2025 NBA Draft

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/1rTK9LoF1MM?feature=shared

who wouldn’t be amazed if they saw a Spur big do the play in the second clip of this video? This guy is filthy

[Dejounte]

Most of Danny Wolf’s “flashy” passes come from top of the key… the most unimpressive type of pass there is because there is no ball handling to go with it AND it’s not a play that can be run consistently in the playoffs. I think people are falling for something that’s not there tbh

[Dejounte]

Meanwhle, Fleming continues his efficient three point shooting and no signs of falling off. Last year the supposed sharpshooter Zaccharie Risacher had months of poor shooting but was given the benefit of the doubt all year long before the draft. He still only shoots at 32% right now in the NBA. Don’t know how long Fleming has to keep shooting lights out for people to say he’s for real mo7888

[Dejounte]

I still don’t know what people see in Malauch… i don’t think we can afford to draft an inept offensive player. It’s one thing to focus on defense and rebounding, but I don’t want to pair that skill with a zero on offense. Plus, we’ve seen what an all time defensive anchor can do for us on defense… that is, absolutely nothing if the wings and forwards are shit on defense.

[mo7888]

Meanwhle, Fleming continues his efficient three point shooting and no signs of falling off. Last year the supposed sharpshooter Zaccharie Risacher had months of poor shooting but was given the benefit of the doubt all year long before the draft. He still only shoots at 32% right now in the NBA. Don’t know how long Fleming has to keep shooting lights out for people to say he’s for real mo7888

It's hard to say. Perception is a tough thing to change. Some people view it though current production and some through analytics, i.e. players this age will become this...or players who've made a jump in percentage will return to the mean etc, etc. So I can't really say when perceptions will change, I can only really evaluate what I see, what I think will or won't develop, and how a guy fits in the league or on a specific team. You know my opinion, I've got him top 10. I'm very comfortable with where I've got him. I think he's a high level complimentary player that will have a productive career. His ceiling isn't as high as some above him , but his floor is much higher. I'm perfectly comfortable with drafting him in our perceived draft range.

[Dejounte]

I agree people act like we are one player away from being legit Playoff team and I have to disagree- Just looking at our team we probably need to replace CP3 and Barnes is on his last year to old vets who brought stability to our team. The main issue is Vassell regression that really puts us behind the 8 ball if he continues to suck we are going to need to find a replacement.

Also, need to find a good backup Center for Wemby or someone who can play with him and play down in the paint on offense like Wolf. I still don’t think the coaching knows how to play him on the offensive side is he a center or a shooting guard?

So looking at next season we probably looking at a lot of turnover CP3, Branham, Blake, snd possible trades with Keldon and Vassell
Just say what you really want to say and say that you want the team to tank next year too. Yeah let’s waste away all of Wemby’s years

[RC_Drunkford]

https://youtu.be/1rTK9LoF1MM?feature=shared

who wouldn’t be amazed if they saw a Spur big do the play in the second clip of this video? This guy is filthy

Queen is one of the players I still have to scout. Do you think he can play PF next to Wemby? And how is his defense?

[KobesAchilles]

Why not shoot for athleticism + IQ.

I'm tired of seeing other teams like what we have just seen with Detroit being more athletic and quicker down the court and to loose balls than the spurs. Duren shot 10-14 with 15 rebounds, he destroyed the Spurs with his athleticism down low.
Besides Flagg, who out there to draft had both athleticism+IQ?

[rascal]

Besides Flagg, who out there to draft had both athleticism+IQ?

Why does Flagg have IQ and no one else does???

People like to tag high IQ on white players and low IQ on high energy high athletic black players. IQ players lacking NBA level athleticism are over rated.

[rascal]

Besides Flagg, who out there to draft had both athleticism+IQ?

Everybody in the top of the draft. That's why these guys are high draft picks because they get results on the court and you're not getting top results without having an understanding of the game,(high IQ).

High IQ is thrown out there for guys with limited NBA abilities/athleticism as compared to other NBA players.

Height, lenght/wingspan, quickness, jumping ability, shooting form and consistency, ball handling dribbling skills. The top players will check off enough of these physical ability boxes and also have high IQ.

Coaches and gaining experience increase the understanding of the game. But it's not rocket science. It's not that difficult. Boxing out, tapping rebounds to a teammate, reading where the ball will come off on a shots trajectory and getting into position for a rebound off a missed shot, seeing the floor to make a good pass.


Basketball IQ involves reading the game, anticipating plays, and making the right choices under pressure. It's about knowing when to pass, shoot, or dribble.
Players with high basketball IQ often seem to be in the right place at the right time.

[Dejounte]

Queen is one of the players I still have to scout. Do you think he can play PF next to Wemby? And how is his defense?

Probably not full time PF. My dream would be to draft both Fleming and Queen so we can finally have true bigs. We’ll have beef down low and guys with a nose for the ball. The team has went all-versatile the last several years and I think it’s time to fill the roster with guys who could bully their matchup with size and strength.

Queen’s defense is nothing to write home about but the footwork on offense is special and something you don’t see everyday. When we drafted Castle, he was a step in the “guy who can score without it being predictable” direction. We need more creative scorers and Queen is it, at least from a front court perspective.

[John B]

Most of Danny Wolf’s “flashy” passes come from top of the key… the most unimpressive type of pass there is because there is no ball handling to go with it AND it’s not a play that can be run consistently in the playoffs. I think people are falling for something that’s not there tbh

Obviously you have not watched a lot of Michigan’s game this year. Wolf is a floor general at 7 footer who passes from the key, on post, in traffic, hockey passes. Then you claim he’s not a good defender. He averages 1.5 blocks almost 1 steal game, 12th in rebounding. He already knows how to play with another big man (7’1 Goldin). He’s practically sharing his big man stats. Watch him play, not just the highlights because you’ll see his beautiful game out there, a very high bball iq. I like Fleming 6’9” athletic who can shoot. But I’m hoping they use the 2nd FRP on Wolf. Not another bonehead, all braun no brain.


https://youtu.be/d8TmyNCH4iI?si=1idpwzsix7fqpwv9

[scott]

Listening to Vecenie a little more in depth last night with particular focus on three players who get talked a lot about.

Derik Queen: seems like the report on him from Sam is that he’s great offensively but really bad on defense. I’m still trying to rack my brain around how that fits on our squad.

Tre Johnson: Sam is admittedly not high on Tre. His take seems to be that he’s an effective ISO scorer but doesn’t do anything else, and it’s not clear if he’ll be able to be a successful ISO scorer in the NBA. So basically… what we currently have in Devin Vassell. Not super interested.

Danny Wolf: Sam doesn’t believe in Wolf’s shot, which is kind of the make or break for his ceiling as a pro. He does think Wolf will be a better NBA player than Luka Garza though.

[LeBowen]

As someone who doesn't really watch college ball, the more I read about these prospects, the more I dislike everyone outside of top5.
If we can't consolidate our picks to get into top5, I'd rather get someone who's ready to contribute right away, we have enough fundamentally flawed players already.

[John B]

https://youtu.be/1rTK9LoF1MM?feature=shared

who wouldn’t be amazed if they saw a Spur big do the play in the second clip of this video? This guy is filthy

2 for 22 from three. Another big man who can’t shoot, really?

[Dejounte]

2 for 22 from three. Another big man who can’t shoot, really?

Does Isaiah Hartenstein shoot 3’s? Y’all are obsessed with wanting 3 pt shooting from all five positions when it’s A-OK to have one non shooter on the floor.

You go goo goo gaga over guys who resemble 1% of old Spurs players. First it was Johnny Davis being Manu, then it was thinking Castle would be Nephew at the small forward position (even bragging about it mid-season when he did it for a couple games when players were out), and now Wolf being a Diaw prototype. I think you’re just John B-ing it up again with Wolf.

[Mal]

Just win lottery and draft Flagg, how difficult it could be

[scott]

As someone who doesn't really watch college ball, the more I read about these prospects, the more I dislike everyone outside of top5.
If we can't consolidate our picks to get into top5, I'd rather get someone who's ready to contribute right away, we have enough fundamentally flawed players already.

Yeah, that’s where I’m at as well, with a big gulf in excitement from 1 to 2, then from 2 to 3-5.

Sam (and I apologize if I come off as a Vecenie fan boy, he’s just the podcast I listen to the most as he comes across as the most knowledgeable and objective NBA guy out there) has been saying for awhile that outside of the top 4 or 5, this is a really weak draft, and there are still plenty of question marks about the guys from 3 to 5.

Everyone keeps saying this is a “strong class” but it’s really not.

[John B]

Does Isaiah Hartenstein shoot 3’s? Y’all are obsessed with wanting 3 pt shooting from all five positions when it’s A-OK to have one non shooter on the floor.

You go goo goo gaga over guys who resemble 1% of old Spurs players. First it was Johnny Davis being Manu, then it was thinking Castle would be Nephew at the small forward position (even bragging about it mid-season when he did it for a couple games when players were out), and now Wolf being a Diaw prototype. I think you’re just John B-ing it up again with Wolf.

Yup touché on Johnny Davis :toast Hey I was high on Jalen Johnson, but people thought he’s not Spurs-type character.

But please no more undersized C (6’10) and cannot shoot, and questionable defense.

[LeBowen]

Everyone keeps saying this is a “strong class” but it’s really not.

For me it's about archetypes of players available.
Flagg and Bailey are the only two players I'd take with no hesitation, I'd listen to offers for everyone else.
Harper and Edgecombe look good, but we have Fox/Castle. I want some actual wings. Not even those 6'7 wings, but a 6'9-6'11 PF is a must.

Everyone else is either too small or either can't shoot or can't defend.

[scott]

For me it's about archetypes of players available.
Flagg and Bailey are the only two players I'd take with no hesitation, I'd listen to offers for everyone else.
Harper and Edgecombe look good, but we have Fox/Castle. I want some actual wings. Not even those 6'7 wings, but a 6'9-6'11 PF is a must.

Everyone else is either too small or either can't shoot or can't defend.

I’d be happy with Bailey because he fits the archetype we need, but I’d be fully prepared for him to be disappointing as a Top 5 pick. There are enough question marks that have been raised to give me concern. But it’s not like there are better prospects behind him to take.

Harper I’d still take and be happy to try to make work. He has good enough size to pair with Fox and Castle in the SL, but we’d absolutely need that 6’10” PF.

[Seventyniner]

So all this being said -- I hope Victor plays his entire career as a Spur. I do think we can win a championship with him on the roster. But if we lose Pop as coach, I've always said that's gonna greatly harm our chances to hold on to Victor because I think that relationship is part of what makes Victor so wedded to the Spurs.

Pop not being the full-time head coach doesn't mean he won't ever be around the team and players. He didn't die.

Sure, he and Victor won't have the same relationship as if Pop had continued to coach, but that was never going to last forever anyway.

[KobesAchilles]

Everybody in the top of the draft. That's why these guys are high draft picks because they get results on the court and you're not getting top results without having an understanding of the game,(high IQ).

High IQ is thrown out there for guys with limited NBA abilities/athleticism as compared to other NBA players.

Height, lenght/wingspan, quickness, jumping ability, shooting form and consistency, ball handling dribbling skills. The top players will check off enough of these physical ability boxes and also have high IQ.

Coaches and gaining experience increase the understanding of the game. But it's not rocket science. It's not that difficult. Boxing out, tapping rebounds to a teammate, reading where the ball will come off on a shots trajectory and getting into position for a rebound off a missed shot, seeing the floor to make a good pass.


Basketball IQ involves reading the game, anticipating plays, and making the right choices under pressure. It's about knowing when to pass, shoot, or dribble.
Players with high basketball IQ often seem to be in the right place at the right time.
Just the most incorrect pointless rant I’ve seen in a long time. There are so many busts out there at the top of the draft that saying well everybody at the top of the draft has high basketball IQ. I mean more than half the #1 picks are busts. 40% of lottery picks don’t even make it past their 5th year in the league.

Plus just watching Flagg play and it’s obvious to see he has both athleticism and high IQ. What dipshit question is that? It isn’t just bc he’s white. It’s bc he’s clearly the best of the lot. Take your race baiting elsewhere. I mean Castle has more bb IQ than Sarr for example and would you believe the dumbass was the #2 pick in the draft. Not all of these college player have high basketball IQ. Many of them were brought up to play individual basketball and have no concept of working with a team aspect. Many can’t run or thrive in nba defenses or offenses bc they are just talented and athletic and not smart. Vassell is talented. He’s also a moron. Now his talent might make him have a good career of a bench player going forward but due to his no IQ that’s as far as he will go.

Basketball is incredibly complex. The greats don’t just focus on themselves. They read how/what 9 other people are going to react and do at any moment on the court. That shit isn’t easy. If it was easy then we would still be running the beautiful game.

[LeBowen]

They read how/what 9 other people are going to react and do at any moment on the court.

Not only that, but the likes of Vassell just think about 5 players on the other team.
I'd argue that everyone should think about how their actions affect their 4 teammates and then think about the opponents.
It's a team game.

[rascal]

Just the most incorrect pointless rant I’ve seen in a long time. There are so many busts out there at the top of the draft that saying well everybody at the top of the draft has high basketball IQ. I mean more than half the #1 picks are busts. 40% of lottery picks don’t even make it past their 5th year in the league.

Plus just watching Flagg play and it’s obvious to see he has both athleticism and high IQ. What dipshit question is that? It isn’t just bc he’s white. It’s bc he’s clearly the best of the lot. Take your race baiting elsewhere. I mean Castle has more bb IQ than Sarr for example and would you believe the dumbass was the #2 pick in the draft. Not all of these college player have high basketball IQ. Many of them were brought up to play individual basketball and have no concept of working with a team aspect. Many can’t run or thrive in nba defenses or offenses bc they are just talented and athletic and not smart. Vassell is talented. He’s also a moron. Now his talent might make him have a good career of a bench player going forward but due to his no IQ that’s as far as he will go.

