Official 2017 Offseason Thread

[tonight...you]

That's what I'm thinking and exactly why I don't want him. I'd be shocked if Hill comes at any less than $20 Mill.
Yeah, but do you disagree on my price, or do you think it's unreasonable for a player like George Hill, much less GH?

I say he's worth 14.

[rastaspur]

Yeah, but do you disagree on my price, or do you think it's unreasonable for a player like George Hill, much less GH?

I say he's worth 14.

My ideal price would be 15, so yeah, I agree

[DPG21920]

18-20M for a starting caliber PG is the new norm.

[tonight...you]

18-20M for a starting caliber PG is the new norm.
Dagnabbit, DPG... Stop with your level-headedness! Me no rikey.

[texbound]

Off-season ain't over bud. Or is it? Am I wrong? Where the hell am I? Why do I have handcuffs on one wrist?

Technically, Free agency hasn't even begun...so, yeah Spurs are doing horrible in free agency.

[TimDunkem]

Yeah, but do you disagree on my price, or do you think it's unreasonable for a player like George Hill, much less GH?

I say he's worth 14.
Sure. I'd take him at that price even if he's not my ideal first choice.

[rastaspur]

That's what I'm thinking and exactly why I don't want him. I'd be shocked if Hill comes at any less than $20 Mill.

That's my fear. It's a gamble just the same at over twenty same as with cp3 due to injury risks ( which i was clueless on until i looked it up today)but it's just not a buyers market, which totally sucks

[tonight...you]

Technically, Free agency hasn't even begun...so, yeah Spurs are doing horrible in free agency.
:lol

True.

[TimDunkem]

18-20M for a starting caliber PG is the new norm.
Don't think he's worth it at that price even in this market. That's just me though.

I'm not the biggest Hill fan, obviously...:lol

[bic50]

Off-season ain't over bud. Or is it? Am I wrong? Where the hell am I? Why do I have handcuffs on one wrist?
Yeah you're right. Hopefully Spurs can land a top 5 player in g.hill

[tonight...you]

That's my fear. It's a gamble just the same at over twenty, but it's just not a buyers market, which totally sucks
I willing to wait and see on this front. Who saw Houston trading all their worthless scrubs to the Clips for a generational point guard before today?

[rjv]

Don't think he's worth it at that price even in this market. That's just me though.

I'm not the biggest Hill fan, obviously...:lol hill would have to come at a big time bargain for me to warm up to the idea. if not, i'd really rather just hand the reigns over to murray and see if he can blossom into our next star player.

[tonight...you]

Yeah you're right. Hopefully Spurs can land a top 5 player in g.hill
One can only hope, bud. One can only hope.

Oh! maybe I should have put a sarcasm font on that shit!

Fuck it...

[rastaspur]

I willing to wait and see on this front. Who saw Houston trading all their worthless scrubs to the Clips for a generational point guard before today?

Fingers crossed. I'm not expecting anything at this point. That way I can be pleasantly suprised if a great deal is arranged revolving around LMA and whomever

[TimDunkem]

hill would have to come at a big time bargain for me to warm up to the idea. if not, i'd really rather just hand the reigns over to murray and see if he can blossom into our next star player.
Him coming at 18-20 mill is way more than I think he'll sacrifice. Like you, I'd rather just hand Murray the keys.

[tonight...you]

hill would have to come at a big time bargain for me to warm up to the idea. if not, i'd really rather just hand the reigns over to murray and see if he can blossom into our next star player.
Well... he HAS been in CenTex hunting in the SA area for the past several days. Why, in this damnable heat? I couldn't guess, but he truly does love it here.

[TimDunkem]

Fingers crossed. I'm not expecting anything at this point. That way I can be pleasantly suprised if a great deal is arranged revolving around LMA and whomever
See, this is where I'm coming from. :lol

[I. Hustle]

We have been spoiled as fans and honestly it's turned alot of us into whiny bitches who expect greatness perpetually.

Hey, mon! Yuh speaking di troof

[TimDunkem]

GUYS! I found the Spurs real target at PG this off-season. :smokin

880184692275851265

[tonight...you]

GUYS! I found the Spurs real target at PG this off-season. :smokin

880184692275851265
Lol... you is a jerk.

[marinoman]

We need a upgrade on both guards not just point, god I hope we don't have another year of starting green

[TimDunkem]

880102589098012673

[rastaspur]

GUYS! I found the Spurs real target at PG this off-season. :smokin

880184692275851265
:lol


Roll tide! As an alumnus I can't even support bringing his washed up ass into the mix.

[noles1983]

880102589098012673

Great. Would weaken the East even more and make the West even tougher.

[Mr. Body]

I can see the Rox landing George now. Thing is, I'm still not sure it's gonna work.

[TheGreatYacht]

What a shitty off-season for the Spurs. Damn can't get nobody :lol
I used to think you were a homer, bic. Good to see you're a realist :tu

Buford's grade so far: F

[DPG21920]

I just don't see how HOU has anyway to beat others offers unless they eat deals too.

[cd98]

I'd be worried about CP3, Harden, and PG, personally.

[noles1983]

All these high profile trades across the league and we get stuck with a loyalty TP contract. Fuck I wish this organization would grow some balls and cut bait with players after they outlast their usefulness.

[tonight...you]

A TGY endorsement is like pissing on yourself and not cleaning it off til you get a rash.

Love you, TGY!

[rastaspur]

880102589098012673

Geez. Rockets trying anything and everything.

What's next? Are they going to buy another team, pick away the talent and then dismantle it? Silver doesn't seem to believe in policing anything.

Nba is running wild like tombstone this offseason.

[cjw]

I just don't see how HOU has anyway to beat others offers unless they eat deals too.

This. There's no way they can swing a George trade unless it's Capella + Gordon + first. Other offers are just better.

[cd98]

Geez. Rockets trying anything and everything.

What's next? Are they going to buy another team, pick away the talent and then dismantle it? Silver doesn't seem to believe in policing anything.

Nba is running wild like tombstone this offseason.

They would Mitt Romney style.

[DocDoc]

I'd be worried about CP3, Harden, and PG, personally.

They will have to gut the rest of the team to get PG.

[TimDunkem]

This. There's no way they can swing a George trade unless it's Capella + Gordon + first. Other offers are just better.
That's probably what they're offering.

[rjv]

They will have to gut the rest of the team to get PG. maybe they think it's the G3 league.

[Gordy58]

What about Jeff Teague guys? Haven't really seen much hype surrounding him, he's still 28 and a decent season. Might not cost as much as someone like George hill, jrue, or Lowry. I wouldn't mind him at all if the price is right.

[cjw]

That's probably what they're offering.

Do you take that, or the Celtics offering more? Even though they're in your conference.

[TimDunkem]

I believe Teague will get paid too, but I wouldn't mind him.

[cd98]

GUYS! I found the Spurs real target at PG this off-season. :smokin

880184692275851265

We like to sign retirees to short term contracts.

[Hoops Czar]

Do you take that, or the Celtics offering more? Even though they're in your conference.

There could be three way in the works. Either way, they'll find a way.

[rastaspur]

What about Jeff Teague guys? Haven't really seen much hype surrounding him, he's still 28 and a decent season. Might not cost as much as someone like George hill, jrue, or Lowry. I wouldn't mind him at all if the price is right.

I would think he would command a similar deal to g hill. Younger, less injury prone. He's not going to be substantially cheaper imo

[SuperCam]

spurs are the green bay packers of the nba. one elite player the front office is happy to surround with turds while stupid homer fans happy to stand pat because of one title in the last ten years and pin their hopes on ceiling role players like Murray and Fathead "developing" :lol

[TimDunkem]

Do you take that, or the Celtics offering more? Even though they're in your conference.
I'd prefer he stays in the East unless he's coming here of course. :lol

[gambit1990]

the players people are trying to be realistic about getting are players that don't move the needle nearly as much.

porzingis should be target #1 if available.

i'll take teague over rose, lowry, would cost less than hill.

[ECOV]

Hayward to meet with heat on Saturday

[ECOV]

spurs are the green bay packers of the nba. one elite player the front office is happy to surround with turds while stupid homer fans happy to stand pat because of one title in the last ten years and pin their hopes on ceiling role players like Murray and Fathead "developing" :lol

well.. yeah. that's sports for you.

[Down Under]

I love George Hill but you can't be paying him 25 mil/year which some team will that is insanity. He's not going to lift us to GSW level so you may as well just ride with Murray and get some idea of how good he can be.

[picnroll]

As a gauge of Aldridge's value in trade, two teams were asking for two first round picks to take Anderson off of Houston's hands.

[NASpurs]

For those slitting your wrists at the CP3 news, you would had thought you guys learned something when you bitched and complained about Parker's contract and age. :lol

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[ace3g]

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[Nathan89]

For those slitting your wrists at the CP3 news, you would had thought you guys learned something when you bitched and complained about Parker's contract and age. :lol

880206549766914048

Bullet dodged.

[CGD]

880166881310724096

Meh, seems weird

[picnroll]

880166881310724096

But Spurs still have to surround Kawhi with talent in his prime.

[TheDoctor]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ccf1F2MW0AEfaO2.jpg

[Chomag]

Those here that seem saticfied that the FO stands pat must really want to see Kawai carrying all of the load again. Dudes going to start breaking down deep in the PLAYOFFS again if you want to force him to carry all of the offence and defence all by himself. As good as KL is he does need some players that actually take some load off of him. Keeping an old broken down parker and an way past his time Manu with a bunch of mid level role players is not going to do it.

As great as the FO is good at finding and developing talent they seem to allways have a weakness or even a fear of putting themselves out their and taking a risk.

[TimDunkem]

880166881310724096
Just wait until a ball comes crashing into the bar. :lol

[tmtcsc]

I love George Hill but you can't be paying him 25 mil/year which some team will that is insanity. He's not going to lift us to GSW level so you may as well just ride with Murray and get some idea of how good he can be.

25 Million per? Oh hell no. I would have taken CP3 at that amount only because he adds value to Aldridge too. But for GH3? 14-15 Mill per.

[look_at_g_shred]

Just wait until a ball comes crashing into the bar. :lol
Those end of quarter half court shots :lol

[TimDunkem]

25 Million per? Oh hell no.
That's after the discount. :lol

[TimDunkem]

Those end of quarter half court shots :lol
Exactly what I was thinking. :lol

[Nathan89]

Spurs didn't show significant interest in Chris Paul, source told ESPN. Already have an aging point guard in Tony Parker.

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0671749706224767707-4

Spurs shouldn't be interested in Hill either then.:flag:

[TimDunkem]

Spurs didn't show significant interest in Chris Paul, source told ESPN. Already have an aging point guard in Tony Parker.

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0671749706224767707-4

Spurs shouldn't be interested in Hill either then.:flag::bobo

[sasaint]

Spurs didn't show significant interest in Chris Paul, source told ESPN. Already have an aging point guard in Tony Parker.

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0671749706224767707-4

Spurs shouldn't be interested in Hill either then.:flag:

Been saying it since the middle of last season: Give the keys to Dijon! I think that's where we are headed. :tu

[cutewizard]

Imagine if we got Blake?????!!!!!

[bic50]

Been saying it since the middle of last season: Give the keys to Dijon! I think that's where we are headed. :tu
Pop seems reluctant to do that.

