2024 NBA Draft Thread

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5-oEBIyk8Y

[SpursFan86]

Where does everyone stand on Collier at this point? I know his freshman year was a little underwhelming but he still showed some serious flashes of potential. I’d go with him over someone like Salaun if we’re just shooting for total upside at pick 8. Not my first choice but he’s not out of the question IMO.

[BacktoBasics]

Where does everyone stand on Collier at this point? I know his freshman year was a little underwhelming but he still showed some serious flashes of potential. I’d go with him over someone like Salaun if we’re just shooting for total upside at pick 8. Not my first choice but he’s not out of the question IMO.

I was wondering if he’s gonna drop back as much as people think he will. I think he goes 10-14 but 8 seems like a stretch with the options we’ll have at 8.

I have no problem with Salaun but it seems like an unnecessary reach at 8.

[Mr. Body]

Where does everyone stand on Collier at this point? I know his freshman year was a little underwhelming but he still showed some serious flashes of potential. I’d go with him over someone like Salaun if we’re just shooting for total upside at pick 8. Not my first choice but he’s not out of the question IMO.

I never liked Collier when I watched him. If there's a lottery-ish player I think is most unlikely to be drafted by the Spurs, it's Isaiah Collier.

Lazy and inattentive on defense, on offense his main move is barreling into the lane, which he was good at in college. Not a great touch scoring, but he drew a lot of fouls at that level, but was like at a .668 free throw percentage. He sometimes has good vision, but often blew very basic and easy passes. Charitably, because he's going too fast. Uncharitably, because his touch is not good. Nor is it good on his jumpshot, which rockets off the rim if he misses. Three point percentage is not a disaster but not one I believe in. Basically, a one trick pony whose trick won't play in the NBA. I don't see a team willing to let him spam going at the rim over better options. To me he's like a Scoot Henderson who is worse.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqaJKTjRgCQ

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx7J-auXsT0

[alfahdlan]

https://x.com/ethanbock_/status/1797958981261947387

https://x.com/TristanUda/status/1796247230552379567

https://x.com/csu_basketball/status/1797657372573499460
Antonio could compete at that 35th spot.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrT7f65nU5Y

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juU1l4Uew5M

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLC3nVQ3hb8

[The Truth #6]

Collier definitely seems like an anti-Spur but I think the narrative about him is baked in at this point and lacks some nuance, such as he seems to have made progress after coming back from his hand injury. Playing next to Bronny and his circus is not a valid excuse for playing shitty defense, but could be a part of their weirdly disastrous season. He was highly touted for some reasons. Is likely being underappreciated like Keyonte last year broadly speaking. But still not worth an 8 pick I would say. But does fit some obvious needs for this team. Also, he has flashes of great passing, possibly more than Devin or Reed, just very inefficient.

I don't think much is known of his personality other than he doesn't smile much. Spurs obviously have greater insight then we do.

[Mr. Body]

Collier definitely seems like an anti-Spur but I think the narrative about him is baked in at this point and lacks some nuance, such as he seems to have made progress after coming back from his hand injury. Playing next to Bronny and his circus is not a valid excuse for playing shitty defense, but could be a part of their weirdly disastrous season. He was highly touted for some reasons. Is likely being underappreciated like Keyonte last year broadly speaking. But still not worth an 8 pick I would say. But does fit some obvious needs for this team. Also, he has flashes of great passing, possibly more than Devin or Reed, just very inefficient.

I don't think much is known of his personality other than he doesn't smile much. Spurs obviously have greater insight then we do.

A person can certainly convince themselves of anything.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N14V2qPxY94

[cutewizard]

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[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brGJtqiBXdE

[The Truth #6]

A person can certainly convince themselves of anything.

In this draft, definitely. We all do. Yourself included.

[Degoat]

Pacome Dadiet seems to be rising in mock drafts

[mo7888]

Pacome Dadiet seems to be rising in mock drafts

He should...he's got some potential...

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrsJVynopg4

[cutewizard]

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk0-jbKXmz0

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qobxcYY6mhY

[CorrectCrusader]

Spurs were 13-14 over the last 27, and 7-4 over the last 11, even with the ragtag roster around Victor. They would have to break Victor’s leg to not win 30, with as many teams that will tank next year. Add a couple of vets, and you’re a play in team. If we draft high next year,it will have to be the ATL pick jumping into the top 4.

Those last few wins were because Pop decided to play the older and better vets (mamu, Barlow, Graham) over the shitters Malaki and Wesley and Zach. With how stacked the west is I see almost zero chance of a playoff birth without getting really lucky in the draft (low level allstar season from one of the picks) or a Trae young like trade.

[PhantomDashCam]

I have no idea what to make of Collier.
Some scouts are extremely high on him as they think he may be the best shot creator from this draft when it's all said and done.
I'm just not a fan of ball dominant guards who can't consistently shoot from the outside and rely overwhelmingly on the bulk advantage (in college) to get to the basket.

That's also why I'm fascinated by someone like Dillon Jones. Similar body types, sans Wingspan, but has some dribble creation ability to go with the bulk.
Admittedly older but Collier may not ever be as good as Jones is now...or this post just wracks up the massive L in time :lol


https://youtu.be/eB8nGT_9LUM?si=k87EqRn2rrt6P7rh

[CorrectCrusader]

I have no idea what to make of Collier.
Some scouts are extremely high on him as they think he may be the best shot creator from this draft when it's all said and done.
I'm just not a fan of ball dominant guards who can't consistently shoot from the outside and rely overwhelmingly on the bulk advantage (in college) to get to the basket.

That's also why I'm fascinated by someone like Dillon Jones. Similar body types, sans Wingspan, but has some dribble creation ability to go with the bulk.
Admittedly older but Collier may not ever be as good as Jones is now...or this post just wracks up the massive L in time :lol


https://youtu.be/eB8nGT_9LUM?si=k87EqRn2rrt6P7rh

Collier seems like a much worse Nikola Topic

[CorrectCrusader]

You know, watching more and more Topic film I really think he could become something special long term. He has that Luka type playmaking style that is really nice, and he's a great free throw shooter and finisher. I have faith in his ability to become a consistent 3 point shooter. He also reminds me of a less athletic but more shifty Tony Parker.

[PhantomDashCam]

Collier seems like a much worse Nikola Topic

To an extent, I feel the same way. Lead guards, below the rim finishers, quick first steps, defensive shortcomings...


You know, watching more and more Topic film I really think he could become something special long term. He has that Luka type playmaking style that is really nice, and he's a great free throw shooter and finisher. I have faith in his ability to become a consistent 3 point shooter. He also reminds me of a less athletic but more shifty Tony Parker.

Yeah I like Topic too. And I too am not at all worried about his shot long term. It's just a little flat. Small adjustment really.
I'm just really nervous about that latest injury and subsequent rehab process, possible surgery etc.
Could absolutely change the trajectory of not only his stock but career (if mishandled).

[onechance87]

You know, watching more and more Topic film I really think he could become something special long term. He has that Luka type playmaking style that is really nice, and he's a great free throw shooter and finisher. I have faith in his ability to become a consistent 3 point shooter. He also reminds me of a less athletic but more shifty Tony Parker.

yup,His injury scares me tho

[CorrectCrusader]

These are obviously highlights, but it's very easy to see how comfortable this 18 year old is in an NBA type league (24 second shot clock, pro players etc.)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45OCSlCMVwo

[duncan2150]

The May 23 Upside Swings podcast shat all over Salaun, and these are guys who at least watched the gamesOne dude has him having the worst feel and worst touch of any player he's ever scouted. All agreed that his only skill was his motor. Doesn't block shots or contest because he's standing around, can't shoot except for corners, can't finish, just a bash fest.I haven't watched enough myself, but they made a point I can agree with. Raw guys picked in the lottery better deliver in the first 2 years before they're given up on. Easier to be patient with later picks. If Salaun is years away, it might not be doable in San Antonio. G-league isn't better than France for development, not enough bigs and talent. And if he's too raw for the big club but under-served in the g-league, it's a recipe for a bad result. Unless you stash him as a lotto pick like Saric I don't have positive thoughtshttps://youtu.be/kpGyquTjAWg?si=QqGhjTt8I9n4xDV That’s Strange guys. I keep listening to some good stuff about Salaun.

[DrSteffo]

I have Salaun as a late lottery pick and would prefer Risacher, Holland, Willams, or Knecht (and Topic, Dillingham, Castle, or Sheppard). I hope they don't get drunk and draft another under-the radar- secret weapon, flashy player like Josh Primo. Just draft a solid PG and a wing please.

[exstatic]

Where does everyone stand on Collier at this point? I know his freshman year was a little underwhelming but he still showed some serious flashes of potential. I’d go with him over someone like Salaun if we’re just shooting for total upside at pick 8. Not my first choice but he’s not out of the question IMO.

Doesn’t shoot well. Doesn’t pass well. Not really a PG.

[exstatic]

Collier seems like a much worse Nikola Topic

Topic is a high level PnR player and an intuitive passer. Collier is neither of those. I’d call him a worse Carter.

[exstatic]

yup,His injury scares me tho

You act like players never recover from ligament injuries or surgeries. It’s the 21st century. Medicine is modern.

[exstatic]

These are obviously highlights, but it's very easy to see how comfortable this 18 year old is in an NBA type league (24 second shot clock, pro players etc.)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45OCSlCMVwo

If you talk bout his league,or compare him to Doncic one more time, the villagers with their torches will be on the move. :lol

[JPB]

Nah bro. I think you're thinking with a european pov where culturaly they want a balance in the lockerom's incomes whereas in the US they have the "I know my role, it's a business" type of mentality/culture

+ the new (educated) generation has become as cynical as the owners/FO

When you'vebeen traded 3 times maybe (and still, listen to guys talk about it, that always remains some kind of traumatism, specially if you have a family. There are interesting articles about it), but as a young guy who's never been through that process and only knew one team, that's different. You can hear about it all you want, you have to personnally grow through that kind of experience life to really understand it.

Yu can say it's a business, you're tough and all but that's kind of humiliating too to hear you're expandable and your team put you in a big bag of trash they'd had no problem dumping.

[JPB]

You know, watching more and more Topic film I really think he could become something special long term. He has that Luka type playmaking style

We're not watching the same guy then. he's lights years away from Luka style or playmaking skills to me. Different players, I don't understand the comparison.


I have faith in his ability to become a consistent 3 point shooter.
Faith doesn't cost anything, but now he can't rally shoot.


He also reminds me of a less athletic but more shifty Tony Parker.

Uh? TP was 10 times faster and more shitfy than Topic whos' pretty pedestrian.

If he had Luka playmaking skills and was more sneaky than TP , knee or not, he'd be #1, hands up. He's not in the same tier of players.

[PhantomDashCam]

You act like players never recover from ligament injuries or surgeries. It’s the 21st century. Medicine is modern.

Modern, yet not infallible. Non-contact injuries of any sort can be worrisome.

1636461269124259870

[rascal]

yup,His injury scares me tho

Why?

It's not career ending. If you like him the injury should not scare you away.
May only affect him in the early part of this coming year.

[couchman]

Ball has cartilage and meniscus gone, leaving bone on bone.
That’s very different from a ligament injury, which is totally repairable in today’s medical world.

[LeBowen]

We're not watching the same guy then. he's lights years away from Luka style or playmaking skills to me. Different players, I don't understand the comparison.

They're being compared because Topic is from the same region and has good size for the position.

While Topic has too many red flags for my liking, his offensive ceiling is just the type we need.
Pass first floor general who can score if needed.

[rascal]

Both Topic at 8 and Castle at 4 with Topic even being better will improve enough on their perimeter shooting not to be liabilities. Topic as the better playmaker and Castle as a stronger defender with both being able to play PG.

Both would be great picks for the Spurs if drafted together, would complement each other along with Vassell in a three guard rotation.

Spurs will be set at the guards if they come away with both Castle and Topic in this year's draft.

[Pauleta14]

When you'vebeen traded 3 times maybe (and still, listen to guys talk about it, that always remains some kind of traumatism, specially if you have a family. There are interesting articles about it), but as a young guy who's never been through that process and only knew one team, that's different. You can hear about it all you want, you have to personnally grow through that kind of experience life to really understand it.

Yu can say it's a business, you're tough and all but that's kind of humiliating too to hear you're expandable and your team put you in a big bag of trash they'd had no problem dumping.

I'm not saying it's not an issue, I'm saying it's part of the culture (in which I include medias who can undirectly lobby) more than it is in football (soccer) for ex.

From day one (draft) the idea that you don't chose your team is surreal already but there's more balance in player/FO power than there has ever been and I don't think there's another industry in the world that gives back to employees more than the NBA does.
Player/agents (Klutch Sport power and influence) keeps growing for ex) also have a lot of power

Thee are always some specific cases but globally the balance of power is slowly but surely is going in the player's side imo

[LeBowen]

Both Topic at 8 and Castle at 4 with Topic even being better will improve enough on their perimeter shooting not to be liabilities. Topic as the better playmaker and Castle as a stronger defender with both being able to play PG.

Both would be great picks for the Spurs if drafted together, would complement each other along with Vassell in a three guard rotation.

Spurs will be set at the guards if they come away with both Castle and Topic in this year's draft.

I'm fine with either one being picked, but if they get both they'd have to make some serious moves to improve spacing.

Devin is the only reliable shooter left in the rotation. A player that might be chased over screens.
Everyone else is dared to shoot except maybe Champagnie. But he should never be anything more than like 8th man in the rotation.

How would you work with Jeremy, Castle, Topic in the rotation for 4 perimeter positions?
Tre developed his shot a bit, but he's barely reliable on c&s from the corners.

