2025 NBA Draft

[Dejounte]

There should be a baseline of expectations from any prospect under consideration for the Spurs, and I think we can use the current roster to gauge that.

i think if 10-20 is where we expect at least one selection to be had. Normally this is where you find role players.

I think the bare minimum should be is that they reach Tre Jones or Champagnie’s level, which is ironic because they were 2nd round pick and undrafted respectively.

Meanwhile, branham and wesley are looking like a tier below those two, and they were selected 20 and 29.

The takeaway here should be that it’s no guarantee that these picks we have will be rotational players, and the players we think who are outside looking in shouldn’t be utterly dismissed from the spurs future. Minix, ingram, duke, cissoko, and any two way guys we plan to have on the roster every year all have a shot at being part of the spurs future no matter how many picks we have in our treasure chest.

[jesterbobman]

Good point.

I hope the Spurs change their drafting philosophy a bit (I still think youth should factor in quite strongly) more towards production over high risk swings on youth. Samanic, Primo, Blake and Malaki (and, to be fair, Parker and Dejounte in the past), were all swings on youth with moments that they thought could become something more, though the stats profile / projections on all of them were weak. That's fine whenever you're star hunting, but we definitely have the guy (s), so a bit of a shift towards young production would be good.

[Mr. Body]

Good point.

I hope the Spurs change their drafting philosophy a bit (I still think youth should factor in quite strongly) more towards production over high risk swings on youth. Samanic, Primo, Blake and Malaki (and, to be fair, Parker and Dejounte in the past), were all swings on youth with moments that they thought could become something more, though the stats profile / projections on all of them were weak. That's fine whenever you're star hunting, but we definitely have the guy (s), so a bit of a shift towards young production would be good.

The draft philosophy will be fun to see. As good as CP and Barnes have been, they won't be here forever and their impact will need to be replaced.

The thing about the 2022 draft was that it really got pretty bad pretty quickly. At #20, where Branham was picked, there haven't been a lot of players with much impact. Definitely misses on Walker Kessler and possibly players like Andrew Nembhard and Jaden Hardy, but even those two aren't huge losses. It's hard to say who they missed out on.

I'm less optimistic about Blake and Malaki than I was, but they still seem like NBA players, if maybe never really rotation players and possibly not for the Spurs. IMO the team did pretty well given the talent that was still there at the time.

This 2025 draft will be an interesting case of needing to fit certain types of players while matching team philosophy and chemistry. Then, as we lose our two great vets, somehow replacing them or hoping the existing players can take over.

[Dejounte]

Players immediately grabbing my attention because they look like they just know how to play: Hugo Gonzalez, Kasparas, Egor. Guys whom the ST racists will instantly pile on and also will have John B proclaiming them as the next Manu the minute they’re drafted by the Spurs.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKwMZW8cyWk

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtWOBxFhBlY

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGRCt9SQYdI

[cutewizard]

https://247sports.com/player/mackenzie-mgbako-46109285/

Mackenzie Mgbako is a 6-8, 210-pound Power Forward from Gladstone, NJ.

His shot-making from behind the arc is his best asset. He can also make the types of shots that translate to the next level - pick-and-pop threes, slipping out of ball screens to make shots on the move, or creating space with a series of side-step or step-back shots. The mid-post has long been a staple of his individual offense, but now he’s getting some easy points by moving without the ball more freely. Physically, Mgbako appears to be in the best shape of his career to date and was also productive enough on the glass to hold his own at the four. His swing skills are his defensive versatility and shot-creation abilities, both of which are rooted in his mobility, footspeed, and ability to play low to the ground when necessary. If those two areas develop, both his versatility and overall projection will go to new levels.

-------------------------------------------------------

GUys, what do you think of Mackenzie Mgbako ??

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arLrS-__jes

[cutewizard]

He is a good shooter,.................I want him for our Spurs, ......im going to check out him and Egor Demin every now and then......


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tgi-MO-M44I



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeDEJ5OcIsw

[onechance87]

https://247sports.com/player/mackenzie-mgbako-46109285/

Mackenzie Mgbako is a 6-8, 210-pound Power Forward from Gladstone, NJ.

His shot-making from behind the arc is his best asset. He can also make the types of shots that translate to the next level - pick-and-pop threes, slipping out of ball screens to make shots on the move, or creating space with a series of side-step or step-back shots. The mid-post has long been a staple of his individual offense, but now he’s getting some easy points by moving without the ball more freely. Physically, Mgbako appears to be in the best shape of his career to date and was also productive enough on the glass to hold his own at the four. His swing skills are his defensive versatility and shot-creation abilities, both of which are rooted in his mobility, footspeed, and ability to play low to the ground when necessary. If those two areas develop, both his versatility and overall projection will go to new levels.

-------------------------------------------------------

GUys, what do you think of Mackenzie Mgbako ??

can maybe be our naz reid....Dont mind taking him late first round or early second round.Alot of young freshmen pf
doing very well.Will see who continues to be consistent.

[cutewizard]

can maybe be our naz reid....Dont mind taking him late first round or early second round.Alot of young freshmen pf
doing very well.Will see who continues to be consistent.

Thanks Man.....

Hope he continues his development....that shooting form is good....

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I am really starting to like Adou Thiero at Arkansas, and think he would be the perfect piece to add to the Spurs core. I would not be surprised if he ends up being a top 10 pick in this draft, but given his age and the strength of the rest of the class, I think he'll probably end up going in the 10-15 range. So, Thiero is a third year player who spent two years at Kentucky and then followed Calipari to Arkansas. Originally recruited as a true PG, Thiero has had a huge growth spurt in college and now is officially listed at 6'8". He also added some 35 lbs to his frame between his freshman and sophomore season at Kentucky, and as of now looks like he's probably 6'7.5 w/o shoes and around 230. Big time competitor and hard working kid, he contributes in all facets of the game, and is putting up big numbers on insane efficiency. Lock down defender who stuffs the stat sheet on defensive and offensive. I would put him in the upper tier of all draft eligible players in last year's draft (2024). Explosive above the rim finisher with excellent lateral and straight line finisher. Potential to be a good shooter is there, but this is essentially his first year getting big minutes so we'll have to wait to get more data as the year progresses. Most importantly, he has consistently drawn praise for his competitiveness, motor, and drive and Calipari has been signing his praises so far -- even calling him a lottery pick.

Highlights

Vs. #8 Baylor

https://youtu.be/VVu5Z4gSNbQ?si=0zVM752oclNccBte

Vs. Little Rock Trojans

https://youtu.be/q0yt0jDyXBQ?si=h34I5_5TH3A1bjFn


2023-2024 Pre-Season Draft Evaluation (UK) -- Sophomore Year


https://youtu.be/0j-gYDi173A?si=iOGdjNIrlgdGBjJN

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I also see Johni Broome rising up some draft boards. As far as play style, he definitely has a throwback game that is heavy on low post fundamentals, footwork and timing. This is not a direct player comparison, but his game reminds me of mid-career Tim Duncan's play style . I'm not sure if Broome has the lateral quickness, length and/or functional athleticism of Timmy (who was the archetype for most bigs during his era of the NBA) but his analytics and efficiency stats are really really good.

That said, I don't watch a lot of Auburn -- is there anyone out there that has seen Broome play? Curious what others feel about his physical profile


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f38HtULBLk8&t=285s

[SpursBills]

If he stays anonymous, use an early second on JoJo Tugler out of Houston. I thought he was decent as a freshman last year for Houston but this year he's been even better. Don't care that he can't shoot yet, his defensive impact is elite. 6'8" with a 7'6" wingspan and I don't think he's on a majority of draft boards. 25th percentile outcome is probably Xavier Tillman (currently 12th in VORP in his draft class right behind...Devin Vassell) but can be way more if developed properly.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Will Riley’s my guy. Semi realistic, depending on where our picks land.

[heyheymymy]

Damn our friend scott is getting a instant classic in Maui

4-0 MEM vs #2 4-0 UCONN went into OT

game is on ESPN right now 4pm CST

[scott]

Thanks for the shoutout heyheymymy!

Just got back from the MEM v UCONN game, got to put in a few hours of work before I head back out for the UNC game. I'll be courtside for tomorrow's round 2 game (most likely featuring UNC), but today was GA. Still had a great view.

https://i.ibb.co/hWJpk8k/invitational.jpg

Some thoughts from that game, as I had a keen eye on McNeely.


Penny Hardaway and all his assistants wear Penny Hardaway Air Foamposite Ones. I found this amusing
Dan Hurley seems built for the NCAA game. The way he is into every single play, all over the refs, teaching the kids, etc... you just don't see that in the pro game. I'm not sure this dude has a whole lot of interest in being anything other than UCONNs head coach for the foreseeable future.
Both team's crowds were electric. Awesome stuff.
On to McNeely:

he hit two big threes to bring UCONN back in regulation, but honestly other than that was kind of invisible out there. On defense, has some lateral quickness that helps him be a compliant defender, but Memphis's athletes still turned the corner on him fairly easily
three point stroke looks sweet though. really nice form, gets up and down with it quickly. he had one attempt right in front of me in the first half from the corner where he did a nice pump fake, one dribble to his right, got the shot up. Wasn't a make, but it looked like good form, good activity, good rotation.
I think there are some tools there, and his length is nice, but unless he's going to be a 40%+ shooter right out of the gates, it might be a slow development path for him. It's not going to be like plugging Knecht into the NBA and watching him go. Right now, I'd say he doesn't really give you anything more than what we are getting from Champagnie, but this was only one game and the dude is still a freshman. Lots of room yet for him to grow and impress. That's just my one game thoughts. I went in hoping to really be wowed, because he's an archetype that really fits... but it was just kind of a "meh" performance. Until he hit those two 3s, he was easy to forget about.
McNeely also committed a crucial over the back call which led to a Tech (on Hurley I think? It was on the opposite end of the court) which pretty much gave Memphis the win.
TLDR version: If this was the only tape you watched of McNeely ahead of the draft, you wouldn't take him in the lottery. Thankfully for him, he'll have lots of other opportunities to shine.


For UCONN, Tarris Reed Jr. was a BEAST. Don't know that this guy translates to the NBA other than a late SRP, third string C, but in this game he was awesome
Memphis's athleticism was just too much for UCONN at times. There was a pretty decent stretch where Tyrese Hunter looked like an absolute star... and then they just wen away from him. PJ Haggerty and Colby Rogers both also have some swag. None of these guys have first round grades on them, but they each just have basketball swag. Could be an interesting flier for some team to take in the second round for a bench scorer sparkplug in the Cam Thomas like mold.
Memphis's D was smothering. UCONN overcame that with some big shots, but it was a struggle for them. Was impressed with that, because I thought the knock on Penny's team when Jalen Duren was there was that they were undisciplined. That wasn't the case with them today.


Looking forward to seeing Drake Powell and Ian Jackson for UNC tonight. Tankathon currently has them mocked at #13 and #22.

[Mr. Body]

Getting Corey Kispert vibes from McNeeley. Not a bad thing, but maybe not what we want.

[scott]

Also... watching on ESPN makes the Lahaina Civic Center look a lot more impressive than it actually is. This is a high school gym :lol

[Mr. Body]

Chicago looking to move LaVine and Vucevic in order to slide down the rankings.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bulls/2024/11/25/bulls-playing-numbers-stay-bottom-10-loaded-draft-class

I doubt they can move LaVine, Vic might even be hard. But indication of the expected desire to tank, as well they should. We'll see if the Hornets also will want to drop. At some point they may pull the plug.

[spurraider21]

Chicago looking to move LaVine and Vucevic in order to slide down the rankings.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bulls/2024/11/25/bulls-playing-numbers-stay-bottom-10-loaded-draft-class

I doubt they can move LaVine, Vic might even be hard. But indication of the expected desire to tank, as well they should. We'll see if the Hornets also will want to drop. At some point they may pull the plug.
LaVine has been playing well and hasn't missed a game this year. i dont think he'd be difficult to move because of his play,.. really just comes down to what team both has the need to make such a move and the requisite salary to make a deal work. i think the latter point is going to be as big a hurdle as the former

as every time a player is on the market, the lakers are thrown as a rumor (probably by the selling team trying to drive up interest)... you can see them being able to match salaries with Russell/Hachimura/Vanderbilt. but thats not a very interesting return for chicago and lakers draft capital is poor

orlando could get there with KCP and Cole Anthony alone... but not sure why the Bulls would care for that either

otherwise Houston could be looking to make a consolidation move. and they could even use lavine as a chip to try to trade for Booker later if those long-play rumors are true

[Mr. Body]

LaVine has been playing well and hasn't missed a game this year. i dont think he'd be difficult to move because of his play,.. really just comes down to what team both has the need to make such a move and the requisite salary to make a deal work. i think the latter point is going to be as big a hurdle as the former

as every time a player is on the market, the lakers are thrown as a rumor (probably by the selling team trying to drive up interest)... you can see them being able to match salaries with Russell/Hachimura/Vanderbilt. but thats not a very interesting return for chicago and lakers draft capital is poor

orlando could get there with KCP and Cole Anthony alone... but not sure why the Bulls would care for that either

otherwise Houston could be looking to make a consolidation move. and they could even use lavine as a chip to try to trade for Booker later if those long-play rumors are true

LaVine's salary is just so nasty, $46 million and then $49 million for the next two years. I just don't know if any team will do it, not to mention being injury prone.

[Knoxxx]

What about packaging the ATL and SAS picks to move up? Assuming that both are not lotto picks?

[CGD]

Chicago looking to move LaVine and Vucevic in order to slide down the rankings.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bulls/2024/11/25/bulls-playing-numbers-stay-bottom-10-loaded-draft-class

I doubt they can move LaVine, Vic might even be hard. But indication of the expected desire to tank, as well they should. We'll see if the Hornets also will want to drop. At some point they may pull the plug.

Not sure what Chicago thinks they’d get back for him, but I’d swap Collins and Vuc to beef up the bench. Given them back their SRP.

[Knoxxx]

https://youtu.be/SLolDaXNXcA?si=CjpcpuYhqbvnyEE3

This guy projects to Spurs at 13 latest tankathon. Nice young shooter with size at 6-8.

[scott]

Another exciting game, though UNC faired better than UCONN. I was rooting for Dayton, because UNC fans don't deserve to experience joy. A stadium full of tourists in Maui rooting for a team that 90% of them have no actual connection to. I digress...

Powell and Jackson...

Hard to evaluate either since UNC just sends them out to stand in the corners and shoot threes every now and then. Jackson seems to want to make things happen offensively more, and has a sweet stroke, but didn't come across as necessarily high IQ. Jackson was beat by his man on the defensive end repeatedly.

Powell, on the other hand, shows some flashes as a 3&D prospect with some athleticism. Active defender, good lateral movement, stayed in front of his man, was very attentive. Nice 3-point stroke for a couple of corner 3s but didn't see much else from him offensively.

Of the two, Powell seems like someone to keep an eye on whereas Jackson just seems like another chucker with a dumb haircut.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

I'm too lazy to look through the thread, but has there been any discussion of 6'10" C Derik Queen from Maryland? He's got a lot of things going against him -- draft age, lack of outside shooting, not a great shot blocker, lack of mobility, not great body type, doesn't really project to the modern game, etc. -- but he's a very productive player with a very high IQ. Next level passer.

He wasn't getting any hype early, but has moved up the board with his early play. He's a weird projection for me. Everything on paper tells me this guy can't play in the league, and then I watch him and think somebody is going to get an impact player mid to late first round.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MScbU8mRu_g

[jesterbobman]

Thanks for the shoutout heyheymymy (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=30197)!



On to McNeely:

he hit two big threes to bring UCONN back in regulation, but honestly other than that was kind of invisible out there. On defense, has some lateral quickness that helps him be a compliant defender, but Memphis's athletes still turned the corner on him fairly easily
three point stroke looks sweet though. really nice form, gets up and down with it quickly. he had one attempt right in front of me in the first half from the corner where he did a nice pump fake, one dribble to his right, got the shot up. Wasn't a make, but it looked like good form, good activity, good rotation.
I think there are some tools there, and his length is nice, but unless he's going to be a 40%+ shooter right out of the gates, it might be a slow development path for him. It's not going to be like plugging Knecht into the NBA and watching him go. Right now, I'd say he doesn't really give you anything more than what we are getting from Champagnie, but this was only one game and the dude is still a freshman. Lots of room yet for him to grow and impress. That's just my one game thoughts. I went in hoping to really be wowed, because he's an archetype that really fits... but it was just kind of a "meh" performance. Until he hit those two 3s, he was easy to forget about.
McNeely also committed a crucial over the back call which led to a Tech (on Hurley I think? It was on the opposite end of the court) which pretty much gave Memphis the win.
TLDR version: If this was the only tape you watched of McNeely ahead of the draft, you wouldn't take him in the lottery. Thankfully for him, he'll have lots of other opportunities to shine.



