Coronavirus is one mutation away from infecting millions

[DMC]

there are plenty of viruses that are contained from causing any symptoms of disease yet replicate within us. do you wanna list?

Off the top of your head, Wild Cobra, that just happens to be in alphabetical order? :lol

I know you want to impress people with your internet science, creator of ELISA assays, but you'll have to stow it.

[pgardn]

No, I mean I don't feel like teaching you shit just to enable you to argue without sounding like a retard.

oh you don’t want to touch that and you know it.
you don’t know shit about the biology of viruses, that’s it that’s all.
do you wanna keep getting embarrassed?
I can help you with that.

[DMC]

how can they intentionally release it when it’s gone like you’ve implied.
there are many viruses that are contained from causing a disease but they replicate within us but you wouldn’t know that.


there are plenty of viruses that are contained from causing any symptoms of disease yet replicate within us. do you wanna list?

SOMEONE wants to stand up in front of the class and give their book report. :lol

[pgardn]

Off the top of your head, Wild Cobra, that just happens to be in alphabetical order? :lol

I know you want to impress people with your internet science, creator of ELISA assays, but you'll have to stow it.

so now you go with false claims about a technique you don’t even understand.
do you still not understand the difference between nature versus nurture do we need to go that far back?

[DMC]

oh you don’t want to touch that and you know it.
you don’t know shit about the biology of viruses, that’s it that’s all.
do you wanna keep getting embarrassed?
I can help you with that.

Since you have zero idea what you're talking about, the only embarrassing thing about you is that I am wasting my time talking to a wannabe.

[pgardn]

SOMEONE wants to stand up in front of the class and give their book report. :lol

got the emoticon!

Old man is flustered.
The PhD headhunter has been exposed.

[pgardn]

Since you have zero idea what you're talking about, the only embarrassing thing about you is that I am wasting my time talking to a wannabe.

you bet you wanna call it wasting your time.
because if we actually discuss it, you’re in deep shit.

[DMC]

got the emoticon!

Old man is flustered.
The PhD headhunter has been exposed.

You're so hard up to tell someone about your degree. Go ahead. Talk about yourself. Use 3rd person if that makes you feel special. I don't give a shit what you do, did, whatever. You act like a retard here, like you suffered brain damage in a car accident.

[DMC]

you bet you wanna call it wasting your time.
because if we actually discuss it, you’re in deep shit.

You going to open a can of intellectual whoopass?

[DMC]

:lol cannot even explain what he did to develop the "finer points of the ELISA assay"

[pgardn]

You going to open a can of intellectual whoopass?

there’s nothing intellectual all about it.

it’s just clear you don’t know what the shit you’re talking about.
do you want to keep discussing a subject you don’t know, then I’ll help embarrass you, keep going old man.

[pgardn]

:lol cannot even explain what he did to develop the "finer points of the ELISA assay"

I will be happy to explain it to you but you’re gonna have to read some stuff to even understand what the shit you’re complaining about.

[DMC]

there’s nothing intellectual all about it.

it’s just clear you don’t know what the shit you’re talking about.
do you want to keep discussing a subject you don’t know, then I’ll help embarrass you, keep going old man.

All these threats and not an ounce of intellectual whoopass.

[DMC]

I will be happy to explain it to you but you’re gonna have to read some stuff to even understand what the shit you’re complaining about.

If your understanding of it is as bad as you're ability to read people online, you're pissing up a tree. but :lol at "no one could possibly understand the depths of my knowledge"

[ElNono]

75 new cases aren't flares when you had zero. Did they let 75 infected people back into the country. Did their new cases ever drop to zero? How did infected people not infect more people, before they were known to be infected? Did South Korea have no asymptomatic carriers?

The metric is whether your infections are going up or down, at what rate, etc. Don't think South Korea ever said their eradicated the disease. 80 new infections is relatively high for them at this time.

Again, people coming back to the country from overseas is one vector. You don't need to allow re-entry to 75 of them, one coming back infected can get a bunch of people infected in no time. Like I said, it's a very contagious disease. That's where things they did right, like contact tracing, will help get that under control.

[pgardn]

just waiting for you to take the fall again nature versus nurture boy.
tell us about the proteins on the virus and why I said it’s possible a vaccine would work out very well.

I even put up the article so let’s go to it:
Go.

that’s what you pretended to make fun of in the first place so give me your thoughts?

[pgardn]

If your understanding of it is as bad as you're ability to read people online, you're pissing up a tree. but :lol at "no one could possibly understand the depths of my knowledge"

Plenty of people can and do.

just not you.
because you pretend to know stuff you don’t, it’s a really easy to pick out fakers.

[pgardn]

DMC

The shithead who quotes me to refute random guy.
now gets called upon and that tail goes so far up your ass...

[DMC]

Plenty of people can and do.

just not you.
because you pretend to know stuff you don’t, it’s a really easy to pick out fakers.

:lol fakers

[pgardn]

:lol fakers

Yep that would be you

Go ahead show the board I gave you the topic to begin with and you made fun of it
i’ll post it again so you can meet up to your obligation “ Intellectual whoop ass“

[DMC]

Yep that would be you

Go ahead show the board I gave you the topic to begin with and you made fun of it
i’ll post it again so you can meet up to your obligation “ Intellectual whoop ass“

Still waiting for you to explain the finer points of the ELISA assay you keep side stepping on account of the complexity of it.

[pgardn]

just waiting for you to take the fall again nature versus nurture boy.
tell us about the proteins on the virus and why I said it’s possible a vaccine would work out very well.

I even put up the article so let’s go to it:
Go.

that’s what you pretended to make fun of in the first place so give me your thoughts?

go ahead

expand on this, give me your thoughts

[pgardn]

Still waiting for you to explain the finer points of the ELISA assay you keep side stepping on account of the complexity of it.

you talked about the 70s and then lied that I said I invented it.
well at that stage it was very qualitative and it’s turned quantitative.

explain how this was done.

Uh ohhh...

keep going old man...

[Nathan89]

A lot of magatards out protesting with no regard for social distancing today. Damn shame they don't care about memaw and pepaw.

[DMC]

you talked about the 70s and then lied that I said I invented it.
well at that stage it was very qualitative and it’s turned quantitative.

explain how this was done.

Uh ohhh...

keep going old man...

Duh... counts against a standard curve? I'm just guessing.

[DMC]

Seriously?

"we used to just look at the microtiter plate and see the color change, now we have a plate reader"

Wow the insane level of science. I just can't take no more. Next you're going to tell me there are automatic plate washers!

[pgardn]

Duh... counts against a standard curve? I'm just guessing.

Technique fathead.

you can’t make a standard curve against a color change, it’s a yes or no.
(qualitative)

[DMC]

Technique fathead.

you can’t make a standard curve against a color change, it’s a yes or no.
(qualitative)

Oh Jesus Christ... are you really that impressed with a fluorometer, with the fact that things fluoresce will give off a particular wavelength during a dark period of a rapid flashlamp action and be picked up by a PMT??

That's all I'm giving you.

ELISA is not impressive.

[pgardn]

Plate reader...

like this is nothing and it gets much better than that:
it’s great to pull that fish in, have him read, and then flunk because he does not know it.

[spurraider21]

It's what happens when you relax. This is a very contagious disease. Hopefully they can run the same program and get a handle on it asap.
isnt contagious just another word for magic?

[pgardn]

Oh Jesus Christ... are you really that impressed with a fluorometer, with the fact that things fluoresce will give off a particular wavelength during a dark period of a rapid flashlamp action and be picked up by a PMT??

oh my yes...

how could you possibly get an antibody to Fluoresce?

[DMC]

Plate reader...

like this is nothing and it gets much better than that:
it’s great to pull that fish in, have him read, and then flunk because he does not know it.

You've said basically nothing. You're talking about a plate reader, are you not? Vs eyeballing the plate (qualitative)?

[ElNono]

isnt contagious just another word for magic?

only when it disappears

[pgardn]

Keep reading.
you’re not close to done because you don’t know it.

[pgardn]

You've said basically nothing. You're talking about a plate reader, are you not? Vs eyeballing the plate (qualitative)?

again how do you get an antibody to Fluoresce?
keep reading

[DMC]

oh my yes...

how could you possibly get an antibody to Fluoresce?

You'd have to attach a tracer! Maybe Eu? So your sandwich or competitive assay can be counted? Just a guess.

[DMC]

again how do you get an antibody to Fluoresce?
keep reading

I don't need to read anything.

[pgardn]

I don't need to read anything.

yes you do. Big chap.

same question again answer it

[DMC]

yes you do. Big chap.

same question again answer it

You're a clown. I told you how it works, a flash lamp and read by a photomultiplier tube. Basic fluorometer. Add some high voltage and some lenses, a feedback loop for flash lamp control to avoid saturation, control dark counts with the proper enclosure, basic ROTM plate reader (minus the robotics).

Plate readers are kindergarten level shit.

[pgardn]

You're a clown. I told you how it works, a flash lamp and read by a photomultiplier tube. Basic fluorometer. Add some high voltage and some lenses, a feedback loop for flash lamp control to avoid saturation, control dark counts with the proper enclosure, basic ROTM plate reader (minus the robotics).


you’re getting into the physics and off the biology.

wtf is a tracer?

[pgardn]

Old man is reading right now...

[DMC]

you’re getting into the physics and off the biology.

wtf is a tracer?

I know the biology. If I know the physics then by default I'd have to know the biology. Anyone can google how tracers work. I already explained it with the competitive vs sandwich comment.

[pgardn]

You're a clown. I told you how it works, a flash lamp and read by a photomultiplier tube. Basic fluorometer. Add some high voltage and some lenses, a feedback loop for flash lamp control to avoid saturation, control dark counts with the proper enclosure, basic ROTM plate reader (minus the robotics).

Plate readers are kindergarten level shit.

we haven’t even got to the reading how the fuck do you get an antibody to show itself
kindergarten level....you’re such a pompous ass. And again it’s because you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about

[pgardn]

I know the biology. If I know the physics then by default I'd have to know the biology. Anyone can google how tracers work. I already explained it with the competitive vs sandwich comment.

you are absolutely wrong.

do you think knowing the physics the simplest stuff of all with hardly any variables gives you knowledge of something as complex as biology?

you’ve got to be kidding!

and yeah you’re wrong, again.
but keep going on man
you can continue to show your ignorance, to me anyway

[pgardn]

Keep reading

[DMC]

we haven’t even got to the reading how the fuck do you get an antibody to show itself
kindergarten level....you’re such a pompous ass. And again it’s because you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about

Show itself? That doesn't happen. You have to actually fluoresce it unless you're back to eyeballing.

[DMC]

you are absolutely wrong.

do you think knowing the physics the simplest stuff of all with hardly any variables gives you knowledge of something as complex as biology?

you’ve got to be kidding!

and yeah you’re wrong, again.
but keep going on man
you can continue to show your ignorance, to me anyway

Maybe graduate from microtiter plates and readers to something more interesting and more complex, like MS/MS.

[pgardn]

DMC

The stubborn old man getting ravaged by his own ignorant persistence
We will do this yet again and bore the hell out of the board.

how many times have you gotten baited into looking stupid because of a superiority complex? Got to have a W. The board is here to slice you up because you gotta have it.

i’ll be here for you again for about the fifth time.
you really need to stick to the guns.

[hater]

I thought they had total control of it. How did they magically get more cases?

Infectious diseases are hard!

[DMC]

DMC

The stubborn old man getting ravaged by his own ignorant persistence
We will do this yet again and bore the hell out of the board.

how many times have you gotten baited into looking stupid because of a superiority complex? Got to have a W. The board is here to slice you up because you gotta have it.

i’ll be here for you again for about the fifth time.
you really need to stick to the guns.

You keep grading your own paper here :lol

I'm a professional. Do you think I am going to go into detail about shit that's 2nd nature to me? I gave you enough to know this isn't a novel concept. So now explain what you developed.

[pgardn]

Maybe graduate from microtiter plates and readers to something more interesting and more complex, like MS/MS.

you’re the only one talking about plates you fool.
i’ve said nothing about them it’s basically minor league except it’s important what they’re made out of so you can coat them properly.

but now we’re talking about the basics here how to make anybody show up
you have no clue as to what is even difficult and easy you just think you can throw out terms and intimidate people.

got the wrong guy
sorry bud

[DMC]

you’re the only one talking about plates you fool.
i’ve said nothing about them it’s basically minor league except it’s important what they’re made out of so you can coat them properly.

but now we’re talking about the basics here how to make anybody show up
you have no clue as to what is even difficult and easy you just think you can throw out terms and intimidate people.

got the wrong guy
sorry bud

Make anybody show up? Who did you invite?

Did the mass spec suggestion scare you?

[DMC]

I'd be happy to teach you about it if you don't know enough to discuss it.

[pgardn]

You keep grading your own paper here :lol

I'm a professional. Do you think I am going to go into detail about shit that's 2nd nature to me? I gave you enough to know this isn't a novel concept. So now explain what you developed.

You and I both know you’re a hack
I am by no means a master scientist but I know a hell of a lot more than you do especially about this stuff

No you’re not gonna go into any detail because you can’t and it doesn’t require detail if you know the stuff
you could simply just state answers.

and I never really want to talk about any of this on this board
but you just so agreeably asked to be punched in the face
all in search of your W it’s a beautiful thing

[pgardn]

Make anybody show up? Who did you invite?

