2024 NBA Draft Thread

[The Truth #6]

But back to divisive draft thoughts. I'm still intrigued by Isiah Collier with the Toronto pick if we can't get Dillingham with our own pick.

Interesting breakdown on No Ceilings: https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/isaiah-collier-is-the-trojans-horse

To be clear, I'm not advocating for him in a vacuum. I'm trying to find any players with star potential in this lackluster draft that is much better for role players. We need a star player. We need a point guard. So I think it's silly to discount Collier completely. His shooting is the main problem in my opinion. Since return from his hand injury, his assist to turn over ratio is 1.64 it turns out, which is not apocalyptic. His poor free throw shooting is definitely a concern. But he's great in the open court, he's great at lob passes, he's s great at getting to the rim at will and finishing, and he actually has pretty good vision most of the time. So there's enough there to take a look.

[Pauleta14]

But back to divisive draft thoughts. I'm still intrigued by Isiah Collier with the Toronto pick if we can't get Dillingham with our own pick.

Interesting breakdown on No Ceilings: https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/isaiah-collier-is-the-trojans-horse

To be clear, I'm not advocating for him in a vacuum. I'm trying to find any players with star potential in this lackluster draft that is much better for role players. We need a star player. We need a point guard. So I think it's silly to discount Collier completely. His shooting is the main problem in my opinion. Since return from his hand injury, his assist to turn over ratio is 1.64 it turns out, which is not apocalyptic. His poor free throw shooting is definitely a concern. But he's great in the open court, he's great at lob passes, he's s great at getting to the rim at will and finishing, and he actually has pretty good vision most of the time. So there's enough there to take a look.

Been following the comments on Twitter (I know not the only/best ref) and it was mostly negative. A lot think he should stay a 2nd year but will probably get drafted bc of hype and potential

He’s very very raw and hard to project

There are no star potential on this draft, those are for the 25’

[exstatic]

But back to divisive draft thoughts. I'm still intrigued by Isiah Collier with the Toronto pick if we can't get Dillingham with our own pick.

Interesting breakdown on No Ceilings: https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/isaiah-collier-is-the-trojans-horse

To be clear, I'm not advocating for him in a vacuum. I'm trying to find any players with star potential in this lackluster draft that is much better for role players. We need a star player. We need a point guard. So I think it's silly to discount Collier completely. His shooting is the main problem in my opinion. Since return from his hand injury, his assist to turn over ratio is 1.64 it turns out, which is not apocalyptic. His poor free throw shooting is definitely a concern. But he's great in the open court, he's great at lob passes, he's s great at getting to the rim at will and finishing, and he actually has pretty good vision most of the time. So there's enough there to take a look.

If he were 6’6”, I’d be on board for the experiment , but if you want a star, he ain’t it. The path for 6’3” non shooting poor passing guards to stardom is non existent. BTW, 1.64 asst/TO is fucking awful for a supposed PG.

[Ariel]

If he were 6’6”, I’d be on board for the experiment , but if you want a star, he ain’t it. The path for 6’3” non shooting poor passing guards to stardom is non existent. BTW, 1.64 asst/TO is fucking awful for a supposed PG.
My main beef with Collier is that PGs take longer to develop, and he's probably even farther away than most, and handing him the keys so that he can experiment his rookie year could get ugly and hurt the rest of the team. In a different context he would be a more palatable option for me... perhaps if the Spurs add a more established vet along the lines of Brogdon, and trade back to pick up Knecht and Collier, then it wouldn't be so bad.

[LeBowen]

We got Collier at home and his name is Blake Wesley.

[rascal]

I had Cam #4 ahead of the Thompson twins...

I remember you as one of the few who liked Cam.

[The Truth #6]

I hear the concerns from everyone and don't necessarily disagree. So, then, who is your choice for a star in this draft?

[Ariel]

Höw about Devin Carter from Providence? bulky, 2-way 6'3" PG, has been having a very productive year, shooting over 47% from the field and almost 38% from 3 on high volume (6.7 3PA), excellent rebounding numbers for a guard, plays his ass off on defense, Hadn't really paid much attention to him early on, but he seems to be rising on mocks, anyone watched him regularly?

[Ariel]

I hear the concerns from everyone and don't necessarily disagree. So, then, who is your choice for a star in this draft?
Where the Spurs are projected to draft, I have Dillingham and Buzelis ahead of Collier. If the Spurs were drafting on the back end of the lottery, Collier could be the boom/bust guy there.

[Mr. Body]

From what I've seen...

Strengths: Very fast and strong, aggressive with drives, draws a lot of fouls. Good handles, gets generally anywhere he wants on the court. Can make good passes and cause trouble with his attacks. No-self-doubt type player.

Weaknesses: Wildly off on many basic passes, possibly due to just going too fast, but also lacks touch on shot. Rim misses are very unkind. Poor free throw shooter. Inattentive, low-energy defender. I question his actual feel for game and game management, whether he can manipulate defenses at multiple stages of the game and set up teammates, or if he's one-speed only.

Outlook: Has the tools for star upside, but question marks all around. Can he slow down and process the court in multiple ways? Can he be engaged on defense? Will he get the bulldozing calls at the next level? Can he place his passes and produce a softer touch on his shot?

[The Truth #6]

Where the Spurs are projected to draft, I have Dillingham and Buzelis ahead of Collier. If the Spurs were drafting on the back end of the lottery, Collier could be the boom/bust guy there.

I can see that. As I stated, but got lost in shuffle, is that I prefer Dillingham with our pick and if he's gone I'd probably have to accept Buzelis. With the Toronto pick, if we didn't get a PG with our pick, and Topic is gone, I can see the case for Collier. Or Knecht.

[Ariel]

I can see that. As I stated, but got lost in shuffle, is that I prefer Dillingham with our pick and if he's gone I'd probably have to accept Buzelis. With the Toronto pick, if we didn't get a PG with our pick, and Topic is gone, I can see the case for Collier. Or Knecht.
Yeah, there's a lot of ways it can go, depending on how the lottery goes, what's available where the Spurs pick... if things shape up like you mention, that could be a reasonable outcome, not far from where I stand.

[SpursBills]

Höw about Devin Carter from Providence? bulky, 2-way 6'3" PG, has been having a very productive year, shooting over 47% from the field and almost 38% from 3 on high volume (6.7 3PA), excellent rebounding numbers for a guard, plays his ass off on defense, Hadn't really paid much attention to him early on, but he seems to be rising on mocks, anyone watched him regularly?

Love this guy. He’ll be somewhere between Gary Payton II and Josh Hart if you want a feel for his play style, strengths, and weaknesses. Screams Heat/knicks/grizzlies type player.

[exstatic]

I hear the concerns from everyone and don't necessarily disagree. So, then, who is your choice for a star in this draft?

I’m sticking with Topic. He’s been at the top of most mocks since the start,not even his injury has affected his status.

People have it exactly backwards with him. They say he won’t be able to operate in the paint like he does in Europe, but the spacing is SO much better here. Don’t believe me, believe Luka Doncic when he says so. His paint work should translate seamlessly. He needs to improve his 3 point shot, but his shooting signal is strong with that 88% FT%. He’s got gd size and vision for a PG.

[Mr. Body]

I feel like Devin Cart will get into the lottery. If he doesn't some team will get a bargain.

[LeBowen]

I’m sticking with Topic. He’s been at the top of most mocks since the start,not even his injury has affected his status.

People have it exactly backwards with him. They say he won’t be able to operate in the paint like he does in Europe, but the spacing is SO much better here. Don’t believe me, believe Luka Doncic when he says so. His paint work should translate seamlessly. He needs to improve his 3 point shot, but his shooting signal is strong with that 88% FT%. He’s got gd size and vision for a PG.

Or maybe we should ask Killian Hayes?
Or all the European guards drafted in the past 15 years.
Only two of them made it, Rubio and Doncic. Two most hyped European point guard prospects ever.
The only other good European guard in that timeframe is Bogdanovic, but he came over at 25.

I'm not saying that Topic is a guaranteed bust, but making predictions just because an MVP level player said something is ridiculous.

Using a top5 pick to draft a point guard who's shot is questionable and who's also a horrible defender is a massive risk and if it backfires, we wasted a pick.
Topic will either be a great player or out of the league after his rookie deal.

PATFO should go for it if they think he'll reach elite point guard projections, but I can't stand the overconfidence of some posters just because Topic almost shares the nationality with Doncic.
Would anyone be hoping we draft a domestic PG if he was a questionable shooter and a horrible defender? Obviously not.

[JPB]

I’m sticking with Topic. He’s been at the top of most mocks since the start,not even his injury has affected his status.

People have it exactly backwards with him. They say he won’t be able to operate in the paint like he does in Europe, but the spacing is SO much better here. Don’t believe me, believe Luka Doncic when he says so. His paint work should translate seamlessly. He needs to improve his 3 point shot, but his shooting signal is strong with that 88% FT%. He’s got gd size and vision for a PG.

Givony has him at #4 in his last one, with Dillingham at #3 (previously #7). As expected, murican players will keep on rising. I can see Sheppard, Buzelis or othesr passing Topic soon.

Other mock drafts just copy big dog ones.

[JPB]

Another thing on Topic is that he has little games (specially of interest) left to play till the draft, and barely a few in Euroleague, where he's underperfomed and won't have that much opportunity to show more, specially coming back from injury.

Meaning GMs will mainly have to make their opnion on his fall/summer ABA league games (cough), combine and workouts. Will he be back to 100% then? Seems like he rushed a bit his return. Meanwhile March madness will start and it will all about College guys.

[spurraider21]

Samanic had promise. His attitude was awful.

Buzelis apparently is basketball obsessed and wants to succeed. The shooting is a major concern. As far as comparison, he seems taller and longer than Samanic, maybe, and shiftier with the ball in his hands, more guard like. That said, I'm still not sure he's much of a playmaker for others.
a buzelis comp i came across that actually, kind of depressingly, feels apt is Brandon Ingram but without a good jumper (yet). perhaps with some more defensive gusto, albeit with a notably shorter wingspan

[exstatic]

Or maybe we should ask Killian Hayes?
Or all the European guards drafted in the past 15 years.
Only two of them made it, Rubio and Doncic. Two most hyped European point guard prospects ever.
The only other good European guard in that timeframe is Bogdanovic, but he came over at 25.

I'm not saying that Topic is a guaranteed bust, but making predictions just because an MVP level player said something is ridiculous.

Using a top5 pick to draft a point guard who's shot is questionable and who's also a horrible defender is a massive risk and if it backfires, we wasted a pick.
Topic will either be a great player or out of the league after his rookie deal.

PATFO should go for it if they think he'll reach elite point guard projections, but I can't stand the overconfidence of some posters just because Topic almost shares the nationality with Doncic.
Would anyone be hoping we draft a domestic PG if he was a questionable shooter and a horrible defender? Obviously not.

That MVP made the comment that is directly tied to an important skill set that Topic possesses, mastery inside of the paint. I don’t like him because he’s European, I like him because he’s Nikola Topic, and possesses a wide and varied skill set at a young age.

[exstatic]

Another thing on Topic is that he has little games (specially of interest) left to play till the draft, and barely a few in Euroleague, where he's underperfomed and won't have that much opportunity to show more, specially coming back from injury.

Meaning GMs will mainly have to make their opnion on his fall/summer ABA league games (cough), combine and workouts. Will he be back to 100% then? Seems like he rushed a bit his return. Meanwhile March madness will start and it will all about College guys.

Or, you could judge him on his FIBA U18, where he just killed it. Or, you could judge him by his 17 YO season.


Last year he posted 21.3 PER in 575 mins in Serbia’s KLS, which is a weaker pro league than the Adriatic. For perspective, Vasilije Micic posted 12.9 PER in KLS while being 7 months older than Topic. Bogdan Bogdanovic had an 18.2 PER in KLS while being 2 full years older than Topic, and a 19.2 PER while being 3 full years older.

Bogdanovic was a bit of a late bloomer, but the difference between ages 17 and 20 is gargantuan. For Topic to be that productive that young is incredibly rare. The only international prospect to be notably more productive at age 17 in recent memory was Luka Doncic.

Even Nikola Jokic only played an unproductive 42 KLS minutes when he was 6 months older than KLS Topic with a meager 3.5 PER. Most of his minutes that year came in the u18 league before breaking out the following season when he was draft eligible.

This past summer Topic led Serbia u18 team to the Euro championship, going 7-0 with all wins by double digits as he averaged 15.3 pts, 3.7 rebs, 5.1 asts, 3.1 tovs, and 2.0 steals, with his best performance coming against Spain in the championship game. He was the clear best player on the clear best team.

At every step he appeared to be a serious prospect entering the season, and now he is getting even more serious with his early Adriatic start. It is dangerous to overreact to 3 game samples, but the prior performances make Topic more likely to be real.

I’m not getting talked out of one more of these 18 YO prodigies. I’m just not. I was on Sengün until I wasn’t, and I’m not making that mistake again.

No, he probably won’t be Doncic, but what would 85-90% of Doncic look like next to Wemby? I’d like to find that out.

[LeBowen]

That MVP made the comment that is directly tied to an important skill set that Topic possesses, mastery inside of the paint. I don’t like him because he’s European, I like him because he’s Nikola Topic, and possesses a wide and varied skill set at a young age.

Important skill at what level?
Doncic was dominating Euroleague at his age, Topic's only relevant games were in ABA league that's considerably weaker.

Getting into the paint in those two leagues is very different.

[JPB]

Or, you could judge him on his FIBA U18, where he just killed it. Or, you could judge him by his 17 YO season.



I’m not getting talked out of one more of these 18 YO prodigies. I’m just not. I was on Sengün until I wasn’t, and I’m not making that mistake again.

No, he probably won’t be Doncic, but what would 85-90% of Doncic look like next to Wemby? I’d like to find that out.

Topic is nowhere close to the player Luka is. Not even half the talent, let's not make that mistake. He could be an MVP in Europe but be too limited for the NBA.

Using a high pick on an unathletic, non shooting, non defending euro PG in today's NBA is super risky. As mentioned, no one would back that up for a College player.

Offenses will target him and defenses will pack the paint in picknolls, making things harder for Wemby, not easier like a shooting PG would. Not like he was Magic either out there regarding passing. And I have yet to actually see some real pnr and lob game with a real dominant big from him. His main skill, in the ABA league and U18 anyway, and most of the footage we got from him is penetrating vs. no name stiffs.

By the way, his 3PT% during that U18 Euro: 9.5% (2/21). He just can't shoot AT ALL, and that's behind the closer euro line. Might improve a tad, but de we want a non 3pt threat playing with Wemby, assuming he can? What is the guy worth agaisnt NBA bigs? I bet they're gonna send Golgoths at him to test him during his pre-draft workouts.

[baseline bum]

It comes from the Mexican revolution originally, it’s a french saying to describe an hierarchical organisation with way too many bosses and globally disorganised bc of it.

PS/ I'm surprised tbh with all the STers originating from Mexico I thought it'd be a popular expression

The American equivalent of that is too many chiefs, not enough Indians where Indian means Native American, not guy from India.

[scott]

I've been out on Topic for awhile, personally, but I'm really looking forward to seeing how it pans out. When I watch his highlight videos, I don't see some virtuoso in the paint, I just see a guy making layups against dudes who could never cut it in the NBA.

