2024 NBA Draft Thread

[Mr. Body]

Stephon Castle looked good today. He's a tough defender and sees the game well. UConn destroyed Xavier so it was a fairly short outing and not terribly competitive, but he was a big part of the shellacking.

[BackHome]

Yeah, I like Tre but definitely want and need an upgrade at the PG position- If we don’t go Topic then it is Risacher or Cody for the SF position with our pick. If we happen to get Raptors pick well that could go a bunch of ways - Kyle, Salaun, Castle, and Dily

Just note that all of these picks will need serious G League play and I don’t see much they will offer us for 25 season

[TD 21]

I hope they are after forwards and wings (Sarr, Risacher, Buzelis, Williams or Salaun), the chance of getting a high level guard on the market or FA is greater than getting a forward (and it would probably cost less anyway)

That's my point. Don't go wing because of this, go wing because its the best perceived player.

They're so flush in draft capital, they should be able to acquire, at minimum, a top starter (cut below All-Star) at whatever position going forward.

[onechance87]

Stephon Castle looked good today. He's a tough defender and sees the game well. UConn destroyed Xavier so it was a fairly short outing and not terribly competitive, but he was a big part of the shellacking.

what about tyrese proctor....Seems to be gettin it together

[TD 21]

what about tyrese proctor....Seems to be gettin it together

I still think he'll be in the mix for them, even if he ends up not being in a projected range where they pick.

Again, with this much draft capital, it's time to start manipulating the draft and not just sitting back waiting for their picks.

[Mr. Body]

what about tyrese proctor....Seems to be gettin it together

Yeah he's playing really well lately. Could start moving into the lottery soon.

[BackHome]

[QUOTE=TD 21;11021494]I still think he'll be in the mix for them, even if he ends up not being in a projected range where they pick.

Again, with this much draft capital, it's time to start manipulating the draft and not just sitting back waiting for their picks.[/QUOT

I would use second round picks but no way am I using any of our first rounders as I will save that for 2025 which looks to be a much better class.

[mo7888]

Hypothetical:

Who do you take at #4 if:
1) Sarr, Topic, Rasicher are gone, and
2) there is no TOR pick?

Williams, Salaun, or Buzelis...

[alfahdlan]

https://www.kentucky.com/sports/college/kentucky-sports/uk-basketball-men/article284347534.html

nice read.

[Seventyniner]

https://www.kentucky.com/sports/college/kentucky-sports/uk-basketball-men/article284347534.html

nice read.

Just for the hell of it I did a single lottery sim on Tankathon after reading this.

https://i.ibb.co/wJbdqzf/mock-draft-sim.jpg

[alfahdlan]

This is my ideal Toronto-pick

[Thomas82]

Just for the hell of it I did a single lottery sim on Tankathon after reading this.

https://i.ibb.co/wJbdqzf/mock-draft-sim.jpg

That would be amazing!!

[onechance87]

Williams, Salaun, or Buzelis...

Who is the better rebounder and defender between them

[mo7888]

Who is the better rebounder and defender between them

Buzelis has better rebounding numbers, but i don't put a ton of value on ignite based stats... Salaun and Williams are pretty similar. I see Salaun more as a 4 and Williams and Buzelis as more of 3's, however, if they are playing beside Sochan either would be fine because he can guard either spot.

[spurraider21]

Hypothetical:

Who do you take at #4 if:
1) Sarr, Topic, Rasicher are gone, and
2) there is no TOR pick?
thats tough without the TOR pick. my 2 favorites right now are Cody Williams and Rob Dillingham. assuming we had the TOR pick, i think you could read the tea leaves and try to play it to land both, or even trading some capital to move up and secure both

but with just 1 pick... probably Dilly. we've seen what a massive difference a point guard makes for Wemby, now we gotta crank that up to 11 by adding great outside shotmaking as well

[spurraider21]

Hopefully they don't get fooled into thinking they're fine for a while with a Jones/Wesley PG tandem and base their decision to go wing (especially ones who supposedly fit the point forward or connector archetype, like Williams and Buzelis) on a combination of that and their clear preference to avoid having a heliocentric lead guard . . but they probably will.
point guards are usually the ones who struggle the most out of the gate. this year, scoot off to a slow start. amen barely playing. black has defended fine but still really needs to learn the ropes. bufkin in gleague. hood-schifino struggling. cason wallace is playing well, though not really playing as an initiator much at all yet. the best point guard from last year's draft right now is what, Nembhard? from 2021, Cade has been fine, but nothing else from the PG position.

i think even with dillingham, you dont operate under the assumption that he's coming in as a day 1 starter beating out a solid NBA vet like Tre. he gets a year to learn, and then you probably end up letting Tre walk at the end of his 2 year deal if you feel good enough about Wesley by that point. and you can always find a cheap vet to be the PG3

[duncan2150]

https://twitter.com/draftpoint2024/status/1751330894462296369

[Mr. Body]

To me the upgrade priority is small forward. We have point guard settled at least for now. Calls for some superstar or even an All-Star at the position place too much need there. Tre is more than fine. I love Julian, he just doesn't provide a lot as a starter.

Whether it's through the draft or otherwise, that's my key right now, although there are other needs to address as well. This draft has a number of SFs that will be available, each bringing a different package of value in Buzelis, Holland, Ruzacher, Williams.

[4lifecowboy]

It's Zaccharie Risacher they are looking to team with Wemby.

[Dejounte]

Buzelis Is The Most Polished Player Of The Lot. People Want To Penalize Him For Being In The G League, But He Has A Lot Of Offensive Moves In His Bag That Makes His Upside That Much Greater Than The Others.

[onechance87]

Buzelis Is The Most Polished Player Of The Lot. People Want To Penalize Him For Being In The G League, But He Has A Lot Of Offensive Moves In His Bag That Makes His Upside That Much Greater Than The Others.

to inconsitent at shooting....We need shooters are consitent.

[Dejounte]

to inconsitent at shooting....We need shooters are consitent.

Nah, We Lack An Offense. We Don’t Lack Shooters.

[Mr. Body]

Again I'm not really sure what offensive moves Buzelis has in his bag.

[Dejounte]

We’ve Seen Wemby Kick Out To Our Shooters Plenty Of Times. The Problem Is Our Rhythm And Flow. The Offense Didn’t Have An Identity For Much Of The Year, And It’s Starting To Have One With Wemby Now At The Center Of Everything. The Next Step Is To Find Another Person Who Can Generate His Own Offense And Not Looking Uncomfortable Doing It (Vassell).

[Mr. Body]

One good thing about Buzelis is he's used to losing pretty much every game he's in.

[exstatic]

To me the upgrade priority is small forward. We have point guard settled at least for now. Calls for some superstar or even an All-Star at the position place too much need there. Tre is more than fine. I love Julian, he just doesn't provide a lot as a starter.

Whether it's through the draft or otherwise, that's my key right now, although there are other needs to address as well. This draft has a number of SFs that will be available, each bringing a different package of value in Buzelis, Holland, Ruzacher, Williams.

We have no backup PG, so it’s hardly settled. A draft pick can back up while learning the job.

[scott]

This draft is just so underwhelming.

It is entirely within the range of possibilities that the Spurs end up picking #6, take a PG prospect, do very little in the summer, and next season's team looks a lot like this one, but with a new 3rd string PG.

[spurraider21]

im really not sure what im supposed to be seeing with salaun. ok he's tall and he can hit 3's. he's hit less than 37% on the season and thats after this hot streak where he's hit 18 of his last 33. was hitting 22% of them before. keep hearing about his size/athleticism yet he has blocked 4 shots in 435 minutes played this season. shooting just under 40% from the field overall. not much of a sample size but hitting about 73% of his free throws.

he's still just 18. let him cook a little while longer. not everybody has to come into the nba before they turn 21-22.

landscape can change between now and the draft, but right now i want absolutely no part of him this year with the raptors pick, if it conveys. seems like way too much work right now.

[CGD]

This draft is just so underwhelming.

It is entirely within the range of possibilities that the Spurs end up picking #6, take a PG prospect, do very little in the summer, and next season's team looks a lot like this one, but with a new 3rd string PG.

And reup Doug bc he fits the culture. That would be so depressing.

[alfahdlan]

One good thing about Buzelis is he's used to losing pretty much every game he's in.
Pretty much we could say about wemby now.

[baseline bum]

Buzelis Is The Most Polished Player Of The Lot. People Want To Penalize Him For Being In The G League, But He Has A Lot Of Offensive Moves In His Bag That Makes His Upside That Much Greater Than The Others.

I penalize him for shooting 28% from the three in the scrub-ass G-League. Can't draft these non-shooting projects anymore without Chip here. Don't like Topic or Holland either for the same reason.

[DAF86]

Nah, We Lack An Offense. We Don’t Lack Shooters.

We do lack shooters. We currently have 3 non-shooters in the starting lineup. That's just not sustainable on today's NBA. Tell me which teams with 3 non-shooters on their starting lineup are any good? Add shooting and the offense will sort itself out. It is painful to see the little space Wemby has to operate, and he still produces at an elite level. Imagine what he could do if we aid him with some more spacing.

[RC_Drunkford]

I think the bust potential is significantly lower with SFs in this draft than it is with PGs. These wings seem to have 3-and-D abilities which makes them valuable from the get go while the PGs in this draft class have huge questionmarks in either shooting, defense or playmaking

[Russ]

This draft is just so underwhelming.

It is entirely within the range of possibilities that the Spurs end up picking #6, take a PG prospect, do very little in the summer, and next season's team looks a lot like this one, but with a new 3rd string PG.

But, on the other hand, there's always the possibility that young players get better year-to-year. Maybe that's just what young players do. Maybe they're not stuck in time forever just to assuage our precious angst.

And maybe the Spurs, without making a single draft pick (which they no doubt will), or making a single trade (which they might), or signing a single FA (well, who knows), would still get way better over the next few years even if they did nothing (which they won't).

[DAF86]

What? :lol

I don't know what you tried to say, but if your point is "The Spurs will get better with internal growth", well yeah, but not to the point of coming anywhere close to contention. I don't know if you are advocating for the Spurs to just stay path and running it back for the next few years, but that would be the fastest way to run Wemby out of town, tbh. :lol

[Russ]

What? :lol

I don't know what you tried to say, but if your point is "The Spurs will get better with internal growth", well yeah, but not to the point of coming anywhere close to contention. I don't know if you are advocating for the Spurs to just stay path and running it back for the next few years, but that would be the fastest way to run Wemby out of town, tbh. :lol

Gosh, I don't want to run Wemby out of town. I'm sorry. :lol

(And no, I'm not saying the Spurs should do nothing going forward. Read.)

[scott]

And reup Doug bc he fits the culture. That would be so depressing.

I actually wouldn't mind Doug returning on a vet min deal to take over the Devonte Graham chief towel-waver role. But if he is still a core part of our bench rotation next yeah? Sheeeeesh

[Mr. Body]

We have no backup PG, so it’s hardly settled. A draft pick can back up while learning the job.

Literally said it's not my priority, not that we don't need one.

[baseline bum]

This draft is just so underwhelming.

It is entirely within the range of possibilities that the Spurs end up picking #6, take a PG prospect, do very little in the summer, and next season's team looks a lot like this one, but with a new 3rd string PG.

Yeah there's really nothing too exciting in this draft so I don't feel the least bit conflicted cheering the Spurs to get a win instead of more lottery balls against Washington tonight. I'd be surprised if there is even a Brandon Miller in this draft.

[scott]

Not sure any of these high-ceiling PG prospects are going to offer us more in their first year than what Blake would. Might be back to getting the typical rookie treatment in the G-League.

[DrSteffo]

I think that this is a strong draft for PGs and that we are lucky in that way. For me and many others Topic is number one. After that both Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham are special. Castle is also interesting. I think that all of them are better PG prospects than Wesley or Branham and worth a top 10 pick. That said we need everything except another Wemby. I would be happy if we get a Risacher as a Champaigne replacement and next year possibly have three first round picks in a stronger draft. Only way to make me unhappy would be another crazy Primo pick which should have 3-4 people lose their jobs.

[onechance87]

I think that this is a strong draft for PGs and that we are lucky in that way. For me and many others Topic is number one. After that both Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham are special. Castle is also interesting. I think that all of them are better PG prospects than Wesley or Branham and worth a top 10 pick. That said we need everything except another Wemby. I would be happy if we get a Risacher as a Champaigne replacement and next year possibly have three first round picks in a stronger draft. Only way to make me unhappy would be another crazy Primo pick which should have 3-4 people lose their jobs.

proctor should be moving back in top 10,Hes been playing better lately.Think he would pair up nice with wemby

[DrSteffo]

proctor should be moving back in top 10,Hes been playing better lately.Think he would pair up nice with wemby

That's good. I had him on my radar some months ago and happy he has improved. There are others worth taking a chance on later like Carrington or Elliott Cadeau who might not even get drafted but is fun to watch. I am biased because he is Swedish like me.

[mo7888]

I penalize him for shooting 28% from the three in the scrub-ass G-League. Can't draft these non-shooting projects anymore without Chip here. Don't like Topic or Holland either for the same reason.

He's not a non-shooter. He was over 40% from 3 last year, he's just playing on a street ball team now that doesn't get him quality looks. His percentage will be much higher in a structured system.

[baseline bum]

He's not a non-shooter. He was over 40% from 3 last year, he's just playing on a street ball team now that doesn't get him quality looks. His percentage will be much higher in a structured system.

You want to take his performance in high school as more representative of who he'll be in the NBA than what he's doing right now against much better, but still not amazing competition? If they're playing street ball on G-League Ignite maybe he's the problem. If he can't be a leader in such a scrub league how's he going to be one in the NBA?

[Mr. Body]

Ron Holland has been much better than Buzelis.

[baseline bum]

Ron Holland has been much better than Buzelis.

Ugh and he's shooting in the mid 20s from the three point line too.

[Kevin]

Matas still goes top 3 because he has the second highest ceiling next to Sarr. His floor is total bust but there are no high floor prospects like Paulo/Chet so some team will reach for the sky on Matas.

[baseline bum]

Matas still goes top 3 because he has the second highest ceiling next to Sarr. His floor is total bust but there are no high floor prospects like Paulo/Chet so some team will reach for the sky on Matas.

What's the guy's ceiling supposed to be? I just can't get over the idea of drafting a guy shooting 27% from the three to be a swing we line up next to Victor.

[mo7888]

You want to take his performance in high school as more representative of who he'll be in the NBA than what he's doing right now against much better, but still not amazing competition? If they're playing street ball on G-League Ignite maybe he's the problem. If he can't be a leader in such a scrub league how's he going to be one in the NBA?

I absolutely take his HS performance over Ignite. One has structure and one does not. It's really not that difficult of a concept. Ignite is trash... questioning a guy who chooses to go there is legit, but putting any real stock in what happens there is kind of futile..

[mo7888]

What's the guy's ceiling supposed to be? I just can't get over the idea of drafting a guy shooting 27% from the three to be a swing we line up next to Victor.

His ceiling is Franz Wagner...his floor is outta the league.... he'll shoot in the upper 30% range playing in structure next to Wembanyama. He should be at least top 6 in this draft, but he'll probably go higher after individual workouts.

[Mr. Body]

I really don't like the Franz Wagner comparison for Buzelis. It just seems quick and easy. He doesn't have the defense nor the creation abilities. (He is a good weakside shotblocker though.) I see more of a Mike Dunleavy.

[baseline bum]

His ceiling is Franz Wagner...his floor is outta the league.... he'll shoot in the upper 30% range playing in structure next to Wembanyama. He should be at least top 6 in this draft, but he'll probably go higher after individual workouts.

Ugh what a terrible draft when your high risk high reward bet with a top 5 pick is a guy who could be Franz Wagner in the best case but not even NBA level in the worst. Just seems risky basing expectations on someone's HS performance.

[baseline bum]

Dillingham is the one I worry about jumping ahead of the Spurs range if the lottery pans out badly. Risacher I assume is gone if the Spurs end up 4 or lower.