Did the mass spec suggestion scare you?

yeah I try to get out of that one if I was you as well

mr. protien

[DMC]

You and I both know you’re a hack
I am by no means a master scientist but I know a hell of a lot more than you do especially about this stuff

No you’re not gonna go into any detail because you can’t and it doesn’t require detail if you know the stuff
you could simply just state answers.

and I never really want to talk about any of this on this board
but you just so agreeably asked to be punched in the face
all in search of your W it’s a beautiful thing

I gave you the answers. If you knew anything you'd know that when I said competitive and sandwich that binding sites are important. You only count Eu. You don't count the antibody. You never actually see the antibody. You just know the binding makes it so that every time you count Jack, you know Jill was there as well so in effect you counted Jill. If Jill is invisible, you can only see Jack, then you can only count Jill when you see Jack.

You don't know Jack.

[DMC]

yeah I try to get out of that one if I was you as well

mr. protien

"but now we’re talking about the basics here how to make anybody show up" -You

[pgardn]

"but now we’re talking about the basics here how to make anybody show up" -You

yep explain it

and then after that explain why it’s really difficult

especially if you have new very sensitive techniques of detecting the complex

[DMC]

Really running from the mass spec discussion, scientist guy.

[pgardn]

Either read or deflect, I say you deflect, it’s your go to

[DMC]

yep explain it

and then after that explain why it’s really difficult

especially if you have new very sensitive techniques of detecting the complex
I haven't read any article you posted. I don't need to.

It's not difficult. People do it all day every day. If you have techniques (new and sensitive are "ooh and ahh" words that mean nothing in science) then it can't be that difficult. Maybe you have to hand pipette, maybe you have to spin it down, maybe you have to incubate it for a long time, maybe it has a high que time, maybe maybe maybe.

If you want specific discussions, maybe stop being so evasive and just say you were part of a study group in school.

[pgardn]

Really running from the mass spec discussion, scientist guy.

mass spec?

why the fck would you even bring that up?
totally off subject.

oh DMC knows a machine!

[pgardn]

You said "anybody".

no I said antibody and my voice recognition on my phone turned it to anybody

what’s your excuse for protien Ms Crutchfield?

damn straight you better get off topic

[DMC]

mass spec?

why the fck would you even bring that up?
totally off subject.

oh DMC knows a machine!

Machine? lol

Scientist calling an instrument a machine

[pgardn]

I haven't read any article you posted. I don't need to.

It's not difficult. People do it all day every day. If you have techniques (new and sensitive are "ooh and ahh" words that mean nothing in science) then it can't be that difficult. Maybe you have to hand pipette, maybe you have to spin it down, maybe you have to incubate it for a long time, maybe it has a high que time, maybe maybe maybe.

If you want specific discussions, maybe stop being so evasive and just say you were part of a study group in school.

it’s a complex if the antibody binds with something fat head.

[pgardn]

Machine? lol

Scientist calling an instrument a machine

oh my God it’s just horrible!
another deflection keep getting off subject old man

just say a word any word uh uh .... flask! You been hitting it hard

[DMC]

it’s a complex if the antibody binds with something fat head.

"and then after that explain why it’s really difficult" -you

You said it's really difficult. I know what a complex is. You seem to have a complex yourself.

[DMC]

I gave you the Jack and Jill analogy. I know you wanted technical terms to feel special but you're not at that level yet.

[pgardn]

"and then after that explain why it’s really difficult" -you

You said it's really difficult. I know what a complex is. You seem to have a complex yourself.

it is really difficult, but it’s very easy to explain why it’s difficult dumb ass

it takes three words
And if you understand antibodies, those three words will be very meaningful

[DMC]

it is really difficult, but it’s very easy to explain why it’s difficult dumb ass

it takes three words
And if you understand antibodies, those three words will be very meaningful
So you go from pretending I was confusing "complex" with "difficult" to this shit?

Just stop. You're one of those "this is how I learned it" guys, aren't you?

I already showed you that I know how ELISA works. I know more about it than you I'm sure. You still haven't said shit about what you did to develop it even after you bragged about doing so.

[pgardn]

I gave you the Jack and Jill analogy. I know you wanted technical terms to feel special but you're not at that level yet.

sure you did
you were really awful at pretending

[pgardn]

So you go from pretending I was confusing "complex" with "difficult" to this shit?

Just stop. You're one of those "this is how I learned it" guys, aren't you?

I already showed you that I know how ELISA works. I know more about it than you I'm sure. You still haven't said shit about what you did to develop it even after you bragged about doing so.

You read up on it and by doing so showed me you really don’t understand it
and that’s how we detect charlatans

to the board I must apologize for all this drivel.
but this pompous ass we know as DMC is a fake

Night night DMC
you and I know what you are.
and it’s perfect for these times.

[boutons_deux]

California’s sudden spike in COVID-19 is a disturbing warning for the whole country

there were 2,565 new cases in California on May 25 —

breaking the previous one-day record from May 5th, when 2,546 new cases were reported across the state.

the state as a whole is still seeing a steady increase, particularly in the Bay Area (https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Coronavirus-cases-on-the-rise-across-the-Bay-15296281.php) and Los Angeles County. Indeed, Los Angeles County, despite seeing its biggest spike to date this week, (https://patch.com/california/hollywood/la-sees-largest-coronavirus-spike-stealth-spreaders-pose-risk)

is moving forward with various activities reopening (https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-05-26/los-angeles-county-reopens-with-new-state-guidelines-while-city-allows-in-store-shopping).

Because California is seen as a political and public health leader in the country,

the sharp rise in cases is a harbinger for what is likely

to happen in other states that follow the Golden State’s lead.

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/05/californias-sudden-spike-in-covid-19-is-a-disturbing-warning-for-the-whole-country/

[hater]

Called it :tu

I said uk was gonna make Italy look like a weekend in the Ozarks

https://twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1265886432989786113?s=19

[baseline bum]

Called it :tu

I said uk was gonna make Italy look like a weekend in the Ozarks

https://twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1265886432989786113?s=19

And we're following in their lead...

[hater]

called it :tu

I said everyone would be wearing masks back i February


called it

https://twitter.com/ScienceMagazine/status/1265705646353076224?s=20

[tholdren]

it’s a complex if the antibody binds with something fat head.

bwahahahhahaha wrong about the virus.

[DMC]

pgardn with the Wild Cobra schtick.

[RandomGuy]

I just posted two. You can claim it didn’t make you happy inside to think about Trump voters dying because they weren’t as “afraid” of the virus as Democrats but no one here from either side would believe you.

No, actually you didn't. "grimly note" is pretty much the opposite of "giddy".

You fucking lying sack of shit.

[tholdren]

No, actually you didn't. "grimly note" is pretty much the opposite of "giddy".

You fucking lying sack of shit.

Covid less dangerous than flu to a majority.

[RandomGuy]

Do you think that available hospital space is important to considering how much to attempt to reduce the R0 value? Why or why not?


Sweden didnt lock down
Because the argument was that only experts were allowed to have an opinion. Neil furgusons track record worse than his.

It didn't matter. The rate of transmission was overstated and those who would need intervention via hospital were also overstated. As direct evidence by the furloughs. And almost 4 months into the data collection there are still errors in collecting reporting and classifying that have been used to perpetuate something that didn't need to take place.


So a consideration of available hospital space is not important? Just trying to be clear here. Seems like you are saying it is not.


I was perfectly clear. The modeling, the numbers you believed, were inaccruate. Hence the furloughs and the continued layoffs. The RATE OF TRANSMISSION WAS OVERSTATED AS WERE THOSE WHO MAY NEED HOSPITALIZED.

You clearly avoided answering the question, as asked, and answered a question I did not ask.

Dishonest people avoid honest questions.

3rd time
Do you think that available hospital space is important to considering how much to attempt to reduce the R0 value? I will settle for a simple yes or no.

[tholdren]

You clearly avoided answering the question, as asked, and answered a question I did not ask.

Dishonest people avoid honest questions.

3rd time
Do you think that available hospital space is important to considering how much to attempt to reduce the R0 value? I will settle for a simple yes or no.
You said Sweden locked down. They didn't. Thats a lie.
Hospital space is important, but irrelevant with the data that was on hand. There was no need for extra space as was confirmed by the extreme failure of the models and the proof being furloughs and hospitalization.

That would be like shutting down and bringing in ships every flu season and saying that there is a capacity problem.

Not a very good question by you. Models wrong just admit. Less than flu for a majority.

[RandomGuy]

Do you think that available hospital space is important to considering how much to attempt to reduce the R0 value? Why or why not?


Sweden didnt lock down
Because the argument was that only experts were allowed to have an opinion. Neil furgusons track record worse than his.

It didn't matter. The rate of transmission was overstated ....


So a consideration of available hospital space is not important? Just trying to be clear here. Seems like you are saying it is not.


I was perfectly clear. The modeling, the numbers you believed, were inaccruate...


You clearly avoided answering the question, as asked, and answered a question I did not ask.

Dishonest people avoid honest questions.

3rd time
Do you think that available hospital space is important to considering how much to attempt to reduce the R0 value? I will settle for a simple yes or no.


You said Sweden locked down....

Dishonest people avoid honest questions.

4th time
Do you think that available hospital space is important to considering how much to attempt to reduce the R0 value for any disease that might require hospitalization for some percentage of those affected with a disease? I will settle for a simple yes or no.

[tholdren]

Dishonest people avoid honest questions.

4th time
Do you think that available hospital space is important to considering how much to attempt to reduce the R0 value for any disease that might require hospitalization for some percentage of those affected with a disease? I will settle for a simple yes or no.

No not in the context of covid. As was proof by what resulted.

You are still grasping for hypotheticals that have been proven false. Which I can now understand why you are afraid of the media. I am sorry you feel this way. You will survive.

[RandomGuy]

When trying to make a case for some position or idea, we frequently encounter questions which challenge the coherency or validity of that position. When we are able to adequately answer those questions, our position becomes stronger. When we cannot answer the questions, then our position is weaker. If, however, we avoid the question altogether, then our reasoning process itself is revealed as possibly weak.
https://www.learnreligions.com/avoiding-the-question-250358




[from passage about how to identify liars]
... Finally, ..increased evasiveness, ... liars tend to avoid answering the question completely, perhaps by switching topics or by asking a question of their own.

[RandomGuy]

Do you think that available hospital space is important to considering how much to attempt to reduce the R0 value? Why or why not?


Sweden didnt lock down...
It didn't matter. The rate of transmission was overstated ....


So a consideration of available hospital space is not important? Just trying to be clear here. Seems like you are saying it is not.


I was perfectly clear. The modeling, the numbers you believed, were inaccruate...


You clearly avoided answering the question, as asked, and answered a question I did not ask.

Dishonest people avoid honest questions.

3rd time
Do you think that available hospital space is important to considering how much to attempt to reduce the R0 value? I will settle for a simple yes or no.


You said Sweden locked down....


Dishonest people avoid honest questions.

4th time [clarifying language added]
Do you think that available hospital space is important to considering how much to attempt to reduce the R0 value for any disease that might require hospitalization for some percentage of those affected with a disease? I will settle for a simple yes or no.


No not in the context of covid...

Dishonest people avoid honest questions.

I removed the question from a specific context so that we can arrive at a potential mutual agreement of principle, on which to base further discussion.

5th time [clarifying language added]
Do you think that available hospital space is important to considering how much to attempt to reduce the R0 value for any disease that might require hospitalization for some percentage of those affected with a disease? I will settle for a simple yes or no

[leemajors]

This EXACTLY why leadership is so important. You and I have seen how many institutions who are making models based on possibly flawed data. This is why you get the best in the brightest from all over the world together and not only discuss models, but discuss POLICY.

What has the orange guy done in this regard? Tout drugs that have not been fully tested. Hire Kushner to get these people together?

Its a fckn joke.

And.... the press. The press wants to play popularity games with this as well so they are playing around like they do with diets. Site ONE study and say, "the marshmallow diet is most effective in preventing diatetes! who would of thunk it?" This is seriously bad reporting which is why I have put up articles that are summaries of many studies written by people who UNDERSTAND science, not some hack spawned from Alex Jones.

Right now we are in a stage of bafflement even though we have sequenced the whole damn viral genome and know every protein it makes. This is amazing. But Biology is extraordinarily difficult, because it DOES NOT tell you how the virus is going to work in individuals with different genetic makeups, and certainly populations are very difficult as well as this is really new and not following previous rules.

Telling lies about it is not helpful. This is what the WH and some of the press is doing. Never ever say "we dont know and here is why" in Trump world.

The press is in business to sell ads, not be objective and tell truth.

[pgardn]

The press is in business to sell ads, not be objective and tell truth.

Some of the press will not sell adds if they are relied upon for accuracy, or a fair accounting of the current state of the situation.
The entertainment press which has captured many on this site is a different story.
My belief is there is good stuff out available, you just have to sift through it to find legit info.

[RandomGuy]

The press is in business to sell ads, not be objective and tell truth.

Truth.

Outrage sells ads.

