2024 NBA Draft Thread

[Ariel]

I saw this from a random Hornets journalist about Ron Holland, and it really made me doubt that he can become a good shooter.
https://x.com/british_buzz/status/1792504438923366542
1 out of 5 of your 3s being airballed/bricked means your shot is fricked.
Looks like the third Thompson twin, last year I took a look at some of their games on YouTube (actual OTE games, not highlights) and this was one of the things that socked me the most, how bad their misses were, which is painfully obvious now in the NBA. Personally I wouldn't touch Holland, and this is the minimum work the FO should do before drafting someone expecting his shooting to improve... there aren't that many prospects and they haven't shot that many threes not to look at every single one of them, if their misses are awful then just pass, not worth the trouble.

[CGD]

I think Dillingham makes a lot more sense for Houston that we originally gave credit for. If Amen is a wing, then Dilly would be a very nice fit behind FVV for a year before taking the reins.

I agree. I’ve seen more takes on Dilly/Houston recently, which stuck me as odd at first. But the more I think of it he’s the ideal super sub/chNge of pace guy for them.

[CGD]

I saw this from a random Hornets journalist about Ron Holland, and it really made me doubt that he can become a good shooter.
https://x.com/british_buzz/status/1792504438923366542
1 out of 5 of your 3s being airballed/bricked means your shot is fricked.

It’s not just he’s a bad shooter, but the rumblings is that the shot looks outright broken. Pass, we already have Jeremy.

[mo7888]

It’s not just he’s a bad shooter, but the rumblings is that the shot looks outright broken. Pass, we already have Jeremy.

It's why he isn't top 10 on my Spurs board and 15 on my overall board. I believe his shot is broken.

[Mr. Body]

I saw this from a random Hornets journalist about Ron Holland, and it really made me doubt that he can become a good shooter.
https://x.com/british_buzz/status/1792504438923366542
1 out of 5 of your 3s being airballed/bricked means your shot is fricked.

Matas's splits look pretty similar.

[Bruno]

That rebound total is actually quite encouraging though. What is the game like in France in terms of the physicality on the boards? If I remember correctly, Wemby was a sub 10rpg player for Mets92, right? He obviously turned that into 10.6 rpg his rookie year. If Risacher is a reliable rebounder, that adds another dimension to his game that the Spurs actually are in quite need of (we were in the top half of the league in team rpg, but bottom third in contested reb %)

Risacher hasn't struck me as an especially good or bad rebounder when I saw him play. His rebounding numbers over the season are quite low but it's logical given that he spend a lot of time on the perimeter on both end of the court.

Regarding a France/NBA rebounding comparison, I'm not sure but I would say rebounding with FIBA rules is more centered around bigmen than in NBA because there isn't a defensive 3 seconds rule in FIBA.

[Mr. Body]

Amen and Ausar shot .138 and .186 from three this season.

Just astounding.

[baseline bum]

Dilly looks like the best natural basketball talent. He will slice and dice up opposing defenses, even nba ones. Kyrie, Iverson, Isiah Thomas (the little one). He will be an amazing offensive force and probably the perfect complement to Wemby.

I'm one of the biggest Dillingham fans on the board but he is nowhere close to the ballhandler Kyrie is or was at that age. If he was he'd be an almost guarantee to go #1.

[CorrectCrusader]

Matas's splits look pretty similar.

Matas bad misses were way lower

[Vienna]

Trae Young and Allen Iverson. Ja Morant and Mike Conley weigh 175 lbs. Even Dejounte came into the league at 162 lbs, though he's filled out to 180 since then.

10 lbs are quite a lot in that weight class. and Dillingham isn‘t the athlete Conley or Morant are (or was in Conley‘s case). Conley is very small, but he has a plus 7“ wingspan and he was a pretty strong guy already at the draft. (could jump out of the gym and was super fast). Dejounte was 170lbs and obviously he was much taller plus some spider arms.

Dillingham is small, leight and has no lenght to compensate for that. I can‘t see who he might compare to, who was a success story.

[Mr. Body]

I'm one of the biggest Dillingham fans on the board but he is nowhere close to the ballhandler Kyrie is or was at that age. If he was he'd be an almost guarantee to go #1.

Eh... Dillingham's ballhandling is much better than 'nowhere close' to Kyrie. Dillingham's handles are absolutely superb and elite for his age.

[Mr. Body]

I don't see any reason to weep for ten pounds difference in small guards. What, are they going to be picking up Jokic or Embiid on a roll to the hoop? Reed Sheppard isn't going to be having any different luck if he's slightly bigger. He might have trouble against a big guard like Brunson, like maybe posting him up, but you're going to have that problem anyway. It's another measurement that's not a big deal once it's past a certain point. No one here could say what Jason Tatum's wingspan is because it doesn't matter.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

The Dillingham to Houston at 3 thing is interesting. His fit seems odd with Sengun and Green, both whom are volume scorers and need the ball in their hands. Sheppard seems like a better complementary piece as a catch and shoot spot up floor spreader, or even Clingan since they need size up front depending on Adams health. I guess it somewhat depends on their view of Green. He put up some insane numbers for a stretch after Sengun got hurt and he's only 21 years old, but still... how much do you trust that guy and what kind of extension are they going to drop on him? If they don't see him as a long term piece, then Dillingham makes more sense.

[CorrectCrusader]

I don't see any reason to weep for ten pounds difference in small guards. What, are they going to be picking up Jokic or Embiid on a roll to the hoop? Reed Sheppard isn't going to be having any different luck if he's slightly bigger. He might have trouble against a big guard like Brunson, like maybe posting him up, but you're going to have that problem anyway. It's another measurement that's not a big deal once it's past a certain point. No one here could say what Jason Tatum's wingspan is because it doesn't matter.

The biggest question mark on defense is the ability to go over screens at a well enough rate. If Dillingham can not be a complete dead end in that, Victor won't have to worry about consistently going against 2 players.

[duncan2150]

I'm not surprised if that's true about Dillingham. I think he's going to shred workouts. I wouldn't even be surprised if the supposed Wright grimace during the lottery was due to fear Washington or the Rockets take him first. Dillingham on the Rockets would be a horror show for us. I highly doubt it but it's just my feeling i see the spurs interested in dillingham but less than sarr, risacher or topic for example

[Bruno]

What puzzled me about Dillingham weight is that last summer he was reportedly at 172 lbs.
https://x.com/Wildcat_wave/status/1697020809313755520
For reminder, he weighted 164.2lbs at the combine

[Vienna]

I don't see any reason to weep for ten pounds difference in small guards. What, are they going to be picking up Jokic or Embiid on a roll to the hoop? Reed Sheppard isn't going to be having any different luck if he's slightly bigger. He might have trouble against a big guard like Brunson, like maybe posting him up, but you're going to have that problem anyway. It's another measurement that's not a big deal once it's past a certain point. No one here could say what Jason Tatum's wingspan is because it doesn't matter.

if weight and strength was that meaningless for guards anyway, the NBA would be full of 6 foot guards under 170. but it ain‘t.

[duncan2150]

I think the question for dillingham is the D, even if he's small he'll be good on offense. I listened to a pod who labelled him as a bad defender who'll never be an average one. will the spurs take the flyer for the offensive side, we'll see if he's there at 4

[Mr. Body]

The Dillingham to Houston at 3 thing is interesting. His fit seems odd with Sengun and Green, both whom are volume scorers and need the ball in their hands. Sheppard seems like a better complementary piece as a catch and shoot spot up floor spreader, or even Clingan since they need size up front depending on Adams health. I guess it somewhat depends on their view of Green. He put up some insane numbers for a stretch after Sengun got hurt and he's only 21 years old, but still... how much do you trust that guy and what kind of extension are they going to drop on him? If they don't see him as a long term piece, then Dillingham makes more sense.

My assumption in thinking Dillingham to Rox is that Jalen Green is getting moved. I'm not swayed by late-season explosions. Like last year everyone thought Shaeden Sharpe was going to be godly because he was turning out. Yeah, he was hurt this season, but he's still the same lazy, non-winning player he always was. Green won't change. I mean, he might, but he won't.

Rockets boards seem to be all over Reed Sheppard. I think they're going to try to trade down.

[Mr. Body]

The biggest question mark on defense is the ability to go over screens at a well enough rate. If Dillingham can not be a complete dead end in that, Victor won't have to worry about consistently going against 2 players.

This is where RD is potentially improvable. He's very quick and does get around screens. It's the rest where he's garbage -- disengages, starts ball-watching, bad rotations. But he has the quickness to navigate screens, plus his shiftiness with the ball also helps here. He's very light and quick with his direction changes. You know who does die on screens? The supposedly much better on defense Reed Sheppard.

[Mr. Body]

if weight and strength was that meaningless for guards anyway, the NBA would be full of 6 foot guards under 170. but it ain‘t.

I didn't say it's meaningless. Please, for God's sake, read what people write. I said that after a certain point the small variations don't matter a whole lot.

Funnily enough, there was a good analysis I think on nba_draft where the guy sifted through years of drafts. Centers who are drafted high in the lottery have a very high chance of busting. The smaller a player selected high the lottery? Higher chance of hitting. (High lottery meaning around top 8 picks or so.)

What's crazy is that this is right. Men over seven feet tall, or thereabouts, are about 1 in 6 chance of playing in the NBA. The likelihood of those guys actually being good at basketball is pretty slim, given the size of the population.

But then the smaller you get, the wider the population. Which means that if you're getting drafted into the NBA, the chances are that you're very good at what you do. Basically, no one's taking fliers on 6'1" dudes. They're taking fliers on 6'8" athletes who don't know how to play, or 7'0" guys who are probably even worse players.

[baseline bum]

Eh... Dillingham's ballhandling is much better than 'nowhere close' to Kyrie. Dillingham's handles are absolutely superb and elite for his age.

Irving's handles were NBA level elite in high school and he might be the best ballhandler in the history of the league.

[scott]

Looks like the third Thompson twin, last year I took a look at some of their games on YouTube (actual OTE games, not highlights) and this was one of the things that socked me the most, how bad their misses were, which is painfully obvious now in the NBA. Personally I wouldn't touch Holland, and this is the minimum work the FO should do before drafting someone expecting his shooting to improve... there aren't that many prospects and they haven't shot that many threes not to look at every single one of them, if their misses are awful then just pass, not worth the trouble.

This is an interesting deep dive. I wonder how this compares with someone like Sochan (who often misses badly as well, and who I'm not looking to replicate on this team as far as shooting goes).

[LeBowen]

Picking any perimeter players with a non-existant shouldn't happen again. We got plenty of those already.
As already mentioned Thompson twins were far better prospects than anyone in this draft and would probably both go in top3 and yet neither one of them has looked good.

Modern NBA is all about shooting and if your shot isn't respected being great in every other aspect of the game won't help.
With that being said, there are obviously some prospect that can have their shot fixed, it's up to PATFO to decide which ones.

[Ariel]

The biggest question mark on defense is the ability to go over screens at a well enough rate. If Dillingham can not be a complete dead end in that, Victor won't have to worry about consistently going against 2 players.
https://youtu.be/51SOz3uBaE0?t=289

"My defense lacks at time but I feel like when I actually give effort and I know the game plan then I really know what to do.
Sometimes I don't know the game plan so I'm halfway going, but I feel like when I actually know the game plan and everything I'm a great defender when it comes to being on the ball
Looks like he isn´t used to trying, towards the end he at least he played like he cared, if the Spurs feel like they can get him 100% committed then he can be a net positive, otherwise it's going to be rough.

[scott]

https://youtu.be/51SOz3uBaE0?t=289
"My defense lacks at time but I feel like when I actually give effort and I know the game plan then I really know what to do.
Sometimes I don't know the game plan so I'm halfway going, but I feel like when I actually know the game plan and everything I'm a great defender when it comes to being on the ball
Looks like he isn´t used to trying, towards the end he at least he played like he cared, if the Spurs feel like they can get him 100% committed then he can be a net positive, otherwise it's going to be rough.

I liked his effort in the late season games of his I watched, but what a strange thing to say. "I don't always try and I don't always know what I'm supposed to do" is not exactly the kind of admission that likely appeals to the Spurs.

[Mr. Body]

Irving's handles were NBA level elite in high school and he might be the best ballhandler in the history of the league.

Yes, and Dillingham's were elite in high school and he is not far behind. I mean, have you watched him? Or just a Kyrie jock rider.