Basketball is incredibly complex. The greats don’t just focus on themselves. They read how/what 9 other people are going to react and do at any moment on the court. That shit isn’t easy. If it was easy then we would still be running the beautiful game.

There are busts because front offices misread on players abilities, like Houston did with the third pick thinking Sheppard was going to be able to shoot as well in the nBA as he did in college.

[LeBowen]

There are busts because front offices misread on players abilities, like Houston did with the third pick thinking Sheppard was going to be able to shoot as well in the nBA as he did in college.

It's not about if he can shoot, it's about if he's capable of creating enough separation to get the shots up.
Which he's not because he's undersized and unathletic.

[rascal]

It's not about if he can shoot, it's about if he's capable of creating enough separation to get the shots up.
Which he's not because he's undersized and unathletic.

Yes, that is it. He can't do the things that are necessary for him to shoot in the nBA like he did in college. Still Houston misread his overall abilities.

[RC_Drunkford]

Yeah, that’s where I’m at as well, with a big gulf in excitement from 1 to 2, then from 2 to 3-5.

Sam (and I apologize if I come off as a Vecenie fan boy, he’s just the podcast I listen to the most as he comes across as the most knowledgeable and objective NBA guy out there) has been saying for awhile that outside of the top 4 or 5, this is a really weak draft, and there are still plenty of question marks about the guys from 3 to 5.

Everyone keeps saying this is a “strong class” but it’s really not.

that's not really what I get from his takes. It's more like there's not much of a dropoff from 7 to 40. There are nice role players to have even in the 2nd round, it's just hard to get the draft order right. A player like CMB has been mocked end of the first round, but he's actually more skilled than Asa Newell who's younger and mocked in the top 10.

[RC_Drunkford]

For me it's about archetypes of players available.
Flagg and Bailey are the only two players I'd take with no hesitation, I'd listen to offers for everyone else.
Harper and Edgecombe look good, but we have Fox/Castle. I want some actual wings. Not even those 6'7 wings, but a 6'9-6'11 PF is a must.

Everyone else is either too small or either can't shoot or can't defend.

how about a strong 6'9'' forward with a 7'2'' wingspan and an NBA body who shoots 44% from 3?

[scott]

that's not really what I get from his takes. It's more like there's not much of a dropoff from 7 to 40. There are nice role players to have even in the 2nd round, it's just hard to get the draft order right. A player like CMB has been mocked end of the first round, but he's actually more skilled than Asa Newell who's younger and mocked in the top 10.

I mean, I’ve directly heard him say he’s having a rough time finding 14 guys worthy of a lottery pick. He and Bryce seem to like the Top 5, then from 6-15 it’s pretty rough, then there are some guys who are interesting prospects in the back half of the first. They don’t think there is much of a drop off from 7 to 40, but not because there are 30 guys worth a lottery pick, but because they guys in the back half of the lottery AREN’T graded as high as most lotteries.

[mystargtr34]

In terms of the top 5 prospects.

Cooper Flagg is a given if Spurs somehow get the number 1 pick.

If the Spurs get the 2nd pick, Harper is easily the second best prospect but the fit isn’t ideal. Fox-Harper-Castle starting is slightly undersized and lacks shooting. Spurs probably look to trade down to 3 and get a future first round pick if the number 3 team needs a lead creator. Such as Washington, Pelicans (Dejounte is not the long term answer), Raptors, Utah. It’s only really the Hornets in the bottom 5 teams who don’t need Harper because of LaMelo.

If the Spurs get number 3 I think Edgecombe is a slightly better prospect than Bailey but again the fit isn’t ideal same issues as Harper. I would gladly take Ace Bailey. But agree he doesn’t have superstar upside. I think he can be a slightly more athletic Brandon Ingram. You then really need the second wing to be able to defend at a high level because Bailey won’t be that guy.

No way the spurs draft Kasparas imo. Not enough upside to overcome the sub optimal fit next to Fox and Castle.

Having said all the above, it’s still not a given Castle is the long term 2 he still needs to show progression so the Spurs could still take Harper or Edgecombe. But I don’t see them taking a 1 or 2-guard outside these top 4 prospects such as Kasparas, Tre, Kon etc.

[Uriel]

I still don’t know what people see in Malauch… i don’t think we can afford to draft an inept offensive player. It’s one thing to focus on defense and rebounding, but I don’t want to pair that skill with a zero on offense. Plus, we’ve seen what an all time defensive anchor can do for us on defense… that is, absolutely nothing if the wings and forwards are shit on defense.
He’s only inept on offense if your definition of ineptitude is “not being able to create his own shot.” But if you expand your definition of offense to include ability to catch lobs, clean up misses, finish at the rim off the pick and roll, then this guy is absolutely elite on offense. He could legitimately shoot 60% from the field off these alone.

[keithington1]

Pick one and why:

A)
Fox CP3 Wesley
Vassell Champ Branham
Castle Barnes Johnson
Sochan Queen Minix
Wemby Newell Biyombo
B)
Fox CP3 Wesley
Mcneeley Vassell Branham
Castle Champ Mamu
Sochan Barnes Johnson
Wemby Sorber Bassey
C)
Fox Cp3 Wesley
Castle Vassell Branham
Knueppel Barnes Champ
Wemby Sochan Johnson
Maluach Biyombo Bassey
D)
Fox CP3 Wesley
Castle Vassell Branham
Fleming Champ Johnson
Sochan Murray Boyles Minix
Wemby Biyombo Bassey

[BackHome]

Just say what you really want to say and say that you want the team to tank next year too. Yeah let’s waste away all of Wemby’s years

Umm, you do know Wemby is out the whole season and to top it off today we lost to the worst team in the NBA record wise.

[SpursBills]

Pick one and why:

A)
Fox CP3 Wesley
Vassell Champ Branham
Castle Barnes Johnson
Sochan Queen Minix
Wemby Newell Biyombo
B)
Fox CP3 Wesley
Mcneeley Vassell Branham
Castle Champ Mamu
Sochan Barnes Johnson
Wemby Sorber Bassey
C)
Fox Cp3 Wesley
Castle Champ Branham
Knueppel Barnes Johnson
Wemby Sochan Mamu
Maluach Biyombo Bassey
D)
Fox CP3 Wesley
Castle Vassell Branham
Fleming Champ Johnson
Sochan Murray Boyles Minix
Wemby Biyombo Bassey

B

I don't want any lineup where I see Vassell listed as a starter, so A is out. Leaves you way too thin on the boards and at a size disadvantage. Queen and Asa both have significant shooting concerns.

C is a huge gamble - Maluach is 18 and his entire appeal is as a stretch center, but that could take years. If you draft Maluach you absolutely don't start him on day 1, you start him at backup center and see if he can develop his 3 5 years from now. In that case you're playing Maluach-Mamu as your backups, which is probably a disaster defensively.

D looks interesting, but I don't believe in Fleming's ability to become enough of a high volume 3 point shooter to where spacing would work. Love CMB but he only gets unlocked next to a high volume 3 point shooter, and neither Fleming or Champ or Vassell are that guy.

B is probably my preferred option. McNeeley potentially gives you the high volume 3 point shooting that you need next to Sochan. Sorber is very underrated defensively and given his FT percentage, age, and midrange touch I have hope that he can develop corner 3 eventually. He's got that combination of OREB%, STL/BLK%, and AST% that I think gives you a good intersection of functional athleticism and feel. Starting lineup is a little small but it's at least got 2 defenders and 2 shooters with the option to flex in size and shooting as needed.

[scott]

Pick one and why:

A)
Fox CP3 Wesley
Vassell Champ Branham
Castle Barnes Johnson
Sochan Queen Minix
Wemby Newell Biyombo
B)
Fox CP3 Wesley
Mcneeley Vassell Branham
Castle Champ Mamu
Sochan Barnes Johnson
Wemby Sorber Bassey
C)
Fox Cp3 Wesley
Castle Champ Branham
Knueppel Barnes Johnson
Wemby Sochan Mamu
Maluach Biyombo Bassey
D)
Fox CP3 Wesley
Castle Vassell Branham
Fleming Champ Johnson
Sochan Murray Boyles Minix
Wemby Biyombo Bassey

LOL why are these the choices? What Front Office comes up with these monstrosity of roster constructions? Besides PATFO, of course.

[keithington1]

LOL why are these the choices? What Front Office comes up with these monstrosity of roster constructions? Besides PATFO, of course.Just trying to get get an idea of what the roster would look like barring a trade.

[Knoxxx]

The draft rankings seems very fluid in the 8-15 range which bodes well for us having picks 10-11, barring a top 4 lotto break. Dropping below POR also provides a nice percentage increase to our lotto odds. Fox needs to get that finger fixed ASAP!

[ixiXSolidXixi]

Just trying to get get an idea of what the roster would look like barring a trade.

Cp3 is a free agent.

[baseline bum]

Spurs really need to just tell De'Aaron to get his surgery so he can be ready to hit the ground running next year. Not only improve their pick but also give him an out to save face instead of just not giving a shit and putting up crap numbers because the reason he came here is shelved for the season.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkaAaMWLU4M

[montgod]

In terms of the top 5 prospects.

Cooper Flagg is a given if Spurs somehow get the number 1 pick.

If the Spurs get the 2nd pick, Harper is easily the second best prospect but the fit isn’t ideal. Fox-Harper-Castle starting is slightly undersized and lacks shooting. Spurs probably look to trade down to 3 and get a future first round pick if the number 3 team needs a lead creator. Such as Washington, Pelicans (Dejounte is not the long term answer), Raptors, Utah. It’s only really the Hornets in the bottom 5 teams who don’t need Harper because of LaMelo.

If the Spurs get number 3 I think Edgecombe is a slightly better prospect than Bailey but again the fit isn’t ideal same issues as Harper. I would gladly take Ace Bailey. But agree he doesn’t have superstar upside. I think he can be a slightly more athletic Brandon Ingram. You then really need the second wing to be able to defend at a high level because Bailey won’t be that guy.

No way the spurs draft Kasparas imo. Not enough upside to overcome the sub optimal fit next to Fox and Castle.

Having said all the above, it’s still not a given Castle is the long term 2 he still needs to show progression so the Spurs could still take Harper or Edgecombe. But I don’t see them taking a 1 or 2-guard outside these top 4 prospects such as Kasparas, Tre, Kon etc.

Good write-up. I will say even though he isn't the ideal fit/pick, VJ's heart/motor and aggressiveness reminds me of DWade. I think he could become a game changer.

Definitely like Harper and his game/height. Would be an interesting fit though as you said but I wouldn't be mad if Spurs drafted him and figured it out.

I'm skeptical of Bailey and his effort but the talent is there. He just needs to gain some lean muscle and learn how to take better shots. Definitely not a defender so not really a Spurs type of pick that high imo.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjQKUwSppfs

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Spurs better get a top 4 pick because Brian DEI wrong can’t draft unless it’s a sure fire pick. I have no faith in this front office.

[heyheymymy]

Flagg
Harper
Edgecombe

would obviously all be heists to get into the top 4 for. I'm also really intrigued with:

McNeeley
Flemming

Lesser extent but still interesting:

CMB
Wolf
Sorber
Will Riley
Kalkbrenner
Joan Beringer

[tonight...you]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjQKUwSppfs
He doesn't do anything for me.

[CorrectCrusader]

Flagg
Harper
Edgecombe

would obviously all be heists to get into the top 4 for. I'm also really intrigued with:

McNeeley
Flemming

Lesser extent but still interesting:

CMB
Wolf
Sorber
Will Riley
Kalkbrenner
Joan Beringer

You don't like Bailey?

[rankingtear]

They are going to run a more drive and kick offense fueled by Fox and hopefully Castle. Spot up shooting and downhill ability is the most desired skillset for that offense. It is no coincidence that KJ who thrives in that going back to Kentucky is having a bit of resurgence.

[exstatic]

You don't like Bailey?

There are a few of us. He’s kind of a black hole, with a fractional asst/TO ratio. He doesn’t defend well. There was a breakdown of big non-passing wings that someone did, and almost all of them bust out. The BEST case was Harrison Barnes, and I like HB, but I wouldn’t use a top 4 pick on him. GS picked him 7th,and was ready to move on by not matching his offer sheet from Dallas.

[spurraider21]

There are a few of us. He’s kind of a black hole, with a fractional asst/TO ratio. He doesn’t defend well. There was a breakdown of big non-passing wings that someone did, and almost all of them bust out. The BEST case was Harrison Barnes, and I like HB, but I wouldn’t use a top 4 pick on him. GS picked him 7th,and was ready to move on by not matching his offer sheet from Dallas.
wonder if that had anything to do with kevin durant having been acquired 5 days earler

[John B]

Flagg
Harper
Edgecombe

would obviously all be heists to get into the top 4 for. I'm also really intrigued with:

McNeeley
Flemming

Lesser extent but still interesting:

CMB
Wolf
Sorber
Will Riley
Kalkbrenner
Joan Beringer

Flagg, Harper and Edgecombe are given. Hell if we get any combinations of those players.

What I really don’t like, tweener PF/C who cannot defend the paint, worst who cannot shoot. Please, please, please for the love of God, no more Keldon, Sochan at PF.. haven’t Spurs learned their lesson?? Wemby WILL NEVER be heavy enough to bang with the likes of Zubac. He needs a full-size PF/C to help man the paint and will not clog the lane.

[scott]

While I have no reason to doubt the Spurs and medical professionals (and the experience of BI and Ausar) and I believe Wemby will be back at full strength next year... I still think it would behoove us to prepare for the chance (no matter how slim) that Wemby doesn't come back or can't be relied upon to play 70 games + playoffs going forward and needs to be load managed.

