2024 NBA Draft Thread

[duncan2150]

Kessler seems to be more of a whiteside esque shotblock chaser and sells for ever contest, which gives up a lot of points anyway. Clingan is more mature in that way.

it’s kind of like asking why gobert is better than Kessler if Kessler blocks more shots

Kessler is a way better shotblocker than clingan imo, i don't think he's just a chase blocker, i understand what you mean tough. Clingan is less mobile than kessler, that's why he does not reach for some blocks sometimes. Agreed about the maturity, he plays with his limitations and strenghts.

[duncan2150]

What does Clingan do better than, say, Kessler, who is struggling to stay on the floor in Utah? He can be a good fit for a specific team looking for a rim protector (like Dallas was last year), but you can probably find a close enough player in free agency without breaking the bank and use a high lottery pick on someone you can't find in free agency.

Imo he could be a nice starting center playing like 20-25 mpg

for the spurs the question is just if we need a center to pair with wemby and im not sure of that so i agree you could find something in the fa if you want a center and draft a wing or a guard.

[TD 21]

Castle > Sochan

Sochan is too small for a non shooter at pf and the Spurs shouldn't be stuck on him and not draft players based on having Sochan as a long term option.

Agreed, but we all know Sochan isn't going anywhere for probably a long time and as bad a shooter as he is, it's still less damaging than someone who'd play as the de facto lead guard.

[SpursBills]

Do people think that UConn's current lineup construction something that's viable in the pros? They have:

Newton - big, physically imposing point guard (6'5") who's pretty inefficient but able to create)
Spencer - average sized 50/40/90 shooting guard able to space the floor
Castle - utility forward, best and most versatile POA defender, "glue guy", smart cutter, connector
Karaban - good sized forward who primarily functions as a shooter but can attack off of closeouts and when he gets run off the line
Clingan - huge, physically imposing defensive centerpiece who can playmake out of the short roll

They have a couple shooters, are big across the board, no real defensive weaknesses, and revolve around the top defensive rim protector in college basketball

If you squint hard enough, the spurs can probably replicate that:

Castle - big, imposing guard with a questionable jump shot who can playmaker and physically dominate smaller guards
Vassell - average sized shooting guard who provides significant spacing
Sochan - utility forward, best and most versatile POA defender, "glue guy", cutter, connector
Blank
Wembanyama - huge, physically imposing rim protector who can function as both a scorer and playmaker; obviously provides a lot more than Clingan

I left Karaban's spot blank but you're basically looking for a good sized forward who's a lights out shooter while giving up some defense. The ideal for this is probably Markannen, middle class version of this is Naz Reid that a lot people have mentioned, in this draft the closest to this is probably Tyler Smith or maybe Risacher.

Is this a model that can work in the pros? Or does the NBA need a lot more spacing than this type of roster can provide?

[baseline bum]

Wemby and Vassell are the only players worth drafting around. And if there were good enough prospects I still wouldn’t necessarily let Vassell get in the way of that. Nobody else including sochan or whatever should be considered.

We need playmaking, shooting, defense. That’s basically everything.

Only Wemby. Vassell's not purge him off the team level bad but if there was a high end SG prospect in this draft like Jaden Ivey in 22, Jalen Green or Scottie Barnes in 21, Ant in 20, RJ Barrett in 19, etc I wouldn't hesitate to draft them if they looked better than picks at other positions. If Castle could shoot I'd draft him and trade Vassell.

[spurraider21]

Only Wemby. Vassell's not purge him off the team level bad but if there was a high end SG prospect in this draft like Jaden Ivey in 22, Jalen Green or Scottie Barnes in 21, Ant in 20, RJ Barrett in 19, etc I wouldn't hesitate to draft them if they looked better than picks at other positions. If Castle could shoot I'd draft him and trade Vassell.
Sure but there isn’t that kind of prospect in this class so it’s moot. Knecht would be interesting if we get a second pick but much more so if his measurements provide optimism that he can play the 3 without being a McDermott level defender

[Degoat]

Say the spurs land at #3… think there’s a world where okc trades Giddey +12 for the 3rd pick + a 2nd rounder?

[heyheymymy]

#7 Castle/Jones
Vassell/Branham
Sochan/Johnson
#2 Risacher/Osman
Wembanyama/Zollins

[LeBowen]

Drafting another perimeter player with questionable shot would be insanity.
None of them are good enough in other aspects of the game to warrant looking past their shooting flaws.

Having a point guard who can shoot threes off the dribble would completely change our offense, I don't want another offensively challenged guard.
I can understand hoping to develop a wing into a good shooter, it's way more difficult to find good 3-D wings these days, but I'd rather trade the pick than go for another guard that can't shoot.

[Mr. Body]

Only Wemby. Vassell's not purge him off the team level bad but if there was a high end SG prospect in this draft like Jaden Ivey in 22, Jalen Green or Scottie Barnes in 21, Ant in 20, RJ Barrett in 19, etc I wouldn't hesitate to draft them if they looked better than picks at other positions. If Castle could shoot I'd draft him and trade Vassell.

Why do people have such a hardon for trading Vassell. :rollin

[Mr. Body]

Oh god, please, please, please, let’s not waste our precious picks on any more non-shooters. We really don’t need any more members of our 29% three point club do we? Not when there’s decent shooters like Sheppard and Knecht and others there.

I'd rather draft a player who can actually play than some suck-ass Risacher or slow, dopey Cody Williams or tiny, slow Sheppard. Maybe those players pan out, but in this draft you have to leave something on the table and drafting a guy just because he can supposedly shoot is going to bring you pain before long. You got to get something else. And if that something else is defense, then you've got to consider it.

[exstatic]

Say the spurs land at #3… think there’s a world where okc trades Giddey +12 for the 3rd pick + a 2nd rounder?

OKC would absolutely do that because Giddey’s game has fallen off so much that they can’t close games with him the floor. They’d pack his bags and drive him the airport. He’s the only player that Chip has had no effect on. Spurs probably don’t do it for that pick.

[spurraider21]

I keep waffling on whether i like Sheppard or not. I don’t trust his penetration or footspeed but then again there are historic comps for that type of player succeeding like Hinrich or FVV

not even getting into nash/curry/price stuff because he isn’t remotely as crafty as either and i don’t see that path for him

[baseline bum]

Why do people have such a hardon for trading Vassell. :rollin

Don't know how me saying I'd trade Vassell if an impossible thing happened equates to me having a hard-on to trade Vassell.

[Degoat]

OKC would absolutely do that because Giddey’s game has fallen off so much that they can’t close games with him the floor. They’d pack his bags and drive him the airport. He’s the only player that Chip has had no effect on. Spurs probably don’t do it for that pick.

He’s played better as of late, idk if I’d do it just because a top 3 pick is so tantalizing. I still like Giddey as a player, just don’t know if that’s a move that puts us in the right direction.

[JPB]

Agreed, but we all know Sochan isn't going anywhere for probably a long time and as bad a shooter as he is, it's still less damaging than someone who'd play as the de facto lead guard.

Not so sure personnally. I don't believe anyone is safe on this team, safe Devin maybe. Sochan has shown limitations that time can't really fix, or not significantly enough. And you can't teach size. He can't be a stretch 4, and can't really defend opposing bigs. OK, he's versatile and all, but as his time as PG showed, not elite on any other facet of the game that would make him untradable for the right move.

And I dont know if he had that desire, that fire to be great. He can look a bit loose or disinterested at times, like if he doesn't feel like it, he just won't give his all.

[JPB]

I believe it's fair to say no rookie from this draft will reach legit NBA starter level before several years (or at leat from scratch) and thus instantly improve the team, quite the contrary. No PG in this class would be an instant upgrade from Tre (if they ever will) who would keep on starting.

So it's hard to imagine anything wihtout knowng if spurs actually intend to improve the competitivity of the team for next season or if they continue drafting and developing prospects... One thing is sure, spurs won't be that much better just adding two rookies, no matter which ones, quite the opposite, since you'll have to find time to give to another two inexperienced youngsters, which also means no place for a couple vets.

[exstatic]

I believe it's fair to say no rookie from this draft will reach legit NBA starter level before several years (or at leat from scratch) and thus instantly improve the team, quite the contrary. No PG in this class would be an instant upgrade from Tre who would keep on starting.

So it's hard to imagine anything wihtout knowng if spurs actually intend to improve the competitivity of the team for next season or if they continue drafting and developing prospects... One thing is sure, spurs won't be that much better just adding two rookies, no matter which ones, quite the opposite, since you'll have to find time to give to another two inexperienced youngsters, which also means no place for a couple vets.

They can both draft players, and go get 2,3 vets. It’s not an either/or proposition.

[sfernald]

OKC would absolutely do that because Giddey’s game has fallen off so much that they can’t close games with him the floor. They’d pack his bags and drive him the airport. He’s the only player that Chip has had no effect on. Spurs probably don’t do it for that pick.

Not true at all. Giddey has picked things up at the end of this season big time. He just got a big triple double at the garden. He’s absolutely untouchable if he plays this way in the playoffs. He’s shooting like 40% for three too recently. That window of hope has closed for the Spurs. I think if Okc trades him, it will be for a star at this point like sign and trade Paul George, Klay Thompson or KD if Clippers, Warriors or Suns flop and decide to retool.

[Pauleta14]

Not so sure personnally. I don't believe anyone is safe on this team, safe Devin maybe. Sochan has shown limitations that time can't really fix, or not significantly enough. And you can't teach size. He can't be a stretch 4, and can't really defend opposing bigs. OK, he's versatile and all, but as his time as PG showed, not elite on any other facet of the game that would make him untradable for the right move.

And I dont know if he had that desire, that fire to be great. He can look a bit loose or disinterested at times, like if he doesn't feel like it, he just won't give his all.

Pop's become a real sentimental and LOVES Sochan, just listening to the way he talks about him or his Manu comparisons (yes he did do that :lol), he's going nowhere. We just have to hope he goes to the bench a bit more and develops a shot

[JPB]

They can both draft players, and go get 2,3 vets. It’s not an either/or proposition.

I believe it is to some fashion, specially if you want to keet most of the current roster. There's only so much playing time you can distribute, unless you want to keep your rookies on the deep bench or get rid of some of the current "core" guys. Adding two rookies and two vets to that team, that's FOUR new players to find time for in the current roster, without moving players you want to keep.

where do spurs need to upgrade?

- PG: if you draft a PG, and sign a vet PG, do you downgrade Tre at the 3rd string spot, knowing he'll be better than you rookie PG who will necessarily struggle at the hardest position in the league with Wemby to feed and make happy? I like Tre as a back up and you'd have to find time for Vet PG, rookie, Tre, Blake...

- SF: If you draft a SF, then sign a vet SF you have distribute time between vet SF / Keldon / Champagnie /Rookie / Branham eventually (and Cedi if he's kept).

- A big/PF: If you draft a froncourt guy, you have to distribute time between Vic, vet big, rookie, Zach, Sochan, Barlow, Sidy, Mamu, Bassey... (you'd obviously have to let some of these guys go).

- If you draft a SG, then sign a SG, you'll have to distibute time between, vet SG, Devin, rookie, Malaki/Champagnie, maybe Graham (that some want to keep)...

[TD 21]

Is this a model that can work in the pros? Or does the NBA need a lot more spacing than this type of roster can provide?

No. Not nearly enough shooting (which the threshold for, in terms of whether defenses will actually respect it, keeps increasing) and play making.

Stat geeks nerds keep fetishizing this type of construction and so those who want to sound informed keep regurgitating it as if it's the only possible way to construct a roster to win a championship (not saying you), yet the Celtics, who've best exemplified it, haven't won because they don't have an MVP player.

People questioned whether Jokic could anchor a good enough defense to win a championship and were proven wrong in resounding fashion.

If, as expected, Wembanyama eventually displaces him as the best player in the world, they should be able to get away with a less than ideal roster construction if the talent/fit is good enough because greatness find a way.




Not so sure personnally. I don't believe anyone is safe on this team, safe Devin maybe. Sochan has shown limitations that time can't really fix, or not significantly enough. And you can't teach size. He can't be a stretch 4, and can't really defend opposing bigs. OK, he's versatile and all, but as his time as PG showed, not elite on any other facet of the game that would make him untradable for the right move.

And I dont know if he had that desire, that fire to be great. He can look a bit loose or disinterested at times, like if he doesn't feel like it, he just won't give his all.

I'm not advocating for him being virtually off limits (on the contrary actually), I'm just saying he more than likely is.

[JPB]

I'm not advocating for him being virtually off limits (on the contrary actually), I'm just saying he more than likely is.

We know our spurs, but can Wemby make PATFO change their ways? I don't exclude it.

[spurraider21]

If Kolek is gone by the 2nd round we should take Caitlin Clark tbh

[mystargtr34]

I think the Nuggets roster construction is a good one for the Spurs to follow given they have a generational big man like the Spurs now do. The Nuggets model is also similar to the Duncan-Spurs model.

C - Jokic (generational big man)

PF - Gordon (vertical spacer, dunker spot guy who is solid defensively, solid on the boards, glue guy)

SF - MPJ (third scoring option, floor spacer)

SG - KCP (3-D guy, guards opponents best guard or wing)

PG - Murray (second option, capable of scoring 30 on any given night)

For the Spurs, I see them as having only two of those positions filled.

C - Wemby
PF - TBA
SF - TBA
SG - Vassell (our MPJ, third scoring option on a contender, floor spacer)
PG - TBA

I don’t see Sochan fitting into any starting lineup that wants to win a championship, not now and not in 5 years, too many flaws in his game. Perhaps as a solid bench guy 7th or 8th man aka a Malik Rose, or Boris Diaw yes. So he’s worth keeping around for that.

I don’t see Vassell as a second option on a contender. I could however see him as a third scoring option who can put up 15-20 PPG on solid efficiency while spacing the floor.

In this draft Spurs could potentially fill out two of the remaining three spots in their future contending SL. We need our Jamal Murray as a second option. The only one I see that fits that bill right now is Rob Dillingham.

I can see Risacher as being another third scoring option aka MPJ but then there’s a duplication of role with Vassell. Cody Williams could be thr 3-D guy possibly at thr 3 spot, which is the KCP role.

I see a lot of 3rd options on contenders in this draft but no number 2 other than perhaps Dilly. But that comes with other shortcomings like size, defense.

[Ditty]

If TIMVP was right, that the Spurs had high interest in Amen Thompson if they didn't land pick #1. I could see BW interested in Castle. Looking into a bigger athletic guard prototype that could possibly guard three positions. I still think it's Risacher, Castle, Topic, Salaun, Dillingham, and Sheppard in that draft order on the Spurs board.

[BackHome]

I believe it is to some fashion, specially if you want to keet most of the current roster. There's only so much playing time you can distribute, unless you want to keep your rookies on the deep bench or get rid of some of the current "core" guys. Adding two rookies and two vets to that team, that's FOUR new players to find time for in the current roster, without moving players you want to keep.

where do spurs need to upgrade?

- PG: if you draft a PG, and sign a vet PG, do you downgrade Tre at the 3rd string spot, knowing he'll be better than you rookie PG who will necessarily struggle at the hardest position in the league with Wemby to feed and make happy? I like Tre as a back up and you'd have to find time for Vet PG, rookie, Tre, Blake...

- SF: If you draft a SF, then sign a vet SF you have distribute time between vet SF / Keldon / Champagnie /Rookie / Branham eventually (and Cedi if he's kept).

- A big: If you draft a big, you have to distribute time between Vic, vet big, rookie, Zach, Sochan, Barlow, Bassey... (you'll obviously have to cut some of these guys).

- If you draft a SG, then sign a SG, you'll have to distibute time between, vet SG, Devin, rookie, Malaki/Champagnie, maybe Graham (that some want to keep)...j

I think this draft will set the record for the amount of first round picks playing in the G League there first year of contract.

[rascal]

Agreed, but we all know Sochan isn't going anywhere for probably a long time and as bad a shooter as he is, it's still less damaging than someone who'd play as the de facto lead guard.

Castle won't necessarily be the lead guard but be a combo guard playing both the 1 and 2 and be in a three guard roation with Vassell and another pg to be determined later who shoots well.

Spurs are going to have to add a solid backcourt defender who also does bring some ability to score with athleticism taking it to the basket to this roster and Castle fits there.

This draft is not going to produce the finsihed product of a team so you can't look at it that way. Castle fills a need on the team and will provide a good fit to a three guard rotation.

[LeBowen]

If we're to actually compete, we can't allow to have two non-shooters on the perimeter positions playing together.

No need to look further than current rookies.
Henderson was projected to be the next Russ/DRose and he's completely lost out there without a jumpshot because he's not an athlete on that level.
Thompson twins would easily go as #1 and #2 this year and they're useless without a jumpshot.

None of the guards in this draft are convincing, there's no reason to take a guard that's a long way from being a finished product if we can take a wing with similar flaws.
If we're to draft a guard, I'd rather take a gamble on Dillingham than any of these guards who will likely never be able to shoot off the dribble.

[TD 21]

Castle won't necessarily be the lead guard but be a combo guard playing both the 1 and 2 and be in a three guard roation with Vassell and another pg to be determined later who shoots well.

Spurs are going to have to add a solid backcourt defender who also does bring some ability to score with athleticism taking it to the basket to this roster and Castle fits there.

This draft is not going to produce the finsihed product of a team so you can't look at it that way. Castle fills a need on the team and will provide a good fit to a three guard rotation.

Castle fits on a team that has four out spacing, so that he can be utilized in the short role, dunker spot, etc., like how the Rockets have utilized Thompson with Sengun out.

This team doesn't have that nor anyone on the perimeter who can serve as a primary creator and has no business so much as thinking about adding to either of those deficits.

Outside of that construct, if he can't become a non liability shooter, than he's a backup. Not the way to spend a probable top 5 pick.

[rascal]

Castle fits on a team that has four out spacing, so that he can be utilized in the short role, dunker spot, etc., like how the Rockets have utilized Thompson with Sengun out.

This team doesn't have that nor anyone on the perimeter who can serve as a primary creator and has no business so much as thinking about adding to either of those deficits.

Outside of that construct, if he can't become a non liability shooter, than he's a backup. Not the way to spend a probable top 5 pick.