[scott]

Yes, and Dillingham's were elite in high school and he is not far behind. I mean, have you watched him? Or just a Kyrie jock rider.

lol @ white knighting for Robert Dillingham and having the nerve to call someone else a jock rider

[Mr. Body]

lol @ white knighting for Robert Dillingham and having the nerve to call someone else a jock rider

I've been very consistent in discussing Dillingham's problems. This choad is just bringing up Kyrie for no apparent reason. I mean, yes, Kyrie is better? Yeah? What does that prove?

[Seventyniner]

I liked his effort in the late season games of his I watched, but what a strange thing to say. "I don't always try and I don't always know what I'm supposed to do" is not exactly the kind of admission that likely appeals to the Spurs.

:pop: Sounds like someone who has gotten over himself. My kind of guy.

[Ariel]

I liked his effort in the late season games of his I watched, but what a strange thing to say. "I don't always try and I don't always know what I'm supposed to do" is not exactly the kind of admission that likely appeals to the Spurs.
I agree, but to me he sounds like an immature 19 y.o. kid who lacked proper coaching and went through a bunch of different programs where winning wasn't really the goal and no one really instilled good habits or pushed him to improve.

If you watch the rest of the interview he says he'd go anywhere and do whatever teams ask of him, and since he was pulled off some games at Kentucky there was a shift in his attitude at least, it's going to take work but I'm willing to be a bit lenient here given the whole context and give him the benefit of the doubt,.

[Russ]

I liked his effort in the late season games of his I watched, but what a strange thing to say. "I don't always try and I don't always know what I'm supposed to do" is not exactly the kind of admission that likely appeals to the Spurs.

During one of ESPN's marathon coverage sessions of the draft combine, one of the commentators whom the others pointed out had called many Kentucky games, and whose name escapes me, said something like "it wasn't so much that Dillingham was a bad defender, it's that he didn't even try."

[Mugen]

Yes, and Dillingham's were elite in high school and he is not far behind. I mean, have you watched him? Or just a Kyrie jock rider.

Kyrie has probably top 5 handles all time, probably top 3. That's like objectively true even if you're not a fan of his.

Saying Dilly is not far behind when most scouts don't even have him as a Top 5 lock in this shit draft is nuts tbh :lol

[baseline bum]

Yes, and Dillingham's were elite in high school and he is not far behind. I mean, have you watched him? Or just a Kyrie jock rider.

Yeah I have watched him, he's by far my favorite player in this class. No I don't think he has a GOAT handle or at worst top 5 handle all time like Kyrie does just because he has the best handles in this draft.

[baseline bum]

I've been very consistent in discussing Dillingham's problems. This choad is just bringing up Kyrie for no apparent reason. I mean, yes, Kyrie is better? Yeah? What does that prove?

Fuck off, I was responding to this post bringing up Irving. Do you even read the posts you respond to?


Dilly looks like the best natural basketball talent. He will slice and dice up opposing defenses, even nba ones. Kyrie, Iverson, Isiah Thomas (the little one). He will be an amazing offensive force and probably the perfect complement to Wemby.

[spurraider21]

I need help filling out this list

List of things Buzelis does better than Sochan:

1) a bit of a springier athlete while weighing less and having less length/strength

[Leetonidas]

Dillingham's handles aren't far behind Kyrie's? You son of a bitch, I'm in

[RC_Drunkford]

I don't think Dillingham's weight is concerning. The Spurs just gonna put him in the weight room to put on 10-20 lbs of muscle and it'll help with his finishing at the rim. That's like the easiest thing to fix when it comes to prospects.

[The Truth #6]

Amen and Ausar shot .138 and .186 from three this season.

Just astounding.

I always knew Ausar was the better shooter.

[rascal]

I don't think Dillingham's weight is concerning. The Spurs just gonna put him in the weight room to put on 10-20 lbs of muscle and it'll help with his finishing at the rim. That's like the easiest thing to fix when it comes to prospects.

They aren't drafting Dillingham. The Spurs will draft Topic or Castle before Dillingham.

[PhantomDashCam]

I need help filling out this list

List of things Buzelis does better than Sochan:

1) a bit of a springier athlete while weighing less and having less length/strength

It's a fair point honestly and my answers will unlikely suffice as an effective rebuttal.

I'm buying into the theoretical of the shot (less of a load up and hitch than Sochan), the weak-side shot blocking/roaming and pressures of being a highly touted prospect and being 'the guy' (at times) on a professional team.

1790154903245205930

1659286704962904066

[sfernald]

I think Dillingham makes a lot more sense for Houston that we originally gave credit for. If Amen is a wing, then Dilly would be a very nice fit behind FVV for a year before taking the reigns.

No prob, just take Castle or even Sheppard. There’s no telling there who will end up better honestly. It’s a vitual crapshoot.

[rascal]

If you want to see a Wemby dynasty you better be rooting for losses next year for the Spurs and Atlanta to stink to land two top five picks and get some high end talent on this roster.

There are several players next year with all star upside potential. Current Spurs and the players drafted this year don't have that upside, no stars on the current Spurs outside of Wemby.

Imagine landing Ace Bailey and Edgecombe in the same draft to pair with Wemby.

[Atl Spur]

lol @ white knighting for Robert Dillingham and having the nerve to call someone else a jock rider

Big bro, let’s keep it a buck, you are a dickrider follower type dude….no disrespect:) Keep your cum dumpster shut and let some of these lame ass dudes ( I use that term dudes lightly ) fight their own battles:) Keep on keeping bum ass clown.

[BackHome]

I need help filling out this list

List of things Buzelis does better than Sochan:

1) a bit of a springier athlete while weighing less and having less length/strength

Probably only thing he does better is block shots and that’s about it

[BackHome]

If you want to see a Wemby dynasty you better be rooting for losses next year for the Spurs and Atlanta to stink to land two top five picks and get some high end talent on this roster.

There are several players next year with all star upside potential. Current Spurs and the players drafted this year don't have that upside, no stars on the current Spurs outside of Wemby.

Imagine landing Ace Bailey and Edgecombe in the same draft to pair with Wemby.

And that is why I don’t mind taking a risk and drafting a guy with upside with our 4th pick vs. someone who at best is a good bench player. I am totally down with strategically tanking next season as you are 100% correct the next draft is full of legit NBA starters and probably 2 to 6 players who would immediately become our second best player on this team.

[spurraider21]

Probably only thing he does better is block shots and that’s about it
He’s probaby a better iso scorer but not sure that’s really a priority for us out of that position right now

[Degoat]

I have a weird feeling the spurs grab a guard at 8 instead of 4.

[The Truth #6]

Better ball handler I would say.

[BackHome]

So a question is he a SF or a PF?

[BatManu20]

So a question is he a SF or a PF?

Can play either depending on the lineup but he projects as a SF at the next level. That's why it's imperative that he learn to shoot the 3 more consistently.

[heyheymymy]

Seen 2 different mocks that were released today that have Dillingham going #3 to Houston. Including this one, that has Clingan going 2 and the Spurs taking Risacher at 4.

https://collegesportswire.usatoday.com/lists/2024-nba-mock-draft-lottery-combine-college-basketball/

Looking at all these mocks and that's a pretty decent one. I'd prob take Castle at 8 instead of Topic but I like the Pacome #35 call lol

[mystargtr34]

So a question is he a SF or a PF?

Imo he’s similar to Sochan, slightly undersized for a 4 or a 3 with good size. Buzelis is taller than Sochan by an inch or two but he’s slighter with narrower shoulders so may not be able to hold much extra weight.

[heyheymymy]

Quite a quiet game from Risacher today with 6 points and 11 rebounds in 25 minutes.

Next for his team is the semi final against Monaco, who is obviously the heavy favorite.

Monaco pummeled Wemby's Mets92 in the LNB Pro A Finals last summer iirc and they were impressive. Heavy favorite seems appropriate

[tbdog]

Just seeing more highlights and reading more, I'm still in favour Castle at 4. Just seeing what Suggs did with the magic and how much flexibility the magic have now but having that point of attack defender. You don't see many of those big point guards come into the league. Then again, needing a guard to break down defense is also necessary.

[heyheymymy]

Makes me wonder if SA likes Castle when his data probably in some small way more easily overlaps with Spurs due to similar system at UCONN plus the existence of Clingan which is NOT a comparison of Clingan to Wemby but in a very general sense mocks Wemby's presence to enough of a degree to say the way Castle operates in Clingan's orbit is possibly what it would look like in SA with Vic. Looking back and Givony has Clingan #1 in his analytics based big board and we know Clingan is offensively limited so assuming that is mostly defensive impact.

Just may make it easier to extrapolate Castle's possible value in SA since there are those similarities existing where he came from.

Wonder if Castle wants to fall to SA at 8 and is putting some scripting to that effect with his replies to media. The stuff about wanting to not play with teams that already have a primary ball handler and how ppl are reacting to that negatively saying he's arrogant. It could be a sink act as a message to #6 CHA specifically and even #7 POR too since those would be eligible examples and the teams he needs to sink past.

And if Castle is really doing that I hope Risacher is too lol. It's crazy how SA might have that gravity now with Wemby. Nike has 100m invested etc, the recruitment pull is going to be real. Remember back in the day, Bron and Kobe getting whatever they want to make it work. Not that I want that, especially the Bosh/Pau level goods. But all those Mike Millers and Battiers start to add up regardless of FA, trades or draft the players wanting to be there opens up so much flexibility lol just thinking about D Fisher using his sick daughter to get back to the big market.

[kobyz]

If we going Castle at 4 we should hope Reed fall to 8 as it would be great complimentary pick to Castle

[Vienna]

I didn't say it's meaningless. Please, for God's sake, read what people write. I said that after a certain point the small variations don't matter a whole lot.

Funnily enough, there was a good analysis I think on nba_draft where the guy sifted through years of drafts. Centers who are drafted high in the lottery have a very high chance of busting. The smaller a player selected high the lottery? Higher chance of hitting. (High lottery meaning around top 8 picks or so.)

What's crazy is that this is right. Men over seven feet tall, or thereabouts, are about 1 in 6 chance of playing in the NBA. The likelihood of those guys actually being good at basketball is pretty slim, given the size of the population.

But then the smaller you get, the wider the population. Which means that if you're getting drafted into the NBA, the chances are that you're very good at what you do. Basically, no one's taking fliers on 6'1" dudes. They're taking fliers on 6'8" athletes who don't know how to play, or 7'0" guys who are probably even worse players.

yes, I get that. but Kids at 6', who can't dribble the ball, end up on a divison 3 college anyway.
I don't see a big enough sample of players draftet high lottery that are 6'1" or below to take some statistical evidence from it.
even if you go up to pick 1-10 you end up with maybe 10 players in the last 20 years. and if you look at them, no one, not a single one, was around 164. and each one of those players displayed something to somehow compensate. significantly longer arms, or significantly more weight and strenght, or both. or a supernatural speed.

I don't want to claim that Dillingham can't become a success story. but if he does, he will be an absolute exception regarding height, weight and wingspan. so yes, picking Dillingham at 4 is taking a flier. same at 8.

[exstatic]

I saw this from a random Hornets journalist about Ron Holland, and it really made me doubt that he can become a good shooter.
https://x.com/british_buzz/status/1792504438923366542
1 out of 5 of your 3s being airballed/bricked means your shot is fricked.

I’m actually more interested in his form than the current results. If it looks like MKG’s then he’s fucked. There was never any fixing that shot.

[sfernald]

Fuck off, I was responding to this post bringing up Irving. Do you even read the posts you respond to?

omg, when did I ever mention his handles specifically? You are reading WAY too much to my generic statement. Get over it!

[Dejounte]

Castle scoring 41 over Ron’s team in high school means a lot to me tbh. Castle at 4 and hope for Reed at 8

[baseline bum]

omg, when did I ever mention his handles specifically? You are reading WAY too much to my generic statement. Get over it!

I was telling Body to fuck off.

[poopbox]

Just seeing more highlights and reading more, I'm still in favour Castle at 4. Just seeing what Suggs did with the magic and how much flexibility the magic have now but having that point of attack defender. You don't see many of those big point guards come into the league. Then again, needing a guard to break down defense is also necessary.

Suggs is also the main reason the magic might have to cash out a washed up Klay Thompson for some sort of consistent perimeter shooting.

I think there is a reason why when teams have to choose between an offensive point guard vs a defensive one they choose the offensive one like 9.9 times out of 10

[mo7888]

Castle scoring 41 over Ron’s team in high school means a lot to me tbh. Castle at 4 and hope for Reed at 8

Definitely the best guard pairing we could get out of this draft. They both complement each other and each has a chance to establish themselves as the PG going forward.

