2024 NBA Draft Thread

[RC_Drunkford]

America may have it’s problems, but none of them compare to the fundamental disregard for human rights.

I say this, recognizing that there is a faction of the Republican Party for whom this sounds like a wet dream: https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2023/country-chapters/qatar

disregarding the rainbow is not a human rights violation :lol

[The Truth #6]

As for the draft, in light of the confirmation of a very slow process moving forward, if I had to guess , they will probably just pick whoever the best player is, not worrying about fit or need.

I don't see Wright favoring European players as perhaps RC did at times. The classic Brian Wright pick, to me, is Cody Williams. Positional diversity, good family background, young, known for skills over outright athleticism. In fact, I can see them trying to make him a point guard. To me, it all adds up as to their recent tendencies.

[Dejounte]

As for the draft, in light of the confirmation of a very slow process moving forward, if I had to guess , they will probably just pick whoever the best player is, not worrying about fit or need.

I don't see Wright favoring European players as perhaps RC did at times. The classic Brian Wright pick, to me, is Cody Williams. Positional diversity, good family background, young, known for skills over outright athleticism. In fact, I can see them trying to make him a point guard. To me, it all adds up as to their recent tendencies.

I see this too. In fact, I see them trying to mold Dalton Knecht as a PG too.

[The Truth #6]

I see this too. In fact, I see them trying to mold Dalton Knecht as a PG too.

Interesting. I'll have to watch more of Knecht. My guess is he's too old for their preferred profile, but for a possible Toronto pick, you never know.

[exstatic]

Interesting. I'll have to watch more of Knecht. My guess is he's too old for their preferred profile, but for a possible Toronto pick, you never know.

Top 10 is REALLY high to pick a 23 YO on draft night.

[offset formation]

As for the draft, in light of the confirmation of a very slow process moving forward, if I had to guess , they will probably just pick whoever the best player is, not worrying about fit or need.

I don't see Wright favoring European players as perhaps RC did at times. The classic Brian Wright pick, to me, is Cody Williams. Positional diversity, good family background, young, known for skills over outright athleticism. In fact, I can see them trying to make him a point guard. To me, it all adds up as to their recent tendencies.

It's like BW's learned nothing. Taking European players is almost always the better decision especially if they're the same age. American players, notably only 1 yr into college, are having to be taught fundamentals of the game, and that's per Pop. European kids are often times playing grown ass adults and a higher skilled environment and cone out with higher BBIQ almost across the board. At least Knecht will be 23 with loads more experience than Cody Williams by draft day.

I'm seriously concerned Wright is simply over his skiis here.

[offset formation]

Top 10 is REALLY high to pick a 23 YO on draft night.

Ha. See my post above...

TLDR --> Not when those 19 and 20 year old come into the League with zero concept of spacing or help defense, etc

[offset formation]

disregarding the rainbow is not a human rights violation :lol

Far bigger than the rainbow. Workers rights. Women's rights, etc.

[exstatic]

Ha. See my post above...

TLDR --> Not when those 19 and 20 year old come into the League with zero concept of spacing or help defense, etc

A 23 YO is what they are. There won’t be much NBA development or upside. Not saying you shouldn’t pick one, but trade back to do so. He’s rated outside the lottery most places.

[Mr. Body]

I don't think Knecht has any point guard in him whatsoever. He's pure attack and finish.

This year, a 23 year-old in the top 10 isn't going to be a stretch. I also want to emphasize that picking 19 year-olds who won't be able to contribute to wins for years isn't always the best tactic. Back in the day, taking a finished product from college was what you wanted. Now, we're looking at a Cody Williams who may sort of meet the concept of what you eventually want and taking him top five. The problem is that the NBA has cratered its rules so you want two to three skills at a very high level and basically nothing else. Yet you still need well-rounded players who actually know how to play.

Not saying Dalton Knecht is that guy, but Derrick White was that guy. This team badly needs non-Bambi players who have more than a vague idea of what they're doing. Not every draft pick needs to be a homerun swing at a 5% star. Sometimes getting beneficial pieces is the point.

[Dejounte]

Dalton has shown more in that area than Sochan, and they experimented with Sochan.


https://youtu.be/BLf710Xr2fk?feature=shared

From Pop: “but nowadays there is no longer traditional PG or C. Everything is switchable.”

[Mr. Body]

Definitely disagree. Sochan is far, far more of a general playmaker for others than Dalton is. Knecht is more in the Jimmy Butler mode. Can definitely swing the ball and spot advantages on kick-outs, but he's looking to score and that's what he should be doing. Sochan is much closer to Scottie Barnes. Neither player should be running point, anyway, since they can't defend point guards.

[scott]

disregarding the rainbow is not a human rights violation :lol

Yeah, and THAT is totally the extent of Qatar's human right record

[scott]

If Pop and Wright have some vision of the next evolution of basketball that they're going to try and affect via their team building decisions, then it will definitely be a long ride and there are only two possible destinations: glory or complete, abject failure. Buckle up.

[onechance87]

worried about cody williams weak rebounding.Especially with wemby and sochan weak at rebounding as well.All these sf
seem weak at rebouding in this draft.Other then dunn but is a terrible shooter.Which we dont need another
player who cant shoot.

[exstatic]

I don't think Knecht has any point guard in him whatsoever. He's pure attack and finish.

This year, a 23 year-old in the top 10 isn't going to be a stretch. I also want to emphasize that picking 19 year-olds who won't be able to contribute to wins for years isn't always the best tactic. Back in the day, taking a finished product from college was what you wanted. Now, we're looking at a Cody Williams who may sort of meet the concept of what you eventually want and taking him top five. The problem is that the NBA has cratered its rules so you want two to three skills at a very high level and basically nothing else. Yet you still need well-rounded players who actually know how to play.

Not saying Dalton Knecht is that guy, but Derrick White was that guy. This team badly needs non-Bambi players who have more than a vague idea of what they're doing. Not every draft pick needs to be a homerun swing at a 5% star. Sometimes getting beneficial pieces is the point.

Back in the day, the best prospects stayed in college for 2-3 years. Now, they leave after one, verrrry occasionally two. The best prospect pool consists of 19 and 20 year olds. I don’t make the rules,but all 30 NBA clubs understand them.

You’re also not countering my argument by bringing up White. He was drafted #29, not in the top 10. I’d trade back for Knecht,but I wouldn’t take him top 10.

[scott]

Just because NBA teams continue to make the same mistakes over and over again doesn't mean we need to, especially in a low-talent draft like this one. Give me the high floor Derrick White pick over the high ceiling Josh Jackson at #4 or Frank Ktlitkina at #8 ten times out of ten (especially if we have two picks in the top ten).

[Mr. Body]

Back in the day, the best prospects stayed in college for 2-3 years. Now, they leave after one, verrrry occasionally two. The best prospect pool consists of 19 and 20 year olds. I don’t make the rules,but all 30 NBA clubs understand them.

You’re also not countering my argument by bringing up White. He was drafted #29, not in the top 10. I’d trade back for Knecht,but I wouldn’t take him top 10.

NBA teams are drafting players way, way too early. Like I said, the game has devolved into a single play style and they have to teach inexperienced, raw players how to play that style. Most of those players take several years to develop - at the cost of roster spots and money. Many of those players never make it. Drafted players in the past knew how to play multiple styles -- it's 'basketball,' after all -- and were much more ready out of the box. We see the consequence in American players just being absolute shit at doing anything other than spamming their moves over and over.

As for old players, again, this is a bad draft. You may think Dalton Knecht doesn't deserve to be top 10 or even lottery. In this draft he does.

[spurraider21]

Back in the day, the best prospects stayed in college for 2-3 years. Now, they leave after one, verrrry occasionally two. The best prospect pool consists of 19 and 20 year olds. I don’t make the rules,but all 30 NBA clubs understand them.

You’re also not countering my argument by bringing up White. He was drafted #29, not in the top 10. I’d trade back for Knecht,but I wouldn’t take him top 10.
if that draft was re-done white would not go #29

[exstatic]

if that draft was re-done white would not go #29

Ability is only one facet. He’ll be 31 when his second contract is up. That’s fucking ancient to be signing a 3rd deal. Older drafted players have shorter careers, because Father Time is unbeaten.

He would go higher than 29, but doubt anyone uses a lottery pick on him. It’s not like he turned out to be an All Star or an All NBA player. He’s a great connector,but that’s a skill much more useful to contending teams than rebuilding teams.

[spurraider21]

Ability is only one facet. He’ll be 31 when his second contract is up. That’s fucking ancient to be signing a 3rd deal. Older drafted players have shorter careers, because Father Time is unbeaten.

He would go higher than 29, but doubt anyone uses a lottery pick on him. It’s not like he turned out to be an All Star or an All NBA player. He’s a great connector,but that’s a skill much more useful to contending teams than rebuilding teams.
there are 14 lottery picks every year and there are not 15 all star or all nba players getting drafted each year

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, you're hitting on why the draft market is so fucked. Players are reclassifying to get into the draft as fast as they can, barely any of them contribute until near the end of their first contract, and teams are often getting them into a second contract because they are sort of showing something. It's a massive, largely unacknowledged problem. I guess it's great that the players are making bank, but there's a reason the sport was better in previous eras. And, again, reason why a Jason Tatum, maybe the best young American player out there, can do jack shit in the playoffs when he can't spam his regular moves. And why team USA is getting bombed in international tournaments.

Anyway, this team needs floor raisers, which is all this draft has. I don't give a crap that Knecht is 23 if he's better than a guy we draft at 19 who won't be as good as Knecht at 23. It'd be nice to not have to wait four years for weak possibility while the team loses all confidence and heart.

[DesignatedT]

Knecht is going to struggle exponentially against the athleticism of NBA guards/wings. Guy can flat out shoot but I would look elsewhere in the lottery.

[Mr. Body]

worried about cody williams weak rebounding.Especially with wemby and sochan weak at rebounding as well.All these sf
seem weak at rebouding in this draft.Other then dunn but is a terrible shooter.Which we dont need another
player who cant shoot.

Stephon Castle, Ja'Kobe Walter, Reed Sheppard, and even Rob Dillingham gather more rebounds per 36 minutes than Cody Williams. Each of them by 1.5 rebounds or more and Dillingham by .5 rebounds more.

[Mr. Body]

Knecht is going to struggle exponentially against the athleticism of NBA guards/wings. Guy can flat out shoot but I would look elsewhere in the lottery.

Have you seen him play? He has very good athleticism. He has speed, strength, and plays above the rim.

[exstatic]

Have you seen him play? He has very good athleticism. He has speed, strength, and plays above the rim.

NCAA athleticism <> NBA athleticism. The only player in the last 5 drafts or so that I knew wouldn’t struggle with the transition was Obi Toppin. His athleticism just jumped out at you. Unfortunately his basketball skill set didn’t.

[spurraider21]

at the very least Knecht looks like a more explosive athlete than Keldon

but like keldon, he's not great with lateral agility. he's more explosive than keldon vertically and in a straight line. he does seem like he competes more defensively, but guys will still be able to shake him.

the thing is, team defense matters as much if not more than individual iso defense these days, so that comes down to bbiq and effort

[DesignatedT]

I have. I think he's generally a very bad defender and below average on his best day. Saw both Taylor and Radford burst by him on multiple occasions this past weekend. I know he will throw down a big dunk here and there but I think he's going to struggle with NBA athleticism and speed. Max Strus or Tim Hardaway come to mind as comps. I think he could be solid but I would not use a top 10 pick on the guy.

[RC_Drunkford]

why do people want to draft a 23-year old role player? We gotta go for the high ceiling guys

[Mr. Body]

NCAA athleticism <> NBA athleticism. The only player in the last 5 drafts or so that I knew wouldn’t struggle with the transition was Obi Toppin. His athleticism just jumped out at you. Unfortunately his basketball skill set didn’t.

I'm pretty sure you haven't seen him play.

[Mr. Body]

Dalton Knecht plays basically like Jimmy Butler. Not saying they're the same, of course, but it's the same athleticism, the same ability to bully players with strength. I get it - he's white. You don't think white guys can be athletic.

[DesignatedT]

I've watched him a few times but the most recent was Saturday and he did no bullying whatsoever of Washington at A&M who is a supreme athlete.

[Mr. Body]

I've watched him a few times but the most recent was Saturday and he did no bullying whatsoever of Washington at A&M who is a supreme athlete.

A&M gave Tennesse fits with incredible defense that was very physical. Great game by them. What did Dalton do? Drop 6-11 from three.

[spurraider21]

why do people want to draft a 23-year old role player? We gotta go for the high ceiling guys
depends where we're picking. if toronto hands us an additional top 10 pick he probably wouldnt be my top choice. but he looks like a guy ready to hit the ground running as an nba caliber player. the spurs roster is pretty dead when it comes to actual, realized, nba talent. not every pick has to be a home run swing. if its a late lottery pick you could do worse. he's a capable/aggressive shooter with a quick release and the ability to punish closeouts in ways that someone like champagnie cant

he also is a really good movement player with timely cuts and whatnot. not something many guys on our roster do well at all.

yeah he'd be an old rookie but do we really want every draft pick to be somebody that requires 1-2 years of gleague or minimal playing time before being able to seriously contribute?

[Mr. Body]

why do people want to draft a 23-year old role player? We gotta go for the high ceiling guys

Who the fuck are the high ceiling guys in this draft? It's all medium ceiling guys.

[DesignatedT]

Yes, I agree that he guy can shoot the lights out. It's everything else that I am not overly impressed with. I like the guy but not for the Spurs to use 3 or 7 on him.

[pad300]

Who the fuck are the high ceiling guys in this draft? It's all medium ceiling guys.

The internationals...

[Ariel]

why do people want to draft a 23-year old role player? We gotta go for the high ceiling guys
Because a 70% chance at a high level role player beats a 1% chance at a star. Case in point, you can't generalize without quantifying how likely each outcome is. That's how you end up with colossal draft blunders.

[LeBowen]

Also, not every player has the same development trajectory.
We should know that better than any other franchise.

[scott]

Because a 70% chance at a high level role player beats a 1% chance at a star. Case in point, you can't generalize without quantifying how likely each outcome is. That's how you end up with colossal draft blunders.

Yes and especially with a second pick in this particular draft and especially if the pick falls in the 8-14 range, I would much rather prefer a high floor contributor (Knecht, Filipowski) than another Primo-like project.

[Pauleta14]

Qatar is a US ally. The CIA is MUCH more inclined to cover up the human right's abuses of its allies than to expose them. Don't accuse people to not knowing the US's history if you don't understand it yourself.

sure 😂 CIA has a track record of respecting human rights!!

They just “cover up their allies” :lol

Hey I’m not judging, France is currently supporting a Coup in Sénégal without anybody saying anything …

point is we (occidental powers) are far worse. Hence the irony

[scott]

sure  CIA has a track record of respecting human rights!!

They just “cover up their allies” :lol

Hey I’m not judging, France is currently supporting a Coup in Sénégal without anybody saying anything …

point is we (occidental powers) are far worse. Hence the irony

If it makes you feel any better, I don't want the Governments of the United States or France investing in the Spurs either. What human right's violations any other countries may or may not have transgressed is irrelevant to whether I want Qatar as an investor in my hometown team.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/Sam_Vecenie/status/1757159982620176626

[Pauleta14]

If it makes you feel any better, I don't want the Governments of the United States or France investing in the Spurs either. What human right's violations any other countries may or may not have transgressed is irrelevant to whether I want Qatar as an investor in my hometown team.

It’s never been about making me feel better nor lobbying for Qatar… :lol

The point has always been the irony, hypocrisy and overall lack of awareness of most on the topic. Lack of education for some but the scary part is most are educated but still unaware.

[The Truth #6]

Late lottery pick on Knecht sounds ok to me. Way better than Champagne if I had to guess. Our pick will be high upside. But we need to raise the talent floor, too. He can shoot but more of a scorer. Defense is probably better than Topic, for example. But I'm still watching and learning these players.

It's interesting that Risacher is a top 2 prospect in part because of his floor. That's an indictment on this draft, when typically no one cares about floor in the top of the lottery.

[Chinook]

sure  CIA has a track record of respecting human rights!!

They just “cover up their allies” :lol

Hey I’m not judging, France is currently supporting a Coup in Sénégal without anybody saying anything …

point is we (occidental powers) are far worse. Hence the irony

So it's clear you aren't really able to read posts and understand them.