....

Only watching the end of the 2nd and OT (and remembering why I mostly don't watch College, 35 sec clock is so slow), this is basically my impression of McNeely. Just didn't seem to have an impact. The over the back foul was actually encouraging to me as a process - He got called, but I think it was close, and being willing to get in and attempt that is positive. Very low steal and block rates are generally a flag, but Castle had those as a stats profile, so I'm not sure how much is a UConn thing.

At the moment, from the Stats profile, and this tiny picture, I wouldn't take him in the lottery.

If he keeps being a good shooter for the whole season, and shows enough flashes of some other thing that you're confident that you can develop the overall skills, then I can understand - Champagnie is a somewhat limited player, but guys who are 6'8" and can shoot can be valuable, even when they're limited.

[SpursBills]

Getting Corey Kispert vibes from McNeeley. Not a bad thing, but maybe not what we want.

McNeeley is the guy who seems like the most obvious fit for the spurs just based on the "type" of player he is and based on team needs, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he's going to succeed. Hopefully he's more Gradey Dick than Corey Kispert if he's on the Spurs' radar. UConn this year is definitely not nearly as good as in the past.

[Mugen]

Still a ways away but I still think Noa Essengue gets drafted by the Spurs come draft night tbh.

[onechance87]

will riley would be the perfect fit.To bad hes shit at defence.A good shooting small foward or poward foward who can defend would
perfect for wemby and castle.

[heyheymymy]

Rutgers 9pm CST on TBS if you get that channel

[jesterbobman]

I know he's mocked super high, so this isn't shocking, but good god is Harper fun. So controlled on ball, dribbles with balance, has power to bump people off and go through them. Strongly left hand dominant, but not totally useless dribbling with his right, slings passes. 6'6" PGs are a good time. Totally get the Harden / Brunson Comps in terms of handedness and winning with balance / control and strength.

On the other hand, being incredibly spicy...

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=ace-bailey--kevin-knox

Ace has flashes, he's early in his career as a College player, and the flashes are incredible, but Apex athletes who struggle getting easy shots are an easy thing to miss on. Is it just that he can shoot over the top of anyone and thinks everything is a good shot for him, or is his dribbling a key limiting factor and he'll be a limited scorer? Not out at all, too early to fully judge, but definitely watch worthy.

[SpursBills]

I know he's mocked super high, so this isn't shocking, but good god is Harper fun. So controlled on ball, dribbles with balance, has power to bump people off and go through them. Strongly left hand dominant, but not totally useless dribbling with his right, slings passes. 6'6" PGs are a good time. Totally get the Harden / Brunson Comps in terms of handedness and winning with balance / control and strength.

On the other hand, being incredibly spicy...

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=ace-bailey--kevin-knox

Ace has flashes, he's early in his career as a College player, and the flashes are incredible, but Apex athletes who struggle getting easy shots are an easy thing to miss on. Is it just that he can shoot over the top of anyone and thinks everything is a good shot for him, or is his dribbling a key limiting factor and he'll be a limited scorer? Not out at all, too early to fully judge, but definitely watch worthy.

I think we have a very similar process when evaluating prospects. Agree with everything you say about Harper, he is in my opinion a better prospect than Cade Cunningham thus far in the season. Better ball handler, better rim pressure, higher odds of being a lead guard/engine.

The "athleticism + shotmaking" vs "playmaking + processing speed" argument is going to take shape in full force this season when it comes to Ace. His polar opposite this draft cycle looks like it's going to be Jakucionis out of Illinois, who's also fun as hell to watch. I look forward to an entire draft season of "unathletic white Euro" vs "chucker who can't play team basketball" takes this year - should be fun.

[Mr. Body]

I haven't liked what I've seen from Bailey so far, in small samples. Just don't like that BBIQ whatsoever. And it's not like he's new to basketball. He's a swing for a team trying to find superstars, a Washington Wizards, not a team that needs high processors to build a contender.

The Ivisic brothers are pretty interesting.

[cutewizard]

A rebounder with a shooting touch >>>>>>


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGRCt9SQYdI

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arLrS-__jes

[rascal]

I haven't liked what I've seen from Bailey so far, in small samples. Just don't like that BBIQ whatsoever. And it's not like he's new to basketball. He's a swing for a team trying to find superstars, a Washington Wizards, not a team that needs high processors to build a contender.

The Ivisic brothers are pretty interesting.

You want a backup center out of the deep 2025 draft?

[onechance87]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arLrS-__jes

hes probably gonna be there in the range we pick.Noa,mgbako or will riley.Its still early but they look decent so far

[onechance87]

You want a backup center out of the deep 2025 draft?

would consider him more power foward....Plays like naz reid imo

[onechance87]

You want a backup center out of the deep 2025 draft?

and if we keep winning and if atl keeps winning.And if we some how make the play in as well atl
we could be picking between 15 and 20.Good chance we will be getting a role player in this draft.

[SpursBills]

3 guys I will be following closely throughout the year (guys like Cooper, Harper, etc are fun to think about, but I'm assuming Spurs/ATL picks land 9-14 so there's really no point in wishing for them):

1. Noa Essengue: Sochan is mobile, agile, and slightly too small to be a PF in spite of his rebounding. The best pairing for him is probably a "big wing", like Cody Williams last year except it became clear throughout the year that Cody Williams didn't really know how to play basketball. Mgbako is a possibility except he seems like a zero defensively. Essengue is very interesting - he's tall, long, and moves like a wing. The 3 point shot is coming along already (watch clips of the Ulm game vs the Blazers), and he's very advanced for a 17 year old. Doesn't seem to have any bball IQ issues, puts up good numbers already in a pro league, requisite athleticism, French, what's not to like?

EDIT: Also, he's better than Risacher at...literally everything except taking set 3s
https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=noa-essengue--zaccharie-risacher

2. Kasparas Jakucionis: Yup, I tipped my hand. I lean more toward "playmaking + IQ" over "athleticism + shotmaking". This one is for all the Nikola Topic stans from last year. He's white, he's Euro, his passing is awesome, he's 6'5" with a 6'7" wingspan, he shoots 85%+ from FT, he's one of the youngest players in the draft. It's deja vu. The things he has over Topic: he plays in the Big Ten rather than Adriatic league, and his shooting both off the catch and off the dribble seem less suspect. Defense is "ok" rather than "abysmal". Pair him with Castle in the backcourt and you get 2 tall shot creators who can both play off ball. Will see how he holds up against better defenders over the course of the year.

3. Jase Richardson: This guy's not even on most mock drafts I don't think. He's probably a trade-down target for the later in the first round. Son of ex-Warrior Jason Richardson, the man looks like potentially Michigan state's best player as a freshman. Hyper-efficient on low usage with a minuscule turnover rate so far, creation masked by not being the primary playmaker on his team. Would look at him as a Branham/Wesley 3rd guard substitute.

Trying not to let "fit" dictate forcing a mediocre player into being more than they are. McNeeley and Kneuppel both seem like awesome fits on paper because of their shooting, but that needs to be balanced out with everything else they might bring as well.

[Dejounte]

Wright’s top picks seem to be do-it-all versatile types. Jack of all trades, master of none. Able to be plugged in easily in the lineup and play at least two positions. This eliminates players who are strictly centers and small point guards, IMO.

Defense seems to be the second priority after that. I like Kasparas, but after watching his clips on defense I’m worried it might be bad.

maybe the two above can be swapped with each other (in priority).

i really feel that shooting is a non priority and that Wright is always going to be banking on players who are talented in a lot of areas, and if shooting isnt a talent then so be it. Castle becoming a good shooter so fast will cause him to lean in more to this idea.

I really wonder if there are any players in this draft that are being “hidden” as defensive only types and actually has decent offense or players who are playing a smaller role capable of doing a lot more. I think those would be Wright picks.

also, if our picks land after the 10th selection, folks shouldnt assume they’ll automatically nab a starting position throughout all of next season. That typically only happens to Spurs rookies selected between 1 to 10.

[Dejounte]

I think we are trying to keep the identity of being a defensive team.

i liked boyles last year and i really think he’s a candidate this year:


https://youtu.be/Sh_MDHzLI6c?feature=shared

[SpursBills]

I think we are trying to keep the identity of being a defensive team.

i liked boyles last year and i really think he’s a candidate this year:


https://youtu.be/Sh_MDHzLI6c?feature=shared

Love CMB, first popped up on my radar last year when he had that block at the rim against that 7'5" center playing for Ole Miss in the last 2 minutes of a close game.

While I agree with most of your points, I wonder about the scale that shooting is prioritized. I'd say that rather than disregarding it, the front office would probably de-emphasize it and that prospects most likely would have to exhibit some sort of shooting signal. In that sense, I worry about CMB a little bit since he has not even looked to shoot from the 3 point line this year while fully knowing that this was what NBA teams would look for the most after staying on for his sophomore year. We will also see how his passing looks as the year progresses as it was a significant strength for him last year but this year seems not to have improved. The good news is if the Spurs took him, there's less pressure on him to start with Sochan due to Champagnie's significant improvement this year.

Essengue is a pure age-productivity play and I suspect as the year goes on if he continues to put up the performances that he has he will likely play himself out of the Spurs' draft range so this may all be a moot point.

Richardson is the guy I'm looking at who's very low usage right now but may be ready to take on a larger role given his hyper-efficiency.

Always enjoy the time you take to watch film and your insights, sometimes I think that if I just took the prospects that both you and rascal agreed upon, it would be yield better results than about 95% of what scouts can do (so far this test is looking good - Wembanyama + Castle) :toast

[onechance87]

I think we are trying to keep the identity of being a defensive team.

i liked boyles last year and i really think he’s a candidate this year:


https://youtu.be/Sh_MDHzLI6c?feature=shared

we already got this type of player in jeremy sochan bro

[Dejounte]

we already got this type of player in jeremy sochan bro

I’m into just getting good players bro. If you could get another Wembanyama player to add to the team, would that stop you? Same philosophy applies. Good players learn to play with each other, no matter the skill overlap.

[Dejounte]

Love CMB, first popped up on my radar last year when he had that block at the rim against that 7'5" center playing for Ole Miss in the last 2 minutes of a close game.

While I agree with most of your points, I wonder about the scale that shooting is prioritized. I'd say that rather than disregarding it, the front office would probably de-emphasize it and that prospects most likely would have to exhibit some sort of shooting signal. In that sense, I worry about CMB a little bit since he has not even looked to shoot from the 3 point line this year while fully knowing that this was what NBA teams would look for the most after staying on for his sophomore year. We will also see how his passing looks as the year progresses as it was a significant strength for him last year but this year seems not to have improved. The good news is if the Spurs took him, there's less pressure on him to start with Sochan due to Champagnie's significant improvement this year.

Essengue is a pure age-productivity play and I suspect as the year goes on if he continues to put up the performances that he has he will likely play himself out of the Spurs' draft range so this may all be a moot point.

Richardson is the guy I'm looking at who's very low usage right now but may be ready to take on a larger role given his hyper-efficiency.

Always enjoy the time you take to watch film and your insights, sometimes I think that if I just took the prospects that both you and rascal agreed upon, it would be yield better results than about 95% of what scouts can do (so far this test is looking good - Wembanyama + Castle) :toast

Look at post 102 of this thread ;)

The further Noa is from the lottery right now, the better. I think it’s typically hard for prospects to make a big jump in their draft projections. While Noa looks better than Risacher in a lot of areas, shooting is still the one that stands out for the media and scouts and that might bar him from being viewed as a top 5 pick. I think he’ll float between 6 to 15 depending on his play and the leagues he chooses to participate in. Like, he won’t get the hype Sarr did because his unicorn-ness is nowhere near as impressive. He’s more like Poku in that he’ll show flashes but won’t do enough to catapult him as a top pick.

I have to check out Richardson.

[jesterbobman]

I'd be happy with Essengue and Kasparas at 10 - 15 or so as a combo.

Essengue is probably moving up boards if he continues playing like he has, and there are worse gambles than toolsy, productive players who are 6'9" and productive while young. I think if you're looking for more off ball wings with a bit of upside, he's one of the better options, as a possibility of being a slight positive both offensively and defensively. He's ahead of McNeeley at the moment for me.

I don't think Kasparas is strong enough yet to get through people, and he'll need to improve that to boost his finishing and be able to drive, as he'll have to get people with craft rather than speed. Comes with age, so not a huge concern. But great feel as a passer dribbling with both hands is good so he'll be able to attack a defense in rotation whatever way they defend him, and the shooting off the dribble is promising. I get worry about the defense, and the strength with be a thing there too, so he can cover the weaker of the Guard / small forward options.

I think they're both the B versions of Flagg and Harper respectively, who are the top two for me at the moment.

I think at the moment I'm at something like a general board of...
Flagg / Harper
Demin / VJ (watch list to move down - great in Olympic qualifying, can't put the ball in the basket effectively)
Maluach / Essengue / Kasparas / Bailey (He'll go earlier, bet on tools but not sure how good he'll be)
Tre / Kon Knuppel / Queen / CMB

Don't have a full list, and subject to change (e.g, if Nolan Traore starts putting the ball in the hoop).

[Dejounte]

IMO, the team is done trying to find its savior from the draft, so folks should focus less on thinking we’re going to get some super talent in upcoming drafts. The Spurs’ only hope for contention going forward is from developing its current core or from future trades and free agents. The purpose of the draft now is to get playable guys around the current core.

[BackHome]

You want a backup center out of the deep 2025 draft?

I would pick one with a late first or early second as it usually takes Centers 3 years to figure things out.

[onechance87]

I would pick one with a late first or early second as it usually takes Centers 3 years to figure things out.

johni broome maybe?

[SpursBills]

IMO, the team is done trying to find its savior from the draft, so folks should focus less on thinking we’re going to get some super talent in upcoming drafts. The Spurs’ only hope for contention going forward is from developing its current core or from future trades and free agents. The purpose of the draft now is to get playable guys around the current core.

It may very well be that as the game gets quicker and the court gets more spaced out, fatigue will become a bigger factor and stars will only be able to play limited minutes to prevent injury. I'm not sure whether it's coincidence or not but it sure seems like more stars have been getting injured recently.

Add this fact to new cap rules, and rather than a 3 star + role player team, it may be advisable to have either 2 stars + excellent role players or even 1 star + multiple above average well-fitting pieces with significant depth 2-8/9. Houston seems to be making this work although their "star" has a hard ceiling given his physical limitations. But if you replace Sengun with Wemby on that roster, Wemby-Smith-Eason-Amen-FVV-Brooks-Sheppard-Whitmore-above average SG not named Jalen Green looks like a young up and coming contender. Interestingly, Houston is also making it work with several limited shooters in their lineup so it may be a model to learn from.

[onechance87]

mcneely hasint been impressive...Thought he would be perfect next to victor,Not so sure now.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Add this fact to new cap rules, and rather than a 3 star + role player team, it may be advisable to have either 2 stars + excellent role players or even 1 star + multiple above average well-fitting pieces with significant depth 2-8/9. Houston seems to be making this work although their "star" has a hard ceiling given his physical limitations. But if you replace Sengun with Wemby on that roster, Wemby-Smith-Eason-Amen-FVV-Brooks-Sheppard-Whitmore-above average SG not named Jalen Green looks like a young up and coming contender. Interestingly, Houston is also making it work with several limited shooters in their lineup so it may be a model to learn from.

Team building under the new CBA is a very interesting topic indeed.

It does seem like the 3-star(i.e. 3 max contracts) contender is going to be something of the past because of the aprons, so teams will have to find more creative ways to construct contenders. Having only one true star and building around him with top level role players seems a good idea until these role players start being paid as stars, which is something we've seen. This makes contending windows shorter and different iterations of contending teams the norm, which is why we should not think about timelines - there will be many timelines. Finding these players to surround your star with will be the most important part - getting someone on the way up, instead of paying through the nose for an established one - as we've seen how these guys can fetch almost as much as a star in the trade market.