[exstatic]

Important skill at what level?
Doncic was dominating Euroleague at his age, Topic's only relevant games were in ABA league that's considerably weaker.

Getting into the paint in those two leagues is very different.

Right. Getting there in the NBA is easier. Better spacing.

[baseline bum]

I’m sticking with Topic. He’s been at the top of most mocks since the start,not even his injury has affected his status.

People have it exactly backwards with him. They say he won’t be able to operate in the paint like he does in Europe, but the spacing is SO much better here. Don’t believe me, believe Luka Doncic when he says so. His paint work should translate seamlessly. He needs to improve his 3 point shot, but his shooting signal is strong with that 88% FT%. He’s got gd size and vision for a PG.

Him pulling a Wiseman is concerning as hell, especially after looking trash in Euroleague.

[LeBowen]

Right. Getting there in the NBA is easier. Better spacing.

I was referring to Euroleague and ABA, smartass.
Just checked the standings, Topic's team is 19-3 in ABA league and 10-19 in Euroleague.
Don't really follow either one these days, but as far as I can recall, Euroleague teams use ABA as somewhat of a development league.
Players that don't get many minutes in Euroleague rotation usually play more in ABA.

[baseline bum]

But back to divisive draft thoughts. I'm still intrigued by Isiah Collier with the Toronto pick if we can't get Dillingham with our own pick.

Interesting breakdown on No Ceilings: https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/isaiah-collier-is-the-trojans-horse

To be clear, I'm not advocating for him in a vacuum. I'm trying to find any players with star potential in this lackluster draft that is much better for role players. We need a star player. We need a point guard. So I think it's silly to discount Collier completely. His shooting is the main problem in my opinion. Since return from his hand injury, his assist to turn over ratio is 1.64 it turns out, which is not apocalyptic. His poor free throw shooting is definitely a concern. But he's great in the open court, he's great at lob passes, he's s great at getting to the rim at will and finishing, and he actually has pretty good vision most of the time. So there's enough there to take a look.

If I'm swinging for the fences with the Toronto pick I strongly prefer Castle to Collier. Collier only shoots a couple points better from the three but Castle is better in almost every other way.

[Pauleta14]

Right. Getting there in the NBA is easier. Better spacing.

Unless you can’t shoot. Then you become easy to guard and help opp pack the paint

[The Truth #6]

If I'm swinging for the fences with the Toronto pick I strongly prefer Castle to Collier. Collier only shoots a couple points better from the three but Castle is better in almost every other way.

I'm not opposed to Dillingham and Castle with our potential two picks. I feel like Collier has a higher ceiling but more bust for sure compared to Castle. Castle definitely seems safer.

[spurraider21]

my problem with castle is i just dont know what he is. i think you're hoping he becomes an all around player like iguodala/butler. he doesnt quite look like a lead guard, lacks the jumper to be a traditional 2, lacks ideal length to be a 3, so there's just some questions about how he exactly fits in the nba

[mo7888]

Right. Getting there in the NBA is easier. Better spacing.

Yup... Give me Risacher, Topic, or Buzelis with the spurs pick depending on who's available

[JPB]

Right. Getting there in the NBA is easier. Better spacing.

No it's not. Doncic was referring to the Euroleague (where Topic had two underwhelming games) not ABA. Come on, no one can say it's easier to drive in the NBA wiht freakish athlets waiting to block the Hell out of you than in the godam ABA. And it's one thing to get to the basket, it's another to finish in the NBA. Watch those HL of Topic driving in the ABA, there's litterally no one to cover, help or protect the rim once he gets past his guy. he's just laying it up, like a grandpa in a senior game.

[Bruno]

Topic hurt his knee on January 4 and was supposed to be out 4 to 6 weeks. We're now 10 weeks after January 4 and he still hasn't played...

Hoosphype has published his latest aggregate mock draft. I don't find the average draft order that interesting but they have quotes from NBA people on various players:
https://hoopshype.com/lists/2024-aggregate-mock-draft-zac-risacher-nikola-topic-cody-williams-reed-sheppard-rising/

[spurraider21]

I'm not putting much stock at all in Topic's very few minutes of EuroLeague play... as in i cant have any real takeaways from it. but that in and of itself is a problem. his anticipated euroleague play was to be a critical part of the evaluation, to see if he can still hang against better competition. now we have no real evidence of that one way or another, so any evaluation of him is going to feel incomplete.

[The Truth #6]

It's almost as if this a very nebulous draft with more uncertainty than ever...who knew!

[JPB]

Topic hurt his knee on January 4 and was supposed to be out 4 to 6 weeks. We're now 10 weeks after January 4 and he still hasn't played...

Hoosphype has published his latest aggregate mock draft. I don't find the average draft order that interesting but they have quotes from NBA people on various players:
https://hoopshype.com/lists/2024-aggregate-mock-draft-zac-risacher-nikola-topic-cody-williams-reed-sheppard-rising/

On 28th of February (2 weeks ago).

https://www.rotowire.com/euro/player/nikola-topic-1081

"Topic (knee) took jump shots Thursday, according to Meridian Sport.

"The last update on Topic's status indicated that he had resumed running, and the latest one signals another step in his recovery from the knee injury he sustained in early January. Head coach Ioannis Sfairopoulos, via another report from Meridian Sport, revealed that Topic is not yet training with his teammates, so he remains sidelined for now. However, it appears his absence may not extend much further."

That was 2 weeks ago and he's still not playing. Maybe his agent wants to take zero risks and be sure he'll be ready for the combine and workouts. It takes as much time to come back to 100% from an injury than the time you were out... A dozen weeks without competition, that's almost another 3 months to get back to rythm, if you actually do... I don't know if they actually plan on skipping workouts.

but yeah, the lack of real competitive games Topic played in could makei it hard for scouts and GMs to evaluate the kid. He's a real risk, like most picks tho.

[exstatic]

No it's not. Doncic was referring to the Euroleague (where Topic had two underwhelming games) not ABA. Come on, no one can say it's easier to drive in the NBA wiht freakish athlets waiting to block the Hell out of you than in the godam ABA. And it's one thing to get to the basket, it's another to finish in the NBA. Watch those HL of Topic driving in the ABA, there's litterally no one to cover, help or protect the rim once he gets past his guy. he's just laying it up, like a grandpa in a senior game.

I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but rim running shot blockers, our own alien excepted, are no longer at a premium. No one wants to really integrate them, because they can be played off the floor in the playoffs. Case in point: Clint Capella vs. Golden State. They played him off the floor easily to the point where Houston salary dumped him that summer. He was one of the bright young centers in the game right up until GS destroyed him.

The boogy man is not waiting in the lane any more. Victor had more blocks in Feb. than other entire teams.

[spurraider21]

I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but rim running shot blockers, our own alien excepted, are no longer at a premium. No one wants to really integrate them, because they can be played off the floor in the playoffs. Case in point: Clint Capella vs. Golden State. They played him off the floor easily to the point where Houston salary dumped him that summer. He was one of the bright young centers in the game right up until GS destroyed him.

The boogy man is not waiting in the lane any more. Victor had more blocks in Feb. than other entire teams.
Dallas seems to be enjoying Lively and then doubled down by trading for Gafford, so they basically have one of them on the floor at all times. though there have been moments where Lively's drop coverage has gotten them in trouble

[vy65]

Dallas seems to be enjoying Lively and then doubled down by trading for Gafford, so they basically have one of them on the floor at all times. though there have been moments where Lively's drop coverage has gotten them in trouble

I'd put Jarrett Allen, Rudy G, Zubac, and Kristaps (to some extent) in that category as well.

#trollswarm

[rjv]

On 28th of February (2 weeks ago).

https://www.rotowire.com/euro/player/nikola-topic-1081

"Topic (knee) took jump shots Thursday, according to Meridian Sport.

"The last update on Topic's status indicated that he had resumed running, and the latest one signals another step in his recovery from the knee injury he sustained in early January. Head coach Ioannis Sfairopoulos, via another report from Meridian Sport, revealed that Topic is not yet training with his teammates, so he remains sidelined for now. However, it appears his absence may not extend much further."

That was 2 weeks ago and he's still not playing. Maybe his agent wants to take zero risks and be sure he'll be ready for the combine and workouts. It takes as much time to come back to 100% from an injury than the time you were out... A dozen weeks without competition, that's almost another 3 months to get back to rythm, if you actually do... I don't know if they actually plan on skipping workouts.

but yeah, the lack of real competitive games Topic played in could makei it hard for scouts and GMs to evaluate the kid. He's a real risk, like most picks tho.

i read that same update. on the upper corner of that page, there was an ETA of March 20th as his return date.

[LeBowen]

I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but rim running shot blockers, our own alien excepted, are no longer at a premium. No one wants to really integrate them, because they can be played off the floor in the playoffs. Case in point: Clint Capella vs. Golden State. They played him off the floor easily to the point where Houston salary dumped him that summer. He was one of the bright young centers in the game right up until GS destroyed him.

The boogy man is not waiting in the lane any more. Victor had more blocks in Feb. than other entire teams.

You know what teams also don't want to integrate? Defensive traffic cones, unless they're at least all-star level players.

Since you mentioned shot blockers, remember Gobert at Utah?
Played defense 1v5 more or less during the regular season and won DPOYs.
Come the playoffs, he looked bad against Houston not because he's useless, but because in every Jazz lineup there were at least 3 defensive traffic cones out on the perimeter.

As we're seeing this season, it doesn't matter if you've got a potential defensive GOAT on the floor, having negative defenders will only get you so far.
A lot of people don't want Trae Young because they're concerned about his defense (rightfully so) and he's one of the best offensive engines in the league.

Just because Topic is supposedly 6'6 (more like barely 6'5 with subpar wingspan) it doesn't mean it would be easy to hide him.

Solid point guards are easy to find around the league if we're going the route of not having a star point guard, which is most likely a smart decision.
But legit wings are really hard to find because most of them get overpaid and asking prices for wings are really high.

Right now, I'm fully in the camp of taking wings with both our picks.

Or just take Dillingham and hope he's the next Iverson or something.
He's already got the skillset, he just needs to translate it to the NBA.
Topic needs to develop his skillset and then translate it to the NBA, way harder to accomplish.

[CGD]

Yup... Give me Risacher, Topic, or Buzelis with the spurs pick depending on who's available

It'll be one of these guys. If Risacher is in fact coming down to earth (as opposed to just being in a mini slump), i do think that opens the door for Matas to slot back up as the top SF/PF prospect. At that point it'll be preference: take the best PG prospect or SF prospect.

[heyheymymy]

both early games blowouts in the NCAA conference championships, was watching in the background

Dalton Knecht 4-17 FG 2-9 3PM. Hubbard not afraid to shoot as usual

Got UCONN up 430 CST going to look at Castle. Been watching some UCONN to see him and I'm intrigued. Wish he shot better but could see him develop over time.

Really attracted to the program, feel like huge schools like UCONN dedicate so much to the athletic staff. Those players are getting pretty good acclimation from a sterling program especially a winning one that gives deep tourney experience or even championship mettle. Pretty useful for hyper progression when you have access to that level of resources.

Why I liked Jordan Hawkins last year. Championship experience from a top class program. Does Castle bring that level of training?

[baseline bum]

my problem with castle is i just dont know what he is. i think you're hoping he becomes an all around player like iguodala/butler. he doesnt quite look like a lead guard, lacks the jumper to be a traditional 2, lacks ideal length to be a 3, so there's just some questions about how he exactly fits in the nba

Was just contrasting with Collier, who is all those things minus 3 inches.

[spurraider21]

Was just contrasting with Collier, who is all those things minus 3 inches.
tbh castle is a better passer than collier is :lol

at least a more willing one. every time i watched collier he just has blinders on and is looking straight at the rim and nowhere else.

[Dejounte]

both early games blowouts in the NCAA conference championships, was watching in the background

Dalton Knecht 4-17 FG 2-9 3PM. Hubbard not afraid to shoot as usual

Got UCONN up 430 CST going to look at Castle. Been watching some UCONN to see him and I'm intrigued. Wish he shot better but could see him develop over time.

Really attracted to the program, feel like huge schools like UCONN dedicate so much to the athletic staff. Those players are getting pretty good acclimation from a sterling program especially a winning one that gives deep tourney experience or even championship mettle. Pretty useful for hyper progression when you have access to that level of resources.

Why I liked Jordan Hawkins last year. Championship experience from a top class program. Does Castle bring that level of training?

Castle is a perfect Spur already… scoreless while his teammates are scoring all the points. Spurs like players who are content with being the third option on offense.

[rjv]

castle somehow manages to score zero points in that half, lmao.

[TrainOfThought5]

The more I watch these other guards, the more I want Rob Dillingham.

[baseline bum]

castle somehow manages to score zero points in that half, lmao.

Sounds like a Spur already

[spurraider21]

The more I watch these other guards, the more I want Rob Dillingham.
yeah i feel more confident about his nba projection than any other guard. while that unfortunately includes a high confidence level that he will be targeting on defense, that can be worked around somewhat

[rjv]

kentucky getting ready to tip-off against a&m. ags have no offense but can defend well so looking to see how dillingham and sheppard fare.

[vy65]

Sounds like a Spur already

You son of a bitch, I’m in

[heyheymymy]

seems like the trend for me is the guy with draft potential you are supposed to watch does nothing while his teammates who are projected later or not in the draft at all go nuts

was watching Colorado Utah and felt like Cody Williams did noting noteworthy (6/3) with Simpson, de Silva and Lamkin jr going off. Now Castle barely a factor and Newtown and Spencer go hot

story of this draft

[vy65]

Jesus, Dilly just murdered an A&M defender

[spurraider21]

Jesus, Dilly just murdered an A&M defender
1768780296759947517

[vy65]

1768780296759947517

It’s a shame his defense is abortion-tier

[baseline bum]

It’s a shame his defense is abortion-tier

Would fit right in here then

[baseline bum]

Jesus, Dilly just murdered an A&M defender

Sounds classless, doesn't sound like the good role models Brynn and Joshua have been at point for us.

[scott]

Is Sheppard supposed to be a decent defender? Not seeing it so far against A&M

[TekXX]

Is Sheppard any better than these other guys on the court?

[rjv]

1768780296759947517

he's been pretty quiet since then but that was a sick move, alright.

[rjv]

Is Sheppard supposed to be a decent defender? Not seeing it so far against A&M


kentucky's weakness is their team defense; it's pretty damn bad.

[mo7888]

Is Sheppard supposed to be a decent defender? Not seeing it so far against A&M

Team defender.... quick hands... not so much one on one..

[TekXX]

Sheppard turning it over left and right

[spurraider21]

Sheppard turning it over left and right
he has 2 turnovers, so i guess 1 was left and 1 was right?

[scott]

Pleasantly surprised by Dilly's 1-on-1 defense. He's small, but he appears a willing defender.

Less impressed with his decision making in this game.

[spurraider21]

Pleasantly surprised by Dilly's 1-on-1 defense. He's small, but he appears a willing defender.

