2025 NBA Draft

[Dejounte]

Imo, the way mcneely scored those 30 plus points is the very definition of a clumsy scorer who wont be able to get those shots up against nba defenders

im going back and forth with who i want the spurs draft

-high upside two way player with freak physical attributes
-baller regardless of position
-bucket getter

the spurs get any one of these types and im happy

[Dejounte]

The folks who want asa are going to be the same ones crying about how the starting lineup doesnt have any shooters tbh cant believe we’re on this same road again

[Uriel]

Where would Castle rank as a prospect if he were in this year's draft?

[Mr. Body]

Newell's 3p% is sub.300 but his shooting form is better than Sochan's and he can run on a break which works well with Fox and Castle. He's also a good offensive rebounder, Sochan is not, Sochan doesn't even know how to get good position for offensive rebounds.

When the ball goes to Sochan the offense goes to a crawl.

He's awkward handling the basketball and is a poor passer. Sochan needs to be replaced in the starting lineup and moved to the bench. Asa Newell has a higher ceiling.

Comparing a guy playing in college to a guy playing in the NBA is just frankly idiotic.

[Mr. Body]

I was pretty strong on him early on, but his stats other than points are minuscule. Doesn’t rebound, doesn’t get to the line, doesn’t defend. He could drop.

I've generally not liked his mom scoring production either, but he has been getting better in that department.

[RC_Drunkford]

I like Demin and Fleming a lot more than Newell

[mo7888]

I like Demin and Fleming a lot more than Newell

Me too

[spurraider21]

Where would Castle rank as a prospect if he were in this year's draft?
you mean if we took last year's prospect and time traveled him to the present? or with what we've seen from castle as a rookie so far in mind?

[exstatic]

The folks who want asa are going to be the same ones crying about how the starting lineup doesnt have any shooters tbh cant believe we’re on this same road again

The one shooter that a lot of us like, you accused of scoring clumsily, so…

[scott]

New ESPN mock draft (Givony and Woo) has us taking Fears at #9 and something from France called Joan Beringer (C from Slovenian team Cedevita Olimpija) at #12. I don't think I've seen anyone talk about this kid. Anyone got thoughts on him? Maybe this is one for Bruno (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=2449).

Here is ESPN's report:


12. San Antonio Spurs (https://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/sa/san-antonio-spurs) (via Atlanta)

Joan Beringer (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/42608168/nba-draft-2025-top-10-international-players-need-know), C, Cedevita Olimpija (France)
Slovenia | TS%: 59.6%
Scouting report: Beringer has drawn increasingly significant crowds of NBA decision-makers in Slovenia. The 18-year-old has responded with some spectacular moments on the defensive end, proving to be one of the most versatile players in the class with his ability to cover ground on the perimeter, switch onto smaller players, and protect the rim, leading both the EuroCup and Adriatic League in block percentage. Playing basketball for only three years, Beringer had zero high-level experience coming into the season but is improving every week, giving him unlimited upside to grow into long term. -- Givony
NBA fit and intel: San Antonio owns this pick unprotected from Atlanta, originally acquiring it in the 2022 Dejounte Murray (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3907497/dejounte-murray) trade. Adding a high-upside young interior defender in Beringer, who could take on some responsibility in the paint and allow Victor Wembanyama (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/5104157/victor-wembanyama) to handle a more versatile defensive role, would give the Spurs a different dimension. Beringer's upside and ability to defend bigger bodies would make him an intriguing option as a young rim protector on the right timeline with the rest of the team's core players. -- WooAnd just for informational purposes, this mock has Tre Johnson going #11 to Houston and McNeeley going #13 to Atlanta. If the draft fell this way, I'd rather we just take those two guys.

Also, FYI, SpursTalk favorite Rasheer Fleming goes #28. Danny Wolfe goes #16. Most of the PFs that have been talked about as mid to late lottery go later than we've been discussing (CMB #18, Essengue #19, Newell #21, Karaban #29).

I know most folks don't put a lot of stock into ESPN for draft stuff, but this was certainly different and there were some names that I've not heard discussed all on this forum (and I consider this forum to be pretty damn sharp when it comes to prospect talk)

[scott]

Also, for those without ESPN+, they also have OKC taking Derik Queen @ #10, Hugo Gonzalez @ #15, and Newell @ #21. Fuck these fucking Thunder man.

[ambchang]

Newell's 3p% is sub.300 but his shooting form is better than Sochan's and he can run on a break which works well with Fox and Castle. He's also a good offensive rebounder, Sochan is not, Sochan doesn't even know how to get good position for offensive rebounds.

When the ball goes to Sochan the offense goes to a crawl.

He's awkward handling the basketball and is a poor passer. Sochan needs to be replaced in the starting lineup and moved to the bench. Asa Newell has a higher ceiling.

WTF?

[RC_Drunkford]

New ESPN mock draft (Givony and Woo) has us taking Fears at #9 and something from France called Joan Beringer (C from Slovenian team Cedevita Olimpija) at #12. I don't think I've seen anyone talk about this kid. Anyone got thoughts on him? Maybe this is one for Bruno (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=2449).

Here is ESPN's report:

And just for informational purposes, this mock has Tre Johnson going #11 to Houston and McNeeley going #13 to Atlanta. If the draft fell this way, I'd rather we just take those two guys.

Also, FYI, SpursTalk favorite Rasheer Fleming goes #28. Danny Wolfe goes #16. Most of the PFs that have been talked about as mid to late lottery go later than we've been discussing (CMB #18, Essengue #19, Newell #21, Karaban #29).

I know most folks don't put a lot of stock into ESPN for draft stuff, but this was certainly different and there were some names that I've not heard discussed all on this forum (and I consider this forum to be pretty damn sharp when it comes to prospect talk)

this guy has been mocked in the 2nd round tbh

[montgod]

Also, for those without ESPN+, they also have OKC taking Derik Queen @ #10, Hugo Gonzalez @ #15, and Newell @ #21. Fuck these fucking Thunder man.

Dang, Queen has moved up that high?

[Bruno]

New ESPN mock draft (Givony and Woo) has us taking Fears at #9 and something from France called Joan Beringer (C from Slovenian team Cedevita Olimpija) at #12. I don't think I've seen anyone talk about this kid. Anyone got thoughts on him? Maybe this is one for Bruno (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=2449).


I've talked about him a couple of weeks ago:

A player you haven't heard of and who will be likely drafted in the first round is french player Joan Beringer. He is currently #24 on Givony's big board.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh7L22Kd6N4

The main thing about him is that he has played basketball for 3 and a half years. He barely knows how to play but he is true physical specimen (6'10/6'11" barefoot with a 7'4" wingspan and a great mobility/explosiveness) and is improving quickly.
Teams with multiple first round picks like OKC and Nets will surely use one of them on him. A very high risk and reward prospect.

A great article about him (in French):
https://www.bebasket.fr/joan-beringer-le-nouvel-ovni-francais-un-premier-tour-de-draft-nba-faconne-en-moins-de-quatre-ans

[Mr. Body]

A French player who doesn't know how to play basketball. Sounds like Tidjane!

People have been pointing out that Givony is strangely really pushing this guy.

Givony is the guy who weirdly slagged Castle relentlessly during the draft last year, claiming he watched him for an hour in shoot around and never saw him hit two in a row and other things.

He has weird agendas, imo, pretty typical of an ESPN dude. My guess is maybe just outright getting paid by agents or otherwise.

[Mr. Body]

Givony was wildly wrong about Castle, of course.

[spurraider21]

A French player who doesn't know how to play basketball. Sounds like Tidjane!

People have been pointing out that Givony is strangely really pushing this guy.

Givony is the guy who weirdly slagged Castle relentlessly during the draft last year, claiming he watched him for an hour in shoot around and never saw him hit two in a row and other things.

He has weird agendas, imo, pretty typical of an ESPN dude. My guess is maybe just outright getting paid by agents or otherwise.


Givony was wildly wrong about Castle, of course.
givony had the spurs taking castle at #4 and was correct

[Bruno]

A French player who doesn't know how to play basketball. Sounds like Tidjane!


Difference is Salaün played a lot of basketball before being drafted.

A good comparison for him (it is the one they made in the article I've linked) is Ian Mahinmi: a player with great physical tools, a good attitude/work ethic, who has just started to play basketball and is getting better very quickly.

[Bruno]

2 players higher in Givony's mock draft than other ones are Will Riley and Hugo Gonzalez.

Will Riley had a great start of the season, followed by two bad months but he is back at a very good level in the past 5 games. It's not a surprised to see him rising in mock drafts.

I know very little about Gonzalez. I'll need to watch more of him to get an opinion but his questionable jumpshot is quite an issue given Spurs lack of shooting.

[scott]

If the draft somehow fell exactly like this ESPN Mock and we took Tre Johnson and McNeeley, that would be pretty close to optimal for both their respective talent levels and our needs. I'd be extremely happy with that if we're picking 9 and 12. Only nitpick is that maybe instead of Liam we go for a little more size, but there are other ways to address that.

Taking a backup PG (Fears) and a backup (C) would seem... suboptimal to say the least, even before considering those two specific player's traits.

[Mr. Body]

givony had the spurs taking castle at #4 and was correct

Because eventually he has to go by final intel or lose whatever reputation he still has. Before, he was #1 in trying to wreck Castle's reputation for some reason. No one was dogging Castle more than he was. And, yes, he was wrong about it.

[Mr. Body]

Givony's tactics throughout the draft process seemed to be to plump Risacher at every turn and slag Castle. I don't remember him about the Kentucky guards.

[Mr. Body]

If the draft somehow fell exactly like this ESPN Mock and we took Tre Johnson and McNeeley, that would be pretty close to optimal for both their respective talent levels and our needs. I'd be extremely happy with that if we're picking 9 and 12. Only nitpick is that maybe instead of Liam we go for a little more size, but there are other ways to address that.

Taking a backup PG (Fears) and a backup (C) would seem... suboptimal to say the least, even before considering those two specific player's traits.

I'm unsure about Johnson and McNeeley both, but would be really happy with that result. I'd be okay with something like McNeeley and Queen. Although he's not a shotblocker, etc., Queen's profile and smarts are really intriguing as a swing.

[Uriel]

you mean if we took last year's prospect and time traveled him to the present? or with what we've seen from castle as a rookie so far in mind?
The latter.

[spurraider21]

The latter.
id guess 5-7, after flagg/harper/bailey/edgecombe, depending on how people feel about malauch and jakucionis

[scott]

I'm unsure about Johnson and McNeeley both, but would be really happy with that result. I'd be okay with something like McNeeley and Queen. Although he's not a shotblocker, etc., Queen's profile and smarts are really intriguing as a swing.

Yeah at 9 and 12 I think we're just going to have to be pleased with guys who project reasonable upside but have question marks and that is perfectly fine. There are obviously no sure fire picks there. We all just need to accept that not all picks will pan out and that's okay. Even the occasional Primo-level miss isn't catastrophic so long as you don't make a habit of it. I'd say Sochan and Vassell were not optimal but perfectly solid picks. So long as you do that, you'll be fine because you hit home runs with Wemby and Castle. IMO, that's what OKC has done well. Got Chet and JWill as home runs (though Chet can't stay healthy, so tbd) and are just doing solid work with the rest of their picks and can absorb the inevitable misses (Dieng).

I just hope we avoid swings on guys like whoever this Joan kid is, or this year's Tidjane. Those picks are fine for a CHA who just needs to take big swings, but we're past that.

[Uriel]

id guess 5-7, after flagg/harper/bailey/edgecombe, depending on how people feel about malauch and jakucionis
So even with everything that Castle has shown, Bailey and Edgecombe still rank above him as a prospect?

[BackHome]

College Castle - Yes

[exstatic]

So even with everything that Castle has shown, Bailey and Edgecombe still rank above him as a prospect?

Edgecomb is going to be wild. He creates a lot of defensive events, AND he can shoot the 3 ball.

[ginobilized]

Edgecomb really passes the eye test for me. He looks like a seriously talented and skilled player. I haven't seen much college ball this season, but, his clips pop in a real way. I'm hoping that we use both draft picks and knock a current player or two off the roster in some trades this summer.

[spurraider21]

yeah i was sold on him the way he held his own in the olympics

he reminds me a bit of college westbrook/oladipo. just a very high level athlete who also knows how to play. competes on defense. the shooting has been better than expected and his form looks totally fine.

[spurraider21]

his first tweet since july :lol

1889532074219987316

thats good enough for me

[Knoxxx]

his first tweet since july :lol

1889532074219987316

thats good enough for me

Peer recruiting!

[rascal]

Sochan playing poorly

[BackHome]

Castle and him together would be sweet

[Knoxxx]

ATL trailing, double loss would be good for our postions.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Givony super obviously has a lot of intel but is paid by agents to push agendas. He does it all the time and his words should never be taken literally.

In the case of Castle he might have even been carrying water for the Spurs, who knows. It was weird, to say the least.

[exstatic]

Givony super obviously has a lot of intel but is paid by agents to push agendas. He does it all the time and his words should never be taken literally.

In the case of Castle he might have even been carrying water for the Spurs, who knows. It was weird, to say the least.

It’s sad,because as an independent, his web site was top notch. I guess everyone has a number, and ESPN wrote a check that hit his, but yeah,he’s just a corporate shill now, and can’t be taken seriously. He’s also another guy like Lowe who was really good at analysis,but sucks at the Shams/Woj style gossip game.

[Dejounte]

Imo, I view Fox as a force multiplier for developing guards on the team. Like, I think he would be a great offseason mentor for Castle. Drafting another guard like Edgecombe would probably be a plus for us even if it’s a little crowded. The team in the future would be nonstop elite guard play with one of those three relentlessly attacking.

