Young: sources tell @ExpressNews that Kawhi Leonard wants to be traded from Spurs

[Vic Petro]

I mentioned Knicks as a partner last week. One injured franchise guy for an injured potential franchise guy. But Spurs ask for Knox too who looks promising. Porzy probably doesn't give you much this year but Knox has Ingram like upside and is more of a playmaker than even Jaylen Brown was as a young guy.
That would be better than letting him walk for NADA which I still don't get...

Knicks aren’t doing that. They wouldn’t even do Porzingis straight up for Kawhi. They have a KD plan for next offseason that they’re not messing with.

[lebomb]

Basically no one knows shit.

[BatManu20]

Fuck these clowns.


1018594380075098112

[BatManu20]

Magic Jr looking at Lebron like


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DiLGT1MW4AE_8XG.jpg

[spurschamps99030507]

3-6

[slick'81]

Basically no one knows shit.

Pretty obvious nobody but maybe the spurs and kawhi know whats going on

[Killakobe81]

We wouldn't get Porzy. And if the Spurs asked for both Porzy and Knox they're beyond stupid. At this point the best they will get is a 3rd tier player (DeRozan or worse) and *maybe* a 2nd rounder.

Not saying Knicks say yes just saying that is what Spurs should ask for.

[MoSpur02]

Yeah that story doesn't make sense. Nothing new has happened to give Toronto any concerns they didn't already know about and any trade is going to require a physical.

Not true. No one knows how healthy he really is. His camp stated he was close to 100%, but who has seen him play since last December or whatever? No one except his camp and his doctor(s). Even the Spurs aren't sure how healthy he is. Now I'm not saying his health scared off Toronto. It could be an excuse, but that's what they told the Spurs as far as why they backed off.

[BatManu20]

1018565342770102272

[toki9]

I mentioned Knicks as a partner last week. One injured franchise guy for an injured potential franchise guy. But Spurs ask for Knox too who looks promising. Porzy probably doesn't give you much this year but Knox has Ingram like upside and is more of a playmaker than even Jaylen Brown was as a young guy.
That would be better than letting him walk for NADA which I still don't get...

NYC media would eat him alive...i think it's even worse than the LA media...

[hooperflash]

SIX HUNNID COMIN’:flag:

[gambit1990]

if kawhi's healthy then a market's media won't be a problem for him. he'll be the best player in the league after a couple seasons.

[cool cat]

I thought fat antonio fans were saying he'd be losing 80 million? Doesn't seem like it if he plays it right. Tbh

He would lose out $80 mil guaranteed money if traded and left after one year.

The fourth option in the graph is fake, he can only sign a 4 year max, so in year 2023-24 he would have to sign another max contract. Maybe he can, but if that is your argument, then I would say he would sign with the spurs another Max after the Supermax his pay would be.

24-25 $52.39mil
25-26 $56.58mil
26-27 $61.1mil
27-28 $65.99mil
28-29 $71.27mil
307.33 mil + 239 from supermax= 546.33 million guaranteed money in 11 years with only 2 contracts

Going by 4th option

24-25 $42
25-26 $45.37
26-27 $49
27-28 $52.92
*28-29 $55.56 have to sign a new max deal
244.85+198.3

443.15 million in 11 years. That's if a 38 year old Leonard can negotiate a 3rd max contract.

So in a perfect world getting max money and max years he is losing 103 million.

[JPB]

He would lose out $80 mil guaranteed money if traded and left after one year.

The fourth option in the graph is fake, he can only sign a 4 year max, so in year 2023-24 he would have to sign another max contract. Maybe he can, but if that is your argument, then I would say he would sign with the spurs another Max after the Supermax his pay would be.

24-25 $52.39mil
25-26 $56.58mil
26-27 $61.1mil
27-28 $65.99mil
28-29 $71.27mil
307.33 mil + 239 from supermax= 546.33 million guaranteed money in 11 years with only 2 contracts

Going by 4th option

24-25 $42
25-26 $45.37
26-27 $49
27-28 $52.92
*28-29 $55.56 have to sign a new max deal
244.85+198.3

443.15 million in 11 years. That's if a 38 year old Leonard can negotiate a 3rd max contract.

So in a perfect world getting max money and max years he is losing 103 million.

what can you do with $500M you can't with 400, tbh ?

[RD2191]

what can you do with $500M you can't with 400, tbh ?

Tbh :lol

[cool cat]

what can you do with $500M you can't with 400, tbh ?

That’s a dumb question. What can you do with $100 mil you can’t with $0. Glad some people are so privileged that 100 million dollars is point less.

[BatManu20]

1018620295723315200

[Ron Swanson]

:lmao

[gambit1990]

1018620295723315200
i've always hated melo but he'll be better on the rockets than okc.

the point god will help him.

[Killakobe81]

I don’t buy anything Sheridan says, but figured I’d post it

1018244833520046081

1018439286109163520

Duplicate

[ducks]

1018565342770102272

yes

[manufan10]

if kawhi's healthy then a market's media won't be a problem for him. he'll be the best player in the league after a couple seasons.

Do you think other teams will protect him like the Spurs have done? He was shielded from criticism all last season, and he doesn't really have to talk all that much to the media... media in NY or LA won't allow them to get away with things like that.

[MoSpur02]

Yeah that story doesn't make sense. Nothing new has happened to give Toronto any concerns they didn't already know about and any trade is going to require a physical.

Not true. No one knows how healthy he really is. His camp stated he was close to 100%, but who has seen him play since last December or whatever? No one except his camp and his doctor(s). Even the Spurs aren't sure how healthy he is. Now I'm not saying his health scared off Toronto. It could be an excuse, but that's what they told the Spurs as far as why they backed off.

Spurs believe that there is a chance the Raptors might come around again, but for now they called off the deal.

[ducks]

:lmao

melo will work better with paul then with thunder

melo is not bad for a 3 option

[Coach X]

Off Topic: David Robinson, Part 2 - https://www.expressnews.com/spurs-nation/article/Off-Topic-David-Robinson-Part-2-13075559.php

Speaking of players and teams, the situation with Kawhi Leonard is the biggest NBA mystery at this point. Did you try and intervene? I’m sure the Spurs are hoping to save the relationship.

Yeah, I’m still hoping. I think it’s frustrating from one point because we’ve had this great success. We’ve built on this for so many years, and it seems like a natural progression. You go from me to Tim Duncan, to Kawhi Leonard. It just seems like it made sense. But clearly, it doesn’t make sense to somebody. So, it is frustrating at a certain level, but at the same time, you can’t expect everybody to think in the same way. I remember when Tim Duncan was thinking about leaving San Antonio. It’s simple man, just come and have a conversation. Let’s sit down and talk. And we sat down and talked. I said, “Tim, why would you leave a situation where you have a championship level team; you’re going to win more championships, and go to a situation where you hope to put together a group that can win championships. That doesn’t make any sense.” And in this particular situation, you’re going to take less money now to do that? That doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. I don’t understand the logic. It seems like a simple conversation would be able to bring some simple logic to the guy. And say, “Look man. Let’s think this through. Does it even make sense to anybody?” Why do you think everybody is wondering what the heck is going on? You have that kind of a conversation face-to-face, it seems like you can figure it out. But I think that’s why everyone is baffled because nothing makes sense about this whole scenario. Here is a franchise that spent 25 years and has a reputation for taking care of players. Not just the star players, I’m talking about the Cory Joseph’s, the Boban Marjanovic’s. The guys that have come in here and gotten contracts other places. Jonathon Simmons. We’ve nurtured these guys. We’ve haven’t been mad at them when they had other opportunities. They go and take those other opportunities. That’s their blessing. We send coaches out there who have other opportunities. I mean they have a long track record of actually supporting guys. Now, why would you fight that and turn the team into the enemy? That doesn’t make sense. So, a lot of things about this don’t make sense. It seems like simple conversations could really solve some of the problems. But to this day, I don’t hear him talking. I mean, who is saying all this stuff. If it’s you, speak up. If it’s you, step forward and be the man. You’re the face franchise. I don’t want to hear about anybody else in your party. I want to hear from you.

100% agree with Robinson.

This is about Leonard taking control of his own destiny or him letting others do it. Kawhi needs to choose between the Spurs or his "group". The franchise must exhaust all the possibilities in order to have that conversation and convince him to stay. He's too valuable.

[spurs10]

100% agree with Robinson.

This is about Leonard taking control of his own destiny or him letting others do it. Kawhi needs to choose between the Spurs or his "group". The franchise must exhaust all the possibilities in order to have that conversation and convince him to stay. He's too valuable. I too appreciate David Robinson's statements. I don't think he has to choose between his family an the Spurs, but I think he needs to weigh his options carefully. If he stays he's guaranteed a fortune with a team that is known for taking care of their people, even the little guys. If he goes he will certainly lose money, but if that's what he wants no one can stop him...next season. This year he's under contract and needs to play his ass off whether he's planning on staying or not. I'm sorry Pop has had to endure this bullshit after a horribly tragic year, but he is the consummate professional and will handle this fine I'm sure.

[gambit1990]

Do you think other teams will protect him like the Spurs have done? He was shielded from criticism all last season, and he doesn't really have to talk all that much to the media... media in NY or LA won't allow them to get away with things like that.
if he's where he wants to be and healthy then there wouldn't be a reason for him to not play.

[Holden_Caulfield]

his group wants to piggyback on his fame to build their brand, the same reason why lebron chose the lakers, its not because of championships anymore, its business. they just fucked up big time on how they went about it. kawhis best move now is to stay, but hes still a faggot.

[Strategic]

Still here waiting for KL to come out of the closet and say boo.

[sasaint]

That’s a dumb question. What can you do with $100 mil you can’t with $0. Glad some people are so privileged that 100 million dollars is point less.

Actually I have been wondering about that from another angle. Most superstar athletes, including Kawhi, have some special charities they fund. So, even if $100MM isn't particularly meaningful to the individual athlete, I am sure that their foundations and such could benefit if their benefactor had an additional $100MM at his disposal.

[sasaint]

Do you think other teams will protect him like the Spurs have done? He was shielded from criticism all last season, and he doesn't really have to talk all that much to the media... media in NY or LA won't allow them to get away with things like that.

Exactly. I started a thread last January or February about how the media conspired with the Spurs - unlike the media in any other market I have ever heard of.

[BatManu20]

1018664389560487937

[sasaint]

melo will work better with paul then with thunder

melo is not bad for a 3 option

All things considered, I would rather have Rudy - or Kyle, for that matter.

[BatManu20]

Been sayingh that I think Philly is still easily the favorite. I think that’s where he will end up.

[dabom]

Simmons is their pg, why the fuck do they need fultz? :lol

[dabom]

If you got Kawhi, They have to send their best defender on him, that leaves Simmons to dance all game. No fucking joke. :lol

[palangi]

1018664389560487937

I don't get Fultz being a hold up for either side. Dude is terrible and we have 2 young PG already

[K...]

Simmons is their pg, why the fuck do they need fultz? :lol

uh, i know you already know the answer and are making a rhetorical point, but think of 2004 spurs saying, they already have parker why do they need ginobili? It's about gross talent and depth

[dabom]

And Kawhi is the fucking closer. OM fucking G.

[dabom]

uh, i know you already know the answer and are making a rhetorical point, but think of 2004 spurs saying, they already have parker why do they need ginobili? It's about gross talent and depth

Manu was better than porker bro. :lol

More like They got Tim and Manu and get Prime Kobe for tony dude. :lol

[dabom]

Kawhi is a top 3 player in the game dude. He was number 1 in the playoffs last time he played.

[dabom]

Sixers don't even have an emotional attachment to fultz. He is a sophomore now. You best know Spurs throw fultz for prime Kobe if they could. :lol

[Captivus]

Do the Spurs even want Fultz?

[dabom]

Do the Spurs even want Fultz?

No.

[DPG21920]

I really don’t understand that if it’s at all true that Kawhi would give PHI a chance at re-signing him how they would not bring the house. I mean, I know Kawhi and his agent/family are viewed as toxic and untrustworthy at the moment, but come on PHI.

[manufan10]

if he's where he wants to be and healthy then there wouldn't be a reason for him to not play.

You didn't address my points at all. You just stated that he could play.

He can't even speak to the media now. How is he going to do it in a bigger media market? They're not going to allow him to go without speaking for as long as he has now. It's an aspect he doesn't like and has frankly never been any good at. Now he's gonna do it where they can eat players alive? Doesn't make any sense.

[DPG21920]

I would imagine there to be some news starting tomorrow since SA can formally make an offer to Kawhi. I think that is a leverage point and we will see how things proceed tomorrow.

[ace3g]

I would imagine there to be some news starting tomorrow since SA can formally make an offer to Kawhi. I think that is a leverage point and we will see how things proceed tomorrow.

Anyone know, like FA period, can Kawhi technically sign supermax at 12:01 in the morning of 7/16/18?

