Coronavirus is one mutation away from infecting millions

[vy65]

What did Donald do to New York to cause 22,000 deaths?

Why doesn't California have 22000 deaths?

Moving goalposts. I thought this was about impeachment? Now it's a strawman about causing deaths -- something which I never said.

Again, what is the defense?

[vy65]

Now Trump works at the CDC.

Nope, even better. He's its boss.

[DMC]

Noticeably absent in this response is a defense of Trump's coronavirus response.
NY 22K deaths
Texas 600 deaths


Explain the disparity.

You won't because it will show things that you cannot pin on Trump.

You're another TDSer. Just move along.

[ChumpDumper]

NY 22K deaths
Texas 600 deaths


Explain the disparity.

You won't because it will show things that you cannot pin on Trump.

You're another TDSer. Just move along.Has Trump done anything wrong RE: this pandemic.

If yes, what?

[DMC]

Nope, even better. He's its boss.

So he has responsibility for it and that does fall in his lap. He condemned the CDC for lack of testing in early March. Oh but that's just him passing the buck. He should have built the tests himself in his basement.

[ElNono]

There are anecdotes but by and large we are doing what the Dr mentioned. Other countries are doing just the opposite - ignoring the COVID if they have pre-existing conditions. That's a double whammy.

We only started what, maybe a couple weeks ago? A month maybe? If we're still finding cases of mislabeling right now, it means we've not been doing what the good doctor said we needed to do either.

[DMC]

Chirp?

Chirp or Chirp

[DMC]

We only started what, maybe a couple weeks ago? A month maybe? If we're still finding cases of mislabeling right now, it means we've not been doing what the good doctor said we needed to do either.

So you trust South Korea's numbers but not the United States?

She didn't say we needed to do it. She said we are doing it. Death certs are wrong like half the time.

[ChumpDumper]

Chirp.It's never been easier to stop you in your tracks tbh.

[ElNono]

A private military would be 100x more efficient than the one we have. It's just not economically feasible and not a good idea based on transfer of power.

Example: I was stationed on a base that was slotted for closure. The base had prior received permission for a name change. The base closed, but the government still spent the money to change the name of the base on all documents, on the entrances, exits and buildings, and to paint a different color scheme. All this on an abandoned military base. Private companies wouldn't be able to do that.

Define "efficient"? In that they spend less and would be cheaper? sure. On the other hand, you wouldn't have an F-35 or technological superiority. An F-35 would look like an updated F-16 design made up of plastic parts made in China, and sold first to the highest bidder, likely Saudi Arabia and the like.

One only has to look at Boeing to see how this thing works out in the private sector. An industry that has stagnated for decades, bets only on relatively sure things, and fucks up technology upgrades costing people lives. Do we need to put our national security in those hands?

[ChumpDumper]

So you trust South Korea's numbers but not the United States?I think they're likely being underreported to the same degree and not intentionally.

[ElNono]

So you trust South Korea's numbers but not the United States?

She didn't say we needed to do it. She said we are doing it. Death certs are wrong like half the time.

I trust both South Korea numbers and the United States numbers. I have no reason to believe either is intentionally fudging numbers to follow a narrative.

[ElNono]

Which doesn't mean numbers are 100% accurate, there's obviously a margin of error, but not because of nefarious purposes.

[Blake]

A private military would be 100x more efficient than the one we have.

Ass talking

[DarrinS]

I'd rather be in SK or NZ's shoes right about now, wouldn't you?

Not New Zealand. They won't have any herd immunity for a long time.

[DMC]

It's

:lol

[ChumpDumper]

:lol:rollin

[DMC]

I trust both South Korea numbers and the United States numbers. I have no reason to believe either is intentionally fudging numbers to follow a narrative.

But you think COVID deaths are being recorded incorrectly, is that right?

If you think it's happening here, could it also be happening in South Korea?

[ChumpDumper]

But:lol

[DMC]

chirp!!

[Blake]

NY 22K deaths
Texas 600 deaths


Explain the disparity.

You won't because it will show things that you cannot pin on Trump.

You're another TDSer. Just move along.

22600+ deaths in the United States.

Blame local government, never Trump. Never.

[hater]

Ass talking

:lmao a private for profit military being efficient :lmao :lmao

[DMC]

Which doesn't mean numbers are 100% accurate, there's obviously a margin of error, but not because of nefarious purposes.
Intent is beside the point unless we're talking about children - the effect is the same. The degree of accuracy needs to be similar to have any real comparisons.

[ChumpDumper]

22600+ deaths in the United States.

Blame local government, never Trump. Never.Shit, one could argue Trump's failed travel ban gave state and local governments a false sense of security.

Trump declared mission accomplished so why worry?

[DMC]

:lmao a private for profit military being efficient :lmao :lmao

Organizations without competition (government) don't need to be efficient. When you have competition, you have to find ways to come in lower and still be able to deliver. This is why the military takes the lowest bid, but that bid is from private industry. If the military was more efficient they'd make the shit themselves.

[DMC]

22600+ deaths in the United States.

Blame local government, never Trump. Never.

There's that many in New York.

Chumpy himself said it should fall to the local level.

What decisions did Trump make for New York.

:lol thinking Trump is the boss of governors

Go

[Blake]

Organizations without competition (government) don't need to be efficient. When you have competition, you have to find ways to come in lower and still be able to deliver. This is why the military takes the lowest bid, but that bid is from private industry. If the military was more efficient they'd make the shit themselves.

the competition is other countries militaries, genius.

[ChumpDumper]

There's that many in New York.

Chumpy himself said it should fall to the local level.

What decisions did Trump make for New York.

:lol thinking Trump is the boss of governors

GoTrump made the failed travel ban decision that still allowed carriers into the airports.

[Blake]

There's that many in New York.

Chumpy himself said it should fall to the local level.

What decisions did Trump make for New York.

:lol thinking Trump is the boss of governors

Go

Trump hasn't done shit except suggest we look into injecting ourselves with Lysol and sun tan booth lighting. That's the point.

You keep saying it falls to the local levels. Most of us disagree in that every level has some responsibility here.

You also need to make sure you dont give Trump one crumb of credit when things go right here in the near future. Not one.

[baseline bum]

Not New Zealand. They won't have any herd immunity for a long time.

Neither will we unless you want it to run unchecked and have our numbers of dead increase by maybe 10x to 20x. Spanish flu took a year and a half. I'd much rather be in a country that's actually managing it well currently and hopefully get our herd immunity from a vaccine later on. Why would you want to get it now when we don't have any treatment for it and you're just rolling dice with your life and health?

[Spurtacular]

You also need to make sure you dont give Trump one crumb of credit when things go right here in the near future. Not one.

I'm sure he'll take these marching orders from the board cuckold :tu

[DMC]

the competition is other countries militaries, genius.

Typical obtuse response from the forum retard

[Spurtacular]

Typical obtuse response from the forum retard

I went with board cuckold; but I guess they're not mutually exclusive.

[DMC]

Trump hasn't done shit except suggest we look into injecting ourselves with Lysol and sun tan booth lighting. That's the point.

You keep saying it falls to the local levels. Most of us disagree in that every level has some responsibility here.

You also need to make sure you dont give Trump one crumb of credit when things go right here in the near future. Not one.

Yesterday, President Trump declared his intention to stage a resurrection for the U.S. economy – just in time for Easter Sunday. As he spoke, 17 governors across the country had placed their states on total lockdown, and another 11 had imposed such orders on the hardest-hit portions of their states, setting up a potential test of wills between them and the federal government.

Can President Trump order them to change course? The short answer is no, unless he wants to disregard the Constitution. Here are the basics:

The 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, included in the original Bill of Rights, states that “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” As University of Texas law professor Bobby Chesney has recently reminded us, the states are independent entities within our system of federalism, not mere subordinate jurisdictions of the national government. In areas reserved to the states, he says, the federal government “cannot coerce the states into taking actions to suit federal policy preference.”

In particular, states enjoy unchallenged primacy in what constitutional scholars call “police powers”—those involving the health, safety, and well-being of their citizens. In exercising these powers, they may require citizens to do things—such as staying at home or getting tested—that some may resist.

As the federal government responded haltingly to the reality of the COVID-19 pandemic, governors across the country stepped forward to set policies for their states’ schools, businesses, and medical facilities. Many turned out to be credible and effective communicators as well, explaining the challenges they face and providing much-needed clarity for a confused and anxious citizenry. The day-to-day contrast between the leadership of governors, from Andrew Cuomo of New York, a Democrat, to Governor Mike DeWine of Ohio, a Republican, has not been lost on the public. In a recent Monmouth poll while 50% think President Trump is doing a good job handling the crisis, substantially more voters, 72%, think their governor is doing a good job.

If Trump thinks he can move to center stage by ending the crisis before the science says he should, he will find it difficult to do so. No federal statute gives the president the authority to override state decisions. Nor does he possess this inherent authority under Article II of the Constitution. Nor do any other provisions of the Constitution (such as the interstate commerce clause) confer this power on him. If governors choose to disregard his call to reopen their states, their decisions will be final, and the President Trump will have to live with them.

Still, there are powers that only the federal government can exercise. As we have seen, the president can restrict international travel, harden the borders, and invoke national emergency powers such as the Defense Production Act. Without federal leadership, the states will have hard time coordinating their policies on the many aspects of the current pandemic that cross state lines.

The federal government is also the only entity that can address medical supply issues that have already begun to generate a zero-sum competition among the states. It does no good to tell New York’s Governor Andrew Cuomo to procure ventilators and respirator masks on his own if not enough are available to meet his needs, let alone national needs. The president can and should lead a national mobilization of businesses and engineers to improvise solutions to the looming shortage of life-saving equipment.

Achieving effective coordination within the federal government, and between the federal government and the states, may be the toughest job of all. A mass-contagion simulation performed last year by the Department of Health and Human Services was the latest to reveal that the federal government would be unprepared and uncoordinated in responding to the kind of crisis that now threatens to overwhelm us. As far as we know, neither executive departments and agencies nor the legislative branch undertook the necessary reforms. The price we paid for this neglect will be measured in time squandered and lives lost.

Federalism is perhaps the most basic structure of our constitutional order. In the aftermath of the national tragedy that is unfolding, we must searchingly reexamine how this system performed under pressure and what we must change to do better next time.

The countries that have done the best to fight the current pandemic learned lessons from past failures and responded with new organizations and policies. There is no reason whatever to believe that this is the last pandemic that will hit us. We can start by taking a simple and inexpensive step: recreating the unit within the National Security Council that was responsible for planning for pandemics that was disbanded in 2018. With such an organization there will be civil servants who know, from day one, the steps that a president needs to take.

If we fail to undertake the necessary reforms between now and the next one, we will have no one except ourselves to blame for the consequences.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/03/25/trump-or-governors-whos-the-boss/

[ChumpDumper]

Neither will we unless you want it to run unchecked and have our numbers of dead increase by maybe 10x to 20x. Spanish flu took a year and a half. I'd much rather be in a country that's actually managing it well currently and hopefully get our herd immunity from a vaccine later on. Why would you want to get it now when we don't have any treatment for it and you're just rolling dice with your life and health?He's got his powerful zinc lamp ready for insertion at a moment's notice.

[Blake]

Typical obtuse response from the forum retard

It's your claim that everyone is making fun of, not mine.

[baseline bum]

He's got his powerful zinc lamp ready for insertion at a moment's notice.

Especially in San Antonio where we have had only ~1200 cases of COVID infection in Bexar County and yet Nelson Wolf was saying we were already using 20% of our ventilators. I mean that was a scary thing to hear maybe 3-5 days ago in their daily 6:10 press conference. So when we get >6000 cases and we're going to be at 100% capacity and ventilators will be assigned by death panels?