[Mr. Body]

Ugh what a terrible draft when your high risk high reward bet with a top 5 pick is a guy who could be Franz Wagner in the best case but not even NBA level in the worst. Just seems risky basing expectations on someone's HS performance.

This is why I'd almost rather pick 5 or 6 than 1-3, unless they really like Risacher. The rookie salary scale is more affordable and they're getting the same tier of player.

Dillingham consistently gets mocked later in the lottery and I'm not sure that will change. His efficiency is also ticking down as they continue conference play, so he may be a value pick there.

[baseline bum]

This is why I'd almost rather pick 5 or 6 than 1-3, unless they really like Risacher. The rookie salary scale is more affordable and they're getting the same tier of player.

Dillingham consistently gets mocked later in the lottery and I'm not sure that will change. His efficiency is also ticking down as they continue conference play, so he may be a value pick there.

Think I'd much rather still have the earlier pick, as you're only talking the difference between $13.6 million in Year 4 for Scoot Henderson @ 3 vs $10.1 million in Year 4 for Anthony Black @ 6. Victor's Year 4 is $16.9 million @ 1, but if I get Pick #1 I'm trading it as I figure should be able to get a good vet not on his last legs from someone in love with Sarr.

[Mr. Body]

Think I'd much rather still have the earlier pick, as you're only talking the difference between $13.6 million in Year 4 for Scoot Henderson @ 3 vs $10.1 million in Year 4 for Anthony Black @ 6. Victor's Year 4 is $16.9 million @ 1, but if I get Pick #1 I'm trading it as I figure should be able to get a good vet not on his last legs from someone in love with Sarr.

If you have a top pick that you don't like, you'll eventually get to where Phoenix got with Ayton -- just ridiculous amounts of money. I don't want to pay that much to a middling pick.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Two players I absolutely love for the Spurs -- Rob Dillingham and Ryan Dunn.

Dillingham -- he's just exciting to watch. Natural 3 point shooter, and is so quick. Gives me AI/TP vibes with his quickness, not that I'm comparing him to those players. But's he an athlete. Listed between 6'2" and 6'3, he's light -- but has had some very pretty above the rim finishes, which he at times make look very easy. Seems to be a good passer with potential to be a very good passer, and while his defense is pretty good at the college level (impressive number of steals), most scouts think he'll be too slight to be very effective in the NBA. I guess we'll see, but he has something special to his game when he's feeling it. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he's average 25+ ppg and 7 or 8 assists by his third year in the league. I'm confident he'll be a top 5 pick to 8 pick in the draft.

Dunn -- if he can just be an average 3 point shooter than he's worthy of a top 7 pick in this draft. Every year there's some wing that looks like he could evolve into an elite NBA defender. Some do, most are usually above average to very good defensive players (there's only so many guys you can call "elite" before the term becomes meaningless). Very few of those guys fail to stick in the NBA completely, even if they only ever become useful role players/bench guys. I tend to follow those guys pretty closely. Anyway, point being Ryan Dunn looks like an all NBA defense level player in the ACC right now. I remember when he played Syracuse it was like he was a blur because he just came in from off camera to make a block at the rim or make a steal or deflection. His shooting is as bad as Sochan's was when the Spurs drafted him. I'm not going to predict that Dunn will have a Sochan level trajectory, but the Spurs do have a history of taking elite level defensive players and rounding out their offensive game. That'll be important, because right now Dunn has very little offensive polish. Very impressive above the rim finisher, he really looks like an NBA veteran with how easily he dunks the ball. He's definitely had some games where he's used his tremendous size and speed to score 20 points. He looks like a player who would be able to generate a lot of offense off steals and deflections in the NBA because he has plus NBA speed in the open court.

Bottom line: Honestly, this guy just looks like he's bigger, faster, stronger, and more fluid than college players. From an athleticism standpoint, he definitely projects as an NBA player. His defensive IQ is obviously very high given his overall impact as a help and man defender, and he makes switching onto bigger college centers look easy at times. I wouldn't be even slightly surprised if he ends up being an all-NBA defensive player on the wing. Could play a role similar to Aron Gordon on an NBA championship team if he develops. I do get the sense that he has some untapped offensive potential given how easy he makes certain high-degree of difficulty plays at the rim look routine. If he's becomes a league average shooter he could be the Wemby-era Bruce Bowen.

[baseline bum]

If you have a top pick that you don't like, you'll eventually get to where Phoenix got with Ayton -- just ridiculous amounts of money. I don't want to pay that much to a middling pick.

Always a sucker who thinks they can rehab a failed top pick though. Phoenix did alright getting Nurkic and Grayson Allen for him.

[exstatic]

This is why I'd almost rather pick 5 or 6 than 1-3, unless they really like Risacher. The rookie salary scale is more affordable and they're getting the same tier of player.

Dillingham consistently gets mocked later in the lottery and I'm not sure that will change. His efficiency is also ticking down as they continue conference play, so he may be a value pick there.

There was that YouTube showing the younger P Holt at one of Risacher’s games…

[Mr. Body]

There was that YouTube showing the younger P Holt at one of Risacher’s games…

I definitely think they'll take long looks at Risacher, Topic and even Sarr.

[SOMA Spur]

Great article on Espn NBA frontpage today. Draft analysis by none other than Wemby himself. Breaking down the French prospects.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39416203/victor-wembanyama-breaks-france-2024-nba-draft-prospects
Wemby breaking

Some quick takeaways:
Risacher - Wemby's played with him in the past and loves his game. Thinks he's the most talented prospect out there.
Sarr - Doesn't really have a history with him, only played against him once. But is impressed with his progress lately and bold decisions to travel the globe improving his game. Also talked a bit about Sarr as a big guy staring to understand his body more and control it.
Salaun - Knows him well. Saluan, Wemby and Ruperts sisters were on the U16 team a few years back, so Wemby grew up as a kid hanging out with Saluan. Their families know each other well. Talked up his Motor and work ethic.
Melvin Ajinca - Has know him the longest, since they were 11. Has witnessed Melvin's maturity, both physically and on the court, first hand.

After reading this I'm pretty confident Risacher's our guy if he's on the board. And I think Wemby would be thrilled.

[Mr. Body]

Great article on Espn NBA frontpage today. Draft analysis by none other than Wemby himself. Breaking down the French prospects.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39416203/victor-wembanyama-breaks-france-2024-nba-draft-prospects
Wemby breaking

Some quick takeaways:
Risacher - Wemby's played with him in the past and loves his game. Thinks he's the most talented prospect out there.
Sarr - Doesn't really have a history with him, only played against him once. But is impressed with his progress lately and bold decisions to travel the globe improving his game. Also talked a bit about Sarr as a big guy staring to understand his body more and control it.
Salaun - Knows him well. Saluan, Wemby and Ruperts sisters were on the U16 team a few years back, so Wemby grew up as a kid hanging out with Saluan. Their families know each other well. Talked up his Motor and work ethic.
Melvin Ajinca - Has know him the longest, since they were 11. Has witnessed Melvin's maturity, both physically and on the court, first hand.

After reading this I'm pretty confident Risacher's our guy if he's on the board. And I think Wemby would be thrilled.

Damn, Victor, don't talk up one of our targets.

Reading between the lines on Salaun, he doesn't mention his talent or skills necessarily.

And funny reading a twenty year-old talking about a young player's 'maturity.'

[Rubberducky]

Comment I read from spurs Reddit regarding Topic:


He reminds me of pre-draft Alperen Sengun. Turkish BSL MVP at the age of 18 and a bunch of detractors were like, "Yeah, but he won't be good in the NBA. The jump shot is funky and inconsistent, he's undersized, his defense isn't great, etc. But this Jalen Green kid! Hoo, boy, the potential! He's so athletic!"

People are overthinking Topic. He's one of the youngest players in the class, playing extremely well in a much better league than the NCAA. Opposing defenses throw everything they can think of at him and he still was dragging his team to victories, putting up 7 AST per game despite basically no one on Mega being able to shoot, and being second in the league in scoring despite his bad jumper because he's just really good at basketball.

I want to draft players that are really good at basketball. Especially in this draft, where very few prospects have an obvious standout skill (Topic does) or high-end potential in general (Topic does). If he's on the board at the Spurs pick, I hope they don't overthink it.

That's especially true if the Raptors pick doesn't convey. If we have two picks in the top 8, then sure, you might be able to sell me on, like, a Risacher + Dillingham combo. I still don't think I'd prefer it over, say, Topic + Walter or Topic + Holland, but I'd see the argument. If it's just our pick? Topic all the way.

Edit: By the way, on the subject of his shooting... People talk about how free throw percentage is a good predictor of developing a good 3-pt shot a lot, but I feel like that needs to really be put into context for Topic since it's his most common criticism.

Topic is shooting 88% from the line over the last three years. There are only sixteen players in the whole NBA doing that this year. Among those sixteen, the worst 3PT% is Jordan Clarkson at .303. That's an extreme outlier for Clarkson, whose career average is .336, and also for that group of players - the next lowest is SGA at .342.

You can go back and do this for prior seasons if you want more proof, but here's the point: the vast, vast majority of guys who shoot free throws as well as Topic does end up with at least a respectable 3-pointer. Even if he settles at around 33%, that would still force guys to guard him out there, which is the real point. Kyle Kuzma is shooting .329 this year and that's certainly enough to be considered a threat.

[BackHome]

Yeah I love Wemby personality it is like a combination of Timmy and David with a little French flair. I am almost 100% that Sarr will be the first pick and Risacher will be the second pick either going to us or Washington. On a side note Bleacher report came out with new mock has us taking Topic with the 3 rd pick and a big but happy surprise they have us picking Ivisic with our second round pick.

[mo7888]

Ugh what a terrible draft when your high risk high reward bet with a top 5 pick is a guy who could be Franz Wagner in the best case but not even NBA level in the worst. Just seems risky basing expectations on someone's HS performance.

No argument from me there.... this certainly isn't the best draft, but we have to work with whats there..

[Mr. Body]

Two players I absolutely love for the Spurs -- Rob Dillingham and Ryan Dunn.

Dillingham -- he's just exciting to watch. Natural 3 point shooter, and is so quick. Gives me AI/TP vibes with his quickness, not that I'm comparing him to those players. But's he an athlete. Listed between 6'2" and 6'3, he's light -- but has had some very pretty above the rim finishes, which he at times make look very easy. Seems to be a good passer with potential to be a very good passer, and while his defense is pretty good at the college level (impressive number of steals), most scouts think he'll be too slight to be very effective in the NBA. I guess we'll see, but he has something special to his game when he's feeling it. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he's average 25+ ppg and 7 or 8 assists by his third year in the league. I'm confident he'll be a top 5 pick to 8 pick in the draft.

Dunn -- if he can just be an average 3 point shooter than he's worthy of a top 7 pick in this draft. Every year there's some wing that looks like he could evolve into an elite NBA defender. Some do, most are usually above average to very good defensive players (there's only so many guys you can call "elite" before the term becomes meaningless). Very few of those guys fail to stick in the NBA completely, even if they only ever become useful role players/bench guys. I tend to follow those guys pretty closely. Anyway, point being Ryan Dunn looks like an all NBA defense level player in the ACC right now. I remember when he played Syracuse it was like he was a blur because he just came in from off camera to make a block at the rim or make a steal or deflection. His shooting is as bad as Sochan's was when the Spurs drafted him. I'm not going to predict that Dunn will have a Sochan level trajectory, but the Spurs do have a history of taking elite level defensive players and rounding out their offensive game. That'll be important, because right now Dunn has very little offensive polish. Very impressive above the rim finisher, he really looks like an NBA veteran with how easily he dunks the ball. He's definitely had some games where he's used his tremendous size and speed to score 20 points. He looks like a player who would be able to generate a lot of offense off steals and deflections in the NBA because he has plus NBA speed in the open court.

Bottom line: Honestly, this guy just looks like he's bigger, faster, stronger, and more fluid than college players. From an athleticism standpoint, he definitely projects as an NBA player. His defensive IQ is obviously very high given his overall impact as a help and man defender, and he makes switching onto bigger college centers look easy at times. I wouldn't be even slightly surprised if he ends up being an all-NBA defensive player on the wing. Could play a role similar to Aron Gordon on an NBA championship team if he develops. I do get the sense that he has some untapped offensive potential given how easy he makes certain high-degree of difficulty plays at the rim look routine. If he's becomes a league average shooter he could be the Wemby-era Bruce Bowen.

I think you'll find a lot of Dillingham fans here. His profile matches a number of excellent Kentucky guards, although there have been some misses (TyTy Washington). His handle is elite and he has good scoring capabilities. I'm curious to see how the rest of his year goes, as his efficiency has been dropping a tad.

Ryan Dunn really does shadow how awful Sochan's shooting was at Baylor. Their hideous ft% is practically the same at .58. Dunn actually measures out better than Sochan in counting and advanced stats. His impact is undeniable, but...? Virginia's Trey Murphy outplayed his draft position, I might add.

EDIT: Dunn is a sophomore, I just noticed, and is over two years older than Sochan was at draft time.

[Mugen]

They should be going after BPA anyways but Tre/Blake not looking like the worst PG rotation in the league should give them some wiggle room to not zero in on a PG like Topic if they don't absolutely love him. Even replacing Champagnie next season in the SL should lead to a massive improvement.

[JPB]

Ugh what a terrible draft when your high risk high reward bet with a top 5 pick is a guy who could be Franz Wagner in the best case but not even NBA level in the worst. Just seems risky basing expectations on someone's HS performance.

Reason why so far a bunch of euro guys (bunch of french I should say) who are playing pro are ranked higher on top of the draft. No one realy stands out in HS while these euros are showcaing their skills in competititve pro leagues against grown men... That could change a bit with the Tournament although the Tournament doesn't actually weigh that much in scouts eyes, if any.

Plus the fact the NBA is in good part dominated by euro players these days (Luka, Jokic, Giannis), not mentioning the Markkanens of the world or even Bilal who's showing nice promises in Washington.

Oh, and that WembanyaMa (Reggie) kid.

[JPB]

They should be going after BPA anyways but Tre/Blake not looking like the worst PG rotation in the league should give them some wiggle room to not zero in on a PG like Topic if they don't absolutely love him. Even replacing Champagnie next season in the SL should lead to a massive improvement.

Nah, they baly need a skilled, attacking PG. Blake should never be more than a 3d string, defensive specialist PG. I mean he's even missng dunks.

[baseline bum]

They should be going after BPA anyways but Tre/Blake not looking like the worst PG rotation in the league should give them some wiggle room to not zero in on a PG like Topic if they don't absolutely love him. Even replacing Champagnie next season in the SL should lead to a massive improvement.

Which is why forwards like Holland, Buzelis, and Dunn scare the shit out of me. Imagine getting one of them and then realizing we miss Champagnie's 40% three point shooting.

[BatManu20]

Risacher will end up being the #2 overall pick imo. After Sarr. Not sure I agree with the Franz Wagner comparison here though.

1752334455216210149

[baseline bum]

Reason why so far a bunch of euro guys (bunch of french I should say) who are playing pro are ranked higher on top of the draft. No one realy stands out in HS while these euros are showcaing their skills in competititve pro leagues against grown men... That could change a bit with the Tournament although the Tournament doesn't actually weigh that much in scouts eyes, if any.

Plus the fact the NBA is in good part dominated by euro players these days (Luka, Jokic, Giannis), not mentioning the Markkanens of the world or even Bilal who's showing nice promises in Washington.

Oh, and that WembanyaMa (Reggie) kid.

Being that you have the chance to see this league way more than we do, are you sold on Risacher? I know the Spurs desperately need a PG but I think SF might be even worse given Keldon's not enough of a shooter to fit with the starting lineup and Champagnie is a ninth man or tenth man on the roster level talent.