The only two guard draft I'd consider is Castle and Dillingham.
Every other combination should be guard+wing. Or even two wings if they think those are BPA.

[rascal]

You know, watching more and more Topic film I really think he could become something special long term. He has that Luka type playmaking style that is really nice, and he's a great free throw shooter and finisher. I have faith in his ability to become a consistent 3 point shooter. He also reminds me of a less athletic but more shifty Tony Parker.

He is nothing like Parker. Parker was faster was able to blow past players with speed. You're over rating Topic comparing him to all stars like Parker and Luka.

Topic doesn't have the offensive shooting skills that Luka has and he'll never get there. I expect him to improve enough to be in a solid guard rotation for the Spurs but not be one of the top scoreres in the league.

[exstatic]

Modern, yet not infallible. Non-contact injuries of any sort can be worrisome.

1636461269124259870

You understand that Ball’s injury is meniscus, the cushion between the upper and lower leg bone, right? That’s totally different from a ligament injury. Dejounte had a completely torn ACL, which is more serious than an MCL, and he recovered and became an All Star. Bertans tore the same ACL twice, and hasn’t had any effects since.

[rascal]

I'm fine with either one being picked, but if they get both they'd have to make some serious moves to improve spacing.

Devin is the only reliable shooter left in the rotation. A player that might be chased over screens.
Everyone else is dared to shoot except maybe Champagnie. But he should never be anything more than like 8th man in the rotation.

How would you work with Jeremy, Castle, Topic in the rotation for 4 perimeter positions?
Tre developed his shot a bit, but he's barely reliable on c&s from the corners.

The only two guard draft I'd consider is Castle and Dillingham.
Every other combination should be guard+wing. Or even two wings if they think those are BPA.

Topic's and Castle's shooting are not finished products. Spurs are still building the team and not likely going to make the playoffs next year anyways and that's not a bad thing if they don't make the playoffs in a loaded draft next year.

Sochan Topic and Castle don't have to be long term options. The Spurs aren't stuck with them. You trade one or more of them if they don't improve on their shooting.

The wings aren't that special in this draft. And Dillingham will be weak defensively and Spurs want to draft defense.

I have no hope on Dillingham not being a defensive liability and bringing little in an all around game other than shooting while I have hope for Castle and Topic to improve on their shooting.
The Spurs also will not likely have any interest in a small pg high volume shooter(Dillingham), not a player they ever go for.

[Pauleta14]

You know, watching more and more Topic film I really think he could become something special long term. He has that Luka type playmaking style that is really nice, and he's a great free throw shooter and finisher. I have faith in his ability to become a consistent 3 point shooter. He also reminds me of a less athletic but more shifty Tony Parker.

Can he create separation with his defender like TP did tho?

I'm more worried about his lack of athleticism than his skillset

[LeBowen]

Topic's and Castle's shooting are not finished products. Spurs are still building the team and not likely going to make the playoffs next year anyways and that's not a bad thing if they don't make the playoffs in a loaded draft next year.

Doesn't matter they're not finished products. They can develop their shots, but they'll never be seen as dangerous shooters defenders chase over screens. And that's what Spurs need the most on offense.
Ballhandler you need to chase over screens Wemby is setting equals unguardable action if you have a couple more shooters to space the floor. It's that simple.


Sochan Topic and Castle don't have to be long term options. The Spurs aren't stuck with them. You trade one or more of them if they don't improve on their shooting.

Yeah, let's just use two top10 picks on players we could discard a year or two later.
Sorry, but you can't trade non-shooters these days. You can only cut them.


The wings aren't that special in this draft.

Wings aren't special, but neither are guards.
Dillingham is the only player with superstar potential. I don't think he'll reach it, but every once in a while one of these undersized guards becomes a star.
He's got the skillset. Others don't.


I have no hope on Dillingham not being a defensive liability and bringing little in an all around game other than shooting while I have hope for Castle and Topic to improve on their shooting.

Dillingham will be a defensive liability, but so are many other guards on playoff contenders.
Topic and Castle can improve their shooting, but there are levels to it.
There's a huge difference between someone you leave in the corner because he's the least dangerous shooter and someone you have to actively prevent from getting the ball.


The Spurs also will not likely have any interest in a small pg high volume shooter(Dillingham), not a player they ever go for.

Most likely, but we've seen stranger picks happen from PATFO as of late.


And Dillingham will be weak defensively and Spurs want to draft defense.

That's why we have a bunch of disgustingly bad defenders on the roster right now.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Dillon Jones is really fun to watch. Very unconventional set of tools. I wonder what his best position in the NBA would be.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZtDhPBsJik&t=232s

[Truckules]

Collier definitely seems like an anti-Spur but I think the narrative about him is baked in at this point and lacks some nuance, such as he seems to have made progress after coming back from his hand injury. Playing next to Bronny and his circus is not a valid excuse for playing shitty defense, but could be a part of their weirdly disastrous season. He was highly touted for some reasons. Is likely being underappreciated like Keyonte last year broadly speaking. But still not worth an 8 pick I would say. But does fit some obvious needs for this team. Also, he has flashes of great passing, possibly more than Devin or Reed, just very inefficient.

I don't think much is known of his personality other than he doesn't smile much. Spurs obviously have greater insight then we do.

I think context matters with him much more than most other prospects. He was a freshman shouldering a large offensive load on an awful team with a coach who seems to have been checked out. I think a large part of his inefficiency and lack of effort on D is due to circumstance. I'm reminded of Ant Edwards in college who also inefficiently shouldered most of the offensive load on a bad team and didn't put much effort in on defense as a result. Obviously, he doesn't have the ceiling that Ant did which is why he's in the back half of the lottery rather than the first pick, but I do agree that there's nuance that lots of people seem to be missing.

[BatManu20]

You know, watching more and more Topic film I really think he could become something special long term. He has that Luka type playmaking style that is really nice, and he's a great free throw shooter and finisher. I have faith in his ability to become a consistent 3 point shooter. He also reminds me of a less athletic but more shifty Tony Parker.


His game is nothing like TP's tbh. TP was small but lightning quick and his game was predicated on floaters and tear drops. Most scouts have compared Topic to a taller version of Goran Dragic, which is a good comp imo. When you watch their tapes, it's easy to see the similarities. Both are excellent passers who excel in PnR. Both really like to get downhill and attack the basket. Both are crafty scorers once they get to the cup. Neither can defend much. Dragic was a considerably better 3-point shooter than Topic is right now, but Dragic also came into the league as a 22 year-old, which makes you hope Topic can get there with time. People tend to forget how good of an offensive player Goran Dragic was though. He made a couple All-Star Games as a Reserve for a reason. Guy could really hoop.

If you could somehow guarantee that Topic would end up being as good as Dragic was then I would take him at 4. Not kidding. The problem is Topic's shooting isn't near Dragic's and there's no guarantee it'll get there (though it may), and those knee injuries are red flags imo. The kid can't seem to stay on the court. Maybe it's just bad luck on his part and he winds up having a long career like Dragic did -- Who knows. But that's the gamble you're taking with him.


1s2YJvXbnU4

8v4hJdAiDio

[Mr. Body]

I think context matters with him much more than most other prospects. He was a freshman shouldering a large offensive load on an awful team with a coach who seems to have been checked out. I think a large part of his inefficiency and lack of effort on D is due to circumstance. I'm reminded of Ant Edwards in college who also inefficiently shouldered most of the offensive load on a bad team and didn't put much effort in on defense as a result. Obviously, he doesn't have the ceiling that Ant did which is why he's in the back half of the lottery rather than the first pick, but I do agree that there's nuance that lots of people seem to be missing.

Honestly, I don't think I'm missing any context whatsoever. Collier's game depends entirely on one set of skills. He does have great speed and has a build that can be hard to handle when he's going downhill. He does have skills. His finishing was poor and he barely dunked for such a driving force - not great signs - but okay.

The problem is his core skillset is something NBA teams would loooooove to give him all the time. For example, I see him mocked to Miami a lot. Not a Heat player, really, but okay. Opponents would love to see him come into the game and just start trying to get downhill and draw fouls or spray bad passes around. That would be excellent compared to any other shot that could happen. Not getting anyone involved, low efficiency, very predictable.

When your key skills are things pro teams would salivate to just let you do, over and over, that's a really bad thing. An underrated problem for prospects. "Why yes, we would love Isaiah to keep doing this. Please keep doing this."

Add his very poor defense, which isn't just upright and slow and stuff, but low energy and uninvolved, these are extremely bad signs. He has enough that someone's going to give him a shot, and then another team is going to give him a shot, but he has a lot of boxes he'll have to tick before he starts getting where you even start wanting him to be. I think his defense is potentially way worse than Dillingham's. With RD, he at least has quickness and has effort and some buy-in and improvement. Still awful, but there's upside there. I don't think there's upside to Collier's defense. Lost cause.

[SpursBills]

Where does everyone stand on Collier at this point? I know his freshman year was a little underwhelming but he still showed some serious flashes of potential. I’d go with him over someone like Salaun if we’re just shooting for total upside at pick 8. Not my first choice but he’s not out of the question IMO.

I think he’ll put up numbers but I have serious questions about his decision making which is my number one criteria for being a useful playoff performer so I personally would avoid him. The keldon Johnson of guards if you will

[mo7888]

Both Topic at 8 and Castle at 4 with Topic even being better will improve enough on their perimeter shooting not to be liabilities. Topic as the better playmaker and Castle as a stronger defender with both being able to play PG.

Both would be great picks for the Spurs if drafted together, would complement each other along with Vassell in a three guard rotation.

Spurs will be set at the guards if they come away with both Castle and Topic in this year's draft.

How do you see those two working together? One coming off the bench or moving Devin in trade?

[rascal]

How do you see those two working together? One coming off the bench or moving Devin in trade?

Castle will begin the year as the starter at pg with the Topic injury. Will see how Topic's injury progresses but he'll get off to a slower start than Castle.

Topic will eventually work his way into playing pg with Castle moving over to play some at both the 1 and 2.

[JPB]

Modern, yet not infallible. Non-contact injuries of any sort can be worrisome.

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And (ofc) Ball opted in his 21M player option for next year.

[SpursFan86]

I think he’ll put up numbers but I have serious questions about his decision making which is my number one criteria for being a useful playoff performer so I personally would avoid him. The keldon Johnson of guards if you will

That’s fair. I’m not a huge fan of his but I do think the ceiling is there with him if he puts it all together (big “if”, obviously). Could be Tyrese Maxey-esque in his best case scenario. I just don’t really see Salaun as much of a safer bet at all, and don’t really think the ceiling is higher either.

Anyways, I keep waffling on Topic but now am starting to be back on the train of wanting him (especially at #8). Grabbing Castle or Sheppard at #4 and Topic at #8 would be a great draft.

[LeBowen]

No, it wouldn't.

I've asked many times and not a single poster who wants Sheppard ever replied.
How would you fit him into this roster?

If we assume that Devin and Wemby as starters are set in stone, how exactly would you fit Sheppard in there?
We need a point of attack defender for star point guards. We need spacing and we need someone to run the team, an actual playmaker.

Sheppard offers just spacing and takes up a guard position, meaning that he'd be a viable solution only if it's Castle+Sheppard draft combo, but odds of either one being available at #8 are very low.
But there's also a question mark above Castle's playmaking skills, he's not a point guard as of now. And neither is Sheppard.
Having Castle would also mean Jeremy has to move to the bench and we'd need another shooter at PF.

Sheppard is a good fit only for teams that have a point guard (forward) with size.
Finding undersized shooters that don't do much else is fairly easy.

?-Devin-?-?-Wemby
Two ? have to be good defenders.
Two ? have to be good shooters.
One ? has to be a POA defender.
One ? has to be a primary playmaker.

Obviously, one player can fill more than one need.
Adding Jeremy to the starting lineup makes things even more difficult.
If we're to win some actual basketball games, that is.

[JPB]

They're being compared because Topic is from the same region and has good size for the position.

While Topic has too many red flags for my liking, his offensive ceiling is just the type we need.
Pass first floor general who can score if needed.

Thats one of my issues with Topic. I'm not seeing a floor general or playmaker in him. I do'nt see him being able to create much in the NBA. and just my gut feeling but I don't believe spurs are that high on him.

He may be benefitting from the "Luka" effect, plus the way he's been playing in a team on a minor league build to showcase him vs. pretty weak opposition. I would look good too in the ABA League tbh :D Anyway, he's much closer to Teodosic or Micic than Luka to me.

We'll see but I personnally hope spurs stay away.

[ChumpDumper]

When you'vebeen traded 3 times maybe (and still, listen to guys talk about it, that always remains some kind of traumatism, specially if you have a family. There are interesting articles about it), but as a young guy who's never been through that process and only knew one team, that's different. You can hear about it all you want, you have to personnally grow through that kind of experience life to really understand it.

Yu can say it's a business, you're tough and all but that's kind of humiliating too to hear you're expandable and your team put you in a big bag of trash they'd had no problem dumping.

That's what the money is for. Cry me a river.

[Mr. Body]

Thats one of my issues with Topic. I'm not seeing a floor general or playmaker in him. I do'nt see him being able to create much in the NBA. and just my gut feeling but I don't believe spurs are that high on him.

He may be benefitting from the "Luka" effect, plus the way he's been playing in a team on a minor league build to showcase him vs. pretty weak opposition. I would look good too in the ABA League tbh :D Anyway, he's much closer to Teodosic or Micic than Luka to me.

We'll see but I personnally hope spurs stay away.

