Flynn in major trouble for speaking to Russia about sanctions

[TSA]

:lol you've been trying to have it both ways ever since you posted your LARP hedge.

Do you think this is what your /pol post was talking about?

Yes or no.
I must have missed your yes or no answer.

[Pavlov]

http://www.nordicfx.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/stone_001_nordicfxnet_diffuse_reduced.jpgSo brave....

[TSA]

You don't answer and then expect an answer. Who really has the bigger wall?

[Pavlov]

You don't answer and then expect an answer. Who really has the bigger wall?You missed my answer. Doesn't mean I didn't answer.

Watching you waffle so much over this is completely entertaining. You really, really want it to be the REMEMBER REMEMBER NOON BOOM, don't you?

I'm going to make fun of this for awhile. You may call scoreboard if this circa story turns out to be the REMEMBER REMEMBER NOON BOOM. Until then, I will accept your stonewalling for what it is.

[TSA]

You missed my answer. Doesn't mean I didn't answer.

Watching you waffle so much over this is completely entertaining. You really, really want it to be the REMEMBER REMEMBER NOON BOOM, don't you?

I'm going to make fun of this for awhile. You may call scoreboard if this circa story turns out to be the REMEMBER REMEMBER NOON BOOM. Until then, I will accept your stonewalling for what it is.

I won't be calling scoreboard on a 4chan post, but you'll most definitely be putting a sticky note on the page of your July 27th ST notebook page.

[Pavlov]

I won't be calling scoreboard on a 4chan post, but you'll most definitely be putting a sticky note on the page of your July 27th ST notebook page.No need for any notebook. I will REMEMBER REMEMBER all on my own.

[djohn2oo8]

890720915146903553

[Pavlov]

890720915146903553Holy shit. You know the administration done fucked up when the NYPost is making front page fun of them.

[spurraider21]

shoulda shown Spicer behind the bushes instead of kushner

[Pavlov]

shoulda shown Spicer behind the bushes instead of kushnerSpicer got out at precisely the right time. Should really go on Dancing with the Stars.

[boutons_deux]

The Top Intel Democrat Just Accused Trey Gowdy Of Protecting Kushner During Private House Hearing


“Mr. Gowdy took the role as a second attorney for Mr. Kushner,” a frustrated Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA) told reporters, according toBloomberg News. (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-26/democrat-says-gop-s-gowdy-acted-in-private-like-a-kushner-lawyer)

“When Kushner and lawmakers emerged from the meeting,” reported Bloomberg, “Democrats said Gowdy ran interference on behalf of Kushner during the questioning.”

“Himes said Gowdy repeatedly complained that Democrats’ questions were repetitive and sought to block follow-up inquiries.”


What a difference from 2016, when Gowdy led a Republican-driven, highly political probe (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-endless-trial-of-trey-gowdys-benghazi-committee-20160114)into Hillary Clinton’s handling of the tragic Benghazi terrorist attacks.

At one hearing, Gowdy pounded Clinton for 11 hours worth of questions, many of them repetitive, about her response to the 2012 attack on the U.S. Embassy in Libya.

In that case, Clinton spoke in public and answered all questions. That didn’t stop Gowdy from repeatedly calling for Secretary Clinton to be prosecuted during the 2016 campaign.

With Kushner, by contrast, and Republicans calling the shots, the hearing behind closed doors was done in the most secretive way possible.

Frustrated Democrats were left with lots of questions and a number of leads to follow.

http://washingtonjournal.com/2017/07/26/top-intel-democrat-just-accused-trey-gowdy-protecting-kushner-private-house-hearing/

[Pavlov]

Your move, Dear Leader....


Russia Seizes 2 U.S. Properties and Orders Embassy to Cut Staff
(https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/28/world/europe/us-russia-sanctions.html
)

[Thread]

Your move, Dear Leader....


Russia Seizes 2 U.S. Properties and Orders Embassy to Cut Staff
(https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/28/world/europe/us-russia-sanctions.html<br />)

If you can't take it, do not dish it.

[Pavlov]

If you can't take it, do not dish it.We'll see if Trump can take it.

[Thread]

We'll see if Trump can take it.

Absolutely.

[Th'Pusher]

We'll see if Trump can take it.

If his short history as leader is any guide, he'll take it right in the ass.

[clambake]

oh he'll take it and swallow it.

[Chris]

890953844313567232

[RandomGuy]

890701106602487808
Your move, Putin'spet.


But then, predicting what Trump will, or won't do is sort of a mugs game. He never fails to do the stupidest shit possible, just when you think he can't be dumber.

The thing about a good theory though, it that it both explains facts, and you can make testable predictions.

Fact 1:
Russia attempted to hack our electoral process through a multi-pronged attack.

Fact 2:
Donald "look how big my inauguration crowd was" Trump has done nothing but deny this even happened. He has shown no willingness whatsoever to hold Russia to account for anything.

Fact 3:
Donald Trump has a pattern of criticizing anyone, and everyone at the drop of a hat. Allies, enemies, courts, free press, nothing has escaped his remarks and twitter feed, except for ONE/(two) thing(s), and that is Russia/Putin

Fact 4:
Russian efforts appeared designed to support Trump

Fact 5:
Trump directly called on Russia publicly to support his efforts to get elected.

Theory:
Donald Trump has been compromised in some way. Either he directly owes them money, or they have evidence of some kind of him breaking the law or doing something he does not want others to know about.

This theory explains those facts, and is fully consistent with observed reality.

Prediction:
Donald Trump will take no action personally, nor will he criticize Russia or Putin in any way in regards to the Russian attack on our elections. He may allow his underlings to do some minor, inconsequential stuff, and if forced to do anything by Congress will drag his feet, if not outright attempt to veto any sanctions.


The way to falsify the theory:
1) Trump criticizes Putin/Russia (good)
2) Trump orders/takes action that materially harms Russian interests (definitive)

Bullshit conspiracy theories fail very often because either: they cannot be falsified, or they directly conflict with observed reality. This theory can be falsified, and does not conflict with what we know as fact.

Donald Trump is unpredictable except for Russia.

He may be stupid enough to fire Mueller if Mueller starts asking questions that will expose how he has been compromised.

If he does so, he will be impeached. The Republican party will have almost no choice at that point. Congress will find their spine, because they want to be re-elected, and Trump will have gone too far for all but the most jaded hacks.

Here comes the test.

Prediction:
Trump will veto, or actively attempt to undermine the sanctions in any way he can.

Russians have already threatened to retaliate.

[boutons_deux]

Here comes the test.

Prediction:
Trump will veto, or actively attempt to undermine the sanctions in any way he can.

Russians have already threatened to retaliate.

try to keep up, TB :lol highly recommends RSS

Pootin kicked out 100s of US diplomats, seized US facilities

[RandomGuy]

shoulda shown Spicer behind the bushes instead of kushner

http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/content/creativecontent/images/cms/2217790_1280x720.jpg

or better yet, get the totebag. Yes, this is a something you can actually buy (Picture of spicer with a bush)
https://www.redbubble.com/people/funnytshirtemp/works/26488053-sean-spicer-hiding-in-the-bushes-spicy-white-house-press-secretary?p=drawstring-bag&rbs=af012caf-94e3-43fb-a043-4b82108ca5ff&rel=carousel

[Pavlov]

890953844313567232Disappointed with Gowdy's haircut. It's usually much more flamboyant.

[boutons_deux]

A Former Putin Ally Just Testified That Putin Orchestrated Trump Jr. Secret Meeting

testimony of William “Bill” Browder, (http://www.newsweek.com/bill-browder-senate-judiciary-trump-russia-meeting-643002) who has made it his mission in life to expose the gross corruption in Russia that leads directly to President Vladimir Putin.

testified about the real purpose of the June 2016 meeting attended by Donald Jr., Manafort, and Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner at Trump Tower in New York City.

“Is there any doubt in your mind, knowing as well as any American how Vladimir Putin operates, that Natalia Veselnitskaya was there acting on behalf of Vladimir Putin and the Russian government?”
“There is no doubt,” answered Browder, adding that he is also sure that Rinat Akhmetshin, a Russian-American lobbyist, was also there on behalf of the Russian government.

In the emails sent to Donald Jr., which he released to the public, it is made explicitly clear that the Russians were acting on behalf of Putin’s regime, making the attendance of the three Americans an immediate violation of the law since they did not report it or clear it in advance.

In the emails sent to Donald Jr., which he released to the public, it is made explicitly clear that the Russians were acting on behalf of Putin’s regime, making the attendance of the three Americans an immediate violation of the law since they did not report it or clear it in advance.


“These two individuals,” asked Blumenthal, “Veselnitskaya and Akhmetshin, were acting on behalf of Vladimir Putin in initiating a potential agreement, legally probably a conspiracy, involving the Russian government and Donald Trump Jr., and the other participants in that meeting, correct?”

“That was the intention of the Russians,” responded Browder, adding that the attendance of the two Russians meant that “the Russian government and Vladimir Putin were in effect coming to this meeting.”

The meeting was part of a larger, well-funded, very intense campaign by the Russian government to get Congress to repeal the Sergei Magnitsky Rule of Law Accountability Act – known simply as the Magnitsky Act – passed in 2012 and signed into law by President Obama.

The act allows the American government to order funds in U.S. banks that belong to Russians, including Putin, to be frozen if it is proven they have been involved in serious human rights abuses.


There is no money in Russia for the sick, HIV positive, or mentally disabled, so forcing them to stay there was a death sentence, testified Browder. “In practical terms, this meant that Vladimir Putin sentenced his own, most vulnerable and sick Russian orphans to death in order to protect corrupt officials in his regime.”

“The Magnitsky Act created real consequences outside of Russia,” added Browder, “and this created a real problem for Putin and his system of kleptocracy.”


The main purpose of that meeting, Browder believes, was to see how willing the Trump campaign would be to cooperate with the Russian effort to repeal The Magnitsky Act. The Russians were there on the direct orders of the general prosecutor of Russia, acting on behalf of Putin.

If Trump was cooperative, Putin was ready to use all means, legal and illegal, to sway the election in his direction – which is exactly what happened.

Browder at first thought Putin would be an ally against rich Russians who were stealing from everyone, the people, and government, but then he discovered a deal had been made which gave Putin half of all the ill gotten gains – money that went to him personally.

Browder believes most of his $230 million went to Putin, whom he estimates has personal assets and cash holdings of over $200 billion.

http://washingtonjournal.com/2017/07/27/former-putin-ally-just-testified-putin-orchestrated-trump-jr-secret-meeting/ (http://washingtonjournal.com/2017/07/27/former-putin-ally-just-testified-putin-orchestrated-trump-jr-secret-meeting/)

[Pavlov]

:lol TSA

[boutons_deux]

A New USA Today Report On Russia Investigation Just Spelled Disaster For Trump



Under his mandate, Mueller can follow the story, and the money trail, where ever the investigation takes him, and increasingly that appears to be into the complex business dealings, especially real estate sales.



“Experts say,” reports USA Today, “Mueller’s move to follow the money has the potential to expose Trump, his family and his associates to legal troubles that go beyond election-year collusion with the Russians.”

“It opens the door,” adds the report, “to revelations of any business-related malfeasance discovered during Meuller’s look at Trump’s business network.”

the actual agreement written by Rod Rosenstein establishing the special counsel investigation is quite broad. It says that he s authorized to looking into any lines with Russia as well as “any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation.”

Jack Blum, a former Senate staff lawyer not a Washington attorney specializing in white collar crime, told USA Today that Muller has to look at all kinds of financial transactions to see if there is a flow of money, and figure out where it is going and why.

Blum said, “real estate records and corporation records are likely to be of special interest to investigators, and likely would be more revealing than tax returns.”

“You can’t really tackle the broader problems of corruption or crime without also being able to follow the money and get at the financing of those activities,” Mark Hays, an investigator for the nonprofit watchdog group Global Witness,

Real estate deals are ripe for corruption because a lot of the sales, especially to wealthy foreigners, can be made through corporate shells that make it virtually impossible to know who is really buying the property.


USA Today did an investigation last month (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/06/13/trump-property-buyers-make-clear-shift-secretive-llcs/102399558/)which showed 70 percent of Trump Organization real estate sales since Donald Trump became president were done through shell companies, compared to only four percent before he took office.



“The clear shift to those kinds of purchases,” reports USA Today, “which helps obscure the identities of the buyers, raise questions about the source of profits that ultimately flow to the President because he has not fully divested from his companies.”



“The law of conspiracy reaches pretty far and every person in the conspiracy doesn’t necessarily have to be clued in to all the details,” explained Tobon, speaking about money laundering in general. “So legally you’re exposed in these transactions if you don’t take that extra step of asking who is the person behind (the shell company).”



http://washingtonjournal.com/2017/07/28/new-usa-today-report-russia-investigation-just-spelled-disaster-trump/

[Blake]

890953844313567232


Lollll fox and friends twitter

[djohn2oo8]

891107068211593218
:lmao No choice
:lmao backed into a fucking corner
:lmao Becomes law even without his signature
:lmao Pootin gon be Pissed

[djohn2oo8]

891107760854708224
:lmao nowhere to run

[Reck]

891107068211593218
:lmao No choice
:lmao backed into a fucking corner
:lmao Becomes law even without his signature
:lmao Pootin gon be Pissed

So about that pee tape..:lol

[djohn2oo8]

So about that pee tape..:lol

https://i.imgur.com/VYGKHzl.gif

[monosylab1k]

891107068211593218
:lmao No choice
:lmao backed into a fucking corner
:lmao Becomes law even without his signature
:lmao Pootin gon be Pissed

:lmao cucked by his own party
:lmao getting dumpstered all week
:lmao most inept president of all time

[djohn2oo8]

:lmao cucked by his own party
:lmao getting dumpstered all week
:lmao most inept president of all time

891067442142818305
:lol

[djohn2oo8]

891062467975151616

[unleashbaynes]

Trump is a fucking dumbass and a clown. What is it gonna take to get him out of office? America should be ashamed.

[djohn2oo8]

Uh oh. Them Russia nigras already publicly calling Trump weak.

[Reck]

891062467975151616

This is some weak ass retaliation.

[djohn2oo8]

This is some weak ass retaliation.

Thats just the start. They want their compounds back and likely won't get them. Shit will get real for Donnie. Quickly.

[djohn2oo8]

Apparently Priebus never signed a non disclosure agreement

[Thread]

Trump is a fucking dumbass and a clown. What is it gonna take to get him out of office? America should be ashamed.

You'll need to do away with the Electoral College. But, you already knew that from '00. tee, hee.

[Thread]

This is some weak ass retaliation.

Cept to that staff & their families who were in those plum jobs.

C'mon, home, sweethearts.

[spurraider21]

Lol

[djohn2oo8]

https://media.giphy.com/media/ZLpVNgQHN2d4Q/giphy.gif

[Chris]

https://scontent-dft4-3.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20375739_307758659686465_8313211700589283077_n.jpg ?oh=75f79faa577c4b04aa05bed0bcac84f1&oe=59FD1BEA

[Pavlov]

https://scontent-dft4-3.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20375739_307758659686465_8313211700589283077_n.jpg ?oh=75f79faa577c4b04aa05bed0bcac84f1&oe=59FD1BEA*ding* *ding* *ding* *ding* *ding* *ding* *ding* *ding*

[Chris]

Your surrender is accepted. You like to be submissive.

Mueller was returning Russian uranium that was seized in a 2006 raid in Georgia from a Russian man who was trying to sell it. There was nothing at all illegal about it.

:lmao

891431096688271365

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09STATE85588_a.html#efmBbpBlP

[Reck]

Chris reaching per par. :lol

[DarrinS]

Chris reaching per par. :lol

Hi

[Reck]

Hi

All you had to say was you missed me from your flyover trip. :lol

[Pavlov]

:lmao

891431096688271365

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09STATE85588_a.html#efmBbpBlPThat's exactly what I was talking about, Chris. Thanks for the attempted grudge post tho.

[TeyshaBlue]

try to keep up, TB :lol highly recommends RSS

Pootin kicked out 100s of US diplomats, seized US facilities

Rent free.

[boutons_deux]

https://images.dailykos.com/images/428628/story_image/1348ckCOMIC-donald-and-john---pardonizer.png?1501021268

[boutons_deux]

Another Putin stooge for Trash going after Mueller, after Assange on behalf of Pootin/Trash went after Hillary by dribbling stolen emails for weeks

WikiLeaks: Officially in the bag for Trump (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/7/30/1685501/-WikiLeaks-Officially-in-the-bag-for-Trump)

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/7/30/1685501/-WikiLeaks-Officially-in-the-bag-for-Trump?detail=emaildkre

[baseline bum]

https://images.dailykos.com/images/428628/story_image/1348ckCOMIC-donald-and-john---pardonizer.png?1501021268

Bill Waterson is rolling in his grave at that garbage.

[Reck]

Another Putin stooge for Trash going after Mueller, after Assange on behalf of Pootin/Trash went after Hillary by dribbling stolen emails for weeks

WikiLeaks: Officially in the bag for Trump (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/7/30/1685501/-WikiLeaks-Officially-in-the-bag-for-Trump)

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/7/30/1685501/-WikiLeaks-Officially-in-the-bag-for-Trump?detail=emaildkre




Do you really think Putin is giving a fuck about Trump right now?

Unless this is a facade, Putin is pretty pissed at dear leader for not lifting those sanctions.

[TSA]

News-For-Hire Scandal Deepens: ‘Fusion GPS’ Sleazy Venezuela Links Shed New Light on Trump Dossier

News of the News: an oppo-research-for-hire outfit of former reporters tries to seed stories in the American press for global clients
By Lee Smith

The Fusion GPS news-for-hire scandal has not only led to the public identification of the source of the “Trump Dossier”—a for-profit company that provides opposition research to whoever could write big checks, which is staffed by four former Wall Street Journal reporters led by Glenn Simpson. The scandal has also lifted the lid off a sewer of corporate information warfare and opposition research that the flailing institutions of the mainstream press now regularly re-package as news, without ever saying where it came from—or who paid for it. While the idea that the products of paid opposition research are being main-lined by name news outlets makes an ongoing mockery of claims to objective reporting, that part of the story is hardly new—it goes back at least to the partisan warfare of the 1990s. So why is Fusion GPS such a big deal?

The Trump Dossier, and the firestorm it ignited, is only one piece of the Fusion GPS story. What’s new about Fusion GPS and its fellow DC oppo shops—few of which register as foreign lobbyists—is that they take money from entities linked to foreign governments that are eager to re-frame or invent news stories to punish their enemies at home and torque American foreign policy by controlling information. When you connect the dots between Fusion GPS’s foreign clients and U.S. media outlets, a much more disturbing picture emerges of the firm’s activities, and what they reveal about the weakened state of the American press, and American democracy.

Faith in the outfit’s journalistic expertise and experience is one of the chords that Fusion GPS strikes in its relations with journalists, whether they’re trying to block a story or shop one. “If they have a story they think you’d be interested in,” says one Washington, D.C. journalist familiar with Fusion GPS’s operations, “they call you down to their office on Dupont Circle and show you a dossier. There’s no confidentiality agreement, but it’s understood that if they show you something and you talk about it, you’re cut off, or worse.”