[cutewizard]

https://youtu.be/jmacb3kCq9U?feature=shared

[cutewizard]

Beringer

A pleasant surprise

This draft is truly rich, lots of potential

[cutewizard]

https://youtu.be/CxW4LnYa1EI?si=DklRYcW90AO-_IK2

[cutewizard]

https://youtu.be/COxJoi2zqBg?si=Uaa5o9RjeDO-Zqxu

[BackHome]

Hey Wizard could you please post Maxime Raynaud Midseason Highlights

[Knoxxx]

If we are not top 4, I think McNeeley then Knuepel are serious targets. Demin dropped to #17 so he could be gettable with an ATL pick 15ish. ATL pick also makes me eyeball Fleming though Sorber/Wolf/Broome are legit options late first. Still like idea of trading up into early second and eying Kalkbrenner there. He is on the fringe of being there with our own SRP. If the prospect is an area of need, which for us is frontcourt, it is legit to “reach” because for example drafting someone rated 20-25 at the 15 spot is not really a reach in that situation.

[Guru of Nothing]

Seems like drafting a 7 footer in the second round of every draft to develop in G-League would be a good idea. Squirrel them away like an NFL team might do with a QB prospect drafted in later rounds, and if player development is robust enough, they either hit, or can be dealt for 2nd round capital to recoup cost (on average, not every single time). There should always be a big prospect available to call up instead of having to pull in randos on a 10-day contract.

[Knoxxx]

Some of these guys like Kalkbrenner don’t look like they need much G league. Kalkbrenner has a mature post game and also shoots 42% from three and blocks shots.

[Knoxxx]

https://youtu.be/COxJoi2zqBg?si=Uaa5o9RjeDO-Zqxu

A taller Sochan?

[rascal]

If we are not top 4, I think McNeeley then Knuepel are serious targets. Demin dropped to #17 so he could be gettable with an ATL pick 15ish. ATL pick also makes me eyeball Fleming though Sorber/Wolf/Broome are legit options late first. Still like idea of trading up into early second and eying Kalkbrenner there. He is on the fringe of being there with our own SRP. If the prospect is an area of need, which for us is frontcourt, it is legit to “reach” because for example drafting someone rated 20-25 at the 15 spot is not really a reach in that situation.

delete my post

How can you delete posts here?

[rascal]

A taller Sochan?

No neeed for another Sochan. Some of you guys want the worst players.

[rascal]

Have to start thinking about two picks in the 11 to 15 range.

Spurs can't seem to climb higher than 10 with either the Atlanta pick or their own pick.

[Mr. Body]

https://youtu.be/jmacb3kCq9U?feature=shared

Offense: Runs the floor well, puts in effort rebounding.

Sheesh.

[scott]

Seems like drafting a 7 footer in the second round of every draft to develop in G-League would be a good idea. Squirrel them away like an NFL team might do with a QB prospect drafted in later rounds, and if player development is robust enough, they either hit, or can be dealt for 2nd round capital to recoup cost (on average, not every single time). There should always be a big prospect available to call up instead of having to pull in randos on a 10-day contract.

Yeah, I think this would be a much better use of the end of bench spots than just having Blake and Bran keep the seats warm. It's time for us to get a little more serious about those end of bench spots and our two-ways.

[SpursBills]

Definitely a moot point now that we're past the trade deadline, but would anyone have offered Atlanta their 2025 pick back for Risacher? Get a 3 and D wing currently shooting 32% from 3 but much better over his last 5 in exchange for that small slice of top 4 equity. Just a hypothetical scenario. Part 2 is would Atlanta have taken the Spurs up on that once Jalen Johnson went down?

[mo7888]

Definitely a moot point now that we're past the trade deadline, but would anyone have offered Atlanta their 2025 pick back for Risacher? Get a 3 and D wing currently shooting 32% from 3 but much better over his last 5 in exchange for that small slice of top 4 equity. Just a hypothetical scenario. Part 2 is would Atlanta have taken the Spurs up on that once Jalen Johnson went down?

Yes. I would have done that deal.

I doubt that they would do that.

[scott]

Hey mo7888. I always enjoy your big boards. Have you put together a post-Fox Spurs board yet?

[baseline bum]

Hey mo7888. I always enjoy your big boards. Have you put together a post-Fox Spurs board yet?

It's ok, we don't need too big a board per my tankathon roll today

https://i.ibb.co/Kprr43T2/tankathon.jpg

[Guru of Nothing]

It's ok, we don't need too big a board per my tankathon roll today

https://i.ibb.co/Kprr43T2/tankathon.jpg

Pairs nicely with your avatar.

[mo7888]

Hey mo7888. I always enjoy your big boards. Have you put together a post-Fox Spurs board yet?
I appreciate that.

It's still a work in progress, but here's where I'm at, at the moment, but I am still working on it.

1. Cooper Flagg
2. Dylan Harper
3. V.J. Edgecombe
4. Ace Bailey
5. Kasparas Jackucionis
6. Tre Johnson
7. Sergio De Larrea
8. Jon Knueppel
9. Liam McNeely
10. Rasheer Fleming
11. Egor Demin
12. Danny Wolf
13. Shaman Maluach
14. Jase Richardson
15. Dink Pate
16. Ben Saraf
17. Asa Newell
18. Miles Byrd
19. Will Riley
20. Nolan Traore
21. Collins Murray-Boyles
22. Alex Karaban
23. Johni Broome
24. Derick Queen
25. Ian Jackson
26. Drake Powell
27. Noa Essengue
28. Jeremiah Fears
29. Tyrese Proctor
30. Boogie Fland

[cutewizard]

Hey Wizard could you please post Maxime Raynaud Midseason Highlights


Ok Sir, doing it now.......

[cutewizard]

https://youtu.be/0fejVooBSBo?si=9WAdfkobNhrBKnIe

[cutewizard]

https://youtu.be/nLYuHUwG1EQ?feature=shared

[Bruno]

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/43402156/2025-nba-draft-10-risers-radar-players-prospects


We've heard that his relationship with Victor Wembanyama is very real. It wouldn't surprise me to see him end up on the Spurs. ...

Spurs haven't add players to the team just because they were Wembanyama's buddies (Armel Traoré would be with Spurs otherwise) which is a good thing. Better not starting that and end up like Bucks with Giannis and his brothers.

[scott]

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/43402156/2025-nba-draft-10-risers-radar-players-prospects



Spurs haven't add players to the team just because they were Wembanyama's buddies (Armel Traoré would be with Spurs otherwise) which is a good thing. Better not starting that and end up like Bucks with Giannis and his brothers.

And thankfully, at least by Wemby's public comments, it doesn't seem like he's the kind of guy who's interested making sacrifices on the roster to do his buddies a solid. I get the feeling that he'd be fine trading his best friend if it made the team better... basically the opposite of Keldon who needs the Power of Friendship to stay alive or he transforms into Sad Keldon.

[Tailboar]

https://youtu.be/0fejVooBSBo?si=9WAdfkobNhrBKnIe
Stanford? Couldn't hurt, locker room needs more BBIQ

[CGD]

What happened to Demin? wasnt he the in top 5?

[Mr. Body]

What happened to Demin? wasnt he the in top 5?

Against the likes of Central Arkansas and Idaho he started very strong, against tougher competition he hasn't been too great. He's more promise than results so far.

[dn0774]

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/43402156/2025-nba-draft-10-risers-radar-players-prospects



Spurs haven't add players to the team just because they were Wembanyama's buddies (Armel Traoré would be with Spurs otherwise) which is a good thing. Better not starting that and end up like Bucks with Giannis and his brothers.

If the friend is good enough to make the NBA without leveraging his relationship with Wemby to do it then great. If not, then just give the kid a "job" within the org somewhere without wasting a roster spot. Teams do it all the time and its a small amount of money to spend to keep your franchise player happy.

[mo7888]

What happened to Demin? wasnt he the in top 5?

He still looks like a very good prospect, but I don't think he's top 10 anymore. If his 3 point shot was league average, he would be, but there's work to be done there.

[cutewizard]

We have been extremely lucky for two straight years.....

May our luck continue

[mystargtr34]

If the Spurs draft at their current projection (11 and 15 via ATL) I have a feeling they will dip back into the UConn bucket and take McNeeley at 11. And I wouldn’t be mad at all at that.

Then I hope they take Rasheer Fleming at 15.

I think they will like McNeeley for his shooting, positional size, character and demeanour, little bit of playmaking chops.

Fleming is a bit older than other prospects but when I watch his highlights he really pops to me. He really passes the eye test. Looks huge on the court, moves well, perfect form on his jumper. May be a version of having Naz Reid/Santi Aldama at home.

As DAF said in another thread I look at the spurs as bein set at 3 of the 5 positions long term.

Fox
Castle
6’7 - 6’8 wing
6’8 - 6’9 wing/forward
Wemby

Then a bench with solid vets would he great.

CP3
Vassell/Champ
Sochan/Champ
Barnes/Champ
Backup C via draft or FA

I want to like Asa Newell but not sure of the fit next to Wemby he may get into Wemby rolling space. Plus I think Newell may go top 10.

Collin Murray Boyles I kinda like at the 4 spot I think he can be a good defender, rebounder and passer but not sure if the shooting can coke around.

[Biggems]

I still want Johnni Broome. I just really like his game and consistency.

He is being considered a late 1st or early 2nd.

I would be more than happy with the combo of McNeeley and Broome.

[CGD]

He still looks like a very good prospect, but I don't think he's top 10 anymore. If his 3 point shot was league average, he would be, but there's work to be done there.

Interesting. Seems like a no-brainer if he’s there around 12, just on his size and feel alone.

[John B]

I really like Danny Wolf’s game, a very smart basketball player and very poised under pressure.


https://youtu.be/5FWQX6TG1ks?si=Jd169JwXPm4LQ5Xo

[Bruno]

If the Spurs draft at their current projection (11 and 15 via ATL) I have a feeling they will dip back into the UConn bucket and take McNeeley at 11. And I wouldn’t be mad at all at that.


I think that too. Truth is Spurs have right now very options that make sense for their own pick.

The situation is the following:
- Spurs pick will likely be between 9th and 12th.
- To complete a core of Fox, Castle and Wembanyama, you need to add players that are at least decent shooters.

So who ?
Knueppel is projected to be gone before #9.
There are a lot of players projected between #7 and #22 who are sub .300 3 point shooters.
It's highly debatable that Danny Wolf can play alongside Wembanayama and fit a team that should play fast a Fox + Castle backcourt.

At that stage of the draft process, there are 2 players left for Spurs pick: McNeeley and Tre Johnson.

[spursparker9]

https://www.newsweek.com/sports/nba/duke-star-cooper-flagg-hints-return-college-over-entering-2025-nba-draft-2031765

Flagg saying he want to return to duke and not enter nba in 2025 draft :lol

[exstatic]

https://www.newsweek.com/sports/nba/duke-star-cooper-flagg-hints-return-college-over-entering-2025-nba-draft-2031765

Flagg saying he want to return to duke and not enter nba in 2025 draft :lol

Kids that age often talk out of their ass. I can’t imagine anyone in his circle actually allowing that to happen. He’s the clear#1, and that might not be the case in 2026, especially if his game gets further picked at by scouts. He’d also have to compete with Cam Boozer for touches at Duke, and compete with him and Dybantsa for #1 overall.

All that being said, it would be hilarious.

[Mr. Body]

There's no way Flagg stays. Although it'd be funny if like Filipowski last year there's some girl who has him brainwashed.

[Russ]

There's no way Flagg stays. Although it'd be funny if like Filipowski last year there's some girl who has him brainwashed.

Eve Longoria, you have your marching orders.

[mo7888]

Interesting. Seems like a no-brainer if he’s there around 12, just on his size and feel alone.
I've got him at #11 on my board. So I'd take him at 12 unless someone above him falls..

[CGD]

Kids that age often talk out of their ass. I can’t imagine anyone in his circle actually allowing that to happen. He’s the clear#1, and that might not be the case in 2026, especially if his game gets further picked at by scouts. He’d also have to compete with Cam Boozer for touches at Duke, and compete with him and Dybantsa for #1 overall.

All that being said, it would be hilarious.

I generally agree but what do you think his current NIL income is? I bet it’s not too far off the first year of the rookie scale, and/or the Duke boosters will happily make him whole if he stays another year.

What is true is that he’s putting some lotto teams on notice.

[exstatic]

I generally agree but what do you think his current NIL income is? I bet it’s not too far off the first year of the rookie scale, and/or the Duke boosters will happily make him whole if he stays another year.

What is true is that he’s putting some lotto teams on notice.

He might be able to match the $10M or so he would get as #1 in an additional year at Duke, but he risks his draft slot, and FUTURE income if he were to suffer a serious injury.

[CGD]

He might be able to match the $10M or so he would get as #1 in an additional year, but he risks his draft slot, and FUTURE income if he were to suffer a serious injury.

It’s the 10M plus whatever he’s made this year fwiw, but, totally agree, it’s a gamble even if a shitbird franchise like Charlotte wins the lottery.

[scott]

I generally agree but what do you think his current NIL income is? I bet it’s not too far off the first year of the rookie scale, and/or the Duke boosters will happily make him whole if he stays another year.

What is true is that he’s putting some lotto teams on notice.

What's the deadline to pull out of the draft? Is it before or after the lottery?

If it's after, then that is quite an interesting situation the NBA and NCAA have created with the schedule and now with NIL in play. Flagg (or some other player) could almost force a team to trade the pick if he didn't like them as a potential landing spot, like an Eli Manning type situation. He can just say "nah, I'm not playing for CHA. Trade the pick before the withdrawal deadline or I'm going back to school and I'll just make $10MM in NIL money this year. " Then it would be up to CHA to either comply or call his bluff.