[DPG21920]

Anyone know, like FA period, can Kawhi technically sign supermax at 12:01 in the morning of 7/16/18?

Correct

[Ron Swanson]

Oh shit. Incoming Woj bomb?

[DPG21920]

Even if it’s just superficial and not the SuperMax I think SA tenders an offer to Kawhi and forces him to turn it down.

[dabom]

Anyone know, like FA period, can Kawhi technically sign supermax at 12:01 in the morning of 7/16/18?


Correct

A lot of people staying up tonight. :lol

[dabom]

Even if it’s just superficial and not the SuperMax I think SA tenders an offer to Kawhi and forces him to turn it down.

I also think it could be possible they want to see Kawhi train before giving him an offer. Just like every other team. :lol

[Ron Swanson]

I also think it could be possible they want to see Kawhi train before giving him an offer. Just like every other team. :lol

Which would be completely understandable. His group says he's now 100%? Prove it and either get the extension or help facilitate the trade.

[spursreport]

I also think it could be possible they want to see Kawhi train before giving him an offer. Just like every other team. :lol

STFU. You have been starting bs threads about him staying. Stop contradicting yourself you hypocrite.

[dabom]

STFU. You have been starting bs threads about him staying. Stop contradicting yourself you hypocrite.


Who the fuck is this rookie?

[mo7888]

Who the fuck is this rookie?

:lol

[Ron Swanson]

:lmao

[DPG21920]

I also think it could be possible they want to see Kawhi train before giving him an offer. Just like every other team. :lol

I don’t know - I think they cleared him and have evidently brought in a lot of doctors. They know where he is at. I just think they have to offer something unless a trade materializes quickly so that they can say they made the effort.

[manufan10]

A lot of people staying up tonight. :lol

I doubt they do anything at midnight. Didn't Pop say something similar during the FA period a few years back?

[dabom]

I doubt they do anything at midnight. Didn't Pop say something similar during the FA period a few years back?

MVPatty.

[dabom]

I don’t know - I think they cleared him and have evidently brought in a lot of doctors. They know where he is at. I just think they have to offer something unless a trade materializes quickly so that they can say they made the effort.

I'd be inclined to believe Kawhi here. The getting lots of doctors part is funny because if you feel like your liver is shutting down on you and a doctor can't find anything, you go to another, and another, this is a 200 Million dollar person walking. I don't know if they have his recent health records. And are you inclined to believe those without actually evaluating Kawhi in person?

[manufan10]

MVPatty.

:lol Did they really agree to terms at midnight? I've been out of the loop.

[Ron Swanson]

12:01

[dabom]

:lol Did they really agree to terms at midnight? I've been out of the loop.

Wojbomb at 12:01.

Certainly everything was hashed out earlier that day but they stayed up to sign the contract.

[Mr. Body]

Do the Spurs even want Fultz?

He's on an expensive rookie escape, plays a position where they already have three young players, and is still a project.

[Budkin]

Wojbomb at 12:01.

Certainly everything was hashed out earlier that day but they stayed up to sign the contract.

One of the worst moments in Spurs history.

[mo7888]

Do the Spurs even want Fultz?

Without question....even if it's just to move him to another team for a pick or players.. they definitely want him.

[mo7888]

Nm

[exstatic]

Without question....even if it's just to move him to another team for a pick or players.. they definitely want him.

Why sell so low? At least take him into the season, and see what he shows. If he balls out, you THEN flip him.

[mo7888]

Why sell so low? At least take him into the season, and see what he shows. If he balls out, you THEN flip him.

I'm not saying they should trade him or keep him... I'm just saying he has a good bit of value so you want him in the trade. There are lots of directions you could go after you have him included in the trade.

[manufan10]

https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/37085133_2153592441526904_3761563341730873344_n.jp g?_nc_cat=0&oh=355d0a1241f7fdb363869add63b6defd&oe=5BE574FC

:lol

[TheDoctor]

1018532934087737344
1) I’m not even sure Kawhi wants to go to Team USA practice. He has not shown any interest before, why do it now?

2) If Kawhi goes to Team USA camp, Pop is too professional to “take advantage” of that siutuation.

In my opinion the Spurs are either not satisfied w/ the known trade packages (most probably there are deals they are waiting for that nobody knows about) or are just waiting for Spurs training camp. As simple as that.

[Ice009]

When can the Spurs officially offer a contract? At midnight tonight US time?

[dabom]

When can the Spurs officially offer a contract? At midnight tonight US time?

I think right now...

[daslicer]

1) I’m not even sure Kawhi wants to go to Team USA practice. He has not shown any interest before, why do it now?

2) If Kawhi goes to Team USA camp, Pop is too professional to “take advantage” of that siutuation.

In my opinion the Spurs are either not satisfied w/ the known trade packages (most probably there are deals they are waiting for that nobody knows about) or are just waiting for Spurs training camp. As simple as that.

Agreed I don't buy into the team USA bs. No way does Kawhi's people allow him to go to team USA due to all the scrutiny he will face from media reporters and also to avoid a 1 on 1 situation with Pop.

[TheDoctor]

I think right now...
Not for people living in the 3rd World. NBA time it’s always Eastern Time.

[dabom]

Not for people living in the 3rd World. NBA time it’s always Eastern Time.

I dont know why I thought 2 hours. Guess one. :lol

[Dverde]

Damage control comes before training camp. Not now

[Down Under]

Even if it’s just superficial and not the SuperMax I think SA tenders an offer to Kawhi and forces him to turn it down.
Yeah. Once you see the number $220,000,000.00 you'd have to at least question what you're doing for a second.

[dabom]

Yeah. Once you see the number $220,000,000.00 you'd have to at least question what you're doing for a second.

That's "excuse me so I can throw up in the restroom" money. :lol

[17505]

Just a lurker here, and a Laker fan. Didn't even know this board existed until I saw something posted on LG, so I thought I would take a look. Anyway, these are some of my observations in terms of trying to read the tea leaves:

The Kawhi/Spurs relationship seems irreparable, but the Spurs are going to make a last-ditch effort to tak to him if he shows up to the Team USA camp. If nothing materializes there, the efforts to deal him will ramp up.

Assuming the Spurs can't work it out with him, they have to deal him before training camp. It would be a shitstorm if they brought him into that locker room, with the situation as is. I don't think anyone wants to deal with that.

It makes sense that, as it relates to LA, Kawhi's people prefer him to play for the Clippers, as opposed to the Lakers. If you read the tea leaves, it seemed like the Lakers were heavily pursuing him, and then something changed; you saw the Lakers pull back on what they were offering, not even Ingram or Kuzma by themselves were being offered (let alone both), and the Lakers used up their cap space. The reports of Kawhi's people thinking that he would be in LeBron's shadow on the Lakers, I believe, are true, and that could be why the Lakers pulled back, because they may not think he'll re-up. By the way, I find this interesting if Uncle Dennis thinks this, because he apparently doesn't realize just how much the Clippers are in the Lakers' shadow in LA. I mean, the Lakers sucked for 5 years, the Clippers had CP3 and Blake for most of those 5 years, and in these parts, the Clippers barely were a blip on the radar. If this is about visibility and brand for Kawhi's group, he would get a lot more of that as the 1B on the Lakers instead of it being "his team" on the Clippers. But I digress.

It's interesting to think about just what the Spurs are looking to get in a trade. They aren't getting Brown from the Celtics (or Tatum, obviously). They apparently aren't getting Ingram or Kuzma from the Lakers, who have moved on, I believe. The Spurs love SGA, and I do wonder if something like Harris and SGA and perhaps a future pick could work, especially if the Clippers have the intel that he would re-up with them. I don't know how much interest the Spurs would have in acquiring DeRozan from the Raptors, even if they got Anunoby as well, and I don't even know if the Raptors are willing to give that up for a 1-year rental. I could see the Suns offering Dudley, Chriss, and Josh Jackson, especially since the Suns traded for Mikal Bridges on draft night and also signed Ariza this year. It's also worth noting that their GM, McDonough, is under pressure to win this season or he'll get run, and I know that he's trying to make a splash. However, my belief all along has been that the 76ers make the most sense. Brett Brown and the Spurs obviously have that familiarity, Brown could find himself on the hot seat if they lose early in the playoffs, and I think Philly has a good chance to re-sign him. I'm just not sure if the Spurs can get Fultz from the Sixers. I suppose that if the Clippers offered SGA (next month, since he can't be traded at the moment) or if the Suns offered Jackson, perhaps the Sixers would feel compelled to include him, and if they didn't have to give up any picks, maybe they can stomach it. Something like Fultz, Saric, and Covington. Given the situation the Spurs are in with a disgruntled player on an expiring contract who other teams may think has health questions (though I believe Ramona Shelburne's report that he's now 100%), I think they would do well to get last year's #1 pick, a nice rotation player at worst in Saric (though he will need to get paid after the season), and an all-NBA defender in Covington.

I think he'll be a Sixer by the start of training camp. If the Sixers balk at Fultz and if the Clippers are willing to move SGA next month, that would be my second choice in this derby, if I were betting.

[SixersFan]

I really don’t understand that if it’s at all true that Kawhi would give PHI a chance at re-signing him how they would not bring the house. I mean, I know Kawhi and his agent/family are viewed as toxic and untrustworthy at the moment, but come on PHI.

We're not giving up Fultz. I hope we walk away. He has one year left and is coming off a season he played 9 games. Covington+Saric +picks will be our final offer simply dont have the leverage to be demanding half our team.

[SixersFan]

Simmons is their pg, why the fuck do they need fultz? :lol

Fultz can play SG and w eneed more ball handlers in the starting 5. That's why we drafted him.. Simmons can also slot to the 4.

[DPG21920]

We're not giving up Fultz. I hope we walk away. He has one year left and is coming off a season he played 9 games. Covington+Saric +picks will be our final offer simply dont have the leverage to be demanding half our team.

Bye Sixers fan

[dabom]

Just a lurker here, and a Laker fan. Didn't even know this board existed until I saw something posted on LG, so I thought I would take a look. Anyway, these are some of my observations in terms of trying to read the tea leaves:

The Kawhi/Spurs relationship seems irreparable, but the Spurs are going to make a last-ditch effort to tak to him if he shows up to the Team USA camp. If nothing materializes there, the efforts to deal him will ramp up.

Assuming the Spurs can't work it out with him, they have to deal him before training camp. It would be a shitstorm if they brought him into that locker room, with the situation as is. I don't think anyone wants to deal with that.

It makes sense that, as it relates to LA, Kawhi's people prefer him to play for the Clippers, as opposed to the Lakers. If you read the tea leaves, it seemed like the Lakers were heavily pursuing him, and then something changed; you saw the Lakers pull back on what they were offering, not even Ingram or Kuzma by themselves were being offered (let alone both), and the Lakers used up their cap space. The reports of Kawhi's people thinking that he would be in LeBron's shadow on the Lakers, I believe, are true, and that could be why the Lakers pulled back, because they may not think he'll re-up. By the way, I find this interesting if Uncle Dennis thinks this, because he apparently doesn't realize just how much the Clippers are in the Lakers' shadow in LA. I mean, the Lakers sucked for 5 years, the Clippers had CP3 and Blake for most of those 5 years, and in these parts, the Clippers barely were a blip on the radar. If this is about visibility and brand for Kawhi's group, he would get a lot more of that as the 1B on the Lakers instead of it being "his team" on the Clippers. But I digress.

It's interesting to think about just what the Spurs are looking to get in a trade. They aren't getting Brown from the Celtics (or Tatum, obviously). They apparently aren't getting Ingram or Kuzma from the Lakers, who have moved on, I believe. The Spurs love SGA, and I do wonder if something like Harris and SGA and perhaps a future pick could work, especially if the Clippers have the intel that he would re-up with them. I don't know how much interest the Spurs would have in acquiring DeRozan from the Raptors, even if they got Anunoby as well, and I don't even know if the Raptors are willing to give that up for a 1-year rental. I could see the Suns offering Dudley, Chriss, and Josh Jackson, especially since the Suns traded for Mikal Bridges on draft night and also signed Ariza this year. It's also worth noting that their GM, McDonough, is under pressure to win this season or he'll get run, and I know that he's trying to make a splash. However, my belief all along has been that the 76ers make the most sense. Brett Brown and the Spurs obviously have that familiarity, Brown could find himself on the hot seat if they lose early in the playoffs, and I think Philly has a good chance to re-sign him. I'm just not sure if the Spurs can get Fultz from the Sixers. I suppose that if the Clippers offered SGA (next month, since he can't be traded at the moment) or if the Suns offered Jackson, perhaps the Sixers would feel compelled to include him, and if they didn't have to give up any picks, maybe they can stomach it. Something like Fultz, Saric, and Covington. Given the situation the Spurs are in with a disgruntled player on an expiring contract who other teams may think has health questions (though I believe Ramona Shelburne's report that he's now 100%), I think they would do well to get last year's #1 pick, a nice rotation player at worst in Saric (though he will need to get paid after the season), and an all-NBA defender in Covington.