This doesn't mean trading him away or anything stupid like that... but more in terms that we should probably invest in a high quality big who can start at the 5 or just be a high end backup. I don't know if Maluach is that guy or not, or if that guy is even in this draft.

I think this gets a lot easier to do if we somehow luck into Flagg. Because at point, I am filling the rest of the wing positions with 3&D role players anyway and should be able to devise a rotation that has two of Fox/Castle/Flagg/Wemby on the court at all times. That would be devastating for the league. I no longer need to find a wing with high end scoring upside (like a McNeeley) to make up for the deficiencies of the other wing position. So I want a guy who can step in if Wemby needs to miss games and for our team to still be a major threat with a core of Fox/Castle/Flagg. I don't need a world beater, but I need that guy to be a Duren/Claxton/Zubac/Jak level C who isn't going to be a glaring hole.

This becomes a bigger challenge if we are picking 10 and 11... but it's still on my mind.

[ginobilized]

While I have no reason to doubt the Spurs and medical professionals (and the experience of BI and Ausar) and I believe Wemby will be back at full strength next year... I still think it would behoove us to prepare for the chance (no matter how slim) that Wemby doesn't come back or can't be relied upon to play 70 games + playoffs going forward and needs to be load managed.

This doesn't mean trading him away or anything stupid like that... but more in terms that we should probably invest in a high quality big who can start at the 5 or just be a high end backup. I don't know if Maluach is that guy or not, or if that guy is even in this draft.

I think this gets a lot easier to do if we somehow luck into Flagg. Because at point, I am filling the rest of the wing positions with 3&D role players anyway and should be able to devise a rotation that has two of Fox/Castle/Flagg/Wemby on the court at all times. That would be devastating for the league. I no longer need to find a wing with high end scoring upside (like a McNeeley) to make up for the deficiencies of the other wing position. So I want a guy who can step in if Wemby needs to miss games and for our team to still be a major threat with a core of Fox/Castle/Flagg. I don't need a world beater, but I need that guy to be a Duren/Claxton/Zubac/Jak level C who isn't going to be a glaring hole.

This becomes a bigger challenge if we are picking 10 and 11... but it's still on my mind.

Once again, in full agreement. Having a strong PF who could cover that position in small ball situations along with a serviceable C is the ideal next step scenario in building this roster.
We've been playing Vassell at SF and Keldon at PF. Let that sink in. No where to go but up. Can we all just agree to get Naz Reid and Cooper Flagg as their replacements and add an imposing C and call it a day?

[CorrectCrusader]

He doesn't do anything for me.

He's a young athletic raw big man with good traits in a league that lacks quality bigs.

[TD 21]

I still don’t know what people see in Malauch… i don’t think we can afford to draft an inept offensive player. It’s one thing to focus on defense and rebounding, but I don’t want to pair that skill with a zero on offense. Plus, we’ve seen what an all time defensive anchor can do for us on defense… that is, absolutely nothing if the wings and forwards are shit on defense.

Yeah, make "us" 5.4 points per 100 possessions better (115.4 to 110.0), which is the difference between the 6th and 24th best defense.


He's a young athletic raw big man with good traits in a league that lacks quality bigs.

If you define bigs as center or combo/hybrid, then relatively speaking (although two-big lineups are making a comeback, there's still less of them than their used to be), there's more quality bigs than ever.

[Dejounte]

Yeah, make "us" 5.4 points per 100 possessions better (115.4 to 110.0), which is the difference between the 6th and 24th best defense.



If you define bigs as center or combo/hybrid, then relatively speaking (although two-big lineups are making a comeback, there's still less of them than their used to be), there's more quality bigs than ever.

I think that stat is being read into too much. He’s surrounded by talented offensive players that’s amplifying that stat. Is he helping those guys score by setting perfect screens? Maybe. That would be the only reason why that metric is above average since it sure isn’t his offensive talent. Nobody’s going to convince me that catching lobs is some sort of great offensive skill. Especially since it’s not a great fit on this team. He might get those the way Bassey gets it from Castle, but that’s about it.

[TD 21]

I think that stat is being read into too much. He’s surrounded by talented offensive players that’s amplifying that stat. Is he helping those guys score by setting perfect screens? Maybe. That would be the only reason why that metric is above average since it sure isn’t his offensive talent. Nobody’s going to convince me that catching lobs is some sort of great offensive skill. Especially since it’s not a great fit on this team. He might get those the way Bassey gets it from Castle, but that’s about it.

I was referencing the defensive impact of Wembanyama.

There's a reason centers with limited offensive skills like Chandler, Jordan, Gobert and Capela had strong offensive metrics/impact in their prime: Good screeners who rim run and vertically space help create separation for ball handlers and open up weak side corners threes.

[BackHome]

While I have no reason to doubt the Spurs and medical professionals (and the experience of BI and Ausar) and I believe Wemby will be back at full strength next year... I still think it would behoove us to prepare for the chance (no matter how slim) that Wemby doesn't come back or can't be relied upon to play 70 games + playoffs going forward and needs to be load managed.

This doesn't mean trading him away or anything stupid like that... but more in terms that we should probably invest in a high quality big who can start at the 5 or just be a high end backup. I don't know if Maluach is that guy or not, or if that guy is even in this draft.

I think this gets a lot easier to do if we somehow luck into Flagg. Because at point, I am filling the rest of the wing positions with 3&D role players anyway and should be able to devise a rotation that has two of Fox/Castle/Flagg/Wemby on the court at all times. That would be devastating for the league. I no longer need to find a wing with high end scoring upside (like a McNeeley) to make up for the deficiencies of the other wing position. So I want a guy who can step in if Wemby needs to miss games and for our team to still be a major threat with a core of Fox/Castle/Flagg. I don't need a world beater, but I need that guy to be a Duren/Claxton/Zubac/Jak level C who isn't going to be a glaring hole.

This becomes a bigger challenge if we are picking 10 and 11... but it's still on my mind.

Even before the Blood clout issue I was seeing that Wemby needs a legit backup one of my biggest concerns is when teams play him very physical he doesn't do to well. And we all know that when the Playoffs start the physicality goes up a couple of notches and there is not enough time to rest and take your foot of the pedal when your playing in a seven-game series.

As far as this upcoming draft I hope for the best but would still be very happy if we landed McNeeley at SF and Flemings/Wolf at PF/C - Even if we land Naz I would still try to pick up a Center in the second round.

[scott]

Even before the Blood clout issue I was seeing that Wemby needs a legit backup one of my biggest concerns is when teams play him very physical he doesn't do to well. And we all know that when the Playoffs start the physicality goes up a couple of notches and there is not enough time to rest and take your foot of the pedal when your playing in a seven-game series.

As far as this upcoming draft I hope for the best but would still be very happy if we landed McNeeley at SF and Flemings/Wolf at PF/C - Even if we land Naz I would still try to pick up a Center in the second round.

OKC saw the need to add high end size next to Chet in Hartenstein even after Chet had a completely healthy season. I wonder if we should be thinking the same.

[mo7888]

OKC saw the need to add high end size next to Chet in Hartenstein even after Chet had a completely healthy season. I wonder if we should be thinking the same.

Give me Naz, De Larrea or McNeely, and Fleming and I'm pretty happy.

[scott]

Give me Naz, De Larrea or McNeely, and Fleming and I'm pretty happy.

I think the odds are low to begin with... but I'm going to make this statement in hopes of inspiring the reverse jinx...

Naz won't be coming here.

[mystargtr34]

OKC saw the need to add high end size next to Chet in Hartenstein even after Chet had a completely healthy season. I wonder if we should be thinking the same.

I don’t think Wemby can play PF he’s just too slow laterally at 7’5.

Chet can somewhat move laterally similar to Mobley.

I do think however Wemby needs a solid backup c (obvious) and a bigger stronger wing/forward starting next to him at the 4. Naz Reid, Rasheer Fleming, Aldama type. Even a PJ Washington is good.

[BackHome]

Well the Spurs are finally embracing the Tank but man loosing twice to the worst NBA team is kinda embarrassing. But we just overtook Portland for the 9th pick and I legitimately think we can get as low as the 7th pick but can’t see us passing Philly.

[rascal]

Spurs odds of a top 4 up to 20% on Tankathon, jumped Portland.

[Pauleta14]

Why do so many of you want Harper when we have Castle and Fox?

We need wings

[John B]

I don’t think Wemby can play PF he’s just too slow laterally at 7’5.

Chet can somewhat move laterally similar to Mobley.

I do think however Wemby needs a solid backup c (obvious) and a bigger stronger wing/forward starting next to him at the 4. Naz Reid, Rasheer Fleming, Aldama type. Even a PJ Washington is good.

What universe did you see Wemby moving slow? Have you seen him covered the likes of Kyrie or Curry? What Wemby cannot guard are heavy strong C who puts weights on him like Zubac, Sengun, Embiid or Zion who use their weight. Wemby needs help depending those types and a tweener like Sochan will not do. Wemby has no problem guarding the likes of Giannis, Tatum, JJJ, long athletic players. Wemby eats them for breakfast.

[rascal]

Why do so many of you want Harper when we have Castle and Fox?

We need wings

Trade Vassell for a wing. Harper is going to be a beast, that's why.

[spurraider21]

Why do so many of you want Harper when we have Castle and Fox?

We need wings
if you think theres enough of a talent gap, you take the best player available and figure it out later. if you think theyre pretty close, then you can start looking at need/fit. harper has been phenomenal this year.

would a starting unit of Fox/Harper/Castle work... dont know. but you figure out the rest later. maybe you move one down the line, but you take the more valuable guy now. kings drafted haliburton when they already had fox. haliburton was really good in sacto, and they ended up getting a good return for him. imagine kings had chosen a lesser player than haliburton because of their positional need and took a big like isaiah stewart instead. they'd have given up a ton of value in doing so.

[Bruno]

Johni Broome might actually be my top prospect for Spurs second round pick. He isn't a sexy pick by being old and quite undersized but he just seems to be a good basketball player. There is a good probability he turns into a solid backup C in the NBA.

[TD 21]

In no particular order, players I could see them targeting if the picks end up in the projected range and in the cases of some, they actually enter it: Malauch, Knueppel, McNeeley, Sorber, Richardson, Riley, Bryant, Penda.

[Uriel]

Johni Broome might actually be my top prospect for Spurs second round pick. He isn't a sexy pick by being old and quite undersized but he just seems to be a good basketball player. There is a good probability he turns into a solid backup C in the NBA.
Couldn’t we have said the same thing about Drew Timme?

[Guru of Nothing]

Rutgers (Dylan Harper, Ace Baily) at Michigan (Danny Wolf) on Peacock tonight at 8:00 central.

[John B]

Rutgers (Dylan Harper, Ace Baily) at Michigan (Danny Wolf) on Peacock tonight at 8:00 central.

Thanks.

[scott]

Not even slightly impressed by this Wolf guy

[mo7888]

Not even slightly impressed by this Wolf guy

Not his best night for sure. I'm more interested in the Harper/Bailey evaluations. There's some Brandon Miller in Bailey's game. He a much better fit here.

[keithington1]

Essengue and Newell would fix the defense and length isssue. You can always sign some shooters.
Fox, Vassell, Castle, Newell, Wemby
Wesely, Branham, Essengue, Barnes, Sochan

[CGD]

Not his best night for sure. I'm more interested in the Harper/Bailey evaluations. There's some Brandon Miller in Bailey's game. He a much better fit here.

Bailey makes a ton of sense on paper. The real question is the stuff between the ears.

[SpursBills]

Essengue and Newell would fix the defense and length isssue. You can always sign some shooters.
Fox, Vassell, Castle, Newell, Wemby
Wesely, Branham, Essengue, Barnes, Sochan

If this is the actual 10 man rotation for next season Wemby should probably just go ahead and ask for a trade

[rascal]

Bailey makes a ton of sense on paper. The real question is the stuff between the ears.

Why do you question his smarts?

[John B]

Not even slightly impressed by this Wolf guy

Not his best night. Still 10, 8 and 4 in the win column.

[tim_duncan_fan]

I'm an uncultured swine that really doesn't keep up with college ball. Is there anything close to a potential all-star low-post scoring big in this draft?

We also need a wing who can shoot off the dribble and make 3s at a more-than-solid clip, but I would commit a series of murders for a young, talented, traditional big.

[CGD]

Why do you question his smarts?

Because he's 18, pretty much single minded gunner right now, and at least one of the profiles on him suggest that "feel for the game and basketball IQ are a work in progress." It's not dispositive obviously -- lots of prospects will be dinged on "feel," so the real question is character, etc.

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/ace-bailey/

I say all this, but Bailey is still my top non-Cooper pick.

[exstatic]

I'm an uncultured swine that really doesn't keep up with college ball. Is there anything close to a potential all-star low-post scoring big in this draft?

We also need a wing who can shoot off the dribble and make 3s at a more-than-solid clip, but I would commit a series of murders for a young, talented, traditional big.

Do you have a Time Machine? You’ll need one to find a league in which such a player is relevant.

[couchman]

I'm an uncultured swine that really doesn't keep up with college ball. Is there anything close to a potential all-star low-post scoring big in this draft?

We also need a wing who can shoot off the dribble and make 3s at a more-than-solid clip, but I would commit a series of murders for a young, talented, traditional big.

Maybe Queen is as close as you’ll get. I think he’s underrated even through mocks have him going around 10-12.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Do you have a Time Machine? You’ll need one to find a league in which such a player is relevant.

Joker is not exactly locked to shooting jumpers exclusively.



Maybe Queen is as close as you’ll get. I think he’s underrated even through mocks have him going around 10-12.

Will check him out, thank you.