Not saying Flagg would do this... but it's a new wrinkle.

Edit: looked it up and early entry withdrawal deadline is in June, well after the lottery. Honestly wouldn’t be surprised to see something like what I just described now that NIL money is in play.

[cutewizard]

https://www.newsweek.com/sports/nba/duke-star-cooper-flagg-hints-return-college-over-entering-2025-nba-draft-2031765

Flagg saying he want to return to duke and not enter nba in 2025 draft :lol

Unless he is drafted by the Spurs

[BatManu20]

No way Flagg returns to school when he's the guaranteed #1 Pick. He might not even go #1 Overall next year if Dybantsa pans out. He's gone after this year tbh.

[mo7888]

I really like Danny Wolf's game, but the more I watch the more I have a hard time seeing how he can fit alongside Wemby.

[exstatic]

No way Flagg returns to school when he's the guaranteed #1 Pick. He might not even go #1 Overall next year if Dybantsa pans out. He's gone after this year tbh.

Yeah,I think he was trolling.

[exstatic]

I really like Danny Wolf's game, but the more I watch the more I have a hard time seeing how he can fit alongside Wemby.

I think his shooting is a mirage. He’s hitting 37% on 3 attempts from the college arc, but his FT% is an awful 62.9%, a weak shooting signal.

[John B]

I think his shooting is a mirage. He’s hitting 37% on 3 attempts from the college arc, but his FT% is an awful 62.9%, a weak shooting signal.

What you can’t take away is his impact on every facet of the game, facilitating, manning the post, blocking shots. I’m perfectly okay with his 3 attempts from downtown, the guy is still a Center but he would hit them when needed. The kid is just a baller.

[mo7888]

I think his shooting is a mirage. He’s hitting 37% on 3 attempts from the college arc, but his FT% is an awful 62.9%, a weak shooting signal.

I get that the FT% is an issue, but his shot is so fluid when he doesn't have time to think about it and he sees the court so we'll. He's basically playing PF with Michigan, but I don't know if he moves well enough to be a 4 in the NBA. That's my biggest concern. Somebody is going to get a good one though.

[exstatic]

What you can’t take away is his impact on every facet of the game, facilitating, manning the post, blocking shots. I’m perfectly okay with his 3 attempts from downtown, the guy is still a Center but he would hit them when needed. The kid is just a baller.

I don’t hate him,but what you said is a lot like what was being said about Zollins.

[scott]

I admit I haven't watched a ton of him, but I definitely get that "protypical college stud who won't make it in the pros" vibe from Wolf.

As much fun as it would be to have a Wolf and a Fox on the team, I'm out on that guy.

[John B]

I don’t hate him,but what you said is a lot like what was being said about Zollins.

I always like your perspective but I hope you’re wrong about Wolf. I just love everything he does on the court especially those passes. He seems a perfect fit on a motion offense team. I’m sure Pop would love this kid and everything he brings in the court. It’s like having a 7-footer Diaw.

[John B]

Those passes is what sold me. He sees the court so well.


https://youtu.be/UyWD1KKw9Ew?si=sU8OjstsD0e6wnqL

[TrainOfThought5]

I admit I haven't watched a ton of him, but I definitely get that "protypical college stud who won't make it in the pros" vibe from Wolf.

As much fun as it would be to have a Wolf and a Fox on the team, I'm out on that guy.

The Fox/Wolf Pick and Roll?!?! Yeah we gotta draft this guy!

[baseline bum]

What's the deadline to pull out of the draft? Is it before or after the lottery?

If it's after, then that is quite an interesting situation the NBA and NCAA have created with the schedule and now with NIL in play. Flagg (or some other player) could almost force a team to trade the pick if he didn't like them as a potential landing spot, like an Eli Manning type situation. He can just say "nah, I'm not playing for CHA. Trade the pick before the withdrawal deadline or I'm going back to school and I'll just make $10MM in NIL money this year. " Then it would be up to CHA to either comply or call his bluff.

Not saying Flagg would do this... but it's a new wrinkle.

Edit: looked it up and early entry withdrawal deadline is in June, well after the lottery. Honestly wouldn’t be surprised to see something like what I just described now that NIL money is in play.

Damn, AJ Dybantsa in Paris to watch Wemby just got a lot more exciting. :stirpot:

[objective]

Wemby fits with everyone.

It's when players don't have Wemby next to them that you have to worry about.

Zollins looked bad next to Wemby, but without him he was literally unplayable and eventually racked up DNP-CDs.

Champagnie is worse off the bench because no Wemby. Sochan is worse off the bench because no Wemby. Wait until you see Barnes without Wemby for a long stretch, he'll look 5 times more washed up.

Ask what Wolf could do with Wemby, what could he or someone else bring that Wemby doesn't have 9n the team now?

Is it post ups? Real post ups? If Wemby is feeding the post I have confidence in the pass getting there. Is it screens? Is it blocking out 9r defensive rebounding? Is it a passing partner?

Could what Wolf bring help offset or counter what OKC does defensively as demonstrated in that recent Thinking Basketball video?

The horizontal rim protection racket they have going on .... Could having huge passers who can see over the top with great passing touch be what breaks it? Wolf gets a ton of turnovers at college and Wemby has been getting better, just thinking of getting the most use out of Wolf

[mo7888]

I admit I haven't watched a ton of him, but I definitely get that "protypical college stud who won't make it in the pros" vibe from Wolf.

As much fun as it would be to have a Wolf and a Fox on the team, I'm out on that guy.

I think he'll be better than Sengun. I just can't see him working beside Wemby, which is why I'll be lowering him a few spots on my board. The way I'm doing my tiers for those is: very high upside/high floor... good upside/high floor... good upside/low floor and then bench/role player.

I'll be moving him to that bench/role spot for the Spurs. He should be higher for other teams which should drop some one I have in a higher tier.

[RC_Drunkford]

Outside of the top 7 I‘d go with Demin and Fleming as of now. Those 2 are my best bets for our forward spots. Draft a back up C in the 2nd round.

[Ni-G]

You all know that we are going to pick non shooters? Taking scoring machines is not who we are.

[SpursBills]

Wemby fits with everyone.

It's when players don't have Wemby next to them that you have to worry about.

Zollins looked bad next to Wemby, but without him he was literally unplayable and eventually racked up DNP-CDs.

Champagnie is worse off the bench because no Wemby. Sochan is worse off the bench because no Wemby. Wait until you see Barnes without Wemby for a long stretch, he'll look 5 times more washed up.

Ask what Wolf could do with Wemby, what could he or someone else bring that Wemby doesn't have 9n the team now?

Is it post ups? Real post ups? If Wemby is feeding the post I have confidence in the pass getting there. Is it screens? Is it blocking out 9r defensive rebounding? Is it a passing partner?

Could what Wolf bring help offset or counter what OKC does defensively as demonstrated in that recent Thinking Basketball video?

The horizontal rim protection racket they have going on .... Could having huge passers who can see over the top with great passing touch be what breaks it? Wolf gets a ton of turnovers at college and Wemby has been getting better, just thinking of getting the most use out of Wolf

These are excellent points. Non-spurs related, but I do think that this is what Memphis may have been trying to counter when they drafted Edey last year, and what Houston's system is also trying to accomplish. OKC's system is built on speed and length, but they give up quite a bit of size especially when they don't have IHart. Edey was a historically good offensive rebounder in college, while Houston's entire mo is to try and maximize their number of possessions, as opposed to the efficiency of possessions. Both teams may not care that much about scoring efficiency on their first action, but prioritize giving themselves as many opportunities as possible.

You need enough bulk and strength to really hurt OKC on post-ups in isolation, on the boards offensively, and to clear more space on screens to give your offensive players that extra fraction of a second before their swarming defense arrives. That player also has to be able to guard in space against their offense, be able to process the floor quickly to try and pass ahead of their defense, and optimally space the floor for your guards. Wolf is one option I hadn't considered. My personal favorite counter to this team is Collin Murray-Boyles, who provides a lot of that but hasn't shown a viable outside shot yet.

[objective]

CBS Eye on College Basketball podcast a few days ago did a mock that had OKC take Wolf at via Philly and had SA take McNeely and a 6-6 sf, Drake Powell

[objective]

Something else about Wolf that catches my eye is he has a nice shot fake from 3 that allows him to drive. It's not as good as Chet's fake ... But it could get there. And Chet is right up there in the entire league with his fake ... If Wolf can be a respectable 3 point shooter AND have a high level fake and drive with his vision and passing, that's a good weapon to have

And at least he kind of seems to have active hands on defense. That goes a long way to making up for speed or athleticism, it's how Sengun has managed to be part of good defenses. Deflections, strips, blocks, steals, anything to disrupt an action is better than passively accepting whatever is coming

[exstatic]

Chet was a much better NCAA player, getting nearly all of the green dots on the TaT compare.

It would be a gift from God if OKC got Philly’s pick, and used it for such a huge reach.

[TekXX]

I hope the Spurs get Flagg

[scott]

Vecenie is doing an updated mock draft live right on on YouTube (they are on pick #26).

We had #10 and #16 (IIRC) and picked Kon Knueppel and Asa Newell (McNeeley and Fleming were both taken a few picks before each of our picks).

I'll just say this... I'm definitely not feeling all that excited about this draft. If we end up in that 10-16 range, I think we should fully expect to go back to the way rookies used to be treated around here. Lots of G-League time, sporadic playing time in their rookie year. There is just a huge drop off after the top 4-5. Definitely would not mind see us trading our picks away, assuming we got some good value back.

One other thought I had as I was listening to Matt Tynan's podcast. He claims that the Hawks were pretty desperate to get their picks back from us for Trae (but the Spurs weren't as interested). What if we could flip some of ATL's picks back to them for Jalen Johnson instead? (Not sure if ATL does this... just throwing out ideas)

[SpursBills]

Vecenie is doing an updated mock draft live right on on YouTube (they are on pick #26).

We had #10 and #16 (IIRC) and picked Kon Knueppel and Asa Newell (McNeeley and Fleming were both taken a few picks before each of our picks).

I'll just say this... I'm definitely not feeling all that excited about this draft. If we end up in that 10-16 range, I think we should fully expect to go back to the way rookies used to be treated around here. Lots of G-League time, sporadic playing time in their rookie year. There is just a huge drop off after the top 4-5. Definitely would not mind see us trading our picks away, assuming we got some good value back.

One other thought I had as I was listening to Matt Tynan's podcast. He claims that the Hawks were pretty desperate to get their picks back from us for Trae (but the Spurs weren't as interested). What if we could flip some of ATL's picks back to them for Jalen Johnson instead? (Not sure if ATL does this... just throwing out ideas)

Even though I am generally down on score-first shooting guards who can't do much else, I think that if the first 9 picks of Vecenie's mock draft played out the way he expected, Spurs would most likely take Tre Johnson 10th which would be decent value and trade Vassell at the same time.

[objective]

Vecenie is doing an updated mock draft live right on on YouTube (they are on pick #26).

We had #10 and #16 (IIRC) and picked Kon Knueppel and Asa Newell (McNeeley and Fleming were both taken a few picks before each of our picks).

I'll just say this... I'm definitely not feeling all that excited about this draft. If we end up in that 10-16 range, I think we should fully expect to go back to the way rookies used to be treated around here. Lots of G-League time, sporadic playing time in their rookie year. There is just a huge drop off after the top 4-5. Definitely would not mind see us trading our picks away, assuming we got some good value back.

One other thought I had as I was listening to Matt Tynan's podcast. He claims that the Hawks were pretty desperate to get their picks back from us for Trae (but the Spurs weren't as interested). What if we could flip some of ATL's picks back to them for Jalen Johnson instead? (Not sure if ATL does this... just throwing out ideas)

I doubt Atlanta would do it but if the Spurs could flip those picks and the swap for Jalen Johnson they should. Give em Keldon and Sochan for salary matching and it's a done deal for me.

[Strategic]

Vecenie is doing an updated mock draft live right on on YouTube (they are on pick #26).

We had #10 and #16 (IIRC) and picked Kon Knueppel and Asa Newell (McNeeley and Fleming were both taken a few picks before each of our picks).



One other thought I had as I was listening to Matt Tynan's podcast. He claims that the Hawks were pretty desperate to get their picks back from us for Trae (but the Spurs weren't as interested). What if we could flip some of ATL's picks back to them for Jalen Johnson instead? (Not sure if ATL does this... just throwing out ideas) I’d say yes but he has a poison pill contract. Not sure it’s doable.

[scott]

Even though I am generally down on score-first shooting guards who can't do much else, I think that if the first 9 picks of Vecenie's mock draft played out the way he expected, Spurs would most likely take Tre Johnson 10th which would be decent value and trade Vassell at the same time.

Yeah I'd take Tre Johnson there too over Knueppel, but my comment would be the same in that I would expect him to get the Lonnie Walker treatment (and probably rightfully so). Unless we leap up, I'm not expecting an impact player right away from this draft.

[cutewizard]

Guys, imagine if we got Cooper

This forum would explode, lol

[cutewizard]

To Mr Cooper,

Can you smell what the Spurs are cooking?

[Mr. Body]

Even though I am generally down on score-first shooting guards who can't do much else, I think that if the first 9 picks of Vecenie's mock draft played out the way he expected, Spurs would most likely take Tre Johnson 10th which would be decent value and trade Vassell at the same time.

I would jump on Tre immediately if he fell. He doesn't seem as ball dominant as I thought and plays well off ball. What wouldn't work is a ball dominant volume scorer. He's also becoming more stat productive otherwise. He's not my favorite in the draft but if he's there I take him.