I think he'll be a Sixer by the start of training camp. If the Sixers balk at Fultz and if the Clippers are willing to move SGA next month, that would be my second choice in this derby, if I were betting.

Sup faggot.

[SixersFan]

Bye Sixers fan

Did I hurt your feelings with something I said?

[17505]

We're not giving up Fultz. I hope we walk away. He has one year left and is coming off a season he played 9 games. Covington+Saric +picks will be our final offer simply dont have the leverage to be demanding half our team.

Say you were satisfied that he's 100% and that you knew he would re-sign. Would you do Fultz/Saric/Covington, as a Sixer fan? Just curious.

[dabom]

Bye Sixers fan

:lol

[SixersFan]

Say you were satisfied that he's 100% and that you knew he would re-sign. Would you do Fultz/Saric/Covington, as a Sixer fan? Just curious.

No i rate Fultz extremely highly. Funny how half this forum doesn't rate Fultz yet want him in deal with us.

[dabom]

Fultz can play SG and w eneed more ball handlers in the starting 5. That's why we drafted him.. Simmons can also slot to the 4.

So 2 players who can't shoot at PG and SG. :lmao And Kawhi is a better player than your whole team combined. :lmao

Losing to the celtics who got raped by the cavs who got murdered by the warriors. :lmao

[bdictjames]

Some people have way too much time on this site tbh :lol

[ElNono]

There's zero reasons for the Spurs to take what they might consider a bad deal right now, they can get that throughout the year. They might gain some leverage over teams that might get desperate or feel that they're that one piece away from contention.

As far as distractions, who cares? Is not that this team is a contender right now, LMA only cares about his touches, and Kawhi is quiet as fuck. The only distraction would be if his advisors tell him not to show up to work, which would make things even worse for him.

[ElNono]

There's zero reasons for the Spurs to take what they might consider a bad deal right now, they can get that throughout the year. They might gain some leverage over teams that might get desperate or feel that they're that one piece away from contention.

As far as distractions, who cares? Is not that this team is a contender right now, LMA only cares about his touches, and Kawhi is quiet as fuck. The only distraction would be if his advisors tell him not to show up to work, which would make things even worse for him.

[Fusternino]

Just a lurker here, and a Laker fan. Didn't even know this board existed until I saw something posted on LG, so I thought I would take a look. Anyway, these are some of my observations in terms of trying to read the tea leaves:

The Kawhi/Spurs relationship seems irreparable, but the Spurs are going to make a last-ditch effort to tak to him if he shows up to the Team USA camp. If nothing materializes there, the efforts to deal him will ramp up.

Assuming the Spurs can't work it out with him, they have to deal him before training camp. It would be a shitstorm if they brought him into that locker room, with the situation as is. I don't think anyone wants to deal with that.

It makes sense that, as it relates to LA, Kawhi's people prefer him to play for the Clippers, as opposed to the Lakers. If you read the tea leaves, it seemed like the Lakers were heavily pursuing him, and then something changed; you saw the Lakers pull back on what they were offering, not even Ingram or Kuzma by themselves were being offered (let alone both), and the Lakers used up their cap space. The reports of Kawhi's people thinking that he would be in LeBron's shadow on the Lakers, I believe, are true, and that could be why the Lakers pulled back, because they may not think he'll re-up. By the way, I find this interesting if Uncle Dennis thinks this, because he apparently doesn't realize just how much the Clippers are in the Lakers' shadow in LA. I mean, the Lakers sucked for 5 years, the Clippers had CP3 and Blake for most of those 5 years, and in these parts, the Clippers barely were a blip on the radar. If this is about visibility and brand for Kawhi's group, he would get a lot more of that as the 1B on the Lakers instead of it being "his team" on the Clippers. But I digress.

It's interesting to think about just what the Spurs are looking to get in a trade. They aren't getting Brown from the Celtics (or Tatum, obviously). They apparently aren't getting Ingram or Kuzma from the Lakers, who have moved on, I believe. The Spurs love SGA, and I do wonder if something like Harris and SGA and perhaps a future pick could work, especially if the Clippers have the intel that he would re-up with them. I don't know how much interest the Spurs would have in acquiring DeRozan from the Raptors, even if they got Anunoby as well, and I don't even know if the Raptors are willing to give that up for a 1-year rental. I could see the Suns offering Dudley, Chriss, and Josh Jackson, especially since the Suns traded for Mikal Bridges on draft night and also signed Ariza this year. It's also worth noting that their GM, McDonough, is under pressure to win this season or he'll get run, and I know that he's trying to make a splash. However, my belief all along has been that the 76ers make the most sense. Brett Brown and the Spurs obviously have that familiarity, Brown could find himself on the hot seat if they lose early in the playoffs, and I think Philly has a good chance to re-sign him. I'm just not sure if the Spurs can get Fultz from the Sixers. I suppose that if the Clippers offered SGA (next month, since he can't be traded at the moment) or if the Suns offered Jackson, perhaps the Sixers would feel compelled to include him, and if they didn't have to give up any picks, maybe they can stomach it. Something like Fultz, Saric, and Covington. Given the situation the Spurs are in with a disgruntled player on an expiring contract who other teams may think has health questions (though I believe Ramona Shelburne's report that he's now 100%), I think they would do well to get last year's #1 pick, a nice rotation player at worst in Saric (though he will need to get paid after the season), and an all-NBA defender in Covington.

I think he'll be a Sixer by the start of training camp. If the Sixers balk at Fultz and if the Clippers are willing to move SGA next month, that would be my second choice in this derby, if I were betting.

I don't think the Lakers have given up on Kawhi in general. That's why when all the cap space was used up, it was on one year deals. But Lakers definitely don't plan to make a serious offer for the rest of the season. They're over the cap and would need to use KCP, Rondo, or Deng to match salaries. They do plan to make a move in FA.

I also don't think Spurs can get a lot out of Philly. While the uncle is from near Philly and it's a big market, Cris Carter has destroyed Kawhi's trade value with the demand of only going to LA. Philly is also over the cap and needs to match salaries. Covington/Saric isn't enough salary. Honestly, I'm not even sure Spurs are interested in Fultz. Chandler can be used to match salary (as can Fultz). Maybe Spurs take Covington/Saric/Fultz and then move Fultz elsewhere. 76ers are also the team most likely to accept Patty Mills in a salary dump. They're a better option than the LakeShow but it really looks like a no go for now. I can see Brett Brown leaking info though to help out Pop. Spurs would also be interested in Zhaire Smith and picks.

As far as WC teams that are delusional or desperate . . . I do consider the Suns and Kings in this category, although more so the Kings. Before the draft, I could've seen Kawhi for the #2 pick and Bogdanovic. Neither of these teams seem likely right now, though.

Celtics are simply not a viable option. Honestly, if I were them I'd stay put and see what happens with Kyrie and Gordon back and internal improvements from the young core.

As far as desperate EC teams I put Toronto and the Heat in this category. The Hornets would've been until Tony went there. MJ is a terrible owner and maybe he thinks Kawhi would re-sign if a shoe deal was offered on the side which is possibly nearly against the CBA rules. I could see the same situation with Kawhi going to the Bulls but less so. Toronto and Miami would basically be looking at soft salary dumps. Toronto is probably planning to blow it all up pretty soon anyways so why not take a shot? Toronto is a big market (although I doubt Kawhi's team's ability to utilize that) and if a championship is won then who knows? I don't want DeRozan on our team because he is terrible at the 3-ball. Riley is a great guy . . . if anyone can convince Kawhi to stay, it'd be him. And if Kawhi leaves either of those places, then at least they clear salary. Those teams have awful cap situations.

I agree though that we need to deal with the Clippers. West was offering Tobias/12/13/"additional players" on draft night. I would have immediately used the additional picks to get Miles Bridges and Mitchell Robinson. Tobias is a good replacement for Kawhi and I would've also asked for a Harrell S&T and the Clippers 2021 first round pick.

But a lot of people tell me I'm delusional for that, oh well. I'd still like to deal with the Clippers but the return is probably going to be less optimal or a third team will need to get involved. I like Tobias/Harrell/Jerome Robinson. But we already have at least 8 guards on this team. Really the only mistake we made this offseason was re-signing Forbes over our Anderson who was our point forward.

[Ron Swanson]

It's after 12:00 on the east coast. The only Woj bomb happening is if he got a hold of some bad Tex-Mex tonight.

[dabom]

It's after 12:00 on the east coast. The only Woj bomb happening is if he got a hold of some bad Tex-Mex tonight.

Shut it down guys. It ain't happening tonight...

[SixersFan]

So 2 players who can't shoot at PG and SG. :lmao And Kawhi is a better player than your whole team combined. :lmao

Losing to the celtics who got raped by the cavs who got murdered by the warriors. :lmao
Fultz was a good shooter at UW, he apparently fixed his shot its not similar to Ben who has awful mechanics Markelle seemingly got the yips and changed form.

[Fusternino]

Fultz was a good shooter at UW, he apparently fixed his shot its not similar to Ben who has awful mechanics Markelle seemingly got the yips and changed form.

What if we sent you back Murray-would you consider including Fultz then? I'm not interested in that BTW but am curious.

[K...]

Shut it down guys. It ain't happening tonight...

You better stay up for a few more hours just in case

[Ice009]

Fultz can play SG and w eneed more ball handlers in the starting 5. That's why we drafted him.. Simmons can also slot to the 4.

Hold onto Fultz and have fun never winning anything.

I don't even want Fultz, but that fact that you guys want to hold onto a scrub like Fultz and not get a fully healthy Kawhi (assuming reports are true and he is 100%) is just insane. You'd be instant contenders in the East for years to come (depending on Embiid's health).

[BatManu20]

1018709469008670720

[Ron Swanson]

Goddamn Woj caught me for a second. He retweeted that Kawhi is now eligible for the supermax.

[dabom]

Fultz was a good shooter at UW, he apparently fixed his shot its not similar to Ben who has awful mechanics Markelle seemingly got the yips and changed form.

Ya overestimating a bum. At this point I don't even want fultz. We got to many guards.

[FlAVaK]

^:lol

no 12:01 deal for him,
he ain't no paddy...

[dabom]

You better stay up for a few more hours just in case

I'll catch it in the morning.

[dabom]

^:lol

no 12:01 deal for him,
he ain't no paddy...

MVPaddy is Spurs Royalty brah. He got Paid and Pop and RC up at night past their bedtime. :lol

[BackHome]

Fultz sucks he is a head case don't need or want his drama...

[Fusternino]

Crazy thought . . . if I were the Sixers and could do it all over again here's what I'd do . . .

I'd rather have Fultz (if he's actually healthy mentally/physically and his shot goes back to normal) than Simmons as my PG. Let's face it, Ben will never develop a shot not at the rim. Ship out Simmons with some salary (Chandler?) and get back an elite 3&D wing. Fultz is now the starting PG. Honestly, you might be able to get Jimmy Butler-Minnesota is desperate to move him for something. Now, sign Lebron outright with your cap space (Chandler is gone at this point)-I think he would get serious motivation to play for you guys and sign the same deal he signed with the Lakers . . . 4 years, last year is a player option. Now, go get Kawhi. Throw everything at him. Covington/Saric/Zhaire/2021 Heat pick/other young cheap talent/two of your own future firsts.

So basically you use the fact that Fultz is cheap on his rookie deal and Kawhi and Butler have cheap maxes due to signing their deals under the terms of the old CBA. So your SL would then be Fultz-Butler-Kawhi-LeBron-Joel.

Thoughts?

[Killakobe81]

No i rate Fultz extremely highly. Funny how half this forum doesn't rate Fultz yet want him in deal with us.

I have to admit I am a Fultz doubter... However more from not being that impressed with him when he played vs Oregon, Ucla, U$C or Zona the only schools that matter in the conference he played college ball in. However he may be Donovan Mitchell who also wasn't all world in college he was even less impressive than Fultz but at least he was healthy and led his team to the tourney... But how you feel about Fultz is how I feel about Ingram.
Welcome to ST... Hope you stick around and hope Philly stomps a mud hole in Boston this year, lol 😂

[dabom]

Ya sixer fans drinking the koolaid. :lol

[17505]

Crazy thought . . . if I were the Sixers and could do it all over again here's what I'd do . . .

I'd rather have Fultz (if he's actually healthy mentally/physically and his shot goes back to normal) than Simmons as my PG. Ship out Simmons with some salary (Chandler?) and get back an elite 3&D wing. Fultz is now the starting PG. Honestly, you might be able to get Jimmy Butler-Minnesota is desperate to move him for something. Now, sign Lebron outright with your cap space (Chandler is gone at this point)-I think he would get serious motivation to play for you guys and sign the same deal he signed with the Lakers . . . 4 years, last year is a player option. Now, go get Kawhi. Throw everything at him. Covington/Saric/Zhaire/2021 Heat pick/other young cheap talent/two of your own future firsts.