The fact that Fusion GPS has the whip-hand in its relationship with journalists hardly compels the company to be honest—revealing sources is for suckers, especially when your “sources” are paying the bills. At the same time as Fusion GPS was being paid directly by Russian clients in Washington, it was also being paid by a Venezuelan company called Derwick Associates that reportedly skimmed billions of dollars from rigged contracts with Hugo Chavez’s regime—and which did large amounts of business with Russian state companies like Gazprom and Gazprombank that are sanctioned by Washington for issues related to Russia’s involvement in Ukraine. That’s how Fusion GPS kept the lights on.

If taking money from repressive kleptocracies is an ugly business, an even uglier story emerges when you start connecting the dots. Add Fusion GPS’s contracts with Russian and Russian-linked entities together with the company’s role in compiling and distributing a defamatory dossier sourced to the Kremlin, and the idea that the Trump Dossier was a Kremlin information operation becomes quite plausible—with much of the U.S. media serving as the delivery mechanism for a poison dart aimed at the legitimacy of the American democratic system.

But wait: How could the Kremlin be targeting Donald Trump, at the same time as it was trying to elect Trump by hacking John Podesta’s emails and spreading them on Wikileaks, and running anti-Hillary Clinton conspiracy stories on Russia Today? The answer is that the purpose of Russia’s interventions in the 2016 election wasn’t to elect either Clinton or Trump, for a traditional quid pro quo. Information operations don’t work that way; they’re hammers, not scalpels. You can sow distrust and confusion, and pit groups against each other—but you can’t move swing voters in Wisconsin from one column to another with any kind of reliability, and efforts to achieve such a straightforward aim are more likely than not to backfire.

No, the point of the Kremlin’s assault on the American election of 2016 was to defame both candidates, and sow chaos, and thereby to discredit the American system of government, which rests on the consent of the governed. By any measure you care to use, the Kremlin has succeeded, and Fusion GPS was one of its most useful instruments.

***

In order to understand Fusion GPS’s role in Venezuela, and how that work connects to the Trump Dossier and the firm’s other activities in Washington, I recently interviewed the Venezuelan investigative reporter Alek Boyd, who has compiled a dossier of his own about the firm’s activities in his native country. In 2006, Boyd met Thomas Catan, who would later join former Wall Street Journal colleagues Glenn Simpson and Peter Fritsch at Fusion GPS, when Catan was covering the Venezuelan presidential elections for the Times of London.

“Catan’s father was from Mexico, so we spoke to each other in Spanish,” Boyd told me earlier this week in a phone call. “He came to my house for dinner with my family. Fast forward a few years: I’m looking into this group of young Venezuelan businessmen who won $1 billion worth of contracts for power plants in Venezuela, without bidding.” That was Derwick Associates, five young Venezuelan businessmen with ties to figures in the Chavez regime.

Later, as Boyd reported, Derwick also entered into a partnership with Gazprom to enter the Venezuelan oil sector, through a strategic venture with Petroleos de Venezuela (PDVSA). “As soon as Hugo Chavez took over the state oil conglomerate,” says Boyd, “he fired some 20,000 people so he had to replace their knowledge and experience, and he looked to international partnerships, which would have a large percentage, but not a majority stake. Obviously Russia has been staunch supporter all along of Chavez.”

Gazprom, one of Russia’s own state oil conglomerates, entered the Venezuelan market. In one of their ventures, Gazprom partnered with Derwick Associates in a deal with PDVSA. “What does Derwick bring to the table?” Boyd said to me. “They had no track record related to oil. All they had was misappropriated millions and their network of contacts, which they used to provide an expensive loan to Gazprom and insert themselves into a joint PDVSA-Gazprom oil production deal.”

For all Derwick Associates’ ambition, Boyd told me, what was really exceptional about them “was that when journalists started asking questions, they threatened legal action. Most corrupt Venezuelan businessmen get their money and buy a condo in Miami and fly off into the sunset quietly. But these guys seemed to like the attention. They waged an international censorship campaign and it was the clumsiness of the campaign that got my attention.” (Derwick did not respond to requests for comment.)

So Derwick called in Fusion GPS. In 2014 Boyd received a tip that one of Catan’s colleagues at Fusion GPS had flown to Caracas to meet with Derwick principals. “Catan denied it,” Boyd told me. “But I had a copy of a hotel reservation from July 2014 with Peter Fritsch’s name on it.”

Fritsch, said one journalist who knows him, is the man who keeps the trains running on time at Fusion GPS. “Simpson has the contacts,” says the journalist, who asked not to be named, “but Fritsch is the guy who keeps order there.”

The purpose of Fritsch’s visit to Venezuela was to meet with reporters from the Wall Street Journal who were working on an investigative article about Derwick Associates. “Fritsch came with a lawyer, Adam Kaufman, who’d worked with Robert Morgenthau at the New York District Attorney’s office, to silence any further investigations from the Wall Street Journal,” says Boyd. “It was those two, a group of Derwick executives and Journal reporter José de Córdoba. They [said] would provide documents to show the contracts were legitimate, which they never did.”

Another source familiar with the circumstances of the meeting explains that “it was mostly a visual presentation. There were lots of documents but not enough time in a month to go through them.”

Boyd says that the purpose of the trip was to bully the Journal into silence. At the Journal de Córdoba had worked under Fritsch. The Journal published a report from de Córdoba after his visit, but Fritsch’s meeting apparently derailed a longer investigative piece. De Córdoba stated that the “blatant intimidation tactics” he faced made him feel “uncomfortable.”

When asked for comment, Wall Street Journal spokesman Steve Severinghaus sent this statement to Tablet: “The Wall Street Journal doesn’t withhold publication of any articles due to pressure from anyone. In fact, our Aug. 8, 2014, article was at the forefront in reporting federal and New York City preliminary investigations into the Venezuelan company Derwick Associates. The Journal‘s editorial decisions are independent and in keeping with our long tradition of tough and fair reporting.”

***

It looks like De Córdoba was right to feel uncomfortable. On Wednesday, the Senate Judiciary committee heard written testimony from human rights activist Thor Halvorssen regarding Fusion GPS that backs up the account that Boyd gave me. “In 2012 I began researching a Venezuelan corruption scandal that also involved U.S. banks, companies, and even U.S. courts,” the Venezuelan-born Halvorssen writes in his testimony. “This story should have received extensive exposure on the front pages of America’s national newspapers. Fusion GPS, however, was hired to spike these stories. Even though it was clearly acting as a public relations counsel on behalf of a foreign principal, Fusion GPS never registered under FARA and was able to engage in nefarious activities without public scrutiny.”

Echoing the testimony he gave to Congress, Halvorssen told me on the phone this week that as media fixers Fusion GPS’s method is to sow doubt in the minds of reporters who are investigating stories about their clients. “They come in and say, ‘I’m telling you the truth, you’ve known me from the Wall Street Journal for twenty years, I’m respectable. They trade on their past reputation and that’s what they’re selling to their overseas clients, the ones with criminal problems.”

According to Halvorssen, Fusion GPS also resorted to much more aggressive tactics in defending Derwick Associates. As Halvorssen writes in his testimony: “Mr. Fritsch sent Mr. De Cordoba a dossier containing false and derogatory information about me and about the other whistleblowers who have drawn attention to Derwick. … Fusion GPS was responsible for the defamation campaign.”

“They placed false accusations that I was a heroin addict, a pedophile, and guilty of embezzlement,” Halvorssen told me. “They could have done something about me that was plausible, like attacked the Human Rights Foundation, the Oslo Freedom Forum”—organizations Halvorssen runs—or some run-of-the-mill shortcoming. But their point is to make the accusations so appalling that there can be no defense. The point is to make you radioactive. And what’s interesting is that it was the same pattern of accusations against multiple people.”

Boyd claims that he was also targeted in a social media campaign that described him as a drug trafficker, extortionist, car thief, and pedophile. Here is a sample screen grab taken from websites with articles targeting Boyd:

http://www.tabletmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/loactual.png

His home in London, where he now lives, was broken into and his computer was stolen, according to London police reports, although the culprits have not been identified. Photographs of his young daughters, taken with a telephoto lens, were put in his raincoat. He also received an anonymous note threatening his daughters with sexual abuse.

“I think Fusion GPS played a key role in the campaign against me,” Boyd believes. “Derwick doesn’t understand how media works. Fusion GPS was there to lead them and explain it to them. Because of their background, they have an impressive array of contacts they can rely on to discredit someone—‘You don’t want to listen to that guy, he has a criminal past, he’s a pedophile.’ ”

When asked to comment on Boyd and Halvorssen’s charges, Fusion GPS sent a statement to Tablet. “Fusion GPS did not launch a defamation campaign against Thor Halvorssen or Alek Boyd. Halvorssen’s statement is filled with inaccuracies and falsehoods. The only verified defamation campaign is the one being pursued against Fusion GPS. The president and his allies have tried to smear anyone who has tried to investigate Trump’s Russia ties.”

However, both Boyd and Halvorssen’s investigations of Derwick Associates predated Donald Trump’s presence on the American political scene by several years. It is difficult to understand how the “dirty tricks” and defamation campaigns waged against them have anything to do with Trump. The same goes for Bill Browder—one of the main forces behind the Magnitzky Act, passed in 2012, which sanctions Russian figures involved in the detention and 2009 death of Browder’s late lawyer Sergei Magnitzky. Browder says he was similarly targeted by Fusion GPS.

In his testimony yesterday before the Senate Judiciary Committe, Browder argued that Fusion GPS had waged a smear campaign against him and Magnitsky. Glenn Simpson, said Browder, “contacted a number of major newspapers and other publications to spread false information that Sergei Magnitsky was not murdered, was not a whistle-blower, and was instead a criminal. They also spread false information that my presentations to lawmakers around the world were untrue.”

As Halvorssen testified before Congress, Fusion sometimes outsources its smear campaigns. Halvorssen told me that “Kenneth Silverstein was attacking me on behalf of Fusion GPS in fringe websites as well as across social media.” (Here’s an article Silverstein published in 2015 about Halvorssen.) According to Halvorssen, Silverstein made the same accusations that Derwick Associates had, based on the same dossier and false accusations Fusion GPS was behind. “They used Silverstein to launder and place the information. He was at one point in the past a respected journalist with a serious career, so it gave the impression of being somewhat legitimate coming from him.”

When I contacted Silverstein for comment, he contested Halvorssen’s account. “It’s a complete fabrication,” Silverstein said. “No one at Fusion GPS ever gave me a file about Thor Halvorssen or any information about him. No one at Fusion ever asked me to write about him or anything having to do with Venezuela.”

Silverstein, believes Halvorssen, likely played a role similar to Christopher Steele’s as author of the Russia dossier on Trump. “Chances are that Steele had only partial responsibility. They could be just using his reputation as a former British intelligence officer to legitimize a smear campaign. There’s nothing Fusion GPS isn’t willing to do for money. They work for agents of the Kremlin, after all.”

It’s one of the peculiar paradoxes of the media today that the firm that sparked the anti-Trump resistance, and fueled the patriotism of those newly awakened to the dangers of Russian interference in American political institutions is working with companies intimately linked with Moscow. Fusion GPS is working to undo the U.S. sanctions on Russia implemented by the Magnitzky Act, and has been networked into Gazprom’s investment in Venezuela’s energy sector alongside Derwick Associates. And yet the U.S. media is focused on the Great Kremlin Conspiracy, the fruit of what appears to be only one in a series of smear campaigns waged by Fusion GPS. Sure, the reasons are partly ideological—Trump is not the press’ preferred candidate. And financial—the daily campaign against Trump is driving traffic that print and broadcast haven’t seen in a long time.

The press has its hands tied. “If they report that the Russia dossier is probably nonsense,” said Halvorssen, “and Fusion GPS is running information operations across the media, then that calls into question all the other stories that Fusion GPS has fed journalists in the past. Why are so few journalists willing to look into Fusion GPS?”

In order to report honestly on the Trump scandals, a weakened press would have to report honestly on Fusion GPS—which would mean lifting the lid on the incompetence and malfeasance of their own institutions and colleagues, which would reveal a scandal as threatening to democracy as anything Trump has said or done. “Imagine if they subpoena Fusion GPS’s emails,” said a veteran Washington reporter, “there are going to be lots of journalists in there who’ve taken stories from them. Big names, senior figures in the field. It will look like an apocalypse.”

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/241812/news-for-hire-scandal-deepens-gps-fusion-sleazy-venezuela-links-shed-new-light-on-trump-dossier

[Thread]

Do you really think Putin is giving a fuck about Trump right now?

Unless this is a facade, Putin is pretty pissed at dear leader for not lifting those sanctions.

You know that's not the truth, Recky. Zero put Trump in a box immediately post November 8th purposely to deny him access to success with Pootin. Now, Congress has enforced that mandate by passing legislation that not only bars Trump from lifting sanctions, but, humiliates the Presidency of the United States.

Pootin ain't mad at Trump. He's mad, like us at the system. Trump/Pootin could have, would have done great things. & everybody knew it, and headed them off at the pass. "If I can't bed down with Pootin---you ain't beddin' down with him. No fuckin' way."

A downright dirty shame.

[RandomGuy]

News-For-Hire Scandal Deepens: ‘Fusion GPS’ Sleazy Venezuela Links Shed New Light on Trump Dossier

News of the News: an oppo-research-for-hire outfit of former reporters tries to seed stories in the American press for global clients
By Lee Smith

The Fusion GPS news-for-hire scandal has not only led to the public identification of the source of the “Trump Dossier”—a for-profit company that provides opposition research to whoever could write big checks, which is staffed by four former Wall Street Journal reporters led by Glenn Simpson. The scandal has also lifted the lid off a sewer of corporate information warfare and opposition research that the flailing institutions of the mainstream press now regularly re-package as news, without ever saying where it came from—or who paid for it. While the idea that the products of paid opposition research are being main-lined by name news outlets makes an ongoing mockery of claims to objective reporting, that part of the story is hardly new—it goes back at least to the partisan warfare of the 1990s. So why is Fusion GPS such a big deal?

The Trump Dossier, and the firestorm it ignited, is only one piece of the Fusion GPS story. What’s new about Fusion GPS and its fellow DC oppo shops—few of which register as foreign lobbyists—is that they take money from entities linked to foreign governments that are eager to re-frame or invent news stories to punish their enemies at home and torque American foreign policy by controlling information. When you connect the dots between Fusion GPS’s foreign clients and U.S. media outlets, a much more disturbing picture emerges of the firm’s activities, and what they reveal about the weakened state of the American press, and American democracy.

Faith in the outfit’s journalistic expertise and experience is one of the chords that Fusion GPS strikes in its relations with journalists, whether they’re trying to block a story or shop one. “If they have a story they think you’d be interested in,” says one Washington, D.C. journalist familiar with Fusion GPS’s operations, “they call you down to their office on Dupont Circle and show you a dossier. There’s no confidentiality agreement, but it’s understood that if they show you something and you talk about it, you’re cut off, or worse.”

The fact that Fusion GPS has the whip-hand in its relationship with journalists hardly compels the company to be honest—revealing sources is for suckers, especially when your “sources” are paying the bills. At the same time as Fusion GPS was being paid directly by Russian clients in Washington, it was also being paid by a Venezuelan company called Derwick Associates that reportedly skimmed billions of dollars from rigged contracts with Hugo Chavez’s regime—and which did large amounts of business with Russian state companies like Gazprom and Gazprombank that are sanctioned by Washington for issues related to Russia’s involvement in Ukraine. That’s how Fusion GPS kept the lights on.

If taking money from repressive kleptocracies is an ugly business, an even uglier story emerges when you start connecting the dots. Add Fusion GPS’s contracts with Russian and Russian-linked entities together with the company’s role in compiling and distributing a defamatory dossier sourced to the Kremlin, and the idea that the Trump Dossier was a Kremlin information operation becomes quite plausible—with much of the U.S. media serving as the delivery mechanism for a poison dart aimed at the legitimacy of the American democratic system.

But wait: How could the Kremlin be targeting Donald Trump, at the same time as it was trying to elect Trump by hacking John Podesta’s emails and spreading them on Wikileaks, and running anti-Hillary Clinton conspiracy stories on Russia Today? The answer is that the purpose of Russia’s interventions in the 2016 election wasn’t to elect either Clinton or Trump, for a traditional quid pro quo. Information operations don’t work that way; they’re hammers, not scalpels. You can sow distrust and confusion, and pit groups against each other—but you can’t move swing voters in Wisconsin from one column to another with any kind of reliability, and efforts to achieve such a straightforward aim are more likely than not to backfire.

No, the point of the Kremlin’s assault on the American election of 2016 was to defame both candidates, and sow chaos, and thereby to discredit the American system of government, which rests on the consent of the governed. By any measure you care to use, the Kremlin has succeeded, and Fusion GPS was one of its most useful instruments.

***

In order to understand Fusion GPS’s role in Venezuela, and how that work connects to the Trump Dossier and the firm’s other activities in Washington, I recently interviewed the Venezuelan investigative reporter Alek Boyd, who has compiled a dossier of his own about the firm’s activities in his native country. In 2006, Boyd met Thomas Catan, who would later join former Wall Street Journal colleagues Glenn Simpson and Peter Fritsch at Fusion GPS, when Catan was covering the Venezuelan presidential elections for the Times of London.

“Catan’s father was from Mexico, so we spoke to each other in Spanish,” Boyd told me earlier this week in a phone call. “He came to my house for dinner with my family. Fast forward a few years: I’m looking into this group of young Venezuelan businessmen who won $1 billion worth of contracts for power plants in Venezuela, without bidding.” That was Derwick Associates, five young Venezuelan businessmen with ties to figures in the Chavez regime.

Later, as Boyd reported, Derwick also entered into a partnership with Gazprom to enter the Venezuelan oil sector, through a strategic venture with Petroleos de Venezuela (PDVSA). “As soon as Hugo Chavez took over the state oil conglomerate,” says Boyd, “he fired some 20,000 people so he had to replace their knowledge and experience, and he looked to international partnerships, which would have a large percentage, but not a majority stake. Obviously Russia has been staunch supporter all along of Chavez.”

Gazprom, one of Russia’s own state oil conglomerates, entered the Venezuelan market. In one of their ventures, Gazprom partnered with Derwick Associates in a deal with PDVSA. “What does Derwick bring to the table?” Boyd said to me. “They had no track record related to oil. All they had was misappropriated millions and their network of contacts, which they used to provide an expensive loan to Gazprom and insert themselves into a joint PDVSA-Gazprom oil production deal.”

For all Derwick Associates’ ambition, Boyd told me, what was really exceptional about them “was that when journalists started asking questions, they threatened legal action. Most corrupt Venezuelan businessmen get their money and buy a condo in Miami and fly off into the sunset quietly. But these guys seemed to like the attention. They waged an international censorship campaign and it was the clumsiness of the campaign that got my attention.” (Derwick did not respond to requests for comment.)

So Derwick called in Fusion GPS. In 2014 Boyd received a tip that one of Catan’s colleagues at Fusion GPS had flown to Caracas to meet with Derwick principals. “Catan denied it,” Boyd told me. “But I had a copy of a hotel reservation from July 2014 with Peter Fritsch’s name on it.”

