2024 NBA Draft Thread

[rjv]

During his Ringer interview, Wemby mentioned that he was receiving messages from this year's prospects. I'm sure that this includes the French prospects but I have to wonder if any of the college prospects have reached out.

[BackHome]

1781048878139072540

Strike while the Iron is HOT - Smart move for him as next years draft is stacked...

[BackHome]

During his Ringer interview, Wemby mentioned that he was receiving messages from this year's prospects. I'm sure that this includes the French prospects but I have to wonder if any of the college prospects have reached out.

I have a feeling Spurs will pick up either Melvin Alinja or Pacome Dadiet in the second round - two international players we can either bring over or stash for a year or two

[SpursBills]

Do we have any predictors for when either college shooting guards Or combo guards are able to Successfully transition to point guards in the NBA? I’m looking at the starting point for many of the playoff or play in teams this year and a lot of them seem to have started their career as either combo guards or shooting guards.

Off the top of my head:
SGA
Jamal Murray
Harden/Westbrook
Beal
Reaves
CJ McCollum
Derrick White
Donovan Mitchell
Suggs
Haliburton
Maxey
Coby White
Dejounte

I’ll be the first to admit that I wasn’t grinding tape of most or even all of these guys at the time of their draft, but I do remember all of them having significant concerns about their ability to play the point at the next level when they were drafted. And all of them have successfully transitioned either early in their career like Halliburton or later in the career like CJ. This does suggest that when looking for a point guard, especially in the spurs system, we may be able to overlook a prospect with limited passing vision , as that can most likely develop later. What may be more important than vision is scoring potential and shooting ability as long as the prospect exhibit some flashes of being able to initiate. Even in someone like Malik Monk, Played a shooting guard position in college has improved his passing chops while in the league.

This pertains the most to Reed Sheppard, who I think has a high chance of translating to a point guard at the next level. However, I am more interested in whether a guy like Devin Carter, Who did not really exhibit much creation ability until this year as a senior, would Be able to translate as a point guard at the next level.

[spurraider21]

Would definitely be nice to get out of the Collins deal like Dallas did with Bertans last year.
dallas moved off of bertans, moved back, and still got Lively. masterclass. they then bought another FRP from sacto for fairly cheap, tho Propser didnt do much as a rook

[spurraider21]

difference between sheppard and a lot of those combo guards is he's not blowing by guys off the dribble like maxey, and he's not overwhelming with size like SGA. he's going to have to be a smaller reaves and really adapt to the pick and roll game. at least he can fall back on the shooting.

[Degoat]

I’m afraid Reed might just be a Payton Prichard

[baseline bum]

dallas moved off of bertans, moved back, and still got Lively. masterclass. they then bought another FRP from sacto for fairly cheap, tho Propser didnt do much as a rook

Though with that trade they ended up clearing room to give the Spurs an unprotected 2030 swap to facilitate the failed Grant Williams trade. :lol

[spurraider21]

Though with that trade they ended up clearing room to give the Spurs an unprotected 2030 swap to facilitate the failed Grant Williams trade. :lol
they also gave up a first to go from grant williams to pj washington :lol

so they paid a 2027 top 2 protected FRP, an unprotected 2030 pick swap to get PJ Washington and unload Bullock who was expiring anyway :lol

but their draft day stuff was good

[Pauleta14]

Can an agent infuence a Franchise not to draft a player?

From french sources, Risacher's camp don't want to end up in Detroit or Charlotte for ex. Would those franchises select him anyway consideing he isn't Franchise player potential?

[Degoat]

I was big on us trading for Tyler Herro last summer, that didn’t happen but would it be wild to say Dalton Knecht has his potential? Honestly watching highlights they look exactly the same lol

[alfahdlan]

I’m afraid Reed might just be a Payton Prichard
Payton was senior when drafted almost a finished product. Who will be Sheppard given 3 more years?

[spurraider21]

I was big on us trading for Tyler Herro last summer, that didn’t happen but would it be wild to say Dalton Knecht has his potential? Honestly watching highlights they look exactly the same lol
i was also advocating for us getting in on the hypothetical Lillard to Miami trade, whether that included us giving up a FRP for Herro, or just sending out spare parts for Lowry.

difference between Herro and Knecht is Herro is a much better passer and playmaker who can give you legit spot minutes at PG

[Ariel]

Can an agent infuence a Franchise not to draft a player?

From french sources, Risacher's camp don't want to end up in Detroit or Charlotte for ex. Would those franchises select him anyway consideing he isn't Franchise player potential?
They absolutely can and do. Ivey told Sacramento to pass on him despite being projected to go 4th, Haliburton made it known he didn't want to get drafted by several teams who already had a PG, and they got their way. Kobe supposedly was kept away from lots of teams and told Charlotte he wouldn't play for them. Another interesting case is Steph, who wanted to be drafted by NY (they were picking at 8) so he told GSW not to draft them at 7. They told him they were going to draft him anyway and did, and the rest is history. Bottom line is: bluff all you want and you might get away with it, but if the team calls it then you probably have to swallow your pride and bite the bullet. Honestly I don't think Risacher is in position to dismiss any team especially one picking high that desperately needs his skill set.

[Knoxxx]

This mock has Dillingham to Spurs at 5 and Topic to Raptors at 6. Shannon IL to Spurs at 35.

https://www.si.com/nba/draft/2024-nba-mock-draft-big-board-playoffs-postseason

[TD 21]

Supposedly Castle's dad played with Duncan in college.



Can an agent infuence a Franchise not to draft a player?

From french sources, Risacher's camp don't want to end up in Detroit or Charlotte for ex. Would those franchises select him anyway consideing he isn't Franchise player potential?

They can try, but obviously the franchise can do what they want.

If this is true though, it probably decreases the odds of them selecting him, especially considering the lack of star potential.

If the projected order holds and he gets to 3, the Spurs should offer 5, Johnson and the Hornets 1st for 3 and Bertans.

[Limguogolo]

They absolutely can and do. Ivey told Sacramento to pass on him despite being projected to go 4th, Haliburton made it known he didn't want to get drafted by several teams who already had a PG, and they got their way. Kobe supposedly was kept away from lots of teams and told Charlotte he wouldn't play for them. Another interesting case is Steph, who wanted to be drafted by NY (they were picking at 8) so he told GSW not to draft them at 7. They told him they were going to draft him anyway and did, and the rest is history. Bottom line is: bluff all you want and you might get away with it, but if the team calls it then you probably have to swallow your pride and bite the bullet. Honestly I don't think Risacher is in position to dismiss any team especially one picking high that desperately needs his skill set.
This decision would in any case be quite questionable in the medium and long term. Last year, Victor didn't want to go to the Rockets, but the team is nothing like last year's team. And then you have Paul desperate to join a team for a title, which happens to the Warriors, and then, no play-off. To express such prerogatives when you are not Victor or Kobe is to shoot yourself in the foot. Bilal made no fuss about not going to Washington.

[Pauleta14]

They absolutely can and do. Ivey told Sacramento to pass on him despite being projected to go 4th, Haliburton made it known he didn't want to get drafted by several teams who already had a PG, and they got their way. Kobe supposedly was kept away from lots of teams and told Charlotte he wouldn't play for them. Another interesting case is Steph, who wanted to be drafted by NY (they were picking at 8) so he told GSW not to draft them at 7. They told him they were going to draft him anyway and did, and the rest is history. Bottom line is: bluff all you want and you might get away with it, but if the team calls it then you probably have to swallow your pride and bite the bullet. Honestly I don't think Risacher is in position to dismiss any team especially one picking high that desperately needs his skill set.




They can try, but obviously the franchise can do what they want.

If this is true though, it probably decreases the odds of them selecting him, especially considering the lack of star potential.

If the projected order holds and he gets to 3, the Spurs should offer 5, Johnson and the Hornets 1st for 3 and Bertans.

Thx guys

I agree with you Ariel in the case of potential star players but Risacher isn't really.

His camp dgaf about money as much as others (father former pro) and REALLY don't want DET or CHA (not sure about WAS bc of Bilal's presence)

Add the fact that he's been far from showcasing himself recently after huge hype... I'm not naturally a conspiracy theorist but it does smell fishy to me

[Pauleta14]

This decision would in any case be quite questionable in the medium and long term. Last year, Victor didn't want to go to the Rockets, but the team is nothing like last year's team. And then you have Paul desperate to join a team for a title, which happens to the Warriors, and then, no play-off. To express such prerogatives when you are not Victor or Kobe is to shoot yourself in the foot. Bilal made no fuss about not going to Washington.

Bilal went from playing U21 to playing with the pros/Victor to middle to late 1RP to lottery. Of course he's not going to argue.

Risacher has alwasy been top5 at worst and top1 for months. He's neither Bilal nor Vic's profile and his camp insisted on the fact they don't care about the draft position.

Not sure what team would ABSOLUTELY want Risacher in this weak draft to the point of taking him without his consent...

[CGD]

Thx guys

I agree with you Ariel in the case of potential star players but Risacher isn't really.

His camp dgaf about money as much as others (father former pro) and REALLY don't want DET or CHA (not sure about WAS bc of Bilal's presence)

Add the fact that he's been far from showcasing himself recently after huge hype... I'm not naturally a conspiracy theorist but it does smell fishy to me

I’m curious what DET would do about Sarr if they land #1, but I have a hard time seeing how they don’t take Risacher if they land anywhere else. He’s in theory exactly what they need.

[Pauleta14]

I’m curious what DET would do about Sarr if they land #1, but I have a hard time seeing how they don’t take Risacher if they land anywhere else. He’s in theory exactly what they need.

Another youngster to develop?

If I was DET I'd hunt for experience and use those picks to trade

[CGD]

Another youngster to develop?

If I was DET I'd hunt for experience and use those picks to trade

I was thinking shooting at the wing (they’re overweighted at PG and Cs), but sure, trades could be a path to that too I suppose. I’m assuming that if a trade doesn’t materialize that they’ll be drafting a player.

[onechance87]

surely pistons trade the pick to get a veteran.

[Vienna]

Bilal went from playing U21 to playing with the pros/Victor to middle to late 1RP to lottery. Of course he's not going to argue.

Risacher has alwasy been top5 at worst and top1 for months. He's neither Bilal nor Vic's profile and his camp insisted on the fact they don't care about the draft position.

Not sure what team would ABSOLUTELY want Risacher in this weak draft to the point of taking him without his consent...

aside speculations about the Risacher camp, I take the link to Bilal to add some more speculations........(would fit better in the trade proposal thread, but anyway...)

we know, that there is this almost life long close friendship between Bilal and Victor. if Bilal was in this years draft, would he be high on the Spurs list? sure he would, not just because it would make Victor happy to reunite with him, but because of the player profile (and personality) of Bilal. where would Bilal go this year? at7? at5? at3? so, what can the Spurs offer that the Wizards make listen? sure, it would take their pick, maybe more. but the Wizards would agree at the right price, especially with Avdija finally live up to expectations and tied up long term. (Deni's best games came with Bilal out and Kispert alongside him in the starting line up)

[BatManu20]

1781321734328860869

[Extra Stout]

Based upon Finger’s article, selecting a PG is likelier than other positions. That suggests Topic is the likeliest pick.

I like Castle, despite his unreliable shot, and his being more of a combo guard.

[Pauleta14]

aside speculations about the Risacher camp, I take the link to Bilal to add some more speculations........(would fit better in the trade proposal thread, but anyway...)

we know, that there is this almost life long close friendship between Bilal and Victor. if Bilal was in this years draft, would he be high on the Spurs list? sure he would, not just because it would make Victor happy to reunite with him, but because of the player profile (and personality) of Bilal. where would Bilal go this year? at7? at5? at3? so, what can the Spurs offer that the Wizards make listen? sure, it would take their pick, maybe more. but the Wizards would agree at the right price, especially with Avdija finally live up to expectations and tied up long term. (Deni's best games came with Bilal out and Kispert alongside him in the starting line up)

I'm not totally convince of the need or importance of pleasing Wemby with a close friend more than the "right" player

If it happens to coincide why not but I don't see him asking for it nor the Spurs actively looking for it

A vet like Batum would make a lot of sense and cover a lot of our needs but PATFO isn't gong to make the Spurs a French disapora roster imo

[jjspur]

Another youngster to develop?

If I was DET I'd hunt for experience and use those picks to trade

With so many young players on the team already, a smart team would probably trade their top 3 pick for some decent veterans and maybe a future pick, but we're talking about Detroit and they don't have a repution for making smart moves.

[sfernald]

aside speculations about the Risacher camp, I take the link to Bilal to add some more speculations........(would fit better in the trade proposal thread, but anyway...)

we know, that there is this almost life long close friendship between Bilal and Victor. if Bilal was in this years draft, would he be high on the Spurs list? sure he would, not just because it would make Victor happy to reunite with him, but because of the player profile (and personality) of Bilal. where would Bilal go this year? at7? at5? at3? so, what can the Spurs offer that the Wizards make listen? sure, it would take their pick, maybe more. but the Wizards would agree at the right price, especially with Avdija finally live up to expectations and tied up long term. (Deni's best games came with Bilal out and Kispert alongside him in the starting line up)

Sorry it’s sort of like 2001: A Space Odyssey, you can have any of those damn planets or moons that you want but don’t fuck with Europa (bilal). He’s probably the only asset there NOT for sale lol.

[Ariel]

I agree with you Ariel in the case of potential star players but Risacher isn't really.

His camp dgaf about money as much as others (father former pro) and REALLY don't want DET or CHA (not sure about WAS bc of Bilal's presence)

Add the fact that he's been far from showcasing himself recently after huge hype... I'm not naturally a conspiracy theorist but it does smell fishy to me
Ironically, I think it would make more sense for Risacher to land in Detroit (already have ball dominant guards to create and bigs to bang inside but lack shooting wings) than Washington (lots of needs but their 2 most important assets going forward are Deni Avdija and Bilal Coulibaly, which roughly occupy the same positions he'd fill). But if he's so adamant about not going to Detroit and Charlotte I doubt he's taking leap of faith, I'd take that as a strong indication he already feels confident he'd be taken somewhere in the high lottery, and the obvious candidate would be the Spurs.

This could work out his way (teams passing on him to avoid an unnecessary risk) but teams can also see that as an opportunity to pry a few assets from the Spurs, so they could take him anyway and force him to negotiate, like Boston did taking Thybulle at 20 when they got wind of Philadelphia targeting him at 21, only to trade him there immediately after, or more recently, Indiana taking Coulibaly at 7 only to move him right away to Washington at 8 for a meagre 2nd round pick. If it becomes too obvious Risacher is holding out for the Spurs, some team might be tempted to pull something like that.

[kobyz]

i think the player we should target is Isaiah Collier, someone we could mold into Jrue Holiday type lead guard and two way player

[Limguogolo]

I suppose it's premature to speculate too much without knowing the order of the lottery yet. Teams cannot project themselves, and therefore cannot promise anything to the players. In this context, it seems totally counterproductive to announce or make it known too early that we are ignoring certain teams. And if his agent has contacts with franchises, the latter would be well advised to specify to the Risacher camp that they had every interest in keeping quiet before knowing the order of the picks. I have never heard a side assert such wishes so early; I could be wrong, but in general, insiders start to review their mock based on the impasses that players in teams may have made juste before the draft, not three months in advance.

These preferences could also be false rumors.

(Risacher would in any case be perfect for the Spurs, but I still stand by my idea of ​​associating Victor with Sarr. On the wing, there would possibly be Salaün with the Toronto pick. For the moment I prefer Salaün to Risacher. He has a raw and physical side like Kawhi Leonard. His ceiling is perhaps more uncertain, but he is a monster.)

[rascal]

I can see the Spurs taking Salaun if the Toronto pick conveys.

[Ariel]

difference between sheppard and a lot of those combo guards is he's not blowing by guys off the dribble like maxey, and he's not overwhelming with size like SGA. he's going to have to be a smaller reaves and really adapt to the pick and roll game. at least he can fall back on the shooting.
Yup, I agree with this. It is not at all about "passing vision" with Reed Sheppard, he's got plenty as can be seen in transition especially. The thing is, he can't beat guys off the dribble because he's neither fast enough nor a good enough ball handler, and those are not so easy to overlook, and he has trouble getting his own shot off unless he's set up, and these 2 don't give me confidence he'll end up a successful PG at the NBA level.

[spurraider21]

1781049469980508542

[Ariel]

(Risacher would in any case be perfect for the Spurs, but I still stand by my idea of ​​associating Victor with Sarr. On the wing, there would possibly be Salaün with the Toronto pick. For the moment I prefer Salaün to Risacher. He has a raw and physical side like Kawhi Leonard. His ceiling is perhaps more uncertain, but he is a monster.)
I'm not sure with Salaun, all I see from him are catch and shoot 3s, straight line drives and dunks, doesn't look like a future star in the making, but maybe it's just my view based on a very limited sample so I'll defer to those who follow him closely.

As for Sarr, I've liked him all along but as the season progressed (and Wemby, specifically) I've began shifting to other prospects who would theoretically make a better fit with him (lead guards and wings who can shoot, like Dillingham and Risacher), but in a draft were there is so much uncertainty and projection, I absolutely can't rule out a 7'1" guy with a 7'4" wingspan who is fluid and moves his feet very well, and that has shown flashes of being able to put the ball on the floor and scoring with skill rather than athleticism or brute force. His FT% isn't bad and his shooting isn't worse than Collier or Buzelis and better than Castle, so if we're going to give others the benefit of the doubt, why not him? His floor is lower than Clingan's (probably the one projected top 10 pick I wouldn't touch), but his ceiling is much higher IMO.

[spurraider21]

im out on Salaun tbh

[barakz21]

With so many young players on the team already, a smart team would probably trade their top 3 pick for some decent veterans and maybe a future pick, but we're talking about Detroit and they don't have a repution for making smart moves.

that franchise has been straight ass since they traded Billups lol

[JPB]

If you wanna know what spurs don't wanna do in any draft, just read what media say they wanna do...

Since when do any report about spurs draft intentions (or any intentions) had any kind of substance? Working or not, they've always been smoke screen happy.

[JPB]

And for the record, I still believe spurs target Risacher.

[scott]

I still see a little glimmer in Nephew (the good traits) in Holland. Wouldn't mind us taking that swing.