Spurs are not a finished product. Castle will be fine after they add more pieces.

[TD 21]

Spurs are not a finished product. Castle will be fine after they add more pieces.

The point is, his archetype has a high bust rate and is a tricky fit even when they're not.

The only scenario I could see where he could be a fit is if they acquire one of the oft discussed star or top starter small guards, he could be the Jones replacement (would presumably go in the exchange), but again a probable top 5 pick on a player who's ceiling would probably be 6th man.

[mo7888]

I think the Nuggets roster construction is a good one for the Spurs to follow given they have a generational big man like the Spurs now do. The Nuggets model is also similar to the Duncan-Spurs model.

C - Jokic (generational big man)

PF - Gordon (vertical spacer, dunker spot guy who is solid defensively, solid on the boards, glue guy)

SF - MPJ (third scoring option, floor spacer)

SG - KCP (3-D guy, guards opponents best guard or wing)

PG - Murray (second option, capable of scoring 30 on any given night)

For the Spurs, I see them as having only two of those positions filled.

C - Wemby
PF - TBA
SF - TBA
SG - Vassell (our MPJ, third scoring option on a contender, floor spacer)
PG - TBA

I don’t see Sochan fitting into any starting lineup that wants to win a championship, not now and not in 5 years, too many flaws in his game. Perhaps as a solid bench guy 7th or 8th man aka a Malik Rose, or Boris Diaw yes. So he’s worth keeping around for that.

I don’t see Vassell as a second option on a contender. I could however see him as a third scoring option who can put up 15-20 PPG on solid efficiency while spacing the floor.

In this draft Spurs could potentially fill out two of the remaining three spots in their future contending SL. We need our Jamal Murray as a second option. The only one I see that fits that bill right now is Rob Dillingham.

I can see Risacher as being another third scoring option aka MPJ but then there’s a duplication of role with Vassell. Cody Williams could be thr 3-D guy possibly at thr 3 spot, which is the KCP role.

I see a lot of 3rd options on contenders in this draft but no number 2 other than perhaps Dilly. But that comes with other shortcomings like size, defense.

I'm not sure Vassell is the 3rd scorer/floor spacer ala MPJ. I know that's what they want him to be, but I think he's more of a KCP 3D defender who's not getting it done on the D part.

I also don't think the parts have to match the Denver model as laid out here. That works for them, but it can work differently for other teams just like it worked differently for the Spurs in their championship years.

[exstatic]

I believe it is to some fashion, specially if you want to keet most of the current roster. There's only so much playing time you can distribute, unless you want to keep your rookies on the deep bench or get rid of some of the current "core" guys. Adding two rookies and two vets to that team, that's FOUR new players to find time for in the current roster, without moving players you want to keep.

where do spurs need to upgrade?

- PG: if you draft a PG, and sign a vet PG, do you downgrade Tre at the 3rd string spot, knowing he'll be better than you rookie PG who will necessarily struggle at the hardest position in the league with Wemby to feed and make happy? I like Tre as a back up and you'd have to find time for Vet PG, rookie, Tre, Blake...

- SF: If you draft a SF, then sign a vet SF you have distribute time between vet SF / Keldon / Champagnie /Rookie / Branham eventually (and Cedi if he's kept).

- A big/PF: If you draft a froncourt guy, you have to distribute time between Vic, vet big, rookie, Zach, Sochan, Barlow, Sidy, Mamu, Bassey... (you'd obviously have to let some of these guys go).

- If you draft a SG, then sign a SG, you'll have to distibute time between, vet SG, Devin, rookie, Malaki/Champagnie, maybe Graham (that some want to keep)...

I don’t believe that’s a given, at all. Any or all of the following, and I like these guys, could be gone: Mamukelashvili, Devonte, Bassey, Barlow, or Cissoko. None of them would cost much to just flat cut.

[baseline bum]

If TIMVP was right, that the Spurs had high interest in Amen Thompson if they didn't land pick #1. I could see BW interested in Castle. Looking into a bigger athletic guard prototype that could possibly guard three positions. I still think it's Risacher, Castle, Topic, Salaun, Dillingham, and Sheppard in that draft order on the Spurs board.

Didn't really think of that but yeah Castle is like a poor man's Amen. Then again Amen would have been drafted to a roster with no high-end teammates he'd have to fit in next to, as he would have been the system here, so different situation now with Wemby here.

[rascal]

The point is, his archetype has a high bust rate and is a tricky fit even when they're not.

The only scenario I could see where he could be a fit is if they acquire one of the oft discussed star or top starter small guards, he could be the Jones replacement (would presumably go in the exchange), but again a probable top 5 pick on a player who's ceiling would probably be 6th man.

He isn't going to be a bust. He would be a solid player in a three guard rotation able to play the 1 or 2 and worth a top 5 pick in this draft. There are no all star upside players in this draft other than possibly Sarr.

[Dejounte]

18 minutes
0 points
0% FG
0-2 3PA
2 rebounds
2 assists
3 turnovers

Latest game for Zaccharie

”i WoUlD StIlL DrAFt HiM! IT’s JuST A RoOkIe SlUmP. heS GOt AlL tHe ToOlz.”

[spurraider21]

18 minutes
0 points
0% FG
0-2 3PA
2 rebounds
2 assists
3 turnovers

Latest game for Zaccharie

”i WoUlD StIlL DrAFt HiM! IT’s JuST A RoOkIe SlUmP. heS GOt AlL tHe ToOlz.”
Good good. Lower his draft stock so we can get him later without having to win the lottery

[baseline bum]

18 minutes
0 points
0% FG
0-2 3PA
2 rebounds
2 assists
3 turnovers

Latest game for Zaccharie

”i WoUlD StIlL DrAFt HiM! IT’s JuST A RoOkIe SlUmP. heS GOt AlL tHe ToOlz.”

Problem is are going to draft Topic who was a scrub in Euroleague and now is just sitting out the season? Sarr who could only earn like 13MPG in the NBL playoffs? Buzelis who has shown no shooting aptitude in G-League? Holland, Walters, or Collier who had horrific seasons and came nowhere close to the preseason hype? Sheppard and Dillingham who are little shrimps? Castle who cannot shoot? Soft ass Cody Williams who looks invisible on the floor half the time? Every single lottery prospect in this draft has major red flags and strong bust potential.

[TD 21]

He isn't going to be a bust. He's a solid player in a three guard rotation and worth a top 5 pick in this draft. There are no all star upside players in this draft other than possibly Sarr.

I don't care what draft it is, if I'm picking top 5 I at least want a projected starter/closer long term.

Big combo guards who can't shoot almost always end up as busts because they never become good enough shooters, but there's always some sucker who think they'll be the ones to "unlock" them because their shooting coach and developmental program are superior.

[Dejounte]

Problem is are going to draft Topic who was a scrub in Euroleague and now is just sitting out the season? Sarr who could only earn like 13MPG in the NBL playoffs? Buzelis who has shown no shooting aptitude in G-League? Holland, Walters, or Collier who had horrific seasons and came nowhere close to the preseason hype? Sheppard and Dillingham who are little shrimps? Castle who cannot shoot? Soft ass Cody Williams who looks invisible on the floor half the time? Every single lottery prospect in this draft has major red flags and strong bust potential.

For any of those players you listed if they had the games that Risacher has been having they would fall off the face of the earth. Risacher is invincible as far as his draft status goes. And having this long of a slump isn’t similar to having a weakness in his game as the others do— it should be seen as a serious red flag and it should question his overall talent altogether. But the excuses keep piling up because he had a fluky run with his 3 pt percentage and he’s tall. That’s it.

[LeBowen]

As per usual, combine and team workouts will be the deciding factor.

[Dejounte]

We screamin “Wemby needs help!!” today and then tomorrow when Zaccharie gives us 0, 0, 0 stat lines everybody’s gonna have their Pikachu faces like they didn’t know this would happen. Smh

[KobesAchilles]

We screamin “Wemby needs help!!” today and then tomorrow when Zaccharie gives us 0, 0, 0 stat lines everybody’s gonna have their Pikachu faces like they didn’t know this would happen. Smh
Do you think he can hit an open 3? Bc a lot of his looks are going to be wide open.

[baseline bum]

For any of those players you listed if they had the games that Risacher has been having they would fall off the face of the earth.

Topic hasn't, I still see him top 3 in mocks

[Mal]

This feels like a draft when dude from 5-15 spot would be the real deal

[exstatic]

This feels like a draft when dude from 5-15 spot would be the real deal

Like 2020?

[baseline bum]

This feels like a draft when dude from 5-15 spot would be the real deal

Could be like 2000 where no one in the first round had anything sniffing all-star talent.

[Mal]

Like 2020?

Covid draft were different, but looks like. Sarr, Risacher and Topic all have bust in them

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/AndrewKSchlecht/status/1777106292223455694

[Mr. Body]

Risacher never should have been spotted that high. But then there was a vacuum up top and someone had to go there. He's going top 10 regardless because some owner and the owner's son is going to yell at their GM.

The supposed lottery-grade SFs:

Risacher
Holland
Williams
Buzelis

None of them feel particularly great. I feel the most about Buzelis. Williams is sorta okay but, really, I'd take a look at Kyshawn George. He might start moving up once workouts happen. He's a bit raw, but has the ball-handling, shooting, and potential defense you want. Right now I think he's tail end of the lottery with movement still going on.

[BackHome]

I think this draft in the first round is going to be very unpredictable and people are going to be shocked who gets drafted where...

[exstatic]

I think this draft in the first round is going to be very unpredictable and people are going to be shocked who gets drafted where...

I think that’s impossible, because there isn’t even a consensus #1, let alone any kind of consensus order. You can only be surprised if you expect something, and there’s nothing to expect. Your personal board may get blown up, but then so will everyone’s.

[Mr. Body]

I don't get how we constantly get torched by guards for 50 and 60 points and the prissy folks on here don't want to consider a really good defensive guard prospect. Make it make sense.

[CorrectCrusader]

I don't get how we constantly get torched by guards for 50 and 60 points and the prissy folks on here don't want to consider a really good defensive guard prospect. Make it make sense.
https://imgs.search.brave.com/Rw7M0F0IK0DwwTc2uni3LvZAXTMFGnRshJxVO_AgGJ8/rs:fit:860:0:0/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cu/c2kuY29tLy5pbWFn/ZS9jX2xpbWl0LGNz/X3NyZ2IsZmxfcHJv/Z3Jlc3NpdmUscV9h/dXRvOmdvb2Qsd183/MDAvTWpBME1UY3dN/VFkyTURrM09UUTJO/VEE1L3VzYXRzaV8y/MjQzNTExOC5qcGc

[CorrectCrusader]

The problem with drafting a player like Castle is that we have bum ass Sochan starting for us. Easier to feel good about it right now because Sochan is injured, but when he comes back, imagine having Castle or another non shooter with sochan on the floor. Disgusting.

[DAF86]

I don't get how we constantly get torched by guards for 50 and 60 points and the prissy folks on here don't want to consider a really good defensive guard prospect. Make it make sense.

I remember the hard on everybody had for Anthony Black last season. Wanting to trade up to get him and pair him with Wemby. Dude can't even crack the rotation in Orlando. Guards that can't shoot don't work in the NBA anymore.

[exstatic]

I remember the hard on everybody had for Anthony Black last season. Wanting to trade up to get him and pair him with Wemby. Dude can't even crack the rotation in Orlando. Guards that can't shoot don't work in the NBA anymore.

I would say he’s in their rotation, having started 33/65 games. He’s also shooting 38.5% from 3.

[BackHome]

I would easily take Anthony over most of the players mocked in this draft lottery

[DAF86]

I would say he’s in their rotation, having started 33/65 games. He’s also shooting 38.5% from 3.

That was to start the season, currently, and heading into the playoffs, he's out of the rotation.

The decent 3pt shooting % in low volume is useless, how many times do we have to go through it?

[baseline bum]

That was to start the season, currently, and heading into the playoffs, he's out of the rotation.

The decent 3pt shooting % in low volume is useless, how many times do we have to go through it?

Jesus Christ, a PG with an 8.4 PER is pathetic. And wow 1.4 3FGA per game by Anthony Bird.

[KobesAchilles]

Draft Dilly and Buzelis. We need a guard who can shoot and create for others. And I think Buz will learn how to shoot. He’s white. How can he not shoot? :lol

[scott]

I don’t believe that’s a given, at all. Any or all of the following, and I like these guys, could be gone: Mamukelashvili, Devonte, Bassey, Barlow, or Cissoko. None of them would cost much to just flat cut.

I believe @JBP’s point is that creating space isn’t just a matter of roster spots - it’s a matter of minutes. You could cut all those guys, but you still haven’t created any actual playing time for four new players, because none of these guys actually plays any meaningful minutes.

For the Spurs to really change things up, there are going to have to move on from some players who play meaningful minutes right now (Keldon for example, Cedi is a more obvious choice on lesser minutes), or demote some of them (Julian, Tre, Branham would be candidates). They should do these things, but it’s not clear they will.

[TD 21]

I don't get how we constantly get torched by guards for 50 and 60 points and the prissy folks on here don't want to consider a really good defensive guard prospect. Make it make sense.

The archaic, miserable folks don't realize the league has basically outlawed individual defense on the perimeter, so they can only have so much impact.

It's "target" basketball anyway. Unless you have no defensive liabilities, teams will play screen/re-screen until they get the switch and attack the weak link.



I remember the hard on everybody had for Anthony Black last season. Wanting to trade up to get him and pair him with Wemby. Dude can't even crack the rotation in Orlando. Guards that can't shoot don't work in the NBA anymore.

Not me.

He does have Suggs, Harris, Anthony and Fultz ahead of him. Not exactly a murderer's row, but four legit rotational guards. Fultz and possibly Harris are goners, so he'll be in it next season though.

[scott]

I think this draft in the first round is going to be very unpredictable and people are going to be shocked who gets drafted where...

I agree. Givony is referring to Clingan as a Top-5 pick and Edey as a Lotto pick… and he may not actually be wrong. This draft could have a lot of surprises.

[scott]

I don't get how we constantly get torched by guards for 50 and 60 points and the prissy folks on here don't want to consider a really good defensive guard prospect. Make it make sense.

Yeah maybe we get torched by guards for 50 or 60… but we also get torched by forwards and centers for careers high too. Don’t sell the rest of the team short!

[JPB]

Yeah please, let's draft another guard who can't shoot in an offensive oriented league so defenses can triple team Victor. We need another Wesley on that team.

Speaking of, drafting a PG would mean giving up on really developing Wesley (not saying he had any future there) at that position, 2 years after drafting him and being excited because... we needed a PG. And probably giving up entirely on him since I do'nt see where you find playing time in the backcourt rotation above Devin, Keldon or Branham (not to mention the Champagnies and Cedis). Welcome in 3rd string world Blake, see ya in Europe in 2 years.

In other words, another failed picked for the spurs who haven't drafted a star ( Wemby put asides) in 10 years but who would find two this year in a meh draft... first focus and take opportunities in trades and FA tbh.

[exstatic]

That was to start the season, currently, and heading into the playoffs, he's out of the rotation.

The decent 3pt shooting % in low volume is useless, how many times do we have to go through it?

Yeah, he’s a rookie on the #3 seed in the east. His leash isn’t going to be long going into the playoffs. It’s also not useless to be able to hit 3s when left open.

[Vienna]

I think this draft in the first round is going to be very unpredictable and people are going to be shocked who gets drafted where...

I (kind of) used this point some weeks ago, when I asked why McCain isn't in the same conversation as Sheppard. back then I guessed McCain might become the best shooter from this draft class and after the Tournament I'm pretty sure he will. (I didn't check, but his 16-32 from 3 should be the best number of all players in the tournament). no player shoots better of the dribble than he does.
and it wasn't him who folded in the spotlight, it were his more experienced teammates, it was clearly on display who from this Duke team is made for the big stage.
most mocks have moved him up a bit, I guess the highest I read was pick 12, but again, I'm sure he will be a top 10 Pick. (and my hope for the Toronto pick, if it conveys)

talking about players who might get draftet much higher than mocks predict, I see Hunter Sallis and DaRon Holmes. yes, they are Juniors and a bit older, but imo currently underrated big time. if they were there at 33, either would be a no brainer, but I think they will be picked higher, maybe mid first round. (and I would pick Holmes over Flip anytime).
Sallis is an interesting case considering the huge jump he did from his Gonzaga years. if we are talking about guards who can defend, he can (shades of Dejounte Murray?). and now he can also shoot (if this season wasn't a fluke) and do more or less a bit of everything.

[Strategic]

It sucks that okc was able to take our shooting guru from underneath us. Just wondering if Rylan Griffen makes anyone’s prospect radar? The only times I watched him this year was in the tournament but he looked to have some good tools, especially shooting.

[Mr. Body]

Basically, routes in the 1-8 lottery:

- Small forward.

Risacher, Buzelis, Holland, Williams. Each seems like a project and won't solve any wing issues right away. Each is more of a project, which is okay, but all of them have shooting issues. Risacher has fallen off a cliff for a while now. Williams is efficient but doesn't shoot much. Someone did point out that Holland's numbers match very closely to fellow Ignite alum Jonathan Kuminga and that he's an absolute dog in some aspects of defense. That's intriguing.

- Guard (Offensive Type)

Dillingham, Topic, Collier. Each of these has issues on defense. Each of them may be a good get on offense. You're probably looking at a guy who can get offenses going, run pick-and-rolls, and either threaten the rim or the perimeter, possibly both. You may have to totally give up on defense with these guys and hope they come around with work.

- Guard (Defensive Type)

Castle. Can he run an offense? Maybe not at the top level you'd want, at least for now, but he can certainly initiate and get players the ball. Not incredibly quick, he can get to the rim more with strength and movement. Won't be a threat from outside, but his initial value is as a potential elite defender. He's caused a lot of problems for lead scorers in the tournament so far.

- Utility Guard

Reed Sheppard. I don't project Sheppard as a lead guard or as a defensive stopper. He's not quick enough, nor has the processing, shiftiness, or handles, to really run an offense. I'd love to be wrong about this, but as a kick-out destination he could be great. He's also not a defensive stopper but is a strong help defender who may become part of a good overall defense.