[couchman]

Joker is not exactly locked to shooting jumpers exclusively.




Will check him out, thank you.

I actually think he might be the worthy of the 5 pick but that's not a popular opinion right now because his game is old school.
I'd be thrilled for us to pick him up around the 9-12 picks.

My top 5 BPA list right now:
1. Flagg
2. Harper
3. Edgecombe
4. Bailey
5. Queen

I'm split on Maluach or Tre Johnson for the #6 spot
I'm down on Jakucionis and Knueppel, I don't think their games will translate well to the league so I hope other teams burn early picks on them.

As for guys likely to be available around #9-12, I like Queen, McNeely, and Newell.
Queen and McNeely would contribute immediately.
Newell is more of a project but a very promising one.

[scott]

Interesting thread topic on reddit... essentially "what is your worst case scenario for the draft?"

Below is what I came up with. What is your worst case scenario?

Spurs finish with the 10th lottery seeding, Atlanta makes the playoffs. Someone jumps ahead of us in the lottery and we end up with picks #11 and #15.

At 11, Knueppel, McNeeley, Newell, Tre Johnson, Maluach have all been picked. We have one of Fears/Traore on the top of our board and take one of them. A non-shooting PG who at best will be a backup to Fox for the duration of Swipa's contract.

At 15, CMB, Fleming, Essengue have been picked ahead of us. We're left to choose between Derik Queen, Hugo Gonzales, Ben Saraf, Egor Demin. Again, all non-shooters. Saraf and Demin have some playmaking capabilities that interest me, and maybe Demin can slot in as a playmaking SF, but it doesn't really fit what we need.

This would be my worst case scenario. We'll still have added some talent to our team (which is never a bad thing), but it will be in spots where these guys are going to take some considerable time to develop into real contributors to our team and we will have not addressed our biggest needs.

[exstatic]

Joker is not exactly locked to shooting jumpers exclusively.

What you described was NOT Joker. He is most certainly not a traditional low post big. He’s a one off, the same way Wemby is, but sure, if you find exactly Joker II, you draft him. Doubt you find him in college, though. Joker’s game s pure Euro.

[SpursBills]

Interesting thread topic on reddit... essentially "what is your worst case scenario for the draft?"

Below is what I came up with. What is your worst case scenario?

Spurs finish with the 10th lottery seeding, Atlanta makes the playoffs. Someone jumps ahead of us in the lottery and we end up with picks #11 and #15.

At 11, Knueppel, McNeeley, Newell, Tre Johnson, Maluach have all been picked. We have one of Fears/Traore on the top of our board and take one of them. A non-shooting PG who at best will be a backup to Fox for the duration of Swipa's contract.

At 15, CMB, Fleming, Essengue have been picked ahead of us. We're left to choose between Derik Queen, Hugo Gonzales, Ben Saraf, Egor Demin. Again, all non-shooters. Saraf and Demin have some playmaking capabilities that interest me, and maybe Demin can slot in as a playmaking SF, but it doesn't really fit what we need.

This would be my worst case scenario. We'll still have added some talent to our team (which is never a bad thing), but it will be in spots where these guys are going to take some considerable time to develop into real contributors to our team and we will have not addressed our biggest needs.

I think taking Traore with our first pick would piss me off the most, followed by Demin. Reaching for Newell with our first pick if CMB and Fleming were both on the board in position to be taken with our second pick.

If we land a top 4 pick, taking KJ would make me melt down.

If we took both Kon and McNeeley, I'd be pretty annoyed, but not nearly as annoyed as rascal.

[keithington1]

If this is the actual 10 man rotation for next season Wemby should probably just go ahead and ask for a tradeWhat is the solution ?

[Mal]

Essengue and Newell would fix the defense and length isssue. You can always sign some shooters.
Fox, Vassell, Castle, Newell, Wemby
Wesely, Branham, Essengue, Barnes, Sochan

Essengue is just a raw as Risacher, so he would not contribute right away. Potential is there, but he is a project.
Branham, Weasley in rotation, not backup C. Where is Keldon ? Sold for future protected 2nd ?

It's bad, very bad

[BackHome]

Yeah, really looking to see what happens this summer a big question will be what will they do with Keldon and Vassell? Also, what is going to happen with Cp3 and Barnes, will we resign CP, and what do we do with Barnes on his last year will he be part of a trade?

Another issue is that we need to find at least two new bigs this summer as Collins is gone and Bassey knees are huge red flags that can no longer be ignored. As far as Blake and Branham I have seen enough they just are not cutting it and it is time to move on.

If it was me I would go ahead and have Fox have his surgery and I would want to try to do the following;

1. Find out if Castle can handle full time PG duties?
2. Try and push up the trade value of Vassell, Keldon, Branham, and Blake

[cutewizard]

Guys

How did the win today affect our standings?

[Mal]

Guys

How did the win today affect our standings?

It didnt tbh. Still 9th, we need to root for Bulls, Portland to keep winning and Hawks to keep losing. I doubt Spurs would be better than 8 and 9 in odds.

[cutewizard]

It didnt tbh. Still 9th, we need to root for Bulls, Portland to keep winning and Hawks to keep losing. I doubt Spurs would be better than 8 and 9 in odds.

Thanks Sir

[Uriel]

The general consensus about this draft seems to be that the top 5 picks are in a tier of their own, and then picks 6 through 20 are all roughly the same tier.

That makes it even more imperative that at least one of our two lottery picks lands somewhere in the top 4. Right now, the odds of that happening are about 1 in 3.

[mo7888]

Michigan vs Illinois right now:
Wolf, Kasparas Jackucionis, Will Riley, and the better Ivisic brother.

[Dejounte]

Poor defense and has largely been ineffective all game —> Wolf

bUt I dOnT wAtCH tHe GaMeS according to the guy who only watches highlights John B

[Dejounte]

Michigan’s coach has had to sit Wolf down because he’s been such a massive liability on defense.

but this is the guy who’s going to help the Spurs

the same Spurs team that struggles heavily on defense and having opposing teams going on 20-0 runs against them because of the poor perimeter defense

[mo7888]

Michigan’s coach has had to sit Wolf down because he’s been such a massive liability on defense.

but this is the guy who’s going to help the Spurs

the same Spurs team that struggles heavily on defense and having opposing teams going on 20-0 runs against them because of the poor perimeter defense

Wolf has been pretty bad this game and in the Rutgers game. On the bright side today, though, Kasparas looks great, and Riley is much improved since earlier in the season. I really like both guys, albeit at different draft positions.

[BackHome]

I still like Wolf but it's going to take a good coach or system to get the most out of him and we have neither at this point. I think a great fit for him would be in Golden State, that is a system that would be able to use his abilities to get the most out of him.

As far as watching him play I always have liked the Center he plays with V. Goldin he has really come on strong the last couple of games and I love that he plays with a lot of passion something we are lacking. Both him and T. Ivisic, and Raynaud are Centers I like in the Second Round.

At this point if Mcneeley or Fears is off the board I am fine with taking Fleming with our second pick

[mo7888]

I still like Wolf but it's going to take a good coach or system to get the most out of him and we have neither at this point. I think a great fit for him would be in Golden State, that is a system that would be able to use his abilities to get the most out of him.

As far as watching him play I always have liked the Center he plays with V. Goldin he has really come on strong the last couple of games and I love that he plays with a lot of passion something we are lacking. Both him and T. Ivisic, and Raynaud are Centers I like in the Second Round.

At this point if Mcneeley or Fears is off the board I am fine with taking Fleming with our second pick

I still like Wolf as well, but nowhere near where we or Atlanta pick. If we trade back or if he's available in the 2nd round is a range I'd be comfortable with.

[Bruno]

The more I look at that daft the more I think Spurs could get quality players even if Hawks pick slide to 15th/16th.

Liam McNeeley, Hugo Gonzalez, Carter Bryant, Rasheer Fleming and Asa Newell all look like fine prospects for Spurs.

If Spurs want to trade Vassell, there are also some quality SGs in this draft with Tre Johnson, Kon Knueppel and Jase Richardson.

There might have other interesting players like Will Riley, Ian Jackson or Drake Powell but I haven't looked enough at them to have an opinion.

[Guru of Nothing]

Wolf has backslid a little these past two games. Unless he shows out in the tournament, he's firmly out of the Spurs range. Saw tankathon mocking him to the Nuggets, which would be interesting.

[mo7888]

The more I look at that daft the more I think Spurs could get quality players even if Hawks pick slide to 15th/16th.

Liam McNeeley, Hugo Gonzalez, Carter Bryant, Rasheer Fleming and Asa Newell all look like fine prospects for Spurs.

If Spurs want to trade Vassell, there are also some quality SGs in this draft with Tre Johnson, Kon Knueppel and Jase Richardson.

There might have other interesting players like Will Riley, Ian Jackson or Drake Powell but I haven't looked enough at them to have an opinion.

It kinda of comes down to how we want to play it. For instance, Knueppel is well ahead of Riley, but Riley probably has a good bit more upside if he hits although it'll take a year or two because he's raw, while Knueppel is plug and play day 1 and has a pretty high floor.

[CGD]

The more I look at that daft the more I think Spurs could get quality players even if Hawks pick slide to 15th/16th.

Liam McNeeley, Hugo Gonzalez, Carter Bryant, Rasheer Fleming and Asa Newell all look like fine prospects for Spurs.

If Spurs want to trade Vassell, there are also some quality SGs in this draft with Tre Johnson, Kon Knueppel and Jase Richardson.

There might have other interesting players like Will Riley, Ian Jackson or Drake Powell but I haven't looked enough at them to have an opinion.

I agree with this. There are players at 15 that I like (e.g., Asa, Denim, and even McNeely who I really like), that would be reaches at say 7. And, like that Sochan draft, that range between 6-10 looks kinda suspect in this draft (but maybe that all drafts?).

[mo7888]

If Castle keeps this up we may have our #2 and should turn our attention to complimentary players. This would mean preferring players with a higher floor over players with a high ceiling but high bust potential. Players like Kasparas, McNeely, Knueppel, Newell, De Larrea, Bryant, and Proctor. I realize a couple of those would be trade back scenarios.

[exstatic]

If Castle keeps this up we may have our #3 and should turn our attention to complimentary players. This would mean preferring players with a higher floor over players with a high ceiling but high bust potential. Players like Kasparas, McNeely, Knueppel, Newell, De Larrea, Bryant, and Proctor. I realize a couple of those would be trade back scenarios.

Fox is the #2.

[mo7888]

Fox is the #2.

For the moment...

[exstatic]

For the moment...

If Castle surpasses him, the Fox is the #3. Either way, we have 2 and 3 on board already.

[mo7888]

If Castle surpasses him, the Fox is the #3. Either way, we have 2 and 3 on board already.

Agreed...which is why I'm saying that Castle's trajectory may impact the type of player we draft and look for more ready msde high floor guys instead of the wilder swings that come with high ceiling-low floor guys.

[rascal]

Agreed...which is why I'm saying that Castle's trajectory may impact the type of player we draft and look for more ready msde high floor guys instead of the wilder swings that come with high ceiling-low floor guys.

You get the second overall pick you drafft Harper. Harper may end up the number 2.

Look how much more athletic and deeper OK City is compared to the Spurs. It took the Spurs to shoot a record number of 3 pointers in the first half to even stay close.

Spurs aren't at a point you trade out of a top four draft pick for role players.

[John B]

Agreed...which is why I'm saying that Castle's trajectory may impact the type of player we draft and look for more ready msde high floor guys instead of the wilder swings that come with high ceiling-low floor guys.

If our 1st pick falls on top 4, I’d take the BPA available. The talent falls from 5-16 and I agree I wouldn’t want like Maluach, high ceiling high bust. I’m okay with Newell. But I really like Wolf because of his high floor. For sure he’s got a not so good couple of games. He’s a 7 footer big body who contributes in all facets of the game, a connector. I’m okay with Newell and even Queen (if he can work on his shots). Currently Spurs are picks 9th and 10th. I’m confident they can find that big PF they desperately need whether from draft, FA or trade.

[exstatic]

You get the second overall pick you drafft Harper. Harper may end up the number 2.

Look how much more athletic and deeper OK City is compared to the Spurs. It took the Spurs to shoot a record number of 3 pointers in the first half to even stay close.

Spurs aren't at a point you trade out of a top four draft pick for role players.

No one was proposing that.

[CGD]

You get the second overall pick you drafft Harper. Harper may end up the number 2.

Look how much more athletic and deeper OK City is compared to the Spurs. It took the Spurs to shoot a record number of 3 pointers in the first half to even stay close.

Spurs aren't at a point you trade out of a top four draft pick for role players.

Yeah Harper is a stud. But I dont think Mo is saying take a specialist if we get into the Top 3, more that it isn’t bad, if say, our picks end up 8 and 15 because we could actually use them on helpful specialists given we seem to have big 3 emerging. To me that means shooting and rebounding.

[rascal]

No one was proposing that.

I saw MO7888 write trade back scenarios for Kasparas, McNeely, Newell, Knepple etc. Where would you be trading back from since these guys are going just outside the top 4???

"If Castle keeps this up we may have our #2 and should turn our attention to complimentary players". So no need for a high ceiling player since we have our number 2.

[exstatic]

I saw MO7888 write trade back scenarios for Kasparas, McNeely, Newell, Knepple etc. Where would you be trading back from since these guys are going just outside the top 4???

"If Castle keeps this up we may have our #2 and should turn our attention to complimentary players". So no need for a high ceiling player since we have our number 2.
Only Kneupple is even in the top 10. His proposal was for worst case, if we draw like 10 and 15. No one on this board, that I’ve seen, has ever proposed trading out of the top 4. You pick BPA, and sort it out later.

[Mal]

"If Castle keeps this up we may have our #2 and should turn our attention to complimentary players".