[cutewizard]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19759358/nba-phil-jackson-biggest-failure-was-letting-game-pass-by

[cutewizard]

Check this out:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19759358/nba-phil-jackson-biggest-failure-was-letting-game-pass-by

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Phil Jackson once wrote (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/13307527/the-phil-files-part-5-kobe-bryant-jerry-krause-criticisms) that Kobe Bryant was uncoachable, and Wednesday morning that bygone critique was worth a good laugh or three.
Before the New York Knicks (http://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/ny/new-york-knicks) mercifully parted ways with him as president of basketball operations, Jackson had proved to be among the most uncoachable executives in league history.
EDITOR'S PICKS

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/photo/2017/0628/r222893_2_600x400_3-2.jpg&w=130&h=130&scale=crop&location=center (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19755552/new-york-knicks-team-president-phil-jackson-mutually-agree-part-ways)Knicks, Phil mutually part ways after 3 years (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19755552/new-york-knicks-team-president-phil-jackson-mutually-agree-part-ways)The Knicks and president Phil Jackson announced Wednesday morning that they have mutually parted ways. Conversations of Jackson's departure accelerated this week when the organization decided it would not buy out Carmelo Anthony.

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/photo/2017/0628/r222893_2_608x342_16-9.jpg&w=130&h=130&scale=crop&location=center (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19757533/experts-new-york-knicks-phil-jackson-carmelo-anthony-nba)What's the future for the Knicks with Phil Jackson out? (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19757533/experts-new-york-knicks-phil-jackson-carmelo-anthony-nba)What should the Knicks do about Carmelo Anthony and the future of the franchise? Our crew debates and predicts their next moves.

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/photo/2014/0318/nba_a_knicksts_608x342.jpg&w=130&h=130&scale=crop&location=center (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19757472/nba-james-dolan-throws-away-money-part-phil-jackson)Add Phil Jackson to the list of dead-money deals for the Dolan-era Knicks (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19757472/nba-james-dolan-throws-away-money-part-phil-jackson)James Dolan will likely have to eat more than $20 million now that Phil Jackson is out as team president. But this isn't the first time the Knicks owner tossed a ton of money at someone on their way out the door.

He never did the legwork, the scouting, the recruiting, all the things that the two Jerrys -- Krause and West -- did for him in Chicago and Los Angeles. The league moved too fast for Jackson, and he never showed any desire to catch up. If you're thinking that Phil might have newfound respect for the jobs done by the two Jerrys, especially the late Krause, whom he regularly mocked while the Bulls were winning six titles, think again.
Jackson won a record 11 combined rings with the Bulls and Lakers, but he's been at the bottom of all league metrics measuring humility for a very long time.
Knicks owner James Dolan gave Jackson $60 million over five years in March 2014 to save the franchise and to end the public pounding he was taking from columnists and fans. The Knicks had won a grand total of one playoff series since 2000, and even though Jackson wasn't going to coach, this was one move the ever-bumbling Dolan couldn't be ripped for.
Phil was still Phil. He was still a link to the early '70s glory days of his mentor, Red Holzman. He was still a good bet to make the Knicks competitive and relevant before retiring to his favorite California beach.
When the losses kept piling up under Jackson on his way to a 90-171 record in New York, Dolan offered these same two words to those inquiring about the continued downward spiral: "Ask Phil." Only Phil was rarely available to answer any questions about his bizarre mismanagement of the roster. He'd pledged upon introduction to make the Knicks a more transparent operation, and that was one of many promises he wouldn't keep.


Jackson's detached arrogance never served him well, nor did his insistence on sacrificing simple win-loss mathematics at the altar of his cherished triangle algorithms. There's nothing wrong with the triangle offense, mind you; Michael Jordan (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/1035/michael-jordan) and Scottie Pippen (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/663/scottie-pippen) and Shaquille O'Neal and Bryant did just fine with it. But there's something terribly wrong with forcing a system on guards and big men incapable of executing it, and with forcing a system on coaches who didn't love it any more than their players did.
Early on it became clear Jackson took this massive rebuilding job for all the wrong reasons. "If Dolan offered him $2 million a year or even $5 million, he wouldn't have taken it," Krause told ESPN.com in 2015. "But $12 million is overwhelming. Phil didn't take the job because he thought he had a playoff club. He took the job for the money."
He took the money and ran himself out of town. Jackson didn't just publicly humiliate one Knicks star at the end of his prime (Carmelo Anthony (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/1975/carmelo-anthony)), and another at the beginning of his prime (Kristaps Porzingis (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3102531/kristaps-porzingis)); he also guaranteed that LeBron James (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/1966/lebron-james) would never consider playing full-time in his favorite gym, Madison Square Garden, with an unnecessary and lazy-minded remark (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18055626/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-slams-phil-jackson-referring-business-partners-posse) about James' business associates.
Jackson was supposed to recruit free agents, and instead he chased them away. One longtime league official said the other day that while he agreed with Jackson's desire to trade Anthony to start a true makeover, he couldn't understand why the Knicks president went out of his way to trash the forward at every turn.


"Doesn't he understand that Carmelo still has a really big voice amongst the players in this league?" the official asked. "No, Carmelo isn't the same player he once was, but LeBron and Chris Paul (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2779/chris-paul) and a lot of very important stars really like and respect him. So what do you think those guys are going to say when Phil tries to recruit them to New York?"
They don't have to worry about that anymore. Dolan dismissed his own promise to keep Jackson for the full five years, and gave Phil the exit interview Porzingis didn't attend.




Truth is, Jackson began firing himself the day he didn't close the deal on Steve Kerr as his head coach. Derek Fisher was a disaster, and Jeff Hornacek was the very definition of an uninspiring hire. Jackson gave Anthony his no-trade clause, made the deals for Derrick Rose (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3456/derrick-rose) and Joakim Noah (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3224/joakim-noah), and then tried and failed to pivot back to a youth movement.
"I think we know what we're doing," Jackson said on MSG-TV last week. ESPN's Jay Williams reported that Jackson fell in and out of sleep while watching (or trying to watch) a draft prospect work out, and finally Dolan woke up.
"After careful thought and consideration," the owner said in a statement, "we mutually agreed that the Knicks will be going in a different direction."
Dolan then went on about Jackson's unmatched legacy as a coach. It should be noted that Phil built that legacy, in part, by doing exactly what he did for the past three seasons.
He killed the Knicks.

--------------------------------------------------

omg

[cutewizard]

boy, what a loser that phil guy is

he just road the backs of Jordan and Shaq

----------------------------------------

AM I GLAD WE ARE THE SPURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SAGirl]

As a gauge of Aldridge's value in trade, two teams were asking for two first round picks to take Anderson off of Houston's hands.

wow... :wow
I think Lamarcus is a better player than Ryan but he has depressed his own trade value with a horrible postseason showing and on top of that bitchiness and diva attitude. After doing Lillard like he did, and now Leonard, I wonder if there is anyone out there that even wants to play with him. Than on top of that he's older and is not going to fit the window of teams that have been tanking and are full of youngsters.

[sasaint]

Krause, West and Winter - the real men behind the Phil Jackson legend.

[gambit1990]

make spurs great again

[ace3g]

880233836755300352

880235051266461696

[Jdspur20]

Those end of quarter half court shots :lol

Boy, going to be great to see lol

[ace3g]

880235623285530624

880236576948625409

[CGD]

Man, if I'm Simms i want my pay day locked in before playing pick up

[objective]

Bogdanovic is signing with the Kings for a reported 3/36

Seeing another Serb wait out the 3 years then get a huge deal far above the rookie scale might be something Milutinov factors in when he decides on his next season. Bogdanovic is a much more important player in Europe, but the principle is the same

[Chinook]

Bogdanovic is signing with the Kings for a reported 3/36

Seeing another Serb wait out the 3 years then get a huge deal far above the rookie scale might be something Milutinov factors in when he decides on his next season. Bogdanovic is a much more important player in Europe, but the principle is the same

Glad to see it. Hopefully, this ends the idea of stashing first-rounders.

[Chinook]

I'm intrigued by what Teague can do in the Zipper Series. He's probably the most Parker-like PG in the league, and that offense made everyone better. Issue is that Tony was a much bigger target when he ran it. I doubt defenses with twist themselves inside-out to prevent Teague from taking a mid-range shot.

[GSH]

Man, if I'm Simms i want my pay day locked in before playing pick up

x100 That young man could fuck up his whole future, with one freak accident. It's his life, but that makes me cringe.

[GSH]

Bogdanovic is signing with the Kings for a reported 3/36

Seeing another Serb wait out the 3 years then get a huge deal far above the rookie scale might be something Milutinov factors in when he decides on his next season. Bogdanovic is a much more important player in Europe, but the principle is the same


Glad to see it. Hopefully, this ends the idea of stashing first-rounders.


That rule change should have made the Euro draft and stash a thing of the past. Pretty sure that's why they came up with the whole two-way contract thing, so teams can hopefully stash them within their own systems.

[rastaspur]

x100 That young man could fuck up his whole future, with one freak accident. It's his life, but that makes me cringe.

Simms beats to a different drum. #bitchesandblunts

[GSH]

Simms beats to a different drum. #bitchesandblunts


LOL. Yeah, but he can afford to beat that drum in style after he gets this contract. I would just hate to see him lost it after coming this close.

[TimDunkem]

LOL. Yeah, but he can afford to beat that drum in style after he gets this contract. I would just hate to see him lost it after coming this close.
Well, that's what I believe he was thinking in that second video. He threw a floater instead of throwing it down. :lol

[SAGirl]

880233836755300352

880235051266461696
Thanks for sharing. :tu

Kyle is a people person. I have no doubt he's got a future in the league if he doesn't remain a Spur. May even flourish elsewhere when given actual playing time.

It was him who got JSimms to play in NYC where he has been playing every summer since he was a youngster.

Thanks for sharing that. lol

880247119088541697
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Looks fun. Also, looks to me he's playing closer to the basket.

[SAGirl]

880242544583491588

[SAGirl]

Bogdanovic is signing with the Kings for a reported 3/36

Seeing another Serb wait out the 3 years then get a huge deal far above the rookie scale might be something Milutinov factors in when he decides on his next season. Bogdanovic is a much more important player in Europe, but the principle is the same

What does that say for JSimms deal...?
Can you deduce anything?
Like you I hope Milutinov is joining... specially with a larger roster = more spots... I don't see why not.
I have a question about that: is next season the last one he's bound to the rookie scale? I am not clear on that.

[rastaspur]

Well, that's what I believe he was thinking in that second video. He threw a floater instead of throwing it down. :lol

Yep.

I would say slo-mo is taking it easy but he only has like 2 gears so it is hard to tell.

I turn 40 in September and my first step is still exponentially faster than kyles.

[TheGreatYacht]

Jesus Christ this guy blows

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880242544583491588

[SAGirl]

Yep.

I would say slo-mo is taking it easy but he only has like 2 gears so it is hard to tell.

I turn 40 in September and my first step is still exponentially faster than kyles.

:lol

If LMA had handles like this, he could get to the basket when guarded by small guards instead of getting stripped tbh lol
880237423887663105

There are a lot more snippets from the game online. Looks like a fun game... /sigh summer with all these dramas (LMA diva dramas) have gotten me away from how much fun it is to just watch the guys play.