[Bruno]

Vecenie's podcast was nice. I especially like how they accepted that other people could have a different evaluation on a player.

A takeaway form that podcast:
Rasheer Fleming, Hugo Gonzalez and Carter Bryant are 3 players worth keeping an eye on for Spurs.

[mystargtr34]

Carter Bryant is a guy that I like too. He would slot in nicely at the 3 and has the size to play some small ball 4.

Haven’t watched Hugo much tbh.

[Knoxxx]

Just don’t draft anyone that shoots below 35% from three, a reason I am currently out on Demin.

[RC_Drunkford]

Just don’t draft anyone that shoots below 35% from three, a reason I am currently out on Demin.

most players shoot under 35% from 3. You won't find a draft where 15 of the top 30 shoot efficiently from 3. The question is who has a good form and FT% where you are confident that they can develop into an efficient 3-point shooter.

[exstatic]

Just don’t draft anyone that shoots below 35% from three, a reason I am currently out on Demin.

I’d consider Fears below that mark. He’s got a lot of tools for a kid who will be 18 on draft night. He also shoots 85% on FTs, which would be considered a strong shooting signal.

The other side of that coin is Wolf, Who’s shooting 36% from 3, but his FT% is 62.6. Don’t trust that shot at all.

[exstatic]

Guys, imagine if we got Cooper

This forum would explode, lol

This forum would hate him in a year and a half, and be calling for his head.

[stnick2261]

This forum would hate him in a year and a half, and be calling for his head.

*half of the forum... the other half would start threads complaining about Mitch starting Sochan over Flagg.

[Knoxxx]

I’d consider Fears below that mark. He’s got a lot of tools for a kid who will be 18 on draft night. He also shoots 85% on FTs, which would be considered a strong shooting signal.

The other side of that coin is Wolf, Who’s shooting 36% from 3, but his FT% is 62.6. Don’t trust that shot at all.

Re Fears that seems like a high draft pick for a backup PG.

[Mal]

Guys, imagine if we got Cooper

This forum would explode, lol

Cooper is going Maine > Duke > Utah path

[scott]

Fantasy draft outcome I'd like to see to make the league more entertaining/fun:

NOP gets #1, drafts Flagg.

CHA gets #2, trades it to NOP for Zion (who has found Allah, commitment, and sustainable cholesterol levels), NOP drafts Harper.

New Pelicans are DJM (get well mijo)/Harper/Trey/Flagg/Missi
New Hornets are Melo, Miller, Wife Beater, Zion, Mark William's Physical

[baseline bum]

Fantasy draft outcome I'd like to see to make the league more entertaining/fun:

NOP gets #1, drafts Flagg.

CHA gets #2, trades it to NOP for Zion (who has found Allah, commitment, and sustainable cholesterol levels), NOP drafts Harper.

New Pelicans are DJM (get well mijo)/Harper/Trey/Flagg/Missi
New Hornets are Melo, Miller, Wife Beater, Zion, Mark William's Physical

Meh fuck them, cheap ass Tom Benson Wife makes them share their medical staff with the Saints and low and behold everyone is always hurt there because the Saints are the priority. They don't deserve success.

[scott]

Meh fuck them, cheap ass Tom Benson Wife makes them share their medical staff with the Saints and low and behold everyone is always hurt there because the Saints are the priority. They don't deserve success.

Okay, add in that NOP gets sold to a new ownership group led by Anne Rice, Trent Reznor Lil Wayne and Brad Pitt. Then my scenario happens.

[Mr. Body]

Okay, add in that NOP gets sold to a new ownership group led by Anne Rice, Trent Reznor Lil Wayne and Brad Pitt. Then my scenario happens.

I have bad news about Anne Rice.

[scott]

I have bad news about Anne Rice.

Can any of her parts be salvaged and sent along in the trade to CHA for use on Mark Williams?

[exstatic]

Re Fears that seems like a high draft pick for a backup PG.

Depends where he’s picked. Also depends what happens with guys like Vassell and KJ. If he has the ability to play off the ball, and that isn’t really clear yet, I don’t have a problem bringing him along slowly in the rotation or off the bench, as long as that isn’t permanent or viewed as his ceiling.

[Knoxxx]

Depends where he’s picked. Also depends what happens with guys like Vassell and KJ. If he has the ability to play off the ball, and that isn’t really clear yet, I don’t have a problem bringing him along slowly in the rotation or off the bench, as long as that isn’t permanent or viewed as his ceiling.

As currently slotted (10&15) do you see us keeping both picks this year?

[exstatic]

As currently slotted (10&15) do you see us keeping both picks this year?

My answer would depend on what they’re doing with the roster. We essentially have two open spots now,and Bassey and Mamu are ending contracts. Other players may also be on the move,either creating or using roster spots. I guess I would say that if they feel that they have roster spots,they could use both FRPs.

[Knoxxx]

My answer would depend on what they’re doing with the roster. We essentially have two open spots now,and Bassey and Mamu are ending contracts. Other players may also be on the move,either creating or using roster spots. I guess I would say that if they feel that they have roster spots,they could use both FRPs.

I like this answer because we are on a lucky streak in the draft. Why not keep pulling the handle when you know the team has multiple needs to fill. Then the new salary cap rules will also make it hugely advantageous to have performing young players on rookie deals. The board has also been fluid, Demin was once #5 now #15. McNeeley surging to #12 but still within our range. There are endless possibilities with our picks. Kalkbrenner ranked #44 we pick #40. Prospects can always be traded soon thereafter, such as Knecht.

[Vienna]

It's actually a simple calculation. If you don't win one of the top 4 picks, then you want a potential starter with a lottery pick and that's either Knueppel or McNeely in addition to Wemby, Fox and Castle. (I'm not sure about Tre). Both will probably no longer be on the board for pick 10. So the Spurs will probably have to try to trade up a few spots. We'll see who ends up getting picks 5 to 8 and whether a trade is possible. From the current perspective, for example, picks 7 and 27 would probably be better for the Spurs than 10 and 15. (With a 25-30 pick you can draft a backup big)

[CGD]

As currently slotted (10&15) do you see us keeping both picks this year?

I think so, if only to secure some cheap labor they want to develop. By the end of 2026 you have a few players who can naturally roll off their deals in Barnes, Wesley, Branham. Keldons contract looks like a good candidate to be moved by then too.

[cutewizard]

I predict we get Top Four or Five

I dunno how, just my intuition.......

[SpursBills]

Let's talk McNeeley. Even if he didn't go for 38 last week, I'm trending toward being higher on him than previously. He's been compared to Kispert in the past, but I wanted to see how he compares to other similar drafted players over the years.

Arbitrary bart torvik query:

6'7"+, 3PA/100 > 8, FT% > 80, 3P% > 35, 1st round draft picks
Basically, I wanted to look at tall wing shooters with high 3 point volume, high free throw percentage, and decent 3 point percentage - 3 quick and dirty factors predictive of future shooting

The hit rate for this query was actually very high for productive NBA players, which I've touched on before - shooting generally translates extremely reliably in taller players. Of the matches, I weeded out guys who were more shooting guards (Grady Dick) and stretch 4s (Ryan Anderson, Lauri Bird). Guys like Paul George, Trey Murphy III, Brandon Miller, and Ben Mathurin are on a different level athletically and were also weeded out.

After some subjective weeding out, this is the list: wing/forward shooters with average athleticism, positionally 3/4s




Age
USG
2Pt%
Def BPR
AST:TO
DREB%
FTR


Liam McNeeley
19
23.9
47.6
2.42
1
21
45.4


Corey Kispert
20
13.6
57.3
1.65
1.2
12.3
13.4


Cameron Johnson
21
16.3
51
0.52
2
12.8
26.1


Doug McDermott
20
28.5
63.2
-0.01
0.6
20.5
32.7


Gordon Hayward
19
19.2
51.9
-
1.2
17.8
47.8




I thought about adding Kon Knueppel to this list as he compares very favorably, but he seems much more of a 2/3 given his smaller stature.

The other 4 guys on this list all turned out to be fairly productive players. Kispert's low FT rate suggested he had difficulty with physicality and his handle was poor, and was used primarily as a spot up shooter. Cam Johnson was a poor defender, and McDermott was a bottom-tier defender. Gordon Hayward was pretty solid in all respects at the youngest age and not surprisingly turned out to be the best pro.

The most interesting thing about McNeeley here is that much like Hayward, he has a very high free throw rate which is highly unusual in high volume wing shooters. If you look at wing forward draft picks by FTR and 3PA/100, you see almost an inverse correlation. Prospects are either strong at rim pressure/free throw drawing and not great shooters (Kyle Anderson, Rui Hachimura, Aaron Gordon), or shoot a high volume of 3s but don't draw fouls (Knueppel, Jett Howard, Grady Dick, Trey Murphy III). It's fairly rare to have someone who both shoots a high volume of 3s and gets to the line a bunch. He's also not a zero on defense like quite a few of his comps, and while his AST:TO is on the low side, it's important to note that his AST% compares favorably to just about everyone on this list. He basically produces better at a younger age than many of his "wing shooter" comparisons.

Overall, while I'm not typically a fan of drafting one-dimensional shooters in the lottery, McNeeley's profile suggests that he may be more. I still don't quite know what to make of him, but we do know that 1) tall wings that exhibit a strong shooting signal early typically succeed in the league and 2) he has certain statistical indicators suggesting a much more well-rounded offensive profile and overall better player than someone who only functions as a "floor spacer". I think if you can get something between Kispert and Gordon Hayward, that would give your other forward more leeway with regards to shooting limitations.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I continue to be high on Will Riley. His stock has fallen after his horrible shooting stretch but I think the shot will translate and he’s also showing some creation upside, which would put him in an entirely different tier of prospects if real.

I know he has limitations defensively, he’s super skinny and he’d probably take a year or two to get up to speed in the NBA but long term I like him.

[ambchang]

I predict we get Top Four or Five

I dunno how, just my intuition.......

We can’t get five. At least I hope not.

[Mr. Body]

I like how productive McNeeley is on the boards. He's physical and scrappy in addition to being a shooter.

[mo7888]

I'm pretty high on McNeely too. I have him #7 overall on my board currently. On Riley, I'm a little higher than most. Currently, he's #18 on my board compared to #34 on TaT.

[SpurSpike]

In our range i'd be happy with either Knueppl or McNeeley. They are both some of the best shooters in the draft. Knueppl is a little shorter listed at 6'7" but i think he is more like 6'5"-6'6" and could be considered slightly better play maker. Kcneeley is bigger listed at 6'8" (and looks to be close to that) and is a better rebounder. Id probably take McNeeley 1st as he has that combination of size, shooting and rebounding that we need. Hell, id take both of them if we can!

[spurraider21]

I like how productive McNeeley is on the boards. He's physical and scrappy in addition to being a shooter.
can he at least adequately defend SFs?

if so, imo he's a smash grab with our earliest pick (provided we dont vault into top 4)

[SpursBills]

My ideal starting future starting 5 configuration for this team:

Offense: 2 rim pressuring guards, 2 jumbo shooting wings, mobile center who gets offensive boards, screens, DHO ballhandler
Defense: 1 quick guard to defend jitterbug PGs, 2 strong/long POA defenders, Wemby at center

At the beginning of the season:
Jeremiah Fears, Castle, Markannen, Sochan, Wemby
Fears and Castle to pressure the rim, Wemby and Lauri as your jumbo shooting wings, Sochan as your mobile center

I still think this is the optimal configuration, but now with more information and the Fox trade, we can adjust this a little bit:
Fox, Castle, McNeeley, Collin Murray-Boyles, Wemby
Fox and Castle to pressure the rim, Wemby and McNeeley as your jumbo shooting wings, CMB as your mobile center and second POA defender after Castle

If McNeeley and CMB are who their numbers and tape suggest they are, this has the potential to be a monster lineup. Fox is basically Fears' 80th percentile outcome, while McNeeley's shooting numbers suggest he can pull off a reasonable poor man's impression of Lauri offensively while not giving up as much defensively (defensive BPR 2.4 for McNeeley vs 1.1 for Lauri, age 19 season). As for CMB, I will go into detail later in the year, but based on both film and numbers so far (combination of body type, 'feel' stats, other metrics), this is the closest any prospect has come to Draymond's archetype since Draymond. I envision him acting as a DHO hub, constantly setting illegal Bam-style screens to either free up shooters or get guards to the rim while playmaking out of the short roll, and bodying smaller guys switched onto him.

Best part of this lineup? Don't even need a top 4 pick in the lottery. Just a little bit of luck with the Hawks losing the play-in and maybe a few bad McNeeley performances to tank his stock a little bit, and you can reasonable see these guys attainable at 9 and 12.

[scott]

My ideal starting future starting 5 configuration for this team:

Offense: 2 rim pressuring guards, 2 jumbo shooting wings, mobile center who gets offensive boards, screens, DHO ballhandler
Defense: 1 quick guard to defend jitterbug PGs, 2 strong/long POA defenders, Wemby at center

At the beginning of the season:
Jeremiah Fears, Castle, Markannen, Sochan, Wemby
Fears and Castle to pressure the rim, Wemby and Lauri as your jumbo shooting wings, Sochan as your mobile center

I still think this is the optimal configuration, but now with more information and the Fox trade, we can adjust this a little bit:
Fox, Castle, McNeeley, Collin Murray-Boyles, Wemby
Fox and Castle to pressure the rim, Wemby and McNeeley as your jumbo shooting wings, CMB as your mobile center and second POA defender after Castle

If McNeeley and CMB are who their numbers and tape suggest they are, this has the potential to be a monster lineup. Fox is basically Fears' 80th percentile outcome, while McNeeley's shooting numbers suggest he can pull off a reasonable poor man's impression of Lauri offensively while not giving up as much defensively (defensive BPR 2.4 for McNeeley vs 1.1 for Lauri, age 19 season). As for CMB, I will go into detail later in the year, but based on both film and numbers so far (combination of body type, 'feel' stats, other metrics), this is the closest any prospect has come to Draymond's archetype since Draymond. I envision him acting as a DHO hub, constantly setting illegal Bam-style screens to either free up shooters or get guards to the rim while playmaking out of the short roll, and bodying smaller guys switched onto him.