It'll be very important to keep maximum flexibility at all times and not find yourself in a box you can't get out of like Milwaukee is currently. Players would come, hopefully help win a title, then they'll get paid and move on and so should the team. Easier said than done, obviously, but consistently hitting on a combination of younger players rapidly improving and older vets who fit well, would be the winning formula. Of course, this is nothing new or ground breaking, what is new is that the likelihood to build a team with a 4-5 year window might not be possible.

There's another thing to consider. The backlash against the huge penalties in the latest CBA might lead to some sort of relaxation in the future. Say, supermax deals counting against the cap as a regular max or similar might help teams like the Spurs who build from the draft, especially with Wemby already in place and hopefully staying for a long time.

[cutewizard]

I'm getting to like Kasparas J

He has some skills, shooting, playmaking, passing

A tall guard who can organize our second unit.....

[cutewizard]

If we cannot get Egor, we should definitely consider Kasparas......

[exstatic]

Team building under the new CBA is a very interesting topic indeed.

It does seem like the 3-star(i.e. 3 max contracts) contender is going to be something of the past because of the aprons, so teams will have to find more creative ways to construct contenders. Having only one true star and building around him with top level role players seems a good idea until these role players start being paid as stars, which is something we've seen. This makes contending windows shorter and different iterations of contending teams the norm, which is why we should not think about timelines - there will be many timelines. Finding these players to surround your star with will be the most important part - getting someone on the way up, instead of paying through the nose for an established one - as we've seen how these guys can fetch almost as much as a star in the trade market.

It'll be very important to keep maximum flexibility at all times and not find yourself in a box you can't get out of like Milwaukee is currently. Players would come, hopefully help win a title, then they'll get paid and move on and so should the team. Easier said than done, obviously, but consistently hitting on a combination of younger players rapidly improving and older vets who fit well, would be the winning formula. Of course, this is nothing new or ground breaking, what is new is that the likelihood to build a team with a 4-5 year window might not be possible.

There's another thing to consider. The backlash against the huge penalties in the latest CBA might lead to some sort of relaxation in the future. Say, supermax deals counting against the cap as a regular max or similar might help teams like the Spurs who build from the draft, especially with Wemby already in place and hopefully staying for a long time.

The NBA purposefully put the second apron in to kill superteams. I doubt they walk it back. It will make for a more competitive product, with players going to less desirable franchises if they want to get paid. Small market teams will not need to look over their shoulders and be looked at as developmental squads for large market teams.

People bitch about anything new, but teams and fans will adjust eventually.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The NBA purposefully put the second apron in to kill superteams. I doubt they walk it back. It will make for a more competitive product, with players going to less desirable franchises if they want to get paid. Small market teams will not need to look over their shoulders and be looked at as developmental squads for large market teams.

People bitch about anything new, but teams and fans will adjust eventually.

I get the logic about competitiveness but historically the NBA has thrived on rivalries, dynasties and superstars. They’ve been losing viewership rapidly for years and with the new super lucrative TV deal coming there’s no doubt they’ll be under pressure to make changes.

[LeBowen]

I get the logic about competitiveness but historically the NBA has thrived on rivalries, dynasties and superstars. They’ve been losing viewership rapidly for years and with the new super lucrative TV deal coming there’s no doubt they’ll be under pressure to make changes.

They won't be able to make changes until this CBA deal expires, it just started.
Rivalries are better if teams are more balanced and superstars get more hype if they play on less stacked teams that are still contenders.
Dynasties are good only in retrospect, but teams like KD Warriors make everything pointless.
Lakers-Celtics rivalry in the 80s pretty much killed the league and if not for MJ, who knows what would've happened.
Another thing is that there's no actual animosity between players these days. Back in the day everyone loved to watch rivalry games because it always got physical and it was obvious the teams don't like each other.
Nowdays there's not a single matchup where that's the case. Everyone's best buddies with each other.

Viewership is dropping because it's 2024 and availability is awful.
Next season nationally televised games will be split between three providers, even if you buy league pass you get local blackouts, not to mention actually attending games.
Subpar regular season matchup between injury-riddled teams costs way too much, even for average seats. They don't want people to go to games regularly, especially the younger generation.

Also, the East is awful, there goes a lot of viewership.

[exstatic]

I get the logic about competitiveness but historically the NBA has thrived on rivalries, dynasties and superstars. They’ve been losing viewership rapidly for years and with the new super lucrative TV deal coming there’s no doubt they’ll be under pressure to make changes.

There hasn’t been a repeat champ in a while, and the second apron didn’t cause that. It also does nothing to stop rivalries. The product itself has been bad, but the NBA seems to have addressed this by allowing more defensive contact. Scoring had been just way too cheap before the ASG last year when they quietly rolled out the new guidelines. Superstars will still be superstars. In fact, their stardom maybe magnified with fewer of them clumped together on teams.

[baseline bum]

The NBA purposefully put the second apron in to kill superteams. I doubt they walk it back. It will make for a more competitive product, with players going to less desirable franchises if they want to get paid. Small market teams will not need to look over their shoulders and be looked at as developmental squads for large market teams.

People bitch about anything new, but teams and fans will adjust eventually.

It's kind of funny that OKC is going to be one of the teams most hurt by this CBA. Don't see how they're going to keep SGA + Holmgren + Williams much less their high end role players like Caruso, Wallace, Dort, and Hartenstein.

[baseline bum]

There hasn’t been a repeat champ in a while, and the second apron didn’t cause that. It also does nothing to stop rivalries. The product itself has been bad, but the NBA seems to have addressed this by allowing more defensive contact. Scoring had been just way too cheap before the ASG last year when they quietly rolled out the new guidelines. Superstars will still be superstars. In fact, their stardom maybe magnified with fewer of them clumped together on teams.

Yeah that's the hope, especially if Wemby ends up hitting his projections. Seems like this could be the era where one ultrastar could have an extreme outsized impact vs what he would have been historically when superteams were the norm.

[Bruno]

An update on various picks using Vegas odds:

Projected records:

EC:
1) Celtics: 62.5
2) Cavs: 58.5
3) Knicks: 53.5
4) Magic: 52.5
5) Bucks: 47.5
6) Heat: 45.5
7) Pacers: 42.5
8) Sixers: 38.5
9) Hawks: 35.5
10) Bulls: 30.5
11) Pistons: 29.5
12) Nets: 27.5
13) Hornets: 27.5
14) Raptors: 22.5
15) Wizards: 16.5

WC:
1) Thunder: 57.5
2) Mavs: 51.5
3) Warriors: 50.5
4) Suns: 50.5
5) Rockets: 49.5
6) Nuggets: 48.5
7) Grizzlies: 48.5
8) Wolves: 45.5
9) Lakers: 44.5
10) Clippers: 44.5
11) Kings: 40.5
12) Spurs: 37.5
13) Pelicans: 29.5
14) Blazers: 24.5
15) Jazz: 19.5

Spurs' own pick:
Spurs are unlikely to make the playoffs with a playoffs odd at +490. Right now the pick is projected at #11 with a 10% lottery odd of being in the top4. It's noteworthy that Spurs winning or losing an handful more of games will have little impact on the pick: Spurs wining 40 games will keep it at #11 and Spurs wining only 32 games will make it #10.

Hawks' pick:
Hawks pick is projected at #10 with a 14% lottery odd of being in the top4. Hawks are projected to make the play in (-270) but not the playoffs (+156). If they qualify for the playoffs through the play in, their pick will be #15 or #16. If they fail their play in tournament, the pick will likely be #10 or #11.

Bulls' pick (top10 protected):
Right now, the pick is projected at #9. If they finish with the 9th worst record, lottery odds give about a 3% odd of the pick being #11 and going to Spurs.

Hornet's pick (top 14 protected):
It's highly unlikely Spurs got that pick. Spurs will get that pick if Hornets make the playoffs and their playoff odd is currently at +880.


TLDR:
Spurs should get 2 or 3 picks between #10 and #16. There is something like a 15 to 20% lottery odd to have one of these pick turning into a top4 pick.

[SpursBills]

An update on various picks using Vegas odds:

Projected records:

EC:
1) Celtics: 62.5
2) Cavs: 58.5
3) Knicks: 53.5
4) Magic: 52.5
5) Bucks: 47.5
6) Heat: 45.5
7) Pacers: 42.5
8) Sixers: 38.5
9) Hawks: 35.5
10) Bulls: 30.5
11) Pistons: 29.5
12) Nets: 27.5
13) Hornets: 27.5
14) Raptors: 22.5
15) Wizards: 16.5

WC:
1) Thunder: 57.5
2) Mavs: 51.5
3) Warriors: 50.5
4) Suns: 50.5
5) Rockets: 49.5
6) Nuggets: 48.5
7) Grizzlies: 48.5
8) Wolves: 45.5
9) Lakers: 44.5
10) Clippers: 44.5
11) Kings: 40.5
12) Spurs: 37.5
13) Pelicans: 29.5
14) Blazers: 24.5
15) Jazz: 19.5

Spurs' own pick:
Spurs are unlikely to make the playoffs with a playoffs odd at +490. Right now the pick is projected at #11 with a 10% lottery odd of being in the top4. It's noteworthy that Spurs winning or losing an handful more of games will have little impact on the pick: Spurs wining 40 games will keep it at #11 and Spurs wining only 32 games will make it #10.

Hawks' pick:
Hawks pick is projected at #10 with a 14% lottery odd of being in the top4. Hawks are projected to make the play in (-270) but not the playoffs (+156). If they qualify for the playoffs through the play in, their pick will be #15 or #16. If they fail their play in tournament, the pick will likely be #10 or #11.

Bulls' pick (top10 protected):
Right now, the pick is projected at #9. If they finish with the 9th worst record, lottery odds give about a 30% off of the pick being #10 or #11 and going to Spurs.

Hornet's pick (top 14 protected):
It's highly unlikely Spurs got that pick. Spurs will get that pick if Hornets make the playoffs and their playoff odd is currently at +880.


TLDR:
Spurs should get 2 or 3 picks between #10 and #16. There is something like a 15 to 20% lottery odd to have one of these pick turning into a top4 pick.

Bruno, any insights early in the season on the French prospects for this year? Mainly regarding Essengue, Traore, and Penda. It looks like Traore has fallen off quite a bit trying to adjust to a higher usage role in a better league. Essengue has gotten off to a solid start, and Penda looks solid to me.

[exstatic]

It's kind of funny that OKC is going to be one of the teams most hurt by this CBA. Don't see how they're going to keep SGA + Holmgren + Williams much less their high end role players like Caruso, Wallace, Dort, and Hartenstein.

They can’t. Dort and Caruso will likely be out the door first. I’ll be interested to see if Presti is smart enough to churn assets, like moving Williams for picks to lighten the cap with young players again. Wallace has two cheap years after this one.

This is also why I don’t want us to trade OUR picks. Once we get going, we’ll need to replace vets from time to time with cheaper draft picks.

[Bruno]

Bruno, any insights early in the season on the French prospects for this year? Mainly regarding Essengue, Traore, and Penda. It looks like Traore has fallen off quite a bit trying to adjust to a higher usage role in a better league. Essengue has gotten off to a solid start, and Penda looks solid to me.

Traoré is quite struggling especially with his outside shot and against the better teams.
The best french teams are the ones playing the Euroleague (Monaco, ASVEl and Paris). Traoré played one game against each of these teams. His FGM/FGA for theses games: 1/9 against Monaco, 1/12 against ASVEL and 1/11 against Paris.
He has always that ability to drive to the basket with a good court vision but he hasn't been able to step up and adjust his game. His defense is also subpar.

I'm not sold on Essengue. He has for him to be very young with a great combination of size and mobility and to have a good feel for the game. My issue is that he is doing nothing really well right now. He is so far of being a productive player skill-wise and body-wise. Drafting him would be a huge gamble.

Penda is an older prospect and doesn't have the same upside than Traoré and Essengue. He is a good glue guy in french league doing a little of everything. He is the kind of role player every team like to have. If he is there in the second round, he would be a good option that will turn into a great option if he is fine with being stashed.

[CorrectCrusader]

I get the logic about competitiveness but historically the NBA has thrived on rivalries, dynasties and superstars. They’ve been losing viewership rapidly for years and with the new super lucrative TV deal coming there’s no doubt they’ll be under pressure to make changes.

Viewership is down because TV as a whole is down.

[scott]

It's going to be a lot easier for OKC to keep their core than the wishcasters on this website want to believe. SGA will become supermax eligible (35%) after this season but it won't kick in until 2027, JWill will get a rookie max (25%) , and Chet will likely extend for less than a max (probably around 21-22%). Chet and JWill's extensions will kick in as Hartenstein and Dort roll off.

A lot different than the TWolves who had KAT on a supermax (35%), Gobert on an over vet max (31.2%) to start, but declining, and Ant on a Rookie Supermax (30%).

OKC's big 3 will account for roughly 80% of the cap whereas Minn's big 3 was set to count for 93% of the cap this season. And OKC has done a good job of continuously replenishing the ranks (Wiggins Topic, Wallace, Jones all on cheap rookie deals through 2028 for Wallace and 2029 for Wiggins, Topic and Jones). Ajay Mitchell is on a two-way currently, they'll probably try to get him locked up. Hartenstein, Dort, and Caruso can be replaced if not resigned.

[exstatic]

It's going to be a lot easier for OKC to keep their core than the wishcasters on this website want to believe. SGA will become supermax eligible (35%) after this season but it won't kick in until 2027, JWill will get a rookie max (25%) , and Chet will likely extend for less than a max (probably around 21-22%). Chet and JWill's extensions will kick in as Hartenstein and Dort roll off.

A lot different than the TWolves who had KAT on a supermax (35%), Gobert on an over vet max (31.2%) to start, but declining, and Ant on a Rookie Supermax (30%).

OKC's big 3 will account for roughly 80% of the cap whereas Minn's big 3 was set to count for 93% of the cap this season. And OKC has done a good job of continuously replenishing the ranks (Wiggins Topic, Wallace, Jones all on cheap rookie deals through 2028 for Wallace and 2029 for Wiggins, Topic and Jones). Ajay Mitchell is on a two-way currently, they'll probably try to get him locked up. Hartenstein, Dort, and Caruso can be replaced if not resigned.

Talk about wishcasting. Chet is a much harder type to get than JWill. He will get 25% or he’ll threaten to walk if he has an agent with a pulse. The Minny thing is to my point: they didn’t keep that together, and STILL will struggle to keep pieces like Naz.

That is not fully correct. You get players cheap for 4 years, unless you stupidly let them get to year 5 and unrestricted free agency. If Cason gets an extension, it will kick in after year 4, summer of 2027.

I’m not saying OKC is going to drop into the lottery, but their title window is much shorter than people think, like two years. Guys that you casually roll off like Caruso and Hartenstein directly addressed specific shortcomings that they had in the playoffs last year, and when they’re gone, OKC is right back to 2023, subpar rebounding and post/rim defense against sturdy bigs. They’ll be a second round out, tops.

[scott]

Talk about wishcasting. Chet is a much harder type to get than JWill. He will get 25% or he’ll threaten to walk if he has an agent with a pulse. The Minny thing is to my point: they didn’t keep that together, and STILL will struggle to keep pieces like Naz.

That is not fully correct. You get players cheap for 4 years, unless you stupidly let them get to year 5 and unrestricted free agency. If Cason gets an extension, it will kick in after year 4, summer of 2027.

I’m not saying OKC is going to drop into the lottery, but their title window is much shorter than people think, like two years. Guys that you casually roll off like Caruso and Hartenstein directly addressed specific shortcomings that they had in the playoffs last year, and when they’re gone, OKC is right back to 2023, subpar rebounding and post/rim defense against sturdy bigs. They’ll be a second round out, tops.

Chet is extension eligible this summer, at which time he'll have spent over 50% of his career on the injury list. But even if he does sign a 25% rookie max, OKC will still be in a vastly superior position to Minny.

They can keep Wallace for relatively cheap (12% of the cap in year 5) through 2028 is the point. OKC can keep their big 3 for awhile, and has the draft capital to supplement that big 3 with incoming cheap deals or talent via trade, no matter how tight you close your eyes and say a prayer otherwise.

[exstatic]

Chet is extension eligible this summer, at which time he'll have spent over 50% of his career on the injury list. But even if he does sign a 25% rookie max, OKC will still be in a vastly superior position to Minny.