[FireMicoHalili]

yes, I get that. but Kids at 6', who can't dribble the ball, end up on a divison 3 college anyway.
I don't see a big enough sample of players draftet high lottery that are 6'1" or below to take some statistical evidence from it.
even if you go up to pick 1-10 you end up with maybe 10 players in the last 20 years. and if you look at them, no one, not a single one, was around 164. and each one of those players displayed something to somehow compensate. significantly longer arms, or significantly more weight and strenght, or both. or a supernatural speed.

I don't want to claim that Dillingham can't become a success story. but if he does, he will be an absolute exception regarding height, weight and wingspan. so yes, picking Dillingham at 4 is taking a flier. same at 8.
the Rockets fans go here to read man. The Spurs don't want Dillingham. They clearly want Dalton Knecht, an experienced wing who scored a lot in college.

[BatManu20]

If Spurs want Castle, they'll have to take him at 4 (assuming WAS and HOU don't take him). He's not making it to 8 tbh.

[mudyez]

Dream Draft szenarios:

#1: Risacher+Reed/Castle
#2: Castle+Reed
#3: Reed+Salaun/Buzelis
#4: Buzelis+Salaun

...dont't want no Dillingham, Holland, Williams

[BatManu20]

I think Risacher ends up going top-3, but if both he and Castle were hypothetically there at 4, who are you taking in that scenario?

[BatManu20]

Dream Draft szenarios:

#1: Risacher+Reed/Castle
#2: Castle+Reed
#3: Reed+Salaun/Buzelis
#4: Buzelis+Salaun

...dont't want no Dillingham, Holland, Williams

Imagine Castle goes 2 to WAS and Risacher 3 to HOU :lol

[Mr. Body]

I think Risacher ends up going top-3, but if both he and Castle were hypothetically there at 4, who are you taking in that scenario?

A likely possibility.

Personally, I take Castle - he has room to grow upon an already good skillset, especially POA defense. Risacher is likely limited to above average shooting, above average defense and his role never developing beyond sticking him in the corner. You can always find that player later in drafts... and next year is full of multi-talented SFs who blow him away.

Really, if Sheppard goes to Houston and Detroit is looking at no shooters, see if you can squeeze them for Risacher. They may just go for Knecht, but it's worth a try. But then Wembanyama may have a hissy.

[LeBowen]

Personally, I take Castle - he has room to grow upon an already good skillset, especially POA defense. Risacher is likely limited to above average shooting, above average defense and his role never developing beyond sticking him in the corner. You can always find that player later in drafts... and next year is full of multi-talented SFs who blow him away.

I also like Castle, seems like one of those connective pieces every championship roster needs, but i don't like him with our roster.
Him and Jeremy would never be able to share the floor until they get some range, but Pop would still do it.

If we get Castle, then Knecht or Dillingham would have to be the 8th pick. Or Jeremy would have to go.

[rankingtear]

Knecht is just a great fit with Wemby. Wouldn't mind him at 4 if Zacch ain't there. I feel Castle would be drafted over before he is better than Tre at that spot. Wouldn't mind him as Sochan insurance at the wing not at point.

[Degoat]

A Castle/Knecht draft would fill a lot of needs for the spurs

Castle- Point of a attack defender/size, athlete, PG development
knecht- Scorer/shooter

[Mr. Body]

I also like Castle, seems like one of those connective pieces every championship roster needs, but i don't like him with our roster.
Him and Jeremy would never be able to share the floor until they get some range, but Pop would still do it.

If we get Castle, then Knecht or Dillingham would have to be the 8th pick. Or Jeremy would have to go.

I agree that it's a problem, but we can figure that out later. We're not assembling a championship team just yet, we're trying to add up talent and get to the playoffs. Fit is an aspect, but we can make moves as needed to get the right players as we get closer. Sochan can come off the bench. Castle can come off the bench. If things don't quite work, those are players that can be moved. Sort of what Orlando is doing. They took Anthony Black despite having too many guards last year, but they thought he was the right choice at 6. They can figure it out.

But, yes, my 8 pick would be not just a shooter, but one that's a significant threat. I think Knecht fits that bill, too.

[heyheymymy]

Imagine Castle goes 2 to WAS and Risacher 3 to HOU :lol

nightmare

[Mr. Body]

Imagine Castle goes 2 to WAS and Risacher 3 to HOU :lol

I don't see that being a big problem, even if it pushes my favorite 4/8 results off the table. Clearly I don't want Risacher that much, but that's repeating myself.

I take the Dill-man 4, but I've been considering that anyway. Either:

- If the team is high on Sheppard, they're taking him at 4. Few of us like Topic, but he's in play. So the FO may not be bothered at all.

- Barring those, I'm probably believing Sheppard and Clingan are attractive to teams in the next slots down to 10. I know there's not much time, but see what the appetite is from Detroit, Memphis, etc., to move up.

- Game out what would happen at 8 if the above happens. I'm sure the team is working out Buzelis and Cody Williams and these other guys, too. In the end, you can trade out of that spot if you get your Dillingham/Sheppard/whatever at 4 and don't like the wings left at 8.

[BackHome]

If that happened I would probably take Holland/Topic - Williams/Salauan

[CGD]

Imagine Castle goes 2 to WAS and Risacher 3 to HOU :lol

Topic + Salaun/Williams it is then

[spurraider21]

nightmare
while it would sting for risacher to be taken one pick before, this means you take wing of choice at 4 knowing at least one of the kentucky guys will be there at 8 (a lot of chatter of the hornets liking sheppard if he gets that far). i personally still have Holland above Castle anyway, but not sure what the spurs board looks like between Holland/Buzelis/Williams/Salaun/Knecht

i just really really hope they have Topic behind both Kentucky guys

[scott]

Might just be a function of the fact we have the #4 and #8 pick, but his is easily one of the more interesting run ups to the draft in a long time. From my POV, there are 7 guys who would have had a case for #1 overall depending on who got that pick (Sarr, Risacher, Castle, Dillingham, Sheppard, Clingan, Topic). And There are 8 guys I could realistically see the Spurs seeing as a fit at #4 (add Buzelis and Holland to the previous list, remove Clingan). The amount of unpredictability is fun. Hoping for a trade to get tossed in there to spice it up a little further.

Appreciate everyone's thoughts on this year's class. Lots of room for diverse opinions, which makes it a lot more interesting. I think next year might be just as fun, but with the entire top 10 being elevated a notch (and I do not believe Flagg is the obvious #1 pick the way Wemby was, at this point).

[BatManu20]

Topic + Salaun/Williams it is then

I would hate that draft tbh. Hopefully that isn’t the case. Much rather have one of Castle/Risacher/Holland at 4 and then either Sheppard/Dillingham/Topic/Knecht at 8.

[Ariel]

Imagine Castle goes 2 to WAS and Risacher 3 to HOU :lol
Possibly worst case scenario, at least in the short term. Probably would take Buzelis & Dillingham then, high upside but also lower floor.

[mo7888]

If Spurs want Castle, they'll have to take him at 4 (assuming WAS and HOU don't take him). He's not making it to 8 tbh.

I think I agree, but who at 5, 6, or 7 is taking him? Not Detroit, not Portland,.... Charlotte? I'm not sure...

[CGD]

I would hate that draft tbh. Hopefully that isn’t the case. Much rather have one of Castle/Risacher/Holland at 4 and then either Sheppard/Dillingham/Topic/Knecht at 8.

This was in response to a scenario where Castle and ZR were already off the board by 4.

[CGD]

I think I agree, but who at 5, 6, or 7 is taking him? Not Detroit, not Portland,.... Charlotte? I'm not sure...

Many mocks have him to Charlotte, which is why his comments about wanting to play PG as very interesting.

[BatManu20]

Rockets’ beat-writer. I believe it tbh. The more time passes, the more I think Castle might be the pick at 4 if he’s available.

1792952644782215420

I’d be fine with that. Spurs desperately need guys who can defend, and his POA Defense, while already very good, has a chance to be elite. Just gotta figure out that jump shot, which I’m confident will come with time and repetition.

The Jimmy Butler comparisons are intriguing, certainly much more-so than the RJ Barrett and Dante Exum ones. The physical profiles are similar and Butler couldn’t shoot the 3-ball well either at Marquette. Jimmy plays at a faster pace than Castle does, but there are definitely some similarities in their build and their games. All in all, there are definitely worse players we could take at 4. I’d be more than okay with it.

[Mr. Body]

Rockets’ beat-writer. I believe it tbh. The more time passes, the more I think Castle might be the pick at 4 if he’s available.

1792952644782215420

I’d be fine with that. Spurs desperately need guys who can defend, and his POA Defense, while already very good, has a chance to be elite. Just gotta figure out that jump shot, which I’m confident will come with time and repetition.

The Jimmy Butler comparisons are intriguing, certainly much more-so than the RJ Barrett and Dante Exum ones. The physical profiles are similar and Butler couldn’t shoot the 3-ball well either at Marquette. Jimmy plays at a faster pace than Castle does, but there are definitely some similarities in their games. All in all, there are definitely worse players we could take at 4. I’d be more than okay with it.

Not only does Castle project as potentially a phenomenal perimeter defender, his turnaround should be pretty fast. He's not a guy who may take a long time to pick up and understand NBA basketball (ahem, Branham, Wesley). UConn's offense had complex offensive wrinkles, when guys cut, how to recognize variations, etc.

This isn't surprising, more about what it suggests about Risacher. Either less interested or, imo, more likely they think he's gone.

[Mr. Body]

I'd take a different target at 4, too, and sweeten the pot for Charlotte at 6. I'm not convinced they're in love with Castle there, or really with any specific player, so moving down to 8 and giving them some SRPs might work.

[Ariel]

I'd take a different target at 4, too, and sweeten the pot for Charlotte at 6. I'm not convinced they're in love with Castle there, or really with any specific player, so moving down to 8 and giving them some SRPs might work.
It's all very situational. Sometimes you see teams swapping high lottery picks for just a single SRP (like last year with Indiana and Washington, at 7 & 8 respectively), but it's usually when teams are just trying to get a little extra value out of their pick while getting the guy they were targeting anyway. I don't think most teams would be willing to let go of their preferred option for just a 2nd round pick. But if Detroit or Charlotte could get their guy at 8, then the Spurs could make sure no one leapfrogs them and grabs their target in front of them (Castle or whomever).

[TD 21]

I think Risacher ends up going top-3, but if both he and Castle were hypothetically there at 4, who are you taking in that scenario?

After much consternation, I'm going with the guy with a malleable skillset who fills a positional need over the guy with a high bust rate.


Just gotta figure out that jump shot, which I’m confident will come with time and repetition.

Ah yes, that minor detail . . . which happens to be the most important skill in the game (especially for role players who aren't rim running centers) and a need here for the better part of a decade.

It's not like it's rare or anything for players with as low a baseline shooting wise as him to develop into good enough ones for the defense to respect.

[Ariel]

As for Castle, he was never a primary target of mine because I wanted someone who could really shoot and put rim pressure, but after the measurments from the combine came back at 6´5.5" barefoot and 6´9" wingspan, he's legit wing size and could credibly defend 1-3, that coupled with his versatility mitigate the questions on whether he can be primary ball handler or not, and give him a really high floor, with his ceiling being off the charts if his shot comes around. This is why I'm also ok with the idea of taking him at 4 and Dillingham at 8, those 2 could complement each other pretty well given their strengths and weaknesses.

[rjv]

i've got no problem with castle at #4 in such a draft as this one.

[TD 21]

I suspect these fools will select Castle either way, but some potentially good news on the Sheppard front, is the Rockets (along with the Warriors and Magic) are rumored to have interest in Beasley.

Of course, the pick could also easily be traded, but it would seem if it was it'd be to a team either looking for more of a potential primary option like Topic or Dillingham or a defensive anchor like Clingan.

[baseline bum]

Castle scoring 41 over Ron’s team in high school means a lot to me tbh. Castle at 4 and hope for Reed at 8

Castle and Sheppard would be an awesome draft but Sheppard at 8 seems like a pipe dream when he's considered one of the safe picks this draft. Still wouldn't be too surprised to see him go to Houston at 3 despite the lackluster combine measurements.

