2024 NBA Draft Thread

[CGD]

Risacher is a bit of a mess on Washington. If they resign Tyus, at least they have a point guard to distribute. Otherwise they have chuckers in Poole and Kuzma, although they may move the Kooz. Then, they already have a designated sharpshooter in Kispert.

A shooting wing is not what they need and he's hard to develop even if he has much of a ceiling to get to.

It sounds like the new management is opting to start over, which is the right move (finally!).

[MultiTroll]

Does RC Buford play any part in the Spurs selection process?

[ChumpDumper]

Castle at 4 and Knecht at 8.That's fine. Knecht is almost required if the shooting of the #4 pick is in question.


Risacher at 4 and Castle/Dillingham at 8.Also fine but kind of unlikely now.

[BackHome]

I agree with Baseline, I think it smoke screen to get a team to trade up to trade for him maybe work something out with the Grizz.

[Mr. Body]

gonna hate to see this happen. although, there may be a lot of happy women in SA once charles is gone.

It's funny him complaining about fat women when he's a lardass.

[stnick2261]

the closer we get to the draft, the more I think the team make-up needs to be:

PG who can get the ball where it needs to go
SG - 3&D (minimum)
SF - 3&D (minimum)
PF - 3&D (minimum)
C - Wemby

It makes me pray for Risacher to fall to us at #4. Topic may be best for getting the ball where it needs to go, but I can't overlook Castle's defense either.

Then Ulrich Chomche at #35 (6'11.5" 3&D PF with 7'4" wingspan who shot 38% from 3pt on 8.4 attempts per 36min).

[spurraider21]

Let’s get one of the 10% and not settle with our 2 lottery picks.
i dont think bigger blake wesley is really what the team needs right now

[KobesAchilles]

He seems very un-rockety, unless Ime isa huge voice in their draft room.
Him and Sengun would not work well together.

[CGD]

Risacher will be a Wizard tbh.

1793294662590976090

We’re getting Topic aren’t we? Lots of mocks now having Dillingham at 3.

As much as I like Castle, I don’t think they’ll take him with 4. They be OK seeing if he falls to 8.

In this world I think they go:

Topic + Castle
Topic + Williams
Topic + Saluan
Topic + Matas

(I assume DET takes Reed)

[Degoat]

Am I crazy thinking topic has a higher chance to drop to 8 than Castle does? I don’t see Topic as a piston, Hornet, or trailblazer kinda player could be wrong tho

[LeBowen]

Am I crazy thinking topic has a higher chance to drop to 8 than Castle does? I don’t see Topic as a piston, Hornet, or trailblazer kinda player could be wrong tho

No, that's a perfectly reasonable take.

No chance Castle goes past Hornets.

Topic is a bad defender with questionable shot and all those teams already have a playmaker. I think they wouldn't pick him even if he was healthy. It would be really upsetting if Spurs took Topic with #4.

[BatManu20]

Am I crazy thinking topic has a higher chance to drop to 8 than Castle does? I don’t see Topic as a piston, Hornet, or trailblazer kinda player could be wrong tho

Nope. Agree with you there, cause Castle ain't making it to 8. Think the Spurs would definitely take Castle over Topic if both are available at 4. Neither can shoot the ball right now, but at least Castle offers great if not elite Defense right off the bat, as well as versatility on that end to defend 1-3. Topic is more of a wild card imo because he's likely going to be a poor defender his entire career due to his lack of athleticism/foot speed. His offensive ceiling is higher due to his play-making ability, especially if he figures out that shot, but if he never reaches it, then he could easily become nothing more than an average role player at best who cant defend. And if Castle figures out his shot, then he almost certainly becomes the better, more impactful two-way player.

I'm taking Castle over Topic all day tbh, though I wouldn't hate Topic at 8 if we don't land Castle at 4 for some reason.

[BatManu20]

Topic also has the durability concerns already early on in his career. Hopefully its just bad luck and nothing more, but definitely something GM's and scouts will have to consider while scouting him.

[CGD]

Am I crazy thinking topic has a higher chance to drop to 8 than Castle does? I don’t see Topic as a piston, Hornet, or trailblazer kinda player could be wrong tho

The Spurs won’t be able to help themselves, lol.

[spurraider21]

Spurs issues

shooting and defense

Topic's weaknesses

shooting and defense

[baseline bum]

Spurs issues

shooting and defense

Topic's weaknesses

shooting and defense

Also a China doll

[Kevin]

Spurs issues

shooting and defense

Topic's weaknesses

shooting and defense

Shooting is more important than defense when measuring a player's worth unless it a potential elite rim protector like Sarr. Gotta take a shooter at 4 and swing on a defender with no jumper at 8. Supply and demand really plays a role in who to take at 4 VS 8.

[scott]

Risacher is a bit of a mess on Washington. If they resign Tyus, at least they have a point guard to distribute. Otherwise they have chuckers in Poole and Kuzma, although they may move the Kooz. Then, they already have a designated sharpshooter in Kispert.

A shooting wing is not what they need and he's hard to develop even if he has much of a ceiling to get to.

On the other hand, it makes sense for WAS to realize that no one on their team is good enough to stop them from taking whoever they feel is the best player available (much like the Spurs should, outside of Wemby).

If they do take Risacher, I'd be curious as to their appetite to move some of their other wings.

[bevo]

I'd be happy with Castle and Reed with 4+8

[Ariel]

Risacher is a bit of a mess on Washington. If they resign Tyus, at least they have a point guard to distribute. Otherwise they have chuckers in Poole and Kuzma, although they may move the Kooz. Then, they already have a designated sharpshooter in Kispert.

A shooting wing is not what they need and he's hard to develop even if he has much of a ceiling to get to.
You really think Poole, Kuzma, or even Kispert enter the equation when deciding who to pick at 2 for a team that is probably tanking for 3 more seasons? Really?
If they think Risacher is the best fit, he's their guy. I think Atlanta probably takes him TBH, but otherwise he's likely gone at 2 unless the Spurs are absolutely crazy about him and make a ridiculous offer for him (hope not).

On the other hand, it makes sense for WAS to realize that no one on their team is good enough to stop them from taking whoever they feel is the best player available (much like the Spurs should, outside of Wemby).

If they do take Risacher, I'd be curious as to their appetite to move some of their other wings.
I think Coulibaly is off limits, Deni I'm not sure, probably they don't move him unless it's an offer they can't refuse, people usually name him as an older guy with no upside but dude just turned 23 this year, he's about as old as Dalton Knecht who is yet to be drafted. Everyone else is probably available for the right price.

[mo7888]

Also a China doll

That's the biggest issue here..

[mo7888]

Shooting is more important than defense when measuring a player's worth unless it a potential elite rim protector like Sarr. Gotta take a shooter at 4 and swing on a defender with no jumper at 8. Supply and demand really plays a role in who to take at 4 VS 8.

Supply and Demand would seem to indicate that you take the defender at 4 and the shooter at 8. There's only 1 elite defender and at least 3, if not 4, shooters available.

[mo7888]

I'd be happy with Castle and Reed with 4+8

I think that's the best (reasonably possible) pairing in the top 10.

[baseline bum]

That's the biggest issue here..

To me it's the lack of shooting with no in between game either. Not gonna get to the basket if everyone can just drop back and take away the drive every possession.

[mo7888]

You really think Poole, Kuzma, or even Kispert enter the equation when deciding who to pick at 2 for a team that is probably tanking for 3 more seasons? Really?
If they think Risacher is the best fit, he's their guy. I think Atlanta probably takes him TBH, but otherwise he's likely gone at 2 unless the Spurs are absolutely crazy about him and make a ridiculous offer for him (hope not).

I think Coulibaly is off limits, Deni I'm not sure, probably they don't move him unless it's an offer they can't refuse, people usually name him as an older guy with no upside but dude just turned 23 this year, he's about as old as Dalton Knecht who is yet to be drafted. Everyone else is probably available for the right price.

I've been wanting Deni here for a while now. It's something I'd explore after the draft though. Let Washington draft Risacher and then 'figure it out over the summer' strategy. I'm not giving top picks in 25 or 26, but there are other picks and players I'd consider when rounding out this team.

[rascal]

No, that's a perfectly reasonable take.

No chance Castle goes past Hornets.

Topic is a bad defender with questionable shot and all those teams already have a playmaker. I think they wouldn't pick him even if he was healthy. It would be really upsetting if Spurs took Topic with #4.

Topic at 4 would be a horrible conservative pick by the Spurs. High chance he drops to 8 if they really want him. The Spurs have to draft Topic(at 8) at discount with his injury.

[mo7888]

To me it's the lack of shooting with no in between game either. Not gonna get to the basket if everyone can just drop back and take away the drive every possession.

I see the shooting differently. I'm not very worried about it. I expect him to be, at least, an average 3 pt guy if healthy. It's the 'if healthy' part that has me out on him right now.

[mo7888]

Topic at 4 would be a horrible conservative pick by the Spurs. High chance he drops to 8 if they really want him.

8 would be the ceiling, but until those medicals are scrutinized, I've dropped him to 12 for the time being.

[spurraider21]

ESPN's latest mock has the Spurs taking Dillingham at 4 and then Salaun at 8

ive said a bunch of times that to me the disaster version of this draft is one where we dont come away with any of Risacher/Dillingham/Sheppard (risacher appears unlikely enough to begin with), so this is ultimately an acceptable outcome to me. but its odd that they have the spurs taking Salaun at 8 with each of Castle, Knecht, Williams, and Holland on the board.

I get that Salaun has unique potential among that group... but he seems like the quintessential "year away from being a year away" guy and i dont think its wise to have guaranteed roster spots going to guys that we likely cant even begin to properly evaluate for 2 years

[rascal]

8 would be the ceiling, but until those medicals are scrutinized, I've dropped him to 12 for the time being.

So you are out on Topic for the Spurs. Spurs are most likely going to keep 4 and 8.

Spurs have to be smart and have the fortitude and strenght to not draft Topic at 4 even if they want him.

[Ariel]

ESPN's latest mock has the Spurs taking Dillingham at 4 and then Salaun at 8

ive said a bunch of times that to me the disaster version of this draft is one where we dont come away with any of Risacher/Dillingham/Sheppard (risacher appears unlikely enough to begin with), so this is ultimately an acceptable outcome to me. but its odd that they have the spurs taking Salaun at 8 with each of Castle, Knecht, Williams, and Holland on the board.

I get that Salaun has unique potential among that group... but he seems like the quintessential "year away from being a year away" guy and i dont think its wise to have guaranteed roster spots going to guys that we likely cant even begin to properly evaluate for 2 years
It's a stupid board, I really like Dillingham but I seriously doubt the Spurs would take him at 8, let alone 4. The way things are shaping up, the most likely option at 4 is Castle, BY FAR. Dillingham would probably also be available at 8, yet sadly I believe the Spurs will pass for a Salaun type, triggering back my Primo/Sengun PTSD.

[spurraider21]

It's a stupid board, I really like Dillingham but I seriously doubt the Spurs would take him at 8, let alone 4. The way things are shaping up, the most likely option at 4 is Castle, BY FAR. Dillingham would probably also be available at 8, yet sadly I believe the Spurs will pass for a Salaun type, triggering back my Primo/Sengun PTSD.
taking castle at 4 as the sole solution to the PG position would already trigger my primo PTSD

if Sheppard is preferable to Dillingham i'd be fine with that too

[rascal]

It's a stupid board, I really like Dillingham but I really doubt the Spurs would take him at 8, let alone 4. The way things are shaping up, I think the most likely option at 4 is Castle, BY FAR. I think Dillingham would also be available at 8, yet sadly I believe the Spurs will pass for a Salaun type, triggering back my Primo/Sengun PTSD.

yes, if anyone has been following the Spurs fo they like to draft players who can play defense even if they need work on 3 pt shooting. Castle fits exactly how they like to draft outside he isn't a foreign player.

The Spurs value versatility, players who can play a couple of different positions. Castle isn't totally worthless on offense as he's solid shooting inside the paint and finishing at the rim.

[Kevin]

Supply and Demand would seem to indicate that you take the defender at 4 and the shooter at 8. There's only 1 elite defender and at least 3, if not 4, shooters available.

Disagree.

Defenders with no jumper:

Sarr
Castle
Saluan
Williams
Holland
Matas

Shooters:
Reed
Dilly
Knecht

Excluded:
Clingan (Center)
ZR (cant call him a shooter based on his overall body of work but you also cant say he has no jumper.)
Topic (he cannot shoot or defend)

I count seven non shooter plus a questionable shooter in ZR to three legit shooters.

Gotta take the shooter first and then go defense.

[mo7888]

So you are out on Topic for the Spurs. Spurs are most likely going to keep 4 and 8.

Spurs have to be smart and have the fortitude and strenght to not draft Topic at 4 even if they want him.

I am out on him for our two picks right now. That could change based on medical reviews, but I'm not risking a pick on him based on where things stand right now.

[LeBowen]

yes, if anyone has been following the Spurs fo they like to draft players who can play defense even if they need work on 3 pt shooting.

And somehow almost everyone on the roster except Wemby is an awful defender.


Castle fits exactly how they like to draft outside he isn't a foreign player.

They passed on Jovic with not one, but two pick.
A year before that everyone expected Sengun pick, didn't happen.

[sfernald]

I made the mistake of watching some Donovan Clingan tourny highlights. Knowing Ume loves D so much, I don’t think there’s any way in hell they pass on him. At the end of the day he is a weapon they just don’t have, he might just be the missing piece to get them in the playoffs. If Naz, Gobert & CAT can figure it out, I’m sure Al and Don can figure it out.

Now having said that, if he drops to Spurs I think he is the next best player to draft and I think
we just have to take him and figure it out with Wemby. There’s advantages and disadvantages and you
may have to customize the rest of the roster to fit them but what I said above about Houston’s bigs applies equally well to Spurs.

They will probably at some point have to be ready to handle the Wolves in the playoffs and I think they need to get bigger to do that.

Welcome the new twin towers!


https://youtu.be/xnwDKnvv3H8?si=DRu4MkK9whoNX2cB

[mo7888]

Disagree.

Defenders with no jumper:

Sarr
Castle
Saluan
Williams
Holland
Matas

Shooters:
Reed
Dilly
Knecht

Excluded:
Clingan (Center)
ZR (cant call him a shooter based on his overall body of work but you also cant say he has no jumper.)
Topic (he cannot shoot or defend)

I count seven non shooter plus a questionable shooter in ZR to three legit shooters.

Gotta take the shooter first and then go defense.

Sarr- I'll give you that, but he'll be gone before we pick
Castle- He's the tip backcourt defender
Saluan- You can really call him a top defender yet
Williams- plays D and can shoot, but has shown elite capabilities in either spot yet
Holland- I'll give you Holland
Matas- I don't think you can consider him a top defender yet either. He's will, but He's not there.

So, that gives you two defenders on the list in our range..

Shooters:
Reed
Dilly
Knecht

Yep, and that gives you 3 shooters... If you're going D with one of those picks, it has to be Castle at 4.

[exstatic]

I agree with Baseline, I think it smoke screen to get a team to trade up to trade for him maybe work something out with the Grizz.