[DMC]

I went with board cuckold; but I guess they're not mutually exclusive.
His personal life aside, he's demonstrated himself to have a low IQ more often than not, but not short on monosyllabic opinion posts.

[DMC]

It's your claim that everyone is making fun of, not mine.

You and hater

Now you're using argument from popularity.

[Blake]

Yesterday, President Trump declared his intention to stage a resurrection for the U.S. economy – just in time for Easter Sunday. As he spoke, 17 governors across the country had placed their states on total lockdown, and another 11 had imposed such orders on the hardest-hit portions of their states, setting up a potential test of wills between them and the federal government.

Can President Trump order them to change course? The short answer is no, unless he wants to disregard the Constitution. Here are the basics:

The 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, included in the original Bill of Rights, states that “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” As University of Texas law professor Bobby Chesney has recently reminded us, the states are independent entities within our system of federalism, not mere subordinate jurisdictions of the national government. In areas reserved to the states, he says, the federal government “cannot coerce the states into taking actions to suit federal policy preference.”

In particular, states enjoy unchallenged primacy in what constitutional scholars call “police powers”—those involving the health, safety, and well-being of their citizens. In exercising these powers, they may require citizens to do things—such as staying at home or getting tested—that some may resist.

As the federal government responded haltingly to the reality of the COVID-19 pandemic, governors across the country stepped forward to set policies for their states’ schools, businesses, and medical facilities. Many turned out to be credible and effective communicators as well, explaining the challenges they face and providing much-needed clarity for a confused and anxious citizenry. The day-to-day contrast between the leadership of governors, from Andrew Cuomo of New York, a Democrat, to Governor Mike DeWine of Ohio, a Republican, has not been lost on the public. In a recent Monmouth poll while 50% think President Trump is doing a good job handling the crisis, substantially more voters, 72%, think their governor is doing a good job.

If Trump thinks he can move to center stage by ending the crisis before the science says he should, he will find it difficult to do so. No federal statute gives the president the authority to override state decisions. Nor does he possess this inherent authority under Article II of the Constitution. Nor do any other provisions of the Constitution (such as the interstate commerce clause) confer this power on him. If governors choose to disregard his call to reopen their states, their decisions will be final, and the President Trump will have to live with them.

Still, there are powers that only the federal government can exercise. As we have seen, the president can restrict international travel, harden the borders, and invoke national emergency powers such as the Defense Production Act. Without federal leadership, the states will have hard time coordinating their policies on the many aspects of the current pandemic that cross state lines.

The federal government is also the only entity that can address medical supply issues that have already begun to generate a zero-sum competition among the states. It does no good to tell New York’s Governor Andrew Cuomo to procure ventilators and respirator masks on his own if not enough are available to meet his needs, let alone national needs. The president can and should lead a national mobilization of businesses and engineers to improvise solutions to the looming shortage of life-saving equipment.

Achieving effective coordination within the federal government, and between the federal government and the states, may be the toughest job of all. A mass-contagion simulation performed last year by the Department of Health and Human Services was the latest to reveal that the federal government would be unprepared and uncoordinated in responding to the kind of crisis that now threatens to overwhelm us. As far as we know, neither executive departments and agencies nor the legislative branch undertook the necessary reforms. The price we paid for this neglect will be measured in time squandered and lives lost.

Federalism is perhaps the most basic structure of our constitutional order. In the aftermath of the national tragedy that is unfolding, we must searchingly reexamine how this system performed under pressure and what we must change to do better next time.

The countries that have done the best to fight the current pandemic learned lessons from past failures and responded with new organizations and policies. There is no reason whatever to believe that this is the last pandemic that will hit us. We can start by taking a simple and inexpensive step: recreating the unit within the National Security Council that was responsible for planning for pandemics that was disbanded in 2018. With such an organization there will be civil servants who know, from day one, the steps that a president needs to take.

If we fail to undertake the necessary reforms between now and the next one, we will have no one except ourselves to blame for the consequences.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/03/25/trump-or-governors-whos-the-boss/

Not one crumb of credit to Trump for any future successes. Not one.

[Blake]

You and hater

Now you're using argument from popularity.

You started with unproven anecdote followed by false truth ad hominem.

[ChumpDumper]

Especially in San Antonio where we have had only ~1200 cases of COVID infection in Bexar County and yet Nelson Wolf was saying we were already using 20% of our ventilators. I mean that was a scary thing to hear maybe 3-5 days ago in their daily 6:10 press conference. So when we get >6000 cases and we're going to be at 100% capacity and ventilators will be assigned by death panels?I don't understand the metrics we're supposed to be using. In Austin we've been running at about 50 new cases a day for the past three weeks. There is absolutely no downward trajectory. Have we just been overachieving this whole time and it was always OK to open at 50 per day? If it gets to a higher level do we back off on the planned openings? What are the goals and limits?

[DarrinS]

Especially in San Antonio where we have had only ~1200 cases of COVID infection in Bexar County and yet Nelson Wolf was saying we were already using 20% of our ventilators. I mean that was a scary thing to hear maybe 3-5 days ago in their daily 6:10 press conference. So when we get >6000 cases and we're going to be at 100% capacity and ventilators will be assigned by death panels?


According to ksat.com, there are currently 16 patients on ventilators.

[DarrinS]

No new cases in my zipcode for several days now.

[DMC]

Not one crumb of credit to Trump for any future successes. Not one.

Clearly lays out the powers of the states vs the federal government.

Keep running, Blake. It's your calling in life.

What about success in November? Eh?

[ChumpDumper]

No new cases in my zipcode for several days now.Mine neither, but south Austin is getting hammerfucked by comparison.

[DarrinS]

I don't understand the metrics we're supposed to be using. In Austin we've been running at about 50 new cases a day for the past three weeks. There is absolutely no downward trajectory. Have we just been overachieving this whole time and it was always OK to open at 50 per day? If it gets to a higher level do we back off on the planned openings? What are the goals and limits?

Here, we got 21 new cases. Zero deaths reported today. At least, not from covid. Some woman shot her two young children, her mother, and then herself.

[hater]

Organizations without competition (government) don't need to be efficient. When you have competition, you have to find ways to come in lower and still be able to deliver. This is why the military takes the lowest bid, but that bid is from private industry. If the military was more efficient they'd make the shit themselves.

military already contracts plenty of private companies and they make it even more inefficient and bloated than what it is

have you heard of the term “burn the money”?

that is used by private contractors widely which means do whatever bullshit you want to burn through this contract money.

thinking that this would not happen in an all private for profit military is childish

[RandomGuy]

:lol sure you did.



Ergo any reason you can just conveniently dismiss as whataboutism you've already preemptively discarded.

Has Cuomo done a good job? (you'll ignore this or point to one comment about "dithering" from weeks back)
What governor has done a good job with it?

Has anyone in the federal government done a good job with it?

Or do you think it's just Trump?


You call anything you disagree with "irrelevant". You don't really deserve an answer.

New York, like other states, waited too long to lockdown, and seems to have gotten hit hard for it.

Trump pissed away an entire month when he could have been urging states to close down and get ready.

Failure of leadership at all levels.

Once the crisis hit Cuomo did everything he could, and really deserves high marks. Organized, competent, good work ethic, listens to science, and accepts responsibility.

Trump is quite the opposite. Disorganized, incompetent, golfs and tweets, listens to conspiracy theories, and does not accept any responsbility.

Yes, Cuomo has done, overall, a good job, with a huge mistake of waiting too long to lock down.

Sorry that doesn't fit into your narrative of Trump worship. TDS on overdrive.

Have another cup of bleach flavored Koolaid.

[Blake]

Clearly lays out the powers of the states vs the federal government.

Keep running, Blake. It's your calling in life.

What about success in November? Eh?

If you read it, the article also talks about the federal government role and how they failed us.

If you're not gonna blame Trump for anything at all here just make sure you don't give him any credit if we get out of this by November. Not one crumb of credit.

[baseline bum]

According to ksat.com, there are currently 16 patients on ventilators.

I hope that number then was 20 on ventilators instead of the 20% on ventilators that Wolf said. Or maybe we only have ~100 ventilators in San Antonio? Hope that's not the case.

[vy65]

NY 22K deaths
Texas 600 deaths


Explain the disparity.

You won't because it will show things that you cannot pin on Trump.

You're another TDSer. Just move along.

Again, noticeably absent is any kind of defense of Trump's coronavirus response.

Jumping in to answer a question with another and then citing TDS is proof positive that there is no defense.

I'm happy to have a substantive conversation. You just want to interject inane non-sequiters to make yourself feel smart, even though you're not.

[DarrinS]

I hope that number then was 20 on ventilators instead of the 20% on ventilators that Wolf said. Or maybe we only have ~100 ventilators in San Antonio? Hope that's not the case.

I would think we'd have more than that, but I honestly don't know.

[DMC]

New York, like other states, waited too long to lockdown, and seems to have gotten hit hard for it.

Followed by


Trump pissed away an entire month when he could have been urging states to close down and get ready.

Notice you didn't fault Cuomo, just New York (as if it's a person). But you called out Trump by name, instead of saying "Federal government".


Failure of leadership at all levels.

Except you're only willing to name one.


Once the crisis hit Cuomo did everything he could, and really deserves high marks. Organized, competent, good work ethic, listens to science, and accepts responsibility.

Yeah he did everything he could... so he's absolved.


Trump is quite the opposite. Disorganized, incompetent, golfs and tweets, listens to conspiracy theories, and does not accept any responsbility.

Trump is in charge of New York.


Yes, Cuomo has done, overall, a good job, with a huge mistake of waiting too long to lock down.

Cuomo and 22.5K deaths = good job with caveat of not actually doing anything


Sorry that doesn't fit into your narrative of Trump worship. TDS on overdrive.

Have another cup of bleach flavored Koolaid.
You just illustrated perfectly the retarded level of bias and TDS on this forum. Kudos.

[vy65]

So he has responsibility for it and that does fall in his lap. He condemned the CDC for lack of testing in early March. Oh but that's just him passing the buck. He should have built the tests himself in his basement.

Yes that's exactly him passing the buck. Its an agency within his branch of government - he's accountable for it. He doesn't get to condemn them. He has to to answer for them. No one expects him to bust out a science kit, but he's blaming one of the entities he does, in fact, have absolute authority over. If you don't see that as anything other than an unmitigated shirking of responsibility, I don't know what to tell you.

[DMC]

Yes that's exactly him passing the buck. Its an agency within his branch of government - he's accountable for it. He doesn't get to condemn them. He has to to answer for them. No one expects him to bust out a science kit, but he's blaming one of the entities he does, in fact, have absolute authority over. If you don't see that as anything other than an unmitigated shirking of responsibility, I don't know what to tell you.

So his words killed 22K people in New York.

[CosmicCowboy]

Anyone that hopes heat will kill this shit needs to google guyacil ecuador.

[DarrinS]

Mine neither, but south Austin is getting hammerfucked by comparison.

I know some people in Lago Vista. They say there's not many cases up there.

[ElNono]

But you think COVID deaths are being recorded incorrectly, is that right?

If you think it's happening here, could it also be happening in South Korea?

I think it's damn near impossible to have 100% accurate numbers, mostly because of testing availability I would actually argue SK would likely be more accurate than the US simply because they have been much more proactive about testing and had less of a testing problem than the US have.

[ElNono]

Intent is beside the point unless we're talking about children - the effect is the same. The degree of accuracy needs to be similar to have any real comparisons.

No, it's not the same, when you're making your main argument that other countries are making up numbers and the US is not. And you're supporting your argument over that premise.

[DarrinS]

Anyone that hopes heat will kill this shit needs to google guyacil ecuador.


Heat and sunlight kills it. Doesn't mean you can't get it in an enclosed air conditioned space.