So... These are our choices. You can't pick a player who is not in the draft. If you don't go for a small forward project, then you go for a guard. And you pretty much have to decide offense or defense as early primary traits. The team needs both. The value of a Castle is that you have someone who may be able to slow down Jalen Brunson or Maxey and evolve into more. Yes, there are problems with starting next to Sochan, but Castle would be coming off the bench at first anyway.

[rascal]

Dillingham

I don't like him at all. If his shooting goes down the drain like it did in the NCAA first game tourney then he brings next to nothing. Sheppard is even worse becasue he isn't as good of an offensive player.
Both of those guards are way over rated. Two top ten picks can't get their team a single win in the NCAA tourney.

[JPB]

There could be one or two guys sneaking their way up into the lottery, and order might change, but I believe the future top 10 picks (and spurs one(s)) are in Givony's last lottery IMHO. I also believe Risacher and Sarr are locked in the top 2-3.

1. Risacher.
2. Sarr
3. Clingan.
4.Dillingham.
5. Topic (question mark).
6. Buzelis
7. Sheppard
8. Knecht
9. Cody Williams
10. Collier
11. Ja'Kobe Walter
12.Ron Holland,
13. Zach Edey
14. Stephon Castle.

[BacktoBasics]

I would say he’s in their rotation, having started 33/65 games. He’s also shooting 38.5% from 3.

He’s also playing behind some vets. I’ve asked a few Magic fans about their perception and he’s very well received. They expect his role to increase significantly once there’s more clarity around Fultz. Black is also viewed as a player that can fill a lot of holes. 1-4 and small ball.

They’re not overly concerned with his shooting. It has been more consistent than they expected.

[Mr. Body]

Dillingham

I don't like him at all. If his shooting goes down the drain like it did in the NCAA first game tourney then he brings next to nothing. Sheppard is even worse becasue he isn't as good of an offensive player.
Both of those guards are way over rated. Two top ten picks can't get their team a single win in the NCAA tourney.

I'm a little tired of these takes on the last game of the year for Dillingham. It's just lazy and inept.

Kentucky wasn't prepared for a zone. This is on Calipari. Apparently he asked a team during exhibition season to not run a zone against them. People now saying Calipari never scouted teams and opponents saying Kentucky was the easiest team to scout -- they always did the same thing. Oakland ran a zone.

Gohlke was slaying them. They tried Sheppard on him, and he had his usual trouble. They had Dillingham on him and with his quickness he did... alright. Characteristic to him, he would help off Gohlke, like unbelievably bad ideas, but that's also coaching. Dillingham made absurdly bad rotations all year, which I chalk up to a history of never being coached. (He was at Kanye West's academy and then Overtime Elite.)

Running around after Gohlke must have been tiring him out.

Down the stretch, he was trying to get them back in it, like he did all season. Conspicuously, Reed Sheppard was nowhere to be found. None of the other recruits were to be found. Reaves was good, but he had to be set up. Dillingham was not good down the stretch, but again he had a defensive assignment he'd never had before. And when he nailed a pretty crazy three, he never saw the ball again.

After he hit that bomb, the next possession, Sheppard slow-dribbled up and launched this baffling covered three that wasn't even close. Calipari called his first timeout the entire game, I believe, with seconds left to go.

I'm not defending Dillingham necessarily. I don't think the Spurs will take him. He has issues. But the blame he gets for this game is just so casual it's almost hilarious.

[rascal]

It sucks that okc was able to take our shooting guru from underneath us. Just wondering if Rylan Griffen makes anyone’s prospect radar? The only times I watched him this year was in the tournament but he looked to have some good tools, especially shooting.

Why was that? They offered more money?

[rascal]

I'm a little tired of these takes on the last game of the year for Dillingham. It's just lazy and inept.

Kentucky wasn't prepared for a zone. This is on Calipari. Apparently he asked a team during exhibition season to not run a zone against them. People now saying Calipari never scouted teams and opponents saying Kentucky was the easiest team to scout -- they always did the same thing. Oakland ran a zone.

Gohlke was slaying them. They tried Sheppard on him, and he had his usual trouble. They had Dillingham on him and with his quickness he did... alright. Characteristic to him, he would help off Gohlke, like unbelievably bad ideas, but that's also coaching. Dillingham made absurdly bad rotations all year, which I chalk up to a history of never being coached. (He was at Kanye West's academy and then Overtime Elite.)

Running around after Gohlke must have been tiring him out.

Down the stretch, he was trying to get them back in it, like he did all season. Conspicuously, Reed Sheppard was nowhere to be found. None of the other recruits were to be found. Reaves was good, but he had to be set up. Dillingham was not good down the stretch, but again he had a defensive assignment he'd never had before. And when he nailed a pretty crazy three, he never saw the ball again.

After he hit that bomb, the next possession, Sheppard slow-dribbled up and launched this baffling covered three that wasn't even close. Calipari called his first timeout the entire game, I believe, with seconds left to go.

I'm not defending Dillingham necessarily. I don't think the Spurs will take him. He has issues. But the blame he gets for this game is just so casual it's almost hilarious.

So he had a bad shooting game because he had to guard someone and was tired. You have to come up with a better excuse than that.

The team didn't come up big in a big time spot and since he's their top player and had a poor shooting game yeah much of the blame is going to fall on him.

[mo7888]

Basically, routes in the 1-8 lottery:

- Small forward.

Risacher, Buzelis, Holland, Williams. Each seems like a project and won't solve any wing issues right away. Each is more of a project, which is okay, but all of them have shooting issues. Risacher has fallen off a cliff for a while now. Williams is efficient but doesn't shoot much. Someone did point out that Holland's numbers match very closely to fellow Ignite alum Jonathan Kuminga and that he's an absolute dog in some aspects of defense. That's intriguing.

- Guard (Offensive Type)

Dillingham, Topic, Collier. Each of these has issues on defense. Each of them may be a good get on offense. You're probably looking at a guy who can get offenses going, run pick-and-rolls, and either threaten the rim or the perimeter, possibly both. You may have to totally give up on defense with these guys and hope they come around with work.

- Guard (Defensive Type)

Castle. Can he run an offense? Maybe not at the top level you'd want, at least for now, but he can certainly initiate and get players the ball. Not incredibly quick, he can get to the rim more with strength and movement. Won't be a threat from outside, but his initial value is as a potential elite defender. He's caused a lot of problems for lead scorers in the tournament so far.

- Utility Guard

Reed Sheppard. I don't project Sheppard as a lead guard or as a defensive stopper. He's not quick enough, nor has the processing, shiftiness, or handles, to really run an offense. I'd love to be wrong about this, but as a kick-out destination he could be great. He's also not a defensive stopper but is a strong help defender who may become part of a good overall defense.

So... These are our choices. You can't pick a player who is not in the draft. If you don't go for a small forward project, then you go for a guard. And you pretty much have to decide offense or defense as early primary traits. The team needs both. The value of a Castle is that you have someone who may be able to slow down Jalen Brunson or Maxey and evolve into more. Yes, there are problems with starting next to Sochan, but Castle would be coming off the bench at first anyway.

I think those are pretty good observations. A couple things where I differ a little bit is on Dilly and Shephard. On Dilly I'm having a hard time seeing him being useful, because of his size, if his shooting drops off. There's no real 2nd skill that im confident in. On Shephard, I agree with the utility guard eval, but I do think he's got enough court vision and handle to develop into a lead guard in certain offenses.

[scott]

I really don't like any of these guards.

I'd probably go with two forwards if we get the TOR pick, thankfully most of the top guys have position flex to play SF or PF. I'd prefer Buzelis and Holland. I'm not super excited about it, but my hope would be that one pans out in a big way and the other at least becomes a serviceable backup.

Probably still looking to just trade at least one pick though.

[SpursBills]

There's been a lot of debate on here about Dillingham and Sheppard's measurements - I've seen a huge range of speculation from 5'11" to 6'3". Whether or not this matters (and I guess we'll see for sure at the combine), Dillingham measured 6' 0.75" barefoot with a 6'5" wingspan at the OTE combine last year, so I think his current measurements will be something similar. Sheppard looks about the same size or slightly bigger, so he'll probably measure similarly.

I've liked Castle's defense this entire tournament and I like that he's bought into the team concept as a role player on a championship team. One thing that is a little bit concerning that hasn't really been mentioned, are his splits against better competition. He's done very well this tournament, but if you break down his splits by top 100 teams and then top 50 teams, you see that his numbers drop across the board against better competition. BPM, offensive rating, 2pt%, 3pt% all go down while TO% goes up with better competition. This is not something that you see for other guard prospects like Sheppard, Dillingham, Devin Carter, or Isaiah Collier whose numbers hold constant or even go up a little against better teams. Not sure if this is anything significant but definitely something to take into account when evaluating him.

[Mr. Body]

There's been a lot of debate on here about Dillingham and Sheppard's measurements - I've seen a huge range of speculation from 5'11" to 6'3". Whether or not this matters (and I guess we'll see for sure at the combine), Dillingham measured 6' 0.75" barefoot with a 6'5" wingspan at the OTE combine last year, so I think his current measurements will be something similar. Sheppard looks about the same size or slightly bigger, so he'll probably measure similarly.

I've liked Castle's defense this entire tournament and I like that he's bought into the team concept as a role player on a championship team. One thing that is a little bit concerning that hasn't really been mentioned, are his splits against better competition. He's done very well this tournament, but if you break down his splits by top 100 teams and then top 50 teams, you see that his numbers drop across the board against better competition. BPM, offensive rating, 2pt%, 3pt% all go down while TO% goes up with better competition. This is not something that you see for other guard prospects like Sheppard, Dillingham, Devin Carter, or Isaiah Collier whose numbers hold constant or even go up a little against better teams. Not sure if this is anything significant but definitely something to take into account when evaluating him.

Good find.

Castle labors to get into the paint and can do it using spins and strength, but his speed isn't exceptional. That's one concern. He has a good feel for the game, but it isn't necessarily superb. Like, say, Sheppard often seems in the right spot for rebounds and such. Castle's very good, though. His handles are fine, his ability to work in the offense are fine. Nice thing, he doesn't turn the ball over much, but I don't think he's going to carve defenses up.

I think he projects as a defensive stopper who can be a combo/lead with great size and strength who you hope can wall off or snuff out opposing guards. He already does a great job of getting into position, harrying opponents without wasted movements, has a Gary Payton-like ability to almost double team immobile opponents (picked up their dribble) by himself - once they pivot to look the other way, he's already there. He walls up very well on drives. He catches up on drivers when going over screens, he navigates those screens overall well.

However, his steal percentage is only 1.8%. Not that steals are necessarily what you want or need, but some say that figure suggests a higher level processing of the game. His steals and blocks overall are low. Dejounte in college had a 2.8% steal percentage. But then UConn values positional/stable defense rather than freelancing. (Dillingham, widely acknowledged as having all kinds of problems on defense, has a 2.4% steal percentage, very good.)

To me, Castle is a draft prospect for competitiveness, ability to quickly fit into the team, and primarily defense, where we get hosed so badly. He'll be able to get the Spurs' motion offense pretty easily, I'd say. The rest, you have to develop. But that's why I keep going back to him or Rob. Each has possibilities of being elite in one area and then you got to accept the rest as possibility.

[cdcast]

If Spurs get a top 3 pick, what could they get for that in a trade?
A weak draft like this, probably better off just keeping pick.

[BatManu20]

Hope they let this kid in. Much more intrigued by him than these other prospects.

6’8 PG with a lot of upside. Can play on and off-ball, but excels with the ball in his hands. Smooth player who can get to the basket and finish or create for others. Has good length and upside defensively. Would be the youngest player in the draft at 18 years & 3 months old on draft night. Sure-fire lottery pick if they allow him to enter this draft, and very likely a top-10 pick. Think the Spurs would be very interested in him tbh.

1777371743759347723

ON_5y0uAkQM?si=4_cJUv-iMdfOzUNB

[scott]

Hope they let this kid in. Much more intrigued by him than these other prospects.

6’8 PG with a lot of upside. Can play on and off-ball, but excels with the ball in his hands. Smooth player who can get to the basket and finish or create for others. Has good length and upside defensively. Would be the youngest player in the draft at 18 years & 3 months old on draft night. Sure-fire lottery pick if they allow him to enter this draft, and very likely a top-10 pick. Think the Spurs would be very interested in him tbh.

1777371743759347723


ON_5y0uAkQM?si=4_cJUv-iMdfOzUNB

Very interesting, I've seen him in some 2025 Draft rankings as a fringe Top-10 pick. Will be interesting to see if his waiver gets anywhere...

[LeBowen]

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that PATFO has some strange pick noone is thinking about lined up yet again.
We'll probably end with 5th best odds for no reason other than them not caring about top picks.

I'd really prefer a forward, but we most likely end up with a point guard. And out of those top4 teams, Wizards are the only team that's looking for a point guard.
But they're also looking for a big and chances are low that they'd take any of these guards over Sarr.

Spurs are more or less guaranteed to draft their prefered guard if they want to.

[Spurs Homer]

Castle getting smoked by that little white boy scrub lol

[Degoat]

I have a feeling Tidjane Salaun is gonna rise rapidly as the draft approaches, especially in a draft like this. Honestly don’t understand how he isn’t higher. If the spurs do want to model building a team like the nuggets, he’s definitely the Aaron Gordon type of mold imo.

[Guru of Nothing]

Bold Prediction: Spurs will draft Ryan Dunn.

And why not? Checks most boxes, except 3 point shot, but the same can be said for every other forward in the draft, right? Everything about this guy screams foundational rotational guy, and *if* he can develop a shot ... to the moon.

Thinking about, my opinion on Dunn hasn't really changed much, but everyone else seems to be falling in my estimation.

[SpursBills]

Based on the Spurs' preferences in the past, I think that they like having a combo guard running the point. With that in mind, I wanted to look at one of my favorite combo guard prospects that hasn't gotten as much here: Devin Carter

The guy is currently mocked in the mid-first so he'd be a reach with either our pick or the conveyed Raptors pick, but he has a lot of indicators suggesting that if only a few things break right, he might be one of the most valuable players to come out of the draft.

Overview
First and foremost, he's probably the second best perimeter defender in the draft after Ryan Dunn. I'd say he probably has the best lateral quickness of anyone in the draft. His numbers support that as well - STL% and BLK% of nearly 3 each are elite numbers for a guard. Additionally, unlike other defense-first upperclassman guards who busted (are busting) out of the league (Davion Mitchell, Jevon Carter), he's got the size and athleticism (26 dunks on the year) to back up his defensive instincts. He's a legit 6'3" with a 6'9" wingspan, and is also an elite rebounding guard - his 14 TRB% compares to that of much taller guys like Ryan Dunn and even Filipowski. He's a combo guard with a big wingspan who plays even bigger, which allows him to hold up on switches while his lateral agility potentially allows him to become a weapon against small shifty guards.

Offensively this year, he's taken a leap. Ever since Bryce Hopkins went down for the season in early January, Carter's been by far the #1 option for Providence and has put up some monster statlines against good competition. 28/11/6/4/1 against #18 Creighton. 24/15/4/2/2 against #2 UConn. 27/8/3/2/1 against #10 Marquette. This is with getting consistently double-teamed as the primary offensive option while still putting up elite defensive numbers. Since Hopkins went down after the new year he's been averaging 22/9/4 on good efficiency.

Shot Diet - Rim pressure and 3s
The biggest question for Carter, like most other defensive guard prospects, is his 3 point shooting. As a bigger defensive guard with high rebounding numbers and elite DAWG/48, my comps for him include Kris Dunn, GP II, and Josh Hart. Dunn and GP II had a lower shooting signal with lower FT%, lower 3pt volume, and lower 3 pt%. It is unsurprising that their outside shooting never came around, although they have found pro success by utilizing their defensive prowess, athleticism, and frame. Hart is a more apt comparison, as a league-average streaky shooter with a similar FT% and a slightly higher 3 pt% on lower volume. However, I would argue that the types of 3s that Carter is shooting (pull-ups, deep 3s) are more difficult as the primary option compared to Hart's shot diet and there is more hope for Carter.

With regards to rim pressure, excluding Nikola Topic, Devin Carter has the best combination of rim attempts and rim finishing (65%) of any of the guard prospects in the draft. By far his biggest weakness is in the midrange, but if you look at his shot diet, it's essentially a modern NBA shot diet with the vast majority of attempts being rim attempts and 3s.

Fit for the Spurs
Interestingly, Carter's combination of frame, defensive versatility, all around goodness, and unfortunate hairline gives him an upside comp very near and dear to most Spurs fans:

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=devin-carter--derrick-white

Just like Derrick developed his defense to become one of the best guard defenders in the NBA in spite of an anemic college steal rate, Carter would have to develop his playmaking chops and continue the development of his outside shot to get to where White is today. This is not impossible - Carter's shown the ability to make advanced PNR reads and hit tight windows with his passing. His shooting has improved year over year. He has an NBA dad who undoubtedly showed him how much work it takes to make it in the league and he by all accounts has a great work ethic. However, if those things do develop appropriately, you're looking at what is probably the ideal point guard next to Wemby, a switchable guard who gives you a POA defender on fast guards to pair with Sochan's ability to defend bigger forwards and who doesn't die on screens or get hunted in mismatches, as well as a guy who can take a portion of the playmaking demands while providing spot of shooting and rim pressure in doses.

Draft Projection
I think he's going to be drafted late and outperform his draft projection. As far as upperclassmen go, I'd rather have Carter than Knecht for sure but they're completely different types of players. I basically put Carter, Sheppard, Castle, and McCain in the same category as combo guards with varying levels of defensive versatility and shooting. With regards to fit on the Spurs, I probably still put Sheppard first due to his jumper and defensive playmaking. However, I suspect that even though Carter's going to be the last one of the 4 drafted, he won't be the worst pro of the 4. Doesn't make sense to draft him with the Spurs natural pick, but if a trade-down opportunity is there I'd look very hard into drafting him as a 22 year old ready-made defender who doesn't need nearly as much developmental resources as a teenager but still with significant upside potential.