Less impressed with his decision making in this game.
he can work on his decision making while getting over himself in austin for 2 seasons

[Mr. Body]

Is Sheppard supposed to be a decent defender? Not seeing it so far against A&M

He's a really poor man-to-man defender, but not as bad as Dillingham. Sheppard can make big plays helping though. Incredible hands.

[rjv]

dillingham picked it up there towards the end of the half.

[Mr. Body]

Pleasantly surprised by Dilly's 1-on-1 defense. He's small, but he appears a willing defender.

Less impressed with his decision making in this game.

Dillingham was godawful on D earlier in the year, would make utterly bizarre rotations that made you think he didn't even understand basketball. Like leaving a guy rolling to the basket on an inbound in order to take his man on the perimeter.

To me he clearly is working on it.

On O, his decision making isn't always the best, leading me after the last game to question his feel for the game.

[TekXX]

How tall are Dillingham and Sheppard, they seem small?

[Mr. Body]

How tall are Dillingham and Sheppard, they seem small?

I think Dillingham isn't even 6'0" and Sheppard is a little bit taller.

[Dejounte]

A&M’s overwhelming size killed Kentucky

[Mr. Body]

A&M’s overwhelming size killed Kentucky

I don't even think they're bigger. They're just rugged and way tougher. UK are prissy and weak.

[vy65]

Dilly

[vy65]

Two bombs and a nice assist

[rascal]

Sounds like a Spur already

Castle had a subpar offensive showing.

[baseline bum]

Castle had a subpar offensive showing.

Just needs to be subpar defensively too and he'll fit right in with Vassell and Branham.

[Dejounte]

Kentucky treating Dilly like he’s their Trae Young (first option down the stretch) but it hasn’t looked great

[Mr. Body]

Kentucky treating Dilly like he’s their Trae Young (first option down the stretch) but it hasn’t looked great

My brother in Christ, he was the only player who would or could do anything for Kentucky. Who else could get scores?

[Mr. Body]

Once again confirms all my previous thoughts, maybe even more. I wouldn't take Sheppard in the top 10, even in this draft. He will hit shots for you, make deflections, but he's going to be a mess on the next level. He was absolutely nowhere to be found in the second half. I understand he's just a freshman, but he disappeared. Other than two games where he did very well, this has been the story. He had a great game last time out and the whole world freaked out and Kevin bleepin' O'Connor put him as freakin number 1.

He's too slow to blow by people, or even get close. He can't even get much separation even when he gets a screen. His sense of the court is good, but it doesn't matter if he can only sometimes do anything with it. On defense, he's actually pretty poor. He can't stay in front of anybody and if he gets screened, he's just executed. Kentucky had to try to ride Dillingham to victory, or even get it close, because he's all they have.

[alfahdlan]

You can't have all. You choose, IQ or Talent?

[rjv]

Ags aren’t usually good offensively but Kentucky’s defense is so bad, it made them look like juggernauts. A&M, on the other hand, will make other teams work for their points.

[onechance87]

...........

[heyheymymy]

the more I watch the less I want

[Robz4000]

the more I watch the less I want

Why I'm 100% on board with trading this years pick and Toronto's not conveying until next year.

[onechance87]

...........

topic or dilly at pg....Any of topic,dilly,castle would be immediate upgrades over tre

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/MikeAScotto/status/1768700777126604823

[mo7888]

Once again confirms all my previous thoughts, maybe even more. I wouldn't take Sheppard in the top 10, even in this draft. He will hit shots for you, make deflections, but he's going to be a mess on the next level. He was absolutely nowhere to be found in the second half. I understand he's just a freshman, but he disappeared. Other than two games where he did very well, this has been the story. He had a great game last time out and the whole world freaked out and Kevin bleepin' O'Connor put him as freakin number 1.

He's too slow to blow by people, or even get close. He can't even get much separation even when he gets a screen. His sense of the court is good, but it doesn't matter if he can only sometimes do anything with it. On defense, he's actually pretty poor. He can't stay in front of anybody and if he gets screened, he's just executed. Kentucky had to try to ride Dillingham to victory, or even get it close, because he's all they have.

Sheppard only tried to get in the lane 3 times that I saw, and each time, he did it effortlessly. He couldn't finish against length and passed out, but the passes demonstrated his court vision/awareness.

I'm not really disagreeing with your take here, though, just providing a little nuance in those situations. Those plays were effective, but ky didn't go back to it. I wonder if that was by design because they felt that not being able to finish at the rim would come back to bite them? Or did Sheppard just go away from it because he got intimidated in the lane? If he had a consistent floater (I know he hit one to put the dagger in Mississippi State) it seems like that would open things up.

[BatManu20]

This draft is looking weaker and weaker by the day tbh

[scott]

This team is so bad, and this year's draft is so bad, that it's starting to push me into Team TankAgain25. I really don't want to be in this space, and I'm sure neither does Wemby.

[TekXX]

Is this the weakest draft of all time? What i saw tonight, Dillingham and Sheppard shouldn't be rising

[mo7888]

Is this the weakest draft of all time? What i saw tonight, Dillingham and Sheppard shouldn't be rising

I'm not sure about all time, but definitely the weakest in the modern era coming into it..

[DesignatedT]

Yeah I don’t know about Sheppard being a top 3 pick. I know he’s a great off ball defender and such but man he really struggled to defend Wade Taylor tonight one on one. I think he has major limitations for being a top 3 pick.

[Pauleta14]

This team is so bad, and this year's draft is so bad, that it's starting to push me into Team TankAgain25. I really don't want to be in this space, and I'm sure neither does Wemby.

We can’t have another season of Tre Sochan and Champagnie, Victor is going to quit basketball …

[BackHome]

I really really really hate this draft - Also if anyone thinks who ever we draft is going to make an instant impact is living in la la land....

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, it's a pretty shit draft and really might be one of the worst ever. But I'm confident the Spurs can pull a good player with their own pick. Not sure about the Toronto pick. And there seems to be some good depth, so that 33 pick could be pretty good for us.

[Mr. Body]

Sheppard only tried to get in the lane 3 times that I saw, and each time, he did it effortlessly. He couldn't finish against length and passed out, but the passes demonstrated his court vision/awareness.

I'm not really disagreeing with your take here, though, just providing a little nuance in those situations. Those plays were effective, but ky didn't go back to it. I wonder if that was by design because they felt that not being able to finish at the rim would come back to bite them? Or did Sheppard just go away from it because he got intimidated in the lane? If he had a consistent floater (I know he hit one to put the dagger in Mississippi State) it seems like that would open things up.

I shouldn't say Sheppard can't get into the lane. He has a nice drive with his right hand, especially when he backs up and goes into it. He's great in transition. I'm not sure I agree that his vision is that great when he drives and he doesn't do a whole lot when he gets in - although he can hit midrange shots.

It's just that Dillingham is far better as a creator, especially when the defense is setting in the endgame. There are so many games now where Dillingham puts everyone in his backpack and generates as much as he can. Tonight there were blown possessions and things that didn't work, but he hit shots, collapsed the defense, found shooters and guys under the basket. He's just much more effective. (And Sheppard is a great off-ball shooter, so benefits from Rob creating for him.)

To me (and not knowing Topic, etc.) he's still the most talented kid in the draft.

[Atl Spur]

I’d still take Knecht….

[baseline bum]

This team is so bad, and this year's draft is so bad, that it's starting to push me into Team TankAgain25. I really don't want to be in this space, and I'm sure neither does Wemby.

Ugh when you look at a draft and hope the guy going #1 is going to be as good as Nicolas Batum

[baseline bum]

I'm not sure about all time, but definitely the weakest in the modern era coming into it..

You think it can beat 2000 for shittiness? Ugh some of the lottery picks of that draft like Marcus Fizer, Jerome Moiso, Stromile Swift, Dermarr Johnson, Chris Mihm, Mateen Cleaves, Darius Miles, etc :lol

[spurraider21]

I think Dillingham is a solid tier above Sheppard. The top 3 stuff for Sheppard is madness.

i still like Risacher. Not going to let a couple of bad games skew judgment too much after the season he’s had

i don’t think there’s a world where we can land both though

[Ignazzz]

You think it can beat 2000 for shittiness? Ugh some of the lottery picks of that draft like Marcus Fizer, Jerome Moiso, Stromile Swift, Dermarr Johnson, Chris Mihm, Mateen Cleaves, Darius Miles, etc :lol

epic draft. One Kenyon Martin and maybe Miller as role player 3rd best behind Hedo. Ouch Redd 2rd 4-5 solid guys

[mo7888]

You think it can beat 2000 for shittiness? Ugh some of the lottery picks of that draft like Marcus Fizer, Jerome Moiso, Stromile Swift, Dermarr Johnson, Chris Mihm, Mateen Cleaves, Darius Miles, etc :lol

Unfortunately, yea I do..

[alfahdlan]

To sum up, what do have with Sheppard so far: A 54.5/52.3/83.1 FG/3P/FT shooter; a ball hawk with 80 steals in 32 games (7 shy of Rondo’s record in 34 games); Top freshman based on Evanmiya.com; High win share and BPM; and a decent playmaker. All I am asking is Toronto pick for this player.

[Ariel]

It's just that Dillingham is far better as a creator, especially when the defense is setting in the endgame. There are so many games now where Dillingham puts everyone in his backpack and generates as much as he can. Tonight there were blown possessions and things that didn't work, but he hit shots, collapsed the defense, found shooters and guys under the basket. He's just much more effective. (And Sheppard is a great off-ball shooter, so benefits from Rob creating for him.)
This is what it has always come down to for me, when Kentucky NEEDS something to happen, it's always about Dillingham. Sheppard can have a huge impact with his shooting, transition passing, and smart reads on both ends, but he struggles to get anything going in the halfcourt when the defense is set, countless times with the game on the line and Kentucky needing a bucket, he gets the ball, looks around, and passes it back Sochan style. He's just not that good at creating his own shot, and he won't take anything other than super quality shots (possibly because he's super aware of how being efficient affect his draft stock).

Dillingham on the other hand catches flak for sometimes being a little wild, turning it over or failing to finish SUPER TOUGH shots, but he's basically the only one who is capable of creating in those situations and he doesn't back down, more often than not with good results. I didn't watch the whole game last night, just the last 8 minutes or so, but all things considered he made some key shots and assists, was really active on defense (not necessarily effective, but it's a start) and, though he did have some untimely turnovers, they weren't disproportionately high for the context (look at Trae in key games, for a reference). I thought he did fine.

Also, there is this tendency to discard players on some games and lose context, Brandon Miller had one AWFUL game last year (3/19 from the field, 1/10 from 3, 6 TO) yet he's still far and away the 2nd best rookie from the '23 class (Chet isn't a rookie). All in all, I'm a believer in his ability to be a game changer on offense at the next level. Whether he's going to be a net possitive in playoff situations (due to defensive shortcomings) I don't know, but if he does what he can he'll be good for his rookie deal at least, making Vic's life much easier (keeping him happy is a priority) and being a store of value that can be moved for other more "winning" chips later on if necessary (I'm assuming he can be at least 70% of Garland/Maxey), which is harder to do if you pick a bust pioritizing long term fit over talent.

On the other hand, I'm not out on Sheppard but he's definitely more of a role player. The Steph comparisons are way off, he's not in the same stratosphere in terms of movement or handles, Steph is like the best of Sheppard, Dillingham and Hawkins, and in steroids. Sheppard can still be a very nice complementary piece if we pick around 9/10 or so and all the higher upside prospects are gone. But I'd consider other options as well.

[Dejounte]

IMO, players with a glimmer of star upside:
-Dilly
-Topic
-Buzelis
-Collier

Players with no star upside but with chance to turn out to be super role players
-Shepperd
-Sarr
-Rissacher
-Dalton

Role players, nothing more:
-Castle
-Cody Williams


games like last night give so much more context to how they are used, and give way more insight than stats. Stat geeks will ignore games like last and point to free throw percentages or assist/turnover rates. They don’t care about anything but tankathon, tbh.

[heyheymymy]

Maybe this draft is actually alright but many names are just super raw right now but with the tools to one day be good or at least solid support players. High potential but just a lump of clay right now and it's up to a coaching staff to see into the future a bit and project ahead that they could draft, sculpt and mold these raw kids into a good NBA player, just going to take 2-5 seasons from start to come to fruition. Like Williams and Castle. Both just seem like solid starting points in terms of physical frame and basic basketball functions / what they hypothetically stand to bring; yet mute to demonstrating consistent/any brilliance currently. Could they be further assembled over time and eventually built out into a solid pro? Like a solid engine, you just have to build the frame. Reminds me of DJM a bit if you will, and if I'm not misremembering he did fall but was a steal at his selection because he fell for being an off court knucklehead mostly. He was raw too so it was an investment just like I'm saying but look at him now vs first few seasons. He would perhaps go way higher in a redraft with hindsight. Obvs Spurs timeline/Wemby can't afford to wait for fruit to ripen on the vine. Seems other moves to reflect this urgency should be on the table to consider.

Not a fan of them but Buzelis and Salaun are another two that while I'm only mild on, I'd probably gamble that with the right focus, role and environment, you could turn that coal into a diamond over 3-5 seasons just due to the starting materials. Not a hill I'd die on, but more "if you squint real hard maybe"

Some steamy takes here but makes me wonder if some bigger names have under the table pledges from NBA teams already and that's why they play so passive. Williams and Castle in mind, both passive enough and projected high enough to qualify for this. A team tells you they want you, you like it, everything's locked up then and nothing left to play for and risk the payday on an injury so just go through the motions until time to level up. Meanwhile the teammates are busting out because they still have to earn it?

Feels like I'm just thinking a lot about Williams and Castle. Two I want to like but show nothing to get very excited about outside of drastic and likely unrealistic extrapolation. "but just" is the theme of this draft.

[KobesAchilles]

Give me Dilly with our pick and Buz with the Raps pick.

[Dejounte]

Maybe this draft is actually alright but many names are just super raw right now but with the tools to one day be good or at least solid support players. High potential but just a lump of clay right now and it's up to a coaching staff to see into the future a bit and project ahead that they could draft, sculpt and mold these raw kids into a good NBA player, just going to take 2-5 seasons from start to come to fruition. Like Williams and Castle. Both just seem like solid starting points in terms of physical frame and basic basketball functions / what they hypothetically stand to bring; yet mute to demonstrating consistent/any brilliance currently. Could they be further assembled over time and eventually built out into a solid pro? Like a solid engine, you just have to build the frame. Reminds me of DJM a bit if you will, and if I'm not misremembering he did fall but was a steal at his selection because he fell for being an off court knucklehead mostly. He was raw too so it was an investment just like I'm saying but look at him now vs first few seasons. He would perhaps go way higher in a redraft with hindsight. Obvs Spurs timeline/Wemby can't afford to wait for fruit to ripen on the vine. Seems other moves to reflect this urgency should be on the table to consider.

Not a fan of them but Buzelis and Salaun are another two that while I'm only mild on, I'd probably gamble that with the right focus, role and environment, you could turn that coal into a diamond over 3-5 seasons just due to the starting materials. Not a hill I'd die on, but more "if you squint real hard maybe"

Some steamy takes here but makes me wonder if some bigger names have under the table pledges from NBA teams already and that's why they play so passive. Williams and Castle in mind, both passive enough and projected high enough to qualify for this. A team tells you they want you, you like it, everything's locked up then and nothing left to play for and risk the payday on an injury so just go through the motions until time to level up. Meanwhile the teammates are busting out because they still have to earn it?

