2024 NBA Draft Thread

[Bruno]

Even if it's still very early, this upcoming draft will be a key part of Spurs' rebuilding plan. I think it's time to talk a little on prospects/players we like, what Spurs should do and various draft related things...

Spurs 2024 draft picks:
- Spurs first round pick.
- Raptors first round pick (top 6 protected)
- Hornets first round pick (top 14 protected)
- Spurs second round pick (if it's in the 31-49 range)
- Lakers second round pick

[Bruno]

A projection on what picks we should expect based on various win/loss projections like the ones made by espn:
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/38236536/nba-predictions-2023-24-win-loss-records-boston-celtics-new-york-knicks-every-eastern-conference-team
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/38242869/win-loss-records-denver-nuggets-los-angeles-lakers-every-western-conference-team

- Spurs are projected to be part of a 6 teams group alongside Blazers, Rockets, Wizards, Pistons and Hornets that will be the worst in the league. The pick will obviously depend on the lottery which should put it in the 1st to 8th range.

- Spurs have a good chance to get Raptors pick. They are projected to be between the worst team outside the previous 6 teams and making the play-in. I would say Spurs have a 80% chance of getting a second first round pick between 7th and 18th.

- It's unlikely Spurs got the Hornets pick. Maybe there is a 10% chance of getting a pick between 15th and 18th from it.

We can expect the following for Spurs in the 2024 draft:
- Spurs' first round pick between 1st and 8th.
- Raptors' first round pick between 7th and 18th.
- Spurs' second round pick between 31st and 36th.
- Lakers second round pick around 50th.

[Bruno]

1701340203216932936

[Dejounte]

Anticipation for a draft that is a year from now is probably the saddest thing a fan could do tbh

What the draft projections look like now vs how it will look even a month or two from the draft is night and day

to look at these kids this early is a pointless endeavor. And anyone who ignores the present time is a sad existence.

an unpopular opinion. So bring on the hate idgaf

[Fizziksman]

So I guess the dream of reaching for Bronny to try to convivence LeBron to come to SA is over?

[spurraider21]

Anticipation for a draft that is a year from now is probably the saddest thing a fan could do tbh

What the draft projections look like now vs how it will look even a month or two from the draft is night and day

to look at these kids this early is a pointless endeavor. And anyone who ignores the present time is a sad existence.

an unpopular opinion. So bring on the hate idgaf
damn so you werent even looking at wemby until after we won the lottery?

i usually dont follow it as much in basketball, but personally im a huge fan of the draft process when it comes to the NFL. some people love that part of fanhood, some dont

[CGD]

1701340203216932936

I appreciate the thread. My mind immediately goes to PG since it’s the need, but I know it’s often folly to draft for need high in the draft. Could this be the draft though since it’s considered to be weak? If so is Collier really the guy?

[heyheymymy]

People always say way too early and it's true you can only look at it abstractly

But I like to track the progression of how players sink and rise

Never to early to scout and familiarize yourself with names and schools and NCAA is a few months away and you're already up to speed on players to keep on your radar

[Seventyniner]

I hope the Spurs' natural pick is #30.

[Dejounte]

damn so you werent even looking at wemby until after we won the lottery?

i usually dont follow it as much in basketball, but personally im a huge fan of the draft process when it comes to the NFL. some people love that part of fanhood, some dont


Nope, I didn’t.

I just don’t understand simping over low possibility outcomes that are over half a year out. Time is valuable and in my personal view, better spent exploring the possibilities that are closer to the now because we can close those doors and open new ones… as opposed to waiting for a door that might not even have a key and you end up just wasting your time standing in front of a door you can’t open.

[NickiRasgo]

Vintage Bruno.

[exstatic]

Nope, I didn’t.

I just don’t understand simping over low possibility outcomes that are over half a year out. Time is valuable and in my personal view, better spent exploring the possibilities that are closer to the now because we can close those doors and open new ones… as opposed to waiting for a door that might not even have a key and you end up just wasting your time standing in front of a door you can’t open.

You literally do that every year.

[Uriel]

Wrong draft but

https://opoyi.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/F3RarndWEAAmAZB-e1691786563619.jpg

[Mr. Body]

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Spurs finish above both Charlotte and Toronto. I think they'll be much better than these pundits say.

As for following players, there's little sense in looking at rankings this early. Things will wind up completely different. By January or February we start to know which players actually should be highly regarded. Every year they are wildly off.

[JPB]

1701340203216932936

As always, they totally ignore foreign players in their early mock drafts... Risacher is top 5, if not higher.

[Dejounte]

You literally do that every year.

Wrong. Emphasis “over half a year out”. I usually start my process when the playoffs are out of the picture, which means 60 games in or sometime in March, a time when draft positioning is clearer and lottery prospects start to separate themselves from the pack. That’s a door that I know I’ll be standing in front of that’s likely to open.

[TD 21]

I appreciate the thread. My mind immediately goes to PG since it’s the need, but I know it’s often folly to draft for need high in the draft. Could this be the draft though since it’s considered to be weak? If so is Collier really the guy?

No, Proctor is. He's got Spur written all over him.

[Ariel]

Watched a bit of Ignite vs Perth. Liked Holland, Sarr and Almansa. The latter doesn't seem like the best fit since there's an overlap with Wemby, Sochan and Barlow, but he's an interesting guy, super smart and resourceful. He might not be flashy but he's a really sound basketball player. For a while I've been really intrigued by the combination of size and skill by Buzelis in older clips, but by the game he seems shorter than advertised and was underwhelming though it's too soon to jump to any conclusions, of course. As for the NCAA, the guy I'm most looking forward to watching is Edwards. Not really sure about the guards, though.

[Ariel]

As always, they totally ignore foreign players in their early mock drafts... Risacher is top 5, if not higher.
Sarr is French and Almansa is a Spaniard. I don't think it's chauvinism that kept Risacher from being top 10...

[Bruno]

As always, they totally ignore foreign players in their early mock drafts... Risacher is top 5, if not higher.

Risacher didn't play well at the U19 WC, that's why he has slipped in recent mock drafts.

[exstatic]

While Amen Thompson is an interesting prospect, I have a hard time seeing any team draft an Overtime Elite player in the lotto, much less the top 5 pick. I believe no player was drafted from that league in the first or second round last year. Just seems like a stretch that all of a sudden teams start to trust that league.

November 2022 discussion about the 2023 draft.

[Kurik]

Wrong. Emphasis “over half a year out”. I usually start my process when the playoffs are out of the picture, which means 60 games in or sometime in March, a time when draft positioning is clearer and lottery prospects start to separate themselves from the pack. That’s a door that I know I’ll be standing in front of that’s likely to open.

How many posts have you made in this thread? Seems sadder for something that is pointless. I’m a vegan/do CrossFit vibes.

[Dejounte]

How many posts have you made in this thread? Seems sadder for something that is pointless. I’m a vegan/do CrossFit vibes.

The same number as you if you’re quoted by multiple people and are asked for a response tbh

[DPG21920]

I mean, I agree with Bruno on the CHA pick, but there is a sliver of hope there if LaMelo can stay healthy, getting Bridges back and Brandon Miller.

Teams that seem like a lock to make playoffs in East:

PHI
BOS
NY
MIL
CLE

Teams on the bubble of making PO: TOR, CHI, MIA & ATL - so that means CHA would have to beat out 2 of those 4 teams. Best bet seems like CHA making the play-in as 9th or 10th and winning that to get into playoff.

[TDomination]

I hope the Spurs' natural pick is #30.

me too!

[spurraider21]

I mean, I agree with Bruno on the CHA pick, but there is a sliver of hope there if LaMelo can stay healthy, getting Bridges back and Brandon Miller.

Teams that seem like a lock to make playoffs in East:

PHI
BOS
NY
MIL
CLE

Teams on the bubble of making PO: TOR, CHI, MIA & ATL - so that means CHA would have to beat out 2 of those 4 teams. Best bet seems like CHA making the play-in as 9th or 10th and winning that to get into playoff.
could see charlotte being on the cusp and then pulling the plug end of the year

[exstatic]

could see charlotte being on the cusp and then pulling the plug end of the year

They can’t tank again, or risk losing LaMelo. They have to go all out and be as good as they can. I think they should make the playoffs. They have mostly the same cast back from their playoff team of two years ago, plus Williams and Miller added to their mix.

[Mr. Body]

I don't know if Charlotte makes the playoffs, but the East is weaker than often presented. Celtics have been near-dominant with a repetitive, one-note roster, Philadelphia is on the verge of implosion, Cleveland is above average, Milwaukee is aging. It's a conference so poor a shot-in-the-pan Miami team made it to the Finals, where they were dominated by a 53-win Denver team.

Charlotte's problem is that they're all knuckleheads.

[DPG21920]

could see charlotte being on the cusp and then pulling the plug end of the year

Possible, but with some new owners etc and how much losing they have done? I can see them very much valuing the playoffs too vs say another pick 14. But you’re right….have to see how it shakes out and it will obviously depend largely on LaMelos health. Feels like a big season for him to prove he’s a legit impact player.

[spurraider21]

Possible, but with some new owners etc and how much losing they have done? I can see them very much valuing the playoffs too vs say another pick 14. But you’re right….have to see how it shakes out and it will obviously depend largely on LaMelos health. Feels like a big season for him to prove he’s a legit impact player.
hayward/bridges playing on contract years as well

they have some talented pieces but dno if it will come together. here's hoping

[BacktoBasics]

I haven’t seen much in the way of names in the draft yet. I would think our priorities would be

1. Prolific 3 level scorer wing/guard
2. PG
3. Big Depth

I put pg 2nd because I think that’s a position that could be filled in a lot of ways where it’ll be tough to find a legit number 1 scorer outside of the draft.

[DPG21920]

hayward/bridges playing on contract years as well

they have some talented pieces but dno if it will come together. here's hoping

Ya I’m not exactly holding my breath lol….I’d give it a 20% chance largely because LaMelo never stays healthy and even if he did? Not sure he’s a legit winning player overall. But I really hope they get off to a solid start.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

I think Charlotte is a playoff team if healthy. I like them better than Chicago and Toronto, and maybe even Atlanta in the east. They still have the entire core of the team that won 43 games two years ago. Add Williams from last year's draft who looks like a player and if Miller is any good (I think he will be), that's a solid roster.

I know the fear is that the Charlotte pick never conveys, but I don't know about the Spurs having three FRP in what is considered, at least right now, to be a pretty weak draft. Spurs also have 10 guys on the roster 23 years of age or younger. Seems like overkill on the youth movement and a recipe for talented young guys getting lost in the shuffle or not having enough space to grow.

[DPG21920]

I think Charlotte is a playoff team if healthy. I like them better than Chicago and Toronto, and maybe even Atlanta in the east. They still have the entire core of the team that won 43 games two years ago. Add Williams from last year's draft who looks like a player and if Miller is any good (I think he will be), that's a solid roster.

I know the fear is that the Charlotte pick never conveys, but I don't know about the Spurs having three FRP in what is considered, at least right now, to be a pretty weak draft. Spurs also have 10 guys on the roster 23 years of age or younger. Seems like overkill on the youth movement and a recipe for talented young guys getting lost in the shuffle or not having enough space to grow.

More about trade value IMO - can “overpay” to consolidate picks and move up for player you want and/or use them all to trade for a star

[Mr. Body]

Ya I’m not exactly holding my breath lol….I’d give it a 20% chance largely because LaMelo never stays healthy and even if he did? Not sure he’s a legit winning player overall. But I really hope they get off to a solid start.

Agree, LaMello isn't a guy who will put in the time and learn sets and will grind out wins. He's a seat-of-the-pants improv player who will win games but will never be a threat for more.

[exstatic]

Agree, LaMello isn't a guy who will put in the time and learn sets and will grind out wins. He's a seat-of-the-pants improv player who will win games but will never be a threat for more.

We don't need him to win an LoB, just make the playoffs. Those kinds of players get into the post season all of the time.

[Mr. Body]

We don't need him to win an LoB, just make the playoffs. Those kinds of players get into the post season all of the time.

I don't think we're disagreeing with that.

