2024 NBA Draft Thread

[Mr. Body]

I think you are right. It’s actually not a bad scenario at all. I’m almost loathing the idea of the Spurs get #1 more.

I both don't want a top 1, 2, or maybe even 3 pick, plus I want two lottery picks.

And there are like two players I really like in an admittedly low moment I have for this draft right now.

[DAF86]

We have polarizing opinions on whom to pick at this point, I guess we will have to wait till the NCAA tournament is completed. As of now, we will keep watching where our targets are trending.

Picking someone because of what they do in the tournament would be repeating the mistake many teams have done over the years. The Spurs should already have a clear picture of who they want and don't let the hype of a small sample size change their opinion, tbh.

[objective]

Would an optimistic but fair comp for Shepperd be Fred Van Vleet?

FVV is only 6-0 with a 6-2 wingspan. Gets a lot of blocks this year, 0.8 per game. Majority of his points this year from 3.

Been both a point guard and a combo, starting with Lowry and listed at SG by basketball reference for a couple of years

One single charity case all star selection. Not a supreme passer but seems to get the job done, just overpaid

If Shepperd can get more physical on defense, why couldn't he be FVV but with better shooting? Seems like he can penetrate at the college level without a screen, something Primo couldn't

[alfahdlan]

Picking someone because of what they do in the tournament would be repeating the mistake many teams have done over the years. The Spurs should already have a clear picture of who they want and don't let the hype of a small sample size change their opinion, tbh.

Exactly my point. If what we’re doing here is a microosm of what the front office is doing, we clearly have targets at this point and let the hype of a sample size confirm it.

[Ariel]

Spurs could go a lot of different ways:
a) High floor, contribute now: Sheppard and Knecht
b) Compromise between fit & upside: Dillingham and Buzelis
c) Upside, bad fit: Sarr and Castle
d) High boom/bust: Collier and Holland
e) Need more evidence: Topic and Risacher
As of right now, I'm leaning b

[DAF86]

Would an optimistic but fair comp for Shepperd be Fred Van Vleet?

FVV is only 6-0 with a 6-2 wingspan. Gets a lot of blocks this year, 0.8 per game. Majority of his points this year from 3.

Been both a point guard and a combo, starting with Lowry and listed at SG by basketball reference for a couple of years

One single charity case all star selection. Not a supreme passer but seems to get the job done, just overpaid

If Shepperd can get more physical on defense, why couldn't he be FVV but with better shooting? Seems like he can penetrate at the college level without a screen, something Primo couldn't

That's actually a pretty good comparisson I haven't thought of before.

Their college stats are even somewhat similar, with the difference of VanVleet being a 4 year product.

Another example that indicates that playing multiple years in college doesn't mean that you have a limited ceiling. Even a 6 foot nothing 10 ppg scorer senior can get into the NBA, become a champion and all-star.

The closer we get to the draft, the more I'm leaning towards these high floor guys like Sheppard and Knecht. Just draft someone that would help Wemby from year one.

[TD 21]

Even a 6 foot nothing 10 ppg scorer senior can get into the NBA, become a champion and all-star.

:lmao Yeah, an illegitimate one.

[DAF86]

:lmao Yeah, an illegitimate one.

That's not the point. Legitimate all-star or not, the dude far exceeded expectations. I think we would be more than OK if we come out of this draft with the next Fred Van Vleet.

The ultimate point I'm trying to make is: Brian Wright might need to rethink a bit this strategy of drafting one and done projects that need a lot of development, just because they are supossed to have a higher ceiling, when guys that spend more years in college and show actual production end up having just as high of a ceiling, if not higher.

[TD 21]

That's not the point. Legitimate all-star or not, the dude far exceeded expectations. I think we would be more than OK if we come out of this draft with the next Fred Van Vleet.

The ultimate point I'm trying to make is: Brian Wright might need to rethink a bit this strategy of drafting one and done projects that need a lot of development, just because they are supossed to have a higher ceiling, when guys that spend more years in college and show actual production end up having just as high of a ceiling, if not higher.

:lmao Thinking I didn't get your point or that Wright, a relative neophyte, who is not the President of Basketball Operations, is unilaterally making decisions in an organization with two geezers who are considered to have about as much credibility with a franchise as any executives in history.

[objective]

Wright has been an assistant general manager or general manager in the NBA for almost 10 years

How many decades does he need to be taken seriously?

[DAF86]

:lmao Thinking I didn't get your point or that Wright, a relative neophyte, who is not the President of Basketball Operations, is unilaterally making decisions in an organization with two geezers who are considered to have about as much credibility with a franchise as any executives in history.

I said Wright, like I could have said PATFO. It is obvious that these things aren't a one man decision.

I also know you got the point and was just looking for an excuse to keep beating on this weird obsession you have with the Raptors. :lol The fuck is up with that, bro? a Nephew related grudge, do you live in Toronto, did a Raptors employee fucked your wife? Why would anyone care so much about such an irrelevant franchise, tbh? :lol

[buttsR4rebounding]

Because the draft is crap.

Risacher has been talked about at #1 for weeks and his NBA comp is Cam Johnson.

People are panicking at the idea of getting a role player with a top 5 pick without realizing that if this draft is as bad as it looks, getting a positive rotation player will be a win

So would you trade the 2 picks plus Atl 27 plus Charlotte pretend 1st plus salary for Trae Young?

[objective]

So would you trade the 2 picks plus Atl 27 plus Charlotte pretend 1st plus salary for Trae Young?

I would, but I'm a fan of the fit. If by 2 picks you mean both Spurs 24 picks including Toronto, I doubt Atlanta would do it, they already expect to have 2 picks this year, their own and Sacramento lottery protected.

Many others would not want to see that kind of trade

[Ignazzz]

Jeesh, just took a spin on tankathon and got probably the worst scenario: Spurs land #6 and TOR keeps their pick.

Could you imagine the meltdown here if that happened?!

it is far far away from the worst case scenario.
#1&7 pick for spurs and both busts after many minutes Of playing time
no future assets no playing time for others wasted time wasted salary for high picks

[Ignazzz]

Why not Holland?

[exstatic]

Why not Holland?

He can’t play basketball,but he can jump real high.

[JPB]

Spurs could go a lot of different ways:
a) High floor, contribute now: Sheppard and Knecht
b) Compromise between fit & upside: Dillingham and Buzelis
c) Upside, bad fit: Sarr and Castle
d) High boom/bust: Collier and Holland
e) Need more evidence: Topic and Risacher
As of right now, I'm leaning b

A) Need more evidence: every single of these players.

There's nothing that allows us to say Sheppard and Knecht would be "ready to contribute now"... Actually everything, and the mere fact of having zero NBA or pro experience but playing against mostly amateur teens (who will not even become pro for most of them) vs. grown men among the best BB players in the world in the NBA, say the opposite... The fact Sheppard and Knecht can't also be considered as top prospects like Banchero, Chet or even Miller but rather role players, who take much more time to find a place in the NBA, say they certainly wont be ready to really contribute before years, and certainly not more, and actually less, than current spurs players...

Once again we shouldn't make definitive assertments and fantasizing too much about these kids. We just have to watch last year's discussions about the lottery guys and see where they are at now (any year actually). Every young prospect is beautiful in March till june, then the next NBA season starts... Sheppard and Knecht are last year's Gradey Dick. I mean, yeah they could show some interesting things here or there but they wouldn't make this team better in thie first year, actually worth if given plenty playing time.

Simply pick and give consequent playing time to two rookies next season, and it's another crap show.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I disagree with the Holland hate. He has the best motor in the draft class, he gives effort defensively and is improving offensively. He’s in a bad situation, and you could blame him for making this choice, but most of his basketball shortcomings can be excused. I see him as a Cam Whitmore with better defense.

[Ignazzz]

He can’t play basketball,but he can jump real high.

He will be 18 in draft day

[exstatic]

He will be 18 in draft day

18 is fine, more than fine, as long as you’re showing high level abilities, BASKETBALL abilities at that age. He isn’t.

[Mugen]

It wasn't tanking you fucking idiot. It was figuring out the next decade.

:lmao

[duncan2150]

18 is fine, more than fine, as long as you’re showing high level abilities, BASKETBALL abilities at that age. He isn’t.

I don't think you can say he can't play basketball lol

he's good and has a lot of tools, the thing for me is that he plays out of control sometimes and the shoot. Imo he's one of the top prospect of this draft.

[Atl Spur]

18 is fine, more than fine, as long as you’re showing high level abilities, BASKETBALL abilities at that age. He isn’t.

He’s a lotto ticket in its truest form; too early to tell on him either way for me. I’d bet he carves out a career based on his competitiveness etc…

[Mr. Body]

:lmao

Imagine this guy thinking this whole season was about drafting a dwarf from Kentucky.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

A) Need more evidence: every single of these players.

There's nothing that allows us to say Sheppard and Knecht would be "ready to contribute now"... Actually everything, and the mere fact of having zero NBA or pro experience but playing against mostly amateur teens (who will not even become pro for most of them) vs. grown men among the best BB players in the world in the NBA, say the opposite... The fact Sheppard and Knecht can't also be considered as top prospects like Banchero, Chet or even Miller but rather role players, who take much more time to find a place in the NBA, say they certainly wont be ready to really contribute before years, and certainly not more, and actually less, than current spurs players...

Once again we shouldn't make definitive assertments and fantasizing too much about these kids. We just have to watch last year's discussions about the lottery guys and see where they are at now (any year actually). Every young prospect is beautiful in March till june, then the next NBA season starts... Sheppard and Knecht are last year's Gradey Dick. I mean, yeah they could show some interesting things here or there but they wouldn't make this team better in thie first year, actually worth if given plenty playing time.

Simply pick and give consequent playing time to two rookies next season, and it's another crap show.

Yeah you are responding to what is essentially a pretentious post. They have this smarmy condescension but little behind it.

[Splits]

18 is fine

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/11/25/10/78223853-12789921-image-a-28_1700909086528.jpg

[Chinook]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/11/25/10/78223853-12789921-image-a-28_1700909086528.jpg

Dude looks like he's saying "Too old" in that pic.

[CorrectCrusader]

It'd be nice to get the #1 pick because it would have great value for the trae Trade

[Splits]

Dude looks like he's saying "Too old" in that pic.

wish I had the nunchuck skills or bow-hunting skills to merge that pic with this gif

https://y.yarn.co/d26bc5f8-7a59-4758-bcb7-f39a13da5547_text.gif

[scott]

Spurs could go a lot of different ways:
a) High floor, contribute now: Sheppard and Knecht
b) Compromise between fit & upside: Dillingham and Buzelis
c) Upside, bad fit: Sarr and Castle
d) High boom/bust: Collier and Holland
e) Need more evidence: Topic and Risacher
As of right now, I'm leaning b

B is my ideal (though I'd take a combination of A and B, something like Matas + Sheppard or Knecht

Unfortunately, I feel like we won't get the TOR pick this year (which I'm kind of okay with). Not because of the probabilities, but just a gut feeling based on draft Karma. The lottery gods continue to bless us, now it is time for us to pay our dues.

[Splits]

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/licensed-image?q=tbn:ANd9GcT3irfTBt_HL7nwTLtGCi4i8niQsfyiQC V1nlQctPlk1FTw06yYWvfEzBdxhgN9m2k5gz8DoQIrhTgFrXM

imagine having to look at that grill and manicured unibrow for 10 years

[Mr. Body]

Spurs could go a lot of different ways:
a) High floor, contribute now: Sheppard and Knecht
b) Compromise between fit & upside: Dillingham and Buzelis
c) Upside, bad fit: Sarr and Castle
d) High boom/bust: Collier and Holland
e) Need more evidence: Topic and Risacher
As of right now, I'm leaning b

I like how the boom/bust potential are essentially athletes with little feel for the game. I haven't watched Holland, but that's my view of Collier -- keeps doing the same things over and over and sometimes he's very good at them.

I'm starting to feel that Dillingham is the same way. I really didn't like what I saw from Dillingham vs. Tennessee last game, when Sheppard blew up. Not that Dillingham played poorly, but how he played poorly.

I actually wonder if he has much feel for the game, which is papered over by the skills he does have. Stuff like calling for a screen and not even waiting for it to set before going. One dribble into the coffin corner on the press at the end and getting insta-double teamed. This is stuff to learn in high school or, frankly, should be obvious. If you call for a screen, why are you dribbling away from it before it's even there. Maybe he just didn't learn it? Doesn't understand it? But stuff like that keeps happening.

Anyway. The only quibble I have here is that Castle is not a bad fit. He may be the best fit of almost any of these players for the Spurs.

[scott]

Mr. Body, you watch a lot of UK games for Dilly and Sheppard, but what has been your read on DJ Wagner? Likewise, Justin Edwards was getting talked about earlier in the season but now I see him mocked in the 2nd. Do you have any thoughts on those guys?

[CGD]

Dude looks like he's saying "Too old" in that pic.

Et tu Brute?

[Splits]

Mr. Body (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=397), you watch a lot of UK games

:lmao does he? his takes are so vanilla I thought they were coming from either reddit or some upgraded nbaGPT

[scott]

While I don't particularly enjoy when Mr. Body decides to tell everyone to kill themselves, I do find his prospect evaluations to be informative, as I do of the many perspectives this board offers on prospects. Seems to me that he does watch UK frequently, and I enjoy his takes from those games. No need to hate.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This group of mouthbreathers acting like they are qualified trying to discredit the 'expertise' of anyone else.

[Atl Spur]

This group of mouthbreathers acting like they are qualified trying to discredit the 'expertise' of anyone else.

Please provide names for the people in the back.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

While I don't particularly enjoy when Mr. Body decides to tell everyone to kill themselves, I do find his prospect evaluations to be informative, as I do of the many perspectives this board offers on prospects. Seems to me that he does watch UK frequently, and I enjoy his takes from those games. No need to hate.

This one in particular was so butthurt about feeling stupid he harangued me about not being better than anyone else until I pointed out to him I was not chagrined. :lol

[Mr. Body]

While I don't particularly enjoy when Mr. Body decides to tell everyone to kill themselves, I do find his prospect evaluations to be informative, as I do of the many perspectives this board offers on prospects. Seems to me that he does watch UK frequently, and I enjoy his takes from those games. No need to hate.

I only tell people to kill themselves when their takes are pointless and toxic, like when they just pop up to say how terrible some 20 year-old just played, when they're nowhere to be found when that player does well. These people are a drag on society and should be purged.

[Mr. Body]

I'm also not a fan of a racist like Splits dropping the N-word. This site badly needs moderation.

[Mr. Body]

Mr. Body, you watch a lot of UK games for Dilly and Sheppard, but what has been your read on DJ Wagner? Likewise, Justin Edwards was getting talked about earlier in the season but now I see him mocked in the 2nd. Do you have any thoughts on those guys?

Honestly, I don't really watch when Reed and Rob aren't in, but I don't have good feelings for Edwards or Wagner. Wagner especially seems to not have a high sense of when driving over and over into traffic isn't a great idea, getting swatted a lot. I'm not really sure why Calipari starts them, nor does the UK fanbase, it seems. Some actually think he promised them starting slots during recruitment.

The platitude on Kentucky guards is they're always great in the NBA. The side-truth is that many of them never pan out at all, and I don't even mean the Brandon Bostons or Chris Livingstons who do go second round. He just scoops up a ton of guards every draft class and some are still the cream of the crop.

Edwards and Wagner, I just don't think are worth a look.

The one I'd have some interest in is Antonio Reeves, although he's older, and he's just a shooter.

Ivisic is a guy I'd definitely look at with a later pick.

[Spursfanfromafar]

It is not difficult to notice that Reed Sheppard has an immense feel for the game and for big moments. Plus the kid is an amazing shooter from distance - catch & shoot, in transition, off the dribble and even step backs. He has also got a great feel for disrupting passing lanes and uses great timing while doing that and also blocking shots at both the perimeter and at the rim (off short players). His playmaking is a bit rudimentary but he reads angles well and is always taking what the defense gives him. His advanced stats metrics are off the charts as well and he ranks clearly as the No 1 freshman in college basketball.

Now does all of this add upto his being selected at No 1. Thats a tough call because of his short stature and short wingspan. But he is a very capable PG defender and a good facilitator who is improving as a playmaker. What he is best at is shooting and help defense. In sum, Sheppard is going to be a Top 5 pick for sure if he keeps his production up for the rest of the college season. And in a draft where top end talent has been inconsistent so far, there is a good chance that someone will take a gamble on his production.

[LeBowen]

I'm also not a fan of a racist like Splits dropping the N-word. This site badly needs moderation.

This site needs a new hosting and forum version update.
It takes approximately triple the time to make a post than it does on any other forum.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Please provide names for the people in the back.