This. You already have option 1,2,3 on the roster. You have primary and secondary ball handler and rim protector in those. You have useful guys with future tbd in Sochan and Vassell. But outside coaching, this team badly needs more shooting and rebounding, and I would love to address those issues with two lotto picks

[cutewizard]

If we acquire Naz Reid

Then
Wemby
Fox
Castle
Reid......

So we fill in the gaps with?

[mo7888]

You get the second overall pick you drafft Harper. Harper may end up the number 2.

Look how much more athletic and deeper OK City is compared to the Spurs. It took the Spurs to shoot a record number of 3 pointers in the first half to even stay close.

Spurs aren't at a point you trade out of a top four draft pick for role players.

I'm not referring to a top pick. That's a long shot. I wouldn't take Harper at 2 or 3 though. My order for the top 4 would be Flagg, Edgecombe, Bailey, then Harper. If we're outside of that range (which should be the expectation) we should take one of the other guys I listed.

[mo7888]

If our 1st pick falls on top 4, I’d take the BPA available. The talent falls from 5-16 and I agree I wouldn’t want like Maluach, high ceiling high bust. I’m okay with Newell. But I really like Wolf because of his high floor. For sure he’s got a not so good couple of games. He’s a 7 footer big body who contributes in all facets of the game, a connector. I’m okay with Newell and even Queen (if he can work on his shots). Currently Spurs are picks 9th and 10th. I’m confident they can find that big PF they desperately need whether from draft, FA or trade.

I don't think Wolf's floor is that high. I'd look at him anyway after pick #20.

[mo7888]

I saw MO7888 write trade back scenarios for Kasparas, McNeely, Newell, Knepple etc. Where would you be trading back from since these guys are going just outside the top 4???

"If Castle keeps this up we may have our #2 and should turn our attention to complimentary players". So no need for a high ceiling player since we have our number 2.

No...trade back scenarios were not for those guys. It was for Proctor or Bryant. You wouldn't take those guys around pick #10. You'd trade back and get another asset if you targeted one of them. Ex is exactly right..

[mo7888]

Only Kneupple is even in the top 10. His proposal was for worst case, if we draw like 10 and 15. No one on this board, that I’ve seen, has ever proposed trading out of the top 4. You pick BPA, and sort it out later.

100%

[scott]

I don't think Wolf's floor is that high. I'd look at him anyway after pick #20.

Wolf's floor appears to be "out of the league" from my non-expert view. I'm not seeing anything other than a fun college player. He and Drew Timme can light up the G-League together before heading over to dominate the Shanghai Sharks.

[scott]

I saw MO7888 write trade back scenarios for Kasparas, McNeely, Newell, Knepple etc. Where would you be trading back from since these guys are going just outside the top 4???

"If Castle keeps this up we may have our #2 and should turn our attention to complimentary players". So no need for a high ceiling player since we have our number 2.

Remember when I mentioned your lack of reading comprehension? This is another example.

[The Truth #6]

The two underappreciated archetypes I find interesting are:
1. Fat guy with skills
2. Undersized scorer with skills.

I'm not getting too invested in this draft yet. But it sounds like Derick Queen and Jeremiah Frears fit these two types, respectfully.

If we are drafting like 9 and 10, then curious what people think of that as our draft.

[scott]

The two underappreciated archetypes I find interesting are:
1. Fat guy with skills
2. Undersized scorer with skills.

I'm not getting too invested in this draft yet. But it sounds like Derick Queen and Jeremiah Frears fit these two types, respectfully.

If we are drafting like 9 and 10, then curious what people think of that as our draft.

Fears is among my worst-case scenario outcomes for this draft. Undersized guard who can't shoot and who at best would project to be a backup PG for as long as we plan on Fox being here.

I have less strong opinions about Queen, but unless you plan on playing two bigs then you're using a Top-10 pick on a backup C who doesn't play any defense. Seems like a bad investment.

Things can change... but a Fears-Queen draft would amount to one of the biggest "wtf just happened" drafts possible.

[The Truth #6]

Ahh. I didn't realize Frears can't shoot. Nevermind. I'm looking for someone more Tyrese Maxey or Jared McCain who slip only due to height.

But overall, regardless of height or body mass index, finding players who are comfortable operating with the ball in their hands to me is important.

Anyway. Just rambling...but drafting a backup C doesn't bother me. I think it should be a priority. With Wemby's height, lots of possibilities for injuries. Or, just to give him time to rest and not have to play Sochan as center.

[Kevin]

I haven't done much research on this years supposedly strong draft class but if an undersized PG with shooting issues is a top 10ish pick I am not feeling the best about this years draft.

[rascal]

Only Kneupple is even in the top 10. His proposal was for worst case, if we draw like 10 and 15. No one on this board, that I’ve seen, has ever proposed trading out of the top 4. You pick BPA, and sort it out later.

Not true

Tankathon has Kasparas at 5 and Newell also is at 9.

[rascal]

Remember when I mentioned your lack of reading comprehension? This is another example.

Disagree

He wrote trade back scenarios FOR players and he mentioned players inside the top 10.

It can be taken either way.

But we all agree you keep a top 4 pick in they are lucky to get one.

[keithington1]

Essengue is just a raw as Risacher, so he would not contribute right away. Potential is there, but he is a project.
Branham, Weasley in rotation, not backup C. Where is Keldon ? Sold for future protected 2nd ?

It's bad, very badThis teams needs defense if they ever plan on beating playoff teams. Newell would be the center when Wemby rests. I think Cp3 sucks at defense so Wesley or Branham or both deserve a chance. They are talented. Johnson just doesn’t seem to fit this team as far as winning is concerned. Branham is much more talented than Champ. This roster needs to be revamped. Still no cohesion.

[baseline bum]

This teams needs defense if they ever plan on beating playoff teams. Newell would be the center when Wemby rests. I think Cp3 sucks at defense so Wesley or Branham or both deserve a chance. They are talented. Johnson just doesn’t seem to fit this team as far as winning is concerned. Branham is much more talented than Champ. This roster needs to be revamped. Still no cohesion.

CP3 is a pretty above average defensive player. Branham makes Vassell look like Scottie Pippen.

[keithington1]

CP3 is a pretty above average defensive player. Branham makes Vassell look like Scottie Pippen.CP3 is barbecue chicken out there some of the worst close outs I’ve ever seen. He has been a great mentor. I hope Wesley is ready to be backup pg. That adds a whole new dynamic to the team if Wesley is playing confident just as fast as Fox. Branham is fine on defense they just need a better defensive scheme. Branham is there to score. How Spurs gonna beat OKC and Houston without long athletic defenders?

[Knoxxx]

With Vassell looking dubious sure you take a Harper or Edgecombe though not above a Flagg/Bailey. We need rim protection from the PF or C position. Wings like Jaku, Knueppel, McNeeley should be available if we don’t hit top 4 and will get us some shooting. Still like Kalkbrenner in the 2nd round as a possible backup C solution and with 40% 3 PT shooting he can probably play with Wemby some too.

[rascal]

Essengue is raw like Ousmane Dieng. Rather see the Spurs go for McNeeley.

Calling it now Spurs will be drafting McNeeley

[baseline bum]

CP3 is barbecue chicken out there some of the worst close outs I’ve ever seen. He has been a great mentor. I hope Wesley is ready to be backup pg. That adds a whole new dynamic to the team if Wesley is playing confident just as fast as Fox. Branham is fine on defense they just need a better defensive scheme. Branham is there to score. How Spurs gonna beat OKC and Houston without long athletic defenders?

Paul's in the 84th percentile in crafted DPM. Branham is 2nd percentile.

https://craftednba.com/players/comparison?player1=chris-paul&player2=malaki-branham

I also remember for most of last year Branham was letting his man shoot 57% against him. Yes a guard who turned everyone he defended into 2000 Shaq.

[The Truth #6]

Essengue is raw like Ousmane Dieng. Rather see the Spurs go for McNeeley.

Calling it now Spurs will be drafting McNeeley

I thought he suffered from a Chronic Melanin Deficiency?

[keithington1]

Essengue is raw like Ousmane Dieng. Rather see the Spurs go for McNeeley.

Calling it now Spurs will be drafting McNeeley1 on 1 Essengue would clamp down Mcneeley making it hard for him to dribble or shoot. Essengue would probably get to the bucket and dunk on him at least twice while easily getting to the bucket almost every time. Score would probably be 12 5

[rjv]

Good thing this isn’t a one on one league.

[exstatic]

Ahh. I didn't realize Frears can't shoot. Nevermind. I'm looking for someone more Tyrese Maxey or Jared McCain who slip only due to height.

But overall, regardless of height or body mass index, finding players who are comfortable operating with the ball in their hands to me is important.

Anyway. Just rambling...but drafting a backup C doesn't bother me. I think it should be a priority. With Wemby's height, lots of possibilities for injuries. Or, just to give him time to rest and not have to play Sochan as center.

Fears shoots 84% on good volume from the FT line. They would call that a strong shooting signal, plus, he will be 18 on draft night.

Tyrese Maxey shot 29% from 3 at UK. He was also a 83% FT shooter. Shooting signal is a thing.

[SpursBills]

Ahh. I didn't realize Frears can't shoot. Nevermind. I'm looking for someone more Tyrese Maxey or Jared McCain who slip only due to height.

But overall, regardless of height or body mass index, finding players who are comfortable operating with the ball in their hands to me is important.

Anyway. Just rambling...but drafting a backup C doesn't bother me. I think it should be a priority. With Wemby's height, lots of possibilities for injuries. Or, just to give him time to rest and not have to play Sochan as center.

I think Fears is going to shoot, he's got a high FT percentage, he's shooting 45% on 95% unassisted midrange shots, and 40% of his 3s are unassisted makes. My issue is him isn't his shooting, it's pretty much everything else. He probably won't, but he really needs to go back to school for another year. Man's got an offensive rating of 93 in conference play and he keeps turning the ball over. The flashes are awesome, but the consistency just isn't there, even considering his age. I think if you draft him he's probably going to go the g league route for at least 2 years before he becomes a positive contributor for the team, even off the bench. That's not a bad idea if you could say, get him in the mid-late teens and develop him with the idea of having him replace Fox in 5 years, but if you're taking him with a mid-lottery pick that's a harder sell.

[exstatic]

I think Fears is going to shoot, he's got a high FT percentage, he's shooting 45% on 95% unassisted midrange shots, and 40% of his 3s are unassisted makes. My issue is him isn't his shooting, it's pretty much everything else. He probably won't, but he really needs to go back to school for another year. Man's got an offensive rating of 93 in conference play and he keeps turning the ball over. The flashes are awesome, but the consistency just isn't there, even considering his age. I think if you draft him he's probably going to go the g league route for at least 2 years before he becomes a positive contributor for the team, even off the bench. That's not a bad idea if you could say, get him in the mid-late teens and develop him with the idea of having him replace Fox in 5 years, but if you're taking him with a mid-lottery pick that's a harder sell.

He’s 18, so his game shows some slop and inefficiency in D1. Won’t take two years to cleanup the turnovers and three ball, though. If you don’t need him to contribute next season and he can just develop, he’d be a value pick anywhere like 7/8 or later.

[ginobilized]

Just spit-balling here, but, I hope we strongly consider trading a 2025 pick for either or both of Cam Johnson or Naz Reid if we are not in the top 6 or so.
Throw in Vassell, KJ and future picks if necessary. In my mind, Cam and Naz would get us to a competitive level next season and we could bring along one rookie on a more traditional path than the fast trajectories of Castle and Wemby. Of course, I know nothing of caps and contracts. Just know the team I'd like to see next season.

Fox/CP3
Castle/Champagnie
Cam/?
Reid/Sochan
Wemby/?

Maybe McNeely could slot behind Cam and we keep Biyombo as a backup if we lose KJ and Vassell? This is likely not feasible, but, I'd be cool with these types of moves if we are not in the range of real difference makers.

[exstatic]

Just spit-balling here, but, I hope we strongly consider trading a 2025 pick for either or both of Cam Johnson or Naz Reid if we are not in the top 6 or so.
Throw in Vassell, KJ and future picks if necessary. In my mind, Cam and Naz would get us to a competitive level next season and we could bring along one rookie on a more traditional path than the fast trajectories of Castle and Wemby. Of course, I know nothing of caps and contracts. Just know the team I'd like to see next season.

Fox/CP3
Castle/Champagnie
Cam/?
Reid/Sochan
Wemby/?

Maybe McNeely could slot behind Cam and we keep Biyombo as a backup if we lose KJ and Vassell? This is likely not feasible, but, I'd be cool with these types of moves if we are not in the range of real difference makers.

I think McNeely is going to be better than Cam. If you look at his TaT profile,he has both high 3PA rate and high FTA rate. That’s not a normal mix to see a guy who chucks up a lot of 3s AND gets to the line a lot. You’re not really doing yourself any favors running him off the line.

[mo7888]

Disagree

He wrote trade back scenarios FOR players and he mentioned players inside the top 10.

It can be taken either way.

But we all agree you keep a top 4 pick in they are lucky to get one.

I gave a list of players that fit an archetype. Some were in the top ten and some are projected in the 20's. I was clear that some on the list would be trade back guys because we wouldn't spend a top 10 pick on that. I thought that was pretty easy to understand, but yet here you are...

[BackHome]

I think Fears is going to be really good as most of us would love him if we had not signed Fox - I think he is so good if he is there when we draft I would bet we get a couple of calls regarding teams trading up to get him. As far as McNeely he just seems a perfect pick for us a good player who fits a need and will have a long career in the NBA.

[exstatic]

I think Fears is going to be really good as most of us would love him if we had not signed Fox - I think he is so good if he is there when we draft I would bet we get a couple of calls regarding teams trading up to get him. As far as McNeely he just seems a perfect pick for us a good player who fits a need and will have a long career in the NBA.