1) The CIA absolutely does shitty things

2) One of the shittiest things it does is prompt up regimes around the world that abuse their subjects in the name "national security"

3) Qatar is one of those regimes

So thinking you can defend Qatar by saying "the CIA sucks", it completely misses the point. It's not just that both of those things are true -- it's that the CIA being shitty is one of main reasons why Qatar is able to be such a prosperous nations despite how backwards it is in terms of human right's violations. We (meaning "Western" randos") aren't critical of Qatar because the CIA is telling us to. We're less critical than we should be because the CIA and US government has been telling us for years that Qatar is our friend.

If you wanna talk about how we view Iran being a CIA thing, go ahead. But that shit doesn't work with Qatar, Saudi Arabia or Israel.

[Pauleta14]

You haven't read me properly if you think I'm "defendng" Qatar...

Just pointing your hypocrisy and the overall irony

[Mr. Body]

You haven't read me properly if you think I'm "defendng" Qatar...

Just pointing your hypocrisy and the overall irony

You came in hard defending Qatar you dumb authoritarian weirdo.

[Ariel]

OK guys, can we please back off the Qatar stufft? Let's go back to the draft, plenty of material to shit over one another there.

[RC_Drunkford]

depends where we're picking. if toronto hands us an additional top 10 pick he probably wouldnt be my top choice. but he looks like a guy ready to hit the ground running as an nba caliber player. the spurs roster is pretty dead when it comes to actual, realized, nba talent. not every pick has to be a home run swing. if its a late lottery pick you could do worse. he's a capable/aggressive shooter with a quick release and the ability to punish closeouts in ways that someone like champagnie cant

he also is a really good movement player with timely cuts and whatnot. not something many guys on our roster do well at all.

yeah he'd be an old rookie but do we really want every draft pick to be somebody that requires 1-2 years of gleague or minimal playing time before being able to seriously contribute?

yeah but that's not where our pick will land. If the Toronto pick even converts it'll likely be 7 or 8, definitely top 10. I'd agree taking him outside of that range, but I think the top 8 in this draft has a higher ceiling than what Knecht currently is. He's good though, complete game and not a lot of weaknesses.

[couchman]

Knecht reminds me of a poor man’s Devin Booker.
Very similar size and build, similar offensive game, similar ability to get unconsciously hot.

It is notable that Knecht plays guard in college at 6’6” and not SF.
I think he will be a solid rotation player at the NBA level and will occasionally drop 30 on someone.

[manufan10]

1757403724815720826

[mo7888]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2024-nba-mock-draft-french-star-alex-sarr-goes-no-1-kentucky-has-two-players-in-top-four/amp/

For entertainment purposes- This mock has us taking Reed Shephard at #2 overall

[Ariel]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2024-nba-mock-draft-french-star-alex-sarr-goes-no-1-kentucky-has-two-players-in-top-four/amp/

For entertainment purposes- This mock has us taking Reed Shephard at #2 overall
Sarr to Detroit? Dililngham to Charlotte? Topic to Atlanta? Hmmmm.... don't really dig it.

[mo7888]

Sarr to Detroit? Dililngham to Charlotte? Topic to Atlanta? Hmmmm.... don't really dig it.

Yep, it's an antithetical mock to me. I don't see a world with Shephard in the top 2, Topic falling to 8, or Buzelis dropping to the teens...

[Russ]

Yep, it's an antithetical mock to me. I don't see a world with Shephard in the top 2, Topic falling to 8, or Buzelis dropping to the teens...

You should see NBAdraft.net -- they have Topic at 20.

[Ariel]

You should see NBAdraft.net -- they have Topic at 20.
You really need to remove NBAdraft.net from your bookmarks.

[Thomas82]

You should see NBAdraft.net -- they have Topic at 20.

Tankathon had us drafting him at 1 when I did the simulation.

[Mr. Body]

Of mocks, Givony's is what I like most right now, although I think Cody and Salaun are some spots too high.

https://www.espn.com/nba/draft/bestavailable

[JPB]

Of mocks, Givony's is what I like most right now, although I think Cody and Salaun are some spots too high.

https://www.espn.com/nba/draft/bestavailable

Givony knows his thing. And I mean from all these mock drafts, he's probably the only guy who follow leagues throughout the world and actually go regularly watch the young players he's talking about wherever the play, specially euros. Dude put on the miles.... Now the downside with Givony is that he may be overpimping some of these kids sometimes (safe perhaps of the top 6-7 prospects) to get/stay in good terms with agents and keep on getting information from them in the short and long term during career. So I would really take his projections with interest, particularly the lottery, but with a grain of salt some of his tweets where he pimps under the radar prospects.

[Mr. Body]

He's also now an ESPN guy, so his honesty has to be questioned for that reason as well.

[SOMA Spur]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2024-nba-mock-draft-french-star-alex-sarr-goes-no-1-kentucky-has-two-players-in-top-four/amp/

For entertainment purposes- This mock has us taking Reed Shephard at #2 overall

Reed over Risacher, not gonna happen. But this mock confirms a trend I'm seeing - Knecht in the top ten. This guy has him 7, Vicenie's buddy had him at 7 in their latest pod, one of the No Ceilings guys had him at 9 in their latest pod (No Ceilings average is 10). Givony has him lower (18) but even on his board, Knecht rose 6 spots this month. So us picking him up at 7-10 is not much of a stretch. My hope is that we land Risacher and Dilly with the #2 and #7 picks. But if we're staring at some later picks like #6 and #9, I could go Dilly at #6 and Knecht at #9.

[mo7888]

Reed over Risacher, not gonna happen. But this mock confirms a trend I'm seeing - Knecht in the top ten. This guy has him 7, Vicenie's buddy had him at 7 in their latest pod, one of the No Ceilings guys had him at 9 in their latest pod (No Ceilings average is 10). Givony has him lower (18) but even on his board, Knecht rose 6 spots this month. So us picking him up at 7-10 is not much of a stretch. My hope is that we land Risacher and Dilly with the #2 and #7 picks. But if we're staring at some later picks like #6 and #9, I could go Dilly at #6 and Knecht at #9.

He is moving up. I think it's a byproduct of the top guys having a higher bust potential than usual so teams are considering a higher floor-lower upside known quantity more than usual. I expect that to change and for Knecht to drop a little by the draft after teams get more comfortable with the young guys floors. A lot of mocks are based on what guys hear from league execs/sources more than their own evaluations (and then lesser mocks copy them, so i think that's what were seeing now.

[onechance87]

Havent seen risacher to much.But would yall say hes a better defender then champganie.

[mo7888]

Havent seen risacher to much.But would yall say hes a better defender then champganie.

Yup

[The Truth #6]

He is moving up. I think it's a byproduct of the top guys having a higher bust potential than usual so teams are considering a higher floor-lower upside known quantity more than usual. I expect that to change and for Knecht to drop a little by the draft after teams get more comfortable with the young guys floors. A lot of mocks are based on what guys hear from league execs/sources more than their own evaluations (and then lesser mocks copy them, so i think that's what were seeing now.

Makes sense. I have to imagine that the college senior archetype has a little more validity after Bane and Jacquez.

This draft has a bunch of upperclassmen getting attention due to the high bust potential of the blue chippers.

Any of these you are intrigued by? Off the top of my head I can think of: Knecht, AJ Maxey, Zach Eddy, as well as many guys I'm not as familiar with--Wooga Poplar (?), Kevin McCullar, Tristan da Silva y mas.

[mo7888]

Makes sense. I have to imagine that the college senior archetype has a little more validity after Bane and Jacquez.

This draft has a bunch of upperclassmen getting attention due to the high bust potential of the blue chippers.

Any of these you are intrigued by? Off the top of my head I can think of: Knecht, AJ Maxey, Zach Eddy, as well as many guys I'm not as familiar with--Wooga Poplar (?), Kevin McCullar, Tristan da Silva y mas.

A few, but none enough to take as high as a projected Toronto pick. I do like Knecht, McCullar, and Edey. I just like them around #15-#25 range. Da Silva in the late 20's..

[buttsR4rebounding]

Makes sense. I have to imagine that the college senior archetype has a little more validity after Bane and Jacquez.

This draft has a bunch of upperclassmen getting attention due to the high bust potential of the blue chippers.

Any of these you are intrigued by? Off the top of my head I can think of: Knecht, AJ Maxey, Zach Eddy, as well as many guys I'm not as familiar with--Wooga Poplar (?), Kevin McCullar, Tristan da Silva y mas.

Kansas has been shit since McCullar has been out.

[alfahdlan]

Update: Reed 59 steals in 24 games. Race to 80, 7 games to go.

[alfahdlan]

Yep, it's an antithetical mock to me. I don't see a world with Shephard in the top 2, Topic falling to 8, or Buzelis dropping to the teens...

The argument coz “Reed was the only college basketball player who had recorded 90+ assists, made 50+ 3-pointers, created 50+ plus steals and committed less than 40 turnovers on the season”. Those were tangible stats. Show other stats otherwise if you are not amenable. Or what is the antithesis of this argument?

[Mr. Body]

Kentucky bounces back to beat Ole Miss after a three game skid at home. I'll take as mild faith that the top three will be Sarr-Risacher-Topic in some order.

The question then is who do I have as number four and I have Dillingham firmly right now. The team was sloppy and he got yanked early on (wasn't the only culprit). Second half reaffirmed the spot. He is working harder on defense, but it's just his offensive capability. Needs no time to get on a heater, uses his handles to create space, very active in trying to move the ball around. In this draft, he's simply a superior offensive weapon and with his quickness, speed, instinct and touch a potentially lethal one.

Now, no idea whether he fits our team or the Spurs would look at him (dubious).

As for Reed Sheppard, I continue to be unsure. His hands are absolutely elite. He ballhawks and overhelps on defense looking for swipes, losing his man, but that's probably schematic (allowed by coach). He is an excellent shooter. He just... that's it. When Dillingham is in, Dillingham gets the offense going. His man-to-man defense isn't great. Right now I don't see the heavy initiator you'd want for his purported position.

I'm not sure where I put Sheppard right now. Maybe 8-10?

[alfahdlan]

https://www.espn.ph/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39471627/dick-vitale-super-six-best-men-college-basketball-point-guards-2023-24

ESPN Dick Vitale choses his 6 best college point guards: Reed Sheppard in it. The only freshman.

[onechance87]

Kentucky bounces back to beat Ole Miss after a three game skid at home. I'll take as mild faith that the top three will be Sarr-Risacher-Topic in some order.

The question then is who do I have as number four and I have Dillingham firmly right now. The team was sloppy and he got yanked early on (wasn't the only culprit). Second half reaffirmed the spot. He is working harder on defense, but it's just his offensive capability. Needs no time to get on a heater, uses his handles to create space, very active in trying to move the ball around. In this draft, he's simply a superior offensive weapon and with his quickness, speed, instinct and touch a potentially lethal one.

Now, no idea whether he fits our team or the Spurs would look at him (dubious).

As for Reed Sheppard, I continue to be unsure. His hands are absolutely elite. He ballhawks and overhelps on defense looking for swipes, losing his man, but that's probably schematic (allowed by coach). He is an excellent shooter. He just... that's it. When Dillingham is in, Dillingham gets the offense going. His man-to-man defense isn't great. Right now I don't see the heavy initiator you'd want for his purported position.

I'm not sure where I put Sheppard right now. Maybe 8-10?

wonder why dilly not starting or getting less min.Gotta be his d pretty bad

[JPB]

This draft may lacks talent but I'm really not sure many teams would risk a top 3 pick on Topic... The probem with Topic is the same as with any euro white, skinny small PG in history... Will his game translate to the pace and physicality of the NBA? Will what works for him in Europe do it in the US? I'm' thinking guys like Navarro or Calderon here wo were dominant already as tennagers in Europe but never really made in the NBA.... Navarro was TP's biggest rival in the youth national teams competitions, and considered then as the best player, but TP ended up a HOFer thanks his incredible speed (notably).

Rubio made it but his court vision and passing skills were elite and I believe he's taller than Topic (I could be wrong). Micic was considered the best PG in Europe and he hasn't be more than a 3rd string, garbage time dude in the NBA so far, and that's in his prime. Floor might be pretty low with Topic and I'm passing if I'm the spurs who need more guarantees.

[Mr. Body]

wonder why dilly not starting or getting less min.Gotta be his d pretty bad

Neither Sheppard nor Dillingham start.

[Mr. Body]

This draft may lacks talent but I'm really not sure many teams would risk a top 3 pick on Topic... The probem with Topic is the same as with any euro white, skinny small PG in history... Will his game translate to the pace and physicality of the NBA? Will what works for him in Europe do it in the US? I'm' thinking guys like Navarro or Calderon here wo were dominant already as tennagers in Europe but never really made in the NBA.... Navarro was TP's biggest rival in the youth national teams competitions, and considered then as the best player, but TP ended up a HOFer thanks his incredible speed (notably).

Rubio made it but his court vision and passing skills were elite and I believe he's taller than Topic (I could be wrong). Micic was considered the best PG in Europe and he hasn't be more than a 3rd string, garbage time dude in the NBA so far, and that's in his prime. Floor might be pretty low with Topic and I'm passing if I'm the spurs who need more guarantees.

Topic is 6'6".

[JPB]

Topic is 6'6".

I'll personnally wait the combine measurements, because the numbers I'm reading about him (height, wingspan...) sure don't pass the eye test. I have hard time believing he's as tall as Michael Jordan. Some sites have Topic at 6'5 and the 6'6 mark you can mostly find is supposed to be without shoes, meaning he would be 1 or 2 inches taller at let's say 6'7 or 8? He really doesn't look that big to me in front of the bigs he plays in Europe. More like 6'4, 6'5 max, same for the 7 foot wingspan. And that's kinda the same for every prospects these days, every guard is 6'8 with a 7 foot wingspan nowadays.

But then again, I could be wrong and camera can be deceptive.

[mo7888]

The argument coz “Reed was the only college basketball player who had recorded 90+ assists, made 50+ 3-pointers, created 50+ plus steals and committed less than 40 turnovers on the season”. Those were tangible stats. Show other stats otherwise if you are not amenable. Or what is the antithesis of this argument?

It's antithetical to think that he's going top 2 in a draft with Sarr, Risacher, Williams, JaKobe, Matas, and Topic.

[mo7888]

This draft may lacks talent but I'm really not sure many teams would risk a top 3 pick on Topic... The probem with Topic is the same as with any euro white, skinny small PG in history... Will his game translate to the pace and physicality of the NBA? Will what works for him in Europe do it in the US? I'm' thinking guys like Navarro or Calderon here wo were dominant already as tennagers in Europe but never really made in the NBA.... Navarro was TP's biggest rival in the youth national teams competitions, and considered then as the best player, but TP ended up a HOFer thanks his incredible speed (notably).

Rubio made it but his court vision and passing skills were elite and I believe he's taller than Topic (I could be wrong). Micic was considered the best PG in Europe and he hasn't be more than a 3rd string, garbage time dude in the NBA so far, and that's in his prime. Floor might be pretty low with Topic and I'm passing if I'm the spurs who need more guarantees.

You think Topic is small for a PG?

[exstatic]

wonder why dilly not starting or getting less min.Gotta be his d pretty bad

UK recruits 3-4 absolute blue chip guards every year, and someone has to come off the bench. Devin Booker started ZERO games at UK, and averaged 10.0 points. Let that sink in.

[Kurgan]

I'll personnally wait the combine measurements, because the numbers I'm reading about him (height, wingspan...) sure don't pass the eye test. I have hard time believing he's as tall as Michael Jordan. Some sites have Topic at 6'5 and the 6'6 mark you can mostly find is supposed to be without shoes, meaning he would be 1 or 2 inches taller at let's say 6'9? He really doesn't look that big to me in front of the bigs he plays in Europe. More like 6'4, 6'5 max, same for the 7 foot wingspan. And that's kinda the same for every prospects these days, every guard is 6'8 with a 7 foot wingspan nowadays.

But then again, I could be wrong and camera can be deceptive.

He's got that giraffe neck so his functional height might be closer to 6'4''

[Russ]

Topic is 6'6".

Also according to Tankathon he's only 18.5 years old (only one 1st Round pick is younger, the 30th pick).

He might still grow a bit.