[ismael-robert]

Dumb thread is dumb

[buttsR4rebounding]

Watched a bit of Ignite vs Perth. Liked Holland, Sarr and Almansa. The latter doesn't seem like the best fit since there's an overlap with Wemby, Sochan and Barlow, but he's an interesting guy, super smart and resourceful. He might not be flashy but he's a really sound basketball player. For a while I've been really intrigued by the combination of size and skill by Buzelis in older clips, but by the game he seems shorter than advertised and was underwhelming though it's too soon to jump to any conclusions, of course. As for the NCAA, the guy I'm most looking forward to watching is Edwards. Not really sure about the guards, though.

I am really intrigued by Edwards as well. I watched most of the Kentucky/Germany game and Edwards was meh. Only one game, but he was getting blown by on defense pretty regularly. He did recover for some nice blocks though. Seemed out of sync on Offense. Couple of air ball jumpers. The guy who really looked good was DJ Wagner. It like I said one game.

[scott]

Anticipation for a draft that is a year from now is probably the saddest thing a fan could do tbh

What the draft projections look like now vs how it will look even a month or two from the draft is night and day

to look at these kids this early is a pointless endeavor. And anyone who ignores the present time is a sad existence.

an unpopular opinion. So bring on the hate idgaf

Alt take: people can post threads on topics they enjoy discussing, and those who don’t share that enjoyment are free to not click on such threads

[scott]

I don’t think CHA pick ever conveys. I understand that they need to try to win, I just don’t think they are good enough and their management thus far hasn’t inspired any confidence. I’m definitely bearish on that pick, and I’m also becoming increasingly bearish on the CHI pick.

I don’t understand what it is they are trying to accomplish with this DDR/Lavine/Vooch core that seems to be regressing rather than improving. Another play-in season or even a near miss could ignite them to want to completely rebuild. Is the window for that pick still 25 and 26, or did it get pushed to 26 and 27?

[exstatic]

I don’t think CHA pick ever conveys. I understand that they need to try to win, I just don’t think they are good enough and their management thus far hasn’t inspired any confidence. I’m definitely bearish on that pick, and I’m also becoming increasingly bearish on the CHI pick.

I don’t understand what it is they are trying to accomplish with this DDR/Lavine/Vooch core that seems to be regressing rather than improving. Another play-in season or even a near miss could ignite them to want to completely rebuild. Is the window for that pick still 25 and 26, or did it get pushed to 26 and 27?

Jordan is gone. That alone should be worth 5 wins.

As for Chicago, that pick varies between top 10 and top 8 protection. That weird core they have is pretty much destined to be late lottery,so unless they hit big luck multiple times jumping into the top 4, it should easily convey.

[CGD]

I haven’t seen much in the way of names in the draft yet. I would think our priorities would be

1. Prolific 3 level scorer wing/guard
2. PG
3. Big Depth

I put pg 2nd because I think that’s a position that could be filled in a lot of ways where it’ll be tough to find a legit number 1 scorer outside of the draft.

Im actually starting to get intrigued by this draft. The top players seem to be SFs which is always a position of need in this league. One of Matas, Holland, Zach or Edwards could be an excellent fit up front along with Sochan and Wemby.

PG will continue to be the glaring need but I dont think they should force the pick

[JPB]

Anticipation for a draft that is a year from now is probably the saddest thing a fan could do tbh

What the draft projections look like now vs how it will look even a month or two from the draft is night and day

to look at these kids this early is a pointless endeavor. And anyone who ignores the present time is a sad existence.

an unpopular opinion. So bring on the hate idgaf

Lol relax, this is just basketball. And it's summer time in a spurs forum, people come by to talk about shit and stuff waiting for next season. And trying to briefly see where next year's eligible guys are at and starting being familiar or follow some intriguing prospects is perfectly fine. That's actually what every NBA team is doing. We all know it will be corrected and refined troughout the year, that's the game... The "spurs should draft Victor Wembanyama in 2023" thread was created more than one year before he was drafted.

But thanks for coming and posting in a thread to say you don't like it.

[scott]

Jordan is gone. That alone should be worth 5 wins.

As for Chicago, that pick varies between top 10 and top 8 protection. That weird core they have is pretty much destined to be late lottery,so unless they hit big luck multiple times jumping into the top 4, it should easily convey.

I agree with this part, which is also why Chicago might want to pull the plug, much like we did, after this season if they open their eyes to where their ceiling is with the current make up of the team.

[exstatic]

I agree with this part, which is also why Chicago might want to pull the plug, much like we did, after this season if they open their eyes to where their ceiling is with the current make up of the team.

We pulled the plug by trading, in consecutive years, healthy performing All Stars. I think they could find a taker for DeRozan,but would struggle to move bothe Vooch and Lavine. The latter may never be the same after playing on a bum knee in a contract year to secure his current deal.

[Bruno]

A french player I would keep an eye on is Melvin Ajinça (cousin of the former NAB player Alexis Ajinça). He hasn't that much upside but he is an athletic SF who can shoot and defend. If he keeps improving, he has a clear path as a great 3&D NBA role player.

[Biggems]

my first pet cat for next year's draft is C Alexandre Sarr - France

[Ariel]

I don’t think CHA pick ever conveys. I understand that they need to try to win, I just don’t think they are good enough and their management thus far hasn’t inspired any confidence. I’m definitely bearish on that pick, and I’m also becoming increasingly bearish on the CHI pick.
Last year was a catastrophy with Lamelo out for the year basically and Miles Bridges' legal issues, but 02 years ago they had 43 wins with basically the same core.
Now Lamelo and Hayward are back and Miles Bridges should be motivated to earn himself the payday he fumbled. If we take into consideration Mark Williams growth and Brandon Miller contributes right away at least to some degree, on paper that's a team talented enough to make the play in.
You'd have Boston, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Miami comfortably ahead on the same tier in terms of chances of making the playoffs, and then a few teams like NY, Atlanta and Indiana in the next. Then you have Toronto, Chicago and Orlando, I would put Charlotte in this tier as well, as teams that are unlikely to clinch a top 6 seed but can very well get into the 7-10 range. I expect Brooklyn to regress, Washington is tanking, and Detroit isn't there yet.
IMO best case scenario is Charlotte ends up as a 7th/8th seed, last year for reference Atlanta was 8th seed with a .500 record. That would give them 2 chances, and once you're there it's a couple of games where anything may happen. So all in all I'm not saying it's likely, but I do think there's a chance, if planets align.

I don’t understand what it is they are trying to accomplish with this DDR/Lavine/Vooch core that seems to be regressing rather than improving. Another play-in season or even a near miss could ignite them to want to completely rebuild. Is the window for that pick still 25 and 26, or did it get pushed to 26 and 27?
The window starts in '25 because it was 2 years after the pick owed to Orlando conveyed, which happened this year. If they're tanking it should be now, worst case scenario for us is they wait this season and then blow it up. Then there's a real chance that pick isn't conveying. We're walking a fine line where Charlotte should make the playoffs, but Chicago should at least make the play in with some hope so that they don't blow it up yet, plus Toronto is bad but not that bad. Could end up great, but likely we won't get them all.

[Ariel]

Im actually starting to get intrigued by this draft. The top players seem to be SFs which is always a position of need in this league. One of Matas, Holland, Zach or Edwards could be an excellent fit up front along with Sochan and Wemby.

PG will continue to be the glaring need but I dont think they should force the pick
I agree with all of this, definitely we should take best player available unless we're talking the same tier. Also we're not set at SF and you can't have too many of them in the modern game, all things being equal this would be my preference even over a guard.

[ismael-robert]

If spending time thinking about next years draft need to get a hobby

[Ariel]

Thank God there forum police is here to let us know when we get off track so that we can go back to engaging in more "Kevin Tran is on the Spurs watch list" threads::drunk

Dumb thread is dumb

If spending time thinking about next years draft need to get a hobby
No one makes worse use of their time than those bitching about how others spend theirs', and I'd be wary of calling others dumb while failing to see the irony in doing so.

[Ariel]

Alt take: people can post threads on topics they enjoy discussing, and those who don’t share that enjoyment are free to not click on such threads
Funny to see how the forum is dead yet there's always someone available to give others advice on what to talk about and what not to. As if posting in a basketball forum was EVER about productivity and they were any different :lol

[heyheymymy]

Oddly enough I'm looking forward to Dejounte's draft analysis but only when more appropriate apparently lol

If I recall correctly he scouted out Jalen Williams properly pre combine climb when he was still a late first early second-ish in mocks and nobody was name dropping at all

[ismael-robert]

Took me 5 seconds...how long "analysis" take

[Thomas82]

my first pet cat for next year's draft is C Alexandre Sarr - France

That's mine as well. And I like Donovan Clingon too.

[exstatic]

Took me 5 seconds...how long "analysis" take

You’re still missing the irony of you posting in a thread that you call dumb.

[spurraider21]

If spending time thinking about next years draft need to get a hobby
What if your hobby is following the nba draft

[The Truth #6]

Oddly enough I'm looking forward to Dejounte's draft analysis but only when more appropriate apparently lol

If I recall correctly he scouted out Jalen Williams properly pre combine climb when he was still a late first early second-ish in mocks and nobody was name dropping at all

I think it's about territory and identity protection. I agree that draft analysis now is way too early but what else is there to talk about until training camp? Better than more political/personal feuding.

[Ariel]

I think it's about territory and identity protection. I agree that draft analysis now is way too early but what else is there to talk about until training camp? Better than more political/personal feuding.
Well... you can go through every thread that DOESN'T interest you, and bitch about how it's DUMB/UNPRODUCTIVE. That sounds like a super smart and productive use of your time, I don't know how I didn't think of it before :monkey

PS: it's SARCASM, I'm reinforcing your point if it didn't come across clearly enough.

[Ariel]

What if your hobby is following the nba draft
Why now though. It isn't until December that RC & Pop start scrolling through Spurstalk to figure out who they're going to take.

[The Truth #6]

Well... you can go through every thread that DOESN'T interest you, and bitch about how it's DUMB/UNPRODUCTIVE. That sounds like a super smart and productive use of your time, I don't know how I didn't think of it before :monkey

No, it does interest me. Your takes on this are all over the place so I can't see what point you're trying to make.

[Ariel]

No, it does interest me. Your takes on this are all over the place so I can't see what point you're trying to make.
It's sarcasm, my guy, I agree with you. Every post I've made points towards the same: being here is just for entertainment purposes as no one is ever going to make any use out of it, so posting now or doing so in December is all the same, it doesn't have any effect in the real world and thinking otherwise is pretentious BS (as if the Spurs needed us to make their scouting :lol). So you should talk whatever you want whenever you want, and whomever doesn't like it, is free to skip right ahead.

[R. DeMurre]

Why as a basketball fan, hearing about about an interesting prospect who's 17 or 18 years old and has just done something impressive at a camp or invitational, would you <not> want to chat about it with your other basketball friends? It's such a disingenuous take. It doesn't mean you're changing the parameters of the basketball world. It's basketball fans talking about basketball. I can't imagine a less controversial subject, or a subject less in need of some self proclaimed sheriff emperor to monitor it.

[KingKev]

Ya’ll make me me laugh!

You have to think between our own pick and the Raps we potentially have TWO top 10 picks in the 2024 draft. I’ll be following college ball way more closely this year.

[exstatic]

Ya’ll make me me laugh!

You have to think between our own pick and the Raps we potentially have TWO top 10 picks in the 2024 draft. I’ll be following college ball way more closely this year.

Yeah, TOR is shopping OG and Siakam, hoping to cash out to some level on one of them, and not lose both of them like FVV this past summer. I think they know they need to restructure around Scottie Barnes, and aren't worried about the pick we are owed. Just convey it and get it over with next year.

[Ariel]

Yeah, TOR is shopping OG and Siakam, hoping to cash out to some level on one of them, and not lose both of them like FVV this past summer. I think they know they need to restructure around Scottie Barnes, and aren't worried about the pick we are owed. Just convey it and get it over with next year.
The light protection is key here, for them to make sure the pick doesn't convey Toronto would have to end up bottom 2 for 3 years in a row, they're not willing to go that far.
Even finishing 4th worst 3 straight years gives you about even odds of conveying (~46.7%) and not (~53.3%), and beyond that (5th & below) that increases dramatically.
They'll surely try to lessen the value of the pick rather than keep it from conveying, it's the most sensible path.