[Ariel]

I think Risacher ends up going top-3, but if both he and Castle were hypothetically there at 4, who are you taking in that scenario?
Probably Risacher is off the board at 4 so it won't be of any practical consequence, but if it does end up being the case and the Spurs want to take both, the best move could be taking Risacher at 4 (would be taken off the board immediately otherwise) while Castle could survive to 8, but you could perhaps entice one of the teams picking 5-7 to move back to 8 for some salary dump / minor assets (Charlotte's fake first, multiple SRPs, etc).

[baseline bum]

Rockets’ beat-writer. I believe it tbh. The more time passes, the more I think Castle might be the pick at 4 if he’s available.

1792952644782215420

I’d be fine with that. Spurs desperately need guys who can defend, and his POA Defense, while already very good, has a chance to be elite. Just gotta figure out that jump shot, which I’m confident will come with time and repetition.

The Jimmy Butler comparisons are intriguing, certainly much more-so than the RJ Barrett and Dante Exum ones. The physical profiles are similar and Butler couldn’t shoot the 3-ball well either at Marquette. Jimmy plays at a faster pace than Castle does, but there are definitely some similarities in their build and their games. All in all, there are definitely worse players we could take at 4. I’d be more than okay with it.

Castle seems the most Spurs like pick, but god I hope he gets a lot better than Sochan if they go that route. Two years in and Sochan's three point shot is still dogshit.

[Mr. Body]

It's all very situational. Sometimes you see teams swapping high lottery picks for just a single SRP (like last year with Indiana and Washington, at 7 & 8 respectively), but it's usually when teams are just trying to get a little extra value out of their pick while getting the guy they were targeting anyway. I don't think most teams would be willing to let go of their preferred option for just a 2nd round pick. But if Detroit or Charlotte could get their guy at 8, then the Spurs could make sure no one leapfrogs them and grabs their target in front of them (Castle or whomever).

Yeah, I have no idea what it would take. I do get the sense at least from the Hornets fanbase that no one is completely in love with a player. What matters, too, is whether they think Portland would take their guy. But if they're split between Clingan or Holland and out on Castle, then they might.

[Mr. Body]

Stephon Castle vs. Anthony Black in terms of college stats.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=stephon-castle--anthony-black

Pretty comparable, tbh. Black went sixth last year and I think Castle could have pushed him there.

[spurraider21]

my issue with castle is i just dont know what you're getting out of him offensively. jumper aside, he's not sudden athlete. doesnt get up very high. doesnt have burst off the dribble. doesnt have great handles. doesnt really have a midrange game (has good touch in the paint, floaters, etc). makes the easy/obvious pass but i dont see anything high level in that department either. he got by making good cuts off-ball and otherwise kinda just playing bullyball into a floater of some sort

[CGD]

I'd take a different target at 4, too, and sweeten the pot for Charlotte at 6. I'm not convinced they're in love with Castle there, or really with any specific player, so moving down to 8 and giving them some SRPs might work.

Who are you sweetening the pot for to basically get your guy at 4? (As opposed to just taking Castle there)

[Mr. Body]

Who are you sweetening the pot for to basically get your guy at 4? (As opposed to just taking Castle there)

It's no secret I want Dillingham. I take him there, as he's my priority and to make sure Detroit doesn't get him. Then as I suggest, at least in this scenario, jumping up to grab Castle at 6.

[SpursBills]

Just for entertainment purposes -

Which of these is most likely?
1. Ron Holland / Stephon Castle become league average shooters
2. Nikola Topic becomes a league average defender
3. Reed Sheppard / Rob Dillingham grow 2 inches

EDIT:
4. Risacher gains self-creation abilities

[Vienna]

If it‘s Castle at 4, so be it. they might see some Kawhi in him (Kawhi the player, Not Kawhi the nephew).
in that scenario I would like Cody at 8.
or the best shooter left. that might be Sheppard, or McCain or Knecht.

[CGD]

It's no secret I want Dillingham. I take him there, as he's my priority and to make sure Detroit doesn't get him. Then as I suggest, at least in this scenario, jumping up to grab Castle at 6.

That’s right.

Hmm, I have a hard time seeing DET taking Dillingham 5 when they have Ivey/Cade. In any case I wonder if Reed doesn’t fit them better? Have a feeling if Dillingham makes it to 4 he’ll make it to 8.

[rjv]

i don't think there is any player in this draft that i think the spurs should trade up for. i do think there are some that i'd be okay with them trading down for, though.

[scott]

Just for entertainment purposes -

Which of these is most likely?
1. Ron Holland / Stephon Castle become league average shooters
2. Nikola Topic becomes a league average defender
3. Reed Sheppard / Rob Dillingham grow 2 inches

EDIT:
4. Risacher gains self-creation abilities

I'd add for #2, that Topic needs to become a league average defender AND become a league average shooter. In which case, #1 seems most likely.

[Degoat]

NBA central Twitter posted it… some athletic writer says the spurs have strong interest in Stephon Castle.

[CGD]

NBA central Twitter posted it… some athletic writer says the spurs have strong interest in Stephon Castle.

Guaranteed he’s going 2 to WAS now lol

[Mr. Body]

That’s right.

Hmm, I have a hard time seeing DET taking Dillingham 5 when they have Ivey/Cade. In any case I wonder if Reed doesn’t fit them better? Have a feeling if Dillingham makes it to 4 he’ll make it to 8.

Tbh if Detroit is smart they take Dillingham. I think he can play off Cunningham. The only problem is Ivey, but if they're acquiring talent, just figure it out later. There's not a ton of star upside in the draft and RD has some of it.

But I do think Reed fits there very well, too.

[CGD]

Just for entertainment purposes -

Which of these is most likely?
1. Ron Holland / Stephon Castle become league average shooters
2. Nikola Topic becomes a league average defender
3. Reed Sheppard / Rob Dillingham grow 2 inches

EDIT:
4. Risacher gains self-creation abilities

You should break out #1.

Sounds like the shots are very different. I think Castle becomes a passable shooter while Holland’s shot is DOA.

[poopbox]

i don't think there is any player in this draft that i think the spurs should trade up for. i do think there are some that i'd be okay with them trading down for, though.

True, but only because they are sitting at 4, so they are going to be able to take a point guard with upside which should absolutely be the pick. If they were sitting at 7 or 8 shit might get dicey for them and they might have had to move up into the top 4 to get the guard they want.

If they really want Dilli then it is dicey for them at 4. Wizards need everything so they might take a point guard. Rockets already have everything except a young point guard to take over for Van fleet in one or two years so they might as well.

[Mr. Body]

i don't think there is any player in this draft that i think the spurs should trade up for. i do think there are some that i'd be okay with them trading down for, though.

The point, for me, is that I'd much rather secure Stephon Castle (in this scenario) than have to pick a Cody Williams or Ron Holland. If all it takes are some SRPs, then absolutely. I'd even think about giving them their FRP back. There's a PR hit there ("The Spurs traded a 2025 first rounder to move up two spots!@!"), but I don't think they make the playoffs, anyway, so it's like giving them their two SRPs back. Think about, at least.

Ultimately, I think Castle and Dillingham are the two bets I want to take in this draft, and if I can get both, then I'm happy:

Dillingham
- Excellent shooting
- Good passing (great lobs)
- Exceptional ball handling and quickness
- Clutch ability / scoring bursts

Castle
- Excellent defense
- Winning pedigree
- Good connection passer
- Won't need hand-holding

So, I'd definitely move up from 8 if the cost isn't that much.

[td4mvp2k]

Guaranteed he’s going 2 to WAS now lolthat could be how they want it to play out and take risacher at 4 which would be a success imo

[scott]

Of the teams 5-7, I do think DET is the biggest threat to take a PG. Cade/Ivey/Dillingham would actually be a pretty nifty three man rotation at guard as I think all three work in any combination with the others. I just don't see it with CHA, and in POR I don't either unless they decide on moving Simons.

Still think it makes most sense for them to move to 3 and take their choice of remaining wings though.

[TD 21]

NBA central Twitter posted it… some athletic writer says the spurs have strong interest in Stephon Castle.

:lmao If the only change to the guard rotation is replacing Wesley with Castle.



Of the teams 5-7, I do think DET is the biggest threat to take a PG. Cade/Ivey/Dillingham would actually be a pretty nifty three man rotation at guard as I think all three work in any combination with the others. I just don't see it with CHA, and in POR I don't either unless they decide on moving Simons.

Still think it makes most sense for them to move to 3 and take their choice of remaining wings though.

I don't think it'll matter because I don't see the Spurs having interest in Dillingham (or to a lesser extent Topic), but I've been saying this.

The Pistons will be hiring a new POBO, Cunningham's size gives them flexibility defensively, Ivey hasn't done enough to be entrenched (and if they're not sold on his being a fixture, the time might be now to move him before he loses more luster) and they desperately need, among other things, star power (puncher's chance) and shooting.

[PhantomDashCam]

If info. about a Spurs prospect has leaked already, I’d put money on it being misinformation.

[TD 21]

If info. about a Spurs prospect has leaked already, I’d put money on it being misinformation.

Nah, this organization is the most predictable one because they have set archetypes and characteristics they seek and don't deviate, so when we hear names like Castle and Salaun, it's predictable and typical.

When we hear names like Topic and Dillingham, the former is people stereotyping and the latter is people seeing an obvious need for his skillset.

[RC_Drunkford]

I wouldn't be mad if we pick Castle cause he has a high floor, but I see him as a back up wing. If he plays PG we'll run a very stagnant offense with teams packing the paint cause neither him nor Sochan can shoot well enough.

[Uriel]

Castle, Sochan, Vassell. I think I’m starting to see Wright’s archetype now.

[SpursBills]

Of the teams 5-7, I do think DET is the biggest threat to take a PG. Cade/Ivey/Dillingham would actually be a pretty nifty three man rotation at guard as I think all three work in any combination with the others. I just don't see it with CHA, and in POR I don't either unless they decide on moving Simons.

Still think it makes most sense for them to move to 3 and take their choice of remaining wings though.

I think the idea of Cade being a PG was probably misguided from the start. While a 6'6" PG is a modern NBA fan's wet dream, Cade actually had a negative AST:TO in college and given his good 3 point shooting and wing-sized dimensions, probably should have been used as a secondary playmaking wing / 2 guard from the start. I think that you are spot on that what the Pistons actually need is a facilitating guard to play alongside Cade, and I actually think that Dillingham, Sheppard, or Topic would all probably work next to Cade far better than them taking a 3 and D wing.

I actually have similar concerns about Castle being used as a PG, as he is even more 2 guard/wing-ish than Cade with similar dimensions and even worse offensive facilitating concerns. I think if you draft Castle, a realistic optimistic projection is that he develops into a secondary playmaking guard and defensive playmaker like a bigger Jalen Suggs, and you can use Vassell (who may be an empty calories occasional all-star ala DeRozan on a "bargain" contract in a couple years) as a pretty significant trade piece to get the star wing that you really need whether through the draft or trade.

[mo7888]

Just for entertainment purposes -

Which of these is most likely?
1. Ron Holland / Stephon Castle become league average shooters
2. Nikola Topic becomes a league average defender
3. Reed Sheppard / Rob Dillingham grow 2 inches

EDIT:
4. Risacher gains self-creation abilities

4..then 3..then 2...then 1..

[kobyz]

Rockets’ beat-writer. I believe it tbh. The more time passes, the more I think Castle might be the pick at 4 if he’s available.

1792952644782215420

I’d be fine with that. Spurs desperately need guys who can defend, and his POA Defense, while already very good, has a chance to be elite. Just gotta figure out that jump shot, which I’m confident will come with time and repetition.

The Jimmy Butler comparisons are intriguing, certainly much more-so than the RJ Barrett and Dante Exum ones. The physical profiles are similar and Butler couldn’t shoot the 3-ball well either at Marquette. Jimmy plays at a faster pace than Castle does, but there are definitely some similarities in their build and their games. All in all, there are definitely worse players we could take at 4. I’d be more than okay with it.