They can keep Wallace for relatively cheap (12% of the cap in year 5) through 2028 is the point. OKC can keep their big 3 for awhile, and has the draft capital to supplement that big 3 with incoming cheap deals or talent via trade, no matter how tight you close your eyes and say a prayer otherwise.

If they keep Wallace until 2028 without an extension or new contract, he becomes unrestricted. He was drafted in 2023, and is cheap thru 2027, not 2028. That fifth year (2027-2028), if they don’t reach an extension or new contract and he signs the tender, it’s considered a one year contract, and they cannot trade him. You’re one year off on this, my dude.

[scott]

If they keep Wallace until 2028 without an extension or new contract, he becomes unrestricted. He was drafted in 2023, and is cheap thru 2027, not 2028. That fifth year (2027-2028), if they don’t reach an extension or new contract and he signs the tender, it’s considered a one year contract, and they cannot trade him. You’re one year off on this, my dude.

The fifth year is still relatively cheap (12% of the cap) - meaning at a minimum, they can keep him relatively cheap through 2028… which is what I wrote. I’m not a year off, you’re just confusing an extension with having him cost controlled until 2028. At which point, they can just let him go (if they haven’t traded him by then). He’s their backup PG, not the critical member of their squad.

[exstatic]

The fifth year is still relatively cheap (12% of the cap) - meaning at a minimum, they can keep him relatively cheap through 2028… which is what I wrote. I’m not a year off, you’re just confusing an extension with having him cost controlled until 2028. At which point, they can just let him go (if they haven’t traded him by then). He’s their backup PG, not the critical member of their squad.

You don’t let them get to year five, ever. They can walk, unrestricted.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Lakers-Celtics rivalry in the 80s pretty much killed the league and if not for MJ, who knows what would've happened.

Not to get off topic here... but by killed the league, do you mean rescued it from the nether regions of the nation's consciousness and from tape delayed playoff games? I've seen a lot of takes on this board, but you can literally point to the exact time when Bird and Magic entered the league as the launching pad for the league's popularity. There are still people who look at that time period as the absolute zenith of the league.

[LeBowen]

Not to get off topic here... but by killed the league, do you mean rescued it from the nether regions of the nation's consciousness and from tape delayed playoff games? I've seen a lot of takes on this board, but you can literally point to the exact time when Bird and Magic entered the league as the launching pad for the league's popularity. There are still people who look at that time period as the absolute zenith of the league.

In short, it made people pay attention to the NBA again, but it was counter productive for the rest of the league because from Magic's first finals up until the Bulls made it, just 5 teams played made the finals.
Most of the league had nothing to play for, especially in the West.
I still remember that interview with Ice when the interviewer told him how he was the original KD if we talk playstyle and he replied that he could've also done a KD, but where would the fun be if he joined Magic and Kareem.

Yes, the Bulls dominated, but conference finals and finals had way more variety.

[jesterbobman]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5948361/2024/12/03/nba-draft-2025-big-board-cooper-flagg-ace-bailey/

New Vecenie big board.

Has Kasparas up to #5, and I think he'll be up there near the end, so it seems like the SpursBills and I dream is likely dead unless we have lottery luck. I think that was only a matter of time. Jase Richardson is up to 15. That guy knows how to play, it will be interesting to see what happens as he takes on more and more offensive load, and if he gets targeted more as a average athlete without huge size.

[BackHome]

Yeah the more time goes it looks like Atlanta pick will be 21 and will be around low 20’s

Probably start looking at:

SG/SF - Hugo Gonzales - Athletic guy who plays defense may slip because not getting playing time in a deep Spain Team
SF - Alex Karaban - Not the most athletic but he can shoot and plays smart basketball just a solid player which fits his draft range

PF - Mackenzie Mgbako - Another solid player could be a good backup to Sochan
C - Ryann Kalkbrenner - If we not in lottery then we need to add a good free agent so making it win sooner so probably need a good backup to Wemby

[exstatic]

Yeah the more time goes it looks like Atlanta pick will be 21 and will be around low 20’s

Dude, it’s December 3rd.

[onechance87]

Dude, it’s December 3rd.

exactly....Now imagine when teams are really trying to tank by at the trade deadline and end of season.Atl will be one of the
top teams in the east.

[heyheymymy]

9 DUKE
2 AUB

8:15 PM CST
WED DEC 4
ESPN

[intlspurshk]

It is stupid that SPURS don't tank in this year when so many good players are in top 10 and SPURS don't even develop its big 3.

[TrainOfThought5]

It’s depressing watching you guys talk about progressively worse prospects as the picks look worse and worse.

[baseline bum]

In short, it made people pay attention to the NBA again, but it was counter productive for the rest of the league because from Magic's first finals up until the Bulls made it, just 5 teams played made the finals.
Most of the league had nothing to play for, especially in the West.
I still remember that interview with Ice when the interviewer told him how he was the original KD if we talk playstyle and he replied that he could've also done a KD, but where would the fun be if he joined Magic and Kareem.

Yes, the Bulls dominated, but conference finals and finals had way more variety.

Gotta disagree man. I went to plenty of Spurs games in the 80s and no one in Hemisfair looked at it like the Spurs having nothing to play for. It was a really fun time to be a fan.

[baseline bum]

It’s depressing watching you guys talk about progressively worse prospects as the picks look worse and worse.

IDK, it means the team is looking better than we thought it would be. Flagg is the only prospect I think is good enough to warrant a tank for. But with Area 51 here plus Vassell and Sochan looking pretty good I'll take the wins over an at best 14% chance at Flagg.

[baseline bum]

9 DUKE
2 AUB

8:15 PM CST
WED DEC 4
ESPN

Thanks, will def be checking that to see Flagg, Maluach, and Knueppel tonight.

[scott]

Thanks, will def be checking that to see Flagg, Maluach, and Knueppel tonight.

Watch for Johni Broom, PF/C for Auburn as well. He's jumped up the boards after his performance in the Maui Invitational. Currently mocked in the early 20s

[heyheymymy]

Yeh I'm watching Johni Broome closely

6'10 240 big body forward which I still say SA has a hole for in the roster

Kinda intrigued by what K Man is, too

[Uriel]

Is Nolan Traore the player most likely to be taken by the Spurs? The fact that he’s French, plays a position of need, is within the Spurs’ projected draft range, and has drawn comparisons to Tony Parker makes me think so.

[stnick2261]

Is Nolan Traore the player most likely to be taken by the Spurs? The fact that he’s French, plays a position of need, is within the Spurs’ projected draft range, and has drawn comparisons to Tony Parker makes me think so.

Sometimes, I like to go into Tankathon and sort by Assists per 36min. Traore is first with 8.3. I thought he was known as a good shooter, but is shooting poorly right now (maybe why he's falling?). Egor Demin is tied for 3rd place with 7.1 assists per 36min. If we win a top 4 pick and somehow got both players, we could play both of them along with Castle and Vassell... keeping 3 on the court at all times at 36minutes each.

Looking at assists though, I see Kam Jones at mock pick #27. 6'5" SG with 7.4 assists per 36min. He looks like he's doing a bit of everything. As a senior, he'd probably come into the NBA ready to play.

[exstatic]

Sometimes, I like to go into Tankathon and sort by Assists per 36min. Traore is first with 8.3. I thought he was known as a good shooter, but is shooting poorly right now (maybe why he's falling?). Egor Demin is tied for 3rd place with 7.1 assists per 36min. If we win a top 4 pick and somehow got both players, we could play both of them along with Castle and Vassell... keeping 3 on the court at all times at 36minutes each.

Looking at assists though, I see Kam Jones at mock pick #27. 6'5" SG with 7.4 assists per 36min. He looks like he's doing a bit of everything. As a senior, he'd probably come into the NBA ready to play.

He’s not a great shooter, but:
Traore 25.5% from 3
Flagg 24.2% from 3

He’s blur quick, and dimes like no one’s business. He’s also 6’3” and is 9th in the French league in blocks.

[LeBowen]

We said it last season, then Castle exceeded all expectations as a shooter, but I really think he was the last subpar shooter we could've afforded to draft.
We need a high volume, high efficency shooter in this draft, no other way around it.

[exstatic]

We said it last season, then Castle exceeded all expectations as a shooter, but I really think he was the last subpar shooter we could've afforded to draft.
We need a high volume, high efficency shooter in this draft, no other way around it.

So, would you not draft Flagg?

[scott]

According to Vencenie's last podcast, Traore has looked pretty bad this season, and he expects him to fall a little bit. I have watched exactly 0.0 minutes or tape of Traore so I have no opinion of my own. I do see he's now mocked to us at 12 on Tankathon.

On a side note, on Planet Tank it is interesting to note that almost all of the current lottery teams, and certainly all of them if you exclude the play-in teams of PHX and MIN, are teams that hold their own pick. Every time that has traded away their pick is at least in the play-in or better as of right now. The invisible hand of tank incentives at work.

[LeBowen]

So, would you not draft Flagg?

Flagg looks like a tier better prospect than everyone else, Traore doesn't.
If we're talking Flagg, if we somehow win the jackpot yet again, one of the two scenarios would have to happen, imo:
1) Trade down. I'm sure offers would be flying in. I'd accept something like Herb+pick from NOLA or Coulibaly+pick from Washington if they land in #3-6 range.
2) Trade Jeremy. Would become redundant with Flagg on the roster.

[LeBowen]

https://x.com/krystenpeek/status/1866511794711531909

Someone start the topic!

[scott]

There's AJ Dybantsa to the Spurs Buzz...

[exstatic]

Flagg looks like a tier better prospect than everyone else, Traore doesn't.
If we're talking Flagg, if we somehow win the jackpot yet again, one of the two scenarios would have to happen, imo:
1) Trade down. I'm sure offers would be flying in. I'd accept something like Herb+pick from NOLA or Coulibaly+pick from Washington if they land in #3-6 range.
2) Trade Jeremy. Would become redundant with Flagg on the roster.

Flagg looks like a white Sochan.

[scott]

Flagg looks like a white Sochan.

Danny Ainge gonna beat off to your post later, ex

[Pauleta14]

Is Nolan Traore the player most likely to be taken by the Spurs? The fact that he’s French, plays a position of need, is within the Spurs’ projected draft range, and has drawn comparisons to Tony Parker makes me think so.

Traore doesn't have much in common with TP aside of being French.

TP was a SG who had to play PG, he was obsesses with scoring and had to develop his play making and athleticism etc

Traore's issue this season is shooting/scoring when his play making and athleticism are better than TP's at the same age (speed aside)

Not sure he'll be a target if Castle keeps showing he's our future starting PG

[rjv]

the way things are playing out, records wise-with ATL and the Spurs-I don't think that Traore will be available at where the Spurs will probably be picking.

[exstatic]

the way things are playing out, records wise-with ATL and the Spurs-I don't think that Traore will be available at where the Spurs will probably be picking.

He’s currently mocked at #12 to SA on TaT.

[Mr. Body]

Some of these players are not going to come out this year. Look for those who have dropped to probably come out next year, guys like Traore and Knueppel. There's no guarantee a lot of them stay.

[spurraider21]

i havent watched any Traore this year but the guy is averaging 10 points 5 assists on less than 33% from the field, what are we even talking about

[exstatic]

i havent watched any Traore this year but the guy is averaging 10 points 5 assists on less than 33% from the field, what are we even talking about

You don’t draft on what’s player is, but on what you project they can be. He’s a playmaking blur who has enough vert to be #9 in the French league in blocks at 6’3”.

People are Gaga over Castle, but his rookie non counting stats are nothing to write home about. No one was I love with his UConn stats,either. It takes time to gain efficiency.

[Mr. Body]

i havent watched any Traore this year but the guy is averaging 10 points 5 assists on less than 33% from the field, what are we even talking about

A player who won't be in this year's draft.

[spurraider21]

You don’t draft on what’s player is, but on what you project they can be. He’s a playmaking blur who has enough vert to be #9 in the French league in blocks at 6’3”.

People are Gaga over Castle, but his rookie non counting stats are nothing to write home about. No one was I love with his UConn stats,either. It takes time to gain efficiency.
castle was an elite defender as a freshman which was his main attribute. the connective passing and physicality on offense were nice but he wasnt billed as some offensive dynamo

obviously you look at potential, but if somebody is all potential, they typically arent lotto guys

[Mr. Body]

If Castle came out Wemby's year, he'd be in the talk alongside Anthony Black as coming after VW/Miller/Scoot/Amen/Ausar.

[John B]

If Castle came out Wemby's year, he'd be in the talk alongside Anthony Black as coming after VW/Miller/Scoot/Amen/Ausar.

I’d take Castle over Amen and Ausar tbh. Castle is only missing a consistent jumper but he’s coming along fine. Everything else he’s dialed in, already a better POA defender.

[spurraider21]

I’d take Castle over Amen and Ausar tbh. Castle is only missing a consistent jumper but he’s coming along fine. Everything else he’s dialed in, already a better POA defender.
he's talking about how they were viewed as prospects. i agree with mr body that had they been in the same draft, castle likely would have gone after amen/ausar. the anthony black comparison (as prospects) is an apt one.

[BackHome]

Yeah, I think he would have gone around 5 to 7 pick- Maybe over Ausur but not over Bilal Coulibaly

[Uriel]

Flagg looks like a white Sochan.
Flagg is better than Sochan, both offensively and defensively. He's taller, longer, more mobile, more athletic, better at creating his own shot, has preternatural defensive instincts... I can't think of a single thing Sochan does better than Flagg.

And I like Sochan a lot. :lol

[baseline bum]

I’d take Castle over Amen and Ausar tbh. Castle is only missing a consistent jumper but he’s coming along fine. Everything else he’s dialed in, already a better POA defender.

Amen is a defensive monster. I'd even take him over Miller in a 2023 redraft and it gives me a bit more faith in the FO that supposedly he was #2 on their board behind Wemby back when we were all talking shit about OTE (myself included).

[SpursBills]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5948361/2024/12/03/nba-draft-2025-big-board-cooper-flagg-ace-bailey/

New Vecenie big board.

Has Kasparas up to #5, and I think he'll be up there near the end, so it seems like the SpursBills (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=18470) and I dream is likely dead unless we have lottery luck. I think that was only a matter of time. Jase Richardson is up to 15. That guy knows how to play, it will be interesting to see what happens as he takes on more and more offensive load, and if he gets targeted more as a average athlete without huge size.

Vecenie sleeping on Jeremiah Fears big time - not sure whether he thinks it's because he's not coming out this year or it's an oversight, but honestly I've got him as an easy lottery pick if he keeps this up. All that's holding him back is potentially his measurements, but if he's actually 6'4" like Oklahoma lists him as, I'd have no problem putting him next to Castle. 3 level scorer, gets into the paint and to the line at will, confident as hell. I don't even care about his shooting, he just turned 18 and shoots mid 80s from the line. True lead guard chops with a 30+ AST%/5+ STL%, I've got him in about the same tier as Edgecomb and above Ace Bailey.

EDIT regarding Ace Bailey:
Going to throw out similar filters that I did for Risacher last year:

6'11" or under / AST:TO < 0.6 / 3PA > 80 (to filter out bigs) / AST% < 10 (Wings with poor feel drafted in the 1st round throughout history)

Michael Beasley
TJ Warren
Doug McDermott
O-Max Prosper
Lazar Hayward
Cam Whitmore
Jabari Parker
Shabazz Muhammed
Harrison Barnes
James Anderson (!)
Chris Singleton

Some scary ass names up there and not one star. Not saying it's not possible or anything, but I'd proceed with caution. Maybe he's like rich man's GG Jackson or something and bucks the trend

[Mr. Body]

I don't think I agree that Flagg is more mobile and athletic than Sochan. I think that is overselling Flagg a bit.

[Mr. Body]

Jakucionas is the Spurs player here. He could be top 5 in the end, but he's the type of player who gets pushed out by top athletes. Here's hoping.

[Thomas82]

I wouldn't mind getting Georgia power forward Asa Newell myself.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysxIAh7Vzgw

[cutewizard]

I think this is the interview..........


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1K8BuVlSrs

[Vienna]

Jakucionas is the Spurs player here. He could be top 5 in the end, but he's the type of player who gets pushed out by top athletes. Here's hoping.

considering the Spurs tried to get Austin Reaves, they should see an even more skilled version of Reaves in Jakucionis. but I agree, he will end up to high on the board. might be worth a move to somehow get a chance to draft him.