Just look for the pollyanna mixing of insults and compliments. generally speaking if you can end their post with "bless your/their heart" then you have found one. that and the desperate need to be seen as an authority and the insecurity on display if someone else might be seen as one.

Once you find the supply it is easy to suss out.

[Mr. Body]

Realizing comps are troublesome, and He Who Shall Not Be Named was much stronger and played wing instead of guard, so... fewer rebounds per 36, more assists per 36... but guess who Stephon Castle comps a bit to, in between freshman Neph and sophomore Neph in terms of counting stats and advanced stats?

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=stephon-castle--kawhi-leonard

[JPB]

I'm also not a fan of a racist like Splits dropping the N-word. This site badly needs moderation.

Yeah, but you wouldn't be here anymore then.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, but you wouldn't be here anymore then.

What have I said that is racist?

[exstatic]

Honestly, I don't really watch when Reed and Rob aren't in, but I don't have good feelings for Edwards or Wagner. Wagner especially seems to not have a high sense of when driving over and over into traffic isn't a great idea, getting swatted a lot. I'm not really sure why Calipari starts them, nor does the UK fanbase, it seems. Some actually think he promised them starting slots during recruitment.

The platitude on Kentucky guards is they're always great in the NBA. The side-truth is that many of them never pan out at all, and I don't even mean the Brandon Bostons or Chris Livingstons who do go second round. He just scoops up a ton of guards every draft class and some are still the cream of the crop.

Edwards and Wagner, I just don't think are worth a look.

The one I'd have some interest in is Antonio Reeves, although he's older, and he's just a shooter.

Ivisic is a guy I'd definitely look at with a later pick.

…When drafted in the first round. No, all UK guards don’t make it, but I can’t think of any school that produces any one position with such a high draft hit rate like UK does guards.

[objective]

Newest 2 episodes of LOCKED ON HAWKS is a 2 parter on the draft with Ben Pfeiffer that is high on Collier and Dillingham as top 5 guys, much lower on Shepperd.

Pfeiffer was big on Zollins as a prospect, that's what I know him best for

[scott]

Surprised I haven't seen Ajay Mitchell make any headway in the mocks. I like him with the Spurs SRP if there (assuming we don't simply punt our SRP again).

[spurraider21]

apparently risacher sucked ass today again

[Dejounte]

apparently risacher sucked ass today again

Saw this: “He’s shooting 28% from 3 and 34% from 2 over his last 5 games.”

Muh shooting
muh 6’9” small forward archetype

i’ve been calling it for a while now. Dude provides nothing if he’s not making his shots. We don’t need more one dimensional players like this.

[heyheymymy]

lol Spilts always with the low investment posts

just makes me think some posters on this site are young and foolish.

to everyone else, thanks for the write-ups and content. learn a lot here otherwise

[The Truth #6]

Surprised I haven't seen Ajay Mitchell make any headway in the mocks. I like him with the Spurs SRP if there (assuming we don't simply punt our SRP again).

I was throwing his name around maybe about a month ago. Looks like a great option for a SRP. Just maybe not super athletic.

[DAF86]

Saw this: “He’s shooting 28% from 3 and 34% from 2 over his last 5 games.”

Muh shooting
muh 6’9” small forward archetype

i’ve been calling it for a while now. Dude provides nothing if he’s not making his shots. We don’t need more one dimensional players like this.

Which would be these "one-dimensional" players that we have?

Clearly not Wemby. Vassell is a three level scorer showing glimpses of playmaking. Sochan is a versatile defender with a bit of point forward abiltiy. Keldon, another three level scorer that can play 2 to 4, Tre is a floor general that can pass the ball and attack the basket. Wesley a great point of attack defender that is believed to develop on offense. Branham, another versatile scorer. Collins, a big man that can stretch the ball and a decent passer for a center.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all these players are good at what they do, just that their "skillset" isn't one-dimensional. They were drafted/signed with the idea of them all being able to do a bit of everything both on offense and defense in this "socialist. Everybody eats. Everybody is a PG" style of play that Pop wants to implement.

The problem? They fixated too much on these "do it all" prototypes that were very raw (specially on the shooting department) instead of getting a couple of "specialists" here and there. I, for once, would welcome with open arms an above average 3 pt shooter, with great positional size and good defense, tbh. Even if they can't do much else.

[Dejounte]

Which would be these "one-dimensional" players that we have?

Clearly not Wemby. Vassell is a three level scorer showing glimpses of playmaking. Sochan is a versatile defender with a bit of point forward abiltiy. Keldon, another three level scorer that can play 2 to 4, Tre is a floor general that can pass the ball and attack the basket. Wesley a great point of attack defender that is believed to develop on offense. Branham, another versatile scorer. Collins, a big man that can stretch the ball and a decent passer for a center.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all these players are good at what they do, just that their "skillset" isn't one-dimensional. They were drafted/signed with the idea of them all being able to do a bit of everything both on offense and defense in this "socialist. Everybody eats. Everybody is a PG" style of play that Pop wants to implement.

The problem? They fixated too much on these "do it all" prototypes that were very raw (specially on the shooting department) instead of getting a couple of "specialists" here and there. I, for once, would welcome with open arms an above average 3 pt shooter, with great positional size and good defense, tbh. Even if they can't do much else.

We had McDermott who’s exactly as I described and was the odd man out because these do-it-all archetypes were clearly more useful than a plain shooter who does nothing else on the court. Rissacher would be another McDermott out there and it would be the biggest mistake the Spurs could ever make.

[The Truth #6]

Castle and Knecht. I could live with that. I still haven't given up on Collier - has some star potential but some triple D bust potential as well. But Castle and Knecht seems like a balanced draft. But I see them going more like Castle and Kyshawn George.

[Mr. Body]

Risacher in Eurocup Quarterfinals: 20 MIN 3 PTS 1 REB 0 AST 3-4 FT 0-3 3PT 0-7 FG 3 TOV 1 STL

Ripped that from elsewhere. That's rough. It's a young player in high competition, but he didn't do anything to make up for bad shooting and as mentioned, has been trending badly on his shots. Just have overall had a bad feeling for him. He's a player you want to consider at pick 10 or 12, not 1 or 2.

[DAF86]

We had McDermott who’s exactly as I described and was the odd man out because these do-it-all archetypes were clearly more useful than a plain shooter who does nothing else on the court. Rissacher would be another McDermott out there and it would be the biggest mistake the Spurs could ever make.

McDermott was the "odd man out" because this was a developmental year. Pop preffered to give minutes to the youngsters over McDermott. If we would have been playing for the playoffs, you can bet McDermott would have gotten a lot more minutes and would have been a key piece.

Also, you kinda contradicted yourself. You said you wanted no more "one-dimensional" players, and the only name you brought is McDermott, who isn't no longer in the club, because, in your opinion, wasn't as good as these "do-it-all" archetypes that we have. So, which one is it? We have too many one-dimensional players, or we don't? :lol

[spurraider21]

didnt watch that game so i dont know if he defended well. from what i understand he's often asked to guard other team's top options as well. mcdermott was one of the worst defensive players in the league, so if he wasnt hitting shots, he wasnt just passive/invisible like champagnie who is at least a mediocre level defender, but was actively hurting the team

[DAF86]

Castle and Knecht. I could live with that. I still haven't given up on Collier - has some star potential but some triple D bust potential as well. But Castle and Knecht seems like a balanced draft. But I see them going more like Castle and Kyshawn George.

Castle is just as big of a bust potential as Collier, tbh.

[Dejounte]

McDermott was the "odd man out" because this was a developmental year. Pop preffered to give minutes to the youngsters over McDermott. If we would have been playing for the playoffs, you can bet McDermott would have gotten a lot more minutes and would have been a key piece.

Also, you kinda contradicted yourself. You said you wanted no more "one-dimensional" players, and the only name you brought is McDermott, who isn't no longer in the club, because, in your opinion, wasn't as good as these "do-it-all" archetypes that we have. So, which one is it? We have too many one-dimensional players, or we don't? :lol

Saying I want no more one dimensional players wasn’t in reference to current players on the roster but in general. I’m glad the Spurs have been letting these types go over the years: Mills, Forbes, Bertans, McDermott. I want no more of these guys. And no, McDermott was let go because a player of his ilk has no place on any team that doesn’t have an elite creator (the actual archetype we should go for).

[TheGreatYacht]

Saw this: “He’s shooting 28% from 3 and 34% from 2 over his last 5 games.”

Muh shooting
muh 6’9” small forward archetype

i’ve been calling it for a while now. Dude provides nothing if he’s not making his shots. We don’t need more one dimensional players like this.
These retards tried to make Livio Jean Charles look like a good pick at the time. Not enough words can be said about the hard-on ST posters get for European scrubs.

Risacher is going to be a shitty reach just like Coulibaly was. Laughable that he’s everyone’s lock for our own pick.

[Pauleta14]

Reliable shooters is all I ask

[Mr. Body]

Castle is just as big of a bust potential as Collier, tbh.

Sure, he definitely can. But Castle is one of the key players on a NCAA-championship-level team and he has the physical tools to succeed.

I want to take a closer look at Collier, mostly because looking at Sheppard's man defense was seriously depressing, although Collier's season is basically over. I think he has one more game.

[TheGreatYacht]

I really hope there isn’t a dumbass out there that still wants Sarr with our first pick. If there is, just watch every minute Victor has shared the court with Barlow and you’ll see how awful a non-shooting big is to his game. Don’t think the Spurs even scored the time they were together in the second quarter.

Exact same can be said about Topic. A non-shooting PG like Wesley has been unplayable next to Victor and it’s made for some egregious play.

Shooting, shooting, shooting. Don’t be cute B Wrong

[DAF86]

I really hope there isn’t a dumbass out there that still wants Sarr with our first pick. If there is, just watch every minute Victor has shared the court with Barlow and you’ll see how awful a non-shooting big is to his game. Don’t think the Spurs even scored the time they were together in the second quarter.

Exact same can be said about Topic. A non-shooting PG like Wesley has been unplayable next to Victor and it’s made for some egregious play.

Shooting, shooting, shooting. Don’t be cute B Wrong

They are now asking for Castle and Collier, tbh.

[spurraider21]

I really hope there isn’t a dumbass out there that still wants Sarr with our first pick. If there is, just watch every minute Victor has shared the court with Barlow and you’ll see how awful a non-shooting big is to his game. Don’t think the Spurs even scored the time they were together in the second quarter.

Exact same can be said about Topic. A non-shooting PG like Wesley has been unplayable next to Victor and it’s made for some egregious play.

Shooting, shooting, shooting. Don’t be cute B Wrong
Tre is a non-shooting PG but he's ok with Vic because he can competently run an offense and is a plus passer

[TheGreatYacht]

Tre is a non-shooting PG but he's ok with Vic because he can competently run an offense and is a plus passer
He’s also having a shooting outlier, 4-7 from three as I type this. Also notice how you said ok, and not good or great? We’ve yet to seen Wemby with a 40% 3pt shooting PG that will actually pull their guy to the outside every time on Vic post ups.

Dilly or Sheppard have to be top 2 on our board, and it can’t be close with how weak the top of this draft is.

[spurraider21]

He’s also having a shooting outlier, 4-7 from three as I type this. Also notice how you said ok, and not good or great? We’ve yet to seen Wemby with a 40% 3pt shooting PG that will actually pull their guy to the outside every time on Vic post ups.

Dilly or Sheppard have to be top 2 on our board, and it can’t be close with how weak the top of this draft is.
Tre is limited in more ways than just shooting. he's also not explosive when attacking the paint, so isnt too much of a blow-by threat. its why he winds up with so many games with less than 4-5 FGA. he's shooting well today but like you said its an outlier performance. even with a non-shooting PG, its possible to run a good offense. but it would help if the other staters could shoot well. champagnie is the "specialist" but he's shooting 37% from 3. sochan has had hot streaks but is 33% for the season, so not good. obviously when the other starters arent shooting well, it magnifies Tre's lack of shooting

i like both dillingham and sheppard

[The Truth #6]

Castle is just as big of a bust potential as Collier, tbh.

Of course there are huge bust potentials in this draft. That's not a new revelation. You can share your preferences for players to draft if you like. But if you and Yacht want shooting only then what, draft Knecht #1??

Edit: I see Yacht wants Dill or Sheppard.

[DAF86]

Of course there are huge bust potentials in this draft. That's not a new revelation. You can share your preferences for players to draft if you like. But if you and Yacht want shooting only then what, draft Knecht #1??

Edit: I see Yacht wants Dill or Sheppard.

Risacher, Dillingham, Sheppard, Knecht. Chomche in the second round.

[TheGreatYacht]

Sign me up for Dilly or Sheppard with our pick and Knecht with the Raptors pick. The more I watch the top 15 prospects the more I hate them. Non shooting right away knocks 10 of them out. Half of them have numerous game stretches where they ghost like Vassell did tonight, ESPECIALLY Cody Williams who I hate the most. Being on Ignite is a straight no for me, Holland and Buzelis (net negative…) both can’t shoot for shit and their team is 2-24 for a reason.

If we’re trading for Trae, I would have no problem trading both this year if it lets us protect some of our picks for better drafts.

[rankingtear]

I really hope there isn’t a dumbass out there that still wants Sarr with our first pick. If there is, just watch every minute Victor has shared the court with Barlow and you’ll see how awful a non-shooting big is to his game. Don’t think the Spurs even scored the time they were together in the second quarter.

Exact same can be said about Topic. A non-shooting PG like Wesley has been unplayable next to Victor and it’s made for some egregious play.

Shooting, shooting, shooting. Don’t be cute B Wrong

Wes is just bad.

[Seventyniner]

imo it's quite possible that if the Spurs make a trade with the Hawks for Young or Murray that they include the Spurs own draft pick this summer. A top 5 pick, even in a meh draft, can be sold to fans as the start of a rebuild.

[TheGreatYacht]

imo it's quite possible that if the Spurs make a trade with the Hawks for Young or Murray that they include the Spurs own draft pick this summer. A top 5 pick, even in a meh draft, can be sold to fans as the start of a rebuild.
Exactly :lol

If it lets us keep a Hawks, our own, or a Bulls pick in much better drafts.. do it

[onechance87]

Who is player in this draft that can partner up with wemby to make shit happen.
Think its gotta be topic or dillinham.

[Ariel]

A) Need more evidence: every single of these players.

There's nothing that allows us to say Sheppard and Knecht would be "ready to contribute now"... Actually everything, and the mere fact of having zero NBA or pro experience but playing against mostly amateur teens (who will not even become pro for most of them) vs. grown men among the best BB players in the world in the NBA, say the opposite... The fact Sheppard and Knecht can't also be considered as top prospects like Banchero, Chet or even Miller but rather role players, who take much more time to find a place in the NBA, say they certainly wont be ready to really contribute before years, and certainly not more, and actually less, than current spurs players...

Once again we shouldn't make definitive assertments and fantasizing too much about these kids. We just have to watch last year's discussions about the lottery guys and see where they are at now (any year actually). Every young prospect is beautiful in March till june, then the next NBA season starts... Sheppard and Knecht are last year's Gradey Dick. I mean, yeah they could show some interesting things here or there but they wouldn't make this team better in thie first year, actually worth if given plenty playing time.

Simply pick and give consequent playing time to two rookies next season, and it's another crap show.

You're misconstruing what I said. I was stating my opinion, and if anything it's you who is making "definitive assertions" by stating (in reference to Sheppard and Knecht) that "they certainly wont be ready to really contribute before years, and certainly not more, and actually less, than current spurs players". I can't state that they'll contribute right away but you can inequivocally state they won't? :huh

You say we "need more evidence" on "every single of these players". Well yeah, sure, but I was referring to my lack of familiarity with those players, you can very easily have seen enough of them to have an opinion whereas I don't (this is especially true of the European prospects) while probably the opposite is true for some NCAA prospects (like the Kentucky guys). And while you never have enough to claim you can tell EVERYTHING about a given prospect, that doesn't mean you can't have enough to say SOMETHING. Are you going to tell me with a straight face that I'm not allowed to rate Sheppard as a prospect differently than I did Blake Wesley, for them "having zero NBA or pro experience" or "playing against mostly amateur teens (who will not even become pro for most of them)"?

Take Keegan Murray, or Cason Wallace, or Dereck Lively; neither took years to contribute, they had a very defined skill set that matched the initial role that was required of them. In the same way, Sheppard is super smart and self aware, to where he'll avoid making too many costly rookie mistakes that hurt the team, while at the same time provide help in much needed areas (like spacing the floor and moving the ball with high efficiency). This is what I mean by some prospects being more ready to "contribute now" than others": I'm just more confident in what they'd provide in the short term. It isn't all that controversial, really.