[DMC]

Some of the press will not sell adds if they are relied upon for accuracy, or a fair accounting of the current state of the situation.
The entertainment press which has captured many on this site is a different story.
My belief is there is good stuff out available, you just have to sift through it to find legit info.

Wait, so you have to decide which information is true by sifting through until you find something you agree with? That's what people here do everyday. It's why Boutons posts relentlessly, for decades, shit no one reads, and why RG keeps dropping articles from confirmation bias hits on his echo chamber radar.

If you already know the truth, why do you go looking for it? You either want updated stats or the opinions of experts. While the stats are supposed to be factual, gathering methods are not consistent and tend to be driven by political and/or financial motives. The opinions of experts seem to change daily. So you're getting a snapshot of a chaotic system and as Heisenberg said, you just don't know the truth (something like that, I didn't see every episode).

[DMC]

You clearly avoided answering the question, as asked, and answered a question I did not ask.

Dishonest people avoid honest questions.

3rd time
Do you think that available hospital space is important to considering how much to attempt to reduce the R0 value? I will settle for a simple yes or no.

You and a few others here like to move the goalposts every other response. You keep trying to lodge a "w" from the discussion, and you abandon your prior statements in favor of new ones in a "ya but" fashion. No one is obligated to follow your descent into oblivion. Give up your original statements then move on to other ones, don't just pretend you never made such claims.

[boutons_deux]

Truth.

Outrage sells ads.

Bad news sells ads

and there won't be any bad news about the we-can't-piss-off the advertisers

[RandomGuy]

You and a few others here like to move the goalposts every other response. You keep trying to lodge a "w" from the discussion, and you abandon your prior statements in favor of new ones in a "ya but" fashion. No one is obligated to follow your descent into oblivion. Give up your original statements then move on to other ones, don't just pretend you never made such claims.

Nope. When I wrote
"Do you think that available hospital space is important to considering how much to attempt to reduce the R0 value? I will settle for a simple yes or no." I was thinking "generally for any disease".

Re-reading it, there appeared to be some ambiguity, so I made it explicit and clear.

Just because you are inherently dishonest, does not mean everyone else is.

The fact that you habitually use strawman lies about what others believe is enough for any reasonable person to conclude you are inherently dishonest.

[RandomGuy]

Wait, so you have to decide which information is true by sifting through until you find something you agree with? That's what people here do everyday.. RG keeps dropping articles from confirmation bias hits on his echo chamber radar. .

It is possible to advocate for any given view point by only posting information that does not support that viewpoint? Yes or no.

[RandomGuy]

um we know most survive Nancy 98% around

the issue is if ERs get flooded with sick. the whole medical system could fail resulting in much more > 2% dead

how hard is that to understand? tbqh


ERs get flooded with sick every year.

Get off your YT and Twitter reposting gig and get a job.


:lmao no they dont Nancy

you just showed your ignorance with that statement :lmao

carry on simpleton


You wouldn't know, no one has tweeted it.

https://www.dispatchhealth.com/blog/ers-are-overwhelmed-with-flu-patients-mobile-urgent-care-is-the-solution/

Emergency Department Visits
Data are for the U.S.

Number of visits: 139.0 million
Number of injury-related visits: 40.0 million
Number of visits per 100 persons: 43.3
Number of emergency department visits resulting in hospital admission: 14.5 million
Number of emergency department visits resulting in admission to critical care unit: 2.0 million
Percent of visits with patient seen in fewer than 15 minutes: 40.4%
Percent of visits resulting in hospital admission: 10.4%
Percent of visits resulting in transfer to a different (psychiatric or other) hospital: 2.2%

Do all those ER visits happen at once?

[DMC]

It is possible to advocate for any given view point by only posting information that does not support that viewpoint? Yes or no.

Can you go back and fuck your mother some more yes or no?

[tholdren]

Dishonest people avoid honest questions.

I removed the question from a specific context so that we can arrive at a potential mutual agreement of principle, on which to base further discussion.

5th time [clarifying language added]
Do you think that available hospital space is important to considering how much to attempt to reduce the R0 value for any disease that might require hospitalization for some percentage of those affected with a disease? I will settle for a simple yes or no
I've already explained to you Mr. Variables that NO it didn't for this virus. proven by events such as furloughs layoffs and no hospitals being whelmed.

If there was a vius that was highly lethal and highly communicable then maybe.

[DMC]

Do all those ER visits happen at once?
You ask stupid questions. Are you saying all these covid people got into a bus and went there at the same time?

[pgardn]

bwahahahhahaha wrong about the virus.


pgardn with the Wild Cobra schtick.

How cute.
The two dumbshits combine to make one dumb shit.

[TheGreatYacht]

https://mobile.twitter.com/PatriotUSA4201/status/1266074500510167042
Let that sink in

[pgardn]

bwahahahhahaha wrong about the virus.<br>
<br>

Wait, so you have to decide which information is true by sifting through until you find something you agree with? That's what people here do everyday. It's why Boutons posts relentlessly, for decades, shit no one reads, and why RG keeps dropping articles from confirmation bias hits on his echo chamber radar. <br>
<br>
If you already know the truth, why do you go looking for it? You either want updated stats or the opinions of experts. While the stats are supposed to be factual, gathering methods are not consistent and tend to be driven by political and/or financial motives. The opinions of experts seem to change daily. So you're getting a snapshot of a chaotic system and as Heisenberg said, you just don't know the truth (something like that, I didn't see every episode).<br>
<br>
No I sift through articles for facts backed up by numerous sources that make sense.<br>
Especially if I know the history of the situation. And yes its better to give it time as more evidence comes in.<br>
<br>
And quit with the horrible analogies with physics you dont even understand.<br><br>addendum: Tell us more about models in science again for another laugher.<br>
<br>
Its quite sad and futile for you, but I love the way you defend the worst conspiratard posters on the board.<br>
Keep at it old man, you make an easy target.<br>
<br>
And again you forgot you used MY fact to refute RG and you are stupid enough to bring it up again.<br>
Think about that fact and relate that to Heisenberg and a snapshot, see how well that works for you fat head.

And tell us more about modeling in science for another laugher.

[TSA]

Study of 96,000 Covid-19 Patients Finds Hydroxychloroquine Increased Their Risk of Dying

"The drug US President Donald Trump said he was taking to ward off Covid-19 actually increases the risk of patients with the disease dying from it (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-52779309)," reports the BBC, citing a new study published Friday in the Lancet.

"The study said there were no benefits to treating patients with the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine..."
Hydroxychloroquine is safe for malaria, and conditions like lupus or arthritis, but no clinical trials have recommended the use of hydroxychloroquine for coronavirus. The Lancet study involved 96,000 coronavirus patients, nearly 15,000 of whom were given hydroxychloroquine — or a related form chloroquine — either alone or with an antibiotic.

The study found that the patients were more likely to die in hospital and develop heart rhythm complications than other Covid patients in a comparison group. The death rates of the treated groups were: hydroxychloroquine 18%; chloroquine 16.4%; control group 9%. Those treated with hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine in combination with antibiotics had an even higher death rate.

The researchers warned that hydroxychloroquine should not be used outside of clinical trials.

The BBC also reports that a separate trial involving over 40,000 healthcare workers around the world is now testing whether hydroxychloroquine could prevent infection.

---

:lol DarrinS
:lol "safe" placebooops

https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1265987825016754176

[TSA]

lol every study is a database query. that's what science based on facts is all about.
lol attacking the people, not the facts

It was published as a study:
https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0140-6736%2820%2931180-6

what's flawed about that study? methodology is included there.

:rollin

[ElNono]

oops

https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1265987825016754176

hmm, the article doesn't say what the tweet claims... did you read the article?

[ElNono]

:rollin

:lol premature ball spiking per par

[ElNono]

Let me guess, you didn't read the article... gonna tell you the same thing I told SnakeBoy, if you find something wrong with the data, that's totally legit.

I didn't write the study, I don't have a stake in the outcome, and I certainly would love to have a working therapeutic treatment.

[TSA]

hmm, the article doesn't say what the tweet claims... did you read the article?

I did. Study was bunk. Apologize to Darrin.

“Dr Allen Cheng, an epidemiologist and infectious disease doctor with Alfred Health in Melbourne, said the Australian hospitals involved in the study should be named. He said he had never heard of Surgisphere, and no one from his hospital, The Alfred, had provided Surgisphere with data.”

“In a statement Surgisphere said it stood by the integrity of its data, saying all information from hospitals “is transferred in a deidentified manner” but could not be made public.”

[TSA]

Let me guess, you didn't read the article... gonna tell you the same thing I told SnakeBoy, if you find something wrong with the data, that's totally legit.

I didn't write the study, I don't have a stake in the outcome, and I certainly would love to have a working therapeutic treatment.

No shit you didn’t write the study but you did have a stake in trying to dunk on Darrin.


what’s flawed about that study?:rollin

[ElNono]

I did. Study was bunk. Apologize to Darrin.

“Dr Allen Cheng, an epidemiologist and infectious disease doctor with Alfred Health in Melbourne, said the Australian hospitals involved in the study should be named. He said he had never heard of Surgisphere, and no one from his hospital, The Alfred, had provided Surgisphere with data.”

“In a statement Surgisphere said it stood by the integrity of its data, saying all information from hospitals “is transferred in a deidentified manner” but could not be made public.”

He stressed that even if the paper proved to be problematic, it did not mean hydroxychloroquine was safe or effective in treating Covid-19. No strong studies to date have shown the drug is effective. Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine have potentially severe and even deadly side effects if used inappropriately, including heart failure and toxicity. Other studies have found the drug is associated with higher mortality when given to severely unwell Covid-19 patients.

In a statement Surgisphere said it stood by the integrity of its data, saying all information from hospitals “is transferred in a deidentified manner” but could not be made public.

“This requirement allows us to only maintain collaborations with top-tier institutions that are supported by the level of data-integrity and sophistication required for such work,” the statement said. “Naturally, this leads to the inclusion of institutions that have a tertiary care level of practice and provide quality healthcare that is relatively homogenous around the world. As with most corporations, the access to individual hospital data is strictly governed. Our data use agreements do not allow us to make this data public.”

Scientists have reiterated the need to wait for the results from rigorous randomised control trials, considered the gold standard of science, and the Australian Department of Health has warned the drug should not be given to patients other than in clinical trials.

Cheng said it would be a mistake to stop strong, well-designed clinical trials examining the drug because of questionable data. The Lancet study findings have prompted the leaders of an Australian hydroxychloroquine trial, known as the Ascot trial, to review the future of their study. The outcome of that review has not yet been announced.


emphasis mine.

[DMC]

Dishonest people avoid honest questions.

4th time
Do you think that available hospital space is important to considering how much to attempt to reduce the R0 value for any disease that might require hospitalization for some percentage of those affected with a disease? I will settle for a simple yes or no.

Why are you asking about what other people find important? Important for what? Are you trying to establish some moral superiority over your opponent here by setting up irrelevant, personal opinion questions?

For fuck's sake, can't you use words like "required" or "necessary" instead of "important"?

[ElNono]

No shit you didn’t write the study but you did have a stake in trying to dunk on Darrin.

lol I called him out on it because he's been peddling that thing with multiple studies pointing out it was ineffective or downright dangerous.

You should go back and read my back and forth with SnakeBoy about it

I'll completely own and apologize to him if this study turns out to be bunk, which is clearly not at this time.

[DMC]

He stressed that even if the paper proved to be problematic, it did not mean hydroxychloroquine was safe or effective in treating Covid-19. No strong studies to date have shown the drug is effective. Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine have potentially severe and even deadly side effects if used inappropriately, including heart failure and toxicity. Other studies have found the drug is associated with higher mortality when given to severely unwell Covid-19 patients.

In a statement Surgisphere said it stood by the integrity of its data, saying all information from hospitals “is transferred in a deidentified manner” but could not be made public.

“This requirement allows us to only maintain collaborations with top-tier institutions that are supported by the level of data-integrity and sophistication required for such work,” the statement said. “Naturally, this leads to the inclusion of institutions that have a tertiary care level of practice and provide quality healthcare that is relatively homogenous around the world. As with most corporations, the access to individual hospital data is strictly governed. Our data use agreements do not allow us to make this data public.”

Scientists have reiterated the need to wait for the results from rigorous randomised control trials, considered the gold standard of science, and the Australian Department of Health has warned the drug should not be given to patients other than in clinical trials.

Cheng said it would be a mistake to stop strong, well-designed clinical trials examining the drug because of questionable data. The Lancet study findings have prompted the leaders of an Australian hydroxychloroquine trial, known as the Ascot trial, to review the future of their study. The outcome of that review has not yet been announced.


emphasis mine.

Just a side note: Does it matter that an organization that you might suspect as having faulty data "stands beside" it? Of course they do. Circular reasoning to suggest that somehow helps validate it.

[TSA]

He stressed that even if the paper proved to be problematic, it did not mean hydroxychloroquine was safe or effective in treating Covid-19. No strong studies to date have shown the drug is effective. Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine have potentially severe and even deadly side effects if used inappropriately, including heart failure and toxicity. Other studies have found the drug is associated with higher mortality when given to severely unwell Covid-19 patients.