So basically you use the fact that Fultz is cheap on his rookie deal and Kawhi and Butler have cheap maxes due to signing their deals under the terms of the old CBA. So your SL would then be Fultz-Butler-Kawhi-LeBron-Joel.

Thoughts?

There is absolutely no chance that the 76ers trade Simmons. He is already a star and if he develops a jump shot, he's unstoppable. And plays D, also.

[dabom]

And ya laker fans with shit players think they gonna amount to anything. :lol

[hooperflash]

Judgement day? :hungry::hungry::hungry:

[Fusternino]

There is absolutely no chance that the 76ers trade Simmons. He is already a star and if he develops a jump shot, he's unstoppable. And plays D, also.

He will never develop a jump shot. It amuses me when people say "oh he just needs a jump shot" because from history . . . it basically never happens. Kawhi was an exception to this. Fultz actually has a jump shot and the whole package-I truly believe last year was an aberration.

[BackHome]

If I had a dollar for every time some one said "And when He learns to shoot" in the NBA I would be a millionaire..:lol

[Fusternino]

He will never develop a jump shot. It amuses me when people say "oh he just needs a jump shot" because from history . . . it basically never happens. Kawhi was an exception to this. Fultz actually has a jump shot and the whole package-I truly believe last year was an aberration.

Trust me . . . Simmons's lack of a jumper will be exploited very soon.

[dabom]

I was gonna fake wojbomb ya guys but decided not too. :lol

[17505]

Simmons is already playing like an All-Star without a jump shot. He can only get better. Giannis doesn't have much of one either and he's still basically unstoppable. The point is that they aren't trading him for anyone, just like Boston isn't trading Tatum for anyone. Not on a rookie contract.

[Ice009]

I'm not really a Simmons fan. Why do you guys think he's so great?

A lot of players that were piss poor shooters coming into the NBA, I don't recall too many of them developing into great ones in the time I've been watching the NBA. Maybe with technology these days such as virtual reality (A tool I would never have even thought of using when I was learning to shoot, but that is also due to it not being anywhere near viable when I was a kid) and great shooting coaching to go with it, maybe there's a higher chance players that are piss poor shooters can turn themselves into great ones with the right coaching, tools and hard work.

I'm from the old school, though, and I believe if you don't have a feel for shooting, then I don't think the chances of you becoming a great shooter are very high. Sure, there is exceptions, but there is a lot more examples of players that were bad shooters that never became a great shooter even with hard work, mostly, in my opinion because they never had or don't have a feel for shooting.

[Fusternino]

Simmons is already playing like an All-Star without a jump shot. He can only get better. Giannis doesn't have much of one either and he's still basically unstoppable. The point is that they aren't trading him for anyone, just like Boston isn't trading Tatum for anyone. Not on a rookie contract.

I'm not convinced Simmons is actually better than Fultz. Simmons also effectively missed his first year. If you have Fultz 36 minutes a game this upcoming year do you really think he'd be that much worse than Simmons did the past year? If giving up Simmons gets you Lebron and Kawhi . . . then you have to do it.

As for Giannis . . . he will never be a superstar (just a star) because he can't shoot. It's a real problem and it's not going away anytime soon. I also don't think it's a fair comparison. Simmons makes Giannis look like Curry, haha.

[Fusternino]

I'm not really a Simmons fan. Why do you guys think he's so great?

A lot of players that were piss poor shooters coming into the NBA, I don't recall too many of them developing into great ones in the time I've been watching the NBA. Maybe with technology these days such as virtual reality (A tool I would never have even thought of using when I was learning to shoot, but that is also due to it not being anywhere near viable when I was a kid) and great shooting coaching to go with it, maybe there's a higher chance players that are piss poor shooters can turn themselves into great ones with the right coaching, tools and hard work.

I'm from the old school, though, and I believe if you don't have a feel for shooting, then I don't think the chances of you becoming a great shooter are very high. Sure, there is exceptions, but there is a lot more examples of players that were bad shooters that never became a great shooter even with hard work, mostly, in my opinion because they never had or don't have a feel for shooting.

To me when someone says "he just needs a jump shot" it's as ridiculous to me as saying someone who dribbles the ball off his foot every time "just needs to learn to dribble drive." There's some players where the fixes needed wouldn't be that much (Kawhi simply needed to move his set point more towards the front of his head) and the player has tremendous work ethic where OK the change could happen. But normally, you just have to hope the player becomes less of a liability at the line and can hit the completely wide open corner 3.

[dabom]

I'm not convinced Simmons is actually better than Fultz. Simmons also effectively missed his first year. If you have Fultz 36 minutes a game this upcoming year do you really think he'd be that much worse than Simmons did the past year? If giving up Simmons gets you Lebron and Kawhi . . . then you have to do it.

As for Giannis . . . he will never be a superstar (just a star) because he can't shoot. It's a real problem and it's not going away anytime soon. I also don't think it's a fair comparison. Simmons makes Giannis look like Curry, haha.

Fultz played like 15 games brah.

[dabom]

Kawhi was the face 9f the franchise after his rookie season. All those guys are bums compared to Kawhi.

[Fusternino]

Fultz played like 15 games brah.

Yeah we're agreeing, I'm saying both of them effectively missed out on their first year in the league.

[dabom]

Yeah we're agreeing, I'm saying both of them effectively missed out on their first year in the league.

Simmons passes the eye test. Fultz doesnt.

[Fusternino]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3zr_2v-6UM

Need to make a Harrell thread soon, haha.

[99 Problems]

We locked up MVPatty b4 Xzzzijijingx the shoe agent got to him.

[baseline bum]

He will never develop a jump shot. It amuses me when people say "oh he just needs a jump shot" because from history . . . it basically never happens. Kawhi was an exception to this. Fultz actually has a jump shot and the whole package-I truly believe last year was an aberration.

And Tony Parker? He 100% literally did not have a jumpshot coming into the league. As in his outside shot was a set shot.

[Ice009]

Simmons is already playing like an All-Star without a jump shot. He can only get better. Giannis doesn't have much of one either and he's still basically unstoppable. The point is that they aren't trading him for anyone, just like Boston isn't trading Tatum for anyone. Not on a rookie contract.

Players like Giannis don't normally do well in the playoffs. Teams game plan around their weaknesses and are able to neutralize them somewhat throughout the game. He's a very good player, has a lot of great tools that can't be taught, but for him and his team to go anywhere in the playoffs with him as a number 1 option, he needs to learn to shoot.

[SupremeGuy]

What are you actually arguing?That while Pop's commie ass pretends to care about the plight of African Americans he's holding one hostage on his farm. Need anything else explained for you?

[Chinook]

Did I hurt your feelings with something I said?

No, he's saying that you if don't want to play ball, there's nothing more to say. The Spurs are the ones with Kawhi, and at the end of the day, having him for another year is worth quite a bit. If Philly isn't willing to get to that value threshold, they won't get him, regardless of how low Leonard's "trade value" is. With auctions, not only are there usually opening bids to set a floor on the price, but there's often a secret number the bidding has to reach in order for the object to get sold. A room full of bidders can't conspire to buy a yacht for a dollar. You don't want Philly to make a minimum bid. That's fine. But then they won't get Leonard. Simple as that.

[17505]

Players like Giannis don't normally do well in the playoffs. Teams game plan around their weaknesses and are able to neutralize them somewhat throughout the game. He's a very good player, has a lot of great tools that can't be taught, but for him and his team to go anywhere in the playoffs with him as a number 1 option, he needs to learn to shoot.

Yes he has issues, but he's still clearly a top 10-15 player in this league, and that's probably selling him short. He's also not even in his prime yet. Dude is a beast. I expect the Bucks to be much better this season with Budenholzer as coach, and y'all should know all about that.

[Chinook]

Just a lurker here, and a Laker fan. Didn't even know this board existed until I saw something posted on LG, so I thought I would take a look. Anyway, these are some of my observations in terms of trying to read the tea leaves:

The Kawhi/Spurs relationship seems irreparable, but the Spurs are going to make a last-ditch effort to tak to him if he shows up to the Team USA camp. If nothing materializes there, the efforts to deal him will ramp up.

Assuming the Spurs can't work it out with him, they have to deal him before training camp. It would be a shitstorm if they brought him into that locker room, with the situation as is. I don't think anyone wants to deal with that.

It makes sense that, as it relates to LA, Kawhi's people prefer him to play for the Clippers, as opposed to the Lakers. If you read the tea leaves, it seemed like the Lakers were heavily pursuing him, and then something changed; you saw the Lakers pull back on what they were offering, not even Ingram or Kuzma by themselves were being offered (let alone both), and the Lakers used up their cap space. The reports of Kawhi's people thinking that he would be in LeBron's shadow on the Lakers, I believe, are true, and that could be why the Lakers pulled back, because they may not think he'll re-up. By the way, I find this interesting if Uncle Dennis thinks this, because he apparently doesn't realize just how much the Clippers are in the Lakers' shadow in LA. I mean, the Lakers sucked for 5 years, the Clippers had CP3 and Blake for most of those 5 years, and in these parts, the Clippers barely were a blip on the radar. If this is about visibility and brand for Kawhi's group, he would get a lot more of that as the 1B on the Lakers instead of it being "his team" on the Clippers. But I digress.

It's interesting to think about just what the Spurs are looking to get in a trade. They aren't getting Brown from the Celtics (or Tatum, obviously). They apparently aren't getting Ingram or Kuzma from the Lakers, who have moved on, I believe. The Spurs love SGA, and I do wonder if something like Harris and SGA and perhaps a future pick could work, especially if the Clippers have the intel that he would re-up with them. I don't know how much interest the Spurs would have in acquiring DeRozan from the Raptors, even if they got Anunoby as well, and I don't even know if the Raptors are willing to give that up for a 1-year rental. I could see the Suns offering Dudley, Chriss, and Josh Jackson, especially since the Suns traded for Mikal Bridges on draft night and also signed Ariza this year. It's also worth noting that their GM, McDonough, is under pressure to win this season or he'll get run, and I know that he's trying to make a splash. However, my belief all along has been that the 76ers make the most sense. Brett Brown and the Spurs obviously have that familiarity, Brown could find himself on the hot seat if they lose early in the playoffs, and I think Philly has a good chance to re-sign him. I'm just not sure if the Spurs can get Fultz from the Sixers. I suppose that if the Clippers offered SGA (next month, since he can't be traded at the moment) or if the Suns offered Jackson, perhaps the Sixers would feel compelled to include him, and if they didn't have to give up any picks, maybe they can stomach it. Something like Fultz, Saric, and Covington. Given the situation the Spurs are in with a disgruntled player on an expiring contract who other teams may think has health questions (though I believe Ramona Shelburne's report that he's now 100%), I think they would do well to get last year's #1 pick, a nice rotation player at worst in Saric (though he will need to get paid after the season), and an all-NBA defender in Covington.

I think he'll be a Sixer by the start of training camp. If the Sixers balk at Fultz and if the Clippers are willing to move SGA next month, that would be my second choice in this derby, if I were betting.

Welcome to the boards. And thanks for contributing a thoughtful post. I apologize that I'm not likely to type a similar post about Kawhi at this stage. We've just been over that ground too much here for that. I think SA is easily the most likely team to have him, both in TC and in 2019. No one would argue that this hasn't become farcical, but Pop probably knows Leonard better than most people seem to be allowing. If PATFO is still trying to work this out, it's because they believe they can do so, not because they are trying to force teams to pay more. To that end, we do not know what they'd ultimately want. I think it'll be a specific player or specific players though, rather than just a lot of "value" or picks. I don't know whether that's a vet like DeRozan or a prospect like Fultz. Maybe they're willing to go both ways depending on the trade partner. I do like Phoenix more than the average STer. They have some nice pieces and an MKE pick that could be decent. I could certainly see PHX offering something that beats out everyone else while keeping Booker and Ayton. It's just going to come down to how SA feels about Jackson and Bender.

[cutewizard]

Just a lurker here, and a Laker fan. Didn't even know this board existed until I saw something posted on LG, so I thought I would take a look. Anyway, these are some of my observations in terms of trying to read the tea leaves:

The Kawhi/Spurs relationship seems irreparable, but the Spurs are going to make a last-ditch effort to tak to him if he shows up to the Team USA camp. If nothing materializes there, the efforts to deal him will ramp up.

Assuming the Spurs can't work it out with him, they have to deal him before training camp. It would be a shitstorm if they brought him into that locker room, with the situation as is. I don't think anyone wants to deal with that.