[baseline bum]

If we’re trading for Trae, I would have no problem trading both this year if it lets us protect some of our picks for better drafts.


imo it's quite possible that if the Spurs make a trade with the Hawks for Young or Murray that they include the Spurs own draft pick this summer. A top 5 pick, even in a meh draft, can be sold to fans as the start of a rebuild.

I don't see it. If the Hawks are trading Trae it's so they can tank, which means they're going to want their picks and their swap back. Trae ain't Durant so they're not getting a Durant haul for him. Control of their 25 through 27 drafts back plus Keldon and salary filler (Graham or Collins) is what I'd offer, with the Chicago top 10 protected first and the Charlotte fake first / really double seconds as the max sweetener. It's the best offer they can get for Trae since their own picks returned will be top 5 for Atlanta, so no reason for the Spurs to bid against themselves. Move the 24 pick(s) for another vet in a separate deal if the opportunity arises for someone good.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Spurs could go a lot of different ways:
a) High floor, contribute now: Sheppard and Knecht
b) Compromise between fit & upside: Dillingham and Buzelis
c) Upside, bad fit: Sarr and Castle
d) High boom/bust: Collier and Holland
e) Need more evidence: Topic and Risacher
As of right now, I'm leaning b

:lol the likes on this one

Thanks Rosewood thanked for this postLikes alfahdlan, heyheymymy, scott liked this post


A) Need more evidence: every single of these players.

There's nothing that allows us to say Sheppard and Knecht would be "ready to contribute now"... Actually everything, and the mere fact of having zero NBA or pro experience but playing against mostly amateur teens (who will not even become pro for most of them) vs. grown men among the best BB players in the world in the NBA, say the opposite... The fact Sheppard and Knecht can't also be considered as top prospects like Banchero, Chet or even Miller but rather role players, who take much more time to find a place in the NBA, say they certainly wont be ready to really contribute before years, and certainly not more, and actually less, than current spurs players...

Once again we shouldn't make definitive assertments and fantasizing too much about these kids. We just have to watch last year's discussions about the lottery guys and see where they are at now (any year actually). Every young prospect is beautiful in March till june, then the next NBA season starts... Sheppard and Knecht are last year's Gradey Dick. I mean, yeah they could show some interesting things here or there but they wouldn't make this team better in thie first year, actually worth if given plenty playing time.

Simply pick and give consequent playing time to two rookies next season, and it's another crap show.


Yeah you are responding to what is essentially a pretentious post. They have this smarmy condescension but little behind it.


Just look for the pollyanna mixing of insults and compliments. generally speaking if you can end their post with "bless your/their heart" then you have found one. that and the desperate need to be seen as an authority and the insecurity on display if someone else might be seen as one.

Once you find the supply it is easy to suss out.

Left for the game and came back to find the usual in my thread to which I squeezed with:


Bluster is things like losing an argument and talking about being a lawyer. You passed the bar yet cannot do simple deductions. You recall the convos about mutually exclusive?

I called you Counselor Crayola for that reason. Not bluster. You suck at deduction, Crayola.

and soon out popped:


You're misconstruing what I said. I was stating my opinion, and if anything it's you who is making "definitive assertions" by stating (in reference to Sheppard and Knecht) that "they certainly wont be ready to really contribute before years, and certainly not more, and actually less, than current spurs players". I can't state that they'll contribute right away but you can inequivocally state they won't? :huh

You say we "need more evidence" on "every single of these players". Well yeah, sure, but I was referring to my lack of familiarity with those players, you can very easily have seen enough of them to have an opinion whereas I don't (this is especially true of the European prospects) while probably the opposite is true for some NCAA prospects (like the Kentucky guys). And while you never have enough to claim you can tell EVERYTHING about a given prospect, that doesn't mean you can't have enough to say SOMETHING. Are you going to tell me with a straight face that I'm not allowed to rate Sheppard as a prospect differently than I did Blake Wesley, for them "having zero NBA or pro experience" or "playing against mostly amateur teens (who will not even become pro for most of them)"?

Take Keegan Murray, or Cason Wallace, or Dereck Lively; neither took years to contribute, they had a very defined skill set that matched the initial role that was required of them. In the same way, Sheppard is super smart and self aware, to where he'll avoid making too many costly rookie mistakes that hurt the team, while at the same time provide help in much needed areas (like spacing the floor and moving the ball with high efficiency). This is what I mean by some prospects being more ready to "contribute now" than others": I'm just more confident in what they'd provide in the short term. It isn't all that controversial, really.

:lol

[couchman]

Topic remains the top target imo. I haven’t wavered in rating him as the top PG, but with Starr and Risacher looking iffy I think Topic is rising to #1 overall.
He consistently gets to the rim and finishes over bigs, often through contact.
He uses that penetration to set up teammates.
It is exactly what we’re missing most.
Most of this board only realized this week that Topic has elite length, as if it wasn't evident on tape or .. google.
Length means his finishing at the rim and everything that comes with that will likely translate to the NBA.
3pt shooting is a concern but the Ft shooting provides some hope there.
If the 3pt shot develops he has all-star upside.

[couchman]

BtW, I hope Topic plays poorly when he returns so that he drops to whatever draft slot we get.
I’m not worried about small sample size and games where he is knocking off the rust.

Sheppard is probably second on my Spurs big board.
He, Knecht, and Devon Carter are probably the non-bigs most prepared to help immediately.

[heyheymymy]

:lol the likes on this one

Thanks Rosewood thanked for this postLikes alfahdlan, heyheymymy, scott liked this post


I liked the way they framed it in categories. Doesn't mean I necessarily agree with every single plotting within those categories but I appreciated the submission as another perspective since I'm trying to shape my understanding of the draft landscape here and right or wrong every notion helps mold the climate of each prospects value as it rises and falls or team fits and prospect strengths/roles or potential compatibility with another. I just this week began a deeper dive into the options and am addicted to takes on this subject right now as I research. Would love to hear your thoughts next. Looking forward to your better write up, coach

[JPB]

Topic remains the top target imo. I haven’t wavered in rating him as the top PG, but with Starr and Risacher looking iffy I think Topic is rising to #1 overall.
He consistently gets to the rim and finishes over bigs, often through contact.
He uses that penetration to set up teammates.
It is exactly what we’re missing most.
Most of this board only realized this week that Topic has elite length, as if it wasn't evident on tape or .. google.
Length means his finishing at the rim and everything that comes with that will likely translate to the NBA.
3pt shooting is a concern but the Ft shooting provides some hope there.
If the 3pt shot develops he has all-star upside.

I look like an all star on YT too...

- Topic has a long neck but length is really not what stands out watching him.
- He has no real athleticism, but looks on the contrary like your random under the rim, unathletic euro PG. Forget about Manu here. Most of his drives are actually without contact, (which tells you about the level of defense over there). Combine measurements should be brutal to him.
- His handlings are not that great.
- Can't shoot, 29% on 3 (behind the closer euro line).
- Bad defense, just a body out there.
He's confident, yeah, like Teodosic, Micic or Nando were...

Just for perspective, his stats in 2 Euroleague games this year (16min/game): 3.5pt, 3.5 ass, 1to, 1.5rbd, 0.5stl.

Biggest risk in this draft, massive bust potential. I don't see all star ceiling at all. He won't get all these easy driving lines in the NBA. how many, unathletic, bad shooting euro, white guards have succeeded in the NBA the last 10 years? If ever? He's no Ricky rubio, much mess Luka.

No way spurs can waste a pick on a guy I can see seriously dropping in mock drafts after scouts start to look more closely at College BB... He was your start of the season hype when you have to make mock drafts but can still really picture College players. Could be back in Europe before the end of his rookie contract.

IMHO ofc.

[alfahdlan]

:lol the likes on this one

Thanks Rosewood thanked for this postLikes alfahdlan, heyheymymy, scott liked this post







Left for the game and came back to find the usual in my thread to which I squeezed with:



and soon out popped:



:lol
I'll try not to reply to a lumpkin. He might make me even fuzzier.

[LeBowen]

I look like an all star on YT too...
Biggest risk in this draft, massive bust potential. I don't see all star ceiling at all. He won't get all these easy driving lines in the NBA. how many, unathletic, bad shooting euro, white guards have succeeded in the NBA the last 10 years? If ever? He's no Ricky rubio, much mess Luka.

Exactly, I made a very similar post a week ago.
Copy/pasting the Topic bit.



The more I think about it, the less I want Topic.
Not even with the Raptors pick.

First of all, anyone who mentions Topic in the same sentence as Doncic is instantly irrelevant.
It's like comparing Tony with Killian Hayes just because they're both French point guards.

While we do need playmaking, our perimeter defense and floor spacing needs are as just as bad.
Topic is a negative in both those aspects and it doesn't look like he'll ever be a positive defender.
Chances of him becoming a good shooter are not great, so what's the point of wasting a top5 pick on a defensive traffic cone that can't really shoot?

The same way NBA disregarded foreign prospects back in the day, they get overhyped now.
Just think of all the European guards that turned out to be legit NBA players and developed into good pieces for championship teams.
All of them were either obvious next big things or came over late as fully developed players.
Tony was more or less the only exception, but he was one of the quickest players in history.

Foreign* guards in recent drafts:
2022: #7 Dyson Daniels
2021: #6 Josh Giddey
2020: #7 Killian Hayes
2018: #3 Luka Doncic
2017: #8 Frank Ntilikina
2015: #5 Mario Hezonja, #7 Emmanuel Mudiay
2014: #27 Bogdan Bogdanovic (came over in 2017 at 25 years old)
2013: #17 Dennis Schroeder

*Foreign as in NBA being their first American basketball experience, I'm not counting foreign players that went to college.

You have to go all the way back to 2009 and Ricky Rubio to find another legit European point guard and he was the biggest Euro point guard prospect until Luka.

While Europeans are somewhat taking over the league, it's simply not the case for point guards.
If Topic was a great shooter, I'd take him right away, but he screams bust no matter how you look at, I can't see why would anyone take him in the lottery other than Luka hype?
It wouldn't surprise me if his injury status isn't actually legit, but they're hiding him since his draft stock went way up.

And don't forget all the Hezonjas and Benders that were way better prospects than Topic and failed.

[Ariel]

:lol the likes on this one

Thanks Rosewood thanked for this postLikes alfahdlan, heyheymymy, scott liked this post







Left for the game and came back to find the usual in my thread to which I squeezed with:



and soon out popped:



:lol
Huh? Honestly every post of yours is convoluted shit that has absolutely nothing to do with basketball or the Spurs, you seem like a mentally troubled individual that only comes to these boards to vent. If you didn't come to every thread antagonize someone every other post I don't think I'd notice who you are. I think me explaining you that you were making an ass of yourself by stupidly misreading an obvious post by td21 rubbed you the wrong way and now I'm the lucky one (it didn't even take 24 hs). Get some help.

[Trueblood]

Most of what I hear about PG's being drafted is that it takes 2-3 years to develop, so while I like the idea of drafting a point guard to develop alongside Wemby I think it isn't a good fit. Their age timeline would be similar but their developmental gap would be huge frustrating Wemby for the next few years.

I think the best answer we have is to try and use our draft capital to get him a running mate now because of what he showed this season. Obviously Trey would be a great fit given his pick and roll capabilities, but if he's off the table I think Giddy would be an alternative to consider. Here's an article on his issues from the thunders perspective:

https://thunderousintentions.com/posts/okc-thunder-josh-giddey-problem-ahead-playoffs/4

His shooting is obviously an issue, full stop. But I think issues surrounding his lack of driving, getting to the rim, getting FT's all stem from sharing the court with Alexander and Williams (superior talents for sure) that take the ball out of his hands which is the only way he operates as a positive asset.

He works best with the ball in his hands, he is a great passer, and the team has enough defense and shooting to help cover up his weaknesses. He would be a great pick and roll partner for Wemby with his height. He matches both the age and development timeline. Plus he'd be MUCH cheaper to get which would mean holding onto Atlanta's capital. Their eventual implosion is inevitable so having those picks will be huge for us.

[rascal]

Risacher, Dillingham, Sheppard, Knecht. Chomche in the second round.

Just draft Cam Spencer in the seconf round if you want a shooter.

Burning a top pick on Dillingham/Sheppard when you can get a player who's primary asset is the same (shooting) in Spencer in the second round is the better play.

[BacktoBasics]

Most of what I hear about PG's being drafted is that it takes 2-3 years to develop, so while I like the idea of drafting a point guard to develop alongside Wemby I think it isn't a good fit. Their age timeline would be similar but their developmental gap would be huge frustrating Wemby for the next few years.

I think the best answer we have is to try and use our draft capital to get him a running mate now because of what he showed this season. Obviously Trey would be a great fit given his pick and roll capabilities, but if he's off the table I think Giddy would be an alternative to consider. Here's an article on his issues from the thunders perspective:

https://thunderousintentions.com/posts/okc-thunder-josh-giddey-problem-ahead-playoffs/4

His shooting is obviously an issue, full stop. But I think issues surrounding his lack of driving, getting to the rim, getting FT's all stem from sharing the court with Alexander and Williams (superior talents for sure) that take the ball out of his hands which is the only way he operates as a positive asset.

He works best with the ball in his hands, he is a great passer, and the team has enough defense and shooting to help cover up his weaknesses. He would be a great pick and roll partner for Wemby with his height. He matches both the age and development timeline. Plus he'd be MUCH cheaper to get which would mean holding onto Atlanta's capital. Their eventual implosion is inevitable so having those picks will be huge for us.

For the reasons you mentioned. No matter who we draft we have to sign or trade for a pg that is better than Jones. Even a future all star pg will need a couple years.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Huh? Honestly every post of yours is convoluted shit that has absolutely nothing to do with basketball or the Spurs, you seem like a mentally troubled individual that only comes to these boards to vent. If you didn't come to every thread antagonize someone every other post I don't think I'd notice who you are. I think me explaining you that you were making an ass of yourself by stupidly misreading an obvious post by td21 rubbed you the wrong way and now I'm the lucky one (it didn't even take 24 hs). Get some help.

Sup, Dulcinea.

So just like in the political forum where @winehole is and if you question their authority you get the troll swarm.

:lol you only see people

So this is your precious of this forum. The lily white unimpeachable authority unstained by the reality of the shitbag you are.

[sfernald]

Most of what I hear about PG's being drafted is that it takes 2-3 years to develop, so while I like the idea of drafting a point guard to develop alongside Wemby I think it isn't a good fit. Their age timeline would be similar but their developmental gap would be huge frustrating Wemby for the next few years.

I think the best answer we have is to try and use our draft capital to get him a running mate now because of what he showed this season. Obviously Trey would be a great fit given his pick and roll capabilities, but if he's off the table I think Giddy would be an alternative to consider. Here's an article on his issues from the thunders perspective:

https://thunderousintentions.com/posts/okc-thunder-josh-giddey-problem-ahead-playoffs/4

His shooting is obviously an issue, full stop. But I think issues surrounding his lack of driving, getting to the rim, getting FT's all stem from sharing the court with Alexander and Williams (superior talents for sure) that take the ball out of his hands which is the only way he operates as a positive asset.

He works best with the ball in his hands, he is a great passer, and the team has enough defense and shooting to help cover up his weaknesses. He would be a great pick and roll partner for Wemby with his height. He matches both the age and development timeline. Plus he'd be MUCH cheaper to get which would mean holding onto Atlanta's capital. Their eventual implosion is inevitable so having those picks will be huge for us.

I’m glad others are coming around to this idea. We have a chance to really get him at a discount too. Did you know that Giddey with his three years of NBA experience is younger or the same age as these potential first round prospects:

Dalton Knecht
Kevin McCullar
Hunter Sallis
Devin Carter
Ryan Dunn
Tristan De Silva
Zach Edey
Tyler Kolek
Daron Holmes II
Jaylon Tyson
Iso Ighodoro

[Ariel]

Sup, Dulcinea.

So just like in the political forum where @winehole is and if you question their authority you get the troll swarm.

:lol you only see people

So this is your precious of this forum. The lily white unimpeachable authority unstained by the reality of the shitbag you are.
Ah, finally I get some insight into your fuzzy mind, you're implying I'm part of a "troll swarm". It'd be VERY EASILY verifiable that I'm not by any mod ( timvp ? Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) ? Bruno (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=2449) ?) to disproove your theory, I doubt there's anyone posting from my area over here.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Ah, finally I get some insight into your fuzzy mind, you're implying I'm part of a "troll swarm". It'd be VERY EASILY verifiable that I'm not by any mod (timvp? Chinook? Bruno?), I doubt there's anyone posting from my area over here.

the mods know very well it is pointless to try to moderate you. IP bans just mean you get another IP. it's obvious they stopped trying to even try a long time ago.