Feels like I'm just thinking a lot about Williams and Castle. Two I want to like but show nothing to get very excited about outside of drastic and likely unrealistic extrapolation. "but just" is the theme of this draft.

The under-the-table conspiracy you just laid out puts these organizations more at risk of breaking NBA code and ethics and for what? So they can have a more likely chance of drafting a random kid themselves? Do you really think the Spurs tell their own employees to go and tell these kids to play bad so they can be drafted? If that was such a thing, it would have leaked by now. By the 18 year old or by that 18 year old’s family.

[heyheymymy]

Yeah you're probably right. Just feel like at the end of the day NBA is an entertainment business, there are probably ways to send info through back channels where it's mostly untraceable, and the incentives may outweigh the risk.

You do see things like forfeited picks for tampering in the NBA already. PHI lost a 2RP for tampering in FA, and PHX lost a 2RP for talking to FA Drewbanks before legally allowed. Could be just the tip of the iceberg. Maybe it's only worth it for a Brunson, maybe it only happens in FA and not the draft. I don't know, I heard the rumor about Haliburton telling teams don't draft me. Bet it occurs here and there.

[Rosewood]

IMO, players with a glimmer of star upside:
-Dilly
-Topic
-Buzelis
-Collier

Players with no star upside but with chance to turn out to be super role players
-Shepperd
-Sarr
-Rissacher
-Dalton

Role players, nothing more:
-Castle
-Cody Williams


games like last night give so much more context to how they are used, and give way more insight than stats. Stat geeks will ignore games like last and point to free throw percentages or assist/turnover rates. They don’t care about anything but tankathon, tbh. you don’t think Sarr has the potential to be a star?

[Dejounte]

you don’t think Sarr has the potential to be a star?

I don’t, but it’s just my opinion.

[exstatic]

you don’t think Sarr has the potential to be a star?

I get a serious Michael Olowokandi vibe from him. Here’s the thing: if you have motor issues, that’s really incurable. You can be cajoled into effort over a span like the draft evaluation period, but you’ll always go back to floating through games. If it’s not in you, it’s not in you. Guys with motors never have to be asked to give extra effort.

[Pauleta14]

Anytime I'm starting to be into a player, he's having bad games lol

Topic got injured
Cody hand injury and since so so
Risacher series of bad outings
Sheppard now :lol

[spurraider21]

You have to bank on Sheppard developing handles, change of pace type stuff to be a real threat off the dribble. He has glimpses of that stuff but not nearly consistent enough to be a full time pg. he won’t be a great man defender at either position but he’d get murdered as a 2

or you have to pair him with a big pg like castle/topic so they can cross-match defensively

With that said his advanced stats and on off numbers are absolutely bonkers

[Mr. Body]

IMO, players with a glimmer of star upside:
-Dilly
-Topic
-Buzelis
-Collier

Players with no star upside but with chance to turn out to be super role players
-Shepperd
-Sarr
-Rissacher
-Dalton

Role players, nothing more:
-Castle
-Cody Williams


games like last night give so much more context to how they are used, and give way more insight than stats. Stat geeks will ignore games like last and point to free throw percentages or assist/turnover rates. They don’t care about anything but tankathon, tbh.

I think the breakdown of players is pretty accurate, more or less. I have a higher opinion of Castle, for example. I've been more down on Risacher and Sheppard, but they definitely can be good players (I'd pick Risacher). I don't think I'd take Sarr with a top few picks, but at 8, definitely interested.

[Mr. Body]

Maybe this draft is actually alright but many names are just super raw right now but with the tools to one day be good or at least solid support players. High potential but just a lump of clay right now and it's up to a coaching staff to see into the future a bit and project ahead that they could draft, sculpt and mold these raw kids into a good NBA player, just going to take 2-5 seasons from start to come to fruition. Like Williams and Castle. Both just seem like solid starting points in terms of physical frame and basic basketball functions / what they hypothetically stand to bring; yet mute to demonstrating consistent/any brilliance currently. Could they be further assembled over time and eventually built out into a solid pro? Like a solid engine, you just have to build the frame. Reminds me of DJM a bit if you will, and if I'm not misremembering he did fall but was a steal at his selection because he fell for being an off court knucklehead mostly. He was raw too so it was an investment just like I'm saying but look at him now vs first few seasons. He would perhaps go way higher in a redraft with hindsight. Obvs Spurs timeline/Wemby can't afford to wait for fruit to ripen on the vine. Seems other moves to reflect this urgency should be on the table to consider.

Not a fan of them but Buzelis and Salaun are another two that while I'm only mild on, I'd probably gamble that with the right focus, role and environment, you could turn that coal into a diamond over 3-5 seasons just due to the starting materials. Not a hill I'd die on, but more "if you squint real hard maybe"

Some steamy takes here but makes me wonder if some bigger names have under the table pledges from NBA teams already and that's why they play so passive. Williams and Castle in mind, both passive enough and projected high enough to qualify for this. A team tells you they want you, you like it, everything's locked up then and nothing left to play for and risk the payday on an injury so just go through the motions until time to level up. Meanwhile the teammates are busting out because they still have to earn it?

Feels like I'm just thinking a lot about Williams and Castle. Two I want to like but show nothing to get very excited about outside of drastic and likely unrealistic extrapolation. "but just" is the theme of this draft.

Definitely can't agree with any promises thing. Certainly not this far out and even more for the high lottery slots.

That said, Castle and Williams play for teams jammed with veterans. Each has upperclassmen who are also going to be draft picks who are better and more important players right now. UConn is a championship contender and Colorado, after ups and downs, is solidly in the NCAAT field.

Castle. He was recruited by Dan Hurley as a four-star before UConn got its championship and Castle blew up into a five star. He stuck with them and was always attracted to the non-fussy environment. Right now he plays as a connective piece sharing duties initiating the offense. He unfortunately is not an outside scoring threat, but does a lot of other things. Despite not carrying a large scoring load, he's trusted to do most everything else.

Williams. Also honored his commitment to a school after rising in hs rankings. Due to his role, he doesn't handle the ball as much as Castle and takes a backseat offensively, but is trusted to move the ball up the court and has good handles. Like Castle, he is trusted to do the right things, rotations on defense, swing the ball, and he does this. To me, he looks more like a freshman and seems more 'passive,' because he posts in the corners in many sets and Castle has prime ball-handling duties.

I'm not really sure what we'd see if they went to schools where they'd be more featured.

[heyheymymy]

touche Dejounte and Mr Body

good thoughts and I've adjusted my views

[BackHome]

Yeah, I have to agree Dejounte and Mr. Body make good points - I feel like a Bi Polar basketball college fan right now one day I like a certain player the next day watching them I hate them. I swear this draft has been the hardest for me to figure out I don't even have 1 favorite cat in this draft from first round to second round...

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, I have to agree Dejounte and Mr. Body make good points - I feel like a Bi Polar basketball college fan right now one day I like a certain player the next day watching them I hate them. I swear this draft has been the hardest for me to figure out I don't even have 1 favorite cat in this draft from first round to second round...

Pretty much the same. I think we're all tired of the poor play and limitations of the team. It would be nice to know the draft could fix some of these problems and the available players don't look like homerun swings and each has question marks. So it feels like the year was a loss (in that regard). But I feel like the Spurs can get a couple of players in this draft - even not getting the Raptors pick - who will improve the roster.

[heyheymymy]

Has anyone looked into PG Juan Nuñez, who was named MVP of the FIBA U20 European Championship 2022 when he was 18? Playing for a Spanish club now at 20 years old, 6'4" 190. Projected late 2nd round, interesting highlights. Decent handles, scores on drives with a solid burst. Some loose ball/poke away fast breaks, nice finishes, and basic distribution with a few nifty passes. Has this sling pass that looks kind of sneaky. Seems like a Spursy project pick. Nuñez is teammates with 18 year old SF/PF Pacome Dadiet 6"8" 187 also projected around mid 2nd as of now and has been mocked to SA with #44. When you watch Pacome highlights, some of his offense starts with a Nuñez pass. Nuñez/Dadiet is my new irrational overhype of the week lol

Would be cool to target them both as a chemistry duo. Says they played Bourg which has Risacher and I'm looking at film on that. Some of the most promising names in Europe. Pretty good tape (Nov. 2023) as it has all 3 on court: https://youtu.be/AGJWiTikiiY

Was looking at second round and wondering who everyone liked there? Looks loaded with nice names. Collin Murray-Boyles, KJ Simpson, Kyshawn George may fall around #33 and Tyler Kolek, Trey Alexander around #44.

Probably see Spurs punt #33 in a trade for a future 2nd tbh but figure they pick one 2nd rounder who would you prefer?

[mo7888]

IMO, players with a glimmer of star upside:
-Dilly
-Topic
-Buzelis
-Collier

Players with no star upside but with chance to turn out to be super role players
-Shepperd
-Sarr
-Rissacher
-Dalton

Role players, nothing more:
-Castle
-Cody Williams


games like last night give so much more context to how they are used, and give way more insight than stats. Stat geeks will ignore games like last and point to free throw percentages or assist/turnover rates. They don’t care about anything but tankathon, tbh.

This

[Frenchfred]

Pretty much the same. I think we're all tired of the poor play and limitations of the team. It would be nice to know the draft could fix some of these problems and the available players don't look like homerun swings and each has question marks. So it feels like the year was a loss (in that regard). But I feel like the Spurs can get a couple of players in this draft - even not getting the Raptors pick - who will improve the roster.

no matter who the Spurs pick, it is not going to be a high contributor. There is a pretty good chance that the Spurs will run the same show next year with maybe a veteran or two. The 2025 draft has more talent and the pool of free agents has a lot of good names.

[Mr. Body]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwTWDhiNFw0&t=7s

Whoever is posting these game clips showing defensive possessions and misses is greatly appreciated.

0:07 Dillingham is taking his may way, way too high out imo. Sheppard does this, too, and I can only guess Calipari wants it. Why? I don't get it!
0:37 This is pretty common for him, doesn't provide resistance and gets blown by. Making it worse, he just ballwatches.
1:45 A good rotation. I don't think he was quite doing this earlier in the year.
2:00 Yes! Effin yes! This is what I want -- he has the quickness to stay in front of guys. Here, he's tuned in and keeps his man in front for a good contest!
2:27 Ivisic takes his man off the pick and Dillingham makes a good rotation to take the kick-out. I don't really have a problem with this. Dillingham seems aware of what's going on.
3:05 Yes! Fucking yes! He's using his quickness to bother his man, and it's effective!

I won't go through all of it, but to be honest, I really think Dillingham is improving on defense. Remember he went to Donda Academy for one year and then Overtime Elite, so his coaching has been pretty miserable and likely all offense, all individual-skill based.

But what I see in those bolded examples are exactly what I personally love to see from Dillingham. He's never going to overcome his height problems on defense, but if he busts his butt and actually uses his quickness, he can stay in front of guys and bother him, and if he keeps working and gets good coaching, has the quickness to navigate screens and be at least a bit of a pest. I want to get rid of his ball-watching and teach him better rotations, but he's much better in my view in the last few months.

[Frenchfred]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwTWDhiNFw0&t=7s

Whoever is posting these game clips showing defensive possessions and misses is greatly appreciated.

0:07 Dillingham is taking his may way, way too high out imo. Sheppard does this, too, and I can only guess Calipari wants it. Why? I don't get it!
0:37 This is pretty common for him, doesn't provide resistance and gets blown by. Making it worse, he just ballwatches.
1:45 A good rotation. I don't think he was quite doing this earlier in the year.
2:00 Yes! Effin yes! This is what I want -- he has the quickness to stay in front of guys. Here, he's tuned in and keeps his man in front for a good contest!
2:27 Ivisic takes his man off the pick and Dillingham makes a good rotation to take the kick-out. I don't really have a problem with this. Dillingham seems aware of what's going on.
3:05 Yes! Fucking yes! He's using his quickness to bother his man, and it's effective!

I won't go through all of it, but to be honest, I really think Dillingham is improving on defense. Remember he went to Donda Academy for one year and then Overtime Elite, so his coaching has been pretty miserable and likely all offense, all individual-skill based.

But what I see in those bolded examples are exactly what I personally love to see from Dillingham. He's never going to overcome his height problems on defense, but if he busts his butt and actually uses his quickness, he can stay in front of guys and bother him, and if he keeps working and gets good coaching, has the quickness to navigate screens and be at least a bit of a pest. I want to get rid of his ball-watching and teach him better rotations, but he's much better in my view in the last few months.

when I watch this video, that confirms that he is a bad defender, a lot of toreador defense. And he looks more out of control in offense than I thought.

[CGD]

^ it’s sad, but I feel these type of micro non-PG guards are going to obsolete in the next five years.

[Mr. Body]

^ it’s sad, but I feel these type of micro non-PG guards are going to obsolete in the next five years.

People keep saying this, but they're all over the league.

If there's an era where they're more impactful than ever, it's this one.

[Mr. Body]

Just a cursory look at nba.com there are close to 100 players in the NBA who are listed as 6'3" or shorter (with shoes). With 450 players in the NBA, that's around 22%.

[Dejounte]

The sad thing is that even if Dilly gives it his all and stays in front of his man, NBA refs will still be biased when they see a small man get overpowered by a bigger man and call the foul on Dilly. Dilly has a high foul rate as it is in college. I think he’s cursed to be a liability on defense.

[BackHome]

I think the kid has talent but when it comes to measurements he might be 6' feet in shoes and weighing at 165pds - I look how Tre gets picked on and sometimes abused like in last night game and can only imagine what teams will do with him trying to guard down low. Doing what he does in college is one thing but can he do the same thing against NBA talent is another thing.

But like I said this draft is terrible and I do think he would be an excellent change of pace type of guard who can be an excellent spark of the bench or start when someone is injured. To me Dily and Sheppard are two guys who I would love to be our bench players after we find our starters for all the other positions...

[baseline bum]

Welp, let's see the Spurs next project in Cody Williams right now.

[TD 21]

The sad thing is that even if Dilly gives it his all and stays in front of his man, NBA refs will still be biased when they see a small man get overpowered by a bigger man and call the foul on Dilly. Dilly has a high foul rate as it is in college. I think he’s cursed to be a liability on defense.

It'll be the exact opposite considering they cater the rules towards smalls.

[Degoat]

Welp, let's see the Spurs next project in Cody Williams right now.

At first glance I wasn’t a fan of Williams, but he’s growing on me. The spurs really need a safe high upside guy in this draft because it could be the last time we draft this high.

[Ariel]

At first glance I wasn’t a fan of Williams, but he’s growing on me. The spurs really need a safe high upside guy in this draft because it could be the last time we draft this high.
Funny, I just got the opposite feeling. I watched only the first half, was so underwhelmed that didn't stay for the 2nd. I'm out on Cody Williams.