[exstatic]

I'll personnally wait the combine measurements, because the numbers I'm reading about him (height, wingspan...) sure don't pass the eye test. I have hard time believing he's as tall as Michael Jordan. Some sites have Topic at 6'5 and the 6'6 mark you can mostly find is supposed to be without shoes, meaning he would be 1 or 2 inches taller at let's say 6'9? He really doesn't look that big to me in front of the bigs he plays in Europe. More like 6'4, 6'5 max, same for the 7 foot wingspan. And that's kinda the same for every prospects these days, every guard is 6'8 with a 7 foot wingspan nowadays.

But then again, I could be wrong and camera can be deceptive.

Every other team in Europe has a 7’+ center. Giants still roam the paint. They haven’t been rendered obsolete over there. You’re used to seeing smaller centers in the NBA these days.

[R. DeMurre]

The exact numbers can be questioned (reported wingspan and standing reach don't seem to line up) along with any other possible issues (long neck, low shoulders, wide back), but in no assessment can Topic be called a small PG.

[The Truth #6]

Speaking of wingspans, Knecht looks to have a long wingspan, possibly 7' from uninformed eye balling. For a pick around 11-15, I'm still intrigued by him, in part because I have low confidence in the FO getting a SF in the offseason, and because this guy has worked his way up from small college early on, had a late growth spurt which help explains his more humble early basketball experience. Anyway. In the low chance the Toronto pick is late lottery, that's where I'm at, unless Dillingham fell to us with the theoretical TOR pick.

Background tidbits: was 5'8 as a sophomore in HS, then grew to 6'3 his senior year, then grew another three inches in college. More interestingly, he played point guard growing up before college. I can't speak to his playmaking now, but it's an extra wrinkle.

[baseline bum]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2024-nba-mock-draft-french-star-alex-sarr-goes-no-1-kentucky-has-two-players-in-top-four/amp/

For entertainment purposes- This mock has us taking Reed Shephard at #2 overall

I like Sheppard, but he's either a worst case pick if the Spurs fall to #6 or #7 or a (nearly) best case pick with the Raptors' selection if it conveys.

[JPB]

Not saying Topic is small for a guard, guys. Just questioning his "official" measurements.... Looks more 6'5 max. to me, I don't know, you tell me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNnzHw2YRzU

[TheChillFactor]

We’re talking about a difference of one inch that we are assessing from video clips. One inch.

[Kevin]

Matas is shooting 38.4% from 3 over his last 10 games. Perfect fit next to Trae Vessel and Wemby. Big wing with developing outside shot.

[rascal]

Looking ahead to the 2025 draft top prospects it doesn't have many pgs and has many wings so better to get the best pg in this year's draft.

[spurraider21]

if Topic is 6'6 its because he has a very long neck/head. more curious to know what his standing reach and wingspan are

[JPB]

We’re talking about a difference of one inch that we are assessing from video clips. One inch.

2 inches actually since he's supposed to be 6'7 with sneakers. And I said 6'5 max, could be 6'4 without skneakers...And that's not just his height, I have my doubts about his supposedly 7 foot wingspan.

[JPB]

if Topic is 6'6 its because he has a very long neck/head. more curious to know what his standing reach and wingspan are


He could indeed be 6'6 but with the body, reach and wingspan of a 6'4 guard. Doesn't seem to have big lift, nor big reach actually. A 7 foot wingspan player is much more disruptive on defense too (blocks and steals), not to mention rebounds.

Reason why I'll wait the combine for NBA measurements.;. We'll see. But I don't want the kid anyway...

[exstatic]

He could indeed be 6'6 but with the body, reach and wingspan of a 6'4 guard. Doesn't seem to have big lift, nor big reach actually. A 7 foot wingspan player is much more disruptive on defense too (blocks and steals), not to mention rebounds.

Reason why I'll wait the combine for NBA measurements.;. We'll see. But I don't want the kid anyway...

The BEST thing about the new CBA is that all players must be measured at the combine. No more opting out, hiding one’s true dimensions.

I think a lot of the measurements criticisms boil down to what is bolded in the quoted post.

[Ariel]

Matas is shooting 38.4% from 3 over his last 10 games. Perfect fit next to Trae Vessel and Wemby. Big wing with developing outside shot.
He's probably my upside pick. The kid is really talented, but his shooting slump put into question what his real shooting ability is. If he can convince the FO that he's better than the season averages show, there's definitely a lot to like there. He also seems like a Washington target.

[The Truth #6]

Not likely we would draft this kid, but Kyshawn George has a profile that screams "Brian Wright type player"

Freshman at Miami. 19 years old, the age we have been prioritizing, so to speak. High bbiq from playing professionally in France. Several unexpected growth spurts, so now is 6'8 though his teammates think 6'9. Played point guard until recently. Great handle and vision. Very solid shooting splits. Multi positional. Very mature for his age as a person and player. If they're looking for another tall PG experiment, this seem like it.

If we don't get the Toronto pick, and being a "weak draft", I'd consider trading up with second round picks to get into the 20s to consider this guy. Just a thought.

Also, average athleticism and smiles very well, more catnip for Wright.

Having said all that, if we somehow ended up with him, I'll prepare for him to be a serial killer or whatever.

[Ariel]

He could indeed be 6'6 but with the body, reach and wingspan of a 6'4 guard. Doesn't seem to have big lift, nor big reach actually. A 7 foot wingspan player is much more disruptive on defense too (blocks and steals), not to mention rebounds.

Reason why I'll wait the combine for NBA measurements.;. We'll see. But I don't want the kid anyway...
His legs look kind of short, he's got a weird body type. I agree he doesn't look 6'6" to me, but we'll see.

[LeBowen]

Who cares, he's got plenty of size for a point guard.
It's about if he's good enough and worth the pick and that's about his ability/potential, not size.

[Ariel]

Looking ahead to the 2025 draft top prospects it doesn't have many pgs and has many wings so better to get the best pg in this year's draft.
Spurs aren't set at any position and should draft whomever they think is best available, unless they're really picking between same tier. Passing on a better talent because of some guys on your current roster that may not be there next year doesn't sound like the best use of the pick. You can always sign a PG in free agency or trade for one.

[Mr. Body]

Not likely we would draft this kid, but Kyshawn George has a profile that screams "Brian Wright type player"

Freshman at Miami. 19 years old, the age we have been prioritizing, so to speak. High bbiq from playing professionally in France. Several unexpected growth spurts, so now is 6'8 though his teammates think 6'9. Played point guard until recently. Great handle and vision. Very solid shooting splits. Multi positional. Very mature for his age as a person's player. If they're looking for another tall PG experiment, this seem like it.

If we don't get the Toronto pick, and being a "weak draft", I'd consider trading up with second round picks to get into the 20s to consider this guy. Just a thought.

Also, average athleticism and smiles very well, more catnip for Wright.

Having said all that, if we somehow ended up with him, I'll prepare for him to be a serial killer or whatever.

No Ceilings has their newest mock out and has George at #10. As a note, they have Johnny Furphy at #8. They have an article on George with an embedded video from his Miami coach who says he was tipped off about George by Jonathan Givony, who saw him in Switzerland. That's a bit wild.

I think we're going to see more volatility now that we're well into conference play and toward the Tournament and certain players are starting to show out or gurus are paying more attention.

[JPB]

The BEST thing about the new CBA is that all players must be measured at the combine. No more opting out, hiding one’s true dimensions.

I think a lot of the measurements criticisms boil down to what is bolded in the quoted post.

I don't critic his measurements, I doubt them, that's different. And they're key as far as evaluating a prospect that I wouldn't like more if he were 6'8... Already mentioned, but he's a poor man's Gradey Dick to me, without that NBA vibe Luka or Rubio or even TP had at his age. You know, that groove, that feeling they belong... Topic does look to me like your typical, euro, white PG who can do things here he could'nt in the NBA , whether it is driving by your guy or finshing... He's agressive but does'nt look that smooth, natural and actually that skilled. Even his layups are very "euro-ish". He's just a tad more aggresive Beno in my books with a longer neck. Not worth a lottery pick, not high lottery anyway. He's pretty high right now more by default than anything, with so few College guys standing out, but I can see him dropping getting closer to the draft.

[mo7888]

I don't critic his measurements, I doubt them, that's different. And they're key as far as evaluating a prospect that I wouldn't like more if he were 6'8... Already mentioned, but he's a poor man's Gradey Dick to me, without that NBA vibe Luka or Rubio or even TP had at his age. You know, that groove, that feeling they belong... Topic does look to me like your typical, euro, white PG who can do things here he could'nt in the NBA , whether it is driving by your guy or finshing... He's agressive but does'nt look that smooth, natural and actually that skilled. Even his layups are very "euro-ish". He's just a tad more aggresive Beno in my books with a longer neck. Not worth a lottery pick, not high lottery anyway. He's pretty high right now more by default than anything, with so few College guys standing out, but I can see him dropping getting closer to the draft.

I literally don't see one thing in his game that's similar to Gradey Dick. There's no comp there...

[SpursBills]

I'm not seeing the Grady Dick comp, sorry. In fact I'd say he's probably the exact opposite of Dick in terms of play style, strengths and weaknesses.

I'm actually with Bruno on Topic. I'm probably not going to discuss him any further until I see him in Euroleague. It'd be one thing if he was playing ABA the entire season, then we could analyze his strengths and weaknesses ad nauseam here. But to me there's no point in speculating on how he'll translate to the NBA when we are going to have much better information on his abilities in just a couple weeks when he comes back from injury.

[scott]

Unless Topic comes back and starts showing in Euroleague, I'm pretty much out on him.

[JPB]

I literally don't see one thing in his game that's similar to Gradey Dick. There's no comp there...

My point is Dick is what Topic would be in the NBA, as I don't see him being able to do all the stuff he does in Europe, just like Micic isn't. The pace is so diifferent, the game so much faster, so much more athletic... Topic would just be a bad or stricky shooter afraid to drive (like Dick) having a few moments but not a really productive player... He's playing in a pretty poor league and his defense is still just not good at all.. Put Dick in Topic's league and I'm sure he would look good too.

But that's my personal scouting report and I guess some poeple would see otherwise, Just like some people thought Darko Milicic was worth a #1 pick because he was showing stuff in Europe but ended up as a stiff in the NBA. Topic hasn"t hwon anything that let me imagine he'd be anything than a Gradey Dick out there, the equivalent of a stiff for guards... And I still beleive he'll badly fall in the mock drafts the next few weeks. Givony got him rising but I bet most GMs haven't even see him play.

[Dejounte]

I literally don’t want us to get the best player from this draft. That would be a nightmare.

[spurraider21]

My point is Dick is what Topic would be in the NBA, as I don't see him being able to do all the stuff he does in Europe, just like Micic isn't. The pace is so diifferent, the game so much faster, so much more athletic... Topic would just be a bad or stricky shooter afraid to drive (like Dick) having a few moments but not a really productive player... He's playing in a pretty poor league and his defense is still just not good at all.. Put Dick in Topic's league and I'm sure he would look good too.

But that's my personal scouting report and I guess some poeple would see otherwise, Just like some people thought Darko Milicic was worth a #1 pick because he was showing stuff in Europe but ended up as a stiff in the NBA. Topic hasn"t hwon anything that let me imagine he'd be anything than a Gradey Dick out there, the equivalent of a stiff for guards... And I still beleive he'll badly fall in the mock drafts the next few weeks. Givony got him rising but I bet most GMs haven't even see him play.
dick and topic are pretty close to polar opposites in style of play, i really dont see the comp unless you are just going a roundabout way of saying he's too athletically challenged to succeed in the nba

[Russ]

My point is Dick is what Topic would be in the NBA, as I don't see him being able to do all the stuff he does in Europe, just like Micic isn't. The pace is so diifferent, the game so much faster, so much more athletic... Topic would just be a bad or stricky shooter afraid to drive (like Dick) having a few moments but not a really productive player... He's playing in a pretty poor league and his defense is still just not good at all.. Put Dick in Topic's league and I'm sure he would look good too.

But that's my personal scouting report and I guess some poeple would see otherwise, Just like some people thought Darko Milicic was worth a #1 pick because he was showing stuff in Europe but ended up as a stiff in the NBA. Topic hasn"t hwon anything that let me imagine he'd be anything than a Gradey Dick out there, the equivalent of a stiff for guards... And I still beleive he'll badly fall in the mock drafts the next few weeks. Givony got him rising but I bet most GMs haven't even see him play.

The problem is we Americans don't understand the Euro (especially Serbian) game and it's hard for us to understand how guys like Topic play or what they're capable of over here.

Our players succeed with speed and explosiveness (power).

The really high-end Euro guys succeed with angles -- they see the game as a series of angles way more than we do. And if they learn to see it that way instinctively, they're damn near unstoppable (in part because they seem so different to our players).

They use change of speeds way more than our guys do, they hesitate, Euro-step, change directions in ways we don't routinely see.

We always say they'll never be able to that here, but the really good ones do.

Jokic (although not a point guard like Topic) illustrates this. He's slow, fat, and can't jump but has a feel and sense for the game that our guys rarely develop.

Each player over there, from a young age learns how to play "total basketball" like the Dutch used to play "total football" -- all positions on the court.

The best American analogy might be Larry Bird -- he played with that sense of space and angles that allowed him to succeed way more than the measurables should have allowed.

Topic seems to exhibit these traits. Based on what I've seen, I think Topic has a very good chance to become a high-end player in the NBA.

[DAF86]

The problem is we Americans don't understand the Euro (especially Serbian) game and it's hard for us to understand how guys like Topic play or what they're capable of over here.

Our players succeed with speed and explosiveness (power).

The really high-end Euro guys succeed with angles -- they see the game as a series of angles way more than we do. And if they learn to see it that way instinctively, they're damn near unstoppable (in part because they seem so different to our players).

They use change of speeds way more than our guys do, they hesitate, Euro-step, change directions in ways we don't routinely see.

We always say they'll never be able to that here, but the really good ones do.

Jokic (although not a point guard like Topic) illustrates this. He's slow, fat, and can't jump but has a feel and sense for the game that our guys rarely develop.

Each player over there, from a young age learns how to play "total basketball" like the Dutch used to play "total football" -- all positions on the court.

The best American analogy might be Larry Bird -- he played with that sense of space and angles that allowed him to succeed way more than the measurables should have allowed.

Topic seems to exhibit these traits. Based on what I've seen, I think Topic has a very good chance to become a high-end player in the NBA.

That's all soccer, tbh. Soccer develops those skills like no other sport, and every European (and South American) player has played soccer as kids. BB players then translate it to their sport.

[Mr. Body]

Watched parts of the Tennessee and Miami games.

Dalton Knecht. He's a workhorse for the Vols so the question is whether he can scale down. Question of whether he's physically matured compared to his competition is valid, but college isn't full of slender reeds. His defense is pretty good, good hands. May not get as many threes up as you'd like, although it's 5.5 per game for the season. If he's a SF, he rebounds a touch below what's optimal but still pretty good. In a normal draft I'd want him around the late teens, early twenties. Feel like he'd benefit a contending team. Otherwise I feel like he'll get figured out a bit and would work best as an off-ball role player. Sort of like Keldon in that regard: he's shooting or he's driving hard.

Kyshawn George. Got 13, 5, and 6 with 4 turnovers and 3-6 from range. Doesn't seem like he's 6'8" or 6'9". Miami has him initiate at times. Great hands, a little slow-footed on defense but I don't think it's because of athleticism, rather just adjusting and learning timing. Would not guess he's a freshman, one of the better Hurricanes out there for a veteran team that doesn't look like they'll make the tournament. Great range, good handles, not exactly a supreme athlete but quick and smooth.

I think George is really intriguing. Miami will full-court press him staying. If he won't go lottery, maybe will, but I'd go if I were him. Shades of Cameron Johnson. Connector, potential high end 3&D with ballhandling potential.

[onechance87]

Watched parts of the Tennessee and Miami games.

Dalton Knecht. He's a workhorse for the Vols so the question is whether he can scale down. Question of whether he's physically matured compared to his competition is valid, but college isn't full of slender reeds. His defense is pretty good, good hands. May not get as many threes up as you'd like, although it's 5.5 per game for the season. If he's a SF, he rebounds a touch below what's optimal but still pretty good. In a normal draft I'd want him around the late teens, early twenties. Feel like he'd benefit a contending team. Otherwise I feel like he'll get figured out a bit and would work best as an off-ball role player. Sort of like Keldon in that regard: he's shooting or he's driving hard.