It makes sense that, as it relates to LA, Kawhi's people prefer him to play for the Clippers, as opposed to the Lakers. If you read the tea leaves, it seemed like the Lakers were heavily pursuing him, and then something changed; you saw the Lakers pull back on what they were offering, not even Ingram or Kuzma by themselves were being offered (let alone both), and the Lakers used up their cap space. The reports of Kawhi's people thinking that he would be in LeBron's shadow on the Lakers, I believe, are true, and that could be why the Lakers pulled back, because they may not think he'll re-up. By the way, I find this interesting if Uncle Dennis thinks this, because he apparently doesn't realize just how much the Clippers are in the Lakers' shadow in LA. I mean, the Lakers sucked for 5 years, the Clippers had CP3 and Blake for most of those 5 years, and in these parts, the Clippers barely were a blip on the radar. If this is about visibility and brand for Kawhi's group, he would get a lot more of that as the 1B on the Lakers instead of it being "his team" on the Clippers. But I digress.

It's interesting to think about just what the Spurs are looking to get in a trade. They aren't getting Brown from the Celtics (or Tatum, obviously). They apparently aren't getting Ingram or Kuzma from the Lakers, who have moved on, I believe. The Spurs love SGA, and I do wonder if something like Harris and SGA and perhaps a future pick could work, especially if the Clippers have the intel that he would re-up with them. I don't know how much interest the Spurs would have in acquiring DeRozan from the Raptors, even if they got Anunoby as well, and I don't even know if the Raptors are willing to give that up for a 1-year rental. I could see the Suns offering Dudley, Chriss, and Josh Jackson, especially since the Suns traded for Mikal Bridges on draft night and also signed Ariza this year. It's also worth noting that their GM, McDonough, is under pressure to win this season or he'll get run, and I know that he's trying to make a splash. However, my belief all along has been that the 76ers make the most sense. Brett Brown and the Spurs obviously have that familiarity, Brown could find himself on the hot seat if they lose early in the playoffs, and I think Philly has a good chance to re-sign him. I'm just not sure if the Spurs can get Fultz from the Sixers. I suppose that if the Clippers offered SGA (next month, since he can't be traded at the moment) or if the Suns offered Jackson, perhaps the Sixers would feel compelled to include him, and if they didn't have to give up any picks, maybe they can stomach it. Something like Fultz, Saric, and Covington. Given the situation the Spurs are in with a disgruntled player on an expiring contract who other teams may think has health questions (though I believe Ramona Shelburne's report that he's now 100%), I think they would do well to get last year's #1 pick, a nice rotation player at worst in Saric (though he will need to get paid after the season), and an all-NBA defender in Covington.

I think he'll be a Sixer by the start of training camp. If the Sixers balk at Fultz and if the Clippers are willing to move SGA next month, that would be my second choice in this derby, if I were betting.

:bobo

[offset formation]

I don't get Fultz being a hold up for either side. Dude is terrible and we have 2 young PG already

Doesn't make any sense to me either unless Spurs view him a replacement for one of those two. Or more probably, they view him as a piece to get something else from someone else.

[offset formation]

I really don’t understand that if it’s at all true that Kawhi would give PHI a chance at re-signing him how they would not bring the house. I mean, I know Kawhi and his agent/family are viewed as toxic and untrustworthy at the moment, but come on PHI.

Carter out there saying LA, and LA only. Teams are getting mixed messages at best if not outright denials about re-signing.

[Mr. Body]

Doesn't make any sense to me either unless Spurs view him a replacement for one of those two. Or more probably, they view him as a piece to get something else from someone else.

My uninformed guess is that they want a Fultz type asset, but will flip him to another team for something else potentially.

[Ice009]

Yes he has issues, but he's still clearly a top 10-15 player in this league, and that's probably selling him short. He's also not even in his prime yet. Dude is a beast. I expect the Bucks to be much better this season with Budenholzer as coach, and y'all should know all about that.

Oh, I think he's a top 10 player, but more towards the bottom end of the top 10. He's not MVP level yet. He may get there and get there soon, but people were talking about him being MVP in the early part of last season and I didn't agree with that at all.

[Birn]

That while Pop's commie ass pretends to care about the plight of African Americans he's holding one hostage on his farm. Need anything else explained for you?

Holding him hostage like a slave? He's under contract for one more season you stupid fvck!


Need anything else explained for you, Mr. Racist?

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Holding him hostage like a slave? He's under contract for one more season you stupid fvck!


Need anything else explained for you, Mr. Racist?

He is trolling, dont feed him. I have been on this forum for well over a decade and posting for like 8 years and that dude is the first guy to make my ignore list. It takes a special feat of retardism to achieve that.

[ElNono]

@wojtek 2 mins ago

@tspence reports @JabariJYoung is contemplating the viability of suicide upon realizing the Spurs won't offer Kawhi the supermax, and he won't be sucking Kawhi's cock in LA either. He's wondering what went wrong, considering Windhorst did manage the feat sucking Lebron's cock for over a decade.

[Budkin]

That while Pop's commie ass pretends to care about the plight of African Americans he's holding one hostage on his farm. Need anything else explained for you?

“Commie ass” because he agrees with the majority of the country that Trump is a piece of shit that has no business being president? :lmao

[sammy]

“Commie ass” because he agrees with the majority of the country that Trump is a piece of shit that has no business being president? :lmao

Well said & so true!:bobo Pop is only speaking the truth about that treasonous orange bigot who is a disgrace/embarrassment to the Oval Office!

[17505]

Not sure if anyone has talked about this on here, but it's a little curious that Jeff Ayres, who played for the Spurs in '13-14 and '14-15 and who shares the same agent as Kawhi (Mitch Frankel), is currently playing for the Lakers in Summer League. I still don't think Kawhi ends up with the Lakers, but it's a unique angle nonetheless.

[Pavlov]

That while Pop's commie ass pretends to care about the plight of African Americans he's holding one hostage on his farm. Need anything else explained for you?Just checking. I didn't want to call you a complete idiot without hearing you out first.

You're a complete idiot.

[JPB]

Not sure if anyone has talked about this on here, but it's a little curious that Jeff Ayres, who played for the Spurs in '13-14 and '14-15 and who shares the same agent as Kawhi (Mitch Frankel), is currently playing for the Lakers in Summer League. I still don't think Kawhi ends up with the Lakers, but it's a unique angle nonetheless.

Done deal.

[17505]

Players like Giannis don't normally do well in the playoffs. Teams game plan around their weaknesses and are able to neutralize them somewhat throughout the game. He's a very good player, has a lot of great tools that can't be taught, but for him and his team to go anywhere in the playoffs with him as a number 1 option, he needs to learn to shoot.

Yes he has issues, but he's still clearly a top 10-15 player in this league, and that's probably selling him short. He's also not even in his prime yet. Dude is a beast. I expect the Bucks to be much better this season with Budenholzer as coach, and y'all should know all about that.

[SAGirl]

Wouldn’t be surprised if the Spurs are interested. They liked him coming out of the draft, IIRC.


1018189857506676736
He’s not good and has a fractured foot.

[JPB]

Actually I have been wondering about that from another angle. Most superstar athletes, including Kawhi, have some special charities they fund. So, even if $100MM isn't particularly meaningful to the individual athlete, I am sure that their foundations and such could benefit if their benefactor had an additional $100MM at his disposal.

Then why just 100M. Why not give 300M and keep 100 or even just 10, which is more than you nedd to live happy in this life if people well being is so important to him. Where is the treshold ?

And those 100M would go somewhere else, others players who could also donate or the spurs could donate them if part of it was only dedicated to SM. It's a global economy, that money wasn't specially created for Kawhi Leonard.

And I've been wondering about that from another angle... Why not create a society where a guy playing kid a game isn't paid 10K more time than a professor or social worker dedicated his life to help kids, and instead of buying the last $150 trendy sneakers, people were rather directly donating to charities to help disavantadged people instead of feeding NBA divas like this MOFO and counting on their good will to donate (and benefit from taxes deductions) ?

Why not crteate a society where everybody living a decent life was everybody else's worry ?

" Imagine all the people..."

[JPB]

That’s a dumb question. What can you do with $100 mil you can’t with $0. Glad some people are so privileged that 100 million dollars is point less.

I know what I can do with 1 billion brain cells you can do with only a couple cells.

[r0drig0lac]

Crazy thought . . . if I were the Sixers and could do it all over again here's what I'd do . . .

I'd rather have Fultz (if he's actually healthy mentally/physically and his shot goes back to normal) than Simmons as my PG. Let's face it, Ben will never develop a shot not at the rim. Ship out Simmons with some salary (Chandler?) and get back an elite 3&D wing. Fultz is now the starting PG. Honestly, you might be able to get Jimmy Butler-Minnesota is desperate to move him for something. Now, sign Lebron outright with your cap space (Chandler is gone at this point)-I think he would get serious motivation to play for you guys and sign the same deal he signed with the Lakers . . . 4 years, last year is a player option. Now, go get Kawhi. Throw everything at him. Covington/Saric/Zhaire/2021 Heat pick/other young cheap talent/two of your own future firsts.

So basically you use the fact that Fultz is cheap on his rookie deal and Kawhi and Butler have cheap maxes due to signing their deals under the terms of the old CBA. So your SL would then be Fultz-Butler-Kawhi-LeBron-Joel.

Thoughts?

lmao

[Coach X]

Then why just 100M. Why not give 300M and keep 100 or even just 10, which is more than you nedd to live happy in this life if people well being is so important to him. Where is the treshold ?

And those 100M would go somewhere else, others players who could also donate or the spurs could donate them if part of it was only dedicated to SM. It's a global economy, that money wasn't specially created for Kawhi Leonard.

And I've been wondering about that from another angle... Why not create a society where a guy playing kid a game isn't paid 10K more time than a professor or social worker dedicated his life to help kids, and instead of buying the last $150 trendy sneakers, people were rather directly donating to charities to help disavantadged people instead of feeding NBA divas like this MOFO and counting on their good will to donate (and benefit from taxes deductions) ?

Why not crteate a society where everybody living a decent life was everybody else's worry ?

" Imagine all the people..."
Liberté, égalité, fraternité. Vive la Republique!!

Congratulations for winning the World Cup with a great team of immigrants, mind-fucking stupid nationalists all around the world. Thanks for that!
:bobo

[Namundy]

@wojtek 2 mins ago

@tspence reports @JabariJYoung is contemplating the viability of suicide upon realizing the Spurs won't offer Kawhi the supermax, and he won't be sucking Kawhi's cock in LA either. He's wondering what went wrong, considering Windhorst did manage the feat sucking Lebron's cock for over a decade.

Holy shit :lol

[Coach X]

I too appreciate David Robinson's statements. I don't think he has to choose between his family an the Spurs, but I think he needs to weigh his options carefully. If he stays he's guaranteed a fortune with a team that is known for taking care of their people, even the little guys. If he goes he will certainly lose money, but if that's what he wants no one can stop him...next season. This year he's under contract and needs to play his ass off whether he's planning on staying or not. I'm sorry Pop has had to endure this bullshit after a horribly tragic year, but he is the consummate professional and will handle this fine I'm sure.
I think one of the keys here is the difference between his group and his family. Group: Uncle, agent, others (journalists, etc.) vs Family: Mom, wife, kids? uncle, sister. Uncle is in both groups and that's what Kawhi and he will have to solve.
If I were Popovich or Bufford I would talk to Kawhi's mum, uncle's sister. Explain to her the situation and plans, showing you care for her son. Try to build bridges, fix as much as possible. Bring her on board and you almost get Kawhi. She is probably the only person able of making work that Spurs-Leonard-Uncle triangle.

[exstatic]

I think one of the keys here is the difference between his group and his family. Group: Uncle, agent, others (journalists, etc.) vs Family: Mom, wife, kids? uncle, sister. Uncle is in both groups and that's what Kawhi and he will have to solve.
If I were Popovich or Bufford I would talk to Kawhi's mum, uncle's sister. Explain to her the situation and plans, showing you care for her son. Try to build bridges, fix as much as possible. Bring her on board and you almost get Kawhi. She is probably the only person able of making work that Spurs-Leonard-Uncle triangle.
It’s one and the same. As part of the depositions for Kahwis former agents suit against Impact, it was revealed that Uncle Fester and Moms have both been on Impacts payroll for at least 5 years.

[Strategic]

No, he's saying that you if don't want to play ball, there's nothing more to say. The Spurs are the ones with Kawhi, and at the end of the day, having him for another year is worth quite a bit. If Philly isn't willing to get to that value threshold, they won't get him, regardless of how low Leonard's "trade value" is. With auctions, not only are there usually opening bids to set a floor on the price, but there's often a secret number the bidding has to reach in order for the object to get sold. A room full of bidders can't conspire to buy a yacht for a dollar. You don't want Philly to make a minimum bid. That's fine. But then they won't get Leonard. Simple as that. .........In a perfect world, but this story is wrought with mystery and unsavory characters. Unless KL is bound and gagged, this is his doing.