[TrainOfThought5]

We’ve Seen Wemby Kick Out To Our Shooters Plenty Of Times. The Problem Is Our Rhythm And Flow. The Offense Didn’t Have An Identity For Much Of The Year, And It’s Starting To Have One With Wemby Now At The Center Of Everything. The Next Step Is To Find Another Person Who Can Generate His Own Offense And Not Looking Uncomfortable Doing It (Vassell).

Rob Dillingham. That man is Instant offense.

[BatManu20]

Rob Dillingham. That man is Instant offense.

I think Dilly is universally liked on this site, but the his defensive liability is very real. And we’re already a terrible defensive team. You still take him if he’s BPA obviously, but at some point you need to start filling this roster with guys with size and who can defend. Cause right now we’re horrible in that regard.

[JPB]

Being that you have the chance to see this league way more than we do, are you sold on Risacher? I know the Spurs desperately need a PG but I think SF might be even worse given Keldon's not enough of a shooter to fit with the starting lineup and Champagnie is a ninth man or tenth man on the roster level talent.

Risacher is an high BBIQ, all around player (in the Batum/Boris tradition) but probably not the slasher/self creator some would hope for. He's actually very spursy in that regard, not your go to guy but an elite, and I mean ELITE, do everything swingman who can shoot, drive, pass, rebound... with a natural feel and instinct for the game who's not an athletic freak but can play above the rim.

smart kid who can play off the ball too, with a lot of his father finesse and touch (minus the dread locks)... yeah, Bobo and Nico def comes to mind (fit Bobo anyway :)) And when you know he's also elite at defending whatever best perimeter player is on front, you understand why from all those prospects, he's the one who offers the most guarantees yet and why he's projected as potential #1 as a do it all swingman.

I can understand why scouts like him, as a modern NBA wing with little bust probabiltiy... He's not just good this season in France and Europe, but truly and historically impressive and dominant as only 18. He had another great game in Eurocup a few days ago in Greece in front of a bunch of NBA scouts (doing everything and anything, dropping 20 or so)...

He's my pick tbh. If spurs can get a second banana to Wemby, Risacher would be the perfect 3rd element of a big 3 (or second depending, like Manu was).

[mo7888]

Risacher is an high BBIQ, all around player (in the Batum/Boris tradition) but probably not the slasher/self creator some would hope for. He's actually very spursy in that regard, not your go to guy but an elite, and I mean ELITE, do everything swingman who can shoot, drive, pass, rebound... with a natural feel and instinct for the game who's not an athletic freak but can play above the rim.

smart kid who can play off the ball too, with a lot of his father finesse and touch (minus the dread locks)... yeah, Bobo and Nico def comes to mind (fit Bobo anyway :)) And when you know he's also elite at defending whatever best perimeter player is on front, you understand why from all those prospects, he's the one who offers the most guarantees yet and why he's projected as potential #1 as a do it all swingman.

I can understand why scouts like him, as a modern NBA wing with little bust probabiltiy... He's not just good this season in France and Europe, but truly and historically impressive and dominant as only 18. He had another great game in Eurocup a few days ago in Greece in front of a bunch of NBA scouts (doing everything and anything, dropping 20 or so)...

He's my pick tbh. If spurs can get a second banana to Wemby, Risacher would be the perfect 3rd element of a big 3 (or second depending, like Manu was).

I agree with almost all of that. I have him #1 on my board as well, I think he's more of a 4 than a 3, but thats fine paired with Sochan's versatility.

[onechance87]

Risacher is an high BBIQ, all around player (in the Batum/Boris tradition) but probably not the slasher/self creator some would hope for. He's actually very spursy in that regard, not your go to guy but an elite, and I mean ELITE, do everything swingman who can shoot, drive, pass, rebound... with a natural feel and instinct for the game who's not an athletic freak but can play above the rim.

smart kid who can play off the ball too, with a lot of his father finesse and touch (minus the dread locks)... yeah, Bobo and Nico def comes to mind (fit Bobo anyway :)) And when you know he's also elite at defending whatever best perimeter player is on front, you understand why from all those prospects, he's the one who offers the most guarantees yet and why he's projected as potential #1 as a do it all swingman.

I can understand why scouts like him, as a modern NBA wing with little bust probabiltiy... He's not just good this season in France and Europe, but truly and historically impressive and dominant as only 18. He had another great game in Eurocup a few days ago in Greece in front of a bunch of NBA scouts (doing everything and anything, dropping 20 or so)...

He's my pick tbh. If spurs can get a second banana to Wemby, Risacher would be the perfect 3rd element of a big 3 (or second depending, like Manu was).

sounds like cody williams

[Pauleta14]

Question for all the "connaisseurs"...

Has there been in the past a draft that was supposed to be weak like this one but ended up being full of talents/surprises?

[BackHome]

Yeah, I think it was 2013 that a real bad class but the Bucks got lucky and picked Giannis with the 15th pick..

[Pauleta14]

The optimistic part in me wants to thinks it's a better draft than it is maybe ... :lol

[TrainOfThought5]

The optimistic part in me wants to thinks it's a better draft than it is maybe ... :lol

someone with unforeseen work ethic always maximizes their talent to the utmost maximum. Dunn could Turn into Scottie Pippen. Hell Kawhi almost turned into Jordan if it wasn’t for his leg issues.

[spurraider21]

I think Dilly is universally liked on this site, but the his defensive liability is very real. And we’re already a terrible defensive team. You still take him if he’s BPA obviously, but at some point you need to start filling this roster with guys with size and who can defend. Cause right now we’re horrible in that regard.
he will have physical limitations on D, but team defense matters more than individual defense, so it will come down to his motor and bbiq on that end to make up for it.

[SpursBills]

I wanted to push back a little bit on the fact that this is a super weak draft. It has no Wemby, or even Paolo/Chet, but I think there are probably some high upside guys here.

Sarr - I'm personally low on Sarr as I think his 3 is not going to translate so he becomes primarily a pick and roll big on offense as well as versatile defensive weapon. Regardless, he's a way better prospect than Derek Lively who at 10 is looking like a steal and probably should have gone higher

Risacher - He's a better prospect than Brandon Miller imo who was a reasonable #2 pick. He'll be a year younger than Miller when he gets drafted, profiles as a similar tall wing shooter, plays better POA defense, and is producing in a harder league.

Topic - a lot depends on how he looks in Euroleague. I don't put too much stock in raw counting stats, but if he has a reasonable 2 point FG% in Euroleagueand shows an ability to get to the rim and finish, his combination of rim pressure and passing vision makes him a better prospect to me than Scoot who I was down on last year. Neither can shoot well, or defend well, but at least Topic has a high shooting signal with his FT%.

Cody Williams - to date I have not yet seen an instance where a brother who was better at a young age ended up developing into a worse player in the NBA. Cody williams is taller and just as long Jalen Williams and is better at the same age as his brother. History suggests that he's going to be better than Jalen. If that reasoning sounds dumb as fuck, I want some counterexamples of the worse brother in college turning out better in the NBA, especially the younger brother. Jalen probably goes top 5 in a re-draft btw.

Rob Dillingham - statistically, he comps similarly to similar sized Kentucky guys like Fox, Monk, Maxey. I think he'll fill out more honestly and he seems to try harder on defense than all the aforementioned. Maxey goes top 5 in a re-draft, Fox went 5th. Dilly doesn't have any one elite skill he has to hang his hat on like Fox's insane speed, but I think he would probably go pretty high in any draft.

Stephon Castle - 6'6", can't shoot, good passing instincts, good to great perimeter defender, gets played at the wing in college but everybody wants him to be a point guard at the next level. Sounds like Anthony Black. A lot of this board was so hot after Black last year, but this year only rascal is really pushing for Castle. Black went 6th in a reasonable draft, why is Castle so much lower?

Reed Sheppard - crazy advanced stats. Might be a stretch to compare him to Cason Wallace, but he's as good at shooting as wallace is at defense, and probably as good a defender as wallace was a shooter in college. Sheppard's mocked top 10

Ja'Kobe Walter - better as a freshman than KCP as a sophomore; more athletic, better shooter; KCP ended up going 8th in 2013

I know nothing about the G league ignite guys but a lot of people seem to be high on Buzelis. Point being, while this is a below average draft with no sure-fire potential all NBA talent at the top, I think the lottery's actually not too bad if you compare it to prior years.

[Mr. Body]

There were a number of examples upthread of younger brothers who aren't as good as older brothers. Thousands upon thousands. It's a totally ludicrous assertion.

[SpursBills]

There were a number of examples upthread of younger brothers who aren't as good as older brothers. Thousands upon thousands. It's a totally ludicrous assertion.

Again, you misunderstand me.

Yes, there are numerous younger brothers who aren't as good as older brothers. That's not my point.

My question is this: How many of those brothers who were better at the same age developed worse?

Steph curry was better than seth in college and turned out better in the NBA. Lamelo was better in high school than Lonzo and turned out better in the NBA. Jrue holiday was better than Aaron or Justin in college and turned out better in the NBA. Blake griffin was better than his older brother in college and turned out better in the NBA. The Lopez twins, Morris twins, the McDaniels brothers, the list goes on and on. The brother who was better in college always or almost always ends up better in the NBA.

Cody Williams is better than Jalen in college. What's your counter-example? I'm willing to listen.

[Mr. Body]

Again, you misunderstand me.

Yes, there are numerous younger brothers who aren't as good as older brothers. That's not my point.

My question is this: How many of those brothers who were better at the same age developed worse?

Steph curry was better than seth in college and turned out better in the NBA. Lamelo was better in high school than Lonzo and turned out better in the NBA. Jrue holiday was better than Aaron or Justin in college and turned out better in the NBA. Blake griffin was better than his older brother in college and turned out better in the NBA. The Lopez twins, Morris twins, the McDaniels brothers, the list goes on and on. The brother who was better in college always or almost always ends up better in the NBA.

Cody Williams is better than Jalen in college. What's your counter-example? I'm willing to listen.

Go look above. Tre Jones is not better than Tyus Jones. This isn't hard. Your take seems to be that all the players in the NBA are younger siblings. It's manifestly absurd. Yes, there does seem to be a tendency for younger siblings to be better than older siblings. Fine. Drafting somebody because they have a brother is illogical and bordering on insane.

[SpursBills]

Go look above. Tre Jones is not better than Tyus Jones. This isn't hard. Your take seems to be that all the players in the NBA are younger siblings. It's manifestly absurd. Yes, there does seem to be a tendency for younger siblings to be better than older siblings. Fine. Drafting somebody because they have a brother is illogical and bordering on insane.

Hm, maybe I'm not communicating my point effectively because we seem to be talking about two different things. My point is not about younger brothers. My point is about the better brother at an early age being the better brother in the NBA. Tre Jones is not better than Tyus Jones right now, nor was he in college. But Cody Williams is better as a freshman than Jalen Williams as a freshman.

[rascal]

Go look above. Tre Jones is not better than Tyus Jones. This isn't hard. Your take seems to be that all the players in the NBA are younger siblings. It's manifestly absurd. Yes, there does seem to be a tendency for younger siblings to be better than older siblings. Fine. Drafting somebody because they have a brother is illogical and bordering on insane.

This is the point you are missing, I have not yet seen an instance where a brother who was better at a young age ended up developing into a worse player in the NBA.

[Mr. Body]

This is the point you are missing, I have not yet seen an instance where a brother who was better at a young age ended up developing into a worse player in the NBA.

I'm sure if we combed through NCAA history we'll find dozens of examples.

This is just silly. Go explain to an NBA team that they should draft a guy because he has a brother. Go do it. Listen to the laughter. Just complete effing nonsense. Let Cody Williams show if he's a good prospect on his own terms. Christ with this Miss Cleo pseudo-astrology crap.

[SpursBills]

:lol damn dude, shut down that line of discourse pretty quick

[MR-Clutch]

I'm sure if we combed through NCAA history we'll find dozens of examples.

This is just silly. Go explain to an NBA team that they should draft a guy because he has a brother. Go do it. Listen to the laughter. Just complete effing nonsense. Let Cody Williams show if he's a good prospect on his own terms. Christ with this Miss Cleo pseudo-astrology crap.


You are still missing his point. He is saying that when a brother out performs his brother in college at a younger age, regardless if he is the younger or older brother he is generally the better nba player. He then goes on to say at his current age Cody is out performing Jalen at the same age.

[baseline bum]

I'm sure if we combed through NCAA history we'll find dozens of examples.

This is just silly. Go explain to an NBA team that they should draft a guy because he has a brother. Go do it. Listen to the laughter. Just complete effing nonsense. Let Cody Williams show if he's a good prospect on his own terms. Christ with this Miss Cleo pseudo-astrology crap.

He's only asking for one. You're strawmanning his argument.

[SpursBills]

Ultimately, the point is, Cody is a good prospect. Now, obviously you don't draft him high exclusively because Jalen's been awesome, but the fact that Jalen was a late bloomer and was able to put on weight and build strength is highly relevant to this discussion. To me, Cody shows flashes of being an excellent POA defender as well as secondary creation potential. His FT shooting signal is low and his 3 PA is low even compared to freshman year Jalen, but he also has a better frame and is more productive at a similar age.

I tend to evaluate draft prospects based on prior comps whether statistical or otherwise, and the fact that neither I or you can come up with a counterexample to my aforementioned argument is interesting. Brothers share genetics, probably grew up in a similar environment, and most likely played against each other growing up. I can compare Dilly to fox or maxey because of their build and position and they went to the same school to get a feel for his pro potential and it's accepted, I'd argue that it's even more robust to compare a guy playing a similar position with a similar frame to his brother to try and predict their pro outcomes. I don't think it's 'pseudo-Miss Cleo' or whatever anymore than using numbers to compare other players to try and predict their pro potential.

There's definitely more nuance there, like the fact that Jalen was a late bloomer and it's uncertain whether Cody will be as well, but I think that the fact that Jalen is doing well in the league certainly adds significant appeal to him as a draft prospect.

[scott]

Hm, maybe I'm not communicating my point effectively because we seem to be talking about two different things. My point is not about younger brothers. My point is about the better brother at an early age being the better brother in the NBA. Tre Jones is not better than Tyus Jones right now, nor was he in college. But Cody Williams is better as a freshman than Jalen Williams as a freshman.

You are communicating your point perfectly, Mr. Body just has the reading comprehension of a bag of rocks.

[MarCowMar]

He's only asking for one. You're strawmanning his argument.

It's an appeal to ridicule.

"Appeal to Ridicule is an informal fallacy which claims an argument to be ridiculous or absurd. The fallacy uses this claim in an attempt to invalidate the argument since it is not worth entertaining."

https://www.logicalfallacies.org/appeal-to-ridicule.html

[Mr. Body]

You are communicating your point perfectly, Mr. Body just has the reading comprehension of a bag of rocks.

Lol, I get what people are saying, chump. I agree that he's a decent prospect. I draw the line at some horoscope bull crap about his brother. He's not his brother

Might as well scout players with November birthdays, because he has a November birthday.

I think my position is kindergarten clear. It's you with garbage in your ears.

[Mr. Body]

Yall:

1. Made up a rule you claim is universal: younger players who were better at the same age will be better later on.

2. You claim I have to disprove this rule instead of, you know, you proving the rule.

3. Because this rule is, to you, ironclad, therefore player is going to be better than brother.

It's absolutely absurd. You'd flunk out of freshman logic. The assumptions are outlandish, the insistence of the interlocutor to disprove your wild assertion is academically laughable, and your demand that because your rule 'exists' then obviously player will be great. It's logical fallacy built on wild assumption mixed with a version of gamblers fallacy.

I'm done. Any time someone tries to say Cody Williams should be drafted high not because of actually watching him, actually evaluating him, but instead just comparing two statlines, I'm just going to roll my eyes and move on. This is just a poor, poor argument on all sides.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Yall:

1. Made up a rule you claim is universal: younger players who were better at the same age will be better later on.

2. You claim I have to disprove this rule instead of, you know, you proving the rule.

3. Because this rule is, to you, ironclad, therefore player is going to be better than brother.

It's absolutely absurd. You'd flunk out of freshman logic. The assumptions are outlandish, the insistence of the interlocutor to disprove your wild assertion is academically laughable, and your demand that because your rule 'exists' then obviously player will be great. It's logical fallacy built on wild assumption mixed with a version of gamblers fallacy.

