Young: sources tell @ExpressNews that Kawhi Leonard wants to be traded from Spurs

[Marcus Bryant]

If it was explicitly clear that Philly getting Leonard would mean they get LeBeon then the stage is set for the Spurs to realize something approximating actual value.

[ducks]

It doesn't make sense to trade for Kawhi without moving Tatum or Hayward. How many starting SFs do they need? They have a glut of players.

Trade them for a big

[coachmac87]

You would think that, but why the dumb drama about the injury diagnosis, which as of now hasn't required actual surgery.

Whatever conversations that there have been about the supermax have been going on for some time.


LeBron and Leonard are tied somehow or someway..it’s a drama ploy from the LeBron saga..LA was the first smokescreen now we hear Philly?? People are going nuts right now trying to figure out what’s happening but tbh nobody knows.

If Leonard’s camp truly just wants the SuperMax it gets offered, which cracks the door for LeBron again..you do it. Spurs gotta ask if it means anything..Maybe they have or haven’t.

LeBron is seeing and judging the narratives being wrote if he decides where he goes..not a lot of excitement if he went to LA or Philly..If he went to Spurs and Kawhi kissed and made up with PATFO the media wouldn’t know what to do..

I still think Houston is in play too..but Cavs ONLY became a fall back once Leonard wasn’t a shoe in for LA which is interesting..

[Killakobe81]

Except for when he tried to trade a ton of picks for Winslow :lol amazing how when someone gets saved from themselves how the narrative can change.

Great point and his picks were shitty prior to Jaylen and Tatum... Wow what a genius he drafted two good prospects with the 3rd pick overall in back2back years what a freaking genius.

[Marcus Bryant]

Lots of smoke that there is major rift between the front office and Leonard, not just a negotiating ploy.

[Mr. Body]

Great point and his picks were shitty prior to Jaylen and Tatum... Wow what a genius he drafted two good prospects with the 3rd pick overall in back2back years what a freaking genius.

The picks are crapshoots. Stealing the picks from Billy fucking King was smart as hell, if not particularly hard. What's impressive is he's still sitting on a stack of picks.

[coachmac87]

Great point and his picks were shitty prior to Jaylen and Tatum... Wow what a genius he drafted two good prospects with the 3rd pick overall in back2back years what a freaking genius.

Yeah Stevens doesn’t have any talent....

Pop has 1 All Star and a gimp.

Stevens has 2 Top 3 picks, 3 Close to Max players (Horford, Irving, Hayward)

Stevens is still a great top 3 coach if not the best but don’t come at me he’s doing things with less talk lol

[DPG21920]

The picks are crapshoots. Stealing the picks from Billy fucking King was smart as hell, if not particularly hard. What's impressive is he's still sitting on a stack of picks.

Because he was turned down for Winslow. Lucky him. He’s done great with his stuff after that though, just lucky he was saved from himself.

[tholdren]

I don't see Boston dealing Tatum OR Gordon Hayward. Don't see them trading Hayward one year after signing him and after that terrible injury. Plus he's Boston's best player.

[Marcus Bryant]

https://ble.ac/2K6kHKt

Philadelphia 76ers get: Kawhi Leonard, Patty Mills

San Antonio Spurs get: Markelle Fultz, Dario Saric, Robert Covington, Jerryd Bayless, Miami Heat's 2021 first-round pick

[objective]

Supposedly Hayward had complications with his recovery, needing that recent surgery to remove some screws when at the time of the first surgery there was speculation that he'd be ready by the playoffs

If he's not 100% by camp, maybe Ainge is willing to move him.

[DPG21920]

https://ble.ac/2K6kHKt

Philadelphia 76ers get: Kawhi Leonard, Patty Mills

San Antonio Spurs get: Markelle Fultz, Dario Saric, Robert Covington, Jerryd Bayless, Miami Heat's 2021 first-round pick

I don’t know why people keep throwing Bayless in? I mean, I’m fine if that is the deal, but PHI will have some cap space so salaries don’t have to match perfectly and SA shouldn’t need to take Bayless to make the deal work and would be nice not to have to.

[baseline bum]

It doesn't make sense to trade for Kawhi without moving Tatum or Hayward. How many starting SFs do they need? They have a glut of players.

I don't want Hayward at all. But if they give up Tatum the only thing that could top that would be Philly offering Simmons.

[tholdren]

Send him to golden state. Troll the whole league

[baseline bum]

If it was explicitly clear that Philly getting Leonard would mean they get LeBeon then the stage is set for the Spurs to realize something approximating actual value.

Simmons is the only player who would be actual value. Hell the Spurs would actually win the trade if that was the offer while we're talking pipe dreams.

[look_at_g_shred]

Why the bell isn’t it Simmons instead of Fultz? That makes no damn sense.

[exstatic]

Supposedly Hayward had complications with his recovery, needing that recent surgery to remove some screws when at the time of the first surgery there was speculation that he'd be ready by the playoffs

If he's not 100% by camp, maybe Ainge is willing to move him.
A 28YO SF coming off a possibly botched surgery. Where do I sign?

[baseline bum]

LeBron and Leonard are tied somehow or someway..it’s a drama ploy from the LeBron saga..LA was the first smokescreen now we hear Philly?? People are going nuts right now trying to figure out what’s happening but tbh nobody knows.

If Leonard’s camp truly just wants the SuperMax it gets offered, which cracks the door for LeBron again..you do it. Spurs gotta ask if it means anything..Maybe they have or haven’t.

LeBron is seeing and judging the narratives being wrote if he decides where he goes..not a lot of excitement if he went to LA or Philly..If he went to Spurs and Kawhi kissed and made up with PATFO the media wouldn’t know what to do..

I still think Houston is in play too..but Cavs ONLY became a fall back once Leonard wasn’t a shoe in for LA which is interesting..

Houston is not in play. Cleveland is not taking Ryan Anderson's contract to be paying through the nose in both payroll and luxury tax to send LeBron to Houston. Same reason the Spurs aren't in play for LeBron even if Leonard decides he's staying tonight. No way Cleveland is taking Gasol's contract. It's gotta be LA or Philly. I can't possibly see him staying in Cleveland.

[toki9]

That's the cover story.

Yes, he's working on his shot and has been.

But camp doesn't open for 3 months and he can't risk taking 5 days against mostly g-league caliber players in exhibition settings? Exactly what kind of catastrophic result are they so afraid of? What if he actually shot well and catapulted his value up and started great buzz going into next year?

But apparently the danger to his mind is so incredible that it out weighs the benefits of him playing well.

Maybe they want to hold him out because they're worried about injury screwing up potential trades? And since they can't say that there's a trade being structured around him, go with this as a cover story?

[coachmac87]

Houston is not in play. Cleveland is not taking Ryan Anderson's contract to be paying through the nose in both payroll and luxury tax to send LeBron to Houston. Same reason the Spurs aren't in play for LeBron even if Leonard decides he's staying tonight. No way Cleveland is taking Gasol's contract. It's gotta be LA or Philly. I can't possibly see him staying in Cleveland.


Cleveland wasn’t in play from the jump...until Kawhi to LA died. That’s odd to me because I would’nt have thought Leonard would dictate where LeBron went...unless it was to the Spurs



Edit: Only got this idea when SAS mentioned how this Kawhi-Spurs drama hurts the Spurs big picture but also killed their chance at Lebron. Said that “we didn’t know if they were a serious option or not and that’s something we haven’t talked about”

[TekXX]

What happened with Kawaii, is he being traded?

[objective]

A 28YO SF coming off a possibly botched surgery. Where do I sign?

Well, he can be salary filler.

:lol

[Down Under]

Because he was turned down for Winslow. Lucky him. He’s done great with his stuff after that though, just lucky he was saved from himself.
Except maxing Hayward, Arguably Top 30

[MoSpur02]

I didn't realize the Orlando Magic have the 3rd best odds of getting Kawhi Leonard.

I have mentioned before I wouldn't mind getting Aaron Gordon in return. Of course I'd want another player in return and/or a draft pick.

I don't see it happening, but thought it was strange that they have the 3rd best odds.

[MoSpur02]

Houston is not in play. Cleveland is not taking Ryan Anderson's contract to be paying through the nose in both payroll and luxury tax to send LeBron to Houston. Same reason the Spurs aren't in play for LeBron even if Leonard decides he's staying tonight. No way Cleveland is taking Gasol's contract. It's gotta be LA or Philly. I can't possibly see him staying in Cleveland.

Actually I have heard the Spurs are willing to go over the cap it means getting LeBron.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

LeBron was never ever coming to SA.

It was always going to be LA

[szkorhetz]

LeBron was never ever coming to SA.

It was always going to be LA
True, but I honestly don't get it.

Playing in the shadow of Kobe? I know, lifestyle and all, but he will never be a franchise icon for the Lakers and surely won't be able to beat GSW.

[Chillen]

True, but I honestly don't get it.

Playing in the shadow of Kobe? I know, lifestyle and all, but he will never be a franchise icon for the Lakers and surely won't be able to beat GSW.

Or even worse they fail to make the playoffs with LeBron and Paul George. It's the West, yes it can happen. Lakers have been a mess since Kobe retired missing the playoffs every season.

[BillMc]

Or even worse they fail to make the playoffs with LeBron and Paul George. It's the West, yes it can happen. Lakers have been a mess since Kobe retired missing the playoffs every season.

They were a mess before Kobe retired too. And some of it was his fault.

[BillMc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL_YESwTKAw

What do the Germans know that we don't? :lol

[FlAVaK]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL_YESwTKAw



What do the Germans know that we don't? :lol

Nothing, tbh.

And the celtics guy is even proposing Tatum + Brown :lol

[BillMc]

Nothing, tbh.

And the celtics guy is even proposing Tatum + Brown :lol

:lol Cheers man. :toast I'd take Tatum and Brown but not gonna happen (in any language).

[baseline bum]

Actually I have heard the Spurs are willing to go over the cap it means getting LeBron.

Of course they would. You think Cleveland would have paid the luxury tax to give LeBron to the Spurs though?

[look_at_g_shred]

IMHO, the spurs are going to wait and see what LeBron/Lakers do before signing off on any trade. Look the spurs aren’t stupid and they know what Kawhi is worth and it isn’t Markelle fucking Fultz. I think the reason anything hasn’t gone down is because the spurs are askin for at the very least, Simmons to be included. Same goes for Boston too, they are waiting to see if Ainge puts Tatum back on the table. The only way that plays out is if LAL doesn’t have space for Kawhi next summer with the moves they make this FA. Then Leonard if he still wants out opens his list of teams and gives a verbal he’ll sign an extension with either bos/phila

[YGWHI]

You think that would go down any easier with his group? I don't.
Well, if his group is willing to lose $80M, an injury-clause isn't the worst that can happen to them...

NBA is all about status. "Kawhi gets the supermax deal like Curry and Russ...He's at the same level of them..." That's the narrative his camp would want since they're looking for better endorsement deals.
It's not always about a city or a small market, it's about the status a player receives.

Again, it's not like I share this perspective, but it seems how things work in the league. I think Kawhi's way better player than Russ and -unlike Curry- he plays both ends of floor...But status is not always related to level of play.

[Twisted_Dawg]

Great point and his picks were shitty prior to Jaylen and Tatum... Wow what a genius he drafted two good prospects with the 3rd pick overall in back2back years what a freaking genius.

I'm not an Ainge fan, but he should gets lots of credit for evaluating the talent in the 2017 draft. He had the #1 pick and didn't want any part of Fultz or Ball. He traded down to #3 got a great talent in Brown and future picks. After the year Fultz had and the family drama of Ball, Ainge made a genius move.

[YGWHI]

You’re making assumptions. You don’t know that they didn’t offer it....and it hasn’t been reported that’s the reason Kawhi wants out.
Do you really think that if Spurs would have offered it, Woj, Shams and the rest of guys wouldn't talk about it?

We would hear Stephen A Smith yelling some "Spurs offered supermax, Kawhi Leonard didn't say a word...Be a grown man, Kawhi! If you don't like cameras I have a f*ckling radio show" :D


That’s the thing you still don’t understand...his camp is using the “misdiagnosis” as his calling card out of SA. Like people would understand his point of view if it was known and backed by something. If Kawhi was denied the supermax that’s an easy sell for his way out....

But it still starts and ends with the injury diagnosis..everything is tied to it. Yet we still don’t legitimately know the truth..not even you. Yet you’ll take a bullet for Kawhi..
What's if Kawhi really feels that way? I'm not saying it happened but what's if he feels that his NY doctors' diagnosis of ossifications is right and Spurs' doctors were wrong?

So it's not like "I don't understand", I truly believe the injury and how bad both sides handled it, was the begining of the relationship's issues between Spurs and Kawhi.

If you read Woj or Jabari, the former with inside-sources in Spurs' org and the latter being close to Kawhi's camp, both guys in their articles/tweets agree that the injury was the real issue.

Of course Pop, Parker, Manu comments didn't help and could have bothered Kawhi too. If he really felt that the Spurs mishandled his injury and the franchise didn't support him in public when he needed it, he could have reasons to want out.

But unlike you, I don't buy that he wanted out since preseason and made a "malefic plan" to leave...

Everything Kawhi said in China was about how much he wanted to win other ring with the Spurs, he talked in what he was working to improve his game and how it could improve the Spurs too...

Also, Kawhi doesn't need to use an injury as excuse to leave...Players don't need it.
Hayward, KD left their teams without giving a reason, they just wrote articles on Player Tribune talking about how much they thanked their former teams and that was all.