[BackHome]

Excellent write up - I like the kid a lot as you can see his game against UConn where he had 24pts to go with 15 rebounds is pretty crazy only to be followed up with 27pts and 8 rebounds a week latter for his last game against Marquette in March madness

[Gandalf]

Why don’t people here want Topic? I’m no expert and have only watched a few videos; he may not be Doncic, but he looks pretty good from what I’ve seen, and his three point shot might improve (he’s good at the charity stripe and from two-point range).

[KobesAchilles]

Why don’t people here want Topic? I’m no expert and have only watched a few videos; he may not be Doncic, but he looks pretty good from what I’ve seen, and his three point shot might improve (he’s good at the charity stripe and from two-point range).
Bc we have no shooting on our team and drafting a PG who can’t shoot is extremely idiotic. Same thought process of choosing Rubio over Curry. Guards who can’t shoot are shit.

[Gandalf]

Bc we have no shooting on our team and drafting a PG who can’t shoot is extremely idiotic. Same thought process of choosing Rubio over Curry. Guards who can’t shoot are shit.

Makes sense, assuming that’s accurate - tankathon seems to think he’s a great two-point shooter though. I think I read he’s close to 88-90% on free throws also. Didn’t Doncic struggle with threes when he first came over? https://www.tankathon.com/players/nikola-topic

[alfahdlan]

Methinks, PATFO will choose combo guard this draft for the first pick since Wemby can pretty much do 3 and 4 when needed. 1 and 2 combo will give Devin needed rest and Wemby the ball where he is most effective. Next pick will cater to SF, I supposed. At the moment we are competing against hornets for the top guard prospect. Sheppard will be ideal with Lamelo. If Hornets gets top 3, one guard will be out in the conversation.

[TD 21]

Draft Projection
I think he's going to be drafted late and outperform his draft projection. As far as upperclassmen go, I'd rather have Carter than Knecht for sure but they're completely different types of players. I basically put Carter, Sheppard, Castle, and McCain in the same category as combo guards with varying levels of defensive versatility and shooting. With regards to fit on the Spurs, I probably still put Sheppard first due to his jumper and defensive playmaking. However, I suspect that even though Carter's going to be the last one of the 4 drafted, he won't be the worst pro of the 4. Doesn't make sense to draft him with the Spurs natural pick, but if a trade-down opportunity is there I'd look very hard into drafting him as a 22 year old ready-made defender who doesn't need nearly as much developmental resources as a teenager but still with significant upside potential.

The thing with all of them is they're better off on a team where the primary initiator is a big guard or wing.

Not to get too far off topic, but without an obvious order or tier near the top and given the unique situation here, the pick might be intertwined with whatever they do or plan to at lead guard.

If it's one of the oft discussed names, in Murray's case, Sheppard and McCain (trade down) would make sense. In Young's, Mitchell's or Garland's case, Castle or Carter (trade down) would.

[Bruno]

Something strange about Topic is how much better his former team has been without him.

Adriatic regular season is over:
- First half of the season with Topic: 6W - 7L
- Second half of the season without Topic: 10W - 3L

I'm not sure why are the reasons behind that but it's noteworthy.

[JPB]

Something strange about Topic is how much better his former team has been without him.

Adriatic regular season is over:
- First half of the season with Topic: 6W - 7L
- Second half of the season without Topic: 10W - 3L

I'm not sure why are the reasons behind that but it's noteworthy.

As you know, that team is owned by his agent and he's using it to showcase his best prospects. Featuring his potential cash cows matters more than winning to him, I suppose they got better team chemistry and balance (and defense and shooting) when they started to play team ball insread of having a PG focused on showcasing himself, driving after drive.

But you're right, that, plus his two bad euroleague performances, plus that injury stuff is something to consider. For comparison, Risacher's team isn't build around and just to showcase him, he's playing team/winning ball there, not stat padding, and pretty succesfully since they're in the Eurocup finals and 4th in the (more competitive) french league (20-8).

I (brilliantly and majestically) predicted Topic would drop in the mock drafts, and he already did a little, going from potential #1 and surefire top 3, to top 5 now and maybe top 10 at the end.

[exstatic]

Bold Prediction: Spurs will draft Ryan Dunn.

And why not? Checks most boxes, except 3 point shot, but the same can be said for every other forward in the draft, right? Everything about this guy screams foundational rotational guy, and *if* he can develop a shot ... to the moon.

Thinking about, my opinion on Dunn hasn't really changed much, but everyone else seems to be falling in my estimation.

My opinion of Dunn hadn’t changed, but it’s still mid first round,

[Pauleta14]

Something strange about Topic is how much better his former team has been without him.

Adriatic regular season is over:
- First half of the season with Topic: 6W - 7L
- Second half of the season without Topic: 10W - 3L

I'm not sure why are the reasons behind that but it's noteworthy.

It could just be that a team gets better as the season goes but interesting...

Is his owner/agent pushing for a new gem at Mega?

[Splits]

Hope they let this kid in. Much more intrigued by him than these other prospects.

6’8 PG with a lot of upside. Can play on and off-ball, but excels with the ball in his hands. Smooth player who can get to the basket and finish or create for others. Has good length and upside defensively. Would be the youngest player in the draft at 18 years & 3 months old on draft night. Sure-fire lottery pick if they allow him to enter this draft, and very likely a top-10 pick. Think the Spurs would be very interested in him tbh.

1777371743759347723

ON_5y0uAkQM?si=4_cJUv-iMdfOzUNB

Shit I want him just for his name. And with Wemby on the team instead of pronouncing Pate like "hate" it would be "Pâté" as in the French dish where they make raw ground beef like tuna fish

[duncan2150]

Something strange about Topic is how much better his former team has been without him.

Adriatic regular season is over:
- First half of the season with Topic: 6W - 7L
- Second half of the season without Topic: 10W - 3L

I'm not sure why are the reasons behind that but it's noteworthy.

They loose four games by 5, 2, 2 and 1 point in that span with topic, that could have been the opposite also.

Imo it's about team chemistry and progressing during the year.

[Bruno]

As you know, that team is owned by his agent and he's using it to showcase his best prospects. Featuring his potential cash cows matters more than winning to him, I suppose they got better team chemistry and balance (and defense and shooting) when they started to play team ball insread of having a PG focused on showcasing himself, driving after drive.


I really wanted to see Topic playing with Red Star because of the sketchiness of that Mega team.

I still have in mind what happened with Timothé Luwawu-Cabarrot. He was nothing special in France before his agent showcased him for a year in the Mega team and it ended with him being drafted in the first round.

[Bruno]

Is his owner/agent pushing for a new gem at Mega?

The new young player that is shining with them is Nikola Djurisic, a SG/SF born in 2004.

[mo7888]

Now that we've finished the NCAA season and wait on combine results/interviews/ workouts etc, this is my Board at the present time. I've included my personal top 10 Spurs Board, which I don't usually do.

I think there are a few guys that I have top 10 that will be lower on draft day and I'm starting to see some value later in the draft (13-20) that could warrant trading back (or up) in certain scenarios. Guys like Tristan Da Silva, Johnny Furphy, Devin Carter, Kevin McCullar and Kyshawn George, provide various things that would fit or have upside if we are willing to move on from a few guys on the back end of our roster.

2024 NBA Draft Board
Tier 1:
1. Zaccharie Risacher
2. Alex Sarr
3. Nikola Topic
4. Matas Buzelis
Tier 2:
5. Reed Shephard
6. Cody Williams
7. Dalton Knecht
8. Isaiah Collier
Tier 3:
9. Robert Dillingham
10. Tidjane Salaun
11. Donovan Clingan
12. Stephen Castle
13. JaKobe Walter
14. Kyle Filipowski
15. Ron Holland
16. Johnny Furphy
Tier 4:
17. Ryan Dunn
18. Tyler Smith
19. Ke'lel Ware
20. Yves Missi
21. Zach Edey
22. Bobi Klintman
23. Kyshawn George
24. Tyrese Proctor
Tier 5:
25. Pacome Dadiet
26. Trevon Brazile
27. Kevin McCullar
28. Juan Nunez
29. Tyler Kolek
30. Tristan Da Silva

My Spurs Board Top 10

1. Matas Buzelis
2. Nikola Topic
3. Zaccharie Risacher
4. Alexander Sarr
5. Cody Williams
6. Reed Shephard
7. Dalton Knecht
8. Isaiah Collier
9. Tidjane Salaun
10. Robert Dillingham

[Pauleta14]

The new young player that is shining with them is Nikola Djurisic, a SG/SF born in 2004.

Thx

Just watched a few vids of him and even if I never know what to make of the opposition, he looks really good! Smooth shot and great defense and size

Why is there no buzz about him?

[exstatic]

The new young player that is shining with them is Nikola Djurisic, a SG/SF born in 2004.

The Djurisic Park of Nikola Djurisic.

[duncan2150]

I really wanted to see Topic playing with Red Star because of the sketchiness of that Mega team.

I still have in mind what happened with Timothé Luwawu-Cabarrot. He was nothing special in France before his agent showcased him for a year in the Mega team and it ended with him being drafted in the first round.

I really think what topic does at his age and position is very different than a lot of mega prospects and offcourse than Timothé Luwawu. I never tought TLC was a nba player during his time in France and mega.

[TimmehC]

Why is there no buzz about him?

Seems like he hasn't declared for the draft. He was projected in the 2nd round last year, but then withdrew. If he doesn't voluntarily enter this year or next year, he will automatically be eligible in 2026.

[JPB]

[QUOTE=mo7888;
My Spurs Board Top 10

1. Matas Buzelis
2. Nikola Topic
3. Zaccharie Risacher
4. Alexander Sarr
5. Cody Williams
6. Reed Shephard
7. Dalton Knecht
8. Isaiah Collier
9. Tidjane Salaun
10. Robert Dillingham[/QUOTE]

we're gonna disagree here then.

Buzelis is overrated in my books. He's posting the same numbers than Sidy this year in the G leagie at about the same age and is shooting 27% on 3 for the season. Not to mention his social media bravado. He can dunk on G League defenses, OK... but he's not gonna get those lines in the NBA. High risk, pretty low reward pick.

Topic is a PG who can't shoot either, nor defend, whose hype relies on youth competition success and driving over stiffs in the Adriatic League... He was transparent in the Euroleague time he played in, and as mentioned earlier, his former Adraitic team has much better success without him.. Factor in, similar players like Teodosic or Micic's recent fail in the NBA and there's a huge bust risk.

[mo7888]

we're gonna disagree here then.

Buzelis is overrated in my books. He's posting the same numbers than Sidy this year in the G leagie at about the same age and is shooting 27% on 3 for the season. Not to mention his social media bravado. He can dunk on G League defenses, OK... but he's not gonna get those lines in the NBA. High risk, pretty low reward pick.

Topic is a PG who can't shoot either, nor defend, whose hype relies on youth competition success and driving over stiffs in the Adriatic League... He was transparent in the Euroleague time he played in, and as mentioned earlier, his former Adraitic team has much better success without him.. Factor in, similar players like Teodosic or Micic's recent fail in the NBA and there's a huge bust risk.

We'll just have to disagree then. There are certainly flaws in their games, but that extends to everyone in the top 10. I project Buzelis and Topic to be good (not great) outside shooters (or at least that they have a better chance to achieve that as opposed to Shephard/Knecht becoming a good on ball defender for example.)

[Mr. Body]

Do people realize the player you see at 19 isn't the same player you can see develop at 23?

[duncan2150]

we're gonna disagree here then.

Buzelis is overrated in my books. He's posting the same numbers than Sidy this year in the G leagie at about the same age and is shooting 27% on 3 for the season. Not to mention his social media bravado. He can dunk on G League defenses, OK... but he's not gonna get those lines in the NBA. High risk, pretty low reward pick.

Topic is a PG who can't shoot either, nor defend, whose hype relies on youth competition success and driving over stiffs in the Adriatic League... He was transparent in the Euroleague time he played in, and as mentioned earlier, his former Adraitic team has much better success without him.. Factor in, similar players like Teodosic or Micic's recent fail in the NBA and there's a huge bust risk.

He played in like one or two euroleague games ?

Sometimes we just want to take all the bad to talk about a prospect, saying topic can't shoot playing one pro year with a team without a lot of spacing and good players is not a sure thing. The FT% are often a good variable and topic is really good.

About his team as i mentionned earlier they loose the majority of their games by a few points, imo there's nothing to do with that.

Topic still my top target, i understand people who have concerns but like sengun ( who was my target back in the day) i think that what he did in the adriatic league at his age, with his work ethic, his IQ he'll pan out as a good nba player.

[$pursDynasty]

I don't really follow the Euros so only can go by how they are described in here, Topic sounds too much like past Spur experimental euro guards who have disappointed. I am getting Nando DeColo vibes not in his game but how he is described. It worked with MVParker but never did after him. There isn't an obvious great fit, there isn't an obvious consensus #1 overall in this draft either. That being said I would prefer Sarr, not a team fit sure but for me he seems to have the most upside and if he could be gotten to concentrate on molding his game in a complimentary way to Wemby's he could be a very good foundational peace for a young team. Ideally I would like the Spurs to draft say #2 and get Sarr and miraculously if the Raps pick falls to #7 go Dilly there to take a swing at the PG position but that is just me. Sarr can take on the opposing teams C allowing Wemby to play off ball defender. Sarr can dedicate himself to getting rebounds and defense the dirty work glue guy with upside. That for me seems like the best case scenario for this draft. So call me Team Sarr because his description doesn't set off alarm bells like some of the other Euro's description do.

[Vienna]

The new young player that is shining with them is Nikola Djurisic, a SG/SF born in 2004.

he participated in the draft combine 2023. good hight (6'7'' w/o shoes)

[Bruno]

I really think what topic does at his age and position is very different than a lot of mega prospects and offcourse than Timothé Luwawu. I never tought TLC was a nba player during his time in France and mega.

I'm more trashing the whole Mega structure than Topic itself.

I find that Topic is a legit intriguing prospect. He isn't just a product of an agent. I have doubts on how his game will translate to the NBA and it really sucks that we weren't able to see him facing the more athletic Euroleague teams. He also deserves some credits for coming back to red star last December instead of staying "hidden" in Mega.

[duncan2150]

I'm more trashing the whole Mega structure than Topic itself.

I find that Topic is a legit intriguing prospect. He isn't just a product of an agent. I have doubts on how his game will translate to the NBA and it really sucks that we weren't able to see him facing the more athletic Euroleague teams. He also deserves some credits for coming back to red star last December instead of staying "hidden" in Mega.

yes i know you're not trashing him and understands the doubts

Totally agreed about the euroleague, that's the part that could have make him a more solid prospect.

[spurraider21]

Do people realize the player you see at 19 isn't the same player you can see develop at 23?
nope. this is the first any of us have heard of that concept

[Duncan2177]

I would draft Pate if he is allowed to enter this upcoming draft.

https://fansided.com/posts/dink-pate-could-shake-up-2024-nba-draft-with-unexpected-decision-01htzq77tswt

[Mr. Body]

nope. this is the first any of us have heard of that concept

It happens constantly on this board and some of the other worse message boards. "I just can't have a non-shooter." "He makes bad decisions." "He lacks skills."

No fucking shit. He's 19.

[Mr. Body]

nope. this is the first any of us have heard of that concept

It infects 'evaluations' of all young players, our own and on other teams.

"He sucks, he can't x. We need a player that does tuvwxyz and so player one needs traded right now."

Like, this ain't a video game. Right? We know that, right? The player you see right now is not the player that will exist in the future. Does everybody not understand this? I just want to check on brain damage here, because this franchise has seen many players develop. Do people just stab their brains with forks all the time or what? Because even a basic memory level is low.

[spurraider21]

It infects 'evaluations' of all young players, our own and on other teams.

"He sucks, he can't x. We need a player that does tuvwxyz and so player one needs traded right now."

Like, this ain't a video game. Right? We know that, right? The player you see right now is not the player that will exist in the future. Does everybody not understand this? I just want to check on brain damage here, because this franchise has seen many players develop. Do people just stab their brains with forks all the time or what? Because even a basic memory level is low.
yeah but it has to be based on a reasonable projection. you cant just assume that the player will magically get better at everything and fix all their flaws.

[JPB]

He played in like one or two euroleague games ?

Sometimes we just want to take all the bad to talk about a prospect, saying topic can't shoot playing one pro year with a team without a lot of spacing and good players is not a sure thing. The FT% are often a good variable and topic is really good.

About his team as i mentionned earlier they loose the majority of their games by a few points, imo there's nothing to do with that.

Topic still my top target, i understand people who have concerns but like sengun ( who was my target back in the day) i think that what he did in the adriatic league at his age, with his work ethic, his IQ he'll pan out as a good nba player.

His team point differential is significantly better without Topic (and the games are shorter, with much less points than in the NBA, so every point matter more)

But more than modestly not believing in Topic, which I gave the reasons why, I'd be interested to know (besides the hype), why one objectively should, specially that high in the draft, good or not, and why spurs should...

I watch today's NBA and what you should emphasize on (size, atheticism, versatility, fundmentals, IQ, shooting) and wonder what should factually make Topic worth spurs pick, and make him that high in the draft?

- Size

As "documented", and it clearly shows on tape, Topic isn't THAT particularly big for a guard. his listed size (let's wait for the combine, both visually and technically) doesn't really shows on the court.

- Atheticiism:

If anything, he should be listed as your typical unathletic,white euro PG whio mostly plays under the rim (dont bring Luka who actually is athletic in his own way)

-IQ:

Hard to say, giving the competition he ever faced. Seems ok, but I'm not seeing Rubio level of genius here or striking passing game and angles. He doesn't appear as a playmaker who van break NBA defense, specially if he can't shoot. But truth is besides his two bad euroleague games, we've never seen him in strong competition.

-fundamentals:

Same, seems OK, even if handles actually look a bit suspect and I'm not seeing Kyrie or CP3 smoothness and natural feel for the game

Shooting:

Can't really shoot now. Sure FT%s are OK but that's not always an indicator. Shooting 2/21 on 3 in the U18 he played in could be one.