Fritsch, said one journalist who knows him, is the man who keeps the trains running on time at Fusion GPS. “Simpson has the contacts,” says the journalist, who asked not to be named, “but Fritsch is the guy who keeps order there.”

The purpose of Fritsch’s visit to Venezuela was to meet with reporters from the Wall Street Journal who were working on an investigative article about Derwick Associates. “Fritsch came with a lawyer, Adam Kaufman, who’d worked with Robert Morgenthau at the New York District Attorney’s office, to silence any further investigations from the Wall Street Journal,” says Boyd. “It was those two, a group of Derwick executives and Journal reporter José de Córdoba. They [said] would provide documents to show the contracts were legitimate, which they never did.”

Another source familiar with the circumstances of the meeting explains that “it was mostly a visual presentation. There were lots of documents but not enough time in a month to go through them.”

Boyd says that the purpose of the trip was to bully the Journal into silence. At the Journal de Córdoba had worked under Fritsch. The Journal published a report from de Córdoba after his visit, but Fritsch’s meeting apparently derailed a longer investigative piece. De Córdoba stated that the “blatant intimidation tactics” he faced made him feel “uncomfortable.”

When asked for comment, Wall Street Journal spokesman Steve Severinghaus sent this statement to Tablet: “The Wall Street Journal doesn’t withhold publication of any articles due to pressure from anyone. In fact, our Aug. 8, 2014, article was at the forefront in reporting federal and New York City preliminary investigations into the Venezuelan company Derwick Associates. The Journal‘s editorial decisions are independent and in keeping with our long tradition of tough and fair reporting.”

***

It looks like De Córdoba was right to feel uncomfortable. On Wednesday, the Senate Judiciary committee heard written testimony from human rights activist Thor Halvorssen regarding Fusion GPS that backs up the account that Boyd gave me. “In 2012 I began researching a Venezuelan corruption scandal that also involved U.S. banks, companies, and even U.S. courts,” the Venezuelan-born Halvorssen writes in his testimony. “This story should have received extensive exposure on the front pages of America’s national newspapers. Fusion GPS, however, was hired to spike these stories. Even though it was clearly acting as a public relations counsel on behalf of a foreign principal, Fusion GPS never registered under FARA and was able to engage in nefarious activities without public scrutiny.”

Echoing the testimony he gave to Congress, Halvorssen told me on the phone this week that as media fixers Fusion GPS’s method is to sow doubt in the minds of reporters who are investigating stories about their clients. “They come in and say, ‘I’m telling you the truth, you’ve known me from the Wall Street Journal for twenty years, I’m respectable. They trade on their past reputation and that’s what they’re selling to their overseas clients, the ones with criminal problems.”

According to Halvorssen, Fusion GPS also resorted to much more aggressive tactics in defending Derwick Associates. As Halvorssen writes in his testimony: “Mr. Fritsch sent Mr. De Cordoba a dossier containing false and derogatory information about me and about the other whistleblowers who have drawn attention to Derwick. … Fusion GPS was responsible for the defamation campaign.”

“They placed false accusations that I was a heroin addict, a pedophile, and guilty of embezzlement,” Halvorssen told me. “They could have done something about me that was plausible, like attacked the Human Rights Foundation, the Oslo Freedom Forum”—organizations Halvorssen runs—or some run-of-the-mill shortcoming. But their point is to make the accusations so appalling that there can be no defense. The point is to make you radioactive. And what’s interesting is that it was the same pattern of accusations against multiple people.”

Boyd claims that he was also targeted in a social media campaign that described him as a drug trafficker, extortionist, car thief, and pedophile. Here is a sample screen grab taken from websites with articles targeting Boyd:

http://www.tabletmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/loactual.png

His home in London, where he now lives, was broken into and his computer was stolen, according to London police reports, although the culprits have not been identified. Photographs of his young daughters, taken with a telephoto lens, were put in his raincoat. He also received an anonymous note threatening his daughters with sexual abuse.

“I think Fusion GPS played a key role in the campaign against me,” Boyd believes. “Derwick doesn’t understand how media works. Fusion GPS was there to lead them and explain it to them. Because of their background, they have an impressive array of contacts they can rely on to discredit someone—‘You don’t want to listen to that guy, he has a criminal past, he’s a pedophile.’ ”

When asked to comment on Boyd and Halvorssen’s charges, Fusion GPS sent a statement to Tablet. “Fusion GPS did not launch a defamation campaign against Thor Halvorssen or Alek Boyd. Halvorssen’s statement is filled with inaccuracies and falsehoods. The only verified defamation campaign is the one being pursued against Fusion GPS. The president and his allies have tried to smear anyone who has tried to investigate Trump’s Russia ties.”

However, both Boyd and Halvorssen’s investigations of Derwick Associates predated Donald Trump’s presence on the American political scene by several years. It is difficult to understand how the “dirty tricks” and defamation campaigns waged against them have anything to do with Trump. The same goes for Bill Browder—one of the main forces behind the Magnitzky Act, passed in 2012, which sanctions Russian figures involved in the detention and 2009 death of Browder’s late lawyer Sergei Magnitzky. Browder says he was similarly targeted by Fusion GPS.

In his testimony yesterday before the Senate Judiciary Committe, Browder argued that Fusion GPS had waged a smear campaign against him and Magnitsky. Glenn Simpson, said Browder, “contacted a number of major newspapers and other publications to spread false information that Sergei Magnitsky was not murdered, was not a whistle-blower, and was instead a criminal. They also spread false information that my presentations to lawmakers around the world were untrue.”

As Halvorssen testified before Congress, Fusion sometimes outsources its smear campaigns. Halvorssen told me that “Kenneth Silverstein was attacking me on behalf of Fusion GPS in fringe websites as well as across social media.” (Here’s an article Silverstein published in 2015 about Halvorssen.) According to Halvorssen, Silverstein made the same accusations that Derwick Associates had, based on the same dossier and false accusations Fusion GPS was behind. “They used Silverstein to launder and place the information. He was at one point in the past a respected journalist with a serious career, so it gave the impression of being somewhat legitimate coming from him.”

When I contacted Silverstein for comment, he contested Halvorssen’s account. “It’s a complete fabrication,” Silverstein said. “No one at Fusion GPS ever gave me a file about Thor Halvorssen or any information about him. No one at Fusion ever asked me to write about him or anything having to do with Venezuela.”

Silverstein, believes Halvorssen, likely played a role similar to Christopher Steele’s as author of the Russia dossier on Trump. “Chances are that Steele had only partial responsibility. They could be just using his reputation as a former British intelligence officer to legitimize a smear campaign. There’s nothing Fusion GPS isn’t willing to do for money. They work for agents of the Kremlin, after all.”

It’s one of the peculiar paradoxes of the media today that the firm that sparked the anti-Trump resistance, and fueled the patriotism of those newly awakened to the dangers of Russian interference in American political institutions is working with companies intimately linked with Moscow. Fusion GPS is working to undo the U.S. sanctions on Russia implemented by the Magnitzky Act, and has been networked into Gazprom’s investment in Venezuela’s energy sector alongside Derwick Associates. And yet the U.S. media is focused on the Great Kremlin Conspiracy, the fruit of what appears to be only one in a series of smear campaigns waged by Fusion GPS. Sure, the reasons are partly ideological—Trump is not the press’ preferred candidate. And financial—the daily campaign against Trump is driving traffic that print and broadcast haven’t seen in a long time.

The press has its hands tied. “If they report that the Russia dossier is probably nonsense,” said Halvorssen, “and Fusion GPS is running information operations across the media, then that calls into question all the other stories that Fusion GPS has fed journalists in the past. Why are so few journalists willing to look into Fusion GPS?”

In order to report honestly on the Trump scandals, a weakened press would have to report honestly on Fusion GPS—which would mean lifting the lid on the incompetence and malfeasance of their own institutions and colleagues, which would reveal a scandal as threatening to democracy as anything Trump has said or done. “Imagine if they subpoena Fusion GPS’s emails,” said a veteran Washington reporter, “there are going to be lots of journalists in there who’ve taken stories from them. Big names, senior figures in the field. It will look like an apocalypse.”

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/241812/news-for-hire-scandal-deepens-gps-fusion-sleazy-venezuela-links-shed-new-light-on-trump-dossier

TLDR.

[Pavlov]

TLDR.From what I skimmed it looks like someone hired Fusion GPS to do what TSA does here for free.

[TSA]

TLDR.

Since when did you become lazy?

[RandomGuy]

Since when did you become lazy?

"44 minutes ago" apparently.

[boutons_deux]

Mossack Fonseca died with no big USA oligarchy tax evaders caught, Fusion will be different?

[boutons_deux]

Latest House Republican effort to derail Trump-Russia investigation cribbed from conspiracy group (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/7/30/1685525/-Latest-House-Republican-effort-to-derail-Trump-Russia-investigation-cribbed-from-conspiracy-group)

they blocked a Democratic amendment asking for more information about the firing of FBI Director James Comey, replacing it instead with an amendment demanding more investigation of ... Hillary Clinton.

By the next evening, Twitter sleuths had identified where the text of that House Republican amendment had been cribbed from: a pro-Trump Reddit conspiracy subgroup (https://www.wired.com/story/republican-staffer-the-donald-resolution).

Thursday night, three Twitter users discovered that

a staffer for one of the resolution’s sponsors attempted to crowdsource a number of the resolution's salient points from r/The_Donald, a subreddit notorious for playing host to unfounded conspiracy theories and anti-Islam tendencies.

In other words, not a conventional source of legislative inspiration.

The frequent r/The_Donald visitor asking for the group's input on what House Republicans should be investigating instead of Russian election hacking,

Devinm666, was then confirmed to be legislative assistant Devin Murphy, an aide to Florida Rep. Matt Gaetz.

And Devin Murphy was up-front about his own alt-right notions in posts to the group:



About seven months ago (prior to taking his current job), he referred to Barack Obama as "Barry o'Islama": [...]

In other posts, he refers to

Obama as a "Kenyan Muslim," and

refugees in Germany as "raping savages."

After soliciting potential Clinton scandals to "investigate" instead of Russian election hacking,

Murphy then cribbed from the resulting replies to create an amendment that would block the Democratic effort.

Among its demands: That the United Kingdom-based company of the private investigator who first compiled the now-famous "dossier" of Trump-Russia links be itself investigated, rather than Trump’s own actions.

A key note here is that the "r/The_Donald" subreddit isn't just any pro-Trump group. They're a den of (frequently racist, typically alt-right) conspiracy theory promoters who have pushed such malevolent notions as "Pizzagate",

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/7/30/1685525/-Latest-House-Republican-effort-to-derail-Trump-Russia-investigation-cribbed-from-conspiracy-group?detail=emaildkre

"r/The_Donald" subreddit is source for a Repug amendment to Federal law? holy fucking shit! :lol Slave state FL, of course. :lol

[boutons_deux]

A Republican Ex-Congressman Just Told Robert Reich His Party’s Big Trump Impeachment Secret

President Clinton’s Labor Secretary, Robert Reich, spoke to an old Republican friend of his who used to a member of Congress and got a VERY interesting scoop for his troubles.

Reich’s post is as follows:

This morning I phoned my friend, a former Republican member of Congress. ( anonymous sources! :lol )

Me: What’s going on? Seems like the White House is imploding, and Republicans are going down with the ship.

Him (chuckling): We’re officially a banana republic.

Me: Seriously, what are you hearing from your former colleagues on the Hill?

Him: They’re convinced Trump is out of his gourd.

Me: So what are they going to do about it?

Him: Remember what I told you at the start of this circus? They planned to use Trump’s antics for cover, to get done what they most wanted – big tax cuts, rollbacks of regulations, especially financial. They’d work with Pence behind the scenes and forget the crazy uncle in the attic.

Me: Yeah.

Him: Well, I’m hearing a different story now. Stuff with Sessions is pissing them off. And now Trump’s hired that horse’s ass Scaramucci — a communications director who talks dirty on CNN! Plus Trump’s numbers are in freefall. They think he’s gonna hurt them in ’18 and ’20.

Me: So what’s the plan?

Him: They want him outa there.

Me: Really? Impeachment?

Him: Doubt it, unless Mueller comes up with a smoking gun.

Me: Or if he fires Mueller.

Him: Not gonna happen.

Me: So how do they get him out?

Him: Put someone else up in ’20. Lots of maneuvering already. Pence, obviously. Cruz thinks he has a shot. :lol

Me: But that won’t help them in the midterms. What’s the plan before then?

Him: Lots think he’s fritzing out.

Me: Fritzing out?

Him: Going totally bananas. Paranoia. You want to know why he fired Priebus, wants Sessions out, and is now gunning for Tillerson?

Me: He wants to shake things up?

Him (chuckling): No. The way I hear it, he thinks they’ve been plotting against him.

Me: What do you mean?

Him: Twenty-fifth amendment! Read it!

A Cabinet can get rid of a president who’s nuts.

Trump thinks they’ve been preparing a palace coup.

So one by one, he’s firing them.

Me: I find it hard to believe they’re plotting against him.

Him: Of course not! It’s ludicrous. Sessions is a loyal lapdog. Tillerson doesn’t know where the bathroom is. That’s my point. Trump is fritzing out. Having manic delusions. He’s actually going nuts.

Me: And?

Him: Well, it’s downright dangerous.

Me: Yeah, but that still doesn’t tell me what Republicans are planning to do about it.

Him: Look. How long do you think it will be before everyone in Washington knows he’s flipping out?

I don’t mean just weird. I mean really off his rocker.

Me: I don’t know.

Him: No all that long.

Me: So what are you telling me?

Him: They don’t have to plot against him.

It will be obvious to everyone that he’s got to go.

That’s where the twenty-fifth amendment really does comes in.

Me: So you think…

Him: Who knows?

But he’s losing it fast.

My betting is he’s out of office before the midterms.

And Pence is president.

http://washingtonjournal.com/2017/07/31/republican-congressman-just-told-robert-reich-partys-big-trump-impeachment-secret/

[boutons_deux]

Republican Cornyn gets schooled in how a kleptocracy works and it sounds a lot like the GOP (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/7/28/1685010/-Republican-Cornyn-gets-schooled-in-how-a-kleptocracy-works-and-it-sounds-a-lot-like-the-GOP)

In front of Sen. Cornyn on Thursday, was CEO of Hermitage Capital Management William Browder.

Browder has testified very clearly that Putin wants there to be an end to the Magnitsky Act, and most specifically to the sanctions and financial consequences in the act, as they pertain to Putin's vast financial network. (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/7/28/1684989/-William-Browder-breaks-down-exactly-what-Putin-wanted-from-Trump-and-why)

Cornyn’s job was to say, hey, the president can only do so much—why would Vladimir Putin think he can get rid of a law with just a president?


Browder: Absolutely. You have really brought up a hugely important point,especially as it relates to Russia or any kleptocratic regime.

That in a kleptocracy, like Russia and other countries, the way that the world works is that the president of that country allows certain people to get rich, and he often gets a share of the wealth. Of those people.

And then he can rely on those people to do the state’s bidding in situations where it may not be appropriate or they may not want to show the government's face.

In Russia it’s an entirely informal system like that and there is absolute documentary evidence of people who have gotten rich through Vladimir Putin,

who have then done lots of foreign policy work—not just in America but also all over the world—in order to further Putin's agenda,

which is adverse to decency and democracy and liberal thought.


https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/7/28/1685010/-Republican-Cornyn-gets-schooled-in-how-a-kleptocracy-works-and-it-sounds-a-lot-like-the-GOP?detail=emaildkre

[boutons_deux]

Powerful testimony on exactly what Vladimir Putin wanted from Trump and why (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/7/28/1684989/-William-Browder-breaks-down-exactly-what-Putin-wanted-from-Trump-and-why)

It was Mr. Browder’s former Russian lawyer—Sergei Magnitsky, killed by the Russian State apparatus under Putin’s control in 2009—that led to the passing of the Magnitsky Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnitsky_Act) under President Obama.

Browder: Vladimir Putin, I believe him to be the richest man in the world, I believe him to be worth 200 billion dollars.

That money is held in banks all over the world, in America and all over.

The purpose of Putin’s regime has been to commit terrible crimes in order to get that money, and he doesn’t want to lose that money by having it frozen.

So he personally is at risk of the Magnitsky Act. It’s a very personal, venal issue which is why, the first reason, why he’s so upset.

The second reason is that in order to get that $200 billion, he has had to instruct a lot of people working for him—let’s say ten thousand people working for him—to do terrible things: to arrest, kidnap, torture, and kill to take people's properties away.

And as a result, the only way to get people to do such terrible things, is to say, if you do these terrible things, there will be no consequence. You will enjoy absolute impunity.

As a result of the Magnitsky Act, he can no longer guarantee absolute impunity, because all-of-a-sudden, we have created consequences in the West.

I would not understate the value of the Magnitsky Act in terms of the consequences, because not only does it freeze the assets that are held in America, but

the moment you get put on the Magnitsky List, you get put on the OFAC Sanctions List—which is a Treasury sanctions list.

No bank in the world wants to be in violation of Treasury sanctions.

And therefore, any bank, even if it is in South Korea or Dubai, if they see somebody on the Treasury sanctions list, [they] will close their account that day.

And as a result, you basically become a financial pariah, and so it’s a real consequence.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/7/28/1684989/-William-Browder-breaks-down-exactly-what-Putin-wanted-from-Trump-and-why

[pgardn]

Pootin ain't mad at Trump. He's mad, like us at the system. Trump/Pootin could have, would have done great things..

Putin's mad at democracy...
Well go figure.

What great things were going to happen?
Or were they just tremendous things,
kinda like the fantastic new health care plan that the Orange never had?

Great things... Superlative fever is rampant among Trumpys, even with all the fails.

Trump president not Clinton.
Get something the fck done.

[Thread]

Putin's mad at democracy...
Well go figure.

What great things were going to happen?
Or were they just tremendous things,
kinda like the fantastic new health care plan that the Orange never had?

Great things... Superlative fever is rampant among Trumpys, even with all the fails.

Trump president not Clinton.
Get something the fck done.

---a big fat raspberry---

Got to have a boogeyman to keep us pinned down for 70+ years.

With their country & our country? The sky was the fuckin' limit & (you) knew it.

What a fucking waste.

[AaronY]

Boutons cartoons are even lamer than Chris's if thats possible

[djohn2oo8]

892170812651864065
Its Mueller time bitches.

[djohn2oo8]

892171727500869632

[djohn2oo8]

892175173042008066

[djohn2oo8]

892175906248290308

[djohn2oo8]

892178217423040513

[djohn2oo8]

892056577561300992

[Thread]

892170812651864065
Its Mueller time bitches.


892171727500869632


892175173042008066


892175906248290308


892178217423040513


892056577561300992

FAKE NEWS

[djohn2oo8]

892180512260968448

[TSA]

Its Mueller time bitches.

:rollin you even talk like that dumb kunt Mensch now :rollin

[AaronY]

892180512260968448
And in this fantasy world of yours the Republican Congress is going to impeach him?

[Thread]

And in this fantasy world of yours the Republican Congress is going to impeach him?

I sure as Hell wouldn't put it pass them.

[pgardn]

I sure as Hell wouldn't put it pass them.

Well yeah.