I don’t think it’s even that complicated. Seems to be just analysts guessing and throwing spaghetti against the wall.

[DAF86]

You realize that Sochan’s 3G% went up 60 points this past season, right? Our worst problem is defense, and I think you address that first. YMMV.

And he still costs us because opposing teams don't respect his shot. Which goes to show you that even with improvement, these non-shooters seldom become non-liabilities, tbh.

[spurraider21]

I made the mistake of watching some Donovan Clingan tourny highlights. Knowing Ume loves D so much, I don’t think there’s any way in hell they pass on him. At the end of the day he is a weapon they just don’t have, he might just be the missing piece to get them in the playoffs. If Naz, Gobert & CAT can figure it out, I’m sure Al and Don can figure it out.

Now having said that, if he drops to Spurs I think he is the next best player to draft and I think
we just have to take him and figure it out with Wemby. There’s advantages and disadvantages and you
may have to customize the rest of the roster to fit them but what I said above about Houston’s bigs applies equally well to Spurs.

They will probably at some point have to be ready to handle the Wolves in the playoffs and I think they need to get bigger to do that.

Welcome the new twin towers!


https://youtu.be/xnwDKnvv3H8?si=DRu4MkK9whoNX2cB
Naz and KAT are both 40% 3 point shooters, and Naz is an incredibly mobile defender

i dont disagree that Houston could go Clingan, im just sayin thats not the good argument for it. my thing with the Houston/Clingan fit is that they also traded for Steven Adams, unless they are writing him off

Clingan/Spurs pairing has a lot of projection required. Wemby clearly looked more comfortable and impressive playing the 5 and without another big clogging the lane. but that could also be a function of his outside shot not being as good as it can get, and his ball handling being quite loose for much of the year (got better at this). defensively we know he was fine as a 4, but was more impactful as a 5.

part of the appeal is the spurs were very weak rebounding aside from Wemby. sochan got better toward the end of the season, but any time wemby moved over to contest a shot, we gave up putback layups because nobody else could or would box out and cover wemby's man. clingan/wemby together solves that.

the other big appeal to me is Clingan's passing. the spurs struggled all year with entry passes. ironically, wemby was our best entry passer all year. clingan is a very good passer and the high-low stuff would be fun. the big projection required is Clingan actually having a jumper to the point where he becomes a Brook Lopez esque threat. lopez isnt some sharpshooter. his career high from 3 was in 22-23 when he averaged about 37%. basically would want him to get to where (again, ironically) we expected Zollins to be

to me its just so messy with so many if's that i dont think its worth it, particularly at 4

collins/wemby lineups performed poorly (though a lot of that overlapped with point sochan nonsense). bassey/wemby lineups were also bad before bassey got hurt. barlow/wemby lineups were ok and only slightly negative, but that was aided by barlow's mobility enabling him to cover more on the perimeter

with that said, some minimal minutes together along with Clingan owning the second unit is potentially valuable enough on its own

[sfernald]

I don't see that being a big problem, even if it pushes my favorite 4/8 results off the table. Clearly I don't want Risacher that much, but that's repeating myself.

I take the Dill-man 4, but I've been considering that anyway. Either:

- If the team is high on Sheppard, they're taking him at 4. Few of us like Topic, but he's in play. So the FO may not be bothered at all.

- Barring those, I'm probably believing Sheppard and Clingan are attractive to teams in the next slots down to 10. I know there's not much time, but see what the appetite is from Detroit, Memphis, etc., to move up.

- Game out what would happen at 8 if the above happens. I'm sure the team is working out Buzelis and Cody Williams and these other guys, too. In the end, you can trade out of that spot if you get your Dillingham/Sheppard/whatever at 4 and don't like the wings left at 8.

Having said that what are your thoughts on this Memphis/Spurs trade? I assume we would pick Tiddy or Cody at 9.

https://i.postimg.cc/L4btbdGk/IMG-6228.jpg

[sfernald]

Naz and KAT are both 40% 3 point shooters, and Naz is an incredibly mobile defender

i dont disagree that Houston could go Clingan, im just sayin thats not the good argument for it. my thing with the Houston/Clingan fit is that they also traded for Steven Adams, unless they are writing him off

In the highlights there is highlight of him sinking a three. I’m not saying he’s a three point shooter but he had beautiful form. I think he could develop a shot. Would have to check his free throw percentage. What I like most about him is his BBIQ. He’s not just a dumb big. He has a bit of Bill Walton in him if I may say.

But man what a defensive pair they would make.

[BatManu20]

Having said that what are your thoughts on this Memphis/Spurs trade? I assume we would pick Tiddy or Cody at 9.

https://i.postimg.cc/L4btbdGk/IMG-6228.jpg

Marcus Smart is 30 years old with only 2 years left on his deal. He doesn't fit the timeline at all. Would make no sense for us, especially if we take Castle at 4. Hard pass.

[BatManu20]

I'd be happy with Castle and Reed with 4+8

I don't see Reed making it past Charlotte tbh. They're reportedly high on him and he'd form a nice backcourt pairing with LaMelo. Blazers also desperately need shooting, but I have them taking Knecht at 7 as they need a SF and not a SG, which would create log-jam with Scoot and Simons. Unless they'd want him coming off the bench, I think Knecht makes more sense for them.

[KobesAchilles]

yes, if anyone has been following the Spurs fo they like to draft players who can play defense even if they need work on 3 pt shooting. Castle fits exactly how they like to draft outside he isn't a foreign player.

The Spurs value versatility, players who can play a couple of different positions. Castle isn't totally worthless on offense as he's solid shooting inside the paint and finishing at the rim.
Besides Victor, we haven't drafted anybody who can play defense...

[Ariel]

I don't see Reed making it past Charlotte tbh. They're reportedly high on him and he'd form a nice backcourt pairing with LaMelo. Blazers also desperately need shooting, but I have them taking Knecht at 7 as they need a SF and not a SG, which would create log-jam with Scoot and Simons. Unless they'd want him coming off the bench, I think Knecht makes more sense for them.
Portland (with Mike Schmitz) goes for upside, not fit. They probably take a Holland, Buzelis, Cody Williams or even Salaun.

[Mr. Body]

You really think Poole, Kuzma, or even Kispert enter the equation when deciding who to pick at 2 for a team that is probably tanking for 3 more seasons? Really?
If they think Risacher is the best fit, he's their guy. I think Atlanta probably takes him TBH, but otherwise he's likely gone at 2 unless the Spurs are absolutely crazy about him and make a ridiculous offer for him (hope not).


Yes, really. We know Risacher has no self-creation skills whatsoever. He fully depends on others getting him the ball. You have two chuckers. You have two pretty good facilitators in Jones and Deni. But you already have one sharpshooter, as I say, who is probably as good as Risacher will ever become. And you have a guy you selected last year who needs development on the wing.

Why would you do that to yourself? None of these players deserve a number 2 pick above the others, so why would you pick the one you can't develop properly whose best outcome is Gradey Dick?

[BatManu20]

I made the mistake of watching some Donovan Clingan tourny highlights. Knowing Ume loves D so much, I don’t think there’s any way in hell they pass on him. At the end of the day he is a weapon they just don’t have, he might just be the missing piece to get them in the playoffs. If Naz, Gobert & CAT can figure it out, I’m sure Al and Don can figure it out.

Now having said that, if he drops to Spurs I think he is the next best player to draft and I think
we just have to take him and figure it out with Wemby. There’s advantages and disadvantages and you
may have to customize the rest of the roster to fit them but what I said above about Houston’s bigs applies equally well to Spurs.

They will probably at some point have to be ready to handle the Wolves in the playoffs and I think they need to get bigger to do that.

Welcome the new twin towers!


https://youtu.be/xnwDKnvv3H8?si=DRu4MkK9whoNX2cB

Don't see HOU taking Clingan honestly, unless they plan on trading Sengun (doubtful). Playing them together would draw Sengun away from the basket in PnR, which is the last thing HOU wants. He already struggles at the 5 as is. They would then have 2 guys who don't excel against PnR on the floor at the same time. That's just not a great pairing imo, unless they plan on using Clingan off the bench (doubtful). Would be surprised if the Rockets went that route.

Think they're much more likely to draft FVV's replacement, whether it be Topic, Reed, or Dilly. The first two make more sense in terms of fit, as Dilly is ball-dominant and you don't want to take the ball out of Jalen Green's hands and have him just standing around in the corner. Remember, Green went off this year after Sengun went down with his injury and he was able to have the ball in his hands a lot more. He finally looked like the elite prospect they drafted 2nd Overall. Doubt they want to stunt that with Dilly. Topic or Sheppard make way more sense imo. But who knows, who they draft will determine the rest of the lottery cause the draft starts at the 3rd Pick this year imo.

[rascal]

Besides Victor, we haven't drafted anybody who can play defense...

Sochan was drafted for his defense. But agree he isn't a strong defender. Spurs missed on Sochan

[mo7888]

Sochan was drafted for his defense. But agree he isn't a strong defender. Spurs missed on Sochan

I wonder what type of pick Sochan would get you in this draft? Since it's a weak draft, could somebody in the top 10 trade their pick for him?

[Vienna]

ESPN's latest mock has the Spurs taking Dillingham at 4 and then Salaun at 8


I‘m not very high on their mock and also don‘t like the logic and reasoning they use, not only regarding the Spurs. But I wouldn‘t rule out the option that the Spurs will pick Salaun. Spurs might go the save route with Castle at 4 and take the flier at 8.
btw. he played his last game in France yesterday. Not a good one. 7 points while shooting 1-8 from 3.

[spurraider21]

I‘m not very high on their mock and also don‘t like the logic and reasoning they use, not only regarding the Spurs. But I wouldn‘t rule out the option that the Spurs will pick Salaun. Spurs might go the save route with Castle at 4 and take the flier at 8.
btw. he played his last game in France yesterday. Not a good one. 7 points while shooting 1-8 from 3.
salaun is not in my top 10, and i wouldnt be a big fan of taking him at 8. but if its paired with a dillingham/sheppard pick i'll take that outcome

i would be quite upset with a castle/salaun pairing because imo that is 2 big projects you are taking on (if castle is expected to be a point guard, that is). castle as a defense first, complementary SG/SF is fine, as we was with the huskies, but not someone i would take at #4. castle as a PG feels forced and i really dont see PG ability at this point. he could get there, but i wouldnt expect meaningful contribution at that position from him early

[BatManu20]

Salaun at 8 would suck imo. That's a big reach for him. Kid is super raw and nowhere near ready to contribute. I have him somewhere between 13-16 in a weak draft as a high upside swing. If we reach on him at that spot, I'd be pretty disappointed tbh.

[sfernald]

​
Yeah, I don't want to touch Mantas as I don't see him having the handles to play SF, I think he is destined to either player PF or be out of the league. I also don't see him fitting in with Wemby as a lot of his offense would push Wemby out to the 3 ball line. He can't shoot and he does not play physical at all to many times he does nothing on offense or defense he just disappears for long stretches of time

You know who Matas reminds me of? The European Blake Griffin himself!
https://i.postimg.cc/FKwSvKfg/IMG-6229.jpg

[Obstructed_View]

I wonder what type of pick Sochan would get you in this draft? Since it's a weak draft, could somebody in the top 10 trade their pick for him?

1. Sochan was a bad pick.
2. Sochan is a bad player
3. Wonder if we can trade Sochan for a pick higher than the position he was picked at.

...and scene.
/SPURSFAN

[mudyez]

So can we agree that the best strategy would be to take...

Risacher->Sarr->Castle->Buzelis/Reed in that order with #4

...and take whatever PG you like at #8...or go Salaun if you like to gamble (and got Reed or Risacher with the former pick)?

...just don't blow your load on a true PG at #4!?

[ChumpDumper]

So can we agree that the best strategy would be to take...

Risacher->Sarr->Castle->Buzelis/Reed in that order with #4

...and take whatever PG you like at #8...or go Salaun if you like to gamble (and got Reed or Risacher with the former pick)?

...just don't blow your load on a true PG at #4!?

Who's the true PG? Topic?

Yikes.

[mo7888]

1. Sochan was a bad pick.
2. Sochan is a bad player
3. Wonder if we can trade Sochan for a pick higher than the position he was picked at.

...and scene.
/SPURSFAN

This draft is much worse.... that's an important part of the mix...

And I never said Sochan was a bad player...

[Mr. Body]

So can we agree that the best strategy would be to take...

Risacher->Sarr->Castle->Buzelis/Reed in that order with #4

...and take whatever PG you like at #8...or go Salaun if you like to gamble (and got Reed or Risacher with the former pick)?

...just don't blow your load on a true PG at #4!?

No?

[spurraider21]

So can we agree that the best strategy would be to take...

Risacher->Sarr->Castle->Buzelis/Reed in that order with #4

...and take whatever PG you like at #8...or go Salaun if you like to gamble (and got Reed or Risacher with the former pick)?

...just don't blow your load on a true PG at #4!?
if risacher is there at 4, its a snap pick, and then you hope and pray one of the kentucky guys is there at 8

if risacher is not there at 4, you take the kentucky guy of your choosing (or whichever is left), and then take whatever wing/forward you like from what is left at 8

imo thats it and that is all

[CGD]

Spurs issues

shooting and defense

Topic's weaknesses

shooting and defense

Sure, but to be fair “Spurs issues” also includes (perhaps most critically) someone who can get Wemby the damn ball.

That’s the theory of Topic, which most of the other top prospects lack.

[baseline bum]

ESPN's latest mock has the Spurs taking Dillingham at 4 and then Salaun at 8

ive said a bunch of times that to me the disaster version of this draft is one where we dont come away with any of Risacher/Dillingham/Sheppard (risacher appears unlikely enough to begin with), so this is ultimately an acceptable outcome to me. but its odd that they have the spurs taking Salaun at 8 with each of Castle, Knecht, Williams, and Holland on the board.

I get that Salaun has unique potential among that group... but he seems like the quintessential "year away from being a year away" guy and i dont think its wise to have guaranteed roster spots going to guys that we likely cant even begin to properly evaluate for 2 years

I'm good with completely swinging for the fences at #8 if they get Risacher / Dilly / Sheppard with #4 so if Salaun kills workouts I wouldn't be mad. Same for Holland and Williams. I don't believe for a second that Castle will be there at 8.

[CGD]

Topic at 4 would be a horrible conservative pick by the Spurs. High chance he drops to 8 if they really want him. The Spurs have to draft Topic(at 8) at discount with his injury.

lol at “discounts.” The only thing that matters if what the other teams drafting ahead of 8 think.

It’s analogous to max salaries: no way in hell Evan Mobley is worth a max on the merits, but you best believe CLE is about to offer him one. There’s no “discount” because he’s behind schedule.

[BatManu20]

PATFO put a lot into these guy's personal workouts and scrimmages during the pre-draft process so it'll be interesting to see who plays well during those workouts and who struggles. Topic might come in and ball out during a scrimmage and the Spurs might fall in love. Same with Sheppard. You just never know tbh. Eager to see how these guys look once they get to SA for their private workouts. That'll tell us a lot more and paint a clearer picture for us.