What I am claiming is that I made a couple of assumptions on how to fuck with you and as I have laid out above. It makes a good argument when the audience can follow along and see the timeline for themselves by clicking the links.

I have been explaining what I am doing as I go with confidence that you cannot help yourself because of assumption #1: You are extremely mentally ill. You really are deeply insecure and desperate need the supply of being seen as authority. NPD, IOW.

[itzsoweezee]

Most of what I hear about PG's being drafted is that it takes 2-3 years to develop, so while I like the idea of drafting a point guard to develop alongside Wemby I think it isn't a good fit. Their age timeline would be similar but their developmental gap would be huge frustrating Wemby for the next few years.

I think the best answer we have is to try and use our draft capital to get him a running mate now because of what he showed this season. Obviously Trey would be a great fit given his pick and roll capabilities, but if he's off the table I think Giddy would be an alternative to consider. Here's an article on his issues from the thunders perspective:

https://thunderousintentions.com/posts/okc-thunder-josh-giddey-problem-ahead-playoffs/4

His shooting is obviously an issue, full stop. But I think issues surrounding his lack of driving, getting to the rim, getting FT's all stem from sharing the court with Alexander and Williams (superior talents for sure) that take the ball out of his hands which is the only way he operates as a positive asset.

He works best with the ball in his hands, he is a great passer, and the team has enough defense and shooting to help cover up his weaknesses. He would be a great pick and roll partner for Wemby with his height. He matches both the age and development timeline. Plus he'd be MUCH cheaper to get which would mean holding onto Atlanta's capital. Their eventual implosion is inevitable so having those picks will be huge for us.

I agree with the first part, drafting a point guard is a bad idea for the reasons you state. However, I skeptical about giddey. The roster can’t handle any more guys that can’t score consistently.

[Ariel]

the mods know very well it is pointless to try to moderate you. IP bans just mean you get another IP. it's obvious they stopped trying to even try a long time ago.

What I am claiming is that I made a couple of assumptions on how to fuck with you and as I have laid out above. It makes a good argument when the audience can follow along and see the timeline for themselves by clicking the links.

I have been explaining what I am doing as I go with confidence that you cannot help yourself because of assumption #1: You are extremely mentally ill. You really are deeply insecure and desperate need the supply of being seen as authority. NPD, IOW.
:lol
I''m from Buenos Aires, Argentina and I've never conceiled or changed (in a purposeful way, that is) my IP since I registered 18 years ago. Your argument that I'm a troll and any proof to the contrary is invalid is unfalsifiable, which speaks more of your paranoid mind than it does about me. You might be shocked to hear this, but you're not as important as you think you are, and honestly I don't find interacting with you either interesting or enjoyable. So carry on with your life and I'll carry on with mine.

[baseline bum]

BtW, I hope Topic plays poorly when he returns so that he drops to whatever draft slot we get.
I’m not worried about small sample size and games where he is knocking off the rust.

Sheppard is probably second on my Spurs big board.
He, Knecht, and Devon Carter are probably the non-bigs most prepared to help immediately.

I'm worried about him not producing in Euroleague and just putting numbers up in the ABA. I know it's only a game and a half he played there but it didn't inspire much faith in him against high level competition. And even worse if he pulls a James Wiseman and decides to sit out the rest of the season to preserve draft stock. Topic seems like the biggest boom or bust prospect in this draft given lack of production against high level competition and inability to shoot.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lol
I''m from Buenos Aires, Argentina and I've never conceiled or changed (in a purposeful way, that is) my IP since I registered 18 years ago. Your argument that I'm a troll and any proof to the contrary is invalid is unfalsifiable, which speaks more of your paranoid mind than it does about me. You might be shocked to hear this, but you're not as important as you think you are, and honestly I don't find interacting with you either interesting or enjoyable. So carry on with your life and I'll carry on with mine.

You think our audience does not know you can spoof IP, Dulcinea?

[sfernald]

I'm worried about him not producing in Euroleague and just putting numbers up in the ABA. I know it's only a game and a half he played there but it didn't inspire much faith in him against high level competition. And even worse if he pulls a James Wiseman and decides to sit out the rest of the season to preserve draft stock. Topic seems like the biggest boom or bust prospect in this draft given lack of production against high level competition and inability to shoot.

I see this argument all the time but I think it’s a bit of a crock. There was no expectation earlier in the season when playing for the ABA that he would eventually play in Euro and he was near the top of the mocks. Suddenly he goes up there, plays like one and half games and suddenly everything is in question. That’s a crock. He can’t be expected to adjust in that amount of time. There is plenty of film to make a determination on him on the same league that Jokic played on. No excuses. Either you like him as a prospect or you don’t. Don’t blame him for injury and then doing what every other prospect would do in his shoes.

[SpursBills]

Just draft Cam Spencer in the seconf round if you want a shooter.

Burning a top pick on Dillingham/Sheppard when you can get a player who's primary asset is the same (shooting) in Spencer in the second round is the better play.

I see your point, don't necessarily agree. Just think it's pretty interesting that if Sheppard (19) literally did not improve at anything as a player for the next 4 years, he'd basically be Cam Spencer (23).

No Ceilings has us taking Sheppard and Castle this draft, so that's something you should be able to live with.

[Mr. Body]

I look like an all star on YT too...

- Topic has a long neck but length is really not what stands out watching him.
- He has no real athleticism, but looks on the contrary like your random under the rim, unathletic euro PG. Forget about Manu here. Most of his drives are actually without contact, (which tells you about the level of defense over there). Combine measurements should be brutal to him.
- His handlings are not that great.
- Can't shoot, 29% on 3 (behind the closer euro line).
- Bad defense, just a body out there.
He's confident, yeah, like Teodosic, Micic or Nando were...

Just for perspective, his stats in 2 Euroleague games this year (16min/game): 3.5pt, 3.5 ass, 1to, 1.5rbd, 0.5stl.

Biggest risk in this draft, massive bust potential. I don't see all star ceiling at all. He won't get all these easy driving lines in the NBA. how many, unathletic, bad shooting euro, white guards have succeeded in the NBA the last 10 years? If ever? He's no Ricky rubio, much mess Luka.

No way spurs can waste a pick on a guy I can see seriously dropping in mock drafts after scouts start to look more closely at College BB... He was your start of the season hype when you have to make mock drafts but can still really picture College players. Could be back in Europe before the end of his rookie contract.

IMHO ofc.

Yeah, all of this, really, although the two Euroleague games should probably be discounted. Moving into a new team and higher level of competition isn't easy.

Speed and control are forms of athleticism, but all we have are clip packages that show him spamming drives against clunky defenses. His finishing numbers are great, but only in that environment. Otherwise it's impossible to get any feel on him.

For me, he'd need to be a basketball genius, closer to Doncic, to be excited about. The overall height is great, even if he's a giraffe, but if I'm uncertain about how a player's shooting projects, I need something else. I need superior playmaking or I need great defense and frankly the Spurs don't need superior playmaking, just someone who can make the reads within the system and get Wembanyama and open guys the ball.

[baseline bum]

I see this argument all the time but I think it’s a bit of a crock. There was no expectation earlier in the season when playing for the ABA that he would eventually play in Euro and he was near the top of the mocks. Suddenly he goes up there, plays like one and half games and suddenly everything is in question. That’s a crock. He can’t be expected to adjust in that amount of time. There is plenty of film to make a determination on him on the same league that Jokic played on. No excuses. Either you like him as a prospect or you don’t. Don’t blame him for injury and then doing what every other prospect would do in his shoes.

And I thought it was ridiculous then that he was #1 or #2 in every mock when he made his living attacking the rim in a league without much shotblocking and when he can't shoot.

[couchman]

I understand the concern about level of play but the Euroleague sample size is tiny and I feel very comfortable with what I saw from ABA. He’s a natural on the ball, has a ton of pace changes and acceleration to constantly get into the lane, and he’s crafty with his finishes, including the suddenly slow step at the rim that we see guys like Luka and SGA using so well. The 7ft wingspan is real and you can see it in how he plays. He is long, not just in the neck lol. The long neck isn’t useful on defense but offensively he sees the floor well. The jumper is a real concern but the traits he already shows are things that are tough to teach.Yes he could bust, but who in this draft is a sure thing besides maybe Sheppard?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Sup, Dulcinea.

So just like in the political forum where @winehole is and if you question their authority you get the troll swarm.

:lol you only see people

So this is your precious of this forum. The lily white unimpeachable authority unstained by the reality of the shitbag you are.


:lol
I''m from Buenos Aires, Argentina and I've never conceiled or changed (in a purposeful way, that is) my IP since I registered 18 years ago. Your argument that I'm a troll and any proof to the contrary is invalid is unfalsifiable, which speaks more of your paranoid mind than it does about me. You might be shocked to hear this, but you're not as important as you think you are, and honestly I don't find interacting with you either interesting or enjoyable. So carry on with your life and I'll carry on with mine.

:lol

[baseline bum]

- Can't shoot, 29% on 3 (behind the closer euro line).


It's even worse, 25.8% from the three in his games played this season counting ABA and Euroleague.

[baseline bum]

I understand the concern about level of play but the Euroleague sample size is tiny and I feel very comfortable with what I saw from ABA. He’s a natural on the ball, has a ton of pace changes and acceleration to constantly get into the lane, and he’s crafty with his finishes, including the suddenly slow step at the rim that we see guys like Luka and SGA using so well. The 7ft wingspan is real and you can see it in how he plays. He is long, not just in the neck lol. The long neck isn’t useful on defense but offensively he sees the floor well. The jumper is a real concern but the traits he already shows are things that are tough to teach.Yes he could bust, but who in this draft is a sure thing besides maybe Sheppard?

He can't shoot. Spurs already have two PGs who can't shoot and you have the seen the results.

[pad300]

I'm worried about him not producing in Euroleague and just putting numbers up in the ABA. I know it's only a game and a half he played there but it didn't inspire much faith in him against high level competition. And even worse if he pulls a James Wiseman and decides to sit out the rest of the season to preserve draft stock. Topic seems like the biggest boom or bust prospect in this draft given lack of production against high level competition and inability to shoot.


I see this argument all the time but I think it’s a bit of a crock. There was no expectation earlier in the season when playing for the ABA that he would eventually play in Euro and he was near the top of the mocks. Suddenly he goes up there, plays like one and half games and suddenly everything is in question. That’s a crock. He can’t be expected to adjust in that amount of time. There is plenty of film to make a determination on him on the same league that Jokic played on. No excuses. Either you like him as a prospect or you don’t. Don’t blame him for injury and then doing what every other prospect would do in his shoes.

Also, hidden in this is the assumption that somehow, the NCAA is "high level competition" and the ABA is not. That is bullshit; the ABA is a tougher league to play in than the NCAA.

[Mr. Body]

And I thought it was ridiculous then that he was #1 or #2 in every mock when he made his living attacking the rim in a league without much shotblocking and when he can't shoot.

I'm a bit fascinated by how the draft is prone to leaps of movement but also inertia. I don't think Sarr-Risacher-Topic are the top three picks. At least not necessarily. But the beginning of the year was pretty volatile. We had early mocked players start off very poorly - Buzelis and Holland looked poor on a bad Ignite team, guys like Collier didn't look good, Castle was injured, the big name Kentucky players were bad (Edwards, Wagner) and so on -- and so someone had to occupy those spots. The international players rose.

Then, because we have to assume the process makes sense and everyone knows what they're doing, people started getting angry at the suggestion that those players may not be the top players after all, or have flaws.

[Mr. Body]

Also, hidden in this is the assumption that somehow, the NCAA is "high level competition" and the ABA is not. That is bullshit; the ABA is a tougher league to play in than the NCAA.

Nah, man. Once again, nah. The "grown man!" argument misses the point. You may have more developed bodies, but the top NCAA teams can be far more organized and better coached to play against than even a second tier Euro league.

This is about development, where college so far is much better for a young player's development. Other than some exceptions, of course. You have much better facilities to your disposal, much more meaningful game environments, important possessions, and, yes, individual players might be better in ABA (maybe), they are not coached in the same way where a player has to learn how to counter them.

Frankly the "grown men!" argument is pretty silly. The utter failure of Ignite this year should put to bed the "grown men!" argument for development.

[baseline bum]

Also, hidden in this is the assumption that somehow, the NCAA is "high level competition" and the ABA is not. That is bullshit; the ABA is a tougher league to play in than the NCAA.

On what do you base that assertion? Does ABA have NBA players like say the French league does? Off the top of my head Mike James and Donatas Motiejunas were on Monaco's team last year for example. Whereas in a decent Division 1 conference you'll be playing guys who will be in the NBA pretty regularly.

[spurraider21]

On what do you base that assertion? Does ABA have NBA players like say the French league does? Off the top of my head Mike James and Donatas Motiejunas were on Monaco's team last year for example. Whereas in a decent Division 1 conference you'll be playing guys who will be in the NBA pretty regularly.
the answer is probably "something something something something jokic played in ABA and now he's good something something something"

[LeBowen]

We need an elite playmaker at the point.
Or an elite point forward, which is even harder to find.
Someone to run an offense and get the best out of everyone.

None of the point guards in this class are a sure thing, every single one of them has a lot of serious and valid concerns about his game.

Meanwhile, our perimeter rotation (SG-SF-PF) where we need at least 5 useful players is easily the weakest in the league.
Devin is the only sure thing and even he's got some obvious flaws and will need to live up to his extension.
Jermey has some great attributes and some glaring flaws that need to be fixed or he'll never be anything more than a glue guy.
Others are useless, with very little hope for improvement.
Including Keldon who's a finished product, not good enough and needs to go.

So even if Spurs draft two wings and Sidy is a part of the rotation the next season, it won't be a problem.

Good wings are way more difficult to find and even more difficult to trade for without getting ripped off.
Point guards are everywhere and getting a solid one is easy.

If Spurs don't want Trae, just get Tyus Jones with second rounders until a better opportunity presents itself.

But getting two-way wings that can shoot is the most important thing in the modern NBA.

[sfernald]

We need an elite playmaker at the point.
Or an elite point forward, which is even harder to find.
Someone to run an offense and get the best out of everyone.

None of the point guards in this class are a sure thing, every single one of them has a lot of serious and valid concerns about his game.

Meanwhile, our perimeter rotation (SG-SF-PF) where we need at least 5 useful players is easily the weakest in the league.
Devin is the only sure thing and even he's got some obvious flaws and will need to live up to his extension.
Jermey has some great attributes and some glaring flaws that need to be fixed or he'll never be anything more than a glue guy.
Others are useless, with very little hope for improvement.
Including Keldon who's a finished product, not good enough and needs to go.

So even if Spurs draft two wings and Sidy is a part of the rotation the next season, it won't be a problem.

Good wings are way more difficult to find and even more difficult to trade for without getting ripped off.
Point guards are everywhere and getting a solid one is easy.

If Spurs don't want Trae, just get Tyus Jones with second rounders until a better opportunity presents itself.

But getting two-way wings that can shoot is the most important thing in the modern NBA.

Can you name one sure thing 2 way wing in this draft?

[spurraider21]

saw a mock that had us picking 3 and 7 and took Sheppard and Castle. i dont... hate that combo

[rascal]

I see your point, don't necessarily agree. Just think it's pretty interesting that if Sheppard (19) literally did not improve at anything as a player for the next 4 years, he'd basically be Cam Spencer (23).

No Ceilings has us taking Sheppard and Castle this draft, so that's something you should be able to live with.

What do you really expect Sheppard to improve on?

You really think he's going to be much better defensively than Cam Spencer and if so is the difference worth a top ten pick over a second rounder?

[rascal]

Also, hidden in this is the assumption that somehow, the NCAA is "high level competition" and the ABA is not. That is bullshit; the ABA is a tougher league to play in than the NCAA.

Is it really better? How many players in the NCAA will make it to the NBA as compared to how many players in the ABA will make it to the NBA?

[pad300]

Nah, man. Once again, nah. The "grown man!" argument misses the point. You may have more developed bodies, but the top NCAA teams can be far more organized and better coached to play against than even a second tier Euro league.

This is about development, where college so far is much better for a young player's development. Other than some exceptions, of course. You have much better facilities to your disposal, much more meaningful game environments, important possessions, and, yes, individual players might be better in ABA (maybe), they are not coached in the same way where a player has to learn how to counter them.

Frankly the "grown men!" argument is pretty silly. The utter failure of Ignite this year should put to bed the "grown men!" argument for development.


On what do you base that assertion? Does ABA have NBA players like say the French league does? Off the top of my head Mike James and Donatas Motiejunas were on Monaco's team last year for example. Whereas in a decent Division 1 conference you'll be playing guys who will be in the NBA pretty regularly.


the answer is probably "something something something something jokic played in ABA and now he's good something something something"

What is this based on...