Kyshawn George. Got 13, 5, and 6 with 4 turnovers and 3-6 from range. Doesn't seem like he's 6'8" or 6'9". Miami has him initiate at times. Great hands, a little slow-footed on defense but I don't think it's because of athleticism, rather just adjusting and learning timing. Would not guess he's a freshman, one of the better Hurricanes out there for a veteran team that doesn't look like they'll make the tournament. Great range, good handles, not exactly a supreme athlete but quick and smooth.

I think George is really intriguing. Miami will full-court press him staying. If he won't go lottery, maybe will, but I'd go if I were him. Shades of Cameron Johnson. Connector, potential high end 3&D with ballhandling potential.

would knecht be a upgrade over champ tho

[alfahdlan]

Not asking too much. Just the Toronto pick for this guy.

https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/reed-sheppards-numbers-are-still (https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/reed-sheppards-numbers-are-still)

[Mr. Body]

would knecht be a upgrade over champ tho

Assuming his shooting would translate and his defense would be at least as good as Champ's, sure. He'd be a slashing threat that Julian doesn't provide. Not sure he's the right pick for the team overall though.

[Mr. Body]

I just realized who Dalton Knecht is. He's Dan Majerle.

[Ditty]

For those who have done some scouting on Risacher and Salaun. Bruno? What are some of the differences and similarities y'all are seeing?

I read that Wemby's and Salaun's family are very familiar with each other. They also worked out with each other and Wemby complimented him on his work ethic. Maybe he is option #1 if they fall out of the top 3/4 or get TOR's pick.

So far, I would feel better with Salaun with TOR pick than Risacher as a top 3 pick.

[JPB]

The problem is we Americans don't understand the Euro (especially Serbian) game and it's hard for us to understand how guys like Topic play or what they're capable of over here.

Our players succeed with speed and explosiveness (power).

The really high-end Euro guys succeed with angles -- they see the game as a series of angles way more than we do. And if they learn to see it that way instinctively, they're damn near unstoppable (in part because they seem so different to our players).

They use change of speeds way more than our guys do, they hesitate, Euro-step, change directions in ways we don't routinely see.

We always say they'll never be able to that here, but the really good ones do.

Jokic (although not a point guard like Topic) illustrates this. He's slow, fat, and can't jump but has a feel and sense for the game that our guys rarely develop.

Each player over there, from a young age learns how to play "total basketball" like the Dutch used to play "total football" -- all positions on the court.

The best American analogy might be Larry Bird -- he played with that sense of space and angles that allowed him to succeed way more than the measurables should have allowed.

Topic seems to exhibit these traits. Based on what I've seen, I think Topic has a very good chance to become a high-end player in the NBA.

I don't, and hold your horses anyway (if I may)... The kid has proved absolutely nothing so far at the highest level in Europe. He's the definition of a prospect most people here didn't know about 3 months ago... How many live games from him did you see to be so categorical? Don't tell me you're making your judgment on YT highlligts where he doesn't actually look that good vs. no names...

Besides, the myth of "smart" euro players vs. dumb, jumping US athlets is also mostly that, a myth nowadays that Im' mostly hearing US people drop. Otherwise, the NBA would be full of euro, starting PGs. It's not... There's plenty of US players who can understand and read the game as well, while more athletic. Euro players have no choice and just have to compensate because of lack of that athelticism.

Sure the US didn't win the last WC, but they didn't send their best players while other national teams have years of corporate knowledge and collective experience vs. a couple of weeks of training camp for the US with different rules and environment.

Nobody, including himself, expected Jokic to be that good, reason why he's been selected in the second round as a somehow, skilled big... Using him as an example to tag an unathletic, 18 euro guard who just looks like that as a probable high end player is really far fetched to me... And how many Jokices in the NBA are we talking about? he's an exception...You wanna make more pertinent, closest comparisons? Compare Topic, to other ,"smart, I can read angles" former Euroleague MVPs like Teodosic and Micic in recent years. They're the closest you can compare Topic to... How did it go for them in the NBA in their prime? How did it go for Nando, another Euroleague MVP? If they're so smart, how many euro, young PGs ended up as "high end players" in the NBA the last 10 years?

The couple ones who succeeded (Rubio and Luka) were "wonder kids" you could already tag as "special" as teens.. you knew, you could see they had it, they had that superior talent, and those superior skills aknowledged by everyone.... Topic is an intriguing, unatheltic guard people talk about because it's a weak year and Givony put him on top of his mock drafts... Watch him drop quickly when people really start to watch his games and suspect defense or shooting...

[CGD]

I just realized who Dalton Knecht is. He's Dan Majerle.

That sounds pretty damn interesting if true. Majerle was gritty MF’er

[mo7888]

For those who have done some scouting on Risacher and Salaun. Bruno? What are some of the differences and similarities y'all are seeing?

I read that Wemby's and Salaun's family are very familiar with each other. They also worked out with each other and Wemby complimented him on his work ethic. Maybe he is option #1 if they fall out of the top 3/4 or get TOR's pick.

So far, I would feel better with Salaun with TOR pick than Risacher as a top 3 pick.

Risacher is a little older and more advanced as a shooter. He's also the better defender. Salaun is a little taller, but that relatively new to him because he's had a couple growth spurts. His ball handling is better probably due to the fact thst he was more of a perimeter guy before the growth. I think Salaun is more athletic with more upside, but Risacher will be better earlier in their careers. Salaun also has a higher bust potential due to being so raw.

[The Truth #6]

Assuming his shooting would translate and his defense would be at least as good as Champ's, sure. He'd be a slashing threat that Julian doesn't provide. Not sure he's the right pick for the team overall though.

It's a fair point: is he the right fit? I think he has more talent and better scoring potential than Champ. To me hesn upgrade in a simple sense. But if Sochan is our 4, we need more help with
rebounding, for example, among other things. Yeah, the team needs high end talent at the 1 and 3. Knecht isn't that. Not a great rebounder, either.

To me, a question I have is, is he better than Reed Shephard, another player in consideration for the Toronto pick.

Anyway. Just rambling.

[Russ]

I don't, and hold your horses anyway (if I may)... The kid has proved absolutely nothing so far at the highest level in Europe. He's the definition of a prospect most people here didn't know about 3 months ago... How many live games from him did you see to be so categorical? Don't tell me you're making your judgment on YT highlligts where he doesn't actually look that good vs. no names...

Besides, the myth of "smart" euro players vs. dumb, jumping US athlets is also mostly that, a myth nowadays that Im' mostly hearing US people drop. Otherwise, the NBA would be full of euro, starting PGs. It's not... There's plenty of US players who can understand and read the game as well, while more athletic. Euro players have no choice and just have to compensate because of lack of that athelticism.

Sure the US didn't win the last WC, but they didn't send their best players while other national teams have years of corporate knowledge and collective experience vs. a couple of weeks of training camp for the US with different rules and environment.

Nobody, including himself, expected Jokic to be that good, reason why he's been selected in the second round as a somehow, skilled big... Using him as an example to tag an unathletic, 18 euro guard who just looks like that as a probable high end player is really far fetched to me... And how many Jokices in the NBA are we talking about? he's an exception...You wanna make more pertinent, closest comparisons? Compare Topic, to other ,"smart, I can read angles" former Euroleague MVPs like Teodosic and Micic in recent years. They're the closest you can compare Topic to... How did it go for them in the NBA in their prime? How did it go for Nando, another Euroleague MVP? If they're so smart, how many euro, young PGs ended up as "high end players" in the NBA the last 10 years?

The couple ones who succeeded (Rubio and Luka) were "wonder kids" you could already tag as "special" as teens.. you knew, you could see they had it, they had that superior talent, and those superior skills aknowledged by everyone.... Topic is an intriguing, unatheltic guard people talk about because it's a weak year and Givony put him on top of his mock drafts... Watch him drop quickly when people really start to watch his games and suspect defense or shooting...

Good points. There's no guarantee Topic will make it in the NBA, but he passes the eye test IMO -- that's the bigger key for me, not his pedigree.

So the main point I would dispute is that Topic is unathletic or that he can't get to the hoop against better athletes. I think he can.

The other quibble I have -- and it's my fault because I didn't make it clear enough -- is that all Euro players possess the qualities I was touting that Jokic has and that, I think Topic may have. The guys that have that mostly come from the former Yugoslavia, i.e., Serbia, Croatia, etc. They play a different game there than elsewhere in Europe.

For example, French players, although very good in their own right, don't generally have those skills. Wemby doesn't -- he's great for more obvious reasons, a physical freak.

There are a lot of European guys the Spurs drafted that I thought were wasted picks at the time. You mentioned Nando DeColo -- I thought he was downright slow and I'm still shocked that he had as much success in Europe as he did. Never thought he would make it over here. I thought Livio Jean Charles looked like a raw athlete with almost no basketball skills and thought he was a wasted pick. The Spurs drafting Luka Samanic was also a mystery -- he didn't fit the Serbian model I was describing at all -- he actually was athletic and had none of the basketball skills that I was touting. I didn't like any of those guys that much on draft day. I like Topic.

One thing we can agree on, Topic is moving up in class and he'll have to prove himself all over again. Hopefully we'll know a lot more about him by the time the draft rolls around.

[manufan10]

Speaking of Topic, when is he returning to action?

[TimmehC]

Absolutely would not hate having a modern day Majerle on the squad. I get wanting to go for home run picks, but there seem to be several high-floor guys (like Knecht) in this draft who could immediately improve the awful Spurs bench unit. Save the home run swings for better drafts in '25 and '26 imo

[exstatic]

Speaking of Topic, when is he returning to action?

Someone said that he was basically ready, but Euroleague teams are on a break to play national team ball until the end of this month.

[exstatic]

Absolutely would not hate having a modern day Majerle on the squad. I get wanting to go for home run picks, but there seem to be several high-floor guys (like Knecht) in this draft who could immediately improve the awful Spurs bench unit. Save the home run swings for better drafts in '25 and '26 imo

The odds of hitting a home run pick go up the more times you swing for one. I’d hate to go through this absolute shit season, and settle for a bunt single. I’d want PATFO to get into the batters box, eradicate the back line, and fucking swing from their heels.

[Russ]

Speaking of Topic, when is he returning to action?


His coach said a week ago that it would take longer than expected because they were really cautious.

Teams in Europe are now entering a break until the end of the month to let national teams play some games. Topic's team next game is on March 1st. If the end of his rehab is going well, I guess he would be back for that game.

[Russ]

Absolutely would not hate having a modern day Majerle on the squad. I get wanting to go for home run picks, but there seem to be several high-floor guys (like Knecht) in this draft who could immediately improve the awful Spurs bench unit. Save the home run swings for better drafts in '25 and '26 imo

Problem is, the Spurs may not be batting cleanup in those drafts. (Hopefully they won't, anyway.)

[rascal]

Absolutely would not hate having a modern day Majerle on the squad. I get wanting to go for home run picks, but there seem to be several high-floor guys (like Knecht) in this draft who could immediately improve the awful Spurs bench unit. Save the home run swings for better drafts in '25 and '26 imo

The so called high floor guys also have bust potential.

There are no high floor players, just players with limited upside potential because of a lack of athleticism or quickness or shooting form.

[The Truth #6]

The so called high floor guys also have bust potential.

There are no high floor players, just players with limited upside potential because of a lack of athleticism or quickness or shooting form.

I think you may be blinded by Knecht's whiteness. He has a good shooting form with high release like Devin. He can jump high. He can do putback dunks in traffic. He has a good handle from being a former point guard.

[manufan10]

Someone said that he was basically ready, but Euroleague teams are on a break to play national team ball until the end of this month.
Russ

:tu

[scott]

The odds of hitting a home run pick go up the more times you swing for one. I’d hate to go through this absolute shit season, and settle for a bunt single. I’d want PATFO to get into the batters box, eradicate the back line, and fucking swing from their heels.

And what are you telling Wemby's camp after you've struck out for a few years in a row?

Swinging for the fence with each at bat also comes at a cost... and let's be honest, this FO hasn't proven itself to exactly be a power hitter outside of picking #1 overall. Maybe this FO is Ozzie Smith and bunt singles are our strength. Sure, Ozzie would hit the occassional HR (28 career HRs), but not the guy you are sending up to swing for the fences each time.

[Mr. Body]

Every guy they draft will be something of an upside pick. Even if you pick a Knecht, you're hoping he turns out. I compared him to Majerle. Although the comp isn't exact - they're different players, of course - Majerle played for a very minor college with a low SOS for four years and grew into a very, very good complementary player on a team that went to the Finals.

We're in an era where only kids who are freshman or equivalent are thought to have upside. Of course there are differences. I get the point that a guy who has played all four years in college doesn't have much more room to grow. You'd also question why he wasn't good enough to go earlier. But to me there needs to be a market correction in recognizing that a slightly older player with more experience may be a better grab than a Jett Howard or Jalen Hood-Schifino who were attractive because they were young.

It's situational, though. This draft is all role-players, to me, with some hope for more.

[scott]

To continue with the baseball analogy... you may want to hit a home run, but some drafts throw you nothing but balls in the dirt. You can swing at those and hope for the astronomical longshot that you hit a HR off that (draft Josh Primo)... or you can just take the walk (draft 21 year old Tre Murphy or 22 year old Herb Jones with that pick).

Note: the example above is using 20/20 hindsight so don't take it too literally... but just an example that sometimes the HR swing for the sake of HR swings is an obvious error

[Bruno]

For those who have done some scouting on Risacher and Salaun. Bruno? What are some of the differences and similarities y'all are seeing?


Aside of being French, very young and able to shoot 3's, they are quite different players.

Risacher is an oversized wing. He doesn't have that one skill/move that blows you away but he does a lot of different things very well. His BBIQ and feel for the game is also remarkable for an 18 years old. He is just a good basketball player doing the right play at the right time. Physically, I would say he is fine. He isn't as skinny as it seems with already some strength in his lower body. His defense is also good. At 6'9" he obviously isn't as mobile as a 6'5" player but his length help him compensate that. He is playing a well define role with his team and it's up in the air if he can do more but I certainly wouldn't say he has a low ceiling.

Salaün is a stretch PF. His combination of size, strength, mobility, motor and outside shooting is quite unique. Aside of that there are a lot of work to do. He is still raw and his game must be clearly refined. Rebounding is an issue. I'm not sure how low/high is BBIQ is, there just isn't a lot of nuances in his game right now. Defense might end up being his best attribute, he is putting a lot of effort into it and has the physical attributes to be a force on that end. He is the typical gamble that we see each year in the draft.

[mo7888]

Absolutely would not hate having a modern day Majerle on the squad. I get wanting to go for home run picks, but there seem to be several high-floor guys (like Knecht) in this draft who could immediately improve the awful Spurs bench unit. Save the home run swings for better drafts in '25 and '26 imo

I wouldn't take Knecht with the Toronto pick. If we made some other move that netted us a lower 1st then I'd seriously consider him. Thats a better spot to go higher floor. As ex said, 'swing for the fences' with those top picks.

[The Truth #6]

I wouldn't take Knecht with the Toronto pick. If we made some other move that netted us a lower 1st then I'd seriously consider him. Thats a better spot to go higher floor. As ex said, 'swing for the fences' with those top picks.

It's a solid point. What do you think about Kyshawn George rising up the boards and his fit?

[mo7888]

It's a solid point. What do you think about Kyshawn George rising up the boards and his fit?

I haven't looked as close at him as most because he's just recently started getting noticed. I can certainly see why he's rising. Kid can shoot, handle the ball, and he's got good mobility on the defensive end even though his technique is still a work in progress. Like Salaun, he's had a relatively recent growth spurt. He looks a little timid to me, but that could simply be a product of him adjusting to his 'new lengthy body'. I need to watch more film, but he's intriguing for sure. If his timidity is more a product of understanding his body rather than not having that dawg in him he could be a real high ceiling guy.

As for fit, anybody with tight handles, length, and that shot will fit just about anywhere.

[Bruno]

Kyshawn George backstory is quite interesting.
He is Swiss and his dad is a Canadian former pro player. In 2019, he joined french team Chalon (like Sefolosha and Capela before him) and was 5'9". Between 2019 and 2022, he barely played mostly because of a growth spurt that created knee issues. In 2022/23, he showed some promises as a 6'7" PG in french second division before joining college last summer. As a result of all that, he is quite old for a freshman (born in December 2003).

[Mr. Body]

What do we mean when we say 'upside' or 'swinging for the fences'? Seems like terms that mean slightly different things to different people.