[Ariel]

Has anyone looked into PG Juan Nuñez, who was named MVP of the FIBA U20 European Championship 2022 when he was 18? Playing for a Spanish club now at 20 years old, 6'4" 190. Projected late 2nd round, interesting highlights. Decent handles, scores on drives with a solid burst. Some loose ball/poke away fast breaks, nice finishes, and basic distribution with a few nifty passes. Has this sling pass that looks kind of sneaky. Seems like a Spursy project pick. Nuñez is teammates with 18 year old SF/PF Pacome Dadiet 6"8" 187 also projected around mid 2nd as of now and has been mocked to SA with #44. When you watch Pacome highlights, some of his offense starts with a Nuñez pass. Nuñez/Dadiet is my new irrational overhype of the week lol

Would be cool to target them both as a chemistry duo. Says they played Bourg which has Risacher and I'm looking at film on that. Some of the most promising names in Europe. Pretty good tape (Nov. 2023) as it has all 3 on court: https://youtu.be/AGJWiTikiiY

Was looking at second round and wondering who everyone liked there? Looks loaded with nice names. Collin Murray-Boyles, KJ Simpson, Kyshawn George may fall around #33 and Tyler Kolek, Trey Alexander around #44.

Probably see Spurs punt #33 in a trade for a future 2nd tbh but figure they pick one 2nd rounder who would you prefer?
Didn't watch him to have an opinion, but the Spurs can't possibly roster all future incoming picks, so they either move some or they get creative, and one possible way out is using one of those 2nd rounders on a draft & stash Euro, like it happened recently with Procida, Kamagate, or Vukcevic. Nuñez could be one such guy.

[heyheymymy]

Was thinking the same thing Ariel

Stash rights might work with either Dadiet or Nuñez since perhaps they may be down to stay in Spain another year or so with Ratiopharm Ulm. Both 20 or under so there's time to develop for sure.

[Bruno]

Has anyone looked into PG Juan Nuñez, who was named MVP of the FIBA U20 European Championship 2022 when he was 18? Playing for a Spanish club now at 20 years old, 6'4" 190. Projected late 2nd round, interesting highlights. Decent handles, scores on drives with a solid burst. Some loose ball/poke away fast breaks, nice finishes, and basic distribution with a few nifty passes. Has this sling pass that looks kind of sneaky.

Nuñez is a true good young player. He was the starting PG of the Spanish national team last summer at the world cup while being only 19 years old. He is a good pick and roll PG with a questionable jump shot. I haven't seen enough of him to really tell you more. BTW, he isn't playing in Spain, Ratiopharm Ulm is a German team.

What Spurs will do with their two second round picks will obviously depend a lot on the available roster spots they have. Draft and Stash might be an option but signing a two way contract might be another one. Spurs' three two way players (Bouyea, Duke Jr. and Gray) aren't really legit NBA prospects: the two-way pipeline is empty.
I think the most likely for the Lakers second round pick is a two way player.
For their own second round pick, I guess it will depend a lot on whether or not Spurs get the Raptors first round pick.

[CGD]

Just a cursory look at nba.com there are close to 100 players in the NBA who are listed as 6'3" or shorter (with shoes). With 450 players in the NBA, that's around 22%.

But isnt the concern with this guy — setting aside defense and that at the combine he’ll come in closer to 6’0” + 0 wingspan than 6’3” with a positive WS— that he’s not really a PG/set up guy?

Most of that 22% I’ll venture to say are lead or back up PGs no? I’m curious what subset of that group are basically short SGs, or microwave off the bench types. I think those are the guys that are falling out of favor bc they’re the ones that get mercilessly hunted in meaningful basketball games.

But who the hell knows. This all seems like a crap shoot this draft cycle.

[sfernald]

I don’t, but it’s just my opinion.

Here is a solid scouting report on Sarr. I think he’s one of the more sure thing prospects in this draft full of uncertainty.


https://youtu.be/nzj9XcxcyrE?si=5vOuJf0cWEzi8sH3

[LeBowen]

Here is a solid scouting report on Sarr. I think he’s one of the more sure thing prospects in this draft full of uncertainty.

Even if he's a bad fit, he'd get at least 20mpg here the next season and if he proves to be the real deal, Spurs could easily trade him for the help Wemby needs.
Similar to Haliburton-Sabonis trade.

[Pauleta14]

Here is a solid scouting report on Sarr. I think he’s one of the more sure thing prospects in this draft full of uncertainty.


https://youtu.be/nzj9XcxcyrE?si=5vOuJf0cWEzi8sH3

Thx for sharing

Sarr is intriguing tbh. He could be the best pick on the long term. His mobility/quickness for his size could be too rare to pass on.

He has post up moves I wish Vic had, like his up and under

But anytime I watch him, the opposition looks really weak, contrary to Europe, the paint isn’t packed in Australia and it doesn’t make him work on bigs fundamentals much imo.

[Russ]

I like Sarr next after Topic but he's no sure thing (nor is even Topic for that matter).

Sarr seems like a potential D-Rob light, a lean athletic big who will probably never have the offensive skills of a Duncan or Wemby. But still effective.

Sarr may not have a go-to move on offense but neither did D-Rob, he just scored a lot. That's good enough.

On the other hand, Sarr could be another Wiseman (who I erroneously favored once), i.e., a meandering underachiever.

It all depends upon his motor and commitment. He looks like he's engaged but you can't really tell that until you see him play for long stretches.

Pairing Sarr with Wemby could create one of the best defenses in the league -- rim protection in the extreme.

The Spurs need to create an identity to become a great team -- these two guys on the defensive end could give them that.

The league is about ready to move to the next phase, a return to bigs after the Steph era of 3-point snipers.

Don't fight the last revolution, you'll always be scrambling to catch up -- create the next revolution, the next archetype, and you'll be on the ground floor.

[Mr. Body]

The first part of the year pretty much showed that Wembanyama can't co-exist with another big, much less a non-shooter.

[rascal]

Even if he's a bad fit, he'd get at least 20mpg here the next season and if he proves to be the real deal, Spurs could easily trade him for the help Wemby needs.
Similar to Haliburton-Sabonis trade.

If he proves to be the real deal you trade Sochan.

[rascal]

The first part of the year pretty much showed that Wembanyama can't co-exist with another big, much less a non-shooter.

Wemby didn't play with a real big the first part of the year. Collins is worthless.

[objective]

One of the reasons I'm not big on Sarr is my French Foreign Fraud theory, which hasn't really failed me with regard to first round picks

The theory goes that the domestic French league is plenty good with exposure, coaching, and money that legit French prospects stay in France and get noticed and scouted appropriately.

But players who leave France for other lesser leagues do it because they're not good enough to stand out in France. So by leaving for other leagues, they get noticed and pop with that extra notoriety of, "ooh, he's french!". And that is what happens and people defend it not realizing that the most legit French guys don't need to go elsewhere. Wemby was fine in France, Batum, Fournier, Coulibaly, Gobert, Parker, if a French player in a French league is legit, he'll get a first round grade.

When a player goes somewhere else, that should be a red flag: Timothy Luwawu-Cabarot, ABA fraud. Killian Hayes: German league fraud. Ousmane Dieng, on his way to being an Australian fraud. And now Sarr. Even Cissoko, if taken in the first round, probably would have been a g-league fraud.

Just a theory I have but I think it works.

[exstatic]

One of the reasons I'm not big on Sarr is my French Foreign Fraud theory, which hasn't really failed me with regard to first round picks

The theory goes that the domestic French league is plenty good with exposure, coaching, and money that legit French prospects stay in France and get noticed and scouted appropriately.

But players who leave France for other lesser leagues do it because they're not good enough to stand out in France. So by leaving for other leagues, they get noticed and pop with that extra notoriety of, "ooh, he's french!". And that is what happens and people defend it not realizing that the most legit French guys don't need to go elsewhere. Wemby was fine in France, Batum, Fournier, Coulibaly, Gobert, Parker, if a French player in a French league is legit, he'll get a first round grade.

When a player goes somewhere else, that should be a red flag: Timothy Luwawu-Cabarot, ABA fraud. Killian Hayes: German league fraud. Ousmane Dieng, on his way to being an Australian fraud. And now Sarr. Even Cissoko, if taken in the first round, probably would have been a g-league fraud.

Just a theory I have but I think it works.
Cissoko did play in Spain before the gleague, and that’s pretty good. He was on loan, which is why he had to be signed to an NBA contract to do his Spain buyout.

[Mr. Body]

Wemby didn't play with a real big the first part of the year. Collins is worthless.

Regardless of your opinion of Collins, it didn't work for Victor.

[buttsR4rebounding]

The first part of the year pretty much showed that Wembanyama can't co-exist with another big, much less a non-shooter.

It actually showed he can’t play without a competent point guard.

[Mr. Body]

It actually showed he can’t play without a competent point guard.

Maybe it showed more than one thing. Crazy, huh.

[sfernald]

One of the reasons I'm not big on Sarr is my French Foreign Fraud theory, which hasn't really failed me with regard to first round picks

The theory goes that the domestic French league is plenty good with exposure, coaching, and money that legit French prospects stay in France and get noticed and scouted appropriately.

But players who leave France for other lesser leagues do it because they're not good enough to stand out in France. So by leaving for other leagues, they get noticed and pop with that extra notoriety of, "ooh, he's french!". And that is what happens and people defend it not realizing that the most legit French guys don't need to go elsewhere. Wemby was fine in France, Batum, Fournier, Coulibaly, Gobert, Parker, if a French player in a French league is legit, he'll get a first round grade.

When a player goes somewhere else, that should be a red flag: Timothy Luwawu-Cabarot, ABA fraud. Killian Hayes: German league fraud. Ousmane Dieng, on his way to being an Australian fraud. And now Sarr. Even Cissoko, if taken in the first round, probably would have been a g-league fraud.

Just a theory I have but I think it works.

I think the verdict is still out on Ousmane Dieng. It’s really hard to find him minutes on that Okc roster, but he’s been starting to be more aggressive and make his threes. He’s only 20 and everyone knew drafting him he was going to be a big project. The problem is Okc doesn’t have time or space for projects. As it is though he’s killing it in the gleague now. Good signs. Hopefully he gets a big opportunity next year if not on Okc he’s be great on the Spurs.

[exstatic]

I think the verdict is still out on Ousmane Dieng. It’s really hard to find him minutes on that Okc roster, but he’s been starting to be more aggressive and make his threes. He’s only 20 and everyone knew drafting him he was going to be a big project. The problem is Okc doesn’t have time or space for projects. As it is though he’s killing it in the gleague now. Good signs. Hopefully he gets a big opportunity next year if not on Okc he’s be great on the Spurs.

You’d think if you spent three FRPs on a player, you’d find minutes to develop him unless he were absolute trash.

[scott]

Nuñez is a true good young player. He was the starting PG of the Spanish national team last summer at the world cup while being only 19 years old. He is a good pick and roll PG with a questionable jump shot. I haven't seen enough of him to really tell you more. BTW, he isn't playing in Spain, Ratiopharm Ulm is a German team.

What Spurs will do with their two second round picks will obviously depend a lot on the available roster spots they have. Draft and Stash might be an option but signing a two way contract might be another one. Spurs' three two way players (Bouyea, Duke Jr. and Gray) aren't really legit NBA prospects: the two-way pipeline is empty.
I think the most likely for the Lakers second round pick is a two way player.
For their own second round pick, I guess it will depend a lot on whether or not Spurs get the Raptors first round pick.

I would like Nunez as a potential draft and stash... but does that align with Nunez's plans?

Seems weird that the Spurs seem disinterested in high SRPs (having traded away #38 and #33 the last two years). My only guess is that they go into the second round with a short list of players they are interested in and don't deviate much from that if those guys aren't there.

[scott]

How does Sarr compare to Jalen Duren? Based solely on reading people's takes, seems like they are pretty similar players. But Duren was always a guy talked about late lotto, not #1 overall potentially.

[exstatic]

How does Sarr compare to Jalen Duren? Based solely on reading people's takes, seems like they are pretty similar players. But Duren was always a guy talked about late lotto, not #1 overall potentially.

Duran was always thought of as an A++ athlete. Sarr has had some chatter about his ability to finish above the rim. If you’re raw,you’d better fucking be an elite athlete.

[sfernald]

You’d think if you spent three FRPs on a player, you’d find minutes to develop him unless he were absolute trash.

The primary reason for paying three firsts for that pick was to prevent a team from moving up and getting JDub. They specially did the pick more to block other teams from nabbing JDub. In fact that’s why they didn’t risk taking him with the traded pick cause they didn’t want to lose him in case something bad happened with the trade.

So yeah well well worth it for one of the most promising young players in the league.

We won’t know the verdict on Dieng until he hits 23+.

[sfernald]

Duran was always thought of as an A++ athlete. Sarr has had some chatter about his ability to finish above the rim. If you’re raw,you’d better fucking be an elite athlete.

I personally think Sarr will end up being like a more athletic but less skilled version of Chet. I think his jumper will develop and so will his three pointer and he will be able to guard bigs down low and also guard perimeter players to the three point line. And lots and lots of help side blocks. Think 7’1” 3&D wing like prime Wiggins. Won’t ever have a crazy handle to be a playmaker but will be a terrific fit next to Wemby in his final form.

[baseline bum]

I personally think Sarr will end up being like a more athletic but less skilled version of Chet. I think his jumper will develop and so will his three pointer and he will be able to guard bigs down low and also guard perimeter players to the three point line. And lots and lots of help side blocks. Think 7’1” 3&D wing like prime Wiggins. Won’t ever have a crazy handle to be a playmaker but will be a terrific fit next to Wemby in his final form.

As an OKC fan I can't believe you'd insult Chet by comparing Sarr to him. Chet's a future MVP candidate and if it wasn't for Wemby he'd be the runaway best rookie since Doncic. I can't ever see Sarr shooting like Holmgren or having the tight handles Chet has and he's nowhere near the shotblocker Chet is either.

[exstatic]

As an OKC fan I can't believe you'd insult Chet by comparing Sarr to him. Chet's a future MVP candidate and if it wasn't for Wemby he'd be the runaway best rookie since Doncic. I can't ever see Sarr shooting like Holmgren or having the tight handles Chet has and he's nowhere near the shotblocker Chet is either.

Wow.

[sfernald]

As an OKC fan I can't believe you'd insult Chet by comparing Sarr to him. Chet's a future MVP candidate and if it wasn't for Wemby he'd be the runaway best rookie since Doncic. I can't ever see Sarr shooting like Holmgren or having the tight handles Chet has and he's nowhere near the shotblocker Chet is either.

I didn’t mean to say that he would be as good as Chet, (add “Poor Man’s Chet” in your head if you want) just that that was his archetype which is a very useful player in the league today.

[exstatic]

I didn’t mean to say that he would be as good as Chet, (add “Poor Man’s Chet” in your head if you want) just that that was his archetype which is a very useful player in the league today.

Unskilled bigs aren’t useful.

[Bruno]

But players who leave France for other lesser leagues do it because they're not good enough to stand out in France.

That's the main issue with your theory: most of these players didn't leave France because they weren't good enough:
- Ousmane Dieng was at the end of his high school cycle and had to find a new team. His agent put him in the Australian league.
- Kylian Hayes left France mostly because he was facing a 6 weeks suspension after a feud with french federation over youth NT.
- Cissoko and Sarr left France when they were 14 years old to join very high level teams in Spain.

These players weren't failing in France. However, I think french prospect were, and maybe still are, overrated by NBA teams.