[sfernald]

Don't see HOU taking Clingan honestly, unless they plan on trading Sengun (doubtful). Playing them together would draw Sengun away from the basket in PnR, which is the last thing HOU wants. He already struggles at the 5 as is. They would then have 2 guys who don't excel against PnR on the floor at the same time. That's just not a great pairing imo, unless they plan on using Clingan off the bench (doubtful). Would be surprised if the Rockets went that route.

Think they're much more likely to draft FVV's replacement, whether it be Topic, Reed, or Dilly. The first two make more sense in terms of fit, as Dilly is ball-dominant and you don't want to take the ball out of Jalen Green's hands and have him just standing around in the corner. Remember, Green went off this year after Sengun went down with his injury and he was able to have the ball in his hands a lot more. He finally looked like the elite prospect they drafted 2nd Overall. Doubt they want to stunt that with Dilly. Topic or Sheppard make way more sense imo. But who knows, who they draft will determine the rest of the lottery cause the draft starts at the 3rd Pick this year imo.

If that’s the case and they stick with Sengun they will always lack a true anchor and rim protector. I think they’re better trading away fools gold Al. They should be able to get a true star if they include him and Jalen Green in a trade!

[rascal]

I'm good with completely swinging for the fences at #8 if they get Risacher / Dilly / Sheppard with #4 so if Salaun kills workouts I wouldn't be mad. Same for Holland and Williams. I don't believe for a second that Castle will be there at 8.

Top 3
1. Sarr
2. Clingan/ Risacher
3. Risacher/Clingan

Agree if you want Castle take him at 4.

One or both of the Kentucky guards will be there at 8 or go Buz/Salaun if they are gone, also have Topic.

[CGD]

So can we agree that the best strategy would be to take...

Risacher->Sarr->Castle->Buzelis/Reed in that order with #4

...and take whatever PG you like at #8...or go Salaun if you like to gamble (and got Reed or Risacher with the former pick)?

...just don't blow your load on a true PG at #4!?

Honestly, I think the better strategy if Sarr/ZR/Dill go 1/2/3 in some order is to build a package around 4/Keldon/whatever else for Garland.

And then at 8 take best of left of Castle, Topic, Williams, Salaun. Look to 2025 for your elite wing.

[BatManu20]

Top 3
1. Sarr
2. Clingan/ Risacher
3. Risacher/Clingan

Agree if you want Castle take him at 4.

One or both of the Kentucky guards will be there at 8 or go Buz/Salaun if they are gone.

No guarantee of this. I'm pretty confident Reed will be gone by 8. Both could absolutely be gone. Someone like Utah who has multiple FRP's and needs a PG could trade up and jump the Spurs for Dilly or Sheppard. You just never know tbh. That's why you draft your guy at 4.

[Truckules]

I'm good with completely swinging for the fences at #8 if they get Risacher / Dilly / Sheppard with #4 so if Salaun kills workouts I wouldn't be mad. Same for Holland and Williams. I don't believe for a second that Castle will be there at 8.

Draft strategy has to be accounted for. The likely scenario is that Risacher is gone in the top 3 but Castle isn't. I agree that Castle isn't there at 8, but I think one of Dillingham and Sheppard would be. It makes more sense to take Castle 4 and then take whoever's left at 8.

[rascal]

No guarantee of this. I'm pretty confident Reed will be gone by 8. Both could absolutely be gone. Someone like Utah who has multiple FRP's and needs a PG could trade up and jump the Spurs for Dilly or Sheppard. You just never know tbh. That's why you draft your guy at 4.

No you can't draft scared. Afraid someone will trade for a player. Both Kentucky guards are not likely to be gone by pick 8.

[BatManu20]

No you can't draft scared. Afraid someone will trade for a player. Both Kentucky guards are not likely to be gone by pick 8.

Flawed logic. Hoping your guy is going to fall to you at 8 isn't smart. You take your guy at 4, whether they think that's Castle or Sheppard or Dilly or whoever, and then hope for the best with the 8th Pick. You don't say, "We like X player the best, but we think he'll be there in 4 picks so we're going to take Y player instead and hope X player falls to us to maximize value." Draft your guy and hope someone else you like falls to you at 8. That's not "drafting scared," that's just being smart.

[CGD]

I wonder what type of pick Sochan would get you in this draft? Since it's a weak draft, could somebody in the top 10 trade their pick for him?

It’s have to be a good pick in this draft considering that a much much crappier version of him, in Holland, will go Top 8…

[spurraider21]

Honestly, I think the better strategy if Sarr/ZR/Dill go 1/2/3 in some order is to build a package around 4/Keldon/whatever else for Garland.

And then at 8 take best of left of Castle, Topic, Williams, Salaun. Look to 2025 for your elite wing.
in that scenario i'd take Sheppard at 4 and then wing of choice at 8. easy flowchart

[ChumpDumper]

No you can't draft scared. Afraid someone will trade for a player. Both Kentucky guards are not likely to be gone by pick 8.

You want to draft Castle at #4 because you're scared someone will draft him before #8. It's just how it goes with two such picks.

[rascal]

Flawed logic. Hoping your guy is going to fall to you at 8 isn't smart. You take your guy at 4, whether they think that's Castle or Sheppard or Dilly or whoever, and then hope for the best with the 8th Pick. You don't say, "We like X player the best, but we think he'll be there in 4 picks so we're going to take Y player instead and hope X player falls to us to maximize value." Draft your guy and hope someone else you like falls to you at 8. That's not "drafting scared," that's just being smart.

This is flawed logic.

You have to look at how to maximise BOTH picks. Spurs have the luxury to do that with two top 8 picks.

If they think Castle isn't going to be there at 8 but there is more of a chance Dillingham will be there but they like Castle the 2nd most after Dillingham, take Castle at 4 and play the odds dillingham falls to 8.
You draft the player least likely to fall to 8 first out of the top 2.

[BatManu20]

This is flawed logic.

You have to look at how to maximise BOTH picks. Spurs have the luxury to do that with two top 8 picks.

If they think Castle isn't going to be there at 8 but there is more of a chance Dillingham will be there but they like Castle the 2nd most after Dillingham, take Castle at 4 and play the odds dillingham falls to 8.
You draft the player least likely to fall to 8 first out of the top 2.

Agree to disagree. I'm not losing out on my favorite player who I think will best help my ball club because I think there's a chance he'll still be there in 4 picks. That's silly. Why risk losing out on him at all when he's right there in your lap..? Especially in a weak draft where teams are more likely to trade down in this scenario. Not worth the risk imo.

[MaNu4Tres]

Spurs high on Sheppard.

[NASpurs]

https://www.spurstalk.com/joshua-primo-drafted-san-antonio-spurs-thoughts/

I'm just going back and reading some of the past write ups by LJ after the draft picks were made. The word "flashes" appears 5 times in the Josh Primo article :lol

Also... this (lol):


10) I can’t continue this write-up about Primo without talking about this kid’s character. It’s actually one of his main selling points. As I wrote on the Big Board:“Today, neither Joshua Primo nor Jaden Springer are much to write home about. But both players show enough promise that they could be worth a gamble. Primo, 18, is the youngest player in the draft. The 6-foot-5 guard is a high-character kid who has shown flashes as a shooter and playmaker.”

By all accounts, Primo is an outstanding human being. The Toronto native is as smart as a whip, his teammates love him and he has outstanding leadership traits for his age. At the combine, many scouts said he was the best communicator of any of the players.

The Spurs value character more than any team in the NBA so, in that sense, it’s not a surprise they went with Primo. He’s an A+ in that category. Everyone believes he’ll come in and work as hard as he can and will be a natural fit in an NBA locker room.

Only faith I have right now that the correct player will be chosen is because now you have a gameplan and you have your franchise player. Outside of that, the recent picks are still lackluster and leave a lot to be desired.

[TD 21]

- If the Rockets don't trade the pick, they might select Clingan because I'm not sure they're sold on Sengun as a long term centerpiece.

- Sheppard may struggle at the POA, but he should thrive as a team defender which when coupled with his shooting/secondary play making should make him one of the best bets to be positive impact in the draft.

- Risacher obviously won't get to 4, but who cares if he can't create? Neither can Porter Jr., Caldwell-Pope, Gobert, McDaniels, Turner, Nesmith, Gafford, Jones Jr., etc. and those teams aren't worse off for it.

- I don't want Castle or Garland, but the former only makes sense as a prelude to the latter, with Jones involved to make sense of this roster.

[scott]

It's a stupid board, I really like Dillingham but I seriously doubt the Spurs would take him at 8, let alone 4. The way things are shaping up, the most likely option at 4 is Castle, BY FAR. Dillingham would probably also be available at 8, yet sadly I believe the Spurs will pass for a Salaun type, triggering back my Primo/Sengun PTSD.

The PTSD will be real if we pick Salaun. While he has some intriguing characteristics, it just doesn't make sense on the Wemby timeline. If he had been drafted in the Primo year or the Sochan year, it would make sense - but I don't see the logic the Spurs to have this raw ball of clay that needs developing while we are trying to improve to a playoff team like OKC did*. It would be very much an Ousmane Dieng situation (speaking of OKC), who I'm guessing will never actually find a place on that team because his developmental timeline does match the rest of the teams.

*If PAFTO plans for us to continue to suck as for a few more years so we can "not skip any steps", then Salaun might make sense... but then we need to question the overall sanity and decision making of PAFTO.

[sfernald]

There’s no way the Spurs are leaking they are big fans of him if they actually are lol.

It’s either a smokescreen from the Spurs or someone with ‘sauces’ making shit up or assuming shit.

The reality is this is most likely coming from Castle’s agent and that it’s based on truth.

[scott]

And he still costs us because opposing teams don't respect his shot. Which goes to show you that even with improvement, these non-shooters seldom become non-liabilities, tbh.

Sochan's 3PT% in 2024 was 27.5%. exstatic thinks we should have a parade or some shit because he improved from embarrassingly bad to shockingly abysmal.

[rascal]

Agree to disagree. I'm not losing out on my favorite player who I think will best help my ball club because I think there's a chance he'll still be there in 4 picks. That's silly. Why risk losing out on him at all when he's right there in your lap..? Especially in a weak draft where teams are more likely to trade down in this scenario. Not worth the risk imo.

This is what I mean. You are afraid of the risk although he's less likely to get drafted before 8 because of team's needs from 5-7.

I'm willing to take the risk and get maximum return on BOTH picks by getting my top two players if I hit on both of my top two picks. I'm not afraid of the RISK.

[PhantomDashCam]

1793287825900662919

Bub is trending upwards (some now even have him top ten FWIW).

Feel he’ll be in play at #8 when all is said and done.

[TD 21]

Spurs high on Sheppard.

Not questioning it (was obvious long ago), but source?


The PTSD will be real if we pick Salaun. While he has some intriguing characteristics, it just doesn't make sense on the Wemby timeline. If he had been drafted in the Primo year or the Sochan year, it would make sense - but I don't see the logic the Spurs to have this raw ball of clay that needs developing while we are trying to improve to a playoff team like OKC did*. It would be very much an Ousmane Dieng situation (speaking of OKC), who I'm guessing will never actually find a place on that team because his developmental timeline does match the rest of the teams.

*If PAFTO plans for us to continue to suck as for a few more years so we can "not skip any steps", then Salaun might make sense... but then we need to question the overall sanity and decision making of PAFTO.

Castle is not much different and yet many are on board with him. I'm not saying he can't, in a vacuum, play in the league, I'm saying he'd have trouble doing so with a team that already lacks shot creation and can't space the floor.

[scott]

I wonder what type of pick Sochan would get you in this draft? Since it's a weak draft, could somebody in the top 10 trade their pick for him?

IMO, Sochan might get us a pick in the 20s in this draft if done before the draft. Teams will place a higher value in the unknown outcome of a draft pick than the relatively known quantity of Sochan (and yes, Sochan can/will continue to develop, but teams will have a high confidence level of what they feel Sochan can become as opposed to the full range of outcomes for a potential draft pick).

[scott]

Castle is not much different and yet many are on board with him. I'm not saying he can't, in a vacuum, play in the league, I'm saying he'd have trouble doing so with a team that already lacks shot creation and can't space the floor.

I see zero comparison between the two. Castle may have a limited ceiling because of his offensive limitations, but I don't see him as remotely the same kind of project in Salaun is. Obviously we're all free to disagree.

[Mr. Body]

Not questioning it (was obvious long ago), but source?



Castle is not much different and yet many are on board with him. I'm not saying he can't, in a vacuum, play in the league, I'm saying he'd have trouble doing so with a team that already lacks shot creation and can't space the floor.

Sorry, are you saying Castle is as raw as Salaun? A guy who was the lead perimeter defender on a ruthlessly dominant NCAA championship team, where he fit in seamlessly often as a lead guard?

[CGD]

Spurs high on Sheppard.

Oh yeah? Did you see that somewhere? Could you share.

[BacktoBasics]

Sochan's 3PT% in 2024 was 27.5%. exstatic thinks we should have a parade or some shit because he improved from embarrassingly bad to shockingly abysmal.

For whatever it’s worth I see Sochan 3pt % stats go from 24.6 to 30.8 while doubling the amount of makes. All while playing through a really rough “experiment”. If he improves his 3pt % half as much to the next season as he did from his rookie year we should be pretty happy with that.

I feel Sochan the second half of the season was looking quite a bit better until they sat him to finish out the tank.

[BacktoBasics]

IMO, Sochan might get us a pick in the 20s in this draft if done before the draft. Teams will place a higher value in the unknown outcome of a draft pick than the relatively known quantity of Sochan (and yes, Sochan can/will continue to develop, but teams will have a high confidence level of what they feel Sochan can become as opposed to the full range of outcomes for a potential draft pick).
I agree. People value if not over value the unknown at times.

[TD 21]

I see zero comparison between the two. Castle may have a limited ceiling because of his offensive limitations, but I don't see him as remotely the same kind of project in Salaun is. Obviously we're all free to disagree.

Castle is more NBA ready in a vacuum, but he'll have trouble looking like an immediate NBA player on this roster all the same.

Also, let's not presume they're looking for or are prioritizing two day one rotation players out of this draft.

[Raven]

Sochan was drafted for his defense. But agree he isn't a strong defender. Spurs missed on Sochan

last three months he was picking up every teams best player. Stop with the negative propaganda.

[BatManu20]

This kid has Spurs written all over him I fear. Gonna be a 3-4 year project.

1792194083882197488

[BatManu20]

Salaun is the 6’10 stretch-4 PATFO wish Sochan was tbh. He’s nowhere near ready, but that’s likely what PATFO will see in him. Feels like a very Spursy pick at 8.

He didn’t partake at the Combine because his season is still going on, but would be eager to see his actual measurements. He looks a legit 6’9-6’10 barefoot with long arms.

1744990671998439673

1790886934174130187

[The Truth #6]

As terrible as Washington has been, I have to think they understand at this point that Kuzma and Poole aren't going to major components of any winning seasons in the future. I can't imagine any team passing on someone they think of as a BPA because there's a Poole or Kuzma currently under contract.

True. I heard a story that Poole played point towards the end and did much better. If true, Tyus may leave for that reason and a thousand more. Drafting two forwards and rolling with the Jones Brothers isn't horrifying, especially if Castle is not available.