- His play in the Adriatic League:

Who even ever watched? As mentioned, he played on a team built to showcase him. And all we have is highlights of him driving like a grandpa for an easy lay up over a bunch of plots.

- His play in the euroleague:

2 awful games (very short sample size, but still, there's that, he didn't belong the minutes he played there, hence the uncertainty.

- His play in the U18 Euro:

He dominated and that's basically where his hype entirely comes from. But I could list a bunch of players who dominated in international youth competitions and never made anything on the NBA. that's one thing to dominate against euro teens, another against world best BB players.

So yeah, technically, and besides the hype, I'm interested to know what EXACTLY should make Topic our pick, and generally worth even a top 10 pick? YT Adriatic League highlights? Being a PG from eastern Europe whose name ends on "ic".

[scott]

I feel like as much as Cody Williams benefits off of being Jalen Williams brother, Topic benefits from having a last name that ends in "-ic" in a time when Jokic and Doncic are your top MVP candidates.

Don't really want either of them.

[Mugen]

nope. this is the first any of us have heard of that concept

:lol

[duncan2150]

His team point differential is significantly better without Topic (and the games are shorter, with much less points than in the NBA, so every point matter more)

But more than modestly not believing in Topic, which I gave the reasons why, I'd be interested to know (besides the hype), why one objectively should, specially that high in the draft, good or not, and why spurs should...

I watch today's NBA and what you should emphasize on (size, atheticism, versatility, fundmentals, IQ, shooting) and wonder what should factually make Topic worth spurs pick, and make him that high in the draft?

- Size

As "documented", and it clearly shows on tape, Topic isn't THAT particularly big for a guard. his listed size (let's wait for the combine, both visually and technically) doesn't really shows on the court.

- Atheticiism:

If anything, he should be listed as your typical unathletic,white euro PG whio mostly plays under the rim (dont bring Luka who actually is athletic in his own way)

-IQ:

Hard to say, giving the competition he ever faced. Seems ok, but I'm not seeing Rubio level of genius here or striking passing game and angles. He doesn't appear as a playmaker who van break NBA defense, specially if he can't shoot. But truth is besides his two bad euroleague games, we've never seen him in strong competition.

-fundamentals:

Same, seems OK, even if handles actually look a bit suspect and I'm not seeing Kyrie or CP3 smoothness and natural feel for the game

Shooting:

Can't really shoot now. Sure FT%s are OK but that's not always an indicator. Shooting 2/21 on 3 in the U18 he played in could be one.

- His play in the Adriatic League:

Who even ever watched? As mentioned, he played on a team built to showcase him. And all we have is highlights of him driving like a grandpa for an easy lay up over a bunch of plots.

- His play in the euroleague:

2 awful games (very short sample size, but still, there's that, he didn't belong the minutes he played there, hence the uncertainty.

- His play in the U18 Euro:

He dominated and that basically where his hype entirely comes from. But I could list a bunch of players who dominated in international youth competitions and never made anything on the NBA. that's one thing to dominate against teens, another against world best BB players.

So yeah, technically, and besides the hype, I'm interested to know what EXACTLY should make Topic our pick, and generally worth even a top 10 pick? YT Adriatic League highlights? Being a PG from eastern Europe whose name ends on "ic".



two euroleague games is nothing, it's not even a sample size and that means something for you but in the adriatic he played well cause it was a bad competition and they showcased him ?and with the u18 where he played well, it's like a lot of others players ... You're not objective about this part.

Remember that he was the MVP in that competition and that he was already good in the Adidas Next Generation Tournament prior to that ( a good youth tournament where a lot of prospects shines)

What's interesting is that you say dominating teens is one thing but he did the same with grown men.


size : he has a really good size for a pg, 6'6 with a good wingspan of at least 6'9, really not a good argument there.

Athletism : yes he is not a vertical athlete but he's quick enough to be a correct athlete in the nba

shooting : a guy who shoots a 80-90 % at the line is a good indicator, i'm not saying he is a good shooter but saying he can't shoot or never will is strange... during the two adidas next gen he shoots 45 % (14/31) for example.

The hype came from his play with mega, and what exactly make topic our pick for me is simple :

we want a pg, he has good size, he showed really good things in a decent league while being really young. He has a good IQ, i trust his background...

More about his qualities, he's a good passer with a lot of variety in his passing games, good PNR player ( he can go letf or right with ease). Since he was young he's an offense initiator. He has good game control also, not easy at his age, he is a good finisher at the rim tough we'll see what he can do against a better competition but that's the same for all the prospects.

He also has a quick first step and he can create his shot decently.

And to finish off course he has some flaws, the shoot is not a sure thing as i say i think he's a capable one but he could not pan out in that area and the other flaw is the D, he's more suited to defend some 2 or 3 than some speedy PG's. He's not really quick laterally and he's a better off the ball defender that one on one.

[TrainOfThought5]

Now that we've finished the NCAA season and wait on combine results/interviews/ workouts etc, this is my Board at the present time. I've included my personal top 10 Spurs Board, which I don't usually do.

I think there are a few guys that I have top 10 that will be lower on draft day and I'm starting to see some value later in the draft (13-20) that could warrant trading back (or up) in certain scenarios. Guys like Tristan Da Silva, Johnny Furphy, Devin Carter, Kevin McCullar and Kyshawn George, provide various things that would fit or have upside if we are willing to move on from a few guys on the back end of our roster.

2024 NBA Draft Board
Tier 1:
1. Zaccharie Risacher
2. Alex Sarr
3. Nikola Topic
4. Matas Buzelis
Tier 2:
5. Reed Shephard
6. Cody Williams
7. Dalton Knecht
8. Isaiah Collier
Tier 3:
9. Robert Dillingham
10. Tidjane Salaun
11. Donovan Clingan
12. Stephen Castle
13. JaKobe Walter
14. Kyle Filipowski
15. Ron Holland
16. Johnny Furphy
Tier 4:
17. Ryan Dunn
18. Tyler Smith
19. Ke'lel Ware
20. Yves Missi
21. Zach Edey
22. Bobi Klintman
23. Kyshawn George
24. Tyrese Proctor
Tier 5:
25. Pacome Dadiet
26. Trevon Brazile
27. Kevin McCullar
28. Juan Nunez
29. Tyler Kolek
30. Tristan Da Silva

My Spurs Board Top 10

1. Matas Buzelis
2. Nikola Topic
3. Zaccharie Risacher
4. Alexander Sarr
5. Cody Williams
6. Reed Shephard
7. Dalton Knecht
8. Isaiah Collier
9. Tidjane Salaun
10. Robert Dillingham

Reed Sheppard over RoB Dillingham?!

[Bruno]

Regarding the Euro U18:
In odd years, there is also an U19 WC during the summer. It is customary to have the best 18 years old playing the U19 WC instead of the Euro U18. In 2023, Serbia really wanted to win the Euro U18, because it was at home, and they put all their best 18 years old in the U18 competition. Sarr, Risacher or Almansa played the 2023 U19 WC while they could have played the Euro U18.

Something I like about Topic is that he is the son of Milenko Topic, a high level Serbian player. While there are some counter example (like Bol Bol), most of the prospect coming from basketball families have a great work ethic and attitude.

[Kevin]

Thinking about the weakness of this year class and where Sarr would have went in the two previous drafts.

Last year he doesn't touch the top 3 and the Rockets would have passed on him at 4 because of Sengun, Eason and Smith. Good chance he goes to the Pistons and might fall as far as 7 to the Wizards.

The year before is much the same. Doesn't sniff the top 3 with Paulo, Chet and Smith and the Kings prolly take the much more sure thing in Murray even if Sarr has a higher ceiling. Once again the Pistons might be stuck with Sarr and if they don't take him he might fall to 8 for the Blazers.

With such a weak class this year Sarr is a lock for top 3. In a normal draft class Sarr goes in the 5-7 range certainly not top 3 let alone first overall.

[scott]

Thinking about the weakness of this year class and where Sarr would have went in the two previous drafts.

Last year he doesn't touch the top 3 and the Rockets would have passed on him at 4 because of Sengun, Eason and Smith. Good chance he goes to the Pistons and might fall as far as 7 to the Wizards.

The year before is much the same. Doesn't sniff the top 3 with Paulo, Chet and Smith and the Kings prolly take the much more sure thing in Murray even if Sarr has a higher ceiling. Once again the Pistons might be stuck with Sarr and if they don't take him he might fall to 8 for the Blazers.

With such a weak class this year Sarr is a lock for top 3. In a normal draft class Sarr goes in the 5-7 range certainly not top 3 let alone first overall.

Does he even go ahead of Duren and Mark Williams in the 2022 draft? Questionable.

[Kevin]

Does he even go ahead of Duren and Mark Williams in the 2022 draft? Questionable.

If Ousmane Deing goes 11 no way does Sarr fall into the teens that year. Still think he goes somewhere between 5-7 in 2022. I mean the Blazers rolled the dice on Shady Sharpe who also has a pretty low floor with character questions that Sarr doesn't have.

[mo7888]

Reed Sheppard over RoB Dillingham?!

100% I see Dilly as a 6th man energy guy off the bench and I don't think he'll be a full time starter on a good team. I see him as valuable though. Reed I believe has a 'chance' to be a lead PG in certain systems with a floor pf being a role player off the bench. There's just a little more upside there, although the difference isn't much..

[BatManu20]

Of course Dilly goes with Klutch smh :lol

1777786785667436814

[ambchang]

Granted, this is just based on a few youtube highlights, but I am very wary of Topic.
1) Players dominating in leagues that have more players than fans in the stands are always red flags;
2) His main strength seems to be driving to the hoop and finishing. While he does look really good finishing with both hands in the clips, I have serious doubts he would have the same type of room in the NBA;
2a) Similarly, I am not sure if he can drive past NBA defences with that speed. His defenders look like they were wearing cement shoes;
3) For all the talks about his vision, he sure misses a lot of simple obvious passes and instead choose to make the layups in traffic. Sure he makes them or it wouldn't have made the highlights, but I don't really see too many incredible passes;
4) As difficult it is for the NBA to defend nowadays, he will likely be hunted on every possession through pick and rolls. Our defence is hard enough;
5) He can't really shoot (well documented). The form looks fine, so I think he will get better in that front;
6) He looks like Justin Bieber and the Joker (comic book one) had a baby.

[heyheymymy]

Damn, Kanye Calipari and Klutch

Dilly is not Spurs material

[JPB]

Giving the nature of this draft, my way if thinking as a GM would be reducing the risks as much as I can and "choosing by elimination" by passing on players with big question marks and focusing on players who apparetnly present the profile and charaterisitcs that have the biggest chances to adapt to the NBA. That's for example why Miller was (rightfully so) picked over Scoot last year, as a long, versatile wing every NBA team is looking for today vs. an undersized PG who can't shoot.

And that's the reason I beliieve Risacher (versatile, long wing himself) and Sarr (mobile, rim protector) are mocked top 2 in many drafts and should go 1 and 2. Not necessarily because they're perceived as game changers or future stars but because their profile present the biggest chances to make them valuable, contributors, contrary to other prospects with no real certititudes.

Not bullying Topic (...) but that's the problem I have with hmi for example... I don't see any glaring element in his profile or morphology that makes me confident enough his game would adapt as a solid contributor in the NBA. Maybe he will, but yet again, it's about reducing risks, and he would ABSOLUTELY have to become a good shooter or he'll be useless in the NBA, specially condidering his bad defense...

Same with Dillingham, an undersized PG who can't shoot. Looks like a poor man's Scoot to me... Nothing surefire with them too, but I feel more confident a Risacher or a Sarr could contribute in different ways in the NBA. Put differently, I see a niche for these guys in the big league, with at elast or two things (hopefully more) they could be solid for, while other guys may just look like potentially good BB players OVERALL but nothing you could really put emphasis on to confidently make your choice...

It's kinda guarantees and rationality vs. gambling and hope. Time will tell.

[Atl Spur]

Damn, Kanye Calipari and Klutch

Dilly is not Spurs material

Why is Klutch so polarizing on this board? I guess because the owner currently plays basketball…. CAA along with other agencies never get any flack whatsoever! Oh well, get your bread Dilly:)

[scott]

If Ousmane Deing goes 11 no way does Sarr fall into the teens that year. Still think he goes somewhere between 5-7 in 2022. I mean the Blazers rolled the dice on Shady Sharpe who also has a pretty low floor with character questions that Sarr doesn't have.

Sarr's NBL stats are about as unimpressive as Dieng's were. Maybe that should tell us something.

[heyheymymy]

There goes my dream of drafting Cody Williams and Rob Dillingham to begin the Willy Dilly era in San Antonio.

Cody could wear #11 and get a nike brand on Wi11iams.

[Dejounte]

Giving the nature of this draft, my way if thinking as a GM would be reducing the risks as much as I can and "choosing by elimination" by passing on players with big question marks and focusing on players who apparetnly present the profile and charaterisitcs that have the biggest chances to adapt to the NBA. That's for example why Miller was (rightfully so) picked over Scoot last year, as a long, versatile wing every NBA team is looking for today vs. an undersized PG who can't shoot.

And that's the reason I beliieve Risacher (versatile, long wing himself) and Sarr (mobile, rim protector) are mocked top 2 in many drafts and should go 1 and 2. Not necessarily because they're perceived as game changers or future stars but because their profile present the biggest chances to make them valuable, contributors, contrary to other prospects with no real certititudes.

Not bullying Topic (...) but that's the problem I have with hmi for example... I don't see any glaring element in his profile or morphology that makes me confident enough his game would adapt as a solid contributor in the NBA. Maybe he will, but yet again, it's about reducing risks, and he would ABSOLUTELY have to become a good shooter or he'll be useless in the NBA, specially condidering his bad defense...

Same with Dillingham, an undersized PG who can't shoot. Looks like a poor man's Scoot to me... Nothing surefire with them too, but I feel more confident a Risacher or a Sarr could contribute in different ways in the NBA. Put differently, I see a niche for these guys in the big league, with at elast or two things (hopefully more) they could be solid for, while other guys may just look like potentially good BB players OVERALL but nothing you could really put emphasis on to confidently make your choice...

It's kinda guarantees and rationality vs. gambling and hope. Time will tell.

There’s nothing versatile about Risacher. He can’t dribble. He’s too weak to defend up and too slow to defend down. Hell, it’s looking like he can’t even shoot. 25% shooter on 59 threes for the last 16 games. That’s pathetic. He’s long whoopty doo. There’s your gambling and hoping right there.

[mo7888]

Giving the nature of this draft, my way if thinking as a GM would be reducing the risks as much as I can and "choosing by elimination" by passing on players with big question marks and focusing on players who apparetnly present the profile and charaterisitcs that have the biggest chances to adapt to the NBA. That's for example why Miller was (rightfully so) picked over Scoot last year, as a long, versatile wing every NBA team is looking for today vs. an undersized PG who can't shoot.

And that's the reason I beliieve Risacher (versatile, long wing himself) and Sarr (mobile, rim protector) are mocked top 2 in many drafts and should go 1 and 2. Not necessarily because they're perceived as game changers or future stars but because their profile present the biggest chances to make them valuable, contributors, contrary to other prospects with no real certititudes.

Not bullying Topic (...) but that's the problem I have with hmi for example... I don't see any glaring element in his profile or morphology that makes me confident enough his game would adapt as a solid contributor in the NBA. Maybe he will, but yet again, it's about reducing risks, and he would ABSOLUTELY have to become a good shooter or he'll be useless in the NBA, specially condidering his bad defense...

Same with Dillingham, an undersized PG who can't shoot. Looks like a poor man's Scoot to me... Nothing surefire with them too, but I feel more confident a Risacher or a Sarr could contribute in different ways in the NBA. Put differently, I see a niche for these guys in the big league, with at elast or two things (hopefully more) they could be solid for, while other guys may just look like potentially good BB players OVERALL but nothing you could really put emphasis on to confidently make your choice...

It's kinda guarantees and rationality vs. gambling and hope. Time will tell.

That's an argument for high floor/ low ceiling guys. Knecht is probably the only one in the top 10 (or closest). Everyone else is a risk, so I'd gamble on the bigger upside for positions we need.

[baseline bum]

100% I see Dilly as a 6th man energy guy off the bench and I don't think he'll be a full time starter on a good team. I see him as valuable though. Reed I believe has a 'chance' to be a lead PG in certain systems with a floor pf being a role player off the bench. There's just a little more upside there, although the difference isn't much..

You think he can be a lead PG in the Spurs system where Wemby is the only decent creator? Assuming Sheppard would have earned the starting spot over Tre at some point next season.

[BackHome]

The thing with Dilly is he will be hunted relentlessly on the defensive side so what he gives you on offense he will then quickly give backup on the defensive side.

[BatManu20]

1777813654684966993

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/EuroCup/status/1777793268874403932

[spurraider21]

Granted, this is just based on a few youtube highlights, but I am very wary of Topic.
1) Players dominating in leagues that have more players than fans in the stands are always red flags;
2) His main strength seems to be driving to the hoop and finishing. While he does look really good finishing with both hands in the clips, I have serious doubts he would have the same type of room in the NBA;
2a) Similarly, I am not sure if he can drive past NBA defences with that speed. His defenders look like they were wearing cement shoes;
3) For all the talks about his vision, he sure misses a lot of simple obvious passes and instead choose to make the layups in traffic. Sure he makes them or it wouldn't have made the highlights, but I don't really see too many incredible passes;
4) As difficult it is for the NBA to defend nowadays, he will likely be hunted on every possession through pick and rolls. Our defence is hard enough;
5) He can't really shoot (well documented). The form looks fine, so I think he will get better in that front;
6) He looks like Justin Bieber and the Joker (comic book one) had a baby.
yeah this is why euroleague was going to be such a critical part of his evaluation. just requires an insane amount of projection given the league he was playing in

he does seem to have some saving graces for most of his concerns. ie whether he can continue to finish at the rim in the nba, or whether he can become an adequate defender... he reportedly has a wingpsan of 6'10 or 6'11 or so. and while the outside shooting isnt there yet, the very high FT% as well as his touch near the rim are solid indicators that it can come around

[spurraider21]

1777807094877437998

[$pursDynasty]

Weakness of this class aside. What are the thoughts on how Sarr would fit on our roster? For me he has the highest upside of the potential picks because his negatives are not what we need to be strong positives out of him as a draft pick. In other words what he lacks is not what we would need out of him. I can't say the same for the rest, ie Dilly's inability to play defense would be a major negative to the Spurs just like Topic's inability to shoot would be as well.