I agree with you that it's worrisome to see a prospect leaving a good team/league to shine at a lower level and you have to look closely at that. Regarding Sarr, that worrisome moment was when he was 16 years old and left Real Madrid to join the overtime elite league.

What I find also worrisome is players coming from showcase teams/leagues: Mega Basket in Serbia, G-league Ignite, Overtime Elite league and Next Stars program in Australia.

[Bruno]

A player that is really intriguing me lately is Devin Carter. He is a couple of years older than most of the other players but there are a lot to like about him.
The main issue is that taking him with the Raptors pick, if it conveys, seems to be too much of a reach and he should be long gone before Spurs second round pick.

[scott]

A player that is really intriguing me lately is Devin Carter. He is a couple of years older than most of the other players but there are a lot to like about him.
The main issue is that taking him with the Raptors pick, if it conveys, seems to be too much of a reach and he should be long gone before Spurs second round pick.

I guess the good news is that 1) the Spurs have shown no hesitation in reaching if it's the guy they like and 2) in this draft, is anyone really a reach?

[Knoxxx]

Spurs should take Edey at 33 or maybe they need to trade up for him a little?

[Russ]

How does Sarr compare to Jalen Duren? Based solely on reading people's takes, seems like they are pretty similar players. But Duren was always a guy talked about late lotto, not #1 overall potentially.

Duren is bigger build and seems way more physical than Sarr.

Athleticism? Who knows. Depends on how you define it. Explosiveness?

Perhaps sometimes people confuse physicality with athleticism.

[CGD]

Spurs should take Edey at 33 or maybe they need to trade up for him a little?

Edey will get roasted on D in the NBA. He just doesn’t have the foot speed at all to hang at the next level.

[onechance87]

Spurs should take Edey at 33 or maybe they need to trade up for him a little?

edy is to slow...Rather try to get a project pg at 33

[CGD]

^ at #33 I hope they go the other way actually: a seasoned college player (not Eddy).

[TrainOfThought5]

edy is to slow...Rather try to get a project pg at 33

bronny James you say? Comes with an All NBA SF to solve that problem too.

[Dejounte]

edy is to slow...Rather try to get a project pg at 33

What makes you think a project pg at 33 will be any better than Wesley & Tre? Those two were picked around that position. What is it about the unknown that makes us believe it’s better than what we have today? We’re lucky Tre turned out to be as good as he is given his draft spot. To hope that lightning will strike twice is pointless.

[onechance87]

What makes you think a project pg at 33 will be any better than Wesley & Tre? Those two were picked around that position. What is it about the unknown that makes us believe it’s better than what we have today? We’re lucky Tre turned out to be as good as he is given his draft spot. To hope that lightning will strike twice is pointless.

This team needs a pg.If its not by trade or free agency,Its gonna have to be thru the draft.Ive seen enough of branham,wesley and tre
to know they cant help wemby or this team to the next level of being decent.

[Dejounte]

This team needs a pg.If its not by trade or free agency,Its gonna have to be thru the draft.Ive seen enough of branham,wesley and tre
to know they cant help wemby or this team to the next level of being decent.

Yeah, I know the team needs a PG— I just don’t think we should cross our fingers and think that it will come from the 33rd pick.

[Ariel]

What makes you think a project pg at 33 will be any better than Wesley & Tre? Those two were picked around that position. What is it about the unknown that makes us believe it’s better than what we have today? We’re lucky Tre turned out to be as good as he is given his draft spot. To hope that lightning will strike twice is pointless.
Blake was a swing for the fences, if you wanted to play it safe that same draft you had Nembhard, for instance (went 31).

I actually think coming away with a rotational level PG (or center) with a good 2nd rounder isn't an unrealistic scenario, the thing is: are they any better than you have (Tre), can sign as a FA (Tyus Jones, Monte Morris) or can get for a 2nd rounder (McConnell) or two (Brogdon)?

I'd like to target someone with potential to (at least) eventually be part of a 8/9 man rotation for a good team, can shoot and doesn't take years to develop, if such a guy isn't available then probably trading for a vet would be preferable.

[scott]

It would seem to me that #33 would be worth a pretty decent rotation level player... #33 last year only got us 2026 and 2028 SRPs, which seems to line up. We'll see. Doesn't seem like the Spurs want to take high SRPs.

[Mr. Body]

I'd love them to be aggressive with the 33/SRP and move it up if they can. Within reason - only using SRP packages if possible. There are going to be some nice players in the 20-30ish range. A player like Kyshawn George would be a really great get, although I think he could push lottery range once the workouts and combines hit.

Also, I think the team might draft for fit more than we think. Not a Sarr, but rather players we already have, such as guard templates. Like, would they go for a Stephon Castle, who is a multi-skill big guard who has shooting troubles when they already have Cissoko?

[jesterbobman]

My favourite late options for second round picks at 33 would be Kel'el Ware and DaRon Holmes. They've both up and down draft boards, and different state as complete players, but good options as potential shooting big bets (Ware higher upside, DaRon a better player for now).

If CMB is there at 33 I'd jump on him, but I think he'll head back or get a promise in the first. Ajay Mitchell has been my #1 target for the Lakers pick, but that's open to change, and I think anyone who appears to be a decent option is OK - can't really expect much from #43 or so.

[heyheymymy]

I thought this Mar 15 mock had some interesting selection positions

https://www.nba.com/news/bleacher-report-latest-2-round-mock-draft-and-pro-comparisons-as-tournament-play-heats-up

[heyheymymy]

Also- tankathon just updated player rankings 12 hours ago for the first time in 23 days

Walter falls a bit and Devin Carter rose into the late lottery but mostly still the same

[JPB]

However, I think french prospect were, and maybe still are, overrated by NBA teams.


I agree.

You could argue so are most of the prospects drafted in the NBA who for many of them will fail, and statiscally the percentage of draftted french players who had a succesful career is actually pretty high... (TP, Noah, Batum, Diaw, Gobert, Turiaf, Fournier (a bit) Mahinmi (decent) Wemby, (Bilal also will I beleive)...

The problem, I would say, and that's where you're right saying they're overrrated,.is how high you pick them... Taking a flyer on Hayes or Ntilikina is not that crazy in a vacuum, but 7th and 8th IS kinda crazy. that's the kind of kids spurs may have (and actually did) picked with their late 20s pick back in the day, not a lottery one.

It's' probably a mix of trend, some french players actually having an actual NBA career, and wanting to find "that next gem", the next Giannis/Luka/Jokic, from Europe. But I'm honestly surprised NBA GMs (not all anyway) don't even seem to talk with french scouts or french "specialists", or just us you know :D, about frenchies they're drafting, who would tell them to stay away or at least not pick them that high... People scratch their heads in France sometimes when they see how french prospects are evaluated in the NBA.

that's why as such sa GM, for a top pick anwyway, I would only go for fundamentally sound, high BBIQ, all around french players (like Risacher) over just raw athleticism or speed... You might not get a superstar but you have more chances at a valuable, contributing player (like Batum, Bobo...).

[thOOdee]

As someone who doesn't watch a whole lot of college basketball, why should(or shouldn't) the spurs draft Reed Sheppard, and why would drafting someone like him be any different then say a player like Jimmer Fredette?

[Mr. Body]

As someone who doesn't watch a whole lot of college basketball, why should(or shouldn't) the spurs draft Reed Sheppard, and why would drafting someone like him be any different then say a player like Jimmer Fredette?

Jimmer was more of a ball-dominant lead guard who was very high usage, primarily to shoot a lot. Sheppard is more off-ball and highly efficient when he does shoot. He's also far, far better as a defender, especially as a help defender, although questions persist about his man defense.

Other than defense, Jimmer was never able to scale down into a low-usage shooting role and Sheppard already does that.

[Splits]

Who was the Jimmer-lover on this board? Forget that assclown's handle but gdamn those were some funny times

[JPB]

I actually think coming away with a rotational level PG (or center) with a good 2nd rounder isn't an unrealistic scenario.

still possible in a vacuum but that's actually an extremely low probabliity. Around 20% of second rounders are still in the NBA 5 to 10 years later, most of them 3rd stringers or bench fillers.

This graph (from 2019) looks at how many players drafted between 5 and 10 years before were still actively playing in the NBA.


https://sportsanalytics.berkeley.edu/images/dj-pics/trash-or-treasure/graph3.png

[Mr. Body]

still possible in a vacuum but that's actually an extremely low probabliity. Around 20% of second rounders are still in the NBA 5 to 10 years later, most of them 3rd stringers or bench fillers.

This graph (from 2019) looks at how many players drafted between 5 and 10 years before were still actively playing in the NBA.


https://sportsanalytics.berkeley.edu/images/dj-pics/trash-or-treasure/graph3.png

I wonder if this has been changing from 2019. There's been a great shift in how teams draft. There have always been upside swing picks in the lottery, but it's gone into overdrive, while older, more skilled players are getting pushed later.

[Splits]

I wonder if this has been changing from 2019 like my gender identification.

[thOOdee]

Jimmer was more of a ball-dominant lead guard who was very high usage, primarily to shoot a lot. Sheppard is more off-ball and highly efficient when he does shoot. He's also far, far better as a defender, especially as a help defender, although questions persist about his man defense.

Other than defense, Jimmer was never able to scale down into a low-usage shooting role and Sheppard already does that.

Would you say his floor and ceiling could be from a jj reddick to a high klay thompson?

[Splits]

I wonder if this has been changing from 2019 like my gender identification. There's been a great shift in how much I like the shaft

[Mr. Body]

Would you say his floor and ceiling could be from a jj reddick to a high klay thompson?

Maybe a Reddick but with lead guard potential and probably better defense. Both JJ and Klay are bigger.

[spurraider21]

Who was the Jimmer-lover on this board? Forget that assclown's handle but gdamn those were some funny times
spurtacular aka derp

[$pursDynasty]

a couple of draftnicks have the Spurs drafting #1 and still pulling Reed Shepherd. I don't know if they are trolling but I live in SEC country and Reed is ok for a college player but I can't imagine any team drafting him #1 overall. He doesn't have the physical traits to dominate in the NBA, like a #1 overall should. He feels like a try hard coaches son type which in college can dominate an ultra athletic but poor BBIQ player. However in the League you have elite athletes who are seasoned vets as well who will cook that type of player. You want elite athletes that have killer instinct and high BBIQ. You might be able to increase a players BBIQ and killer instinct isn't necessary but you can't coach athleticism. Athleticism isn't the end all be all but you can't succeed in the NBA without it. There are too many smart athletic players. IOW you might be able to teach Dilly what Reed has, I do not think you can coach Reed to have what Dilly has. Not that I would take Dilly #1 either. I am kinda hoping for Sarr now.

[Splits]

spurtacular aka derp

ah yes, one of the few to get the IP banhammer because of his 100 alts

[Vienna]

A view from outside. I've been reading this thread for a few weeks. That's why I know relatively exactly who was discussed here. But also who was NOT discussed. So I'll add my 2 cents too. For weeks, practically all experts have been saying that this draft is, firstly, weak and, above all, wide open. Ok, so be it. But why is there so little movement in the mocks and why are only the same six or seven names discussed here again and again?
That’s why I bring Jared McCain on the table, who is, in my opinion, currently the most underrated player from this class. Almost all mocks have it in the 20s. The Ringer now has him at 15. My theory: he could/should climb into the top 10. Because anyone who discusses Sheppard in the Top 10 should also discuss McCain. Yes I know, the numbers……..but. McCain still suffers from a slow start when he struggled to figure out his role as a low usage off guard. Took him (and Scheyer) a month. Remove those first 8 games (when he produced 7.6 PPG) and you get numbers close to Dillingham’s.
Common sense is that Sheppard is the best shooter in the draft. Right? My theory: McCain is the second best shooter in the draft and he will be the best shooter in this draft class in the NBA. Because McCain takes (and hits) absolutely every kind of 3-pointer. Of the catch, of the dribble, step back, transition, 5 feet behind the line, etc. great stroke, quick release.
They say, McCain is undersized for a shooting guard and not an explosive athlete. Yes. But we pretty much know that Sheppard will be measured 6’1’’ in socks (and Dillingham 6’0’’). McCain will be measured between 6’2 and 6’3 in socks. Not great for a two. But he isn’t a two. Well, at least he has all the tools to be a competent combo guard, if not a lead guard, in the NBA. Good ball handler, can stop on a dime, good feel for the game, decent passer (will get better, that’s the area most players improve). Duke plays a 3 guard line up and because of the fact, that McCain is so much better off the ball than Roach and Proctor, he just doesn’t get much of a chance to play on the ball. (He showed in High School he could.). You could claim we see the Kentucky effect with a Duke guard.
Defense. McCain is not a great defender. But he isn’t a bad defender either. He is not very quick, but he is definitely very strong. And he gives effort and plays physical. That’s also a reason way he is one of the better rebounder from this class. He has those super strong tree trunk legs and he uses his strength to box out, even much bigger players.
I don’t like the comparisons that most scouting reports use. (Seth Curry, Quickley, Forbes), I see him somewhere in the mold of Jamal Murray or Tyrese Maxey.
Talking about Maxey….if someone had brought him up as a Top 10 player in 2020, everyone would have called that a reach. Not a true PG, strong, but to small for a SG, not explosive enough, below the rim etc. Hindsight tells he was in fact Top 5.
Last but not least……McCain is smart. I mean very very smart. (4.0 GPA in high school). He is very eloquent, outstanding interviews. Charismatic. Very positive presence. Great teammate, great leader.
Would I consider him at pick 7. You bet. As much as Dillingham and Sheppard. And I would pick him over Topic anytime.

[Mr. Body]

a couple of draftnicks have the Spurs drafting #1 and still pulling Reed Shepherd. I don't know if they are trolling but I live in SEC country and Reed is ok for a college player but I can't imagine any team drafting him #1 overall. He doesn't have the physical traits to dominate in the NBA, like a #1 overall should. He feels like a try hard coaches son type which in college can dominate an ultra athletic but poor BBIQ player. However in the League you have elite athletes who are seasoned vets as well who will cook that type of player. You want elite athletes that have killer instinct and high BBIQ. You might be able to increase a players BBIQ and killer instinct isn't necessary but you can't coach athleticism. Athleticism isn't the end all be all but you can't succeed in the NBA without it. There are too many smart athletic players. IOW you might be able to teach Dilly what Reed has, I do not think you can coach Reed to have what Dilly has. Not that I would take Dilly #1 either. I am kinda hoping for Sarr now.

Sheppard had a fantastic game against Tennessee and the world went out of its mind. He's promising, to be sure, but those physical limitations give pause. I also can't help noticing that when playing together it's his fellow freshman that keeps running the show and is usually the one heroically trying to create runs or bring the team back from the brink. There's also a vacuum up top in this draft and collectively we keep trying to put someone there.

[Mr. Body]

A view from outside. I've been reading this thread for a few weeks. That's why I know relatively exactly who was discussed here. But also who was NOT discussed. So I'll add my 2 cents too. For weeks, practically all experts have been saying that this draft is, firstly, weak and, above all, wide open. Ok, so be it. But why is there so little movement in the mocks and why are only the same six or seven names discussed here again and again?
That’s why I bring Jared McCain on the table, who is, in my opinion, currently the most underrated player from this class...