[SpursDynasty85]

Do you really think that if Spurs would have offered it, Woj, Shams and the rest of guys wouldn't talk about it?

We would hear Stephen A Smith yelling some "Spurs offered supermax, Kawhi Leonard didn't say a word...Be a grown man, Kawhi! If you don't like cameras I have a f*ckling radio show" :D


What's if Kawhi really feels that way? I'm not saying it happened but what's if he feels that his NY doctors' diagnosis of ossifications is right and Spurs' doctors were wrong?

So it's not like "I don't understand", I truly believe the injury and how bad both sides handled it, was the begining of the relationship's issues between Spurs and Kawhi.

If you read Woj or Jabari, the former with inside-sources in Spurs' org and the latter being close to Kawhi's camp, both guys in their articles/tweets agree that the injury was the real issue.

Of course Pop, Parker, Manu comments didn't help and could have bothered Kawhi too. If he really felt that the Spurs mishandled his injury and the franchise didn't support him in public when he needed it, he could have reasons to want out.

But unlike you, I don't buy that he wanted out since preseason and made a "malefic plan" to leave...

Everything Kawhi said in China was about how much he wanted to win other ring with the Spurs, he talked in what he was working to improve his game and how it could improve the Spurs too...

Also, Kawhi doesn't need to use an injury as excuse to leave...Players don't need it.
Hayward, KD left their teams without giving a reason, they just wrote articles on Player Tribune talking about how much they thanked their former teams and that was all.

KD and Hayward left when their contracts were up. Kawhi sat out the entire year then completely sabotaged his trade value with the Spurs. Something is wrong. I can't for sure say what the injury was about but he had since May of last year to rehab that injury. You sound naive to deny that it could easily have been a way too cautious plan to get the supermax, no trade clause, and then demand a trade to LA this off season. No one will probably ever know for sure. Uncle Dennis's story is suspect too. I think in shelburne's article he started dabbling in RE investments and made $10M + in one year. If their is ever an insider trading transaction that one reeked of it and then he completely talks for his nephew now. That is not Spurs Supermax material right there.

[YGWHI]

KD and Hayward left when their contracts were up.
They were the franchise players, they could have resigned with their teams but didn't it...And they didn't give reasons why...because players don't need "reasons" to leave.


Kawhi sat out the entire year then completely sabotaged his trade value with the Spurs. Something is wrong. I can't for sure say what the injury was about but he had since May of last year to rehab that injury. You sound naive to deny that it could easily have been a way too cautious plan to get the supermax, no trade clause, and then demand a trade to LA this off season. No one will probably ever know for sure. Uncle Dennis's story is suspect too. I think in shelburne's article he started dabbling in RE investments and made $10M + in one year. If their is ever an insider trading transaction that one reeked of it and then he completely talks for his nephew now. That is not Spurs Supermax material right there.

Some people think Kawhi wasn't injured, I think the opposite.

Some people think Kawhi is the first and only player in NBA history to miss a season due to injury, I think the opposite.

Some people think Kawhi needs "a plan" to leave, I think the opposite.

[Mugen]

The Philly package is just so meh. I know the Spurs won't get a good return back but:

-Take a chance to see if Fultz recovers from the yips, not to mention also plays the same position as Murray
-B Level Prospect in Saric
-RoCo' terrible contract
-Have to hope the Heat don't get very good in the next 2 years so the 2021 pick is actually top 5

Just not that high on any of those pieces.

[Spurs9]

IMHO, the spurs are going to wait and see what LeBron/Lakers do before signing off on any trade. Look the spurs aren’t stupid and they know what Kawhi is worth and it isn’t Markelle fucking Fultz. I think the reason anything hasn’t gone down is because the spurs are askin for at the very least, Simmons to be included. Same goes for Boston too, they are waiting to see if Ainge puts Tatum back on the table. The only way that plays out is if LAL doesn’t have space for Kawhi next summer with the moves they make this FA. Then Leonard if he still wants out opens his list of teams and gives a verbal he’ll sign an extension with either bos/phila

That sounds about right. They may not even need Kawhi in LA, they could trade and get Kemba, a Lebron/PG/Kemba team would be really good.

[SpursDynasty85]

I think the Spurs are trying to do their due diligence with Kawhi which includes mending fences to at least the point Kawhi works with organization on getting value back for him. Even LA I am sure are not including much knowing they can probably sign him next year for nothing. Spurs are trying to convince him to go East and sign.

[coachmac87]

Do you really think that if Spurs would have offered it, Woj, Shams and the rest of guys wouldn't talk about it?

We would hear Stephen A Smith yelling some "Spurs offered supermax, Kawhi Leonard didn't say a word...Be a grown man, Kawhi! If you don't like cameras I have a f*ckling radio show" :D


What's if Kawhi really feels that way? I'm not saying it happened but what's if he feels that his NY doctors' diagnosis of ossifications is right and Spurs' doctors were wrong?

So it's not like "I don't understand", I truly believe the injury and how bad both sides handled it, was the begining of the relationship's issues between Spurs and Kawhi.

If you read Woj or Jabari, the former with inside-sources in Spurs' org and the latter being close to Kawhi's camp, both guys in their articles/tweets agree that the injury was the real issue.

Of course Pop, Parker, Manu comments didn't help and could have bothered Kawhi too. If he really felt that the Spurs mishandled his injury and the franchise didn't support him in public when he needed it, he could have reasons to want out.

But unlike you, I don't buy that he wanted out since preseason and made a "malefic plan" to leave...

Everything Kawhi said in China was about how much he wanted to win other ring with the Spurs, he talked in what he was working to improve his game and how it could improve the Spurs too...

Also, Kawhi doesn't need to use an injury as excuse to leave...Players don't need it.
Hayward, KD left their teams without giving a reason, they just wrote articles on Player Tribune talking about how much they thanked their former teams and that was all.


It’s simple man ..Woj or whoever said Kawhi isn’t worried about losing the SuperMax right? Was that not reported? It’s about the diagnosis and what stems from it. Any hesitation by Spurs comes from that situation...

And that’s the problem you seem to ignore or not understand...there’s credibility and integrity being attacked by both sides..you’ve clearly picked Kawhi and that’s cool.


And Jalen Rose first reported about Kawhi wanting out in January..before the meeting and all other drama BS you and his camp come up with

[YGWHI]

It’s about the diagnosis and what stems from it.
I've said that I truly believe that any Spurs-Kawhi issue started with the injury and how both sides handled it. You don't have to convince me about that.


And that’s the problem you seem to ignore or not understand...there’s credibility and integrity being attacked by both sides..you’ve clearly picked Kawhi and that’s cool.

Not sure if I just picked Kawhi's side. I like to hear the two points of views. Most fans here are willing to believe only Spurs' version and I'm not comfortable with that...

I tend to think that teams are still too much powerful in a "league of players", I find ironic that most players can't match the power of the organizations.


And Jalen Rose first reported about Kawhi wanting out in January..before the meeting and all other drama BS you and his camp come up with
Jalen Rose never was part of Kawhi's friends. Many guys on media were saying they were close to Kawhi but it wasn't true. You can bet that Jabari Young is too much close to Kawhi's camp than Rose.

[exstatic]

That sounds about right. They may not even need Kawhi in LA, they could trade and get Kemba, a Lebron/PG/Kemba team would be really good.

That would be best case scenario...for the Spurs. That slams the door, and nails it shut, on Kawhi to the Lakers.

[Mugen]

The silence from Uncle Dennis & crew since the trade request is interesting. I venture to guess that we'll hear from those idiots by way of media leaks sometime this week before Free Agency starts tbh.

[rjv]

Houston is not in play. Cleveland is not taking Ryan Anderson's contract to be paying through the nose in both payroll and luxury tax to send LeBron to Houston. Same reason the Spurs aren't in play for LeBron even if Leonard decides he's staying tonight. No way Cleveland is taking Gasol's contract. It's gotta be LA or Philly. I can't possibly see him staying in Cleveland.


i think it is quite possible that lebron does another one year deal in cleveland.

[Dex]

The silence from Uncle Dennis & crew since the trade request is interesting. I venture to guess that we'll hear from those idiots by way of media leaks sometime this week before Free Agency starts tbh.

Probably scrambling for a new slant. I'm sure they expected the Spurs to blink and move Kawhi before the draft.

[Mugen]

Probably scrambling for a new slant. I'm sure they expected the Spurs to blink and move Kawhi before the draft.

That's what i'm thinking as well. I think it hit them hard that the Spurs might actually consider dragging it out. Luckily for them, I still think RC and Pop will cave soon and he'll be a Laker by the time Bron verball commits there.

[DPG21920]

I think, or at least hope, that if SA is going to trade him it will be in the next 2 weeks during free agency. If you are going to trade him no real reason to let it drag on to far into things that way you can plan your free agency as well and what you will do.

Unless the offers are so poor that keeping him is the more preferred option, then I can’t see it lingering on too much longer. It will be an extension or trade in the next 10-14 days IMO and has nothing to do with the silence.

[eDizzle20]

I would be surprised that if the Spurs do ultimately trade Kawhi it’s after the start of the season. Either he will re-sign and the fences will be mended or he’ll be gone by that point. This organization has consistently stayed away from any potential toxic environment. Which is what it will be if things are not resolved by then. I don’t think the team will proceed into the season with the goal of increasing trade value. With that being said I can’t wait for Kawhi to be grilled regardless of where he is on media day.

[eDizzle20]

I think, or at least hope, that if SA is going to trade him it will be in the next 2 weeks during free agency. If you are going to trade him no real reason to let it drag on to far into things that way you can plan your free agency as well and what you will do.

Unless the offers are so poor that keeping him is the more preferred option, then I can’t see it lingering on too much longer. It will be an extension or trade in the next 10-14 days IMO and has nothing to do with the silence.
+1

[coachmac87]

I've said that I truly believe that any Spurs-Kawhi issue started with the injury and how both sides handled it. You don't have to convince me about that.



Not sure if I just picked Kawhi's side. I like to hear the two points of views. Most fans here are willing to believe only Spurs' version and I'm not comfortable with that...

I tend to think that teams are still too much powerful in a "league of players", I find ironic that most players can't match the power of the organizations.


Jalen Rose never was part of Kawhi's friends. Many guys on media were saying they were close to Kawhi but it wasn't true. You can bet that Jabari Young is too much close to Kawhi's camp than Rose.


Do you even understand what point I’m trying to make? Like you’re again missing the point.

You said Spurs didn’t offer max and thats why he wants out...

I said that’s an assumption on your point and pointed out reasons why. If it was about that we would’ve heard it’s about that.. but it’s not and all we here is about the diagnosis.,or that’s what his camp says as the excuse.

I brought up the Jalen Rose point to point out the BS about “the meeting” being a reason for him wanting out or any of the bs excuse you or his camp made since Dec/Jan when Rose first made everyone aware he wanted out...

Main point of this entire thing. Kawhi checked out waaaay before all this “drama” started etc. and the core of it all was his injury diagnosis...or maybe he just wanted to be in LA?

[baseline bum]

The Philly package is just so meh. I know the Spurs won't get a good return back but:

-Take a chance to see if Fultz recovers from the yips, not to mention also plays the same position as Murray
-B Level Prospect in Saric
-RoCo' terrible contract
-Have to hope the Heat don't get very good in the next 2 years so the 2021 pick is actually top 5

Just not that high on any of those pieces.

Yeah it's not a very good package, but all the other offers are centered around B level prospects too. Brown, Ingram, Saric are pretty much all the same in value IMO.

[DPG21920]

Roco’s deal isn’t bad at all. It’s basically the Danny Green deal but at a time when most players were getting more.

[DPG21920]

As long as Mills is moved in the deal and TP isn’t brought back I’m good with Fultz.

Murray/Fultz/White/Lonnie/Danny and maybe Manu is really solid potential.

[SpursDynasty85]

I think, or at least hope, that if SA is going to trade him it will be in the next 2 weeks during free agency. If you are going to trade him no real reason to let it drag on to far into things that way you can plan your free agency as well and what you will do.

Unless the offers are so poor that keeping him is the more preferred option, then I can’t see it lingering on too much longer. It will be an extension or trade in the next 10-14 days IMO and has nothing to do with the silence.

I agree with a lot of what you said except the silence. Spurs are sure to want to mend fences enough to where Kawhi will at least seek to give Spurs some leverage in trade talks. This might take a while but if Pop and Kawhi can tug at some old heart strings hopefully Leonard will empathize with the Spurs knowing he was their franchise and centerpiece. His silent LALakers trade demand severely hurts the Spurs in trade talks. The least a player and organization with some type of relationship can do is work a trade that benefits both sides. And I believe the Spurs know that the only way they can do this is by talking to Kawhi and not his uncle and agent.

[spursistan]

The silence from Uncle Dennis & crew since the trade request is interesting. I venture to guess that we'll hear from those idiots by way of media leaks sometime this week before Free Agency starts tbh.
They have shot their last bullet, tbh.

Basically, all they have next is to enact another Rehab charade ("oh he suffered a setback :cry") until he gets traded, but then again we were told he is "100% or close to it" a week ago :lol..

Spurs should continue calling their bluff. I don't think this nigga career will ever recover if he and his crew keep digging their heels. He is losing money by the minute..

[ernest787]

ringer just posted an article explaining how Philly could get both Kawhi and LBJ. The trade they had for Kawhi was:

-fultz
- Covington
- bayless
- smith
- saric
- Miami pick

I'd probably take that

[DPG21920]

I agree with that I was just saying I don’t think the silence changes the logic of trading him in the next couple weeks so that you can actually have free agency plans yourselves vs building around Kawhi then trading him later.