Being outside is safer than being at the grocery store.

[vy65]

Yesterday, President Trump declared his intention to stage a resurrection for the U.S. economy – just in time for Easter Sunday. As he spoke, 17 governors across the country had placed their states on total lockdown, and another 11 had imposed such orders on the hardest-hit portions of their states, setting up a potential test of wills between them and the federal government.

Can President Trump order them to change course? The short answer is no, unless he wants to disregard the Constitution. Here are the basics:

The 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, included in the original Bill of Rights, states that “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” As University of Texas law professor Bobby Chesney has recently reminded us, the states are independent entities within our system of federalism, not mere subordinate jurisdictions of the national government. In areas reserved to the states, he says, the federal government “cannot coerce the states into taking actions to suit federal policy preference.”

In particular, states enjoy unchallenged primacy in what constitutional scholars call “police powers”—those involving the health, safety, and well-being of their citizens. In exercising these powers, they may require citizens to do things—such as staying at home or getting tested—that some may resist.

As the federal government responded haltingly to the reality of the COVID-19 pandemic, governors across the country stepped forward to set policies for their states’ schools, businesses, and medical facilities. Many turned out to be credible and effective communicators as well, explaining the challenges they face and providing much-needed clarity for a confused and anxious citizenry. The day-to-day contrast between the leadership of governors, from Andrew Cuomo of New York, a Democrat, to Governor Mike DeWine of Ohio, a Republican, has not been lost on the public. In a recent Monmouth poll while 50% think President Trump is doing a good job handling the crisis, substantially more voters, 72%, think their governor is doing a good job.

If Trump thinks he can move to center stage by ending the crisis before the science says he should, he will find it difficult to do so. No federal statute gives the president the authority to override state decisions. Nor does he possess this inherent authority under Article II of the Constitution. Nor do any other provisions of the Constitution (such as the interstate commerce clause) confer this power on him. If governors choose to disregard his call to reopen their states, their decisions will be final, and the President Trump will have to live with them.

Still, there are powers that only the federal government can exercise. As we have seen, the president can restrict international travel, harden the borders, and invoke national emergency powers such as the Defense Production Act. Without federal leadership, the states will have hard time coordinating their policies on the many aspects of the current pandemic that cross state lines.

The federal government is also the only entity that can address medical supply issues that have already begun to generate a zero-sum competition among the states. It does no good to tell New York’s Governor Andrew Cuomo to procure ventilators and respirator masks on his own if not enough are available to meet his needs, let alone national needs. The president can and should lead a national mobilization of businesses and engineers to improvise solutions to the looming shortage of life-saving equipment.

Achieving effective coordination within the federal government, and between the federal government and the states, may be the toughest job of all. A mass-contagion simulation performed last year by the Department of Health and Human Services was the latest to reveal that the federal government would be unprepared and uncoordinated in responding to the kind of crisis that now threatens to overwhelm us. As far as we know, neither executive departments and agencies nor the legislative branch undertook the necessary reforms. The price we paid for this neglect will be measured in time squandered and lives lost.

Federalism is perhaps the most basic structure of our constitutional order. In the aftermath of the national tragedy that is unfolding, we must searchingly reexamine how this system performed under pressure and what we must change to do better next time.

The countries that have done the best to fight the current pandemic learned lessons from past failures and responded with new organizations and policies. There is no reason whatever to believe that this is the last pandemic that will hit us. We can start by taking a simple and inexpensive step: recreating the unit within the National Security Council that was responsible for planning for pandemics that was disbanded in 2018. With such an organization there will be civil servants who know, from day one, the steps that a president needs to take.

If we fail to undertake the necessary reforms between now and the next one, we will have no one except ourselves to blame for the consequences.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/03/25/trump-or-governors-whos-the-boss/

From the Good Professor Chesney:

Instead, we are contemplating a situation in which the president, or officials at lower levels, might be in position as a practical matter to withhold, modulate or delay various forms of discretionary aid (federal funds, for example, but perhaps other things—including things not directly related to the current crisis), while either expressly or (more likely) implicitly signaling that the state must comply with the president’s policy preferences on the COVID-19 response. Put another way, we are contemplating a situation in which the administration might subtly (or not so subtly) graft a condition onto existing aid mechanisms. To borrow a phrase, it would be a quid pro quo.

In my view, this would be as much a violation of the anti-commandeering principle as the direct-coercion scenarios noted above, and arguably even worse given the lack of public transparency. But it also might be difficult to detect, or at least to prove, that the administration is imposing such a condition. In any event, the long timeline associated with having to litigate such a matter renders the point practically moot. Should the president take this route, the most one can hope for might simply be reliable reporting exposing the coercion and resulting pushback from the public and other government officials.

[vy65]

So his words killed 22K people in New York.

Still noticeably absent from this post is any defense of Trump's coronavirus response.

[ElNono]

Organizations without competition (government) don't need to be efficient. When you have competition, you have to find ways to come in lower and still be able to deliver. This is why the military takes the lowest bid, but that bid is from private industry. If the military was more efficient they'd make the shit themselves.

Normally those organizations serve more than shareholder value though, which is why they're handled by government. The USPS certainly was very efficient and profitable until Congress stripped it of a lot of it's money making abilities, competes with the private sector (here's another canard that falls, BTW, that the private sector can't compete with government-run organizations), but also serves a much wider area that is probably not profitable for the private sector, but still needs to be serviced (ie: Fedex and UPS subcontracting the USPS for last mile service).

I think when there's strictly commercial value, the private sector does work optimally, but whenever you need to serve a purpose that goes outside bean counting, wheels tend to always fall off.

[DarrinS]

Still noticeably absent from this post is any defense of Trump's coronavirus response.

Other than downplaying it initially, and saying a bunch of dumb shit, what part of his response do you take issue with?

[slick'81]

Well we could always move to new zeland or stockholm

[vy65]

Other than downplaying it initially, and saying a bunch of dumb shit, what part of his response do you take issue with?

This is my point. I'm happy to answer this, but I'm asking if Trump supporters think he's doing a good job - and why. No one can give me anything except the question "what do you think he's doing bad?" Do you not see the problem in that?

[ElNono]

Other than downplaying it initially, and saying a bunch of dumb shit, what part of his response do you take issue with?

Off the top of my head:

- Flat out lying about testing availability would be one, and it's pretty severe.
- Also "downplaying it initially" carries a lot of deaths attached to that decision.
- Putting in charge unqualified people like Jared on any type of response capacity is also extremely amateur, harder to measure in number of deaths.
- Complete lack of leadership when it comes to communication and sound decisions. The whole "saying a bunch of dumb shit" also has measurable consequences, like when he compared this to the seasonal flu.

I'm sure I'm missing a bunch.

[ElNono]

I will give him a nod for suddenly realizing that this was very serious. Even if late, it would be much worse if he would still be holding his patently ridiculous position at the start of this.

[Chris]

Why are you dragging this into a discussion where it wasn't mentioned and why did you dissect the quote?

Rhetorical question, I already know the answer (you're a compulsive liar).

:tu

[DarrinS]

This is my point. I'm happy to answer this, but I'm asking if Trump supporters think he's doing a good job - and why. No one can give me anything except the question "what do you think he's doing bad?" Do you not see the problem in that?


My question was pretty specific. Oh well.

In the daily conferences, I'd like to hear much less from him, and more from the experts.

The initial rollout of tests was a mess by the CDC. Seems like things are ramping up quickly now.

The initial guideline to NOT wear masks was a big mistake.

[vy65]

My question was pretty specific. Oh well.

In the daily conferences, I'd like to hear much less from him, and more from the experts.

The initial rollout of tests was a mess by the CDC. Seems like things are ramping up quickly now.

The initial guideline to NOT wear masks was a big mistake.

It was, and I'm happy to talk about the substance. But again, I asked a question - and what I get is a question in response. Why can't Trump supporters tell me if DJT is doing good or bad - and why - on coronavirus? You'd think it'd be simple.

[vy65]

Off the top of my head:

- Flat out lying about testing availability would be one, and it's pretty severe.
- Also "downplaying it initially" carries a lot of deaths attached to that decision.
- Putting in charge unqualified people like Jared on any type of response capacity is also extremely amateur, harder to measure in number of deaths.
- Complete lack of leadership when it comes to communication and sound decisions. The whole "saying a bunch of dumb shit" also has measurable consequences, like when he compared this to the seasonal flu.

I'm sure I'm missing a bunch.

Add to this delays in using the Defense Production Act.
Alex Azar is a perfect example of horrible leadership
I'd also add the refusal to use WHO's test and directing CDC to come up with its own (USA! USA!). That caused considerable delay.
Inject lysol and eat hydorchloroquine
Commandeering state purchases of PPE even though he directed them that they're on their own
Failing to restock certain items in the national stockpile

[leemajors]

Anyone that hopes heat will kill this shit needs to google guyacil ecuador.

Yikes.

[ChumpDumper]

Here, we got 21 new cases. Zero deaths reported today. At least, not from covid. Some woman shot her two young children, her mother, and then herself.You've had some shark teeth but can boast of having a downward trend for a week. We all seem to have capacity for treatment, but what kind of usage are we shooting for and is there really enough PPE to work in that scenario? Just a shit ton of questions that aren't as easily answered as I'd like.

[Blake]

Being outside is safer than being at the grocery store.

Unless Godzilla

[ChumpDumper]

I know some people in Lago Vista. They say there's not many cases up there.Yeah, that might as well be the moon compared to Ben White. My zip is still in single digits a few miles away.

[Spurs Homer]

Forget those tests -

next week: Infrastructure week!

[DarrinS]

Yeah, that might as well be the moon compared to Ben White. My zip is still in single digits a few miles away.

One could argue that areas like that are unlikely to have major problems, since people are more spread out. Similar to where I live.

[ChumpDumper]

One could argue that areas like that are unlikely to have major problems, since people are more spread out. Similar to where I live.All things being equal, probably. Time a gathering or an easing of restrictions wrong and you could have a local outbreak. It might end up being whack-a-mole.

[baseline bum]

Other than downplaying it initially, and saying a bunch of dumb shit, what part of his response do you take issue with?

It's pretty chickenshit how he lied about having mass drive-thru testing in Walmart and Walgreens parking lots. It has been a month and a half, 57,000 are dead, and it's still not here. He still says we don't need more testing to open the country back up, he's obviously not worried about contact tracing. Having states competing with each other for PPE is insane. Not using the WHO tests that have done great in South Korea, holy shit what a fuck-up that was. Showing solidarity with spoiled adults blocking off roads in front of a hospital in Lansing when Michigan is getting completely buttfucked by this virus is unforgivable. Telling the 30% who will follow to him to hell and back that he has heard we'll have a vaccine in two months back in March is sociopathic. Trying to prop up the stock market with lies instead of just telling people what's actually happening with the virus is cowardly and a total abandonment of leadership. Having Mnuchin tell the people they'd have two $1200 checks coming and then only sending one as part of his corporate bailout was a nice bait and switch to a nation of people who can't pay their rent and can't pay their mortgage because Trump didn't care and didn't do anything to slow this virus early on. The execution of his European travel ban was a disaster since it ensured thousands of Americans returning home from the then epicenter of the pandemic were packed together like sardines for hours in our airports. That likely killed many Americans. I take issue with him publicly pushing for cruise ship companies that don't pay US taxes and don't employ Americans to get bailed out. Putting the nation's reopening in the hands of total fuckups like Larry Kudlow, Wilbur Ross, Jared Cuckner, and Ivanka Trump is ridiculous. I don't feel like typing any more.

[slick'81]

All things being equal, probably. Time a gathering or an easing of restrictions wrong and you could have a local outbreak. It might end up being whack-a-mole.