[heyheymymy]

AJ is going to BYU

The soak is now a recruitment tool I guess

[exstatic]

I don't think I agree that Flagg is more mobile and athletic than Sochan. I think that is overselling Flagg a bit.

Been just a bit of that going on.

I’m an Old, so I’ve seen a few things. When I was much younger, any time a white boxer got even halfway up the heavyweight rankings, there was a media clamor for a title bout. It’s called the Great White Hope, it’s a thing, and it’s not just confined to boxing.

[Mr. Body]

Been just a bit of that going on.

I’m an Old, so I’ve seen a few things. When I was much younger, any time a white boxer got even halfway up the heavyweight rankings, there was a media clamor for a title bout. It’s called the Great White Hope, it’s a thing, and it’s not just confined to boxing.

And it's really hype overall and a reason why Scoot was taken too high. Cooper Flagg is definitely a very good player, top two or three in this draft, but he doesn't look like the generational talent he was pipped as. Whoever gets the #1 pick may be forced by team fans and sports media to take Flagg when it looks like Harper may be the clear top pick in the draft.

[LeBowen]

Whoever gets the #1 pick may be forced by team fans and sports media to take Flagg when it looks like Harper may be the clear top pick in the draft.

Then they don't deserve any better.
If you're actually making a living off scouting players and constructing the roster, you shouldn't care about media opinions.
Kind of how noone expected Magic to take Banchero and it turns out people actually being paid to scout players were right.
Or all the talk about how Edwards doesn't care about basketball. If Minnesota took anyone else in that draft, they'd still be horrible.

[Mr. Body]

Then they don't deserve any better.
If you're actually making a living off scouting players and constructing the roster, you shouldn't care about media opinions.
Kind of how noone expected Magic to take Banchero and it turns out people actually being paid to scout players were right.
Or all the talk about how Edwards doesn't care about basketball. If Minnesota took anyone else in that draft, they'd still be horrible.

GMs like to keep their jobs. Owners like to sell tickets.

[LeBowen]

GMs like to keep their jobs. Owners like to sell tickets.

Owners like to sell tickets, but often work against themselves by influencing front office decisions.

[scott]

Owners like to sell tickets, but often work against themselves by influencing front office decisions.

https://cdn.britannica.com/91/262491-050-F75E1981/Dallas-Cowboys-owner-Jerry-Jones-is-seen-on-the-field-prior-to-a-game-between-the-San-Francisco-49ers-and-Dallas-Cowboys-in-the-NFC-Wild-Card-Playoff-game-at-ATT-Stadium-on-January-16-2022-in-Arlington-Texas.jpg

[Bruno]

If Spurs want to add a playmaker/ballhandler with some size Jakucionas, Traoré and Saraf are all 3 very intriguing prospects. They are very different players but they quite fill the same niche. They're about the same size and have comparable strengths and weaknesses (defense and outside shooting).

[spurraider21]

If Spurs want to add a playmaker/ballhandler with some size Jakucionas, Traoré and Saraf are all 3 very intriguing prospects. They are very different players but they quite fill the same niche. They're about the same size and have comparable strengths and weaknesses (defense and outside shooting).
jakucionis is hitting 44% of his 3's on 5 attempts per game. is that really a weakness?

[Bruno]

jakucionis is hitting 44% of his 3's on 5 attempts per game. is that really a weakness?

It's based on what he did in Europe before joining college basketball. We will see his shooting numbers for this season when the sample size will be bigger.

[BackHome]

Yeah his numbers look good as his last two games he went off as he took 18 threes and made 10 of them which really helped his percentages. He probably won’t be able to keep doing that for the season but if he does he might work his way in top 6.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkowA0LzAkI

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLVueiZ3So0

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uct2-jsiDmM

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-fFWXNUiYs

[Bruno]

Nets tanking, with the Schröder trade, improves a little Spurs' odds of getting Bulls and/or Hornets pick. The most likely scenario is still Spurs not getting these picks, especially the Hornets' one, but it's a step in the right direction.

[Mr. Body]

I'm doubting how good this supposedly good draft class is overall. There seem to be two alphas and I'm not sure Flagg is actually an alpha. Tremendous defender, potentially, which is certainly something, but right now he looks to me like an amped-up Jeremy Sochan. A very good player.

Harper looks a ton to me like James Harden. Maybe without the bells and whistles of flops and foul-baiting or the advantage creation, but the build and wiles and scoring. Right now he's my #1.

Then there are some intriguing players, but no one I'm totally thirsting over. We'll see more as we enter conference play. I'm also more narrow-casting toward Spurs needs. A multi-tool guy like Demin or Jakucionis are pretty dang intriguing. A bucket like Tre Johnson is intriguing. I think they'll be gone before our pick.

But overall and objectively it doesn't seem like a phenomenal class.

[exstatic]

I'm doubting how good this supposedly good draft class is overall. There seem to be two alphas and I'm not sure Flagg is actually an alpha. Tremendous defender, potentially, which is certainly something, but right now he looks to me like an amped-up Jeremy Sochan. A very good player.

Harper looks a ton to me like James Harden. Maybe without the bells and whistles of flops and foul-baiting or the advantage creation, but the build and wiles and scoring. Right now he's my #1.

Then there are some intriguing players, but no one I'm totally thirsting over. We'll see more as we enter conference play. I'm also more narrow-casting toward Spurs needs. A multi-tool guy like Demin or Jakucionis are pretty dang intriguing. A bucket like Tre Johnson is intriguing. I think they'll be gone before our pick.

But overall and objectively it doesn't seem like a phenomenal class.

It’s a good class, but we probably won’t be able to take advantage of it unless ATL comes back to earth.

[Mr. Body]

It’s a good class, but we probably won’t be able to take advantage of it unless ATL comes back to earth.

No, I don't think it's that good of a class. Maybe we'll see guys move up to take the spots overrated players are vacating, like Traore and possibly Edgecombe. It's what always happens.

Not getting mid-high lottery picks may not be terrible when there aren't great players there, if you can't get top 2.

[onechance87]

what yall think of boogie fland....Looks like in our range that we can get.Can shoot and pass and play sum d.Dont see wesley and tre jones
part of our future hopefully.Lord knows we need to add talent with shooting and playmaking.

[BackHome]

He will definitely be in our range he is a good player but will be going through same argument we went through last year regarding short players as he is only 6’2. I wouldn’t use our first pick on him but depends on who is available with our second pick.

[CGD]

It’s a good class, but we probably won’t be able to take advantage of it unless ATL comes back to earth.

They just need to stay a play-in team. Anything can happen in the shitty East between 7-10, including Chicago upsetting Atlanta in one of those games. That would be the best of both worlds.

[SpursBills]

I'll continue to bang this drum if he continues his hot start, but right now in my opinion Jeremiah Fears is by far the best player that would potentially be available in the spurs' range. He's mocked anywhere from late lottery to late first, but to me he belongs top 5 behind Harper and right around where everyone has Jakucionis with true two-way star potential. I can probably talk myself into him at 3 behind Harper and Flagg honestly.

If the spurs are looking for another combo guard ball-handler or 3rd guard, there are some excellent options this draft. Boogie Fland is kind of Dillingham redux where he's a Calipari guard, great shotmaker and passes well but can't really finish at the rim. Jace Richardson is this year's Sheppard as a high efficiency low usage role playing combo guard who always seems to make the right decision. Labaron Philon is a little bit like a smaller Castle as a really well rounded combo guard who's solid in most aspects and a great perimeter defender. However, none of them has the star potential of Fears.

1. Frame - per Givony, he's grown 3 inches and 30 pounds in the last 2 years. He's listed at 6'4" by Oklahoma and looks like he has decent length. He's got a good frame that looks like it can continue to add muscle. He's supposed to be a HS senior (about Flagg's age) and he's still skinny, so he's still likely early in his physical development. Regardless, by the time he physically develops, he'll be big enough to likely hold up on a switch and not completely die like some of the smaller guards from last year.

2. Skills - kid's got some dirty handles. Not as shifty as Dillingham, not as fast as Fox, not as strong/explosive as Dennis Smith Jr. But he's smooth and above average in all 3 of those things. Lightning quick crossover and can get into the paint in the blink of an eye.

3. Defense - comes and goes, but he's definitely flashed the ability to lock in as a man defender; haven't seen enough to really make a judgement on his team defense and awareness. 5% STL rate is bound to come down, but he's shown excellent awareness and potential on that end.

4. Numbers - 30+ AST%, 4+ STL%, 50% free throw rate on 30+ Usage for a freshman who just turned 18 is absolutely nutty and borderline unheard-of. More importantly, his numbers clearly paint a picture of what his tape shows - a guy who can relentlessly get into the paint and finish at a good rate while there (64% at the rim), and draw fouls at an extremely high rate. He's putting up similar and better numbers relative to guys like Fox, DSJ, and Jaden Ivey, except he's 1-2 years younger and probably physically less developed. Additionally, his rim pressure synergizes with his frame. He's bigger and probably longer than the aforementioned 3 with the likelihood of getting stronger in the coming years, giving his rim pressure a higher chance to translate.

5. Team success - Oklahoma was expected to be ranked around 50-60 preseason and now finds itself ranked top 15. Fears doesn't seem to be just putting up empty stats; his numbers are actually translating to team success above what was originally expected

6. Weaknesses - turnovers, and 3 point shooting. Decision making is probably my biggest worry with him, but again given his youth and inexperience, it's something that I can give him a pass for. Regarding 3 point shooting, he does have certain shooting indicators. The 3s that he's made have all looked smooth and in rhythm, including a couple step backs and pull ups. Most importantly, he shoots mid 80s from the FT line indicating decent touch. This is something that we don't typically see when we look at prior rim-pressure prospects (Fox, DSJ, Ivey were all mid to high 70s). Given the variance of 3 point shooting at a young age and his shooting indicators, I think that Fears has a better chance than most of developing his shooting. If he does, you are looking at an athletic 3 level scorer with decent size and a good frame. That's a star.

7. Personality - this guy seems confident as hell and doesn't shrink from the moment. Will need to know more about his work ethic, but his rapid improvement from a relative unknown in high school to now indicates some degree of work ethic and ability to improve his game.


Many on this board have put forth the idea that this team still lacks rim pressure, an assertion that I agree with. Wemby is leaning into shooting, Vassell is at his core a jump shooter, and Castle as impressed as I've been with him does not have that ability to collapse a defense. I was hoping Topic could be that guy last year, but unfortunately he had his own warts (abysmal defense, questionable competition, below the rim athleticism, questionable physical dimensions) that came to the forefront on further inspection. I think that while Fears does not demonstrate the court vision and awareness that Topic did, he also is strong where Topic is weak and I have fewer concerns about his strengths translating. As the spurs are unlikely to be in position to draft Harper and even Jakucionis, Fears is the best chance that they have of drafting a two way impact player with star upside as a scorer and ball-handler. Hopefully the rest of the nba doesn't catch on, but at least 10 games into the season, he seems to be a top 5 pick hiding in plain sight.

[BackHome]

I just a mock draft and I picked:

12. Collin Boyles
16. J. Fears
41. Noah Penda
44. Bogoljbub Markovic

[Bruno]

This draft isn't that great for tanking teams. There is a great top2 with Flagg/Harper but after that it's more blurry. Even a prospect like Ace Bailey is showing significant flaws.

However, it's a very nice draft for a team like Spurs with at least two mid first round pick. There is just a lot of intriguing prospect. For example this week end, Mcneeley and Asa Newell were great. There is something like a dozen of prospects worth keeping an eye on.

[Vienna]

when watching UConn there were some moments when Solo Ball caught my attention. (what a name. well, maybe not for a team sport).
didn't get much playing time last season und is kind of old for a sophomore (turned 21 last week), but wow....what an athlete and he can shoot.
reminds me of UCLA Norm Powell, but even better athlete. (allegedly 44" vertical).
likely more of a 2nd round prospect, but fun to watch.

[BackHome]

Looking at the draft I would still be very happy if we could get a pick at 11 and another around 13 and still have hope Chicago screws up and maybe gives us the 11th or 12th pick

[Guru of Nothing]

Have not been paying attention. Has anyone mentioned Danny Wolf yet. Not bad for a 20 year old, 7-ft guard.

0eZUm5t8Oco

[BackHome]

There are a couple of bigs I really like and he is one of them as he has showed up in his new Michigan team. He is not a bad athlete for his height and weight and can use it to punish players down low. But what stood out is his handles, his passing, and just knowing where to be on the court. He is a smart player and he plays with passion and a little edge to his game.

I think him and Wemby could even play together as his handles and passing are that good and he can be the backup when Wemby is out and bang with the other Centers. I would be happy if we are able to draft him but I think people are noticing him so his draft range will probably change.

[SpursBills]

30/4/3 on 8/12 shooting (3/4 from 3) and 11/13 from the line today in a win over #24 Michigan, including a game winning 4 point play at the end. Just turned 18 and single handedly took over in the second half against a top 25 team

Dude is the goods, but probably just played himself out of the spurs range. Bigger De'aaron Fox with 3 point shooting stroke



I'll continue to bang this drum if he continues his hot start, but right now in my opinion Jeremiah Fears is by far the best player that would potentially be available in the spurs' range. He's mocked anywhere from late lottery to late first, but to me he belongs top 5 behind Harper and right around where everyone has Jakucionis with true two-way star potential. I can probably talk myself into him at 3 behind Harper and Flagg honestly.

If the spurs are looking for another combo guard ball-handler or 3rd guard, there are some excellent options this draft. Boogie Fland is kind of Dillingham redux where he's a Calipari guard, great shotmaker and passes well but can't really finish at the rim. Jace Richardson is this year's Sheppard as a high efficiency low usage role playing combo guard who always seems to make the right decision. Labaron Philon is a little bit like a smaller Castle as a really well rounded combo guard who's solid in most aspects and a great perimeter defender. However, none of them has the star potential of Fears.

1. Frame - per Givony, he's grown 3 inches and 30 pounds in the last 2 years. He's listed at 6'4" by Oklahoma and looks like he has decent length. He's got a good frame that looks like it can continue to add muscle. He's supposed to be a HS senior (about Flagg's age) and he's still skinny, so he's still likely early in his physical development. Regardless, by the time he physically develops, he'll be big enough to likely hold up on a switch and not completely die like some of the smaller guards from last year.

2. Skills - kid's got some dirty handles. Not as shifty as Dillingham, not as fast as Fox, not as strong/explosive as Dennis Smith Jr. But he's smooth and above average in all 3 of those things. Lightning quick crossover and can get into the paint in the blink of an eye.

3. Defense - comes and goes, but he's definitely flashed the ability to lock in as a man defender; haven't seen enough to really make a judgement on his team defense and awareness. 5% STL rate is bound to come down, but he's shown excellent awareness and potential on that end.

4. Numbers - 30+ AST%, 4+ STL%, 50% free throw rate on 30+ Usage for a freshman who just turned 18 is absolutely nutty and borderline unheard-of. More importantly, his numbers clearly paint a picture of what his tape shows - a guy who can relentlessly get into the paint and finish at a good rate while there (64% at the rim), and draw fouls at an extremely high rate. He's putting up similar and better numbers relative to guys like Fox, DSJ, and Jaden Ivey, except he's 1-2 years younger and probably physically less developed. Additionally, his rim pressure synergizes with his frame. He's bigger and probably longer than the aforementioned 3 with the likelihood of getting stronger in the coming years, giving his rim pressure a higher chance to translate.

5. Team success - Oklahoma was expected to be ranked around 50-60 preseason and now finds itself ranked top 15. Fears doesn't seem to be just putting up empty stats; his numbers are actually translating to team success above what was originally expected

6. Weaknesses - turnovers, and 3 point shooting. Decision making is probably my biggest worry with him, but again given his youth and inexperience, it's something that I can give him a pass for. Regarding 3 point shooting, he does have certain shooting indicators. The 3s that he's made have all looked smooth and in rhythm, including a couple step backs and pull ups. Most importantly, he shoots mid 80s from the FT line indicating decent touch. This is something that we don't typically see when we look at prior rim-pressure prospects (Fox, DSJ, Ivey were all mid to high 70s). Given the variance of 3 point shooting at a young age and his shooting indicators, I think that Fears has a better chance than most of developing his shooting. If he does, you are looking at an athletic 3 level scorer with decent size and a good frame. That's a star.