[spurraider21]

covington's deal is great tbh

[exstatic]

ringer just posted an article explaining how Philly could get both Kawhi and LBJ. The trade they had for Kawhi was:

-fultz
- Covington
- bayless
- smith
- saric
- Miami pick

I'd probably take that

Who the hell is Smith? There isn't one on Philly's roster, and if they're talking about JR, that's a deal breaker. Spurs would never put up with his stupid shit.

[DPG21920]

Who the hell is Smith? There isn't one on Philly's roster, and if they're talking about JR, that's a deal breaker. Spurs would never put up with his stupid shit.

Zhaire Smith - they just drafted him.

[Spurs da champs]

Who the hell is Smith? There isn't one on Philly's roster, and if they're talking about JR, that's a deal breaker. Spurs would never put up with his stupid shit.

Zhaire Smith, 76ers just drafted him.

[Spurs da champs]

Zhaire is a wing at only 6'4?

[rasuo214]

Kawhi's group has gone silent since the meeting with Pop. Several in the media mentioned it was a good meeting and it has been mentioned that Kawhi still respects Pop. A big issue has been Kawhi's group isolating Kawhi from the team (most importantly Pop). So we'll see what happens once free agency starts. I personally think one of the main things working against the Spurs and Kawhi mending things is that Pop isn't expected to be coaching much longer.

[exstatic]

Zhaire Smith, 76ers just drafted him.

Ah, thanks. That's why he didn't show on their roster.

[ernest787]

Yeah. There were reports the Spurs were potentially interested in him as well.

That trade immediately gives the Spurs a bunch of assets and I think keeps them as a PO team so they aren't doing a full rebuild. Also makes Patty expendable which likely brings back another asset.

[SpursDynasty85]

Kawhi's group has gone silent since the meeting with Pop. Several in the media mentioned it was a good meeting and it has been mentioned that Kawhi still respects Pop. A big issue has been Kawhi's group isolating Kawhi from the team (most importantly Pop). So we'll see what happens once free agency starts. I personally think one of the main things working against the Spurs and Kawhi mending things is that Pop isn't expected to be coaching much longer.

So far I have only heard two sources from the meeting. Jabari's tweet and Stephen A Smith's. Both seemed to contradict each other in some ways. The silence to the media, does bode well because it likely signals them playing ball with the Spurs (doing things behind closed doors).

The Spurs may be trying to convince them to sign an extension but playout at least a portion of the year or fully with them and work on a trade for him next year. The Spurs giving out the loyalty contracts especially the one like Gasol is meant to give them the reputation of sticking to their word. They do have the leverage of having him for at least one more year.

[exstatic]

Zhaire is a wing at only 6'4?

The Spurs terminology lists two 'posts' (bigs), two 'wings' (SG/SF), and a lead (point) guard. For most plays, the two wings are interchangeable. I remember a shot that RMJ made against the Suns to win a game a few years ago, and it came out that he and Manu switched their 'routes' on that play.

[exstatic]

So far I have only heard two sources from the meeting. Jabari's tweet and Stephen A Smith's. Both seemed to contradict each other in some ways. The silence to the media, does bode well because it likely signals them playing ball with the Spurs (doing things behind closed doors).

The Spurs may be trying to convince them to sign an extension but playout at least a portion of the year or fully with them and work on a trade for him next year. The Spurs giving out the loyalty contracts especially the one like Gasol is meant to give them the reputation of sticking to their word. They do have the leverage of having him for at least one more year.

My thought is that when Kawhi allegedly said he absolutely wanted out, that started the conversation. I'm guessing that the Spurs said 'no Lakers', and asked for a list of EC teams, and that's what's being worked on now. That's the silence.

[Dex]

The Spurs terminology lists two 'posts' (bigs), two 'wings' (SG/SF), and a lead (point) guard. For most plays, the two wings are interchangeable. I remember a shot that RMJ made against the Suns to win a game a few years ago, and it came out that he and Manu switched their 'routes' on that play.

Best Christmas game ever.

G4NbhRb862k

[Spurs da champs]

The Spurs terminology lists two 'posts' (bigs), two 'wings' (SG/SF), and a lead (point) guard. For most plays, the two wings are interchangeable. I remember a shot that RMJ made against the Suns to win a game a few years ago, and it came out that he and Manu switched their 'routes' on that play.

Maybe I should rephrase wing to 3, because here that's position he'll be playing for sure. I don't know much about him, but Brett Brown did say he reminded him of Kawhi. Tony Allen played 3 for Memphis & he was tiny, he also couldn't shoot, apparently Zhaire can shoot so maybe that will work out.

[rasuo214]

So far I have only heard two sources from the meeting. Jabari's tweet and Stephen A Smith's. Both seemed to contradict each other in some ways. The silence to the media, does bode well because it likely signals them playing ball with the Spurs (doing things behind closed doors).

The Spurs may be trying to convince them to sign an extension but playout at least a portion of the year or fully with them and work on a trade for him next year. The Spurs giving out the loyalty contracts especially the one like Gasol is meant to give them the reputation of sticking to their word. They do have the leverage of having him for at least one more year.

Jabari seems to have ties with Kawhi's group and his report was positive. SAS works for ESPN so I would assume he's getting info from that and his report fits with the ESPN report.

[Mugen]

Boston still presents the best offer to me if the main pieces are Brown and the Kings' 19th. That's both better than any player and pick that the Sixers can send back.

I'd even take Hayward back in addition to the above assuming they take Pau or Patty as I think it's pretty clear the Spurs have no intention of tanking these next 2 seasons.

[look_at_g_shred]

Boston still presents the best offer to me if the main pieces are Brown and the Kings' 19th. That's both better than any player and pick that the Sixers can send back.

I'd even take Hayward back in addition to the above assuming they take Pau or Patty as I think it's pretty clear the Spurs have no intention of tanking these next 2 seasons.
Them taking Pau back would be HUGE. I'd be fine with that haul.

[Eaglenole2002]

I know it's been posted a thousand times, but I'll never understand the thinking behind Pau's deal. What an awful contract and that should have been obvious to RC.

[exstatic]

Boston still presents the best offer to me if the main pieces are Brown and the Kings' 19th. That's both better than any player and pick that the Sixers can send back.

I'd even take Hayward back in addition to the above assuming they take Pau or Patty as I think it's pretty clear the Spurs have no intention of tanking these next 2 seasons.

Kings 2019 pick is protected, and if they win the lottery, you wind up with Philly's pick, likely in the 20s, since they'll be a playoff team and then some.

Miami's unprotected pick is rare. Those almost never come on to the market. Riley should be fired for trading it like that, and for having a cap sheet that is such a fucking mess. In 2019-2020, they will have SEVEN players pulling 8 figure salaries, only one other contract, and they're already at $118M, with roster spots yet to fill. None of those players are stars, and with their salaries, no one will want them. Several of them have player options, but looking at them, and a cap that is either stagnant, or growing very slowly, I can't see any of them opting out.

See for yourself: https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/MIA.html

[ernest787]

Boston still presents the best offer to me if the main pieces are Brown and the Kings' 19th. That's both better than any player and pick that the Sixers can send back.

I'd even take Hayward back in addition to the above assuming they take Pau or Patty as I think it's pretty clear the Spurs have no intention of tanking these next 2 seasons.

I like brown and the kings pick, but want no part of the Hayward contract.

If Spurs took the philly package and traded patty and then dumped Gasol next offseason, you'd have a bunch of young assets and potentially a bunch of cap space.

[Mugen]

Kings 2019 pick is protected, and if they win the lottery, you wind up with Philly's pick, likely in the 20s, since they'll be a playoff team and then some.

Miami's unprotected pick is rare. Those almost never come on to the market. Riley should be fired for trading it like that, and for having a cap sheet that is such a fucking mess. In 2019-2020, they will have SEVEN players pulling 8 figure salaries, only one other contract, and they're already at $118M, with roster spots yet to fill. None of those players are stars, and with their salaries, no one will want them. Several of them have player options, but looking at them, and a cap that is either stagnant, or growing very slowly, I can't see any of them opting out.

See for yourself: https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/MIA.html

Isn't the Kings pick top 1 protected? if so, I like gambling on that better than hoping Miami is complete ass in the next 2 years. A lot can change in 2 NBA years tbh.

[SpursDynasty85]

I like brown and the kings pick, but want no part of the Hayward contract.

If Spurs took the philly package and traded patty and then dumped Gasol next offseason, you'd have a bunch of young assets and potentially a bunch of cap space.

None of this works if Kawhi doesn't give some sort of longer term commitment. If I'm Boston I sit tight for now. They can find plenty of suitors for Hayward to other teams I think.

[gambit1990]

I know it's been posted a thousand times, but I'll never understand the thinking behind Pau's deal. What an awful contract and that should have been obvious to RC.
can't remember where i read it but someone had tried justifying it by saying he had opted out so the spurs could potentially have space for cp3. and then the spurs owed him.

but it was reported that the spurs weren't really interested in cp3 so idk.

[exstatic]

I know it's been posted a thousand times, but I'll never understand the thinking behind Pau's deal. What an awful contract and that should have been obvious to RC.

When you ask a player to opt out so that you can create cap room, there is usually a sweetener involved. They don't HAVE to do what you want. If you reach an understanding, your plans fall through (thanks, CP3), and you backtrack and screw them over, no player will ever opt out for you again.

He only really got one extra year, plus $6M that can be stretched out over the following 3 years, or eaten in one chunk, whatever works best at the time.

[exstatic]

Isn't the Kings pick top 1 protected? if so, I like gambling on that better than hoping Miami is complete ass in the next 2 years. A lot can change in 2 NBA years tbh.

Look at their cap sheet. It's in my previous post, the one you quoted that I'm quoting you on. It's a mess.

I can't find it right now, but I also read somewhere that the Sacto pick is top 1 protected, and also protected if it falls lower than 9 or maybe 10. It may not convey at all, or you could wind up with Philly's pick, because they put conditions on it when they flipped it to Boston in the Fultz trade.

[Mugen]

Look at their cap sheet. It's in my previous post, the one you quoted that I'm quoting you on. It's a mess.

I can't find it right now, but I also read somewhere that the Sacto pick is top 1 protected, and also protected if it falls lower than 9 or maybe 10. It may not convey at all, or you could wind up with Philly's pick, because they put conditions on it when they flipped it to Boston in the Fultz trade.

Agree to disagree. I just like the odds of Sacramento's picking being between 1 and 9 next draft as opposed to gambling that a team with a good coach + Pat Riley being absolute shit two seasons from now.

[exstatic]

None of this works if Kawhi doesn't give some sort of longer term commitment. If I'm Boston I sit tight for now. They can find plenty of suitors for Hayward to other teams I think.

Hayward is 28, and still hasn't recovered yet from his surgery to repair the leg and insert screws. He's also making a ton on a recent long term contract. He's not a desirable asset right now.

You're also making the SAME mistake as a lot of other posters. You see the Boston trade in a vacuum, like they're the only ones playing the trade game. Philly's in the game, too, and neither team can let the other have Kawhi.

[spurs1990]

Kings 2019 pick is protected, and if they win the lottery, you wind up with Philly's pick, likely in the 20s, since they'll be a playoff team and then some.

Miami's unprotected pick is rare. Those almost never come on to the market. Riley should be fired for trading it like that, and for having a cap sheet that is such a fucking mess. In 2019-2020, they will have SEVEN players pulling 8 figure salaries, only one other contract, and they're already at $118M, with roster spots yet to fill. None of those players are stars, and with their salaries, no one will want them. Several of them have player options, but looking at them, and a cap that is either stagnant, or growing very slowly, I can't see any of them opting out.

See for yourself: https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/MIA.html


Lol oh my god I didn't think it was possible to be disgusted by someone else's decision making but that Miami roster is as sad as you can get.

I mean that is flagrantly bad GMing.... you hit it on the nail with the star players comment:

This is what Miami is paying not just for next year, but for at least two seasons:
$25m Whiteside
$19m Tyler Johnson
$18m Dragic
$14m James Johnson (3 yrs left)
$11m Waiters (3 yrs left)
$11m Olynck (3 yrs left)
$9m Josh Richardson (4 yrs left)

I mean comparatively our moaning about Patty, Gasoft, and Danny's salaries looks silly.

Just thank goodness you aren't a Heat fan. This isn't a cellar dweller franchise....they were winning multiple titles earlier this decade.

If Philly gives us that Miami pick definitely ups the ante.....

[exstatic]

Agree to disagree. I just like the odds of Sacramento's picking being between 1 and 9 next draft as opposed to gambling that a team with a good coach + Pat Riley being absolute shit two seasons from now.

We'll have to do that, then. The thing is, the Miami pick is a sure thing, it WILL convey in 2021, and their (traded to PHO) pick this year was BETTER than ours, #16 overall. They were like a 7th seed in the EC, and I don't see lots of chances to improve.

[ernest787]

We'll have to do that, then. The thing is, the Miami pick is a sure thing, it WILL convey in 2021, and their (traded to PHO) pick this year was BETTER than ours, #16 overall. They were like a 7th seed in the EC, and I don't see lots of chances to improve.

yeah. even if the Heat don't get worse, they are not getting better. No one is taking on that Whiteside contract.