For example, no one thought Jalen Williams was a swing for the fences pick. He had a great, multi-faceted junior year at Santa Clara, but no one thought he'd be a home run. Ousmane Dieng was the home run swing. Pokusevski was a home run swing.

[spurraider21]

What do we mean when we say 'upside' or 'swinging for the fences'? Seems like terms that mean slightly different things to different people.

For example, no one thought Jalen Williams was a swing for the fences pick. He had a great, multi-faceted junior year at Santa Clara, but no one thought he'd be a home run. Ousmane Dieng was the home run swing. Pokusevski was a home run swing.
theres no precise definition but the gist is usually somebody who is young and in some way uniquely athletic. the idea being we have no clue just how good the end product could be. even though the player isnt particularly good now. its a high risk high reward selection. think salaun. last year, timvp described wesley as a home run swing, as a player who simply wasnt very good at the time, but had some athletic traits that really could be molded into something remarkable if he gets it right

as opposed to a more sure thing who seems like they're pretty close to what the finished product will look like. such as dalton knecht. at 23 yo, the amount if improvement you expect is usually not as great.

sometimes the guy people felt is a "safe" pick ends up becoming a star. and sometimes the guy we thought was a home run swing just becomes a solid role player. its not a perfect science.

[Seventyniner]

sometimes the guy people felt is a "safe" pick ends up becoming a star. and sometimes the guy we thought was a home run swing just becomes a solid role player. its not a perfect science.

At draft time Number Two was supposed to just be a high floor role player iirc.

[scott]

I think the best recent examples of homerun swing versus "safe pick" are Bilal Coulibaly versus Jaime Jaquez.

Jaquez is having the better rookie season, but Coulibaly hasn't been a complete disappointment. Who knows how that will look in 3 years time. Chris Duarte was a "high floor" pick who had a great rookie season but has fallen off a cliff (I have no clue what happened here... injuries?).

[mo7888]

What do we mean when we say 'upside' or 'swinging for the fences'? Seems like terms that mean slightly different things to different people.

For example, no one thought Jalen Williams was a swing for the fences pick. He had a great, multi-faceted junior year at Santa Clara, but no one thought he'd be a home run. Ousmane Dieng was the home run swing. Pokusevski was a home run swing.

I think when we're talking about swinging for the fences we're talking about someone that you believe can be a top 3 guy on a championship contender. Do you see the potential for a guy to reach that if he puts it all together... contrast that with a high floor (single or double up the middle) guy who has a marketable skill but is limited in other areas or maybe he even has a few marketable skills that aren't elite but he probably doesn't have a lot of room for improvement. As spurraider said, there's not a precise definition, so you can't absolutely quantify it.

[exstatic]

What do we mean when we say 'upside' or 'swinging for the fences'? Seems like terms that mean slightly different things to different people.

For example, no one thought Jalen Williams was a swing for the fences pick. He had a great, multi-faceted junior year at Santa Clara, but no one thought he'd be a home run. Ousmane Dieng was the home run swing. Pokusevski was a home run swing.

The three examples you gave, were in order: home run, strike out, strike out. JW is the very definition of swinging for the fence. You yourself said no one thought he’d be a home run. It’s not swinging for the fences when you draft a Wemby. Everyone knows he’s a HR

Towards the top of the draft, there are usually 1-3 high floor, high ceiling players. There aren’t any players that clearly meet that criteria, at least not yet. The next best category, to my mind, is high ceiling low floor, followed by low ceiling high floor. My definition of swinging for the fence is to draft a player who is high celing, low floor.

[Mr. Body]

The three examples you gave, were in order: home run, strike out, strike out. JW is the very definition of swinging for the fence. You yourself said no one thought he’d be a home run. It’s not swinging for the fences when you draft a Wemby. Everyone knows he’s a HR

No.

We can discuss what some of these terms are, but Jalen Williams was absolutely, 100% NOT a swing for the fences. It was going for a contributing player who was more likely to have tapped out his potential.

[Mr. Body]

Swinging for the fences means chopping at the ball hoping to launch it. Mostly you just strike out.

To me, it means hacking at an unlikely outcome, but a very fruitful outcome. A player with a high ceiling who is far from it, or it doesn't seem likely to happen, but for some reason you've got to do it (multiple chances, desperation).

What makes things complicated is that there are aspects to every pick that are very fluid. Whether you have more than one pick, the salary slot, opportunity costs. Swinging for the fences at #2 (James Wiseman) is different than swinging for the fences at #11 (Ousmane Dieng). With the #11 pick you're missing out on fewer potentially good players and paying $4.1 million a year vs. $9 million a year, not to mention assorted accumulating headaches in the seasons ahead.

A Jalen Williams was a fairly safe pick, going for a double that wound up going yard. Maybe it was earlier than some would have picked him, but he wasn't identified as having high upside.

And then there are questions of best player available vs. fit. At some points, going for fit is the better move. At some points, going less for upside is a better move.

One of the massive problems the Spurs face is that they're playing so many unseasoned players. Introducing a rookie into a veteran team, the vets can make up for rookie mistakes. With a team of inexperienced players, they're making mistakes all the time (not setting picks right, not reading the flow of the game), and often it's more than one guy making mistakes at the same time. That's extremely hard to fix. You're having to screw down countless issues over and over, much less identifying what's going on.

tl;dr:

To me there are picks that seem to have decent but not outrageously good ceilings who will be expensive but are great fits (Zaccharie Risacher).

There are moderate ceiling players who will be expensive but are not great fits (Alexandre Sarr).

There are moderate ability/home run swing players who will be expensive but are great needs (Nicola Topic is a home run if he plays defense/learns to shoot).

There are guys who are probably swinging for doubles (Dalton Knecht), who might help the floor of the total team, i.e. reduce the heaps of cumulative, compounding mistakes.

Then there are the rest. Some seem lower ceiling but with potential promise, if less than most years (Reed Sheppard), high potential but greater bust potential (Rob Dillingham).

As for who are the possible home run swings, I guess I'd say Ron Holland, Matas Buzelis, Cody Williams, Kyshawn George, Johnny Furphy. A number of things have to go right with them to become the stars you hope they can become while their floors may be worse than some of the others.

[mo7888]

Swinging for the fences means chopping at the ball hoping to launch it. Mostly you just strike out.

To me, it means hacking at an unlikely outcome, but a very fruitful outcome. A player with a high ceiling who is far from it, or it doesn't seem likely to happen, but for some reason you've got to do it (multiple chances, desperation).

What makes things complicated is that there are aspects to every pick that are very fluid. Whether you have more than one pick, the salary slot, opportunity costs. Swinging for the fences at #2 (James Wiseman) is different than swinging for the fences at #11 (Ousmane Dieng). With the #11 pick you're missing out on fewer potentially good players and paying $4.1 million a year vs. $9 million a year, not to mention assorted accumulating headaches in the seasons ahead.

A Jalen Williams was a fairly safe pick, going for a double that wound up going yard. Maybe it was earlier than some would have picked him, but he wasn't identified as having high upside.

And then there are questions of best player available vs. fit. At some points, going for fit is the better move. At some points, going less for upside is a better move.

One of the massive problems the Spurs face is that they're playing so many unseasoned players. Introducing a rookie into a veteran team, the vets can make up for rookie mistakes. With a team of inexperienced players, they're making mistakes all the time (not setting picks right, not reading the flow of the game), and often it's more than one guy making mistakes at the same time. That's extremely hard to fix. You're having to screw down countless issues over and over, much less identifying what's going on.

tl;dr:

To me there are picks that seem to have decent but not outrageously good ceilings who will be expensive but are great fits (Zaccharie Risacher).

There are moderate ceiling players who will be expensive but are not great fits (Alexandre Sarr).

There are moderate ability/home run swing players who will be expensive but are great needs (Nicola Topic is a home run if he plays defense/learns to shoot).

There are guys who are probably swinging for doubles (Dalton Knecht), who might help the floor of the total team, i.e. reduce the heaps of cumulative, compounding mistakes.

Then there are the rest. Some seem lower ceiling but with potential promise, if less than most years (Reed Sheppard), high potential but greater bust potential (Rob Dillingham).

As for who are the possible home run swings, I guess I'd say Ron Holland, Matas Buzelis, Cody Williams, Kyshawn George, Johnny Furphy. A number of things have to go right with them to become the stars you hope they can become while their floors may be worse than some of the others.

It's a matter of strategy and knowing where your team stands. If you've got Timmy, Manu, and Tony then going high floor makes tons of sense. When you sit where we are and need star talent then taking that big cut makes tons of sense.

And yes, there will always be a few guys that you think are high floor that end up having higher than anticipated ceilings (Kawhi, Klay etc) and there are plenty of high ceiling guys that bust.

Edited to add: I pretty much agree with your list categorizing players, but I would add JaKobe and Salaun to the possible homerun list.

[Mr. Body]

It's a matter of strategy and knowing where your team stands. If you've got Timmy, Manu, and Tony then going high floor makes tons of sense. When you sit where we are and need star talent then taking that big cut makes tons of sense.

And yes, there will always be a few guys that you think are high floor that end up having higher than anticipated ceilings (Kawhi, Klay etc) and there are plenty of high ceiling guys that bust.

Sure. My point is that continually hacking at the ball isn't going to help the team overall. In fact, it starts hurting bad franchises because you start having to pay more and more high rookie scale salaries to multiple guys. The Spurs are in astoundingly good shape because we got our franchise player on our first technical tank year without having any bad rookie salaries. Sochan at the #9 pick is very manageable.

Anyway. The point is this draft year, when we don't really have any star upside swings. The home run swings I see, really, are Holland, and whether you'd include George, Williams, and/or The Furph.

[spurraider21]

Sure. My point is that continually hacking at the ball isn't going to help the team overall. In fact, it starts hurting bad franchises because you start having to pay more and more high rookie scale salaries to multiple guys. The Spurs are in astoundingly good shape because we got our franchise player on our first technical tank year without having any bad rookie salaries. Sochan at the #9 pick is very manageable.

Anyway. The point is this draft year, when we don't really have any star upside swings. The home run swings I see, really, are Holland, and whether you'd include George, Williams, and/or The Furph.
i dont think teams are really hamstrung by rookie scale salaries at all

[Mr. Body]

i dont think teams are really hamstrung by rookie scale salaries at all

That's wrong. Houston is looking at a crunch and already having to think about Jalen Green. It's not the first contract that bites them, it's the next ones.

[objective]

I am reluctantly on the Sheppard train

I think this draft stinks and am not thrilled about anyone

But this team desperately needs shooting and some decent iq

He's only 6-2 at best and will probably be a bench player most of his career. Really hard to pair him with someone like Trae Young in case that happens.

I'd rather him with the Toronto pick. The more I watch prospects the worse I feel

[scott]

I'd add that a home run swing inherently implies an attempt to land an all-star caliber player. You could look at Keldon, for example, and think he is a homerun because he FAR exceeds what you expected from the #29 pick. But in reality, that is not a homerun, because homeruns means the ball went over the fence, not merely that you got a base hit when you didn't expect one.

So, I'd call a pick like DJM a homerun (you took a swing on a player who you don't necessarily amount to anything, and you got an all-star). Keldon Johnson is a double where you expected to strike out. Josh Primo was a homerun pick. Sochan, IMO, was an example of a lottery pick where you are taking a safer route... I don't expect him to be an all-star, but I don't need him to. He was picked to be a solid contributor, not a star. If he develops into one... awesome.

[spurraider21]

That's wrong. Houston is looking at a crunch and already having to think about Jalen Green. It's not the first contract that bites them, it's the next ones.
next year they're going to open the offseason about 5 mil above the cap, in position to use the full MLE worth about 13 mil. if jalen green's contract disappeared, they would be 7 mil below the cap and would have access to the lesser 8 mil room exception. so jalen green's contract affects about 2 mil of spending power next year. hardly a burden. and thats the last year of his rookie deal.

[scott]

That's wrong. Houston is looking at a crunch and already having to think about Jalen Green. It's not the first contract that bites them, it's the next ones.

But at some point, the second contract is really not related to the rookie contract, as you aren't required to pay these guys. Jalen Green's second contract will a reflection of his market value based on his performance during his rookie contract, not merely scaled to his rookie contract.

Jalen Smith is a good example of this - his performance didn't warrant that big second contract despite being a lottery pick. Mo Bamba another good example - his earnings have slid backwards as he's just not proven to be good enough for a big second contract.

We'll see this offseason at what James Wiseman commands. My guess is that the AAV of his new contract will be significantly less than the $12MM he is making this year on his rookie scale deal.

[Mr. Body]

But at some point, the second contract is really not related to the rookie contract, as you aren't required to pay these guys. Jalen Green's second contract will a reflection of his market value based on his performance during his rookie contract, not merely scaled to his rookie contract.

Jalen Smith is a good example of this - his performance didn't warrant that big second contract despite being a lottery pick. Mo Bamba another good example - his earnings have slid backwards as he's just not proven to be good enough for a big second contract.

We'll see this offseason at what James Wiseman commands. My guess is that the AAV of his new contract will be significantly less than the $12MM he is making this year on his rookie scale deal.

Phoenix was on the hook for a ton of money if they wanted to keep Ayton, who was picked too high at number one. They wound up picking up his contract which gave them tons of problems until they finally traded him.

[scott]

Phoenix was on the hook for a ton of money if they wanted to keep Ayton, who was picked too high at number one. They wound up picking up his contract which gave them tons of problems until they finally traded him.

Yes, but even Indy (who presumably likes him and wants him as part of their team) only gave him 3/$15, because that's all he's earned (assuming there isn't something else going on like Jalen just really wanting to live in fucking Indiana).

My point is that if Jalen Green is going to cost Houston a big 2nd contract, it will be because he's earned it - not because they are forced into that situation. They can easily just let him test RFA and decide to match whatever the market dictates.

[exstatic]

Yes, but even Indy (who presumably likes him and wants him as part of their team) only gave him 3/$15, because that's all he's earned (assuming there isn't something else going on like Jalen just really wanting to live in fucking Indiana).

My point is that if Jalen Green is going to cost Houston a big 2nd contract, it will be because he's earned it - not because they are forced into that situation. They can easily just let him test RFA and decide to match whatever the market dictates.

I think there’s starting to be a trend, small now but I can see it growing of just waiving guys who don’t cut the mustard, no second contract at all. Killian Hayes is probably their poster child, but he’s far from the first flameout Detroit Top 10 pick.

[spurraider21]

Phoenix was on the hook for a ton of money if they wanted to keep Ayton, who was picked too high at number one. They wound up picking up his contract which gave them tons of problems until they finally traded him.
if you want to re-sign somebody to the max contract available to him thats your prerogative. if indiana gives him a huge contract and you decide to match it, thats your prerogative. thats not being tied to his rookie deal, thats your decision that he's worth that money to keep around, after having seen him every day for the last 4 years

whether he was picked #1 or #20, the max contract available to him wouldnt have been different. tyrese maxey will wind up having the same second contract as anthony edwards despite being picked much later. haliburton already has the same deal as edwards despite being picked later

if a rookie scale contract is the worst contract a team has, then they must be doing really fucking well otherwise :lol

as i stated in my comment above, right now jalen green's contract affects houston's spending power by about 2 million. its really not a needle-mover at all

[spurraider21]

Yes, but even Indy (who presumably likes him and wants him as part of their team) only gave him 3/$15, because that's all he's earned (assuming there isn't something else going on like Jalen just really wanting to live in fucking Indiana).

My point is that if Jalen Green is going to cost Houston a big 2nd contract, it will be because he's earned it - not because they are forced into that situation. They can easily just let him test RFA and decide to match whatever the market dictates.
i guess his RFA tender will be higher than it otherwise would be, but this is all small beans when it comes to cap management

[JPB]

I agree with Bruno about Salaun being much rawer and less polished than Risacher who is more fundamentally sound. I can see Risacher contribute, to some fashion in his rookie year already, while Salaun has much longer way to be an NBA player...

AS Bruno also said, Salaun is a very active, very energetic player, but maybe a bit too "crazy dog" sometimes, running more after the ball on both sides on the floor than anticipating or trying to read the play... Risacher has clearly a better BBIQ right now but he's still a bit too "shy" on the court, like a Boris or Batum could be, in the way they could appear a bit passive or too unselfish (that's actually how Risacher's father was too, a skilled, finesse SF a bit self-effacing at times).

Zacharie will have to learn to be more aggressive both on offense (his assist # is way too low for a player with his court vision, he should go for it instead of moving the ball too much) and more aggressive on defense (go after rebounds and steals). he tends to stick to his man.