Well know by june

[slick'81]

It's pretty chickenshit how he lied about having mass drive-thru testing in Walmart and Walgreens parking lots. It has been a month and a half, 57,000 are dead, and it's still not here. He still says we don't need more testing to open the country back up, he's obviously not worried about contact tracing. Having states competing with each other for PPE is insane. Not using the WHO tests that have done great in South Korea, holy shit what a fuck-up that was. Showing solidarity with spoiled adults blocking off roads in front of a hospital in Lansing when Michigan is getting completely buttfucked by this virus is unforgivable. Telling the 30% who will follow to him to hell and back that he has heard we'll have a vaccine in two months back in March is sociopathic. Trying to prop up the stock market with lies instead of just telling people what's actually happening with the virus is cowardly and a total abandonment of leadership. Having Mnuchin tell the people they'd have two $1200 checks coming and then only sending one as part of his corporate bailout was a nice bait and switch to a nation of people who can't pay their rent and can't pay their mortgage because Trump didn't care and didn't do anything to slow this virus early on. The execution of his European travel ban was a disaster since it ensured thousands of Americans returning home from the then epicenters of the pandemic were packed together like sardines for hours in our airports. I take issue with him publicly pushing for cruise ship companies that don't pay US taxes and don't employ Americans to get bailed out. Putting the nation's reopening in the hands of total fuckups like Larry Kudlow, Wilbur Ross, Jared Cuckner, and Ivanka Trump is ridiculous. I don't feel like typing any more.


The lack pf leadership is sad af

[pgardn]

Unless Godzilla

Incoming from the Great Bloated Plot.

And its the fckn Japanese that released the monster I'm betting.

[vy65]

It's pretty chickenshit how he lied about having mass drive-thru testing in Walmart and Walgreens parking lots. It has been a month and a half, 57,000 are dead, and it's still not here. He still says we don't need more testing to open the country back up, he's obviously not worried about contact tracing. Having states competing with each other for PPE is insane. Not using the WHO tests that have done great in South Korea, holy shit what a fuck-up that was. Showing solidarity with spoiled adults blocking off roads in front of a hospital in Lansing when Michigan is getting completely buttfucked by this virus is unforgivable. Telling the 30% who will follow to him to hell and back that he has heard we'll have a vaccine in two months back in March is sociopathic. Trying to prop up the stock market with lies instead of just telling people what's actually happening with the virus is cowardly and a total abandonment of leadership. Having Mnuchin tell the people they'd have two $1200 checks coming and then only sending one as part of his corporate bailout was a nice bait and switch to a nation of people who can't pay their rent and can't pay their mortgage because Trump didn't care and didn't do anything to slow this virus early on. The execution of his European travel ban was a disaster since it ensured thousands of Americans returning home from the then epicenter of the pandemic were packed together like sardines for hours in our airports. That likely killed many Americans. I take issue with him publicly pushing for cruise ship companies that don't pay US taxes and don't employ Americans to get bailed out. Putting the nation's reopening in the hands of total fuckups like Larry Kudlow, Wilbur Ross, Jared Cuckner, and Ivanka Trump is ridiculous. I don't feel like typing any more.

Trump supporters act like they can respond to the points you raise with a similarly long paragraph, but they can't. They just ask irrelevant questions directed as establishing some equally irrelevant non-sequiter and punctuate it with TDS! The fact of the matter is that you've described the leadership and government of a failed state.

[vy65]

The National Security Council office responsible for tracking pandemics received intelligence reports in early January predicting the spread of the virus to the United States, and within weeks was raising options like keeping Americans home from work and shutting down cities the size of Chicago. Mr. Trump would avoid such steps until March.

Despite Mr. Trump’s denial weeks later, he was told at the time about a Jan. 29 memo produced by his trade adviser, Peter Navarro, laying out in striking detail the potential risks of a coronavirus pandemic: as many as half a million deaths and trillions of dollars in economic losses.

The health and human services secretary, Alex M. Azar II, directly warned Mr. Trump of the possibility of a pandemic during a call on Jan. 30, the second warning he delivered to the president about the virus in two weeks. The president, who was on Air Force One while traveling for appearances in the Midwest, responded that Mr. Azar was being alarmist.

Mr. Azar publicly announced in February that the government was establishing a “surveillance” system in five American cities to measure the spread of the virus and enable experts to project the next hot spots. It was delayed for weeks. The slow start of that plan, on top of the well-documented failures to develop the nation’s testing capacity, left administration officials with almost no insight into how rapidly the virus was spreading. “We were flying the plane with no instruments,” one official said.

By the third week in February, the administration’s top public health experts concluded they should recommend to Mr. Trump a new approach that would include warning the American people of the risks and urging steps like social distancing and staying home from work. But the White House focused instead on messaging and crucial additional weeks went by before their views were reluctantly accepted by the president — time when the virus spread largely unimpeded.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/11/us/politics/coronavirus-trump-response.html

I've posted this before, but it's a good summary.

Still waiting on the cult's explanation of how dear leader has done a good job?

[baseline bum]

Trump supporters act like they can respond to the points you raise with a similarly long paragraph, but they can't. They just ask irrelevant questions directed as establishing some equally irrelevant non-sequiter and punctuate it with TDS! The fact of the matter is that you've described the leadership and government of a failed state.

It just pisses me off thinking of the myriad of ways he has fucked us and is still fucking us and had to stop.

[vy65]

It just pisses me off thinking of the myriad of ways he has fucked us and is still fucking us and had to stop.

Imagine how ahead of the curve we'd be if he started ramping up production of tests + PPE in January?

[hater]

:lmao :lmao

https://twitter.com/ucantkeepablkm1/status/1254953855600779270?s=21

[ElNono]

It's pretty chickenshit how he lied about having mass drive-thru testing in Walmart and Walgreens parking lots. It has been a month and a half, 57,000 are dead, and it's still not here. He still says we don't need more testing to open the country back up, he's obviously not worried about contact tracing. Having states competing with each other for PPE is insane. Not using the WHO tests that have done great in South Korea, holy shit what a fuck-up that was. Showing solidarity with spoiled adults blocking off roads in front of a hospital in Lansing when Michigan is getting completely buttfucked by this virus is unforgivable. Telling the 30% who will follow to him to hell and back that he has heard we'll have a vaccine in two months back in March is sociopathic. Trying to prop up the stock market with lies instead of just telling people what's actually happening with the virus is cowardly and a total abandonment of leadership. Having Mnuchin tell the people they'd have two $1200 checks coming and then only sending one as part of his corporate bailout was a nice bait and switch to a nation of people who can't pay their rent and can't pay their mortgage because Trump didn't care and didn't do anything to slow this virus early on. The execution of his European travel ban was a disaster since it ensured thousands of Americans returning home from the then epicenter of the pandemic were packed together like sardines for hours in our airports. That likely killed many Americans. I take issue with him publicly pushing for cruise ship companies that don't pay US taxes and don't employ Americans to get bailed out. Putting the nation's reopening in the hands of total fuckups like Larry Kudlow, Wilbur Ross, Jared Cuckner, and Ivanka Trump is ridiculous. I don't feel like typing any more.

Not to mention delaying the checks because he wanted his name printed on them... that's banana republic level...

[baseline bum]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/11/us/politics/coronavirus-trump-response.html

I've posted this before, but it's a good summary.

Still waiting on the cult's explanation of how dear leader has done a good job?

You should see PBS Frontline's tale of two Washingtons and how the Trump administration kept telling the state of Washington how they were overreacting in January and February. Then in the same show you get to see people making homemade PPE for Seattle hospitals. Still can't get over being the richest fucking country on Earth and New York City doctors and nurses were using garbage bags and Yankees' ponchos for PPE when we didn't take action to start making them in January/February like the pandemic playbook left for Trump outlined.

[baseline bum]

https://twitter.com/racheljulie/status/1245114069339852802

[vy65]

You should see PBS Frontline's tale of two Washingtons and how the Trump administration kept telling the state of Washington how they were overreacting in January and February. Then in the same show you get to see people making homemade PPE for Seattle hospitals. Still can't get over being the richest fucking country on Earth and New York City nurses were using garbage bags and Yankees' ponchos for PPE when we didn't take action to start making them in January/February like the pandemic playbook left for Trump outlined.

I'd rather not ...

One of the cherished beliefs held by the cult is that people should be accountable for their actions. All you have to do is look at situations like the one you described, the rising number of dead people, and how shitty the economy is projected to be for 2020Q3 and 2020Q4 to say - dear leader really fucked up and should be accountable for his fuck ups. But that's not what the cult does at all. They spin excuse after excuse. You need look no further than this thread - no one could give me a straight answer. And that's because there isn't one.

[Blake]

https://twitter.com/racheljulie/status/1245114069339852802

Yeah but Cuomo

[ElNono]

Yeah but Cuomo

Cuomo has his own mea culpa to address too... one thing doesn't change the other...

[ElNono]

But you knew what kind of leadership you were going to get from the prez when he said he wasn't responsible for anything... that's what cowards say when the shit hits the fan.

[vy65]

But you knew what kind of leadership you were going to get from the prez when he said he wasn't responsible for anything... that's what cowards say when the shit hits the fan.

Disagree. Look at DMC's post regarding the coronavirus testing plan. Any non-retarded adult would look at that and realize that dear leader is being a bitchmade coward for shirking from the job he was elected to do. Instead he, like the other cultists, see legitimacy in bullshit excuses like the 10th amendment and state police power doctrine.

[ChumpDumper]

Other than downplaying it initially, and saying a bunch of dumb shit, what part of his response do you take issue with?All the others' excellent responses adding to your list aside for a second, think about what you posted (props for that) in the context of a developing pandemic. Time is THE most valuable resource any country has when these things start and makes the difference between the bay area and NYC and the difference between having PPE orders on the way and stealing PPE orders from states you told to find their own shit. No locality or state had the intel or warnings Trump did months and even years in advance generally. This is what the executive branch is for and that's the initial failure that's been cascading through the nation ever since.

And this stupid motherfucker is riffing on treatments during briefings and giving himself excellent grades for his performance. This Nero-level shit is insanity and has to be recognized as such.

[Blake]

Cuomo has his own mea culpa to address too... one thing doesn't change the other...

No only Cuomo no Trump

[pgardn]

vy65 getting down to work...

[monosylab1k]

https://twitter.com/owillis/status/1254793084929531906?s=21

[Winehole23]

Looks like we might have a working vaccine by September...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/27/world/europe/coronavirus-vaccine-update-oxford.htmlVery cool if true. How long does it take to scale one up globally? I imagine that would take some international coordination.

[ElNono]

Very cool if true. How long does it take to scale one up globally? I imagine that would take some international coordination.

manufacturing and distribution does take a while, but as Splits was saying, we would be fairly well ahead of schedule if this pans out.

[DMC]

This is my point. I'm happy to answer this, but I'm asking if Trump supporters think he's doing a good job - and why. No one can give me anything except the question "what do you think he's doing bad?" Do you not see the problem in that?

Sure I see the problem with it. If people are dying, how can anyone say this person is doing a good job instead of asking how you specifically tie deaths to this one person? Why are you echo chamber folks ignoring NY government? Damn near half the deaths are in one state and your spokesperson here says their governor is doing a bang up job.

[vy65]

Sure I see the problem with it. If people are dying, how can anyone say this person is doing a good job instead of asking how you specifically tie deaths to this one person? Why are you echo chamber folks ignoring NY government? Damn near half the deaths are in one state and your spokesperson here says their governor is doing a bang up job.

I get that you wanna deflect because the one gear you got is whataboutism, but are you one those “any bodies” who’d say Trump is doing a bad job? Simple yes or no will do.

[DMC]

No, it's not the same, when you're making your main argument that other countries are making up numbers and the US is not. And you're supporting your argument over that premise.