[duncan2150]

Salaun is the 6’10 stretch-4 PATFO wish Sochan was tbh. He’s nowhere near ready, but that’s likely what PATFO will see in him. Feels like a very Spursy pick at 8. He didn’t partake at the Combine because his season is still going on, but would be eager to see his actual measurements. He looks a legit 6’9-6’10 barefoot with long arms. 1744990671998439673 1790886934174130187 like i said not my first choice but he's more ready than most people think The measurements will be interesting, he'll do it in june with the other european prospects

[Mr. Body]

But... Salaun shoots .316 from deep. How is that a stretch four? Tankathon lists his good qualities as... ... ... ... ... draft age.

That's it.

I get people here have a hate boner about Sochan with the whole PG thing I guess, but Salaun is nowhere near able to contribute the way Sochan does. He's just bad at everything.

[bevo]

I don't see Reed making it past Charlotte tbh. They're reportedly high on him and he'd form a nice backcourt pairing with LaMelo. Blazers also desperately need shooting, but I have them taking Knecht at 7 as they need a SF and not a SG, which would create log-jam with Scoot and Simons. Unless they'd want him coming off the bench, I think Knecht makes more sense for them.

Realistic or not, its would I think would be a good draft :)

[scott]

For whatever it’s worth I see Sochan 3pt % stats go from 24.6 to 30.8 while doubling the amount of makes. All while playing through a really rough “experiment”. If he improves his 3pt % half as much to the next season as he did from his rookie year we should be pretty happy with that.

I feel Sochan the second half of the season was looking quite a bit better until they sat him to finish out the tank.

That's not really what happened. Sochan had a strong November and January, then reverted to his mean, especially after the ASB.

October - 25.0
%November - 46.7%
December - 32.5%
January - 37.5%
February - 19.4%
March - 22.8%
April - DNP

[tbdog]

Didn't Sochan a few 20p games towards the end?

[duncan2150]

But... Salaun shoots .316 from deep. How is that a stretch four? Tankathon lists his good qualities as... ... ... ... ... draft age. That's it. I get people here have a hate boner about Sochan with the whole PG thing I guess, but Salaun is nowhere near able to contribute the way Sochan does. He's just bad at everything. He started the year shooting at 17% the first two months (7/41) so there's a legit improvement there and he finishes strong. sometimes numbers don't tell everything

[scott]

Re-listening to the Sam Vecenie's Game Theory Podcast on their post-lotto thoughts and he has Sarr as a Tier 3 player (note, he doesn't have anyone from this class as a Tier 1 or Tier 2, he's had 9 Tier 1 players over the last 4 drafts I think he said). He still mocks him #1, but that's an idea of how he feels about this draft.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/0QygNZkmnmfZGDmCSfQyqW?si=819609e0ec3b4b2a

[RC_Drunkford]

If the Spurs draft Salaun then it's most likely because of Wemby's inside info that he lives in the gym. It's not the worst approach to take a swing at a project with insane work ethic in a draft where almost every player has major deficiencies. With that being said, there are a lot of guys that I'm much higher on.

The Sochan bashing needs to stop. The kid legitemately took over some games in the 4th quarter. Most players struggle in their 2nd year. This 3rd year is where you should expect a major jump in production. That goes for Sochan, Branham and Wesley. If there is none, the last 2 guys can get traded.

[lefty20]

Feels like a lot of these debates are going in circles. None of these dudes are day one contributors. No matter who we pick, they're gonna be a 2-4 yr project due to their limitations on one side of the floor. Expecting a rookie from this year's draft class to make and immediate impact is setting yourself up for disappointment.

People may not wanna hear it, but our patience will be tested next year. The only way this team makes a substantial leap is if multiple players on roster make a leap or if we add NBA proven talent via FA/Trade.

[kobyz]

Salaun is the 6’10 stretch-4 PATFO wish Sochan was tbh. He’s nowhere near ready, but that’s likely what PATFO will see in him. Feels like a very Spursy pick at 8.

He didn’t partake at the Combine because his season is still going on, but would be eager to see his actual measurements. He looks a legit 6’9-6’10 barefoot with long arms.

1744990671998439673

1790886934174130187

And that he's doing while spurstalk saying he is raw af, so how the hell are you against drafting him 8? If he's such raw just imagine what he'll do in the future

[kobyz]

On a side note, Just wanted to know, are we writing off Malaki Branham as a PG? I thought the experience with him at that position wasn't that bad and showed some glimpses...

[spurraider21]

- If the Rockets don't trade the pick, they might select Clingan because I'm not sure they're sold on Sengun as a long term centerpiece.

- Sheppard may struggle at the POA, but he should thrive as a team defender which when coupled with his shooting/secondary play making should make him one of the best bets to be positive impact in the draft.

- Risacher obviously won't get to 4, but who cares if he can't create? Neither can Porter Jr., Caldwell-Pope, Gobert, McDaniels, Turner, Nesmith, Gafford, Jones Jr., etc. and those teams aren't worse off for it.

- I don't want Castle or Garland, but the former only makes sense as a prelude to the latter, with Jones involved to make sense of this roster.
i dont buy this at all man. in his age 21 season he averaged 21/9/5... he'll stick around. sure he's similar to sabonis, who the pacers traded, but that was after his age 24 season. at 21, sabonis was putting up 11/8/2.

i think they may take clingan, anyway, but not because they dont have faith in sengun

agree as to most of the rest

[NASpurs]

Feels like a lot of these debates are going in circles. None of these dudes are day one contributors. No matter who we pick, they're gonna be a 2-4 yr project due to their limitations on one side of the floor. Expecting a rookie from this year's draft class to make and immediate impact is setting yourself up for disappointment.

People may not wanna hear it, but our patience will be tested next year. The only way this team makes a substantial leap is if multiple players on roster make a leap or if we add NBA proven talent via FA/Trade.

I agree with this.

It's why I would love to trade these picks for a mid-20s year old position in need.

[spurraider21]

Salaun is a very attractive lump of clay but that type of player has no business going top 10

[Mugen]

Salaun is a very attractive lump of clay but that type of player has no business going top 10

In this draft, he should absolutely be in play as a Top 10 pick tbh.

[couchman]

I understand the desire to wait until 8 to get a guard because one of the top 4 guards is more likely to fall but I have Sheppard well above all other guard prospects.
If there is only one Tier 1 prospect left at 4 then you take him and let the chips fall where they may at 8.
Now, if there are two Tier one guys left at 4 (Say Risacher and Sheppard) then I think you prioritize the wing.

[Raven]

On a side note, Just wanted to know, are we writing off Malaki Branham as a PG? I thought the experience with him at that position wasn't that bad and showed some glimpses...

no. As a 6th man he can be the one handling the ball. He showed glimpses of breaking out, but of course he has to improve a lot. As a starter I'd say pass, he's not a good enough passer to justify playing with wemby.

[objective]

What makes Salaun any different than Kevin Knox? He was 6-9 in shoes, 7 foot wingspan, 18 on draft night, played real competition at Kentucky so he had the potential for the post Kentucky bounce

Scored 15 a game and shot 34% from 3 on 4.5 attempts, great dunks and threes highlights ... But just couldn't play basketball

I haven't watched the full games myself. But I will if they're on YouTube or NBA league pass and I'll be looking for something I heard in a draft podcast breakdown of Salaun (might have been No Ceilings): and that was that in between the dunks and threes seen in highlights where the rest of basketball happens that he was clueless and didn't know what was going on.

Very skeptical for now but need to watch games for myself

[Obstructed_View]

If that’s the case and they stick with Sengun they will always lack a true anchor and rim protector. I think they’re better trading away fools gold Al. They should be able to get a true star if they include him and Jalen Green in a trade!
Can we just start calling him Scola?

[BatManu20]

But... Salaun shoots .316 from deep. How is that a stretch four? Tankathon lists his good qualities as... ... ... ... ... draft age.

That's it.

I get people here have a hate boner about Sochan with the whole PG thing I guess, but Salaun is nowhere near able to contribute the way Sochan does. He's just bad at everything.

Don't hate Sochan. As a matter of fact, I’ve defended him more than most on here in game threads. And I agree that Salaun is a project. I’m just saying this is what I think PATFO are thinking in regards to Salaun, who no doubt is currently surging up draft boards. I fully expect him to go in the Lottery, and depending on his workouts, could even see him going top-10. Spurs happen to have the 8th pick and a need for another big on the roster as we’re currently undersized. And this kid happens to be 6’10+ with long arms while showing promising upside as a potential stretch-4. He’s also a friend of Wemby and his family’s. It’s easy to see why they’d be interested. That’s all I’m saying.

And 33% from 3 on 4 attempts/per, while certainly not great, stills shows promise for an 18 year-old big. He also shot 77% from the foul line this year, which suggests that 3P% could go up in time.

[spurraider21]

In this draft, he should absolutely be in play as a Top 10 pick tbh.
this draft is weak at the top in that there is no star power. there is no franchise foundational player (that we can tell), no "this guy will be an all star by year 3" type players.

its not like the guys in play between picks 7 and 15 are unusually weak. leave the samanic "one player away from being one player away" types to the end of the first where they belong, where some loaded contender just keep them in the oven for 2-3 years until they're ready. we are going to be absolutely churning through the bottom of the roster for the next 3 years. dont have room for that

[TD 21]

i dont buy this at all man. in his age 21 season he averaged 21/9/5... he'll stick around. sure he's similar to sabonis, who the pacers traded, but that was after his age 24 season. at 21, sabonis was putting up 11/8/2.

i think they may take clingan, anyway, but not because they dont have faith in sengun

agree as to most of the rest

:lmao At counting stats without context in '24. He's a classic high floor/low ceiling player.

I get the sense Udoka has some personnel say and he doesn't strike me as his type of player.

They also have a lot of assets and are in a market players are drawn too.

I'm not saying they'd trade him immediately or maybe even at all, just that they'd be open to anything with their roster if it gets them an All-NBA player.

[CGD]

I can live with Castle + Salaun.

In my view with these 2024 picks you draft for postional size, bbiq, and coachability. Pick up shooting in free agency, and trade for your next starting PG this or next year.

[spurraider21]

:lmao At counting stats without context in '24. He's a classic high floor/low ceiling player.

I get the sense Udoka has some personnel say and he doesn't strike me as his type of player.

They also have a lot of assets and are in a market players are drawn too.

I'm not saying they'd trade him immediately or maybe even at all, just that they'd be open to anything with their roster if it gets them an All-NBA player.
production matters

how can you call him low ceiling when he is putting up all star production at age 21?

yes, they are a place players can be drawn to. a playmaking big that gets everyone involved is also an attractive aspect of that team

[scott]

Don't hate Sochan. As a matter of fact, I’ve defended him more than most on here in game threads. And I agree that Salaun is a project. I’m just saying this is what I think PATFO are thinking in regards to Salaun, who no doubt is currently surging up draft boards. I fully expect him to go in the Lottery, and depending on his workouts, could even see him going top-10. Spurs happen to have the 8th pick and a need for another big on the roster as we’re currently undersized. And this kid happens to be 6’10+ with long arms while showing promising upside as a potential stretch-4. He’s also a friend of Wemby and his family’s. It’s easy to see why they’d be interested. That’s all I’m saying.

And 33% from 3 on 4 attempts/per, while certainly not great, stills shows promise for an 18 year-old big. He also shot 77% from the foul line this year, which suggests that 3P% could go up in time.

If we're only talking about 3pt ability - this certainly projects better than Sochan's college stats did (29.6% 3P%, 58.9% FT%), or Castle and Holland's shooting stats. So, at least in regard to the ability to develop a 3P shot, Salaun projects at least as well as any of those guys did. So I'm less concerned about how Salaun projects as a shooter than how he projects at everything else.

Also, not trying to imply you are advocating for him - you're spot on with your first paragraph.

[CGD]

What makes Salaun any different than Kevin Knox? He was 6-9 in shoes, 7 foot wingspan, 18 on draft night, played real competition at Kentucky so he had the potential for the post Kentucky bounce

Scored 15 a game and shot 34% from 3 on 4.5 attempts, great dunks and threes highlights ... But just couldn't play basketball

I haven't watched the full games myself. But I will if they're on YouTube or NBA league pass and I'll be looking for something I heard in a draft podcast breakdown of Salaun (might have been No Ceilings): and that was that in between the dunks and threes seen in highlights where the rest of basketball happens that he was clueless and didn't know what was going on.

Very skeptical for now but need to watch games for myself

Yeah, but if it’s the same podcast I’m thinking of they also said that while his floor is lower than Risacher now, his potential ceiling could be way higher. Not sure if that was more a reflection of him or ZR tho.

[Mugen]

this draft is weak at the top in that there is no star power. there is no franchise foundational player (that we can tell), no "this guy will be an all star by year 3" type players.

its not like the guys in play between picks 7 and 15 are unusually weak. leave the samanic "one player away from being one player away" types to the end of the first where they belong, where some loaded contender just keep them in the oven for 2-3 years until they're ready. we are going to be absolutely churning through the bottom of the roster for the next 3 years. dont have room for that

If they think he has best player in the draft type ceiling then they should absolutely take him at 8 tbh. They also have plenty of roster spots/room to give Saluan 2 years to develop if they think he's worth it tbh. If they only had #8 then I'd probably agree with you but #8 is a luxury pick where they can afford to take a big swing.

[TD 21]

production matters

how can you call him low ceiling when he is putting up all star production at age 21?

yes, they are a place players can be drawn to. a playmaking big that gets everyone involved is also an attractive aspect of that team

It's largely a product of mpg/usage. Dig deeper and his efficiency is middling, both scoring and rebounding wise.

I don't believe you can build a championship contender him as the centerpiece or have him play a tertiary role considering his inability to space the floor and limitations defensively at by far the most important position on that side of the ball.

The thing with most international stars is, they're not drawn to congregating like most American stars nor are they part of the cool kids.

[spurraider21]

If they think he has best player in the draft type ceiling then they should absolutely take him at 8 tbh. They also have plenty of roster spots/room to give Saluan 2 years to develop if they think he's worth it tbh. If they only had #8 then I'd probably agree with you but #8 is a luxury pick where they can afford to take a big swing.
dont think we'll see eye to eye on this, but the scenario where i wont be too upset about a salaun pick is one where we take a kentucky guard at 4 (assuming risacher wasnt also there)

if we get out of this draft with castle and salaun or topic and salaun id consider it an L

but who knows, the guys calling the shots should know way better than i do

[objective]

Re: Sochan the defender

The thing is he just doesn't seem to generate a lot of events. Where's the blocks? Where's the steals? Hell, where's the deflections?

Per 36 only 1.0 steals and 0.7 blocks?

Only ranked 93rd in deflections per game, 4th on the Spurs. Worse per 36. Sidenote, Dejounte still getting top 10 deflections despite poor defensive showings.

Basically everyone who has a rep of any kind on defense gets more deflections than Sochan, you can check the hustle stats on NBA.com. He didn't draw any charges this year. Jaden McDaniels he similar block and steal numbers but a fractionally better 0.5 deflections per 36, late first round pick who didn't have the rep coming out of school as Sochan

Are there stats to show how positive an impact he made guarding the opposing number 1s? I hope so because the regular counting stats aren't really in his favor.