[DAF86]

Just because Spur fans don't like the 2018 version of MVPau doesn't change the fact that prime MVPau carried Kobe, tbh. :downspin:

It's not that we don't like 2018 Pau. We don't like his contract. If he was paid relatively close to what his game gives us, nobody would have a problem with him.

[SpursDynasty85]

Hayward is 28, and still hasn't recovered yet from his surgery to repair the leg and insert screws. He's also making a ton on a recent long term contract. He's not a desirable asset right now.

You're also making the SAME mistake as a lot of other posters. You see the Boston trade in a vacuum, like they're the only ones playing the trade game. Philly's in the game, too, and neither team can let the other have Kawhi.

And you're playing the vacuum as if Boston must trade for Kawhi. If you look at it from Boston's perspective they shouldn't be in any rush to make a trade unless they are certain it benefits them (longterm Kawhi). Hayward's value has dropped obviously but the pure fact that he has value is the reason Boston is in good position because they Have Jaylen Brown and Tatum already (They don't need Hayward). Rumors have suggested they are more apt to trading Hayward or Kyrie before they trade any of their young assets. It is a bigger risk to lose key assets for a one year lease vs staying pat. They are already the favorites in the East.

You can compare to Philly's deal of getting Kawhi. If Philly does get Kawhi they have to give them assets too. It does not put them over the top. You also suggested dangling the pick to Sacramento. That is far fetched too. The only way this works out is if Kawhi plays ball which is what the Spurs I am sure are trying to make happen right now.

[Marco]

I really do hope Spurs will not regret the chance of trading Leonard on draft night.

[exstatic]

And you're playing the vacuum as if Boston must trade for Kawhi. If you look at it from Boston's perspective they shouldn't be in any rush to make a trade unless they are certain it benefits them (longterm Kawhi). Hayward's value has dropped obviously but the pure fact that he has value is the reason Boston is in good position because they Have Jaylen Brown and Tatum already (They don't need Hayward). Rumors have suggested they are more apt to trading Hayward or Kyrie before they trade any of their young assets. It is a bigger risk to lose key assets for a one year lease vs staying pat. They are already the favorites in the East.

You can compare to Philly's deal of getting Kawhi. If Philly does get Kawhi they have to give them assets too. It does not put them over the top. You also suggested dangling the pick to Sacramento. That is far fetched too. The only way this works out is if Kawhi plays ball which is what the Spurs I am sure are trying to make happen right now.

Philly getting Kawhi makes them conference favorites, instantly. They would have Embiid, who Boston has NO answer for, Kawhi and Simmons, who is better than BOTH of Boston's young wing players. That's not even factoring in the possibility of LeBron.

[SpursDynasty85]

Philly getting Kawhi makes them conference favorites, instantly. They would have Embiid, who Boston has NO answer for, Kawhi and Simmons, who is better than BOTH of Boston's young wing players. That's not even factoring in the possibility of LeBron.

It's arguable if that line up is better than, Rozier, Kyrie, Brown, Tatum, Hayward, Horford. VERY Arguable. Any indication from sources Philly actually gives up Fultz, 1st rounder, Robert Covington, for a 1-yr lease too? I didn't think so.

[mo7888]

Kings 2019 pick is protected, and if they win the lottery, you wind up with Philly's pick, likely in the 20s, since they'll be a playoff team and then some.

Miami's unprotected pick is rare. Those almost never come on to the market. Riley should be fired for trading it like that, and for having a cap sheet that is such a fucking mess. In 2019-2020, they will have SEVEN players pulling 8 figure salaries, only one other contract, and they're already at $118M, with roster spots yet to fill. None of those players are stars, and with their salaries, no one will want them. Several of them have player options, but looking at them, and a cap that is either stagnant, or growing very slowly, I can't see any of them opting out.

See for yourself: https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/MIA.html

I wonder if Sacramento could be included on the deal and given an asset for giving up that protection? If not, I'd want the Memphis pick added to mitigate the risk.

[DPG21920]

Waiting for Shams to drop the “SA and Kawhi are nearing an agreement” tweet Sunday

[DPG21920]

I truly hope SA gets a great offer early in free agency. Make your move and have enough time in free agency to build with life after Kawhi.

[exstatic]

I wonder if Sacramento could be included on the deal and given an asset for giving up that protection? If not, I'd want the Memphis pick added to mitigate the risk.

I think Philly added the protection when they flipped it in the Fultz/Tatum trade.

[bklynspursfan]

When you ask a player to opt out so that you can create cap room, there is usually a sweetener involved. They don't HAVE to do what you want. If you reach an understanding, your plans fall through (thanks, CP3), and you backtrack and screw them over, no player will ever opt out for you again.

He only really got one extra year, plus $6M that can be stretched out over the following 3 years, or eaten in one chunk, whatever works best at the time.

I can't for the life of me understand how people here still don't get that....

[exstatic]

It's arguable if that line up is better than, Rozier, Kyrie, Brown, Tatum, Hayward, Horford. VERY Arguable. Any indication from sources Philly actually gives up Fultz, 1st rounder, Robert Covington, for a 1-yr lease too? I didn't think so.

Two PGs, three SFs, and a PF. Embiid would feast on that.

Yes, Phoenix essentially traded Dragic straight up for Bridges. All of this goes to show how massive Miami’s 2021 pick could prove for the Sixers’ efforts in acquiring Kawhi Leonard this offseason, with whom Brown has a deep relationship after winning the 2014 NBA title together in San Antonio. “How do you acquire things that can attract stars and develop stars?” Brown told reporters Thursday. “That pick might be the key to all of this. That pick might be the thing that links a possible trade.”

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/06/23/mikal-bridges-zhaire-smith-donte-divincenzo-draft-trade-sixers-suns-bucks-pacers-hawks

[marinoman]

Jabari young was the guy who said it was a good meeting but more dialogue is needed but he’s the same guy who said spurs and kawhi are close to an extension I think two days before he said he wants out. A good meeting to him maybe kawhi staying firm with la or bust so Jabari can be kawhis windhorst

[CGD]

Fultz, Saric, Bolden Rights, and 2021 pick gets it done now.

[r0drig0lac]

It's arguable if that line up is better than, Rozier, Kyrie, Brown, Tatum, Hayward, Horford. VERY Arguable. Any indication from sources Philly actually gives up Fultz, 1st rounder, Robert Covington, for a 1-yr lease too? I didn't think so.

celtics would not win any game against this team under normal conditions tbh

[baseline bum]

God Jaylen Brown is so overrated. Dude has a player efficiency rating like one point above Parker and motherfuckers here want to act like he's the guy you rebuild the franchise around.

[baseline bum]

Jabari young was the guy who said it was a good meeting but more dialogue is needed but he’s the same guy who said spurs and kawhi are close to an extension I think two days before he said he wants out. A good meeting to him maybe kawhi staying firm with la or bust so Jabari can be kawhis windhorst

I think that was WOAI's sorry ass reporting Leonard and the Spurs were close to signing a supermax extension.

[spurraider21]

God Jaylen Brown is so overrated. Dude has a player efficiency rating like one point above Parker and motherfuckers here want to act like he's the guy you rebuild the franchise around.
he's still 21, is a great athlete, and showed a lot of growth from year 1 to year 2, and improved as the season went along. he also comes with deep playoff experience and shown the ability to play within a system...

[MoSpur02]

God Jaylen Brown is so overrated. Dude has a player efficiency rating like one point above Parker and motherfuckers here want to act like he's the guy you rebuild the franchise around.

Why I prefer Tatum and if I'm R.C and Pop, I'm not trading Kawhi unless Tatum is included

[exstatic]

Fultz, Saric, Bolden Rights, and 2021 pick gets it done now.

Yeah, the only way I take Covington's horrible deal is if Simmons comes with it. He's flat awful. He has three SEASONS where he shot less than 40% OVERALL from the field. Only in his 7 game debut season with Houston did he have a season where his PER was even league average 15.0. He has like 4/$47M left to be paid. DO NOT WANT.

[baseline bum]

Why I prefer Tatum and if I'm R.C and Pop, I'm not trading Kawhi unless Tatum is included

I wouldn't trade him to Boston without getting Tatum. I'd tell Ainge Kawhi is going to Philly if he doesn't give Tatum and you gotta be willing to follow through with a threat like that. I would since Saric vs Brown is a wash, as is Miami pick vs Sacramento pick, while Fultz is a high risk high reward gamble.

[SpursDynasty85]

I can't for the life of me understand how people here still don't get that....

True. Some posters think the extension came out of thin air. It still didnt look like the right deal to make.

[Mr. Body]

God Jaylen Brown is so overrated. Dude has a player efficiency rating like one point above Parker and motherfuckers here want to act like he's the guy you rebuild the franchise around.

Boston players are always overrated. Brown and Tatum stepped up when their best players were out, but they do have a freakishly good coach, plus no one has stated game planning for them.

[SpursDynasty85]

celtics would not win any game against this team under normal conditions tbh

Ok. So celtics beat the Sixers without Kyrie or Hayward. They add Kyrie Hayward. Sixers lose Saric and Covington and add Kawhi all of a sudden they sweep Celtics? Lol. Ok.

[baseline bum]

Boston players are always overrated. Brown and Tatum stepped up when their best players were out, but they do have a freakishly good coach, plus no one has stated game planning for them.

I agree. Tatum is nowhere close to getting value for Kawhi. But he's the only one I see who has a reasonable shot at being an A-level player. But even in that system and with all the hype he still isn't as good as rookie Kawhi was.

[BackHome]

I like the way you think B.B. :toast

[exstatic]

Ok. So celtics beat the Sixers without Kyrie or Hayward. They add Kyrie Hayward. Sixers lose Saric and Covington and add Kawhi all of a sudden they sweep Celtics? Lol. Ok.

They have NO ANSWER for Embiid. He'd probably average 35/20 in a series. They have NO ANSWER for Kawhi.

[marinoman]

I think that was WOAI's sorry ass reporting Leonard and the Spurs were close to signing a supermax extension.
Yea I think you’re right. He was the one who wrote this bs that got me excited

1007466991337209857

[baseline bum]

he's still 21, is a great athlete, and showed a lot of growth from year 1 to year 2, and improved as the season went along. he also comes with deep playoff experience and shown the ability to play within a system...

So he went from total bust to below average player in a year while playing in arguably the best system in the league. Kind of hard to get excited about that as a centerpiece in a deal for a Hall of Famer.

[Marcus Bryant]

So he went from total bust to below average player in a year while playing in arguably the best system in the league. Kind of hard to get excited about that as a centerpiece in a deal for a Hall of Famer.

Tatum or Simmons. Throw in your best draft pick and we'll take back a bad contract.

[Mr. Body]

I agree. Tatum is nowhere close to getting value for Kawhi. But he's the only one I see who has a reasonable shot at being an A-level player. But even in that system and with all the hype he still isn't as good as rookie Kawhi was.

I mean, of course you include Tatum in a trade if it means netting you a healthy Kawhi. Kawhi is close to a generational talent, someone who can rule a game on the defensive end as a wing and has freakish efficiency as a scorer. But Ainge's ass is tighter than Cameron from Ferris Bueller's Day Off and he's going to overrate who he has until his team stagnates.

[Gordy58]

Peter Vecsey: “Kawhi listened to the Spurs doctor. Did everything he was told. But when he went back to play his knee began to hurt from the stress. He was scared about blowing it out. He saw what happened to Isaiah Thomas when he played in pain for Boston in the playoffs. He got reduced to damaged goods. As a free agent this summer, he’ll never recoup the $50M-$100M he lost by deciding to play. “The Spurs knew the quad was only 70 percent,” insists my source. “Kawhi got good advice, advice anybody would give their son in the same situation, see an independent doctor.” (https://www.patreon.com/posts/real-story-about-19684172)
3 hours ago (https://hoopshype.com/rumor/1191554/) – via Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/posts/real-story-about-19684172)

[Gordy58]

Peter Vecsey: Elsewhere, someone closely affiliated with Leonard’s advisers found Bowen’s words as deeply disturbing as I did. Hold on! Let’s take a time out! Why is everyone so angry with Kawhi? “Kawhi Leonard is innocent,” my source declares. “He should be commended. He did what you would teach every family member to do, keep family business behind closed doors. He didn’t even talk about differences with the organization to teammates. That’s REALLY commendable (https://www.patreon.com/posts/real-story-about-19684172).
3 hours ago (https://hoopshype.com/rumor/1191555/) – via Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/posts/real-story-about-19684172)

[Marcus Bryant]

Ah, Vescey.

[Gordy58]

Peter Vecsey: Afterthought: Many believe Leonard’s reps are happy with hostilities so he’ll be traded to a big market. That’s unequivocally untrue, asserts my source. “We all think he’s better off in San Antonio. (https://www.patreon.com/posts/real-story-about-19684172)We’d all like to see him stay. But he’s the offended party. It’s his decision. Kawhi’s pulling all the levers.”
3 hours ago (https://hoopshype.com/rumor/1191556/) – via Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/posts/real-story-about-19684172)

[Gordy58]

Peter Vecsey: Despite the fact Kawhi feels like the organization treated him like he cheated, despite all of the above, inexplicably, according to the source, he likes Pop. Does that mean the relationship can be rekindled? “If Pop admits to fucking things up, concedes mistakes were made, there’s a chance that could happen,” the source says. “It’d be an intensely emotional conversation. (https://www.patreon.com/posts/real-story-about-19684172) Kawhi doesn’t give a fuck about the money he’ll lose. He feels he can do what he wants. He has stability and stature now. He’s found his voice. If he doesn’t like you, and doesn’t like the way he’s being treated, he’ll find a team that’ll treat him with respect.
3 hours ago (https://hoopshype.com/rumor/1191557/) – via Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/posts/real-story-about-19684172)

[Gordy58]

Peter Vecsey: Now what? “Emotionally, Kawhi has checked out of the Spurs. He wants the Lakers, even though it means forfeiting $80 million. Everyone is shocked he’d give up that much money. But when it’s emotional, there’s no logic,” said the source (https://www.patreon.com/posts/real-story-about-19684172). “He’s an artist. When artists know they’re getting jerked, they want out no matter what the cost. He feels the organization didn’t even try to wrap its arms around him. You don’t know anyone until you go through something difficult. Kawhi got to see people’s true colors.
3 hours ago (https://hoopshype.com/rumor/1191558/) – via Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/posts/real-story-about-19684172)

[spurraider21]

So he went from total bust to below average player in a year while playing in arguably the best system in the league. Kind of hard to get excited about that as a centerpiece in a deal for a Hall of Famer.
in what universe was he a below average player this year?