[CGD]

that franchise has been straight ass since they traded Billups lol

If you believe these guys, it sounds like DET has all the french players at the top of there big board.

https://youtu.be/AE6BYTKwbOo?feature=shared

[alfahdlan]

1781049469980508542

Steve Nash-ish?
Play fast
Spacing
A dog.

[spurraider21]

This mock has Dillingham to Spurs at 5 and Topic to Raptors at 6. Shannon IL to Spurs at 35.

https://www.si.com/nba/draft/2024-nba-mock-draft-big-board-playoffs-postseason
i like dillingham. thought experiment is who else the spurs grab if they got the #7 or #8 pick from toronto as well. in a draft where risacher/holland/buzelis are all off the board before even the spurs natural pick, not sure what the natural follow up is to a dillingham pick. castle? cody williams maybe, i dno.

going off what DAF said in the other thread, i ideally would like a combo of:

1 of the kentucky gaurds
1 of the following wings - risacher, holland, buzelis

wildcard is how the FO feels about Sarr/Wemby fit

[objective]

More I watch Buzelis the more he looks like Samanic Jr.

Before I just noticed his bad shooting and attitude.

Then the more I watched I saw more Samanic in his game. Short arms. Drive and spin into a shot. The spin was the go to move. Just shorter and lighter with a tinier waist

Some of his contesting is nice and would be useful but on the whole I just am not a fan

[Ariel]

i like dillingham. thought experiment is who else the spurs grab if they got the #7 or #8 pick from toronto as well. in a draft where risacher/holland/buzelis are all off the board before even the spurs natural pick, not sure what the natural follow up is to a dillingham pick. castle? cody williams maybe, i dno.

going off what DAF said in the other thread, i ideally would like a combo of:

1 of the kentucky gaurds
1 of the following wings - risacher, holland, buzelis

wildcard is how the FO feels about Sarr/Wemby fit
In terms of talent is Sarr is there at 7 and 8 you DO NOT pass on him because of fit, I'd hope it isn't the case that we get 2 picks and all wings are gone, but if they are, I'd go Dillingham + Castle, or trade down to pick up Salaun / Knecht, or just trade out.

[Frenchfred]

Steve Nash-ish?
Play fast
Spacing
A dog.

not sure that he can average 10 assists/game in the NBA but probably a better defender than Nash.

[Dejounte]

Updated tiers:

Tier 1 (Chance to fit in right away and likely to show star potential)
-Castle
-Buzelis
-Dilly
-Collier

Tier 2 (Day 1 Contributors but each have clear flaws in their game that may prevent them from being stars)
-Sheppard
-Risacher
-Topic
-Dalton

Tier 3 (Raw players who may be a good role player by year 3 )
-Sarr
-Cody Williams
-Salaun

Tier 4 (Busts)
-Jakobe Walter

[scott]

Updated tiers:

Tier 1 (Chance to fit in right away and likely to show star potential)
-Castle
-Buzelis
-Dilly
-Collier

Tier 2 (Day 1 Contributors but each have clear flaws in their game that may prevent them from being stars)
-Sheppard
-Risacher
-Topic
-Dalton

Tier 3 (Raw players who may be a good role player by year 3 )
-Sarr
-Cody Williams
-Salaun

Tier 4 (Busts)
-Jakobe Walter

Holland?

[Dejounte]

Holland?Guy is an X Factor and is in tier 2 right now but can make a leap to tier 1 if I find something I like with more viewing.

[sfernald]

dallas moved off of bertans, moved back, and still got Lively. masterclass. they then bought another FRP from sacto for fairly cheap, tho Propser didnt do much as a rook

The thing is if you wanna move back in this draft, Okc is either #12 or #11 depending on if Chicago beats hobbled Miami tonight. And moving up in the draft is Presti’s M.O. So assuming Presti has his heart set on a particular player, something like #6 or #7 for #11 or #12 + Gleague finals MVP and Champion Dieng. There’s not roster room for Dieng to play right now on Okc but he looks absolutely awesome in the gleague and I think he would fit with Wemby amazingly well.

[alfahdlan]

not sure that he can average 10 assists/game in the NBA but probably a better defender than Nash.
Remember he shared the assists chores with dilly and dilly gets good assists number because he was the receiver.

[scott]

Good news for our ATL25-27 picks, SAC surprisingly losing versus the Pelicans means that the pick the Kings owe the Hawks will not convey. That pick looked a lock to convey through most of the season, so that’s got to really sting for Atlanta, but good for us!

[objective]

Is it unreasonable to think that the 2 Kentucky guys might have that leaps to make with real coaching and not Calipari nonsense? Did he even prep his team for the tourny before slinking off to another school?

I know the reputation Kentucky guards who are first rounders have, but is it more pronounced this year as Calipari declined into old age?

I watched the high school game of Shepperd vs Bronny and he was like the same player, couldn't really think of what he's improved in.

Would NBA coaching make Sheppard and Dillingham have higher ceilings than other prospects?

[CorrectCrusader]

Is it unreasonable to think that the 2 Kentucky guys might have that leaps to make with real coaching and not Calipari nonsense? Did he even prep his team for the tourny before slinking off to another school?

I know the reputation Kentucky guards who are first rounders have, but is it more pronounced this year as Calipari declined into old age?

I watched the high school game of Shepperd vs Bronny and he was like the same player, couldn't really think of what he's improved in.

Would NBA coaching make Sheppard and Dillingham have higher ceilings than other prospects?

I think both those guards have incredible ceilings offensively.

[JPB]

Moving back from 10 to 12 or 7 to 8 is on thing, moving back from a top 5 or all the more a top 3 pick is another one

[Pauleta14]

Is it unreasonable to think that the 2 Kentucky guys might have that leaps to make with real coaching and not Calipari nonsense? Did he even prep his team for the tourny before slinking off to another school?

I know the reputation Kentucky guards who are first rounders have, but is it more pronounced this year as Calipari declined into old age?

I watched the high school game of Shepperd vs Bronny and he was like the same player, couldn't really think of what he's improved in.

Would NBA coaching make Sheppard and Dillingham have higher ceilings than other prospects?

Not unreasonnable at all imo...

Saw a video recently recapitulating all the former KU guards in the NBA and it's an impressive list.

KU scouting is elite, they rarely miss

[spursparker9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TUVbdWrbTU

[Strategic]

The thing is if you wanna move back in this draft, Okc is either #12 or #11 depending on if Chicago beats hobbled Miami tonight. And moving up in the draft is Presti’s M.O. So assuming Presti has his heart set on a particular player, something like #6 or #7 for #11 or #12 + Gleague finals MVP and Champion Dieng. There’s not roster room for Dieng to play right now on Okc but he looks absolutely awesome in the gleague and I think he would fit with Wemby amazingly well. Presti might laugh at anything the Spurs have to offer. Aside from Wemby, the Thunder and okc blue look better at every position and they still don’t need extra draft picks. Dieng does look like he has a future in the league.

[sfernald]

Presti might laugh at anything the Spurs have to offer. Aside from Wemby, the Thunder and okc blue look better at every position and they still don’t need extra draft picks. Dieng does look like he has a future in the league.

Yeah spurs don’t really have any players Okc would want. But if Presti sees the next potential Jalen Williams or perfect final piece in this draft and he can snag him at #7 then that is enough for spurs to snag a nice return. Presti is in overpay mode to get what he wants. The rich can afford it.

[JPB]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TUVbdWrbTU

Edey is too slow for today's NBA and its mobile, athletic bigs. The game is gonna terribly accelarate for him and he's not exactly a stretch big.

[sfernald]

Edey is too slow for today's NBA and its mobile, athletic bigs. The game is gonna terribly accelarare for him and he's not exactly a stretch big.

I don’t know about Edey, but if he falls to #35 why not? I just really hope they use all 3-4 draft picks and replace the bottom four players with them. Cut graham, bassey and Wesley. Replace with the first round picks and the first second round pick. And then use the last second round pick for a fresh two way. Time to find some diamonds in the rough.

[SpursBills]

I actually like Holland a lot more than I liked Kuminga in 2021. Their numbers look similar on paper, but Holland to me has a lot more suddenness and lateral agility to his game while Kuminga had more power. I worry about his rim finishing - even though the guy is an automatic paint touch, he shot 57% at the rim in a league where there is basically no paint protection.

The main argument for Holland from my perspective is this:
Elite draft prospects are a combination of 3 things:
1. Youth
2. Physical tools
3. Production against similar age or more mature prospects

In spite of his sometimes bonehaded plays and terrible outside shooting, Holland is probably the guy in the draft that best combines the 3. He'll still be 18 on draft night. His athleticism clearly pops given his first step, lateral quickness, and transition finishing (To me it's a wash between him and Dunn as the best athlete in the draft). And despite being put in a role that he clearly wasn't used to, he put up decent numbers against more mature competition. He actually did way better as a first-time primary initiator than I expected for an 18 year old, especially for a guy who was playing really without a point guard for most of the year and who played his entire high school career as an energy/glue guy/finisher. And he did improve over the course of the year; during the regular season his FT% was 76% while he put up a positive AS:TO. He shot poorly, but his form looks pretty good on his jumper as long as he corrects his base a little. And given his youth, you'd expect the rim finishing, handle, and jumper to improve over time especially as he gains more strength.

Compared to Kuminga, he shoots FTs better and has a higher motor both on tape and based on his metrics given his high OREB% and high STL%. Between that and his lateral agility and better defense, I think there's a good chance he turns out better than Kuminga down the line. Most reasonable estimate of his measurements are 6'7-6'8" with shoes and 6'10-6'11" wingspan which is decent for a wing especially with his athleticism. I think he's a perfectly reasonable top 3-5 pick in most drafts because of this so getting him anywhere outside the top 4 is probably a steal.

As an aside, you can very easily envision the play style that the Spurs would have if they took Holland and Sheppard. 2 elite perimeter defenders (Holland to guard the quick wings and guards, Sochan to guard the strong wings) in front of a Wemby backline. A defense focused on turnover generation and playing the passing lanes between Sheppard and Holland, both of whom had elite STL%, who have full license to gamble with Wemby behind them. An elite shooting PG who excels at hit-ahead passes in transition and pushing the pace synergizing with an athletic wing who excels in transition finishing. Sheppard's lack of advantage creation in the half court being covered up by Holland's ability to generate paint touches allowing him to function as an off-ball shooter. It's an interesting combo that I haven't thought about before but definitely seems appealing.

[Degoat]

I’m confident the spurs will draft the right guy, this is the type of draft they find their George Hill/Derrick White in hopefully.

im warming up to the prospects we just can’t expect any Stardom but if we find a solid starter it’s a win

[baseline bum]

I’m confident the spurs will draft the right guy, this is the type of draft they find their George Hill/Derrick White in hopefully.

im warming up to the prospects we just can’t expect any Stardom but if we find a solid starter it’s a win

Hope it's more White and less Hill.

[ambchang]

The league has really moved more towards skilled players over physically dominant players. Obviously there’s a minimum threshold for physical attributes and all things being equal the more physically gifted a player is the better. But if all the top players in the league, Luka and sga are not physically overwhelming. Jokic is big but slow and can barely jump over a phone book. Tatum Sabonis and Brunson are all relatively normalbby nba standards. Sure players like Giannis, embiid and morant are freaks of nature but these are all players with strong skill basis.


My point is as long as we can get someone who is moderately physically gifted but has a good skill set to build upon then they have a chance to excel. I do like Shepard a lot and thinks he could be reddick 2.0. Not a huge fan of buzelis or topic. At all.


Sarr I don’t know. But the spurs likely won’t even have the chance.

Note: a player has to be not short though. Brunson is really an exception

[onechance87]

I’m confident the spurs will draft the right guy, this is the type of draft they find their George Hill/Derrick White in hopefully.

im warming up to the prospects we just can’t expect any Stardom but if we find a solid starter it’s a win

im not.Other then wemby the spurs last few years of draft picks have been bad.The spurs scouts better be on their
a game in this draft.

[JPB]

I’m confident the spurs will draft the right guy, this is the type of draft they find their George Hill/Derrick White in hopefully.

im warming up to the prospects we just can’t expect any Stardom but if we find a solid starter it’s a win

Telling about spurs recent draft record that you had to go back 7 years ago...

[Degoat]

Telling about spurs recent draft record that you had to go back 7 years ago...

Both Sochan and Vassell were good picks… Go hate on Reddit or something

[LeBowen]

If anyone still thinks drafting guards that can't shoot is fine in 2024, they should tune in to this Magic game.

[KobesAchilles]

Both Sochan and Vassell were good picks… Go hate on Reddit or something
We passed on Haliburton who was ours for the taking. So no it wasn’t a good pick. We have Wemby now so it covered that mistake by Wrong. But he can’t make the same mistake twice. It’s on him to ensure that nobody after our pick does better than who get.

[Degoat]

We passed on Haliburton who was ours for the taking. So no it wasn’t a good pick. We have Wemby now so it covered that mistake by Wrong. But he can’t make the same mistake twice. It’s on him to ensure that nobody after our pick does better than who get.

In every single draft you could say we passed on so and so for this guy, if we had Halliburton we wouldn’t have wemby right now so your logic is pointless.

[LeBowen]

In every single draft you could say we passed on so and so for this guy, if we had Halliburton we wouldn’t have wemby right now so your logic is stupid.

It's not about the logic of passing on someone, it's about evaluating our front office's competence in the draft.
Right now the truth is that their asses were saved by 14% odds last year. Imagine if we didn't have Wemby. Would've probably been worse than process Sixers and two years away from being two years away.
Don't forget that we were in the lottery for 4 straight seasons before this one.

I'm not taking Devin pick against them, we had both DJ and Derrick on the roster at the time, drafting Haliburton wasn't an option.
The issue is that Spurs were everyone's pick for best drafting franchise for almost two decades and right now we're average at best. If that.

2018 - Lonnie already out of the league for all intents and purposes. Still, this one was understandable. Lonnie was ridiculously athletic, had picture perfect jumper, just never put it together.
2019- Picked Samanic, a player noone ever heard of. Inexcusable. Keldon pick saved the draft, but still.
2020 - Wright's best draft. Devin and Tre were great picks.
2021 - Primo being an exhibitionist saved their asses and gave them an excuse. He was trash and would be out of the league, either way. We all expected Sengun pick, but for some reason this was the one draft they didn't go for an European prospect.
2022 - Jeremy is a solid pick, but also a fundamentally flawed player. Forward that couldn't shoot whatsoever. He's making progress, but on the other hand there's Jalen Williams picked three spots later and is a perfect player for the modern NBA. Branham and Wesley are failed picks already. Braun and Kessler were picked right after Branham, way better picks. Nikola Jovic was picked after both Branham and Wesley and is contributing on a contender.

Now please do elaborate why do you think there's cause for optimism in such awful draft full of fundamentally flawed players?

[NASpurs]

If anyone still thinks drafting guards that can't shoot is fine in 2024, they should tune in to this Magic game.

I can't wait until we draft our next "he can't shoot but can defend. Maybe he'll learn how to shoot in 3 years" or "he can shoot but can't defend. Maybe he can become an average defender in 3 years".

[spurraider21]

In every single draft you could say we passed on so and so for this guy, if we had Halliburton we wouldn’t have wemby right now so your logic is pointless.
The point is about their draft evaluations and not butterfly effects of ingenuously making subpar picks for the master plan of getting wemby 3 years later

[Degoat]

It's not about the logic of passing on someone, it's about evaluating our front office's competence in the draft.
Right now the truth is that their asses were saved by 14% odds last year. Imagine if we didn't have Wemby. Would've probably been worse than process Sixers and two years away from being two years away.
Don't forget that we were in the lottery for 4 straight seasons before this one.

I'm not taking Devin pick against them, we had both DJ and Derrick on the roster at the time, drafting Haliburton wasn't an option.
The issue is that Spurs were everyone's pick for best drafting franchise for almost two decades and right now we're average at best. If that.

2018 - Lonnie already out of the league for all intents and purposes. Still, this one was understandable. Lonnie was ridiculously athletic, had picture perfect jumper, just never put it together.
2019- Picked Samanic, a player noone ever heard of. Inexcusable. Keldon pick saved the draft, but still.
2020 - Wright's best draft. Devin and Tre were great picks.
2021 - Primo being an exhibitionist saved their asses and gave them an excuse. He was trash and would be out of the league, either way. We all expected Sengun pick, but for some reason this was the one draft they didn't go for an European prospect.
2022 - Jeremy is a solid pick, but also a fundamentally flawed player. Forward that couldn't shoot whatsoever. He's making progress, but on the other hand there's Jalen Williams picked three spots later and is a perfect player for the modern NBA. Branham and Wesley are failed picks already. Braun and Kessler were picked right after Branham, way better picks. Nikola Jovic was picked after both Branham and Wesley and is contributing on a contender.

Now please do elaborate why do you think there's cause for optimism in such awful draft full of fundamentally flawed players?


2016- Dejounte (All star PG)
2017- DWhite (one of the best Role players in the league)
2018- Lonnie (was considered by almost EVERYONE a steal at the time.
2019- Luka was a bust, Keldon was a steal!
2020- Devin (20 ppg scorer) tre (considered to be a great backup PG)
2021- Primo (bust- but will never truly know after he flashed his dick)
2022- Sochan (made an all rookie team, at worst is a solid 5th starter)
2023- Wemby (rookie of the year). Sidy (looks like a solid developmental wing)

Name me a franchise that has a better track record then the spurs at drafting, I’ll wait…

You say Branham and Wesley are failed picks? Branham will have a nba career that surpasses his time as a spur, Wesley was raw as a prospect and is showing signs of improvement.

You mention Jovic contributing on a contender he scored 5 points in their play in game vs the bulls, what a pick!!

You look all around the league, every team will have blunders in their draft, spurs however have a consistent rate at finding guys. Let’s not forget about the spurs finding guys like Mamu, Julian Champagne too

[NASpurs]

Saying that, now that we have Wemby and the organization isn't rudderless anymore, they can start drafting as to what type of players Wemby needs around him.

[spurraider21]

My big board right now (excluding Sarr) is

Risacher
Sheppard/Dillingham (can’t decide here)
Holland
Topic
Collier
Buzelis
Castle
Williams

if we get 2 picks, would ideally come away with one guy who can be developed as a lead guard. I’m skeptical of whether Castle qualifies as such

Sarr is a wildcard because it all depends on whether he can coexist with Wemby and i just don’t know. Leaning against it though. No to Clingan and fuck no to Edey

[BackHome]

I actually like Holland a lot more than I liked Kuminga in 2021. Their numbers look similar on paper, but Holland to me has a lot more suddenness and lateral agility to his game while Kuminga had more power. I worry about his rim finishing - even though the guy is an automatic paint touch, he shot 57% at the rim in a league where there is basically no paint protection.