The pumpkin head is making it easier every month.
He calls his own party a bunch of idiots when he himself claimed to have numerous tremendous plans.
But who knew things were so complicated? Oh... basically the rest of the thinking world.

[djohn2oo8]

And in this fantasy world of yours the Republican Congress is going to impeach him?

Lol firing Priebus, and firing Sessions will piss them off besides the fact they couldn't get anything passed they will see him as a liability. Oh and the fact he is starting to publicly call them idiots.

[djohn2oo8]

892355585353674752
Damn TSA taking another L.

[djohn2oo8]

I sure as Hell wouldn't put it pass them.

Trump prison. Not Hillary.

[RandomGuy]

Lol firing Priebus, and firing Sessions will piss them off besides the fact they couldn't get anything passed they will see him as a liability. Oh and the fact he is starting to publicly call them idiots.

https://content.artofmanliness.com/uploads/2014/10/Gird-Up-Your-Loins-2.jpg

[RandomGuy]

Trump dictated son’s misleading statement on meeting with Russian lawyer

On the sidelines of the Group of 20 summit in Germany last month, President Trump’s advisers discussed how to respond to a new revelation that Trump’s oldest son had met with a Russian lawyer during the 2016 campaign — a disclosure the advisers knew carried political and potentially legal peril.

The strategy, the advisers agreed, should be for Donald Trump Jr. to release a statement to get ahead of the story. They wanted to be truthful, so their account couldn’t be repudiated later if the full details emerged.

But within hours, at the president’s direction, the plan changed.

Flying home from Germany on July 8 aboard Air Force One, Trump personally dictated a statement in which Trump Jr. said that he and the Russian lawyer had “primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children” when they met in June 2016, according to multiple people with knowledge of the deliberations. The statement, issued to the New York Times as it prepared an article, emphasized that the subject of the meeting was “not a campaign issue at the time.”

The claims were later shown to be misleading.

President-elect Donald Trump and his son Donald Trump Jr. at a news conference at Trump Tower in New York on Jan. 11. (Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post)
Over the next three days, multiple accounts of the meeting were provided to the news media as public pressure mounted, with Trump Jr. ultimately acknowledging that he had accepted the meeting after receiving an email promising damaging information about Hillary Clinton as part of a Russian government effort to help his father’s campaign.

The extent of the president’s personal intervention in his son’s response, the details of which have not previously been reported, adds to a series of actions that Trump has taken that some advisers fear could place him and some members of his inner circle in legal jeopardy.

As special counsel Robert S. Mueller III looks into potential obstruction of justice as part of his broader investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 election, these advisers worry that the president’s direct involvement leaves him needlessly vulnerable to allegations of a coverup.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-dictated-sons-misleading-statement-on-meeting-with-russian-lawyer/2017/07/31/04c94f96-73ae-11e7-8f39-eeb7d3a2d304_story.html?utm_term=.f6ab531df017

[Pavlov]

Trump dictated son’s misleading statement on meeting with Russian lawyer

On the sidelines of the Group of 20 summit in Germany last month, President Trump’s advisers discussed how to respond to a new revelation that Trump’s oldest son had met with a Russian lawyer during the 2016 campaign — a disclosure the advisers knew carried political and potentially legal peril.

The strategy, the advisers agreed, should be for Donald Trump Jr. to release a statement to get ahead of the story. They wanted to be truthful, so their account couldn’t be repudiated later if the full details emerged.

But within hours, at the president’s direction, the plan changed.

Flying home from Germany on July 8 aboard Air Force One, Trump personally dictated a statement in which Trump Jr. said that he and the Russian lawyer had “primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children” when they met in June 2016, according to multiple people with knowledge of the deliberations. The statement, issued to the New York Times as it prepared an article, emphasized that the subject of the meeting was “not a campaign issue at the time.”

The claims were later shown to be misleading.

President-elect Donald Trump and his son Donald Trump Jr. at a news conference at Trump Tower in New York on Jan. 11. (Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post)
Over the next three days, multiple accounts of the meeting were provided to the news media as public pressure mounted, with Trump Jr. ultimately acknowledging that he had accepted the meeting after receiving an email promising damaging information about Hillary Clinton as part of a Russian government effort to help his father’s campaign.

The extent of the president’s personal intervention in his son’s response, the details of which have not previously been reported, adds to a series of actions that Trump has taken that some advisers fear could place him and some members of his inner circle in legal jeopardy.

As special counsel Robert S. Mueller III looks into potential obstruction of justice as part of his broader investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 election, these advisers worry that the president’s direct involvement leaves him needlessly vulnerable to allegations of a coverup.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-dictated-sons-misleading-statement-on-meeting-with-russian-lawyer/2017/07/31/04c94f96-73ae-11e7-8f39-eeb7d3a2d304_story.html?utm_term=.f6ab531df017Now, more than ever it is critical we come together as a country and agree the leak is the real crime here.

[Reck]

892175173042008066

It's a shame John Kelly decided to go down with the sinking ship.

How does he not know this kind of fuckery is going on in the WH? Everyone's careers will be ruined by the end.

[RandomGuy]

It's a shame John Kelly decided to go down with the sinking ship.

How does he not know this kind of fuckery is going on in the WH? Everyone's careers will be ruined by the end.

Find the Full Frontal episode about Trumps Spreading Taint.

[RandomGuy]

892170812651864065
Its Mueller time bitches.

https://compostpedallers.com/sites/default/files/mueller_time.jpg

Better than hiding in the bushes.

[Pavlov]

892170812651864065
Its Mueller time bitches.
Holy shit this thing goes waaaaaay deep.

[RandomGuy]

(waaay deep)

https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/photos/uncategorized/2009/04/02/smokinggun.jpg

[RandomGuy]

Well yeah.

The pumpkin head is making it easier every month.
He calls his own party a bunch of idiots when he himself claimed to have numerous tremendous plans.
But who knew things were so complicated? Oh... basically the rest of the thinking world.

Donald the Unready...

https://media.tenor.com/images/6f66121f6a209cbdf0d5a4183ee03504/tenor.gif


is rapidly morphing into the Mad King.

http://nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/the-mad-king-game-of-thrones.jpg

The analogy gets scary when you start thinking about North Korea and the recent rumblings.


Will the Mad King lose another aircraft carrier...? :wow

..

[Reck]

At this point how can anyone not say Trump didn't collude with Russia? The motherfucker colludes with anyone that can help him.

I want to see the spin they put on the new collusion with Fox. :lol

[djohn2oo8]

It's a shame John Kelly decided to go down with the sinking ship.

How does he not know this kind of fuckery is going on in the WH? Everyone's careers will be ruined by the end.

Kelly is a whitehat. A chess move by Mueller.

[Pavlov]

Kelly is a whitehat. A chess move by Mueller.Smoothing the way for the military coup.

[djohn2oo8]

Smoothing the way for the military coup.
Yep.
892384299143626752

[Pavlov]

lol I'm not that far down the rabbit hole yet. The non-Flynn military dudes were his best hires tho.

[djohn2oo8]

892380397920817152

[djohn2oo8]

lol I'm not that far down the rabbit hole yet. The non-Flynn military dudes were his best hires tho.

They are the reason Trump has not launched a nuclear attack. Well Mattis is.

[boutons_deux]

Kelly is a whitehat. A chess move by Mueller.

False. Kelly is, will be a Good German for Trash

[boutons_deux]

Top 6 Falsehoods Embraced by new WH Chief of Staff John Kelly


https://www.commondreams.org/sites/default/files/styles/cd_large/public/views-article/kelly.jpg?itok=ErvTw3_6

1. Kelly thinks (https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2017/04/25/homeland-security-john-kelly-unhinged/viy0TgjP0p54ovFHDWO8KJ/story.html) we are under siege:

“We are under attack from failed states, cyber-terrorists, vicious smugglers, and sadistic radicals. And we are under attack every single day. The threats are relentless.”

As Michael Cohen wrote in response at the Boston Globe, “Cyber-terrorists have never killed an American citizen, no failed state threatens America and more Americans are killed by lightning strikes than sadistic radicals.”

2. Kelly said that construction on Trump’s border wall (http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/21/politics/jeff-sessions-john-kelly-border-wall-cnntv/index.html) would begin by the end of this summer. It won’t.

3. Nor is the wall needed or wanted by a majority of Americans. Kelly is almost delusional about US immigration enforcement: (http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/21/politics/jeff-sessions-john-kelly-border-wall-cnntv/index.html)

“”Nothing’s been done in the past eight years to to enforce the border rules and regulations, not to mention many of the immigration laws inside of the United States…”

Fact: The Obama administration deported at least as many people (http://www.snopes.com/obama-deported-more-people/) as the Bush administration had, if you use the same definition for deportations in both administrations. By sheer reported numbers, Obama deported some 2.5 million people during his 8 years while Bush deported 2 million. They probably actually deported about the same number. Kelly’s bizarre notion that the laws were not implemented since 2009 is flat wrong.

4. Kelly wanted to prioritize deportation of undocumented people who use marijuana on the circa 1910 grounds that it is a “gateway drug.” (https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/04/19/does-anyone-still-believe-marijuana-gateway-drug)It is not, or Colorado would be nothing but heroin addicts. Legalization of marijuana tracks with lower crime rates.

5. Kelly said of reports that Jared Kushner had met with the Russians during the campaign, before these reports were confirmed, that “any channel of communication” with Russia “is a good thing.” (http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/28/kelly-russia-kushner-communications-238895)

6. Not to mention Kelly’s bizarre performance during Trump’s first attempt at a Muslim ban, when he gladly acted without any regard to the US constitution and claimed to have authored the policy (Bannon and Miller sprang it on him).

The most dangerous thing of all is the Kelly is a good soldier and will do as he is told by Trump.

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2017/08/01/top-6-falsehoods-embraced-new-wh-chief-staff-john-kelly

[boutons_deux]

Richard W. Painter @RWPUSA (https://twitter.com/RWPUSA)

Knowingly drafting a false statement for a person

who is a witness in a criminal investigation is itself a crime.

Obstruction of justice

11:51 AM - Aug 1, 2017 (https://twitter.com/RWPUSA/status/892427568179290112)

[boutons_deux]

Huckabee admits Trash obstructed justice

Sarah Huckabee Sanders Suggests Trump ‘Weighed In On’ Son’s Response To Russia Meeting

White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders on Tuesday all but confirmed that President Donald Trump (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/topic/donald-trump) dictated his son’s public response to a meeting with a Russian lawyer.

Her statement directly contradicts the president’s legal team and may place him in legal jeopardy, as there are multiple ongoing investigations into whether the Trump campaign colluded with Russia last year.

“Look, the statement that Don Jr. issued is true,” she said. “There’s no inaccuracy in the statement. The president weighed in

as any father would, based on the limited information that he had.” :lol

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-jr-russia-meeting_us_5980c9bee4b00bb8ff3a27a2?utm_medium=ema il&utm_campaign=__BREAKING__%20Sarah%20Huckabee%20San ders%20Suggests%20Trump%20Weighed%20In%20On%20Sons %20Response%20To%20Russia%20Meeting&utm_content=__BREAKING__%20Sarah%20Huckabee%20Sand ers%20Suggests%20Trump%20Weighed%20In%20On%20Sons% 20Response%20To%20Russia%20Meeting+CID_4c12a7ae866 f8d1e2834b79ccfee207d&utm_source=Email%20marketing%20software&utm_term=Read%20More&ncid=newsltushpmgnews__BREAKING__%20Sarah%20Huckab ee%20Sanders%20Suggests%20Trump%20Weighed%20In%20O n%20Sons%20Response%20To%20Russia%20Meeting

[Reck]

DarrinS what's up? Saw you reading a while back and then you went into hiding again? What's going on? :lol

[Pavlov]

Huckabee admits Trash obstructed justice

Sarah Huckabee Sanders Suggests Trump ‘Weighed In On’ Son’s Response To Russia Meeting

White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders on Tuesday all but confirmed that President Donald Trump (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/topic/donald-trump) dictated his son’s public response to a meeting with a Russian lawyer.

Her statement directly contradicts the president’s legal team and may place him in legal jeopardy, as there are multiple ongoing investigations into whether the Trump campaign colluded with Russia last year.

“Look, the statement that Don Jr. issued is true,” she said. “There’s no inaccuracy in the statement. The president weighed in

as any father would, based on the limited information that he had.” :lol

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-jr-russia-meeting_us_5980c9bee4b00bb8ff3a27a2?utm_medium=ema il&utm_campaign=__BREAKING__%20Sarah%20Huckabee%20San ders%20Suggests%20Trump%20Weighed%20In%20On%20Sons %20Response%20To%20Russia%20Meeting&utm_content=__BREAKING__%20Sarah%20Huckabee%20Sand ers%20Suggests%20Trump%20Weighed%20In%20On%20Sons% 20Response%20To%20Russia%20Meeting+CID_4c12a7ae866 f8d1e2834b79ccfee207d&utm_source=Email%20marketing%20software&utm_term=Read%20More&ncid=newsltushpmgnews__BREAKING__%20Sarah%20Huckab ee%20Sanders%20Suggests%20Trump%20Weighed%20In%20O n%20Sons%20Response%20To%20Russia%20Meeting


lol Shuckabee just inviting Mueller to investigate the boss.

[TSA]

892355585353674752
Damn TSA taking another L.

Audio: Rod Wheeler Explains Fox News Fiasco, Claims Brother Blocked WikiLeaks Inquiries
http://bigleaguepolitics.com/audio-rod-wheeler-explains-fox-news-fiasco-claims-brother-blocked-wikileaks-inquiries/

2p8at6PD4L8

[Thread]

Huckabee admits Trash obstructed justice

Sarah Huckabee Sanders Suggests Trump ‘Weighed In On’ Son’s Response To Russia Meeting

White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders on Tuesday all but confirmed that President Donald Trump (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/topic/donald-trump) dictated his son’s public response to a meeting with a Russian lawyer.

Her statement directly contradicts the president’s legal team and may place him in legal jeopardy, as there are multiple ongoing investigations into whether the Trump campaign colluded with Russia last year.

“Look, the statement that Don Jr. issued is true,” she said. “There’s no inaccuracy in the statement. The president weighed in

as any father would, based on the limited information that he had.” :lol

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-jr-russia-meeting_us_5980c9bee4b00bb8ff3a27a2?utm_medium=ema il&utm_campaign=__BREAKING__%20Sarah%20Huckabee%20San ders%20Suggests%20Trump%20Weighed%20In%20On%20Sons %20Response%20To%20Russia%20Meeting&utm_content=__BREAKING__%20Sarah%20Huckabee%20Sand ers%20Suggests%20Trump%20Weighed%20In%20On%20Sons% 20Response%20To%20Russia%20Meeting+CID_4c12a7ae866 f8d1e2834b79ccfee207d&utm_source=Email%20marketing%20software&utm_term=Read%20More&ncid=newsltushpmgnews__BREAKING__%20Sarah%20Huckab ee%20Sanders%20Suggests%20Trump%20Weighed%20In%20O n%20Sons%20Response%20To%20Russia%20Meeting




Ain't nothing wrong with a father helping his son.

My boy took the company car around the corner for luncheon a few years back. They found out and called him on the carpet.

Luckily they notified him on Friday to come in on Monday. That's the only thing that saved his job. Saturday he calls his mother & I and tells us the tale and that Monday morning he'll go in there, say he did it, apologize and ask to return to his job.

Long story short. His mother & I spent the remaining weekend coaching this youngster and composing a letter, it's always better to put it down in writing first--then keep to that script in the telling.

Kids don't know shit about the world and how it works. That's what parents are for. You stand twixt them and that world until you both stand no more.

[Pavlov]

Audio: Rod Wheeler Explains Fox News Fiasco, Claims Brother Blocked WikiLeaks Inquiries
http://bigleaguepolitics.com/audio-rod-wheeler-explains-fox-news-fiasco-claims-brother-blocked-wikileaks-inquiries/

2p8at6PD4L8Still going with the family's happily sacrificing Seth for the greater glory of the DNC conspiracy theory, eh?

Edited to add: :lol

[TSA]

Still going with the family's happily sacrificing Seth for the greater glory of the DNC conspiracy theory, eh?

Edited to add: :lol

Posted it to show Wheeler's ever changing story.

[Pavlov]

Posted it to show Wheeler's ever changing story.So what is your story this time?

[TSA]

So what is your story this time?

I don't have a story I'm just following it as it unfolds.

[Pavlov]

I don't have a story I'm just following it as it unfolds.So you have not one suspicion or theory?

Well that's bullshit.

[TSA]

So you have not one suspicion or theory?

Well that's bullshit.

I don't think it was a botched robbery.

Do you have a suspicion or theory or are you satisfied with the botched robbery story?

[Pavlov]

I don't think it was a botched robbery.

Do you have a suspicion or theory or are you satisfied with the botched robbery story?Fairly satisfied it was something along those lines tbh. I just don't think an amateur serial killer hitman would get so needlessly close to Seth as to get into a physical altercation with him. If you would like to expand on the amateur serial killer hitman theory or whatever other theory you have, I'm open to reading it.

[Reck]

I don't think it was a botched robbery.

Do you have a suspicion or theory or are you satisfied with the botched robbery story?

Shitty excuse to kill somebody because he may or may not have leaked something.

You're too in love with the Clintons are serial killers narrative to bother seeing reality.

I mean, they must have a fuck ton of people on their payroll and hopelessly faithfull in all those people keeping quiet.

[TSA]

Fairly satisfied it was something along those lines tbh. I just don't think an amateur serial killer hitman would get so needlessly close to Seth as to get into a physical altercation with him. If you would like to expand on the amateur serial killer hitman theory or whatever other theory you have, I'm open to reading it.

Tough to expand on any theory when the body cam footage seems to be missing and the transcripts of Rich's conversations with police haven't been released.

[Pavlov]

Tough to expand on any theory when the body cam footage seems to be missing and the transcripts of Rich's conversations with police haven't been released.And yet you claim to have enough information to conclude its a hit.

Explain.

[TSA]

And yet you claim to have enough information to conclude its a hit.

Explain.

I don't think it was a botched robbery. Until the killer is caught neither one of us is correct.

[Pavlov]

I don't think it was a botched robbery. Until the killer is caught neither one of us is correct.Nice straw man. No one said anything about being correct.

We're talking about our conclusions. I explained mine.

You claim to have enough information to conclude it's a hit.

Explain.

[TSA]

Nice straw man. No one said anything about being correct.

We're talking about our conclusions. I explained mine.

You claim to have enough information to conclude it's a hit.

Explain.

I don't think the killer getting so needlessly close to him defaults his death to a botched robbery.

[Chris]

892512083161391105

[Reck]

892512083161391105

:lmao That broke ass nigga is still loitering about unmasking? Holy shit.

[TSA]

I don't have a story I'm just following it as it unfolds.pretty amazing the MSM immediately has a counter story to run the same day Seymour Hersh audio is leaked saying Seth Rich is the leaker

giuZdBAXVh0


Seymour Hersh discussing WikiLeaks DNC leaks and Seth Rich.
Audio 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giuZdBAXVh0



Seymour Myron "Sy" Hersh (born April 8, 1937) is an American investigative journalist and political writer based in Washington, D.C. He is a longtime contributor to The New Yorker magazine on national security matters and has also written for the London Review of Books since 2013.[5][6]

Hersh first gained recognition in 1969 for exposing the My Lai Massacre and its cover-up during the Vietnam War, for which he received the 1970 Pulitzer Prize for International Reporting. In 2004, he notably reported on the US military's mistreatment of detainees at Abu Ghraib prison. He has also won two National Magazine Awards and five George Polk Awards. In 2004, he received the George Orwell Award.[7]

[TSA]

:lmao That broke ass nigga is still loitering about unmasking? Holy shit.