[rastaspur]

:lol

If LMA had handles like this, he could get to the basket when guarded by small guards instead of getting stripped tbh lol
880237423887663105

There are a lot more snippets from the game online. Looks like a fun game... /sigh summer with all these dramas (LMA diva dramas) have gotten me away from how much fun it is to just watch the guys play.

Is that the old and-1 announcer/hype guy? Sure sounds like it.

I never heard an "oh baby!!!!" So I can't be certain of it.

[objective]

What does that say for JSimms deal...?
Can you deduce anything?
Like you I hope Milutinov is joining... specially with a larger roster = more spots... I don't see why not.
I have a question about that: is next season the last one he's bound to the rookie scale? I am not clear on that.

Doesn't relate to Simmons.

17-18 will be the last season Milutinov is subject to the first round scale only.

[SAGirl]

Doesn't relate to Simmons.

17-18 will be the last season Milutinov is subject to the first round scale only.

hmm thanks for answering.

[SAGirl]

880211614225616897
http://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-zone/dejounte-murray-pushing-for-manu-ginobili-to-come-back-next-season?utm_content=buffer5bd5a&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[GSH]

I turn 40 in September and my first step is still exponentially faster than kyles.


Oh, man, I'm biting my tongue right now. :lol

Time warp under certain, you know... circumstances? Just saying.

[Chinook]

Murray trying hard to be the team's leader. Love the kid's attitude. Makes him a lot more untouchable than his talent and upside warrant. Seems like he wants to be a Spurs more than anyone else on the team.

[Snaq O'Meal]

880211614225616897
http://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-zone/dejounte-murray-pushing-for-manu-ginobili-to-come-back-next-season?utm_content=buffer5bd5a&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Parker fans will never forgive Murray for this. :lol

[rastaspur]

I am old but still pretty fast. I truly believe it. I'm not pulling a lavar ball. Dude is slow.

I'm not some fat old dude. Still within 10 pounds of my high school weight.

It won't hurt my feelings if no one believes me. But I did pick a player with an extremely low bar speed wise. I'm not about to call out murray, westbrook, etc.

[objective]

Parker fans will never forgive Murray for this. :lol

:lol

They still think Parker's coming back better than ever

[GSH]

I am old but still pretty fast. I truly believe it. I'm not pulling a lavar ball. Dude is slow.

I'm not some fat old dude. Still within 10 pounds of my high school weight.

It won't hurt my feelings if no one believes me. But I did pick a player with an extremely low bar speed wise. I'm not about to call out murray, westbrook, etc.


Man, I don't doubt you. It was just low-hanging fruit. And you did pick Fathead for your comparison. :lol

[rastaspur]

Man, I don't doubt you. It was just low-hanging fruit. And you did pick Fathead for your comparison. :lol

Very true. I got kyle but that 61 year old in Vegas might take me. Need to put that out there for purposes of humility.

Edited to use the name kyle. A promise is a promise.

[YGWHI]

Well, it's nice to see Kyle and Simms working together in the offseason...If Spurs don't get the talent, they need to increase chemistry to become more solid as a team

[SAGirl]

Very true. I got kyle but that 61 year old in Vegas might take me. Need to put that out there for purposes of humility.

Edited to use the name kyle. A promise is a promise.

:bobo appreciated.

[SAGirl]

Murray trying hard to be the team's leader. Love the kid's attitude. Makes him a lot more untouchable than his talent and upside warrant. Seems like he wants to be a Spurs more than anyone else on the team.

I think some guys have too much uncertainty over their heads right now bc they are FA (JSimms, Dedmon, Mills, Lee), then others have been in trade rumors so their future is also uncertain (Danny).

Only one who is a diva who clearly doesn't want to be a Spur is Lamarcus. He's definitely not Spurs material and is going to be a cancer moving on forward.

But about Murray: he's a breath of fresh air with all these stupid dramas from divaMarcus.

[rastaspur]

Love murray's enthusiasm. It's genuine too.

The kid's pride is impressive too. You can't teach that.

Pride+love for the game+hardwork= recipe for greatnesz.

I expect big things from this kid.

I'm calling it now - he will be an all star by his fifth year in the league.

[eDizzle20]

I think the Spurs primary target once free agency starts will be Paul Millsap. He does everything well and played under coach Bud for the Spurs of the east. Despite his 32 years of age his injury track record has been great thus far in his career.

[SPURt]

Wouldn't be a very good one either. To make it in this league as a backup or part of a rotation, you need to have at least one above-average "carrying tool" that you can bring to the table every night. Ben McLemore's 38% 3-point shooting last season isn't nearly high enough to offset the fact that he brings nothing else to the table offensively, and is an underachieving defender (and player overall) with an indifferent attitude. Below-average players on bad teams are not what perennial contenders are looking to import to their roster.
I agree with you but I wonder what playing for Pop would do to someone with his potential

[raybies]

Six to eight teams are expected to pursue Hawks forward Paul Millsap (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millspa01.html?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-), tweets (https://twitter.com/CVivlamoreAJC/status/880105646670184448)Chris Vivlamore of The Atlanta Journal Constitution. The Nuggets, Spurs and Rockets are teams that have expressed interest in Millsap, although Houston’s plans may be altered by the package it gave the Clippers today in exchange for Chris Paul (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paulch01.html?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-). New Hawks GM Travis Schlenk has said the Hawks don’t expect (https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/06/hawks-unlikely-to-offer-paul-millsap-full-max.html) to make a full max offer to Millsap.

[raybies]

Hope this is true. Would love to see the Spurs with interest in Millsap. Wonder what Plan B is now that Paul is off the table

[objective]

So, with slug Aldridge still on the roster, what would the cap room look like?

If Milutinov doesn't come, and crippled retiree Parker isn't stretched and dumped ...

Aldridge
Kawhi
Green
Parker
Bertans
Murray
Anderson
D. White
Forbes
Simmons Qualifying Offer
Duncan stretch
LJC waive
Roster charge

Gets to about 78.7 ...

Leaves about 20 million but they still probably owe lazy Gasol, that probably eats 8-10, and what's left isn't enough to sign Hill or Jrue probably.

Teague and Rose

Don't want either.

And room left for Manu or Hanga, minimum maybe for Manu, etc

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I think the Spurs primary target once free agency starts will be Paul Millsap. He does everything well and played under coach Bud for the Spurs of the east. Despite his 32 years of age his injury track record has been great thus far in his career.

This. With our draft moves, have plenty of guards. Need more bigs that can play. Great point too on him playing under Coach Bud. Pop will have the inside knowledge on him as far as signing him and how he likes to be coached. Millsap is a lunch pale kind of guy too, he's no primadonna / spotlight hog.

[Snaq O'Meal]

Love murray's enthusiasm. It's genuine too.

The kid's pride is impressive too. You can't teach that.

Pride+love for the game+hardwork= recipe for greatnesz.

I expect big things from this kid.

I'm calling it now - he will be an all star by his fifth year in the league.

Yup. Love his attitude. This kid will be the glue guy in the future.

I hope he can also grow into a leadership role. He'll need it as the team's future starting point guard.

[NASpurs]

Six to eight teams are expected to pursue Hawks forward Paul Millsap (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millspa01.html?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-), tweets (https://twitter.com/CVivlamoreAJC/status/880105646670184448)Chris Vivlamore of The Atlanta Journal Constitution. The Nuggets, Spurs and Rockets are teams that have expressed interest in Millsap, although Houston’s plans may be altered by the package it gave the Clippers today in exchange for Chris Paul (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paulch01.html?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-). New Hawks GM Travis Schlenk has said the Hawks don’t expect (https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/06/hawks-unlikely-to-offer-paul-millsap-full-max.html) to make a full max offer to Millsap.



Here comes the Paul Milsap mega thread that'll ultimately be all a fart in the wind, per par.

[MaNu4Tres]

Glad to see more people recognizing how serious Murray will be moving forward. Kid is legit and has star potential -- been saying it for 8 months now.

Get Millsap to committ.

Trade LA to PHX for Chriss..use that money for Millsap.

Trade Green, Kyle Anderson, Derrick White for PG13

Murray/ Forbes / vet PG/ TP
PG13/Simmons/ Hanga
Kawhi/Hanga/ Blossomgame
Millsap/Bertans
Chriss/ Pau/Splitter

[raybies]

Here comes the Paul Milsap mega thread that'll ultimately be all a fart in the wind, per par.
Im rooting for Millsap to the Spurs but I took this report with a grain of salt... Same issues as CP3, getting old and gonna want length... But i wasn't about to make a thread. someone else will surely.

[eDizzle20]

Media...

"There's no way the Spurs have the cap space to sign CP3, but Houston can easily afford CP3 and Paul George on max contracts and stay under the cap."

[bklynspursfan]

Glad to see more people recognizing how serious Murray will be moving forward. Kid is legit and has star potential -- been saying it for 8 months now.

Get Millsap to committ.

Trade LA to PHX for Chriss..use that money for Millsap.

Trade Green, Kyle Anderson, Derrick White for PG13

Murray/ Forbes / vet PG/ TP
PG13/Simmons/ Hanga
Kawhi/Hanga/ Blossomgame
Millsap/Bertans
Chriss/ Pau/Splitter

Those would be great moves, if they happened.

Sucks to lose Green, but sacrifices would have to be made, and he honestly hasn't helped himself with his icy hot act.

[rastaspur]

This. With our draft moves, have plenty of guards. Need more bigs that can play. Great point too on him playing under Coach Bud. Pop will have the inside knowledge on him as far as signing him and how he likes to be coached. Millsap is a lunch pale kind of guy too, he's no primadonna / spotlight hog.

Is he worth a near max contract though? If the price is right I would love millsap.

Would Atlanta pull the trigger on a sign and trade for a one year rental of lma? Doubtful but if the millsap price is right then it is something that should be considered. If they strike out on big men in free agency they might take him as opposed to getting nothing in return.

[DPG21920]

When are we going to get a player that tells their team they only want to go to SA and force their way here :lol

[DPG21920]

Also, while I wouldn't be pissed or anything, I'm not on the Millsap bandwagon. He's basically a worse version of LMA at everything except passing.

[rastaspur]

When are we going to get a player that tells their team they only want to go to SA and force their way here :lol

When one of pop's relatives makes the nba. Or alternatively, when one of r.c.'s african exchange students make the nba.

[Spurs9]

Glad to see more people recognizing how serious Murray will be moving forward. Kid is legit and has star potential -- been saying it for 8 months now.

Get Millsap to committ.

Trade LA to PHX for Chriss..use that money for Millsap.

Trade Green, Kyle Anderson, Derrick White for PG13

Murray/ Forbes / vet PG/ TP
PG13/Simmons/ Hanga
Kawhi/Hanga/ Blossomgame
Millsap/Bertans
Chriss/ Pau/Splitter
Yeah, they better not touch Murray in any trade scenerio tbh

[raybies]

This is where I'm at right now with what I'd like to see

Murray/White/Parker
Leonard/Green/Forbes
Iguodala/Simmons/Blossomgame
Millsap/Anderson/Bertans
Gasol/Milutinov/????

You keep Green. Use cap to sign Andre. 15-18 mill. S&T Aldridge for Millsap, Aldridge going to another team and Atlanta getting a pick from us or other team. Pau Gasol on Mid Level deal. Still have the room exception or bi annual for Hanga or a big and then what's left get another big.