Best part of this lineup? Don't even need a top 4 pick in the lottery. Just a little bit of luck with the Hawks losing the play-in and maybe a few bad McNeeley performances to tank his stock a little bit, and you can reasonable see these guys attainable at 9 and 12.

Looking forward to your CMB report.

I'm pretty sold on McNeeley in our range. I don't think he's plug-and-play ready, but I don't think anyone is in our range. I'd expect whoever we pick around #10 to get the same kind of rookie treatment that Vassell did (as opposed to Sochan), and I think that is both okay and appropriate.

I liked the way McNeeley moved off the ball when I saw him live in Maui. He's grown a lot as a player since then.

[SpurSpike]

Maybe with our second round pick we get 7'1" center Ryan Kalkbrenner. Good shot blocker/rebounder and has potential to stretch the floor.

[bluebellmaniac]

Rocco Zikarsky
7'3"

[cutewizard]

Spurs had the best scouts during our golden years

Hope they can unearth some jewels again....

[ginobilized]

George Felton has been head of college scouting for the Spurs since 2006.
He was instrumental in drafting Castle after assessing his insane level of coachability and mental toughness. I trust his read on this bunch of college players.
It will be interesting to see if the Spurs go foreign or domestic with their higher picks.

[rascal]

George Felton has been head of college scouting for the Spurs since 2006.
He was instrumental in drafting Castle after assessing his insane level of coachability and mental toughness. I trust his read on this bunch of college players.
It will be interesting to see if the Spurs go foreign or domestic with their higher picks.

Many here would have drafed Castle at 4. That wasn't so hard to figure. Who was responsible for drafting Primo?

[ginobilized]

Many here would have drafed Castle at 4. That wasn't so hard to figure. Who was responsible for drafting Primo?

The Spurs might've missed some psychological evaluation on Primo. Or, he might've had it very well hidden right up until he whipped it out in their faces.
Either way, I tend to think that the Spurs wanted a tall, strong 2-way guard as part of their plan. They got themselves a better one.

I think that they'll sift through the wings and forwards and get the right players in this draft. Castle, Wemby and Fox give them something around which to build, unlike the team that was here when Primo was drafted.

[LeBowen]

Literally me right now:
https://streamable.com/vncmyf

[BackHome]

Well sad to say but with Wemby being out we got a decent chance of getting a top 5 pick

[John B]

Those FRP’s become more valuable now if anything long term happen to Victor (I hope not). That 2027 FRP unprotected to SAC. Do they keep the future picks? Or do they re-tool with DeAaron Fox and Castle as center pieces? I’m hoping they get top 4 this draft.

[spurraider21]

think its plenty realistic we wind up ahead of portland. i also dont think sixers are "shutting it down" but they're just bad regardless. dont think we will vault over brooklyn, i dont think toronto will start winning games just because of ingram.

i think realistic best case outcome for us is #7, after wizards/pelicans/jazz/hornets/raptors/nets. that would put us at about a 32% chance to jump into the top 4. thats where there seems to be the big cutoff this year, with Flagg in a tier of his own, Harper on his own, and then bailey/edgecombe the next guys up. pretty significant drop after 4

https://i.gyazo.com/939469a7eec0baa969f40ef71285dc46.png

[scott]

I know the Wemby news is still fresh... but Maluach just become much more of a potential option.

If we somehow landed #1 and ATL finished around #12 (which is what I expect despite them being out of the Lottery right now), then I'd take Flagg and Maluach (if he's still there) and not look back. Would still trade Devin in the offseason for a legit SF. Fox/Castle/SF/Flagg/Maluach is your new "young core" in the event Wemby's issue is longer term... if Wemby does come back, we'll we've got an elite backup C or maybe you even go twin towers with Fox/Castle/Flagg/Wemby/Maluach

[mo7888]

I know the Wemby news is still fresh... but Maluach just become much more of a potential option.

If we somehow landed #1 and ATL finished around #12 (which is what I expect despite them being out of the Lottery right now), then I'd take Flagg and Maluach (if he's still there) and not look back. Would still trade Devin in the offseason for a legit SF. Fox/Castle/SF/Flagg/Maluach is your new "young core" in the event Wemby's issue is longer term... if Wemby does come back, we'll we've got an elite backup C or maybe you even go twin towers with Fox/Castle/Flagg/Wemby/Maluach

Hopefully we'll have a better understanding of Wemby's long term prognosis by then so we'll know if Maluach makes more sense or less.

[scott]

Hopefully we'll have a better understanding of Wemby's long term prognosis by then so we'll know if Maluach makes more sense or less.

Honestly in the scenario where we landed Flagg, I'd take Maluach either way. This scare should be enough to get us to stop fucking around with any kind of backup plan. Wemby is a Ferrari, it makes sense to have the best insurance. And if we had Flagg, we would have less need for a high end 5th starter. Even Champ would be fine. Just need someone who plays decent D and can shoot.

[stnick2261]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp4but75EjY

My family hasn't been watching the NBA in the past few years and my brother keeps saying we need a good (Big and Slow) Post player. This is a good video explaining the modern era (and uses the Spurs in the modern example). After watching this, I'm more convinced that we need shooters and players with fast processing speed. We just need smart players we can read the defense and change what they are doing so quickly. That's what is so good about Jokic... and also what I like about Castle.

Maluach definitely has the physical characteristics, but I don't like how it was reported the Duke coach had to dumb down his offense so Maluach could understand what to do on the court.

[mo7888]

Honestly in the scenario where we landed Flagg, I'd take Maluach either way. This scare should be enough to get us to stop fucking around with any kind of backup plan. Wemby is a Ferrari, it makes sense to have the best insurance. And if we had Flagg, we would have less need for a high end 5th starter. Even Champ would be fine. Just need someone who plays decent D and can shoot.

If Wemby is fine then I wouldn't use a high pick on Maluach, if that's still in question, I'd do it. If Wemby is healthy you can get a 2nd rd C that can fill that role.

[thOOdee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp4but75EjY

My family hasn't been watching the NBA in the past few years and my brother keeps saying we need a good (Big and Slow) Post player. This is a good video explaining the modern era (and uses the Spurs in the modern example). After watching this, I'm more convinced that we need shooters and players with fast processing speed. We just need smart players we can read the defense and change what they are doing so quickly. That's what is so good about Jokic... and also what I like about Castle.

Maluach definitely has the physical characteristics, but I don't like how it was reported the Duke coach had to dumb down his offense so Maluach could understand what to do on the court.

looking back at how the spurs ran things with Splitter, I think IQ for a bigman should play a major factor. And with many of our current roster not fitting the high IQ mold, I would agreee spurs need to be especially weary of any slow thinking players.

[BackHome]

The best case scenario would be us getting the first and let’s say tenth pick which I would go Flagg and then Liam McNeeley. After that I would use our 37th pick on a Center and also pick up a vet Center in the summer.

The harder one would be if we get the 4th pick in which I might go with VJ and then might go with Fleming with Atlanta pick and then a Center with second round pick.

[John B]

looking back at how the spurs ran things with Splitter, I think IQ for a bigman should play a major factor. And with many of our current roster not fitting the high IQ mold, I would agreee spurs need to be especially weary of any slow thinking players.

I don’t think you can find a higher bball IQ than Michigan big man Danny Wolf. Former Yale guy before transferring to Michigan. He sees the court very well. Moves like a guard, Shoots 37% downtown, while 62% FT (I don’t doubt he’ll improve). And already plays with another big man in Michigan. I’d be happy to get him with one of Spurs FRP’s.


https://youtube.com/shorts/X_9VFWSsLV0?si=1jpCUY5pZpuZTjQv

[mo7888]

The best case scenario would be us getting the first and let’s say tenth pick which I would go Flagg and then Liam McNeeley. After that I would use our 37th pick on a Center and also pick up a vet Center in the summer.

The harder one would be if we get the 4th pick in which I might go with VJ and then might go with Fleming with Atlanta pick and then a Center with second round pick.

McNeely or Knueppel would be my pick at #10, one should be available. Definitely Flagg at #1. If we are 2-4 I'd go Edgecombe, the Harper, then Ace. Get the 2nd rd C and a vet (as you said).

[Knoxxx]

With Brooklyn on a recent win streak we are only 3 wins ahead of both them and PHI for the 6 spot. If we really tailspin to the tune of something like 6-24 we have a real shot at even catching up to TOR who would only need to go 12-25 for us to tie them. It would also be nice to see ATL who hovers on the fringe of the lottery fall back in to further boost our odds of moving up.

[Dejounte]

Derik Queen has to be the pick now tbh. Wemby can’t be depended on for ALL front court offense especially when his career is in doubt.

[DAF86]

Derik Queen has to be the pick now tbh. Wemby can’t be depended on for ALL front court offense especially when his career is in doubt.

The pick needs to be best talent available, regaedless of position, imho.

[Knoxxx]

The pick needs to be best talent available, regaedless of position, imho.

Queen would be a much more reasonable target with the ATL pick unless of course their pick struck lotto gold again into a 1-4 slot.

[Dejounte]

The pick needs to be best talent available, regaedless of position, imho.
He’s one of the BPA in the teens.

[Obstructed_View]

Spurs will get 1 and 2 in the lottery. Mavericks fans will never recover.

[rascal]

With Brooklyn on a recent win streak we are only 3 wins ahead of both them and PHI for the 6 spot. If we really tailspin to the tune of something like 6-24 we have a real shot at even catching up to TOR who would only need to go 12-25 for us to tie them. It would also be nice to see ATL who hovers on the fringe of the lottery fall back in to further boost our odds of moving up.

Toronto only has 27 games left not 37.

[Knoxxx]

Toronto only has 27 games left not 37.

Good catch, so 2-25 then! Maybe we not catching TOR in the loss column.

[cutewizard]

I know the Wemby news is still fresh... but Maluach just become much more of a potential option.

If we somehow landed #1 and ATL finished around #12 (which is what I expect despite them being out of the Lottery right now), then I'd take Flagg and Maluach (if he's still there) and not look back. Would still trade Devin in the offseason for a legit SF. Fox/Castle/SF/Flagg/Maluach is your new "young core" in the event Wemby's issue is longer term... if Wemby does come back, we'll we've got an elite backup C or maybe you even go twin towers with Fox/Castle/Flagg/Wemby/Maluach


Perfect

I like Maluach

[cutewizard]

Cooooooooooooooooper

FLAGG!!!!!!

[Mal]

If we somehow landed #1 and ATL finished around #12 (which is what I expect despite them being out of the Lottery right now), then I'd take Flagg and Maluach (if he's still there) and not look back. Would still trade Devin in the offseason for a legit SF. Fox/Castle/SF/Flagg/Maluach is your new "young core" in the event Wemby's issue is longer term... if Wemby does come back, we'll we've got an elite backup C or maybe you even go twin towers with Fox/Castle/Flagg/Wemby/Maluach

Oh, we already are in post wemby era. Thats a bummer

[rankingtear]

You guys gotta chill. Every move has to be on the assumption that Wemby is coming back. Getting an insurance is some GSW light years ahead two timeline move.

[exstatic]

Oh, we already are in post wemby era. Thats a bummer

Brandon Ingram and Ausar Thompson say you’re wrong. They’ve both recovered from upper extremity DVT, and are playing without restrictions. Ingram had it when he was with the Lakers, so it’s been a while. Ausar had it last year, and is back playing full time.

[Bruno]

You guys gotta chill. Every move has to be on the assumption that Wemby is coming back. Getting an insurance is some GSW light years ahead two timeline move.

Agree. What Spurs are expecting about Wemby's injury is to be an one time thing and him being back for the training camp. This injury isn't also linked with him playing too much minutes.

This injury should change nothing related to Spurs' draft plan and more globally their rebuilding plan. The only impact could be that Spurs get a slightly better pick this year (maybe one or two spot higher).

[Vienna]

Brandon Ingram and Ausar Thompson say you’re wrong. They’ve both recovered from upper extremity DVT, and are playing without restrictions. Ingram had it when he was with the Lakers, so it’s been a while. Ausar had it last year, and is back playing full time.

add Anderson Varajao and Mirza Teletovic. they all fully recoverd. (unfortunately Varejao had so many other injuries)

[Mal]

Brandon Ingram and Ausar Thompson say you’re wrong. They’ve both recovered from upper extremity DVT, and are playing without restrictions. Ingram had it when he was with the Lakers, so it’s been a while. Ausar had it last year, and is back playing full time.

I know, I read that Wemby will be fine and ready for next season, expected making full recovery - thats why make this post about non-Wemby starting 5

[John B]

Brandon Ingram and Ausar Thompson say you’re wrong. They’ve both recovered from upper extremity DVT, and are playing without restrictions. Ingram had it when he was with the Lakers, so it’s been a while. Ausar had it last year, and is back playing full time.

That’s wonderful news. I think they just shut Fox down and get his surgery, make the most of the situation and get us the highest chance on the draft pick, top 4 would be great! Plus Danny Wolf :lol

[rascal]

If the Spurs don't shut Fox down I don't see them falling any lower than what they currently are at 10.
Portland is going to pull their players and tank, Sixers are going to tank to keep their pick and Chicago and Brooklyn aren't good.