[SpursBills]

If Dink Pate is allowed to enter the 2024 draft he's automatically the most interesting prospect in this draft to me. The combination of youth, height, and passing ability has historically yielded excellent draft prospects. The fact that he played most of his ignite season at 17 years old and had a 1.5:1 AST:TO while not being a complete zero offensively is incredibly impressive to me. Not that worried about his shooting percentages considering how physically underdeveloped he is, and his 70+% FT indicates that he most likely has some shooting potential. I'd honestly take him with the Spurs pick right now wherever it lands if given the opportunity. If the raptors pick conveys, probably take one of the four combo guards (Sheppard, Carter, Castle, McCain) to round out my 3 guard lineup.

[exstatic]

If Dink Pate is allowed to enter the 2024 draft he's automatically the most interesting prospect in this draft to me. The combination of youth, height, and passing ability has historically yielded excellent draft prospects. The fact that he played most of his ignite season at 17 years old and had a 1.5:1 AST:TO while not being a complete zero offensively is incredibly impressive to me. Not that worried about his shooting percentages considering how physically underdeveloped he is, and his 70+% FT indicates that he most likely has some shooting potential. I'd honestly take him with the Spurs pick right now wherever it lands if given the opportunity. If the raptors pick conveys, probably take one of the four combo guards (Sheppard, Carter, Castle, McCain) to round out my 3 guard lineup.

70% FTs isn’t really a strong shooting signal.

[exstatic]

Granted, this is just based on a few youtube highlights, but I am very wary of Topic.
1) Players dominating in leagues that have more players than fans in the stands are always red flags;
2) His main strength seems to be driving to the hoop and finishing. While he does look really good finishing with both hands in the clips, I have serious doubts he would have the same type of room in the NBA;
2a) Similarly, I am not sure if he can drive past NBA defences with that speed. His defenders look like they were wearing cement shoes;
3) For all the talks about his vision, he sure misses a lot of simple obvious passes and instead choose to make the layups in traffic. Sure he makes them or it wouldn't have made the highlights, but I don't really see too many incredible passes;
4) As difficult it is for the NBA to defend nowadays, he will likely be hunted on every possession through pick and rolls. Our defence is hard enough;
5) He can't really shoot (well documented). The form looks fine, so I think he will get better in that front;
6) He looks like Justin Bieber and the Joker (comic book one) had a baby.

You have that exactly backwards. There is MORE spacing in the NBA because of the proliferation of 3 point FGAs.

[mo7888]

You think he can be a lead PG in the Spurs system where Wemby is the only decent creator? Assuming Sheppard would have earned the starting spot over Tre at some point next season.

Not as presently constructed, I don't. I think either we get a 3 who is a creator or Sochan elevates his game in that area beyond what he's shown if Reed is going to be an effective lead guard.

[CorrectCrusader]

Idk if we're gonna be able to draft Topic with us continuing to win games

[onechance87]

Idk if we're gonna be able to draft Topic with us continuing to win games

any pg in dilly,topic,castle would be ok.Would be a upgrade over tre anyway you see it.

[Ariel]

Giving the nature of this draft, my way if thinking as a GM would be reducing the risks as much as I can and "choosing by elimination" by passing on players with big question marks and focusing on players who apparetnly present the profile and charaterisitcs that have the biggest chances to adapt to the NBA. That's for example why Miller was (rightfully so) picked over Scoot last year, as a long, versatile wing every NBA team is looking for today vs. an undersized PG who can't shoot.

And that's the reason I beliieve Risacher (versatile, long wing himself) and Sarr (mobile, rim protector) are mocked top 2 in many drafts and should go 1 and 2. Not necessarily because they're perceived as game changers or future stars but because their profile present the biggest chances to make them valuable, contributors, contrary to other prospects with no real certititudes.

Not bullying Topic (...) but that's the problem I have with hmi for example... I don't see any glaring element in his profile or morphology that makes me confident enough his game would adapt as a solid contributor in the NBA. Maybe he will, but yet again, it's about reducing risks, and he would ABSOLUTELY have to become a good shooter or he'll be useless in the NBA, specially condidering his bad defense...

Same with Dillingham, an undersized PG who can't shoot. Looks like a poor man's Scoot to me... Nothing surefire with them too, but I feel more confident a Risacher or a Sarr could contribute in different ways in the NBA. Put differently, I see a niche for these guys in the big league, with at elast or two things (hopefully more) they could be solid for, while other guys may just look like potentially good BB players OVERALL but nothing you could really put emphasis on to confidently make your choice...

It's kinda guarantees and rationality vs. gambling and hope. Time will tell.
Wait, what??!!! :wow Dillingham can't shoot?! :lol he's an excellent high volume shooter, he's got a fast release and isn't afraid to take big shots, and his excellent ball handling skills and blazing speed allow him to get himself looks other equally good or better shooters can't (like Sheppard, for instance). He's much faster than Scoot and better at getting to the rim, honestly he's a much more dynamic offensive player and not similar at all, maybe you have him confused with someone else?

[baseline bum]

Jesus, Kevin O'Connor just released a new big board and Castle is #1 and Clingan #3, not bullshitting. And ouch they have Risacher dropping to #10.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

Has the Spurs taking Clingan at #6 in his mock (Toronto got the #1 pick in whatever lottery simulation he did) with Risacher, Dillingham, and Sheppard still on the board. :lol

[SpursBills]

Jesus, Kevin O'Connor just released a new big board and Castle is #1 and Clingan #3, not bullshitting. And ouch they have Risacher dropping to #10.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

Has the Spurs taking Clingan at #6 in his mock (Toronto got the #1 pick in whatever lottery simulation he did) with Risacher, Dillingham, and Sheppard still on the board. :lol

At this point I think that after the Killian Hayes fiasco a couple years ago KOC is just going to come up with so many mocks that he can just point to whichever one happens to hit so he doesn't get clowned.

[Ariel]

If Dink Pate is allowed to enter the 2024 draft he's automatically the most interesting prospect in this draft to me. The combination of youth, height, and passing ability has historically yielded excellent draft prospects. The fact that he played most of his ignite season at 17 years old and had a 1.5:1 AST:TO while not being a complete zero offensively is incredibly impressive to me. Not that worried about his shooting percentages considering how physically underdeveloped he is, and his 70+% FT indicates that he most likely has some shooting potential. I'd honestly take him with the Spurs pick right now wherever it lands if given the opportunity. If the raptors pick conveys, probably take one of the four combo guards (Sheppard, Carter, Castle, McCain) to round out my 3 guard lineup.
Have not watched him, but the basis for his request to be included in this year's draft seems extremely weak: he's claiming he signed a 2 year deal to play for Ignite and the program has been discontinued, but likely the league offers him a roster spot on some other G League team and that's the end of it, if they break the rules allowing him to enter the draft while not turning 19 until march 2025, the league is opening the floodgates for other prospects asking the same and I don't think they want that.

[SpursBills]

Have not watched him, but the basis for his request to be included in this year's draft seems extremely weak: he's claiming he signed a 2 year deal to play for Ignite and the program has been discontinued, but likely the league offers him a roster spot on some other G League team and that's the end of it, if they break the rules allowing him to enter the draft while not turning 19 until march 2025, the league is opening the floodgates for other prospects asking the same and I don't think they want that.

Good point, that makes more sense. Will be interesting to see how he looks next year, especially if the Spurs end up having 3 potential first round picks.

[alfahdlan]

Jesus, Kevin O'Connor just released a new big board and Castle is #1 and Clingan #3, not bullshitting. And ouch they have Risacher dropping to #10.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

Has the Spurs taking Clingan at #6 in his mock (Toronto got the #1 pick in whatever lottery simulation he did) with Risacher, Dillingham, and Sheppard still on the board. :lol

One prospect was described “ … hasa superstar upside if his jumper improves.” I wonder what will happen to sheppard if his jumper improves still. Steph Curry had 40.8 3P% as freshman.

[SpursBills]

One prospect was described “ … hasa superstar upside if his jumper improves.” I wonder what will happen to sheppard if his jumper improves still. Steph Curry had 40.8 3P% as freshman.

I like Sheppard more than most but this insinuation seems like a huge stretch. Steph also put up literally double the number of 3s as a freshman compared to Sheppard. Sheppard's percentages are fantastic, but projecting a 3 pointer in the pros is almost as much about volume as percentage (see: Anthony Edwards) and he is drawing virtually dead to becoming a Steph-level shooter.

Honestly, I am not convinced that Sheppard is a better shooter in the pros than even Jared McCain, whose combination of 3%, 3 pt volume, and FT% are eerily similar to sophomore year Dame but still aren't in the same planet as Steph. I like Reed as a prospect better than McCain due to other traits, like his high feel, defensive playmaking, and higher chance of becoming a PG, but using just Reed's shooting percentages to project his shot in the pros seems like a big stretch.

[Chinook]

Have not watched him, but the basis for his request to be included in this year's draft seems extremely weak: he's claiming he signed a 2 year deal to play for Ignite and the program has been discontinued, but likely the league offers him a roster spot on some other G League team and that's the end of it, if they break the rules allowing him to enter the draft while not turning 19 until march 2025, the league is opening the floodgates for other prospects asking the same and I don't think they want that.

I also think the Spurs should avoid drafting prospects who are that underdeveloped. There's a difference between drafting a player who has things they need to work on to be their best selves and committing to years of development for the guy to be physically ready to play. They absolutely have time for a young PG to grow and to bring a guy with talent off the bench, but even that still assumes the team brings in supporting vets.

[Mr. Body]

Have not watched him, but the basis for his request to be included in this year's draft seems extremely weak: he's claiming he signed a 2 year deal to play for Ignite and the program has been discontinued, but likely the league offers him a roster spot on some other G League team and that's the end of it, if they break the rules allowing him to enter the draft while not turning 19 until march 2025, the league is opening the floodgates for other prospects asking the same and I don't think they want that.

Feels like they can't break the draft rule but have to honor the contract commitment. Either find a way to have him play G-League if he wants or just pay him the contract and let him go where he wants overseas. The dissolution of Ignite has nothing to do with the draft.

[Mr. Body]

Jesus, Kevin O'Connor just released a new big board and Castle is #1 and Clingan #3, not bullshitting. And ouch they have Risacher dropping to #10.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

Has the Spurs taking Clingan at #6 in his mock (Toronto got the #1 pick in whatever lottery simulation he did) with Risacher, Dillingham, and Sheppard still on the board. :lol

O'Connor shot Sheppard to #1 after everyone was creaming themselves over the white guy having a single great game against Mississippi State. He seems super jumpy with the moves.

Risacher, however, had another horrible game where he went 0-5 from three with four turnovers. Moving him to the bottom of the lottery seems a mercy.

[alfahdlan]

I like Sheppard more than most but this insinuation seems like a huge stretch. Steph also put up literally double the number of 3s as a freshman compared to Sheppard. Sheppard's percentages are fantastic, but projecting a 3 pointer in the pros is almost as much about volume as percentage (see: Anthony Edwards) and he is drawing virtually dead to becoming a Steph-level shooter.

Honestly, I am not convinced that Sheppard is a better shooter in the pros than even Jared McCain, whose combination of 3%, 3 pt volume, and FT% are eerily similar to sophomore year Dame but still aren't in the same planet as Steph. I like Reed as a prospect better than McCain due to other traits, like his high feel, defensive playmaking, and higher chance of becoming a PG, but using just Reed's shooting percentages to project his shot in the pros seems like a big stretch.

My point is what we have right now are talents not finished product. All of them have potentials to improve. PATFO has now responsibility to choose among them who will grow together with the team and achieve greater heights.

[Vienna]

Do people realize the player you see at 19 isn't the same player you can see develop at 23?

true. but doesn't that also apply to Risacher? (at least since last Monday, when he turned 19)

[Vienna]

1777807094877437998

yes, his shot from outside didn't fall. he was 5-6 from inside though, while scoring some very nice buckets.
btw. he was named top performer of his team on the euroleague page.
this is the Euro Cup Finals, I guess we can talk about a reasonable high level of competition.
Risacher was the youngest player on the floor. (in fact, there was no other player younger than 21)

[Vienna]

Something I like about Topic is that he is the son of Milenko Topic, a high level Serbian player. While there are some counter example (like Bol Bol), most of the prospect coming from basketball families have a great work ethic and attitude.

I guess it would be a tie between Milenko Topic and Stephane Risacher. but none of them could compete with the legs of Vesna Citakovic. (I know you had your reason when you pointed at her son.....;-))

[JPB]

yes, his shot from outside didn't fall. he was 5-6 from inside though, while scoring some very nice buckets.
btw. he was named top performer of his team on the euroleague page.
this is the Euro Cup Finals, I guess we can talk about a reasonable high level of competition.
Risacher was the youngest player on the floor. (in fact, there was no other player younger than 21)

Yeah, but you can't beat the mighty Adriatic League, and Topic cruising his way between no names for the grandpa lay up... Was worth resting the rest of the season, specially after his two "brilliant" Euroleague outings

Not a conspirary theory freak, but you could almost say is 4 weeks turned 4 months injury was kinda fortunate. More Euroleague games like he had and his stock would have definitely plummeted... Just like Scoot's season was shut down last year before the end because he was starting playing bad and his flaws started to show. Maybe Risacher should have stopped playing after his great first start of the season...

That's another element I'd take into consideration, it's not supposed to be about "tricking" GMs, and I respect the courage and dedication of prospects who just want to play ball and compete, not hide. At least with College players and these prospects playing all season valuable pro competition, you have something to judge from. And a smart GM is able to judge potential through ups and downs.

[mo7888]

Jesus, Kevin O'Connor just released a new big board and Castle is #1 and Clingan #3, not bullshitting. And ouch they have Risacher dropping to #10.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

Has the Spurs taking Clingan at #6 in his mock (Toronto got the #1 pick in whatever lottery simulation he did) with Risacher, Dillingham, and Sheppard still on the board. :lol

Yea, it's nuts right now. I think it's just an indication that there's no consensus on a front runner or top 10 order yet. Hopefully individual workouts will give us some clarity.

[Mr. Body]

Outside bets:

Buzelis and Holland both climb back up, with Buzelis going #1

Spurs take Reed Sheppard

[JPB]

Jesus, Kevin O'Connor just released a new big board and Castle is #1 and Clingan #3, not bullshitting. And ouch they have Risacher dropping to #10.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

Has the Spurs taking Clingan at #6 in his mock (Toronto got the #1 pick in whatever lottery simulation he did) with Risacher, Dillingham, and Sheppard still on the board. :lol

Overreacting to the Tournament, as always. Now, ask GMs and they'll tell you the Tournament may confirm or infirm eventually their opinions but they mostly base it over year long scouting and the tournament doesn't factor in that much in their decision.

(Problems or not) Brandon Miller sucked in last year's Tournament.

Burt yeah that's crazy, I have seen some (respected) drafts with Topic from #1 to #15.

[BatManu20]

1778094288502477042

[Degoat]

Isaiah Collier is my sleeper target, if he impresses in interviews/workouts he’ll rise in this draft

[spurraider21]

Collier's shooting showed signs of life after he came back from his January injury. shot 37.5 from 3 in those last 11 games, and not on Cody Williams volume. with that said, his FT% was still sub 70%

those are some nice passes in the highlights but too often he looks like he has tunnel vision going toward the rim. and for a guy with his athletic profile, its concerning that he wasnt much of a defender

but for a guy who can handle, get to the rim, and has his size/frame... if they think he's coachable, could do worse in this draft

[Pauleta14]

Jesus, Kevin O'Connor just released a new big board and Castle is #1 and Clingan #3, not bullshitting. And ouch they have Risacher dropping to #10.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

Has the Spurs taking Clingan at #6 in his mock (Toronto got the #1 pick in whatever lottery simulation he did) with Risacher, Dillingham, and Sheppard still on the board. :lol

I like the guy buy he changes his mind all the time with his projections, he had Spurs taking Sheppard a cple weeks ago

He's as lost as everybody

[buttsR4rebounding]

I like the guy buy he changes his mind all the time with his projections, he had Spurs taking Sheppard a cple weeks ago

He's as lost as everybody

The biggest problem I have with Sheppard is his passing is so mechanical. I don't think I have seen him throw a one-handed pass off the dribble. To me, his passing just doesn't look smooth. I think he does fine on the obvious passes, but there is really no creativity involved in that part of his game.

[DPG21920]

The biggest problem I have with Sheppard is his passing is so mechanical. I don't think I have seen him throw a one-handed pass off the dribble. To me, his passing just doesn't look smooth. I think he does fine on the obvious passes, but there is really no creativity involved in that part of his game.

Sounds a lot like Derrick White (in a good way)

[Mr. Body]

The biggest problem I have with Sheppard is his passing is so mechanical. I don't think I have seen him throw a one-handed pass off the dribble. To me, his passing just doesn't look smooth. I think he does fine on the obvious passes, but there is really no creativity involved in that part of his game.

Agree. I don't see much of a primary facilitator with him, and I watched a lot of Kentucky. He's not Derrick White level, either. He did get 5.6 assists per 36, so can move the ball around, but to me it was as a secondary facilitator.

Now, the nice thing is that under Pop's system secondary facilitation is the name of the game. If there's going to be a primary facilitator it's going to be Wembanyama.

[exstatic]

Isaiah Collier is my sleeper target, if he impresses in interviews/workouts he’ll rise in this draft

Small guards who don’t pass or shoot well have a very narrow path to success.

[exstatic]

I like the guy buy he changes his mind all the time with his projections, he had Spurs taking Sheppard a cple weeks ago

He's as lost as everybody
He’s also doing random lottery draws. That would affect who is picked when.