Fears is 18. Fox is 27. If CP comes back, it will be for one more year, which is also the amount of time left on Wesley’s deal. There should be some PT for him in 26-27. If CP does not return, there will be some minutes available next year.

[ginobilized]

I think McNeely is going to be better than Cam. If you look at his TaT profile,he has both high 3PA rate and high FTA rate. That’s not a normal mix to see a guy who chucks up a lot of 3s AND gets to the line a lot. You’re not really doing yourself any favors running him off the line.

I need to do a deeper dive into this draft, no doubt. McNeely and Reid or bust!

[intlspurshk]

McNeely / Knueppel may not be quick enough to guard NBA players at SF position. Neswell / Queen / CMB would be within SPURS' pick and fill the PF position, which is also a position to be filled by the SPURS. Fears / Demin / Miles Byrd could also be drafted to fill the 'sixth man' scorer role. This assumes both picks aren't the top 8 draft picks.

[SpursBills]

One other consideration when determining drafting/trading/signing starting players is who is going to fulfill the role of big wing defender in the starting lineup. Right now the 3 spots that are likely locked down are Fox-Castle-Wemby. Of the two remaining slots, one of them has to either a) replace Sochan's wing defense while giving you more than he currently does on the offensive end or b) give you enough on offense so that Sochan becomes playable as starter.

Lebron and KD are retiring soon, but big wings that are too big/long/heavy/strong for Castle probably aren't going away anytime soon. Dudes like Tatum, Scottie Barnes, Luka, Franz Wagner, Paolo, and in the future Flagg, Dybantsa, Cam Boozer. I would not be in favor of starting a shooter like McNeeley + Naz Reid together because that lineup is probably getting torched by any big wing especially seeing McNeeley's man defense (which is terrible btw). Ideally Sochan gets played as a big wing (with hopefully a shooting leap) next to a shooting big like Naz Reid, or you get CMB/Fleming for those stronger guys next to someone like McNeeley (or ideally Ace Bailey). Either way this brings more balance to the lineup especially for future playoff runs.

This is also why I am against drafting guys like Newell or Wolf, especially as starters - they don't offer enough shooting to make a defensive specialist playable, but they don't offer enough perimeter defense against big wings either. It's basically forcing your other starter to be both a strong shooter and a high level big wing defender, which is a very hard player type to acquire (basically need a better shooting OG Anunoby)

[SpursBills]

Also, Cooper Flagg with a "holy fuck" performance today - handles, off the dribble jumpers, creation, dude looked like a bonafide first option offensive superstar tonight. Given age, production and what we've seen, he's probably a top 5 draft prospect in the last 15 years (for me personally at least)

1. Wemby
2. AD
3. Zion
4. Luka
5. Flagg

There's a huge gap between Flagg at 5 and the next tier, which is Paolo/Mobley/Ben Simmons/Cade/, and it's getting wider with every game.

[heyheymymy]

Good call SpursBills I was just thinking today what if Spurs double down and somehow land Fleming AND get Naz Reid

[BackHome]

I am cool with either getting Fleming or Naz but not both as getting two guys who are 6’9 just doesn’t make sense. For me it is still McNeely at SF as we need shooting and he can do that and he is not a bad defender and is a good rebounder. You pick him and then add Flemings who can play big PF or small Center then your cooking. After that add a Veteran big someone who could maybe help coach Wemby as CP3 did with Castle.

But it doesn’t matter what players we get if we don’t get the right coach that can put in a new system that can put us on the right path.

[scott]

getting two guys who are 6’9 just doesn’t make sense

Huh? I've never once in my life heard "too much length" as a weakness for a team :lol

[heyheymymy]

I say stuff the bigs corps because what's behind Wemby/Sochan/Barnes? Mamu, Biyombo and Charles Glassey?

And that's with question marks for Wemby who even if he recovers should now necessitate some pretty significant insurance depth around his position(s) to bolster and alleviate demands on him over along haul reg seasons.
On that point, you should get an established backup for Wemby too since it's now high priority. If Wemby needs time, you'd want a guy who knew the league and his go-to skillsets already and not some rookie big who still has a lot to learn. I like getting a rookie big too, possibly. But since Wemby may have durability issues, his bigs backup should be a reliable established player who can get right to work.

[heyheymymy]

But yeah perhaps Naz + Fleming is too much body type and play style redundancy, touché

I just like the spacing and that player mold is pretty much ideal for Spurs current needs so I got kinda "why not both?" lol. Shooting, size not at the expense of decent mobility, rebounding. At least one would seem suitable, I agree.

[mo7888]

Huh? I've never once in my life heard "too much length" as a weakness for a team :lol

It's like saying...I've got too much money...or I'm to good lookin... lol

[CGD]

Also, Cooper Flagg with a "holy fuck" performance today - handles, off the dribble jumpers, creation, dude looked like a bonafide first option offensive superstar tonight. Given age, production and what we've seen, he's probably a top 5 draft prospect in the last 15 years (for me personally at least)

1. Wemby
2. AD
3. Zion
4. Luka
5. Flagg

There's a huge gap between Flagg at 5 and the next tier, which is Paolo/Mobley/Ben Simmons/Cade/, and it's getting wider with every game.

Not sure how you are measuring (eg hype leading up to draft, or did hype meet reality), but Cade was definitely seen as a “can’t miss” prospect heading into his draft. And, now that injuries are past him, he is looking to have met the hype too. All that to say he’s closer to your top 5 tier above than the tier with the other names on your list.

[SpursBills]

Not sure how you are measuring (eg hype leading up to draft, or did hype meet reality), but Cade was definitely seen as a “can’t miss” prospect heading into his draft. And, now that injuries are past him, he is looking to have met the hype too. All that to say he’s closer to your top 5 tier above than the tier with the other names on your list.

Not based on consensus or hype, just roughly how I felt about them at the time. Cade was a great prospect, but he had a few concerns that dropped him down - mainly that he was supposed to be a big primary initiator but he had an AST:TO under 1, he was big but rebounded like a guy much smaller, and I had some athleticism/motor concerns. I thought he was similar to and arguably worse than Mobley, but better than everyone else in his class. Definitely not ‘can’t miss’ for me personally.

[mo7888]

I'm really warming to the thought of getting Kasparas with our top pick (for rascal's sake I'll say that I'm talking somewhere after pick 4). Love the handles and shooting, but the most intriguing part is his PnR game. It's very strong with Ivisic and it's not hard to see how it fits with Wemby.

[John B]

Poor defense and has largely been ineffective all game —> Wolf

bUt I dOnT wAtCH tHe GaMeS according to the guy who only watches highlights John B (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=42719)

It should be a good battle between your boy Queen vs Wolf tomorrow at 5:30pm CST.

[Guru of Nothing]

One other consideration when determining drafting/trading/signing starting players is who is going to fulfill the role of big wing defender in the starting lineup. Right now the 3 spots that are likely locked down are Fox-Castle-Wemby. Of the two remaining slots, one of them has to either a) replace Sochan's wing defense while giving you more than he currently does on the offensive end or b) give you enough on offense so that Sochan becomes playable as starter.

Lebron and KD are retiring soon, but big wings that are too big/long/heavy/strong for Castle probably aren't going away anytime soon. Dudes like Tatum, Scottie Barnes, Luka, Franz Wagner, Paolo, and in the future Flagg, Dybantsa, Cam Boozer. I would not be in favor of starting a shooter like McNeeley + Naz Reid together because that lineup is probably getting torched by any big wing especially seeing McNeeley's man defense (which is terrible btw). Ideally Sochan gets played as a big wing (with hopefully a shooting leap) next to a shooting big like Naz Reid, or you get CMB/Fleming for those stronger guys next to someone like McNeeley (or ideally Ace Bailey). Either way this brings more balance to the lineup especially for future playoff runs.

This is also why I am against drafting guys like Newell or Wolf, especially as starters - they don't offer enough shooting to make a defensive specialist playable, but they don't offer enough perimeter defense against big wings either. It's basically forcing your other starter to be both a strong shooter and a high level big wing defender, which is a very hard player type to acquire (basically need a better shooting OG Anunoby)

I have not paid too much attention to Tre Johnson, yet, but what I've seen on paper makes wonder if he would be the perfect complement to Sochan, where they have to get one anothers back on the court, and ultimately develop solid 2-way games. ... Something like Fox, Castle, Tre Johnson, Sochan, and Wemby developing into the starting 5. It's small ball, but I'd be interested. Could still draft size with other FRP and have a alternate 1B big starting lineup, and force mismatches.

[SpursBills]

My insane take for this draft season that will definitely not backfire in the next few years is that Collin Murray-Boyles is a top 5 prospect in this draft class.

[SpursBills]

I have not paid too much attention to Tre Johnson, yet, but what I've seen on paper makes wonder if he would be the perfect complement to Sochan, where they have to get one anothers back on the court, and ultimately develop solid 2-way games. ... Something like Fox, Castle, Tre Johnson, Sochan, and Wemby developing into the starting 5. It's small ball, but I'd be interested. Could still draft size with other FRP and have a alternate 1B big starting lineup, and force mismatches.

I think the ideal pairing for Sochan and any "undersized" big or big wing is actually Ace Bailey, but an Ace Bailey who is well coached, curbs his worst instincts, and plays more like Rashard Lewis/more athletic MPJ and not a homeless man's Tracy McGrady. Putting a Tre-Sochan on the wings leaves you a lot deficient in size and with Wemby's already skinny frame is going to run you into some problems against more physical and athletic teams. Ace theoretically gives you high volume shooting in addition to athleticism and his weak side shot blocking is super useful when you play someone shorter as your other wing.

[rascal]

Spurs have a good chance to win 5 of their next 7 games.

[mystargtr34]

Murray Boyles just dominated Asa Newell.

Also had 35 a few days ago against Arkansas.

He is gonna be good but just not sold on the fit offensively.

[CGD]

It should be a good battle between your boy Queen vs Wolf tomorrow at 5:30pm CST.

Queen is Sengun but slower and even more of a defensive turnstile. Great footwork on offense though.

[RC_Drunkford]

Murray Boyles just dominated Asa Newell.

Also had 35 a few days ago against Arkansas.

He is gonna be good but just not sold on the fit offensively.

his shot is questionable, but his defense is elite and a playmaking PF you can use as a DHO hub is the kind of player type that has a great track record in this league. I'm very high on him.

[SpursBills]

In the past I talked about the synergy of functional athleticism + feel leading to maximizing physical tools and over performing .

There are indicator stats for this.
Functional athleticism - OREB%, STL%, BLK%
Feel: AST%, AST:TO, STL%

Bart query: Underclassmen, 6'6+, 2.5 STL%, 2.5 BLK%, 20 AST%, 5 OREB% since 2008:
Cooper Flagg
Ben Simmons
Collin Murray-Boyles
Ethan Happ
Kyle Anderson
Draymond Green

Ethan Happ is the only bust and he had limited athleticism and shot 46% from FT as a senior. Kyle Anderson might be the least explosive player to ever play in the NBA and his instincts and wingspan allowed him to carve out a career where he's top 5 in his draft class in VORP and top 10 in total win shares.

If I drop the AST% filter to 15, I add Zion, Josh Jackson (headcase), Herb Jones, Otto Porter, and Sorber (very underrated pre-injury, now questionable due to foot injury)

It's not a perfect filter/query, but it is one that has a high hit rate for versatile high-feel defenders and well-rounded players

[mystargtr34]

his shot is questionable, but his defense is elite and a playmaking PF you can use as a DHO hub is the kind of player type that has a great track record in this league. I'm very high on him.

Yeah I’ve been pretty high on him for most of this season. Agree his defense is going to be good and I do like his post play and playmaking. Playing next to a floor spacing big man like Wemby would help him big time.

Outside of Cooper Flagg, CMB and Rasheer are the only two 4’s i get excited about in the first round. Hopefully the Spurs can get one of them.

[mystargtr34]

In the past I talked about the synergy of functional athleticism + feel leading to maximizing physical tools and over performing .

There are indicator stats for this.
Functional athleticism - OREB%, STL%, BLK%
Feel: AST%, AST:TO, STL%

Bart query: Underclassmen, 6'6+, 2.5 STL%, 2.5 BLK%, 20 AST%, 5 OREB% since 2008:
Cooper Flagg
Ben Simmons
Collin Murray-Boyles
Ethan Happ
Kyle Anderson
Draymond Green

Ethan Happ is the only bust and he had limited athleticism and shot 46% from FT as a senior. Kyle Anderson might be the least explosive player to ever play in the NBA and his instincts and wingspan allowed him to carve out a career where he's top 5 in his draft class in VORP and top 10 in total win shares.

If I drop the AST% filter to 15, I add Zion, Josh Jackson (headcase), Herb Jones, Otto Porter, and Sorber (very underrated pre-injury, now questionable due to foot injury)

It's not a perfect filter/query, but it is one that has a high hit rate for versatile high-feel defenders and well-rounded players

Good stuff 👍🏻

[Mal]

In the past I talked about the synergy of functional athleticism + feel leading to maximizing physical tools and over performing .

There are indicator stats for this.
Functional athleticism - OREB%, STL%, BLK%
Feel: AST%, AST:TO, STL%

Bart query: Underclassmen, 6'6+, 2.5 STL%, 2.5 BLK%, 20 AST%, 5 OREB% since 2008:
Cooper Flagg
Ben Simmons
Collin Murray-Boyles
Ethan Happ
Kyle Anderson
Draymond Green

Ethan Happ is the only bust and he had limited athleticism and shot 46% from FT as a senior. Kyle Anderson might be the least explosive player to ever play in the NBA and his instincts and wingspan allowed him to carve out a career where he's top 5 in his draft class in VORP and top 10 in total win shares.