Love the potential of this lineup though. So many guards to throw on others for defense. Small ball lineup would be great and you would have so many options. I get the Iggy age arguments but let's face he's probably gonna want to win and get more money and you want him off GS. Here he starts and can legitimately have a chance at GS to give them a good series. I'm looking at 3 year deals for both.

You could close with Simmons/Green/Leonard/Iggy/Millsap. That lineup would be insane on D and not too shabby on offense.

I've talked myself out of the Hill scenarios cause if you believe Murray is the guard of the future then he needs his space. You have higher upside in Murray and you don't have conflicting rotations.

[raybies]

Also, while I wouldn't be pissed or anything, I'm not on the Millsap bandwagon. He's basically a worse version of LMA at everything except passing.
You realize that the passing is probably the difference between the beautiful game and predictable possessions right? And Millsap performs in the playoffs, not to mention is a character guy that will gladly accept his role.

He is not a worse Aldridge by any means. He has heart, plays hard, and has overachieved after being overlooked so much.

If Aldridge could pass, the Spurs offense would flow so much more smoothly... wow

[rastaspur]

Also, while I wouldn't be pissed or anything, I'm not on the Millsap bandwagon. He's basically a worse version of LMA at everything except passing.

Apparently he is wanting 30 mil a year. At his age, the spurs should take a pass on him. Not worth anything near that price tag.

These contracts are rising faster than interest rates in the seventies.

It's like the nba is gizmo and some dumb bastard fed it after midnight. It's escalating out if control.

[raybies]

Bobby Marks estimated his value would be a little more than what he made this year. 22 mill to 25 sounds about right.

[SAGirl]

Media...

"There's no way the Spurs have the cap space to sign CP3, but Houston can easily afford CP3 and Paul George on max contracts and stay under the cap."

I think Spurs reluctance to part with their core/HoF players is what drives that, though it was certainly taken too far.

[SAGirl]

When are we going to get a player that tells their team they only want to go to SA and force their way here :lol

:lol it doesn't exist.

[SAGirl]

Also, while I wouldn't be pissed or anything, I'm not on the Millsap bandwagon. He's basically a worse version of LMA at everything except passing.

I am not high on him either.

But it is slim pickins. Frankly, I prefer Blake personally, but I don't expect him either. Plus him punching a staff member? I don't know.

[DPG21920]

I am not high on him either.

But it is slim pickins. Frankly, I prefer Blake personally, but I don't expect him either. Plus him punching a staff member? I don't know.

Blake seems like a good enough dude that is self aware. I'm sure injuries plus playing with CP3 took it's toll

[Dverde]

I'd rather have Faried over Millsap at the max

[SAGirl]

This is where I'm at right now with what I'd like to see

Murray/White/Parker
Leonard/Green/Forbes
Iguodala/Simmons/Blossomgame
Millsap/Anderson/Bertans
Gasol/Milutinov/????

You keep Green. Use cap to sign Andre. 15-18 mill. S&T Aldridge for Millsap, Aldridge going to another team and Atlanta getting a pick from us or other team. Pau Gasol on Mid Level deal. Still have the room exception or bi annual for Hanga or a big and then what's left get another big.

Love the potential of this lineup though. So many guards to throw on others for defense. Small ball lineup would be great and you would have so many options. I get the Iggy age arguments but let's face he's probably gonna want to win and get more money and you want him off GS. Here he starts and can legitimately have a chance at GS to give them a good series. I'm looking at 3 year deals for both.

You could close with Simmons/Green/Leonard/Iggy/Millsap. That lineup would be insane on D and not too shabby on offense.

I've talked myself out of the Hill scenarios cause if you believe Murray is the guard of the future then he needs his space. You have higher upside in Murray and you don't have conflicting rotations.
I don't like Gasol starting...I suppose good perimeter defenders can attempt to cover for him, but I see Gasol as really a bench big right now.

[objective]

Millsap for more than 3 years would be a disaster. Even a three year deal likely includes a crap third year.

[SAGirl]

Apparently he is wanting 30 mil a year. At his age, the spurs should take a pass on him. Not worth anything near that price tag.

These contracts are rising faster than interest rates in the seventies.

It's like the nba is gizmo and some dumb bastard fed it after midnight. It's escalating out if control.

Already the cap is lower than expected this season and I think Chinook has made a point somewhere about how it may stall completely or even contract and then teams are suffocated by all these contracts. IMO, it's not wise to give such luxurious contracts to guys over 32/33 years old already. I mean I was concerned JSimms was going to be overpaid, and at least he will be 28 going into next season. If he was 32/33? No way.

Anyways, I am purely a spectator at this point. I really can't get an angle on Spurs moves.
they may even stand pat and rely on younger player development.. which I have been fine with so long as Pop does play those players and doesn't keep going to the old crew while keeping those guys benched.

[sasaint]

Millsap for more than 3 years would be a disaster. Even a three year deal likely includes a crap third year.

Um, close call. Millsap will age better than LMA.

[TimDunkem]

God ST doesn't want anybody..

[raybies]

I don't like Gasol starting...I suppose good perimeter defenders can attempt to cover for him, but I see Gasol as really a bench big right now.

I do... he doesn't have to close and I know your concerned about defense but with all the defenders around him it should be a top defense in the league, second to none. But what I really have him there is for his spacing, passing and experience. The ball should really move with that lineup.

[Atl Spur]

If I had to put money on it, I think we will definitely make some substantial moves this off season. Kawhi was really over worked this year and pop & co. know they must do something asap or run the risk of him looking elsewhere for relief. It will be corrected......

[sasaint]

Already the cap is lower than expected this season and I think Chinook has made a point somewhere about how it may stall completely or even contract and then teams are suffocated by all these contracts. IMO, it's not wise to give such luxurious contracts to guys over 32/33 years old already. I mean I was concerned JSimms was going to be overpaid, and at least he will be 28 going into next season. If he was 32/33? No way.

Anyways, I am purely a spectator at this point. I really can't get an angle on Spurs moves.
they may even stand pat and rely on younger player development.. which I have been fine with so long as Pop does play those players and doesn't keep going to the old crew while keeping those guys benched.

Also, as somebody posted, PATFO is, no doubt, looking to the future Kawhi supermax that they will be paying.

[SAGirl]

If I had to put money on it, I think we will definitely make some substantial moves this off season. Kawhi was really over worked this year and pop & co. know they must do something asap or run the risk of him looking elsewhere for relief. It will be corrected......

I hope you are right. I know we have disagreed often... but I really hope they make some improvement.

I think they need to move LMA, it starts from there and we just can't know what Spurs are going to get in exchange for him. It's even possible something has already been worked out (Gosh, I probably am talking myself into that one ... )

[TheGreatYacht]

#BuiltNotBought

Kawhi Leonard
Bryn Forbes
Kyle Anderson
Derrick White
Danny Green
Adam Hanga
Jaron Blossomgame
Dejounte Murray
Davis Bertans
Tony Parker
Look at this roster :lol

Let's be honest. Spurs have no shot next year. Might as well tank for a season, maintain cap flexibility, and hand Murray the keys while Kawhi "recovers" from a training camp season ending injury

http://www.nba-live.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/spurs_1997_lottery.png
https://espntheundefeated.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/gettyimages-4794657441.jpg?w=1024

[tbdog]

Um, close call. Millsap will age better than LMA.

I don't see that at all. Millsap relies on speed. He is undersized for a pf. Has great foot speed for defense and hops. He will struggle at center.

[tbdog]

Blake seems like a good enough dude that is self aware. I'm sure injuries plus playing with CP3 took it's toll

He is a young earth creationists. Dumb as dog biscuits.

[SAGirl]

I do... he doesn't have to close and I know your concerned about defense but with all the defenders around him it should be a top defense in the league, second to none. But what I really have him there is for his spacing, passing and experience. The ball should really move with that lineup.

nah.. that is how the Spurs were giving up 75 points first halves of games, 40 point quarters etc. those were the slow defensive starts.
I do not want Pau starting. he's fine off the bench though.

[MaNu4Tres]

LA to PHX for space + Chriss.

Use space to absorb Vonleh, Davis, Harkless from POR. Zach Collins/ Swanigan were drafted -- making Vonleh/ Davis expendable. This also relieves POR cap situation.

Looks like everyone hates the FA available outside of Blake/ Hayward, so lets think outside the box. Less risk, high reward moves centered around youth and versatility. Davis has 1 yr left, SA can take over Vonlehs rights, Harkless has decent value, Chriss is on rookie contract.

[marinoman]

So much deadweight on this roster and I don't wanna see another year of kawhis prime wasted. He may be the best player in the league next year

[LakerHater]

The Nuggets, Spurs and Rockets have expressed interest in Paul Millsap.(via @HoopsRumors (https://twitter.com/HoopsRumors))

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDdS1OqU0AIGftG.jpg

[objective]

If Millsap is willing to take 3/65 to 3/75, I think that's worth making the move to get going

[100%duncan]

The Nuggets, Spurs and Rockets have expressed interest in Paul Millsap.(via @HoopsRumors (https://twitter.com/HoopsRumors))

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDdS1OqU0AIGftG.jpg





What the fuck is up with his nose? tbh

[cutewizard]

:claw

[Mal]

If Millsap is willing to take 3/65 to 3/75, I think that's worth making the move to get going

I`d do it, if LMA is moved.

[szkorhetz]

I`d do it, if LMA is moved.
LMA AND Millsap would be a working combo, TBH. But finances are a different matter.

[tholdren]

I don't see that at all. Millsap relies on speed. He is undersized for a pf. Has great foot speed for defense and hops. He will struggle at center.

Drives me nuts. There are no undersized bigs as the most dominant big is an undersized big.

[MaNu4Tres]

Spurs get: Paul George + Myles Turner

Sixers get : Danny Green

Pacers get: LaMarcus Aldridge + Derrick White +18' Spurs 1st + Okafor + Justin Anderson + Sixers 18' 2nd round pick (from Brooklyn)

Or

Spurs get: Paul George + Myles Turner

Sixers get : Danny Green

IND gets: Bender + White + Okafor+ Justin Anderson + SA 1st in 18' + PHX 1st in 18' ( via MIA top 7 protected)

PHX gets : LaMarcus Aldridge

[ceperez]

Drives me nuts. There are no undersized bigs as the most dominant big is an undersized big.

Isn't Millsap bigger than Draymond Green?

[Snaq O'Meal]

Isn't Millsap bigger than Draymond Green?

They're about the same size.

The difference lies in Donkey Grin being allowed to play 90s-style defence in today's NBE.

[Bellboy]

Spurs get: Paul George + Myles Turner

Sixers get : Danny Green + Kevin Seraphin

Pacers get: LaMarcus Aldridge + Derrick White +18' Spurs 1st + Okafor + Justin Anderson + Sixers 18' 2nd round pick (from Brooklyn)

If this happens, to paraphrase the former ABC college football announcer Keith Jackson:

" Spurs Rumblin', Stumlin', Bumlin' to stave off potential off season crash and burn. Whoa Nelly "

[cutewizard]

Nene!