If the Spurs want to win games they aren't going to fall below those teams.

[Guru of Nothing]

After seeing the positive effect Biyombo had on last night's game with his big body in the interior, my interest in Danny Wolf is ramping way up.

Anyway, #12 Michigan faces #14 Michigan State tonight on Fox Sports and should feature Wolf along with MichSt PG/SG Jase Richardson (probably not on Spurs radar).

Also, don't ignore 7' 1" center Vladislav Goldin on UMich as a 2nd round big. I think he's a fringe 2nd rounder right now, but frequently when looking for Wolf highlights I come away impressed by Goldin. He's maybe a + or ++ version of a Plumlee type center. He's about to turn 24, so there's that too. He and Wolf have deevloped into a nice big-man tandem as well, if that's worth anything. Also, he's 8 of 18 from 3, which is interesting; he never once took a 3-point attempt in over a 100+ games with FAU priior to his transfer to UM.

Recent highlights:

2GnmN21vdhw

[John B]

After seeing the positive effect Biyombo had on last night's game with his big body in the interior, my interest in Danny Wolf is ramping way up.

Anyway, #12 Michigan faces #14 Michigan State tonight on Fox Sports and should feature Wolf along with MichSt PG/SG Jase Richardson (probably not on Spurs radar).

Also, don't ignore 7' 1" center Vladislav Goldin on UMich as a 2nd round big. I think he's a fringe 2nd rounder right now, but frequently when looking for Wolf highlights I come away impressed by Goldin. He's maybe a + or ++ version of a Plumlee type center. He's about to turn 24, so there's that too. He and Wolf have deevloped into a nice big-man tandem as well, if that's worth anything. Also, he's 8 of 18 from 3, which is interesting; he never once took a 3-point attempt in over a 100+ games with FAU priior to his transfer to UM.

Recent highlights:

2GnmN21vdhw

Danny Wolf is my guy. I see a lot of Diaw, David Lee in him, high bball IQ and contributes in many way, plus he’s already playing with another big man. I just think he’s a winner or at least will have a long career in the NBA with his skills.

[scott]

I know, I read that Wemby will be fine and ready for next season, expected making full recovery - thats why make this post about non-Wemby starting 5

You could have read the entire post you were responding to, where it clearly said "in the event" and then goes on to talk about when Wemby does come back, the scenario leaves you with a significantly better backup C, or the option to play twin towers and put Wemby at the 4.

But instead you chose derp.

[Mugen]

Essengue is still my guy with the lower 1st rounder tbh. Will be the Sochan replacement in 2-3 years IMO.

[spurraider21]

i feel like its bad juju to pine for the #1 overall pick. too greedy after landing wemby

im on team ace bailey as far as draft day wishes

[ffadicted]

Draft experts, is there any team out there that might make sense for us to package, say, the 9th and 11th pick to move up the draft ladder with? Or any players between 5-8 it'd make sense to do so? Or is it really top 4 or bust as far as great talent in this draft.

[scott]

i feel like its bad juju to pine for the #1 overall pick. too greedy after landing wemby

im on team ace bailey as far as draft day wishes

Honestly I'm completely content with the 10th and 12th pick in this draft (or wherever they land in the natural scheme of things)... and I'm completely content with trading one of those picks away like we did with #8 last year if the opportunity presents itself.

While landing a Top 4 pick sounds nice, and this is going to sound strange, I think it almost leads to too much of an embarrassment of riches. If we land Flagg, then there will need to be a pretty monumental shift in the way we think about our team. Castle goes from being part of our future Big 3 to more of a Derrick White-like supporting character. This sounds pretty awesome, but that fits Derrick White because that is Derrick's 90th percentile outcome, whereas it might only be Steph's 60 percentile outcome... so now you suboptimized Steph. The same is probably true of Dylan Harper, whereas with Edgecombe and Bailey they may be better suited as supporting cast for the Wemby/Fox/Castle big 3.

These are, as they say, winners problems... good ones to have... but part of me would kind of just rather see us build around our big 3 of Wemby/Fox/Castle with smart, solid role players - the Harrison Barnes of the league. This will also be more sustainable for our team.

I know this sounds counterintuitive and maybe even kind of stupid, because you should always want to add the best players you can, but I'm really excited about our future big 3 of Wemby/Fox/Castle and I want to see us build around them. I don't think a Big 4 is achievable or sustainable. BOS might be the closest with Tatum/Brown/Tingus/Jrue/Derrick... but they also have a roster that this ownership group will never pay for.

I'll be happy if we land a Top 4... but honestly if we landed 2-4 (I'm taking Flagg no matter what), I might be an advocate for trading that pick away. Would NOP take #2 and Vassell for Trey Murphy? Would POR possibly do #3 and Keldon for Camara and Clingan? I'd be targeting rebuilding teams with young up and comers on cheap deals... might be overthinking things though.

[scott]

Draft experts, is there any team out there that might make sense for us to package, say, the 9th and 11th pick to move up the draft ladder with? Or any players between 5-8 it'd make sense to do so? Or is it really top 4 or bust as far as great talent in this draft.

I struggle to see a scenario where any team would want to go from the Top 5 (that is where most folks I trust seem to have a huge tier break) to two mid to late lotto picks, but I could definitely see a scenario where say the Spurs were in love with Liam McNeeley and wanted to get up to #6 to take him and could package 9 and 11. The draft seems pretty flat from 6 to around 16 according to the guys I listen to.

I think that would be doable, just maybe not a great use of assets. If McNeeley is the guy you really want, I'd rather just sit tight at 9 and hope he is there, and be happy with taking Knueppel or Tre Johnson if he doesn't make it. Then look to pull of a MIN like trade with #11 for future draft capital if one presents itself, or take BPA, or move #11 for a proven player.

Caveat: I am definitely not super high on this draft outside of the Top 5... which is strange considering I also don't really want us to take a guy in the Top 5 (see my post above).

[stnick2261]

Of what I believe the needs of the team are: 1) Shooting, 2) BBIQ/Processing Speed, and 3) Forward/Center (3-5) positions

The players I want are completely scattered through the first round:

Cooper Flagg
Kon Knueppel (I'm assuming about his BBIQ)
Liam McNeeley
Egor Demin (including him because he's 6'9" even though he's a PG/SG)
Danny Wolf

Wherever we end up, these are the names I'm hoping to hear.

[RC_Drunkford]

i feel like its bad juju to pine for the #1 overall pick. too greedy after landing wemby

im on team ace bailey as far as draft day wishes

same

[LeBowen]

I'd be happy with any wing who has a let's say Bridges upside.
~18ppg on 37-40% from 3pt and positive defense.
Can't ask for more with such odds.

Malauch also intrigues me, he had a great game for Sudan against USA last summer.

[Mr. Body]

Of what I believe the needs of the team are: 1) Shooting, 2) BBIQ/Processing Speed, and 3) Forward/Center (3-5) positions

The players I want are completely scattered through the first round:

Cooper Flagg
Kon Knueppel (I'm assuming about his BBIQ)
Liam McNeeley
Egor Demin (including him because he's 6'9" even though he's a PG/SG)
Danny Wolf

Wherever we end up, these are the names I'm hoping to hear.

So, the white guys. Do you work for the Musk administration?

[Mugen]

Of what I believe the needs of the team are: 1) Shooting, 2) BBIQ/Processing Speed, and 3) Forward/Center (3-5) positions

The players I want are completely scattered through the first round:

Cooper Flagg
Kon Knueppel (I'm assuming about his BBIQ)
Liam McNeeley
Egor Demin (including him because he's 6'9" even though he's a PG/SG)
Danny Wolf

Wherever we end up, these are the names I'm hoping to hear.

Some real gym rats in that list, lunch pail carrying salt of the earth amiright

[spurraider21]

Some real gym rats in that list, lunch pail carrying salt of the earth amiright
type of guy you'd want to fuck your daughter

[scott]

I'd be happy with any wing who has a let's say Bridges upside.
~18ppg on 37-40% from 3pt and positive defense.
Can't ask for more with such odds.

Malauch also intrigues me, he had a great game for Sudan against USA last summer.

Not directly a comment on your post, but what do you think is a realistic expectation/hope for a 4th option on a team in terms of scoring? I see a lot of folks talking about Devin as an 18-19ppg scorer, but leaving Devin aside, assuming our big 3 is Wemby/Fox/Castle, what is a realistic expectations for points from these guys?

Wemby and Fox are already 25ppg scorers. Say Castle becomes an 18ppg guy. What can a team realistically expect out of it's 4th option? I ask because I see a lot of lofty expectations or hopes thrown around, but scoring 116/gm makes you a top 10 scoring team... not everyone can average 15+.

Celtics big 3 is averaging 69 ppg this season, and their 4th option (Derrick) is at 16ppg. The 17-18 Warriors that three 20ppg scorers had their big 3 averaging 72.8ppg and their 4th leading scorer (Draymond) only averaged 11ppg.

[scott]

type of guy you'd want to fuck your daughter

Endless motor on these guys, big heart

[rascal]

So, the white guys. Do you work for the Musk administration?

This is horrible, wishing for Knuepple if you miss on Flagg.

[LeBowen]

Not directly a comment on your post, but what do you think is a realistic expectation/hope for a 4th option on a team in terms of scoring? I see a lot of folks talking about Devin as an 18-19ppg scorer, but leaving Devin aside, assuming our big 3 is Wemby/Fox/Castle, what is a realistic expectations for points from these guys?

That's a great question and that's why I said we don't really need another star after Fox acquisition, would have too many mouths to feed.
If we assume it's going to be Fox/Castle/Wemby as the core, I honestly don't see how can Devin start with them unless he makes a big, unexpected leap which is very unlikely to happen.

Imo, the best realistic outcome for Devin is to drop the main character act and accept the 6th man role.

Fox/Castle/Devin as the three man guard rotation for the playoffs, with another solid backup PG for regular season load management.
If Devin can't be that 6th man, we get someone else for the role.

Two reliable (key word) 3-D wings to average ~25ppg between them. We went over the potential targets many times, no need to do it again.
Get one of those guys in free agancy or via trade and draft the other one. Keep Barnes as a mentor until the rookie is ready to take over in a couple of years.
Champ as the bench shooter and Jeremy as the glue guy who gets the worst possible assignments because he can't shoot.

Backup big needs to be a physical rebounder/rim protector, would be great if he can shoot, but not a must.

Imo, those are the obvious needs and there's no need to overcomplicate it if Wemby can stay healthy.

[scott]

That's a great question and that's why I said we don't really need another star after Fox acquisition, would have too many mouths to feed.
If we assume it's going to be Fox/Castle/Wemby as the core, I honestly don't see how can Devin start with them unless he makes a big, unexpected leap which is very unlikely to happen.

Imo, the best realistic outcome for Devin is to drop the main character act and accept the 6th man role.

Fox/Castle/Devin as the three man guard rotation for the playoffs, with another solid backup PG for regular season load management.
If Devin can't be that 6th man, we get someone else for the role.

Two reliable (key word) 3-D wings to average ~25ppg between them. We went over the potential targets many times, no need to do it again.
Get one of those guys in free agancy or via trade and draft the other one. Keep Barnes as a mentor until the rookie is ready to take over in a couple of years.
Champ as the bench shooter and Jeremy as the glue guy who gets the worst possible assignments because he can't shoot.

Backup big needs to be a physical rebounder/rim protector, would be great if he can shoot, but not a must.

Imo, those are the obvious needs and there's no need to overcomplicate it if Wemby can stay healthy.

Yeah, this is why I'm not too worried about jumping into the Top 4.

Just keep surrounding Fox/Castle/Wemby with solid, Barnes-like players. I'm comfortable with our star power at this point. The only thing that would change that would be some unexpected horrible news that Wemby is retiring... in which case I will erect the Voodoo Shrine in my home and begin ritual sacrifices to land Flagg.

[cd98]

Hey let us dream that the Wemby injury allows us to draft our next Tim Duncan to pair with Wemby.

[scott]

Setting aside the Top 4, what does everything about the idea of doubling up on size? Something like two of CMB/Fleming/Newell/Essengue?/Queen?

We could then make someone like Laravia our FA priority with our MLE (something like 3/36 for him) and have LaRavia/Barnes/Champ as our SFs and load up the PF pipeline?

[Russ]

Setting aside the Top 4, what does everything about the idea of doubling up on size? Something like two of CMB/Fleming/Newell/Essengue?/Queen?

We could then make someone like Laravia our FA priority with our MLE (something like 3/36 for him) and have LaRavia/Barnes/Champ as our SFs and load up the PF pipeline?

CMB -- a bit small and a bit old

Fleming -- a bit more old

Newell -- a bit intriguing

Essengue -- a potential bargain

Queen -- too big and slow (would just get in the way)

[Thomas82]

i feel like its bad juju to pine for the #1 overall pick. too greedy after landing wemby

im on team ace bailey as far as draft day wishes

Right on!! Any combination of Ace Bailey, Asa Newell, or Danny Wolf will work for me.

[RC_Drunkford]

Not directly a comment on your post, but what do you think is a realistic expectation/hope for a 4th option on a team in terms of scoring? I see a lot of folks talking about Devin as an 18-19ppg scorer, but leaving Devin aside, assuming our big 3 is Wemby/Fox/Castle, what is a realistic expectations for points from these guys?

Wemby and Fox are already 25ppg scorers. Say Castle becomes an 18ppg guy. What can a team realistically expect out of it's 4th option? I ask because I see a lot of lofty expectations or hopes thrown around, but scoring 116/gm makes you a top 10 scoring team... not everyone can average 15+.