Mr. Body is dismissive of “grown man!”, but, grown men are not just more developed bodies, it’s more developed games; experience matters. A guy who’s 28 has 6 more years b-ball experience at the highest levels of play than a college senior.

In basketball, like in so many things, the weak link is what breaks. The weaker defenders on the floor, are the ones who get picked on to break the defence. So when, for example, when Reed Sheppard is going off for 32 on the Mississippi State Bulldogs, who is he scoring on? Some guy who's got enough talent that he could be a pro someday? Is it some guy who's good enough to be a pro today (never mind several years from now when said defender will be at the peak of his game)?
Here's the Bulldog's roster:
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/roster/_/id/344
I don't see anyone I recognize as an NBA prospect.

But never mind being good enough in their college days. I figure 90-95% of NCAA players do not have enough natural talent to collect a pro dollar, anywhere, ever... Never mind them having their games developed enough when they are 20 years old.

So let’s share a little experiment – you guys have to do your part, just like I will do mine...

Mr Body figures the SEC is better than the ABA (and I can’t pull the post up to link it, because search is broken... Fuck Slovenian servers up the ass forever).

Here’s a link to the SEC page for 2013/14.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/sec/men/2015.html

14 teams, 15 or so players per team (~210 total). I picked 13/14 as that gives the players 10 years to develop their game and get onto a pro team somewhere.

Your part of this is to look through those rosters, looking the players up and figure out who:
1) Had enough talent to ever get money to play in a real pro league (ie. where management can just buy a replacement player...)?

Be generous about it; I don’t care if it’s China, Puerto Rica, the G-league, wherever. Just somewhere where you get paid to play and don’t need a day job to put food on the table.

2)Was good enough to get into a such a league in the 14/15 season (ie, in theory, was good enough to play in a pro league in 13/14 as well...)

Figure out the percentage of those 200 or so players who meet 1 and then 2. I’m guessing you will hit less than 30/210 for 1) and 15/210 for 2)

I will do the ABA side of things. In the ABA, the answer for both 1) and 2) is 100%...

Does that experiment make it clear why I think the ABA is a harder league than the NCAA? College ballers could compete with foreign pro’s back in the 1970’s (and earlier), but the US started sending professional teams to the olympics in 1992, and there was good reason for that...

[exstatic]

Nah, man. Once again, nah. The "grown man!" argument misses the point. You may have more developed bodies, but the top NCAA teams can be far more organized and better coached to play against than even a second tier Euro league.

This is about development, where college so far is much better for a young player's development. Other than some exceptions, of course. You have much better facilities to your disposal, much more meaningful game environments, important possessions, and, yes, individual players might be better in ABA (maybe), they are not coached in the same way where a player has to learn how to counter them.

Frankly the "grown men!" argument is pretty silly. The utter failure of Ignite this year should put to bed the "grown men!" argument for development.

That’s not even remotely true. Europeans play maybe two games a week, and have no classes to attend. They get way more coaching and development time, making them better players, and explaining their takeover of the NBA. There hasn’t been a US born NBA MVP since 2018. Topic is going to be one of those guys.

[Mr. Body]

That’s not even remotely true. Europeans play maybe two games a week, and have no classes to attend. They get way more coaching and development time, making them better players, and explaining their takeover of the NBA. There hasn’t been a US born NBA MVP since 2018. Topic is going to be one of those guys.

Are you not understanding what I'm saying either?

Like... basketball is not a dude shooting in a gym, right? It's a game where five players play against five players. On a court.

The reason why Ignite guys are so trash and AAU guys who never get better are so trash is because of your mentality, just not really understanding what is going on. Spamming your crossover or whatever is fine, but it's not developing basketball skills in the sense of reading the game in individual plays, a sequence of plays, a full game.

Like, we see this all the time with the current young Spurs. They don't know how to react to runs, to a team raising their gears, how to end quarters and their game. They're getting better at it, and at least they have some basis to work from, but this is the sort of thing where... a couple nights ago, Toronto was up on Denver but it was highly likely that Denver would smack them down in the end. Raise their levels when they have to.

Young players don't know how to do this.

They don't know how to react when trouble comes, a lid goes over the basket, how to get their players involved. This is why Barkley, Stockton, Malone, David Robinson, Duncan, Chris Paul, etc., etc., were prepped for the NBA from college because they learned how to raise up their teams and understand team play.

Not a single one of those guys would have had the same experience if they played in Serbia. NCAA is a better development situation. Current players come out too early. It takes too long to develop them. But running around in Bratislava or Melbourne isn't going to help the same way actual structure helps. Sitting in a corner waiting for some 28 year-old to maybe kick out to you isn't going to help. Barely passable pro-level sets aren't going to help.

And, yes, Kentucky and Duke have far better facilities and more money spent on them than Bourg or whatever. And better coaching.

I mean, you don't have to believe it, but this is all 100% true. What you're doing is looking at the wrong thing. And, again, the reason why Ignite almni are so poor at basketball. Only now is Kuminga finally putting it together. Because running around G-League scrimmages might help players who have the fundamentals, but it does jack shit for guys fresh out of high school and AAU.

[Mr. Body]

And, we know Silver recognizes the problem, which is why the league is reconsidering everything they're doing with Ignite.

Unless you're a basketball genius like Doncic, it's better to come up through better structure designed for you than subpar Euro or Australian leagues.

[LeBowen]

Can you name one sure thing 2 way wing in this draft?

No, if I was qualified enough I'd find myself a job as a scout for an NBA team.
But it's way easier to draft someone who's going to become the next Danny Green or Bowen than to find an elite playmaker in a really weak draft.

Drafting someone who's going to need at least two seasons to become good, even in best case scenario means that we'll be stuck in the lottery for at least another season.
Point guards are the most difficult position to develop.
It slows down the entire timeline considerably.

Yes, I know we're not in a rush and we need to be focused on long-term, but that's why I made that list for people mentioning Topic.
Foreign point guards just aren't worth it unless they're a guaranteed success like Rubio or Doncic were.
If the player you're trying to draft isn't a wonderkid hyped up everywhere as the next big thing, chances are that he'll never be a good NBA point guard.

[LeBowen]

Unless you're a basketball genius like Doncic, it's better to come up through better structure designed for you than subpar Euro or Australian leagues.

This just contradicts itself, I have no clue what you're trying to say.

It's absolutely not true that European leagues are bad for prospects because European leagues are developing players to be useful for the team, instead trying of trying to develop everyone with NBA potential into the next MVP candidate.
Just practicing with pros will always beat US system of talented kids shitting on everyone.

US is still way ahead of Europe if we talk talent, but the development system is bad. That's why Ignite needs a complete rework.
I honestly don't know how to fix it because you can't assign talent that's not yet drafted to practice with NBA teams and nothing beats practicing against actual pros.

*Sorry for double-post, you can thank Spurstalk doing it's thing.

[exstatic]

Are you not understanding what I'm saying either?

Like... basketball is not a dude shooting in a gym, right? It's a game where five players play against five players. On a court.

The reason why Ignite guys are so trash and AAU guys who never get better are so trash is because of your mentality, just not really understanding what is going on. Spamming your crossover or whatever is fine, but it's not developing basketball skills in the sense of reading the game in individual plays, a sequence of plays, a full game.

Like, we see this all the time with the current young Spurs. They don't know how to react to runs, to a team raising their gears, how to end quarters and their game. They're getting better at it, and at least they have some basis to work from, but this is the sort of thing where... a couple nights ago, Toronto was up on Denver but it was highly likely that Denver would smack them down in the end. Raise their levels when they have to.

Young players don't know how to do this.

They don't know how to react when trouble comes, a lid goes over the basket, how to get their players involved. This is why Barkley, Stockton, Malone, David Robinson, Duncan, Chris Paul, etc., etc., were prepped for the NBA from college because they learned how to raise up their teams and understand team play.

Not a single one of those guys would have had the same experience if they played in Serbia. NCAA is a better development situation. Current players come out too early. It takes too long to develop them. But running around in Bratislava or Melbourne isn't going to help the same way actual structure helps. Sitting in a corner waiting for some 28 year-old to maybe kick out to you isn't going to help. Barely passable pro-level sets aren't going to help.

And, yes, Kentucky and Duke have far better facilities and more money spent on them than Bourg or whatever. And better coaching.

I mean, you don't have to believe it, but this is all 100% true. What you're doing is looking at the wrong thing. And, again, the reason why Ignite almni are so poor at basketball. Only now is Kuminga finally putting it together. Because running around G-League scrimmages might help players who have the fundamentals, but it does jack shit for guys fresh out of high school and AAU.

No one is saying that the Ignite are good, and in fact, they’re not. They’re not good, because they just do what you say develops players: play games. There is virtually no practice, and certainly no individual attention.

Kawhi didn’t become Kawhi by playing more games. The Spurs PD staff fed him what they called a vitamin, a basketball skill. As an example, a rocker step. He’d work on it one on one with the coach. When the coach felt it was ready, he was allowed to use it in practice. Yeah, I’m talking about practice. When he was sufficiently skilled with it in practice, THEN he was allowed to use it in a game. The games didn’t produce his skill set.

[scott]

Will be interesting to see if Topic becomes the next Scola/Sengun in ST lore, or the next Milutinov/Jean-Charles

I'm not sold on him, like at all, but I do appreciate the variety of opinions on him. Definitely don't like the Sharpe/Wiseman route he appears to be going (though at least Topic had a legit injury)

[TheGreatYacht]

I look like an all star on YT too...

- Topic has a long neck but length is really not what stands out watching him.
- He has no real athleticism, but looks on the contrary like your random under the rim, unathletic euro PG. Forget about Manu here. Most of his drives are actually without contact, (which tells you about the level of defense over there). Combine measurements should be brutal to him.
- His handlings are not that great.
- Can't shoot, 29% on 3 (behind the closer euro line).
- Bad defense, just a body out there.
He's confident, yeah, like Teodosic, Micic or Nando were...

Just for perspective, his stats in 2 Euroleague games this year (16min/game): 3.5pt, 3.5 ass, 1to, 1.5rbd, 0.5stl.

Biggest risk in this draft, massive bust potential. I don't see all star ceiling at all. He won't get all these easy driving lines in the NBA. how many, unathletic, bad shooting euro, white guards have succeeded in the NBA the last 10 years? If ever? He's no Ricky rubio, much mess Luka.

No way spurs can waste a pick on a guy I can see seriously dropping in mock drafts after scouts start to look more closely at College BB... He was your start of the season hype when you have to make mock drafts but can still really picture College players. Could be back in Europe before the end of his rookie contract.

IMHO ofc.
I cringe so bad when I watch film of him on youtube. There isn't a single big in that league that's a better rim protector than ZACH COLLINS. Seriously wish I was kidding.

[CorrectCrusader]

All I want is a guard that can come off a screen with minimal separating and bottom a three. (Reed)
And a long wing that can play average defense and space the floor (Risacher)

[DAF86]

You think our audience does not know you can spoof IP, Dulcinea?

Everybody that has been paying any attention knows Ariel isn't a troll. He doesn't even make controversial posts for anyone to think he could be a troll, tbh.

I don't know where you two started beefing but it's probably your fault, tbh. :lol

It's funny because I was about to ask if you weren't an alt account from ChumpDumper. You have the same tiresome argumentative style.

[spurraider21]

All I want is a guard that can come off a screen with minimal separating and bottom a three. (Reed)
And a long wing that can play average defense and space the floor (Risacher)
dillingham can also do the first, and since he's more of a threat to penetrate, is more likely to cause the defense to back off a little. with sheppard i imagine the nba strategy out the gate will be to crowd him and force him to beat them off the dribble. its possible he can beat those looks or get better at them, but theres no obvious approach to slowing dillingham

[spurraider21]

Everybody that has been paying any attention knows Ariel (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=3526) isn't a troll. He doesn't even make controversial posts for anyone to think he could be a troll, tbh. :lol

I don't know where you two started beefing but it's probably your fault, tbh.
he kind of has the Beautiful Mind thing going on (not the part about being a genius, the paranoia part) where he thinks basically anyone who disagrees with him is a troll or alt account

[mo7888]

Everybody that has been paying any attention knows Ariel isn't a troll. He doesn't even make controversial posts for anyone to think he could be a troll, tbh.

I don't know where you two started beefing but it's probably your fault, tbh. :lol

It's funny because I was about to ask if you weren't an alt account from ChumpDumper. You have the same tiresome argumentative style.

Yup.... Ariel is a legit poster....

[scott]

Fuzzy is just a pathetic human whose satisfaction in life is apparently driven solely by being the self-proclaimed king of internet forums. Anyone who dares engage in an opinion counter to his/hers/theirs is "petulant", "stupid" or part of the "troll swarm". He/She/They adds zero value to to the forum and, like many of the other posters who primarily dwell in the Politics forum, is best ignored.

[Dejounte]

he kind of has the Beautiful Mind thing going on (not the part about being a genius, the paranoia part) where he thinks basically anyone who disagrees with him is a troll or alt account

So it’s kind of like Mr Body but even more unhinged. Who would have thought that was possible?

[Bruno]

Regardless of the level of the ABA, Topic was playing for a quite special team called Mega Basket. Mega Basket owner is Topic's agent and most, if not all, of the other players of Mega Basket are also represented by this agent/owner. The main goal of the team is to showcase young players.

Because of that, I'm always cautious when a player put great stats with this team. You had to wonder if the owner/agent doesn't ask to the coach, as main goal, to make the best prospect (Topic this year) looks as good as possible.

While I'm cautious, I'm obviously not writing off a player because he is on that team. Jokic came from that team.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Fuzzy is just a pathetic human whose satisfaction in life is apparently driven solely by being the self-proclaimed king of internet forums. Anyone who dares engage in an opinion counter to his/hers/theirs is "petulant", "stupid" or part of the "troll swarm". He/She/They adds zero value to to the forum and, like many of the other posters who primarily dwell in the Politics forum, is best ignored.

I love you trying to hedge and prop up your Dulcinea. Not obvious at all and fit with what I have been saying perfectly.

:lol you seem upset

[couchman]

People who act as though coaching in european leagues is worse than Ameircan coaching aren't paying attention. Here's a little clue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU30jvjLpcA

[Ariel]

Important game going our way, with Charlotte beating Memphis. Vasilije Micic and Tre Mann seem like really nice pick ups by Charlotte.

[Mr. Body]

So it’s kind of like Mr Body but even more unhinged. Who would have thought that was possible?

What your shit don't stink?

Good God you really need to get a grip.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Important game going our way, with Charlotte beating Memphis. Vasilije Micic and Tre Mann seem like really nice pick ups by Charlotte.

So of course this one comes in and pretend nothing has happened.

So this is what I like to call one of shitbags Dulcinea. The key is they want to be seen as impeachable and 'above the fray.' I imagine it has something to do with purity of something because they tend to act like old southern women from 50 years ago. Pantomiming his mother or grandmother. It's really phony. They will not get mad on this account. Bless your heart is as far as it goes. He hops on bunches of other accounts for that.

So shitbag has ben having a rough couple days. I have been ambushing and slamming any sense of authority, a key component to his narcissistic supply, and then someone challenged Dulcinea here. I then indirectly supported the challnger and continuing squeezing. Squeezing is how I found out he was still mad at me for not letting him sell Klan ideology on the political forum. The silly ole shitbag.

Anywho, he was heavy into his alts at this point mad at shit and I was slamming and outing him obviously over and over again and he just seemed to give up.

Yet lo and behold if Dulcinea themselves was sent in to salvage the rep.

I quickly slammed that and what you see above is shit bag and his alts trying to salvage cred. :lol

[Ariel]

I'm now selling Klan ideology on the political forum? :lol

Dude... get help... right now.

[Mr. Body]

https://youtu.be/SQaRUdNqXNs?si=L97wdL1uXbDXg4_1

Trying to ignore all you catty little schoolgirls.

Someone posted this from the last Bourg game. Not a good game for Risacher. He looks smaller than I hoped, but I like how he moves in space on defense, good stance and coverage despite not being very long. The offense here is super rough, though. I don't think much of what he's attempting is bad, really, just not well executed, other than some plays just blundering into turnovers/swipes. That stuff can be marked as due to youth.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm now selling Klan ideology on the political forum? :lol

Dude... get help... right now.

Do you believe race exists as a genetic construct? :lol

[Ariel]

It's like I stepped on shit and I can't shake it off :lol

[Degoat]

Rob Dillingham is my target! Has all the tools to be a great guard

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's like I stepped on shit and I can't shake it off :lol

You are being studied. You should be happy as it makes you important. :lol

[vy65]

he kind of has the Beautiful Mind thing going on (not the part about being a genius, the paranoia part) where he thinks basically anyone who disagrees with him is a troll or alt account

But dressed up in the most tortured language that screams coffee shop intellectual who’s too stupid to properly string together the words he/she/they looked up in a thesaurus moments prior. Or who’s a non-native speaker, which is even sadder when you think about it.