[r0drig0lac]

Spurs get: Paul George + Myles Turner

Sixers get : Danny Green

Pacers get: LaMarcus Aldridge + Derrick White +18' Spurs 1st + Okafor + Justin Anderson + Sixers 18' 2nd round pick (from Brooklyn)

Or

Spurs get: Paul George + Myles Turner

Sixers get : Danny Green

IND gets: Bender + White + Okafor+ Justin Anderson + SA 1st in 18' + PHX 1st in 18' ( via MIA top 7 protected)

PHX gets : LaMarcus Aldridge
impossible

[Chinook]

If LMA can get Bender and the Miami pick, I take that and call it a day. I'd also be inclined to move Green for a package around the Brooklyn second and overseas rights rather than Oak and Anderson.

[cutewizard]

My goodness, check out this article guys:

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/6/28/15888580/houston-rockets-trade-daryl-morey-chris-paul-salary-cap

Why the Rockets traded for every fringe NBA player known to man9 (https://www.sbnation.com/2017/6/28/15888580/houston-rockets-trade-daryl-morey-chris-paul-salary-cap#comments)


This was an incredibly creative way to make the Chris Paul trade work under NBA rules.

The Houston Rockets (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/teams/houston-rockets) spent Wednesday doing two very different things. One of those things was a blockbuster deal to bring Chris Paul (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21662/chris-paul) to town. The other was a mad rush to acquire every fringe roster player under the sun in exchange for cash considerations.


In the span of a few hours, the Rockets took on DeAndre Liggins from the Mavericks (https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/status/880104288340426754), Ryan Kelly from the Hawks (http://www.nba.com/hawks/news/hawks-trade-ryan-kelly-houston-exchange-cash-considerations?cid=hawks_17releases_s_062817_t_kel lyrockets), Tim Quarterman from the Blazers (http://www.nba.com/blazers/news/trail-blazers-trade-tim-quarterman-houston-cash-considerations), Darrun Hilliard from the Pistons (https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/880136670061895680), and Shawn Long from the 76ers (https://twitter.com/WojVerticalNBA/status/880151111377838080). More moves like that could be on the way, as other teams rush to get in on what ESPN’s Brian Windhorst called (https://twitter.com/WindhorstESPN/status/880117818410381312) a “salary-cap manipulation masterpiece” by the Rockets.
Ever heard of those guys? Not many folks have. To get them, all the Rockets needed to send out was sweet, sweet cash:

So what are the Rockets up to, anyway? Why are they suddenly so interested in collecting as many fringe NBA players as possible?



It’s related to Chris Paul.
The Rockets used some combination of these players to complete the Paul tradeNBA rules state that teams that are over the cap must craft trades where the salaries are within 120 percent of each other. The Rockets operated as an over-the-cap team to acquire Paul (https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/6/28/15886854/chris-paul-houston-rockets-trade-no-cap-space-nba-free-agency)because they were never going to get far enough under the cap this summer to sign him outright in free agency.


But the basic structure of the Paul deal — Patrick Beverley (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/71859/patrick-beverley), Lou Williams (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21577/lou-williams), Sam Dekker (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/257492/sam-dekker), Montrezl Harrell (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/257493/montrezl-harrell), and a 2018 first-round pick — did not offer enough salary to meet the 125 percent threshold. Paul was opting in to a $24.2 million contract next year, plus he was entitled to a 15 percent trade kicker that bumped his salary up further. (He ultimately elected to waive most of it to help the Rockets out (https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/880150923401723906)). Beverley, Williams, and Dekker only add up to $15.3 million in salary, which is well below the 120 percent threshold.
Houston needed to add more outgoing money to complete the deal. They could do this by attaching another big salary, but they actually want to keep those players around. So, the Rockets adopted a different approach: Aggregate as many tiny salaries as possible, preferably ones that are non-guaranteed so the Clippers (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/teams/los-angeles-clippers) could simply waive the player upon arrival with no cap hit.



Which NBA players have tiny, non-guaranteed salaries? Fringe NBA players!The minimum cap figure for an NBA player is projected to be about $543,000, depending on where the final salary projection falls. The Rockets already had two such players on their roster in Isaiah Taylor (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/283029/isaiah-taylor) and Kyle Wiltjer. Both players have deals that are completely unguaranteed. Chinanu Onuaku (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/276624/chinanu-onuaku) also has a minimum salary, though it is guaranteed.
But even combining those three players doesn’t get the Rockets to the 120 percent threshold once you account for Paul’s trade kicker. Hence, the trade for Kelly. Hence, the trade for Quarterman. Hence, the trade for Liggins. Hence, the trade for Hillard. Hence the trade for Long. All but Liggins have non-guaranteed minimum salaries, so the Clippers can take them in during the trade, then immediately waive them with no penalty.
Ultimately, the Rockets included Wiltjer, Hillard, and Liggins in this trade. The other newcomers are still on the Rockets’ roster. We’ll explain why in a minute.


What did those teams get in return? Sweet, sweet cash (plus, in the 76ers’ case, a second-round pick that’s probably heavily protected). NBA rules allow teams to include up to $3.5 million cash each year to throw in trades. It’s unclear how much money is changing hands in each individual deal, but it’s likely enough to cover the salaries the Hawks, Pistons, Blazers, 76ers, and Mavericks were going to pay Kelly, Hillard, Quarterman, Long, and Liggins anyway.
A few-hundred-thousand-dollar cap hit here, a few-hundred-thousand-dollar cap hit there, and suddenly the Rockets had enough money to match salary in a trade for Paul, especially since Paul agreed to waive most of his 15 percent trade kicker.
In the end, Houston didn’t need all of these players to make this deal happen. So, what of the minimum-salaried players left over? What of Kelly, Quarterman, and Long?
One option is for the Rockets to keep them. Another, though, is to use them later on to help grease the wheels of another big trade. Like, say, Paul George (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/111927/paul-george) or Carmelo Anthony (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21501/carmelo-anthony)?

-----------------------------------

:bang

[look_at_g_shred]

What does Millsap do that LMA doesn't?

[MaNu4Tres]

What does Millsap do that LMA doesn't?

More versatile offensive player and doesn't need vagisil.

[cjw]

What does Millsap do that LMA doesn't?

He shoots 30% from three and doesn't realize he should probably stop shooting threes. LMA doesn't realize he needs to adds three point shot.

[mo7888]

More versatile offensive player and doesn't need vagisil.

:lol

[coachmac87]

What does Millsap do that LMA doesn't?

Pass
Dribble-Drive
Shoots 3's
Can guard multiple positions
Has a dick instead of a pussy

[look_at_g_shred]

Pass
Dribble-Drive
Shoots 3's
Can guard multiple positions
Has a dick instead of a pussy
I'm sold. Thanks TSpence.

[Chinook]

What does Millsap do that LMA doesn't?

Millsap learned how to be an SF back in Utah, so he has better perimeter skills on both ends. He also is better able to play in the post, because the refs don't consider him a big. I'd take LMA 4/5 frame over Millsap's 3/4 frame, but there are pluses and minuses to each.

[SPURt]

Pass
Dribble-Drive
Shoots 3's
Can guard multiple positions
Has a dick instead of a pussy
I need visual proof. Pic or isn't true.

[TheDoctor]

Look at this roster :lol

Let's be honest. Spurs have no shot next year. Might as well tank for a season, maintain cap flexibility, and hand Murray the keys while Kawhi "recovers" from a training camp season ending injury

http://www.nba-live.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/spurs_1997_lottery.png
https://espntheundefeated.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/gettyimages-4794657441.jpg?w=1024

:lol This has more track and credibility than most fanciful scenarios/trades that have been presented in here tbh

[Jdspur20]

More versatile offensive player and doesn't need vagisil.

Quote of this the week lol

[Jdspur20]

If we find a a trade partner for LMA, would a signing of Milsap and Hill be possible cap wise?

[Chinook]

If we find a a trade partner for LMA, would a signing of Milsap and Hill be possible cap wise?

Likely, yes. But it would depend on their salaries.

[Mal]

What does Millsap do that LMA doesn't?

Hopefully he is hungry to contend. Better defensive matchup against GSW. He can shoot three and go off dribble.

[sasaint]

Look at this roster :lol

Let's be honest. Spurs have no shot next year. Might as well tank for a season, maintain cap flexibility, and hand Murray the keys while Kawhi "recovers" from a training camp season ending injury

http://www.nba-live.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/spurs_1997_lottery.png
https://espntheundefeated.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/gettyimages-4794657441.jpg?w=1024

Give the keys to Murray and see where he goes.

[tbdog]

He is a young earth creationists. Dumb as dog biscuits.


Drives me nuts. There are no undersized bigs as the most dominant big is an undersized big.

Can you name some dominate undersized bigs who are over 32 y/o.

[sasaint]

My goodness, check out this article guys:

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/6/28/15888580/houston-rockets-trade-daryl-morey-chris-paul-salary-cap

Why the Rockets traded for every fringe NBA player known to man9 (https://www.sbnation.com/2017/6/28/15888580/houston-rockets-trade-daryl-morey-chris-paul-salary-cap#comments)


This was an incredibly creative way to make the Chris Paul trade work under NBA rules.

The Houston Rockets (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/teams/houston-rockets) spent Wednesday doing two very different things. One of those things was a blockbuster deal to bring Chris Paul (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21662/chris-paul) to town. The other was a mad rush to acquire every fringe roster player under the sun in exchange for cash considerations.


In the span of a few hours, the Rockets took on DeAndre Liggins from the Mavericks (https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/status/880104288340426754), Ryan Kelly from the Hawks (http://www.nba.com/hawks/news/hawks-trade-ryan-kelly-houston-exchange-cash-considerations?cid=hawks_17releases_s_062817_t_kel lyrockets), Tim Quarterman from the Blazers (http://www.nba.com/blazers/news/trail-blazers-trade-tim-quarterman-houston-cash-considerations), Darrun Hilliard from the Pistons (https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/880136670061895680), and Shawn Long from the 76ers (https://twitter.com/WojVerticalNBA/status/880151111377838080). More moves like that could be on the way, as other teams rush to get in on what ESPN’s Brian Windhorst called (https://twitter.com/WindhorstESPN/status/880117818410381312) a “salary-cap manipulation masterpiece” by the Rockets.
Ever heard of those guys? Not many folks have. To get them, all the Rockets needed to send out was sweet, sweet cash:

So what are the Rockets up to, anyway? Why are they suddenly so interested in collecting as many fringe NBA players as possible?



It’s related to Chris Paul.
The Rockets used some combination of these players to complete the Paul tradeNBA rules state that teams that are over the cap must craft trades where the salaries are within 120 percent of each other. The Rockets operated as an over-the-cap team to acquire Paul (https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/6/28/15886854/chris-paul-houston-rockets-trade-no-cap-space-nba-free-agency)because they were never going to get far enough under the cap this summer to sign him outright in free agency.


But the basic structure of the Paul deal — Patrick Beverley (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/71859/patrick-beverley), Lou Williams (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21577/lou-williams), Sam Dekker (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/257492/sam-dekker), Montrezl Harrell (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/257493/montrezl-harrell), and a 2018 first-round pick — did not offer enough salary to meet the 125 percent threshold. Paul was opting in to a $24.2 million contract next year, plus he was entitled to a 15 percent trade kicker that bumped his salary up further. (He ultimately elected to waive most of it to help the Rockets out (https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/880150923401723906)). Beverley, Williams, and Dekker only add up to $15.3 million in salary, which is well below the 120 percent threshold.
Houston needed to add more outgoing money to complete the deal. They could do this by attaching another big salary, but they actually want to keep those players around. So, the Rockets adopted a different approach: Aggregate as many tiny salaries as possible, preferably ones that are non-guaranteed so the Clippers (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/teams/los-angeles-clippers) could simply waive the player upon arrival with no cap hit.