[picnroll]

Bringing Leonard into camp is a shit storm only for Leonard. If he plays the bitch in camp other players will only think he’s a non-professional a-hole. Other than that they won’t be affected since they’re actually professionals.

[Twisted_Dawg]

@wojtek 2 mins ago

@tspence reports @JabariJYoung is contemplating the viability of suicide upon realizing the Spurs won't offer Kawhi the supermax, and he won't be sucking Kawhi's cock in LA either. He's wondering what went wrong, considering Windhorst did manage the feat sucking Lebron's cock for over a decade.

@tspence classic. Rack him!

[daledondale]

@wojtek 2 mins ago

@tspence reports @JabariJYoung is contemplating the viability of suicide upon realizing the Spurs won't offer Kawhi the supermax, and he won't be sucking Kawhi's cock in LA either. He's wondering what went wrong, considering Windhorst did manage the feat sucking Lebron's cock for over a decade.

[pgardn]

Then why just 100M. Why not give 300M and keep 100 or even just 10, which is more than you nedd to live happy in this life if people well being is so important to him. Where is the treshold ?

And those 100M would go somewhere else, others players who could also donate or the spurs could donate them if part of it was only dedicated to SM. It's a global economy, that money wasn't specially created for Kawhi Leonard.

And I've been wondering about that from another angle... Why not create a society where a guy playing kid a game isn't paid 10K more time than a professor or social worker dedicated his life to help kids, and instead of buying the last $150 trendy sneakers, people were rather directly donating to charities to help disavantadged people instead of feeding NBA divas like this MOFO and counting on their good will to donate (and benefit from taxes deductions) ?

Why not crteate a society where everybody living a decent life was everybody else's worry ?

" Imagine all the people..."

The people have decided they liked to be entertained.
So much so, they will watch large people run back and forth while at the same time watching commercials that apparently work in selling products. Welcome to the US. And the “free” market. Entertainment is incredibly important in our current state. Entertainment does not come from reading a good book on physics, trying to work out problems, applying to real world problems and sharing. Nor does it come from helping poor and or sick people. Apparently this is the current state of affairs as we discuss this on a sports message board rather hypocritically...

[MoSpur02]

Not sure if anyone has talked about this on here, but it's a little curious that Jeff Ayres, who played for the Spurs in '13-14 and '14-15 and who shares the same agent as Kawhi (Mitch Frankel), is currently playing for the Lakers in Summer League. I still don't think Kawhi ends up with the Lakers, but it's a unique angle nonetheless.

Yeah he represents Ayres and a couple of other players without teams. It's had really. This agent has a list of players. None of them signed on current teams EXCEPT Kawhi. You would think Kawhi Leonard who is a MVP type player with other awards understand his belt would have a more reputable and established agent.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Not sure if anyone has talked about this on here, but it's a little curious that Jeff Ayres, who played for the Spurs in '13-14 and '14-15 and who shares the same agent as Kawhi (Mitch Frankel), is currently playing for the Lakers in Summer League. I still don't think Kawhi ends up with the Lakers, but it's a unique angle nonetheless.


What?!! I thought the summer league was primarily for rookies. People have seen enough of Jeff Ayers to know what his game consists of.

[picnroll]

What?!! I thought the summer league was primarily for rookies. People have seen enough of Jeff Ayers to know what his game consists of.
A limitless bonus to Leonard’s agent from the non-tampering Lakers of course.

[acoelho1]

No, he's saying that you if don't want to play ball, there's nothing more to say. The Spurs are the ones with Kawhi, and at the end of the day, having him for another year is worth quite a bit. If Philly isn't willing to get to that value threshold, they won't get him, regardless of how low Leonard's "trade value" is. With auctions, not only are there usually opening bids to set a floor on the price, but there's often a secret number the bidding has to reach in order for the object to get sold. A room full of bidders can't conspire to buy a yacht for a dollar. You don't want Philly to make a minimum bid. That's fine. But then they won't get Leonard. Simple as that.

Right! Philly has no leverage here in that Kawhi will either be traded somewhere else, stays in SA or he walks to one of the L.A. teams. I can't imagine Kawhi leaving this Philly squad with Simmons and Embiid and I'm sure Philly probably thinks this. They would be the most dangerous team in the East in my opinion so it would be insane to not include Fultz.

[Keepin' it real]

He traded yet?

[FireMicoHalili]

Yeah he represents Ayres and a couple of other players without teams. It's had really. This agent has a list of players. None of them signed on current teams EXCEPT Kawhi. You would think Kawhi Leonard who is a MVP type player with other awards understand his belt would have a more reputable and established agent.
Ayres, Dwayne Collins, Jarvis Varnado, Stephan Hicks, Joe Jackson, JJ O’Brien, Sir Dominique Pointier, Glen Rice Jr, Sylvester Seay, Kawhi Leonard. Quite clear why they’re trying to make Leonard a brand.

[dabom]

A limitless bonus to Leonard’s agent from the non-tampering Lakers of course.

Now Kawhis group can talk to Lakers group without anything looking suspicious.

[FireMicoHalili]

And ya laker fans with shit players think they gonna amount to anything. :lol
They’re so high on their young core but apparently are willing to part with them in a trade for Leonard. When they say young core I think they just mean Ball and Ingram since Hart and Kuzma are expendable while they just let Randle walk. I wonder how those kids feel knowing they were dangled for a trade this summer. Going to be interesting to see how Ball reacts in case Walton benches him in favor of Rondo.

[FireMicoHalili]

No i rate Fultz extremely highly. Funny how half this forum doesn't rate Fultz yet want him in deal with us.
Both Leonard and Fultz have what ifs dangling over their heads. How you view Fultz is probably how Spurs fans view Leonard, though Fultz is largely unproven. Most of us have seen what Leonard can do at his best, whereas Fultz has YouTube highlights I guess.

[FkLA]

Damn, I was wondering wtf Ayers was doing on the Lakers SL team at his age. Didn't know he had the same car agent as Kawhitter. It makes sense now smh.

[Killakobe81]

They’re so high on their young core but apparently are willing to part with them in a trade for Leonard. When they say young core I think they just mean Ball and Ingram since Hart and Kuzma are expendable while they just let Randle walk. I wonder how those kids feel knowing they were dangled for a trade this summer. Going to be interesting to see how Ball reacts in case Walton benches him in favor of Rondo.

Hart and Kuzma are not expendable.
Kuzma has been the face of the franchise in off season promotions and deemed untouchable by some sources close to the team. Hart less valuable but has shown encouraging improvement in SL.
Again I understand opinions/evaluations on our young core is unrealistic on LG but undervalued here.
I think Kuzma can be an elite 6th man or solid 5 starter. I think Hart can be a good combo guard as part of a bench rotation on a contender. And Ingram can be a high level #2.
THE worry is Lonzo. Even if he improves his shooting which I expect, he has been injured to often for a young guy...

[Mugen]

Hart and Kuzma are not expendable.
Kuzma has been the face of the franchise in off season promotions and deemed untouchable by some sources close to the team. Hart less valuable but has shown encouraging improvement in SL.
Again I understand opinions/evaluations on our young core is unrealistic on LG but undervalued here.
I think Kuzma can be an elite 6th man or solid 5 starter. I think Hart can be a good combo guard as part of a bench rotation on a contender. And Ingram can be a high level #2.THE worry is Lonzo. Even if he improves his shooting which I expect, he has been injured to often for a young guy...

:lmao

[FkLA]

Kuzma face of the franchise :lmao

[Killakobe81]

Kuzma face of the franchise :lmao

I said in off season promos.
Obviously now that Bron has signed the world has changed but only so much. It was Kuzma on Area 21, First Take and Undisputed during the playoffs. Not Ingram or Lonzo. It was Kuzma who is doing meets with season ticket holders.
You guys think the King is gonna do Any of that?! Nor should hee expected to. Whether he deserves or or not Kuzmania is real. Lakers Fans especially the female ones have gravitated to Kyle.

[FireMicoHalili]

Hart and Kuzma are not expendable.
Kuzma has been the face of the franchise in off season promotions and deemed untouchable by some sources close to the team. Hart less valuable but has shown encouraging improvement in SL.
Again I understand opinions/evaluations on our young core is unrealistic on LG but undervalued here.
I think Kuzma can be an elite 6th man or solid 5 starter. I think Hart can be a good combo guard as part of a bench rotation on a contender. And Ingram can be a high level #2.
THE worry is Lonzo. Even if he improves his shooting which I expect, he has been injured to often for a young guy...
The Lakers just offered them for Leonard...unless all those reports were false or we’re reading vastly different sets of news. If they were convinced with the young core they shouldn’t have offered any of these guys for Leonard. I don’t know how you can say they’re not expendable when the team expressed willingness to part with them to acquire another player. I’m well aware Kuzma made the all-rookie second team while Hart played better than expected for a 30th overall pick but they haven’t really proven anything. I understand the potential is alluring especially with an otherworldly talent like James, who will make these kids undoubtedly better. I wouldn’t go as far as saying they’re undervalued but at the same time the whole young core argument seems like sour graping after failing to land Kawhi.

[Killakobe81]

:lmao

Elite 6th men and Solid rotation pieces are key to winning titles, Spur fan should appreciate that more than most.

[cool cat]

I know what I can do with 1 billion brain cells you can do with only a couple cells.

Thanks for the compliment.

[mo7888]

Hart and Kuzma are not expendable.
Kuzma has been the face of the franchise in off season promotions and deemed untouchable by some sources close to the team. Hart less valuable but has shown encouraging improvement in SL.
Again I understand opinions/evaluations on our young core is unrealistic on LG but undervalued here.
I think Kuzma can be an elite 6th man or solid 5 starter. I think Hart can be a good combo guard as part of a bench rotation on a contender. And Ingram can be a high level #2.
THE worry is Lonzo. Even if he improves his shooting which I expect, he has been injured to often for a young guy...

Honestly, I'm not Interested in kuzma and I'm not sure the spurs are either. Speaking strictly from my opinion (not saying the spurs see it this way) I would want Ingram, mo wagner, lonzo traded to a 3rd team and the assets it generates coming to the Spurs plus a 1st pick from LA.

I think Wagner will be a better long term player than kuzma because he's much bigger and his outside shot is just as good plus his rookie contract is in place a year longer. I also think lonzo would generate a good haul, something like JJ and a pick or bender from Phoenix . That's the kind of laker trade I'd like and I also think Magic can spin that he held the line on kuzma and Hart so he gets a win in the press conference.

[Killakobe81]

The Lakers just offered them for Leonard...unless all those reports were false or we’re reading vastly different sets of news. If they were convinced with the young core they shouldn’t have offered any of these guys for Leonard. I don’t know how you can say they’re not expendable when the team expressed willingness to part with them to acquire another player. I’m well aware Kuzma made the all-rookie second team while Hart played better than expected for a 30th overall pick but they haven’t really proven anything. I understand the potential is alluring especially with an otherworldly talent like James, who will make these kids undoubtedly better. I wouldn’t go as far as saying they’re undervalued but at the same time the whole young core argument seems like sour graping after failing to land Kawhi.

SOME Reports say Kuzma was not included.
Me personally I would include Kuzma/Hart just not INGRAM...
Saying I would trade two assets for a top 5 player does not mean they are "expendable" Just not "untouchable". FOR Me, expendable means they could be had on the cheap. Getting a return of KL is not cheap.
And the undervalue comes when Spur fan says Ingram and Kuz are trash greeting nothing for KL when after watching Josh Jackson play in SL I am not sure I would trade Kuzma for him straight up...
Now I do think Jackson has more upside than Kuz but if so shouldn't he dominate SL games as 2nd year guy like Josh Hart is? Or Kuz did last year?

[FireMicoHalili]

Honestly, I'm not Interested in kuzma and I'm not sure the spurs are either. Speaking strictly from my opinion (not saying the spurs see it this way) I would want Ingram, mo wagner, lonzo traded to a 3rd team and the assets it generates coming to the Spurs plus a 1st pick from LA.

I think Wagner will be a better long term player than kuzma because he's much bigger and his outside shot is just as good plus his rookie contract is in place a year longer. I also think lonzo would generate a good haul, something like JJ and a pick or bender from Phoenix . That's the kind of laker trade I'd like and I also think Magic can spin that he held the line on kuzma and Hart so he gets a win in the press conference.
The Spurs worked out Kuzma prior to 2017 NBA Draft. With how he played last year I’m sure he was high up the Spurs’ draft board. https://hoopshype.com/2017/12/29/kyle-kuzma-san-antonio-spurs-nba-draft-lakers/

[Fusternino]

SOME Reports say Kuzma was not included.
Me personally I would include Kuzma/Hart just not INGRAM...
Saying I would trade two assets for a top 5 player does not mean they are "expendable" Just not "untouchable". FOR Me, expendable means they could be had on the cheap. Getting a return of KL is not cheap.
And the undervalue comes when Spur fan says Ingram and Kuz are trash greeting nothing for KL when after watching Josh Jackson play in SL I am not sure I would trade Kuzma for him straight up...
Now I do think Jackson has more upside than Kuz but if so shouldn't he dominate SL games as 2nd year guy like Josh Hart is? Or Kuz did last year?