Senate intelligence committee is as well, both sides of the aisle. Where have you been?

[Pavlov]

I don't think the killer getting so needlessly close to him defaults his death to a botched robbery.
Great tell us what made you arrive at your conclusion.

Don't be shy.

[TSA]

Great tell us what made you arrive at your conclusion.

Don't be shy.

I don't think murders/hits have to take place from a distance.

What are your thoughts on Seymour Hersh's comments? Do you think he's in a ruse to push a conspiracy?

[Reck]

Senate intelligence committee is as well, both sides of the aisle. Where have you been?

It's a non-story.

But I have no problem if the house and senate want to waste their time with this. Nothing will come of this.

Obama and Susan Rice aren't going to jail over this.

[TSA]

It's a non-story.

But I have no problem if the house and senate want to waste their time with this. Nothing will come of this.

Obama and Susan Rice aren't going to jail over this.

Illegal surveillance and unmasking of US citizens for political purposes. Total non-story :lol

https://www.circa.com/story/2017/08/01/embargoed-until-6-pm-former-obama-aide-ben-rhodes-now-a-person-of-interest-in-house-intelligence-committee-unmasking-investigation

Former Obama White House National Security Adviser Ben Rhodes is now an emerging as a person of interest in the House Intelligence Committee’s unmasking investigation, according to a letter sent Tuesday by the committee to the National Security Agency (NSA). This adds Rhodes to the growing list of top Obama government officials who may have improperly unmasked Americans in communications intercepted overseas by the NSA, Circa has confirmed.

The House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes, R-CA, sent the letter to the National Security Agency requesting the number of unmaskings made by Rhodes from Jan. 1, 2016 to Jan. 20, 2017, according to congressional sources who spoke with Circa. Rhodes, who worked closely with former National Security Adviser Susan Rice and was a former deputy national security adviser for strategic communications for President Obama, became a focus of the committee during its review of classified information to assess whether laws were broken regarding NSA intercepted communications of President Trump, members of his administration and other Americans before and after the election, according to congressional officials. The committee is requesting that the NSA deliver the information on Rhodes by August, 21.

Former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Samantha Power, Rice and former CIA Director John Brennan have all been named in the House Intelligence Committee's investigation into the unmasking of Americans. A letter sent last week from Nunes to Dan Coats, the director of National Intelligence, suggested that top Obama aides made hundreds of unmasking requests during the 2016 presidential elections. The story, which was first reported by The Hill last week, stated that the requests were made without specific justifications as to why the unmasking was necessary. Rice and Brennan have confirmed they sought the unredacted names of Americans in NSA-sourced intelligence reports but insisted their requests were routine parts of their work and had no nefarious intentions. Power also has legal authority to unmask officials, though the practice has not reportedly been common for someone in her position. Rhodes also had legal authority to unmask Americans in NSA-source intelligence reports. But intelligence and congressional sources question the extent of the unmasking.

Nunes told Coats in a letter last week that the committee has "found evidence that current and former government officials had easy access to U.S. person information and that it is possible that they used this information to achieve partisan political purposes, including the selective, anonymous leaking of such information.”

Multiple federal law enforcement and intelligence officials told Circa, that requesting an unmasking for intelligence and analytical purposes is something that is done only when the information is absolutely necessary to analyze a specific threat or for other national security purposes. An intelligence source, with direct knowledge of the type of requests made by the Obama aides, said "it's like hell and high water to fill out and gain approval for these types of unmaskings. It's something analysts take seriously and could entail filling out 80 pages of paperwork to prove there is a need to unmask. If top officials were unmasking without oversight it's something everyone should be concerned about and it puts our intelligence community in a very bad place."

Retired House Intelligence Committee Chairman Pete Hoekstra, (R-MI) and nominee to be U.S. ambassador to the Netherlands, who was a supporter of the NSA programs, said he is "deeply concerned" that there may have been an abuse of power regarding the warrantless spying programs, saying "there needs to be a full investigation into who was being unmasked and why. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if there isn't enough votes to reauthorize the program, unless this situation can be resolved."

Hoekstra noted how unusual it was for senior officials to request hundreds of unmaskings of Americans and "the apparent lack of explanation for why such unmaskings were necessary."

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act is set to expire at the end of the year and the most significant part of the act is Section 702, which allows a secret federal court to approve - under specified conditions - the collection of communications on foreign persons overseas at the request of the intelligence community. The unmasking of American's occurs when an American is communicating with a person overseas and they are incidentally swept up in the communications.

"It appears Section 702 became a backdoor for unmasking Americans without cause and if that is the case then a full investigation is not only needed but warranted," said another intelligence official, with direct knowledge of the program. "It would be a gross violation of Constitutional rights."

Last week, CNN reported Rhodes met with the Senate Intelligence Committee to discuss the Russia probe. The panel did not respond to comment seeking confirmation of the meeting.

Rice and Brennan have confirmed they sought the unredacted names of Americans in NSA-sourced intelligence reports but insisted their requests were routine parts of their work and had no nefarious intentions. Power, as U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations also has legal authority to unmask officials, though the practice has not reportedly been common for someone in her position. Rhodes, who served as deputy national security adviser, also had legal authority to unmask Americans in NSA-source intelligence reports. But intelligence and congressional sources question the extent of the unmasking.

The number of Americans' identities who have been unmasked appears to have increased beginning last July around the same time Trump secured the GOP nomination. The number accelerated after Trump’s election in November launched a transition that continued through January, as reported by Circa.

U.S. officials and lawmakers have raised concern that the gathering of such intelligence was used for political espionage, Circa has learned.

According to U.S. officials who spoke to Circa on condition of anonymity, the intelligence reports included some intercepts of Americans talking to foreigners and many more involving foreign leaders talking about the future president, his campaign associates or his transition. They noted that most of the intercepts had little to do with the Russian election interference scandal and some appeared to have nothing to do with national security.

During his last year in office the Obama administration significantly expanded efforts to search National Security Agency intercepts for information about Americans, distributing thousands of intelligence reports across government with the unredacted names of U.S. residents during the midst of a divisive 2016 presidential election. The data was made available by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and reported by Circa in May. It provided evidence of how information accidentally collected by the NSA overseas about Americans was subsequently searched and disseminated after the Obama administration loosened privacy protections asked for by the intelligence community to make such sharing easier in 2011.

According to the documents reviewed by Circa, government officials conducted 30,355 searches in 2016 seeking information about Americans in NSA intercept meta-data, which include telephone numbers and email addresses. The activity was a 27.5 percent increase over the prior year and more than triple the 9,500 such searches that occurred in 2013, the first year such data was kept. In 2016 the administration also scoured the actual contents of NSA intercepted calls and emails for 5,288 Americans, an increase of 13 percent over the prior year and a massive spike from the 198 names searched in 2013, according to the data.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Tldr

[Reck]

Illegal surveillance and unmasking of US citizens for political purposes. Total non-story :lol

https://www.circa.com/story/2017/08/01/embargoed-until-6-pm-former-obama-aide-ben-rhodes-now-a-person-of-interest-in-house-intelligence-committee-unmasking-investigation

Former Obama White House National Security Adviser Ben Rhodes is now an emerging as a person of interest in the House Intelligence Committee’s unmasking investigation, according to a letter sent Tuesday by the committee to the National Security Agency (NSA). This adds Rhodes to the growing list of top Obama government officials who may have improperly unmasked Americans in communications intercepted overseas by the NSA, Circa has confirmed.

The House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes, R-CA, sent the letter to the National Security Agency requesting the number of unmaskings made by Rhodes from Jan. 1, 2016 to Jan. 20, 2017, according to congressional sources who spoke with Circa. Rhodes, who worked closely with former National Security Adviser Susan Rice and was a former deputy national security adviser for strategic communications for President Obama, became a focus of the committee during its review of classified information to assess whether laws were broken regarding NSA intercepted communications of President Trump, members of his administration and other Americans before and after the election, according to congressional officials. The committee is requesting that the NSA deliver the information on Rhodes by August, 21.

Former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Samantha Power, Rice and former CIA Director John Brennan have all been named in the House Intelligence Committee's investigation into the unmasking of Americans. A letter sent last week from Nunes to Dan Coats, the director of National Intelligence, suggested that top Obama aides made hundreds of unmasking requests during the 2016 presidential elections. The story, which was first reported by The Hill last week, stated that the requests were made without specific justifications as to why the unmasking was necessary. Rice and Brennan have confirmed they sought the unredacted names of Americans in NSA-sourced intelligence reports but insisted their requests were routine parts of their work and had no nefarious intentions. Power also has legal authority to unmask officials, though the practice has not reportedly been common for someone in her position. Rhodes also had legal authority to unmask Americans in NSA-source intelligence reports. But intelligence and congressional sources question the extent of the unmasking.

Nunes told Coats in a letter last week that the committee has "found evidence that current and former government officials had easy access to U.S. person information and that it is possible that they used this information to achieve partisan political purposes, including the selective, anonymous leaking of such information.”

Multiple federal law enforcement and intelligence officials told Circa, that requesting an unmasking for intelligence and analytical purposes is something that is done only when the information is absolutely necessary to analyze a specific threat or for other national security purposes. An intelligence source, with direct knowledge of the type of requests made by the Obama aides, said "it's like hell and high water to fill out and gain approval for these types of unmaskings. It's something analysts take seriously and could entail filling out 80 pages of paperwork to prove there is a need to unmask. If top officials were unmasking without oversight it's something everyone should be concerned about and it puts our intelligence community in a very bad place."

Retired House Intelligence Committee Chairman Pete Hoekstra, (R-MI) and nominee to be U.S. ambassador to the Netherlands, who was a supporter of the NSA programs, said he is "deeply concerned" that there may have been an abuse of power regarding the warrantless spying programs, saying "there needs to be a full investigation into who was being unmasked and why. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if there isn't enough votes to reauthorize the program, unless this situation can be resolved."

Hoekstra noted how unusual it was for senior officials to request hundreds of unmaskings of Americans and "the apparent lack of explanation for why such unmaskings were necessary."

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act is set to expire at the end of the year and the most significant part of the act is Section 702, which allows a secret federal court to approve - under specified conditions - the collection of communications on foreign persons overseas at the request of the intelligence community. The unmasking of American's occurs when an American is communicating with a person overseas and they are incidentally swept up in the communications.

"It appears Section 702 became a backdoor for unmasking Americans without cause and if that is the case then a full investigation is not only needed but warranted," said another intelligence official, with direct knowledge of the program. "It would be a gross violation of Constitutional rights."

Last week, CNN reported Rhodes met with the Senate Intelligence Committee to discuss the Russia probe. The panel did not respond to comment seeking confirmation of the meeting.

Rice and Brennan have confirmed they sought the unredacted names of Americans in NSA-sourced intelligence reports but insisted their requests were routine parts of their work and had no nefarious intentions. Power, as U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations also has legal authority to unmask officials, though the practice has not reportedly been common for someone in her position. Rhodes, who served as deputy national security adviser, also had legal authority to unmask Americans in NSA-source intelligence reports. But intelligence and congressional sources question the extent of the unmasking.

The number of Americans' identities who have been unmasked appears to have increased beginning last July around the same time Trump secured the GOP nomination. The number accelerated after Trump’s election in November launched a transition that continued through January, as reported by Circa.

U.S. officials and lawmakers have raised concern that the gathering of such intelligence was used for political espionage, Circa has learned.

According to U.S. officials who spoke to Circa on condition of anonymity, the intelligence reports included some intercepts of Americans talking to foreigners and many more involving foreign leaders talking about the future president, his campaign associates or his transition. They noted that most of the intercepts had little to do with the Russian election interference scandal and some appeared to have nothing to do with national security.

During his last year in office the Obama administration significantly expanded efforts to search National Security Agency intercepts for information about Americans, distributing thousands of intelligence reports across government with the unredacted names of U.S. residents during the midst of a divisive 2016 presidential election. The data was made available by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and reported by Circa in May. It provided evidence of how information accidentally collected by the NSA overseas about Americans was subsequently searched and disseminated after the Obama administration loosened privacy protections asked for by the intelligence community to make such sharing easier in 2011.

According to the documents reviewed by Circa, government officials conducted 30,355 searches in 2016 seeking information about Americans in NSA intercept meta-data, which include telephone numbers and email addresses. The activity was a 27.5 percent increase over the prior year and more than triple the 9,500 such searches that occurred in 2013, the first year such data was kept. In 2016 the administration also scoured the actual contents of NSA intercepted calls and emails for 5,288 Americans, an increase of 13 percent over the prior year and a massive spike from the 198 names searched in 2013, according to the data.

TL'DR.

My comment stands. Obama nor Susan Rice will face any penalty.

I think it says a lot that even Trump moved on from this fallacy that Obama had him wiretapped or messed with any of his people. And yet here you still are pushing this ridiculous notion. :lol

[TSA]

TL'DR.

My comment stands. Obama nor Susan Rice will face any penalty.

I think it says a lot that even Trump moved on from this fallacy that Obama had him wiretapped or messed with any of his people. And yet here you still are pushing this ridiculous notion. :lol

When all you do is TLDR you are forced to make idiotic comments like you just did.

Trumps team was under surveillance by the Obama admin and his team had their information illegally disseminated. Those are facts not up for dispute.

Shut down your gaming console and give reading a try for once.

[Reck]

When all you do is TLDR you are forced to make idiotic comments like you just did.

Trumps team was under surveillance by the Obama admin and his team had their information illegally disseminated. Those are facts not up for dispute.

Shut down your gaming console and give reading a try for once.

OK guy. Have fun.

[TSA]

OK guy. Have fun.

Any particular source you need these facts from?

[Pavlov]

I don't think murders/hits have to take place from a distance.Your theory pls.


What are your thoughts on Seymour Hersh's comments? Do you think he's in a ruse to push a conspiracy?Your theory pls.

[TSA]

Your theory pls.Seth Rich was killed at close range and it wasn't a botched robbery.

What are your thoughts on Seymour Hersh's comments? Do you think he's in a ruse to push a conspiracy?

[Pavlov]

Seth Rich was killed at close range and it wasn't a botched robbery.Not good enough. Not going to sit through moar YouTubes until you flesh this thing out.

Explain.

If Hersh committed something to paper, post it.

[Reck]

Seth Rich was killed at close range and it wasn't a botched robbery.

What are your thoughts on Seymour Hersh's comments? Do you think he's in a ruse to push a conspiracy?

This guy knows more than the actual police investigators who actually worked on the case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag-RvTUfcdU

[TSA]

This guy knows more than the actual police investigators who actually worked on the case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag-RvTUfcdU

The actual police investigators haven't found a killer. There's no evidence as of now that disproves either theory.

[TSA]

Not good enough. Not going to sit through moar YouTubes until you flesh this thing out.

Explain.

If Hersh committed something to paper, post it.

"Not good enough"
"Not going to"
"Explain"

:lol I forgot how much of a little queen you can turn into. Worse than my pregnant wife.
You've gotten my theory and explanation of why it doesn't go further.

Why are you avoiding the Seymour Hersh audio? Explain.

[TSA]

Tldr

Is this like when you say you don't have scripts on so you can't read, but everyone knows you do have scripts on and actually are reading all the people you claim to ignore?

[TSA]

Reck did you find them on your own or do you still need me to help you?




Any particular source you need these facts from?

[Pavlov]

"Not good enough"
"Not going to"
"Explain"

:lol I forgot how much of a little queen you can turn into. Worse than my pregnant wife.
You've gotten my theory and explanation of why it doesn't go further.

Why are you avoiding the Seymour Hersh audio? Explain.So you can neither explain nor produce any writing from Hersh.

And you made it personal.

Again.

Your theory can't even take the slightest questioning.

[Reck]

The actual police investigators haven't found a killer. There's no evidence as of now that disproves either theory.

No, actually the police said it was likely a botched robbery.


His family and Metropolitan D.C. police have said his death was the result of a botched robbery.


Police ruled his death a homicide — an attempted robbery turned deadly.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-fi-ct-seth-rich-conspiracy-20170523-htmlstory.html

I would reccomend you to read this as it has the backing of the actual police involve in the case saying it was a botched robbery but also the parents.

I'm gonna go ahead and go with the experts and the people who's seeing the body on this one instead of the 4channity-esque theory you are coming up with.

[Reck]

Reck (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14412) did you find them on your own or do you still need me to help you?

LOL thinking I'm going to waste my time on this garbage. You have no case.

I wonder though, if there is evidence that there was this massive unmasking operation going on and it's already a known fact to authorities that Obama and his minions did this, why are they still allow to wallk free?

Ummm.

[Pavlov]

As for Hersh -- well, he has been pretty hit or miss since Vietnam. I can't take his theory as a lock either.

[RandomGuy]

The actual police investigators haven't found a killer. There's no evidence as of now that disproves either theory.

Didn't stop Trump from making up a story about it, and passing that on to state-run media for you to parrot though, did it?

[RandomGuy]

News-For-Hire Scandal Deepens: ‘Fusion GPS’ Sleazy Venezuela Links Shed New Light on Trump Dossier

News of the News: an oppo-research-for-hire outfit of former reporters tries to seed stories in the American press for global clients
By Lee Smith

The Fusion GPS news-for-hire scandal has not only led to the public identification of the source of the “Trump Dossier”—a for-profit company that provides opposition research to whoever could write big checks, which is staffed by four former Wall Street Journal reporters led by Glenn Simpson. The scandal has also lifted the lid off a sewer of corporate information warfare and opposition research that the flailing institutions of the mainstream press now regularly re-package as news, without ever saying where it came from—or who paid for it. While the idea that the products of paid opposition research are being main-lined by name news outlets makes an ongoing mockery of claims to objective reporting, that part of the story is hardly new—it goes back at least to the partisan warfare of the 1990s. So why is Fusion GPS such a big deal?

The Trump Dossier, and the firestorm it ignited, is only one piece of the Fusion GPS story. What’s new about Fusion GPS and its fellow DC oppo shops—few of which register as foreign lobbyists—is that they take money from entities linked to foreign governments that are eager to re-frame or invent news stories to punish their enemies at home and torque American foreign policy by controlling information. When you connect the dots between Fusion GPS’s foreign clients and U.S. media outlets, a much more disturbing picture emerges of the firm’s activities, and what they reveal about the weakened state of the American press, and American democracy.

Faith in the outfit’s journalistic expertise and experience is one of the chords that Fusion GPS strikes in its relations with journalists, whether they’re trying to block a story or shop one. “If they have a story they think you’d be interested in,” says one Washington, D.C. journalist familiar with Fusion GPS’s operations, “they call you down to their office on Dupont Circle and show you a dossier. There’s no confidentiality agreement, but it’s understood that if they show you something and you talk about it, you’re cut off, or worse.”