If I drop the AST% filter to 15, I add Zion, Josh Jackson (headcase), Herb Jones, Otto Porter, and Sorber (very underrated pre-injury, now questionable due to foot injury)

It's not a perfect filter/query, but it is one that has a high hit rate for versatile high-feel defenders and well-rounded players

That is nice floor for Flagg. Green, Simmons made career in NBA without shooting based on those instincts. Happ is very good in ACB, still cant shoot. Anderson has - unique - athletism.

But Flagg can shoot.

[SpursBills]

That is nice floor for Flagg. Green, Simmons made career in NBA without shooting based on those instincts. Happ is very good in ACB, still cant shoot. Anderson has - unique - athletism.

But Flagg can shoot.

Flagg gets an even bigger bump because he can shoot well, he's a high level run and jump athlete, and he's about 1.5 years (or more) younger than everybody else on this list. He gets slightly dinged because ACC competition is trash this year and his numbers do drop significantly against top 100/top 50 competition. Still, top 5 prospect in the last 15 years.

CMB's age 18 freshman season just misses the first cut as well (18 AST%).

[cd98]

Spurs and Hawks going to play right out of top 3 draft position.

[John B]

Nice game between Queen vs Wolf at Fox right now.

[John B]

Starting to like this Goldin guy, can be real good backup C.

[mystargtr34]

With the Spurs second round pick currently projected at 39 there should be quite a few decent options for a backup C to compete with Biyombo next year. Not sure what Bassey status is with his injuries.

Kalkbrenner
Vlad Goldin
Ivisic twins (Tom looks better imo)
Berringer
Grunloh
Raynaud

[scott]

With the Spurs second round pick currently projected at 39 there should be quite a few decent options for a backup C to compete with Biyombo next year. Not sure what Bassey status is with his injuries.

Kalkbrenner
Vlad Goldin
Ivisic twins (Tom looks better imo)
Berringer
Grunloh
Raynaud

Unless Prince Charles comes back and looks like prime Shaq over the last 20 or so games... I'm fully prepared that this may be the end of his NBA journey :(

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKplheM7vns

[SpursBills]

With the Spurs second round pick currently projected at 39 there should be quite a few decent options for a backup C to compete with Biyombo next year. Not sure what Bassey status is with his injuries.

Kalkbrenner
Vlad Goldin
Ivisic twins (Tom looks better imo)
Berringer
Grunloh
Raynaud

Absolutely no to Zvonomir Ivisic - I don't think he's an NBA player. Don't know much about the other guys, but Beringer easily looks like the most fluid athlete of all of them. I think Givony mocked him to the Spurs in the lottery though, which is pretty weird.

[cutewizard]

what a pass man!!! hahahahahah

the back up point guard of the future..........!!!!!

[cutewizard]

much improved shooting

devastating pin point passing

bring him NOW!!!!!!!!

[spurraider21]

he's averaging 5ppg and making 25% of his 3's

you posted highlights of a game from 5 months ago where he scored 5 points on 2-7 shooting

[rascal]

he's averaging 5ppg and making 25% of his 3's

you posted highlights of a game from 5 months ago where he scored 5 points on 2-7 shooting

Yeah, his stas look bad. Spurs need shooters not more sub.300 shooters.

[TD 21]

With the Spurs second round pick currently projected at 39 there should be quite a few decent options for a backup C to compete with Biyombo next year. Not sure what Bassey status is with his injuries.

Kalkbrenner
Vlad Goldin
Ivisic twins (Tom looks better imo)
Berringer
Grunloh
Raynaud

There isn't going to be a next year for Biyombo. He's clearly strictly a stopgap.

I think there's a fairly good chance they select a C with one of their three picks and trade for or sign a veteran C to serve as the primary backup.

[cutewizard]

Ok my apologies, should have reviewed that more

sorry guys

[cutewizard]

im desperate for new blood for us,

[scott]

Don't let the haters get you down, cutewizard. You keep being you.

[Mr. Body]

The top non-Flagg guys I'm fixated on are Tre and VJ. Really hope we can manage moving up, and I'd trade both picks to move up a few spots. Johnson is ripping up good SEC defenses on a lousy Texas team and showing more to his game (passing, effort on defense) than pure scoring. Edgecombe I think is the hidden star in this draft.

I need to watch more Harper. He has terrific skills. A sad state of affairs that four of the top six picks may not even make the NCAA Tournament.

Flagg
Harper
Edgecombe
Johnson
Bailey
Kasparas

Bailey is a massive question mark to me and I wouldn't be thrilled to have him if another of these players is available. Questionable BBIQ, etc. Jakucionas has dropped a bit for me, but I don't know who I'd put over him. Skilled, good on pick-and-rolls, good shooter, but not great defense and can't break anybody down with his dribble.

After these, I see some players starting to sneak up the boards. Probably see the Newells, CMBs, Fears, Maluachs, in that range. I'd be disappointed with a McNeely or Kneuppel but that's who we may get.

[Vienna]

in the last weeks Asa Newell became my favourite outside the top 4. Tre would give Spurs much needed shooting, but I believe in the upside of Asa.
he would form an interesting pairing with Wemby, with enormous defensive upside. and I like his motor, it's likely not a bad idea to have an athletic player next to Wemby, who could play 4 and 5 and who seems to never run out of gas. this would help to keep Wemby fresh till the end of games. the shooting looks ok, better than Sochan, and he showed some improvement in that department.

regarding shooting and the 2nd round pick..... Tyrese Proctor is quietly playing a good season in the shadow of Flagg. good shooting and good defense. might fit well behind Fox and Castle in the back court. there is no future for Branham and most likely Wesley anyway.

[rankingtear]

Fun fact all lottery picks from NCAA are from top 10 AP ranked teams. 4 out of 4. So that leaves only Duke prospects.

[CGD]

Fun fact all lottery picks from NCAA are from top 10 AP ranked teams. 4 out of 4. So that leaves only Duke prospects.

Rutgers is a top 10 team?

[SpursBills]

The three things that would piss me off the most in this draft, in order:

1. Houston gets Flagg
2. Houston gets VJ/Harper
3. OKC gets CMB

[cutewizard]

Don't let the haters get you down, cutewizard (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=19861). You keep being you.

.........

Good Sir, thank you very much

May I ask if you are in academia, your writings are good enough for peer-reviewed journal articles

[cutewizard]

https://youtu.be/YWVLQZbGea8?si=fHGyeE2exmutr87e

[scott]

.........

Good Sir, thank you very much

May I ask if you are in academia, your writings are good enough for peer-reviewed journal articles

I used to be, thank you for the compliment.

[John B]

https://youtu.be/YWVLQZbGea8?si=fHGyeE2exmutr87e

He doesn’t really have self-creation, no passing, no jump shot. Majority of his shots are finishing around the rim.

[ginobilized]

I can see us using ATL's (likely later) pick on Fleming.
What I cannot figure out is who to grab in the 5-14 range. No one is really ticking the boxes for me yet.

[rankingtear]

Rutgers is a top 10 team?

Spurs picks.

[djohn2oo8]

The three things that would piss me off the most in this draft, in order:

1. Houston gets Flagg
2. Houston gets VJ/Harper
3. OKC gets CMB
:lol I could see that being Phoenix’s misfortune

[Mal]

Rutgers is a top 10 team?

Why Rutgers is that bad ? Having two top freshmens, should get you at least NCCA tourney bid

[mo7888]

My current board going into March Madness:

1. Cooper Flagg
2. V.J. Edgecombe
3. Ace Bailey
4. Dylan Harper
5. Kasparas Jackucionis
6. Liam McNeely
7. Jon Knueppel
8. Tre Johnson
9. Sergio De Larrea
10. Rasheer Fleming
11. Egor Demin
12. Shaman Maluach
13. Asa Newell
14. Noa Essengue
15. Jase Richardson
16. Ben Saraf
17. Will Riley
18. Nolan Traore
19. Collins Murray-Boyles
20. Carter Bryant
21. Danny Wolf
22. Tyrese Proctor
23. Derick Queen
24. Johni Broome
25. Alex Karaban
26. Dink Pate
27. Ryan Kalkbrenner
28. Jeremiah Fears
29. Boogie Fland
30. Ian Jackson

[BackHome]

My current board going into March Madness:

1. Cooper Flagg
2. V.J. Edgecombe
3. Ace Bailey
4. Dylan Harper
5. Kasparas Jackucionis
6. Liam McNeely
7. Jon Knueppel
8. Tre Johnson
9. Sergio De Larrea
10. Rasheer Fleming
11. Egor Demin
12. Shaman Maluach
13. Asa Newell
14. Noa Essengue
15. Jase Richardson
16. Ben Saraf
17. Will Riley
18. Nolan Traore
19. Collins Murray-Boyles
20. Carter Bryant
21. Danny Wolf
22. Tyrese Proctor
23. Derick Queen
24. Johni Broome
25. Alex Karaban
26. Dink Pate
27. Ryan Kalkbrenner
28. Jeremiah Fears
29. Boogie Fland
30. Ian Jackson

Players I would like to draft

[Mr. Body]

Why Rutgers is that bad ? Having two top freshmens, should get you at least NCCA tourney bid

Bad coach, bad players.

Ben Simmons was easily first overall his year and didn't get LSU into the tournament.

[Mal]

Cooper Flagg is the real deal.

[baseline bum]

My current board going into March Madness:

1. Cooper Flagg
2. V.J. Edgecombe
3. Ace Bailey
4. Dylan Harper
5. Kasparas Jackucionis
6. Liam McNeely
7. Jon Knueppel
8. Tre Johnson
9. Sergio De Larrea
10. Rasheer Fleming
11. Egor Demin
12. Shaman Maluach
13. Asa Newell
14. Noa Essengue
15. Jase Richardson
16. Ben Saraf
17. Will Riley
18. Nolan Traore
19. Collins Murray-Boyles
20. Carter Bryant
21. Danny Wolf
22. Tyrese Proctor
23. Derick Queen
24. Johni Broome
25. Alex Karaban
26. Dink Pate
27. Ryan Kalkbrenner
28. Jeremiah Fears
29. Boogie Fland
30. Ian Jackson

Is that your overall board or your board for what order you'd like the Spurs to pick?

[mo7888]

Is that your overall board or your board for what order you'd like the Spurs to pick?

That's just for the Spurs.. If it was league wide I'd have Harper over Bailey as an example... they are both very talented and Bailey has more question marks, but the fit here favors Bailey..

[baseline bum]

That's just for the Spurs.. If it was league wide I'd have Harper over Bailey as an example... they are both very talented and Bailey has more question marks, but the fit here favors Bailey..

Yeah if the Spurs get the #2 pick I'm definitely trading down as much as I love Harper given the potential Castle is showing plus having Fox in his prime.

[mo7888]

Yeah if the Spurs get the #2 pick I'm definitely trading down as much as I love Harper given the potential Castle is showing plus having Fox in his prime.

Exactly

[scott]

That's just for the Spurs.. If it was league wide I'd have Harper over Bailey as an example... they are both very talented and Bailey has more question marks, but the fit here favors Bailey..

I’m not sure if he’ll even come out, but I’d have Drake Powell in that Top 30 for the Spurs (just my own opinion)

[SpursBills]

Making a list of guys drafted in the last 10 years with first 20 picks who were primarily known as wing shooters and not much else. Did I miss anyone? Trying to see something.

So far I have:
Dalton Knecht
Jett Howard
Gradey Dick
Jordan Hawkins
Corey Kispert
Trey Murphy III
Cam Johnson
MPJ
Kevin Huerter
Lauri Markannen
Luke Kennard
Malik Beasley

[exstatic]

That's just for the Spurs.. If it was league wide I'd have Harper over Bailey as an example... they are both very talented and Bailey has more question marks, but the fit here favors Bailey..

I don’t see a Bailey being a Spurs type, based on his game. His asst/TO ratio is a fraction, and that’s a bad archetype overall. Kind screams black hole, and his other numbers don’t say NBA primary scorer. My .02, as always.

[exstatic]

Making a list of guys drafted in the last 10 years with first 20 picks who were primarily known as wing shooters and not much else. Did I miss anyone? Trying to see something.

So far I have:
Dalton Knecht
Jett Howard
Gradey Dick
Jordan Hawkins
Corey Kispert
Trey Murphy III
Cam Johnson
MPJ
Kevin Huerter
Lauri Markannen
Luke Kennard
Malik Beasley

Chris Duarte

[SpursBills]

Chris Duarte

Thanks. Follow up question open to everyone -

How many guys on that list are you taking over Nickeil Alexander-Walker for this team (this year shooting 39.5% on 3s, 3.5 3PM/100 possessions), if you assume their current salaries and assume NAW is getting mid-level money this offseason?

[scott]

Thanks. Follow up question open to everyone -

How many guys on that list are you taking over Nickeil Alexander-Walker for this team (this year shooting 39.5% on 3s, 3.5 3PM/100 possessions), if you assume their current salaries and assume NAW is getting mid-level money this offseason?

Interesting question - assuming NAW gets an MLE deal this offseason, the only two guys on the list I'm taking over him are TMIII (on his deal) and Dick (on his rookie deal). Cam Johnson is the other one who comes close (based on his contract and role on this team, I'm actually not a huge Cam fan).

Lauri is a better player but I'd rather have NAW at the MLE than Lauri on a max.

[SpursBills]

Interesting question - assuming NAW gets an MLE deal this offseason, the only two guys on the list I'm taking over him are TMIII (on his deal) and Dick (on his rookie deal). Cam Johnson is the other one who comes close (based on his contract and role on this team, I'm actually not a huge Cam fan).

Lauri is a better player but I'd rather have NAW at the MLE than Lauri on a max.