My argument is that countries like China are flat out lying. Their intent doesn't matter if you're comparing numbers. You don't say "China has only 4K deaths but they're lying... so 4K deaths vs 56K deaths, ya US sucks". I'd discount China altogether.

If some countries are putting everything possible but COV as the cause of death, and the US is putting COV if at all possible, that's a huge discrepancy. Of course that's the extreme, the truth is likely scheme differences, not sure about intent, but I cannot discount there's intent in countries that worship/fear their leaders.

[DMC]

I get that you wanna deflect because the one gear you got is whataboutism, but are you one those “any bodies” who’d say Trump is doing a bad job? Simple yes or no will do.

Are you talking about deaths or just Trump's press conferences? Because if you think it's a reality TV show and you're giving him a thumbs down for personality, that's fine. If you're saying he's responsible for deaths then point out just how, and then you'll have to eventually get to Cuomo, like it or not. I know he's a dem so that pains you but still.

You can ask your boy Chumpy, I don't do yes or no traps.

Is your goal here to sort out posters or discuss the politics of it?

[ChumpDumper]

You can ask your boy Chumpy, I don't do yes or no traps.You do false choices fairly nonstop tho.

[vy65]

Are you talking about deaths or just Trump's press conferences? Because if you think it's a reality TV show and you're giving him a thumbs down for personality, that's fine. If you're saying he's responsible for deaths then point out just how, and then you'll have to eventually get to Cuomo, like it or not. I know he's a dem so that pains you but still.

You can ask your boy Chumpy, I don't do yes or no traps.

Is your goal here to sort out posters or discuss the politics of it?

I’m talking about policy, something you’ve been unable to grasp.

I’ve given several examples of your cult leaders policy failures. Again, something you’ve been unable to grasp.

You can’t give a straightforward answer to direct questions. There’s really not much of a point conversing with you. What’s your goal here? To fail at doing a winehole impression?

[DMC]

Imagine how ahead of the curve we'd be if he started ramping up production of tests + PPE in January?

Imagine if Obama back filled it when he pilfered 100m masks in 2009.

[ChumpDumper]

Imagine if Obama back filled it when he pilfered 100m masks in 2009.DMC accuses black man of stealing medical supplies.

[DMC]

I’m talking about policy, something you’ve been unable to grasp.

I’ve given several examples of your cult leaders policy failures. Again, something you’ve been unable to grasp.

You can’t give a straightforward answer to direct questions. There’s really not much of a point conversing with you. What’s your goal here? To fail at doing a winehole impression?

Do you think Cuomo actually did a good job? Yes or no. Anything else you say is only a deflection.

[vy65]

Imagine if Obama back filled it when he pilfered 100m masks in 2009.

Would’ve been great. But your boy could have saved the day by doing it in 2018 though, right?

[vy65]

Do you think Cuomo actually did a good job? Yes or no. Anything else you say is only a deflection.

I’ve been asking you about trump. You won’t give me a straight answer. Why would I respond to your attempt to deflect by asking me a question you yourself won’t answer?

[ChumpDumper]

I don't do yes or no traps.


Do you think Cuomo actually did a good job? Yes or no. Anything else you say is only a deflection.


:lolDeflectMC

[DMC]

DMC accuses black man of stealing medical supplies.

Clutch your pearls and play the race card. That usually works.

[DMC]

I’ve been asking you about trump. You won’t give me a straight answer. Why would I respond to your attempt to deflect by asking me a question you yourself won’t answer?

Deflection

[DarrinS]

You should see PBS Frontline's tale of two Washingtons and how the Trump administration kept telling the state of Washington how they were overreacting in January and February. Then in the same show you get to see people making homemade PPE for Seattle hospitals. Still can't get over being the richest fucking country on Earth and New York City doctors and nurses were using garbage bags and Yankees' ponchos for PPE when we didn't take action to start making them in January/February like the pandemic playbook left for Trump outlined.


Yeah, I watched that as soon as it came out. I believe I posted the trailer for it.

No doubt that we wasted precious time. No doubt that there were numerous fuck ups and missed opportunities.

[DMC]

The fact of the matter is the left was too busy hoping for removal of Trump from office through January to give 2 shits about the virus, and hindsight is now your best friend.

[vy65]

Deflection

Not at all. I’m happy to discuss your response to my question if you ever stop being a coward and give an answer.

[ChumpDumper]

Clutch your pearls and play the race card. That usually works.You said the black man stole medical supplies. Your words.

[ChumpDumper]

The fact of the matter is the left was too busy hoping for removal of Trump from office through January to give 2 shits about the virus, and hindsight is now your best friend.Another deflection.

[DMC]

Not at all. I’m happy to discuss your response to my question if you ever stop being a coward and give an answer.

:lol people who ignore your bread crumb trail are cowards.

[Blake]

Sure I see the problem with it. If people are dying, how can anyone say this person is doing a good job instead of asking how you specifically tie deaths to this one person? Why are you echo chamber folks ignoring NY government? Damn near half the deaths are in one state and your spokesperson here says their governor is doing a bang up job.

Don't blame Trump chamber

[DMC]

You said the black man stole medical supplies. Your words.

You called him a black man. I called him Obama.

Your words.

[DMC]

obligatory, post Chump echo chamber quip

[Spurminator]

Imagine if Obama back filled it when he pilfered 100m masks in 2009.

Trump should've reversed that Obama policy instead of focusing on stupid bullshit like the Harriet Tubman $20 bill.

[DMC]

Trump should've reversed that Obama policy instead of focusing on stupid bullshit like the Harriet Tubman $20 bill.

You're saying a black woman was stupid bullshit.

[ChumpDumper]

You called him a black man. I called him Obama.

Your words.Obama is a black man.

You said the black man stole medical supplies.

Your words.

[DarrinS]

Imagine how ahead of the curve we'd be if he started ramping up production of tests + PPE in January?

Well, China shared the genetic sequence on Jan. 12, so ramping up tests in January would've been a fuckin miracle.

[Blake]

The fact of the matter is the left was too busy hoping for removal of Trump from office through January to give 2 shits about the virus, and hindsight is now your best friend.

Lol "fact of the matter"

[vy65]

:lol people who ignore your bread crumb trail are cowards.

No, people like you who will continuously respond to my questions with refusals to stand by the courage of their convictions are cowards.

[DMC]

Besides, I've given the Trump admin 30% of the blame for PPE and the Obama admin 70% based on the amount of time neither of them did anything about it.

[ElNono]

My argument is that countries like China are flat out lying. Their intent doesn't matter if you're comparing numbers. You don't say "China has only 4K deaths but they're lying... so 4K deaths vs 56K deaths, ya US sucks". I'd discount China altogether.

If some countries are putting everything possible but COV as the cause of death, and the US is putting COV if at all possible, that's a huge discrepancy. Of course that's the extreme, the truth is likely scheme differences, not sure about intent, but I cannot discount there's intent in countries that worship/fear their leaders.

This was addressed already. Discounting Russia and China, two countries you brought up as potentially (likely if you must) providing misleading numbers, the conclusion is pretty much the same, the US has been overwhelmingly affected by this pandemic, more so than the vast majority of countries.

[DMC]

This was addressed already. Discounting Russia and China, two countries you brought up as potentially (likely if you must) providing misleading numbers, the conclusion is pretty much the same, the US has been overwhelmingly affected by this pandemic, more so than the vast majority of countries.

You've circled back. Go back and read it.

[ElNono]

The fact of the matter is the left was too busy hoping for removal of Trump from office through January to give 2 shits about the virus, and hindsight is now your best friend.

What does that has to do with this administration fumbling the response?

"The fact of the matter is Kobe was too busy killing himself in January to give 2 shits about the virus!"

ok...

[DarrinS]

Obama is a black man.

You said the black man stole medical supplies.

Your words.

Just stop :lol

[Blake]

You're saying a black woman was stupid bullshit.

What a stupid strawman :lol

[ChumpDumper]

Just stop :lolHe's the one using the word pilfered. Never seen him characterize the PPE situation that way with anyone else. Take it up with him.

[ElNono]

You've circled back. Go back and read it.

No I didn't. Your argument was that the whole thing needs to be dismissed because countries (not just China and Russia) aren't providing accurate numbers. I asked you what led you to that conclusion, and here we are.

[DMC]

What does that has to do with this administration fumbling the response?

The House Judiciary Committee on Wednesday voted, 22-10, to terminate President Donald Trump's expanded travel ban and rein in presidential authority to issue such travel restrictions.

Now headed to the House floor, the bill is not expected to clear the Republican-controlled Senate.

The legislation would void all of Trump's executive actions establishing travel restrictions. It would also limit the president's powers under Section 212(f) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, which says the president can suspend entry of foreigners deemed “detrimental to the interests of the United States."

This is what the left was doing in February. Where's the PPE bills?

[vy65]

What does that has to do with this administration fumbling the response?

"The fact of the matter is Kobe was too busy killing himself in January to give 2 shits about the virus!"

ok...

It’s one of the dumbest excuses I’ve yet heard. It’s not like trump had any part in the strategy used by the lawyers at the “trial.”

What he’s saying is that Trump was too busy watching Fox & Friends to begin acting like an actual president for once

[ChumpDumper]

The House Judiciary Committee on Wednesday voted, 22-10, to terminate President Donald Trump's expanded travel ban and rein in presidential authority to issue such travel restrictions.

Now headed to the House floor, the bill is not expected to clear the Republican-controlled Senate.

The legislation would void all of Trump's executive actions establishing travel restrictions. It would also limit the president's powers under Section 212(f) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, which says the president can suspend entry of foreigners deemed “detrimental to the interests of the United States."

This is what the left was doing in February. Where's the PPE bills?When did Trump ask for the money?

[DarrinS]

Man, if drumpf got corona and died, that high-pitched screeching would finally go away.

[ChumpDumper]

Man, if drumpf got corona and died, that high-pitched screeching would finally go away.Sorry your boy turned out to be such a failure, Darrin. You picked exactly the wrong person to lead the country.

[ElNono]

The House Judiciary Committee on Wednesday voted, 22-10, to terminate President Donald Trump's expanded travel ban and rein in presidential authority to issue such travel restrictions.

Now headed to the House floor, the bill is not expected to clear the Republican-controlled Senate.

The legislation would void all of Trump's executive actions establishing travel restrictions. It would also limit the president's powers under Section 212(f) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, which says the president can suspend entry of foreigners deemed “detrimental to the interests of the United States."

This is what the left was doing in February. Where's the PPE bills?

Where's the administration request for a PPE bill? Was this before or after saying it was going to disappear like a miracle?

[DarrinS]

Sorry your boy turned out to be such a failure, Darrin. You picked exactly the wrong person to lead the country.

Didn't vote, tbh.

[ElNono]

You do know the CDC is part of the executive branch, not Congress or the Judiciary, right?

[vy65]

Pretty sure he doesn’t since he was saying Trump was justified in criticizing the CDC

[ChumpDumper]

Didn't vote, tbh.You've supported him the entire way tbh. Really poor choice by you.

[ElNono]

Man, if drumpf got corona and died, that high-pitched screeching would finally go away.

At least he couldn't dodge that one claiming bone spurs.

[DMC]

It’s one of the dumbest excuses I’ve yet heard. It’s not like trump had any part in the strategy used by the lawyers at the “trial.”

What he’s saying is that Trump was too busy watching Fox & Friends to begin acting like an actual president for once

Our rating: True
We rate this claim TRUE because it is supported by our research. There is no indication that the Obama administration took significant steps to replenish the supply of N95 masks in the Strategic National Stockpile after it was depleted from repeated crises. Calls for action came from experts at the time concerned for the country’s ability to respond to future serious pandemics. Such recommendations were, for whatever reason, not heeded.