[spurraider21]

Peter Vecsey: Now what? “Emotionally, Kawhi has checked out of the Spurs. He wants the Lakers, even though it means forfeiting $80 million. Everyone is shocked he’d give up that much money. But when it’s emotional, there’s no logic,” said the source (https://www.patreon.com/posts/real-story-about-19684172). “He’s an artist. When artists know they’re getting jerked, they want out no matter what the cost. He feels the organization didn’t even try to wrap its arms around him. You don’t know anyone until you go through something difficult. Kawhi got to see people’s true colors.
3 hours ago (https://hoopshype.com/rumor/1191558/) – via Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/posts/real-story-about-19684172)
artist or autist?

[baseline bum]

in what universe was he a below average player this year?

This one where his PER was 0.9 points above scrub ass Parker.

[spurraider21]

This one where his PER was 0.9 points above scrub ass Parker.
:lol PER

a metric that decides your defensive ability by steals and blocks exclusively :lol

[Pavlov]

He’s found his voice. He should talk publicly then.

[Mugen]

I'd rank Ingram and Brown in the same tier with Saric a tier below tbh.

[objective]

:lol @ Vecsey's crap.

Not saying he's lying, just that if he really does have a 'source' saying all that, his source sounds like an idiot.

"Kawhi was betrayed! He can't trust the Spurs! They did him wrong! .... But we think the Spurs are the best place for him, honest! Did we mention that Kawhi is pulling all the strings? He's totally not a puppet, guys."

[SpursDynasty85]

He should talk publicly then.

Nah. He should talk with the Spurs behind close doors and with his teammates in the locker rooms and practice.

[cool cat]

Peter Vecsey: Despite the fact Kawhi feels like the organization treated him like he cheated, despite all of the above, inexplicably, according to the source, he likes Pop. Does that mean the relationship can be rekindled? “If Pop admits to fucking things up, concedes mistakes were made, there’s a chance that could happen,” the source says. “It’d be an intensely emotional conversation. (https://www.patreon.com/posts/real-story-about-19684172) Kawhi doesn’t give a fuck about the money he’ll lose. He feels he can do what he wants. He has stability and stature now. He’s found his voice. If he doesn’t like you, and doesn’t like the way he’s being treated, he’ll find a team that’ll treat him with respect.
3 hours ago (https://hoopshype.com/rumor/1191557/) – via Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/posts/real-story-about-19684172)

"he’ll find a team that’ll treat him with respect." Bull Shit, he wants the Lakers not a team that respects him.

[cd98]

I would have thought Peter was banned from twitter and journalism in general.

[Marcus Bryant]

So basically Uncle Dennis is telling Vescey that if the Spurs give his nephew $220 mil and an apology that all will be well.

[objective]

He should talk publicly then.

Everyone who finds their voice runs off and hides the last half of a season and abandons the team during the playoffs.

The only time anyone has heard his voice was when he ordered a Dodger Dog.

[Mugen]

:lol source is probably Ahmad Rashad. It's 2018, nobody's talking to fucking Peter Vecsey

[BatManu20]

Peter Vecsey: Afterthought: Many believe Leonard’s reps are happy with hostilities so he’ll be traded to a big market. That’s unequivocally untrue, asserts my source. “We all think he’s better off in San Antonio. (https://www.patreon.com/posts/real-story-about-19684172)We’d all like to see him stay. But he’s the offended party. It’s his decision. Kawhi’s pulling all the levers.”
3 hours ago (https://hoopshype.com/rumor/1191556/) – via Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/posts/real-story-about-19684172)






Yeaaaa not buying this shit. Parker made his remark in late March and Pop made his “You’ll have to ask Kawhi’s camp that” in April. Both Stephen A. Smith and Jalen Rose reported in JANUARY that they were hearing Kawhi wanted out of San Antonio. Months before any comments were made.

And now Kawhi suddenly wants to be in SA but is just “too heartbroken?” And instead of saying he wants a trade, he says he wants a trade to ONLY the Lakers? Get real.

[baseline bum]

:lol PER

a metric that decides your defensive ability by steals and blocks exclusively :lol

And rebounds. What kind of player do you see Brown being in five years?

[Marcus Bryant]

The supermax averages $45 mil/year for 5 years. That would start for Leonard at age 29.

[baseline bum]

:lol source is probably Ahmad Rashad. It's 2018, nobody's talking to fucking Peter Vecsey

No one ever talked to that dumbass. I'll still never forget him reporting Prime Grant Hill was signing here for the mid level exception back when the MLE was like $1.2 million. Then a couple of days later he reported Prime Grant Hill would sign with Philly to play with Iverson. The only good thing Vescey ever did was that hilarious interview where he kept on shitting on Karl Malone after he blew the 97 Finals.

[Marcus Bryant]

:lol source is probably Ahmad Rashad. It's 2018, nobody's talking to fucking Peter Vecsey

Uncle Dennis strikes me as someone who would think talking with Vescey is a big deal.

[K...]

Vesceys source is probably kathis sister, based on the emotional style. Uncle Dennis isn't one to care about emotions

[spurraider21]

And rebounds.
a great defensive guard will rebound worse than a shitty defensive center. its an awful stat.

i think brown can be a really good #2 player. he's always been a great athlete and his jump shot really came around last year. i see him being one of the better defensive guards in the league who is also a 20+ppg guy

[Extra Stout]

I’m having a hard time keeping up here, so let me get this straight: Kawhi is worried about becoming the next Isaiah Thomas because Thomas lost $50-$100M by playing hurt, but Kawhi is totally fine with giving up $80 million to play in LA. Because he is an artist who has found his voice.

Uncle Dennis is really not very good at this.

[CitizenDwayne]

Brown’s 21 years old, for Pete’s sake. No one’s calling him the second coming of Jordan but he has shown flashes of brilliance and has a ton of potential

[look_at_g_shred]

I’m having a hard time keeping up here, so let me get this straight: Kawhi is worried about becoming the next Isaiah Thomas because Thomas lost $50-$100M by playing hurt, but Kawhi is totally fine with giving up $80 million to play in LA. Because he is an artist who has found his voice.

Uncle Dennis is really not very good at this.
:lmao

[BackHome]

The Trade Will Happen When We Hit Page 212.

[Mugen]

I refused to believe that the "group" that turned down the Jordan deal, is headed by a guy trying to start up his own agency, and includes an agent with no other notable NBA clients besides Jeff Ayres doesn't give a fuck about 80+ mil :lol

[Pavlov]

I’m having a hard time keeping up here, so let me get this straight: Kawhi is worried about becoming the next Isaiah Thomas because Thomas lost $50-$100M by playing hurt, but Kawhi is totally fine with giving up $80 million to play in LA. Because he is an artist who has found his voice.

Uncle Dennis is really not very good at this.And he's angry at the Spurs for letting him try to play then letting him take the rest of the year off.

Makes perfect sense.

[Extra Stout]

He simultaneously cares and does not care about the money. Open the box and see what happens! He’s Schrodinger’s Mute.

[Mugen]

No one ever talked to that dumbass. I'll still never forget him reporting Prime Grant Hill was signing here for the mid level exception back when the MLE was like $1.2 million. Then a couple of days later he reported Prime Grant Hill would sign with Philly to play with Iverson. The only good thing Vescey ever did was that hilarious interview where he kept on shitting on Karl Malone after he blew the 97 Finals.

crofl, never knew that.


Uncle Dennis strikes me as someone who would think talking with Vescey is a big deal.

:lol good point

[baseline bum]

a great defensive guard will rebound worse than a shitty defensive center. its an awful stat.

i think brown can be a really good #2 player. he's always been a great athlete and his jump shot really came around last year. i see him being one of the better defensive guards in the league who is also a 20+ppg guy

I think Brown's going to end up a really overpaid #2 or #3 player considering he'll be likely to cost a max contract. I could see him putting up 20 ppg the same way Antoine Carr did in Sacramento.

[baseline bum]

He simultaneously cares and does not care about the money. Open the box and see what happens! He’s Schrodinger’s Mute.

:lmao

[baseline bum]

I refused to believe that the "group" that turned down the Jordan deal, is headed by a guy trying to start up his own agency, and includes an agent with no other notable NBA clients besides Jeff Ayres doesn't give a fuck about 80+ mil :lol

Good point :lol

How many yuan is Ayres going to make them?

[dbestpro]

Make Leonard stay for the season. You lose him as a free agent, but then you can turn around and sign another free agent like Tobias Harris or Klay Thompson or use your cap space to take on contracts with draft picks. Bottom line is that you do not have to trade Leonard to get value back and you can force him to put that Spurs jersey on for one more season. If the Spurs are willing to play their cards to this extent then they are the ones who remain in control.

[cd98]

I feel like I could get along with anyone for an additional $80 million.

[objective]

I’m having a hard time keeping up here, so let me get this straight: Kawhi is worried about becoming the next Isaiah Thomas because Thomas lost $50-$100M by playing hurt, but Kawhi is totally fine with giving up $80 million to play in LA. Because he is an artist who has found his voice.

Uncle Dennis is really not very good at this.

Exactly.

It's so stupid.

Kawhi can't risk serious injury, he can't be Isaih Thomas who played through everything!

But the Spurs let him go do his own rehab and abandon the team and take the year off. They cleared him to play but didn't force him even though they could have done so or suspended him.

So that's THE OPPOSITE of Isaih.

But Kawhi is the master lever puller now. :lol

[Marcus Bryant]

He simultaneously cares and does not care about the money. Open the box and see what happens! He’s Schrodinger’s Mute.

:tu

[objective]

I think Brown's going to end up a really overpaid #2 or #3 player considering he'll be likely to cost a max contract. I could see him putting up 20 ppg the same way Antoine Carr did in Sacramento.

Harrison Barnes puts up good numbers on a max deal. I could see a similar career for Brown.

Of course, Barnes is maybe the third best player on the Mavs. Spurs don't have a Doncic to build around.

[baseline bum]

Harrison Barnes puts up good numbers on a max deal. I could see a similar career for Brown.

Of course, Barnes is maybe the third best player on the Mavs. Spurs don't have a Doncic to build around.

They'll also be picking top 5 before long if Jaylen Brown is the centerpiece of the Kawhi deal.

[cool cat]

Peter Vecsey: “Kawhi listened to the Spurs doctor. Did everything he was told. But when he went back to play his knee began to hurt from the stress. He was scared about blowing it out. He saw what happened to Isaiah Thomas when he played in pain for Boston in the playoffs. He got reduced to damaged goods. As a free agent this summer, he’ll never recoup the $50M-$100M he lost by deciding to play. “The Spurs knew the quad was only 70 percent,” insists my source. “Kawhi got good advice, advice anybody would give their son in the same situation, see an independent doctor.” (https://www.patreon.com/posts/real-story-about-19684172)
3 hours ago (https://hoopshype.com/rumor/1191554/) – via Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/posts/real-story-about-19684172)

We know now this is the fake news version of events. Kawhi had a nagging injury during 16-17 season and under the Spurs doctors he played the most games of his career and had a MVP caliber season.

Him and his group decided to use their own doctors in Aug 2017, two months later he couldn't even walk to get on an airplane.

As for the IT thing I just don't see it. IT came back right before Leonard played his last game, you couldn't make a judgement call at that time about how IT season was going to turn out.

[ducks]

Rc said mistakes were made on both sides already

[Marcus Bryant]

If only Pop sits down and gets intensely emotional with the young artist (and gives him eleventy billion dollars) might this be resolved.

[cool cat]

I’m having a hard time keeping up here, so let me get this straight: Kawhi is worried about becoming the next Isaiah Thomas because Thomas lost $50-$100M by playing hurt, but Kawhi is totally fine with giving up $80 million to play in LA. Because he is an artist who has found his voice.

Uncle Dennis is really not very good at this.

Yes, +1. :toast

[BatManu20]

There’s zero chance Ainge is moving Tatum, with 4 years remaining on his cheap Rookie deal, for potentially only 1-year of Kawhi imo. No way. Even if it means Kawhi going to Philly, I don’t think Ainge caves.

Any deal would revolve around Brown + Morris (to match salaries) + Kings pick (Top 1 protected in 2019) + Memphis pick (top 8 protected in 2019; Top 6 protected in 2020; Unprotected in 2021).

[RD2191]

PATFO fucked up. Told y'all niggas.

[ducks]

Leonard if he stays wants a long deal before he will play otherwise he will not be a spur

[ducks]

PATFO fucked up. Told y'all niggas.