Zach is the better shooter, which Salaun actually isn't. That's not what he would be in the NBA. Sure Salaun shoots 37% on 3 for the season, but he's extremely stricky, that's kind of all of nothing, like 4/3 or 2/3 vs. 1-9 or 0-4... His shot selection is pretty poor and he's actually shooting 38% overall for the season, notably due to bad shooting mechanics (his release is too low, that's eye popping)
I also "confirm" defense would be his best attribute in the NBA, if he can canalize his energy and learn the game, as a versatile PF who can defend bigs but also perimeter players à la Sochan. Best scenario is a defensive, stretch PF, since he still seems comfortable behind the arc in a vacuum even off the dribble...

On another note, people who would have only started watching Risacher these last 5 games would wonder who is that scrub... he's kind of hit a rookie wall, with pretty bad shooting % in the french league (but still one good game in Euro cup in between. Zach's FT% (72%) could be worrying but not that bad for a kid his age and maybe just a question of confidence.

[The Truth #6]

Good discussion. The reason I considered Knecht for a late Toronto lottery pick is because I don't think they will do anything in the offseason to address upgrading the SF spot, even in the short term. That position might actually get worse next year if Cedi is gone and Cidy is likely still too raw.

I understand home run swings, but I don't think Knecht has stopped developing. He's a senior but has only played one year in D1. He is not a typical senior who has been at a big school all 4 years. And so it's an interesting conversation of when players stop developing. I think of Tatum and he's in what his 5th or 6th year and still improving.

Anyway. There are a lot of factors that will change and so if we somehow got a pick at 12, it will be an interesting decision.

[scott]

For those who watch him closely, how does Knecht's game compare to Grady Dick's? I ask because Dick's archetype (not necessarily Dick the player) seems like it would be a very good fit for this team.

[Mr. Body]

For those who watch him closely, how does Knecht's game compare to Grady Dick's? I ask because Dick's archetype (not necessarily Dick the player) seems like it would be a very good fit for this team.

IMO pretty different players, with Dick being more of a spot-up shooter who can make cuts when the defense is napping. Knecht is an offensive focal point, coming off rolls, picks, initiating, slashing. He'll measure up his man before launching but can spot-up, too. A much more dynamic activation player. Tbh I see Knecht as more of a SG while Dick is more clearly a SF/wing. Dick is going to be comfortable sitting in the corner or wing while you'd want Knecht to have more of an active role.

To be clear, Knecht is three years older at draft time than Dick was.

(The player to compare to Dick is likely The Furph.)

[spurraider21]

for people disappointed over hyped prospects like Buzelis having down years... just look at GG Jackson right now

[scott]

Thanks Mr. Body. Based on your description (and previous analysis) of Knecht, I am really drawn to him as a potential solution as a backup SG behind Devin. Sure, you want more than a projected backup out of your lottery picks, but that role is pretty important as well (as we know from watching leads evaporate once Branham enters the game). I'm still liking the idea of Knecht or Filipowski with that TOR pick (assuming it conveys in the 8-12 range)

[The Truth #6]

There's a world where the Spurs pick two French players: Risacher with our pick and Keyshawn George with the TOR pick and try to mold KG into our potential point guard of the future. Not saying that will happen, but in such an uncertain draft there will be some likely "reaches" and seemingly odd moves.

[Mr. Body]

for people disappointed over hyped prospects like Buzelis having down years... just look at GG Jackson right now

Iirc, talent was never the question for him, it was his attitude. He attacked his coach on Instagram, would never pass the ball, forced his teammates to play defense for him. His efficiency was very low - not a good shooter at any level. South Carolina was extremely bad and one would suggest he was a big reason why. (They're top of the SEC this year.) His advanced metrics were horrible. Followed all that up with horrendous workouts, out of shape, was caught vaping after leaving one workout early. He's already been fined several times by the Grizzlies this year and was just suspended a game for breaking a team rule.

What he's doing right now despite all that is unprecedented.

[Mr. Body]

Thanks Mr. Body. Based on your description (and previous analysis) of Knecht, I am really drawn to him as a potential solution as a backup SG behind Devin. Sure, you want more than a projected backup out of your lottery picks, but that role is pretty important as well (as we know from watching leads evaporate once Branham enters the game). I'm still liking the idea of Knecht or Filipowski with that TOR pick (assuming it conveys in the 8-12 range)

IMO you could play Knecht and Devin together in the main unit. I mean, it hurts with rebounding but it's not like Champ is giving you much there now. Knecht won't be a great defender but he does alright. Not the best solution but possible. And probably a reason why I'm not huge on him other than his age. (I'd consider Devin more of the wing. I think Knecht may be more comfortable initiating, possibly.)

[Russ]

for people disappointed over hyped prospects like Buzelis having down years... just look at GG Jackson right now

Jackson is averaging double digits in the NBA even if only getting 19 minutes a game as a 19 year old.

The Spurs could have had him at 33 or 44 but passed.

[jesterbobman]

I've been lazy in draft prep this year, and there's a lot in this thread.

Has discussion focused on immediately filling needs, or getting pieces that will fit, acknowledging that there are a lot of assets coming in 2025 and beyond?

I think we have (long term)...
Wemby (duh...) / Sochan / GAP / Vassell / GAP
GAP (I wish it was Collins, but he seems off and if he can't shoot at 35% he is less useful) / GAP / Keldon / GAP / Tre

I think those are reasonable expectations of a long term rotation, with the Barlow / Branham / Wesley / Champagnie etc...potential options for depth, though entirely likely to be filled by other options in time.

For this draft, and the 2025 draft, I'd want to cover starting PG (priority 1), starting SF (priority 2), backup centre (Wemby will get lots of minutes, though 32 - 36 mpg still leaves a gap), then PF / wing depth.

I think priority 1 for me is Topic - Risacher also fills a need, though the PG primary is more important as a gap (and, whilst long term projections are always a bit shit), 2025 doesn't look to have an A1 PG prospect- highest rated PG on https://nbadraftroom.com/2025-nba-mock-draft/ is at 20. There are a lot of SF (or forward generally) prospects high up (Flagg obviously at #1). Some weaknesses obviously, but I think being a huge dude at PG is super valuable, and size can compensate for quickness at PG, or allow to defend off ball against wings / tertiary perimeter players. I also doubt that any great options will turn up soon in the FA market for real impact PGs - teams don't let them go.

I think you want to get a SF with the second pick, as the starting SF option of Champagne is a bit light (though a better 3&D wing would be great). Anyone out of of Risacher, Buzelis, Holland should work there, depending on the choices of the relative importance of rim pressure, passing and shooting. I'd opt for shooting around Wemby, though I think that more passing skill throughout the roster is a big need (there's good system play, though instinct and passing ability are a team weakness).

I think getting absolutely shoot the piss out of the ball guys is valuable next to any A1 star, and Wemby definitely looks like that. That makes Reed Shepherd a really good option to me at the Toronto pick, especially if they don't get Topic.

As longer term strategy, I think next year the aim should be something like making the play in tournament. That'd be a big leap, but with internal development and 2 picks, should be doable.

After that (i.e at the 2025 draft) I think is probably closer to the time to use draft assets to upgrade. There's so much variance, though the Spurs having a bunch of immediate picks probably counts for more for a rebuilding team wanting to sell hope than uncertain future picks, and you could buy a Star with those assets whilst keeping picks for the 2026 draft onwards.

[baseline bum]

Problem is, the Spurs may not be batting cleanup in those drafts. (Hopefully they won't, anyway.)

Hopefully they will be with the Atlanta picks.

[JPB]

As longer term strategy, I think next year the aim should be something like making the play in tournament. That'd be a big leap, but with internal development and 2 picks, should be doable.

.

Sorry but that team doesn't make the play in next year just adding 2 rookies, not even close. Many expected just that last summer and they got worth adding Wemby... They just plain suck, adding 2 unproven kids won't do anything for that...

Devin and Tre are in their 4th year, Kedlon in his fifth... Collins badly regressed and the rest are borderline NBA players. At some point you gotta stop just betting on internal development and be real about what you got. This team needs more talent and players who know how to win to hope sniffing the play in next year. Not to mention other teams can eventually (and really) improve themselves.

But who knows, maybe Wesley will hit a layup next season.

[jesterbobman]

I wasn't specific (bad writing) but I think in addition to the rookie picks, they should use cap space to upgrade. I don't think all in now is sensible, but picks plus using space (or, lower tier assets to trade for actual, good / average NBA players) would be sensible.

Rough, semi realistic ideal for me would be something like: Topic and Sheppard in the early draft (2nd rounders exist, but not paying that much attention to them), sign Conley (2yr 40mil? - Overpay short), trade Collins / use remaining FA money to get a 3/4 wing (e.g, Collins +Charlotte pick or Branham for Grant, Kuzma level player - slightly overpaid 3/4 on a bad team), then another piece in a true backup centre - (e.g sign Hartenstein).

Wemby / Sochan / FA or trade wing / Vassell - Conley
Hartenstein - (bench PF X) - Keldon - Sheppard - Topic (Tre playing more early season).

With flotsam of Wesley, Barlow , Bassey / Champagnie, 2nd round picks, other FA flyers filling out the rest. Not a perfect team, though I think something like that would be a big step forward, could contend for the 10th seed and keep most assets for the future to swing later.

[CorrectCrusader]

Jackson is averaging double digits in the NBA even if only getting 19 minutes a game as a 19 year old.

The Spurs could have had him at 33 or 44 but passed.

Spurs culture wouldn't allow it. He's a mess

[DesignatedT]

The Spurs already have Dalton Knecht. His name is Devin Vassell.

[The Truth #6]

The Spurs already have Dalton Knecht. His name is Devin Vassell.

That's a glowing endorsement of Knecht!

[Mr. Body]

Watched Colorado last night, a team that struggles despite having three NBA possibilities.

I like Cody Williams. He is long and lanky but moves with smoothness. He went 100% across the board I believe. Never sped up and assured around the basket. I can see the attraction. Did basically nothing else. No rebounds, no assists. Defense is a bit of a muddle as older guards were too savvy and strong. There's stuff to work with here, just consistently balk at a top five slot. You're banking on other aspects of his game coming around.

[Mr. Body]

The Spurs already have Dalton Knecht. His name is Devin Vassell.

Pretty different players imo

[spurraider21]

The Spurs already have Dalton Knecht. His name is Devin Vassell.
would be nice to have someone other than Bran Ham play when he has to sit

[alfahdlan]

Reed: 65 steals in 25 games. For perspective, Rondo had 87 in 34 games. That was a good win by UK against a good defensive team in Auburn’s court.

[BackHome]

My man Furphy from Kansas had a good game against a good Oklahoma team - 15pts, 9rbs, 3sls - Would seriously think of maybe taking him if we get Raptors pick.

[Mr. Body]

Hard to tell Furphy's size, but seems good. Kansas is dominated by upperclassmen on offense, so he's always off ball, but he gets his shots up quickly and they move him around. Like the last game he was the only player who had anything working until later in the game. Moves well for a tall guy. His positioning and instincts in help defense are great, not as good on the ball but I think it's a much practice and experience. Despite being skinny, he's tough. Will get in there and bang for boards. When he puts on strength this will work very well for him.

Won't be surprised when he's at least a lottery pick.

[ginobilized]

I have never seen a draft class with so many Mike Dunleavy-esque players. Hard to get too excited.

If any of these lanky, white guys could end up closer to a Franz Wagner-lite, that would be the guy. Very speculative at this point.

[Mr. Body]

I have never seen a draft class with so many Mike Dunleavy-esque players. Hard to get too excited.

If any of these lanky, white guys could end up closer to a Franz Wagner-lite, that would be the guy. Very speculative at this point.

The Mike Dunleavy that had a seventeen year career?

[Mr. Body]

While we're there, Franz Wagner came out after his sophomore year. Comparing freshman year stats (so far), per 40 Furphy outperforms in fg%, 3pt% (by a good bit), slightly lower ft%, with fewer twos attempted, about the same threes, a touch more fts (neither went to the line much), about the same rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, turnovers, fouls.

Hard comparison by stats because Furphy's role is completely different these last twelve or so games, once he started and got a lot more time and greater responsibility. I do like that he's stepped up and that the last two games he's kept the team afloat somewhat while they've struggled (Tech game, they never recovered, but his line was good). He's doing well with only a 17% usage.

By eye test, I think Wagner is more of a facilitator, Furphy a better shooter (at this comparative stage), Wagner possibly bigger. Listing gave Wagner twenty pounds at draft day. Not unreasonable - he was half a year older at draft but a full year further into his college program.

Honestly, we often do this. "So and so isn't so and so." Well, obviously. But Wagner was disparaged before he was drafted. Most people thought he went too high. We constantly have this recency bias where we forget that good NBA players were once just young prospects. I don't think Furphy and Wagner are the same player. Of course. But I like what I see a good deal.

And if he winds up being Mike Dunleavy, Mike Dunleavy would be a great complementary player in today's NBA. He was pretty good back in the day. I'd be willing to bet Furphy could be at least as good and I'd take a close look. Franz Wagner went #8 by the way.

[JPB]

I have never seen a draft class with so many Mike Dunleavy-esque players. Hard to get too excited.

If any of these lanky, white guys could end up closer to a Franz Wagner-lite, that would be the guy. Very speculative at this point.

Call it the "Topic class"...

You never know but if you can indeed end up with a productive role player out this class, you could call it a win. The few intriguing players with potentially higher potential (like Risacher, Sarr or a couple others) don't necessarily scream future star either. We'll see.

[Bruno]

It looks like Isaiah Collier has played better since he came back from his hand injury. He should be back in the picture for the potential Raptors pick.

[Dejounte]

It looks like Isaiah Collier has played better since he came back from his hand injury. He should be back in the picture for the potential Raptors pick.

Yep, I’ve been consistent with this one as I’ve been with Matas. Collier’s the most skilled point guard coming out of this draft. People let a season’s worth of performance limit their perception of a player— scouting goes beyond that. It’s what they have as a total package. Collier might not prove to the masses that he’s a top 3 pick because of something as shallow as college stats or “getting far in the March Madness”, but his skills more than warrant it especially next to overhyped players like Sarr and Rissacher.

Collier with our Spurs pick should be the move if we don’t get Trae.

[exstatic]

Yep, I’ve been consistent with this one as I’ve been with Matas. Collier’s the most skilled point guard coming out of this draft. People let a season’s worth of performance limit their perception of a player— scouting goes beyond that. It’s what they have as a total package. Collier might not prove to the masses that he’s a top 3 pick because of something as shallow as college stats or “getting far in the March Madness”, but his skills more than warrant it especially next to overhyped players like Sarr and Rissacher.

Collier with our Spurs pick should be the move if we don’t get Trae.

Yeah, how dare we let a season’s worth of performance inform our preferences.

This is Collier. He’s elite at the rim, and drawing fouls. He fucking sucks as a PG, with a 1.3/1 asst/TO ratio. He doesn’t shoot well,either.

[Dejounte]

Yeah, how dare we let a season’s worth of performance inform our preferences.

This is Collier. He’s elite at the rim, and drawing fouls. He fucking sucks as a PG, with a 1.3/1 asst/TO ratio. He doesn’t shoot well,either.

You’re proving my point. You’re quick to judge a kid’s STATISTICAL performance which is dictated by his environment, which also has an effect on his developmental growth and therefore affects his stats — hence why I say it’s extremely shallow. You judge everything based on stats, we know this. We can agree to disagree and move on.

[Mr. Body]

Is the fact that he only shoots 66% from the free throw line a stat?

[Dejounte]

Is the fact that he only shoots 66% from the free throw line a stat?

Not sure. Let’s ask Tony Parker who shot 67% and 65% from the free throw in two of his years as a Spur. See how pointless this is?

[Mr. Body]

Not sure. Let’s ask Tony Parker who shot 67% and 65% from the free throw in two of his years as a Spur. See how pointless this is?

Your argument is that when he was doing many other things very well, Tony Parker shot suboptimally from the line two seasons out of eighteen?

The problem with Collier is that he's supposed to do two things well, pass and barrel his way to the free row line. He doesn't pass well and while he generates a fantastic amount of free thriws he shoots very poorly there.

I intend to watch his games now that he's back. His lines look pretty impressive. I didn't like him when I watched him before the injury. He looked kind of a mess.