Which NBA players have tiny, non-guaranteed salaries? Fringe NBA players!The minimum cap figure for an NBA player is projected to be about $543,000, depending on where the final salary projection falls. The Rockets already had two such players on their roster in Isaiah Taylor (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/283029/isaiah-taylor) and Kyle Wiltjer. Both players have deals that are completely unguaranteed. Chinanu Onuaku (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/276624/chinanu-onuaku) also has a minimum salary, though it is guaranteed.
But even combining those three players doesn’t get the Rockets to the 120 percent threshold once you account for Paul’s trade kicker. Hence, the trade for Kelly. Hence, the trade for Quarterman. Hence, the trade for Liggins. Hence, the trade for Hillard. Hence the trade for Long. All but Liggins have non-guaranteed minimum salaries, so the Clippers can take them in during the trade, then immediately waive them with no penalty.
Ultimately, the Rockets included Wiltjer, Hillard, and Liggins in this trade. The other newcomers are still on the Rockets’ roster. We’ll explain why in a minute.


What did those teams get in return? Sweet, sweet cash (plus, in the 76ers’ case, a second-round pick that’s probably heavily protected). NBA rules allow teams to include up to $3.5 million cash each year to throw in trades. It’s unclear how much money is changing hands in each individual deal, but it’s likely enough to cover the salaries the Hawks, Pistons, Blazers, 76ers, and Mavericks were going to pay Kelly, Hillard, Quarterman, Long, and Liggins anyway.
A few-hundred-thousand-dollar cap hit here, a few-hundred-thousand-dollar cap hit there, and suddenly the Rockets had enough money to match salary in a trade for Paul, especially since Paul agreed to waive most of his 15 percent trade kicker.
In the end, Houston didn’t need all of these players to make this deal happen. So, what of the minimum-salaried players left over? What of Kelly, Quarterman, and Long?
One option is for the Rockets to keep them. Another, though, is to use them later on to help grease the wheels of another big trade. Like, say, Paul George (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/111927/paul-george) or Carmelo Anthony (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21501/carmelo-anthony)?

-----------------------------------

:bang



Great article. Thanks for posting it. :toast I'm pretty sure the Spurs will be equally creative in transforming their roster this summer. :rolleyes

[Chinook]

This is the Spurs cap situation as I see it:



Name
2017-18 Salary


LaMarcus Aldridge
$21,461,010


Kawhi Leonard
$18,868,625


Tony Parker
$15,453,126


Danny Green
$10,000,000


Kyle Anderson
$2,151,704


Tim Duncan (stretched)
$1,881,250


Derrick White
$1,697,225


Jonathan Simmons (QO)
$1,676,735


Dejounte Murray
$1,312,611


Davis Bertans
$1,312,611


Bryn Forbes
$1,312,611


Livio Jean-Charles (waived)
$1,035,200


Roster Charge
$815,615


Roster Charge
$815,615






Total
$79,793,938


Cap Space
$19,206,062







With Pau coming back, it's very possible that the best PG the Spurs can afford is Patty. Their interest in Rose may well be trying to get him on the cheap. My guess is they have $10 Million to offer, maybe $12 Million if Pau is planning on retiring after this season.

That's sad, because I'd rather have a guy like Teague, but not at the expense or Green or LMA.

[tdunk21]

880419815428681728

[DesignatedT]

The Spurs are gunna dump LMA for cap space. Just a matter of time.

[Chinook]

Was thinking of Rudy as an MLE candidate. Not necessarily for SA, but for some team. In his old form, he's not a bad investment for the price at all. He can get his own shot and is big enough to play the four. Could be a sixth-man type player.

No idea why he'll be here for the meetings, though.

[Jdspur20]

Likely, yes. But it would depend on their salaries.

If Spurs could pull it off, that would be a really really solid off season.

[Jdspur20]

Was thinking of Rudy as an MLE candidate. Not necessarily for SA, but for some team. In his old form, he's not a bad investment for the price at all. He can get his own shot and is big enough to play the four. Could be a sixth-man type player.

No idea why he'll be here for the meetings, though.

That is strange that he's in Austin

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

This is the Spurs cap situation as I see it:



Name
2017-18 Salary


LaMarcus Aldridge
$21,461,010


Kawhi Leonard
$18,868,625


Tony Parker
$15,453,126


Danny Green
$10,000,000


Kyle Anderson
$2,151,704


Tim Duncan (stretched)
$1,881,250


Derrick White
$1,697,225


Jonathan Simmons (QO)
$1,676,735


Dejounte Murray
$1,312,611


Davis Bertans
$1,312,611


Bryn Forbes
$1,312,611


Livio Jean-Charles (waived)
$1,035,200


Roster Charge
$815,615


Roster Charge
$815,615






Total
$79,793,938


Cap Space
$19,206,062







With Pau coming back, it's very possible that the best PG the Spurs can afford is Patty. Their interest in Rose may well be trying to get him on the cheap. My guess is they have $10 Million to offer, maybe $12 Million if Pau is planning on retiring after this season.

That's sad, because I'd rather have a guy like Teague, but not at the expense or Green or LMA.

PG isn't a priority for them, unless it's a scoring PG who can play D and will come at a reasonable price. This offseason is going to be about front court help and perimeter scoring/D.

[look_at_g_shred]

Was thinking of Rudy as an MLE candidate. Not necessarily for SA, but for some team. In his old form, he's not a bad investment for the price at all. He can get his own shot and is big enough to play the four. Could be a sixth-man type player.

No idea why he'll be here for the meetings, though.

That is strange that he's in Austin

Everyone has a house/condo in Austin these days.

[Chinook]

PG isn't a priority for them, unless it's a scoring PG who can play D and will come at a reasonable price. This offseason is going to be about front court help and perimeter scoring/D.

Sounds like the priority is PG to me. Of course, if you're assuming LMA is gone, then big becomes a huge need, but a lot of things change if LMA's $21 Million is off the books.

[Atl Spur]

Sounds like the priority is PG to me. Of course, if you're assuming LMA is gone, then big becomes a huge need, but a lot of things change if LMA's $21 Million is off the books.

I agree with Aggie Hoopsfan, Kawhi will handle the ball more and more thus diminishing the importance of the traditional point guard.

[mudyez]

How about Milsap and Hill?

Murray, Hill, Green, Kawhi, Milsap small ball

[Chinook]

To play around with the cap a bit more, let's say they dump LMA for no salary and let Simmons walk. That would give them $42.3 Million in space, provided they were using that space to sign three players.

The least I could see Pau taking is $8.57 Million (first year of a $27M/3 deal). That leaves SA with $33.7 Million to offer the best PF and PG they can get. Ideally, that'd be Millsap and Teague. Teague, Green, Leonard, Millsap and Pau could run the offense the way it used to be run. You get Lee back as the bench C with Bertans, Anderson, White and Murray, and you'll get some pieces for a "beautiful game".

The D, though would be suspect with no big able to really protect the rim. Maybe a healthy Tiago over Lee could help.

[Chinook]

I agree with Aggie Hoopsfan, Kawhi will handle the ball more and more thus diminishing the importance of the traditional point guard.

Kawhi better not handle it even more. His usage certainly wasn't the problem. I agree that a ball-dominant PG would not be good for him or the team. But he needs a robin on the perimeter.

[TheGreatYacht]

Spurs get: Robert Covington, Richaun Holmes
Sixers get: Danny Green

Spurs shed around $8M of cap, and get two potential starters. Sixers fill their biggest need and save themselves from paying Redick 18M/per

[Atl Spur]

Kawhi better not handle it even more. His usage certainly wasn't the problem. I agree that a ball-dominant PG would not be good for him or the team. But he needs a robin on the perimeter.

Never said he didn't need a robin.... I said he will be the initiator/catalyst of the offense more than in the past.

[Joseph Kony]

Isn't Covington a UFA?

[NASpurs]

Not so much about the IT sales, who cares. It's just funny being above the Lakers in team merchandise sales.

880433078396739584

[picnroll]

Damn Spurs should have hedged their bets and bought the pick that got the Clippers Juwan Evans. Between White, Murray and Evans a viable PG would have likely emerged and Evans certainly would have been a better true PG than Mills and Evans would be a whole lot cheaper even with the cost of the pick. Idiots.

[TheGreatYacht]

Isn't Covington a UFA?
Sixers exercised their team option 2 weeks ago

[rastaspur]

Spurs get: Robert Covington, Richaun Holmes
Sixers get: Danny Green

Spurs shed around $8M of cap, and get two potential starters. Sixers fill their biggest need and save themselves from paying Redick 18M/per

If 76ers bite on that it is a no brainer from a spurs perspective if win now mode is the strategy for next season. It's my understanding that they are high on covington, so philly might not be willing to give him up. However, I have seen conflicting reports regarding covington. It might be they don't want to pay him next offeason and want to get something in return for him before he walks for a bigger payday.

So it would really hinge on a cost benefit analysis. Would philly be confident they could sign danny next summer to a cheaper contract than covington?

[sasaint]

Spurs get: Robert Covington, Richaun Holmes
Sixers get: Danny Green

Spurs shed around $8M of cap, and get two potential starters. Sixers fill their biggest need and save themselves from paying Redick 18M/per

I don't think the Sixers would do this trade if we tossed in our 2018 first round pick.

[rjv]

i was under the impression that philly was working on a contract extension for covington.

[Joseph Kony]

Chris Paul had serious interest in signing with the San Antonio Spurs, according to a source.Paul felt the uncertainty with LaMarcus Aldridge's situation made the Spurs a less attractive option. The presence of Tony Parker, who is rehabbing a quad injury, also would have made it awkward for Paul.
Paul instead orchestrated an opt-in and trade to go to the Houston Rockets.
After the Los Angeles Clippers were eliminated in the first round of the playoffs, a source told The Undefeated that a key to his return was playing for a winning team. Paul was open to re-signing with the Clippers, but was concerned they were more likely to regress than progress as a team.
“Chris believes that Houston gives him the best chance to win now,” a source close to Paul said.

[Chinook]

If 76ers bite on that it is a no brainer from a spurs perspective if win now mode is the strategy for next season. It's my understanding that they are high on covington, so philly might not be willing to give him up. However, I have seen conflicting reports regarding covington. It might be they don't want to pay him next offeason and want to get something in return for him before he walks for a bigger payday.

So it would really hinge on a cost benefit analysis. Would philly be confident they could sign danny next summer to a cheaper contract than covington?

Would be hard for me to see Philly doing this, but I am pretty confident that Danny will make less than Covington will make. Size and age are big factors, as well as versatility. No idea how Holmes would fit in, though.

[bic50]

Kind of had a feeling the whole thing with Aldridge played a part in cp3 decision

[NASpurs]

880447159341957121

[r0drig0lac]

I don't think the Sixers would do this trade if we tossed in our 2018 first round pick.

[NASpurs]

Remember when he signed with Cleveland, checked into the game and then a minute later got injured? Hilarious shit.