The fact that Fusion GPS has the whip-hand in its relationship with journalists hardly compels the company to be honest—revealing sources is for suckers, especially when your “sources” are paying the bills. At the same time as Fusion GPS was being paid directly by Russian clients in Washington, it was also being paid by a Venezuelan company called Derwick Associates that reportedly skimmed billions of dollars from rigged contracts with Hugo Chavez’s regime—and which did large amounts of business with Russian state companies like Gazprom and Gazprombank that are sanctioned by Washington for issues related to Russia’s involvement in Ukraine. That’s how Fusion GPS kept the lights on.

If taking money from repressive kleptocracies is an ugly business, an even uglier story emerges when you start connecting the dots. Add Fusion GPS’s contracts with Russian and Russian-linked entities together with the company’s role in compiling and distributing a defamatory dossier sourced to the Kremlin, and the idea that the Trump Dossier was a Kremlin information operation becomes quite plausible—with much of the U.S. media serving as the delivery mechanism for a poison dart aimed at the legitimacy of the American democratic system.

But wait: How could the Kremlin be targeting Donald Trump, at the same time as it was trying to elect Trump by hacking John Podesta’s emails and spreading them on Wikileaks, and running anti-Hillary Clinton conspiracy stories on Russia Today? The answer is that the purpose of Russia’s interventions in the 2016 election wasn’t to elect either Clinton or Trump, for a traditional quid pro quo. Information operations don’t work that way; they’re hammers, not scalpels. You can sow distrust and confusion, and pit groups against each other—but you can’t move swing voters in Wisconsin from one column to another with any kind of reliability, and efforts to achieve such a straightforward aim are more likely than not to backfire.

No, the point of the Kremlin’s assault on the American election of 2016 was to defame both candidates, and sow chaos, and thereby to discredit the American system of government, which rests on the consent of the governed. By any measure you care to use, the Kremlin has succeeded, and Fusion GPS was one of its most useful instruments.

***

In order to understand Fusion GPS’s role in Venezuela, and how that work connects to the Trump Dossier and the firm’s other activities in Washington, I recently interviewed the Venezuelan investigative reporter Alek Boyd, who has compiled a dossier of his own about the firm’s activities in his native country. In 2006, Boyd met Thomas Catan, who would later join former Wall Street Journal colleagues Glenn Simpson and Peter Fritsch at Fusion GPS, when Catan was covering the Venezuelan presidential elections for the Times of London.

“Catan’s father was from Mexico, so we spoke to each other in Spanish,” Boyd told me earlier this week in a phone call. “He came to my house for dinner with my family. Fast forward a few years: I’m looking into this group of young Venezuelan businessmen who won $1 billion worth of contracts for power plants in Venezuela, without bidding.” That was Derwick Associates, five young Venezuelan businessmen with ties to figures in the Chavez regime.

Later, as Boyd reported, Derwick also entered into a partnership with Gazprom to enter the Venezuelan oil sector, through a strategic venture with Petroleos de Venezuela (PDVSA). “As soon as Hugo Chavez took over the state oil conglomerate,” says Boyd, “he fired some 20,000 people so he had to replace their knowledge and experience, and he looked to international partnerships, which would have a large percentage, but not a majority stake. Obviously Russia has been staunch supporter all along of Chavez.”

Gazprom, one of Russia’s own state oil conglomerates, entered the Venezuelan market. In one of their ventures, Gazprom partnered with Derwick Associates in a deal with PDVSA. “What does Derwick bring to the table?” Boyd said to me. “They had no track record related to oil. All they had was misappropriated millions and their network of contacts, which they used to provide an expensive loan to Gazprom and insert themselves into a joint PDVSA-Gazprom oil production deal.”

For all Derwick Associates’ ambition, Boyd told me, what was really exceptional about them “was that when journalists started asking questions, they threatened legal action. Most corrupt Venezuelan businessmen get their money and buy a condo in Miami and fly off into the sunset quietly. But these guys seemed to like the attention. They waged an international censorship campaign and it was the clumsiness of the campaign that got my attention.” (Derwick did not respond to requests for comment.)

So Derwick called in Fusion GPS. In 2014 Boyd received a tip that one of Catan’s colleagues at Fusion GPS had flown to Caracas to meet with Derwick principals. “Catan denied it,” Boyd told me. “But I had a copy of a hotel reservation from July 2014 with Peter Fritsch’s name on it.”

Fritsch, said one journalist who knows him, is the man who keeps the trains running on time at Fusion GPS. “Simpson has the contacts,” says the journalist, who asked not to be named, “but Fritsch is the guy who keeps order there.”

The purpose of Fritsch’s visit to Venezuela was to meet with reporters from the Wall Street Journal who were working on an investigative article about Derwick Associates. “Fritsch came with a lawyer, Adam Kaufman, who’d worked with Robert Morgenthau at the New York District Attorney’s office, to silence any further investigations from the Wall Street Journal,” says Boyd. “It was those two, a group of Derwick executives and Journal reporter José de Córdoba. They [said] would provide documents to show the contracts were legitimate, which they never did.”

Another source familiar with the circumstances of the meeting explains that “it was mostly a visual presentation. There were lots of documents but not enough time in a month to go through them.”

Boyd says that the purpose of the trip was to bully the Journal into silence. At the Journal de Córdoba had worked under Fritsch. The Journal published a report from de Córdoba after his visit, but Fritsch’s meeting apparently derailed a longer investigative piece. De Córdoba stated that the “blatant intimidation tactics” he faced made him feel “uncomfortable.”

When asked for comment, Wall Street Journal spokesman Steve Severinghaus sent this statement to Tablet: “The Wall Street Journal doesn’t withhold publication of any articles due to pressure from anyone. In fact, our Aug. 8, 2014, article was at the forefront in reporting federal and New York City preliminary investigations into the Venezuelan company Derwick Associates. The Journal‘s editorial decisions are independent and in keeping with our long tradition of tough and fair reporting.”

***

It looks like De Córdoba was right to feel uncomfortable. On Wednesday, the Senate Judiciary committee heard written testimony from human rights activist Thor Halvorssen regarding Fusion GPS that backs up the account that Boyd gave me. “In 2012 I began researching a Venezuelan corruption scandal that also involved U.S. banks, companies, and even U.S. courts,” the Venezuelan-born Halvorssen writes in his testimony. “This story should have received extensive exposure on the front pages of America’s national newspapers. Fusion GPS, however, was hired to spike these stories. Even though it was clearly acting as a public relations counsel on behalf of a foreign principal, Fusion GPS never registered under FARA and was able to engage in nefarious activities without public scrutiny.”

Echoing the testimony he gave to Congress, Halvorssen told me on the phone this week that as media fixers Fusion GPS’s method is to sow doubt in the minds of reporters who are investigating stories about their clients. “They come in and say, ‘I’m telling you the truth, you’ve known me from the Wall Street Journal for twenty years, I’m respectable. They trade on their past reputation and that’s what they’re selling to their overseas clients, the ones with criminal problems.”

According to Halvorssen, Fusion GPS also resorted to much more aggressive tactics in defending Derwick Associates. As Halvorssen writes in his testimony: “Mr. Fritsch sent Mr. De Cordoba a dossier containing false and derogatory information about me and about the other whistleblowers who have drawn attention to Derwick. … Fusion GPS was responsible for the defamation campaign.”

“They placed false accusations that I was a heroin addict, a pedophile, and guilty of embezzlement,” Halvorssen told me. “They could have done something about me that was plausible, like attacked the Human Rights Foundation, the Oslo Freedom Forum”—organizations Halvorssen runs—or some run-of-the-mill shortcoming. But their point is to make the accusations so appalling that there can be no defense. The point is to make you radioactive. And what’s interesting is that it was the same pattern of accusations against multiple people.”

Boyd claims that he was also targeted in a social media campaign that described him as a drug trafficker, extortionist, car thief, and pedophile. Here is a sample screen grab taken from websites with articles targeting Boyd:

http://www.tabletmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/loactual.png

His home in London, where he now lives, was broken into and his computer was stolen, according to London police reports, although the culprits have not been identified. Photographs of his young daughters, taken with a telephoto lens, were put in his raincoat. He also received an anonymous note threatening his daughters with sexual abuse.

“I think Fusion GPS played a key role in the campaign against me,” Boyd believes. “Derwick doesn’t understand how media works. Fusion GPS was there to lead them and explain it to them. Because of their background, they have an impressive array of contacts they can rely on to discredit someone—‘You don’t want to listen to that guy, he has a criminal past, he’s a pedophile.’ ”

When asked to comment on Boyd and Halvorssen’s charges, Fusion GPS sent a statement to Tablet. “Fusion GPS did not launch a defamation campaign against Thor Halvorssen or Alek Boyd. Halvorssen’s statement is filled with inaccuracies and falsehoods. The only verified defamation campaign is the one being pursued against Fusion GPS. The president and his allies have tried to smear anyone who has tried to investigate Trump’s Russia ties.”

However, both Boyd and Halvorssen’s investigations of Derwick Associates predated Donald Trump’s presence on the American political scene by several years. It is difficult to understand how the “dirty tricks” and defamation campaigns waged against them have anything to do with Trump. The same goes for Bill Browder—one of the main forces behind the Magnitzky Act, passed in 2012, which sanctions Russian figures involved in the detention and 2009 death of Browder’s late lawyer Sergei Magnitzky. Browder says he was similarly targeted by Fusion GPS.

In his testimony yesterday before the Senate Judiciary Committe, Browder argued that Fusion GPS had waged a smear campaign against him and Magnitsky. Glenn Simpson, said Browder, “contacted a number of major newspapers and other publications to spread false information that Sergei Magnitsky was not murdered, was not a whistle-blower, and was instead a criminal. They also spread false information that my presentations to lawmakers around the world were untrue.”

As Halvorssen testified before Congress, Fusion sometimes outsources its smear campaigns. Halvorssen told me that “Kenneth Silverstein was attacking me on behalf of Fusion GPS in fringe websites as well as across social media.” (Here’s an article Silverstein published in 2015 about Halvorssen.) According to Halvorssen, Silverstein made the same accusations that Derwick Associates had, based on the same dossier and false accusations Fusion GPS was behind. “They used Silverstein to launder and place the information. He was at one point in the past a respected journalist with a serious career, so it gave the impression of being somewhat legitimate coming from him.”

When I contacted Silverstein for comment, he contested Halvorssen’s account. “It’s a complete fabrication,” Silverstein said. “No one at Fusion GPS ever gave me a file about Thor Halvorssen or any information about him. No one at Fusion ever asked me to write about him or anything having to do with Venezuela.”

Silverstein, believes Halvorssen, likely played a role similar to Christopher Steele’s as author of the Russia dossier on Trump. “Chances are that Steele had only partial responsibility. They could be just using his reputation as a former British intelligence officer to legitimize a smear campaign. There’s nothing Fusion GPS isn’t willing to do for money. They work for agents of the Kremlin, after all.”

It’s one of the peculiar paradoxes of the media today that the firm that sparked the anti-Trump resistance, and fueled the patriotism of those newly awakened to the dangers of Russian interference in American political institutions is working with companies intimately linked with Moscow. Fusion GPS is working to undo the U.S. sanctions on Russia implemented by the Magnitzky Act, and has been networked into Gazprom’s investment in Venezuela’s energy sector alongside Derwick Associates. And yet the U.S. media is focused on the Great Kremlin Conspiracy, the fruit of what appears to be only one in a series of smear campaigns waged by Fusion GPS. Sure, the reasons are partly ideological—Trump is not the press’ preferred candidate. And financial—the daily campaign against Trump is driving traffic that print and broadcast haven’t seen in a long time.

The press has its hands tied. “If they report that the Russia dossier is probably nonsense,” said Halvorssen, “and Fusion GPS is running information operations across the media, then that calls into question all the other stories that Fusion GPS has fed journalists in the past. Why are so few journalists willing to look into Fusion GPS?”

In order to report honestly on the Trump scandals, a weakened press would have to report honestly on Fusion GPS—which would mean lifting the lid on the incompetence and malfeasance of their own institutions and colleagues, which would reveal a scandal as threatening to democracy as anything Trump has said or done. “Imagine if they subpoena Fusion GPS’s emails,” said a veteran Washington reporter, “there are going to be lots of journalists in there who’ve taken stories from them. Big names, senior figures in the field. It will look like an apocalypse.”

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/241812/news-for-hire-scandal-deepens-gps-fusion-sleazy-venezuela-links-shed-new-light-on-trump-dossier

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/theater-and-dance/242196/paula-vogels-indecent-liberalism

[TSA]

Didn't stop Trump from making up a story about it, and passing that on to state-run media for you to parrot though, did it?

:lol you should probably listen to the Wheeler audio that completely shits on that fake news story you swallowed up. Trump didn't make up any story about Seth Rich and Trump didn't pass that made up story to Fox news.

[TSA]

Not good enough. Not going to sit through moar YouTubes until you flesh this thing out.




As for Hersh -- well, he has been pretty hit or miss since Vietnam. I can't take his theory as a lock either.

:lol fine I'll listen to it

[TSA]

No, actually the police said it was likely a botched robbery.





http://www.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-fi-ct-seth-rich-conspiracy-20170523-htmlstory.html

I would reccomend you to read this as it has the backing of the actual police involve in the case saying it was a botched robbery but also the parents.

I'm gonna go ahead and go with the experts and the people who's seeing the body on this one instead of the 4channity-esque theory you are coming up with.

The police saying it was a botched robbery does not make it a botched robbery. What his parents think means nothing either. Have the police caught the killer yes or no?

[TSA]

LOL thinking I'm going to waste my time on this garbage. You have no case.

I wonder though, if there is evidence that there was this massive unmasking operation going on and it's already a known fact to authorities that Obama and his minions did this, why are they still allow to wallk free?

Ummm.

You are being lazy. I will help you out. You name the sources you will accept and I will provide the links.

In the meantime...

During the Obama administration was Trump's team under surveillance yes or no?
Was Trump's team's unmasked information illegally disseminated to the media yes or no?

[RandomGuy]

You are being lazy. I will help you out. You name the sources you will accept and I will provide the links.

In the meantime...

During the Obama administration was Trump's team under surveillance yes or no?
Was Trump's team's unmasked information illegally disseminated to the media yes or no?

Meanwhile President Pussy-grabber is getting ready to handle something else other than female genitalia:


"We'll handle North Korea. We're going to be able to handle them. It will be handled. We handle everything,"


Don't we all feel so much safer? He is going to handle it.

:rollin :cry

https://i0.wp.com/www.catholics4trump.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/TrumpKovImpers.gif

FUCK WHAT AN IDIOT. :bang

[RandomGuy]

You are being lazy. I will help you out. You name the sources you will accept and I will provide the links.

In the meantime...

During the Obama administration was Trump's team under surveillance yes or no?
Was Trump's team's unmasked information illegally disseminated to the media yes or no?

No.
No.

Easy.

[Reck]

The police saying it was a botched robbery does not make it a botched robbery. What his parents think means nothing either. Have the police caught the killer yes or no?

So what they say doesn't matter. But what you say does. OK then.

[DarrinS]

You would think all those CCTV cameras in the area would catch something.

[RandomGuy]

You would think all those CCTV cameras in the area would catch something.

Yeah, those cameras are tricky things. They capture all sorts of bad behavior.

https://i0.wp.com/www.catholics4trump.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/TrumpKovImpers.gif

[Reck]

You would think all those CCTV cameras in the area would catch something.

Bill forgot to turn them on. Oops.

[spurraider21]

There's no evidence as of now that disproves either theory.
there's also no evidence that disproves that you are a donkey fucker

[Blake]

Trump/Pootin could have, would have done great things.

Lol.

Name some great things they coulda woulda done

[spurraider21]

Yeah, those cameras are tricky things. They capture all sorts of bad behavior.

https://i0.wp.com/www.catholics4trump.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/TrumpKovImpers.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsaB3ynIZH4

[TSA]

No.
No.

Easy.

Wrong.
Wrong.

Easy.

[TSA]

Yeah, those cameras are tricky things. They capture all sorts of bad behavior.

https://i0.wp.com/www.catholics4trump.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/TrumpKovImpers.gif

Up next...RG posts JK Rowling video of Trump dissing the little disabled boy in the wheelchair.

[Pavlov]

:lol fine I'll listen to itGot to a place I could.

Sounds like a fake FBI source made up by whoever made the recordings of both. Probably that money guy.

Is there anything else to your theory at all?

[Pavlov]

During the Obama administration was Trump's team under surveillance yes or no?The team trying to collude with Russia? :lol Yes, the Trump team that had multiple secret contacts with members of the Russian government they later lied about including an attempt to use information from the Russian government agents to influence the 2016 election were indeed under some sort of surveillance. That could simply mean they were caught on tape contacting the Russians who were already under surveillance.


Was Trump's team's unmasked information illegally disseminated to the media yes or no?Show me the law. I could answer better then.

Also, is there anything else to your theory at all?

[Reck]

Wrong.
Wrong.

Easy.

You live in your own little island. That's cute.

[RandomGuy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsaB3ynIZH4



I have no idea who this reporter, Serge Kovalski [sic], is, what he looks like or his level of intelligence. I don’t know if he is J.J. Watt or Muhammad Ali in his prime or somebody of less athletic or physical ability. Despite having one of the all-time great memories, I certainly do not remember him.

I merely mimicked what I thought would be a flustered reporter trying to get out of a statement he made long ago. If Mr. Kovaleski is handicapped, I would not know because I do not know what he looks like. If I did know, I would definitely not say anything about his appearance.

Trump’s claims to non-memory were widely considered to be disingenuous, as Kovaleski had covered Trump extensively while working for the Daily News from 1987 to 1993 and had interviewed and talked to the business magnate numerous times during that period:

http://www.snopes.com/2016/07/28/donald-trump-criticized-for-mocking-disabled-reporter/


Trump said he didn't.

Given Trump's track record, that should be enough to be highly skeptical of that claim.

On balance it is pretty obvious if you watch the entire clip, what the intent was. The hand gesture was not accidental.

[RandomGuy]

Up next...RG posts JK Rowling video of Trump dissing the little disabled boy in the wheelchair.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

[Pavlov]

So TSA has been railing for months about Fusion GPS and their planted media stories because he has been told to, AND he is championing a story planted by Ed Butkowski in conjunction with Fox News and apparently Trump himself that even Fox couldn't stand behind. Because he has been told to.

[RandomGuy]

So TSA has been railing for months about Fusion GPS and their planted media stories because he has been told to, AND he is championing a story planted by Ed Butkowski in conjunction with Fox News and apparently Trump himself that even Fox couldn't stand behind. Because he has been told to.

Don't look for him to admit he got suckered.

[TSA]

Got to a place I could.

Sounds like a fake FBI source made up by whoever made the recordings of both. Probably that money guy.

Is there anything else to your theory at all?

I've given you my theory. Ask ten more times and see if it changes.

[TSA]

So TSA has been railing for months about Fusion GPS and their planted media stories because he has been told to, AND he is championing a story planted by Ed Butkowski in conjunction with Fox News and apparently Trump himself that even Fox couldn't stand behind. Because he has been told to.

Your timeline is off again.

I don't even understand what you are trying to say about Fusion GPS and I was talking about Seth Rich long before Butkowski and Rod Wheeler were talking about it.