I thought Josh Jackson was a bad pick from right about when he was drafted. Completely broken shot.

[mo7888]

The Spurs worked out Kuzma prior to 2017 NBA Draft. With how he played last year I’m sure he was high up the Spurs’ draft board. https://hoopshype.com/2017/12/29/kyle-kuzma-san-antonio-spurs-nba-draft-lakers/

I'm sure he was as a pick in the late 20's. We are talking about a much different context now. The spurs lived him at 27 or so but, would they love him at 10? 15? So the context matters.

[Killakobe81]

Honestly, I'm not Interested in kuzma and I'm not sure the spurs are either. Speaking strictly from my opinion (not saying the spurs see it this way) I would want Ingram, mo wagner, lonzo traded to a 3rd team and the assets it generates coming to the Spurs plus a 1st pick from LA.

I think Wagner will be a better long term player than kuzma because he's much bigger and his outside shot is just as good plus his rookie contract is in place a year longer. I also think lonzo would generate a good haul, something like JJ and a pick or bender from Phoenix . That's the kind of laker trade I'd like and I also think Magic can spin that he held the line on kuzma and Hart so he gets a win in the press conference.

Fair points.
I'm not even suggesting that Spurs should accept a Kuzma centered deal. Just saying he in not "trash". I THINK he can be a syrong starter on bad to mediocre team but I am hoping for us he is the, 6th man because if he is your 6th man means you have a strong team. Some on LG want to crown him a star so badly and if he continues to to exceed expectations, great. I will be happy to be wrong but contenders need guys like Kuzma playing the Robert Horry, Odom Iggy type roles too.

[Killakobe81]

I'm sure he was as a pick in the late 20's. We are talking about a much different context now. The spurs lived him at 27 or so but, would they love him at 10? 15? So the context matters.

Pretty sure not 10 better players than Kuzma in last year's draft. Anything after 10 "would still be great value" for Kuzma.

[FireMicoHalili]

SOME Reports say Kuzma was not included.
Me personally I would include Kuzma/Hart just not INGRAM...
Saying I would trade two assets for a top 5 player does not mean they are "expendable" Just not "untouchable". FOR Me, expendable means they could be had on the cheap. Getting a return of KL is not cheap.
And the undervalue comes when Spur fan says Ingram and Kuz are trash greeting nothing for KL when after watching Josh Jackson play in SL I am not sure I would trade Kuzma for him straight up...
Now I do think Jackson has more upside than Kuz but if so shouldn't he dominate SL games as 2nd year guy like Josh Hart is? Or Kuz did last year?
Certainly isn’t cheap. I understand one team has to get the short end of the stick but the Spurs made it clear that wasn’t going to be them. I don’t get the whole “that’s okay, we’re invested in our young core anyway” swerve after punting on a trade. It’s either you whiffed or you didn’t, and the clear message is that the trade package simply wasn’t good enough. Why are these players the only ones the Lakers were willing to part with? Why were they willing to part with them, but only them?

[DPG21920]

Kuzma isn’t trash. Neither is Ingram. But people acting like they are already really good are wrong. They could be, they should develop more but as of today they aren’t even above average players.

It will be fascinating to watch LA this season. They are apparently doubling down on their 3 year window with Bron based on their core developing. If Ingram doesn’t make a Kawhi like leap it will be a BIG issue. They need and expect Ingram to be a legit number 2 on a title team and they don’t have 4 years for that to happen. It has to happen NEXT season or else you are now going into year 2 of Lebron a year older and now no true number 2 on the team (and Ingram’s upside sell further damaged).

If he makes the leap? They are in great shape. Will be very interesting.

[Killakobe81]

Kuzma isn’t trash. Neither is Ingram. But people acting like they are already really good are wrong. They could be, they should develop more but as of today they aren’t even above average players.

It will be fascinating to watch LA this season. They are apparently doubling down on their 3 year window with Bron based on their core developing. If Ingram doesn’t make a Kawhi like leap it will be a BIG issue. They need and expect Ingram to be a legit number 2 on a title team and they don’t have 4 years for that to happen. It has to happen NEXT season or else you are now going into year 2 of Lebron a year older and now no true number 2 on the team (and Ingram’s upside sell further damaged).

If he makes the leap? They are in great shape. Will be very interesting.

I agree pressure is on Ingram.
He was considered untouchable in deals for PG and Kawhi in back to back years. I think KL is to high a bar to expect him to reach in year 3, But I think PG is attainable.
We will see.
I also understand why Kuzma/Hart and first is not enough also. As DPG says it's still unproven.

[mo7888]

Fair points.
I'm not even suggesting that Spurs should accept a Kuzma centered deal. Just saying he in not "trash". I THINK he can be a syrong starter on bad to mediocre team but I am hoping for us he is the, 6th man because if he is your 6th man means you have a strong team. Some on LG want to crown him a star so badly and if he continues to to exceed expectations, great. I will be happy to be wrong but contenders need guys like Kuzma playing the Robert Horry, Odom Iggy type roles too.

I don't think he's trash. I think he's a valuable role play and I think he fits better next to LeBron than Ingram (even though Ingram has a much higher ceiling).

[Killakobe81]

Kuzma isn’t trash. Neither is Ingram. But people acting like they are already really good are wrong. They could be, they should develop more but as of today they aren’t even above average players.

It will be fascinating to watch LA this season. They are apparently doubling down on their 3 year window with Bron based on their core developing. If Ingram doesn’t make a Kawhi like leap it will be a BIG issue. They need and expect Ingram to be a legit number 2 on a title team and they don’t have 4 years for that to happen. It has to happen NEXT season or else you are now going into year 2 of Lebron a year older and now no true number 2 on the team (and Ingram’s upside sell further damaged).

If he makes the leap? They are in great shape. Will be very interesting.

I agree pressure is on Ingram.
He was considered untouchable in deals for PG and Kawhi in back to back years. I think KL is to high a bar to expect him to reach in year 3, But I think PG is attainable.
We will see.
I also understand why Kuzma/Hart and first is not enough also. As DPG says it's still unproven.

[FireMicoHalili]

Kuzma isn’t trash. Neither is Ingram. But people acting like they are already really good are wrong. They could be, they should develop more but as of today they aren’t even above average players.

It will be fascinating to watch LA this season. They are apparently doubling down on their 3 year window with Bron based on their core developing. If Ingram doesn’t make a Kawhi like leap it will be a BIG issue. They need and expect Ingram to be a legit number 2 on a title team and they don’t have 4 years for that to happen. It has to happen NEXT season or else you are now going into year 2 of Lebron a year older and now no true number 2 on the team (and Ingram’s upside sell further damaged).

If he makes the leap? They are in great shape. Will be very interesting.
There’s a disconnect with how they see their young players based on their potential and their actual achievements. The kids will do great this year since all defenses are focusing on LeBron while Kuzma and Ingram have less defensive pressure to deal with. Add to that the fact they’re probably climbing to the playoffs from the bottom of the barrel, the fans have a lot to be happy about. I personally think their fan base thought they could get a disgruntled star on the cheap as they always had e.g. Gasol, Howard, and Nash, but they really should have been content with that nice handful of young players they highly value.

[SupremeGuy]

He is trolling, dont feed him. I have been on this forum for well over a decade and posting for like 8 years and that dude is the first guy to make my ignore list. It takes a special feat of retardism to achieve that.Burying your head in the sand is quite pathetic, tbh. Grow some nuts.

[SupremeGuy]

“Commie ass” because he agrees with the majority of the country that Trump is a piece of shit that has no business being president? :lmaoHas no business other than the fact that he won in a electoral college landslide? :lmao

It's great watching win piss off so many retarded leftists that hate America and her values.

[cutewizard]

Fuck LA

[monkeypunk]

It's great watching win piss off so many retarded leftists that hate America and her values.

You obviously have no clue what America is or what her values are.

You've got a great grasp on your own racist needs that he is enabling so there's that I guess.

You're still an idiot and your "president" is still a Russian puppet that will spend the rest of his life in prison, getting viciously cornholed by every race under the sun.

[moisaenz]

You obviously have no clue what America is or what her values are.

You've got a great grasp on your own racist needs that he is enabling so there's that I guess.

You're still an idiot and your "president" is still a Russian puppet that will spend the rest of his life in prison, getting viciously cornholed by every race under the son.

because hillary isnt a puppet right...
she is her own woman.

[Dverde]

Kuzma isn’t trash. Neither is Ingram. But people acting like they are already really good are wrong. They could be, they should develop more but as of today they aren’t even above average players.

It will be fascinating to watch LA this season. They are apparently doubling down on their 3 year window with Bron based on their core developing. If Ingram doesn’t make a Kawhi like leap it will be a BIG issue. They need and expect Ingram to be a legit number 2 on a title team and they don’t have 4 years for that to happen. It has to happen NEXT season or else you are now going into year 2 of Lebron a year older and now no true number 2 on the team (and Ingram’s upside sell further damaged).

If he makes the leap? They are in great shape. Will be very interesting.

Kuzma isn’t trash more like a dollar bill you find in the grass at a park.

[dabom]

Has no business other than the fact that he won in a electoral college landslide? :lmao

It's great watching win piss off so many retarded leftists that hate America and her values.

That wasn't an electoral college landslide. Wtf you smoking. Those margins were weak. :lol

I'm not debating his presidency though.

[JPB]

The people have decided they liked to be entertained.
So much so, they will watch large people run back and forth while at the same time watching commercials that apparently work in selling products. Welcome to the US. And the “free” market. Entertainment is incredibly important in our current state. Entertainment does not come from reading a good book on physics, trying to work out problems, applying to real world problems and sharing. Nor does it come from helping poor and or sick people. Apparently this is the current state of affairs as we discuss this on a sports message board rather hypocritically...

I'm not gonna indeed engage in an analysis of "The Society of the Spectacle" by Guy Debord and my post wasn't a societal stance but just a semi-ironic remark to dudes with an always fascinating lack of perspective and moderation regarding that kind of topics.

And I'm not questionig the way of life of my murican fellows, far from it, as like in most western societies, it has produced (somehow) the most prosperous, creative and stable nations.

But what can you answer to that, except note that it's possible for a brain to generate such a thought then order the lips to enounce it without at any moment something saying "wait, this is fucking stupid" :




What can you do with $500M you can't with 400, tbh ?.




That’s a dumb question. What can you do with $100 mil you can’t with $0. Glad some people are so privileged that 100 million dollars is point less.

Entertainment has always been important in any society and even a big part of social link and cohesion and NBA players are not stealing their money (except Leonard this year).

But allow me to disagree with you, entertainment can definitely come from reading a book about physics, trying to work out problems, applying to real problems or sharing. And great entertainement at that.

[rascal]

Has no business other than the fact that he won in a electoral college landslide? :lmao

It's great watching win piss off so many retarded leftists that hate America and her values.

How did this thread become political?

[palangi]

:lmao

I don't get you laughing about this other than you just being a chick too the laker fan or you are basketball dumb. I'd think kuzma showed plenty to be a very effective 6th man

[raybies]

Burying your head in the sand is quite pathetic, tbh. Grow some nuts.
I feel bad for you that you think everyone is worth your time.

[Fusternino]

We can still waive Forbes and stretch his contract, right? Look I feel bad for the guy given his story . . . I'd be OK giving him a free $1-2M and then giving him a good recommendation to get onto another team. But our roster space is really cramped right now.

[noles1983]

Has no business other than the fact that he won in a electoral college landslide? :lmao

It's great watching win piss off so many retarded leftists that hate America and her values.

fucking traitor, funny you talk about American values. This country needs to purge fucks like you, tbh.

[Killakobe81]

There’s a disconnect with how they see their young players based on their potential and their actual achievements. The kids will do great this year since all defenses are focusing on LeBron while Kuzma and Ingram have less defensive pressure to deal with. Add to that the fact they’re probably climbing to the playoffs from the bottom of the barrel, the fans have a lot to be happy about. I personally think their fan base thought they could get a disgruntled star on the cheap as they always had e.g. Gasol, Howard, and Nash, but they really should have been content with that nice handful of young players they highly value.