Thanks. There's actually a "don't waste a top 10 pick on McNeeley/Kon and you should just sign/trade for shooting if that's a team need" hit piece lurking in there somewhere, I just haven't quite fleshed out the argument yet.

[SpursBills]

Age
Height
Wingspan
USG
STL%
BLK%
3PT%
FT%
SOS (Kenpom)


Rasheer Fleming
20.95
6'9
7'4
20.6
2.7
5
0.418
0.725
+0.47 (#137)


Taurean Prince (Jr)
20.82
6'7.75
6'11.5
26.1
3.5
3.9
0.401
0.643
+10.2 (#13)


Keegan Murray (Fr)
20.82
6'8
7'
18
2.4
7.2
0.296
0.755
+16.4 (#20)


Keegan Murray (So)
21.82
6'8
7'
28.1
2.3
6.4
0.398
0.747
+7.3 (#61)


Tari Eason
21.11
6'8
7'2"
30.8
4.6
6.5
0.36
0.803
+9.1 (#26)



Best comps that I can currently come up with for Rasheer Fleming right now. Big wings who can defend and can hit the 3, but don't have much self-creation potential. Fleming's got an easier pathway to success given his wingspan / physical tools. but he's really playing against trash competition and his numbers should honestly be better than they are considering how much more physically dominant he is than everyone he's playing against. Tari Eason seems a little too optimistic, but I think Keegan Murray may a realistic outcome here if he develops well, which would be a valuable piece for this team. Taurean Prince is probably more like his floor.

[exstatic]

Thanks. There's actually a "don't waste a top 10 pick on McNeeley/Kon and you should just sign/trade for shooting if that's a team need" hit piece lurking in there somewhere, I just haven't quite fleshed out the argument yet.

We need more than one shooter, and if the team is successful, NAW may turn into the new KCP, the guy that gets poached to finish out your championship rotation.

[mo7888]

I’m not sure if he’ll even come out, but I’d have Drake Powell in that Top 30 for the Spurs (just my own opinion)

I had Powell around 25, I believe, earlier in the season. The more I watch him though, the less I see him translate. I certainly could be wrong though.

[onechance87]

both fleming and mcneeley had bad games yesterday.

[mo7888]

I don’t see a Bailey being a Spurs type, based on his game. His asst/TO ratio is a fraction, and that’s a bad archetype overall. Kind screams black hole, and his other numbers don’t say NBA primary scorer. My .02, as always.

If you're looking at his numbers now, then you make a valid argument. My position is two-fold regarding Ace. 1) I don't think he is being coached in a way that accentuates his game (he's allowed to let poor natural tendencies dominate his game), and 2) I expect him to be developed here in a way that helps his talent be utilized in a way that accentuates Wemby and is beneficial to Ace. He's got all the talent needed, it just has to be streamlined and honed into something that can be very valuable.

That's my opinion at least..

[exstatic]

If you're looking at his numbers now, then you make a valid argument. My position is two-fold regarding Ace. 1) I don't think he is being coached in a way that accentuates his game (he's allowed to let poor natural tendencies dominate his game), and 2) I expect him to be developed here in a way that helps his talent be utilized in a way that accentuates Wemby and is beneficial to Ace. He's got all the talent needed, it just has to be streamlined and honed into something that can be very valuable.

That's my opinion at least..

:tu We’re all entitled to our opinions. For example, I think those poor natural tendencies of Bailey will always manifest under pressure, no matter who coaches him. Old saying: you are who you are under pressure.

[Dejounte]

If you're looking at his numbers now, then you make a valid argument. My position is two-fold regarding Ace. 1) I don't think he is being coached in a way that accentuates his game (he's allowed to let poor natural tendencies dominate his game), and 2) I expect him to be developed here in a way that helps his talent be utilized in a way that accentuates Wemby and is beneficial to Ace. He's got all the talent needed, it just has to be streamlined and honed into something that can be very valuable.

That's my opinion at least..

You can say this about any poor performing player in college.

[mo7888]

:tu We’re all entitled to our opinions. For example, I think those poor natural tendencies of Bailey will always manifest under pressure, no matter who coaches him. Old saying: you are who you are under pressure.

I know you do. That's always been a difference in our personal perspectives. You see analytics as being close to an ironclad forecast of what a guy will ultimately be. I see it as one of many tools and compare it to other attributes to make forecast. I don't think a players future is determined by that alone. It's just different perspectives...

[mo7888]

You can say this about any poor performing player in college.

I could, but I don't. Why? What's the difference? In this case, it's talent + coachability. I don't see many players with this kind of talent to work with and I don't see Ace as some uncoachable kid who's refusing to be coached. That differentiates him from just 'any poorly performing player' in college.

[exstatic]

To be clear, I don’t put too much weight on basic counting stats for college guys, but I do look at a few second level things like Asst/TO.

[mo7888]

To be clear, I don’t put too much weight on basic counting stats for college guys, but I do look at a few second level things like Asst/TO.

Fair enough..

[SpursBills]

I know you do. That's always been a difference in our personal perspectives. You see analytics as being close to an ironclad forecast of what a guy will ultimately be. I see it as one of many tools and compare it to other attributes to make forecast. I don't think a players future is determined by that alone. It's just different perspectives...

To be fair, anyone who relies purely on analytics would not have had Castle anywhere near top 5 last year

[Dejounte]

both fleming and mcneeley had bad games yesterday.

as did fears (2-14 fg) and tre johnson (0-14). Mamba mentality

[Teamduncan21]

To be fair, anyone who relies purely on analytics would not have had Castle anywhere near top 5 last year

I recall they said Sheppard has a really good advanced stats

[pad300]

Age
Height
Wingspan
USG
STL%
BLK%
3PT%
FT%
SOS (Kenpom)


Rasheer Fleming
20.95
6'9
7'4
20.6
2.7
5
0.418
0.725
+0.47 (#137)


Taurean Prince (Jr)
20.82
6'7.75
6'11.5
26.1
3.5
3.9
0.401
0.643
+10.2 (#13)


Keegan Murray (Fr)
20.82
6'8
7'
18
2.4
7.2
0.296
0.755
+16.4 (#20)


Keegan Murray (So)
21.82
6'8
7'
28.1
2.3
6.4
0.398
0.747
+7.3 (#61)


Tari Eason
21.11
6'8
7'2"
30.8
4.6
6.5
0.36
0.803
+9.1 (#26)



Best comps that I can currently come up with for Rasheer Fleming right now. Big wings who can defend and can hit the 3, but don't have much self-creation potential. Fleming's got an easier pathway to success given his wingspan / physical tools. but he's really playing against trash competition and his numbers should honestly be better than they are considering how much more physically dominant he is than everyone he's playing against. Tari Eason seems a little too optimistic, but I think Keegan Murray may a realistic outcome here if he develops well, which would be a valuable piece for this team. Taurean Prince is probably more like his floor.

The problem with this as a comp, is that you're comparing him to a bunch of NBA wings. Rasheer may be a big in the NBA; he's pretty stiff moving on the perimeter...

[Dejounte]

The problem with this as a comp, is that you're comparing him to a bunch of NBA wings. Rasheer may be a big in the NBA; he's pretty stiff moving on the perimeter...

He’s nowhere near as stiff as you claim tbh

[SpursBills]

I recall they said Sheppard has a really good advanced stats

yes, advanced stats were the reason why a lot of ppl, myself included, had Sheppard either very high. But if you’re relying exclusively on advanced stats, you’re not taking Castle very high at all, you probably would have taken Edey or clingan.

[Guru of Nothing]

Michigan at Michigan St. coming up in an hour. Plot twist: My main interstest will be Jase Richardson, not Danny Wolf. Richardson has mostly avoided my radar because he's a 6'3" combo guard, which does not make a lot of sense in terms of team needs, but the formula suddenly changes if Vassell gets traded.

It's easy to compare him to Fox because he's a lefty and about the same size, and has a similar game around the basket; just a little slower than Fox (most are), but with a better 3-point shot. Currently projected as a mid-first, but could easily boost his stock over the next month.

Tankathon profile: https://www.tankathon.com/players/jase-richardson

Some recent highlights for those who have not checked him out. If his three-point falls in the NBA, he could crack the rotation with ease.

Biw-gpBpenY

[SpursBills]

Michigan at Michigan St. coming up in an hour. Plot twist: My main interstest will be Jase Richardson, not Danny Wolf. Richardson has mostly avoided my radar because he's a 6'3" combo guard, which does not make a lot of sense in terms of team needs, but the formula suddenly changes if Vassell gets traded.

It's easy to compare him to Fox because he's a lefty and about the same size, and has a similar game around the basket; just a little slower than Fox (most are), but with a better 3-point shot. Currently projected as a mid-first, but could easily boost his stock over the next month.

Tankathon profile: https://www.tankathon.com/players/jase-richardson

Some recent highlights for those who have not checked him out. If his three-point falls in the NBA, he could crack the rotation with ease.

Biw-gpBpenY

Sheppard/McCain type guy without Sheppard’s hands or McCain’s functional strength tbh. Needs some stuff to go right for him to hit high end outcomes, but high processing and shooting makes him a nice bet as a third guard right now and possibly as a fox replacement long term who generates gravity by shooting rather than driving. If that Atlanta pick lands mid first like 15-18, I’m interested for sure

[spurraider21]

I’m still far from having strong opinions on the draft (i don’t really watch college ball with any regularity, i just study up during draft season)… but I’m really warming on Fleming

[John B]

Sheppard/McCain type guy without Sheppard’s hands or McCain’s functional strength tbh. Needs some stuff to go right for him to hit high end outcomes, but high processing and shooting makes him a nice bet as a third guard right now and possibly as a fox replacement long term who generates gravity by shooting rather than driving. If that Atlanta pick lands mid first like 15-18, I’m interested for sure

Thanks for the reminder. Still like Wolf

[rascal]

Sheppard/McCain type guy without Sheppard’s hands or McCain’s functional strength tbh. Needs some stuff to go right for him to hit high end outcomes, but high processing and shooting makes him a nice bet as a third guard right now and possibly as a fox replacement long term who generates gravity by shooting rather than driving. If that Atlanta pick lands mid first like 15-18, I’m interested for sure

That pick going from a top 10 or a top 4 with some luck to Jase Richardson. Not looking good.

Spurs likely to unload it in a trade like they did with the Toronto pick. Spurs might be coming out of this draft with just McNeely.

[Mr. Body]

Epic bad joint shooting between Johnson and Fears last night.

I'm out on Fears. We already have a tiny chucker who doesn't do much else in Fox.

Texas' coaching is so bad. They'll bog down then give the ball to Tre to do something without any actions. He doesn't have the shake or handles to break defenses down that are keyed in on him. I do like that he's finding ways to contribute with rebounds and assists. I don't like him as a first option, but he's far better than a McNeely as an offensive threat.

[LeBowen]

We already have a tiny chucker who doesn't do much else in Fox.

Does spewing nonsense and posting shit that's straight up wrong make you feel better?

[SpursBills]

That pick going from a top 10 or a top 4 with some luck to Jase Richardson. Not looking good.

Spurs likely to unload it in a trade like they did with the Toronto pick. Spurs might be coming out of this draft with just McNeely.

What is your plan personally if the spurs picks end up at 9 and 16?

[SpursBills]

We need more than one shooter, and if the team is successful, NAW may turn into the new KCP, the guy that gets poached to finish out your championship rotation.

Don’t disagree with any of that, it’s more about the utility of drafting shooting only types who have weak defense and can’t self-create, vs betting on guys who can self create in a similar draft slot or defend in later draft slots with a weaker shooting signal. Also about the ability to sign shooting specialists or acquire them via trade

[Mr. Body]

Does spewing nonsense and posting shit that's straight up wrong make you feel better?

Let me know whenever that happens.

[exstatic]

Let me know whenever that happens.

He did.

[exstatic]

Don’t disagree with any of that, it’s more about the utility of drafting shooting only types who have weak defense and can’t self-create, vs betting on guys who can self create in a similar draft slot or defend in later draft slots with a weaker shooting signal. Also about the ability to sign shooting specialists or acquire them via trade

The problem with signing and trading for guys is that you’re never going to get them as cheaply as even a top 10 pick. The best bet is probably a mixture of draftees and signees
.

[Mr. Body]

He did.

Nah.

But whatever. We already have a tiny chucker who doesn't do much else and don't need Fears. That's not really debatable.

[LeBowen]

Nah.

But whatever. We already have a tiny chucker who doesn't do much else and don't need Fears. That's not really debatable.

Oh, shut the fuck up you pathological liar.
Fox can't be tiny because he's got above average size for a point guard, anyone who actually watches games sees it.

He also can't be someone who's "not doing much else" because he's averaging 6.7 assists and just 2.4 turnovers.
Joined mid-season during a road trip, had no knowledge of the system and played with just one new teammate before.
All that while playing out of position because CP3 has to start and be the primary playmaker.

Also averaging 1.7 steals.

All the shit you spew is objectively wrong, it's not even up for debate.
You're just a retard who wants to be edgy for the sake of it, then when 99% of the forum exposes you and proves you wrong you disappear for a bit, only to reappear after a while and just continue with a new awful take because you obviously have some kind of condition and I really shouldn't be engaging with a person who has serious mental issues.

Does your brain really think there's actually a possibility of you being right and everyone else being wrong for any of your takes? Are you that arrogant?

[John B]

Michigan senior center Goldin with 29 pts of 9-12 shooting on a losing effort. 7’1 250 big but 24 yrs old at the day of the draft. Very good post player, can hit the 3. Can be a good 2nd round backup big.

[Uriel]

I feel very strongly we should come away with Khaman Maluach in this draft. First of all, backup C is a pressing need for us. Second, Maluach is the best center prospect in this draft and is right around our draft range.

It’s a match made in heaven.