[Ariel]

You have to think between our own pick and the Raps we potentially have TWO top 10 picks in the 2024 draft. I’ll be following college ball way more closely this year.
There's also a bunch of interesting prospects on G-League Ignite (Ron Holland, Matas Buzelis, Izan Almansa, Thierry Darlan, etc) and outside the NBA (Alexandre Sarr and Risacher). Hopefully some Ignite games are accessible.

[KingKev]

Yeah, TOR is shopping OG and Siakam, hoping to cash out to some level on one of them, and not lose both of them like FVV this past summer. I think they know they need to restructure around Scottie Barnes, and aren't worried about the pick we are owed. Just convey it and get it over with next year.

Agreed. Even the local fan base wants them to pick a direction. Unless Barnes really shows out they are probably a play-in team. If he does they are a star away from pretenders but still not contention IMO. That draft pick is pretty damn valuable. If that converts late lottery oh man it is on. REPARATIONS.

[CGD]

Filing this away in the Isiah Collier folder. Very interesting. https://www.si.com/nba/draft/prospect-profiles/nba-draft-scouting-report-uscs-isaiah-collier

[drpill]

IMO Collier would be just the player to take this team to the next level. But how high do you need to pick to have the chance to get him? If the Spurs overachieve even a little they likely won't have a shot at him. I wonder if they could package the presumed Raptors pick or another asset with their first to move into the top 3 if needed. There will be other options, but a Wemby-Collier pairing could really be something.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Collier would be a fantastic pick up. I also was impressed with DJ Wagner in the game against Germany. I was watching to see Justin Edwards whose hype seems to fit with the Spurs needs, but Wagner stole the show.

[rascal]

my first pet cat for next year's draft is C Alexandre Sarr - France

No, Spurs need to come out of the draft with a top PG.

[rascal]

Agreed. Even the local fan base wants them to pick a direction. Unless Barnes really shows out they are probably a play-in team. If he does they are a star away from pretenders but still not contention IMO. That draft pick is pretty damn valuable. If that converts late lottery oh man it is on. REPARATIONS.

If Toronto looks to not be making the playoffs which is most probable I see them going into a full tank to make sure they keep their draft pick.

No incentive for them to fall into the range where the spurs will get the pick. Don't count on that Toronto pick next year.
It's best if the Spurs lock a top five draft pick with their own pick, just use next year as another rebuilding year.

[exstatic]

If Toronto looks to not be making the playoffs which is most probable I see them going into a full tank to make sure they keep their draft pick.

No incentive for them to fall into the range where the spurs will get the pick. Don't count on that Toronto pick next year.
It's best if the Spurs lock a top five draft pick with their own pick, just use next year as another rebuilding year.

They can’t actually completely protect the pick unless they are in the top 2 worst teams, and you can’t decide to do that if it looks like you’re not going to make the playoffs. You have to do that out of the gate. If they’re making a run, and it looks like they won’t quite make the playoffs, it’s really hard to climb up higher in the pre-lottery positioning, because everyone above you is tanking, and they’ve been doing it all year. If they’re at like 9 or 10, it would be very difficult to climb to even 6, and even if they did, someone could jump over them, knocking them back to 7, and that pick into our laps.

Any team can be knocked back up to 4 spots by the lottery draw like Detroit was last year.

[buttsR4rebounding]

If Toronto looks to not be making the playoffs which is most probable I see them going into a full tank to make sure they keep their draft pick.

No incentive for them to fall into the range where the spurs will get the pick. Don't count on that Toronto pick next year.
It's best if the Spurs lock a top five draft pick with their own pick, just use next year as another rebuilding year.

No way the Raptors are tanking. You don't sign Poeltl to the contract they did to tank. For all the praise that Ujiri gets he sure has stunk it up the past couple of years. I can see not thinking FVV was the guy to lead your team, but how do you not trade him at the deadline last year? Anyway with Poeltl, PS and OG they may not make the playoffs, but no way they are a bottom 5 team. So unless they win the lottery this pick conveys this year.

[exstatic]

No way the Raptors are tanking. You don't sign Poeltl to the contract they did to tank. For all the praise that Ujiri gets he sure has stunk it up the past couple of years. I can see not thinking FVV was the guy to lead your team, but how do you not trade him at the deadline last year? Anyway with Poeltl, PS and OG they may not make the playoffs, but no way they are a bottom 5 team. So unless they win the lottery this pick conveys this year.
Yeah, Masai screwed the pooch on that one, for sure.

[CGD]

If Toronto looks to not be making the playoffs which is most probable I see them going into a full tank to make sure they keep their draft pick.

No incentive for them to fall into the range where the spurs will get the pick. Don't count on that Toronto pick next year.
It's best if the Spurs lock a top five draft pick with their own pick, just use next year as another rebuilding year.

Dude the whole story here is that Raptors have failed to pick a path and it’s costing them. They’ve lost players for nothing. They stand to lose more players for nothing next summer. Their GM has never tried to intentionally suck. They’re stuck and doing nothing about it.

So they’re middling and indecision should help the Spurs.

[CGD]

Yeah, Masai screwed the pooch on that one, for sure.

Not just FVV but also Lowery before him. Will give him a pass on Nephew though.

[Biggems]

No, Spurs need to come out of the draft with a top PG.

If we get 2 picks in the draft first

1a - PF/C Alexandre Sarr
1b - PG Garway Dual

[buttsR4rebounding]

If we get 2 picks in the draft first

1a - PF/C Alexandre Sarr
1b - PG Garway Dual

I love Sarr. Him and Wemby would make for a great duo, but Dual is more of a shooting guard. His court awareness is definitely lacking.

[TD 21]

Hopefully the national media's usual pushing of the Craptors agenda claiming they're the looming boogeyman in the Lillard sweepstakes is just their typical propaganda and not true.

A 3 teamer with the Hawks, who'd receive Siakam (and send out some combination of Mills, Fernando and G. Matthews to make the math work), with the Trail Blazers receiving Hunter, Griffin, Boucher + draft capital from both and them receiving Lillard, could be an option.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Interestingly just as 2nd round picks become more valuable because of the new CBA next draft 8 teams don’t have a SRP and 3 teams-GS, NJ and Toronto (assuming their FRP conveys) don’t have any picks at all.

[Bruno]

Latest espn mock draft has 6 PGs in the top17:
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/38471400/2024-nba-mock-draft-why-alex-sarr-vying-consideration-no-1-pick

#2: Isaiah Collier
#7: Stephon Castle
#10: D.J. Wagner
#14: Tyrese Proctor
#16: Jared McCain
#17: Elmarko Jackson

Of course, I know it's still very early some of theses players will drop/rise/disappear and new ones will appear. Saying that, it's still better to have a PGs heavy draft as starting point than the opposite.

[Mr. Body]

Latest espn mock draft has 6 PGs in the top17:
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/38471400/2024-nba-mock-draft-why-alex-sarr-vying-consideration-no-1-pick

#2: Isaiah Collier
#7: Stephon Castle
#10: D.J. Wagner
#14: Tyrese Proctor
#16: Jared McCain
#17: Elmarko Jackson

Of course, I know it's still very early some of theses players will drop/rise/disappear and new ones will appear. Saying that, it's still better to have a PGs heavy draft as starting point than the opposite.

This past draft was pretty good with PGs (ultimately we'll see) and other than Scoot I believe none of the lottery points were ranked early in the season at all. It'll be interesting to see what happens this year.

[Bruno]

This past draft was pretty good with PGs (ultimately we'll see) and other than Scoot I believe none of the lottery points were ranked early in the season at all. It'll be interesting to see what happens this year.

For reference, the 2023 mock draft made at about the same time:
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/34697634/2023-nba-mock-draft-previewing-victor-wembanyama-vs-scoot-henderson

[Mr. Body]

For reference, the 2023 mock draft made at about the same time:
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/34697634/2023-nba-mock-draft-previewing-victor-wembanyama-vs-scoot-henderson

I can't see it, but I don't think Bufkin, Black or even Wallace were considered that high. Keyonte George might have been and Nick Smith (who I don't regard as a PG) was very high.

[Bruno]

^
2023 espn mock draft made on oct 4 2022

1. Victor Wembanyama
2. Scoot Henderson
3. Amen Thompson
4. Nick Smith
5. Cameron Whitmore
6. Dereck Lively
7. Keyonte George
8. Ausar Thompson
9. Dillon Mitchell
10. Kel'el Ware
11.Dariq Whitehead
12. Terquavion Smith
13. Cason Wallace
14. Jarace Walker
15. Anthony Black
16. Rayan Rupert
17. Julian Phillips
18. Gradey Dick
19. Brandon Miller
20. GG Jackson
21. Leonard Miller
22. Adem Bona
23. Kyle Filipowski
24. Sidy Cissoko
25. Nikola Durisic
26. Jordan Walsh
27. Chris Livingston
28. J.J. Starling
29.Marcus Sasser
30. Amari Bailey

[Bruno]

The 2024 version:
1. Ron Holland | G League Ignite | SF | Age: 18.2
2. Isaiah Collier | USC | PG | Age: 18.9
3. Matas Buzelis | G League Ignite | SF | Age: 18.9
4. Alex Sarr | Perth Wildcats | PF/C | Age: 18.4
5. Justin Edwards | Kentucky | SG/SF | Age: 19.7
6. Donovan Clingan | UConn | C | Age: 19.5
7. Stephon Castle | UConn | PG/SG | Age: 18.9
8. Izan Almansa | G League Ignite | PF/C | Age: 18.2
9. Kyle Filipowski | Duke | PF/C | Age: 19.8
10. D.J. Wagner | Kentucky | PG/SG | Age: 18.4
11. Zaccharie Risacher | JL Bourg | SF | Age: 18.4
12. Kel'el Ware | Indiana | C | Age: 19.4
13. Aday Mara | UCLA | C | Age: 18.4
14. Tyrese Proctor | Duke | PG | Age: 19.4
15. Ja'Kobe Walter | Baylor | SG | Age: 18.7
16. Jared McCain | Duke | PG | Age: 19.6
17. Elmarko Jackson | Kansas | PG/SG | Age: 19.4
18. Tidjane Salaun | Cholet | PF | Age: 18.1
19. Cody Williams | Colorado | SF | Age: 18.8
20. Terrance Arceneaux | Houston | SG/SF | Age: 19.8
21. Ryan Dunn | Virginia | SF | Age: 20.7
22. Baba Miller | Florida St. | PF | Age: 19.6
23. Bobi Klintman | Cairns Taipans | SF/PF | Age: 20.5
24. Freddie Dilione | Tennessee | PG | Age: 19.4
25. Juan Nunez | Ratiopharm Ulm | PG | Age: 19.3
26. Nikola Topic | Mega MIS | PG | Age: 18.1
27. Melvin Ajinca | Saint Quentin | SG/SF | Age: 19.2
28. Dillon Mitchell | Texas | SF/PF | Age: 19.9
29. AJ Johnson | Illawarra Hawks | SG | Age: 18.8
30. Ugonna Onyenso | Kentucky | C | Age: 19.0

[CGD]

^
2023 espn mock draft made on oct 4 2022

1. Victor Wembanyama
2. Scoot Henderson
3. Amen Thompson
4. Nick Smith
5. Cameron Whitmore
6. Dereck Lively
7. Keyonte George
8. Ausar Thompson
9. Dillon Mitchell
10. Kel'el Ware
11.Dariq Whitehead
12. Terquavion Smith
13. Cason Wallace
14. Jarace Walker
15. Anthony Black
16. Rayan Rupert
17. Julian Phillips
18. Gradey Dick
19. Brandon Miller
20. GG Jackson
21. Leonard Miller
22. Adem Bona
23. Kyle Filipowski
24. Sidy Cissoko
25. Nikola Durisic
26. Jordan Walsh
27. Chris Livingston
28. J.J. Starling
29.Marcus Sasser
30. Amari Bailey

Interesting that Sidy was #24. Also, wow, Brandon Miller really jumped.

[exstatic]

Interesting that Sidy was #24. Also, wow, Brandon Miller really jumped.

Like he was shot out of a gun…

[mo7888]

Latest espn mock draft has 6 PGs in the top17:
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/38471400/2024-nba-mock-draft-why-alex-sarr-vying-consideration-no-1-pick

#2: Isaiah Collier
#7: Stephon Castle
#10: D.J. Wagner
#14: Tyrese Proctor
#16: Jared McCain
#17: Elmarko Jackson

Of course, I know it's still very early some of theses players will drop/rise/disappear and new ones will appear. Saying that, it's still better to have a PGs heavy draft as starting point than the opposite.