In a statement Surgisphere said it stood by the integrity of its data, saying all information from hospitals “is transferred in a deidentified manner” but could not be made public.

“This requirement allows us to only maintain collaborations with top-tier institutions that are supported by the level of data-integrity and sophistication required for such work,” the statement said. “Naturally, this leads to the inclusion of institutions that have a tertiary care level of practice and provide quality healthcare that is relatively homogenous around the world. As with most corporations, the access to individual hospital data is strictly governed. Our data use agreements do not allow us to make this data public.”

Scientists have reiterated the need to wait for the results from rigorous randomised control trials, considered the gold standard of science, and the Australian Department of Health has warned the drug should not be given to patients other than in clinical trials.

Cheng said it would be a mistake to stop strong, well-designed clinical trials examining the drug because of questionable data. The Lancet study findings have prompted the leaders of an Australian hydroxychloroquine trial, known as the Ascot trial, to review the future of their study. The outcome of that review has not yet been announced.


emphasis mine.

https://defyccc.com/surgisphere-covid-19-tools-are-deadly-fraud/

:lol surgisphere

https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1266061879002247169

[ElNono]

Just a side note: Does it matter that an organization that you might suspect as having faulty data "stands beside" it? Of course they do. Circular reasoning to suggest that somehow helps validate it.

It does in that if there's some discrepancy, does it point to those discrepancies being an outlier, like in most every data set, or is the whole thing bunk? And that's what Chen questions, but obviously, cannot be answered if you don't have the data.

The data is not going to come out, the question here is if there's enough discrepancies to asses the data is wrong. That shouldn't be too difficult to asses.

Then, again, this is not the only study reaching similar conclusions, just the largest.

[TSA]

lol I called him out on it because he's been peddling that thing with multiple studies pointing out it was ineffective or downright dangerous.

You should go back and read my back and forth with SnakeBoy about it

I'll completely own and apologize to him if this study turns out to be bunk, which is clearly not at this time.

Turns out to be? :lol

[spurraider21]

I did. Study was bunk. Apologize to Darrin.

“Dr Allen Cheng, an epidemiologist and infectious disease doctor with Alfred Health in Melbourne, said the Australian hospitals involved in the study should be named. He said he had never heard of Surgisphere, and no one from his hospital, The Alfred, had provided Surgisphere with data.”

“In a statement Surgisphere said it stood by the integrity of its data, saying all information from hospitals “is transferred in a deidentified manner” but could not be made public.”
i'd still wait for the paper's authors to come out with either a statement of clarification or revisions, if necessary, than calling the entire study bunk because some of the data used was potentially faulty. there's no way to determine with the information available to us if any necessary revisions would alter the findings/conclusions

The Lancet told Guardian Australia: “We have asked the authors for clarifications, we know that they are investigating urgently, and we await their reply.” The lead author of the study, Dr Mandeep Mehra, said he had contacted Surgisphere, the company that provided the data, to reconcile the discrepancies with “the utmost urgency”. Surgisphere is described as a healthcare data analytics and medical education company.

In a statement, Surgisphere founder Dr Sapan Desai, also an author on the Lancet paper, said a hospital from Asia had accidentally been included in the Australian data.

“We have reviewed our Surgisphere database and discovered that a new hospital that joined the registry on April 1, and self-designated as belonging to the Australasia continental designation,” the spokesman said. “In reviewing the data from each of the hospitals in the registry, we noted that this hospital had a nearly 100% composition of Asian race and a relatively high use of chloroquine compared to non-use in Australia. This hospital should have more appropriately been assigned to the Asian continental designation.”

He said the error did not change the overall study findings. It did mean that the Australian data in the paper would be revised to four hospitals and 63 deaths,.

[ElNono]

https://defyccc.com/surgisphere-covid-19-tools-are-deadly-fraud/

:lol surgisphere

:lol defyccc.com

Give me a scientific paper that says the study is bunk, not a political blog

[TSA]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1266082506320891906

[ElNono]

Turns out to be? :lol

lol yes, you didn't debunk anything

[ElNono]

:lol Trumptards doubling down on stupid, not expected at all

[TSA]

:lol defyccc.com

Give me a scientific paper that says the study is bunk, not a political blog

You posted a bunk study, it happens to everyone now and then. Take the L and apologize to Darrin and move on. :bobo

[ElNono]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1266082506320891906

:lmao open letter, that's showing them

[TSA]

i'd still wait for the paper's authors to come out with either a statement of clarification or revisions, if necessary, than calling the entire study bunk because some of the data used was potentially faulty. there's no way to determine with the information available to us if any necessary revisions would alter the findings/conclusions

The Lancet told Guardian Australia: “We have asked the authors for clarifications, we know that they are investigating urgently, and we await their reply.” The lead author of the study, Dr Mandeep Mehra, said he had contacted Surgisphere, the company that provided the data, to reconcile the discrepancies with “the utmost urgency”. Surgisphere is described as a healthcare data analytics and medical education company.

In a statement, Surgisphere founder Dr Sapan Desai, also an author on the Lancet paper, said a hospital from Asia had accidentally been included in the Australian data.

“We have reviewed our Surgisphere database and discovered that a new hospital that joined the registry on April 1, and self-designated as belonging to the Australasia continental designation,” the spokesman said. “In reviewing the data from each of the hospitals in the registry, we noted that this hospital had a nearly 100% composition of Asian race and a relatively high use of chloroquine compared to non-use in Australia. This hospital should have more appropriately been assigned to the Asian continental designation.”

He said the error did not change the overall study findings. It did mean that the Australian data in the paper would be revised to four hospitals and 63 deaths,.

Nono doesn’t need you to semenshield for him

[ElNono]

You posted a bunk study, it happens to everyone now and then. Take the L and apologize to Darrin and move on. :bobo

Nope, I posted a published study that's not been retracted nor debunked. I'll take the L and apologize when it is.

In the meantime, I'm going to bask in the glory of my W.

[ElNono]

Nono doesn’t need you to semenshield for him

He's just telling you you're wrong. Will you own up to it?

[spurraider21]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1266082506320891906
Todaro isn't an impartial arbiter when it comes to hydrochloroquine... read about him a bit

[TSA]

He's just telling you you're wrong. Will you own up to it?

Wrong about what? I’m not the one who touted the bunk study.

[TSA]

Todaro isn't an impartial arbiter when it comes to hydrochloroquine... read about him a bit

Todaro didn’t write the article in the Guardian.

[ElNono]

Wrong about what? I’m not the one who touted the bunk study.

You touted the fake news that it was bunk, when it clearly is not (at least not yet, even expressed by Chen himself). Will you own up that you jumped the gun?

[ElNono]

I tell you what, I'll stand by my promise of apologizing and owning any mistakes if this study is retracted as having misleading data, or for any other reason. I'll honor it, that's the right thing to do.

That works for you? I'm not even asking you admit to posting fake news. This is all political for you, it isn't for me.

[TSA]

You touted the fake news that it was bunk, when it clearly is not (at least not yet, even expressed by Chen himself). Will you own up that you jumped the gun?

It’s bunk and you touted it. Own it.


what’s flawed about that study?

1.There wasinadequate adjustment for known and measured confounders (disease severity, temporal effects, site effects, dose used).

2.The authors have not adhered to standard practices in the machine learning and statistics community. They have not releasedtheir code or data. There is no data/code sharing and availability statement in the paper. The Lancet was among the many signatories on the Wellcome statementon data sharing for COVID-19 studies.

3.There was noethics review.

4.There was no mention of the countries or hospitals that contributed to the data sourceandno acknowledgments to their contributions.A request to the authors for information on the contributing centres was denied.

5.Data from Australia are not compatible with government reports (too many cases for just five hospitals, more in-hospital deaths than had occurred in the entire country during the study period). Surgisphere (the data company) have since statedthis was an error of classificationof one hospital from Asia.Thisindicates the need for further error checking throughout thedatabase.

6.Data from Africa indicate thatnearly 25% of all COVID-19 cases and 40% of all deaths in the continentoccurred in Surgisphere-associated hospitals which had sophisticated electronic patient data recording, and patient monitoring able to detect and record “nonsustained [at least 6 secs] or sustained ventricular tachycardia or ventricularfibrillation”. Both the numbers of cases and deaths, and the detailed data collection, seem unlikely.

7.Unusually small reported variances in baseline variables, interventions and outcomes between continents(Table S3)

8.Mean daily doses of hydroxychloroquine that are 100 mg higher than FDA recommendations, whereas 66% of the data are from North American hospitals.

9.Implausible ratios of chloroquine to hydroxychloroquine use in some continents

10.The tight 95% confidence intervals reported for the hazard ratios are unlikely. For instance,for the Australiandatathis would need about double the numbers of recorded deathsas were reported in the pape

[ElNono]

It’s bunk and you touted it. Own it.

Nobody in the article you posted claimed it's bunk. I dare you to quote that article YOU posted as evidence that there's a claim the study is bunk.



1.There wasinadequate adjustment for known and measured confounders (disease severity, temporal effects, site effects, dose used).

2.The authors have not adhered to standard practices in the machine learning and statistics community. They have not releasedtheir code or data. There is no data/code sharing and availability statement in the paper. The Lancet was among the many signatories on the Wellcome statementon data sharing for COVID-19 studies.

3.There was noethics review.

4.There was no mention of the countries or hospitals that contributed to the data sourceandno acknowledgments to their contributions.A request to the authors for information on the contributing centres was denied.

5.Data from Australia are not compatible with government reports (too many cases for just five hospitals, more in-hospital deaths than had occurred in the entire country during the study period). Surgisphere (the data company) have since statedthis was an error of classificationof one hospital from Asia.Thisindicates the need for further error checking throughout thedatabase.

6.Data from Africa indicate thatnearly 25% of all COVID-19 cases and 40% of all deaths in the continentoccurred in Surgisphere-associated hospitals which had sophisticated electronic patient data recording, and patient monitoring able to detect and record “nonsustained [at least 6 secs] or sustained ventricular tachycardia or ventricularfibrillation”. Both the numbers of cases and deaths, and the detailed data collection, seem unlikely.

7.Unusually small reported variances in baseline variables, interventions and outcomes between continents(Table S3)

8.Mean daily doses of hydroxychloroquine that are 100 mg higher than FDA recommendations, whereas 66% of the data are from North American hospitals.

9.Implausible ratios of chloroquine to hydroxychloroquine use in some continents

10.The tight 95% confidence intervals reported for the hazard ratios are unlikely. For instance,for the Australiandatathis would need about double the numbers of recorded deathsas were reported in the pape

Can you source this? I know you didn't come up with this, you barely read the article you yourself posted.

[ElNono]

:lol I'm pretty sure I know why you didn't source all that, but let's see if my theory is correct

[spurraider21]

its in the link from the Todaro tweet

[ElNono]

its in the link from the Todaro tweet

You mean the letter that asks for clarification, but doesn't actually claim the study or results are bunk... thanks

[TSA]

:lol I'm pretty sure I know why you didn't source all that, but let's see if my theory is correct