[vy65]

Actually Fuzzy gives off strong unabomber vibes. Paranoia, obsession with middling intellectuals, god complex, deep deep deep rooted narcissism. All the signs are there.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

But dressed up in the most tortured language that screams coffee shop intellectual who’s too stupid to properly string together the words he/she/they looked up in a thesaurus moments prior. Or who’s a non-native speaker, which is even sadder when you think about it.

As seen here, shitbag jumps on different accounts from Dulcinea to be ugly.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Actually Fuzzy gives off strong unabomber vibes. Paranoia, obsession with middling intellectuals, god complex, deep deep deep rooted narcissism. All the signs are there.

It should also be noted in these posts the conspiratard takes and the casual racism as seen before.

[CorrectCrusader]

If you use a webforum in the year of our lord 2024 you're either an old head or an insane person so I don't think we should be throwing stones

[sfernald]

https://youtu.be/SQaRUdNqXNs?si=L97wdL1uXbDXg4_1

Trying to ignore all you catty little schoolgirls.

Someone posted this from the last Bourg game. Not a good game for Risacher. He looks smaller than I hoped, but I like how he moves in space on defense, good stance and coverage despite not being very long. The offense here is super rough, though. I don't think much of what he's attempting is bad, really, just not well executed, other than some plays just blundering into turnovers/swipes. That stuff can be marked as due to youth.

Omg, no way a #1 pick misses a dunk in such an embarrassing way..

[buttsR4rebounding]

So of course this one comes in and pretend nothing has happened.

So this is what I like to call one of shitbags Dulcinea. The key is they want to be seen as impeachable and 'above the fray.' I imagine it has something to do with purity of something because they tend to act like old southern women from 50 years ago. Pantomiming his mother or grandmother. It's really phony. They will not get mad on this account. Bless your heart is as far as it goes. He hops on bunches of other accounts for that.

So shitbag has ben having a rough couple days. I have been ambushing and slamming any sense of authority, a key component to his narcissistic supply, and then someone challenged Dulcinea here. I then indirectly supported the challnger and continuing squeezing. Squeezing is how I found out he was still mad at me for not letting him sell Klan ideology on the political forum. The silly ole shitbag.

Anywho, he was heavy into his alts at this point mad at shit and I was slamming and outing him obviously over and over again and he just seemed to give up.

Yet lo and behold if Dulcinea themselves was sent in to salvage the rep.

I quickly slammed that and what you see above is shit bag and his alts trying to salvage cred. :lol

This is why your family has stopped inviting you to Thanksgiving dinner.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Narcissistic rage is an intense emotional reaction that can occur in people with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD). It can involve:

Intense anger
Disproportionate response to the perceived provocation
Verbal or emotional abuse
Demeaning tactics to protect their self-image

[CGD]

At this point I’m leaning towards wanting the Raptors pick to rollover into next year. Depressing as hell options. Include it in the “Keldon +” trade package this summer for another player.

[exstatic]

At this point I’m leaning towards wanting the Raptors pick to rollover into next year. Depressing as hell options. Include it in the “Keldon +” trade package this summer for another player.

In a vacuum, that’s fine, but if it conveys next year, that’s a minimum of 3 surefire first round picks, and as many as 5 overall.

[Mr. Body]

At this point I’m leaning towards wanting the Raptors pick to rollover into next year. Depressing as hell options. Include it in the “Keldon +” trade package this summer for another player.

"Larry Bird isn't walking through that door."

That said, there will be good prospects available with both picks, imo, or even if we miss the Raptors pick and use the early second rounder. I think we'll wind up with two players who can improve our roster.

[pad300]

Hey, Mr. Body, SpurRaider21, BaselineBum, you guys gotten anywhere with your part of the analysis?

[Mr. Body]

Hey, Mr. Body, SpurRaider21, BaselineBum, you guys gotten anywhere with your part of the analysis?

What do I need to do?

[pad300]

What do I need to do?


...

So let’s share a little experiment – you guys have to do your part, just like I will do mine...

Mr Body figures the SEC is better than the ABA (and I can’t pull the post up to link it, because search is broken... Fuck Slovenian servers up the ass forever).

Here’s a link to the SEC page for 2013/14.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/sec/men/2015.html

14 teams, 15 or so players per team (~210 total). I picked 13/14 as that gives the players 10 years to develop their game and get onto a pro team somewhere.

Your part of this is to look through those rosters, looking the players up and figure out who:
1) Had enough talent to ever get money to play in a real pro league (ie. where management can just buy a replacement player...)?

Be generous about it; I don’t care if it’s China, Puerto Rica, the G-league, wherever. Just somewhere where you get paid to play and don’t need a day job to put food on the table.

2)Was good enough to get into a such a league in the 14/15 season (ie, in theory, was good enough to play in a pro league in 13/14 as well...)

Figure out the percentage of those 200 or so players who meet 1 and then 2. I’m guessing you will hit less than 30/210 for 1) and 15/210 for 2)

I will do the ABA side of things. In the ABA, the answer for both 1) and 2) is 100%...

...

To summarize: find out how many of the players in the SEC 2013/14 ever played in a pro league. How many of them played in a pro league in 14/15?

[Mr. Body]

To summarize: find out how many of the players in the SEC 2013/14 ever played in a pro league. How many of them played in a pro league in 14/15?

What does that have to do with any point I was making.

[JPB]

This draft looks more uncertain than ever. there's usually some kind of consensus at that time of the year on the first 3 picks... Not so much this year, with early favorites kinda disappoting since.

I guess it will really be about evaluating potential over the next 4 years than pure talent, and not panicking over bad outings or overreacting over a few good ones (in the Tournament notably).The combine will also be important, FOs are really first looking at size, wingspan and verticaility nowadays, all things you can't teach, like BBIQ too, then relying on their development programs, which are real mexican armies, to fix eventual issues (notably shooting).

[Mr. Body]

This draft looks more uncertain than ever. there's usually some kind of consensus at that time of the year on the first 3 picks... Not so much this year, with early favorites kinda disappoting since.

I guess it will really be about evaluating potential over the next 4 years than pure talent, and not panicking over bad outings or overreacting over a few good ones (in the Tournament notably).The combine will also be important, FOs are really first looking at size, wingspan and verticaility nowadays, all things you can't teach, like BBIQ too, then relying on their development programs, which are real mexican armies, to fix eventual issues (notably shooting).

Mexican armies? Not sure what that means.

But this does seem like a draft with no clear 1-3 or more. Last year there was a top 5, once Miller ascended into the group. Previous year, consensus was some order of Banchero-Smith-Holmgren. This draft is more like the 2020 when things were very weak. Teams had to convince themselves to believe in James Wiseman (they shouldn't have), LaMello was a question mark due to character and previous competition. Anthony Edwards looked good (obviously became great) and most of the top 10 was shaky at best.

I think this one may be better in overall top 10 after Edwards. Maybe.

[exstatic]

This draft looks more uncertain than ever. there's usually some kind of consensus at that time of the year on the first 3 picks... Not so much this year, with early favorites kinda disappoting since.

I guess it will really be about evaluating potential over the next 4 years than pure talent, and not panicking over bad outings or overreacting over a few good ones (in the Tournament notably).The combine will also be important, FOs are really first looking at size, wingspan and verticaility nowadays, all things you can't teach, like BBIQ too, then relying on their development programs, which are real mexican armies, to fix eventual issues (notably shooting).

Topic has been in the top 3 all year. Even his injury didn’t derail his draft stock.

[Frenchfred]

This draft looks more uncertain than ever. there's usually some kind of consensus at that time of the year on the first 3 picks... Not so much this year, with early favorites kinda disappoting since.

I guess it will really be about evaluating potential over the next 4 years than pure talent, and not panicking over bad outings or overreacting over a few good ones (in the Tournament notably).The combine will also be important, FOs are really first looking at size, wingspan and verticaility nowadays, all things you can't teach, like BBIQ too, then relying on their development programs, which are real mexican armies, to fix eventual issues (notably shooting).

I feel that we should expect the draftees to be the same level as Wesley or Branham nothing better than. Next year draft is just going to be neutral for the Spurs. Improvement will have to come through trades/free agents.

[spurraider21]

Collier had a strong game. 7 assists is tied for his second most in a game all year

[Russ]

This draft looks more uncertain than ever. there's usually some kind of consensus at that time of the year on the first 3 picks... Not so much this year, with early favorites kinda disappoting since.

I guess it will really be about evaluating potential over the next 4 years than pure talent, and not panicking over bad outings or overreacting over a few good ones (in the Tournament notably).The combine will also be important, FOs are really first looking at size, wingspan and verticaility nowadays, all things you can't teach, like BBIQ too, then relying on their development programs, which are real mexican armies, to fix eventual issues (notably shooting).

The last two drafts should be seen as an aggregate.

120 players, but really only one player and 119 also rans. The remaining 60 of those 119 are yet to be chosen.

There was really only one lottery in that two-year span and the Spurs already won it.

[The Truth #6]

Collier had a strong game. 7 assists is tied for his second most in a game all year

If we want a star I feel like we should roll the dice with him. He's a dog, he's determined. He's fearless. I think he makes mistakes due to that. I think Pop in his old age would be supportive and not kill his development. Apparently he was so good in HS at getting to the rim he never had to work on his shot. Also, since his injury return he seems to be playing a more winning brand of basketball. I think he is very underrated now at #14 or whatever so there is at least value in him if he drops.

I understand the risks completely.

Anyway. My two cents.

[Pauleta14]

This draft looks more uncertain than ever. there's usually some kind of consensus at that time of the year on the first 3 picks... Not so much this year, with early favorites kinda disappoting since.

I guess it will really be about evaluating potential over the next 4 years than pure talent, and not panicking over bad outings or overreacting over a few good ones (in the Tournament notably).The combine will also be important, FOs are really first looking at size, wingspan and verticaility nowadays, all things you can't teach, like BBIQ too, then relying on their development programs, which are real mexican armies, to fix eventual issues (notably shooting).

lmao at Mexican armies

Are they THAT bad?

[Ariel]

Regardless of the level of the ABA, Topic was playing for a quite special team called Mega Basket. Mega Basket owner is Topic's agent and most, if not all, of the other players of Mega Basket are also represented by this agent/owner. The main goal of the team is to showcase young players.

Because of that, I'm always cautious when a player put great stats with this team. You had to wonder if the owner/agent doesn't ask to the coach, as main goal, to make the best prospect (Topic this year) looks as good as possible.

While I'm cautious, I'm obviously not writing off a player because he is on that team. Jokic came from that team.
It could be read both ways though: if a player is the recipient of such heavy investment, it would be an indication as to what his potential is perceived to be. Wasn't that Wemby's case last year, for example?
Also, he wasn't just putting empty stats, he was productive and efficient and doesn't seem to have hurt his team in any way, which could be the telltale for someone like you describe.
Bottom line: limited film available (to ME), glaring weaknesses (shooting, defense) and strengths that may or may not translate (finishing at the rim) make me skeptical of him, the same way I was of the Thompsons last year. The Spurs have the opportunity to scrutinize his every move and have him work out, so that's not true for them at all (the Thompsons were indeed higher for teams than they were for me, and they were mostly right), but I feel more comfortable with those players I have a better read on.

[Mr. Body]

Stephon Castle vs. Xavier, watching while I'm working. A real smooth lateral athlete but not necessarily explosive, knows what he's doing in space, so very efficient, tall and strong for his position, the FO and coaches would love him. Very cool demeanor, rarely makes mistakes, much less freshman ones. A couple drives were either good defense or he went in too far, but rotations on defense are on point, solid and constant contests without fouling, will bang with a big guy if he needs to on the post, makes the right reads on offense. Extra pass all the time, gave up a slightly contested but easy lay-up on a fantastic cut he made in order to get Clingan for a dunk. Will go down to clean up boards.

UConn is excellent but he's right there with the other older guys. Wary to take shots and they're not exactly good, but will do everything else. Chase-down block, bothers shots, height to move the ball around, can shift the defense to get better angles. Seems like a super-utility upside. Others have compared him to a point guard Jimmy Butler and I see it. Doesn't overpower with athleticism but does everything very smartly. Offensively, can get to the rim and has good floaters. If you think he can get his shot on track, and it doesn't really look bad, then you definitely have a player here.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Risacher, Sarr, and Topic are still top 3 in most drafts I see.

[vy65]

Stephon Castle vs. Xavier, watching while I'm working. A real smooth lateral athlete but not necessarily explosive, knows what he's doing in space, so very efficient, tall and strong for his position, the FO and coaches would love him. Very cool demeanor, rarely makes mistakes, much less freshman ones. A couple drives were either good defense or he went in too far, but rotations on defense are on point, solid and constant contests without fouling, will bang with a big guy if he needs to on the post, makes the right reads on offense. Extra pass all the time, gave up a slightly contested but easy lay-up on a fantastic cut he made in order to get Clingan for a dunk. Will go down to clean up boards.

UConn is excellent but he's right there with the other older guys. Wary to take shots and they're not exactly good, but will do everything else. Chase-down block, bothers shots, height to move the ball around, can shift the defense to get better angles. Seems like a super-utility upside. Others have compared him to a point guard Jimmy Butler and I see it. Doesn't overpower with athleticism but does everything very smartly. Offensively, can get to the rim and has good floaters. If you think he can get his shot on track, and it doesn't really look bad, then you definitely have a player here.

I read all that and wonder if this guy just isn't a slightly shorter Sochan? Offensively, they are highly similar shooters (had identical FG%, shoot the 3 within .04% points of each other, although Castle is a better free thrower). I haven't watched Castle play, so I'll defer to your characterization, but it sounds like he's a mini-Sochan, and that's really not what this team needs (unless we're trading Jeremy)

Sochan:

Season School Conf Class G GS MP FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS SOS
Career Baylor 30 1 25.1 3.3 7.0 .474 2.5 4.3 .585 0.8 2.7 .296 1.8 3.0 .589 2.0 4.4 6.4 1.8 1.3 0.7 1.6 2.3 9.2 8.76

Castle

Season School Conf Class G GS MP FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS SOS
Career UConn 25 21 27.0 4.0 8.4 .474 3.4 6.3 .532 0.6 2.1 .302 2.6 3.4 .753 1.6 2.7 4.3 3.0 1.0 0.5 1.4 2.3 11.2 7.05

[baseline bum]

Stephon Castle vs. Xavier, watching while I'm working. A real smooth lateral athlete but not necessarily explosive, knows what he's doing in space, so very efficient, tall and strong for his position, the FO and coaches would love him. Very cool demeanor, rarely makes mistakes, much less freshman ones. A couple drives were either good defense or he went in too far, but rotations on defense are on point, solid and constant contests without fouling, will bang with a big guy if he needs to on the post, makes the right reads on offense. Extra pass all the time, gave up a slightly contested but easy lay-up on a fantastic cut he made in order to get Clingan for a dunk. Will go down to clean up boards.

UConn is excellent but he's right there with the other older guys. Wary to take shots and they're not exactly good, but will do everything else. Chase-down block, bothers shots, height to move the ball around, can shift the defense to get better angles. Seems like a super-utility upside. Others have compared him to a point guard Jimmy Butler and I see it. Doesn't overpower with athleticism but does everything very smartly. Offensively, can get to the rim and has good floaters. If you think he can get his shot on track, and it doesn't really look bad, then you definitely have a player here.

At least he has dragged his three point percentage up to 30%, on about 2 attempts vs the 19% or so he was shooting early in the season. If the Spurs draft a forward with their own pick Castle might not be too bad with the Toronto pick should it convey. If they draft a guard I might be looking more at Knecht with the Toronto pick though. Spurs definitely miss McDermott's shooting.

[exstatic]

If we want a star I feel like we should roll the dice with him. He's a dog, he's determined. He's fearless. I think he makes mistakes due to that. I think Pop in his old age would be supportive and not kill his development. Apparently he was so good in HS at getting to the rim he never had to work on his shot. Also, since his injury return he seems to be playing a more winning brand of basketball. I think he is very underrated now at #14 or whatever so there is at least value in him if he drops.

I understand the risks completely.

Anyway. My two cents.

His asst/TO ratio is < 2. That’s awful for a PG. I mean people shit on Topic for not being able to shoot, but this guy can’t shoot OR pass.