[TD 21]

^ Neither does Castle, but leave it to the Spurs to want to build the most unskilled offensive team in the league so that they can prioritize defense with players who lack dynamic physical tools or the ability to create havoc . . . and yet you've got people on board with this nonsense.

[spurraider21]

blocks/steals are nice, but we've seen very good and even great defenders not generate those stats. the problem is im not convinced sochan does that. he has his games where his impact is obvious but they're somewhat few and far between. usually, he's pretty solid positionally but then lacks the springiness or size to actually affect the shot as much as he needs to. he doesnt have particularly active hands against ballhandlers to poke at the ball. he kind of just stays in between them and the basket and if they can elevate and shoot over him its just hoping they miss

and that kind of defense is fine, but not good enough if its supposed to be his calling card that justifies his presence in the starting unit.

[SouthernFryd]

Sochan is a liability. He and Champagnie need to go.

You replace just those 2 with average NBA players, and we win 15-20 games more.

[Dejounte]

^ Neither does Castle, but leave it to the Spurs to want to build the most unskilled offensive team in the league so that they can prioritize defense with players who lack dynamic physical tools or the ability to create havoc . . . and yet you've got people on board with this nonsense.

If there aren’t any players in this draft who have dynamic physical tools or the ability to create havoc… then the alternative to pursue these types is better.

[mystargtr34]

Salaun is starting to feel like this years Coulibaly who went higher and higher up mock drafts as the draft got closer. Mostly based on size and length for his position coupled with flashes of raw skills (athleticism, shooting).

[Dejounte]

Nobody should act like Castle will have nothing to contribute to an NBA team because he’s not strong offensively… the guy was just part of a college championship team.

[Eaglenole2002]

Per BBall index, fwiw…

2023-24 Perimeter Isolation Defense metric leaders:
1. Luguentz Dort2. Alex Caruso3. Jeremy Sochan4. OG Anunoby5. Jaden McDaniels6. Ausar Thompson7. Vince Williams Jr.8. Derrick Jones Jr.9. Keon Ellis10. Deni Avdija11. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope12. Isaac Okoro13. Caris LeVert14. Cason Wallace15. Herbert Jones16. Kris Dunn17. Dillon Brooks18. Dean Wade19. Andrew Wiggins20. Dyson Daniels

[baseline bum]

Salaun is a very attractive lump of clay but that type of player has no business going top 10

Top 10 in this draft is like top 16-20 in a normal draft per the GMs Rusillo talked to, so I don't think it's a stretch if they think he has a high ceiling. Unless somehow Castle or one of the Kentucky guards is still on the board at 8 I'd rather take a home run swing on him or Holland or Williams than say get a worse version of McDermott in Knecht.

[Obstructed_View]

Bruce Bowen wasn't a good defender because stats.

[scott]

We've reached the stage where further analysis just makes me more pessimistic about this draft :lol

If we could somehow turn #4 into Deni and #8 into Ivey, I'd rather just have that. If those two names don't work, I'm positive I can find a dozen other on rebuilding teams I'd be happy with.

[Dejounte]

We've reached the stage where further analysis just makes me more pessimistic about this draft :lol

If we could somehow turn #4 into Deni and #8 into Ivey, I'd rather just have that. If those two names don't work, I'm positive I can find a dozen other on rebuilding teams I'd be happy with.

Better yet, just give both 4 and 8 for Dejounte.

If people here say no to that, I want to hear who in this draft they think will reach Dejounte’s level. This will be good.

[Eaglenole2002]

How do the top four PGs in this draft compare to the top PG prospects in the 2021-2023 drafts? They seem to compare very well. Was Suggs really all that different? I certainly don’t think Black is.

[scott]

Better yet, just give both 4 and 8 for Dejounte.

If people here say no to that, I want to hear who in this draft they think will reach Dejounte’s level. This will be good.

You Son Of A Bitch, I'm In

Edit: Forgot that we have a guy who will be better than Trae Young (and maybe Tony Parker) and John Stockton's clone in this draft. Might have to rethink things.

[Mr. Body]

How do the top four PGs in this draft compare to the top PG prospects in the 2021-2023 drafts? They seem to compare very well. Was Suggs really all that different? I certainly don’t think Black is.

Castle v Black v Cason Wallace v Suggs

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=stephon-castle--anthony-black--cason-wallace--jalen-suggs

Stats at least

[Eaglenole2002]

Top 10 in this draft is like top 16-20 in a normal draft per the GMs Rusillo talked to, so I don't think it's a stretch if they think he has a high ceiling. Unless somehow Castle or one of the Kentucky guards is still on the board at 8 I'd rather take a home run swing on him or Holland or Williams than say get a worse version of McDermott in Knecht.

I’m curious where the cut off is in this draft according to the GMs. I do think players like Salaun and Knecht would tend to go later, or a player like Carter. Would Buzeilis go 16-20 in a normal draft? Cody Williams? I mean, Zaire Williams went to 12, right? How is he different than Buzeilis, Holland or Williams?

I think this weak draft stuff is getting incredibly exaggerated by folks. There isn’t an elite prospect like most drafts, but there will be some really good players to come out of this draft. It’s just gonna take real development of swing skills.

[CGD]

^ Neither does Castle, but leave it to the Spurs to want to build the most unskilled offensive team in the league so that they can prioritize defense with players who lack dynamic physical tools or the ability to create havoc . . . and yet you've got people on board with this nonsense.

I think you may have unrealistic expectations about the role this draft will play in a multifaceted rebuild strategy. We still have to go through free agency, play the trade market game, and roll the draft dice a few more cycles. I see few, if any, Day 1 starters in the top 10 of this draft, and those who are (the centers) aren’t a position of need.

Im cool drafting what could amount to great role players or taking a few big swings on kids 2 years away. It’s the hand we have.

[baseline bum]

Better yet, just give both 4 and 8 for Dejounte.

If people here say no to that, I want to hear who in this draft they think will reach Dejounte’s level. This will be good.

I'd love it but why would Atlanta do that? Would also have to throw a salary in since the Spurs won't be able to quite clear enough capspace for Dejounte's salary. Wouldn't need to be much; either Branham or Wesley would work if they cut Champagnie, as much as I'd hate to cut a guy who can give good bench minutes signed to a $3 million team option. But don't see them taking Collins or Graham off the Spurs hands and would much rather keep Keldon to trade later than move him just to be able to keep Champagnie.

[baseline bum]

I’m curious where the cut off is in this draft according to the GMs. I do think players like Salaun and Knecht would tend to go later, or a player like Carter. Would Buzeilis go 16-20 in a normal draft? Cody Williams? I mean, Zaire Williams went to 12, right? How is he different than Buzeilis, Holland or Williams?

I think this weak draft stuff is getting incredibly exaggerated by folks. There isn’t an elite prospect like most drafts, but there will be some really good players to come out of this draft. It’s just gonna take real development of swing skills.

I'm just repeating what GMs told Rusillo. That this draft is like chopping the first 8-10 picks off a normal NBA draft.

[scott]

I’m curious where the cut off is in this draft according to the GMs. I do think players like Salaun and Knecht would tend to go later, or a player like Carter. Would Buzeilis go 16-20 in a normal draft? Cody Williams? I mean, Zaire Williams went to 12, right? How is he different than Buzeilis, Holland or Williams?

I think this weak draft stuff is getting incredibly exaggerated by folks. There isn’t an elite prospect like most drafts, but there will be some really good players to come out of this draft. It’s just gonna take real development of swing skills.

I think it was Mr. Body that suggested that some guys from this year's draft would start to be drafted around 6 in last year's draft (meaning the Top 5 last year would all go Top 5 this year), and I think that seems about right. With that said, I don't think last year was that great of a draft either - it just had a few guys at the top (and especially Wemby) that stood out. If you take out the top 5 last year, it's probably on par with this year's.

[exstatic]

Sochan's 3PT% in 2024 was 27.5%. exstatic thinks we should have a parade or some shit because he improved from embarrassingly bad to shockingly abysmal.

:rollin. Now we’re breaking it down into partial seasons to fit our POV?

[Chinook]

I feel like the affinity for Avdija is akin to the desperation on the part of a lot of Spurs fans to acquire Taurean Prince back in his ATL days. He's a mediocre starter who's only signed to his good deal because he had established a firm track record of being even worse than that. Unlike with Prince back in the day, the Spurs do not have any need to leverage themselves so much to acquire such a player. They have the means to get one for less.

I like Ivey, but I have him more as a guy acquired with Chicago pick than 8. If the Spurs did something like Risacher and Holland during the draft, then I could see that trade making sense. But they shouldn't move a top-10 pick for a flier.

[scott]

:rollin. Now we’re breaking it down into partial seasons to fit our POV?

Ironic coming from you, the guy who distorts things or just flat out makes them up, to fit his POV.

I provided Sochan's monthly 3P% splits above. They're just facts. You're welcome to believe he is an up and coming 3P threat if you please.

[Eaglenole2002]

I think it was Mr. Body (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=397) that suggested that some guys from this year's draft would start to be drafted around 6 in last year's draft (meaning the Top 5 last year would all go Top 5 this year), and I think that seems about right. With that said, I don't think last year was that great of a draft either - it just had a few guys at the top (and especially Wemby) that stood out. If you take out the top 5 last year, it's probably on par with this year's.
Yeah, in terms of prospects, Scoot, Miller and Amen certainly go ahead of anyone in this draft. I think Ausar and everyone after him are on par with this group.

[exstatic]

But... Salaun shoots .316 from deep. How is that a stretch four? Tankathon lists his good qualities as... ... ... ... ... draft age.

That's it.

I get people here have a hate boner about Sochan with the whole PG thing I guess, but Salaun is nowhere near able to contribute the way Sochan does. He's just bad at everything.

TaT also projects his NBA 3G% at 36%.

[spurraider21]

I'm just repeating what GMs told Rusillo. That this draft is like chopping the first 8-10 picks off a normal NBA draft.
i dont buy it. you really think Coulibably goes #1 overall in this draft? Jarace Walker? Taylor Hendricks?

[spurraider21]

TaT also projects his NBA 3G% at 36%.
how accurate are their projections, historically? dont they just plug in the 3pt%, ft%, and volume into some formula and spit something out?

[exstatic]

What makes Salaun any different than Kevin Knox? He was 6-9 in shoes, 7 foot wingspan, 18 on draft night, played real competition at Kentucky so he had the potential for the post Kentucky bounce

Scored 15 a game and shot 34% from 3 on 4.5 attempts, great dunks and threes highlights ... But just couldn't play basketball

I haven't watched the full games myself. But I will if they're on YouTube or NBA league pass and I'll be looking for something I heard in a draft podcast breakdown of Salaun (might have been No Ceilings): and that was that in between the dunks and threes seen in highlights where the rest of basketball happens that he was clueless and didn't know what was going on.

Very skeptical for now but need to watch games for myself

For the most part, UK wings don’t shine in the NBA, only their guards and bigs. I would also expect someone from Europe to, you know, understand how to play basketball better than some Calipari show pony.

[Mr. Body]

I think it was Mr. Body that suggested that some guys from this year's draft would start to be drafted around 6 in last year's draft (meaning the Top 5 last year would all go Top 5 this year), and I think that seems about right. With that said, I don't think last year was that great of a draft either - it just had a few guys at the top (and especially Wemby) that stood out. If you take out the top 5 last year, it's probably on par with this year's.

In retrospect, Scoot was heavily overrated. He has talent, but was marked up hugely. The Thompsons have a lot of promise, but they'd be getting hammered this year if they were individuals and not hyped.

The 2023 draft had the 'generational' moniker slapped on it well before the draft cycle even started. But if Scoot Henderson was Sterling Henderson and we had Bob Thompson and some other guy Ricky Thompson, things might have been different.

This draft has been slammed for a long time. It started with Matas, Holland, Collier, those dudes high. Once they tanked, everyone threw up their hands and decided they all sucked. (But I agree, they kind of suck overall.)

[Mr. Body]

What makes Salaun any different than Kevin Knox? He was 6-9 in shoes, 7 foot wingspan, 18 on draft night, played real competition at Kentucky so he had the potential for the post Kentucky bounce

Scored 15 a game and shot 34% from 3 on 4.5 attempts, great dunks and threes highlights ... But just couldn't play basketball

I haven't watched the full games myself. But I will if they're on YouTube or NBA league pass and I'll be looking for something I heard in a draft podcast breakdown of Salaun (might have been No Ceilings): and that was that in between the dunks and threes seen in highlights where the rest of basketball happens that he was clueless and didn't know what was going on.

Very skeptical for now but need to watch games for myself

Great question. Kevin Knox had really, really poor BB IQ.

I don't know that Salaun has great BB IQ. You can work as hard as you want, have a great body and individual skills, but putting it together may be beyond some.

[Leetonidas]

Personally i think the whole weak draft/strong draft talk is kinda nonsense anyway. Every single year we see busts taken in the top 10 while guys taken in the mid teens or late first end up being better than a lot of the guys taken in the lottery. It really is a crapshoot. People talked about how 2020 was a weak draft which is obviously not true 4 years in.

[Dejounte]

how accurate are their projections, historically? dont they just plug in the 3pt%, ft%, and volume into some formula and spit something out?
Don’t expect ex to question TaT’s methodologies or past history… it’s his holy bible

[exstatic]

Ironic coming from you, the guy who distorts things or just flat out makes them up, to fit his POV.

I provided Sochan's monthly 3P% splits above. They're just facts. You're welcome to believe he is an up and coming 3P threat if you please.

What a comeback! You do it too!

So, I won’t hear any more mess about this from you since “you do it too”?

[BacktoBasics]

That's not really what happened. Sochan had a strong November and January, then reverted to his mean, especially after the ASB.

October - 25.0
%November - 46.7%
December - 32.5%
January - 37.5%
February - 19.4%
March - 22.8%
April - DNP

Thanks. When did the experiment end? I feel like that coincided with an improvement in shooting. Nonetheless he still finished the season better than last year.

I’m not sour on his progress.

[exstatic]

Don’t expect ex to question TaT’s methodologies or past history… it’s his holy bible

Honestly, I have no idea how they calculate the projected 3G% although it’s probably based to some extent on FT%, and TaT is just a tool, not the Bible. It’s probably the best free analysis mock left, but it has it’s idiosyncrasies.

[SpursBills]

Better yet, just give both 4 and 8 for Dejounte.

If people here say no to that, I want to hear who in this draft they think will reach Dejounte’s level. This will be good.

I'm probably just drunk right now, but I think there's a decent chance that Sheppard can develop into a player just impactful as Dejounte Murray.

EDIT:
More impactful than Dejounte Murray

[vander]

Feels like a lot of these debates are going in circles. None of these dudes are day one contributors. No matter who we pick, they're gonna be a 2-4 yr project due to their limitations on one side of the floor. Expecting a rookie from this year's draft class to make and immediate impact is setting yourself up for disappointment.

People may not wanna hear it, but our patience will be tested next year. The only way this team makes a substantial leap is if multiple players on roster make a leap or if we add NBA proven talent via FA/Trade.