List of SignatoriesDr James Watson (Statistician, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)1Professor Amanda Adler (Trialist & Clinician, Director of the Diabetes Trials Unit, UK)DrRavi Amaravadi (Researcher,University of Pennsylvania, USA)Dr Ambrose Agweyu (Medical researcher, KEMRI-Wellcome Trust Research Programme, Kenya)Professor MichaelAvidan(Clinician, Washington University in St Louis, USA)Professor Nicholas Anstey (Clinician, Menzies School of Health Research, Australia)Dr Yaseen Arabi (Clinician, King Saud Bin Abdulaziz University for Health Sciences, Saudi Arabia)Dr Elizabeth Ashley (Clinician, Director of the Lao-Oxford-Mahosot Hospital-Wellcome Trust Research Unit, Laos) Professor Kevin Baird (Researcher, Headof the Eijkman-Oxford Clinical Research Unit, Indonesia)Professor Francois Balloux (Researcher, Director of the UCL Genetics Institute, UK)Dr Clifford George Banda (Clinician, University of Cape Town, South Africa) Dr Edwine Barasa(Health economist, KEMRI-Wellcome Trust Research Programme, Kenya) Professor Karen Barnes (Clinical Pharmacology, University of Cape Town, South Africa)Professor David Boulware (Researcher& Triallist, University of Minnesota, USA)Professor Buddha Basnyat (Clinician, Head of the Oxford University Clinical Research Unit -Nepal, Nepal)Professor Philip Bejon (Medical researcher, Director of the KEMRI-Wellcome Trust Research Programme, Kenya)Professor Mohammad Asim Beg(Clinician/Researcher, Aga Khan University,Pakistan)Professor Emmanuel Bottieau (Clinician, Institute of Tropical Medicine, Antwerp, Belgium)Dr Sabine Braat (Statistician, University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Frank Brunkhorst (Clinician, Jena University Hospital, Germany)Dr Todd Campbell Lee (Researcher, McGill University, Canada)Professor Caroline Buckee (Epidemiologist, Harvard TH Chan School of Public Health, USA)Dr James Callery (Clinician, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Professor John Carlin (Statistician, University of Melbourne & Murdoch Children’s Research Institute, Australia)Dr Nomathemba Chandiwana (Research Clinician, University of the Witwatersrand, South Africa)Dr Arjun Chandna (Clinician, Cambodia Oxford Medical Research Unit, Cambodia)Professor PhaikYeong Cheah (Ethicist/Pharmacist, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Professor Allen Cheng (Clinician, Monash University, Australia)Professor Leonid Churilov (Statistician, University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Ben Cooper (Epidemiologist, University of Oxford, UK)Dr Cintia Cruz (PaediatricianMahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Professor Bart Currie (Director, HOT NORTH, Menzies School of Health Research, Australia)Professor Joshua Davis (Clinician, President of the Australasian Society for Infectious Diseases, Australia)Dr Jeremy Day (Clinician, Oxford University Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)Professor Nicholas Day (Clinician,Director of the Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Dr Hakim-Moulay Dehbi (Statistician, University College London, UK)Dr Justin Denholm (Clinician, Researcher, Ethicist, Doherty Institute, Australia)DrLennie Derde (Intensivist/Researcher, University Medical Center Utrecht, The Netherlands)Professor Keertan Dheda (Clinician/Researcher, University of Cape Town,& Groote Schuur Hospital, South Africa)Dr Mehul Dhorda (Clinical Researcher, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand) Professor Annane Djillali (Dean of the School of Medicine,Simone Veil Université,France)Professor Arjen Dondorp (Clinician, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Dr Joseph Doyle (Clinician, Monash University and Burnet Institute, Australia)Dr Anthony Etyang (Medical Researcher, KEMRI-Wellcome Trust Research Programme, Kenya)Dr Caterina Fanello (Epidemiologist, University of Oxford, UK)Professor Neil Ferguson (Epidemiologist, Imperial College London, UK)ProfessorAndrew Forbes (Statistician, Monash University, Melbourne, Australia)Professor Oumar Gaye (Clinical Researcher, University Cheikh Anta Diop, Senegal)Dr Ronald Geskus (Head of Statistics at theOxford University Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)Professor Dave Glidden(Biostatistics, University of California, USA)Professor Azra Ghani (Epidemiologist, Imperial College London, UK)Prof Philippe Guerin (Medical researcher, University of Oxford, UK)Dr. Raph Hamers (Clinician/Trialist, Eijkman-OxfordClinical Research Unit, Indonesia)Professor Peter Horby (Clinical Researcher, Centre for Tropical Medicine and Global Health, University of Oxford)DrJens-Ulrik Jensen (Clinician/Trialist, University of Copenhagen, Denmark)Dr Hilary Johnstone (Clinical Research Physician, Independent)Professor Kevin Kain (Clinical Researcher, University of Toronto, Canada)Dr Sharon Kaur (Ethicist, University of Malaysia. Dr Evelyne Kestelyn (Head of Clinical Trials, Oxford University Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)Dr Tan Le Van (Medical Researcher,Oxford University Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)ProfessorKatherine Lee (Statistician, University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Laurence Lovat (Clinical Director of Wellcome EPSRC Centre for Interventional & Surgical Sciences, UCL, UK)Professor Kathryn Maitland (Clinician, Imperial College London/KEMRI Wellcome Trust Programme, Kenya)Dr Julie Marsh (Statistician, Telethon Kids Institute, Australia)Professor John Marshall (Clinician/Researcher,University of Toronto, Canada)Dr Gary Maartens (Clinician, University of Cape Town, South Africa)Professor Mayfong Mayxay (Clinician/Researcher, Lao-Oxford-Mahosot Hospital-Wellcome Trust Research Unit, Laos)Dr John McKinnon(Clinician/Researcher, Wayne State University, USA)Dr Laura Merson (Clinical researcher, University of Oxford, UK)Dr Alistair McLean (Medical researcher, University of Oxford, UK)Professor Ramani Moonesinghe(Clinician researcher, UniversityCollege London, UK)Professor Bryan McVerry (Medical researcher, University of Pittsburgh, USA)Professor William Meurer (Clinician/Medical researcher, University of Michigan, USA)Dr Kerryn Moore (Epidemiologist, London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, UK)Dr Rephaim Mpofu (Clinician, University of Cape Town, South Africa) Dr Mavuto Mukaka (Statistician, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand) Dr SrinivasMurthy (Clinical Researcher, University of British Columbia, Canada)Professor Kim Mulholland (Clinician, London School of Hygiene &Tropical Medicine, UK)Professor Alistair Nichol (Clinician Researcher, Monash University, Australia)Professor Francois Nosten (Clinician, Director of the Shoklo Malaria Research Unit, Thailand)Dr Matthew O’Sullivan (Clinician, Westmead Hospital & University of Sydney, Australia)Professor Piero Olliaro (Clinical Researcher, University of Oxford, UK)ProfessorMarie Onyamboko (Clinical researcher, Kinshasa School of Public Health, DRC)Dr Marcin Osuchowski (Medical researcher, Ludwig Boltzmann Institute, Austria)Professor Catherine Orrell (ClinicalPharmacologist, University of Cape Town, South Africa)ProfessorJean Bosco Ouedraogo (Medical Researcher, WWARN, Burkina Faso)DrElaine Pascoe (Statistician, University of Queensland, Australia)Professor David Paterson (Clinician, Director, UQ Centre for Clinical Research, Australia)Dr Kajaal Patel (Paediatrician, Cambodia Oxford Medical Research Unit, Cambodia)Dr Tom Parke(Statistician, Berry Consultants, UK)ProfessorPhilippe Parola (Researcher, Aix-Marseille University, France)Professor Paul Newton (Clinician, University Oxford, UK)Professor David Price (Statistician, Doherty Institute & University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Richard Price (Clinician,Menzies School of Health Research, Australia)Professor Sasithon Pukrittayakamee (Clinician, Mahidol University, Thailand)Dr Ben Saville (Statistician, Berry Consultants & Vanderbilt University)Professor Jason Roberts (Pharmacist/Clinician, The University of Queensland, Australia) Professor Stephen Rogerson (Clinician, University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Kathy Rowan (Researcher, Director of the ICNARC Clinical Trials Unit, UK)Dr William Schilling (Clinician, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Dr Anuraj Shankar(Clinician/Trialist, Eijkman-OxfordClinical Research Unit, Indonesia)Professor Sanjib Kumar Sharma (Clinician, Koirala Institute of Health Sciences, Nepal)Professor Julie Simpson (Statistician,University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Frank Smithuis (Clinical researcher, Director of the Myanmar Oxford Tropical Research Unit, Myanmar)Dr Tim Spelman (Statistician, Burnet Institute, Australia) Dr Kasia Stepniewska (Statistician, University of Oxford, UK)Dr Nathalie Strub Wourgaft (Clinician, Drugs for Neglected Diseases initiative, Switzerland)Dr Aimee Taylor (Statistician, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, USA)DrWalter Taylor (Clinician, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Professor Guy Thwaites (Clinician, Director of the Oxford University Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)Professor Tran Tinh Hien (Clinician, Oxford Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)Professor Steven Tong (Clinician, University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Paul Turner (Clinician/Researcher, Director of Cambodia Oxford Medical Research Unit, Cambodia)Professor Ross Upshur(Head ofDivision of Clinical Public Health, University of Toronto, Canada)Professor Rogier van Doorn (Clinical Microbiologist, University of Oxford, UK)Professor Sir Nicholas White (Clinician,Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Professor Thomas Williams (Clinician, KEMRI-Wellcome Trust Research Programme, Kenya)Professor Chris Woods (Researcher, Duke University, USA)Dr Sophie Yacoub (Clinician, Oxford University Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)Professor Marcus Zervos(Researcher, Wayne State University School of Medicine.

[ElNono]

List of SignatoriesDr James Watson (Statistician, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)1Professor Amanda Adler (Trialist & Clinician, Director of the Diabetes Trials Unit, UK)DrRavi Amaravadi (Researcher,University of Pennsylvania, USA)Dr Ambrose Agweyu (Medical researcher, KEMRI-Wellcome Trust Research Programme, Kenya)Professor MichaelAvidan(Clinician, Washington University in St Louis, USA)Professor Nicholas Anstey (Clinician, Menzies School of Health Research, Australia)Dr Yaseen Arabi (Clinician, King Saud Bin Abdulaziz University for Health Sciences, Saudi Arabia)Dr Elizabeth Ashley (Clinician, Director of the Lao-Oxford-Mahosot Hospital-Wellcome Trust Research Unit, Laos) Professor Kevin Baird (Researcher, Headof the Eijkman-Oxford Clinical Research Unit, Indonesia)Professor Francois Balloux (Researcher, Director of the UCL Genetics Institute, UK)Dr Clifford George Banda (Clinician, University of Cape Town, South Africa) Dr Edwine Barasa(Health economist, KEMRI-Wellcome Trust Research Programme, Kenya) Professor Karen Barnes (Clinical Pharmacology, University of Cape Town, South Africa)Professor David Boulware (Researcher& Triallist, University of Minnesota, USA)Professor Buddha Basnyat (Clinician, Head of the Oxford University Clinical Research Unit -Nepal, Nepal)Professor Philip Bejon (Medical researcher, Director of the KEMRI-Wellcome Trust Research Programme, Kenya)Professor Mohammad Asim Beg(Clinician/Researcher, Aga Khan University,Pakistan)Professor Emmanuel Bottieau (Clinician, Institute of Tropical Medicine, Antwerp, Belgium)Dr Sabine Braat (Statistician, University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Frank Brunkhorst (Clinician, Jena University Hospital, Germany)Dr Todd Campbell Lee (Researcher, McGill University, Canada)Professor Caroline Buckee (Epidemiologist, Harvard TH Chan School of Public Health, USA)Dr James Callery (Clinician, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Professor John Carlin (Statistician, University of Melbourne & Murdoch Children’s Research Institute, Australia)Dr Nomathemba Chandiwana (Research Clinician, University of the Witwatersrand, South Africa)Dr Arjun Chandna (Clinician, Cambodia Oxford Medical Research Unit, Cambodia)Professor PhaikYeong Cheah (Ethicist/Pharmacist, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Professor Allen Cheng (Clinician, Monash University, Australia)Professor Leonid Churilov (Statistician, University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Ben Cooper (Epidemiologist, University of Oxford, UK)Dr Cintia Cruz (PaediatricianMahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Professor Bart Currie (Director, HOT NORTH, Menzies School of Health Research, Australia)Professor Joshua Davis (Clinician, President of the Australasian Society for Infectious Diseases, Australia)Dr Jeremy Day (Clinician, Oxford University Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)Professor Nicholas Day (Clinician,Director of the Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Dr Hakim-Moulay Dehbi (Statistician, University College London, UK)Dr Justin Denholm (Clinician, Researcher, Ethicist, Doherty Institute, Australia)DrLennie Derde (Intensivist/Researcher, University Medical Center Utrecht, The Netherlands)Professor Keertan Dheda (Clinician/Researcher, University of Cape Town,& Groote Schuur Hospital, South Africa)Dr Mehul Dhorda (Clinical Researcher, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand) Professor Annane Djillali (Dean of the School of Medicine,Simone Veil Université,France)Professor Arjen Dondorp (Clinician, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Dr Joseph Doyle (Clinician, Monash University and Burnet Institute, Australia)Dr Anthony Etyang (Medical Researcher, KEMRI-Wellcome Trust Research Programme, Kenya)Dr Caterina Fanello (Epidemiologist, University of Oxford, UK)Professor Neil Ferguson (Epidemiologist, Imperial College London, UK)ProfessorAndrew Forbes (Statistician, Monash University, Melbourne, Australia)Professor Oumar Gaye (Clinical Researcher, University Cheikh Anta Diop, Senegal)Dr Ronald Geskus (Head of Statistics at theOxford University Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)Professor Dave Glidden(Biostatistics, University of California, USA)Professor Azra Ghani (Epidemiologist, Imperial College London, UK)Prof Philippe Guerin (Medical researcher, University of Oxford, UK)Dr. Raph Hamers (Clinician/Trialist, Eijkman-OxfordClinical Research Unit, Indonesia)Professor Peter Horby (Clinical Researcher, Centre for Tropical Medicine and Global Health, University of Oxford)DrJens-Ulrik Jensen (Clinician/Trialist, University of Copenhagen, Denmark)Dr Hilary Johnstone (Clinical Research Physician, Independent)Professor Kevin Kain (Clinical Researcher, University of Toronto, Canada)Dr Sharon Kaur (Ethicist, University of Malaysia. Dr Evelyne Kestelyn (Head of Clinical Trials, Oxford University Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)Dr Tan Le Van (Medical Researcher,Oxford University Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)ProfessorKatherine Lee (Statistician, University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Laurence Lovat (Clinical Director of Wellcome EPSRC Centre for Interventional & Surgical Sciences, UCL, UK)Professor Kathryn Maitland (Clinician, Imperial College London/KEMRI Wellcome Trust Programme, Kenya)Dr Julie Marsh (Statistician, Telethon Kids Institute, Australia)Professor John Marshall (Clinician/Researcher,University of Toronto, Canada)Dr Gary Maartens (Clinician, University of Cape Town, South Africa)Professor Mayfong Mayxay (Clinician/Researcher, Lao-Oxford-Mahosot Hospital-Wellcome Trust Research Unit, Laos)Dr John McKinnon(Clinician/Researcher, Wayne State University, USA)Dr Laura Merson (Clinical researcher, University of Oxford, UK)Dr Alistair McLean (Medical researcher, University of Oxford, UK)Professor Ramani Moonesinghe(Clinician researcher, UniversityCollege London, UK)Professor Bryan McVerry (Medical researcher, University of Pittsburgh, USA)Professor William Meurer (Clinician/Medical researcher, University of Michigan, USA)Dr Kerryn Moore (Epidemiologist, London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, UK)Dr Rephaim Mpofu (Clinician, University of Cape Town, South Africa) Dr Mavuto Mukaka (Statistician, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand) Dr SrinivasMurthy (Clinical Researcher, University of British Columbia, Canada)Professor Kim Mulholland (Clinician, London School of Hygiene &Tropical Medicine, UK)Professor Alistair Nichol (Clinician Researcher, Monash University, Australia)Professor Francois Nosten (Clinician, Director of the Shoklo Malaria Research Unit, Thailand)Dr Matthew O’Sullivan (Clinician, Westmead Hospital & University of Sydney, Australia)Professor Piero Olliaro (Clinical Researcher, University of Oxford, UK)ProfessorMarie Onyamboko (Clinical researcher, Kinshasa School of Public Health, DRC)Dr Marcin Osuchowski (Medical researcher, Ludwig Boltzmann Institute, Austria)Professor Catherine Orrell (ClinicalPharmacologist, University of Cape Town, South Africa)ProfessorJean Bosco Ouedraogo (Medical Researcher, WWARN, Burkina Faso)DrElaine Pascoe (Statistician, University of Queensland, Australia)Professor David Paterson (Clinician, Director, UQ Centre for Clinical Research, Australia)Dr Kajaal Patel (Paediatrician, Cambodia Oxford Medical Research Unit, Cambodia)Dr Tom Parke(Statistician, Berry Consultants, UK)ProfessorPhilippe Parola (Researcher, Aix-Marseille University, France)Professor Paul Newton (Clinician, University Oxford, UK)Professor David Price (Statistician, Doherty Institute & University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Richard Price (Clinician,Menzies School of Health Research, Australia)Professor Sasithon Pukrittayakamee (Clinician, Mahidol University, Thailand)Dr Ben Saville (Statistician, Berry Consultants & Vanderbilt University)Professor Jason Roberts (Pharmacist/Clinician, The University of Queensland, Australia) Professor Stephen Rogerson (Clinician, University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Kathy Rowan (Researcher, Director of the ICNARC Clinical Trials Unit, UK)Dr William Schilling (Clinician, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Dr Anuraj Shankar(Clinician/Trialist, Eijkman-OxfordClinical Research Unit, Indonesia)Professor Sanjib Kumar Sharma (Clinician, Koirala Institute of Health Sciences, Nepal)Professor Julie Simpson (Statistician,University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Frank Smithuis (Clinical researcher, Director of the Myanmar Oxford Tropical Research Unit, Myanmar)Dr Tim Spelman (Statistician, Burnet Institute, Australia) Dr Kasia Stepniewska (Statistician, University of Oxford, UK)Dr Nathalie Strub Wourgaft (Clinician, Drugs for Neglected Diseases initiative, Switzerland)Dr Aimee Taylor (Statistician, Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, USA)DrWalter Taylor (Clinician, Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Professor Guy Thwaites (Clinician, Director of the Oxford University Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)Professor Tran Tinh Hien (Clinician, Oxford Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)Professor Steven Tong (Clinician, University of Melbourne, Australia)Professor Paul Turner (Clinician/Researcher, Director of Cambodia Oxford Medical Research Unit, Cambodia)Professor Ross Upshur(Head ofDivision of Clinical Public Health, University of Toronto, Canada)Professor Rogier van Doorn (Clinical Microbiologist, University of Oxford, UK)Professor Sir Nicholas White (Clinician,Mahidol Oxford Tropical Medicine Research Unit, Thailand)Professor Thomas Williams (Clinician, KEMRI-Wellcome Trust Research Programme, Kenya)Professor Chris Woods (Researcher, Duke University, USA)Dr Sophie Yacoub (Clinician, Oxford University Clinical Research Unit, Vietnam)Professor Marcus Zervos(Researcher, Wayne State University School of Medicine.