The main argument for Holland from my perspective is this:
Elite draft prospects are a combination of 3 things:
1. Youth
2. Physical tools
3. Production against similar age or more mature prospects

In spite of his sometimes bonehaded plays and terrible outside shooting, Holland is probably the guy in the draft that best combines the 3. He'll still be 18 on draft night. His athleticism clearly pops given his first step, lateral quickness, and transition finishing (To me it's a wash between him and Dunn as the best athlete in the draft). And despite being put in a role that he clearly wasn't used to, he put up decent numbers against more mature competition. He actually did way better as a first-time primary initiator than I expected for an 18 year old, especially for a guy who was playing really without a point guard for most of the year and who played his entire high school career as an energy/glue guy/finisher. And he did improve over the course of the year; during the regular season his FT% was 76% while he put up a positive AS:TO. He shot poorly, but his form looks pretty good on his jumper as long as he corrects his base a little. And given his youth, you'd expect the rim finishing, handle, and jumper to improve over time especially as he gains more strength.

Compared to Kuminga, he shoots FTs better and has a higher motor both on tape and based on his metrics given his high OREB% and high STL%. Between that and his lateral agility and better defense, I think there's a good chance he turns out better than Kuminga down the line. Most reasonable estimate of his measurements are 6'7-6'8" with shoes and 6'10-6'11" wingspan which is decent for a wing especially with his athleticism. I think he's a perfectly reasonable top 3-5 pick in most drafts because of this so getting him anywhere outside the top 4 is probably a steal.

As an aside, you can very easily envision the play style that the Spurs would have if they took Holland and Sheppard. 2 elite perimeter defenders (Holland to guard the quick wings and guards, Sochan to guard the strong wings) in front of a Wemby backline. A defense focused on turnover generation and playing the passing lanes between Sheppard and Holland, both of whom had elite STL%, who have full license to gamble with Wemby behind them. An elite shooting PG who excels at hit-ahead passes in transition and pushing the pace synergizing with an athletic wing who excels in transition finishing. Sheppard's lack of advantage creation in the half court being covered up by Holland's ability to generate paint touches allowing him to function as an off-ball shooter. It's an interesting combo that I haven't thought about before but definitely seems appealing.

Excellent write up - This is why I hate this draft as any educated post can make me change my mind on a player liking them or not liking them. This is the only draft where I just have no one I really like and have no idea who we are going to pick. I saw one Youtuber talk about how Holland would be a good pick if his first year you just told him to play great defense and run the court hard and go for easy transition buckets and backdoor cuts. The second year you have him do the same but have him shooting more mid shots with a few three balls and the third year focus on his three ball shooting...
I have seen Holland all the way from the 3rd picks to all the way down to 14th pick in mocks.

[BackHome]

My big board right now (excluding Sarr) is

Risacher
Sheppard/Dillingham (can’t decide here)
Holland
Topic
Collier
Buzelis
Castle
Williams

if we get 2 picks, would ideally come away with one guy who can be developed as a lead guard. I’m skeptical of whether Castle qualifies as such

Sarr is a wildcard because it all depends on whether he can coexist with Wemby and i just don’t know. Leaning against it though. No to Clingan and fuck no to Edey

A player I am starting to think is going to move up close to lottery is PF/C- Tyler Smith a big guy 6'11 who played with Matas and usually outplayed him for most of the season. What are your thoughts on this kid?

[KobesAchilles]

In every single draft you could say we passed on so and so for this guy, if we had Halliburton we wouldn’t have wemby right now so your logic is pointless.
You learning how to read is a more important point. I literally said that Wemby covered Wrongs bad pick. However, there is no fix for the this pick. So he needs to get it right this time. The every other draft argument is bullshit bc the Spurs have only had 4 other top 5 picks in its whole history. Teams are built by picking the right guy. Loser franchises get the picks wrong.

[BackHome]

Tankathon has Risacher number #2 on there board but I can not remember a time that when looking at there evaluation they have only 1 Strength for him to go with 10 Stat Weaknesses. It may mean nothing but I can not ever remember a time seeing that for such a high pick.

[LeBowen]

Name me a franchise that has a better track record then the spurs at drafting, I’ll wait…

Why are you listing DJ and Derrick? That was before Wright took over.
Memphis nailed their picks and have howmegrown big3.
Denver's drafted their core 3.
Toronto's drafting is great, it's just that Masai couldn't get over himself after the nephew trade.
Do I need to say anything about Heat and their scouting? They don't miss.


You say Branham and Wesley are failed picks? Branham will have a nba career that surpasses his time as a spur

Lonnie was showing way more promise than Branham and he's done.
Branham is the most common archetype in the league. Shooting guard that's supposed to be a good score and doesn't do much else. You can find those everywhere.
He's a horrid defender, doesn't have good playmaking instincts and is showing no signs that he could become a sharpshooting specialist.


Wesley was raw as a prospect and is showing signs of improvement.

Get over him, man. It's been two seasons and he still can't shoot whatsoever and has no handles. He's got wingspan and some defensive instincts, but his IQ is low.
He's most definitely not an NBA player. But still, I can understand Wesley pick more than Branham pick. Wesley was supposed to be the next DJ, I can see the similarities.
But drafting Branham when we already had Devin on the roster is really questionable.


You mention Jovic contributing on a contender he scored 5 points in their play in game vs the bulls, what a pick!!

Do you actually watch games or just box scores?
Jovic isn't a superstar in the making, but he's a 6'10 forward who's good at handling the ball for his size, can shoot and isn't a defensive sieve.
Most importantly, he has good basketball IQ unlike our two picks.


You look all around the league, every team will have blunders in their draft

Of course. That's why I said I don't blame them for missing out on Haliburton and drafting Lonnie.
Those picks made sense.
But Samanic and Primo were obviously bad picks before we ever saw those two play.
Attempted masterstrokes with PATFO thinking they're smarter than everyone.


spurs however have a consistent rate at finding guys. Let’s not forget about the spurs finding guys like Mamu, Julian Champagne too

What exactly did they find? Mamu has looked good only because every other forward has negative IQ.
His offensive game is solid, but unless he develops a consistent 3pt shot he'll never be a rotation player on a playoff team because he's a defensive sieve, almost as bad as Collins on that end.
Champagnie's deal is great, we can hope he gets more consistent, but it's not like they found a legit 3-D player. Right now he wouldn't be in the rotation of any playoff team.
And that's the issue with a lot of Spurs fans I talk with. Most people don't watch games around the league and grasp for straws when it comes to our players and their potential. As soon as someone makes a couple of layups or wide open threes, people start thinking we're onto something and that they'll develop into legit NBA players.

Then you look at the contracts Wright handed out last summer.
Even though it's an overpay as thing stands now, I can understand them showing trust in Devin.
But Collins? Like what the hell? Why? Unexplainable.

To end on a positive note, Wright has been really good at getting assets. Great salesman, value he got for players we traded away is amazing.
But now it's time to buy. Maybe not this summer, but definitely the next one. We won't build the entire roster through draft. We'll need a handful of good players via trades or FA and a legit running mate for Wemby.
I'm kind of not optimistic about that part.

[spurraider21]

A player I am starting to think is going to move up close to lottery is PF/C- Tyler Smith a big guy 6'11 who played with Matas and usually outplayed him for most of the season. What are your thoughts on this kid?
He’s fine. Chinook had his offseason scenario where we made a trade landing is i believe the #22 or so pick and took Smith there. I think that’s a perfectly good scenario. I don’t know if i like him as much as the guys on my list.

also starting to lean sheppard over dilly…

[Degoat]

Why are you listing DJ and Derrick? That was before Wright took over.
Memphis nailed their picks and have howmegrown big3.
Denver's drafted their core 3.
Toronto's drafting is great, it's just that Masai couldn't get over himself after the nephew trade.
Do I need to say anything about Heat and their scouting? They don't miss.



Lonnie was showing way more promise than Branham and he's done.
Branham is the most common archetype in the league. Shooting guard that's supposed to be a good score and doesn't do much else. You can find those everywhere.
He's a horrid defender, doesn't have good playmaking instincts and is showing no signs that he could become a sharpshooting specialist.



Get over him, man. It's been two seasons and he still can't shoot whatsoever and has no handles. He's got wingspan and some defensive instincts, but his IQ is low.
He's most definitely not an NBA player. But still, I can understand Wesley pick more than Branham pick. Wesley was supposed to be the next DJ, I can see the similarities.
But drafting Branham when we already had Devin on the roster is really questionable.



Do you actually watch games or just box scores?
Jovic isn't a superstar in the making, but he's a 6'10 forward who's good at handling the ball for his size, can shoot and isn't a defensive sieve.
Most importantly, he has good basketball IQ unlike our two picks.



Of course. That's why I said I don't blame them for missing out on Haliburton and drafting Lonnie.
Those picks made sense.
But Samanic and Primo were obviously bad picks before we ever saw those two play.
Attempted masterstrokes with PATFO thinking they're smarter than everyone.



What exactly did they find? Mamu has looked good only because every other forward has negative IQ.
His offensive game is solid, but unless he develops a consistent 3pt shot he'll never be a rotation player on a playoff team because he's a defensive sieve, almost as bad as Collins on that end.
Champagnie's deal is great, we can hope he gets more consistent, but it's not like they found a legit 3-D player. Right now he wouldn't be in the rotation of any playoff team.
And that's the issue with a lot of Spurs fans I talk with. Most people don't watch games around the league and grasp for straws when it comes to our players and their potential. As soon as someone makes a couple of layups or wide open threes, people start thinking we're onto something and that they'll develop into legit NBA players.

Then you look at the contracts Wright handed out last summer.
Even though it's an overpay as thing stands now, I can understand them showing trust in Devin.
But Collins? Like what the hell? Why? Unexplainable.

To end on a positive note, Wright has been really good at getting assets. Great salesman, value he got for players we traded away is amazing.
But now it's time to buy. Maybe not this summer, but definitely the next one. We won't build the entire roster through draft. We'll need a handful of good players via trades or FA and a legit running mate for Wemby.
I'm kind of not optimistic about that part.

If you think Wright is solely in charge of all the spurs moves, you’re an idiot… it’s the spurs brass as group that makes decisions including Pop, RC, Manu, Barry, and a whole bunch of others that helped bring 5 championships to SA. If you just look at the spurs 4 lottery picks since we’ve started to really struggle lately we’ve hit on 3 out of 4, I’ll take that everytime. If as a fan you hold the fact that Branham, Wesley or Primo didn’t progress or weren’t good “evaluation picks” and makes you distrust the FO, go root for another team I guess. I trust the spurs to make the right decision because they have more times than not.

[SpursBills]

Excellent write up - This is why I hate this draft as any educated post can make me change my mind on a player liking them or not liking them. This is the only draft where I just have no one I really like and have no idea who we are going to pick. I saw one Youtuber talk about how Holland would be a good pick if his first year you just told him to play great defense and run the court hard and go for easy transition buckets and backdoor cuts. The second year you have him do the same but have him shooting more mid shots with a few three balls and the third year focus on his three ball shooting...
I have seen Holland all the way from the 3rd picks to all the way down to 14th pick in mocks.

Yeah, every time I convince myself that Holland is going to be a better version of Kuminga or Jaylen Brown, I also think of a downside comp for him. As a young high motor versatile forward with good defense, great intangibles, a sprinkle of playmaking potential, and a questionable shot, his closest comp in recent years to me is probably Justise Winslow - who I honestly thought was going to be a stud. Unfortunately we found out that Winslow's outside shooting in college was a mirage and he had significant difficulty finishing around the basket - one of my main concerns about Holland. Even before his injuries Winslow was just kind of a middling player that was a good defender but was an offensive liability, and that'd be my worry with Holland.

[Degoat]

You learning how to read is a more important point. I literally said that Wemby covered Wrongs bad pick. However, there is no fix for the this pick. So he needs to get it right this time. The every other draft argument is bullshit bc the Spurs have only had 4 other top 5 picks in its whole history. Teams are built by picking the right guy. Loser franchises get the picks wrong.

“However, there is no fix for the this pick.” Good grammar…

Making sure that whoever the spurs draft is better than anybody who is drafted behind them is impossible, every team has different big boards, the jury isn’t even out yet if Haliburton is better then Devin, he probably is but at the time the spurs didnt need a PG!

[LeBowen]

If you think Wright is solely in charge of all the spurs moves, you’re an idiot…

If you think that telling people they're idiots is fine, you can go fuck yourself.


it’s the spurs brass as group that makes decisions including Pop, RC, Manu, Barry, and a whole bunch of others that helped bring 5 championships to SA.

Yeah, let's hold onto ancient history and not the past 6 years since nephew ruined everything and it's become obvious that they're not on the level they used to be.


If you just look at the spurs 4 lottery picks since we’ve started to really struggle lately we’ve hit on 3 out of 4, I’ll take that everytime.

What exactly did we hit?
Are you seriously going to call Wemby pick a hit? The easiest draft decision since AD.
Is Sochan a hit? Right now he's an average defender at best (his main upside on draft day), we've all seen his playmaking skills at work and he can't shoot.
Mamu is an obviously inferior player to Sochan and yet our entire team looked way more fluid with Mamu than Sochan just because he's got solid passing IQ and doesn't attempt the most ridiculous plays in the paint.
Devin was a hit until they gave him a $150M deal. If he doesn't take another big step, he's not worth the money. You can find 20ppg scorers that dont' do much else and aren't anything special on defense for way less.


If as a fan you hold the fact that Branham, Wesley or Primo didn’t progress or weren’t good “evaluation picks” and makes you distrust the FO, go root for another team I guess. I trust the spurs to make the right decision because they have more times than not.

You trust the Spurs because you're a blind homer with no basketball knowledge whatsoever.
And sniffers like yourself are the reason why this franchise has been in the shitter for 5 years up until 14% luck struck yet again. Do you realize that the amazing front office you're advocating for currently holds the second longest lottery streak after the Hornets? Do you realize that we would've probably broken Hornets and process Sixers records for worst season in NBA history if not for that 14% luck? If we didn't get Wemby, we would be stuck with one of those Thompson twins that can't shoot whatsoever and would be two years away from being two years away. And it would've most likely been fatal for the franchise.

Do you realize that you're claiming PATFO made more good than bad decisions while talking about people who tried to compete and kept Bryn fucking Forbes in the starting lineup for two straight season. Always praised for their character judgement. Too bad Bryn turned out to be a women abuser.
You probably think that it was their masterstroke not to tank, but to trade for career loser Demar Derozan instead of way better offers just because they knew they'd get a kid that was 14 at the time in 2023 lottery.
All the fucking Patty, Bryn, Marco lineups and people like yourself who probably didn't even watch most games since we fell out of the playoffs come in and say they trust PATFO.
Do you realize that they gave 32 million to Zach Collins. Who the hell was lining up to pry away Zach fucking Collins for us at that price?

Many dynasties in world of sports fell apart and never returned to their previous level because of the very same people that brought them to the top. Everyone has their expiry date, it's only natural. But most of those people just can't realize when it's enough and carry on way past that expiry date and at that point it's too late.
Spurs are the luckiest franchise in the entire league, just got a potential GOAT player and if you think that Brian Wright is to be fully trusted with no skepticism, then I don't know what to tell you other than you're a blind homer that doesn't know shit about basketball.

I'm not calling for anyone's head, I'm hoping for the best, but if your only argument is to keep calm and trust people that have been making horrible mistakes over the past years, then you should go to reddit or twitter, that's where blind homers reside.
Let us haters have this last bastion of free speech when it comes to Spurs fandom.

Rant over.

[Degoat]

If you think that telling people they're idiots is fine, you can go fuck yourself.



Yeah, let's hold onto ancient history and not the past 6 years since nephew ruined everything and it's become obvious that they're not on the level they used to be.



What exactly did we hit?
Are you seriously going to call Wemby pick a hit? The easiest draft decision since AD.
Is Sochan a hit? Right now he's an average defender at best (his main upside on draft day), we've all seen his playmaking skills at work and he can't shoot.
Mamu is an obviously inferior player to Sochan and yet our entire team looked way more fluid with Mamu than Sochan just because he's got solid passing IQ and doesn't attempt the most ridiculous plays in the paint.
Devin was a hit until they gave him a $150M deal. If he doesn't take another big step, he's not worth the money. You can find 20ppg scorers that dont' do much else and aren't anything special on defense for way less.



You trust the Spurs because you're a blind homer with no basketball knowledge whatsoever.
And sniffers like yourself are the reason why this franchise has been in the shitter for 5 years up until 14% luck struck yet again. Do you realize that the amazing front office you're advocating for currently holds the second longest lottery streak after the Hornets? Do you realize that we would've probably broken Hornets and process Sixers records for worst season in NBA history if not for that 14% luck? If we didn't get Wemby, we would be stuck with one of those Thompson twins that can't shoot whatsoever and would be two years away from being two years away. And it would've most likely been fatal for the franchise.

Do you realize that you're claiming PATFO made more good than bad decisions while talking about people who tried to compete and kept Bryn fucking Forbes in the starting lineup for two straight season. Always praised for their character judgement. Too bad Bryn turned out to be a women abuser.
You probably think that it was their masterstroke not to tank, but to trade for career loser Demar Derozan instead of way better offers just because they knew they'd get a kid that was 14 at the time in 2023 lottery.
All the fucking Patty, Bryn, Marco lineups and people like yourself who probably didn't even watch most games since we fell out of the playoffs come in and say they trust PATFO.
Do you realize that they gave 32 million to Zach Collins. Who the hell was lining up to pry away Zach fucking Collins for us at that price?

Many dynasties in world of sports fell apart and never returned to their previous level because of the very same people that brought them to the top. Everyone has their expiry date, it's only natural. But most of those people just can't realize when it's enough and carry on way past that expiry date and at that point it's too late.
Spurs are the luckiest franchise in the entire league, just got a potential GOAT player and if you think that Brian Wright is to be fully trusted with no skepticism, then I don't know what to tell you other than you're a blind homer that doesn't know shit about basketball.

I'm not calling for anyone's head, I'm hoping for the best, but if your only argument is to keep calm and trust people that have been making horrible mistakes over the past years, then you should go to reddit or twitter, that's where blind homers reside.
Let us haters have this last bastion of free speech when it comes to Spurs fandom.