Both have fucked up

[MoSpur02]

I’m having a hard time keeping up here, so let me get this straight: Kawhi is worried about becoming the next Isaiah Thomas because Thomas lost $50-$100M by playing hurt, but Kawhi is totally fine with giving up $80 million to play in LA. Because he is an artist who has found his voice.

Uncle Dennis is really not very good at this.

Exactly. However, it's a "trust" issue. Not about the money. *sarcasm

[Mugen]

There’s zero chance Ainge is moving Tatum, with 4 years remaining on his cheap Rookie deal, for potentially only 1-year of Kawhi imo. No way. Even if it means Kawhi going to Philly, I don’t think Ainge caves.

Any deal would revolve around Brown + Morris (to match salaries) + Kings pick (Top 1 protected in 2019) + Memphis pick (top 8 protected in 2019; Top 6 protected in 2020; Unprotected in 2021).

I'd take that deal easily over a Sixers package.

[Marcus Bryant]

Leonard back and recommitted gives you an outside shot at a championship over the next couple of seasons (unless Pop is Bill Snyder he's not going to coach past that). Focus on winning now and put off any rebuild until later.

Otherwise you see what you can get for Leonard in a trade with an eye towards rebuilding now and setting the table for Pop's successor. You avoid making that tremendous financial commitment to a perimeter player which you'll have to pay out over the down slope of his career.

[Chawaman]

Rc said mistakes were made on both sides already

I might be taking this literally, but after pop and Leonard meeting. Jabari said the meeting was described as good and will have dialogue in the future. While anything can change, could this mean that they are starting to talk it out. Possibly leonards side has admitted they might have done things wrong as well?

[Marcus Bryant]

Pop's heading up USA Basketball, his wife just passed, how much does he want to really deal with this moving forward? As good a time as any to hand things over to Becky.

[coachmac87]

Yeaaaa not buying this shit. Parker made his remark in late March and Pop made his “You’ll have to ask Kawhi’s camp that” in April. Both Stephen A. Smith and Jalen Rose reported in JANUARY that they were hearing Kawhi wanted out of San Antonio. Months before any comments were made.

And now Kawhi suddenly wants to be in SA but is just “too heartbroken?” And instead of saying he wants a trade, he says he wants a trade to ONLY the Lakers? Get real.

Boom. Tried to explain this to Kawhi step cousin YGHI...

It’s damage control at its finest in which make the Spurs look bad so the media won’t call him a quitter for leaving a team that won 60 games when he played..

Spurs reps and players saw through it and wasn’t gonna get punked despite them “ loving” Kawhi..it’s the principle

[RD2191]

Pop's heading up USA Basketball, his wife just passed, how much does he want to really deal with this moving forward? As good a time as any to hand things over to Becky.

:lol

[picnroll]

Boom. Tried to explain this to Kawhi step cousin YGHI...

It’s damage control at its finest in which make the Spurs look bad so the media won’t call him a quitter for leaving a team that won 60 games when he played..

Spurs reps and players saw through it and wasn’t gonna get punked despite them “ loving” Kawhi..it’s the principle

This. All the fools buying into Uncle Dennis half ass narrative never explain how the connection of the Spurs’s mistreatment of poor little Kawhi by mean old Bruce and Tony ties into only going to the Lakers. Dumb asses to stupid to see uncle Dennis agenda and incredibly lame excuses role out over time as planned to try to justify it.

[DPG21920]

I'd take that deal easily over a Sixers package.

Duh lol

[Mugen]

Pop's heading up USA Basketball, his wife just passed, how much does he want to really deal with this moving forward? As good a time as any to hand things over to Becky.

http://p.fod4.com/p/media/5c597eb60b/uF9MjJo3QIaijySXC4iL_Confused%20Christian%20Bale.g if

[DPG21920]

I don’t even want to imagine what the nba world will do if Kawhi stays with SA :lol. I mean, I will be happy that our team will be very good, but if all this was just some crazy out of control posturing for a large contract??

This would be one of the nastiest, dirtiest and all time bat sh*t crazy negotiations I can remember in the nba. I am mega pissed at Kawhi and while I will obviously be happy for SA I will forever look at him as a person differently. I will still root for him/the team but man it will be like being in a marriage with someone who not just cheated on you but cheated with your biggest rival :lol

[TD 21]

The only role the Magic could conceivably play in this, is as a 3rd team to take on Fultz. Isaac is a good prospect, but lacks go to scoring ability. '19 is supposedly a weak draft, but would they give up lightly (top 1-2) protected 1st? Would Spurs settle for that, Heat '21 1st and Covington, as the key pieces?


I'd rather tank than try to make trash pretty.

:lol


Tank, so you can hope to get a high pick(s) and land a comparable prospect. Sure fire superstars usually come along something like once every half decade. Suffice it to say, the odds of getting them are slim. It's also highly unlikely this organization would be amendable to that.


To be clear, I don't think people are writing him off--I am certainly not. What I am doing, however, is starting i don't think he's worth the risk. Especially given the Spurs tenuous season and potential to have this thing unravel on us in any number of ways. If he comes over and it turns into a psychological roller coaster, that just might be the thing that officially ends the Spurs run. Although at present, I think we might have already had the death blow from Kawhi, that lousy asshat.

Don't get me wrong. It's not a risk anyone would ideally want to take, but again, if push comes to shove and they can't get Brown, then what? If it drags on and no extension is signed, at some point between October 17th and February 7th, they're going to have to take the best offer they can get.



That's the cover story.


Yes, he's working on his shot and has been.

But camp doesn't open for 3 months and he can't risk taking 5 days against mostly g-league caliber players in exhibition settings? Exactly what kind of catastrophic result are they so afraid of? What if he actually shot well and catapulted his value up and started great buzz going into next year?

But apparently the danger to his mind is so incredible that it out weighs the benefits of him playing well.

Or he could have another setback and they could be one step closer to doing permanent psychological damage. Call if what you like, but if someone had a mental block and is now supposedly making progress, I don't think it's wise to risk halting that over a handful of meaningless games.



No he doesn't. He's slow and can't shoot.

:lmao Ginobili, Harden, Evans, etc., aren't exactly blurs with the ball, yet never had any trouble breaking down the defense and making plays. If you have skill, IQ and size, you don't need to be Parker, Westbrook, Wall, etc. Fultz has that combination. If he gets so much as a reasonably respectable shot again, his floor is probably Evans and his ceiling is probably Wall.

[objective]

I don’t even want to imagine what the nba world will do if Kawhi stays with SA :lol. I mean, I will be happy that our team will be very good, but if all this was just some crazy out of control posturing for a large contract??

This would be one of the nastiest, dirtiest and all time bat sh*t crazy negotiations I can remember in the nba. I am mega pissed at Kawhi and while I will obviously be happy for SA I will forever look at him as a person differently. I will still root for him/the team but man it will be like being in a marriage with someone who not just cheated on you but cheated with your biggest rival :lol

If he comes back I'll still root for him but I'll smile knowing his handlers won't have easy access to him in LA to suck his blood.

[objective]

[LEFT][COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana]

Or he could have another setback and they could be one step closer to doing permanent psychological damage. Call if what you like, but if someone had a mental block and is now supposedly making progress, I don't think it's wise to risk halting that over a handful of meaningless games.


thank you, that's been my entire point. He's a headcase at risk of bizarre psych damage. All at risk with exhibition games against scrubs.

This whole, "Oh, he's skipping summer league to get his shot better" is the cover story, the underneath story is, "If he goes out and lays bricks or is scared to shoot against the Arcidiaconos and G-League nobodies in games that don't matter, he might never be salvageable."

That's a big damn difference. He can't be risked to play against an Arcidiacono or he'll never play again, wonderful.

Trading one headcase with older mentor issues and exaggerated injuries for another bigger headcase with older mentor issues and exaggerated injuries is just one headache too far.

[daslicer]

I don’t even want to imagine what the nba world will do if Kawhi stays with SA :lol. I mean, I will be happy that our team will be very good, but if all this was just some crazy out of control posturing for a large contract??

This would be one of the nastiest, dirtiest and all time bat sh*t crazy negotiations I can remember in the nba. I am mega pissed at Kawhi and while I will obviously be happy for SA I will forever look at him as a person differently. I will still root for him/the team but man it will be like being in a marriage with someone who not just cheated on you but cheated with your biggest rival :lol

I think the media would hate Kawhi more than anybody if he ends up staying with the Spurs.

[ducks]

Pop's heading up USA Basketball, his wife just passed, how much does he want to really deal with this moving forward? As good a time as any to hand things over to Becky.

Yes Becky better then pop

[polandprzem]

Yes Becky better then pop

You putted them in battery of tests ?

[cool cat]

Yeaaaa not buying this shit. Parker made his remark in late March and Pop made his “You’ll have to ask Kawhi’s camp that” in April. Both Stephen A. Smith and Jalen Rose reported in JANUARY that they were hearing Kawhi wanted out of San Antonio. Months before any comments were made.

And now Kawhi suddenly wants to be in SA but is just “too heartbroken?” And instead of saying he wants a trade, he says he wants a trade to ONLY the Lakers? Get real.

Yep and the original reason we got is he wanted out because SA couldn't bring in top talent.

[TD 21]

thank you, that's been my entire point. He's a headcase at risk of bizarre psych damage. All at risk with exhibition games against scrubs.

This whole, "Oh, he's skipping summer league to get his shot better" is the cover story, the underneath story is, "If he goes out and lays bricks or is scared to shoot against the Arcidiaconos and G-League nobodies in games that don't matter, he might never be salvageable."

That's a big damn difference. He can't be risked to play against an Arcidiacono or he'll never play again, wonderful.

Trading one headcase with older mentor issues and exaggerated injuries for another bigger headcase with older mentor issues and exaggerated injuries is just one headache too far.

Okay, so what's the plan? Lose Leonard for nothing because you don't want to pay 99% of players significant money (even though every team needs to spend to at least 90% of the cap), tank and hope to land the next sure fire superstar? Even if they do, the Pelicans landed the last one and have proceeded to do nothing of note in 6 years.

Free agency? They couldn't appeal to superstars and stars at their peak, so they damn sure won't following the Aldridge fiasco and Leonard saga and as a re-building team.

[Spurs da champs]

I don’t even want to imagine what the nba world will do if Kawhi stays with SA :lol. I mean, I will be happy that our team will be very good, but if all this was just some crazy out of control posturing for a large contract??

This would be one of the nastiest, dirtiest and all time bat sh*t crazy negotiations I can remember in the nba. I am mega pissed at Kawhi and while I will obviously be happy for SA I will forever look at him as a person differently. I will still root for him/the team but man it will be like being in a marriage with someone who not just cheated on you but cheated with your biggest rival :lol

ESPN would self destruct.

[sasaint]

Pop's heading up USA Basketball, his wife just passed, how much does he want to really deal with this moving forward? As good a time as any to hand things over to Becky.

If Pop were going to step aside this off-season, he would have done so already.

[sasaint]

Leonard back and recommitted gives you an outside shot at a championship over the next couple of seasons (unless Pop is Bill Snyder he's not going to coach past that). Focus on winning now and put off any rebuild until later.

Otherwise you see what you can get for Leonard in a trade with an eye towards rebuilding now and setting the table for Pop's successor. You avoid making that tremendous financial commitment to a perimeter player which you'll have to pay out over the down slope of his career.

If Pop's successor is anywhere on the horizon, the team should move on from Pop and give said successor the opportunity to set his own table. Unless, contrary to many rumors, Pop could actually personally have the influence with Kawhi to induce him to stay, them I don't like the idea of letting PATFO have the opportunity to mold the team further in their image rather than bringing a new HC to mold the team in his/her image.

[K...]

I don't know if Kawhi had the social skills to regain leadership if he signs. His team has put most of the veterans in the cross hairs for their role in the standoff. There are just too many questions. Is he healthy, is he going to pout, can he mend fences.

So while it may make sense to stay with the Spurs it's an uphill climb if he does

[K...]

If Pop's successor is anywhere on the horizon, the team should move on from Pop and give said successor the opportunity to set his own table. Unless, contrary to many rumors, Pop could actually personally have the influence with Kawhi to induce him to stay, them I don't like the idea of letting PATFO have the opportunity to mold the team further in their image rather than bringing a new HC to mold the team in his/her image.

The p might change but who is arguing for afto? They'll either promote from within our pick someone to come back.

[SpursDynasty85]

The p might change but who is arguing for afto? They'll either promote from within our pick someone to come back.

Manu as assistant and Ettiore Messina as hc! Do it RC!

[sasaint]

The p might change but who is arguing for afto? They'll either promote from within our pick someone to come back.

So, you believe that the successor would just be a figurehead and PATFO would continue to call the shots? I am not sure whether Pop, in"moving on", would give up both of his positions/titles or just give up the HC job.

[objective]

Okay, so what's the plan? Lose Leonard for nothing because you don't want to pay 99% of players significant money (even though every team needs to spend to at least 90% of the cap), tank and hope to land the next sure fire superstar? Even if they do, the Pelicans landed the last one and have proceeded to do nothing of note in 6 years.

Free agency? They couldn't appeal to superstars and stars at their peak, so they damn sure won't following the Aldridge fiasco and Leonard saga and as a re-building team.

I'm fine tanking Leonard. I'm also fine paying him. If he ends up hurt, so what? They weren't winning with the other guys like Tobias Harris. But I'm still fine with tanking him the whole season.

My point is that people need to have their eyes open and recognize the truth of the supposed deals out there. Lots of people think that the Spurs will still contend as long as they 'get something' for Leonard, looking to guys like Fultz or Covington or Jaylen Brown.