I saw the letter. I'll admit my theory was INCORRECT :lol

Will you admit the letter doesn't claim the study is bunk?

[RandomGuy]

Wait, so you have to decide which information is true by sifting through until you find something you agree with? That's what people here do everyday.. RG keeps dropping articles from confirmation bias hits on his echo chamber radar.


It is possible to advocate for any given view point by only posting information that does not support that viewpoint? Yes or no.


Can you go back and fuck your mother some more yes or no?

Instant surrender. I accept, but am not going to let you off the hook.

Let's be honest here, and try a good faith answer.

No, it is not possible to advocate for any given view point by only posting information that does not support that view point.

I post things that support my viewpoint to make a good case for my views. Occasionally they get challenged, and I am provided with better information and then have an opportunity to change my mind, therefore overcoming my own confirmation bias. I actively work to not be in any kind of echo chamber.

You, on the other hand, go out of your way to avoid anything that might question your beliefs. Deflections like your surrender here, or simple personal attacks, often accompanied by strawman lies.

Which of us is in an echo chamber? smh

[TSA]

I saw the letter. I'll admit my theory was INCORRECT :lol

Will you admit the letter doesn't claim the study is bunk?

I will not admit to something I never claimed.

I posted the letter to mock you asking what was wrong with the study.

[RandomGuy]

Dishonest people avoid honest questions.

4th time
Do you think that available hospital space is important to considering how much to attempt to reduce the R0 value for any disease that might require hospitalization for some percentage of those affected with a disease? I will settle for a simple yes or no.


Why are you asking about what other people find important? Important for what? Are you trying to establish some moral superiority over your opponent here by setting up irrelevant, personal opinion questions?

For fuck's sake, can't you use words like "required" or "necessary" instead of "important"?



[from passage about how to identify liars]
... Finally, ..increased evasiveness, ... liars tend to avoid answering the question completely, perhaps by switching topics or by asking a question of their own.

:lol

[ElNono]

I will not admit to something I never claimed.

I posted the letter to mock you asking what was wrong with the study.

You claimed the study was bunk (multiple times), and neither of the two things you posted to support that contention make that claim themselves.

Will you admit you jumped the gun and that there's no current claims that the study is bunk? It's ok, we already know the answer.

[RandomGuy]

You posted a bunk study, it happens to everyone now and then. Take the L and apologize to Darrin and move on. :bobo

Which statement in that latter rebuts any claim made by the study?

[ElNono]

Anyways, I'll be happy to honor my commitment to apologize if the study is retracted, and the drug is deemed a viable treatment. Again, this isn't political to me, I want as much as everybody else to find a safe and sound treatment for the disease.

I do find irresponsible peddling snake oil that's ineffective and dangerous because muh politics. Same thing I told SnakeBoy a while ago.

[TSA]

Which statement in that latter rebuts any claim made by the study?

I never claimed any statement in that letter rebuts any claim made in that study. Now run along.

[TSA]

You claimed the study was bunk (multiple times), and neither of the two things you posted to support that contention make that claim themselves.

Will you admit you jumped the gun and that there's no current claims that the study is bunk? It's ok, we already know the answer.

The data was fubar and the study is bunk. I stand by that.

[TSA]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1266108861259210753

https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1266119554142437376

[DMC]

You and a few others here like to move the goalposts every other response. You keep trying to lodge a "w" from the discussion, and you abandon your prior statements in favor of new ones in a "ya but" fashion. No one is obligated to follow your descent into oblivion. Give up your original statements then move on to other ones, don't just pretend you never made such claims.


Instant surrender. I accept, but am not going to let you off the hook.

Let's be honest here, and try a good faith answer.

No, it is not possible to advocate for any given view point by only posting information that does not support that view point.

I post things that support my viewpoint to make a good case for my views. Occasionally they get challenged, and I am provided with better information and then have an opportunity to change my mind, therefore overcoming my own confirmation bias. I actively work to not be in any kind of echo chamber.

You, on the other hand, go out of your way to avoid anything that might question your beliefs. Deflections like your surrender here, or simple personal attacks, often accompanied by strawman lies.

Which of us is in an echo chamber? smh
That's a lot of yapping to say you're biased and you look for confirmation for your bias through the sites you visit, and have zero fucking clue about real news. You should stop commenting on it like you're some oracle of objectivity.

[Blake]

That's a lot of yapping to say you're biased and you look for confirmation for your bias through the sites you visit, and have zero fucking clue about real news. You should stop commenting on it like you're some oracle of objectivity.

That's rich

[DMC]

Your flailing attempt at connecting unrelated things...

It's either necessary or it's not. "Important" is a value judgement.

[ElNono]

The data was fubar and the study is bunk. I stand by that.

Are you standing on that based on a gut feeling, or just overall butthurtness that it contradicts dear leader, tbh?

[ElNono]

(rhetorical question)

[TSA]

Are you standing on that based on a gut feeling, or just overall butthurtness that it contradicts dear leader, tbh?

https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1266108861259210753

https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1266119554142437376

Feel free to argue the data is legit.

[ElNono]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1266108861259210753

https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1266119554142437376

Feel free to argue the data is legit.

I don't have to. There's zero claims there that the data and/or study is not legit.

You didn't answer, are you standing on that based on a gut feeling, or just overall butthurtness that it contradicts dear leader, tbh?

[ElNono]

It's ok, you don't have to answer :lol

[pgardn]

I dont get why these Trumptards keep going after taking it on the chin.
Resentful ignorance followed by unyielding wrong.
Our president has had an impact on the dull.

[benefactor]

It's ok, you don't have to answer :lol
He never answers directly about anything. He's the conservative Chumpdumper. As soon as he's painted in a corner he just moves the goalposts to keep from admitting he's wrong.

[Reck]

He never answers directly about anything. He's the conservative Chumpdumper. As soon as he's painted in a corner he just moves the goalposts to keep from admitting he's wrong.

Harsh comparison, tbh.

Chump doesn't try to demean or laughs nervously about serious injustices like TSA loves to do.

Gotta get that W at any cost.

[benefactor]

Harsh comparison, tbh.

Chump doesn't try to demean or laughs nervously about serious injustices like TSA loves to do.

Gotta get that W at any cost.
Eh, the details my differ slightly but their MO is the same.

[ducks]

https://youtu.be/TYIVspoodUM

Lol dr says half of what is record is the truth about deaths

[benefactor]

https://youtu.be/TYIVspoodUM

Lol dr says half of what is record is the truth about deaths
Lol not watching it because you're a well documented faggot

[TheGreatYacht]

https://mobile.twitter.com/PatriotUSA4201/status/1266181816819515392

[tholdren]

All of the open states still have less problems than nyc. Florida, Georgia... doing great. Its like lockdowns didn't do anything.

[TSA]

I don't have to. There's zero claims there that the data and/or study is not legit.

You didn't answer, are you standing on that based on a gut feeling, or just overall butthurtness that it contradicts dear leader, tbh?

There’s literally 120 MDs, researchers, statisticians, epidemiologists & ethicists from 24 countries claiming the data isn’t legit. I’m standing on neither of your choices and defer to people well more qualified than you.


1.There wasinadequate adjustment for known and measured confounders (disease severity, temporal effects, site effects, dose used).

2.The authors have not adhered to standard practices in the machine learning and statistics community. They have not releasedtheir code or data. There is no data/code sharing and availability statement in the paper. The Lancet was among the many signatories on the Wellcome statementon data sharing for COVID-19 studies.

3.There was noethics review.

4.There was no mention of the countries or hospitals that contributed to the data sourceandno acknowledgments to their contributions.A request to the authors for information on the contributing centres was denied.

5.Data from Australia are not compatible with government reports (too many cases for just five hospitals, more in-hospital deaths than had occurred in the entire country during the study period). Surgisphere (the data company) have since statedthis was an error of classificationof one hospital from Asia.Thisindicates the need for further error checking throughout thedatabase.

6.Data from Africa indicate thatnearly 25% of all COVID-19 cases and 40% of all deaths in the continentoccurred in Surgisphere-associated hospitals which had sophisticated electronic patient data recording, and patient monitoring able to detect and record “nonsustained [at least 6 secs] or sustained ventricular tachycardia or ventricularfibrillation”. Both the numbers of cases and deaths, and the detailed data collection, seem unlikely.

7.Unusually small reported variances in baseline variables, interventions and outcomes between continents(Table S3)

8.Mean daily doses of hydroxychloroquine that are 100 mg higher than FDA recommendations, whereas 66% of the data are from North American hospitals.

9.Implausible ratios of chloroquine to hydroxychloroquine use in some continents

10.The tight 95% confidence intervals reported for the hazard ratios are unlikely. For instance,for the Australiandatathis would need about double the numbers of recorded deathsas were reported in the paper.

[TSA]

He never answers directly about anything. He's the conservative Chumpdumper. As soon as he's painted in a corner he just moves the goalposts to keep from admitting he's wrong.

What specifically am I wrong about Bene?

[ElNono]

There’s literally 120 MDs, researchers, statisticians, epidemiologists & ethicists from 24 countries claiming the data isn’t legit. I’m standing on neither of your choices and defer to people well more qualified than you.