So I will say the Trump administration is 30% culpable for lack of PPE while the Obama admin is 70% culpable. Those do not fall on state governments as they do not control the national stockpile.

I said this some time ago. Neither admin did a bang up job on PPE.

[Spurs Homer]

It's pretty chickenshit how he lied about having mass drive-thru testing in Walmart and Walgreens parking lots. It has been a month and a half, 57,000 are dead, and it's still not here. He still says we don't need more testing to open the country back up, he's obviously not worried about contact tracing. Having states competing with each other for PPE is insane. Not using the WHO tests that have done great in South Korea, holy shit what a fuck-up that was. Showing solidarity with spoiled adults blocking off roads in front of a hospital in Lansing when Michigan is getting completely buttfucked by this virus is unforgivable. Telling the 30% who will follow to him to hell and back that he has heard we'll have a vaccine in two months back in March is sociopathic. Trying to prop up the stock market with lies instead of just telling people what's actually happening with the virus is cowardly and a total abandonment of leadership. Having Mnuchin tell the people they'd have two $1200 checks coming and then only sending one as part of his corporate bailout was a nice bait and switch to a nation of people who can't pay their rent and can't pay their mortgage because Trump didn't care and didn't do anything to slow this virus early on. The execution of his European travel ban was a disaster since it ensured thousands of Americans returning home from the then epicenter of the pandemic were packed together like sardines for hours in our airports. That likely killed many Americans. I take issue with him publicly pushing for cruise ship companies that don't pay US taxes and don't employ Americans to get bailed out. Putting the nation's reopening in the hands of total fuckups like Larry Kudlow, Wilbur Ross, Jared Cuckner, and Ivanka Trump is ridiculous. I don't feel like typing any more.

too bad you got tired of typing...


you were about a third of the way through the colossal fuckup...

[ElNono]

Pretty sure he doesn’t since he was saying Trump was justified in criticizing the CDC

Even if we were to argue Congress completely botched any kind of action, it doesn't nullify the executive's incompetence.

[vy65]

Our rating: True
We rate this claim TRUE because it is supported by our research. There is no indication that the Obama administration took significant steps to replenish the supply of N95 masks in the Strategic National Stockpile after it was depleted from repeated crises. Calls for action came from experts at the time concerned for the country’s ability to respond to future serious pandemics. Such recommendations were, for whatever reason, not heeded.

So I will say the Trump administration is 30% culpable for lack of PPE while the Obama admin is 70% culpable. Those do not fall on state governments as they do not control the national stockpile.

I said this some time ago. Neither admin did a bang up job on PPE.

Obama fucked up. He should have replenished the stock pile. That doesn’t exonerate your dear leader from
his own fuck up. I get that you wanna die on the Obama hill, but it’s really simple: one presidents fuck ups don’t let the subsequent administration off the hook.

Lol percentages

[DMC]

You do know the CDC is part of the executive branch, not Congress or the Judiciary, right?

The national stockpile falls under the DHHS and Trump fired the director.

[vy65]

Even if we were to argue Congress completely botched any kind of action, it doesn't nullify the executive's incompetence.

Separation of powers don’t matter much to the cult when it can be used to semen shield for dear leader

[DMC]

Obama fucked up. He should have replenished the stock pile. That doesn’t exonerate your dear leader from
his own fuck up. I get that you wanna die on the Obama hill, but it’s really simple: one presidents fuck ups don’t let the subsequent administration off the hook.

Lol percentages

No, Trump isn't exonerated. He's 30% culpable. If I had to issue a jail sentence, I would give Trump 3 years, Obama 7 years.

[ChumpDumper]

Our rating: True
We rate this claim TRUE because it is supported by our research. There is no indication that the Obama administration took significant steps to replenish the supply of N95 masks in the Strategic National Stockpile after it was depleted from repeated crises. Calls for action came from experts at the time concerned for the country’s ability to respond to future serious pandemics. Such recommendations were, for whatever reason, not heeded.

So I will say the Trump administration is 30% culpable for lack of PPE while the Obama admin is 70% culpable. Those do not fall on state governments as they do not control the national stockpile.

I said this some time ago. Neither admin did a bang up job on PPE.
What % responsibility do you give Trump for this?

U.S. intelligence agencies issued warnings about the novel coronavirus in more than a dozen classified briefings prepared for President Trump in January and February, months during which he continued to play down the threat, according to current and former U.S. officials.

The repeated warnings were conveyed in issues of the President’s Daily Brief, a sensitive report that is produced before dawn each day and designed to call the president’s attention to the most significant global developments and security threats.

For weeks, the PDB — as the report is known — traced the virus’s spread around the globe, made clear that China was suppressing information about the contagion’s transmissibility and lethal toll, and raised the prospect of dire political and economic consequences.

But the alarms appear to have failed to register with the president, who routinely skips reading the PDB and has at times shown little patience for even the oral summary he takes two or three times per week, according to the officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss classified material....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/presidents-intelligence-briefing-book-repeatedly-cited-virus-threat/2020/04/27/ca66949a-8885-11ea-ac8a-fe9b8088e101_story.html

90% Black President? 98%?

[vy65]

The national stockpile falls under the DHHS and Trump fired the director.

:lmao

[vy65]

No, Trump isn't exonerated. He's 30% culpable. If I had to issue a jail sentence, I would give Trump 3 years, Obama 7 years.

That’s beyond retarded

[DMC]

Where's the administration request for a PPE bill? Was this before or after saying it was going to disappear like a miracle?

I looked all the way back to 2009 and didn't find a single request.

[vy65]

DMC is right to be looking to Obama to bail us out of this situation since Trump is utterly incapable of doing so

[DMC]

About the Strategic National Stockpile
With approximately 200 federal and contract employees, the Strategic National Stockpile is organized to support any public health threat. Stockpile staff represent a variety of specialties, and all work together to ensure the right resources are ready and can get to the right place at the right time.

Information and Planning Branch
The Information and Planning Branch coordinates preparedness activities for the stockpile and its partners to maintain alternative emergency medical supply chain capabilities. This branch:

Designs and delivers training and exercise support for public health and emergency staff and partners
Maintains day-to-day situational awareness, ensuring the stockpile is ready to respond
Manages the stockpile’s response activities during a public health emergency
Learn more about the history of stockpile responses.

Management and Business Operations Branch
The Management and Business Operations Branch provides operational support. This branch:

Manages quality control of the stockpile’s inventory and IT support of inventory management systems
Maintains fiduciary responsibilities associated with a budget that often exceeds $500 million
Conducts strategic planning, forecasting the five year budget requirements, and management
Executes all internal and external communication on behalf of the division
Oversees policy, legislation and issues management
Operational Logistics Branch
The Operational Logistics Branch is responsible for the stockpile’s inventory of antibiotics, medical supplies, equipment, antidotes, antitoxins, antivirals, vaccines, and other pharmaceuticals that are strategically located throughout the United States and its territories. This branch:

Gets needed medicines and supplies into the stockpile
Makes sure the right amounts and types of medicines and supplies are available to respond to an emergency
Ensures the stockpile can resupply state and local public health agencies in a catastrophic health event
Science Branch
The Science Branch manages the medical, pharmaceutical, and scientific oversight of stockpile products. This branch:

Ensures the scientific review of all medical assets in the stockpile
Takes part in the PHEMCE process, which helps plan which resources the stockpile will need to protect the nation’s health
Serves as subject matter experts on critical medicines and medical supplies (medical countermeasures) necessary in a public health emergency
Strategic Logistics Branch
The Strategic Logistics staff builds relationships between public health and other federal agencies and private partners. This branch:

Coordinates information sharing with states and locals during public health emergencies to determine the most efficient way to approach a response.
Works with partners inside and outside of government to support optimal distribution of medical countermeasures during public health emergencies.
Serves as a point of contact for federal agencies, non-governmental organizations, and commercial partners for stockpile initiatives
​

And no PPE

Just look at that government efficiency. :lol

[ElNono]

The national stockpile falls under the DHHS and Trump fired the director.

Another dept under the executive branch

[ChumpDumper]

About the Strategic National Stockpile
With approximately 200 federal and contract employees, the Strategic National Stockpile is organized to support any public health threat. Stockpile staff represent a variety of specialties, and all work together to ensure the right resources are ready and can get to the right place at the right time.

Information and Planning Branch
The Information and Planning Branch coordinates preparedness activities for the stockpile and its partners to maintain alternative emergency medical supply chain capabilities. This branch:

Designs and delivers training and exercise support for public health and emergency staff and partners
Maintains day-to-day situational awareness, ensuring the stockpile is ready to respond
Manages the stockpile’s response activities during a public health emergency
Learn more about the history of stockpile responses.

Management and Business Operations Branch
The Management and Business Operations Branch provides operational support. This branch:

Manages quality control of the stockpile’s inventory and IT support of inventory management systems
Maintains fiduciary responsibilities associated with a budget that often exceeds $500 million
Conducts strategic planning, forecasting the five year budget requirements, and management
Executes all internal and external communication on behalf of the division
Oversees policy, legislation and issues management
Operational Logistics Branch
The Operational Logistics Branch is responsible for the stockpile’s inventory of antibiotics, medical supplies, equipment, antidotes, antitoxins, antivirals, vaccines, and other pharmaceuticals that are strategically located throughout the United States and its territories. This branch:

Gets needed medicines and supplies into the stockpile
Makes sure the right amounts and types of medicines and supplies are available to respond to an emergency
Ensures the stockpile can resupply state and local public health agencies in a catastrophic health event
Science Branch
The Science Branch manages the medical, pharmaceutical, and scientific oversight of stockpile products. This branch:

Ensures the scientific review of all medical assets in the stockpile
Takes part in the PHEMCE process, which helps plan which resources the stockpile will need to protect the nation’s health
Serves as subject matter experts on critical medicines and medical supplies (medical countermeasures) necessary in a public health emergency
Strategic Logistics Branch
The Strategic Logistics staff builds relationships between public health and other federal agencies and private partners. This branch:

Coordinates information sharing with states and locals during public health emergencies to determine the most efficient way to approach a response.
Works with partners inside and outside of government to support optimal distribution of medical countermeasures during public health emergencies.
Serves as a point of contact for federal agencies, non-governmental organizations, and commercial partners for stockpile initiatives
​

And no PPE

Just look at that government efficiency. :lolThere was PPE.

Just not enough.

Were they supposed to buy it with their own money?

[ElNono]

I looked all the way back to 2009 and didn't find a single request.

Exactly. So how's "the left" in Congress fault's for this?

[DarrinS]

Imagine how ahead of the curve we'd be if he started ramping up production of tests + PPE in January?


Well, China shared the genetic sequence on Jan. 12, so ramping up tests in January would've been a fuckin miracle.



I know this got ignored, but I wonder what our response would've been with more transparency from China?

The WHO tweeted that it wasn't transmitted person to person.

[DMC]

DMC is right to be looking to Obama to bail us out of this situation since Trump is utterly incapable of doing so

70/30.

That's fair. Obviously neither were interested in bailing out anyone except themselves.

The Obamas reportedly just bought a $12 million home on Martha's Vineyard. They're worth 30 times more than when they entered the White House in 2008

[vy65]

I know this got ignored, but I wonder what our response would've been with more transparency from China?

The WHO tweeted that it wasn't transmitted person to person.

Probably a couple pressers on the health benefits of chugging Clorox

[DMC]

I know this got ignored, but I wonder what our response would've been with more transparency from China?

The WHO tweeted that it wasn't transmitted person to person.

You cannot submit sounds to the echo chamber. The echo chamber will request the sounds it wants from you and only accept those sounds.

[ChumpDumper]

70/30.

That's fair. Obviously neither were interested in bailing out anyone except themselves.