Rant over.

Oh I’m sorry, didn’t know the “I word” would trigger you, this is a spurs fan site, of course I’m a homer this is for SPURS FANS!!! It seems like you expect things to change tomorrow and that’s not going to happen, I expect the spurs to slow build this thing. Sorry to burst your bubble but everyone that works with the spurs is more qualified and has more basketball knowledge in their pinky than anybody on this board including you. The spurs have endless possibilities with Wemby on the team in part because wemby is HIM but also all the draft capital & cap space available. Sit back and enjoy the ride, in Pop we trust.

[Dejounte]

“And sniffers like yourself are the reason why this franchise has been in the shitter for 5 years up until 14% luck struck yet again.”
LeBowen I read up until here and I hope you realize soon that sniffers don’t control what this franchise does nor do they have any influence. That’s just ridiculous.

[Limguogolo]

If you're looking for a shooter/defender, late first round, second round, there's Melvin Ajinca that Victor must know well. He was an offensive leader with Zach Perrin (not Sarr or Risacher, in the same team) last year when the French U19 team finished with a silver medal at the world championship by beating Team USA in the semi-final. He just scored 19pts with 4/10 from three points. (He even appears to have attempted a missed three-point pull-up shot like Victor last year. Apparently, because the national championship games are not broadcast in France.)

[Dejounte]

It’s statements like that that make me wonder if people actually know the team they’re following, tbh. Did you pick a team out of the blue? One would think that the reason someone starts following a team is because they agree with the org’s principles & decision-making behind their success. Or is it just surface-level fandom where they were winning at a certain point and you decided to bandwagon? Or they had one player (Timmy obviously) you had adoration for but now he’s gone? Nothing’s forcing you to continue following a team that your favorite player once played for. If it isn’t the team’s core principles you’re following them for, then what’s the point of staying? To torture yourself day by day?

[LeBowen]

Oh I’m sorry, didn’t know the “I word” would trigger you, this is a spurs fan site, of course I’m a homer this is for SPURS FANS!!! It seems like you expect things to change tomorrow and that’s not going to happen, I expect the spurs to slow build this thing. Sorry to burst your bubble but everyone that works with the spurs is more qualified and has more basketball knowledge in their pinky than anybody on this board including you. The spurs have endless possibilities with Wemby on the team in part because wemby is HIM but also all the draft capital & cap space available. Sit back and enjoy the ride, in Pop we trust.

There's one basic concept you don't understand.
This thing is called constructive criticism. While I agree that there are some posters in here who go way overboard, homers like yourself are the same to me.
I always try to explain my takes and then someone like yourself comes up with nothing but "LET'S TRUST POP AND RC". What's the point of posting if we can't discuss stuff? Just go watch highlights on social media, why are you even reading my nonsense?
If I make the effort to write a constructive post, then you either reply in the same manner, or don't reply at all. I don't engage posters I don't think are worth replying to and if I'm trying to write in a more serious manner, don't bother me with that "JUST BELIEVE IN OUR LEADERSHIP" nonsense.

If there were no people who follow and discuss sports, there would be no money in those sports and people like Brian Wright would have to earn their living somewhere else.
The "more knowledge in their pinky" is the worst take of them all. Too bad that pinky knowledge wasn't enough to predict that Wemby will be a center in this league and won't need another big alongside him. We'd have $17M more cap space this summer. Instead, we'll have to waste some second rounders to get rid of Zach's contract because he's been garbage and has suffered another long-term injury. (who could've predicted that)


“And sniffers like yourself are the reason why this franchise has been in the shitter for 5 years up until 14% luck struck yet again.”
LeBowen (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=54457) I read up until here and I hope you realize soon that sniffers don’t control what this franchise does nor do they have any influence. That’s just ridiculous.





Yeah, that was a bit too much.
But there's no other successful franchise in world of sports with such lack of constructive media presence.
We'll never know and it's better that we won't, but noone convince me that Spurs wouldn't be on the brink of a disaster right now if lottery balls didn't go our way last year.
Disaster that goes way beyond being the worst team in the league.

[Degoat]

There's one basic concept you don't understand.
This thing is called constructive criticism. While I agree that there are some posters in here who go way overboard, homers like yourself are the same to me.
I always try to explain my takes and then someone like yourself comes up with nothing but "LET'S TRUST POP AND RC". What's the point of posting if we can't discuss stuff? Just go watch highlights on social media, why are you even reading my nonsense?
If I make the effort to write a constructive post, then you either reply in the same manner, or don't reply at all. I don't engage posters I don't think are worth replying to and if I'm trying to write in a more serious manner, don't bother me with that "JUST BELIEVE IN OUR LEADERSHIP" nonsense.

If there were no people who follow and discuss sports, there would be no money in those sports and people like Brian Wright would have to earn their living somewhere else.
The "more knowledge in their pinky" is the worst take of them all. Too bad that pinky knowledge wasn't enough to predict that Wemby will be a center in this league and won't need another big alongside him. We'd have $17M more cap space this summer. Instead, we'll have to waste some second rounders to get rid of Zach's contract because he's been garbage and has suffered another long-term injury. (who could've predicted that)



Yeah, that was a bit too much.
But there's no other successful franchise in world of sports with such lack of constructive media presence.
We'll never know and it's better that we won't, but noone convince me that Spurs wouldn't be on the brink of a disaster right now if lottery balls didn't go our way last year.
Disaster that goes way beyond being the worst team in the league.

I’m a fan posting on my teams website that I’m warming up to the prospects in this draft and trust the spurs will find the right one and you begin going off the walls freaking out with your takes lmao It was known as soon as wemby was drafted that he wanted to be like KD and didn’t want to play C, of course they were gonna experiment and let that new generational player have some input in the beginning.

Btw we say all that in Pop we trust, trust the leadership BS because of bandwagon fans like you that come in and have no clue about how the spurs have always operated.

[skin27]

Why ya'll stressing out here?spurs just beed to pick dillingham or topic in the upcoming draft.

[Degoat]

Why ya'll stressing out here?spurs just beed to pick dillingham or topic in the upcoming draft.

That’s all I’ve been trying to say… lol

[LeBowen]

It was known as soon as wemby was drafted that he wanted to be like KD and didn’t want to play C, of course they were gonna experiment and let that new generational player have some input in the beginning.

How does any of that combined with pinky knowledge explain the decision to give Zach Collins 32/2 a year before his contract was up?
You're just digging yourself deeper.


Btw we say all that in Pop we trust

Plenty of people on this board don't. Way bigger haters than myself.
You can agree with them or not, but plenty of them have way better arguments than in Pop we trust.


trust the leadership BS because of bandwagon fans like you that come in and have no clue about how the spurs have always operated.

More ad hominem nonsense.
This bandwagon fan has seen 48 minutes of every single game in these awful years.
Even when I wasn't able to watch live, I'd see the result and still watch every single one of those blowouts.

Now go back to your "in Pop we trust" analysis, and I'll try to use actual arguments in my posts.
I think we derailed the topic enough.


Why ya'll stressing out here?spurs just beed to pick dillingham or topic in the upcoming draft.

Potential Topic pick is exactly what stresses me out.
Post #2888 in this topic. (pun intended)

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302519&page=116&p=11037614&viewfull=1#post11037614

[SpursBills]

I think it'll be interesting to see if there's a shift in draft philosophy before and after Wemby. In a way, it's sometimes easier to take proven older prospects with a track record of success versus drafting young raw prospects with some flashes that require a lot of projection. Guys like Jaime Jaquez, TJD, Derrick White, and in this draft Devin Carter require less projection than a Nick Smith Jr, Josh Primo, or Nikola Topic. When the team didn't have a star, I think they may have thought that they had to take a chance on some of these unproven young prospects - in a vacuum, Sochan was a better pick than Tari Eason or Jalen Williams given his significant youth and rapid improvement. Malaki and Wesley were both very young guys who could potentially turn into lead guards (as an aside, if you go back to the Malaki draft thread and mainstream post-draft reactions, pretty much everyone thought the spurs had gotten a steal). Now that the spurs have their franchise cornerstone, you wonder if they'll be less willing to take extremely raw guys that require a ton of projection in order to accommodate Wemby's talent. That's not to say that they'll be taking seniors or upperclassmen, but they may be more inclined to take guys with existing proven skills over someone who's just completely raw (Risacher who's shown that he can sort of shoot and defend vs Cody who's shown basically nothing but has a better NBA body as a rough example).

On another note, no front office is perfect and there have been bad misses by even elite drafting front offices (Memphis - Ziaire Williams at 10; OKC - 3 picks for Ousmane Dieng, Giddey at 5, Poku; Miami - Justise Winslow at 10). At the same time, if the spurs front office is going to be considered great or elite, they absolutely need to have a couple of home runs relative to draft position. Yes, all of these their picks so far have been reasonable (except Primo), but elite front offices all have picks that far over performed their draft position in addition to the obvious picks.

Memphis - Bane
OKC - JDub
Denver - Jokic and Murray
Miami - Bam
Boston - Tatum and Brown, plus pretty much every trade Stevens has made

If the Spurs FO is to live up to its original reputation, they have to really hit on at least 1-2 of their moves. It's really too early to tell because their guys are all so young and they have a lot of bites at the apple in the future, but I think that if we're holding the FO to the standard that we have in the past, every draft pick and acquisition can't just top out at 'decent'. They actually have to hit big on 1-2 moves to continue to move the franchise forward.

[KobesAchilles]

“However, there is no fix for the this pick.” Good grammar…

Making sure that whoever the spurs draft is better than anybody who is drafted behind them is impossible, every team has different big boards, the jury isn’t even out yet if Haliburton is better then Devin, he probably is but at the time the spurs didnt need a PG!

Oh no, my iPhone accidentally added the word “the” in the sentence. The horror of it all. I’m so glad you pointed it out to me. Now if only you could point out to me how Vassell is better than Halliburton. What exactly is Vassell better at? Shooting? No. Dribbling? No. Running an offense? No. Passing? No. Defense? No. Leading a team to the playoffs and a winning record? Nope.

Again, it isn’t impossible. It should be expected. Bc loser franchises miss out players. They trade Olden Polynice for Pippen and start a dynasty. They trade Tractor Taylor for Dirk. They take Oden over Durant. Ayton over Luka. They pick Fultz over Tatum. Dunn over Jamal Murray. Andrew Wiggins over Embiid. Sochan over Williams I don’t think you grasp the importance of this pick. Top 5 picks shape franchises. There might be only one star player in this draft and we get unlucky and he is picked before we get to choose. But if that player comes AFTER our pick, yeah the front office should be held accountable.

Non Spurs fans on this website man are ridiculous.
Jury is still out on Halliburton being better than Vassell :lmao
Its impossible to pick the best player :cry
Why should we blame the GM when he messes up? It isn’t his fault his job is difficult :cry

[Degoat]

How does any of that combined with pinky knowledge explain the decision to give Zach Collins 32/2 a year before his contract was up?
You're just digging yourself deeper.



Plenty of people on this board don't. Way bigger haters than myself.
You can agree with them or not, but plenty of them have way better arguments than in Pop we trust.



More ad hominem nonsense.
This bandwagon fan has seen 48 minutes of every single game in these awful years.
Even when I wasn't able to watch live, I'd see the result and still watch every single one of those blowouts.

Now go back to your "in Pop we trust" analysis, and I'll try to use actual arguments in my posts.
I think we derailed the topic enough.



Potential Topic pick is exactly what stresses me out.
Post #2888 in this topic. (pun intended)

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302519&page=116&p=11037614&viewfull=1#post11037614

It’s a short term contract that can be used as expiring money next year and it shows the spurs still take care of their own. It’s not rocket science!

[LeBowen]

It’s a short term contract that can be used as expiring money next year and it shows the spurs still take care of their own. It’s not rocket science!

Lmao, now you're just embarrassing yourself.
You know what's better than having expiring money? Having cap space, so you don't even need to match salaries.

Taking care of their own? Spurs resurrected Collins from the dead, everyone thought he was done. If that's not taking care of someone, I don't know what is.
You make it sound like Spurs are indebted to Collins, not the other way around.

Btw, next season we're going to be a lottery team with the most expensive bench big in the league.
Pinky knowledge.

[Degoat]

Lmao, now you're just embarrassing yourself.
You know what's better than having expiring money? Having cap space, so you don't even need to match salaries.

Taking care of their own? Spurs resurrected Collins from the dead, everyone thought he was done. If that's not taking care of someone, I don't know what is.
You make it sound like Spurs are indebted to Collins, not the other way around.

Btw, next season we're going to be a lottery team with the most expensive bench big in the league.
Pinky knowledge.


Tell me, what did the spurs do with their cap space last summer did they use that cap space? That contract becomes very tradable. Only thing embarrassing is the fact that you continually respond after you said you were done ranting. Keep hating on the spurs maybe it’ll make them change their ways :lmao

[LeBowen]

Tell me, what did the spurs do with their cap space last summer did they use that cap space? That contract becomes very tradable. Only thing embarrassing is the fact that you continually respond after you said you were done ranting. Keep hating on the spurs maybe it’ll make them change their ways :lmao

You're actually the worst homer I've seen in a while.
They got bad contracts and didn't need to use all the space since it was just an evaluation season.
Collins contract won't be traded without positive assets (players/picks) being attached.
Amazing contract.

[Degoat]

You're actually the worst homer I've seen in a while.
They got bad contracts and didn't need to use all the space since it was just an evaluation season.
Collins contract won't be traded without positive assets (players/picks) being attached.
Amazing contract.

Im thrilled that it bothers you so much lmao :bobo
If you’re gonna trade for a big contract (Mitchell, Young, Garland) you need some middle of the road contracts for the opposing teams to match salaries with that expire + picks.

[Degoat]

Apologies to my fellow spurs fans back to actual relevant draft talk. Draft lottery can’t come soon enough! Im really wondering if they’ll draft for best player on their board or best fit around wemby.

[mo7888]

Apologies to my fellow spurs fans back to actual relevant draft talk. Draft lottery can’t come soon enough! Im really wondering if they’ll draft for best player on their board or best fit around wemby.

I'm just guessing, but i think we draft bpa and of the TOR pick conveys we look more at fit/high floor guy ready to contribute.

[baseline bum]

also starting to lean sheppard over dilly…

Doesn't matter, they'll take Topic because he's 6'7" :vomit:

[baseline bum]

Apologies to my fellow spurs fans back to actual relevant draft talk. Draft lottery can’t come soon enough! Im really wondering if they’ll draft for best player on their board or best fit around wemby.

It's funny because the lottery won't really tell us much either other than 1 pick or 2 picks with no one in this class really showing out above anyone else.

[Degoat]

It's funny because the lottery won't really tell us much either other than 1 pick or 2 picks with no one in this class really showing out above anyone else.

Yeah that’s true, it’ll just be a relief to know that the TOR pick conveys tbh lol I think a lot guys rumored between 11-20 are gonna be moving up as the draft approaches

[skin27]

How does any of that combined with pinky knowledge explain the decision to give Zach Collins 32/2 a year before his contract was up?
You're just digging yourself deeper.



Plenty of people on this board don't. Way bigger haters than myself.
You can agree with them or not, but plenty of them have way better arguments than in Pop we trust.



More ad hominem nonsense.
This bandwagon fan has seen 48 minutes of every single game in these awful years.
Even when I wasn't able to watch live, I'd see the result and still watch every single one of those blowouts.

Now go back to your "in Pop we trust" analysis, and I'll try to use actual arguments in my posts.
I think we derailed the topic enough.



Potential Topic pick is exactly what stresses me out.
Post #2888 in this topic. (pun intended)

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302519&page=116&p=11037614&viewfull=1#post11037614

Knowing the spurs for a long time they will most likely go with topic. Ill be surprise if pick dillingham if topic still available.

[scott]

It’s statements like that that make me wonder if people actually know the team they’re following, tbh. Did you pick a team out of the blue? One would think that the reason someone starts following a team is because they agree with the org’s principles & decision-making behind their success. Or is it just surface-level fandom where they were winning at a certain point and you decided to bandwagon? Or they had one player (Timmy obviously) you had adoration for but now he’s gone? Nothing’s forcing you to continue following a team that your favorite player once played for. If it isn’t the team’s core principles you’re following them for, then what’s the point of staying? To torture yourself day by day?

The reason I started following the Spurs is because I was born and raised in San Antonio. That is the extent of the origin story :lol

[scott]

“In PAFTO We Trust: A Sniffer Biography”

Anyway, there are actual scientific studies, that I’ve posted multiple times, that show the Spurs are an average at best drafting team since about 2017, after a prolonged period of being one of the best. Trusting PAFTO to make the right pick these days is a risky proposition.

[rankingtear]

“In PAFTO We Trust: A Sniffer Biography”

Anyway, there are actual scientific studies, that I’ve posted multiple times, that show the Spurs are an average at best drafting team since about 2017, after a prolonged period of being one of the best. Trusting PAFTO to make the right pick these days is a risky proposition.

The one with the dashboard? It shows we are 6th best from 17-21.

[scott]

The one with the dashboard? It shows we are 6th best from 17-21.

My apologies, I meant to say since 2018, which drops us down to 12th (and to 13th with a negative score if you exclude Undrafted Free Agents). 2016 and 2017 rated as near perfect and perfect picks. The Vassell pick, which folks point to as a sign we are good at drafting, is only rated as an average pick. Will be curious to see how the Sochan pick gets rated when it is added next year. After an additional year, no doubt the Samanic and Primo picks will get a worse ranking, I’d expect the Vassell pick to improve it’s rating.

[stnick2261]

Why ya'll stressing out here?spurs just beed to pick dillingham or topic in the upcoming draft.

https://scontent.frnd2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/15181190_908149665951438_5444149987029658093_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=d94v9VphHJUAb7UiTS6&_nc_ht=scontent.frnd2-1.fna&oh=00_AfD7dNjzQiXs3gXLsvjQm5vOWv3NUVIgc1VKDYUlm-Bfsg&oe=664C9DD3

While the next 2 drafts ('25 & '26) are way to early, they are both loaded with wings. The top 2 players expected in each draft are SF/PFs. There are no PGs expected in either top 10. I know that will change over the next 2 years, but making sure we get a good PG from this draft will free us up for BPA in stronger upcoming drafts.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Knowing the spurs for a long time they will most likely go with topic. Ill be surprise if pick dillingham if topic still available.