[TSA]

Don't look for him to admit he got suckered.

Noted. This one will come back to bite you in the ass.

[spurraider21]

I have no idea who this reporter, Serge Kovalski [sic], is, what he looks like or his level of intelligence. I don’t know if he is J.J. Watt or Muhammad Ali in his prime or somebody of less athletic or physical ability. Despite having one of the all-time great memories, I certainly do not remember him.

I merely mimicked what I thought would be a flustered reporter trying to get out of a statement he made long ago. If Mr. Kovaleski is handicapped, I would not know because I do not know what he looks like. If I did know, I would definitely not say anything about his appearance.

Trump’s claims to non-memory were widely considered to be disingenuous, as Kovaleski had covered Trump extensively while working for the Daily News from 1987 to 1993 and had interviewed and talked to the business magnate numerous times during that period:

http://www.snopes.com/2016/07/28/donald-trump-criticized-for-mocking-disabled-reporter/


Trump said he didn't.

Given Trump's track record, that should be enough to be highly skeptical of that claim.

On balance it is pretty obvious if you watch the entire clip, what the intent was. The hand gesture was not accidental.
yeah and if you watch the entire clip i showed you, it's a repeated behavior, not one specific to the reporter

[TSA]

The team trying to collude with Russia? :lol Yes, the Trump team that had multiple secret contacts with members of the Russian government they later lied about including an attempt to use information from the Russian government agents to influence the 2016 election were indeed under some sort of surveillance. That could simply mean they were caught on tape contacting the Russians who were already under surveillance. What documents did the FBI use to obtain the FISA warrant after being denied the first time? Who composed said documents and who paid for said documents the FBI used?


Show me the law. I could answer better then.

Also, is there anything else to your theory at all?

I don't need to show you a law that says disseminating information to the media from information gathered from a FISA warrant is illegal, you already know that.

[TSA]

I have no idea who this reporter, Serge Kovalski [sic], is, what he looks like or his level of intelligence. I don’t know if he is J.J. Watt or Muhammad Ali in his prime or somebody of less athletic or physical ability. Despite having one of the all-time great memories, I certainly do not remember him.

I merely mimicked what I thought would be a flustered reporter trying to get out of a statement he made long ago. If Mr. Kovaleski is handicapped, I would not know because I do not know what he looks like. If I did know, I would definitely not say anything about his appearance.

Trump’s claims to non-memory were widely considered to be disingenuous, as Kovaleski had covered Trump extensively while working for the Daily News from 1987 to 1993 and had interviewed and talked to the business magnate numerous times during that period:

http://www.snopes.com/2016/07/28/donald-trump-criticized-for-mocking-disabled-reporter/


Trump said he didn't.

Given Trump's track record, that should be enough to be highly skeptical of that claim.

On balance it is pretty obvious if you watch the entire clip, what the intent was. The hand gesture was not accidental.

:rollin

[TSA]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

did you fall for the JK Rowling video too? :rollin

[Pavlov]

I've given you my theory. Ask ten more times and see if it changes.It will change as soon as someone tells you to change it.


Your timeline is off again.Nope. You won't bother to try to correct me, so don't act like you're right.


I don't even understand what you are trying to say about Fusion GPS and I was talking about Seth Rich long before Butkowski and Rod Wheeler were talking about it.:lol you don't even see Butkowski is doing the same thing your Great Satan Fusion GPS does. This proves you are either easy to fool or hopelessly biased.

[Pavlov]

What documents did the FBI use to obtain the FISA warrant after being denied the first time? Who composed said documents and who paid for said documents the FBI used? Since the dossier was all about suspicious contacts with the Russian government, it looks completely justified at this point -- considering, you know, all the suspicious contacts with the Russian government they ended up tracking.


I don't need to show you a law that says disseminating information to the media from information gathered from a FISA warrant is illegal, you already know that.Still would like to see the law. Thanks in advance.

[TSA]

It will change as soon as someone tells you to change it.

Nope. You won't bother to try to correct me, so don't act like you're right.

:lol you don't even see Butkowski is doing the same thing your Great Satan Fusion GPS does.

Open your ST notebook and pull up when I started discussing Seth Rich and then compare that to when Butkowski started up on it. For someone who claims to have such a great memory your timelines sure get messed up often.

[Pavlov]

Open your ST notebook and pull up when I started discussing Seth Rich and then compare that to when Butkowski started up on it. For someone who claims to have such a great memory your timelines sure get messed up often.You always make it personal when you're flustered.

Of course you were told to pimp the Seth Rich amateur serial killer assassination theory before Butkowski's role was known. You were simply told to believe Butkowski's media plants without reservation. And you have.

[DarrinS]

Putin puppet

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-signs-sweeping-sanctions-bill-targeting-russia-iran-and-north-korea/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab7e&linkId=40491169

[Pavlov]

Putin puppet

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-signs-sweeping-sanctions-bill-targeting-russia-iran-and-north-korea/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab7e&linkId=40491169:lol Like he was going to veto that bill and get crushed in an override vote.

[TSA]

Since the dossier was all about suspicious contacts with the Russian government, it looks completely justified at this point -- considering, you know, all the suspicious contacts with the Russian government they ended up tracking. You failed to answer all three questions. Try again. What documents did the FBI use to obtain the FISA warrant after being denied the first time? Who composed said documents and who paid for said documents the FBI used?


Still would like to see the law. Thanks in advance.Google it? I'm not digging through the US code to prove to you that leaking information to the press from a FISA warrant is illegal.

[TSA]

You always make it personal when you're flustered.

Of course you were told to pimp the Seth Rich amateur serial killer assassination theory before Butkowski's role was known. You were simply told to believe Butkowski's media plants without reservation. And you have.

Timeline is off, recompute.

[TSA]

Putin puppet

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-signs-sweeping-sanctions-bill-targeting-russia-iran-and-north-korea/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab7e&linkId=40491169

Where is RandomGuy and his easily testable theory?

[Pavlov]

You failed to answer all three questions. Try again. What documents did the FBI use to obtain the FISA warrant after being denied the first time? Who composed said documents and who paid for said documents the FBI used?It seems really important to you so go ahead and say what you want to say. I will say what I mean: It turns out that whatever surveillance happened is completely justified by the admitted actions of the Trump team and the people with whom they chose to associate.


Google it? I'm not digging through the US code to prove to you that leaking information to the press from a FISA warrant is illegal.:lol you did that for Hillary -- or were you just told what they were?

And yes, it's your claim so I will wait for you to prove it.

Or you could just come out and give us your grand conspiracy theory you have been told to pimp. It gets pretty boring just watching you relentlessly spread innuendo and not commit to anything. I know you have been royally burned in the past but you don't seem to have learned from it anyway -- so out with it.

[Pavlov]

Timeline is off, recompute.Nope. Give your theory or give up.

[TSA]

Nope. Give your theory or give up.

It's your timeline. You claimed I was simply told to believe Butkowski's media plants without reservation. Your claim falls apart when you look at the dates of my posts and when Butkowski started trying to push his story.

[TSA]

It seems really important to you so go ahead and say what you want to say. I will say what I mean: It turns out that whatever surveillance happened is completely justified by the admitted actions of the Trump team and the people with whom they chose to associate.You failed to answer all three questions, again. Try again, again. What documents did the FBI use to obtain the FISA warrant after being denied the first time? Who composed said documents and who paid for said documents the FBI used?

[RandomGuy]

Where is RandomGuy and his easily testable theory?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2cKi4PwpyRw/Uryl4fUZ9ZI/AAAAAAAAPhE/5tcTAZ5JL7k/s1600/surprise-motherfucker.gif


890701106602487808
Your move, Putin'spet.


But then, predicting what Trump will, or won't do is sort of a mugs game. He never fails to do the stupidest shit possible, just when you think he can't be dumber.

The thing about a good theory though, it that it both explains facts, and you can make testable predictions.

Fact 1:
Russia attempted to hack our electoral process through a multi-pronged attack.

Fact 2:
Donald "look how big my inauguration crowd was" Trump has done nothing but deny this even happened. He has shown no willingness whatsoever to hold Russia to account for anything.

Fact 3:
Donald Trump has a pattern of criticizing anyone, and everyone at the drop of a hat. Allies, enemies, courts, free press, nothing has escaped his remarks and twitter feed, except for ONE/(two) thing(s), and that is Russia/Putin

Fact 4:
Russian efforts appeared designed to support Trump

Fact 5:
Trump directly called on Russia publicly to support his efforts to get elected.

Theory:
Donald Trump has been compromised in some way. Either he directly owes them money, or they have evidence of some kind of him breaking the law or doing something he does not want others to know about.

This theory explains those facts, and is fully consistent with observed reality.

Prediction:
Donald Trump will take no action personally, nor will he criticize Russia or Putin in any way in regards to the Russian attack on our elections. He may allow his underlings to do some minor, inconsequential stuff, and if forced to do anything by Congress will drag his feet, if not outright attempt to veto any sanctions.


The way to falsify the theory:
1) Trump criticizes Putin/Russia (good)
2) Trump orders/takes action that materially harms Russian interests (definitive)

Bullshit conspiracy theories fail very often because either: they cannot be falsified, or they directly conflict with observed reality. This theory can be falsified, and does not conflict with what we know as fact.

Donald Trump is unpredictable except for Russia.

He may be stupid enough to fire Mueller if Mueller starts asking questions that will expose how he has been compromised.

If he does so, he will be impeached. The Republican party will have almost no choice at that point. Congress will find their spine, because they want to be re-elected, and Trump will have gone too far for all but the most jaded hacks.

Here comes the test.

Prediction:
Trump will veto, or actively attempt to undermine the sanctions in any way he can.

Russians have already threatened to retaliate.


resident Trump on Wednesday grudgingly signed legislation toughening sanctions on Russia over its interference in the 2016 election, but ripped into the law and mocked its authors in Congress as he vowed to pursue better relations with Moscow.

The “Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act,” which also imposes punitive measures against Iran and North Korea, had sailed through the House and Senate by near-unanimous, veto-proof margins. At the same time, the legislation had drawn angry criticisms from European allies, notably over concerns it would cripple ongoing energy projects, and from Russia.

In a pair of statements, Trump condemned the law as a “significantly flawed” policy that risks damaging U.S. foreign policy and contains “clearly unconstitutional provisions” that improperly encroach on his presidential powers.
He also signaled he might not enforce it as vigorously as its authors intended.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-signs-flawed-russia-sanctions-rips-congress-161349886.html

[RandomGuy]

Trump's hand was forced by the veto-proof majority, and near-unanimous vote.

He had to sign it in order not to look weak and have his veto over-ridden, but has attempted to undermine it in any way he can, which is to criticize it, and state his intention not to enforce it, insomuch as is in his power.

[RandomGuy]

Trump has also been stymied in his attempts to communicate with Putin directly.

This theory predicts that he will attempt to curry favor with Putin, and let Putin know he is on his side.

This theory explains his 2 hour long official talk with Putin, that was originally scheduled for 30 minutes, as well as his desperate attempt to talk to him without anyone else present at the G20.

http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/170720153419-trump-point-2-large-169.jpg

These actions are consistent with the "compromised" theory.

[Pavlov]

It's your timeline. You claimed I was simply told to believe Butkowski's media plants without reservation. Your claim falls apart when you look at the dates of my posts and when Butkowski started trying to push his story.Timeline:

1) You already were told to pimp amateur serial killer hit theory.

2) You were also told to accept Butkowski without reservation.


You failed to answer all three questions, again. Try again, again. What documents did the FBI use to obtain the FISA warrant after being denied the first time? Who composed said documents and who paid for said documents the FBI used?All these questions are moot to me now that the Trump team's admitted contacts with Russian agents have justified any surveillance. No matter the origin, the concern was and is real.

All this stuff is super important to you however, so tell everyone reading all about it. Commit to something.

[TSA]

Timeline:

1) You already were told to pimp amateur serial killer hit theory.

2) You were also told to accept Butkowski without reservation.:lol "told"


All these questions are moot to me now that the Trump team's admitted contacts with Russian agents have justified any surveillance. No matter the origin, the concern was and is real.

All this stuff is super important to you however, so tell everyone reading all about it. Commit to something.:lol You really really don't want to answer the questions. Where's that cute stonewall picture when you need it.

[TSA]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2cKi4PwpyRw/Uryl4fUZ9ZI/AAAAAAAAPhE/5tcTAZ5JL7k/s1600/surprise-motherfucker.gif





Here comes the test.

Prediction:
Trump will veto, or actively attempt to undermine the sanctions in any way he can.

Russians have already threatened to retaliate.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-signs-flawed-russia-sanctions-rips-congress-161349886.html




2) Trump orders/takes action that materially harms Russian interests (definitive)

[florige]

Meanwhile President Pussy-grabber is getting ready to handle something else other than female genitalia:




Don't we all feel so much safer? He is going to handle it.

:rollin :cry

https://i0.wp.com/www.catholics4trump.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/TrumpKovImpers.gif

FUCK WHAT AN IDIOT. :bang



Yeah like he handled healthcare. This moron is liable to get us all killed.

[Pavlov]

:lol "told" Pretty much. You read something on 4chan or ar15 and it's your position; except when someone asks you directly what your position is.


:lol You really really don't want to answer the questions. Where's that cute stonewall picture when you need it.I told you it's all moot to me at this point so I really don't care anymore. You have to make me care by telling me why it's critically important now. I want to skip the games and see what you're pretending you would eventually get at. Matters of fact I will gladly accept. You really really don't want to say what you really think happened and incessant questions are just another stonewall tactic.

Prove me wrong. Save us another day of this and tell us your grand theory.

[Pavlov]

And there is a big reason Trump signed the sanctions bill -- you can't file a signing statement if you don't sign the bill. In that statement Trump says that he can pretty much ignore many provisions of the bill, which goes right along with RG's theory.

text of signing statement (http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-essential-washington-updates-read-president-trump-s-statement-1501687924-htmlstory.html)

[TSA]

Pretty much. You read something on 4chan or ar15 and it's your position; except when someone asks you directly what your position is.

I told you it's all moot to me at this point so I really don't care anymore. You have to make me care by telling me why it's critically important now. I want to skip the games and see what you're pretending you would eventually get at. Matters of fact I will gladly accept. You really really don't want to say what you really think happened and incessant questions are just another stonewall tactic.

Prove me wrong. Save us another day of this and tell us your grand theory.Dodging the questions is the game for you.

What documents did the FBI use to obtain the FISA warrant after being denied the first time? Who composed said documents and who paid for said documents the FBI used?

Stop playing games and answer the questions and then we can discuss why I think it's critically important.

[rjv]

paul and sanders seemed to be level-headed enough.

[Pavlov]

Dodging the questions is the game for you.

What documents did the FBI use to obtain the FISA warrant after being denied the first time? Who composed said documents and who paid for said documents the FBI used?

Stop playing games and answer the questions and then we can discuss why I think it's critically important.OK, think about what you are saying here.

I don't care about these questions anymore.

You think they are critically important, but will only discuss them if I do care about them enough to jump through your hoops.

You have given me the power to shut down any discussion you want to make about issues critical to you, but about which I no longer care.

OK, since I don't care about that issue anymore, I'm using the power you gave me and I'm shutting you down.
All I have to do is nothing.

Consider yourself shut down.

Edited to add: :lol

[Pavlov]

pWS8Mg-JWSg

[djohn2oo8]

892786015793852416
lol

[TSA]

OK, think about what you are saying here.

I don't care about these questions anymore.

You think they are critically important, but will only discuss them if I do care about them enough to jump through your hoops.

You have given me the power to shut down any discussion you want to make about issues critical to you, but about which I no longer care.

OK, since I don't care about that issue anymore, I'm using the power you gave me and I'm shutting you down.
All I have to do is nothing.

Consider yourself shut down.

Edited to add: :lol

what a little bitch :lol

And I had a nice little gentleman's bet lined up after our discussion for our competing theories.

[DarrinS]

This theory explains his 2 hour long official talk with Putin, that was originally scheduled for 30 minutes, as well as his desperate attempt to talk to him without anyone else present at the G20.


:lol

[Pavlov]

what a little bitch :lolHey, you made it personal again. :lol


And I had a nice little gentleman's bet lined up after our discussion for our competing theories.Hey, you wanted to play yet another game again.

Don't care about your games, so I used the power you gave me to shut you down. Now let the people who want to actually discuss what they actually think about this Trump-Russia business discuss it. You can do so at any time yourself, but you actually have to do it.

[TSA]

Hey, you made it personal again. :lol

Hey, you wanted to play yet another game again.

Don't care about your games, so I used the power you gave me to shut you down. Now let the people who want to actually discuss what they actually think about this Trump-Russia business discuss it. You can do so at any time yourself, but you actually have to do it.

You shut yourself down.

Does this mean I won't have you following me around every day asking for a theory?

[Pavlov]

You shut yourself down. I'm still discussing Trump-Russia in the de facto Trump-Russia thread. You are trying to play games in the Trump-Russia thread. I'm not discussing issues I think are moot without being convinced they aren't moot and I'm not playing your completely unnecessary games.


Does this mean I won't have you following me around every day asking for a theory?If you keep acting like you have one I will ask about it until you stonewall.

I'm all for discussing theories if you actually have them. If you have any desire to discuss your apparent FISA theory you will simply state what that theory is. No games.

[TSA]

I'm still discussing Trump-Russia in the de facto Trump-Russia thread. You are trying to play games in the Trump-Russia thread. I'm not discussing issues I think are moot without being convinced they aren't moot and I'm not playing your completely unnecessary games.

If you keep acting like you have one I will ask about it until you stonewall.

I'm all for discussing theories if you actually have them. If you have any desire to discuss your apparent FISA theory you will simply state what that theory is. No games.

How bout a bet based on our theories?

[Pavlov]

How bout a bet based on our theories?Hey, another game. How utterly predictable.

You can't even bring yourself to say what your theory is without some idiotic game.

How about you just say what your theory is?

[TSA]

Hey, another game. How utterly predictable.

You can't even bring yourself to say what your theory is without some idiotic game.

How about you just say what your theory is?


Another question dodge. A simple yes or no will do.

[Pavlov]

Another question dodge. A simple yes or no will do.I already said no games before you asked to play another game.

How about you just say what your theory is?

[RandomGuy]

[dishonest argument]

Does the president of the United States write laws?

Yes or no.

[TSA]

I already said no games before you asked to play another game.

How about you just say what your theory is?

A bet is not a game. Would you like to discuss the terms of the bet?

[RandomGuy]

:lol

How much will Trump have to pander to Putin, for you to think something is amiss?

What evidence would suffice to show you that he has been compromised?

[TSA]

Does the president of the United States write laws?

Yes or no.

No.

Did you write what I quoted?

Yes or no.

[TSA]

How much will Trump have to pander to Putin, for you to think something is amiss?

What evidence would suffice to show you that he has been compromised?

How about you start with ANY evidence he's been compromised.

[Pavlov]

A bet is not a game.Of course it is.
Would you like to discuss the terms of the bet?No. There is no bet.

No bets.

No games.

How about you just say what your theory is?

[RandomGuy]

For reference:


“Today, I have signed into law H.R. 3364, the “Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act.” While I favor tough measures to punish and deter aggressive and destabilizing behavior by Iran, North Korea, and Russia, this legislation is significantly flawed.