Proctor is the only one I've seen a good bit of, and i like his game alot.

[BacktoBasics]

Collier and Wagner seem the most interesting. The other name on that long list is Ka’el Ware. Interesting big. What happened to that guy. He was kinda boom or bust.

[Mr. Body]

Collier and Wagner seem the most interesting. The other name on that long list is Ka’el Ware. Interesting big. What happened to that guy. He was kinda boom or bust.

Transferred to Indiana.

[MultiTroll]

The 2024 version:So Bruno and all,

When do you think we'll see another late pick become a bona fide All Star for multiple years?

GNob
Parker
Greak Freak
Kwa Leonard
Jokic

[Ariel]

Collier and Wagner seem the most interesting. The other name on that long list is Ka’el Ware. Interesting big. What happened to that guy. He was kinda boom or bust.
Kel'el Ware was called out by his former Oregon coach for his lackadaisical play and that got him in the dog house, he then transferred to Indiana. He's a talented guy, but I'm skeptical of talented guys who just don't care, I don't think that's easy to shrug off.

[John B]

So Bruno and all,

When do you think we'll see another late pick become a bona fide All Star for multiple years?

GNob
Parker
Greak Freak
Kwa Leonard
Jokic

Jimmy Butler, 30th after Spurs 29th pick CoJo. 35th pick Draymond

[MultiTroll]

Butler 30 yes a couple years before Greek Freak.

Apemond Green is a media creation, not a legit star.

[duncan2150]

Latest espn mock draft has 6 PGs in the top17:
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/38471400/2024-nba-mock-draft-why-alex-sarr-vying-consideration-no-1-pick

#2: Isaiah Collier
#7: Stephon Castle
#10: D.J. Wagner
#14: Tyrese Proctor
#16: Jared McCain
#17: Elmarko Jackson

Of course, I know it's still very early some of theses players will drop/rise/disappear and new ones will appear. Saying that, it's still better to have a PGs heavy draft as starting point than the opposite.

For the moment and for the little i saw collier and castle ( really like him ) are the two i like.

[BackHome]

Transferred to Indiana.

That and he had motor issues which definitely wont get you picked up at least in the first round

[Bruno]

After a slow start of the season, Risacher is starting to look good: 24 points in 21 minutes today.
1710724298015494145

[BacktoBasics]

After a slow start of the season, Risacher is starting to look good: 24 points in 21 minutes today.
1710724298015494145

Isn’t he projected to be a late 1st.

[stnick2261]

Isn’t he projected to be a late 1st.

Tankathon has him going 3rd (the top of Tier 2 prospects)

[Bruno]

Isn’t he projected to be a late 1st.

He was #11 in espn mock draft a week ago.

[buttsR4rebounding]

He was #11 in espn mock draft a week ago.

Tankathon has him going 3rd, but they are the highest I've seen.

[Ariel]

Tankathon has him going 3rd (the top of Tier 2 prospects)
Tankathon is a great source for a lot of draft related areas, but their scouting isn't precisely top notch, early on they have a lot of wacky mocks. I wouldn't put too much stock on it.

[stnick2261]

Tankathon is a great source for a lot of draft related areas, but their scouting isn't precisely top notch, early on they have a lot of wacky mocks. I wouldn't put too much stock on it.

Oh, I know... I was just responding to someone who asked if he was expected to be a late 1st.

[Mr. Body]

Ranking any player against other players who haven't even played yet seems kind of pointless at this point.

[Ariel]

Ranking any player against other players who haven't even played yet seems kind of pointless at this point.
There's a lot of uncertainty involved in ranking players this early, but it's done even in high school and it's definitely not without a point. For starters, at the very least it serves as a broad guide on where to look.

[Mr. Body]

There's a lot of uncertainty involved in ranking players this early, but it's done even in high school and it's definitely not without a point. For starters, at the very least it serves as a broad guide on where to look.

No, it's completely pointless and stupid. It's done to keep up a small industry of nonsense to ensure they get paid. The rankings barely make sense partly because none of the scouts actually watch all the players, because they can't, but they sell their guidance because fans don't know to leave well enough alone. There's no point to look at draft prospects until they actually play and play for a while. Why the hell would there be a ranking at this point? They're never even close to where things end up.

[Ariel]

No, it's completely pointless and stupid. It's done to keep up a small industry of nonsense to ensure they get paid. The rankings barely make sense partly because none of the scouts actually watch all the players, because they can't, but they sell their guidance because fans don't know to leave well enough alone. There's no point to look at draft prospects until they actually play and play for a while. Why the hell would there be a ranking at this point? They're never even close to where things end up.
Dude, there are literally thousands of prospects all over the world, you need to prioritize somehow and it's only a starting point. What do you propose, drawing names at random from every breathing human not already drafted?

[Mr. Body]

Dude, there are literally thousands of prospects all over the world, you need to prioritize somehow and it's only a starting point. What do you propose, drawing names at random from every breathing human not already drafted?

I propose not giving a shit or arguing about who has the best rankings in fucking October. Lol, like I said, it's pointless. Go look at all the ESPN or other rankings as players go into college. They're fucking WRONG all the time. We've already discussed how last year's rankings of the 2023 draft at this point were WRONG. And here we have users pissing and moaning about how Tankathon might be wrong right now. Holy shit, most of the players haven't even stepped on a college basketball court yet.

[Mr. Body]

Here is ESPN's high school rankings for 2021.

It's just... straight up garbage. Many of their highly ranked players weren't even good in college. And vanishingly few look to be even respectable as pros. There are some who will be, others they wildly overrated, and other players they missed entirely.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2021/order/true

[SpursBills]

I'm going to jump on the Nikola Topic bandwagon early for one of the spurs' draft picks come June. Currently mocked as high as 15 but not even appearing on most draft boards. Good size, decent athleticism, stylistically similar to manu. Good stats last year, has had 2 pretty insane games this year for being 18 in the adriatic league. He's exactly the type of big combo guard that would fit next to vassell moving forward as a guy who can create, get to the rim, and not get bullied on switches.

[Bruno]

I'm going to jump on the Nikola Topic bandwagon early for one of the spurs' draft picks come June. Currently mocked as high as 15 but not even appearing on most draft boards. Good size, decent athleticism, stylistically similar to manu. Good stats last year, has had 2 pretty insane games this year for being 18 in the adriatic league. He's exactly the type of big combo guard that would fit next to vassell moving forward as a guy who can create, get to the rim, and not get bullied on switches.

I hate the business model of his team (KK Mega Basket). It's a team that is owned by an agent, who is also Topic's agent. This team is mostly a way to showcase his clients and there are so much possible conflicts of interest there.

Saying that, what Topic is doing is indeed very impressive with the usual question mark about how his game with translate in the NBA.

[Ariel]

I propose not giving a shit or arguing about who has the best rankings in fucking October. Lol, like I said, it's pointless. Go look at all the ESPN or other rankings as players go into college. They're fucking WRONG all the time. We've already discussed how last year's rankings of the 2023 draft at this point were WRONG. And here we have users pissing and moaning about how Tankathon might be wrong right now. Holy shit, most of the players haven't even stepped on a college basketball court yet.

Here is ESPN's high school rankings for 2021.

It's just... straight up garbage. Many of their highly ranked players weren't even good in college. And vanishingly few look to be even respectable as pros. There are some who will be, others they wildly overrated, and other players they missed entirely.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2021/order/true

I took a look at every top 15 pick in the last 3 drafts that was a high school senior in the USA the year before, here's the list (in parenthesis the recruiting ranking the previous year):

2023 NBA draft / 2021 ESPN recruiting class
2) Brandon Miller (9)
6) Anthony Black (15)
8) Jarace Walker (10)
9) Taylor Hendricks (59)
10) Cason Wallace (21)
11) Jett Howard (44)
12) Dereck Lively (1)
13) Gradey Dick (14)

2022 NBA draft / 2021 ESPN recruiting class
1) Paolo Banchero (4)
2) Chet Holmgren (1)
3) Jabari Smith (6)
13) Jalen Duren (7)

2021 NBA draft / 2020 ESPN recruiting class
1) Cade Cunningham (2)
2) Jalen Green (1)
3) Evan Mobley (3)
4) Scottie Barnes (5)
5) Jalen Suggs (6)
7) Jonathan Kuminga (4)
10) Ziaire Williams (8)
14) Moses Moody (45)

So while not every highly ranked recruit ends top a high pick, just about every high pick that qualified to be ranked (HS senior the year prior) did so very highly:
* 70% (14/20) were top 10
* 80% (16/20) top 15
* 85% (17/20) top 25
* 95% (19/20) top 50
* 100% (20/20) top 60
In short, if you were a US HS senior who qualified and didn't make the list, your chances of being a high pick the next year are slim to none, making it a necessary (but not sufficient) condition. I'd say this certainly qualifies as an EXCELLENT starting point for scouting US based players, and everyone is free to make their own opinion by watching them play.

So I guess a thank you is in order, I wasn't really aware to what extend that was an accurate starting point, you just made me realize it was much better than I thought
. :bobo

[buttsR4rebounding]

Ariel with the Mr. Body slam!!!!

[Dejounte]

Ariel with the Mr. Body slam!!!!

Yeah, you and anyone who would look at Ariel (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=3526) ‘s post without a second glance would think that. But if you look at it closer, it’s incredibly misleading— especially his summary data. There was absolutely no reason to sum up the count of top 15 drafted one year out of high school across three years. If this was intentional, it proves no point and he needs to do a better job.

The statement, “every high pick qualified to be ranked did highly”, and using the logic that he used is disingenuous as hell. Let me give you an example of what he did.

Example:
For the last three years, I have 10 unique apple trees that grow annually and they’re numbered 1-30 in numerical order.

Trees 1-5 grew apples (5 trees total from the first year)
Trees 10-15 grew apples (6 trees total from the second year)
Trees 20-22 grew apples (3 trees total from the third year)

If we are trying to respond to Mr. Body (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=397) ‘s posts the objective would be to answer the following question: “how many of these apple trees were fruitful on an ANNUAL BASIS (because looking at a count across x years is pointless. You don’t draft players from the years before)?”
instead the answer that Ariel provided was, “how many apple trees were there in total in the past three years?”

Yeah… of course the results would look high, all you did was count the total against your own data. You didn’t even try to look at the average annually.

Mr Body’s premise was that the high school prospects and how they were ranked was being overrated. Except in 2021 (which may be an outlier year), his statement holds true when looking at your data.

the better way to do this, and i’m typing all of this through my phone, would be to do something like this:

In 2023,
Of the high school seniors who were drafted into the top 15 in the NBA: five of them were actually highly touted in high school (top 15 qualifier also) and so using high school rankings would be 33% accurate

in 2022,
Using high school rankings would be 26.7% accurate

in 2021,
using high school rankings would be 46.7% accurate

and then I looked to see if 2021 was an outlier year, so i checked 2020:
there were three top 15 highly touted high school players the year before so using high school rankings would be 20% accurate.

i’m surprised the other data professional on this board scott (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=150) didnt catch this tbh

[scott]

I would argue that “accuracy rates” of 33, 27, 47 and 20% are still quite significant, meaningful and dare I say “good” when you consider the talent pipeline is a funnel that consistently reduces down prospects while the level of available information increases.””

I’m also not entirely sure what the argument is here. Rankings are useful if for nothing else than resource allocation. This even holds true among fans whose opinions are largely inconsequential (it helps guide fans who have limited time available to watch the next generation of stars).

Any projection made while there are still variables yet to be determined is going to be inaccurate, and the level of error will be directly correlated with the degree of uncertainty remaining around those variables. Cam Boozer and Cooper Flagg, for example, may never actually play in the NBA, or may not end up the top prospect when it comes time to draft them. Does that mean there is no value in rating and monitoring them now?

TL;DR: None of our opinions actually matter, so I don’t understand why people get so in a huff about other people having opinions that don’t matter. People are here for entertainment, the Spurs aren’t scouring these boards for their next GM.