I'm done. Any time someone tries to say Cody Williams should be drafted high not because of actually watching him, actually evaluating him, but instead just comparing two statlines, I'm just going to roll my eyes and move on. This is just a poor, poor argument on all sides.

Freshman logic boils down to if A then B and if B then C then if A then C. So where A is a younger brother plays better basketball than his older brother at the same age in college. B is the younger plays better than the older brother in the pros. C is the younger brother deserves to be drafted at least as high as the older brother. Maybe that can help you Mr Body so that you can stop making an ass out of yourself. He’s asking you to show examples where B is wrong. What is insane is to say something is illogical when he is clearly laying out his logic especially when he is asking you to refute by giving counter examples of his linking premise. You can argue by by either showing B to be wrong or arguing that the sample size is too small to be relevant (which I think you are trying to do in your usual oafish manner), but then show relatable examples where a similar premise fell apart as the sample size grew. Obviously freshman logic brought your GPA down.

[DrSteffo]

My top nine for the Spurs would be Topic, Risacher, Williams, Sheppard, Dillingham, Salaun, Holland, Buzelis, Sarr. Sarr is obviously better than this but not a great fit as I see it.

[Dejounte]

Mr Body Is A Dick But Sorry I Agree With Him Here. Being Brothers To Anybody In The Nba Has No Bearing On Ability. I Don’t Look At Cody As Being A Brother To Jalen And Think That’s A Benefit At All. Cody Is His Own Person And Should Be Viewed As A Blank Canvas.

[CGD]

Analogy is kinda of the way we humans make sense of the world, and it turns out offspring that come out of the same vagina and raised in similar settings is actually a pretty tried and true way for making predictions about the future. Award winning academic journals and Nobel prizes are written/awarded comparing siblings/twins all the time to try to inform our understanding in medicine & biology, hard and social sciences, genetics, etc. No one is saying its perfect, but you cant categorically call that a "logical fallacy" in a world were were a reaching for the best "comparisons."

#DraftCody

[mo7888]

Mr Body Is A Dick But Sorry I Agree With Him Here. Being Brothers To Anybody In The Nba Has No Bearing On Ability. I Don’t Look At Cody As Being A Brother To Jalen And Think That’s A Benefit At All. Cody Is His Own Person And Should Be Viewed As A Blank Canvas.

Y'all should really, at least, come up with an example then. I have no idea who's correct because i haven't looked at it historically, but the other side did give examples(plural) to support their position. Your side should at least be able to produce a couple to at least make it a debate.

[Pauleta14]

Mr Body....

You realise he was just talking about PROBABILITIES, don't you?

It's a FACT that OFTEN TIMES (probability) younger brothers learn quicker by hanging out/training etc with their older brother(s)

We're doing projections and this argument has as much value than most in imagining what type of player one can become, especailly if you add Cody's hight or wingspan bigger than his brother's

[The Truth #6]

On one hand, each player should be analyzed on their own merits. But the fact is, players are always compared to other players and situations, looking for some way to find an insight. For example, people are looking at Topic as being a good prospect because he's from Europe and Sengun was underrated at a similar age and now he's doing well... To me, that's an even worse comparison than to someone's own brother.

[The Truth #6]

The "Kentucky guard phenomenon" is a another example of what I'm talking about. Dillingham might be really good because Maxey turned out really good.

I think the bigger issue is that drafting players is very hard and people are looking for any kind of trends that they can, so on one hand I think it's ridiculous, but on the other hand, I also see how people are doing their best to make sense of how to analyze a player and project how they will be in the NBA.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

I don't think we need look any further than the Cliff Paul / Chris Paul comparison to end this disagreement.

[Mugen]

Risacher will end up being the #2 overall pick imo. After Sarr. Not sure I agree with the Franz Wagner comparison here though.

1752334455216210149

He's going #1 tbh.

[LeBowen]

Since there are no must have prospects unlike last year, I think that most teams would be open to trading down.
If Spurs really want someone and are sure he's the real deal, it should be easy enough to trade up with 3rd-6th pick and additional assets.

Other teams with top5 odds have a history of bad draft decisions, should be easy enough to make a trade.

[CGD]

He's going #1 tbh.

I agree. I think Sarr is benefiting from the “Wemby Effect” right now (people think he is a unicorn or can guard unicorns). He could end up going #1, but this kids is probably the best talent.

[Pauleta14]

Risacher is for me the lowest risk/higher ceiling in this draft

Other than his size and bb skills, I love that he like Wemby has been prepared since a young age to play in the NBA with a father elite player and like Wemby lives in a pro environment since 15-16yo.

Also I just read Wemby endorcing him as "the most talented player in the coming draft", having known him since his time at ASVEL (TP's team in Lyon)

Let's hope WSH DET CHA... fall for the Sarr Topic ... hypes

[JPB]

Risacher is for me the lowest risk/higher ceiling in this draft

Other than his size and bb skills, I love that he like Wemby has been prepared since a young age to play in the NBA with a father elite player and like Wemby lives in a pro environment since 15-16yo.

Also I just read Wemby endorcing him as "the most talented player in the coming draft", having known him since his time at ASVEL (TP's team in Lyon)

Let's hope WSH DET CHA... fall for the Sarr Topic ... hypes

"Shhhh, Victor!"

[exstatic]

On one hand, each player should be analyzed on their own merits. But the fact is, players are always compared to other players and situations, looking for some way to find an insight. For example, people are looking at Topic as being a good prospect because he's from Europe and Sengun was underrated at a similar age and now he's doing well... To me, that's an even worse comparison than to someone's own brother.

Nope. It’s not about being European, it’s about being an 18 YO European kicking ass. 18 year olds rarely dominate in grown man Euro leagues. They rarely even get PT with the big club. In the last 7 years, we’ve seen it 3 times: Doncic, Sengün, and Topić. Two of those guys are kicking ass in the NBA, and teams will pass on Topic just like they passed on Sengün, and to a lesser extent Doncic.

[scott]

Please define "kicking ass" in regard to this topic, I'd like to test this premise that Topic is one of three 18 year olds to "kick ass" in European leagues and thus we should take that as a signal of NBA success. I'm not being snarky here, I think this would be good data to look at.

While I'm at it, maybe I'll put some data together on brothers in the NBA as well.

[CGD]

"Shhhh, Victor!"

Victor single-handedly making people millions:

Bilal: $2-3M annually more for Wemby hyping him all the way to the lotto

Risacher: $1.5M more annually with this endorsement which will cement him as a Top2 pick.

Sarr: $3-4M more annual bc of “Wemby Effect”

That Purdue Center: was SRP but now FRP salary bc of Wemby Effect

Filipowski: jumps into lotto bc of Wemby effect

[exstatic]

The "Kentucky guard phenomenon" is a another example of what I'm talking about. Dillingham might be really good because Maxey turned out really good.

I think the bigger issue is that drafting players is very hard and people are looking for any kind of trends that they can, so on one hand I think it's ridiculous, but on the other hand, I also see how people are doing their best to make sense of how to analyze a player and project how they will be in the NBA.

Maxey, IQ, SGA, Fox, Booker, Jamal Murray, Herro, and Monk. The UK guard the is a thing. Someone here said “it’s only because they get the best recruits”. SO WHAT? UK guards drafted in the first round have a ridiculous hit rate, and it’s something you can hang your hat on. Early first like Fox and Murray, mid first like SGA and Book, or late first like Maxey or IQ. It doesn’t seem to matter, they can all ball.

[Mugen]

Victor single-handedly making people millions:

Bilal: $2-3M annually more for Wemby hyping him all the way to the lotto

Risacher: $1.5M more annually with this endorsement which will cement him as a Top2 pick.

Sarr: $3-4M more annual bc of “Wemby Effect”

That Purdue Center: was SRP but now FRP salary bc of Wemby Effect

Filipowski: jumps into lotto bc of Wemby effect

:lol

Similar to Shaq getting a lot of bum centers paid throughout the 90s and early 2000s

[The Truth #6]

Nope. It’s not about being European, it’s about being an 18 YO European kicking ass. 18 year olds rarely dominate in grown man Euro leagues. They rarely even get PT with the big club. In the last 7 years, we’ve seen it 3 times: Doncic, Sengün, and Topić. Two of those guys are kicking ass in the NBA, and teams will pass on Topic just like they passed on Sengün, and to a lesser extent Doncic.
I don't think you refuted anything I typed. I'm referring to the same situation. It's another example of trying to find parallels.

[The Truth #6]

Maxey, IQ, SGA, Fox, Booker, Jamal Murray, Herro, and Monk. The UK guard the is a thing. Someone here said “it’s only because they get the best recruits”. SO WHAT? UK guards drafted in the first round have a ridiculous hit rate, and it’s something you can hang your hat on. Early first like Fox and Murray, mid first like SGA and Book, or late first like Maxey or IQ. It doesn’t seem to matter, they can all ball.

Of course I know about the Kentucky Factor, or whatever it's called, you think I brought it up randomly? I don't completely dismiss it. Just like I'm completely aware that Sengun and Topic are both 18-year-old Europeans doing very well, which is also why I brought it up.


Is there some deeper point you are trying to make in this thread?

[exstatic]

Please define "kicking ass" in regard to this topic, I'd like to test this premise that Topic is one of three 18 year olds to "kick ass" in European leagues and thus we should take that as a signal of NBA success. I'm not being snarky here, I think this would be good data to look at.

While I'm at it, maybe I'll put some data together on brothers in the NBA as well.

Keep in mind that Euro clubs rarely play 18 YOs,let alone start them. I’ll use the non EuroLeague numbers for Doncic (Spanish ACB) and Şengün (Turkish league) to more compare apples to apples, since Topić only played 2 EuroLeague games before his injury.

Doncic 12.8p/5.0a/5.7r on 46/28/77 splits
Sengün 19.2p/2.5a/9.4r on 64/18/81 splits
Topić. 18.6p/6.7a/3.7r on 52/28/85 splits

[scott]

In non-player/team related draft news:

1752755833891348872

[scott]

Keep in mind that Euro clubs rarely play 18 YOs,let alone start them. I’ll use the non EuroLeague numbers for Doncic (Spanish ACB) and Şengün (Turkish league) to more compare apples to apples, since Topić only played 2 EuroLeague games before his injury.

Doncic 12.8p/5.0a/5.7r on 46/28/77 splits
Sengün 19.2p/2.5a/9.4r on 64/18/81 splits
Topić. 18.6p/6.7a/3.7r on 52/28/85 splits

Research project initiated. I'm going to focus on the Top 8 Leagues in this article: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18470135/fran-fraschilla-rankings-world-top-12-basketball-leagues-nba - it is an older one, but it's the most relevant I could find to set a baseline in order to prevent hunting down some 18 year old prospect averaging 45 ppg in some backwoods Brataslavan league.

Note, however, that I do think there is an immediately difference between Doncic, Sengun and Topic that needs to be taken into account. Doncic and Sengun did their work in the top 3 leagues (per the ESPN rankings), whereas Topic was doing it in a much lesser league on a much lesser team that he got loaned to (and presumably could get more PT and spotlight). Topic's first two ABA games back with Red Star did see a drop off in performance and efficiency, and he certainly did not impress in the two EuroLeague games. While it is a small sample size, I think it is too premature to either write Topic off OR to automatically put him in a list with Doncic and Sengun of 18 year olds who "kicked ass" in European leagues.

None the less, I'm going to do some research and we'll see if it holds up.

[SpursBills]

Research project initiated. I'm going to focus on the Top 8 Leagues in this article: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18470135/fran-fraschilla-rankings-world-top-12-basketball-leagues-nba - it is an older one, but it's the most relevant I could find to set a baseline in order to prevent hunting down some 18 year old prospect averaging 45 ppg in some backwoods Brataslavan league.

Note, however, that I do think there is an immediately difference between Doncic, Sengun and Topic that needs to be taken into account. Doncic and Sengun did their work in the top 3 leagues (per the ESPN rankings), whereas Topic was doing it in a much lesser league on a much lesser team that he got loaned to (and presumably could get more PT and spotlight). Topic's first two ABA games back with Red Star did see a drop off in performance and efficiency, and he certainly did not impress in the two EuroLeague games. While it is a small sample size, I think it is too premature to either write Topic off OR to automatically put him in a list with Doncic and Sengun of 18 year olds who "kicked ass" in European leagues.

None the less, I'm going to do some research and we'll see if it holds up.

This right here is exactly why I have backed off on my enthusiasm of topic since my initial post on him - that post was operating under the assumption that ABA is comparable to ACB, which I’ve since realized is a faulty premise, and may significantly affect his projection. Thanks for doing the leg work on this, I’m very curious to see the results!

[baseline bum]

Nope. It’s not about being European, it’s about being an 18 YO European kicking ass. 18 year olds rarely dominate in grown man Euro leagues. They rarely even get PT with the big club. In the last 7 years, we’ve seen it 3 times: Doncic, Sengün, and Topić. Two of those guys are kicking ass in the NBA, and teams will pass on Topic just like they passed on Sengün, and to a lesser extent Doncic.

BSL and especially Euroleague are better competition than the ABA. I'll believe the hype on Topic if he produces in Euroleague but the early returns weren't too promising before he got hurt.

[exstatic]

BSL and especially Euroleague are better competition than the ABA. I'll believe the hype on Topic if he produces in Euroleague but the early returns weren't too promising before he got hurt.

It was two games.

[baseline bum]

Research project initiated. I'm going to focus on the Top 8 Leagues in this article: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18470135/fran-fraschilla-rankings-world-top-12-basketball-leagues-nba - it is an older one, but it's the most relevant I could find to set a baseline in order to prevent hunting down some 18 year old prospect averaging 45 ppg in some backwoods Brataslavan league.

Note, however, that I do think there is an immediately difference between Doncic, Sengun and Topic that needs to be taken into account. Doncic and Sengun did their work in the top 3 leagues (per the ESPN rankings), whereas Topic was doing it in a much lesser league on a much lesser team that he got loaned to (and presumably could get more PT and spotlight). Topic's first two ABA games back with Red Star did see a drop off in performance and efficiency, and he certainly did not impress in the two EuroLeague games. While it is a small sample size, I think it is too premature to either write Topic off OR to automatically put him in a list with Doncic and Sengun of 18 year olds who "kicked ass" in European leagues.

None the less, I'm going to do some research and we'll see if it holds up.

I don't think anyone should be compared to Doncic; that's just painting with the broadest brush possible. He won Euroleague MVP and led his team to the Euroleague title at age 19. He had by far the best resume any 19 year old entering the draft has ever had.

[baseline bum]

It was two games.

Two games which did nothing to dispel the notion that maybe he was just putting up numbers against low end competition. Oh well, he'll have plenty of chance to prove himself over the next three months, but as of now lumping him in with Doncic and Sengun is lunacy.

[spurraider21]

Lol, I get what people are saying, chump. I agree that he's a decent prospect. I draw the line at some horoscope bull crap about his brother. He's not his brother

Might as well scout players with November birthdays, because he has a November birthday.

I think my position is kindergarten clear. It's you with garbage in your ears.
how many times have you referenced "kentucky guards" when talking about dilly :lol

[scott]

This is fun, because it's a stroll down the memory lane of "oh yeah I remember that guy". Here are the only examples I could find of European NBA players who played relatively well as 18-year olds in Europe. This is kind of a hard project because I don't know much about European basketball. I assumed that 18 year old who lit it up in Europe would be drafted high, so I only focused on high picks. It is amazing at how many lottery picks got used on European players who had shown nothing in Europe.