[Mr. Body]

I read all that and wonder if this guy just isn't a slightly shorter Sochan? Offensively, they are highly similar shooters (had identical FG%, shoot the 3 within .04% points of each other, although Castle is a better free thrower). I haven't watched Castle play, so I'll defer to your characterization, but it sounds like he's a mini-Sochan, and that's really not what this team needs (unless we're trading Jeremy)

Sochan:

Season School Conf Class G GS MP FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS SOS
Career Baylor 30 1 25.1 3.3 7.0 .474 2.5 4.3 .585 0.8 2.7 .296 1.8 3.0 .589 2.0 4.4 6.4 1.8 1.3 0.7 1.6 2.3 9.2 8.76

Castle

Season School Conf Class G GS MP FG FGA FG% 2P 2PA 2P% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS SOS
Career UConn 25 21 27.0 4.0 8.4 .474 3.4 6.3 .532 0.6 2.1 .302 2.6 3.4 .753 1.6 2.7 4.3 3.0 1.0 0.5 1.4 2.3 11.2 7.05

In a way, yeah. Castle with more assists, fewer rebounds, can run point. They're both active, potentially very good defenders with a good floor sense who can switch capably to defend multiple positions, be opportunistic with steals and blocks without losing position, can clear boards. They're what the Spurs probably want on that end.

With every point in this draft, it seems you're giving something up:

1. Topic - shooting and defense
2. Sheppard - positional size, man-to-man defense
3. Dillingham - positional size, defense, possible game feel
4. Castle - shooting

Of course each element given up isn't the same. Some are bigger deficits than others or can be corrected.

Collier I've only watched a couple times. He was better the second one. Tremendous speed and good strength for his position. Right now, I'd say you're giving up execution, touch on shot, and possibly game feel.

[spurraider21]

could be good synergy between Castle and Sheppard... their skill overlap could look something like Butler/Lowry tbh

[LeBowen]

The thing with point guard position is that while you can develop a bad shooter into a solid one, it's really unlikely you'll ever develop him into an elite shooter.

And as it was said in other topics, we need an elite triple threat playmaker to pair with Wemby.
Being unable to go under a screen for Wemby's pnr partner more or less breaks every defense and opens everything up.

Yeah, maybe Topic develops into a solid shooter, but noone's going to jump out and fight hard to prevent him from shooting.

Current champs have only two elite defenders in their lineup and they're a solid defensive team.
We've got future defensive GOAT on our roster and unless the players we're looking at is atrocious defensively, we can afford to have a bad defender in the lineup. Everyone has one these days.

[spurraider21]

The thing with point guard position is that while you can develop a bad shooter into a solid one, it's really unlikely you'll ever develop him into an elite shooter.

And as it was said in other topics, we need an elite triple threat playmaker to pair with Wemby.
Being unable to go under a screen for Wemby's pnr partner more or less breaks every defense and opens everything up.

Yeah, maybe Topic develops into a solid shooter, but noone's going to jump out and fight hard to prevent him from shooting.

Current champs have only two elite defenders in their lineup and they're a solid defensive team.
We've got future defensive GOAT on our roster and unless the players we're looking at is atrocious defensively, we can afford to have a bad defender in the lineup. Everyone has one these days.
the most complete offensive option among the guards is pretty cleanly dillingham. explosive off the dribble, great 3 point shooter, good shotmaking in general, and also a good passer, particularly with respect to hitting the roll man. you're just resigning yourself to having an undersized point guard who will get targeted on the other end. its kind of the Trae Young dilemma, though he seems way more apt at playing off-ball than Young

[vy65]

could be good synergy between Castle and Sheppard... their skill overlap could look something like Butler/Lowry tbh

Was thinking something similar, but would you run a Shep-Castle-Vassell lineup? Feels pretty small.

[spurraider21]

Was thinking something similar, but would you run a Shep-Castle-Vassell lineup? Feels pretty small.
yeah was about to go back and edit the post to say just that

[vy65]

yeah was about to go back and edit the post to say just that

troll swarm hive mind

[JPB]

Topic has been in the top 3 all year. Even his injury didn’t derail his draft stock.

By default yeah, but he's not a no brainer there like top 3 picks some other years could be. And I preciesely believe he's not gonna end up top 3.

We'll see.

[pad300]

What does that have to do with any point I was making.

Ok, https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302519&p=11041588&viewfull=1#post11041588 (This Post) that you clearly didn't read...

Yesterday: You (Mr. Body), Spurraider21 and Baseline bum had all asserted that the NCAA was a higher level of competition than the ABA (where Topic plays). I proposed a little analysis to compare between the SEC and the ABA (again, see the linked post above). All of you have been in this thread since, but for some reason or other, none of you is willing to do your end of the research...

[JPB]

lmao at Mexican armies

Are they THAT bad?

Caricaturing a liltle :) It seems there's a develpment or assisant coach for every little thing in the NBA today like shoe lace development coach or coffe machine assistant.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

troll swarm hive mind

You do seem to be having a fun time talking to yourself. I like how Dulicnea is trying to cultivate rep by talking to Bruno.

[JPB]

Risacher, Sarr, and Topic are still top 3 in most drafts I see.

Inertia, don't beleive it's gonna stay put. Muricans should rise.

[LeBowen]

Ok, https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302519&p=11041588&viewfull=1#post11041588 (http://This Post) that you clearly didn't read...

Yesterday: You (Mr. Body), Spurraider21 and Baseline bum had all asserted that the NCAA was a higher level of competition than the ABA (where Topic plays). I proposed a little analysis to compare between the SEC and the ABA (again, see the linked post above). All of you have been in this thread since, but for some reason or other, none of you is willing to do your end of the research...

Good post, idk why does that stuff need to be explained to people who think NCAA is good these days.
Even if you don't watch anything other than the NBA, the sheer fact that everyone with NBA potential leaves college ball asap is enough to conclude that NCAA's talent level is at it's lowest point ever.

Still, as I wrote the other day I don't think drafting any European point guard is a good idea because the only ones that became legit NBA players over the past 15 years were the two most hyped European point guard prospects ever, Rubio and Doncic.
This isn't 2002 when most teams didn't know shit about Europe which allowed us to draft Tony.
It's 2024 and even the worst teams know everything they need to about these players.

It's just down to making the right decision and evaluating each player's potential.

Bad shooting, bad defense and average athleticism is way too many red flags for me if we talk Topic.

[JPB]

Good post, idk why does that stuff need to be explained to people who think NCAA is good these days.
Even if you don't watch anything other than the NBA, the sheer fact that everyone with NBA potential leaves college ball asap is enough to conclude that NCAA's talent level is at it's lowest point ever.

Still, as I wrote the other day I don't think drafting any European point guard is a good idea because the only ones that became legit NBA players over the past 15 years were the two most hyped European point guard prospects ever, Rubio and Doncic.
This isn't 2002 when most teams didn't know shit about Europe which allowed us to draft Tony.
It's 2024 and even the worst teams know everything they need to about these players.

It's just down to making the right decision and evaluating each player's potential.

Bad shooting, bad defense and average athleticism is way too many red flags for me if we talk Topic.

not gonna lie, not an ABA expert, but saying like I've read that NCAA is more organised, develop BB than second tier Euroleague teams is wrong. Not even close, any Euroleague team is clearly superioir to any NCAA team and their one or two promising teens, plus a bunch of amateur kids who are only discovering high level BB.

[Mr. Body]

Ok, https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302519&p=11041588&viewfull=1#post11041588 (This Post) that you clearly didn't read...

Yesterday: You (Mr. Body), Spurraider21 and Baseline bum had all asserted that the NCAA was a higher level of competition than the ABA (where Topic plays). I proposed a little analysis to compare between the SEC and the ABA (again, see the linked post above). All of you have been in this thread since, but for some reason or other, none of you is willing to do your end of the research...

Yes, the NCAA is a better development environment for young players than the ABA for all the reasons I've stated. I'm not going to state them again, nor do whatever homework assignments you want me to do.

Young players who do not have a strong foundation are misery in G-League and in NBL and Euro leagues. It gets even harder to develop them when they go into the NBA at nineteen years old nowadays, and that includes NCAA players and players on our team, but at least the college level has some semblance of foundation for them.

I'm tired of having to explain a very simple concept over and over. It's been this way for decades and nothing about this has changed.

[Pauleta14]

Caricaturing a liltle :) It seems there's a develpment or assisant coach for every little thing in the NBA today like shoe lace development coach or coffe machine assistant.

Ah I see

In french it has a connotation of lack of competency mainly

which might very well be the case of today’s Spurs FO tbh, as I pointed before, constant personnel turnovers naturally leads to less competency at some point

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Generally speaking players that come from foreign leagues are much more prepared to be professional compared to the prep school and college circuit.

Domestic training has the advantage in some cases of higher talent but not for the top Euroleagues.

[LeBowen]

Generally speaking players that come from foreign leagues are much more prepared to be professional compared to the prep school and college circuit.

Domestic training has the advantage in some cases of higher talent but not for the top Euroleagues.

As I wrote before, it's not just about the quality of facilities, practice and games, mentality is as just as important.

Every talented European kid starts practicing with pros at 16 and gets put in his place.

Meanwhile if you're talented enough to dunk on fat kids in the US, you're instantly projected to be the town hero and noone can say anything against the next homegrown superstar.

It's way better to treat kids as if they'll be role players, talented ones will always break through and find their way to stardom.

But if you're trying to develop superstars from the earliest age chances of failure are way higher, even with the most talented kids.

[Bruno]

It could be read both ways though: if a player is the recipient of such heavy investment, it would be an indication as to what his potential is perceived to be. Wasn't that Wemby's case last year, for example?
Also, he wasn't just putting empty stats, he was productive and efficient and doesn't seem to have hurt his team in any way, which could be the telltale for someone like you describe.


Topic is a real prospect and not just the product of his agent. For example, he was Euro U18 MVP last summer.

My point was just he was a team whose business plan has been, for nearly 20 years, to showcase young players from a specific agent. That's something I keep in mind when I look at Topic's stats in the first half of the season.

[spurraider21]

Ok, https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302519&p=11041588&viewfull=1#post11041588 (http://This Post) that you clearly didn't read...

Yesterday: You (Mr. Body), Spurraider21 and Baseline bum had all asserted that the NCAA was a higher level of competition than the ABA (where Topic plays). I proposed a little analysis to compare between the SEC and the ABA (again, see the linked post above). All of you have been in this thread since, but for some reason or other, none of you is willing to do your end of the research...
i made no such assertion, nor am i interested in being assigned a homework project :lol

[spurraider21]

You do seem to be having a fun time talking to yourself. I like how Dulicnea is trying to cultivate rep by talking to Bruno.
ever notice how you have never seen vy65, ariel, or myself in the same room at the same time?

come to think of it, you've never seen any of us. maybe we dont really exist. really is a beautiful mind situation (minus the genius part)

[vy65]

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41x244sdEXL._AC_UF894,1000_QL80_.jpg

[FuzzyLumpkins]

ever notice how you have never seen vy65, ariel, or myself in the same room at the same time?

come to think of it, you've never seen any of us. maybe we dont really exist. really is a beautiful mind situation (minus the genius part)

back to the demeaning tactics. I like it. Now I suppose you are not angry. :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Narcissistic rage is an intense emotional reaction that can occur in people with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD). It can involve:

Intense anger
Disproportionate response to the perceived provocation
Verbal or emotional abuse
Demeaning tactics to protect their self-image

:lol

[spurraider21]

back to the demeaning tactics. I like it. Now I suppose you are not angry. :lol
why would i be angry? do you also think i was angry when i was watching Its Always Sunny during the pepe silvia scene too?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

why would i be angry? do you also think i was angry when i was watching Its Always Sunny during the pepe silvia scene too?

well because you exhibit all thee hallmarks of narcissistic rage of course. I know you think this smarmy tone sounds convincing in your NPD brain and cannot see it but it is there.

[spurraider21]

well because you exhibit all thee hallmarks of narcissistic rage of course. I know you think this smarmy tone sounds convincing in your NPD brain and cannot see it but it is there.
i definitely engage in mockery when appropriate (like here your weird paranoia where you make constant alt/troll accusations, or now with your armchair psychology)

dno what else

please, tell me more, dr lumpkins

[vy65]

Heavy dose of Vitamin I being administered by Fuzzy Lumpkins, M.D.

[onechance87]

furphy been bad last few games.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

i definitely engage in mockery when appropriate (like here your weird paranoia where you make constant alt/troll accusations, or now with your armchair psychology)

dno what else

please, tell me more, dr lumpkins

:lol I don't need to tell you anything you keep on doing the same thing. You are performing admirably. Keep fixating on the superiority between us and saying it is something else.

[baseline bum]

Was thinking something similar, but would you run a Shep-Castle-Vassell lineup? Feels pretty small.

Bend over, I'll show you feels pretty sma... err, wait nevermind

[Mr. Body]

Isaiah Collier's college career is now over.

[SpursBills]

Glad I found someone else on CMB island. I don't think he'll ever be a starter, but I view him as a weapon specifically to be used against these lighter centers like Chet, Mobley, Porzingis, maybe Sarr in the future. His build is like a fitter version of Kenneth Lofton Jr. I don't see him ever approaching league-average in regards to 3 point shooting, but he's got the quickness to switch on the perimeter and the size to punish small teams down low both as a rebounder and as a scorer. I think it's a reasonable bet that he has a Brandon Clarke-like impact as a valuable bench guy down the road, definitely worth a second rounder for me and I'm hoping teams stay away from him due to his complete lack of shooting.

Damn, at this rate this kid is going lottery. 24/7/4/2 on 11/15 today and doesn't turn 19 until the draft as South Carolina goes from last in the SEC last year to close to a top 10 ranking in 1 year.

[The Truth #6]

His asst/TO ratio is < 2. That’s awful for a PG. I mean people shit on Topic for not being able to shoot, but this guy can’t shoot OR pass.

He has good vision. He's young and plays aggressive and as freshman makes mistakes. But that doesn't mean he can't pass.

Tre Jones would be a counterpoint. Safe. Average to below average vision. Has great A/T ratio but doesn't mean he's a great passer.

[sfernald]

You guys know most of us don’t want to read all this back and forth school girl shit. We would like to talk and read about the nba draft. Please control yourselves. Post this shit in your twitter.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You guys know most of us don’t want to read all this back and forth school girl shit. We would like to talk and read about the nba draft. Please control yourselves. Post this shit in your twitter.

I would expect 'most of us' would see half this forum rising up against me in multiple threads. I am sure you would like me to stop but I think I will just continue putting you up for display.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Alright so let us review.

We ended last night with shitbag in a narcissistic rage. He finally spent himself out with the random and quite creepy comment about my Thanksgiving.

So when I got on today I saw that Dulcinea had posted. Most of shitbags arguments are longwinded but really can be countered completely with just a few sentences. So I made one:


Risacher, Sarr, and Topic are still top 3 in most drafts I see.

and right soon after 3 posts all within a couple minutes:


could be good synergy between Castle and Sheppard... their skill overlap could look something like Butler/Lowry tbh


Was thinking something similar, but would you run a Shep-Castle-Vassell lineup? Feels pretty small.


yeah was about to go back and edit the post to say just that


troll swarm hive mind

:lol the likes on this one as well:

Thanks scott thanked for this postLikes spurraider21, heyheymymy liked this post

Where have we seen this shit before.

Regardless, that is shitbag showing predatory sociopathic behavior.

[spurraider21]

Alright so let us review.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/CU0xcBfJPbk2Wl8LYCks_T0uZGokVCzgXmCQOpnbADJAO5IoPO FiQus2sgOp_yStgA5MAajDmtOU6JGhxRouWfNPvelxihrlvVSE Hr_PBu8iYmFluooIOjavSA

[Russ]

Isaiah Collier's college career is now over.

But I'm sure he'll continue to attend classes . . .

[vy65]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/022/524/pepe_silvia_meme_banner.jpg

[FuzzyLumpkins]

yes shitbag. continue attacking my character as opposed to my arguments.

Normal people will realize that I do not give a shit about how I look. I am triggering your mental illness over and over again. It is not cool but then you are you.

[rascal]

Castle will be a solid combo guard. He will be a fan favorite because he will do many things to win games.

He will have enough offense to not be a liability there even if he doesn't shoot the 3 at a really high clip. He's all around better than Topic. Spurs will still have holes on the roster and it's not going to be a one year fix for this team.

Still have to add a couple of solid 3 pt shooters preferably one at pg and a high volume scoring wing and a better big who can play some in the post to allow Wemby some flexibilty to more around and play pf at times.

[Rubberducky]

yes shitbag. continue attacking my character as opposed to my arguments.