This really nails it for me too. There's not much to his game, not much manipulation, a lot of advantage over poor opposition. He even does that, back up for twenty feet thing like a wind up car, then go real fast at the defender who barely moves. None of his passes look anything different than what the Kentucky guards are doing and at least they are superb shooters. Even his height is a bit of a facade since it's all neck.

If he was from Taiwan playing this way, he'd not get the next Doncic shine. Just feel like he and Rizz have pretty limited skills and even within those skillsets they only seem pretty good. Now obviously he's been scouted extensively, but the tape doesn't show those things.

[JPB]

That's what the money is for. Cry me a river.

they'll sure survive but I'm not seeing this so much from a player perspective than how it can affect a team. And there's stuff money can't buy. Spurs are already a dysfunctional team, if only Wemby and Devin know or believe they're safe, good luck prasing team ball as a coach to the rest of the roster who will just focus on their own ass, stats and contract (which is exactly what Graham has been doing this year).

I mean one or two players being shopped is OK... 90% of your roster expandable is pretty brutal, specially for guys like Sochan, Keldon or Tre who might have perceived themselves as more important for that team and could suddenly be labeled as "not good enough to play with Wemby, or in a competitive team"... There might even be some resentment towards Victor, not like we felt tremendous chemistry last year. If 90% of your roster doesn't give a shit, you have a problem, unless you're tanking... which spurs might be doing next year again.

[ChumpDumper]

they'll sure survive but I'm not seeing this so much from a player perspective than how it can affect a team. And there's stuff money can't buy. Spurs are already a dysfunctional team, if only Wemby and Devin know or believe they're safe, good luck prasing team ball as a coach to the rest of the roster who will just focus on their own ass, stats and contract (which is exactly what Graham has been doing this year).

I mean one two players being shopped is OK... 90% of your roster expandable is pretty brutal, specially for guys like Sochan, Keldon or Tre who might have perceived themselves as more important for that team and could suddenly be labeled as "not good enough to play with Wemby, or in a competitive team"... There might even be some resentment towards Victor, not like we felt tremendous chemistry last year. If 90% of your roster doesn't give a shit, you have a problem, unless you're tanking... which spurs might be doing next year again.

It's worse if they all feel untouchable and continue to suck.

[exstatic]

they'll sure survive but I'm not seeing this so much from a player perspective than how it can affect a team. And there's stuff money can't buy. Spurs are already a dysfunctional team, if only Wemby and Devin know or believe they're safe, good luck prasing team ball as a coach to the rest of the roster who will just focus on their own ass, stats and contract (which is exactly what Graham has been doing this year).

I mean one or two players being shopped is OK... 90% of your roster expandable is pretty brutal, specially for guys like Sochan, Keldon or Tre who might have perceived themselves as more important for that team and could suddenly be labeled as "not good enough to play with Wemby, or in a competitive team"... There might even be some resentment towards Victor, not like we felt tremendous chemistry last year. If 90% of your roster doesn't give a shit, you have a problem, unless you're tanking... which spurs might be doing next year again.

Do you really think players not named Durant read Twitter and take seriously what a bunch of randos are saying? I also doubt the whole roster is being “shopped”. That implies that the Spurs are making calls trying to offload guys. My guess is that they’re taking calls and listening, but that’s a whole other thing from shopping players around.

[SpursDynasty85]

This really nails it for me too. There's not much to his game, not much manipulation, a lot of advantage over poor opposition. He even does that, back up for twenty feet thing like a wind up car, then go real fast at the defender who barely moves. None of his passes look anything different than what the Kentucky guards are doing and at least they are superb shooters. Even his height is a bit of a facade since it's all neck.

If he was from Taiwan playing this way, he'd not get the next Doncic shine. Just feel like he and Rizz have pretty limited skills and even within those skillsets they only seem pretty good. Now obviously he's been scouted extensively, but the tape doesn't show those things.

Two things that are going for him. He's 6'6'. No one anywhere near his size in this draft has the fluidity of handle and paint penetration. Second he is only 18 years old. Injury concerns are the only downside I see. NBA competition could make him even more injury prone.

[LeBowen]

Do you really think players not named Durant read Twitter and take seriously what a bunch of randos are saying? I also doubt the whole roster is being “shopped”. That implies that the Spurs are making calls trying to offload guys. My guess is that they’re taking calls and listening, but that’s a whole other thing from shopping players around.

There Is One Former Spur Who Gets Triggered By What A Bunch Of Randos Say.

[Mugen]

1798385134942744789

[LeBowen]

1798385134942744789

Was pretty obvious they're hiding something after his injury.
Journalists reported he'll need a surgery right away, his team made a statement that he won't.
Damn, no chance Wizards take him now.

[rascal]

No, it wouldn't.

I've asked many times and not a single poster who wants Sheppard ever replied.
How would you fit him into this roster?

If we assume that Devin and Wemby as starters are set in stone, how exactly would you fit Sheppard in there?
We need a point of attack defender for star point guards. We need spacing and we need someone to run the team, an actual playmaker.

Sheppard offers just spacing and takes up a guard position, meaning that he'd be a viable solution only if it's Castle+Sheppard draft combo, but odds of either one being available at #8 are very low.
But there's also a question mark above Castle's playmaking skills, he's not a point guard as of now. And neither is Sheppard.
Having Castle would also mean Jeremy has to move to the bench and we'd need another shooter at PF.

Sheppard is a good fit only for teams that have a point guard (forward) with size.
Finding undersized shooters that don't do much else is fairly easy.

?-Devin-?-?-Wemby
Two ? have to be good defenders.
Two ? have to be good shooters.
One ? has to be a POA defender.
One ? has to be a primary playmaker.

Obviously, one player can fill more than one need.
Adding Jeremy to the starting lineup makes things even more difficult.
If we're to win some actual basketball games, that is.

Sochan is a drain in the stating lineup. He should be coming off the bench.

[Ariel]

Modern, yet not infallible. Non-contact injuries of any sort can be worrisome.

1636461269124259870

Ball has cartilage and meniscus gone, leaving bone on bone.
That’s very different from a ligament injury, which is totally repairable in today’s medical world.
Lonzo has been dealing with multiple meniscus injuries for years and regularly had procedures done, his condition became so bad that he recently underwent a meniscus transplant in hopes of playing again. There are 2 types of meniscus surgeries: removal of the torn meniscus portion (meniscectomy) or repair of the torn meniscus. The former's recovery time is faster than the latter (think Embiid recovery time vs Vassell's) but can have long term effects on the knee, as you're removing part of the tissue that helps keep the knee's stability by absorbing and redistributing weight and avoids bones from grinding against each other. In time that accumulates and can affect cartilage as well, with recurring injuries and surgeries that lead to bone on bone knees (Lonzo Ball, Brandon Roy). That is worse than your typical ACL tear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNblKgemlXQ
PS: not health professional, just read up on it.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Lonzo has been dealing with multiple meniscus injuries for years and regularly had procedures done, his condition became so bad that he recently underwent a meniscus transplant in hopes of playing again. There are 2 types of meniscus surgeries: removal of the torn meniscus portion (meniscectomy) or repair of the torn meniscus. The former's recovery time is faster than the latter (think Embiid recovery time vs Vassell's) but can have long term effects on the knee, as you're removing part of the tissue that helps keep the knee's stability by absorbing and redistributing weight and avoids bones from grinding against each other. In time that accumulates and can affect cartilage as well, with recurring injuries and surgeries that lead to bone on bone knees (Lonzo Ball, Brandon Roy). That is worse than your typical ACL tear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNblKgemlXQ
PS: not health professional, just read up on it.

There is no hope. I can't think of another player that has been out as long as he has with an injury that comes back as anything worthwhile. Even if the surgery is 100% successful the degradation of skills over this time will be a career-killer.

[Ariel]

There is no hope. I can't think of another player that has been out as long as he has with an injury that comes back as anything worthwhile. Even if the surgery is 100% successful the degradation of skills over this time will be a career-killer.
I don't disagree with you. At this point he should have well over $50M in the bank (his current contract was $80M) so he should just focus on having a healthy, pain free life outside of professional sports.

[JPB]

I don't disagree with you. At this point he should have well over $50M in the bank (his current contract was $80M) so he should just focus on having a healthy, pain free life outside of professional sports.

Derrick Rose came back, although as a different player, and Ball is still young, but yeah if he can't make it after this year, you probably call it a career (or sign in the ABA League).

[LeBowen]

Sochan is a drain in the stating lineup. He should be coming off the bench.

That's why I didn't mention him in the starting lineup, he just makes things worse.
But Castle would be just another Sochan.

[NASpurs]

1798385134942744789

CIA POP making up a fake injury as a smoke screen to select him with the 8th pick /blue font

[z0sa]

Was pretty obvious they're hiding something after his injury.
Journalists reported he'll need a surgery right away, his team made a statement that he won't.
Damn, no chance Wizards take him now.

I knew instantly this was more serious than a mild sprain. I've worked with both mild and severe sprains, and you can about walk off a mild one unless you're aging or have the pain tolerance of a toddler. Two weeks, max, you're back in action at 99%+.

I wonder how torn his ACL is. A partial tear can be almost nothing and heal essentially on its own or just about as severe as totally tearing it. At 19, with multiple injuries already in his history, I'd consider him damaged goods and wouldn't risk anything in the lottery on him.

[itzsoweezee]

I knew instantly this was more serious than a mild sprain. I've worked with both mild and severe sprains, and you can about walk off a mild one unless you're aging or have the pain tolerance of a toddler. Two weeks, max, you're back in action at 99%+.

I wonder how torn his ACL is. A partial tear can be almost nothing and heal essentially on its own or just about as severe as totally tearing it. At 19, with multiple injuries already in his history, I'd consider him damaged goods and wouldn't risk anything in the lottery on him.

I thought it was the opposite for acls? Even a partial tear means a major surgery. Isn’t that what happened to Kawhi?

[PhantomDashCam]

Ball has cartilage and meniscus gone, leaving bone on bone.
That’s very different from a ligament injury, which is totally repairable in today’s medical world.


You understand that Ball’s injury is meniscus, the cushion between the upper and lower leg bone, right? That’s totally different from a ligament injury. Dejounte had a completely torn ACL, which is more serious than an MCL, and he recovered and became an All Star. Bertans tore the same ACL twice, and hasn’t had any effects since.


Lonzo has been dealing with multiple meniscus injuries for years and regularly had procedures done, his condition became so bad that he recently underwent a meniscus transplant in hopes of playing again. There are 2 types of meniscus surgeries: removal of the torn meniscus portion (meniscectomy) or repair of the torn meniscus. The former's recovery time is faster than the latter (think Embiid recovery time vs Vassell's) but can have long term effects on the knee, as you're removing part of the tissue that helps keep the knee's stability by absorbing and redistributing weight and avoids bones from grinding against each other. In time that accumulates and can affect cartilage as well, with recurring injuries and surgeries that lead to bone on bone knees (Lonzo Ball, Brandon Roy). That is worse than your typical ACL tear.
PS: not health professional, just read up on it.

The reason I brought up Ball was not to compare the injuries (as of posting, we still didn’t know what Topic’s injury was, severity etc. (that too has to be a red flag)), but the chain of events that lead to where Lonzo Ball is today.

Doctors, Agents, Organisation Key Personnel, Family etc.
They can all have different opinion's too - See Nephew.

I’m sure everybody thought in the beginning “modern medicine”…

Questions need to be asked such as:

Was Topic rushed back from his first injury? Is their an injury history?
Had he been dealing with discomfort before? Playing hurt? etc.

And that too can be contentious and unsatisfactory for a team betting on its improvement by betting on you, long term via the draft.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Derrick Rose came back, although as a different player, and Ball is still young, but yeah if he can't make it after this year, you probably call it a career (or sign in the ABA League).

Derrick Rose was an MVP before the injury. He was a quality back up afterwards. Lonzo Ball isn't starting from MVP-caliber.

[z0sa]

I thought it was the opposite for acls? Even a partial tear means a major surgery. Isn’t that what happened to Kawhi?

It truly depends on the severity of the tear of the ligaments and if there was secondary injury to their cartilage, which is why I'm wondering how bad it really is. Also, I'm not sure what the care plan would be considering a professional sports player - I've never had a pro as a patient. I'd bet you're right in that, pros would typically require surgery but I wouldn't be able to comment.

Partial tears are pretty rare, at least in my experience. Usually it's the whole she-bang and there's no knee stability at all, or it's mild and you just take ibuprofen, rest and wear a brace if necessary. In a young person's case, I'd say a partial strain is ok news - obviously no injury is good, but it's better than a complete tear. Takes months to recover from that, and yes, surgery would definitely be in order if it's on the severe. Maybe someone with a bit more ortho experience could comment further.

[baseline bum]

Damn can this draft get any shittier? First Dillingham comes in at 164. Then Sheppard measures with a 6'3.25" wingspan. Now Topic with a torn ACL. What next? Castle's car gets T-boned driving to a workout?

[Mr. Body]

Damn can this draft get any shittier? First Dillingham comes in at 164. Then Sheppard measures with a 6'3.25" wingspan. Now Topic with a torn ACL. What next? Castle's car gets T-boned driving to a workout?

Dillingham was always listed at 164.

[drpill]

Dillingham was always listed at 164.

I've seen you mention this before but I don't think it's true. He's listed at 176 in multiple places even now -- including ESPN and the UK Athletics website.

[baseline bum]

Dillingham was always listed at 164.

Last time you said that I linked you the ESPN and University of Kentucky pages listing him at 176.

[ChumpDumper]

Dilly got pretty ripped at Kentucky. I think he can transition to putting on a little more bulk.

[The Truth #6]

CIA POP making up a fake injury as a smoke screen to select him with the 8th pick /blue font

Ha. Or Pop likes the injury so he can get over himself!