Danilo Gallinari averaged 10.9/4/1 in 2006-07 for Armani Jeans Milano (love the team names). He turned 18 on Aug 6, 2006.
Big Daddy Val was decent as an 18-year old in Euroleague, averaging 7.7/6 in 2010-11. He turned 18 on May 6, 2010.
Jan Vesely was picked #6 overall by the Wizards in 2011. Let's hope we never screw up a lotto pick this bad. As an 18yo he put up 4.8/3 in Euroleague.
Dario Saric didn't break out until he was 19, where he averaged 12.9/8/3 in Eurocup
Dani Avdija, who I remember being a lot of people's pet cat on this board, did absolutely jackshit in Euroleague
Pokusevski has no noteworthy stats... how did this guy get scouted?


Kind of gave up here. Definitely appears that Topic is in rare air as an 18yo performing well in a Top 8 European league. Closest I can find is Gallinari, which would be a pretty good floor. Certainly you'd hope a Top 5 pick would be an all-star, but getting a Gallinari-like career from a pick would still be better than the vast majority of outcomes of lottery picks. Shit, if you told me you could somehow assure a Gallinari-like career from any of the guys in this year's draft, I'd take them #1 overall.

[scott]

Now to evaluate the "Brothers Theory", because I'd think it would be fun. Ignoring the brain-dead musings of an egotistical piss-fetish monger, obviously being someone's brother isn't an indicator of anything. The premise is that when two brothers have both proven NBA-worthy players, the brother who performed better in college at the same age ends up being the better pro. It should be noted that the basic premise likely holds true the majority of the time: the better college player at the same age ends up the better pro player. There are obviously exceptions, but usually good NBA players we also good college players.

Let's take a look at the data. I'm going to ignore brother pairings like Julian and Justin Champagnie... because who is to say which one is the better pro at this point. I'm going to focus on bother pairings who have enough years under their belt to where most people can agree who the better pro is. They also both had to attend college for at least one year, which exclused Lameo vs. Lonzo ball for example.

1. Seth Curry vs Steph Curry. Obvious Steph is the better pro. Big brother Steph also has better stats at every age level. Only their freshman seasons were close, when Seth was at Liberty before transferring to Duke.

2. Aaron, Jrue and Justin Holiday. Jrue should be well acknowledged as the best of the 3. However you can make a case Aaron was the better college player. His Freshman year at UCLA he put up 10.3ppg, 4apg, 3.0 rpg, 1.4 spg whereas Jrue put up 8.5 ppg, 3.7apg, 3.8 rpg, 1.6 spg. Jrue's FG% was much better at .528 vs .394. Jrue also had a higher WS/40. Jrue was Pac-12 All Freshman team, Aaron was not. You make the call.3. Tyus, Tre Jones. Tyus a better college player and a better pro.

4. Brooks and Robin Lopez. Brooks better college and pro.

5. Caleb Martin and Cody Martin. Caleb the better college and pro player, but both just role players and it's kind of close.

6. Evan and Isaiah Mobley. Evan on both.

7. Jaden and Jalen McDaniels. Jaden the better college player. Pretty close in pros, but Jaden a little better.

8. Keegan and Kris Murray. It's Keegan for both.

9. Markieff and Marcus Morris. Marcus gets the nod in college, and probably a slight nod in the pros as well.

10. Franz and Mo Wagner. Franz was definitely the better freshman. Their sophmore years are comparable. Franz the better pro.

[spurraider21]

Mario Hezonja?

[scott]

Mario Hezonja?

Took a look at him, but he actually didn't do much in Europe until 2020-21 when he was already 25. As an 18 year old he average 5.4 ppg in ACB and 1.6ppg in Euroleague.

[spurraider21]

Took a look at him, but he actually didn't do much in Europe until 2020-21 when he was already 25. As an 18 year old he average 5.4 ppg in ACB and 1.6ppg in Euroleague.
i just remember him getting drafted pretty young as well, though he was raw

[scott]

Yeah a lot of those early draft picks of European players are dicey, to say the least. Though honestly you can say the same about American prospects too.

[CGD]

Think we’ve seen social media posts of Spurs personnel watching Topic and Rasicher. Have folks seen anything similar with Sarr?

[BackHome]

Two games which did nothing to dispel the notion that maybe he was just putting up numbers against low end competition. Oh well, he'll have plenty of chance to prove himself over the next three months, but as of now lumping him in with Doncic and Sengun is lunacy.

My question is this is Risacher playing in the same league that Topic was playing in before he moved up?

[exstatic]

My question is this is Risacher playing in the same league that Topic was playing in before he moved up?

I believe Risacher is playing in the French A league.

[TrainOfThought5]

Mr Body....

You realise he was just talking about PROBABILITIES, don't you?

It's a FACT that OFTEN TIMES (probability) younger brothers learn quicker by hanging out/training etc with their older brother(s)

We're doing projections and this argument has as much value than most in imagining what type of player one can become, especailly if you add Cody's hight or wingspan bigger than his brother's

We are going to see this effect in Lebron’s sons firsthand and it’s going to be massive. His second son is going to be THEE Son. Same thing with Deion’s kids.

[baseline bum]

My question is this is Risacher playing in the same league that Topic was playing in before he moved up?

Risacher is playing in the same league Victor played in in France. Topic was playing the Adriatic league (ABA).

[Mr. Body]

Mr Body....

You realise he was just talking about PROBABILITIES, don't you?

It's a FACT that OFTEN TIMES (probability) younger brothers learn quicker by hanging out/training etc with their older brother(s)

We're doing projections and this argument has as much value than most in imagining what type of player one can become, especailly if you add Cody's hight or wingspan bigger than his brother's

Yes, draft a player ten spots too high because of probabilities. Enjoy getting fired.

[baseline bum]

We are going to see this effect in Lebron’s sons firsthand and it’s going to be massive. His second son is going to be THEE Son. Same thing with Deion’s kids.

You would have thought so from the highlight videos all over the internet the previous summer but last I checked Bryce James isn't even a starter in HS and was averaging like 5PPG.

[The Truth #6]

Yes, draft a player ten spots too high because of probabilities. Enjoy getting fired.

And you suggest they should base their opinions on not data but a good strong handshake?

[scott]

Here's a list of PG prospects I'd love some opinions on:

Juan Nunez - 19 year old averaging 10.4ppg, 5.8 apg, 3.8rpg in EuroCup, had a decent run last summer for Spain in FIBA, 7.0ppg, 6.3apg, 4.7rpg in 21.7mpg
Tamin Lipsey - Iowa State
Ajay Mitchell - UC Santa Barbara

[Pauleta14]

Yes, draft a player ten spots too high because of probabilities. Enjoy getting fired.

What else do u think projections are based on?!? :lol

[scott]

NBA GMs don't like to take risks on projections and probabilities. That is why teams are only drafting college seniors these days.

[JPB]

This is fun, because it's a stroll down the memory lane of "oh yeah I remember that guy". Here are the only examples I could find of European NBA players who played relatively well as 18-year olds in Europe. This is kind of a hard project because I don't know much about European basketball. I assumed that 18 year old who lit it up in Europe would be drafted high, so I only focused on high picks. It is amazing at how many lottery picks got used on European players who had shown nothing in Europe.



Danilo Gallinari averaged 10.9/4/1 in 2006-07 for Armani Jeans Milano (love the team names). He turned 18 on Aug 6, 2006.
Big Daddy Val was decent as an 18-year old in Euroleague, averaging 7.7/6 in 2010-11. He turned 18 on May 6, 2010.
Jan Vesely was picked #6 overall by the Wizards in 2011. Let's hope we never screw up a lotto pick this bad. As an 18yo he put up 4.8/3 in Euroleague.
Dario Saric didn't break out until he was 19, where he averaged 12.9/8/3 in Eurocup
Dani Avdija, who I remember being a lot of people's pet cat on this board, did absolutely jackshit in Euroleague
Pokusevski has no noteworthy stats... how did this guy get scouted?


Kind of gave up here. Definitely appears that Topic is in rare air as an 18yo performing well in a Top 8 European league. Closest I can find is Gallinari, which would be a pretty good floor. Certainly you'd hope a Top 5 pick would be an all-star, but getting a Gallinari-like career from a pick would still be better than the vast majority of outcomes of lottery picks. Shit, if you told me you could somehow assure a Gallinari-like career from any of the guys in this year's draft, I'd take them #1 overall.

Toni Kukoc, Arvydas Sabonis and Drazen Petrovic (R.I.P), specially the last two, were performing well at 18 and would have been drafted high today before their 20s, but that was another time where scouts weren't trusting young euros.

[scott]

Toni Kukoc, Arvydas Sabonis and Drazen Petrovic (R.I.P), specially the last two, were performing well at 18 and would have been drafted high today before their 20s, but that was another time where scouts weren't trusting young euros.

And all three were very successful NBA players, which just reinforces the general concept that early success in Europe translates well to success in the NBA.

I'm not super impressed with the videos I've watched of Topic, but you can't deny the production at Mega and Red Star in ABA play this year (though only a 14 game sample size). I think the big question is whether the ABA is a good enough league to draw many conclusions on. Doncic and Sengun showed their stuff in Europe's top leagues. Topic really needs to show something in EuroLeague.

But, the Adriatic League has produced Jokic, Saric, Nurkic, Bojan Bogdanovic, and now Micic is in the NBA.

Also did not realize Spurs alums Banes, Joffrey, Bertans, Beno played in the ABA. Also Milutinov and Dragic. Maybe PAFTO has a secret boner for the ABA.

[exstatic]

A young PG who easily gets to the rim in any decent European league is worth noting. The spacing over there is awful,since they shoot fewer threes from a closer arc.

[Bruno]

Ricky Rubio was also a player who was very good at a young age in Europe.

Regarding Topic, I'm just waiting to see what he will do in Euroleague (or against Partizan in local leagues). I just don't really see the point of deciding now if he could be a good pick while we will have way more meaningful games/stats to evaluate him in a couple of months.

So far, Cody Williams and Risacher seem to be the 2 best options for Spurs first round pick.

[baseline bum]

Yes, draft a player ten spots too high because of probabilities. Enjoy getting fired.

You think Cody Williams is 13th best in this weak draft?

[spurraider21]

And all three were very successful NBA players, which just reinforces the general concept that early success in Europe translates well to success in the NBA.

I'm not super impressed with the videos I've watched of Topic, but you can't deny the production at Mega and Red Star in ABA play this year (though only a 14 game sample size). I think the big question is whether the ABA is a good enough league to draw many conclusions on. Doncic and Sengun showed their stuff in Europe's top leagues. Topic really needs to show something in EuroLeague.

But, the Adriatic League has produced Jokic, Saric, Nurkic, Bojan Bogdanovic, and now Micic is in the NBA.

Also did not realize Spurs alums Banes, Joffrey, Bertans, Beno played in the ABA. Also Milutinov and Dragic. Maybe PAFTO has a secret boner for the ABA.
all his hype comes from 16 ABA games, 2 of which were with red star

[Dejounte]

Y'all should really, at least, come up with an example then. I have no idea who's correct because i haven't looked at it historically, but the other side did give examples(plural) to support their position. Your side should at least be able to produce a couple to at least make it a debate.

I Will Be Happy To Provide A Response Like That When I Am Off These Caps

[Dejounte]

https://x.com/draftexpress/status/1752799877510119710?s=46

Again, No Player With Similar Size Has The Same Fluidity He Has On Offense. Look At The Myriad Of Ways He Is Scoring And How Natural He Does It, Compared To Someone Like Risacher Who Looks Like He’s Still Learning How To Play Basketball

[Pauleta14]

NBA GMs don't like to take risks on projections and probabilities. That is why teams are only drafting college seniors these days.

nobody likes lmao but it’s not like u have a choice …

it’s always a projection based on probability

[CGD]

https://x.com/draftexpress/status/1752799877510119710?s=46

Again, No Player With Similar Size Has The Same Fluidity He Has On Offense. Look At The Myriad Of Ways He Is Scoring And How Natural He Does It, Compared To Someone Like Risacher Who Looks Like He’s Still Learning How To Play Basketball

I can’t shake this guy. He really intrigues me, but I still have Zach and Cody ahead of him at the moment. He’s my #3 tho.

[DAF86]

Unless Buzelis shows he can shoot, he's a bad fit.

[mo7888]

I Will Be Happy To Provide A Response Like That When I Am Off These Caps

Lol... Fair enough...

[onechance87]

https://x.com/draftexpress/status/1752799877510119710?s=46

Again, No Player With Similar Size Has The Same Fluidity He Has On Offense. Look At The Myriad Of Ways He Is Scoring And How Natural He Does It, Compared To Someone Like Risacher Who Looks Like He’s Still Learning How To Play Basketball

thats sum good looking d.

[The Truth #6]

Here's a list of PG prospects I'd love some opinions on:

Juan Nunez - 19 year old averaging 10.4ppg, 5.8 apg, 3.8rpg in EuroCup, had a decent run last summer for Spain in FIBA, 7.0ppg, 6.3apg, 4.7rpg in 21.7mpg
Tamin Lipsey - Iowa State
Ajay Mitchell - UC Santa Barbara


I saw Ajay Mitchell in one top 10, but definitely an outlier.

https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/changing-gears-ajay-mitchell

But that article definitely raises my interest in him. Specifically, if we get a small forward with our own pic but miss out on Toronto's pick, I would be interested in trying to throw together a bunch of second round picks and scraps to see if there's a way to squeeze into the late first round to grab this guy if he's still there.

[The Truth #6]

Unless Buzelis shows he can shoot, he's a bad fit.

It's a legitimate concern but I think he shot better in high school. My main concern is his motor and motivation, but the skills seem to be there, and he seems more comfortable handling the ball than Risacher.

He comes from a very long basketball family with his grandfather I think being a legendary Lithuanian player, and both of his parents playing also if I remember correctly.

[SOMA Spur]

Looks like Buzelis and Holland will get a chance to show off their skills playing alongside NBA payers in two weeks at the All Star Game Rising Stars tournament. Hoping Wemby gets paired with Matas or Ron, that would be nice. Love to see Victor run the break with Holland, or kick out to Buzelis for 3. Big moment for those 2 in a couple of weeks.

[mo7888]

It's a legitimate concern but I think he shot better in high school. My main concern is his motor and motivation, but the skills seem to be there, and he seems more comfortable handling the ball than Risacher.

He comes from a very long basketball family with his grandfather I think being a legendary Lithuanian player, and both of his parents playing also if I remember correctly.

40%+ from 3 in high school..

[BackHome]

Yeah the 3 line is different from High School to College so some players have issues in first season - but his FT should be much better as that does not change.

[SOMA Spur]

Yeah the 3 line is different from High School to College so some players have issues in first season - but his FT should be much better as that does not change.

Curious about the G league rules about only shooting one free throw, how that affects players percentages and stats. I literally just learned the other day that they only shoot one FT shot for most of the game? Might be affecting percentages in some way. But definitely affecting attempt totals, right? - like Ron Holland averages 4 FTs in the G league, but does that equate to 6-7 in the NBA? Maybe someone out there has a better handle on this. ...but another good game from Matas last night: 2/5 on 3s, 2 steals, 4 blocks.

[The Truth #6]

Trying to interpret players development with their statistics in the G League sounds very challenging overall, and I have to agree with others that it is getting difficult to totally trust that league for development of players, at least with ignite. In some ways, and I'm getting a little cynical here, it feels like the future of the NBA with just everything being somewhat meaningless and "fun". As more and more players go to the g League it doesn't mean good players cannot still come out of there and be good in NBA, but it seems like it's going to take at least a year to recalibrate their development. It just seems so odd that this is how the NBA would want to try to develop players for the NBA, but on the other hand it totally makes sense.

*Steps off soapbox

[Russ]

Trying to interpret players development with their statistics in the G League sounds very challenging overall, and I have to agree with others that it is getting difficult to totally trust that league for development of players, at least with ignite. In some ways, and I'm getting a little cynical here, it feels like the future of the NBA with just everything being somewhat meaningless and "fun". As more and more players go to the g League it doesn't mean good players cannot still come out of there and be good in NBA, but it seems like it's going to take at least a year to recalibrate their development. It just seems so odd that this is how the NBA would want to try to develop players for the NBA, but on the other hand it totally makes sense.