I think Castle ending up as a mirror image of J-dub, J-dub in his first two seasons in college couldn't shoot at all from 3 and he developed it nicely, i think Castle also show signs of being able to develop a reliable 3 point shot

[spurraider21]

4..then 3..then 2...then 1..
id say 4, 2, 1, 3

[spurraider21]

I think Castle ending up as a mirror image of J-dub, J-dub in his first two seasons in college couldn't shoot at all from 3 and he developed it nicely, i think Castle also show signs of being able to develop a reliable 3 point shot
i know this is a troll/shitpost account, but j-dub shot 35% from 3 as a freshman, which while not great is about 9% higher than castle, and on higher volume. even in his sophomore season when he got hurt and shot poorly, he shot better than castle did as a freshman

[kobyz]

i know this is a troll/shitpost account, but j-dub shot 35% from 3 as a freshman, which while not great is about 9% higher than castle, and on higher volume. even in his sophomore season when he got hurt and shot poorly, he shot better than castle did as a freshman

J-dub wasn't a 3 point shooter early in his career and he developed it, Castle solid free throws %, good touch in the mid range and hitting two 3 pointers in that final four game are indicators of 3 point shot coming along... Right now very similar player to J-dub other than that...

[Dhbsr555]

The point, for me, is that I'd much rather secure Stephon Castle (in this scenario) than have to pick a Cody Williams or Ron Holland. If all it takes are some SRPs, then absolutely. I'd even think about giving them their FRP back. There's a PR hit there ("The Spurs traded a 2025 first rounder to move up two spots!@!"), but I don't think they make the playoffs, anyway, so it's like giving them their two SRPs back. Think about, at least.

Ultimately, I think Castle and Dillingham are the two bets I want to take in this draft, and if I can get both, then I'm happy:

Dillingham
- Excellent shooting
- Good passing (great lobs)
- Exceptional ball handling and quickness
- Clutch ability / scoring bursts

Castle
- Excellent defense
- Winning pedigree
- Good connection passer
- Won't need hand-holding

So, I'd definitely move up from 8 if the cost isn't that much.
The problem is castle has said he wants to play pg

[RC_Drunkford]

everything they have done in the recent past indicates that the Spurs want a wing sized PG. The "positionless basketball" approach seems to be having size at every position with everybody being able to handle the ball. My issue is that we don't have a HOTS. You need somebody who can become a legit 1-2 punch in combination with Wemby, which constantly leaves the defense scrambling and generates open shots. That's why a Dillingham is more intriguing to me than a player like Castle.

[Splits]

I need help filling out this list

List of things Buzelis does better than Sochan:

1) a bit of a springier athlete while weighing less and having less length/strength

2. Nothing

If we draft Matas we're fucked, he is a definitional bust.

Add Salaun to that list of fucked. Matas or Salaun drafts are horrible. Both are busts. Book it.

[BackHome]

Yeah, I don't want to touch Mantas as I don't see him having the handles to play SF, I think he is destined to either player PF or be out of the league. I also don't see him fitting in with Wemby as a lot of his offense would push Wemby out to the 3 ball line. He can't shoot and he does not play physical at all to many times he does nothing on offense or defense he just disappears for long stretches of time

[Mr. Body]

everything they have done in the recent past indicates that the Spurs want a wing sized PG. The "positionless basketball" approach seems to be having size at every position with everybody being able to handle the ball. My issue is that we don't have a HOTS. You need somebody who can become a legit 1-2 punch in combination with Wemby, which constantly leaves the defense scrambling and generates open shots. That's why a Dillingham is more intriguing to me than a player like Castle.

This kind of comment puzzles me. The Spurs won five championships with small PGs. They currently have a small PG, who they drafted themselves. Where is this recent history of going for big PGs?

[mystargtr34]

Castle is definitely in play for the Wizards at number 2 as he fits in the backcourt with Poole.

Clingan, Risacher, Sarr are the other 3 in play for the Wiz I think.

Can’t see anyone else, including Topic.

[rascal]

everything they have done in the recent past indicates that the Spurs want a wing sized PG. The "positionless basketball" approach seems to be having size at every position with everybody being able to handle the ball. My issue is that we don't have a HOTS. You need somebody who can become a legit 1-2 punch in combination with Wemby, which constantly leaves the defense scrambling and generates open shots. That's why a Dillingham is more intriguing to me than a player like Castle.

There are no high end 20+ league scoreres in this draft. Dillingham will not be, you'll see. He won't even be a starter in the long run.

Next year you'll get the high end all star level players with more skills.

[rascal]

Castle is definitely in play for the Wizards at number 2 as he fits in the backcourt with Poole.

Clingan, Risacher, Sarr are the other 3 in play for the Wiz I think.

Can’t see anyone else, including Topic.

Hope not, then the Spurs will end up with Topic at 4.

[rjv]

Salaun with an a meh stat line today in Cholet's loss to Paris Basket.

[tbdog]

Suggs is also the main reason the magic might have to cash out a washed up Klay Thompson for some sort of consistent perimeter shooting.

I think there is a reason why when teams have to choose between an offensive point guard vs a defensive one they choose the offensive one like 9.9 times out of 10

You could blame Franz for that too. But Parlo isn't a great interior defender. He did improve alot. Carter and Issac obviously are. Snuggs made them that good this year. He was a big part of that. Also, I am just considering that it's easier to find a shooter and poor defender than a strong guard defender with offensive limitations.

[Degoat]

I like the idea of a big wing sized PG, up to now castles jumper isn’t there but there’s no predicting on Castles jumper in the future. And if the spurs have to invest in some shooters good!

[exstatic]

I think the idea of Cade being a PG was probably misguided from the start. While a 6'6" PG is a modern NBA fan's wet dream, Cade actually had a negative AST:TO in college and given his good 3 point shooting and wing-sized dimensions, probably should have been used as a secondary playmaking wing / 2 guard from the start. I think that you are spot on that what the Pistons actually need is a facilitating guard to play alongside Cade, and I actually think that Dillingham, Sheppard, or Topic would all probably work next to Cade far better than them taking a 3 and D wing.

I actually have similar concerns about Castle being used as a PG, as he is even more 2 guard/wing-ish than Cade with similar dimensions and even worse offensive facilitating concerns. I think if you draft Castle, a realistic optimistic projection is that he develops into a secondary playmaking guard and defensive playmaker like a bigger Jalen Suggs, and you can use Vassell (who may be an empty calories occasional all-star ala DeRozan on a "bargain" contract in a couple years) as a pretty significant trade piece to get the star wing that you really need whether through the draft or trade.

Castle’s asst/TO ratio is 2/1. He’s not worse as a playmaker than Cade,and in fact he’s better.

[Knoxxx]

Castle is a beast if you look into the program he played in and his highlights he’s a bully. I was not high on Castle then saw he’s almost as tall as the available wings and the possibility he plays PG. The biggest question is whether to pair him with one of the smalls or a bigger wing in this draft.

[BatManu20]

1793025044303565016

[objective]

Fwiw, the newest Down to Dunk podcast, a thunder media podcast, the 2 hosts were big Buzelis fans and griped about him going to the Spurs and mad that with 2 picks there was no way the Spurs passed on Buzelis twice.

Weird

They also have a weird refusal to criticize Presti, and acted like the Thunder were too asset poor and couldn't have possibly paid the asset price to get PJ Washington or whatever, very defensive over the cost to acquire players despite having the most draft picks ever.

Also insisted that the Hayward trade was a good one and they would do it the same with a second chance. Huh?

At least Spurs fandom has debate and differences of opinion, thunder people all seem like cultists.

[mystargtr34]

There’s no way the Spurs are leaking they are big fans of him if they actually are lol.

It’s either a smokescreen from the Spurs or someone with ‘sauces’ making shit up or assuming shit.

[Obstructed_View]

The problem is castle has said he wants to play pg
To be precise, he said he wouldn't work out for any team that already has a point guard. The Spurs definitely don't have a point guard.

[Knoxxx]

Castle would bully either of the BOS Gs and hold his own vs Williams. I’m sure the Spurs are taking a hard look at him.

Castle paired with Sheppard or Buzelis would be a strong draft for us. May be more ideal to get the shooter then target SF/PFs in 25.

[Knoxxx]

To be precise, he said he wouldn't work out for any team that already has a point guard. The Spurs definitely don't have a point guard.

24-25 season best last chance for another PG “experiment”.

[Mr. Body]

There’s no way the Spurs are leaking they are big fans of him if they actually are lol.

It’s either a smokescreen from the Spurs or someone with ‘sauces’ making shit up or assuming shit.

It's literally just outsiders saying what they think is happening. Teams can sometimes get a sense of what is going on, ie, where workouts are planned or not planned. It's no one's surprise the Spurs might be interested and I'm not really sure what the smokescreen would be for.

[Dejounte]

Castle is almost an inch taller than Keldon, same wingspan. Keldon’s got about 2” in standing reach over Castle. Sidy’s the same height but just slightly longer than Castle. Castle at point guard would give us a jumbo lineup.

[RC_Drunkford]

This kind of comment puzzles me. The Spurs won five championships with small PGs. They currently have a small PG, who they drafted themselves. Where is this recent history of going for big PGs?

Tre was never viewed as a starter. The only reason he started was cause the Sochan at PG experiment failed and even after that Pop started Branham at point until he got injured.

[FireMicoHalili]

It's literally just outsiders saying what they think is happening. Teams can sometimes get a sense of what is going on, ie, where workouts are planned or not planned. It's no one's surprise the Spurs might be interested and I'm not really sure what the smokescreen would be for.
fans these days have a hard time discriminating between what fans/outsiders think and actual veritable sources. "Donovan Mitchell to the Lakers makes sense" translates to at least 2k retweets and media outlets will treat it as a rumor. That's how unserious sports media is as an industry.

[FireMicoHalili]

I promise you those idiots from Project Spurs also go here and scrape this space for article ideas. They aren't very slick and none of them are even remotely competent.

[spurraider21]

This kind of comment puzzles me. The Spurs won five championships with small PGs. They currently have a small PG, who they drafted themselves. Where is this recent history of going for big PGs?
they tried sochan at PG
they tried branham at PG
wesley isnt "big" but he's 6'3 with a 6'9 wingspan
they tried primo at PG
before that it was dejounte murray

tre jones was drafted in the 2nd round to be a backup

[spurraider21]

with that said i hope we wind up with one of the kentucky guys and not the tall PG of this draft

[DPG21920]

with that said i hope we wind up with one of the kentucky guys and not the tall PG of this draft

You dont like Castle?

[spurraider21]

You dont like Castle?
I was referring to Topic

i dont even see castle as a PG despite the story

[DAF86]

You dont like Castle?

Do we really want to get into another "if we can fix his shot" situation? How many of those have worked out for us recently? Sochan, Tre, Branham, Wesley, Siddy. Heck, even Keldon, who had a fluke season, now regressed on that area. How many more of those can we afford? We need to get some actual real shooters on the team, imho.

[onechance87]

we need a playmaker at pg...Is castle gonna be sochan running pg and not be able to mesh with wemby cause hes an average passer and cant shoot.
Rather draft reed who can really shoot and at least a average playmaker.If we draft castle with reed or dilly i would be ok with that.
Or topic with reed would be cool to.

[DAF86]

If the Spurs don't trade as many of their infinite 2nd rounds picks as it takes to get in range to draft this guy, Imma lose my shit, tbh.

Tp9foNnUQYk?si=LoEA1AtXSyLYTOVa

[T Park]

Do we really want to get into another "if we can fix his shot" situation? How many of those have worked out for us recently? Sochan, Tre, Branham, Wesley, Siddy. Heck, even Keldon, who had a fluke season, now regressed on that area. How many more of those can we afford? We need to get some actual real shooters on the team, imho.

He’s 19 and the shot isn’t broken fundamentally. It’s A. Not been shot a lot, B not good percentage wise.


The form is there, higher usage the shot gets better.

[DAF86]

If available, our #4 pick should be this guy. Do not overthink it, tbh.

dg-JtZaa_SU?si=aj6yhI4dA65Vchk8

I don't care if he can't create his own shot, his off-ball game and defense would make him a nice piece to have next to Wemby for years to come. That's as good as we can hope for in this draft, imho.

[duncan2150]

Of the teams 5-7, I do think DET is the biggest threat to take a PG. Cade/Ivey/Dillingham would actually be a pretty nifty three man rotation at guard as I think all three work in any combination with the others. I just don't see it with CHA, and in POR I don't either unless they decide on moving Simons.Still think it makes most sense for them to move to 3 and take their choice of remaining wings though.Don’t Forget that they take sasser last Year who was not bad, they have a hole at the foWard spot. I don’t see them as a threat. Imo The only real threats for the spurs in the top 8 are wash and Houston who draft just before us and can totally take a guard.

[Vienna]

warming up to the idea, that the Spurs pick Castle at 4, I thought about some pro arguments for that decision.

it's more or less common sense that this draft lacks star talent. so why evaluate players by criteria of potential star players. Dillingham will never be a role player, he either flourishes in a star role, or he will bust.