[Mr. Body]

Last time you said that I linked you the ESPN and University of Kentucky pages listing him at 176.

Okay fine. He sucks now.

[Bruno]

Last summer, Kentucky conditioning coach posted about Dillingham going from 155 lbs to 172 lbs:
https://www.aseaofblue.com/2023/8/31/23854143/rob-dillingham-weight-room-uk-basketball

Him being back at 164 lbs is puzzling.

[Mr. Body]

If Dillingham was 6'4" and 200lbs he's easily be number one and this draft wouldn't be considered a shit draft. A guy that size shooting 44.4% from deep and a 30% assist rate.

There are hundreds of taller players who don't do anything with that size.

And so instead you get him at a discount because like 2009 everyone is gonna overthink this.

[ChumpDumper]

Of all the outcomes for which we force ourselves to be hopeful, Dilly's putting (back?) on weight seems one of the more obtainable ones.

[spurraider21]

Okay fine. He sucks now.
not really addressing the claim that he was always listed at 164

[LeBowen]

I always hated when people obsess over listed weight.

We see how the kid looks. We see how he plays. (for better or worse)
How can him being listed at 164 instead of 176 or whatever change your perception?
It's not like he'd become a positive defender if he was listed at 176.
I'd even argue that him being listed at lower weight leaves more room for improvement.

[JPB]

I always hated when people obsess over listed weight.

We see how the kid looks. We see how he plays. (for better or worse)
How can him being listed at 164 instead of 176 or whatever change your perception?
It's not like he'd become a positive defender if he was listed at 176.
I'd even argue that him being listed at lower weight leaves more room for improvement.
Skinny shaming.

[drpill]

Dillingham has room to grow for sure. I'm not sure how much additional weight he can put on but added muscle will help him in the paint and on some defensive possessions. He's played against bigger and stronger people for years and knows how to get his shots off and isn't afraid of contact on drives. I don't see 164 vs 176 as an issue. The talent is there, it's obvious what he brings and what he lacks, he was always undersized so if you liked him before there's not much reason to change your mind, IMO.

[Mr. Body]

I always hated when people obsess over listed weight.

We see how the kid looks. We see how he plays. (for better or worse)
How can him being listed at 164 instead of 176 or whatever change your perception?
It's not like he'd become a positive defender if he was listed at 176.
I'd even argue that him being listed at lower weight leaves more room for improvement.

Yeah, it doesn't fucking matter.

Every draft period people get obsessed over combine measurements. It's a way of making sense out of disorder. I get it. But so many athletic marvels get picked and fail because they suck. They can't play basketball. But even for the good players, a month from now no one's going to care.

To me it's the Jared Dudley Rule. Jared Dudley was slow as fuck. Barely athletic. Was drafted 22nd in 2007. Dude played until he was 35 because he knew how to play basketball. Was he the greatest? No. Was he good and reliable? Yes.

Obv. Dillingham is not Dudley. But Dillingham doesn't change if he's 176 pounds or he's 185 pounds. He's still shit on defense, awesome on offense. What changed? Nothing.

[Extra Stout]

I question how much weight Dillingham can put on. His frame is so narrow that his shoulders have a hard time sticking out through the armholes of a tank top basketball jersey.

[Mr. Body]

Hot take that's not all that hot: whether Dillingham improves and gets better at defense will have nothing to do with his weight.

[exstatic]

Last summer, Kentucky conditioning coach posted about Dillingham going from 155 lbs to 172 lbs:
https://www.aseaofblue.com/2023/8/31/23854143/rob-dillingham-weight-room-uk-basketball

Him being back at 164 lbs is puzzling.

Not really. I know NBA players drop weight through the season, sometimes a lot. They have a hard time overcoming the calorie deficit.

[benefactor]

not really addressing the claim that he was always listed at 164
He never addresses anything. This is the same guy that said the Western conference was terrible this year:lol

[jesterbobman]

No, it wouldn't.

I've asked many times and not a single poster who wants Sheppard ever replied.
How would you fit him into this roster?

If we assume that Devin and Wemby as starters are set in stone, how exactly would you fit Sheppard in there?
We need a point of attack defender for star point guards. We need spacing and we need someone to run the team, an actual playmaker.

Sheppard offers just spacing and takes up a guard position, meaning that he'd be a viable solution only if it's Castle+Sheppard draft combo, but odds of either one being available at #8 are very low.
But there's also a question mark above Castle's playmaking skills, he's not a point guard as of now. And neither is Sheppard.
Having Castle would also mean Jeremy has to move to the bench and we'd need another shooter at PF.

Sheppard is a good fit only for teams that have a point guard (forward) with size.
Finding undersized shooters that don't do much else is fairly easy.

?-Devin-?-?-Wemby
Two ? have to be good defenders.
Two ? have to be good shooters.
One ? has to be a POA defender.
One ? has to be a primary playmaker.

Obviously, one player can fill more than one need.
Adding Jeremy to the starting lineup makes things even more difficult.
If we're to win some actual basketball games, that is.

Decent fan of Sheppard, though I acknowledge his weaknesses. I think he offers a lot of what Lonzo offers, as a helper on D (obviously not the 1:1 defender and doesn't have the size), a boost to transition scoring with hit aheads, a secondary half court creator who you want next to another primary, though, shoots the ever living shit out of the ball.

I'd be fine drafting Sheppard. I think the team will opt to be a relatively egalitarian offense, with Wemby involved a lot in the half court, ala Jokic in Denver. That reduces the need for a primary playmaker (though, obviously you'd love to get someone who can do that, you're not going to say no if there was a Luka level prospect in this draft).

The fit in the starting lineup would be Sheppard - Vassell - SF (I'd try and pry Okoro away from the Cavs) - Sochan - Wemby. Not a locked in, long term starting lineup, but I don't think we know our starting lineup now for title teams. That's going to change over time.

Offensively, run things through Wemby a lot, with inverted pick and rolls / handoffs with each of the players being a sufficient dribbler / passer / playmaker, and shooting in 3 of the 4 non-wemby spots. Sheppard is a good enough off ball player to move and cut and be valuable with and without the ball. Defensively, a bit weak. Not going to be a title team. Okoro could take on POA responsibilities, but you're going to have to put Sheppard on someone, and if there's a big team he'll be hunted. He's a weak 1:1 defender, who was (very) valuable as a helper.

Also possible that Sheppard isn't good enough to be a starter (it happens), and he moves to a bench role, as a movement shooter who generates defensive events and can handle bench level defensive assignments.

[objective]

Decent fan of Sheppard, though I acknowledge his weaknesses. I think he offers a lot of what Lonzo offers, as a helper on D (obviously not the 1:1 defender and doesn't have the size), a boost to transition scoring with hit aheads, a secondary half court creator who you want next to another primary, though, shoots the ever living shit out of the ball.

I'd be fine drafting Sheppard. I think the team will opt to be a relatively egalitarian offense, with Wemby involved a lot in the half court, ala Jokic in Denver. That reduces the need for a primary playmaker (though, obviously you'd love to get someone who can do that, you're not going to say no if there was a Luka level prospect in this draft).

The fit in the starting lineup would be Sheppard - Vassell - SF (I'd try and pry Okoro away from the Cavs) - Sochan - Wemby. Not a locked in, long term starting lineup, but I don't think we know our starting lineup now for title teams. That's going to change over time.

Offensively, run things through Wemby a lot, with inverted pick and rolls / handoffs with each of the players being a sufficient dribbler / passer / playmaker, and shooting in 3 of the 4 non-wemby spots. Sheppard is a good enough off ball player to move and cut and be valuable with and without the ball. Defensively, a bit weak. Not going to be a title team. Okoro could take on POA responsibilities, but you're going to have to put Sheppard on someone, and if there's a big team he'll be hunted. He's a weak 1:1 defender, who was (very) valuable as a helper.

Also possible that Sheppard isn't good enough to be a starter (it happens), and he moves to a bench role, as a movement shooter who generates defensive events and can handle bench level defensive assignments.

I agree with this.

Wemby likes having chances to playmake, that's part of not being pigeonholed as a classic center.

Sheppard should be good enough to do close to what Jones was doing on ball but with the bonus of deadly shooting

His POA defense was bad as a freshman. Give him some time and teaching to get better.

[Extra Stout]

I am enjoying the takes saying that a guy who shoots over 50% from 3 only fits on certain teams.

[TD 21]

Castle will begin the year as the starter at pg with the Topic injury. Will see how Topic's injury progresses but he'll get off to a slower start than Castle.

Topic will eventually work his way into playing pg with Castle moving over to play some at both the 1 and 2.

Great idea, have virtually every moment where they're both active of at least one ball handling guard on the floor who can't shoot and that's not even factoring in Jones and Sochan.

Just what a team that hasn't been able to shoot in the better part of a decade needs needs.

[MaNu4Tres]

What will it take to trade up from 8 to 2?

[CorrectCrusader]

If you want to stealth tank then drafting Topic is no brainer

[Chinook]

If Topic is the guy they like, they should take him. The Spurs don't especially need a PG this year with Jones and Wesley already on the team and free agency if that fails. Drafting Topic would also allow the Spurs to see what they have if they draft Sheppard with their other first. If Sheppard is more of an off-guard in the NBA, then he and Topic complement each other, and the team will just have to be okay with Topic/Sheppard/Vassell/Sochan/Wembanyama as the starting five. If they're both PGs, let Jones go and let them compete to see who starts and who's the backup. Then when it's time to make the inevitable trade for a star, they will be able to include a blue-chip prospect while retaining a starting PG.

[Big Empty]

If you want to stealth tank then drafting Topic is no brainer
I hope not #facepalm, this crossed my mind

[DPG21920]

If Topic is the guy they like, they should take him. The Spurs don't especially need a PG this year with Jones and Wesley already on the team and free agency if that fails. Drafting Topic would also allow the Spurs to see what they have if they draft Sheppard with their other first. If Sheppard is more of an off-guard in the NBA, then he and Topic complement each other, and the team will just have to be okay with Topic/Sheppard/Vassell/Sochan/Wembanyama as the starting five. If they're both PGs, let Jones go and let them compete to see who starts and who's the backup. Then when it's time to make the inevitable trade for a star, they will be able to include a blue-chip prospect while retaining a starting PG.

Agree. I hope Topic is not the guy, but if he is, him getting picked is still understandable some even with injury. At that point, I’d prefer them trade 4 for 7+14 probably and try to snag Reed+Topic with 7 and 8 (which I think is doable) and at least get another pick then.

[mo7888]

Agree. I hope Topic is not the guy, but if he is, him getting picked is still understandable some even with injury. At that point, I’d prefer them trade 4 for 7+14 probably and try to snag Reed+Topic with 7 and 8 (which I think is doable) and at least get another pick then.

As flat as this draft is, trading back makes alot of sense. You could possibly pick up Williams who was mocked top 8 not long ago.

[Degoat]

Do y’all think Matas Buzelis could play SF consistently or will he be a liability there? It would be nice to upgrade Champagnie’s spot in the starting lineup lol

[PhantomDashCam]

1798513206996136297

Sac-Town pick #13 and #45. Shows the variance on prospects and how mocks will likely change as a result.

[dbestpro]

According to ESPN’s NBA Draft insider Jonathon Givony, the Spurs are even entertaining the idea of packaging No. 4 and No. 8 to trade for the first overall pick from the Atlanta Hawks. In this scenario, the Spurs would reportedly be targeting Frenchman Zaccharie Risacher.

[TD 21]

What will it take to trade up from 8 to 2?

4 and 8 for 2 and 26 which would open up the possibility of packaging 26 and 35 to get into the low 20s.


The Spurs don't especially need a PG this year with Jones and Wesley already on the team and free agency if that fails.

Wesley is just a body. He won't be in the rotation again (barring absences obviously) and might not even be on the team if he's used as ballast in a trade.


Do y’all think Matas Buzelis could play SF consistently or will he be a liability there? It would be nice to upgrade Champagnie’s spot in the starting lineup lol

He is a SF. In time, he should grow into being more of a combo forward if not more of a PF.

He's definitely not a starter out of the gate though.

[Mr. Body]

As flat as this draft is, trading back makes alot of sense. You could possibly pick up Williams who was mocked top 8 not long ago.

I'd go The Furph instead. Probably just straight up better.

[Uriel]

According to ESPN’s NBA Draft insider Jonathon Givony, the Spurs are even entertaining the idea of packaging No. 4 and No. 8 to trade for the first overall pick from the Atlanta Hawks. In this scenario, the Spurs would reportedly be targeting Frenchman Zaccharie Risacher.
One consideration from doing this type of deal is how it affects the Hawks’ winning prospects in the next 3 years, given the picks they owe us. Suppose they agree to this deal and draft Clingan at #4 and Knecht at #8. Would that help them win more games in the next 3 years than just drafting Risacher at #1 outright? I believe it would.

[BackHome]

Do y’all think Matas Buzelis could play SF consistently or will he be a liability there? It would be nice to upgrade Champagnie’s spot in the starting lineup lol

He doesn’t have the handles or shooting you want from the SF position and I am a strong believer he will have to grow into the PF position. So the sooner he gets on that Peanut butter special sauce diet the better off he will be

[Mr. Body]

According to ESPN’s NBA Draft insider Jonathon Givony, the Spurs are even entertaining the idea of packaging No. 4 and No. 8 to trade for the first overall pick from the Atlanta Hawks. In this scenario, the Spurs would reportedly be targeting Frenchman Zaccharie Risacher.

I love how hilariously inept they are at making things up. The Luka Doncic-Trae Young trade only had one other element, a 1-5 protected pick in the next draft, and that was a move from 3 to 5 involving vastly better regarded players. So, ESPN wants us to believe in this flat draft that the price for moving up basically the same two slots would be a 4 and 8 from the same draft? GTFOH.