I think either of the Kentuckey guards will be good by year 2

[Darkwaters]

I'm hardly an expert on this stuff, but Salaun is a guy that has really turned my head. Obviously he's a substantial project - probably two full years away. But he's got the tools to be a devilish two-way player with the size to guard 3 or 4 positions. Plus the fact that he's friends with Victor is certainly a huge positive. It's never too early to prevent the next Orlando from swiping your coveted franchise player.

As I look at it now here is how I want it to fall out:

4th Pick: Stephon Castle
- I love this guy's game and think he can develop his 3 point shot. And I'm bought in on giving him a chance to be our PG of the future with a floor as a solid off-ball defender. At this point he's my clear #4 pick.

8th Pick: Tidjan Salaun or Cody Williams
- My thought process here is with Castle being closer to a "sure thing" this is a great pick to swing for the fences. I think either of these guys would be that kind of swing.

Variables:
- If Castle is gone at 4 there is a good chance that Risacher fell. I'm not as high on him as some, but I could see the Spurs taking him. Even with Castle AND Riasacher there they might still take the Frenchman.

- If Rob Dillingham is available at 8 he's another guy that might be too interesting to pass on. Regardless of who they take at 4. I have serious concerns about his size and defense but as a firecracker off the bench he could have a long career. And if he reaches his upside he might be able to start at PG.

[Mr. Body]

I've heard Risacher is more of a Star Trek fan so, despite some outward pleasantries, him and Victor don't get along.

[BackHome]

I'm hardly an expert on this stuff, but Salaun is a guy that has really turned my head. Obviously he's a substantial project - probably two full years away. But he's got the tools to be a devilish two-way player with the size to guard 3 or 4 positions. Plus the fact that he's friends with Victor is certainly a huge positive. It's never too early to prevent the next Orlando from swiping your coveted franchise player.

As I look at it now here is how I want it to fall out:

4th Pick: Stephon Castle
- I love this guy's game and think he can develop his 3 point shot. And I'm bought in on giving him a chance to be our PG of the future with a floor as a solid off-ball defender. At this point he's my clear #4 pick.

8th Pick: Tidjan Salaun or Cody Williams
- My thought process here is with Castle being closer to a "sure thing" this is a great pick to swing for the fences. I think either of these guys would be that kind of swing.

Variables:
- If Castle is gone at 4 there is a good chance that Risacher fell. I'm not as high on him as some, but I could see the Spurs taking him. Even with Castle AND Riasacher there they might still take the Frenchman.

- If Rob Dillingham is available at 8 he's another guy that might be too interesting to pass on. Regardless of who they take at 4. I have serious concerns about his size and defense but as a firecracker off the bench he could have a long career. And if he reaches his upside he might be able to start at PG.

Yeah, I am all over the draft boards but have been looking at Cody Williams before he got hurt and I am kind of liking him again. Yeah, he is not that fast or explosive, but he is very long with that 7'0 reach really helps him on defense in contesting/steals/blocks. To me Cody is more of a SF, and Saluan is a pure PF who could maybe play small ball Center.

[SpursBills]

Also, for the growing number of Devin Carter stans, this shit is like catnip:

https://theswishtheory.com/2024-nba-draft-articles/2024/05/devin-carter-is-still-underrated/

[Darkwaters]

I've heard Risacher is more of a Star Trek fan so, despite some outward pleasantries, him and Victor don't get along.

I wish Victor would just live long and prosper!

[scott]

Thanks. When did the experiment end? I feel like that coincided with an improvement in shooting. Nonetheless he still finished the season better than last year.

I’m not sour on his progress.

Have heard the Point Sochan experiment referred to as the first 18 games of the season (game 18 would have been the 11/30 loss to ATL), but Vassell got hurt in Game 11, at which time Champagnie was inserted for him, and then after Game 14, Branham was starting for Champ. I remember we went through a Point Branham phase as well, so you can make the case that Point Sochan ended after 14 games, which would have been 11/22.

Either way, Shochan's hot shooting month of November actually coincided with his playing PG, then dropped off a little, and then fell off a cliff after the ASB.

Edit: here are the starting lineups by game if you are interested: https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2024_start.html

[baseline bum]

i dont buy it. you really think Coulibably goes #1 overall in this draft? Jarace Walker? Taylor Hendricks?

Maybe on Jarace Walker. Probably not on the other two though. Maybe Rusillo asked BWrong :lol

[Ariel]

Great question. Kevin Knox had really, really poor BB IQ.

I don't know that Salaun has great BB IQ. You can work as hard as you want, have a great body and individual skills, but putting it together may be beyond some.
But thing is, Salaun DOESN'T have great individual skills, none that I can think of. His finishing is atrocious for a guy his size, and moves like he's still trying to figure out how his body works. A realistic path towards success in the NBA for him, is IMO as a fairly limited 3&D stretch 4.

If he becomes an elite catch and shoot guy, a physical beast on defense and a madman on the boards, you can still live with the rest of his game being rough. But again, you have to buy 100% into his funky shot reaching elite level, testing off the charts athletically, and being a super smart and hard working kid. Even then, it's a long way to get there and far from certain he ever does, which is why I'm not enthused with the idea of taking him at 8.

[BacktoBasics]

Have heard the Point Sochan experiment referred to as the first 18 games of the season (game 18 would have been the 11/30 loss to ATL), but Vassell got hurt in Game 11, at which time Champagnie was inserted for him, and then after Game 14, Branham was starting for Champ. I remember we went through a Point Branham phase as well, so you can make the case that Point Sochan ended after 14 games, which would have been 11/22.

Either way, Shochan's hot shooting month of November actually coincided with his playing PG, then dropped off a little, and then fell off a cliff after the ASB.

Edit: here are the starting lineups by game if you are interested: https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2024_start.html

I’ll stand corrected on dates and timing etc. As much as I cringed through the experiment and really the whole season my takeaway with Sochan is that there were many instances where that point mentality shined through and there seemed to be a factor of growth as an overall player that you could directly attribute to those hardships. I never believed he was going to be a future PG.

I am fully expecting a more balanced upcoming season with less wonky-ness. Despite what will be two highly scrutinized rookies.

I’m not a Sochan apologist but I’m also not a hater. He is a great intangibles type of guy who can close games from time to time. He’s a plug, can be a 3rd 4th or 2nd guy on any given night. Just not that guy every night.

[scott]

I’ll stand corrected on dates and timing etc. As much as I cringed through the experiment and really the whole season my takeaway with Sochan is that there were many instances where that point mentality shined through and there seemed to be a factor of growth as an overall player that you could directly attribute to those hardships. I never believed he was going to be a future PG.

I am fully expecting a more balanced upcoming season with less wonky-ness. Despite what will be two highly scrutinized rookies.

I’m not a Sochan apologist but I’m also not a hater. He is a great intangibles type of guy who can close games from time to time. He’s a plug, can be a 3rd 4th or 2nd guy on any given night. Just not that guy every night.

I'm not overly concerned about Sochan at this point - there are more important immediate gaps to fill, and I think he can be a useful player for us. I just don't have much faith in his development as a reliable 3P shooter.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/DraftExpress/status/1793480247670919229

[TrainOfThought5]

On a side note, Just wanted to know, are we writing off Malaki Branham as a PG? I thought the experience with him at that position wasn't that bad and showed some glimpses...

we’re ready to surround Wemby with Real High end talent now.

[Knoxxx]

This mock has ATL taking Risacher at 1:

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10121302-2024-nba-mock-draft-a-new-no-1-pro-player-comps-for-every-prospect.amp.html

Seems good for the Spurs if so, fewer wins for ATL next season? And higher bust potential the next two?

[DAF86]

Besides Victor, we haven't drafted anybody who can play defense...

Sochan and Vassell were thought to be elite defensive prospects coming out of college. Something to consider when talking about these suppossed defensive prospects.

[DAF86]

PATFO put a lot into these guy's personal workouts and scrimmages during the pre-draft process so it'll be interesting to see who plays well during those workouts and who struggles. Topic might come in and ball out during a scrimmage and the Spurs might fall in love. Same with Sheppard. You just never know tbh. Eager to see how these guys look once they get to SA for their private workouts. That'll tell us a lot more and paint a clearer picture for us.

Do they really? I'm honestly asking because I don't know. What examples/proof are/is there of Spurs picking a guy because of workouts and scrimmages? If true, that sounds like a really bad strategy. I would really hope they don't make those important choices relying on such a short sample size.

[spurraider21]

This mock has ATL taking Risacher at 1:

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10121302-2024-nba-mock-draft-a-new-no-1-pro-player-comps-for-every-prospect.amp.html

Seems good for the Spurs if so, fewer wins for ATL next season? And higher bust potential the next two?
i think its better for us if they take Sarr. he's probably a smart pick for them long term but i dont think hes going to be very good in year 1. he's pretty poor offensively right now, and he's very weak on the defensive glass.

[RC_Drunkford]

I'm probably just drunk right now, but I think there's a decent chance that Sheppard can develop into a player just impactful as Dejounte Murray.

EDIT:
More impactful than Dejounte Murray

JJ Reddick is not better than DJ

[ChumpDumper]

Personally i think the whole weak draft/strong draft talk is kinda nonsense anyway. Every single year we see busts taken in the top 10 while guys taken in the mid teens or late first end up being better than a lot of the guys taken in the lottery. It really is a crapshoot. People talked about how 2020 was a weak draft which is obviously not true 4 years in.The problem is this year most of the draftees are so young and so obviously flawed that it's almost impossible to say who is going to hit with any degree of certainty. Some are just bound to be really good players as they learn how to train and play like NBA players but which ones are anyone's guess.

[SouthernFryd]

Yeah. When did 22-23 yr old kids become "old"

That used to be the average age coming out of college.

NBA players are now coming in very young and inexperienced. ...and it shows.

[BackHome]

At best you may have 1 player from this draft actually starts and keeps there starting role the whole season. In last years draft You had several people in the top 10 that spent significant more time in the G League vs the big boy team. This draft I see maybe only 3 people who will get significant playing time after All Star break

[playblair]

ive been told by my contact in the austin spurs org......... spurs will be bringing in this player for a workout.........rodney terry told brian wright about him..........


http://youtu.be/Atfy26nw-hQ?si=mmeQMXSvqy7unQAk

[Ariel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9B1bw2L9YU

Been watching some Salaun tape and, yes, he's big and active, but athletically doesn't look super bouncy or fluid. He's super long and has a strong build but doesn't use it to bully his opponents, you often see him going for these awkward, amateurish prayers of a layup, when he should just overpower defenders for a dunk. His length allows him to disrupt passing lanes and get steals, but doesn't look like he's got the lateral speed to keep up with faster wings on the perimeter. He misses basic reads and passes. He's projected as a shooter but he only made 32.9% (46/140), has some ugly misses and his shot looks funky. Has the handles of your average guy at the local gym. It's hard to definitively state outcomes, but he looks raw like a chunk of meat you just bit off a living cow. More than polishing a diamond in the rough, it's hoping for a diamond out of a chunk of coal. Maybe everything goes right, the shot really pans out and hustles his butt off on D, and becomes a serviceable stretch 4, but it's a loooong and bumpy ride, and we've had enough of these already. I'd rather let somebody else gamble on this lottery ticket.

[Ariel]

I've read some link him to a young Giannis, at least in the sense that he could be a young guy super raw but full of potential that can explode in the NBA... this was pre draft Giannis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oaw0_zw9LGs. Other than the size, there's no much else to compare the two. Not even physically, Giannis was much more bouncy, explosive, and fluid. Salaun looks clunky.

[Bruno]

What I really don't like about Salaün is his poor feel for the game. Even if he is one of the youngest player in this draft, he has been for 4 years in arguably the two best places to learn basketball in France (INSEP and Cholet). I find it worrisome that he hasn't a better understanding of the game after that.

[Ariel]

What I really don't like about Salaün is his poor feel for the game. Even if he is one of the youngest player in this draft, he has been for 4 years in arguably the two best places to learn basketball in France (INSEP and Cholet). I find it worrisome that he hasn't a better understanding of the game after that.
Well... then it isn't that he's raw, just not very good. I mean, I could understand it if he picked up a basketball a few years ago like some tall African teenagers do, but this guy has been around a basketball his whole life and his skill level and understanding of the game sure doesn't look like it.

Personally I'd rather go Castle at 4 and Dillingham/Sheppard at 8, but if the Spurs were inclined to go for Salaun at 8, I'd rather overpay to move up for Risacher instead, he might not be a high level creator but the guy actually looks like a smart basketball player with skills. Would 8 + future first get you to 2? Or maybe from 4 to 2, and hope Castle is there at 8.

[Vienna]

What I really don't like about Salaün is his poor feel for the game. Even if he is one of the youngest player in this draft, he has been for 4 years in arguably the two best places to learn basketball in France (INSEP and Cholet). I find it worrisome that he hasn't a better understanding of the game after that.

so, what about Melvin Ajinca in that regard? some mocks have the Spurs taking him in the 2nd round. I understand that he is also pretty raw, but with the 2nd round picks the Spurs might plan to draft and stash anyway.

[SpursBills]

JJ Reddick is not better than DJ

Compare TJ McConnell with Dejounte Murray - Murray has him crushed in raw production and has an advantage in frame, physical tools, made an all-defensive team, and plays like more of a hooper while McConnell is some unathletic white dude who comes off the bench. And yet compare their on court impact by DARKO and EPM both this year and years past and aside from Murray's last year at SA, they are not that far off, and that McConnell this year has been a more impactful player than Dejounte Murray this year.

Now consider that the main thing that has kept McConnell from being a starter his entire career is a lack of a consistent 3 point shot, so he has been achieving all this as a tiny unathletic guard who can't provide spacing, and yet he was one of Indiana's best players against the Knicks in their conference semi series. I would argue that if you give him JJ Reddick's jumper for his entire career, he's a 30 million dollar a year player right now and potentially more impactful than Murray.

To me, Sheppard is basically that guy - only slightly bigger, more athletic, higher processing speed, and with a wet jumper who is better in virtually every way than McConnell as a freshman at Duquesne aside from taking care of the ball. I think there's a good chance he can develop an improved handle and functional strength over the next 5-7 years and play as a lead guard who's just as, if not more impactful than Murray. I get that if you think he'll be stuck as a small non-creating shooting specialist like Seth Curry for his entire career that he's probably not going approach Murray's value, but I guess I project him as more than that.

Pretty hot take I know, but I was drunk when I typed that last night and now it looks like I have to stand by it haha

[Bruno]

so, what about Melvin Ajinca in that regard? some mocks have the Spurs taking him in the 2nd round. I understand that he is also pretty raw, but with the 2nd round picks the Spurs might plan to draft and stash anyway.

I'm not a fan of Ajinça. To me, he is just a 3 point shooter that isn't even shooting that well the ball.

When I look at various mock draft, I find that there are still a lot of intriguing players left at #35. This draft seems stronger than last year draft in that range. Spurs can do way better at #35 than Ajinça. I'm way more intrigued in most of the players you have suggested as targets in some of your previous posts.

With the 48th pick, Ajinça could be a decent option in a draft and stash scenario. This pick will have little trade value and Spurs certainly won't have a roster spot for a 4th rookie so it's likely either a two way player or a draft and stash.