How do we know this? The Spurs rarely draft who everyone thinks they will. If anything the way they played Wemby the last quarter of the season as a point center basically would lean me to believe they would take someone like Sheppard. Topic could very well be the pick, but if it is it will be because of workouts with the team that sway not the fact that he's the tallest point guard candidate.

[Degoat]

Jared McCain and Devin carter really pass the eye test if the spurs decide maybe to trade back

[Dejounte]

Anthony Edwards

29.4% 3PT on 8.3 attempts in college. One of the league’s best stars who is a threat from deep

don’t trust these basketball stats purists on this board who think it’s all or nothing with surface level stats

[JPB]

How do we know this? The Spurs rarely draft who everyone thinks they will. If anything the way they played Wemby the last quarter of the season as a point center basically would lean me to believe they would take someone like Sheppard. Topic could very well be the pick, but if it is it will be because of workouts with the team that sway not the fact that he's the tallest point guard candidate.

Could make sense and I'm not convinced either spurs are targeting a PC in this draft (who would need several years before actually really helping Wemby and this team). Imagine drafting Scoot in this draft, and not sure anyone would argue there's even a player close to him this year.

I'm honestly surprised how some seem to to believe any young PG spurs would draft this year would come and really produce or make this team better his rookie year, solving right away the PG issues. Not sure Wemby would have that much fun next year having to deal with a noob PG and all the growing pains coming with. Victor is gonna be a top 10, if not top 5 player next year. What top 5 player is or wants to play with a rookie PG? Do we imagine today's Giannis or Jokic having to play with a noob at the point?

Give Victor some real help NOW. Hes not gonna wait 3 or 4 years that Topic or Dillingham learn how to become a PG in the NBA.

[mo7888]

Anthony Edwards

29.4% 3PT on 8.3 attempts in college. One of the league’s best stars who is a threat from deep

don’t trust these basketball stats purists on this board who think it’s all or nothing with surface level stats

Yup... there's a couple guys in my top10 I apply that logic to...

[LeBowen]

Could make sense and I'm not convinced either spurs are targeting a PC in this draft (who would need several years before actually really helping Wemby and this team). Imagine drafting Scoot in this draft, and not sure anyone would argue there's even a player close to him this year.

I'm honestly surprised how some seem to to believe any young PG spurs would draft this year would come and really produce or make this team better his rookie year, solving right away the PG issues. Not sure Wemby would have that much fun next year having to deal with a noob PG and all the growing pains coming with. Victor is gonna be a top 10, if not top 5 player next year. What top 5 player is or wants to play with a rookie PG? Do we imagine today's Giannis or Jokic having to play with a noob at the point?

Give Victor some real help NOW. Hes not gonna wait 3 or 4 years that Topic or Dillingham learn how to become a PG in the NBA.

Spot on.
And the issue with this year's prospects is that all of them are flawed. They need to make some fundamental changes for their style of play if they're to be legit NBA players.

As you said, Scoot was a way better prospect than anyone we can get this year and he looks lost.
It's not like we're in win now mode, but not having a competent point guard makes everyone worse, as we've seen this year during Jeremy experiment when everyone looked bad.

Some people in here say that next two drafts are full of wings, but our wing rotation is non-existant and we need a lot of those.
I see wings as three perimeter positions in today's league, with one primary ballhandler and a big.
Long term, we have just Devin and Jeremy. And both of them have question marks. We don't know if Devin will live up to that contract and Jeremy still has to put it together if he's to be anything more than a glue guy on a serious team.
Keldon isn't good enough and should be traded while he has value, meaning that we need three or even four players for the rotation because Champagnie isn't anything special, either.

I'd rather take a gamble developing a wing than a point guard.
Look around the league, most legit point guards were way more ready than anyone in this draft or just stayed longer in college.
It's by far the most difficult position to develop players.

[jesterbobman]

Anthony Edwards

29.4% 3PT on 8.3 attempts in college. One of the league’s best stars who is a threat from deep

don’t trust these basketball stats purists on this board who think it’s all or nothing with surface level stats

As a stats nerd, Edwards is a case I think of regarding how wrong I can be, backs up the case for trusting consensus scouting opinions / eye test from his good games at Georgia (and accounting for high school performance / rankings), and the value of age. Young guys with insane tools and iffy production can be worthwhile early, and even the best stats only models miss (Accounting for this is basically why Pelton etc mix a stats model with a draft evaluation consensus, trying to make up for misses).

I think Holland is the best case for going early this year based on a similar profile.

I still think stats heavy / what have you actually done is a really good basis for drafting, based on historical success of stats models, but consensus / stats + scouting is even better.

[SpursBills]

As a stats nerd, Edwards is a case I think of regarding how wrong I can be, backs up the case for trusting consensus scouting opinions / eye test from his good games at Georgia (and accounting for high school performance / rankings), and the value of age. Young guys with insane tools and iffy production can be worthwhile early, and even the best stats only models miss (Accounting for this is basically why Pelton etc mix a stats model with a draft evaluation consensus, trying to make up for misses).

I think Holland is the best case for going early this year based on a similar profile.

I still think stats heavy / what have you actually done is a really good basis for drafting, based on historical success of stats models, but consensus / stats + scouting is even better.

Regarding his 3 point shooting specifically, Edwards is also a good example of why 3 point volume plays a large role in 3 point projection in addition to FT% and 3 pt%. The two best examples of this this year are Ja'Kobe Walter and Jared McCain given their 3 pt volume and the context of their 3 point shooting. I dislike Walter as a prospect for other reasons, but the shooting I buy more than his middling 3 pt% would suggest. McCain might be the best deep sniper in the draft this year given his 3 pt%, 3 pt volume, FT%, and 3 pt shot quality.

On the other side of the coin, this is also why a lot of people (myself included) do not buy Cody Williams' 3 point shot as of yet.

[TD 21]

How do we know this? The Spurs rarely draft who everyone thinks they will. If anything the way they played Wemby the last quarter of the season as a point center basically would lean me to believe they would take someone like Sheppard. Topic could very well be the pick, but if it is it will be because of workouts with the team that sway not the fact that he's the tallest point guard candidate.

Topic is likely Sengun redux in a sense. Many see him as he obvious target because he's a big, foreign PG, but ignore that they didn't want a poor shooting, defending lead guard, who'll need to spam p-n-r to derive value, when they didn't have a centerpiece, let alone one of this magnitude.

As I've said, if they go guard (which probably only happens if the Craptors 1st conveys), Sheppard is the obvious target because he'll be able to derive value (shooting, defensive playmaking) without the ball and his size or lack thereof will be mitigated as a nominal PG, which is where he'd mostly play here.


Anthony Edwards

29.4% 3PT on 8.3 attempts in college. One of the league’s best stars who is a threat from deep

don’t trust these basketball stats purists on this board who think it’s all or nothing with surface level stats

Yet he had a reputation as a decent shooter or at least projected one by the time he entered the draft.

Again, shooting can obviously be improved, but most bad shooters end up mediocre in the end and it usually takes years to get to that point, while some never do.

[Vienna]

Risacher played a decent game in the French league today. (14P, 7R, 1A,1B, 4-10Fg, 5-6FT)

[Strategic]

Draft to surround Wemby as Denver has shooters around Jokic. Since Wemby will be better than Jokic in most aspects, success will follow. This is the way.

[CorrectCrusader]

Draft to surround Wemby as Denver has shooters around Jokic. Since Wemby will be better than Jokic in most aspects, success will follow. This is the way.

Then you want one of the kentucky guards.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/draftpoint2024/status/1782084916760703081

[CorrectCrusader]

https://twitter.com/draftpoint2024/status/1782084916760703081

Out of the lotto? lmao not a chance he makes it past 10

[Dejounte]

Draft to surround Wemby as Denver has shooters around Jokic. Since Wemby will be better than Jokic in most aspects, success will follow. This is the way.

Jokic has one non-shooter in the line-up in Gordon. And Wemby will be shooting way more threes than Jokic in his career, so the line-up should be functional with two non-shooters in the line-up (one preferably the PF to crash the boards on offense). If Wemby can get his version of Gordon, that would be ideal. PF, SG, SF: two of three should be high volume shooters (MPJ, Jamal Murray) while the third should be an opportunity scorer (KCP).

[BatManu20]

Risacher will still go top-10, but any GM that takes him #1 overall at this point is begging to be fired tbh.

[NASpurs]

Draft to surround Wemby as Denver has shooters around Jokic. Since Wemby will be better than Jokic in most aspects, success will follow. This is the way.

This is what I was thinking which is why I'm against midget guards like Trae Young.

[Dejounte]

Jokic has one non-shooter in the line-up in Gordon. And Wemby will be shooting way more threes than Jokic in his career, so the line-up should be functional with two non-shooters in the line-up (one preferably the PF to crash the boards on offense). If Wemby can get his version of Gordon, that would be ideal. PF, SG, SF: two of three should be high volume shooters (MPJ, Jamal Murray) while the third should be an opportunity scorer (KCP).

C —> Superstar (Jokic) —> Wembanyama
PF —> Versatile Defender (Gordon) —> Sochan (we know he’s not there yet)
Wing —> Opportunity scorer (KCP) —> Champagnie
Wing —> High volume shooter (MPJ) —> Vassell
Guard —> High volume shooter (Jamal Murray) —> Tre Jones

Vassell is probably locked to the line-up for the foreseeable future, and so the Spurs need to fill the other three positions. There’s still time for Sochan to see how close he can get to Gordon’s level. Champagnie doesn’t really have to improve all that much to reach KCP’s level. The guard spot is the most urgent one to fill based on this. Tre’s a solid player but having only one high volume shooter/ scorer next to Wemby is a recipe for failure.

If we’re building this way, then Reed Sheppard makes the most perfect sense.

[TD 21]

Any more than one non-shooter in a lineup in today's NBA is untenable.

Champagnie isn't close to Caldwell-Pope, who is basically this generation's Danny Green, as an elite 3 and D wing, who can guard 1-3.

[Dejounte]

Any more than one non-shooter in a lineup in today's NBA is untenable.

Champagnie isn't close to Caldwell-Pope, who is basically this generation's Danny Green, as an elite 3 and D wing, who can guard 1-3.

The gap between Champagnie and KCP is smaller than Tre and Jamal Murray. Upgrading from Tre would improve the team more overall because of the huge shift in play. The point of my post was less about talent and more about the role they serve in line-ups. Going from a non scorer to a high volume scorer is a big difference. The Spurs need to find a player in the draft who will score a lot from the guard spot.

[Degoat]

Hey this is a little off topic, but don’t teams have to do exit interviews after the season or is that wrong? I could have sworn there use to be. Not like anything was given away but at times they may share some details and give some insight on what the team will be looking to improve in.

[Russ]

Risacher will still go top-10, but any GM that takes him #1 overall at this point is begging to be fired tbh.

Maybe any GM who "wins" the #1 pick in this draft is begging to be fired.

[baseline bum]

Risacher will still go top-10, but any GM that takes him #1 overall at this point is begging to be fired tbh.

Everyone in the top 10 has huge red flags. This draft is a craps game.

[Dejounte]

More thoughts:

on this team, with the assumption that Vassell is here for awhile, it makes sense for the third high volume scorer to be the point guard vs the wing starting next to Vassell. Another way to look at this is which position would we rather have a 3 and D guy? A 3 and D point guard or a 3 and D wing? A 3 and D wing gives the lineups more versatility, obviously. There’s only one ball to go around. The point guard is typically the primary initiator, meaning he has the ball a lot and it’s a more unpredictable offense when that point guard can score. All that aside, there are hardly any wing/ forwards in this draft who could be dynamic enough to score in enough ways to warrant the high volume touches. Zaccharie can’t dribble. Matas has some semblance of it, but still enough questions there. Ron Holland’s impressive going left or right but his in between game seems nonexistent and so forth…

[Pauleta14]

More thoughts:

on this team, with the assumption that Vassell is here for awhile, it makes sense for the third high volume scorer to be the point guard vs the wing starting next to Vassell. Another way to look at this is which position would we rather have a 3 and D guy? A 3 and D point guard or a 3 and D wing? A 3 and D wing gives the lineups more versatility, obviously. There’s only one ball to go around. The point guard is typically the primary initiator, meaning he has the ball a lot and it’s a more unpredictable offense when that point guard can score. All that aside, there are hardly any wing/ forwards in this draft who could be dynamic enough to score in enough ways to warrant the high volume touches. Zaccharie can’t dribble. Matas has some semblance of it, but still enough questions there. Ron Holland’s impressive going left or right but his in between game seems nonexistent and so forth…

I'd rather have a Derrick White type of PG considering Wemby's game IF Vassell is to be the 2nd highest scorer rather than a high volume shooting PG

Edit / I believe however that Trae is capable of modifying his game into a pass first PG. I've read recent quotes from him that make be optimistic

[SpursBills]

More thoughts:

on this team, with the assumption that Vassell is here for awhile, it makes sense for the third high volume scorer to be the point guard vs the wing starting next to Vassell. Another way to look at this is which position would we rather have a 3 and D guy? A 3 and D point guard or a 3 and D wing? A 3 and D wing gives the lineups more versatility, obviously. There’s only one ball to go around. The point guard is typically the primary initiator, meaning he has the ball a lot and it’s a more unpredictable offense when that point guard can score. All that aside, there are hardly any wing/ forwards in this draft who could be dynamic enough to score in enough ways to warrant the high volume touches. Zaccharie can’t dribble. Matas has some semblance of it, but still enough questions there. Ron Holland’s impressive going left or right but his in between game seems nonexistent and so forth…


I really have no supporting evidence of this assertion and it's just a gut feeling, but I think that 3+D players may be de-emphasized in the future as defenses try and catch up and player skill levels improve. I don't know if OKC/Boston's 5 man dribble-pass-shoot offense/switchable defense is just a passing fad or maybe I'm a prisoner of the moment, but it really does seem like that's the way offenses and defenses are evolving in the future.

[Mr. Body]

More thoughts:

on this team, with the assumption that Vassell is here for awhile, it makes sense for the third high volume scorer to be the point guard vs the wing starting next to Vassell. Another way to look at this is which position would we rather have a 3 and D guy? A 3 and D point guard or a 3 and D wing? A 3 and D wing gives the lineups more versatility, obviously. There’s only one ball to go around. The point guard is typically the primary initiator, meaning he has the ball a lot and it’s a more unpredictable offense when that point guard can score. All that aside, there are hardly any wing/ forwards in this draft who could be dynamic enough to score in enough ways to warrant the high volume touches. Zaccharie can’t dribble. Matas has some semblance of it, but still enough questions there. Ron Holland’s impressive going left or right but his in between game seems nonexistent and so forth…

A 3 and D guard may not even exist, since it takes so much energy to either guard the opponents' best guards OR initiate and score a great deal. I think you can find good defensive guards who can score, like Gary Payton, or good scoring guards who can at least be pretty good at defense, like Tony Parker. Finding a player who is great at both seems nearly impossible. I guess basically you're not looking for 3 and D, you're looking for 3 and initiation and D and that's a lot. A reason why wings tend to sit in corners for kickouts and the archtype of 3 and D is clearer for them.

A very heavy offensive-load guard, a FVV or Trae Young or others, has to take it easy on defense almost by default.

[Dejounte]

I really have no supporting evidence of this assertion and it's just a gut feeling, but I think that 3+D players may be de-emphasized in the future as defenses try and catch up and player skill levels improve. I don't know if OKC/Boston's 5 man dribble-pass-shoot offense/switchable defense is just a passing fad or maybe I'm a prisoner of the moment, but it really does seem like that's the way offenses and defenses are evolving in the future.

Dort is the poster boy of 3 and D. Giddey might as well be 3 and D (without the 3) because his scoring ability is near non existent.

[SpursBills]

Dort is the poster boy of 3 and D. Giddey might as well be 3 and D (without the 3) because his scoring ability is near non existent.

You are absolutely right about Dort so maybe it's just Boston - I just assumed 3+D is a spot up guy who can't really playmake against a scrambling defense or has difficulty attacking closeouts, but maybe your view of such a player is different from mine.

[jjspur]

I don't think anyone int he top 10 in this so so draft will be a day 1 starter or lift the spurs record by 12-20 games. Wemby couldn't even do that. What we can realistically get is a solid bench player, maybe, just maybe a sometime starter. If we get 2 picks, I'd trade 1 for a player with some experience already, preferably from a playoff team. They may not have the slots or be above the salary cap and may value a cheaper draft pick rather than a player while talented may not get much burn due to being on a mostly veteran team. Besides how many teams with a bunch of really really young players make a deep run in the playoffs ?

[Dejounte]

The gap between Champagnie and KCP is smaller than Tre and Jamal Murray. Upgrading from Tre would improve the team more overall because of the huge shift in play. The point of my post was less about talent and more about the role they serve in line-ups. Going from a non scorer to a high volume scorer is a big difference. The Spurs need to find a player in the draft who will score a lot from the guard spot.

We also got a taste of what going from a non-scorer point guard to a scorer point guard looks like at the end of season with Graham. Graham being a threat from deep kept the defense honest. Everybody noted it looked like a different team and I think a huge credit to that was the fact that we had a point guard who could shoot. More and more I’m on the bandwagon that the Spurs draft a PG this summer.

[rankingtear]

Draft to surround Wemby as Denver has shooters around Jokic. Since Wemby will be better than Jokic in most aspects, success will follow. This is the way.

DEN has 3 bad shooters in their final 7 man rotation in that championship run.

[Dejounte]

I don't think anyone int he top 10 in this so so draft will be a day 1 starter or lift the spurs record by 12-20 games. Wemby couldn't even do that. What we can realistically get is a solid bench player, maybe, just maybe a sometime starter. If we get 2 picks, I'd trade 1 for a player with some experience already, preferably from a playoff team. They may not have the slots or be above the salary cap and may value a cheaper draft pick rather than a player while talented may not get much burn due to being on a mostly veteran team. Besides how many teams with a bunch of really really young players make a deep run in the playoffs ?

IMO, players by themselves don’t increase win totals. Structure does. The Rockets increased their win totals because of the classic synergy of having a point guard that can pass and shoot without being turnover prone and a 3 and D wing. Having players know their role in the system and fitting in with others is the reason why teams win games. This season showed us a lot of things of what works with Wemby. IMO, the Spurs now have an idea of what roles players should have around Wemby. Even players themselves learned a bit to play more within themselves… an example of this was how Sochan called his own number much less as the season went on. His rebounding numbers grew as the season ended, embracing the Rodman comparisons early on in his career. The more that we have guys figure themselves as to what role they play, the better it is in the long run.