[Dejounte]

I’m neither here or there with how the data I provided is used, just pointing out how dangerous and easy it is to mislead a group people when using numbers, long paragraphs, and eloquence as such in the original post by Ariel.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I would argue that “accuracy rates” of 33, 27, 47 and 20% are still quite significant, meaningful and dare I say “good” when you consider the talent pipeline is a funnel that consistently reduces down prospects while the level of available information increases.””

I’m also not entirely sure what the argument is here. Rankings are useful if for nothing else than resource allocation. This even holds true among fans whose opinions are largely inconsequential (it helps guide fans who have limited time available to watch the next generation of stars).

Any projection made while there are still variables yet to be determined is going to be inaccurate, and the level of error will be directly correlated with the degree of uncertainty remaining around those variables. Cam Boozer and Cooper Flagg, for example, may never actually play in the NBA, or may not end up the top prospect when it comes time to draft them. Does that mean there is no value in rating and monitoring them now?

TL;DR: None of our opinions actually matter, so I don’t understand why people get so in a huff about other people having opinions that don’t matter. People are here for entertainment, the Spurs aren’t scouring these boards for their next GM.

But did Flagg or Boozer eat more apples?

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I'm going to jump on the Nikola Topic bandwagon early for one of the spurs' draft picks come June. Currently mocked as high as 15 but not even appearing on most draft boards. Good size, decent athleticism, stylistically similar to manu. Good stats last year, has had 2 pretty insane games this year for being 18 in the adriatic league. He's exactly the type of big combo guard that would fit next to vassell moving forward as a guy who can create, get to the rim, and not get bullied on switches.

I really like what I've seen of Topic. I get young Tony Parker vibes with that amazing speed and quickness.

[JPB]

I mean, ofc it makes sense to talk about next year draft right now. Plenty of time to get familiar or follow a small cast of College and international players who could be drafted, and, for most for them, will. Does anybody decently believe NBA GMs are sitting on their asses until March before deciding who they're gonna scout?

Risacher is already on every NBA team's radar, for himself, and for the Wemby effect. Spurs have been following international youth competition for decades, they didn't wait 2 weeks before the draft to get familiar with Manu. Ofc, that's not an exact science and there's some waste, but that's the game.

[ismael-robert]

Makes sense to talk about it now if u make money off it...otherwise rather be playing the game than talking about something a year away...or a whole list of better more important things

[JPB]

Makes sense to talk about it now if u make money off it...otherwise rather be playing the game than talking about something a year away...or a whole list of better more important things

You sure lose a lot of your precious time coming in that forum and thread saying you're not interested and what people should talk about or not :lol Why are you even here if you have much more important things to do or talk about? I mean besides trying to evangelise everyone and their brother on a BB forum...

But let us know how much money do you make in the threads you're actually interested in posting... if you can't understand that's the whole purporse of a BB fan forum, playing the little GMs or coaches, like any NBA fan board do, many posters actually bringing quality, pertinent content. This is BB, not Rocket Science either, you do'nt need to be a FO guy or player and make money to talk about it.

What do YOU bring here, except ranting and telling everyone what they should do...? Nothing but your negativity. But believe it or not, plenty posters will keep discussing the next draft thoughout the year, and you'll keep reading it.

[SpursBills]

I hate the business model of his team (KK Mega Basket). It's a team that is owned by an agent, who is also Topic's agent. This team is mostly a way to showcase his clients and there are so much possible conflicts of interest there.

Saying that, what Topic is doing is indeed very impressive with the usual question mark about how his game with translate in the NBA.

Thanks for this info, didn't know that about KK Mega Basket, that's very good info and definitely plays a role in evaluation going forward!

I've only seen limited highlights available and am basing some of my evaluation on his prior numbers, but I see a guy who at age 17 averaged per 40 23.5/5/7 on 66/37/85 2P%/3P%/FT% in Serbian KLS (admittedly a weak league).

Comps are pretty limited here, but best one I can find is probably Bogdan Bogdanovich (similar size, similar position) who's had a pretty decent career in the league as a solid to good starter. 17 year old Topic comfortably outplays a 19 year old Bogdan Bogdanovich (16/6/5 on 62/37/60 on identical 3PA, similar A:TO in Serbian KLS/Adriatic league mix for KK Partizan). Based on just his first 2 games he may be taking another jump this year. If the rest of his season with KK Mega is at all similar to his first 2 games, we may have a potential sleeper good starter to borderline all star here, one whose rim pressure and size complements the jump shooting of Vassell.

Spurs are likely building a team with no true point guard with the offense able to move through multiple ball handlers. Thus far Vassell, Sochan, Keldon Johnson, and Collins all have A:TO above 1 and Wemby may be trending that way as he develops. If that were the case, it would decrease the need for a true point guard who is often smaller in favor of a larger combo guard who may not be as easy to hunt in the playoffs.

My reasoning here is similar to what I've seen from Deanondraft in the past, which while certainly imperfect, provides a reasonable starting point for those of us who haven't watched a ton of tape for lesser-known prospects. Just wanted to get this guy on the radar early as a prospect to watch in case he does continue to pop.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Topic looks smaller than 6'6" to my naked eye. He's definitely got an interesting skillset though. Plays a little stiff and is not particularly explosive, but definitely crafty with the ball and has outstanding court vision. I didn't see many highlights of his shooting, but if he can knock enough shots to keep a defense honest, can stay in front of somebody on defense and is actually 6'6", sign me up.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Good scouting video on Nikola Topic.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu8y2KBfIHw

I also really like Melvin Ajinca, who I think will shoot up draft boards as the season goes on. Shooting stroke looks really sweet, and he has real positional size. Doesn't look like elite athleticism, but it seems like plus athleticism even at the NBA level. Could be a really nice starter next to Vessell.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiX1Y3C_3ac


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKPCXkj1pCM

[objective]

A good resource for draft scouting videos is off the market and presumably out of the YouTube game

Adam Spinella, aka Coach Spins, aka the Box and One channel and podcast, regular guest of Sam Vecenie's Game Theory podcast, has been hired to be a scout by the 76ers.

FWIW, He was someone who really loved Sidy Cissoko as an NBA prospect

[BackHome]

I am really interested in seeing how Zvonimir Ivisic a 7'2 Center who is going to play for Kentucky this year plays. He has the size is pretty athletic and weighs around 238 so I think he can hold his own down in the post. Has good hands plays defense is a nice shot blocker, and is not a liability on the perimeter

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I am really interested in seeing how Zvonimir Ivisic a 7'2 Center who is going to play for Kentucky this year plays. He has the size is pretty athletic and weighs around 238 so I think he can hold his own down in the post. Has good hands plays defense is a nice shot blocker, and is not a liability on the perimeter

This draft looks like an all-time draft for Bigs. Sarr, Clingan, and Mara could all be special, special players. Then there's like 3 or 4 other guys who could end up in the first round as well. All have pretty high ceilings if they hit.

[Ignazzz]

Victor is to good for full tank mode

[BackHome]

This team is one injury away from being in lottery mode.

[CGD]

If the TOR pick ends up being in the mid teen, I’d be happy if they go for some center depth. Looks like some good prospects

[exstatic]

https://deanondraft.substack.com/p/how-good-is-nikola-topic

[spurraider21]

This team is one injury away from being in lottery mode.
yeah, mcdermott's been prone to missing time in the last few seasons

[spurraider21]

https://deanondraft.substack.com/p/how-good-is-nikola-topic
plus theres a really good track record for centers named Nikola _o_ic

[exstatic]

plus theres a really good track record for centers named Nikola _o_ic

He's not a center, he's a PG.

[exstatic]

yeah, mcdermott's been prone to missing time in the last few seasons

That would put us in the playoffs.

[R. DeMurre]

I'd say almost every basketball evaluator that I read and respect opens most posts with some version of "it's very early in the process so take this with a grain of salt" when it comes to analyzing 17 & 18 year olds. It's not like the better scouts think they can flawlessly spot an NBA player that early-- they're basketball fanatics talking about basketball because they love it-- isn't that kinda why we're all here? I don't know any big basketball fan that isn't intrigued by an article about a 17/18 year old kid in Serbia or France that's playing impressively and putting up great numbers, even if the sample size is currently small. Don't quite get why this is even remotely controversial.

[Mr. Body]

I'd say almost every basketball evaluator that I read and respect opens most posts with some version of "it's very early in the process so take this with a grain of salt" when it comes to analyzing 17 & 18 year olds. It's not like the better scouts think they can flawlessly spot an NBA player that early-- they're basketball fanatics talking about basketball because they love it-- isn't that kinda why we're all here? I don't know any big basketball fan that isn't intrigued by an article about a 17/18 year old kid in Serbia or France that's playing impressively and putting up great numbers, even if the sample size is currently small. Don't quite get why this is even remotely controversial.

Evaluating players isn't controversial. Ranking them against each other and making mock drafts with them is pointless at best.

[BackHome]

Who is ranking or making mocks in this forum? Like DeMurre said it's about discussing potential players and most of these players have probably been on the Spurs radar for years. I would be shocked if the Spurs scouting department did not all ready have an in depth report on probably 20 to 30 players who could potentially come out in 2024.

I remember early last season people were laughing at people who were talking about drafting Wemby how did that turn out? One thing I like about Spurstalk is that everyone has a certain thing they like to get into- some get into trades, some love talking about the Cap, and some like talking about the Draft.

[SpursBills]

Thanks. I agree with most of his points although I think the sga comparison is way too optimistic. However I would take him right now over every single other point guard prospect (collier, castle, proctor) who is potentially on the board. Ultimately I think he slots in as a long term starter in place of keldon who provides true rom pressure and creation without sacrificing size (same height as keldon)

[BackHome]

Looking at Tankathon and it's early but just putting out names will be interesting to see how things change over the course of a season;

Top Centers:

Donovan Clingan (10) - HT: 7.2 - 265lbs.
Aday Mara (13) - HT: 7'3 -245lbs
Kyle Flipowski (19) - HT: 6'11 - 220lbs
Aaraon Bradshhaw (19) - HT: 7.0 - 215lbs

Top PF:

Alexander Sarr - (5)PF/C - HT: 7'1 - 217lbs
Izan Almanssa (8) - HT: 6'10 - 216lbs
Kwame Evans (24) - HT: 6'9 - 200lbs

Top SF:

Matas Buzelis (1) - HT: 6'11 - 195lbs
Ron Holland (2) - HT: 6'8 - 200lbs
Justin Edwards (3) HT: 6'7 - 180lbs
Zaccharie Risacher (6) HT: 6'9 - 204lbs
Cody Williams (12) - HT: 6'8 - 185lbs

Top SG:

Ja'Kobe Walter (11) - HT: 6'7 - 180lbs
Thierry Darlan (14) - HT:: 6'6 - 189lbs
Trey Alexander (20) - HT 6'4 - 185lbs

Top PG:

Isaiah Collier (4) - HT: 6'4 - 205lbs
Stephon Castle (7) - HT: 6'6 - 190lbs
DJ Wagner (9) - HT: 6'3 - HT: 6'3 - 175lbs
Tyrese Proctor (15) - HT: 6'5 - 175lbs
Elmarko Jackson (17) j- HT: 6'3 - 185lbs

[rascal]

Topic looks smaller than 6'6" to my naked eye. He's definitely got an interesting skillset though. Plays a little stiff and is not particularly explosive, but definitely crafty with the ball and has outstanding court vision. I didn't see many highlights of his shooting, but if he can knock enough shots to keep a defense honest, can stay in front of somebody on defense and is actually 6'6", sign me up.

I like Castle better

[Bruno]

NCAA season has started with a good Isaiah Collier. At that very early stage of the draft process, he seems to be the most interesting player to get for Spurs.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0Q9lVzWAVE

[duncan2150]

NCAA season has started with a good Isaiah Collier. At that very early stage of the draft process, he seems to be the most interesting player to get for Spurs.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0Q9lVzWAVE

Collier looks really inresting, i have him and topic for the moment at the pg position.

About collier my concern could be his lenght, he looks to have a neutral to negative wingspan.

[BacktoBasics]

I love the idea of drafting a PG. The only problem is that most PG's need a couple seasons to develop and the crop of SF's look to be pretty solid out of the gate. I'm more intrigued by the idea of a vet PG but not intrigued by what's potentially available in the offseason.