The Obamas reportedly just bought a $12 million home on Martha's Vineyard. They're worth 30 times more than when they entered the White House in 2008Black President pilfered that money too right?

[ElNono]

I know this got ignored, but I wonder what our response would've been with more transparency from China?

The WHO tweeted that it wasn't transmitted person to person.

I didn't ignore this, but it's only slightly off, thus why I didn't correct it. First reported case in SK was more or less same as US (tail end of January for SK, start of Feb for US), they were already doing massive testing by the beginning of March, we're still not.

[vy65]

70/30.

That's fair. Obviously neither were interested in bailing out anyone except themselves.

The Obamas reportedly just bought a $12 million home on Martha's Vineyard. They're worth 30 times more than when they entered the White House in 2008

You’re right. Obama did have a fuckton more national security pressers on the emerging coronavirus threat back in 2016

[DMC]

You cannot submit sounds to the echo chamber. The echo chamber will request the sounds it wants from you and only accept those sounds.

See below


Probably a couple pressers on the health benefits of chugging Clorox

You will only get noise out if you don't follow directions.

[ElNono]

Obama certainly had to deal with his own pandemic... don't recall him fucking it up this bad, but then again, it wasn't as severe as this one, IIRC.

[DarrinS]

Imagine how ahead of the curve we'd be if he started ramping up production of tests + PPE in January?


Probably a couple pressers on the health benefits of chugging Clorox



But you want a serious discussion?

[Blake]

70/30.

That's fair. Obviously neither were interested in bailing out anyone except themselves.

The Obamas reportedly just bought a $12 million home on Martha's Vineyard. They're worth 30 times more than when they entered the White House in 2008

Lol "that's fair"

[ElNono]

Then again, Obama has nothing to do with this administration's own fuckups

[DMC]

You’re right. Obama did have a fuckton more national security pressers on the emerging coronavirus threat back in 2016

The national stockpile isn't grown in a month. It had a 3 year backlog. You cannot just order it from Amazon.

[ChumpDumper]

I know this got ignored, but I wonder what our response would've been with more transparency from China?Largely the same since Mayor Vaughn would still be president in this timeline and nothing really happened until the bodies started piling up.


The WHO tweeted that it wasn't transmitted person to person.The passed along the information there wasn't evidence it was transmitted that way. When did they correct that? That has to be part of the narrative now.

[DMC]

Then again, Obama has nothing to do with this administration's own fuckups

Had Obama back filled the PPE, do you think it would have still been there in January?

[vy65]

But you want a serious discussion?

I do. I can make a joke too.

I honestly think Trump still would have done nothing because he staked his re-election on the stock market and would have been too terrified to do anything meaningful. That’s why he said all those retarded things in February.

[vy65]

The national stockpile isn't grown in a month. It had a 3 year backlog. You cannot just order it from Amazon.

2017, 2018, 2019

[ChumpDumper]

The national stockpile isn't grown in a month. It had a 3 year backlog. You cannot just order it from Amazon.When did the first new order for PPE go out for this pandemic?

[vy65]

Then again, Obama has nothing to do with this administration's own fuckups

Apparently they have 70% of the blame

[ChumpDumper]

Obama certainly had to deal with his own pandemic... don't recall him fucking it up this bad, but then again, it wasn't as severe as this one, IIRC.The biggest issue with that was the delay of the vaccine's availability in the fall. I didn't really dig through the causes of that.

[DMC]

2017, 2018, 2019

So Trump should have run on back filling the PPE stockpile?

Yeah that was in the forefront of concerns here too

2009, 2010, 2011,2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016

I gave him a discount for his 1st year.

[Spurminator]

You're saying a black woman was stupid bullshit.

Nope I'm saying reversing the decision to put her on the $20 was stupid petty bullshit, good try though.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol so many deflections

DishonestMC

[Blake]

Apparently they have 70% of the blame

Because of a backlog back to 2017.

Just frantic weird backed into a corner ass talking now

[DMC]

Nope I'm saying reversing the decision to put her on the $20 was stupid petty bullshit, good try though.

It's right there, your words. You said a black woman is stupid bullshit.

[DMC]

:lol so many deflections

DishonestMC

If I called you an astronaut you'd find a way to call me one. You lack creativity.

[midnightpulp]

That's some trickle down philosophy tbh. Then you throw in socialism as a magical snake oil cure we are just afraid of.

That's what it seems to be about, nothing else. Other countries have shown proof-of-concept of the single-payer system, while the American healthcare system is more interested in sickness than in health because there isn't profit in health. Socially funded single payer systems can act more faithfully to the "Do No Harm" concept of medicine while our doctors, beholden to profit, prescribe opiates and SSRIs like candy because that's where the highest margins are. These stats aren't happy accidents.

https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-largest-antidepressant-drug-users-2016-2
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/27/americans-consume-almost-all-of-the-global-opioid-supply.html

Our system is shit. Again, there's no rational argument against universal healthcare anymore because we see it work in ALL first world countries. So yes, it's the "fear" of the socialism boogeyman that is driving resistance to actually reforming our healthcare system into a first world healthcare system.

And for the anti-China crowd. Guess what drove pharma to outsource production of meds there? Hmmm? Profit? You don't see us outsourcing an F35's missile guidance system to China. And it's biting us in the ass where we can't even manufacture our own meds, PPE, and other such medical equipment during a pandemic.

I'll say it again for the 2nd time: Our system is shit.

[vy65]

So Trump should have run on back filling the PPE stockpile?

Yeah that was in the forefront of concerns here too

2009, 2010, 2011,2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016

:lmao No you fucking idiot, no one said that should have been his election platform.

I don’t know what point you’re making here. I’ve said Obama fucked up in not refilling what he used.

That doesn’t let your cult leader off the hook. How do you not understand this?

[Blake]

So Trump should have run on back filling the PPE stockpile?

Yeah that was in the forefront of concerns here too

2009, 2010, 2011,2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016

I gave him a discount for his 1st year.

"Did I say three year backlog? I really meant all the years Obama was in office backlog"

[ChumpDumper]

It's right there, your words. You said a black woman is stupid bullshit.You said a black man stole medical suppiles.

[Spurminator]

Didn't vote, tbh.

This is bullshit, tbh. You absolutely voted and it was for Donald Trump. You hate liberals more than you respect your country.

[DMC]

Because of a backlog back to 2017.

Just frantic weird backed into a corner ass talking now

:lol doesn't understand backlogs.

[Blake]

It's right there, your words. You said a black woman is stupid bullshit.

Your reading comprehension skills are horrible

[ChumpDumper]

If I called you an astronaut you'd find a way to call me one. You lack creativity.You lack honesty.

Why do you feel the need to defend Trump this way?

[DMC]

This is bullshit, tbh. You absolutely voted and it was for Donald Trump. You hate liberals more than you respect your country.

And you like to pretend you weren't up Hillary's coochie.

[Blake]

:lol doesn't understand backlogs.

:lol thinks 3 year backlog means 2009

[DMC]

Your reading comprehension skills are horrible

I am better at some things than you. I won't bring them up.

[DMC]

:lol thinks 3 year backlog means 2009

Never said that.

[Spurminator]

It's right there, your words. You said a black woman is stupid bullshit.

You're slinging shit because you're flailing and it's occurring to you that you've spent two hours tirelessly defending a buffoon. I'm not going to entertain it. Soldier on, Trump lover.

[Spurminator]

And you like to pretend you weren't up Hillary's coochie.

I've never denied voting for Clinton. I'd do it again too.

[ElNono]

Had Obama back filled the PPE, do you think it would have still been there in January?

It wasn't. Let's blame Obama for that. Now, let's talk about this administration being briefed about this back in November, then again in January. Where was the PPE bill?

The US was shipping out millions of masks overseas in January. Where was the administration reaction to put a stop to that and instead reroute it to the stockpile?

[Blake]

I am better at some things than you. I won't bring them up.

Yeah you will, whatever you think that is, broker

[vy65]

:lmao Harriet Tubman $20 is now a first 90 days priority

[Blake]

Never said that.

Nobody knows what you're saying

[Spurs Homer]

Wow

the fat contrarian racist

sure loves to defend his cult leader

lol


Defending
Muh
Con man

[DMC]

That's what it seems to be about, nothing else. Other countries have shown proof-of-concept of the single-payer system, while the American healthcare system is more interested in sickness than in health because there isn't profit in health. Socially funded single payer systems can act more faithfully to the "Do No Harm" concept of medicine while our doctors, beholden to profit, prescribe opiates and SSRIs like candy because that's where the highest margins are. These stats aren't happy accidents.

https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-largest-antidepressant-drug-users-2016-2
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/27/americans-consume-almost-all-of-the-global-opioid-supply.html

Our system is shit. Again, there's no rational argument against universal healthcare anymore because we see it work in ALL first world countries. So yes, it's the "fear" of the socialism boogeyman that is driving resistance to actually reforming our healthcare system into a first world healthcare system.

And for the anti-China crowd. Guess what drove pharma to outsource production of meds there? Hmmm? Profit? You don't see us outsourcing an F35's missile guidance system to China. And it's biting us in the ass where we can't even manufacture our own meds, PPE, and other such medical equipment during a pandemic.

I'll say it again for the 2nd time: Our system is shit.

Push harder for Bernie I guess?

[Blake]

:lmao Harriet Tubman $20 is now a first 90 days priority

You don't think black women should have any priorities?

[DMC]

Nobody knows what you're saying

If you ever say anything interesting it will be a first. Well there was that one time. :lol

[DMC]

You don't think black women should have any priorities?

Fucking racists.

[DMC]

It wasn't. Let's blame Obama for that. Now, let's talk about this administration being briefed about this back in November, then again in January. Where was the PPE bill?

The US was shipping out millions of masks overseas in January. Where was the administration reaction to put a stop to that and instead reroute it to the stockpile?

Just answer the question, El. yes or no. Would it have been there in January if he did?

On January 14th, the WHO said there's no human to human transmission.

[ElNono]

The U.S. exported more than $1.7 million worth of surgical masks to China in January alone – more than double the previous January. In February, shipments surged to $15.8 million, the data show.

Jesse Wang, co-founder of LuggEasy, a company that provides shipping services to Chinese residents in the U.S., confirmed the surge of masks exports in February. His company exported 14,000 to 15,000 pounds of masks from the U.S. to China in early 2020 alone.

At a retail price of roughly 50 cents a mask – which is likely higher than what wholesale customers would have paid – that meant more than 31.6 million surgical masks were shipped to China during the second month of the year, based on the trade data.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/04/02/us-exports-masks-ppe-china-surged-early-phase-coronavirus/5109747002/


That was February. He had the DPA to use and reroute all those masks to the stockpile. Was that Obama's fault too?

[vy65]

You don't think black women should have any priorities?

Thousands of Americans may die, but a black woman won’t grace our sweet sweet currency if I have anything to do with it

[Play Boban]

Liberate Texas!

[ElNono]

Just answer the question, El. yes or no. Would it have been there in January if he did?

On January 14th, the WHO said there's no human to human transmission.

See my previous post above.

[DMC]

You're slinging shit because you're flailing and it's occurring to you that you've spent two hours tirelessly defending a buffoon. I'm not going to entertain it. Soldier on, Trump lover.

K bye Felicia

[ChumpDumper]

Just answer the question, El. yes or no. Would it have been there in January if he did?Sure. He could've just stolen shipments like he's doing now.

[Blake]

If you ever say anything interesting it will be a first. Well there was that one time. :lol

Ok, but nobody knows what the fuck you're talking about here

[ElNono]

Just answer the question, El. yes or no. Would it have been there in January if he did?

On January 14th, the WHO said there's no human to human transmission.