I admit I've only watched McCain tangentially when mostly watching for Filipowski. I've heard that McCain is super-quirky and smart, as you say, which I think would contribute greatly to team culture.

The strikes on him, as far as I can tell:

- He seems one-dimensional, mostly an off-ball shooter. Now, that's great! But limits what he can do.
- As you say, his defense isn't really great.
- He's a year older than most freshmen. This tends to get overrated in my mind, though. (Sheppard will be 20 shortly after the draft, six months before Dillingham. Does this really matter?)
- Duke guards haven't been great. Not fair to him, but a reason for the 'brand'

Good notes:

- Duke has several ballhandlers, so his chances to facilitate may simply be curtailed and not shown yet
- Fantastic ft%
- Rebounds pretty well for a guard, something we need

[$pursDynasty]

Thanks for the response Mr Body, I feel the same way when it comes to Dilly and Reed. This is a not great obvious choice draft. Speaking of which everyone is overly excited about next year's Cooper Flag draft. I don't follow High School kids and barely knew who Wemby was before last year but why is everyone so enamored with Flagg? Is he an American Luka? And even if he were how could you tell because in Europe Luka was torching adult pros, torching fellow high schoolers isn't the same thing. He seems to be the next big thing but I am curious as to why he is projected to be all that? Is he like a pg, or sg or sf or pf. I truly don't know but if he were a center I am sure I would know that.

[exstatic]

A view from outside. I've been reading this thread for a few weeks. That's why I know relatively exactly who was discussed here. But also who was NOT discussed. So I'll add my 2 cents too. For weeks, practically all experts have been saying that this draft is, firstly, weak and, above all, wide open. Ok, so be it. But why is there so little movement in the mocks and why are only the same six or seven names discussed here again and again?
That’s why I bring Jared McCain on the table, who is, in my opinion, currently the most underrated player from this class. Almost all mocks have it in the 20s. The Ringer now has him at 15. My theory: he could/should climb into the top 10. Because anyone who discusses Sheppard in the Top 10 should also discuss McCain. Yes I know, the numbers……..but. McCain still suffers from a slow start when he struggled to figure out his role as a low usage off guard. Took him (and Scheyer) a month. Remove those first 8 games (when he produced 7.6 PPG) and you get numbers close to Dillingham’s.
Common sense is that Sheppard is the best shooter in the draft. Right? My theory: McCain is the second best shooter in the draft and he will be the best shooter in this draft class in the NBA. Because McCain takes (and hits) absolutely every kind of 3-pointer. Of the catch, of the dribble, step back, transition, 5 feet behind the line, etc. great stroke, quick release.
They say, McCain is undersized for a shooting guard and not an explosive athlete. Yes. But we pretty much know that Sheppard will be measured 6’1’’ in socks (and Dillingham 6’0’’). McCain will be measured between 6’2 and 6’3 in socks. Not great for a two. But he isn’t a two. Well, at least he has all the tools to be a competent combo guard, if not a lead guard, in the NBA. Good ball handler, can stop on a dime, good feel for the game, decent passer (will get better, that’s the area most players improve). Duke plays a 3 guard line up and because of the fact, that McCain is so much better off the ball than Roach and Proctor, he just doesn’t get much of a chance to play on the ball. (He showed in High School he could.). You could claim we see the Kentucky effect with a Duke guard.
Defense. McCain is not a great defender. But he isn’t a bad defender either. He is not very quick, but he is definitely very strong. And he gives effort and plays physical. That’s also a reason way he is one of the better rebounder from this class. He has those super strong tree trunk legs and he uses his strength to box out, even much bigger players.
I don’t like the comparisons that most scouting reports use. (Seth Curry, Quickley, Forbes), I see him somewhere in the mold of Jamal Murray or Tyrese Maxey.
Talking about Maxey….if someone had brought him up as a Top 10 player in 2020, everyone would have called that a reach. Not a true PG, strong, but to small for a SG, not explosive enough, below the rim etc. Hindsight tells he was in fact Top 5.
Last but not least……McCain is smart. I mean very very smart. (4.0 GPA in high school). He is very eloquent, outstanding interviews. Charismatic. Very positive presence. Great teammate, great leader.
Would I consider him at pick 7. You bet. As much as Dillingham and Sheppard. And I would pick him over Topic anytime.

My thought is if you’re shooting a ton of 3s, but only dishing 1.8 dimes, you’re not a PG, you’re an undersized SG.

[Splits]

A view from outside. I've been reading this thread for a few weeks. That's why I know relatively exactly who was discussed here. But also who was NOT discussed. So I'll add my 2 cents too. For weeks, practically all experts have been saying that this draft is, firstly, weak and, above all, wide open. Ok, so be it. But why is there so little movement in the mocks and why are only the same six or seven names discussed here again and again?
That’s why I bring Jared McCain on the table, who is, in my opinion, currently the most underrated player from this class. Almost all mocks have it in the 20s. The Ringer now has him at 15. My theory: he could/should climb into the top 10. Because anyone who discusses Sheppard in the Top 10 should also discuss McCain. Yes I know, the numbers……..but. McCain still suffers from a slow start when he struggled to figure out his role as a low usage off guard. Took him (and Scheyer) a month. Remove those first 8 games (when he produced 7.6 PPG) and you get numbers close to Dillingham’s.
Common sense is that Sheppard is the best shooter in the draft. Right? My theory: McCain is the second best shooter in the draft and he will be the best shooter in this draft class in the NBA. Because McCain takes (and hits) absolutely every kind of 3-pointer. Of the catch, of the dribble, step back, transition, 5 feet behind the line, etc. great stroke, quick release.
They say, McCain is undersized for a shooting guard and not an explosive athlete. Yes. But we pretty much know that Sheppard will be measured 6’1’’ in socks (and Dillingham 6’0’’). McCain will be measured between 6’2 and 6’3 in socks. Not great for a two. But he isn’t a two. Well, at least he has all the tools to be a competent combo guard, if not a lead guard, in the NBA. Good ball handler, can stop on a dime, good feel for the game, decent passer (will get better, that’s the area most players improve). Duke plays a 3 guard line up and because of the fact, that McCain is so much better off the ball than Roach and Proctor, he just doesn’t get much of a chance to play on the ball. (He showed in High School he could.). You could claim we see the Kentucky effect with a Duke guard.
Defense. McCain is not a great defender. But he isn’t a bad defender either. He is not very quick, but he is definitely very strong. And he gives effort and plays physical. That’s also a reason way he is one of the better rebounder from this class. He has those super strong tree trunk legs and he uses his strength to box out, even much bigger players.
I don’t like the comparisons that most scouting reports use. (Seth Curry, Quickley, Forbes), I see him somewhere in the mold of Jamal Murray or Tyrese Maxey.
Talking about Maxey….if someone had brought him up as a Top 10 player in 2020, everyone would have called that a reach. Not a true PG, strong, but to small for a SG, not explosive enough, below the rim etc. Hindsight tells he was in fact Top 5.
Last but not least……McCain is smart. I mean very very smart. (4.0 GPA in high school). He is very eloquent, outstanding interviews. Charismatic. Very positive presence. Great teammate, great leader.
Would I consider him at pick 7. You bet. As much as Dillingham and Sheppard. And I would pick him over Topic anytime.

My thoughts that are you should learn how to type in distinct sentences. Use the <<return>> button to create paragraphs.

Nobody can read this wall of text except diehards like Mr. TransBody

[The Truth #6]

McCain. Interesting thoughts. Duke guards rarely get discussed, but perhaps because there's so many of them.

He does look like a classic Spurs player, a Primo type.

Here's an interesting profile:

https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/jared-mccain-is-far-more-than-just

[Mr. Body]

Thanks for the response Mr Body, I feel the same way when it comes to Dilly and Reed. This is a not great obvious choice draft. Speaking of which everyone is overly excited about next year's Cooper Flag draft. I don't follow High School kids and barely knew who Wemby was before last year but why is everyone so enamored with Flagg? Is he an American Luka? And even if he were how could you tell because in Europe Luka was torching adult pros, torching fellow high schoolers isn't the same thing. He seems to be the next big thing but I am curious as to why he is projected to be all that? Is he like a pg, or sg or sf or pf. I truly don't know but if he were a center I am sure I would know that.

Flagg seems like a big, athletic, toolsy SF with potentially great defense, competitive attitude, (possibly cocky), who right now isn't a great shooter or scorer other than due to his physical gifts.

[DAF86]

McCain. Interesting thoughts. Duke guards rarely get discussed, but perhaps because there's so many of them.

He does look like a classic Spurs player, a Primo type.

Here's an interesting profile:

https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/jared-mccain-is-far-more-than-just

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTQrcO8s1uYP1nkJLSsa9CaycN3g4KJl CJ8IvRoNw4jXg&s

[CorrectCrusader]

Is everyone convinced that we're trading the second rounders? I'd love to take Zach Edey at 32 if he's available

[scott]

Is everyone convinced that we're trading the second rounders? I'd love to take Zach Edey at 32 if he's available

I think it depends A LOT on two main things (of course there are other factors at play too, but these are the two biggest variables IMO):

1) Does the TOR pick convey?
2) Do we make a trade for someone like Trae where we have multiple players going out for one player coming in?

The Spurs seemed disinclined to take high SRPs the last two years (trading away #33 and #38). In the case where we traded #38, we had just picked 3 other guys - so that made sense. Maybe trading #33 was just a recognition of the continued limited bandwidth to properly develop youth. Maybe that changes this year? I also get the sense that for SRPs, the Spurs have a very narrow list of targets and if those aren't available they prefer to just punt rather than take on a project they really aren't that keen on (which is a philosophy I rather like).

[onechance87]

Is everyone convinced that we're trading the second rounders? I'd love to take Zach Edey at 32 if he's available

history shows we dont use em....Will most likely sell it.But guess will see.

[exstatic]

Is everyone convinced that we're trading the second rounders? I'd love to take Zach Edey at 32 if he's available

We could have as many as 6 FRPS this draft and next. That’s a lot of guaranteed contracts and roster spots.

[spurraider21]

can people stop talking about Boban Edey as if he's worth considering? :lol

[Mr. Body]

can people stop talking about Boban Edey as if he's worth considering? :lol

Didn't Embiid drop like 70 points on us? Thinking about someone with bulk isn't a bad idea.

[Biggems]

If he falls to the 2nd round, I would be happy with Tyler Kolek. He has done a very nice job the last two seasons at Marquette. I feel he would be an absolute steal in the 2nd round.

[Mr. Body]

An issue with pulling in rookies is roster spots. I feel a number of players are in liminal places of uncertainty. Not that they're good or bad, but whether their advancement should be continued.

Blake Wesley
Malaki Branham
Charles Bassey
Dom Barlow
Julian Champagnie

I realize most of this crazy place thinks all these players are worthless and should be shot in a ditch, but for two problems, 1) there are no current replacements, even if they're not great, and 2) I doubt the team is as down on them as the asylum members.

That said, of course I don't think Champ has a long future here beyond a deep bench backup. Bassey is a super question mark. He might have really altered the trajectory of the season, at least a little bit.

My guess is next season (or part of season) will determine whether to cut bait on some of those guys. Do I feel any of them are championship caliber? No. Do I feel they can possibly contribute to getting us into the playoffs? Yes. They're gonna have to until we replace any stragglers, and that's gonna take time. Meantime, it's about building a winning culture somehow and getting Ws.

So, anyway... I think there are types the Spurs will be looking for -- point, wing, backup big -- and we sort of have backup bigs. Throwing in more than two rookies this summer probably gums things up too much. Can we say a big drafted at 33 is actually going to be better than Bassey? No, not really. This is one reason I think they wouldn't have taken Trayce Jackson-Davis last year, because they believed in Barlow and wanted to see where he was going.

If they don't get the Toronto pick (or trade it away), then I see them taking the 33 pick. I think they're gonna boot the SRP that is currently 43 (LAL). (Of course they could what they did last year and trade out the better one, but either way.)

[spurraider21]

Didn't Embiid drop like 70 points on us? Thinking about someone with bulk isn't a bad idea.
embiid had 8 other games this season scoring 40+

he scores on anybody and everybody. edey wouldnt fare any better. if wemby was giving him the elbow jumper, you can get your ass edey will :lol

if you wanted to sell me on a big man defender its Clingan. he at least looks like he's functionally mobile. edey just looks like boban. id rather take ivisic than edey since he seems to have somewhat modern nba skills

[scott]

An issue with pulling in rookies is roster spots. I feel a number of players are in liminal places of uncertainty. Not that they're good or bad, but whether their advancement should be continued.

Blake Wesley
Malaki Branham
Charles Bassey
Dom Barlow
Julian Champagnie

I realize most of this crazy place thinks all these players are worthless and should be shot in a ditch, but for two problems, 1) there are no current replacements, even if they're not great, and 2) I doubt the team is as down on them as the asylum members.

That said, of course I don't think Champ has a long future here beyond a deep bench backup. Bassey is a super question mark. He might have really altered the trajectory of the season, at least a little bit.

My guess is next season (or part of season) will determine whether to cut bait on some of those guys. Do I feel any of them are championship caliber? No. Do I feel they can possibly contribute to getting us into the playoffs? Yes. They're gonna have to until we replace any stragglers, and that's gonna take time. Meantime, it's about building a winning culture somehow and getting Ws.

So, anyway... I think there are types the Spurs will be looking for -- point, wing, backup big -- and we sort of have backup bigs. Throwing in more than two rookies this summer probably gums things up too much. Can we say a big drafted at 33 is actually going to be better than Bassey? No, not really. This is one reason I think they wouldn't have taken Trayce Jackson-Davis last year, because they believed in Barlow and wanted to see where he was going.

If they don't get the Toronto pick (or trade it away), then I see them taking the 33 pick. I think they're gonna boot the SRP that is currently 43 (LAL). (Of course they could what they did last year and trade out the better one, but either way.)

Thanks for the post, Mr. Body. I agree that the Spurs are at a crossroads with these players specifically, especially with what at this point we can only assume will be an upcoming influx of new talent, by virtue of all the picks we have coming up. That necessarily puts in a position were we can no longer afford to be as patient with prospects, for better or worse.

With the players you mentioned, whether fair or not, I think the following circumstances apply:

Blake - largely depends on what other PG talent is brought in. I think most of us would agree he is not ready to be a true backup PG on a team that is play-in contender or better. I do think there is plenty of space for him to keep developing as the third PG, but a lot of that depends on other decisions that don’t involve Blake. It appears the Spurs view Tre as an important part of the corporate culture going forward. If the Spurs made a move for another PG (whether a big move like Trae or something smaller like Brogdon or Tyus), AND drafted a Topic or Dilly, then there just isn’t any room for Blake and he’s the odd man out.

Bassey - I am a Bassey truther with personal bias towards him, so that should be said up front. But I think he can be a very useful player as the third big or even the backup C. He’s has demonstrated elite rebounding and rim protection skills. He has shown some offensive flashes, but seems to be on a tight leash. His biggest problem, and it’s a big one, he can’t stay healthy. But he is on a cheap, non-guaranteed deal, which is helpful. Unless you decide to stick with Collins AND take Filipowski or Clingan with the TOR pick (for some reason), I don’t see a need to move on from him other than concerns about his health.