[Chinook]

Collier's shooting showed signs of life after he came back from his January injury. shot 37.5 from 3 in those last 11 games, and not on Cody Williams volume. with that said, his FT% was still sub 70%

those are some nice passes in the highlights but too often he looks like he has tunnel vision going toward the rim. and for a guy with his athletic profile, its concerning that he wasnt much of a defender

but for a guy who can handle, get to the rim, and has his size/frame... if they think he's coachable, could do worse in this draft

Another interesting thing about Collier is that bulk and strength gives him defensive potential a lot of other guard prospects don't have. I see him as similar to Murry and Anderson in that he could be a much better NBA defender than college because he'll be in a smaller role and his versatility would be more valued. We'll have to see how he actually measures at the combine, but currently, he's thought to be of comparable size to Marcus Smart and Derrick White. There are many ways the team could go for PG obviously, but having a guy with bulk and athleticism opens up options for a few different team configuration in a way someone like Sheppard or Dillingham wouldn't while also not sacrificing offensive potential like Castle would.

[ginobilized]

On May 12th we get to see where the ping pong balls land.
This is the weirdest draft class in recent memory.

I'm wondering if the Spurs are content with winning some games because they are targeting a player outside of the common list.

As far as the 3 American guards, Sheppard, Dillingham and Castle, I could see each serving a needed role on the team. None of them stands out enough to make me choose one over another.

[spurraider21]

Another interesting thing about Collier is that bulk and strength gives him defensive potential a lot of other guard prospects don't have. I see him as similar to Murry and Anderson in that he could be a much better NBA defender than college because he'll be in a smaller role and his versatility would be more valued. We'll have to see how he actually measures at the combine, but currently, he's thought to be of comparable size to Marcus Smart and Derrick White. There are many ways the team could go for PG obviously, but having a guy with bulk and athleticism opens up options for a few different team configuration in a way someone like Sheppard or Dillingham wouldn't while also not sacrificing offensive potential like Castle would.
i mean yeah, Collier has always been enticing due to his size/frame/athleticism and its why he came into the season as one of the main guys vying for a top 2-3 draft spot. but his performance didnt live up, particularly defensively

i also saw a guy with tunnel vision on drives... but im much more confident that he can become a good point guard than castle. think with castle you just accept he's a SG/SF and his aspiration offensively is to become an iguodala type playmaker

[Mr. Body]

Another interesting thing about Collier is that bulk and strength gives him defensive potential a lot of other guard prospects don't have. I see him as similar to Murry and Anderson in that he could be a much better NBA defender than college because he'll be in a smaller role and his versatility would be more valued. We'll have to see how he actually measures at the combine, but currently, he's thought to be of comparable size to Marcus Smart and Derrick White. There are many ways the team could go for PG obviously, but having a guy with bulk and athleticism opens up options for a few different team configuration in a way someone like Sheppard or Dillingham wouldn't while also not sacrificing offensive potential like Castle would.

This is the trap of equating size and any athleticism to defensive potential. Nothing about Collier suggests interest or instinct to guard people. He's the classic loafer on that end, waiting to get the ball back, inattentive, lazy, no feel even when he tries.

The other issue with Collier that highlights don't show is that he doesn't really have great touch on his shots or his passes. His passing shows good, even potentially great vision, and sometimes he places those passes. Just as often he'll blow a basic lob in a way that makes you question humanity. And it happens a lot. Maybe he plays too fast. But it's the same with his shot, how they'll fly off the rim. There's little touch.

The ultimate thing is, though, nothing about him suggests a Spurs player. Not even play style. If the Spurs like a guard threatening the rim, they've historically liked a circulatory Tony Parker probing and shifting the defense, forcing reactions, or an opportunistic driver, like where Keldon (not a guard) or Tre will attack if the defense is out of place. They don't seem to want a player who just attacks the rim regardless of what's going on. It's inefficient, doesn't test the defense, doesn't bring any of the team into play. It's very predictable.

[Chinook]

This is the trap of equating size and any athleticism to defensive potential. Nothing about Collier suggests interest or instinct to guard people. He's the classic loafer on that end, waiting to get the ball back, inattentive, lazy, no feel even when he tries.

As someone who doesn't a watch college basketball, I can't speak to Collier's heart. That is something teams will have to determine through scouting and interviews. It's not a "trap" to see tools a player has. That's not the same thing as saying, "We need a defender, so let's go get Collier." When you make a business of drafting 19-year-olds, you have to be willing to project them changing, both physically and mentally. Collier, like Anderson and Murray, may find defense more his calling when he's just a guy on the NBA court and no longer a top recruit sharing a team with Lebron's son. If the main thing holding him back is that he didn't want to do so in college, well, that can change.


The other issue with Collier that highlights don't show is that he doesn't really have great touch on his shots or his passes. His passing shows good, even potentially great vision, and sometimes he places those passes. Just as often he'll blow a basic lob in a way that makes you question humanity. And it happens a lot. Maybe he plays too fast. But it's the same with his shot, how they'll fly off the rim. There's little touch.

And the coaches will have to look at that and determine how much of that can be fixed, how easily and how quickly. They don't need him to be his best self immediately, but they shouldn't fall into the trap of saying, "There's X percent chance that he pans out, but if he does, he will be great." They should be making plans, not gambling.


The ultimate thing is, though, nothing about him suggests a Spurs player. Not even play style. If the Spurs like a guard threatening the rim, they've historically liked a circulatory Tony Parker probing and shifting the defense, forcing reactions, or an opportunistic driver, like where Keldon (not a guard) or Tre will attack if the defense is out of place. They don't seem to want a player who just attacks the rim regardless of what's going on. It's inefficient, doesn't test the defense, doesn't bring any of the team into play. It's very predictable.

I don't think this matters at all. The Spurs have historically created systems to take advantage of their talent, and they can accommodate a guy who likes to bull through and quick-post if they thing the talent is there. Some of what he does may work in plays Pop drew up for Parker, just like with DeRozan. Some plays that weren't available to Parker might open up as they did for guys like Westbrook. More importantly, whatever role Collier or any PG has will change as Wemby and the other players develop. Parker wasn't Parker for years, even after he became a strong starting PG. It's okay that the PG will grow in dialectic with the roster at its star.

[Mr. Body]

I don't think this matters at all. The Spurs have historically created systems to take advantage of their talent, and they can accommodate a guy who likes to bull through and quick-post if they thing the talent is there. Some of what he does may work in plays Pop drew up for Parker, just like with DeRozan. Some plays that weren't available to Parker might open up as they did for guys like Westbrook. More importantly, whatever role Collier or any PG has will change as Wemby and the other players develop. Parker wasn't Parker for years, even after he became a strong starting PG. It's okay that the PG will grow in dialectic with the roster at its star.

Parker worked because he was constantly shifting the defense and probing, not going hammerlock toward the rim. He was under control, would pass through the paint. He'd take his moments if the defense wasn't wary or pop a midrange. All of this, of course, once he was established as the core of the offense.

Collier isn't a player you want to be taking a large portion of the offensive possessions. He does draw fouls, but only shoots about 67% from the stripe. He gets a ton of turnovers. Some of those are offensive fouls. Certainly some of that can be improved, but he's not the quick, probing guard that Parker was, he's a bowling ball with one destination.

That's not a player I want to completely change my offense to support. Those are possessions and areas of the floor I want to keep open for Wemanybama. With a high draft pick, I wouldn't put my faith in changing Collier. I'd rather look somewhere else.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

This draft is an ungodly mess. I've never seen such a jumbled board. Folks can't even agree on talent tiers.

I'm increasingly coming around to the opinion that they should ignore position, need, and fit altogether, and just draft BPA who has the strongest mental eval. They all are flawed in one way or another. Find the one who is going to work the hardest and be a good teammate and let the chips fall where they may.

[ginobilized]

Dink Pate is becoming an intriguing possibility. I hope he gets the waiver to enter the draft this year.
6'8" point guard, went pro at 17, from TX. Might be something to work with there if we want to develop him.

[JPB]

On May 12th we get to see where the ping pong balls land.
This is the weirdest draft class in recent memory.

I'm wondering if the Spurs are content with winning some games because they are targeting a player outside of the common list.

As far as the 3 American guards, Sheppard, Dillingham and Castle, I could see each serving a needed role on the team. None of them stands out enough to make me choose one over another.

Nor to consider they'll be the starters/main contributors of the future.

[Mr. Body]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmxOHU3TSqE

A lottery mock that doesn't regurgitate received wisdom, Derek Parker is one of the better one-guy YT analysts. Warning, I believe he's a Thunder fan, but unlike most Thunder fans isn't overly needy and emotional. Here, some of his picks might not be what everyone would do, but he gives good reasons for who he's picking for each team and why.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1778173705337622749

[Ariel]

The biggest problem I have with Sheppard is his passing is so mechanical. I don't think I have seen him throw a one-handed pass off the dribble. To me, his passing just doesn't look smooth. I think he does fine on the obvious passes, but there is really no creativity involved in that part of his game.
Sheppard's passing is more than fine, his reads are excellent and his delivery is always on point, some of his transition passes are Jokic like. The problem with him has to do with his inability to create in the halfcourt, and that has a lot to do with his lack of explosiveness and an elite handle, both of which Dillingham does possess.

[Ariel]

Parker worked because he was constantly shifting the defense and probing, not going hammerlock toward the rim. He was under control, would pass through the paint. He'd take his moments if the defense wasn't wary or pop a midrange. All of this, of course, once he was established as the core of the offense.

Collier isn't a player you want to be taking a large portion of the offensive possessions. He does draw fouls, but only shoots about 67% from the stripe. He gets a ton of turnovers. Some of those are offensive fouls. Certainly some of that can be improved, but he's not the quick, probing guard that Parker was, he's a bowling ball with one destination.

That's not a player I want to completely change my offense to support. Those are possessions and areas of the floor I want to keep open for Wemanybama. With a high draft pick, I wouldn't put my faith in changing Collier. I'd rather look somewhere else.
I tend to think alike in regards to Collier, one possible exception would be if the FO traded for a vet, or traded down. In both cases Portland makes for an interesting partner: they have vets that could be available (Simons, Brogdon), and 2 picks in the lottery (or close): their own and GSW's. Washington (Avdija, Kispert, Tyus Jones) and Detroit (Ivey) are also interesting potential trade partners. I wouldn't be mad if the Spurs used their high picks to get a young vet + a later pick, getting both the basis of a competitive team + still going for a swing in the late lottery / mid teens (Collier, Salaun, Kyshawn George, etc).

[Dejounte]

Gonna repeat what I think will happen:

the Spurs will go for a player who is able to showcase their talent early. Meaning, their talent will standout above the rest when on the floor with Spurs players who have been here for years. While many have the opinion that a lot of our current rotation players are trash, there is still a system to learn and sometimes players adapt to that system fast and sometimes slow. Talented players adapt fast.

But that statement can be misconstrued to mean that the players they should go for should have skills that fit well with others— like having the ability to shoot when paired with Wemby. While that’s nice, that’s not the type of talent that exactly stands out. There has to be something different about next year if they don’t plan to make any major trades. There also has to be a sense of progression. Having a guy like Zaccharie make open shots and nothing but open shots won’t increase our win total over the next few years. His development in shot creation would. However, that is increasingly unlikely for him to attain as highlighted in recent videos his unimpressive scoring outside of his 3 pt shooting. It looks like Sochan redux out there watching him get his points by simple cutting and finishing.

Another type of talent that won’t stand out on this team is Sarr. His game is so unpolished that he is likely to make boneheaded play after boneheaded play. That sets a bad precedent when you play a guy like that.

Yes, a lot of other guys have flaws and question marks. But quite a few of them have a path to be good contributors from day 1. I was iffy on Sheppard but his well rounded game backed by his IQ would make him an instant contributor. Dilly is also someone I think who would be a game changer.

[Dejounte]

To further add,

the Spurs players this year took time, as we all know, to recognize Wemby as the undisputed #1 guy on the team. It also took Spurs players four years to see that Vassell as the guy who should be number 2 behind Wemby. This is basketball. Players naturally rally around guys who are truly talented. That’s what we have to ask ourselves when we look at a guy like Zaccharie and actually think that this is a guy who would step in and show other folks he’s better than them. I think absolutely not. He might have a good game here and there where he’s shooting lights out, but the acknowledgement that he should eventually have the ball when it’s down to the wire… down the road in his career? Doubt it.

Shot creation is key in this league for stardom. Some players have it, some don’t. There’s some promising players in this draft that could take the ball and make something out of nothing. I hope the Spurs find that player. My opinion on who fits that profile? Dilly, Matas, Collier. My bet is that the Spurs draft one of these guys. If not, then I hope the Spurs see something I don’t (they usually do) in other players.

[Ariel]

2 games to go, tied with Charlotte for 3rd, and Toronto is in 6th place, 2 games apart from 7th (Brooklyn). Spurs face Denver and Detroit, Charlotte faces Boston and Cleveland, so they both likely lose the next game and it will come down to the last game. Detroit should have #1 secured by then, Pop should rest Wemby and play these same guys that lost to OKC today. If that;s the case, we likely end up tied for 3rd. which is fine,...not much difference.

[objective]

2nd rounder watch:

Jonathan Mogbo, San Francisco

28.9 mpg
14.2pts
10.1 rbs
3.6 assist
0.8 blocks
1.6 steals

6-8 big, different college all 4 years, great athlete, great passer (for a big)

Basically he's Faried or Harrell if they could really pass but still couldn't shoot. Arguably not expected to be a consistent defender at the NBA level without some development, but that's how second round picks are. Weak competition, 2 years JUCO + 2 years scrub conferences

[onechance87]

im ready to move on from branham and wesley.Ive seen enough to know they are not good.Time to draft other young guys
to develop,Cause alot of these young guys on this roster are gonna be a waste of time when they got no potential.

[BatManu20]

1778176548656312607

[BatManu20]

1778227616324980935

[DAF86]

1778176548656312607

I wonder what they refer to when talking about "eyeing the 2025 draft". I doubt it's having another bottom 3 record. That can't be benefitial for anyone within the organization.

The least the Spurs should do in the offseason is draft one or two guys that can become rotation players right away and add two more veterans as role players. Something along the lines of:

-Drafting Risacher and Dillingham/Sheppard
-Signing Grayson Allen and Royce O'neal.

SL: Dillingham/Sheppard - Vassell -Risacher -Sochan -Wemby
Bench: Tre - Allen - Keldon -O'neal - Collins

Best case scenario: you fight for a play-in spot 'till the very end, miss out, get lucky in the lottery and get a high draft pick in 2025. Then you can think about doing "all-in moves" in Wemby's third year.

[scott]

1778176548656312607

Provides plenty of time for the Sniff Crew to revise their previous statements and start getting new posts drafted up for how we are tanking in 2024-25 and PAFTO is genius for it.

The FO probably saw the post ASB performance and convinced themselves this team can be competitive next season if we just keep pounding the rock.

[exstatic]

1778227616324980935

Shouldn’t Pels wait until after the lottery to see if lightning might strike?

[duncan2150]

I wonder what they refer to when talking about "eyeing the 2025 draft". I doubt it's having another bottom 3 record. That can't be benefitial for anyone within the organization.

The least the Spurs should do in the offseason is draft one or two guys that can become rotation players right away and add two more veterans as role players. Something along the lines of:

-Drafting Risacher and Dillingham/Sheppard
-Signing Grayson Allen and Royce O'neal.

SL: Dillingham/Sheppard - Vassell -Risacher -Sochan -Wemby
Bench: Tre - Allen - Keldon -O'neal - Collins

Best case scenario: you fight for a play-in spot 'till the very end, miss out, get lucky in the lottery and get a high draft pick in 2025. Then you can think about doing "all-in moves" in Wemby's third year.

Imo it's just that they have a lot of picks and they wanto do something with that, trading them or having something with some lottery luck.

This draft could be huge for the spurs, i agree they're not planning on having the first pick or something like that

[spurraider21]

Shouldn’t Pels wait until after the lottery to see if lightning might strike?
They haven’t done anything official yet

[mo7888]

Shouldn’t Pels wait until after the lottery to see if lightning might strike?

They probably don't want the salary and project the LA pick next year to be top 10. Top 10 next year may be better than top 3 this year.

[Ariel]

I wonder what they refer to when talking about "eyeing the 2025 draft". I doubt it's having another bottom 3 record. That can't be benefitial for anyone within the organization.

The least the Spurs should do in the offseason is draft one or two guys that can become rotation players right away and add two more veterans as role players. Something along the lines of:

-Drafting Risacher and Dillingham/Sheppard
-Signing Grayson Allen and Royce O'neal.

SL: Dillingham/Sheppard - Vassell -Risacher -Sochan -Wemby
Bench: Tre - Allen - Keldon -O'neal - Collins

Best case scenario: you fight for a play-in spot 'till the very end, miss out, get lucky in the lottery and get a high draft pick in 2025. Then you can think about doing "all-in moves" in Wemby's third year.
Yeah, sounds weird. I could understand if they said the Spurs have their eyes on the "2025 free agency", as in they don't see any major target right now and would like to keep their powder dry, which wouldn't necessarily mean standing pat. But saying they're focused on the "2025 DRAFT" does suggest another tank, which could honestly get ugly... if the Spurs go that route and they don't come out of the '25 draft with another franchise caliber guy, things may get ugly and they may have burned bridges with Wemby. Could be a slippery slope... I'd like to hear that clip by myself before asuming anything, something could be lost in translation (hopefully).

[rascal]

Provides plenty of time for the Sniff Crew to revise their previous statements and start getting new posts drafted up for how we are tanking in 2024-25 and PAFTO is genius for it.

The FO probably saw the post ASB performance and convinced themselves this team can be competitive next season if we just keep pounding the rock.

This

The Spurs are not going to make any big changes to the current roster this year. They are going to give it another year "to see what we have". Rolling into next year with the same core with the addition of what they get in the draft this year.

[rjv]

Provides plenty of time for the Sniff Crew to revise their previous statements and start getting new posts drafted up for how we are tanking in 2024-25 and PAFTO is genius for it.

The FO probably saw the post ASB performance and convinced themselves this team can be competitive next season if we just keep pounding the rock.

that's not how i read the tweet. i think it was more about the Spurs holding on to their draft capital for 2025. in other words, this was windhorst's way of saying that one shouldn't expect the spurs to make any blockbuster trades that would involve them giving up any of their potential 2025 picks.