[KobesAchilles]

The problem with the Denver model is that the starting line up is full of unicorns. We have one unicorn. Dejounte tried to do a Spurs Denver comparison and this is no shot at him but it showed how unique Denver is and how far apart we are from them.

The athleticism of Gordon is waaay above anyone on our team. In fact, I don’t think there’s a more athletic forward in the West than Gordon. Also his finishes are way beyond anything Sochan could ever hope to learn. That’s just God given talent.

MPJ is huge for his position. And he’s a sniper. And he’s a solid defender/rebounder. There’s nobody in the draft that has his size, his shooting, and his skill set. We aren’t going to get a guy like that in the draft. Another unicorn

Jamal Murray is a big guard who can run pic n roll, shoot off the dribble, get to the rim, score with either hand, and post up. Oh and he steps up in the playoffs like nobody’s business. There’s zero people in the league like him never mind the draft. Another unicorn.

The only non-unicorn is KPC and he is a sniper 3/D player that every team wants and does all the dirty stuff and doesn’t care about his shots but will hit big shots if needed. So he’s basically the opposite of Vassell.

Im beginning to like the idea of tanking next year lol. Just draft Sheppard and Dilly. One of them will hit.

[baseline bum]

We also got a taste of what going from a non-scorer point guard to a scorer point guard looks like at the end of season with Graham. Graham being a threat from deep kept the defense honest. Everybody noted it looked like a different team and I think a huge credit to that was the fact that we had a point guard who could shoot. More and more I’m on the bandwagon that the Spurs draft a PG this summer.

Which one?

[CGD]

Rightly or wrongly, Cody Williams is gonna get a nice draft bump on his brother performance in these POs alone. Jalen is a star.

[CGD]

More thoughts:

on this team, with the assumption that Vassell is here for awhile, it makes sense for the third high volume scorer to be the point guard vs the wing starting next to Vassell. Another way to look at this is which position would we rather have a 3 and D guy? A 3 and D point guard or a 3 and D wing? A 3 and D wing gives the lineups more versatility, obviously. There’s only one ball to go around. The point guard is typically the primary initiator, meaning he has the ball a lot and it’s a more unpredictable offense when that point guard can score. All that aside, there are hardly any wing/ forwards in this draft who could be dynamic enough to score in enough ways to warrant the high volume touches. Zaccharie can’t dribble. Matas has some semblance of it, but still enough questions there. Ron Holland’s impressive going left or right but his in between game seems nonexistent and so forth…

Gotta love all these back door #DraftDilly takes. It’s charming.

[Dejounte]

Which one?

No answer is going to sound nice.

Reed reminds me of Jamal Murray the most. I think Reed could be a little craftier and maybe if Kentucky gave him the keys more like they did with Dilly— it would have made me more confident about him. If the Spurs find in their interviews that Reed has that “dog” in him and a willingness to score for the team when they need a bucket, then they should draft him.

Dilly would be the most obvious answer for the Spurs’ needs if he wasn’t so damn bad on defense. God, it’s scary. Like, people have been shitting on Branham for a couple years now because of his defense… to have another player like that or worse? RIP Spurstalk.

Castle is the obvious NO for addressing the “which scoring PG” question, isn’t it? I would say so until I watched a lot of his film and got Jimmy Butler vibes. What gives me pause though is if he will ever learn to be a “dog” on offense CONSISTENTLY. Same issue as Reed, but maybe Castle’s disease in this area might be more severe. His brain might be so ingrained with team-first philosophies that he may not project into the scoring point guard that we will need.

Collier has been my favorite for awhile now and everybody has issues with him but he had the most experience being the top scorer for his team and looked convincing having that role for some games.

Gun to my head, I’ll say Reed Sheppard.

[SpursBills]

No answer is going to sound nice.

Reed reminds me of Jamal Murray the most. I think Reed could be a little craftier and maybe if Kentucky gave him the keys more like they did with Dilly— it would have made me more confident about him. If the Spurs find in their interviews that Reed has that “dog” in him and a willingness to score for the team when they need a bucket, then they should draft him.

Dilly would be the most obvious answer for the Spurs’ needs if he wasn’t so damn bad on defense. God, it’s scary. Like, people have been shitting on Branham for a couple years now because of his defense… to have another player like that or worse? RIP Spurstalk.

Castle is the obvious NO for addressing the “which scoring PG” question, isn’t it? I would say so until I watched a lot of his film and got Jimmy Butler vibes. What gives me pause though is if he will ever learn to be a “dog” on offense CONSISTENTLY. Same issue as Reed, but maybe Castle’s disease in this area might be more severe. His brain might be so ingrained with team-first philosophies that he may not project into the scoring point guard that we will need.

Collier has been my favorite for awhile now and everybody has issues with him but he had the most experience being the top scorer for his team and looked convincing having that role for some games.

Gun to my head, I’ll say Reed Sheppard.

Have you seen any tape of McCain? Of all the guys in the draft he's actually the guy who reminds me of Murray the most. The dude is an unrepentant gunner who can shoot from pretty much anywhere and can get hot in a hurry. He's basically got almost the exact same strengths and weaknesses that Murray did coming into the draft, except he's just worse at everything. Older, smaller, less good getting to the rim. But he's basically your combo guard with questionable point guard translation and average athleticism who's a bucket and can get hot in a hurry. Not my favorite guard in the draft, but the one who definitely reminds me most of Murray.

[baseline bum]

No answer is going to sound nice.

Reed reminds me of Jamal Murray the most. I think Reed could be a little craftier and maybe if Kentucky gave him the keys more like they did with Dilly— it would have made me more confident about him. If the Spurs find in their interviews that Reed has that “dog” in him and a willingness to score for the team when they need a bucket, then they should draft him.

Dilly would be the most obvious answer for the Spurs’ needs if he wasn’t so damn bad on defense. God, it’s scary. Like, people have been shitting on Branham for a couple years now because of his defense… to have another player like that or worse? RIP Spurstalk.

Castle is the obvious NO for addressing the “which scoring PG” question, isn’t it? I would say so until I watched a lot of his film and got Jimmy Butler vibes. What gives me pause though is if he will ever learn to be a “dog” on offense CONSISTENTLY. Same issue as Reed, but maybe Castle’s disease in this area might be more severe. His brain might be so ingrained with team-first philosophies that he may not project into the scoring point guard that we will need.

Collier has been my favorite for awhile now and everybody has issues with him but he had the most experience being the top scorer for his team and looked convincing having that role for some games.

Gun to my head, I’ll say Reed Sheppard.

Though I guess the real answer should be whichever is still there when the Spurs pick now that #7 is the most likely pick :lol

[heyheymymy]

I'm thinking Reed Sheppard is the correct pick.

People talk about his lack of size, athleticism but look at the 3 steals per game and the 1 block (0.9). defense creates offense on the open break. No one is blocking Sheppard when he's taking open looks. He could be 2 feet tall but if he's creating uncontested opportunities with his defense does that perhaps negate his size deficiencies/inability to burst past to a net positive? Does his defense project to be elite enough to have this impact?

These are the questions any drafting GM must ask. You could look at his tape. The SEC is a pretty athletic conference, could be a decent comp with NBA with a slight handicap. You could trace every poke away/block and say who is that guy, how tall is he and what is the gulf in difference between him and Reed? You could create at metric, have categories, height, wingspan, more subjective but build/tone not sure how you analytically quantify that though.

I see a situation were Sheppard struggles to score in set offenses but wreaks havoc on poke aways where

1. He uses his speed on the fast break and strong finishing skills at the rim to score
2. contested at the rim on fast break and uses high IQ to draw the foul/and1 slows the game down and gets opponents in foul trouble
3. hits a teammate early on the turn over fast break and the team mate scores; assist to Sheppard
4. hits a teammate early on the steal and cuts off ball to the open 3 point line team mate draws defenders in at the rim and kicks to open Sheppard for the 3.
5. Wemby trails and Reed gets stymied at the rim on the fast break and resets to hit the trailing Wemby for an open 3. Wemby exerts minimal, scores near maximum.

Will the Spurs seize momentum off of Reed's defensive playmaking skill? Think about 5. Wemby trails and Reed gets stymied at the rim on the fast break and resets to hit the trailing Wemby for an open 3. I saw Wemby hit a few trailers last week of this season so I think it's in his wheelhouse. Now you see Sheppard's play is ripple effect preserving Wemby's stamina and wear and tear because creating fast break offense off his dare I say elite defensive playmaking leads to easy buckets where bigs aren't banging as much and leads to scoring runs that get Wemby rest etc. Just a total system liberator in a way, could Reed Sheppard be like engine oil?

[rankingtear]

We also got a taste of what going from a non-scorer point guard to a scorer point guard looks like at the end of season with Graham. Graham being a threat from deep kept the defense honest. Everybody noted it looked like a different team and I think a huge credit to that was the fact that we had a point guard who could shoot. More and more I’m on the bandwagon that the Spurs draft a PG this summer.

Graham played more 2.

[jjspur]

I'd draft Sheppard as well. All rookies need some development time, but in this draft, he seems to need less overall development than a lot of the top 10 players, which would be a plus for the spurs.

[Vienna]

Have you seen any tape of McCain? Of all the guys in the draft he's actually the guy who reminds me of Murray the most. The dude is an unrepentant gunner who can shoot from pretty much anywhere and can get hot in a hurry. He's basically got almost the exact same strengths and weaknesses that Murray did coming into the draft, except he's just worse at everything. Older, smaller, less good getting to the rim. But he's basically your combo guard with questionable point guard translation and average athleticism who's a bucket and can get hot in a hurry. Not my favorite guard in the draft, but the one who definitely reminds me most of Murray.

totally agree. I made this comparison some weeks ago (McCain is closer to Murray and Maxey, than Seth and Forbes, as some mocks compared him). about his physical and atheltic profil we at least can point out, that he is pretty strong for a guy his size, especially his legs, and he doesn't hesitate to trow his body into the battle. (that's the main reason, why he is a very good rebounder, despite not playing above the rim).
we know, his measurements won't blow anybody away, but he should measure better than Sheppard. (my guess is, Sheppard will measure 6'1'' w/o shoes and McCain like 6'2.5", with a significantly longer wingspan).
and there is one aspect about athletic abilities, that isn't discussused as it should: "deceleration". McCain might not be the most explosive guy, but he can hit the brakes like few other players. (likely thank's to his strong legs). that's one reason, why he shoots that well in transition. if you can't blow by your defender, just let him fly by. it's his cobra maneuver. so yes, I would pick him over Sheppard.

[Silverheart80]

No answer is going to sound nice.

Reed reminds me of Jamal Murray the most. I think Reed could be a little craftier and maybe if Kentucky gave him the keys more like they did with Dilly— it would have made me more confident about him. If the Spurs find in their interviews that Reed has that “dog” in him and a willingness to score for the team when they need a bucket, then they should draft him.

Dilly would be the most obvious answer for the Spurs’ needs if he wasn’t so damn bad on defense. God, it’s scary. Like, people have been shitting on Branham for a couple years now because of his defense… to have another player like that or worse? RIP Spurstalk.

Castle is the obvious NO for addressing the “which scoring PG” question, isn’t it? I would say so until I watched a lot of his film and got Jimmy Butler vibes. What gives me pause though is if he will ever learn to be a “dog” on offense CONSISTENTLY. Same issue as Reed, but maybe Castle’s disease in this area might be more severe. His brain might be so ingrained with team-first philosophies that he may not project into the scoring point guard that we will need.

Collier has been my favorite for awhile now and everybody has issues with him but he had the most experience being the top scorer for his team and looked convincing having that role for some games.

Gun to my head, I’ll say Reed Sheppard.

Agree on Jimmy Butler vibes for Castle. I see him struggling as an NBA rookie. Lot of G-League time, but by February to April, his defense and BBIQ will look good compared to the relative lack of both on the current roster. He's gonna be a slow burn, but worth the wait, when hopefully his longball comes around. Everyone's dwelling on surrounding Victor with shooters, and I love that model -- but setting Victor, Sochan, and maybe Wesley aside, the rest of the Spurs are garbage on defense. And in some cases, unsalvageable. Can't win when Vassell, Johnson, Branham, Collins, etc. are gaping veteran sieves on defense, game after game. All the shooting in the world can't make up for the inability to get stops. Need guys who can defend their position and switch.

If this season was the Spurs "seeing what we've got", then I think Vassell showed there's no way to win consistently with him as a 2nd or 3rd option. He doesn't play smart basketball. He's tailor-made to lose on both ends, when he carries this much responsibility. Selfish, low-IQ, toxic decisions that don't make other players better and don't create consistent matchup advantages. When he's gone, the winning will have a chance to begin. But not before. No matter who we draft.

I do agree with you though -- there's no indication the Spurs are moving him anytime soon. Long term, IMO, Castle is going to have a more productive NBA career than Sheppard. I don't like Sheppard's overplay on defense, which will translate to foul trouble in the league, and I don't see him creating offensive mismatches off-the-dribble against superior athletes. He's this year's Jimmer Fredette. Dilly's not even worth conversation because of his height and absymal defense. Castle -- physical, high-IQ, good size, decent interior midrange game, and a *dawg* on defense.

Between these three -- it's Castle for me. (Sarr is still my dream pick for the Spurs, should lightning somehow strike twice.)

[SpursBills]

totally agree. I made this comparison some weeks ago (McCain is closer to Murray and Maxey, than Seth and Forbes, as some mocks compared him). about his physical and atheltic profil we at least can point out, that he is pretty strong for a guy his size, especially his legs, and he doesn't hesitate to trow his body into the battle. (that's the main reason, why he is a very good rebounder, despite not playing above the rim).
we know, his measurements won't blow anybody away, but he should measure better than Sheppard. (my guess is, Sheppard will measure 6'1'' w/o shoes and McCain like 6'2.5", with a significantly longer wingspan).
and there is one aspect about athletic abilities, that isn't discussused as it should: "deceleration". McCain might not be the most explosive guy, but he can hit the brakes like few other players. (likely thank's to his strong legs). that's one reason, why he shoots that well in transition. if you can't blow by your defender, just let him fly by. it's his cobra maneuver. so yes, I would pick him over Sheppard.

I still have Sheppard ahead of McCain because of his defensive instincts and high feel, but the gap is way closer than most mocks would suggest. McCain's biggest issue that drops him is his passing projection - he's playing next to one of the purest point guards in the NCAA in Proctor, so I'm not sure whether his passing is just masked or whether he doesn't have the playmaking chops to play as a lead guard. If you have high confidence that he can play lead guard like many of the current combo/SG turned lead guards in the NBA right now, that dramatically changes his draft projection.

[SpursBills]

.

[SpursBills]

.

[spurraider21]

For the spurs purposes, Sheppard is PG1

[spurraider21]

For the spurs purposes, Sheppard is PG1

[Strategic]

Yeah spurs don’t really have any players Okc would want. But if Presti sees the next potential Jalen Williams or perfect final piece in this draft and he can snag him at #7 then that is enough for spurs to snag a nice return. Presti is in overpay mode to get what he wants. The rich can afford it.Be nice if Presti had enough riches to let go of Aaron Wiggins. He shot 50% from 3 this year on 120 attempts and could get on the court only 15 minutes per.

[Strategic]

Yeah spurs don’t really have any players Okc would want. But if Presti sees the next potential Jalen Williams or perfect final piece in this draft and he can snag him at #7 then that is enough for spurs to snag a nice return. Presti is in overpay mode to get what he wants. The rich can afford it.Be nice if Presti had enough riches to let go of Aaron Wiggins. He shot 50% from 3 this year on 120 attempts and could get on the court only 15 minutes per.

[Strategic]

Yeah spurs don’t really have any players Okc would want. But if Presti sees the next potential Jalen Williams or perfect final piece in this draft and he can snag him at #7 then that is enough for spurs to snag a nice return. Presti is in overpay mode to get what he wants. The rich can afford it.Be nice if Presti had enough riches to let go of Aaron Wiggins. He shot 50% from 3 this year on 120 attempts and could get on the court only 15 minutes per.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1782404989031178295

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1782489358689349749

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/tmetcalf11/status/1782538553173455009

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1782542054725128324

[Mr. Body]

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1782404989031178295

As everyone else is letting Risacher drop to where he belongs, I begin to wonder if Givony and his bosses at ESPN have other reasons for pumping him up even now. Even his height.

[BackHome]

https://twitter.com/tmetcalf11/status/1782538553173455009

Thanks for the update and Vid Ace

[objective]

As everyone else is letting Risacher drop to where he belongs, I begin to wonder if Givony and his bosses at ESPN have other reasons for pumping him up even now. Even his height.

Lol, I just watched a Pfeiffer video on him last night from his hotter part of the season a new I *think* he referred to him as 6-8 and mentioned him even looking smaller

I could have been hallucinating though. But yeah, he doesn't look 6-10

[Robz4000]

Wrong thread

[heyheymymy]

wow first look at Topic in months. Not really interested for the Spurs but nice to see he does exist and he didn't look terrible.

It's nice, more stuff to potentially crowd the lottery keeps things fluid for SA

[heyheymymy]

My preferred guards in order: Castle, Sheppard, McCain


Not interested: Dillingham, Topic, Collier

[LeBowen]

Can't find the post because of spurstalk's garbage servers taking an hour to load anything, but lmao @ whoever was saying Jovic isn't anything special when I complained about PATFO drafting two scrubs, Branham and Wesley ahead of him.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1783494289248375022

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/BasketballCL/status/1782463689230065993
https://twitter.com/tmetcalf11/status/1781324156081938891

[SpursBills]

https://theswishtheory.com/2024-nba-draft-articles/2024/04/2024-draft-shooting-heuristic/

Really nice article regarding looking beyond the numbers for shooting translation. Special shout outs to Ajinca, Ja'Kobe Walter, and Dillingham, but the principles apply to all draft prospects.

[Limguogolo]

Yes, Salaün is a mix between Kawhi Leonard and Aaron Gordon. Even bigger.

[Mr. Body]

https://theswishtheory.com/2024-nba-draft-articles/2024/04/2024-draft-shooting-heuristic/

Really nice article regarding looking beyond the numbers for shooting translation. Special shout outs to Ajinca, Ja'Kobe Walter, and Dillingham, but the principles apply to all draft prospects.