[rankingtear]

Do y’all think Matas Buzelis could play SF consistently or will he be a liability there? It would be nice to upgrade Champagnie’s spot in the starting lineup lol

He has some Mamu, weak for PF and laterally slow for SF.

[cutewizard]

According to ESPN’s NBA Draft insider Jonathon Givony, the Spurs are even entertaining the idea of packaging No. 4 and No. 8 to trade for the first overall pick from the Atlanta Hawks. In this scenario, the Spurs would reportedly be targeting Frenchman Zaccharie Risacher.

-----------------------------------

i think Risacher has always been the target hmmmmmmm

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX2zL8IYQq8

[Vienna]

well, I do expect the Spurs FO entertaining ideas like the mentioned one, because THAT'S THEIR FUCKING JOB.
doing their homework doesn't mean that they will eventually pull the trigger on this ideas.

people here tell all the time, that this is a very weak draft, right? so, a number 8 pick in this draft doesn't have the same value than in most other drafts, right?
so why get crazy over the (theoretically) scenario to use the pick for a trade up deal? and comparing trades in different drafts, as if thoses were precedencial cases and would determine pricing of the future, won't get you nowhere.

I tried to make a point about Risacher some weeks ago, to not just look at the player, but rather look at the circumstances. If Wemby would be happy to get Risacher at his side, a #8 pick in a allegedly weak draft is probably a small price for an important move regarding bonding your superstar to the franchise. (it's no secret how close the ties between the Risacher and Wembanyama families are).

Spurs might see some more reasons why they might be willing to trade the #8 pick. that is roster spots, cap space, free agency and future fexibility. so it will be a weighing up choices and in the big picture the trade up scenario might win, even if the talent you trade for doesn't look like a can't miss opportunity at first glance.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZOY41FxKFM

[cutewizard]

Wemby at center and then Zacchary at forward could be terrifying for years to come......

[exstatic]

According to ESPN’s NBA Draft insider Jonathon Givony, the Spurs are even entertaining the idea of packaging No. 4 and No. 8 to trade for the first overall pick from the Atlanta Hawks. In this scenario, the Spurs would reportedly be targeting Frenchman Zaccharie Risacher.

Givoney isn’t the most plugged in guy for rumors.

[exstatic]

well, I do expect the Spurs FO entertaining ideas like the mentioned one, because THAT'S THEIR FUCKING JOB.
doing their homework doesn't mean that they will eventually pull the trigger on this ideas.

people here tell all the time, that this is a very weak draft, right? so, a number 8 pick in this draft doesn't have the same value than in most other drafts, right?
so why get crazy over the (theoretically) scenario to use the pick for a trade up deal? and comparing trades in different drafts, as if thoses were precedencial cases and would determine pricing of the future, won't get you nowhere.

I tried to make a point about Risacher some weeks ago, to not just look at the player, but rather look at the circumstances. If Wemby would be happy to get Risacher at his side, a #8 pick in a allegedly weak draft is probably a small price for an important move regarding bonding your superstar to the franchise. (it's no secret how close the ties between the Risacher and Wembanyama families are).

Spurs might see some more reasons why they might be willing to trade the #8 pick. that is roster spots, cap space, free agency and future fexibility. so it will be a weighing up choices and in the big picture the trade up scenario might win, even if the talent you trade for doesn't look like a can't miss opportunity at first glance.

A couple of us have said this a few times. #1 isn’t substantially better than #4, and in a crap draft more chances = better odds of hitting something.

[JPB]

Castle will begin the year as the starter at pg with the Topic injury. Will see how Topic's injury progresses but he'll get off to a slower start than Castle.

Topic will eventually work his way into playing pg with Castle moving over to play some at both the 1 and 2.

If Topic gets surgery, which is a possibility (as Givony mentioned yesterday) and will be evaluated and discussed with NBA doctors, it's fair to consider his rookie season could be a blank one or half of it maybe. Teams won't take any risks and might even shut him down for the season, specially after he already re-injuring his knee.

[JPB]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZOY41FxKFM

Can't remember who mentioned it here already but he developed a very quick release after the catch on his 3s, volleyball style. We are starting and I beleive will continue to see that more and more in the NBA, which makes sense and give defenders less time to contest.

[LeBowen]

A couple of us have said this a few times. #1 isn’t substantially better than #4, and in a crap draft more chances = better odds of hitting something.

If PATFO thinks Risacher is the player to get in this draft and is a perfect fit, then #1 is worth more than Castle+Dillingham or whatever.
I can see them making that offer for #1 pick only if they want to seriously compete right away and are willing to trade for a couple more good players.

[Ariel]

4 and 8 for 2 and 26 which would open up the possibility of packaging 26 and 35 to get into the low 20s.
I think it all depends on how Washington feels about the prospects available at no. 4. They hgave a glut of wings, so If they have a few players on the same tier as Risacher (like, say, Castle or Clingan) I could see them trading back for less than #8 (say future protected first). But there's also a world where they don't move an inch and the Spurs love the fit with Risacher so much they're willing to part with both 4 and 8. I wouldn't go that far for the Spurs, but if that's their choice I don't see how Washington would reject that offer.

[mo7888]

I'd go The Furph instead. Probably just straight up better.

I'm pretty high on furph, so I'd have no problem with that....depending on who we went with on the earlier picks, filipowski, McCain and a couple others would be under consideration too.

[The Truth #6]

I don't know if trading up for the #1 pick necessarily suggests winning now or a big move. Maybe they just really like Risacher for fit and they'd rather have one new player than two due to roster crunch now and especially next year with more picks coming in. In fact, we might see that strategy again of consolidating first in next year's draft as well.

[The Truth #6]

But if we keep 4 and 8, looking at this through "upside", Spurs get Buzelis at 4 and then can play it safe at 8 with Carter or Knecht, or swing again with Cody.

Honestly, Buzelis and Cody both seem like Spurs types: articulate, multi dimensional and questionable motors.

[mo7888]

But if we keep 4 and 8, looking at this through "upside", Spurs get Buzelis at 4 and then can play it safe at 8 with Carter or Knecht, or swing again with Cody.

Honestly, Buzelis and Cody both seem like Spurs types: articulate, multi dimensional and questionable motors.

I'm very high on Matas. He's #3 on my board. The only question for me is the fit with Sochan. Matas will jave to significantly improve his outside shooting to play in a lineup with Sochan. I think he will with time, but it is a question mark.

[SpursFan86]

I don’t buy the “Spurs are considering trading 4 and 8 to move up to #1” talk at all. Seems like pure conjecture from Givony and it just doesn’t make sense in a draft like this. Hard to imagine they’re THAT confident in Risacher.

[Extra Stout]

I'm very high on Matas. He's #3 on my board. The only question for me is the fit with Sochan. Matas will jave to significantly improve his outside shooting to play in a lineup with Sochan. I think he will with time, but it is a question mark.
If Sochan handcuffs the Spurs so much in which players they can draft on account of his lack of shooting, then maybe the answer involves moving Sochan?

[LeBowen]

If Sochan handcuffs the Spurs so much in which players they can draft on account of his lack of shooting, then maybe the answer involves moving Sochan?

Not likely, at least not this season.
Imo, the obvious answer is that if we draft players who can't shoot yet, they start off the bench.

[Pauleta14]

A couple of us have said this a few times. #1 isn’t substantially better than #4, and in a crap draft more chances = better odds of hitting something.

That's bc you're talking overall level's peception

Maybe PATFO isn't interested by the bpa but by a specific profile they've studied closely and think is the best fit?

In that case it wouldn't be absurd to combine 4&8 to get the 1st pick. For all the criticism tehy deserve, PATFO has done a lot more work and have access to a lot more infos than any of us.

I'm among the few who believes the team urgently needs experience and adding only 1 rookie to dev (and give playing time) is enough. Two might be too much considering their clear choice to keep developping Sochan Vassell and Co AND the need to bring more exp players via trade or free agency

Finallly, 25' in coming

[mo7888]

If Sochan handcuffs the Spurs so much in which players they can draft on account of his lack of shooting, then maybe the answer involves moving Sochan?

I don't disagree with that.... I just think the FO does...

[CorrectCrusader]

Do y’all think Matas Buzelis could play SF consistently or will he be a liability there? It would be nice to upgrade Champagnie’s spot in the starting lineup lol

If you draft Buzelis you move Sochan to SF

[objective]

I think Buzelis if he can't shoot will suffer like Samanic, though Buzelis does have a lot more help rim protection to his game but doesn't seem a big rebounder

He doesn't have on ball juice, he's not a playmaker, he's scoring on cuts and threes

But the problem like Samanic is that if he's not a legit three point shooter and respected as such, when push comes to shove, coaches will just go with a SF who can shoot and has wing skills. There's tons of wings who will be played as small ball 4s instead of unreliable 4s. For example, Buzelis was thought to be a target of Atlanta had they not jumped in the lottery ... Snyder would go with Bey or Hunter over him. Other guys who would get minutes at 4 in crunch time would be your Taurian Princes or Jae Crowder or Eason or Jones Jr or Hart or Keldon etc etc etc

If he's not a real threat like from 3 he'll probably be shuffled off.

[CorrectCrusader]

Buzelis form is good so I don't think shooting will be a problem for him long term.

[Mr. Body]

well, I do expect the Spurs FO entertaining ideas like the mentioned one, because THAT'S THEIR FUCKING JOB.
doing their homework doesn't mean that they will eventually pull the trigger on this ideas.

people here tell all the time, that this is a very weak draft, right? so, a number 8 pick in this draft doesn't have the same value than in most other drafts, right?
so why get crazy over the (theoretically) scenario to use the pick for a trade up deal? and comparing trades in different drafts, as if thoses were precedencial cases and would determine pricing of the future, won't get you nowhere.

I tried to make a point about Risacher some weeks ago, to not just look at the player, but rather look at the circumstances. If Wemby would be happy to get Risacher at his side, a #8 pick in a allegedly weak draft is probably a small price for an important move regarding bonding your superstar to the franchise. (it's no secret how close the ties between the Risacher and Wembanyama families are).

Spurs might see some more reasons why they might be willing to trade the #8 pick. that is roster spots, cap space, free agency and future fexibility. so it will be a weighing up choices and in the big picture the trade up scenario might win, even if the talent you trade for doesn't look like a can't miss opportunity at first glance.

One, if Wembanyama is starting to call the shots to play with his buddies, we have problems. This never ends well.

Two, I'm not sure if you have trouble reading. My point, clearly stated, is that using the 8 to move up is wild overpay.

I'm not against moving up in this draft. I've pitched moving from 8 to 6 to secure Castle. I'm pointing out, with the Luka/Trae deal, that it didn't take as much to make that move in a better draft. Picks in a current draft are always more valuable than the same picks further out.

Paying 4 + 8 to move up two slots is straight up overpaying to move up in this draft. Yet for some reason Givony is deciding to set the price. It's really crazy. It's almost like he's trying to prevent it from happening. Or Atlanta or the Wizards are trying to set a price for their picks.

So... I can see the Spurs trying to move up to get Risacher. I hope it's not just to make Victor happy. If they burn that 8 pick just to move up two ticks to get him, we're going to have an extremely perturbed fanbase, including me. Not simply because of the quality of player they secure, who is on the same level as both players they could get otherwise, but because they paid through the nose to get there.

The whole issue is the fake cost.

[Vienna]

A couple of us have said this a few times. #1 isn’t substantially better than #4, and in a crap draft more chances = better odds of hitting something.

yes. that makes it the opinion of a group, but not yet common sense. using that logic, whenever the draft locks bad, you would try to get as many picks as you can? a couple of us might say this isn't the best strategy.

[Extra Stout]

If the Spurs ended up with something like 2 + 20 in exchange for 4 + 8 + 35, that’s OK. Like TD 21 said.

[Vienna]

One, if Wembanyama is starting to call the shots to play with his buddies, we have problems. This never ends well.

Two, I'm not sure if you have trouble reading. My point, clearly stated, is that using the 8 to move up is wild overpay.

I'm not against moving up in this draft. I've pitched moving from 8 to 6 to secure Castle. I'm pointing out, with the Luka/Trae deal, that it didn't take as much to make that move in a better draft. Picks in a current draft are always more valuable than the same picks further out.

Paying 4 + 8 to move up two slots is straight up overpaying to move up in this draft. Yet for some reason Givony is deciding to set the price. It's really crazy. It's almost like he's trying to prevent it from happening. Or Atlanta or the Wizards are trying to set a price for their picks.

So... I can see the Spurs trying to move up to get Risacher. I hope it's not just to make Victor happy. If they burn that 8 pick just to move up two ticks to get him, we're going to have an extremely perturbed fanbase, including me. Not simply because of the quality of player they secure, who is on the same level as both players they could get otherwise, but because they paid through the nose to get there.

The whole issue is the fake cost.

to see things from a different perspective than you doesn't necessarily mean reading troubles.

things might look different from a different angle. that's all.

and I think the approach, to not even try to make Wemby happy, because this might end up getting a spoiled player who tries to get involved with FO decissions......well....I could tell you one thing for sure what causes an extremly perturbed fanbase.......that's Wemby not wanting to extend his rookie contract in SA, because of a FO not willing to make him happy because he might get spoiled.

[LeBowen]

One, if Wembanyama is starting to call the shots to play with his buddies, we have problems. This never ends well.

Tbh, letting Wemby have his way once only for it to fail miserably would be a good way to make him realize not to question people who are actually paid to scout, evaluate, trade and draft players.
(I'm not saying that Wemby will even do soemthing like this, just in case it happens.)