Normal people will realize that I do not give a shit about how I look. I am triggering your mental illness over and over again. It is not cool but then you are you.

https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExNTlxZGJzZGJmam93NGtoMmIycnNpZm1 tZTF3YnhsZGYyZDJwcXhuZCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/3o6Zt9tPcPFfNSzJAI/giphy.gif

[FuzzyLumpkins]

https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExNTlxZGJzZGJmam93NGtoMmIycnNpZm1 tZTF3YnhsZGYyZDJwcXhuZCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/3o6Zt9tPcPFfNSzJAI/giphy.gif

I am actually done with this part. I got what I needed already. I have been saying what I have been doing the whole time. That is why the argument should be most impactful because they are not able to help themselves anyway.

[Dejounte]

Castle looks like a 6’6” version of Tre Jones when I watch him play. Good ball handler but so little creativity and he doesn’t attack the basket with a plan like special players do… he just makes regular passes like any competent NBA player should do. And for someone supposedly good at defense, he sure does leave his man open at the 3 point line a lot.

….and this isn’t me trolling rascal but just my honest opinion on Castle.

[CGD]

Caricaturing a liltle :) It seems there's a develpment or assisant coach for every little thing in the NBA today like shoe lace development coach or coffe machine assistant.

Wut?

[CGD]

Ah I see

In french it has a connotation of lack of competency mainly

which might very well be the case of today’s Spurs FO tbh, as I pointed before, constant personnel turnovers naturally leads to less competency at some point

Could you explain it to the rest of us? I assure no one else on this board gets the reference to “Mexican armies”

[rascal]

Castle looks like a 6’6” version of Tre Jones when I watch him play. Good ball handler but so little creativity and he doesn’t attack the basket with a plan like special players do… he just makes regular passes like any competent NBA player should do. And for someone supposedly good at defense, he sure does leave his man open at the 3 point line a lot.

….and this isn’t me trolling rascal but just my honest opinion on Castle.

Castle is much better than Tre Jones. Can Tre Jones cut to the basket and take down a lob pass for a dunk? Is Tre Jones strong enough to fight through screens and stay with his man on defense?

[Dejounte]

Castle is much better than Tre Jones. Can Tre Jones cut to the basket and take down a lob pass for a dunk? Is Tre Jones strong enough to fight through screens and stay with his man on defense?

To your first question: that’s why I said Castle is a 6’6” version of Tre Jones because with a couple more inches he can do that.

To your second: big whoop. Being a little bit better on defense than Tre (actually debatable since as I mentioned, he loses his man on threes) isn’t particularly that exciting

[Ariel]

Stephon Castle seems like a nice pick up at the mid teens, but there's guys of that archetype (big guards with all around games that can defend and pass but not shoot), every draft, like Anthony Black, Dyson Daniels, etc. I feel like we're more likely to get his type later on, than we are of getting a big skilled wing like Buzelis or a scoring lead guard like Dillingham. Also, as pointed out by several others, he overlaps with Sochan's skill set and role, and I'd add with Tre Jones, Blake Wesley, and even Cissoko. At some point you can't use your entire developmental quota on players who all have the same fatal flaw, and that may be a problem putting 2 of them together on the floor at once in a playoff game.
More so by exclusion than anything else, I keep circling around Dillingham and Sheppard at PG, and Buzelis and Knecht at the wing. As possible alternatives, I'd take a closer look at Topic and Collier at PG, and Risacher and Cody Williams as wings. And I don't rule out Sarr, because I still see in him some qualities you can't teach (size, length, how he moves, flashes of skill) and if we're going to take someone who doesn't fit, I'd rather go with him than anyone else.

[rascal]

Stephon Castle seems like a nice pick up at the mid teens, but there's guys of that archetype (big guards with all around games that can defend and pass but not shoot), like Anthony Black, Dyson Daniels, etc. I feel like we're more likely to get his type later on, than we are of getting a big skilled wing like Buzelis or a scoring lead guard like Dillingham. Also, as pointed out by several others, he overlaps with Sochan's skill set and role, and I'd add with Tre Jones, Blake Wesley, and even Cissoko. At some point you can't use your entire developmental quota on players who all have the same fatal flaw, and that may be a problem putting 2 of them together on the floor at once in a playoff game.
More so by exclusion than anything else, I keep circling around Dillingham and Sheppard at PG, and Buzelis and Knecht at the wing. As possible alternatives, I'd take a closer look at Topic and Collier at PG, and Risacher and Cody Williams as wings. And I don't rule out Sarr, because I still see in him some qualities you can't teach (size, length, how he moves, flashes of skill) and if we're going to take someone who doesn't fit, I'd rather go with him than anyone else.

Why are people on a white guy, Buzelis, who can't shoot.

[rascal]

Stephon Castle seems like a nice pick up at the mid teens, but there's guys of that archetype (big guards with all around games that can defend and pass but not shoot), like Anthony Black, Dyson Daniels, etc. I feel like we're more likely to get his type later on, than we are of getting a big skilled wing like Buzelis or a scoring lead guard like Dillingham. Also, as pointed out by several others, he overlaps with Sochan's skill set and role, and I'd add with Tre Jones, Blake Wesley, and even Cissoko. At some point you can't use your entire developmental quota on players who all have the same fatal flaw, and that may be a problem putting 2 of them together on the floor at once in a playoff game.
More so by exclusion than anything else, I keep circling around Dillingham and Sheppard at PG, and Buzelis and Knecht at the wing. As possible alternatives, I'd take a closer look at Topic and Collier at PG, and Risacher and Cody Williams as wings. And I don't rule out Sarr, because I still see in him some qualities you can't teach (size, length, how he moves, flashes of skill) and if we're going to take someone who doesn't fit, I'd rather go with him than anyone else.

Trade sochan, he's too small anyways for PF and he doesn't shoot well either. Why feel the need to have to be stuck with Sochan.

[exstatic]

Stephon Castle seems like a nice pick up at the mid teens, but there's guys of that archetype (big guards with all around games that can defend and pass but not shoot), like Anthony Black, Dyson Daniels, etc. I feel like we're more likely to get his type later on, than we are of getting a big skilled wing like Buzelis or a scoring lead guard like Dillingham. Also, as pointed out by several others, he overlaps with Sochan's skill set and role, and I'd add with Tre Jones, Blake Wesley, and even Cissoko. At some point you can't use your entire developmental quota on players who all have the same fatal flaw, and that may be a problem putting 2 of them together on the floor at once in a playoff game.
More so by exclusion than anything else, I keep circling around Dillingham and Sheppard at PG, and Buzelis and Knecht at the wing. As possible alternatives, I'd take a closer look at Topic and Collier at PG, and Risacher and Cody Williams as wings. And I don't rule out Sarr, because I still see in him some qualities you can't teach (size, length, how he moves, flashes of skill) and if we're going to take someone who doesn't fit, I'd rather go with him than anyone else.

Anthony Black went #6 last year in a much better draft. Doubt Castle lasts past 10.

[Ariel]

Why are people on a white guy, Buzelis, who can't shoot.
If I thought he couldn't shoot I'd stay away, but his form doesn't look bad and he shot over 40% from 3 in high school, given that I'd be willing to gamble on his struggles having a lot to do with adjusting to new (hostile) environment in Ignite, which is probably optimistic but a better gamble than the rest plus if it turns out correct you may truly have a future no. 2 to go along with Wemby.

[Ariel]

Trade sochan, he's too small anyways for PF and he doesn't shoot well either. Why feel the need to have to be stuck with Sochan.
Because I'd rather keep Sochan and use the pick on someone else, than trade him for peanuts to get the guard version of him.

[Ariel]

Anthony Black went #6 last year in a much better draft. Doubt Castle lasts past 10.
Neither did Dyson Daniels and I don't disagree with you in that he might go top 10, but that wasn't my point. I remember lots of you being dismissive of Cam Whitmore because he was painted as being low IQ and selfish, he slid all the way to 20 because of medical concerns and a laid back personality, yet he's probably a top 3 talent and much better than well rounded guys taken in front of him. Something similar the year before with Tari Eason. Houston makes a living taking the challenge with talents others shy away from based on concerns blown out of proportion (add Sengun to the mix), there's a lesson to be learned there.

[exstatic]

Neither did Dyson Daniels and I don't disagree with you in that he might go top 10, but that wasn't my point. I remember lots of you being dismissive of Cam Whitmore because he was painted as being low IQ and selfish, he slided all the way to 20 because of medical concerns and a laid back personality, yet he's probably a top 3 talent and much better than well rounded guys taken in front of him. Something similar the year before with Tari Eason. Houston makes a living taking the challenge with talents others shy away from based on concerns blown out of proportion (add Sengun to the mix), there's a lesson to be learned there.

Houston isn’t exact a template to follow. They’ve drafted these weirdos and head cases, spent a boatload of money last summer, and they’re still in the lottery.

[Ariel]

Houston isn’t exact a template to follow. They’ve drafted these weirdos and head cases, spent a boatload of money last summer, and they’re still in the lottery.
Houston is ABSOLUTELY a template to follow when it comes to drafting on the teens. I'd much rather take a gamble on Sengun, Cam Whitmore and Tari Eason, than Primo or Samanich, both of whom seemed like huge reaches even at the time. They are not only far superior talents but, ironically, much better character guys. When in doubt, ALWAYS GAMBLE ON TALENT.

[exstatic]

Houston is ABSOLUTELY a template to follow when it comes to drafting on the teens. I'd much rather take a gamble on Sengun, Cam Whitmore and Tari Eason, than Primo or Samanich. They are not only far superior talents but, ironically, much better character guys.

But we’re not drafting in the teens, and the one time we did,the questionable guy turned out to have reasons for it.

[rascal]

Because I'd rather keep Sochan and use the pick on someone else, than trade him for peanuts to get the guard version of him.

I wouldn't keep Sochan. He's too small for being a non shooter. If I have a non shooter pf I want a bigger pf who can finish strong at the rim and be a strong rebounder/shot blocker.

I wouldn't let Sochan being on the roster prevent me from drafting Castle.

[Ariel]

But we’re not drafting in the teens, and the one time we did,the questionable guy turned out to have reasons for it.
The Spurs drafted in the teens several times: Lonnie Walker (18 in '18), Samanich (19 in '19), Vassell (11 in '20) and Primo (12 in '21). Lonnie Walker didn't pan out but wasn't an unreasonable gamble, Samanich was a gamble but a blind one rather than a smart one. The rest weren't the better talent available. Also, the Spurs have plenty of ammo to use if they see someone falling. Cam Whitmore falling to 20 last year should make every franchise that let it happen (3-19, but especially from 9 onwards) feel embarrassed with their own talent evaluation. The point remains no matter where you draft, and in this case the Spurs may draft 7-9 still.

[spurraider21]

Houston is ABSOLUTELY a template to follow when it comes to drafting on the teens. I'd much rather take a gamble on Sengun, Cam Whitmore and Tari Eason, than Primo or Samanich, both of whom seemed like huge reaches even at the time. They are not only far superior talents but, ironically, much better character guys. When in doubt, ALWAYS GAMBLE ON TALENT.
Wasn’t Samanic a gamble on talent

[rascal]

The Spurs drafted in the teens several times: Lonnie Walker (18 in '18), Samanich (19 in '19), Vassell (11 in '20) and Primo (12 in '21). Lonnie Walker didn't pan out but wasn't an unreasonable gamble, Samanich was a gamble but a blind one rather than a smart one. The rest weren't the better talent available. Also, the Spurs have plenty of ammo to use if they see someone falling. Cam Whitmore falling to 20 last year should make every franchise that let it happen (3-19, but especially from 9 onwards) feel embarrassed with their own talent evaluation. The point remains no matter where you draft, and in this case the Spurs may draft 7-9 still.

I liked Cam Whitmore. I remember the draft gurus on this site saying he was so bad.

[objective]

If I thought he couldn't shoot I'd stay away, but his form doesn't look bad and he shot over 40% from 3 in high school, given that I'd be willing to gamble on his struggles having a lot to do with adjusting to new (hostile) environment in Ignite, which is probably optimistic but a better gamble than the rest plus if it turns out correct you may truly have a future no. 2 to go along with Wemby.

I don't know, I don't like how his shot looks, plus he's shooting under 70% from the free throw line. Just reminds me of young Samanic video

And he did hit like 43-44% on threes at about 4 attempts a game in high school as a senior, but only 28% or so as a junior.

[Pauleta14]

Could you explain it to the rest of us? I assure no one else on this board gets the reference to “Mexican armies”

It comes from the Mexican revolution originally, it’s a french saying to describe an hierarchical organisation with way too many bosses and globally disorganised bc of it.

PS/ I'm surprised tbh with all the STers originating from Mexico I thought it'd be a popular expression

[Mr. Body]

It comes from the Mexican revolution originally, it’s a french saying to describe an hierarchical organisation with way too many bosses and globally disorganised bc of it.

PS/ I'm surprised tbh with all the STers originating from Mexico I thought it'd be a popular expression

From when Mexico kicked the French colonialists out of their country? Sounds like copium.

Why would they have that saying themselves? :lol

[Pauleta14]

From when Mexico kicked the French colonialists out of their country? Sounds like copium.

Why would they have that saying themselves? :lol

I’d say probably from the 1st war that saw Napoleon III colonialising Mexico. To give such a Nick name to ur opponents my guess is that Mexican army really sucked initially.

mexico took back their country a few years later so I guess they learned ^^

PS/ I wasn't implying mexcican ppl were using the saying to qulif themselves lmao

I thought the US used it as well and it was a banter thing. French and English have tons of sayings about each other that we are aware of

[CGD]

It comes from the Mexican revolution originally, it’s a french saying to describe an hierarchical organisation with way too many bosses and globally disorganised bc of it.

PS/ I'm surprised tbh with all the STers originating from Mexico I thought it'd be a popular expression

No, i get it from the French perspective, which is whatever — but hey Corona now gets to sell more beer on Cinco de Mayo, so, thanks?

I was more interested in the earlier posters use of “Mexican armies” as an analogy for Spurs athletic trainers. So random and weird.

[Pauleta14]

No, i get it from the French perspective, which is whatever — but hey Corona now gets to sell more beer on Cinco de Mayo, so, thanks?

I was more interested in the earlier posters use of “Mexican armies” as an analogy for Spurs athletic trainers. So random and weird.

JPB who used the expression initially explained that he meant there’s a development assistant for every little thing in today’s NBA.
Don’t think he meant the Spurs in particular nor the pejorative aspect of the saying tho

Not sure I get ur reference about corona and Cinco de Mayo…

It’s not a french perspective it’s a french saying that, I’ve been Googling since, has also been used since by the brits. No offense I hope (to anyone with Mexican origins) We all have weird saying and stories from the past

[mo7888]

I liked Cam Whitmore. I remember the draft gurus on this site saying he was so bad.

I had Cam #4 ahead of the Thompson twins...

[mo7888]

I don't know, I don't like how his shot looks, plus he's shooting under 70% from the free throw line. Just reminds me of young Samanic video

And he did hit like 43-44% on threes at about 4 attempts a game in high school as a senior, but only 28% or so as a junior.

Samanic never had the handle, court vision, or passing ability Buzelis has. Shooting is the only real concern.

[The Truth #6]

Samanic never had the handle, court vision, or passing ability Buzelis has. Shooting is the only real concern.

Are you not concerned about poor motivation? Or has that improved?

[mo7888]

Are you not concerned about poor motivation? Or has that improved?

I'm not concerned about Buzelis's motivation. His shooting is my only real concern.

[Mr. Body]

Samanic had promise. His attitude was awful.

Buzelis apparently is basketball obsessed and wants to succeed. The shooting is a major concern. As far as comparison, he seems taller and longer than Samanic, maybe, and shiftier with the ball in his hands, more guard like. That said, I'm still not sure he's much of a playmaker for others.

[Ariel]

JPB who used the expression initially explained that he meant there’s a development assistant for every little thing in today’s NBA.
Don’t think he meant the Spurs in particular nor the pejorative aspect of the saying tho

Not sure I get ur reference about corona and Cinco de Mayo…

It’s not a french perspective it’s a french saying that, I’ve been Googling since, has also been used since by the brits. No offense I hope (to anyone with Mexican origins) We all have weird saying and stories from the past
https://tigerhawk.blogspot.com/2009/05/when-frenchman-refers-to-mexican-army.html
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mexican%20army

Each language has its idioms, sometimes us non native English speakers borrow some from our mother tongue (in my case, Spanish), forgetting they're not global and the reader doesn't have the same background, so it gets lost in translation. Happened to me sometimes, and it isn't rare that i find myself confused by some expression posted here that I have to google.

[The Truth #6]

Mexican armies. I hadn't heard that one. I like it. I know someone from Mexico who will sometimes say, translated to English, "they put a little too much cream on their taco". I think it means someone is too full of themselves. But maybe I'm getting it wrong. Anyway. Slang is always interesting. It's great that this site has diverse posters.