Barlow - Kind of a similar case as Bassey. He’ll be on a cheap deal, shows potential, and doesn’t do much harm as a third stringer. He clearly does not fit with Wemby (where Bassey + Wemby combos actually seemed to have some promise), but still has usefulness on the deep bench.

Champ - similar case above, but now Champ has had a taste of being a starter. Can he transition back to a role more appropriate to him, which is 3rd string SF? Ideally our SF rotation is Draft Pick/Keldon or New Vet/Draft Pick. If Champ can transition back to a third string role, he’s another cheap, non-guaranteed guy who fits well on the deep bench.

Branham - I left him for last on purpose, because I think his case is a little different. I think he is more advanced than Blake or Champ and isn’t necessarily appropriate for a third string role, but it’s also not entirely clear to me that he is good enough or the right archetype for the role he best fits (6th/7th man, bench scorer). We need him to be a Cam Thomas-like scorer for us to be most effective, but he’s just not that good and I don’t get the sense that he ever will be. If we were okay with tanking for a few years, I wouldn’t give up on him yet because he can still develop, but I fear that we will want to move faster than his timeline will allow in the role we need him to play.

[Mr. Body]

scott, nice thoughts.

I think Wesley will get drafted over before long, perhaps next year, unless they take Castle this year. Blake may have a nice career as a rotation defender, but the Spurs will likely have enough drafts to get that template or better and he doesn't provide enough otherwise - not believing in his jumpshot, for example. But he's come a long way since the beginning of the year.

Champ, I think, knows he's a rotation player at best and will be content going back onto the bench somewhere. That's just my impression. He's not a priority in any way, but seems to have proved that he will stick in the league for a while.

Bassey's real issue is his health. Two years in a row with leg problems, which doesn't bode well. When he did play, there was a lot to like.

Barlow, my guess is he's a rotation guy somewhere, but also needs more development. It's clear he's not there, but has also come a very long way. A lot of physical attributes, a great attitude, and developing skills. I think he'll tap out/plateau at some point, but not sure where that is. Can he be a true rotation guy on a playoff team? Right now it's hard to imagine, but who knows.

Branham is better than many here think, but it's been a rough road. More than any other player, I feel like the work he's putting in is bubbling beneath the surface and breaking through here or there. I also am not quite sure what his role is going to be and whether it happens with the Spurs, but if he can figure it out and play confidently, there's a real player here.

[CorrectCrusader]

can people stop talking about Boban Edey as if he's worth considering? :lol

Better than Zach Collins

[Mr. Body]

Better than Zach Collins

ha ha giggle snort you da man upvotes i just shit myself

[Vienna]

Some thoughts about the Spurs pick.
What is the most obvious need? Keep Wemby happy, that’s it!
And this does include the Wembanyama family, who obviously play an important role in Victor’s life.
(Spurs learned it the hard way, what role family can play in a player decision. Of course I’m not comparing Uncle to the Wembanyamas.)
I remember that Bruno pointed out the close ties of the Webanyama and the Risacher families, but this went more or less unnoticed on this board.
This draft offers no sure fire home run, no matter if they pick at 1 or 3 or 6. Topic or Sarr or Dillingham or whoever will be the same risk to bust like Risacher.
But can the Spurs risk to NOT DRAFT Risacher, assuming they had the chance, when there is also the risk that he shines with an other team, while the own pick busts?
What will this scenario do to the relationship of Wemby with the Spurs? Will he trust their decisions any longer?
If they draft Risacher, who fills many needs anyhow, and he fails, the Spurs will still have brought in the player and friend Wemby had wished they will bring in.
Btw. ….in a different scenario, if Risacher is off the board, I can see the Spurs try to trade for Coulibaly. For similar reasons and because he as well would fit the need.
(If he was a better shooter, this would be a no brainer.).
Would the Wizards be willing to talk this trade? Let’s say the Raptors pick plus Branham for Coulibaly?
(the Wizards will ask for the Spurs pick, but the Spurs don’t do this and will sweeten the deal with either another pick, maybe 33, or a young player).

[exstatic]

Some thoughts about the Spurs pick.
What is the most obvious need? Keep Wemby happy, that’s it!
And this does include the Wembanyama family, who obviously play an important role in Victor’s life.
(Spurs learned it the hard way, what role family can play in a player decision. Of course I’m not comparing Uncle to the Wembanyamas.)
I remember that Bruno pointed out the close ties of the Webanyama and the Risacher families, but this went more or less unnoticed on this board.
This draft offers no sure fire home run, no matter if they pick at 1 or 3 or 6. Topic or Sarr or Dillingham or whoever will be the same risk to bust like Risacher.
But can the Spurs risk to NOT DRAFT Risacher, assuming they had the chance, when there is also the risk that he shines with an other team, while the own pick busts?
What will this scenario do to the relationship of Wemby with the Spurs? Will he trust their decisions any longer?
If they draft Risacher, who fills many needs anyhow, and he fails, the Spurs will still have brought in the player and friend Wemby had wished they will bring in.
Btw. ….in a different scenario, if Risacher is off the board, I can see the Spurs try to trade for Coulibaly. For similar reasons and because he as well would fit the need.
(If he was a better shooter, this would be a no brainer.).
Would the Wizards be willing to talk this trade? Let’s say the Raptors pick plus Branham for Coulibaly?
(the Wizards will ask for the Spurs pick, but the Spurs don’t do this and will sweeten the deal with either another pick, maybe 33, or a young player).

Kawhi is a hood rat sociopath whose father was murdered by gangsters. His sister murdered an old lady in a casino bathroom for the contents of her purse. To say this family is disfunctional would be an understatement. His life experienced is both figuratively and literally half a world away from Victors. I’m sure the Spurs are keeping the Wembanyamas in the loop on The Plan, and I think Risacher is on their radar, but if he isn’t at the top of their draft board when their pick goes on the clock, they won’t pick him.

[Mr. Body]

I think Wemby is smart enough to know that picking players just because of personal relationships isn't the way to go. I'm sure Risacher has and will be thoroughly scouted and having a recommendation as to his personality is fantastic, but I don't think it's an automatic pick for that reason.

[ambchang]

I just don’t understand why people would parallel wemby with nephew. The spurs won 67 games back then. The raptors won a title for Pete’s sake. Nephew was going to LA no matter what. Unless the spurs were willing to la there was no keeping him. It was obvious. The only thing the spurs should have done was trading him when he was asking for it behind close doors (which I assumed he did).

Wembys situation is closer to Lebrons first stint with Cleveland. Only the spurs are even worse and the rules have shortened the timeline with wemby having to be on the spurs.

[The Truth #6]

With our pick, I'm assuming Risacher, Cody Williams, Stephon Castle, or Buzelis. If we get the Toronto pick, basically I'm good with Knecht, and if not then Jared McCain. His shooting is so good, and we have to get a reliable shooter in my opinion. I'm sort of of higher on Jared than Reed for short guys that can shoot. Jared is probably undervalued and may have some upside as point guard, a position he played in HS, I believe.

Knecht also played point in HS, which is helpful as well in their learning curve.

[Kevin]

Disagree that Bassey's a good fit next to Wemby. When Bassey went down with injury Wemby was still playing out of position at PF. Now that Wemby moved to C him and Bassey will look unplayable together on offense.

[CorrectCrusader]

I think there's a high likelyhood that one of Blake Wesley or Malaki Branham is not on this team next year

[spurraider21]

I think there's a high likelyhood that one of Blake Wesley or Malaki Branham is not on this team next year
their 3rd year salaries are already guaranteed. the question is whether they will elect to exercise their 4th year options before the start of the season. given their small salaries its still pretty likely imo

[duncan2150]

I think there's a high likelyhood that one of Blake Wesley or Malaki Branham is not on this team next year

With what pop said about malaki he's 100% with the team next year unless he is traded, for wesley we'll see.

[The Truth #6]

Mamu and Bassey more likely gone than Blake or Branham. Not to mention Champ if it came to it.

[Bruno]

To me, and without considering trades, there are only 6 "must be kept" players for next season because of their level and/or contract: Wembanyama, Vassell, Keldon Johnson, Sochan, Tre Jones and Zach Collins. The 9 other players could be waived or not re-signed to open roster spots.
It seems Pop likes Branham, so it may be down to 8 roster spot that can easily be opened but it's still a lot.

My point is that, even if they have the Raptors pick, Spurs can easily add a third rookie with their early second round pick. They have enough roster space to do it. However, I think they would only do it if they really like that third player.

[TD 21]

^Pop's bizarre inclusion of Branham (quite possibly the worst rotation player in the league) as a player not named Vassell who has, to paraphrase, "got it" and "taken the next step" is the latest indication of how senile and out of touch he is.

The second biggest problem here (biggest is rigidity) is they've flat overvalued their own talent. They still don't seem to get that they've gifted a bunch of replacement players prominent roles.

[Mr. Body]

^Pop's bizarre inclusion of Branham (quite possibly the worst rotation player in the league) as a player not named Vassell who has, to paraphrase, "got it" and "taken the next step" is the latest indication of how senile and out of touch he is.


Or, and this may seem wild, they know far, far more about basketball than you ever will.

[alfahdlan]

https://ukathletics.com/news/2024/03/18/reed-sheppard-named-usbwa-wayman-tisdale-national-freshman-of-the-year/

[TD 21]

Or, and this may seem wild, they know far, far more about basketball than you ever will.

Then maybe they should learn and adhere to analytics to interpret what they're seeing because their "eye test" is obviously failing them.

But hey, who cares about impacting winning, when you can target subservient choir boys and still have old, miserable apologists like yourself absolve them.

[rankingtear]

With what pop said about malaki he's 100% with the team next year unless he is traded, for wesley we'll see.

What did pop say?

[Knoxxx]

https://ukathletics.com/news/2024/03/18/reed-sheppard-named-usbwa-wayman-tisdale-national-freshman-of-the-year/

Use your words, sir?

[CorrectCrusader]

Use your words, sir?

Reed Shepphard good

[alfahdlan]

Use your words, sir?
Sheppard wins Tisdale Award as Freshman of the Year by basketball writers along with his SEC Freshman of the Year and a member of all-conference second team. Previous winners were Anthony Davis, John Wall, Brandon Miller, Cade Cuddingham, Jabari Smith, Zion, Trae Young etc. Good company, I guess.

[duncan2150]

What did pop say?

https://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/1768781002459976043

[DAF86]

Or, and this may seem wild, they know far, far more about basketball than you ever will.

Michael Jordan is the GOAT, owned a team and was a GM. Despite all that, I'm pretty damn sure I could build a better roster than he ever has, tbh. Just because people are in positions of power, it doesn't mean that they really know more than a hardcore fan, tbh. At least not in talent evaluation.

[exstatic]

Michael Jordan is the GOAT, owned a team and was a GM. Despite all that, I'm pretty damn sure I could build a better roster than he ever has, tbh. Just because people are in positions of power, it doesn't mean that they really know more than a hardcore fan, tbh. At least not in talent evaluation.

MJ is much more a case of someone thinking that if they are great at one thing, they’re great at anything they try. He never had a handle on it, and everyone knew he sucked. Most who follow basketball nationwide would value PATFOs opinion over yours 7 days a week, and twice on Sunday, and chastise your arrogance for thinking you know better.

[DAF86]

MJ is much more a case of someone thinking that if they are great at one thing, they’re great at anything they try. He never had a handle on it, and everyone knew he sucked. Most who follow basketball nationwide would value PATFOs opinion over yours 7 days a week, and twice on Sunday, and chastise your arrogance for thinking you know better.

I don't think I know better in most things, but I do know that I know better in some things (I even have the evidence to prove it). Nobody is right on every single thing. So it is dumb to act as if PATFO's word is gospel on every single decision they take. Heck, my mother once gave me a better medical diagnosis than a certified doctor.

[Knoxxx]

Can we get him at the 33 pick? Sheppard that is.

[alfahdlan]

Long gone, I guess.

[alfahdlan]

Hornets might be eyeing him to pair with Ball

[DAF86]

Can we get him at the 33 pick? Sheppard that is.

lol no. Some mocks have him being taken even at #1 overall.

[Mr. Body]

Can we get him at the 33 pick? Sheppard that is.

Maybe in the MLB draft.

[toki9]

Current mock from The Athletic's Sam Vecenie:

1. Risacher (Blazers)
2. Sarr (Wizards)
3. Buzelis (Pistons)
4. Sheppard (Grizzlies)
5. Topic (Spurs)
6. Castle (Hornets)
7. Williams (Spurs via Raptors)
8. Holland (Rockets via Nets)
9. Dillingham (Jazz)
10. Salaun (Hawks)
11. Clingan (Thunder via Rockets)
12. Knecht (Bulls)
13. Collier (Pelicans via Lakers)
14. Walter (Blazers via Warriors)

[TD 21]

I don't think I know better in most things, but I do know that I know better in some things (I even have the evidence to prove it). Nobody is right on every single thing. So it is dumb to act as if PATFO's word is gospel on every single decision they take. Heck, my mother once gave me a better medical diagnosis than a certified doctor.

It's not even about that. What the apologists either don't get or fail to acknowledge is, it's about them vs the other 29 teams and their results post '17 have been lousy.

What's worse, a lot of it is making the same mistake(s) incessantly. Of course, the first step to change is to humble oneself, but they're too busy thinking they know better because they lucked into an all-time player and core 7-27 years ago.

[exstatic]

Current mock from The Athletic's Sam Vecenie:

1. Risacher (Blazers)
2. Sarr (Wizards)
3. Buzelis (Pistons)
4. Sheppard (Grizzlies)
5. Topic (Spurs)
6. Castle (Hornets)
7. Williams (Spurs via Raptors)
8. Holland (Rockets via Nets)
9. Dillingham (Jazz)
10. Salaun (Hawks)
11. Clingan (Thunder via Rockets)
12. Knecht (Bulls)
13. Collier (Pelicans via Lakers)
14. Walter (Blazers via Warriors)

Does he have a lottery crystal ball? Because those aren’t even remotely the current team positions.

[Mr. Body]

Current mock from The Athletic's Sam Vecenie:

1. Risacher (Blazers)
2. Sarr (Wizards)
3. Buzelis (Pistons)
4. Sheppard (Grizzlies)
5. Topic (Spurs)
6. Castle (Hornets)
7. Williams (Spurs via Raptors)
8. Holland (Rockets via Nets)
9. Dillingham (Jazz)
10. Salaun (Hawks)
11. Clingan (Thunder via Rockets)
12. Knecht (Bulls)
13. Collier (Pelicans via Lakers)
14. Walter (Blazers via Warriors)

The picks and order are what I could imagine happening on draft night, whether by those teams or otherwise. I see Buzelis moving up during workouts. I think Castle will be appreciated more by GMs than fanbases confused by what he does for UConn. I can see Williams dropping a bit but some team not wanting to miss just in case, and Dillingham staying mid- to late-lottery.

[toki9]

Does he have a lottery crystal ball? Because those aren’t even remotely the current team positions.

Vecenie's explanation: "I used the NBA standings as of March 14, but to spice things up, I did one lottery spin. It ended with the Portland Trail Blazers getting the No. 1 overall pick and the Memphis Grizzlies moving into the top four."