Barring Lonnie Walker or Derrick White becoming Donovan Mitchell simultaneously with Milutinov becoming a poor man's Gobert (or a rekindling with Leonard), the Spurs are finished. Doesn't matter if it ends with a selling off of assets in a total rebuild or a long funk of mediocrity with a Tobias Harris or Fultz and Covington, it's over until the next superstar gets on the roster.

Turning to locking up the cap with Covington and Fultz et al is really just the bargaining phase of coming to terms with the death of the Spurs. At least recognize how Fultz isn't a sure thing to get the Spurs back in it, he has his own major problems that people are quick to gloss over. Could he become a superstar? Sure, so could Lonnie. Is it something to expect or count on? Considering his particular issues ... no. There is no trade that the Spurs won't lose. Unless it's really out there like Tatum+Brown+SAC1st+MEM1st et al. Barring that, the Spurs will be catastrophic losers while Kawhi is out winning.

And regarding the Pelicans doing nothing in the 6 years since drafting Davis ...

How about the 5+ years of the teams who traded 'franchise players' away? Denver sure has looked nice after Melo, locking up their cap with average to above average players in Gallinari and Chandler that they got back. Sure has been wonderful there, they were just in the lottery.

How about Orlando after Dwight? By 'getting something' for Dwight, they're still stuck paying Vucevic. He's done a great job getting them into the lottery.

[tim_duncan_fan]

The only role the Magic could conceivably play in this, is as a 3rd team to take on Fultz. Isaac is a good prospect, but lacks go to scoring ability. '19 is supposedly a weak draft, but would they give up lightly (top 1-2) protected 1st? Would Spurs settle for that, Heat '21 1st and Covington, as the key pieces?




Tank, so you can hope to get a high pick(s) and land a comparable prospect. Sure fire superstars usually come along something like once every half decade. Suffice it to say, the odds of getting them are slim. It's also highly unlikely this organization would be amendable to that.



Don't get me wrong. It's not a risk anyone would ideally want to take, but again, if push comes to shove and they can't get Brown, then what? If it drags on and no extension is signed, at some point between October 17th and February 7th, they're going to have to take the best offer they can get.




Or he could have another setback and they could be one step closer to doing permanent psychological damage. Call if what you like, but if someone had a mental block and is now supposedly making progress, I don't think it's wise to risk halting that over a handful of meaningless games.




:lmao Ginobili, Harden, Evans, etc., aren't exactly blurs with the ball, yet never had any trouble breaking down the defense and making plays. If you have skill, IQ and size, you don't need to be Parker, Westbrook, Wall, etc. Fultz has that combination. If he gets so much as a reasonably respectable shot again, his floor is probably Evans and his ceiling is probably Wall.




It's not gonna happen, bro.

Ginobili wouldn't have won a race with Westbrook, but he was never in life slow until like 4 years ago and even now he might be quicker with the release and just generally getting a shot off than Fultz is.

Spurs aren't trying to get Adam Morrisoned. That nigga is just not quick.

Plus, they are having to re-teach his shooting form...nope. it's a no for me dog. I didn't like him in the one game of his i saw. He looked slow of foot.

Also, there is nothing so about Harden. All youn need is a good first step and he's got that and then some and he's crafty. And his scoring is natural, aside from the gassed up free throw count. He's not out there being mechanical or literally thinking over his shot. There is no comparison to Fultz.

[toki9]

Peter Vecsey: “Kawhi listened to the Spurs doctor. Did everything he was told. But when he went back to play his knee began to hurt from the stress. He was scared about blowing it out. He saw what happened to Isaiah Thomas when he played in pain for Boston in the playoffs. He got reduced to damaged goods. As a free agent this summer, he’ll never recoup the $50M-$100M he lost by deciding to play. “The Spurs knew the quad was only 70 percent,” insists my source. “Kawhi got good advice, advice anybody would give their son in the same situation, see an independent doctor.” (https://www.patreon.com/posts/real-story-about-19684172)
3 hours ago (https://hoopshype.com/rumor/1191554/) – via Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/posts/real-story-about-19684172)

The problem with this version is that Kawhi got the second opinion in August and his group was in charge of rehab from that point on...so he never played on that knee in a game situation under Spurs' watch. The 9 games he played during the season were under the second doctor's watch, after which he went to a third doctor. I suppose he could be saying that Kawhi's knee hurt while he was training, i.e., before August, but then the quad was "only 70 percent" in July, months before the season--and just before he went on the China trip.

This kind of narrative shaping is just unnecessary (although I guess it's artistic in a way, given it's just spinning fiction at this point). If he wants to leave, he should just say that. Why throw the Spurs under the bus and try to drag PATFO's reputation through the mud like this?

[TD 21]

I'm fine tanking Leonard. I'm also fine paying him. If he ends up hurt, so what? They weren't winning with the other guys like Tobias Harris. But I'm still fine with tanking him the whole season.


My point is that people need to have their eyes open and recognize the truth of the supposed deals out there. Lots of people think that the Spurs will still contend as long as they 'get something' for Leonard, looking to guys like Fultz or Covington or Jaylen Brown.

Barring Lonnie Walker or Derrick White becoming Donovan Mitchell simultaneously with Milutinov becoming a poor man's Gobert (or a rekindling with Leonard), the Spurs are finished. Doesn't matter if it ends with a selling off of assets in a total rebuild or a long funk of mediocrity with a Tobias Harris or Fultz and Covington, it's over until the next superstar gets on the roster.

Turning to locking up the cap with Covington and Fultz et al is really just the bargaining phase of coming to terms with the death of the Spurs. At least recognize how Fultz isn't a sure thing to get the Spurs back in it, he has his own major problems that people are quick to gloss over. Could he become a superstar? Sure, so could Lonnie. Is it something to expect or count on? Considering his particular issues ... no. There is no trade that the Spurs won't lose. Unless it's really out there like Tatum+Brown+SAC1st+MEM1st et al. Barring that, the Spurs will be catastrophic losers while Kawhi is out winning.

And regarding the Pelicans doing nothing in the 6 years since drafting Davis ...

How about the 5+ years of the teams who traded 'franchise players' away? Denver sure has looked nice after Melo, locking up their cap with average to above average players in Gallinari and Chandler that they got back. Sure has been wonderful there, they were just in the lottery.

How about Orlando after Dwight? By 'getting something' for Dwight, they're still stuck paying Vucevic. He's done a great job getting them into the lottery.

I haven't heard one person say that. You need a lot of luck to be championship contenders in this league. Most owners are not on board with pulling a Hinkie to pursue it and I doubt the Spurs would be any different.

It's a nice thought and I used to think that way too, but it's just not realistic. By that logic, damn near 25 teams (non contender or superstar teams) at a given time shouldn't pay anyone significant money and should simultaneously tank in the hopes of lucking into the next O'Neal, Duncan, James, etc.

Everyone knows Fultz is far from a sure thing and no one has glossed over his issues. I'm just saying, it's too soon to call him a bust and it's possible he ends up being the highest upside player they can acquire. Comparing him to the likes of Gallinari, Chandler and Vucevic, is foolish. They never had the upside he does.

They're more than likely finished either way if it comes to a trade. Their only hope is getting a player like Brown or Fultz and a valuable pick and hoping between those 2 and Walker, 1 can become a superstar. Considering there's maybe 10 at a given time, it's highly unlikely, but I'll take 3 miniscule chances over 1.



It's not gonna happen, bro.

Ginobili wouldn't have won a race with Westbrook, but he was never in life slow until like 4 years ago and even now he might be quicker with the release and just generally getting a shot off than Fultz is.

Spurs aren't trying to get Adam Morrisoned. That nigga is just not quick.

Plus, they are having to re-teach his shooting form...nope. it's a no for me dog. I didn't like him in the one game of his i saw. He looked slow of foot.

Also, there is nothing so about Harden. All youn need is a good first step and he's got that and then some and he's crafty. And his scoring is natural, aside from the gassed up free throw count. He's not out there being mechanical or literally thinking over his shot. There is no comparison to Fultz.

Fultz isn't slow, he just doesn't have elite burst. Neither does Murray and unlike Fultz, he doesn't make up for it with a combination of size, skill and IQ. Fultz just needs at least a somewhat respectable shot to go with it.

It's a last resort for me, but it's one I'm absolutely taking if the alternative is nothing.

[BatManu20]

In other news... first trade of the offseason. Jerry West cleaning house. Signals DeAndre Jordan probably being traded too.


1011752172814589953

[toki9]

In other news... first trade of the offseason


1011752172814589953

Guess Doc will be sleeping on the couch for a while, thanks to the Logo.

[NASpurs]

Jerry West's like "fuck your dumbass son" :lol savage

[bdictjames]

In other news... first trade of the offseason


1011752172814589953
I guess the Wiz are unloading their team. Who's gonna be their starting center?

[NASpurs]

As for the Wizards, they're just making room to trade Kawhi for Beal. :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

Gortat isn't even close to a starter anymore, anyways..poor Bobi, though:lol

Rivers with Washington is a weird fit..they needed another guard, but still..

[Dverde]

God Jaylen Brown is so overrated. Dude has a player efficiency rating like one point above Parker and motherfuckers here want to act like he's the guy you rebuild the franchise around.

I think he’s good, solid NBA player. I can’t see Boston doing a deal for him. Ainge ain’t desperate enough for that.

[Spurs da champs]

Gortat isn't even close to a starter anymore, anyways..poor Bobi, though:lol

Rivers with Washington is a weird fit..they needed another guard, but still..

He and Wall are going to clash for sure.

[weebo]

I don’t even want to imagine what the nba world will do if Kawhi stays with SA :lol. I mean, I will be happy that our team will be very good, but if all this was just some crazy out of control posturing for a large contract??

This would be one of the nastiest, dirtiest and all time bat sh*t crazy negotiations I can remember in the nba. I am mega pissed at Kawhi and while I will obviously be happy for SA I will forever look at him as a person differently. I will still root for him/the team but man it will be like being in a marriage with someone who not just cheated on you but cheated with your biggest rival :lol

If he stayed and did well, I would never rain praise on him. If he sucked, I would trash him for sucking so bad.

[NASpurs]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/8u4zrk/shelburne_theres_a_growing_belief_around_the/

Found this thread on reddit interesting. Says that Shelburne is saying that Cousins wants to go to the Lakers. I’m assuming that the Lakers would be out of the Kawhi running especially if they sign Bron + PG while trading for Cousins.

[Leetonidas]

Cousins is damaged goods. No one has ever really came back the same after an Achilles injury. I hope the Lakers max his ass

[Mr. Body]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/8u4zrk/shelburne_theres_a_growing_belief_around_the/

Found this thread on reddit interesting. Says that Shelburne is saying that Cousins wants to go to the Lakers. I’m assuming that the Lakers would be out of the Kawhi running especially if they sign Bron + PG while trading for Cousins.

Lakers and ESPN collectively panicking.

Cousins to LA would be awesome. Guarantee another five years of outright mediocrity.

[Morgo]

Well Washington just traded their starting Center so maybe they are in play for Boogie?

[NASpurs]

Well Washington just traded their starting Center so maybe they are in play for Boogie?

1011765479948636160

[BillMc]

He simultaneously cares and does not care about the money. Open the box and see what happens! He’s Schrodinger’s Mute.
:lol

[objective]

1011765479948636160

Noel with Wall would make a lot of sense

[Mr. Body]

Noel with Wall would make a lot of sense

Wall is almost the only Kentucky guy to improve and make strides in his NBA career. The rest plateaued or stagnated.

[gambit1990]

Jerry West cleaning house. Signals DeAndre Jordan probably being traded too.
mavs should trade wesley matthews for deandre. it works straight up.

luka could get him easy buckets.

[CGD]

Wall is almost the only Kentucky guy to improve and make strides in his NBA career. The rest plateaued or stagnated.

Uh, Anthony Davis?

[cd021]

If it eventually comes to a trade and the Celtics play hardball with Brown, I probably would, too. Spurs would obviously have to do their due diligence first, but they should be able to get good intel from Brett Brown.

I'd prefer to wait until October 17th, though. That not only provides time to exhaust the reconciliation/super max extension possibility with Leonard, but preseason to gauge Fultz in game.

Think the 76ers offer will be Fultz, Covington, Heat unprotected '21 1st, Spurs option of swapping Mills-Bayless and choice of 2 minor pieces (Anderson, Luwawu-Cabarrot, Bolden, Pasecniks, 2nds). I believe the impetus of the Bridges-Smith swap, was so that the Heat pick could serve as one of the linchpins of their package instead of either Saric or Smith.


Murray could be offered to the Magic for 2 2nds. They have 4 in '19, 2 of which should be in the 30s.

Starters: Gay, Covington, Aldridge, Green, Fultz
Bench: Gasol, Parker, Anderson, White, Bertans, Walker
Deep bench: Milutinov, Forbes, 1 or 2 of 76ers "minor pieces"

Should keep Spurs in contention for playoffs short term, while simultaneously accelerating a re-build, which would probably be their goal.

I had the same thoughts regarding the Bridges for Zhaire Smith trade but apparently the Sun's were the aggressors on that deal and when they offered the Miami pick and Smith for Bridges, Philly accepted.

That pick could be really good, and as Nate Duncan mentioned, it could be an especially deep draft because it could be the last year of the 1 and done and the first year that prep to pro players are allowed to be drafted.