[Dejounte]

Your argument is that when he was doing many other things very well, Tony Parker shot suboptimally from the line two seasons out of eighteen?

The problem with Collier is that he's supposed to do two things well, pass and barrel his way to the free row line. He doesn't pass well and while he generates a fantastic amount of free thriws he shoots very poorly there.

I intend to watch his games now that he's back. His lines look pretty impressive. I didn't like him when I watched him before the injury. He looked kind of a mess.

Collier does many things well that don’t get represented fairly in stats because of the lack of cohesiveness and talent on the team he’s playing on. This applies to a few other players whose talent exceeds what they’re able to show due to being handicapped by their team and their coach’s gameplan, not just Collier. These kids get to make one choice in their lives, and sometimes it’s a good one and sometimes it’s a bad one. This isn’t Durant being able to see what kind of talent there is on a team (or able to see team cohesiveness) before he joins them. In the same way we know Wemby could perform a lot better with teammates who could give him open looks or defend better so he wouldn’t be put in bad positions, that’s how it is for these kids.

[sfernald]

Your argument is that when he was doing many other things very well, Tony Parker shot suboptimally from the line two seasons out of eighteen?

The problem with Collier is that he's supposed to do two things well, pass and barrel his way to the free row line. He doesn't pass well and while he generates a fantastic amount of free thriws he shoots very poorly there.

I intend to watch his games now that he's back. His lines look pretty impressive. I didn't like him when I watched him before the injury. He looked kind of a mess.

Getting to the line is one skill no other spur seems to have tho. Might be useful.

[Mr. Body]

Getting to the line is one skill no other spur seems to have tho. Might be useful.

But... He doesn't make them.

[Dejounte]

But... He doesn't make them.

This now sounds like a strawman.

Did you know that there’s more to free throws than hitting free throws? When a player is able to get to the line, guess what else happens? Their bigs sit down because of foul trouble, disrupting the other team’s offense AND defense. Imagine if Embiid or Jokic had to sit down and Wemby could feast on their backup?

also, the same could be said about Sochan’s free throw shooting in year one vs year two. The point about Tony was to show players could improve their free throw shooting. Again, looking at college stats in a vacuum is a pointless exercise and is poor scouting.

[Mr. Body]

When a guard is so bad at the free throw line you get into territory where he'll get fouled down the stretch. What would you rather happen, Wemby on a lob or just foul Collier?

[scott]

Collier’s FT % in college would be more indicative that he might not develop into a real 3P threat in the NBA, but I’m not overly concerned that is mean’s he’ll be a poor career NBA FT shooter. We can look at Sochan for evidence of that.

Now, whether the 3P thing is a deal breaker, is another question. We already have a PG who does things pretty well other than shoot 3P.

[rascal]

But... He doesn't make them.

Sochan shot poorly from the FT line in college, sub .600, and you were all in on drafting him.

[The Truth #6]

It's hard for me to fully commit or fully count out any player in this draft. So I'm intrigued about Isaiah Collier.

[SOMA Spur]

With the prospect of us losing out on the Toronto pick this year (it's like around 50/50 we get it this year). Any interest in trading down to another team that has 2 picks in this years draft? Let's say Toronto jumps us and we get the #5 pick. Maybe give Portland a call for their #7+#13? or OKC for their #10+#11. Would we maybe be able to squeeze a third asset out of them (mediocre future first). Like most of you, I don't really trust our FO and would love for them to have 2 cracks at drafting a future starter this draft.

[Russ]

It's hard for me to fully commit or fully count out any player in this draft. So I'm intrigued about Isaiah Collier.

I've seen Collier twice in person and have been unimpressed (both by him and the team he leads).

That said, guys like Collier are the ones that can become bargains in the draft -- the guy who starts out top 5 or 10 in all the mocks then free falls to late 1st round or even lower.

Like GG Jackson last year -- a consensus top 10 early on then he goes #45 in the 2d round. (I was upset at the time that the Spurs passed twice on him at 33 and 44.)

GG Jackson just scored 27 in his last game in the NBA and he's still only 19.

Collier could be a bargain as long as you take advantage of his fall (if it happens).

His value point looks to be somewhere after the Toronto pick but well before GG Jackson territory.

[Harry Callahan]

Is GG Jackson a full time headache?

I've never seen GGJ play, but Memphis seems to have more than one headache right now on their roster. Unfortunately, their best player is one of them.

[exstatic]

Is GG Jackson a full time headache?

I've never seen GGJ play, but Memphis seems to have more than one headache right now on their roster. Unfortunately, their best player is one of them.

It’s the reason he wasn’t drafted earlier.

[duncan2150]

It's hard for me to fully commit or fully count out any player in this draft. So I'm intrigued about Isaiah Collier.

https://twitter.com/wilkomcv/status/1759217062105215238

[Russ]

https://twitter.com/wilkomcv/status/1759217062105215238

That bad USC team started the season ranked in the top 25. (Ranked 21st in 1st AP poll.)

[TD 21]

If they're not in position to select Risacher (and I'll guess they won't be), I'm thinking they might go Salaun.

The actualized version of him is basically a souped up Champagnie: Bigger, more athletic 3 and D big wing, who can cross match since they've seemingly decided Sochan is better off generally defending on the perimeter than interior.

If the Craptors 1st conveys, I still think Sheppard will be the primary target.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1759356028859125861

[objective]

I feel better about Sheppard's ability to hang in the NBA after watching Podziemski. Because he had some downright ugly defense clips in college interspersed with some defensive playmaking if I remember right, but the defense really put me off him

But he's been playing like 30 minutes a game and contributing, averaging 13, 7, and 7 in February

So I figure even an undersized short arm can hang if the iq is there and the ability to playmake with deflections, strips, and filling his role.

And Shepperd should be able to do that enough even though I figure he's 2 inches shorter

[duncan2150]

That bad USC team started the season ranked in the top 25. (Ranked 21st in 1st AP poll.)

Did you watch some of their games russ ? The spacing and their game plan was awful that's why he called them a bad usc team.

[Russ]

Did you watch some of their games russ ? The spacing and their game plan was awful that's why he called them a bad usc team.

I attended two of their games.

The point I was making is that USC had good talent, a good coach and, therefore, a high preseason ranking (were a 10 seed in last year's NCAA Tournament).

Their implosion this year likely doesn't fall upon their coach (three NCAA Tournament appearances in a row going into the season).

Could some of the unanticipated failure reflect upon the rookie point guard?

But, again, I think Collier could be one of the bargains of this draft (depending on how far he drops).

[Ariel]

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1759356028859125861
There's people here that claim this guy isn't skilled :rolleyes

[CGD]

^ I think he ends up going #1 unless the spurs get that pick. Even then they might pick him and trade him to ATL for Trae!

[TimmehC]

He's skilled but he's the worst kind of frontcourt tweener at the moment. Not a good enough shooter/playmaker to play the 4 on offense, lacks the strength to play the 5 defensively at an NBA level. He should be able to put on some muscle later and maybe become Gobert-lite, but he's probably going to struggle early on. Gobert-lite is definitely good enough for the top pick in this draft though.

[spursparker9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv3O5imfnhc

[Dejounte]

People are too easily impressed with a highlight reel :lmao

If Kai Jones was coming out of this draft, he’d be projected #1. His highlights were way better and would fool the same people here.

Each game I watch it’s the same— a Nic Claxton ceiling for this kid. Nice piece, just not one deserving of the hype surrounding him to be a top pick. Not a player you should throw a max at when his rookie contract ends (and those are the only kind you should draft with a top pick) or you’ve massively handicapped your team with a big whose skillset isn’t suited to thrive as a #1 or #2 option in today’s NBA.

[Pauleta14]

Autralian league looks really weak defensively compared to the French league. Forget about euroleague...

Might prepare for the spacing but not sure about all the defensive fundamentals

[SpursBills]

For a second round flyer or even trade up target at the end of the first round, I'd take a look at Colin Murray-Boyles. Can't shoot the 3, only ok FT shooter, but he's an undersized big with pretty elite steal and block percentages, BPM around 10, and he's basically the youngest or one of the youngest guys in the draft (turns 19 in June). Also with excellent rebounding numbers and a positive AST:TO ratio which is a very unusual combination for a guy so young. Also playing for an excellent SC team this year and a major contributor to their success. Seems like the kind of guy Memphis typically drafts who inexplicably succeeds.

EDIT:
Did a deeper dive on him. I'm a fan, he seems like he just knows how to play. Smart plays, good passing, positionally sound defense with good stance and a wide base. Put his measurements and numbers side by side against Draymond Green as a sophomore - it's uncanny how similar they are. As a bonus, the NBA is transitioning to taller mobile bigs (Wemby, Chet, Mobley, Sarr) and the wide body quick forward with a strong base is a good counter to these types of players.

[spurraider21]

Sarr wouldn't go #1 in most drafts, but this isn't most drafts. In a year where even the high end guys look like role players, Sarr fills a heck of a role as a rim protector with ++ mobility, length, and enough flashes of offensive skill to think there's something there other than just an athletic finisher. I'm still not convinced on the offense outside of transition, and his shooting looks pretty illusory compared to Wemby who came in with shooting questions.

If the spurs didnt have wemby right now, and had instead landed miller/scoot/thompson, we'd all be circling Sarr as the de facto spurs #1 option in the draft and not really thinking twice. Wemby's presence complicates it, but if the spurs landed #1 overall and didnt trade it, its not like Sarr would be an awful pick. We've already seen that Wemby gets gassed when he gets extended run, and its noticeable how much our defense drops off with him off the court. But if you had Sarr as a backup and not being expected to have a significant offensive load, thats a nice 1-2 at center, with hopes that they can one day coexist on the floor together.

Could do much worse in this draft

obviously, risacher fills a much more glaring need. if the decision makers feel there isnt a significant talent gap, sure, go ahead and prioritize need. but if they do their assessment and think sarr is the superior prospect who just doesnt fill as big a need, i would still take the better player given how barren the roster is, especially if they're going into the offseason with ideas of trading collins

i havent watched much of these guys yet other than game highlights that get posted here and on twitter, so im not going to pretend to have done any real study or analysis for any of these guys. i only really dive that deep for the nfl draft.

[Mr. Body]

Whoever drafts Sarr will essentially hope they're getting Evan Mobley. A very good defensive PF or possible C who can't shoot.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=alexandre-sarr--nicolas-claxton--evan-mobley

That's them before drafting with Claxton thrown in. Mobley is very good but it's hard for Cleveland to play him and Jared Allen together because neither can shoot, but they're doing well overall.

The problem with the Spurs isn't so much that we don't know if Sarr can be Evan Mobley, it's that we don't even know what kind of big man works with Wemby. He takes up and requires so much space. And then those high end rookie extensions are pretty bad if the fit isn't there. You definitely don't want to use a top pick on someone who has to come off the bench and even then his role is fairly limited. I don't even understand why Sarr doesn't even get twenty minutes a game. And young players who have come out of his league haven't exactly been great.

Wildly though, I actually think I believe in his upside more than Risacher. Something just feels off about ZR to me right now.

[scott]

This is such a tough draft… I lack guanine enthusiasm for any of these prospects, yet I still want that TOR pick to convey this year.

[Mr. Body]

This is such a tough draft… I lack guanine enthusiasm for any of these prospects, yet I still want that TOR pick to convey this year.

Last year 1-5 was much better, this year 6-10 or 12 imo is much better.

[scott]

Last year 1-5 was much better, this year 6-10 or 12 imo is much better.

What’s your current big board, say 1-12, right now?

[exstatic]

Last year 1-5 was much better, this year 6-10 or 12 imo is much better.

There’s a good chance that 2023’s 3-5 all bust. They were drafted as deer.

[Mr. Body]

What’s your current big board, say 1-12, right now?

Don't really know. These are not in particular order, grouped more by type

Sarr
Risacher
Topic

Holland
Buzelis

Dillingham
Sheppard

Williams
Walter

Filipowski
Knecht

Castle
Furphy

Salaun

[z0sa]

Spending some time this afternoon checking on the more popular ones, it seems obvious to me Topic should be the one we go after. The problem is, will he get any playing time at all under Pop, or will be more Tre Jones/Blake Wesley than we ever wanted while Topic plays spot minutes and doesn't see important time unless it's the last possible option a la George Hill in his first post-season.

Beno killed Pop's ability to coach backup PGs, imho. When he couldn't beat Detroit's trap in the 05 Finals, Pop had a mental breakdown and hasn't coached the backup PG position well since. Tanking this season only for a repeat of that behavior would be incredibly frustrating, still, if Trae Young don't happen, I say Topic is our best "build from the bottom" option to team with Wemby.

[Mr. Body]

If we draft Topic he'll run the team straightway imo.

[exstatic]

Spending some time this afternoon checking on the more popular ones, it seems obvious to me Topic should be the one we go after. The problem is, will he get any playing time at all under Pop, or will be more Tre Jones/Blake Wesley than we ever wanted while Topic plays spot minutes and doesn't see important time unless it's the last possible option a la George Hill in his first post-season.

Beno killed Pop's ability to coach backup PGs, imho. When he couldn't beat Detroit's trap in the 05 Finals, Pop had a mental breakdown and hasn't coached the backup PG position well since. Tanking this season only for a repeat of that behavior would be incredibly frustrating, still, if Trae Young don't happen, I say Topic is our best "build from the bottom" option to team with Wemby.

Beno’s problem was he arrived 10 years early. If he had been drafted in 2014, Pop would have let him shoot that pull up3, instead f benching him for it.

[spurraider21]

Spending some time this afternoon checking on the more popular ones, it seems obvious to me Topic should be the one we go after. The problem is, will he get any playing time at all under Pop, or will be more Tre Jones/Blake Wesley than we ever wanted while Topic plays spot minutes and doesn't see important time unless it's the last possible option a la George Hill in his first post-season.

Beno killed Pop's ability to coach backup PGs, imho. When he couldn't beat Detroit's trap in the 05 Finals, Pop had a mental breakdown and hasn't coached the backup PG position well since. Tanking this season only for a repeat of that behavior would be incredibly frustrating, still, if Trae Young don't happen, I say Topic is our best "build from the bottom" option to team with Wemby.
since then, we've had backup point guards like george hill, cory joseph, dejounte murray, and tre jones

i like topic in theory, but think he needs to prove himself against euroleague competition before you can really justify taking him top 3-5. ive said a few times that if you are going to draft a guy who isnt a good shooter, you need to ask if they are really specail somewhere else. think he fits that criteria

[exstatic]

since then, we've had backup point guards like george hill, cory joseph, dejounte murray, and tre jones

i like topic in theory, but think he needs to prove himself against euroleague competition before you can really justify taking him top 3-5. ive said a few times that if you are going to draft a guy who isnt a good shooter, you need to ask if they are really specail somewhere else. think he fits that criteria

He also has a strong shooting signal with his 88% FTs. The 3 isn’t as important in Europe as it is here.

[baseline bum]

Spending some time this afternoon checking on the more popular ones, it seems obvious to me Topic should be the one we go after. The problem is, will he get any playing time at all under Pop, or will be more Tre Jones/Blake Wesley than we ever wanted while Topic plays spot minutes and doesn't see important time unless it's the last possible option a la George Hill in his first post-season.

Beno killed Pop's ability to coach backup PGs, imho. When he couldn't beat Detroit's trap in the 05 Finals, Pop had a mental breakdown and hasn't coached the backup PG position well since. Tanking this season only for a repeat of that behavior would be incredibly frustrating, still, if Trae Young don't happen, I say Topic is our best "build from the bottom" option to team with Wemby.

Topic could be anywhere from #1 to #10 on my board since we have only seen him in the ABA. I really need to see if he can survive in Euroleague without a three point shot before I'd be comfortable drafting him to run the offense here. A game and a half in Euroleague isn't enough for me to know whether to want him or not. Though every other prospect has huge question marks too. Eg could Sarr play next to Wemby or is he just redundant? Can Williams three point shooting percentage hold up when he'll be shooting them a lot more here? Does Risascher have the upside to draft #1 or #2? Is Dillingham too small to play in the NBA? Is Sheppard athletic enough? Is Buzelis' recent shooting in G-League just a streak or is it who he actually is? And so on. Though I pretty much have written off Walter and Holland, don't want either.