So... I can see the Spurs trying to move up to get Risacher. I hope it's not just to make Victor happy. If they burn that 8 pick just to move up two ticks to get him, we're going to have an extremely perturbed fanbase, including me. Not simply because of the quality of player they secure, who is on the same level as both players they could get otherwise, but because they paid through the nose to get there.

Spurs starting lineup needs, no particular order:
1) Primary playmaker.
2) Shooting.
3) Point of attack defender.
4) Perimeter defense in general.

Risacher is the only prospect who fills at least one need on both sides of the floor and he looks to be the safest pick, even if his ceiling isn't that high.
Other than him, it's either defenders that can't shoot or shooters that can't defend. Or theoretical players who need to improve everything in order to even stay in the league.

Other than Risacher, Dillingham would fill playmaking and shooting needs, but he'd be the worst defender in the league.
I'm not that high on Risacher, but I can see the logic if they think his floor is a solid 3-D player with upside to develop into elite 3-D player.
With the way the game is being played today, an elite wing defender that shoots 40% from deep on 8 attempts per game would be invaluable.

[rankingtear]

Zacch is the best bet on this draft to adress our wing problem. This is a no brainer for me. The amount of shooting we need with a Center centric offense is being undersold. That kind of shooting also has to be able to stay on the floor. Zacch is the best bet to do this.

[JPB]

I think it all depends on how Washington feels about the prospects available at no. 4. They hgave a glut of wings, so If they have a few players on the same tier as Risacher (like, say, Castle or Clingan) I could see them trading back for less than #8 (say future protected first). But there's also a world where they don't move an inch and the Spurs love the fit with Risacher so much they're willing to part with both 4 and 8. I wouldn't go that far for the Spurs, but if that's their choice I don't see how Washington would reject that offer.

I do believe they could reject it. They were pleased with how Bilal evolved this season and trends or (perceived) patterns may have an influence on drafting, specially uncertain drafts. They certainly see Risacher as a a bigger upside player than Coulibaly and the fact spurs would be high on Zach would comfort them on that.

But who knows.

[Kevin]

Yeah Sochan gets one more year to figure out his shot before he becomes a non consideration in long term roster construction. His lack of shooting really cripples the Spurs ability to swing on players of a similar archetype who might develop their jumper and become a star.

[Uriel]

FWIW, I tried simulating the Spurs on 2K by adding a bunch of different prospects (Risacher, Castle, Dillingham, Topic, and Salaun) to the roster. Here are my observations:

1. Risacher is such a good fit on this current roster.
2. The rotations were more sensible when a PG like Dillingham or Topic was on the roster.
3. Castle can start at the 3 between Vassell and Sochan.
4. Backup 4 is a sneaky need for this team right now, unless you believe in Bassey.

[Mr. Body]

FWIW, I tried simulating the Spurs on 2K by adding a bunch of different prospects (Risacher, Castle, Dillingham, Topic, and Salaun) to the roster. Here are my observations:

1. Risacher is such a good fit on this current roster.
2. The rotations were more sensible when a PG like Dillingham or Topic was on the roster.
3. Castle can start at the 3 between Vassell and Sochan.
4. Backup 4 is a sneaky need for this team right now, unless you believe in Bassey.

Rob Dillingham and Kyle Filipowski. Got it.

[exstatic]

If PATFO thinks Risacher is the player to get in this draft and is a perfect fit, then #1 is worth more than Castle+Dillingham or whatever.
I can see them making that offer for #1 pick only if they want to seriously compete right away and are willing to trade for a couple more good players.
Spurs rarely lock-in on a player like that, this wouldn’t likely be a draft where they would, and I’m not sure Risacher is any better than Salaun or Cody Williams. I’ll grant your possible scenario where they really want Risacher, but I’m not buying Givoney’s BSPN click bait. He’s an analytics and talent evaluator guy, not an insider info guy, and he’s already been wrong about the extent of Topic’s injury by listening to his “sources”.

[TD 21]

4. Backup 4 is a sneaky need for this team right now, unless you believe in Bassey.

Actually, starting four is but it'll continue to be handed to Sochan.

:lmao At the notion of Bassey being able to play the four.

[LeBowen]

Spurs rarely lock-in on a player like that, this wouldn’t likely be a draft where they would, and I’m not sure Risacher is any better than Salaun or Cody Williams. I’ll grant your possible scenario where they really want Risacher, but I’m not buying Givoney’s BSPN click bait. He’s an analytics and talent evaluator guy, not an insider info guy, and he’s already been wrong about the extent of Topic’s injury by listening to his “sources”.

I don't trust anyone until the draft happens, I'm just trying to find some logic in it.
Another scenario that's not that far fetched would be #1 for #4 and '26 Hawks swap returned.
Would effectively mean Spurs traded up in '24 draft to potentially trade down in '26.
Hawks still won't be able to tank since the won't have '25 and '27 picks, so that swap would realistically be moving down from #10 or so pick to mid-late teens.

Would work for Hawks if they want Clingan.

[Mr. Body]

I'm pretty high on furph, so I'd have no problem with that....depending on who we went with on the earlier picks, filipowski, McCain and a couple others would be under consideration too.

Furphy still intrigues me among later guys in the round. If he gets to a good situation, I can see him popping in a few years. Cody Williams and Matas Buzelis were very highly regarded and ranked American high school recruits. Furphy was practically unknown until Kansas heard about him. He wasn't supposed to have any role for the Jayhawks until their own highly touted recruit underperformed.

Furphy. Struggled to fill into lead scoring categories when McCuellar went down. Strictly off-ball at this point, but flashes of more. He wasn't capable of setting others up or getting himself good shots, but I think it's for lack of skill and seasoning, not incapability. He was on fire from deep, then cooled off. His defense is supposedly suspect but I feel it's better than many say. It's also a skill/seasoning thing. Won't project as a stopper, but still okay. What I love is his hustle and motor. Thrives on contact, gets lots of boards that shouldn't be in play. Doesn't mind putting up shots even when missing. A great finisher inside.

He's the anti-Cody in a way, who doesn't rebound (Furph gets twice as many in the same time frames), who only shoots when absolutely open. (Basically, Furphy understands that a shooter needs to put them up to maintain the threat. Not jack crazy ones, of course, but when you get swing-arounds, you can't hesitate.)

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=matas-buzelis--johnny-furphy--cody-williams

Here is Buzelis vs. Williams vs. Furphy

Buzelis to me is more of a PF. His strengths are weak-side shotblocking. Good athlete in open space. Good rebounding stats, but so do most Ignite players (I'd love to see breakdown of Ignite rebounding vs. how they do in the NBA. My guess is it's inflated.)

Williams got huge bumps for his sibling, and was playing very well early in the non-conference. Then everything started cratering. His BPM was twice as high as it is now, thereabouts. He's a lanky, long, fluid athlete who is deliberate (slow) in much of what he does. Furphy is much more of a faster, high-motor guy.

Just interesting how things started an how Buzelis and Williams stuck in the top 10 despite big question marks. Furphy, coming in late, was never going to make it through all of the 20-30 players who were perceived to be better than him even as he hit the draft landscape. I'm unconvinced they are 10-15 slots better in potential than him.

[Mr. Body]

I don't trust anyone until the draft happens, I'm just trying to find some logic in it.
Another scenario that's not that far fetched would be #1 for #4 and '26 Hawks swap returned.
Would effectively mean Spurs traded up in '24 draft to potentially trade down in '26.
Hawks still won't be able to tank since the won't have '25 and '27 picks, so that swap would realistically be moving down from #10 or so pick to mid-late teens.

Would work for Hawks if they want Clingan.

GMs have to account for fan narrative and expectation more than we think, I believe. I can't imagine the Hawks front office surviving a whirlwind of local media and fan questions giving up a first round pick's spot just to get a swap in the future returned.

[Pauleta14]

Yeah Sochan gets one more year to figure out his shot before he becomes a non consideration in long term roster construction. His lack of shooting really cripples the Spurs ability to swing on players of a similar archetype who might develop their jumper and become a star.

That's just our/observers perception.

I'm 100% sure Pop will extend him even with a poor 3pt shooting. He's that much in love

Dude almost cried comparing him to Manu smh

[Uriel]

Actually, starting four is but it'll continue to be handed to Sochan.

:lmao At the notion of Bassey being able to play the four.
2K was putting Bassey at the 4 and Collins at the 5.

[drpill]

I've been wondering a bit about the possibility of drafting a 5 (say Clingan or Edey if one of them is BPA at 8) and moving Collins to the 4. Could this work?

[Uriel]

Another observation from the 2K simulation was that the Dillingham-Branham bench backcourt was a disaster defensively, exacerbated by a lack of size. Topic-Branham made more sense, because then you could have Branham guard the opposing team’s point guard and Topic the opposing team’s shooting guard.

[exstatic]

If the Spurs are truly interest in appeasing Wemby, they’re drafting Salaun, not Risacher. Their families are already close, due to each daughter playing basketball together. He’s also had positive comments about Tidjane. Zacharrie is a guy he knows a bit.

[rjv]

Givoney isn’t the most plugged in guy for rumors.

my modus operandi is not to give it any credence unless i hear it from woj or shams.

[mo7888]

Furphy still intrigues me among later guys in the round. If he gets to a good situation, I can see him popping in a few years. Cody Williams and Matas Buzelis were very highly regarded and ranked American high school recruits. Furphy was practically unknown until Kansas heard about him. He wasn't supposed to have any role for the Jayhawks until their own highly touted recruit underperformed.

Furphy. Struggled to fill into lead scoring categories when McCuellar went down. Strictly off-ball at this point, but flashes of more. He wasn't capable of setting others up or getting himself good shots, but I think it's for lack of skill and seasoning, not incapability. He was on fire from deep, then cooled off. His defense is supposedly suspect but I feel it's better than many say. It's also a skill/seasoning thing. Won't project as a stopper, but still okay. What I love is his hustle and motor. Thrives on contact, gets lots of boards that shouldn't be in play. Doesn't mind putting up shots even when missing. A great finisher inside.

He's the anti-Cody in a way, who doesn't rebound (Furph gets twice as many in the same time frames), who only shoots when absolutely open. (Basically, Furphy understands that a shooter needs to put them up to maintain the threat. Not jack crazy ones, of course, but when you get swing-arounds, you can't hesitate.)

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=matas-buzelis--johnny-furphy--cody-williams

Here is Buzelis vs. Williams vs. Furphy

Buzelis to me is more of a PF. His strengths are weak-side shotblocking. Good athlete in open space. Good rebounding stats, but so do most Ignite players (I'd love to see breakdown of Ignite rebounding vs. how they do in the NBA. My guess is it's inflated.)

Williams got huge bumps for his sibling, and was playing very well early in the non-conference. Then everything started cratering. His BPM was twice as high as it is now, thereabouts. He's a lanky, long, fluid athlete who is deliberate (slow) in much of what he does. Furphy is much more of a faster, high-motor guy.

Just interesting how things started an how Buzelis and Williams stuck in the top 10 despite big question marks. Furphy, coming in late, was never going to make it through all of the 20-30 players who were perceived to be better than him even as he hit the draft landscape. I'm unconvinced they are 10-15 slots better in potential than him.

Furphy is very interesting. He can be a 2 or 3. Buzelis is a 4 all the way in my book. His fit next to Sochan is my only concern there. If his outside shot develops the way I think it will then they be able to share the floor in a year or two. I've been high on Buzelis from almost the beginning. Williams...ehh... I'm not out on him, but depending on what #pick we're talking about I might prefer to go elsewhere.

[spurraider21]

Actually, starting four is but it'll continue to be handed to Sochan.

:lmao At the notion of Bassey being able to play the four.
yeah... they've tried with Barlow but it hasnt been great. bassey isnt remotely close to being a 4

but :lol at you seriously responding to a post about NBA 2k simulations for real world analysis

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, the Spurs need to shed a couple centers and find PFs who can shoot the three.

[Mugen]

yeah... they've tried with Barlow but it hasnt been great. bassey isnt remotely close to being a 4

but :lol at you seriously responding to a post about NBA 2k simulations for real world analysis

To be fair, Uriel is probably the equivalent of the old man in 2k tbh.

[z0sa]

FWIW, I tried simulating the Spurs on 2K by adding a bunch of different prospects (Risacher, Castle, Dillingham, Topic, and Salaun) to the roster. Here are my observations:

1. Risacher is such a good fit on this current roster.
2. The rotations were more sensible when a PG like Dillingham or Topic was on the roster.
3. Castle can start at the 3 between Vassell and Sochan.
4. Backup 4 is a sneaky need for this team right now, unless you believe in Bassey.

I like the analysis. I know it's a bit tongue in cheek, but I actually agree with all of these points except 3. I don't know where Castle will actually fit, since he is demanding to be a PG. He might become a sulky whine-wad if we draft him and make him play position-less.

[Mugen]

I like the analysis. I know it's a bit tongue in cheek, but I actually agree with all of these points except 3. I don't know where Castle will actually fit, since he is demanding to be a PG. He might become a sulky whine-wad if we draft him and make him play position-less.

I just think he doesn't want to be drafted by the Hornets tbh.

[Degoat]

Sam Vecenie did a mock mock draft trade every pick podcast. There mock trades were garbage for the spurs lol he proposed.

#4 and next years ATL pick for #1
or
#4 for Ayo Dosunmu and #11

[widowmaker]

From CBS sports.

Nikola TopicPro comp: Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
The scouting report for SGA as a prospect: crafty, smooth, downright slithery. That's copy+paste what I see when I watch Topic. He doesn't win with burst or athleticism. He wins with smarts and leverage and sees the game at a high level. His passing and feel make him one of the most well-rounded players in this class.

