 9 and Asa at 16.

[CGD]

Did anyone watch Texas vs Xavier last night? Tre Johnson had a nice line so was just curious how he played. Dailyn Swain of Xavier is an NBA caliber high level defensive wing prospect so should have been a nice test for him.

Many of the draft evaluators seem low on Tre. Sounds like he’s basically a thin chucker.

[scott]

They also discuss this on his game theory podcast today. Globally he seems to be relatively low on this draft after the top two, which I found interesting. Apparently some of the teams he talks to feel similarly. Has us taking Knipple at 9 and Asa at 16.

Yeah, he and Brice have been saying this for awhile (though before it was the Top 5, interesting that has now shrunken down to a Top 2). Fans like to keep repeating that this is a "strong draft" but it's really not. It just happens to have Flagg and Harper up top.

[CGD]

Wasserman just did a new mock. has the Spurs pick Jeremiah Fears at #9 (passing on Knueppel and Jakucionis), Carter Bryant at #16 and Chaz Lanier at #39.
(nbadraftroom has the Spurs pick Bryant in their latest update as well)

Wasserman is pretty high on Derik Queen at #5 and Jase Richardson at #8, but low on Jakucionis (#11) and Demin (#25).

I guess they’re not factoring in need right now. Fears makes little sense after the Fox trade.

[John B]

Yeah, he and Brice have been saying this for awhile (though before it was the Top 5, interesting that has now shrunken down to a Top 2). Fans like to keep repeating that this is a "strong draft" but it's really not. It just happens to have Flagg and Harper up top.

Of course nothing is certain but I could see Edgecombe, Kon, CMB, Queen, Sorber, Malauch as possible AS if their potentials are met.

I still like Wolf as a solid role player who’s going to have a long career in the NBA. And sometimes that’s all you need, a Tiago, a Diaw or a Danny Green.

[baseline bum]

I have a lot of questions about fit with this draft. We have 3 building blocks in Castle, Fox, and Wemby. Now what we need is shooting. Like a lot of shooting. And an athletic rebounder would be nice as well. I wonder how all in the Spurs are this offseason. They need to know that we have officially started our window and the time to make big FA acquisitions is while Wemby is still cheap. We are paying him $13 million a year. Soon he will cost $50 million a year which is still a steal for him.


Wemby's base year in 27-28 when he signs his new contract will be $65.4 million, assuming he's going to be supermax eligible.

[baseline bum]

They also discuss this on his game theory podcast today. Globally he seems to be relatively low on this draft after the top two, which I found interesting. Apparently some of the teams he talks to feel similarly. Has us taking Knipple at 9 and Asa at 16.

I remember the big knock on Ben Simmons being that he couldn't get LSU to the tournament and wasn't a winning player, and low and behold it was 100% correct. I'm wondering why it should be different with Harper when he should still be a big fish in a small pond going against college players if he's this can't miss star PG talent. Why is everyone so sure he's not another Scoot Henderson? Flagg is a mile ahead of everyone else in this draft.

[spurraider21]

Asa Newell and Georgia bounced in first round. Newell scored 20 with 8 rebounds on 6-10 shooting (0-2 from 3), 8-10 from the line. 1 assist, 4 turnovers, no steals or blocks

he's not among my favorites but is somebody i could see the spurs picking

[mystargtr34]

I remember the big knock on Ben Simmons being that he couldn't get LSU to the tournament and wasn't a winning player, and low and behold it was 100% correct. I'm wondering why it should be different with Harper when he should still be a big fish in a small pond going against college players if he's this can't miss star PG talent. Why is everyone so sure he's not another Scoot Henderson? Flagg is a mile ahead of everyone else in this draft.

I think there’s too many variables that affect winning at the college level to pin on the star player especially for smaller college programs.

Anthony Edwards Georgia team finished 16-16 overall and 5-13 in SEC play. Funny enough that team had Toumani Camara on it.

[spurraider21]

Demin had a solid game for BYU who comfortably advanced. 15 points of 6-11 shooting, 3-7 from 3. 4 rebounds 2 assists, 4 turnovers, no steals or blocks

nice shooting game, but after a hot start to the year, he ended up sub-30%. his FT's being under 70% are also cause for concern. but he has good size and skill, but struggle to see how that works out in the pros without a consistent outside shot. he's not a good enough defender like Franz to overcome his shooting issues (Franz has improved as a shooter with time). you're kind of looking at a less athletic, less productive evan turner...

[baseline bum]

you're kind of looking at a less athletic, less productive evan turner...

Exactly, sounds like a San Antonio Spur already