*Steps off soapbox

Yeah, the guys in college and Europe are on teams trying to win their leagues.

The G League is basically a bunch of scrimmages.

That gives an additional metric -- winning -- by which to judge the non-G League guys. It also makes you wonder about guys who sign up to play where winning doesn't matter in the first place.

[exstatic]

thats sum good looking d.

That’s interesting, because TaT has him at 4 red minuses for D,and his net rating is like -25

[exstatic]

Yeah the 3 line is different from High School to College so some players have issues in first season - but his FT should be much better as that does not change.

Buzelis is at 70% FTs, not exactly a shooting signal.

[JPB]

Yeah, the guys in college and Europe are on teams trying to win their leagues.

The G League is basically a bunch of scrimmages.

That gives an additional metric -- winning -- by which to judge the non-G League guys. It also makes you wonder about guys who sign up to play where winning doesn't matter in the first place.

Big diff too is that teens in Europe play around vets who may not be MJs on the floor but still can share their experience about the game and about being a pro. Euros may be a bit more mature entering the NBA than muricans from that perspective.

[spurraider21]

That’s interesting, because TaT has him at 4 red minuses for D,and his net rating is like -25
their metric for D is Defensive Rating which is in large part a team stat. its famously the stat that made carlos boozer seem like a really good defender just because he played for Thibs' bulls

thats why all the Ignite guys have the same thing

im not saying he's a great defender, i havent really watched full games from them, just sayin that their metric to evaluate defense is a poor one

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/5z4OnH4f6ms?feature=shared

Everyone’s Favorite Prospect

This Is The Problem With 1-Dimensional Shooters. If Their Shot Isn’t On, Their Ways To Score Are Limited And They Go On To Have Virtually Little Impact On The Game. It’s Almost Like What Everybody Complains About Vassell But To A Greater Degree Since Risacher Is Much More Of A Stiff Than Vassell Is Because Of His Size And Lesser Agility.

These Euroleague Players Are Toying With Him On Offense, Getting By Him Like It’s Nothing And He’s Being Pushed Around By Bigger Players. This Guy Has No Chance Against Nba Players Tbh.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Follow up on Ryan Dunn. So high on this kid.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97tklFc1XH0

If the Raptors' pick does not convey, I would draft him over any player not named Alexander Sarr. Admittedly, he hasn't had many offensive games like this, but just watch how his athleticism just pops out on tape.

Reasoning: Dunn looks like he could be one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA by his second or third year in the league. His defensive tape is unreal. I know the Spurs need a PG, but you have to take a look at the macro-level trends in the NBA. This is probably the most boring era for NBA fandom in the past 35+ years. The league is filled with stars, but the game has become so tilted toward offense that it almost looks scripted at times. Viewership is declining, and the NBA is going to have to do something to constrain NBA offenses sometime soon. In the meantime, the Spurs will have to contend with NBA offenses that routinely score in the high 130s. And, the league has some very exciting young wings that Wemby will have to contend with his entire career. Cooper Flag is going to be a monster. Anthony Edwards is only 22 years old. Tatum, Wagner, and Doncic are all going to be around for a while. Right now the NBA Elite perimeter defense is the league's most valuable currency, and in a draft this meh I think you take a stab finding your next Kawhi.

In terms of his offensive potential -- I think Ryan Dunn has all of the athletic tools he needs to be a very, very special player. He had a very late growth spurt and is 6 or 7 inches taller than when he committed to UVA. He has guard like quickness, and unreal hops (one of the reason he has so many blocks as a college 3). He has a really strong nose for offensive rebounds, and he runs the floor like a gazelle. Despite the growth spurt, he's very coordinated and fluid, and he is a very high IQ player. Developing his 3 point shot will be critical, but when I watch him shoot it looks like he has solid mechanics and decent form. I wonder if his growth spurt may have altered shot. In any event, shooting 35% from 3 will allow Dunn to attack closeouts with ferocity in the NBA. His above the rim potential is also elite given his tremendous positional size. Take a look at the video below to get a sense of him last year as a freshman. In his interviews he also sounds like a very humble, smart, and thoughtful kid.

LINK (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbD1bjb09NQ)

[TimmehC]

Yeah, you can't teach the instincts Dunn has, especially on defense. That said, he's a worse 3 point/FT shooter than Kawhi or Bruce Bowen ever were in college. But as you said, he's a high IQ player, so he does most of his shooting in the paint and doesn't turn the ball over. If his shot can be fixed like Sochan's was, that's a great fucking pick.

[DAF86]

Follow up on Ryan Dunn. So high on this kid.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97tklFc1XH0

If the Raptors' pick does not convey, I would draft him over any player not named Alexander Sarr. Admittedly, he hasn't had many offensive games like this, but just watch how his athleticism just pops out on tape.

Reasoning: Dunn looks like he could be one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA by his second or third year in the league. His defensive tape is unreal. I know the Spurs need a PG, but you have to take a look at the macro-level trends in the NBA. This is probably the most boring era for NBA fandom in the past 35+ years. The league is filled with stars, but the game has become so tilted toward offense that it almost looks scripted at times. Viewership is declining, and the NBA is going to have to do something to constrain NBA offenses sometime soon. In the meantime, the Spurs will have to contend with NBA offenses that routinely score in the high 130s. And, the league has some very exciting young wings that Wemby will have to contend with his entire career. Cooper Flag is going to be a monster. Anthony Edwards is only 22 years old. Tatum, Wagner, and Doncic are all going to be around for a while. Right now the NBA Elite perimeter defense is the league's most valuable currency, and in a draft this meh I think you take a stab finding your next Kawhi.

In terms of his offensive potential -- I think Ryan Dunn has all of the athletic tools he needs to be a very, very special player. He had a very late growth spurt and is 6 or 7 inches taller than when he committed to UVA. He has guard like quickness, and unreal hops (one of the reason he has so many blocks as a college 3). He has a really strong nose for offensive rebounds, and he runs the floor like a gazelle. Despite the growth spurt, he's very coordinated and fluid, and he is a very high IQ player. Developing his 3 point shot will be critical, but when I watch him shoot it looks like he has solid mechanics and decent form. I wonder if his growth spurt may have altered shot. In any event, shooting 35% from 3 will allow Dunn to attack closeouts with ferocity in the NBA. His above the rim potential is also elite given his tremendous positional size. Take a look at the video below to get a sense of him last year as a freshman. In his interviews he also sounds like a very humble, smart, and thoughtful kid.

LINK (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbD1bjb09NQ)

You said it yourself, you need to keep up with teams that will put up 130 no matter what. How do you plan to do that with a team that would have guys like Tre, Sochan and Dunn playing big minutes? The Spurs can't keep adding guys that can't shoot.

[The Truth #6]

Just sort of spitballing here on some of the different wing players.

Risacher: predictable floor but doesn't project to be multi dimensional.

Buzelis: multi dimensional, comfortable with the ball, questionable shot and motor, high ceiling, if he hits, pretty much what we want at the SF spot

Holland: unquestionable motor, less skilled, making progress with the ball, will need seasoning, not a classic Pop player, questions about feel for the game

The interview with Buzelis may be important. But workouts will probably be empty gym so getting a handle on his motor, to me, is the question.

Just rambling.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Dunn has so much going for him, but in this day and age, how many more non-shooting threats can the Spurs afford to have on the roster? 58% from the line is getting into hack-a-Dunn territory.

His shot needs a lot of work. The release looks okay. When he catches and shoots, his base is really wide, he takes a deep knee bend before liftoff and brings the ball down to his waist. He doesn't always shoot at the top of his jump. The whole thing needs to be more compact. There's a lot of wasted motion in there.

[DAF86]

https://youtu.be/5z4OnH4f6ms?feature=shared

Everyone’s Favorite Prospect

This Is The Problem With 1-Dimensional Shooters. If Their Shot Isn’t On, Their Ways To Score Are Limited And They Go On To Have Virtually Little Impact On The Game. It’s Almost Like What Everybody Complains About Vassell But To A Greater Degree Since Risacher Is Much More Of A Stiff Than Vassell Is Because Of His Size And Lesser Agility.

These Euroleague Players Are Toying With Him On Offense, Getting By Him Like It’s Nothing And He’s Being Pushed Around By Bigger Players. This Guy Has No Chance Against Nba Players Tbh.

Dude, this is Bush league. As if Buzelis didn't have games where he looked like complete ass. :lol I actually wouldn't be opposed to Buzelis if his FT shooting wasn't as shitty as his 3pt shooting. He also reminds me too much of Samanic, tbh.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Dunn has so much going for him, but in this day and age, how many more non-shooting threats can the Spurs afford to have on the roster? 58% from the line is getting into hack-a-Dunn territory.

His shot needs a lot of work. The release looks okay. When he catches and shoots, his base is really wide, he takes a deep knee bend before liftoff and brings the ball down to his waist. He doesn't always shoot at the top of his jump. The whole thing needs to be more compact. There's a lot of wasted motion in there.

I completely agree that his lack of offensive polish right now -- particularly his shooting -- will be determine his ceiling and fate in the NBA. That said, the Spurs haven't been struggling to score for the most part, they just make a lot of stupid mistakes on offense. With how Wemby has been playing lately, I just don't worry that much about the Spurs offense for the next 10+ years. Where the Spurs have been historically bad has been on defense, and that's particularly true on 3point defense. When I watch Dunn play in college, he can cover and entire section of the court and really compress the offensive spacing of the team he's playing because no one wants to go at him one on one. Pairing a guy like that with Wemby could make the Spurs an elite defensive team again, which I think is their biggest need.

[SOMA Spur]

^this. Plus I don't even think Risacher had that terrible of a game. Sure the stats weren't there, but you see some good transition flashes - dunks, alley-oop passes, exciting stuff. Also played through some tickytac calls from the refs to have a good defensive game. You can see the switchablity, POA defense. And most importantly, he turned it up last minute to shut down the opponent and get the win. Sure he got burned a couple times during the game, but everyone does, even Wemby last game.

[baseline bum]

Yeah, the guys in college and Europe are on teams trying to win their leagues.

The G League is basically a bunch of scrimmages.

That gives an additional metric -- winning -- by which to judge the non-G League guys. It also makes you wonder about guys who sign up to play where winning doesn't matter in the first place.

After seeing how Jalen Green and Scoot have looked in the NBA I want no part of G-League Ignite prospects. No thanks Buzelis, no thanks Holland unless the lotto balls have the Spurs drop hard and Sarr, Risacher, Williams, both Kentucky PGs, and Topic are off the board. Maybe take a swing with the Toronto pick if it conveys and everyone I mentioned is off the board then.

[Ariel]

Follow up on Ryan Dunn. So high on this kid.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97tklFc1XH0

If the Raptors' pick does not convey, I would draft him over any player not named Alexander Sarr. Admittedly, he hasn't had many offensive games like this, but just watch how his athleticism just pops out on tape.

Reasoning: Dunn looks like he could be one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA by his second or third year in the league. His defensive tape is unreal. I know the Spurs need a PG, but you have to take a look at the macro-level trends in the NBA. This is probably the most boring era for NBA fandom in the past 35+ years. The league is filled with stars, but the game has become so tilted toward offense that it almost looks scripted at times. Viewership is declining, and the NBA is going to have to do something to constrain NBA offenses sometime soon. In the meantime, the Spurs will have to contend with NBA offenses that routinely score in the high 130s. And, the league has some very exciting young wings that Wemby will have to contend with his entire career. Cooper Flag is going to be a monster. Anthony Edwards is only 22 years old. Tatum, Wagner, and Doncic are all going to be around for a while. Right now the NBA Elite perimeter defense is the league's most valuable currency, and in a draft this meh I think you take a stab finding your next Kawhi.

In terms of his offensive potential -- I think Ryan Dunn has all of the athletic tools he needs to be a very, very special player. He had a very late growth spurt and is 6 or 7 inches taller than when he committed to UVA. He has guard like quickness, and unreal hops (one of the reason he has so many blocks as a college 3). He has a really strong nose for offensive rebounds, and he runs the floor like a gazelle. Despite the growth spurt, he's very coordinated and fluid, and he is a very high IQ player. Developing his 3 point shot will be critical, but when I watch him shoot it looks like he has solid mechanics and decent form. I wonder if his growth spurt may have altered shot. In any event, shooting 35% from 3 will allow Dunn to attack closeouts with ferocity in the NBA. His above the rim potential is also elite given his tremendous positional size. Take a look at the video below to get a sense of him last year as a freshman. In his interviews he also sounds like a very humble, smart, and thoughtful kid.

LINK (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbD1bjb09NQ)
I think drafting Dunn with the Spurs own pick (probably in the 1-7 range) would be a defeatist pick. Sure, he has all the tools to be a great defender, but when you're that bad of a shooter, how valuable can you be?. If you come to the conclusion that there's no player available that offers a better outlook than Dunn, you might as well shop the pick. I mean, is Dunn going to be a better defender than, say, Herb Jones? Because he's already a much better shooter and on a good contract, and I think the Pelicans would seriously consider moving him for the Spurs' own pick. Or whatever is the best player / pick the Spurs can get.
All in all, I'm not enamored with any player and I agree Sarr seems like the best floor/upside combo out there, but if Dunn is the best available, you either roll the dice on a higher upside prospect (Topic, Buzelis,etc) or get a young vet that has much of his strengths without his weaknesses. Not a fan of him as the top pick.

[baseline bum]

I completely agree that his lack of offensive polish right now -- particularly his shooting -- will be determine his ceiling and fate in the NBA. That said, the Spurs haven't been struggling to score for the most part, they just make a lot of stupid mistakes on offense. With how Wemby has been playing lately, I just don't worry that much about the Spurs offense for the next 10+ years. Where the Spurs have been historically bad has been on defense, and that's particularly true on 3point defense. When I watch Dunn play in college, he can cover and entire section of the court and really compress the offensive spacing of the team he's playing because no one wants to go at him one on one. Pairing a guy like that with Wemby could make the Spurs an elite defensive team again, which I think is their biggest need.

Spurs wouldn't have won those three titles with Bruce Bowen shooting 24% from the three instead of the 35% to 45% he actually shot here. If Dunn can't do that he can't be the answer at the three. Dunn shooting the way he does now just ensures his man could be all over Wemby any time Dunn is on the floor.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I think drafting Dunn with the Spurs own pick (probably in the 1-7 range) would be a defeatist pick. Sure, he has all the tools to be a great defender, but when you're that bad of a shooter, how valuable can you be?. If you come to the conclusion that there's no player available that offers a better outlook than Dunn, you might as well shop the pick. I mean, is Dunn going to be a better defender than, say, Herb Jones? Because he's already a much better shooter and on a good contract, and I think the Pelicans would seriously consider moving him for the Spurs' own pick. Or whatever is the best player / pick the Spurs can get.
All in all, I'm not enamored with any player and I agree Sarr seems like the best floor/upside combo out there, but if Dunn is the best available, you either roll the dice on a higher upside prospect (Topic, Buzelis,etc) or get a young vet that has much of his strengths without his weaknesses. Not a fan of him as the top pick.

I’ll put it this way. I think he can be a better defensive player than prime Kawhi. Not saying it’s going to happen, but the potential is there.

[Mr. Body]

I posted a page or two ago that Ryan Dunn is statistically superior to Sochan in many ways coming out of college. A lot of their stats track and Dunn has better advanced stats, although at different positions and Sochan was coming off the bench and was more of a facilitator. Jeremy was a bit better of a 3 pt shooter, although still bad, but got up a lot more shots. Dunn is a sophomore, so we're not entirely comparing apples.

https://tankathon.com/players/compare?players=ryan-dunn--jeremy-sochan

What sticks with me on Dunn is that he's already 21. If he hasn't fixed his shot or offensive deficiencies, that's not a good sign.

[rankingtear]

Follow up on Ryan Dunn. So high on this kid.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97tklFc1XH0

If the Raptors' pick does not convey, I would draft him over any player not named Alexander Sarr. Admittedly, he hasn't had many offensive games like this, but just watch how his athleticism just pops out on tape.