Delusional.

[Ariel]

Sam Vecenie did a mock mock draft trade every pick podcast. There mock trades were garbage for the spurs lol he proposed.

#4 and next years ATL pick for #1
or
#4 for Ayo Dosunmu and #11
Pass on both

[Cardinal]

Topic reportedly has a 6’5.5” wingspan, according to Givony.

Haven’t see the official numbers posted yet but this is presumably from the recent measurements in Treviso

[montgod]

Pass on both

I agree on passing on both of those, but wouldn't be opposed to giving up 8, 35 for Ayo and 11.

[DesignatedT]

Topic reportedly has a 6’5.5” wingspan, according to Givony.

Haven’t see the official numbers posted yet but this is presumably from the recent measurements in Treviso

He's 6'7 with a 6'5 wingspan? Lol that's not good.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Topic reportedly has a 6’5.5” wingspan, according to Givony.

Haven’t see the official numbers posted yet but this is presumably from the recent measurements in Treviso

Givony is wrong more than Ex. The guy looks like a friggin' orangatang. His wingspan is closer to 7 feet than 6'5.5".

[exstatic]

Topic reportedly has a 6’5.5” wingspan, according to Givony.

Haven’t see the official numbers posted yet but this is presumably from the recent measurements in Treviso

Are they ever going to publish those like they did the main combine?

[Mr. Body]

Let's just have the draft now. No sense in prolonging it. I'm ready.

[Pauleta14]

Topic reportedly has a 6’5.5” wingspan, according to Givony.

Haven’t see the official numbers posted yet but this is presumably from the recent measurements in Treviso

It was announced at 7'1 and was one of the main arguments used for him

[SpursDynasty85]

If you've seen any of his pictures or videos you know 7'1" wingspan is outright wrong. 6'5.5" looks pretty accurate give or take 1 or 2".

[Extra Stout]

Topic is injured and less than advertised, Sheppard is not a true PG, Dillingham is too small, Castle is a combo guard who can’t shoot, Carter is a combo guard, McCain is pedestrian, and Collier is a project.

If the Spurs want an NBA-ready point guard out of this draft, it will have to come by trading the picks for one.

[CGD]

Sam Vecenie did a mock mock draft trade every pick podcast. There mock trades were garbage for the spurs lol he proposed.

#4 and next years ATL pick for #1
or
#4 for Ayo Dosunmu and #11

He also clearly reads our board bc he later proposed the Garland trade many of us (or maybe just me?) have been kicking around:

IN: Garland
OUT: 8, 35, Malaki, Garland (and maybe CHI pick to outbid Orlando)

I'm here for that

[CGD]

^ Oops meant Keldon above (not Garland)

[Extra Stout]

I’d love to get Garland that cheap, but it doesn’t seem realistic. I think it would take three #1 picks to get him.

[mo7888]

He also clearly reads our board bc he later proposed the Garland trade many of us (or maybe just me?) have been kicking around:

IN: Garland
OUT: 8, 35, Malaki, Garland (and maybe CHI pick to outbid Orlando)

I'm here for that

It's just darts against a board, but playing it out...

Garland for 8 + 35 + malaki + kj + CHI pick

4 for Ayo +11

Cha pick + two 2nds for 25

Spurs select Knecht or Williams or filipowski + Furphy or da Silva or Klintman

[ace3g]

https://x.com/spurs/status/1798791972209217614

[TD 21]

I think it all depends on how Washington feels about the prospects available at no. 4. They hgave a glut of wings, so If they have a few players on the same tier as Risacher (like, say, Castle or Clingan) I could see them trading back for less than #8 (say future protected first). But there's also a world where they don't move an inch and the Spurs love the fit with Risacher so much they're willing to part with both 4 and 8. I wouldn't go that far for the Spurs, but if that's their choice I don't see how Washington would reject that offer.

Even if they're not enamored with the options at 4, with the Wizards essentially being at ground zero of their re-build, just drafting the same archetype last season in Coulibaly and Risacher's lack of star upside, 4 + another 1st (you can debate which exactly) should be a no brainer.


2K was putting Bassey at the 4 and Collins at the 5.

I actually didn't see this. As I was scrolling, my eye just caught Bassey and four. Anyway, suffice it to say you shouldn't read into that.

[PhantomDashCam]

1798737363897901085

Not sure of Krysten’s track record FWIW

[Pauleta14]

Topic is injured and less than advertised, Sheppard is not a true PG, Dillingham is too small, Castle is a combo guard who can’t shoot, Carter is a combo guard, McCain is pedestrian, and Collier is a project.

If the Spurs want an NBA-ready point guard out of this draft, it will have to come by trading the picks for one.

I don't think they'll force/overpay unless or until they find the right profile or price

I can see them focusing on the other positions and maybe target Nolan Traore? Wait for one of ATL PG's price to fall next season?

Our current floor is so low and we have so many positions to strenghten anyway

[duncan2150]

I'm starting to lean on a dillingham-castle duo ( or dilly-holland). if they are gone i have williams, buzelis and sheppard after them.

[LeBowen]

I'm starting to lean on a dillingham-castle duo ( or dilly-holland). if they are gone i have williams, buzelis and sheppard after them.

If we want rookies that will contribute right away, Castle at #4 and Knecht at #8 are the only options, tbh.
I'd say Castle at #4 and Dillingham at #8 would be my ideal, realistic scenario.

Don't want Holland because he's completely useless in half court sets.
Don't want Buzelis because he's a theoretical player that needs to improve everything to even play in the NBA.
Don't want Sheppard because he's an undersized shooting guard that can't be the primary playmaker or point of attack defender.

[PhantomDashCam]

1798849604680618384

Topic a legit 6’7” + in shoes is pretty cool. Wingspan not so much.

[objective]

I'm starting to lean on a dillingham-castle duo ( or dilly-holland). if they are gone i have williams, buzelis and sheppard after them.

I'll take Holland-Dillingham easy. Holland is very close to being a legit 2-way starting small forward with legit size.

[lefty20]

I'll take Holland-Dillingham easy. Holland is very close to being a legit 2-way starting small forward with legit size.

Idk man, his shot seems really broken. Dude's bursting with that MKG potential, imo.

https://external-preview.redd.it/ron-holland-advanced-3-point-shooting-statistics-and-v0-W4pWBNwx1mGVeTggpxlNDMfyYc6IDYlie1aNJYcTqQw.jpg?au to=webp&1397abfb
https://external-preview.redd.it/ron-holland-advanced-3-point-shooting-statistics-and-v0-W4pWBNwx1mGVeTggpxlNDMfyYc6IDYlie1aNJYcTqQw.jpg?au to=webp&1397abfb

[LeBowen]

Idk man, his shot seems really broken. Dude's bursting with that MKG potential, imo.



It's not just his shot, it's that he's great in transition and not much else.
Handles need work, his playmaking is bad, finishing around the rim is questionable when he can't dunk.
He's just an athlete.

[Mr. Body]

Reddit freaking out over the size of Risacher's hands. Unless his hands are Kawhi Leonard's, they don't freaking matter. A bunch of dweebs. Really think beyond certain ideas, measurements don't matter. It's just a way for people who don't trust their evaluation about basketball to cling to something.

[objective]

Reddit freaking out over the size of Risacher's hands. Unless his hands are Kawhi Leonard's, they don't freaking matter. A bunch of dweebs. Really think beyond certain ideas, measurements don't matter. It's just a way for people who don't trust their evaluation about basketball to cling to something.

Might have started with the Duncd On podcast scouting report episode that spent a lot of time talking about his small hands and resulting missed dunks, sounded as bad as Champagne by the numbers

[objective]

Idk man, his shot seems really broken. Dude's bursting with that MKG potential, imo.

https://external-preview.redd.it/ron-holland-advanced-3-point-shooting-statistics-and-v0-W4pWBNwx1mGVeTggpxlNDMfyYc6IDYlie1aNJYcTqQw.jpg?au to=webp&1397abfb
https://external-preview.redd.it/ron-holland-advanced-3-point-shooting-statistics-and-v0-W4pWBNwx1mGVeTggpxlNDMfyYc6IDYlie1aNJYcTqQw.jpg?au to=webp&1397abfb

Yeah, it's a risk. But he's shown flashes of playmaking, driving, cutting, defensive event creation ... I like him

[ChumpDumper]

1798849604680618384

Topic a legit 6’7” + in shoes is pretty cool. Wingspan not so much.

It'd be great if dude could defend with his neck.

[Degoat]

Any info on Pacome Dadiets measurements? I’m intrigued by him, seems like he should be a lot higher on big boards/Mocks

[PhantomDashCam]

Any info on Pacome Dadiets measurements? I’m intrigued by him, seems like he should be a lot higher on big boards/Mocks

Only seeing height w shoes 6’9” - and weight 217 lbs atm.

[BackHome]

He has potential but probably not enough for first round and more seasoned NBA ready will go before a project in late first or early second.

[sfernald]

Another observation from the 2K simulation was that the Dillingham-Branham bench backcourt was a disaster defensively, exacerbated by a lack of size. Topic-Branham made more sense, because then you could have Branham guard the opposing team’s point guard and Topic the opposing team’s shooting guard.

Branham-Anyone pair is a mistake.

[onechance87]

think i want nikola durisic,Think he can be steal of the draft.

[sfernald]

think i want nikola durisic,Think he can be steal of the draft.

At #35 sure!

[spurraider21]

Risacher 6’8.5” without shoes

wingspan is 6’9.5

standing reach is 8’11

195 pounds

slight build but very good length for a 3. Barely a positive wingspan but considering he’s talk to begin with not a bad number anyway

[z0sa]

Risacher 6’8.5” without shoes

wingspan is 6’9.5

standing reach is 8’11

195 pounds

Man, you just can't teach that kind of size and fluidity combination (fluidity when finishing). I wish we could snag this guy, but he gone before #4. Trading up would make a lot of sense.

[z0sa]

wrong thread

[CGD]

Man, you just can't teach that kind of size and fluidity combination (fluidity when finishing). I wish we could snag this guy, but he gone before #4. Trading up would make a lot of sense.

Makes a ton of sense to trade up, but only if they’re planning to trade for one of the big PGs.

Garland, Vassell, Risacher, Sochan, Wemby would be awesome

Otherwise stay the course. Try to figure out how to come away with one of these pairings:

Castle + Shepard
Castle + Matas
Matas + Shepard

[spurraider21]

Man, you just can't teach that kind of size and fluidity combination (fluidity when finishing). I wish we could snag this guy, but he gone before #4. Trading up would make a lot of sense.
It’s definitely not a great wingspan. It’s fine. But the height helps in that dept hence the standing reach

[Ariel]

Risacher 6’8.5” without shoes

wingspan is 6’9.5

standing reach is 8’11

195 pounds

slight build but very good length for a 3. Barely a positive wingspan but considering he’s talk to begin with not a bad number anyway
Almost identical measures to Matas Buzelis:
height without shoes: 6'8.75"
wingspan: 6'10"
weight: 197 lb
standing reach: 8'9.50"
hand length / width: 8.50" / 9.25"

[Ariel]

With 3 weeks left, I'm still going with Risacher/Castle/Buzelis at 4 and Dillingham/Sheppard at 8.

[ismael-robert]

How did matas have more height n wingspan but lose standing reach?

[heyheymymy]

One, if Wembanyama is starting to call the shots to play with his buddies, we have problems. This never ends well.

LeGM becomes... Le GM

[heyheymymy]

FWIW, I tried simulating the Spurs on 2K by adding a bunch of different prospects (Risacher, Castle, Dillingham, Topic, and Salaun) to the roster. Here are my observations:

1. Risacher is such a good fit on this current roster.
2. The rotations were more sensible when a PG like Dillingham or Topic was on the roster.
3. Castle can start at the 3 between Vassell and Sochan.
4. Backup 4 is a sneaky need for this team right now, unless you believe in Bassey.

Just did the same thing and agree how 2k can be pretty insightful tbh. Just won Summer League with Castle + Dillingham and man what a fun duo.

Also agree at the surprise realization that the 4 PF is basically barren. Especially if you play Sochan down at SF. Barlow, Mamu, Osman, you name it and out of position as they may be, nothing is good enough and the positional depth is super weak.

Then you look back at the 2024 draft differently, okay is there anyone who could play some PF? You see not much there really except Salaun (Matas, Tyler Smith, De Silva? I looked), and these are not ideal at all and many probably flat won't work. Then you go to the FAs, Maybe Jalen Smith opts out of his $5.4? He's more of a C/PF and not good enough of a player. Maybe Precious Achiuwa? Not good enough of a player, too much of a project still, can't hit FTs lol. Looked at Cs like Jaxson Hayes and Bol Bol, lol awful options, no way. But these are what you have to choose from unless you do a trade.

Then I looked at 2025 draft, lol. Getting desperate now. Not really any true PFs that catch my eye immediately. Maybe the French player, Noa Essegue? Too far off to say but perhaps an option. Who will play PF in SA? Been trying to solve this shit since small ball Keldon Johnson and Sochan helps but anyway you see the sudden sneaky need OOP is talking about for at least a backup 4, and jokingly as another member posted, maybe a starter caliber PF too lol.

But looking at 2025, the guards are really brilliant. Traore at PG, Demin at PG, Tre Johnson at SG. When I ran that Castle Dilly it was almost too many PGs plus regular season you add Tre Jones(off books 2025). I love the Castle Dilly pairing and fuck it, that is the best, most realistic pair you get with 4 + 8 barring changes. Tempted to just do that although I'm starting to get buyers remorse on Dilly after that sim. When he's good, he took over for stretches. With Castle on court too, the duo DESTROYED teams, it was beautiful to see. Almost would say don't get Dilly if you can't get Castle too lol they seem very complimentary at least in projection simulations.