It will a monumental offseason for the Spurs.

[thiste]

« As of now, I have not yet seen a player in this class with the look of a typical top-three pick in an NBA Draft. I’m not sure I’ve seen anyone in this class who looks like an average top-five selection. »

As expected, this draft looks like one of the poorest ever, just one year after one of the greatest ever.

https://twitter.com/Sam_Vecenie/status/1724022800170774711

[Vince Carter's ankle]

« As of now, I have not yet seen a player in this class with the look of a typical top-three pick in an NBA Draft. I’m not sure I’ve seen anyone in this class who looks like an average top-five selection. »

As expected, this draft looks like one of the poorest ever, just one year after one of the greatest ever.

https://twitter.com/Sam_Vecenie/status/1724022800170774711
what did Brandon Miller, Scoot Henderson, Amen Thompson and Ausar Thompson show to call the 2023 draft class "one of the greatest ever"?

[RC_Drunkford]

what did Brandon Miller, Scoot Henderson, Amen Thompson and Ausar Thompson show to call the 2023 draft class "one of the greatest ever"?

do you have vision issues Ms. Alzheimer?
https://media1.giphy.com/media/ALtzQ6CHfC7vO5nRz7/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47zk7ymncdz8ta113x4tvzh1bevng6 x5bh1dg0ft3a&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

[onechance87]

NCAA season has started with a good Isaiah Collier. At that very early stage of the draft process, he seems to be the most interesting player to get for Spurs.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0Q9lVzWAVE

another scoot it looks like

[Vince Carter's ankle]

do you have vision issues Ms. Alzheimer?
https://media1.giphy.com/media/ALtzQ6CHfC7vO5nRz7/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47zk7ymncdz8ta113x4tvzh1bevng6 x5bh1dg0ft3a&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g
girl, stop it, get some help
maybe then you’ll stop shaking from resentment at your worthlessness

[Bruno]

2023 NBA draft was special with 4 of the 5 top picks not coming from college basketball. This year the pool of players outside college (Alexandre Sarr, Ron Holland, Buzelis, Izan Almansa, Topic, Risacher...) clearly doesn't look as good as last draft.

College basketball is usually the main source of players for the draft but I think it's too soon to judge them. It would be way more accurate to evaluate these players after one or two months of college games than just by extrapolating what they did in high school.

[thiste]

what did Brandon Miller, Scoot Henderson, Amen Thompson and Ausar Thompson show to call the 2023 draft class "one of the greatest ever"?

Wemby's in it. Good enough for me.

[spurraider21]

ausar already looks like a high end defender... just a matter of him being functional offensively

[exstatic]

what did Brandon Miller, Scoot Henderson, Amen Thompson and Ausar Thompson show to call the 2023 draft class "one of the greatest ever"?

And how similar to the actual draft were early mocks? Not very.

Number 6 pick Anthony Black was outside the lottery, and #9 pick Taylor Hendricks wasn’t even considered a one and done, and was in no one’s first round.

[exstatic]

ausar already looks like a high end defender... just a matter of him being functional offensively

He’s worse than Thuybulle, last I checked.

[spurraider21]

He’s worse than Thuybulle, last I checked.
thybulle is 6 years older than him and has played 265 more games than him

[exstatic]

thybulle is 6 years older than him and has played 265 more games than him

He’s worse than Thuybulle as a rookie. Matisse is kind of the gold standard of guys that can’t stay on the floor because of zero offensive threat. If you’re worse than that, it’s a problem.

[spurraider21]

He’s worse than Thuybulle as a rookie. Matisse is kind of the gold standard of guys that can’t stay on the floor because of zero offensive threat. If you’re worse than that, it’s a problem.
hes a worse shooter through 11 games than thybulle was as a rookie but he has found other ways to contribute on offense. just has to get better.

thybulle was a 22 year old rookie who played 4 years of college

[TD 21]

The league and its partners have invested so much into promoting Wembanyama, that the Spurs will probably have lottery luck again.

Granted, this is not a draft projected to have a consensus 1st overall or even necessarily top tier, but still.

[Ditty]

Both Thompson twins are going to be very good. Wish they came out in this years draft.

[Thomas82]

The league and its partners have invested so much into promoting Wembanyama, that the Spurs will probably have lottery luck again.

Granted, this is not a draft projected to have a consensus 1st overall or even necessarily top tier, but still.

To me, that's the silver lining in all of this losing.

[Kevin]

If the lottery were held today the Spurs would have the fourth best odds of winning it.

The Spurs have a 25 game stretch from December 28th to February 12th were they have a lot of winnable games scheduled.

Portland 3
Hornets 2
Wizards 2
Magic 2
Hawks 1
Pistons 1
Grizz 1

Other than this stretch of games the remaining schedule is a slog of mostly good to elite teams in the west. Spurs should be in the running for a top 8 pick.

[onechance87]

is there a pg similar to haliburton....My goodness would love to have a pg like him

[rascal]

The league and its partners have invested so much into promoting Wembanyama, that the Spurs will probably have lottery luck again.

Granted, this is not a draft projected to have a consensus 1st overall or even necessarily top tier, but still.

Still would rather have a top five pick in a weak draft than a mid to late first round pick in a weak draft.

[Splits]

The WhoreNets pick will not convey next year.

the Raps need to suck, finish just under .500 which is on track

[buttsR4rebounding]

The WhoreNets pick will not convey next year.

the Raps need to suck, finish just under .500 which is on track

The Hornets get Bridges back today. That is going to make a huge difference. I bet their record by game 30 is .500 or better.

[tbdog]

Hornets should be better than this. I haven't watched any of their games this season. I think Ball is as good as Young. So I'm not sure if he is mailing it in or just getting his legs back.

[rascal]

Hornets should be better than this. I haven't watched any of their games this season. I think Ball is as good as Young. So I'm not sure if he is mailing it in or just getting his legs back.

Hornets are not good and Ball isn't good enough to carry that team to the playoffs.

[exstatic]

Speaking of Bridges, what happened to Mikal this year? His scoring went down from 26 to 20, and his 3 ball has dropped from .376 to.292.

[BacktoBasics]

Speaking of Bridges, what happened to Mikal this year? His scoring went down from 26 to 20, and his 3 ball has dropped from .376 to.292.

The other Cam has carried or arguably forced himself into a bigger offensive role.

[BackHome]

Dang, after loosing to the Grizz I am thinking we got an excellent chance of getting top 5 pick and maybe even a top 3 pick.

[Splits]

what's the point? 18-20 yo kids can't make a difference until their rookie contract is up and they sure as fuck won't want to be eating burritos much longer than that. this FO has no plan, the Char pick will not convert, and we will blow our load on another Baylor chud like Sochan. It's over.

[Splits]

We had 3 first rounders in 2022 and they all suck. Building through the draft is not the Spurs MO. they are horrible at it.

[Uriel]

Isaiah Collier should be the target if the team continues to perform as poorly as it has this year. If the team finally picks up its play and performs to expectations, it ought be Tyrese Proctor.

[objective]

Latest Game Theory with Sam Vecenie podcast is the first mock draft of the year, going to have to listen to it now

[Bruno]

Spurs pick should be top 6 pick. It will depend on the draft lottery in May.
Raptors are 5-7. They should end up between 7th and 11th in the east. Their pick should be in the 9th to 18th range.
Spurs shouldn't get Hornets pick.

A surprise of college basketball is Carlton Carrington. He is a freshman 6'5" PG who has had a great start of the season with Pittsburgh. They have only played 4 games, so sample size is too small, but he is looking good.

[BackHome]

Yeah, he is on my radar - but crazy he is not even on Tankathon as a top 60 - A couple of other PG are putting up good numbers and will be keeping an eye on;

PG:
Kylan Boswell 6'2 - Arizona - Had a good game against Duke - I like that he seems to have good vision and fights for rebounds - as a Sophomore he is still only 18 years old
Rob Dillingham - 6'3 - Kentucky - Nice numbers want to see how he plays against better competition

Picks 1- 10 - Will still have Isaiah Collier, Stephon Castle, and Nikola Topic

One a side note Turkish Forward - Berke Buyuktuncel has just been cleared to play for UCLA will have to catch his first game

[Mugen]

Deep draft at PG at least. Pretty flat draft overall which is why I'm confused but the "old man is tanking" bullshit :lol

[exstatic]

Deep draft at PG at least. Pretty flat draft overall which is why I'm confused but the "old man is tanking" bullshit :lol

It’s a draft with a BUNCH of PGs at various points in the draft. Isn’t everyone whining about Sochan playing point?

[BackHome]

Pretty good draft I think for PG and Centers the one position probably the weakest is SG..

[Mugen]

It’s a draft with a BUNCH of PGs at various points in the draft. Isn’t everyone whining about Sochan playing point?

Exactly which is why "tanking" for a top 3 pick doesn't make much sense when I don't think there's a lot of difference between picks 1-10 in this draft from a talent perspective :lol

[exstatic]

Exactly which is why "tanking" for a top 3 pick doesn't make much sense when I don't think there's a lot of difference between picks 1-10 in this draft from a talent perspective :lol

Well, not to belabor the obvious, but the PGs in the top 5 would be better than those from 6-10, or 11-15. It’s just a good thing that we should be able to fill a position of need without reaching, wherever we land.

Oh,and even though you can’t see it now, historically, there is a HUGE drop off after pick 5.

[John B]

Echoing Vassell, this team will be a very different team in 35th, 40th, 50th game. I’m sure he is echoing the Coaches as he said that. I’m saying it’s a soft tank and could be a top 10 pick instead of top 5, unless they trade up. Personally I’d prefer a more polished PG besides Wemby, through a trade, and a top 10 PG as understudy.

[RC_Drunkford]

Exactly which is why "tanking" for a top 3 pick doesn't make much sense when I don't think there's a lot of difference between picks 1-10 in this draft from a talent perspective :lol

I don't think Pop thought he'll get another top 5 pick. He really thought this was gonna work

[John B]

I don't think Pop thought he'll get another top 5 pick. He really thought this was gonna work

Not getting a true PG in the off-season and experimenting on Sochan, I’m sure Pop already knew. He didn’t want to get even a George Hill so there is no excuse it would be Sochan at PG this season. Pop is playing chess with 25 moves ahead while a lot of us, including many ST GM’s here, are playing checkers.

[RC_Drunkford]

Not getting a true PG in the off-season and experimenting on Sochan, I’m sure Pop already knew. He didn’t want to get even a George Hill so there is no excuse it would be Sochan at PG this season. Pop is playing chess with 25 moves ahead while a lot of us, including many ST GM’s here, are playing checkers.

that would mean he was lying when he said wins and defense matter. So do you think he was lying?

[BacktoBasics]

Echoing Vassell, this team will be a very different team in 35th, 40th, 50th game. I’m sure he is echoing the Coaches as he said that. I’m saying it’s a soft tank and could be a top 10 pick instead of top 5, unless they trade up. Personally I’d prefer a more polished PG besides Wemby, through a trade, and a top 10 PG as understudy.
This is my preference as well. Veteran pg’s are kind of a commodity these days. With most of the better ones hooking up with legitimate contenders or those getting close.

[John B]

that would mean he was lying when he said wins and defense matter. So do you think he was lying?

I don’t remember Pop saying wins. He’s never like that even during championship years. He would DNP and rest players to prepare for the long haul and the playoffs. Defense yes! And as long as they compete. His answer at a sideline interview when asked how how he prepares for this group, his answer was he could only expect so much from what they could do but as long as they are competing.

[Pauleta14]

Pop clearly emphasized on the need to WIN this season.

Check his pre season interviews

[SpursBills]

There is no stud 2 way wing in this draft (I am not impressed by Holland so far) who can serve as a point of attack defender and primary initiator (apex wing ala Tatum, Jimmy etc.). Short of that, you go for the best primary initiator you can.

Topic gives you size, rim pressure, decent shooting signal, and is probably the best offensive creator in the draft. His negative is that he sucks on defense, dies on every screen, and plays like he doesn't care on the defensive end. As Vassell is already a weak man-to-man defender, you're going to have a bad defensive backcourt necessitating a big wing point of attack defender ala McDaniels/Anunoby. But he has good size so maybe he turns into a passable defender ala Jamal Murray down the road.