Reasoning: Dunn looks like he could be one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA by his second or third year in the league. His defensive tape is unreal. I know the Spurs need a PG, but you have to take a look at the macro-level trends in the NBA. This is probably the most boring era for NBA fandom in the past 35+ years. The league is filled with stars, but the game has become so tilted toward offense that it almost looks scripted at times. Viewership is declining, and the NBA is going to have to do something to constrain NBA offenses sometime soon. In the meantime, the Spurs will have to contend with NBA offenses that routinely score in the high 130s. And, the league has some very exciting young wings that Wemby will have to contend with his entire career. Cooper Flag is going to be a monster. Anthony Edwards is only 22 years old. Tatum, Wagner, and Doncic are all going to be around for a while. Right now the NBA Elite perimeter defense is the league's most valuable currency, and in a draft this meh I think you take a stab finding your next Kawhi.

In terms of his offensive potential -- I think Ryan Dunn has all of the athletic tools he needs to be a very, very special player. He had a very late growth spurt and is 6 or 7 inches taller than when he committed to UVA. He has guard like quickness, and unreal hops (one of the reason he has so many blocks as a college 3). He has a really strong nose for offensive rebounds, and he runs the floor like a gazelle. Despite the growth spurt, he's very coordinated and fluid, and he is a very high IQ player. Developing his 3 point shot will be critical, but when I watch him shoot it looks like he has solid mechanics and decent form. I wonder if his growth spurt may have altered shot. In any event, shooting 35% from 3 will allow Dunn to attack closeouts with ferocity in the NBA. His above the rim potential is also elite given his tremendous positional size. Take a look at the video below to get a sense of him last year as a freshman. In his interviews he also sounds like a very humble, smart, and thoughtful kid.

LINK (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbD1bjb09NQ)

That guy is a center.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

I posted a page or two ago that Ryan Dunn is statistically superior to Sochan in many ways coming out of college. A lot of their stats track and Dunn has better advanced stats, although at different positions and Sochan was coming off the bench and was more of a facilitator. Jeremy was a bit better of a 3 pt shooter, although still bad, but got up a lot more shots. Dunn is a sophomore, so we're not entirely comparing apples.

https://tankathon.com/players/compare?players=ryan-dunn--jeremy-sochan

What sticks with me on Dunn is that he's already 21. If he hasn't fixed his shot or offensive deficiencies, that's not a good sign.

Yep... Sochan is 4 months younger than Dunn.

Beyond the numbers, you could see Sochan's elevated IQ on offense even in his limited bench role. Dunn is a 3 and D guy with no 3. Mattisse Thybulle is shorter, but maybe another comp?

https://tankathon.com/players/compare?players=ryan-dunn--matisse-thybulle

[JPB]

^this. Plus I don't even think Risacher had that terrible of a game. Sure the stats weren't there, but you see some good transition flashes - dunks, alley-oop passes, exciting stuff. Also played through some tickytac calls from the refs to have a good defensive game. You can see the switchablity, POA defense. And most importantly, he turned it up last minute to shut down the opponent and get the win. Sure he got burned a couple times during the game, but everyone does, even Wemby last game.

And he's 18 playing vs. grown men. Inconstitency is to be expected, speciallly at this time of the season where he also may be hitting some kind of rookie wall in his first real season with big minutes. Using one off night to judge a 18 prospect is like using YT highlights, pointless without some perspective. That's why you judge them over a season and Risacher is having a hell of a season. People had doubts about Victor's physiciality too and it's all about potential anyway.

that's like watching Chet last two games, before his very last, where had 4 and 9pt nights on terrible shooting, and saying this kid can't play in the NBA.

[CorrectCrusader]

If you think that RIsacher game was a "bad game" you haven't watched the gleague prospects at all this year. Risacher was still valuable when not scoring.

[JPB]

If you think that RIsacher game was a "bad game" you haven't watched the gleague prospects at all this year. Risacher was still valuable when not scoring.

He's an all around/facilitator guy who can impact the game on different ways, indeed.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I posted a page or two ago that Ryan Dunn is statistically superior to Sochan in many ways coming out of college. A lot of their stats track and Dunn has better advanced stats, although at different positions and Sochan was coming off the bench and was more of a facilitator. Jeremy was a bit better of a 3 pt shooter, although still bad, but got up a lot more shots. Dunn is a sophomore, so we're not entirely comparing apples.

https://tankathon.com/players/compare?players=ryan-dunn--jeremy-sochan

What sticks with me on Dunn is that he's already 21. If he hasn't fixed his shot or offensive deficiencies, that's not a good sign.

I hate that we're in a place where 21 is considered old for an NBA prospect. David Robinson had a similar growth spurt and took a few extra years to develop -- things turned out pretty well for him. The same can be said for Tim Duncan, Dennis Rodman, Scottie Pippen, and a whole list of HOF players over the years. Late bloomers happen, and 21 is still super young.

I'm also way more inclined to take a bet on a superstar college defender rounding out his offensive game than I am hopeful or optimistic that a poor defending, offensively talented college/ European player will ever round out his defensive game. For one thing, being elite on defense is not solely about measurables -- showing out defensively means that the player is a hard worker with elite competitiveness because those traits are needed to play elite level defense in college or European pro leagues. Being an elite defensive player also requires the player to be an elite run/jump athlete with very good lateral quickness. Those are very good attributes for players to build off with NBA coaching, and you can get a very good sense of a player's work ethic and coach-ability based on the way he plays defense. Those are guys that can typically work their way into developing a decent, reliable shot, which is why the Spurs have had so much success with exactly this prototype. George Hill, Kawhi Leonard, Derrick White, Dejounte Murray, Devin Vessel, Jeremy Sochan, and Kyle Anderson were all Spurs players that started out as pretty limited offensive players with terrific defensive abilities. It's a proven strength of the program to develop this archetype of player at this point.

Bottom line is this -- the kid can barely drink and he is dominating the ACC defensively in a way that very few wings could even dream of. He's one of the best defensive players in NCAA history, only behind David Robinson and a few other HOF centers from the 80s/90s. Just watch him play.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHMSA0dZSd8

[Mr. Body]

We're living in a world where an exceptional defender who is already 21 years old cannot play for the Pistons because he can't shoot -- Ausar Thompson.

[DAF86]

Yeah, hard pass on Dunn. Those type of players become unplayable in the playoffs.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

We're living in a world where an exceptional defender who is already 21 years old cannot play for the Pistons because he can't shoot -- Ausar Thompson.

He's a rookie in a really bad environment playing for a horrible organization. I wouldn't bet that the story is already written about Thompson.

The guy I was super high on last year, Jarace Walker, has barely played but when he has he's shown out. I thought last year that there was a chance for Walker to end up being the second best player in the draft because I thought he could play wing in the NBA. Everyone else thought he was an undersized four. He's shooting the ball well in the time he's on the floor for the Pacers, and he looks like a very good athlete. I'm not positive that he'll end up a superstar, but I am very confident that Walker is going to be a good and valuable player in the NBA.

[spurraider21]

Dunn is really fun to watch, but its clear that he's a small big, and not a big wing. that doesnt necessarily mean he'll be bad. Bam is 6'9 and one of the best defensive centers in the game. Horford is 6'9

[Mr. Body]

He's a rookie in a really bad environment playing for a horrible organization. I wouldn't bet that the story is already written about Thompson.

The guy I was super high on last year, Jarace Walker, has barely played but when he has he's shown out. I thought last year that there was a chance for Walker to end up being the second best player in the draft because I thought he could play wing in the NBA. Everyone else thought he was an undersized four. He's shooting the ball well in the time he's on the floor for the Pacers, and he looks like a very good athlete. I'm not positive that he'll end up a superstar, but I am very confident that Walker is going to be a good and valuable player in the NBA.

Definitely not written for Ausar, but goes to the point I'd make for Dunn. I would draft him later in the lottery very happily. There's a chance he outplays Buzelis, Risacher, or any other SF, but it's hard to invest a very high pick on that kind of deficit. I'm sure the Spurs would check him out and see.

[Russ]

Get your popcorn out for tomorrow (Saturday 2/3) -- Tennessee vs Kentucky.

Three guys who are sure first rounders (possibly all in the lottery) -- Rob Dillingham, Reed Sheppard and Dalton Knecht (plus a few more Kentucky guys likely to go 1st-2nd Round).

Dillingham and Sheppard are young and have the Kentucky pedigree. Knecht (Tennessee) is old and just keeps exceeding expectations.

I normally favor the young flashy guys but it's hard to get rid of Knecht the more you see him. He's like a higher-end Derrick White. They both rose up from directional schools in Colorado to the big time and just kept succeeding. Like that horse you bet on in a claimer race whose moving up in class but just keeps beating the higher-priced ponies. Knecht affects the game every minute he's on the court. You have to watch the game in real time to get that. He's not just a highlight reel like so many of our favorites.

Anyway, it's two top ten teams who both really want to win the game, not just show themselves for the scouts.

Tomorrow at 7:30 (SA time) on ESPN. Bon Appetit!

[TD 21]

1. The Spurs are 27th on offense and 24th on defense and can't afford to expend more significant assets/roles on more limited/non shooters.

2. Dunn looks like he'll be able to guard 1-4, but he ostensibly needs to be a de facto 5 on offense.

3. Murray, White and Walker IV all figured out how to shoot 5 minutes after leaving here. Anderson never did, but he improved some too.

[Ariel]

We're living in a world where an exceptional defender who is already 21 years old cannot play for the Pistons because he can't shoot -- Ausar Thompson.

Definitely not written for Ausar, but goes to the point I'd make for Dunn. I would draft him later in the lottery very happily. There's a chance he outplays Buzelis, Risacher, or any other SF, but it's hard to invest a very high pick on that kind of deficit. I'm sure the Spurs would check him out and see.
I was going to bring up the same example. Ausar is an ELITE defender, rebounder, athlete, and is more skilled than Dunn, but his total lack of a jump shot is killing his chances. If Toronto's pick comes up at 10 then maybe, but I'd hope for something else with the Spurs own pick.

[Mr. Body]

Wow, Amen and Ausar are combined for 17/110 from three this year.

[BackHome]

When you swing for a home run and strike out badly

[CGD]

Wow, Amen and Ausar are combined for 17/110 from three this year.

Woah, that’s awful

[CorrectCrusader]

Risachers 6'10 frame would've been nice tonight when Sochan got into foul trouble. Need another board man

[BackHome]

Can someone who is from over tell me why he is such a bad rebounder for his height?

[Mr. Body]

Risachers 6'10 frame would've been nice tonight when Sochan got into foul trouble. Need another board man

Risacher is an awful rebounder.

[CorrectCrusader]

Risacher is an awful rebounder.

Do you even watch the games

[Mr. Body]

Do you even watch the games

When you watch the games, do you imagine he gets more than three rebounds a game?

[CorrectCrusader]

When you watch the games, do you imagine he gets more than three rebounds a game?

Risachers role in the NBA would be completely different than how he's used in the french league.

[Mr. Body]

Risachers role in the NBA would be completely different than how he's used in the french league.

You think they've told him not to rebound?

[rankingtear]

I think it is really between the 3 wings, with Zacch it is an easy upgrade over Champ and you can keep Tre as a starter or another PNR guard. With Mathas you get a big wing creator and you try to find a defensive minded combo at the other guard spot. With Cody, maybe you run him at point forward and get a small wing in there maybe someone who can shoot off screen.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

That guy is a center.

I couldn't disagree more. Everyone recognizes this guy is a 3. Just watch him play


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucs5TptNRvI

[R. DeMurre]

Trying to interpret players development with their statistics in the G League sounds very challenging overall, and I have to agree with others that it is getting difficult to totally trust that league for development of players, at least with ignite. In some ways, and I'm getting a little cynical here, it feels like the future of the NBA with just everything being somewhat meaningless and "fun". As more and more players go to the g League it doesn't mean good players cannot still come out of there and be good in NBA, but it seems like it's going to take at least a year to recalibrate their development. It just seems so odd that this is how the NBA would want to try to develop players for the NBA, but on the other hand it totally makes sense.

*Steps off soapbox


This year is especially difficult to put in perspective because Holland and Buzelis are 1-15 with G League Ignite, with a huge negative point differential. There were lots of questions about Amen and Ausar last year and their level of competition/comparative age with the City Reapers of Overtime Elite, but at least they did what they were supposed to do in terms of impacting wins, going 21-1. But the Thompsons were mostly competing against guys younger than them in OTE, while Holland and Buzelis are mostly competing against guys older than them in the G League.

[SpursBills]

I couldn't disagree more. Everyone recognizes this guy is a 3. Just watch him play


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucs5TptNRvI

I'm a fan of Dunn and as a numbers oriented guy his advanced stats are eye-popping. I'm not averse to using a pick on him, but I think whether you choose to draft him or not really depends on how you feel about Sochan's long term potential. While both guys have the work ethic and skill to turn into league average shooters, I think you need a little more offensive juice in at least one of your wings. If you feel like Sochan probably is a bench guy at best or not a core guy moving forward, then Dunn seems more reasonable to take a flyer on. If you view Sochan as a core piece and long term starter next to Wemby, then your marginal utility of drafting Dunn doesn't outweigh that of a wing with more offensive upside.

[The Truth #6]

Holland vs Dunn to me is an interesting compare/contrast. Both seem to have really strong work ethics, and really strong physical traits, but Holland seems to have a little more hope for his offensive side. Though his defense is not as good as Dunn's, though no one's is, it seems. Still, if Jeremy is the power forward of the future, which he looks like, then someone like Buzelis in theory seems to make more sense at the three.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I'm a fan of Dunn and as a numbers oriented guy his advanced stats are eye-popping. I'm not averse to using a pick on him, but I think whether you choose to draft him or not really depends on how you feel about Sochan's long term potential. While both guys have the work ethic and skill to turn into league average shooters, I think you need a little more offensive juice in at least one of your wings. If you feel like Sochan probably is a bench guy at best or not a core guy moving forward, then Dunn seems more reasonable to take a flyer on. If you view Sochan as a core piece and long term starter next to Wemby, then your marginal utility of drafting Dunn doesn't outweigh that of a wing with more offensive upside.

I agree that Sochan and Dunn together may present some challenges at first, but I'm thinking 5 years in the future (which is what you really have to do with NBA draft prospects). In the long run I think Sochan is the starting 4 and Dunn would be the starting 3. I think Sochan's perimeter defense is very above average for a 4 which makes him very switchable, but he doesnt have the quickness yet to be a true wing. If both players become valuable starters on a good team, the switching ability of both is incredibly intriguing. Long term, Wemby needs to round out his 3 point shot, and I think you need a starting PG that is a very good shooter, but I have faith that Sochan will become a league average shooter in a few years.

[Extra Stout]

Stephon Castle nice game today

[Ariel]

I agree that Sochan and Dunn together may present some challenges at first, but I'm thinking 5 years in the future (which is what you really have to do with NBA draft prospects). In the long run I think Sochan is the starting 4 and Dunn would be the starting 3. I think Sochan's perimeter defense is very above average for a 4 which makes him very switchable, but he doesnt have the quickness yet to be a true wing. If both players become valuable starters on a good team, the switching ability of both is incredibly intriguing. Long term, Wemby needs to round out his 3 point shot, and I think you need a starting PG that is a very good shooter, but I have faith that Sochan will become a league average shooter in a few years.
It's very difficult to play at a high level with that many subpar shooters. Look at OKC and how Giddey is getting exposed despite being surrounded by 4 snipers and a much better shooter than Dunn projects to be. Also, Sochan is improving to the point he can make reasonably easy 3s at better than average efficiency, but that doesn't mean he can do the same with tough 3s (long, contested, under pressure), he'd likely still need to be surrounded by better shooters. Barring some developmental miracle, I don't think you can project a long term line up with Wemby, Sochan and Dunn. With that said, if you hate everyone on the board at Toronto's pick and think he's a much better prospect than anyone else, then take Dunn and figure it out later (build them up and flip them in a package for a star).