7. Personality - this guy seems confident as hell and doesn't shrink from the moment. Will need to know more about his work ethic, but his rapid improvement from a relative unknown in high school to now indicates some degree of work ethic and ability to improve his game.


Many on this board have put forth the idea that this team still lacks rim pressure, an assertion that I agree with. Wemby is leaning into shooting, Vassell is at his core a jump shooter, and Castle as impressed as I've been with him does not have that ability to collapse a defense. I was hoping Topic could be that guy last year, but unfortunately he had his own warts (abysmal defense, questionable competition, below the rim athleticism, questionable physical dimensions) that came to the forefront on further inspection. I think that while Fears does not demonstrate the court vision and awareness that Topic did, he also is strong where Topic is weak and I have fewer concerns about his strengths translating. As the spurs are unlikely to be in position to draft Harper and even Jakucionis, Fears is the best chance that they have of drafting a two way impact player with star upside as a scorer and ball-handler. Hopefully the rest of the nba doesn't catch on, but at least 10 games into the season, he seems to be a top 5 pick hiding in plain sight.

[cutewizard]

Have not been paying attention. Has anyone mentioned Danny Wolf yet. Not bad for a 20 year old, 7-ft guard.

0eZUm5t8Oco

-----------------------------------------------

Wow, this is cool man!

Thanks! i'll try to find more stuff about him

[cutewizard]

Woooooooooooooooooooooow, this is one talented being!

Point Center/Forward! He could anchor the second unit ...........


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1WWv1DnOYA

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVgDTbcrwPg

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf6NKwAk6Vk

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ixaiy7LlMI

[jesterbobman]

That boy good.

Fears' movement reminds me of Shai a bit - a bit jerky jerky, but he's on balance at all times and then he can take advantage.

I think the only reason he's not much higher on mocks now is that he wasn't expected to be ready this year given his age, so he was on the radar for 2026. I don't think he'll be in school for two years. That initial thinking can colour opinions and people get anchored to a previous evaluation.

Vecenie didn't have him high (not in his top 50, therefore not on big board as a freshman)
Tankathon he's not even on the site
No Ceilings had him #28 in their recent mock

It seems like he's the type of guy who will go higher. 18 year olds putting up very good statistical seasons are rare.

I think he might still be in the Spurs range as a late lottery pick, as other teams will value bigger bodies and judge that in the modern NBA you can't have too many two-way wings (I don't love Knuppel as a lottery pick, but I get he's potentially a big wing shooter), and picking a PG as depth might be frowned upon by Owners / fans, if Fears and their PG can't play together / there's a worry of having two PGs and having size issues defensively.

[Mr. Body]

Fears will go top ten, possibly higher.

[SpursBills]

With all this talk about De'aaron Fox lately, I wanted to explore another hypothetical. baseline_bum proposed a trade that would send Jeremy Sochan and a first to the nets for Cam Johnson. As a big fan of Jeremy, I'd be against trading him away for another high level role player at first glance. That being said, I wanted to see if there was someone attainable for the Spurs that could make up for at least some of what he brings. Turns out, there might be in this year's draft.

First, let's talk about what Sochan brings. He's 6'8-6'9" who's very quick and agile for a forward, has excellent defensive instincts. Moving forward, I expect him to bring interior toughness, rebounding, elite perimeter defense especially against big wings, connector-type passing, enough ball handling ability to attack closeouts, as well as an edge personality wise. His weaknesses, aside from the obvious jump shooting concerns, involve his lack of secondary rim protection, a tendency to get bodied by bigger players, and a dependence on his teammates to get him points. He can differentiate himself from other defense-first guys due to his combination of ball handling and connective passing, which is something you don't get as much of in pure wing stoppers like Jaden McDaniels or Tari Eason.

Sochan's draft profile actually predicted the kind of player he'd turn into. He fits the "Draymond" archetype - big player with good stock numbers (3.2 BLK%, 2.9 STL%), good offensive rebounder (8.9 OREB%), passing potential (12.1 AST%). I'm a fan of players with this combination - first proposed by https://x.com/100guaranteed, it suggests high functional athleticism + feel predicting future precocious skill development.

https://postimg.cc/d7Hmmh7hhttps://i.postimg.cc/LXRCSf23/Sochan-Bart.jpg

Unsurprisingly, even at age 21, he's turned into a premier perimeter defender but who predictably still struggles with his shot.

In this draft, the closest player to the "Draymond" archetype and who can potentially provide a lot of what Sochan currently provides is Collin Murray-Boyles.

I first started paying attention to CMB last year after this ridiculous block https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3PGaNB6bQ8
He came out of nowhere last year as an 18 year old freshman to play a key part in South Carolina way overachieving and making it to the tournament. He's a burly undersized forward 6'7" with a 7'+ wingspan who's an incredibly versatile defender and a strong interior scorer with a limited jump shot. So far this season his numbers (as well as his size and build) are eerily similar to sophomore Draymond as they both appear to be around 6'7" 230+ lb forwards with 7'+ wingspans:

https://i.postimg.cc/RZ6bL4gK/CMB-Dray.jpg

His passing out of the post is excellent on tape and he seems to have better feel and touch than Sochan, even last year as a freshman. He averaged better numbers across the board when you compare their freshman seasons. He's fast enough to defend on the perimeter and strong enough to not get bodied inside. His post game is excellent although we will see if that translates in the pros given his height. On some of South Carolina's defensive possessions he's literally all over the floor, bumping his man off his spots, cutting off drives the baseline, coming over for a help-side block.

With regards to his role on the spurs, I would probably not spend a good pick on him if Sochan is around as their skillsets are too redundant. However, if Sochan were to be traded for, say, a tall wing shooter, he would be almost ideal to play the "mobile center" role in a lineup with an attacking guard, secondary creator, and 2 supersized wing shooters. What he potentially gives up in quickness on the perimeter he makes up for in strength and potential secondary rim protection. Additionally, since it seems like his shooting is very slow to develop, I think that most teams would be reluctant to spend a high lottery pick on him due to concerns that his game is antiquated and size concerns. However, his intelligence, feel, and athleticism make him a good bet to succeed moving forward. I can almost guarantee that Presti is all over this kid as he would be an almost glove-in-hand long term fit next to Chet however his fit on other teams may be more questionable. Fortunately, Wemby's evolution as a high volume shooter provides an avenue to draft this kid whose game probably best resembles Paul Millsap but whose numbers suggest he also has a certain amount of Draymond equity.

Even though I am loathe to trade Sochan, bum's trade does make some sense to me. I have more faith in CMB turning into a reasonable replacement for Sochan than I do of a late lottery wing this year turning into someone with Cam Johnson's gravity and game. To be fair, Jeremy has certain characteristics about him beyond the numbers that potentially predicts success. He's a somewhat dirty player who's willing to get under opponents' skin, and has been shown to be wiling to do whatever is necessary to succeed as evidenced by his free throw form. Both of these are distinct advantages over CMB, who just seems like a normal person and therefore may not be as likely to succeed. It's a dicey proposal but CMB being there potentially softens the blow for me a little bit. Let's see if he continues to improve throughout the season.

[Mr. Body]

Sochan and a first for Cam Johnson. You should be committed.

[cutewizard]

I like us to have our own Draymond, preferably with a light shooting touch

[cutewizard]

With all this talk about De'aaron Fox lately, I wanted to explore another hypothetical. baseline_bum proposed a trade that would send Jeremy Sochan and a first to the nets for Cam Johnson. As a big fan of Jeremy, I'd be against trading him away for another high level role player at first glance. That being said, I wanted to see if there was someone attainable for the Spurs that could make up for at least some of what he brings. Turns out, there might be in this year's draft.

First, let's talk about what Sochan brings. He's 6'8-6'9" who's very quick and agile for a forward, has excellent defensive instincts. Moving forward, I expect him to bring interior toughness, rebounding, elite perimeter defense especially against big wings, connector-type passing, enough ball handling ability to attack closeouts, as well as an edge personality wise. His weaknesses, aside from the obvious jump shooting concerns, involve his lack of secondary rim protection, a tendency to get bodied by bigger players, and a dependence on his teammates to get him points. He can differentiate himself from other defense-first guys due to his combination of ball handling and connective passing, which is something you don't get as much of in pure wing stoppers like Jaden McDaniels or Tari Eason.

Sochan's draft profile actually predicted the kind of player he'd turn into. He fits the "Draymond" archetype - big player with good stock numbers (3.2 BLK%, 2.9 STL%), good offensive rebounder (8.9 OREB%), passing potential (12.1 AST%). I'm a fan of players with this combination - first proposed by https://x.com/100guaranteed, it suggests high functional athleticism + feel predicting future precocious skill development.

https://postimg.cc/d7Hmmh7hhttps://i.postimg.cc/LXRCSf23/Sochan-Bart.jpg

Unsurprisingly, even at age 21, he's turned into a premier perimeter defender but who predictably still struggles with his shot.

In this draft, the closest player to the "Draymond" archetype and who can potentially provide a lot of what Sochan currently provides is Collin Murray-Boyles.

I first started paying attention to CMB last year after this ridiculous block https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3PGaNB6bQ8
He came out of nowhere last year as an 18 year old freshman to play a key part in South Carolina way overachieving and making it to the tournament. He's a burly undersized forward 6'7" with a 7'+ wingspan who's an incredibly versatile defender and a strong interior scorer with a limited jump shot. So far this season his numbers (as well as his size and build) are eerily similar to sophomore Draymond as they both appear to be around 6'7" 230+ lb forwards with 7'+ wingspans:

https://i.postimg.cc/RZ6bL4gK/CMB-Dray.jpg

His passing out of the post is excellent on tape and he seems to have better feel and touch than Sochan, even last year as a freshman. He averaged better numbers across the board when you compare their freshman seasons. He's fast enough to defend on the perimeter and strong enough to not get bodied inside. His post game is excellent although we will see if that translates in the pros given his height. On some of South Carolina's defensive possessions he's literally all over the floor, bumping his man off his spots, cutting off drives the baseline, coming over for a help-side block.

With regards to his role on the spurs, I would probably not spend a good pick on him if Sochan is around as their skillsets are too redundant. However, if Sochan were to be traded for, say, a tall wing shooter, he would be almost ideal to play the "mobile center" role in a lineup with an attacking guard, secondary creator, and 2 supersized wing shooters. What he potentially gives up in quickness on the perimeter he makes up for in strength and potential secondary rim protection. Additionally, since it seems like his shooting is very slow to develop, I think that most teams would be reluctant to spend a high lottery pick on him due to concerns that his game is antiquated and size concerns. However, his intelligence, feel, and athleticism make him a good bet to succeed moving forward. I can almost guarantee that Presti is all over this kid as he would be an almost glove-in-hand long term fit next to Chet however his fit on other teams may be more questionable. Fortunately, Wemby's evolution as a high volume shooter provides an avenue to draft this kid whose game probably best resembles Paul Millsap but whose numbers suggest he also has a certain amount of Draymond equity.

Even though I am loathe to trade Sochan, bum's trade does make some sense to me. I have more faith in CMB turning into a reasonable replacement for Sochan than I do of a late lottery wing this year turning into someone with Cam Johnson's gravity and game. To be fair, Jeremy has certain characteristics about him beyond the numbers that potentially predicts success. He's a somewhat dirty player who's willing to get under opponents' skin, and has been shown to be wiling to do whatever is necessary to succeed as evidenced by his free throw form. Both of these are distinct advantages over CMB, who just seems like a normal person and therefore may not be as likely to succeed. It's a dicey proposal but CMB being there potentially softens the blow for me a little bit. Let's see if he continues to improve throughout the season.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Very good post good Sir.....

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfjDUZDx0Xg

[onechance87]

Sochan and a first for Cam Johnson. You should be committed.

would be down

[Dejounte]

I’ve been a fan of CMB since last year. The main difference between him and Sochan is Sochan’s ability to keep up with guards on the perimeter. It is really unparalleled and not even Draymond in his prime did that. I don’t recall many players with Sochan’s size in the history of the game that could consistently switch and guard small players. It’s special, tbh.

[Mr. Body]

would be down

Yeah because Cam Johnson is this site's current John Collins.

[SpursBills]

I’ve been a fan of CMB since last year. The main difference between him and Sochan is Sochan’s ability to keep up with guards on the perimeter. It is really unparalleled and not even Draymond in his prime did that. I don’t recall many players with Sochan’s size in the history of the game that could consistently switch and guard small players. It’s special, tbh.

Agree with this completely. I think CMB is probably a better interior defender and gives you better secondary rim protection whereas Sochan is better on the perimeter. Do those two offset given CMB's likelihood of being a better passer? I don't know, but of all the guys in this particular draft I think he probably comes closest to reproducing current Sochan.

[onechance87]

Yeah because Cam Johnson is this site's current John Collins.

just think hes the best fit next fit next to wemby compared to our other fowards.

[exstatic]

Agree with this completely. I think CMB is probably a better interior defender and gives you better secondary rim protection whereas Sochan is better on the perimeter. Do those two offset given CMB's likelihood of being a better passer? I don't know, but of all the guys in this particular draft I think he probably comes closest to reproducing current Sochan.

Yeah, but you’d be starting over in the development cycle, marking time until his year 3 breakout in 2027-2028.

[Dejounte]

just think hes the best fit next fit next to wemby compared to our other fowards.

I don’t know how you can watch these games and think we need to remove our only interior player (since Wemby has established that at least half his game will be on the perimeter). It appears you only want perimeter players around Wemby, which will lead to us being massively outrebounded since there will be no interior players who box out, play physical, or rebound. You’ve seen this team have bad losses, you’ll probably see even worse ones if you replace an interior guy with another shooter in the lineup.

[Mr. Body]

Suddenly a guy who hasn't played a lick of NBA basketball is better than a guy turning into a really solid pro.

Never change, ST.

[rascal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfjDUZDx0Xg

He can easily replace Sochan. He looks to be quicker and with a longer reach, more athletic. Plays tough defense and looks smooth finishing around the rim.

Agree Spurs should trade Sochan for a wing that can shoot and draft this guy with their pick if they fall outside the top 10.

[rascal]

Suddenly a guy who hasn't played a lick of NBA basketball is better than a guy turning into a really solid pro.

Never change, ST.

You can say the same for any player entering next year's draft. You wouldn't trade Sochan for the top pick in next year's draft?

[exstatic]

You can say the same for any player entering next year's draft. You wouldn't trade Sochan for the top pick in next year's draft?

That’s not even close to the discussion at hand. We’re talking about trading Sochan for some unnamed shooting wing, and basically starting over with CMB, and hoping he develops into a player as good as Sochan 2 1/2 years from now. He absolutely will not be as good as current Sochan from the get go.

[Mr. Body]

You can say the same for any player entering next year's draft. You wouldn't trade Sochan for the top pick in next year's draft?

For ColinTuckerBOyles or whatever the fuck his name is? That's who you think the top pick is?

Is this site clinically insane?

[rascal]

For ColinTuckerBOyles or whatever the fuck his name is? That's who you think the top pick is?

Is this site clinically insane?

I never said he was the top pick.

You made a comment that "Suddenly a guy who hasn't played a lick of NBA basketball is better than a guy turning into a solid pro."

That can apply to any player coming out of next year's draft.

[tonight...you]

I never said he was the top pick.

You made a comment that "Suddenly a guy who hasn't played a lick of NBA basketball is better than a guy turning into a solid pro."

That can apply to any player coming out of next year's draft.
You obliterate the context of the argument doing that.

[Mr. Body]

I never said he was the top pick.

You made a comment that "Suddenly a guy who hasn't played a lick of NBA basketball is better than a guy turning into a solid pro."

That can apply to any player coming out of next year's draft.

I can't even understand what the fuck you're talking about.

[scott]

Agree with this completely. I think CMB is probably a better interior defender and gives you better secondary rim protection whereas Sochan is better on the perimeter. Do those two offset given CMB's likelihood of being a better passer? I don't know, but of all the guys in this particular draft I think he probably comes closest to reproducing current Sochan.

I have an idea...

https://thealliefrost.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/both.jpg

[SpursBills]

I have an idea...

https://thealliefrost.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/both.jpg

:lol Honestly, the fact that rascal and Dejounte both think this guy is good is pretty much proof that he's going to be a future superstar. I'm game for having both

[Mr. Body]

I mean,

1) If you think a player has a skillset already on the team and like him, you don't trade away that current player and hope the new player can fill in. That's a bit nuts. You draft him and push the player you have to ensure you're covered.
2) Trading Sochan + a first for Cam is just ridiculously fucking nuts. C'mon. Cam Johnson is a 28 year old role player.