Castle gives you elite size, good to great athleticism, and good to great defense. His negative is that he has a questionable jump shot and probably isn't a primary initiator and works best as a secondary initiator, meaning that you're going to have to rely on Wemby to create more offense on his own in addition to his defensive responsibilities.

Don't know enough about Carrington but he has promise. Let's see if his hot start continues.

Not impressed with Collier so far. Seems like he turns it over a ton and excels more in the open court, whereas I'd be looking more for a half court creator.

[rascal]

I like the way UCONN is coached and the way they stress defense.
They were at another level defensivly during the tournament.

So Castle will come into the league as a solid defender and his athleticism gives him ability as a finisher and breaking down a defense to create his own offense.

This is were the Spurs are very weak offensively, they are limited athletically as a team, with a team full of players who have to pull up for jump shots, they take jump shots on fast breaks, because they aren't quick enough to beat their man to the basket and are poor finishers at the rim.

[exstatic]

I like the way UCONN is coached and the way they stress defense.
They were at another level defensivly during the tournament.

So Castle will come into the league as a solid defender and his athleticism gives him ability as a finisher and breaking down a defense to create his own offense.

This is were the Spurs are very weak offensively, they are limited athletically as a team, with a team full of players who have to pull up for jump shots, they take jump shots on fast breaks, because they aren't quick enough to beat their man to the basket and are poor finishers at the rim.

You really need to read and watch more on him. He’s not that guy. He’s much closer to Kyle Anderson than Kyrie Irving, using high level ball handing and great footwork more than quickness.

[rascal]

You really need to read and watch more on him. He’s not that guy. He’s much closer to Kyle Anderson than Kyrie Irving, using high level ball handing and great footwork more than quickness.

You have lousy takes on player evaluations. You like the unathletic types.

[rascal]

You really need to read and watch more on him. He’s not that guy. He’s much closer to Kyle Anderson than Kyrie Irving, using high level ball handing and great footwork more than quickness.

Kyle Anderson was pick 30 and wasn't any good.

[bluebellmaniac]

You have lousy takes on player evaluations. You like the unathletic types.

Might be more accurate to say high BBIQ >> low BBIQ w athleticism.

[rascal]

Might be more accurate to say high BBIQ >> low BBIQ w athleticism.

It's stupid to think because a player has good athleticism then he has to have poor BBIQ. Castle plays for UCONN and they are one of the best coached teams in college basketball. I don't see a player with poor BBIQ running pg for UCONN.
Castle is already projected in the top 5.

[CorrectCrusader]

Hoping Toronto pick conveys so we can get a PG and Center.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Exactly which is why "tanking" for a top 3 pick doesn't make much sense when I don't think there's a lot of difference between picks 1-10 in this draft from a talent perspective :lol
how many ncaa games have you watched this season?

[RC_Drunkford]

I don’t remember Pop saying wins. He’s never like that even during championship years. He would DNP and rest players to prepare for the long haul and the playoffs. Defense yes! And as long as they compete. His answer at a sideline interview when asked how how he prepares for this group, his answer was he could only expect so much from what they could do but as long as they are competing.

you obviously didn't see the interview where he said that this season winning matters for the development and it starts with defense. Both things ain't happening here. So was he lying? I'm directly quoting Pop from media day before the season started.

[exstatic]

Young guys tend to lean into their athleticism, and not worry too much about fundamentals. That penalizes you every time you go up a level, or at the end of your career when your athleticism wanes.

Just look at Scoot. He’s fucking horrible,and some of us saw it coming, because he wasn’t all that in the gleague. Almost no fundamentals, and maybe B+ NBA athleticism.

Oh, and Castle isn’t an elite athlete by NBA standards. He’s not going to break you ankle getting to the rim, but he’ll use good position,smarts, and ball handling to do so. We both like him,but you see him as elite athletically when he isn’t.

Here’s my grid

1. High BBIQ, high athleticism
No brainer, but these guys are usually only available at picks 1-3

2. High BBIQ, mid athleticism
Need these guys for your team

3. Low BBIQ, high athleticism
These guys bust at a really high rate, but NBA GMs love to draft them.

4. Low BBIQ, low athleticism.
No NBA career. Probably not drafted at all.

[R. DeMurre]

it's too early to say definitely, but I'm liking Alex Sarr more and more-- defense + length + evolving offensive game. I'd rather draft a defensive player with length and versatility over a PG, who would need to develop alongside a bunch of young guys who are also developing. Use some draft picks + a player to get a PG who's already got some experience and can lead the offense. Sarr next to Wemby has the potential to have a brilliant defensive (French) synergy. His D reminds me of Jonathan Isaac's, who before all of his injuries was getting praise as a potential future DPOY type.

[exstatic]

it's too early to say definitely, but I'm liking Alex Sarr more and more-- defense + length + evolving offensive game. I'd rather draft a defensive player with length and versatility over a PG, who would need to develop alongside a bunch of young guys who are also developing. Use some draft picks + a player to get a PG who's already got some experience and can lead the offense. Sarr next to Wemby has the potential to have a brilliant defensive (French) synergy. His D reminds me of Jonathan Isaac's, who before all of his injuries was getting praise as a potential future DPOY type.

Any player is going to need development, Sarr included. If we’re going to develop someone, let it be a PG.

[illusioNtEk]

We need a 6'8 wing player with ball handling skills tbh.... make it happen guys

[John B]

you obviously didn't see the interview where he said that this season winning matters for the development and it starts with defense. Both things ain't happening here. So was he lying? I'm directly quoting Pop from media day before the season started.

I’d probably paraphrase that as record wise. Pop knows what he can expect from these guys and it’s not going to amount to a lot of wins, but as long as they are competing. Pop is not dumb. It’s obvious Sochan is not the best option at PG. He could easily get a “George Hill” and easily is a better PG than Sochan and possibly get the Spurs some meaningless Wins. But what does it do towards developing Sochan as a ballhandler/facilitator? You know Pop, having followed the Spurs a long time. I agree with “winning by playing defense” on the emphasis of playing solid defense. But it would be taking out of context saying he cares about “Wins” as record-wise. No he’s not lying, but taking out of context, I guess.

[RC_Drunkford]

I’d probably paraphrase that as record wise. Pop knows what he can expect from these guys and it’s not going to amount to a lot of wins, but as long as they are competing. Pop is not dumb. It’s obvious Sochan is not the best option at PG. He could easily get a “George Hill” and easily is a better PG than Sochan and possibly get the Spurs some meaningless Wins. But what does it do towards developing Sochan as a ballhandler/facilitator? You know Pop, having followed the Spurs a long time. I agree with “winning by playing defense” on the emphasis of playing solid defense. But it would be taking out of context saying he cares about “Wins” as record-wise. No he’s not lying, but taking out of context, I guess.

how are you interpreting an interview that you never watched? :lol

[John B]

We need a 6'8 wing player with ball handling skills tbh.... make it happen guys

Sisocco? :lol I’m sure Pop is salivating using him in the future as another big man who can pass.. and play hardnose defense too.

[John B]

how are you interpreting an interview that you never watched? :lol

Bruh just watching him coach all these 28 years?? You know he’s not about meaningless wins. I don’t have to watch every single interview to know. That’s why we’re Spurs fans vs bandwagon fans. You trust the organization is doing the right thing for the long haul. These guys are playing chess vs other GM’s playing checkers.

[BackHome]

As far as Castle I would agree he is not super athletic he is not going to beat you off the dribble that is just not his game. The thing I like is he has good control he can get to where he wants by keeping his dribble alive and he does can get you points and has good court vision. The only thing is he needs to work on his 3 ball but other then that he is good. Another reason I like his height is if Vassell gets hurt again in the future hopefully he could slide into that position and we won't stumble like we do when he is out for any games.

As Bruno mentioned earlier another guy who fits that would be Carlton Carrington another tall PG - but will see how the season goes. Just for fun I looked at the latest mock drafts and one has us taking Ja'Kobe Walter a SG from Baylor as our first pick - He is probably the best SG by far in this draft and he is legit I think he will have a good career the only bad thing is that he is a black whole on offense he hardly ever gives the ball up. The same mock has us using Raptors pick for SF Cody Williams and intriguing kid who I think has some potential

[exstatic]

As far as Castle I would agree he is not super athletic he is not going to beat you off the dribble that is just not his game. The thing I like is he has good control he can get to where he wants by keeping his dribble alive and he does can get you points and has good court vision. The only thing is he needs to work on his 3 ball but other then that he is good. Another reason I like his height is if Vassell gets hurt again in the future hopefully he could slide into that position and we won't stumble like we do when he is out for any games.

As Bruno mentioned earlier another guy who fits that would be Carlton Carrington another tall PG - but will see how the season goes. Just for fun I looked at the latest mock drafts and one has us taking Ja'Kobe Walter a SG from Baylor as our first pick - He is probably the best SG by far in this draft and he is legit I think he will have a good career the only bad thing is that he is a black whole on offense he hardly ever gives the ball up. The same mock has us using Raptors pick for SF Cody Williams and intriguing kid who I think has some potential

That’s exactly what I took from the Castle profiles. He’s really smart, a plus ball handler, doesn’t get sped up, doesn’t pick up his dribble prematurely. He also plays well without the ball, so if you get his jumper tidied up, he has wing size, so can slide over to the 2/3. The podcast I watched said he was boring in the mold of Cason Wallace, but if you look at what Wallace is doing inOKC, I’ll take a supersize version of that.

[RC_Drunkford]

Bruh just watching him coach all these 28 years?? You know he’s not about meaningless wins. I don’t have to watch every single interview to know. That’s why we’re Spurs fans vs bandwagon fans. You trust the organization is doing the right thing for the long haul. These guys are playing chess vs other GM’s playing checkers.

typical sniffer response. Playing Sochan at PG is chess all of a sudden :lol

[scott]

Young guys tend to lean into their athleticism, and not worry too much about fundamentals. That penalizes you every time you go up a level, or at the end of your career when your athleticism wanes.

Just look at Scoot. He’s fucking horrible,and some of us saw it coming, because he wasn’t all that in the gleague. Almost no fundamentals, and maybe B+ NBA athleticism.

Oh, and Castle isn’t an elite athlete by NBA standards. He’s not going to break you ankle getting to the rim, but he’ll use good position,smarts, and ball handling to do so. We both like him,but you see him as elite athletically when he isn’t.

Here’s my grid

1. High BBIQ, high athleticism
No brainer, but these guys are usually only available at picks 1-3

2. High BBIQ, mid athleticism
Need these guys for your team

3. Low BBIQ, high athleticism
These guys bust at a really high rate, but NBA GMs love to draft them.

4. Low BBIQ, low athleticism.
No NBA career. Probably not drafted at all.

Where does Sochan rank on this 4-box of Excellence?

[Pauleta14]

John B, (I can't reply with quotes)

Ur theory is that Pop PURPOSELY handicaped his team just to help Sochan be a better ball handler/playmaker? Really?!??

Come on... :lol

[Mugen]

Bruh just watching him coach all these 28 years?? You know he’s not about meaningless wins. I don’t have to watch every single interview to know. That’s why we’re Spurs fans vs bandwagon fans. You trust the organization is doing the right thing for the long haul. These guys are playing chess vs other GM’s playing checkers.

This is delusional and hasn't been applicable in years tbh :lol

[Russ]

All of the sudden chronic underachieving Longhorn sophomore Dillon Mitchell is looking kind of interesting.

He's been mocked as a mid-second round pick up to now but he may start to ascend.

He's got all of the physical attributes (size, quickness) but seemed to lack any basketball skills.

That may be changing.

Might be a bargain late first round but, by draft time, he may be even higher.

[exstatic]

All of the sudden chronic underachieving Longhorn sophomore Dillon Mitchell is looking kind of interesting.

He's been mocked as a mid-second round pick up to now but he may start to ascend.

He's got all of the physical attributes (size, quickness) but seemed to lack any basketball skills.

That may be changing.

Might be a bargain late first round but, by draft time, he may be even higher.

I don’t see it. He hasn’t made a 3 in four games, and he’s shooting 60% on FTs. That’s a zero shooting signal for a league that values little else.

[Russ]

I don’t see it. He hasn’t made a 3 in four games, and he’s shooting 60% on FTs. That’s a zero shooting signal for a league that values little else.