I would prefer for Murray and Fultz to play together; they'd be a good fit, in theory, Fultz is apparently a bad defender but an excellent shooter (if he ever regains his form) while Murray is an great defender who currently can't shoot. For the "Murray isn't a PG" crew, he'd be sharing playmaking responsibilities with Fultz in a theoretically backcourt.

Fultz, Covington, Miami' unprotected 2021 first rounder, Parsecniks, Anderson, and Bayless. for Kawhi and Mills.

-That is a solid haul, though the Spurs would probably be only be about as good as they were last year and that 2021 pick is three years away and there is a non zero chance that the Spurs might move that pick to move up in a draft of the really like a player.

The 76ers have a slew of seconds that probably mean little to them so I would at least ask for the 2019 Kings and/or Knicks second's (both probably in the 33-38 range) that they own, though, that might be a little too much.

PG-Fultz, Parker
SG-Murray, Manu?, White, Walker, Bayless*,
SF-Covington, Green, J. Anderson
PF- K. Anderson, Bertans
C-Aldridge Gasol, Militinov?, Metu?*,

*If roster spots would be an issue, Bayless could just be waived, his $8 million only goes through next year.

*Metu could sign directly with Austin, be a on a two-way deal, or sign with the big club in a 3 or 4 year deal.

If PG-13 stays in OKC then there could be a ripple effect; LeBron possibly crosses L.A off his list and only considers Cleveland and Philly, of he goes to Philly then all of a sudden Boston may become more aggressive in going after Kawhi.

Hayward, Brown and the Kings pick (I think there is a decent chance that that is a top five pick) for Kawhi and Gasol would be a very great deal.

PG-Murray, Parker,
SG-Brown, Manu? Mills, White, Walker,
SF- Hayward, Green
PF-Anderson, Bertans
C-Aldridge, FA-C, Militinov? Metu?

That trade would allow for the Spurs to be a 50 win team, probably for the next couple of seasons, leading up to the summer of 2020 when LMA hits free agency and Brown and Murray hit RFA.

[spurs1990]

If PG-13 stays in OKC then there could be a ripple effect; LeBron possibly crosses L.A off his list and only considers Cleveland and Philly, of he goes to Philly then all of a sudden Boston may become more aggressive in going after Kawhi.

Hayward, Brown and the Kings pick (I think there is a decent chance that that is a top five pick) for Kawhi and Gasol would be a very great deal.

PG-Murray, Parker,
SG-Brown, Manu? Mills, White, Walker,
SF- Hayward, Green
PF-Anderson, Bertans
C-Aldridge, FA-C, Militinov? Metu?

That trade would allow for the Spurs to be a 50 win team, probably for the next couple of seasons, leading up to the summer of 2020 when LMA hits free agency and Brown and Murray hit RFA.

Great info cd021 as always. Damn good read.

I’m not wanting to touch Fultz with a ten foot pole. I think he’s a very very poor man’s Antonio Daniels circa 1998 when Vancouver dropped him to the Spurs. Though if Ingram nor Brown can be had then this philly package is the play.

But adding Hayward and Brown to last years 47 win roster along with an improved Murray, Bertrans, more confident Anderson, and first year spark of Walker.... I love that rosters chances of getting to the second round.

Really hoping James signs with philly now....

[lmbebo]

Left coast live felt James was LA bound. Some annoucement to coincide with space jam 2 or some crap ...

[SpursDynasty85]

Pretty sure PG is going to LA from Magic's comments. Lebron and Kawhi I think are somewhat tied. They're not set on playing together but would work towards it if it makes sense. Spurs holding out was the right thing to do. Hopefully Kawhi and his camp play ball and/or make amends. I would hate to see Kawhi get booed at the AT&T Center after having such a great first half of his career here so far.

[Wu36]

Wall is almost the only Kentucky guy to improve and make strides in his NBA career. The rest plateaued or stagnated.
Booker seems to be doing ok.

[SpursBills]

I had the same thoughts regarding the Bridges for Zhaire Smith trade but apparently the Sun's were the aggressors on that deal and when they offered the Miami pick and Smith for Bridges, Philly accepted.

That pick could be really good, and as Nate Duncan mentioned, it could be an especially deep draft because it could be the last year of the 1 and done and the first year that prep to pro players are allowed to be drafted.

I would prefer for Murray and Fultz to play together; they'd be a good fit, in theory, Fultz is apparently a bad defender but an excellent shooter (if he ever regains his form) while Murray is an great defender who currently can't shoot. For the "Murray isn't a PG" crew, he'd be sharing playmaking responsibilities with Fultz in a theoretically backcourt.

Fultz, Covington, Miami' unprotected 2021 first rounder, Parsecniks, Anderson, and Bayless. for Kawhi and Mills.

-That is a solid haul, though the Spurs would probably be only be about as good as they were last year and that 2021 pick is three years away and there is a non zero chance that the Spurs might move that pick to move up in a draft of the really like a player.

The 76ers have a slew of seconds that probably mean little to them so I would at least ask for the 2019 Kings and/or Knicks second's (both probably in the 33-38 range) that they own, though, that might be a little too much.

PG-Fultz, Parker
SG-Murray, Manu?, White, Walker, Bayless*,
SF-Covington, Green, J. Anderson
PF- K. Anderson, Bertans
C-Aldridge Gasol, Militinov?, Metu?*,

*If roster spots would be an issue, Bayless could just be waived, his $8 million only goes through next year.

*Metu could sign directly with Austin, be a on a two-way deal, or sign with the big club in a 3 or 4 year deal.

If PG-13 stays in OKC then there could be a ripple effect; LeBron possibly crosses L.A off his list and only considers Cleveland and Philly, of he goes to Philly then all of a sudden Boston may become more aggressive in going after Kawhi.

Hayward, Brown and the Kings pick (I think there is a decent chance that that is a top five pick) for Kawhi and Gasol would be a very great deal.

PG-Murray, Parker,
SG-Brown, Manu? Mills, White, Walker,
SF- Hayward, Green
PF-Anderson, Bertans
C-Aldridge, FA-C, Militinov? Metu?

That trade would allow for the Spurs to be a 50 win team, probably for the next couple of seasons, leading up to the summer of 2020 when LMA hits free agency and Brown and Murray hit RFA.

Even if Boston refuses to include Hayward (pretty likely as he's locked into a long term contract and chose Boston as a free agent), I'd probably be willing to accept Kyrie only to shuttle him to a third team (Knicks come to mind) for an expiring and multiple draft picks (like 3 1st rounders)

Something like:
Spurs get: Jaylen Brown, Enes Kanter (expiring), Kings 2019 pick, Knicks 2019, 2021, 2023 1st rounder
Celtics get: Kawhi
Knicks get: Irving

Celtics get to form a superteam. Knicks get a perimeter star to pair with Porzingas. Spurs get a talented wing, a top 5 pick next year, and 3 additional first rounders in the next few years to reload. I'm not sold on Kyrie and Porzingas' ability to stay healthy so those picks may end up being very good.

[Mr. Body]

Booker seems to be doing ok.

Empty stats. I mean guys who can improve teams, not just do what they've always done.

[Morgo]

I would prefer for Murray and Fultz to play together; they'd be a good fit, in theory, Fultz is apparently a bad defender but an excellent shooter (if he ever regains his form) while Murray is an great defender who currently can't shoot. For the "Murray isn't a PG" crew, he'd be sharing playmaking responsibilities with Fultz in a theoretically backcourt.

My Philly friends say this is the opposite... he has outstanding defensive potential and as you mentioned needs to work on his shot... but he has Drew Hanlan working with him now which i think is a good sign.

[MoSpur02]

Give me Aaron Gordon, Evan Fournier, and next year's pick for Kawhi, Mills, and Gasol.

[RD2191]

Am I the only one that believes LBJ to the Lakers isn't happening?

[HarlemHeat37]

Give me Aaron Gordon, Evan Fournier, and next year's pick for Kawhi, Mills, and Gasol.

You want Orlando's core? Why?

[HarlemHeat37]

Uh, Anthony Davis?

:lol

John Wall as an example in a league where Anthony Davis exists..

[Spurs da champs]

Empty stats. I mean guys who can improve teams, not just do what they've always done.

I'm not saying Booker is a generational talent but KD's first 2-3 years were arguably empty stats as well.

[Wu36]

Empty stats. I mean guys who can improve teams, not just do what they've always done.
I understand. But what was he drafted like, 13th or so? How many players in the few drafts are better? Not really a Kentucky thing imo is all.

[ducks]

Booker is good
You put him better talent better stats

[ducks]

Am I the only one that believes LBJ to the Lakers isn't happening?

Heard on nba radio his wife is going to decide not him

[ducks]

Jason Kidd killed the deal with sa
Woai was not big enough

[Mr. Body]

I understand. But what was he drafted like, 13th or so? How many players in the few drafts are better? Not really a Kentucky thing imo is all.

No, but my stance is that Kentucky players rarely know how to win basketball games. Cal doesn't teach them anything, they never learn how to grind out victories, dig deep and make teammates better. AD is the same later he was years ago. KAT will never get any better. On and on. Rose was an amazing talent but never really learned how to play a system.

[baseline bum]

If PG-13 stays in OKC then there could be a ripple effect; LeBron possibly crosses L.A off his list and only considers Cleveland and Philly, of he goes to Philly then all of a sudden Boston may become more aggressive in going after Kawhi.

Hayward, Brown and the Kings pick (I think there is a decent chance that that is a top five pick) for Kawhi and Gasol would be a very great deal.

PG-Murray, Parker,
SG-Brown, Manu? Mills, White, Walker,
SF- Hayward, Green
PF-Anderson, Bertans
C-Aldridge, FA-C, Militinov? Metu?

That trade would allow for the Spurs to be a 50 win team, probably for the next couple of seasons, leading up to the summer of 2020 when LMA hits free agency and Brown and Murray hit RFA.

You're aiming way too low. If LeBron goes to Philly, Ainge is going to have to make a sweeter offer than that. LeBron going to Philly is the one thing that could make him give up Tatum, because he sure as hell doesn't want to see a team with a seven man rotation of Simmons / Reddick / Leonard / James / Embiid / Belinelli / Covington in his division and taking his Celtics out in five in every year's ECF.

[DPG21920]

Give me Aaron Gordon, Evan Fournier, and next year's pick for Kawhi, Mills, and Gasol.

Please God tell me you are joking.

[ducks]

You're aiming way too low. If LeBron goes to Philly, Ainge is going to have to make a sweeter offer than that. LeBron going to Philly is the one thing that could make him give up Tatum, because he sure as hell doesn't want to see a team with a seven man rotation of Simmons / Reddick / Leonard / James / Embiid / Belinelli / Covington in his division and taking his Celtics out in five in every year's ECF.

Will Leonard be healthy ?

[DPG21920]

For people that read tea leaves:

1011796255805079552

[marinoman]

Am I the only one that believes LBJ to the Lakers isn't happening?
Nah, I have my doubts too, we’ll see

[DPG21920]

I find it REALLY hard to imagine that Lebron isn’t going to LA. I mean, I hope LA whiffs because it would be hilarious but I think they get him.

[Wu36]

No, but my stance is that Kentucky players rarely know how to win basketball games. Cal doesn't teach them anything, they never learn how to grind out victories, dig deep and make teammates better. AD is the same later he was years ago. KAT will never get any better. On and on. Rose was an amazing talent but never really learned how to play a system.
Ok I've seemed to touch a soft spot and didn't mean to. But nobodies going to get much on the job training in less than a year. These are kids playing the hands that are delt. Cal isn't making them much better I'd agree. But I'm not going to label athlete based on their school. Booker is better than most players drafted ahead of #13 the last few years. Even if flawed.

[HarlemHeat37]

I find it REALLY hard to imagine that Lebron isn’t going to LA. I mean, I hope LA whiffs because it would be hilarious but I think they get him.

It really seems like he's going there, but I still don't understand why:lol

I keep hearing lifestyle, but it's fucking LeBron, he's one of the 3 biggest stars in NBA history..

[DPG21920]

It really seems like he's going there, but I still don't understand why:lol

I keep hearing lifestyle, but it's fucking LeBron, he's one of the 3 biggest stars in NBA history..

Only thing I can think of is he is a mogul. He truly is building an empire.

[HarlemHeat37]

Only thing I can think of is he is a mogul. He truly is building an empire.

Getting into the movie industry is the only reason I can kind of buy..everything else, he can do from anywhere, it's LeBron, he's already one of the most powerful people in entertainment:lol

It's a big problem from a basketball perspective unless they get both George and Kawhi IMO..

[marinoman]

It just seems legacy is important to him, I don’t see how that gets advanced with the lakers, maybe clippers but not lakers. Harder conference than staying with cavs or going to philly and prolly lakers won’t be too strong for this upcoming season

[HarlemHeat37]

It just seems legacy is important to him, I don’t see how that gets advanced with the lakers, maybe clippers but not lakers. Harder conference and prolly lakers won’t be too strong for this upcoming season

Not just that, but if he doesn't get both George and Kawhi, he would be putting himself in a position where the mainstream media and casuals would kill him by stupidly comparing his Lakers career to Kobe's:lol

[DPG21920]

Getting into the movie industry is the only reason I can kind of buy..everything else, he can do from anywhere, it's LeBron, he's already one of the most powerful people in entertainment:lol

It's a big problem from a basketball perspective unless they get both George and Kawhi IMO..

For sure. They will get another star IMO, probably just not Kawhi unless Kawhi wants to take a mega financial bath or unless LA brings the house with an offer.