I liked what Castle said, when asked what player he tried to emulate or looked up to: "probably Jrue Holiday".......well, that's a smart answer. (not one of the usual suspects Luka, SGA, Harden etc.).
it's even a clever answer, because people will say, right, Jrue wasn't shooting well either when at UCLA. and he was regarded as a combo guard, with doubts if he could handle the 1 spot.
so, if you get a 6'6" version of Jrue from this draft, you could be pretty happy, right?

one more thought: Herb Jones was just awarded all defense 1st team.
Castle and Jones display an almost identical physical profile and I see them pretty similar regarding their athletic abilities.
the most intriguing aspect about Castle might be, that if he can't be molded into this jumbo version of Jrue, you can still mold him into a copy of Herb.

[mystargtr34]

I think the Pistons big board would like this given their need for shooting and a 4 man or jumbo wing to slot between Duren and Ausar in the front court.

1. Risacher (best fit and BPA)
2. Sarr (not great fit but BPA)
3. Buzelis (best fit as jumbo wing or 4 man but lacks shooting)
4. Holland (same as Buzelis but smaller and more of a 3 then a 4).
5. Sheppard
6. Williams
7. Knecht
8. Dillingham
9. Castle
10. Clingan

There really is a lack of PF in this draft. I mean the only real PF in the lottery projected picks is Tidjane Salaun. Maybe Buzelis but to me he’s too thin to be a 4.

Salaun might be a trade down candidate for Pistons.

[Dejounte]

warming up to the idea, that the Spurs pick Castle at 4, I thought about some pro arguments for that decision.

it's more or less common sense that this draft lacks star talent. so why evaluate players by criteria of potential star players. Dillingham will never be a role player, he either flourishes in a star role, or he will bust.

I liked what Castle said, when asked what player he tried to emulate or looked up to: "probably Jrue Holiday".......well, that's a smart answer. (not one of the usual suspects Luka, SGA, Harden etc.).
it's even a clever answer, because people will say, right, Jrue wasn't shooting well either when at UCLA. and he was regarded as a combo guard, with doubts if he could handle the 1 spot.
so, if you get a 6'6" version of Jrue from this draft, you could be pretty happy, right?

one more thought: Herb Jones was just awarded all defense 1st team.
Castle and Jones display an almost identical physical profile and I see them pretty similar regarding their athletic abilities.
the most intriguing aspect about Castle might be, that if he can't be molded into this jumbo version of Jrue, you can still mold him into a copy of Herb.

Having multiple people to throw at Anthony Edwards and offensive guards/wings of his ilk is much more realistic than finding a player as good or better than them on offense. Pop has always used defense as his main scheme and drafting a defensive player would be in line with that tradition. In the end, we’re catering to both Wemby AND Pop in terms of roster building because someone has to draw up the X’s and O’.

Ball game changes when the switch comes with a stopper every time. I’m not completely on board with Castle but envisioning suffocating defense for all 48 minutes sure is appealing to me than having a bunch of one dimensional shooters play hot potato on offense because they don’t know how to create their own offense (Risacher).

[Ariel]

The more I think about it, the more I circle around these three: Risacher, Castle, Dillingham. Any 2 of these would give you at least one shooter, and at least one wing/guard (Castle can fall into either category). All three are young (19), have a solid floor and plenty of upside, and fit a need. And it's highly likely you can get 2 of the three where the Spurs will be drafting (4 & 8), but in the rare case all three are gone by 8, then Sheppard would be my 4th candidate.

[BatManu20]

If available, our #4 pick should be this guy. Do not overthink it, tbh.

dg-JtZaa_SU?si=aj6yhI4dA65Vchk8

I don't care if he can't create his own shot, his off-ball game and defense would make him a nice piece to have next to Wemby for years to come. That's as good as we can hope for in this draft, imho.

He’s likely going #2 to WAS so won’t have to be a consideration for us. Castle will most likely be a Spur tbh.

[alfahdlan]

All I want for the Spurs to win as soon as possible, lest Wemby would be tired of losing and jump ship out of our team. So who are really the best two picks that will impact winning as soon possible that can maybe make us a playoff team or at least close to that. Who??? What do we need most to reach that? Playmaking, Defense, Shooting? Who among the picks will maximize the skill of Wemby? Who among the picks will make Wemby happy?

[Dejounte]

All I want for the Spurs to win as soon as possible, lest Wemby would be tired of losing and jump ship out of our team. So who are really the best two picks that will impact winning as soon possible that can maybe make us a playoff team or at least close to that. Who??? What do we need most to reach that? Playmaking, Defense, Shooting? Who among the picks will maximize the skill of Wemby? Who among the picks will make Wemby happy?

1) Defense when Wemby sits - lacking a decent big
2) lack of shot creators when our shooters are cold
3) overall basketball IQ

Three main causes for losing this past season

everybody likes to sum it up and say, “we need a second star” but i think that’s lazy analysis

At minimum, just get a good big to replace Collins, a dynamic offensive player, and bring some vets in. These things should improve the wins by a lot. And if one of those guys is a star, all the better.

[CGD]

Castle is definitely in play for the Wizards at number 2 as he fits in the backcourt with Poole.

Clingan, Risacher, Sarr are the other 3 in play for the Wiz I think.

Can’t see anyone else, including Topic.

There fans were higher on Topic pre-injury.
perhaps he’s still in play there but 2 is high.

[kobyz]

With Washington and Houston might be looking for win now players trying to make the playoff there is a chance Sarr will fall to #4

[alfahdlan]

1) Defense when Wemby sits - lacking a decent big
2) lack of shot creators when our shooters are cold
3) overall basketball IQ

Three main causes for losing this past season

everybody likes to sum it up and say, “we need a second star” but i think that’s lazy analysis

At minimum, just get a good big to replace Collins, a dynamic offensive player, and bring some vets in. These things should improve the wins by a lot. And if one of those guys is a star, all the better.

Okey then lets get

A decent big
Shot creators
IQ overall

Thanks, Dejounte.

[Dejounte]

Okey then lets get

A decent big
Shot creators
IQ overall

Thanks, Dejounte.

A decent big should theoretically be easy to get. Plenty of cheap bigs or bigs drafted in the late first round become decent enough. See: Naz Reid.

For IQ, you’d hope the current players would be smarter as they develop through the experience they got from last year. If not, ship them away. Keldon is an example of someone who stalled or regressed in the IQ department.

Shot creators are a premium. Like LeBron said, a lot of players in the league don’t know how to play basketball. Get players who know how to play basketball. Don’t focus on guys whose main appeal is their height and length. If a player exhibits Chris Paul level intellect on the floor, draft that guy with the highest pick possible. Basketball is a game of minimizing mistakes. You let the other team pay when they make a mistake and you try to make none. If players can’t execute and keep their focus 100% of the they’re on the floor, they don’t deserve to be a Spur.

[poopbox]

You could blame Franz for that too. But Parlo isn't a great interior defender. He did improve alot. Carter and Issac obviously are. Snuggs made them that good this year. He was a big part of that. Also, I am just considering that it's easier to find a shooter and poor defender than a strong guard defender with offensive limitations.

I agree that it's easier, but the shooter helps you more than a greate perimeter defender who can't shoot, primarily because you can just run a lot of screens to move that defender off your best offensive players.

[Knoxxx]

Wemby can score 80 a game if necessary we need more defense.

[BatManu20]

With Washington and Houston might be looking for win now players trying to make the playoff there is a chance Sarr will fall to #4

Zero chance Sarr falls to 4. There's little chance the Hawks don't take him 1st Overall, but even if they didn't, both Washington and Houston would jump all over him.

[Kevin]

The draft should be framed as shooters VS non shooters. Tons of guys who can defend but cant shoot with only three shooters in Dilly/Shep/Knecht. Select a shooter at 4 and take the left over defender with no jumper at 8. Plenty of defenders to choose from and lets be honest we're splitting hairs between all the defenders. Let someone else split the hairs for you and take the shooter first.

[BatManu20]

The draft should be framed as shooters VS non shooters. Tons of guys who can defend but cant shoot with only three shooters in Dilly/Shep/Knecht. Select a shooter at 4 and take the left over defender with no jumper at 8. Plenty of defenders to choose from and lets be honest we're splitting hairs between all the defenders. Let someone else split the hairs for you and take the shooter first.

Highly unlikely they’d take any of Dilly/Sheppard/Knecht over Castle at 4. Switch it around and you have a much more likely scenario.

[BatManu20]

In unrelated news, looks like this will be the last year of Inside the NBA on TNT. For shame. End of an era tbh.

1793268912622055792

[Vienna]

let's say three years from now the Spurs are back in the mix to win the West.

so, what will be the main challange on the defensive end? stop Jokic, stop Luka, stop SGA, stop Ant. we might add Booker to this list. Lebron, Curry, KD are out.

Spurs already have an answer for Jokic, so a big defensive guard (like Castle would be) is the most glaring need for a future play off run.

[tbdog]

With Washington and Houston might be looking for win now players trying to make the playoff there is a chance Sarr will fall to #4

Washington are taking this rebuild slow.

[exstatic]

In unrelated news, looks like this will be the last year of Inside the NBA on TNT. For shame. End of an era tbh.

1793268912622055792

Show was better, pre-Shaq. Technically, one of the other networks could buy out all of the contracts except Charles. His contract states that he is free if TNT loses the media rights.

[exstatic]

Washington are taking this rebuild slow.

Next year’s draft will make the Wemby tanking year look tame.

[R. DeMurre]

The draft should be framed as shooters VS non shooters. Tons of guys who can defend but cant shoot with only three shooters in Dilly/Shep/Knecht. Select a shooter at 4 and take the left over defender with no jumper at 8. Plenty of defenders to choose from and lets be honest we're splitting hairs between all the defenders. Let someone else split the hairs for you and take the shooter first.

Why are you assuming Sheppard isn't a defender? He led the SEC in steals, he had the best DRtg & the best DBPM on his Kentucky team, had a huge amount of blocks for a guard, and tied for first in maximum vertical leap at the draft combine... There's a decent chance that if he plays PG, he could actually be a defensive asset, and not a liability at all, especially playing off of Wembanyama.

[exstatic]

New feature on TaT. Combine participants have some measures on their profile pages now.

[Mr. Body]

In unrelated news, looks like this will be the last year of Inside the NBA on TNT. For shame. End of an era tbh.

1793268912622055792

Too bad ESPN is involved at all. Disney drives everything into the ground and their coverage is trash.

[Mr. Body]

Why are you assuming Sheppard isn't a defender? He led the SEC in steals, he had the best DRtg & the best DBPM on his Kentucky team, had a huge amount of blocks for a guard, and tied for first in maximum vertical leap at the draft combine... There's a decent chance that if he plays PG, he could actually be a defensive asset, and not a liability at all, especially playing off of Wembanyama.

I'll speak up. In college, Sheppard was not a good man-to-man defender. He was consistently blown by on the perimeter and does not navigate screens well. While he does have good leaping ability, and swatted a few three-point attempts, it's widely thought that he gamed the jump portion of the combine by not extending his arms all the way up for his standing reach. Not a big deal either way - he can jump.

What he's really good at are his hands and quick reactions, poking balls, deflections. Very good defense in transition. He freelanced too much in help defense, but this might have been a coaching decision.

His lack of lateral quickness will hurt in the NBA, not to mention his size. I'm generally baffled by his incredible defensive metrics. He did win possessions out of nowhere with steals, but he's not a shut-down defender in any sense.

[rankingtear]

let's say three years from now the Spurs are back in the mix to win the West.

so, what will be the main challange on the defensive end? stop Jokic, stop Luka, stop SGA, stop Ant. we might add Booker to this list. Lebron, Curry, KD are out.

Spurs already have an answer for Jokic, so a big defensive guard (like Castle would be) is the most glaring need for a future play off run.

DAL is where we would have trouble. Sochan + Wemby matches up well with the other top teams. DAL can force switch unto anybody, were good as dead if you have a Trae Young defender in there. It is no coincidence Luka 70 point game was against ATL.

[BackHome]

This kind of comment puzzles me. The Spurs won five championships with small PGs. They currently have a small PG, who they drafted themselves. Where is this recent history of going for big PGs?

Kinda of helps when your backed up by two of the best NBA defenders in Timmy and David

[Kevin]

You listen to people around here and the Spurs had no business winning with an undersized TP even with a generational big man. Heck throw in Avery Johnson and the Spurs have yet to win a championship without an undersized starting PG.