[Mr. Body]

https://dizzledynasty.substack.com/p/stephon-castle-donovan-clingan-alex

Comments by an observer who watched a lot of UConn this year.

[objective]

Per BBall index, fwiw…

2023-24 Perimeter Isolation Defense metric leaders:
1. Luguentz Dort2. Alex Caruso3. Jeremy Sochan4. OG Anunoby5. Jaden McDaniels6. Ausar Thompson7. Vince Williams Jr.8. Derrick Jones Jr.9. Keon Ellis10. Deni Avdija11. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope12. Isaac Okoro13. Caris LeVert14. Cason Wallace15. Herbert Jones16. Kris Dunn17. Dillon Brooks18. Dean Wade19. Andrew Wiggins20. Dyson Daniels

Thanks for this

[Vienna]

I'm not a fan of Ajinça. To me, he is just a 3 point shooter that isn't even shooting that well the ball.

When I look at various mock draft, I find that there are still a lot of intriguing players left at #35. This draft seems stronger than last year draft in that range. Spurs can do way better at #35 than Ajinça. I'm way more intrigued in most of the players you have suggested as targets in some of your previous posts.

With the 48th pick, Ajinça could be a decent option in a draft and stash scenario. This pick will have little trade value and Spurs certainly won't have a roster spot for a 4th rookie so it's likely either a two way player or a draft and stash.

thank's, that's great insight!
yes, I see it like you, there are probably more intriguing prospects in the 30-40 range than in other years. but it will be tough to find a spot on the roster for the #35 pick, so I don't see a chance for that #48.
pick might get traded for a future 2nd. (looking at the Nets)
most of the players I mentioned are of that good soldier mold, I guess I'm a bit biased, I really like those guys who worked their way up and so I would rank some of them much higher than the mocks do.
like, say, Antonio Reeves, who the most mocks have in the lower half of 2nd round. yes, can I see his limits and he is already 23, but he definitely can shoot, he finds his spots and he brings a lot of intangibles.
he wouldn't be first on my list for pick #35, but he is on the list.

[PhantomDashCam]

1793438816818036834


I see a lot of players from this talent rich area. That includes current prospects such as Reed Sheppard, Stephon Castle, and Cam Christie. In past years I have been able to watch players like Jarace Walker, Grady Dick, and Kobe Bufkin. During the bizarre COVID impacted summer of 2020. I even got to see future #1 overall pick Paolo Banchero up close and personal (only parents and media got into most events that summer)
The sheer force and brute physicality of Banchero is hard to top. However hands down, the most skilled and dynamic player I have seen is this time frame is Buzelis.

Worth a read on the ‘Mantis’.

[rascal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9B1bw2L9YU

Been watching some Salaun tape and, yes, he's big and active, but athletically doesn't look super bouncy or fluid. He's super long and has a strong build but doesn't use it to bully his opponents, you often see him going for these awkward, amateurish prayers of a layup, when he should just overpower defenders for a dunk. His length allows him to disrupt passing lanes and get steals, but doesn't look like he's got the lateral speed to keep up with faster wings on the perimeter. He misses basic reads and passes. He's projected as a shooter but he only made 32.9% (46/140), has some ugly misses and his shot looks funky. Has the handles of your average guy at the local gym. It's hard to definitively state outcomes, but he looks raw like a chunk of meat you just bit off a living cow. More than polishing a diamond in the rough, it's hoping for a diamond out of a chunk of coal. Maybe everything goes right, the shot really pans out and hustles his butt off on D, and becomes a serviceable stretch 4, but it's a loooong and bumpy ride, and we've had enough of these already. I'd rather let somebody else gamble on this lottery ticket.

Sounds like a Spurs pick and if they miss on Risacher I can see them wanting to draft another French prospect.

[Mr. Body]

Sounds like a Spurs pick and if they miss on Risacher I can see them wanting to draft another French prospect.

How did you get that from what Ariel said?

[rascal]

Looks unathletic, is raw in his game, has positional size, is French

[Truckules]

How did you get that from what Ariel said?

They did draft Samanic 5 years ago who has some similarities. If the Spurs end up picking Salaun, I hope he takes basketball more seriously than Samanic.

[exstatic]

But thing is, Salaun DOESN'T have great individual skills, none that I can think of. His finishing is atrocious for a guy his size, and moves like he's still trying to figure out how his body works. A realistic path towards success in the NBA for him, is IMO as a fairly limited 3&D stretch 4.

If he becomes an elite catch and shoot guy, a physical beast on defense and a madman on the boards, you can still live with the rest of his game being rough. But again, you have to buy 100% into his funky shot reaching elite level, testing off the charts athletically, and being a super smart and hard working kid. Even then, it's a long way to get there and far from certain he ever does, which is why I'm not enthused with the idea of taking him at 8.

HE’S EIGHTEEN YEARS OLD.

[exstatic]

On a side note, Just wanted to know, are we writing off Malaki Branham as a PG? I thought the experience with him at that position wasn't that bad and showed some glimpses...

Malaki’s handle is fine for individual scoring, but his vision is subpar. He had to be first in dumb cross court passes or backwards passes towards the opponent basket that were picked off, and so far ahead of second place, I wouldn’t even know who that was.

I was definitely in the “we were tanking “ camp this year, and one of the “tells” when Pop was dumping a game was Malaki running point in the 4th.

[exstatic]

This mock has ATL taking Risacher at 1:

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10121302-2024-nba-mock-draft-a-new-no-1-pro-player-comps-for-every-prospect.amp.html

Seems good for the Spurs if so, fewer wins for ATL next season? And higher bust potential the next two?

If ZR is a 3 and D, he’s a perfect complement to Trae. That’s the exact type of player he needs, as a heliocentric guard. If you could surround Trae with four 3 and D players, you’d have a strong regular season team.

He’ll improve Atlanta more than Sarr would next year.

[exstatic]

Do they really? I'm honestly asking because I don't know. What examples/proof are/is there of Spurs picking a guy because of workouts and scrimmages? If true, that sounds like a really bad strategy. I would really hope they don't make those important choices relying on such a short sample size.
The Flasher.

[Ariel]

They did draft Samanic 5 years ago who has some similarities. If the Spurs end up picking Salaun, I hope he takes basketball more seriously than Samanic.
Samanic actually did look the part of a talented bball player, it was his work ethic that sucked. Salaun is more like the opposite, a workhorse whose talent level is well below his effort.

[Ariel]

HE’S EIGHTEEN YEARS OLD.
Yeah, 2 months and change from 19, and still doesn't look like an NBA prospect to me. You can disagree, of course, go look at the tape and tell me where I'm getting it wrong. But stating his age in caps isn't the most persuasive way to do so.

[RC_Drunkford]

HE’S EIGHTEEN YEARS OLD.

Risacher is only 19 and has a much better feel for the game. Don’t know what your point is

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Salaun might be the only prospect that I would be flat out disappointed in the Spurs drafting. I'm not seeing it with him, at all. If he were at least athletic and fluid, you could take a flyer on him rounding into a more polished player. Or if he had a high bbiq, you could say that it makes up for the lack of athletic ability. He's the worst of both worlds. But hey, he's French, he's young, he's tall, he can shoot it a little, and he's friends with Wemby who says he's got a great wok ethic. No, thanks.

If they had a later pick, he might be worth the risk but certainly not at 8. There are much better prospects with fewer weaknesses and higher upsides there.

[Ignazzz]

Why it say our pick #48 forfeited? What did we do?
https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/?year-mock=2024

should be philly 49tg

[Spurs Homer]

Malaki’s handle is fine for individual scoring, but his vision is subpar. He had to be first in dumb cross court passes or backwards passes towards the opponent basket that were picked off, and so far ahead of second place, I wouldn’t even know who that was.

I was definitely in the “we were tanking “ camp this year, and one of the “tells” when Pop was dumping a game was Malaki running point in the 4th.

Hate to be the one to enlighten you...

but pop never tanks - he is just now a shell of the coach he used to be...
what you saw this past season was pop trying his hardest to win games...

[Vienna]

looking at many updated mocks we can say that the common sense of this forum is not on line with most of the mocks. which is a good sign IMO.
it's interesting that the forum totally cooled own on Topic, while various mocks se him going to SA at 4, while passing on Castle. is anyone here left who takes Topic over Castle?
I saw draftroom and James Barlowe move Castle to the Spurs at 4.
O'Connor has the Spurs taking Dillingham and Cody Willimas while passing on Risacher at 4 and Castle at 8. that won't happen, right?
I guess Wasserman has the most meltdownish mock with Topic and Holland. (while passing on Castle and Dillingham).

[heyheymymy]

Is anyone here left who takes Topic over Castle?

::crickets::

[pad300]

Is anyone here left who takes Topic over Castle?


::crickets::

Me for one. I'm just not interested in arguing with the internet psychics and internet doctors about their 'amazing insights' into Topic's health and personal character - things for which they have zero actual information on...

[heyheymymy]

I could see Topic being the guy and the size and passing potential is admittedly intriguing. But everything seems off about Topic.

Just feels like Castle was a part of a championship through a tournament and Topic can't stay on the court without injury. Very wary of the medical on Topic. If Spurs are fine enough to proceed it'd be a good sign because I trust their health assessments.

[Mr. Body]

I could see Topic being the guy and the size and passing potential is admittedly intriguing. But everything seems off about Topic.

Just feels like Castle was a part of a championship through a tournament and Topic can't stay on the court without injury. Very wary of the medical on Topic. If Spurs are fine enough to proceed it'd be a good sign because I trust their health assessments.

It's hard to get a read on Topic, other than he keeps getting hurt. He's supposed to be an exceptional playmaker and passer, but the clips packages show good reads, but not exceptional reads. Apparently his value is getting into the lane, but that's where you want Wembanyama to be. If he takes a long time to shoot, this impacts his pick-and-rolls. If he's not an excellent defender, then this impacts things further.

[CorrectCrusader]

Me for one. I'm just not interested in arguing with the internet psychics and internet doctors about their 'amazing insights' into Topic's health and personal character - things for which they have zero actual information on...

Ignoring the medicals and character. What makes Topic a better prospect based on his play alone

[rascal]

looking at many updated mocks we can say that the common sense of this forum is not on line with most of the mocks. which is a good sign IMO.
it's interesting that the forum totally cooled own on Topic, while various mocks se him going to SA at 4, while passing on Castle. is anyone here left who takes Topic over Castle?
I saw draftroom and James Barlowe move Castle to the Spurs at 4.
O'Connor has the Spurs taking Dillingham and Cody Willimas while passing on Risacher at 4 and Castle at 8. that won't happen, right?
I guess Wasserman has the most meltdownish mock with Topic and Holland. (while passing on Castle and Dillingham).

Topic at 4 would be a mistake.

I don't see the next three teams drafting Topic so the Spurs can get Topic at 8 if they want him.

[Knoxxx]

If ZR is a 3 and D, he’s a perfect complement to Trae. That’s the exact type of player he needs, as a heliocentric guard. If you could surround Trae with four 3 and D players, you’d have a strong regular season team.

He’ll improve Atlanta more than Sarr would next year.

Excellent analysis, especially if you can follow that with why WIZ should pass on Sarr at 2.

[Knoxxx]

i think its better for us if they take Sarr. he's probably a smart pick for them long term but i dont think hes going to be very good in year 1. he's pretty poor offensively right now, and he's very weak on the defensive glass.

Agreed, except for the part about us likely to be a lotto team in 25 too. Sarr costing us wins would be a net gain.

[The Truth #6]

If they draft Castle at 4 a good chance they aren't drafting another point guard, especially with Blake still on the team and the challenges in drafting and developing raw 19 year olds. Not to mention Castle wanting the chance to play point guard. 8 would have to prioritize shooting, and should be a shooter still available but Reed or Dillingham could be one of them. Anyway. Lots of nuances and personalities to assuage, et cetera.

[rascal]

Agreed, except for the part about us likely to be a lotto team in 25 too. Sarr costing us wins would be a net gain.

Sarr is better than Risacher. Will even be more productive in year one. Sarr is a nice fit in Atlanta. I expect Sarr to be their pick.

[SpursBills]

looking at many updated mocks we can say that the common sense of this forum is not on line with most of the mocks. which is a good sign IMO.
it's interesting that the forum totally cooled own on Topic, while various mocks se him going to SA at 4, while passing on Castle. is anyone here left who takes Topic over Castle?
I saw draftroom and James Barlowe move Castle to the Spurs at 4.
O'Connor has the Spurs taking Dillingham and Cody Willimas while passing on Risacher at 4 and Castle at 8. that won't happen, right?
I guess Wasserman has the most meltdownish mock with Topic and Holland. (while passing on Castle and Dillingham).

If I were Washington, I would take Topic for sure over Castle. However on the spurs his fit isn’t right - I don’t want Wemby running a ton of PNR as the roller and I don’t think he’d be great setting a ton of picks repeatedly. Wemby needs off ball shooting which is a question with topic, and there are better fits as an off ball player. He also can’t contribute much on the defensive end. However, I do think topic has the highest offensive potential of all the draftees and he’d be my selection if I didn’t already have my cornerstone locked in.

[playblair]

aj johnson is currently in austin prepping for his spurs workout.........


http://youtu.be/IOGUcV7hH5o?si=0Yz2gaJrHYiGM-pc

[BackHome]

looking at many updated mocks we can say that the common sense of this forum is not on line with most of the mocks. which is a good sign IMO.
it's interesting that the forum totally cooled own on Topic, while various mocks se him going to SA at 4, while passing on Castle. is anyone here left who takes Topic over Castle?
I saw draftroom and James Barlowe move Castle to the Spurs at 4.
O'Connor has the Spurs taking Dillingham and Cody Willimas while passing on Risacher at 4 and Castle at 8. that won't happen, right?
I guess Wasserman has the most meltdownish mock with Topic and Holland. (while passing on Castle and Dillingham).

Well I think most people are looking at Topic having two knee injuries which off course will have an impact on his draft stock.

[R. DeMurre]

JJ Reddick is not better than DJ


Totally different players, with Sheppard much more of a facilitator. If you compare their freshman assist numbers, it's:

JJ Redick:
2.6 assists per 40 min
Reed Sheppard:
6.2 assists per 40 min

[rascal]

I really don't want to see the spurs reach for Topic at 4 and then take Salaun at 8.

That would be the worst draft that is a real possibility that they may consider.

[Mr. Body]

If I were Washington, I would take Topic for sure over Castle. However on the spurs his fit isn’t right - I don’t want Wemby running a ton of PNR as the roller and I don’t think he’d be great setting a ton of picks repeatedly. Wemby needs off ball shooting which is a question with topic, and there are better fits as an off ball player. He also can’t contribute much on the defensive end. However, I do think topic has the highest offensive potential of all the draftees and he’d be my selection if I didn’t already have my cornerstone locked in.

Assuming Topic is a drive and kick player, Washington works well because they have shooters. He and Wemby may not work because they're trying to get to the same places in the paint.

[scott]

Have yet to see any highlights or write-ups that push me off the opinion that Topic is anything more than an under-the-rim player who can't shoot, doesn't defend, has never shown out against top level competition, and has medical flags.

Honestly it's not apparent to me why he was ever talked about as a Top-10 candidate.