[spurraider21]

I couldn't disagree more. Everyone recognizes this guy is a 3. Just watch him play


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucs5TptNRvI
:lol every defensive possession is him defending a big in the paint or coming up for a pick and roll because his man, the other team's big, is setting a screen

and offensively he's almost always a screen setter and roll man... a big man role. otherwise you can see him just battling for low position and getting entry passes. the amount of times he's doing something with the ball in the perimeter is negligible. did you watch your own video?

he's an undersized big, possibly athletic and strong enough to make it work

[SpursBills]

My personal preference for team building involves one of two paths:

Option 1: Topic proves in Euroleague that he's that guy. That doesn't mean he dominates grown men, but something approximating Doncic's age 18 (not age 19) season at Real with a 2 point FG% around 60 showing that his rim finishing translates would probably do it for me. Now you've got your big lead creator, you can shunt usage to Topic, what you need is size and shooting (preferably movement shooting), and defense at the wing at the expense of creation to maximize spacing around Wemby and Topic. Use your second pick (hopefully raptors convey) to get that, I think Risacher will be off the board by then, but something like a Johnny Furphy who gives you size at 6'8-6'9", movement shooting, and pretty good defense. Now you've got a 5 guys all over 6'6", a lead creator who can apply a ton of rim pressure and a superstar all-around big with most of your usage, and surround them with 3 wings who give you size, defense, and shooting including movement shooting and tough shot making to varying degrees. Topic is your only negative defender on the floor but at least he's 6'6" so hopefully he can't get hunted to quite the same degree as a smaller guard.

Option 2: Topic proves in Euroleague he's not that guy. ABA competition is trash, his rim finishing ends up being fraudulent, and he proves he's not good enough to drive an elite offense. Or, you have a ton of faith in one of the top forward prospects in the draft. In this option, you get a wing with some creation ability first. I prefer Cody williams, some will say Buzelis, whoever the front office identifies as best going forward, but that guy needs to a) have size (6'8" or over to counteract Sochan's slight lack of size) and b) have some creation potential c) be a good defender who can switch across positions. Now at point guard you draft somebody like Sheppard who provides elite shooting and who is useful both on ball and off ball. Usage is more egalitarian here shared primarily between your PG, point forward, and Wemby. You have 5 guys who can all dribble, pass, shoot to varying degrees including at least 1 elite shooter in Sheppard and 2 good shooters in your point forward and Vassell. Everybody's at least a decent defender, Sheppard gets hunted because he's small but he generates a ton of defensive events to make up for it.

Either of these pathways is preferable to getting a true big next to Wemby due to the potential spacing provided by playing 2 big wings. I'm very curious to how the front office decides to approach this moving forward.

[Ignazzz]

Great post

[rascal]

Stephon Castle nice game today

Still has a suspect 3 pt shot with a wide stance but has a solid overall game and would be my top PG choice.

[BackHome]

He had a good game as he started to shoot more 3 balls if he can continue to do what he did last game he has a chance to work himself into a top 5 pick. But if he reverts back he probably falls somewhere 8 to 11 round

[CGD]

My personal preference for team building involves one of two paths:

Option 1: Topic proves in Euroleague that he's that guy. That doesn't mean he dominates grown men, but something approximating Doncic's age 18 (not age 19) season at Real with a 2 point FG% around 60 showing that his rim finishing translates would probably do it for me. Now you've got your big lead creator, you can shunt usage to Topic, what you need is size and shooting (preferably movement shooting), and defense at the wing at the expense of creation to maximize spacing around Wemby and Topic. Use your second pick (hopefully raptors convey) to get that, I think Risacher will be off the board by then, but something like a Johnny Furphy who gives you size at 6'8-6'9", movement shooting, and pretty good defense. Now you've got a 5 guys all over 6'6", a lead creator who can apply a ton of rim pressure and a superstar all-around big with most of your usage, and surround them with 3 wings who give you size, defense, and shooting including movement shooting and tough shot making to varying degrees. Topic is your only negative defender on the floor but at least he's 6'6" so hopefully he can't get hunted to quite the same degree as a smaller guard.

Option 2: Topic proves in Euroleague he's not that guy. ABA competition is trash, his rim finishing ends up being fraudulent, and he proves he's not good enough to drive an elite offense. Or, you have a ton of faith in one of the top forward prospects in the draft. In this option, you get a wing with some creation ability first. I prefer Cody williams, some will say Buzelis, whoever the front office identifies as best going forward, but that guy needs to a) have size (6'8" or over to counteract Sochan's slight lack of size) and b) have some creation potential c) be a good defender who can switch across positions. Now at point guard you draft somebody like Sheppard who provides elite shooting and who is useful both on ball and off ball. Usage is more egalitarian here shared primarily between your PG, point forward, and Wemby. You have 5 guys who can all dribble, pass, shoot to varying degrees including at least 1 elite shooter in Sheppard and 2 good shooters in your point forward and Vassell. Everybody's at least a decent defender, Sheppard gets hunted because he's small but he generates a ton of defensive events to make up for it.

Either of these pathways is preferable to getting a true big next to Wemby due to the potential spacing provided by playing 2 big wings. I'm very curious to how the front office decides to approach this moving forward.

I agree. In short, they have to really believe Topic can be the elite creator they desperately need to justify passing on the first or second best wing prospect (which I too think is Cody).

[Mr. Body]

I agree. In short, they have to really believe Topic can be the elite creator they desperately need to justify passing on the first or second best wing prospect (which I too think is Cody).

It's likely that Topic excels at core skill sets while the SFs all have major question marks. Risacher and Williams are terrible rebounders. Williams is not a good defender and I keep seeing people say he can play point forward when he hasn't shown any of that. They're both very good shooters, but are hovering around 70% from the line, which gives me pause.

Topic meanwhile may be exceptional as a ballhandler and pressuring the rim, may be very good as a facilitator. Also, he shoots .878 from the free throw line at a good 4 times a game. There are no NBA players who shoot that well from the stripe who don't hit at least league average from three.

[Ariel]

It's likely that Topic excels at core skill sets while the SFs all have major question marks. Risacher and Williams are terrible rebounders. Williams is not a good defender and I keep seeing people say he can play point forward when he hasn't shown any of that. They're both very good shooters, but are hovering around 70% from the line, which gives me pause.

Topic meanwhile may be exceptional as a ballhandler and pressuring the rim, may be very good as a facilitator.
And he's also a very poor defender and athlete, plays below the rim and may have his shot blocked a lot. He doesn't seem anywhere near as resourceful as Luka was. Point being, you can pick apart any prospect, I think Topic's weaknesses aren't any less significant than those of Risacher and Williams.

Also, he shoots .878 from the free throw line at a good 4 times a game. There are no NBA players who shoot that well from the stripe who don't hit at least league average from three.
How about Tre Jones?

[Mr. Body]

Topic's efficiency at the rim is very high.

[exstatic]

Topic's efficiency at the rim is very high.

Yeah, that and high creativity can make up for athletic and defensive shortcomings. Just look at the pilsbury doughboy in Dallas.

[Mr. Body]

Tre Jones is a very good FT shooter but poor from range. I'd seen the stat somewhere, but maybe it's mistaken. Maybe it's a good FT shooter who has a larger number of attempts. He only shoots two a game.

SGA isn't an above the rim player, either. He gets to the rim due to speed and hits angles. (He also gets gifted 10 fts a game, which is fucking absurd.) That's what Topic does. He's very fast and he knows his angles and how to use his body to create space.

Not my point, really, so much as saying the SFs are all questionable in various ways. I'm not sold on Risacher or Williams at all on defense. We seem to think they'll be defensive stoppers because they fit an archetype. And while they both shoot extremely well (so far) their FT% is pretty concerning, suggests unsustainable range.

[BackHome]

The thing I like about Topic is that he has very good handles he can get in and out of traps all the while not passing just keeping his dribble. The other thing I like is that he finishes around the rim and the big plus he seeks out contact he uses his body very well to shield his shots. You add that he is a great FT shooter and is one of the youngest players in this draft gives you hope he can and will improve

The things that people have questions are his defenses, his mid range game is pretty absent could definitely learn from Parker the tear drop move. And the 3 ball is definitely what is going to make him either a good pick or a great pick a couple of years from now.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/mikefinger/status/1753987238373785664

[toki9]

https://twitter.com/mikefinger/status/1753987238373785664

Nepo baby?

[Ariel]

Tre Jones is a very good FT shooter but poor from range. I'd seen the stat somewhere, but maybe it's mistaken. Maybe it's a good FT shooter who has a larger number of attempts. He only shoots two a game.
There are lots of counter examples that refute that, Malaki Branham is another and I'm not even going beyond the current Spurs' roster. I'd use it more as a broad indicator, a necessary condition, but you can't just assume that because he's a great FT shooter he's going to be a great 3pt shooter.

SGA isn't an above the rim player, either. He gets to the rim due to speed and hits angles. (He also gets gifted 10 fts a game, which is fucking absurd.) That's what Topic does. He's very fast and he knows his angles and how to use his body to create space.
Again, another flawed comparison. First, both Luka and SGA are incredibly skilled and resourceful, any reference to those guys while trying to make a case for Topic is not really credible. I'm not saying he won't be good, I'm saying there's a lot of room for doubts with him as well, and I'm also far from sold on Risacher (mainly defensively) or Williams (mainly regarding his true upside). I'm not really enamored with any prospect I've seen, but with that said, I'm far less confident in Topic being a homeless man's Luka/SGA, than I am in Dillingham being a poor man's Garland. Sure, he'll get burned on D a lot in the NBA, but that kid is really talented and can flat out play. If we're picking among flawed prospects, his strengths give me more confidence than a lot of the higher profile prospects.

[BackHome]

A great game for Dilly playing 27 minutes and scoring 35 points against a very good defensive team - though they took the loss

[BatManu20]

1753993034251862398

[Mr. Body]

Watched the Kentucky game.

Continue to be completely unsure about Reed Sheppard. He makes a lot of right plays, hits outlet passes perfectly, gets his hands in to disrupt plays on defense, shoots well, yet I have no idea if it can translate into the NBA. What's more, he seems like a second tier role-player on a team where he's supposed to be a top NBA candidate. I could see him developing, say, if he stayed another year or two, but right now I don't see a high lottery guy. I'm not even sure he's an NBA player rather than a super efficient college player who doesn't actually impact the game that much.

As for Rob Dillingham, he's like the only guy on Kentucky with any juevos. He doesn't lack for confidence, yet he's not always calling his own shot and seems a complete team player, instructing players on both sides of the ball, but then he'll blow defensive assignments himself. He also gets blown by easily despite native personal quickness. Some of the horrible defense has to be Calipari's fault - the team is all over the place. It's hard to tell how much of this can be fixed - Dillingham is a bad defender not just because of height and weight but because he's leaden footed and isn't well coached. How much can be fixed?

Calipari - no idea what this guy is doing. They're missing DJ Wagner, but that guy's a mess, too. The more I watch this draft class the more I just wish they could trade out completely. However, Dillingham's confidence and nature on the court continues to intrigue next to his ability to score. I don't know if this is a bench player only. More to the point, not a guy the Spurs would select.

[Mr. Body]

I mean, Kentucky would have been destroyed in this game, a home game, if Dillingham hadn't gone super saiyan with calling his own shot and keeping them in.

[RC_Drunkford]

1753993034251862398

this is why I'm high on Dillingham. It's one thing for a player to learn how to shoot catch and shoot 3s. It's a whole nother thing to make those shots off the dribble.

[LeBowen]

As someone who has no idea about any of the upcoming draft players, I'm sold on Dillingham after watching those highlights. :lol

Maxey, Quickley, Herro, SGA, Fox, Jamal Murray, Booker.
Can't go wrong with a Kentucky guard it seems.

[exstatic]

As someone who has no idea about any of the upcoming draft players, I'm sold on Dillingham after watching those highlights. :lol

Maxey, Quickley, Herro, SGA, Fox, Jamal Murray, Booker.
Can't go wrong with a Kentucky guard it seems.

If they get drafted in the first round, early middle or late, they tend to flourish.

[Mr. Body]

You hope his defensive issues are correctable. It's not for a lack of effort or attention. He's not an arrogant player. He gives what the team sorely lacks in a guy who can get his shot any time he wants and isn't sore and scared about it.

[LeBowen]

Chances are high that Spurs will easily get their preferred point guard in the draft.

Hornets, Blazers, Pistons, Grizzlies have long-term point guards.
Raptors might get lucky, but chances of them having a better pick than the Spurs are low.
Leaving only Wizards as a team that also needs a point guard.

And what are the odds that both front offices prefer the same point guard prospect in a draft like this without established order?

[Ignazzz]

Do dream scenario pulling #1 and WAS #4
trade down for #3 and assets

TEAM with #3 will pick and take Sarr with #1
Spurs Nicola NJ still in the range
WAS PG left open WING for spurs with ( i hope) TOR

[Knoxxx]

What about a Wemby/Edey pairing? Sochan can slide to the SF when all 3
are on the floor.

[mo7888]

What about a Wemby/Edey pairing? Sochan can slide to the SF when all 3
are on the floor.

I'm not opposed to Edey per se, but it's just not feasible where we will be drafting. He's just not someone you want in the top 10.

[Ignazzz]

We have got better options.

[Knoxxx]

With Edey I know the knock will be he doesn’t space the floor, but as we get flat out abused near the rim it and watching Collins brick so many 3s and provide so little rim protection and pushed around a lot you can see why I’d view Edey as a large upgrade in my own little twin towers fantasy.

Now of course the mock draft I checked had Edey all the way at pick #30. So the conventional wisdom is he’s not good enough for the pick. Also what matters is what we need the most, and being able to slide Sochan to the 3 spot seems to solve a lot of lineup issues for us. Given the amount of draft assets we have, it does not seem like much of a stretch to acquire a pick in the second part of the draft sufficient to secure Edey.

[mo7888]

With Edey I know the knock will be he doesn’t space the floor, but as we get flat out abused near the rim it and watching Collins brick so many 3s and provide so little rim protection and pushed around a lot you can see why I’d view Edey as a large upgrade in my own little twin towers fantasy.

Now of course the mock draft I checked had Edey all the way at pick #30. So the conventional wisdom is he’s not good enough for the pick. Also what matters is what we need the most, and being able to slide Sochan to the 3 spot seems to solve a lot of lineup issues for us. Given the amount of draft assets we have, it does not seem like much of a stretch to acquire a pick in the second part of the draft sufficient to secure Edey.

You might be able to get Edey with our 2nd rd pick

[CGD]

this is why I'm high on Dillingham. It's one thing for a player to learn how to shoot catch and shoot 3s. It's a whole nother thing to make those shots off the dribble.

Well he’ll have to be elite at that at the next level with what looks to be a negative wingspan (and being 6ft). But JJ Redick was able to make it was a T-Rex arms largely because of shooting off movement.

[mo7888]

Matas Buzelis is about to be playing on NBATV if anyone is interested..

[mo7888]

Matas Buzelis is about to be playing on NBATV if anyone is interested..

I like a lot of what i saw from him in the 1st quarter. The team is trash, basically reminds me of a bunch of pee wee chuckers. Buzelis was usually in good position on D and he was a willing rebounder (much more aggressive there than Risacher). He showed good handles and real good change of pace. He can get by his man with relative ease. Court vision may be his strongest attribute. He can just make passes others can't because of his vision. One left handed cross court pass was pretty impressive.

On the negative side, his shot reminds me of Wagner before he got NBA level work little mechanical). I also thought his motor wasn't really as high as I'd like. I think (hope) it's a product of playing with a trash team that doesn't give a damn, but can't be sure.

[Mr. Body]

Edey probably clogs up the lane too much for Wembanyama, although I'd grab him if he slips to the early 2nd. I think he goes late teens, early twenties.

Buzelis may be my focus for a small forward at this point. He's a 'value' buy given how bad Ignite has been for his stock. His form doesnt look terrible and could well be fixed.