People will say times have changed but Steph Curry has two rings without Durant as the top option despite being a smallish PG. Yes Trae Young is not a Curry level player but he would be the second option behind Wemby.

[Kevin]

Jamal Murray just won ring as a second option. Kyrie won a ring as a second and is competing for a second one. Mike Conley is the starting PG for the Wolves.

The 'you cant win a ring with a undersized PG' is a total and complete myth upon further review.

[Obstructed_View]

Show was better, pre-Shaq. Technically, one of the other networks could buy out all of the contracts except Charles. His contract states that he is free if TNT loses the media rights.
At some point in the last decade, someone convinced Kenny Smith that he is a draw. Since then, that show is three guys shouting over the top of each other.

[Obstructed_View]

Jamal Murray just won ring as a second option. Kyrie won a ring as a second and is competing for a second one. Mike Conley is the starting PG for the Wolves.

The 'you cant win a ring with a undersized PG' is a total and complete myth upon further review.
Undersized isn't the issue. The Spurs had basically one starting-caliber traditional point guard since Rod Strickland left, and that's Avery Johnson. Dejounte turned into the closest thing since then, and I don't think traditional point guard was his selling point.

[spurraider21]

Zero chance Sarr falls to 4. There's little chance the Hawks don't take him 1st Overall, but even if they didn't, both Washington and Houston would jump all over him.
Kobyz is a longtime shitpost account

[DAF86]

warming up to the idea, that the Spurs pick Castle at 4, I thought about some pro arguments for that decision.

it's more or less common sense that this draft lacks star talent. so why evaluate players by criteria of potential star players. Dillingham will never be a role player, he either flourishes in a star role, or he will bust.

I liked what Castle said, when asked what player he tried to emulate or looked up to: "probably Jrue Holiday".......well, that's a smart answer. (not one of the usual suspects Luka, SGA, Harden etc.).
it's even a clever answer, because people will say, right, Jrue wasn't shooting well either when at UCLA. and he was regarded as a combo guard, with doubts if he could handle the 1 spot.
so, if you get a 6'6" version of Jrue from this draft, you could be pretty happy, right?

one more thought: Herb Jones was just awarded all defense 1st team.
Castle and Jones display an almost identical physical profile and I see them pretty similar regarding their athletic abilities.
the most intriguing aspect about Castle might be, that if he can't be molded into this jumbo version of Jrue, you can still mold him into a copy of Herb.

#4 should definitely be either Risacher or Buzelis, because neither will make it past 5. Get one of the only true 3/4 tweeners in the draft and then draft whichever guard is available at #8 (Dilly, Sheppard, Topic, Castle, Knecht).

Also, I disagree Dilly is star or bust. He could definitely be a microwave type guard off the bench.

[KobesAchilles]

Jamal Murray just won ring as a second option. Kyrie won a ring as a second and is competing for a second one. Mike Conley is the starting PG for the Wolves.

The 'you cant win a ring with a undersized PG' is a total and complete myth upon further review.
If you go all the way back to 1994 (30 years), there have been 4 good defensive PGs on the winning championship team. Ron Harper, Billups, Kidd, and Jrue Holiday. That's the entire list.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

let's say three years from now the Spurs are back in the mix to win the West.

so, what will be the main challange on the defensive end? stop Jokic, stop Luka, stop SGA, stop Ant. we might add Booker to this list. Lebron, Curry, KD are out.

Spurs already have an answer for Jokic, so a big defensive guard (like Castle would be) is the most glaring need for a future play off run.

This is where I'm at. Luka is 25. SGA is 25. Ant is 22. You're going to be facing those dudes in the playoffs every year for the foreseeable future.

The other thing is that there are multiple avenues for Castle to be successful. Worst case, he's a 1-3 switchable, on the ball defensive pest. Best case, he's your point guard of the future. Somewhere in the middle, he's a plus on offense as a connective piece and develops an outside shot you have to at least respect.

[Kevin]

If you go all the way back to 1994 (30 years), there have been 4 good defensive PGs on the winning championship team. Ron Harper, Billups, Kidd, and Jrue Holiday. That's the entire list.

You could maybe add 2006 Gary Payton to the list but otherwise I agree.

[Mr. Body]

These "Defense is BAD" takes are hilarious.

[DAF86]

Wemby can score 80 a game if necessary we need more defense.

The Spurs are a top defense with Wemby on the court. Upping his minutes should improve the overall defensive metrics by a lot. What the Spurs need is shooting, shooting, more shooting and then some more shooting, tbh.

That's clearly the most obvious route to improving the team in a significant way.

[DAF86]

The draft should be framed as shooters VS non shooters. Tons of guys who can defend but cant shoot with only three shooters in Dilly/Shep/Knecht. Select a shooter at 4 and take the left over defender with no jumper at 8. Plenty of defenders to choose from and lets be honest we're splitting hairs between all the defenders. Let someone else split the hairs for you and take the shooter first.

Risacher can shoot and defend. That's why he should be our #1 target, tbh.

[DAF86]

Highly unlikely they’d take any of Dilly/Sheppard/Knecht over Castle at 4. Switch it around and you have a much more likely scenario.

What makes you think that?

[BatManu20]

What makes you think that?

Because I'm confident the PATFO's Big Board will have Castle ranked above all those players.

[DAF86]

I'll speak up. In college, Sheppard was not a good man-to-man defender. He was consistently blown by on the perimeter and does not navigate screens well. While he does have good leaping ability, and swatted a few three-point attempts, it's widely thought that he gamed the jump portion of the combine by not extending his arms all the way up for his standing reach. Not a big deal either way - he can jump.

What he's really good at are his hands and quick reactions, poking balls, deflections. Very good defense in transition. He freelanced too much in help defense, but this might have been a coaching decision.

His lack of lateral quickness will hurt in the NBA, not to mention his size. I'm generally baffled by his incredible defensive metrics. He did win possessions out of nowhere with steals, but he's not a shut-down defender in any sense.

How many "shut-down" PGs are in the NBA? If Sheppard can be a good team defender, then that's all he needs to be a solid rotation player for years to come, because that shooting is elite. I'm torn between him and Dilly as my guars choice.

[RC_Drunkford]

The more I think about it, the more I circle around these three: Risacher, Castle, Dillingham. Any 2 of these would give you at least one shooter, and at least one wing/guard (Castle can fall into either category). All three are young (19), have a solid floor and plenty of upside, and fit a need. And it's highly likely you can get 2 of the three where the Spurs will be drafting (4 & 8), but in the rare case all three are gone by 8, then Sheppard would be my 4th candidate.

that's exactly how my board looks as well

[exstatic]

You listen to people around here and the Spurs had no business winning with an undersized TP even with a generational big man. Heck throw in Avery Johnson and the Spurs have yet to win a championship without an undersized starting PG.

People will say times have changed but Steph Curry has two rings without Durant as the top option despite being a smallish PG. Yes Trae Young is not a Curry level player but he would be the second option behind Wemby.

The problem is, heliocentric guards can’t be second options. They are lost and ineffective without the ball in their hands. That’s one of the reasons that Trae/DJ didn’t work the way they wanted. It’s not his size,it’s his game.

[rankingtear]

Jamal Murray just won ring as a second option. Kyrie won a ring as a second and is competing for a second one. Mike Conley is the starting PG for the Wolves.

The 'you cant win a ring with a undersized PG' is a total and complete myth upon further review.

I wouldn't put Jamal Murray in there that guy is 6'4 215. He is in the big guard category.

[DAF86]

Because I'm confident the PATFO's Big Board will have Castle ranked above all those players.

Yeah, you already said that with other words, tbh. :lol I'm asking you why do you think that?

[DAF86]

You listen to people around here and the Spurs had no business winning with an undersized TP even with a generational big man. Heck throw in Avery Johnson and the Spurs have yet to win a championship without an undersized starting PG.

People will say times have changed but Steph Curry has two rings without Durant as the top option despite being a smallish PG. Yes Trae Young is not a Curry level player but he would be the second option behind Wemby.

Why do people keep comparing Curry and Trae, tbh? They play nothing alike. Trae is one of the biggest ball hogs in the league, while Curry is an elite off-ball player. Not to mention Curry is the GOAT shooter while Trae shoots 34% from 3.

Young is a smaller, less talented version of James Harden.

[Kevin]

The problem is, heliocentric guards can’t be second options. They are lost and ineffective without the ball in their hands. That’s one of the reasons that Trae/DJ didn’t work the way they wanted. It’s not his size,it’s his game.

Kyrie is pretty heliocentric. TP was never an off ball maven. CP3 was going to knock out the Durant Warriors with Harden as the top option before breaking his hand.

[RC_Drunkford]

How many "shut-down" PGs are in the NBA? If Sheppard can be a good team defender, then that's all he needs to be a solid rotation player for years to come, because that shooting is elite. I'm torn between him and Dilly as my guars choice.

Sheppard is not better than Tre Jones on D. Same height and wingspan. Tre was a 2x ACC All-Defense player and is barely a net neutral on that end. Smart defender that people shoot right over. It's gon be the same with Sheppard. And if you compare his standing reach to other players of his height in the combine, you can see that he clearly didn't fully extend and really doesn't have a 42" vertical.

[Mr. Body]

How many "shut-down" PGs are in the NBA? If Sheppard can be a good team defender, then that's all he needs to be a solid rotation player for years to come, because that shooting is elite. I'm torn between him and Dilly as my guars choice.

His shooting is elite. Definitely.

The reason I pick Dillingham over Sheppard is that he's a true self-creating shot-maker. Sheppard has some of that, but nowhere close to what Dillingham can do, which is why Calipari had Dillingham run point (usually) and Sheppard play off-ball when they were both in together.

With Sheppard, I think we have a TJ McConnell type. If his shooting translates, that's astounding. He's a true threat. But to me Dillingham's possibilities are on a whole different level. Now, the question is whether he needs that 30% usage to work.

[Mr. Body]

Why do people keep comparing Curry and Trae, tbh? They play nothing alike. Trae is one of the biggest ball hogs in the league, while Curry is an elite off-ball player. Not to mention Curry is the GOAT shooter while Trae shoots 34% from 3.

Young is a smaller, less talented version of James Harden.

YES!

THANK YOU!!

[DAF86]

Sheppard is not better than Tre Jones on D. Same height and wingspan. Tre was a 2x ACC All-Defense player and is barely a net neutral on that end. Smart defender that people shoot right over. It's gon be the same with Sheppard. And if you compare his standing reach to other players of his height in the combine, you can see that he clearly didn't fully extend and really doesn't have a 42" vertical.

I'm OK with Tre's level defense and Sheppard's elite shooting, tbh.

Also, Sheppard is Manu like in terms of defensive playmaking. Tre doesn't have that.

[LeBowen]

I'm OK with Tre's level defense and Sheppard's elite shooting, tbh.

Also, Sheppard is Manu like in terms of defensive playmaking. Tre doesn't have that.

Tre gets torched by every good point guard.

[DAF86]

Tre gets torched by every good point guard.

90% of the PGs in the league do.

[exstatic]

90% of the PGs in the league do.

Let’s get one of the 10% and not settle with our 2 lottery picks.

[R. DeMurre]

To me, PG is the least important defensive position. If a guy can be a good team defender and work within the defensive scheme-- like Curry or Tony Parker-- it's relatively easy to hide them-- and that situation will be amplified with Wembanyama back there. Mike Conley is undersized and has no problem being part of Minnesota's league leading defense. Best case scenario, I'd love a 6'4"+ PG, but if that's not available, a 6'3" guy with impressive advanced defensive stats is not a dramatic compromise.

[BatManu20]

Yeah, you already said that with other words, tbh. :lol I'm asking you why do you think that?

I think Castle is the better prospect all things considered. He's got the size (6'7 in shoes), length (6'9 wingspan), athleticism, and determination to be a Defensive force for a long time in this league. Think PATFO recognize, as others have pointed out, that we're going to be going up against guys like Ant, SGA, Jamal Murray, etc. for years to come. We need a versatile, POA Defender that we can stick on those guys in those matchups. That player currently isn't on our roster. Castle would give us that.

I also think they see his solid FT% and believe that his 3-ball will come with time, which would not only make him a complete player, but potentially an All-Star caliber one down the line. If he starts hitting his 3-ball at a decent clip, he could be Jimmy Butler-esque for us in 3-4 years. Then there's the idea that he may be able to play PG. I personally don't see a true PG in him, but I'm sure PATFO are intrigued by the idea of it.