Would rather not have the #8 pick and take Ajay Mitchell at #35 than take Topic or Salaun there.

[jesterbobman]

There's more impact from first round picks (yes, outliers, but historically earlier the pick, the better the expected player), and more certainty around clear groups who'll be available. At this stage, a month and change out, there's so little certainty over where prospects will go that debating second round picks gets silly. Also, to an extent, second round picks might be fit pieces, and you'd consider who you'd drafted already.

e.g, I think KJ Simpson is good, and looks likely to be available at 35 (and 48, in some places). But, if we drafted Dillingham, I'd probably avoid another small guard who's not a stash, as he'd be strictly a third option as I don't see a lot of options for Simpson / Tre / Dilly to play together. If we went with something like Castle / Reed, I could see it as there's still a bit of value in looking for on ball creation now, as while I think both of those guys are good bets to eventually contribute to some on ball responsibility, they aren't heliocentric options now / pure PGs.

[Mr. Body]

Have yet to see any highlights or write-ups that push me off the opinion that Topic is anything more than an under-the-rim player who can't shoot, doesn't defend, has never shown out against top level competition, and has medical flags.

Honestly it's not apparent to me why he was ever talked about as a Top-10 candidate.

Would rather not have the #8 pick and take Ajay Mitchell at #35 than take Topic or Salaun there.


1.) Stephon Castle || FR || UConn || 6'6 || SG/PG

2.) Ron Holland || 18yrs || G-League Ignite || 6'8 || F

3.) Isaiah Collier || FR || USC || 6'3 || PG

4.) Justin Edwards || FR || Kentucky || 6'8 || SF

5.) Aday Mara || FR || UCLA || 7'3 || C

6.) Kel'el Ware || SO || Indiana || 7'0 || PF

7.) Mackenzie Mgbako || FR || Indiana || 6'8 || F

8.) Bobi Klintman || 20yrs || Cairns Taipans || 6'10 || PF

9.) Ja'Kobe Walter || FR || Baylor || 6'5 || SG

10.) Izan Almansa || 18yrs || G-League Ignite || 6'10 || PF/C

11.) Alex Sarr || 18yrs || Perth Wildcats || 7'1 || PF/C

12.) Trentyn Flowers || 18yrs || Adelaide 36ers || 6'8 || SF

13.) Nikola Topic || 18yrs || KK Mega || 6'6 || PG

14.) Zaccharie Risacher || 18yrs || Bourg || 6'8 || SF

15.) Donovan Clingan || JR || UConn || 7'2 || C

16.) Kwame Evans Jr. || FR || Oregon || 6'9 || PF

17.) Baba Miller || SO || Florida State || 6'11 || C

18.) D.J. Wagner || FR || Kentucky || 6'3 || PG

19.) Terrance Arceneaux || SO || Houston || 6'6 || SF

20.) Tyrese Proctor || SO || Duke || 6'5 || G

21.) Cody Williams || FR || Colorado || 6'8 || SF

The above is a random pre-season mock draft. I found others that had Collier up there at number one, Edwards from Kentucky. First of all, a great example of why pre-season mocks are so problematic. Many of the guys we're drooling over for 2025 are not going to show out. This one's fairly unusual in having Castle that high.

Anyway -- many of these players completely tanked. They sucked. But somebody has to move up into the vacuum of the first slots, so it wound up becoming Sarr-Risacher-Topic.

That became the narrative for months, and like many things, the reputation got sticky: these players deserve the top slots because obviously they are the best.

Becomes a self-fulfilling thing: Sarr-Risacher-Topic are clearly the best, or else why was everybody mocking them so high? So I'd better mock them high, too.

[Mr. Body]

As a note, Castle was hurt earlier in the year and didn't start playing until around December. It took him a bit to start getting noticed again.

[CGD]

As a note, Castle was hurt earlier in the year and didn't start playing until around December. It took him a bit to start getting noticed again.

Are you warming to Castle at 4, or are you still sticking to Dillingham there?

[Mr. Body]

Are you warming to Castle at 4, or are you still sticking to Dillingham there?

Well, currently they're my two selections, it's a matter of how I can get both of them.

Detroit is a threat to take Dillingham. Charlotte is a dim possibility to take Dillingham. Portland is unlikely.

Detroit is not likely to take Castle. Charlotte is a possibility to take Castle. Portland could take Castle.

I think Detroit's smartest play is to take Dillingham, though Buzelis is getting ink there. And despite shortcomings (heh heh) he's my main target. So I don't futz around and I take my player at 4.

I'd still feel out whether Charlotte, who may not be in love with any player at 6 and be okay waiting out Portland, would trade from 6 to 8, likely still get a guy they like (Holland or Williams, say). Last year, Indiana got Washington's 2028 SRP and the Suns' 2028 SRP to swap the 7/8 first round picks, so I'd see what it would take to do this.

Basically, I value Dillingham the most, so make sure I get him. I like Castle from this bunch, too. I think there's risk Dilly gets nabbed at 4-7 and I can potentially control for getting Castle. But if I can get Castle then Dillingham, then that works, too.

Tbh I think the Spurs go for Risacher or Castle with the 4 and don't have Dillingham on their radar.

[pad300]

Ignoring the medicals and character. What makes Topic a better prospect based on his play alone

He's holding a starting spot (and playing effectively) against much better competition. At 18, a year younger than the NCAA guys.

He's physically the largest of the PG prospects (Assuming reported measurements are correct). Could easily play up at the 2 or even the 3.

He has 2 NBA level tools already: 1) Drive and Finish, 2) Passing. His shot is likely to develop, as he shoots .878 on free throws. His defense is not strong, but the issue is overstated. Like just about every prospect, I expect his defense to get better with more experience. Also, unlike the NCAA guards, he is playing against men and pro offenses now, not college ball; that makes him look worse than he is, relative to the college guys.

[Truckules]

It's hard to get a read on Topic, other than he keeps getting hurt. He's supposed to be an exceptional playmaker and passer, but the clips packages show good reads, but not exceptional reads. Apparently his value is getting into the lane, but that's where you want Wembanyama to be. If he takes a long time to shoot, this impacts his pick-and-rolls. If he's not an excellent defender, then this impacts things further.

The Spurs would like to play 5 out primarily so I don't think this is really an issue. Also, I think Topic showed some flashes of high-level playmaking and IQ during his time with Mega. That's probably the one thing that is easily translatable to the NBA. It's everything else that you have to have some concerns about.

[CGD]

Well, currently they're my two selections, it's a matter of how I can get both of them.

Detroit is a threat to take Dillingham. Charlotte is a dim possibility to take Dillingham. Portland is unlikely.

Detroit is not likely to take Castle. Charlotte is a possibility to take Castle. Portland could take Castle.

I think Detroit's smartest play is to take Dillingham, though Buzelis is getting ink there. And despite shortcomings (heh heh) he's my main target. So I don't futz around and I take my player at 4.

I'd still feel out whether Charlotte, who may not be in love with any player at 6 and be okay waiting out Portland, would trade from 6 to 8, likely still get a guy they like (Holland or Williams, say). Last year, Indiana got Washington's 2028 SRP and the Suns' 2028 SRP to swap the 7/8 first round picks, so I'd see what it would take to do this.

Basically, I value Dillingham the most, so make sure I get him. I like Castle from this bunch, too. I think there's risk Dilly gets nabbed at 4-7 and I can potentially control for getting Castle. But if I can get Castle then Dillingham, then that works, too.

Tbh I think the Spurs go for Risacher or Castle with the 4 and don't have Dillingham on their radar.

Makes sense. I wouldn’t hate the combo, but my preference would be to wait on Dillingham (or best of him/reed/topic) at 8. I’m on the Castle at 4 bandwagon, but definitely think the Spurs take ZR if he’s still there. And if they do that, I hope they move up for Castle as you suggest.

[TD 21]

If there aren’t any players in this draft who have dynamic physical tools or the ability to create havoc… then the alternative to pursue these types is better.

The point is, it's a flawed premise. If you're going to expend high and mid lottery picks on defensive players, they better at least have the potential to be elite ones, not just average - good.


I think you may have unrealistic expectations about the role this draft will play in a multifaceted rebuild strategy. We still have to go through free agency, play the trade market game, and roll the draft dice a few more cycles. I see few, if any, Day 1 starters in the top 10 of this draft, and those who are (the centers) aren’t a position of need.

Im cool drafting what could amount to great role players or taking a few big swings on kids 2 years away. It’s the hand we have.

No, I don't and I'm basing this off of their own comments/actions over the years. They clearly have this pie in the sky fantasy of building this supposedly idealistic Celtics/Thunder style roster (where every core player can guard and has to be guarded) and think they can make it happen by sprinkling their magic pixie dust on non shooters, which usually fails.

I don't see Castle as a great role player, at least within' the context of this roster.

[duncan2150]

Assuming Topic is a drive and kick player, Washington works well because they have shooters. He and Wemby may not work because they're trying to get to the same places in the paint. One of topic's main strenght is the pick and roll, he could be deadly with victor.

[duncan2150]

He's holding a starting spot (and playing effectively) against much better competition. At 18, a year younger than the NCAA guys. He's physically the largest of the PG prospects (Assuming reported measurements are correct). Could easily play up at the 2 or even the 3. He has 2 NBA level tools already: 1) Drive and Finish, 2) Passing. His shot is likely to develop, as he shoots .878 on free throws. His defense is not strong, but the issue is overstated. Like just about every prospect, I expect his defense to get better with more experience. Also, unlike the NCAA guards, he is playing against men and pro offenses now, not college ball; that makes him look worse than he is, relative to the college guys. It's funny that pretty all the draft analysts or scouts value topic and here he's a scrub. For me watching him reminds me of sengun : different positions, different qualities and weaknesses but high IQ players with a lot of fundamentals killing it on some grown men league. I also think people really understimate playing in french or serbian league while having some good productions at 18 tough i can agree for salaun it will be early at 8

[exstatic]

Hate to be the one to enlighten you...

but pop never tanks - he is just now a shell of the coach he used to be...
what you saw this past season was pop trying his hardest to win games...

YMMV

[RC_Drunkford]

if you're an 18-year old playing for Red Star you're definitely not a scrub

[CorrectCrusader]

Here's (https://dizzledynasty.substack.com/p/stephon-castle-donovan-clingan-alex) a write up on the UCONN kids

[exstatic]

looking at many updated mocks we can say that the common sense of this forum is not on line with most of the mocks. which is a good sign IMO.
it's interesting that the forum totally cooled own on Topic, while various mocks se him going to SA at 4, while passing on Castle. is anyone here left who takes Topic over Castle?
I saw draftroom and James Barlowe move Castle to the Spurs at 4.
O'Connor has the Spurs taking Dillingham and Cody Willimas while passing on Risacher at 4 and Castle at 8. that won't happen, right?
I guess Wasserman has the most meltdownish mock with Topic and Holland. (while passing on Castle and Dillingham).

I would. I like Castle, and I think he could be a PG, but Topic IS a PG, right now, and a pick and roll master. People who like him aren’t neccessarily talking about him because there’s a strong possibility that he goes 2 to Washington.

[exstatic]

Ignoring the medicals and character. What makes Topic a better prospect based on his play alone

He had one injury, which he then re-aggravated. It’s the same one that Blake had, an MCL, and if you’re going to have a knee ligament injury, that’s the way to go. If he needs surgery, and we don’t know that, it’s a 3-6 month recovery, not a year like an ACL. And what are these character issues you’re babbling about?

[mo7888]

I would. I like Castle, and I think he could be a PG, but Topic IS a PG, right now, and a pick and roll master. People who like him aren’t neccessarily talking about him because there’s a strong possibility that he goes 2 to Washington.

Even with the injury issues? I definitely get it if they aren't a concern, but right now they are concerning..

[exstatic]

Excellent analysis, especially if you can follow that with why WIZ should pass on Sarr at 2.

I’m not sure they should. Their listed Cs are Bagley III and some rookie named Vukcevic.

[exstatic]

Even with the injury issues? I definitely get it if they aren't a concern, but right now they are concerning..

I addressed my feelings on that in the next post below the one you quoted.

[Limguogolo]

Zaccharie Risacher is 6'10, not 6'8.
(I dit the same thing when someone ask me about my ex-wife bra size. It didn't work. Someone took her in the first round.)

[alfahdlan]

I actually like Holland a lot more than I liked Kuminga in 2021. Their numbers look similar on paper, but Holland to me has a lot more suddenness and lateral agility to his game while Kuminga had more power. I worry about his rim finishing - even though the guy is an automatic paint touch, he shot 57% at the rim in a league where there is basically no paint protection.

The main argument for Holland from my perspective is this:
Elite draft prospects are a combination of 3 things:
1. Youth
2. Physical tools
3. Production against similar age or more mature prospects

In spite of his sometimes bonehaded plays and terrible outside shooting, Holland is probably the guy in the draft that best combines the 3. He'll still be 18 on draft night. His athleticism clearly pops given his first step, lateral quickness, and transition finishing (To me it's a wash between him and Dunn as the best athlete in the draft). And despite being put in a role that he clearly wasn't used to, he put up decent numbers against more mature competition. He actually did way better as a first-time primary initiator than I expected for an 18 year old, especially for a guy who was playing really without a point guard for most of the year and who played his entire high school career as an energy/glue guy/finisher. And he did improve over the course of the year; during the regular season his FT% was 76% while he put up a positive AS:TO. He shot poorly, but his form looks pretty good on his jumper as long as he corrects his base a little. And given his youth, you'd expect the rim finishing, handle, and jumper to improve over time especially as he gains more strength.

Compared to Kuminga, he shoots FTs better and has a higher motor both on tape and based on his metrics given his high OREB% and high STL%. Between that and his lateral agility and better defense, I think there's a good chance he turns out better than Kuminga down the line. Most reasonable estimate of his measurements are 6'7-6'8" with shoes and 6'10-6'11" wingspan which is decent for a wing especially with his athleticism. I think he's a perfectly reasonable top 3-5 pick in most drafts because of this so getting him anywhere outside the top 4 is probably a steal.

As an aside, you can very easily envision the play style that the Spurs would have if they took Holland and Sheppard. 2 elite perimeter defenders (Holland to guard the quick wings and guards, Sochan to guard the strong wings) in front of a Wemby backline. A defense focused on turnover generation and playing the passing lanes between Sheppard and Holland, both of whom had elite STL%, who have full license to gamble with Wemby behind them. An elite shooting PG who excels at hit-ahead passes in transition and pushing the pace synergizing with an athletic wing who excels in transition finishing. Sheppard's lack of advantage creation in the half court being covered up by Holland's ability to generate paint touches allowing him to function as an off-ball shooter. It's an interesting combo that I haven't thought about before but definitely seems appealing.

i really like this post by SpursBills. He gave a somewhat tangible structure/scheme on how those two picks can impact winning. I expect another to give an alternative structure/scheme to choose from.

[Degoat]

Spurs trade #8 & #35 for Giddey and #12. Does OKC hang up the phone? Would the spurs consider that? If Donovan Clingan falls to #8 I think a lot of teams will be calling the spurs

[DAF86]

The Flasher.

Well, I hope they learned their lesson then.