I agree even Ingram hasnt done all that much, yet.
Its gambling on the hot stock versus a tried and true longtern annuity ...
Though Lebron adds pressure and shortens our time-line I did not want to part with Ingram.
And as far as Maginka's "spin" (Magic has been unusually quiet overall) what should they say ...my guess is the trade speculation can have a negative affect on the team. So of course they gonna say they did not want to break up their "young core" what else are they supposed to say? Everyone but Ingram and Lebron is untouchable?! My guess part of the reason Randle wanted out (besides his shitty agent) was the thought that in a contract year being third fiddle to a potential Lebron/KL would not be ideal going in to another big contract year. But instead of saying all than Pelinka says Randle was great, was our best player last year and though we wanted him back we werent willing to offer more than a one year deal because it would hamper our cap space in 2019.
you dont have to be a genius to cut through the BS and the spin.
IF Spurs really would just accept Kuzma a first and hart ...I think deal would be done. But my guess Spurs wanted more and since Lakers have been marketing Klye the spin is now Kuzma was off the table. Not saying they dont like or even love Kuzma. But I have a hard time buying that Kuzma/Hart and a first ..wouldnt be considered a "win" in a KL deal ...by the Lakers. probably an "L" for Spurs though.

[DPG21920]

I agree with Killa - they aren’t going to throw the young guys under the bus until they have to. But I honestly think that LA learned nothing from PG and is truly making a mistake if they are willing to lose out on Kawhi because they can sign Butler or something next year.

Kawhi is the special kind of player. They are rare.

But the young guys are a huge gamble for LA. Any injury and misstep and they may have a disaster on their hands landing Bron and doing nothing with it.

[Fusternino]

I agree that Magic is making a huge mistake. I legitimately believe Jerry West is doing everything he can to send us a package for Kawhi.

I'm also not convinced Kawhi's group is truly that incompetent that they wouldn't be able to leverage the Toronto media market for massive endorsements. Well, I believe they are truly that incompetent but I also think that once they'd get there they'd be more motivated than they are now.

[JPB]

Kuzma isn’t trash. Neither is Ingram. But people acting like they are already really good are wrong. They could be, they should develop more but as of today they aren’t even above average players.

It will be fascinating to watch LA this season. They are apparently doubling down on their 3 year window with Bron based on their core developing. If Ingram doesn’t make a Kawhi like leap it will be a BIG issue. They need and expect Ingram to be a legit number 2 on a title team and they don’t have 4 years for that to happen. It has to happen NEXT season or else you are now going into year 2 of Lebron a year older and now no true number 2 on the team (and Ingram’s upside sell further damaged).

If he makes the leap? They are in great shape. Will be very interesting.

This is what people saying spurs have no leverage don't integrate in their reasoning and why they're in no rush to make a deal.

They are not a team who just signed a superstar or is is one piece away from a title. Pressure is not on them, RC or Pop's jobs are not at stake and SA fans are not a frustrated brass with big expectations.

It basically boils down to Kawhi's health now. If he can sow is 100%, teams will up their offers.

[SupremeGuy]

I feel bad for you that you think everyone is worth your time.What the fuck are you trying to say?

[Killakobe81]

I agree with Killa - they aren’t going to throw the young guys under the bus until they have to. But I honestly think that LA learned nothing from PG and is truly making a mistake if they are willing to lose out on Kawhi because they can sign Butler or something next year.

Kawhi is the special kind of player. They are rare.

But the young guys are a huge gamble for LA. Any injury and misstep and they may have a disaster on their hands landing Bron and doing nothing with it.

PG will prove the old adage ... some of the best deals you make are the ones you don't.
I dont like Jimmy Butler. He is not really all that close to a fully healthy Kawhi.
But if the choice is Ingram Kuzma and Butler ...
versus ...
Kawhi
I would take the former as a supporting cast for LeBron.

Remember state built part of their run on having some talent in-house. In a sa;ary capped league tough to build with only FA signess.
Even Heatles had WAde and 2008-2010 Celts had Pierce.
Mavs had Dirk.

Lakers need at least one of the core to hit big.

[monkeypunk]

because hillary isnt a puppet right...
she is her own woman.

Your puppet all but showed Putin's hand up his ass today, if you weren't paying attention.

Hillary would have driven Putin into the ground, which was the entire point of Putin attacking the US to install the orange traitor.

If you don't see that, you're trolling and can go fuck yourself straight back to whatever fascist country you admire.

[DD]

OT, but I think Svi and Wagner could see minutes this year with their shooting abilities. Both of them are too frail at this point body-wise, but some decent minutes on a middling WC playoff team could make them grow faster and expose them to some tough, valuable competition at an early age. Could give us an indicator if they are capable of playing at the next level

[raybies]

New Conspiracy Theory:

What if Kawhi knows his career is doomed and the Spurs and him are working together to help the only org he’s ever loved find suitable replacements. So he leaked LA so he can do a human sacrifice to take LA out and do the Spurs the greatest deed of all; get their young players and nuke them financially for several years. God bless Leonard. His group just trying to protect us and help us but us blind sheep don’t know the truth. He fights for us.

[SupremeGuy]

fucking traitor, funny you talk about American values. This country needs to purge fucks like you, tbh.The traitors are the faggots who run around in pussy costumes, don't know which gender they belong to, hate American exceptionalism, and are trying to steal a presidency from the people. It's going to be fun swimming in all of your tears when President Trump swears in Brett Kavanaugh.

[baseline bum]

Hart and Kuzma are not expendable.
Kuzma has been the face of the franchise in off season promotions and deemed untouchable by some sources close to the team. Hart less valuable but has shown encouraging improvement in SL.
Again I understand opinions/evaluations on our young core is unrealistic on LG but undervalued here.
I think Kuzma can be an elite 6th man or solid 5 starter. I think Hart can be a good combo guard as part of a bench rotation on a contender. And Ingram can be a high level #2.
THE worry is Lonzo. Even if he improves his shooting which I expect, he has been injured to often for a young guy...

Kuzma untouchable. :lmao

Could you imagine Spurs fan calling Kyle Anderson untouchable? :lol

[ducks]

because hillary isnt a puppet right...
she is her own woman.

she puppet

[baseline bum]

The traitors are the faggots who run around in pussy costumes, don't know which gender they belong to, hate American exceptionalism, and are trying to steal a presidency from the people. It's going to be fun swimming in all of your tears when President Trump swears in Brett Kavanaugh.

The people :lol

The people voted for Clinton by almost 3 million votes

Trump being the peoples' president :lmao

[SupremeGuy]

Your puppet all but showed Putin's hand up his ass today, if you weren't paying attention.

Hillary would have driven Putin into the ground, which was the entire point of Putin attacking the US to install the orange traitor.

If you don't see that, you're trolling and can go fuck yourself straight back to whatever fascist country you admire.And by driving him into the ground, you mean selling him more of our uranium, right? Fuck you, commie.

[noles1983]

The traitors are the faggots who run around in pussy costumes, don't know which gender they belong to, hate American exceptionalism, and are trying to steal a presidency from the people. It's going to be fun swimming in all of your tears when President Trump swears in Brett Kavanaugh.

Fucking nazi

[cd98]

Your puppet all but showed Putin's hand up his ass today, if you weren't paying attention.

Hillary would have driven Putin into the ground, which was the entire point of Putin attacking the US to install the orange traitor.

If you don't see that, you're trolling and can go fuck yourself straight back to whatever fascist country you admire.

Don't hijack this thread with useless political commentary. Both parties have been laughably bad on Russia. From Obama laughing off Mitt Romney's claim that Russia was our No. 1 Geopolitical foe to Hillary and her stupid reset and then Trump openly ignoring the obvious tampering that Russia did in this last election. It's pretty sad on all fronts.

[ducks]

And by driving him into the ground, you mean selling him more of our uranium, right? Fuck you, commie.



she would have given him 150 billion in cash like ...

[Fusternino]

Assuming we keep Kawhi and Manu stays-then how do we fill out the rest of our roster? Waiving BP3 brings us down to 8 guards and 13 players. Our front court is depleted. I'm not seeing any viable UFAs other than Greg Monroe. We would need to fill the other position using in-house resources. Milutinov? Metu? Okafor? Monroe?

What about giving someone from Austin the minimum? Is LJC totally done at this point?

[SupremeGuy]

The people :lol

The people voted for Clinton by almost 3 million votes

Trump being the peoples' president :lmaohttp://thehill.com/sites/default/files/styles/thumb_small_article/public/trump_map_tweet.png

Cry more. :lol

[ducks]

The people :lol

The people voted for Clinton by almost 3 million votes

Trump being the peoples' president :lmao

3 million votes in cal that they do not even need to show id to vote


but must show id to get refund at walmart

[ducks]

Kuzma untouchable. :lmao

Could you imagine Spurs fan calling Kyle Anderson untouchable? :lol
:bobo

[baseline bum]

http://thehill.com/sites/default/files/styles/thumb_small_article/public/trump_map_tweet.png

Cry more. :lol

Just correcting your retarded talking point

[noles1983]

http://thehill.com/sites/default/files/styles/thumb_small_article/public/trump_map_tweet.png

Cry more. :lol

You do realize that all that red has more cows than people right? You just used a map that shows the abundance of cow pies to try and illustrate your brain fart. Inbred.

[spurraider21]

Hart
Kuzma

not expendable
this literally just means you're not serious about making a trade

[spurraider21]

i didnt realize that land votes in elections

[ducks]

Just correcting your retarded talking point

306 only need 270 all said he never get there

when he wins again it will be funnier

[ducks]

i didnt realize that land votes in elections
also you did not realize the election is over and you should move on!

[baseline bum]

306 only need 270 all said he never get there

when he wins again it will be funnier

He very well could if the DNC nominates another center-right piece of shit like Clinton.

[noles1983]

also you did not realize the election is over and you should move on!

Your fellow nazi brought it up, not us

[picnroll]

Great. Another thread hijacked by political bullshit. Take it to the politics forum.

[noles1983]

Great. Another thread hijacked by political bullshit. Take it to the politics forum.

It helps us get to 600 faster :lol

[TimDunkem]

Stop talking about politics in here you stupid fucks.

[KDKSpurs24]

Stop talking about politics in here you stupid fucks.

[ducks]

That while Pop's commie ass pretends to care about the plight of African Americans he's holding one hostage on his farm. Need anything else explained for you?

how is he holding him hostage
spurs did not have to pay him after he quite on them
spurs played nice
spurs easily could have suspened him without pay

[cool cat]

Major props to DPG who is on point and killing it on Twitter

1018859731534872576

1018903406067503104

[Killakobe81]

He very well could if the DNC nominates another center-right piece of shit like Clinton.

I dont think a definitive front-runner has emerged.
I am not in the Trump will surely wiin again panic mode yet (but he is the worst), but if another Hillary type or a Bernie liberal (not knocking just being honest) is the best the DNC can do than he absolutely will win again.

[Killakobe81]

Major props to DPG who is on point and killing it on Twitter

1018859731534872576

1018903406067503104

Some good points ...until he brings up Paul George.
Agree with the rest though it is a risk for LAkers/Sixers/Clippers etc.

[baseline bum]

I dont think a definitive front-runner has emerged.
I am not in the Trump will surely wiin again panic mode yet (but he is the worst), but if another Hillary type or a Bernie liberal (not knocking just being honest) is the best the DNC can do than he absolutely will win again.

Once Bernie won Michigan and Wisconsin that should have been a huge wake-up call to the superdelegates in the DNC to flip their votes. Hillary running up the score in the deep south wasn't going to do shit to get a democrat in the white house.

[Killakobe81]

Once Bernie won Michigan and Wisconsin that should have been a huge wake-up call to the superdelegates in the DNC to flip their votes. Hillary running up the score in the deep south wasn't going to do shit to get a democrat in the white house.

Would have been interesting.
I will say this, true liberals in the DNC and in the voter base especially, loved Bernie. Much more than Hillary supporters loved her. I think hilary's base among casual votersand DP rank & file was it would nice to see a woman or she is the lessor of two evils which is not a great way to sell a candidate. After 8 years with a dem in the WH DNC should not have been so cavalier about their top choices. Hilary was an easy target for Trump to deride.
Plus many that supported Bernie never cae on aboard the Hillary train.
There were plenty of bad signs for Hilary's candidancy but evryone dismissed them because the polls said HC was ahead.

Sure she won the pop vote but it's not just about that.

[Killakobe81]

Ok down with politics ... will love to see if and when supermax is offered.
Again so tough to turn that down.

[apalisoc_9]

The Supermax will not be offered as Kawhi and Spurs have agreed to a trade.

[Mugen]

Hey Spurfan, what if I told you Derrick White and Kyle Anderson were "not expendable" in a trade for Anthony Davis? :lmao

[iGetbuckets]

The Supermax will not be offered as Kawhi and Spurs have agreed to a trade.

To who?

[spurraider21]

Some good points ...until he brings up Paul George.
yeah... why bring up the guy who said he wants to be traded and made it be known he wants to be a laker

[ducks]

The Supermax will not be offered as Kawhi and Spurs have agreed to a trade.

just like your family agreed to let you fuck your aunt

[Mikeanaro]

Guys enough with Hilda, this is Pop/Kiwi thread.
BTW, I dont get whats so hot about a socialist geriatric fuck with 3 million dollar in properties talking good stuff about Venezuela, thats where you want to go?