[pad300]

I figure that CMB is going no higher than 11th, and is more likely to be after 20th... If we really think CMB is going to be a useful piece (of which I am doubtful), it's very likely we need no trade to get him...

[BackHome]

Yeah he will be there for our first pick but maybe not for our second first pick if we keep it.

[Bruno]

McNeeley has played better lately. Fit-wise, he is the obvious pick for Spurs

[onechance87]

McNeeley has played better lately. Fit-wise, he is the obvious pick for Spurs

what about kon knueppel...Seen his name metioned with the spurs.

[BackHome]

Looking at our first pick I think these will be guys we looking at:

Nolan Traore - He is dropping as others guys like Fears and Philon are rising for PG
McNeeley - We need to have the 10th or 11th pick to draft him his shooting looks sweet and perfect fit and need
Ben Saraf - Not sure about him but he gives us a guard who has nice handles and can do a little bit of everything
Knuppel - He is handling the rock a lot more so he is not set shooting like some other players with higher 3 ball %

[mo7888]

Looking at our first pick I think these will be guys we looking at:

Nolan Traore - He is dropping as others guys like Fears and Philon are rising for PG
McNeeley - We need to have the 10th or 11th pick to draft him his shooting looks sweet and perfect fit and need
Ben Saraf - Not sure about him but he gives us a guard who has nice handles and can do a little bit of everything
Knuppel - He is handling the rock a lot more so he is not set shooting like some other players with higher 3 ball %

I like McNeeley alot. He's 17 on the tankathon board, so he could be there with our pick.

[scott]

Having a tough time deciding what to make of this draft. I appears to have 4-5 really strong prospects at the top, but not the "generational" talent that it had once billed. At this point, I don't think Flagg is necessarily even as good a prospect as Paolo was, though he's not too far behind. It's certainly not looking like the Bron/Melo/Wade/Bosh draft.

Harper has been very good and there probably deserves to be a little debate over the #1 pick. Bailey has some weaknesses that are coming to the surface, but is still proving very good but not "would be #1 in any other draft" good. Egor and Kasparas have been great. Not sure what to make of VJ. Tre Johnson is impressive. After that... from about 8-15 or so looks like any other draft with some interesting prospects, and then IDK... seems to fall off. That might just be because it's so early in the process though. Looking forward to some of our resident draft gurus going deeper.

[jesterbobman]

Part of the conversation coming down is that the overhyping of prospects as generational. You should have a generational prospect once a generation (If I'm very generous, 1 per position per 15 years ( a decent length / short NBA career), not every draft, so once every 3 years, if I'm really pushing it).

Flagg has been really good still, but he's a A+ defensive PF, and a pretty good offensive player, who might not be an NBA #1 offensively. Harper has been a good power guard, and could be a legit big creator. Kasparas, Egor are also solid bets for that role, which is really valuable. At this point, I think I'd have all 4 of those above the top of the 2024 draft board (For me, Sarr and Shepherd - 1 out of 2, I still think Sarr has a strong case of being the best prospect, but being clear that I can be wrong).

Fears, VJ (Can't shoot, monster defensive metrics and he was good on O in Olympic qualifying), Tre give mid - late lottery guard options, Maluach, Queen, Newell, CMB give a range of big depth who are good and young. Someone will take Ace Bailey high (I'm getting further and further away from interested).

If we don't have lottery luck, and got Fears (too low in mocks at the moment, but probably should be in the 5 - 14 range and might be within reach of our natural pick), Newell (typically mocked around 8 - 12) from our picks now, I'd be ecstatic.

[Mr. Body]

I never bought the Flagg hype, seemed pretty Scoot level, although he's better than Scoot. Right now Harper looks like your #1.

I don't think it's a great draft overall. It's actually looking kinda iffy to me. Better than last year though by a good bit.

I expect conference play to show us more, players rising and so on. The Spurs might have enough to stab down and grab a non Flagg/Harper player they want. Maybe. Or just settle with a role player or two.

Tre Johnson, Egor Demin, Kasparas Jakucionis are the supposedly top 8 or top 10 guys that most interest me right now. For supposed role player types, Kon, Liam for shooters. Derik Queen for a change-of-pace big. The player I might want to watch the most is Fears. I think he gets into top 10 contention easily though. I guess Tre, Fears and Kasparas have pulled me the most but right now no one is that exciting.

[exstatic]

Part of the conversation coming down is that the overhyping of prospects as generational. You should have a generational prospect once a generation (If I'm very generous, 1 per position per 15 years ( a decent length / short NBA career), not every draft, so once every 3 years, if I'm really pushing it).

Flagg has been really good still, but he's a A+ defensive PF, and a pretty good offensive player, who might not be an NBA #1 offensively. Harper has been a good power guard, and could be a legit big creator. Kasparas, Egor are also solid bets for that role, which is really valuable. At this point, I think I'd have all 4 of those above the top of the 2024 draft board (For me, Sarr and Shepherd - 1 out of 2, I still think Sarr has a strong case of being the best prospect, but being clear that I can be wrong).

Fears, VJ (Can't shoot, monster defensive metrics and he was good on O in Olympic qualifying), Tre give mid - late lottery guard options, Maluach, Queen, Newell, CMB give a range of big depth who are good and young. Someone will take Ace Bailey high (I'm getting further and further away from interested).

If we don't have lottery luck, and got Fears (too low in mocks at the moment, but probably should be in the 5 - 14 range and might be within reach of our natural pick), Newell (typically mocked around 8 - 12) from our picks now, I'd be ecstatic.
In the last 20 years or so, there have been three generational prospects: LeBron, Zion, and Wemby. New Orleans is proof that even if you get one, you’re not guaranteed that they’ll pan out into an all time player.

To many people misuse the term generational prospect, using it any time there is a clear #1 pick.

[heyheymymy]

McNeeley has played better lately. Fit-wise, he is the obvious pick for Spurs

Spurs aiming for a team UCONN of sorts, kind of like New York Knicks assembling team Nova.

[pad300]

In the last 20 years or so, there have been three generational prospects: LeBron, Zion, and Wemby. New Orleans is proof that even if you get one, you’re not guaranteed that they’ll pan out into an all time player.

To many people misuse the term generational prospect, using it any time there is a clear #1 pick.

????
DONCIC?

[exstatic]

????
DONCIC?

Nope. He’s very, very good, and probably should have gone 1st, but you can imagine other players like him coming along. There has never been another LeBron,and there likely will never be another Wemby. They are one of one.

[LeBowen]

Nope. He’s very, very good, and probably should have gone 1st, but you can imagine other players like him coming along. There has never been another LeBron,and there likely will never be another Wemby. They are one of one.

Doncic was by far the best ever European prospect.
Noone else comes close to his teenage achievements in Euroleague.
It's just that he was a skilled prospect and not a freak athlete.
Skilled prospects usually don't develop ahead of the curve.

I never fully bought into the Zion hype. Amazing prospect, but we're still talking about a forward with no jumpshot (other than his debutcagainst the Spurs) and bad defense.
I'd say Oden was a better prospect, dominated college with a broken hand.

[scott]

In the last 20 years or so, there have been three generational prospects: LeBron, Zion, and Wemby. New Orleans is proof that even if you get one, you’re not guaranteed that they’ll pan out into an all time player.

To many people misuse the term generational prospect, using it any time there is a clear #1 pick.

I'm pretty sure you're Offender #1 when it comes to hyping up the "generational" talents of Cooper Flagg and Cam Boozer years in advance. Will be hilarious if Dylan Harper and AJ Dybantsa end up going #1 in each.

[jesterbobman]

I think you could say Shaq, Duncan, LeBron, Oden/Durant (More marginal, but both those guys were AWESOME in College), Davis, KAT (I get why not, but the Unicorn big who was a good defensive player in College), Luka(Didn't go first, so not universal, but Euroleague MVP coming in, absolute stud prospect that was obvious at the time and overthought), Zion (Great defensively in College, hasn't translated), Wemby over the last 30 years.

The NBA is moving away from purely being dominated by bigs as there's more and more of a mix of impact from smalls and perimeter play, but that's been harder to scout at the top- short range touch, shooting development, reaction speed, hip flexibility, BB IQ development, screen angles taken and communication with bigs to set...are a lot harder to scout than "that boy big".

[exstatic]

I'm pretty sure you're Offender #1 when it comes to hyping up the "generational" talents of Cooper Flagg and Cam Boozer years in advance. Will be hilarious if Dylan Harper and AJ Dybantsa end up going #1 in each.

You’re dead wrong on Flagg. I’ve never hyped him as generational, and am not sure he’s even the best in this class. I’d probably go Harper if making the decision.

I am on the Cam Boozer train, though. He was beasting on the same competition that the Thompsons were barely coasting through. He was 15, and they were 20. He’s not generational,though. His archetype is something like Banchero.

[Seventyniner]

In terms of pre-draft hype, Doncic can't be included in the list with LeBron/AD/Zion/Wemby cause he wasn't the unanimous no-brainer #1 pick. If any of those other four guys had not been picked #1 it would have caused huge waves at the time.

[LeBowen]

In terms of pre-draft hype, Doncic can't be included in the list with LeBron/AD/Zion/Wemby cause he wasn't the unanimous no-brainer #1 pick. If any of those other four guys had not been picked #1 it would have caused huge waves at the time.

He wasn't an unanimous #1 pick because he was a foreigner and domestic media is full of casuals who don't know shit about basketball.
A 17 year old being the first option in the clutch on a team full of greats is unheard of.
Since Shaq, Lebron was the only player who deserved more hype than Luka. Then came Wemby.


Anyhow, someone mentioned they want Flagg in NOLA, I want him in Utah just for the mainstream media meltdown when Mormons get to draft the great white hope. :lmao

[spurraider21]

He can easily replace Sochan. He looks to be quicker and with a longer reach, more athletic. Plays tough defense and looks smooth finishing around the rim.

Agree Spurs should trade Sochan for a wing that can shoot and draft this guy with their pick if they fall outside the top 10.
you could have same the same thing about jarace walker when he was drafted, but he hasnt panned out

[BackHome]

I am really hoping we can get someone who could take the starting SF position and other picks to find legit backups who may be able to start in a few years. For me I am just trying to find player better then Collins, Branham, Ingram, and Tre, and I think we can do that with this draft.

First Picks:
Asa Newel - PF - 6’11- I really like his game and he can backup Sochan at PF or Wemby at Center
Traore - PG - 6’4 - I am kind of torn as he looked good but stock is falling due to his shooting and rim finishing
Liam McNeeley - SF -6’7 - Perfect fit for us

Atlanta Pick:
Ben Saraf - PG/SG - 6’6 - A ball handling guard I think he could work really well with Castle and Wemby
Noa Essengue - SF/PF - 6’9 - One of the youngest players betting on potential like Traore
Hugo Gonzales - SF - 6’7 - He hasn’t gotten much playing time but did have a good game 14pts I still like his potential

Second Round: I am looking at seasoned college/International players and would like a big to develop
Kam Jones - SG -6’6 - a good player who seems to be a clutch player
Nique Clifford - PG/SG - 6’6 - another older vet who game has really improved reminds me of White
Danny Wolf - C - 7’0 - I really like his handles and he is a good rebounder lots to work with skill wise
Bogoljub Markovic - PF - 6’11 - Has good handles and plays fast not a bad shooter either
Maxime Raynaud - C - 7’1 - Has nice outside game need to add 15pds of muscle which I think he could

* I think Fears and Philon are going to move up to lottery and VJ maybe dropping

[Bruno]

^ Raynaud studying path is quite interesting.

French prospects, when they are about 14 years old, usually go to basketball oriented high school. In these high schools, teenagers studies with a specific schedule and play a lot of basketball. The basketball side is managed by a professional team or even directly by french basketball federation.

Raynaud turned down going in these high schools. He instead went to, arguably, the best academic high school in France (Henry IV) and prioritized his studies. As a result he played way less basketball than other french prospects between 14 and 18 years old. He then picked Stanford not for the basketball program but also the their high level academic cursus.

Raynaud being somewhat late in his development is understandable given his story. His main issue is that he isn't a rim protector. For Spurs, do we want to have that kind of player to backup Wembanyama?

[exstatic]

^ Raynaud studying path is quite interesting.

French prospects, when they are about 14 years old, usually go to basketball oriented high school. In these high schools, teenagers studies with a specific schedule and play a lot of basketball. The basketball side is managed by a professional team or even directly by french basketball federation.

Raynaud turned down going in these high schools. He instead went to, arguably, the best academic high school in France (Henry IV) and prioritized his studies. As a result he played way less basketball than other french prospects between 14 and 18 years old. He then picked Stanford not for the basketball program but also the their high level academic cursus.

Raynaud being somewhat late in his development is understandable given his story. His main issue is that he isn't a rim protector. For Spurs, do we want to have that kind of player to backup Wembanyama?

I’m not trying to denigrate the young man, but it sounds like basketball is pretty far down his totem pole, and I want no part of that.

It reminds me of a running back out of Ohio State, Robert Smith. He really wanted to be a doctor, so he played for only 7 NFL seasons, quitting after being selected for his second ProBowl in three years. While it’s probably better for society to have another doctor, it’s not better for the Minnesota Vikings.

[Dejounte]

Harrison Barnes is a forward who can get to the rim, post up, and shoot 3’s. His switchability is OK, much better than your traditional C’s like Collins or Bassey (which is probably what matters most to the Spurs). He’s 6’9” or 6’8”.

^ that’s the archetype people should be looking for in the draft for backup C’s tbh.

Seems the Spurs would play Egor Demin at the C if they were able to draft him.

I don’t think CMB, Newell, Derik Queen, Malauch are in play at all now.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/NQYH3olpBbQ?feature=shared

I’m putting all my bets on Karaban to be the Spurs’ 1st round draft pick. He’s going to be a forward that slides to C when Wemby sits.

if Karaban was plugged into the current 9 man lineup, he’d replace Keldon:

PG: Paul/ Tre
SG: Vassell/ Castle (slides to PG)
SF: Barnes (slides to PF when Sochan sits)/ Champagnie
PF: Sochan/ Karaban (slides to C when Wemby sits)
C: Wemby

[mo7888]

https://youtu.be/NQYH3olpBbQ?feature=shared

I’m putting all my bets on Karaban to be the Spurs’ 1st round draft pick. He’s going to be a forward that slides to C when Wemby sits.

if Karaban was plugged into the current 9 man lineup, he’d replace Keldon:

PG: Paul/ Tre
SG: Vassell/ Castle (slides to PG)
SF: Barnes (slides to PF when Sochan sits)/ Champagnie
PF: Sochan/ Karaban (slides to C when Wemby sits)
C: Wemby

I'm not sure Karaban would go that high with any other team, but he does fit here. I'm not ready to pick a guy at this point, but guys I think will be in discussion for our top 2 picks where they are currently projected are:

McNeely
Fland
Riley
Karaban
Gonzales

I could see a world where we trade Devin and slide Castle into that spot and draft Fland to play alongside him.

[Mr. Body]

I'm not sure Karaban would go that high with any other team, but he does fit here. I'm not ready to pick a guy at this point, but guys I think will be in discussion for our top 2 picks where they are currently projected are:

McNeely
Fland
Riley
Karaban
Gonzales

I could see a world where we trade Devin and slide Castle into that spot and draft Fland to play alongside him.

The propensity of this board to think that you can just draft a guy and have him slide in to where an actual NBA player is playing astounds me.

[exstatic]

I'm not sure Karaban would go that high with any other team, but he does fit here. I'm not ready to pick a guy at this point, but guys I think will be in discussion for our top 2 picks where they are currently projected are:

McNeely
Fland
Riley
Karaban
Gonzales

I could see a world where we trade Devin and slide Castle into that spot and draft Fland to play alongside him.

Karaban is a smart player with some real good qualities, but he’s a pretty clear second rounder, and is mocked there by most. Drafting him in the first would likely lead you down the Chris Duarte/Podiemski/Knecht path where they have a good to great rookie year, but then fall off a fucking cliff because their skill set was overrated by staying in college forever, and overmatching 18-19 year olds.