Celtics big 3 is averaging 69 ppg this season, and their 4th option (Derrick) is at 16ppg. The 17-18 Warriors that three 20ppg scorers had their big 3 averaging 72.8ppg and their 4th leading scorer (Draymond) only averaged 11ppg.

you need knock down shooters with elite defense. Their scoring is not that important, they just have to be able to make open shots at a high rate and guard.


CMB -- a bit small and a bit old

Fleming -- a bit more old

Newell -- a bit intriguing

Essengue -- a potential bargain

Queen -- too big and slow (would just get in the way)

:lol @ thinking 20 and 21 is old

[RC_Drunkford]

Setting aside the Top 4, what does everything about the idea of doubling up on size? Something like two of CMB/Fleming/Newell/Essengue?/Queen?

We could then make someone like Laravia our FA priority with our MLE (something like 3/36 for him) and have LaRavia/Barnes/Champ as our SFs and load up the PF pipeline?

We should definitely draft a PF. Fleming and CMB are ahead of the pack if you ask me. I give Fleming the edge cause he can shoot the 3. Can stay in front of guys, has a 7'2'' wingspan, can block shots and has an NBA body. Super underrated in my book.

CMB is a Draymond type with elite defense, the problem is his 3-point shot. You'd have to split minutes with him and Jeremy in the rotation. But then again his shooting form is not nearly as bad as Sochan's.

Newell and Essengue are projects to me. I'd rather go with the other 2.

[CGD]

So, the white guys. Do you work for the Musk administration?

Lol

[rascal]

Yeah, this is why I'm not too worried about jumping into the Top 4.

Just keep surrounding Fox/Castle/Wemby with solid, Barnes-like players. I'm comfortable with our star power at this point. The only thing that would change that would be some unexpected horrible news that Wemby is retiring... in which case I will erect the Voodoo Shrine in my home and begin ritual sacrifices to land Flagg.

Barnes type of players disappear too often.

I'd rather see the Spurs land in the top four and get a player with a higher ceiling especially now with the uncertainty of Wemby's health.

[John B]

We should definitely draft a PF. Fleming and CMB are ahead of the pack if you ask me. I give Fleming the edge cause he can shoot the 3. Can stay in front of guys, has a 7'2'' wingspan, can block shots and has an NBA body. Super underrated in my book.

CMB is a Draymond type with elite defense, the problem is his 3-point shot. You'd have to split minutes with him and Jeremy in the rotation. But then again his shooting form is not nearly as bad as Sochan's.

Newell and Essengue are projects to me. I'd rather go with the other 2.

Is it a SF/PF or a PF/C that Spurs need? Spurs don’t really have an answer to likes of Zubac, Embiid, Jokic, even sometimes Sengun, big body Centers who like to put their weight on Wemby. Sochan is definitely not the answer, and I would hate for Spurs to draft another tweener, i.e. Keldon, Sochan. I thought Samanic was a good size but didn’t have the motor. I rather they draft a good size PF/C who can man the post but nimble enough and can shoot. That’s why I like Danny Wolf who’s slowly going up the draft. Sure I’d like another athletic SF, but I wish they draft the likes of Danny Wolf with their 2nd FRP.

[Guru of Nothing]

I'm too dumb (or lazy, take your pick) to figure out how to post a YouTube link to start at a specific time.

A mixed bag from Danny Wolf last night. 11 points, 7 RBs, 8 assists, with a couple of glorious highlights to maintain his upward trajectory; but UM also got handled by Mich St (MSU looked excellent).


Check out the span from 2:30 to 3:00, and then again at 9:30, and tell me which highlight you like more.

VqvWTFTQlQk?t=165

[Duncan2177]

Is it a SF/PF or a PF/C that Spurs need? Spurs don’t really have an answer to likes of Zubac, Embiid, Jokic, even sometimes Sengun, big body Centers who like to put their weight on Wemby. Sochan is definitely not the answer, and I would hate for Spurs to draft another tweener, i.e. Keldon, Sochan. I thought Samanic was a good size but didn’t have the motor. I rather they draft a good size PF/C who can man the post but nimble enough and can shoot. That’s why I like Danny Wolf who’s slowly going up the draft. Sure I’d like another athletic SF, but I wish they draft the likes of Danny Wolf with their 2nd FRP.

Andre Drummond would be a great back up for Wemby. Just my opinion

[John B]

I'm too dumb (or lazy, take your pick) to figure out how to post a YouTube link to start at a specific time.

A mixed bag from Danny Wolf last night. 11 points, 7 RBs, 8 assists, with a couple of glorious highlights to maintain his upward trajectory; but UM also got handled by Mich St (MSU looked excellent).


Check out the span from 2:30 to 3:00, and then again at 9:30, and tell me which highlight you like more.

VqvWTFTQlQk?t=165

I thought Danny Wolf should’ve been more aggressive offensively but again he distributed (not counting hockey passes) and rebounded. But which is what he brings as a Diaw-type of player, imo.

I just know he’s gonna be a Spurs or a Celtic with that hair :lol:lol

But boy those nifty passes, diving for the ball, finding the open man. You just know he’ll make the right play.

[onechance87]

I'm too dumb (or lazy, take your pick) to figure out how to post a YouTube link to start at a specific time.

A mixed bag from Danny Wolf last night. 11 points, 7 RBs, 8 assists, with a couple of glorious highlights to maintain his upward trajectory; but UM also got handled by Mich St (MSU looked excellent).


Check out the span from 2:30 to 3:00, and then again at 9:30, and tell me which highlight you like more.

VqvWTFTQlQk?t=165


is he a good defender tho

[objective]

Andre Drummond would be a great back up for Wemby. Just my opinion

The philly fans I've heard on podcasts hate Drummond passionately and are mad that he has a player option for next year. Basically he's not the player he used to be

[Dejounte]

Danny Wolf isn’t going to help stop these 20 pt runs opposing teams suddenly make out of nowhere during games. The key needs are defense and rebounding.

[Russ]

:lol @ thinking 20 and 21 is old

It's pretty crazy to think about.

But I did a quick look at the top ten picks in the last four drafts and only 6 of those 40 draftees weren't teenagers when drafted.

In other words only 6 of 40 top ten picks were 20 or older (I might have missed one or two in my quick survey but that's what I got).

So if you're using one of those top ten picks, age seems to be a big factor in who you take.

[pad300]

Is it a SF/PF or a PF/C that Spurs need? ...

That's actually a key question that the Spurs need to settle on an answer for. Last year, Wemby was playing C, very definitely. DAF86 was right. But, with this years 3 pt shooting and generally perimeter oriented offence, Wemby's muddied the waters considerably. Is Wemby's theoretical front court partner a PF, a C or do we need another unicorn to fit beside our current one...

[exstatic]

It's pretty crazy to think about.

But I did a quick look at the top ten picks in the last four drafts and only 6 of those 40 draftees weren't teenagers when drafted.

In other words only 6 of 40 top ten picks were 20 or older (I might have missed one or two in my quick survey but that's what I got).

So if you're using one of those top ten picks, age seems to be a big factor in who you take.

If you go into the Knecht thread, there is a video, Knecht based, that explains why. Basically, they analyzed the past like 15 drafts, and what the productivity was on average at each slot. Then, they analyzed the age and productivity of each player, and how it compared to the expected productivity of that slot. It wasn’t terrible for 20 and 21, but it dropped off a fucking cliff for 22 and 23. Unsurprisingly, 18 and 19 year olds outperform expectations at their draft slots. That’s why they get picked. It explains why guys like Duarte, Podz, and Jaquez come into the league and make a splash as rookies, and then just fall of the map. No one is even talking about Podz or Jaquez this year. If you wanted to make a killing, draft one of these guys, let him show out as a rookie, then trade him over the summer. You’ll almost never be sorry.

[SpursBills]

Setting aside the Top 4, what does everything about the idea of doubling up on size? Something like two of CMB/Fleming/Newell/Essengue?/Queen?

We could then make someone like Laravia our FA priority with our MLE (something like 3/36 for him) and have LaRavia/Barnes/Champ as our SFs and load up the PF pipeline?

I think the issue with this is that none of those 5 guys project to be +shooters with any amount of confidence. Even Fleming, who has the most promise of all of them from a shooting standpoint, is a question mark - 1 season of good 3 point shooting on medium volume primarily on catch and shoots with a career <70% FT percentage - compare him with prior drafted players with similar FT%, 3P%, volume, and mid-range touch and it's actually a mixed bag, with guys like Taurean Prince, Chuma Okeke, Justise Winslow, Jarrett Culver, and Mo Wagner being fairly similar (just referring to shooting, not playstyle). I think you really need high volume wing shooting to make any of the other four work, more than what Barnes and LaRavia are able to give you. Champ's volume and gravity are good, but it's a question of whether he's able to scale up his per 100 possessions stats to higher usage.

Essengue is many years away I think - he might be good or he might not, he puts up good numbers in Germany, but I think his defense is sort of overrated right now, and his primary appeal is his ability to get to the line and the fact that he's a mystery box. Queen is awesome offensively but I don't know about his motor - if he can undergo a Naz Reid-like transformation with his body, I actually trust his dribble jumper to get there more than most. Newell I'm higher on than I used to be, but I think I'm biased against him just because I see a lot of similarities to Marvin Bagley.

CMB is like your ultimate high risk-high reward gamble, because he's so dependent on who the 3 is next to him. His combination of self creation, ball-handling, and passing don't come along that often for guys his size, and certainly not defense-first guys - Wolf's the only guy who's better in this class, and of recent classes, Paolo, Zion, and Oso are the only ones who really stick out (probably missing a bunch of people). He probably can't space the floor except for from mid-range, but take a look at Miami/Golden State/Sacramento. Everyone thinks Draymond can shoot, but he's been a non-shooter (not just a bad shooter, look it up) for well over half his career playing next to another non-shooting big in Looney. Bam (playing next to famed sniper Jimmy Butler) and Sabonis can't shoot. And yet Sacramento had the #1 offensive rating in the league 2 years ago while Miami's gone to the finals twice in the last 5 years. Ultimately, physical passing bigs with high bball IQ are going to find a way to succeed offensively, you just need to put at least 2 high volume shooters around them (Curry-Klay; Herro-Robinson; Monk-Murray). Wemby is one. If you can find the second one (since I'm projecting Fox and Castle to be league-average eventually), you can unlock everything that CMB brings on defense. But if you can't, then you're definitely going to run into spacing issues.

[RC_Drunkford]

Is it a SF/PF or a PF/C that Spurs need? Spurs don’t really have an answer to likes of Zubac, Embiid, Jokic, even sometimes Sengun, big body Centers who like to put their weight on Wemby. Sochan is definitely not the answer, and I would hate for Spurs to draft another tweener, i.e. Keldon, Sochan. I thought Samanic was a good size but didn’t have the motor. I rather they draft a good size PF/C who can man the post but nimble enough and can shoot. That’s why I like Danny Wolf who’s slowly going up the draft. Sure I’d like another athletic SF, but I wish they draft the likes of Danny Wolf with their 2nd FRP.

you don't waste a lottery pick on a back up big. There are plenty of good bigs in the 2nd round and I hope they sign one to an NBA contract. The lottery picks have to be used on forwards. PFs like Fleming and CMB are physical with huge wingspans and can easily play smallball 5.

[RC_Drunkford]

It's pretty crazy to think about.

But I did a quick look at the top ten picks in the last four drafts and only 6 of those 40 draftees weren't teenagers when drafted.

In other words only 6 of 40 top ten picks were 20 or older (I might have missed one or two in my quick survey but that's what I got).

So if you're using one of those top ten picks, age seems to be a big factor in who you take.

both of those guys are mocked outside of the top ten. So most likely targets for the ATL pick.

The other thing is, would you rather take the younger Newell who can't shoot at all or the older Fleming who shoots a good percentage from 3? Cause in 3 seasons Sochan still hasn't developed a 3-point shot.


That's actually a key question that the Spurs need to settle on an answer for. Last year, Wemby was playing C, very definitely. DAF86 was right. But, with this years 3 pt shooting and generally perimeter oriented offence, Wemby's muddied the waters considerably. Is Wemby's theoretical front court partner a PF, a C or do we need another unicorn to fit beside our current one...

His ideal partner is a PF who plays good perimeter D, while playing like a C on offense. That's basically Sochan. CMB also fits that profile.

[RC_Drunkford]

CMB is like your ultimate high risk-high reward gamble, because he's so dependent on who the 3 is next to him. His combination of self creation, ball-handling, and passing don't come along that often for guys his size, and certainly not defense-first guys - Wolf's the only guy who's better in this class, and of recent classes, Paolo, Zion, and Oso are the only ones who really stick out (probably missing a bunch of people). He probably can't space the floor except for from mid-range, but take a look at Miami/Golden State/Sacramento. Everyone thinks Draymond can shoot, but he's been a non-shooter (not just a bad shooter, look it up) for well over half his career playing next to another non-shooting big in Looney. Bam (playing next to famed sniper Jimmy Butler) and Sabonis can't shoot. And yet Sacramento had the #1 offensive rating in the league 2 years ago while Miami's gone to the finals twice in the last 5 years. Ultimately, physical passing bigs with high bball IQ are going to find a way to succeed offensively, you just need to put at least 2 high volume shooters around them (Curry-Klay; Herro-Robinson; Monk-Murray). Wemby is one. If you can find the second one (since I'm projecting Fox and Castle to be league-average eventually), you can unlock everything that CMB brings on defense. But if you can't, then you're definitely going to run into spacing issues.

good point. You can also counter the spacing issues if you use the playmaking big as a ballhandler to initiate the offense (kinda what Cleveland does with Mobley and I guess that was the idea behind the Sochan PG experiment).