In its haste to pass this legislation, the Congress included a number of clearly unconstitutional provisions. For instance, although I share the policy views of sections 253 and 257, those provisions purport to displace the President’s exclusive constitutional authority to recognize foreign governments, including their territorial bounds, in conflict with the Supreme Court’s recent decision in Zivotofsky v. Kerry.

Additionally, section 216 seeks to grant the Congress the ability to change the law outside the constitutionally required process. The bill prescribes a review period that precludes the President from taking certain actions. Certain provisions in section 216, however, conflict with the Supreme Court’s decision in INS v. Chadha, because they purport to allow the Congress to extend the review period through procedures that do not satisfy the requirements for changing the law under Article I, section 7 of the Constitution. I nevertheless expect to honor the bill’s extended waiting periods to ensure that the Congress will have a full opportunity to avail itself of the bill’s review procedures.

Further, certain provisions, such as sections 254 and 257, purport to direct my subordinates in the executive branch to undertake certain diplomatic initiatives, in contravention of the President’s exclusive constitutional authority to determine the time, scope, and objectives of international negotiations. And other provisions, such as sections 104, 107, 222, 224, 227, 228, and 234, would require me to deny certain individuals entry into the United States, without an exception for the President’s responsibility to receive ambassadors under Article II, section 3 of the Constitution. My Administration will give careful and respectful consideration to the preferences expressed by the Congress in these various provisions and will implement them in a manner consistent with the President’s constitutional authority to conduct foreign relations.

Finally, my Administration particularly expects the Congress to refrain from using this flawed bill to hinder our important work with European allies to resolve the conflict in Ukraine, and from using it to hinder our efforts to address any unintended consequences it may have for American businesses, our friends, or our allies.”

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/text-of-statement-trump-made-while-signing-russian-sanctions-bill-2017-08-02

Basically:

"I will ignore whatever I can get away with, and actively undermine the intention and execution of this bill."

[RandomGuy]

No.

Did you write what I quoted?

Yes or no.

No.

Does the President of the United states write laws? No. Laws are therefore not an action that Trump can undertake.

Donald Trump did not write this law, and actively spoke out against it. He did not take any action to further it's creation.

Donald Trump signed the law.
Trump, although incompetent and bungling, almost certainly knows what a veto-proof majority is. If he had vetoed it, his veto would have been easily over-ridden, making him look weak, something he has stated that he tries never to do.

Donald Trump did what he was forced to do by Congress. Within the scope of the executive, he has already indicated he will not enforce the sanctions vigorously.

Trump is doing what he has to, and has not undertaken any actions on his own initiative that harm Russian interests.

Did I miss anything?

[RandomGuy]

How about you start with ANY evidence he's been compromised.

ANY evidence?

The Steele Dossier is evidence. Not evidence you like, or consider valid, but it is evidence.

Definitive evidence has yet to emerge, because the investigation into what Trump has been doing, and why is not complete. To suggest that evidence has to come before an investigation is both foolish, and dishonest.

Are you suggesting that evidence has to come before an investigation is complete?

[RandomGuy]

How about you start with ANY evidence he's been compromised.


Circumstantial evidence is evidence that relies on an inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact—like a fingerprint at the scene of a crime. By contrast, direct evidence supports the truth of an assertion directly—i.e., without need for any additional evidence or inference.

On its own, circumstantial evidence allows for more than one explanation. Different pieces of circumstantial evidence may be required, so that each corroborates the conclusions drawn from the others. Together, they may more strongly support one particular inference over another. An explanation involving circumstantial evidence becomes more likely once alternative explanations have been ruled out[citation needed].

Circumstantial evidence allows a trier of fact to infer that a fact exists.[1] In criminal law, the inference is made by the trier of fact in order to support the truth of an assertion (of guilt or absence of guilt).

Testimony can be direct evidence or it can be circumstantial. For instance, a witness saying that she saw a defendant stab a victim is providing direct evidence. By contrast, a witness who says that she saw the defendant enter a house, that she heard screaming, and that she saw the defendant leave with a bloody knife gives circumstantial evidence. It is the necessity for inference, and not the obviousness of a conclusion, that determines whether evidence is circumstantial.

SEE FACTS BELOW:


890701106602487808
Your move, Putin'spet.


But then, predicting what Trump will, or won't do is sort of a mugs game. He never fails to do the stupidest shit possible, just when you think he can't be dumber.

The thing about a good theory though, it that it both explains facts, and you can make testable predictions.

Fact 1:
Russia attempted to hack our electoral process through a multi-pronged attack.

Fact 2:
Donald "look how big my inauguration crowd was" Trump has done nothing but deny this even happened. He has shown no willingness whatsoever to hold Russia to account for anything.

Fact 3:
Donald Trump has a pattern of criticizing anyone, and everyone at the drop of a hat. Allies, enemies, courts, free press, nothing has escaped his remarks and twitter feed, except for ONE/(two) thing(s), and that is Russia/Putin

Fact 4:
Russian efforts appeared designed to support Trump

Fact 5:
Trump directly called on Russia publicly to support his efforts to get elected.

Fact 6:
Donald Trump has gone out of his way to meet and talk with Putin privately in person, with no American witnesses. This is the only leader with which he has acted in this manner.

Theory:
Donald Trump has been compromised in some way. Either he directly owes them money, or they have evidence of some kind of him breaking the law or doing something he does not want others to know about.

This theory explains those facts, and is fully consistent with observed reality.

Prediction:
Donald Trump will take no action personally, nor will he criticize Russia or Putin in any way in regards to the Russian attack on our elections. He may allow his underlings to do some minor, inconsequential stuff, and if forced to do anything by Congress will drag his feet, if not outright attempt to veto any sanctions.


The way to falsify the theory:
1) Trump criticizes Putin/Russia (good)
2) Trump orders/takes action that materially harms Russian interests (definitive)

Bullshit conspiracy theories fail very often because either: they cannot be falsified, or they directly conflict with observed reality. This theory can be falsified, and does not conflict with what we know as fact.

Donald Trump is unpredictable except for Russia.

He may be stupid enough to fire Mueller if Mueller starts asking questions that will expose how he has been compromised.

If he does so, he will be impeached. The Republican party will have almost no choice at that point. Congress will find their spine, because they want to be re-elected, and Trump will have gone too far for all but the most jaded hacks.

Here comes the test.

Prediction:
Trump will veto, or actively attempt to undermine the sanctions in any way he can.

Russians have already threatened to retaliate.


resident Trump on Wednesday grudgingly signed legislation toughening sanctions on Russia over its interference in the 2016 election, but ripped into the law and mocked its authors in Congress as he vowed to pursue better relations with Moscow.

The “Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act,” which also imposes punitive measures against Iran and North Korea, had sailed through the House and Senate by near-unanimous, veto-proof margins. At the same time, the legislation had drawn angry criticisms from European allies, notably over concerns it would cripple ongoing energy projects, and from Russia.

In a pair of statements, Trump condemned the law as a “significantly flawed” policy that risks damaging U.S. foreign policy and contains “clearly unconstitutional provisions” that improperly encroach on his presidential powers.
He also signaled he might not enforce it as vigorously as its authors intended.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-signs-flawed-russia-sanctions-rips-congress-161349886.html

[RandomGuy]

The facts and circumstantial evidence have not changed.

Donald Trump has yet to criticize Putin in any meaningful way, to my knowledge.


So we are left with:

Fact 1:
Russia attempted to hack our electoral process through a multi-pronged attack.

Fact 2:
Donald "look how big my inauguration crowd was" Trump has done nothing but deny this even happened. He has shown no willingness whatsoever to hold Russia to account for anything.

Fact 3:
Donald Trump has a pattern of criticizing anyone, and everyone at the drop of a hat. Allies, enemies, courts, free press, nothing has escaped his remarks and twitter feed, except for ONE/(two) thing(s), and that is Russia/Putin

Fact 4:
Russian efforts appeared designed to support Trump

Fact 5:
Trump directly called on Russia publicly to support his efforts to get elected.


We can now add further:

Fact 6:
Donald Trump has gone out of his way to meet and talk with Putin privately in person, with no American witnesses. This is the only leader with which he has acted in this manner.

[Blake]

A bet is not a game.

Ruh roh shit got real

[RandomGuy]

How about you start with ANY evidence he's been compromised.

How about you show any evidence that Donald Trump has criticized Vladimir Putin in any meaningful way, or undertaken any action on his own initiative that has harmed Russian interests.

Prove that Donald Trump is putting the interests of the United States of America ahead of those of Russia.

(Edit)

Because I am oooh so helpful:

This can be done by showing any action where our interests conflict, and he has undertaken to put American interests first.

One such place is in Syria. We are supporting anti-Assad rebels. Russia supports Assad.

What action did Donald Trump undertake to support those rebels?

[RandomGuy]

I already said no games before you asked to play another game.

How about you just say what your theory is?

This is a sure-fire way to identify bullshit conspiracy theories.
Works with 9-11 truthers.

Works with asshats who think evolution is a lie

Works with moon landing deniers.

The overall pattern is pretty clear. If you can't state a specific, testable theory, you are not being honest.

Cosmored, NBADan, Parker2112, PopTech, all failed on this. Wild Cobra runs the f*** away from it, when you ask him to explain how exactly all the worlds climate scientists are "in on it".

I think at some level, they know what they are saying is bullshit, but don't want to admit it, least of all to themselves.

(edit)
I have shamelessly borrowed this bit in RL, and have found it useful in improving my own thinking. Thanks.

[RandomGuy]

..

[boutons_deux]

Trump Is Now Personally Implicated in a Coverup—Although We Still Can't Be Sure What He's Hiding

He is in

so far over his head with this job, and

so lacking in both temperament and knowledge,

that there was always the chance that he simply stumbled into this coverup without really understanding the stakes.

But the latest blockbuster Washington Post story (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-dictated-sons-misleading-statement-on-meeting-with-russian-lawyer/2017/07/31/04c94f96-73ae-11e7-8f39-eeb7d3a2d304_story.html?tid=pm_politics_pop&utm_term=.088e5eeafc18) about the president’s personal involvement in crafting Donald Trump Jr.’s statement to the press regarding the now-famous meeting in June 2016 — the one with a lawyer advertised as an emissary of the Russian government, to talk about its program to help Trump defeat Hillary Clinton —

makes it impossible for anyone to maintain that he didn’t understand how deeply his campaign was implicated.

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/trump-now-personally-implicated-coverup-although-we-still-cant-be-sure-what-hes

[Pavlov]

This is a sure-fire way to identify bullshit conspiracy theories.
Works with 9-11 truthers.

Works with asshats who think evolution is a lie

Works with moon landing deniers.

The overall pattern is pretty clear. If you can't state a specific, testable theory, you are not being honest.

Cosmored, NBADan, Parker2112, PopTech, all failed on this. Wild Cobra runs the f*** away from it, when you ask him to explain how exactly all the worlds climate scientists are "in on it".

I think at some level, they know what they are saying is bullshit, but don't want to admit it, least of all to themselves.

(edit)
I have shamelessly borrowed this bit in RL, and have found it useful in improving my own thinking. Thanks.:lol no problem. Thank you for being me and letting me congratulate myself on this message board.

I don't understand what people think they are getting away with when they do this. I obviously have no problem saying what I think happened and, since I'm not an expert on any of this and more than likely don't have all the information, I could be proved wrong and could be convinced of something else. That's what happens on discussion boards.

[TSA]

ANY evidence?

The Steele Dossier is evidence. Not evidence you like, or consider valid, but it is evidence.

Definitive evidence has yet to emerge, because the investigation into what Trump has been doing, and why is not complete. To suggest that evidence has to come before an investigation is both foolish, and dishonest.

Are you suggesting that evidence has to come before an investigation is complete?
The Steele dossier is a very important piece of evidence, just not the evidence you are hoping for. The Steele dossier ties the DNC to Fusion GPS, which ties the DNC to hired Russian agents. I don't think special counsel Mueller is working on what you think he's working on, quite the opposite.

Chumpdumper is a little bitch that doesn't like to put his takes on the line, how about you and I make a friendly avatar bet. Winner chooses losers avatar, you determine the length of the terms.

I win if anyone from the Obama administration/DNC or tied to the DNC is indicted by Mueller's investigation.
You win if anyone from Trump's team or tied to his team is indicted by Mueller's investigation.

Bonus bet if you so choose: 2x the length of the terms if Wasserman Schultz is indicted for her actions while at the DNC

[Pavlov]

:lol another game.

[Trill Clinton]

Damn

892827757511663616

892830167504224256

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't know why you go in the same circles. The only thing I find interesting is if TSA is a part of one of the trolling farms or just a random moron troll. That is not very interesting either.

He is like Kelly Anne Conway if she was petty, childish, stupid, and lacked self control. Why entertain that?

[TSA]

Can someone quote Lumpkins I don't have scripts on

[boutons_deux]

With No Cameras Or Media Present, Trump Hides While Signing Russia Sanctions Bill

Other presidents would have made sure to sign the Russia sanctions bill in front of the media to send a clear message that Russian election would not be tolerated, but Trump chose to sign the bill with no formal announcement or media present to keep the whole thing quiet.

http://www.politicususa.com/2017/08/02/cameras-media-present-trump-hides-signing-russia-sanctions-bill.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+politicususa%2FfJAl+%28Politi cus+USA+%29

Trash signalling to his $100Ms-dirty-money benefactor and BFF Vlad that he was forced to sign in spite of deep love and respect for Vlad.

iow, "Please understand, dear Vladdy, nothing personal, xxx ooo, Donny"

[TSA]

:lol another game.

You have 100,000+ posts of playing the same game, I was somewhat shocked you passed on something new.

[Pavlov]

Damn

892830167504224256det word choice.

https://media.tenor.com/images/8e393af53c26b6f4f965f847a0b066df/tenor.gif

[Pavlov]

You have 100,000+ posts of playing the same game, I was somewhat shocked you passed on something new.Well, you can see the post count goes up when I have to ask someone what he really thinks over and over again and he never actually says what he really thinks.

Maybe you could just say what you really think and save the repetition.

[TSA]

Well, you can see the post count goes up when I have to ask someone what he really thinks over and over again and he never actually says what he really thinks.

Maybe you could just say what you really think and save the repetition.

You seem to be the only one here that runs into this sort of problem.

[RandomGuy]

The Steele dossier is a very important piece of evidence, just not the evidence you are hoping for. The Steele dossier ties the DNC to Fusion GPS, which ties the DNC to hired Russian agents. I don't think special counsel Mueller is working on what you think he's working on, quite the opposite.

Chumpdumper is a little bitch that doesn't like to put his takes on the line, how about you and I make a friendly avatar bet. Winner chooses losers avatar, you determine the length of the terms.

I win if anyone from the Obama administration/DNC or tied to the DNC is indicted by Mueller's investigation.
You win if anyone from Trump's team or tied to his team is indicted by Mueller's investigation.

Bonus bet if you so choose: 2x the length of the terms if Wasserman Schultz is indicted for her actions while at the DNC

The only time I ever really play games with predictions was when I volunteered for a DARPA study on crowd predictions. I was pretty good, and would have finished in the top ten out of a few thousand, if I had it not been for one of my predictions that went way south when something happened and I didn't update it.

Your theory on what Mueller is working on will be borne out, or not with time. I think you are way wrong, and will make fun of you with great glee if it doesn't pan out.

I generally do not gamble. I have been in one casino in my life, played ONE hand of blackjack, won it, and had a steak dinner, with the intention to never go in one again, unless it is for a show.

I guess if you are set on it, I don't mind putting "TSA is the greatest, smartest, most capable poster of all time on ST, whose critical thinking skills are above reproach" in my siggy, right at the top.

[TSA]

The Steele dossier is a very important piece of evidence, just not the evidence you are hoping for. The Steele dossier ties the DNC to Fusion GPS, which ties the DNC to hired Russian agents. I don't think special counsel Mueller is working on what you think he's working on, quite the opposite.

Chumpdumper is a little bitch that doesn't like to put his takes on the line, how about you and I make a friendly avatar bet. Winner chooses losers avatar, you determine the length of the terms.

I win if anyone from the Obama administration/DNC or tied to the DNC is indicted by Mueller's investigation.
You win if anyone from Trump's team or tied to his team is indicted by Mueller's investigation.

Bonus bet if you so choose: 2x the length of the terms if Wasserman Schultz is indicted for her actions while at the DNC

Locked loaded and ready for the bet RandomGuy just waiting for your approval

[Pavlov]

You seem to be the only one here that runs into this sort of problem.I find that few people are all that interested in that question and don't ask it.

I am genuinely interested in what you really think is going on here. You don't seem to be stupid and your conclusion is completely different from mine. I admit my default Occam's Razor reasoning looks pretty lazy, but there is a reason it has such a cool name. I think that someone had to do a lot of work to come to the conclusions you seem to have reached, so yeah -- I'm asking about it and I'm not afraid to ask you about it multiple times. I'm never going to understand your point of view here if you refuse to explain it.

The baffling part is why you refuse.

[RandomGuy]

[changes his avatar to the same picture as RG, but in a different aspect ratio]

This shit is going to get confusing.

[RandomGuy]

I don't know why you go in the same circles. The only thing I find interesting is if TSA is a part of one of the trolling farms or just a random moron troll. That is not very interesting either.

He is like Kelly Anne Conway if she was petty, childish, stupid, and lacked self control. Why entertain that?

TSA posts things that I generally don't run across in my normal information flows, that challenge my underlying operating assumptions.

That is good for me, as well as the opportunity to identify flaws in thinking and reasoning, as with many self-styled "conservative" or libertarian thinkers.

[RandomGuy]

Locked loaded and ready for the bet RandomGuy just waiting for your approval


I win if anyone from the Obama administration/DNC or tied to the DNC is indicted by Mueller's investigation.
You win if anyone from Trump's team or tied to his team is indicted by Mueller's investigation.


Your choices here are a false dichotomy. It is possible that both could occur.

Who wins then?

[TSA]

The only time I ever really play games with predictions was when I volunteered for a DARPA study on crowd predictions. I was pretty good, and would have finished in the top ten out of a few thousand, if I had it not been for one of my predictions that went way south when something happened and I didn't update it.

Your theory on what Mueller is working on will be borne out, or not with time. I think you are way wrong, and will make fun of you with great glee if it doesn't pan out.

I generally do not gamble. I have been in one casino in my life, played ONE hand of blackjack, won it, and had a steak dinner, with the intention to never go in one again, unless it is for a show.

I guess if you are set on it, I don't mind putting "TSA is the greatest, smartest, most capable poster of all time on ST, whose critical thinking skills are above reproach" in my siggy, right at the top.

:tu

[Blake]

You seem to be the only one here that runs into this sort of problem.

No, I run into that same problem with you tbh

[TSA]

Your choices here are a false dichotomy. It is possible that both could occur.

Who wins then?

It would technically be a draw. We would then move on to see if anyone serves jail time. If no one serves jail time we will move on to who is fined the most.

[TSA]

No, I run into that same problem with you tbh

You are Chumplite this should not come as a shock.

[Blake]

You are Chumplite this should not come as a shock.

You don't do logic. It's as simple as that.