If he can just keep his head above water on offense and play some elite hard-nosed defense as a PF, he might be able to help this D-challenged roster.

[BackHome]

I think he is 6’7 so probably a SF he is definitely a Deer kinda guy as far as being very athletic but until he can show improved shooting not sure we will have the time to develop him.

[spursparker9]

https://sports.yahoo.com/2024-nba-mock-draft-2-isaiah-collier-alex-sarr-early-leaders-for-no-1-spot-184157823.html

[Mugen]

I feel bad for any kid that they draft tbh. Can't think of a worse "program" to be drafted into. Any PG they draft is going to be played at the 4. Absolutely criminal what the old man has done to Sochan this year.

[Big Empty]

We’re getting a top 5 pick this year. I dont see us winning more than 15-20 games. God we suck lmao but looking foward to the youtube mock drafts soon.

[rjv]

That’s exactly what I took from the Castle profiles. He’s really smart, a plus ball handler, doesn’t get sped up, doesn’t pick up his dribble prematurely. He also plays well without the ball, so if you get his jumper tidied up, he has wing size, so can slide over to the 2/3. The podcast I watched said he was boring in the mold of Cason Wallace, but if you look at what Wallace is doing inOKC, I’ll take a supersize version of that.


I was so pissed when Cason fell to OKC. also bummed that Castle is injured; it would have been nice to see him against some of the teams that UConn has played lately. what are your thoughts on Topić

[Russ]

Topic? Giddey 2.0?

Smooth and aggressive, a nice combination. Also, good size for a guard. Could be a nice fit for the Spurs' needs.

It'll be interesting to see where he goes in the 1st round -- he's all over the map.

[rjv]

Topic? Giddey 2.0?

Smooth and aggressive, a nice combination. Also, good size for a guard. Could be a nice fit for the Spurs' needs.

It'll be interesting to see where he goes in the 1st round -- he's all over the map.

i haven't had a chance to see him play but I have noticed he seems to be moving up. i see him listed as a lottery pick more frequently now (late lottery). based on what i've read, giddey also seems to come to mind but i'm not basing that on anything i've actually seen.

[SpursBills]

i haven't had a chance to see him play but I have noticed he seems to be moving up. i see him listed as a lottery pick more frequently now (late lottery). based on what i've read, giddey also seems to come to mind but i'm not basing that on anything i've actually seen.

I was high on him a few weeks ago when I first saw his highlights, but the more I see the higher I am on him. I'd take him number one without a second thought at this point. Even watching his bad games, the passing vision pops. His level of self creation and rim pressure with passing vision and size is a very powerful combination and honestly he can prop up an entire offense on his own. He's making better reads than 95% of point guard prospects his age, I think on the order of guys like Giddy or Luka coming out. Drafting him would instantly create easy shots for Wemby and allow him to play to his strengths as a defender while still getting his numbers. Just have to build a defense around Topic (who's probably not going to completely die on a switch given his size) and you're all set.

[exstatic]

I was so pissed when Cason fell to OKC. also bummed that Castle is injured; it would have been nice to see him against some of the teams that UConn has played lately. what are your thoughts on Topić

No defense, so that’s just throwing gasoline on the fire.

[CGD]

Topic? Giddey 2.0?

Smooth and aggressive, a nice combination. Also, good size for a guard. Could be a nice fit for the Spurs' needs.

It'll be interesting to see where he goes in the 1st round -- he's all over the map.

Our Spurs can just make a play for Giddy in a few years?

[J_Paco]

Isaiah Collier, Isaiah Collier, Isaiah Collier........

Then one or two defensive - minded players that can make an instant impact. The Spurs can't afford to draft more players that have 'defensive potential' (Vassell & Sochan), yet are barely average defensively in the NBA.

[Mugen]

No defense, so that’s just throwing gasoline on the fire.

He's got enough size that he wouldn't be a complete liability on defense. Dismissing him for that when he checks off a lot of other boxes is silly tbh. If they land a top 3 pick, i think he's the choice if the draft were tomorrow.

[TD 21]

Collier, Castle and Topic, all look like bad - mediocre shooters in the making and only Collier looks like the explosive, rim pressure type. Maybe Topic in a bullying type way, but none of these archetypes are generally lead creator on a contender type.

That said, I'd imagine they've got Topic in their top 3, with Proctor and Risacher, for all the obvious reasons.

[exstatic]

Isaiah Collier, Isaiah Collier, Isaiah Collier........

Then one or two defensive - minded players that can make an instant impact. The Spurs can't afford to draft more players that have 'defensive potential' (Vassell & Sochan), yet are barely average defensively in the NBA.

Collier has looked awful this year. He might be this year’s Nick Smith Jr., the guy who fails to live up to his HS/AAU hype when he goes up a level of competition.

[J_Paco]

Collier has looked awful this year. He might be this year’s Nick Smith Jr., the guy who fails to live up to his HS/AAU hype when he goes up a level of competition.

Ok, I don't really watch college ball so my thoughts are based on pre-season impressions and draft boards.

If he isn't worth drafting in the top 4 then I understand passing on him in that range, but if he's available in the mid teens, then I would still love him on the Spurs.

D'Aaron Fox and LaMelo Ball both had questions about their shooting at the next - level, yet have developed enough in other areas to garner All-Star berths.

[objective]

He's got enough size that he wouldn't be a complete liability on defense. Dismissing him for that when he checks off a lot of other boxes is silly tbh. If they land a top 3 pick, i think he's the choice if the draft were tomorrow.

Branham is 6-5 with okay length and he gets smoked by everyone.

Anyways, I watched 2 early season game breakdowns of Topic and I didn't see what was so special about him. I think it was a Ben Pfeiffer video.

[Russ]

Collier has looked awful this year. He might be this year’s Nick Smith Jr., the guy who fails to live up to his HS/AAU hype when he goes up a level of competition.

Last week I watched Collier in person -- USC v. UC Irvine.

If I didn't know Collier was a high-end prospect, it might not have occurred to me.

He was the best player on the USC team but . . .

He throws really high velocity passes so his teammates must have their heads on a swivel. Sometimes they didn't, causing turnovers.

More times, however, his quick passes seemed off the mark and uncatchable, seeming to create frustration.

There are things you can notice being at a game that it's harder to see on TV. Collier often went off by himself during timeouts rather than going to the huddle -- he looked frustrated with his teammates or about something anyway. It didn't create a good feeling watching it.

Anyway, USC (then ranked about #17 I think) lost to unranked UCI at home, 70-60.

Collier didn't look that big or explosive -- you can't take much from one game, and he does look like a good player, but I didn't see that much potential greatness in that limited look.

[BackHome]

This draft is probably the first one in a long time where I think most teams will draft for need vs talent as everyone is so close in talent.

One thing it is early as far as how many games teams have played but both SF Holland from G League and Edwards from Kentucky have not looked like top 5 lottery picks right now and Tankathon has them going 1 and 5.

[duncan2150]

Branham is 6-5 with okay length and he gets smoked by everyone.

Anyways, I watched 2 early season game breakdowns of Topic and I didn't see what was so special about him. I think it was a Ben Pfeiffer video.

Topic is special imo, playing at his level with his age is not common. He has a big IQ and a really good offensive game, he's playing in a so-so competition but against grown men.

Not seeing something special in him is strange but i respect the take. As for the D, yes he'll get exposed if does not develop this side of the game.

[onechance87]

Isaiah Collier, Isaiah Collier, Isaiah Collier........

Then one or two defensive - minded players that can make an instant impact. The Spurs can't afford to draft more players that have 'defensive potential' (Vassell & Sochan), yet are barely average defensively in the NBA.

collier is another scoot bro

[SpursBills]

Isaiah Collier, Isaiah Collier, Isaiah Collier........

Then one or two defensive - minded players that can make an instant impact. The Spurs can't afford to draft more players that have 'defensive potential' (Vassell & Sochan), yet are barely average defensively in the NBA.

I'm concerned that he's averaging 0.7 AS:TO as the primary ball handler when 3/4 of his opponents have been Brown, UC Irvine, and CSU-Bakersfield. He gets to the rim a ton but it's most likely because he's physically dominating lesser competition - will be curious to see if his numbers hold up against power 5 schools.

[Big Empty]

If we get a top 5 pick draft best talent not need. We’re dying for a point but dont want to waste a top 5 pick if we can get him later in the draft.

[DesignatedT]

Bub Carrington from Pittsburgh is a name to watch out for. I think the Spurs should look at drafting two guards this draft.

[exstatic]

If we get a top 5 pick draft best talent not need. We’re dying for a point but dont want to waste a top 5 pick if we can get him later in the draft.

You get talent based on when they are drafted, as a rule. If you draft in the top 5, you get a top 5 level PG, which would probably be a good thing. No one is really popping as a #1 or #2 or #3 pick, and if that continues, you absolutely draft a PG based on need.

[R. DeMurre]

If the goal is to draft a point guard, what's the point of the Sochan experiment? It would be admitting that Sochan at the point was never a long term goal.

[rjv]

If the goal is to draft a point guard, what's the point of the Sochan experiment? It would be admitting that Sochan at the point was never a long term goal.


i don't think the spurs have empathically stated that sochan is meant to be the long term project at PG. from what i recall, Pop stated that he was going with the starting five of sochan (PG), vassell (SG), keldon (SF), wemby (PF) and zollins (C) and when asked if this lineup would work he answered that it better or they'd be in trouble. what i got from that was pop saying that these were the best combination that this current roster has to put on the floor at the start of the game. tre may be the better PG than jeremy but, from the defensive side of things, he's limited. so far, even the starting five has been bad but that just points to how bad this roster is. so, yeah, the future starting PG of this team is not currently on this roster.

[Extra Stout]

i don't think the spurs have empathically stated that sochan is meant to be the long term project at PG. from what i recall, Pop stated that he was going with the starting five of sochan (PG), vassell (SG), keldon (SF), wemby (PF) and zollins (C) and when asked if this lineup would work he answered that it better or they'd be in trouble. what i got from that was pop saying that these were the best combination that this current roster has to put on the floor at the start of the game. tre may be the better PG than jeremy but, from the defensive side of things, he's limited. so far, even the starting five has been bad but that just points to how bad this roster is. so, yeah, the future starting PG of this team is not currently on this roster.
Tre lacks size, sure, but the numbers so far show that this is a much better team with him on the floor than not. If you want to make up for however much of a defensive liability he is, then get Keldon Johnson off the floor.

KJ makes more sense on a team that can hide him on defense than on a team where half the players on the roster are traffic cones.

[Russ]

Bub Carrington from Pittsburgh is a name to watch out for. I think the Spurs should look at drafting two guards this draft.

How about Ja'Kobe Walter from Baylor, good sir. He looks quite adequate, perhaps even damn good.

[BackHome]

He I think actually had the potential to be one of the best player in this draft after a few years in the league - He is legit on offense he has great touch and very good footwork was very impressed by his first game. He broke Baylor record I think for most points scored by a rookie that is a pretty good accomplishment. The issue with him right now is that he is a Black Whole on offense he is not averaging 1 assist right now but Baylor is winning so......

[J_Paco]

collier is another scoot bro

We need an explosive, playmaking, shot-creating wing or guard in the worst way. Usually, that comes from guards so obviously I'm looking at Collier as that guy in this draft class. Collier has similar athletic ability of Scoot, yet he"s a good (unless they are BS'ing) 2 or 3 inches taller.


I'm concerned that he's averaging 0.7 AS:TO as the primary ball handler when 3/4 of his opponents have been Brown, UC Irvine, and CSU-Bakersfield. He gets to the rim a ton but it's most likely because he's physically dominating lesser competition - will be curious to see if his numbers hold up against power 5 schools.

If his terrible assist-to-turnover ratio doesn't improve then that'll be really worrisome at the next level, but he also possesses incredible raw physical traits and an explosive first-step.

The concerns about his decision making (or lack there of) and outside shooting are valid, but it's only 4 games into the college season.

[exstatic]

How about Ja'Kobe Walter from Baylor, good sir. He looks quite adequate, perhaps even damn good.

Guys with microscopic assist totals struggle in the league. His USG is 24, he averages 0.3 assists and 1.5 TO. There are regular black holes, created by the death of a star, and then there are the supermassive black holes at the center of every galaxy. He’s a galactic class black hole