But when Dilly was bad, he was really bad. Castle gave you something pretty much every game, even when the shot wasn't falling but Dilly got exposed. And that's with the game juicing up Dilly way better than he'll be in real life (78 which he may be but I'd put him more at 76). Makes me think Dilly is kinda gimmicky but you'll have your Kyrie's and your Brunson's that hit so it's going to hurt if Dilly meets his ceiling if SA passes. I'll also say I bet Dilly does better on other certain teams than he'd do in SA. Like Spurs will pass, Dilly goes to DET (yes even with Cade, look again, it's a better fit than you'd think) or CHI or hell even UTH and he looks great but it's because the system allows him stuff Spurs system would try to change, affect, adjust or get him trying stuff outside his comfort zone. So there'll be a fallacy that SA slept and let gold slip when that may not be the case.

So then I reenvision the whole roster build. Back to targeting two forwards in 2024? Trade up down or out? Go all in on Traore 2025 for the French duo Traore/Wemby?

Target Risacher and bundle 4 + 8 but do it without trading any of the 2025 FRPs and then bundle every last pick you have for Traore next year and have the French big 3 Traore/Risacher/Wemby locked in. Would take a miracle lol but I hope SA has a plan. What happens if you get to 4 and Sarr, Risacher, Castle are gone and there's nothing left but shrimps and wimps? Even if you can just pull Castle at 4 would be huge at this point.

Sorry for the long shitpost thoughts hoping someone can follow all that just a blob I'm brain storming and kinda stuck on. Sorry for posting 2k sims as real life insight cliche too I know that's kinda sacrilege lol

[Vienna]

regarding PF I thought that DaRon Holmes would be a very insteresting prospect.
but now he has canceled all his work outs, so it's given that he has a 1st round promise. (rumor say it's the Nuggets), so no chance he will be there at #35.
Spurs might hope that one out of the group of Klintman, das Silva, Filipowski, Tyler Smith falls to #35, I think there is a small chance this happens.
on the other hand, the #35 pick might be better used on a shooter, say Antonio Reeves, or Scheierman, or Sandford.

[Ignazzz]

PF. Well. Markennen only way

[heyheymymy]

Also curious who gave the DaRon Holmes II first round promise, myself.

DEN jumps out because they just got exposed on Gordon's inability to shoot from range with defenders sagging off just daring him to shoot. Holmes is the logical fix around that range.

Could also be NYK to shore up Randle. I wonder if NOLA wants to shore up Zion in the same way. So the De Silva, Tyler Smith, Klintman types may be getting snacked up in that late first range.

And I am secure on AJ Johnson with #35. Wonder if he'd go back to NBL on a stash but he could spend the year in Austin too and then backfill Tre Jones departure next year and serve as Wesley insurance.

[Vienna]

Also curious who gave the DaRon Holmes II first round promise, myself.

DEN jumps out because they just got exposed on Gordon's inability to shoot from range with defenders sagging off just daring him to shoot. Holmes is the logical fix around that range.

Could also be NYK to shore up Randle. I wonder if NOLA wants to shore up Zion in the same way. So the De Silva, Tyler Smith, Klintman types may be getting snacked up in that late first range.

And I am secure on AJ Johnson with #35. Wonder if he'd go back to NBL on a stash but he could spend the year in Austin too and then backfill Tre Jones departure next year and serve as Wesley insurance.

in the big picture we should expect that both 2nd round picks might be stashed. (or traded). the roster is filled up anyway and there are some more 1st rounders coming in 2025. not that I wish they go that route, but I wouldn't be surprised and the reasons are obvious.

there will be enough raw talent to place a bet on and watch them develop for two or three years. like Johnson, Dadiet, Djurisic, Ajinca, Chomche, Flowers.

[heyheymymy]

Kinda hope they pick #35 this time as I like the chances of some dream fallers but you are correct the pattern has been to trade out from this similar range early second round now as a recent trend and they probably should with such a full roster.

Like you were saying some interesting names to see who falls to #35 and wonder if SA has any targets they'd actually select if they tumbled far enough. Maybe Dunn and as you mentioned Da Silva though I think he goes mid first tbh. Love his player template though and would be a decent answer to the PF question as I think he can play up some from SF at 6'9.5 and a good shooter. Da Silva and KJ Simpson were doing most of the work while Cody Williams soaked all the acclaim, pretty crazy Williams gets mocked so highly; must be the name thing.

[CGD]

How did matas have more height n wingspan but lose standing reach?

Same way Reed Shepard had the best vertical…

[JPB]

Spurs rarely lock-in on a player like that, this wouldn’t likely be a draft where they would, and I’m not sure Risacher is any better than Salaun or Cody Williams. I’ll grant your possible scenario where they really want Risacher, but I’m not buying Givoney’s BSPN click bait. He’s an analytics and talent evaluator guy, not an insider info guy, and he’s already been wrong about the extent of Topic’s injury by listening to his “sources”.

I do'nt know why you guy keep comparing Risacher and Salaun. Zach is clearly more refined, natural and talented with a better court vision and BBIQ than Salaun who mostly relies and his motor and hustling.

[JPB]

If the Spurs are truly interest in appeasing Wemby, they’re drafting Salaun, not Risacher. Their families are already close, due to each daughter playing basketball together. He’s also had positive comments about Tidjane. Zacharrie is a guy he knows a bit.

Yeah, their famileis know each others and he spent a bit of time with him, lifting weight and stuff, but they're not close friends.

Then Wemby on Risacher:

"I probably don't know anyone more talented than him in this draft. He can do about anything. In Europe, few players can go from youth to pro programs, he did it and he's dominating. I'm proud of him".

I realy don't believe Wemby's familiarity with french guys in this draft is a factor at all. He not close with them like with Bilal for example.

[mystargtr34]

There’s heaps of variables with height vs wingspan vs standing reach. Some guys like Topic who have long necks and big heads are going to have shorter relative standing reaches compared to alien looking guys with high shoulders, short necks and small heads.

Risacher has a shortish wingspan because he has really narrow shoulders and only slightly above average length arms. But he has high shoulders and a short neck and small head so his standing reach is relatively high.

[Vienna]

I think the play offs showed kind of a come back of defense and last nights game wasn't an exception.
the C's are dominating without an outstanding performance on offense, because they have no weak link on defense.
that's why I don't share the oppinion you can afford to play with a liability on defense because you have a plus defender in Wemby behind him.
the moment you start sending double teams to help out your weak link is the moment the defense cracks.
the C's don't need to worry about this, beacause they have 5 players out there, who can handle the job on defense.

[LeBowen]

I think the play offs showed kind of a come back of defense and last nights game wasn't an exception.
the C's are dominating without an outstanding performance on offense, because they have no weak link on defense.
that's why I don't share the oppinion you can afford to play with a liability on defense because you have a plus defender in Wemby behind him.
the moment you start sending double teams to help out your weak link is the moment the defense cracks.
the C's don't need to worry about this, beacause they have 5 players out there, who can handle the job on defense.

Wolves had 5 players who can handle the job on defense.
Celtics have 5 players that can defend multiple positions, are good rebounders for their size, are at least above average from deep and can put the ball on ther floor.
Their offense works not only because everyone can shoot, but because everyone can initiate the offense, run PNR and attack the basket.

It's exactly the kind of roster Spurs need around Wemby.
Forget twin towers, forget 10apg heliocentric playmakers or second options that can score 30 on regular basis.
Just get one all-star and a bunch of elite role players and we're good to go because Wemby will unquestionably be the best player in the league in no time.

[BatManu20]

1798745620255293639

[BatManu20]

1799063608204419475

[BatManu20]

1799081517987360773

[BatManu20]

1799084202870337869

[exstatic]

1799084202870337869

His shot is really bad. Not quite MKG level, but bad. If he had good fundamentals to fall back on, that would be one thing, but what I’m seeing is an athlete, not a high level basketball player. He needs too many things to click to even be good, like a starter.

[Mr. Body]

Kind of crazy that in a supposedly weak draft Holland can't be guaranteed to stick in the top 10 or even 14.

[LeBowen]

His shot is really bad. Not quite MKG level, but bad. If he had good fundamentals to fall back on, that would be one thing, but what I’m seeing is an athlete, not a high level basketball player. He needs too many things to click to even be good, like a starter.

It's not just his shot, it's everything.
The other day I read that 15% of his points were in transition, led the G-league.
No prospect that made it ever had more than 10-12%.
His finishing at the rim when there's someone trying to contest the layup is poor.
His decision making is awful and his shot is obviously non-existant.
Even on defense, his stance looks way too stiff and most of his good plays are just timely steals.

Supreme athlete that offers nothing else.
Textbook case of everything that's wrong with US development system.
Noone taught him actual basketball skills because he didn't need them while dunking on inferiror competition in high school.

[Uriel]

What do people think about Matas Buzelis? If we’re in the hunt for a starting SF and Risacher is out of reach, why not him?

[Mr. Body]

It's not just his shot, it's everything.
The other day I read that 15% of his points were in transition, led the G-league.
No prospect that made it ever had more than 10-12%.
His finishing at the rim when there's someone trying to contest the layup is poor.
His decision making is awful and his shot is obviously non-existant.
Even on defense, his stance looks way too stiff and most of his good plays are just timely steals.

Supreme athlete that offers nothing else.
Textbook case of everything that's wrong with US development system.
Noone taught him actual basketball skills because he didn't need them while dunking on inferiror competition in high school.

He was put in a bad spot, too, by the crapshow that was Ignite, by being forced to be their main ball-handler and initiator. That said, he's the template you often see picked in the top ten and I still expect to see him there.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/DraftExpress/status/1799068323453579666

[tbdog]

What do people think about Matas Buzelis? If we’re in the hunt for a starting SF and Risacher is out of reach, why not him?

The rumor is his motor or drive isn't there. Spurs usually favour attitude. But who knows.

[rjv]

It's not just his shot, it's everything.
The other day I read that 15% of his points were in transition, led the G-league.
No prospect that made it ever had more than 10-12%.
His finishing at the rim when there's someone trying to contest the layup is poor.
His decision making is awful and his shot is obviously non-existant.
Even on defense, his stance looks way too stiff and most of his good plays are just timely steals.

Supreme athlete that offers nothing else.
Textbook case of everything that's wrong with US development system.
Noone taught him actual basketball skills because he didn't need them while dunking on inferiror competition in high school.

i wouldn't even call it a development system, with the exception of some college programs. it's a side show.

[r0drig0lac]

What do people think about Matas Buzelis? If we’re in the hunt for a starting SF and Risacher is out of reach, why not him?

my preference since the start is Sarr/Zach/Matas

[ace3g]

https://x.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1799079433942552658

[Ariel]

The rumor is his motor or drive isn't there. Spurs usually favour attitude. But who knows.
I kind of sense the same in his interviews, he talks about how he didn't watch basketball growing up, and looks almost too relaxed. That kind of put me off a bit. There are a lot of things I like about Buzelis, especially that combination of skills and fluidity to go along with size, but if he isn't perceived as a strong competitor then that takes a lot of the appeal for me. Starting to give me some Keith Van Horn vibes.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/NBADraftWass/status/1799096891940221276

[Mr. Body]

I kind of sense the same in his interviews, he talks about how he didn't watch basketball growing up, and looks almost too relaxed. That kind of put me off a bit. There are a lot of things I like about Buzelis, especially that combination of skills and fluidity to go along with size, but if he isn't perceived as a strong competitor then that takes a lot of the appeal for me. Starting to give me some Keith Van Horn vibes.

The story Buzelis tells is that he wasn't big into basketball, maybe because that's what his parents did, but says he fell in love with it. I don't think interest in basketball is an issue there. Stuff like challenging Risacher one-on-one is weird and slightly off-putting, but I chalk that up to just being young and stuff.

[Extra Stout]

https://x.com/NBADraftWass/status/1799096891940221276
Buzelis and Carter are very gettable at 4 and 8.

[spurraider21]

What do people think about Matas Buzelis? If we’re in the hunt for a starting SF and Risacher is out of reach, why not him?
He’s not a SF

[Extra Stout]

Some have said Buzelis interviews really well, but to me he comes across as kind of a dork. But then again so does Sochan.

[BackHome]

Yeah I don’t like Mantas he will have to play PF in the NBA and he hates contact which is not something I want from my starting PF. Also, to many times he would disappear in games on offense and defense there were more then one game where his teammate Tyler Smith clearly outplayed him.

[Mr. Body]

Again, I'd gladly take The Furph ten times over Buzelis. Actually can shoot, actually has a ft% above .700. Doesn't shy from contact. In fact, the opposite. Aussies body check their mamas rather than give them hugs goodnight. Only thing Buzelis does better is that weakside shotblocking. That's it.

[mo7888]

1799084202870337869

Not surprising..

[spurraider21]

Again, I'd gladly take The Furph ten times over Buzelis. Actually can shoot, actually has a ft% above .700. Doesn't shy from contact. In fact, the opposite. Aussies body check their mamas rather than give them hugs goodnight. Only thing Buzelis does better is that weakside shotblocking. That's it.
this is laughable imo

im not even a buzelis fan, but he can create his shot by putting the ball on the floor, he has better footwork inside, is a better passer. furphy's desired outcome is something like corey brewer with a 3 point shot. which isnt bad, whereas matas' aspiration is probably something like lamar odom (albeit not as good a rebounder) or franz wagner.

furphy seems more like a floor raiser while buzelis aspires to be a ceiling raiser