[Chinook]

Remember when he signed with Cleveland, checked into the game and then a minute later got injured? Hilarious shit.

:lol

Could do worse for a fifth big.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Kind of had a feeling the whole thing with Aldridge played a part in cp3 decision

This decision was made long ago. Him and Harden have been talking about playing together all season.

The Aldridge shade is just Houston / Paul putting crap out there to try and make us look less attractive this offseason. Probably even ties into a trade that's being discussed for someone like George. He wants to make Houston look more attractive than San Antonio.

[GSH]

880447159341957121


Bogut gave the Cavs one more good minute than Joel Anthony gave the Spurs.

[sasaint]

Yep. I said at the time the LMA news broke that CP3 was likely blindsided. I think CP3 and the Spurs had something between what I would characterize as a "tire-kicking" and a "serious" interest in each other. But the LMA brouhaha wiped out CP3's interest.

[picnroll]

Aldridge should have just kept his mouth shut, seen if the Spurs could get CP3 who'd make him look a lot better than his is enhancing his value in the FA market next year. If the Spurs didn't get CP3 then he could ask for a trade.

[TheDoctor]

This decision was made long ago. Him and Harden have been talking about playing together all season.

The Aldridge shade is just Houston / Paul putting crap out there to try and make us look less attractive this offseason. Probably even ties into a trade that's being discussed for someone like George. He wants to make Houston look more attractive than San Antonio.
Makes sense.

[KDKSpurs24]

Yep. I said at the time the LMA news broke that CP3 was likely blindsided. I think CP3 and the Spurs had something between what I would characterize as a "tire-kicking" and a "serious" interest in each other. But the LMA brouhaha wiped out CP3's interest.
No. Lou Williams himself tweeted that the CP3 trade was in the works for almost 2 weeks people just found out when it happened.

[TheDoctor]

No. Lou Williams himself tweeted that the CP3 trade was in the works for almost 2 weeks people just found out when it happened.
Correct.

[NASpurs]

Our future "big" free agent signing

880454813728751616

[DPG21920]

No. Lou Williams himself tweeted that the CP3 trade was in the works for almost 2 weeks people just found out when it happened.

The amount of collusion in the nba is unreal :lol. I get it's hard to prove and even more difficult to stop now that so many players are so friendly, but damn.

[Chinook]

Our future "big" free agent signing

880454813728751616

Used to really like LRMaM, but I didn't think he was good enough to decline the LLE.

[Chinook]

The amount of collusion in the nba is unreal :lol. I get it's hard to prove and even more difficult to stop now that so many players are so friendly, but damn.

Talking about a trade involving a player under contract is not collusion.

[GSH]

The amount of collusion in the nba is unreal :lol. I get it's hard to prove and even more difficult to stop now that so many players are so friendly, but damn.


Silver could stop it, or at least shut it way down... if he wanted to.

[NASpurs]

Used to really like LRMaM, but I didn't think he was good enough to decline the LLE.

Pair him up with this guy and just count the rings.

880452005206032386

[TheDoctor]

Our future "big" free agent signing

880454813728751616
:lol Kawhi gotta be stoked at the possibility...

[Big Empty]

Anyone high on James Johnson from the Heat? He has decent numbers and is a free agent if we need to unload LaMarcus and need a solid role player.

[GSH]

Talking about a trade involving a player under contract is not collusion.


It's not Lou Williams' comment, after the fact. It's the fact that Harden was talking to CP3 about joining him in Houston.

"As part of its collectivebBargaining agreement, the league defines tampering as when a player or team directly or indirectly entices, induces or persuades any player under contract with another team in order to negotiate for their services. The NBA detailed its anti-tampering policy in a memo sent to all 30 teams in 2008."

[Atl Spur]

Yep. I said at the time the LMA news broke that CP3 was likely blindsided. I think CP3 and the Spurs had something between what I would characterize as a "tire-kicking" and a "serious" interest in each other. But the LMA brouhaha wiped out CP3's interest.

I don't buy it! What is the difference from playing with Harden and a depleted roster vs. playing with Kawhi minus LaMarcus? This is all BS and these decisions were made a long time ago.

[DPG21920]

Talking about a trade involving a player under contract is not collusion.

Unless LAC gave permission for Harden to backdoor recruit I have to disagree.

[rjv]

Silver knows he has a problem on his hand as the NBA is steering back to the days of just a few big market teams controlling the league. He tried to dismiss it this week by giving the old reference to the Spurs (who really won because of TD and some nice work in the drafts and some nice FA signings, but not with any super team) and by trying to state that Oakland is a small market. The fact that he ignored San Francisco shows how desperate he was in looking for a positive. He knows that small market teams are always at a huge disadvantage but he can't admit it.

[tbdog]

He is a young earth creationists. Dumb as dog biscuits.


It's not Lou Williams' comment, after the fact. It's the fact that Harden was talking to CP3 about joining him in Houston.

"As part of its collectivebBargaining agreement, the league defines tampering as when a player or team directly or indirectly entices, induces or persuades any player under contract with another team in order to negotiate for their services. The NBA detailed its anti-tampering policy in a memo sent to all 30 teams in 2008."


And they won't do anything about it. Durant was recruited in the playoffs. The league Office did nothing about.

[rjv]

sources reporting that interest in Holiday is tepid at best and that he is likely to remain in NO as a result.

[Joseph Kony]

I don't buy it! What is the difference from playing with Harden and a depleted roster vs. playing with Kawhi minus LaMarcus? This is all BS and these decisions were made a long time ago.

CP3
Harden/Gordon
Ariza
Anderson
Capella/Nene

Doesn't really look that depleted, especially considering Pringles runs a 7-8 player rotation normally. They gave up Beverley and Dekker who were rotational players for Paul, the rest were fillers and nobodies. I wouldn't really say they gutted or depleted their roster tbh

[Ice009]

woj reporting that interest in Holiday is tepid at best and that he is likely to remain in NO as a result.

Wow. Is he saying that no-one has much interest in him?

[GSH]

Unless LAC gave permission for Harden to backdoor recruit I have to disagree.

Exactly.

The Hawks got fined because a staffer mentioned that CP3 and Dwight Howard were going to be free agents, in a letter to potential season ticket buyers. Sacramento's coach got in trouble for saying, "Chris Paul would look good in a Kings' uniform". Players are supposed to be just as tightly restricted. I think the owners are going to have to push him on it.

A year out of the league and loss of Bird rights, for instance, would probably be enough as a threat to make them not want to risk it. They'll never say anything like that, but they could stop most of the collusion if they wanted to.

[rjv]

Wow. Is he saying that no-one has much interest in him? sorry, it was not woj but sporting news. this is what i read:
Jrue Holiday’s free-agency options are getting limited, and the odds are improving that he winds up staying put in New Orleans (http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/nba-free-agency-agents-rumors-predictions-jrue-holiday-pelicans-news-contract/qpkzg0p4ik5k1cryypyw8ioxx?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter). According to league sources, some of the potential Holiday suitors have seen their interest drop off in recent weeks, and a glut of point guards available either by trade (Ricky Rubio, Eric Bledsoe) or free agency (George Hill, Jeff Teague) has watered down the market.
– via Sporting News (http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/nba-free-agency-agents-rumors-predictions-jrue-holiday-pelicans-news-contract/qpkzg0p4ik5k1cryypyw8ioxx?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

[KDKSpurs24]

Anyone high on James Johnson from the Heat? He has decent numbers and is a free agent if we need to unload LaMarcus and need a solid role player.
I'm high on James Johnson. My brother is a heat fan and he enjoyed having him this season and wants him back for next season. He's pretty versatile and could be great for cheap.

[coachmac87]

Unless LAC gave permission for Harden to backdoor recruit I have to disagree.

I was thinking the same thing..

Whole thing seemed odd.

Two weeks ago Beverly went nuts on twitter saying he's probably getting traded..Dekker then tweets for him to "chill"..
Lou Will tweeted he wasn't surprised for trade cause he's known fo two weeks..

Clippers sure didn't act like or know Paul was gone until he met with them earlier this week

[SAGirl]

Spurs get: Paul George + Myles Turner

Sixers get : Danny Green

Pacers get: LaMarcus Aldridge + Derrick White +18' Spurs 1st + Okafor + Justin Anderson + Sixers 18' 2nd round pick (from Brooklyn)

Or

Spurs get: Paul George + Myles Turner

Sixers get : Danny Green

IND gets: Bender + White + Okafor+ Justin Anderson + SA 1st in 18' + PHX 1st in 18' ( via MIA top 7 protected)

PHX gets : LaMarcus Aldridge
That's too rich wanting Myles Turner. I don't think he will be offered in any trade.

[rjv]

indy is not going to get rid of turner knowing that PG is as good as gone.

[Dex]

880447159341957121

https://media.giphy.com/media/11FiDF2fuOujPG/giphy.gif

[GSH]

CP3
Harden/Gordon
Ariza
Anderson
Capella/Nene

Doesn't really look that depleted, especially considering Pringles runs a 7-8 player rotation normally. They gave up Beverley and Dekker who were rotational players for Paul, the rest were fillers and nobodies. I wouldn't really say they gutted or depleted their roster tbh


Just mentioned it in another thread. The Rockets finished the year (playoffs) with Lou Williams. He played 2,000 minutes total last year, and he would have played that many with the Rockets this year. Remember that the best team the Rockets could put on the court included Williams, and that team lost. Losing both him and Beverly, at 2,000 minutes each means that they are going to be putting someone on the floor who is not as good. One step forward and two steps back.

[SAGirl]

My goodness, check out this article guys:

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/6/28/15888580/houston-rockets-trade-daryl-morey-chris-paul-salary-cap

Why the Rockets traded for every fringe NBA player known to man

9 (https://www.sbnation.com/2017/6/28/15888580/houston-rockets-trade-daryl-morey-chris-paul-salary-cap#comments)


This was an incredibly creative way to make the Chris Paul trade work under NBA rules.



The Houston Rockets (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/teams/houston-rockets) spent Wednesday doing two very different things. One of those things was a blockbuster deal to bring Chris Paul (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21662/chris-paul) to town. The other was a mad rush to acquire every fringe roster player under the sun in exchange for cash considerations.


In the span of a few hours, the Rockets took on DeAndre Liggins from the Mavericks (https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/status/880104288340426754), Ryan Kelly from the Hawks (http://www.nba.com/hawks/news/hawks-trade-ryan-kelly-houston-exchange-cash-considerations?cid=hawks_17releases_s_062817_t_kel lyrockets), Tim Quarterman from the Blazers (http://www.nba.com/blazers/news/trail-blazers-trade-tim-quarterman-houston-cash-considerations), Darrun Hilliard from the Pistons (https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/880136670061895680), and Shawn Long from the 76ers (https://twitter.com/WojVerticalNBA/status/880151111377838080). More moves like that could be on the way, as other teams rush to get in on what ESPN’s Brian Windhorst called (https://twitter.com/WindhorstESPN/status/880117818410381312) a “salary-cap manipulation masterpiece” by the Rockets.
Ever heard of those guys? Not many folks have. To get them, all the Rockets needed to send out was sweet, sweet cash:

So what are the Rockets up to, anyway? Why are they suddenly so interested in collecting as many fringe NBA players as possible?