...


Except that none of those people are making the claim YOU are making that the data is not legit. They're asking for clarification on the points you summed up.

Do you agree they never claimed in that letter that neither the study or the data is bunk? Because if you don't even have the decency to admit that, there's not much more to go on.

You can quote on the letter where they unequivocally state that the data and/or study is bunk, and this would be a really easy win for you, but you clearly cannot do that.

So, again, are you standing on that claim based on a gut feeling or just overall butthurtness that it contradicts dear leader?

[TSA]

Except that none of those people are making the claim YOU are making that the data is not legit. They're asking for clarification on the points you summed up.

Do you agree they never claimed in that letter that neither the study or the data is bunk? Because if you don't even have the decency to admit that, there's not much more to go on.

You can quote on the letter where they unequivocally state that the data and/or study is bunk, and this would be a really easy win for you, but you clearly cannot do that.

So, again, are you standing on that claim based on a gut feeling or just overall butthurtness that it contradicts dear leader?

inadequate adjustment for known and measured confounders (disease severity, temporal effects, site effects, dose used).

Data from Australia are not compatible with government reports (too many cases for just five hospitals, more in-hospital deaths than had occurred in the entire country during the study period)

Implausible ratios of chloroquine to hydroxychloroquine use in some continents

[TSA]

strange hill to die on Nono :lol

[ElNono]

inadequate adjustment for known and measured confounders (disease severity, temporal effects, site effects, dose used).

Data from Australia are not compatible with government reports (too many cases for just five hospitals, more in-hospital deaths than had occurred in the entire country during the study period)

Implausible ratios of chloroquine to hydroxychloroquine use in some continents

so they found some discrepancies and are asking for clarification. Says as much in the letter YOU posted (rofl)

But you keep not posting the quote where they call the data bunk. Would just be such an easy W for you, tbh...



strange hill to die on Nono :lol

This is actually the easiest argument I had in months, tbh

I don't get somebody to own themselves posting things that don't say what they claim they say.

I also called it early you were spiking the ball prematurely, and damn, I got that one right too :lol

So, again, are you standing on that claim based on a gut feeling or just overall butthurtness that it contradicts dear leader?

[RandomGuy]

I never claimed any statement in that letter rebuts any claim made in that study. Now run along.

YOu said the study was bunk. You posted a letter that obviously you think debunks it.

So you don't know whey it is bunk, you just gots the feels that it is.

Got it.

[RandomGuy]

That's a lot of yapping to say you're biased and you look for confirmation for your bias through the sites you visit, and have zero fucking clue about real news. You should stop commenting on it like you're some oracle of objectivity.

That is a lot of yapping. Period.

No-take McGee and his perpetual parade of petty personal attacks. You did manage to deflect from thodrens evasions, so that is, for you, a "w" I am sure.

[Spurminator]

strange hill to die on Nono :lol

:lmao This from a pizzagate pusher doing hours of PR for the President's favorite snake oil drug. You've died on more hills by yourself than the early Christians of Rome. All in service to a beta pussy POTUS. What a stupid and pathetic way to live.

[ElNono]

:lmao This from a pizzagate pusher doing hours of PR for the President's favorite snake oil drug. You've died on more hills by yourself than the early Christians of Rome. All in service to a beta pussy POTUS. What a stupid and pathetic way to live.

this nigga also calls me out specifically demanding that I apologize to Darrin (which I would have zero problem doing, and wouldn't be the first time either), and I'm the one dying on the hill over this :lol

[ElNono]

double post, stupid slowvenian servers

[DMC]

https://youtu.be/TYIVspoodUM

Lol dr says half of what is record is the truth about deaths

But this isn't exclusive to COVID. This is true basically across the board because most of the time autopsies are not performed, and a cause of death is presumed. So it's not that it's wrong, exactly.. but that it's not proven. They could say someone died of complications from pneumonia when in reality maybe they died from some other thing, but we all die of myocardial infarction eventually.

[DMC]

That is a lot of yapping. Period.

No-take McGee and his perpetual parade of petty personal attacks. You did manage to deflect from thodrens evasions, so that is, for you, a "w" I am sure.

What happened to McGurk?

[DMC]

inadequate adjustment for known and measured confounders (disease severity, temporal effects, site effects, dose used).

Data from Australia are not compatible with government reports (too many cases for just five hospitals, more in-hospital deaths than had occurred in the entire country during the study period)

Implausible ratios of chloroquine to hydroxychloroquine use in some continents

I have contacts in many hospitals in Australia. I can ask around.

[ElNono]

I have contacts in many hospitals in Australia. I can ask around.

That discrepancy was already explained:


i'd still wait for the paper's authors to come out with either a statement of clarification or revisions, if necessary, than calling the entire study bunk because some of the data used was potentially faulty. there's no way to determine with the information available to us if any necessary revisions would alter the findings/conclusions

The Lancet told Guardian Australia: “We have asked the authors for clarifications, we know that they are investigating urgently, and we await their reply.” The lead author of the study, Dr Mandeep Mehra, said he had contacted Surgisphere, the company that provided the data, to reconcile the discrepancies with “the utmost urgency”. Surgisphere is described as a healthcare data analytics and medical education company.

In a statement, Surgisphere founder Dr Sapan Desai, also an author on the Lancet paper, said a hospital from Asia had accidentally been included in the Australian data.

“We have reviewed our Surgisphere database and discovered that a new hospital that joined the registry on April 1, and self-designated as belonging to the Australasia continental designation,” the spokesman said. “In reviewing the data from each of the hospitals in the registry, we noted that this hospital had a nearly 100% composition of Asian race and a relatively high use of chloroquine compared to non-use in Australia. This hospital should have more appropriately been assigned to the Asian continental designation.”

He said the error did not change the overall study findings. It did mean that the Australian data in the paper would be revised to four hospitals and 63 deaths,.

[tholdren]

good thing about these riots will end the covid thing

[RandomGuy]

Do you think that available hospital space is important to considering how much to attempt to reduce the R0 value? Why or why not?


Sweden didnt lock down...
It didn't matter. The rate of transmission was overstated ....


So a consideration of available hospital space is not important? Just trying to be clear here. Seems like you are saying it is not.


I was perfectly clear. The modeling, the numbers you believed, were inaccruate...


You clearly avoided answering the question, as asked, and answered a question I did not ask.

Dishonest people avoid honest questions.

3rd time
Do you think that available hospital space is important to considering how much to attempt to reduce the R0 value? I will settle for a simple yes or no.


You said Sweden locked down....


Dishonest people avoid honest questions.

4th time [clarifying language added]
Do you think that available hospital space is important to considering how much to attempt to reduce the R0 value for any disease that might require hospitalization for some percentage of those affected with a disease? I will settle for a simple yes or no.


No not in the context of covid...


Dishonest people avoid honest questions.

I removed the question from a specific context so that we can arrive at a potential mutual agreement of principle, on which to base further discussion.

5th time [clarifying language added]
Do you think that available hospital space is important to considering how much to attempt to reduce the R0 value for any disease that might require hospitalization for some percentage of those affected with a disease? I will settle for a simple yes or no


I've already explained to you Mr. Variables that NO it didn't for this virus. proven by events such as furloughs layoffs and no hospitals being whelmed.

If there was a vius that was highly lethal and highly communicable then maybe.

Dishonest people avoid honest questions.

Either it is a factor in decision making or not. If your decision making process is based on science, then the answer is easy.

6th time [clarifying language added]
Do you think that available hospital space is important to considering how much to attempt to reduce the R0 value for any disease that might require hospitalization for some percentage of those affected with a disease? I will settle for a simple yes or no

[RandomGuy]

um we know most survive Nancy 98% around

the issue is if ERs get flooded with sick. the whole medical system could fail resulting in much more > 2% dead

how hard is that to understand? tbqh


ERs get flooded with sick every year.

Get off your YT and Twitter reposting gig and get a job.


:lmao no they dont Nancy

you just showed your ignorance with that statement :lmao

carry on simpleton


You wouldn't know, no one has tweeted it.

https://www.dispatchhealth.com/blog/ers-are-overwhelmed-with-flu-patients-mobile-urgent-care-is-the-solution/

Emergency Department Visits
Data are for the U.S.

Number of visits: 139.0 million
Number of injury-related visits: 40.0 million
Number of visits per 100 persons: 43.3
Number of emergency department visits resulting in hospital admission: 14.5 million
Number of emergency department visits resulting in admission to critical care unit: 2.0 million
Percent of visits with patient seen in fewer than 15 minutes: 40.4%
Percent of visits resulting in hospital admission: 10.4%
Percent of visits resulting in transfer to a different (psychiatric or other) hospital: 2.2%


Do all those ER visits happen at once?


Are you saying all these covid people got into a bus and went there at the same time?

Dishonest people avoid honest questions. That is a strawman lie, an easy demonstration of dishonesty.

Since I can reasonably expect you will not give an honest answer, I will answer for you.

No they do not.

What is the average daily admit to hospitals based on ER visits, per your given stats?

[boutons_deux]

One Of The First California Counties To Reopen Is Closing Again

“We now have a serious problem,”

Lassen County, a county of 30,000 people in the far reaches of Northern California, was one of the first places in the state to reopen in early May.

But this week, it became the first to reverse course because of a resulting coronavirus (https://www.huffpost.com/news/topic/coronavirus) outbreak.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/california-county-reopen-close-again_n_5ed009fcc5b64f10cb09045c?ncid=newsltushpmg news (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/california-county-reopen-close-again_n_5ed009fcc5b64f10cb09045c?ncid=newsltushpmg news)

Having had no cases, so opened up , then got 4 cases that probably infected 4+ others.

[hater]

good thing about these riots will end the covid thing

Yeah the virus will get scared and go away :lmao

[hater]

Is very fucking simple. Put the murderer in jail and the riots will stop

Don't do it and watch it all burn

When the masses have a very clear simple goal is impossible to stop them. This will not end unless the killer is behind bars

[boutons_deux]

double post, stupid slowvenian servers

I don't think Rasho fans are hosting ST anymore

[boutons_deux]

Sonoma county also opened, now closed

Coronavirus cases spiked after these counties reopened. Now, officials are scaling back

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/9c8bc21/2147483647/strip/true/crop/3000x2000+0+0/resize/840x560!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F71%2F31%2Fb46cce9643 d8bcf7effb0e85ac0a%2Fap20098708171855.jpg

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-05-28/coronavirus-cases-spiked-after-these-counties-reopened-now-officials-are-scaling-back?utm_source=sfmc_100035609&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=25331+Today%27s+Headlines+5%2f29%2f20 20&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.latimes.com%2fcaliforni a%2fstory%2f2020-05-28%2fcoronavirus-cases-spiked-after-these-counties-reopened-now-officials-are-scaling-back&utm_id=7561&sfmc_id=665585

[DarrinS]

1266136090806755329

[phxspurfan]

1266136090806755329

The weather is probably working against the virus spreading. Let's all hope it doesn't come back with a vengeance in October

[hater]

The weather is probably working against the virus spreading. Let's all hope it doesn't come back with a vengeance in October

hope doesnt make viruses dissapear

wave 2 will make wave 1 look like a weekend at Bernies

[boutons_deux]

The weather is probably working against the virus spreading. Let's all hope it doesn't come back with a vengeance in October

"major" is the weasel word, red/slave states with R0 > 1

https://rt.live/

[weebo]

1266136090806755329

:lol "no major increase" and TX :lol

[boutons_deux]

testing? red/slave states doing testing?

Trash "logic": no more testing, every time we test, we find more diseased people. stop testing

[FrostKing]

Snacks

[ChumpDumper]

Blacks

[tholdren]

hope doesnt make viruses dissapear

wave 2 will make wave 1 look like a weekend at Bernies

you mean flu season in October?

[TSA]

YOu said the study was bunk. You posted a letter that obviously you think debunks it.

So you don't know whey it is bunk, you just gots the feels that it is.

Got it.

I posted the letter because ElNono asked what was wrong with the study, and as the letter shows there was plenty wrong with the study.

[spurraider21]

1266449709184323584

[TSA]

so they found some discrepancies and are asking for clarification. Says as much in the letter YOU posted (rofl)

But you keep not posting the quote where they call the data bunk. Would just be such an easy W for you, tbh...




This is actually the easiest argument I had in months, tbh

I don't get somebody to own themselves posting things that don't say what they claim they say.

I also called it early you were spiking the ball prematurely, and damn, I got that one right too :lol

So, again, are you standing on that claim based on a gut feeling or just overall butthurtness that it contradicts dear leader?

https://mobile.twitter.com/jwato_watson/status/1264793409618935809

https://mobile.twitter.com/mostafabenh/status/1265472645891579904

https://mobile.twitter.com/StevePhillipsMD/status/1263899565654265857

https://mobile.twitter.com/jwato_watson/status/1265218369965391879

https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1266445918225739776

[Winehole23]

1266449709184323584Willingly ceding US leadership and influence to the EU and China in such an important institution is one thing, sealing the country against the possible benefits of cooperation/research and membership is another.

Looks like pure pique and blame shifting.

[weebo]

Willingly ceding US leadership and influence to the EU and China in such an important institution is one thing, sealing the country against the possible benefits of cooperation/research and membership is another.