Just so it doesn't get lost in translation, again, this was in February:

The U.S. exported more than $1.7 million worth of surgical masks to China in January alone – more than double the previous January. In February, shipments surged to $15.8 million, the data show.

Jesse Wang, co-founder of LuggEasy, a company that provides shipping services to Chinese residents in the U.S., confirmed the surge of masks exports in February. His company exported 14,000 to 15,000 pounds of masks from the U.S. to China in early 2020 alone.

At a retail price of roughly 50 cents a mask – which is likely higher than what wholesale customers would have paid – that meant more than 31.6 million surgical masks were shipped to China during the second month of the year, based on the trade data.

You don't think we could've used those in the national stockpile? How does that work? Is that Obama's fault?

That was February, we could've started in January. This fucker just didn't take this shit seriously.

[DMC]

The U.S. exported more than $1.7 million worth of surgical masks to China in January alone – more than double the previous January. In February, shipments surged to $15.8 million, the data show.

Jesse Wang, co-founder of LuggEasy, a company that provides shipping services to Chinese residents in the U.S., confirmed the surge of masks exports in February. His company exported 14,000 to 15,000 pounds of masks from the U.S. to China in early 2020 alone.

At a retail price of roughly 50 cents a mask – which is likely higher than what wholesale customers would have paid – that meant more than 31.6 million surgical masks were shipped to China during the second month of the year, based on the trade data.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/04/02/us-exports-masks-ppe-china-surged-early-phase-coronavirus/5109747002/


That was February. He had the DPA to use and reroute all those masks to the stockpile. Was that Obama's fault too?

You wanted him to use the DPA in early February? How many infections/deaths were there then?

[ChumpDumper]

The U.S. exported more than $1.7 million worth of surgical masks to China in January alone – more than double the previous January. In February, shipments surged to $15.8 million, the data show.

Jesse Wang, co-founder of LuggEasy, a company that provides shipping services to Chinese residents in the U.S., confirmed the surge of masks exports in February. His company exported 14,000 to 15,000 pounds of masks from the U.S. to China in early 2020 alone.

At a retail price of roughly 50 cents a mask – which is likely higher than what wholesale customers would have paid – that meant more than 31.6 million surgical masks were shipped to China during the second month of the year, based on the trade data.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/04/02/us-exports-masks-ppe-china-surged-early-phase-coronavirus/5109747002/


That was February. He had the DPA to use and reroute all those masks to the stockpile. Was that Obama's fault too?120% Obama's fault
-55% Trump's fault

[ChumpDumper]

You wanted him to use the DPA in early February? How many infections/deaths were there then?True, that would've taken leadership and reading PDBs and shit.

[vy65]

You wanted him to use the DPA in early February? How many infections/deaths were there then?

Does that matter? The point was to prevent them for happening in the first place. That’s why you act in February and not April. :lmao

[ElNono]

You wanted him to use the DPA in early February? How many infections/deaths were there then?

Why does the infection count matters now? Isn't that what you do when you suspect there might be something fucking big coming your way? You prepare? That's leadership.

Did he even know we had a PPE backlog? I suspect he had no idea.

An idiot like hater was calling this shit on January 22nd, see the first post on this thread.

[vy65]

True, that would've taken leadership and reading PDBs and shit.

Would’ve detracted from the 8 hours of watching fox and friends — essential aspects of his impeachment defense

[ChumpDumper]

Does that matter? The point was to prevent them for happening in the first place. That’s why you act in February and not April. :lmaoEspecially since he has absolute authority.

[midnightpulp]

Is DMC blaming 70 percent of the pandemic's fallout on Obama and 30 percent on Trump? :lol

Or just the PPE debacle? Even if we blame the PPE debacle 100 percent on Obama, Trump is largely to blame for the US's overall response to the pandemic. This is the smoking fuckin' gun, and no amount of spinning, talking about closing down travel with China (which didn't actually happen, as some 40 thousand Chinese still travelled here after Trump's ban), and blaming Democrats will change that:

1232058127740174339

Days before, Republican senators were selling off stock.


However, on Feb. 13, the senator made more than 30 stock sales.

On Feb. 27, Burr told a private audience of wealthy constituents that COVID-19 was "much more aggressive in its transmission than anything that we have seen in recent history. ... It is probably more akin to the 1918 pandemic."

Oh yeah, but Dear Leader was oblivious. Nah, he was hoping the virus would turn out to be a "nothing burger" and downplayed and downplayed to protect the DOW. That was sole motivation until reality finally hit him in the face. He sacrificed Americans for the stock market, and that should never, ever be forgiven. "Uhhhh, b-b-but Democrats did this thing!" Lynch their asses, too. I don't give a shit about Pelosi, et al. That's the freedom you have when you don't revere politicians as some kind of savior.

[Blake]

You wanted him to use the DPA in early February? How many infections/deaths were there then?

Det goalpost

[ChumpDumper]

Is DMC blaming 70 percent of the pandemic's fallout on Obama and 30 percent on Trump? :lol

Or just the PPE debacle? Even if we blame the PPE debacle 100 percent on Obama, Trump is largely to blame for the US's overall response to the pandemic. This is the smoking fuckin' gun, and no amount of spinning, talking about closing down travel with China (which didn't actually happen, as some 40 thousand Chinese still travelled here after Trump's ban), and blaming Democrats will change that:

1232058127740174339

Days before, Republican senators were selling off stock.



Oh yeah, but Dear Leader was oblivious. Nah, he was hoping the virus would turn out to be a "nothing burger" and downplayed and downplayed to protect the DOW. That was sole motivation until reality finally hit him in the face. He sacrificed Americans for the stock market, and that should never, ever be forgiven. "Uhhhh, b-b-but Democrats did this thing!" Lynch their asses, too. I don't give a shit about Pelosi, et al. That's the freedom you have when you don't revere politicians as some kind of savior.DeflectMC is desperate to insulate Trump from any blame.

Why?

No idea.

[DMC]

Does that matter? The point was to prevent them for happening in the first place. That’s why you act in February and not April. :lmao

So why did the mayor of NY tell people to go out and have fun?

Should Trump have sent in the Marines to stop them?

[ElNono]

Nah, he was hoping the virus would turn out to be a "nothing burger" and downplayed and downplayed to protect the DOW.

We all know this is what happened, and he thought he could talk his way out of this one like he had done with lots of things before.

He only realized how fucked he was once somebody told him his re-election would be in jeopardy if he had 50k+ deaths on his tally.

Because I still don't think he gives one damn about the dead, he only gives a shit about his re-election.

[vy65]

Is DMC blaming 70 percent of the pandemic's fallout on Obama and 30 percent on Trump? :lol

Or just the PPE debacle? Even if we blame the PPE debacle 100 percent on Obama, Trump is largely to blame for the US's overall response to the pandemic. This is the smoking fuckin' gun, and no amount of spinning, talking about closing down travel with China (which didn't actually happen, as some 40 thousand Chinese still travelled here after Trump's ban), and blaming Democrats will change that:

1232058127740174339

Days before, Republican senators were selling off stock.



Oh yeah, but Dear Leader was oblivious. Nah, he was hoping the virus would turn out to be a "nothing burger" and downplayed and downplayed to protect the DOW. That was sole motivation until reality finally hit him in the face. He sacrificed Americans for the stock market, and that should never, ever be forgiven. "Uhhhh, b-b-but Democrats did this thing!" Lynch their asses, too. I don't give a shit about Pelosi, et al. That's the freedom you have when you don't revere politicians as some kind of savior.

It’s bizarre that people think they need to choose a side to criticize another. It’s totally acceptable to say: I hate what Obama did while President - and - I think Trump is just as bad. It’s this weird tribalism. For someone who refuses forced choices, you’d think they’d know better

[ChumpDumper]

So why did the mayor of NY tell people to go out and have fun?

Should Trump have sent in the Marines to stop them?shit tornado engaged

[Blake]

So why did the mayor of NY tell people to go out and have fun?

Should Trump have sent in the Marines to stop them?

Whataboutthemayor

[DMC]

Is DMC blaming 70 percent of the pandemic's fallout on Obama and 30 percent on Trump? :lol

Or just the PPE debacle? Even if we blame the PPE debacle 100 percent on Obama, Trump is largely to blame for the US's overall response to the pandemic. This is the smoking fuckin' gun, and no amount of spinning, talking about closing down travel with China (which didn't actually happen, as some 40 thousand Chinese still travelled here after Trump's ban), and blaming Democrats will change that:

1232058127740174339

Days before, Republican senators were selling off stock.



Oh yeah, but Dear Leader was oblivious. Nah, he was hoping the virus would turn out to be a "nothing burger" and downplayed and downplayed to protect the DOW. That was sole motivation until reality finally hit him in the face. He sacrificed Americans for the stock market, and that should never, ever be forgiven. "Uhhhh, b-b-but Democrats did this thing!" Lynch their asses, too. I don't give a shit about Pelosi, et al. That's the freedom you have when you don't revere politicians as some kind of savior.

Both sides sold off stock.

Don't be dishonest now Mid.

The governor and mayor of NY weren't too concerned about it even though they have large Chinese populations and a major connection point.

[midnightpulp]

Push harder for Bernie I guess?

Never happen. Just like we discussed the other day. The Left is too fractured. The moderate Left is also scared by the "socialism" word. I give Republicans full credit for understanding how to exploit single issues that can unite their base and drive them to the polls, those issues being Jebus, Abortion, Tax Cuts, and Guns. Whiny fuckin' leftists want the "perfect" candidate. Like Joe Biden could be for every leftist cause in the book, but if he's against "bathroom laws," the SJW segment of the left will stay home. Meanwhile, an evangelical Republican would still get an atheist Libertarian's vote just for the tax cuts.

[vy65]

So why did the mayor of NY tell people to go out and have fun?

Should Trump have sent in the Marines to stop them?

From Cuomo to Obama to Di Blasio ... still can’t defend Trump.

The mayor was really dumb to say that. He should t have. What’s that got to do with Trump ignoring national security briefing that told him it’d be prudent to build up the stockpile? Oh, right, nothing.

[DMC]

It’s bizarre that people think they need to choose a side to criticize another. It’s totally acceptable to say: I hate what Obama did while President - and - I think Trump is just as bad. It’s this weird tribalism. For someone who refuses forced choices, you’d think they’d know better

But you're not saying that. You're trying to pin people down on Trump. Why, who knows.

[ElNono]

DeBlasio got blasted here as far as I know, BTW... At least from the NY resident.

Cuomo also fucked up with his ventilator stockpile.

Again, whataboutism doesn't invalidates any other criticism.

[midnightpulp]

Both sides sold off stock.

Don't be dishonest now Mid.

The governor and mayor of NY weren't too concerned about it even though they have large Chinese populations and a major connection point.

I specified Republicans in this case because they would presumably be more in communication with Trump. Diane Feinstein calling Trump probably doesn't get an answer.

[Blake]

Both sides sold off stock.

Don't be dishonest now Mid.

The governor and mayor of NY weren't too concerned about it even though they have large Chinese populations and a major connection point.

whataboutthedems

[vy65]

shit tornado engaged

Odds on who’s next to blame? Smart money is on Ellen Degeneres or BLM

[DMC]

From Cuomo to Obama to Di Blasio ... still can’t defend Trump.

The mayor was really dumb to say that. He should t have. What’s that got to do with Trump ignoring national security briefing that told him it’d be prudent to build up the stockpile? Oh, right, nothing.

I guess 22.5 thousand dead people don't matter as long as you get your TDS fix.

If it's status quo to ignore the briefing for 2 consecutive terms (Obama) then it's status quo.

[vy65]

But you're not saying that. You're trying to pin people down on Trump. Why, who knows.

At no point in time have you said: Trump fucking sucks bro, yeah he really fucked up.

You’re defending him.

Because he’s your cult leader