It’s related to Chris Paul.
The Rockets used some combination of these players to complete the Paul trade

NBA rules state that teams that are over the cap must craft trades where the salaries are within 120 percent of each other. The Rockets operated as an over-the-cap team to acquire Paul (https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/6/28/15886854/chris-paul-houston-rockets-trade-no-cap-space-nba-free-agency)because they were never going to get far enough under the cap this summer to sign him outright in free agency.
But the basic structure of the Paul deal — Patrick Beverley (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/71859/patrick-beverley), Lou Williams (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21577/lou-williams), Sam Dekker (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/257492/sam-dekker), Montrezl Harrell (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/257493/montrezl-harrell), and a 2018 first-round pick — did not offer enough salary to meet the 125 percent threshold. Paul was opting in to a $24.2 million contract next year, plus he was entitled to a 15 percent trade kicker that bumped his salary up further. (He ultimately elected to waive most of it to help the Rockets out (https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/880150923401723906)). Beverley, Williams, and Dekker only add up to $15.3 million in salary, which is well below the 120 percent threshold.
Houston needed to add more outgoing money to complete the deal. They could do this by attaching another big salary, but they actually want to keep those players around. So, the Rockets adopted a different approach: Aggregate as many tiny salaries as possible, preferably ones that are non-guaranteed so the Clippers (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/teams/los-angeles-clippers) could simply waive the player upon arrival with no cap hit.



Which NBA players have tiny, non-guaranteed salaries? Fringe NBA players!

The minimum cap figure for an NBA player is projected to be about $543,000, depending on where the final salary projection falls. The Rockets already had two such players on their roster in Isaiah Taylor (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/283029/isaiah-taylor) and Kyle Wiltjer. Both players have deals that are completely unguaranteed. Chinanu Onuaku (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/276624/chinanu-onuaku) also has a minimum salary, though it is guaranteed.
But even combining those three players doesn’t get the Rockets to the 120 percent threshold once you account for Paul’s trade kicker. Hence, the trade for Kelly. Hence, the trade for Quarterman. Hence, the trade for Liggins. Hence, the trade for Hillard. Hence the trade for Long. All but Liggins have non-guaranteed minimum salaries, so the Clippers can take them in during the trade, then immediately waive them with no penalty.
Ultimately, the Rockets included Wiltjer, Hillard, and Liggins in this trade. The other newcomers are still on the Rockets’ roster. We’ll explain why in a minute.


What did those teams get in return? Sweet, sweet cash (plus, in the 76ers’ case, a second-round pick that’s probably heavily protected). NBA rules allow teams to include up to $3.5 million cash each year to throw in trades. It’s unclear how much money is changing hands in each individual deal, but it’s likely enough to cover the salaries the Hawks, Pistons, Blazers, 76ers, and Mavericks were going to pay Kelly, Hillard, Quarterman, Long, and Liggins anyway.
A few-hundred-thousand-dollar cap hit here, a few-hundred-thousand-dollar cap hit there, and suddenly the Rockets had enough money to match salary in a trade for Paul, especially since Paul agreed to waive most of his 15 percent trade kicker.
In the end, Houston didn’t need all of these players to make this deal happen. So, what of the minimum-salaried players left over? What of Kelly, Quarterman, and Long?
One option is for the Rockets to keep them. Another, though, is to use them later on to help grease the wheels of another big trade. Like, say, Paul George (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/111927/paul-george) or Carmelo Anthony (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21501/carmelo-anthony)?

-----------------------------------

:bang


thanks for sharing. :tu

Spurs could have sold rights to Forbes for cash considerations according to that article. He was due just slightly over 1 million in a non-guaranteed deal.. but Spurs elected not to do that bc they like him... he's due to practice in their summer league and they still have hopes for him. I just thought I'd mention it bc often these guys (and other young players) are thrown into any possible deal by guys here just to get them off the team. That's not going to happen.

[Joseph Kony]

I disagree on that, don't really think Lou Williams will be a big loss for them, they still have Gordon to fill the 6th man role and Williams was a luxury for them, though I honestly forgot he was apart of the deal. So they did trade some solid pieces, but imo they didn't do anything to jeopardize themselves. Williams/Dekker/Beverley are all solid players but they got an all-star, 1st team all-defense PG to replace Bev and Rockets will find someone to plug in off the bench to eat of Williams' minutes.

[TimDunkem]

Jrue might just be available after all.

880472540413652992

[GSH]

I disagree on that, don't really think Lou Williams will be a big loss for them, they still have Gordon to fill the 6th man role and Williams was a luxury for them, though I honestly forgot he was apart of the deal. So they did trade some solid pieces, but imo they didn't do anything to jeopardize themselves. Williams/Dekker/Beverley are all solid players but they got an all-star, 1st team all-defense PG to replace Bev and Rockets will find someone to plug in off the bench to eat of Williams' minutes.


The problem is, they lost TWO guys who played 2,000 minutes last season, and got back a guy who played 1,900. (Which is about right, at CP3's age.) Williams only played part of the season with the rockets, but he played at exactly a 2,000 minute pace. Beverly actually played at a 2,400 minute pace, but he only played in 67 games.

I'm not under-valuing CP3. But those two guys played just as many minutes in the playoffs. So that was the best team that the Rockets could put on the floor. CP3 can make up for one. Someone else has to make up for the other. If Gordon steps up to that, then someone has to fill Gordon's 6th man minutes. See the problem? If CP3 is going to make them better overall, they have to fill in a lot of minutes with players just as good. We'll see if they can do that.

[SAGirl]

With Pau coming back, it's very possible that the best PG the Spurs can afford is Patty. Their interest in Rose may well be trying to get him on the cheap. My guess is they have $10 Million to offer, maybe $12 Million if Pau is planning on retiring after this season.

That's sad, because I'd rather have a guy like Teague, but not at the expense or Green or LMA.

I hope Spurs don't keep Patty frankly. It doesn't make sense to draft White, and still have Forbes to develop and then on top of that Dijon and a returning from injury Tony. They are covered in PG at this point with talent. Patty has peaked and is looking to get paid. I have to disagree with you in wanting Patty back. I think Patty is gone, and I wish him well.

As for LMA, I know you are in the camp that hopes he is still here next season but he likely won't be.

[TimDunkem]

Dear lord, please let another team offer Patty an outrageous contract he can't refuse.

[Joseph Kony]

The problem is, they lost TWO guys who played 2,000 minutes last season, and got back a guy who played 1,900. (Which is about right, at CP3's age.) Williams only played part of the season with the rockets, but he played at exactly a 2,000 minute pace. Beverly actually played at a 2,400 minute pace, but he only played in 67 games.

I'm not under-valuing CP3. But those two guys played just as many minutes in the playoffs. So that was the best team that the Rockets could put on the floor. CP3 can make up for one. Someone else has to make up for the other. If Gordon steps up to that, then someone has to fill Gordon's 6th man minutes. See the problem? If CP3 is going to make them better overall, they have to fill in a lot of minutes with players just as good. We'll see if they can do that.

Morey is a good GM who knows how to fill his roster, I have no doubts they will fill the void on the bench (though it won't be anyone as good most likely). But if they're going all in for Melo/George like the rumors have it, they may not really care about their punch off the bench as the may feel CP3/Harden/Melo or George/Anderson/Capella is enough firepower. A good bench is nice to have but for a coach like D'antoni who only plays 8 guys in the playoffs, i think they'll be fine

[rastaspur]

Morey is a good GM who knows how to fill his roster, I have no doubts they will fill the void on the bench (though it won't be anyone as good most likely). But if they're going all in for Melo/George like the rumors have it, they may not really care about their punch off the bench as the may feel CP3/Harden/Melo or George/Anderson/Capella is enough firepower. A good bench is nice to have but for a coach like D'antoni who only plays 8 guys in the playoffs, i think they'll be fine

I think kony is right on this one.

[HarlemHeat37]

Anyone high on James Johnson from the Heat? He has decent numbers and is a free agent if we need to unload LaMarcus and need a solid role player.

I'd take him if the Spurs are still trying to win now, tbh..I'd rather have him than Millsap if his price is significantly lower..

He won't be a role player, though, he's a legit point forward..Spurs desperately miss playmaking in the front court IMO..very good defender, low mileage, improving shooter..

Might be too tough for the Spurs, though(he's the most frightening player in the league, right now)..Pop doesn't like those types, as we saw with Dedmon(probably disliked when Bertans got in a scuffle, too:lol )

[Mnky]

I'm not big on patty being a mainstay for a big contract, but against warriors, curry admitted they sold out their entire defense just to stop his shot. He was admittedly frustrated and overwhelmed by it, but that points more to the lack of playmaking surrounding the spurs. White and dejounte are both about 6'5 and have the length to play the 2, and guard the 2 easily. People need to get over the position defining mindset, as it just doesn't really exist these days. You have guards and forwards pretty much. They can all interchange as well.

That being said, Patty seems to crumble against gsw . He loses confidence so fast against them. Murray, attacked relentless and seemed up to the challenge. I feel like he could develop heavily with playing time much like kawhi. Add bertans, hanga, and blossom as a possible small ball center and things look interesting.

If all these young guys stay on, i think the spurs are definitely an upgrade over last year where we just had no one outside of kawhi who could make iso plays for most the season. Even in the beautiful game, Duncan, Boris, parker and manu could all create their own offense and then play off that for teammates. Kawhi doesn't have that momentarily. These young hungry players might change the persona the intimidated crew had last year.

[buttsR4rebounding]

To play around with the cap a bit more, let's say they dump LMA for no salary and let Simmons walk. That would give them $42.3 Million in space, provided they were using that space to sign three players.

The least I could see Pau taking is $8.57 Million (first year of a $27M/3 deal). That leaves SA with $33.7 Million to offer the best PF and PG they can get. Ideally, that'd be Millsap and Teague. Teague, Green, Leonard, Millsap and Pau could run the offense the way it used to be run. You get Lee back as the bench C with Bertans, Anderson, White and Murray, and you'll get some pieces for a "beautiful game".

The D, though would be suspect with no big able to really protect the rim. Maybe a healthy Tiago over Lee could help.

If Bogut is healthy he might be a decent defensive big that could be had cheap.

[DPG21920]

I'd take him if the Spurs are still trying to win now, tbh..I'd rather have him than Millsap if his price is significantly lower..

He won't be a role player, though, he's a legit point forward..Spurs desperately miss playmaking in the front court IMO..very good defender, low mileage, improving shooter..

Might be too tough for the Spurs, though(he's the most frightening player in the league, right now)..Pop doesn't like those types, as we saw with Dedmon(probably disliked when Bertans got in a scuffle, too:lol )

My only concern with that is he has proven to be good enough with the ball in his hands and Kawhi has the ball in his hands at a forward position.

[Big Empty]

I'd take him if the Spurs are still trying to win now, tbh..I'd rather have him than Millsap if his price is significantly lower..

He won't be a role player, though, he's a legit point forward..Spurs desperately miss playmaking in the front court IMO..very good defender, low mileage, improving shooter..

Might be too tough for the Spurs, though(he's the most frightening player in the league, right now)..Pop doesn't like those types, as we saw with Dedmon(probably disliked when Bertans got in a scuffle, too:lol )

I like his game. Some Highlights from last season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVQ0RuvZiy8