[Mr. Body]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPN7dAQqxRo&t=6s

Someone posted the highlights to Isaiah Collier's last game, which are a crazy watch. He's like a faster, bigger Scoot Henderson in some ways, just bullying poor Cody Williams around like a ragdoll, who looked like a high schooler called up to experience a college game, but then the shot looks wild and some of his passes, even in highlights, are just wildly off. When I watched him a while back I hated his effort on defense. Maybe that's improved.

[scott]

If we did draft Collier to pair with Vassell, Holt Jr. should get on the phone with Dole Pineapple about a stake in the team, or at least a title sponsorship.

[The Truth #6]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPN7dAQqxRo&t=6s

Someone posted the highlights to Isaiah Collier's last game, which are a crazy watch. He's like a faster, bigger Scoot Henderson in some ways, just bullying poor Cody Williams around like a ragdoll, who looked like a high schooler called up to experience a college game, but then the shot looks wild and some of his passes, even in highlights, are just wildly off. When I watched him a while back I hated his effort on defense. Maybe that's improved.

That's a good description of those highlights. Banking three pointers, sloppy alley oops. But there's something there. Just not sure if Pop would be the best fit for him. High boom/bust potential already. But even more so under Pop maybe?

[exstatic]

That's a good description of those highlights. Banking three pointers, sloppy alley oops. But there's something there. Just not sure if Pop would be the best fit for him. High boom/bust potential already. But even more so under Pop maybe?

He’s 6’4”, makes a living at the rim, and doesn’t pass or shoot particularly well. Not even sure the rim scoring would translate to the NBA, and it will take YEARS before he gets the calls he now gets at USC.

[TD 21]

Definitely not ruling Topic out, but I get the sense this could be Sengun redux in that he'll be thought of as the Spurs stereotypical target, but is not what they're looking for.

In their ideal world, I think they want a generalist as their lead guard. Someone who's not the most dynamic, but good enough at everything and not heliocentric.

Maybe they make an exception for an established star, but investing a potential top 3-5 pick in a sub par shooter, who can't defend at the point of attack means they'll need to find a wing who can do so and Vassell defending up a position more often.

[The Truth #6]

He’s 6’4”, makes a living at the rim, and doesn’t pass or shoot particularly well. Not even sure the rim scoring would translate to the NBA, and it will take YEARS before he gets the calls he now gets at USC.

Thank you for clarifying. I was not aware of those insights when I said he has a high bust potential.

[exstatic]

Thank you for clarifying. I was not aware of those insights when I said he has a high bust potential.

I was agreeing with you, not arguing. It’s called an amplification post.

[Mr. Body]

Definitely not ruling Topic out, but I get the sense this could be Sengun redux in that he'll be thought of as the Spurs stereotypical target, but is not what they're looking for.

In their ideal world, I think they want a generalist as their lead guard. Someone who's not the most dynamic, but good enough at everything and not heliocentric.

Maybe they make an exception for an established star, but investing a potential top 3-5 pick in a sub par shooter, who can't defend at the point of attack means they'll need to find a wing who can do so and Vassell defending up a position more often.

Geez, I hope not. Sengun was a MASSIVE miss by the front office. Truly a fuck up of the ages. Fortunately it lead to the lucky-ass lottery draw of Wembanyama -- Sengun would have pushed us up the board at least a little.

Topic will still be 18 on draft night. He has a ton of development to do. If they feel he can develop a shot and not play stinky defense, he probably has the highest upside of the three internationals projected to go high (Sarr, Risacher). But to me, if we have to pick one of them, he's the guy as he can actually run a team and projects more than a narrow role. (Despite a powerful need of a small forward.)

Despite that, he only has a usage rate of 24% right now, which means he's not 'heliocentric' and suggests he gets the offense moving not just by his direct actions but if he can't shoot then it's hard to play him off-ball.

[exstatic]

Geez, I hope not. Sengun was a MASSIVE miss by the front office. Truly a fuck up of the ages. Fortunately it lead to the lucky-ass lottery draw of Wembanyama -- Sengun would have pushed us up the board at least a little.

Topic will still be 18 on draft night. He has a ton of development to do. If they feel he can develop a shot and not play stinky defense, he probably has the highest upside of the three internationals projected to go high (Sarr, Risacher). But to me, if we have to pick one of them, he's the guy as he can actually run a team and projects more than a narrow role. (Despite a powerful need of a small forward.)

Despite that, he only has a usage rate of 24% right now, which means he's not 'heliocentric' and suggests he gets the offense moving not just by his direct actions but if he can't shoot then it's hard to play him off-ball.

The weird thing is that he shoots 3s better in possession of the ball rather than off of catch and shoot. That’s opposite of the norm. I still feel that he will become not just a good, but a very good 3 point shooter, like 40%. The long ball just isn’t important in the euro game.

[z0sa]

since then, we've had backup point guards like george hill, cory joseph, dejounte murray, and tre jones

i like topic in theory, but think he needs to prove himself against euroleague competition before you can really justify taking him top 3-5. ive said a few times that if you are going to draft a guy who isnt a good shooter, you need to ask if they are really specail somewhere else. think he fits that criteria

George Hill was mismanaged for years, imo. Pop's hand was forced when Dallas IIRC was going to sweep us in the first round. Before that, Hill had only played spot minutes in "real" games.

Cory Joseph's a bit better but there wasn't any pressure to coach him into something that's hitting all the touchstones for potential growth. He's a solid guy, for sure, but I feel like it's a neutral take on Pop's coaching acument.

Dejounte, I'm on the fence about. Has he grown, sure, but it was clear he would need to grow into a big role with TP entering his last days. That's not really a backup PG in the traditional sense.

Today's situation would be different, because Tre Jones now has a bunch of games as a Spur under his belt. He's also been mismanaged, at least this season. He should have been starting, even though he's a backup PG. So again, Pop messed up with his backup PG (in this case, by keeping him there rather than starting him).

I also remember Van Exel underachieving, for instance. He was already in "savvy vet" status back when we grabbed him hoping for a repeat, but still, somehow he ended up just not being good when it mattered. Whether that was on Pop is obviously debatable, but I just feel like it's a trend that, while not exactly "f" grade level as much of this season's been, it's barely passing. Maybe C or even C-.

Pop is - or was - way better at developing/motivating starting PGs, (which is where I'd put DJM, for example) not really backup PGs.

as for the euroleague kicker, yeah I definitely agree. But he's got all the physical tools and already a good passer. Three point shooting can be worked on and improved. This draft is honestly very mid from even my layman's eye so I'm just calling it like I see it, which obviously ain't pro/scout status.

[The Truth #6]

Has Topic returned to play yet?

[z0sa]

Topic could be anywhere from #1 to #10 on my board since we have only seen him in the ABA. I really need to see if he can survive in Euroleague without a three point shot before I'd be comfortable drafting him to run the offense here. A game and a half in Euroleague isn't enough for me to know whether to want him or not. Though every other prospect has huge question marks too.

100%. I feel need someone with all-star level passing potential, at the bare minimum. That's Topic so that's who I went with.


Eg could Sarr play next to Wemby or is he just redundant?

Sarr is definitely my number 2 pick. If Topic isn't the guy, Sarr should be imho. I'd kill for another Twin Towers, AND he's French. the only thing keeping me from ranking him #1 for these Spurs is, will another Twin Towers be feasible in today's NBA? Our problem, more than anything, is getting good shots on offense/avoiding dry spells, especially when Wemby is struggling. I think Sarr is definitely going to have a career in the NBA, but clogging the paint already works wonders on our shit team. Wemby is the GOAT defender already imho, just needs a bit more experience - and we still get our asses busted night in and night out by the opposing team's three point shooters.


Can Williams three point shooting percentage hold up when he'll be shooting them a lot more here?

We definitely NEED three point shooting, and he's got a sweet stroke. but no way does anybody but the absolute S+ tier elite in the League shoot 50%+. Furthermore, I don't trust our squad to get him the ball in his spots at all. Even McDermott couldn't hold 50% here. The rest of his game appears to be like a lesser Devin Vassell. I like his eurostep but his speed doesn't jump out at me or whatever at all. I'd pass in all honesty.


Does Risascher have the upside to draft #1 or #2?

Upside, perhaps. But what I'm looking for is a passer, not another wing scorer. We SHOULD have that ish covered, especially we're not making a major trade and "building/growing" via development and the draft. Vassell, Keldon, and Sochan all are better than this dude right now, imho. They lack his size but that's about it. Too raw for what we need, though that's pretty rich considering I want Topic, I realize. :lol

Risacher looks awesome but his role is going to coincide too hard with our other wings who will already be entering major contract territory.


Is Dillingham too small to play in the NBA? Is Sheppard athletic enough? Is Buzelis' recent shooting in G-League just a streak or is it who he actually is? And so on. Though I pretty much have written off Walter and Holland, don't want either.

Dillingham isn't too small, imho. he's Trae Young's size or maybe even bigger if he's truly 6'2. but one thing you can't teach in the NBA IS size. He's intriguing but I'm leaning with Topic because he's bigger and SHOULD be able to QB the team better from the gate (if he gets the chance). That said, Dillingham looks like he'll have an NBA career that's quality, so tough choice there.

Sheppard I actually haven't checked out yet, will do so a bit later. Buzelis REALLY surprised me in the rising stars game. He's another guy who it might be silly to sleep on. This draft kinda sucks in that regard, you're very correct, dude lol. it feels like it's a total crapshoot. The more I research the more I'm divided, but we need a man who can take care of Wemby, Vassell and Sochan and get them (especially Wemby) easy buckets. That's probably Topic out of all these guys - in my humble opinion.

[Bruno]

espn (Givony and Woo) and theathletic (Vecenie) have released a mock draft today. Both have Risacher at #1 and Sarr at #2 but are quite different after that. For example Dilligham is #3 on espn and #14 on theathletic.

Compiling both mock draft and adding with what Vecenie is saying in his draft comments, we can make some tiers:

Tier 1:
Risacher
Sarr

Tier 2:
Cody Williams
Topic

Tier 2.5 (these players' projection varies a lot, from 5 to 25 for some of them):
Dillingham
Buzelis
Ja'Kobe Walter
Ron Holland
Reed Sheppard
Stephon Castle

Tier 3 (second half of the lottery):
Salaün
Filipowski
Clingan
Dalton Knecht
Isaiah Collier

[Bruno]

For reference
https://www.nba.com/news/nba-draft-faq

Here are the key dates for the entire 2024 Draft process:

April 27: NBA Early Entry Eligibility Deadline (11:59 p.m. ET)
May 12: NBA Draft Lottery 2024 presented by State Farm
May 13-19: NBA Combine (Chicago, IL)
June 16: NBA Draft Early Entry Entrant Withdrawal Deadline (5 p.m. ET)
June 26: NBA Draft 2024 presented by State Farm (First Round)
June 27: NBA Draft 2024 presented by State Farm (Second Round)


With the new CBA, the NBA combine will be mandatory. We will have measurements for all the top prospects except the ones that are still playing in their leagues (Topic, Risacher and maybe Salaün).

[Mr. Body]

While I believe in his shooting percentage (more or less), Cody Williams only gets up two a game (per 31 minutes). I'm sure that can change, but will his accuracy suffer? Risacher puts up 3.4 in only 23 minutes.

Sheppard puts up 4.2 threes in 28.4 minutes at an absurd percentage. I actually believe his absurd percentage (more or less). He picks his moments, though, and I'd love to see his catch-and-shoot and guarded splits.

Dillingham gets up 4.4 threes in 23.3 minutes and hits at a still pretty absurd .448 rate. He had a three game span where he went 2-12 and games where he's like 0-2 or 0-4 but has more games where he hits really well, although he's been roped in a bit lately. Unlike Sheppard, I feel like he gets his in multiple ways.

[spurraider21]

While I believe in his shooting percentage (more or less), Cody Williams only gets up two a game (per 31 minutes). I'm sure that can change, but will his accuracy suffer? Risacher puts up 3.4 in only 23 minutes.

Sheppard puts up 4.2 threes in 28.4 minutes at an absurd percentage. I actually believe his absurd percentage (more or less). He picks his moments, though, and I'd love to see his catch-and-shoot and guarded splits.

Dillingham gets up 4.4 threes in 23.3 minutes and hits at a still pretty absurd .448 rate. He had a three game span where he went 2-12 and games where he's like 0-2 or 0-4 but has more games where he hits really well, although he's been roped in a bit lately. Unlike Sheppard, I feel like he gets his in multiple ways.
yeah the volume is one thing, and when you combine it with the longer nba 3 point line, its not something you can lean on much. ive read people point out that castle's 3pt% in the last 10 games has been at 40%, but on similarly low volume

[baseline bum]

100%. I feel need someone with all-star level passing potential, at the bare minimum. That's Topic so that's who I went with.



Sarr is definitely my number 2 pick. If Topic isn't the guy, Sarr should be imho. I'd kill for another Twin Towers, AND he's French. the only thing keeping me from ranking him #1 for these Spurs is, will another Twin Towers be feasible in today's NBA? Our problem, more than anything, is getting good shots on offense/avoiding dry spells, especially when Wemby is struggling. I think Sarr is definitely going to have a career in the NBA, but clogging the paint already works wonders on our shit team. Wemby is the GOAT defender already imho, just needs a bit more experience - and we still get our asses busted night in and night out by the opposing team's three point shooters.



We definitely NEED three point shooting, and he's got a sweet stroke. but no way does anybody but the absolute S+ tier elite in the League shoot 50%+. Furthermore, I don't trust our squad to get him the ball in his spots at all. Even McDermott couldn't hold 50% here. The rest of his game appears to be like a lesser Devin Vassell. I like his eurostep but his speed doesn't jump out at me or whatever at all. I'd pass in all honesty.



Upside, perhaps. But what I'm looking for is a passer, not another wing scorer. We SHOULD have that ish covered, especially we're not making a major trade and "building/growing" via development and the draft. Vassell, Keldon, and Sochan all are better than this dude right now, imho. They lack his size but that's about it. Too raw for what we need, though that's pretty rich considering I want Topic, I realize. :lol

Risacher looks awesome but his role is going to coincide too hard with our other wings who will already be entering major contract territory.



Dillingham isn't too small, imho. he's Trae Young's size or maybe even bigger if he's truly 6'2. but one thing you can't teach in the NBA IS size. He's intriguing but I'm leaning with Topic because he's bigger and SHOULD be able to QB the team better from the gate (if he gets the chance). That said, Dillingham looks like he'll have an NBA career that's quality, so tough choice there.

Sheppard I actually haven't checked out yet, will do so a bit later. Buzelis REALLY surprised me in the rising stars game. He's another guy who it might be silly to sleep on. This draft kinda sucks in that regard, you're very correct, dude lol. it feels like it's a total crapshoot. The more I research the more I'm divided, but we need a man who can take care of Wemby, Vassell and Sochan and get them (especially Wemby) easy buckets. That's probably Topic out of all these guys - in my humble opinion.

The Spurs don't really have other wings I give much a shit about the new guy getting in the way of tbh. Vassell hasn't proved to be that guy yet and Keldon has proved he isn't. Only guy I care about someone getting in the way of is Victor so I'm not very high on drafting Sarr and would probably trade the pick for a quality veteran if Sarr is still on the board when the Spurs are picking. Though there are no shooting guards anyways other than Walters who I do not want. I don't think drafting a ballhandler is any more a necessity than drafting someone who can shoot and score, especially since the Spurs can probably get Tyus Jones for a Vassell like contract to run the PG here. Sucks that Toronto's likely going to keep that pick so can't draft both a swing and a PG.

[baseline bum]

yeah the volume is one thing, and when you combine it with the longer nba 3 point line, its not something you can lean on much. ive read people point out that castle's 3pt% in the last 10 games has been at 40%, but on similarly low volume

Yeah Williams is pretty high risk, just like Buzelis. But everybody's high risk in this draft other than maybe Risacher.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah Williams is pretty high risk, just like Buzelis. But everybody's high risk in this draft other than maybe Risacher.

Yeah, they all have risks, but I feel pretty good about a number of them - at least those in the range of the Taylor Hendrickses and Jarace Walkers last year.

Cody Williams, just dunno. On the one hand, even in the last few games when his turnovers shot through the roof (he's weak and fairly slow, having to push-off to get anywhere on good defenders) his shooting efficiency has been really high. Like, when he shoots, he often makes. (Except free throws, although that's an issue for almost all these guys.) He has the length to be a good defender, but isn't yet. And then he just doesn't do anything else. Okay assists, few rebounds. I think he got slotted way too high on the back of his brother and will need to move down again.