I like those other players you mentioned, but they all have serious physical flaws. Dilly and Sheppard are considerably undersized for their positions, and Knecht has limited lateral athleticism which will likely render him a poor defender. I'd still like any of them at 8 personally, but I think PATFO recognize the 2-way potential and high upside that Castle has that the other 3 players simply don't offer.

[DAF86]

Let’s get one of the 10% and not settle with our 2 lottery picks.

Curry gets torched by good opposing guards, wouldn't you take him if he was available in this draft?

As long as we don't get a complete liability I'm fine. I wouldn't want to draft a guard because he projects as a good defender but then becomes unplayable because he can't shoot for shit, tbh.

[itzsoweezee]

To me, PG is the least important defensive position. If a guy can be a good team defender and work within the defensive scheme-- like Curry or Tony Parker-- it's relatively easy to hide them-- and that situation will be amplified with Wembanyama back there. Mike Conley is undersized and has no problem being part of Minnesota's league leading defense. Best case scenario, I'd love a 6'4"+ PG, but if that's not available, a 6'3" guy with impressive advanced defensive stats is not a dramatic compromise.

This is my biggest worry with dillingham. He does not seem to be even interested in playing defense.

[DAF86]

I think Castle is the better prospect all things considered. He's got the size (6'7 in shoes), length (6'9 wingspan), athleticism, and determination to be a Defensive force for a long time in this league. Think PATFO recognize, as others have pointed out, that we're going to be going up against guys like Ant, SGA, Jamal Murray, etc. for years to come. We need a versatile, POA Defender that we can stick on those guys in those matchups. That player currently isn't on our roster. Castle would give us that.

I also think they see his solid FT% and believe that his 3-ball will come with time, which would not only make him a complete player, but potentially an All-Star caliber one down the line. If he starts hitting his 3-ball at a decent clip, he could be Jimmy Butler-esque for us in 3-4 years. Then there's the idea that he may be able to play PG. I personally don't see a true PG in him, but I'm sure PATFO are intrigued by the idea of it.

I like those other players you mentioned, but they all have serious physical flaws. Dilly and Sheppard are considerably undersized for their positions, and Knecht has limited lateral athleticism which will likely render him a poor defender. I'd still like any of them at 8 personally, but I think PATFO recognize the 2-way potential that Castle has that the other 3 players simply don't offer.

I'm cool with taking Castle at 8, not at 4, passing on a guy that projects as a way safer bet (and probably higher ceiling too) like Risacher, tbh.

[exstatic]

Curry gets torched by good opposing guards, wouldn't you take him if he was available in this draft?

As long as we don't get a complete liability I'm fine. I wouldn't want to draft a guard because he has a projectes good defense but then becomes unplayable because he can't shoot for shit, tbh.

Curry’s HOF offense offsets his defense. I hope you're not implying that any of these guards are on that offensive level. Defense absolutely matters if you’re not Curry level on O.

[exstatic]

I'm cool with taking Castle at 8, not at 4, passing on a guy that projects as a way safer bet (and probably higher ceiling too) like Risacher, tbh.

Risacher is almost a lock to be gone at 4.

[BatManu20]

I'm cool with taking Castle at 8, not at 4, passing on a guy that projects as a way safer bet (and probably higher ceiling too) like Risacher, tbh.

If Risacher is there at 4 then yea that would likely change things. The Castle pick projection is under the assumption that Risacher is gone by 4, which I believe he will be. I think WAS ultimately takes him at 2 tbh.

[Seventyniner]

Risacher is almost a lock to be gone at 4.

I highly doubt Castle lasts to 8 either. If both Risacher and Castle are on the board at 4 the Spurs will have a tough decision to make.

[R. DeMurre]

His shooting is elite. Definitely.

The reason I pick Dillingham over Sheppard is that he's a true self-creating shot-maker. Sheppard has some of that, but nowhere close to what Dillingham can do, which is why Calipari had Dillingham run point (usually) and Sheppard play off-ball when they were both in together.

With Sheppard, I think we have a TJ McConnell type. If his shooting translates, that's astounding. He's a true threat. But to me Dillingham's possibilities are on a whole different level. Now, the question is whether he needs that 30% usage to work.


I understand this take, but I also wonder about the comparative passing abilities/desires. Their assist numbers are nearly even, and that's with Sheppard mostly playing off ball and having a minuscule usage rate of 18%, compared to Dilly's 30% rate.

[DAF86]

Curry’s HOF offense offsets his defense. I hope you're not implying that any of these guards are on that offensive level. Defense absolutely matters if you’re not Curry level on O.

Who thought Jokic would be arguably the greatest offensive bigman in league history? You never know.

All I'm saying is that after years of taking non-shooter in hopes of fixing their shots, I would like to switch it up and draft some actual good shooters for once, tbh.

[rascal]

All I want for the Spurs to win as soon as possible, lest Wemby would be tired of losing and jump ship out of our team. So who are really the best two picks that will impact winning as soon possible that can maybe make us a playoff team or at least close to that. Who??? What do we need most to reach that? Playmaking, Defense, Shooting? Who among the picks will maximize the skill of Wemby? Who among the picks will make Wemby happy?

Wemby won't have a problem with anyone they draft.

He still has trust in the fo decision making at this point.

We'll see after the next couple of seasons if that changes. Spurs need to step up in these next two drafts.

[DAF86]

Risacher is almost a lock to be gone at 4.


If Risacher is there at 4 then yea that would likely change things. The Castle pick projection is under the assumption that Risacher is gone by 4, which I believe he will be. I think WAS ultimately takes him at 2 tbh.

If Risacher is gone by 4, then I would draft Buzelis, as the only other forward projected to go in the top 5 and settle for whichever guard is available at #8.

[CGD]

For the Holland enthusiasts, please check out this podcast. Basically the shot is broken.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ringers-nba-draft-show/id1652760062?i=1000656379363

[BatManu20]

Risacher will be a Wizard tbh.

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[R. DeMurre]

Wemby won't have a problem with anyone they draft.

He still has trust in the fo decision making at this point.

We'll see after the next couple of seasons if that changes. Spurs need to step up in these next two drafts.


How could you possibly know what Wemby is actually thinking? This is a guy who said Las Vegas felt like the "closest thing I've seen to a Dystopia." He's an independent thinker, and it's impossible to know his true feelings on what he really thinks about the decisions PATFO have made. This sort of certainty reminds me of the days when there were endless twitter, instagram, and article quotes shared around here about Josh Primo's incredible "maturity" and "high character."

[Mr. Body]

Risacher will be a Wizard tbh.

1793294662590976090

Risacher is a bit of a mess on Washington. If they resign Tyus, at least they have a point guard to distribute. Otherwise they have chuckers in Poole and Kuzma, although they may move the Kooz. Then, they already have a designated sharpshooter in Kispert.

A shooting wing is not what they need and he's hard to develop even if he has much of a ceiling to get to.

[exstatic]

Who thought Jokic would be arguably the greatest offensive bigman in league history? You never know.

All I'm saying is that after years of taking non-shooter in hopes of fixing their shots, I would like to switch it up and draft some actual good shooters for once, tbh.

You realize that Sochan’s 3G% went up 60 points this past season, right? Our worst problem is defense, and I think you address that first. YMMV.

[rjv]

In unrelated news, looks like this will be the last year of Inside the NBA on TNT. For shame. End of an era tbh.

1793268912622055792

gonna hate to see this happen. although, there may be a lot of happy women in SA once charles is gone.

[kobyz]

Why it say our pick #48 forfeited? What did we do?
https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/?year-mock=2024

[R. DeMurre]

As terrible as Washington has been, I have to think they understand at this point that Kuzma and Poole aren't going to major components of any winning seasons in the future. I can't imagine any team passing on someone they think of as a BPA because there's a Poole or Kuzma currently under contract.

[baseline bum]

The Spurs are a top defense with Wemby on the court. Upping his minutes should improve the overall defensive metrics by a lot. What the Spurs need is shooting, shooting, more shooting and then some more shooting, tbh.

That's clearly the most obvious route to improving the team in a significant way.

Could use guys who can put the ball on the floor too, hence why Dillingham is my favorite prospect with a decent chance to still be there at 4 and why I like him better than Sheppard.

[baseline bum]

You realize that Sochan’s 3G% went up 60 points this past season, right? Our worst problem is defense, and I think you address that first. YMMV.

He gets ridiculously wide open threes since teams know they don't have to guard him there and he still sucks at hitting them.

[rascal]

He gets ridiculously wide open threes since teams know they don't have to guard him there and he still sucks at hitting them.

Sochan's overall fg% dropped and his efg% stayed the same.

I didn't see this vast jump in improvement from year one to year two in Sochan's shooting.

[Joseph Kony]

24% to 30% from threes is improvement i guess, but he still fucking sucks at shooting and as bb pointed out most of his threes are completely wide open

[NASpurs]

I can see Castle starting over Tre half way into the season. I see whoever we choose at 8 being in the G League next year unless they're some freak of nature which none of the prospects seem to be at the moment. They'll have to battle Vassell, KJ, Champangie, Wesley, Branham, etc.

[DesignatedT]

Castle at 4 and Knecht at 8.
or
Risacher at 4 and Castle/Dillingham at 8.

[BatManu20]

Doubt it ultimately happensg, but Clingan going 3 would be great for us tbh. Pushes another player down to us at 8.

1793320994129502411

[rascal]

24% to 30% from threes is improvement i guess, but he still fucking sucks at shooting and as bb pointed out most of his threes are completely wide open

Not only that when he misses he often misses badly indicating poor shooting mechanics and form.

[kobyz]

Dillingham is something between Allan Iverson and Monta Ellis

[Truckules]

To me, PG is the least important defensive position. If a guy can be a good team defender and work within the defensive scheme-- like Curry or Tony Parker-- it's relatively easy to hide them-- and that situation will be amplified with Wembanyama back there. Mike Conley is undersized and has no problem being part of Minnesota's league leading defense. Best case scenario, I'd love a 6'4"+ PG, but if that's not available, a 6'3" guy with impressive advanced defensive stats is not a dramatic compromise.

This is not true anymore, at least certainly not in the playoffs. In the regular season, teams have other goals in mind than winning every game, but in the playoffs, teams are relentless and will attack weak players until they get played off the floor. There's a reason playoff rotations are only 7 players deep. Having Wemby helps, but there's a limit to what he can fix, as proven with the Spurs mediocre team defense this year.

You can be an average to good defender without height, but it requires good technique, agility, and basketball IQ. Sheppard seems to have enough of those other three tools. For some reason, Dillingham seems to lack all three on the defensive side of the court even though he has them on the offensive side. Maybe it's fixable, but I'm not sure.

[Truckules]

I can see Castle starting over Tre half way into the season. I see whoever we choose at 8 being in the G League next year unless they're some freak of nature which none of the prospects seem to be at the moment. They'll have to battle Vassell, KJ, Champangie, Wesley, Branham, etc.

I'd rather Castle start immediately. If he's better than expected then the Spurs can win games and fight for a playoff spot. If he takes some time to develop, the Spurs will lose some games, and the team can get a headstart on a tank if they decide to do that again.

[KobesAchilles]

These "Defense is BAD" takes are hilarious.
It's not a take. It's just a fact that when you compare all the positions, having a bad defensive point guard doesn't stop you from winning a title. I already went year by year for you in another thread. The fact is, that every other team besides the mid-90's bulls, 04 Pistons, 11 Mavs, and 21 Bucks have won a championship with a point guard who was a mid to bad defender. Heck you could go back 35 years and it's still the same 4 guys.

[LeBowen]

Castle at 4 and Knecht at 8.
or
Risacher at 4 and Castle/Dillingham at 8.

Seems like the most reasonable outcome.
I don't think Risacher will be available, though.

Going with positional need, player potential and PATFO preferences logic, Castle should be the #4 pick and then a shooter at #8.
I think they'd rather take Dillingham than Knecht because of his upside.

[exstatic]

Doubt it ultimately happensg, but Clingan going 3 would be great for us tbh. Pushes another player down to us at 8.

1793320994129502411

He seems very un-rockety, unless Ime isa huge voice in their draft room.

[ChumpDumper]

I highly doubt Castle lasts to 8 either. If both Risacher and Castle are on the board at 4 the Spurs will have a tough decision to make.
Risacher. Easy decision the Spurs won't have to make.