[CGD]

1778227616324980935

Water is wet

[Seventyniner]

that's not how i read the tweet. i think it was more about the Spurs holding on to their draft capital for 2025. in other words, this was windhorst's way of saying that one shouldn't expect the spurs to make any blockbuster trades that would involve them giving up any of their potential 2025 picks.

This is also plausible.

[BackHome]

I am so glad that the Spurs did not listen to those of you who were bitching on how the Spurs should never tank and who wanted us to make trades and compete last year. If we had listened to what you all wanted we would not have Wemby in a Spurs uniform. So I am glad again that the organization is not AGAIN listening to you all and will be looking at building through the draft as we did previous Championships. So bring on the Tank for 2025 I am all in :hungry:

[TD 21]

Yeah, sounds weird. I could understand if they said the Spurs have their eyes on the "2025 free agency", as in they don't see any major target right now and would like to keep their powder dry, which wouldn't necessarily mean standing pat. But saying they're focused on the "2025 DRAFT" does suggest another tank, which could honestly get ugly... if the Spurs go that route and they don't come out of the '25 draft with another franchise caliber guy, things may get ugly and they may have burned bridges with Wemby. Could be a slippery slope... I'd like to hear that clip by myself before asuming anything, something could be lost in translation (hopefully).

I didn't hear it either, but he's been saying for months that it's probably their preference based on a combination of how they've always operated and it would have been the obvious plan had they not lucked into a GOAT caliber prospect.

The only '25 1st that has a reasonable chance of landing near the top is the Hawks, but even that would take a lot for it to happen. The Craptors, Bulls and Hornets ones literally can't and the natural one will probably be mid lottery with presumed progression from Wembanyama and modest upgrades anyway.

So "tanking" seems out. Is it just a preference to not trade any of them? If so, fine, but they could still probably get Murray (if they retain Young), Garland (if Mitchell elects to re-sign), etc. without it.

They could easily have their cake and eat it, too.

[spurraider21]

I am so glad that the Spurs did not listen to those of you who were bitching on how the Spurs should never tank and who wanted us to make trades and compete last year. If we had listened to what you all wanted we would not have Wemby in a Spurs uniform. So I am glad again that the organization is not AGAIN listening to you all and will be looking at building through the draft as we did previous Championships. So bring on the Tank for 2025 I am all in :hungry:
are you glad that we are tanking for ron holland right now?

[onechance87]

I am so glad that the Spurs did not listen to those of you who were bitching on how the Spurs should never tank and who wanted us to make trades and compete last year. If we had listened to what you all wanted we would not have Wemby in a Spurs uniform. So I am glad again that the organization is not AGAIN listening to you all and will be looking at building through the draft as we did previous Championships. So bring on the Tank for 2025 I am all in :hungry:

there is no way we are a bottom team next year with wemby supposedly getting better next year along
with his young team supposed to get better to,Plus adding at top 5 pick to this team next year.
If we bottom team again,Thats just means two years wasted with wemby and a roster with branham,sochan,wesley
and vassel that didnt get better and we wasted picks and time trying to develop that has no future.

[rjv]

also, as a side note, it's interesting to see how an amorphous tweet from a narrative driven sports writer can yield so many inferences. in many ways, Windhorst's tweet says nothing. he's just betting on the Spurs not making any seismic moves, but in typical Windy fashion, he makes sure to say "star player" so as to create a window for himself. so that begs the question" "who does Windhorst think is a star player and how many of them are open to leaving their teams or are going to demand a trade?"

[CGD]

also, as a side note, it's interesting to see how an amorphous tweet from a narrative driven sports writer can yield so many inferences. in many ways, Windhorst's tweet says nothing. he's just betting on the Spurs not making any seismic moves, but in typical Windy fashion, he makes sure to say "star player" so as to create a window for himself. so that begs the question" "who does Windhorst think is a star player and how many of them are open to leaving their teams or are going to demand a trade?"

yeah, it's a racket.

[Dejounte]

“Wemby needs to be carried by the 2025 first pick” is going to be narrative. It already is the narrative right now. People are clowning on Wemby for the win/loss record of the team. I don’t think Wemby is as gutless as some of his fans on here who believe they need multiple years of tanking. Wemby actually has a backbone. And that’s a good thing.

[onechance87]

“Wemby needs to be carried by the 2025 first pick” is going to be narrative. It already is the narrative right now. People are clowning on Wemby for the win/loss record of the team. I don’t think Wemby is as gutless as some of his fans on here who believe they need multiple years of tanking. Wemby actually has a backbone. And that’s a good thing.

thats what im thinking,Wemby has proved hes the real deal.Hes not gonna be happy with a plan of tanking and sucking
for 2,3 years and wasting his career to get more rookies who gonna need time to develop like we are doing rn.We got to be
very carefull with our plan.We cant move slow.

[Bruno]

1778176548656312607

Even if Spurs' plan is to do big trades this summer, their best interest is to hide it. If other teams feel Spurs need to do trades, their asking price will increase.

I will just wait to see what Spurs actually do this summer before eventually trashing them.

[BackHome]

there is no way we are a bottom team next year with wemby supposedly getting better next year along
with his young team supposed to get better to,Plus adding at top 5 pick to this team next year.
If we bottom team again,Thats just means two years wasted with wemby and a roster that has no future.

People said same thing as soon as we drafted Wemby taking play in nonsense. I think people are forgetting that right after the season ends Wemby is going to start getting ready for the Olympics which I think will make the Spurs super cautious with his playing time the following season. The organization has pretty much said they are building through the draft and if you really want Wemby to have a chance of getting a Championship in SA you better start praying we get at least two high draft picks in 2025

[onechance87]

People said same thing as soon as we drafted Wemby taking play in nonsense. I think people are forgetting that right after the season ends Wemby is going to start getting ready for the Olympics which I think will make the Spurs super cautious with his playing time the following season. The organization has pretty much said they are building through the draft and if you really want Wemby to have a chance of getting a Championship in SA you better start praying we get at least two high draft picks in 2025

Well if pop didnt do his sochan pg nonsense for like 20 games,Dont think we we would be bottom top 5.Tho i think this
roster is still very bad,And half this roster needs to be gone.

[SpurSpike]

We can eye the 25 draft and still sign a star player and compete... we got Atlantas 25 pick! Perhaps this is just a sign that the Atlanta 25 pick is off limits.

[BackHome]

“Wemby needs to be carried by the 2025 first pick” is going to be narrative. It already is the narrative right now. People are clowning on Wemby for the win/loss record of the team. I don’t think Wemby is as gutless as some of his fans on here who believe they need multiple years of tanking. Wemby actually has a backbone. And that’s a good thing.

Nobody has said we need a 2025 high draft pick to carry Wemby - Come on Dejaunte I expect better from you and if your honest with yourself you would come to the conclusion no 1 player can win a Championship by himself. People who wanted us to tank are wanting us to hopefully get his Batman and get players who can and be able to start in a team that is legitimately competing for a ring. Almost everyone agrees that we need at lear 3 and maybe 4 new starters to achieve this and we all know we are not going to get that number through free agency

[onechance87]

Nobody has said we need a 2025 high draft pick to carry Wemby - Come on Dejaunte I expect better from you and if your honest with yourself you would come to the conclusion no 1 player can win a Championship by himself. People who wanted us to tank are wanting us to hopefully get his Batman and get players who can and be able to start in a team that is legitimately competing for a ring. Almost everyone agrees that we need at lear 3 and maybe 4 new starters to achieve this and we all know we are not going to get that number through free agency

oh we can turn into the pistons and be trash for 10 years straight.This is how it starts.

[DesignatedT]

Waiting for the '25 draft is probably the right move tbh even with the pressure from the media and fanbase. Would love if the Spurs could somehow get one of those older past their prime stars on a loaded 2 year deal or something though. Give Klay 2/$75mm. Everyone knows he's not nearly the player he was but it's at least a little bit of a bridge without affecting the future at all and he provides invaluable shooting. Jrue Holiday is maybe another.

[Degoat]

Waiting for the '25 draft is probably the right move tbh even with the pressure from the media and fanbase. Would love if the Spurs could somehow get one of those older past their prime stars on a loaded 2 year deal or something though. Give Klay 2/$75mm. Everyone knows he's not nearly the player he was but it's at least a little bit of a bridge without affecting the future at all and he provides invaluable shooting. Jrue Holiday is maybe another.

I had the same thoughts! I was thinking Klay or Khris Middleton (Holiday just got extended yesterday) we need some sort of vet that can still contribute on the court and be a leader in the lockeroom

[spurraider21]

Waiting for the '25 draft is probably the right move tbh even with the pressure from the media and fanbase. Would love if the Spurs could somehow get one of those older past their prime stars on a loaded 2 year deal or something though. Give Klay 2/$75mm. Everyone knows he's not nearly the player he was but it's at least a little bit of a bridge without affecting the future at all and he provides invaluable shooting. Jrue Holiday is maybe another.
holiday just signed a 4 year extension yesterday

[BackHome]

Well it looks like Jrue just signed an extension 4 year 135 million contract

[Seventyniner]

The 2025 draft might be the most pivotal one for the Spurs in a long time. Sure the 2023 draft was amazing but picking Victor was a no-brainer. There are far more opportunities to go wrong when the Spurs might have 3, 4, or even 5 firsts next summer.

[BacktoBasics]

That Toronto pick likely holds more value in 2025 for us or a trade partner and I don’t expect Toronto to go for a full blown tank next season.

[CGD]

That Toronto pick likely holds more value in 2025 for us or a trade partner and I don’t expect Toronto to go for a full blown tank next season.

I agree, but think the bellwether on of they enter the Tank for Cooper sweepstakes is what they extend Quickley for.

[exstatic]

Even if Spurs' plan is to do big trades this summer, their best interest is to hide it. If other teams feel Spurs need to do trades, their asking price will increase.
They
I will just wait to see what Spurs actually do this summer before eventually trashing them.

How very unSpurstalk of you.

[scott]

What concerns me about the "look to the 2025 draft" philosophy is that if you want to really play your cards right for the 2025 draft, you probably want to keep as many picks in play as possible and then utilize the best ones to take some guys and then trade the rest. However, this will mean you aren't getting the best value for the worst of those picks. It's not the end of the world, but it's not really value maximization of your assets either.

[SpursBills]

I wanted to see if any guys who are undervalued relative to consensus in the draft. For this simple exercise, I just chose some arbitrary numbers. I'm using college BPM as a catch-all stat to keep things simple, and used fairly arbitrary cutoffs. I wanted to look at elite two way college producers, and how often they led to college NBA success. Basically, the hypothesis is that young age and college production lead to NBA success. I'll keep criteria pretty simple:

BPM > 10, defensive BPM > 4 among FR/SO

2023: None; closest to this criteria was Dereck Lively (BPM 9)
2022: Chet Holmgren (FR, BPM 14); Tari Eason (SO, BPM 13.5); Walker Kessler (SO, BPM 13.2); Mark Williams (SO; 12.1)
2021: Evan Mobley (FR, BPM 12.6); Franz Wagner (SO, BPM 10.6)
2020: Onyeka Okongwu (FR, BPM 10.9); Devon Dotson (SO, BPM 10)
2019: Zion Williamson (FR, BPM 18.7); Xavier Tillman (SO, BPM 10.9), Jarrett Culver (SO, BPM 10.5)
2018: Jaren Jackson Jr (FR, BPM 10.6); Wendell Carter Jr (FR, BPM 10.4)


The above is a pretty wide spread of players that I think that heavily skewed toward bigs. Many of these players were high lottery guys like Mobley, Zion, JJJ and it's an obvious conclusion that good players tend to produce, especially when two-way production is combined with large physical dimensions. I consider Walker Kessler to be a quality future starting center and he might be one of the worst of the bigs on this list. Safe to say that bigs meeting this criteria are a pretty safe bet to become at least a decent starter.

In this class, there are 3 guys meeting this criteria:
Donovan Clingan (SO, BPM 14.1)
Reed Sheppard (FR, BPM 10.9)
Kyle Filipowski (SO, BPM 10.1)

Clingan is probably a good bet to become at least a solid starter, which I think is consensus opinion. Sheppard we've discussed at nauseam here to the point where it's not even that interesting to discuss anymore. However Filipowski was a surprise. Initially he was 15-20s pick for me and seemed a little bit like a stiff who was just ok but not really good at anything. Watching him play he was pretty awkward and nothing was that fluid but I wonder if I am giving him too little credit. I actually did not expect him to grade out so high defensively and I now wonder if he can be the big man version of Franz Wagner.

[jesterbobman]

Pelton just released his stat projection / top 100 combo model for the 2024 draft.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/39906470/nba-draft-2024-projecting-30-best-prospects

Clingan, Shep, Sarr, Edey are the top 4. He has Risacher 5th, though 81st in the stats only model.

Discussion on reddit here. pelton_nba_draft_model_projections (https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/comments/1c1jzpb/pelton_nba_draft_model_projections/)

To add my own thoughts - There are role specific reasons that I think Edey will struggle in moments, though I would be perfectly OK with taking Sarr or Clingan early and then Shep with the Toronto pick. I'd be pretty happy to not address the primary creator whole and do it by committee (especially as I think Wemby's passing is good enough for him to operate as a high post hub, all Jokic), rather than swing on the best option for pure on ball PG / shooting SF in the draft when I'm not sure that those go ahead. Number 1 need is always more good basketball players.

[heyheymymy]

For those who don’t have espn+ here’s his top 30.


Clingan
Sheppard
Sarr
Edey
Risacher
Walter
Dillingham
Furphy
Topic
Castle
Collier
McCain
K. George
Filipowski
Salaun
Sandfort
Matas
Tyler smith
Holland
Carter
Dunn
Carrington
Kam jones
Baylor S
Karaban
Edwards
Cody Williams (!!!)
Kobe Johnson
Missi
Ivisic

[SpurSpike]

Celtics have a lot of money going to a few players. White has played so well for them that they might not be able to afford to keep him past next year...

[spurraider21]

Celtics have a lot of money going to a few players. White has played so well for them that they might not be able to afford to keep him past next year...
spoiler alert:

they will keep him

[Pauleta14]

For those who don’t have espn+ here’s his top 30.


Clingan
Sheppard
Sarr
Edey
Risacher
Walter
Dillingham
Furphy
Topic
Castle
Collier
McCain
K. George
Filipowski
Salaun
Sandfort
Matas
Tyler smith
Holland
Carter
Dunn
Carrington
Kam jones
Baylor S
Karaban
Edwards
Cody Williams (!!!)
Kobe Johnson
Missi
Ivisic



It's a "what have u done for me lately" ranking

They're all lost

[SpurSpike]

spoiler alert:

they will keep him


Yeah they are probably waiting on Horfords deal to expire and make an extension offer to White after the 24-25 season.

[baseline bum]

It's a "what have u done for me lately" ranking

They're all lost

Walters at six is nuts. He can't shoot threes and yet gets ranked that high when Pelton literally says Walter's 3-point shooting will be a make-or-break skill.

Full article here: https://archive.is/3cIoO

[Pauleta14]

Walters at six is nuts. He can't shoot threes and yet gets ranked that high when Pelton literally says Walter's 3-point shooting will be a make-or-break skill.

Full article here: https://archive.is/3cIoO

Thx for the link

I'm genuinely lost myself but haven't been convinced by any mocks I've seen

Not a bad draft for role players but no allstar potentials = I get why PATFO wnats to get out of the bottom 3 to avoid paying stupid money for an average guy (+ save some cap space?)

[objective]

Juan Nunez up to #23 in the first in last ESPN mock

I say if they don't get a point prospect or small guard prospect in the lotto, trade up and into the first to grab Nunez

[skin27]

Fck that 2025 draft. Wemby needs a winning team as early as next season.

[Dejounte]

The mighty great Risacher’s latest game:

2 points
1 rebound
1 assist
1/6 FG
0/2 3PT
2 turnovers
22 minutes

but still considered by some here a tier 1 prospect and a “great shooter” when he is sub 20% 3pt in 18 games on 66 attempts. Somehow not making open shots is because of a “rookie wall”.

there doesn’t need to be another player to step up to make this guy fall off his tier, he should already be doing that on his own but folks are stubborn with their “he’s 6’9! And he could shoot months ago!”

[scott]

The mighty great Risacher’s latest game:

2 points
1 rebound
1 assist
1/6 FG
0/2 3PT
2 turnovers
22 minutes

but still considered by some here a tier 1 prospect and a “great shooter” when he is sub 20% 3pt in 18 games on 66 attempts. Somehow not making open shots is because of a “rookie wall”.

there doesn’t need to be another player to step up to make this guy fall off his tier, he should already be doing that on his own but folks are stubborn with their “he’s 6’9! And he could shoot months ago!”

Don't forget, he's French too.

[Ariel]

The mighty great Risacher’s latest game:

2 points
1 rebound
1 assist
1/6 FG
0/2 3PT
2 turnovers
22 minutes

but still considered by some here a tier 1 prospect and a “great shooter” when he is sub 20% 3pt in 18 games on 66 attempts. Somehow not making open shots is because of a “rookie wall”.

there doesn’t need to be another player to step up to make this guy fall off his tier, he should already be doing that on his own but folks are stubborn with their “he’s 6’9! And he could shoot months ago!”
This string of bad games catches my eye, it's too hard of a drop off from his former performances and I'd be interested in hearing from our French friends if there's some context to it (injury, team wise, etc).

[Ariel]

For those who don’t have espn+ here’s his top 30.


Clingan
Sheppard
Sarr
Edey
Risacher
Walter
Dillingham
Furphy
Topic
Castle
Collier
McCain
K. George
Filipowski
Salaun
Sandfort
Matas
Tyler smith
Holland
Carter
Dunn
Carrington
Kam jones
Baylor S
Karaban
Edwards
Cody Williams (!!!)
Kobe Johnson
Missi
Ivisic


Clingan at 1? JaKobe Walter at 6? Buzelis at 17? I can put together a better mock than that one in my sleep.

[Racspur1]

UConn center Donovan Clingan entering NBA draft

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39929419/uconn-center-donovan-clingan-entering-nba-draft

Now what ?:dizzy :hungry::smokin