Looks like pure pique and blame shifting.

Just another distraction from a distraction. Trump (and the loyalist party) need someone or something to blame d/t his own failures handling the pandemic.

[Winehole23]

Just another distraction from a distraction. Trump (and the loyalist party) need someone or something to blame d/t his own failures handling the pandemic.There's *still* a pandemic that needs to be managed. It's not too late for the US to start taking it seriously as a public health problem.

[ChumpDumper]

Pwning China by giving China everything China wants.

[DarrinS]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1266445918225739776

:tu


https://www.medicineuncensored.com/a-study-out-of-thin-air


Shady AF

[Blake]

https://mobile.twitter.com/jwato_watson/status/1264793409618935809

https://mobile.twitter.com/mostafabenh/status/1265472645891579904

https://mobile.twitter.com/StevePhillipsMD/status/1263899565654265857

https://mobile.twitter.com/jwato_watson/status/1265218369965391879

https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1266445918225739776

Dr Trump said hydroxychloroquine works so it must work. Any study that says otherwise is shady AF

[Blake]

"One farm in Tennessee distributed Covid-19 tests to all of its workers after an employee came down with the virus. It turned out that every single one of its roughly 200 employees had been infected.

In New Jersey, more than 50 workers had the virus at a farm in Gloucester County, adding to nearly 60 who fell ill in neighboring Salem County. Washington state’s Yakima County, an agricultural area that produces apples, cherries, pears and most of the nation’s hops, has the highest per capita infection rate of any county on the West Coast....."

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/every-single-worker-covid-one-100000688.html

[weebo]

There's *still* a pandemic that needs to be managed. It's not too late for the US to start taking it seriously as a public health problem.

That's where the problem lies...Trump and his loyalist don't think its a serious threat. They're pushing to "open" everything cuz muh economy

[ElNono]

https://mobile.twitter.com/jwato_watson/status/1264793409618935809

https://mobile.twitter.com/mostafabenh/status/1265472645891579904

https://mobile.twitter.com/StevePhillipsMD/status/1263899565654265857

https://mobile.twitter.com/jwato_watson/status/1265218369965391879

https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1266445918225739776

:lmao still not any of them call the data or study bunk...

Straight from your Todaro link:
"Any one of the above findings warrants closer inspection of data for a study of this importance and with such global implications on patient care."

Even the guy, as spurraider said, that has specific interests in HCQ working out doesn't make that claim :lol

So, again, are you standing on that claim based on a gut feeling or just overall butthurtness that it contradicts dear leader?

[ElNono]

:tu

https://www.medicineuncensored.com/a-study-out-of-thin-air

Shady AF

Nowhere there says the study is bunk. Merely they found some data discrepancies.

BTW, I'm going to be apologizing to you if the study is retracted, I made that commitment, tbh

[DarrinS]

Nowhere there says the study is bunk. Merely they found some data discrepancies.

BTW, I'm going to be apologizing to you if the study is retracted, I made that commitment, tbh


Not necessary, tbh

[ElNono]

Not necessary, tbh

It's the right thing to do, tbh

[tholdren]

Covid riot silence from baseline bum and ChumpDumper sad.

[boutons_deux]

damn, a fucking Catholic extremist rules one time for sanity, for citizens, not for oligarchy

Roberts Upholds COVID-19 Restrictions on Churches,

Scolds Kavanaugh

Kavanaugh :lol dissent, by contrast,

falsely accused the state of religious discrimination :lol

in an extremely misleading opinion that

omits the most important facts of the case. :lol

Roberts went out of his way to scold Kavanaugh’s dishonest vilification of the state.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/05/supreme-court-coronavirus-california-churches.html (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/05/supreme-court-coronavirus-california-churches.html)

When prick Roberts is the swing vote? America is fucked and unfuckable.

[boutons_deux]

Bad state data hides coronavirus threat as Trump pushes reopening

Federal and state officials across the country have altered or hidden public health data crucial to tracking the coronavirus' spread,

hindering the ability to detect a surge of infections as President Donald Trump pushes the nation to reopen rapidly.

In at least a dozen states, health departments

have inflated testing numbers or

deflated death tallies

by changing criteria for who counts as a coronavirus victim and

what counts as a coronavirus test,

according to reporting from POLITICO, other news outlets and the states' own admissions.

Some states have shifted the metrics for a “safe” reopening;

Arizona sought to clamp down on bad news at one point by simply shuttering its pandemic modeling.

About a third of the states aren’t even reporting hospital admission data — a big red flag for the resurgence of the virus.
The spotty data flow is particularly worrisome to public health officials trying to help Americans make decisions about safely venturing out.

The lack of accurate and consistent Covid-19 data, coupled with the fact that the White House no longer has regular briefings where officials reinforce the need for ongoing social distancing, makes that task even harder.

New examples seem to sprout up daily.

The District of Columbia this week became the latest jurisdiction to endure scrutiny (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/dc-will-likely-reopen-friday-after-city-changes-key-thresholds-for-reopening/2020/05/26/24561b78-9f6b-11ea-b5c9-570a91917d8d_story.html), with the city using a “community spread” metric — excluding nursing homes, correctional facilities and others — as a justification for reopening the area.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/bad-state-data-hides-coronavirus-threat-as-trump-pushes-reopening/ar-BB14GGZj?li=BBnb7Kz

[tholdren]

Bad state data hides coronavirus threat as Trump pushes reopening

Federal and state officials across the country have altered or hidden public health data crucial to tracking the coronavirus' spread,

hindering the ability to detect a surge of infections as President Donald Trump pushes the nation to reopen rapidly.

In at least a dozen states, health departments

have inflated testing numbers or

deflated death tallies

by changing criteria for who counts as a coronavirus victim and

what counts as a coronavirus test,

according to reporting from POLITICO, other news outlets and the states' own admissions.

Some states have shifted the metrics for a “safe” reopening;

Arizona sought to clamp down on bad news at one point by simply shuttering its pandemic modeling.

About a third of the states aren’t even reporting hospital admission data — a big red flag for the resurgence of the virus.
The spotty data flow is particularly worrisome to public health officials trying to help Americans make decisions about safely venturing out.

The lack of accurate and consistent Covid-19 data, coupled with the fact that the White House no longer has regular briefings where officials reinforce the need for ongoing social distancing, makes that task even harder.

New examples seem to sprout up daily.

The District of Columbia this week became the latest jurisdiction to endure scrutiny (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/dc-will-likely-reopen-friday-after-city-changes-key-thresholds-for-reopening/2020/05/26/24561b78-9f6b-11ea-b5c9-570a91917d8d_story.html), with the city using a “community spread” metric — excluding nursing homes, correctional facilities and others — as a justification for reopening the area.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/bad-state-data-hides-coronavirus-threat-as-trump-pushes-reopening/ar-BB14GGZj?li=BBnb7Kz



Nursing home data should be excluded when identifying and tracking a pandemic

[Blake]

Nursing home data should be excluded when identifying and tracking a pandemic

Because nursing home employees don't count

[tholdren]

Because nursing home employees don't count

Not those who live there

[ChumpDumper]

Not those who live thereNursing home residents aren't people?

[tholdren]

Nursing home residents aren't people?

They shouldn't be included to track pandemic i.e. general population.

[ChumpDumper]

They shouldn't be included to track pandemic i.e. general population.Why not?

[tholdren]

Why not?

Because it leads to erroneous data reporting as we are currently experiencing. Not to mention allows concepts like lockdown be made to look like a viable option when in reality it does not prevent death to those most at risk, again as being proven by the data.

[ChumpDumper]

Because it leads to erroneous data reporting as we are currently experiencing.What's erroneous about it? Too many old people?

[tholdren]

What's erroneous about it? Too many old people?
No because then states start playing games with what is reported and how that information hits the public. Kind of like you when you say daily cases.... they can use it to fixate on a Hotspot and only release that data or lag their data and dump in all at once and makes the context of what happens for cases deaths and percentages to be unreliable at best but definitely biased

[ChumpDumper]

No because then states start playing games with what is reported and how that information hits the public.How is counting residents of nursing homes itself playing games?

[tholdren]

How is counting residents of nursing homes itself playing games?
Wow you are slow at this. Because, unfortunately as you would know from your science, that several states have utilized hotspots to test and release at a higher rate of positives

[ChumpDumper]

Wow you are slow at this. Because, unfortunately as you would know from your science, that several states have utilized hotspots to test and release at a higher rate of positivesSo counting residents to nursing homes in itself isn't playing games. Understood.:tu

[tholdren]

So counting residents to nursing homes in itself isn't playing games. Understood.:tu
Yes and no.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes and no.But they don't count regardless.

[tholdren]

But they don't count regardless.

They do count. But as of now those counts for many states have been gamed to increase and prolong poor policy. I would separate those counts and hold as a separate data set to make policy. This way you wouldnt have people confused and assuming lockdowns work since they cannot analyze data.

[ChumpDumper]

They do count.Oh.

[tholdren]

Oh.

You do realize how falsely increasing positive case count would be erroneous, right? Not to mention unethical and not science-based

[ChumpDumper]

You do realize how falsely increasing positive case count would be erroneous, right? Not to mention unethical and not science-basedBut they aren't false cases. If you're upset about timing, OK.

[tholdren]

But they aren't false cases.
Nope. But you do realize how the aforementioned is unethical, unreliable and not scientific, correct?

[tholdren]

But they aren't false cases. If you're upset about timing, OK.
And you just lost

[ChumpDumper]

Nope. But you do realize how the aforementioned is unethical, unreliable and not scientific, correct?I understand you're upset about timing.

[ChumpDumper]

And you just lostNope. I understand you're upset. It's OK.

[tholdren]

I understand you're upset about timing.
And from your comment you've just acknowledged that you dont undrrstand the curve of the virus, nor dsta in general, and it makes it even funnier that you dont care about timing, yet cite DAILY cases?

[ChumpDumper]

And from your comment you've just acknowledged that you dont undrrstand the curve of the virus, nor dsta in general, and it makes it even funnier that you dont care about timing, yet cite DAILY cases?I understand why you're upset about it. That's why I asked you for a trend line. You were scared of that so you changed the subject. That's how I know you lost.

[tholdren]

I understand why you're upset about it. That's why I asked you for a trend line. You were scared of that so you changed the subject. That's how I know you lost.

Lolololololololololololol
Swing and a miss..... lolololololololol

Yet you cite Daily Cases

[ChumpDumper]

Lolololololololololololol
Swing and a miss..... lolololololololol

Yet you cite Daily CasesYet I asked for a trend line. You lost.

[tholdren]

Yet I asked for a trend line. You lost.
Daily cases... doesn't get much better than that.
Who needs accurate data right?

Lolol

You're upset about validity = time lololol

[ChumpDumper]

Daily cases... doesn't get much better than that.
Who needs accurate data right?

Lolol

You're upset about validity = time lolololYou're upset because I asked you for a trend line and that scared you right out of talking about the subject anymore. You lost. lol you

Now try changing the subject again.

[DarrinS]

Most recent projections of IHME models for Texas vs. California

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/texas

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/california


Shows California won't peak until mid-July

[FrostKing]

Most recent projections of IHME models for Texas vs. California

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/texas

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/california


Shows California won't peak until mid-July
Everyone back to work tomorrow. Gyms soon.

Likely was the plan regardless but sped up by protest here in California.

[DarrinS]

If those models turn out to be correct,

CA: 325 deaths per M
TX: 67 deaths per M


The lockdowns in CA were early and strict.

[pgardn]

If those models turn out to be correct,

CA: 325 deaths per M
TX: 67 deaths per M


The lockdowns in CA were early and strict.

Im going to guess and add that early seeding of the virus was widespread in Cali.
Much more international travel from Asia and Europe.
The first cases I heard directly about in Texas were pilots who did international flights.
They both infected every family member. No one really knew what was going on as it was early.

[Winehole23]

DarrinS is the COVID minimizer. Grinding his ideological axe on the wheel of statistics is one of his hallmarks.

Still trying to convince people 100,000 COVID-19 deaths in two months isn't a mass death event.

Smdh

[boutons_deux]

Darrins thinka TODAY's CA vs TX numbers are GAMEOVER, and TX wins.

fucking cretins

[DarrinS]

DarrinS is the COVID minimizer. Grinding his ideological axe on the wheel of statistics is one of his hallmarks.

Still trying to convince people 100,000 COVID-19 deaths in two months isn't a mass death event.

Smdh


There would be far fewer deaths, if we didn't put covid patients in nursing homes. Strange policies by Cuomo and Whitmer.

[DarrinS]

Im going to guess and add that early seeding of the virus was widespread in Cali.
Much more international travel from Asia and Europe.
The first cases I heard directly about in Texas were pilots who did international flights.
They both infected every family member. No one really knew what was going on as it was early.

Probably

[Winehole23]

There would be far fewer deaths, if we didn't put covid patients in nursing homes. Strange policies by Cuomo and Whitmer.Those were strange policies. There's responsibility for this fiasco throughout the political system, but the notion that pandemic response is and should he a state by state affair is off the scale imbecility.

[boutons_deux]

"There's responsibility for this fiasco throughout the political system"

what?