[Mr. Body]

Karaban is a smart player with some real good qualities, but he’s a pretty clear second rounder, and is mocked there by most. Drafting him in the first would likely lead you down the Chris Duarte/Podiemski/Knecht path where they have a good to great rookie year, but then fall off a fucking cliff because their skill set was overrated by staying in college forever, and overmatching 18-19 year olds.

To me Karaban is more of a Jacquez type to go in the 20s and be pretty effective.

[mo7888]

The propensity of this board to think that you can just draft a guy and have him slide in to where an actual NBA player is playing astounds me.

Your assumption that I'm talking about sliding Fland into a starting spot on Day 1 astounds me.

[mo7888]

Karaban is a smart player with some real good qualities, but he’s a pretty clear second rounder, and is mocked there by most. Drafting him in the first would likely lead you down the Chris Duarte/Podiemski/Knecht path where they have a good to great rookie year, but then fall off a fucking cliff because their skill set was overrated by staying in college forever, and overmatching 18-19 year olds.

I think he'll be higher than a 2nd rounder by draft time (probably 20-25). He's not who you puck of you're looking for upside, but he's a quality rotation potential guy who fits if you have your main pieces in place or at least have a path to having them in place.

[Mal]

Atlanta Pick:
Ben Saraf - PG/SG - 6’6 - A ball handling guard I think he could work really well with Castle and Wemby


I want Saraf so badly

[Strategic]

I’m regularly seeing timelines emphasized on this site. This draft I think choosing a more mature player would be ok. I’d like to see the Spurs draft someone 6’10” that can hit a free throw and make a layup, and not so raw. Oh, and play D.

[Mr. Body]

Your assumption that I'm talking about sliding Fland into a starting spot on Day 1 astounds me.

Nah, that's not it.

It's this idea that you trade away a player while drafting his ostensible replacement. How does this make sense in anyone's head. It makes no sense on any level.

[mo7888]

Nah, that's not it.

It's this idea that you trade away a player while drafting his ostensible replacement. How does this make sense in anyone's head. It makes no sense on any level.

I said nothing about trading a player to draft his replacement. Trading Devin is to have Castle be his replacement.

[scott]

Wasn't very impressed with Karaban when I saw him up close and personal. Would be a fine SRP though (but seems like he'll be more in that late first, early second kind of range). Just strikes me as the stereotypical try-hard white guy archetype. A taller Doug McBuckets with less of a deadeye. That could be a useful addition to our bench with an SRP. Kind of a Joel Wisenheimer kind of pick.

[exstatic]

Wasn't very impressed with Karaban when I saw him up close and personal. Would be a fine SRP though (but seems like he'll be more in that late first, early second kind of range). Just strikes me as the stereotypical try-hard white guy archetype. A taller Doug McBuckets with less of a deadeye. That could be a useful addition to our bench with an SRP. Kind of a Joel Wisenheimer kind of pick.

He’s 6’8”, shoots 42.1% from 3, and blocks 1.8 shots per game. Doesn’t sound like Wieskamp to me.

In addition, he’s coming out of the UConn program, so he knows how to play. If he weren’t going to be well past 22 YO on draft night, I’d say he’d go in the lottery. His age will limit his upside, but he does have an interesting and varied array of tools,so maybe he’ll have enough when he comes into the league to stick for a while even if he doesn’t develop any more.

[BackHome]

Yeah, I think he will be picked in the range of 24 to 32 and he would be a good bench player for a good team.

[scott]

He’s 6’8”, shoots 42.1% from 3, and blocks 1.8 shots per game. Doesn’t sound like Wieskamp to me.



Wieskamp was a junior coming out of college, 6'6", shot 46% from 3 and averaged 1 steal per game. Different types of players and builds, but the appeal would be largely focused around the same characteristic: 3P shooting. (Also, Karaban's blocks kind of came out of nowhere this year, I wonder what spurred that. Wonder if he is being put in different defensive situations. Obviously UConn lost Clingan. I was impressed by Tarris Reed in person, but he definitely doesn't have Clingan's interior presence)

I'll admit I've watching exactly 1 UCONN game this year (the one I was at personally) but I watched him and McNeely both pretty intently. Karaban came off to me as comparatively unathletic (far less so than McNeely) but put in your typical upperclassman leader kind of performance... the kind that usually doesn't translate to NBA success because it is based mostly on game smarts and physical maturity in comparison to everyone else on the court. These aren't bad things, but the reason that upperclassmen (like the ones you mentioned) typically look good their rookie seasons is because they aren't going through the same learning curve as younger rookies who eventually surpass them because they're just better, more skilled athletes.

So, that's what I mean by a "Joe Wieskamp" type pick - a well-shooting upperclassman with limited ceiling. Worth taking a flyer on, but only in the second round for me (but like I said, he'll probably go late first, early second).

If he were 19, I still don't think he'd be a lottery candidate. At that point, you're comparing him against McNeely, who appears significantly quicker and more athletic to me.

[Mr. Body]

Karaban vs. Wieskamp in their junior years:

https://tankathon.com/players/compare?players=alex-karaban--joe-wieskamp

Karaban is a tick better in advanced categories. I didn't realize Wieskamp shot .677 from the line that year, a good bit worse than his previous years.

I remember Wieskamp was advertised in some quarters as a budget Corey Kispert. Here's Kispert v. Karaban v. Wieskamp v. McNeeley:

https://tankathon.com/players/compare?players=alex-karaban--liam-mcneeley--corey-kispert--joe-wieskamp

Those in their draft years. McNeeley is a good bit worse, but is two to three years younger than the rest of them. Honestly, I don't think the archetype is great, although a guy like Gradey Dick has popped.

From what I've seen from Karaban, he's just alright as a prospect to me. He has won a couple college championships though.

[Dejounte]

Riley Minix is another guy that fits the mold I described earlier and who the Spurs could thrust into that backup C role. This would allow them to focus on talent on the guard/ wing spots in the draft. This actually makes more sense since backup C shouldn’t be a heavy investment, and they should continue shuffling through guys until they get a Champagnie type find for that spot.

[Dejounte]

And actually, Harrison Ingram fits that role too… hmmm…

[exstatic]

Wieskamp was a junior coming out of college, 6'6", shot 46% from 3 and averaged 1 steal per game. Different types of players and builds, but the appeal would be largely focused around the same characteristic: 3P shooting. (Also, Karaban's blocks kind of came out of nowhere this year, I wonder what spurred that. Wonder if he is being put in different defensive situations. Obviously UConn lost Clingan. I was impressed by Tarris Reed in person, but he definitely doesn't have Clingan's interior presence)

I'll admit I've watching exactly 1 UCONN game this year (the one I was at personally) but I watched him and McNeely both pretty intently. Karaban came off to me as comparatively unathletic (far less so than McNeely) but put in your typical upperclassman leader kind of performance... the kind that usually doesn't translate to NBA success because it is based mostly on game smarts and physical maturity in comparison to everyone else on the court. These aren't bad things, but the reason that upperclassmen (like the ones you mentioned) typically look good their rookie seasons is because they aren't going through the same learning curve as younger rookies who eventually surpass them because they're just better, more skilled athletes.

So, that's what I mean by a "Joe Wieskamp" type pick - a well-shooting upperclassman with limited ceiling. Worth taking a flyer on, but only in the second round for me (but like I said, he'll probably go late first, early second).

If he were 19, I still don't think he'd be a lottery candidate. At that point, you're comparing him against McNeely, who appears significantly quicker and more athletic to me.

I would want to use a SRP to get him, and sign him to a 2+1 deal, so that unlike a FRP, you don’t have to make the choice for year 3 immediately after year 1. If he stiffs in year 2, you cut him loose. If he’s OK, you,pick up year 3, and you have Bird rights. It’s the contract structure and pick up dates that makes me not want to use even a later first on him.

[Dejounte]

Sorry to go cutewizard on you guys but here’s my third and last consecutive post:

Brian Wright has pursued/ drafted super versatile guys like Sochan, Castle, Primo… i think that’s what they’ll do again in this draft.

[onechance87]

Sorry to go cutewizard (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=19861) on you guys but here’s my third and last consecutive post:

Brian Wright has pursued/ drafted super versatile guys like Sochan, Castle, Primo… i think that’s what they’ll do again in this draft.

I hope not........I will be emailing them of who i think they should draft this summer.

[DAF86]

Sorry to go cutewizard on you guys but here’s my third and last consecutive post:

Brian Wright has pursued/ drafted super versatile guys like Sochan, Castle, Primo… i think that’s what they’ll do again in this draft.

They need to drsft someone with at least a semblance of a shot. Sochan and Castle have turned out about as well as expected yet we can't play them together because our spacing will go to shit. At some point we need folks that can make jumpers.

[scott]

I would want to use a SRP to get him, and sign him to a 2+1 deal, so that unlike a FRP, you don’t have to make the choice for year 3 immediately after year 1. If he stiffs in year 2, you cut him loose. If he’s OK, you,pick up year 3, and you have Bird rights. It’s the contract structure and pick up dates that makes me not want to use even a later first on him.

I think that would be a fantastic use of an SRP. Would like the team to do a little more of that sort of thing. Even if you want to cut him after year 1 in a structure like this, it isn't a killer.

[Thomas82]

I'll be happy if we end up with either Asa Newell or Danny Wolf wearing black and silver next year.

[SouthernFried]

The most glaring and obvious need, is for a big man.

A solid brute of a man that is big, strong and a force in the middle. When Wemby is not on the court...we are one of the worst in the league on interior defense.

And Wemby's body is not long for this world defending the Embids...even he can get sneeky offensive fouls on them, he needs someone else to take that punishment...and maybe dish a little as well.

We have no one like that. We are a very soft team. In a very soft NBA...so there is that.

[cutewizard]

Sorry to go cutewizard (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=19861) on you guys but here’s my third and last consecutive post:

Brian Wright has pursued/ drafted super versatile guys like Sochan, Castle, Primo… i think that’s what they’ll do again in this draft.

-----------------------------------------------

hahahaha

[LeBowen]

The most glaring and obvious need, is for a big man.

A solid brute of a man that is big, strong and a force in the middle. When Wemby is not on the court...we are one of the worst in the league on interior defense.

And Wemby's body is not long for this world defending the Embids...even he can get sneeky offensive fouls on them, he needs someone else to take that punishment...and maybe dish a little as well.

We have no one like that. We are a very soft team. In a very soft NBA...so there is that.

Backup bigs are easy to find and we'd want someone experienced who can be relied on when we start competing.
Using a FRP for a backup big when we have so many other needs that are way more difficult to fill via trades/FA would be a bad decision.

[rankingtear]

The most glaring and obvious need, is for a big man.

A solid brute of a man that is big, strong and a force in the middle. When Wemby is not on the court...we are one of the worst in the league on interior defense.

And Wemby's body is not long for this world defending the Embids...even he can get sneeky offensive fouls on them, he needs someone else to take that punishment...and maybe dish a little as well.

We have no one like that. We are a very soft team. In a very soft NBA...so there is that.

Embiid is in another conference.

[SouthernFried]

Well, a Big is our most obvious need. It that is easy to fill, why haven't we?

Not talking trash bigs like we have. We already filled out trash bigs roster.

[SouthernFried]

Embid was just an example...

[LeBowen]

Well, a Big is our most obvious need. It that is easy to fill, why haven't we?

Not talking trash bigs like we have. We already filled out trash bigs roster.

Because they thought Collins wouldn't be complete garbage.
Valanciunas is on a $10M a season deal up until 2027. Wouldn't even take a FRP, just a handful of SRPs or maybe a couple of our scrubs like Wesley or Branham if they're interested.
But for some reason PATFO isn't making the move.
Or we could straight up trade Tre for him.

[Pauleta14]

Backup bigs are easy to find and we'd want someone experienced who can be relied on when we start competing.
Using a FRP for a backup big when we have so many other needs that are way more difficult to fill via trades/FA would be a bad decision.

I'd love us to go for Brook Lopez next summer

[SpursBills]

https://youtu.be/NQYH3olpBbQ?feature=shared

I’m putting all my bets on Karaban to be the Spurs’ 1st round draft pick. He’s going to be a forward that slides to C when Wemby sits.

if Karaban was plugged into the current 9 man lineup, he’d replace Keldon:

PG: Paul/ Tre
SG: Vassell/ Castle (slides to PG)
SF: Barnes (slides to PF when Sochan sits)/ Champagnie
PF: Sochan/ Karaban (slides to C when Wemby sits)
C: Wemby

Of this type of player, do you prefer Karaban or Noah Penda? Karaban the better shooter right now, Penda seems to be more athletic and stronger. Karaban maybe more NBA ready, but Penda's not doing too bad in French league himself. Both mocked late first to early second.

[DAF86]

Whoever they draft, they better avoid non-shooting prospects. For all intents and purposes, Sochan has been a hit. He has fulfilled what was expected of him as a prospect, yet he becomes a huge liability at times with his inability to shoot; and the truth is that with each passing game I'm more and more convinced that he shouldn't be a part of the core going forward.

Castle can pretty much follow the same path if he doesn't develop his shot. At the end of the day, you need to make shots to win in this league.

[Bruno]

Yep, Spurs can't really add non shooters on their team with Sochan and Castle already here.

Shooting is actually a big issue for the top international prospects in this draft.
Their 3 points stats for this season:
Nolan Traoré: 25/93 (.269)
Ben Saraf: 17/58 (.293)
Noa Essengue: 10/46 (.217)
Hugo Gonzalez: 6/27 (.222)

While it seems that it will be strong draft, there are quite a lot of prospects with a questionable/bad jumpshot. For example, if you take tankathon big board, 11 of the top 20 players have poor 3 points shooting numbers.

[objective]

Who are the players to target from 20 to 25 with the ATL pick?

[Pauleta14]

We need a Sochan replacement. We can't build a solid team with such a low IQ/weak link in the SL

[rankingtear]

We need a Sochan replacement. We can't build a solid team with such a low IQ/weak link in the SL

Unless we get Flagg I don't really see any Sochan replacement in this draft. There are only 2 players in the league with that defensive versatility.

[exstatic]

Without Sochan last night, both Ant and DeVincenzo go off, and we get blown out. Jeremy held Ant to 14 points.

[Pauleta14]

Unless we get Flagg I don't really see any Sochan replacement in this draft. There are only 2 players in the league with that defensive versatility.

I haven't studied much the next draft tbh but Sam Vecenie's podcast, who's opinion I value, seem to think it's quite a poor draft past the lottery, they strugle to make they mock past the 20th pick...

If it's not a rookie, it has to be via trade. Sochan is too small to play PF and not skilled enough to play SF...


Without Sochan last night, both Ant and DeVincenzo go off, and we get blown out. Jeremy held Ant to 14 points.

Of course he was important and he's not the reason we lost anyway. Mitch is the main one to blame imo

That's the scary part about this roster, Sochan is an uncontested starter... smh

[CorrectCrusader]

I think JT Toppin is super underrated rn

[Knoxxx]

Rebounding Woes Cost Spurs Another Close Game, This Time Against Minnesota (https://www.si.com/nba/spurs/news/rebounding-woes-cost-spurs-another-close-game-against-minnesota)

[BackHome]

The most glaring and obvious need, is for a big man.

A solid brute of a man that is big, strong and a force in the middle. When Wemby is not on the court...we are one of the worst in the league on interior defense.

And Wemby's body is not long for this world defending the Embids...even he can get sneeky offensive fouls on them, he needs someone else to take that punishment...and maybe dish a little as well.

We have no one like that. We are a very soft team. In a very soft NBA...so there is that.

A player that fits this would be Tomislav Ivisic - Illinois - 7’1, 255pds - Decent athlete can also hit the outside shot and has good hands. Averages - 15pts - 9rbs FT%733 - 3P% 385

[exstatic]

A player that fits this would be Tomislav Ivisic - Illinois - 7’1, 255pds - Decent athlete can also hit the outside shot and has good hands. Averages - 15pts - 9rbs FT%733 - 3P% 385

Both of the Ivisic twins have skills. Tomi is a better rebounder, but Zvon is a much better shooter, and blocks twice the shots per 36.

[stnick2261]

I was curious so I took the top 30 of Tankathon's Big Board and sorted them by 3pt%. Left side of the image is their BB order, right side is sorted for 3pt%. (I still like Demin and McNeeley, but falling off from Traore and starting to like Karaban now)

https://i.imgur.com/KQJ4FIn.jpeg