[Bruno]

That's actually a key question that the Spurs need to settle on an answer for. Last year, Wemby was playing C, very definitely. DAF86 was right. But, with this years 3 pt shooting and generally perimeter oriented offence, Wemby's muddied the waters considerably. Is Wemby's theoretical front court partner a PF, a C or do we need another unicorn to fit beside our current one...

When you have a backcourt as dynamic as Fox and Castle, I don't think it would be logical to slow down the team by playing Wemby at PF.

On the paper the ideal profile to be paired with Wembanyama is a PF with some mobility who can defend, rebound and hit an open 3. Rasheer Fleming has exactly that profile in the draft but the question is whether or not he is good enough to be a NBA starter.

[scott]

I think the issue with this is that none of those 5 guys project to be +shooters with any amount of confidence. Even Fleming, who has the most promise of all of them from a shooting standpoint, is a question mark - 1 season of good 3 point shooting on medium volume primarily on catch and shoots with a career <70% FT percentage - compare him with prior drafted players with similar FT%, 3P%, volume, and mid-range touch and it's actually a mixed bag, with guys like Taurean Prince, Chuma Okeke, Justise Winslow, Jarrett Culver, and Mo Wagner being fairly similar (just referring to shooting, not playstyle). I think you really need high volume wing shooting to make any of the other four work, more than what Barnes and LaRavia are able to give you. Champ's volume and gravity are good, but it's a question of whether he's able to scale up his per 100 possessions stats to higher usage.

Essengue is many years away I think - he might be good or he might not, he puts up good numbers in Germany, but I think his defense is sort of overrated right now, and his primary appeal is his ability to get to the line and the fact that he's a mystery box. Queen is awesome offensively but I don't know about his motor - if he can undergo a Naz Reid-like transformation with his body, I actually trust his dribble jumper to get there more than most. Newell I'm higher on than I used to be, but I think I'm biased against him just because I see a lot of similarities to Marvin Bagley.

CMB is like your ultimate high risk-high reward gamble, because he's so dependent on who the 3 is next to him. His combination of self creation, ball-handling, and passing don't come along that often for guys his size, and certainly not defense-first guys - Wolf's the only guy who's better in this class, and of recent classes, Paolo, Zion, and Oso are the only ones who really stick out (probably missing a bunch of people). He probably can't space the floor except for from mid-range, but take a look at Miami/Golden State/Sacramento. Everyone thinks Draymond can shoot, but he's been a non-shooter (not just a bad shooter, look it up) for well over half his career playing next to another non-shooting big in Looney. Bam (playing next to famed sniper Jimmy Butler) and Sabonis can't shoot. And yet Sacramento had the #1 offensive rating in the league 2 years ago while Miami's gone to the finals twice in the last 5 years. Ultimately, physical passing bigs with high bball IQ are going to find a way to succeed offensively, you just need to put at least 2 high volume shooters around them (Curry-Klay; Herro-Robinson; Monk-Murray). Wemby is one. If you can find the second one (since I'm projecting Fox and Castle to be league-average eventually), you can unlock everything that CMB brings on defense. But if you can't, then you're definitely going to run into spacing issues.

Thanks for the detailed write up. Lots of food for thought here.

It appears to me that this isn't the best draft to find what we really need (which is multiple wings who can shoot and defend), which is just how things go sometimes.

[RC_Drunkford]

McNeely is a lights out shooter. It's just that he has average athelticism and is therefore most likely an ok defender, but not a lockdown one. Would still pick him in the right range as he'd be a real rotation piece going forward. If you want shooting and elite D, Fleming is your best bet.

[Trueblood]

So, the white guys. Do you work for the Musk administration?

ha…ha…ha…

[John B]

Danny Wolf isn’t going to help stop these 20 pt runs opposing teams suddenly make out of nowhere during games. The key needs are defense and rebounding.

12th in rebounding with 1.5 blks per game. Would you rather have Tai Jones all muscles no brain? I rather Spurs draft a high bball IQ who will fit in the system like Splitter and Diaw did

[SpursBills]

good point. You can also counter the spacing issues if you use the playmaking big as a ballhandler to initiate the offense (kinda what Cleveland does with Mobley and I guess that was the idea behind the Sochan PG experiment).

Agree, I think that's what they were trying to do. Sochan's done the best he can with what he's got, but his fundamental issues are
1. He hasn't shown enough shooting to space the floor and doesn't have the handling/vision to be a DHO hub, so he can't solve the spacing issue (yet)
2. He's a little bit too wing-ish with his build; for some reason he looks smaller now than he did at Baylor, and while he's a very agile defender he isn't necessarily a physical one and can't really offer any secondary rim protection
3. He hasn't shown the ability to punish a mismatch (yet)

Sochan's a gamer and he's actually pulled off a reasonable imitation of what the ideal 4 next to Wemby is, but I think those fundamental issues may be holding him back

[SpursBills]

12th in rebounding with 1.5 blks per game. Would you rather have Tai Jones all muscles no brain? I rather Spurs draft a high bball IQ who will fit in the system like Splitter and Diaw did

lol why is the alternative "Tai Jones" of all people?

[John B]

lol why is the alternative "Tai Jones" of all people?

Than Samanic then. The point is I rather they pick a high Bball IQ who will fit in what the Spurs are doing. If you watch Danny Wolf, he makes the right plays, sees the floor very well. I hate the comp to Jokic, but he’s been compared to Jokic because of how he sees the floor. Just my opinion, I enjoy watching Danny Wolf play, very smart player.

[SpursBills]

Than Samanic then. The point is I rather they pick a high Bball IQ who will fit in what the Spurs are doing. If you watch Danny Wolf, he makes the right plays, sees the floor very well. I hate the comp to Jokic, but he’s been compared to Jokic because of how he sees the floor. Just my opinion, I enjoy watching Danny Wolf play, very smart player.

The guy said that the Spurs need defense and rebounding more than passing from a big. Maybe he's right, maybe he's not. I'm not completely against Wolf because I think his defense is actually better than advertised, but the fact that your counterexamples to Wolf are two of the worst basketball players to ever play isn't exactly arguing in good faith and makes your post lose a ton of credibility. It's like you're saying that high basketball IQ and defense/rebounding are mutually exclusive when they're clearly not.

[baseline bum]

Yeah, this is why I'm not too worried about jumping into the Top 4.

Just keep surrounding Fox/Castle/Wemby with solid, Barnes-like players. I'm comfortable with our star power at this point. The only thing that would change that would be some unexpected horrible news that Wemby is retiring... in which case I will erect the Voodoo Shrine in my home and begin ritual sacrifices to land Flagg.

As huge of a Castle fan as I am, he could still just end up a valuable role player as opposed to a foundational piece. So yeah I wanna be in the top 4 so get De'Aaron his wrist surgery and tank the season.

[BackHome]

I agree people act like we are one player away from being legit Playoff team and I have to disagree- Just looking at our team we probably need to replace CP3 and Barnes is on his last year to old vets who brought stability to our team. The main issue is Vassell regression that really puts us behind the 8 ball if he continues to suck we are going to need to find a replacement.

Also, need to find a good backup Center for Wemby or someone who can play with him and play down in the paint on offense like Wolf. I still don’t think the coaching knows how to play him on the offensive side is he a center or a shooting guard?

So looking at next season we probably looking at a lot of turnover CP3, Branham, Blake, snd possible trades with Keldon and Vassell

[KobesAchilles]

I’d rather have Wolf since he already possesses basketball IQ. Bc gawd knows that this shit franchise can’t develop IQ for any of its players if they don’t already have it coming into the league. Give me basketball IQ please. I’m tired of watching complete morons try to play basketball.

[objective]

I rather Spurs draft a high bball IQ who will fit in the system like Splitter and Diaw did

100% agree

This team needs more high IQ players. Too many dopes who ruin things in close games.

Nate Duncan had a recent podcast with the guy from Thinking Basketball and they covered just how complex the offenses are now combined with how fast they are, and players need to be so quick in mentally processing the game, and same for defense.

[rascal]

I’d rather have Wolf since he already possesses basketball IQ. Bc gawd knows that this shit franchise can’t develop IQ for any of its players if they don’t already have it coming into the league. Give me basketball IQ please. I’m tired of watching complete morons try to play basketball.

Why not shoot for athleticism + IQ.

I'm tired of seeing other teams like what we have just seen with Detroit being more athletic and quicker down the court and to loose balls than the spurs. Duren shot 10-14 with 15 rebounds, he destroyed the Spurs with his athleticism down low.

[Tailboar]

I’d rather have Wolf since he already possesses basketball IQ. Bc gawd knows that this shit franchise can’t develop IQ for any of its players if they don’t already have it coming into the league. Give me basketball IQ please. I’m tired of watching complete morons try to play basketball.

Concur. For some reason I don't have confidence in our coaches teaching BBIQ or shooting.

[TrainOfThought5]

Concur. For some reason I don't have confidence in our coaches teaching BBIQ or shooting.

then what the hell can they teach?! And why do we keep drafting players that can’t shoot?!

[objective]

As much as I like Wolf, some of his defense is pretty bad. Watching that whole summation video against MSU, smaller guys turned a corner on him easily and he wasn't recovering very well at all. I know in some highlight videos he has a lot of recovery blocks from behind on plays like that but I wonder how many he just never is even close to getting

[rascal]

As much as I like Wolf, some of his defense is pretty bad. Watching that whole summation video against MSU, smaller guys turned a corner on him easily and he wasn't recovering very well at all. I know in some highlight videos he has a lot of recovery blocks from behind on plays like that but I wonder how many he just never is even close to getting

NBA players are also much quicker than what you're seeing from college highlights.

[Uriel]

First time watching Jakučionis this year, and he reminds me quite a bit of Topic.

[rascal]

First time watching Jakučionis this year, and he reminds me quite a bit of Topic.

He looks better than Topic.

But who is better, Jakučionis or Tre Johnson? They are going around the same area in the draft.
I'll take Johnson over Jakučionis.

[John B]

NBA players are also much quicker than what you're seeing from college highlights.

That’s called players development.

[Dejounte]

Tre Johnson’s shot making is ugly as hell. Barely gets any separation, real basic handling. Reminds me of Vassell in the worst way possible.

[Dejounte]

Dylan Harper looks like a big 6’6”. In the same manner that Jalen Williams is. I would have no issues playing him at SF with both Fox and Castle in the backcourt.

[rascal]

Tre Johnson’s shot making is ugly as hell. Barely gets any separation, real basic handling. Reminds me of Vassell in the worst way possible.

He looks good to me.

Of course Harper is a top two pick.

[Silverheart80]

Tre Johnson’s shot making is ugly as hell. Barely gets any separation, real basic handling. Reminds me of Vassell in the worst way possible.

I've been watching Tre. I keep wondering the same -- "How does this crazy shot selection translate to the league? Where are his plays that make his teammates better?"

[Silverheart80]

Tre Johnson’s shot making is ugly as hell. Barely gets any separation, real basic handling. Reminds me of Vassell in the worst way possible.

And I should add that when I watch Ace Bailey, I wonder the same thing. I like his length, and would definitely choose him over Tre, but his lack of ability to create advantage off-the-dribble, having to rely on difficult fadeaways and turnarounds, is very Devin Vassell. I'm not excited about Ace's game.

[Silverheart80]

As of last night, we don't know if Pop's ever coming back. Many are already eulogizing his career. There's a lot of media and team spin trying to promote that everything's gonna be OK with Victor, long-term. But no one knows what's gonna happen to Victor from here. I was dreaming about this guy as a Spur three years before we drafted him. June 22, 2023 was one of the greatest days in Spurs history. I've fully believed he was gonna be the new face of the NBA. But I think this health situation now changes everything.

I get that the Spurs can't afford fan support to collapse when they're about to push a new arena upon the city, not to mention prevent next year's season ticket market from going bust. So it makes sense they're gonna spin Victor's health situation as positively as possible. When Pop's stroke happened, they did that too. Do I think Victor will play again as a Spur? No doubt. 100% yes.

But I don't think we can *depend* on him playing a 65-game season again. That's not the same thing as me saying "he CAN'T play a 65-game season again". But I think his minutes are gonna be more managed than ever before, and I think it's gonna take a long time for his conditioning to return. No guarantee he'll ever be able to have the stamina to play a full regular season, plus playoffs, as the centerpiece of the offense and defense. Not to mention -- we've had 1-1/2 years of Victor so far, and we *still* hear, "Well, it's gonna take his teammates time to get used to playing with him, and how to get him the ball." Be ready for at least one more full year of that frustration, when he does come back.

So all this being said -- I hope Victor plays his entire career as a Spur. I do think we can win a championship with him on the roster. But if we lose Pop as coach, I've always said that's gonna greatly harm our chances to hold on to Victor because I think that relationship is part of what makes Victor so wedded to the Spurs.

This week was franchise-changing. And I don't blame the organization for trying to put a happy spin on it. But this is a very dangerous time. And I think the Spurs have to draft as if Victor is not a Spur. And again, that's not me saying "trade Victor" or "he's never playing again", but it's the only prudent choice, given the circumstances and unknowns. Draft as if you think only Castle and Fox will be here for the next three or four years, but beyond that -- every other position is up for grabs. Build a team that can make a deep playoff run WITHOUT Victor, and if he ever does reach his full potential, and he does choose to stay a Spur -- then look out. But I think it would be very foolish for the Spurs to think of this draft as anything other than "best player available", and draft top to bottom like it's one of their most critical drafts of the next 5-10 years.