Excellent, wonderful stuff. Great find! Really fascinating perspective on how shooting isn't merely shooting, and how threats on the floor are created and then reacted-to by defenses.

The bit on shot speed speaks to a player like Cody Williams, who is extreeeeemely slow in loading up his shot, so barely ever gets there. His threat on close-outs, at the same time, is minimal. I've been second guessing Castle lately, too, about whether he can solve his shooting problems.

The bits on offensive predictability speak to my concerns about Topic, whose offensive repertoire is very limited at this point, mostly PnRs and straight line drives. Kind of like Collier in that, too. It's wonderful to have those skills, but when your big options are so limited, NBA defenses see you. Can a Nicola Topic learn to shift and manipulate defenses in other ways?

And... the Dillingham part. I've come to regard him as close to an offensive savant and it's great to read this guy's thoughts on why. Unlike a Trae Young, who stares down the defenses and makes more deliberate actions from a stand-still, Dillingham often starts his actions instantaneously. The comment on 'stampeding' closeouts is illuminating: Dillingham is already attacking the closeout even before he gets the ball. He's already seen and recognizes how close the defender is going to be and already instantly made his decision.

He does this a lot. The way he attacks is instant, fluid, super-reactive in the best way. As this blog says, this makes him extremely dangerous, as you have to account for his dynamism -- because he's a threat at any point of those actions. He can take it into the lane, relocate for a different three, take a pull-up two, pass to a cutter, etc., and his handles and control are very high. Not to mention that close contests don't cause hesitation - he fires anyway.

It also gets into another big mark for Dillingham -- that he was thought of a chucker at OTE but gained the role of off-ball shooter at Kentucky, where he shot 47.7% on catch-and-shoot (42/88). His ability to transform into an organized system is a phenomenal sign.

This is all on the offensive side, of course, but RD is exactly what the Spurs need for an incredibly hard offense to cover. If he translates, his perimeter gravity will be pretty significant, which forces defenses to decide whether to cover actions he's involved in or stay at home with Wemby. Of course they're going to decide on Wemby, but if Dillingham gets past defenders on close-outs, whether he's initiator or off-ball, then the whole defense is unlocked. Obviously it will take a lot of seasoning, but this is the player you want. And it gets Vassell in more of a usual off-ball role and lets him attack defenses that have been moved around.

This is the appeal of Trae Young, but Young's shot selection is really poor and he's actually very inefficient for how much he shoots. He also shoots or attacks outside of any movement to the offense, more in the James Harden mode. Everybody stands and watches. He's a much better passer than Dillingham, but Dillingham is pretty good (and a very good lob thrower). RD is simply much, much faster in processing and attacking off what the defense is doing.

"Dillingham’s technical refinement operating off-ball, when paired with high volume off the dribble shooting, amounts to an offensive weapon which could potentially change the entire complexion of a team’s offense. Instead of having a shooter who can only force the defense to react when placed in a set of ideal conditions, a shooter with the depth of tools Dillingham possesses can activate defensive pressure points simply by participating in the play."

Of other concerns about Dillingham -- whether he can learn to play defense -- this is my concern about him on offense. Whether his usage and comfortable shot diet requires him to be very involved in what the team does, i.e. whether he needs to be heavily involved, even if the shots come from somewhere else. As the quote says above, whether he changes the complexion of a team's offense, and whether that's a good thing. But his apparent clutch/cluster scoring, his playmaking, and ability to learn to play more organized ball, are tantalizing. One of the most talented players in this draft.

[JPB]

https://twitter.com/BasketballCL/status/1782463689230065993
https://twitter.com/tmetcalf11/status/1781324156081938891

Salaun probably hasn't star or even starter potential in the NBA but I can see him being a more than serviceable player and the kind of guy you like in your roster for his hard work, versatility and positive energy as a dynamic 3 and D guy whio can notably defend the Tatums or Giannises. Just not sure he has the natural talent to be more than that. Seems like a cool kid too.

A prospect you take a flyer on in the 20s in most drafts and who may end up in the lottery this year. But his length and shooting are definitely appealing in today's NBA.

[Strategic]

Yeah spurs don’t really have any players Okc would want. But if Presti sees the next potential Jalen Williams or perfect final piece in this draft and he can snag him at #7 then that is enough for spurs to snag a nice return. Presti is in overpay mode to get what he wants. The rich can afford it.Be nice if Presti was rich enough to let go of Aaron Wiggins. He can hardly get on the floor for okc, 15 minutes per game. He shot 50% from 3 this season on 120 attempts. Okc got some dudes.

[PhantomDashCam]

https://youtu.be/E-76ZcXkk3c?si=pR68o7QNRHBUh-gm

1783968138033352708

Fascinated with this kid. Really like the combination of tools, age and versatility.
Apparently the second cousin of Rudy Gay FWIW…

[rascal]

Salaun will be the pick if the Spurs get the Toronto pick.

[Pauleta14]

Salaun will be the pick if the Spurs get the Toronto pick.

I'd like him or Cody with the Toronto pick

Lots of unknown but biggest upsides of the draft bc of their body type imo

[itzsoweezee]

If the Spurs don’t select either of Risascher or Salaun, I’ll be disappointed. A great opportunity to get size and shooting on the wing, a desperately needed perimeter defender

[SpursBills]

https://youtu.be/E-76ZcXkk3c?si=pR68o7QNRHBUh-gm

1783968138033352708

Fascinated with this kid. Really like the combination of tools, age and versatility.
Apparently the second cousin of Rudy Gay FWIW…

One of my biggest fears for this draft is that the FO will look at this kid and see a second chance at finding the Josh Primo-like initiator that they wanted years ago, then take him with like the raptors pick or something

[BackHome]

If the Spurs don’t select either of Risascher or Salaun, I’ll be disappointed. A great opportunity to get size and shooting on the wing, a desperately needed perimeter defender

Your probably going to be disappointed because Risascher will be drafted before our pick and the Raptors will probably keep there pick...

[Ariel]

Salaun will be the pick if the Spurs get the Toronto pick.
Ugh... if so I'd rather it not convey.

[Ariel]

One of my biggest fears for this draft is that the FO will look at this kid and see a second chance at finding the Josh Primo-like initiator that they wanted years ago, then take him with like the raptors pick or something
Whoever made the Primo pick should just STFU and let somebody else do the picking for at least 5 years.

[Mr. Body]

Salaun - I'd be very surprised if the Spurs pick a player who is several years away from being able to contribute. They have a roster jam as it is and then six potential lottery picks in the next three years.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/NoCeilingsNBA/status/1784663740992094301

[PhantomDashCam]

One of my biggest fears for this draft is that the FO will look at this kid and see a second chance at finding the Josh Primo-like initiator that they wanted years ago, then take him with like the raptors pick or something

I wasn’t a fan of the Primo pick at the time but the Spurs have had some hits over the years too operating with the same MO.
With a supposed flat draft, I’m sure players will move up and down draft boards through workouts and the combine process.
Carlton feels like one of those guys to me.

[Vienna]

https://twitter.com/NoCeilingsNBA/status/1784663740992094301

they played Paris, currently the number two in the French league. They lost the Eurocup finals against the two weeks ago, with Risacher struggeling, especially in the second of two lost games. So it was kind of a nice comeback for him I guess.
it went unnoticed, that Risacher had a 14 points, 10 rebounds game during the week, so over the last three games he averaged 15.3 points on 40% shooting from 3. so he might have come out of his slump and is back to where he was in the First half of his long season.

[mo7888]

they played Paris, currently the number two in the French league. They lost the Eurocup finals against the two weeks ago, with Risacher struggeling, especially in the second of two lost games. So it was kind of a nice comeback for him I guess.
it went unnoticed, that Risacher had a 14 points, 10 rebounds game during the week, so over the last three games he averaged 15.3 points on 40% shooting from 3. so he might have come out of his slump and is back to where he was in the First half of his long season.

He's still #1 on my BB and top 3 on my Spurs BB.

[spurraider21]

While the gap had shrunk i never moved Risacher off the top spot of my board. I’ve settled in on Dilly and Sheppard rounding out the top 3 but can’t really decide between the two. Was leaning Sheppard last week, Dilly this week

[spurraider21]

1783869246541299748

[Russ]

Salaun will be the pick if the Spurs get the Toronto pick.

If you don't get Salaun, you can always go for Salaun lite, fellow Frenchman Pacome Dadiet, in the 2d round.

Not a bad consolation prize.

[spurraider21]

Before this season Risacher was regularly seen as a top 5-10 pick. This was before anybody knew he could shoot. The underachieving of this class helps but the shooting growth has made him an easy #1 pick to me, since the spurs have no natural use for Sarr

[Dejounte]

If we’re saying 34% is above subpar shooting, then I guess Risacher is your guy. This will be a fun thread to go back to in coming years. Spurstalk’s latest golden child after Bertans, Poku before him tbh.

[spurraider21]

If we’re saying 34% is above subpar shooting, then I guess Risacher is your guy. This will be a fun thread to go back to in coming years. Spurstalk’s latest golden child after Bertans, Poku before him tbh.
Bertans was never his tier of player. He was DAF’s baby tho.

i always like Bertans, so I’m not trying to distance myself from him. Risacher is just much more well rounded. Bertans was an awesome shooter who had enough juice to beat some closeouts. But he couldn’t really handle the ball, and couldn’t defend any position. Risacher is a much more comfortable ball handler and defends well. Overseas Bertans flashed here and there with some athletic weakside blocks but that was never a thing for him in the nba

he’s also shooting 42% from 3 on the season still, if you combine is LNB and Eurocup games

[rascal]

Before this season Risacher was regularly seen as a top 5-10 pick. This was before anybody knew he could shoot. The underachieving of this class helps but the shooting growth has made him an easy #1 pick to me, since the spurs have no natural use for Sarr

Sarr is the number 1 pick. Highest upside player. Wemby can play with any talented frontline player.

Foolish Spurstalk idea that Wemby can't play with Sarr and yet believe Sochan and Wemby are a good fit.
.

[TrainOfThought5]

Sarr is the number 1 pick. Highest upside player. Wemby can play with any talented frontline player.

Foolish Spurstalk idea that Wemby can't play with Sarr and yet believe Sochan and Wemby are a good fit.
.

id love to see the resurrection of the Twin Towers.

[BackHome]

If you don't get Salaun, you can always go for Salaun lite, fellow Frenchman Pacome Dadiet, in the 2d round.

Not a bad consolation prize.

Yeah, I like him more then Ajinca as I think he is a better defender and better upside potential but I see him as a SF and Salaun is definitely a PF in the NBA. Another kid I am starting to really like is Nikola Dkurisic - SG-6'7

[spurraider21]

Sarr is the number 1 pick. Highest upside player. Wemby can play with any talented frontline player.

Foolish Spurstalk idea that Wemby can't play with Sarr and yet believe Sochan and Wemby are a good fit.
.
im not a big sochan believer

[Ariel]

Sarr is the number 1 pick. Highest upside player. Wemby can play with any talented frontline player.

Foolish Spurstalk idea that Wemby can't play with Sarr and yet believe Sochan and Wemby are a good fit.
Wemby can play with Sarr. He also can play with Castle, your other boy. Problem is, Wemby CAN'T play with either Castle/Sarr AND Sochan AND Wesley AND Barlow AND Cissoko, you can't have your entire developmental crew be challenged shooters because you can't develop them all at once. If the Spurs really believe one of Sarr / Castle (or Topic / Buzelis / Holland / Collier) is clearly the best prospect available, then by all means they should take him, but they have to make other moves immediately to accomodate him by moving others, and that is only worth if you think the gap is large. If not, then it's probably better to just take your chances with the non shooting challenged prospects, and continue to work on the young guys already on your roster. Personally, I'd only consider taking a non shooter if we have 2 lottery picks and take a shooter with the other, and only if he's far and above the rest and has promise to put it together eventually. My candidate for that is Buzelis (skilled and shot about 40% in HS), but I have a feeling the Spurs will prioritize Castle.

[SpursBills]

Sarr is the number 1 pick. Highest upside player. Wemby can play with any talented frontline player.

Foolish Spurstalk idea that Wemby can't play with Sarr and yet believe Sochan and Wemby are a good fit.
.

Don’t want to put words in your mouth, but just wanted to clarify - if another team offered the number 1 or 2 pick for sochan and the spurs’ own pick, you do that in a second right?

[Ariel]

Don’t want to put words in your mouth, but just wanted to clarify - if another team offered the number 1 or 2 pick for sochan and the spurs’ own pick, you do that in a second right?
Not to put words in rascal's mouth, but he'd probably ship out Sochan for a burger and a diet coke.

[Dejounte]

Bertans was never his tier of player. He was DAF’s baby tho.

i always like Bertans, so I’m not trying to distance myself from him. Risacher is just much more well rounded. Bertans was an awesome shooter who had enough juice to beat some closeouts. But he couldn’t really handle the ball, and couldn’t defend any position. Risacher is a much more comfortable ball handler and defends well. Overseas Bertans flashed here and there with some athletic weakside blocks but that was never a thing for him in the nba

he’s also shooting 42% from 3 on the season still, if you combine is LNB and Eurocup games

Before his hot streak, he was a 34% shooter and ~70% FT shooter. After his hot streak, he was a 34% and 70% FT shooter. Not sure why the fluky 40% 3pt shooting is more believable than the numbers he posted before and after.

I found this somewhere else but it was said that players who hovered around 70% FT shooting and had a streak of high 3PT shooting were the following players: Davion Mitchell, Markelle Fultz, Derrick Williams.

For someone who has been high on this guy for awhile, I wish you’d (along with mo) watch the 2 hour video I posted because there’s no way in hell anyone should think this guy is comfortable handling the ball. His little behind the back move he does every now and then is barely in his control and is a turnover waiting to happen in the NBA. A 2 hour video of your favorite prospect is the same length as one of the train wreck Spurs games you watched this year. You have time for that.

There’s a reason why he barely attacks close outs and settles for a contested 3 or step back 3’s… it’s because he has little creativity with his handle. He does a straight line drive most of the time and when he’s met with a body, he’s forced to put it up at a bad angle because he can’t handle the physicality.

[spurraider21]

I mean sure you could choose to throw out 17 games of a 46 game sample size. I question how helpful that is.

our current placeholder three point specialist starting SF just hit under 37% of his 3s for the season btw

[ginobilized]

This draft is such a crapshoot.

Here's an off the beaten path thought, do one of our division rivals grab Edey to combat Wemby?
I'm not saying it's a smart idea, but, these things do happen. Seems like Houston or maybe OKC would do this.

[Dejounte]

I mean sure you could choose to throw out 17 games of a 46 game sample size. I question how helpful that is.

our current placeholder three point specialist starting SF just hit under 37% of his 3s for the season btw

That’s disingenuous (just like your funny post in the other thread :lmao) . I clearly said before his hot streak, which includes the other years he played pro. 85+ game sample size.

[heyheymymy]

Yeah, I like him more then Ajinca as I think he is a better defender and better upside potential but I see him as a SF and Salaun is definitely a PF in the NBA. Another kid I am starting to really like is Nikola Dkurisic - SG-6'7


Could totally see Djurisic as a draft and stash pick for SA

[MultiTroll]

1783869246541299748
I like the block.

As to the going the other way then the layup, incredibly pussified D by the opponent.

[heyheymymy]

Wow that is some impressive open court burst on the track down block by Risacher

Watching MPJ during the Nuggets playoffs kinda has me envisioning that role from Risacher in SA as an ideal to work towards

[Big Empty]

This draft is such a crapshoot.

Here's an off the beaten path thought, do one of our division rivals grab Edey to combat Wemby?
I'm not saying it's a smart idea, but, these things do happen. Seems like Houston or maybe OKC would do this.OKC grabbing Edey is my worst nightmare for this reason. Wemby isnt going to put on 50 pounds of muscle we need a solid strong big center to help him out

[Bruno]

Lottery is in two weeks (Sunday May 12th) and it's interesting to note that Spurs and Raptors pick influence each other.

There are 5 possible outcomes for Spurs:

1) 21% likelihood: Spurs got a top 4 pick and a pick in the #7 to #9 range (#9 being unlikely).

2) 21% likelihood: Spurs got only a top 4 pick.

3) 33% likelihood: Spurs got two consecutive picks between #6 and #9 (most likely cases being #6+#7 and #7+#8).

4) 23% likelihood: Spurs got only one pick between #6 and #9 (getting #6 or #7 being the most likely).

5) 2% likelihood: Spurs got only pick #5.


Math was done quickly but it should be right with a 1% or 2% margin of error.
To me, the first 3 cases would be fine for Spurs. There are a 75% odd that the lottery end up with a positive outcome for Spurs.

[spurraider21]

Sarr is the number 1 pick. Highest upside player. Wemby can play with any talented frontline player.

Foolish Spurstalk idea that Wemby can't play with Sarr and yet believe Sochan and Wemby are a good fit.
.
1785014436266381693

[KobesAchilles]

Before his hot streak, he was a 34% shooter and ~70% FT shooter. After his hot streak, he was a 34% and 70% FT shooter. Not sure why the fluky 40% 3pt shooting is more believable than the numbers he posted before and after.

I found this somewhere else but it was said that players who hovered around 70% FT shooting and had a streak of high 3PT shooting were the following players: Davion Mitchell, Markelle Fultz, Derrick Williams.

For someone who has been high on this guy for awhile, I wish you’d (along with mo) watch the 2 hour video I posted because there’s no way in hell anyone should think this guy is comfortable handling the ball. His little behind the back move he does every now and then is barely in his control and is a turnover waiting to happen in the NBA. A 2 hour video of your favorite prospect is the same length as one of the train wreck Spurs games you watched this year. You have time for that.

There’s a reason why he barely attacks close outs and settles for a contested 3 or step back 3’s… it’s because he has little creativity with his handle. He does a straight line drive most of the time and when he’s met with a body, he’s forced to put it up at a bad angle because he can’t handle the physicality.
Do you think he could get to MPJ level of a player? I don't really pretend to be a scout. But lets say that he does improve his shooting and his hot streak becomes near the norm. Lets say a 39% shooter from deep. Does he have the rebounding capability and want to on defense? Is there some dawg in him that doesn't mind doing the dirty work? Or is he just a finesse player?

[Dejounte]

Do you think he could get to MPJ level of a player? I don't really pretend to be a scout. But lets say that he does improve his shooting and his hot streak becomes near the norm. Lets say a 39% shooter from deep. Does he have the rebounding capability and want to on defense? Is there some dawg in him that doesn't mind doing the dirty work? Or is he just a finesse player?

Tbh I feel that’s his archetype. Like a MPJ-lite or a Jabari Smith-lite. Some have said Brandon Miller but Brandon Miller plays nothing like MPJ and Jabari.

The problem is, I think that if let’s say MPJ was traded to the Spurs last season, the season wouldn’t have played out different. MPJ plays off of multiple playmakers and we barely have one. He’d see his play decrease and we’d all be calling for his head. MPJ is the most replaceable player on that Nuggets team, IMO. This is part of why I’m low on Risacher.

[LeBowen]

Tbh I feel that’s his archetype. Like a MPJ-lite or a Jabari Smith-lite. The problem is, I think that if let’s say MPJ was traded to the Spurs last season, the season wouldn’t have played out different. MPJ plays off of multiple playmakers and we barely have one. He’d see his play decrease and we’d all be calling for his head. MPJ is the most replaceable player on that Nuggets team, IMO. This is part of why I’m low on Risacher.

Are people comparing him to MPJ just because of his height or?
MPJ is a low IQ wing. This is the first season where his decision making has looked solid.
Because of his non-existant fundamentals, he was always a subpar defender despite his size and athleticism.
He's averaging 13 shots in the past two seasons and is barely over 1 assist per game in Denver's fluid system. For comparison, Gordon is at 3.5.

He's not good at anything other than shooting and easy cuts when Jokic sets everything up.
Obviously having an elite 6'10 shooter is invaluable in the modern NBA, but when his shot is not falling, it often gets ugly. It's just that Denver has no depth.


I haven't seen that much of Risacher, but isn't he projected to be a good defender and a good team player, with his shot being the biggest question mark?

[Dejounte]

Are people comparing him to MPJ just because of his height or?
MPJ is a low IQ wing. This is the first season where his decision making has looked solid.
Because of his non-existant fundamentals, he was always a subpar defender despite his size and athleticism.
He's averaging 13 shots in the past two seasons and is barely over 1 assist per game in Denver's fluid system. For comparison, Gordon is at 3.5.

He's not good at anything other than shooting and easy cuts when Jokic sets everything up.
Obviously having an elite 6'10 shooter is invaluable in the modern NBA, but when his shot is not falling, it often gets ugly. It's just that Denver has no depth.


I haven't seen that much of Risacher, but isn't he projected to be a good defender and a good team player, with his shot being the biggest question mark?

I mean, your description of MPJ is basically Risacher in a nutshell from my repeated viewings of him. I’m not asking you to take my word for it. All I can say is I do the work that needs to be done to have a solid opinion on prospects because I enjoy basketball. I’ve had many good hits in the past, as well as some terrible ones too. But the main thing is, I always try to adjust the way I view the good and the bad attributes of players whenever I get it wrong. And Risacher could prove me wrong (I would hope so if he’s drafted by this team) and it will make me re-think my analysis of players. But I doubt he’ll prove me wrong. ;)

[Truckules]

Lottery is in two weeks (Sunday May 12th) and it's interesting to note that Spurs and Raptors pick influence each other.

There are 5 possible outcomes for Spurs:

1) 21% likelihood: Spurs got a top 4 pick and a pick in the #7 to #9 range (#9 being unlikely).

2) 21% likelihood: Spurs got only a top 4 pick.

3) 33% likelihood: Spurs got two consecutive picks between #6 and #9 (most likely cases being #6+#7 and #7+#8).

4) 23% likelihood: Spurs got only one pick between #6 and #9 (getting #6 or #7 being the most likely).

5) 2% likelihood: Spurs got only pick #5.


Math was done quickly but it should be right with a 1% or 2% margin of error.
To me, the first 3 cases would be fine for Spurs. There are a 75% odd that the lottery end up with a positive outcome for Spurs.

Quickley, Barrett, Barnes, Olynyk, and Poeltl is a good lineup on paper, but I'm not sure if I would expect them to be more than a 4 seed in the east next year. The question is do you value pick 7 in this weak draft as much as 13 in next year's draft. Either way, I don't think the Spurs are complaining too much. I don't think there's a "bad" outcome to the lottery for the Spurs this year.

[sfernald]

So boys do we got have any consensus yet on the two players we want if we have two top 8 or so picks? Pop is waiting for the update..

[objective]

Other than significant event creation I can't really trust any college player being labeled as 'good' or 'great'. Way too many guys were really good college defenders who didn't rise above average in the NBA, and some well below.

College game is just too divorced from the NBA combined with talent flux within all of D-1 and systems to believe in. I only trust documented events creation like steals, blocks, and deflections and even those have to be taken with a grain of salt. The advance stats aren't entirely trustworthy.

Vassell had the defensive numbers of a great great great defender but has disappointed compared to his college game when he had gaudy advanced stats that impressed the hell out of me like a ridiculous amount of pick and rolls guarded ending in turnovers. Sometimes it's all system based, Florida State just made Vassell, Barnes, and Patrick Williams look better than they were.

Culver was supposed to be a good defender at minimum. Davion Mitchell drafted into the lottery on his defense alone, he probably wouldn't make any all defense teams even going 7 or 8 deep, while Caruso was another bench guard would. And on and on and on .... So when I see things like "Stephon Castle is a great defender" , can that be trusted enough to forecast to the NBA? Because Vassell was supposed to be great, and the best in his class ... And I don't watch enough college to have an informed enough understanding of the UConn system vs other teams systems to have confidence.

I have a little more faith in pro leagues where at least everyone was good enough to get paid and was working towards getting paid in the future, whereas college doesn't have that across the board.

[JPB]

Other than significant event creation I can't really trust any college player being labeled as 'good' or 'great'. Way too many guys were really good college defenders who didn't rise above average in the NBA, and some well below.

College game is just too divorced from the NBA combined with talent flux within all of D-1 and systems to believe in. I only trust documented events creation like steals, blocks, and deflections and even those have to be taken with a grain of salt. The advance stats aren't entirely trustworthy.

Vassell had the defensive numbers of a great great great defender but has disappointed compared to his college game when he had gaudy advanced stats that impressed the hell out of me like a ridiculous amount of pick and rolls guarded ending in turnovers. Sometimes it's all system based, Florida State just made Vassell, Barnes, and Patrick Williams look better than they were.

Culver was supposed to be a good defender at minimum. Davion Mitchell drafted into the lottery on his defense alone, he probably wouldn't make any all defense teams even going 7 or 8 deep, while Caruso was another bench guard would. And on and on and on .... So when I see things like "Stephon Castle is a great defender" , can that be trusted enough to forecast to the NBA? Because Vassell was supposed to be great, and the best in his class ... And I don't watch enough college to have an informed enough understanding of the UConn system vs other teams systems to have confidence.

I have a little more faith in pro leagues where at least everyone was good enough to get paid and was working towards getting paid in the future, whereas college doesn't have that across the board.

I can only approve that.

It's really about potential (which is what makes it so uncertain). College stats and success is not useless but really has to be put in context and perspective. I'm a bit surprised when I see College stats directly used to judge how a College kid teen WILL or even could fare in the NBA where the game is so much faster, smarter, higher and more physical and where you're facing the best in the world every night vs. a bunch of "random" teens who for 80% of them won't even have a pro career anywhere in College.

What's hard to judge is notably BBIQ and team ball in College which is a mess and honestly hard to watch with the best prospects who have the team build to showcase them independently of their mistakes... It's a bit diffreent in pro leagues where prospects are playing in more organised, structured systems among vets fighting for their contracts, with a hierarchy and more pressure. That"s the reason why the best euro prospects don't enter College programs but stay in Europe where it's better for their development.

[pookenstein]

Quickley, Barrett, Barnes, Olynyk, and Poeltl is a good lineup on paper, but I'm not sure if I would expect them to be more than a 4 seed in the east next year. The question is do you value pick 7 in this weak draft as much as 13 in next year's draft. Either way, I don't think the Spurs are complaining too much. I don't think there's a "bad" outcome to the lottery for the Spurs this year.

No way that is a top 4 seed in the East. Celtics, Philly, Bucks, NY, Magic are definitely better. Heat and Pacers most likely as well. And if the cavs don't all over sudden blow it up, they are as well.

[heyheymymy]

1785357306726613075

[Mugen]

1785357306726613075

Outside of maybe Clingan and Sarr, I can't think of a single top 10 prospect in this draft who wouldn't prefer to end up in San Antonio compared to the other teams in the lottery tbh.

[SpursBills]

Not too surprising. Spurs make by far the most sense for Dilly.

Does Dilly make the most sense for the Spurs? I think that's the question we're all trying to figure out

[baseline bum]

So boys do we got have any consensus yet on the two players we want if we have two top 8 or so picks? Pop is waiting for the update..

Probably Giddey and Hayward

[spurraider21]

Not too surprising. Spurs make by far the most sense for Dilly.

Does Dilly make the most sense for the Spurs? I think that's the question we're all trying to figure out
its him or sheppard. desperately need a lead guard that is a threat to pull up from 3 when defenders try to go under the screen. dillingham is much more explosive off the dribble though which plays well into wemby's roll game. sheppard is a solid pick and roll navigator as well, but just doesnt apply the same pressure dillingham does. the trade off is that sheppard at least brings some plus instincts and effort on the defensive end, even if he's not particularly great at the point of attack. i think he does enough there to at least be a net positive

topic provides neither the shooting pressure nor the defensive impact, but you can get a little wilder trying to project him. figure if he has anything close to the reported 7 foot wingspan theres at least the potential for him to learn to use that to his advantage, and its easier to hide a defender with solid size than a smurf. even with a sup optimal release, if he ever develops a solid 3 point shot, he'd be able to get it off pretty easily against the average PG who will be smaller than him. his FT% is very strong, so there are some signs. but its a lot more "ifs" with him, particularly given the competition level

[baseline bum]

its him or sheppard. desperately need a lead guard that is a threat to pull up from 3 when defenders try to go under the screen. dillingham is much more explosive off the dribble though which plays well into wemby's roll game. sheppard is a solid pick and roll navigator as well, but just doesnt apply the same pressure dillingham does. the trade off is that sheppard at least brings some plus instincts and effort on the defensive end, even if he's not particularly great at the point of attack. i think he does enough there to at least be a net positive

topic provides neither the shooting pressure nor the defensive impact, but you can get a little wilder trying to project him. figure if he has anything close to the reported 7 foot wingspan theres at least the potential for him to learn to use that to his advantage, and its easier to hide a defender with solid size than a smurf.

I got Dilly Plan A, Sheppard Plan B, and who the fuck knows plans C-J. Sheppard doesn't have enough size for me put him over Rob. Maybe Buzelis and Topic Plans C & D?

[spurraider21]

I got Dilly Plan A, Sheppard Plan B, and who the fuck knows plans C-J. Sheppard doesn't have enough size for me put him over Rob. Maybe Buzelis and Topic Plans C & D?
i still like risacher a ton. after those 3, as much as it hurts to take a non shooter, i'd swing at holland. topic only after that. for me the big drop is after those top 3

[baseline bum]

i still like risacher a ton. after those 3, as much as it hurts to take a non shooter, i'd swing at holland. topic only after that.

Fuck I meant to put Risacher Plan B, Sheppard Plan C. Buzelis is my Plan D for the size and hope that it's just G-League Ignite that made him look like a shitty shooter. Topic probably next because what the fuck is there left anyways? Really don't like Holland at all. Would probably go another boom or bust in Cody Williams ahead of him, though I don't like him much either. :lol

[LeBowen]

There's no need for any point guard plans past A and B.
I still think combine and all the workouts will be the decisive factor for the big board.

I just don't buy into these conflicting reports about draft and potential trades.
I don't see them drafting a point guard and getting an all-star point guard in a trade, too much change for Pop.
Although I'd like to trade Tre and not offer him another deal since he's on an expiring.

[spurraider21]

Fuck I meant to put Risacher Plan B, Sheppard Plan C. Buzelis is my Plan D for the size and hope that it's just G-League Ignite that made him look like a shitty shooter. Topic probably next because what the fuck is there left anyways? Really don't like Holland at all. Would probably go another boom or bust in Cody Williams ahead of him, though I don't like him much either. :lol
im not sure what im supposed to seeing from Buzelis. feels like sochan with a better shooting form. oh, he can kind of handle the ball and pass a little, but not really. he cant really shoot. is an effort defender who isnt particularly long/athletic. yeah maybe he becomes less sochan and more wagner. at least with holland you can see a path to him being an impact player. anybody that athletic who is committed to defense can find a place. look at the thompson twins. and i dont think his jumper is as bad as theirs

could be talked into Cody but he just doesnt look assertive at all, and that worries me. could see him being quite good in a year or two though if he starts putting it together. he has a solid baseline skill sit and very good length/build with a 3 point shot in development

[baseline bum]

im not sure what im supposed to seeing from Buzelis. feels like sochan with a better shooting form. oh, he can kind of handle the ball and pass a little, but not really. he cant really shoot. is an effort defender who isnt particularly long/athletic. yeah maybe he becomes less sochan and more wagner. at least with holland you can see a path to him being an impact player. anybody that athletic who is committed to defense can find a place. look at the thompson twins. and i dont think his jumper is as bad as theirs

could be talked into Cody but he just doesnt look assertive at all, and that worries me. could see him being quite good in a year or two though if he starts putting it together. he has a solid baseline skill sit and very good length/build with a 3 point shot in development

Sochan with a shot could be an interesting prospect. If I'm drafting for defense give me Castle over Holland. Yeah he's a terrible fit next to Wemby, but so is Holland.

[spurraider21]

Sochan with a shot could be an interesting prospect. If I'm drafting for defense give me Castle over Holland. Yeah he's a terrible fit next to Wemby, but so is Holland.
yeah castle is a better defender right now, but that was also playing on a loaded team with the luxury of having clingan behind him. supposedly he was a lead guard in high school who handled pick and rolls, but from what i saw at uconn he was more of just an opportunistic scorer off putbacks, cuts, etc. rarely saw him beat his man to the cup, is scared to pull up and shoot. and hes not some ball handling or passing wizard. at least with holland there's some serious juice and potential for him to be a #2 on offense

[scott]

If we get the TOR pick, double down on wings. Any two of Risacher, Buzelis, Holland. That's my meaningless vote.

[Ariel]

If we get the TOR pick, double down on wings. Any two of Risacher, Buzelis, Holland. That's my meaningless vote.
From an ideal roster construction standpoint, I'd be 100% with you: it's much easier to find competent guards once your wings are set. In this class, however, probably a few of the guards are safer picks and better fits, so I'd probably go 1 guard (Dillingham / Sheppard / Topic) + 1 wing (Buzelis / Risacher / Castle / Holland). But I wouldn't bet my house on anything this draft.

[spurraider21]

Sochan with a shot could be an interesting prospect. If I'm drafting for defense give me Castle over Holland. Yeah he's a terrible fit next to Wemby, but so is Holland.
the thing is, he didnt have much of a shot in the gleague. he at least has a reasonable form and had a history of being a strong shooter in college

buzelis also was a worst FT shooter in the gleague than high school, tho that can be partially explained away by the gleague's rules. i dont know the specifics, but i know that in at least some circumstances, the player shoots 1 free throw for both points, instead of taking 2 shots. and statistically, players shoot a higher % on the 2nd FTA than 1st when shooting 2, so with the "one shot for both points" system you are actually robbing the player of the more efficient of the 2 FTAs.

small thing, but could factor into some gleague FT%'s

[Silverheart80]

Dilly is a solid 'no' for me. If his defense is this abysmal in college, then there's no hope in the pros. The lottery-level guards and wings this year all have significant questions and could just as easily bust as succeed. Spurs can't afford another bust.

For me, Sarr is the choice. Put him together with VW and Sochan, and we go from one of the worst defenses to one of the scariest. Sarr's defense translates from Day One, and it'll only get better as his role becomes more defined. He's got offensive tools. Keep developing his outside shot. When Pop inevitably sits VW for 10-12 assorted games, or VW is injured, Sarr's also there to make sure the bottom doesn't fall out like it almost always did this year when VW was out. Sarr + VW together creates mismatch advantages every night. If the Spurs don't land the #1 in two weeks, trade up to get him.

If we get the TOR pick, I want Castle.

My ideal 2025 lineup:

Derrick White (UFA signing)
Alexandre Sarr
Jeremy Sochan
Stephon Castle
Victor Wembanyama

[baseline bum]

Dilly is a solid 'no' for me. If his defense is this abysmal in college, then there's no hope in the pros. The lottery-level guards and wings this year all have significant questions and could just as easily bust as succeed. Spurs can't afford another bust.

For me, Sarr is the choice. Put him together with VW and Sochan, and we go from one of the worst defenses to one of the scariest. Sarr's defense translates from Day One, and it'll only get better as his role becomes more defined. He's got offensive tools. Keep developing his outside shot. When Pop inevitably sits VW for 10-12 assorted games, or VW is injured, Sarr's also there to make sure the bottom doesn't fall out like it almost always did this year when VW was out. Sarr + VW together creates mismatch advantages every night. If the Spurs don't land the #1 in two weeks, trade up to get him.

If we get the TOR pick, I want Castle.

My ideal 2025 lineup:

Derrick White (UFA signing)
Alexandre Sarr
Jeremy Sochan
Stephon Castle
Victor Wembanyama

You mean 24-25 or 25-26? Because White is under contract next season in Boston. Not that the Spurs could have afforded him anyways when $25 million is about the best they could clear this summer. I love Castle but the team doesn't have the shooters to make him fit here. That starting five with Tre Jones instead of White would be Fratello Cavs level bad offensively and Vic would be constantly doubled and tripled.

[baseline bum]

yeah castle is a better defender right now, but that was also playing on a loaded team with the luxury of having clingan behind him. supposedly he was a lead guard in high school who handled pick and rolls, but from what i saw at uconn he was more of just an opportunistic scorer off putbacks, cuts, etc. rarely saw him beat his man to the cup, is scared to pull up and shoot. and hes not some ball handling or passing wizard. at least with holland there's some serious juice and potential for him to be a #2 on offense

I know this is a bad draft but this guy if he doesn't hit and pull new skills out his ass he screams Shanghai Sharks.

[rascal]

I don't think Castle will ever be a strong shooter. He is just awkward in his form.
Very stiff in the upper body and has a wide stance.